# Calling on all Cherub Maltese owners



## Dahlia Dahl (May 27, 2010)

We're considering a Cherub Maltese pup from Dale. I've done a lot of homework & haven't found any red flags about this breeder (just some concerns about multiple breeds, but otherwise reputable). No posts for reviews have been made on the MalteseOnly site. I'm curious to know if anyone on SM has a Malt from Cherub, has any additional info I should consider before moving forward (feel free to PM me), and if you could post a pic of your Cherub fluff if you have one.

Many thanks! I'll post pics & update when we make a final decision & bring our pup home.

Dahlia


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

Jane and Dale have some beautiful dogs. Good luck with your search. 











Experience The Magic
HOME


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Multiple breeds would steer me clear.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

I find their Home Page very "wordy". Also passing off wrong information:

Maltese are the most gentle of all the toy breeds 
and *no breed* *of dog is more intelligent* *or more trainable* than a
little Maltese.

LOL ~ Are you kidding? "*No breed of dog* is more intelligent or more trainable than a little Maltese". That, alone is a pile of crap.

Cherub Maltese: Quality Maltese for pet and show

I'm not saying Maltese are NOT intelligent, however; they are not exactly on top of the Einstein list.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Dale and Jane had bred top winning Japanese Chins for a number of years. They inherited the Maltese. There are a number of breeders who had a couple breeds and do a wonderful job with all of them. 

And Soda Pop is quite offended that you don't think he's Einstein, Deb LOL


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

3Maltmom said:


> I find their Home Page very "wordy". Also passing off wrong information:
> 
> Maltese are the most gentle of all the toy breeds
> and *no breed* *of dog is more intelligent* *or more trainable* than a
> ...


Lady's more in the category of Forrest Gump!


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## magee (Sep 15, 2007)

My Lilly is from Cherub. I couldn't be happier! I flew down to Dallas to pick her up. He was very nice and helpful. I spent a couple hours with him while I picked out my pup. I would definitely get another pup from him. If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.

Debbie


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

jmm said:


> Dale and Jane had bred top winning Japanese Chins for a number of years. They inherited the Maltese. There are a number of breeders who had a couple breeds and do a wonderful job with all of them.
> 
> *And Soda Pop is quite offended that you don't think he's Einstein, Deb LOL*


:HistericalSmiley: ~ Don't be offended my Soda Pop. You, and your mom, are an
exception. You, my little one, are an Einstein. Love ya!! :wub:

Marj, my house is full of Forest Gumps. And forever will be ~ :yahoo:

God help me ~ LMAO


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

I own three maltese and a yorkie. I love my maltese more then anything else in the world...but.....um.....they're not always the sharpest knives in the drawer...... :w00t:....omG did I just say that?! :blush:

BUT they are the sweetest and the most beautiful.....that's for sure!!!! :chili:


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## magee (Sep 15, 2007)

BTW..I don't think it is right for anyone to pass judgment or offer opinions on a breeder unless they have first hand knowledge. Your perception does not equal first hand knowledge.

Yung, can you please chime in?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

All of my Maltese have been smart, intelligent little dogs. Roo in particular is a bit too smart for his own good. Soda is the smartest dumbest dog I've ever had. You can train him to do complicated behaviors but he can't figure out how to follow a cookie when you throw it.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Hey, as long as they can find the puppy pad and their food I'm happy with the IQ (low that it may be). Cosy! THat does not mean poo is food!


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

magee said:


> BTW..I don't think it is right for anyone to pass judgment or offer opinions on a breeder unless they have first hand knowledge. Your perception does not equal first hand knowledge.
> 
> Yung, can you please chime in?


IMO, i don't think any 'rules' were broken. Nobody was saying anything wrong about Cherub as a breeder, merely questioning the validity of a statement on the website. I have to agree with most of the comments that maltese aren't on the top of my smartest dog list, but there are always exceptions! 

I personally don't have a problem with a show breeder having multiple breeds - but only if those multiple breed are well kept and are bred wisely to contribute to bettering their breed, not just being bred for puppy sales.


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## magee (Sep 15, 2007)

Stacy-

Thanks for chiming in. I have been meaning to thank you...you answered my question when I couldn't decide between a boy and a girl. Your answer opened me up to getting a girl and I couldn't be happier! Lilly is such a sweet pup. Thanks again!


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

magee said:


> Stacy-
> 
> Thanks for chiming in. I have been meaning to thank you...you answered my question when I couldn't decide between a boy and a girl. Your answer opened me up to getting a girl and I couldn't be happier! Lilly is such a sweet pup. Thanks again!


I don't remember what I said, but you're welcome!!! Lilly looks like a little doll


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

magee said:


> BTW..I don't think it is right for anyone to pass judgment or offer opinions on a breeder unless they have first hand knowledge. Your perception does not equal first hand knowledge.
> 
> Yung, can you please chime in?


You are right. Only members with firsthand knowledge of a breeder are supposed to respond.

Here are the rules pinned in this section:

We are glad to offer information here on SM that can help people purchase from a reputable breeder. 
However, in order to be fair to all concerned, please abide by the following rules. 

Posts not complying with these rules will be either edited or removed, at the discretion of the Admin/Mod team.

1. Please only reply if you have *first-hand* experience with the breeder. 
2. Do not make speculative posts of what you "think" the situation "might" be.
3. Do not post anything based on what you have heard.
4. Out of courtesy to the original poster, please stay on topic.

It is recommended that those looking for a Malt research any breeder by doing searches here, 
on Google, and to consider who is on or not on the AMA list, AKC list, as well as noting any violations 
on each and every breeder you consider.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

magee said:


> BTW..I don't think it is right for anyone to pass judgment or offer opinions on a breeder unless they have first hand knowledge. Your perception does not equal first hand knowledge.
> 
> Yung, can you please chime in?


The only opinion, I offered, was disagreement with a statement.

Yep, Maltese are NOT the most intelligent dog. They don't even come close.

You have no idea how many Maltese have come thru my door, as a result of "disappointment" with the original owners. 

I don't "sugar coat" anything. 

As far as passing judgment. Nope, I don't know this breeder.

Why would you ask Yung to "chime in"? That's a bit silly.


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

Matilda is very smart, she knows all sorts of words, stops when I ask her if she wants her top knot out, she rembered my son had a motorcycle and gets so excited when she hears one. :wub:
B&B well she isn't the brightest, but she can make you laugh with her funny little things she does.:wub: Both girls pee on command:HistericalSmiley:what more could you ask for:HistericalSmiley:


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

I don't know the Martensons but have seen some of their dogs being shown and thought they were nice representations of the breed. There are some outstanding breeders in the dog world who breed more than one breed. I agree with Stacy. It's all about how the dogs are being raised and cared for. As for Maltese being the smartest and most trainable dogs, I think most dogs are smart and most are trainable. A lot depends on how they were raised as puppies and how they were trained as youngsters. I'm no Einstein but I do have intelligent and nicely trained Maltese ... those that I've raised myself and those that I've adopted through rescue. I think intelligence, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Which one of mine is smarter ... the one who does the retrieve on command or the one who looks at me as if to say "you threw it, you go get it."? :w00t:


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## 08chrissy08 (Sep 19, 2008)

jmm said:


> All of my Maltese have been smart, intelligent little dogs. Roo in particular is a bit too smart for his own good. Soda is the smartest dumbest dog I've ever had. You can train him to do complicated behaviors but he can't figure out how to follow a cookie when you throw it.


You could have been talking about Jazz right there. Took me about a minute to teach him to roll over but he couldn't find his own butt if his life depended on it. I go back and forth between thinking he's either a genius, or dumb as a rock. Pixie however, is too smart for her own good.

Ok, done derailing now. Back on topic!


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## mi_ku_5 (Jun 2, 2008)

I suggest you search the breeder's name. This isn't the first time he's come close to being thrown under the bus for haveing more than one breed. I would not let having 2 or even 3 breeds steer me away from a breeder, especially if they are toys. The number of dogs he has and how they are housed is far more important *to me*.

Once again I agree w/ Mary H, there is a big difference in intellegence and trainability. My Maltese is very smart, but not exceptionally trainable. My Rottwieler is both. Many breeds on the top of those Intelligence list are neither IMO. (I honestly don't know who wastes their time composing such lists.) 

I have no firsthand experience w/ this breeder, but there is nothing I've seen that would steer me away from him either. I think it says something about his charactr that he would continue w/ his mother's breeding program out of respect for her memory.


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## notori (Mar 21, 2005)

jmm said:


> Dale and Jane had bred top winning Japanese Chins for a number of years. They inherited the Maltese. There are a number of breeders who had a couple breeds and do a wonderful job with all of them.
> 
> And Soda Pop is quite offended that you don't think he's Einstein, Deb LOL


Yes, I believe they inherited from their mother. Also, people who are out there showing all the time and have been in it for years have more than one breed usually. 
Char


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

Cherub Maltese from my knowledge is not a backyard breeder or puppymill. I spoke to Dale years ago before I had London & Preston and he was very helpful and I felt he answered my questions honestly. I cannot say too much more about Cherub Maltese because my experience with them did not go very far as I do not have a Maltese from them, but I would say they don't put up any huge red flags.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

I've known Dale for almost 30 years. He is extremely reputable and truly cares about his dogs and bettering the breed, imho.

His "bred" is Japanese Chins. His wife, Jane's, mother was the Maltese breeder and founded Cherub Maltese. After her passing, Jane and Dale have continued her breeding program for Maltese on a more limited basis.

Although I don't have one of their dogs, I would not hesitate to buy from Dale and Jane. They are helpful, knowledage and truly care for dogs and bettering the breed. They are not puppymills, bybs or greeders.

If they have a little one that you are interested in, then I would say that you are working with a quality breeder and should be able to rely on Dale and Jane.

(Deb - as far as the comment about intelligence -- it depends on where you're coming from. I mean, in comparison to Chins, Maltese are brillant, imho. LOL)


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## CherubMaltese (Mar 17, 2008)

Dahlia Dahl said:


> We're considering a Cherub Maltese pup from Dale. I've done a lot of homework & haven't found any red flags about this breeder (just some concerns about multiple breeds, but otherwise reputable). No posts for reviews have been made on the MalteseOnly site. I'm curious to know if anyone on SM has a Malt from Cherub, has any additional info I should consider before moving forward (feel free to PM me), and if you could post a pic of your Cherub fluff if you have one.
> 
> Many thanks! I'll post pics & update when we make a final decision & bring our pup home.
> 
> Dahlia


This is Dale Martenson, from Cherub Maltese.
Thank-you for the kind notes on our maltese, we are very proud of the 4 new champions we have in 2010. 
Our Rhapsody's King Henry Reins At Cherub, sends congratulations to his sire HENRY for BISS at the 2010 AMA National Specialty.
We do not have a puppy offered to the original poster on this thread.
For those of you that find our website comments about maltese being brilliant little dogs filled with unconditional love disturbing, I am sorry your dogs are not as smart and adorable as ours are.
Although we do not have time to spend online, we do watch comments and take our
reputation very seriously.
Sincerely,
Dale R. Martenson
Cherub Maltese


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

CherubMaltese said:


> This is Dale Martenson, from Cherub Maltese.
> Thank-you for the kind notes on our maltese, we are very proud of the 4 new champions we have in 2010.
> Our Rhapsody's King Henry Reins At Cherub, sends congratulations to his sire HENRY for BISS at the 2010 AMA National Specialty.
> We do not have a puppy offered to the original poster on this thread.
> ...


Congratulations, Dale, on your new champions. And thanks for letting us know that there is yet another troublemaker trying their best to destroy someone.

I've said it before and I will say it again, breeder discussion should not be allowed on this forum (nor should puppy sales). Some breeders have been shredded while others have been deified ... and in many cases neither the "shredded" nor the "deified" were deserving of what they got!

In reading a few of the posts in this thread, yours included, I'm so relieved to know that my Maltese are not "abnormal" in their level of intelligence. I was thinking I might have to look for a special school for advanced learners for our next round of doggie school!


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

CherubMaltese said:


> This is Dale Martenson, from Cherub Maltese.
> Thank-you for the kind notes on our maltese, we are very proud of the 4 new champions we have in 2010.
> Our Rhapsody's King Henry Reins At Cherub, sends congratulations to his sire HENRY for BISS at the 2010 AMA National Specialty.
> We do not have a puppy offered to the original poster on this thread.
> ...


Thank you for posting! I find my dogs quite intelligent, just not in the same league as some other breeds (now if they'd only learn to stop peeing next to the pad instead of on it, I'd move them up) 

i can't believe somebody posted this just to cause trouble! That's awful  Hope you can get to the bottom of it!

Hope to meet you sometime! Hopefully at this year's Nationals?


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

CherubMaltese said:


> This is Dale Martenson, from Cherub Maltese.
> Thank-you for the kind notes on our maltese, we are very proud of the 4 new champions we have in 2010.
> Our Rhapsody's King Henry Reins At Cherub, sends congratulations to his sire HENRY for BISS at the 2010 AMA National Specialty.
> We do not have a puppy offered to the original poster on this thread.
> ...


 

:aktion033::aktion033: It's about time some reputables breeders step up, I'm so tired of seeing peoples repuations ripped apart. Thank you for your post


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

Lots of people will search around and see a pup they are interested in on a web site before moving forward and contacting the breeder. And if you re-read the original post, she said she was researching and considering it - not that she had been offered a pup yet. So, I think this shows that the OP, if she decides to move forward, will be basing her decision to request a pup after much careful consideration and research (she was asking if anyone here had a pup from that breeder...good idea to get firsthand knowledge). I want to COMMEND the OP for questioning the multiple breed thing. Please remember that this is definitely a red flag for a questionable breeder and she questioned it (clap clap). Happily, several people are familiar with the breeder and said that they are, in fact, reputable and elaborated on it which is the best possible scenario. If more people would research this way it would go a long way to weeding out the bybers and millers. As they can now see, not all things that may on their face appear as a red flag are, in fact, bad...just something to make you look a bit deeper. That being done, it appears that Cherub is a good breeder. So this is a happy result.  

PS: As to what Deb said, I prefectly understand it. Here's an intelligence ranking for dogs: http://petrix.com/dogint/intelligence.html (maltese is at #59). I think there can be no question that Deb isn't putting down maltese (heck, look how many she has/harbors)... but mentioning that perhaps due to their cute/toy personalities, they can use their intelligence as they CHOOSE to (unlike some of the working breeds who are more programmed to do what you tell them). They are not dunderheads, for sure, but they aren't always as quick to respond as a border collie (ranked at #1). A person deciding what breed of dog is right for them needs to evaluate how important it is to them to have a dog that snaps to attention/commands at the raise of an eyebrow or one that is more laid back and will obey you but not always 100% of the time (bear in mind, of course, that each dog has an individual personality and cannot always fit into a generalized scale system).

It's hard not to get emotional when discussing the breed of OUR choice, but these inquiry threads are from people who are still evaluating and deciding what's right for them (I never know who is behind the screen so unless something screams troublemaker - which to me this thread did not - I give it the benefit of the doubt). So I try to keep my personal emotions in check when responding to them... hoping a decision is made which is right for THEM and that a maltese dog won't end up in a home with someone who may be more tuned in to a different breed in the long run


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

maltlovereileen said:


> I want to COMMEND the OP for questioning the multiple breed thing. Please remember that this is definitely a red flag for a questionable breeder and she questioned it (clap clap). Happily, several people are familiar with the breeder and said that they are, in fact, reputable and elaborated on it which is the best possible scenario. If more people would research this way it would go a long way to weeding out the bybers and millers. As they can now see, not all things that may on their face appear as a red flag are, in fact, bad...just something to make you look a bit deeper. That being done, it appears that Cherub is a good breeder. So this is a happy result.


Eileen, did you read Dale's response? He said *"We do not have a puppy offered to the original poster on this thread."* whereas the OP just joined and his/her very first post attempted to suggest questionable practices. You are commending a troublemaker? Reminds me of the post a week or so ago posted by a newbie that said "nice pup, but long nose". Clearly a troublemaker at work with some unfortunate results.

Why are multiple breeds an automatic red flag? There are many, many good, honest, ethical, knowledgeable breeders breeding multiple breeds. By the same token there are many, many unethical breeders breeding only one breed of dog. Numbers and limits just don't work whether it's about breeds being bred, puppies being born, or dogs/bitches in one's breeding program. What would you prefer -- the person who has only 5 dogs, 4 of whom are girls that are bred every time they come into season and have been for 4 years straight? Or the person who has 10 dogs of three different breeds who breeds each occasionally and has spent a lifetime learning the history, health and pedigree of each of his/her breeds? And should anyone decide what sort of breeder a person is just by reading their website and forming a conclusion? Not me, thanks anyway.


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

Mary, the OP did not say they had a puppy offered - just that they were looking at this breeder considering a puppy (any breeder with a website offering "available puppies" will have people doing this exact same thing.

I am commending someone for following good research practices. There are threads here all the time cautioning people to be wary of those offering more than one type of breed. Apparently, Cherub used to breed chins. There is NOTHING WRONG with questioning. I didn't know Cherub used to breed chins. I found out about it, people explained it and the red flag vanished for me. That's a GOOD THING.

I don't think people should jump to conclusions that someone is stirring up trouble. The web is bigger than just a handful of people. Why alienate someone who may, in fact, be legitimate and possibly a great candidate for a Cherub pup by not being willing to openly discuss the whys of something that is on the list of red flags?

*And, frankly, they just gave some good advertising to Cherub just by posting...think of how many people will see this, read the thread, click the website, see the available pups and consider requesting one based on the responses of the members here. 

PS: If you want to know why multiple breeds are a red flag (which I am surprised someone such as yourself would even ask ???), this could and should be a separate thread in and of itself. As far as this thread goes, the point is that just because something shows up on its face as a red flag doesn't mean that after research the end result necessarily what you thought...could be a false red flag, but a red flag means LOOK CLOSELY. We looked and liked the answer we got.


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

magee said:


> My Lilly is from Cherub. I couldn't be happier! I flew down to Dallas to pick her up. He was very nice and helpful. I spent a couple hours with him while I picked out my pup. I would definitely get another pup from him. If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.
> 
> Debbie


She is a cutie!!! The pic of her in the sink is just precious!!! :wub:


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## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

I became interested in the Maltese back in 1996 or so when I read an older book by Margolis and Segal that said the Maltese were one of the smartest breeds (or trainable--not sure which).  

I was considering breeds to replace my undersized mini schnauzer, a rescue who learned to open closet doors in no time at all, but didn't learn "sit" for three years.  I thought my Spunky (who I got in 1996 in part because of that "rating") was very smart but that I hadn't put his intelligence to use in the traditional ways. But he sure had me figured out--and knew how to keep the other dogs in line!


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

maltlovereileen said:


> PS: If you want to know why multiple breeds are a red flag (which I am surprised someone such as yourself would even ask ???), this could and should be a separate thread in and of itself. As far as this thread goes, the point is that just because something shows up on its face as a red flag doesn't mean that after research the end result necessarily what you thought...could be a false red flag, but a red flag means LOOK CLOSELY. We looked and liked the answer we got.


Since the one and only concern that the OP raised was about multiple breeds I feel that this is the appropriate place to respond. As for why someone such as myself would even question the statement "Please remember that this is definitely a red flag for a questionable breeder" I will reiterate what I've already said ... "There are many, many good, honest, ethical, knowledgeable breeders breeding multiple breeds. By the same token there are many, many unethical breeders breeding only one breed of dog. Numbers and limits just don't work whether it's about breeds being bred, puppies being born, or dogs/bitches in one's breeding program. What would you prefer -- the person who has only 5 dogs, 4 of whom are girls that are bred every time they come into season and have been for 4 years straight? Or the person who has 10 dogs of three different breeds who breeds each occasionally and has spent a lifetime learning the history, health and pedigree of each of his/her breeds?" I personally know breeders involved in more than one breed whose dogs I'd be honored to own if I were inclined toward owning their breeds. By the same token I know breeders only involved in one breed who would not be on my radar screen.


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## sheila's malt (Apr 17, 2010)

I will have to say that my sugar is very very smart. I have taught her tricks and really only showed her 2 or 3 times. I have had several different breeds in my 56 years of living and i would have to say that Malts are one of the smartest. I have her on video doing all of her tricks. Hope to be able to post it sometime.


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

Not smart? Really? 











As for the breeder in question - I have no idea.  But I do not think that having multiple breeds is a huge red flag. If they are mixing them, then yes. Otherwise, it's just like any breeder: You need to do your research.


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

MandyMc65 said:


> Not smart? Really?
> 
> YouTube - Jax Tricks
> 
> ...


Awsome!!!! I really enjoyed watching Jax do his tricks.

Cathy


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

Mandy, I loved seeing Ajax do all of his tricks! I knew you had worked with him, but I didn't know he was THAT obedient!!! Great job to you for giving him such positive reinforcement and being a loving mommy.  I love the easter egg game...that is great for any dog on a rainy day!


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## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

Oh, my goodness, I loved those videos. Your Jax is REALLY a smart one!! WTG!:aktion033::aktion033::aktion033::aktion033:


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## magee (Sep 15, 2007)

maltlovereileen said:


> She is a cutie!!! The pic of her in the sink is just precious!!! :wub:


Lilly says thank you! :wub:


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## waggybaby (Jul 28, 2009)

Jax ia AWSOME :chili::chili::chili:
I watched that video over and over and showed it to every one in my home.


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## CherubMaltese (Mar 17, 2008)

*WOW - JAX is AWESOME!!*

I stand behind the opinion that maltese are the brightest of any toy / companion breed!
We have a doggy daycare A Bark In The Park and take care of over 4000 pets in our county and maltese are second to none in our book.
Our little Justice "CH.Marcris Risque Justice" came to our home as an older dog and fit in almost immediately.
I am sure Joyce imprints and handles her babies as we do and that really makes for a dog that is great member of any household.
Dale


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## CherubMaltese (Mar 17, 2008)

*Please consider...*

good advertising to Cherub just by posting...think of how many people will see this, read the thread, click the website, see the available pups and consider requesting one based on the responses of the members here. 

Really Eileen, 
Don't think anybody wants that advertising.
Maybe breeders should go on FB and contact all the people (friends/family/business associates) and express concerns before offering a puppy.
Maybe they drive an old car, live in a questionable neighborhood, or perhaps they have a different religious belief these could all be topics of conversation.
(aka RED FLAGS)
These self appointed peers our sit in judgement for all to watch and enjoy at the expense of the potential pet owner.
Maybe we could discuss if they were really too overweight to properly care for a pet and then be relieved that we all agreed they were not too fat to have a puppy.
I'll give you a hint, as to if a breeder is showing their dogs making champions (not just have an stud they bought) having AKC inspections and investing in breed betterment ... you can put down the "red flag".
Check out www.txmaltesebreeders.com or any other state and many other breeds (cavaliers, yorkies, & etc)... this is what a puppy brokerage would look like.
I am not attacking you Eileen as I think you are probably a really nice caring person but you are not walking a mile in anothers shoes.
People will say the most wicked, hateful things in a email that they would never say in person or in a penned letter.
Without blinking an eye, judgmental, rude, or uninformed words directed at another for ALL of the world to see are there for eternity.
Grandmother always said "Make your words sweet ... it is more pleasant when you have to eat them".
Dale Martenson
CHERUB MALTESE


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

From my own pet owner experience,Maltese are very easily trained & intelligent. Nothing dumb about Boo & Hannah at all. I think, like people,some may be smarter than others. Boo is smarter & more eager to learn than Hannah,but she too is one smart little Malt.:wub::wub:


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

CherubMaltese said:


> good advertising to Cherub just by posting...think of how many people will see this, read the thread, click the website, see the available pups and consider requesting one based on the responses of the members here.
> 
> Really Eileen,
> Don't think anybody wants that advertising.
> ...


Where is the bad advertisement, Dale (since IMO the opening thread was just a general question - we get them here all the time for Bonnie's Angels, etc etc etc - virtually anyone who is on anyone's radar as a potential breeder to buy from)? Please re-read the OP - you are overreacting IMO. Seriously. And frankly, I hope breeders DO lots of those types of checks that you mentioned - can a person afford proper care of a puppy, will they be able to properly exercise a puppy, etc and not just sell to someone who has enough money. I'm not going to even respond to the intelligence comment because we obviously ALL love maltese dogs as they are the ones WE chose. Deb is a well respected member here very active in rescue. She is known around here for being and saying funny/silly/over the top things. I posted the intelligence list to show that maltese ranked at 59...not low intelligence dogs and not the highest. Maybe you are reacting to that since it was made as a result of reading your website. That's her opinion and she's entitled to it. As for the red flag issue -_* I*_ didn't raise the red flag issue, just stated I understood why they would have asked that question so please stop trying to stir up drama where there is none.

And I haven't the slightest idea what this is referring to "I am not attacking you Eileen as I think you are probably a really nice caring person but you are not walking a mile in anothers shoes.
People will say the most wicked, hateful things in a email that they would never say in person or in a penned letter.
Without blinking an eye, judgmental, rude, or uninformed words directed at another for ALL of the world to see are there for eternity." as everything I wrote was written as if speaking to a potential puppy buyer who had a question...it was not written emotionally (or rude for that matter) but simply as a response to the question the OP posted. ???


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## CherubMaltese (Mar 17, 2008)

*Bless your heart Eileen*

I get it that you don't get it, and I certainly will let you have the last word as I am sure that is very important to you.

As the definition of insanity is doing the same action expecting different results I doubt you will ever understand the concept that YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHO IS ETHICAL.

We would never sell a dog to a person that would make such a post, and cheerfully give and request references. 

When I come across busy bodies like yourself that are just wanting to dish a little dirt ... thats a red flag.

As far as intelligence of toy breed dogs IMHO don't really think you can do better than a maltese.
Since I have finished over 500 AKC CHAMPION dogs and operate a pet care center for my living I feel entitled to my opinion and put my personal experiences up against anybodies.

I assure you almost anybody could happily live without the great press of being a list topic.

Having sued for libel before, you are at your own risk when you make statements that could damage another.
Even if it is you own opinion, say whatever you can afford to prove in court Eileen if it is that important to you.
OK, rattle on Eileen - just make sure its all true.
Dale


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