# Some Breeders Are Just Not Gracious



## marisag (Jan 18, 2010)

Hi everyone. This is my first time on as a poster, though I have read many of your posts for awhile trying to learn about the Maltese breed. You guys have been insightful and wonderful. I have recently had a terrible experience that I want to talk about and I hope that you will not bash me because some of my comments may be upsetting. 

I finally decided to take the plunge and purchase a Maltese puppy. I am recovering from surgery and was recently given clearance by my doctors to buy the puppy I’ve been aching for. I knew that I couldn’t return to work until at least April, and I figured that I would choose a puppy that would be ready to come with me in March so I would have a month to get the puppy and I used to a new routine. I decided on a puppy from a breeder who has always gotten great reviews on your site, Josymir Maltese. I picked her based on your glowing comments and indeed she is everything that those of you who have purchased from her have said, courteous, professional and pleasant. I was so pleased with my choice and that this timing would be perfect. At my last checkup my doctor, finally happy with the progress of an incision that would not close, told me I could return to work earlier than planned, on March 1. Sometimes the best laid plans go asunder. While I was thrilled to finally be able to go back to work, the Josymir puppy wouldn’t be available until much later in March. After being out for almost 6 months, my return to the company I work for will require some catch-up time. It would have been difficult to have a little puppy come home 3 weeks after I returned to work.

I have waited years for a new puppy. My two year old standard poodle died several years ago after we opened a new bag of Royal Canin dog food and he ate one meal of that tainted Chinese food. My family was devastated, and, for us it took that long to recover from the horror of his death. I didn’t want to wait any longer and postpone my purchase. I still had over a month at home to work with a puppy if I could obtain and older one. I called Josy. She was great. Although she didn’t have any older puppies available, she told me to go ahead and see if I might find one from another breeder. There was nothing but support from her. In my book, that’s class. I never did make a definite decision at that point to wait or not to wait for the Josymir puppy. I just wanted to explore my options. 

I called a bunch of other well known breeders that I thought might have litters on the ground and explained my situation. Some had puppies available, some 
said they would check and see if there might be a puppy I could purchase. During the course of my conversations with a few of them, little comments about Josy’s dogs began to surface. All of the comments were remarkably similar, comments about the overall lack of beauty and refinement of the Josymir puppies seemed to be their main point. I found it really odd that these breeders would be so outspoken in criticizing another breeder. I felt like they were trying scare me away from buying a puppy from Josy. Those that had no puppies, referred me to breeder friends who repeated the litany against the prettiness of the Josymir dogs. It became obvious by the very similarity of their comments that they had all been speaking to each other. Some of the breeders I spoke to even mentioned they were good friends with the breeders who had referred me. It was disagreeable. One breeder actually took it upon themselves to chastise me about my choice of breeder as if I were a recalcitrant child. 

I personally don’t agree with the negative comments about the overall look of Josy’s line and I feel that every breeder has their own vision of what a pretty Maltese should look like. Obviously others agree, evidenced by the fact that she has produced champion show dogs. Many of the breeders I spoke to admitted that no matter how good their own lines are, sometimes a puppy that is less than beautiful comes out of great breeding. No breeder is immune from an occasional less than perfect dog which is why they hold dogs back for awhile to see how they develop. I felt that these attacks on Josy were unprofessional at best. If these breeders wanted to sell me a puppy they should have discussed the merits of their own dogs and not spoken poorly about someone elses.

At this point I had heard enough. I called Josy to discuss these conversations with her and after we spoke at that point in time decided to go forward and wait for the Josy puppy. In my eyes, he was beautiful, and honestly, I didn’t want to deal with some of the others whom I felt were unkind. I emailed one with my decision to stick with my original plan. The others I called by phone. I didn’t even get a chance to tell them what I had decided to do. No sooner did they hear my voice, breeders who had offered me puppies suddenly changed their minds. One after another breeders from this group let me know that a puppy from their litters would be unavailable. Puppies were already sold, or now being kept for show, or prices that were once negotiable had gone back to a price I couldn’t touch. I heard that one breeder let others know that they had decided to blackball me from obtaining a puppy. Why? Because I had chosen to deal with a breeder or a look they may not have cared for? I don’t know what , or who created this situation or why these breeders are so negative. I don’t even know Josy personally. I can only go by each of their actions. In every case Josy was calm, polite, and never said a negative word about another breeder or their dogs, even while her own were being criticized. I call that gracious behavior. The kind of whisper down the alley that occurred with me can’t be a good thing for buyers or sellers in general. Buying a puppy should be a considered and joyful purchase, not what I’ve experienced. This has been just awful. I’ve really had to step back from the situation so that I can calm down. My hopes are that like childbirth, once you actually hold your baby in your arms you have a tendency to forget the pain it took to get them here.

Thanks for listening.


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## pinkpixie1588 (Oct 12, 2009)

Wow...it sounds like you've been through quite an ordeal. I'm glad you decided to follow your instincts. Like with most other things, it seems like there are a lot of 'politics' involved with breeding, showing, and even the AMA. It sounds like you found a breeder that tries to stay above all of the pettiness, though, which is great. Plus, you'll have a breeder you feel comfortable with--it's important since you'll probably be in contact for the life of your puppy!

I look forward to seeing pics of your pup when you get him/her.  

Oh, and :Welcome 3:


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## EmmasMommy (Jun 2, 2008)

I feel so sorry that you have this experience.I have never heard of a "blackballing" but it sounds just terrible. Shame on those people. It just goes to prove there are creepy people in every business.

I was surprised at the lack of prompt follow-up when I was initially making e-mail inquiry's and phone calls to different reputable breeders.

Most of them were less than prompt getting back to me and some were flippant. ( Its no wonder some people go to the brokers and Pet stores)

Reputable dog breeders should all should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses. 

If I was selling something that precious to me I would definitely be kind to potential owners. To me its like an expectant mom thats giving a child up for adoption being rude to prospective adoptive parents, just NOT a good idea.

Best of luck with your new baby dog I am sure it will work out. Welcome to SM. And we await the PICTURES !


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## mom2b (Jan 15, 2010)

I am so very sorry that this happened to you, shame on them! This is very scary to me since I, too, am ready to take the plunge. This is a shame but it doesn't surprise me since my friend called a big breeder that is in my area and the breeder was less than nice.
There is no need for rudness or for attacking someone else's dogs. I think that speaks volumes about who they are and ultimately you have to ask yourself if that is the kind of person you want to buy a puppy from and work with for the next 10 years. 

Again I am really sorry this happened to you.
L


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## yorkieville (May 9, 2005)

QUOTE (marisag @ Feb 10 2010, 09:46 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884112


> Hi everyone. This is my first time on as a poster, though I have read many of your posts for awhile trying to learn about the Maltese breed. You guys have been insightful and wonderful. I have recently had a terrible experience that I want to talk about and I hope that you will not bash me because some of my comments may be upsetting.
> 
> I finally decided to take the plunge and purchase a Maltese puppy. I am recovering from surgery and was recently given clearance by my doctors to buy the puppy I've been aching for. I knew that I couldn't return to work until at least April, and I figured that I would choose a puppy that would be ready to come with me in March so I would have a month to get the puppy and I used to a new routine. I decided on a puppy from a breeder who has always gotten great reviews on your site, Josymir Maltese. I picked her based on your glowing comments and indeed she is everything that those of you who have purchased from her have said, courteous, professional and pleasant. I was so pleased with my choice and that this timing would be perfect. At my last checkup my doctor, finally happy with the progress of an incision that would not close, told me I could return to work earlier than planned, on March 1. Sometimes the best laid plans go asunder. While I was thrilled to finally be able to go back to work, the Josymir puppy wouldn't be available until much later in March. After being out for almost 6 months, my return to the company I work for will require some catch-up time. It would have been difficult to have a little puppy come home 3 weeks after I returned to work.
> 
> ...


Thank You for posting your experience. I am sorry, and very disappointed you were treated this way.

And thank you for speaking up for Josy. That takes class! And it is evident that Josy is one classy lady, the way she has handled the entire situation. 

Shame on the breeders for criticizing Josy's Malts. Personally, I think she has absolutely beautiful Malts!

Now, just focus on healing and getting back to work, and please, look forward to the day when you get your puppy from Josy!

Don't let these classless breeders ruin the anticipation for you! 

Sheila


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## bellasmummy (Apr 8, 2009)

Oh dear, im so sorry that happened but i know just what you are talking about. 

I have also had the same problem. Infact over here (maltese are not that common) the breeding world is very b!tchy. I was shocked by the rude remarks many made about other breeders and their maltese not to mention the things they said to try and put me off buying from another breeder. Horror stories which was def not true!! As you said to recommend another breeder if you dont have a puppy at that time yourself is a kinda and classy thing to do - You would think maltese breders would ''stick'' together but thats not the case for many..only 2 have ever suggested another breeder to me or told me if id like to look around that was fine. Another funny thing was many lie to each other about having puppies available. Ive no idea why this is and i found out simply by telling my friend (whos a breeder) that i was going to look at a ladys puppies the next week - only the lady had told her just a few weeks ago she didnt have any puppies and dint know when she would have any again...eh?? ive no idea why you would do that (after all my friend really didnt have pups and could have told people to go to her instead) but my friend said it happen quite often??

This lady who i was going to buy from (with the ''secret'' pups lol) found out i was looking at someone else puppy as well and like you suddenly the puppy she had was no longer available! It was pathetic but made me glad id seen her for what she really was - a not very nice person and not someonbody i would want to buy from. 

Ive also had the ones who are hard to get hold off, take forever to contact you back and then give out very little info...its almost as if by askig the 'right' questions you are bothering them!!!
:angry: 

There are however some very nice, kind and open breeders out there so dont let a few bad ones put you off xxx


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## Delilahs Mommy (Nov 22, 2009)

WOW! I am so sorry to read that you were treated like this. This is absolutely a shame. Well, I am glad you have found your puppy and can't wait to meet him/her!! Welcome to SM!! There are lots of great people here. :grouphug:


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## casa verde maltese (Apr 7, 2007)

Wow - I am so sorry. Sometimes it feels like we never leave highschool...


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 11:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884118


> Reputable dog breeders should all should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.[/B]


Ouch! That hurt.

MaryH


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## mom2b (Jan 15, 2010)

QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 12:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884159


> QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 11:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884118





> Reputable dog breeders should all should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.[/B]


Ouch! That hurt.

[/B][/QUOTE]

A little customer service course might not hurt but I think it comes down to common courtesy and treating others with kindness.

I spoke with my friend about the breeder she contacted that was not nice and told her about this thread and she is not surprised specially after the way she was treated.
So sad!


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## EmmasMommy (Jun 2, 2008)

QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 12:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884159


> QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 11:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884118





> Reputable dog breeders should all should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.[/B]


Ouch! That hurt.

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]
Touche Mary !

I guess I should have said that SOME dog breeders should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.

Not all should be included but I think its more common than the exception. You might be surprised.

I have heard on here and other forums and have had face to face conversations with other Malt owners that were "puppy shopping" while I was and this is pretty common. I also had the same reception from some professional dogs handlers I tried to employ. Kindness and courtesy are not hard to give.- in this economy its all the more important.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Sorry you had that type of experience. 

I don't know how it is with other breeds, but I had less-than-gracious treatment by one Malt breeder when I was searching for a puppy. 

I'm so blunt that I don't think that I would ever survive being in the Maltese breeder world. Sometimes I can barely deal with the "which breeder has the best high-end Malts" or similar conversations online. As if they are purses or something. 

I'm glad that Janet, Nikki's breeder, is so nice and down to earth. And of course there are some very nice Malt breeders right here on SM. 

The only thing I can remotely compare it to in my own personal experience is the figure skating world. Witches galore, with a capital *B*.


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## mostlytina (Jan 3, 2009)

Dear Marisag,

I am sorry to hear what you have been through but I am happy to hear that you follow your instinct. I can guarantee that your puppy worth the wait. I have one of Josy's baby and she is adorable, loving, happy and most of all, very healthy. I had wait more than 6 months for her to come. During that 6 months, she answered every single one of my questions, concerns and my grieving of losing my previous malt. She welcomed me to her house and to played with the dogs. She didn't rush me to make a decision even though there were other people waiting. She really knows her dogs well and she helped me to choose the right dog base on the traits that I want and fit my lifestyle. In the end, I got a dog who is well socialized, polite, intelligent, happy and beautiful. We will be taking a Canine Good Citizen test toward the end of this month and hopefully, she will be qualified as a therapy dog down the road. As you can see, I really enjoy Josy's dog and I am really happy that I got a dog from her and not other breeders. 

As for other breeder's bickering, you did the right thing by not choosing them. Josy has a champion that list No.7 in the nation last year. I think that speak for itself as how good the quality Josy's dogs are.


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## roxybaby22 (Feb 25, 2009)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Feb 10 2010, 01:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884171


> Sorry you had that type of experience.
> 
> I don't know how it is with other breeds, but I had less-than-gracious treatment by one Malt breeder when I was searching for a puppy.
> 
> ...


I also hate that because some of the most beautiful Maltese I have seen here have come from "lesser" known breeders, like Briana's Gigi and your Nikki (I'm not just saying that either).


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

To the original poster. I am terribly sorry about your experience. It is a very sad truth that sometimes breeders and show folks can become very competitive with another breeder and end up trashing the dogs in their lines. I have sat at ringside watching other breeds show and listened to people rip apart the dogs in the ring, so it is hardly exclusive to Maltese. In fact, I think that the way the AMA code of ethics is written helps to minimize this problem to some degree in our breed (present case aside). Here is the section in our code of ethics: 

*"I will refrain from publicly making or publishing any false or malicious statements about another member and will refrain from seeking to impair the reputation of another member. I will be courteous and helpful to people who contact meregarding dog information, offer assistance to serious novices and serve as an example of good sportsmanship in every aspect of the sport of dogs."*

Josy's dogs have a distinctive look. One I find very pleasing on the eye. She also is a fabulous groomer and presents her dogs to perfection in the ring. I have seen her at the shows a couple of times and have been very impressed with both her and the dog she was showing. 

You will be very lucky to have one of her dogs. Congratulations. :Flowers 2: 

QUOTE (Mom2B @ Feb 10 2010, 12:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884165


> QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 12:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884159





> QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 11:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884118





> Reputable dog breeders should all should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.[/B]


Ouch! That hurt.

[/B][/QUOTE]

A little customer service course might not hurt but I think it comes down to common courtesy and treating others with kindness.

I spoke with my friend about the breeder she contacted that was not nice and told her about this thread and she is not surprised specially after the way she was treated.
So sad!
[/B][/QUOTE]

I really do not like the idea of breeders being compared to "customer service" or "sales" agents. :huh: Breeders do need to remember courteousness when dealing with inquiries. However, I hope they are more concerned about the welfare of the puppies they have than about the "sales" or the "customer's" feelings. *IMO the best breeders are not producing puppies for a market.* They are producing puppies first and foremost to improve and preserve the breed. Of course, Maltese are companion dogs. So their purpose is to be a loving companions. *But the breeder's job is to be ever mindful of making sure that that works both ways. As they seek to produce the ideal companion dog, they also are searching for the ideal human companions for the dog. *This is a much different role than one has in a "customer service" job.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 01:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884166


> QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 12:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884159





> QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 11:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884118





> Reputable dog breeders should all should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.[/B]


Ouch! That hurt.

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]
Touche Mary !

I guess I should have said that SOME dog breeders should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.

Not all should be included but I think its more common than the exception. You might be surprised.

I have heard on here and other forums and have had face to face conversations with other Malt owners that were "puppy shopping" while I was and this is pretty common. I also had the same reception from some professional dogs handlers I tried to employ. Kindness and courtesy are not hard to give.- in this economy its all the more important.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with all of you that no one should be rude to anyone about anything ever. And trust me, I've been treated the same.

Now for the flip side -- I got home from work one night a couple of weeks ago (yes, I work full time) to find that one person called me 7 times that day but never left a message. Got my dogs exercised, fed and settled then ran out the door to a kennel club meeting. Got home at 9:45 to find 2 more calls from the same person but no message. At 7:30 the next morning on my way out the door to work I got another phone call. I answered the call and got "Do you know just how hard you are to reach? We have decided we want to get a Maltese. Do you have any puppies and how much?" While clamping down very hard on my tongue, I said "I'm so sorry that I was not available yesterday and I'm on my way out the door to work but I can call you tonight if that's convenient for you." He said yes, I called that night, we had a nice chat, I have no puppies but gave him some suggestions for continuing his search (and suggested that he leave messages as some breeders do work outside of the home) and said that I would be happy to call him in the future in the event I had a puppy available. This past Sunday I got a call at 8:15 a.m. Same thing ... "What do you have and how much?" I responded with "I'm sorry but I have no puppies right now and have no breeding planned for the near future." Before I could get another word out of my mouth she said "Well, I can see that you're not very helpful." and hung up on me ... and I hadn't even had my first cup of coffee yet! I'm not trying to discount anyone's frustration at being treated poorly or not getting the response they want when they want it; just letting you know that for all of you who are lovely people making reasonable inquiries there are at least as many who call at all hours of the day and night and whose approach is "what do you have and how much?" And that kind of inquiry upsets and saddens me because I love each and every puppy born into my home and see them as so much more than "what and how much".

MaryH


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Wow, Mary, how rude! 

I cannot stand when people treat a puppy as just another possession or accessory to acquire. It's just sickening.


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## bellasmummy (Apr 8, 2009)

How rude of them mary! Id be terrible at selling puppies...id never think any home was good enough!! lol the poor people wanting the puppy would be a 100 questions from ME not the other way around!!


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## CeeCee's Mom (Sep 14, 2006)

I have dealt with a lot of breeders trying to get a puppy over the last four or five years. Everyone except for one treated me with the utmost kindness and understanding. They talked with me and offered wonderful information and some either didn't have what I was looking for or did not have a pup at all but were so gracious. It does set you back when you encounter people who are out for their own good and will not reach out and pull in their fellow breeders in order to help them out. I am so sorry that you ran into this situation and I am so glad you found a breeder that is warm, compassionate and does not run other breeders down. It does not become someone to do that. You just learn in life what is important and I hope your little malt is everything that you dream of. I will say this, life without our little maltese in them, is not a full life at all!!!! :Flowers 2:


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 01:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884179


> QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 01:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884166





> QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 12:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884159





> QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 11:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884118





> Reputable dog breeders should all should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.[/B]


Ouch! That hurt.

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]
Touche Mary !

I guess I should have said that SOME dog breeders should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.

Not all should be included but I think its more common than the exception. You might be surprised.

I have heard on here and other forums and have had face to face conversations with other Malt owners that were "puppy shopping" while I was and this is pretty common. I also had the same reception from some professional dogs handlers I tried to employ. Kindness and courtesy are not hard to give.- in this economy its all the more important.
[/B][/QUOTE]

*I agree with all of you that no one should be rude to anyone about anything ever*. And trust me, I've been treated the same.

Now for the flip side -- I got home from work one night a couple of weeks ago (yes, I work full time) to find that one person called me 7 times that day but never left a message. Got my dogs exercised, fed and settled then ran out the door to a kennel club meeting. Got home at 9:45 to find 2 more calls from the same person but no message. At 7:30 the next morning on my way out the door to work I got another phone call. I answered the call and got "Do you know just how hard you are to reach? We have decided we want to get a Maltese. Do you have any puppies and how much?" While clamping down very hard on my tongue, I said "I'm so sorry that I was not available yesterday and I'm on my way out the door to work but I can call you tonight if that's convenient for you." He said yes, I called that night, we had a nice chat, I have no puppies but gave him some suggestions for continuing his search (and suggested that he leave messages as some breeders do work outside of the home) and said that I would be happy to call him in the future in the event I had a puppy available. This past Sunday I got a call at 8:15 a.m. Same thing ... "What do you have and how much?" I responded with "I'm sorry but I have no puppies right now and have no breeding planned for the near future." Before I could get another word out of my mouth she said "Well, I can see that you're not very helpful." and hung up on me ... and I hadn't even had my first cup of coffee yet! I'm not trying to discount anyone's frustration at being treated poorly or not getting the response they want when they want it; just letting you know that for all of you who are lovely people making reasonable inquiries there are at least as many who call at all hours of the day and night and whose approach is "what do you have and how much?" And that kind of inquiry upsets and saddens me because I love each and every puppy born into my home and see them as so much more than "what and how much".

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]



Was it another Mary H who posted this in one of my threads?

*More proof that your good points get lost in your unending, narrow-minded, argumentative approach. The articles, all of them, are about the importance of early socialization and about the fact that it is safe for puppies to attend puppy classes prior to being fully vaccinated. And that's the good point that you should be making. Instead, your spin, not the authors, is that they must be in their new homes by 8 wks of age because they will only benefit by socialization if it is the new owner doing the socializing. I'm done with this and should have been done with it before I even started!

MaryH *


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## 1malt4me (Oct 6, 2006)

First of all what was done to you was awful! :angry: Secondly beauty is something that is subjective and what might be beautiful to one might not be to another. Not everyone is looking for the same "look" and that is why there are a variety of dogs, breeds and breeders out there. So anyone can chose who they want.

I am appalled that someone would have the audacity and arrogance to make such statements. Sadly I know what you mean, when I was looking for breeders in PA I too came across 1 who turned me off. They kept building themselves up and I felt their arrogance was a bit off putting. Everyone is proud of their dogs and what they have accomplished but the feeling I got was "I am the best take it or leave it and if you can't afford it go somewhere else" so I did. I felt I was bothering them. I don't doubt their dogs were pretty but I couldn't deal with someone like that for nthe next 10 years. When I contacted Josy it was like a breath of fresh air and she was kind, helpful and honest.

I have one of Josy's puppies, like some others here do, and I feel that my puppy is gorgeous and not to mention very healthy. So what if my puppy doesn't have a certain "look", my baby has the face, temperament, and health that I wanted and that is all I could ask for plus I have a wonderful breeder that I can email any time and gets back to me every single time. Josy worked really hard and is very proud of her boy Turner. He is the #7 Maltese http://www.josymirmaltese.com/Dogs/Turner.htm so somebody else also thinks her dogs are nice not just us.

The Josy that you describe is the Josy that I have come to know and love. I would recommend Josy and a Josymir Maltese Puppy to anyone without hesitation because I know in my heart that they will get a good, healthy loving puppy and a lot of kindness, care and love from Josy.

You made the right choice, stick with her, and you won't go wrong. I can't wait to see your puppy I am sure he/she is beautiful.
hang in there
dee


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## villemo (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE (Bellasmummy @ Feb 10 2010, 05:55 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884137


> Oh dear, im so sorry that happened but i know just what you are talking about.
> 
> I have also had the same problem. Infact over here (maltese are not that common) the breeding world is very b!tchy. I was shocked by the rude remarks many made about other breeders and their maltese not to mention the things they said to try and put me off buying from another breeder. Horror stories which was def not true!! As you said to recommend another breeder if you dont have a puppy at that time yourself is a kinda and classy thing to do - You would think maltese breders would ''stick'' together but thats not the case for many..only 2 have ever suggested another breeder to me or told me if id like to look around that was fine. Another funny thing was many lie to each other about having puppies available. Ive no idea why this is and i found out simply by telling my friend (whos a breeder) that i was going to look at a ladys puppies the next week - only the lady had told her just a few weeks ago she didnt have any puppies and dint know when she would have any again...eh?? ive no idea why you would do that (after all my friend really didnt have pups and could have told people to go to her instead) but my friend said it happen quite often??[/B]



same here, and I wasn´t even looking for a puppy - just a little bit of information.
that´s the main reason why I left all german maltese forums a few years ago...
the one side is, what you see on the open forum, the other is, what info you get without even asking for it in pm´s or at dogshows.
phew - who needs that?


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

"I have waited years for a new puppy. My two year old standard poodle died several years ago after we opened a new bag of Royal Canin dog food and he ate one meal of that tainted Chinese food."


I feed mine Royal Canin the Dental formula,it's made in China? wow,I'm going to ask my vet about that.I pay $73 per bag.
I have to get it from my vet ,since a perscription food,it helps keep down the tartar build up,so combined w/ me brushing their teeth,I don't have to put them through the ordeal of teeth cleaning. I hate to put my dogs under,it's dangerous,especially for just a teeth cleaning procedure.


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## scooch (Sep 18, 2008)

QUOTE (1malt4me @ Feb 10 2010, 02:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884196


> First of all what was done to you was awful! :angry: Secondly beauty is something that is subjective and what might be beautiful to one might not be to another. Not everyone is looking for the same "look" and that is why there are a variety of dogs, breeds and breeders out there. So anyone can chose who they want.
> 
> I am appalled that someone would have the audacity and arrogance to make such statements. Sadly I know what you mean, when I was looking for breeders in PA I too came across 1 who turned me off. They kept building themselves up and I felt their arrogance was a bit off putting. Everyone is proud of their dogs and what they have accomplished but the feeling I got was "I am the best take it or leave it and if you can't afford it go somewhere else" so I did. I felt I was bothering them. I don't doubt their dogs were pretty but I couldn't deal with someone like that for nthe next 10 years. When I contacted Josy it was like a breath of fresh air and she was kind, helpful and honest.
> 
> ...


 :goodpost: I agree 100% I wouldn't change my decision with my josymir puppy for anything


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

Josy was definitely on my short list of breeders. I found her very helpful and informative. Unfortunately as you discovered, she did not have a puppy and thought she would not have a litter til fall. 

I contacted and spoke to a number of breeders before making my choice and just as an observation I came to several conclusions:

I did not contact anyone unless I had first researched them both by word of mouth and the internet (some have web sites some do not). I only contacted those I was SERIOUSLY interested in. Someone mentioned here, and I honestly don't remember who it was, that they had contacted 50 breeders before make a decision. My experience over the last 2 months has been that there are a significant number of puppies available. Contacting that many is confusing as well as a waste of my time and theirs. 

I tried to keep a "short" list of no more than 3 or 4 breeders, if for one reason or another a breeder got crossed off then I would consider another. 

When contacting a breeder I first sent an email, explaining what I was looking for and asking if they had anything available. To some emails I received no response, those I crossed off. Some breeders sent me the information I needed. The only breeders I actually called were those who asked me to call and I only called them after sending them an email asking what a good time to call would be. I am busy and they are busy and I don't have time to play telephone tag. 

I NEVER told one breeder that I was talking to another, that sets you up for problems. And I would never tell a breeder if someone had said something negative about them or their dogs. I believe the Maltese Breeder code of ethics says that one breeder is not supposed to speak badly of another. I only had one breeder start talking trash about another and I ended the conversation quickly and crossed that person off. 

It must be very hard for a breeder to weed out the serious buyers from the I'm calling on a whim callers and I can understand that it may take a few phone calls to warm up. I always sent an email thanking them for their time as a follow up. 

In the end I chose the breeder that I felt had taken the most time to match the puppy I was getting with my needs. Some breeders were so intent on telling you about the beautiful faces and ice white coats that they never got around to addressing what , to me, is the most important issue in a pet: personality.


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

QUOTE (CloudClan @ Feb 10 2010, 01:37 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884178


> I really do not like the idea of breeders being compared to "customer service" or "sales" agents. :huh: Breeders do need to remember courteousness when dealing with inquiries. However, I hope they are more concerned about the welfare of the puppies they have than about the "sales" or the "customer's" feelings. *IMO the best breeders are not producing puppies for a market.* They are producing puppies first and foremost to improve and preserve the breed. Of course, Maltese are companion dogs. So their purpose is to be a loving companions. *But the breeder's job is to be ever mindful of making sure that that works both ways. As they seek to produce the ideal companion dog, they also are searching for the ideal human companions for the dog. *This is a much different role than one has in a "customer service" job.[/B]


Here, here. 
I underlined what I agreed w/ most. 
Breeders are NOT customer sales representatives. Well said, Carina.


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## 1malt4me (Oct 6, 2006)

QUOTE (godiva goddess @ Feb 10 2010, 02:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884208


> QUOTE (CloudClan @ Feb 10 2010, 01:37 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884178





> I really do not like the idea of breeders being compared to "customer service" or "sales" agents.[/B]


Here, here. 
I underlined what I agreed w/ most. 
Breeders are NOT customer sales representatives. Well said, Carina.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I believe the original poster of that comment meant it is as they should get a course on kindness and professionalism and didn't imply that they are sale reps.

The main topic of this threat is the tragedy of what happened to the original poster and how unkind some breeders were to a fellow breeder and that is not right.
Dee


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

That's terrible. Politics are everywhere and it's going to be the death of freedom in every aspect of our lives....
I know in a very compeditive world ,maybe top certain Maltese breeders are a small group so they might be more "catty" for lack of a better term. I don't know how it works but judging from you post it seems to be a small ,well controlled area... Having said that,I'm sure I'm be black balled next....
I dealt with that in the art area,certain galleries had their pet artists and if that artist didn't like you,they'd pursuade the gallery not to carry your work. They'd even black ball you from certain venues. Or if you sold to one gallery the other galleries would black ball you. I had one artist who had such a strangle hold on a few east coast galleries that ,at one venue, she actually threw at fit during the gallery show ,demanding that my work be thrown out of the show of she'd walk out.One venue I displayed in she actually vandalized a couple of my pieces.... in front of witnesses.
Another time I was doing a trade show,which I PAID for the booth space,she brought the show promoters to my table and demanded that I be removed from the show. They just laughed at her and said I paid to be there just like her,she may run galleries but she doesn't run them. Next year she was denied a table to display at that show. I know it happens in many elite venues,sad to say.
I know it's not the same thing as you went though but sometimes people have powerful influence and I would say if they are that easily disuaded by a maliscuousness to sell you a puppy,maybe they're not the breeder for you.
I don't know if it's anyone on list who would have done that.. Follow your heart and research the breeder as best you can and make sure your puppy is healthy,that's all I can say since I don't know much about breeders to buy from.

I used to think,"who do you have to dry hump to get somewhere around here?"

I guess it's a dog eat dog world out there.

It's really sad,all we really want is a fluff to love. You know there's always rescue I guess,unless you plan to show...


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (vjw @ Feb 10 2010, 12:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884194


> QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 01:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884179





> QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 01:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884166





> QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 12:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884159





> QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 11:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884118





> Reputable dog breeders should all should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.[/B]


Ouch! That hurt.

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]
Touche Mary !

I guess I should have said that SOME dog breeders should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.

Not all should be included but I think its more common than the exception. You might be surprised.

I have heard on here and other forums and have had face to face conversations with other Malt owners that were "puppy shopping" while I was and this is pretty common. I also had the same reception from some professional dogs handlers I tried to employ. Kindness and courtesy are not hard to give.- in this economy its all the more important.
[/B][/QUOTE]

*I agree with all of you that no one should be rude to anyone about anything ever*. And trust me, I've been treated the same.

Now for the flip side -- I got home from work one night a couple of weeks ago (yes, I work full time) to find that one person called me 7 times that day but never left a message. Got my dogs exercised, fed and settled then ran out the door to a kennel club meeting. Got home at 9:45 to find 2 more calls from the same person but no message. At 7:30 the next morning on my way out the door to work I got another phone call. I answered the call and got "Do you know just how hard you are to reach? We have decided we want to get a Maltese. Do you have any puppies and how much?" While clamping down very hard on my tongue, I said "I'm so sorry that I was not available yesterday and I'm on my way out the door to work but I can call you tonight if that's convenient for you." He said yes, I called that night, we had a nice chat, I have no puppies but gave him some suggestions for continuing his search (and suggested that he leave messages as some breeders do work outside of the home) and said that I would be happy to call him in the future in the event I had a puppy available. This past Sunday I got a call at 8:15 a.m. Same thing ... "What do you have and how much?" I responded with "I'm sorry but I have no puppies right now and have no breeding planned for the near future." Before I could get another word out of my mouth she said "Well, I can see that you're not very helpful." and hung up on me ... and I hadn't even had my first cup of coffee yet! I'm not trying to discount anyone's frustration at being treated poorly or not getting the response they want when they want it; just letting you know that for all of you who are lovely people making reasonable inquiries there are at least as many who call at all hours of the day and night and whose approach is "what do you have and how much?" And that kind of inquiry upsets and saddens me because I love each and every puppy born into my home and see them as so much more than "what and how much".

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]



Was it another Mary H who posted this in one of my threads?

*More proof that your good points get lost in your unending, narrow-minded, argumentative approach. The articles, all of them, are about the importance of early socialization and about the fact that it is safe for puppies to attend puppy classes prior to being fully vaccinated. And that's the good point that you should be making. Instead, your spin, not the authors, is that they must be in their new homes by 8 wks of age because they will only benefit by socialization if it is the new owner doing the socializing. I'm done with this and should have been done with it before I even started!

MaryH *
[/B][/QUOTE]

What? I'm confused. What does the above quote from Mary in a different thread have to do with what was just posted? I must be having a blonde moment because I don't get the connection.


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## roxybaby22 (Feb 25, 2009)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Feb 10 2010, 03:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884215


> QUOTE (vjw @ Feb 10 2010, 12:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884194





> QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 01:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884179





> QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 01:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884166





> QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 12:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884159





> QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 11:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884118





> Reputable dog breeders should all should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.[/B]


Ouch! That hurt.

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]
Touche Mary !

I guess I should have said that SOME dog breeders should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.

Not all should be included but I think its more common than the exception. You might be surprised.

I have heard on here and other forums and have had face to face conversations with other Malt owners that were "puppy shopping" while I was and this is pretty common. I also had the same reception from some professional dogs handlers I tried to employ. Kindness and courtesy are not hard to give.- in this economy its all the more important.
[/B][/QUOTE]

*I agree with all of you that no one should be rude to anyone about anything ever*. And trust me, I've been treated the same.

Now for the flip side -- I got home from work one night a couple of weeks ago (yes, I work full time) to find that one person called me 7 times that day but never left a message. Got my dogs exercised, fed and settled then ran out the door to a kennel club meeting. Got home at 9:45 to find 2 more calls from the same person but no message. At 7:30 the next morning on my way out the door to work I got another phone call. I answered the call and got "Do you know just how hard you are to reach? We have decided we want to get a Maltese. Do you have any puppies and how much?" While clamping down very hard on my tongue, I said "I'm so sorry that I was not available yesterday and I'm on my way out the door to work but I can call you tonight if that's convenient for you." He said yes, I called that night, we had a nice chat, I have no puppies but gave him some suggestions for continuing his search (and suggested that he leave messages as some breeders do work outside of the home) and said that I would be happy to call him in the future in the event I had a puppy available. This past Sunday I got a call at 8:15 a.m. Same thing ... "What do you have and how much?" I responded with "I'm sorry but I have no puppies right now and have no breeding planned for the near future." Before I could get another word out of my mouth she said "Well, I can see that you're not very helpful." and hung up on me ... and I hadn't even had my first cup of coffee yet! I'm not trying to discount anyone's frustration at being treated poorly or not getting the response they want when they want it; just letting you know that for all of you who are lovely people making reasonable inquiries there are at least as many who call at all hours of the day and night and whose approach is "what do you have and how much?" And that kind of inquiry upsets and saddens me because I love each and every puppy born into my home and see them as so much more than "what and how much".

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]



Was it another Mary H who posted this in one of my threads?

*More proof that your good points get lost in your unending, narrow-minded, argumentative approach. The articles, all of them, are about the importance of early socialization and about the fact that it is safe for puppies to attend puppy classes prior to being fully vaccinated. And that's the good point that you should be making. Instead, your spin, not the authors, is that they must be in their new homes by 8 wks of age because they will only benefit by socialization if it is the new owner doing the socializing. I'm done with this and should have been done with it before I even started!

MaryH *
[/B][/QUOTE]

What? I'm confused. What does the above quote from Mary in a different thread have to do with what was just posted? I must be having a blonde moment because I don't get the connection.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I think it was just bitterness. IMO, to stir up drama.

BTW, OP, I like how your handling the situation.


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## EmmasMommy (Jun 2, 2008)

QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 11:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884118


> I feel so sorry that you have this experience.I have never heard of a "blackballing" but it sounds just terrible. Shame on those people. It just goes to prove there are creepy people in every business.
> 
> I was surprised at the lack of prompt follow-up when I was initially making e-mail inquiry's and phone calls to different reputable breeders.
> 
> ...


This is my whole post and although the customer servivce and sales reference may seem cold..........breeders ARE selling puppies and they are dealing with the public that they are selling TO.......and the sales and customer services courses....teach COURTESY and how to interact with people. AND if you read what I wrote in the very next sentence you would get my point.......

If I was selling something that precious to me I would definitely be kind to potential owners. To me its like an expectant mom thats giving a child up for adoption being rude to prospective adoptive parents, just NOT a good idea.[/i]

And just maybe some of these reputable breeders should re-read that AMA code of ethics.- especially the do not gossip part-



Why is it wrong to ask if they have puppies, the sex and the price ? I asked those things in the beginning because I didn't know how else to start the conversation. These are normal questions. 

Please don't get defensive.......it was merely that several people ( more than 1 or 2) have had similar unpleasant experiences, that is all.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

QUOTE (1malt4me @ Feb 10 2010, 03:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884213


> QUOTE (godiva goddess @ Feb 10 2010, 02:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884208





> QUOTE (CloudClan @ Feb 10 2010, 01:37 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884178





> I really do not like the idea of breeders being compared to "customer service" or "sales" agents.[/B]


Here, here. 
I underlined what I agreed w/ most. 
Breeders are NOT customer sales representatives. Well said, Carina.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I believe the original poster of that comment meant it is as they should get a course on kindness and professionalism and didn't imply that they are sale reps.

The main topic of this threat is the tragedy of what happened to the original poster and how unkind some breeders were to a fellow breeder and that is not right.
Dee
[/B][/QUOTE]

Exactly! 

I don't think that anyone meant to imply that breeders should be good salespeople, just courteous. There's a huge difference between the two things.


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

QUOTE (1malt4me @ Feb 10 2010, 03:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884213


> QUOTE (godiva goddess @ Feb 10 2010, 02:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884208





> QUOTE (CloudClan @ Feb 10 2010, 01:37 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884178





> I really do not like the idea of breeders being compared to "customer service" or "sales" agents.[/B]


Here, here. 
I underlined what I agreed w/ most. 
Breeders are NOT customer sales representatives. Well said, Carina.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I believe the original poster of that comment meant it is as they should get a course on kindness and professionalism and didn't imply that they are sale reps.

The main topic of this threat is the tragedy of what happened to the original poster and how unkind some breeders were to a fellow breeder and that is not right.
Dee
[/B][/QUOTE]

I know what the main topic is. 

My remark was responding and quoting Carina's comment, NOT the OP.

Also, refer to post 10, 11 for reference in terms of the customer service comments.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Oh, whatever. I should have followed my original instinct and stayed far away from SM today.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Feb 10 2010, 04:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884234


> Oh, whatever. I should have followed my original instinct and stayed far away from SM today.[/B]


That's what I'm doing! LOL But I have to agree with this, LOL, designer maltese, :HistericalSmiley: : 

QUOTE (roxybaby22 @ Feb 10 2010, 01:34 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884177


> QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Feb 10 2010, 01:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884171





> Sorry you had that type of experience.
> 
> I don't know how it is with other breeds, but I had less-than-gracious treatment by one Malt breeder when I was searching for a puppy.
> 
> ...


I also hate that because some of the most beautiful Maltese I have seen here have come from "lesser" known breeders, like Briana's Gigi and your Nikki (I'm not just saying that either).
[/B][/QUOTE]


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## mi_ku_5 (Jun 2, 2008)

If breeders took lessons in customer service and sales, half would be rude and the other half would be impossible to understand.


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## 1malt4me (Oct 6, 2006)

Once again...
I believe the original poster of that comment meant it is as they should get a course on kindness and professionalism and didn't imply that they are sale reps. or that they should be

So please don't make a bigger deal of this than what it is because it detracts from the main focus of the post. 
Respectfully


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## 1malt4me (Oct 6, 2006)

Some of you can tell that I am really upset about all of this. I take personal offense in what happened. To me there are 2 terrible things that happened here 1 that a good, honest, hard working, loving Maltese breeder's dogs were criticized and 2 that there are breeders like this out there who feel the need to bash other breeder's dogs for what ever reason.

Shame on them!


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Feb 10 2010, 03:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884215


> QUOTE (vjw @ Feb 10 2010, 12:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884194





> QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 01:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884179





> QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 12:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884159





> QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 11:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884118





> Reputable dog breeders should all should take some "customer service" and "sales" courses.[/B]


Ouch! That hurt.

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]


*I agree with all of you that no one should be rude to anyone about anything ever*. And trust me, I've been treated the same.

[/B][/QUOTE]



Was it another Mary H who posted this in one of my threads?

*More proof that your good points get lost in your unending, narrow-minded, argumentative approach. The articles, all of them, are about the importance of early socialization and about the fact that it is safe for puppies to attend puppy classes prior to being fully vaccinated. And that's the good point that you should be making. Instead, your spin, not the authors, is that they must be in their new homes by 8 wks of age because they will only benefit by socialization if it is the new owner doing the socializing. I'm done with this and should have been done with it before I even started!

MaryH *
[/B][/QUOTE]

What? I'm confused. What does the above quote from Mary in a different thread have to do with what was just posted? I must be having a blonde moment because I don't get the connection.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Stacy, 
I think that this post was an ironic attempt to prove Mary's point about in an earlier thread about an "argumentative approach." But I have to agree I don't see how it connects to this thread. 

QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 03:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884227


> QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 11:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884118





> I feel so sorry that you have this experience.I have never heard of a "blackballing" but it sounds just terrible. Shame on those people. It just goes to prove there are creepy people in every business.
> 
> I was surprised at the lack of prompt follow-up when I was initially making e-mail inquiry's and phone calls to different reputable breeders.
> 
> ...


This is my whole post and although the customer servivce and sales reference may seem cold..........breeders ARE selling puppies and they are dealing with the public that they are selling TO.......and the sales and customer services courses....teach COURTESY and how to interact with people. AND if you read what I wrote in the very next sentence you would get my point.......

If I was selling something that precious to me I would definitely be kind to potential owners. To me its like an expectant mom thats giving a child up for adoption being rude to prospective adoptive parents, just NOT a good idea.[/i]

And just maybe some of these reputable breeders should re-read that AMA code of ethics.- especially the do not gossip part-



Why is it wrong to ask if they have puppies, the sex and the price ? I asked those things in the beginning because I didn't know how else to start the conversation. These are normal questions. 

Please don't get defensive.......it was merely that several people ( more than 1 or 2) have had similar unpleasant experiences, that is all.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Cat,

I appologize if I sound defensive here. It is one of those touchy issues with me. And I don't mean to imply that you believe that puppies are a commodity. I just want to point out the dangers of using certain language when we consider these issues. 

I have never bred a litter of puppies, but I have been on a number of rescue contact lists when I was more actively fostering and it used to drive me crazy the way some people would call and assume that they could have a made to order product that I could pull of the shelf and offer them. I had a father call on Christmas eve and ask me if I had a "puppy" he could give his kids for Christmas. When I told him a. No and b. we would not place a dog as a Christmas gift, the gentleman got a bit beligerent and asked me if I would give him the number for PETLAND. :eek2_gelb2: Now, I can promise you, I stayed as polite and reasonable as I was capable of in those circumstances, but the fact is that I did not see my role as letting the "customer" be right. Down the road, as I consider breeding in the future, I hope I never start to see myself as serving the customers for a market. 

I think you make a good point about breeders needing to establish a good relationship with the people who may acquire a pet from them, but frankly, some of the people I know in the dog world are not "people-people." But they are "dog-people" and that is more important to me.


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## 1malt4me (Oct 6, 2006)

QUOTE


> I think you make a good point about breeders needing to establish a good relationship with the people who may acquire a pet from them, but frankly, some of the people I know in the dog world are not "people-people." But they are "dog-people" and that is more important to me.[/B]


I don't see a reason why you couldn't be both. people-people and dog-people and even if you are dog-people I don't see why you can't be polite to others and most importantly honorable in your dealings and not say negative things about someone else's dogs. This is a matter of a breeder attacking another breeder for their own reasons. The rudeness to people is definitely there as a side point, but making remarks about someone else's dog should be a NO NO. That is not professional.

Dee


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

QUOTE (1malt4me @ Feb 10 2010, 04:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884255


> QUOTE





> I think you make a good point about breeders needing to establish a good relationship with the people who may acquire a pet from them, but frankly, some of the people I know in the dog world are not "people-people." But they are "dog-people" and that is more important to me.[/B]


I don't see a reason why you couldn't be both. people-people and dog-people and even if you are dog-people I don't see why you can't be polite to others and most importantly honorable in your dealings and not say negative things about someone else's dogs. This is a matter of a breeder attacking another breeder for their own reasons. The rudeness to people is definitely there as a side point, but making remarks about someone else's dog should be a NO NO. That is not professional.

Dee
[/B][/QUOTE]

You do not have to be a "people person" to be polite, gracious, and kind. It's called manners. And that goes for Breeders and Owners.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (mi_ku_5 @ Feb 10 2010, 04:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884236


> If breeders took lessons in customer service and sales, half would be rude and the other half would be impossible to understand.[/B]


 :rofl: 

QUOTE (1malt4me @ Feb 10 2010, 04:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884243


> Some of you can tell that I am really upset about all of this. I take personal offense in what happened. To me there are 2 terrible things that happened here 1 that a good, honest, hard working, loving Maltese breeder's dogs were criticized and 2 that there are breeders like this out there who feel the need to bash other breeder's dogs for what ever reason.
> 
> Shame on them![/B]



QUOTE (1malt4me @ Feb 10 2010, 04:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884255


> QUOTE





> I think you make a good point about breeders needing to establish a good relationship with the people who may acquire a pet from them, but frankly, some of the people I know in the dog world are not "people-people." But they are "dog-people" and that is more important to me.[/B]


I don't see a reason why you couldn't be both. people-people and dog-people and even if you are dog-people I don't see why you can't be polite to others and most importantly honorable in your dealings and not say negative things about someone else's dogs. This is a matter of a breeder attacking another breeder for their own reasons. The rudeness to people is definitely there as a side point, but making remarks about someone else's dog should be a NO NO. That is not professional.

Dee
[/B][/QUOTE]

Dee,

I agree with you absolutely that the original poster's point should not be lost here. You are right. This was a terrible thing that happened and as I previously pointed out it is against the AMA code ethics. I think you are right we should be sure not to lose that in the discussion.

I appologize if you feel I was hijacking the thread in the discussion of the way we use language and perspective.


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## roxybaby22 (Feb 25, 2009)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Feb 10 2010, 04:54 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884256


> QUOTE (1malt4me @ Feb 10 2010, 04:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884255





> QUOTE





> I think you make a good point about breeders needing to establish a good relationship with the people who may acquire a pet from them, but frankly, some of the people I know in the dog world are not "people-people." But they are "dog-people" and that is more important to me.[/B]


I don't see a reason why you couldn't be both. people-people and dog-people and even if you are dog-people I don't see why you can't be polite to others and most importantly honorable in your dealings and not say negative things about someone else's dogs. This is a matter of a breeder attacking another breeder for their own reasons. The rudeness to people is definitely there as a side point, but making remarks about someone else's dog should be a NO NO. That is not professional.

Dee
[/B][/QUOTE]

You do not have to be a "people person" to be polite, gracious, and kind. It's called manners. And that goes for Breeders and Owners.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with everything you said, Suzan.


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## 1malt4me (Oct 6, 2006)

QUOTE


> Dee,
> 
> I agree with you absolutely that the original poster's point should not be lost here. You are right. This was a terrible thing that happened and as I previously pointed out it is against the AMA code ethics. I think you are right we should be sure not to lose that in the discussion.
> 
> I appologize if you feel I was hijacking the thread in the discussion of the way we use language and perspective.[/B]


thanks I appreciate that but don't worry. I understand how things can get sidetracked. I have a question what if abreeder is not an AMA member? I feel that whether they are an AMA member or not they shouldn't make negative comments about others and they shouldn't make this a bad experience for a person looking for a puppy. That is what has me up in arms.
Dee


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

QUOTE (EmmasMommy @ Feb 10 2010, 03:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884227


> Why is it wrong to ask if they have puppies, the sex and the price ? I asked those things in the beginning because I didn't know how else to start the conversation. These are normal questions.
> 
> Please don't get defensive.......it was merely that several people ( more than 1 or 2) have had similar unpleasant experiences, that is all.[/B]


Cat, I totally agree that asking if there are puppies available, the sex and the price are reasonable questions. Starting the conversation with "You're tough to reach" or calling at what I consider to be unreasonable times (before 9 a.m and after 9 p.m.) don't set the tone well for me. My idea of perfect is someone who calls and starts with "Hi, we've done a lot of research about the breed, think we'd like to add a Maltese to our family, and have some questions." That sort of opening gives both the caller and me the opportunity to learn about each other. I almost always have to tell people that I don't have anything available but I'm always happy to talk about this wonderful breed, answer questions and help send the person in the right direction to find the puppy of their dreams. It's the person who wants no conversation beyond gender, price & availability that I have concerns with. I had a litter last spring, 3 boys and 1 girl, and I was keeping the girl. Got some calls, one was insistent that she must have a girl and wouldn't I please sell her the girl. "No, girl not available." "Can I come see boys?" "Sure, next weekend." Got a call mid-week, she ripped into me about how she wouldn't be coming to see the boys, she should not have to beg me for what she wants, I should be thankful that she wants to take the girl off my hands, and clearly we cannot do business together because all I cared about was money, not the happiness of the dog." So how's that for a lovely conversation? My point in sharing this is that while it's not nice, it happens on both sides, and sometimes your call may have come on the heels of a call from a real jerk.

Back to the topic of the OP -- I'm so sorry for what you had to deal with. Whether dog-people, people-people or just people, how sad that they weren't able to be DECENT people. When I get asked I will give out contact info for a couple of breeders local to me; I know them, know their dogs, know how/where they live and how/where their dogs live. When asked for my opinion on other local breeders I give my standard response -- "I've just given you the names of breeders who I would buy from. I know them, know their dogs, know how/where they live and how/where their dogs live." If I can't say something nice, I will say nothing at all. But I'd never call anyone's Maltese ugly, that's just plain cruel.

MaryH


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

It is pretty cut and dry for me....
If you are in business, which a Breeder is, you need to protect your reputation! The client or customer MUST be treated with up-most respect. The Breeder that gets the reputation of being nice and taking time for someone looking for a dog is the one most will come back to and word travels fast. Other than in the heat of a Show which I would never bother the Breeder while they are concentrating on the dog and showing, building a relationship with someone that may be taking one of their pups will come back to them two-fold.

A Breeder that trashed another publicly for what ever reason is at the bottom of the barrel and I would steer clear. They are up to no good and can't be trusted.

IMO


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (1malt4me @ Feb 10 2010, 05:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884270


> thanks I appreciate that but don't worry. I understand how things can get sidetracked. I have a question what if abreeder is not an AMA member? I feel that whether they are an AMA member or not they shouldn't make negative comments about others and they shouldn't make this a bad experience for a person looking for a puppy. That is what has me up in arms.
> Dee[/B]


Dee,

I believe that anyone who breeds should know and follow the code of ethics for the parent breed club wether they are a member or not. This is one of the hallmarks of an ethical breeder. 

AKC has a similar set of guidelines called the AKC Code of Sportsmanship, so if we are talking about show breeders they have to acknowledge that they are living up to this code when they participate in any AKC event. In other words, if we are talking about show breeders here they are supposed to be "playing by the rules of fairness and integrity" outlined in this document.

Some of my favorites from this document include:

• Sportsmen find that *vigorous competition and civility are not inconsistent and are able to appreciate the merit of their competition and the effort of competitors.*
• Sportsmen *welcome, encourage and support newcomers *to the sport.
• Sportsmen *will deal fairly with all those who trade with them*.
• Sportsmen *always consider as paramount the welfare of their dog.*


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

QUOTE (mi_ku_5 @ Feb 10 2010, 04:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884236


> If breeders took lessons in customer service and sales, half would be rude and the other half would be impossible to understand.[/B]


LOL!!!!! :HistericalSmiley: 

QUOTE (1malt4me @ Feb 10 2010, 04:18 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884239


> Once again...
> I believe the original poster of that comment meant it is as they should get a course on kindness and professionalism and didn't imply that they are sale reps. or that they should be
> 
> So please don't make a bigger deal of this than what it is because it detracts from the main focus of the post.
> Respectfully[/B]


I think everyone knows what the OP meant. However, there were subsequent other comments that stated breeders should take classes in customer service. As usual, threads/topics on SM do expand onto other peripheral topics but it is not "off track" per se. For example, you asked a good question in post 44 about a breeder being an AMA member. It is not exactly "on point" to the OP's post neither, but I think it is still relevant and we all can learn from it (i.e, Carina's answer for you on post 47). 

No one is making a "big deal," we are just having a discussion.

I think we all agree that being polite and respectful is common sense manners, applicable to everyone, breeders or not. Talking bad about other breeders is a poor reflection of one's character and is bad judgment. Unfortunately, we do not live in utopia and not everyone is capable of being civilized and respectful.


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## mi_ku_5 (Jun 2, 2008)

There are people like that in all walks of life and the only thing you can really do is avoid them. I think the OP did the right thing by not buying from the trash talkers. IMO, such behavior is usually a sign of insecurity, immaturity and/or jealousy, especially if they can't offer a good reason to avoid such a breeder. For example, I can understand a breeder telling a buyer to be careful of a particular stud b/c he produces health issues. I would welcome such advice. Saying the person who has a #7 ranked dog isn't producing good looking puppies is adsurd though. 

I've noticed a lot of this goes on w/ non-show breeders. Instead of just saying they don't show, they have to take shots at those who do. The claim show breeders' dogs are crated 24/7 inorder to maintain show coats, that show breeders cheat (use fake hair, dyes and bribes), are snobby and that they care more about winning than they do about dogs. I'm sure there are show breeders like that, but I'm equally sure that they are the minority.


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## ann80 (Jun 13, 2009)

It is just a shame to read the original post experience. Please know we are here to help you, glad you are making a good recovery from your surgery & look forward to hearing about your new puppy. Keep us posted!


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

To the OP, I admire you for standing up for what you believed in - and that being the breeder that the rest were badmouthing. You were completely right not to deal with these other awful people.

Personally, I don't give my money to people who aren't nice. I wouldn't care if a breeder had the most perfect puppy in the world (as if that really existed)- if they had a bad attitude, were manipulative, petty, or just not a nice person to deal with- I would _never_ buy a dog from them. I just find it all so distasteful. 

People should behave as though they have manners (and try for grace as well), to behave any other way is just unacceptable to me (and that's a 2 way street).


PS- I'm sure you are going to be in love with your new puppy!


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

To the OP: I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. I just don't understand exhibitors/breeders badmouthing another to someone they barely know. I haven't spoken with many Maltese breeders, but have met and gotten to know several Yorkie exhibitors/breeders and heard about many more. Unfortunately, some of them can just be vicious... I've met a couple that did nothing but badmouth other breeders and their dogs, give another a hug and then call them a bitch as soon as they walked off, told me how they hated another breeder and then got online and posted a congrats thread to that breeder they hate and said how good of friends they were. I just really can't stand insincere people... I don't expect all exhibitors to like each other but they should at least be able to be civil and not bad-mouth each other to everyone else. Anyway, not everyone is like that...I've also met some very honest, nice, sincere exhibitors/breeders. 

There was actually a Yorkie breeder that I thought I would probably buy from when I get my next yorkie...but then I found out that she's very very rude to other exhibitors and will bad-mouth them to their face and behind their back. And I just don't like that...I will not buy a puppy from someone who is rude and unsportsmanlike to others. There are breeders out there that are classy and sincere people, and I'll choose to buy from them. 

Good Luck with your new puppy!

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Feb 10 2010, 12:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884171


> Sorry you had that type of experience.
> 
> I don't know how it is with other breeds, but I had less-than-gracious treatment by one Malt breeder when I was searching for a puppy.
> 
> ...


Yeah...I've thought the exact same thing. Sometimes it seriously sounds like people are tossing around brand/designer names with their dogs..."I have a ....." instead of "my dog's breeder is" or "I got my dog from".


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## coconuts (Apr 19, 2009)

I just have to say that I got really luck and found Coconut from a great breeder (Janet McAlister Phlicks maltese). She was the nicest person and we still talk and email each other. But I did talk to others before her and they were all nice to me.


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## janettandamber (Jan 19, 2009)

:Waiting:


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (theboyz @ Feb 10 2010, 03:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884274


> It is pretty cut and dry for me....
> If you are in business, which a Breeder is, you need to protect your reputation! The client or customer MUST be treated with up-most respect. The Breeder that gets the reputation of being nice and taking time for someone looking for a dog is the one most will come back to and word travels fast. Other than in the heat of a Show which I would never bother the Breeder while they are concentrating on the dog and showing, building a relationship with someone that may be taking one of their pups will come back to them two-fold.
> 
> _*A Breeder that trashed another publicly for what ever reason is at the bottom of the barrel and I would steer clear. They are up to no good and can't be trusted*_.
> ...



I couldn't agree with this statement more. Taking 'private' issues public is a huge no-no, in my opinion.


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Feb 11 2010, 02:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884430


> QUOTE (theboyz @ Feb 10 2010, 03:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884274





> It is pretty cut and dry for me....
> If you are in business, which a Breeder is, you need to protect your reputation! The client or customer MUST be treated with up-most respect. The Breeder that gets the reputation of being nice and taking time for someone looking for a dog is the one most will come back to and word travels fast. Other than in the heat of a Show which I would never bother the Breeder while they are concentrating on the dog and showing, building a relationship with someone that may be taking one of their pups will come back to them two-fold.
> 
> _*A Breeder that trashed another publicly for what ever reason is at the bottom of the barrel and I would steer clear. They are up to no good and can't be trusted*_.
> ...



I couldn't agree with this statement more. Taking 'private' issues public is a huge no-no, in my opinion.
[/B][/QUOTE]

So true!


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (shanghaimomma @ Feb 11 2010, 01:08 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884433


> QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Feb 11 2010, 02:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884430





> QUOTE (theboyz @ Feb 10 2010, 03:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884274





> It is pretty cut and dry for me....
> If you are in business, which a Breeder is, you need to protect your reputation! The client or customer MUST be treated with up-most respect. The Breeder that gets the reputation of being nice and taking time for someone looking for a dog is the one most will come back to and word travels fast. Other than in the heat of a Show which I would never bother the Breeder while they are concentrating on the dog and showing, building a relationship with someone that may be taking one of their pups will come back to them two-fold.
> 
> _*A Breeder that trashed another publicly for what ever reason is at the bottom of the barrel and I would steer clear. They are up to no good and can't be trusted*_.
> ...



I couldn't agree with this statement more. Taking 'private' issues public is a huge no-no, in my opinion.
[/B][/QUOTE]

So true!
[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree! Oh, and I just love Bisou's new siggy. So precious!


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

QUOTE (MyFairLacy @ Feb 10 2010, 10:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884385


> To the OP: I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. I just don't understand exhibitors/breeders badmouthing another to someone they barely know. I haven't spoken with many Maltese breeders, but have met and gotten to know several Yorkie exhibitors/breeders and heard about many more. Unfortunately, some of them can just be vicious... I've met a couple that did nothing but badmouth other breeders and their dogs, give another a hug and then call them a bitch as soon as they walked off, told me how they hated another breeder and then got online and posted a congrats thread to that breeder they hate and said how good of friends they were. I just really can't stand insincere people... I don't expect all exhibitors to like each other but they should at least be able to be civil and not bad-mouth each other to everyone else. Anyway, not everyone is like that...I've also met some very honest, nice, sincere exhibitors/breeders.
> 
> There was actually a Yorkie breeder that I thought I would probably buy from when I get my next yorkie...but then I found out that she's very very rude to other exhibitors and will bad-mouth them to their face and behind their back. And I just don't like that...I will not buy a puppy from someone who is rude and unsportsmanlike to others. There are breeders out there that are classy and sincere people, and I'll choose to buy from them.
> 
> ...





> Sorry you had that type of experience.
> 
> I don't know how it is with other breeds, but I had less-than-gracious treatment by one Malt breeder when I was searching for a puppy.
> 
> ...


*
Yeah...I've thought the exact same thing. Sometimes it seriously sounds like people are tossing around brand/designer names with their dogs..."I have a ....." instead of "my dog's breeder is" or "I got my dog from".*
[/B][/QUOTE]

Sadly it does seem to be getting that way, doesn't it. That's why I just LOVE the threads mentioning other fabulous, however less known breeders. Don't know if anyone else has thought of it too but some of the recent pics from these lesser known breeders have shown amazingly stunning Malts. 

QUOTE (janettandamber @ Feb 11 2010, 12:39 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884422


> :Waiting:[/B]


  Oh I'll have to remember that one if there are ever any future heated threads...to lighten the mood. Not that this one is heated by any means....just very interesting.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

In the course of my puppy search, 

1. Did other breeders I called try to make snide remarks about Casanova's breeder? In the words of Tyler's Mom quoting Tina Fey impersonating Sarah Palin, "You Betcha!" :HistericalSmiley: 

2. Did they make me concerned about Casanova's breeder? NO, because I cut them off before they had much of a chance.

3. Do I care what they think about Casanova's breeder? NO, because I know Bonnie's dogs much better than they possibly could. They don't have the pleasure of owning one of Bonnie's dogs, and they haven't met as many of Bonnie's dogs as I have. And I couldn't be happier with my Casanova. 

4. Would I not deal with a breeder who talked bad about my breeder? Depends, if they took the hint and stopped talking bad, then I wouldn't hold it against them. Alot of people in this world (breeders included) like to gossip-- it's not great, but it's not a heinous crime. If they won't take the hint--and that hasn't happened yet....then, well, that would seem a little dysfunctional :wacko1: , and I wouldn't want to deal with a dysfunctional person. Much like Andrea wouldn't give money to a jerk.

On the whole, however, my experiences with breeders in the US have been very positive. People have taken the time to educate me for hours on the phone, even though they did not have what I was looking for at the time. I had one breeder offer to give me his puppy that was owed to him from another breeder's litter. :heart: And one breeder I became so friendly with that after I found out she had a tragedy occur in her family, I continued to check up on her every week to make sure that she was doing okay. 

BTW, breeders DEFINITELY talk to pet owners about other breeders. I had one "top" breeder A tell me extremely bad things about another "top" breeder B. Which is not unexpected, except breeder B told me she was "best friends" with breeder A. Breeders C, D, and E have also told me that breeders A and B were best friends. It happens! I don't say anything and just listen and change the subject when I can.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Sophia, good post.

That is exactly why I am good friends with Janet, Nikki's breeder. 

She has never said one bad word about any other breeder, and has always been gracious, kind, and polite with me. She has never bragged about her dogs, or compared them to others. Nikki's genetics are excellent, but Janet didn't really mention that to me as a selling point, and frankly, I was more interested in Nikki herself, not who her great grandfather is. When I told Janet that Nikki had MVD, she cried along with me on the phone. (At that time I didn't know that Nikki would be just fine.) Since day 1 of meeting Janet, we have remained good friends. We've had some differences of opinions on a few minor things, but above all, Janet is a good person who adores her dogs and wants the very best for them. Breeders like Janet are just as valuable and vital to the Maltese breeding community as all the "top tier" breeders out there that everyone talks about all the time. 

I would not deal with a breeder who bad-mouthed other breeders. I would not deal with a breeder who tried to set themselves above all others, no matter how many titles their dogs held. If I were buying a dog to show, maybe I'd feel differently about all this fuss about titles etc. but I'm in this game for the companionship of a purebred Malt. Period.


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

During my puppy search, I only encountered ONE "breeder" (in quotations b/c it is arguable) who talked badly about all the breeders in the East Coast, with one exception (blessing in disguise?) That exception was Chrisman...whom I ended up visiting afterwards. All the other breeders I contacted never said anything negative about other breeders. Granted, all the breeders I contacted were in the same tier and had used each other's dogs in their breeding program. 

I had a wonderful meeting w/ Chris and never did he talk badly about any other breeders to me. He spent most of the time talking to my DH and I about his life, his dogs, and asking us about our lives. He did ask me what other breeders I visited/contacted and he spoke *positively *about them. 

Curiously enough, AFTER I got Mia, I did get PMs from other Malt owners who had alot of bad stuff they wanted to tell me about Chrisman. So, the whole gossip ring runs all around.....Pet owners talk badly about Breeders too.


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## marisag (Jan 18, 2010)

Hi again. I just wanted to let you all that I have been touched your responses. It is gratifying and encouraging to realize that there are so many people out there who truly understand what I've been so upset about. You guys have been tremendous and I have appreciated each and every one of your messages. Courtesy and kindness to each other should be the rule and not the exception. Thanks for restoring my faith in the basic goodness of people. I will continue to read with interest all of your posts on the wide ranging topics that are presented on this forum each day. I've never seen a more active or supportive forum.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

QUOTE (1malt4me @ Feb 10 2010, 01:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884255


> QUOTE





> I think you make a good point about breeders needing to establish a good relationship with the people who may acquire a pet from them, but frankly, some of the people I know in the dog world are not "people-people." But they are "dog-people" and that is more important to me.[/B]


I don't see a reason why you couldn't be both. people-people and dog-people and even if you are dog-people I don't see why you can't be polite to others and most importantly honorable in your dealings and not say negative things about someone else's dogs. This is a matter of a breeder attacking another breeder for their own reasons. The rudeness to people is definitely there as a side point, but making remarks about someone else's dog should be a NO NO. That is not professional.

*Dee
*[/B][/QUOTE]


Although I feel like I could have written this reply, of course I didn't and what I really got out of this thread was--Holy Cow! there is another *DEE* here!  
So Hi to Dorothy!
Dee


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## jenniferhope423 (Jun 25, 2007)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Feb 11 2010, 09:21 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884494


> Sophia, good post.
> 
> That is exactly why I am good friends with Janet, Nikki's breeder.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with you. Janet has been so very nice and helpful and I could have never dreamed of a better puppy that fit right in with my family. We have emailed and talked on the phone back and forth before I got Sophie and she has called to check in to see how she is doing. I have sent her pictures and plan to remain in touch with her and send updates on how Sophie is doing. She never had a bad thing to say about anyone and I couldn't be more pleased with my new baby!


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## mfa (Oct 5, 2009)

QUOTE (janettandamber @ Feb 11 2010, 12:39 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884422


> :Waiting:[/B]




lol, funny post!


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## setell (Oct 10, 2009)

I don't know what to say now....for those that say that asking if you've got puppies available and how much right off the bat is not "nice" enough than I got nothing else to say. I do ask that right at the beginning of the conversation. If the breeder say they got no puppies than I ask what their average prices (range is good enough) for the puppies to see if I can short list them if I wait for their next litter. After that I politely thank them for their time and move onto the next breeder. One breeder I called roughly at 6-7pm gave me a SUPER long long speech how breeders in my area were bad and not good blah blah. Honestly at the time I didn't know why I didn't hang up on her as when she told me her prices I knew she wasn't my breeder and had no intention to continue listening to her speech on my bad local breeders and what she thought of puppy mills. It wasn't till I came to this site that I found out she is one of the top breeders in Canada...funny how I found her via google!


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (setell @ Feb 19 2010, 12:25 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887617


> I don't know what to say now....for those that say that asking if you've got puppies available and how much right off the bat is not "nice" enough than I got nothing else to say. I do ask that right at the beginning of the conversation. If the breeder say they got no puppies than I ask what their average prices (range is good enough) for the puppies to see if I can short list them if I wait for their next litter. After that I politely thank them for their time and move onto the next breeder. One breeder I called roughly at 6-7pm gave me a SUPER long long speech how breeders in my area were bad and not good blah blah. Honestly at the time I didn't know why I didn't hang up on her as when she told me her prices I knew she wasn't my breeder and had no intention to continue listening to her speech on my bad local breeders and what she thought of puppy mills. It wasn't till I came to this site that I found out she is one of the top breeders in Canada...funny how I found her via google![/B]


Believe it or not, that breeder might have been trying to be helpful and trying to make sure you didn't wind up with a poorly bred maltese. If someone local calls me and I don't have any puppies, I do try to tell them that I am the only show breeder in our area and give them the website for the AMA. That is not me bad mouthing other local breeders, that is just a fact. 

BUT if someone calls me before 8am or after 9pm, i may not be at my most receptive, so i think that is where the 'nice' thing came in. i don't think there is anything wrong at all with those questions asked right off the bat, just in combination with inconsiderate phone etiquette that is becomes a little much to take.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

I'm really sorry you had to go through this. :shocked: 

When I was looking last year, Josy was so very nice and helpful too.

Having a good relationship with your breeder is so important. I'm sure you made the perfect choice in choosing her


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## mi_ku_5 (Jun 2, 2008)

QUOTE (setell @ Feb 19 2010, 12:25 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887617


> I don't know what to say now....for those that say that asking if you've got puppies available and how much right off the bat is not "nice" enough than I got nothing else to say. I do ask that right at the beginning of the conversation. If the breeder say they got no puppies than I ask what their average prices (range is good enough) for the puppies to see if I can short list them if I wait for their next litter. *After that I politely thank them for their time and move onto the next breeder. *One breeder I called roughly at 6-7pm gave me a SUPER long long speech how breeders in my area were bad and not good blah blah. Honestly at the time I didn't know why I didn't hang up on her as when she told me her prices I knew she wasn't my breeder and had no intention to continue listening to her speech on my bad local breeders and what she thought of puppy mills. It wasn't till I came to this site that I found out she is one of the top breeders in Canada...funny how I found her via google![/B]


You are passing up a golden opportunity! Just b/c someone doens't have puppies right now, doesn't mean the conversation should end. If they are willing to recommend other breeders or talk to you about the breed, you should take advantage. I found the breeder I'm getting my next pup from through a breeder that didn't have any pups or any plans for a litter in the near future. She gave me another breeders phone number (one who doesn't advertise much online or maintain a website) and I'm thrilled w/ her. So much so that I'm willing to wait many months for the right puppy. The first breeder (the one w/o any pups) also invited me to her house, let me meet her dogs (who are related to the 2nd breeders dam) and spent hours showing me pics of show wins and talking to me about Poodles. You have no idea what you are missing out on.


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## KAG (Jun 1, 2006)

QUOTE (mi_ku_5 @ Feb 22 2010, 11:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=889164


> QUOTE (setell @ Feb 19 2010, 12:25 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887617





> I don't know what to say now....for those that say that asking if you've got puppies available and how much right off the bat is not "nice" enough than I got nothing else to say. I do ask that right at the beginning of the conversation. If the breeder say they got no puppies than I ask what their average prices (range is good enough) for the puppies to see if I can short list them if I wait for their next litter. *After that I politely thank them for their time and move onto the next breeder. *One breeder I called roughly at 6-7pm gave me a SUPER long long speech how breeders in my area were bad and not good blah blah. Honestly at the time I didn't know why I didn't hang up on her as when she told me her prices I knew she wasn't my breeder and had no intention to continue listening to her speech on my bad local breeders and what she thought of puppy mills. It wasn't till I came to this site that I found out she is one of the top breeders in Canada...funny how I found her via google![/B]


You are passing up a golden opportunity! Just b/c someone doens't have puppies right now, doesn't mean the conversation should end. If they are willing to recommend other breeders or talk to you about the breed, you should take advantage. I found the breeder I'm getting my next pup from through a breeder that didn't have any pups or any plans for a litter in the near future. She gave me another breeders phone number (one who doesn't advertise much online or maintain a website) and I'm thrilled w/ her. So much so that I'm willing to wait many months for the right puppy. The first breeder (the one w/o any pups) also invited me to her house, let me meet her dogs (who are related to the 2nd breeders dam) and spent hours showing me pics of show wins and talking to me about Poodles. You have no idea what you are missing out on.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Excellent advice.
xoxoxoxo


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (KAG @ Feb 23 2010, 12:10 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=889186


> QUOTE (mi_ku_5 @ Feb 22 2010, 11:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=889164





> QUOTE (setell @ Feb 19 2010, 12:25 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887617





> I don't know what to say now....for those that say that asking if you've got puppies available and how much right off the bat is not "nice" enough than I got nothing else to say. I do ask that right at the beginning of the conversation. If the breeder say they got no puppies than I ask what their average prices (range is good enough) for the puppies to see if I can short list them if I wait for their next litter. *After that I politely thank them for their time and move onto the next breeder. *[/B]


You are passing up a golden opportunity! Just b/c someone doens't have puppies right now, doesn't mean the conversation should end. If they are willing to recommend other breeders or talk to you about the breed, you should take advantage. I found the breeder I'm getting my next pup from through a breeder that didn't have any pups or any plans for a litter in the near future. She gave me another breeders phone number (one who doesn't advertise much online or maintain a website) and I'm thrilled w/ her. So much so that I'm willing to wait many months for the right puppy. The first breeder (the one w/o any pups) also invited me to her house, let me meet her dogs (who are related to the 2nd breeders dam) and spent hours showing me pics of show wins and talking to me about Poodles. You have no idea what you are missing out on.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Excellent advice.
xoxoxoxo
[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree--:goodpost: 

I just want to add that I think finding a great breeder should not be based on who has "available puppies" at any given time. Frankly, having puppies available with too much frequency/regularity might be a bit of a red flag for me. They shouldn't have litters available at all times. So if you happen to call a breeder and they do not have a puppy available, but can either keep in touch with you when they do, or refer you to someone they know who might have pups that is well worth the trouble of talking to them further. 

I looked back at Mary's post because this quoted Post seems to be responding to that: 
QUOTE


> My idea of perfect is someone who calls and starts with "Hi, we've done a lot of research about the breed, think we'd like to add a Maltese to our family, and have some questions." That sort of opening gives both the caller and me the opportunity to learn about each other. I almost always have to tell people that I don't have anything available but I'm always happy to talk about this wonderful breed, answer questions and help send the person in the right direction to find the puppy of their dreams. It's the person who wants no conversation beyond gender, price & availability that I have concerns with.[/B]


And I also think this really is good advice. I know for myself, again with the rescue calls, when people were only concerned with *SIZE*, price, availability at the moment, gender; the ones who treated it all like they were asking about a "product off the shelf," I was less enthusiastic about calling those people back or putting them on my list for dogs that might have come into rescue. It was the ones that were interested in the breed, the dogs, the temperments asked relavant and interesting questions that were the first ones I would call back when I got a "special" rescue in my house.


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## setell (Oct 10, 2009)

I don't know how others do it but as much as I want to get a puppy from a top breeder, price is a huge deciding factor for me. I start my list off with asking basic questions first than if I want more info I will contact them again. For me I think it's a bit silly to ask all these questions about temperment, environment etc. THEN find out the puppy is too expensive. Maybe I am very business orientated but I find that to be a waste of both our times if there is no possiblity of a transaction to occur.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

QUOTE (setell @ Feb 24 2010, 11:20 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=889769


> I don't know how others do it but as much as I want to get a puppy from a top breeder, price is a huge deciding factor for me. I start my list off with asking basic questions first than if I want more info I will contact them again. For me I think it's a bit silly to ask all these questions about temperment, environment etc. THEN find out the puppy is too expensive. Maybe I am very business orientated but I find that to be a waste of both our times if there is no possiblity of a transaction to occur.[/B]


I don't think it is silly at all. It serves several purposes, at least for those who are truly interested in the breed. Discussing things other than price gives the buyer an opportunity to familiarize herself with the different Maltese breeders. It establishes the fact that the seller is interested in matching their home to a suitable puppy. If the puppy is too expensive, fine, but in the process the buyer might have learned something firsthand about that particular breeder, even if they don't buy anything from them. 

IMO most good show breeders do not approach selling puppies like they are selling a product. They are selling a companion animal that they have had in their home since its birth, that they are unable to show for whatever reason. They want to know whether the prospective buyer will be the right person and have the right home for each individual puppy. If I were them, I'd feel the same way. It's quite a different philosophy than making a typical business transaction.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

QUOTE (setell @ Feb 24 2010, 11:20 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=889769


> I don't know how others do it but as much as I want to get a puppy from a top breeder, price is a huge deciding factor for me. I start my list off with asking basic questions first than if I want more info I will contact them again. For me I think it's a bit silly to ask all these questions about temperment, environment etc. THEN find out the puppy is too expensive. Maybe I am very business orientated but I find that to be a waste of both our times if there is no possiblity of a transaction to occur.[/B]



I'm not in the business of selling puppies so I don't see a telephone inquiry as a potential business transaction where both buyer and seller have a "top 3 question list" and either do a deal or move on. I wonder how receptive a person on the other end of the line would be if my questions were: (1) $X in cash?; (2) means of transportation to come get the puppy?; and (3) how soon can you be here?

MaryH


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## setell (Oct 10, 2009)

QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 25 2010, 12:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=890097


> I'm not in the business of selling puppies so I don't see a telephone inquiry as a potential business transaction where both buyer and seller have a "top 3 question list" and either do a deal or move on. I wonder how receptive a person on the other end of the line would be if my questions were: (1) $X in cash?; (2) means of transportation to come get the puppy?; and (3) how soon can you be here?
> 
> MaryH[/B]


If these were the ONLY questions the buyer asked then I would be weary too but honestly regardless if you're in the business to sell puppies or not but at the end of the day the buyer has to be able to afford your puppies too. I just find it more efficient to know what the breeder charges so I know which breeders I should talk to more as I will know if I can or cannot afford his/her puppies. For example, no matter how amazing the breeder is or how amazing the puppy is I will not be able to afford the puppy if it's going to cost me 10k. You can be the best thing since the internet but I can't afford a 10k puppy. I just don't see how spending 30min to 1hr on the phone with the breeder is efficient when in the end you will not be able to afford the puppy and what you have learned about the breeder won't be maximized.

I love my pets and they mean the world to me but I like using my rational thinking vs emotional thinking when deciding where to buy my puppy. Breeders may feel like they aren't selling their puppies but I don't see how that rationale works. I pay you cash/money and you give me a puppy aka a product therefore you are a seller. It doesn't matter if you don't want to consider yourself a seller as you are one. Now you can argue you're a non-profit seller vs a for-profit seller but nonetheless you're a seller of a good.


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Feb 25 2010, 01:23 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=889791


> QUOTE (setell @ Feb 24 2010, 11:20 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=889769





> I don't know how others do it but as much as I want to get a puppy from a top breeder, price is a huge deciding factor for me. I start my list off with asking basic questions first than if I want more info I will contact them again. For me I think it's a bit silly to ask all these questions about temperment, environment etc. THEN find out the puppy is too expensive. Maybe I am very business orientated but I find that to be a waste of both our times if there is no possiblity of a transaction to occur.[/B]


I don't think it is silly at all. It serves several purposes, at least for those who are truly interested in the breed. Discussing things other than price gives the buyer an opportunity to familiarize herself with the different Maltese breeders. It establishes the fact that the seller is interested in matching their home to a suitable puppy. If the puppy is too expensive, fine, but in the process the buyer might have learned something firsthand about that particular breeder, even if they don't buy anything from them. 

IMO most good show breeders do not approach selling puppies like they are selling a product. They are selling a companion animal that they have had in their home since its birth, that they are unable to show for whatever reason. They want to know whether the prospective buyer will be the right person and have the right home for each individual puppy. If I were them, I'd feel the same way. It's quite a different philosophy than making a typical business transaction.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, I completely agree with Suzan. Also, even if that particular breeder's prices are out of range, they could steer you towards another reputable breeder or rescue who would be a better fit- once they got to know you.

QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 25 2010, 01:45 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=890097


> QUOTE (setell @ Feb 24 2010, 11:20 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=889769





> I don't know how others do it but as much as I want to get a puppy from a top breeder, price is a huge deciding factor for me. I start my list off with asking basic questions first than if I want more info I will contact them again. For me I think it's a bit silly to ask all these questions about temperment, environment etc. THEN find out the puppy is too expensive. Maybe I am very business orientated but I find that to be a waste of both our times if there is no possiblity of a transaction to occur.[/B]



I'm not in the business of selling puppies so I don't see a telephone inquiry as a potential business transaction where both buyer and seller have a "top 3 question list" and either do a deal or move on. * I wonder how receptive a person on the other end of the line would be if my questions were: (1) $X in cash?; (2) means of transportation to come get the puppy?; and (3) how soon can you be here*?

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]

Exactly. If a breeder, I approached, responded to me like this, it would be a Huge red flag to me, and wouldn't consider them reputable. JMO.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I think this is the point. MOST reputable show breeders are not in the business of selling pups. Because they have some
from time to time doesn't mean they are sales people or have all the time in the world to chat on the phone with someone
who may not even be interested in that breeder's pup. I think we're being a little hard on them. Sometimes breeders will
get a dozen calls in one day. If the breeder spent an hour talking to each one, who would take care of her family and/or
dogs? Please, breeders are people too. Sometimes they have time to chat and sometimes they are having a bad day
or on the way to the vet or crying over a lost newborn pup. I hope no one will be quick to judge a phone call.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (setell @ Feb 25 2010, 01:15 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=890099


> If these were the ONLY questions the buyer asked then I would be weary too but honestly regardless if you're in the business to sell puppies or not but at the end of the day the buyer has to be able to afford your puppies too. I just find it more efficient to know what the breeder charges so I know which breeders I should talk to more as I will know if I can or cannot afford his/her puppies. For example, no matter how amazing the breeder is or how amazing the puppy is I will not be able to afford the puppy if it's going to cost me 10k. You can be the best thing since the internet but I can't afford a 10k puppy. I just don't see how spending 30min to 1hr on the phone with the breeder is efficient when in the end you will not be able to afford the puppy and what you have learned about the breeder won't be maximized.
> 
> I love my pets and they mean the world to me but I like using my rational thinking vs emotional thinking when deciding where to buy my puppy. *Breeders may feel like they aren't selling their puppies but I don't see how that rationale works. I pay you cash/money and you give me a puppy aka a product therefore you are a seller.* It doesn't matter if you don't want to consider yourself a seller as you are one. Now you can argue you're a non-profit seller vs a for-profit seller but nonetheless you're a seller of a good.[/B]


This way of thinking is just so frustrating to me. :smstarz: If you adopt a child and you pay the adoption agency for costs associated with that would you consider them to be selling a product? This is not the same as buying just any other product. This is not the same as shopping for any other "item." It just isn't. These are living creatures that are going to be part of your family as a member of your family. 

The mindset of treating it like a "sales-transaction" is what leads people to BYBs and Brokers who have the oh so convienent "credit-card" payment system on their websites. If people take the time to listen to the breeders and consider why the prices are charged the way they are (and often they are not close to the costs that go into doing things the right way) then rather than impulse buying the cheaper dog, they may find that in fact it is worth saving a bit more for a puppy from a breeder who really does care about breeding for the "right" reasons and not to make puppy sales. 

I am certainly not saying you should have to pay 10 grand for a dog. But is is a false economy to buy a dog for under $1000 from some GREEDER selling the dog without pedigrees, papers, or health guarantees versus buying a dog from a show home where the dogs are raised with love and attention and are not being sold for profit, but may be being sold for 2x that much to help defray the costs of things like bial acid tests, pre-post-natal vet vists, show fees (and so on). Taking the time to learn some of this is what helps save people from ending up with dogs from folks who only care about trying to profit from selling. 

QUOTE (Cosy @ Feb 25 2010, 01:30 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=890102


> I think this is the point. *MOST reputable show breeders are not in the business of selling pups. Because they have some
> from time to time doesn't mean they are sales people *or have all the time in the world to chat on the phone with someone
> who may not even be interested in that breeder's pup. I think we're being a little hard on them. Sometimes breeders will
> get a dozen calls in one day. If the breeder spent an hour talking to each one, who would take care of her family and/or
> ...


 :goodpost: 
Well said, Brit.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

QUOTE (setell @ Feb 25 2010, 01:15 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=890099


> QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 25 2010, 12:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=890097





> I'm not in the business of selling puppies so I don't see a telephone inquiry as a potential business transaction where both buyer and seller have a "top 3 question list" and either do a deal or move on. I wonder how receptive a person on the other end of the line would be if my questions were: (1) $X in cash?; (2) means of transportation to come get the puppy?; and (3) how soon can you be here?
> 
> MaryH[/B]


If these were the ONLY questions the buyer asked then I would be weary too but honestly regardless if you're in the business to sell puppies or not but at the end of the day the buyer has to be able to afford your puppies too. I just find it more efficient to know what the breeder charges so I know which breeders I should talk to more as I will know if I can or cannot afford his/her puppies. For example, no matter how amazing the breeder is or how amazing the puppy is I will not be able to afford the puppy if it's going to cost me 10k. You can be the best thing since the internet but I can't afford a 10k puppy. I just don't see how spending 30min to 1hr on the phone with the breeder is efficient when in the end you will not be able to afford the puppy and what you have learned about the breeder won't be maximized.

I love my pets and they mean the world to me but I like using my rational thinking vs emotional thinking when deciding where to buy my puppy. Breeders may feel like they aren't selling their puppies but I don't see how that rationale works. I pay you cash/money and you give me a puppy aka a product therefore you are a seller. It doesn't matter if you don't want to consider yourself a seller as you are one. Now you can argue you're a non-profit seller vs a for-profit seller but nonetheless you're a seller of a good.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I think you're missing the point. IF you want to look at purchasing a puppy like this (which I do not agree with and frankly feel sorry for any potential breeder you may be contacting while still thinking in this line), then you will want to be an informed consumer. Informed consumers do tons of research before purchasing. For example, I'm not in the financial position of being able to purchase a new car every 3 - 4 years. So when I do purchase a car, it is one that is a higher priced car that has passed many years of testing, consumer reports, etc that prove it to have low maintenance costs, and holds up for a very long time. And I have to save for it. If you were an informed consumer, temperament and environment would be huge factors in your educated reasons of where to purchase your puppy. Say you find a great deal on a puppy for $800 vs. one for $1800. But your $800 puppy has genetic health issues since his breeder does not know how to set up a good and healthy breeding program. The amount of $ you pay in future vet bills will cost way more than the price difference of the puppy. Say your $800 puppy was not bred for temperament or was sold too early so he did not learn proper puppy manners from his litter mates or his mommy and you have an out of control, aggressive, fearful reactive dog. Then you will have many $ invested in training not to mention not the type of puppy you really wanted and can easily take with you wherever you want. An informed consumer most often finds that the product they really want, that will save them $ in the long run, bring them the most enjoyment, etc may be one that they can not afford at the moment but then gives them the ability to plan and save for a future purchase. When you say you are using your rationale thinking vs. emotional thinking, I have to ask if maybe that is not an accurate statement. It sounds to me more like you are very much thinking emotionally and really wanting to make an 'impulse purchase'. By thinking rationally vs emotionally, you know this will take time and most often budgeting. I just want to add that there are some reputable show breeders who do have a healthy breeding program, are very knowledgeable, that have very reasonably priced puppies. I'm not a fan of purchasing a puppy for an outlandishly high price just for the 'name' of the breeder. 

All of these factors, and the fact that some very busy breeders are willing to take time to talk with you and help to give you much needed info for a future purchase, regardless if you will be purchasing a puppy from them, will help you to make a wise investment and a savvy business decision. Many of us would LOVE to happen to catch a breeder at that 'perfect' time where she is willing to chat with us about this wonderful breed and help teach us things.

Now pardon me for being just a bit 'humanly emotional' here and taking time to make sure that this is something you have thought about. But I really am fearful for any future puppy you purchase because it feels to me that a puppy for you will not be part of your family. It sounds to me that when having a puppy no longer makes sense financially or for your lifestyle, that puppy will no longer be with you. I could really me misreading you since it's hard to really make known in a thread your true feelings and intent. But if you came across this way in an email or phone call to me about a foster dog I had, I would not put your application at the top of the list of potential future adopters. A Maltese has a very long life span and you are committing to having one as part of your family for possibly 16 plus years. When you think of it that way, don't you want to do whatever humanly possible to ensure the right temperament and health and even size for your family? There are many things you need to do to care for a Malt that is on the smaller end of the standard. So for your lifestyle perhaps one that is on the larger end of the standard is the better fit. These are things a good breeder will want to take time to find out. Any information a good breeder is wanting to share with you will only benefit you in any future purchase of a puppy.

I also want to mention that for me personally when looking at breeders, I want to know how many dogs they have in their breeding program, where are the dogs kept during the day, do they have one on one time for play and affection with the breeder, how often they have litters, how many times do their bitches have a litter and at what age do they retire them. I want to know what they do with their retirees. I want to know these things because these are beautiful, loving, trusting, living creatures and I want to be assured that I am in no way contributing to the suffering of these lovely and gentle creatures by purchasing from a backyard breeder or a puppymill, or even a show breeder with questionable breeding practices.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

QUOTE (setell @ Feb 25 2010, 01:15 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=890099


> QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 25 2010, 12:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=890097





> I'm not in the business of selling puppies so I don't see a telephone inquiry as a potential business transaction where both buyer and seller have a "top 3 question list" and either do a deal or move on. I wonder how receptive a person on the other end of the line would be if my questions were: (1) $X in cash?; (2) means of transportation to come get the puppy?; and (3) how soon can you be here?
> 
> MaryH[/B]


If these were the ONLY questions the buyer asked then I would be weary too but honestly regardless if you're in the business to sell puppies or not but at the end of the day the buyer has to be able to afford your puppies too. I just find it more efficient to know what the breeder charges so I know which breeders I should talk to more as I will know if I can or cannot afford his/her puppies. For example, no matter how amazing the breeder is or how amazing the puppy is I will not be able to afford the puppy if it's going to cost me 10k. You can be the best thing since the internet but I can't afford a 10k puppy. I just don't see how spending 30min to 1hr on the phone with the breeder is efficient when in the end you will not be able to afford the puppy and what you have learned about the breeder won't be maximized.

I love my pets and they mean the world to me but I like using my rational thinking vs emotional thinking when deciding where to buy my puppy. Breeders may feel like they aren't selling their puppies but I don't see how that rationale works. I pay you cash/money and you give me a puppy aka a product therefore you are a seller. It doesn't matter if you don't want to consider yourself a seller as you are one. Now you can argue you're a non-profit seller vs a for-profit seller but nonetheless you're a seller of a good.
[/B][/QUOTE]

You've received all kinds of good advice in this thread and can choose to take it or leave it. Maybe I've not spelled out my feeling in a way that can be understood easily so I'll try it again and differently. Because breeding and selling puppies is not my business (nor that of the breeders who I know and respect) I don't take a business approach when making my decisions on where I place a puppy and, consequently, price is not the determining factor. I could have a situation where 3 people are interested in 2 available puppies; 2 of those people can afford what I'm asking, the 3rd is clearly not comfortable with the cost but has everything else I am looking for one of the two available puppies. Guess what??? That person is getting a puppy at a price that he/she feels more comfortable with because the other things that this person can provide to my puppy for its lifetime are PRICELESS. The only way I was able to make the decision was because this person took the time to ask for information, inquire about my dogs, make the conversation about more than just a business transaction involving money.

MaryH


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## CeeCee's Mom (Sep 14, 2006)

QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 25 2010, 11:21 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=890191


> QUOTE (setell @ Feb 25 2010, 01:15 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=890099





> QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 25 2010, 12:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=890097





> I'm not in the business of selling puppies so I don't see a telephone inquiry as a potential business transaction where both buyer and seller have a "top 3 question list" and either do a deal or move on. I wonder how receptive a person on the other end of the line would be if my questions were: (1) $X in cash?; (2) means of transportation to come get the puppy?; and (3) how soon can you be here?
> 
> MaryH[/B]


If these were the ONLY questions the buyer asked then I would be weary too but honestly regardless if you're in the business to sell puppies or not but at the end of the day the buyer has to be able to afford your puppies too. I just find it more efficient to know what the breeder charges so I know which breeders I should talk to more as I will know if I can or cannot afford his/her puppies. For example, no matter how amazing the breeder is or how amazing the puppy is I will not be able to afford the puppy if it's going to cost me 10k. You can be the best thing since the internet but I can't afford a 10k puppy. I just don't see how spending 30min to 1hr on the phone with the breeder is efficient when in the end you will not be able to afford the puppy and what you have learned about the breeder won't be maximized.

I love my pets and they mean the world to me but I like using my rational thinking vs emotional thinking when deciding where to buy my puppy. Breeders may feel like they aren't selling their puppies but I don't see how that rationale works. I pay you cash/money and you give me a puppy aka a product therefore you are a seller. It doesn't matter if you don't want to consider yourself a seller as you are one. Now you can argue you're a non-profit seller vs a for-profit seller but nonetheless you're a seller of a good.
[/B][/QUOTE]

You've received all kinds of good advice in this thread and can choose to take it or leave it. Maybe I've not spelled out my feeling in a way that can be understood easily so I'll try it again and differently. Because breeding and selling puppies is not my business (nor that of the breeders who I know and respect) I don't take a business approach when making my decisions on where I place a puppy and, consequently, price is not the determining factor. I could have a situation where 3 people are interested in 2 available puppies; 2 of those people can afford what I'm asking, the 3rd is clearly not comfortable with the cost but has everything else I am looking for one of the two available puppies. Guess what??? That person is getting a puppy at a price that he/she feels more comfortable with because the other things that this person can provide to my puppy for its lifetime are PRICELESS. The only way I was able to make the decision was because this person took the time to ask for information, inquire about my dogs, make the conversation about more than just a business transaction involving money.

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]

That is exactly how it should be!!! I too would pick the one that cares and loves my baby more than anything even though they somehow let you know the price was above what they could afford. To me, if I were a breeder, which I am not, I would make it about the little soul that was inside that little baby malt. That would too be the most important thing to me too!!!


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

QUOTE (setell @ Feb 25 2010, 01:15 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=890099


> * I just don't see how spending 30min to 1hr on the phone with the breeder is efficient when in the end you will not be able to afford the puppy and what you have learned about the breeder won't be maximized.
> *
> I love my pets and they mean the world to me but I like using my rational thinking vs emotional thinking when deciding where to buy my puppy. Breeders may feel like they aren't selling their puppies but I don't see how that rationale works. I pay you cash/money and you give me a puppy aka a product therefore you are a seller. It doesn't matter if you don't want to consider yourself a seller as you are one. Now you can argue you're a non-profit seller vs a for-profit seller but nonetheless you're a seller of a good.[/B]


You can still maximize the knowledge you gain from speaking with a reputable breeder, even if you do not purchase his/her puppy. In 30 min to 1 hr conversation, you probably can obtain the KEY points of how to judge a healthy, well socialized pup, which otherwise would take you much longer to learn on your own. I think that is quite efficient, and it is free knowledge! If that does not go off the charts in cost/benefit analysis, I don't know what will! :biggrin: Knowledge of the breed is valuable and you can still apply it to raising your own pup, or use it in conversation with other breeders. Knowledge is power and the more you learn, the better.  

Are you an attorney? hehe..for some reason, your last paragraph reminds me of my UCC class in law school..lol. You sounds like a pragmatic person, as am I. I agree that legally, pups are goods and sellers are, well..sellers. But, I think you are over looking a key aspect, which is that breeders are not the typical merchants, *despite* the sell/purchase mechanism under which they all operate. There are a lot of behind the scene blood, sweat and tears stories when it comes to raising and showing Maltese. Therefore, there is much emotional attachment to each pup. Breeders will naturally be concerned for the welfare of their pups, hence why they want to understand the purchaser in order to ensure a good fit.

My Mia's breeder grilled me like crazy on our first phone conversation. I think I am a tough cookie but I was still quite shocked. lol. I felt like I was on cross examination!! I engaged in multiple conversations then in person visits with him, before I bought Mia. If I had to count the hours, it probably would be quite substantial..But, in hindsight, I know he did it out of love for Mia and it was all worth it. 

I wish you the best of luck in your puppy search!!


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

Most of us on this forum know what the average price for Maltese puppies are for both male and female. Therefor, when I contact any breeder I automatically assume a female puppy will probably be $2500-$3500. If the price happens to be less then great...if more, well..I'll consider if I ant to pay that later on. IDK..price just wouldn't be one of my first questions personally, especially since I know what pet maltese typically cost from show breeders.


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