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Old 11-29-2012, 03:42 PM   #21 (permalink)
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She could be barking at them to get their attention to come play with her. I sometimes think Leila believes that she's supposed to be the center of attention and if she doesn't get it, she barks at the person/animal she wants attention from. So, that's why I'm trying the advise our trainer gave...and others I've read on sites I've searched about barking. When Leila is in her pack n play in the den and is barking because she's wanting out or any other time she barks when it's not wanted by me, I completely ignore her. Then, when she gets quiet, I give her a lot of attention and tell her "good girl quiet" in a happy voice. You've gotta give the positive reinforcement when she's being good! Cici also could think she's supposed to be the center of attention since she has someone with her all the time. Maybe she needs to start being left by herself. You could start with short amounts of time and gradually add time to that. She needs to know how to entertain and comfort herself.

Last summer, I had had enough of the neighbor's dogs constantly barking at us whenever we went out to our pool, deck, or anywhere in our backyard. We've spent a lot of money to make our backyard an enjoyable place to be and I got to where I didn't even want to go out there because of those dogs. So, I searched the internet for solutions and ended up going to PetSmart for a Sonic Egg. That thing worked!! It worked quicker for their big dog - within minutes - but took a bit longer for their Chihuahua. It even worked for our Lab. Now whenever they even see the egg and even when it's turned off, they stop barking.

As for PetSmart, I shop there frequently. Leila has graduated from the puppy classes and will start the intermediate classes this Sunday. Maybe we got lucky. Our trainer seems to be very knowledgeable about dogs and how to train them. Unfortunately for us, he may not be there in about 6 months because he's trying to get something started where he can train service dogs. When I took Leila to the orientation class the day before her puppy classes started, she was the only one who showed up and he almost instantly had taught her to sit and to take a bow. I've never had any of their employees try to talk me into buying anything from there. Actually, I've had two different occasions where they actually talked me out of buying something. One time, instead of buying nail clippers from there, they suggested just using regular small nail clippers for humans. Another time, instead of buying the bitter spray, they suggested mixing cheyenne pepper with Vaseline and put just a small dab where she's gnawing. I had a coupon for a free puppy bath and had taken Leila a few weeks ago. She was right at 4 months old and just a few days shy of getting her rabies vaccination. When I got there, the girl told me they couldn't do it because she hadn't had her rabies vaccine. I complained that they didn't tell me that when I made the appointment and would have understood if they had told me. So, the manager gave me a free full spa treatment thing (I can't remember the real name of what the package was called). So, I will continue to go to my PetSmart. There's not many places around here you can take a dog.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:52 PM   #22 (permalink)
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She does bark for attention, and I also ignored her because that's also what her trainer from petsmart advised, that worked really well I completely ignore her and she doesn't bark at me not even when I'm eating and don't give her any, she just ignores me too. But when she barks at people and dogs its a different kind of bark, it's more consecutive, with more energy, and sometimes sounds kind of scary like she wants to attack, but she never does.

Glad to hear Leila is doing so well though and your petsmart sounds great! Cicis trainer from petsmart seemed really nice, she even gave us a $20 coupon off the class and gave classes more weeks than what we signed up for. But I guess she was not very experienced since she was young, I think she was still learning and probably does well with most dogs.

I've taught Cici so many tricks and she learns really quick, she knows "touch" and then I say wall or door, or the name of someone (so far she knows daddy and mommy) and she touches with her nose or paw, she knows clap and a few others, so I gave up on taking her to classes for tricks because I can do that myself, but just barking is where I really need help. But I've been let down so far by the trainers :/.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
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My first Maltese was a barker. I went to a training class with him in hopes that he will get accustomed to more people. Did not work. Tried the spray bottle, penny can, did not work. When friends came over he would bark for a few minutes and then settle down. With people coming to the house to do some work, it just was easier to just remove him from the situation.
I was hoping that my second Maltese (Charlie) would be different. But NO. In some ways he was even worse. He barked at any noise he did not know. He barked at every body he did not know. Again I tried the spray bottle, penny can, yelling at him. Nothing worked. The I found the PET CORRECTOR. I honestly can say that for us it worked wonders. No more barking, no more nipping at neighbors who come over. If he gets too excited and goes crazy, I just have to show him the can and he quiets down. Or I just have to say "quiet". My husband took the can with him on walks and used it when Charlie started barking at other people or dogs and it stopped him right away. All I can say is that the Pet corrector helped us like nothing else and is a lot cheaper than all the training course.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MalteseJane View Post
My first Maltese was a barker. I went to a training class with him in hopes that he will get accustomed to more people. Did not work. Tried the spray bottle, penny can, did not work. When friends came over he would bark for a few minutes and then settle down. With people coming to the house to do some work, it just was easier to just remove him from the situation.
I was hoping that my second Maltese (Charlie) would be different. But NO. In some ways he was even worse. He barked at any noise he did not know. He barked at every body he did not know. Again I tried the spray bottle, penny can, yelling at him. Nothing worked. The I found the PET CORRECTOR. I honestly can say that for us it worked wonders. No more barking, no more nipping at neighbors who come over. If he gets too excited and goes crazy, I just have to show him the can and he quiets down. Or I just have to say "quiet". My husband took the can with him on walks and used it when Charlie started barking at other people or dogs and it stopped him right away. All I can say is that the Pet corrector helped us like nothing else and is a lot cheaper than all the training course.
I don't know if I didn't use it right, but I also purchased the Pet Corrector from hearing a lot of good things about it. It worked the first time because it really got her attention, and I rewarded her for being quiet, I thought it was a miracle. But the next day when going to the park I tried it while the park ranger was walking by us about 15 feet away, and it did not work at all, she didn't care for the loud noise, she didn't even look at me for a second she was too busy barking her little head off :\. I still have a little bit left, I will have to give it one last shot.

How did you use yours? Is it spray first and then say quiet and treat? Because that's what I did, but my sister was saying maybe I should say quiet first.. Don't know if it makes a difference.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:50 PM   #25 (permalink)
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My dog manolo was a barking alot like that. My dog would pull like crazy while walking and non stop barking. I sent him a boarding training program, which prepared him for real world training. It really helped him no more barking at everything it's been over a year now since the training.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:02 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Have you tried teaching Cici "Speak" and "hush"?

It might just do the trick.....

Be religious about treating her for it and maybe it will be like "come" for us... mine know whenever they come they get a treat. So even if they are running full sprint they will stop and turn if I call them.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:23 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BellaNotte View Post
I haven't been very active in this forum for a while because I've been having a constant battle with Cici's behavior, and I really need to advice.

She just finished 6 weeks of private training at Petsmart JUST or her barking, and it has not gotten any better, I'm almost to a breaking point because it's a lot of stress dealing with this myself and having people on the street be rude.

She barks like crazy at dogs and people. She barks in an agressive manner, like if she wants to eat them whole, but of they get near her or she goes near them, she instantly starts wiggling and licking them (if it's a human) and wants to play. Wants to play with dogs too if she gets to smell them. It's like she has a double personality.

At petsmart she made a little progress but ONLY inside the store. By the last week she would go in the store (without many people) but she would be crying the whole time until we got to the back of the store where there's no people. But as soon as someone got close she would lunge and bark her head off. Before beginning the class I showed them her problem and asked if the class would really help her to stop, and they said yes. But that's not what happened. They used the desensitizing method, I thought it was great but it seems to not work with her.

Inside the house her barking is controlled when she hears noises because I am able to tell her to be quiet and reward her. But outside (or when we have company over), she closes out the whole world except what she's barking at. She won't look or listen to me, and she doesn't care about any type of treats/food even the kind she would usually go crazy for. Or if I do get her to eat it, she's eating it with so much tension and energy that my fingers hurt, she just gets out of threshold.

She has never bitten anyone or any dog.

I don't understand how this happened. When she was a puppy she was always meeting people, and she was also in puppy school, she always did so great.

My theory is that she was scared by dogs and it might have caused this behavior. The last week of puppy school a Rottweiler puppy wanted to play with her but she was scared to death (her tail was down and she was running away) the teacher told me to leave her because it was play time, well he pawed her and she yelped and ran to me and she was shaking. Weeks later one day I was with her on out front yard, she was on leash and taking a potty break, then out of nowhere an adult rottweiler form my neighbors home comes (off leash unsupervised) and starts chasing Cici, but he wasn't growling or barking, just trying to sort of stomp on her like a mouse. I was so scared and grabbed her as fast as I could, she was scared too.

Since then it has just kept escalating.

I'm with her 5 days a week the whole day, the other two days just for 4 hours because I have classes. So we get to train a lot, and I have been working on desensitizing for three months now or more. I haven't seen noticeable results, it's still very stressing.

Sometimes I need to go to the local pet store to get her food or potty pads and I have to take her because I don't have anyone to watch her, and now I dont feel very welcomed to the store. It's understandable they don't like her barking, but it still makes me feel bad. She always wants to get petted so she used to go in, get petted and be calm. But now she goes in and doesn't get petted then she barks aggressively and it's downhill from there. I always give her treats while going in, but she just doesn't care about me or the treats when we go in.

My BF is upset because we've already spent $300 just in training and we've made no progress, we kind of feel "ripped off" because they should have told us truthfully theyre not capable of helping.

At this point we can't afford anymore classes for training.

I need advice! What other methods I should try.. Is it just because she's a puppy and can't control her energy yet? Should I not take her out anymore just so there's no barking and she doesn't make a habit out of it?

SORRY for such a long post!


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I think the Rottie incidents may well be what caused this. THAT WAS HORRIFIC Advice to let her be terrified by the Rottie in your class. Once your instructor saw her cowering, it was NOT a good idea to let it continue. Your dog is too small and is rightly afraid of playing with a dog with the size and power of a Rottie. So many people, including trainers are ignorant of what is acceptable. But this is important, when you are desensitizing dogs you want the exposure to be positive. Classical conditioning, a stimuli is presented a good thing happens and the dog is happy. The dog learns to associate that stimuli with positive things. The inverse would also be true of course. A stimuli is presented (the Rottie) a negative thing happens (being chased and stomped on) the dog is frightened. Now as soon as the stimuli is presented, the dog is automatically frightened. This should be canine learning theory 101 going back to Pavlov's dogs, but so many people assume, that just exposure will desensitize and that is simply not the case.

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Originally Posted by mysugarbears View Post
Here are some threads that may help until you can find a trainer to help.

What is a Reactive Dog?

Cadeau's Reactive Rover Camp
Thanks you so much for posting these links. I went hunting for them and saw that you had already found them.

OP, please read through these. I really understand your frustration and I hope my experiences can help you understand your girl better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaNotte View Post
I am guilty about petsmart because I had done research about their training on forums online, and several people were opposed to them, but there was one girl that since I got Cici she was already very kind and she seemed to me like she knew a lot. She never tried to sell me the expensive products she just recommended what was convenient. Petsmart was my last choice though. I has first taken her to a place that was supposed to be the best in the area, but the trainer never really helped with Cici's barking, she always just ignored us or had her assistants take her outside, so she would miss part of the class.

I did a lot of research and looking around. The only other trainer in my area is know for using shock collars, so I didn't even consider that place. The only places left were petco and petsmart. But at petco when I went to speak with the trainer, her method was pulling Cici really hard by the leash, that's why I opted for petsmart having no other option.


I have to do this myself now because at the moment there really are no other trainers besides the ones I mentioned! And everyone I ask recommends the one I took her to first, but I can't stand going back there knowing all the things that happened (there were favorites in the class, and others were ignored).



Does anyone think using the water bottle outside of the home would work? Or is that too mean? Is it better than a cintorella collar? I really don't know what's good or bad anymore almost. I thought desensitizing positively was the way to go, but it's not working.


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I think aversion techniques will only worsen this situation. So no I would not do the water bottle or the citronella collar.

I would search the APDT site for some trainers. Dog Trainer Search I just did a quick look based on your location and came up with some for you:

APDT Member Trainers:

Behavioral Consultant
Barbara Blanke, PhD San Luis Obispo, CA 93405

Thousand Hills Pet Resort
Nicole Hern, MS San Luis Obispo, CA 93403


APDT trainers use positive methods, but may or may not have a strong background in working with cases like yours. Make sure they have familiarity with Reactive dogs.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:18 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Grace'sMom View Post
Have you tried teaching Cici "Speak" and "hush"?

It might just do the trick.....

Be religious about treating her for it and maybe it will be like "come" for us... mine know whenever they come they get a treat. So even if they are running full sprint they will stop and turn if I call them.
I have taught her that but after she knew "speak" I mostly used "quiet", and it's been months now so she probably forgot what "speak" is, but I use "quiet" a lot in the house when there's a noise and she barks, then I treat her for being quiet after I say quiet. But she won't listen to me telling her quiet when a guest comes over or when we're outside. I have printed out some articles on how to train for having guests over, but I want to leave that for last since we don't get many people over anyways for now I just put her in a different room. I want to at least solve the barking outside at people at dogs first, I can't imagine us having a healthy owner/pet relationship going out for walks and visiting people with their pets if we don't take control of this behavior. Right now I'm not taking her out to other places much only because it's really stressful for the both of us. I just take her out for a bike ride and have her sniff around the garden.


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Old 11-30-2012, 07:25 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudClan View Post
I think the Rottie incidents may well be what caused this. THAT WAS HORRIFIC Advice to let her be terrified by the Rottie in your class. Once your instructor saw her cowering, it was NOT a good idea to let it continue. Your dog is too small and is rightly afraid of playing with a dog with the size and power of a Rottie. So many people, including trainers are ignorant of what is acceptable. But this is important, when you are desensitizing dogs you want the exposure to be positive. Classical conditioning, a stimuli is presented a good thing happens and the dog is happy. The dog learns to associate that stimuli with positive things. The inverse would also be true of course. A stimuli is presented (the Rottie) a negative thing happens (being chased and stomped on) the dog is frightened. Now as soon as the stimuli is presented, the dog is automatically frightened. This should be canine learning theory 101 going back to Pavlov's dogs, but so many people assume, that just exposure will desensitize and that is simply not the case.



Thanks you so much for posting these links. I went hunting for them and saw that you had already found them.

OP, please read through these. I really understand your frustration and I hope my experiences can help you understand your girl better.



I think aversion techniques will only worsen this situation. So no I would not do the water bottle or the citronella collar.

I would search the APDT site for some trainers. Dog Trainer Search I just did a quick look based on your location and came up with some for you:

APDT Member Trainers:

Behavioral Consultant
Barbara Blanke, PhD San Luis Obispo, CA 93405

Thousand Hills Pet Resort
Nicole Hern, MS San Luis Obispo, CA 93403


APDT trainers use positive methods, but may or may not have a strong background in working with cases like yours. Make sure they have familiarity with Reactive dogs.


Thank you I never knew about those trainers! San Luis Obispo is 40mins from my little town but if it helps us with this situation I wouldn't mind making the drive up there a couple of times.

For desensitizing her I was told to give her high reward treats whenever something happened or someone approached that she would bark at, but giving her treats before she barks. And starting with a big distance between her and the person and slowly moving closer. The problem is I find it works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't, I don't know what makes the difference when I'm doing the same thing, it's just different people that are around.

The previous trainer also said to have her exercise before training, like running and playing. So I did do that, had her run with me while I was on the bike or took her to run free at the beach, she was tired out but still barked like crazy at everything even things she didn't bark at before like birds, so it seemed to me like exercise tires her out, but at the same time makes her hyper. When it's a rainy day like yesterday and were just in home cuddling and sleeping most of the day, then I take her out and she didn't imidietally bark at the neighbors unless they made loud noises, but I was giving her treats so she actually didn't bark at all. That was rare! So I don't know if she needs a calming remedy.



By the way I've already tried the sentry calming collars, that one didn't work on her at all.


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Old 11-30-2012, 07:43 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I would suggest a trainer come to your home. Do the activities in the setting the dog is in, have the trainer come on a walk with you. I know how stressful it can be!
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