# Rabies vaccination/titering....microchip cost



## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

What does your vet charge you for a microchip, we were so surprised the vet visit, examine and microchip cost us $39.00. We couldn't believe how reasonable our vet is. It cost $45.00 to enroll her for life.
Yesterday I took Maddie to our vets to get a microchip, while I was there I was talking to my vet about Maddie and rabies shots, he explained to me that titering was not a option for rabies vaccination, he said that in the USA it's often not recognized or allowed. He told me that the state I live in requires rabies vaccination, but he said he feels dogs under 5 lbs should not be vaccinated at all, he feels they should be tiered.His advice to me was I should wait three years on Maddie and then have her tiered for her other shots. Before Maddie came, her breeder Lucille had her vet vaccinate her but left the Rabies for us.
Hubby and I decided not to have the rabies vaccination. 
Matilda does has the rabies vaccination, she has never had any issues, we give her the three year shot.
Do you vaccinate your small fluffs?


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## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

I have my boys vaccinated. I believe in vaccines, however, I also believe we over vaccinate. My vet does the 3 year vaccine. Tucker does have reactions to vaccines-sometimes he'll cry a bit, he will shiver and just want to nap. I have talked with our vet and our emergency vet about it and unless he's breaking out in hives or throwing up or something they don't seem concerned.

Doesn't mean I'm not concerned.  I always freak out when it's time.

I have heard some vets say titers are wonderful and others say that they are not accurate. I don't know what the right answer is. I thought, that it was legal to just go with a titer and forgo the rabies vaccine if you have the back up of a vet-and documentation from them but I haven't discussed that with our vet.


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Luck had a mild reaction to the rabies shot. He was quiet for almost a week. He did not get sick but it was a week before he was playing and eating like himself. He is not a small fluff, he is 8 pounds, but only admits to 7 1/2. His groomer requires the rabies vaccine. Cornell also requires proof of vaccination. We go to the nursing home and they require it. When my mother was in the hospital, the lasts few days, I brought Luck to say goodbye and they required a certificate of rabies. My vet said the same thing, titer for everything but rabies, though Luck did have a parvo shot because of going to the groomers. He also had a nasal for kennel cough. He was fine with both.

Vaccines are tough both for people and dogs. Giving little dogs the same vaccines as big dogs make little sense. Vaccines are such personal decisions. Something you need to consider is what happens if you travel with her - for example to Washington - what are the laws there.

You vet is reasonable in price. It also seems like he really listens to you and takes your wishes into consideration - that is important. Sounds like you have a great vet.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Matilda's mommy said:


> What does your vet charge you for a microchip, we were so surprised the vet visit, examine and microchip cost us $39.00. We couldn't believe how reasonable our vet is. It cost $45.00 to enroll her for life.
> Yesterday I took Maddie to our vets to get a microchip, while I was there I was talking to my vet about Maddie and rabies shots, he explained to me that titering was not a option for rabies vaccination, he said that in the USA it's often not recognized or allowed. He told me that the state I live in requires rabies vaccination, but he said he feels dogs under 5 lbs should not be vaccinated at all, he feels they should be tiered.His advice to me was I should wait three years on Maddie and then have her tiered for her other shots. Before Maddie came, her breeder Lucille had her vet vaccinate her but left the Rabies for us.
> Hubby and I decided not to have the rabies vaccination.
> Matilda does has the rabies vaccination, she has never had any issues, we give her the three year shot.
> Do you vaccinate your small fluffs?


In Virginia, titering is not an option for rabies vaccination. And, in order to keep the dog license current ... dogs must have the rabies vaccination every three years ... unless the dog is given an exemption by a veterinarian for the rabies vaccination. 

As you know, Snowball's vet wrote the exemption for Snowball after he had the adverse reaction to his last rabies vaccination.

If it were me, I would ask Lucille what she thinks. As for your vet, he is probably right ... and, I respect him for being upfront with you about it. Tomorrow Krisi will be here and I will ask her what she thinks. (I will PM you then)


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

I hope I don't find Federal Agents at my door tomorrow, but I give my dogs the first and second rabies shot. I don't feel that I need to obey an injurious law, so, of course, I can't register them either. Veterinary students need to have a rabies shot....ONE, not one every three years. When I was a kid, I got polio and small pox vaccines....ONE time. This idea of giving rabies vaccines to our dogs, repeatedly through their lives, even though the odds of them contracting rabies is less than our odds of winning a hundred million dollar lottery, is nothing less than extortion....squeeze the cost of a rabies shot out of all dog owners, by making it mandatory by law. I will not conform to a law that is so obviously in place just to increase the profits of pharmaceutical companies. I won't risk my babies' lives just because it is the law....I am an outlaw.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

It is very important to realize that a wavier or a titer does not cover your dog IF they snap at someone & break the skin. Your county & state would treat the pet as though they were not vaccinated or had coverage and that would vary from place to place. 
We order a special shot for Kitzel that has NO adjuvants and it has been safe for him (he only has had it once plus a TF1 in the US once). Lisi has anaphylactic reactions and will not receive any more shots----so technically she is not covered. I think it is more likely that Kitzel would bite someone than Lisi, but one can never be too sure.
You may remember that Beatriz had a kid accuse her dog of biting & the dog had not even bitten, but Beatriz had to prove the dog was covered!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Sylie said:


> I hope I don't find Federal Agents at my door tomorrow, but I give my dogs the first and second rabies shot. I don't feel that I need to obey an injurious law, so, of course, I can't register them either. Veterinary students need to have a rabies shot....ONE, not one every three years. When I was a kid, I got polio and small pox vaccines....ONE time. This idea of giving rabies vaccines to our dogs, repeatedly through their lives, even though the odds of them contracting rabies is less than our odds of winning a hundred million dollar lottery, is nothing less than extortion....squeeze the cost of a rabies shot out of all dog owners, by making it mandatory by law. I will not conform to a law that is so obviously in place just to increase the profits of pharmaceutical companies. I won't risk my babies' lives just because it is the law....I am an outlaw.


:HistericalSmiley:
:wub:


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

edelweiss said:


> It is very important to realize that a wavier or a titer does not cover your dog IF they snap at someone & break the skin. Your county & state would treat the pet as though they were not vaccinated or had coverage and that would vary from place to place.
> We order a special shot for Kitzel that has NO adjuvants and it has been safe for him (he only has had it once plus a TF1 in the US once). Lisi has anaphylactic reactions and will not receive any more shots----so technically she is not covered. I think it is more likely that Kitzel would bite someone than Lisi, but one can never be too sure.
> You may remember that Beatriz had a kid accuse her dog of biting & the dog had not even bitten, but Beatriz had to prove the dog was covered!


Good post, Sandi. I just read something recently that dog bites are on the top of the list for insurance liability cases. 

I'm still glad though that Snowball is exempt from further rabies vaccinations. To tell you the truth, otherwise, the Feds might come after us, too ... because I am a firm believer that our dogs are being way over vaccinated with the rabies vaccine. (ask most holistic vets) I agree 100% with Sylvia on this one.


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

Lucille is the one who told me to have a titer. I do remember what happened to Beatriz, now I'm second guessing myself. I love my vet, he is older and has always complimented me on Matilda. He fell in love with Maddie, he did share with me that by not having the rabies vaccination might be a issue down the line, Maddie will be 4 in June, I'll ask Lucille if Maddie has had the rabies shot before, who knows maybe she can tolerate it. 
I have always given my fluffs the rabies shot in the past, my vet did say if I decided to have her vaccinated with the rabies's shot that he thought it might be best to give her Benadryl before hand.
Traveling with Maddie might be a problem if I don't vaccinate her:blush: here I was all set not to have her vaccinated, and now I'm leaning on doing it, but before I decide for sure I will contact Lucille.
You know this is one reason I love SM so much, my mind can change by your experiences.


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

We too are required by law to get the Rabies shot. So far no bad reactions. I had Laurel and Violet Titered when their boosters were due. Laurels came back fine, but Violet didn't have enough immunity to Distemper or Parvovirus (I forget which ) I brought her back in, and she was given only the vaccine that she didn't have enough immunity . 
I think Hardy's the next for shots. I'll have him Titered too. 
I think that if me or one of my dogs got bit by a dog, one of the first things that I would want to know, if they had their Rabies shot. 
I've seen two dogs with Rabies when I was young, it was horrible! One an old stray that came into our yard as we were out playing, and my cousins German Shepherd that wasn't vaccinated.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Paula, my vet in Greece (who is Austrian) strongly advises against giving an antihistamine before vaccines (although I know a lot of people who do it) as there could be a rebound reaction which could be dangerous. There is an earlier thread here that goes into great detail about how it works. If your pup is going to react with a true anaphylactic reaction you need to know about it ASAP. If a dog is simply mildly allergic then an antihistamine won't hurt them. 
If you do give the rabies I would suggest the TF3 one here in the US. You may have to check around as not all vets carry this particular one---it would be worth the looking. Vets buy it in large quantities so some don't carry it. Also, don't forget to have them show you the tube that it comes in so you can be sure it is the right one. Vets draw the normal vaccine from a larger quantity bottle usually but the TF one is in it's own container. I had a vet in FL once who was about to give Kitzi the wrong one when I questioned them----be alert.


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## mdbflorida (Feb 28, 2013)

We do the rabies 3 year one and titer for the others. Both Zach and Boo only needed the rabies. We also do not do the lepto shot.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

We do not do lepto and we titer for distemper and parvo. I will do the rabies because of the legal liability and because my dogs go to the groomers and out in public a lot; in my county if your dog breaks the skin, they can impound the dog for quarantine. I'm not willing to take that risk, and so far the rabies vaccine has been ok. 

I also stopped doing Bordatella because Tessa got kennel cough from the vaccine and because it only is 30% effective. My groomer no longer requires Bordatella for that reason.


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

I'm getting great information from you all.


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## Mindi's mom (Aug 24, 2010)

I don't know how I feel. Rabies is the least of my worries with my dogs... They dont go outside by themselves. They aren't out fighting wild, rabid animals. My indoor/outdoor cats get theirs. They bring dead opossums up to our porch...I don't know what they get in to at night. I have given Mindi the 3 year rabies because it is mandatory. I dont think my vet will see them if they aren't current, for like her dental and stuff. Mindi had the "Vaccine Express" 2 years ago. It included vaccinations for distemper, parvovirus, parainfluenza, rabies, bordetella (TBV), annual fecal analysis, and a heartworm test.

I didn't take her for her vaccines last year or this year. But she did have a mild kennel cough for about a week. I dont know where she got it from. 

Now Oliver is recovering from parvo. I'll probably go ahead and continue having them vaccinated. Neither of them have had any adverse reactions to vaccines. Both are pretty big. Oliver is 8#, Mindi is 7.5#.

I am a big believer in vaccines for me and my kids. I don't know why I question it so much when it comes to my dogs. (Kinda a backwards way of thinking...)

As far as microchip. I paid $20 for Mindi's at our Humane Society's wellness clinic. They have since raised the price to $25. That includes lifetime registration to "24 hour pet watch". Their vaccines are $10 each.

BUT... it took them 3 tries to do Mindi's microchip (faulty equipment). She yelped and cried and was shaking uncontrollably, it hurt her so bad. Then at her next regular vet visit they asked if I wanted to have her microchipped. Evidently hers doesn't read on the machines (I can feel it under her skin). The Humane society said they would re-do it at no charge but I want to go somewhere that can numb the area first. I should really get to that. I'm going to have Oliver microchipped when he is being neutered.

Sorry for the long ramble. I don't even know if I answered your question.


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## Dominic (Nov 4, 2012)

I believe with rabies is a matter of following the law. It's the law to get the shot every three years after the first shot so it be. Thankfully mine have had it as Ben was falsely accused by my neighbors granddaughter of biting her - even though there was no bite, nothing to show on her skin, they went to the doctor and I had to prove my dog was vaccinated. 

I do take them out everywhere and wouldn't risk their freedom unless they have a reaction to the vaccine. As for the other shots I don't do bordatella, it is useless imo, and the other ones we'll stick with titer. As every decision we make, there are pros and cons, I find the consequence of not giving them rabies too scary. When I had the episode with Ben I was freaking out only to think they could've take him away from me.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Great that you jumped in here Beatriz! Your story is a great example of what can happen even when we are trying to do the right thing. People in the US are quick to sue and will do it for reasons we do not understand. It is better to be covered than sorry. I used your experience to warn me to not let strangers too near my "cute puppies." I don't like being snobby but it is sometimes for their good---and mine.


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## Mindi's mom (Aug 24, 2010)

I do like this titering idea. Not something the vets ever tell me. I didn't even know about it until you guys told me about it. I'm going to discuss cost with my vet.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

edelweiss said:


> Paula, my vet in Greece (who is Austrian) strongly advises against giving an antihistamine before vaccines (although I know a lot of people who do it) as there could be a rebound reaction which could be dangerous. There is an earlier thread here that goes into great detail about how it works. If your pup is going to react with a true anaphylactic reaction you need to know about it ASAP. If a dog is simply mildly allergic then an antihistamine won't hurt them.
> If you do give the rabies I would suggest the TF3 one here in the US. You may have to check around as not all vets carry this particular one---it would be worth the looking. Vets buy it in large quantities so some don't carry it. Also, don't forget to have them show you the tube that it comes in so you can be sure it is the right one. Vets draw the normal vaccine from a larger quantity bottle usually but the TF one is in it's own container. I had a vet in FL once who was about to give Kitzi the wrong one when I questioned them----be alert.


Snowball's last rabies vaccination was the TF3. And, he also had the Benadryl before the shot. He still had a severe reaction with vomiting, hives, a problem breathing ... and, right after the injection being aggressive to the whole staff at the vets office ...which he has NEVER done there. He was a very sick fluff baby even after two ER visits back to vet office. I am sorry ... but, I still get upset and emotional over that very scary and horrible experience.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

edelweiss said:


> Paula, my vet in Greece (who is Austrian) strongly advises against giving an antihistamine before vaccines (although I know a lot of people who do it) as there could be a rebound reaction which could be dangerous. There is an earlier thread here that goes into great detail about how it works. If your pup is going to react with a true anaphylactic reaction you need to know about it ASAP. If a dog is simply mildly allergic then an antihistamine won't hurt them.
> If you do give the rabies I would suggest the TF3 one here in the US. You may have to check around as not all vets carry this particular one---it would be worth the looking. Vets buy it in large quantities so some don't carry it. Also, don't forget to have them show you the tube that it comes in so you can be sure it is the right one. Vets draw the normal vaccine from a larger quantity bottle usually but the TF one is in it's own container. I had a vet in FL once who was about to give Kitzi the wrong one when I questioned them----be alert.


Snowball's last rabies vaccination was the TF3. And, he also had the Benadryl before the shot. He still had a severe reaction with vomiting, hives, a problem breathing ... and, right after the injection was aggressive to the whole staff at the vets office ...which he had NEVER done there before. I was stunned and so upset. He was a very sick fluff baby even after two ER visits back to vet office within the hour. I am sorry ... but, I still get upset and emotional over that very scary and horrible experience. Snowball has never been quite the same since then ... I think it did damage to his immune system. :smcry:


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## Dominic (Nov 4, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> Great that you jumped in here Beatriz! Your story is a great example of what can happen even when we are trying to do the right thing. People in the US are quick to sue and will do it for reasons we do not understand. It is better to be covered than sorry. I used your experience to warn me to not let strangers too near my "cute puppies." I don't like being snobby but it is sometimes for their good---and mine.



My vet also said something that sticks with me. He said when a dog bites a person, even if the person is in the wrong, the dog will pay the price. So we better follow the law on Rabies and handle the other shots according to our needs.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

edelweiss said:


> Great that you jumped in here Beatriz! Your story is a great example of what can happen even when we are trying to do the right thing. People in the US are quick to sue and will do it for reasons we do not understand. It is better to be covered than sorry. I used your experience to warn me to not let strangers too near my "cute puppies." I don't like being snobby but it is sometimes for their good---and mine.


And, that's what we have to do around strangers ... they are not allowed to touch Snowball. You are right ... in the US people are quick to sue. (well, people I don't know)


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Marie, no need to apologize. Lisi had 3 anaphylactic reactions (it is required by law for her to travel internationally to have it EVERY year---no exceptions, no waviers). The 3 reactions were to 2 different vaccines (only 2 were rabies). So I understand your frustration all too well. I also think her immune mediated situation is from the vaccines---although proving it is not possible. 
We have to do in life what we have to do. I try to not be adamant about vaccines but I do what I have to for us & keeping Lisi as safe as possible. I just think people should know that a wavier does not protect you from what happens if you are not vaccinated.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Mindi's mom said:


> I do like this titering idea. Not something the vets ever tell me. I didn't even know about it until you guys told me about it. I'm going to discuss cost with my vet.


What's interesting is when I was at my own doctor for my annual visit, we were talking about measles. I THINKS I was vaccinated as a child but I was born before it was mandatory. My dr was quick to say that if I wanted she could titer to be sure I was immune. 

If the people doctors can talk about it, then why the heck can't (or won't) the veterinarians?


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Dominic said:


> I believe with rabies is a matter of following the law. It's the law to get the shot every three years after the first shot so it be. Thankfully mine have had it as Ben was falsely accused by my neighbors granddaughter of biting her - even though there was no bite, nothing to show on her skin, they went to the doctor and I had to prove my dog was vaccinated.
> 
> I do take them out everywhere and wouldn't risk their freedom unless they have a reaction to the vaccine. As for the other shots I don't do bordatella, it is useless imo, and the other ones we'll stick with titer. As every decision we make, there are pros and cons, I find the consequence of not giving them rabies too scary. When I had the episode with Ben I was freaking out only to think they could've take him away from me.


I remember your story. I would have freaked out, too. Your story was the perfect example of why we have to be so careful. 

I wish Snowball would not have had such a bad reaction to the rabies vaccine ... but, unfortunately he did.


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## Mindi's mom (Aug 24, 2010)

maggieh said:


> What's interesting is when I was at my own doctor for my annual visit, we were talking about measles. I THINKS I was vaccinated as a child but I was born before it was mandatory. My dr was quick to say that if I wanted she could titer to be sure I was immune.
> 
> If the people doctors can talk about it, then why the heck can't (or won't) the veterinarians?


Agreed. For a job I had at a hospital they asked about chicken pox. I have had chicken pox and shingles. She just ran a titer to make sure. No big deal. It should be common practice...While kinda on the subject about human Drs vs vets. I think it is really weird that humans don't have fecal/parasite tests. My kids have had worms, I've had them twice in my life. I would rather be tested then find out on my own... Sorry, off topic.


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## Lou's Mom (Apr 8, 2014)

Before I knew about titers mine were vaccinated - but I always had the shots split up - only one kind of vaccine per visit and after Nola had a reaction, I always gave them children's benadryl beforehand. Now that I know thanks to you all, they will be titered for everything except Rabies. Texas requires it and if the certificate is not up to date they can and will quarantine the dog and put them through treatment according to my vet.


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

Dominic said:


> I believe with rabies is a matter of following the law. It's the law to get the shot every three years after the first shot so it be. Thankfully mine have had it as Ben was falsely accused by my neighbors granddaughter of biting her - even though there was no bite, nothing to show on her skin, they went to the doctor and I had to prove my dog was vaccinated.
> 
> I do take them out everywhere and wouldn't risk their freedom unless they have a reaction to the vaccine. As for the other shots I don't do bordatella, it is useless imo, and the other ones we'll stick with titer. As every decision we make, there are pros and cons, I find the consequence of not giving them rabies too scary. When I had the episode with Ben I was freaking out only to think they could've take him away from me.




I had forgotten about your scare, but was reminded of it, I think that's what has changed my mind. I'll talk to Maddie's breeder to make sure she hasn't had a reaction before, if not I will get the vaccination, your story scared me to much, better to be safe then sorry.
The day Maddie has her rabbis shot I'll be asking for prayer that's for sure


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## Dominic (Nov 4, 2012)

Matilda's mommy said:


> I had forgotten about your scare, but was reminded of it, I think that's what has changed my mind. I'll talk to Maddie's breeder to make sure she hasn't had a reaction before, if not I will get the vaccination, your story scared me to much, better to be safe then sorry.
> The day Maddie has her rabbis shot I'll be asking for prayer that's for sure



Great idea to ask about her previous shot. Your vet seems to be a great one, that helps a lot. I don't wish anyone to go thru what I've been, it's a horrible feeling to be in the right and knowing your dog worth less than a little lier. How classless of me calling a child a lier but unfortunately that's the truth. Give Maddie and Matilda a kiss from me.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

shellbeme said:


> I have my boys vaccinated. I believe in vaccines, however, I also believe we over vaccinate. My vet does the 3 year vaccine. Tucker does have reactions to vaccines-sometimes he'll cry a bit, he will shiver and just want to nap. I have talked with our vet and our emergency vet about it and unless he's breaking out in hives or throwing up or something they don't seem concerned.
> 
> Doesn't mean I'm not concerned.  I always freak out when it's time.
> 
> I have heard some vets say titers are wonderful and others say that they are not accurate. I don't know what the right answer is. I thought, that it was legal to just go with a titer and forgo the rabies vaccine if you have the back up of a vet-and documentation from them but I haven't discussed that with our vet.


If you are concerned about over vaccination, then why not titer for distemper and parvo, especially if your fluff has reactions? I've found that many vets are not experts in immunology and rely primarily on the vaccine makers for information, so of course you won't get the truth about titers. I have heard enough vets, both "traditional" and holistic, explain the science behind titers and immunology to where I am comfortable checking titers instead of automatically sticking them with toxin. My current vet has a doxie that she titers and will only do rabies as required by law because he had a reaction in the past. 

As an FYI, one of the foremost researchers in the field of canine vaccines and immunology is Dr. Ron Schultz, Chair of the Department of Pathobiological Services at the Univ. of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine. If titers are good enough for him (and he titers his own animals), then they are certainly good enough for me.

Ronald D Schultz | University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine

The Best Part About the New Dog Vaccination Guidelines


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

It just hit me that I should have Lisi & Kitzi both titered while still in the US for Parvo & Distemper. I don't know what I would do if Lisi came up lacking though since she can't have any more shots???????? Kitzi is 5 & hasn't had anything except rabies since he had his baby shots. Lisi is 3 but has issues. I think I need to call a vet. They both need to be tested for heart worm anyhow since I don't give them any chemicals & we don't have heart worm in Austria. I have been in the US since Sept. so we need to test.


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## luvsmalts (Oct 21, 2008)

I got Boomer's 3 yr rabies a couple of weeks ago and no problem. Last year I requested a titer for his DHPP vaccine and I assumed wouldn't have to worry about it for 3 yrs since it showed immunity. At his annual physical a couple of weeks ago the vet said he needed a dental and he had two loose teeth. But it's their policy not to treat unless he's fully vaccinated and she doesn't believe the titers mean anything. So now I'm feeling forced to vaccinate since they also groom him and require vaccinations. I feel damned if I do and damned if I don't.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Is there another vet you could check that would work with you on this? I would call around since it is unwise to vaccinate more than necessary. I would also be honest w/your current vet & let them know you feel it is necessary to consult someone else since you don't agree w/his/her philosophy.


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## donnad (Aug 22, 2006)

Chloe had to have a rabbies shot when she had her dental. Summer is good until June. If it wasn't that they will not do the dental without the rabbies shot. I wouldn't let them get it. As for the other vaccinations, I said no to them. My vet didn't argue the point. They both were vaccinated two years ago. I don't think I am going to get them vaccinated anymore.


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## jane and addison (Nov 1, 2012)

None of mine, going back over the years, have had any problems with the Rabies shot but Penny had a reaction to one shot and the vet said it was not an issue here in Ohio. So no help here. Good luck.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

maggieh said:


> As an FYI, one of the foremost researchers in the field of canine vaccines and immunology is Dr. Ron Schultz, Chair of the Department of Pathobiological Services at the Univ. of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine. If titers are good enough for him (and he titers his own animals), then they are certainly good enough for me.
> 
> Ronald D Schultz | University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine
> 
> The Best Part About the New Dog Vaccination Guidelines


When I listened to him talking to Dr Becker, and heard that both he and she only titer, that was it for me. No more vaccinations for mine. They both have high immunity, and being in Canada don't need rabies either.


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## lynda (Oct 11, 2005)

I just went through this with my Chloe. Last Sept she had her three year rabies shot. It was the third time that she suffered a reaction. Her face swells up, gets extremely red and she vomits. I talked to my vet about no more rabies and he informed me that I would have to go to the state. I contacted the state Vet and was informed that to get an exemption it would have to take place at a hearing they have once a year. This was suppose to be on Jan 15th. Just before the date I called to make sure that the hearing was still going to take place, they are about a bit more than an hr. away from us. 
The state vet said yes as long as there were enough members of the board available. At that time he also told me what would be involved if she did get an exemption. She was to always be leashed, should not go to public places, if she should bite any one or was bitten by another animal she would need to be quarantined for a period of 6 months, and not in our home. In a state approved facility. That alone would kill Chloe and that is when I decided I would not pursue the exemption. If any of my dogs would possibly bite anyone it would be Chloe. She is not vicious but she could snap at you if handled the wrong way.

Don't think it can't happen cause it can!!!!!!

My first Maltese Pebbles bit a girl I was interviewing for a house cleaning job. She bit her through her jeans as she came into our home and barely broke the skin. The girl went to he hospital for a shot and reported it. A week later I got a letter from the dog warden wanting proof of her rabies vaccine and he also quarantined her for 15 days in our home.

Picture of Chloe's face after her shot.


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## lynda (Oct 11, 2005)

One more thing, Chloe does get the thimerosal free vaccine and I also give her Benadryl an hour before we go to the vets. Now she will be taken to an animal hospital for her shots and given Benadryl through IV to prevent any problems per advice from my Vet.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

jane and addison said:


> None of mine, going back over the years, have had any problems with the Rabies shot but Penny had a reaction to one shot and the vet said it was not an issue here in Ohio. So no help here. Good luck.


I don't understand what your vet said is not an issue in Ohio. That Penny had a reaction to one shot? Which shot?


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

lynda said:


> One more thing, Chloe does get the thimerosal free vaccine and I also give her Benadryl an hour before we go to the vets. Now she will be taken to an animal hospital for her shots and given Benadryl through IV to prevent any problems per advice from my Vet.


I feel as though I have shared this several times on SM and don't mean to be a pest ... 

Snowball's last rabies vaccination was thimerosal free and he always was pretreated with Benadryl before his vaccinations. Neither helped Snowball from having a serious adverse reaction to the rabies vaccine.


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## lynda (Oct 11, 2005)

I believe there are studies going on right now regarding the rabies vaccine. Mine all got there shots this past year, so I'm hoping in three years there will possibly be some kind of good out come before mine need vaccination again. Especially for Chloe. Mine vet even suggested giving Chloe half the dose but then found out it would not be recognized by the state.


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## lydiatug (Feb 21, 2012)

I understand your dilema, but there really isn't one in my mind. I titer every 3 years for MY peace of mind, but Bayleigh will never get another vaccine period. After the 2nd anaphylactic reaction, when she felt dead in my arms, no way. If her titers come back low, I'll just take more precautions. My girls are very low risk, so I'm not worried.

3 out of 3 of my dogs have had severe reactions to vaccines. I'm not a fan beyond initial vaccination protocol. Rabies is the only one mandatory by law, but luckily we live in a state that currently allows waivers and both of mine have them. The ones that aren't madatory is up to us, not our Vets, so titer away and don't worry unless they come back low.

I've recently read that part of the new human "healthcare" is making ALL vaccinations mandatory for us human adults as well, including "catch up" vaccines from childhood. The problem I'm afraid we will run into is that vets/doctors will no longer treat us or our pets unless we are "fully vaccinated". Then the decision becomes more difficult.



edelweiss said:


> It just hit me that I should have Lisi & Kitzi both titered while still in the US for Parvo & Distemper. I don't know what I would do if Lisi came up lacking though since she can't have any more shots???????? Kitzi is 5 & hasn't had anything except rabies since he had his baby shots. Lisi is 3 but has issues. I think I need to call a vet. They both need to be tested for heart worm anyhow since I don't give them any chemicals & we don't have heart worm in Austria. I have been in the US since Sept. so we need to test.


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## lydiatug (Feb 21, 2012)

I didn't see your post Pat, before I commented...but what you're saying is absolutely correct, expresses my fears exactly. Our only hope is that we can find a holistic vet that feels as we do and will provide treatment. 



luvsmalts said:


> I got Boomer's 3 yr rabies a couple of weeks ago and no problem. Last year I requested a titer for his DHPP vaccine and I assumed wouldn't have to worry about it for 3 yrs since it showed immunity. At his annual physical a couple of weeks ago the vet said he needed a dental and he had two loose teeth. But it's their policy not to treat unless he's fully vaccinated and she doesn't believe the titers mean anything. So now I'm feeling forced to vaccinate since they also groom him and require vaccinations. I feel damned if I do and damned if I don't.


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## lydiatug (Feb 21, 2012)

Chloe's symptoms are identical to the beginning of Bayleigh's symptoms of anaphylactic, except once she vomits, she's out and doesn't appear to be breathing. Benedryl pre-dosing did not help Bayleigh either, actually made that reaction the worst ever. My vet is very pro vaccine, but said she can NEVER have another, it would most likely prove fatal. I'm afraid I would take my chances, not vaccinate her again, and risk the consequences even if I didn't have the waiver. Your poor baby girl should not have to have life threatening vaccines, and shame on them that want to force you to have them!



lynda said:


> I just went through this with my Chloe. Last Sept she had her three year rabies shot. It was the third time that she suffered a reaction. Her face swells up, gets extremely red and she vomits. I talked to my vet about no more rabies and he informed me that I would have to go to the state. I contacted the state Vet and was informed that to get an exemption it would have to take place at a hearing they have once a year. This was suppose to be on Jan 15th. Just before the date I called to make sure that the hearing was still going to take place, they are about a bit more than an hr. away from us.
> The state vet said yes as long as there were enough members of the board available. At that time he also told me what would be involved if she did get an exemption. She was to always be leashed, should not go to public places, if she should bite any one or was bitten by another animal she would need to be quarantined for a period of 6 months, and not in our home. In a state approved facility. That alone would kill Chloe and that is when I decided I would not pursue the exemption. If any of my dogs would possibly bite anyone it would be Chloe. She is not vicious but she could snap at you if handled the wrong way.
> 
> Don't think it can't happen cause it can!!!!!!
> ...


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Unfortunately, one of the difficulties is that often the reaction appears not with the first shot but with a subsequent shot. Sorry Chloe had such a bad reaction.


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## Ann Mother (Dec 18, 2013)

I had mine titered for the DPPH. He is two & there was plenty immunity. I had to insist on the titer because the vet did not think repeated vaccines would hurt the dog. Afterwards the vet gave me the titer results with a notification that the dog was fully protected. I would also forgo the rabies vaccine if a bad reaction and deal with the restrictions 😒.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

silverhaven said:


> When I listened to him talking to Dr Becker, and heard that both he and she only titer, that was it for me. No more vaccinations for mine. They both have high immunity, and being in Canada don't need rabies either.


So, in Canada if the titer level test indicates high immunity the dogs don't have to have the rabies vaccination, right? 

I just don't understand why in the US a rabies titer is not acceptable.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Marie, a rabies titer is not acceptable because we have rabies in the US and a titer can drop below acceptable level at any time. Vets don't trust that a pet may be close to the unacceptable line.


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## lynda (Oct 11, 2005)

wkomorow said:


> Unfortunately, one of the difficulties is that often the reaction appears not with the first shot but with a subsequent shot. Sorry Chloe had such a bad reaction.


Your right Walter, Chloe did not have any reaction with her initial rabies shot. It is the others that she had reactions with.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

As I mentioned to Paula there is a previous thread about dangers of using an antihistamine with or previous to an injection. It would be well worth your time to read those. This is the third time I have read a post here (this one plus the one from April & one from Marie) that shows personal experience of how it hasn't worked. As I said before there is a difference in an allergic reaction and a full-blown anaphylactic reaction. An antihistamine can help with an allergy, but not w. the anaphylactic reaction. 
Lisi did have a reaction to her first injection (unusual but true)----it was minor compared to the other two---but it was still serious.
We need to give caution when advising others in these serious matters. ALL dogs & all reactions are NOT the same. Please follow the advice of your vet---not well meaning SM people (such as myself!).


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I feel as though I have shared this several times on SM and don't mean to be a pest ...
> 
> Snowball's last rabies vaccination was thimerosal free and he always was pretreated with Benadryl before his vaccinations. Neither helped Snowball from having a serious adverse reaction to the rabies vaccine.





edelweiss said:


> Marie, a rabies titer is not acceptable because we have rabies in the US and a titer can drop below acceptable level at any time. Vets don't trust that a pet may be close to the unacceptable line.


Thanks, Sandi. Now I have even more questions.


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## lynda (Oct 11, 2005)

I am not worried about getting the waiver. I truly believe they would give me the waiver if I pursue this. What scares me is if she should nip someone and that someone reports it. If it is found out that she is not vaccinated at the least they will take her from me and quarantine her for 6 months. At the most they can legally euthanize her. That is the law in my state. 

I have already, many years ago, had a dog that bit some one and was home quarantined. That was because I had proof of a rabies shot. You are right, dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

This whole topic makes me sick. Not because of anything said here by my SM family but because of the dilemma Chloe and I are in. I am going to do my best to not worry about it for three more years.


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Oh Lynda, what an awful position to be in. How scary knowing that she has already had reactions.
Is there any way you can control who she comes in contact with, to be sure that she never nips anyone? At least that part of it might be within your control. These vaccine reactions scare me so much. It feels like such a gamble with their health. No easy answers.



lynda said:


> I am not worried about getting the waiver. I truly believe they would give me the waiver if I pursue this. What scares me is if she should nip someone and that someone reports it. If it is found out that she is not vaccinated at the least they will take her from me and quarantine her for 6 months. At the most they can legally euthanize her. That is the law in my state.
> 
> I have already, many years ago, had a dog that bit some one and was home quarantined. That was because I had proof of a rabies shot. You are right, dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.
> 
> This whole topic makes me sick. Not because of anything said here by my SM family but because of the dilemma Chloe and I are in. I am going to do my best to not worry about it for three more years.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

lynda said:


> I am not worried about getting the waiver. I truly believe they would give me the waiver if I pursue this. What scares me is if she should nip someone and that someone reports it. If it is found out that she is not vaccinated at the least they will take her from me and quarantine her for 6 months. At the most they can legally euthanize her. That is the law in my state.
> 
> I have already, many years ago, had a dog that bit some one and was home quarantined. That was because I had proof of a rabies shot. You are right, dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.
> 
> This whole topic makes me sick. Not because of anything said here by my SM family but because of the dilemma Chloe and I are in. I am going to do my best to not worry about it for three more years.


Me too, Lynda. The subject is upsetting for me because of what we and our precious fluff babies have already gone through.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> So, in Canada if the titer level test indicates high immunity the dogs don't have to have the rabies vaccination, right?
> 
> I just don't understand why in the US a rabies titer is not acceptable.


Marie, no vaccines are required here. Don't even think you can titer for rabies, but mine were only titered for Parvo and distemper. Both had a level of 1.50. Penny will never have the rabies vaccine, the vet says with her size and the fact that there really isn't any rabies here, it isn't necessary. Lola had one, but won't have any more. 

It just means we can't travel out of Canada with them. So no US meetups for us


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

I don't understand this level that they are talking about getting below. Dr. Schulz says immunity is immunity and that the level doesn't really matter, I believe, and that if you re-immunize that it will only raise it a little bit, and not worth risking having a vaccine for that. So I don't understand why they don't listen to the experts.


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## Dominic (Nov 4, 2012)

Kathleen said:


> Is there any way you can control who she comes in contact with, to be sure that she never nips anyone?.



That's what I do every time a stranger approach my dogs, my husband used to say I was borderline rude as I put my hands forward when people just come trying to put their hands on them. I even say they are not friendly (Dom and Elena are social butterflies while Ben prefers being the one approaching you). 

Anyway, when my neighbors granddaughter came towards Ben I went down on my knee and had his leash super short while saying he is not used to kids (don't remember exactly what I said). The kid bent down and barked at my dogs face and he barked back then got accused of biting her while he was nowhere close to her knees. 

No matter what you do, you'll bump into clueless people everywhere! So now my husband agrees with my not so friendly response to strangers and I don't have my dogs for anyone's pleasure so whatever people think about my "hey don't touch him!" It's none of my business. Their safety always come first. 

In all fairness many of SM friends knows Ben, Sandy just met him in January, he's the most loving funny guy as long as you respect his space.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Ben is a little angel----and a very handsome one. He is precious beyond words. I am still sorry about the little girl who tried to scam you, Beatriz. 
There are legal limits to how low a rabies titer can be to travel internationally (to places that dont have rabies like the UK & Sweden)---not sure about the US rules.
Maureen, we may all be moving to Canada soon!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

With Lisi I don't give rabies ---- I follow the "don't ask, don't tell" rule. I do titer her to make sure she is still within the acceptable allowance of "OK."


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I would encourage anyone who doesn't do the rabies vaccine for whatever reason (waver or otherwise) to make certain your household insurance covers you if a pet would bite someone---even someone who deserves to be bitten!:HistericalSmiley:
Also to check with your city, county, state on how they would handle such a scenario (as Lynda has done). I don't know what I would do if I lived state-side, but I need to figure it out. :smilie_tischkante:


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Lynda, get a muzzle (the basket kind) and put it on whenever she leaves the house. Keep her behind the gate when people come over. If you truly cannot vaccinate, then we manage it! 
I did check a rabies titer on Soda when he couldn't be vaccinated. At least that way I knew if he had a incident with another dog or animal that he was good.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

silverhaven said:


> I don't understand this level that they are talking about getting below. Dr. Schulz says immunity is immunity and that the level doesn't really matter, I believe, and that if you re-immunize that it will only raise it a little bit, and not worth risking having a vaccine for that. So I don't understand why they don't listen to the experts.


I have heard that it doesnt"just stop" either like some vets think. It's true that over a period of many years immunity may wane, just like it does with people, but as long as there is immunity there is no need to vaccinate. In fact, according to my holistic vet, if you vaccinate an immune dog you are not doing any good and in fact can trigger an auto immune disorder.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

maggieh said:


> I have heard that it doesnt"just stop" either like some vets think. It's true that over a period of many years immunity may wane, just like it does with people, but as long as there is immunity there is no need to vaccinate. In fact, according to my holistic vet, if you vaccinate an immune dog you are not doing any good and in fact can trigger an auto immune disorder.


I don't think the vets are saying "it stops"---just that there is a lawful area of acceptability & then when it drops below that the law no longer recognizes it's acceptability (I am speaking of rabies vaccine here as it is interpreted by a country like the UK). Vets are obligated to abide by the law so I can understand that this may be a dilemma for them. What needs to be changed is the law. 
I totally agree w. Maggie's last statement---look at Lisi!


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## Ann Mother (Dec 18, 2013)

My daughter is an ER nurse & they run titers on the nurses for certain infectious diseases & only when they are low do they re vaccinate.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

My statement above should maybe be qualified. When Lisi got so sick last June we had her rabies titered when they were doing lots of other blood work. She did not reach the acceptable level to travel to the UK. However, Dr. Dodds said that this doesn't mean she isn't covered. Apparently the UK has a high number when it comes to immunity security. Lisi doesn't mind---she said "see the Queen ?, I AM the queen!" :wub:


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

Does anyone think that an illness can determine the outcome of A Titer? 
Laurel and Violet were Titered for Parvovirus and Distemper last year . Laurels was fine but Violets was low for her Distemper. She had Pancreatitis the year before and was really sick. 
They both had their shots at the same time, three years before. 
I had her Distemper shot given two weeks after her Titer came back low. 
Just wondering?


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Deb, take a look at this site:
Antibody-Titer Test: Purpose, Procedure & Preparation


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

edelweiss said:


> Deb, take a look at this site:
> Antibody-Titer Test: Purpose, Procedure & Preparation


Since I have absolutely no medical background at all, is the article saying 
Since Violet was sick , that her immune system was low, because of it? Or are her memory cells confused because of her illness?


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I may be wrong Deb but I think it can go both ways. If the immune system doesn't react then it can't fight bacterial infections. If it is in over-drive (like Lisi's) it brings on a whole new area of issues---attacking it's on cells, etc. 
This article left it open, from what I understood. It led me to believe that certain meds & treatments like chemo, or just plain supplements can have an outcome on titers. This may not be true in all titers---I don't know. I think it merits more study. Great question!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I forgot to say that I do think some inoculations "take" better than others for whatever reasons (maybe from older vaccine or how it was handled??). I think Lisi's rabies titer is lower because she was given stuff to reverse or make it less effective when she had her anaphylaxis. Again, as long as a pup is covered I would decline another vaccine even if the number isn't that high. Autoimmunity can be a serious result of vaccinosis. Vaccines are a good thing so we need to do our homework & figure out how & when to use them.


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

edelweiss said:


> I forgot to say that I do think some inoculations "take" better than others for whatever reasons (maybe from older vaccine or how it was handled??). I think Lisi's rabies titer is lower because she was given stuff to reverse or make it less effective when she had her anaphylaxis. Again, as long as a pup is covered I would decline another vaccine even if the number isn't that high. Autoimmunity can be a serious result of vaccinosis. Vaccines are a good thing so we need to do our homework & figure out how & when to use them.




Thank you Sandi. Until I got in this forum I didn't have a clue about over vaccinating. When my other dogs were due , they just got them. It's great to have info about things so important, and make our own decisions. 
Thankfully my vets are on board about titers. 

Violet was on a boatload of meds for about 2 weeks, so that could be one of the reasons ,


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## luvsmalts (Oct 21, 2008)

I called my vets office and talked to the receptionist, told her I was confused and needed verification that they could not treat Boomer since he had titers done and their policy was he had to be fully vaccinated. She talked to the vet and now they say they will leave it up to me if I want to vaccinate or do titers. I verified they would do his dental and his grooming and they agreed. I don't know why the change of heart just glad I don't have to change vets since he's use to them. I think they just didn't like the idea I wasn't going along with their recommendations.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

luvsmalts said:


> I called my vets office and talked to the receptionist, told her I was confused and needed verification that they could not treat Boomer since he had titers done and their policy was he had to be fully vaccinated. She talked to the vet and now they say they will leave it up to me if I want to vaccinate or do titers. I verified they would do his dental and his grooming and they agreed. I don't know why the change of heart just glad I don't have to change vets since he's use to them. I think they just didn't like the idea I wasn't going along with their recommendations.


Pat, I would make sure it's documented in Boomer's chart ... that it is agreed the vet will let it up to you in regard to titers and vaccinations.


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## luvsmalts (Oct 21, 2008)

Thanks Marie I'll do that, it might prevent any misunderstandings in the future.


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

Matilda's mommy said:


> What does your vet charge you for a microchip, we were so surprised the vet visit, examine and microchip cost us $39.00. We couldn't believe how reasonable our vet is. It cost $45.00 to enroll her for life.
> Yesterday I took Maddie to our vets to get a microchip, while I was there I was talking to my vet about Maddie and rabies shots, he explained to me that titering was not a option for rabies vaccination, he said that in the USA it's often not recognized or allowed. He told me that the state I live in requires rabies vaccination, but he said he feels dogs under 5 lbs should not be vaccinated at all, he feels they should be tiered.His advice to me was I should wait three years on Maddie and then have her tiered for her other shots. Before Maddie came, her breeder Lucille had her vet vaccinate her but left the Rabies for us.
> Hubby and I decided not to have the rabies vaccination.
> Matilda does has the rabies vaccination, she has never had any issues, we give her the three year shot.
> Do you vaccinate your small fluffs?


what brand micro chip? I have to pay each year for a subscription


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## lydiatug (Feb 21, 2012)

Michelle, I have AVID and only ever pay a one time fee.


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Michelle, 

I have petlink - $20 for lifetime registration - they send me an email every year to remind me to update any contact info.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Vaccines: When too Much of a Good Thing Turns Bad

Just read this by Dr. Jean Dodds


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

Thank you Lydia and Walter for the info.I had mine done at the animal shelter as part of a fund raiser,they messed up the registration on Amber and it's listed to another person and I can't get it changed... so if Amber gets lost,they will contact that other person!

I'll be rechipping my babies to a more reliable service..I have 24 hour pet watch and you have to pay $25 per year, per pet..


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