# Pico had a health screen



## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

Pico had his bi-annual health screen done yesterday and the results were good! Thanks to LadysMom I have the Blood Chemistry Values chart off the internet and I can read his results myself now, even though my vet always discusses them with me. By the way, his MVD Maltese is 13 years old now. 

Anyway, Pico's ALTS were 438, down from 685 in June 04. (normal is 10-118)
His BUN was 20 (normal is 7-25)

His WBC was a little below normal but the vet wasn't concerned as this can be caused by stress and going to the vet is stressful for Pico because of all the animal smells and other animals he encounters there plus being held for blood testing, etc.

If any of you vets-to-be can help me I would like to know what MCV, MCHC and MPV are. His MCV was high and the other two were low, meaning they were all out of range. My vet didn't mention those but I am curious as to their meaning. They weren't listed on the Blood Chem Values chart, either.

All in all, for an MVD dog, we are happy with his numbers.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

ok before i answer ur question did ur vet say it was high, or are you saying it was high..basically what are the values? b/c if it is just a tiny bit high/low then it is usually insignificant...but if it is truely high, than it can mean a few things.

well i will tell you their definitions...
they are not part of the chem panel that is why they are not on your chart, they are part of the complete blood count...
MCV is mean corpuscular volume, which is basically the size of the red blood cells...if the MCV is high then u r looking at Macrocytosis which is large red blood cells.
MCH which u dont have listed is the mean corpuscular hemoglobin..basically is the amount of hemoglobin in each red blood cell. if it is high u get darker red blood cells (poly chromasia) if it is low you get pale RBC (hypochromasia)
MCHC (mean cell hemoglobin concentration) is a calculated value from the MCH divided by the MCV. but the MCHC usually reflect what the MCH is.
the MPV is the mean platelet volume this is a value that usually is not accurate on a cbc

now that i bored u to death...any questions


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## 020202 (Jan 26, 2005)

I have no idea about the test results but I'm thrilled that Pico is doing so well. I know you must be very pleased and relieved.


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## Sisses Momma (Dec 29, 2004)

So glad to hear Pico is doing so well!! Breath a sigh of relief and give hugs from Sisee and I !!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

So glad to hear Pico had a good check up!


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## danah (Jan 8, 2005)

Great News!!







Glad to hear Picos checkup was okay!


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

I'm so happy that you are happy with Pico's results. I don't really know much about the tests that Pico got done, but if you're happy it's good enough for me!!!


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## Maltese Adora-Belle (Jan 23, 2005)

I am so happy you are happy with Pico's reports. Belle and I sent our love.


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

Extra treats for Pico...glad to hear all is well.


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

Thank you all for your well wishes. I know many of you have absolutely no idea what I am talking about but I know there are several on this forum whose furbabies also have Microvascular Dysplasia (MVD) and I wanted to share Pico's experience with this.

Lady Montava, I pretty much understood what you said but don't really know what most of it means in terms of Pico's health. His WBC was 5.4, a bit low but Doc wasn't concerned about it. MCV was 75 (high), MCHC was 31.2 (low) and MVP was 5.9 (also low). Also no concern from my vet. Since he has 3 Malts now and one with MVD plus 3 or 4 at Rainbow Bridge I am pretty confident in his assessments.

Now Pico can get his teeth cleaned but my vet wants me to wait until he returns from a trip because he wants to be there when Pico is anesthesized. What a blessing to have a vet like him!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

according to my "normals" those values were normal.and the wbc was slightly low...so that is why he wasnt worried. apparently if they were high according to his machine it wasnt a significant increase.


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

Oh, good! Thank you LadyM......it is so wonderful to have you on this forum.

Pico sends a kiss!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

no prob! glad I could tell you good news!


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## Carol Ann (Dec 5, 2004)

Very glad Pico is ok!!!!







Also glad that we have Lady M here - you are such a wonderful resource and wealth of info.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Is Pico on Denosyl? Vitamin E or other antioxidant?


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## puppylucy (Jan 8, 2005)

So glad he's doing better

Just thought I'd add though that he's amazzzzingly cute haha. That's exactly what I want little Lucy's hair to look like when she's older.


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

JMM,

Yes he takes 90mg Denosyl daily on an empty stomach and has been taking it since he was diagnosed around 1 year.

No other supplements, though. He gets little treats at our mealtime such as peanut butter, sweet potatoe, brown rice, green bean, squash, whole wheat toast bite, things like that. Just the tiniest amounts, though, just enough to jump start his appetite and then he generally cleans his plate of l/d.

I'll ask my vet about antioxidants. What do you recommend?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Anitoxidants can be good for the liver. Vit E or something like 3V caps can be given. Dr. Center recommended Vit E for my dogs. It is a pretty low dose that she recommended and she feels it is very safe long-term at that dose. Mikey got 25 IU once a day (he's on so many other meds right now, he's not getting the Vit E).


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@Feb 19 2005, 06:24 PM
> *JMM,
> 
> Yes he takes 90mg Denosyl daily on an empty stomach and has been taking it since he was diagnosed around 1 year.
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Pico's Parent...just wondering what symptoms Pico had that led to the diagnosis? I had never even heard of this until MO and SM.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Feb 19 2005, 08:11 PM
> *Anitoxidants can be good for the liver. Vit E or something like 3V caps can be given. Dr. Center recommended Vit E for my dogs. It is a pretty low dose that she recommended and she feels it is very safe long-term at that dose. Mikey got 25 IU once a day (he's on so many other meds right now, he's not getting the Vit E).
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36435*


[/QUOTE]
What are those for ???? Kodie was not told to be on anything at this time in his life. When do you know its time to put your dog on something like that?


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

Kallie/Catcher's Mom,

Pico didn't really have noticable symptoms but I think we caught it early because we did pre-dental blood work and that's where we found his ALTS were real high, which led to more blood work, then a sonogram, then the radioactive infusion to rule out a liver shunt.

The biopsy to diagnose MVD was not done because everything else had been ruled out and we didn't want to put Pico through anything else.

This is why a yearly physical is a good idea with pets, even in the absence of any symptoms. 

I just looked through my file on Pico for a document that listed the symptoms but I don't have a copy. You could probably google for Microvascular Dysplasia.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@Feb 21 2005, 12:11 PM
> *Kallie/Catcher's Mom,
> 
> Pico didn't really have noticable symptoms but I think we caught it early because we did pre-dental blood work and that's where we found his ALTS were real high, which led to more blood work, then a sonogram, then the radioactive infusion to rule out a liver shunt.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I was just curious.... KNOCK ON WOOD neither of mine have any problems so far..Catcher had blood work for neutering and Kallie had bloodword recently during her yearly physical. Since this seems to be common with Malts Ijust thought I'd try to be informed... Glad Pico is doing well, though....


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Some dogs have no symptoms at all. A dog can also have a normal ALT (regular bloodwork) and have MVD.


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

Now that's interesting. If the ALTS were normal with MVD wouldn't BUN or some other factor be abnormal? Surely SOMETHING in the liver panel would be abnormal. Right?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@Feb 21 2005, 07:06 PM
> *Now that's interesting.  If the ALTS were normal with MVD wouldn't BUN or some other factor be abnormal?  Surely SOMETHING in the liver panel would be abnormal. Right?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36762*


[/QUOTE]

Bile acids would be. 

Jonathan has MVD. His ALT and entire chemistry panel are completely normal. he has NO symptoms. His bile acids are usually around 40. We found his MVD by coincidence because he had a seizure (his seizures are unrelated to the liver). 

Mikey's ALT is normal. His chemistry panel has always been normal other than in November when he had a secondary liver insult (his ALT went up and now is normal again). He has major problems, partly from his liver. His bile acids are around 60.

How's that for scarey. I never would have though to check Mikey's bile acids if it wasn't for Jonathan having a seizure.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM+Feb 21 2005, 07:11 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bile acids would be. 

Jonathan has MVD. His ALT and entire chemistry panel are completely normal. he has NO symptoms. His bile acids are usually around 40. We found his MVD by coincidence because he had a seizure (his seizures are unrelated to the liver). 

Mikey's ALT is normal. His chemistry panel has always been normal other than in November when he had a secondary liver insult (his ALT went up and now is normal again). He has major problems, partly from his liver. His bile acids are around 60.

How's that for scarey. I never would have though to check Mikey's bile acids if it wasn't for Jonathan having a seizure.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36764
[/B][/QUOTE]

So, Jackie, what do we do..... ? How is MVD diagnosed; i.e., what tests are given to diagnose it and should everyone have the test? It sounds like if it is caught early and a proper diet is given, that it can be nicely controlled.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Hypothetically there are dogs like Jonathan who are carriers but not symptomatic. We still need a lot more research with this. Basically, you do not want to breed a dog with MVD so breeding dogs should be tested (and, of course, it is a good idea to test pups since it is suspected to be a polygenic trait and possibly connecting with liver shunt). 
However, in Maltese, sometimes the bile acids are mildly elevated and there is really nothing wrong with the dog. Ammonia tolerance testing can be done to help differentiate. No vet is going to cut a dog and biopsy its liver if it has normal bloodwork (chem panel, ammonia tolerance) other than mildly elevated bile acids and has no symptoms. The testing is not totally accurate, but it is a good starting point to stop breeding the problem. The vast majority of dogs with shunts have bile acids over 100. I am talking about numbers between 25-40 (maybe 50) where there may be something or may be nothing. 
Basically, if your dog is totally normal and routine chemistry panels are normal, then treatment and biopsy would not be done anyways. I hope that makes you feel better.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I am so glad that Pico's test results are so good! And that his liver values are down from last year! 

I have heard wonderful things about Denosyl. I started Lady on Milk Thistle years ago, before I heard about Denosyl, and it has worked so well for her I don't want to stop it at this point (her liver values are still normal after nearly 5 years on a pretty high dose of Phenobarbital). I also give her the 3V caps that Jackie mentioned. My vet has me give them to her to boost her immune system because of all her health issues, but it's interesting that it supports her liver, too.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Feb 21 2005, 10:42 PM
> *Hypothetically there are dogs like Jonathan who are carriers but not symptomatic. We still need a lot more research with this. Basically, you do not want to breed a dog with MVD so breeding dogs should be tested (and, of course, it is a good idea to test pups since it is suspected to be a polygenic trait and possibly connecting with liver shunt).
> However, in Maltese, sometimes the bile acids are mildly elevated and there is really nothing wrong with the dog. Ammonia tolerance testing can be done to help differentiate. No vet is going to cut a dog and biopsy its liver if it has normal bloodwork (chem panel, ammonia tolerance) other than mildly elevated bile acids and has no symptoms. The testing is not totally accurate, but it is a good starting point to stop breeding the problem. The vast majority of dogs with shunts have bile acids over 100. I am talking about numbers between 25-40 (maybe 50) where there may be something or may be nothing.
> Basically, if your dog is totally normal and routine chemistry panels are normal, then treatment and biopsy would not be done anyways. I hope that makes you feel better.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36816*


[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Jackie.... it is a very interesting topic. ... so far .. so good, with mine... *KNOCK ON WOOD*.... neither one has had any health issues whatsoever!


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

Lady's Mom, how much does Lady weigh and what dose of the 3V's do you give her? I'll call my vet about this but I would like to know a little beforehand.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@Feb 22 2005, 10:09 AM
> *Lady's Mom, how much does Lady weigh and what dose of the 3V's do you give her?  I'll call my vet about this but I would like to know a little beforehand.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36898*


[/QUOTE]

3 V Caps come in a small dog size (less than 30 pounds) and I give 9 pound Lady a full capsule everyday.

I get them from Revival. It's much cheaper than getting them from my vet.

http://revivalanimal.com/product.asp?pn=23-260


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

Thank you, Lady's Mom. It sounds as though those supplements are a good idea.


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