# How Fat is too Fat?



## Maxsmom (Aug 5, 2007)

I went to the vet today to deal with a hip injury for my boy. His mother was 6 lbs and his father was 9 lbs. He was from her last litter from a breeder in my community. And the biggest in the litter. He was 9 lbs up until about 2 months ago. He started to gain weight. He begs for table food, which I discourage. He eats only an all natural brand dog food that is high in protein that I special order. He likes it, but he doesn't love it! I give him 1 SMALL can of chicken breast (Swanson) each morning. I can tell that he's getting tubby, but he weighed in today at 11.3 lbs! With him being almost a year old (next month) my vet says that I should try to contain his weight or it will cause him hip and knee problems in the long run. I just can't get him to stop begging. Why is he SOOOO hungry?

CM


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

My Lady is like your Max. She lives to eat. When I adopted her I couldn't resist those big brown eyes and although I carefully measured her food, I gave her too many treats. She blossomed up to 11.5.

A year and half later she was diagnosed with diabetes. I wish I knew then what I know now, that canine diabetes is caused by obesity and genetics, just like in humans. I wish anyone who can't resist a begging dog could spend some time with me. Diabetic dogs are always Type I and will need twice daily injections of insulin every day, every twelve hours apart, for the rest of their lives. Most go blind, usually in the first year. They are plagued by urinary tract infections,, eye infections and have a weakened immune system. Nothing is simple - or cheap. A little uti can run $700 as it did for Lady this past winter.

Not all Maltese will end up in the 4-7 pound range the standard calls for. It would be cruel to try to diet a dog that is genetically programmed to be large down to that size. I know you've figured out that Max is probably a Maltese/Bichon mix and Bichons are bigger than Maltese. If your vet feels that Max is overweight, though, he is right. You must get the excess weight off for Max's health.

What has worked for Miss Live-to-Eat- Lady is proper treat size and proper treats. I learned the hard way that even the smallest biscuit is way too big for a little dog. I get those Old Mother Hubbard _Just Veggin'_ mini biscuits and cut them in half. I keep a little bag frozen and it lasts for months. A tiny piece of liver biscotti is also a great treat. Best of all, though, are veggies. They are full of fiber and make them feel full. Lady adores frozen cut green beans, slightly thawed. I cut them in half and put them in her Busy Buddy Twist and Treat and she thinks it the most wonderful treat in the world. Baby carrots, peppers, a little broccoli, all are great treats, too.

Just a suggestion, but could you switch from the canned chicken breast to the ones packaged in plastic/cellophane? Or even better, cook chicken breast yourself and freeze it. Canned foods are loaded with sodium to preserve them and really shouldn't be eaten everyday.

If Max hates his food, have you tried Natures Variety's Prairie? Lady's been eating it for about a year now and has done really well on it. I don't feed the raw, but she gets their kibble and canned. I know other people here feed it and are happy with it. I think it get four paws up for its yummy factor.

http://www.naturesvariety.com/


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## Skippy4Us (Feb 20, 2006)

My Skippy is 13 lbs :blush: He was 8 or 9 lbs when we got him and he's also a starvin Marvin. I've tried cutting back on his food but he throws up bile when he doesn't get enough. and we never give him our food except for baby carrots. I also know that skippy is a Bichon/Maltese Mix so he's going to be bigger than a Pure Breed Maltese. What does the vet say about the swanson chicken?


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## Gemma (Jan 19, 2006)

Sparkey begs a lot too but when he is jumping a lot then I just offer him something that I'm eating that he doesn't like , for example pickles and I tell him you don't like it. then he will lay down until we finish eating or sometimes he will go to where I have his treat jar and stare at me :wub: . I think they are just curious to see what you are eating. I would never feed him anything that we are eating , not because it is bad for him but because he will jump even higher next time.


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

Boo is always hungry, I think he would eat until he made himself sick if I let him. He's a little on the chubby side but not a lot. I feed him reduced calorie or lite dog kibble & give him healthy treats like saltfree greenbeans & small bites of raw baby carrots mostly. He also loves ice & thinks it's a special treat. Hannah loves to eat too & I feed her the same food & treats as Boo. I'm not sure how fat too fat is, but my vet says " watch his weight, he doesn't need to get any heavier" & the groomer says she doesn't think he's too fat. So I just keep doing what I do. He is maintaining his weight & staying about the same. I don't know why Boo seems to be sooooooo hungry either. Sure makes me feel bad sometimes.


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## Maxsmom (Aug 5, 2007)

> My Skippy is 13 lbs :blush: He was 8 or 9 lbs when we got him and he's also a starvin Marvin. I've tried cutting back on his food but he throws up bile when he doesn't get enough. and we never give him our food except for baby carrots. I also know that skippy is a Bichon/Maltese Mix so he's going to be bigger than a Pure Breed Maltese. What does the vet say about the swanson chicken?[/B]


I knew what she'd say. I was afraid to tell her!!! My mother-in-law feeds her dogs and cats into great obesity. She has had some come down with Diabetes, Hip Displasia, and one of her dogs just lied down and couldn't get back up. When I say obesity, I would compare her dogs (relatively) to a 600 lb man. She has several animals and makes them a great life. Her vet bills are into the thousands. She really rattles my cage on not giving Max the things that he loves, but I don't want to love him to Death!

CM


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

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Your MIL sounds a little odd to me, and I don't mean to be disrespectful. But truly, purposely feeding a dog so much that it dies early or causes disease... to me that is abuse. Remember the mother who was charged with abuse for letting her child get so fat. Something just isn't right with someone who continually gives their dogs anything that is not good for them. I'm not referring to the occasional piece of this or that. But true major over-feeding. The dog has no choice and no decision in anything. It is up to us, as their caretakers, to make decisions that are in the best interests of our dogs.


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

> I went to the vet today to deal with a hip injury for my boy. His mother was 6 lbs and his father was 9 lbs. He was from her last litter from a breeder in my community. And the biggest in the litter. He was 9 lbs up until about 2 months ago. He started to gain weight. He begs for table food, which I discourage. He eats only an all natural brand dog food that is high in protein that I special order. He likes it, but he doesn't love it! I give him 1 SMALL can of chicken breast (Swanson) each morning. I can tell that he's getting tubby, but he weighed in today at 11.3 lbs! With him being almost a year old (next month) my vet says that I should try to contain his weight or it will cause him hip and knee problems in the long run. I just can't get him to stop begging. Why is he SOOOO hungry?
> 
> CM[/B]


I think Ladysmom gave some really good suggestions. I would go with those. :thumbsup:


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

i would def cut out the canned chicken and boil it like marj suggested..i would also decrease the amt u give him. it might seem like a small amount to u but his stomach is as small as a babies tummy. he has no sense of measurement and as long as he is getting something he wont care if it is less. also remember that bags of food usually estimate over what u should be feeding and when u add in extras u need to subtract those calories from the regular food.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

yes, please heed the vets advise and watch that weight. missy was spoiled and we gave her anything and everything she wanted. We did it out of love BUT!! we were killing her with kindness as they say. Missy became diabetic and like Marj's Lady..required 2 x day insulin injections. Plus! she was then FORCED to change her eating habits. Her "goodies" became the frozen green beans... she LOVED! them.. who knew?? 
Better to do the weight-watching now before diabetes or heart problems happen and the ever-fragile knees these 'kid' are prone to.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

> I just offer him something that I'm eating that he doesn't like , for example pickles and I tell him you don't like it. then he will lay down until we finish eating or sometimes he will go to where I have his treat jar and stare at me :wub:[/B]


 :HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley:


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## Skippy4Us (Feb 20, 2006)

Well I don't think I'd call her Mom odd, but just not aware of the harm she's doing. I know my Mom loves my Dog and thinks I underfeed him. She just does not get that just because he will eat it all I don't neccesarily have to give him more. Now maybe part of it is that she's italian and everything revolves around food. :biggrin: I have caught her many times trying ot give him cheese and one time she gave him a small piece of italian bread with cream cheese!! We've argued on the matter constantly but to no avail she's always right and I'm the mean dog owner who is "starving'" my 13 lb dog. Anyway what I would do is just cut back on his meals a bit and I'd stop feeding the swanson chicken. Anything canned can't be all that good for you anyway. Why don't you boil some ck breasts instead? And maybe he would enjoy carrots and green beans as treats too? Good luck!


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## Maxsmom (Aug 5, 2007)

Who would have known that Max would LOVE frozen Green Beans. He scarfs them up! Thanks for the information. I've also ordered the food that you suggested Marj. TYVM!!!

CM


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> Who would have known that Max would LOVE frozen Green Beans. He scarfs them up! Thanks for the information. I've also ordered the food that you suggested Marj. TYVM!!!
> 
> CM[/B]


 :aktion033: :aktion033: 

Isn't it amazing how they love those green beans?

Who knew? 

Lady thinks the ultimate treat is when I cut them up and put them in her Twist and Treat.

http://www.busybuddytoys.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=2


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

Yikes, this all scares me BECAUSE my dad and stepmom have a malt who is the same age as Ollie (only two weeks older) and I saw him today for the first time in a few months--his weight has ballooned--he is the same length as Ollie but I swear he is twice the width. Ollie is about 8.5 to 9 lbs and my dad's malt must be around 11 - 12 lbs at least. It scared me. He is still a puppy--11 months. My step-mom swears he hardly eats anything as far as his "dog food" goes--and she does feed him very good quality kibble with a touch of canned food. I think my dad must sneak him stuff. The dog is obviously eating SOMETHING. I kept asking her "are you sure he is ok?" She is my step-mom and I didn't want to overstep any boundaries there, but now that you mention it, Marj, I wasn't thinking at ALL about diabetes!! I will call them and talk to them about it. They were saying that it was muscle--it can't be. I mean, he is round. My dad is so in love with that dog it would shatter him if he knew he was doing harm to his dog. He needs to be told. I'm rambling and a little off topic here, but yeah, I would be very concerned about an overweight pooch--like a very overweight human, it has very, VERY serious, even life-threatening ramifications....

P.S. about the canned chicken--canned foods are typically laden with sodium (it's what preserves it). High sodium diet is very dangerous. I hope your baby will get on a healthy track soon.

P.P.S about him being "hungry" all the time--that's just what some dogs do. Ollie is that way. You just have to not give in.....


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## Maxsmom (Aug 5, 2007)

I have put the hammer down. It's green beans and measured diet for this 11 month old male. But like you, Max ballooned in such a short time (a matter of weeks) I thought that he may have clogged his GI tract and was swelling!!! He got very wide, very fast. Now my sis-n-law who has a maltese pom mix, (a bit smaller frame) Female 14 months old is shorter than Max and she is very, very wide. With Max being 11.3 lbs, I'll bet she is at least 12-13 lbs. She is WIDE. My s-n-l also insists that she is a VERY picky eater and hardly eats anything. It may be a lack of activity? Huh? Max is hopefully on his way to a healthier lifestyle. Thank you all for your support. This is a great forum! 

CM


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