# American and European dog owners



## Bruno (Sep 26, 2006)

I have been reading this forum for a while now and find it quite interesting and helpful.
However, I cant help to notice that american maltese owners treat their pets very differently than europeans.
I am myself from Sweden, but I have been living around europe.

One thing I find very strange is the popularity of crating dogs in america.
Here, we use crates only to transport our dogs in cars or trains. Crating is used normally for small pets such as hampster and mice, definitely not intelligent animals such as dogs! I have never seen a dog being crate-trained and even I believe most of the breeders are against it. My dog has since the beginning went outside to pee and learned it at the age of 5 months. My dog hates being locked up in a crate (natural instict while being locked in a small cage?) and I only put him in his crate if its necessary ie. travelling on train. What do you think, isnt it a problem for the dog, if he/she cant go outside to pee and smell the other dogs/socialice get exercise/fresh air etc? Isnt this against the natural insticts of the dog? 

Another thing is keeping dogs in pens. I believe that is also typical to american dog owners as I have never seen here in europe. Most of the people keep their dogs roaming free inside the house or sometimes in the garden. Of course when the dogs are puppies, they make mess sometimes and have some accidents inside the house, but Id rather a messy house and a happy dog, rather than a flegmatic sad dog in a clean house!

Anyways, these are just my views, please dont get offended


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

I think you are misinformed about crate training and pens--they have no inteference with a dog's health or social life. Your post does come across somewhat condesending as if "we americans" have no idea whatsoever on how to raise and train a dog. You have no firsthand experience to judge if our dogs are "flegmatic and sad" and I do find that comment offensive. Anyway, you have your thoughts, we have ours and if we can all mutually respect one another's differences, that is what makes the world go 'round--as "we Americans" like to say!


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## NONNY (May 21, 2006)

Hmmmm....I'm in America and don't own a crate and our malts have never been in a crate. Our puppies were in a small play yard in the kitchen until they were about 14 weeks old, but only when we weren't home and for their safety. I chose to pad train my doggies, mostly because of my convenience. It's not that they never go outside. They love walks and their favorite word is "go". They are happy dogs. I think that you will find a vast amount of differences in American maltese owners.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Crating dogs here is popular because it uses their natural "den instinct" as a training tool. Most dogs naturally will not soil their sleeping area. For wild dogs to do so would call attention to where they live and attract predators.

By crating a puppy, the puppy thinks of it as his "den", his safe place. He will try to keep it clean. It's instinctive. 

As a puppy gets older, he learns to think of his crate as his "safe place" like a dog in the wild would, a place to nap, a place to go to be safe. Most of us don't even close the crate once the puppy is older and trained so he can go in and out at will.

I'm wondering if you think we crate our dogs for long periods of time? I agree with you that crating a dog for hours at a time is cruel.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

Using a crate to train a dog is far different than having it as a place where the dog spends most of its life. Used properly, a crate can be used for training in a matter of a few days. Of course this depends on the age of the dog and how much time the owner takes with the pup. 
Perhaps you have heard that there are breeders who keep their dogs in crates or cages for the majority of their life. While this is common in what we call puppymills, there are some recognized breeders who have dogs confined to crates as much as 20 out of 24 hours in a day. I think you will find that the majority of us on this site are also against a situation such as this. 
If you really want to know how pet lovers treat their dogs, just hang around Spoiled Maltese, and you will see that ours are loved and pampered members of our family.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Crates are not just to help with house training. They are for a puppy's safety. I've had labs and border collies besides my Malts. Leaving a border collie puppy loose in the house is asking for major disaster and possible danger for the dog. I've seen puppies come into the clinic with nasty burns in their mouths from chewing power cords when nobody was watching (and required feeding tubes in some cases). I can't count the number of times we've had to surgically remove objects from puppies' stomachs because they were left unsupervised and got something. If I can't watch my dog, they are kept in a safe place. My dogs all HAPPILY get in their kennels. My puppies are crated overnight, the border collies are crated at night well into adult hood in most cases (they're trouble! LOL), and the dogs are all crated off and on during the day. With just the Malts in the house now, Soda is crated for part of the day at the vet clinic and runs loose in the clinic part of the day. He's quite the happy camper and jumps from your arms into his kennel. 

Crates, when used appropriately, are not cruel or harmful to the dog. They help keep dogs safe and aid in house training. 

I have a number of friends in Europe and they do not crate. It doesn't mesh well with their culture. They also have a different schedule and lifestyle than I do. Instead of judging them, I've found that listening to what they do and why they do it helps me understand that, while different, neither of us are wrong. Ethnocentrism won't get you very far...


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Being originally from France, I know what you mean. I didn't know about crating before I came here to the States. And like you I thought it was cruel. But if you study the concept, it makes sense. You cannot compare a crate to what you use to take a dog on a plane or train. For once, crates that you have at home are bigger. And if you are home to supervise them, the door is open. Outside dogs in Europe have dog houses in their yard, don't they ? well you can compare the crate to a dog house but it is inside. As for doing their business, I never thought I would train a dog to go on pee pads. Well let me tell you, as you get older you don't want to get up at 5 in the morning if you don't have to absolutely. I started out training Alex to go outside like I did with all of the dogs I had. Then I read about those pee pads and thought I might give them a try especially that I have a laundry room where they can be all the time. Instead of spending months for the dog to be housebroken, he was housebroken in 4 days. This is so convenient, I don't have to pay any attention if he has to go or not. He goes when ever he feels like it. In Europe they haven't caught up to it.... YET. On another note, we had a female dachshund and for years she came down with false pregancies. Each year the vet in France treated her with medicine to make the milk go away. It was a vet here in the States that told me that the only way to stop this is to have the dog spayed. Since this happened a long time ago, I hope that today the vets in Europe would advise the same thing.


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## anouk (Nov 3, 2006)

First of all let me thank this forum, it helped me a lot with Lizzie.

I crated her the first days and she didn't mind it at all, I used the pp and on the third day she knew where to go, it was amazing!
The housebreaking part was the most dreadful to me since I live in a flat with no garden but at the end it was the easiest.
My friends look at me as if I was a little bit nuts but I couldn't care less, if Lizzie's ok, I'm ok.

Another issue: to spay or not to spay?
My vet, a wonderful person, thinks I should let her have at least 3 heats before spaying her, to let her grow "totally" if you can understand me.

On this subject I find the biggest difference between our cultures: here they do not think spaying is a good idea unless your baby has health problems, at risk of unwanted pregnancies, etc. etc.
I was worried about the health issues (cancers, infections...) but she told me the it is not proved that if you spay she'll have less risks.

I always intended to have her spayed, now I'm really confused.









P.S. I come from Italy


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## NC's Mom (Oct 23, 2004)

Neither of my dogs were crate trained and they do not spend any time at all in crates, unless you count my home, which is really quite small. My entire home is smaller than most American master bedrooms.

As for if it is cruel or not, I think that depends on each individual dog. Neither of my dogs could ever stand it. Both would tolerate it if they were crated for a few hours ONCE. But, it would take them maybe three days tops to start hating the crate and getting stressed out over it. On the other hand, my sister's cocker spaniel LOVES her crate. She is crated whenever no humans are at home because she cannot be trusted not to commit suicide by eating inappropriate things. My sister is an air traffic controller, so she works a weird schedule and really long hours. I always felt so sorry for the dog until I actually visited my sister and saw firsthand how much that dog loved her crate. Even when people were around and she was free to run about the house, she would nine out of ten times choose the crate when she was ready to nap. She would go into the crate when she was feeling stressed out or scared. My sister even knotted a dish towel to the inside of the door so that the dog could pull the door shut when she wanted more privacy. I think it also helped that my sister crate trained her with love and care. 

And again, it's the personality of the dog. Another example is traveling with the dogs. My younger dog, Little C, LOVES to travel and does so quietly and patiently and generally no one has the slightest clue that she's even there. Sir N, on the other hand, loudly and continuously announces his extreme distaste for whatever traveling method does not involve his sleeping in my lap.


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

I have 3 dogs & all have been crate trained. When the boys were little they slept in the crate all night & if i was out the house, now they are never in a crate cause i trust them 100%. Abbie though still sleeps in her crate at night & when i'm out. She likes this as it is her space & the boys cannot pester her.

All my friends & family who have & had dogs through time have all crate trained their dogs. 

What i will say is, i never heard of a dog being trained to potty inside until i joined SM but now i see that it has many benefits & if thats what suits the owner great. We all have the choices on how to raise our dogs.

I live in the UK.


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

'spose I should add my 2 cents worth (or should that be 2 pennies?) from the UK.

I have been owned by dogs for many years and I would never have even considered crating or penning any of them. "Cruel, counter intuitive and all the rest", I thought. But I was very wrong. When I joined this site during my search for a Maltese I read all this "stuff and nonsense" about crates, pens, topknots, doggie clothes (for heaven's sake!) etc. mainly from the US resident members and put it all down to culture differences or even









However, so many experienced dog owners can't be completely wrong - can they? Although I trained my puppy to perform outside, I now use a crate - well two actually, because my other dog feels a bit left out without her own den and I have a very large pen that both go in and out of at will and play or sleep together. The door to the pen is usually open but, if necessary, they are far easier to confine in safety (crates or pen) when I go out or when people like workmen are constantly in and out, leaving doors open all over the place and stomping around with heavy boots on that can easily crush a bone or two (or worse) in a little dog. 

My Maltese is the proud owner of a carry case, a permanently untidy topknot, several bows (I can't believe it but I made them myself) and n..o..w.. a trendy waterproof coat for Christmas







but ssshhhhh it's meant to be a surprise.







He doesn't have a stroller but only because his Mum would be too embarrassed to be seen out with him







The only frustrating thing is that so many of the products you see or read about on this forum are not readily available in the UK.

The greatest difference I've noticed is between the vets (and to an extent, breeders) in the US and the UK. They seem to have very different views on vaccinations, neutering, diet, medication, blood testing and so on. Suffice it to say if I question something my vet has said about dogs in general or Maltese in particular I have learnt never to say I heard differently from owners/vets/breeders living in the US.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

> My entire home is smaller than most American master bedrooms.[/B]


 

Some appartments in Paris are not bigger either.


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## dolcevita (Aug 3, 2005)

It sounds as though you think Americans keep their dogs in a crate all the time, which isn't true. Our dogs go outside too. My dog has never been in a crate. She always has free reign in the house. I live in an apartment, so I don't have a yard for her to roam around in, but I take her out for walks frequently. 

Even people who crate train let their dogs out when they're home. I think you have misunderstood crate training. I'm always interested in learning about cultural differences though, so I hope you'll have more to share with us.


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## kkrize (Feb 4, 2006)

Deja does not have a crate but she does have a pen. It is used only when I need to leave her alone. We started using the pen just after her surgery for luxating patella becuase it kept her confined during her recovery. But heres the thing...she loves her pen and sometimes asks to go in it ever when we are home. I think she feels safe and secure. 

I don't thing one way is necessarily right or wrong. It's a matter of what works for your dog and your family. If the dog is generally happy, well loved, gets plenty of exercise then I think using a crate or pen ocassionally to keep them safe and secure is a good thing.


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## felicity (Jun 19, 2006)

i think like most things in life it is unfair to jump to conclusions unless you are properly educated in the subject you are disputing.

crate training is not for everyone and yes it is cruel if the dog is left in there for a long time because although dogs like their den, they are also natural pack animals.

i don't crate mishkin at all, have never crated any of my pups, i don't see it as necessary at all and have never had any issues from the methods i use, the entire house is Mishkin's 'den' i know he feels safe and he is well behaved so i don't worry about him destroying anything, he just plays with his toys.

i hear it works for a lot of people though and that is their choice, it just isn't for me.

i am also in Australia though and crating really isn't as big over here.



felicity


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## ddsumm (Jan 26, 2006)

Wait until you get a stroller and become a member of the stroller club!!! LOL LOL



Ive never seen a 'pet stroller' before I joined this site.!! And now!! I am or rather Chloe is - the proud owner of a pink stroller.



I am very proud to be out and about with this stroller. And like the saying goes: 'only in America' - I am so tickled pink when people ask me where I got it from.



My answer: I had it shipped to me from America.














for Chloe's 10th birthday earlier this year


















[attachment=16543:attachment]

And by the way I live in Australia!!!!





I had never heard about crating, (until I joined this site) but when I getm by next doggie, I will be getting a 'crate' from America - we dont have that here in Western Australia.



Pee pads? never heard of them - have now









Doggie clothes? never heard of them - have now









crates?......











I could go on and on, but I am so pleased and proud to say that I belong to this wonderful site. The people here are so nice and wonderful. They have wonderful advise on everything. I would be truly lost without all my friends.


















Stick around - you will love it here.



And by the way, my father lives in Poland - and he trained his malt (after I got mine) to use newspaper to go potty. And he learned that from me from here.



Dede and the little sausage from down under


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## ladypup (Oct 22, 2006)

> QUOTE





> My entire home is smaller than most American master bedrooms.[/B]


Some appartments in Paris are not bigger either.
[/B][/QUOTE]

neither in Manhattan...

the difference, the way i see it, is in the awareness of the American dog owners.
i know that now after i have lived here for many years, i often recommend solutions to problems my European friends have with their dogs, and although they always find it strange or 'unnatural' they try it and find it to work like magic! these solutions have saved more than one dog of loosing his home!

i think Americans invest more in understanding the pet's mind, needs, and behavior, instead of just adding it to the house as another person. it is just like good parenting; you will not tell a grown man to go to bed at a certain time, but you will to a child.

by the way, when discussing crating, a lot of times the idea is not necessarily a cage, but a restricted space. it is especially beneficial for toy puppies, who can just 'get lost' in a big house.


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## Carole (Nov 1, 2005)

Both my girls were play-pen trained and never crated (though I find nothing wrong with crate training for those that like that method...it is just a matter of preference). In a very brief few days they got the idea of what their "mommy" wanted them to do and were 100% trained in 2-3 weeks. Each time they used the pee pad in the play pen area they were allowed "free time" outside the pen as a reward. They got the idea in a blink it seemed. They very quickly understood peeing and pooing on a pee pad made their human mom very happy and best yet they were rewarded for using pee pee pad. I found it to work like a charm and good method of potty training the pup for inside pee-pad training.







We also used the play pen to keep the puppy (and home) safe when we had to go out, but now the girls have free roam of the home 24/7. I don't think pee-pad training would be the way to go for a breed any larger than a Maltese, but I love it for my small dogs! They go potty whenever they want to without waiting for me.







Our pee pads are in our bathrooms and so they often go in to go at the same time they see me using my facilities.









My fur-girls were spayed at 6 and 7 months for their future health and well being.

Welcome to the forum!


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

Lorraine, very well worded.








You made me chuckle with "so many experienced dog owners can't be completely wrong - can they?"

enJOY!
Melanie




> 'spose I should add my 2 cents worth (or should that be 2 pennies?) from the UK.
> 
> I have been owned by dogs for many years and I would never have even considered crating or penning any of them. "Cruel, counter intuitive and all the rest", I thought. But I was very wrong. When I joined this site during my search for a Maltese I read all this "stuff and nonsense" about crates, pens, topknots, doggie clothes (for heaven's sake!) etc. mainly from the US resident members and put it all down to culture differences or even
> 
> ...


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## cr2006 (Oct 24, 2006)

american--and I lock mine up in the bathroom with her crate open and foos & pee pee pad in room. I only close the crate when we travel. She automatically sleeps in her crate with the door/gate open though. She likes it. She is only locked in the bathroom when I'm gone. If I'm home she runs free (except at bed/sleep time).


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## Elly B. (Oct 27, 2006)

Nick was also crate trained for outside elimination. If he didn't go outside, he went in the crate for 20 minutes and we tried again. He caught on very fast. The point of the crate is that they will not soil it. I bought him a nice bed for inside the crate and he prefers sleeping in there to anywhere else. He is a ravenous chewer right now and if I left him out at night he would destroy everything unless I locked him in the bathroom. Better to be in his crate next to the bed where he can hear and smell me than in a different room entirely. He runs right in.

Routine is very powerful for any dog. If you make the crate a part of their routine then it is not cruel, they can come to appreciate it as a safe place. I have a lot of guests and two young cousins who often visit, and my rule is 'if he is in his crate you MUST leave him alone'. It's where he can go if he is tired or bothered. It's not like the door is closed every time he is in there.

Personally, I always make sure he has something to DO in there. I fill up his Kong for him to chew/eat/play with, and I always make sure he has a rawhide. Of course, Nick has destroyed a wooden table leg, a phone book, a stainless steel popcorn bowl, a cabinet, countless socks/underwear.... he's a little into chewing right now, did I mention that?







.... and if I didn't leave him entertainment he might manage to destroy even his crate, I won't underestimate him again!!


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## lonestar (Dec 21, 2004)

My Malts have never been crated. But when I had Afghans I used crates.I never even closed the door to them unless we were traveling to or from a show.They liked their crates.It was a safe place for them. They would just go in a lay down.If they got into something they knew they shouldn't have. I can promise you would find them in their crate. I do not believe crating should be used as a way to house a dog.It works for securing them for short periods of time and for giving them their own safe place. I don't think you will find anyone here that keeps their babies locked up in a crate.It's sad to know that some people in the dog world do that but then you find them all over the world not just here.


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## bellasmommy (May 8, 2005)

I don't crate Bella, she has free roam of the house and we go out in the back yard (fenced) every day that weather permits. I do see how crate training is beneficial though for more active dogs and puppies, Bella just doesn't need it. She has a crate just in case, but so far its just collecting dust in the garage.


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

Ty loves his crate, it is his "room". Most of the time his crate is open and he is free to go in and out. He will often go for a snooze in his ded (inside his crate). He is in his crate while I am at work, that is a safety issue. There is much in a normal house that could pose a hazard to a small dog (falling off the couch, chewing things he shouldn't, my 100 lb sheepdog). When it is time to leave for work in the morning I pick him up and snuggle and kiss him, then I put him on the floor and tell him it's time to go to his room. He trots off and settles himself in his bed. 

I don't force him into the crate, he goes willingly. 

Recently, the fact that he is crate trained was a life saver. Ty had knee surgery and had to be confined for a lengthy period to heal. Not only was his stay at the pet hospital less traumatic because he was accustomed to being in a crate but his recovery was easier. 

Your impression of American dog owners is way off base.


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## May468 (Dec 5, 2006)

When we leave. We ask our dogs to go to their House. They both get inside their crates. It's too stop accidents and safety issues. 

I am an at home Mom, so our dogs are never left crated for long hours.

Actually today, I was out visiting my brother. He lives in a town two hours away. At one point, I thought, Oh, I've got to go. Then I realized Moppy was with me.. Haahaa. So, it wasn't important for me to run home.
Our other dog was in my daughters room. He wasn't "crated" But enjoying the freedom of his "Mom" dirty clothes to sleep in.


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## Maltese Adora-Belle (Jan 23, 2005)

> Using a crate to train a dog is far different than having it as a place where the dog spends most of its life. Used properly, a crate can be used for training in a matter of a few days. Of course this depends on the age of the dog and how much time the owner takes with the pup.
> Perhaps you have heard that there are breeders who keep their dogs in crates or cages for the majority of their life. While this is common in what we call puppymills, there are some recognized breeders who have dogs confined to crates as much as 20 out of 24 hours in a day. I think you will find that the majority of us on this site are also against a situation such as this.
> If you really want to know how pet lovers treat their dogs, just hang around Spoiled Maltese, and you will see that ours are loved and pampered members of our family.[/B]


I am at the point where I'm ready to introduce a new Baby Sister into our home and Bella. My husband's opinion is that it would not be fair to Bella. She idolizes me, goes everywhere with me and sxleeps with me. She has such a sweet happy personality. May I please have your input. Would Bella be very jealous and not want a sister? Bella was 2 on Aug 5th. Help please! I'm not rushing into it but am ready to look.Thanks Jackie & Bellla
P.S. The consensus of the entire family is in agreement with John my husband.


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## dogloverx3 (Apr 14, 2006)

Jackie I am sure Bella would LOVE a sibling . Princess Charlotte was a VERY spoiled only child when I adopted her brother ( then another brother and sister ) . Dogs are pack animals , they tend to enjoy the company of other dogs . Princess Charlotte ( who is still spoiled ) adores her brothers Henry and Teddy and her baby sister Arabella . Sarah


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## susanweinman (Dec 4, 2005)

I live in Philly and before lived in NYC upperwest side.

My apartment was smaller than most living rooms. So don't get the idea that you know what 'americans' do!!!

Life varies greatly depending on where you live

My girls love their crate but I don't lock them in. They roam the house freely and go on a potty pad. They don't always go to the right spot when my housework is not kept up when it is kept up they do very well for ther most part.

They go out when the temperature is right and the love it but they don't have to go out.

Hope that helps - my girls aren't what you would call "crate trained" but I know dogs who are and they are perfectly happy dogs!


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## NYC Neighborhood Dogs (Nov 12, 2006)

If crating were cruel, inhumane, punishing, I doubt every dog here--including the visitors--would happily bounce themselves into any one of a half dozen open crate doors for a snooze or just to have some private time snuggling with their very own stuffie. The doors are always opened unless I'm doing something like cleaning and I don't want anyone getting accidentally injured, and, for meals--everyone eats in their respective crates or x-pens.

It can be a very subjective view: some see the crate as a den, others see it as a cage. If the biped sees it as cage, so will the quadrapede.









For training, housebreaking, I make use of both a crate AND an x-pen. The crate door is open inside the x-pen and the puppy is always safe and secure. Starting them out this way has been helpful in not creeating separation anxiety so it is what I always recommend for every new puppy, to learn coping skills for being on their own even when their people are home, in the same room, in another room.

I do wish the USA were more hospitable to dogs going into stores, cafes, etc., and, especially in apartment complexes. As usual, the bad examples, people who let their dogs become nuisances and messy and even dangerous, make it bad for the rest of us.

I think it's wonderful to have a place to come and meet people from around the world and share different perspectives on dog raising!


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

> I have been reading this forum for a while now and find it quite interesting and helpful.
> However, I cant help to notice that american maltese owners treat their pets very differently than europeans.
> I am myself from Sweden, but I have been living around europe.
> 
> ...


 

Im not offended.







I can see where you might get the wrong impression of crating. If you stick around long enough you will see there are no phlegmatic or sad dogs here. Crates are merely used as training tools and very often not needed for more than a few weeks. Sometimes you will find dogs that actually like their crates and go there to get away from the traffic of a home environment and/or to sleep. Afterall, dogs were originally den animals and do like that cozy feeling.


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## wagirl98665 (Jan 5, 2006)

All 3 of my dogs have crates in case of an emergency and I have to leave them alone, but they're mostly used for them to play in, they like to run in and hide from eachother and also for toy storage.


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