# How big should the crate be?



## Menachem (Apr 1, 2005)

So my little guy needs an upgrade.







He is growing everyday and is now just a little over 6 pounds! His current crate (aka house) is tiny. It's your typical plastic pet taxi - probably for a cat. I want to get him something where is a little more comfortable and not strectchng the second he gets out of the crate.

So the question is...how big?
Some people talk about having their wee-pad in the crates. Is that ok? I want him to be happy and content when we are not there - and safe too! I also heard too much space will freak them out.

Any ideas?

Thanks so much!!


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## JCButterfly (Mar 15, 2005)

I've never heard that too much space will freak them out and I tend to be a believer in as big as you can afford/accomodate. I think that more space and safe chews keep Tristan happier when he *HAS* to be in his crate but that's just my experience.


How is the potty training going?

If you want Menachem to relieve himself outside, you'll be kicking yourself for putting a pee pad in his crate because you're going against what you are trying to teach him. Animals generally do not want to relieve themselves where the eat and sleep so unless the crate is REALLY big, this probably isn't the best idea because you'll force him to lay near where he relieves himself, if he gets too used to it, he may just decide it doesn't matter where he relieves himself.

If you are trying to potty train him to use wee pads, then perhaps there is an area of your house you can puppy proof ( a small bathroom, laundry area, etc) and have him confined to that small space with a wee pad-- if you want him to have the ability to go while you are away.

Otherwise, it's probably better to just come home during the day or find a reliable someone who will and let him out to relieve himself.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

Lexi has a 24 L x 18 W x 21 H size crate. It is plenty big enough. I think you could get by with the 22 L x 13W x 16 H".


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## Jack (Feb 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Apr 12 2005, 01:59 PM
> *Lexi has a 24 L x 18 W x 21 H size crate.  It is plenty big enough.  I think you could get by with the 22 L x 13W x 16 H".
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51908*


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So there is plenty of room in the 22 x13 x16 crate? The only reason I am considering the size you have for Lexi is because it seems it is easier to buy the crate accessories in that size. Like those crate bumper and cover sets. Do you cover Lexi's crate or is that just bunk that dogs like their space to be covered, more den-like? Jack has been in his small travel crate since we got him 10 months ago. He still fits, but stretches the second he comes out, which makes me feel it is too small. He doesn't have anyt potty accidents in his small crate and I am afraid they will start if I go with the larger one. Afterall, he will pee on his round pet bed but not in his crate. What do you think? Thanks


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

The size I use is: 30" front to back; 21" wide and 23" tall. I can't imagine it any smaller. Catcher is 7 pounds and Kallie is 9. I got the "bumper" pad for each. They have plenty of room to stand, turn around and even play a little bit. I also have a huge playpen that I built from closet shelving. Let me know if you want more info on that. Here are K & C in their crates:


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## Jack (Feb 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom_@Apr 14 2005, 08:12 PM
> *The size I use is:  30" front to back; 21" wide and 23" tall. I can't imagine it any smaller. Catcher is 7 pounds and Kallie is 9. I got the "bumper" pad for each. They have plenty of room to stand, turn around and even play a little bit. I also have a huge playpen that I built from closet shelving. Let me know if you want more info on that. Here are K & C in their crates:
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Hmmmmm. Kallie and Catcher don't look as "lost" as I thought they would in there. They are adorable. Beautiful hardwood floors by the way!!!!!! Did you ever have a problem with them peeing on and ruining your floors? I have hardwood where the edges are beveled. Unfortunately, Jack had a few accidents that were cleaned up a little too late before it settled down into the bevels. It ruined the finish in the bevels and no smells.


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## Jack (Feb 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Jack+Apr 14 2005, 09:08 PM-->
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Hmmmmm. Kallie and Catcher don't look as "lost" as I thought they would in there. They are adorable. Beautiful hardwood floors by the way!!!!!! Did you ever have a problem with them peeing on and ruining your floors? I have hardwood where the edges are beveled. Unfortunately, Jack had a few accidents that were cleaned up a little too late before it settled down into the bevels. It ruined the finish in the bevels and no smells.
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I meant NOW the wood smells!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Jack+Apr 14 2005, 10:11 PM-->
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I meant NOW the wood smells!
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Catcher got in the habit of peeing on my kitchen floor, which is hardwood. Luckily I have always caught it in time and immediately sprayed a product called Petzyme on it. They have not peed in the bedroom, thank goodness. I got the hardwood because my first Maltese, Rosebud, peed all over the bedroom carpet when she was not feeling well, toward the end, and after she was gone I had it ripped out and was not going to put wall to wall in again, even though I actually prefer it in a bedroom. I have a huge Oriental rug in there and figure it'll be easier to clean if they ever do pee on it since I can get to the back of it, etc. 

BTW, did you use an ezyme spray on your hardwoods?


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Jack+Apr 14 2005, 08:02 PM-->
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So there is plenty of room in the 22 x13 x16 crate? The only reason I am considering the size you have for Lexi is because it seems it is easier to buy the crate accessories in that size. Like those crate bumper and cover sets. Do you cover Lexi's crate or is that just bunk that dogs like their space to be covered, more den-like? Jack has been in his small travel crate since we got him 10 months ago. He still fits, but stretches the second he comes out, which makes me feel it is too small. He doesn't have anyt potty accidents in his small crate and I am afraid they will start if I go with the larger one. Afterall, he will pee on his round pet bed but not in his crate. What do you think? Thanks
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I cover Lexi's crate with a sheet during the summer and a beach towel during the winter. I have a standard size pillow in the crate. The reason I'm thinking of getting the smaller crate for my next puppy is that when I travel I put Lexi's crate up in my back seat and I don't think there is room for 2 of those size crates. If I did get another one that is Lexi's size I wouldn't get the puppy size one (has the 2nd door on the top). I would get the Midwest 1624DD one:


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## Jack (Feb 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Apr 14 2005, 09:42 PM-->
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Catcher got in the habit of peeing on my kitchen floor, which is hardwood. Luckily I have always caught it in time and immediately sprayed a product called Petzyme on it. They have not peed in the bedroom, thank goodness. I got the hardwood because my first Maltese, Rosebud, peed all over the bedroom carpet when she was not feeling well, toward the end, and after she was gone I had it ripped out and was not going to put wall to wall in again, even though I actually prefer it in a bedroom. I have a huge Oriental rug in there and figure it'll be easier to clean if they ever do pee on it since I can get to the back of it, etc. 

BTW, did you use an ezyme spray on your hardwoods?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52826
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Yes, I have used an enzyme spray and it has helped the spots that I can actually find. However, I believe the urine has settled down into the cracks and has gotten underneath. I am just praying that it hasn't rotted the wood from underneath. The floors are only a few years old. 

As far as the crate sizing, I am really nervous to even consider buying anything larger than the 24" x 18" size. Jack has been close to impossible to potty train. In fact, he will pull his crate pad out of his crate, drag it across the floor and then pee on it. He will think nothing of peeing on his nice expensive round Orvis bed as well (which we have taken away). So, I am afraid if I go larger, than he will think nothing of peeing in his crate. What do you think? Any ideas why he would pee on his bedding? Thanks


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## Jack (Feb 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Apr 14 2005, 09:42 PM-->
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Catcher got in the habit of peeing on my kitchen floor, which is hardwood. Luckily I have always caught it in time and immediately sprayed a product called Petzyme on it. They have not peed in the bedroom, thank goodness. I got the hardwood because my first Maltese, Rosebud, peed all over the bedroom carpet when she was not feeling well, toward the end, and after she was gone I had it ripped out and was not going to put wall to wall in again, even though I actually prefer it in a bedroom. I have a huge Oriental rug in there and figure it'll be easier to clean if they ever do pee on it since I can get to the back of it, etc. 

BTW, did you use an ezyme spray on your hardwoods?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52826
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Yes I have used an enzyme spray and it has helped with the spots I can find. However, there are places where the urine has gone between the cracks and those cannot be helped because I don't know exactly where they are. 

As far as the crate size. I could never even consider going any larger than 24 x 18. Jack has been close to impossible to train and will still drag the pad out of his existing crate and pee on it. He also doesn't think twice about urinating on his round Orvis bed either. I don't understand this? Anyway, I am afraid if the crate is too large he will think nothing of urinating inside of it, at which point I will completely tear my hair out. Right now, his crate is the only place he will not go. I would really love to buy even the smaller size which is 22 x 13. The length would be fine however the width is the same as what he has now. Any more ideas? Should I just leave well enough alone and keep him in what we already have?


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

Brinkley has the huge...42 long x 31 high crate.







We call it his apartment.







It is big enough for a small bed, a small basket of toys, and a small litterbox with 1/2 wee pad in it...and still has a small amount of floor space left.







He VERY rarely has to stay in it...only at times when we have company and he won't settle down-or the bug man or plumber or somebody has to come in. It is probably too big, but works for our purposes. It fits in the corner of our kitchen and we now use the top as a catch all.







The kids' school paper baskets are up there, the dog food, bottled water, and extra wee pads. It has made a nice extra "cabinet" top. :lol: I got it for a GREAT price on ebay. It was almost 1/2 of what the pet stores etc. sold them for.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Jack_@Apr 16 2005, 08:02 PM
> *What do you think?  Any ideas why he would pee on his bedding?  Thanks
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=53355*


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You may have said already but how old is he and is he neutered?


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## Jack (Feb 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Apr 16 2005, 08:11 PM-->
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You may have said already but how old is he and is he neutered?
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Hi again. Jack is 10 months old and yes he is neutered. He was neutered on his 6 month birthday BEFORE he showed any kind of marking behaviour. Wouldn' t you know that 2 days after the surgery I saw him hike his leg so high to mark my curtains, he darn near fell over!!!!! I called the vet and he said he might have just been being spiteful! The behavior has continued. Sometimes worse than others, however, I haven't been able to untie my curtains. I also had to remove all of my through rugs in my kitchen where he is confined. When he manages to escape the kiddie gates, he will run into the nearest room to mark!!! I can never have a jacket or anything hanging on the back of a chair because he willl hike that leg up and NEVER miss!!!! We just purchased a new trestle-type kitchen table and chairs which we just realized he has been marking all week long!!! Apparantly, he has been walking along the trestle and peeing along it!! My husband has just about had it! I don't know what else to do~ Thanks for the help.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Jack+Apr 16 2005, 09:48 PM-->
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Hi again. Jack is 10 months old and yes he is neutered. He was neutered on his 6 month birthday BEFORE he showed any kind of marking behaviour. Wouldn' t you know that 2 days after the surgery I saw him hike his leg so high to mark my curtains, he darn near fell over!!!!! I called the vet and he said he might have just been being spiteful! The behavior has continued. Sometimes worse than others, however, I haven't been able to untie my curtains. I also had to remove all of my through rugs in my kitchen where he is confined. When he manages to escape the kiddie gates, he will run into the nearest room to mark!!! I can never have a jacket or anything hanging on the back of a chair because he willl hike that leg up and NEVER miss!!!! We just purchased a new trestle-type kitchen table and chairs which we just realized he has been marking all week long!!! Apparantly, he has been walking along the trestle and peeing along it!! My husband has just about had it! I don't know what else to do~ Thanks for the help.
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Oh gosh.... bless your heart!! Have you tried belly bands? People on here have highly recommended them for situations like yours. Go to the store on the Northcentral Maltese web site to learn more about them:

Northcentral Maltese Rescue "Malt Shop" Belly Bands

Here are some quotes and link to some SM threads about marking and some advice by JMM.... maybe it'll help.... 

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...1743&hl=marking

FROM JMM: "Leg lifting is both behavioral and instinctual. Marking will get started as a doggy way or declaring territory (both males and females do it, but intact males with those hormones are the worst), often after another dog has marked a spot. Having said that, a dog that is not permitted to do so will not. It is a housebreaking issue when they mark in the house. I know of plenty of breeders with stud dogs who do not mark in the house ever. I've had plenty of intact males in the house including a Maltese. I never let them start the behavior so we had no problems. If you aren't actively house training your dogs and you have 15, of course they'll urinate all over the place. It is a dog thing, not a toy breed thing. I think most large breed people simply don't tolerate it."

FROM JMM: "He is not housetrained. You need to treat him like a puppy who does not know where to go. If he goes once he comes back in, you need to bring him back in, crate him for 15 minutes, and take him back out. Honestly, I find litter or paper training to take longer and be more difficult than training them to go outdoors."


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

House train him! The kitchen is too much freedom. Every error he has marking is because he is not being supervised closely enough. Crate (and no bedding or a rubber mat on the bottom is fine if he's doing to pee on the bedding) him or leash him to you at all times. Take him out and praise and give him a treat for going in the appropriate spot. You will need to very dilligently treat him like he has no idea about housetraining for a couple of months. Breaking the habit with marking is the biggest hurdle. 

He may always need to be crated when you leave the house, but with hard work, he can be able to roam around the house when you are home.


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## Jack (Feb 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Apr 16 2005, 09:07 PM-->
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Oh gosh.... bless your heart!! Have you tried belly bands? People on here have highly recommended them for situations like yours. Go to the store on the Northcentral Maltese web site to learn more about them:

Northcentral Maltese Rescue "Malt Shop" Belly Bands

Here are some quotes and link to some SM threads about marking and some advice by JMM.... maybe it'll help.... 

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...1743&hl=marking

FROM JMM: "Leg lifting is both behavioral and instinctual. Marking will get started as a doggy way or declaring territory (both males and females do it, but intact males with those hormones are the worst), often after another dog has marked a spot. Having said that, a dog that is not permitted to do so will not. It is a housebreaking issue when they mark in the house. I know of plenty of breeders with stud dogs who do not mark in the house ever. I've had plenty of intact males in the house including a Maltese. I never let them start the behavior so we had no problems. If you aren't actively house training your dogs and you have 15, of course they'll urinate all over the place. It is a dog thing, not a toy breed thing. I think most large breed people simply don't tolerate it."

FROM JMM: "He is not housetrained. You need to treat him like a puppy who does not know where to go. If he goes once he comes back in, you need to bring him back in, crate him for 15 minutes, and take him back out. Honestly, I find litter or paper training to take longer and be more difficult than training them to go outdoors."
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=53378
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Thanks for the advice!! It looks like I am going to have to be a little more strict with Jack. He is crated at all times when we are gone, but I do let him out into the kitchen behind gates when I am home even if I am not watching. I guess that is a big mistake!!!


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## Jack (Feb 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Apr 16 2005, 09:15 PM
> *House train him! The kitchen is too much freedom. Every error he has marking is because he is not being supervised closely enough. Crate (and no bedding or a rubber mat on the bottom is fine if he's doing to pee on the bedding) him or leash him to you at all times. Take him out and praise and give him a treat for going in the appropriate spot. You will need to very dilligently treat him like he has no idea about housetraining for a couple of months. Breaking the habit with marking is the biggest hurdle.
> 
> He may always need to be crated when you leave the house, but with hard work, he can be able to roam around the house when you are home.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=53382*


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Thanks for the reply. Yes, I believe Jack will always be one who will need constant supervision and crating. I guess it is time to get tough with him!!! I will give it my best shot!! Thanks again.


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## stini (Feb 26, 2005)

I have a question: Is it a good idea to pee pad AND housetrain them?

When you're home, you can take him outside to go. 

Or 

If you're gone/he has to go in the middle of the night, he can get up and relieve himself on the pad?

Would they get confused?


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by stini_@Apr 19 2005, 07:55 PM
> *I have a question: Is it a good idea to pee pad AND housetrain them?
> 
> When you're home, you can take him outside to go.
> ...


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I do it that way exactly.... I have pads in the house, which they use when they need to go. Catcher is crated at night but Kallie can go to the pad anytime, and she does. Also, it's great having the pads in the hous on extra hot, extra cold, rainy or snowy days.... but now that the weather is nice I take them to my patio area where I have grass and mulch during lunch time and evening and they "go" there. 

I love it this way!


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

I have been planning to train Peanut to go outside and also use the pads. I live in MA, and after this last winter we had there is no way I would have been walking Peanut out in a blizzard. But now I think I will wait till TicTac has had all of his shots before I start so I can try to get both of them doing it at once


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

I've heard it is easier to train them to use the pads and then after they have that done work on training outside. Supposedly it is harder to train them to first go outside and then try to train them to use the pads. 

_Does this post make any sense?_


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

Yep it does make sense and I would agree. I am having a hard time getting Tunder to use the pads in the house. He only goes outside right now. So far nothing has convinced him it is ok to potty in the house.


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## Menachem (Apr 1, 2005)

I think I have the best of both worlds. Menachem goes only on the pad in the apartment and goes outside when we go to the park. It took him a while to go outside but once he was around other dogs outside, he got the hint!!


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## tfb (Jun 13, 2006)

> The size I use is: 30" front to back; 21" wide and 23" tall. I can't imagine it any smaller. Catcher is 7 pounds and Kallie is 9. I got the "bumper" pad for each. They have plenty of room to stand, turn around and even play a little bit. I also have a huge playpen that I built from closet shelving. Let me know if you want more info on that. Here are K & C in their crates:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you consider one crate for both of them? We will have two new puppies joining us in about 3 weeks and wanted to keep them together. They are brother and sister. They are currently kept together in a baby play pen at the breeder. 

Is it better to give them their own crate?

Thank you.

Keith


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