# Downside to a grain free diet



## schatzi's mom (May 13, 2007)

I remember reading a thread a couple of weeks ago about some downsides to feeding a high protein diet. Does anyone remember what it was called?
I'm thinking about switching Schatzi to a grain free diet since I'm pretty sure that that is what she is allergic to. I've tried eliminating different proteins from her diet one at a time and nothing seems to make a difference so I'm almost certain that she's allergic to grains.
But before I try either Evo or core, I wanted to make sure that it's absolutely okay for her. I'm pretty sure someone mentioned that it wasn't good for our small babie's liver or something along those lines. I know that there's several of you out there that use it successfully including sweet Brody :wub: (hmm I think this calls for another pic with the world famous hat don't ya think?  )
Did anyone's fluffbutt ever have a bad reaction to a high protein diet?


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

> I remember reading a thread a couple of weeks ago about some downsides to feeding a high protein diet. Does anyone remember what it was called?
> I'm thinking about switching Schatzi to a grain free diet since I'm pretty sure that that is what she is allergic to. I've tried eliminating different proteins from her diet one at a time and nothing seems to make a difference so I'm almost certain that she's allergic to grains.
> But before I try either Evo or core, I wanted to make sure that it's absolutely okay for her. I'm pretty sure someone mentioned that it wasn't good for our small babie's liver or something along those lines. I know that there's several of you out there that use it successfully including sweet Brody :wub: (hmm I think this calls for another pic with the world famous hat don't ya think?  )
> Did anyone's fluffbutt ever have a bad reaction to a high protein diet?[/B]



High protein dog food is a controversial subject and you'll find many opinions both pro and con, and I respect everyone's opinion and advice. Since the big dog food recall there have been more dicussions about higher protein food and many of the opinions are now in favor of it, with caution.

I'm not a nutritionist, but I'm opinionated.  I personally am okay with higher protein food for adult dogs as long as they're not overeating and they get exercise. I decided to mix EVO canned with California Natural or Organix for Nikki because she is only 5 months old and I don't want to overdo the protein. 

Can you do an elimination diet by using EVO or Core as your base food and mixing it with just one grain at a time to see which specific grain Schatzi is allergic to? Rice, oats and barley come to mind as lower allergens. Wheat corn and soy are high allergens. 


Good luck!


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## PreciousPrince (Feb 27, 2006)

The Whole Dog Journal had an article on grain-free foods in their March issue. It listed their approved grain free foods and gave a detailed analysis of them. It did say that some dogs can be allergic to grains, so it is possible. Canine Caviar has foods with pearl millet as the chief grain, and it's supposed to be one of the least allergenic. However the ingredient that follows it is brown rice, so I don't know if that would help you or not. You can go on the WDJ site and buy back articles if it interests you.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

> The Whole Dog Journal had an article on grain-free foods in their March issue. It listed their approved grain free foods and gave a detailed analysis of them. It did say that some dogs can be allergic to grains, so it is possible. Canine Caviar has foods with pearl millet as the chief grain, and it's supposed to be one of the least allergenic. However the ingredient that follows it is brown rice, so I don't know if that would help you or not. You can go on the WDJ site and buy back articles if it interests you.[/B]



Oh, yes, I forgot about millet, which is low allergen too.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

If your dog has any liver or kidney problems, the diet would be contraindicated. 

These diets are high in protein and fat. They can be too rich for some dogs and cause stomach upset. They can also cause weight gain that you did not experience with your prior food. 

I would not consider a no-grain diet hypoallergenic. If you want to try a hypoallergenic diet, you need to pick ONE novel protein and ONE novel carbohydrate. For example, fish and pasta. Your vet can provide you with a hypoallergenic diet or you can start with a total elimination diet (just the 2 ingredients) and, if it works, consult with a nutritionist to get it balanced for long-term use. 

Most dogs have inhalent allergies, not food allergies.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

> If your dog has any liver or kidney problems, the diet would be contraindicated.
> 
> These diets are high in protein and fat. They can be too rich for some dogs and cause stomach upset. They can also cause weight gain that you did not experience with your prior food.
> 
> ...


This is great advice about hypoallergenic food, esp. since some of the grain free foods have more than one type of protein.


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

Cooper, Gracie and Brody all eat Wellness Core. The only difference is, Cooper and Gracie get the reduced fat...to prevent weight gain. And I make sure they get their daily walks. 

That said, Cooper and Gracie are both very healthy dogs....so I have no reason to believe this food is bad for them.

All of my guys are doing amazingly well on it....like I've said before. Tear stains are GONE, yeast is GONE, itchy feet GONE!!! And they're doing great on it. 

Heres a new pic of my boy Brody..

















And your fav...lol.


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

Forgot to add. I suggested this food to my brother and my bil. They both have dogs with severe allergies. Both have cleared up....and both are astounded. The vets couldn't even help them, but this food is a life saver, literally for both dogs.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

> Forgot to add. I suggested this food to my brother and my bil. They both have dogs with severe allergies. Both have cleared up....and both are astounded. The vets couldn't even help them, but this food is a life saver, literally for both dogs.[/B]



This is very good to know, especially the yeast stuff. That's always an annoyance.


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## schatzi's mom (May 13, 2007)

> Cooper, Gracie and Brody all eat Wellness Core. The only difference is, Cooper and Gracie get the reduced fat...to prevent weight gain. And I make sure they get their daily walks.
> 
> That said, Cooper and Gracie are both very healthy dogs....so I have no reason to believe this food is bad for them.
> 
> ...


Awww I love Brody! You need to post pics of him more often. I can hardly wait till I finally get one later this year :chili: :chili: 

Anyway back to the original topic....
I've decided to try the wellness core low fat. I figure I'll give her about 3 weeks to see if it stops the itchy feet. As long as it doesn't do any real damage to her liver, I guess it's worth a try.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> Awww I love Brody! You need to post pics of him more often. I can hardly wait till I finally get one later this year :chili: :chili:
> 
> Anyway back to the original topic....
> I've decided to try the wellness core low fat. I figure I'll give her about 3 weeks to see if it stops the itchy feet. As long as it doesn't do any real damage to her liver, I guess it's worth a try.[/B]


A diet trial is 12 weeks long. It can take up to that long to see a change. 3 weeks is inadequate.


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## schatzi's mom (May 13, 2007)

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Oh oops. 12 weeks then :biggrin: 
Thank you for all your help!


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

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Not for nothing. We saw improvement w/in 2 weeks. My bil saw improvement in 4 days....and it was about a month before my brother saw any change. 12 weeks is probably a good bench mark, but dont be surprised if you see results before that.


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## cloey70 (Jan 6, 2008)

Canidae all stages is also good for allergerans.

canidae ingredients


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Grain-free diets for dogs are usually high in protein--but it doesn't have to be that way. There are lots of companies using potatos now as carbs and lots of veggies and fruits are showing up. The % of other ingredients besides the protein *could* be greater than the protein if desired. That is easy to do by adding more potato, pasta or veggies to a food you like but has too much protein.


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## schatzi's mom (May 13, 2007)

> Canidae all stages is also good for allergerans.
> 
> canidae ingredients[/B]


Both of mine are already on Canidae. kadie is on lamb and rice because she can't tolerate chicken and Schatzi is currently on the low fat. Schatzi has really itchy feet which the canidae hasn't been helping.


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## cloey70 (Jan 6, 2008)

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Like Jackie says, and I believe also, that allergies aren't always from food, but can be airborne. Their pads can get dry, or get itchy from cleaning products used on floors or the little critters that live in our carpet. Just another idea that maybe causing itchy pads.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

I'm still feeding Raw to Lacie and it's really helped her allergies. I like California Variety Organic Chicken. It's grain free but it does have veggies and fruits in it.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Also, bedding can cause allergies or the detergents used to wash the beds.


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

> Also, bedding can cause allergies or the detergents used to wash the beds.[/B]


And the list goes on and on...thats why for me personally, I find it easier to start by switching the food...and take it from there.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I talked to my vet today about high protein, grain free foods so I thought I'd post the info here. She thinks that they are fine for healthy dogs, but her concern wasn't the protein, but the higher fat content. If the dog starts gaining weight, the food might have to be switched or portions cut. She said to rotate different foods, and don't feed "exotic" proteins unless there are proven allergies to typically used proteins. She recommended raw fruit and veggies for snacks/treats instead of biscuits, etc., which would cut down on the amount of fat, carbs and allergens. 


For allergies, I really would like to gently suggest using good air cleaners like Blue Air, and removing scented products from the home, like air fresheners, candles, potpourri, etc. Inhalant allergies are very common in dogs and kids, and the last thing anything thinks about are the scented items in the house. Most of the "natural scents" are anything but natural, have chemical irritants. You can scent the house with pure essential oils, which aren't synthetic and usually don't cause allergic reactions. I hope this helps!


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## ShilohsMom (Jun 25, 2007)

I have gone both routes grain free and healthy grain only. First and foremost its better to try grain free when the dog is a year or over due to the possibility that it may be too rich for some puppies. 

The upside of the grain free is smaller and less poops with less smell plus the dogs really love it.

The downside is since the food is usually so much higher in fat, protein and calories you have to feed a smaller amount due to the increase in calories or your dog will be putting on weight. Dogs don't know about calories and if you have one thats always looking for food less food volume may pose a problem. Another possible downside is if the dog is not super healthy, high protein can exacerbate some health issues.

All in all, for our lifestyle and dogs activity level, I settled down with Canidae All Life Stages and we are all happy with it. I've come to the decision grain free is best for a very active dog which mine are not or a dog who is ok with smaller portions of food- again mine are not....LOL


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## domino_angel (Apr 17, 2008)

> For allergies, I really would like to gently suggest using good air cleaners like Blue Air, and removing scented products from the home, like air fresheners, candles, potpourri, etc. Inhalant allergies are very common in dogs and kids, and the last thing anything thinks about are the scented items in the house. Most of the "natural scents" are anything but natural, have chemical irritants. You can scent the house with pure essential oils, which aren't synthetic and usually don't cause allergic reactions. I hope this helps![/B]


I have terrible, terrible allergies myself. A word on allergies, Essential oils can definitely still irritate allergies. Yes, the key word there is "usually". Also, allergies are cumulative in humans, probably the same for dogs. That means if you can reduce your overall number of irritants, you stand a much better chance of stopping the reaction. This applies to environmental allergies, not sure about dietary.


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