# Divapup



## oliversmom (Feb 11, 2004)

Hi,
Has anyone here have personal experience of purchasing a dog from Divapup? If so, could you share your experience ... good or bad? 
Thanks.


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## docnascar (Feb 24, 2004)

I would not buy from them.

http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/cgi-bin...finalrecord=14/

http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/cgi-bin...finalrecord=14/

http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/cgi-bin...finalrecord=14/

There's more out there if you research them. They have a bad name with a lot of people on the internet community.


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2004)

Divapup made it to malteseonly today...big mess. Lots of posts from Elizabeth (I believe the owner of Divapup) defending herself and the puppies she sales. I have never had any dealings with her myself but alot of people certainly had a lot to say.
I thought we went aloud to make posts on malteseonly about breeders and people??? I have been banned from that website, not because of any posts there but because I post here. I will probably be banned again because of this post.


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## docnascar (Feb 24, 2004)

Ha Ha, they kicked me off too. Who cares, I can find information elsewhere!!!!


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## kit001 (Jul 6, 2003)

> I have been banned from that website, not because of any posts there but because I post here.[/B]


Anyone ban "Fluffy's Mom" from MO after she came over here and posted? Bet not......

Typical

What I get a kick out of is their disclaimer about FREEDOM OF SPEECH...you don't even want to know what i am thiking! lol


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)

I know this is an old post, but I just have to say that I was really considering buy from that site. I am so thankful that I didn't. It seemed impressive, but the more I looked at the site and read about the workings of this place, hmmm...something didn't set right. I guess because she had soooooo many dogs to offer. I don't mean the different breeds, I realize that those are from other breeders, but I mean all the Maltese. It just seemed that the list was endless. Were all those puppies from her Malt or from other breeder's Malts as well? That little voice in my head told me to beware...(of course I usually ignore it and end up in trouble







).


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## Sanvean (May 17, 2004)

The most appalling thing about Divapup are her PRICES! She was asking $5,000 for a 2-pound, 14-week Maltese pup. He's going to grow up to be a perfectly average size Maltese! And you KNOW he's from a mill.

You could get a show-quality pup from a top-notch breeder for less than that.

OK, that's not the MOST appalling thing...that would be the fact that her pups clearly come from mills. And she says she "personally visits each breeder" when a woman on the nopuppymills.com forum said that Divapup called her up to see if she would be breeding her dog, and if so, could she sell the pups? When she had never even met this woman!


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by docnascar_@Mar 15 2004, 12:15 PM
> *I would not buy from them.
> 
> http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/cgi-bin...finalrecord=14/
> ...


*



Hi I'm new here and I hope I'm posting in the right place*[/QUOTE]


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by docnascar_@Mar 15 2004, 12:15 PM
> *I would not buy from them.
> 
> http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/cgi-bin...finalrecord=14/
> ...


*



Hi I'm new here and I hope I'm posting in the right place*[/QUOTE]


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

do u have a question about this breeder?


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Feb 15 2005, 06:39 PM
> *do u have a question about this breeder?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35692*


[/QUOTE]



This is my first time in a forum and I wasn't sure if I was doing it right, did it go thru, my Maltese are a lot smarter than me


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

if u dont want to include a quote use the add reply button at the very bottom.


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by oliversmom_@Mar 15 2004, 11:57 AM
> *Hi,
> Has anyone here have personal experience of purchasing a dog from Divapup?  If so, could you share your experience ... good or bad?
> Thanks.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=1461*


[/QUOTE]



I was contacted from them too


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by maria48+Feb 15 2005, 06:44 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
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I was contacted from them too
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35696
[/B][/QUOTE]


Like this, just hit reply???


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by kit001_@Mar 17 2004, 01:00 PM
> *QUOTE*


*



I have been banned from that website, not because of any posts there but because I post here.

Click to expand...

*Anyone ban "Fluffy's Mom" from MO after she came over here and posted? Bet not......

Typical

What I get a kick out of is their disclaimer about FREEDOM OF SPEECH...you don't even want to know what i am thiking! lol
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=1467
[/B][/QUOTE]


A few "ex" breeders of hers contacted me, I don't even know how they got my email addy, but it seems to be a habit of hers to send upfront money to select breeders to "buy up" the cheapest purebreds they can find...when she contacted me she never asked how i keep my dogs (22 of them) or my breeding ethics, or my vet, or nothing, just money


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

hit the "addreply" button at the very bottom of the page..not the reply button under each persons reply..unless u want to quote them


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

Thanks! I feel like a real fool now


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

Don't feel bad. I'm still having trouble with using quotes too.


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

how do you get your babies pics up on the left like that, that's cool


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

go to my controls at the top of the screen...then on the left a menu will appear...then go to change avatar...and upload a pic! dont worry about not knowing how to post..u actually mastered quoting wich is something others have trouble with


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by maria48_@Feb 15 2005, 07:00 PM
> *how do you get your babies pics up on the left like that, that's cool
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35706*


[/QUOTE]


I think I did it right


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

o what cute little ones! yes u did it!


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

Thank you!!! On the right is my "Twinkie", her mom is Chunkymonkey, and her aunt is Cuppycake, and her grandmother just passed away, my Katey Kate


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

what cute names! you should introduce urself to everyone in the introduction thread!


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

lol... thanks, I sleep with 10 of them on my bed...my hubby moved out to the spare after babie number 5 came to sleep with us....


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

Is that another place to go to???? I think I'm not doin things right...to see replies I keep checking my email...is that how you do it?


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

if u go to the maltese discussion forum home at the top left it will take u to all the topics. if u want to see the most recent posts, there is a link at the top right...it says view new posts. your email wont tell u if there is a reply...unless there is a setting for that. i post to much to have that happen







if u refresh it will also tell u when someone replies.


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

thanks again!!! I was getting tired of going back and forth


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

now I'm hunting for the introduction thread lol


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

heres the link http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showforum=3 just start a new topic at the top


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

there I did it, introduced myself and my perfect little doggie tribe...lol I think i did it right


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

yes u did!


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

man, I'm really surprised!!!!


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

You have beautiful photo's of the only perfect dog in the whole world...I love my Maltese, I should send you a pic of Spicy Micey, she's laughing ALL the time, really funny to see her, she looks kinda stupid doing it but it's funny!!!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

thanks! u can also personal msg a person by clicking the PM button under their name.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Maria, you'll have to post photos of all your babies in the Gallery. Click on "Gallery" at the top to see how it is set up. Then you can go to "My Controls" and Click on "Your Albums" and you can download your photos.....


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## Chelsey (Dec 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Feb 15 2005, 08:54 PM
> *thanks! u can also personal msg a person by clicking the PM button under their name.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35737*


[/QUOTE]

LadyMontava you should be Technical Support, you help so many peoplel inculding me


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Chelsey+Feb 15 2005, 10:29 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LadyMontava you should be Technical Support, you help so many peoplel inculding me








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35774
[/B][/QUOTE]
when im off from school its easy to help..but once i get back to clinics..u guys might never see me


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## ilove_d&m (Apr 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava+Feb 15 2005, 11:42 PM-->
> 
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*
*[/QUOTE]
when im off from school its easy to help..but once i get back to clinics..u guys might never see me








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35788
[/B][/QUOTE]


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

yeah i have a question about this breeder.... I see they have many types of breeds... where do they get their pups from??? I also see a few smaller malteses... a small male is mated with a bigger female.. kinda what they did to create kodie... making him very tiny. ummm.... is this a responsible breeder? This is a close breeder that i can drive to in the future... so I would like to know everyones opinions.... cause if there is a possiblity of a gettin another pup around kodie's size that is healthy... i would do that...

Also.. i was lookin around the site and they also sell all the hotest trendest items! JUICY bags included... interesting... anyone buy anything from this person?


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

I've heard a lot of bad things about Diva Pup. There are complaints of them all over the internet. I think it is a network of breeders that sell through Diva Pup. I really don't recommend them based on my research of them. They really just try to make money on the teenies with no regard for the health of the dogs. I think their real mission is just to breed tiny dogs. I don't think it would be in your interest to buy from them. When it is time for you to get Kodie a little brother or sister, I would stick with the known and reputable breeders and tell them about Kodie and his size, because I think they would be happy to see a smaller pup go home with you. Right now in my search for another malt, the breeders have been really trying to make a good match with Peanut's size and personality.


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

Just my two cents worth...they probably sell fake Juicy bags. Why not look at some of the other close by breeders who are excellent? Chrisman Maltese is in eastern PA, and Deanne got her Xena (retired dog) from a breeder in Northern NJ. Plus there are a few on the AMA list. Don't go to Diva Pup. They sell dogs mostly from Amish farms (puppy mills).


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## Pippinsmom (Nov 29, 2004)

Divapup is a puppy broker for a network of breeders. I tried inquiring there once but I told them I wanted to see a pedigree and get some background on the puppy's parents before I would talk to them further...needless to say I never got anything. Not that I was that interested in the puppy...I just wanted to see if they would be upfront and forthcoming with the information and put me in touch with the actual breeder of the puppy. I would stay FAR AWAY from them.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Some of the worst puppy mills are in Lancaster County. You don't want a puppy from the Amish mills.

http://www.charityadvantage.com/njcapsa/Th...hConnection.asp


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kodie_@Mar 2 2005, 11:51 AM
> *yeah i have a question about this breeder.... I see they have many types of breeds... where do they get their pups from???  I also see a few smaller malteses... a small male is mated with a bigger female.. kinda what they did to create kodie... making him very tiny.  ummm.... is this a responsible breeder?  This is a close breeder that i can drive to in the future... so I would like to know everyones opinions.... cause if there is a possiblity of a gettin another pup around kodie's size that is healthy... i would do that...
> 
> Also.. i was lookin around the site and they also sell all the hotest trendest items!  JUICY bags included... interesting... anyone buy anything from this person?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=39249*


[/QUOTE]

Of course the Juicy bags are fake. 

They are not a breeder.. they are a network of puppy mills. Forget you ever heard the name. Most top breeders have dogs in the 4-pound range from time to time. I ran across several from the top-tier breeders during my search.


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

OK, being the snoopy person that I am, I called Diva Shop and inquired about their Juicy bags. I was told that they are in the process of confirming whether or not the bags are real...that they wrote a letter to their supplier to verify that they are authentic. The same supplier sold them the LV replica that they have listed. What a crock! It doesn't make sense that a distributor would have both genuine and fake articles! I think that they are ripping people off on their internet sales, but they are smart enough to tell people over the phone (they claim they record calls) that they don't know and are waiting for verification. I am going to call the NJ Dept. Of Consumer Affairs and let them know what's going on. I know it is illegal to sell these handbags if they are fakes and not identified as such.

Edit: I wonder if the other designer bags they have....Bali and PuchiBag...are fakes too. There are a lot of them on e-bay too.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

Well after reading all of your responses... This is why i'm so thankful to have a place to ask questions...
I kinda thought it was some kind of puppy mill... come on now... that many types of breeds...
I knew their store is too good to be true! Think about it! They are probably rich people... selling bags that are fake... selling MANY over priced puppies...

saltymalty... I saw on the Chrisman Maltese web site that they have pictures of their dogs on MO... they probably wont wanna sell a pup to me... since i got kicked off that web site


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)

Kodie's Mom--

You seem to take it very personally that you got kicked off MO, please don't--they are just rude over there and you are better off here!
















As far as Chrisman, I don't think that you being kicked off MO would have any effect on whether or not they sell you a pup and if it did, then good to know that so you don't do business with people like that. JMO


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kodie_@Mar 2 2005, 01:17 PM
> *Well after reading all of your responses... This is why i'm so thankful to have a place to ask questions...
> I kinda thought it was some kind of puppy mill... come on now... that many types of breeds...
> I knew their store is too good to be true!  Think about it!  They are probably rich people... selling bags that are fake... selling MANY over priced puppies...
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Isn't your money as green as anyone else's? Besides, how would they ever know?


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## Tyler's Sis (Feb 27, 2005)

They're too expensive! Do puppyfind.com instead. Way more for way less! I got Tyler there! He was the cutest so I bought him for 1000.


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I can't imagine that Chrisman will ask you anything about the forums that you participate in. Don't worry about that!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Kodie, Kodie, Kodie.....now think rationally... can you imagine them saying, "Well, you broke the user agreement on MO... we can't sell you a puppy!!!"







No way! Don't give it a second thought.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

I had someone forward me a Puppyfind ad last month where Christman was advertising a pup on the site for $3000. I checked it out, and yes, they were advertising there too.


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by saltymalty_@Mar 2 2005, 12:59 PM
> *OK, being the snoopy person that I am, I called Diva Shop and inquired about their Juicy bags.  I was told that they are in the process of confirming whether or not the bags are real...that they wrote a letter to their supplier to verify that they are authentic.  The same supplier sold them the LV replica that they have listed.  What a crock!  It doesn't make sense that a distributor would have both genuine and fake articles!  I think that they are ripping people off on their internet sales, but they are smart enough to tell people over the phone (they claim they record calls) that they don't know and are waiting for verification.  I am going to call the NJ Dept. Of Consumer Affairs and let them know what's going on.  I know it is illegal to sell these handbags if they are fakes and not identified as such.
> 
> Edit:  I wonder if the other designer bags they have....Bali and PuchiBag...are fakes too.  There are a lot of them on e-bay too.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=39275*


[/QUOTE]



If the bags are from Divapup...you can bet they are A FAKE....very very very unhappy with "Those people"


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

Oh Yeah, here's another unhappy ex-breeder of Divapup...scroll down a bit to the bottom of the page, then go to the divapup Yorkie page and you'll see who she's referring to... LOL http://www.ohpuppylove.com/


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maria48_@Mar 3 2005, 05:58 AM
> *Oh Yeah, here's another unhappy ex-breeder of Divapup...scroll down a bit to the bottom of the page, then go to the divapup Yorkie page and you'll see who she's referring to... LOL  http://www.ohpuppylove.com/
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=39487*


[/QUOTE]


That is an awesome website!!! She has some beautiful dogs...she must be VERY busy is all I can say!







She seems on the up-and-up and VERY upset that her pictures were stolen! I wish she wasn't so far away! I would love to go see her set-up..and her pups.


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Mar 3 2005, 07:13 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
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That is an awesome website!!! She has some beautiful dogs...she must be VERY busy is all I can say!







She seems on the up-and-up and VERY upset that her pictures were stolen! I wish she wasn't so far away! I would love to go see her set-up..and her pups. 
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=39490
[/B][/QUOTE]



I'm going to be doing the very same thing on my website if my pics of MY Maltese aren't removed this week.... where there is smoke there's fire....quite a few ex-diva breeders contacted me and I didn't believe their stories until I became one of them....here's my website... http://www.puppypuddles.com


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maria48+Mar 3 2005, 07:46 AM-->
> 
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*
*[/QUOTE]



I'm going to be doing the very same thing on my website if my pics of MY Maltese aren't removed this week.... where there is smoke there's fire....quite a few ex-diva breeders contacted me and I didn't believe their stories until I became one of them....here's my website... http://www.puppypuddles.com
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=39497
[/B][/QUOTE]

Hi, just curious.... On your site..... how do you interview prospective owners? It seems like just anyone can pay the $25 reservation fee, but maybe I am mis-reading.

Regarding protecting your photos, I've seen some sites where when you right click on a photo there will be a message saying they are "protected" and "no right clicking is allowed".... maybe you can do something like that ??


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

When someone contacts me by email....I tell them they must call me first, but I don't warn them of the oncoming interview... so I ask questions and send the conversation to past pets and start quizzing them on what happened to the pets they've had in the past, blah blah...if they tell me about things that caused them to give up the pets or something like that, then the red flag is up and I tell them politely that my reservation list is full or some other BS and "don't call me, I'll call you", and then I never call back. If I warn people on my site about the interview, they might think about things to say, that's why I don't do it. You get a more honest response if they don't have the time to think about what to say.
About the right clicking...ANY image can be stolen with a no right click...go to any page with a right click protect, then hold your left mouse button down and drag it up, see what happens? It puts the image in it's own window and then you can save it from there lol...nope, I'm watermarking all my images and THAT can't be removed lol


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maria48_@Mar 3 2005, 08:07 AM
> *When someone contacts me by email....I tell them they must call me first, but I don't warn them of the oncoming interview... so I ask questions and send the conversation to past pets and start quizzing them on what happened to the pets they've had in the past, blah blah...if they tell me about things that caused them to give up the pets or something like that, then the red flag is up and I tell them politely that my reservation list is full or some other BS and "don't call me, I'll call you", and then I never call back. If I warn people on my site about the interview, they might think about things to say, that's why I don't do it. You get a more honest response if they don't have the time to think about what to say.
> About the right clicking...ANY image can be stolen with a  no right click...go to any page with a right click protect, then hold your left mouse button down and drag it up, see what happens? It puts the image in it's own window and then you can save it from there lol...nope, I'm watermarking all my images and THAT can't be removed lol
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=39502*


[/QUOTE]

Thank you for sharing your "technique" on interviewing. I can't tell you how interesting it is to hear things from the breeder's side. I bet you all get calls from all sorts of weirdos out there.... I know it is not easy and I can see now why you all prefer to talk by phone as you can judge people much more easily than from an e-mail.

Oh... I didn't know that about photos being dragged.... thanks for the info on that!


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

Weirdos is putting it politely, then also I get a lot of breeders just wasting my time, that's also why i post the pups on the site...breeders (some of them, not all) are among the most vicious cutthroat people you will ever want to meet.


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## Sisses Momma (Dec 29, 2004)

"SMALLER IS BETTER!!! 
Although teacups and micromini's are not within AKC standards,and we have never made these claims, there is a HUGE demand and that is why most breeders who do raise them have a VERY VERY LONG wait list for the "teacups".

We breed specifically for tinies and teacup babies. Although we regularly receive our share of " love letters" bashing us for breeding teacups, we will continue with each breeding to try and produce the tiniest Yorkies we can. Our teacups never leave our home before three months of age. Let the other breeders keep their "MOOSE" sized dogs, we like TINIES and so do the majority of people! "


After visiting your website and reading what you had there, I have a question in regards to the term "teacup". It has been my understanding that there was no such type of dog as a "teacup". That these dogs are crossbred/interbred to produce the smallest dogs possible. Isn't this not a responsible breeding technique? I understand that all this cross/interbreeding is quite harmful to the genetics of the breeds involved and ultimately end up producing inferior puppies with many many health issues.....Our Maltese puppy is looking to go over "standard", but I certainly do not consider her a "moose" at less than 4 pounds.......I personally am glad Sis is going to be heavier. Because if she ever got sick she would have some weight behind her to fall back on. I can't imagine having a dog that was 2 lbs, one health issue and they would be dead.

Please understand that I am a novice Maltese owner, but consider myself smart enough to realize that breeding over and over again to produce "the tiniest" dogs is not the ideal thing to be doing. I certainly in no way mean any disrespect, I guess I just need someone to let me know their opinion on this issue. Am I wrong in my thinking?? Not trying to open a can of worms, just trying to understand....


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

i've mentioned before... kodie's sister was only 1lb at 6 months old... she DIED. The other pup did not survive even the birth it was so small.





















-_- Sorry, i just have a bad taste about the demand for totally small pups. A maltese is NOT a Chihuahua.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sisses Momma_@Mar 3 2005, 10:24 AM
> *"SMALLER IS BETTER!!!
> Although teacups and micromini's are not within AKC standards,and we have never made these claims, there is a HUGE demand and that is why most breeders who do raise them have a VERY VERY LONG wait list for the "teacups".
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


I agree. Trying to produce puppies that will mature at an adult weight less than the breed standard simply because there is a demand for them (therefore more profitable) does not fit with my defination of a responsible breeder in my book either. First and foremost, a breeder should strive for the breed standard.

Anyone who breeds "designer dogs" like Morkies also doesn't fit my definition of a responsible breeder, either, for that matter.


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom+Mar 3 2005, 11:33 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
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I agree. Trying to produce puppies that will mature at an adult weight less than the breed standard simply because there is a demand for them (therefore more profitable) does not fit with my defination of a responsible breeder in my book either. First and foremost, a breeder should strive for the breed standard.

Anyone who breeds "designer dogs" like Morkies also doesn't fit my definition of a responsible breeder, either, for that matter.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=39559
[/B][/QUOTE]


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by maria48+Mar 3 2005, 12:08 PM-->
> 
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*
*[/QUOTE]
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=39576
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Thanks for the compliment, that's only your opinion


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## Deanne3899 (Jan 8, 2005)

I just wanted to toss out there that I'm thankful for DivaPup!








I saw that site & loved the pups, but did my research! No Way! Would I buy a pup off the Internet, esp. from DivaPup. There are no guarentees that you'll be getting the pup pictured or anything else. A sad, sad thing. I am on Bloomfield Ave (the street Diva Pup is on) 3x a week, I'm going to try & see where they are, I haven't found them yet, but I will! What galls me is that they have ads in so many magazines. They must make a fortune. I had no idea they sold fake bags, too!!

Xena was retired from Castleford Maltese (& Yorkies!) in Wyckoff, NJ (Bergen). We're all VERY happy!









ETA: I agree with LadysMom (as usual!







)
Deanne


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Here are a couple of interesting articles on designer mutts:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/NoPuppyMills...gner_mutts.html

http://www.geocities.com/mutts02/designer-mutts.html


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Mar 3 2005, 12:25 PM
> *Here are a couple of interesting articles on designer mutts:
> 
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/NoPuppyMills...gner_mutts.html
> ...


[/QUOTE]


There is this one too you forgot to add...

Mixed-breed dogs, once the domain of U.S. animal shelters, are being sought by an increasing number of Americans looking for special pooches. Intentionally bred and cutely named, today's special-order mixes have newfound status -- and a purebred price tag. 

"When there were a bunch of them around and a lot of them were in the shelter, you'd call them mutts," said Stephen Zawistowski, science advisor at the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, about the popular mixes that used to accidentally appear. 

Sought-after mixes, some of which can fetch up to $4,000, are the labradoodle, a cross between the Labrador and the poodle; the schnoodle, a schnauzer-poodle mix; the goldendoodle, a golden retriever-poodle mix; the cockapoo, a cocker spaniel-poodle match; and the yorkipoo, a cross between a Yorkshire terrier and a poodle. 

Even Britain's Queen Elizabeth is in on the mixing trend. She has owned more than 30 Welsh corgis since she was 18 years old and has bred several dorgis -- dachshund/corgi mixes. 

The bagel, a mix between a basset hound and a beagle, is typically found in shelters. 

"Right now, there is a stronger interest in crosses than in registered breeds," said breeder Jennifer Connell of Breezy Hill Kennel in Hartsburg, Missouri. 

'Doodle' dogs' popularity stems from the combination of the poodle's non-shedding, allergy-friendly coat with the intelligence, temperament and size of Labradors, golden retrievers, schnauzers and Yorkshire terriers. 

Intentionally bred The labradoodle was first intentionally bred in Australia in the 1970s and has its roots there as a guide dog for allergy sufferers, according to Beverly Manners, founder of Rutland Manor Labradoodle Breeding and Research Center in Victoria, Australia. 

"I have not met another dog as gentle, intuitive, caring, and intelligent as the labradoodle," said Caren Cioffi, a labradoodle owner and Stanford University MBA student who did a business internship with Manners last summer. 

Ralph C. Richardson, dean of the veterinary college at Kansas State University, bought two schnoodle puppies, including one for his son's family, and has ordered two more. 

"I think the lack of shedding ... is a great attribute that a lot of people like," he said. "In our case, we were looking for a very small dog. For someone who wanted a larger one, perhaps a labradoodle or the goldendoodle would be appropriate." 

Most allergists believe that no dog is 100 percent allergy-free, and often as dogs grow older their coats can change and become more troublesome for allergy sufferers. 

Labradoodles, the most popular mix, can cost between $895 and $2,195, depending on coat and color, pricier than some of the 150 registered purebred dogs. Schnoodles and other mixes are considerably less, starting at $350. Shipping ranges between $375 and $1,690. 

Breeders all over the world report long waiting lists for special mixes. Depending on Mother Nature and what specific criteria a potential owner wants, the wait can be anywhere from a few months to more than a year. 

Breeding techniques Mixed-breeding techniques vary from breeder to breeder. For example, some breeders cross labradoodles with labradoodles, occasionally adding in a poodle to "correct" the dog's coat or disposition, while others mix Labradors with poodles once. 

The labradoodle could be eligible for American Kennel Club recognition if there are at least 300 of them in at least 20 states with three documented generations of labradoodle to labradoodle mixing. A national breed club is also required. 

Mixed-breed dogs are healthier. They aren't as likely to have these inherited problems.... Stephen Zawistowski, science advisor at the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals 

"It's still a developing breed," Rutland Manor's Manners told Reuters in a telephone interview. She has bred up to eight generations of labradoodles over 15 years and is passionate about breeding the best labradoodle possible. 

Some animal experts believe cross breeding, either for one generation or for several, uses the best characteristics of two dogs to create one superdog. Occasionally purebred dogs inherit negative qualities if in-breeding occurs. 

"Mixed-breed dogs are healthier," Zawistowski said. "They aren't as likely to have these inherited problems and people have gotten some of that message and so they're buying mixed-breed dogs." 

On the flip side, purebred advocates relish knowing what to expect from their pup since the reliability of doodle dogs' looks is not 100 percent. 

"The problem is the lack of predictability," Lainie Cantrell, spokeswoman for the AKC, said of labradoodles and other popular mixed-breds. "That's the whole point of a purebred dog and the benefit of a purebred dog is that you typically know what you're going to get." 



Article from CNN.com


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## Sisses Momma (Dec 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Mar 3 2005, 11:25 AM
> *Here are a couple of interesting articles on designer mutts:
> 
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/NoPuppyMills...gner_mutts.html
> ...


[/QUOTE]


As I just stated in another topic, I learn something new everyday. Thanks Marj for the links, great websites!!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

This is from the American Maltese Association:

Interviewing Breeders - Suggested Questions


Do you breed to produce puppies that meet the official Standard of the breed? What bloodlines are the puppies from? If you are answering a newspaper or magazine ad, this will let you know if the breeder has any knowledge of their breed. Most pet breeders have little or no knowledge of their breed; some don't even know there is a Standard (description) approved by AKC and the breed parent club.


MALTESE MYTHS

The Maltese is NOT a terrier! The plural of Maltese is still Maltese - not Malteses. There is no such thing as a "teacup" or "pocket" Maltese. The Maltese is a TOY breed. Our Standard calls for the Maltese to be "under 7 lbs. with 4-6 lbs. preferred". Some Maltese do mature at under 4 lbs. while others mature at over 7 lbs.


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

Tlunn, I didn't see what you saw on the puppylove web site......she let's the puppies go at 8 weeks instead of 12, one of her "parents" is a Bichon/Maltese with Maltese puppies! What's up with that? Methinks she doth protest too much on her "info" page.

Please, anyone, tell me what I missed.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@Mar 3 2005, 07:20 PM
> *Tlunn, I didn't see what you saw on the puppylove web site......she let's the puppies go at 8 weeks instead of 12, one of her "parents" is a Bichon/Maltese with Maltese puppies!  What's up with that?  Methinks she doth protest too much on her "info" page.
> 
> Please, anyone, tell me what I missed.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=39720*


[/QUOTE]
I read it the way you did Pico's Parent....


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Mar 3 2005, 07:13 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is an awesome website!!! She has some beautiful dogs...she must be VERY busy is all I can say!







She seems on the up-and-up and VERY upset that her pictures were stolen! I wish she wasn't so far away! I would love to go see her set-up..and her pups. 
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=39490
[/B][/QUOTE]




> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Mar 3 2005, 08:44 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I read it the way you did Pico's Parent....
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=39734
[/B][/QUOTE]


I said she had an awesome website...I did not read every page word for word. I liked her idea about the complaints about breeders website...I thought her kennel set-up sounded neat myself...with the glass windows to look through etc.
I did think she let them go too early and I wasn't real keen on the "sale" price...(you can either sell them at that price or you can't-but don't put them on a "sale"







) . I didn't see where you all are referring to the Bichon/Maltese with Maltese puppies-(but again, I didn't read it word for word either)-She has too many breeds-but seemed on the up and up to me...which is why I said she must be VERY busy. I don't mind her mixes, although I think they are priced too high. Just my opinion, ya'll are entitled to yours.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

I did just find where that was and this is what it says...

*Sound of"Music" 

(MalteseBichon)

& Ethan (Maltese) puppies.*


Ethan, the daddy is the maltese, not the puppies...the mom is the Maltese/Bichon


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## Vikki and Audrey (Jan 12, 2005)

Most established dog breeds were at one time or another 'designer'. Otherwise we would all be running around with Pharoe Hounds or some other ancient breed.
I think Morkies are absolutely adorable - I saw the most GORGEOUS one the other day - apparently the breeder had an 'accident'. Well if that was the result of an accident I say bring on more - she was one of the most adorable puppies I have ever seen - apart from Audrey of course!
As long as it is done well, with top quality parents, why not mix and have the best of both worlds.
We'll stick with our pure bred Malt for now, but have nothing against mixes in theory as long as the same care is taken with the breeding lines.
Just my 2 cents!


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Vikki and Audrey_@Mar 6 2005, 09:43 PM
> *Most established dog breeds were at one time or another 'designer'. Otherwise we would all be running around with Pharoe Hounds or some other ancient breed.
> I think Morkies are absolutely adorable - I saw the most GORGEOUS one the other day - apparently the breeder had an 'accident'. Well if that was the result of an accident I say bring on more - she was one of the most adorable puppies I have ever seen - apart from Audrey of course!
> As long as it is done well, with top quality parents, why not mix and have the best of both worlds.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Thank you! That;'s why I mix them OCCASIONALLY.. my wait list is already full and my female hasn't even been bred yet. I will always love my Maltese, but the demand for purebred is and has been on a downhill turn for several years now...
peek at my Morkies and how TINY and cute they are, one of them only grew to 2 pounds adult weight.... http://www.puppypuddles.com
Oh yeah I just bought a bunch of cute little dresses for my babies on Ebay cause our babies just love to dress up.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

A few new designer breeds


Collie + Lhasa Apso = Collapso, a dog that folds up for easy transporting

Spitz + Chow Chow = Spitz-Chow, a dog that throws up a lot

Pointer + Setter = Poinsetter, a traditional Christmas pet

Great Pyrenees + Dachshund = Pyradachs, a puzzling breed

Pekingese + Lhasa Apso = Peekasso, an abstract dog

Irish Water Spaniel + English Springer Spaniel = Irish Springer, a dog fresh and clean as a whistle

Labrador Retriever + Curly Coated Retriever = Lab Coat Retriever, the choice of research scientists

Newfoundland + Basset Hound = Newfound Asset Hound, a dog for financial advisors

Terrier + Bulldog = Terribull, a dog that makes awful mistakes

Bloodhound + Labrador = Blabador, not a popular dog with CIA agents

Malamute + Pointer = Moot Point, owned by... oh, well, it doesn't matter anyway

Collie + Malamute = Commute, a dog that travels to work

Deerhound + Terrier = Derriere, a dog that's true to the end

and a few more from elsewhere:

Bloodhound + Borzoi = Bloody Bore, a dog that's not much fun

Kerry Blue Terrier + Skye Terrier = Blue Skye, a dog for visionaries

Cocker Spaniel + Rottweiler = Cockrot, the perfect puppy for that philandering ex-husband 

Bull Terrier + Shih Tzu = Oh, never mind...
(this one only works if you mispronounce Shih Tzu!)


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Mar 7 2005, 09:22 AM
> *A few new designer breeds
> 
> Cocker Spaniel + Rottweiler = Cockrot, the perfect puppy for that philandering ex-husband
> ...


[/QUOTE]









These two are funny!!!!!


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Mar 7 2005, 10:45 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...










These two are funny!!!!!















<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40687
[/B][/QUOTE]


I guess someone (LOL) is UPSET because of my mixing breeds


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maria48+Mar 7 2005, 10:49 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]


I guess someone (LOL) is UPSET because of my mixing breeds
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40693
[/B][/QUOTE]


It has been a debate on here before...let me see if I can find the thread...









Here is the heated debate thread from not too far back!!!







Mix Debate


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Mar 7 2005, 10:50 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It has been a debate on here before...let me see if I can find the thread...








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40695
[/B][/QUOTE]


I always thought this was a free country...I guess not on this forum it's not


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Mar 7 2005, 09:22 AM
> *A few new designer breeds
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Marj, these are great...but you forgot one... Shih Tzu and Maltese=Shitese. My children actually thought they were very funny coming up with that one! Thanks for making me smile today.


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I would like to hope that we can all be allowed to disagree with each other from time to time. Certainly it is a free country and you can and should stand up for what you believe in. This forum is all about Maltese dogs so that makes us a little prejudiced. I've seen some remarks about some of the people thinking that Bichons are ugly (and I have one). I don't get my feelings hurt, though, because if I want to go somewhere where there is lots of warm fuzzies about Bichons I'd go to a Bichon board. Sometimes we post something that everyone agrees with and sometimes a post will get lots of disagreement. That's just the way it goes. I sincerely believe that people aren't intending to be unkind. I think that this and most other Maltese boards are going to have very strong opinions on any type of breeding operation.


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## Deanne3899 (Jan 8, 2005)

Maria48,
The posters here at Spoiled Maltese are being quite respectful to you even though you've listed your *for-profit website *here several times just in this thread! I find THAT in poor taste nevermind your trying to convince us (?) how adorable a 2 lb. Morkie is. Cute & Tiny and Healthy? You didn't say. Also, the only reason there is a debate is because this website is a "free country!" We ARE lucky!
Deanne


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Deanne3899_@Mar 7 2005, 11:19 AM
> *Maria48,
> The posters here at Spoiled Maltese are being quite respectful to you even though you've listed your for-profit website here several times just in this thread! I find THAT in poor taste nevermind your trying to convince us (?) how adorable a 2 lb. Morkie is. Cute & Tiny and Healthy? You didn't say. Also, the only reason there is a debate is because this website is a "free country!" We ARE lucky!
> Deanne
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40724*


[/QUOTE]



LOL... you have a Maltese right??????????????? YOU PAID FOR IT ...didn't you????????????????????. Well I raise TEACUP Maltese and Yorkies for profit...it
is a free country for those ambitious enough to want to raise the bar of this already adorable breed by mixing them with an even more adorable breed, the YORKIE


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Mar 7 2005, 09:22 AM
> *A few new designer breeds
> 
> Cocker Spaniel + Rottweiler = Cockrot, the perfect puppy for that philandering ex-husband
> ...


[/QUOTE]
I love it!!! Too funny


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## Deanne3899 (Jan 8, 2005)

Actually, Maria, I adopted my dog from a Maltese and Yorkie breeder. Xena was retired recently, and we brought her into our home. We paid for her teeth cleaning and spaying, but not for "her."

And I think you missed my point. I find your posting your for-profit website over & over to be tacky and out of place here on Spoiled Maltese. But it is a free country, and as such I can also say that I feel you're coming here hawking your mixes is in poor taste.









Deanne


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Deanne3899_@Mar 7 2005, 11:29 AM
> *Actually, Maria, I adopted my dog from a Maltese and Yorkie breeder. Xena was retired recently, and we brought her into our home. We paid for her teeth cleaning and spaying, but not for "her."
> 
> And I think you missed my point. I find your posting your for-profit website over & over to be tacky and out of place here on Spoiled Maltese. But it is a free country, so I can say that I feel you're coming here hawking your mixes is in poor taste.
> ...


[/QUOTE]


Some of my dogs are rescues too Deanna....I just posted my site because I am proud of my dogs and yes, I do love them. I am not "hawking" my mixes, just wanted everyone to see how cute my designer babies are.


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by msmagnolia_@Mar 7 2005, 11:16 AM
> *I would like to hope that we can all be allowed to disagree with each other from time to time.  Certainly it is a free country and you can and should stand up for what you believe in.  This forum is all about Maltese dogs so that makes us a little prejudiced.  I've seen some remarks about some of the people thinking that Bichons are ugly (and I have one).  I don't get my feelings hurt, though, because if I want to go somewhere where there is lots of warm fuzzies about Bichons I'd go to a Bichon board.  Sometimes we post something that everyone agrees with and sometimes a post will get lots of disagreement.  That's just the way it goes.  I sincerely believe that people aren't intending to be unkind.  I think that this and most other Maltese boards are going to have very strong opinions on any type of breeding operation.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40717*


[/QUOTE]
Well said Ms. Magnolia. And I for one, think Bichons are adorable!


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maria48+Mar 7 2005, 11:25 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...




LOL... you have a Maltese right??????????????? YOU PAID FOR IT ...didn't you????????????????????. Well I raise TEACUP Maltese and Yorkies for profit...it
is a free country for those ambitious enough to want to raise the bar of this already adorable breed by mixing them with an even more adorable breed, the YORKIE
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40733
[/B][/QUOTE]

"Raise the bar"? The breed standard, which is the bar, does not recognize mixes! And if you look at the AMA's code of ethics, the use of the term "teacup" is contrary to what they deem as ethical. Same thing is true for the Yorkie. I don't have a problem with someone earning a living. However, I think it is very wrong to imply that you are somehow improving these two breeds with your practices. What you are doing is breeding two dogs to produce a mutt, or mixed breed. Personally, I wouldn't pay a lot of money for one, but that's my choice, as it is yours to sell them.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Here'a an excellent article de-bunking the myth of designer mutts being healhier than purebreds:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/NoPuppyMills...brid_vigor.html

True mixed breed dogs are generally healthier than purebreds, but when not-so-reputable breeders cross two breeds, genetic problems inherent in both breeds can be passed on. If you follow the link here, you can cross reference Yorkies and see that they are also prone to luxating patellas, liver shunts and eye problems just as Maltese are:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/NoPuppyMills...tt.html#yorkies


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by saltymalty+Mar 7 2005, 11:50 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]

"Raise the bar"? The breed standard, which is the bar, does not recognize mixes! And if you look at the AMA's code of ethics, the use of the term "teacup" is contrary to what they deem as ethical. Same thing is true for the Yorkie. I don't have a problem with someone earning a living. However, I think it is very wrong to imply that you are somehow improving these two breeds with your practices. What you are doing is breeding two dogs to produce a mutt, or mixed breed. Personally, I wouldn't pay a lot of money for one, but that's my choice, as it is yours to sell them.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40746
[/B][/QUOTE]


TEACUP is just a word to describe the size of a dog....and teacups do exist!!!!


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## Deanne3899 (Jan 8, 2005)

> this already adorable breed by mixing them with an even more adorable breed, the YORKIE[/B]


 I'll also disagree that the Yorkie is more adorable than the Maltese! Not to me! 

Maria, I'm assuming when you say you have rescue dogs, you are not breeding rescue dogs, right? I don't consider my dog "rescued," we gave her a new home is all.

Thanks for sharing your dogs! It's just a little hard for me to see your sharing your website as "see how cute my designer babies are" when your web page has all that payment information all over it.

Deanne


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Deanne3899_@Mar 7 2005, 12:14 PM
> *QUOTE*


*



this already adorable breed by mixing them with an even more adorable breed, the YORKIE

Click to expand...

* I'll also disagree that the Yorkie is more adorable than the Maltese! Not to me! 

Maria, I'm assuming when you say you have rescue dogs, you are not breeding rescue dogs, right? I don't consider my dog "rescued," we gave her a new home is all.

Thanks for sharing your dogs! It's just a little hard for me to see your sharing your website as "see how cute my designer babies are" when your web page has all that payment information all over it.

Deanne
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40762
[/B][/QUOTE]

that's a slap in the face saying I breed rescue dogs...my RESCUE dogs are just that, and I paid well over 2,000.00 to get them fixed, and YES they are still here with me where they will live out the end of their days. MY designer babies are cute and that's why I have such a huge wait list...go to wizard of claws...I think I'll raise the price to 3,000.00 for my Morkies and I will get it too!








About the payments, I accept credit cards, do you want me to put you on my wait list?


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

The term, "teacup" is a wonderful marketing ploy to sell undersized dogs. It sounds much nicer than "substandard". You will never see a "teacup" breeder at an AKC sanctioned dog show. None of the breed standards recognize or allow this term. Tell me, what exactly does "teacup" mean?


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by saltymalty_@Mar 7 2005, 12:24 PM
> *The term, "teacup" is a wonderful marketing ploy to sell undersized dogs.  It sounds much nicer than "substandard".  You will never see a "teacup" breeder at an AKC sanctioned dog show.  None of the breed standards recognize or allow this term.  Tell me, what exactly does "teacup" mean?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40768*


[/QUOTE]

Teacup is just an adjective to describe the size, and I disagree with you on this one. Teacups are bred for generations to be consistently small, not a freak maybe one time runt. And they are not substandard. That is only your opinion.


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maria48+Mar 7 2005, 12:31 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Teacup is just an adjective to describe the size, and I disagree with you on this one. Teacups are bred for generations to be consistently small, not a freak maybe one time runt. And they are not substandard. That is only your opinion.








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40773
[/B][/QUOTE]
It's not only my opinion, it's also the opinion of the yorkie and maltese parent clubs. So your answer is that you do not uphold the standards of these two parent clubs, correct?
Edited: BTW, I understand enough grammar to know that you are using it as an adjective. I am looking for a definition of teacup. When you look in the dictionary, it just says that it's a cup for drinking tea.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

I looked on the AMA website to see what they said about teacup dogs:


> *MALTESE MYTHS*
> 
> The Maltese is NOT a terrier! The plural of Maltese is still Maltese - not Malteses. There is no such thing as a "teacup" or "pocket" Maltese. The Maltese is a TOY breed. Our Standard calls for the Maltese to be "under 7 lbs. with 4-6 lbs. preferred". Some Maltese do mature at under 4 lbs. while others mature at over 7 lbs.[/B]


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by saltymalty+Mar 7 2005, 12:35 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]
It's not only my opinion, it's also the opinion of the yorkie and maltese parent clubs. So your answer is that you do not uphold the standards of these two parent clubs, correct?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40774
[/B][/QUOTE]


WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ANYWAY? I think it bothers







you off that I make money off DESIGNER DOGS and you DON'T!


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by maria48+Mar 7 2005, 12:38 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ANYWAY? I think it bothers







you off that I make money off DESIGNER DOGS and you DON'T!
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40776
[/B][/QUOTE]

Expand your horzons a bit and chill...wouldn't want to be blamed for a heart attack her


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by maria48+Mar 7 2005, 12:40 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*


WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ANYWAY? I think it bothers







you off that I make money off DESIGNER DOGS and you DON'T!
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40776
*[/QUOTE]

Expand your horzons a bit and chill...wouldn't want to be blamed for a heart attack her








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40778
[/B][/QUOTE]


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maria48+Mar 7 2005, 12:38 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ANYWAY? I think it bothers







you off that I make money off DESIGNER DOGS and you DON'T!
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40776
[/B][/QUOTE]
Huh? How about answering the question? Why post things and not explain them instead of becoming defensive and resort to personal attacks?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

About so-called teacup Yorkies:

http://www.yorkiesdirect.com/teacupyorkies.htm

And this from "Beware Frauds and Irreputable People on the Net"

Never buy a dog from a breeder who is using the term "teacup". It's a sellers gimmick designed to sell you a dog. If a reputable breeder truly does have a little 2 pound dog they will not place it in a pet home with an unknowledgable or inexperienced person. The true tinies have many health complications and a shorter life span due to the dwarfing gene and is not a good pet for the average person. A reputable breeder will place them in a home they can trust and keep an eye on the animal or they will keep it to themselves so they can care for it properly. A breeder should never breed to encourage the dwarfing factor. True dwarfs have far too many health complications. Just like a human, a dwarfed animal has special needs and needs an educated guardian.


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## Deanne3899 (Jan 8, 2005)

Maria,
SLOW DOWN and READ! I didn't say you breed rescue dogs. I asked to clarify.
I said:


> I'm assuming when you say you have rescue dogs, you are not breeding rescue dogs, right?[/B]


There are "breeders" in it for the money, and there are breeders whose purpose is to better the breed (not breeds). I think you've made it very clear what kind of breeder you are.


> I think I'll raise the price to 3,000.00 for my Morkies and I will get it too![/B]


You're not doing yourself any good here yelling at people. Esp. when you aren't even reading what is actually written to you. ETA: The teacup info being shared is from the Yorkie, Maltese & AKC parent websites. It's not being made up by SM posters.
Deanne


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by saltymalty+Mar 7 2005, 12:41 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*


WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ANYWAY? I think it bothers







you off that I make money off DESIGNER DOGS and you DON'T!
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40776
*[/QUOTE]
Huh? How about answering the question? Why post things and not explain them instead of becoming defensive and resort to personal attacks?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40780
[/B][/QUOTE]

Personal attacks??? You are the one doing the attacking! I did answer you what a teacup was...the only attacking defensive one here is you I'm afraid. 
Excuse me, but someone on the phone insisted on paying me up front for one of my upcoming DESIGNER Morkie adorable puppies with her American Express I love Designer Dogs credit card... So I must send pics now


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

*</span></span>*


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## Deanne3899 (Jan 8, 2005)

I'll repeat:


> There are "breeders" in it for the money, and there are breeders whose purpose is to better the breed.I think you've made it very clear what kind of breeder you are.[/B]


You are fooling yourself if you think we care that you are making money. The majority here care about the DOGS. A two-lb. Morkie? You didn't mention if it was healthy or not? You only cared about it being tiny and cute (and, I guess, worth $3000!).

Do we have a dead horse for SM?







Geez, Maria, didn't you also post that article already, too??


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Deanne3899_@Mar 7 2005, 12:50 PM
> *I'll repeat:QUOTE*


*



There are "breeders" in it for the money, and there are breeders whose purpose is to better the breed.I think you've made it very clear what kind of breeder you are.

Click to expand...

*You are fooling yourself if you think we care that you are making money. The majority here care about the DOGS. A two-lb. Morkie? You didn't mention if it was healthy or not? You only cared about it being tiny and cute (and, I guess, worth $3000!).

Do we have a dead horse for SM?








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40787
[/B][/QUOTE]


They are very healthy...I love the Maltese and also the Yorkies, but my buyers love the best of both worlds...plus they are absolutely ADORABLE!


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Deanne3899_@Mar 7 2005, 12:50 PM
> *I'll repeat:QUOTE*


*



There are "breeders" in it for the money, and there are breeders whose purpose is to better the breed.I think you've made it very clear what kind of breeder you are.

Click to expand...

*You are fooling yourself if you think we care that you are making money. The majority here care about the DOGS. A two-lb. Morkie? You didn't mention if it was healthy or not? You only cared about it being tiny and cute (and, I guess, worth $3000!).

Do we have a dead horse for SM?







Geez, Maria, didn't you also post that article already, too??








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40787
[/B][/QUOTE]


Yes I did, just like the persons who REPEATEDLY posted the other articles contrary to CNN's article. SEE ...EVEN CNN LOVES MORKIES!


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

I'm sorry you feel my questions are personal attacks. I am simply looking for you to define a few things. First, what is a "teacup"? Or in other words, what do you mean when you use that term? Second, do you breed to the AMA standard? Third, do you uphold the AMA code of ethics? These are not personal questions, but rather questions any legitimate breeder would be more than happy to answer. I can only make assumptions on what kind of breeder you must be by your lack of specific answers.


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## Deanne3899 (Jan 8, 2005)

Saltymalty,
I don't think Maria can answer those questions as a reputable breeder would. 

I also feel that if her best support for "designer dogs" is a CNN article, her argument isn't likely to be very strong.

BUT she's making money hand over fist, apparently!


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by saltymalty_@Mar 7 2005, 12:54 PM
> *I'm sorry you feel my questions are personal attacks.  I am simply looking for you to define a few things.  First, what is a "teacup"?  Or in other words, what do you mean when you use that term?  Second, do you breed to the AMA standard?  Third, do you uphold the AMA code of ethics?  These are not personal questions, but rather questions any legitimate breeder would be more than happy to answer.  I can only make assumptions on what kind of breeder you must be by your lack of specific answers.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40791*


[/QUOTE]


My Maltese are bred to standard as you can see


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

OK Maria...that's great. However, you still haven't answered the questions.


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by saltymalty_@Mar 7 2005, 01:13 PM
> *OK Maria...that's great.  However, you still haven't answered the questions.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40799*


[/QUOTE]


I see you wish to play judge jury and executioner...what was it that upset you so?
I did answer all your questions...this is a democracy and I am entitled to my opinions as you are... you seem to think yourself more important than what you really are


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)




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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

I'm sorry, Maria but I agree with SaltyMalty. You are being very defensive over these questions. I'm in the process of looking for a 2nd puppy and have a list of over 20 questions that I ask every breeder that I talk to. If the breeder got this defensive over the questions I would definitly move on. If a breeder is not willing to answer my questions I'm not interested.

Also I've done a lot of research and every source I've found says if a breeder uses the term "teacup" they are not a reputable breeder.

Edit: CNN would normally be a good resource but not when it comes to breeding.


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maria48+Mar 7 2005, 01:22 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I see you wish to play judge jury and executioner...what was it that upset you so?
I did answer all your questions...this is a democracy and I am entitled to my opinions as you are... you seem to think yourself more important than what you really are








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40802
[/B][/QUOTE]
Maria, once again, huh? I was just looking for some information, that apparently, you don't want to answer. Please cool the personal attacks, though. I don't appreciate it.


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Mar 7 2005, 01:32 PM
> *I'm sorry, Maria but I agree with SaltyMalty.  You are being very defensive over these questions.  I'm in the process of looking for a 2nd puppy and have a list of over 20 questions that I ask every breeder that I talk to.  If the breeder got this defensive over the questions I would definitly move on.  If a breeder is not willing to answer my questions I'm not interested.
> 
> Also I've done a lot of research and every source I've found says if a breeder uses the term "teacup" they are not a reputable breeder.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40807*


[/QUOTE]


I'm not being defensive... if you had been civil and not call me names and yes you have insinuated my breeding ethics by implying I breed the rescues I have, I would have answered you a little nicer. You reap what you sow. Again, there are opinions on the teacup issue. Teacups do exist whether you like it or not.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

The American Maltese Association does not recognize the term "teacup".

Much Ado About Poo
Are Cock-a-poo's, Peke-a-poo's and the other poo dogs real breeds?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Rare!” “Exotic!” “One of a Kind!” “Luxury on a Leash!” proclaim the ads in the Sunday pet classifieds. “Get the best of both worlds!” “Registered New Breed!” “Special Price - this week only - $599!” 

Curious? Who wouldn't be? Almost everyone wants something different, unusual, something new and exciting, something no one else has. What are these unique, exciting dogs with funny names and high price tags?

Meet the Poo's: Yorkie-Poo's, Cock-a-Poo's, Lhasa-Poo's, Beag-A-Poo's, Peke-A-Poo's, Pom-Poo's, Doxie-Poo's and Terri-Poo's, just to name a few. Meet their cousins, the Cocker-Chons and the Bi-Tzu. This large and incredibly diverse family of dogs includes such “breeds” as Cock-a-Shels and Malt-oodles; everything from the imposing Rott-a-Dor down to the diminutive Peke-A-Pom and Yorki-Huahua. What do these dogs with the whimsical breed names have in common? The fact that they're not real breeds at all. They're mongrels — mixed breeds — masquerading as something glamorous, valuable and highly desirable. Yorkie-Poo's are simply Yorkshire Terriers crossed with Poodles. A Bi-Tzu is a Bichon Frise/Shih Tzu mix. Cock-a-Shels result when Cocker Spaniels are bred to Shelties (Shetland Sheepdogs) and Rott-A-Dors occur when a Rottweiler and a Labrador Retriever join forces. New breeds? Hardly. Behind the hype and the clever name is a common mutt.

Have you ever looked at a Basset Hound and a Poodle or a similarly mis-matched combination and wondered what the puppies would look like if the two were mated? Lots of us have. It makes for an entertaining exercise in imagination. But the people deliberately breeding “Peke-A-Poms” (a cross between a Pekingese and a Pomeranian) and other such fanciful mixes have taken the “what if?” game a step further. Rather than playing games with their imagination, they're playing games with living creatures, charging big prices for their results and telling some pretty tall tales to justify it. Here are some of them:

“We're making a new breed. The AKC is going to recognize the Cocker-Poo real soon now.” 
The process of creating a new breed and achieving AKC recognition is long and involved, requiring many years and many generations. A “breed” is a genetically similar strain of dogs that resemble each other in appearance and temperament. Bred together, two dogs of the same breed will produce puppies that are also similar in appearance to the parents and will develop in a predictable fashion.

The first step in creating a new breed involves a definite vision of what the breed will look like and the writing of a breed standard to describe it. For example, what characteristics must a Yorkie-Poo have in order for it to be considered a Yorkie-Poo? What is a Cocker-Chon or a Peke-A-Pom supposed to look and act like? To date, no breeders of these “new” breeds have even taken that first step.(see note) There has been no agreement among breeders even as to what a Yorkie-Poo is supposed to be other than a cross between a Yorkshire Terrier and a Poodle. After years of mixing these breeds, no two Yorkie-Poos look anything alike; neither are any Peke-A-Poms or Cocker-Chons similar to one another. There has not been any serious effort at all to create a distinct breed that the AKC would recognize.

“We're combining the best of both breeds into one! Shelties shed but Poodles don't. A Shelti-Poo will look like a Sheltie but not shed.” 
Not exactly. Genetics doesn't work that way. Some Shelti-Poos might fit this description but many won't. A breeder can't pick and choose what features will be passed on from each breed — it's strictly a matter of luck because the genetic combinations involved in the crossing of breeds is random and unpredictable. There is just as much of a chance that the puppy will grow up to have the worst characteristics of both breeds! The selection of certain traits is achieved only by generations of careful breeding, discarding dogs that don't have the desired qualities and narrowing the gene pool until the right combinations occur with regularity.

“These Beag-A-Poos are registered with the 'Dogs International Kennel Club'.” 
The word “registered” has a magical effect on people. They seem to think something that's “registered” must be legitimate and valuable. Not so! “Registered” is no more an indication that a dog's breed is legitimate any more than it implies the dog has quality or value. “Registered” simply means “recorded.” Someone has a paid a fee to an agency to record his dog's name in a book and the agency has sent him a certificate saying they did so. There are many canine registries in business today that will register any kind of dog whether it's purebred, mixed breed or even of unknown origin. 

The two most long-standing and reputable canine registries are the American Kennel Club and the United Kennel Club. Neither registers mixed breed dogs or dogs of unknown parentage. AMBOR, the American Mixed Breed Obedience Registry, is a reputable organization that registers mixed breeds but only for the purpose of competing in the obedience trials it sponsors.

“The price is so high because they're one of a kind.” 
One of a kind — yes, that's certainly true! Every mixed breed dog, whether bred deliberately or by accident, is one of a kind because its genetic makeup is an unpredictable jumble of characteristics. No two are alike. Does this factor alone justify a high price, higher than what's charged by many reputable breeders of quality purebreds? No way. If “one of a kind” made a dog valuable, every mixed breed dog at the pound would be worth a fortune!

“We have been responsible breeders of Bass-A-Poos for four years.” 
The term “responsible” is getting a lot of mileage these days. Almost every breeder claims to be “responsible.” The dictionary defines responsible as “trustworthy and dependable.” How dependable is a breeder who plays imaginative “what if?” games with his dogs and expects the public to pay for his experiments? How trustworthy is a breeder who deliberately misleads people about the value of a mutt? I think you can answer that question for yourself.

Truly responsible breeders are honest and knowledgeable with a strict code of personal ethics. They care about the puppies they produce and the people who'll buy them. Would a responsible breeder deliberately cross a Basset Hound and a Poodle — dogs with completely different and potentially incompatible physical structures and temperaments? Would they deliberately mix any breeds? No, not when they know the results will be completely unpredictable and that there are already thousands of accidentally-bred mixed breed dogs in need of good homes.

Does this mean that all producers of “Poos” and other mixes are unscrupulous and deceitful? No, many of them are simply ignorant of responsible breeding practices and unaware of what they're really doing. Both the deceitful and the ignorant, though, prey on the ignorance of the public — as long as people don't know the truth about these exotic-sounding dogs, they'll continue to buy them and support this unethical and unnecessary practice.

There's no doubt that mixed breeds like Yorkie-Poos, Malt-oodles, and Bi-Tzus can make wonderful pets. Thousands of people own and love mixed breed dogs of every description. But are these unusual mixes really valuable, unique, “designer dogs”? No, not any more so than the many wonderful mixed breeds available for adoption at the local animal shelter.

Don't be fooled by the whimsical names, the intriguing descriptions, and the high prices! It's just a lot of poo. You can find “designer dogs” of every size, shape, color and personality as close as your local humane society or rescue service and at a far more reasonable cost. Why not visit there first and save a life? You'll be glad you did!


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maria48+Mar 7 2005, 01:36 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not being defensive... if you had been civil and not call me names and yes you have insinuated my breeding ethics by implying I breed the rescues I have, I would have answered you a little nicer. You reap what you sow. Again, there are opinions on the teacup issue. Teacups do exist whether you like it or not.








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40809
[/B][/QUOTE]
I think you need to go back and read the posts and see who has said what. I have never "called you any names". I also have never said anything remotely similar to accusing you of breeding rescues. I thought all of my questions were straight and to the point.


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Mar 7 2005, 01:40 PM
> *The American Maltese Association does not recognize the term "teacup".
> 
> Much Ado About Poo
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

Maria, I'll take that as some sort of strange apology and leave it at that. Good day.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maria48+Mar 7 2005, 12:36 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not being defensive... if you had been civil and not call me names and yes you have insinuated my breeding ethics by implying I breed the rescues I have, I would have answered you a little nicer. You reap what you sow. Again, there are opinions on the teacup issue. Teacups do exist whether you like it or not.








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40809
[/B][/QUOTE]

When the heck did I call you names?! All I said was what my sources, which happen to be national clubs and even the human society, say.


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## Deanne3899 (Jan 8, 2005)

Saltymalty/Kristi (I'm not sure who else!),
I'm sorry that Maria mixed our posts up. I don't think she was reading very carefully.








Ladysmom,
Great article!









I think this thread is about done now!








Deanne


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

I have not been near a computer for a while and just saw all this! I have to thank you Deanne, Saltymalty, Ladys Mom, Lexi, and Ms.Magnolia. I agree with you all 10000% and thank you for taking the abuse I would have surely gotten had I been able to post!







Love you guys!!!


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

Marie,
I am not here to jump into the fight but I will state my observations. I personally think some Yorkie/Maltese mixes are very cute. My friend has one and he is a darling. But I have also seen some that are not attractive at all. After all, they are mixes and the look is not consistent - some have ears up and others have ear down. Some are gold and some are black.

I also believe you are correct to say any people like smaller but there are ones who also like bigger. I guess this is about preference. Since you are breeding mixes, you do not have to follow any standard since none exist for the mixes you are breeding.

I should also add that your dogs appear to be well cared for (although some agrue that photos can be deceiving). I am also glad you have a contract up that clearly outlines everything. The part about the boarding fees for late pickup seems a little mean but most of the basis are covered. One thing though, since your prices are determined by size. *How come size guarantee is not in your contract?* What happens if someone pays $3000 for a teacup that grows to be 6 lbs? Do you provide a refund in price difference for a standard vs teacup? Or do you just ignore them? Or do you give them the option to trade for another?

One of your selling points is that "Unlike some breeders claiming to have "Show-quality" yet there are no pedigrees posted on their websites, we post our pedigrees." I was only able to find 3 pedigrees but I a sure you have more dogs than that. Am I not looking in the right place or have you only posted the best pedigrees or only pedigrees of the sires?

You also mentioned that "Most of our dogs come from Champion-sired brood stock." Does this mean that the grandparents are champions? I find most breeders state that the parents are champions thus the puppies are champions sired. All of my puppies have at least one champion parent.

I have seen Durrer Yorkies in many shows. To me, they are not the type of people who would sell a puppy knowning that they will be used to sire mixed puppies. I wonder how she will feel that her name is attached to mixed pups.

PS: You appear to hold back the smallest for breeding. What is the smallest size female you will breed? Aren't there more c-sections and risks involved with the little ones?


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by CharmyPoo_@Mar 7 2005, 02:44 PM
> *Marie,
> I am not here to jump into the fight but I will state my observations.  I personally think some Yorkie/Maltese mixes are very cute.  My friend has one and he is a darling.  But I have also seen some that are not attractive at all.  After all, they are mixes and the look is not consistent - some have ears up and others have ear down.  Some are gold and some are black.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

This is really getting quite funny...
A: The pedigree posted is of my Yorkie female, and I did not get the Yorkie from Durrer personally. Also, Durrer is not the only line used. As you can see, there are many important lines in my Yorkies...I choose this to make a better Morkie. If you use crap, you get crap. I am entitled to this. I don't think your opinion matters to her. My other pedigree is of my Maltese male.
B: My contract is clear and perfectly legal as it was drawn up by my LAWYER BROTHER... any issues you may contact him. Unlike me, he will not tolerate abuse.
C: My dogs are very very well cared for...and about "mean spirited" boarding fees, well, if you take your dog to the vet's while you are on vacation...the vet will not allow boarding for free.

It seems to me these mean spirited postings began because I defended myself.
I do not attack anyones opinion on breeding issues and neither should any of you.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

I've been away from my computer for the past two days also, so was shocked when I came back to this posting. Just had to add my two cents worth....
First, there are many people out there who only want to buy a dog with some champions in their pedigree. They don't always know, or care about quality, or what the dog is capable of producing--other than pups who will make money.
Now, what I am going to say next may seem cruel, but, as someone said, everyone is entitled to an opinion...
I have a term for someone who buys a dog, breeds it, and advertising champions in pedigree just to make more money. I think this is a form of PROSTITUTION. I find it unethical to take something someone else has worked hard to produce, has no interest in continuing to better the situation through selective breeding and showing, and only has the end result of $$$ with the pups. It would amaze you at the people who have approached me to ask about a pup from my guy who has two Westminister breed wins, as well as my champion Maltese. These folks don't really know the breed, just know that they can advertise it to make money. They don't care that they don't have quality to breed to in order to improve the line, nor or they interested in doing so. Breeders deal with this all the time. As for the Yorkie breeder whose line is mentioned in the mixes, I dare say she didn't sell with the intention of this going forward in this kind of situation.
It is quite possible that mixes may be produced, or pure litters registration other than AKC when the breeder sells on AKC limited registration. There are cases where the pedigrees are flashed all over a website, but the breeder who owns the pup cannot breed with AKC paperwork, as they received AKC limited registration on their adult.
Now, since I"m being so opinionated, I might just say it all at one time. 
I read the seller's response about the Morkie as: received call, sell of mixed pup, and full payment with credit card. Nowhere did I see that there was any other regard for the pup. Let's face it folks. Some people breed to improve the lines, and some breed to line their pockets.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

That should be the last word!


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LucyLou_@Mar 7 2005, 03:04 PM
> *I've been away from my computer for the past two days also, so was shocked when I came back to this posting.  Just had to add my two cents worth....
> First, there are many people out there who only want to buy a dog with some champions in their pedigree.  They don't always know, or care about quality, or what the dog is capable of producing--other than pups who will make money.
> Now, what I am going to say next may seem cruel, but, as someone said, everyone is entitled to an opinion...
> ...


[/QUOTE]


WHAT do you think of the wizard of claws breeder? He has beautiful dogs, and so does the breeder in Texas?


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

As to what I think of the Wizard of Claws--I've not seen beautiful pups, or pups I would consider quality on that site. If one judges standard by that, then they have a lot to learn. They are puppy brokers--lowest of the low, as far as I'm concerned. Last year, some of us did emailing back and forth with them to gather more information. They will buy your pups and sell them without regard for quality or where they pups are going. I don't believe there are any reputable breeders who would sell to them. They have lawsuits against them because they sell sick dogs. If you do a search, you can find a lot of information on them.
As for the breeder in Texas, I don't know who you are referring to. That is the home of the owner of the #1 Maltese for 2004, and she does have beautiful dogs. I is also the home of some other folks I would put in the same caliber as Wizard of Claws. They just produce tiny dogs for profit.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

December 12, 2003

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

PUPPY STORE SUED FOR MISLEADING CUSTOMERS, SELLING SICK PUPPIES

(Pembroke Pines, FL) Two South Florida attorneys have filed a lawsuit on behalf of customers that bought puppies from Wizard of Claws Inc., alleging that the Pembroke Pines pet store defrauds customers by intentionally misrepresenting the origin of the puppies sold, and by selling puppies that suffer from a wide array of health problems, including contagious diseases and genetic disorders. 

Although Wizard of Claws has told customers that their puppies were imported from "reputable" breeders in South America, according to the complaint filed yesterday Broward County Circuit Court, in reality the puppies were obtained from large scale commercial breeding facilities in Missouri, commonly known as a "puppy mills", where animal welfare concerns are wholly secondary to profits. 

Plaintiff Shannah Diaz of Miami purchased a Maltese puppy, “Prince,” from Wizard of Claws on September 6, 2002 for $950.00. Prince suffered from a congenital bleeding disorder, and died from internal hemorrhaging when he was less than a year old. After Prince died, Diaz began to suspect that Prince had come from a puppy mill, and asked a Wizard of Claws. "They assured me that my puppy had come from a reputable private breeder " Diaz .said, "but I later discovered that my puppy had been shipped to Florida from a commercial breeder in Missouri. " Wizard of Claws refused to reimburse any of Diaz's vet bills.

According to the Humane Society of the United States, the documented problems of puppy mills include overbreeding, inbreeding, minimal veterinary care, poor quality of food and shelter, lack of socialization with humans, overcrowded cages, and the killing of unwanted animals. To the unsuspecting consumer, this often means buying a puppy facing an array of immediate veterinary problems or harboring genetically borne diseases that may not be detected until much later.

Wizard of Claws, which claims to specialize in "tiny, tea-cup size puppies" sells puppies from its Pembroke Pines store and over the Internet. Plaintiff Mary Ibarra of San Antonio, Texas ordered an English Bulldog from Wizard of Claws, and knew that something was very wrong with her new puppy moments after "Gracie" arrived from at the San Antonio International Airport. Gracie, who had received a clean bill of health from Wizard of Claws veterinarian of choice Dr. Jan Bellows, walked on her wrists and she kept falling down on her back legs. Gracie was soon diagnosed as suffering from severe hip dysplasia with early onset arthritis. Gracie’s hip sockets are so bad that they do not have a cup to hold the ball of the joint, and she needs at least two surgeries. If the surgeries are not successful Gracie will have to be euthanized. Wizard of Claws refuses to assist with the costs of the surgeries, or to even reimburse the $1200.00 Ibarra paid for the pup.


The lawsuit, which alleges fraud, breach of warranty and multiple counts of violating the Florida Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act, asks that the plaintiffs be reimbursed for the purchase price of their puppies as well as the veterinary expenses incurred as a result of the purchase an unhealthy pup.


NOTE: Some of the victims of Wizard of Claws and other animal lovers will be demonstrating outside the store at 9101Taft Street, Pembroke Pines tommorow, Saturday, December 13th starting at 11:00 am. Attorneys Mi Kim and Marcy LaHart will be present to answer any questions concerning the case.


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LucyLou_@Mar 7 2005, 03:29 PM
> *As to what I think of the Wizard of Claws--I've not seen beautiful pups, or pups I would consider quality on that site.  If one judges standard by that, then they have a lot to learn. They are puppy brokers--lowest of the low, as far as I'm concerned.  Last year, some of us did emailing back and forth with them to gather more information.  They will buy your pups and sell them without regard for quality or where they pups are going.  I don't believe there are any reputable breeders who would sell to them.  They have lawsuits against them because they sell sick dogs.  If you do a search, you can find a lot of information on them.
> As for the breeder in Texas, I don't know who you are referring to.  That is the home of the owner of the #1 Maltese for 2004, and she does have beautiful dogs. I is also the home of some other folks I would put in the same caliber as Wizard of Claws.  They just produce tiny dogs for profit.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40847*


[/QUOTE]

I didn't know they were brokers, I thought they were breeders...I'm talking about yorkiepups.com....his are the tiniest I've ever seen


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

Anyone that would sell there puppies through a broker is not a reputable breeder. They can not guarentee that their dogs are going to good homes.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I think you mean http://www.yorkiepup.com/. I don't know them personally but I met a girl online that said she got two pups from them and each time they died very quickly due to pravo or some other illness and/or genetic defect. After the second puppy died, she gave up and went to a reputable breeder. No amount of money could put her through that pain again.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maria48+Mar 7 2005, 02:56 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is great that you have legal advice on your contract. I think all breeders should do this to ensure both parties are protected. But this doesn't answer my questions about guarantee on sizes? I have seen more and more "teacup" breeders include a clause for size. I know many show breeders, will take back show potentials if they don't turn out to be show quality. It is in their contracts.



> _Originally posted by maria48_@Mar 7 2005, 02:56 PM
> *C: My dogs are very very well cared for...and about "mean spirited" boarding fees, well, if you take your dog to the vet's while you are on vacation...the vet will not allow boarding for free.*


But your contract states that if they don't pick them up on the agreed date. Let's say, I was suppose to pick the puppy up on saturday but then that day I break my leg and end up in the hospital. I would then have to pay you an extra $25 because I won't be able to pick the puppy up till sunday. I asked my breeder to hold on to a puppy for 3 extra months so she could watch the bite and start lead training. I am not being charged.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by CharmyPoo+Mar 7 2005, 02:52 PM-->
> 
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[/B][/QUOTE]
I talked to a breeder yesterday that told me how a couple years ago they had a really bad winter and she had to keep one of the puppies and extra 4-5 months because the new owners could get there to pick it up. She didn't charge extra. It wasn't something they could do anything about.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Here's a link to an on-line discussion of Jeff Dane and yorkiepup.com:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/archive/i...php/t-2041.html


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I am also baffled by the "boarding charge."

When we got Sassy, after having had already picked Sadie up, the breeder knew that we had a big vacation planned and specifically asked that we wait until we got back to take Sassy. I loved that she put Sassy's welfare first. So I have littermates that I got 3 months apart. Sassy was being watched for show and when she didn't make it (due to bite) the breeder was in NO HURRY for us to take her until she knew that the time was right for all of us. I never spoke with a breeder who charged you for not taking the dog by a certain time. In fact, most of the breeders that I dealt with almost had to have the dogs pried away from them.


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## maria48 (Feb 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom+Mar 7 2005, 03:56 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I talked to a breeder yesterday that told me how a couple years ago they had a really bad winter and she had to keep one of the puppies and extra 4-5 months because the new owners could get there to pick it up. She didn't charge extra. It wasn't something they could do anything about.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40869
[/B][/QUOTE]

That boarding fee applied only to when I used to take the pups down to my lawyer brothers home in jersey


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by msmagnolia_@Mar 7 2005, 04:03 PM
> *I am also baffled by the "boarding charge."
> 
> When we got Sassy, after having had already picked Sadie up, the breeder knew that we had a big vacation planned and specifically asked that we wait until we got back to take Sassy.  I loved that she put Sassy's welfare first.  So I have littermates that I got 3 months apart.  Sassy was being watched for show and when she didn't make it (due to bite) the breeder was in NO HURRY for us to take her until she knew that the time was right for all of us.  I never spoke with a breeder who charged you for not taking the dog by a certain time.  In fact, most of the breeders that I dealt with almost  had to have the dogs pried away from them.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40872*


[/QUOTE]


Yeah, me too. When I found Brinkley...I couldn't pick him up until after our vacation. His breeder was wonderful about keeping him until I could get there to pick him up. She never even hinted as to it being a problem or me needing to pay a boarding fee of any kind...







I actually didn't pick him up until he was almost 16 weeks old.


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## Quincymom (Oct 17, 2004)

I just came across this thread as well. Seems pretty simple to me, there is right now a demand for mixed "designer" breeds and tiny pups. Someone will be there to fill that demand--it is what our country is all about. Oh well, a few years from now the $$ will be in giant dogs or purebred moose, or whatever the public fancies. But true breeders and lovers of Maltese, Yorkies, Labs, whatever, will still be there, loving their breed and striving to produce the best, healthiest dog. If Morkies, Yorkese, Papoodles, etc, have standardized their mixes by then, then they can join the ranks of recognized breeds. And I am sure those folks that wanted the mixed breeds love them as much as we love our dogs. No living creature deserves less. 
Quincymom


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Quincymom_@Mar 7 2005, 05:05 PM
> *I just came across this thread as well. Seems pretty simple to me, there is right now a demand for mixed "designer" breeds and tiny pups. Someone will be there to fill that demand--it is what our country is all about. Oh well, a few years from now the $$ will be in giant dogs or purebred moose, or whatever the public fancies. But true breeders and lovers of Maltese, Yorkies, Labs, whatever, will still be there, loving their breed and striving to produce the best, healthiest dog. If Morkies, Yorkese, Papoodles, etc, have standardized their mixes by then, then they can join the ranks of recognized breeds. And I am sure those folks that wanted the mixed breeds love them as much as we love our dogs. No living creature deserves less.
> Quincymom
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40896*


[/QUOTE]


i couldnt have said it better







and since this thread was about diva pups and now i cant tell what its about, its closed


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