# Yogi has a NEW Brother



## Five Furs

ATTENTION everyone Nickee just wanted you all to know that her and Yogi have a NEW Baby and his name will be "BOGI"
He arrived Sunday from Indianna ... Nickee and Yogi are over the moon..and as I type they are playing chase and zoomies together..Nickee will be on as soon as the new wears off..right now they are all getting to know each other..I am so happy for them all..THANK YOU God so much for this little angle..he has been a blessing for both Nickee and Yogi..
I have to take the blame for this when I sent her a picture of Bogi she was head over heals in love with that sweet face..with in five mins..my phone rang and all the wheels were sent in motion and all will live happly ever after..what a beautiful story and here are a few pictures of this sweet baby and his big brother Yogi..


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## Five Furs

CONGRADS Nickee and Yogi I am so excited for both of you ..xoxo love ya


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## Furbabies mom

Congratulations Nickee! Now you have 2 to love and spoil! Sooo cute!


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## Orla

Congrats!!


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## Bamalama

Congrats!


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## mdbflorida

Congrats so will he like monkeys? or we he has his own favorite! Can't wait to hear the adventures of Bogi and Yogi. What great names and they are adorable.


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## Kathleen

Congrats! So happy for you Nickee!
I can't wait to hear all about Bogi and how much fun Yogi is having!
Welcone Bogi!:cheer:


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## luvsmalts

Great news! Can't wait to hear more.


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## maltese manica

Congrats Nickee and Yogi! Yogi must be having so much fun with Bogi! Cant wait to hear of the adventures those two are having


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## bellaratamaltese

Oh such great news! Was this little guy from a rescue? He looks like a doll - and very sweet! Congrats!!


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## eiksaa

Nickee, you finally found the one! He's such a cute puppy. Thanks for rescuing him. Can't wait to see what difference your love and care makes to him in a few months. Does he have any Maltese in him? Maybe yorkie-bichon? How old is he? 

I remember how sad you were in the thread where you were almost had by a BYB. Good for you to not fall prey to greeders and again, thanks for rescuing this little guy. 




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## maltese#1fan

Congratulations! Can't wait to hear all about your new baby.


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## Oakley Jackson

congrats!


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## pammy4501

eiksaa said:


> Nickee, you finally found the one! He's such a cute puppy. Thanks for rescuing him. Can't wait to see what difference your love and care makes to him in a few months. Does he have any Maltese in him? Maybe yorkie-bichon? How old is he?
> 
> I remember how sad you were in the thread where you were almost had by a BYB. Good for you to not fall prey to greeders and again, thanks for rescuing this little guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 Oh yes, I do remember how ardent Nickee was about getting a rescue! He's a cute pup, but it does look like he had a bit of a rough start. He will do well with Nickee's loving care!


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## babycake7

Bogi has hit the jackpot....don't know what his background is but he will be living the life because Yogi is one of the most spoiled of all the fluff babies! Big congrats to Nickee - I know she has waited for a long time and has had quite a journey to get to this point! So happy for sweet Nickee and Yogi...you are still THE MAN Yogi!!! Love you guys!


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## Grace'sMom

LOL I thought his name would be BooBoo 

Bogi is so cute  Congrats Nickee and Yogi!!!! What fun!


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## wkomorow

Congrads Nickee, Welcome little Bogi. Lucky wants you to "bee" good for your mommy.


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## pippersmom

Congratulations Nickee. You've been wanting another fluff to love for a long time now.


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## Summergirl73

Wonderful news!


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## Snuggle's Mom

Yogi and Bogi!! Now how cute is that??? Cannot wait to hear more about the "new addition" to the Nickee and Yogi household. Can just imagine all of the clothes they will have between the two of them. Many and very best wishes to the whole family!!!


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## lynda

Congratulations, can't wait to hear all about him and see more pictures please!


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## jane and addison

Congrats on the new baby. We are just finding out what it means to have two dogs. Good luck and best wishes.


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## Maisie and Me

Congratulations on your adorable little Bogi!!!!!:chili:


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## hempsteadjb

What a cutie, can't wait to see more pictures!!!


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## Barb and the boys

What great news!! Congratulations on your new Bogi!! Can't wait to hear about his homecoming!


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## nwyant1946

*I'm a Godmother again...to little Bogi...now I have two to spoil as well as Mia. I've already started a box, but it will take me awhile to fill it...LOL *

*Congrats Nickee...I enjoyed our conversation the other night as always...Love you girl...hug the boys for me.*


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## maggie's mommy

Congrats on your new addition Nickee! He is just adorable.


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## maddysmom

Congrats!!!:chili:arty::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:


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## eiksaa

Wow, I just learned the truth about this and I can very honestly say I am shocked by this situation. Unfortunately, poor little Bogi is a 'designer breed' that comes from a BYB that sells various breeds of dogs and various mixes. She lets go of puppies at 8 weeks. The more I learned, the more I could not believe it. 

I know you have been looking for a puppy for a long time. And when members here suggested you save up for a good, ethical show breeder puppy you got very offended and insisted you only wanted to rescue a pup, you did not care about the money. But considering how this breeder charges 1/4th of the amount good breeders too, I can't help but think when it came down to it, it was all about the puppy's price. 

I am truly disappointed. You don't owe me anything. Of course, you're free to do as you like. But with this one decision you've let down all of what SM stands for. 

We are all fighting for the right thing. Janene here is closing down puppy stores single handedly. We are all donating to the rescue raffle. Lynn has put in so much time and effort to make that happen. Walter is donating money to promote the raffle. AMAR members post here about their rescues, which members share on their Facebook. Sue set up a transfer chain to make sure a rescued puppy reaches the right place. Laura flew back all the way from Orlando with a puppy to help make a family happy with a rescue. Should I go on? And then you, one of our most prominent members here, go and fund a puppymill. 

Today I am inclined to believe all those who said we cannot change anyone's mind by trying to educate people on the forum. They were right all along. We were vulnerable to think we had a chance.

I hope someone here will correct me if I am wrong. Maybe I have the wrong information. There is nothing I want more right now than being wrong about this. Otherwise it would be a very sad day for SM to know we failed so miserably.

No negativity here, only reality. We can't even claim ignorance in this case.


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## Matilda's mommy

what a cute littleman:wub: congrats


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## hoaloha

eiksaa said:


> Wow, I just learned the truth about this and I can very honestly say I am shocked by this situation. Unfortunately, poor little Bogi is a 'designer breed' that comes from a BYB that sells various breeds of dogs and various mixes. She lets go of puppies at 8 weeks. The more I learned, the more I could not believe it.
> 
> I know you have been looking for a puppy for a long time. And when members here suggested you save up for a good, ethical show breeder puppy you got very offended and insisted you only wanted to rescue a pup, you did not care about the money. But considering how this breeder charges 1/4th of the amount good breeders too, I can't help but think when it came down to it, it was all about the puppy's price.
> 
> I am truly disappointed. You don't owe me anything. Of course, you're free to do as you like. But with this one decision you've let down all of what SM stands for.
> 
> We are all fighting for the right thing. Janene here is closing down puppy stores single handedly. We are all donating to the rescue raffle. Lynn has put in so much time and effort to make that happen. Walter is donating money to promote the raffle. AMAR members post here about their rescues, which members share on their Facebook. Sue set up a transfer chain to make sure a rescued puppy reaches the right place. Laura flew back all the way from Orlando with a puppy to help make a family happy with a rescue. Should I go on? And then you, one of our most prominent members here, go and fund a puppymill.
> 
> Today I am inclined to believe all those who said we cannot change anyone's mind by trying to educate people on the forum. They were right all along. We were vulnerable to think we had a chance.
> 
> I hope someone here will correct me if I am wrong. Maybe I have the wrong information. There is nothing I want more right now than being wrong about this. Otherwise it would be a very sad day for SM to know we failed so miserably.
> 
> No negativity here, only reality. We can't even claim ignorance in this case.


I am deeply saddened for SM when longtime members who KNOW better than to support BYB's and puppy mills go out and buy dogs from such. That website says "we are not ByB or puppymill." Yeah, big red flag already and all throughout that website. No reputable breeder purposely breeds for designer mutts.

Nickee, I wish you and your boys the best. I do hope that Aastha's post is incorrect about bogi's breeder. 

I honestly hope people do not follow Nickee's example on this. It's never okay to support a BYB.


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## Bailey&Me

Congratulations, Nickee!!! I know how long you've waited to adopt the right little one! Thank you for rescuing this little guy. He is so so so cute! He reminds me so much of Bailey when I first adopted him. His rescue believed he came from a puppy mill - one of those greeders breeding for "designer mixes" :w00t: :smilie_tischkante: Did your rescue think Bogi came from a similar background? Poor little guy! Well, good thing he found his way to your home...all the way from Indiana! Did you have any trouble figuring out the adoption from so far away? I know it can be tricky since so many rescues don't like to adopt out of state. Well...glad it all finally worked out for you! I know how dedicated you were to adopting a little one in need of a good home and supporting rescue! :aktion033: :chili: Congrats again and can't wait to see more pics of Yogi and his new baby brother!


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## wkomorow

Nickee,

You are a loving, gentle, generous soul. Bogi will have a great life thanks to you - he will never want for anything. The love and generosity you show Yogi is beyond words. The way you speak about Yogi shows tremendous love. You saved Bogi from a potentially disasterous life. I know the three of you find forever happiness.


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## Dominic

Unfortunately I had a brief chat with Nickee that ended with her blocking me on Facebook. 

With that, we as a community have failed big time and one of our SM friend just got a "designer puppy" from a puppy mill.


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## Bailey&Me

eiksaa said:


> Wow, I just learned the truth about this and I can very honestly say I am shocked by this situation. Unfortunately, poor little Bogi is a 'designer breed' that comes from a BYB that sells various breeds of dogs and various mixes. She lets go of puppies at 8 weeks. The more I learned, the more I could not believe it.
> 
> I know you have been looking for a puppy for a long time. And when members here suggested you save up for a good, ethical show breeder puppy you got very offended and insisted you only wanted to rescue a pup, you did not care about the money. But considering how this breeder charges 1/4th of the amount good breeders too, I can't help but think when it came down to it, it was all about the puppy's price.
> 
> I am truly disappointed. You don't owe me anything. Of course, you're free to do as you like. But with this one decision you've let down all of what SM stands for.
> 
> We are all fighting for the right thing. Janene here is closing down puppy stores single handedly. We are all donating to the rescue raffle. Lynn has put in so much time and effort to make that happen. Walter is donating money to promote the raffle. AMAR members post here about their rescues, which members share on their Facebook. Sue set up a transfer chain to make sure a rescued puppy reaches the right place. Laura flew back all the way from Orlando with a puppy to help make a family happy with a rescue. Should I go on? And then you, one of our most prominent members here, go and fund a puppymill.
> 
> Today I am inclined to believe all those who said we cannot change anyone's mind by trying to educate people on the forum. They were right all along. We were vulnerable to think we had a chance.
> 
> I hope someone here will correct me if I am wrong. Maybe I have the wrong information. There is nothing I want more right now than being wrong about this. Otherwise it would be a very sad day for SM to know we failed so miserably.
> 
> No negativity here, only reality. We can't even claim ignorance in this case.


Oh my. I'm just now seeing your post, Aastha and like you, I am also deeply saddened by this. I truly hope this is just some kind of misunderstanding. I know all of us here have joined in Nickee's excitement in searching for a new addition to her family for a while now and have tried to help guide her to reputable sources. With all that our members do to fight the fight against puppy mills and greeders, it would truly be heart breaking if one of our own has supported them. Very disappointing.


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## pammy4501

Well, once again I am completely saddened. It is as I suspected. I have stated before (and been completely attacked for saying my mind) it's a sad day on SM when members that have been here long enough to have learned better make terrible choices and everyone is congratulating them. I cannot in good consciousness be happy for this. I know Nickee will give this dog a good home, but it goes against everything this forum has stood for for years. We have been totally deceived into believing that she has been searching for a rescue dog. Wether you pick your dog up in a parking lot from a miller or pick one from the advertising section in the newspaper, it just wrong. I am at a total loss.


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## maggieh

Beatriz, we have not failed. Unfortunately there are people who simply don't want to listen and don't want to learn. In the years I've been here on SM, I have seen it repeatedly. It is sad, but there are people who simply don't want to learn. 

All we can do is try to educate and when we are successful with one or two, be thankful. Unfortunately, putting money in the hands of breeders who raise mixed breed dogs and call them "designer" only encourages these greeders to continue to make money off the lives of helpless puppies. 

Case in point is my Tessa - she is clearly a mix. She was found wandering the streets of Milwaukee in the middle of February with a badly broken leg. Someone dumped her or lost her and didn't care enough to try and find her. She was severely underweight and in pain - all because someone wanted to make money off of a designer dog and placed her in a home that wound up not wanting her.

To the SM members who think this type of irresponsible breeding is OK: please volunteer for a rescue or shelter for a few days. Hold an emaciated, sore covered, flea bitten "designer dog" that someone decided to dye green for St. Patrick's Day. Hold the dog found in an apartment whose owners moved and left her - she had given birth so recently that she was leaking milk on me - and absolutely no sign of the puppies. Transport the puppy mill mom whose breath is so bad from rotten teeth that we had to drive two hours with the car windows open. See exactly what kind of problems this indiscriminate breeding creates, and I think you will realize this is NOT OK!

For those of us who "get it," all we can do is continue to promote responsible breeding practices from ethical breeders and actively support our fabulous rescue organizations.

For those who choose to NOT "get it," I can only hope that someday you will see or hear something that finally resonates enough to help you learn.


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## Bailey&Me

Bailey&Me said:


> Congratulations, Nickee!!! I know how long you've waited to adopt the right little one! Thank you for rescuing this little guy. He is so so so cute! He reminds me so much of Bailey when I first adopted him. His rescue believed he came from a puppy mill - one of those greeders breeding for "designer mixes" :w00t: :smilie_tischkante: Did your rescue think Bogi came from a similar background? Poor little guy! Well, good thing he found his way to your home...all the way from Indiana! Did you have any trouble figuring out the adoption from so far away? I know it can be tricky since so many rescues don't like to adopt out of state. Well...glad it all finally worked out for you! I know how dedicated you were to adopting a little one in need of a good home and supporting rescue! :aktion033: :chili: Congrats again and can't wait to see more pics of Yogi and his new baby brother!


I wrote this before seeing Aastha's post. I should not have made assumptions so I apologize, but I truly thought based on Nickee's history with SM and her past comments about wanting to rescue a pup in need, that she adopted Bogi from a rescue organization. Never in my wildest imagination would it have occurred to me that a member who has been a big part of our forum for so long would have bought from a puppy mill...but I do apologize for my apparently incorrect assumption and I'm sorry if my post mislead anyone. 

Anyways, Bogi is a cutie and I wish him lots of happiness, good health and good times in his new home with Nickee and Yogi. Don't know what else to say.


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## maggieh

Bailey&Me said:


> I wrote this before seeing Aastha's post. I should not have made assumptions so I apologize, but I truly thought based on Nickee's history with SM and her past comments about wanting to rescue a pup in need, that she adopted Bogi from a rescue organization. Never in my wildest imagination would it have occurred to me that a member who has been a big part of our forum for so long would have bought from a puppy mill...but I do apologize for my apparently incorrect assumption and I'm sorry if my post mislead anyone.
> 
> Anyways, Bogi is a cutie and I wish him lots of happiness, good health and good times in his new home with Nickee and Yogi. Don't know what else to say.


Hugs to you, Nida!


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## pammy4501

maggieh said:


> Beatriz, we have not failed. Unfortunately there are people who simply don't want to listen and don't want to learn. In the years I've been here on SM, I have seen it repeatedly. It is sad, but there are people who simply don't want to learn.
> 
> All we can do is try to educate and when we are successful with one or two, be thankful. Unfortunately, putting money in the hands of breeders who raise mixed breed dogs and call them "designer" only encourages these greeders to continue to make money off the lives of helpless puppies.
> 
> Case in point is my Tessa - she is clearly a mix. She was found wandering the streets of Milwaukee in the middle of February with a badly broken leg. Someone dumped her or lost her and didn't care enough to try and find her. She was severely underweight and in pain - all because someone wanted to make money off of a designer dog and placed her in a home that wound up not wanting her.
> 
> To the SM members who think this type of irresponsible breeding is OK: please volunteer for a rescue or shelter for a few days. Hold an emaciated, sore covered, flea bitten "designer dog" that someone decided to dye green for St. Patrick's Day. Hold the dog found in an apartment whose owners moved and left her - she had given birth so recently that she was leaking milk on me - and absolutely no sign of the puppies. Transport the puppy mill mom whose breath is so bad from rotten teeth that we had to drive two hours with the car windows open. See exactly what kind of problems this indiscriminate breeding creates, and I think you will realize this is NOT OK!
> 
> For those of us who "get it," all we can do is continue to promote responsible breeding practices from ethical breeders and actively support our fabulous rescue organizations.
> 
> For those who choose to NOT "get it," I can only hope that someday you will see or hear something that finally resonates enough to help you learn.


Excellent post. And you are right. All we can do is try to educate and help the ones who are open to it.


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## babycake7

I am just getting caught up and am realizing that earlier today I posted congratulations with out knowing that Bogi was a "designer dog". I thought he was a rescue baby. I'm sad. I know Nickee will give Bogi a good life and lots of love but here in my county we have over 3,000 dogs (!!!) euthanized every year because of lack of spay/neuter and irresponsible ownership. The last thing needed here or anywhere else is people purposely breeding dogs for "designer mixes." I wish Bogi and Nickee well but my initial happiness for her is somewhat diminished.


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## Bamalama

One of the reasons I was hesitant about joining was how my "mutt" and I would be viewed. I was constantly searching the Maltese rescue sites and small dog rescue sites for a young Malt when my DH gifted me with my Pukky, whom I adore. DH now realizes that any future "children" will be rescues. There are too many out there!


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## StevieB

maggieh said:


> Beatriz, we have not failed. Unfortunately there are people who simply don't want to listen and don't want to learn. In the years I've been here on SM, I have seen it repeatedly. It is sad, but there are people who simply don't want to learn.
> 
> All we can do is try to educate and when we are successful with one or two, be thankful. Unfortunately, putting money in the hands of breeders who raise mixed breed dogs and call them "designer" only encourages these greeders to continue to make money off the lives of helpless puppies.
> 
> Case in point is my Tessa - she is clearly a mix. She was found wandering the streets of Milwaukee in the middle of February with a badly broken leg. Someone dumped her or lost her and didn't care enough to try and find her. She was severely underweight and in pain - all because someone wanted to make money off of a designer dog and placed her in a home that wound up not wanting her.
> 
> To the SM members who think this type of irresponsible breeding is OK: please volunteer for a rescue or shelter for a few days. Hold an emaciated, sore covered, flea bitten "designer dog" that someone decided to dye green for St. Patrick's Day. Hold the dog found in an apartment whose owners moved and left her - she had given birth so recently that she was leaking milk on me - and absolutely no sign of the puppies. Transport the puppy mill mom whose breath is so bad from rotten teeth that we had to drive two hours with the car windows open. See exactly what kind of problems this indiscriminate breeding creates, and I think you will realize this is NOT OK!
> 
> For those of us who "get it," all we can do is continue to promote responsible breeding practices from ethical breeders and actively support our fabulous rescue organizations.
> 
> For those who choose to NOT "get it," I can only hope that someday you will see or hear something that finally resonates enough to help you learn.


Thanks Maggie. This is great. I agree we have NOT failed. There are those who want to do the right thing and just need to learn what that is, and there are those who want what they want and will get it regardless of ethics. It's the people who want to do the right thing that we can still influence with our message. I have figured out over the last couple of years that the other group will always exist and as long as there are BYBs out there producing cheap puppies, there will be people there to buy them. It's just too tempting for those wanting a certain kind of dog but not wanting to pay the price, or people not wanting to wait, or people making an impulse purchase because the puppy is SO cute and the price is right.

I'm not sure if Nickee is planning on coming back to SM, but I do want her to know I wish her all the best. One thing I know for sure is that Bogi will be very loved and spoiled.


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## Bamalama

So true Celeta. I knew nothing about BYBs until I began reading the posts here while trying to learn more about Pukky. The sad part is that people will always try to profit, but for the dog's sake, we can only hope he/she finds a home of love instead of becoming another rescue statistic.


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## eiksaa

Bamalama said:


> One of the reasons I was hesitant about joining was how my "mutt" and I would be viewed. I was constantly searching the Maltese rescue sites and small dog rescue sites for a young Malt when my DH gifted me with my Pukky, whom I adore. DH now realizes that any future "children" will be rescues. There are too many out there!


I want to clarify, everyone is welcome here! Nothing against mixed breeds. This is about people who do mix different breeds to make profit off their dogs and then won't even treats their dogs right. 

Kudos to you for deciding to go rescue route in the future.


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## Bamalama

I have DH's assurance that when Pukky is a year old, I can start looking for a sister close to his age or a little younger. When we had him neutered, it was a little sad to think he would have no offspring, but responsibility won out. I couldn't justify adding to the pet population for my own selfishness.

I actually received an email today that a local shelter I was in contact with has an adorable male a year old.... But DH said another 8 months...


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## Maizy Moo's Mum

I have got to say I was kinda shocked/surprised not to see an excited post about yogis new brother with pictures and a story about his rescue especially as Nickee enjoys posting so much and maybe now we know why!!

I hope we might be wrong but sadly it seems that is not the case, I wish them well and hope that we can continue to help others make the right choices!!





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## hoaloha

Maizy Moo's Mum said:


> I have got to say I was kinda shocked/surprised not to see an excited post about yogis new brother with pictures and a story about his rescue especially as Nickee enjoys posting so much and maybe now we know why!!
> 
> I hope we might be wrong but sadly it seems that is not the case, I wish them well and hope that we can continue to help others make the right choices!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


:goodpost:


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## 4everjack

Yayyy so happy for the both of you. When the new settles in we want details!!!


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## eiksaa

maggieh said:


> Beatriz, we have not failed. Unfortunately there are people who simply don't want to listen and don't want to learn. In the years I've been here on SM, I have seen it repeatedly. It is sad, but there are people who simply don't want to learn.
> 
> All we can do is try to educate and when we are successful with one or two, be thankful. Unfortunately, putting money in the hands of breeders who raise mixed breed dogs and call them "designer" only encourages these greeders to continue to make money off the lives of helpless puppies.
> 
> Case in point is my Tessa - she is clearly a mix. She was found wandering the streets of Milwaukee in the middle of February with a badly broken leg. Someone dumped her or lost her and didn't care enough to try and find her. She was severely underweight and in pain - all because someone wanted to make money off of a designer dog and placed her in a home that wound up not wanting her.
> 
> To the SM members who think this type of irresponsible breeding is OK: please volunteer for a rescue or shelter for a few days. Hold an emaciated, sore covered, flea bitten "designer dog" that someone decided to dye green for St. Patrick's Day. Hold the dog found in an apartment whose owners moved and left her - she had given birth so recently that she was leaking milk on me - and absolutely no sign of the puppies. Transport the puppy mill mom whose breath is so bad from rotten teeth that we had to drive two hours with the car windows open. See exactly what kind of problems this indiscriminate breeding creates, and I think you will realize this is NOT OK!
> 
> For those of us who "get it," all we can do is continue to promote responsible breeding practices from ethical breeders and actively support our fabulous rescue organizations.
> 
> For those who choose to NOT "get it," I can only hope that someday you will see or hear something that finally resonates enough to help you learn.


Great post, Maggie! Thank you for posting this.


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## 4everjack

Wow!!im just catching up this post and normally I try not to get to involved in this kind of topic! But I don't feel that it's anyone's right to judge nickee on the choices she as a individual had made!! I'm really surprised at the lack of support here because she decided to go with her heart. It's obvious that people byb whatever we decide to call them will not stop mixing breeds of all kinds but for every 10 people that are judgemental about this issue we need another 10 nickees. Good luck nickee and yogi I'm happy you were able to step out your box and provide a loving home for bogi he is so lucky!!


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## 4everjack

And by no means is this breeding ok but it's what people are doing sad as it is the babies need loving homes as well!


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## Fluffdoll

I thought you had rescued him  No judgement here...


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## Dominic

4everjack said:


> And by no means is this breeding ok but it's what people are doing sad as it is the babies need loving homes as well!


It is because this kind of approach that lots of dogs are dump on streets, some are being rescued and many others have a miserable life as well because this kind of approach that BYB and puppy mills keep themselves in business.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

maggieh said:


> Beatriz, we have not failed. Unfortunately there are people who simply don't want to listen and don't want to learn. In the years I've been here on SM, I have seen it repeatedly. It is sad, but there are people who simply don't want to learn.
> 
> All we can do is try to educate and when we are successful with one or two, be thankful. Unfortunately, putting money in the hands of breeders who raise mixed breed dogs and call them "designer" only encourages these greeders to continue to make money off the lives of helpless puppies.
> 
> Case in point is my Tessa - she is clearly a mix. She was found wandering the streets of Milwaukee in the middle of February with a badly broken leg. Someone dumped her or lost her and didn't care enough to try and find her. She was severely underweight and in pain - all because someone wanted to make money off of a designer dog and placed her in a home that wound up not wanting her.
> 
> To the SM members who think this type of irresponsible breeding is OK: please volunteer for a rescue or shelter for a few days. Hold an emaciated, sore covered, flea bitten "designer dog" that someone decided to dye green for St. Patrick's Day. Hold the dog found in an apartment whose owners moved and left her - she had given birth so recently that she was leaking milk on me - and absolutely no sign of the puppies. Transport the puppy mill mom whose breath is so bad from rotten teeth that we had to drive two hours with the car windows open. See exactly what kind of problems this indiscriminate breeding creates, and I think you will realize this is NOT OK!
> 
> For those of us who "get it," all we can do is continue to promote responsible breeding practices from ethical breeders and actively support our fabulous rescue organizations.
> 
> For those who choose to NOT "get it," I can only hope that someday you will see or hear something that finally resonates enough to help you learn.





StevieB said:


> Thanks Maggie. This is great. I agree we have NOT failed. There are those who want to do the right thing and just need to learn what that is, and there are those who want what they want and will get it regardless of ethics. It's the people who want to do the right thing that we can still influence with our message. I have figured out over the last couple of years that the other group will always exist and as long as there are BYBs out there producing cheap puppies, there will be people there to buy them. It's just too tempting for those wanting a certain kind of dog but not wanting to pay the price, or people not wanting to wait, or people making an impulse purchase because the puppy is SO cute and the price is right.
> 
> I'm not sure if Nickee is planning on coming back to SM, but I do want her to know I wish her all the best. One thing I know for sure is that Bogi will be very loved and spoiled.


Maggie, so well said ... and, very realistic.

Celeta ... your post is great, too. 

One reason I haven't joined other Maltese forums when invited ... is because I heard, and have seen myself, that every once in a while ... members who should know better, don't speak up when BYB's are on the same forums. If those members who proclaim to be against BYB's and puppy mills don't speak up ... then doesn't that send a mixed message to some members ... and, also enable BYB's to do more dirty business? I wish we could start another thread to discuss questions like this further. 

We need to keep up the fight against BYB and puppymills. I have learned so much about BYB's and puppy mills since being a member on SM. And, it makes me sick with what so many so called breeders (not our breeders who post on SM) are getting away with. Thank God that we have ethical and hard working breeders like Stacy, Carina, and Mary ... who post and help educate us on Spoiled Maltese.


----------



## Fluffdoll

I also realized earlier today she deleted me off facebook which I really don't know why... :mellow:


----------



## 4everjack

Dominic said:


> It is because this kind of approach that lots of dogs are dump on streets, some are being rescued and many others have a miserable life as well because this kind of approach that BYB and puppy mills keep themselves in business.


Call it how you want!!!and it's this kind of behavior that a well know member of this forum is not active on here now. I understand your point but its done and will continue to be done unfortunately but at the end of the day do we make our members feel the way nickee is feeling right now!!


----------



## Dominic

4everjack said:


> Call it how you want!!!and it's this kind of behavior that a well know member of this forum is not active on here now. I understand your point but its done and will continue to be done unfortunately but at the end of the day do we make our members feel the way nickee is feeling right now!!


First off, Nickee is feeling the way she might be feeling due to her own bad decisions. Blocking people away? Getting a MORKIE from a PUPPY MILL and looking for sympathy from a MALTESE forum that supports rescue and reputable breeder?

I do say sorry but no sorry, don't even care about her feelings... I do care about the dogs, they do not have a voice but we do. 

And to clarify, I call it how it is not how I want.


----------



## pammy4501

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> Maggie, so well said ... and, very realistic.
> 
> Celeta ... your post is great, too.
> 
> One reason I haven't joined other Maltese forums when invited ... is because I heard, and have seen myself, that every once in a while ... members who should know better, don't speak up when BYB's are on the same forums. If those members who proclaim to be against BYB's and puppy mills don't speak up ... then doesn't that send a mixed message to some members ... and, also enable BYB's to do more dirty business? I wish we could start another thread to discuss questions like this further.
> 
> We need to keep up the fight against BYB and puppymills. I have learned so much about BYB's and puppy mills since being a member on SM. And, it makes me sick with what so many so called breeders (not our breeders who post on SM) are getting away with. Thank God that we have ethical and hard working breeders like Stacy, Carina, and Mary ... who post and help educate us on Spoiled Maltese.


Oh MARIE, you just put it so well! I dropped off another forum because it was clearly just a forum for BYB's trying to sell dogs. I have always loved SM and SM people because this forum was accepting of everyone. Even those of us that made mistakes but were ready to learn. I am just so sad to see people applauding this purchase. And I do think we need another thread to discuss this so it won't be perceived as all being directed at Nickee. *To Nickee* (and I see you are online), you are the only one who knows why you chose this path. We know you are a good dog mom. But you must understand why some here have concerns. Perhaps you would like to weigh in?


Fluffdoll said:


> I also realized earlier today she deleted me off facebook which I really don't know why... :mellow:


I think you can probably figure it out. You are not alone.


----------



## 4everjack

Dominic said:


> First off, Nickee is feeling the way she might be feeling due to her own bad decisions. Blocking people away? Getting a MORKIE from a PUPPY MILL and looking for sympathy from a MALTESE forum that supports rescue and reputable breeder?
> 
> I do say sorry but no sorry, don't even care about her feelings... I do care about the dogs, they do not have a voice but we do.
> 
> And to clarify, I call it how it is not how I want.




Whatever you want to say I choose not to go back and forth with you over your feelings!! So be it!!! 

And just a little more clarification all the hard body emotions you are displaying again so be it!! I hope you feel better now!!


----------



## Fluffdoll

pammy4501 said:


> I think you can probably figure it out. You are not alone.


But why though? I honestly never did anything bad to her. :blink: Or at least not intentionally.

Oh, well! It's her facebook, and her money that she can spend on whatever she wants to... But honestly, if she's trying to hide where she got Bogi from it's because she knows what she did is wrong. 

But my question is why? There are plenty of cute puppies in rescues if she didn't want a purebred Malt. Why support puppymills? Why, when she has so much information? 

I'm very confused. I mean, if you do it out of ignorance, okay, but if you know the truth and you do it anyways then that's just weird...


----------



## pammy4501

Fluffdoll said:


> But why though? I honestly never did anything bad to her. :blink: Or at least not intentionally.
> 
> Oh, well! It's her facebook, and her money that she can spend on whatever she wants to... But honestly, if she's trying to hide where she got Bogi from it's because she knows what she did is wrong.
> 
> But my question is why? There are plenty of cute puppies in rescues if she didn't want a purebred Malt. Why support puppymills? Why, when she has so much information?
> 
> I'm very confused. I mean, if you do it out of ignorance, okay, but if you know the truth and you do it anyways then that's just weird...


_Exactly! _ You questioned motives. And iwhy so many here have concerns here tonight. And for the record, I have not said anything in a mean or demeaning way.


----------



## zooeysmom

Dominic said:


> First off, Nickee is feeling the way she might be feeling due to her own bad decisions. Blocking people away? Getting a MORKIE from a PUPPY MILL and looking for sympathy from a MALTESE forum that supports rescue and reputable breeder?
> 
> I do say sorry but no sorry, don't even care about her feelings... I do care about the dogs, they do not have a voice but we do.
> 
> And to clarify, I call it how it is not how I want.


:goodpost: Thank you for your posts, Beatriz and Maggie especially. And thank you to all the others who continue to educate people about adoption and buying from reputable breeders, in spite of the thoughtless and heartless people who buy from puppy mills. Never give up hope that you aren't making a difference, because you are!


----------



## 4everjack

It may be more to the story then we know. When she is ready she probably will discuss and who knows maybe she won't. Maybe we are missing a whole side to her story. Not that she owes it to anyone.


----------



## zooeysmom

I'm wondering why Nickee has such a following here. There are a few people who are always defending her. I haven't seen that with ANY other members in the three years I've been on the board. Weird. Alters?


----------



## Dominic

4everjack said:


> It may be more to the story then we know. When she is ready she probably will discuss and who knows maybe she won't. Maybe we are missing a whole side to her story. Not that she owes it to anyone.


Let me break this down to you. Nickee facebook chat me and wrote everything without me asking her to do so. *There is no sad story to back this off. *I can't quote her because it is against this forum rules otherwise I would and that wouldn't be fun. So get it right, there is NO excuses for one to get a puppy mill dog once they are educate about it and she sure was. 
About those hard body emotions you mention on your previous post I don't know what you are talking about but I sure had some fun with it, so thank you.


----------



## Fluffdoll

4everjack said:


> It may be more to the story then we know. When she is ready she probably will discuss and who knows maybe she won't. Maybe we are missing a whole side to her story. Not that she owes it to anyone.


If there's nothing wrong then why go around blocking people like she's got something to hide? I wish things really were how you say they are, but she already admitted she didn't rescue him and that he's a designer dog breed...


----------



## Fluffdoll

zooeysmom said:


> I'm wondering why Nickee has such a following here. There are a few people who are always defending her. I haven't seen that with ANY other members in the three years I've been on the board. Weird. Alters?


LOL! I noticed that too!


----------



## Dominic

zooeysmom said:


> I'm wondering why Nickee has such a following here. There are a few people who are always defending her. I haven't seen that with ANY other members in the three years I've been on the board. Weird. Alters?


As long as you have a sad story and you are nice and you have a poor me or whatsoever people will let you get away with everything.


----------



## 4everjack

Well me personally I am not trying to defend nickee all I know is what I see on sm. we are not even friends on any other social media. I try to look at things from a different perspective give a person the benefit of the doubt and knowing in my heart of hearts that its a reason way deeper then any of us know why she chose to add bogi into her life.


----------



## Fluffdoll

4everjack said:


> Well me personally I am not trying to defend nickee all I know is what I see on sm. we are not even friends on any other social media. I try to look at things from a different perspective give a person the benefit of the doubt and knowing in my heart of hearts that its a reason way deeper then any of us know why she chose to add bogi into her life.


I understand what you mean. At first I was like you, I didn't want to go all judgmental on Nickee. But the more I read the more I realized there was no question to what she did anymore. And honestly, like Beatriz said, she has NO excuse. Not even the whole "I want a puppy to be Yogi's brother" thing. If she just wanted a puppy, there's PLENTY of puppies in shelters that need loving mothers like her to nurse them to life. My guess is she was really desperate and she let the greeder tempt her with this cute puppy. She fell for the trap... but she should've known better.


----------



## pammy4501

4everjack said:


> Well me personally I am not trying to defend nickee all I know is what I see on sm. we are not even friends on any other social media. I try to look at things from a different perspective give a person the benefit of the doubt and knowing in my heart of hearts that its a reason way deeper then any of us know why she chose to add bogi into her life.


And as I stated, Nickee and Nickee alone knows her motivation for getting this particular dog. She is certainly welcome to come here and share if she chooses. But, for SM as a forum, we have always supported getting a dog from two arenas...rescue or reputable show breeders. BYB and puppy mills are not supported here, and never have been. I hope that never changes.


----------



## 4everjack

Yea I here you!! I guess I'm one of those people who try to find the good some way somehow. Could be the nurse in me lol. However I wish her the best and can only pray for these puppy mills that continuously are being supported by our community. 



Fluffdoll said:


> If there's nothing wrong then why go around blocking people like she's got something to hide? I wish things really were how you say they are, but she already admitted she didn't rescue him and that he's a designer dog breed...


----------



## Snowbody

I'm shocked and sorry to read this. The only side we're on is the side of the dogs. Every dollar put into a puppy millers hand is a dollar that keeps them causing dogs to suffer in intolerable conditions. Many members here have mixed breed or poorly bred Maltese that they got from pet shops which sell mill dogs or BYBs, but they got them BEFORE they came here and knew better. There are endless stickies and threads about ethical vs unethical breeders. I didn't know any of this before i came to SM and was so thankful to become educated. It then took me 9 months to get a Maltese! I wanted to do things right no matter how long it took and tried some rescues and show breeders. For someone to know all this and then STILL get a dog through unscrupulous means is what upsets me. I know the puppy will be loved but there had to be a better decision, even if it took months and months. Some things are worth the wait. I'm just disappointed that someone who knows better would do this...no matter whom it is.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## pammy4501

4everjack said:


> Yea I here you!! I guess I'm one of those people who try to find the good some way somehow. Could be the nurse in me lol. However I wish her the best and can only pray for these *puppy mills that continuously are being supported by our community*.


With all due respect. The SM community has NEVER supported puppy mills or back yard breeding.


----------



## 4everjack

Fluffdoll said:


> I understand what you mean. At first I was like you, I didn't want to go all judgmental on Nickee. But the more I read the more I realized there was no question to what she did anymore. And honestly, like Beatriz said, she has NO excuse. Not even the whole "I want a puppy to be Yogi's brother" thing. If she just wanted a puppy, there's PLENTY of puppies in shelters that need loving mothers like her to nurse them to life. My guess is she was really desperate and she let the greeder tempt her with this cute puppy. She fell for the trap... but she should've known better.


If that's the case then you are right!! I just can't imagine going so gaga over one puppy and allowing a breeder talk me into something that's against my morals that's why I was thinking it was more to the story!! When like you stated it's a ton of cute pups to be rescued


----------



## Madeleinesmommy

zooeysmom said:


> I'm wondering why Nickee has such a following here. There are a few people who are always defending her. I haven't seen that with ANY other members in the three years I've been on the board. Weird. Alters?


I cannot speak for anyone else but me but Nickee has been very helpful with information and what not. She has gone above and beyond for me in the past with sending me information and I personally enjoy her posts and her pictures of Yogi.

I'm not defending her actions because I really have no idea what's going on as far as where her new puppy came from.I do not support puppymills or bybs because of informative websites such as this one and I've done a big research project for one of my classes at school.


----------



## 4everjack

pammy4501 said:


> And as I stated, Nickee and Nickee alone knows her motivation for getting this particular dog. She is certainly welcome to come here and share if she chooses. But, for SM as a forum, we have always supported getting a dog from two arenas...rescue or reputable show breeders. BYB and puppy mills are not supported here, and never have been. I hope that never changes.


Yes agree and in some cases quite a few of us came here with lack of knowledge ! I can say I did and I can say I learned so much about reputable breeders and byb.


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## 4everjack

Ok I get the picture!! I hear what you are saying!!! I'm exiting this post enjoy your night everyone.


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## 4everjack

pammy4501 said:


> And as I stated, Nickee and Nickee alone knows her motivation for getting this particular dog. She is certainly welcome to come here and share if she chooses. But, for SM as a forum, we have always supported getting a dog from two arenas...rescue or reputable show breeders. BYB and puppy mills are not supported here, and never have been. I hope that never changes.


Yes agree and in some cases quite a few of us came here with lack of knowledge ! I can say I did and I can say I learned so much about reputable breeders and byb.


----------



## Grace'sMom

Really wish everyone would just stop.

The only person we have the right to judge is ourselves....

This thread is making me sick....and not for reasons people might think.

I love SM... but I cannot be here if this is what happens. It makes my heart sick....

Being passionate is all well and good.... but there is a fine line between being passionate and attacking.

This is like a baby being born under really bad and unwanted circumstances... even if the mother knew better, had the information, etc...... And instead of rejoicing for a life... a light... a soul that is supposed to be in this world for however long or short... All their friends and family are angry and judgmental. Does it make the mother right? No... Do you want to remind them over and over they knew better? Probably.... but what's done is done.... that life is here... that soul is here.... 

I believe things happen for reasons. I believe those in our lives are there for a reason.... and the lessons that need learned will be learned....some are very hard.... very, very hard... with every choice comes a lesson be it positive or negative .... I'm not condoning nor condemning... it is not up to me to judge someone else.... I have my own journey to walk.


----------



## Dominic

Grace'sMom said:


> Really wish everyone would just stop.
> 
> The only person we have the right to judge is ourselves....
> 
> This thread is making me sick....and not for reasons people might think.
> 
> I love SM... but I cannot be here if this is what happens. It makes my heart sick....
> 
> Being passionate is all well and good.... but there is a fine line between being passionate and attacking.
> 
> This is like a baby being born under really bad and unwanted circumstances... even if the mother knew better, had the information, etc...... And instead of rejoicing for a life... a light... a soul that is supposed to be in this world for however long or short... All their friends and family are angry and judgmental. Does it make the mother right? No... Do you want to remind them over and over they knew better? Probably.... but what's done is done.... that life is here... that soul is here....
> 
> I believe things happen for reasons. I believe those in our lives are there for a reason.... and the lessons that need learned will be learned....some are very hard.... very, very hard... with every choice comes a lesson be it positive or negative .... I'm not condoning nor condemning... it is not up to me to judge someone else.... I have my own journey to walk.


Tori,
With all respect, we are talking about a well informed member of SM that just bought a BYB morkie dog. If there is so many reasons why are we all fighting against BYB and puppy mills if, at the end, a sad story will cover bad decisions?


----------



## 4everjack

My point exactly!! That's all I was trying to say. I thought this was a tight nit family all kidding aside if you trip I pick you up not continue to smack you down.i just thought it was more love here that's all.

Thanks for your response 





Grace'sMom said:


> Really wish everyone would just stop.
> 
> The only person we have the right to judge is ourselves....
> 
> This thread is making me sick....and not for reasons people might think.
> 
> I love SM... but I cannot be here if this is what happens. It makes my heart sick....
> 
> Being passionate is all well and good.... but there is a fine line between being passionate and attacking.
> 
> This is like a baby being born under really bad and unwanted circumstances... even if the mother knew better, had the information, etc...... And instead of rejoicing for a life... a light... a soul that is supposed to be in this world for however long or short... All their friends and family are angry and judgmental. Does it make the mother right? No... Do you want to remind them over and over they knew better? Probably.... but what's done is done.... that life is here... that soul is here....
> 
> I believe things happen for reasons. I believe those in our lives are there for a reason.... and the lessons that need learned will be learned....some are very hard.... very, very hard... with every choice comes a lesson be it positive or negative .... I'm not condoning nor condemning... it is not up to me to judge someone else.... I have my own journey to walk.


----------



## Fluffdoll

Grace'sMom said:


> Really wish everyone would just stop.
> 
> The only person we have the right to judge is ourselves....
> 
> This thread is making me sick....and not for reasons people might think.
> 
> I love SM... but I cannot be here if this is what happens. It makes my heart sick....
> 
> Being passionate is all well and good.... but there is a fine line between being passionate and attacking.
> 
> This is like a baby being born under really bad and unwanted circumstances... even if the mother knew better, had the information, etc...... And instead of rejoicing for a life... a light... a soul that is supposed to be in this world for however long or short... All their friends and family are angry and judgmental. Does it make the mother right? No... Do you want to remind them over and over they knew better? Probably.... but what's done is done.... that life is here... that soul is here....
> 
> I believe things happen for reasons. I believe those in our lives are there for a reason.... and the lessons that need learned will be learned....some are very hard.... very, very hard... with every choice comes a lesson be it positive or negative .... I'm not condoning nor condemning... it is not up to me to judge someone else.... I have my own journey to walk.


Tori, I understand where you're coming from. Some of us here have been hard on Nickee. But the thing is, that if nobody says anything, others will think it's not a big deal and will probably end up following this example. People need to speak out. I don't think I attacked Nickee in any way by stating what she had done and that I simply didn't understand why. I had a right to wonder, and to share my opinion, just like you're sharing yours now and have done in the past. After all, this forum is so we can share our opinion and have discussions. 

But you're right, we should just leave it at this. Our points were already said and those who come across this will read and learn, no need to keep repeating it.


----------



## 4everjack

I did say I was going to bed lol. All minds ands hearts are clear goodnight sm


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## Fluffdoll

The information on this site is given, in the end it's up to each person to decide whether they should follow it or not. No one can force others, and we can't decide for others. All we can do is try to pass on the info we already know and hopefully others will learn out of it and apply it to their lives. If not, what can we do? Sadly, it's out of our control.


----------



## Katkoota

Hello

I just wanted to remind everyone about the below quote 


> Treatment of SM’s Members:
> You are to treat all members with respect. Follow the old saying, “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” It is fine to disagree with another member, but do so respectfully. You may respectfully attack a member’s point of view but do not attack the member personally.


More of SM rules can be found here: Maltese Dogs Forum : Spoiled Maltese Forums - Announcements in Forum : News and Announcements

Thanks 

ETA - I posted the above in response to one particular post that was reported by members three times at least for name calling a member (not an opinion , view...etc). That post was deleted and the above rule was posted as a reminder.


----------



## Grace'sMom

I'm okay with people informing others about these issues.... 

Seriously... that is fine... and good, and I applaud those who have the information and words to do it.

But this thread has posts that are not about that issue, they are attacking and judging one person when that person isn't even here.....

Informing and passionately standing up for a cause is great....

Going after one person.... just makes you all look like bullies.

I love everyone here.... but I pray I never make a mistake on this forum.


----------



## 4everjack

Grace'sMom said:


> I'm okay with people informing others about these issues....
> 
> Seriously... that is fine... and good, and I applaud those who have the information and words to do it.
> 
> But this thread has posts that are not about that issue, they are attacking and judging one person when that person isn't even here.....
> 
> Informing and passionately standing up for a cause is great....
> 
> Going after one person.... just makes you all look like bullies.
> 
> I love everyone here.... but I pray I never make a mistake on this forum.



I feel the same way a new light was shed tonight. And bullies is the perfect word. But if you do make a mistake go grab your self and beat your self with it. Just made me wonder where was the love!'


----------



## MalteseJane

Katkoota said:


> Hello
> 
> I just wanted to remind everyone about the below quote
> 
> More of SM rules can be found here: Maltese Dogs Forum : Spoiled Maltese Forums - Announcements in Forum : News and Announcements
> 
> Thanks


:thumbsup:


----------



## MalteseJane

Grace'sMom said:


> I'm okay with people informing others about these issues....
> 
> Seriously... that is fine... and good, and I applaud those who have the information and words to do it.
> 
> But this thread has posts that are not about that issue, they are attacking and judging one person when that person isn't even here.....
> 
> Informing and passionately standing up for a cause is great....
> 
> Going after one person.... just makes you all look like bullies.
> 
> I love everyone here.... but I pray I never make a mistake on this forum.


:thumbsup:


----------



## Katkoota

The above rule was put here as a reminder because of one particular post that was reported by members three times at least for name calling another member. 

Name calling members is not allowed in this forum. Therefore, that particular post was deleted!


----------



## pammy4501

Thank you Kat. I think some here are mistaking speaking a strongly held opinion as mean. It's not mean to state truth. But name calling is never OK.


----------



## Snowball Pie's Mommi

Katkoota said:


> The above rule was put here as a reminder because of one particular post that was reported by members three times at least for name calling another member.
> 
> Name calling members is not allowed in this forum. Therefore, that particular post was deleted!



Thank you, Kat, for being here tonight. Well, actually it's more like the middle of the night here on the east coast! I cannot believe how many members are still up this late ... or, this early in the morning!

Anyway, I wish at times like this, that we had more of our super moderators, like you, here to help keep discussions on track in regard to the SM rules.

Thank you, again, dear Kat. :tender:


----------



## Summergirl73

Oh I just woke up with a heavy heart about all the things I could have, should have and would have done with a Golden rescue I've been working on. Now I see this. Yet again I'm heartbroken. Nickee, you know that I bought Bella from a Puppy Mill. You've also seen my endless posts about how horrible that choice was, the tears and why I work exhaustedly to save animals and educate others. I'm not alone in my story - the posts are one after the other on this forum. We advocate to save lives here. It is what we do. You knew this. You knew this.... You also know me well enough to know that if you'd seen a rescue dog - any breed or mix of breeds that you wanted, that I am constantly volunteering to transport them. So a pup in your budget could have been brought to your door, so $ is not the issue here. The effort comes not from ego or pats on the back ~ it comes from my begging desire to stop back yard breeding, kill shelters and puppy mills. So I guess I just don't get it. It's not about the cute clothes or the presents, it's about saving dogs and educating people. I can only pray that you will some day truly understand this and join the tireless efforts - not for me, not for SM but for the dogs who are dying out there just to make $ for people. It's sickening.


----------



## Orla

Wow  It's never okay to support a BYB or puppy mill, but especially when you know all the facts. I don't even want to think about that puppies poor parents  How anyone can know better and still support such evil is beyond me. 
I also hate how members here just want to mute all the bad stuff(pretend getting puppies from bad places is okay) and then call people bullies for standing up for the innocent tortured dogs. Not okay. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## elly

Orla said:


> Wow  It's never okay to support a BYB or puppy mill, but especially when you know all the facts. I don't even want to think about that puppies poor parents  How anyone can know better and still support such evil is beyond me.
> I also hate how members here just want to mute all the bad stuff(pretend getting puppies from bad places is okay) and then call people bullies for standing up for the innocent tortured dogs. Not okay.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Agree good post!


----------



## Snuggle's Mom

Well, I am just curious to know whether or not Nickee will ever come back to SM or not??? I did read all of the posts (all 10 pages) and feel bad that so many have been so very judgmental of Nickee and her decision. But in all honesty, who really has the right to judge what someone else does in life??? Personally speaking, I think that this has gone way over the top and we need to stop this for Nickee's sake. No, I am not for Mills nor BYB's but what is done is done.


----------



## sherry

maggieh said:


> Beatriz, we have not failed. Unfortunately there are people who simply don't want to listen and don't want to learn. In the years I've been here on SM, I have seen it repeatedly. It is sad, but there are people who simply don't want to learn.
> 
> All we can do is try to educate and when we are successful with one or two, be thankful. Unfortunately, putting money in the hands of breeders who raise mixed breed dogs and call them "designer" only encourages these greeders to continue to make money off the lives of helpless puppies.
> 
> Case in point is my Tessa - she is clearly a mix. She was found wandering the streets of Milwaukee in the middle of February with a badly broken leg. Someone dumped her or lost her and didn't care enough to try and find her. She was severely underweight and in pain - all because someone wanted to make money off of a designer dog and placed her in a home that wound up not wanting her.
> 
> To the SM members who think this type of irresponsible breeding is OK: please volunteer for a rescue or shelter for a few days. Hold an emaciated, sore covered, flea bitten "designer dog" that someone decided to dye green for St. Patrick's Day. Hold the dog found in an apartment whose owners moved and left her - she had given birth so recently that she was leaking milk on me - and absolutely no sign of the puppies. Transport the puppy mill mom whose breath is so bad from rotten teeth that we had to drive two hours with the car windows open. See exactly what kind of problems this indiscriminate breeding creates, and I think you will realize this is NOT OK!
> 
> For those of us who "get it," all we can do is continue to promote responsible breeding practices from ethical breeders and actively support our fabulous rescue organizations.
> 
> For those who choose to NOT "get it," I can only hope that someday you will see or hear something that finally resonates enough to help you learn.


:thumbsup: Good post! In the past I owned 2 puppies who turned out to be puppymill. I was deceived, and had many medical bills to pay for it. I loved them dearly, even my boy who just was not "right in the head!" But when I lost the last one I found this forum and have been so grateful! It's so sad that Nickee can be on this forum for so long and support these kind of people!


----------



## Oakley Jackson

I want to had that I do get it now. I found SM after I got Oakley . He is from a BYB. After I retired I starting looking for a puppy to keep me busy and for company, and he sure does that. I don't get on here to much any more cause I feel kind of guilty now that I understand.


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## nwyant1946

4everjack said:


> Well me personally I am not trying to defend nickee all I know is what I see on sm. we are not even friends on any other social media. I try to look at things from a different perspective give a person the benefit of the doubt and knowing in my heart of hearts that its a reason way deeper then any of us know why she chose to add bogi into her life.


*You are way more correct than you will ever know. Nickee is a good friend of mine....Bogi and Yogi are her life...I've never seen such nasty comments on here before, and I'm seriously rethinking being on this forum anymore. Nickee doesn't deserve this. That dog will have the best home ever and doesn't that count at all? Morkie, Yorky, Maltese, what is the difference?? I have three people in my area who have Morkies....and deliberately got them...that doesn't give me the right to read them the riot act when I see them or make them feel like garbage because they have Morkies. Their dogs are loved beyond belief. Oh well, everyone has their opinion. I'm just happy for Nickee...and she is over the moon and that's important to me. I seriously hope I never screw up on this forum. You people can be very judgmental over and above the subject at hand...*


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## elly

Snuggle's Mom said:


> Well, I am just curious to know whether or not Nickee will ever come back to SM or not??? I did read all of the posts (all 10 pages) and feel bad that so many have been so very judgmental of Nickee and her decision. But in all honesty, who really has the right to judge what someone else does in life??? Personally speaking, I think that this has gone way over the top and we need to stop this for Nickee's sake. No, I am not for Mills nor BYB's but what is done is done.


I believe there is much more to this story. Spoiled Maltese does not support BYB, puppy mills and especially buying designer puppies (morkie) :angry:


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## Orla

nwyant1946 said:


> *You are way more correct than you will ever know. Nickee is a good friend of mine....Bogi and Yogi are her life...I've never seen such nasty comments on here before, and I'm seriously rethinking being on this forum anymore. Nickee doesn't deserve this. That dog will have the best home ever and doesn't that count at all? Morkie, Yorky, Maltese, what is the difference?? I have three people in my area who have Morkies....and deliberately got them...that doesn't give me the right to read them the riot act when I see them or make them feel like garbage because they have Morkies. Their dogs are loved beyond belief. Oh well, everyone has their opinion. I'm just happy for Nickee...and she is over the moon and that's important to me. I seriously hope I never screw up on this forum. You people can be very judgmental over and above the subject at hand...*


So we should just sit back and congratulate someone who knew better for supporting a vile business that profits on the torture of animals?

If my best friend/sister/anyone I knew well had done the same - I would be saying the exact same thing.


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## Kathleen

Oakley Jackson said:


> I want to had that I do get it now. I found SM after I got Oakley . He is from a BYB. After I retired I starting looking for a puppy to keep me busy and for company, and he sure does that. I don't get on here to much any more cause I feel kind of guilty now that I understand.


Oh no - please dont stay away from SM! 
You should not feel guilty. You didnt know. I think all of us were the same way once. My first two dogs were from puppymills - one from a pet store and one through a kennel. Back then, I had no idea what a puupymill was. I am lucky that I found SM while looking for Max and Daisy, otherwise I probably would have gotten a puppy from a BYB because I didnt know the warning signs to look for.
Please visit more! We love to see pictures of Oakley!


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## elly

Orla said:


> So we should just sit back and congratulate someone who knew better for supporting a vile business that profits on the torture of animals?
> 
> If my best friend/sister/anyone I knew well had done the same - I would be saying the exact same thing.


Exactly:thumbsup: spoiled Maltese is all about getting the word out about responsible breeding and buying puppies. We do not support breeding for greed period! I for one hate that mutts have fancy new names like doodles, morkies ect. They are mixes period! Maybe we need the graphic images on spoiled Maltese so people can really see the pain and suffering the dogs go through so people can buy a designer puppy or that cute puppy in the window. I will never be happy for someone that had all the facts.


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## preisa

I thought the purpose of this forum was to inform...teach...and guide people....not to judge...point fingers...call out specific names of members and make them feel like the scum of the earth. It appears that some are like vultures just ready to pounce on members when they do something you feel is not appropriate. I realize how passionate you feel about this cause....but there are ways to approach a situation like this than the way Nickee was called out.....seriously....you do more harm than good. There are good..kind and loving people on this forum and I applaud you for your hard work....but I want no part of a group like this that can hurt and degrade somebody as kind and compassionate as Nickee.. Stand up for your beliefs...but think twice before you speak out in judgement of others. I wish you all the best in this forum.


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## Fluffdoll

elly said:


> Exactly:thumbsup: spoiled Maltese is all about getting the word out about responsible breeding and buying puppies. We do not support breeding for greed period! I for one hate that mutts have fancy new names like doodles, morkies ect. They are mixes period! Maybe we need the graphic images on spoiled Maltese so people can really see the pain and suffering the dogs go through so people can buy a designer puppy or that cute puppy in the window. I will never be happy for someone that had all the facts.


Amen!! 


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## Fluffdoll

preisa said:


> I thought the purpose of this forum was to inform...teach...and guide people....not to judge...point fingers...call out specific names of members and make them feel like the scum of the earth. It appears that some are like vultures just ready to pounce on members when they do something you feel is not appropriate. I realize how passionate you feel about this cause....but there are ways to approach a situation like this than the way Nickee was called out.....seriously....you do more harm than good. There are good..kind and loving people on this forum and I applaud you for your hard work....but I want no part of a group like this that can hurt and degrade somebody as kind and compassionate as Nickee.. Stand up for your beliefs...but think twice before you speak out in judgement of others. I wish you all the best in this forum.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Okay, but since she is so kind and compassionate, why doesn't she feel compassion for all those other thousand dogs being abused and neglected? I don't think anyone with a kind heart can support such a cause just for their own selfish motives. By giving this one puppy a loving home, she's contributing to THOUSANDS of dogs being tortured. 


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## Orla

preisa said:


> I thought the purpose of this forum was to inform...teach...and guide people....not to judge...point fingers...call out specific names of members and make them feel like the scum of the earth. It appears that some are like vultures just ready to pounce on members when they do something you feel is not appropriate. I realize how passionate you feel about this cause....but there are ways to approach a situation like this than the way Nickee was called out.....seriously....you do more harm than good. There are good..kind and loving people on this forum and I applaud you for your hard work....but I want no part of a group like this that can hurt and degrade somebody as kind and compassionate as Nickee.. Stand up for your beliefs...but think twice before you speak out in judgement of others. I wish you all the best in this forum.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Well Nickee knew the facts and still decided to get a puppy from a mill. I will always stand up for the dogs of mills, and I really don't see how anyone can be okay with contributing to their suffering  


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## IzzysBellasMom

Grace'sMom said:


> Really wish everyone would just stop.
> 
> The only person we have the right to judge is ourselves....
> 
> This thread is making me sick....and not for reasons people might think.
> 
> I love SM... but I cannot be here if this is what happens. It makes my heart sick....
> 
> Being passionate is all well and good.... but there is a fine line between being passionate and attacking.
> 
> This is like a baby being born under really bad and unwanted circumstances... even if the mother knew better, had the information, etc...... And instead of rejoicing for a life... a light... a soul that is supposed to be in this world for however long or short... All their friends and family are angry and judgmental. Does it make the mother right? No... Do you want to remind them over and over they knew better? Probably.... but what's done is done.... that life is here... that soul is here....
> 
> I believe things happen for reasons. I believe those in our lives are there for a reason.... and the lessons that need learned will be learned....some are very hard.... very, very hard... with every choice comes a lesson be it positive or negative .... I'm not condoning nor condemning... it is not up to me to judge someone else.... I have my own journey to walk.


 
:goodpost:

I just want to remind everyone that Nickee did apply online TWICE to try to get a rescue. She was never contacted by Mary or anyone from the rescue, and I don't remember anyone here who knows Mary stepping up to help her get the right puppy from rescue. I know because she has stated before, that she cannot travel, she has MS if I remember correctly and lives alone. In my understanding this breeder was willing to make the 6 hour drive and bring Nickee this puppy.


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## IzzysBellasMom

elly said:


> . Spoiled Maltese does not support BYB, puppy mills and especially buying designer puppies (morkie) :angry:


 
This needs to be added to the home page, no where on there does it state this and to my understanding no where on this site have I read this. If this is how the site is you should make it clear from the start.


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## maltese manica

I dont hate Nickee and I can never ever hate her! I love Nickee, but am disappointed in the choice that she made. Its hard on me to stand here and say this, but its hard for me to stand here and watch the abuse or the sickness and other problems with BYB Puppy millers and puppy brokers! True Nickee you dont owe anything to anyone of us and its may not be our business on where and how much you got your baby from.............................. but at the same time please take the time and flip the coin..................... how bout the countless times I have told ppl that I am here fighting against this sort of thing................. you dont owe me and I dont owe you, and SM doesnt owe anything to anyone here but DONT we OWE it to our love of dogs??? If you want to block me from your life that is your choice entirley, if ppl want to say I am trying to be a bully .......... sorry I am not! I am sad over this, I fight so hard everyday working with big time animal activists for this pet store in richmond hill to shut down!!! She gets her dogs from puppymills that are covered in mange and die of parvo! Plus in the mean time I have discovered a huger underground ring of the BYB and pet stores and how they operate! Can I please tell you it scares the **** right out of me! Anyways I do wish you the best of life and hope things go and continue to be well for you Nickee. And if there are any other members that disagree with me or want to block me pleaes go ahead. I feel so battered and tired! And No I dont want to bully Nickee or anyone else........... just that I fight so hard towards this sort of thing, plus i have seen first hand on the illnesses that crop up in dogs that have not been breed properly and its heart wrenching to the point of wanting to curl up in a ball and die!!! Sorry for my ramblings!


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## Orla

IzzysBellasMom said:


> This needs to be added to the home page, no where on there does it state this and to my understanding no where on this site have I read this. If this is how the site is you should make it clear from the start.


well it's hardly pro puppy mills :blink:
I guess having it written on the homepage would be good, but I don't see how anyone would think a group of people who love maltese would be pro BYB's and mills.


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## Summergirl73

maltese manica said:


> I dont hate Nickee and I can never ever hate her! I love Nickee, but am disappointed in the choice that she made. Its hard on me to stand here and say this, but its hard for me to stand here and watch the abuse or the sickness and other problems with BYB Puppy millers and puppy brokers! True Nickee you dont owe anything to anyone of us and its may not be our business on where and how much you got your baby from.............................. but at the same time please take the time and flip the coin..................... how bout the countless times I have told ppl that I am here fighting against this sort of thing................. you dont owe me and I dont owe you, and SM doesnt owe anything to anyone here but DONT we OWE it to our love of dogs??? If you want to block me from your life that is your choice entirley, if ppl want to say I am trying to be a bully .......... sorry I am not! I am sad over this, I fight so hard everyday working with big time animal activists for this pet store in richmond hill to shut down!!! She gets her dogs from puppymills that are covered in mange and die of parvo! Plus in the mean time I have discovered a huger underground ring of the BYB and pet stores and how they operate! Can I please tell you it scares the **** right out of me! Anyways I do wish you the best of life and hope things go and continue to be well for you Nickee. And if there are any other members that disagree with me or want to block me pleaes go ahead. I feel so battered and tired! And No I dont want to bully Nickee or anyone else........... just that I fight so hard towards this sort of thing, plus i have seen first hand on the illnesses that crop up in dogs that have not been breed properly and its heart wrenching to the point of wanting to curl up in a ball and die!!! Sorry for my ramblings!


 
Very, very well said.


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## Snuggle's Mom

I think everyone has made their point and their opinions heard. Now, can we just leave this alone and let Nickee and her two fluffs live in peace???!!! And no one should feel guilty as to where they got their Dog from either. especially if their were not aware of the horrible conditions that some dogs have had to live in. Again, enough is enough!!! 

Truly speaking from my stand point of view, I sure have learned a lot from this Forum even though both of my Dogs did not come from what everyone calls a reputable Breeder. Snuggles is now just a bit over 14 and Chrissy will be 6 in December and fortunately, except for Dental issues, are in perfect health according to my Vet.

I too was not aware but my heart gave way over my head. Next time will certainly be different for me.


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## Bamalama

I don't know a lot about the BYBs and millers (and let me say I will NOT support either!), and I may be shot down for asking... but what about all the puppies who ARE the results of BYBs? What happens to them if suddenly people stop buying them? I realize the breeders will stop breeding for lack of financial funds, but will the dogs end up facing life in a shelter anyway (under worse conditions) when they start growing up beyond the cute puppy stage with no homes to go to?

A co-worker fosters. She talked a friend out of getting a pup from a BYB. A few weeks later, the County closed down the BYB, taking all the dogs, including the pup her friend had wanted. She is now going to "rescue" that same pup.

I totally understand buying from a reputable breeder or rescuing, but are all of the rest of the innocent dogs thrown away as garbage (and "casualties of war") because they don't meet those specific criteria??

Just curious about the perspective here. I think all creatures have the right to love and happiness, but that's just me.....


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## maltese manica

Bamalama said:


> I don't know a lot about the BYBs and millers (and let me say I will NOT support either!), and I may be shot down for asking... but what about all the puppies who ARE the results of BYBs? What happens to them if suddenly people stop buying them? I realize the breeders will stop breeding for lack of financial funds, but will the dogs end up facing life in a shelter anyway (under worse conditions) when they start growing up beyond the cute puppy stage with no homes to go to?
> 
> A co-worker fosters. She talked a friend out of getting a pup from a BYB. A few weeks later, the County closed down the BYB, taking all the dogs, including the pup her friend had wanted. She is now going to "rescue" that same pup.
> 
> I totally understand buying from a reputable breeder or rescuing, but are all of the rest of the innocent dogs thrown away as garbage (and "casualties of war") because they don't meet those specific criteria??
> 
> Just curious about the perspective here. I think all creatures have the right to love and happiness, but that's just me.....


 
Please come take a look at the fb page my friend created! https://www.facebook.com/StopTheSaleOfPetsInStores


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## Bamalama

I do understand. We have a "facilitator" locally, a shop that bills itself as a pet shop. It gets various puppies from local "breeders" (who are OBVIOUSLY BYBs) around the area. Many are promoted as "teacups." It was my first experience with BYBs. It comes across as such a wonderful shop, but then you realize the pups are all way too young to be away from their mothers, they are terrified, several have had major health issues. I went in several times and just had bad vibes about it.


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## Orla

Snuggle's Mom said:


> I think everyone has made their point and their opinions heard. Now, ca*n we just leave this alone and let Nickee and her two fluffs live in peace???!!! And no one should feel guilty as to where they got their Dog from either. especially if their were not aware of the horrible conditions that some dogs have had to live in.* Again, enough is enough!!!
> 
> Truly speaking from my stand point of view, I sure have learned a lot from this Forum even though both of my Dogs did not come from what everyone calls a reputable Breeder. Snuggles is now just a bit over 14 and Chrissy will be 6 in December and fortunately, except for Dental issues, are in perfect health according to my Vet.
> 
> I too was not aware but my heart gave way over my head. Next time will certainly be different for me.


But the reason most people are upset is that Nickee knew all too well about puppy mills and BYB's


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## Summergirl73

Sara - good for you for asking the tough questions. The idea is not to BUY from a backyard breeder. Rescues and adoptions are great opportunities to save the life of an animal. BYB and Puppy Mills depend on pulling on your heart strings. They want you to think that you are doing something great by "adopting" their dog - then they go to breed, breed and greed. You just have to know the ins and outs to determine when someone is shutting down a "Greeder" and doing rescue work, verses when someone is selling for profit. It's hard sometimes, but with the right questions and enough digging, you can determine that you are helping and not hurting. Hopefully others can add to that line of thought. The "Greeder" who sold this dog that is discussed on this thread sees nothing wrong with breeding dogs and selling them - like they are a piece of furniture. Sure they are "cute and loved" but at the end of the day make NO MISTAKE it's about cash in her pocket.


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## StevieB

Bamalama said:


> I don't know a lot about the BYBs and millers (and let me say I will NOT support either!), and I may be shot down for asking... but what about all the puppies who ARE the results of BYBs? What happens to them if suddenly people stop buying them? I realize the breeders will stop breeding for lack of financial funds, but will the dogs end up facing life in a shelter anyway (under worse conditions) when they start growing up beyond the cute puppy stage with no homes to go to?
> 
> A co-worker fosters. She talked a friend out of getting a pup from a BYB. A few weeks later, the County closed down the BYB, taking all the dogs, including the pup her friend had wanted. She is now going to "rescue" that same pup.
> 
> I totally understand buying from a reputable breeder or rescuing, but are all of the rest of the innocent dogs thrown away as garbage (and "casualties of war") because they don't meet those specific criteria??
> 
> Just curious about the perspective here. I think all creatures have the right to love and happiness, but that's just me.....


Yes, if they pass the cute stage and don't sell then hopefully they will be thrown away like garbage to the shelters and picked up by a rescue then adopted. Then hopefully the BYB will stop breeding b/c there's no money in it. That's how I got Steve! He was dumped at the shelter by a BYB when he was 10 months old and wasn't sold, rescued then adopted and now spoiled rotten. And then maybe one day there will be educated consumers who will demand thoughtfully bred dogs which will open a door for more passionate breeders who want to breed for health and temperament and to a breed standard and prescreen applicants to make sure they are qualified to properly care for a dog.


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## Bamalama

Sort of like a woman who falls in love with the wrong kind of guy, knowing her parents won't approve, but it's how she feels? (sorry, not meaning to make light of it, but it does sort of seem comparable)


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## StevieB

Let's be clear - This was not "screwing up" or "making a mistake". This was a conscious decision that flew in the face of the well known long standing beliefs held by the majority of the contributors on this forum. So it should be of no surprise to anyone that this is the reaction it got. Why some people are pointing fingers and calling us judgmental and intolerant is beyond me. ABSOLUTELY everyone has the right to make their own decisions and live their life how they want, but then don't throw it in the face of people who you KNOW strongly disagree with it and act all indignant when they get angry with you. Maybe we seem do intolerant, but there is good reason for that. Give an inch and they take a mile and next thing you know it suddenly becomes ok to support mills and BYBs as long as you're nice or will give the puppy a good home, or it felt right, you're tight on money, etc. I think most every person on here started out, at some point, ignorant about the pitfalls of BYBs and why they are unethical. But you learn that it's bad, and you learn WHY it's bad, and you learn about the long range repercussions, and some people will make a decision to NOT contribute to that industry under any circumstances, and some will ignore the facts and support it anyway. Which is frustrating. No doubt, sometimes it's hard to do the right thing, especially when we want something so bad.


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## maggieh

StevieB said:


> Yes, if they pass the cute stage and don't sell then hopefully they will be thrown away like garbage to the shelters and picked up by a rescue then adopted. Then hopefully the BYB will stop breeding b/c there's no money in it. That's how I got Steve! He was dumped at the shelter by a BYB when he was 10 months old and wasn't sold, rescued then adopted and now spoiled rotten. And then maybe one day there will be educated consumers who will demand thoughtfully bred dogs which will open a door for more passionate breeders who want to breed for health and temperament and to a breed standard and prescreen applicants to make sure they are qualified to properly care for a dog.


Yes, many of the dogs and puppies that wind up in rescue are mill dogs. My friend Sandi adopted a Cavalier who was a mill mom - she was in deplorable condition when Sandi got her and still, 18 months later, is very timid around people. This is the suffering that people who buy that cute little puppy and think they "saved" it are encouraging - every time that happens, the mom (and other mill moms) suffer more.


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## Bamalama

So what is the solution? Sacrifice all dogs except those with pure bloodlines? I'm a problem-solver, so I tend to see a problem and search for a solution to it.


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## maggieh

IzzysBellasMom said:


> I just want to remind everyone that Nickee did apply online TWICE to try to get a rescue. She was never contacted by Mary or anyone from the rescue, and I don't remember anyone here who knows Mary stepping up to help her get the right puppy from rescue. I know because she has stated before, that she cannot travel, she has MS if I remember correctly and lives alone. In my understanding this breeder was willing to make the 6 hour drive and bring Nickee this puppy.


Remember there are two sides to every story and you only heard one version of Nickee's rescue applications. Just so you know, at least one person from at least one rescue did communicate with her. Please remember that volunteers associated with rescue do not go into detail publicly about the status of applicants, nor should they.


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## eiksaa

Bamalama said:


> So what is the solution? Sacrifice all dogs except those with pure bloodlines? I'm a problem-solver, so I tend to see a problem and search for a solution to it.


Glad you asked. Stop buying from these people. That will stop funding their operations. They will shut down. 

That's the solution. 


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## maggieh

eiksaa said:


> Glad you asked. Stop buying from these people. That will stop funding their operations. They will shut down.
> 
> That's the solution.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Absolutely!


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## Bamalama

But, being a realist, is that going to happen? If she breeds and no one buys her puppies, what happens to the puppies? I can see how EVENTUALLY she will shut down, but until then, it isn't going to happen.

A local BYB has all of her dams listed as "free" right now. I am assuming she is getting in a new set of dams for future breeding. I won't support her, but for every one person who doesn't, there is another for every puppy she has who will.


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## StevieB

Bamalama said:


> But, being a realist, is that going to happen? If she breeds and no one buys her puppies, what happens to the puppies? I can see how EVENTUALLY she will shut down, but until then, it isn't going to happen.
> 
> A local BYB has all of her dams listed as "free" right now. I am assuming she is getting in a new set of dams for future breeding. I won't support her, but for every one person who doesn't, there is another for every puppy she has who will.


That may be true, so be the person who "doesn't". :thumbsup:


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## pammy4501

Bamalama said:


> But, being a realist, is that going to happen? If she breeds and no one buys her puppies, what happens to the puppies? I can see how EVENTUALLY she will shut down, but until then, it isn't going to happen.
> 
> A local BYB has all of her dams listed as "free" right now. I am assuming she is getting in a new set of dams for future breeding. I won't support her, but for every one person who doesn't, there is another for every puppy she has who will.


 What will happen is the dogs will eventually find their way to rescue (hoepfully). The problem here is that (and I feel like a broken record here) that if these people continue to profit, they will continue to breed. Simple supply and demand. Cut off the funding and they will stop. Utimaltey, it is a completely selfish thing to knowingly (and I emphysize KNOWLINGLY) purchase a dog from these people. Even if you rationalize to yourself that you are giving this dog a better home. You have now promoted the behavior, aided the breeder in breeding that mommy one more time and on and on. The cycle has to stop.


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## edelweiss

nwyant1946 said:


> *You are way more correct than you will ever know. Nickee is a good friend of mine....Bogi and Yogi are her life...I've never seen such nasty comments on here before, and I'm seriously rethinking being on this forum anymore. Nickee doesn't deserve this. That dog will have the best home ever and doesn't that count at all? Morkie, Yorky, Maltese, what is the difference?? I have three people in my area who have Morkies....and deliberately got them...that doesn't give me the right to read them the riot act when I see them or make them feel like garbage because they have Morkies. Their dogs are loved beyond belief. Oh well, everyone has their opinion. I'm just happy for Nickee...and she is over the moon and that's important to me. I seriously hope I never screw up on this forum. You people can be very judgmental over and above the subject at hand...*


I haven't read all of this yet as I am on holiday, but I would gently remind this poster that it is against SM rules to "threaten" to leave SM. It is okay to stay, or to go but not to intimate that one is leaving.:wub:


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## Summergirl73

IzzysBellasMom said:


> :goodpost:
> 
> In my understanding this breeder was willing to make the 6 hour drive and bring Nickee this puppy.


True, but Nickee is also aware (as is most anyone who visits SM on a regular basis) that I also offer transport all the time to anyone interested in rescuing a fluff. Driving a fluff to her door for a good home would have not have been a question. I would have done it for her. 

A BYB was NOT her only option. There are a countless "unstructured" rescue groups and individuals that she could have used and would never have even been screened. Individuals are in tough situations every day that need to rehome their pets and do not use a formal rescue group to do that. Let's not say that because certain doors were closed to her that there were no other doors available. It is simply untrue.


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## edelweiss

StevieB said:


> Let's be clear - This was not "screwing up" or "making a mistake". This was a conscious decision that flew in the face of the well known long standing beliefs held by the majority of the contributors on this forum. So it should be of no surprise to anyone that this is the reaction it got. Why some people are pointing fingers and calling us judgmental and intolerant is beyond me. ABSOLUTELY everyone has the right to make their own decisions and live their life how they want, but then don't throw it in the face of people who you KNOW strongly disagree with it and act all indignant when they get angry with you. Maybe we seem do intolerant, but there is good reason for that. Give an inch and they take a mile and next thing you know it suddenly becomes ok to support mills and BYBs as long as you're nice or will give the puppy a good home, or it felt right, you're tight on money, etc. I think most every person on here started out, at some point, ignorant about the pitfalls of BYBs and why they are unethical. But you learn that it's bad, and you learn WHY it's bad, and you learn about the long range repercussions, and some people will make a decision to NOT contribute to that industry under any circumstances, and some will ignore the facts and support it anyway. Which is frustrating. No doubt, sometimes it's hard to do the right thing, especially when we want something so bad.


:ThankYou::goodpost: Very level headed, fair & articulate post! :wub:


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## Daisy's Mommie

I am just seeing this "discussion" and frankly, I am floored. I have learned so much since joining SM about BYB's and puppy mills that I never knew before. To be honest, I don't know where my babies "originated". I kept Zoey from going to the shelter when his owner (his 3rd in 3 years) decided that she didn't want him in her new house and I found Daisy Grace through an ad in the newspaper-the owner said she had to get "rid" of her because she had to find a job. I love my angels more than my life and I wouldn't change a thing about them. They have both been amazingly healthy. Since I do not know where they originally came from, I consider myself truly fortunate after hearing about all the health problems from BYB's and puppy mill babies. IfI am ever lucky enough to find another furchild, I will make sure that he/she comes from a reputable breeder or rescue and that my $'s will never go toward BYB's or puppy mills.


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## StevieB

This thread is being closed per OP request.


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