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Old 12-06-2012, 06:02 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Uggh. This thread is beyond depressing. I'm guessing the poster is not going to respond about any of this? I was hoping beyond hope they would reconsider .
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:07 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Sounds like the Cesar Milan school of outdated punitive training. There are so many better ways to go. I just don't understand how someone would choose this for a little Maltese.

My neighbor sent her dog (a terrier) to a trainer/boarder for 8 weeks while she had spinal surgery and recovery. She couldn't take care of the dog and wouldn't burden friends with a dog who had really bad behavioral issues... this dog was from a puppy miller via an agent who said the dog "lived in her house;slept in her bed." BS. The dog was petrified of nearly everything and everyone and bolted in harness. They said they taught her to walk, sit, etc. and brought her to the city each week to get used to noises here and she came back Sunday. I swear, I don't see any difference in her. She's still petrified of every sound and every person but her owner. Total ripoff and very expensive. I think because her mom was incapacitated she didn't have much choice but I could never imagine doing that.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:25 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Samantha, I am sure it must feel like everyone is attacking you, but we are all just really concerned for little Emme.
When I look at her sweet face in her picture, I just want to cry. I am afraid for her. She is so teeny tiny. Maltese are such delicate little dogs, with small bones and easily damaged discs in their neck. Maltese puppies are even more easily hurt. Our vet has told us not to even use a regular collar for walks, but to always use a harness because one little tug could cause damage to their necks.
I know that you had a good experience with Monolo, but Emme is so small. It looks like the owner of the company is used to working with larger, more agressive dogs, for whom positive training has not worked. He has a few men in their twenties working with him. I am worried that they will hurt Emme by accident, because they are used to dealing with larger, tougher dogs.
Here is an article on a vet website about the injuries that choke collars can cause:
Understanding Dog Training Collar Injuries - VetInfo
Others have mention damage to the trachea, but also neck injury and paralysis. There are permanent injuries.
If you google prong collars there are some really scary looking pictures of the damage that they can do as well.
Would you please please consider trying positive training first?
Maltese are such loving and happy dogs. All that they want to do is please us. They are so reponsive to clicker training. They are also so attached to us. They desperately need to be with us. It is their "job" as companion dogs.
We are all worried for Emme.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:28 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Summergirl73 View Post
Uggh. This thread is beyond depressing. I'm guessing the poster is not going to respond about any of this? I was hoping beyond hope they would reconsider .
I agree, its beyond depressing. I am completely sickened that anyone would send their maltese to a training for five weeks and allow a choke collar to be used on them. Also, I see a black box in the picture. Is that a shock collar? Good heavens, what in the world. I am curious, the pup I believe is 5 months old and gotten from a breeder. Do most breeders have in their contracts any restrictions about their dogs being put in programs like this and restrictions on certain collars? It would be nice if they did.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:41 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I showed my vet this guys website......... he said there would be no way that he would recommend this to anyone! and the collar that you are using can cause more harm to your little one its better to use a harness! Well its up to you in the end on what you want to do! best of luck!
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:52 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Emme is adorable!!! I hope she has a good experience and I know you will miss her!

I am also one who would never send my dog to a boarding facility for training away from the owner/parent. why? Because I believe the whole core of training should be based upon the bond and communication between the dog and his/her owner. I'm a firm believer that training is not only based in that bond, but strengthens it exponentially. I think that owners should be responsible for socialization of their puppies and work with trainers if they are not able to train the dog. Most of dog training is about training the owner too!

That being said, if one is unable for some reason to provide the proper socialization and upbringing for the puppy especially in those crucial developmental period (between 12-16 wks and again another fear period around 6 months), then boarding may be the less ideal way to have the dog socialized. Its far better to have a socialized dog (if that means from elsewhere) than to keep your dog at home and not properly socialize it - which may lead to a fearful, reactive dog who has poor social skills. That is something that you may have to deal with for the dog's life. Many dogs are rehomed or put in shelters
due to behavioral issues that could be avoided with proper socialization and training early in life.
I guess boarding, although not ideal, with some highly skilled trainer is better than no training or socialization at all.

I highly encourage those who read this forum to utilize books, video, Internet to train WITH your dog- it is VeRY REWARDING.
Marisa -- very well said.

I agree 100% that I would never send one of my fluffs to this facility. This is just not how to train a Maltese. I'm also worried for Emme's safety.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:21 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Thank you for all of your concern. I am glad that you all stand up for what you believe in, but what happens when you don’t have a treat? Clicker? I don’t believe in it for my dogs. Having 3 English Labs, and 2 Maltese, and 1 havanese. I have not hurt one of them by using this method of training. My dogs are apart of my everyday life. I bring them everywhere from nursing homes to cafes. I don’t’ tie them up to a pole or leave them in the car. I can put them in a down stay (which was taught by my trainer) they don’t move. Crazy barking dogs walk by and it doesn’t phase my dogs at all.

Its sad when dogs are given up because they were not properly trained when they were younger and they end up in a shelter. Shelters dogs are not just your puppy mill dogs and aggressive large breeds. Its people who have the sweet little puppies, that become un-socialized, unbalanced, and reactive barking dogs. They give up on them… my local shelter was filled with 10 small dogs last year. That is a FACT.

Since many of you are asking:

Yes. That is a prong collar. It’s a training tool; she won’t be using it for the next 15 years, just the next five weeks. It’s the same thing if her mother was to correct her with a bite. Properly used it will not harm my Emme. Would you rather me use a gentle leader so she can walk off balance and damage her spine? Or a red head halter so she can break her neck. These are the things given to students at petco or petsmart.

No. Emme is not being shocked to sit.That "black box" you see is her collar buckle that is how I bought it. Is prong collar on her all day? NO. Do they yell and scream at dogs? No. She has training, play/socializing/outside, and sleepy time. Is she on a schedule? Yes. Do I get to see my Emme? Yes. Does she get praised for sitting and staying? Yes. Is it with a treat? NO. Will she be shy and timid because here training experience? NO. How do I know? My Manolo. Was any one of my dogs trachea/lungs ruined? NO, because it was used properly. Has Jeff worked with any small dogs? Yes. Has Jeff ever worked with a small Maltese before? YES. Her name was pickles.

Back to me doing my RESEARCH, I have done my research.

I don’t come on these forums to knock people down or make them feel bad about what they do. I come to learn. I don’t want to shove my views down any ones throat. I see how you raise your dog, and I am showing you how I raise mine.
I am not the first or last Maltese owner that has ever used a prong collar.

Thank you all for your concern. Emme has had a busy day of learning. She is not being harmed. I will continue to post pictures/video of her progress.

Last edited by manolomom; 12-06-2012 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:35 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Please do not misunderstand. We are not trying to "shove our views down your throat". We are trying to protect your dogs neck. I am very sorry that you decided not to research the damage that could be done. If you had, you would see that the danger is fact, not opinion. So will your dog be obedient? Yes, but at what cost? I am so very sorry for your pup.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:10 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Yes, I am very concerned and will continue to be. I can tell that no matter what anyone says its not going to change your mind. I feel horrible for your dog and I will keep her in my prayers.

Last edited by summer; 12-06-2012 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:12 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Wow!!!!!! your little one is a darling. I am truly shocked to see a prong collar on a teeny maltese. There are other ways, a lot more gentle. My Lola used to pull and be pretty bad on a leash. Turning quickly and walking the other way cures it, on a regular harness. It may take a while if they are difficult like she was, but she got there. For training with treats it is the same as your collar idea, you wean them off them, you don't have to keep giving them, only now and again as a re-inforcer. Please reconsider.
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