Changing food for fluff with MVD?

[Ladysmom]

Originally Posted by k/c mom

The subject of pet nutrition seems to have gotten a lot more complicated over the years. All we used to have to worry about was does the food contain by-products, does it contain soy, corn, or fillers. Now it is a lot more complicated, it seems.

The Univ. of Pa. paper is a bit too scholarly for me to grasp easily but at the bottom of the page it says "proceedings 1998 Purina Nutrition Forum", which confuses matters because who knows what influence Purina had on what was written.

I'm at the point of total confusion!

And if you look at the studies cited in the reference section of the U of PA white paper, they are all quite old. Most are from the early 1990's, 1980's and even the 1970's.

Since views on pet nutrition have evolved so much in the past 15-20 years, I would love to see some articles based upon more current studies. Fifteen years ago Purina was considered good pet food!

[Purple-peep]

This is very informative! Thank you all for participating.

There is so much to digest with all this information. I'm going to take my time, check out all choices and talk with our vet. Hopefully, we can come up with great diets for both.

I also feel bad that there is no variety at all. Same old kibble every day.

I don't care for wet food because I worry about their teeth.

I'm also thinking that Effie needs a bigger kibble as she never chews, only swallows. That's no good for her teeth.



Th

[Nikki's Mom]

Originally Posted by Purple-peep

This is very informative! Thank you all for participating.

There is so much to digest with all this information. I'm going to take my time, check out all choices and talk with our vet. Hopefully, we can come up with great diets for both.

I also feel bad that there is no variety at all. Same old kibble every day.

I don't care for wet food because I worry about their teeth.

I'm also thinking that Effie needs a bigger kibble as she never chews, only swallows. That's no good for her teeth.



Th

FYI my dogs eat soft food (home cooked) every day. Nikki has done so for almost 2.5 years. Her teeth are fine and she hasn't yet needed a dental done and she is going to be 3 in November.

I give them beef tendons to chew on. (I also have been using LEBA 3 since this past June.)

I am very skeptical of the claim that kibble keeps their teeth clean. I think I need to see actual proof, like results of studies done.

Much of these rumors and claims regarding certain dog foods are started by the manufacturers who want to sell products.

[Purple-peep]

When I got Libby last year the vet wanted her off the wet right away. libby was on dry with just a little wet at night. Our vet went into how small dogs are prone to denal decay and that dry was the best choice for us. Their office pushes a large kibble that cleans the teeth. Because it's bigger, it takes them longer to chew. I bought some as treats and they do help with bad breath.

Maybe there could be a poll thread here. We could do our own study about wet/dry and dental decay

[princessre]

Casanova (2 YO) has eaten mostly home-cooked food and has no dental decay or tartar whatsoever.

My cat (4-6 YO) only eats wet food and has no decay or tartar whatsoever.

On the other hand, Bijou (1 YO) was mostly on kibble due to the necessity of free-feeding a 2 pound puppy and she has significant tartar in her back teeth. Now that she is 3.3 pounds, I no longer free feed. (I do serve them a hot entree every 6 hours on the dot. ) She is getting spayed in a couple weeks, and she will get a dental also.

I think her tartar is probably mostly genetic-- (as she is quite young and we use Leba III everyday)? But I do wonder if some of the carb binders in the kibble actually contribute to tartar and decay, as opposed to helping to scrape tartar off. Because she has eaten more kibble than anyone in this house and she is the only one with tartar.

[Ladysmom]

Here are a couple studies that debunk the myth that dry kibble cleans teeth. Pretty technical stuff, though.

"Although consumption of soft foods may promote plaque accumulation, the general belief that dry foods provide significant oral cleansing should be regarded with skepticism. A moist food may perform similarly to a typical dry food in affecting plaque, stain and calculus accumulation...Typical dry dog and cat foods contribute little dental cleansing. As a tooth penetrates a kibble or treat the initial contact causes the food to shatter and crumble with contact only at the coronal tip of the tooth surface...The kibble crumbles...providing little or no mechanical cleansing...." Logan, et al., Dental Disease, in: Hand et al., eds., Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, Fourth Edition. Topeka, KS: Mark Morris Institute, 2000, p. 487.

"...When comparing dry food only and non-dry food only fed dogs...there is no pattern to the trends (some teeth show an apparent protective effect from feeding dry food only, and others show the opposite -- for calculus index, the trend is protective for all five teeth in dogs feed dry food only, whereas for gingival index it is the opposite, and it is mixed for attachment loss). All maxillary teeth are significantly less likely to be mobile in the dry food only group, yet the mandibular first molar tooth showed the opposite effect." Harvey et al., Correlation of diet, other chewing activities and periodontal disease in North American client-owned dogs. J Vet Dent. 1996 Sept;13(3):101-105

I was concerned about Lady's teeth when I switched her from kibble to homecooked, but my vet told me just to give her a dental chew a few times a week.

[PreciousPrince]

I've read over and over in various books, articles from WDJ and Animal Wellness, ect that it's a myth that kibble helps to clean teeth. However wet food can stick to the teeth and get under gums, so it's probably even more important to brush if you feed wet.
Perri had good teeth until he was in his third year, after he had been on cooked food about a year. Whether it's from being on a wet food that stuck to his teeth and I didn't brush (only used spray), or just from getting older I don't know. But they did seem to go downhill pretty quickly with the tarter buildup in the back. He had his first dental less than a year ago, and he'll probably need another soon even though I use either dental wipes or brush now that I found one that he tolerates.

[Nikki's Mom]

Tarter and plaque is caused by bacteria. Overall health and a good immune system affect tarter/plaque bacteria buildup.

Products like Leba 3, Petzlife, probiotics, and coconut oil-which is anti microbial and antibacterial, plus a low carb (low sugar) food, plus brushing, is effective in controlling/eliminating bacteria, at least for us.

[Crystal&Zoe]

Here is a letter by Dr. Karen Becker, who is a highly respected holistic vet. I think this letter is about a year old. It talks specifically about kidney problems associated with not enough water when feeding strictly a high protein kibble diet. Basically, if feeding a high protein kibble, be sure to soak the kibble in warm water to make a 'gravy' to help with this problem.

Sorry for the quality. The copy I got was scanned and sent to me in a PDF file. So I had to scan this as well into JPEG format so I could post it. If you click on it once, and then once again, it gets big enough to read.

[malteseboy22]

Yes try the Acana they have trial packages and they are only about 3 dollars. I switched Max over and he really likes it since he has tummy and now allergy issues. Orijen is really high in protein and I find it makes there poop really hard...or is it just my dog...lol