# discuss the 02/19 announcement listed in all forum



## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

Hello, everyone, as some of you know I have added a banner at the top of the forums to help the site make a little money to pay for the hosting as we grow. The current choice is not very profitable and the profitable choice (google adsense) serves ads to puppy mills/brokers.

I have found that google allows you to ban offensive ads from serving on pages as ads. I have decided to give adsense another try since realizing this, however this means I will need a little help weeding out the ads that shouldnt be servered, I hope also by doing this maybe google will see which sites are being banned and realize they are wrong, but who knows. Anyway, I will need anyone who can to do the following...

When you see an offending ad do the following and PM it to me or place it in the "news and Announcements" thread I will creat for this purpose, this is how to do it...



> The full destination URL of each ad is contained within the link properties. You can look at the code of the link to find the destination URL:
> 
> Right-click on the ad title and select either Copy Shortcut (IE) or Copy Link Location (Netscape).
> Open a text editor, such as Notepad, and paste the selection into the text editor. To paste, select Paste from the text editor's Edit menu.
> ...


this also means that the ads will display until I get the web addresses added into the filter list, so first: please do the above if possible and second: please allow me some time to clean them up, I do not support puppy mills/brokers and I never will, please know that in case one gets thru before anyone or myself catches it

if this becomes a problem and my plan doesnt work I will once again remove it, if anyone has any questions, objections or suggestions please feel free to post them or PM me

ALSO, i would like to thank those who have already contributed to the site (you know who you are) to help me maintain the hosting for the site

Thanks,
Joe


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

Hi Joe!!!

I'd be happy to keep an eye out for you as I'm sure everyone else will too!!!! You're always looking out for us, so it's really the least that we could do for you!


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## 020202 (Jan 26, 2005)

I'll be happy to be on the lookout. Since I'm on the board a dozen or more times a day, it should be really easy. Thanks so much JOE, _not Jim_, for this great board.


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

these are the ones i have added so far...

foxmillpets.com
netmeans.com
puppyfind.com
puppypetite.com
shopping.com


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

please realize per googles website...



> and changes will take effect within a few hours[/B]


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Here's few more:

http://maltesebyvictoria.com

http://shopping.yahoo.com/search%3B_ylc%3D...Dmaltese%2Bdogs

http://www.ramacreskennel.com

http://www.hypernexussolutions.com/click.php%3Fl%3D185834


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom_@Feb 20 2005, 09:23 AM
> *Here's few more:
> 
> http://maltesebyvictoria.com*


she just seems to be a breeder, not a mill or broker, am i missing something?


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> foxmillpets.com
> happypawskennel.com
> louiecorp.com
> netmeans.com
> ...


and more pending


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Joe+Feb 20 2005, 09:38 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/B][/QUOTE]

I had not checked out the site... I just now did and it seems to be totally on the "up and up". I guess the "teaser" headline in some way made me think she was a large volume breeder selling over the Internet....


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Joe, here are a couple more..... appear to be brokers....

http://findmyperfectpuppy.com

http://www.thepuppycorner.com


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Joe+Feb 20 2005, 09:38 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/B][/QUOTE]

She looks fine to me too!


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> findmyperfectpuppy.com
> foxmillpets.com
> happypawskennel.com
> louiecorp.com
> ...


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AmMprn3CX8Lfx...Gx0AzAEc2VjA3Ny

This is Divapups url as found in the Google ads.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagea...599502402132679

Here is another one


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Not sure about this.... seems like some sort of broker... selling lots of "teacup" Maltese.... Joe, check it out and whatever you think is A-OK with me.....

http://www.nextdaypets.com


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

Here's another one: http://puppydogweb.com/caninebreeds/ads/maltese.htm

Edit: Here is a second one. When you go to the page there are links to other sites that are selling puppies.
http://www1.pricetool.com/xGS-maltese_for_...nkin_id-3064940


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> findmyperfectpuppy.com
> foxmillpets.com
> happypawskennel.com
> louiecorp.com
> ...


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## Brit'sMom (Aug 18, 2004)

Hi JOE, I was wondering if there is any way you can make it to where if you click on a link on the ads it opens a new window instead of changing this site to the next site.

I have found some of the ads to be useful, but I still want to be here on sm!

Thanks


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Brit'sMom_@Feb 21 2005, 11:00 PM
> *Hi JOE, I was wondering if there is any way you can make it to where if you click on a link on the ads it opens a new window instead of changing this site to the next site.
> 
> I have found some of the ads to be useful, but I still want to be here on sm!
> ...


[/QUOTE]


good question, i have wondered the same thing, i will check into it


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

http://www.anibid.com/

this one is horrible they are auctioning animals!


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> anibid.com
> findmyperfectpuppy.com
> foxmillpets.com
> happypawskennel.com
> ...


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

Oh, that anibid.com site is truly awful! One dog seller has Malti-poos, French Bulldogs and one other breed. There is NO feedback on the seller whatsoever.

Then there is a min-pin female with a $1 minimum bid! $1!!!!!! This is the horrible, dark side of the internet, I'm afraid.


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## ilove_d&m (Apr 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Joe+Feb 21 2005, 11:06 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



good question, i have wondered the same thing, i will check into it
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36827
[/B][/QUOTE]


If you right click on the link it should give you an option to" open link in new window" and just click on it. hope it makes sense


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ilove_d&m+Feb 22 2005, 06:05 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]


If you right click on the link it should give you an option to" open link in new window" and just click on it. hope it makes sense 
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=37068
[/B][/QUOTE]

I imagine it can be set up to automatically open a new window such as when you're in Google and click on a link and then close out... you're back at Google. With these links if you close out.... you're out! And have to go back to SM.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagea...s=4&u_java=true


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

This is a broker in NYC advertising puppies from a USDA breeder.

http://www.puppypetite.com/maltese.html

And here's another broker:

http://scottspuppypalace.com/

And Diva pups is still advertising.

Is there another option to this banner? Something not dog related? Even with all of us policing it, ads from millers and brokers keep popping up. 

I wonder how many people will find Spoiled Maltese and click on the ads without reading our forum and realizing that we really oppose puppy mills? 

By letting the millers and brokers support SM in this roundabout way, aren't we still supporting their industry?


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## 020202 (Jan 26, 2005)

This appears to be a german shephard puppy mill. I'm not accusing, just questioning.

german shephard site


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Feb 23 2005, 11:48 AM
> *This is a broker in NYC advertising puppies from a USDA breeder.
> 
> http://www.puppypetite.com/maltese.html
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Marj, that is something I had not thought of before. I agree that the number of new ads is making it more of a problem to police this and a guest to SM might indeed get the wrong idea. I've gotten to the point of just not even looking at the ads.. I just don't have time to check each one out and make sure it hasn't already been submitted, etc. 

It would indeed be best if no dog sites were served up as most are likely going to be commercial enterprises.


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

Te reason Joe went back to this advertising instead of another form is because this type gives more money. The other kind wasn't generating as much money. I really don't notice the ads and to be honest I don't notice them when they are on other sites. I am sure others might but with all the ads on all the web pages now, we just start to block them out. I do have to admit that I looked at the sites everyone posted here and they are pretty bad but I fell in love with two dogs.



















Now I want another puppy. It seems like it's been so long since Fantasia was a puppy. Those two are the cutest puppies I have ever seen! They look like little stuffed animals! I wish breeders weren't so expensive. 
John and I have decided to look for a house in about 6 months and hopefully be moved out of here and into our house 5 months after that. That means we can get another dog! But the deal was that John gets to pick the next breed and dog so I guess I will have to wait even longer for my other Maltese.









Anyway back to the topic. 
Joe maybe you can put a disclaimer above the advertising. Say something along the lines of we don't support puppy mills and online brokers or backyard breeders. blah, blah, blah...Then says something like the views of the adds are not necessarily the views of Spoiled Maltese. 
Just a thought. I would hate for you to lose out on the money that these ads are generating just on the off chance that a guest will click on them and support a puppy mill by buying from them.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by FannyMay_@Feb 23 2005, 02:11 PM
> *Joe maybe you can put a disclaimer above the advertising.  Say something along the lines of we don't support puppy mills and online brokers or backyard breeders.  blah, blah, blah...Then says something like the views of the adds are not necessarily the views of Spoiled Maltese.
> Just a thought.  I would hate for you to lose out on the money that these ads are generating just on the off chance that a guest will click on them and support a puppy mill by buying from them.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=37223*


[/QUOTE]

Putting a disclaimer above or below the ads is a great idea, Fanny May!!


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by FannyMay_@Feb 23 2005, 01:11 PM
> *Te reason Joe went back to this advertising instead of another form is because this type gives more money.  The other kind wasn't generating as much money.  I really don't notice the ads and to be honest I don't notice them when they are on other sites.  I am sure others might but with all the ads on all the web pages now, we just start to block them out.  I do have to admit that I looked at the sites everyone posted here and they are pretty bad but I fell in love with two dogs.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
I agree with you, I don't pay attention to the ads at all. I just go straight to new topics







. How exciting it must be to buy a house!







Good luck!


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

Oh my gosh!!! Those puppies are SO cute! Expecially the first one!!!!









I agree the disclaimer is a good idea! 
I don't pay attention to the ads either myself...but some might...


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

I like the disclaimer idea but i may scrap it all together i dont know, just trying to offset some costs if i can  

current list...



> anibid.com
> findmyperfectpuppy.com
> foxmillpets.com
> happypawskennel.com
> ...


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## 020202 (Jan 26, 2005)

bid on ebay for maltese pups


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Joe_@Feb 23 2005, 08:36 PM
> *I like the disclaimer idea but i may scrap it all together i dont know, just trying to offset some costs if i can  *



Just out of curiosity..what is the ballpark figure of income/costs that you need? I don't have a CLUE! I would probably be WAY off if I even ventured a guess..


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

http://www.divapup.com/puppiesm.asp


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Feb 24 2005, 07:20 AM
> *Is there any way to have JUST advertisements for sites that sell things like dog accessories, carriers, clothes, etc?  You could certainly guarantee that the shopping-mad crowd here would be checking them out.  (am including myself in the shopping-mad crowd)  For one thing, it'd be great to have my credit card exposed to new sites.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

That is an excellent idea. With the way we feed each other's shopping frenzy and recommend products, advertisements for dog accessories would be wonderful and profitable for the advertisers.

I may be the exception here, but I am very troubled by the banner ads for puppy mills and brokers. Personally, a disclaimer isn't sufficent to me as the ads are still a part of spoiled maltese now. So many of our new members come here before they get a puppy, I am afraid they will click on these ads and decide to purchase one from Divapups or another one of the brokers who advertise here.

As a matter of principle, I will not buy so much as a chew toy from a pet shop that sells live animals. To me, this is a similar situation. I cannot reconcile being part of something that indirectly supports an industry that thrives on the exploitation of animals. I hope that something can be worked out so that these particular ads are not part of SM.


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

I totally agree with Lady's Mom. When I read this thread yesterday and after seeing the incredible number of puppymill/broker ads I just can't reconcile this site's philosphy with the ads. It seems that we speak with forked tongue, especially to a newcomer to the forum.

At the same time, having worked in telecommunications, I am well aware of the expenses involved in having a site such as this. Equipment, electricity, rack space, internet pipes, etc. all add up to bucks. 

Someone has to say it: So what kind of membership fee would everyone be willing to pay to keep this site free of taint by advertising of puppymill/brokers? There are 500+ members and I'm sure we'd lose a few who would defect to other forums but I strongly believe in this forum and the members on it......we have developed such a bond among us and sense of etiquette and civilized behaviour as well as broad range of experiences and skills and knowledge that I am willing to consider a fee arrangement.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Also, one of the problems with our trying to police this ourselves and submit URLs for removal is this: Most of us are pretty familiar with the Maltese brokers and mills such as Diva Pup and can easily submit the URL for removal. However, now there are ads appearing for a variety of breeds and it takes time to peruse these sites and figure out if they are truly responsible breeders or brokers or mills. I'm afraid that we will become complacent and the ads will end up continuing.....

Perhaps a compromise is that all banners for all sites selling animals of any kind are removed, even if some legitimate sites get removed in the process.


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

Another idea......in the Breeders section of this web site (not the Forum Breeders subject section) there are brokers/puppymills getting FREE ads from Joe. Like "Teacup Puppies" in Florida which was the subject of a recent article in the Miami Herald promoting their tiny dogs. Why not sell those ads? That way Joe can screen them prior to accepting the ad and minimize the advertising for puppymills and brokers.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@Feb 24 2005, 11:16 AM
> *Another idea......in the Breeders section of this web site (not the Forum Breeders subject section) there are brokers/puppymills getting FREE ads from Joe.  Like "Teacup Puppies" in Florida which was the subject of a recent article in the Miami Herald promoting their tiny dogs.  Why not sell those ads?  That way Joe can screen them prior to accepting the ad and minimize the advertising for puppymills and brokers.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=37416*


[/QUOTE]

The system Joe is using now is easy for him to manage because Google handles it. If he were to sell ads himself, he'd have a full time job trying to contact potential advertisers, sell the space, collect payment, re-new, etc. And these businesses would be judging success not just by clicks but by "conversion". So if enough sales weren't generated, they'd bail after the trial period. 

And I don't believe there are enough "eye balls" on this site to warrant lots of interest from companies in buying banner ads. It's all in the numbers and if you get a 1-2% conversion, you're lucky, but you need huge numbers to start with......

It is an interesting idea...but it takes quite a bit of work and lots of banner ads to bring in any kind of revenue.....


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@Feb 24 2005, 11:16 AM
> *Another idea......in the Breeders section of this web site (not the Forum Breeders subject section) there are brokers/puppymills getting FREE ads from Joe.  Like "Teacup Puppies" in Florida which was the subject of a recent article in the Miami Herald promoting their tiny dogs.   Why not sell those ads?  That way Joe can screen them prior to accepting the ad and minimize the advertising for puppymills and brokers.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=37416*


[/QUOTE]

That is an excellent idea!

There is an awful link up there now http://www.petloop.com/.

Not only does it advertise animals, you can register your dog in the breeder/stud service registry so you can arrange breeding. Ugh!


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tlunn_@Feb 24 2005, 06:53 AM
> *Just out of curiosity..what is the ballpark figure of income/costs that you need?*


i pay 149.00 per month for a server to host this site and one other



> Is there any way to have JUST advertisements for sites that sell things like dog accessories, carriers, clothes, etc?[/B]


there is but its not profitable as it would be based off sales, not clicks, you can get an idea of the kind of small banners i could use at the bottom of http://spoiledmaltese.com/dogshop.html



> Perhaps a compromise is that all banners for all sites selling animals of any kind are removed, even if some legitimate sites get removed in the process.[/B]


thats a good idea


in the long run if the google thing is causing more problems i will remove it, i would like to give it a chance, i'm not running this site to make money, i never will, but if there are ways to help recoup costs i'd like to explore them, i am not keen on charging a "member" fee as it turns away many good posters, on one of my other sites I have the option of a "member upgrade" for a fee where a paying member gets more PM space, a bigger avatar, the abilty to directly post pictures, custom titles under their name, etc, maybe that would work, I also use "donation" buttons thru paypal for those who want to donate or as a few here have done sent donations via the mail, just thinking out loud right now, dont mind me









here is the current banned list...



> anibid.com
> divapup.com
> findmyperfectpuppy.com
> foxmillpets.com
> ...


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

Yeah, I would have been WAY off if I had ventured a cost guess! That is more reasonable than I thought...but I/we get SO much out of this site, I hate for you to carry all the cost...I wouldn't mind the member upgrade thing if that would help out...I also don't mind donating some...either way works for me if the ads are more trouble...


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

sure i'll like to donate some money too and the membership upgrade sounds good too


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## Sunshine (Aug 20, 2004)

So you pretty much need $75 a month for this site, or $900 a year??

Maybe we could all just band together and donate toward the site... or like you guys said - a membership fee... I'd certainly pay it! 

And what about the idea raised a while ago - the calendar? We could do all sorts of merchandise - notebooks, calendars, magnets... anything really... and I know that I'd be buying a heap of stuff!!! 

It's just a thought. I agree that the onus shouldn't be on you Joe. We are all part of this site and I am fairly sure that we would be willing to contribute to the costs associated!


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## Sunshine (Aug 20, 2004)

I just looked and we have 529 current members - that means that to raise the $900 per year for hosting of the site, we would each only have to pay $1.70 roughly! That's NOTHING! 

Even if only half of the people wanted to sign up under the new membership it still wouldn't cost more than $5 each! (250 members = $3.60 each)

If you made the membership between $5 - $10 then it would easily cover the costs, plus any other incidental expenses you incur as a result of running the site for us...?? 

I'm not sure about everyone else, but to me it would be worth the $10 and I'd pay it in a heartbeat!!!!!!!!!


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

Joe, Does allowing the member upgrade (larger avatar and PM etc) end up costing YOU more money again?


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

If $5 or $10 per year would get rid of those banner ads, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

However, even though there are 500+ members, there are only a small number of us who post regularly... I'm guessing as many as 50 post on a somewhat regular basis.. Not sure if this is enough $ to make a dent in the yearly expenses.... ?

Perhaps a combination of a membership upgrade fee and selling calendars could help ?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I know the diabetic forum that I post to requests a donation of a couple dollars a month from people who post there. It's optional, but I think most people are aware that there aren't too many things for free in this world! 

Speaking frankly, if someone can afford the cost of a Maltese plus all the clothes, grooming products, carriers, etc. we are always buying, they can afford a few dollars a month to particpate in this forum.

You mentioned being concerned about a fee scaring good posters away. I think that ads for puppy mills and brokers here will prevent more people from posting here than a donation to keep the forum going will. I personally am "hanging in there" until this is resolved, but as a matter of principle will no longer post here if SM continues to provide a place for millers and brokers to advertise. 

Can you post the information to make a donation through Paypal? Perhaps it can be permanently pinned somewhere with an explanation about the cost of running a forum like this?


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

I don't have an issue with paying a membership fee, either. I disagree with Lady's Mom for the first time ever!







I do have an expensive Maltese but he was given to me by a family who couldn't give him the attention he needed, I was subsequently laid off of two jobs in one year and we are struggling with a travel-related company that was started 3 months before 9/11 when hotels emptied out, travel took a sharp nose-dive and the economy went south as well.

So, every expenditure for us is examined critically for need vs. want. SM falls into the need category so would qualify for inclusion in our budget.

At the same time I believe that the philosphy of this site against unscrupulous and ignorant breeding of pets does a real service to not just the Maltese breed but all breeds, including the fence-jumper breeds and other cross-bred dogs. Thus, the "lurkers" who do not post or post rarely are still being educated and informed about this issue and I would not want to exclude them.

So! A membership fee to post, nothing to lurk. I know, that means a few of us will foot the bill for lurkers to benefit but isn't the goal to benefit furbabies? And won't educating and informing the general public accomplish that goal? AND we will belong to a very exclusive group, too!


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

I like the membership "upgrade" idea the best...that way it is TOTALLY optional...most of us would do it anyway, but it is not going to exclude anyone or scare them away in the process...does that make sense?


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn_@Feb 25 2005, 10:54 AM
> *I like the membership "upgrade" idea the best...that way it is TOTALLY optional...most of us would do it anyway, but it is not going to exclude anyone or scare them away in the process...does that make sense?
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I like it, too!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

An optional donation, not a fee, is what I prefer. That's what they do on the diabetic forum. That way no one is obligated to pay if they can't (or don't want to).

I hear ya, Pico's Mom! Lady was also a "free" Maltese, a rescue. The point I was trying to make was that I think all of us could afford say, $3 a month.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Feb 25 2005, 11:18 AM
> *An optional donation, not a fee, is what I prefer. That's what they do on the diabetic forum. That way no one is obligated to pay if they can't (or don't want to).
> 
> I hear ya, Pico's Mom! Lady was also a "free" Maltese, a rescue. The point I was trying to make was that I think all of us could afford say, $3 a month.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=37694*


[/QUOTE]


The membership upgrade would be optional and it sounds like we would get a few perks out of it too...


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagea...bRfsoUfQrzRGLm-


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

ok, bad experiment over with now







the big middle ad will pay per click and the little ads to the left will pay a commission if a sale is made after its been clicked on, both are very safe and trusted


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Joe_@Feb 25 2005, 08:00 PM
> *ok, bad experiment over with now
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Just to let everryone know i buy from the Only Natural pet site all the time.Its a great site....Sheila


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by sheila2182+Feb 25 2005, 08:21 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just to let everryone know i buy from the Only Natural pet site all the time.Its a great site....Sheila
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=37877
[/B][/QUOTE]

Sheila, next time you place an order, click from their SM ad and Joe will get some $$ out of it!


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Feb 25 2005, 08:24 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]

Sheila, next time you place an order, click from their SM ad and Joe will get some $$ out of it!








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=37880
[/B][/QUOTE]


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