# What's wrong with me? Euthanasia moral dilema



## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

I can't believe I feel this way!! This is a long story and it's such a volatile one that I feel I need to tell everything in detail so that it will help in your understanding of why I'm feeling this way. And perhaps then you can tell me I'm not an awful person for feeling this way. Or maybe help me to feel differently.

I've been helping an elderly customer of mine with her 2 year old Maltese who is sick. Toby is from a byb and has been diagnosed with a liver shunt. However there is definitely more going on with him neurologically. We just found the shunt first. His mommy is on a fixed income and has spent way more then the average person on diagnostic testing to still not have a complete diagnosis. At this point she feels she can't keep spending money on tests because his monthly medications are getting kind of high. Toby started to become more aggressive about 9 months ago. She had been taking him to her vet many *many* times due to the amount of times he vomits and his behavioral changes. Come to find out her vet never ran blood work on him...even when he was neutered. He insisted Toby was fine. Finally Toby had a seizure. Then he finally did blood work. She has switched to my vet and I started out taking her to my vet to help her ask questions, understand, moral support, find her way (since it's almost an hour away), etc.... She has gone a few times on her own now too. On our first visit to my vet, he showed very delayed reflexes and when walking he would often cross his back legs. He was also hunching his back that day. He does that sometimes, but not always...the back hunching and crossing his back legs while walking. He has gone to a neurological specialist and still we do not have a definite diagnosis on anything but a small shunt. He seemed to respond well to being put on an antibiotic, diet change and anti-seizure meds but the seizures were never really controlled. She was thrilled we finally went 21 days without a seizure. The past 2 weeks he's been getting more and more aggressive. He attacked the neighbor dog who is his best friend. They've played together since puppies. He also attacked the neighbor but did not draw blood. He's never drawn blood. And he has started to bite at his mommy's legs (not out of excitement, it's aggression) when she comes home, like he's angry she left him. Right now she only leaves him for maybe an hour. She's terrified he will hurt himself if he has a seizure because of the disoriented state he is in for hours and even a day after. And after the seizure he can wail for hours. I don't know how she can stand it. And due to his medication schedule, she can't leave for more then a couple of hours at a time. He used to love car rides but now he barks non stop in such a shrill ear piercing bark it actually hurts. She can't brush or comb him. He's always been a fighter on that but now he has actually tried to bite her. He might do well with another dog or stranger but then just as often he may go off on another dog or stranger. He can never be trusted. She has always had small dogs that she can take with her everywhere she goes. And she can't do this with Toby. It's heartbreaking because she needs a companion and what is now happening is she is getting cut off from her family and friends.

This weekend she called me sobbing. Toby had 4 seizures between Sat night and Sunday morning. She hasn't slept since Thursday because she knew by how he was acting he was going to have one. She told me on the phone she can't take another night like that one and she doesn't feel it fair to Toby to put him through any more nights like that. I had not gone with her to her last several vet visits and told her I had an appt. yesterday (Monday) and to call and see if she could have a consult with my vet right after my appt. I would be able to take her and be there with her for the consult. She asked me to call for her and make the appt and that she felt at this point, she could not afford more testing and her understanding was without further testing, there was nothing more they could do. So she had decided it was best for Toby to let him go. I again felt Monday would be a consult but she said she can't go through anymore nights knowing she had made the decision. So...I took her yesterday knowing we most likely would not be coming home with Toby. I was sick to my stomach. On the way there she told me she couldn't be in there with him when it was time. I felt like I couldn't let Toby's last moments here on earth be with strangers so I decided I would be there with him. He knows me and likes me really well...but I'm not his mommy. I don't know how I managed the drive without throwing up myself. And I'm really worried about how Toby's mommy will be if she doesn't have a little dog in her life. I worry for her physical health and her emotional health. So I contacted a friend of mine who breeds Mi-Ki's. I knew she had a little girl that she loves dearly that she has retired. Due to how bonded this girl is with my friend, and her personality, we both know she will have a very difficult time transitioning to a new home. But my friend and I thought perhaps if this lady would come to her house and visit several times a week for a few weeks, get to know the baby, develop a bond with her, she would do well. And if she doesn't, she can come back home easily. This girl has the sweetest personality and temperament. Loves to be held, and go bye bye. Rides beautifully in a car. Loves to be combed and dressed. She would be the perfect companion for this lady. And my friend was willing to give her to this lady with the understanding she come back to her if it didn't work out, she got sick or passed away. She's very close. So I had my plan in place. After my vet did what I had scheduled for Zoe & Callie (they did great btw) she then took a very long time observing Toby. Yesterday he acted like a normal dog. No signs of aggression or a neurological problem. And come to find out, Toby's mommy didn't truly understand what my vet had said. She wanted to do more blood work before upping dosages, changing meds, etc...but if it were not doing blood work vs. putting Toby down, she would rather try upping his anti-seizure med dosage and changing antibiotics. She felt she could not in good conscience put Toby down when he was acting perfectly normal yesterday. She is also going to try some acupuncture and talked about a new technique with gold rods that are surgically implanted at the spots on the head that she had told us to rub on Toby to help keep him from getting a seizure or help bring him out of it quicker. She is not qualified for that surgery so would refer him to a specialist, and I know his mommy can't afford it...especially if there are no guarantees it works. So now we are going to play with meds, dosages, and regular acupuncture to see if it helps. But Toby is never going to be a happy, normal little guy. He will never be able to be trusted to go out in public. And God help me as much as I didn't want to let Toby go and also felt it wrong to let him go when he was acting perfectly normal...I can't help but think it will be the best thing for both him and his mommy. And there is why I think there must truly be something wrong with me. In the past I would have said as a doggy parent it is your responsibility to do whatever you can to keep them happy & safe and that as long as there is quality of life, you are responsible for them even if they aren't 'perfect'. We aren't guaranteed perfect children and we would never consider euthanizing a child. And here I am thinking this way! I'm really sick to my stomach over this. But I also see what this is doing to his mommy. And I'm so worried about her. This is just such a sickening situation. And this is why I tend to get a bit overly emotional when talking about byb's and puppymills. God forgive me for feeling this way.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh Crystal, I don't think you need to ask God to forgive you for how you feel. If it were up to nature and without human interference Toby would be at peace already. Sometimes, I really believe that people do go to extremes to preserve life. Toby's real spirit will live forever, why should it be confined to a tortured body?


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## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

Crystal - you are not alone and just reading your post I wondered if it would have been best to let this little guy go so that neither he nor his mommy would suffer anymore. You have truly gone above and beyond for this woman and she (and Toby) are lucky to have found such a good friend and source of information in you.


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## revakb2 (Sep 8, 2006)

I can understand your feelings perfectly. Of course, not knowing the women or the dog,it is easy for me to say she should just let the dog go. I think she is prolonging the ineffable ending. Furthermore, she is putting herself at risk physically, financially, and emotionally. It sounds like the pain should end for both the fluff and his mommy. Did the vet give any indication that there could be hope for a quality of life for this pup? I sometimes think vets help us keep our sick pets alive simply because they can. To me the quality of life is even more important than the quantity. Of course it is very easy for me to say, since I'm not involved. I only hope I can make the right decision for my babies when the time comes.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

I agree, I wish the vet could have just followed through with what seems to be an inevitable end. But of course, by saying he didn't feel comfortable putting to sleep a normal acting dog, that just makes the guilt factor that much higher. Sad situation all around  I feel so bad for your friend.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Crystal, this dog clearly has multiple problems. He even sounds a little like a GME/NME dog to me. The problem with all these diseases is that they are extremely expensive to diagnose and treat. And even if you can diagnose, there are no guarantees that you will have a great outcome. I can certainly attest to that. The day we put Lola down, she had had at least 4 or 5 siezures. And, I couldn't be there with her. My husband was there with her. I was far too emotional at that point, and was afraid I would upset her with my tears. If your vet isn't the regular vet for this dog, it will be hard for her to know the full history, and what point they are at. She needs to go to her regular vet and discuss the situation. He/she will have a better grasp on the situation. 

I fully understand that she is at the end of her rope. Having a dog this sick takes a toll on everyone that is hard for others to understand. If I were you, I wouldn't make plans for her next dog until she is through this experience and ready. She will let you know when the time is right. Rushing immediently into another dog may not give her enough time to mourn her loss. It takes time, and no one but her will know that time table.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Well...I can understand why my vet felt that way. In truth, as long as Toby is home alone with his mommy (and not having a seizure) he is perfectly fine and happy. And as far as quality of life, he has more good days then bad right now. But it's how it's affecting his mommy that is what has me so worried. And when do you know how many good days vs bad ones is still 'quality of life'?


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

pammy4501 said:


> Crystal, this dog clearly has multiple problems. He even sounds a little like a GME/NME dog to me. The problem with all these diseases is that they are extremely expensive to diagnose and treat. And even if you can diagnose, there are no guarantees that you will have a great outcome. I can certainly attest to that. The day we put Lola down, she had had at least 4 or 5 siezures. And, I couldn't be there with her. My husband was there with her. I was far too emotional at that point, and was afraid I would upset her with my tears. If your vet isn't the regular vet for this dog, it will be hard for her to know the full history, and what point they are at. She needs to go to her regular vet and discuss the situation. He/she will have a better grasp on the situation.
> 
> I fully understand that she is at the end of her rope. Having a dog this sick takes a toll on everyone that is hard for others to understand. If I were you, I wouldn't make plans for her next dog until she is through this experience and ready. She will let you know when the time is right. Rushing immediently into another dog may not give her enough time to mourn her loss. It takes time, and no one but her will know that time table.


Oh I agree on that each person has their own time table on grief and when they may want, if ever, another dog. But this lady has already told me that she can't bear to come home to an empty home. That she needs another fluff to love and care for right away. She was asking me about rescues. I thought doing it this way, she can kind of call the shots as to the time table as far as how often and how soon she wants to schedule times to visit this little girl. And my friend won't let her go with her until she feels this baby has really bonded with her. So it won't be right away.

She has been seeing my vet right after Toby had his first seizure and her old vet wasn't wanting to do anything. So it was my vet who sent her to the neurological place. Toby's been under her care now for a couple of months. She isn't suspecting GME because I did question her on that. She's not ruling it out but at this point, but did say it could even be epilepsy.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Well...I can understand why my vet felt that way. In truth, as long as Toby is home alone with his mommy (and not having a seizure) he is perfectly fine and happy. And as far as quality of life, he has more good days then bad right now. But it's how it's affecting his mommy that is what has me so worried. And when do you know how many good days vs bad ones is still 'quality of life'?


 I was always worried that I wouldn't recognize when the "quality" had ended. But, in the end, I could tell. Lola told me with her eyes. But if the dog has more good days, and is pretty happy, and it's the owner that is struggling, I would suggest she relinquish him to rescue before euthanizing him. Perhaps someone better suited to dealing with a special needs dog would be better for everyone?


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

pammy4501 said:


> I was always worried that I wouldn't recognize when the "quality" had ended. But, in the end, I could tell. Lola told me with her eyes. But if the dog has more good days, and is pretty happy, and it's the owner that is struggling, I would suggest she relinquish him to rescue before euthanizing him. Perhaps someone better suited to dealing with a special needs dog would be better for everyone?


Because of his aggression, he is not a candidate for rescue. He would be euthanized without question. He would not do well with anyone else. And yes, he is a public danger. And honestly, I don't think it fair to rescues to send them our special needs dogs. Thus the moral dilemma.

And I'm not the one there with him at home to really know what his quality of life is like. I can only go by what his mommy is telling me. And can any of us really know without a clouded judgment when you are in the midst of it? Emotions can make sometimes a very black and white picture full of various shades of greys.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Though don't believe related to the seizures but wondered if a full thyroid panel has been done? If thyroid is off I would think it would increase other health issue (s) . 
I have heard that an off thyroid can, in some cases, manifest an aggressive behavior though don't personlly know it to be the case. just thought I'd throw that out there. 

As to when it's time... in this situation and actually all cases really... only the vet and owner can come to that decision and ultimately it's the owner. I have always had the experience that the pooch 'let me know'.. I never had doubt. If anything my doubts would be if we waited too long.

I do suggest that until the 'when and if".. that the owner get a muzzle for when out in public. Many are against them but I have seen them used and they don't hurt the pooch if fitted properly and often the muzzle in fact will 'calm' them.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Oh dear Crystal, there are no easy or simple answers to the questions you present! I truly believe that only the owner can truly evaluate this situation. We can only pray for wisdom and discretion in advising. Pam has given some studied advice and I respect that from her. It was very, very difficult for us to let our little Bo go---though I have been in that situation before & it became clear as to when the right time was right. He was different---the vet gave him max of 7 months due to aggressive cancer. He was w/us altogether only 1 1/2 yrs. (adoptee). I knew it was terminal but on certain days he hid all of his pain. He bled at night mostly & was vocal in his sleep. I KNOW he was telling us "don't worry, I am fine." I do feel it was ALL for us. He was totally deaf but ever so clever! He did not want to disappoint us or sadden us. He was truly in tune w/my feelings in not wanting to let him go. I have, sadly, had to put down many of our dogs, but never w/such a heavy heart. In the end I had to decide for what was best for Bo---not for me. I would have spent my last penny in no avail to prevent his pain & his eventual demise, but when I realized how very brave he was to couch his pain for me, I had to---HAD to relinquish my desire to keep him alive. And Crystal, I will forever miss him! But it was the right thing to do---for him.
I do not believe death to be a bad thing---although I don't think it was God's idea---I do believe it can be a sweet release from torment & pain. I pray for you as you befriend this dear lady, that you will be God's instrument of encouragement & wisdom to her. God give you strength! Hugs to you.


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## BellaEnzo (Nov 1, 2011)

I'm so sorry for what Toby, his mom, and you are going thru. You must not let yourself feel guilty for your thoughts, you're taking into consideration not only his mom, but him as well. It's a hard decision no matter what, even when we are certain the time has come. As a friend to Toby's mom I think you should just be there for her, a listening ear and a shoulder to cry on can go a long way. Good luck to all three of you, I hope Toby finds peace whether it be here on earth or else where.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Crystal, you are an amazing and sweet girl!:wub: How lucky this elderly lady has been to have you to help her. You have gone above and beyond what most people would do. You have done your best, and so has this old woman. Having a dog with these symptoms can be stressful for anyone. The aggression from the little Malt is disturbing to me. I had a Maltese with liver problems and I can tell you that this is probably a sign of hepatic encephalopathy which is often seen in the last stages. Even though the little Malt will have moments where he feels good, it is affecting his brain. Toxins build up because the liver is not doing it's job. I think he needs to be relieved of his suffering. He is not going to get well. I remember you telling us about this and it has been going on for a long time. It is selfless of you to offer to help this dear woman. I say this as a friend, IMHO, I think you getting her another dog is over-doing it. If she wants another dog, she can go get one herself. You not responsible for this woman's well-being. I'm concerned that you are worrying yourself sick over this and I don't want to see you feeling that way. :grouphug::wub:


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Crystal - this is a lot on your shoulders (gee on top of the stress of moving and having had Jett feeling ill) and I agree with the others here. You've gone over and above what most friends, and really what most families would do to help this woman and Toby. I know the veet talked about good days and normal but all the aggressive behavior and biting and shrill screaming doesn't sound normal to me at all. It sounds like Toby is in distress, miserable and lashing out because that's the only way he can express himself. I am surprised the vet is going further with this. I think it's pretty clear that things won't turn around. I'm sorry for this woman who is in peril on all sides - physically, mentally, fiscally. That Toby is causing her to lose all those around her, who are usually lifelines to older people worries me. I hope that they will all find some help and I know this is a moral dilemma but you shouldn't feel bad about anything you've been feeling. It's all understandable. :grouphug:


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## casa verde maltese (Apr 7, 2007)

hugs.. very frustrating and heart breaking situation.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

*sigh* I probably have done more then I should. I just can't stand seeing someone in need, whether they be human or furry, and not help if I'm able. I just thought this a perfect situation for both this lady and my friend who has retired this little girl. 

And it does need to be this lady's decision on whether it's time to let Toby go or not. And that was what was so hard for me because I feel like she is looking to me for council/advice on that and I can't do that. What if later she regrets letting him go and then she puts it on me that I'm the one that encouraged her to do this? I won't put myself in that position. I have let her know that I understand her situation and can and will support her with whatever decision she makes. I won't think less of her regardless of her decision. Truthfully, she had made her decision and as hard as it was, she had come to grips with it. And then she was talked out of it. And I think she was hoping I would have been the strong one to let the vet know it's time. But it has to be her to do that. I just can't believe that I'm seeing things so differently then I ever have. If it were me in her position, I would be able to handle the situation (I think) and there would be no question that I would do whatever I could so there would never EVER be any doubt in my mind that I made the right decision. But she is not me. What is right for me may not be right for her. I really like black & white. Why can't life be black & white?


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

It is so difficult to be objective when our emotions are wrapped up in the decision Crystal. Even as a friend things may seem "different" and really, they are. As I have grown older my decisions about many things have changed. . . I am not sure if that is positive or negative but it is what it is. I truly hope it is because I have "matured" but maybe we lose some of our optimism as we experience real life, I don't know. 
I can't tell you not to care, or to try---that would be denying who you are---God created you that way and I encourage it, but the decision is her's and it is only your place to support her in whatever she decides. You are right in not making it for her. She must, in the end, stand for what she believes is correct. It is our privilege to stand w/another and we often pay a price in that standing!


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## LamborghiniGirl (Apr 16, 2009)

Wow!! You are such a wonderful person to be involved at all, giving her rides, recommending a new vet, being there at the appointments... you have already gone above and beyond and you should absolutely not feel bad about this. Imagine what it would have been like for this woman and Toby to navigate this journey without you!

Now onto the issue: I don't think Toby should be put down. But at the same time, this woman should not be Toby's mommy anymore. It is hurting her quality of life, and his as well-- he needs to be with a family that is emotionally ready, and financially able to take on his case. It isn't fair that he isn't getting all the possible care/surgeries he needs, that could potentially improve his quality of life, and it also isn't fair this woman doesn't have the type of dog companion she wanted. I know it is easier said then done.. it is hard to think of a quick and easy fix. I am going to keep thinking.

sending you hugs in this difficult time. :grouphug:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

LamborghiniGirl said:


> Wow!!
> Now onto the issue: I don't think Toby should be put down. But at the same time, this woman should not be Toby's mommy anymore. It is hurting her quality of life, and his as well-- he needs to be with a family that is emotionally ready, and financially able to take on his case. It isn't fair that he isn't getting all the possible care/surgeries he needs, that could potentially improve his quality of life, and it also isn't fair this woman doesn't have the type of dog companion she wanted. I know it is easier said then done.. it is hard to think of a quick and easy fix. I am going to keep thinking.
> 
> sending you hugs in this difficult time. :grouphug:


I really beg to differ w/the above recommendation---although I think I understand from where these feelings come. It is, IMHO, not fair to judge the owner based on her financial situation or decision in terms of life quality. I truly feel that only an owner can surmise the ENTIRE situation and make a valid call. It is not w/in the scope of limited conversation to list all of the circumstances I am sure. It sounds like the lady has given an honest effort to decide what is best given her circumstances. I hope that we can all exercise tolerance for her decision, even if one may not agree w/it. It is the intent to do what is best for the beloved pet that counts in the end.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

edelweiss said:


> I really beg to differ w/the above recommendation---although I think I understand from where these feelings come. It is, IMHO, not fair to judge the owner based on her financial situation or decision in terms of life quality. I truly feel that only an owner can surmise the ENTIRE situation and make a valid call. It is not w/in the scope of limited conversation to list all of the circumstances I am sure. It sounds like the lady has given an honest effort to decide what is best given her circumstances. I hope that we can all exercise tolerance for her decision, even if one may not agree w/it. It is the intent to do what is best for the beloved pet that counts in the end.


:wub: Amen!


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## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

Oh Crystal I am so sorry that your heart is heavy right now. Knowing when to let one of God's creatures go is one of the hardest decisions that we as humans are charged with. Our Katie was 15 when we made the choice to let her go. It was only about 6 months after suddenly losing my Dad (who was only 57 years old). Needless to say, I was numb, scared and felt like the worlds lowest human. How could I let my baby girl go? I knew with my brain that it was time to let Katie go (she could no longer get up on her own or keep her balance at all when standing .... and much more), but my heart was seeing that my baby needed me. It was unbelievably hard. Your friend must be beside herself with anguish over all the choices to be made and with limited financial resources. Please let her know that we are praying for her and Toby. I will be lifting up prayers of peace for you too. All you can do is love and support your friend and Toby. God will put it on her heart when it is time to let go. I sadly suspect that it may be sooner than later. Big hugs to you and rest assured we all know that you are a loving and amazing ambassador to His creatures. ♥


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## LamborghiniGirl (Apr 16, 2009)

edelweiss said:


> I really beg to differ w/the above recommendation---although I think I understand from where these feelings come. It is, IMHO, not fair to judge the owner based on her financial situation or decision in terms of life quality. I truly feel that only an owner can surmise the ENTIRE situation and make a valid call. It is not w/in the scope of limited conversation to list all of the circumstances I am sure. It sounds like the lady has given an honest effort to decide what is best given her circumstances. I hope that we can all exercise tolerance for her decision, even if one may not agree w/it. It is the intent to do what is best for the beloved pet that counts in the end.


Very very true-- it is so easy for me, from an outside perspective to make a choice. But being in the midst of it, day in and day out would be totally different. The reason I feel the way I do is because Crystal posted how the vet still would like to do more tests and there are surgeries that might help. The fact there is still hope for him, and it is just financials stopping Toby's condition from being investigated more makes me sad.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I truly do understand your feelings. Some yrs. ago we tried to get a person here in Greece to allow us to send her and her adopted daughter (about 10 yrs old) to the US for a surgery to remove a large tumor from her face--we would arrange the surgery, etc. but the lady was a doctor & realized the risk of nerve injury & refused our help. In the end the mother (adopter) died & the daughter was sent back to Indonesia without the surgery. To this day I am haunted that we could not convince her that this was a good idea. 
I cannot judge that mother---she did what she did for all the right reasons. It was also partially financial on her part---but she also realized the risks involved. This dog owner knows the aggressive side of her dog and has to be legally responsible for choices made that might affect someone else's well-being. It is an uncomfortable decision which I am thankful I don't have to make.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Maidto2Maltese said:


> Though don't believe related to the seizures but wondered if a full thyroid panel has been done? If thyroid is off I would think it would increase other health issue (s) .
> I have heard that an off thyroid can, in some cases, manifest an aggressive behavior though don't personlly know it to be the case. just thought I'd throw that out there.
> 
> As to when it's time... in this situation and actually all cases really... only the vet and owner can come to that decision and ultimately it's the owner. I have always had the experience that the pooch 'let me know'.. I never had doubt. If anything my doubts would be if we waited too long.
> ...


A thyroid test was one of the first tests my vet ran when she transferred to her. Oh how I wish the aggression issues were an easy fix like this. 

~~~~~~

As to whether or not Toby's mommy should not be his mommy, I don't really think that is the true issue here. Given the fact he has a liver shunt, and all the signs pointing to other neurological problems, the truth is he is not meant long for this world. My vet is very open that Toby has multiple issues going on and we just happened to find the shunt first. The best anyone can do, regardless of finances and mental/emotional fortitude is to keep them happy and comfortable for as long as possible. And I think that is what my vet is trying to do. Keep him around longer while still maintaining a good quality of life. I've been doing some thinking about how I first introduced Toby and his mommy to my vet. And his mommy told my vet that Toby is her life and she can't lose him. I had also told her how worried I was about her if and when she lost him. So my vet doesn't know that this lady has truly come to terms with what may be best for Toby and that I have a little one potentially lined up for her. I am concerned about liability issues for her. Say a UPS driver comes to the door and he bites the driver, that could be a major legal issue for her. Being elderly, her reflexes aren't good and she doesn't seem to really 'get it' how quickly Toby can turn on a person or another dog. She continues to bring him here to the store and I am constantly having to give her reminders that she needs to pick Toby up when a customer or dog comes in. Sadly, often as we age our minds also slow down. I'm not saying she's not intelligent. It's just harder for her to think things through quickly. Basic Obedience with clicker training was extremely difficult for her. She had a hard time clicking at the right time and treating at the right time. If we can't get his aggression issues to improve, that will be the answer right there.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Crystal, that's a lot to absorb. I have no idea what I'd do in that situation. Naturally, one wants to do whatever one can, and financial limitations must be so hard to deal with (believe me, I know!). One thing that stood out for me, was that the vet felt that this wasn't the time to let Toby go. Stands out because I say BRAVA to her not euthanizing a dog that potentially could be helped. There have been too many stories of people bringing their beloved (ha) pet to the vet to be put down for ridiculous reasons, such as they're moving and can't take their pet with them. IMO, there have been too many healthy pets put to sleep. Granted, this is a very delicate situation. I truly hope that Toby can have a better quality of life, for as long as that's possible. I feel for his mom.

You consistently go above and beyond, Crystal. I really admire you.


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## LamborghiniGirl (Apr 16, 2009)

:goodpost: 

You really have gone above and beyond-- no matter what happens, it takes an amazing, giving person to take on such a difficult situation and be an emotional support system. The bottom line is there are 3 wonderful people acting on behalf of Toby-- you, his mommy, and the vet. I am confident if Toby is meant to go, he will feel completely loved.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Just thought I would update for anyone who may have the heartache of having to go through this and maybe it will help those facing similar heartbreaking decisions.

Sadly Toby had over 6 seizures between Thursday and Saturday. His mommy had not left him alone for more then 30 minutes for many months but on Sunday had something she had to attend for a grandchild. She was gone for 3 hours and when she returned home, Toby attacked her. She could not get him under control and had to lock herself into a separate room. She could not get hold of me but when I listened to the message, I could hear him in the background on my VM. He did not sound like Toby.  He sounded like a vicious attack dog. She called my friend who is a positive reinforcement trainer, has taken courses in animal behavior at Purdue, taken many seminars and classes from Karen Pryor, and used to be the one to evaluate if dogs to see if they were adoptable at our local county humane society, Jena. Jena went over to help her. His mommy is now afraid of Toby and Toby could have seriously hurt her. She lives alone and if he had happened to hit an artery on her I shudder to think what would have happened. The decision was made to help him go to the bridge, and we went to the vet's office today. After the vet was told what had happened, she also agreed it was time to let him go. In fact, I guess she had felt perhaps it was time to let him go last week too but wanted to make sure Toby's mommy didn't later suffer from the horrible 'what if's'. You know...what if we had tried this? Or perhaps if we had done that? Toby's mommy was surprisingly calm today...very little emotions. She has called me a couple of hours ago and was beginning to feel the effects of what she has gone through. She does not like being alone in her home. If you can forgive her for what she has done, I ask you say a prayer for her. Her name is Helga. She has a pretty amazing survival story herself and how she got here from Germany during the war. I am encouraging her to write a book. And if you have it in your hearts to forgive me for my part in this, I ask you say a prayer for me. This has been one of the worst things I have had to walk through with a friend and it has turned my whole sense of right and wrong in this type of situation totally upside down and inside out.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

There is no place here, Crystal, to cast stones---we know your heart & my heart goes out both to you and Helga! We send you both love and understanding for this very difficult decision that someone had to make. Only love can do what is best for another when it is so, so difficult. May God grant you both peace.
many hugs.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

OF COURSE we can forgive her! I am just so sorry that she has that last memory of Toby, when he clearly was not himself. I will keep her in my thoughts and thank you for being there for her - she is sure lucky she has you.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Crystal -- I agree that there is nothing to be forgiven here. This was a very sad situation with no right or wrong answers. Clearly Toby wasn't well -- physically or mentally. I'm praying for you, for Helga and especially for Toby. I'm praying that you and Helga aren't sad and don't feel guilty as neither of you have a reason to feel guilty, imho. I'm praying that Toby will RIP and is now at The Bridge where he is physically and mentally sound.rayer:rayer:

You're such a sweet person with a big, big heart. Hugs to you.:grouphug::grouphug:


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Awe-Crystal, I am sorry to hear about Helga and Toby. I also agree, there is nothing to forgive. I know it was very difficult. The right thing was done for Toby and Helga needs to go through the grieving process. I remember the day I took my Noah to have him put down. After we got into the car and started driving, he perked up. He was wagging his tail and seemed so happy and energetic. I almost turned the car around. After it was over, I regretted my decision, but as I went through the grieving process, I know I did the right thing. It is always a tough call, no matter what the circumstances. I can tell Helga loved Toby and like I said before, you have gone above and beyond what most folks would do. Sleep well tonight, dear friend.:grouphug::grouphug:


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Crystal tell her it was the right decision to do. Toby was not Toby anymore. I can understand the reaction of your vet, they don't see the dog on a 24 h basis. Early in the year when we took Alex to the vet when he had one of his coughing spells, he coughed there almost to the end of the visit. It was awful to lessen to it and there was nothing more they could do for him. The vet at that time told us it was time to take in consideration also our quality of life. She did not say right out that it is time to let him go. He suddenly stops coughing and it was like nothing happened. I looked at her and told her : "see our dilemma ?". She shook her head and said yes I understand. It's not an easy decision to make but with Toby attacking her she had no other choice. There is only so much you can do to help them.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Crystal, it was time..... :crying: I think you are an incredible caring person. In this case it sounds like it was the only thing to do. :grouphug: thank you for being there for them.


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