# Am I doing something wrong?



## Miss_Annie (Mar 3, 2010)

I may just being too sensitive but...

I finally got up the courage to e-mail some breeders and tell them exactly what I'm looking for. I want a 3lb male with a baby doll head, short snout, and big eyes. :blush:

I expected some of the breeders to say, "Well, sometimes there's a runt in the litter. I'll let you know if one comes up that fits your description." but I keep getting emails telling me all about the AKC standard, which I'm well aware, that the maltese should be around 4-7 lbs. That's all they're telling me.  and it comes across a bit snippy... 

I know 3lb maltese exist... and so do 10lb maltese. :blink: The standard isn't ALWAYS met... 

so am I doing something wrong in asking if they have small puppies? I feel as if they're responding as if I offended them by even asking..  Is it offensive to tell them exactly what I'm looking for?

Thanks in advance!


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

Technically a 'baby doll' face and a 3lber doesn't fit the standard so I'm sure they're pointing this out to you as they probably breed to the standard (depending on who you contacted). I would think a reputable breeder would try hard to adhere to the standard and not meet requests for super small, baby doll faces (they might see this as a 'trend' or 'fad'). Although I really have no idea, this is just my guess.

3 lbs is super tiny and fragile. Just wondering why you want one so small?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Well, you are asking for a dog that is not to standard and a reputable breeder is trying to breed dogs that meet the standard. Certainly they will have dogs that do not, but that is not their purpose. They likely get many e-mails with similar requests. 
I suggest picking a few breeders you are serious about. E-mail them and ask them when a good time to call is. Talking to them on the phone can make your intentions much more clear.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

On a side note, if size is so important I would suggest an adolescent or adult.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

Miss_Annie said:


> I may just being too sensitive but...
> 
> I finally got up the courage to e-mail some breeders and tell them exactly what I'm looking for. I want a 3lb male with a baby doll head, short snout, and big eyes. :blush:
> 
> ...


Honestly, if I got that message it would bother me. 

Is there a reason you are asking first about things that do not relate to the health, welfare and temperament of the dogs? 

It comes off to me as superficial. Maybe that is not your intention. But I believe the breeders who care about their puppies want to see that the buyers are as concerned with the welfare of the dogs as they are the cosmetics. 

Also, they probably get tons of emails asking for dogs under the standard. Yet, if they are breeding to the standard they do not have many that are under and it has to get under their skin to have so many people ask for something they try hard "not" to breed. 

I personally think that you may find the first person that responds positively to such requests is not someone who has the best interests of the puppies in mind. 

Now, perhaps there is a good reason you want a dog that is really really tiny. I know someone once who had arthritis and really felt that picking up a 3 pound dog was going to be easier on her. That was a compelling reason that she shared with the breeder. The breeder at first thought she was another one of "those" people, but after hearing that reason, she was more willing to keep a close look out for that special tiny one. 

I hope I haven't offended you with my honesty here. It is not my intention to. I had a three pound Maltese. She was very lovely, but I have had a 9 pounder, too. He was so special. I do often find myself bothered by the way people get so hung up on size.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

jmm said:


> On a side note, if size is so important I would suggest an adolescent or adult.


I soooo agree with this. *There is no way to garantee a puppies' future adult size.* I'd ask for one on the smaller end of the standard, that sounds better, and just hope it won't grow to be 10 lbs! But do you know the risk of owning a tinier malt?

And it is *VERY, VERY* hard to tell if a malt will have a tinier face when they are puppies. ALL puppies look the same until at least 5.5 months. Judging from my personal experience.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

If you are contacting reputable breeders, which I hope you are, no wonder they come across as a bit snippy. As they told you, the standard calls for Maltese to be between 4-7 pounds. Good breeders strive to produce puppies that fit that standard.

Tiny Maltese and other toy breeds are the current fad. That's why you see so many ads for "teacups" (there is no such thing). People want little pocket puppies like they see the celebrities carry around. Reputable breeders carefully screen prospective buyers and probably have a stock email they send to people they think fall into that group.

Reputable breeders sometimes produce puppies who will be less than 4 pounds despite their best efforts. Because they are so fragile, these puppies are placed in very carefully selected homes.


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

CloudClan said:


> Honestly, if I got that message it would bother me.
> 
> Is there a reason you are asking first about things that do not relate to the health, welfare and temperament of the dogs?
> 
> ...


Have to completely agree here.


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## Miss_Annie (Mar 3, 2010)

Thank you guys so much for the help and honesty.

I do have the dogs health in mind, that's why I'm going through lists of reputable breeders so that I don't have to worry about buying a sick puppy. I was going to buy from a breeder I found off of google, but there were always at least ten puppies listed that were predicted to be, at most, 3lbs. Before I bought a puppy, I found this forum and was able to not support that horrible breeder. I guess I need to ask them if their dogs have a history of any medical problems first? 

I've always wanted a small dog, I grew up with 5lb chihuahuas so they're normal sized dogs to me. I'm also a very small person. I'm only 4'10" and haven't grown a centimeter in years and am also very fragile.


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

I would probably include that you know that the standard for maltese is 4-7lbs but that you also know that sometimes they'll get puppies that stay smaller than they want to keep in their show/breeding program. Let them know why you are hoping for a Maltese on the smaller side. Also, are you actually saying you want a "3lb maltese"? That just sounds so specific I guess...maybe if you just said that you are hoping to have one that stays under 4lbs full grown so that they don't think you are overly picky about size if that makes sense. Honestly, it always concerns me to see people want really tiny dogs too so the particular breeders you contacted may not like people to ask for tiny dogs....but it is true that many breeders will end up with dogs that stay a little too small or get a little too big for the show ring so it is possible to get what you want from a great breeder.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Please, please be very careful of those ads that promise that the dog will be 3 pounds full grown! They are brokers, backyard breeders, and puppy mills who use that as a marketing ploy. 

Those are the puppies that often end up being 10 pounds!


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## Miss_Annie (Mar 3, 2010)

Thankfully, due to this forum, I know that now! Those BYBs aren't going to trick me.  I've been emailing, regretably, breeders from the AMA list and the breeders that were deemed as reputable in this forum. 

Now that I know how I came across, I can _try_ to patch things up with the breeders.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Miss_Annie said:


> Thankfully, due to this forum, I know that now! Those BYBs aren't going to trick me.  I've been emailing, regretably, breeders from the AMA list and the breeders that were deemed as reputable in this forum.
> 
> Now that I know how I came across, I can _try_ to patch things up with the breeders.


A face to face meeting is often much better than an email. I'd suggest going to some local shows and seeing if you can meet some of the breeders after they've finished. You'll learn a lot about Maltese and meet some of the smaller breeders who may not be on the AMA list.

Here's a schedule of dog shows by state:

InfoDog AKC Dog Show Information - Search by State


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

I was contacted last year by someone looking for a female puppy who would be under 5 lbs. full grown. She came to this forum first and posted about what she was looking for and then found me. I, of course, had the advantage of already knowing what she was looking for and knowing what advice she had been given via this forum. She emailed me telling me what she was looking for and I emailed her back telling her what the standard calls for and what I strive to produce in my breedings. I basically told her what you've been told by the breeders who you have communicated with. Then this woman called me and told me her reasons for wanting what she wanted. That phone call made all the difference in the world. I invited her and her husband to come visit and told her that I had a young male puppy who I thought would be between 4-1/2 to 5-1/2 lbs. full grown and I had an older female puppy who I knew would never be more than 4 lbs. if that and I felt belonged in a home as someone's beloved pet rather than in the show ring. Again, that phone call made all the difference. I met this couple, they met the dogs, we both hit the jackpot, and they are now the very happy slaves to their little girl Maltese.

What you are looking for is a dog who does not meet the standard. If you want a girl that's understandable. If you want a very small dog because of your own physical limitations that, too, is very understandable and you should not hesitate to share that with the breeders you contact. But, honestly, a baby doll head with a short snout and big eyes have nothing to do with your gender preference or physical limitations or the dog being the runt of the litter. That comes across to me as you wanting a breeder to custom make a dog for you and I'm sure that is not all the impression you were intending to give.


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## Miss_Annie (Mar 3, 2010)

Thanks for the list Ladysmomma, and the idea! I've never thought about going to the shows and talking to everyone and their babies. 

and I am so greatful I have you guys. I apologized to the breeder that got upset and told her all about me reading Dr. Pitcairns book and why I wanted a smaller dog, and she said I sounded like I'm make a wonderful owner and referred me to a friend of hers that has a smaller male available.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Miss_Annie said:


> Thanks for the list Ladysmomma, and the idea! I've never thought about going to the shows and talking to everyone and their babies.
> 
> and I am so greatful I have you guys. I apologized to the breeder that got upset and told her all about me reading Dr. Pitcairns book and why I wanted a smaller dog, and she said I sounded like I'm make a wonderful owner and referred me to a friend of hers that has a smaller male available.


That sounds promising!

It's so hard to make a good impression in an email without the benefit of face to face contact. Unfortunately, I think throwing out a three pound weight preference initially triggered lots of red flags for the breeders you contacted.

Be glad you are getting scrutinized so carefully. It means you are dealing with reputable breeders who care about who adopts their puppies.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

ilovemymaltese said:


> I soooo agree with this. *There is no way to garantee a puppies' future adult size.* I'd ask for one on the smaller end of the standard, that sounds better, and just hope it won't grow to be 10 lbs! But do you know the risk of owning a tinier malt?
> 
> And it is *VERY, VERY* hard to tell if a malt will have a tinier face when they are puppies. *ALL puppies look the same until at least 5.5 months. Judging from my personal experience.*



I have to disagree with this statement, all puppies do not look the same. Maybe when they are newly born and a few weeks old, it's harder to tell but as they get older, they get their own distinct faces. it's easy for me to look on puppyfind and spot the puppies that will probably grow up with longer muzzles and not what the standard calls for, but at the same time, all puppies are cute. 

Briana I cant' remember, what exactly is your experience? You've shown, right?

To the OP, I think by stating in your initial email that you are aware of the standard, etc etc and explain what you're looking for and why, you'll get a much favorable response. I have had emails like the one you described sending and it does make me go hmmm... If you wrote and asked if I would have a puppy close to the standard, my answer would be 'i hope so' since that is my ultimate goal, but if you wrote and asked for a puppy not to the standard, i would have to say 'i hope not!' 

I am sorry though that you are getting bad responses! Hopefully you can find your perfect breeder and your perfect baby :wub:


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

Miss_Annie said:


> Thanks for the list Ladysmomma, and the idea! I've never thought about going to the shows and talking to everyone and their babies.
> 
> and I am so greatful I have you guys. I apologized to the breeder that got upset and told her all about me reading Dr. Pitcairns book and why I wanted a smaller dog, and she said I sounded like I'm make a wonderful owner and referred me to a friend of hers that has a smaller male available.


Why exactly _do _you want a 3lb dog vs a 4lb+ Maltese? There is often no distinguishable difference between a 3lb Malt and a 4lb Malt. I have also seen some lower-weight Maltese who are taller and/or longer than a heavier Maltese. It's all in the structure.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

bellaratamaltese said:


> I have to disagree with this statement, all puppies do not look the same. Maybe when they are newly born and a few weeks old, it's harder to tell but as they get older, they get their own distinct faces. it's easy for me to look on puppyfind and spot the puppies that will probably grow up with longer muzzles and not what the standard calls for, but at the same time, all puppies are cute.
> 
> Briana I cant' remember, what exactly is your experience? You've shown, right?


I know, I meant based on the average(not proffessional breeder or exhibitor) puppy buying person's experience, like mine.  Unless I raised them from a newborn and up(which I haven't) then they all look the same to me! I remeber those days looking for puppies. LOL That's why I said 5.5 months old, because that when I got Gigi, and that' when I noticed I could tell. Still it is very, very hard to explain the difference in a puppy's snout size to a new puppy buyer(literally, _every_ peron who is on this forum and wanted a "babydoll" faced puppy has asked me this before). Even after about two years, I can spot it now sorta, but there is no way possible for me to explain that to them, that's why they usually jut send me pictures. LOL _Average_ was my key word. :thumbsup:


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

There _is a show breeder in Springfield, MO who has smaller maltese. If you want to see another breeder. He is a nice guy and very nice to work with. He also breeds chi's too. And they are tiny. He doesn't have a computer so he doesn't have a web site or e-mail. He is getting ready to retire._
_Explaining why you want a smaller Maltese is very important when you talk to breeders. I had someone e-mail wanting a smaller maltese. She had breast cancer and her arms were not very strong to hold a bigger maltese. I had an 8 month old girl who I was holding for show for me, but this person really needed her more than I did. Being up front is a good idea. _
​


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

Have you ever seen or held a 3 pound Malt? When they're that little, it's scarey having them underfoot:w00t: I'm much more comfortable now that my girl is around 4 pounds. Anything under that, is was too small for me personally.

Keep checking all the breeder sites. Sometimes smaller ones are offered as pets.

Best of luck in finding your baby!


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

I forgot to add that when they're that small you tend to be very protective and treat them like a baby. I did that with Libby and carried her up and down stairs. Now that she's bigger, she won't do stairs:blink:


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## bellasmummy (Apr 8, 2009)

> Honestly, if I got that message it would bother me.
> 
> Is there a reason you are asking first about things that do not relate to the health, welfare and temperament of the dogs?
> 
> ...


Please dont take this the wrong way but i totally agree with the others. Ive never bred but if i got an email asking for a 3lb ''baby doll faced'' malt i would be quite angry and truthfully i wouldnt even think if selling to you. I hate the whole ''baby doll'' thing, plus its putting the looks of the dog way before the health. Are you awear how many health troubles smaller dogs can have?? Plus as others have said theres no way to say what weight an adult dog will be once grown. I wouldnt ask for ''3lb'' but you could say you hope for a smaller maltese and exlain your reason for this whatever it is. I think though you should really rethink what you are asking for and prehaps try to reword it when emailing.


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## CeeCee's Mom (Sep 14, 2006)

I would have to agree with Carina and Andrea..........:wub:


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I belong to a large Yorkie forum and super tiny Yorkies are the fad. There are quite a few that are only 2-3 pounds full grown. The numbers of threads were get about these tiny ones breaking their legs from jumping off a couch or being stepped on is alarming. Sadly, even expensive surgeries often aren't successful. We've had a number of cases where the leg didn't heal and required amputation.


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Put yourself in the breeder's shoes....you are trying your best to produce the ideal maltese.....spent years trying to perfect it.....and someone calls you and asks for a three pounder. You might be offended too.

I wanted a smaller pup when I got Ava, but i didn't know what I was getting until after she grew. Ava is now 1 1/2 years old and is only 3 lbs. I wouldn't trade her for the world, but I sure wish she would get up to 4 lbs.....it makes all the difference in the world. She can't use the doggie doors nor go down steps. My other dogs race around the house and I am always worried about her. It's not like you can carry them ALL the time! honestly it's a real worry, especially around older people and company!! 

Perhaps you could try to create a relationship with a few breeders and let them know you'd love one on the smaller end of the standard. The face, in my opinion is pure personal preference.... I prefer the baby doll look. Although the standard "classic" look can be absolutely stunning also :wub:. 

Just be real and realistic. Good luck in your search.


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

My Rylee goes between 3.5 to 4 pounds and I can tell you I really have to be careful on picking him up,making sure he doesn't wiggle out of my arms or worry if I step on him ,or trip over him. We have to watch dosing and anaesthetic and other vet issues since he's so small.
He came to me as a foster that I totally fell in love with. But I do have to pay extra attention for his small size. He can't jump up or down from furniture,can't go up or down steps,so I have to lift and carry him in many situations. He can't even go up or down the one step in and out of the house.I thought I wanted a tiny sized Malt but opted for a 6-7 pound size on my first 2,they're pretty rugged and tough for little dogs,you can rough house a little with them. 

Rylee you can't,he's too delicate. I love him to death,I do but when I get another Malt it'll be larger in comparison like my other girls since I've seen the health issues.. It's healthier for them in the end. 

Besides the standard isn't there ,just for beauty,it's there for stamina and over all health of the dog. Deviating from that is asking for issues really,it's sacrificing health for a personal beauty preferance. A designer dog. It's not fair to the dog and can be heartbreaking fo rthe owner...

So any reputable breeder would be a little snippy as they know what happens to dogs that are bred to deviate from standard. They want to breed healthy happy puppies that grow up to be a cherished family member for many years and not break the new family's heart w/ illness or even early death. 
Plus they probably get many requests for teacups and so on and having to explain the same thing...over and over...can be vexing...

Don't worry ,just think if it as a valuable lesson. We're all learning new things all the time,no matter how long we've had Malts or how many we've had.


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## EmmasMommy (Jun 2, 2008)

Some reputable breeders breed to the standard and still get tiny ones. I can appreciate you asking for what you desire, because you know that some pups will be that sized and they will be sold as pets.

My Twinkle is 7 months old and still around 2.4-2.6 lbs. She was sold as a pet because he knew she would be too small to be shown or bred AND she had hypoglycemia as a baby. Her litter mates are all over 4 and even 5 lbs.

My Mimi is a show dog and she is 3.6 lbs and 10 months old ( he expected her to be 4.25 -4.5 lbs at maturity ( I don't know if she will make it) but her littermate sister is 5.5 +lbs. so it is not an exact science.

If you tell a breeder that you are looking for something specific and you are willing to wait until you find it, thats your perogative. I would ask to be put on a waiting list.

Good luck.


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## Snow White (Dec 6, 2009)

IMO, the best way to start communicating with a breeder (if by email) is to just politely introduce yourself and ask the breeder if they have any pups available. It is always nice to add why you want one, for example "I currently have a boy and would love to give him a sibling." or just "I would love to add an adorable maltese to my family". I find that most breeders reply back with a polite yes with some details on what is available or "no" then referral to another breeder.  Once you have established the basics then maybe get into what "look" and "size" you prefer. I have found that some breeders even attach pictures even when I have not asked.  Some breeders will even tell you about available pups that no one knows about. 

Good luck in finding the right breeder and pup.


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

I love the look of a shorter muzzle and large round, slightly wideset eyes...but I refuse to use the term "babydoll face"...I just don't like it. I think you can describe the features you like without generalizing and using a term like that. It just almost sounds like teacup to me. I'm sure it comes from being primarily a Yorkie person...the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America says it is unethical to use terms such as "teacup" and "doll faced" so it always surprises me to see people throw the term "baby doll face" around so much on this forum. Maybe many Maltese exhibitors have a problem with that term as well? Like I said, I love the look that a lot of people consider "babydoll face" but it's one of those terms that doesn't necessarily have a definition and is up to each individual to interpret so "babydoll face" will mean different things to different people. That's why I don't like it. If you show a few photos of the look you like and just describe it as a shorter muzzle, large round eyes, etc it just makes more sense to me personally.


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## mi_ku_5 (Jun 2, 2008)

CloudClan said:


> Honestly, if I got that message it would bother me.
> 
> Is there a reason you are asking first about things that do not relate to the health, welfare and temperament of the dogs?
> 
> ...


That is an excellent post!

I'm shocked to see so many misinterpretations of the standard and even more shocked that no one corrected it. "Weight under 7 pounds, with from 4 to 6 pounds preferred. Overall quality is to be favored over size." That is taken directly off the AKC website and there is no minimum size for the Maltese. Or Yorkies, Chihuahua and Poodles for that matter, which means even the tiniest of those breeds are within the standard. However, smaller sizes lead to increased risk of C-section, injuries and health problems. I don't think those risks are worth shaving one or two pounds off the adult size of the dogs. A shorter snout could mean breathing problems, surgery to reduce the size of the soft palate, oversensitivity to heat and even lead to stroke. Larger than normal or offset eyes could lead to eye injury or even loss. Shih Tzu, Pekingnese and Pugs often lose eyes, even from just having their hair brushed. I don't think any breeder should be breeding for such deviations from the standard and we as pet buyers shouldn't encourage the practice.


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## uniquelovdolce (Mar 10, 2010)

i also think the term dollface is subject to interpretation, i think my dolce has a dollface , but does he? i mean i thought he did n then i see some of the pups here look like a lot more dollfaced , kwim ? so yes in a way it is an incorrect term.


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