# Show Judge abuses a Malt....



## lisaj1354 (Aug 9, 2010)

Someone needs to slap this judge.

Hard.

(Hope I posted this in the right place...)


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

That judge should be thrown out :smilie_tischkante::smilie_tischkante:


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

OMG! :angry:


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## jerricks (Dec 24, 2007)

poor little one, it sure doesnt want to get near that witch again!


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

:angry: she better be fired, what a jerk, I felt so sorry for the dog he was scared to death


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## maltemom09 (Jan 27, 2010)

OMG! That b***h needs her face knocked to the ground a couple of times and see how she feels! :smmadder::smmadder: And as for the handler ..... IMO at that point she should have taken control and walked away reporting the abuse!


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## Miss_Annie (Mar 3, 2010)

If anyone would've done that to my baby... I don't even want to type what I'd do to them! :beating a dead hors (Judge= horse)


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

That poor little baby!:crying 2: I'm sorry but if that were my dog being treated like that i wouldn't stand by and watch no matter who it was. Heads would be rolling!!! :angry:


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## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

Miss_Annie said:


> If anyone would've done that to my baby... I don't even want to type what I'd do to them! :beating a dead hors (Judge= horse)


 
I would NOT have stood there like a dam dunce and let her get away with that! What the He** is wrong with those men, standing there like fools -

She should rot in a hole.


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## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

As I don't know much about showing - can someone explain what was happening?


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

Hunter's Mom said:


> As I don't know much about showing - can someone explain what was happening?


I know that when a dog won't stack right that sometimes the handler will pick them up and rock them back and forth and try to restack them. I've seen this done many times. That's what it looks like the judge was trying to do to me, but the puppy freaked out. I'm not so sure that the judge is abusing the dog, but it does look like she's being too forceful, especially with a puppy.


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## heartmadeforyou (May 16, 2009)

Why did the handler look like nothing was happening? I would have freaked out if something like that happened to me and Bogie!


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

I watched 2x - I don't know diddley squat about showing 'cept what I've seen on TV, and I have never seen a judge take the amount of time this one did in looking a dog over. Whatever she did to get that fluff so animated he wanted to jump off the table I don't know. Then there's the no balls handler...Holding the lead like nothing was happening. She should have picked up that baby and disqualified themselves, after a few choice words to the 2 legged bitch that caused the incident. That dog was traumatized by the judge - didn't want to go near her after it's 1 round around the ring. Too bad, it could have a negative lasting effect on a good show dog.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Hunter's Mom said:


> As I don't know much about showing - can someone explain what was happening?


It looks to me like the judge was trying to get the puppy to stack properly on the table, the puppy became rambunctious and the judge was trying to get it back to a controlled state. If that's what is going on, I personally think there are much better ways to accomplish it. As for why the handler did nothing, the handler may be an amateur (as in owner/handler) who has never run into a situation like this before and did not know what to do. I showed my first dog, Timmy, to a judge who I felt was way too heavy handed with him. I was very unhappy but it was only my third or fourth show and I did not know what to do. And, like in my situation, if you look at what happened in that video that "manhandling" took place over about 40 seconds ... not much time to even absorb what's going on, let alone take action. This video has traveled the world over the past week or so and I'd venture to guess that that judge, even if she's not suspended, will not be getting any more invites to judge a dog show.


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## janettandamber (Jan 19, 2009)

I can't beleive the handler didn't smack the judge. It was obivious the baby didn't like the %itch


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

If a judge did that to my dog, you can bet I would be ready to kill them. That poor puppy could very well be ruined for the ring after that experience. 

This is not in ANY way normal. I hope the judge is sanctioned. This happened in Spain and has caused an uproar around the show community.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

OMG :smcry: I can't imagine anyone doing that to a dog much less a judge. What was she trying to do with the paws at the end of the table? And then basically looking like she was strangling the dog and manhandling it. How does any organization let that happen? And I agree if I was a handler I would have taken the dog and said the h*** with the show and reported her. Nothing is worth doing that to my dog. You can see how petrified the dog is of the judge when she's walking back. :angry::hysteric:


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## njdrake (Apr 23, 2007)

I'm truly astounded. The whole time I watched this I couldn't believe what I was watching. I'll bet this has caused an uproar around the world in the show community, it certainly should! If I had been that handler I would have picked that pup up and walked away. What the he** was that judge thinking?


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## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

Starsmom said:


> I watched 2x - I don't know diddley squat about showing 'cept what I've seen on TV, and I have never seen a judge take the amount of time this one did in looking a dog over. Whatever she did to get that fluff so animated he wanted to jump off the table I don't know. Then there's the no balls handler...Holding the lead like nothing was happening. She should have picked up that baby and disqualified themselves, after a few choice words to the 2 legged bitch that caused the incident. That dog was traumatized by the judge - didn't want to go near her after it's 1 round around the ring. Too bad, it could have a negative lasting effect on a good show dog.


:goodpost:


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## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

MaryH said:


> It looks to me like the judge was trying to get the puppy to stack properly on the table, *the puppy became rambunctious* and the judge was trying to get it back to a controlled state. If that's what is going on, I personally think there are much better ways to accomplish it. As for why the handler did nothing, the handler may be an amateur (as in owner/handler) who has never run into a situation like this before and did not know what to do. I showed my first dog, Timmy, to a judge who I felt was way too heavy handed with him. I was very unhappy but it was only my third or fourth show and I did not know what to do. And, like in my situation, if you look at what happened in that video that "manhandling" took place over about 40 seconds ... not much time to even absorb what's going on, let alone take action. This video has traveled the world over the past week or so and I'd venture to guess that that judge, even if she's not suspended, will not be getting any more invites to judge a dog show.


There is never a good reason to mishandle a living being. Shame on her - I hope that she is ostracized, for life, from the fluff world.

The more I see things like this - the more I disdain humans.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

It hurts to see that poor baby being abused. Not only is the judge abusive ... but, I have no respect for the handler either. It appears as though the handler was more concerned about making a *win* ... than caring about the feelings and harm being done to the dog. The dog shows it's fear when walking back toward the judge ... the poor baby stops before getting anywhere near her. Both the judge and handler, in my eyes, are complete losers.


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

I don't know anything about stacking but couldn't the handler have repositioned her/him and calmed the poor little thing.Looks like the judge was holding the poor little thing by it's throat...
I don't blame the fluff for not wanting to go back towards that judge. I commend the fluff for not biting the judge...I know I wanted to bite her!


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Can we please refrain from calling the handler a loser and accusing her of doing nothing because she was hoping for the win? Please? Maybe I would pick up my dog and walk out, but maybe I'd be so stunned at what was taking place that I'd be paralyzed.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

michellerobison said:


> I don't know anything about stacking but couldn't the handler have repositioned her/him and calmed the poor little thing.Looks like the judge was holding the poor little thing by it's throat...
> I don't blame the fluff for not wanting to go back towards that judge. I commend the fluff for not biting the judge...I know I wanted to bite her!


Me, too!


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

MaryH said:


> Can we please refrain from calling the handler a loser and accusing her of doing nothing because she was hoping for the win? Please? Maybe I would pick up my dog and walk out, but maybe I'd be so stunned at what was taking place that I'd be paralyzed.


Definitely agree! If she was new, she may not have known any better. I am quite sure I wouldn't have when I was first starting out.


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## missiek (Jan 2, 2010)

Oh my goodness, all I can say is I have tears running down my face. It broke my heart to see that poor fluff freeze in fear of going near the judge. I just want to wrap my arms around that poor creature and love it.


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

I saw the video several days ago on Facebook. It still upsets me no matter how many times I see it. The judge doesn't seem like an experienced professional at all. Shame on her for manhandling that sweet little pup.:angry:


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

bellaratamaltese said:


> Definitely agree! If she was new, she may not have known any better. I am quite sure I wouldn't have when I was first starting out.


I heard she was new. I heard this was only her second show. I hope if that happened to me, even at the start I would have grabbed my dog and gotten out of there, but I think this "judge" traumatized both the puppy and this newbie to the ring. Such a shame. :angry:


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Hopefully she was reported to the Kennel Club Rep at the show. If not, they should be contacted. Not certain which country this was in. What I know that they have an AKC equivalent.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Lacie's Mom said:


> Hopefully she was reported to the AKC Rep at the show. If not, the AKC should be contacted.


Lynn, I think by now the entire dog world knows about this. But this particular show was held in Spain, not in the U.S.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

Lacie's Mom said:


> Hopefully she was reported to the AKC Rep at the show. If not, the AKC should be contacted.


It was in Spain, so it would not be AKC. I have heard that FCI, the European governing body, has had reports filed since the posting of the video.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

bellaratamaltese said:


> Definitely agree! If she was new, she may not have known any better. I am quite sure I wouldn't have when I was first starting out.


I don't show, and I know better. My dogs are rescues, not much of anything. But let me tell you, there is NO way, my dogs would be treated like that. 

I do not understand how you "wouldn't" know. For me it's instinct. Within seconds, I would grab my dog with one hand, and sock the judge in the face, with the other.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I know the breeder of this dog personally and I know she is extremely upset at the way the dog was handled---as is the owner/handler. It is correct that she is new to showing and was shocked/stunned by this judge. As would I have been. She has my empathy!!

The judge has been reported, letters have been written; people are ANGRY, but people are not optimistic that things will change. This is not the US. It is one of the reasons I hate showing. It is short-sighted to think that everyplace is like the US. Anyone can be "a Monday morning quarterback." Please save your wrath for the judge & his cronies. The end---hopefully not!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

PS: Lyndon Johnson's famous (infamous) saying:
Any Jackass can kick down the barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one."
or my favorite saying:
Anyone can smell a rotten egg---but not everyone can lay a better one!":HistericalSmiley:


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

That judge has DOG RAGE.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

JMO: If I were the handler, I would have picked up my dog and walked out.


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

The puppy was behaving quite well on the table - I guess the handler wasn't stacking him/her right and the judge tried to stack the puppy - this happened to me once - actually when Milo had one of his biggest wins - BUT the judge I had picked him up and gently stacked him once onto the table - not swing him around like he's a toy!:angry:

That video makes me so sad! The poor puppy doesn't even want to walk back towards the judge.

I saw the first posting of this video on facebook and watched so many people share it(not just maltese people)

There has been a number of complaints made to the FCI - I hope something is done!!


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

It looks like she is trying to choke the poor little thing. :angry: It made me sad to see how afraid the puppy became. That little Malt may never be able to be shown again.


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## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

It's interesting to see the different responses to this video. It changes how you feel about a person, it changes a lot.

I don’t care where you are or you’re doing - if someone is hurting something that you love - you react, you don’t stand there like a dunce.


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

Sandcastles said:


> It's interesting to see the different responses to this video. It changes how you feel about a person, it changes a lot.
> 
> *I don’t care where you are or you’re doing - if someone is hurting something that you love - you react, you don’t stand there like a dunce*.


I agree!!

I would have picked my puppy up and left the ring!


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## harrysmom (Sep 28, 2007)

I feel so badly for the little fluff. He looks so scared. But, I also feel for the handler. She looks like she doesn't know what to do, either. After all of this publicity, hopefully this judge won't be judging little dogs anymore.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Sandcastles said:


> It's interesting to see the different responses to this video. It changes how you feel about a person, it changes a lot.
> 
> I don’t care where you are or you’re doing - if someone is hurting something that you love - you react, you don’t stand there like a dunce.


A few years ago I was in a very serious earthquake here in Athens---people all around me were killed. I had, the week before, had been given a lecture on "what to do in an earthquake" and had practiced it in my mind. When the earthquake hit I was so surprised I was literally paralyzed. I recited in my brain what was presented in that lecture, but I could not move for what seemed like quite a long suspended amount of time (literally seconds). 
I hope that the next time this happens I will be able to react differently, but I won't know for sure until it happens.


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## munchkn8835 (May 23, 2010)

Someone should put her on that table and jerk her around like that. Poor Fluff.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

A handler is a person experienced in showing dogs and showing dogs is their paid profession. The person showing the dog in this situation is not a handler, she is an exhibitor and a new one at that. BIG difference!! This thread has brought out a lot of negative statements and suggestions, from insults right on up to physical assault. We are so kind and loving to our dogs but so critical and judgmental of our fellow humans. Ironic that the majority of the people not crucifying the exhibitor are people who have actually been in the show ring. Do you think we don't care about our dogs just because we show them? I'll go head to head with anyone on that thought any day of the week. I don't know what I would have done in that situation because I've never been in that situation. But I'm not a dunce or a loser ... I'm a human.

If your opinion of me as a person or as a lover and protector of animals has changed then so be it.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

:goodpost:


MaryH said:


> A handler is a person experienced in showing dogs and showing dogs is their paid profession. The person showing the dog in this situation is not a handler, she is an exhibitor and a new one at that. BIG difference!! This thread has brought out a lot of negative statements and suggestions, from insults right on up to physical assault. We are so kind and loving to our dogs but so critical and judgmental of our fellow humans. Ironic that the majority of the people not crucifying the exhibitor are people who have actually been in the show ring. Do you think we don't care about our dogs just because we show them? I'll go head to head with anyone on that thought any day of the week. I don't know what I would have done in that situation because I've never been in that situation. But I'm not a dunce or a loser ... I'm a human.
> 
> If your opinion of me as a person or as a lover and protector of animals has changed then so be it.


:goodpost:


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## Rocky's Mom (Apr 10, 2010)

What's going on here?


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Just something to think about. Not everyone has the same level of confidence. How many of us on this board shared stories of how we allowed ourselves to be 'pressured' or 'bullied' into choices we weren't the most comfortable with by our vets because they are supposed to be the experts?

And I remember a post not too long ago about what we should be able to freely ask breeders as far as whether they have done certain tests, and there were quite a few of us who admitted it's an uncomfortable/awkward situation because they are supposed to be the experts, and some did not ask those questions when they knew they should. And that is not something that happens right at the moment. You have time to email, call, etc...

My thought process here is, even with someone who has a fairly high level of confidence, when in a new situation where you are not sure of protocol, it would be very easy to be intimidated or even so shocked you were unable to respond the way you would have wanted. I think you all know me well enough to know I am one to stand up for these beautiful and defenseless creatures. I would like to think if it had been me, I would have immediately picked up my Malt and walked away. But would I have been able to react and think that quickly? I know there have been times when I was so shocked that I did not react. Then you replay it in your mind over and over the tormented "I should have done this", or "why didn't I do that?". The truth is, none of really know what we would be capable of doing in that situation until it happens to us.

As for the judge...there is simply no excuse.


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## Maltbabe (Oct 10, 2010)

*Omg*

I get distressed when my vet holds my babies down with force in order to vaccinate, I would have just p/u my baby and left! poor babie! he must have been so scared! :angry:

I changed my vet when he called Ladie a crying little princess and asked her to shut up! How dare him :w00t:


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## uniquelovdolce (Mar 10, 2010)

poor pup , that was just wrong


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Just something to think about. Not everyone has the same level of confidence. How many of us on this board shared stories of how we allowed ourselves to be 'pressured' or 'bullied' into choices we weren't the most comfortable with by our vets because they are supposed to be the experts?
> 
> And I remember a post not too long ago about what we should be able to freely ask breeders as far as whether they have done certain tests, and there were quite a few of us who admitted it's an uncomfortable/awkward situation because they are supposed to be the experts, and some did not ask those questions when they knew they should. And that is not something that happens right at the moment. You have time to email, call, etc...
> 
> ...


I went to bed last night thinking about all of our responses to this thread. I really try to be objective and fair. And, I admit, that yes, I came down hard on both the judge and the handler (or, whatever her title is). But, that is my honest opinion ... and, it still is. It does not mean that I don't listen and respect other opinions. 

The reason I feel so strongly with my opinion about both the judge and handler ... is that I would hope, no matter how shocked one might have felt with the judge's actions in regard to abusing the dog ... that one would have picked up the dog, and been out of there, period. I, personally, would have protected that precious dog ... just like I would a skin child or baby, who was helpless and needed to be protected. So, therefore, it is hard for me to understand, why anyone else ... who truly cared for the well being of a helpless animal, would not have done the same thing. 

Yes, there are circumstances in life when we might be in shock, or when one is not sure what to do at a particular moment. However, when it comes to a human being, or a living animal, that depends on us to protect them ... then I think most of us know what we would do.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Just something to think about. Not everyone has the same level of confidence. How many of us on this board shared stories of how we allowed ourselves to be 'pressured' or 'bullied' into choices we weren't the most comfortable with by our vets because they are supposed to be the experts?
> 
> And I remember a post not too long ago about what we should be able to freely ask breeders as far as whether they have done certain tests, and there were quite a few of us who admitted it's an uncomfortable/awkward situation because they are supposed to be the experts, and some did not ask those questions when they knew they should. And that is not something that happens right at the moment. You have time to email, call, etc...
> 
> ...


Absolutely agree, Crystal. Based on the things I have read, I believe this person has asked themselves that question now. I also heard that not only was she a total newbie to the ring, she also had a language barrier with the judge. 

Consider how for years people used to take their dogs to training clubs where old fashioned and abusive methods including shock collars and helicoptering were used to "dominate" the dogs. I know good people who have trained in those ways in the past as a result of bad advice. Why? Well they went to a place where they thought they would find expertise. It is the same reason people continue to watch Caesar. When we know more, we do better. 

This judge is using an old technique I have seen employed by "old-fashioned" dog trainers showing the dog where the end of the table is. I believe she ended up in a "power-struggle" with the pup and was using dominance theory to force her will. It seemed that even that continued to go beyond her control and as someone said it became DOG RAGE. 



Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I went to bed last night thinking about all of our responses to this thread. I really try to be objective and fair. And, I admit, that yes, I came down hard on both the judge and the handler (or, whatever her title is). But, that is my honest opinion ... and, it still is. It does not mean that I don't listen and respect other opinions.
> 
> The reason I feel so strongly with my opinion about both the judge and handler ... is that I would hope, no matter how shocked one might have felt with the judge's actions in regard to abusing the dog ... that one would have picked up the dog, and been out of there, period. I, personally, would have protected that precious dog ... just like I would a skin child or baby, who was helpless and needed to be protected. So, therefore, it is hard for me to understand, why anyone else ... who truly cared for the well being of a helpless animal, would not have done the same thing.
> 
> Yes, there are circumstances in life when we might be in shock, or when one is not sure what to do at a particular moment. However, when it comes to a human being, or a living animal, that depends on us to protect them ... then I think most of us know what we would do.


As for the terminology, it gets confusing. When I show my own dogs I am both an exhibitor and a handler. But I am an owner handler. However, often when we talk about handlers in the dog world we are talking about the Professionals. I think Mary is trying to help us achieve some clarity on a terminology that can be somewhat muddied. This person is an owner-handler. She is not a professional. In fact, she is a novice exhibitor. 

Now, what would I have done in the same situation? I don't know. I tend to freeze in a crisis sometimes, so I can't honestly say I would not have frozen for a few moments here. I hope that in the face of that kind of abuse to one of my pups, I would have told the judge to stop in whatever language worked, and I hope I would have taken my dog out of there. 

But in a way, I feel like blaming the exhibitor (owner-handler) is somewhat like blaming the "other" victim. 

Truly this experience could destroy both the pup for the ring and this newbie exhibitor.


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## Twinkle (Apr 24, 2010)

aww that is so sad. Poor little guy was so startled, couldn't even walk right =/ Poor baby. I would have been upset if someone handled my baby like that. I would have slapped her.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

deleted---mistake


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## Luna'sMom (Oct 7, 2007)

I'm pretty sure that complaints have been made - the video was made as evidence because previous complaints couldn't be followed through as there was no evidence...\

I believe she is going to be thrown out of the FCI.

Absolutely appalling imo. The poor Maltese was terrified!


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## sunnycleveland (Apr 3, 2010)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Just something to think about. Not everyone has the same level of confidence. How many of us on this board shared stories of how we allowed ourselves to be 'pressured' or 'bullied' into choices we weren't the most comfortable with by our vets because they are supposed to be the experts?
> 
> And I remember a post not too long ago about what we should be able to freely ask breeders as far as whether they have done certain tests, and there were quite a few of us who admitted it's an uncomfortable/awkward situation because they are supposed to be the experts, and some did not ask those questions when they knew they should. And that is not something that happens right at the moment. You have time to email, call, etc...
> 
> ...


 
Good Post!! Even though you may be prepared and know exactly what needs to be done - when the incident happens unexpectedly, its hard to think and act because of the shock...


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## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

I feel as though there have been very good opinions and information posted in this thread and I appreciate the education as I am the first to admit that I know very little about the showing world.

I feel as though we need to take care in what we say about the owner/handler in this situation however as no one truly knows how they would react if placed in her shoes at that exact moment. 

While many of us are able to say we would react far differently than she did - the truth is that you do not know how you would have reacted and now that you have seen this video your reaction is likely to be different than it would have been had this video not been shared. Each experience in our lives cultivates our responses to future experiences; we learn from the success and failures of others and our own sucesses and failures.

I cannot tell you what I would have done at that exact moment, but I can tell you what I would have done after the fact which would be to write to the sponsor of the event, the overseers of the judges calling for the resignation of this judge or her suspension, potentially a re-evaluation of the rules concerning how judges may handle dogs, and potentially consult a lawyer for the emotional suffering and potential abuse of my animal if I truly felt that step was necessary.

My heart goes out to all involved because it is not a situation that sits well with anyone watching the video.


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## mfa (Oct 5, 2009)

poor little baby!! i cant imagine:smcry:
that "judge" needs to be thrown in jail, ugh!!


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## PreciousPrince (Feb 27, 2006)

Even if the exhibitor was shocked, frozen, ect.. I think it's easy to get mad at her because she just looked so calm, like that was completely normal. I kept watching her to see what her reaction was and when I didn't see one was when I felt myself getting angry at her as well... 
I do hope that judge is fired and that the pup isn't ruined for future shows because of her. It must've been so scared thinking it was going to be pushed off that table.


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## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

I saw a woman in Macy's parking lot - pick her child up by ONE arm, screaming at him/her - I shouted "HEY, STOP THAT NOW" - she came over to me with her child and apologized to me - (for her behavior with her own child). She said that she was "stressed to the max."

I would NEVER hurt a soul - BUT, I do feel as though those people watching the judge act like that - were NOT the folks I'd take sailing with me - you have to have COMMON sense to sail.

I don’t give a crap about a CV - of you lack common sense - the CV is worthless, in my opinion.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Hunter's Mom said:


> I feel as though there have been very good opinions and information posted in this thread and I appreciate the education as I am the first to admit that I know very little about the showing world.
> 
> I feel as though we need to take care in what we say about the owner/handler in this situation however as no one truly knows how they would react if placed in her shoes at that exact moment.
> 
> ...


Great points, Erin!!! :thumbsup:


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Sandcastles said:


> I saw a woman in Macy's parking lot - pick her child up by ONE arm, screaming at him/her - I shouted "HEY, STOP THAT NOW" - she came over to me with her child and apologized to me - (for her behavior with her own child). She said that she was "stressed to the max."
> 
> I would NEVER hurt a soul - BUT, I do feel as though those people watching the judge act like that - were NOT the folks I'd take sailing with me - you have to have COMMON sense to sail.
> 
> I don’t give a crap about a CV - of you lack common sense - the CV is worthless, in my opinion.


Ok..color me not the brightest crayon in the box. What's a CV? :blink:


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Ok..color me not the brightest crayon in the box. What's a CV? :blink:


I was going to ask the same question. Color me gray. :yes:


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## Maltbabe (Oct 10, 2010)

curriculum vitae AKA RESUME


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Ok..color me not the brightest crayon in the box. What's a CV? :blink:





Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I was going to ask the same question. Color me gray. :yes:


 
I wonder if this is what Allie was talking about: 
_*Curriculum Vitae*_ (CV). It is Latin for "course of one's life." ​ 

I think maybe she was referring to Erin's post:​ 




Hunter's Mom said:


> Each experience in our lives cultivates our responses to future experiences; we learn from the success and failures of others and our own sucesses and failures.​





​


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I was going to ask the same question. Color me gray. :yes:


:HistericalSmiley: I'll be beige. :blush:


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## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

My reference to sailing - was - if you are out in the middle of the Atlantic ocean, and you lose your navigational equipment, you want people with common sense, on your team - the analogies are endless - a fire in the middle of the night - a car accident - an aircraft fire - - - - you want someone who thinks, outside the box.

I was NOT making reference to Erin’s post - I was simply stating that - yes, I know that we all act differently in stressful situations - but for anyone to come to the defense of that judge - is beyond comprehension.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Sandcastles said:


> My reference to sailing - was - if you are out in the middle of the Atlantic ocean, and you lose your navigational equipment, you want people with common sense, on your team - the analogies are endless - a fire in the middle of the night - a car accident - an aircraft fire - - - - you want someone who thinks, outside the box.
> 
> I was NOT making reference to Erin’s post - I was simply stating that - yes, I know that we all act differently in stressful situations - but for anyone to come to the defense of that judge - is beyond comprehension.


Oh gosh, I admit I've scanned some of the replies but I don't think anyone has even remotely tried to defend the judge. Some, myself included, feel perhaps we shouldn't be judging the novice breeder/exhibitor to harshly since we really don't know what it's like to walk in her shoes. I better go back and re-read this thread more carefully before I reply anymore. I am in no way defending the judge at all. I even stated that there was no excuse for her behavior.

So...does CV mean _*Curriculum Vitae?*_


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

My post earlier referred to what I felt was inexcusable actions by the judge. I just felt the breeder/exhibitor should have taken the dog away from that environment. I understand about what Erin and Mary said about not knowing what you'd do in that situation but as a mother who brought up a son for 20 years, if i ever saw anyone lay a hand on him the way that judge handled that dog, say a teacher, my mommy instinct, animal instinct or whatever it is would have been there. I would grab my child/dog so fast it would have made her head spin. As a parent it's a reflex, you will put your life on the line for that child. I feel the same way about Tyler. When something happens to, or is about to happen to your child, you don't even think, you react to save the most precious thing in the world. JMHO.


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## Miss_Annie (Mar 3, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> My post earlier referred to what I felt was inexcusable actions by the judge. I just felt the breeder/exhibitor should have taken the dog away from that environment. I understand about what Erin and Mary said about not knowing what you'd do in that situation but as a mother who brought up a son for 20 years, if i ever saw anyone lay a hand on him the way that judge handled that dog, say a teacher, my mommy instinct, animal instinct or whatever it is would have been there. I would grab my child/dog so fast it would have made her head spin. As a parent it's a reflex, you will put your life on the line for that child. I feel the same way about Tyler. When something happens to, or is about to happen to your child, you don't even think, you react to save the most precious thing in the world. JMHO.


:goodpost:


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Snowbody said:


> My post earlier referred to what I felt was inexcusable actions by the judge. I just felt the breeder/exhibitor should have taken the dog away from that environment. I understand about what Erin and Mary said about not knowing what you'd do in that situation but as a mother who brought up a son for 20 years, if i ever saw anyone lay a hand on him the way that judge handled that dog, say a teacher, my mommy instinct, animal instinct or whatever it is would have been there. I would grab my child/dog so fast it would have made her head spin. As a parent it's a reflex, you will put your life on the line for that child. I feel the same way about Tyler. When something happens to, or is about to happen to your child, you don't even think, you react to save the most precious thing in the world. JMHO.


 

:goodpost: That's exactly how i feel!


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Snowbody said:


> My post earlier referred to what I felt was inexcusable actions by the judge. I just felt the breeder/exhibitor should have taken the dog away from that environment. I understand about what Erin and Mary said about not knowing what you'd do in that situation but as a mother who brought up a son for 20 years, if i ever saw anyone lay a hand on him the way that judge handled that dog, say a teacher, my mommy instinct, animal instinct or whatever it is would have been there. I would grab my child/dog so fast it would have made her head spin. As a parent it's a reflex, you will put your life on the line for that child. I feel the same way about Tyler. When something happens to, or is about to happen to your child, you don't even think, you react to save the most precious thing in the world. JMHO.


:goodpost: That's how I feel and what I was trying to express. You did a much better job. Thank you, Sue.


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## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> My post earlier referred to what I felt was inexcusable actions by the judge. I just felt the breeder/exhibitor should have taken the dog away from that environment. I understand about what Erin and Mary said about not knowing what you'd do in that situation but as a mother who brought up a son for 20 years, if i ever saw anyone lay a hand on him the way that judge handled that dog, say a teacher, my mommy instinct, animal instinct or whatever it is would have been there. I would grab my child/dog so fast it would have made her head spin. As a parent it's a reflex, you will put your life on the line for that child. I feel the same way about Tyler. When something happens to, or is about to happen to your child, you don't even think, you react to save the most precious thing in the world. JMHO.


BRAVO! GREAT POST! - Now, that's a person that you WANT, NEED on your team! "TEAM SUSAN" -


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

This thread is making me very nervous. Does this mean that some SM'rs who have developed some good relationships here may no longer have those good relationships?

I'm thinking really outside the box here. I have no way of knowing anything about the breeder/exhibitor. But as an example, a woman who has been so badly abused either emotionally, psycologically, physically, or a combination may have a very difficult time standing up for herself or her children in the face of a stressful situation where they have no experience and lack total confidence. They may at a later point in time leave, or not participate in the future, or equip themselves to be prepared in case there is a next time. But not everyone is capable of responding in a correct manner in the face of something like this. And again I'm speaking about the Breeder/Exhibitor and not the Judge. I think she needs some one on one time with Victoria Stillwell myself.


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## njdrake (Apr 23, 2007)

That's exactly what I was thinking too. I feel sure I would have grabbed my dog and left without even thinking about it. You do it from instinct. I don't need to say more, I think Susan did an excellent job in expressing what I wanted to say. :thumbsup:
I really hope that judge never gets in another dog show much less judging one! There's really no excuse for the way she treated that poor frightened pup.

I forgot to put in the quote from Susan's post! :w00t:
Mine would make much more sense if I had.:blink:
ANYWAY ..... what Susan said....:blush:


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm not judging anyone because I don't know them, and I wasn't there in person. But I know exactly what I would have done in that situation. If I were the handler/exhibitor and this happened to me and my dog, I would have taken my dog and left. That is what I meant in my previous post.


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## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

Crystal,

I would hope not. I think that we all have the intellectual ability to hypothesize our mistakes and move forward -

I’m through responding to this thread.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Sandcastles said:


> Crystal,
> 
> I would hope not. I think that we all have the intellectual ability to hypothesize our mistakes and move forward -
> 
> I’m through responding to this thread.


I hope not too. I dearly love everyone who has been responding in this thread and I would be crushed if I thought that any relationships (whether it includes me or not) would be affected. I think I'll be avoiding this thread as well.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> *This thread is making me very nervous. Does this mean that some SM'rs who have developed some good relationships here may no longer have those good relationships?*
> 
> I'm thinking really outside the box here. I have no way of knowing anything about the breeder/exhibitor. But as an example, a woman who has been so badly abused either emotionally, psycologically, physically, or a combination may have a very difficult time standing up for herself or her children in the face of a stressful situation where they have no experience and lack total confidence. They may at a later point in time leave, or not participate in the future, or equip themselves to be prepared in case there is a next time. But not everyone is capable of responding in a correct manner in the face of something like this. And again I'm speaking about the Breeder/Exhibitor and not the Judge. I think she needs some one on one time with Victoria Stillwell myself.


Crystal - I may be completely missing the point of what you're saying here in your opening comment. I think we all should be capable of giving our opinions and listening to others. I think we're trying to do that and I'm not condemning anyone other than the judge. We should be able to agree to disagree without losing an SM relationship. Or isn't that what your mean? I'm kind of lost.
I'm not blaming, nor do I know anything about the exhibitor/breeder. I'm just saying what I would have done in that case...I don't even know if I'd use the word done, more reacted. So it isn't even a matter of choice to me; it's just how I feel as a mother. Can't help it. I've read about heroic feats where a man will lift a car to get it off his child who's been run over. We're all tested in some way. Obviously, not everyone reacts the same. I don't think you can really compare the case of a woman facing what you've described above with this case. To me it's apples and oranges, but I do agree that Victoria Stillwell would be a good call.


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## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> This thread is making me very nervous. Does this mean that some SM'rs who have developed some good relationships here may no longer have those good relationships?


I can't imagine this would be the case Crystal. Adults should be able to have intellegant conversations and even disagree on points and still remain friends 

I suppose it could be interpreted that I am defending the judge (which I will be clear that I am not). 

However, I am being cautious in speaking too harshly about her because (1) I am viewing a video of an event that, in general, I am not familiar with & (2) that took place in a foreign country whose practices and cultural differences in this type of event I know nothing about. I'm not clear if this is an acceptable approach to "re-stacking" in Spain, or with this kennel. I'm also not clear if this is a common occurance with this judge and therefore accepted. It seems as though it is not and therefore this particular judge should face the consequences of her actions but again, I am not certain what those consequences would be and what part of her actions were "techinically" improper (which is a bad word choice but a more appropriate word is escaping me at the moment) compared to what I considered abuse.

PS. Allie - I understood your sailing reference and that you were not responding to my post


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> This thread is making me very nervous. Does this mean that some SM'rs who have developed some good relationships here may no longer have those good relationships?
> 
> I'm thinking really outside the box here. I have no way of knowing anything about the breeder/exhibitor. But as an example, a woman who has been so badly abused either emotionally, psycologically, physically, or a combination may have a very difficult time standing up for herself or her children in the face of a stressful situation where they have no experience and lack total confidence. They may at a later point in time leave, or not participate in the future, or equip themselves to be prepared in case there is a next time. But not everyone is capable of responding in a correct manner in the face of something like this. And again I'm speaking about the Breeder/Exhibitor and not the Judge. I think she needs some one on one time with Victoria Stillwell myself.



I understand completely what you are saying, Crystal. And, you are right. I am okay now ... but, having been abused by my step-father as a child, and having had an abusive husband ... it took a long time, and lots of therapy, for me to learn and stand up for myself. 

As far as SM friendships ... I have never held a grudge against anyone just because we might not agree on an issue or subject. I would worry more if everyone agreed on everything! I question more the person who feels the need to agree with everything and can't handle a subject such as we are discussing. 

I thought of Victoria Stillwell, too. I responded and applauded her on FB for her personal opinion on Michael Vick. I think she truly loves animals and is not in it just for the money and fame. So, yes, maybe she could help the owner/exhibitor.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Sandcastles said:


> Crystal,
> 
> I would hope not. I think that we all have the intellectual ability to hypothesize our mistakes and move forward -
> 
> I’m through responding to this thread.





Crystal&Zoe said:


> I hope not too. I dearly love everyone who has been responding in this thread and I would be crushed if I thought that any relationships (whether it includes me or not) would be affected. I think I'll be avoiding this thread as well.


It always seems to end up this way with these kind of discussions on SM. I thought we were all ending up to have a fair and healthy discussion. I never felt as though anybody was attacking anyone else. Oh, well. Guess I'm just naive. 

Sleep well my friends. Love and hugs.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> It always seems to end up this way with these kind of discussions on SM. I thought we were all ending up to have a fair and healthy discussion. I never felt as though anybody was attacking anyone else. Oh, well. Guess I'm just naive.
> 
> Sleep well my friends. Love and hugs.



Oh gosh I'm really not conveying my thoughts well at all tonight. Chalk it up to lack of sleep. I assure everyone that I have absolutely no harsh feelings towards anyone. :grouphug:


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> *in the face of a stressful situation where they have no experience and lack total confidence.*


A typical show day for an owner exhibitor ... Wake up pre-dawn. Potty all dogs, feed all dogs, fill all water bowls, replace all potty pads. Bathe and dry show dog, trim feet and coat, iron coat. Gather up grooming equipment, pack food and beverage for both dog and human, ex-pen, potty pads, grooming table, ringside table and chair and load all into the car. Shower, dress, pour coffee into travel mug, put show dog in crate, carry crated dog to car and drive 1 to 3 hours to show site. Drive around and around only to find a parking space in the back of beyond. Unload everything and carry into show site (usually at least two trips). Get into show site and hunt, beg and plead for a tiny bit of grooming space. Potty dog. Rewash back skirt and feet if needed. Iron coat again to get out the wrinkles from the 1 to 3 hour drive. Do top knots (with very shaky hands). Check contents of ringside bag. Beg someone to watch your dog so that you can carry ringside table to the ring. Pick up armband. Go get dog (who is now concerned that you've left him/her with a stranger for a couple of minutes) and carry him/her to ringside. Settle dog on table and start brushing again. Do all this while trying to be polite and informative to spectators who want to pat your beautiful dog and ask questions about the dog and the breed. Time to go in the ring to show the dog. I'm new to this, very nervous (and about to pee my pants because there was no one to watch my dog), exhausted because I've already been on the go for 8 or more hours, and the handling class that I've attended for the past four months never prepared me for the sights, sounds, crowds and lack of space; never prepared me for fact that other exhibitors who are also stressed aren't going to be friendly, helpful or even understanding of my emotional state; and never prepared me for the fact that a judge might beat up on my dog. My nerves are shot and I'm not thinking clearly or quickly.

Are there options? Of course. I can travel to the show the night before, hire a petsitter to care for my other dogs, pay for a hotel room and hope that both my dog and I can get some sleep in a strange place while worrying that my other dogs are not missing us too much. Or I can send my dog to live with a handler, in a strange environment with other strange dogs for an indefinite period of time (generally at least a couple of months). Or I can forego showing, breed my quality dogs to produce quality puppies and suffer the accusations of being a BYB who doesn't show. Or I can not show or breed ... and when enough of us do that then there will be nowhere to buy a nice dog who was bred by someone who cares enough to try to do it all the right way.

There was no excuse for what the judge did to that puppy. And there has been no post in this thread defending the judge's actions.


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## 08chrissy08 (Sep 19, 2008)

That's terrible! That poor puppy is terrified of her! That poor baby. I really hope that it doesn't cause permanent issues with her.


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## puppy lover (Dec 25, 2007)

Even if the exhibitor was alert and refreshed it can take the brain a while to process an event when a person is expecting the total opposite. The fact that she was probably nervous/under stress, possibly exhausted, as you point out, would have added to the slow reaction time. So I believe her non-reaction is no indication of how much the exhibitor cares for her dog. 

And even if people believe the exhibitor could have done something, I don't think anyone thinks less of you (as you indicated in another post). I think it's obvious that you and the others involved in showing/breeding on SM care deeply for your dogs and are committed to their well-being.:heart:

So heartbreaking to watch the video.





MaryH said:


> A typical show day for an owner exhibitor ... Wake up pre-dawn. Potty all dogs, feed all dogs, fill all water bowls, replace all potty pads. Bathe and dry show dog, trim feet and coat, iron coat. Gather up grooming equipment, pack food and beverage for both dog and human, ex-pen, potty pads, grooming table, ringside table and chair and load all into the car. Shower, dress, pour coffee into travel mug, put show dog in crate, carry crated dog to car and drive 1 to 3 hours to show site. Drive around and around only to find a parking space in the back of beyond. Unload everything and carry into show site (usually at least two trips). Get into show site and hunt, beg and plead for a tiny bit of grooming space. Potty dog. Rewash back skirt and feet if needed. Iron coat again to get out the wrinkles from the 1 to 3 hour drive. Do top knots (with very shaky hands). Check contents of ringside bag. Beg someone to watch your dog so that you can carry ringside table to the ring. Pick up armband. Go get dog (who is now concerned that you've left him/her with a stranger for a couple of minutes) and carry him/her to ringside. Settle dog on table and start brushing again. Do all this while trying to be polite and informative to spectators who want to pat your beautiful dog and ask questions about the dog and the breed. Time to go in the ring to show the dog. I'm new to this, very nervous (and about to pee my pants because there was no one to watch my dog), exhausted because I've already been on the go for 8 or more hours, and the handling class that I've attended for the past four months never prepared me for the sights, sounds, crowds and lack of space; never prepared me for fact that other exhibitors who are also stressed aren't going to be friendly, helpful or even understanding of my emotional state; and never prepared me for the fact that a judge might beat up on my dog. My nerves are shot and I'm not thinking clearly or quickly.
> 
> Are there options? Of course. I can travel to the show the night before, hire a petsitter to care for my other dogs, pay for a hotel room and hope that both my dog and I can get some sleep in a strange place while worrying that my other dogs are not missing us too much. Or I can send my dog to live with a handler, in a strange environment with other strange dogs for an indefinite period of time (generally at least a couple of months). Or I can forego showing, breed my quality dogs to produce quality puppies and suffer the accusations of being a BYB who doesn't show. Or I can not show or breed ... and when enough of us do that then there will be nowhere to buy a nice dog who was bred by someone who cares enough to try to do it all the right way.
> 
> There was no excuse for what the judge did to that puppy. And there has been no post in this thread defending the judge's actions.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I agree with Mary that no one, NO ONE here, has defended the judge---she is totally without excuse! Carefully read ALL of what is written.
Are we defending the exhibitor--YES, I certainly am & from what is written, I believe some others are. I think the exhibitor was treated like the enemy, and the wrath spent on her should have been spent only on the judge. 
I appreciate Erin's comments on how to APPROPRIATELY address our anger over the mistreatment of this helpless animal. The purpose isn't to alleviate MY disgust but to attempt to help set up a system that will guarantee that these sort of things don't happen again in any country!
If a person choses to think less of me for taking this stand---that is totally out of my hands. I stand by my decision to defend the exhibitor.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Just something to think about. Not everyone has the same level of confidence. How many of us on this board shared stories of how we allowed ourselves to be 'pressured' or 'bullied' into choices we weren't the most comfortable with by our vets because they are supposed to be the experts?
> 
> And I remember a post not too long ago about what we should be able to freely ask breeders as far as whether they have done certain tests, and there were quite a few of us who admitted it's an uncomfortable/awkward situation because they are supposed to be the experts, and some did not ask those questions when they knew they should. And that is not something that happens right at the moment. You have time to email, call, etc...
> 
> ...





Hunter's Mom said:


> I feel as though there have been very good opinions and information posted in this thread and I appreciate the education as I am the first to admit that I know very little about the showing world.
> 
> I feel as though we need to take care in what we say about the owner/handler in this situation however as no one truly knows how they would react if placed in her shoes at that exact moment.
> 
> ...


Erin and Crystal, both of you did a terrific job in your post. Each and everyone of us in our hearts, minds and everywhere, love furbabies, and would protect them with our lives, myself included. But both of you, did such a tremendous job, in bringing in reality, as we are watching a very disturbing video, and not right there at that moment. Nor, have most of us been in that situation. The video breaks my heart. As much as I didn't want to, I had to watch it several times, because my eyes, just could not comprehend what I was seeing, I WAS IN SHOCK, I was in desbelief, at the way the judge was handling the littel fur baby. I WAS stunned, frozen.

Both of you expressed yourselfs way better than I ever could. Well done.

Bless that little Malt. And I tell you what, if you notice when he was walking away, he pranced, and what a beauty he is. But what a smart little precious baby, when it was time to go back, to the area where the judge was NOPE. Yes, I am sure he was frieghtened, but also VERY SMART to know, I am going no where near that lady again. Good for you little furbaby. 

I think those that have been around SM long enough, know me well enough, how deeply I LOVE animals, as well as children and the elderly. All are vulnerable. 

There were times, by instinct, at a vets office, I leaped right into action. There was no stopping me. Sadly, there was one time, that I froze. It was with my sweet Kara (RIP), this is the God's truth, my Kara DID NOT BARK. Perhaps once in a blue moon a cute little playful bark, but she was NOT a barker. My Mom swore she didn't know how, but of course she did. She just didn't see the need to :wub: Very Very long story short, Kara was just having a dental, and it was a long day, way to long for hubby and my liking, all we wanted was our baby back in our arms. We finally get the call to come and get her (they did have some emergency surgeries that day, as hubby and I were calling for status checks), and I'm telling you, all I wanted was Kara in my arms. We are called to the back, no Kara, just a vet tech. She proceeds to tell me, how it went, blah blah blah, and both hubby and I can hear our sweet baby calling out to us. I stoped the tech, and said, PLEASE could you bring her to us now, and then explain what you need to. The tech stated "It is our policy, to speak to the owners first, before we bring them their pet" Indside I was :exploding:, so we just uh huh the tech to death to rush her, couldn't hear a word she was saying, and then she went and brought my precious Kara to us. THEN I asked the tech questions about how everything went as sweet Kara layed happily in my arms. To this day, I regret SO MUCH, not demanding for her to go and get Kara NOW. Oh if I could have that moment back, you have no idea. And I promise you, my Kara was NOT a barker. It kills me to even have to relive that. Oh, it's no comparison I know, but I would move heaven and earth for my furbabies, as well as any furbabies, but I honestly will never in my heart forgive myself for not demanding at that moment, to get my baby now. I froze, I didn't want to do anything wrong, but more than anything, I just wanted my baby in my arms as did hubby. We were in stunned silence. Yes, it was a dental, she did beautifully, but that was not the point and if I had that day back, you bet I would have handled it differently. BIG TIME. May seem a minor issue, what's 5 minutes, but NO, I know my baby and I know what she wanted. But since that moment, I have never froze again, or even prior to that, with my other furbabies.

The only other time I froze, was when Kara was in the hospital, and was NOT supposed to die. My normal vet, as well as the hospital, was starting to introduce her to insulin. She did beautiful up until 12 mindnight. Shift change, new nurse comes on, gives Kara more insulin and my sweet Kara is gone at 1 hour later. We told the hospital (which is not our normal vets) to call anytime, no matter what time it is to PLEASE call us. Do you know when they called us 7 am, they should have called the moment this happened to her. We rush to go see our baby, who looked so peaceful, bless her, and said our goodbyes, and the tech, comes in, and we said, it's okay, you can take her now, we are just waiting for the doctor. As we wanted some sort of explanation, something. The tech said, it the nastiest voice, "You want to see the Doctor??????". As if, what's the point? I was stunned at her response, and just said quietly, yes please, we wish to see the doctor, but was horrified inside, numb frozen, and wanted to make sure I wasn't taken my grief out on anyone. But trust me, the tech was NOT kind at all. Needless to say we do NOT use that hospital anymore.

Grant you, my experiences are different than what is shown on the video, but sadly, I can relate, to the shock and paralization, as to what I can hardly believe, I am seeing or hearing.

Now, those were the two times I did freeze, but I also pushed Dr. C, who I LOVE, the ortho specialist, out of instinct, when examining Kara, who had tore her ACL. OMG how she cried when it happened. We got her in a comfortable position, and rushed off to Dr. C we went. He had to examine her, by then, whe wasn't crying anymore, but as he examined her, at one point, she let out a cry :crying:, that's when I instictively pushed him :blush:, bless his heart, he just smiled at me, and I apologized all over the place.

The video is heartbreaking, bless that little fluff and the handler, who is the owner, who is new, we were not in her shoes. I seriously doubt she froze, because she wanted to win, oh heavens no. I don't know a thing about showing, I can only imagine the stress, especially being new. I bet she is devesated and the precious little fluff, bless his soul, is probably now, getting so much love and hugs and reassurance. And I bet she wishes she could have that moment back. I think, and am pretty sure, as to what I would do, but we actually don't know for sure, unless we are smack dab in that situation. Watching the video, after the fact, of course we all feel what we would do, but we were not in that moment.

As far as the judge, as I said, I unfortunately had to watch that video several times, as I just could not believe what I was seeing. I have no kind words for the judge, at all. 

I am just so proud of that little fluff, how smart and special he is, he knew NOPE, not going back to her!


Let's just put all our love and support and send tons of good thoughts to that precious furbaby and to all who were victimized by this event.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

puppy lover said:


> Even if the exhibitor was alert and refreshed it can take the brain a while to process an event when a person is expecting the total opposite. The fact that she was probably nervous/under stress, possibly exhausted, as you point out, would have added to the slow reaction time. So I believe her non-reaction is no indication of how much the exhibitor cares for her dog.
> 
> And even if people believe the exhibitor could have done something, I don't think anyone thinks less of you (as you indicated in another post). *I think it's obvious that you and the others involved in showing/breeding on SM care deeply for your dogs and are committed to their well-being.:heart:*
> 
> So heartbreaking to watch the video.


Very well said and very true :thumbsup:


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

allheart said:


> Erin and Crystal, both of you did a terrific job in your post. Each and everyone of us in our hearts, minds and everywhere, love furbabies, and would protect them with our lives, myself included. But both of you, did such a tremendous job, in bringing in reality, as we are watching a very disturbing video, and not right there at that moment. Nor, have most of us been in that situation. The video breaks my heart. As much as I didn't want to, I had to watch it several times, because my eyes, just could not comprehend what I was seeing, I WAS IN SHOCK, I was in desbelief, at the way the judge was handling the littel fur baby. I WAS stunned, frozen. .......


Great post, *Christine*! I can absolutely see how you could "be nice" in those situations you mentioned. I think we all react differently, perhaps based on our upbringing. I was brought up in the southern US and always got the message from my parents in words and actions to "be nice" .. "don't make waves" ... "forget it" ... "let it be"... etc. So, I am "hard wired" to try not to make other people angry ... even if they are not deserving of my doing so.

As *Erin* and *puppy lover* (great post #85, BTW) say, we don't know how we might react in the situation in the video. I would hope that I would grab my pup off the table but I honestly don't know for sure as I might hear in my head... "be nice". 

And I try not to be judgemental ... I remember my mother telling me when I was growing up ... "I don't like to talk badly about other people's children ... I never know what mine might do." :w00t:


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

I've been out of town all week, but must add another two-cents ~ LOL

REALLY?? Shocked, and do NOTHING??

That's weird. I know exactly what my reaction would be. Are you kidding, mess with dogs? 

A couple years back, I had visitors over for a few days. They were doing the Disney Land "thing". When the 3-year-old socked LBB in the face, I was not in shock. I grabbed her arm, said a few choice words, put all the dogs upstairs, and asked them to leave. 

I must say, folks can make fun of my dogs all day long, but not lay a hand on them. Not frighten them. Not make them uncomfortable. I deal with that within seconds. 

My dogs look to me for help. I would never stand by, in shock. Nor would I show a dog, who is not "Lovin" the show ring.


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Seems I missed this whole thing as I was away....and now the video has been taken down so I never got to see it at all. The only thing I can comment on is how I might have felt if I was showing a dog being mistreated by a judge.

I was always new to the show world (my entire career was about 6 months, LOL). It was very exciting and nerve wracking and a bit intimidating with all the beautiful show dogs all around. I had gone to handling classes each week and gone to shows, but it is very different when you are in the ring....especially for me...being very shy. It always seemed to me that the judges were the "supreme" beings at shows and I always felt a bit awkward and inadaquate. It's a whole other world in the show ring and being unfamiliar with everything I tried to "fit in" and handle myself in a professional manner. I've never encountered a judge being rough with Ava, but one was pretty mean to me personally (my opinion). I should have kept my mouth shut and smiled and thanked her, but instead I stuttered and made a fool of myself. (she told me my dog shouldn't even be in the ring!). Why didn't she just not give us a ribbon???? She hurt my feelings and I let her. Thinking back now....that made me mad. So what am I getting at?....I understand how the unexperienced handler felt. I bet she or he's mad now though. Honestly, I don't know how I would have handled a judge mistreating Ava. Hind sight is very clear, but it's in the moment that gets a bit distorted.

I just rambled on...hope I made some sense.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

The A Team said:


> Seems I missed this whole thing as I was away....and now the video has been taken down so I never got to see it at all. The only thing I can comment on is how I might have felt if I was showing a dog being mistreated by a judge.
> 
> I was always new to the show world (my entire career was about 6 months, LOL). It was very exciting and nerve wracking and a bit intimidating with all the beautiful show dogs all around. I had gone to handling classes each week and gone to shows, but it is very different when you are in the ring....especially for me...being very shy. It always seemed to me that the judges were the "supreme" beings at shows and I always felt a bit awkward and inadaquate. It's a whole other world in the show ring and being unfamiliar with everything I tried to "fit in" and handle myself in a professional manner. I've never encountered a judge being rough with Ava, but one was pretty mean to me personally (my opinion). I should have kept my mouth shut and smiled and thanked her, but instead I stuttered and made a fool of myself. (she told me my dog shouldn't even be in the ring!). Why didn't she just not give us a ribbon???? She hurt my feelings and I let her. Thinking back now....that made me mad. So what am I getting at?....I understand how the unexperienced handler felt. I bet she or he's mad now though. Honestly, I don't know how I would have handled a judge mistreating Ava. Hind sight is very clear, but it's in the moment that gets a bit distorted.
> 
> I just rambled on...hope I made some sense.


 
Pat, my gosh, you made perfect sense. Hugs to you and Ava, and of course your whole gang. You gave such incredible insight to how a newbie feels in the ring, and even encountered a judge who IMO had no business saying that to sweet Ava . Those types of things just throw you, and you didn't ramble on at all. You gave really good insight.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

The A Team said:


> Seems I missed this whole thing as I was away....and now the video has been taken down so I never got to see it at all. The only thing I can comment on is how I might have felt if I was showing a dog being mistreated by a judge.
> 
> I was always new to the show world (my entire career was about 6 months, LOL). It was very exciting and nerve wracking and a bit intimidating with all the beautiful show dogs all around. I had gone to handling classes each week and gone to shows, but it is very different when you are in the ring....especially for me...being very shy. It always seemed to me that the judges were the "supreme" beings at shows and I always felt a bit awkward and inadaquate. It's a whole other world in the show ring and being unfamiliar with everything I tried to "fit in" and handle myself in a professional manner. I've never encountered a judge being rough with Ava, but one was pretty mean to me personally (my opinion). I should have kept my mouth shut and smiled and thanked her, but instead I stuttered and made a fool of myself. (she told me my dog shouldn't even be in the ring!). Why didn't she just not give us a ribbon???? She hurt my feelings and I let her. Thinking back now....that made me mad. So what am I getting at?....I understand how the unexperienced handler felt. I bet she or he's mad now though. Honestly, I don't know how I would have handled a judge mistreating Ava. Hind sight is very clear, but it's in the moment that gets a bit distorted.
> 
> I just rambled on...hope I made some sense.


:goodpost: I think anyone who has been in the ring will understand what you have said Pat. Thank you for posting.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

myfairlacy said:


> I know that when a dog won't stack right that sometimes the handler will pick them up and rock them back and forth and try to restack them. I've seen this done many times. That's what it looks like the judge was trying to do to me, but the puppy freaked out. I'm not so sure that the judge is abusing the dog, but it does look like she's being too forceful, especially with a puppy.


I'm just getting to responding to this thread although I did see the vid once.
You are correct. The judge was trying to teach the dog to stand near the edge of the table for examination. It's an old trick to hold the dog securely and tip the front over the table a bit teaching the dog she will not fall. I believe the judge decided to teach this new handler and in the process went beyond when the dog rejected the judge's instruction. I think the handler was trusting the judge knew what she was doing and that is why she didn't stop her. I don't know how long this went on, but it was too long and I'm sure the judge will be penalized for it.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

3Maltmom said:


> I've been out of town all week, but must add another two-cents ~ LOL
> 
> REALLY?? Shocked, and do NOTHING??
> 
> ...



:goodpost:


I agree. A long time ago, a friend of mine brought his new girlfriend over and she thought it would be fun to bounce my Bichon off her knees and flip her in mid-air. I went ballistic, but unfortunately it was too late. My Bichon was diagnosed with a ruptured disc in her back and was in pain for years, and finally required extensive surgery. So being burned once, I generally don't let people touch my dogs unless I know them well. I've had to pull Nikki away from my well-meaning step grandkids a couple of times. Now they are not allowed to touch her. 

I understand everyone's comments and thoughts here, and I can certainly understand the handler's reluctance to act, for whatever reasons. I'm not judging her.

However I don't agree that all of us here really don't know what we'd do in her situation. Once you've experienced someone hurting your beloved dog whether on purpose or not, I think that some of us would know EXACTLY what we would do in that situation. JMO.


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

OMG Suzan - how awful!!!!

I wonder how the little show puppy is doing/performing now? I wonder if the judge is still judging?


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

The A Team said:


> Seems I missed this whole thing as I was away....and now the video has been taken down so I never got to see it at all. The only thing I can comment on is how I might have felt if I was showing a dog being mistreated by a judge.
> 
> I was always new to the show world (my entire career was about 6 months, LOL). It was very exciting and nerve wracking and a bit intimidating with all the beautiful show dogs all around. I had gone to handling classes each week and gone to shows, but it is very different when you are in the ring....especially for me...being very shy. It always seemed to me that the judges were the "supreme" beings at shows and I always felt a bit awkward and inadaquate. It's a whole other world in the show ring and being unfamiliar with everything I tried to "fit in" and handle myself in a professional manner. I've never encountered a judge being rough with Ava, but one was pretty mean to me personally (my opinion). I should have kept my mouth shut and smiled and thanked her, but instead I stuttered and made a fool of myself. (she told me my dog shouldn't even be in the ring!). Why didn't she just not give us a ribbon???? She hurt my feelings and I let her. Thinking back now....that made me mad. So what am I getting at?....I understand how the unexperienced handler felt. I bet she or he's mad now though. Honestly, I don't know how I would have handled a judge mistreating Ava. Hind sight is very clear, but it's in the moment that gets a bit distorted.
> 
> I just rambled on...hope I made some sense.


Pat, you made some great points and had great insight for us. I think this situation with the video is particularly "interesting" because we aren't talking about a child, friend, etc. but someone who is seen to us as being in authority. Also, we have no warning .. we might be on alert with a child or stranger, etc. but a show judge is not someone who would get our "antennas" up for expecting any incidents.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

k/c mom said:


> Pat, you made some great points and had great insight for us. I think this situation with the video is particularly "interesting" because we aren't talking about a child, friend, etc. but *someone who is seen to us as being in authority.* Also, we have no warning .. we might be on alert with a child or stranger, etc. but a show judge is not someone who would get our "antennas" up for expecting any incidents.


Yep, and I'm the "authority" figure around here. I don't care who it is.

Don't mess with my dogs.

I was the same way with my babysitter, and my son. Just because she was licensed, did NOT make her an authority in my eyes.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

3Maltmom said:


> Yep, and I'm the "authority" figure around here. I don't care who it is.
> 
> Don't mess with my dogs.
> 
> I was the same way with my babysitter, and my son. Just because she was licensed, did NOT make her an authority in my eyes.


Of course we all feel this way, Deb. The problem sometimes is that some people are just so stunned that they are slow to react. It does not mean that someone in authority and who can be intimidating has the right to be harsh with our pups, ever.

Yes, babysitters, dog groomers ... people who are employed by us we generally are not intimidated by them and we set the rules. But a show judge in a public/judging situation that is brand new for the owner can be intimidating and reaction time can be slowed by the sheer shock of it all.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

k/c mom said:


> Of course we all feel this way, Deb. The problem sometimes is that some people are just so stunned that they are slow to react. It does not mean that someone in authority and who can be intimidating has the right to be harsh with our pups, ever.
> 
> Yes, babysitters, dog groomers ... people who are employed by us we generally are not intimidated by them and we set the rules. But a show judge in a public/judging situation that is brand new for the owner can be intimidating and reaction time can be slowed by the sheer shock of it all.


I understand what you're saying, Sher. I just can't relate to being shocked enough, where nothing is done.

Once again, I don't care who it is. I cannot imagine feeling intimidated, while my dog is "not lovin' life". I would be pissed. Then again, if my dog was not good for the ring, I wouldn't put the dog through it in the first place.

Judges are not that scary in my eyes. Dogs come first. My emotions follow, after all is well with the world, and my dog.

I sure love our handicap show. No stress. The dogs have a blast, and everyone is a winner. I'll stick with that.


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## Rocky's Mom (Apr 10, 2010)

Sher, that is an excellent point!!! :thumbsup:



k/c mom said:


> Pat, you made some great points and had great insight for us. I think this situation with the video is particularly "interesting" because we aren't talking about a child, friend, etc. but someone who is seen to us as being in authority. Also, we have no warning .. we might be on alert with a child or stranger, etc. but a show judge is not someone who would get our "antennas" up for expecting any incidents.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

3Maltmom said:


> I've been out of town all week, but must add another two-cents ~ LOL
> 
> REALLY?? Shocked, and do NOTHING??
> 
> ...





Nikki's Mom said:


> :goodpost:
> 
> 
> I agree. A long time ago, a friend of mine brought his new girlfriend over and she thought it would be fun to bounce my Bichon off her knees and flip her in mid-air. I went ballistic, but unfortunately it was too late. My Bichon was diagnosed with a ruptured disc in her back and was in pain for years, and finally required extensive surgery. So being burned once, I generally don't let people touch my dogs unless I know them well. I've had to pull Nikki away from my well-meaning step grandkids a couple of times. Now they are not allowed to touch her.
> ...


:goodpost:Great posts. But, this is because I can relate to the thoughts expressed here by Suzan and Deb. :goodpost:

As I expressed in an earlier post, it doesn't mean that I don't respect other poster's opinions. If anything, it makes me think further. I'm wondering if the video might help educate future handlers and owners in how to be more prepared to be THE utmost authority figure (not the judge) ... when they see THEIR dog being mishandled, and therefore protecting the emotional and physical well being of their dog in the show ring.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

I respect the fact that people think differently and act differently. What I do not respect is that when someone thinks or acts differently than someone else, one feels that they have the right to call another a loser, a dunce, or accuse another of caring more about the win than they care about the dog. I find name calling and unfounded accusations to be disrespectful at the very least and bordering on abusive behavior.

The cyberbullying that has taken place lately has disturbed me so much. I retreat when it comes to bullying. See you all when it's done with. Until then ... Peace to All ...


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

MaryH said:


> I respect the fact that people think differently and act differently. What I do not respect is that when someone thinks or acts differently than someone else, one feels that they have the right to call another a loser, a dunce, or accuse another of caring more about the win than they care about the dog. I find name calling and unfounded accusations to be disrespectful at the very least and bordering on abusive behavior.
> 
> The cyberbullying that has taken place lately has disturbed me so much. I retreat when it comes to bullying. See you all when it's done with. Until then ... Peace to All ...


Well, I was the one who looked at the judge and handler as losers ... and, caring only about the win. However, I do apologize for apparently sounding so harsh in my judgement. I apologize specifically for referring to the handler as a loser and caring more about the win than the dog. I realize now that I don't know her. 

I do stand by my how I feel in relation to how Sue, Deb, and Suzan expressed how they feel. I feel the same way.

Whoa. I have never ever been called a bully in my life. If I have, it has been without my knowledge ... but, I am not known for having that kind of personality. I do take offense at being called a bully, Mary. However, that is your judgement about me. I am sorry you feel that way. And, I hold no hard feelings against you, Mary. I don't know what else I can say or do to make a wrong right. 

However, I, too, am through with this thread. Bully? Whoa. Bullying - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Marie, I am not referring to you as a bully. I do, however, believe that there has been bully-type behavior throughout this thread ... the judge should be slapped, have her face knocked to the ground a few times, rot in a hole, etc. Statements like this do upset me very much. The judge was wrong in what she did, very very wrong. But I will leave penance for those sins in God's hands.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

MaryH said:


> *I respect the fact that people think differently and act differently. What I do not respect is that when someone thinks or acts differently than someone else, one feels that they have the right to call another a loser, a dunce, or accuse another of caring more about the win than they care about the dog. I find name calling and unfounded accusations to be disrespectful at the very least and bordering on abusive behavior.*
> 
> The cyberbullying that has taken place lately has disturbed me so much. I retreat when it comes to bullying. See you all when it's done with. Until then ... Peace to All ...





MaryH said:


> Marie, I am not referring to you as a bully. I do, however, believe that there has been bully-type behavior throughout this thread ... the judge should be slapped, have her face knocked to the ground a few times, rot in a hole, etc. Statements like this do upset me very much. *The judge was wrong in what she did, very very wrong. But I will leave penance for those sins in God's hands*.


Mary, I just couldn't agree with you more. This thread was sad enough to begin with and has just become more disturbing. Respecting each others viewpoints is essential not only in this thread, but in all threads, and heck in life. 

For me, there is not one of us that do not love our babies dearly and will always be there to protect them. 

We saw a video, an after the fact action, some reacted the same, some differently, and in fact, none of us were there. Name calling of those we don't even know, not just in this thread, but in another thread to one of our dear members here, is just more than unpleasant.

And yes, the judge was very wrong, my gosh wrong, but as you said, those sins and penance, I also leave in God's hands. 

The one common denomator that each of us have, is the deep love that we have for our furbabies and all furbabies. 

Mary, you are aces :thumbsup:

This sad thread I think has truly overrun its course.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

MaryH said:


> . But I will leave penance for those sins in God's hands.


Unfortunately, the dogs do not have much comfort in this.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

3Maltmom said:


> Unfortunately, the dogs do not have much comfort in this.


 
Debbie, if we all could undo what the judge did, after seeing the video, no doubt, we all would, in a heartbeat. 

We* ALL* love and protect and adore our babies and all furbabies. No one more, no one less. No one.

Again, this thread has truly run it's course.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

allheart said:


> Debbie, if we all could undo what the judge did, after seeing the video, no doubt, we all would, in a heartbeat.
> 
> We* ALL* love and protect and adore our babies and all furbabies. No one more, no one less. No one.
> 
> Again, this thread has truly run it's course.


Oh, sweetie, I didn't say otherwise.

My comment was directed at "God's Hands". I truely believe we can make a difference here. No need to wait for God. Of course we all adore our babies. That goes without saying. We just have far too many left behind.

And yup, if I could undo the mess, within my scope, I would. I try, but it's quite the battle.

Bless the little ones ~ :wub:


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

MaryH said:


> ... the judge should be slapped, have her face knocked to the ground a few times, rot in a hole, etc. Statements like this do upset me very much. The judge was wrong in what she did, very very wrong. But I will leave penance for those sins in God's hands.





3Maltmom said:


> Unfortunately, the dogs do not have much comfort in this.





3Maltmom said:


> My comment was directed at "God's Hands". I truely believe we can make a difference here. No need to wait for God. Of course we all adore our babies. That goes without saying. We just have far too many left behind.


My dogs are no more comforted by these types of comments than I am.


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

Can you guys just please stop... this back and forth over whether some one person's sentiments are right or wrong are just creating a divide and bad feelings...  

I have sometimes said things that have come out less than gracefully and have always appreciated when the lovely SMers have let it slide, realizing that a lot of times things get lost in the written word - it can be misinterpreted, or could merely be something that is a reactionary post to a volatile topic that perhaps after things had calmed down a bit never would have happened. I'm sure in real life no one would slap someone or let them rot in a hole - I can say this based on knowing the posters from past history : they are the ones with the hearts as wide as Kansas - it's just someone(s) expressing the depth of their dismay is how I read it. None of them are bullies (and to be cyberbullies, the other party must also be on the same net space, which they are not).

I also understand the discomfort of another board poster (edelweis?) who is a personal friend of the breeder and must be aware of how the owner/handler feels...must be very uncomfortable for her to read these things since these are Real People to her and she has an understanding of how they felt about all of this in real life. 

I've appreciated the grace offered to me and I'm sure the posters on this thread would too...everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether their words come out in a manner others understand or appreciate or not. But let's kill this thread, please...video's gone, hopefully something good will come of it as it shone a spotlight on how judges should possibly being doing things better so it won't happen to another fluff in the future...

Love Light and Remember, this is the CHRISTmas season... forgiveness, hope and moving forward :heart::heart::heart: Love ALL you guys


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## heartmadeforyou (May 16, 2009)

:goodpost:


maltlovereileen said:


> Can you guys just please stop... this back and forth over whether some one person's sentiments are right or wrong are just creating a divide and bad feelings...
> 
> I have sometimes said things that have come out less than gracefully and have always appreciated when the lovely SMers have let it slide, realizing that a lot of times things get lost in the written word - it can be misinterpreted, or could merely be something that is a reactionary post to a volatile topic that perhaps after things had calmed down a bit never would have happened. I'm sure in real life no one would slap someone or let them rot in a hole - I can say this based on knowing the posters from past history : they are the ones with the hearts as wide as Kansas - it's just someone(s) expressing the depth of their dismay is how I read it. None of them are bullies (and to be cyberbullies, the other party must also be on the same net space, which they are not).
> 
> ...


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

maltlovereileen said:


> Can you guys just please stop... this back and forth over whether some one person's sentiments are right or wrong are just creating a divide and bad feelings...
> 
> I also understand the discomfort of another board poster (edelweis?) who is a personal friend of the breeder and must be aware of how the owner/handler feels...must be very uncomfortable for her to read these things since these are Real People to her and she has an understanding of how they felt about all of this in real life.
> 
> ...


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

This thread has made me think of the movie "You've Got Mail". In the movie, Meg Ryan laments to Tom Hanks (via email) that she can NEVER think of what to say when confronted by a bad situation and that even after she goes home and thinks about it, she still can't think of what she should have said. Tom Hanks tells her that he always knows exactly what to say and says it and then later feels badly that he said it.

I think we all agree that the judge was bad for handling the puppy the way she did, but how everyone else (owne/handler, observers, etc.) handled the situation differs from person to person -- not because they don't care, but because they are different.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

MaryH said:


> My dogs are no more comforted by these types of comments than I am.


Nor am I, or my dogs, with your comments, Mary.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

3Maltmom said:


> Nor am I, or my dogs, with your comments, Mary.


 
Debbie, you do such amazing things with these precious angels, you are a blessing to them, and for sure they are a blessing to you.

Not meaning to intrude or intervene, but perhaps this should now be taken privately, since it seems a very difficult and distrubing video of an actual event, is now causing disruption, and perhaps unfairly, to dear members, who truly love, adore and protect their dogs as much as you.

Trust in my words Debbie, you will find the same level of love and dedication from Mary H, as you hold within yourself.

Not to speak for Mary, because she surely can speak for herself, but she is always open to have healthy, productive, informative discussions, which always at the route, is her deep love, care, concern and extreme knowledge of this loving breed, and is always so willing to share.

I admire both of you for what you have done for these special ones and both continue to do so.


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## 08chrissy08 (Sep 19, 2008)

I really try and stay away from these topics, but I think somehow that Mary's comment was taken in a different way then it was meant. I don't believe for a second that Mary was saying that it was ok for this judge to keep this up. She never said the judge should be allowed to continue to frighten dogs in this way. She was simply saying it wasn't our place to "punch her in the face" or any other number of things. She never at any point said that the judge should be allowed to continue this sort of thing and I don't think that the Mary I have come to know through her posts, would ever support or allow the mistreatment of animals.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

08chrissy08 said:


> I really try and stay away from these topics, but I think somehow that Mary's comment was taken in a different way then it was meant. I don't believe for a second that Mary was saying that it was ok for this judge to keep this up. She never said the judge should be allowed to continue to frighten dogs in this way. She was simply saying it wasn't our place to "punch her in the face" or any other number of things. She never at any point said that the judge should be allowed to continue this sort of thing and I don't think that the Mary I have come to know through her posts, would ever support or allow the mistreatment of animals.


 
Chrissy, thank so much for saying, what I was trying so hard to say and convey. Perfect. So well said.


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

ok lets move on, we are beating this like a dead horse:beating a dead hors we must have other things more important going on in our lives. I do
I'm one of these people who want each of us to get along gosh life's way to short, I love you guys lets hug and close this thread ok


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## Administrator (Sep 22, 2009)

Your wish is my command. Merry Christmas everyone.


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