# What came first, Maltese or Bichon?



## Nucci (Feb 17, 2006)

I always assumed that Maltese came from Bichons and that Havanese were another type of Bichon. Someone told me that actually, Bichons came from Maltese.
Anyone knows the answer?


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## Aarianne (Jul 22, 2005)

This might be of interest to you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bichon









A bunch of breeds such as the havanese, bolognese, maltese and bichon frise are all part of the "bichon" family of dogs... all related. I don't think you can make it so simple as saying one comes from the other or vice-versa... but they share ancestry. It has always been my impression that maltese are the oldest of the bichon breeds that still lives today, but that doesn't mean the bichon family nor bichon frise necessarily "came from them".


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

I don't believe that the Maltese is in any way related to the Bichon. According the the History of the Maltese from the AKC Kennel Club Book on Maltese The Maltese is the most anciet lap dog of the Western World. Charles Darwin placed the breed as havind exited around 6000 BC with models of the same dog being found that are 2,000 years older than that. 

The book further states that the Maltese contributed to the ancestral breeding of the Pekingese. Their history is traced to the Isle of Malta as well as the Courts of Impreial Rome. They have also been found to have been closely involved in Egyptian culture between 600 and 300 BC. Aristotle is credited with the first written history of the breed around 350BC in Greece.

It does say that the Maltese should not be confused with today's Bichon Frise depsite the fact that it has at times been called Bichon. I don't know where the Bichon hails from but suspect it is a much newer breed.


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

The Bichon Frise is of Mediterranean ancestry. His oldest ancestor is the Barbet, or Water Spaniel, from which the name Barbichon cam, later shortened to Bichon. Also descended from the Barbet are the Caniche, or Poodle, and the Maltese. They have certain similarities because of their common ancestry, but each long ago became a separate breed.

The Barbichon group of dogs evolved into four breeds: The Bichon Bolognese, the Bichon Havanese, the Bichon Maltese and the Bichon Tenerife. From the Bichon Tenerife came today's Bichon Frise.


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

I had never heard of the Barbet so looked it up, below was cut and pasted from the internet. 

"Exact roots of the Barbet are forever lost, but most likely they stem from corded sheep dogs from Asia and, possibly, early griffon hounds. Woolly water dogs were found throughout 14th-century Europe, answering to various names, i.e., the wasserhund meaning water dog. Although not the source of all water dogs, the Barbet is very likely closest to the original type. The Barbet is most generic of water dogs, with a woolly sheep-dog coat and hair all over, allowing him to withstand hours in water and chilly marshes. He resembles a pointing dog, but is slower and heavier of body, without the keen nose or sleek beauty. Sixteenth-century cynologist Fou-illoux dubbed him the Barbet, from barbe, a French designation for beard; his pseudonym, laineux., translates into woolly."

Their history does not appear to go back as far as the Maltese. The Bichon CLub Web site gives the above link to Maltese but everywhere else seems to indicate that the Maltese came first. Is that kinda like which came first, the chicken or the egg??

Here's an interesting link from a breeders website that gives a good Maltese history
http://www.annasheavenlymaltese.com/maltese_history.html

Here is a Maltese History By Lee Weston:
http://www.barkbytes.com/history/maltse.htm


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## Nucci (Feb 17, 2006)

Thank you all for your answers, although it seems that it goes everywhere, no?


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

> I don't believe that the Maltese is in any way related to the Bichon. According the the History of the Maltese from the AKC Kennel Club Book on Maltese The Maltese is the most anciet lap dog of the Western World. Charles Darwin placed the breed as havind exited around 6000 BC with models of the same dog being found that are 2,000 years older than that.
> 
> The book further states that the Maltese contributed to the ancestral breeding of the Pekingese. Their history is traced to the Isle of Malta as well as the Courts of Impreial Rome. They have also been found to have been closely involved in Egyptian culture between 600 and 300 BC. Aristotle is credited with the first written history of the breed around 350BC in Greece.
> 
> It does say that the Maltese should not be confused with today's Bichon Frise depsite the fact that it has at times been called Bichon. I don't know where the Bichon hails from but suspect it is a much newer breed.[/B]


 

Don't believe everything you read. Nobody knows exactly the origins. There are many versions going around. And it's not because he is called Maltese that he necessarily had his origins in Malta. The Bichon is as old a breed as the Maltese. In France, the Maltese is called a Bichon Maltais. Where do you think the curly hair of some Maltese in coming from ? They probably have some leftover bichon in them.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

ok, I found you something about the Bichon frisé on a French website.



QUOTE<div class='quotemain'> 

So apparently, the Maltese was there before the bichon frisé.


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## May468 (Dec 5, 2006)

I'v alway thought it was a mix of Maltese and poodle.. No matter how old there "breed" is.

There are *Old* Paintings clearly showing Maltese dogs. 
Aren't Poodles french? So someone mixed the breeds and called something new. 

Like today's "Morkie" 


I vote for Maltese being the oldest breed.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

[/QUOTE] 



Don't believe everything you read. Nobody knows exactly the origins. There are many versions going around. And it's not because he is called Maltese that he necessarily had his origins in Malta. The Bichon is as old a breed as the Maltese. In France, the Maltese is called a Bichon Maltais. Where do you think the curly hair of some Maltese in coming from ? They probably have some leftover bichon in them.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, I believe the curly hair of some Maltese comes from a more recent source - the mixing of Bichon and Maltese by unscrupulous breeders.

http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/maltesesize.htm


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## ladypup (Oct 22, 2006)

it is commonly believed that the Maltese and other white dogs with black points came from the Bichon.


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## NYC Neighborhood Dogs (Nov 12, 2006)

The Maltese is a spaniel genetically, and, I've never heard of it being coming from the Bichon, except in puppy mills where Bichon is introduced to get larger litters.


The confusion comes simply from the names, not the lines of the two breeds.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

No matter which came first, the Maltese is the best and for me the last breed I will ever have!!!!!


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