Rules of SM

[Ladysmom]

Originally Posted by CloudClan

What about if we had a list which required two (three?) references from individuals (not same family) on SM who have been members of this forum for say at least 6 (12?) months. Ideally those references should be people who own a puppy from the breeder, but could be someone who has visited their home or has some other credible first hand knowledge.

Perhaps, those references could agree to be contacted when a newbie has questions.

The list could be broken down by regions (maybe even use the AKC region system).

That is a great idea, Carina!

[maltlovereileen]

Originally Posted by CloudClan

What about if we had a list which required two (three?) references from individuals (not same family) on SM who have been members of this forum for say at least 6 (12?) months. Ideally those references should be people who own a puppy from the breeder, but could be someone who has visited their home or has some other credible first hand knowledge.

IMO, only people who did home visits would really be qualified to attest...they would see first hand how the dogs in the breeding program lived/were treated/how many dogs there actually were living on the property/were they living in the home with the person or in another building, etc. Otherwise, it's just a numbers game (ie, the more pups from litters sold to people on SM the more the breeder will get the 'thumbs up' which doesn't necessarily represent anything other than a beautiful dog)? ... ? On 'that other forum' I remember hearing of a very well known breeder who delivered a pup with giardia...sure it was beautiful, but sometimes when things like that happen it seems like maybe the breeding is too fast and furious instead of slower with more methodology. I don't know though, having never bred dogs myself.

(I read on FB, for example, about a breeder whose program many would consider good [good enough that other breeders will exchange breeding stock with them] who actually brokers their puppies. You wouldn't necessarily know this unless you paid a home visit and saw the number of dogs/puppies living at the house/on the property)

[Cosy]

The problem with that is if we (the active SM membership) don't have three people with dogs from a certain breeder that breeder can't be on the list. It's not really a fair way since they may very well be a great breeder.
If someone comes here in search of a pup ( or older malt ) other than rescue, we can direct them to our learning threads, topics and suggest they start with asking some owners (on here) if they like the looks or personality of that dog, questions regarding that person's breeder - and they can also check the AMA list as well. It seems to me, at the very best, all we can do is list breeders who have sold or placed dogs with the SM membership IF they are exhibitor/breeders and IF the owner feels comfortable with their transaction enough to recommend them. It needs to be stated that the list may or may not be complete.

[maltlovereileen]

Originally Posted by Cosy

The problem with that is if we (the active SM membership) don't have three people with dogs from a certain breeder that breeder can't be on the list. It's not really a fair way since they may very well be a great breeder.

Excellent point

[princessre]

Originally Posted by myfairlacy

In my opinion, everything seemed to self-police pretty well. Members would post links to Breeder's available puppy page..every one I saw were from exhibitors/breeders. If they were from a clear-cut backyard breeder, members here would quickly speak up. Like I've said before, people have different opinions of reputable when it comes to some of the smaller details of a breeding program. While XYZ breeder may show in conformation and be fine for one member, I may not like how they conduct something about their breeding program. But that is for me to research and find out for myself. Another member may not like the breeder I have chosen for some reason..and that is fine. Sometimes breeders can be reputable without being the right breeder for myself if that makes sense. But anyway, I did enjoy seeing the threads. However, I do NOT want breeders posting actual FOR SALE threads on here. There is a big difference in my opinion.

[Ladysmom]

Brit and Eileen, you both make excellent points about the difficulty of screening breeders for a list or a puppies available thread.

It's a huge responsibility to recommend a breeder to someone. I learned that the hard way recently. A member on a Yorkie forum wanted to get a Maltese and asked me for breeder recommendations. I sent her a link to a thread from SM with the names of several show breeders in her state. She settled on one from the thread and was just in love with her puppy. Tragically, her puppy died at only 5 months old from a congenital condition (AAI). Her heart was, and is still, broken.

I honestly don't know if I would feel comfortable ever recommending a breeder again unless I knew the breeder personally, had been to her home and done business with her.

[MalteseJane]

Originally Posted by CloudClan

What about if we had a list which required two (three?) references from individuals (not same family) on SM who have been members of this forum for say at least 6 (12?) months. Ideally those references should be people who own a puppy from the breeder, but could be someone who has visited their home or has some other credible first hand knowledge.

Perhaps, those references could agree to be contacted when a newbie has questions.

The list could be broken down by regions (maybe even use the AKC region system).

Carina this is too complicated. It's never going to work.

[KAG]

The shame of all of this is : How many people actually read and research this forum, which is such an invaluable source of information before the old "where can I buy a cute puppy in my state" question?

I'm all for helping people. You all do such a wonderful job educating. Sometimes though, it just seems like so much repetition, and I feel like a lot of members are doing the buyers homework for them. Does that make any sense? All this information should be pinned.

As far as available puppies, perhaps the breeder can make a small donation to SM for the advertising. At the end of a year, SM sends the money to a rescue group.
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

[myfairlacy]

Originally Posted by Ladysmom

Brit and Eileen, you both make excellent points about the difficulty of screening breeders for a list or a puppies available thread.

It's a huge responsibility to recommend a breeder to someone. I learned that the hard way recently. A member on a Yorkie forum wanted to get a Maltese and asked me for breeder recommendations. I sent her a link to a thread from SM with the names of several show breeders in her state. She settled on one from the thread and was just in love with her puppy. Tragically, her puppy died at only 5 months old from a congenital condition (AAI). Her heart was, and is still, broken.

I honestly don't know if I would feel comfortable ever recommending a breeder again unless I knew the breeder personally, had been to her home and done business with her.

It is really hard to recommend breeders to people when you haven't personally delt with the breeder. When I do suggest breeders to people I always tell them that these breeders have a good reputation and appear good to me but to please do their own research and ask a lot of questions since I haven't personally spoken with the breeder. If it is one I have delt with, that's a different story. A lot of breeders can have great websites, say the right things, and show dogs..but that doesn't mean they are actually doing the right things. For example, there are some show breeders on YT that appear to have great reputations on YT, but in real life they aren't so well thought of....

[Starsmom]

Originally Posted by myfairlacy

It is really hard to recommend breeders to people when you haven't personally delt with the breeder. When I do suggest breeders to people I always tell them that these breeders have a good reputation and appear good to me but to please do their own research and ask a lot of questions since I haven't personally spoken with the breeder. If it is one I have delt with, that's a different story. A lot of breeders can have great websites, say the right things, and show dogs..but that doesn't mean they are actually doing the right things. For example, there are some show breeders on YT that appear to have great reputations on YT, but in real life they aren't so well thought of....

I think the waters are getting muddy here. There seems to be two issues being discussed in this thread.
1. Recommending a breeder to someone.
2. Simply posting the availability of a breeders pups

If someone is recommending a breeder they SHOULD have first hand knowledge. However, simply posting available pups I consider as an announcement/news bulletin, and up to the person interested to contact the breeder for purchase.

We (SM members) do a great job of self policing, and I really don't think there is cause for a rule to disallow the posting of adorable pups from active show breeders. This area of SM wasn't broke, so it doesn't have to be "fixed".