# Casanova Can't Stand and Isn't Moving



## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

So Casanova is not moving today. I stood him up and he flops back down. When I asked him to potty, my husband noticed that his tail is down between his leg and he is standing on 3 legs, but not his back left leg. He is extremely sleepy and eyes almost closed all the time but not moving very much. When I stood him up, he finally responded to the vision test.

The vet has a nurse standing by to look at him, or a vet available at 3pm. Should I take him now or later? I am very very worried. We did not notice anything different when we went to sleep last night. Could this be LP that popped out or something? If I go at 3pm, are there things I should or shouldn't do right now? He hasn't pottied this morning either...HELP, PLEASE!! :bysmilie:


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

Oh Sophia- I'd go in now..and have the nurse look at him. Do you think he could have accidentally ingested something?


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

Did you notice anything different yesterday? No accidents that he couldv'e hurt himself?


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

With my first Malt, Rosebud, her knee would pop out and I would gently massage it and then it would be OK. (Way back in the early 1990s, I didn't even know what LP was.) Anway, can you sort of touch the knee and see if you can isolate the problem to that. If he is only standing on three legs, it does sound like an issue with his knee. Sometimes with these little guys, if something isn't right with them, they just sort of freak out and can't function. 

Are his gums a healthy pink? 

If it were me I think I'd go ahead and take him in now just to see if they can do something to make him more comfortable until the vet can see him. Five more hours in discomfort sounds like a long time to me....

Hugs to you and Casonova... :grouphug:


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## njdrake (Apr 23, 2007)

Oh no! I think I'd take him in now and see what the nurse says and you can always take him back at 3:00 if you need too. That sounds a little scary to me so I'd go. 
I hope its nothing serious. Please let us know as soon as you know something. We'll be worried about that baby. 
:grouphug:


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Oh, dear! Please take him in and let us know how he is doing. I'll pray for him.


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## Terry36 (Jan 21, 2009)

I'd take him in NOW!!! I wouldn't wait. Please keep us informed.


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## NIMaltese (May 24, 2009)

I'm with everyone else - take him now.
I hope he is ok - please update us x


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## LUCY N PETS (Apr 21, 2009)

Oh no not our little Casanova prayers coming his way that he is ok. rayer: Stay calm which I know it is hard when they don't feel well, but he is depending on you to get him through it. Gosh, I wish they could talk in times like these. Maybe give Bonnie a call she might have a recommendation on keeping him calm and pain free til you can get him to the vet.
I would definately get him there ASAP. Please, Please keep us updated.
Hugs go out to Casanova and you :sLo_grouphug3:


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

When he is sitting down is his back foot pointing toward his nose? Ellie did this when her knee popped out. She would tremble from the pain. I do think I would go to the vet, I do not remember her not wanting to stand or acting sleepy. I will pray for Casanova, please update.

Cathy


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## roxybaby22 (Feb 25, 2009)

Praying for our little man, Casanova. rayer: rayer: rayer: 

I hope everything is alright. :grouphug:


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

What you describe is not typical of LP. I would take him immediately to the vet. Not being able to stand and showing signs of lethargy is very serious. rayer: 

Let us know.


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Sophia! I hope you're at the vet's office right now. :grouphug: If his knee did pop out, it'll go back in again - we've had that problem before and it's ok. I just hope it's nothing really serious! rayer: 

I'll be back to check in for an update.


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## ckim111 (Dec 17, 2008)

Sophia, I really hope everything will be ok with Casanova. Please let us know what the vet says..


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Sophia OMG. If you need my vet they're there Sundays -- a real vet not a nurse. Call me or e-mail if you need me I'll PM you.


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## Dixie's Mama (Mar 19, 2008)

Oh no, poor Casanova. I am praying for him. I hope you have taken him in. Please let us know how he is when you can. rayer: rayer: rayer: rayer:


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

At the vet's, he is limping. If it's LP, should the vet be able to pop it back in!? Because she tried and he is still limping?? They're taking an xray right now...


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

Praying for you and Cas!!


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

I think it's something with his back leg. When he tries to walk, he lifts that leg up off the ground and then sits down. Is that a sign of LP? At least he is totally alert now. I'm waiting for him and the vet to come back from the x ray, but I'm surprised that it didn't get fixed by her popping it back in? Maybe she didn't do it right or Maybe it's not LP? We came to Tylers vet because ours is closed today


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## ksm (Nov 18, 2008)

We are praying for Casanova, you and hubby.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

It can be sore after putting it back in place. It never fails something happens on a Sunday.
Let us know how he's doing.


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

QUOTE (princessre @ Dec 6 2009, 11:52 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858863


> I think it's something with his back leg. When he tries to walk, he lifts that leg up off the ground and then sits down. Is that a sign of LP? At least he is totally alert now. I'm waiting for him and the vet to come back from the x ray, but I'm surprised that it didn't get fixed by her popping it back in? Maybe she didn't do it right or Maybe it's not LP? We came to Tylers vet because ours is closed today[/B]


was he groomed recently? did you check his nails and paws? i.e., remember what happened to Mia (and me, LOL) back in July w/ her leg lifting incident and I freaked out and had a melt down? lol...all while studying for the Bars? Chris mentioned sometimes it can be cut/scratch or minor infection in the paw pad..did Cas walk outside recently?


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Sophia - so relieved that Casanova is alert now and that you're at the vet. Am thinking of and praying for him. Who's on duty? We had staci Scolavino when we went on a Sunday. Our regular vet is Kim Rosenthal. I think all the vets are supposed to be really good. Happy you got there and hopefully the x-ray will tell more. Keep me posted and if you need ANYTHING just let me know.


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## CeeCee's Mom (Sep 14, 2006)

Oh Goodness........I am just now seeing this! Maybe he did something to his patella playing with Leah yesterday. Is he fully awake now? If it is his patella, it is an easy fix. Just make sure they check his neck good. Bless his little heart!! I know you are upset Sophia. Please keep us informed.........will say a prayer for Cassanova!!!!


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## gibbert (Jan 13, 2005)

Praying for Casanova ... please update us when you are able. Big hugs!


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

rayer: for you and our precious Casanova


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

poor guy i hope it isnt anything serious


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

We're back from the vet's. She says it's probably LP. The X ray didn't indicate anything unusual. 

He's still not walking. Wherever you put him down, that's where he stays. He stands still without moving for a couple minutes, and then he sits back down. 

I just gave him some Rimadyl. If the knee is popped back in place, shouldn't he be able to move? Can people with experience weigh in on this? And if he does have LP, shouldn't he be in more pain? When he got neutered, he would whimper and squeak. He seems like he's not feeling great, but the pain does not seem acute. 

OMG, is my baby just going to be lying around forever? He usually runs around like a rocket. He is too scared to jump, but I guess I'll be carpeting the entire apartment now? I feel so guilty. I ask him to fetch all the time and I have hardwood floors everywhere here.


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## Lindy (Mar 25, 2009)

I just saw your post. Has he been checked for an attached tick? I don't know if you are in an area with ticks. Praying all will be well. These little ones are just so precious.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

The vet thinks it's luxating patella grade 2. I think Casanova was just tired this morning in addition to feeling uncomfortable. We'll give it some time, but if he needs surgery, is it better to get it earlier or later?


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## Cathy (Mar 19, 2006)

QUOTE (princessre @ Dec 6 2009, 11:53 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858897


> The vet thinks it's luxating patella grade 2. I think Casanova was just tired this morning in addition to feeling uncomfortable. We'll give it some time, but if he needs surgery, is it better to get it earlier or later?[/B]



How's his mental state? Does he appear to be confused?

Sending prayer angels to you. I hope you see emprovement soon!

Cathy


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## Lindy (Mar 25, 2009)

Can't help you there. My vet, who is a holistic vet, tells us to wait until absolutely necessary. We also have LP.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Sophia - I don't know much about LP but there are so many way worse things that it could have been (thinking about this morning and letharic behavior) that you just have to keep a positive attitude and be thankful it wasn't one of a myriad of worse ailments. I know there are lots of others on the forum who have had fluffs with this problem so they'll have good advice. And no, I'm sure he won't have a lifetime of not running around like a nut. At the worst, there's surgery, and from what I've heard that isn't so bad. He needs you to be positive and supportive and you'll find out the best things to do. You know you're one of the best mom's here, so Casanova will not just be fine, he'll be terrific. :grouphug:


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## CeeCee's Mom (Sep 14, 2006)

Remember when I had all those extensive test done on Rain when I got her. The vet said she had between grade 1 and 2 Luxating patella and she flies around like crazy. I would think it would have to be greater than 2 if he does not use it very well. Maybe take him back tomorrow to your vet and see what he says. Sophia, they can fix the patella, whatever it is. I was thinking if Cass has ingested something that was poisonous, that would be bad. This is not the best thing but it can be fixed, so don't worry so much. Hey, I am a good one to say that!!! Give him a kiss for me!!!! We love our babies and it is hard to see them not their usual self!!!


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

Poor baby, sure hope he gets better soon. rayer: Maybe after some rest today,he'll be better tomorrow. I'd take him for a 2nd opinion.


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

Sophia, you definitely need to get a 2nd opinion before anything. Wait to take Cas to your own vet. If it is LP then I was told by Chris that earlier is better than later and he has a really good vet (in our area) to recommend for LP surgery. Sending Cas my prayers ((HUGS))


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Oh that is really awful :tender: :tender: rayer: for you and little Casanova. I really hope he is better very soon.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Thanks, everyone. We are hoping maybe Casanova is not walking because he's freaked out and the knee is inflamed from being popped out? So I guess we'll see if he starts walking again after the Rimadyl and some rest. The vet didn't give me much to go on. Maybe she did know what she was doing but isn't into explaining things. But my regular vet is pretty terrible too. I asked her if Casanova had LP when I first got him, and she said NO. Which surprised me because I thought most Maltese had grade 1 at least. I feel sooo bad. I should've carpeted the apartment from the beginning....Well, at least now he has a grin on his face because he just got some braised short ribs...Thanks, everyone, for your prayers and wishes. I hope he gets up and walks soon...


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

Nemo had the surgery 3 years ago. You need to go to an Orthopedic Vet and see what he/she says.
Hugs To Sweet Casanova and You :grouphug:


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (princessre @ Dec 6 2009, 11:53 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858897


> The vet thinks it's luxating patella grade 2. I think Casanova was just tired this morning in addition to feeling uncomfortable. We'll give it some time, but if he needs surgery, is it better to get it earlier or later?[/B]



If he needs surgery it is better to do it now than wait until there could be further damage. Grade two may or may not
require surgery depending on how active he is. 
His leg is probably sore. I would give it some time. Maybe have your vet check him tomorrow.
I'm sure they told you to keep him quiet for a few days at least. 

Pssssst....Casanova, it's me Cosy. Pway dis up for all you can get. Gib her da poor me wook so you get
wots of kisses and tweats.


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## Dixie's Mama (Mar 19, 2008)

Sophia I'm so glad to hear it is something that can either wait or be remedied. It isn't life threatening. I hate to think of any of our babies in pain in any way so believe me I would be freaking out. What a scare you had today. I think you are smart to wait to see how he is in the days ahead. I would get him checked by your vet if you have faith in his opinion. Give that handsome boy some lovin' from me please.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Has anyone heard anything bad about Rimadyl? I was researching it after giving it to Casanova as per the vet's instructions. He's feeling better now. He got up and got a tiny bit, very gingerly. But now I googled Rimadyl and it says that the side effects could be severe liver malfunction and that "death" is a possible side effect of the drug??

http://www.pgaa.com/CANINE/health/rimadylwarning.html


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## jenniferhope423 (Jun 25, 2007)

I'm so sorry that sweet Casanova isn't feeling well. Poor baby  I hope that he feels better soon and his knee heals quickly.


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## CeeCee's Mom (Sep 14, 2006)

QUOTE (princessre @ Dec 6 2009, 01:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858922


> Has anyone heard anything bad about Rimadyl? I was researching it after giving it to Casanova as per the vet's instructions. He's feeling better now. He got up and got a tiny bit, very gingerly. But now I googled Rimadyl and it says that the side effects could be severe liver malfunction and that "death" is a possible side effect of the drug??
> 
> http://www.pgaa.com/CANINE/health/rimadylwarning.html[/B]


Yes, I have heard that Rimadyl is not good. They gave it to CeeCee when she had her teeth cleaned. She had some teeth pulled. That being said, I also have heard short term is okay but not for a long term use. Check with your vet tomorrow..........


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## ksm (Nov 18, 2008)

Sophia, is it just possible that Casanova pulled a leg tendon when playing with Leah? Danica and Brittney rough house all the time. A few weeks ago Brittney was chasing Danica and Danica ran into her pen door. She would not stand or walk on the leg but only a few steps at a time until the next day. He might of twisted is leg a bit and it just got sore and stiff during the night.

I would really be surprised if it is LP. Bonnie is really cautious about that in her breeding. My vet said both of my girls had no signs at all of LP. He said he was surprised they didn't but that he could tell they came from very good breeding lines.

I would certainly check with my regular vet or get yet another opinion before I did any thing radical like surgery.

Our prayers are with Casanova and you guys for a speedy recovery.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (princessre @ Dec 6 2009, 12:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858922


> Has anyone heard anything bad about Rimadyl? I was researching it after giving it to Casanova as per the vet's instructions. He's feeling better now. He got up and got a tiny bit, very gingerly. But now I googled Rimadyl and it says that the side effects could be severe liver malfunction and that "death" is a possible side effect of the drug??
> 
> http://www.pgaa.com/CANINE/health/rimadylwarning.html[/B]



Rimadyl is an NSAID so there can be side effects. However, most side effects are over a longer period of time rather
than a day or two or with dogs that have other serious problems.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

QUOTE (Cosy @ Dec 6 2009, 02:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858939


> QUOTE (princessre @ Dec 6 2009, 12:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858922





> Has anyone heard anything bad about Rimadyl? I was researching it after giving it to Casanova as per the vet's instructions. He's feeling better now. He got up and got a tiny bit, very gingerly. But now I googled Rimadyl and it says that the side effects could be severe liver malfunction and that "death" is a possible side effect of the drug??
> 
> http://www.pgaa.com/CANINE/health/rimadylwarning.html[/B]



Rimadyl is an NSAID so there can be side effects. However, most side effects are over a longer period of time rather
than a day or two or with dogs that have other serious problems.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree. Don't give it to him for too long.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (ksm @ Dec 6 2009, 02:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858937


> I would really be surprised if it is LP. Bonnie is really cautious about that in her breeding. My vet said both of my girls had no signs at all of LP. He said he was surprised they didn't but that he could tell they came from very good breeding lines.[/B]


Being a maltese, with very fragile bones, any little injurery can happen and they can get LPs. It's another problem if you one day just get a LP for no reason, then that's more depends on your breeding lines.


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

oh, I'm so sorry, I don't know anything about LP but just want to say that I hope gorgeous Casanova is feeling better soon!!


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## marleysmom (Apr 16, 2008)

Poor Casanova! You are in our prayers. When Tobi was younger his knee popped out of place and he was very quiet for a day or so. The vet checked him out and said to keep an eye him. Fortunately, nothing has ever happened again. I hope this is the case with sweet little Casanova.


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

So scary... I will also be praying for him

In the meantime, please don't encourage him to walk, he probably needs lots of rest right now. No jumping either. If you don't have stairs for the furniture he goes up on (sofa, bed, whatnot), please get some. It definitely relieves the strains caused by jumping. 

I'm glad he seems to be feeling better and hope it's just inflammation. We've given Rimadyl for pain before (seems to be the standard for pain relief for dogs). Unfortunately, just about every med has those scary side effect warnings... 

Feel better, Casanova


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

All NSAIDs can have GI side effects (inappetance, vomiting, diarrhea). Give with food and discontinue if any of those occur. Rimadyl is fine for a short course for a healthy dog. Things like increased liver enzymes can occur in dogs who are on it for long periods of time. This is why any animal on NSAIDs long term should have regular labwork checks. 

If he injured his patella and it is just flopping around, I would not be surprised that he does not want to walk on it. Otherwise with rest and anti-inflammatories he should improve. Dogs with a severe grade four injury will need surgery. Soda did this twice (he had normal patellae before injuries).


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## Bethy (Oct 10, 2009)

Feel better soon Casanova. Penelope and I will be praying for you and hope you feel better soon rayer:


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

QUOTE (princessre @ Dec 6 2009, 01:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858897


> The vet thinks it's luxating patella grade 2. I think Casanova was just tired this morning in addition to feeling uncomfortable. We'll give it some time, but if he needs surgery, is it better to get it earlier or later?[/B]



I know how scared you are, B&B had the same thing happen to her a few months ago. Our vet said she had luxating patella level 2, she would not use her leg for a week or so, (but remember she's a old girl almost 11) Hugs to you. I just said a prayer for handsome Casanova.


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## Alvar's Mom (Mar 5, 2007)

poor Casanova! I hope he feels better soon :grouphug:


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## jodublin (Sep 27, 2006)

Penelope and I will be praying for you and caanovarayer:


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

It seems like so many of our malts have bad patellas.  Elaine's malt had the surgery and she runs around like a puppy again! :aktion033: 

My poor Archie has bad patellas in both back legs, a torn ACL in one of his hind legs and arthritis in both front legs. He's about to turn 6 years old next week and he's turning into an old man already. Our vet still seems reluctant to operate on the ACL. He thinks Arch will limp for the rest of his life. He doesn't limp now, but when standing still he does hold one of his back legs up. I don't think he's in pain...but sometimes I'm not sure.  

I bet Cas's leg is just pretty sore right now. It'll get better, it'll just take a few days. :flowers:


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## ckim111 (Dec 17, 2008)

How is cas feeling? Sophia don't blame yourself. Honestly carpeting your apt would not prevent lp even if he does have lp. Also he doesn't even jump right? 

I hope it wasn't caused from playing with Leah. Was he ok all day Saturday? Hang in there cas. Leah and I are thinking about you..


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm sorry Casanova isn't feeling well today. I'm concerned it might not be his patella causing his symptoms though... Both of my yorkies have bilateral luxating patellas (Rylie has grade 2 both sides, and Lacy has grade 2 left and grade 3 right) and neither have ever showed any signs of limping, pain or anything. Lacy's right patella pops in and out all the time and she's never had any symptoms from it fortuantely. Usually symptoms of luxating patellas are limping or lifting the leg up off the ground when it pops out but I haven't really heard of really severe symptoms like not standing at all or lethargy from it. One person I know had a yorkie with very severe grade 4 LPs (patellas stayed popped out all the time) and she would be in quite a bit of pain from that... I know a couple people that have had LP surgery done on their dogs and it's not necessarily a "cure-all" surgery. One yorkie I know has had the LP surgery done twice on one leg..she still limps occasionally. The other (the one that had grade 4s) has osteoarthritis that still acts up. So the surgery usually helps but they usually still have arthritis from it. This is the reason I haven't considered having LP surgery on Lacy...she's never shown any signs of pain or anything so I don't feel as if she needs the surgery as the surgery itself can cause arthritis later on too.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

*Can you see LP on an x-ray???* The vet was very vague and didn't mention anything about LP until I asked her if it was. Then she said, "Yeah, could be." Then I said, "What grade?" Then she said, "maybe 2 out of 4?" Honestly, she didn't seem to know a whole lot. Or she was the most non-communicative person I've ever met. She said she didn't see anything unusual on the x-ray, yet someone I spoke to said they should be able to see LP on an x-ray. 

Right now, Casanova is just taking a nap. The Rimadyl definitely made him feel better as he finally got up to go on the pee-pad. He also walked over gingerly to get water. I think the lethargy this morning was really just him being really tired and freaked out about his leg. He is not a morning "person", and he also was really exhausted from this weekend, I think...We'll keep observing. Thanks everyone, for your wishes and prayers. I feel so sorry for my baby.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Unless the patella is currently out of place, you would not see anything on an x-ray. The other common injury is a cruciate ligament injury. I would follow up with another vet tomorrow.


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## bellapuppy (Dec 1, 2008)

Oh, I do hope Casanova is better tomorrow. I also agree with jmm. I would seek a 2nd opinion.


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## almitra (Apr 24, 2009)

Just this moment saw this thread--so sorry your sweet little guy is having knee trouble. I really hope you get full fledged answers from your own vet Monday...please keep us in the loop cuz we care what happens to your tiny little furbaby boy.


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## chichi (Apr 12, 2007)

I hope Casanova feels better. :wub:


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

QUOTE (princessre @ Dec 6 2009, 05:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=859020


> *Can you see LP on an x-ray???* The vet was very vague and didn't mention anything about LP until I asked her if it was. Then she said, "Yeah, could be." Then I said, "What grade?" Then she said, "maybe 2 out of 4?" Honestly, she didn't seem to know a whole lot. Or she was the most non-communicative person I've ever met. She said she didn't see anything unusual on the x-ray, yet someone I spoke to said they should be able to see LP on an x-ray.
> 
> Right now, Casanova is just taking a nap. The Rimadyl definitely made him feel better as he finally got up to go on the pee-pad. He also walked over gingerly to get water. I think the lethargy this morning was really just him being really tired and freaked out about his leg. He is not a morning "person", and he also was really exhausted from this weekend, I think...We'll keep observing. Thanks everyone, for your wishes and prayers. I feel so sorry for my baby.[/B]


Hmm...doesn't seem like they really knew what they were talking about. Patella luxation is graded by manual manipulation, not x-rays. X-rays I believe are used to further diagnose...multiple x-rays can be taken to see the patella in and out of the proper place and to see if the leg bones have any abnormal rotation. X-rays can also diagnose osteoarthritis I believe. But I've never heard of x-rays diagnosing the GRADE of luxating patellas by itself. 

Grade I - the patella can be manually luxated but returns to the normal position when released; 

Grade II - the patella can be manually luxated or it can spontaneously luxate with flexion of the stifle joint. The patella remains luxated until it is manually reduced or when the animal extends the joint and derotates the tibia in the opposite direction of luxation; 

Grade III - the patella remains luxated most of the time but can be manually reduced with the stifle joint in extension. Flexion and extension of the stifle results in reluxation of the patella; 

Grade IV - the patella is permanently luxated and cannot be manually repositioned. There may be up to 90¼ of rotation of the proximal tibial plateau. The femoral trochlear groove is shallow or absent, and there is displacement of the quadriceps muscle group in the direction of luxation.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Sophia - happy that Casanova's coming around more now. Which vet did you see? The ones I dealt with communicated a lot with me about what was going on. Sorry it wasn't that way for you but at least there was a vet there, they did take x-rays and Cas is doing a bit better. I'm not sure who you'll want to take him to tomorrow. Kim Rosenthal is the one we've seen the most there and she's been a vet for the past 20 years. But you need to go to whomever you'll be comfortable with. Thinking of Casanova and hoping this is just one of those cases where he hurt himself and is coming out of it. Keep us posted. :grouphug:


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## sophie (Jul 9, 2006)

I'll be keeping your handsome Casanova in my thoughts and prayers - you too! Hugs,

Linda


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Sophia, I just checked into SM and have been reading your thread about Casanova. I'm so sorry he is not feeling well. It does sound though as if he is getting some pain relief with the pain medication. And, I had to smile when you said that he had a big grin after eating some braised ribs!  

I agree with those who have suggested you get a second opinion. And, please don't be so hard on yourself, Sophia. You are the best Mommy to Casanova. :tender: 

I'll be checking in for updates tomorrow. I hope you both get a peaceful night's sleep. Sweet puppy-doggie dreams for Casanova. And, hugs for you, Sophia.

Please give Casanova some gentle cuddles from me. :wub:


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## totallytotontuffy (May 16, 2007)

Just reading this now and sending you guys lots of hugs and prayers. I hope that a night of rest will bring great improvement in the morning. Noselicks from the T's.


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## donnad (Aug 22, 2006)

Poor baby...I will keep him in my thoughts and prayers. Hopefully by tomorrow, he will be feeling much better.


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## fach (Jun 27, 2005)

Just saw this thread. Sending prayers your way....


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Praying the meds give your little guy some relief! 
As to any NSAID it is a huge help to avoid gastro side affects by feeding abt 1/2 food and give med then feed other half of food. My Missy was on NSAID ( another kind) daily for a very long time (about a year and 9 mos)and using this method seemed to help becaue she never had any issues. The vet did stress when saying 'give with food.. she didn't mean just a bit of something wrapped around it.. it was to be substantial as with the 1/2 meal etc.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

My personal experience with arthritis and knee surgeries is the sooner you do surgery, the less problems you have later. Soda had his traumatic LP repaired within days of the injury. He is now 4 and has NO arthritis on x-ray and NO lameness. 2 of the surgeons I have worked with have emphasized how important it is to repair cruciate injuries quickly to prevent long term problems and LP as soon as the patella moves on its own (not just with manipulation). Just because you CAN wait and see does not mean it is best for the future. See a good surgeon as soon as possible and make the best decision for you individual dog. 

If the patella is moving in and out on its own, it is creating arthritis each time it moves. Allowing this to go on for months or years vs. interrupting the joint capsule with surgery is no contest in my book. My dogs are very active and their soundness is absolutely necessary for them to live happy, long lives without pain. 

I am all for a vet who is conservative with surgery, but not at the potential long-term detriment to my dog. Seeing 6, 7, 8 year old dogs who were diagnosed with a grade 3 a number of years ago and the vet said since they don't need pain meds, just leave it....these dogs have a good amount of arthritis when they finally get surgery. What would that joint have looked like if it did not have years of instability? Its a question I find myself asking when it comes to treating my dogs.


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

Sophia- I've been so worried about Cassanova. You really haven't any reason to blame this on yourself. You're a dream mommy! Please lets us know what the 2nd Vet says. Sometimes, doctors- are very vague in explaining and detailing...it just their style.


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## cuevasfam (Jul 13, 2008)

I am just now reading this and so sorry Cas has had to go through this (you too) :bysmilie: but am happy to read he's doing better. I hope you get that second opinion and figure out what is going on. Get some rest and lots of kisses to Cas. :wub:


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (JMM @ Dec 6 2009, 05:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=859023


> Unless the patella is currently out of place, you would not see anything on an x-ray. The other common injury is a cruciate ligament injury. I would follow up with another vet tomorrow.[/B]



I would think with a cruciate tear there would be a lot of pain. 

It could be there is no grade 2 but rather a sprain due to sliding or slipping on a surface. 
Sophia, I would wait until you have an opinion from another vet or specialist in LP before
fearing the worst.


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## phesty (May 30, 2006)

I'm praying for you and Casanova and hope he's feeling better in the morning.

On the issue of surgery for luxating patellas...Josie is 4 and had her surgery last year. Our vet, who specializes in orthopedics, used to recommend waiting until the dog's daily activity was affected. I was the one who pushed to do Josie's surgery sooner, rather than later. After doing Josie's knees (yep, both of them) the vet said that she's going to start recommending doing surgery much sooner because Josie's surgery went so much smoother than those she had done on older dogs. I told her I learned everything I know on Spoiled Maltese.  

A year later, you'd never know Josie had any problems with her knees. She got her "springs" back about four months after surgery.

Josie says: I'm prayin' for you, cutie Casanova. Let me know if you need me to come and nurse you back to health... :wub: :wub: :wub:


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

QUOTE (Cosy @ Dec 6 2009, 08:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=859081


> QUOTE (JMM @ Dec 6 2009, 05:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=859023





> Unless the patella is currently out of place, you would not see anything on an x-ray. The other common injury is a cruciate ligament injury. I would follow up with another vet tomorrow.[/B]



I would think with a cruciate tear there would be a lot of pain. 

It could be there is no grade 2 but rather a sprain due to sliding or slipping on a surface. 
Sophia, I would wait until you have an opinion from another vet or specialist in LP before
fearing the worst.
[/B][/QUOTE]

If a dog is not weight bearing on a leg, it is PAINFUL.


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## puppy lover (Dec 25, 2007)

Oh sweet Cassanova, I'm sorry to hear this and hope he's feeling better soon :grouphug:


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## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

Just reading this now and so sorry to hear he is not feeling well. I hope he is better soon.


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## CeeCee's Mom (Sep 14, 2006)

Just checking in this morning for any updates on sweet little Cassanova! Hope he is feeling good this morning Sophia!!!


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

:smheat: So this morning, Casanova woke up walking fine, still not running, but otherwise totally normal and wanting off the couch where I have him trapped on bedrest. 

What is the difference between spraining your leg and having LP? Can a better vet tell that from feeling his knees? Or is LP defined by multiple incidents of knee popping out? 

Thank you everyone for your prayers. :ThankYou: I know they helped him. I'm just confused how he could go from feeling so bad yesterday morning to totally fine and wanting to be neighbor patrol dog this morning again. Maybe he doesn't even have LP? I might goto an orthopedic vet next. If anyone has a good one to recommend around NYC, please let me know.


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Yipee, so glad our boy is feeling better. :chili: When the knee is back in place, there probably isn't any pain. Archie runs around like a banchee sometimes and he's got very bad legs.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Phew! he has us all scared for our little poster boy  I am so happy he is feeling better.

Lola sends :tender: :tender: :tender:


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## Toby Cooper (May 30, 2008)

I'm so glad that Casanova is better, it's so scary when they aren't doing OK.
Linda and Toby :Sunny Smile: :heart:


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

QUOTE (princessre @ Dec 7 2009, 08:46 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=859178


> :smheat: So this morning, Casanova woke up walking fine, still not running, but otherwise totally normal and wanting off the couch where I have him trapped on bedrest.
> 
> What is the difference between spraining your leg and having LP? Can a better vet tell that from feeling his knees? Or is LP defined by multiple incidents of knee popping out?
> 
> Thank you everyone for your prayers. :ThankYou: I know they helped him. I'm just confused how he could go from feeling so bad yesterday morning to totally fine and wanting to be neighbor patrol dog this morning again. Maybe he doesn't even have LP? I might goto an orthopedic vet next. If anyone has a good one to recommend around NYC, please let me know.[/B]


I'm so glad he appears to feel better!


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Oh gee, I've not been on SM much this past couple of weeks and I'm just now seeing this. Poor Cas...and poor you. It's always terrifying when you know they are hurt and you don't know what is going on. I'm so glad to hear there is a huge improvement. It's amazing how these babies bounce back. Also, those with more than one can I'm sure attest that each one has a different pain tolerance level and how quickly they show pain. My Zoe doesn't show any signs of pain until it's pretty critical and could have been taken care of way earlier if she would have given any indiciations. Jett tends to let me know if something might hurt. lol So I think that is why there are so many different stories as to how each one reacts/responds to LP's or joint sprains and injuries. Jett has a grade one and a grade 2 with the grade two described as 'flopping back and forth'. He never skips, never hops, never limps, and the only time it popped out was after a vet did an exam that hurt him. I think she made it worse. :angry: He's seen 4 vets now and all say he's not a candidate for surgery and may never be. But there are so many differing opinions on LP's, how do you know for sure you are doing what is right? I guess you have to go with your instincts and hopefully have a vet you trust to have your babies long term best interest at heart. As for carpet vs. hardwood floors, I prefer carpet since slipping and falling on the hardwood can cause injury which can either cause LP's or aggravate and make them worse. I cringe everytime I see Jett slip and fall on his side at the store when he's tearing around. 

Give that sweet boy some snuggles from me. :hugging:


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## jenn78 (Oct 27, 2009)

Saying a prayer now for little Casanova! I hope everything is ok......I will check back tonight after I get off for updates........................(just seen the update:: glad he is feeling better, still gonna say a prayer for ya!)

Know our thoughts and prayers are with you! :hugging: rayer:


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## njdrake (Apr 23, 2007)

I'm thrilled to see Casanova is feeling better. 
I hope it was nothing and he continues to do well. 
Keep us posted and give him a hug from us.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Sophia - so glad that Casanova is feeling more like himself. It was so scary yesterday. I know you were beside yourself. I would think someone here would have a good ortho or you can find one linked to the Animal Hospital on the East or West Side. 
It is so strange how they can be one way one day and completely fine the next...very much like skin kids. My son would be really sick with something, actually almost anything, and the next day no fever, no complaints, going on all cylinders. :confused1: 
I'm hoping this was just an isolated case and he might have just pulled or strained something. When I decided to go with a Maltese I knew that the knees were a problem area I never dealt with before (and I had a Yorkie and Chihuahua) so it's always in my mind but right now I'm the one with the bad knees--torn ligaments and torn meniscus. Come to think of it, I have some days when I'm in such pain and can hardly walk and the next day I get up and can walk a mile or two. I think it's how things line up when I wake up. And I've put off my meniscus surgery since last year this time and don't think I"m doing myself any favors.
I also have mostly wood floors because of allergy and asthma problems my son has. Rugs are huge breeding grounds for dust mites, dirt, mildew, etc. so there' the trade off of that. I think it's healthier for overall health not to have the rugs...I know lots of fluffs have allergies, so you might be trading off one problem for another which I think can be worse. JMO
I'm thinking of you and Casanova. :grouphug: Let me know if you need anything.


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## almitra (Apr 24, 2009)

Relieved he;s feeling better for now....of course knowing exactly what is/was the cause will be better so you ca address the reason for the painful incident. Hugs to little Casanova. :wub:


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## dex'smom (Jan 11, 2009)

Hi how is he- i was so worried.. tried to call you


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Maybe he pulled a muscle or ligament and doesn't have LP. Second opinion seems in order.


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

QUOTE (princessre @ Dec 7 2009, 07:46 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=859178


> :smheat: So this morning, Casanova woke up walking fine, still not running, but otherwise totally normal and wanting off the couch where I have him trapped on bedrest.
> 
> What is the difference between spraining your leg and having LP? Can a better vet tell that from feeling his knees? Or is LP defined by multiple incidents of knee popping out?
> 
> Thank you everyone for your prayers. :ThankYou: I know they helped him. I'm just confused how he could go from feeling so bad yesterday morning to totally fine and wanting to be neighbor patrol dog this morning again. Maybe he doesn't even have LP? I might goto an orthopedic vet next. If anyone has a good one to recommend around NYC, please let me know.[/B]


A vet diagnosed Boo with mild LP when he was about 11 mths old. Said he would probably have to have surgery by the time he was 2 yrs old. He had been limping a bit after we had gone on a weekend trip & did a lot of walking/stair climbing. He put him on rimadyl & had instant cure,much better the next day. I worried about it for over 2 yrs,then decided to take him to a specialist who gave him a very thorough exam & said he could find no problem at all with his knees,stifles,hips or spine & that he probably just occasionally gets a mild sprain from too much jumping,running up stairs,etc. He just turned 6 yrs old & is fine. Wish I had taken him to a specialist sooner,I could have saved myself from all the worry. Hopefuly Cas just overdid it & will be fine too,but a 2nd opinion is always a good thing. I'm glad he's doing good today.


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## HaleysMom (Jun 4, 2009)

So glad Casanova is doing better :tender: 

((Hugs))

Celena


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## KAG (Jun 1, 2006)

Aww, Sophia. My heart goes out to you and your beautiful boy. So glad to hear he's feeling better today. 
xoxoxoxoxo
This place is awesome:

http://www.fifthavevetspecialists.com/


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Sophia,

Just reading this post and I'm so glad that I read the entire post and that Casanova is feeling better today.

Lacie has Grade 1 LP in both of her back knees. When she had her annual physical in April, her regular vet was on an emergency call and a young (just out of college) vet examined her. The young vet told me that Lacie had Grade 4 LPs and I almost fainted as they was a big change in a year's time.

Lacie had a dental a week later which her regular vet performed and I asked Dr. Patricia to examine her knees while she was out. Dr. Patricia assured me that Lacie's LPs were still a Grade 1 and then laughed and said that was the difference in practicing for 25+ years and just getting out of school.

As I check Lacie's knees at least once a week, I was more than shocked when I was told that they were a Grade 4.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that you need to find a good experienced vet or a specialist.

Prayers that Casanova continues to improve. rayer: rayer: rayer:


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## LitGal (May 15, 2007)

I'm glad that Casanova is feeling better. I'm wishing him a full recovery - hopefully it wasn't LP at all, just a small injury that will heal on its own.


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## cleooscar (May 28, 2008)

I'm just reading this post now and so glad to hear that Casanova is feeling better. Did you go to see your regular vet today? I wonder what it could have been but glad he's able to walk again. :grouphug:


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## Maisie and Me (Mar 12, 2009)

Sophia,

You must have had one heck of a scare :w00t: I just saw this post and I hope all is much better with Cassanova now.I hope and pray you get good news when you go for your next appoint.


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## susie and sadie (Jun 22, 2005)

I'm just now seeing this. Poor Casanova! I'm so glad to hear he's doing better today.

Hugs for you both. :grouphug:


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Sophia
How is Casanova doing today? :grouphug:


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## Terry36 (Jan 21, 2009)

Updates please....hope Cassanova is doing better.


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## Moxie'smom (Dec 16, 2007)

HOPE CAS IS DOING BETTER. :wub:


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

Sounds like inflammation must have subsided! Whew! So happy for you that he's feeling better...be careful not to let him overdue though *and no jumping on and off furniture at all anymore for sure*

Take care


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Sophia, how is he doing today?


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Thanks everyone for asking. Casanova's leg seems fine now. :huh: He is walking fast and keeps _trying_ to run and jump. I had him on Rimadyl for the past couple days, but think I will discontinue now since his stomach seemed a little upset by it by last night. I'm doing lots of research on orthopedic vets that do not just practice surgery if anyone has a good recommendation in NYC. Honestly, I am a lot more scarred by this than he is. Casanova seems totally over it. I asked him yesterday why he was so non-responsive on Sunday morning and he said, "I was hung over."  I'm just so glad for my little man to be feeling much better. :wub: Thank you everyone for your support and prayers. :ThankYou: It was such a scare.


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## Bethy (Oct 10, 2009)

So glad to hear Casanova if feeling much better. We were so worried about him. Looking at him melts my hearts and I hate to know he is in pain. Sometimes I think when our furballs are not feeling well "we" take it harder than they do...LOL!!

So happy he's feeling better :biggrin:


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## wooflife (Aug 8, 2007)

I haven't had time to comment until today but I have been very worried for you and Casanova and kept you in my prayers. I'm glad he is doing better. 

You might want to look into canine swim therapy in your area - I understand it's a great way to strengthen the muscles with out causing any joint damage and in some dogs it has helped them avoid needing the surgery. Izzy has LP grade 1 and I do let her swim in the tub once a week to try to help.

Of course a good orthapedic surgeon's opinion is necessary to know for sure what your next steps should be. 

I'm so glad Casanova is better!!!


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Really relieved to hear that Casanova's being Casanova again. :chili: It's way harder to keep them quiet then you'd think...after our neuter Tyler would sneak out our door and shoot down the hall. :smpullhair: with me screaming to stop. Sure mom, forget it! :bysmilie: 
I agree, take him off pain meds if he doesn't need them but sometimes they really bridge the gap and allow the pet to calm down and feel better. I'm hoping someone else in NYC can chime in about the ortho person. Was just wondering...did you ask Westside when you were there for a recommendation? You could always get a name and do some research on him/her on your own. I realize you might have been too traumatized at the time to process info and do that. Did you get a copy of his x-ray? I'm really hoping that he just sprained something. I know we were going to get the guys together this week but you'll probably want to wait. Give him lots of hugs and kisses from us. :grouphug:


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## cleooscar (May 28, 2008)

What a relief that Cassanova is back to his happy self again. :biggrin:


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## almitra (Apr 24, 2009)

Oh, Sophia this is the *BEST* news!!!! Thanks so much for sharing it with all of us here.


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## HaleysMom (Jun 4, 2009)

Just checking to see how Casanova was doing, its great to hear he is feeling better!! ((Hugs))


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

Whew, so glad to see sweet Casanova is feeling better! Now if mommy can relax a little....


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Glad the little guy is doing better. These precious fluffs scare us half to death sometimes!


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## Canada (Jun 4, 2009)

Thank Goodness Casanova will be okay!
I just saw this post now and was very worried.
But I read all the way through, and I see that he is feeling better.
Please give your precious boy a HUG from us! :heart:


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