# Can you help be gain some perspective on a very difficult sitch?



## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

I am just beside myself. I am spitting mad and just don't know what to do. My 92 year old aunt has been living at home with 24 hour health care providers (at an exorbitant cost.) She is in southern CA and I am in northern CA. My son has been stressed to breaking in taking care of her. So, yesterday, because she had a bad night with little sleep, she became very...shall we say, reactive. Her (very expensive) health care providers just do not want to actually have to work. She was sent to the hospital. The hospital then sent her to a nursing care facility with a ...get this...one star government approval rating. Nick and I couldn't even find her...she was lost in paper work. We don't know where she is. The hospital said they sent to to a certain care facility, but they have no record. How can they do this? How can they just ship your loved one off and not even tell you where she is? Right now, I can't find by aunt...and all I get is the run around. I am ready to jump out of my skin. I want to charge them with kidnapping...I am so angry and so scared. Oh, God I don't know what they have done with my Auntie and nobody gives me an answer...what do I do?


----------



## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

First off Sylie i'm so sorry to hear about your aunt. I know if that happened to one of my loved ones heads would be rolling. I would contact the head of the hospital and if that doesn't help i would report the hospital and tell them what is going on. Here's a link for Conerns about Hospitals in California. Informed Patient Institute | Hospital Care Quality - California


----------



## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

I have been on the phone for hours just trying to find her. After a 30minute hold I was told that her *%$# doctor unilaterally decided to place her in this sub-standard facility...and off she went, without a word to the family. Without asking us if we had a preference in long term care. Without one single word. They just sent her off to a badly rated....death farm. I am going to get her out of there and into a highly rated place, but OMG they do make it hard. And here I am, so far away, feeling so helpless, but angry.:crying:


----------



## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

mysugarbears said:


> First off Sylie i'm so sorry to hear about your aunt. I know if that happened to one of my loved ones heads would be rolling. I would contact the head of the hospital and if that doesn't help i would report the hospital and tell them what is going on. Here's a link for Conerns about Hospitals in California. Informed Patient Institute | Hospital Care Quality - California


Thank you, Debbie. I know you have much greater concerns, so I am very grateful that you took the time to help. You are a dear soul and I so so hope that you will find a bright light at the end of your frightening tunnel.:grouphug:


----------



## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Your very welcome Sylie...i'm so sorry with what happened to your aunt...it just makes me sick. I would definitely be going above the dr.s head and call the number on that link and report what has happened and report that dr., something needs to be done to the dr. that is unexcusable! Please keep me updated and if you need more info for who to report this dr. to when i go to clinicals i'll ask my instructor tomorrow when i see her. :grouphug:


----------



## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Office of the Long Term Care Ombudsman for Los Angeles County. They investigate this type of thing. Abuse of caregivers too. What a terrible situation. Where in So. Cal? PM me if you think it may be near me.

Los Angeles County - Long-Term Care Community Connection for Seniors and Disabled


----------



## emmy123 (Jan 22, 2012)

I am so sorry to hear of this. Did you find her? The long term care ombudsman is a great resource. I am familiar with the laws and contacts in Virginia but not Cal. I do know that it is federal law that she cannot be held against her will. One thing that might be interesting is to check and see if the Dr has any ownership or connection to the nursing home. I know I would be furious!

As for the government rating...the way they are computed is not a good indication of care. It is always best to visit and look for yourself- with and without appointments and at different times. I speak from over 34 years of health care experience. I have known some mediocre centers with 5 star ratings. I would be wary of a one star but a three would not indicate bad care and in some cases a very good center could have a 2. Best of luck to you, it sounds like you only want the very best for your aunt.


----------



## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

I am worn out. I will be back tomorrow to do whatever needs to be done, but for tonight I just need to get some sleep and, I hope, some peace. Why oh why, is it just so hard to leave your shattered body behind and go on? If we made our dogs suffer through the tortures that our human loved ones must endure, we would be considered cruel and heartless. We love our dear little dogs so much that when their lives are full of pain and suffering, we hold them close and kiss them while they drift off to sleep. Yet our human loved ones must continue to suffer, must endure humiliation, must live every single moment in fear and regret...why?


----------



## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Sylie said:


> I am worn out. I will be back tomorrow to do whatever needs to be done, but for tonight I just need to get some sleep and, I hope, some peace. Why oh why, is it just so hard to leave your shattered body behind and go on? If we made our dogs suffer through the tortures that our human loved ones must endure, we would be considered cruel and heartless. We love our dear little dogs so much that when their lives are full of pain and suffering, we hold them close and kiss them while they drift off to sleep. Yet our human loved ones must continue to suffer, must endure humiliation, must live every single moment in fear and regret...why?


Sylvia - I'm so sorry. I absolutely agree with you. When my mom was sick I was her advocate and I swear I had to be near her like a buzzard to make sure they did everything they were supposed to for her the whole time she was hospitalized. It's a horrible "reward" for living a long life. Hope you find your aunt, get her where you want her to be, an definitely report this. (((hugs)))


----------



## mom of 2 fluffs (Jul 16, 2011)

Sylie:
I am very sorry to hear about the treatment your aunt has been given. What if you went to the police & reported her as a missing person? (In OK, it is called a Silver Alert when an elderly patient is missing) I know that seems, far fetched, but it sure would make someone answer for your aunt's whereabouts & the way this situation was handled. When my son was born with special needs, I had my ob/gyn tell me to keep fighting for his health care & that the squeaky wheel gets the oil first. I have several other ideas if you want to pm me. I pray guardian angels surround your aunt & keep her safe until you are reunited. Again, sorry for the mess and pain this has inflicted on you.


----------



## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

Oh I am BEYOND angry reading this!!!!! I spent a ton of years working with the geriatric population (and specialize in Dementia care). This Dr. is WAY out of bounds and I wish I were there to let him know that! Patients and their families have rights and he just clearly violated them. I know your primary goal is to locate and protect your Aunt, and I hope that you are able to do that very quickly. Please do not forget to file a WRITTEN complaint with the hospital and have an Ombudsman pursue this, so that this Dr. is clear that such violations are not to be tolerated.

Part of the Patients Bill of Rights:
*The Patient’s Bill of Rights*

While these new rights from 2010 are taking effect, older Bills of Rights still apply. Here you will find a summary of the Consumer Bill of Rights and Responsibilities that was adopted by the US Advisory Commission on Consumer Protection and Quality in the Health Care Industry in 1998. 
This Bill of Rights also applies to the insurance plans offered to federal employees. Many other health insurance plans and facilities have also adopted these values. Even Medicare and Medicaid stand by many of them. There are 8 key areas that the Bill of Rights addresses.
*Information for patients*

You have the right to accurate and easily-understood information about your health plan, health care professionals, and health care facilities. If you speak another language, have a physical or mental disability, or just don’t understand something, help should be given so you can make informed health care decisions.
*Choice of providers and plans*

You have the right to choose health care providers who can give you high-quality health care when you need it.


----------



## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

I hope everything is OK with your aunt today. We were very fortunate with my mom in that her doctor made sure my sister and I knew everything that was happening. 

Ombudsman is a great resource for you.


----------



## TLR (Nov 13, 2011)

Oh Sylvia that is just terrible. I can not believe they didn't contact you. Are you listed as her next of kin? I am so sorry you are going through this and hope you can get it solved today. I would definitely have this investigated and file a complaint.


----------



## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

I can't believe they took your aunt without anyone's permission!!!!! I hope you and your son can locate her, and whoever authorized this will be held accountable !!!I wonder what your Aunt is thinking at this time? Is she cognizant?


----------



## maltese#1fan (Feb 20, 2012)

I am so sorry for everything you are going through. In addition to the other advice you have already received, you can also contact the Department of Aging. They should be a good resource to you as well. California Department of Aging - State of California


----------



## Zoe's Mom88 (Apr 25, 2011)

So sorry to hear your going through that agony. I have worked in a nursing home for years and you should definately contact the hospital administrator immediately with your concerns, they need to be held accountable for what has happened and should have very well known where she was sent off to. Also, her doctor who discharged her without family knowledge should be contacted for letting her leave without the family being notified. You can also contact the Department of State with a complaint. That is what we do here in NY, and I am sure its the same in California.

Hope you don't have a stressful day with it today. Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

This is by far one of the most horrific situations that I have ever heard or read!! Everyone else has given you some very excellent advice and I am sure that you will be following up on many suggestions today after you have hopefully had some rest. The Hospital should take full responsibility for releasing your Aunt and there is absolutely no excuse for how they handled the placement of your Aunt to a location that they refuse to make available to their relatives. And your Aunt's Caregiver/s are also responsible as well and should be made aware that could face serious consequences as to how they handled this situation too.

Keeping you and your Aunt in my thoughts and prayers that she will be found ASAP and this will all be resolved immediately.


----------



## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

So worried for you. Have you found her yet? Sending prayers and positive thoughts your way.


----------



## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

thanks you one and all for your concern. We located her last night, but I don't know what to do next. It seems that it is normal procedure for hospitals to send elderly patients off to another facility. I have found to places that are highly rated and closer for Nick, but they don't have a room yet. 

I'm just too worn out to even concentrate on typing...just thanks to you wonderful ladies for holding my hand.


----------



## Nervusrek (Apr 17, 2012)

Glad to hear she's safe. Now YOU get some rest!!!


----------



## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

Glad you found her safe. I hope you will be able to take a deep breathe now. As far as what to do next, it may be that this facility is in the practice of relocating the elderly without proper communication, consent etc, but it is far from legal. *See the Patients Bill of Rights. This type of action ranks up there with BYB and Mills in my opinion  . They cannot just herd people around as they see fit. If your family (or the emergency contact on file) did receive a consult with the staff prior to placement, then her rights were clearly violated. I would contact your local Ombudsman to prevent this unfortunate situation from occurring to you or someone else again.


----------



## Patsy Heck (Jun 10, 2011)

If in fact what they did was illegal. What about an attorney?


----------



## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, it isn't as bad as I thought at first. The person at the hospital mixed up the name...Not WWWWW Terrace, but WWWW Gardens. It is a facility for people who don't need hospital services, but are not well enough to return home, and it is a decent place. Now I am trying to find a nursing home for her when she is ready. It is not easy. There are lots and lots of assisted living places, but now full scale nursing care.
I"ll just keep plugging away, this is just life and something almost everybody has to handle sooner or later.


----------



## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

Sylie said:


> Well, it isn't as bad as I thought at first. The person at the hospital mixed up the name...Not WWWWW Terrace, but WWWW Gardens. It is a facility for people who don't need hospital services, but are not well enough to return home, and it is a decent place. Now I am trying to find a nursing home for her when she is ready. It is not easy. There are lots and lots of assisted living places, but not full scale nursing care.
> I"ll just keep plugging away, this is just life and something almost everybody has to handle sooner or later.


I doubt that it was illegal or a violation. This is a highly highly respected hospital. For all I know it was noted in the admission papers, but Nick was too anxious to read it. oops, I just meant to edit, not quote myself...duh.


----------



## Patsy Heck (Jun 10, 2011)

Glad it is working out. I went through this with my Mom. The social worker at the nursing facility was of great help in placing her. She was able to pick three she would like and the first with a bed was where she went.


----------



## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Sylie said:


> thanks you one and all for your concern. We located her last night, but I don't know what to do next. It seems that it is normal procedure for hospitals to send elderly patients off to another facility. I have found to places that are highly rated and closer for Nick, but they don't have a room yet.
> 
> I'm just too worn out to even concentrate on typing...just thanks to you wonderful ladies for holding my hand.


 
Sylvia,I am so sorry, I am just seeing this. To my knowledge, NO they do not have the right, at all without consulting family first.

It is so draining, so get your rest, and know we and I are her for you.

I love you more than life itself.


----------



## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Sorry to hear all you are going through. Pleased she has been found and is ok. It is hard to find places that you feel comfortable with that aren't getting on for 10K a month. :blink: I don't know what it is like in the states, though compared to here. 

I understand, truly I do, we are going through the same thing. My FIL died a couple of months ago and we have been trying to manage MIL care while looking for a better solution for her. She has moderate dementia and is 88. We currently have her in an apt. in our building, but it is taking all our time, crazy expense and emotional toll on looking after her. So we too are trying to find a place we like for her. The other day we found she couldn't turn the radio off so she cut the power cord with scissors...... so not a safe environment for her


----------



## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Sylie said:


> Well, it isn't as bad as I thought at first. The person at the hospital mixed up the name...Not WWWWW Terrace, but WWWW Gardens. It is a facility for people who don't need hospital services, but are not well enough to return home, and it is a decent place. Now I am trying to find a nursing home for her when she is ready. It is not easy. There are lots and lots of assisted living places, but now full scale nursing care.
> I"ll just keep plugging away, this is just life and something almost everybody has to handle sooner or later.


 
Sylvia, when you can, contact the social worker at the hospital. they can reccomend, short-term care, which will get her strong enough to her potential.


Love you.


----------



## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Oh man, you've been through the ringer! :w00t: I'm glad your Aunt has been found....and I hope the right place for her to live is found also. I know about the high price care givers, I had one for my mom....she always talked to me like she was the best, then fought with my daughter and sister (I paid her....). I even had to pay someone to come in and clean the house! When I finally fired her and hired another woman, she called the new care taker and threatened to have her killed!!!!:blink:


----------



## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Sylvia - my MIL was in a facility that had all steps- independent, assisted living and nursing all under one big roof. And patients could easily go from one to another when needs arise. When she had surgery she came home to rehab and nursing and when she was well she went back to independant and later to assisted. I think it was run at one time by a nationwide chain but was lovely and had the feel of an apt or a good hotel. Good luck!


----------



## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

It's not illegal if she is making her own decisions. If she can't make her own decisions, then who is her legally designated POA? If it's you Sylie, then they have broken the law. Does she have a Health Care Advance Directive or a Living Will? In other words, who is the responsible decision maker for this patient? If it is her, then they don't have to contact anyone, just the patient herself. And as a matter of fact, if she is her own decision maker, they couldn't tell anyone where she was to protect her HIPPA rights, unless she gave permission for the family member to have that information.


----------



## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

pammy4501 said:


> It's not illegal if she is making her own decisions. If she can't make her own decisions, then who is her legally designated POA? If it's you Sylie, then they have broken the law. Does she have a Health Care Advance Directive or a Living Will? In other words, who is the responsible decision maker for this patient? If it is her, then they don't have to contact anyone, just the patient herself. And as a matter of fact, if she is her own decision maker, they couldn't tell anyone where she was to protect her HIPPA rights, unless she gave permission for the family member to have that information.


She does have an advanced directive. Nick has certain powers of attorney, but I do not know to what extend. I am no longer angry that the hospital transferred her to a skilled nursing facility. It may not be the best thing, but it is the way of our "FOR PROFIT" medical care industry. As I said before, they probably stated in the admission papers that they could transfer her. The most terrible part was that we couldn't find her, because somebody mixed up the name. Nick eventually found out where she was and went there.

So, today they called him to get his permission to give her Seroquel, because she was "yelling and non-cooperative." Nick did a quick search and found that it is a drug for manic episodes for people with bi-polar disorder. "Do not give to elderly dementia patients, as it may cause death."

I am totally despondent, we just can't fight this monster, called "health care." We are all in big trouble, and there isn't a resolution when government can't get out from under profiteers and people start screaming socialism when anybody even talks about it. 

If I get sick I am going to a veterinarian.


----------



## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

I am not quite sure as to what you mean regarding "certain POA". If Nick has a POA, it should be for everything, unless the laws are different in CA. Nick really has to check that out to make sure that he is the one who is in charge of your Aunt's wellbeing and is allowed to make all of the decisions on her behalf.


----------



## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

I just don't know. I guess if he has POA it is in all regards. He has it because he is nearby and I am not. Nickolas loves his Auntie with all his heart and soul...and I love him likewise. However, he just cannot let go. He is thinking that somehow she will get better. I only hope that she will be released from the torture of a body in constant pain and a mind that only poses confusion. If I were one to ask for prayers from my friends here, I would ask you to pray that my aunt can go home...not to her house...to her maker.


----------



## Deborah (Jan 8, 2006)

I know for a fact that elderly patients are sent to a hospital if they cannot handle there medical needs. The hospital will treat her until the situation is stable. Then if she is not stable enough to go back to her home the hospital does send them someplace else. In other words not sick enough for the hospital but not well enough to be sent back to the nursing home. I just went through this with my mother-in-law. They are usually sent to a place that works with the hospital and accepts her insurance.
Not knowing where she was is another story! You should have been told.
In some situations the patient may have to be rushed to the hospital and they (Dr)make that decision simply because there is not enough time to get a hold of a patient's relative or care giver. 
Again they should have known exactly where she was. I would file a complaint about the Dr, and hospital. My mother-in-law lived in San Francisco Bay Area and was sent to the hospital. Once stable she had to go to hospice. 
I am so happy you finally found her! My head is still spinning over their nonsense.


----------



## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

We, Dh and I are going down on Friday. We will have to take the dogs, because our pet sitter is booked up, but she can manage the time to come in to care for the birds. I am so tired. But I need to stay strong. My darling aunt helped me when I was struggling and now it is my turn. I will come through.


----------

