# Help



## Guest (Sep 12, 2007)

Ok all you experts what Im I doing wrong. I keep Lily in a topknot because I like the palm tree puff on the top of her head. Only problem is her hair is breaking off on top of her head. What Im I doing wrong. I use the baby elastics and redo it every night. any suggestions are appreciated. The rest of her coat is not breaking just on top of her head.

Thanks


----------



## kiki & pippin's mom (Jun 5, 2007)

Me too! Arrgh! Do we need to use the wrappers or mesh to protect the hair? (It does get tangled in the elastics…I even bought the 'slippery' ones…and they did the most harm! GRRRRR


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Do you use the bands made especially for grooming? The cheapie ones from Walmart, etc. will break the hair.

You can get high quality grooming bands here:

http://www.dog-bows.com/cgi-bin/TheFinishi...&category=0

http://www.laineeltd.com/

I have always used the mesh wrapping papers from Sally's. Not only does it protect the hair, it also makes it easier to get the bows on and off. I know many people don't use papers, but they tell me they put conditioner in the hair before putting the band in.

How do you remove the band? If you are pulling and tugging at it, that is probably what is breaking the hair. You need to get a good pair of band removal scissors. Both the above links carry them.



[attachment=26655:scissors.jpg]


----------



## makettle29 (Nov 12, 2005)

I cut the rubber bands off instead of trying to save them. I even have special sissors for the job  they work too! I also use a wide tooth comb (afro pick) to comb through any tangles.

that's all I know,
mary anna


----------



## wooflife (Aug 8, 2007)

I've been using the kind you get from the orthodontist - my groomer gave them to me - and pulling them out and I've had some breakage too. 

I'm going to have buy some of my own soon. How do you know what size to buy?


Leslie and Izzy


----------



## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Believe me, I feel your pain with breaking topknot hair. It's very frustrating! 

The bands I use are these ones

http://www.showoffproducts.com/bands.htm

They are the medium size 5/16th fine weight. They cause the least amount of damage and I HATE it when I run out of them, LOL! 

My girls like to rub their heads against their beds, esp if they are in a donut bed. Having a silk bed or a silk pillowcase over the bed causes the least amount of damage. I also use either Vellus Satin Creme or Megatek under the bands and that seems to work a little bit. But I still get breakage, it's seems unavoidable. I put two bands in the topknot, I find that it keeps the hair contained better
[attachment=26660:IMG_5178.jpg]

I dont' put bows in on a day to day basis, I just keep the top knot banded like this. If you find something that prevents the breakage completely, please let me know!


----------



## paris (Apr 8, 2005)

When I put a bow on Paris, I use the CC Silk Spirits (any liquid silk stuff would work). I put a dab on my fingers and just work it in her hair and the band on the bow. This really helps me with keeping her hair from breaking off when I take the bow out. I also use the scissors for taking her everyday topknot down. These scissors are one of the things I wouldn't be without.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> I've been using the kind you get from the orthodontist - my groomer gave them to me - and pulling them out and I've had some breakage too.
> 
> I'm going to have buy some of my own soon. How do you know what size to buy?
> 
> ...


I get the 1/4". I use them on Lady's topknot and on my bows. I get the medium weight.

The band removal scissors are a must have!


----------



## Bella Rose (Mar 21, 2006)

> The bands I use are these ones
> 
> http://www.showoffproducts.com/bands.htm
> 
> They are the medium size 5/16th fine weight. They cause the least amount of damage and I HATE it when I run out of them, LOL![/B]


I was just about to post these Stacy! Thanks! These are the bands I use too... they are very, very good and seem to cause the least breakage of any other's I've tried. I can't recommend them enough! And the little scissors to cut the bands are a MUST have! But.... before you go and get them from one of the places that have been mentioned, try looking around on eBay for "suture scissors"... that's what they actually are and you just might find them cheaper.... I did!


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I don't think you can totally avoid breakage. :bysmilie: Even showdogs
have some. :shocked: It's important to be sure the topknot isn't too
tight. :w00t: It's also important no hair from the root of the ears (
even a tiny bit) is incorporated into the topknot. :smhelp: I sometimes do the 
piggyback topknots too as in Lucy's pic. :mellow: No matter what you
do, if the dog rubs his/her head they will get breakage. :smcry: It's
just a fact of dog life. :blink:
The 5/16 inch causes less stress on the hair. Any smaller and it gets to be
too tight. I wrap the band around once after putting it on the topknot hair.


----------



## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=435727
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I am in absolute love with these bands, LOL! I noticed Bella had them in her hair in those pics you just posted! Sooo cute! And you're right, the band scissors are a must have. I have a lot of pairs of them lying around, I'm always losing my band scissors (I know, you're shocked, aren't you? :smilie_daumenpos: )


----------



## Guest (Sep 13, 2007)

Thankyou for all the helpful information. I do use band sissors to take them out but I guess I need to order some bands. Lily does like to rub her head right after I put them in. I do keep bows in her hair and I love making cute ones for her. I will try the silk conditioner and see if that helps too. She looks like a miniature st bernard if I don't do a top knot + I can't see her beautiful eyes. I bought her a really cute Halloween costume today and it is her first piece of clothing. I will take some pictures soon and post them. I am so glad to have all of you for help.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Is Lily's topknot too tight? That may be why she rubs her head right after you put it in. Try to loosen it a bit with the end of a rat tail comb after you do it and see if that helps.


----------



## Guest (Sep 13, 2007)

Ill give it a try and Im going to order the bands you recommended tomorrow. I think she should be used to the bow since I have had one in her hair since the day I brought her home. Another question will it hurt to leave a top knot in when I take her for her vet visit next week. It's spay time and I would rather they leave it in since her hair is sota long and she makes a horrible mess if it's left down.


----------



## Missy&Maggie (Jun 17, 2007)

I have to say that the type of band makes a world of difference. I used to use the baby bands from Target and Walmart and Maggie would rub her head like crazy to get the top knot out. After doing some band research on SM, I ordered the bands that Marj use and love them. Maggie does not rub her head on stuff really anymore and doesn't mind her top knot. We also love the band scissors. I hope that this helps! :biggrin:


----------



## wooflife (Aug 8, 2007)

I left Izzy's top knot in when they spayed her. Other wise the poor thing would have been in pain and blind. They didn't take it out. In fact I think it help her milk them for more attention. :biggrin: 


Leslie and Izzy


----------



## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

Great information to read here! Midis is a nutcase about his topknot but I still haven't given up re-doing it everyday. Because he jerks around so much while I'm trying to do it of course he's got breakage (and even "cuttage" from me having to cut out a band or a matt), and he also does that run the head on the couch after I get finished. Because of all of that I make a little bun on his head instead of a ponytail, and forget trying to do cute ones side by side or even piggyback! I wish I could. Anyway, I just read everyone's advice and went to the link and ordered the best bands and band scissors on the website. I will also start using some conditioner of some kind under the band and hope we can salvage the topknot. (Because of the slip lead I keep on him while we are home I had to cut out a big clump of neck hair last night that was in a mat! He's a rowdy pup! I comb him at a minimum of every-other-day and and still can't seem to prevent the mats from forming wherever anything else comes in contact with his hair!) 
See pictures below.


----------



## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

Cyndi, you do a great job with Midis' grooming! He looks so good in all your pictures! What a pretty boy! Have you considering wrapping his topknot? You can get the mesh papers at Sally's beauty supply and it will protect his topknot from breaking! Make sure it's not pulling too tight on his head either, that will make him want to rub it out. BTW- I will be doing some shows soon in Dian's area..maybe you can come and we can meet! 

Andrea


----------



## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

> Cyndi, you do a great job with Midis' grooming! He looks so good in all your pictures! What a pretty boy! Have you considering wrapping his topknot? You can get the mesh papers at Sally's beauty supply and it will protect his topknot from breaking! Make sure it's not pulling too tight on his head either, that will make him want to rub it out. BTW- I will be doing some shows soon in Dian's area..maybe you can come and we can meet!
> 
> Andrea[/B]


Oh, I would absolutely LOVE to meet you, Andrea! And thank you about the compliment on grooming. If you could see where I had to cut that chunk of hair out of his neck area last night I don't think you would be quite so complimentary, though. 
It's hard to understand how these mats can form right under my eyes like that; so badly that I have to cut out this huge hunk! But Dian did explain to me that at 10 months he is coming into his adult coat, so that might be why.

I can't imagine trying to wrap his topknot! It is such a struggle to even get it combed through and in the band! Although, just to brag a bit on his behavior, the last two days I have noticed that he gave up toward the end of our struggle and allowed me to finish the job without jerking around. I just hate to pull his hair and hurt him, but it is quite impossible not to when he jerks like that. (He practically stands on his head to avoid topknot grooming! The rest of the grooming, well, include the face as another difficult area, the REST of the grooming he is really great about!)

BinnieBee aka Cyndi


----------



## Aarianne (Jul 22, 2005)

Cyndi, I got a grooming pillow and that solved the head jerking problem I had with Zora. It may or may not work for you but it might be worth a try. 

Lainee's site has them. I ordered mine from Boucles Perle Blanche in Canada as hers were cheaper and it looks the same as the Lainee ones (except that my dogs chewed off the lace one day... but I prefer them without the lace anyway :thumbsup: ).


----------



## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> Cyndi, I got a grooming pillow and that solved the head jerking problem I had with Zora. It may or may not work for you but it might be worth a try.
> 
> Lainee's site has them. I ordered mine from Boucles Perle Blanche in Canada as hers were cheaper and it looks the same as the Lainee ones (except that my dogs chewed off the lace one day... but I prefer them without the lace anyway :thumbsup: ).[/B]


Yep, I have to agree here, if I dont' have a topknot pillow around Caira's neck, i cna forget about trying to do her topknot.


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Soda hates the top knot pillow. I use a folded up towel and he likes it. 

The matts around the lead are somewhat of a hopeless endeavor. Soda wears a show lead for walking...and he walks like 2 miles so its on for a bit. I've been putting Cowboy Magic on his neck right before we leave and it has been helping. Its almost like those silk liquid, but you can get it at the feed store. A bottle lasts forever. 

What kind of conditioner are ya'll putting on the top knot hair? I finally started banding Soda's face, too...he's killing his coat!


----------



## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

> Great information to read here! Midis is a nutcase about his topknot but I still haven't given up re-doing it everyday. Because he jerks around so much while I'm trying to do it of course he's got breakage (and even "cuttage" from me having to cut out a band or a matt), and he also does that run the head on the couch after I get finished. Because of all of that I make a little bun on his head instead of a ponytail, and forget trying to do cute ones side by side or even piggyback! I wish I could. Anyway, I just read everyone's advice and went to the link and ordered the best bands and band scissors on the website. I will also start using some conditioner of some kind under the band and hope we can salvage the topknot. (Because of the slip lead I keep on him while we are home I had to cut out a big clump of neck hair last night that was in a mat! He's a rowdy pup! I comb him at a minimum of every-other-day and and still can't seem to prevent the mats from forming wherever anything else comes in contact with his hair!)
> See pictures below.[/B]


Hi! Any time you leave a collar on a maltese in coat it will mat. I don't even use belly bands on a dog in coat it will mat the hair where the legs move. Any time something tight is put onto the coat of a maltese you can get breakage and matting actually its called webbing of the hair. When I am showing a dog I use end papers to wrap around the hair then fold it over and then band it. If you get the hair too tight (and you may not know it) but the dog can feel it and off they go to rub against anything to get it loose. While he is a puppy his coat will mat easily. Especially so when the hair gets to 4 inches. I call that the mat stage. To keep this in check I use a leave in conditioner in the coat. Put it on and then rinse lightly leaving some in the coat then blow dry. It doesn't matter what kind try it and see if it will work for his coat. 
Are you wanting to grow coat on Midis? He is a pretty puppy. 
Welcome to the world of trying to grow coat on a Maltese :smpullhair: :smilie_tischkante: 
Tina


----------



## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=450465
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tina,
Thanks so much for your advice. I had a Malt for 14 years (which I lost in February) but I just had him professionally groomed every two weeks. A different period in my life....I want to do almost all of Midis' grooming myself. 

I do not use a collar (though, of course, have purchased and own several....duh to me!) so bought a lightweight slip lead because the little one likes to play "catch me if you can!" whenever you reach down to pick him up! It is frustrating and also means we would have no control whatsoever as to where he is or what he is doing, and so I thought the slip-lead would help that. And it certainly does. But with the pros so go the cons, i.e., the matted hair. Even after one day! I do not leave the slip lead on when he is in his night-time crate, when he is sleeping in the bed with me or when he is in his daytime crate. So, that means this slip lead is on him (loosely) about 6 hours a day during the week and about 18 hours a day on weekends when I am with him constantly.

I will never show Midis, so I am not letting the coat grow for that purpose and so will also not wrap and band his hair as you have to for a show coat. But I just love the beauty of the breed and Midis is certainly blessed with his good genes in the quality of coat area. So I will keep him in full coat as long as is feasable. Like my last Malt, when it gets to be too much hassell for them and I'm cutting out more than I'm combing, then it is time to start over! Midis is not there yet. I hope we don't ever get there. 

Thanks!

Cyndi


----------



## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

> Believe me, I feel your pain with breaking topknot hair. It's very frustrating!
> 
> The bands I use are these ones
> 
> ...


Thank all of you so much for your suggestions! I ordered the bands and the scissors from the website ShowOffproducts. com on Wednesday and got them on Friday! (Ordered from here in TN from CA!!!) Anyway, I had a trip to my granddaughters' birthday parties West TN today and got Midis all done up (with double piggy-back tails!) with my new bands and the aid of my new scissors. I couldn't believe it! He actually held still for it and he hasn't tried to take them out! He was just a doll and a hit with the relatives! Nobody had seen him since May, so this was the first time for them all to see him as an adult in full (nearly) coat.

I took pics last night but they did not turn out so that they showed the double-tail. I'll take another tomorrow after I re-do them. He is just wiped out tonight from the 6 hours of riding and all the may children at the birthday party!

Cyndi


----------



## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

Oh I can't wait to see them, Cyndi! :aktion033:


----------



## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

I cannot beleive what a tremendous difference the correct bands make! Midis was not as still while I was putting his topknot up again this morning so it is a little messier than it was yesterday but the point is he is NOT pulling at these new bands at all! And not only that but those scissors help so much because I do not have to RIP the old band out so it saves his topknot hair and the whole painful ordeal. Below are pictures with his double top knot. (This is also after I trimmed the hair in the corner of his eyes.)


----------



## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> I cannot beleive what a tremendous difference the correct bands make! Midis was not as still while I was putting his topknot up again this morning so it is a little messier than it was yesterday but the point is he is NOT pulling at these new bands at all! And not only that but those scissors help so much because I do not have to RIP the old band out so it saves his topknot hair and the whole painful ordeal. Below are pictures with his double top knot. (This is also after I trimmed the hair in the corner of his eyes.)[/B]


Oh he looks great!! I'm so glad the yellow bands worked for you, I really like them. I never even thought aobut the fact that my dogs might like them better, I just like the minimal hair breakage with them!


----------



## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

Midis is just so :wub: Thanks for the pictures :biggrin:


----------

