lineage - Maltese Dogs Forum : Spoiled Maltese Forums

**lilygirl** · 07-22-2010, 01:42 AM

I have a question about lineage in my fluff. I am very concerned about the frequency lily's grandfather shows up in her pedigree.

Her dad is BENJI SCOTT
his parents CASPERS MY MILLENNIUM MAN and PRICESSA LACE SIMS
Caspers parent DDR RUFFLES WITHOUT RIDGES and DRR CRYSTAL CLEAR PERSUASION
Priscella's parents CASPERS MY MILLENNIUM MAN and MS MILLENNIUM CHANTILLY LACE

her mom is ANGEL LACE III
her parents CASPER'S MY MILLENNIUM MAN and MS MILLENNIUM CHANTILLY LACE
caspers parents (listed above)
ms millennium chantilly lace's parents BARBELLA'S PIN UP BOY AND BARBELLA'S HEAVENLY LOVE

So her grandfather is on both sides on the family as a grand father and on the fathers side of the family as a great grandfather. Soooo, it looks like the only "new" blood in her family is her grandmother's(who is also her great grandmother on the other side) parents. This is just way to close for my comfort. Should a father be breed with his daughter?
How will this effect the chances of Lily being a possible show dog?

**bellaratamaltese** · 07-22-2010, 01:51 AM

wow that's pretty tight. It's a tight line breeding although I'm not familiar with these dogs. Is she akc?

**lilygirl** · 07-22-2010, 01:54 AM

yes, which is why I was so shocked. none of our other AKC (american kennel club) dogs have had such a frequent sire/dam pop up

**Cosy** · 07-22-2010, 02:06 AM

I've seen tighter. Having the same grandfather on both sides isn't all that unusual. What's important is are these dogs healthy and meet the standard. How old is Lily?

**bellaratamaltese** · 07-22-2010, 02:07 AM

I'll be honest and say this looks like a byb pedigree, which probably explains why the same dogs were used. It probably isn't for improving the breed, they are used because they are convenient.

It shouldn't affect too much for her being a show dog, since if you bred her after she is finished, you wouldn't be breeding into those same lines, hopefully. You'd be doing an out-cross, most likely.

i personally wouldn't ever feel comfortable breeding father to daughter but i know experienced show breeders know their lines well enough where they do. But they are working with top maltese in hopes of producing more top winning maltese.

**bellaratamaltese** · 07-22-2010, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bellaratamaltese

wow that's pretty tight. It's a tight line breeding although I'm not familiar with these dogs. Is she akc?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosy

I've seen tighter. Having the same grandfather on both sides isn't all that unusual. What's important is are these dogs healthy and meet the standard. How old is Lily?

That's a very true.

I have a litter due next month that is tighter than I've bred before, but I hope to get some nice pups! The grandfathers are full brothers
WebGeneal 4.7.0 (2004.05.01)

**lilygirl** · 07-22-2010, 02:12 AM

Lily will be 10 wks on friday. The documentaion says he is a championship. But my understanding is he would have won just 1 event and it was able to be posted. I have had a hard time getting further info from the person we bought her from. The breeder was very ill when we purchased her and is now in the hospital. i dont want to be a pest so I am trying to find out on my own.

I guess it is good to know that linebreeding is out there. I just dont really like it so frequently in my pup.

**lilygirl** · 07-22-2010, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bellaratamaltese

I'll be honest and say this looks like a byb pedigree, which probably explains why the same dogs were used. It probably isn't for improving the breed, they are used because they are convenient.

It shouldn't affect too much for her being a show dog, since if you bred her after she is finished, you wouldn't be breeding into those same lines, hopefully. You'd be doing an out-cross, most likely.

i personally wouldn't ever feel comfortable breeding father to daughter but i know experienced show breeders know their lines well enough where they do. But they are working with top maltese in hopes of producing more top winning maltese.

We have no plans to breed her but if for some reason we did it would most deff be with new blood.

**bellaratamaltese** · 07-22-2010, 02:22 AM

Who was supposed to be a champion?

In order for them to be a champion, they have to win more than just one event.

Do you have the AKC papers for her so you can register her? That's too bad that her breeder is so sick. Did you buy her for maybe show or did it jsut interest you after you bought her? (i know that one well!)

At 10 weeks, it's too early to really determine if she is show quality. Usually at 8 weeks you can get an idea but 6 mos is the minimum for truly evaluating them for show.

I would see if you can find a show breeder that is close to you and maybe arrange to meet up with them. Lily is too young to be taken on any show grounds. your daughter would have to wait until Lily is 6 mos old to show her so both of them have a few months to wait and practice!

At the 2011 Maltese Nationals in Texas this april, they are having another juniors seminar which would be very helpful for your daughter to go to. You should think about going! It's so much fun even if you aren't going to show your dog.

**lilygirl** · 07-22-2010, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bellaratamaltese

Who was supposed to be a champion?

In order for them to be a champion, they have to win more than just one event.

Do you have the AKC papers for her so you can register her? That's too bad that her breeder is so sick. Did you buy her for maybe show or did it jsut interest you after you bought her? (i know that one well!)

At 10 weeks, it's too early to really determine if she is show quality. Usually at 8 weeks you can get an idea but 6 mos is the minimum for truly evaluating them for show.

I would see if you can find a show breeder that is close to you and maybe arrange to meet up with them. Lily is too young to be taken on any show grounds. your daughter would have to wait until Lily is 6 mos old to show her so both of them have a few months to wait and practice!

At the 2011 Maltese Nationals in Texas this april, they are having another juniors seminar which would be very helpful for your daughter to go to. You should think about going! It's so much fun even if you aren't going to show your dog.

Casper is a champion. The one who is in her line so much. We have sent in her papers already and recieved everything back. We actually bought her just for a pet. My children have wanted a maltese for a very long time. I made then save the money for her. NEVER figured they would get enough together to have a maltese. My oldest loves dog shows and since about day 2 is begging to show her. There is a canine education match happening in November in LA. She wants to go so bad. Lily will be 6 months then so maybe it will work out for her. Kyra works with her everyday. She responds to sit, stay, heel, trot (I thought this one was funny), and speak. She is working on roll over.

07-22-2010, 01:42 AM	#1 (permalink)
lilygirl Member Name: Elisabeth Dog's Name: Princess Lily Fluffy Bum "Lily" and Finnegan "Finn" the Fluff Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: MS Posts: 172	lineage I have a question about lineage in my fluff. I am very concerned about the frequency lily's grandfather shows up in her pedigree. Her dad is BENJI SCOTT his parents CASPERS MY MILLENNIUM MAN and PRICESSA LACE SIMS Caspers parent DDR RUFFLES WITHOUT RIDGES and DRR CRYSTAL CLEAR PERSUASION Priscella's parents CASPERS MY MILLENNIUM MAN and MS MILLENNIUM CHANTILLY LACE her mom is ANGEL LACE III her parents CASPER'S MY MILLENNIUM MAN and MS MILLENNIUM CHANTILLY LACE caspers parents (listed above) ms millennium chantilly lace's parents BARBELLA'S PIN UP BOY AND BARBELLA'S HEAVENLY LOVE So her grandfather is on both sides on the family as a grand father and on the fathers side of the family as a great grandfather. Soooo, it looks like the only "new" blood in her family is her grandmother's(who is also her great grandmother on the other side) parents. This is just way to close for my comfort. Should a father be breed with his daughter? How will this effect the chances of Lily being a possible show dog? Last edited by lilygirl; 07-22-2010 at 01:51 AM. Reason: FINISHING

07-22-2010, 01:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
bellaratamaltese Maltese Guru Name: Stacy Dog's Name: Lucy, Lois, Caira, Andrew and Emma Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central Valley, California Posts: 11,425	wow that's pretty tight. It's a tight line breeding although I'm not familiar with these dogs. Is she akc? __________________

07-22-2010, 02:06 AM	#4 (permalink)
Cosy Maltese Guru Name: Brit Dog's Name: Cosy from Bonnie's Angel Maltese Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I live in Cowboy country :) Posts: 13,390	I've seen tighter. Having the same grandfather on both sides isn't all that unusual. What's important is are these dogs healthy and meet the standard. How old is Lily? __________________ Please buy from reputable exhibitor breeders or Rescue.

07-22-2010, 02:07 AM	#5 (permalink)
bellaratamaltese Maltese Guru Name: Stacy Dog's Name: Lucy, Lois, Caira, Andrew and Emma Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central Valley, California Posts: 11,425	I'll be honest and say this looks like a byb pedigree, which probably explains why the same dogs were used. It probably isn't for improving the breed, they are used because they are convenient. It shouldn't affect too much for her being a show dog, since if you bred her after she is finished, you wouldn't be breeding into those same lines, hopefully. You'd be doing an out-cross, most likely. i personally wouldn't ever feel comfortable breeding father to daughter but i know experienced show breeders know their lines well enough where they do. But they are working with top maltese in hopes of producing more top winning maltese. __________________

07-22-2010, 02:22 AM	#9 (permalink)
bellaratamaltese Maltese Guru Name: Stacy Dog's Name: Lucy, Lois, Caira, Andrew and Emma Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central Valley, California Posts: 11,425	Who was supposed to be a champion? In order for them to be a champion, they have to win more than just one event. Do you have the AKC papers for her so you can register her? That's too bad that her breeder is so sick. Did you buy her for maybe show or did it jsut interest you after you bought her? (i know that one well!) At 10 weeks, it's too early to really determine if she is show quality. Usually at 8 weeks you can get an idea but 6 mos is the minimum for truly evaluating them for show. I would see if you can find a show breeder that is close to you and maybe arrange to meet up with them. Lily is too young to be taken on any show grounds. your daughter would have to wait until Lily is 6 mos old to show her so both of them have a few months to wait and practice! At the 2011 Maltese Nationals in Texas this april, they are having another juniors seminar which would be very helpful for your daughter to go to. You should think about going! It's so much fun even if you aren't going to show your dog. __________________

07-22-2010, 01:54 AM	#3 (permalink)
lilygirl Member Name: Elisabeth Dog's Name: Princess Lily Fluffy Bum "Lily" and Finnegan "Finn" the Fluff Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: MS Posts: 172	yes, which is why I was so shocked. none of our other AKC (american kennel club) dogs have had such a frequent sire/dam pop up

07-22-2010, 02:12 AM	#7 (permalink)
lilygirl Member Name: Elisabeth Dog's Name: Princess Lily Fluffy Bum "Lily" and Finnegan "Finn" the Fluff Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: MS Posts: 172	Lily will be 10 wks on friday. The documentaion says he is a championship. But my understanding is he would have won just 1 event and it was able to be posted. I have had a hard time getting further info from the person we bought her from. The breeder was very ill when we purchased her and is now in the hospital. i dont want to be a pest so I am trying to find out on my own. I guess it is good to know that linebreeding is out there. I just dont really like it so frequently in my pup.

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