# help in ascertaining if breeder is reputable



## love maltese (Jul 20, 2008)

hi
are there any resources available to verify if a breeder is truly reputable? i greatly appreciate any guidance as this has turned out to be an overwhelming process!


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## Missy&Maggie (Jun 17, 2007)

QUOTE (love maltese @ Jul 20 2008, 11:17 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608326


> hi
> are there any resources available to verify if a breeder is truly reputable? i greatly appreciate any guidance as this has turned out to be an overwhelming process![/B]


First off, :welcome1: The AMA, American Maltese Association is great place to start looking for a reputable breeder. The breeder's section of SM is also a great resource.

If you give us a little more information such as price range, male or female Maltese, and location we might be able to help you find a great reputable breeder or at least point you in the right direction.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

We have an entire forum topic devoted to breeders. You can read the archives. It's a start.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

This thread is pinned at the top of our Breeders section. It is a wonderful resource for anyone looking for a reputable breeder:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4046

It's always a good idea to check with the Better Business Bureau that services the area the breeder in is to see if any complaints have been filed. Also, check Rip Off Report as many breeders are reviewed there.

Always check to make sure a particular breeder isn't on the USDA "puppy mill" list:

http://prisonersofgreed.org/ListA2006.pdf

Finally, if you have a particluar breeder in mind, do a search here for any information. You can also post the name of the breeder and/or a website link to see if anyone is familiar with them.

As Missy said, the best place to start is the breeders list on the AMA website.


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## makettle29 (Nov 12, 2005)

I know what you mean about being overwhelmed when searching for a new pup. This forum is a tremendous resource for all things Maltese. Keep us posted and keep asking questions when you have them.

good luck,

mary anna herk and theena


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## love maltese (Jul 20, 2008)

QUOTE (Missy&Maggie @ Jul 20 2008, 12:31 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608352


> QUOTE (love maltese @ Jul 20 2008, 11:17 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608326





> hi
> are there any resources available to verify if a breeder is truly reputable? i greatly appreciate any guidance as this has turned out to be an overwhelming process![/B]


First off, :welcome1: The AMA, American Maltese Association is great place to start looking for a reputable breeder. The breeder's section of SM is also a great resource.

If you give us a little more information such as price range, male or female Maltese, and location we might be able to help you find a great reputable breeder or at least point you in the right direction. 
[/B][/QUOTE]


thank you...i very much appreciate it!
i am seriously considering adopting a puppy from a particular breeder who is affiliated with the akc and not with ama. she seems to be very passionate about maltese, breeding and showing, however i've had some unpleasant experiences recently with some questionable breeders, and therefore just want to do all my research to make sure i am in good hands!


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## love maltese (Jul 20, 2008)

QUOTE (makettle29 @ Jul 20 2008, 01:33 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608400


> I know what you mean about being overwhelmed when searching for a new pup. This forum is a tremendous resource for all things Maltese. Keep us posted and keep asking questions when you have them.
> 
> good luck,
> 
> mary anna herk and theena[/B]



thanks very much! will do!


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## love maltese (Jul 20, 2008)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Jul 20 2008, 01:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608380


> We have an entire forum topic devoted to breeders. You can read the archives. It's a start.[/B]



yes, i did and found it very helpful. this particular breeder has not been mentioned in past threads........


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## Krystal (Feb 3, 2007)

QUOTE (love maltese @ Jul 20 2008, 04:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608550


> QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Jul 20 2008, 01:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608380





> We have an entire forum topic devoted to breeders. You can read the archives. It's a start.[/B]



yes, i did and found it very helpful. this particular breeder has not been mentioned in past threads........
[/B][/QUOTE]


If you let us know the name of the breeder or give a website we can help you out from there. Have you placed a deposit on a puppy?


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## love maltese (Jul 20, 2008)

QUOTE (Krystal @ Jul 20 2008, 06:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608557


> QUOTE (love maltese @ Jul 20 2008, 04:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608550





> QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Jul 20 2008, 01:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608380





> We have an entire forum topic devoted to breeders. You can read the archives. It's a start.[/B]



yes, i did and found it very helpful. this particular breeder has not been mentioned in past threads........
[/B][/QUOTE]


If you let us know the name of the breeder or give a website we can help you out from there. Have you placed a deposit on a puppy?
[/B][/QUOTE]


thank you. i have not placed a deposit. the breeder was kind enough to hold the puppy without a deposit and i am making arrangements to pick up the puppy.


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

There's some good information on how to pick a good breeder and questions to ask a breeder at petplace.com. Just do a search on "breeder". There's an annoying pop-up window on that site, but you can close the window at the bottom when it pops up.






Joy


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## makettle29 (Nov 12, 2005)

You seem to have reservations about this breeder you are working with. (I think) Is there anything specific that is making you question your process?


Presuming you are not buying a Malt from a puppy mill the main concern IMO is the long term health of your pet. Reputable breeders go to great lengths to try and produce pups from parents that are without the health problems that less well bred toy dogs suffer from. They breed for healthy litters that will closely resemble the breed standard and maintain the integrity of the breed for the future. These are the breeders we want to support. 

A Malts health is a funny thing as no one I know on this forum would "return" a pup for health reasons, but you do have some recourse if you have some health guarantee with your breeder. Most of us would spend everything we had to make our pups well, and some have! Lots of us love our not so perfect puppies like they were grand champions. 


Good luck,

mary anna herk and theena


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

Are you saying that you found your breeder on the AKC breeder Classified's? And you are asking if this person is reputable? Being on the AKC breeder Classified does not mean they are a reputable breeder. You can place your ad on the AKC breeder Classified when you register your litter. Trust your gut instincts on what you think of this person. Good luck finding your maltese puppy.

Tina


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

As you probably know by now there are a lot of things to look for in finding a good breeder but in my opinion the first thing I would ask is when do they let them go to their new owner. If the answer is 12 weeks then I would continue looking at this breeder. If the answer is 8-10 weeks then I would move on and not consider this breeder. 

After all that I have learned here on the forum I would not take a new puppy home without a Bile Acids Test done at about 11-12 weeks either.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Jul 20 2008, 10:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608618


> As you probably know by now there are a lot of things to look for in finding a good breeder but in my opinion the first thing I would ask is when do they let them go to their new owner. If the answer is 12 weeks then I would continue looking at this breeder. If the answer is 8-10 weeks then I would move on and not consider this breeder.
> 
> After all that I have learned here on the forum I would not take a new puppy home without a Bile Acids Test done at about 11-12 weeks either.[/B]



I agree. The American Maltese Association requires breeders to keep Maltese puppies until they are at least twelve weeks old. I would not consider a breeder who didn't follow the twleve week rule. It's a huge red flag that she may not be following other AMA guidelines like breeding to the standard, health testing, etc.

Here is more about the twelve week rule and why it is so important:

http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/12weekrule.htm


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## love maltese (Jul 20, 2008)

QUOTE (Tina @ Jul 20 2008, 10:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608611


> Are you saying that you found your breeder on the AKC breeder Classified's? And you are asking if this person is reputable? Being on the AKC breeder Classified does not mean they are a reputable breeder. You can place your ad on the AKC breeder Classified when you register your litter. Trust your gut instincts on what you think of this person. Good luck finding your maltese puppy.
> 
> Tina[/B]



i did not find her on akc breeder classifieds. i came across her website while i was researching information as well as other breeders........i have come across so much information within such a short period of time, i can't clearly recall exactly how i found her website...i know it sounds terrible! thank you for your help!


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## love maltese (Jul 20, 2008)

QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Jul 20 2008, 10:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608618


> As you probably know by now there are a lot of things to look for in finding a good breeder but in my opinion the first thing I would ask is when do they let them go to their new owner. If the answer is 12 weeks then I would continue looking at this breeder. If the answer is 8-10 weeks then I would move on and not consider this breeder.
> 
> After all that I have learned here on the forum I would not take a new puppy home without a Bile Acids Test done at about 11-12 weeks either.[/B]



this breeder does not allow her puppies to leave before 12 weeks. i guess i get a little worried when breeders offer to put the puppy on a short flight if makinga rrangements to fly to the breeder starts becoming involved. maybe i'm being silly, but i worry that a less than 2 pound baby is being placed in cargo.........


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## love maltese (Jul 20, 2008)

hi

i just wanted to thank everyone for their help! i am new to this site and have found it tremendously helpful and admire and appreciate how its members offer good advice and information!


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## jlhajmom (Feb 23, 2008)

Just because someone is on the AMA list does not mean he or she is a good breeder.
I assumed so and it has cost me an incredible amount of money to take care of my little Ava. Just because someone is on the AMA list does not mean he or she is following the code of ethics. Make sure you ask the right questions and if the breeder is not testing bile acids on the parents before breeding and not testing the bile acids on the puppies you want to run in the other direction. Insist on a written health guarantee. The best breeders offer them.


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## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

QUOTE (love maltese @ Jul 21 2008, 07:55 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=609002


> QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Jul 20 2008, 10:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=608618





> As you probably know by now there are a lot of things to look for in finding a good breeder but in my opinion the first thing I would ask is when do they let them go to their new owner. If the answer is 12 weeks then I would continue looking at this breeder. If the answer is 8-10 weeks then I would move on and not consider this breeder.
> 
> After all that I have learned here on the forum I would not take a new puppy home without a Bile Acids Test done at about 11-12 weeks either.[/B]



this breeder does not allow her puppies to leave before 12 weeks. i guess i get a little worried when breeders offer to put the puppy on a short flight if makinga rrangements to fly to the breeder starts becoming involved. maybe i'm being silly, but i worry that a less than 2 pound baby is being placed in cargo.........
[/B][/QUOTE]

Yikes! I would never do this! (Allow a puppy to be put in cargo!) Especially with a 2 lb puppy! I had considered taking Midis (who would be only one month short of 2 years old, and 9 lbs by the time I make the trip) to Florida with me in October to visit my friend for nearly a week. He could have been put in a pet-flight bag and kept in the passenger section under my feet. But I deemed this too traumatic for him, as he does not even like rides in the car. How do you think the vibration, noise and other environmental conditions of flying (think of taking off and landing; think of being in cargo with nobody to calm the puppy) will affect the puppy?

I have a friend that flew a couple of hours to pick up their young puppy and she came home in a pet-airline bag at their feet in the passenger section. I would have to choose that rather than allow the puppy to fly with the cargo. You need to study various airlines and see which ones allow a puppy in the passenger section so that you can go get the puppy.

Cyndi


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I've had multiple dogs shipped to me with no problems. The Malt pups were all 4 months.


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## SpringHasSprung (May 4, 2007)

I would never put a pet in cargo under any circumstances...but that's just me. I'm afraid to fly myself!  Just a month ago, I flew from Chicago to Texas to pick up my Summer. I have frequently flown with my pets in their "under the seat" bags and they seem to like it and get all excited to "get in the bag".

Anyway, I have learned so much here and I wouldn't be looking at any breeder without an a-ok from this group of knowledgeable people. There are ALOT of good "fakesters" out there and they are good at their trade. Just be very careful!


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## myliddlelove (Jul 23, 2008)

QUOTE (jlhajmom @ Jul 21 2008, 08:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=609008


> Just because someone is on the AMA list does not mean he or she is a good breeder.
> I assumed so and it has cost me an incredible amount of money to take care of my little Ava. Just because someone is on the AMA list does not mean he or she is following the code of ethics. Make sure you ask the right questions and if the breeder is not testing bile acids on the parents before breeding and not testing the bile acids on the puppies you want to run in the other direction. Insist on a written health guarantee. The best breeders offer them.[/B]


I agree with this. I followed this advise ,twice in 10 years and bought from the big names in maltese ,both AMA. Both are dead from heart and liver shunt problems. I'm searching again, and this time I'll know the breeder when I find them, not because they belong to a certain group. My brother got his from an AMA person too in OH, and said he only did because he felt sorry for the puppy in the deplorable conditions. Too much emphasis is put on that club thing, and not enough on the actual breeder and his/her breeding habits. I've learnt a lot over the last 10 years, about how to recognise a good breeder,and it isn't by the number of titles. I think that's just another selling gimmick in some instances. If I sound bitter, it's because I am, but I joined so I could learn even more then I already have.Just my opinion and I'm knew so what the heck. Lane


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

I do want to add as Mary H, other members here on SM have been stating, and as Dr Center explained to me today. It is best that a puppy be tested for liver shunt at 16 weeks, not 12. The organs are not completely developed at 12 weeks so they can give a false negative. I hope that breeders all start following this 16 week rule.


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## mcclynn1 (Jul 6, 2008)

QUOTE (Clabec Maltese @ Jul 23 2008, 10:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610139


> I do want to add as Mary H, other members here on SM have been stating, and as Dr Center explained to me today. It is best that a puppy be tested for liver shunt at 16 weeks, not 12. The organs are not completely developed at 12 weeks so they can give a false negative. I hope that breeders all start following this 16 week rule.[/B]


So if this is the case, then we can expect to not be able to buy our puppies until they're 16 weeks or older, instead of 12 ? Because otherwise, what does that mean,for any of us that get pups and then they get tested. Who pays for it, and what about how we give them back to the breeder or fix them, who pays for that. Guess better safe then sorry but I sure hope I can get my pup before 4 months of age.


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

QUOTE (mcclynn1 @ Jul 24 2008, 03:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610404


> QUOTE (Clabec Maltese @ Jul 23 2008, 10:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610139





> I do want to add as Mary H, other members here on SM have been stating, and as Dr Center explained to me today. It is best that a puppy be tested for liver shunt at 16 weeks, not 12. The organs are not completely developed at 12 weeks so they can give a false negative. I hope that breeders all start following this 16 week rule.[/B]


So if this is the case, then we can expect to not be able to buy our puppies until they're 16 weeks or older, instead of 12 ? Because otherwise, what does that mean,for any of us that get pups and then they get tested. Who pays for it, and what about how we give them back to the breeder or fix them, who pays for that. Guess better safe then sorry but I sure hope I can get my pup before 4 months of age.
[/B][/QUOTE]
All I can go on is what Dr Center herself told me. I will NOT be letting any of my babies leave my nest before 16 weeks of age due to the test. And I am sure that any reputable/responsible breeder once they find this out will do the same. It does take time for breeders to find things out though. And as stated this is all fairly new study. I truly feel blessed to be in contact with Dr Center I am able to be proactive in my program. 

I pay for the test to be done on my babies. Because I feel it is my place. I am testing my lines and making sure that I am producing healthy puppies. Not only the puppy for the new owner. But this is me. Not all breeders will feel this way. And there is no wrong way about this. As long as the dog/puppy is being tested.


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## mcclynn1 (Jul 6, 2008)

QUOTE (Clabec Maltese @ Jul 24 2008, 05:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610470


> QUOTE (mcclynn1 @ Jul 24 2008, 03:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610404





> QUOTE (Clabec Maltese @ Jul 23 2008, 10:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610139





> I do want to add as Mary H, other members here on SM have been stating, and as Dr Center explained to me today. It is best that a puppy be tested for liver shunt at 16 weeks, not 12. The organs are not completely developed at 12 weeks so they can give a false negative. I hope that breeders all start following this 16 week rule.[/B]


So if this is the case, then we can expect to not be able to buy our puppies until they're 16 weeks or older, instead of 12 ? Because otherwise, what does that mean,for any of us that get pups and then they get tested. Who pays for it, and what about how we give them back to the breeder or fix them, who pays for that. Guess better safe then sorry but I sure hope I can get my pup before 4 months of age.
[/B][/QUOTE]
All I can go on is what Dr Center herself told me. I will NOT be letting any of my babies leave my nest before 16 weeks of age due to the test. And I am sure that any reputable/responsible breeder once they find this out will do the same. It does take time for breeders to find things out though. And as stated this is all fairly new study. I truly feel blessed to be in contact with Dr Center I am able to be proactive in my program. 

I pay for the test to be done on my babies. Because I feel it is my place. I am testing my lines and making sure that I am producing healthy puppies. Not only the puppy for the new owner. But this is me. Not all breeders will feel this way. And there is no wrong way about this. As long as the dog/puppy is being tested.
[/B][/QUOTE]

So really though it's 17 or 18 weeks ? Everything I red says that there's a couple days after the tests. And so, like, on the 15 weeks + 6 days, the test may be bad, but on the 16 weeks exact day they can be tested and the test will be real? I know that sounds argumentative, and I don't mean it to, I'm just trying to understand. if baby A is born on a monday, the test can't be done until 16 weeks to the monday, + a day, and a couple days for results. Then we have to make our reservations and take off time work. Phewww getting complicated to get a puppy. Don't you guys who are breeders think you're kind of putting yourself out of business and making people go to less stringent breeders that test the parents and stuff ? The breeders that I'm talking to,1 says she's tested the parents of hers for 5 or 6 generations. My parents too always said that the 12-16 week area of the puppys life are the bonding,formative weeks. Oh and what will happen to all the puppys who's acid tests are wrong ? Is everyone going to fix them and keep them. I don't think I see that happening , but I'm a pet person. Just that it interests me.


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

QUOTE (mcclynn1 @ Jul 24 2008, 07:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610519


> QUOTE (Clabec Maltese @ Jul 24 2008, 05:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610470





> QUOTE (mcclynn1 @ Jul 24 2008, 03:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610404





> QUOTE (Clabec Maltese @ Jul 23 2008, 10:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610139





> I do want to add as Mary H, other members here on SM have been stating, and as Dr Center explained to me today. It is best that a puppy be tested for liver shunt at 16 weeks, not 12. The organs are not completely developed at 12 weeks so they can give a false negative. I hope that breeders all start following this 16 week rule.[/B]


So if this is the case, then we can expect to not be able to buy our puppies until they're 16 weeks or older, instead of 12 ? Because otherwise, what does that mean,for any of us that get pups and then they get tested. Who pays for it, and what about how we give them back to the breeder or fix them, who pays for that. Guess better safe then sorry but I sure hope I can get my pup before 4 months of age.
[/B][/QUOTE]
All I can go on is what Dr Center herself told me. I will NOT be letting any of my babies leave my nest before 16 weeks of age due to the test. And I am sure that any reputable/responsible breeder once they find this out will do the same. It does take time for breeders to find things out though. And as stated this is all fairly new study. I truly feel blessed to be in contact with Dr Center I am able to be proactive in my program. 

I pay for the test to be done on my babies. Because I feel it is my place. I am testing my lines and making sure that I am producing healthy puppies. Not only the puppy for the new owner. But this is me. Not all breeders will feel this way. And there is no wrong way about this. As long as the dog/puppy is being tested.
[/B][/QUOTE]

So really though it's 17 or 18 weeks ? Everything I red says that there's a couple days after the tests. And so, like, on the 15 weeks + 6 days, the test may be bad, but on the 16 weeks exact day they can be tested and the test will be real? I know that sounds argumentative, and I don't mean it to, I'm just trying to understand. if baby A is born on a monday, the test can't be done until 16 weeks to the monday, + a day, and a couple days for results. Then we have to make our reservations and take off time work. Phewww getting complicated to get a puppy. Don't you guys who are breeders think you're kind of putting yourself out of business and making people go to less stringent breeders that test the parents and stuff ? The breeders that I'm talking to,1 says she's tested the parents of hers for 5 or 6 generations. My parents too always said that the 12-16 week area of the puppys life are the bonding,formative weeks. Oh and what will happen to all the puppys who's acid tests are wrong ? Is everyone going to fix them and keep them. I don't think I see that happening , but I'm a pet person. Just that it interests me.
[/B][/QUOTE]
It takes aprox 18 weeks for the organs to work properly to be able to determine that the test is accurate. I hit a 6 instead of 8 awhile ago. That was suppose to be 18 weeks. Sorry for the typo.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

QUOTE (mcclynn1 @ Jul 24 2008, 08:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610519


> So really though it's 17 or 18 weeks ? Everything I red says that there's a couple days after the tests. And so, like, on the 15 weeks + 6 days, the test may be bad, but on the 16 weeks exact day they can be tested and the test will be real? I know that sounds argumentative, and I don't mean it to, I'm just trying to understand. if baby A is born on a monday, the test can't be done until 16 weeks to the monday, + a day, and a couple days for results. Then we have to make our reservations and take off time work. Phewww getting complicated to get a puppy. Don't you guys who are breeders think you're kind of putting yourself out of business and making people go to less stringent breeders that test the parents and stuff ? The breeders that I'm talking to,1 says she's tested the parents of hers for 5 or 6 generations. My parents too always said that the 12-16 week area of the puppys life are the bonding,formative weeks. Oh and what will happen to all the puppys who's acid tests are wrong ? Is everyone going to fix them and keep them. I don't think I see that happening , but I'm a pet person. Just that it interests me.[/B]



Nothing is an exact science but if Dr. Center say's after 18 weeks is the best time then they should tested after that time frame. I rather buy a pup that has been tested then one who has not. I'm speaking out of experience having had a dog with a shunt. I think a full disclosure if a pup is found to have MVD or a shunt should be given to the prospective owner it's up to the person if they are willing to take the dog and make themselves responsible for the extra care the dog will need. I don't see breeders keeping all of the dogs who come back positive.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

A large percentage of Maltese (70-80% perhaps) have MVD which will cause elevated bile acids but the pups are perfectly healthy, happy pets. With rather high results, a second blood test can be run to rule out a shunt. 

You have your choice - take the pup early and do the test yourself OR wait. I have purchased multiple pups over 4 months of age and they've all adjusted beautifully. If you purchase without a test, be clear in writing with the breeder what the plan will be if the pup is suspected of a shunt (return, replacement, refund).


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## mcclynn1 (Jul 6, 2008)

QUOTE (JMM @ Jul 24 2008, 06:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610522


> A large percentage of Maltese (70-80% perhaps) have MVD which will cause elevated bile acids but the pups are perfectly healthy, happy pets. With rather high results, a second blood test can be run to rule out a shunt.
> 
> You have your choice - take the pup early and do the test yourself OR wait. I have purchased multiple pups over 4 months of age and they've all adjusted beautifully. If you purchase without a test, be clear in writing with the breeder what the plan will be if the pup is suspected of a shunt (return, replacement, refund).[/B]


Yes that makes sense, and my family has been on both sides, healthy dogs for me and sick dogs, including the shunt thing for a family memeber, but I don't remember anything about if there were tests back then or if the dog got them. Thanks for the explanation.


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

QUOTE (Clabec Maltese @ Jul 24 2008, 08:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610520


> QUOTE (mcclynn1 @ Jul 24 2008, 07:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610519





> QUOTE (Clabec Maltese @ Jul 24 2008, 05:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610470





> QUOTE (mcclynn1 @ Jul 24 2008, 03:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610404





> QUOTE (Clabec Maltese @ Jul 23 2008, 10:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610139





> I do want to add as Mary H, other members here on SM have been stating, and as Dr Center explained to me today. It is best that a puppy be tested for liver shunt at 16 weeks, not 12. The organs are not completely developed at 12 weeks so they can give a false negative. I hope that breeders all start following this 16 week rule.[/B]


So if this is the case, then we can expect to not be able to buy our puppies until they're 16 weeks or older, instead of 12 ? Because otherwise, what does that mean,for any of us that get pups and then they get tested. Who pays for it, and what about how we give them back to the breeder or fix them, who pays for that. Guess better safe then sorry but I sure hope I can get my pup before 4 months of age.
[/B][/QUOTE]
All I can go on is what Dr Center herself told me. I will NOT be letting any of my babies leave my nest before 16 weeks of age due to the test. And I am sure that any reputable/responsible breeder once they find this out will do the same. It does take time for breeders to find things out though. And as stated this is all fairly new study. I truly feel blessed to be in contact with Dr Center I am able to be proactive in my program. 

I pay for the test to be done on my babies. Because I feel it is my place. I am testing my lines and making sure that I am producing healthy puppies. Not only the puppy for the new owner. But this is me. Not all breeders will feel this way. And there is no wrong way about this. As long as the dog/puppy is being tested.
[/B][/QUOTE]

So really though it's 17 or 18 weeks ? Everything I red says that there's a couple days after the tests. And so, like, on the 15 weeks + 6 days, the test may be bad, but on the 16 weeks exact day they can be tested and the test will be real? I know that sounds argumentative, and I don't mean it to, I'm just trying to understand. if baby A is born on a monday, the test can't be done until 16 weeks to the monday, + a day, and a couple days for results. Then we have to make our reservations and take off time work. Phewww getting complicated to get a puppy. Don't you guys who are breeders think you're kind of putting yourself out of business and making people go to less stringent breeders that test the parents and stuff ? The breeders that I'm talking to,1 says she's tested the parents of hers for 5 or 6 generations. My parents too always said that the 12-16 week area of the puppys life are the bonding,formative weeks. Oh and what will happen to all the puppys who's acid tests are wrong ? Is everyone going to fix them and keep them. I don't think I see that happening , but I'm a pet person. Just that it interests me.
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It takes aprox 18 weeks for the organs to work properly to be able to determine that the test is accurate. I hit a 6 instead of 8 awhile ago. That was suppose to be 18 weeks. Sorry for the typo.
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QUOTE (LuvMyFurbaby @ Jul 24 2008, 08:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610521


> QUOTE (mcclynn1 @ Jul 24 2008, 08:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=610519





> So really though it's 17 or 18 weeks ? Everything I red says that there's a couple days after the tests. And so, like, on the 15 weeks + 6 days, the test may be bad, but on the 16 weeks exact day they can be tested and the test will be real? I know that sounds argumentative, and I don't mean it to, I'm just trying to understand. if baby A is born on a monday, the test can't be done until 16 weeks to the monday, + a day, and a couple days for results. Then we have to make our reservations and take off time work. Phewww getting complicated to get a puppy. Don't you guys who are breeders think you're kind of putting yourself out of business and making people go to less stringent breeders that test the parents and stuff ? The breeders that I'm talking to,1 says she's tested the parents of hers for 5 or 6 generations. My parents too always said that the 12-16 week area of the puppys life are the bonding,formative weeks. Oh and what will happen to all the puppys who's acid tests are wrong ? Is everyone going to fix them and keep them. I don't think I see that happening , but I'm a pet person. Just that it interests me.[/B]



Nothing is an exact science but if Dr. Center say's after 18 weeks is the best time then they should tested after that time frame. I rather buy a pup that has been tested then one who has not. I'm speaking out of experience having had a dog with a shunt. I think a full disclosure if a pup is found to have MVD or a shunt should be given to the prospective owner it's up to the person if they are willing to take the dog and make themselves responsible for the extra care the dog will need. I don't see breeders keeping all of the dogs who come back positive.
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mcclynn1, I am sorry for my typo with the 18 weeks yesterday. I had been going on no sleep. I did not mean to confuse you. It is 4 months that is best to test the puppies not 18 weeks. Dr Center also stated that she would truly like for the pups to wait until they are 6 months but she is able to rely on the 4 months mark. 

As far as your puppy being able to adjust and being a loving part of the family, every puppy that I have sold over this age I get wonder reports of. Just yesterday I got one that a boy that I had placed was the most well adjusted, fearless puppy that they had ever seen. That he never cried in his crate, or after he left me at night out of fear, and that he is the most loving baby she has ever gotten. This is not the first time that a client has told me this. So please, please do not worry about your baby not adjusting if you wait. It is in your families best interest to do so.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I got Nikki at 18 weeks and was fine right from the start and still doing great.


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

I got Stewie at 6 months and we have bonded perfectly (my husband is jealous).


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## gizzy's mom (Jun 3, 2008)

I agree. Gizzy was 8 weeks I think when my husband got him for me. Unknowing at that time a malt should be at least 12 weeks. Toby was 18 weeks and huge difference in the way he is. In fact all the pups I have gotten have been 6-8 weeks. If the puppy is handled by the breeder and not just stuck in a cage I think that makes all the difference in the world.


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