# Opinion on Rabies shot



## iLoveMisty (Apr 27, 2013)

Ok, so my baby is 4months, and I took her in for her bordatella shot today , and my vet said it was time for her rabies shot. I asked him if she was too young, and he said 4months is perfect for the rabies shot. He gave me an appointment for Wednesday. I know many of you might have different opinions , I have read online that many wait till 6months to get their rabies shot. Is it because of where I live?? Spay and neuter is free here also (which I am already looking into, don't wanna have an accident with my baby) 

Any suggestions? Or am I over thinking this??


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

You can never over think anything with Maltese puppy...lol... They are so small and require different protocol. I am glad your checking first. Have you read the guidelines in the (2011 vaccination recommendation) thread posted in this forum as a sticky? The info in all the stickies were invaluable guide to me with my first puppy. Good luck.
For me, I space all shots a month apart. I don't give the Lepto vacone. You have to make sure it's not a combo vaccine.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Dr. Dodds recommends rabies at 20 weeks or older if allowed by law: Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Dr. Dodds' 2012 Canine Vaccination Protocol

Some places require vaccination at 16 weeks, but if you can wait a few more weeks, that's best, especially with small dogs.


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## iLoveMisty (Apr 27, 2013)

I think it might be because of where I live. We get lots of strays and our shelters and rescues are totally full. I know it might be best to wait, but what about if its because of my area? It's not the best area , if you're curious, the name of my city is El Monte in LA county, I spend more time in my boyfriend's area, total opposite of mine, but anyways off track here lol, 


Maybe there is higher risk of her catching something?? Well, I will do more research either way, thank you for your opinions and input!!


**BTW Misty is 19weeks (today actually!)


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

maggieh said:


> Dr. Dodds recommends rabies at 20 weeks or older if allowed by law: Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Dr. Dodds' 2012 Canine Vaccination Protocol
> 
> Some places require vaccination at 16 weeks, but if you can wait a few more weeks, that's best, especially with small dogs.


Maggie-- thanks for posting that link. I noticed updated post in 2011 thread. Maybe we can change the year in the title of stickie or make newer one so folks won't think it's out dated. Unless I missed a newer one.


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## iLoveMisty (Apr 27, 2013)

Just read the blog on the vaccination protocol, my fluff is one week short from the 20week recommend for the rabies shot. Also, the first 2 times I took Misty to get her vaccines, they gave her like 5shots in one day!! I thought it was normal, but now I see it isn't o.o. my vet didn't really advice me on the vaccines, maybe he is a good vet for my boyfriends boxer, but now I'm second guessing him...


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## educ8m (May 19, 2010)

I am so glad you are doing your research. It is upsetting to me to continue to hear about all the vets who still give all the shots at one time! This indicates to me that your vet has not kept up with the research. That is a very outdated protocol. You might want to interview other vets. 

I would also HIGHLY recommend that you request a thimerisol free rabies vaccine. Thimerisol is a mercury preservative that can cause many bad reactions. Most vets will have to order it for you. You need the IMRAB 1 TF (thimerisol free-one year). When I requested it my vet said that their vaccine did not contain thimerisol. After much persistence she finally called the vaccine company and was shocked to find out that I was right. She assumed because thimerisol was not listed in the ingredients that it wasn't there. The TF vaccine will be in an individual vial and not from a larger one that several doses are drawn from. My vet now only gives all her patients the TF version. After the one year version, you will then need the IMRAB 3 TF. It is the three year version. The vet should NOT charge you extra to order the TF version or make you pay for the 10 vials he/she may have to order. 

If you can find a vet that follows the now recommended vaccination protocol, uses TF free rabies vaccines, and does not sell Science Diet dog food, you may have found a good one. Science Diet dog food contains a known cancer causing preservative, so I want a vet knowledgeable in nutrition also. For example, the first thing my vet told me was that I should feed a grain free food. Then she gave me many healthy choices.

Good luck. By the way, I waited until both of mine were eight months old to give their first rabies vaccine. Even if the area in which you live is not the greatest, your baby will never be outside without you. Mine were spayed at nine months old. You have to do whatever you think is best for your Misty.


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## iLoveMisty (Apr 27, 2013)

educ8m said:


> I am so glad you are doing your research. It is upsetting to me to continue to hear about all the vets who still give all the shots at one time! This indicates to me that your vet has not kept up with the research. That is a very outdated protocol. You might want to interview other vets.
> 
> I would also HIGHLY recommend that you request a thimerisol free rabies vaccine. Thimerisol is a mercury preservative that can cause many bad reactions. Most vets will have to order it for you. You need the IMRAB 1 TF (thimerisol free-one year). When I requested it my vet said that their vaccine did not contain thimerisol. After much persistence she finally called the vaccine company and was shocked to find out that I was right. She assumed because thimerisol was not listed in the ingredients that it wasn't there. The TF vaccine will be in an individual vial and not from a larger one that several doses are drawn from. My vet now only gives all her patients the TF version. After the one year version, you will then need the IMRAB 3 TF. It is the three year version. The vet should NOT charge you extra to order the TF version or make you pay for the 10 vials he/she may have to order.
> 
> ...






Thank you for all that info!!! I had no idea . I will probably hold on the shot and instead look for a better Vet!


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Here is a really good site with lots of info about vaccines:
Top Natural Holistic Dog Health Care Book: Multiple Award Winner

Unfortunately, lots of vets give our little dogs too many shots.
They definitely should be spaced out, not given "combo" shots like a five way or seven way shot.

Also, rabies should never be given close in time to other shots. If you can wait until she is six months, all the better. 

Personally, I try to give as few shots as possible due to the side effects. I have found sadly that you can't rely on most vets. You need to do the research and advocate for your puppy. You have to tell the vet what you want, not let the vet tell you what to do. If the vet won't listen you need to find another vet. 

You are doing the right thing by trying to learn as much as you can!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Yes, absolutely insist on the thimerasol (mercury) free rabies vaccine. There is much less chance for reaction.

You mentioned her spaying being free. I just wanted to caution you about spay/neuter clinics. Many are "bare bones" and don't offer pre op bloodwork, pain medication and use a "one size fits all" anesthesia protocol. Please read the Stickies in our Health section.

Pre op bloodwork is a must as it will tell the vet how her organs are functioning. Maltese are prone to liver disease and a healthy liver is necessary to process anesthesia.

Maltese can be sensitive to anesthesia. It is important that the vet use isoflurane.

Another stickie you must read is the one about the dangers of heating pads.

I know it's tempting to use free clinic for her spay, but please make sure it is the safest option for her.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Yes, absolutely insist on the thimerasol (mercury) free rabies vaccine. There is much less chance for reaction.
> 
> You mentioned her spaying being free. I just wanted to caution you about spay/neuter clinics. Many are "bare bones" and don't offer pre op bloodwork, pain medication and use a "one size fits all" anesthesia protocol. Please read the Stickies in our Health section.
> 
> ...


Such great points Marj!! The OP is getting great feedback from everyone.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

educ8m said:


> I am so glad you are doing your research. It is upsetting to me to continue to hear about all the vets who still give all the shots at one time! This indicates to me that your vet has not kept up with the research. That is a very outdated protocol. You might want to interview other vets.
> 
> I would also HIGHLY recommend that you request a thimerisol free rabies vaccine. Thimerisol is a mercury preservative that can cause many bad reactions. Most vets will have to order it for you. You need the IMRAB 1 TF (thimerisol free-one year). When I requested it my vet said that their vaccine did not contain thimerisol. After much persistence she finally called the vaccine company and was shocked to find out that I was right. She assumed because thimerisol was not listed in the ingredients that it wasn't there. The TF vaccine will be in an individual vial and not from a larger one that several doses are drawn from. My vet now only gives all her patients the TF version. After the one year version, you will then need the IMRAB 3 TF. It is the three year version. The vet should NOT charge you extra to order the TF version or make you pay for the 10 vials he/she may have to order.
> 
> ...


Thanks Deb for this info! My Vet says his are TF, but I'm going to run this by him again after reading your post. :thumbsup:


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

educ8m said:


> I am so glad you are doing your research. It is upsetting to me to continue to hear about all the vets who still give all the shots at one time! This indicates to me that your vet has not kept up with the research. That is a very outdated protocol. You might want to interview other vets.
> 
> I would also HIGHLY recommend that you request a thimerisol free rabies vaccine. Thimerisol is a mercury preservative that can cause many bad reactions. Most vets will have to order it for you. You need the IMRAB 1 TF (thimerisol free-one year). When I requested it my vet said that their vaccine did not contain thimerisol. After much persistence she finally called the vaccine company and was shocked to find out that I was right. She assumed because thimerisol was not listed in the ingredients that it wasn't there. The TF vaccine will be in an individual vial and not from a larger one that several doses are drawn from. My vet now only gives all her patients the TF version. After the one year version, you will then need the IMRAB 3 TF. It is the three year version. The vet should NOT charge you extra to order the TF version or make you pay for the 10 vials he/she may have to order.
> 
> ...





SammieMom said:


> Thanks Deb for this info! My Vet says his are TF, but I'm going to run this by him again after reading your post. :thumbsup:


Deb is right. That's why some vets are hesitant to use the TF rabies vaccine as it is more expensive. The IMRAB TF must be purchased in individual vials in lots of 50 so it can't be special ordered for one client. 

This is the one the vet should be using:

http://imrab.us.merial.com/imrab/PDF/IMRAB-3-TF.pdf


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## mdbflorida (Feb 28, 2013)

I made them separate mine out and space each one 3-4 weeks apart. Boo was 5 1/2 months old when he got his TF Rabies shot last week. He didn't have any reactions to any of them because I listened to anyone on here! He wasn't even sore.


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## iLoveMisty (Apr 27, 2013)

I will sure look into that! Thanks for all the great info everyone!!


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## educ8m (May 19, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Deb is right. That's why some vets are hesitant to use the TF rabies vaccine as it is more expensive. The IMRAB TF must be purchased in individual vials in lots of 50 so it can't be special ordered for one client.
> 
> This is the one the vet should be using:
> 
> http://imrab.us.merial.com/imrab/PDF/IMRAB-3-TF.pdf


Thanks for the link, Marj. Just to clarify though. The FIRST rabies vaccine should be the IMRAB 1 TF instead of the 3 TF. Lynda (Katie, Chloe, Chachi, and Gigi's mom) called her vet the other day to ask about ordering the TF rabies vaccine. He told her she would have to pay for 10 vials. Because of that she is going back to her "old" vet who ordered it last time for no extra charge.



SammieMom said:


> Thanks Deb for this info! My Vet says his are TF, but I'm going to run this by him again after reading your post. :thumbsup:


Many vets assume theirs are TF. I've had friends run into this same issue. Again, for everyone reading this: The only way the vaccine is TF is if it says TF on the label. I actually asked to see the vial before they gave Ella her vaccine. :w00t: I was nervous about asking, but they didn't bat an eye.


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## Tashulia25 (May 19, 2013)

our vet doesn't recommend rabies shout till 5 months (20 weeks) or till baby teeth change as rabies is very serious shout and Maltese is tiny thing.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

educ8m said:


> Thanks for the link, Marj. Just to clarify though. The FIRST rabies vaccine should be the IMRAB 1 TF instead of the 3 TF. Lynda (Katie, Chloe, Chachi, and Gigi's mom) called her vet the other day to ask about ordering the TF rabies vaccine. He told her she would have to pay for 10 vials. Because of that she is going back to her "old" vet who ordered it last time for no extra charge.
> 
> 
> Many vets assume theirs are TF. I've had friends run into this same issue. Again, for everyone reading this: The only way the vaccine is TF is if it says TF on the label. I actually asked to see the vial before they gave Ella her vaccine. :w00t: I was nervous about asking, but they didn't bat an eye.


Frustrating because the TF 1 & TF 3 is the same thing, just packaged differently.

Yes, my vet thought their IMRAB rabies vaccine was TF until I explained the difference. She called Merial. You can print out the sheet I posted the link to take to your vet to be sure.


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

It's not easy finding a clinic that offers the thimerosal free rabies vaccine in our area, Giovana! Centinela feed has a rotating vaccine clinic and they offer the TF rabies vaccine for $15. Just google "Centinela feed." I can't remember the site off the top of my head. This is where I'm likely going to get Owen's vaccine. Just go early and hang out for awhile after in case of a reaction. There are quite a few locations to choose from on their schedule. 

Also, this vet in Monrovia is pretty good and only carries adjuvant free vaccines as well (but, he IS more pricey). This is who I got Obi's rabies vaccine from.
Huntington Veterinary Hospital, Inc. - Monrovia, CA


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## iLoveMisty (Apr 27, 2013)

hoaloha said:


> It's not easy finding a clinic that offers the thimerosal free rabies vaccine in our area, Giovana! Centinela feed has a rotating vaccine clinic and they offer the TF rabies vaccine for $15. Just google "Centinela feed." I can't remember the site off the top of my head. This is where I'm likely going to get Owen's vaccine. Just go early and hang out for awhile after in case of a reaction. There are quite a few locations to choose from on their schedule.
> 
> Also, this vet in Monrovia is pretty good and only carries adjuvant free vaccines as well (but, he IS more pricey). This is who I got Obi's rabies vaccine from.
> Huntington Veterinary Hospital, Inc. - Monrovia, CA




Will DEFIANTLY look into it, that isnt far from where I live, thank you!


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

Good for you for doing your research, Giovanna!!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

PLEASE ask to see the vial for TF-1. Yesterday when I arrived at the vet in FL. they had a 3 yr. rabies already made up. I assumed at first it was a TF-3. When I asked to see the container they took my pet passport in the back & then came back out. The vet said "there is no T F 3 so we will give the TF-1." He then gave me the sticker for the book. I put it in and asked him to put his stamp & signature in the book. He seemed flustered. 
Is there a T F-3 yr. label (I know the vaccine is the same just labeled differently)?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

There should be a label for IMRAB TF 3 since Merial packages each vaccine separately even though they are the same.

I wonder how many vets are really stocking both the TF 1 & 3 since they are only sold in individual vials in lots of 50? The traditional rabies vaccine is much more cost effective for a clinic as the syringes can just be filled from one large vial.

This is a great reminder for everyone to check the vial before your vet administers the injection.

I am so sorry this happened, Sandi. The last thing you need is to have to re-vaccinate again next year. Did Lisel get the vaccine? No reaction, I hope!

I posted the link for TF 3 earlier, but here it is for TF 1:

http://imrab.us.merial.com/imrab/PDF/IMRAB-1-TF.pdf


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## educ8m (May 19, 2010)

edelweiss said:


> PLEASE ask to see the vial for TF-1. Yesterday when I arrived at the vet in FL. they had a 3 yr. rabies already made up. I assumed at first it was a TF-3. When I asked to see the container they took my pet passport in the back & then came back out. The vet said "there is no T F 3 so we will give the TF-1." He then gave me the sticker for the book. I put it in and asked him to put his stamp & signature in the book. He seemed flustered.
> Is there a T F-3 yr. label (I know the vaccine is the same just labeled differently)?


Sandi, what sticker are you talking about? Did he give you the sticker from the vial or just a sticker stating what vaccine was given? They should have brought the vial out for you to see. Like I've said earlier most vets just assume all their vaccines are thimerasol free because it's not listed as an ingredient. Like Marj said, they use a syringe and draw the vaccine for _many_ dogs from one large container. The TF vaccine will be it's own individual vial with TF on the label. Good for you for asking to see the container. Did they ever show it to you? Sorry that the vet seemed flustered. Remember most of their patients aren't as informed as we are. In some cases we are more informed that the vet!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

educ8m said:


> Sandi, what sticker are you talking about? Did he give you the sticker from the vial or just a sticker stating what vaccine was given? They should have brought the vial out for you to see. *Like I've said earlier most vets just assume all their vaccines are thimerasol free because it's not listed as an ingredient.* Like Marj said, they use a syringe and draw the vaccine for _many_ dogs from one large container. The TF vaccine will be it's own individual vial with TF on the label. Good for you for asking to see the container. Did they ever show it to you? Sorry that the vet seemed flustered. Remember most of their patients aren't as informed as we are. In some cases we are more informed that the vet!


That was my experience exactly. My vet assumed that the IMRAB 3 they used was thimerasol free until I explained to difference and handed her my print out. She then called Merial, and then me to let me know that I was exactly right, that there was a difference. Fortunately, after speaking to Merial's sales rep she decided using TF rabies vaccines was "just good medicine" and switched the entire clinic over.

I found pictures of the different vials so we will know what to look for. The scale is obviously off as the TF vial is an individual dose and much smaller.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

He gave me the TF1 sticker off the vial, and I put it in the passport---it was the one pictured above. 
He did not know that there was a TF3---said there "wasn't" and since I did not know for sure, I did not argue w/him. He kept trying to sell me an agricultural paper to leave the country w/and I told him---all I need to enter a European country is the passport w/all the verifications.
Lisi did not get a vaccine as she isn't due until Nov. & I don't want to chance it now. We have enough on our plate at the moment! :w00t::w00t: :HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley:
She had a reaction before to the Lepto as well, so I don't think it is just the rabies that is a problem now. I am not sure I will ever try another rabies shot of any kind w/her or any other shot for that matter.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

edelweiss said:


> He gave me the TF1 sticker off the vial, and I put it in the passport---it was the one pictured above.
> He did not know that there was a TF3---said there "wasn't" and since I did not know for sure, I did not argue w/him. He kept trying to sell me an agricultural paper to leave the country w/and I told him---all I need to enter a European country is the passport w/all the verifications.
> Lisi did not get a vaccine as she isn't due until Nov. & I don't want to chance it now. We have enough on our plate at the moment! :w00t::w00t: :HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley:
> She had a reaction before to the Lepto as well, so I don't think it is just the rabies that is a problem now. I am not sure I will ever try another rabies shot of any kind w/her or any other shot for that matter.


It's frustrating how little vets seem to know about the TF rabies vaccine, isn't it? I think too many vets just assume that is what they are using and don't verify it by calling Merial. Honestly, they probably get very few owners who even request it.

Unfortunately, I suspect many SMer's have unknowingly gotten the regular IMRAB vaccine even after inquiring beforehand. :thmbdn:

A good vet will welcome your questions and not be offended. I also printed out Dr. Center's bile acid protocol for my vet before Bailey had his BAT. My vet was shocked at how it differed from the protocol the lab told them. Their lab still required a 12 hour fast and a high protein meal!


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## mdbflorida (Feb 28, 2013)

educ8m said:


> Thanks for the link, Marj. Just to clarify though. The FIRST rabies vaccine should be the IMRAB 1 TF instead of the 3 TF. Lynda (Katie, Chloe, Chachi, and Gigi's mom) called her vet the other day to ask about ordering the TF rabies vaccine. He told her she would have to pay for 10 vials. Because of that she is going back to her "old" vet who ordered it last time for no extra charge.
> 
> 
> Many vets assume theirs are TF. I've had friends run into this same issue. Again, for everyone reading this: The only way the vaccine is TF is if it says TF on the label. I actually asked to see the vial before they gave Ella her vaccine. :w00t: I was nervous about asking, but they didn't bat an eye.


I did the same thing! I didn't trust them.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

mdbflorida said:


> I did the same thing! I didn't trust them.


:thumbsup: Good for you!

Dr. Melissa switched her whole practice over to the TF rabies vaccine, but still indulged me a week later by bringing the vial and empty syringe on a tray into the treatment room to prove it! :thumbsup:

I don't think most vets are trying to deceive their clients, I just think they assume the vaccine they are using is mercury free. Asking to see the vial is the only way to verify it.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I did send the vet a msg last night to say there is a TF-3 yr. made by the same co. I will wait to hear back!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

edelweiss said:


> I did send the vet a msg last night to say there is a TF-3 yr. made by the same co. I will wait to hear back!


Good for you! Did you send the link to the product information I posted a couple of pages back?

It's frustrating that the vet didn't bother to call Merial to find out since you set this up so long ago.


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## educ8m (May 19, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> That was my experience exactly. My vet assumed that the IMRAB 3 they used was thimerasol free until I explained to difference and handed her my print out. She then called Merial, and then me to let me know that I was exactly right, that there was a difference. Fortunately, after speaking to Merial's sales rep she decided using TF rabies vaccines was "just good medicine" and switched the entire clinic over.
> 
> I found pictures of the different vials so we will know what to look for. The scale is obviously off as the TF vial is an individual dose and much smaller.


Wow, our experiences _are_ identical. My vet, too, called Merial and after discovering the difference also switched her whole practice over to thimerosal free. :chili:


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## pehirsch (May 13, 2013)

This post and answers are invaluable. Thank you!


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## Bailey&Me (Mar 8, 2010)

pehirsch said:


> This post and answers are invaluable. Thank you!


I agree :aktion033: Emma was scheduled for her first Rabies shot last Friday so I read this entire thread a couple of times to prepare. I even asked to see the label and yes, sure enough it was the IMRAB TF-1. Thanks ladies for the helpful advice, as always!


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## educ8m (May 19, 2010)

pehirsch said:


> This post and answers are invaluable. Thank you!


 Patricia, so glad this thread has helped you!



Bailey&Me said:


> I agree :aktion033: Emma was scheduled for her first Rabies shot last Friday so I read this entire thread a couple of times to prepare. I even asked to see the label and yes, sure enough it was the IMRAB TF-1. Thanks ladies for the helpful advice, as always!


Nida, good for you for asking to see the label! Glad you got the thimerisol free for Emma! :chili:


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## dmsl (Jan 26, 2013)

I also had called my vet first to verifiy which rabies they use...it's pfizer so I asked if they could get the merial tf in...they called around & found another clinic who uses merial & got one from them. Booboo is 8 months old today & I've put it off for him to get this old - even though they've been pestering me to bring him in! I don't care if it is the "law" they're not going door to door seeing who has a shot on a certain day! Taking him in today at 3:30...praying for no reaction at all! We avoid lepto and bordetella as well with him and our golden retriever. Stand up for what you read & believe!!! I love our vets and have seen many in our practice...but I'm not afraid to speak my opinion and question them on the hows and whys of doing things. 

When I was a teenager I took my cat in to be spayed...she died I guess from the anesthesia while I was at school....and of course that was before cell phones & we didn't find out til we arrived at the vet after school to pick her up! I ask a lot of questions with my pets now!!!


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