# Why are grains bad in dog kibble?



## Bishop (Mar 10, 2012)

After trying a number of dog foods, Molly only likes to eat Merrick Puppy plate, but it has grains, just curious as to what is the problem with grains ?


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## Bishop (Mar 10, 2012)

Also, how long should a dog be on Puppy food? When should I transition her to adult dog food?


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

The optimum diet for a dog should closely resemble their natural diet. A diet balanced heavily toward grain promotes insulin production and the production of inflammatory chemicals. Over-production of insulin makes it hard for the body to maintain its correct weight, and can lead to diabetes and other problems including allergies. In the wild, the diet of a dog would consists mainly of meat. As pets, dogs may eat foods that contain some vegetables. But grains definitely have never been, are not now nor will they ever be a part of a dog's natural diet. 

P.S. Cats are obligate carnivores and shouldn’t eat anything but meat. No fruits, no vegetables and absolutely never, ever any grains!


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

In my opinion all grains are not equal. Dog often have allergies to corn and wheat, which are also not particularly nutritious. Most grain free food contain potatoes or sweet potatoes or other sources of simple carbohydrates. Other grain free foods have too high a protein content for Malts. The food I give my kids has BROWN rice and barley, two more nutritious grains. I don't want to feed them potatoes or sweet potatoes.

There are lots of foods for "all stages" you would be safe to transition Molly to one of those at anytime.

I just read Pammy's post...the high sugar content is why I stay away from potatoes.


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## Bishop (Mar 10, 2012)

What about Blue? This is what they recommended at Petsmart....is this a grain free food or good grains?


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

The only problem I have with Blue Buffalo...which does have grains...is that it is manufactured in the same facility as human vitamins and there has been one recall due to cross contamination. It's just my own comfort level here but I feel the risk is fairly high for that to happen again so that's why I don't promote Blue Buffalo. And from what I hear, the majority of dogs won't eat the 'life bits'. But they are dong a bang up job on helping to educate the general public on how to read ingredient panels and well...just to LOOK at ingredients! lol

I'm starting to have a bit of a different mindset on grains. I feel that dogs with allergies, digestive issues, joint problems, itchy skin should always be on grain free to help keep the inflammation down in the body. But I was being told about some studies of dogs in other countries where they don't have all the processed foods filled with chemicals, bleached out, etc... And these dogs are having good grains in their diets and doing very well. Dogs truly adapt to their environment and culture. So I'm not so 100% on the grain free side of things. But again, the good grains. Grains even a diabetic could have. Complex Carbs. But I've not seen or read the study myself so I won't say anymore then what I've said so far because I don't want to misrepresent or mislead anyone.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I don't consider grains to be "bad".

Lady was diabetic and complex carbs were a must for her. It helped stabilize her blood glucose throughout the day. She got barley, brown rice and oatmeal.

Bailey's breeder recommends a diet of no more than 26% protein and those foods contain grain. We've had quite a few Maltese here who had lots of digestive problems on the high protein dog foods.

As Crystal pointed out, dogs today have adapted to their environment. They are very different from their ancestors. My ancestors hunted and foraged for their food, too, but that doesn't mean I can't eat pasta!


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## Bishop (Mar 10, 2012)

Thanks for all the tips on grains! I just bought today Blue Buffalo grain free it is called their Freedom line of foods.....we shall see how it goes! Thanks again!


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Bishop said:


> Thanks for all the tips on grains! I just bought today Blue Buffalo grain free it is called their Freedom line of foods.....we shall see how it goes! Thanks again!


Just be aware that since this is a 'Life Stages' food (I'm not fond of - really like 'All Life Stages' foods), you should really be looking into other brands that have within a couple percents of protein and fat to rotate between to help prevent an allergy developing by feeding the same thing over and over again. And also to help ensure a truly complete and balanced diet. Our bodies need and get different things out of chicken as they do lamb, as they do fish, beef, etc... Same goes for our dogs. Also, say you have a bag of food that is AAFCO compliant but may be on the high or low end of a certain mineral. Let's use calcium as an example. Say the food you choose is within the AAFCO compliant standards but the calcium is on the high end. Over the course of time what will that do to your dogs phospherous level? It might bring it down towards the lower end of the normal range or even below. So that's another reason I believe so much in rotating protein sources.

Just an FYI...not thrilled with the 'natural' chicken flavor ingredient or caramel.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

I would buy a food with protein no higher than 26%, with or without grains. Non grain is always higher. Fromm (with grain) are low enough protein and you can switch proteins each bag. the Fromm non grains I saw were are 27-30%. May be harder to locate it though. I found most of the high end foods are too high proteins for Maltese IMO. I read the non grain foods took off because of all the allergy dogs. There is big bucks in dog food. And only 10 % of dogs are really allergic to grains. But it's so hard to tell what causes the allergy, I just buy non grains. 
Good luck


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Actually the domestic dog's closest wild relative is wild dogs in places such as Africa and Asia. These dogs tend to have a higher carbohydrate component to their diet because they eat human left-overs (things like rice and other carbs). In addition when they eat "road kill", they eat ALL of it, not just the meat, so it is not an adequate comparison to say they eat more "meat" in their diet. They eat a diet balanced over time. Domestic dogs have evolved over tens or thousands of years to eat similarly to our diets, depending on human hand outs to build our relationship. The "high protein" diet fad is just that - a fad that humans created to sell dog food...no different than the fad to feed corn and call it a novel, healthy diet.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Grains are not in and of themselves bad for dogs. Some dogs have allergies to certain dogs. Some dogs do poorly on low-quality, high-grain foods. 

I don't feed puppy food. I start my pups or all ages on an adult food. Toy breeds do not "need" puppy food like some large breed dogs.


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

Bishop said:


> What about Blue? This is what they recommended at Petsmart....is this a grain free food or good grains?


There will always be somebody who has something to say about food.....
The Best food is the food that Your Pup does Best on!! :aktion033:

Riley doesn't do well on grains.... so I keep him on Acana, grain free formulas.
I recently tried the Duck & Pear which has oats and he pooped 4 times in a day instead of his normal two.
A lot of time, grains aren't as easily digestible....even if they are the higher quality grains.


If there is a food I really want to try, I always do a google search for any consumer affairs complaints, first.


87 Complaints and Reviews about Blue Buffalo Pet Foods


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## StevieB (Feb 2, 2012)

I don't know all that much about grains/no grains/super foods, etc. But I feed Steve Blue Buffalo and he eats it up and has nice regular solid poops, and has had no allergies or vomiting from it. So give it a try!


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

jmm said:


> Actually the domestic dog's closest wild relative is wild dogs in places such as Africa and Asia. These dogs tend to have a higher carbohydrate component to their diet because they eat human left-overs (things like rice and other carbs). In addition when they eat "road kill", they eat ALL of it, not just the meat, so it is not an adequate comparison to say they eat more "meat" in their diet. They eat a diet balanced over time. Domestic dogs have evolved over tens or thousands of years to eat similarly to our diets, depending on human hand outs to build our relationship. The "high protein" diet fad is just that - a fad that humans created to sell dog food...no different than the fad to feed corn and call it a novel, healthy diet.


:goodpost::amen:


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## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

jmm said:


> Actually the domestic dog's closest wild relative is wild dogs in places such as Africa and Asia. These dogs tend to have a higher carbohydrate component to their diet because they eat human left-overs (things like rice and other carbs). In addition when they eat "road kill", they eat ALL of it, not just the meat, so it is not an adequate comparison to say they eat more "meat" in their diet. They eat a diet balanced over time. Domestic dogs have evolved over tens or thousands of years to eat similarly to our diets, depending on human hand outs to build our relationship. The "high protein" diet fad is just that - a fad that humans created to sell dog food...no different than the fad to feed corn and call it a novel, healthy diet.


Finnally someone with an outlook on the whole dogs vs grains vs wolves vs carnivore debate that actually makes sense to me! I so agree with this post 110%!:thumbsup:


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## ckanen2n (Jan 2, 2012)

At the breeder's recomendation, I feed Giovanni Purina Pro-Plan Chicken and Brown Rice Shredded Blend. I have also fed the same in Lamb and Rice (to see if that helped with tear stains.) He is very healthy with nice firm stools. I am wondering what you think because the protein is 28% and the fat is 18%. Both are puppy variety.

Also, one of our cats has a digestive problem and was placed on Science Diet Venison & Green Pea and did well. Because our Gio tends to eat the cat food, we tried the same food in cat version and the cat did fine. I sent my son to the store for more, but he went to W-Mart and came home with Purina One Chicken & rice. The cat's diarrhea came back after 2 days on the new food, so we put him back on Pro Plan and his stool slowly firmed up. So, all of my animals are doing fine on Purina Pro Plan, but I wonder what you think of the 28% protein. Also, there are some grains - Ch & R has wheat and corn products, L & R has only corn products. It's hard to say if the Lamb & Rice has helped with tearing, because Gio still gets to the cat food. I guess I am lucky with Giovanni.

As for Blue, I do give Giovanni Blue Bits chicken treats or Blue Mini Bars (blueberry & yogurt) for training and snacks. I have not experienced a problem with these, but after reading the link to Blue comments, I will not purchase any other products than these and will be alert for any problems. 

Still wondering about the protein in Pro Plan....???


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

ckanen2n said:


> At the breeder's recomendation, I feed Giovanni Purina Pro-Plan Chicken and Brown Rice Shredded Blend. I have also fed the same in Lamb and Rice (to see if that helped with tear stains.) He is very healthy with nice firm stools. I am wondering what you think because the protein is 28% and the fat is 18%. Both are puppy variety.
> 
> Also, one of our cats has a digestive problem and was placed on Science Diet Venison & Green Pea and did well. Because our Gio tends to eat the cat food, we tried the same food in cat version and the cat did fine. I sent my son to the store for more, but he went to W-Mart and came home with Purina One Chicken & rice. The cat's diarrhea came back after 2 days on the new food, so we put him back on Pro Plan and his stool slowly firmed up. So, all of my animals are doing fine on Purina Pro Plan, but I wonder what you think of the 28% protein. Also, there are some grains - Ch & R has wheat and corn products, L & R has only corn products. It's hard to say if the Lamb & Rice has helped with tearing, because Gio still gets to the cat food. I guess I am lucky with Giovanni.
> 
> ...


Dogfoodadvisor gives Purina Pro Plan a below average rating:

Purina Pro Plan Dry Dog Food | Review and Rating


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I love that a website made by someone with no research knowledge on dog nutrition (who gets paid by PetFlow) is a "reputable" source for selecting foods.


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## ckanen2n (Jan 2, 2012)

Ladysmom said:


> Dogfoodadvisor gives Purina Pro Plan a below average rating:
> 
> Purina Pro Plan Dry Dog Food | Review and Rating


I read the comments from pet owners who fee Pro Plan on the link above and found positive comments about the food. My breeder (Petite Maltese) is an AMA Breeder of Merit with 30 years experience, so I'm more likely to follow her lead that the article written by someone from Petflow. Thanks JMM!


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## Bishop (Mar 10, 2012)

I've decided to return the grain free Blue Buffalo, After reading those horrible reviews on BB, it made me sick to my stomach! Both Molly and my other dog Lola do well on Merrick puppy plate, so I will be sticking with it for a while. Thanks for all the wonderful advice, love SM!!!!!


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## tobysmom (Jan 1, 2011)

jmm said:


> I love that a website made by someone with no research knowledge on dog nutrition (who gets paid by PetFlow) is a "reputable" source for selecting foods.


They're good for *some* information, and I find their ratings are really a measure of how much meat and how few grains, so i take their advice with a LOT of grains of salt, but they do have a point about dogs being fed a steady diet of corn and corn gluten being not in line at all with a natural diet for a canine, and that's exactly what pro plan and a lot of other foods are made up of. But then again, dogs are scavangers, they could probably live on whatever is in a person's garbage and at least pro plan has the appropriate vitamins and minerals added to their dog food.


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## tobysmom (Jan 1, 2011)

tobysmom said:


> They're good for *some* information, and I find their ratings are really a measure of how much meat and how few grains, so i take their advice with a LOT of grains of salt, but they do have a point about dogs being fed a steady diet of corn and corn gluten being not in line at all with a natural diet for a canine, and that's exactly what pro plan and a lot of other foods are made up of. But then again, dogs are scavangers, they could probably live on whatever is in a person's garbage and at least pro plan has the appropriate vitamins and minerals added to their dog food.



Oops, sorry, the pro plan is not corn and corn gluten, it's rice and wheat and animal by products.


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