# Hairlip



## Morkie4 (Oct 13, 2006)

Hi, thinking of getting another maltese, found one! Owner says she is six and has a hairlip. Any ideas what this is or pics, web sites, information? HELP!! Please.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

It's a cleft palete, meaning a hole in the roof of the mouth or soft palete that has to be closed surgically. Google cleft palete in dogs.


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## Morkie4 (Oct 13, 2006)

> It's a cleft palete, meaning a hole in the roof of the mouth or soft palete that has to be closed surgically. Google cleft palete in dogs.[/B]


Thank you very much for the suggestion...........a lot out there to read and I read and I read and I read. I appreciate your response to help.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

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Actually, a hairlip is totally different from a cleft. It is where the lip is not closed. I know because my mom was born with this, but has no problem with a cleft. I love the story of how the specialist came in on the train to their small hospital and did her surgery, some eight-five years ago. There are times when both the hairlip and cleft are combined, but it is possible to have one without the other. 
I would think the hairlip would be more of a cosmetic thing. I would ask the previous owner about eating and teeth care for her.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I know of a little yorkie with the hair lip. It's very obvious and exposes mucous membranes to the air. I don't know why the gal who owns her doesn't have it fixed as it is a very simple procedure. Even her vet said so.

Hairlips most certainly can be without cleft palates.


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## Morkie4 (Oct 13, 2006)

> I know of a little yorkie with the hair lip. It's very obvious and exposes mucous membranes to the air. I don't know why the gal who owns her doesn't have it fixed as it is a very simple procedure. Even her vet said so.
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> Hairlips most certainly can be without cleft palates.[/B]


You think it would cost much to have it fixed. I don't even know what the little girl's lip looks like to know how bad or not so bad it is..........I asked for pics but she said she was way too busy with holiday and her job.


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## Jacki (Jul 13, 2006)

If it is only a cleft in the lip, it's more of a cosmetic thing and you should have no problem if/once it is fixed (has the dog had the surgery yet?). My hubby was born with severe cleft lip and palate and underwent about a dozen reconstructive surgeries, but still has a hole in his soft palate and still has a deviated septum. So a cleft palate can have more implications than just a cleft lip. My hubby was fortunate to have a great cosmetic result of his surgery, but his deviated septum still causes some breathing difficulties.









Good luck -- I hope everything works out and this baby will become a beloved part of your family!


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

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She's way too busy to send you pics but she wants to find her a home? I would not take her without knowing how severe the lip is and certainly you deserve pics of her anyway. As for cost, it will depend on the severity of the split. Sometimes it's a simple surgery and wouldn't cost that much.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Did the owner give any indication on the severity or extent of the hairlip? Why is she selling this little girl? Is it possible to go visit and see her?


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## Maltese_NH (Jul 23, 2006)

> Hi, thinking of getting another maltese, found one! Owner says she is six and has a hairlip. Any ideas what this is or pics, web sites, information? HELP!! Please.[/B]


Why is she letting her go? Are you getting her from a breeder?



> You think it would cost much to have it fixed. I don't even know what the little girl's lip looks like to know how bad or not so bad it is..........I asked for pics but she said she was way too busy with holiday and her job.[/B]


I'd be nervous if she wasn't willing to send pictures.


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

<span style="font-family:Comic">I certainly would not take this doggie without seeing her first, how sad the person that has her is "too busy" to send you one photo.

Good luck,
Melanie
</span>


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

Before any trash gets started about this situation like it did on another chat site, let me say that I'm sure that if it were a different time of the year, there would be no problem with pictures, etc. This dog has been listed on this person's website for several months. I've talked with her about the dog, and even mentioned her on chat one Saturday night about six weeks ago. This is the Christmas season, and this breeder is the owner of a store. She has had a number of life changes in the past few months, and she is doing work from can to can't. The holiday season only makes it worse. I'm sure there is no rush to place this girl. She is loved where she is. It is the breeder's hope that she will find a home where she can have a lot of individual attention (as that is what she told me when we talked about her weeks ago). 
Taking pictures for some of us is not as easy as just going in and snapping a few shots. And, given what is going on in this breeder's life, I know that every moment is tied up at this time of year.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

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Of course it is true that there would not *always* be both, however, more often than not they are part of the same deformity. Often times, since the lip is the only part of the deformity you see, the whole thing is referred to as "hairlip". It is an old and more or less derogatory term for the deformity. I wanted Morkie4 to be aware of all the implications and potential problems and look up "cleft palete", the medical term, and not just "hairlip". She can now contact the owner with knowledge of what she could be dealing with in this dog, and be able to ask the needed questions.



I've worked with children with this deformity. Without surgery many can not even nurse, or eat normally. A puppy could have anything from a cosmetic problem--to devastating physical problems.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

Secret is no longer up for adoption. You see, breeders do read these sites too. And, they do have feelings. I got an email from her breeder last night, and it was so sad to know that she had been hurt so by the comments because people didn't know the whole story, but chose to go off on tangents about it. I will say the other site was more vicious in some of the posts (someone suggested she might be a broker and another suggested unethical breeding). She did go on the other site and post a reply. She told me she felt "raped" by the comments. And, all this because people did not know the facts, but chose to go off on assumptions. 
There are cases when taking a picture of a dog or even selling them are not the most important thing on a breeder's plate. Remember, many of us have jobs. We do not make a living selling dogs, but work so we can have dogs. In the case of this breeder, there is a lot more going on than placing a retiree. As I said in another post, this dog has been listed on the site for weeks. I'm sure everyone wants pictures of a pup/dog before they buy it, but if there isn't time for pictures, then either move on or wait until the breeder can get them for you. Just because someone can't get a picture when you want it doesn't mean there is a red flag. It could just mean this person is so overwhelmed by other things in their life that it's not a priority. The price being asked for this dog didn't even cover the spay, so it wasn't like she was trying to make money on her. Oh, and I learned that the hairlip is very minor, not a cause for concern in the dog's life.
I don't care if we are discussing the price of tea in China or the quality of a Maltese, we should not make comments unless they are backed up by actual facts. I've seen it over and over how one person would start a thread (especially about breeders), and from there, everyone jumps on to make comments like a vulture after something dead on the side of the road. 
Please folks, thinks of this next time you want to add a comment to a thread. Breeders do have feelings too, and they do read these sites.


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

> Secret is no longer up for adoption. You see, breeders do read these sites too. And, they do have feelings. I got an email from her breeder last night, and it was so sad to know that she had been hurt so by the comments because people didn't know the whole story, but chose to go off on tangents about it. I will say the other site was more vicious in some of the posts (someone suggested she might be a broker and another suggested unethical breeding). She did go on the other site and post a reply. She told me she felt "raped" by the comments. And, all this because people did not know the facts, but chose to go off on assumptions.
> There are cases when taking a picture of a dog or even selling them are not the most important thing on a breeder's plate. Remember, many of us have jobs. We do not make a living selling dogs, but work so we can have dogs. In the case of this breeder, there is a lot more going on than placing a retiree. As I said in another post, this dog has been listed on the site for weeks. I'm sure everyone wants pictures of a pup/dog before they buy it, but if there isn't time for pictures, then either move on or wait until the breeder can get them for you. Just because someone can't get a picture when you want it doesn't mean there is a red flag. It could just mean this person is so overwhelmed by other things in their life that it's not a priority. The price being asked for this dog didn't even cover the spay, so it wasn't like she was trying to make money on her.
> I don't care if we are discussing the price of tea in China or the quality of a Maltese, we should not make comments unless they are backed up by actual facts. I've seen it over and over how one person would start a thread (especially about breeders), and from there, everyone jumps on to make comments like a vulture after something dead on the side of the road.
> Please folks, thinks of this next time you want to add a comment to a thread. Breeders do have feelings too, and they do read these sites.[/B]


Huh? From what I can read YOU did not give any detailed info so people here were trying to be helpful and offer you information--and you can't offer information without asking questions.

Trying not to be too defensive here, but the people on this website do not pick fights unnecessarily--they are out for your best interest. Too bad you choose not to see it that way. Why are YOU being so defensive? You came asking questions and got legitimate answers. I'm sorry this breeder was being defensive as well. 

I hope the puppy has a good, healthy life.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

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You must have me confused. I did not come here asking questions. The person interested in the dog did. 

I have no reason to be defensive. I am not involved with this dog. Her owner is my friend, and I was simply making a comment that I had received an email from her that she was very hurt by what had been written by people on chat sites who did not know all the facts, but chose to make assumptions. See, I care about people and their feelings. It hurts me that my friend was hurt by this. As I said, most of the negative was from another site, but I was using this to show that breeders feelings should be considered too.

The point I was trying to make is that statements (of any kind) should not be made about people unless they are backed up by actual facts. This is whether we are discussing dogs or anything else. And, that many posts take on a life of their own from these assumptions that end up negative things being posted about breeders that are unnecessary and do hurt them.

So, now you know the facts where I'm concerned. See, even in this post, you didn't know, and you were eager to jump on me based on what you assumed.


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

Well, it is really confusing!! I had all the facts in front of me and all of a sudden you came in defending the original poster and I saw NOTHING in other people's posts that was offensive! It was all straight forward information in my opinion. I wouldn't have gotten involved at all except for the fact that your last comment seemed so off-base and seemed so defensive to me coming out of the blue. Maybe I'm missing something...


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> Well, it is really confusing!! I had all the facts in front of me and all of a sudden you came in defending the original poster and I saw NOTHING in other people's posts that was offensive! It was all straight forward information in my opinion. I wouldn't have gotten involved at all except for the fact that your last comment seemed so off-base and seemed so defensive to me coming out of the blue. Maybe I'm missing something...[/B]



Yes, you are missing a lot. It's like discussing apples and oranges here. 

Nothing I said had anything to do with the original poster or any defense/offense of her. I was talking about the person who owned the dog, who is my friend, and how her feelings were hurt by incorrect information. And, as for her defending herself, when someone calls a well known breeder with an excellent reputation in the Maltese world a broker, and makes other negative comments, then I think she has every right to make a statement. It wasn't in defense, as she had no reason to defend. It was just in response to ignorance and to express her feelings that she felt she had been burned at the stake by the negative, ignorant responses.

So, since you don't seem to know the story, let me just make one simple statement that is generic. Not related to this topic or anything else. 

PLEASE DON'T MAKE POSTS BASED ON ASSUMPTIONS. GET THE FACTS BEFORE YOU REPLY. BREEDERS HAVE FEELINGS, AS WELL AS REPUTATIONS. PLEASE CONSIDER THIS BEFORE GOING OFF ON A TANGENT.


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

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ok, gotcha. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Maltese_NH (Jul 23, 2006)

> Secret is no longer up for adoption. You see, breeders do read these sites too. And, they do have feelings. I got an email from her breeder last night, and it was so sad to know that she had been hurt so by the comments because people didn't know the whole story, but chose to go off on tangents about it. I will say the other site was more vicious in some of the posts (someone suggested she might be a broker and another suggested unethical breeding). She did go on the other site and post a reply. She told me she felt "raped" by the comments. And, all this because people did not know the facts, but chose to go off on assumptions.
> There are cases when taking a picture of a dog or even selling them are not the most important thing on a breeder's plate. Remember, many of us have jobs. We do not make a living selling dogs, but work so we can have dogs. In the case of this breeder, there is a lot more going on than placing a retiree. As I said in another post, this dog has been listed on the site for weeks. I'm sure everyone wants pictures of a pup/dog before they buy it, but if there isn't time for pictures, then either move on or wait until the breeder can get them for you. Just because someone can't get a picture when you want it doesn't mean there is a red flag. It could just mean this person is so overwhelmed by other things in their life that it's not a priority. The price being asked for this dog didn't even cover the spay, so it wasn't like she was trying to make money on her. Oh, and I learned that the hairlip is very minor, not a cause for concern in the dog's life.
> I don't care if we are discussing the price of tea in China or the quality of a Maltese, we should not make comments unless they are backed up by actual facts. I've seen it over and over how one person would start a thread (especially about breeders), and from there, everyone jumps on to make comments like a vulture after something dead on the side of the road.
> Please folks, thinks of this next time you want to add a comment to a thread. Breeders do have feelings too, and they do read these sites.[/B]



Faye, maybe the OTHER site had posts that were negative...but read back over the replies on this site....no one was being mean or hurtful. In fact we didn't even know it was a breeder until you mentioned it. 

I do have a question about your post.... "In the case of this breeder, there is a lot more going on than placing a retiree." .....what is this dog retiring from??? I don't believe she could have been in the ring with a hairlip....so was she being used as a breeding dog?


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Camfan, I don't mean to imply you don't understand these things. I just hope you won't take some posts personal, sometimes even when they sound personal they are best ignored. Some people start sounding defensive immediately, maybe from some insecurity--who knows?! (having no paticular posters in mind)







Maybe some people just are overly frightened they will look bad or get fingers pointed.....?







It seems like some days there is an edge here for everybody







! Stage of the moon??







Who knows! I sense that sometimes and just fold my tent for a day or two.



On a forum where you are actually pretty anonymous anyway, why really care? Probably because it always hurts to be made to look bad amongst friends, especially when you know the truth, but it just doesn't always pay to defend yourself when words flying around the world that no one can prove, right or wrong, is all we have to defend ourselves. I learned this the hard way.











The important thing we've learned here is the dog in question has only a minor problem and can live normally. That's great and I hope the breeder finds a wonderful home for her.


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

"In fact we didn't even know it was a breeder until you mentioned it. "

That's what i initially responded to as well--it seemed like it was coming from left field. Very confusing. I understand now. <<Pam backs out of the conversation gracefully w/ brownbag, lol







>>


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> Camfan, I don't mean to imply you don't understand these things. I just hope you won't take some posts personal, sometimes even when they sound personal they are best ignored. Some people start sounding defensive immediately, maybe from some insecurity--who knows?! (having no paticular posters in mind)
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Yes, there are days when we all are on edge. I'm in one of those states today. In fact, I have been since I saw this whole thing start. It came to a head when I received the email from my friend last night. I came home from work sick, and this just made it worse. It was such a sad email.
None of use like for anyone we care about to be sad or hurt, whether this be friend or family. It tore at my heart when I read this. Sure, I took it personally because it was someone I cared about. True, there was not as much negative here as on another site, but my purpose today was to just try to state that we should all consider what we are saying when we do write these posts, to point out that breeders do read these posts, and to show that breeders have feelings too. 

As for the dog being retired, she is a retired breeding dog. The problem was not genetic, and she did whelp pups who had no problems.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)




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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

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I'm confused, too. Morkie just said "owner" in her original post here .... not even that it was a breeder. At first I thought she was talking about someone she might have met at the vet's office or knew from work, etc. No breeder's name was mentioned here on SM or even that it was a breeder ... it was a general discussion. 

I went to some other sites to find the posts that HappyB was referring and... Yes! On another site I felt really bad for this breeder and for the way she was being referred to. Whoa!!


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I think conclusion jumping is easy since there is so much scamming going on these days. The original post said she didn't have time for pics and yet she was advertising the dog to be adopted? Am I correct? See, if I were too busy or too much going on I would take the dog off the adoption list until I could get my ducks in a row. Having said this, I am not slamming the breeder (whoever she is) but it's only fair to ask why by the interested party.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

This is ridiculous!! Nobody slammed her, there were questions being asked and people wondering why about the picture thing, thats all>


Give me a break already!

ANDREA~


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Give me a break already!

ANDREA~
[/QUOTE] 



What cha want broken, Andrea?


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Faye I wonder if you would have had the same reaction if you would not know the breeder ?


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> Faye I wonder if you would have had the same reaction if you would not know the breeder ?[/B]



I can assure you that I would not have gone on a public forum and called someone a broker, said that she was up to something trying to get the person interested in another dog for sale, she should not have so many dogs if she had to work, and questioned the ethics of her breeding, as happened to her on the other site. If I had any questions, I would have gone back to the source with them. Or, I would have gone to other reputable breeders for answers, not to people who had no experience with breeding or genetics.
And before I made a post about another breeder, it would be only after I personally had researched her to know what was true and what wasn't. 
As for the picture issue, if the person didn't have time, then if it is something I really wanted, I would wait for a picture, if the person had a good reason for not getting it at the time. If I felt there was a problem, I would move on. This was a six year old retired dog who was being placed for less than the cost of the spay. It wasn't something that had to be done today or tomorrow. If I were in that big of a hurry, then I would just say "thank you" and move on. I wouldn't have become paranoid about not receiving a picture because I'm the world's worst myself with taking pictures of my dogs, and there have been times when I have told people I didn't have time to do them because of my own work. At the time, I knew that they would probably go elsewhere, but I make my living from my work as a psychologist, and not by selling dogs. In this case, this person is recovering from surgery, not physically able to do what she is doing; yet, running her store alone six days a week. Taking a picture of a dog she is virtually giving away probably just wasn't on her priority list.
So, to answer your question, no, I would not have had the same reaction at all. And, to add to this, I paid this same breeder thousands of dollars for a dog (who is now one of my champions) that I never saw a picture of. I trusted another breeder/handler (who is his co-owner) to make the right decisions on it. I just wrote the check, and I haven't been sorry about it for a minute.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Faye, I can certainly understand why you are upset, but everything you say upset you was said on another forum, not Spoiled Maltese.

As several members have pointed out, nothing offensive was said here. The word "breeder" was never even used by the original poster, so no assumptions, either good or bad, were made about your friend.

I hate that this controversy has been brought to SM when truthfully, most of us don't have any idea what you are referring to.

Wouldn't it be better if you addressed the issue on the forum in question?


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> Faye, I can certainly understand why you are upset, but everything you say upset you was said on another forum, not Spoiled Maltese.
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> As several members have pointed out, nothing offensive was said here. The word "breeder" was never even used by the original poster, so no assumptions, either good or bad, were made about your friend.
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it was addressed on that other forum. i feel she wanted to defuse the thread here before it ended up like the other one. i personally read it, and i can tell you i was disgusted by some of the assumptions that were freely thrown around.... 
this was faye's first post, i see nothing wrong with it:


> Before any trash gets started about this situation like it did on another chat site, let me say that I'm sure that if it were a different time of the year, there would be no problem with pictures, etc. This dog has been listed on this person's website for several months. I've talked with her about the dog, and even mentioned her on chat one Saturday night about six weeks ago. This is the Christmas season, and this breeder is the owner of a store. She has had a number of life changes in the past few months, and she is doing work from can to can't. The holiday season only makes it worse. I'm sure there is no rush to place this girl. She is loved where she is. It is the breeder's hope that she will find a home where she can have a lot of individual attention (as that is what she told me when we talked about her weeks ago).
> Taking pictures for some of us is not as easy as just going in and snapping a few shots. And, given what is going on in this breeder's life, I know that every moment is tied up at this time of year.[/B]


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

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Marj,
The point I was trying to make when I started this today was that it would be good if people didn't make assumptions, but make statements based on facts. We all know there have been threads here on breeders where assumptions were made without facts. And, they turned out to be wrong. I was just trying to use this as an example to show how hurtful it can be for a breeder. As I said in the original post, breeders do read these sites, and they do have feelings. I thought it would be a good example to, hopefully, keep it from happening here again.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Point taken. I think your original post stated that quite clearly. I think your three subsequent posts, however, only threatened to ignite the controversy over here on SM.

If you noticed, the thread had basically "died" over here without ever becoming heated or controversial. No one had posted to it for two days. It was only revived it a few days later with your post about making assumptions.

Remember, most of us over here are in the dark about the whole situation. That is probably the best scenario for the breeder who was allegedly maligned. I'm sure your friend wouldn't want a rehash of the whole thing over here.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

It is sad that things go out of hand just because of miscommunication between the people involved.


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