# Looking for male for pet, any age



## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

Hi,

I joined the forum to ask for suggestions as to where I might find a healthy, well-bred pet Maltese. I am super picky about temperament. I would rescue, provided the dog had good references as to his temperament. I live near Cher-Chien, who I have contacted and am waiting to hear back from. 

I do not need a show quality dog, but I want a good quality dog...maybe someone has a boy who is slightly oversized, has a minor physical or aesthetic flaw, etc. I don't want to breed, I just want an awesome little buddy to hang out with almost 24/7. 

I am home all the time, have a privacy-fenced yard, am a total health nut (only about the dogs...not myself, lol) and want a sweet, laid back, stable-temperamented puppy or dog. I have zillions of references for concerned breeders. 

If anyone has anything like what I'm looking for or knows of someone who has to give up a pet or knows of a good rescue or breeder's dog, please send me a PM please and I will get back to you ASAP!

Thanks so much!


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## Hatsumomo77 (Sep 11, 2011)

What state do you live in? A good place to find reputable breeders is the American Maltese Association. If you want visit their website at American Maltese Association and find your state or one near you. Also if you wanna rescue a Maltese try petfinder.com and search for Maltese breeds there! Anywho if you need any more help let us know and welcome to SM!!!!!!


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## RudyRoo (Jun 24, 2011)

Welcome to SM! I'm not very knowledgeable about what breeder's have available right now, but my advice would be to check with the new AMA rescue page. They have posted about some absolutely precious little Maltese that have come their way recently. After getting an application accepted they could probably get you in contact with some of their foster parents who could talk to you about the dogs temperaments. Actually, any rescue would be able to do that if you are not near any AMA foster sites. That way you wouldn't have to wait as long as you might have to for a breeder pup! Here are some recent threads with some videos and pics of some of the AMA rescues. Warning: get out your tissues 

Storm
Chemistry
Precious
Tippi Hedren
Browyne's pups
Tumbleweed and Tumbleweed Part II
Cotton
Rosebud
A Tribute to AMA rescuers

Whichever route you go, you made the perfect decision for a little 24/7 buddy. Maltese are perfection.


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

Duh...I'm sorry. I said who I lived near, but forgot to mention the state;-) I live near Chicago, about an hour West. 

I did go through the AMA site, though I missed the rescue part, apparently. I will go back and check. Thanks!

I have a housebreaking question...........how bad are they? I have had Chihuahuas, so they can't be any worse, but on a scale, how easy or hard are they to housebreak and did you go the litterbox route first?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Caleb's Mom said:


> Duh...I'm sorry. I said who I lived near, but forgot to mention the state;-) I live near Chicago, about an hour West.
> 
> I did go through the AMA site, though I missed the rescue part, apparently. I will go back and check. Thanks!
> 
> I have a housebreaking question...........how bad are they? I have had Chihuahuas, so they can't be any worse, but on a scale, how easy or hard are they to housebreak and did you go the litterbox route first?


I have an almost seven month old boy who arrived housebroken at 12 weeks. He will use pads indoors or go outside. He was very easy!

I had Bailey neutered right at five months as toy breeds like Maltese do tend to mark their territory. Once they start marking it can be a very difficult habit to break. 

Since you want a little boy, a puppy neutered between 5-6 months will be best as far as housebreaking. Of course, there are many older "teenage" males or retirees from show breeders that make wonderful pets. Just make sure you ask if they mark so you can make an informed decision.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

My Bonnie was very easy to pad train, although my method was unconventional. There are a lot of posts here on the proper way to train, whether outside, or pad. I'm sure that some of our members use litterboxes, too. Try a search for that.

All rescue organizations are good at matching dogs' temperaments to their new home (as are breeders), so that shouldn't be a problem. Besides AMA, there is Southern Comfort Maltese Rescue, and Northcentral Maltese Rescue, which is in Racine, WI.

Southern Comfort Maltese Rescue
Northcentral Maltese Rescue, Inc.

Welcome to the forum, and please keep us posted on your progress!


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

I know the various housebreaking methods, but was more curious about how long it took. Some are notoriously horrible (like Chihuahuas) and some are typically housebroken on their own at 8 weeks (like my GSDs). I just wondered if they are more stubborn, more clean, faster learners, etc. I think I still have my little dog litterbox, somewhere.........

I can't find the AMA dogs on petfinder, so is there a way to find out which, if any, are still available? What state are they in? I don't mind a road trip, if it's only a few hours (entire day trips are not feasible). 

Sorry; I'm still learning my way around this forum and I'm sure I'm missing a lot of obvious links.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Caleb's Mom said:


> I know the various housebreaking methods, but was more curious about how long it took. Some are notoriously horrible (like Chihuahuas) and some are typically housebroken on their own at 8 weeks (like my GSDs). I just wondered if they are more stubborn, more clean, faster learners, etc. I think I still have my little dog litterbox, somewhere.........
> 
> I can't find the AMA dogs on petfinder, so is there a way to find out which, if any, are still available? What state are they in? I don't mind a road trip, if it's only a few hours (entire day trips are not feasible).
> 
> Sorry; I'm still learning my way around this forum and I'm sure I'm missing a lot of obvious links.


If you are interested in adopting an AMA rescue, the best thing to do is to contact Edie (Plenty Pets 20) and fill out an application. Edie will be able to tell you who is available, where they are located, etc. after you are approved.


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

I did check out the North Central rescue and there are a few of interest. Does anyone know if they will adopt a dog out to someone with intact dogs in the household? If they think I'm spaying my German import in order to rescue a Maltese mix, they're mistaken;-). I have been turned down by many rescues for this reason and it's upsetting. In essence, you're forced to buy from a breeder instead of rescue. I will try calling them tomorrow or Monday, but if anyone knows off the top of their head whether they're the kind of rescue that goes case-by-case (fingers crossed for that one!!!) or has blanket rules, I'd appreciate the info.

You guys are way more helpful than most forums to newcomers. Thanks a bunch.


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

Sorry, posted before I saw your post. I will do that. Thanks again!


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

Caleb's Mom said:


> I did check out the North Central rescue and there are a few of interest. Does anyone know if they will adopt a dog out to someone with intact dogs in the household? If they think I'm spaying my German import in order to rescue a Maltese mix, they're mistaken;-). I have been turned down by many rescues for this reason and it's upsetting. In essence, you're forced to buy from a breeder instead of rescue. I will try calling them tomorrow or Monday, but if anyone knows off the top of their head whether they're the kind of rescue that goes case-by-case (fingers crossed for that one!!!) or has blanket rules, I'd appreciate the info.
> 
> You guys are way more helpful than most forums to newcomers. Thanks a bunch.


You're definitely headed in the right direction with all of the researching you're doing and contacting various people. Rescue would be great if it works out, but it doesn't work out for everyone for various reasons! Before I got Preston who is from a reputable show breeder, I tried to rescue a boy but London didn't like him. I wanted him so bad, he was a sweetie...but their personalities clashed. Then, I brought Preston home and she instantly took to him! The right little guy will come along whether it's through rescue or from a reputable breeder. The boys are hands down my fav! Preston was virtually housebroken after a week or two. He came to me started on pads but I can't handle the smell so I switched right away to outdoor training...he caught on right away. London, though, still isn't 100% reliable and she is turning 4 next month. She has always been a difficult dog.

I'm curious why you wouldn't have your German Shepard spayed/neutered?? I'm not sure that would disqualify you from adopting a rescue since all rescues are spayed/neutered before going to their forever homes but there are HUGE health benefits to altering dogs so I'm not understanding why you are not willing to do it unless you are a show breeder.


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

Not looking to start an argument, but there are actually far more severe consequences (both health and performance) of spaying and neutering than leaving them as nature intended. I have a whole bunch of links to unbiased research on the topic. If you're really bored late at night, this is some interesting reading...
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Canine Sports Productions: Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete

Not to sound cold to a rescue dog, because I'm truly not (obviously), but no way am I going to give up something I've worked over a decade for, and spent more than most people spend on a decent car simply so a rescue will let me take a dog of unknown history home. Since I was in my early 20's, I worked toward (researching, saving, making contacts, training, etc.) importing my bitch. Not only that, but a spayed or neutered working dog is usually no longer a working dog. They would be nearly impossible to place if something happened and I had to find them homes, as police depts. wouldn't want them altered, and pet homes can't handle them, and working homes (Schutzhund, personal protection, SAR, etc.) don't want them altered, so where do they end up? Nowhere good, unfortunately. 

If I had to sell her, spayed, I might get $1000 IF I could even find her a suitable home. Intact, I could get $10,000 easily for her from a really super home. It's something I have been trying to fight with GSD rescues for a while. The problem is when you alter these dogs, you decrease potential good homes for them dramatically. It probably sounds strange from a pet perspective, but there have been a few highly accomplished working line dogs pts because they couldn't be working dogs and couldn't be pets. Rescues were afraid of the liability of adopting them out to pet homes, but pet homes were the only interested ones because the dogs were spayed or neutered. It's a lose-lose for the poor dogs. 

As an example, currently, I have a 6yr old spayed bitch who is a retired narcotics dog for the prison system. Here's a gov't dog that we all spent good tax money on, and for some reason, she was spayed. Whether a result of anesthesia (which occasionally affects the olafactory senses, making tracking & detection difficult), or resulting thyroid or other issues resulting from the spay, she no longer did her job and was almost put down because where does a prison dog go who doesn't work since they were altered? Tough dog to place. I have had probably a dozen good homes for her....if she were intact. Here she is (scroll down) if anyone would know anyone interested......Blank

I just don't see why their neutered rescue presents an issue with my intact GSDs, and I get frustrated because I would really love to give a needy dog a home! If you breed, you should rescue. And I do, though none of mine have ever ended up in a shelter or even rehomed (and I also offer a lifetime buyback guarantee), but I'd love to rescue a little one as well. 

I hope that makes some little bit of sense;-) Probably more than you cared to know, but I wanted to be clear so as not to come across the wrong way.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Do you breed German Shepherds? May I ask why you are interested in a Maltese?


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

Sorry, thought I said that. I want a little buddy to go everywhere with me 24/7...like my Chi used to. I finally lost him last year and have been on a quest ever since. I've found that he was definitely the exception...and as a rule, I don't like Chihuahuas, lol. In my training experience w/pet dogs, Maltese seem to be the sweetest (generalizing...) of the toys and most tolerant of children, less timid and aggressive and not as stubborn as some. Of course there are exceptions to all of those traits, but I seem to meet more sweet Maltese than any other toy breed. 

I just quit breeding working lines due to various circumstances incl. moving, health, and my son is at an age where I cannot spend every weekend on a training field...and if you can't do that, you really shouldn't be keeping working lines. I used to travel extensively to work them, but I'm much more homebound now and looking for something a bit more low-key and easier to transport;-)


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Your dogs are stunning ... I have a particular fondness for black GSDs.

While I don't think a rescue group should turn away any good home because they may own intact dogs, I'm not surprised that you have met with resistance. I think both sides need to look at the picture from the other side's perspective. There are any number of valid reasons why one may own an intact dog and it's not always because a person is irresponsible, doesn't want to spend the money, etc. The flip side of the coin, however, is the overwhelming number of dogs that end up in shelters or rescue groups as a direct result of irresponsible breeding. Additionally, I think there are very few people in the small dog world who have an indepth understanding of the working dog world. My first training sessions were with a schutzhund trainer. She was an awesome trainer who was just as good with my Maltese as she was with working dog breeds. So I read with fascination your description of each of your dogs ... impressive!! But I would bet that others unfamiliar with schutzhund and working dogs generally might read those same descriptions and have some major concerns. If you are commited to adopting dog from rescue, my advice would be to start by telling the rescue group that you are a breeder, what your background and experience is, why you want a small dog and how you plan to manage and balance two such different breed types. I find Maltese to be very smart and easily trained. Their biggest downfall, and honestly it would be my biggest concern in your situation, is their failure to understand that not every living being wants to be their playpal.

Good luck with your search.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Your dogs are beautiful! And, I had to laugh, because those adorable pups, at 6 weeks, are bigger than most Malts, lol.

Mary is a very reputable Maltese breeder, and has shared some knowledgeable insights. I can't offer anything like that, so I will simply say good luck, and thanks for doing your research first!

Also, I forgot to mention in my earlier post that Bonnie was trained to pads within two or three weeks. I find that Maltese are very smart, and love/live to please their parents.


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

Thanks, Mary! I appreciate your comments very much.

My issue with rescues is that they won't talk to me before I fill out an application. Once I fill it out, if I'm honest, they decline me and refuse any further correspondence. I'm hoping that Maltese rescue will be different! I hope I can get my foot in the door, talk with a reasonable, objective person who will see that a dog would be lucky to end up here. 

My track record and reputation speaks for itself if they would only bother to actually *check* my references. They hear "child" AND "intact dog" and it's CASE CLOSED-DECLINED. Grrrr............ 

It's just sad. I get calls all the time from people who tried to rescue and couldn't. Good people get turned down all the time. Some areas are worse than others; this area is notoriously bad for this kind of thing. I know in some areas, most rescues are really wonderful people who want what's best for the dog. I just don't think blanket rules are ever a good thing when dealing with living beings with unique needs. 

Anyway...I'm soooo hoping this will be different and I can find a great boy who needs me as much as I want him

I could go to any number of icky pet breeders who put no effort and thought into their breedings and walk out the door w/a puppy no questions asked, but I just can't do it! I'm too picky and I'm too philosophically opposed to those types of sellers. 

I have said it before, but I am really pleasantly shocked at how helpful this board is right off the bat. Holy cow...on the working dog forums, it's nowhere near this friendly to newbies. Can't tell you how nice it is to get helpful suggestions right from the start.


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

Thank you, Bonnie's Mommie. Yes, this last litter of GSDs were HUGE at 6weeks...I think one girl was even 12lbs at 4 weeks, which is unusually large. They were weaned later than most, for some reason. Maybe their mom is mellowing, lol. 

I have had a 6lb dog since college and I sooo miss that little guy. It's been about a year and a half since he died and I just haven't found the right new friend yet. I've honestly never had a Pit Bull or a GSD who was anything but gentle to my Chihuahua or puppies, but I've had my share of snippy fosters who would maul a Pit or GSD over a minor offense. I'm hoping to avoid some of that stereotypical "toy dog snippiness" with a Maltese. 

Thanks again for the compliments on my dogs. I admit I'm pretty proud of them.....<blush>


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Caleb's Mom said:


> Hi,
> 
> I joined the forum to ask for suggestions as to where I might find a healthy, well-bred pet Maltese. I am super picky about temperament. I would rescue, provided the dog had good references as to his temperament. I live near Cher-Chien, who I have contacted and am waiting to hear back from.
> 
> ...


In my life, I've come across a couple hundred of these dogs. They all came from the shelter, and owner surrenders.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

I just re-read your posts and ... grrrrrr ... you are going to hit another obstacle ... the age of your child. My first 3 Maltese were rescues, then I started doing rescue, and almost 10 years later I got into showing and then breeding. And I was one of those rescuers who would almost never place a Maltese in a home with a child under the age of 10. I love kids and I do believe that Maltese and children can be ideal housemates. However (yup, here's the flipside again), most of the dogs I took in were impulse purchase pet shop puppies whose owners had no clue how to train a dog and, worse, how to manage/supervise the interaction between child and dog. Sometimes a small dog's only defense against an ill-mannered child is it's mouth. The warning growls didn't work so let's try a quick nip. Kid cries, dog is dumped. Most dogs taken in don't come with much history. And not every owner who surrenders a dog will be truthful about temperament or bite history. I don't have kids so can't kid-test every dog, and don't carry liability insurance for dog bites. So the safest thing for me to do is place the dog in a home without kids. Absolutely this is unfair to the awesome owner with a young child but I don't want to get sued and lose my house because a child got bit by a dog that I placed.

You might want to think about contacting some breeders to see if they might have a dog being retired from their breeding program. Not all breeders have a "no kid" rule.


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## *Missy* (Oct 7, 2011)

Everybody has really great advice for you finding a little guy to love but I just wanted to say what sweet "little" dogs. They are beautiful!


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

I know, Mary. I know I'm just about forced to buy a puppy because I have so many dreaded possessions...big dogs, a little boy <oh my!> LOL

I try to stay positive and not get too mad, though most of the time I'm thinking..."are you KIDDING me?!" I know there are good rescues out there and keep hoping one will think outside the box and not make it harder to do a good deed than it is to drop $2k on a nice pup. lol

Does anyone ever post private rescues/owner surrenders anywhere? 

I mean, I have no problem buying a dog. I just don't need a puppy and would be happy with a rescue with the right personality as long as it was somewhat close to the standard (this is where the breeder in me rears its ugly head...I do appreciate a cute dog;-) ).


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

I will take a look through the links you've posted when I have some time to read through it all, thank you.

Your dogs are beautiful, I could never own a large breed dog but sure do admire them. 

I did want to mention that reputable Maltese show breeders require a spay/neuter contract to purchase a puppy from them in most, if not all cases (unless you are purchasing a show dog) so that may also be a hurdle for you, or at least a discussion you will need to address with any breeders you speak with. It may be that this could be negotiable, I'm not sure, but expect to get some resistance on the issue...which I'm sure you're used to!  That is, if you don't have plans on altering your Maltese.


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

Caleb's Mom, are you planning on neutering the Malt? I am just curious.


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## Madison's Mom (Dec 26, 2007)

Very interesting reading. I looked through your website and just wanted to say your dogs are beautiful. The pics with your baby are priceless!


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

Thank you all for the kind words. That baby isn't so very little anymore:-( I need to update! I adore my GSDs, but that world has gotten to me and I just want to chill for a while and enjoy the pets I have. When my son is older, maybe I'll get back into working the dogs and move back out to the country where I can do justice to multiple large, high-drive dogs. 

As to your question, if the Maltese is already neutered, oh well. Obviously, a rescue is going to be neutered. I would like one neutered older, which many rescues are, as they're intact when found. I would prefer he be intact but life isn't always perfect and I will do my best in other ways to keep him in optimum health. The "benefits" to neutering males are pretty non-existent, unless you neuter them sooo young that they're not even done maturing and don't develop adult masculine behaviors, and imo, that's somewhat cruel. I just won't alter my animals for reasons of human convenience. Training is the key, not removing body systems. Neutering increases the likelihood of prostate cancer, which is usually fatal, and decreases chances of testicular cancer, which, if developed, neutering can cure at that time, so it makes little sense. 

Females are different and I can understand why breeders would want a female, especially older, spayed. Most people don't know the signs of pyometra, which is a fast killer. Plus, if someone is going to be tempted to breed a dog they said they wouldn't, it's a lot easier to find a stud than it is to find a bitch whose owner is willing to do that. People breed females, not males, and people looking to be shady are almost always wanting females...and a bunch of them (usually....of course there are the idiots who put their pets up for stud, but a simple relationship prior to purchase should be able to weed those out). I don't blame breeders one bit for spaying retired bitches for their health and safety. 

There is a huge difference between dogs "left" intact due to laziness, being cheap, being backwoods hillbillies having aspirations of breeding subpar examples of the breed with no thought as to quality or being humane to the animal, and dogs conscientiously kept intact for health and performance reasons. IMO, it's up to the seller to tell the difference. Trust me, it's way more expensive and a bigger hassle to leave them intact! I pay an extra $150 "intact" fee for every rabies shot. That comes to about $200 per dog per year for a rabies shot. Do that math! Yikes. 

It won't take much poking around for a breeder or rescue to hear what a nazi I am about dogs' health and safety, so if they're willing to go outside of their usual comfort zone, their dog will get an awesome home. And quite honestly, if a breeder isn't willing to hear me out and keep an open mind an actually look into what I'm presenting and make an informed decision, that's not a person I want to be dealing with for the next 15+ years. 

Sorry for the long posts, but I don't feel like these questions are that simple to answer. I figure if a breeder reads my posts, I may as well provide as much info as possible. As a breeder, there's nothing I hate more than one line answers. If you can't put forth the effort to show me why I should sell you a dog, how do I know you'll put forth the effort to do right by that dog for its lifetime?


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

MaryH said:


> Your dogs are stunning ... I have a particular fondness for black GSDs.
> 
> While I don't think a rescue group should turn away any good home because they may own intact dogs, I'm not surprised that you have met with resistance. I think both sides need to look at the picture from the other side's perspective. There are any number of valid reasons why one may own an intact dog and it's not always because a person is irresponsible, doesn't want to spend the money, etc. The flip side of the coin, however, is the overwhelming number of dogs that end up in shelters or rescue groups as a direct result of irresponsible breeding. Additionally, I think there are very few people in the small dog world who have an indepth understanding of the working dog world. My first training sessions were with a schutzhund trainer. She was an awesome trainer who was just as good with my Maltese as she was with working dog breeds. So I read with fascination your description of each of your dogs ... impressive!! But I would bet that others unfamiliar with schutzhund and working dogs generally might read those same descriptions and have some major concerns. If you are commited to adopting dog from rescue, my advice would be to start by telling the rescue group that you are a breeder, what your background and experience is, why you want a small dog and how you plan to manage and balance two such different breed types. I find Maltese to be very smart and easily trained. Their biggest downfall, and honestly it would be my biggest concern in your situation, is their failure to understand that not every living being wants to be their playpal.
> 
> Good luck with your search.


 
Oh Mary, and I apologize to the OP, as I didn't read all the post, please forgive me, (I have a slight headache, so it's hard to absorb it all, but I do wish you the best.)

I just had to comment on Mary's fondness for German Shepards. The take my breath away, and as puppies oh my dear :wub:

Of course I have a Maltese heart, but their is plenty of room for all breeds and German Shepards, take up a great part of my heart.

Again, much luch to the OP. I tell you bringing in a new fur-baby, there is a great deal to consider.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Sounds to me like you are doing all the right things in your quest. Good luck.  sorry I can't offer any suggestions other than you have already had. 

The only thing I will say is that in your circumstances I honestly would recommend the Bichon over the Maltese. I have owned both and the bichon was way easier temperament wise to adapt and have with a child, while still having the happy go lucky fun big grin. The Maltese are more intensive, babylike I find.

P.S. your dogs are stunning :biggrin:


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Caleb's Mom said:


> .
> 
> Does anyone ever post private rescues/owner surrenders anywhere?
> 
> .





Caleb's Mom said:


> .
> 
> Sorry for the long posts, but I don't feel like these questions are that simple to answer. I figure if a breeder reads my posts, I may as well provide as much info as possible. .


Just wanted to clarify in case you haven't read our rules yet...puppy sales aren't allowed here so breeders won't sell you a puppy through SM. We aren't allowed to post puppies available from breeders here, either. The available rescues that are posted here are with non-profit rescue groups, not private owner surrenders.

The best way to find a reputable breeder is to contact those on the AMA list and go from there. They can recommend other breeders to you. Rescues do require you to fill out an application upfront to pre screen potential adopters as they are all staffed by volunteers whose valuable time is best spent on serious inquiries.

Finding either a rescue or reputable breeder who will trust you with a Maltese given your situation will be challenging, but it sounds like you are well aware of that. If it's meant to be, the right one will come along.


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

I had asked in my OP that someone who knows of something pass it along via PM. I'm sure breeders occasionally read the forums and maybe they would have a dog for me. I didn't read all the rules, but I assumed that there were no sales allowed, so I asked that they contact via PM. Is that allowed? I have already contacted the AMA breeders that I felt would have what I'm looking for and who seemed to have a philosphy that I would agree with, though I would really prefer an adult. 

Interesting about the Bichon...I have considered one. I just have not had personal good experience with them. I had one client with one that ended up being euth'd due to poor temperament. Do you think the Maltese are inherently that way (more babylike as you say) or do you think it's a combination of genetics and environment? Let's face it...many treat them like babies. If you coddle a dog too much and shield it like it's a porcelain figurine, they will take on those traits after a while. Any dog will respond to being treated a certain way and display behaviors that they may not have displayed in a different environment. 

I appreciate the advice and will look into Bichons again as well. I just miss my little lap dog. I know there are many Bichons out there who don't fit the standard in any way and those are the ones I'm used to seeing. I know a Bichon is not supposed to be as big as most I see out and about. I will check out some proper Bichons. Thanks for the tip.

For the record, this dog is not intended for my son, nor is he likely to show much interest in it besides a passing smile or an occasional pat. I don't need a playmate for him; I simply won't have a dog in the house who has genetic bad temperament with kids and who will snap at him if he's minding his own business.

You guys are great!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Our rules state "Under no circumstances is the direct selling of any animal allowed on SM" which includes privates messages. Breeders are not even allowed to post links to their websites in their signatures. Members may ask about a specific breeder that they are considering and those with firsthand experience only with the breeder in question may reply publicly or in a private message. 

On SM we don't act as puppy finders, but try to help people by educating them on how to find and evaluate Maltese breeders, suggesting rescue groups we support, etc. The AMA breeder's list link and the links to the rescue groups posted earlier are great places to start your search.


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

Ok. I didn't really see someone passing along "hey, I know so-and-so had an older dog..." as "selling", so I thought at PM would be fine.

Take care, guys, and thanks anyway!


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## Hatsumomo77 (Sep 11, 2011)

I have been told that Bichon's are a difficult breed to housebreak. Dunno if that's based on individual situations and how the dog is bred but from knowing someone who had one and from reading up on them when I was deciding what kind of dog to get I read that was like hmmmmmm.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Caleb's Mom said:


> Ok. I didn't really see someone passing along "hey, I know so-and-so had an older dog..." as "selling", so I thought at PM would be fine.
> 
> Take care, guys, and thanks anyway!


 
PLEASE don't be discouraged at all. Oh I was in your shoes, and scared to death, to do the wrong thing. You did not break any rules, I may have, not sure, Please stick around, PLEASE. It is more imporant that you acquire knowledge, than fall into the wrong hands. Many hugs.


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## RudyRoo (Jun 24, 2011)

While I am FAR less knowledgeable on this subject than most, I do have some personal experience with being turned away from rescues when I was trying to adopt. I tried for months to adopt a rescue. I put in no less than 20 applications and got turned down left and right without so much as an explanation. I totally understand that they had far more important things to do than explain things to me, but I was getting so discouraged. I didn't understand because I knew I would be a great dog owner, but for some reason my application kept getting overlooked or declined. I was finally able to talk to one of the rescue groups that declined me, and asked them flat out if there was something about my application that was problematic. The woman was so nice. She explained to me that I had a few things working against me: I live in an apartment, I am a graduate students (which they see as not having enough time for a dog), and I was to be a first time dog owner. I just knew in my heart that I would be an excellent pet owner but I had never even considered those things would work against me. 

So I decided that the only way I would be able to get their attention was to show my face with an application. It's easy to turn down an application that doesn't stand out in some way, but I knew it would be more difficult to turn me down once I met them and they could see my dedication. I started going to adoption events and when submitting applications I almost always added in an extra paragraph somewhere about myself and why I thought I would be a great pet parent. I didn't think my plan was working, because one day in March I got turned down again and I went home that night with such a heavy heart. BUT I woke up the next morning at 8 am to a phone call from a rescue group that received my application from a month prior asking if I was still interested in adopting the little Maltese puppy! Because it had been over a month since I submitted it, I just assumed that the little guy was already in his forever home. They told me that he had been with a foster family until they felt he was ready to be adopted (bc he was so young). They received over 300 applications on him, and MINE was the one that stood out because I added in a few extra paragraphs to the application pleading my case! I brought my 2 lb 14 week old maltese puppy home the next week. Rudy was the one I was waiting for, but I just had to jump many hoops to find a rescue group that saw my potential. 

Really long story, but the point is that it took me many many attempts before I found a rescue group that I fit with. I know your hurdles are different than mine, but they are hurdles nonetheless! You have obviously done your homework and are very knowledgeable. Try and find some way to add in that extra info in applications so that yours will stand out and not be immediately dismissed. I wish you the best of luck! 

(oh, and I agree...SM is a very friendly forum!)


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Not to hijack this thread or start a debate, but I don't see where asking for advice about where to look for a Maltese correlates in any way to selling, thus "breaking the rules". The OP asked for responses via PM. To the OP -- please don't run away and please don't get discouraged. You probably know as well as I that 99% of the time the right dog ends up in the right home ... and I feel certain that the right dog will end up in your home, too.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

MaryH said:


> Not to hijack this thread or start a debate, but I don't see where asking for advice about where to look for a Maltese correlates in any way to selling, thus "breaking the rules". The OP asked for responses via PM. To the OP -- please don't run away and please don't get discouraged. You probably know as well as I that 99% of the time the right dog ends up in the right home ... and I feel certain that the right dog will end up in your home, too.


 
Gosh, Mary, I completely agree with this. The worst feeling is feeling your way in the dark. Which I did for many years. Thanks to SM, I learned so much.


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

Caleb's Mom, Jennifer, we are a friendly forum and very concerned about Maltese. 
I visited your web site and see you have beautiful pups for sale. Your dogs are beautiful also and bred for working, such as guard dogs, police dogs, aggression is a part of that temperament as shown. An intact male or female (Maltese) in heat could cause big problems with hormones raging. A Malt would not fare very well in a bad situation. Maybe waiting until your child is older and other dogs are gone is a good idea. Stay with us and learn as we would love to have you be apart of Spoiled Maltese.
Marsha


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

I want to thank those who have been helpful and understand the basics of dog temperament and behavior (you know who you are;-). It's clear many of you are* not* stereotypical toy dog people and what a breath of fresh air you've been! I truly can't thank you enough!!!

Marsha, I must _respectfully_, but vehemently disagree with you. I cannot wrap my head around why someone (unless they are simply uninformed about working dogs and I am very willing to educate) would feel that way. I can't fathom why a Maltese is different than a Chihuahua (from my son's or dogs' perspective, who I will NOT be getting rid of...ever). I have _never_ had neutered dogs except my old rescue mutt. I feel if someone can't handle the whole dog, they needn't have a dog, much less a powerful one. Don't alter the dog to suit you; you step up to the plate and learn to handle that dog, imo. My point: I have managed up to a dozen (when I was partnered with my best friend) German and Dutch Shepherds, Belgian Maliniois, (and of course the trusty Pit Bulls who are just pets) at one time, and I have ALWAYS always had at least one (but usually 2) intact toys in the mix. To me, it's simple simple management and* common sense* and no more difficult than walking and chewing gum at the same time. It becomes engrained when you do it day in and day out for a decade. 

I also think you've fallen prey to a very dangerous stereotype regarding dog temperament. My dogs are among the most stable temperamented dogs (and well trained) you could ever hope to meet. They are exponentially LESS likely to do harm to ANY innocent creature, big or small, than 90% of the general canine population. This is my issue with rescues. They are largely run by well-meaning, but very uneducated volunteers who systematically decline good homes based on stereotypes. This has been discussed many many times on the working dog forums. It kind of feels like being a racecar driver who gets told you're not approved or able to drive a go-kart. It's a funny analogy, but frustrating in real life!!! You get put on the defensive over and over again for trying to do something good! And ultimately, it's the homeless dogs who lose. For every home turned down, do you think that person quits looking? No. They buy dog. And so the cycle continues. Opening rescue parameters (not to mention MINDS) is the key to helping homeless dogs find permanent homes. 

I assure you, any Maltese is far less likely to be injured in my home than in the care of the general population who looks prettier and better on a rescue application and I deeply resent the implication that I couldn't handle an intact Maltese, a little boy, and pair of German Shepherds. Heck, that sounds like retirement to me! 

My email is [email protected] if anyone would like to contact me off the forum. I think I'm gonna slink off into the dark before my blood pressure shoots any higher.


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

No Jennifer, don't go...I was not talking about Chihuahua's rather your GS's. I am speaking from experience. One example was on SM long ago...a member had Pit's and she was so sure they were friendly etc....her Malt did not make it! I have other examples and will share. Do stay, after your BP goes down, and share your info with us. I am not unfriendly, I am long experienced in dog rescue and fostering and have seen many bad "examples" of intact dog aggression and what you could encounter.
I have a good friend who's son is a policeman with a dog and I asked him at one time about the Malt match up...he said "Not on your life, rather your dog's life". Just sharing some info but maybe you know differently.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Caleb's Mom said:


> I want to thank those who have been helpful and understand the basics of dog temperament and behavior (you know who you are;-). It's clear many of you are* not* stereotypical toy dog people and what a breath of fresh air you've been! I truly can't thank you enough!!!
> 
> Marsha, I must _respectfully_, but vehemently disagree with you. I cannot wrap my head around why someone (unless they are simply uninformed about working dogs and I am very willing to educate) would feel that way. I can't fathom why a Maltese is different than a Chihuahua (from my son's or dogs' perspective, who I will NOT be getting rid of...ever). I have _never_ had neutered dogs except my old rescue mutt. I feel if someone can't handle the whole dog, they needn't have a dog, much less a powerful one. Don't alter the dog to suit you; you step up to the plate and learn to handle that dog, imo. My point: I have managed up to a dozen (when I was partnered with my best friend) German and Dutch Shepherds, Belgian Maliniois, (and of course the trusty Pit Bulls who are just pets) at one time, and I have ALWAYS always had at least one (but usually 2) intact toys in the mix. To me, it's simple simple management and* common sense* and no more difficult than walking and chewing gum at the same time. It becomes engrained when you do it day in and day out for a decade.
> 
> ...


First, I want to say, I would LOVE to see pics of your German Shepards :wub:
Also, and this is not sterotyping at all, but my home is a spay an neuter home. Always has and always will be. I could be wrong, and I am not disputing your judgment, I just feel that male dogs, as pet dogs, not breeding dogs, are best to be neutered. I just feel it is so much better for them. My Leo still tinkles like a girl, has no "desire" for girls, other than to give kisses, and he remains a baby. Just like my girls. From the day I know their birthday, I starting counting the months, till I can get them spayed or neutered.

But again, if you wish, Oh how I would love to see your German Shepards.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

theboyz said:


> Caleb's Mom, Jennifer, we are a friendly forum and very concerned about Maltese.
> I visited your web site and see you have beautiful pups for sale. Your dogs are beautiful also and bred for working, such as guard dogs, police dogs, aggression is a part of that temperament as shown. An intact male or female (Maltese) in heat could cause big problems with hormones raging. A Malt would not fare very well in a bad situation. Maybe waiting until your child is older and other dogs are gone is a good idea. Stay with us and learn as we would love to have you be apart of Spoiled Maltese.
> Marsha


Thank you, Marsha. 

I have been involved in rescue, for the better part of my life. I will not let any foster go without spay/neuter. I also, will not let a dog go to a home with intact dogs. Just how it is.

In looking at applications, it's often tough to decide, so we weed out. Without knowing the family, personally, and how the "day to day" stuff goes, we simply can't risk it. Not when I've told the dog, "you'll never have to worry again".

I had one applicant, with my local rescue, lie. She said she did not have any dogs. The home visit was done, it was all great, so we moved forward. Doggie was adopted, all was well, until her Pit attacked my baby. Did not kill her, but took an eye out. Man, I felt like a knife went through my heart. 

Another gal called me. She has a GS, cute as pie. He was simply playing with her malt, stepped on her back, and now she is in a doggie wheelchair. She wanted to surrender her to me, as it was too much for her. She had to express her poop out twice a day. Little Muffit couldn't even poop on her own. She was put down.

I could tell a hundred stories. 

Rescues spend alot of volunteered time, and effort, to save these wee ones. I will stick to my guns. I will stick to my promise.

I don't know you, and you don't know me. But I wish you the best. Please do not get frustrated with rescues. We care about the dogs. That's the bottom line.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Of course Deb, above is right, but I still would love to see your German Shepards


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## RudyRoo (Jun 24, 2011)

As you can imagine Caleb'sMom, we Maltese owners have a strong urge to protect our breed in the same way that you do your beloved GS's. I've heard of successful big dog/small dog pairings, and I've heard of the tragedies. Rescuers bear the weight of hearing about the tragedies more than the lay person though, and because of that I can understand why they would be cautious or prohibitive. There is room on this forum for a difference of opinion though! Especially when both sides are coming at the issue from an educated viewpoint. I fully support your efforts to find the perfect little buddy that fits with your lifestyle! I do hope that you stick around and know that our only goal here is to spoil, share, educate, and advise (as was your first impression of us). 




3Maltmom said:


> Please do not get frustrated with rescues. *We care about the dogs. That's the bottom line.*


No arguing with that! At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if the humans get their feelings hurt or even if they are frustrated, because it is all about the dogs! These precious little creatures.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

With all due respect to the OP, you seem to know GSDs and other working dogs quite well. My sister has had several GS dogs. She has always been very responsible with her GSDs. Her last one had a great temperament, was smart, and well-trained. The dog was great around other people and well-socialized unless the dog perceived that someone was "threatening" my sister. One day my sister was having an argument with her then teenage son, and suddenly without warning, her dog grabbed her son by the throat and took him to the floor in an instant. Fortunately, my sister was able to control her dog before serious injury could occur. A Maltese is very different from a working dog. It is a very sweet tempered, sensitive, affectionate, high-maintenance little lap dog. Yes, it really is very much like a human infant/toddler and this has nothing to do with how the Malt is trained. They were bred to be companion/lap dogs and they love to be adored and held more than anything. Not all toy breeds are like this. I think the Maltese is unique. After reading all of your posts, I think it would be wise to look at several other toy breeds that may be more suitable for you. If you are truly interested in having a Maltese, please stick around and learn more about them and get to know us. This is a great forum with numerous resources and a wonderful group of people willing to help.:blush:


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Maltese are sweet but rather demanding in time and attention. With all you have going on, including breeding, I'm not sure a Maltese is what you are looking for.
Not to add more gloomy stories here, but I sold a Maltese to a woman years ago
with a sweet GSD. They got along famously until one day when the family was 
in the backyard barbecueing and the two dogs were running around enjoying the
outdoors. They were chasing one another around the bend, over and over, until the Maltese changed it's direction unexpectedly. The GSD ran smack into him killing him.
Of course, it was an accident, but much more likely to be severe with such size differences. Just food for thought......
I cannot agree with you on spay/neuter. I'll leave it at that.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Cosy said:


> Maltese are sweet but rather demanding in time and attention. With all you have going on, including breeding, I'm not sure a Maltese is what you are looking for.
> Not to add more gloomy stories here, but I sold a Maltese to a woman years ago
> with a sweet GSD. They got along famously until one day when the family was
> in the backyard barbecueing and the two dogs were running around enjoying the
> ...


Oh Brit, oh no . That's why, as much as my babies LOVE larger breeds, there will always be a fence in between them. The body type of a smaller breed and a larger breed, there is just too much difference. My kids best friend is Harley. He must be part Collie and Rottie, he is beautiful, but they can only say hello, with the fence between them, under my supervion. Not that Harley would ever intentionally hurt them, never, but accidents due happen.

I am a huge advocate of spay an neutuer for pet people. HUGE.

I still would love to see pics of your German Shepards, oh how I love them.


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## Caleb's Mom (Nov 25, 2011)

I had a final response I was quite proud of, but my hazardous child lost it. Darn it. 

There are breeders who lurk here who understand that it's no great feat to keep your large dogs from killing your small ones and I have had a couple really great prospects emailed to me tonight. There are many like-minded people out there...they're just afraid to post or don't bother. I hate hearing about little dogs getting killed...but with all due respect to the owners who must be devastated........seriously???! Who allows a toy dog to "play" with a large dog??? Common sense and education would sure go a lot farther to protecting animals than simply attempting to restrict access. That has never worked...think breed bans and Prohibition. My Chi and my oldest GSD despised each other. No big deal. Keep them away from each other. Really easy. I did it for over a decade. 

At any rate, I would never lie to a rescue. That implies I'm doing something wrong and I know it, and on the contrary, dogs are one subject where I would put my experience and capability up against just about anyone's. I refuse to cover up facts to appease well-meaning but undereducated or inexperienced people when I could just as easily try to educate and open their minds. Everyone starts out as a pet owner. Most rescuers are kind-hearted pet owners with little experience in other venues with differing perspectives. Your views change drastically as your situation changes and your experiences grow. When you know better, you do better. 

I am not going to answer every statement made or question asked, but will say generally, not to anyone in particular, it's quite clear from a few responses that my posts were either not read (and I know they're long) or were misunderstood. It's like a few key words jumped out, set off alarm bells (child, GSD, intact (lol) etc.) and the context wasn't read at all. For those who want to see my dogs, they're on my website, which is in a couple posts. Google my name or my kennel name. Do a youtube search. They're not hard to find. I won't waste bandwith here on them because I'm sure the majority doesn't care. 

For those who mentioned breeding, I thought I was pretty clear that I am retiring from breeding for a while. I'm home all the time and down to 2 mature GSDs, so I'm not really sure what's meant by waiting until I have "less going on." I feel like that's one step above a coma compared to what I'm used to. 

I didn't come here to have people agree with me, so that doesn't bother me in the least. I came here to get names of who would have a quality Maltese, and I got them and will forever be grateful. I may even post back when I get the little guy. 

Take care, all!


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Regarding the Bichon again. I have only seen ones that had a temperament like mine. She never knew a stranger, was loving and happy with the whole family, cats, other dogs, and was really smart and happy. She caused many of my friends and relatives after meeting her to get one also. But like everything else you do need to evaluate the breeder and her stock and the individuals in the litter to get the temperament you are looking for. The Bichon is more sturdy. My own was a girl and weighed 15lbs her whole adult life while being free fed. I miss her so :crying: I have also owned an Irish Setter and a Poodle cross. 

Now when it comes to the Maltese I say that they are more babylike because they really are. I am not a small dog syndrome type of person, my dogs do not sleep on the bed with me etc. I expect proper behaviour from them and do train them to sit for food etc etc. BUT... they are little and fragile. they really do need constant protection. We have seen so many things happen to them, either first hand or a friend, usually from a very simple accident. A adult or child just coming down the stairs quickly and stepping on them, tripping and falling on them, sitting down and not seeing them snuggled in a cover, being so small that they can't do stairs of couches, a friendly bat or an awkward step from another dog can kill a maltese, they don't mean it of course, but it can honestly really happen. Having now had two Maltese after having other dogs, I would never recommend one in your situation, it would be so stressful, constantly worrying and telling everyone and everything to be careful. I and my husband are home all the time with my two, and even we keep reminding each other "careful, Penny is just at the edge under the couch" etc. etc. As far as being cuddly babies, yes they are, but so is the Bichon. My little Bichon followed me everywhere and as soon as I sat down she was there beside me or on me, just like my Maltese. :wub: :wub: But I never had any concerns about my Bichon in regard to getting hurt at all. 

Oddly just this week I had a contractor at my apt. who said he had a 6lb Maltese. He said that it was really wracking up medical bills all because he handed his dog to his Father and the dog wriggled a tad and his Dad dropped her....... she now has permanent back problems that requires constant physio and chiro. and medication, also got some neurological damage. They really can be that delicate.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

silverhaven said:


> Regarding the Bichon again. I have only seen ones that had a temperament like mine. She never knew a stranger, was loving and happy with the whole family, cats, other dogs, and was really smart and happy. She caused many of my friends and relatives after meeting her to get one also. But like everything else you do need to evaluate the breeder and her stock and the individuals in the litter to get the temperament you are looking for. The Bichon is more sturdy. My own was a girl and weighed 15lbs her whole adult life while being free fed. I miss her so :crying: I have also owned an Irish Setter and a Poodle cross.
> 
> Now when it comes to the Maltese I say that they are more babylike because they really are. I am not a small dog syndrome type of person, my dogs do not sleep on the bed with me etc. I expect proper behaviour from them and do train them to sit for food etc etc. BUT... they are little and fragile. they really do need constant protection. We have seen so many things happen to them, either first hand or a friend, usually from a very simple accident. A adult or child just coming down the stairs quickly and stepping on them, tripping and falling on them, sitting down and not seeing them snuggled in a cover, being so small that they can't do stairs of couches, a friendly bat or an awkward step from another dog can kill a maltese, they don't mean it of course, but it can honestly really happen. Having now had two Maltese after having other dogs, I would never recommend one in your situation, it would be so stressful, constantly worrying and telling everyone and everything to be careful. I and my husband are home all the time with my two, and even we keep reminding each other "careful, Penny is just at the edge under the couch" etc. etc. As far as being cuddly babies, yes they are, but so is the Bichon. My little Bichon followed me everywhere and as soon as I sat down she was there beside me or on me, just like my Maltese. :wub: :wub: But I never had any concerns about my Bichon in regard to getting hurt at all.
> 
> Oddly just this week I had a contractor at my apt. who said he had a 6lb Maltese. He said that it was really wracking up medical bills all because he handed his dog to his Father and the dog wriggled a tad and his Dad dropped her....... she now has permanent back problems that requires constant physio and chiro. and medication, also got some neurological damage. They really can be that delicate.


Oh how I agree Bichons, can be the most loving pets. Just adore them.

To the OP, I really did try and find your website, with the German Shepards, but could not fine it .

You truly can't fault the resuces or foster parents, sometimes these babies have been through so much.

I do trust your judgement, and all it would take, is a heart to heart with a foster parent, a home visit, or a heart to heart with a reputable breeder.

Sorry, but I do beleive strongly in spay and neutering, I just think it makes for a much happier pet.

Boy I would love to see your GS babies, I do just adore them.

Please don't get on the defensive, as much as you love and care for your fur-babies, it's no different than Maltese.

I actually pushed a doctor because he made my baby cry :blush:, thank goodness he laughed at my reaction, it's just a passionite issue.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

allheart said:


> Oh how I agree Bichons, can be the most loving pets. Just adore them.
> 
> To the OP, I really did try and find your website, with the German Shepards, but could not fine it .


Post number 12 has a link  it says blank.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

silverhaven said:


> Post number 12 has a link  it says blank.


 
Opppps :blink:, thanks. Boy I do love GS, just alergic and too big of poo :w00t:

(Sorry, shouldn't have said that, but I pad train my kids, due to weather, and if they ever had an operation or anything) but I do love GS.


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

3Maltmom said:


> Thank you, Marsha.
> 
> I have been involved in rescue, for the better part of my life. I will not let any foster go without spay/neuter. I also, will not let a dog go to a home with intact dogs. Just how it is.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:

Oh, and about Bichons--I've never met one that wasn't an angel! I think they are _generally_ much more easy-going and tolerant of children.


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