# Are Maltese Bichons?



## Mindi's mom (Aug 24, 2010)

Sorry, if this is a really dumb question...
I get asked if Mindi is a Bichon and I always reply, " no, a maltese." I was reading on wikipedia and now I am confused. Maltese are a type of Bichon? And if so, how should I answer when people ask if she is a Bichon? 

Bichon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Maltese (dog) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

maltese are in the bichon family - as are bichon frise, cotton de tuler, havanese and some more


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

I've never heard that they are in the Bichon family, but perhaps they are.

Regardless, Maltese & Bichon Frise are completely separate AKC recognized breeds and are not the same.


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

LJSquishy said:


> I've never heard that they are in the Bichon family, but perhaps they are.
> 
> Regardless, Maltese & Bichon Frise are completely separate AKC recognized breeds and are not the same.


under the FCI maltese are in group 9 and within group 9 they are in bichon breeds. 



> 1.1 Bichons
> 1. Central Mediterranean Region (Italy)
> Maltese (65)
> 27/11/89	FR/EN/DE/SP
> ...


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## Mindi's mom (Aug 24, 2010)

Thanks!


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

I've never heard of that before.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I've never heard of it either. A Maltese is a Maltese.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

In french Maltese are called Bichon Maltais. As I understand it Bichon is a way of saying small/cute dog. So of course Maltese are small cute dogs. This should not be confused with claiming that a Maltese is a type of Bichon Frise. Though I believe based on the histories I have read that Maltese were the earlier of the two types and Bichon Frise dogs were developed from the historic Maltese dogs. So the answer is, it depends on what you mean when you say are Maltese Bichons. Yes, they are small and cute and in some languages they have the name Bichon Maltais, but they are not the same breed as a Bichon Frise (though the Frise breed has been influenced by Maltese). 

To me this is like the question are Maltese terriers. English people often refer to the breed as Maltese Terriers (and some terriers were influenced by Maltese) but they are not truly terriers. 

Here in the US, we simply call them Maltese. It is the best description as all the others add confusion.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

"Family" and "Breed" are not the same thing. Maltese, Havanese, Bolognese, Coton de Tulear, Bichon Frisé are all in the same Family (Bichon) but they are all different breeds. My understanding is that the Maltese is called Bichon Maltais in France because he is a part of the Bichon Family.

I just checked the french dictionary to see what the explanation of "bichon" is. 
Bichon - Bichonne : petit chien ou chienne à poil long (small male or female dog with long coat/hair).


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

jane - thanks for bringing this up . I was at a store in France (during my trip) with Snowy and Crystal. A lady approached, had a little chat, petted the malts, went Awwhing and cute talking to them...etc then she looked at me and was like "I also have a bichon":blink:
My response was "these two are Maltese dogs". She smiled and said "yes I know, bichon Maltese". I do know that they are grouped in the bichon family under FCI because I read that when I was doing my first search on the breed when I got Snowy, but it did confuse me at that second when i heard that lady, so I repeated once again to her "there is no bichon in them - they are Maltese" lol the funny part is that we were like going back and forth "bichon Maltese" and "Maltese" for a couple more times :HistericalSmiley: she sure was a nice lady, nevertheless - ended that breed convo with a giggle from both sides and continued petting the malts  I learned that the term bichon maltese is common there. However, they do know that the bichon fries is a different breed than a Maltese.
Kat


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

We must keep in mind that people not familiar with the Maltese do confuse them with the Bichon Frise which (I believe) is more popular. We have quite a few of the Bichon Frises in my neighborhood. I concur that the Bichon is a newer breed. I have been asked that question before, too. opcorn:


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

Bichon Frises are much more popular here in Ireland - when Milo was a puppy everyone thought he was a bichon but now that his hair is long they don't


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

amby said:


> under the FCI maltese are in group 9 and within group 9 they are in bichon breeds.


That's right, Bichon family, not Bichon "breed"--no more than a German Shepard is a wolf.:blush:

They used to "say" Maltese "Terrier" when speaking of the breed. They are not in the terrier family.


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

aprilb said:


> We must keep in mind that people not familiar with the Maltese do confuse them with the Bichon Frise which (I believe) is more popular. We have quite a few of the Bichon Frises in my neighborhood. I concur that the Bichon is a newer breed. I have been asked that question before, too. opcorn:


I gotta agree. 
Actually, I noticed that people who aren't familiar with these breeds will see all white, small, fluffy dogs the same (personally, I see the bichon frise to be far different than a Maltese or bolognese or cotton de tutelar...etc) but some can't really differentiate them. A friend of mine was a big time cat person - when he met my malts and got to know more about how fun, nice, loving, big in personality they are, he started to like the *small white fluffy* dogs. He told me once that his neighbor got a dog who is just like Snowy and Crystal - me being the crazy about the Maltese breed person, I wanted to see the pup. When I did, I was very surprised to see a West highland white terrier pup:w00t: if only my friend payed very little attention, he would notice the huge difference; those ears (of the westie) speak loudly that they aren't a Maltese ears. LoL


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

The reason why Maltese are in the "Bichon" family is that the word "Bichon" means small white lap dog. In France, the Maltese is one of 5 breeds that are considered to be in the Bichon family, and are called "Bichon Maltese" 

So "Bichon" is a word used in France to describe a class of dogs. Bichon is also used for a particular breed, which is "Bichon Frise," which means "curly lap dog." 

Under AKC, the Maltese and the Bichon Frise are two separate breeds. The Maltese is the older breed. The Bichon Frise is thought to have originated from a cross between a Maltese and a Poodle. 

In my experience, unless people are really into identifying dog breeds, they generally will lump dogs of the same color and size together. I've had both a Maltese and a Bichon Frise, and both are great dogs.


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## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

I would like to meet a Bolognese some day. I've only read about and seen pictures of them. Some say they are more "serious". I'm not sure that's what I need--I am serious enough on my own and want to be entertained.


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

mss said:


> I would like to meet a Bolognese some day. I've only read about and seen pictures of them. Some say they are more "serious". I'm not sure that's what I need--I am serious enough on my own and want to be entertained.


I haven't heard that they are serious - really interesting. 

I think that they are adorable:wub: ok, let me be honest and say, all these fluffs are adorable- i love them.


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## Aarianne (Jul 22, 2005)

They're called bichon maltais by french-speaking Quebec show breeders too. To the french, that's just their proper name. They always seem to make the distinction between bichon maltais and bichon frisé though. If an english-speaker would refer to a dog as a bichon, I'm sure 99% of the time they mean a bichon frisé.

Still, calling them bichon maltais kind of makes sense to me. I remember googling "canadian maltese association" way back to see if we had one, and we do! In fact we have many! But they're all for Canadian Maltese people... not for dogs.


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## ParisandRio (Nov 5, 2010)

*MANY differences *

I've been a Bichon Frise mom for over 25 years.. The breed has developed many severe genetic problems since I bought my first one, unfortunately, due to overbreeding and poor breeding. They were the puppy mill/ pet store darlings and highest sellers for most of the 80's and 90's. Now, puppy mills give them away to the country's largest Bichon-specific rescue group. Small Paws.

I live with both elderly and middle aged adult Bichons Frises ( the correct plural) and young adult Maltese. *Overall, my Malts are healthier and hardier than my larger Bichons were at the same ages*. The breeding lines of all are quite sturdy and good. 

I love my Bichons dearly, but at this point and time in their troubled breeding programs, I would be quite afraid to buy a Bichon from the top show/ breeding program in the country, even with the 2 DNA certs which Bichons can have done. I know that this forum is about Maltese, but since the discussion has taken this turn, I have to say that my research shows that the Maltese breed still retains more purity of bloodline that has not been diluted, overbred and filled with fraudulent pedigrees like the possibly more popular Bichon Frise has been. That's the main reason we chose Malts over Bichons Frises for our last 3 fluffs. Their tiny preciousness being the other.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

ParisandRio said:


> I've been a Bichon Frise mom for over 25 years.. The breed has developed many severe genetic problems since I bought my first one, unfortunately, due to overbreeding and poor breeding. They were the puppy mill/ pet store darlings and highest sellers for most of the 80's and 90's. Now, puppy mills give them away to the country's largest Bichon-specific rescue group. Small Paws.
> 
> I live with both elderly and middle aged adult Bichons Frises ( the correct plural) and young adult Maltese. *Overall, my Malts are healthier and hardier than my larger Bichons were at the same ages*. The breeding lines of all are quite sturdy and good.
> 
> I love my Bichons dearly, but at this point and time in their troubled breeding programs, I would be quite afraid to buy a Bichon from the top show/ breeding program in the country, even with the 2 DNA certs which Bichons can have done. I know that this forum is about Maltese, but since the discussion has taken this turn, I have to say that my research shows that the Maltese breed still retains more purity of bloodline that has not been diluted, overbred and filled with fraudulent pedigrees like the possibly more popular Bichon Frise has been. That's the main reason we chose Malts over Bichons Frises for our last 3 fluffs. Their tiny preciousness being the other.


That is heartbreaking. Whenever a breed becomes popular, greeders jump on the bandwagon and ruin their health. 

I've seen that happen with Yorkies. Liver shunts, Legg-Perthes and other serious health issues are rampant in Yorkies now. I always wanted a Yorkie, but I would be too afraid to buy one today.

I hope Maltese never make the that top ten list.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

It's such a shame because Bichons are such wonderful little dogs. I had one for 15 years that I dearly loved. Poor thing was sick her entire life.


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## ParisandRio (Nov 5, 2010)

*I do too, LadysMom*

The Bichon Frise craze with BYB, puppy mills and pet shops hit high peak when J.R. won Westminster. That was in the late 80's I believe. When people saw that they didn't HAVE a potential J.R. living with them, the dogs were literally dumped. 

I have worked with Small Paws Bichon Frise Rescue, and I, too, hope that Maltese stay in their own little niche', beloved by those who know them, and oblivious to puppy millers and other unscrupulous mass producers. The case of JS in TN was unknown to me until this past weekend. I was stunned, first of all, to know that tiny Malts could withstand puppy mill conditions... I had always thought that their relative fragility kept them out of the millers' clutches. I learned this is not the case.

Thank you for what you and many others are doing for Maltese rescue. 
Lilly


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

ParisandRio said:


> The Bichon Frise craze with BYB, puppy mills and pet shops hit high peak when J.R. won Westminster. That was in the late 80's I believe. When people saw that they didn't HAVE a potential J.R. living with them, the dogs were literally dumped.
> 
> I have worked with Small Paws Bichon Frise Rescue, and I, too, hope that Maltese stay in their own little niche', beloved by those who know them, and oblivious to puppy millers and other unscrupulous mass producers. The case of JS in TN was unknown to me until this past weekend. I was stunned, first of all, to know that tiny Malts could withstand puppy mill conditions... I had always thought that their relative fragility kept them out of the millers' clutches. I learned this is not the case.
> 
> ...



The Hollybelle Maltese were sold directly to buyers.

Go into any pet store and you're sure to find a Maltese. USDA puppymills have already discovered the breed and are exploiting them.


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## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

Nikki's Mom said:


> The reason why Maltese are in the "Bichon" family is that the word "Bichon" means small white lap dog. In France, the Maltese is one of 5 breeds that are considered to be in the Bichon family, and are called "Bichon Maltese"
> 
> So "Bichon" is a word used in France to describe a class of dogs. Bichon is also used for a particular breed, which is "Bichon Frise," which means "curly lap dog."
> 
> ...


Barron is Bichon x Shih Tzu - he is, by far, one of the brightest fluffs that I have ever seen.


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

ParisandRio said:


> I've been a Bichon Frise mom for over 25 years.. The breed has developed many severe genetic problems since I bought my first one, unfortunately, due to overbreeding and poor breeding. They were the puppy mill/ pet store darlings and highest sellers for most of the 80's and 90's. Now, puppy mills give them away to the country's largest Bichon-specific rescue group. Small Paws.
> 
> I live with both elderly and middle aged adult Bichons Frises ( the correct plural) and young adult Maltese. *Overall, my Malts are healthier and hardier than my larger Bichons were at the same ages*. The breeding lines of all are quite sturdy and good.
> 
> I love my Bichons dearly, but at this point and time in their troubled breeding programs, I would be quite afraid to buy a Bichon from the top show/ breeding program in the country, even with the 2 DNA certs which Bichons can have done. I know that this forum is about Maltese, but since the discussion has taken this turn, I have to say that my research shows that the Maltese breed still retains more purity of bloodline that has not been diluted, overbred and filled with fraudulent pedigrees like the possibly more popular Bichon Frise has been. That's the main reason we chose Malts over Bichons Frises for our last 3 fluffs. Their tiny preciousness being the other.


very interesting (as I did not know that about this breed before) and sad at the same time for the beautiful bichon frise breed. 

I guess that is the disadvantage of a breed becoming very popular. 

I might be mistaken, but from my understanding, observation and reading, the maltese breed is also very popular. I read somewhere that the maltese is the breed that is dumped the most in some shelters  to me, this only confirms how popular it got too and I am sure that many don't know the truth about pet stores and puppy mills.


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## suzimalteselover (Mar 27, 2006)

Katkoota said:


> jane - thanks for bringing this up . I was at a store in France (during my trip) with Snowy and Crystal. A lady approached, had a little chat, petted the malts, went Awwhing and cute talking to them...etc then she looked at me and was like "I also have a bichon":blink:
> My response was "these two are Maltese dogs". She smiled and said "yes I know, bichon Maltese". I do know that they are grouped in the bichon family under FCI because I read that when I was doing my first search on the breed when I got Snowy, but it did confuse me at that second when i heard that lady, so I repeated once again to her "there is no bichon in them - they are Maltese" lol the funny part is that we were like going back and forth "bichon Maltese" and "Maltese" for a couple more times :HistericalSmiley: she sure was a nice lady, nevertheless - ended that breed convo with a giggle from both sides and continued petting the malts  I learned that the term bichon maltese is common there. However, they do know that the bichon fries is a different breed than a Maltese.
> Kat


Kat, that's hilarious! "Yes, I love your Bichon Maltese. No, they are Maltese, Yes, I love your Bichon Maltese.":huh: :HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley:



ParisandRio said:


> I've been a Bichon Frise mom for over 25 years.. The breed has developed many severe genetic problems since I bought my first one, unfortunately, due to overbreeding and poor breeding. They were the puppy mill/ pet store darlings and highest sellers for most of the 80's and 90's. Now, puppy mills give them away to the country's largest Bichon-specific rescue group. Small Paws.
> 
> I live with both elderly and middle aged adult Bichons Frises ( the correct plural) and young adult Maltese. *Overall, my Malts are healthier and hardier than my larger Bichons were at the same ages*. The breeding lines of all are quite sturdy and good.
> 
> I love my Bichons dearly, but at this point and time in their troubled breeding programs, I would be quite afraid to buy a Bichon from the top show/ breeding program in the country, even with the 2 DNA certs which Bichons can have done. I know that this forum is about Maltese, but since the discussion has taken this turn, I have to say that my research shows that the Maltese breed still retains more purity of bloodline that has not been diluted, overbred and filled with fraudulent pedigrees like the possibly more popular Bichon Frise has been. That's the main reason we chose Malts over Bichons Frises for our last 3 fluffs. Their tiny preciousness being the other.


My Mandy is mostly Bichon mixed with Maltese. I did not purchase her as a mixed breed. The breeder sold her to me as a purebred Maltese. (A blessing in disguise, we love her so very much. She has the temperament of the Bichon Frise. She is so good to our little Josey and puts up with her puppy antics.) But, a groomer I met made this same comment to me about the Bichon Frise. 





ParisandRio said:


> The Bichon Frise craze with BYB, puppy mills and pet shops hit high peak when J.R. won Westminster. That was in the late 80's I believe. When people saw that they didn't HAVE a potential J.R. living with them, the dogs were literally dumped.
> 
> I have worked with Small Paws Bichon Frise Rescue, and I, too, hope that Maltese stay in their own little niche', beloved by those who know them, and oblivious to puppy millers and other unscrupulous mass producers. The case of JS in TN was unknown to me until this past weekend. I was stunned, first of all, to know that tiny Malts could withstand puppy mill conditions... I had always thought that their relative fragility kept them out of the millers' clutches. I learned this is not the case.
> 
> ...


We had a Bichon Frise named Casper. We miss him so much! He acted just like J.R.!!!! I will never forget J.R. in that Burger King commercial. :wub:


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

suzimalteselover said:


> We had a Bichon Frise named Casper. We miss him so much! He acted just like J.R.!!!! I will never forget J.R. in that Burger King commercial. :wub:


awwwwh Suzi, Do you have a photo of Casper? :wub: he sounds like a cutie with a fun personality:wub:


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## missiek (Jan 2, 2010)

Oh my goodness Marj those videos are a good reminder to us all! I am literally sick to my stomach and in tears. I wish I could run to those places and scoop up all those poor souls


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## suzimalteselover (Mar 27, 2006)

Katkoota said:


> awwwwh Suzi, Do you have a photo of Casper? :wub: he sounds like a cutie with a fun personality:wub:


Yes, I do. But, I need to go to my old photo albums and scan a photo of him. We had Casper before I got a computer. Gosh, that seems like the dark ages now.


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

@Suzi awwh no worries my friend if u didn't get the chance to do it 
I still have an image in my head about how Casper was like. I picture him being Mr. Personality :wub: and I am sure he was loved so much by his mommy


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## Leonora (Jul 17, 2011)

I must say that I'm thankful that puppymills is not legal here in Norway.
Maltese are very small breed in population here in norway, in 2009 it was regitered only 30 pups/dogs in Norwegian Kennel klub. The Cavalier was, the same year, registered over 900 puppys and dogs... 

My three maltese is only one of them registrated, but only in sweden. Haven't sent his paper to NKK yet.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

I never heard of this either... and usually when someone asks me if my dogs are bichons they are asking because they think they look like a bichon. :huh: I get offended... especially cause bichons are build bigger and here i am with this 3lb skinny minnie kodie and they are asking me if hes a bichon!? i dont get it.... wouldnt u think kodie is a really weird chihuahua instead? lol.. I always thought bichons look more like a poodle cause they have curly hair.

but... someone once told me that when you buy a maltese from a pet store sometimes they are mixed with bichons... :blink:


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

But...when people ask if your Malt is a bichon, you should say, "No it is a Maltese." The people who ask mean "is is a bichon frise" It is good to know the history of our breed and their adorable cousins, but the person on the street wants the simple answer. I've met people who had never seen a Malt. Last week we met someone who said, "I've didn't know they had such long hair."


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

kodie said:


> I never heard of this either... and usually when someone asks me if my dogs are bichons they are asking because they think they look like a bichon. :huh: I get offended... especially cause bichons are build bigger and here i am with this 3lb skinny minnie kodie and they are asking me if hes a bichon!? i dont get it.... wouldnt u think kodie is a really weird chihuahua instead? lol.. I always thought bichons look more like a poodle cause they have curly hair.
> 
> but... someone once told me that when you buy a maltese from a pet store sometimes they are mixed with bichons... :blink:



Many people have asked me if my coton is a Malt. They say, they had a Malt and it looked just like Ray. Once I said, but much smaller, right? Ray is about 15 pounds. No about the same size. There are certainly a lot of perfectly adorable Malts who are way off the standard...or maybe mixed.


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## DiamondsDad (Jul 14, 2011)

Katkoota said:


> jane - thanks for bringing this up . I was at a store in France (during my trip) with Snowy and Crystal. A lady approached, had a little chat, petted the malts, went Awwhing and cute talking to them...etc then she looked at me and was like "I also have a bichon":blink:
> My response was "these two are Maltese dogs". She smiled and said "yes I know, bichon Maltese". I do know that they are grouped in the bichon family under FCI because I read that when I was doing my first search on the breed when I got Snowy, but it did confuse me at that second when i heard that lady, so I repeated once again to her "there is no bichon in them - they are Maltese" lol the funny part is that we were like going back and forth "bichon Maltese" and "Maltese" for a couple more times :HistericalSmiley: she sure was a nice lady, nevertheless - ended that breed convo with a giggle from both sides and continued petting the malts  I learned that the term bichon maltese is common there. However, they do know that the bichon fries is a different breed than a Maltese.
> Kat


 This confirms my understanding of the way Maltese are "Bichons." Historically in France, (and I believe through French influence- England) Matlese were called Bichons. What we know as Bichons in North America, Bichon Frises, are literally "Curly-haired" bichons. There would be no need for the "fise" or "curly" modifier if there were one type of Bichon in French.


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

Sylie said:


> But...when people ask if your Malt is a bichon, you should say, "No it is a Maltese." The people who ask mean "is is a bichon frise" It is good to know the history of our breed and their adorable cousins, but the person on the street wants the simple answer. I've met people who had never seen a Malt. Last week we met someone who said, "I've didn't know they had such long hair."


I must say that i LOVE MiMi's coat :wub: pretty long. I wish I can keep up with the long coat. But I fail when I try lol


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## memememe (Aug 4, 2011)

ParisandRio said:


> The Bichon Frise craze with BYB, puppy mills and pet shops hit high peak when J.R. won Westminster. That was in the late 80's I believe. When people saw that they didn't HAVE a potential J.R. living with them, the dogs were literally dumped.


J.R. won Westminster in 2001, not in the 80's or 90's. Bichon Frises became a recognized breed in 1972 by the AKC, and that is when they started being bred over this way. By the 80's they were the new popular breed and people loved them because they were cute fluffy white dogs, making them very popular in pet stores. People "dump" all kinds of breeds of dogs because they don't like how the puppies grow up. They expect them to stay the cute puppies but end up thinking that when they become adults that they are burdens and no longer cute. 



Nikki's Mom said:


> It's such a shame because Bichons are such wonderful little dogs. I had one for 15 years that I dearly loved. Poor thing was sick her entire life.


Just because your dog was sick her entire life, doesn't make Bichon Frises an unhealthy breed. Bichon Frises are in fact a very healthy, hearty breed. 15 years is a long time to live being "sick her entire life". Perhaps she was being fed purina or science diet or pedigree or any of the other like awful brands that are filled with junk. That makes up the majory of health problems in ANY breed. 

Havanese, Maltese, Coton de Tulear, Frises.... they're all Bichons. But I do think it's funny when someone asks if a Maltese is a Bichon. They look quite different. The Bichon Frises are the only ones with very curly hair. The others are more similar, but still Maltese can be differentiated easily from the rest, as can Bichon Frises. Havanese and Cotons look very very similar


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## SpringHasSprung (May 4, 2007)

> Just because your dog was sick her entire life, doesn't make Bichon Frises an unhealthy breed. Bichon Frises are in fact a very healthy, hearty breed. 15 years is a long time to live being "sick her entire life". Perhaps she was being fed purina or science diet or pedigree or any of the other like awful brands that are filled with junk. That makes up the majory of health problems in ANY breed.


Yow! You obviously don't know Nikki's Mom!


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