# dog fights are escalating :(



## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

Hello everyone ,

just wanted some advice since i have never dealt with this so far ....

Luna and Becky get along most of the time but today my daughters boyfriend came over and that is Lunas favorite person in the whole world and Becky went to see him also and bang huge dogfight lasted about 3 minutes they are gettin longer and more intense thus far I have not interfered and let them go maybe iots wrong , but we have 2 dominant bitches here and im afraid and do not know what to do they respesct me but they fight over things and now I see it has escalated with humans also what do i do do i seperate them maybe im not doing the right thing by letting them go  please anyone help because i worry they will really hurt them selves eventually nobody willing to submit ????????
and my daughters boyfriend got really afraid of all of this and my dad told me that he was here when it happened that they will kill themselves one day  no blood or anything just sounded real vicious 

Anna xo


----------



## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

No advice this time. Laurel never fights with Violet, only Hardy. He submits to her..... Plus........ He is always bugging her, when she's had enough... LOOK OUT HARDY!!!! Maybe in time, things will get better .... I hope so!


----------



## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

Hey sweet Debbie ,

I will call the breeder later on because i specifacally asked for a submissive puppy thought i can handle it but im getting worried


----------



## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

I would get advice from Jackie(JMM)


----------



## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

Hey Cathy i thought of her right away , but do not know how to pm her ???? how do i go to her page????


Anna xoxoxo


----------



## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

aksm4 said:


> Hey Cathy i thought of her right away , but do not know how to pm her ???? how do i go to her page????
> 
> 
> Anna xoxoxo


Just send her a pm from spoiled maltese:thumbsup:


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

aksm4 said:


> Hey sweet Debbie ,
> 
> I will call the breeder later on because i specifacally asked for a submissive puppy thought i can handle it but im getting worried


I would definitely call your breeder. This is not a good situation that seems to be getting worse.


----------



## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

Oh Marj yes i will call her , im wondering what she would be willing to do ???? if anything


----------



## SweetMalteseAngels (Oct 16, 2011)

I am not sure if this will be same for you or not I will share my experience with my two fluffs. My two fought alot in the beginning. I was worried and didnt know what to do at first. I read a lot online in search of some answers as to why they may be fighting and I came across this one paricular article online. It said that dogs are pack animals and they need to establish a pecking order. The article said that until that is established, they will keep fighting to establish order. They also mentioned about things that we as humans that disturbs their pecking order. For example, Mimi (my female fluff) has higher pecking order than Milo (my male fluff) but in the beginning I used to give Milo attention first or sometimes give him treats first. The article said that in their world, I need to respect that Mimi has higher pecking order than Milo by doing everything with Mimi first and then Milo. I noticed that if I pick up Milo first to give him affection and not Mimi first, she will get aggressive with Milo. The article said that by me doing that, it makes Mimi feel threatened in terms of her pecking order so she has to "show" him that she is higher pecking order than him by being aggressive with him. It was the same thing with food, etc. Her attacking him decreased the more I respected their pecking order by doing everything first with Mimi and then Milo.

This was my experience with my fluffs and they are pretty good now. I hope you find a solution soon.


----------



## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

In the meantime, until you get some advice from somebody with more experience, please separate them when they start fighting. If they haven't worked it out by just letting them fight, you as the owner need to do something more. Just letting them fight doesn't seem to be the answer.

I have two male rescues (one malt/mix and a chihuahua mix) who have been together for a couple of years--best buddies until something happens and suddenly there's an awful-sounding fight going on. They are both middle aged so I think I've done the best I can with them, and I do not leave them home alone loose together. 

Your dogs are more likely to be able to learn--whether to get along or to fight harder may depend on you! So please at least in the meantime separate them when they start to fight. 

:grouphug:


----------



## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

this is the question im having with myself to seperate or let them be hoping Jackie will come along and help me out here ......


----------



## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

well guys i just spoke to the breeder just as expected she tells me oh my Becky was not DOMINANt i said what sure she was from day 1 she will not let us put her on her back for nothing who are u kidding ??? she is like I will call my breeder friends and ask them for advice and call you tomorrow i have guests right now , i guess i will have to figure this out myself .......... i never thought she would take responsibility or accept she sold me a dominant pup but when we would speak after the purchase and i would tell her Becky is dominant she had no problem joking about it , but now that i was serious about it like so how can you help me , she denied it and she had to go ......

Anna xoxox


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

aksm4 said:


> well guys i just spoke to the breeder just as expected she tells me oh my Becky was not DOMINANt i said what sure she was from day 1 she will not let us put her on her back for nothing who are u kidding ??? she is like I will call my breeder friends and ask them for advice and call you tomorrow i have guests right now , i guess i will have to figure this out myself .......... i never thought she would take responsibility or accept she sold me a dominant pup but when we would speak after the purchase and i would tell her Becky is dominant she had no problem joking about it , but now that i was serious about it like so how can you help me , she denied it and she had to go ......
> 
> Anna xoxox


Becky was a singleton, wasn't she? It might be hard to tell since she had no siblings.

I am very sorry Becky's breeder wasn't more helpful. How about a private trainer to evaluate her?


----------



## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Ladysmom said:


> Becky was a singleton, wasn't she? It might be hard to tell since she had no siblings.
> 
> I am very sorry Becky's breeder wasn't more helpful. How about a private trainer to evaluate her?


Jackie will most likely be unavailable for a few days so don't get upset if she doesn't respond right away.

Are they "I want to kill you" fighting or just brawling? If they are "I want to kill you", I would separate them immediately. I don't put up with that kind of fighting at my house. You'll be able to tell the difference, the tone is different and it is truly vicious rather than the dogs just being a [email protected] and sounding vicious. 

I wouldn't say that your breeder is telling you something that isn't/wasn't true - she truly could have been less dominant at her house. There is no way to 100% predict how a puppy is going to adapt to a new house, new owners, new dogs, etc. And if she was a singleton, like marj pointed out, that is going to add to things. I personally would not blame the breeder for all of this - you've had her for a little awhile and have admitted you've let her get away with stuff. Puppies are sometimes too smart for their own good! If she's being a brat, some of that may be because she's figured out that she can get away with acting that way. This is just my opinion and since I have never met either you or your pup in person, it is hard to say with any certainty what is going on! 

Remember that breeders have lives too and aren't always available 100% of the time. I sure hope you get some answers, but for now, I would not let them fight. If you are worried that you will be bit if you separate them, then that is the type of fighting that should not be allowed. Good luck!!


----------



## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm sorry that things aren't going very smoothly, Anna  I'm surprised that a Malt puppy that young would show such dominance. I hope that this problem can be worked through with the help of a good trainer.

Hugs,


----------



## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Hopefully you will hear from Jackie soon  Personally I would never let them fight. Play fighting is one thing and looks totally different to aggression. I watch my two very carefully, particularly as Penny is so much smaller than Lola, I find if they seem a bit irritated with each other, or the playfighting is a bit on the rough side then it works best to distract them. Throw a ball or call them for quick sit stays or whatever, followed by treat. They seem to settle a lot easier that way. Tire them both by throwing balls or playing. Tired dogs are usually happy and more compliant. Hope it improves. 

As far as dominance is concerned I have no idea which is more dominant in our house. It is pretty odd, but Lola hates being in her back. It has taken a couple of years for her to be more comfortable with belly rubs. Penny on the other hand is more accommodating that way, but if they both run for a toy then Lola always lets Penny have it, and if Penny has a bone or toy, then Lola wouldn't dare try and get it off her or she spits at her like a cat. So I am not sure that dominance plays a big part in getting along. I am the one in charge at my house. If one is out of line then they get time out just as my kids did.


----------



## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

bellaratamaltese said:


> Jackie will most likely be unavailable for a few days so don't get upset if she doesn't respond right away.
> 
> Are they "I want to kill you" fighting or just brawling? If they are "I want to kill you", I would separate them immediately. I don't put up with that kind of fighting at my house. You'll be able to tell the difference, the tone is different and it is truly vicious rather than the dogs just being a [email protected] and sounding vicious.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Anna, please don't use the Alpha Roll on Becky. It could make things worse.

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/54-maltese-training/96022-rolling-over-alpha-roll.html

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/54-...thout-dominance-theory-where-do-we-stand.html


----------



## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Puppies learn 'manners' from their littermates (and mom) so her being a singleton could be a factor of her not knowing when to stop. 

Is it just Luna getting mad and snarling and putting Becky in her place? And then Becky getting riled up and bugging her even more? If so, that sounds like 'normal' behavior at my house. Some puppies love to annoy the adults. If that is the case, I wouldn't call that being 'dominant' I would call that fairly typical puppy behavior.

This is what I mean by 'I want to kill you' fighting that should not be allowed

Bad Dog Fight Attacks Maggie - YouTube (the second fight esp) 

If it's just puppy annoyance and snarling, Luna is teaching Becky some manners.


----------



## lyndy (Jul 9, 2011)

Here is what i have learned from small dog playgroup. When the boyfriend comes in try to have him come completely in your house and not hang by a door or corner to greet them. If he is picking one of them up and that dog is growling at the other one have him immediately put her down. Don't pick them up when either of them is doing the haha i have him and you don't growl, snarl etc. If they start fighting separate them for a minute and then try again. Just today I was picking up my friend's malt and she started growling at Daisy so I put her right back down. Same thing happened at playgroup the other day when i picked up a dog and one of the other dogs lost it and came charging. We separated them and I carried the dog away from the wall and we tried again. I am by no means a dog expert and i am sure a trainer would give you better advice, but that is what I know. I used to freak out about Daisy getting in fights (she can be possessive over people and doesn't like dogs in her face all the time), but after a lot of playgroups she is much better. She still needs a lot of work and a lot of it has to do with her comfort level at different places, but I have seen improvement. It is a different situation than yours, but I bet with a bit of training you can learn to correct the behavior. 

I agree with everyone else that this is not really a breeder issue. That is just not something that can be guaranteed.


----------



## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

My two cents again--

If it happens again, maybe you could film a few seconds of the fight--and then separate them. Don't let it go on for three minutes again until people can help you figure out what to do. Better safe than sorry!


----------



## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

bellaratamaltese said:


> Puppies learn 'manners' from their littermates (and mom) so her being a singleton could be a factor of her not knowing when to stop.
> 
> Is it just Luna getting mad and snarling and putting Becky in her place? And then Becky getting riled up and bugging her even more? If so, that sounds like 'normal' behavior at my house. Some puppies love to annoy the adults. If that is the case, I wouldn't call that being 'dominant' I would call that fairly typical puppy behavior.
> 
> ...


 
well adly to say it looks kind of like in the video but with little dogs  , so i seperated them ??? but thank you again sooo much .


----------



## doobie mommy (Feb 18, 2012)

This is just my way of dealing with situation from training many dogs over the years but I am not a "trainer"...from experience only.

You may try this...Put a leash on Becky when you know company is coming. Have them or the boyfriend ignore both dogs. If Becky starts to fight, pull her away with the leash and make her sit by you. Keep the leash taught but don't pull on it, step on it with your foot just to keep her by you until she 'relaxes'...give her a tiny treat for being a good girl. Give her a little more leash, if she starts to become agressive again, put her back in sit position again. Do this until she learns that she must not behave that way in your house ! 

She should learn this pretty quick and hopefully solve the problem when you take the control back and not let her have it. She will eventually learn when taught that you are the leader, will be a happier dog and will love you for taking control. 

Maybe in another closed room of your house you could take a few minutes several times a day to train her to sit or down on command with treats. Seems she is out of control and needs discipline so no one will get hurt.

Dogs are so smart, we spoil them and wonder why they act like brats :wub:


----------



## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

The fights are scary, aren't they?! When Mona Lisa first got here, Ava would attack her all the time for the first week....then they finally got along and are best of friends now. But, Momma Mia is a different story!! :w00t: Ava HATES her. The fights are constant, I separate them every time because when I let them go, Ava doesn't stop. Momma Mia is bigger than her and I'm afraid someone is going to get hurt.

Like you, if it doesn't get better, I don't know what's gonna happen! Momma Mia is very needy and wants me all to herself, she wants to push Ava out. ......not good...:blink::angry:


----------



## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

Hey Pat thank you for your input so im not the only one , I feel as im not doing something right i am blaming myself


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Anna, I would really urge you to consult a certified behaviorist. She will come to your home and evaluate Becky, then teach you how to handle the situation. There is no way a novice like you can handle this without professional help and those of us on SM aren't able to witness the fights. And with the exception of JMM, none of us are trainers either.


----------



## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

Goodmorning Marj yes i have thought of this myself , i will look into it .........


Anna xoo


----------



## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Anna,
I was given this Association of Pet Dog Trainers - Dog Training Resources for trainers by Jackie. It's a great site. I found a trainer 2 miles from my house. Most normally do an in-home eval first to determine the situation. There is no magic bullet. But Becky will probably train easily, and everyone in your house has to be on the same page. Like you, I know I need to ask for help. Everything will work out, you just need someone to show you what to do girl! Like me..(with Sammie's fear issues). From the little bit of training he got after surgery, I saw how wonderful trainers are and how fast they can accomplish what I never would have on my own. It's just too hard for me to know what to do. I don't want to be making him worse.:smilie_tischkante:


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Ladysmom said:


> Anna, I would really urge you to consult a certified behaviorist. She will come to your home and evaluate Becky, then teach you how to handle the situation. There is no way a novice like you can handle this without professional help and those of us on SM aren't able to witness the fights. And with the exception of JMM, none of us are trainers either.



:thumbsup: I second this -- get a professional in. Sounds like this is too big of an issue to ignore or try to fix yourself.


It is not your fault, so please don't blame yourself.

I will say - imo - I would never get two dogs of the same sex. I know many have them without any incident - but this is a very common occurrence. Two females (or males) will fight for the alpha role. In a male - female situation, the female is usually alpha and the male just takes his place below her.

But you have Becky now, and assuming you aren't considering giving her back? So please get a behaviorist in there who can work face to face with you.


----------



## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Hi Anna,
I posted a link for you in my prev post. I believe you can search outside US too.


----------



## brendaman (Mar 7, 2006)

Anna,

I hope you do take Kandis' advice and find a professional to help you. We lost our Shayna about 7 weeks ago when she got away from me and went after a big dog. Shayna had always been a dominant dog. We take her to day care, and she's fine. But with certain dogs, she seems to go from zero to attack mode. I know there must have been signs. If we only had consulted a professional, maybe we would not have lost her. We always thought we would have time to consult with a professional once the weather grew warmer. I dropped her leash to put my coat on, and she saw the big dog and before I could move . . . 

Shayna was trained by a good professional when she was a puppy and as a teenager, but he did mention that perhaps when she was older she would need remedial training in a few years as he saw Shayna's dominance. I'll never know what we could have done, and I have to live with the tragedy and heartache forever. 

Every dog is different. There may be more things you could do, but if you're struggling and wonder what is the best way, please do not hesitate to contact a professional.

Best,
Brenda


----------



## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

brendaman said:


> Anna,
> 
> I hope you do take Kandis' advice and find a professional to help you. We lost our Shayna about 7 weeks ago when she got away from me and went after a big dog. Shayna had always been a dominant dog. We take her to day care, and she's fine. But with certain dogs, she seems to go from zero to attack mode. I know there must have been signs. If we only had consulted a professional, maybe we would not have lost her. We always thought we would have time to consult with a professional once the weather grew warmer. I dropped her leash to put my coat on, and she saw the big dog and before I could move . . .
> 
> ...


:goodpost:


----------



## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

SammieMom said:


> Hi Anna,
> I posted a link for you in my prev post. I believe you can search outside US too.


 
Thank you sweet Kandis xoxoxoxoxoxoox:wub:


----------



## mommatee (Jul 20, 2010)

SweetMalteseAngels said:


> I am not sure if this will be same for you or not I will share my experience with my two fluffs. My two fought alot in the beginning. I was worried and didnt know what to do at first. I read a lot online in search of some answers as to why they may be fighting and I came across this one paricular article online. It said that dogs are pack animals and they need to establish a pecking order. The article said that until that is established, they will keep fighting to establish order. They also mentioned about things that we as humans that disturbs their pecking order. For example, Mimi (my female fluff) has higher pecking order than Milo (my male fluff) but in the beginning I used to give Milo attention first or sometimes give him treats first. The article said that in their world, I need to respect that Mimi has higher pecking order than Milo by doing everything with Mimi first and then Milo. I noticed that if I pick up Milo first to give him affection and not Mimi first, she will get aggressive with Milo. The article said that by me doing that, it makes Mimi feel threatened in terms of her pecking order so she has to "show" him that she is higher pecking order than him by being aggressive with him. It was the same thing with food, etc. Her attacking him decreased the more I respected their pecking order by doing everything first with Mimi and then Milo.
> 
> This was my experience with my fluffs and they are pretty good now. I hope you find a solution soon.


Excellent post! I never knew this, but glad I do now. I have 2 pups that don't fight but the oldest one belongs to my step-daughter and she may be taking her in August when she gets an apartment. If that happens, I'll be getting another malt.


----------

