lineage - Page 2 - Maltese Dogs Forum : Spoiled Maltese Forums

**michellerobison** · 07-22-2010, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bellaratamaltese

I'll be honest and say this looks like a byb pedigree, which probably explains why the same dogs were used. It probably isn't for improving the breed, they are used because they are convenient.

It shouldn't affect too much for her being a show dog, since if you bred her after she is finished, you wouldn't be breeding into those same lines, hopefully. You'd be doing an out-cross, most likely.

i personally wouldn't ever feel comfortable breeding father to daughter but i know experienced show breeders know their lines well enough where they do. But they are working with top maltese in hopes of producing more top winning maltese.

Maybe I'm naieve here,since I don't know anything about breeding but father to daughter? That creeps me out. Is inbreeding standard practice?

**bellaratamaltese** · 07-22-2010, 02:46 AM

CASPER'S MY MILLENNIUM MAN is not a conformation champion and according to akc, does not have any points towards his championship. He was born in 1999.

I bet your oldest daughter and my daughter would get along well! She loooves watching dog shows on tv. Can you find out about conformation classes in your area? That is so great your daughters saved up enough!

**Tina** · 07-22-2010, 03:39 AM

The names on this pedigree sound real familiar. Barbarella is Barbara Roark from Oklahoma.
Lilly is 25% line bred. Yes, breeding father to daughter is done more frequent than you'd think. Alot of people do 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister. Too close for me.

**lilygirl** · 07-22-2010, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bellaratamaltese

CASPER'S MY MILLENNIUM MAN is not a conformation champion and according to akc, does not have any points towards his championship. He was born in 1999.

I bet your oldest daughter and my daughter would get along well! She loooves watching dog shows on tv. Can you find out about conformation classes in your area? That is so great your daughters saved up enough!

I found the search at 2 this morning. So now I am trying to find the origional owner/breeder. I would like to know how he is a "champion"

**lilygirl** · 07-22-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tina

The names on this pedigree sound real familiar. Barbarella is Barbara Roark from Oklahoma.
Lilly is 25% line bred. Yes, breeding father to daughter is done more frequent than you'd think. Alot of people do 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister. Too close for me.

Thanks! I have been looking.

**CloudClan** · 07-22-2010, 01:21 PM

A pedigree will not tell you if a dog should be shown. Line breeding and in this case in-breeding is used by both BYBs and some of the most famous breeders out there. In-breeding means anything where a father-daughter, mother-son, or sibling and half-sibling breeding occurs. Line-breeding is a term used for anything looser than that. Stacy's upcoming litter would be considered line-breeding, but not in-breeding.

One of my own former rescue dogs came out of a BYB and was in-bred including a father daughter breeding:
WebGeneal 4.7.0 (2004.05.01)

My champion boy is considered an outcross, but one of his great-grandmothers was inbred 3x over (father to daughter, father to granddaughter, father to great granddaughter):
WebGeneal 4.7.0 (2004.05.01)

I have seen one well-known breeder do a breeding that comes up with an even higher COI (co-efficient of inbreeding: 45%) than that one:
WebGeneal 4.7.0 (2004.05.01)

So as you see, inbreeding is not exclusive to BYBs. But it also does not tell you much about the dog.

I think it is great that you are asking about the pedigrees. Very few people seem look closely enough at them to see this sort of pattern.

**Ladysmom** · 07-22-2010, 01:31 PM

If you are interested in learning more about Maltese and possibly showing, I'd suggest you go to some shows in your area. It might be a fun mother/daughter outing since your daughter is also interested.

Infodog has a calendar with all the shows by state. Look for "AB" (all breed) shows.

InfoDog AKC Dog Show Information - Search by State

**lilygirl** · 07-22-2010, 04:04 PM

Thanks everyone! I am trying to gather as much info as possible so we can make a good decision on how to proceed. I have to take pics of her paw pads and get yall oppinion on them. I am sure ieven if Lily wont qualify as show quality we will be attending shows. Kyra is very determined in this and is already saving for a new show pup.

**Tina** · 07-22-2010, 06:52 PM

Your lily will be a great start for junior showman. She will be great for you to learn how to grow coat. I would be willing to let you have a puppy for junior handling later. Post pictures of her. Paws sometimes stay pink for awhile and then slowly fill in. The important thing is to have fun.

**Tina** · 07-22-2010, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilygirl

Thanks! I have been looking.

Can you post your pedigree?

07-22-2010, 02:46 AM	#12 (permalink)
bellaratamaltese Maltese Guru Name: Stacy Dog's Name: Lucy, Lois, Caira, Andrew and Emma Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central Valley, California Posts: 11,425	CASPER'S MY MILLENNIUM MAN is not a conformation champion and according to akc, does not have any points towards his championship. He was born in 1999. I bet your oldest daughter and my daughter would get along well! She loooves watching dog shows on tv. Can you find out about conformation classes in your area? That is so great your daughters saved up enough! __________________

07-22-2010, 03:39 AM	#13 (permalink)
Tina Maltese Guru Name: TINA Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Burlingame, Kansas Posts: 4,229	The names on this pedigree sound real familiar. Barbarella is Barbara Roark from Oklahoma. Lilly is 25% line bred. Yes, breeding father to daughter is done more frequent than you'd think. Alot of people do 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister. Too close for me. __________________ Tina It's Magic Maltese SHOW BREEDER Come enjoy the MAGIC of Maltese ADAM MAGIC'S BELIEVE IN SOMETHING BETTER "I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, or in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson

07-22-2010, 01:21 PM	#16 (permalink)
CloudClan Maltese Guru Name: Carina Dog's Name: Cadeau, Cadie, Cacia, Cherry B & Cherish (Cloud, Clancy, Clouseau, Cameo & Calypso @ bridge) Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,439	A pedigree will not tell you if a dog should be shown. Line breeding and in this case in-breeding is used by both BYBs and some of the most famous breeders out there. In-breeding means anything where a father-daughter, mother-son, or sibling and half-sibling breeding occurs. Line-breeding is a term used for anything looser than that. Stacy's upcoming litter would be considered line-breeding, but not in-breeding. One of my own former rescue dogs came out of a BYB and was in-bred including a father daughter breeding: WebGeneal 4.7.0 (2004.05.01) My champion boy is considered an outcross, but one of his great-grandmothers was inbred 3x over (father to daughter, father to granddaughter, father to great granddaughter): WebGeneal 4.7.0 (2004.05.01) I have seen one well-known breeder do a breeding that comes up with an even higher COI (co-efficient of inbreeding: 45%) than that one: WebGeneal 4.7.0 (2004.05.01) So as you see, inbreeding is not exclusive to BYBs. But it also does not tell you much about the dog. I think it is great that you are asking about the pedigrees. Very few people seem look closely enough at them to see this sort of pattern. __________________ *~ Carina & the CloudClan ~* Last edited by CloudClan; 07-22-2010 at 01:24 PM.

07-22-2010, 01:31 PM	#17 (permalink)
Ladysmom Maltese Guru Name: Marj Dog's Name: Bailey and Lady at the Bridge Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 15,079	If you are interested in learning more about Maltese and possibly showing, I'd suggest you go to some shows in your area. It might be a fun mother/daughter outing since your daughter is also interested. Infodog has a calendar with all the shows by state. Look for "AB" (all breed) shows. InfoDog AKC Dog Show Information - Search by State __________________ http://www.myladysdogbows.com/ http://www.facebook.com/pages/MLadys...s/182366213341

07-22-2010, 06:52 PM	#19 (permalink)
Tina Maltese Guru Name: TINA Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Burlingame, Kansas Posts: 4,229	Your lily will be a great start for junior showman. She will be great for you to learn how to grow coat. I would be willing to let you have a puppy for junior handling later. Post pictures of her. Paws sometimes stay pink for awhile and then slowly fill in. The important thing is to have fun. __________________ Tina It's Magic Maltese SHOW BREEDER Come enjoy the MAGIC of Maltese ADAM MAGIC'S BELIEVE IN SOMETHING BETTER "I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, or in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson

07-22-2010, 04:04 PM	#18 (permalink)
lilygirl Member Name: Elisabeth Dog's Name: Princess Lily Fluffy Bum "Lily" and Finnegan "Finn" the Fluff Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: MS Posts: 172	Thanks everyone! I am trying to gather as much info as possible so we can make a good decision on how to proceed. I have to take pics of her paw pads and get yall oppinion on them. I am sure ieven if Lily wont qualify as show quality we will be attending shows. Kyra is very determined in this and is already saving for a new show pup.

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