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Old 09-10-2009, 10:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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What is the difference as thinking culture is for bacteria and analysis is for ph and function of kidneys etc.

I would like to know also about free catch vs needle in bladder

also want to know about accuracy of free catch for a bladder infection and if better to do inhouse or send out to lab on urine analysis and believe culture has to be done at a lab not in house

wanting to learn more about this and what best approach is and am aware if doing free catch best to do first thing in am as it has sat in bladder all night to see if any issues as same as in humans

What i do for annual and assuming they do analysis is get it off back of wee wee pad in am and take in to office as I never liked the idea of a needle in the bladder as that is not without consequences and know it is the most sterile though. Also learned today from dermatologist best to go with a vet that uses an ultrasound to see if bladder is full and to direct where to put needle in so no problems. Also she said best to take in first thing before they do the morning pee which that may be tough lol as mine run to that wee wee pad first thing lol


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Old 09-11-2009, 09:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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QUOTE (dwerten @ Sep 10 2009, 09:49 PM)
Quote:
What is the difference as thinking culture is for bacteria and analysis is for ph and function of kidneys etc.

I would like to know also about free catch vs needle in bladder

also want to know about accuracy of free catch for a bladder infection and if better to do inhouse or send out to lab on urine analysis and believe culture has to be done at a lab not in house

wanting to learn more about this and what best approach is and am aware if doing free catch best to do first thing in am as it has sat in bladder all night to see if any issues as same as in humans

What I do for annual and assuming they do analysis is get it off back of wee wee pad in am and take in to office as I never liked the idea of a needle in the bladder as that is not without consequences and know it is the most sterile though. Also learned today from dermatologist best to go with a vet that uses an ultrasound to see if bladder is full and to direct where to put needle in so no problems. Also she said best to take in first thing before they do the morning pee which that may be tough lol as mine run to that wee wee pad first thing lol[/B]
Urinalysis usually tests for abt 10 perimeters> blood/Ph/nitrites/leukocytes/uro-bilinogen/protein/specific gravity/ketones/bilirubin/glucose. Any positives on these would usually indicate that further evaluation should be followed-up. ( though some can be 'off' due to meds etc and vets discretion would be the deciding factor if further investigation would be needed). The results are also combined with the color and clarity of the urine in determining cause for concern. (Also our vet 'spins' the urine to detect 'sediment/crystals I believe)
Urine culture usually is done to pinpoint a specific bacteria.... in case of UTI, many bacterias can be involved and getting the specific antibiotic for that specific bacteria is important. Like with humans if UTI is suspected, a broad spectrum will often be started right away as these often 'do the trick' and a culture can take a few days. If by the time the culture results come back it then is determined if indeed the broad spectrum is suitable ( and by this time there is usually improvement) or if another one is needed.
Even when I have had UTI... this is the same protocol> broad spectrum started right away but culture sent out in case a more specific antibiotic is required.

Back after Missy had been dx with bladder cancer my vet told me to get the urinalysis reagent strips to carefully monitor her urine. I still get them and use them from time to time for Naddie and Quincy. I get them from Hocks online pharmacy. Back in Missy's days I took them to vets for comparison to be sure the 'matched in accuracy and they were right ion the mark with the vets.

This is what I use: http://hocks.com/hocks-healthcare/ho...ct/URS-10.html

Though the free catch isn't as accurate as direct from the bladder...in Missy's case the free-catch was the better option . If there wasn't improvement within a couple of days ( not that the UTI was gone... but improvement) and there seemed to be a resistance to antibiotic then the direct from bladder would have been done... but the broad spectrum always took care of things. In our case I could tell within 3 days if any improvement and only once did we have to switch from one broad spectrum to another that immediately started to work.

If using a pee-pad you can turn upside down and collect thay way... again though not sterile can be used to see if further investigation is necessary. I do this when I want to check Quincy since he is 100% pee-pad trained and a very 'private kinda guy' and wouldn't pee with you looking at him if his bladder burst! LOL

Now to my soapbox!... and not intended to scare anyone BUT from experience HAVE to say this!...
If a pooch has recurrent UTI PLEASE! get an ultrasound and rule out anything 'bad'. Missy life was saved because our vet was diligent and when UTI didn't clear after round of antibiotic ( still blood in urine) she advised the closer look and Missy's TCC (transitional cell carcinoma) tumor was discovered! There is NO SYMPTOM of TCC other than the same as UTI! even often there is indeed an infection present and antibiotic 'clears" giving the false security that all is well when all the while the beast is siliently continuing to grow. This is the reason the fatality from this TCC is so high because most cases aren't discovered until it has taken over. I will say this is rare and likely not an issue BUT as with Missy if the pooch falls into that small %-tile the "issue" is HUGE!
Though TCC is still rare.. it is on the rise. The research has indicated that it is caused by insecticides/pesticides/herbicides.
In correspondence with the head of the urology/surgical dept of NCU she said she is instructing students to do the ruling out EARLY when urinary issues crop up. She even requested a photo of Missy and her experience so she could share with the students a 'real-life' situation and the benefits of the early detection. which , of course, I was more than happy to provide! If it helped even one of those students to save one little dog I'd be thrilled!
The normal protocol is to keep trying various antibiotics.... or sometimes crystals/stones are suspected and it uis a try this/try that mentality when what needs to be done is to RULE OUT the 'beast 'first because it is extremely aggressive! and time is of the essence. If all is well then fine .. there's lots of time to try various things.... but not so with TCC.
Again not to scare but to inform. I know the tendency for those having a pooch with UTI and having read this, is to be terrified and that isn't my intent. 99% of the time it will indeed be a 'simple' UTI! Just that there is that possibility of being in the 1%-age and in that case it is critical that it be detected as early as possible.
I can tell you now... if there is any UTI in either of my twirps I will request ultrasound immediately !!!!!!!! I will not do any wait and see. I know it can be expensive but to me it's pay now or maybe 'pay' later.
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
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A regular urinalysis also includes a cytology of the urine sediment. This is where you look for crystals, white blood cells, red blood cells, bacteria, casts, etc.

Doing a cystocentesis is not nearly as bad as it sounds. Most animals don't even notice when we poke them. It is easiest to do with an ultrasound so you can literally see what you are doing.

Voided samples are often contaminated, so they are not as accurate when looking for infection as a cysto sample. Cysto samples can have a bit of blood in them from the poke which is normal.

Some vets do a preliminary culture in house just to see if anything starts to grow as sending cultures out can be cost prohibitive for clients. If something does grow, then the sample is sent to the lab for the bacteria to be identified and antibiotic sensitivity is evaluated.

If you pet has very dilute urine for any reason, a simple urinalysis may not be an accurate picture so culture may be recommended despite a normal-appearing urinalysis.
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Old 09-11-2009, 11:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I also meant to say that I don't believe that further investigation is needed at a first or now and then UTI ( even though due to experience with Missy I would for my two simply because I'm paranoid! )
I do however believe if any UTI doesn't readily respond then yes, I firmly believe a check for TCC should be done and ruled out or confirmed.
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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great information ! and i too believe it is better to be forwarned then for someone not to say anything of their experience and another dog suffer so thank you so much for educating us on your experience as i was not aware of this

QUOTE (Maidto2Maltese @ Sep 11 2009, 10:01 AM)
Quote:
I also meant to say that I don't believe that further investigation is needed at a first or now and then UTI ( even though due to experience with Missy I would for my two simply because I'm paranoid! )
I do however believe if any UTI doesn't readily respond then yes, I firmly believe a check for TCC should be done and ruled out or confirmed.[/B]
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:21 PM   #6 (permalink)
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ok thanks as derm said they do it as dd is going in for skin culture and they do the cysto only as they believe it is most accurate or i have to go to vet and vet does inhouse without cysto if i want which is what was used last time she had it but that was a long time ago

The dermatologist said they can do a urinalysis culture IF they call it so they send in for urinalysis and if it needs to be done they do the culture as well at lab to save cost

In 5 years i have only had to deal with one uti thank goodness and clavamox was used and it was gone but that was 4 years ago so wanted to learn more since dd had the pee episode as she has never done it again and does not really seem to show any signs of uti like she did 4 years ago.


QUOTE (JMM @ Sep 11 2009, 09:10 AM)
Quote:
A regular urinalysis also includes a cytology of the urine sediment. This is where you look for crystals, white blood cells, red blood cells, bacteria, casts, etc.

Doing a cystocentesis is not nearly as bad as it sounds. Most animals don't even notice when we poke them. It is easiest to do with an ultrasound so you can literally see what you are doing.

Voided samples are often contaminated, so they are not as accurate when looking for infection as a cysto sample. Cysto samples can have a bit of blood in them from the poke which is normal.

Some vets do a preliminary culture in house just to see if anything starts to grow as sending cultures out can be cost prohibitive for clients. If something does grow, then the sample is sent to the lab for the bacteria to be identified and antibiotic sensitivity is evaluated.

If you pet has very dilute urine for any reason, a simple urinalysis may not be an accurate picture so culture may be recommended despite a normal-appearing urinalysis.[/B]
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