# New Maltese - need advice



## xholliesterx (Aug 5, 2007)

<span style="font-family:Tahoma">Hello, I am new to this forum. I am getting an 8 week old female maltese :wub: in about two weeks and just want to find out anything I need to know to properly care for her. I have a two year old female yorkie already. 

I especially want to know what type of tear stain remover is the best, what type of vitamins are good, good shampoos that aren't too expensive but are good to used and anything other problems I might come across that will need to be addressed with my new dog. 

Thanks so much!</span>


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

The most important thing you need to know right now is that Maltese puppies need to stay with their mothers until they are twelve weeks old. Eight weeks is way to young for this breeder to be selling her puppies!

http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/12weekrule.htm


----------



## xholliesterx (Aug 5, 2007)

> The most important thing you need to know right now is that Maltese puppies need to stay with their mothers until they are twelve weeks old. Eight weeks is way to young for this breeder to be selling her puppies!
> 
> http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/12weekrule.htm[/B]



oh no, really??? Why is this?


----------



## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Click on this link and read it.....it will explain why.

http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/12weekrule.htm


----------



## xholliesterx (Aug 5, 2007)

wow, so the email from the breeder says she is already eating Royal Canin Small Breed Dry Puppy food and that she is up to date
on shots and almost completed her deworming program. She isn't even 8 weeks yet, is this horribly bad? I am worried now. She comes with a health garantee. 

?!?!?!


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

What type of health guarantee? I lifetime one on genetic problems? It should be.
8 weeks is way too young to be taken away from mom and siblings. She is also not
likely to have enough immunizations. Puppies are still eating soft food at 6-8 wks and
older. Also, puppies this young are so tiny and can stress so easily causing hypoglycemia, which can be deadly.
You might want to ask the breeder if she will keep her another four weeks. If not, 
I would run! Find another breeder.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Being weaned, dewormed, etc. really doesn't have that much to do with when a Maltese puppy is ready to be speerated from its mother. If you read the article, Maltese puppies learn very important lessons from their mother and siblings that effect their lifelong behavior in those early weeks.

More importantly, the American Maltese Association requires that member/breeders not sell puppies until they are _at least _12 weeks old. If this breeder is violating the AMA's Code of Ethics, it raises huge red flags. Does she even know what the Maltese standard is? Is she breeding to it? If you choose a Maltese, you don't want to end up with a 14 pound curly coated dog. Does she know what genetic problems occur in Maltese? What health and genetic screening does she do before she breeds her dogs? Liver shunts and luxating patellas, for instance, are inherited and treatment can run into the thousands of dollars. 

What sort of health guarentee does this breeder offer? Have you read, read, read everything posted in our Breeders section about how to find a responsible Maltese breeder? Unfortunately, Maltese have become very popular and there are tons of ruthless breeders advertising on the internet. Unless you've gotten a referal from someone you know or a forum such as this (no referrals provided by the breeder herself, of course), you can really get duped.

If you feel comfortable sharing this breeder's name or website, I'm sure we could help you evaluate what type of breeder you are dealing with.


----------



## xholliesterx (Aug 5, 2007)

> What type of health guarantee? I lifetime one on genetic problems? It should be.
> 8 weeks is way too young to be taken away from mom and siblings. She is also not
> likely to have enough immunizations. Puppies are still eating soft food at 6-8 wks and
> older. Also, puppies this young are so tiny and can stress so easily causing hypoglycemia, which can be deadly.
> ...




Well she did say that she is so small it wouldnt hurt to keep her a while longer than 8 weeks, so that is good i suppose. She also says she mixes water in with the food to soften it. Is it bad that she has the dog weaned and eating solid food already? She was born on 6-19. Also, should I be concerned that she is only ACA registered and not AKA registered? I have heard that there are plenty of dogs AKA registered and still not to up to breed standards but is ACA even worse? 

She has a 1 year health garantee against anything genetic. I have never heard of a lifetime garantee and didn't know they did that. I'm not sure if the breeder has a website, I found her on a site where many breeders post their dogs. I will find out though.

-signed, really worried.


----------



## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

[attachment=25324:spoiled_..._welcome.jpg]

I hope everything will be fine with your new little one.


----------



## xholliesterx (Aug 5, 2007)

> What type of health guarantee? I lifetime one on genetic problems? It should be.
> 8 weeks is way too young to be taken away from mom and siblings. She is also not
> likely to have enough immunizations. Puppies are still eating soft food at 6-8 wks and
> older. Also, puppies this young are so tiny and can stress so easily causing hypoglycemia, which can be deadly.
> ...



I was looking on some of the breeders sites recommended by this site and i saw many offered only a 1 year health garantee.


----------



## ShilohsMom (Jun 25, 2007)

I hope all goes well with your new maltese and welcome to SM.  It sounds like she is not going to be 2 months old until August 19th if she was born June 19th.


----------



## xholliesterx (Aug 5, 2007)

Okay so I asked my breeder a bunch of questions to see if she was legit. I asked her which vaccines my dog has had:

She recieved Bronchi-Shield III by Fort Dodge when she was 4 weeks old and 
Duramune Max 5, also by Fort Dodge, when she was 6 weeks old. She has been 
dewormed regularly with Pyran 50 and this week she will be dewormed with 
Panacure.
"Her parents have had absolutely no health problems. Yes, the health 
guarantee is against genetic defects. I have never had to honor my 
guarantee because nothing has ever been wrong with them. However, if a 
genetic problem should arise, as stated on the guarantee, I will replace her 
or give your money back."

She is also sending me her medical history, pedigree and other papers this wednesday, much before I recieve the dog. I can just tell her to keep the dog a few more weeks. 

Does this all seem alright?


----------



## xholliesterx (Aug 5, 2007)

> I hope all goes well with your new maltese and welcome to SM.  It sounds like she is not going to be 2 months old until August 19th if she was born June 19th.[/B]



Well she will be 28 days old on the 15th which is technically 4 weeks.
Is shiloh your dogs name? Are you an Angelina Jolie fan? lol, i am.


----------



## ShilohsMom (Jun 25, 2007)

> Okay so I asked my breeder a bunch of questions to see if she was legit. I asked her which vaccines my dog has had:
> 
> She recieved Bronchi-Shield III by Fort Dodge when she was 4 weeks old and
> Duramune Max 5, also by Fort Dodge, when she was 6 weeks old. She has been
> ...


If you have allready paid for this little girl I wish you all the best and hope all is well and her health is excellent and the transition to her new home is smooth. However, I have to agree with what was said above. A responsible maltese breeder would not let her pups go at 8 weeks no matter what the size of the pups is. As the others have said leaving the mother and siblings too early can create behavioral and developmental problems. N one is trying to frighten you but if its a done deal see if she is willing to keep her longer.


----------



## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

> wow, so the email from the breeder says she is already eating Royal Canin Small Breed Dry Puppy food and that she is up to date
> on shots and almost completed her deworming program. She isn't even 8 weeks yet, is this horribly bad? I am worried now. She comes with a health garantee.
> 
> ?!?!?![/B]


 :smilie_daumenpos: WELCOME TO SM :smilie_daumenpos: 

Does this breeder know about the new veterianarian protocol for vaccinations? The first vaccine should not be given until the puppy is totally weaned from mom's milk. Mom's immune system will interfere with any shots given before the puppy is weaned. So any immunity that would have occurred with the shot will not occur. Be sure the breeder send home with you an immunization sheet with all the vaccines given and a history of the worming on it.
Tina


----------



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> Okay so I asked my breeder a bunch of questions to see if she was legit. I asked her which vaccines my dog has had:
> 
> She recieved Bronchi-Shield III by Fort Dodge when she was 4 weeks old and
> Duramune Max 5, also by Fort Dodge, when she was 6 weeks old. She has been
> ...


At about 8 or 9 weeks is when the first shots for distemper, parvo, etc. are given. Is she going to be shipped to you? Ideally she would have her first shot or even two before traveling. 

Saying she will replace her or give you your money back is not likely to happen. Chances are that you will bond with this puppy very quickly and will not utilize the option of returning her. Most people who encounter problems that the breeder won't cover just suck it up and pay any expenses themselves.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=416548
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The ACA is the American Canine Association, one of the "alternative" registries that was formed when the American Kennel Club (AKC) toughened their registration requirments to include DNA testing. Puppy mills and backyard breeders have turned to these other registries because they have been suspended by the AKC or can't qualify, but want to still be able to say their puppies have papers.

Unfortunately, papers from these registries are just that, only paper. 

The American Canine Association issues "papers" for dogs bred by several breeders who are actually posted on Pet-Abuse.com, a national registry listing people convicted of abusing animals or violating the Animal Welfare Act. "Papers" increase the asking price of a dog by $300-$500 and this registry helps many breeders barred from the AKC sell their puppies to consumers who mistakenly think that papers, any papers, mean that they are buying a puppy free of disease and without behavioral or genetic problems. Unfortunately, this is not often the case. 

http://www.mainlinerescue.com/advocacy/pup...ot_a_puppy_mill

Please also read these articles about the alternative registries:

http://www.theyreallkeepers.com/breeder.html

http://www.nppmwatch.com/AKC.html

What state is your puppy coming from? Have you checked to make sure your breeder isn't on the USDA "puppymill" list?

http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/ListA2006.pdf

What site did you find your breeder? Again, that can be a giveaway. Puppyfind.com is notorious for unscrupulous breeders. We have pictures of SM members' Maltese stolen and posted there all the time.

I know we are bombarding you with a lot of information, but you are smart enough to be asking the right questions now.


----------



## xholliesterx (Aug 5, 2007)

The dog is weaned and I looked up the information about the vaccines she said she gave the dog and it says:

Bronchi-Shield III
"Kennel Cough" Dog (canine) Vaccine 25 Doses
Composed of an avirulent live culture of Bordetella bronchiseptica bacteria and modified live canine parainfluenza virus. Now with adenovirus type 2(and hepatitis).

Duramune Max 5 Dog (canine) 

Distemper, adenovirus type 2 (and hepatitis), parainfluenza, and parvovirus. Vaccination should start at or about 6 weeks. Puppies should then be revaccinated every 2-4 weeks until 12 weeks old. Give IM or SQ. Annual revaccination recommended.

For subcutaneous vaccination of healthy dogs as an aid in the prevention of disease caused by canine distemper, infectious canine hepatitis, canine adenovirus type 2, canine parainfluenza and canine parvovirus. 


So i think she is doing it right based on what the company who makes the products says. 

I have given a deposit and i know she is willing to keep the dog longer. so im hoping thats okay.


----------



## xholliesterx (Aug 5, 2007)

OMG!!!!!!!! Theyre on the puppymill list! I can not even believe this!

Jean and Jack Broleman from Missouri. This is so sad! how could people do this?!?!?!


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> OMG!!!!!!!! Theyre on the puppymill list! I can not even believe this!
> 
> Jean and Jack Broleman from Missouri. This is so sad! how could people do this?!?!?![/B]


They do it to make money.  

Missouri is the number #1 puppymill state in the country.


----------



## ShilohsMom (Jun 25, 2007)

> OMG!!!!!!!! Theyre on the puppymill list! I can not even believe this!
> 
> Jean and Jack Broleman from Missouri. This is so sad! how could people do this?!?!?![/B]


I am sorry to hear that and glad that you found this site for some guidance :grouphug: If you can get out of it there are many here who can recommend other reputable breeders.


----------



## xholliesterx (Aug 5, 2007)

someone please recommend a good breeder.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Why don't you take a deep breath and see if you can get your deposit back first. It's really not that hard to do. I've pm'd back and forth with many people who were able to get it back once they started to make things difficult for the breeder. Bottomline is these people want to make an easy sale, pocket the money and move on to the next sale. They don't want to get a puppy returned because it didn't pass a vet exam or deal with an unhappy person months later. It's too much trouble when they can simply sell the puppy to some other person who isn't as wise as you are.

Is the ad still running? If it advertises things like "home raised", "socialized", really any number of things that aren't true of a puppy mill puppy, it is false and misleading advertising. Call the breeder on that and I can practically guarentee you'll get your money back. They sure don't want a lawsuit. If you post the ad, we can look it at.

As I say, most of these breeders cave and refund the money if you are tough enough. Even if they don't, the loss of a few hundred dollar deposit can be small compared to the vet bills you may face over the lifetime of a puppy mill dog. And, of course, you can't put a price on the heartbreak they can bring if they have genetic illnesses later on.

Start with trying to get out of this deal, then we will be happy to help you find a good reputable breeder. You are lucky to live in Florida. There are some wonderful breeders there and many of our members have puppies from them. You can go to the American Maltese Association website and see all the breeders they recommend in your state.

http://www.americanmaltese.org/ama_breeder_list.htm

:grouphug:


----------



## xholliesterx (Aug 5, 2007)

well thankfully i didnt get to send the deposit yet i was going to send it early tomorrow. i am just heart broken for that dog, i hope they are not abusing it. Here is their ad. please let me know of any redflags so i know what to look for next time...

Breed: Maltese 
Sex: Female 
Birthdate: 06-19-2007 (6 weeks) 
Champion bloodlines: No 
Champion sired: No 

Price: $775 USD (shipping included!) Buy with confidence 
Shipping area: United States 
What's included: Registered/registerable (AKC, NKC, etc.), Current vaccinations, Veterinarian examination, Health certificate, Health guarantee, Pedigree, Travel crate 
Additional information: Will ship to major airports in US when
temperatures are below 85 degrees. Danni is ACA
registered and current on shots and dewormers. 
She will be crate trained and partially
housetrained. She loves children and other pets. 
Her father weighs 5# and mother weighs
5-1/2#.Included in Danni's price is: her shipping
cost and flight insurance, shipping
crate, registration papers and pedigree, vet check
and health certificate, health record and AVID
Microchip. She is sweet and playful; you'll love
her. First payment (or deposit) received is who
gets my puppy. Call 573 859-7968 or email. 
Thanks. Jean 


Seller Write a review Contact seller 


Jean Broleman 
Location: Belle, MO, United States 
Telephone: 573 859-7968 
Puppies given LOTS of attention




Thank you everyone for your help!!


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I think the red flags were raised by what wasn't in her ad...

The fact she sells her puppies at eight weeks, that she registers them with one of the "alternative" registries, the fact she is on the USDA list, etc.

As you search for a good breeder, you will see the difference between the two. This is an excellent guide to finding a responsible breeder from Bhe Jei Maltese:

http://www.bhejei.com/ethical.htm

I am so glad you hadn't sent the deposit! :aktion033: 

Try not to worry about the puppy. There is a really good chance that the puppy you saw in the picture wasn't even the one you would have had shipped to you. As I said in an earlier post, these breeders use stolen pictures or the same pictures over and over again. We've even had people get a puppy that was the the wrong sex!


----------



## xholliesterx (Aug 5, 2007)

so what exactly does it mean when they are on this puppymill list http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/ListA2006.pdf because I just found out another person i was talking to is on this list.

jeez, you cant trust anyone. :shocked:


----------



## Cathy (Mar 19, 2006)

Thank goodness you didn't send your deposit for the puppy mill dog! Now you can start looking for the right puppy.  

You'll have to spend a little more though to get a nice Maltese. If you're interested in a boy It's Magic has a cute one on the website. Tina, the breeder is a member of this group. You can check him out at http://www.itsmagicmaltese.com. 
Her prices are more reasonable than most show breeders.

Cathy A


----------



## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

> Try not to worry about the puppy. There is a really good chance that the puppy you saw in the picture wasn't even the one you would have had shipped to you. As I said in an earlier post, these breeders use stolen pictures or the same pictures over and over again. We've even had people get a puppy that was the the wrong sex![/B]


I was looking at a site that I also found - by coming here - was on the Puppy Mill list. I have kept checking that site to see if the puppy "Natalie" and her 2 brothers were ever put up on the site for sale and they were not. They would have been available at the beginning of last month, and still no sign of them, just other ones instead. 

I would absolutely go to the AMA site to find a reputable breeder. That and here is where I began my search after finding out the person I was looking at was a puppymill and found a fantastic breeder! I wouldn't trade Jax for the world and am *SO* glad I came here and I did research before I helped those people continue to make money. You can trust people, just start with being referred to them by either people who have adopted a puppy from them, or from a reputable site, ie. AKC or AMA.

Good luck and I'm sure you will find a lot of help on here and I am sorry you are going through this, too many people do and have!


----------



## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

> I have given a deposit and i know she is willing to keep the dog longer. so im hoping thats okay.[/B]


Wait a minute...first you say you've given a deposit and then your next post you say you hadn't given a deposit yet and were going to mail it tomorrow. Something is suspicious here. Am I missing something??


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> so what exactly does it mean when they are on this puppymill list http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/ListA2006.pdf because I just found out another person i was talking to is on this list.
> 
> jeez, you cant trust anyone. :shocked:[/B]



Large commercial breeding operations, what we call "puppy mills", are regulated by the USDA under the Animal Welfare Act. The AWA sets out minimum standards for care and treatment of animals housed by wholesale breeders, facilities that house research animals, and circus animals. It is a notoriously weak act that is under enforced due to lack of inspectors. You can read much more about the USDA and the AWA here:

http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/USDA.html

The reason you have found several puppy mill breeders in your search is because you are doing a cold search on the internet. You need to only contact breeders that have been referred by the American Maltese Association who may in turn refer to you smaller breeders not on the AMA list who may have puppies. A forum like this is also a great place to get referrals. Finding a breeder is much like hiring an important employee like a babysitter. You must screen them, check references and professional affiliations, etc. Buying a living creature who will hopefully be a member of your family for many years from a complete stranger is extremely risky.

There is tons of information about how to be an informed Maltese buyer in our Breeders section. I would advise you to read, read, read before restarting your search. You will also find recommendations for breeders (and those to stay away from) there. You will also find a lot of information about why to avoid buying from a "backyard" or hobby breeder like the ones you see advertising in your local newspaper.

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showforum=9


----------



## xholliesterx (Aug 5, 2007)

Here is the email I sent the woman, the one she sent me, and then the one I sent back. 

Well let me start off by saying how upset I am. Today I decided to join a
maltese forum where I could ask questions, and thank god I did. I started
off by saying that I was getting a new 8 week old maltese and they
immeditally said no one who knew what they were doing would send a maltese
that young. I also asked about it being ACA instead of AKA registered and
they told me that the ACA has registered people who are known animal
abusers. Someone then gave me a link to the USDA puppy mill list and lo
and behond, there was the name, Jack and Jean Broleman.
How could you do this to poor defenseless and sweet little animals? All to
make a quick buck? I am sure you will still find a way to sell this dog
and continue selling, which makes me sick. I can only hope Danni gets to a
good owner, doesn't have any major health problems, and can escape your
puppy mill.
This just goes to show that people will lie and cheat just to make money
and you can never be too sure of a person no matter how nice they make
things sound. I am lucky that I decided to research the day before I sent
my check or I could have gotten a defective dog with many problems. Rest
assure that I will be reporting you and not sending my deposit. It's a
shame, I felt like I loved her already.

Her to me::
Hello Hollie,
First of all, I was surprised to see that you did not capitolize "God". 
That tells me something about you.
Second, you are either terribly misinformed or you scammed me from the 
beginning. By stating you were buying Danni and asking me to hold her, and 
telling me you were sending the deposit money, you made a contract. I am 
certainly not going to hold you to it. Just stating the facts.

Yes, 8 weeks is young to ship a Maltese but it can be safely done. Besides, 
with the hot temperatures, I didn't really think she would be shipping at 8 
weeks.
Thirdly, just because you read something in print, especially at a forum 
where people have their own agenda, that doesn't make it fact.
As far as the USDA link, YES, I am proud to be listed as a QUALIFIED 
breeder. USDA requires EVERYONE with four or more breeding females to be 
USDA inspected. THAT doesn't make us puppy mills. I am a small breeder and 
take excellent care of my animals. They are family to me and get more love 
and attention than most children do.

Last of all, I am a God loving, Christian and would be happy to give you 
references; my pastor, my vet and people who have bought my puppies. I just 
wish I knew if you scammed me from the beginning, getting me to hold the 
puppy. By the way, I told 3 people that Danni was sold because I trusted 
you. Guess I learned a lesson.

Hollie, I hope you find a puppy you can love if you are truely searching for 
one. Either way, I forgive you for sending your misinformed email. Jean


me back to her::
Well I do not know why you feel the need to bring up your religion, like
that means anything to me, but the fact that you feel the need to bring
up that you are a christian tells me something about you. I do not know
if you are properly caring for your puppies or not, for all I know you
are, but the fact is is that you do produce quantity and not necessarily
quality. I am not scamming you because as I've shown you I have a yorkie
that I love like my own child and I already felt I would feel the same
for Danni. The fact of the matter is is that it was dumb of me to
blindly want to buy a dog on the internet without knowing anything about
you. It is too easy for people to lie and Missouri, I now know, is the
largest area of puppy mills. Here is the place where I found your name
so you will know someone didn't just make it up.
http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/ListA2006.pdf
I also found someone else I was thinking of buying from was on the list so
I have learned my lesson to only buy from breeders who have been referred
to me by people who have their dogs and are referred by the AMA or AKA.
The ACA has known animal abusers registered and people have been going to
them ever since the AKA required DNA from the dogs. Maybe your dogs are
perfectly healthy and happy, and I hope they are, because I love these
little dogs and to think of anyone hurting them just breaks my heart. I
know you will still sell Danni and I hope she can go to a home where she
is shown all of the love she deserves. I wish it were mine but I just
can't take the chance.

Also, when i asked if she could be AKA registered she said:
Hi Hollie,
No she cannot be AKC registered. The general public is very misinformed 
about AKC being the best. 20 years ago it was but not any more. To my 
knowledge, there has been no complaints about ACA, while the complaints with 
AKC are too numerous to mention. I can register her litter with NKC 
(National Kennel Club) or one of the other many good registeries. Jean


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

It's pretty common for these breeders to hide behind the Bible and flaunt religion as if that gives them some sort of credibility. Many use Christianity right in their ads. 

You'll never win a war of words with this woman so save your breath. You got a crash course in buying a purebred puppy and asked all the right questions before the deal was sealed. She gave you truthful answers. As long as her kennels are in compliance with the AWA, she can legally operate her business here in the US. Ditto with the "papers". Selling a puppy with ACA papers isn't illegal, it just doesn't mean anything. You were smart enough to notice the registry wasn't AKC. It raised a red flag for you. Many people don't investigate and just assume papers from any registry are the same.

Just be glad that you got out of it before that puppy was shipped to you and focus on finding a puppy from a reputable breeder.


----------



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

I sure wouldn't want to buy a puppy from this person. You and your breeder will likely be in communication several times as your new pup adjusts and whoa, this woman is not someone I would want any sort of relationship with.... ever!

I'm so glad you found out in time to find a reputable breeder.


----------



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> The dog is weaned and I looked up the information about the vaccines she said she gave the dog and it says:
> 
> Bronchi-Shield III
> "Kennel Cough" Dog (canine) Vaccine 25 Doses
> ...


It is not recommended that shots start as early as 6 weeks. That's too young. Here are a couple links to Dr. Jean Dodd's vaccine protocol. She is a respected source and a pioneer in researching the need for vaccines, etc.

http://www.doglogic.com/vaccination.htm

http://www.wellpet.org/vaccines/dodds-schedule.htm


----------



## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

Sad.
Melanie


----------



## PuttiePie (Nov 22, 2006)

Bonnie Palmer of www.bonniesangelsmaltese.com has a male available, pm me if you need more help. I hope and pray you will have a new baby very soon. x0x0x0x0x0x Nanci ( Welcome to SM)!!!


----------



## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

You are so lucky to have found this site before you purchased your puppy. My Ellie has 3 inherited problems. I love her dearly but it is so unfair to her and to us. Good luck finding a pup.

Cathy


----------

