# Baby Doll Face?



## CrystalAndZoe

I have been noticing some ads that not only promote the Teacup variety but also Babydoll Faces. Is that different than the normal breed standard?


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## Cosy

I think there are two different opinions as to what is a baby doll face.

I think of it as wide set eyes with short muzzle. 

Some of the so called "teacup" breeders define it more as a little face

to fit the little body. It doesn't mean the muzzle will be shorter or eyes

wide set.


Edit: baby doll does not mean the dog is necessarily going to be tiny. It's a description of

the face.


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## my baby

Good thread, I was wondering what the difference was. Does anyone have a picture of a "normal" maltese face and a babydoll so we can see the difference??
I must try and work out how to attach pictures because the pic of Snoop with this reply is so old!!


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## HappyB

Is this what you are looking for? The adult in full coat has the face that is described in the Maltese standard. The other picture is of his son who has the shorter muzzle and wider set eyes, yet not as pominent as Brit's dogs, Mr. Wookie, or my Pocket.


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## CrystalAndZoe

> I think there are two different opinions as to what is a baby doll face.
> 
> I think of it as wide set eyes with short muzzle.
> 
> Some of the so called "teacup" breeders define it more as a little face
> 
> to fit the little body. It doesn't mean the muzzle will be shorter or eyes
> 
> wide set.
> 
> 
> Edit: baby doll does not mean the dog is necessarily going to be tiny. It's a description of
> 
> the face.[/B]


I wondered if it was the wide set eyes & short muzzle, I just saw a Malt that fit that description last night. But is that in the breed standard or preferred? Or is that the same as breeders trying to do things out of the breed standard like downsizing to teacup size? I'm not sure how to ask this with out sounding offensive so please bear with me, especially if you have either type!


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## HappyB

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=295010
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> 
> 
> I think there are two different opinions as to what is a baby doll face.
> 
> I think of it as wide set eyes with short muzzle.
> 
> Some of the so called "teacup" breeders define it more as a little face
> 
> to fit the little body. It doesn't mean the muzzle will be shorter or eyes
> 
> wide set.
> 
> 
> Edit: baby doll does not mean the dog is necessarily going to be tiny. It's a description of
> 
> the face.[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wondered if it was the wide set eyes & short muzzle, I just saw a Malt that fit that description last night. But is that in the breed standard or preferred? Or is that the same as breeders trying to do things out of the breed standard like downsizing to teacup size? I'm not sure how to ask this with out sounding offensive so please bear with me, especially if you have either type!
> 
> 
> 
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> [/B]
Click to expand...


I'll have one of each showing with two different handlers when we start back after Christmas. It will be interesting to see how the judges receive them. We are thinking the shorter nose and wider eyes will be the one that is more favored now.


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## saltymalty

Faye, correct me please if I am wrong but isn't "teacup" an offensive term among breeders? And "baby doll face" an accepted term used to describe the look? I have noticed that a lot of breeders are claiming a baby doll look these days and chalk it up to a preference among show judges. Does anyone recall a posting some time ago that identified one of Charmypoo's pups as being a perfect example of the baby doll look?


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## Cosy

Since there is no such thing as the perfect dog (except for all of ours..lol) you will see different heads in the ring. Some are narrow with close set eyes and longer muzzles. Some are more moderate with the muzzle being 1/3 the length of the head with moderately set eyes (more the standard description) and some are the wide set eyes with shorter muzzles, which no one can deny are just darling and I have to believe even breeders love. Sometimes with these shorter faces there are open fontanels. Some close and some do not. I don't believe a pretty head necessarily means a smaller size of the breed. I've had some gorgeous heads that were 5 and 6 lbs. 

Toy is more wide eyed and short muzzle but not to the extreme, where Cosy is wide eyed with a very short muzzle. Luckily, neither have open fontanels. Oddly, neither do the reverse sneezing which is so often associated with the shorter muzzled breeds.





Faye, I think you'll find those judges will differ. Some look only for movement and structure and could really care less about the pretty face, some are after coat texture, some only a cute face. Some realllllly good judges like it all and try to find the best of the lot that day. I remember one time showing the cutest little face to a judge I wasn't sure of. She said to the crowd ringside that THIS is the one she'd take home, but she put up another. Go figure..lol. You just never know.


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## HappyB

> Faye, correct me please if I am wrong but isn't "teacup" an offensive term among breeders? And "baby doll face" an accepted term used to describe the look? I have noticed that a lot of breeders are claiming a baby doll look these days and chalk it up to a preference among show judges. Does anyone recall a posting some time ago that identified one of Charmypoo's pups as being a perfect example of the baby doll look?[/B]



In my opinion, tea cup is a dirty word because it is used as a sales technique to make money. If the "baby doll face" we exploited in the same way, then it could take on the same meaning.

Personally, I love the little face. I just don't love having tiny Maltese.



> Since there is no such thing as the perfect dog (except for all of ours..lol) you will see different heads in the ring. Some are narrow with close set eyes and longer muzzles. Some are more moderate with the muzzle being 1/3 the length of the head with moderately set eyes (more the standard description) and some are the wide set eyes with shorter muzzles, which no one can deny are just darling and I have to believe even breeders love. Sometimes with these shorter faces there are open fontanels. Some close and some do not. I don't believe a pretty head necessarily means a smaller size of the breed. I've had some gorgeous heads that were 5 and 6 lbs.
> 
> Toy is more wide eyed and short muzzle but not to the extreme, where Cosy is wide eyed with a very short muzzle. Luckily, neither have open fontanels. Oddly, neither do the reverse sneezing which is so often associated with the shorter muzzled breeds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faye, I think you'll find those judges will differ. Some look only for movement and structure and could really care less about the pretty face, some are after coat texture, some only a cute face. Some realllllly good judges like it all and try to find the best of the lot that day. I remember one time showing the cutest little face to a judge I wasn't sure of. She said to the crowd ringside that THIS is the one she'd take home, but she put up another. Go figure..lol. You just never know.[/B]



And, then you have judges who only look at the person showing the dog. It was really quite funny a few weeks ago when the judge never looked at a single dog in the ring. He couldn't take his eyes off the person at the end of the lead.


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## Cosy

Personally, I love the little face. I just don't love having tiny Maltese. [/QUOTE] 





See, I think little face or babydoll face denotes tiny dog. I wish they would call it shorter muzzled or shorter face. Is Pocket (in your avatar) tiny, Faye? That's a very cute face.


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## HappyB

> Personally, I love the little face. I just don't love having tiny Maltese.






See, I think little face or babydoll face denotes tiny dog. I wish they would call it shorter muzzled or shorter face. Is Pocket (in your avatar) tiny, Faye? That's a very cute face.
[/QUOTE]


That's Andy, Pocket's sire. He is 5 1/2 pounds.


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## coco

> Since there is no such thing as the perfect dog (except for all of ours..lol) you will see different heads in the ring. Some are narrow with close set eyes and longer muzzles. Some are more moderate with the muzzle being 1/3 the length of the head with moderately set eyes (more the standard description) and some are the wide set eyes with shorter muzzles, which no one can deny are just darling and I have to believe even breeders love. Sometimes with these shorter faces there are open fontanels. Some close and some do not. I don't believe a pretty head necessarily means a smaller size of the breed. I've had some gorgeous heads that were 5 and 6 lbs.
> 
> Toy is more wide eyed and short muzzle but not to the extreme, where Cosy is wide eyed with a very short muzzle. Luckily, neither have open fontanels. Oddly, neither do the reverse sneezing which is so often associated with the shorter muzzled breeds.
> 
> Okay, since I am admittedly not up on many things Maltese, what is an open fontenal? Thanks!
> 
> This forum sure has taught me many things I would not have known.
> 
> 
> 
> Faye, I think you'll find those judges will differ. Some look only for movement and structure and could really care less about the pretty face, some are after coat texture, some only a cute face. Some realllllly good judges like it all and try to find the best of the lot that day. I remember one time showing the cutest little face to a judge I wasn't sure of. She said to the crowd ringside that THIS is the one she'd take home, but she put up another. Go figure..lol. You just never know.[/B]


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## bellaratamaltese

Oh thank goodness someone posed this same question! When I first joined and didn't have a clue, I just couldn't find an acceptable desciption of 'babydoll' although I kept seeing the reference over and over, and so had asked if Lucy had what coud be considered a babydoll face since I had no clue what one looked like! 

Now that I actually know something, I can see that she does not, LOL. But she does have a shorter muzzle, which I have found that I prefer. I do not associate babydoll with tiny, but that's just me. 

Does anyone else have to bite their tongue when somebody asks if their maltese is a 'teacup' just because it's within standard? I can't tell you how many times I've quoted the breed standard for weight and said that Lucy is just on the lower end of normal for the breed. Drives me bonkers.


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## Ladysmom

> Faye, correct me please if I am wrong but isn't "teacup" an offensive term among breeders? And "baby doll face" an accepted term used to describe the look? I have noticed that a lot of breeders are claiming a baby doll look these days and chalk it up to a preference among show judges. Does anyone recall a posting some time ago that identified one of Charmypoo's pups as being a perfect example of the baby doll look?[/B]


Yes, I remember that thread. Charmypoo's pups (from Suzy Pham/Chalet de Maltese) were identified as being perfect examples of baby doll faces.

Here the link so you can judge for yourself.

http://www.chaletdemaltese.com/


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## Tina

Baby doll faces is a "style" of the time. It's not part of the standard which states that the muzzle is medium in length and not snippy. Shorter muzzles caused some problems with teeth. Not enough room for teeth to come in. 
An open fontanel is similar to when a baby is born they have a soft spot on the top of the head. It allows the baby to pass through the birth canal easier. Sometimes in puppies it does not close properly. Then you have to be more careful that the puppy doesn't fall on its head. Most of the time the fontanel closes or is very small.
Tina


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## Deanna

I think Lucy and Caddy are a great example of the two face shapes. To me Lucy is more the "traditional" (for lack of a better word) Malt face- the longer muzzle with the closer eyes, and Caddy has more the baby doll face; shorter muzzle, wider set eyes, a more roundness overall. (Both adorable and gorgeous in their unique ways







)

I have always wondered if the baby doll face has led to greater problems with tearing. I had read that the shorter muzzled dogs have more tearing- no idea if this is true or not, opinions? My vet also mentioned that the Malts with the shorter muzzle can also have more problems with their teeth crowding, and often times need more teeth pulled than the Malts with the "tradtional" muzzle. Again I have no first hand experience with this just things I have heard. I would be interested to hear from those of you who have had both if you ever noticed a difference. 

One other question- I have noticed that several of the Malts here with the baby doll face seem to have much larger heads? Is this the case or does it just look larger because of the shape? I have often wondered if breeding for this baby doll look is leading to more C-sections among the breed? 

Good discussion, thanks!


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## Aarianne

I felt incredibly awkward telling breeders that I was looking for a short muzzle, small nose, big eyes, silky coat, short body, and small dog (4 lbs was my target). It's tough to do that and also convey that you would love the dog however it might end up looking once it matures! 

If you've seen photos of my dogs, you know that I ended up letting go of most of what I was looking for by the time I got my dogs... Tiffy's ~9 pounds and nearly dislocates my elbow whenever I pick her up or put her down.







I grew tired of searching honestly and I've always had rescues and loved them so I knew I'd end up loving whatever I got anyway.

I would love if judges and the AKC and CKC breed standards would move more towards this for appearances... I don't know too much about the drawbacks of what I've described health-wise though, besides what Brit mentioned and teeth crowding. It would be wonderful to be able to find this look without such difficulty and in Canada too (I think it's less common here), but not at the expense of the breed's health. I would have felt like I was in heaven if I could have found a little Sparkle, Cosy or Toy here. Frankly, they remind me of cute little anime pets and always put a smile on my face.









Are there anymore health problems with having a shorter muzzle in a malt than there are in say a shih tzu?

And this is maybe a weird question, but aw heck, I'm curious! Do the wide set eyes roll off to the side more or is it only me? I've seen a lot of photos of malts with wide set eyes with the inner eye white showing and wondered if it's related to the skull shape or what. (I know I posted a photo like that of Tiffy, but she doesn't do that in person that I've noticed--and it's very rarely captured in photos.) It seems like malts with more of the standard look don't have eyes that do that so much.


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## Aarianne

The babydoll face may be the latest "in" thing, but I also think there's something universally cute about it. I remember coming across this site way back when I was considering yorkies and I had to bookmark it and go back: http://www.mylittlemia.com/miasphotos.html

That dog could poop on my floor any day.


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## Ladysmom

Deanna, I have heard the same thing, that the shorter muzzled Malts have more problem with tearing. I also heard that like Pekes and Shiz Tsu's, they tend to have more breathing problems.

Don't know if it's true or not. Anyone out there know?


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## bellaratamaltese

> I think Lucy and Caddy are a great example of the two face shapes. To me Lucy is more the "traditional" (for lack of a better word) Malt face- the longer muzzle with the closer eyes, and Caddy has more the baby doll face; shorter muzzle, wider set eyes, a more roundness overall. (Both adorable and gorgeous in their unique ways
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> I have always wondered if the baby doll face has led to greater problems with tearing. I had read that the shorter muzzled dogs have more tearing- no idea if this is true or not, opinions? My vet also mentioned that the Malts with the shorter muzzle can also have more problems with their teeth crowding, and often times need more teeth pulled than the Malts with the "tradtional" muzzle. Again I have no first hand experience with this just things I have heard. I would be interested to hear from those of you who have had both if you ever noticed a difference.
> 
> One other question- I have noticed that several of the Malts here with the baby doll face seem to have much larger heads? Is this the case or does it just look larger because of the shape? I have often wondered if breeding for this baby doll look is leading to more C-sections among the breed?
> 
> Good discussion, thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/B]


OMG that is so funny! I had never even thought of Caddy as having a babydoll face. She has some darn big eyes, that's for sure. And I also hadn't thought of Lucy as being the 'traditional' look either! Her face is very square, just like her body. She's compact. Her muzzle, to me, seems short but not TOO short. Overall, she just seems proportionate. If Caddy has a babydoll face, it goes against the 'tiny' theory, since she's a very solid 5 and 1/2 lbs. 

This is a very interesting thread!



> I felt incredibly awkward telling breeders that I was looking for a short muzzle, small nose, big eyes, silky coat, short body, and small dog (4 lbs was my target). It's tough to do that and also convey that you would love the dog however it might end up looking once it matures!
> 
> If you've seen photos of my dogs, you know that I ended up letting go of most of what I was looking for by the time I got my dogs... Tiffy's ~9 pounds and nearly dislocates my elbow whenever I pick her up or put her down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grew tired of searching honestly and I've always had rescues and loved them so I knew I'd end up loving whatever I got anyway.
> 
> I would love if judges and the AKC and CKC breed standards would move more towards this for appearances... I don't know too much about the drawbacks of what I've described health-wise though, besides what Brit mentioned and teeth crowding. It would be wonderful to be able to find this look without such difficulty and in Canada too (I think it's less common here), but not at the expense of the breed's health. I would have felt like I was in heaven if I could have found a little Sparkle, Cosy or Toy here. Frankly, they remind me of cute little anime pets and always put a smile on my face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are there anymore health problems with having a shorter muzzle in a malt than there are in say a shih tzu?
> 
> And this is maybe a weird question, but aw heck, I'm curious! Do the wide set eyes roll off to the side more or is it only me? I've seen a lot of photos of malts with wide set eyes with the inner eye white showing and wondered if it's related to the skull shape or what. (I know I posted a photo like that of Tiffy, but she doesn't do that in person that I've noticed--and it's very rarely captured in photos.) It seems like malts with more of the standard look don't have eyes that do that so much.[/B]


Surely you don't mean eyeballs like this


[attachment=16674:attachment]


That's crazy Caddypants. My son just looked at her and she charged him. I love it when she does that, LOL!

But to answer your question, Caddy shows a lot more white of her eye than Lucy does, so yes, I'd have to agree with your statement based on that!

And it's very hard telling a breeder exactly what you want and like in a dog without feeling like you are insulting them and their dogs. Believe me, I resemble that remark very, very well.


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## HappyB

One other thing to consider in the head structure of pups that have this "baby doll" look is the stop. On a dog, the stop is the forehead area. One that is slanted back will take away from this look, even in a shorter nose. In evaluating a dog, you want a stop that is more "forward".


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## Cosy

> The babydoll face may be the latest "in" thing, but I also think there's something universally cute about it. I remember coming across this site way back when I was considering yorkies and I had to bookmark it and go back: http://www.mylittlemia.com/miasphotos.html
> 
> That dog could poop on my floor any day.




Mia and Emmy are adorable. I know their mommy from a yorkie site. They do have pretty little heads like we were talking about too only I think their noses are longer but then yorkie noses are longer generally than maltese I think.





> I think Lucy and Caddy are a great example of the two face shapes. To me Lucy is more the "traditional" (for lack of a better word) Malt face- the longer muzzle with the closer eyes, and Caddy has more the baby doll face; shorter muzzle, wider set eyes, a more roundness overall. (Both adorable and gorgeous in their unique ways
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> I have always wondered if the baby doll face has led to greater problems with tearing. I had read that the shorter muzzled dogs have more tearing- no idea if this is true or not, opinions? My vet also mentioned that the Malts with the shorter muzzle can also have more problems with their teeth crowding, and often times need more teeth pulled than the Malts with the "tradtional" muzzle. Again I have no first hand experience with this just things I have heard. I would be interested to hear from those of you who have had both if you ever noticed a difference.
> 
> One other question- I have noticed that several of the Malts here with the baby doll face seem to have much larger heads? Is this the case or does it just look larger because of the shape? I have often wondered if breeding for this baby doll look is leading to more C-sections among the breed?
> 
> Good discussion, thanks!




Tearing has been around forever and doesn't seem to discriminate in size or type of face for the most part.

Also, babydoll faces are not new. They've been around for many many years but seldom could be reproduced at will until the past 10 yrs or so. Marcris certainly had a big hand in creating those short faces to die for.





> Personally, I love the little face. I just don't love having tiny Maltese.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See, I think little face or babydoll face denotes tiny dog. I wish they would call it shorter muzzled or shorter face. Is Pocket (in your avatar) tiny, Faye? That's a very cute face.
Click to expand...


That's Andy, Pocket's sire. He is 5 1/2 pounds. [/QUOTE] 



So then you can have a doll face that's not tiny, just as I said. LOL

Also, sometimes in photos the whites show due to the eyes reacting to the flash. You will see that in any size head, shape, etc sometimes. As for the whites showing all the way around, that's called wall-eyed and NOT desirable. Usually the eyes get too big and bulging causing that look. You will also see them show some white at a corner if they strain to look sideways or they're freaking out lol


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## MissMelanie

*<span style="font-family:Comic">Well this all has been VERY interesting reading.

Ok my "opinions" due to Wookie being MINE. Several times in photos I do see the white of his eyes either on the outer or inner side. And when he's really excited in person, we see them sometimes, but hardly anytime lately.

For his size, he is very well proportioned. Pretty much everything about him is tiny.







Faye, Kim and I will gladly take any tinies you get.

When I picked Wookie up, I asked Bonnie about the term "baby face" and she told me, "to determine put your fingers together and hold them between the eyes, 3 fingers between eyes and then down on the muzzle that should be 2 fingers wide." Ok so Wookie is 2 1/2 to 1 1/4. Yes, he IS my baby doll. NO matter what his face is like. 

About tear staining, Sir Micro, our dog with the closer to "tradisonal" look has the most problems with staining. And we have tried everything to help him with this. Due to it being worse sometimes then other, we feel it has to be allergies. Or something the husband drags in.









enJOY!
Melanie


</span>*


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## dr.jaimie

> *<span style="font-family:Comic">Well this all has been VERY interesting reading.
> 
> Ok my "opinions" due to Wookie being MINE. Several times in photos I do see the white of his eyes either on the outer or inner side. And when he's really excited in person, we see them sometimes, but hardly anytime lately.
> 
> For his size, he is very well proportioned. Pretty much everything about him is tiny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faye, Kim and I will gladly take any tinies you get.
> 
> When I picked Wookie up, I asked Bonnie about the term "baby face" and she told me, "to determine put your fingers together and hold them between the eyes, 3 fingers between eyes and then down on the muzzle that should be 2 fingers wide." Ok so Wookie is 2 1/2 to 1 1/4. Yes, he IS my baby doll. NO matter what his face is like.
> 
> About tear staining, Sir Micro, our dog with the closer to "tradisonal" look has the most problems with staining. And we have tried everything to help him with this. Due to it being worse sometimes then other, we feel it has to be allergies. Or something the husband drags in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> enJOY!
> Melanie
> 
> 
> </span>*[/B]


i just measured pix with my fingers and her eyes are 3 fingers apart and her snout it 2 so i guess she is baby doll....her whites of her eyes dont show..parkers do sometimes..but he is my understandard malt with a 3 finger snout and a 2 finger apart eyes...haha opposite of pixel. but i love them both







i guess it also depends on how fat/small ur fingers are hehe


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## MissMelanie

> QUOTE(MissMelanie @ Nov 30 2006, 08:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=295302


<div class='quotemain'> *<span style="color:#33ccff">Dear Jaimie,








EXACTLY! And I asked Bonnie about that, coz I know my fingers are not the same size as my huband's. She really didn't have an answer for that question. hehehehe

We all love both Parker and Pixel so they are perfectly matched.

enJOY!
Melanie
</span>*


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## k/c mom

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=295302
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *<span style="font-family:Comic">Well this all has been VERY interesting reading.
> 
> Ok my "opinions" due to Wookie being MINE. Several times in photos I do see the white of his eyes either on the outer or inner side. And when he's really excited in person, we see them sometimes, but hardly anytime lately.
> 
> For his size, he is very well proportioned. Pretty much everything about him is tiny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faye, Kim and I will gladly take any tinies you get.
> 
> When I picked Wookie up, I asked Bonnie about the term "baby face" and she told me, "to determine put your fingers together and hold them between the eyes, 3 fingers between eyes and then down on the muzzle that should be 2 fingers wide." Ok so Wookie is 2 1/2 to 1 1/4. Yes, he IS my baby doll. NO matter what his face is like.
> 
> About tear staining, Sir Micro, our dog with the closer to "tradisonal" look has the most problems with staining. And we have tried everything to help him with this. Due to it being worse sometimes then other, we feel it has to be allergies. Or something the husband drags in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> enJOY!
> Melanie
> 
> 
> </span>*[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i just measured pix with my fingers and her eyes are 3 fingers apart and her snout it 2 so i guess she is baby doll....her whites of her eyes dont show..parkers do sometimes..but he is my understandard malt with a 3 finger snout and a 2 finger apart eyes...haha opposite of pixel. but i love them both
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i guess it also depends on how fat/small ur fingers are hehe
> [/B]
Click to expand...

Are you saying to measure between the eyes with three fingers and then the length of the snout with two fingers? That's what Catcher's measurements are. Kallie's, like Parker's, are just exactly the opposite... two fingers between the eyes and snout 3 fingers long.


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## Ladysmom

My "understandard" Lady is two fingers between the eyes and two fingers down the snout. 

Fun test!


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## Deanna

Oh Yes, Jaimie's two and K/C's Mom two are also perfect examples of each! I think both "types" have their place in the Malt world, and might just be a personal preference. I think all the baby doll faces here are very pretty, but I have seen some baby dolls that just don't look proportionate. Something is just "off", ya know? Like their forehead is so huge, muzzle so short, eyes SO far apart- it just looks weird. Too extreme, if this makes sense.


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## HappyB

> Oh Yes, Jaimie's two and K/C's Mom two are also perfect examples of each! I think both "types" have their place in the Malt world, and might just be a personal preference. I think all the baby doll faces here are very pretty, but I have seen some baby dolls that just don't look proportionate. Something is just "off", ya know? Like their forehead is so huge, muzzle so short, eyes SO far apart- it just looks weird. Too extreme, if this makes sense.[/B]



I know exactly what you mean. There are a couple being shown now that look like they have some Peke in them, as the nose is so short and the eyes sort of bugged. One poor woman has been dragging her dog around for months, trying to get points.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom

Brink is 2/2
Neyland is 2/2

I only measured the bridge, not across the black nose part...right?


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## dr.jaimie

> Brink is 2/2
> Neyland is 2/2
> 
> I only measured the bridge, not across the black nose part...right?[/B]


i measured all the way to the tip of the nose


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## Cosy

LOL well I'm not sure this measurement idea is accurate since we all have different size fingers but when I did Cosy's she is 3 fingers across (between) the eyes, and barely over one on the nose.


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## bellaratamaltese

Ok just did the finger measure thing and both Lucy and Caddy measured at two fingers between the eyes and two fingers for the snout. Not too long, not too short, but then I already knew that, LOL! I love both of their faces.


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## HappyB

> LOL well I'm not sure this measurement idea is accurate since we all have different size fingers but when I did Cosy's she is 3 fingers across (between) the eyes, and barely over one on the nose.[/B]



That makes me feel better about Pocket. He is one across the nose and a little over two between the eyes.


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## Kisses-4-Princess

cute thread.. I won't even measure Princess. My fingers are tiny so it won't be accurate ... but I'm guessing she's a babydoll, snort nose and wide eyes?... at least shes a babydoll to me =).


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## felicity

mishkin has a very unique look, sad eye's, button nose, cute mouth.....i think the technical term for it is cute









i lover all maltese faces but i do prefer the traditional look with the longer nose, i love how mishkin's mum elfin dream looked so i knew i would love how mishkin turned out and he is looking more and more like her every day









am going to take him to see her again soon, i wonder what the reunion will be like lol


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## gibbert

> The babydoll face may be the latest "in" thing, but I also think there's something universally cute about it. I remember coming across this site way back when I was considering yorkies and I had to bookmark it and go back: http://www.mylittlemia.com/miasphotos.html
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> That dog could poop on my floor any day.
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i know little Mia; she lives here in atlanta. i agree...that is one ADORABLE dog!!


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## Harley & Dakotas Mum

great thread!

I just checked (& the sleeping beauty was less than impressed!) 

Dakota - 2 between the eyes, 2.5 bridge to tip of nose.

Harley - 2 & a tiny bit between the eyes, 3 bridge to tip of nose.

Just to throw something else in there because there was mention of tear stains - is it something that breeding can eliminate, or is it much more individual than that - I mean each little one may develop allergies etc & contribute to the staining, or can it be genetic?

I only ask because Harley STILL stains at 2 1 /2, yet Dakota at 5 months still tears, but much less staining. Apart from the kibble, they both have the same diet - that's to say, they both have the same brand kibble, only Dakota is on puppy, Harley is on adult.


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## my baby

> Is this what you are looking for? The adult in full coat has the face that is described in the Maltese standard. The other picture is of his son who has the shorter muzzle and wider set eyes, yet not as pominent as Brit's dogs, Mr. Wookie, or my Pocket.[/B]










Perfect ! Thanks for posting that its a perfect example. I think my snoop is definitly more the traditional look!
They are both so cute though


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom

> cute thread.. I won't even measure Princess. My fingers are tiny so it won't be accurate ... but I'm guessing she's a babydoll, snort nose and wide eyes?... at least shes a babydoll to me =).[/B]



Definitely a baby-doll, no matter how she measures!!!!


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## Cosy

> great thread!
> 
> I just checked (& the sleeping beauty was less than impressed!)
> 
> Dakota - 2 between the eyes, 2.5 bridge to tip of nose.
> 
> Harley - 2 & a tiny bit between the eyes, 3 bridge to tip of nose.
> 
> Just to throw something else in there because there was mention of tear stains - is it something that breeding can eliminate, or is it much more individual than that - I mean each little one may develop allergies etc & contribute to the staining, or can it be genetic?
> 
> .[/B]


 

Good breeding certainly can't hurt, but more importantly is keeping the eye area free of debris and getting to the source of irritation. Allergies can be passed down so inquiring about that might help, however, some dogs acquire allergies from their environment (indoor or outdoor) or food allergies. They may also develop an allergy over time. So I guess this didn't help you.


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## Deanna

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> Oh Yes, Jaimie's two and K/C's Mom two are also perfect examples of each! I think both "types" have their place in the Malt world, and might just be a personal preference. I think all the baby doll faces here are very pretty, but I have seen some baby dolls that just don't look proportionate. Something is just "off", ya know? Like their forehead is so huge, muzzle so short, eyes SO far apart- it just looks weird. Too extreme, if this makes sense.[/B]
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> I know exactly what you mean. There are a couple being shown now that look like they have some Peke in them, as the nose is so short and the eyes sort of bugged. One poor woman has been dragging her dog around for months, trying to get points.
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I am glad to hear you say that- I was beginning to think it was just me! I thought in the Malt standard it clearly states that the eyes shouldn't be bulging. 

P.S. Princess is totally a baby doll!


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## felicity

> Ok just did the finger measure thing and both Lucy and Caddy measured at two fingers between the eyes and two fingers for the snout. Not too long, not too short, but then I already knew that, LOL! I love both of their faces.
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That's exactly the same as Mishkin's measurements, two between the eye's and two for the snout, just perfect


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## HollyHobbie

I would say I had normal sized fingers. 

I measured Noel and she has a tiny face. Between the eyes was like 1 1/2 and her nose was about the same. I might be doing something wrong LOL or maybe I have man hands and just don't know it. HEHE


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## charmypoo

Larry Stanberry (Divine Maltese) once explained baby doll heads using my kids as an example. Nibbler was the perfect example of a baby doll head. He passed away recently but his photo is in my signature with the wings. My girls from Susie (Sparkle, Cupcake and Jellybean) have close to baby doll heads but not as extreme. I find they all have beautiful heads.

Past thread on this topic with the explanation from Larry - http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...amp;#entry63887


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## Ladysmom

What a wonderful explanation from Larry. I wish he still posted here.


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## Lacie's Mom

As a long time Lhasa breeder and having had the #1 Lhasa twice, I could easily explain the various differences in the Lhasa breed standard. Yes - a lot is the "fad" of the moment.

When I bought my first Maltese (Lacie) almost 2 years ago, she was described as having a "baby doll face". I thought she was adorable, but really couldn't see a comparison of a baby doll face vs. a non- baby doll face.

Now that I have Tilly (who doesn't have a "baby doll face"), I can really see the difference in the heads. I prefer the "baby doll face" but love Tilly just the same. It doesn't have to do with size (everyone has already said that), but the difference in the length of the nose, the size and set of the eyes, etc.

This is a good discussion.


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## Furbaby's Mommie

Having an old senior Malt makes a difference. When Frosty was born almost 15 yr.s ago, there were no "babydoll" faces. So to me, especially the extreme ones, don't look very Maltese. They are darling, but some I've seen recently border on looking like they are mixed with a Shih Tzu, like someone else said. I don't like the look of what I call a smush face dog. I like a nice muzzle on a dog. I love what Larry S. said about over all balance.



The Mr. Wookies (who may or not have a "babydoll face") of this world are so darling, but not what I want in a dog. Real tiny scares me. They are so easy to injure, and if they get a health problem it gets critical so easily. I still want the perfect Malt who is not perfect "standard" because he is 7 lbs. or more. Just me!


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## Cosy

> cute thread.. I won't even measure Princess. My fingers are tiny so it won't be accurate ... but I'm guessing she's a babydoll, snort nose and wide eyes?... at least shes a babydoll to me =).[/B]


 

LOL at SNORT nose. I'd say she is most definitely baby face. 





> Having an old senior Malt makes a difference. When Frosty was born almost 15 yr.s ago, there were no "babydoll" faces. So to me, especially the extreme ones, don't look very Maltese. They are darling, but some I've seen recently border on looking like they are mixed with a Shih Tzu, like someone else said. I don't like the look of what I call a smush face dog. I like a nice muzzle on a dog. I love what Larry S. said about over all balance.
> 
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> The Mr. Wookies (who may or not have a "babydoll face") of this world are so darling, but not what I want in a dog. Real tiny scares me. They are so easy to injure, and if they get a health problem it gets critical so easily. I still want the perfect Malt who is not perfect "standard" because he is 7 lbs. or more. Just me!
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I've had babydoll faces for over 25 yrs so maybe you just didn't see them 15 yrs ago. Cosy has the extreme face but is hardly fragile. She has lots of bone, muscle and good movement. She's a solid dog, just on the small size. Not all of those faces are predisposed to those types of worries. I've seen very tiny maltese that didn't have the "babydoll" heads who were very frail.


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## HappyB

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> cute thread.. I won't even measure Princess. My fingers are tiny so it won't be accurate ... but I'm guessing she's a babydoll, snort nose and wide eyes?... at least shes a babydoll to me =).[/B]
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> Having an old senior Malt makes a difference. When Frosty was born almost 15 yr.s ago, there were no "babydoll" faces. So to me, especially the extreme ones, don't look very Maltese. They are darling, but some I've seen recently border on looking like they are mixed with a Shih Tzu, like someone else said. I don't like the look of what I call a smush face dog. I like a nice muzzle on a dog. I love what Larry S. said about over all balance.
> 
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> The Mr. Wookies (who may or not have a "babydoll face") of this world are so darling, but not what I want in a dog. Real tiny scares me. They are so easy to injure, and if they get a health problem it gets critical so easily. I still want the perfect Malt who is not perfect "standard" because he is 7 lbs. or more. Just me!
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> I've had babydoll faces for over 25 yrs so maybe you just didn't see them 15 yrs ago. Cosy has the extreme face but is hardly fragile. She has lots of bone, muscle and good movement. She's a solid dog, just on the small size. Not all of those faces are predisposed to those types of worries. I've seen very tiny maltese that didn't have the "babydoll" heads who were very frail.
> [/B]
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I've got some nice, sturdy five pounders here with the "baby doll" face.


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## bellaratamaltese

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> cute thread.. I won't even measure Princess. My fingers are tiny so it won't be accurate ... but I'm guessing she's a babydoll, snort nose and wide eyes?... at least shes a babydoll to me =).[/B]
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> Having an old senior Malt makes a difference. When Frosty was born almost 15 yr.s ago, there were no "babydoll" faces. So to me, especially the extreme ones, don't look very Maltese. They are darling, but some I've seen recently border on looking like they are mixed with a Shih Tzu, like someone else said. I don't like the look of what I call a smush face dog. I like a nice muzzle on a dog. I love what Larry S. said about over all balance.
> 
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> The Mr. Wookies (who may or not have a "babydoll face") of this world are so darling, but not what I want in a dog. Real tiny scares me. They are so easy to injure, and if they get a health problem it gets critical so easily. I still want the perfect Malt who is not perfect "standard" because he is 7 lbs. or more. Just me!
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> I've had babydoll faces for over 25 yrs so maybe you just didn't see them 15 yrs ago. Cosy has the extreme face but is hardly fragile. She has lots of bone, muscle and good movement. She's a solid dog, just on the small size. Not all of those faces are predisposed to those types of worries. I've seen very tiny maltese that didn't have the "babydoll" heads who were very frail.
> [/B]
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> I've got some nice, sturdy five pounders here with the "baby doll" face.
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Do you think Caddy's face is babydoll? It hadn't really occured to me, I have to admit, when someone had mentioned it.


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## The A Team

Here the link so you can judge for yourself.

http://www.chaletdemaltese.com/
[/QUOTE]


That is one CUTE puppy!!!

I get asked by a lot of people if my dogs are the new "tea cup" maltese. Good grief - they are 5 and 7 lbs!


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