# Oliver - Atopy Dermatitis



## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

OK -- I've calmed down from yesterday's shock about Oliver and have done a lot of research on the web about Atopy Dermatitis. And I'm less stressed.

Because Oliver has recently had a severe outbreak, his meds are more extensive than they would be if he was into a routine to help provent this type of allergy flare-up.

In researching, it is primarily stated that Atopy Dermatitis begins between 1-3 years of age and that it is usually caused by a virus or *VACCINATIONS*. Yep -- here we go again with things that are caused by vaccinations. You know that I'm not in favor of overvaccination which I think we do as a nation.

Right now Oliver is on Prednisone which we are tapering him off of. At this point, we do not think that he will have to continue to take this med after another 10 days. So I crossed that off the list as a normal expense.

He is also on Simplicef for 20 days to get his neutrophils (rash on skin) cleared up. Again, I'm hoping that we do not have to use again. So I crossed that off the list too as a normal expense.

They have me using Douxo Chlorhexidine Shampoo and Spray. I found both of these on-line for about 1/3 of what I was charged by the Specialist. They also provided TrizUltra_Keto for twice weekly ear flushes as he's proned to ear infections (not currently) from the allergies. Again the price was less on-line.

The one thing that he should take daily is Atopica 10mg which runs about $50+ per month. He has been on this before, but, it has a lot of side effects for gastroinstical problems. One of our members pm'd me about this drug and said that her fluff could not tolerate it. It does cause upset tummies most of the time.

In looking for more long-term holistic answers to Oliver's allergies, I have found the following suggestions:

1. Soaking in Epsom Salt Baths
2. Washing his skin with Baking Soda and Water
3. Apple Cider Vingegar/Water Spray
4. Lime Sulfur Dips
5. Using sprays with Pramoxine
6. Linoleic Acid Shampoos and/or sprays
7. Oatmeal Shampoos
8. Adding Colostrum to help immune system
9. Additing Omega 3 or Omerga 6 Oil to Diet
10. Cortisone Soothing Shampoos and Conditioners
11. Calendula Ointment

I want to try to get him on natural and holistic products as I somehow believe, in my heart, that all the combination of harse meds (even in the shampoo and spray) are having an adverse effect (along with all the stress he's had in the last month).

What I don't know is whether or not Oliver will be able to tolerate the Atopica Drug and, if not, what can be substituted instead.

For those that have had fluffs with severe allergies, please let me know if you have tried any of these items and how they worked. Also if you have a suggestion for something other than the Atopica.

I'm also looking for something other than the Science Diet Z/D Prescription Food. Maybe Dr. Harvey's but not certain what protein to use.

Right now my plan is to use the products that the Vet prescribed until his skin has completely cleared up (I hope that it will) and to then begin switching to the more natural/holistic products. I'm thinking it will take about 20-30 days for this to happen. I'm hoping that within the next couple of months, I will have his skin clear and have him on an easier and less expensive routine to keep his allergies in check.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Atopica is the brand name for oral cyclosporine which can be found as a generic or be compounded as a generic for cheaper than the brand name stuff. Most dogs tolerate it just fine if it is given with a meal. It should be reduced to the lowest effective dose (which is typically about 3 times per week). 

Oatmeal-based products are no longer regularly recommended for dogs with allergies as it can be an allergen. 

Lyme sulfur dips are nasty and usually only used for dogs with ringworm. 

Simple things like keeping the dog's hair cut short and wiping them off after going outside often make a huge difference. 

Is the dog's coat dry? Oily?


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Jackie -- thanks for the info. His skin and coat are very dry. He does not have Seborrhea.

Also, the Specialist's intructions for the Atopica is to gove ot pm am EMPTY stomach, 2 hours before or after meal. She was very specific about that.

OK - Oatmeal shampoos -- NO; Lyme Sulfur Dips - NO.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Lynn,

Is there a holistic vet near you?

I'd suggest consulting with one if you can.

Gus had horrible allergies - was always told they were food but turns out they are environmental for the most part. He used to get sores on his skin, horrible rashes, tummy issues, ear infections, yellow goop eyes... 

I bathe him every other day. So if Oliver were with me I'd keep him in a very short cut so that bathing was quick, which makes it easier to do more often.

I also keep baby wipes (as natural as possible) around to wipe off a few times during the day.

But a holistic vet I suggest because there are many herbs and natural supports that can really help boost the immune system and soothe the skin.

Allergies are an immune reaction - so it makes total sense that this condition would be brought on by a virus or vaccines. If the immune system isn't being supported, the allergies are not going to resolve. Pharmaceuticals keep inflammation down by turning things off, but it does not support the immune system, and so if you stop the meds the symptoms return... it's a bandaid.

Our holistic vet has Gus on an immune booster.

She also has him on herbal allergy supports. He started on the Standard Process Canine Dermal Support. It's powder I sprinkle on his food. I noticed big changes starting that.

She also had him on Traumeel - which is a natural anti-inflammatory. He was on that until just a few months ago. His symptoms are so low that he is off it during low allergy season.

But the herbal supports really help, and they are not that bad expense wise.... each bottle lasts us 2-3 months.

For us - baths... I use an unscented soap free shampoo (It's one I use myself) and I add essential oils... tea tree oil and peppermint is a good combo for Gus. They seem to help soothe his skin nicely. Was sort of trial and error to figure out for him. Tried neem and other oils... 

After his bath I usually massage a little emu oil into his skin. Emu oil is used for psoriasis patients and burn victims. It has wonderful and powerful healing properties. But it's another reason to keep his coat short....

But since he has a specific condition I think consulting with a holistic vet for natural allergy supports would be the safest and least expensive option in the long run.

Glad you have calmed down 

Oliver is so blessed!


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Oh, and he was put on a good probiotic to help his gut.

80% of immune system is in the gut.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Great news, Lynn. I know how things can be such a shock to our system that our first reaction is "How can this be done?" but then a little time and breathing helps a lot. I think that natural and herbal options would be a great alternative. Having a human family with various allergies some of the meds are worse than the condition. It takes a little trial and error but pays off.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Tori -- thanks for the info. I'm searching for a Holistic Vet in the area. If not, I will have to come to Phoenix and will get the name of your Holistic Vet from you. She's on the east side if I remember correctly.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

PM'd you her info, Lynn. Just in case.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Lynn--Sammie was normal till 9 mo. Shortly after it all started with licking feet/scratching ears/licking feet and he diagnosed by 2 Vets with what Oliver has atopy derm. I will be forever convinced he has a compromised immune system coming from a BYB (he is the only survivor of his liter) AND maybe this set him up for this after his needed and requied vacinations. His immune system couldn't handle them is my guess watching it develop. 
I do the feet washing and no oatmeal products, no grains and warm rinses when he is itching more. He has very dry skin too, so I'm following this thread closely for any new tips. His is much worse during allergy season. 
Oh. I found the derma-itchy skin shampoos really set him off. I use tropi clean puppy shampoo only. 
Good luck.


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## Malt Shoppe (Jul 20, 2011)

Lacie's Mom said:


> could not tolerate it. It does cause upset tummies most of the time.
> 
> 
> For those that have had fluffs with severe allergies, please let me know if you have tried any of these items and how they worked. Also if you have a suggestion for something other than the Atopica.
> ...


Lynn,
I called my friend who found a Westie sitting on their front porch one morning - ended up no home or lost, so they kept him - older dog.
He turned out to be allergic to everything, food, airborne stuff. 

She personally found Natural Balance Duck & Potato kibble worked better than the vet prescribed kibble to keep down scratching/biting. She'd mix it with about a tablespoon of the canned NB any of those combos, he really did well on that.

Also he was helped by Atopica for awhile then it stopped working for him; they gave him injections about monthly - really helped him. She will look up what it was if you want.

Also keeping his hair cut as short as possible helped reduce his scratching or biting. Vet told her that works because the longer hair would attract allergens outside that clung to his hair, causing reaction or licking his paws.

I once read that Oatmeal shampoo can set up fungus on them - just thought I'd mention that.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Lynn---as far as fleas, they can set off an episode. No big surprise there, just wanted to say that I used Front line Plus once on Sammie at HH and holy cow did he have a bad reaction, panting, sweating, circling went on all night long. I washed much as I could off him and use Confortis for fleas if needed. 
Penny did fine with FP. 

what the heck is Seborrhea?


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## poochie2 (Jan 14, 2010)

My malt does not have any food allergies but she has severe skin allergies to any products...shampoo, scents, anything that touches her skin. I found out when we'd pick her up from the vets she would scratch herself so much it would bleed. She"d be awake at night whimpering, scratching her skin till it bled. The vet said she was on the severe side and had told me to just use plain water to bathe her. I didn't want to to use any of their prescription shampoos, they were too harsh so I researched and bought a product called "Bobbi Panter Itchy Dog shampoo" . Best thing I have ever used. No more itching . Nothing. It has no salt so it does not dry the skin like other products. Also when we blow dry her it is always on a cool setting...it takes longer but heat irritates the skin even if it a very low heat. Glad you are feeling better today. You are a good mama.


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## Harley & Dakotas Mum (Jun 11, 2005)

Harley had random flare ups on Atopica. Mostly it worked well for him, but then he would randomly have an upset tummy. We stuck with it for over a year but then the randomness became more frequent so I stopped giving it to him. I think you should give Atopica a try for Oliver because it does work & he might be just fine on it.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Kandis -- I would agree that sounds like Oliver. He looks like he's a poorly bred Malt from a BYB and I would guess that he started with a compromised immune system and then the vaccinations or other things caused the allergies. I am lucky that we don't have fleas in New Mexico and Vets seldom, if ever, recommend flea treatments. I remember when I moved here 7 years ago, I had lived in Boca and then Irvine, CA and used Frontline and asked my new vet about it when I got here and he just laughed and laughed and then I thought about when I had been living in Arizona and realized -- this weather is not conducive to fleas. 

Claire -- thanks for that info. I've had pm's from others that have said that a steroid injection a few times a year (when the season for allergies is bad) is needed for their fluffs.

Suggestions from anyone on food? I'm thinking about Dr. Harvey's Veg-to-Bowl (no grains) but don't know what type of protein might be best.


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## Madison's Mom (Dec 26, 2007)

I have a friend who had really good results spritzing his itchy Chi with organic apple cider vinegar. He is now feeding Deli Fresh by Fresh Pet and hasn't had any more itchy episodes.


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## sdubose (Feb 21, 2012)

I use the Tropic clean shampoo now and Abbigails itching has greatly improved. The vet had me giving her 1/2 a childrens claritin every day. After I started the tropiclean shampoo I have been able to take her off of it. Also I try to find salmon favored kibble. Right now using fromm salmon grain free.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Foods....

Yes, avoid most grains, probably avoid them all together for awhile. Then introduce the lower allergy ones like quinoa and millet if you want.

My vet had me feed Gus a lot of cooling foods (Grace too - to lower inflammation in her body). I will find the notes for a full list.

Cooling meats: Beef, Turkey, Duck, Salmon ... She suggested turkey baby food.

Heating meats (avoid): Lamb, pork, chicken

Fruits and veggies: blue berries, cucumbers, celery

Yogurt is a cooling food.

Pumpkin, roots, and squashes are good. So maybe a duck and sweet potato if they have one.

She recommended oatmeal (to eat) only if Gus could tolerate it, because it is actually a very good grain for the gut. But she said steel cut only and we waited until his skin was better. He can eat it alone, no proteins with it.

Coconut oil is good, flax oil, fish oil


For baths - I remembered she had me use Aloe Juice (plain) and Chamomile tea (I'd make a strong batch).... He'd soak in it for 5 minutes (he'd stand in a bin and I'd pour it over him for 5 minutes). It helped flares.

*edit* - I saw smeone mention Fresh Pet -- Gus did great on FP.... the Salmon Vital. It has a lot of good things in it that our vet recommended like the berries, and the Vital is grain free.


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## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

I am betting the honest kitchen may have some formulas to help him. They are great about helping to find ones that work for dogs that have issues. I am betting they would also be willing to send you some samples. If you have time and are willing, I would send them an e mail asking for their suggestions and asking if they wouldn't mind sending a sample or two of what they think would work for him.

All Natural Dog Food | Dehydrated Raw Dog Food | Like Homemade Pet Food


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

shellbeme said:


> I am betting the honest kitchen may have some formulas to help him. They are great about helping to find ones that work for dogs that have issues. I am betting they would also be willing to send you some samples. If you have time and are willing, I would send them an e mail asking for their suggestions and asking if they wouldn't mind sending a sample or two of what they think would work for him.
> 
> All Natural Dog Food | Dehydrated Raw Dog Food | Like Homemade Pet Food



THK makes great foods but it may not work for Oliver.

I was using it with Gus for awhile and his allergies went away for a bit then got worse.

It has too many ingredients and for dogs who are sensitive and their systems are in a flare - their bodies can create more allergies.

So it's a good food, yes... but for allergies dogs, fewer ingredients are best so you can do an elimination test if needed.

You can rotate foods every month so new allergies don't develop.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Lady had horrible allergies, another poorly bred Malt from a BYB. She had a compromised immune system and was diabetic. For awhile she had to constantly be on steroids as the allergic response made it very difficult to regulate her blood sugar. In Lady's case, her blood glucose went DOWN on steroids, which is the opposite of the normal effect.

It worked for a few years until Lady was diagnosed with Iatrogenic Cushings from the steroids. Thankfully it is usually reversible when the steroids arre stopped.

I started Lady on colostrum/Transfer Factor after Terry (Naddie & Quincy's Mom) told me that people were seeing dramatic results in diabetic dogs on it. I tried it and was shocked to see that Lady required about half as much insulin to regulate her diabetes as she normally did. That was my main purpose for adding it as a supplement, but I also saw a dramatic improvement in her allergies over time. I was basically able to stop giving her Zyrtec daily as I had for many years. 

I'd really urge you to read up on it:

Transfer Factor in Veterinary - Canine, Feline, Equine and Livestocks

As I said before, using air purifiers HEPA furnace filters and only perfume and dye free laundry soap helped, too. 

Lady battled staph skin infections for the past few years of her life. Simplecf helped, but I also bathed her monthly in benzoil peroxide shampoo and used benzoil peroxide (Clearasil) on her skin eruptions.

Reality check is that Lady was definitely high maintenance and a huge financial commitment as you know. I spent thousands of dollars a year just to keep her many health issues under control. I loved her and she was my baby girl, but caring for a dog with a chronic illness is not for the faint of heart - or pocketbook. I am glad you feel better about Oliver today, but don't feel guilty if you simply can't take on the responsibility. You work full time, have three other dogs and are still emotionally fragile since losing Jerry.


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

When Chloe's allergies flared up i found doing more frequent baths and using Malaseb shampoo and vinegar rinses helped and doubled up on her fish oil another shampoo you may want to try as maybe a maintenance shampoo is Earthbath, they have one that is Hypo-Allergenic and also a Tea Tree and Aloe one. I found Chloe did best on NB LID Sweet Potato and Venison or Sweet Potato and Fish.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Fresh Pet is a great food, except it's very high in protein if all your giving them like I was (you have to calculate it). I think it was 38 +, someone did it for me. I had to take Sammie and Penny down to treats for the FP and back on the Fromm kibble bec of the protein and I am not that good with the teeth cleaning yet, so 6 mo of FP alone we noticed more tartar build up. 

For Sammie's itching I had great results with *NB Small Bites Fish and SP or Fromm grain free* any of the Fromms work for Sammie. He stopped doing the feet/ear lick itch thing except once in a while he do it for a bit if I give him a bully stick. His ears are so much better now that he is on grain free NB or Fromm and he did well on the FP it just didn't work out for other reasons. He has a #53 bile acid level post feeding, so he is up there as far as watching the prot levels in his foods. But he will never be itch free, I have to accept it.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

mysugarbears said:


> When Chloe's allergies flared up i found doing more frequent baths and using Malaseb shampoo and vinegar rinses helped and doubled up on her fish oil another shampoo you may want to try as maybe a maintenance shampoo is Earthbath, they have one that is Hypo-Allergenic and also a Tea Tree and Aloe one. I found Chloe did best on NB LID Sweet Potato and Venison or Sweet Potato and Fish.



those are the foods we used for Sammie too with great results. I hated that the Venison did not come in small bites though. might be too big for a 10 yr to eat comfortably. I had to break it up with a hand chopper for sammie. but the Fish and SP is great for allergy dogs. Used for yrs till he got tired of it, so I went to Fromm. I switch between the NB Fish and Fromm g. free.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Lynn, 
Can the fact that there were (I rem at least 5, maybe 6) puppies in Sammie's liter play a role in the general health or not? also-if he is in the grass too much, he itches like crazy.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Marj-Thank you for all the info about colostrum/Transfer Factor. 
xxxx


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

You guys are the best. I'm just soaking up all this info and hope that I can get this all sorted out for Oliver and then find him a willing home.

Kandis -- besides not having fleas, I also don't have grass.  Live in a patio home with a small backyard that is concreat, flagstone and gravel with a patch of Synlawn (fake grass). All of my plants are in decorative containers so there's really nothing except the dust/dirt that will bother him. 

Marj -- you're wonderful as always.

Debbie - thanks for the info about the food and shampoo

Tori -- you've been soooooooooooooooo helpful and since we both live here in the SW, I'm sure that the allergents are similar for Gus and Oliver. I did find a Holistic Vet in ABQ which I will contact.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

I know what you are going through, it is one of the most frustrating and sad things to deal with. The problem too with trying too many new things at once is that you don't know what it is that is actually working/not working so it takes a long time to switch things. 

Is he miserable? 

So sorry you are going through this!!


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## ckanen2n (Jan 2, 2012)

Hi Lynn,
Glad you are calmed down now. I missed your other post. I did not read all responses, but I think you are getting some good advice. I would definitely take him to a holistic vet and maybe more than one! Hopefully, there will be some good alternatives. I think dogs are like houses - you just have to find the right buyer and there is a great owner for every dog! Keep you chin up and thank you for your generosity in caring for Oliver!


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

bellaratamaltese said:


> I know what you are going through, it is one of the most frustrating and sad things to deal with. The problem too with trying too many new things at once is that you don't know what it is that is actually working/not working so it takes a long time to switch things.
> 
> Is he miserable?
> 
> So sorry you are going through this!!


Stacey -- I know that you can only change 1 thing at a time and then wait to see if it helps or if things get worse.

When I picked him up on Wednesday (a week ago) he was in a severe outbreak but he's calmed down and is doing much, much better. I'm sure that it's mostly the Pred which we upped last Thursday as well as getting out of the shelter and having less stress.

I thought about you and your journey with Caira after I saw his skin. Not easy to deal with.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Lacie's Mom said:


> You guys are the best. I'm just soaking up all this info and hope that I can get this all sorted out for Oliver and then find him a willing home.
> 
> Kandis -- besides not having fleas,* I also don't have grass.  Live in a patio home with a small backyard that is concreat, flagstone and gravel with a patch of Synlawn (fake grass). All of my plants are in decorative containers so there's really nothing except the dust/dirt that will bother him. *
> 
> ...



:HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley:

Lynn - I said almost the EXACT same thing to Dr. Julie when I saw her LOL.... and guess what? Gus is allergic to dirt.

DIRT! Because dirt has a lot of stuff in it actually :huh:

But that made me laugh so much LOL


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

So glad you are feeling better about it today. You got very good information from all the posts. I cannot add anything to it. I had Oscar from 1984 to 1996, this is a long time ago. I did not had all this new information. He already had an ear infection when I got him but his full blown allergies started when he was 2 years old. He was on prednisone and hydroxizine all the time. At least Oliver is not diabetic. Like Stacy said it's frustrating to deal with it.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Good info here---can it be made into a stick for allergies for pups?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

It just occurred to me that if Oliver got allergy shots for awhile, he was tested for allergies. Did they give you a copy of his results? If not I am sure they will. Knowing exactly what he is allergic to will help tremendously.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Another thing to think about Lynn - Little Oliver popped into my head last night 

Gus was obviously a puppy mill puppy, so his start was not good and our Holistic vet says he probably started out with a lot of inflammation in his gut. Then he had a bad case of giardia that was misdiagnosed, and so it went untreated which caused even more inflammation.

Basically her theory (and even my own NMD's beliefs with her own patients, including me) is that inflammation is the culprit in animals that are "allergic to everything", or have "chronic" conditions (like Colitis). They may test negative for allergens but still have symptoms... they may test positive for a whole laundry list of things. But it is all about inflammation.

The Prednisone -- steroids lower inflammation. The problem is they also cause it in the long run, and they suppress the immune system more, so instead of lowering inflammation and building the immune system up, it basically makes them weaker and more in need of the steroids. It's a viscous cycle.

Not saying steroids are horrible - they have their place.... but it's basically a bandaid fix like I said yesterday.

But that's why she started Gus out with things that would lower his inflammation - herbs that would soothe and calm his system, cooling foods (because inflammation is "heat" - remember how hot his skin was the first day?).... cooling essential oils for baths...

So while he is still on his usual treatment and you are in the search for alternatives -- I'd suggest looking less at allergies and more at inflammation. Even if you can only find good information about it pertaining to humans... it is the same in regards to what it does to the body. If you can get his inflammation down... the immune system will be stronger and his Atopy Dermatitis will be much more manageable.


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