# Cooper had Bladder Stone Surgery yesterday!



## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

They've sent out the crystals/stones for testing so we have not talked about a food change in detail as of yet. But am looking for possible suggestions.

He's been on a grain free food for years...and I'm thinking the high protein has a lot to do with why he developed stones....so I'm looking to come off of that.

Is canned the way to go..or is there a good non prescription dry food that someone could suggest. If for nothing else...it would be a food we could use until the results come back and my vet gives me suggestions.

The vet assistant already mentioned that the vet will likely want to put him on science diet rx food. I've always been told science diet is not good...so I don't know what to do.

BTW- Cooper is almost 9 and also very over weight...so I was hoping to find something lower in fat as well.

Any help would be very appreciated.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Any canned food is fine for now. The idea is to have an increased water intake to help flush things through. Once you know the type of stone, you can have one of the vet schools formulate a home cooked diet to help prevent them. That is your only alternative to prescription foods. There are no over the counter foods that meet the needs of stone prevention.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Hope Cooper's stones are nothing, and that you can find the right diet for him.

Good to see you post! I missed seeing pictures of your little ones.


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## Canada (Jun 4, 2009)

Just wanted to wish you good vibes for Copper's bladder stone issue. :hugging:


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

jmm said:


> Any canned food is fine for now. The idea is to have an increased water intake to help flush things through. Once you know the type of stone, you can have one of the vet schools formulate a home cooked diet to help prevent them. That is your only alternative to prescription foods. There are no over the counter foods that meet the needs of stone prevention.


Thank you!

How do I get a vet school to formulate a diet for me? I did a search and saw some were feeding cooked rice and veggies for bladder stone prevention.

Hi, Bonnie's. mommie - Hope you are well. I haven't been on in ages...just haven't had time...especially with a house full of kids during summer break. 

Canada, thank you! Right now things are very hard. Cooper is bleeding a lot and straining a lot. I can't wait until he is fully recovered...my heart breaks for him.

BTW - is there a good food for prevention. I don't want Gracie ending up with stones down the road. I've always fed grain free...wondering if I should take her off?


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Poor Cooper! I hope he feels better soon! At this point, I would wait for the test results. I wouldn't feed him Science diet Rx either. Have you been feeding dry all this time? If so, Cooper may need more moisture in his diet, as well as less protein.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Oh Weh!
Poor Cooper. Kisses little man. Praying for you now.


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

aprilb said:


> Poor Cooper! I hope he feels better soon! At this point, I would wait for the test results. I wouldn't feed him Science diet Rx either. Have you been feeding dry all this time? If so, Cooper may need more moisture in his diet, as well as less protein.


My thoughts are completely in line with yours. Yes my dogs only eat dry food. I've never fed wet due to the mess it can make with their white faces - but at this point I'm thinking otherwise.

I picked up a few cans of Blue Buffalo and that is what I'm going to feed Cooper for now. It's gotta be better than the dry. The vet said it can take anywhere from 2-4 weeks to get the results..and I'm not waiting a month to change his diet...that's just too long to wait.

Edelweiss, thank you for the prayers, I appreciate them.


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

Aww poor sweetie,how's he doing today...
We feed Pro Plan dental and keep lots of water in the bowls. They pee a lot but we know they're getting flushed out..
WE did Royal Canin Dental but our vet stopped carrying it and we live in a rural area to hard to get anything really good.


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## jodublin (Sep 27, 2006)

hugs for cooper get well soon little fella xx


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## almitra (Apr 24, 2009)

Hoping Cooper bounces back real quick--he's very blessed to have a mommy who loves him so much and stops at nothing to find just exactly the right food for him to prevent any further stone issues.  ((hugs to Cooper))


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Hope Cooper is doing OK. Sweetness has a history of crystals and is on Royal Canin prescription for that - it's not great but seems to be better than Science Diet. We order it from Pet Food Online | Dog & Cat Supplies & Products | PetFoodDirect.com.

Good luck!


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

jodublin said:


> hugs for cooper get well soon little fella xx


Thank you! 

Almitra, I can't wait to see him back to normal. Ya, I really will do anything I can to try and keep my babies healthy. I do not like the thought of having to use Science Diet or Royal Canine RX - and from what I've been reading it seems those are the two top urinary foods...neither impress me as far as ingredients go though. 

Michellerobison - thank you for asking. He's actually not doing to well today. He has been passing an obscene amount of blood and just plain ol' leaking blood everywhere. And whats even sadder is listening to him whimper - it's breaking my heart. I did call the vet and he assured me that everything is fine and normal. He said it'll be a good week before the blood will subside and he starts feeling better.


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

maggieh said:


> Hope Cooper is doing OK. Sweetness has a history of crystals and is on Royal Canin prescription for that - it's not great but seems to be better than Science Diet. We order it from Pet Food Online | Dog & Cat Supplies & Products | PetFoodDirect.com.
> 
> Good luck!


Has it kept her from getting anymore? Like I said neither food impresses me, but if it takes care of the problem...I can see me succumbing.


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## almitra (Apr 24, 2009)

I have NO doubt it's a tough decision to make (the food issue), but sometimes one has to weight the benefits and against the drawbacks...and I can see you are thinking this thru carefully, making NO rush decisions. I am confident you'll do what is in your baby boy's best interest, girlfriend. I pray for a speedy recovery for your tiny angel. {{hugs}} for you both.


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## revakb2 (Sep 8, 2006)

I hope Cooper feels better soon.


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Hugs to Cooper. I hope that he is feeling better soon.
My Lhasa, Grendel, had stones too. It is extremely important to know what kind of stones they are to know how to treat them.
Grendel had calcium oxalate stones. After he had surgery to remove them, the vet said to feed either a special Hills or Royal Canin diet forever. I was very concerned about the quality of both and was told that there was no guarantee that feeding these foods would prevent the stones from reforming. I also went to a vet nutritionist at a well known animal hospital who told me the same thing. I was not willing to accept that he was going to have to have repeat surgeries.After much research, I was able to find a diet called "fuzzier food"by a woman named Leslie Bean. It is a homemade diet with supplements to try to prevent stones from reforming and to break down existing stones. It is based on research on what people with kidney stones eat and avoid. At first, I was really intimidated by the idea of home cooking, and a little skeptical, but I decided it was worth it if it prevented additional surgeries. By the time we started the diet, Grendel had about two dozen new stones formed. Luckily,none were causing a blockage, so we had time to try the diet. It took about six months, but the stones did dissolve on their own and never came back.Our vet never would have believed it if we didn't have the ultrasounds to prove it. There is a related group on yahoo, k9kidney diet, for more info. It was a lot of work but so worth it in the end so that he didn't have to have surgery again. I definitely recommend looking into it if Cooper's stones turn out to be calcium oxalate.


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## Bibu (Jun 3, 2010)

Poor Cooper! It must be so tough to see him strain. Sending prayers his way!


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Your vet contacts the school Nutrition :: Veterinary Health Complex :: North Carolina State University College of Veterinary Medicine


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Poor Cooper. And poor you. An awful ordeal to go through. This is why I always say kibble is not the best way to go. No dog or cat can drink enough to make up for the lack of moisture in kibble and when eating a higher protein kibble, which most of the better foods are, you do run this risk. If someone must feed kibble, I always stress the importance of adding water to it and letting it soak. 

I agree you need to find out what type of stones they are and perhaps then work in conjunction with a holistic vet in getting the proper ph balance in his urine with a tincture like Tinkle Tonic from Animal Essentials. It would require regular checking of his ph level.

In the meantime, switch to a good canned food or a dehydrated mix that you reconstitute with equal amounts water. If working with a holistic vet, they can help you with a food that you are more comfortable feeding. And definitely get Gracie on a good canned or dehydrated food. Grain free is fine as long as there is a lot of moisture in it.

And I agree...it's so nice seeing you post again. I've missed you and those precious babies of yours.


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## poochie2 (Jan 14, 2010)

My malt has dealt with 2 uti's with crystals and I have to say MOISTURE in the food is at the top of the list. Also I do not use tap water cause my vet says it has too many minerals that can affect this as well. I rotate between bottled and distilled.
Also my vet says the food should be low in phospourous and not too high in protein. I researched every single food and I have found that Weruva canned food was a good choice and also I wanted a kibble that was healthy since I refused to buy the prescription diet. I found this Petcurean Pet Nutrition small breed formula , grain-free. It has moderate protein, good amount of calcium and the lowest phospourous of any kibble. I always add extra water to the canned food to make it soupy as well. This is what worked for us. 
Also, another member mentioned ph level. This is important too. If their urine is too alkaline they can develop stones. You have to try to keep it acidic. Lots of water and mostly a canned diet.
Good-Luck:thumbsup:


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

Thank you all so much for the such wonderful information. This is why I love this place so much! Everyone is so willing to help and share their experiences and knowledge! You guys are the best!


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## Bailey&Me (Mar 8, 2010)

Oh I'm so sorry that Cooper is going through such a rough time right now  I know you are being a wonderful mommy to him and taking such good care of him that he will be all better soon! Regarding food, I have not had any experience dealing with kidney stones with my dog, but from what I know, I think moisture is key to preventing stones in the future. See what the vet says once the tests come back, but I think keeping him on a good canned food for right now is your best bet. My Bailey is on canned food and dehydrated raw (I use Party Animal Organic canned food and The Honest Kitchen dehydrated raw...I rotate but this is what he is getting right now)

Based on what the tests reveal regarding Cooper's stones, you could do some research in to the best diet for him at that point. But I think the Blue Buffalo canned food you got is good for now. Hope Cooper feels better soon!!!


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

We got the stone results today. They were Calcium Oxalate stones. The Vets office is recommending Science Diet WD or Royal Canine.

I completely and whole heartedly disagree. Everything, and I mean everything I have read says with this type of stone to avoid any type of corn and soy! The prescription SD has both of these ingredients. Not only that, corn is the 1st ingredient! :smilie_tischkante:

Hill's Prescription Diet w/d Canine Dry Food | PetFoodDirect

I'm also reading over and over that there are no guarantees when using these prescription type foods...and that the likely hood of redeveloping these type of stones is great irregardless if you use this food or not.

After hours of reading...I have decided that a low protein, turkey canned food is the way to go. And adding extra water to the canned food (like mentioned above) is the route I'm going to take.

I will not feed the prescription food with such poor quality ingredients...and not only poor ingredients...they go against the recommendations. How odd?! Besides, Cooper is allergic to chicken, and corn...and all these prescription foods have both of those ingredients. (((shrug)))

If anyone has any hard core facts that go against anything I've been reading, please enlighten me. I'm not out to prove prescription foods wrong....I'm merely going on some facts and trying to make a very hard decision that will give my baby the best quality of life.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

I don't know how I missed this thread the first time around. Probably out of town at the time. I'm so sorry Cooper's going through this but happy you got the results and can go from there. I have no advice but sounds like you've gotten quite a bit to go on here. So many vets just hand out (or really sell) the prescriptive diet brands. I just don't get it. It's like doctor's pushing pills that the sales reps give them without really researching them. I hope you figure out a good healthy diet. Maybe you can find a holistic vet in your area or another vet who might listen more to your concerns.
But I really want to know how Cooper's feeling now?


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

Snowbody said:


> I don't know how I missed this thread the first time around. Probably out of town at the time. I'm so sorry Cooper's going through this but happy you got the results and can go from there. I have no advice but sounds like you've gotten quite a bit to go on here. So many vets just hand out (or really sell) the prescriptive diet brands. I just don't get it. It's like doctor's pushing pills that the sales reps give them without really researching them. I hope you figure out a good healthy diet. Maybe you can find a holistic vet in your area or another vet who might listen more to your concerns.
> But I really want to know how Cooper's feeling now?


Cooper is slow to recover! He had surgery on 11th...and is still having a few accidents due to urges to pee frequently! They are not due to behavior. They are getting better....but the vet seems to think he shouldn't be having them anymore. But he's an older dog, almost 9 and I'm not sure why people think dogs should recover so quickly anyway. It's only been 3 weeks so I would think a few accidents here and there is acceptable. Other than that....he is doing well. No more bleeding and his scar has healed up nicely. Thank you for asking!


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Again I strongly recommend a nutrition consult for a properly-formulated home cooked diet.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

Dear little Cooper. I'm sure he will recover completely. Ru Ru had kidney stones many years ago, I did give her the prescription diet for about six weeks and changed to bottled water. She never had any symptoms again.

The only thing I want to add, and you probably already know this, but just in case. No spinach! There a few other veggies that are high in oxalic acid as well. 

Get well little boy.:smootch:


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Sorry little Cooper had to go thru the surgery but glad he is on the mend. 
You might consider geting urine test strips for monitoring Ph as the ph can set up the 'environment' for crystal/stone formation if too far either way on the scale.It's myunderstanding that keeping Ph at abt 6.5 was good place to be. ( Though from time to time can go a bit off this helps you see if overall the Ph is where it should be to help avoid stone formation.) 

Here's a link with info on the stones from a Bichon site ( Bichons can tend to form stones) , and the second gives info on foods to avoid:

BH Articles

Scrolling down will list their suggestions of foods to avoid.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Missed this thread before, poor Cooper, that is very hard on them. My Sophie, bichon, had 7 huge stones in her bladder, vet couldn't believe how huge they were for such a little girl. This was a few years ago, she took quite a while to get back to normal after the operation, months I would say, it must be a very painful procedure. She was put onto Wathams SO which is now Royal Canin SO. Although I probably wouldn't do that these days, she never had any problems again with stones. She mainly free fed on the dry, but with some added homecooked. She had the stones removed when she was also around 9 and was tested years later with no indication of stones at all. So I guess the royal canin worked ok for her. She died of CHF at 14, so unrelated. She never totally got over the surgery though. She always sat to the side and seemed uncomfortable after that. I hope that your Cooper gets back to fighting fit in no time.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

2maltese4me said:


> We got the stone results today. They were Calcium Oxalate stones. The Vets office is recommending Science Diet WD or Royal Canine.
> 
> I completely and whole heartedly disagree. Everything, and I mean everything I have read says with this type of stone to avoid any type of corn and soy! The prescription SD has both of these ingredients. Not only that, corn is the 1st ingredient! :smilie_tischkante:
> 
> ...


I don't have any facts, or even ideas for you. But, I will say this - I really think that - as Sue said - vets may push certain foods without really understanding the relationship with some ingredients and how they can affect your individual dog. Also, I think that your instincts are probably better - you've done your research and you KNOW Cooper! Obviously, he can't have chicken and corn (DUH, vet??). Go with your gut.


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