# Breeders who own champion dogs



## RAINDROP (Jan 7, 2012)

Hello Everyone,
I am new to this forum, and I am surprised after reading some of your posts to learn how breeders who show their dogs to their championship is held in such high esteem by some of you.

You have NO IDEA what goes on behind the scenes. I do. I once showed two dogs, and was privy to all the stuff that happens. I am not saying all breeders, but quite a lot of them:

FOR YOUR INFORMATION

Lots of breeders who are showing, lock their dogs in cages so that their hair cannot get broken, because they are too lazy to wrap every other day.
The cages are wire with no floor but mesh for the dogs to pee and deficate.
They put pee pads around the cages for the boys who lift their legs so that their floors won't get peed on. Dogs are let out maybe two times per week. Some of them live in worse conditions than the puppymills we all see. When the time is nearing for showing, they are bleached, because of the urine stains on their feet, and the tearstaing around their eyes. Some show breeders tatoo noses and under eyes so that the dogs have a wonderful eye liner and black nose pigmentation- ouch, (how woud you like that done to you?) As soon as some of their dogs get their championship,
before they leave the showgrounds or indoor spaces, they take they dog to the R.V's and shave them down to the skin, then it is time for breeding, and breeding, and breeding. I suggest you pay close attention to the Animal Channels, and you would be educated as to how some show breeders really operate. There are lots of programmes that showcase
"the show breeder"

Of course there is the other kind of show breeder who takes good care of their dogs, and let them out often for fresh air, and wrap and rewrap their coats every other day. But how many of them are kissed and loved and told how special they are to mommy? (you guess)


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## crystallynn (Dec 16, 2011)

You are absolutely right..I personally have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. Thank you for this post. I think if I were looking at a breeder, I would look into other areas besides just the fact that they show. 

I would think that a good reference from someone knowlegable and that you trust would go a long way in choosing a breeder. Not JUST the fact that they have a champion.


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

What country are you from, Raindrop?


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I've been behind the scenes and not seen what you have to that extent. Yes, they are kept in pens while at the shows and yes, they are usually cut down after they get their championships but that may take weeks to get AKC verification after their last show so it's not often you see them cut down immediately. As for pads around the pen of male dogs, I can understand that since unaltered dogs usually hike. Not all dogs need rewrapping EVERY day. Not all dogs even need wrapping. I doubt a good show dog would do well in the ring if never let out for excercise and socialization.
Just my two cents.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

We support *ethical* show breeders. I know for certain than MiMi's breeder loves her dogs and that they all live inside her house. I also know that she has only a few litters a year. I know that she spend time with all of her dogs and regards them as her children. I can't account for what other people do to win a ribbon, but I know my baby came from a loving nurturing environment.


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

I'm very aware of how SOME breeders care for the dogs at home but what you describe may be a show breeder but not a reputable one. 
In my experience, the vast majority of show breeders care so much about the dogs.


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## RAINDROP (Jan 7, 2012)

How many vast majorities of show breeder's homes have you visited, or have seen where they keep their showdogs? (their home, or kennel behind
their home)?

Look up Hollybelle maltese. This breeder was well respected in the show community. Had awesome dogs. Look it up and see what happened


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## RAINDROP (Jan 7, 2012)

I agree Cosy, but these dogs are kept in crates, not only at shows, but all the time when they are at home. Yes, they should be let out at least on a deck one at a time for fresh air.

I am so passionate, because I see my dogs as my babies, and dogs should not be kept in cages. They should be given love and attention and affection.


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

RAINDROP said:


> How many vast majorities of show breeder's homes have you visited, or have seen where they keep their showdogs? (their home, or kennel behind their home)?


I used to show my dog(only for a year) but have had friends who show their dogs long before I got mine. I have been to many breeders homes and seen where their dogs are kept. 
I am in Ireland but it's the same here.


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

O.K. The point has been established that not all show breeders are reputable . When I begin to look for another Maltese, I will go to a show breeder. I will ask a lot of questions, ask for references, visit the facilities, and probably make a pest of myself to the breeder in the process. How will we acquire a dog that is as close to the standard as can be? How will we be confident about the health of the dog? Who can we turn to to ask questions about the pup that was purchased? There are good and bad in every profession in life , from doctors to ministers to even childcare providers! I've done the backyard breeder and puppy mill route. I was ignorant about these types of things. I think it's important to do your homework before purchasing a puppy! No I will never show my dog's but I hope that I am informed enough to make an intelligent decision where I purchase my next puppy from.


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## RudyRoo (Jun 24, 2011)

RAINDROP said:


> I agree Cosy, but these dogs are kept in crates, not only at shows, but all the time when they are at home. Yes, they should be let out at least on a deck one at a time for fresh air.
> 
> I am so passionate, because I see my dogs as my babies, and dogs should not be kept in cages. They should be given love and attention and affection.


I don't think you will get any arguments from this community that our dogs are our babies, and I also don't think you would find one person on this forum that would disagree with you that the treatment of the show dogs as you described is not something we would promote. If you have read the previous posts, you should be aware that we only support ethical and responsible breeding and showing, and I would absolutely agree that what you described is not ethical. Forgive me if I am wrong, but I get the feeling from the tone of your posts that you are looking for an argument. I just don't think you are going to find one here.


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## Aarianne (Jul 22, 2005)

Your post implies that you believe that most show breeders do not care adequately for their animals. Why are you trying to paint all show breeders with the same brush? Are you a non-show breeder? 

Many who become involved in showing dogs are dog lovers first and not so consumed with winning ribbons that they would neglect their dogs. I'm sure that happens to the odd breeder unfortunately, but your post seems way off the mark implying that being involved in showing dogs turns most of these dog lovers into ribbon-hungry animal abusers or in other cases into breeders who provide the basic necessities but no love. Kind of an off the wall suggestion when you think about it, isn't it?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Aarianne said:


> Your post implies that you believe that most show breeders do not care adequately for their animals. Why are you trying to paint all show breeders with the same brush? Are you a non-show breeder?
> 
> Many who become involved in showing dogs are dog lovers first and not so consumed with winning ribbons that they would neglect their dogs. I'm sure that happens to the odd breeder unfortunately, but your post seems way off the mark implying that being involved in showing dogs turns most of these dog lovers into ribbon-hungry animal abusers or in other cases into breeders who provide the basic necessities but no love. Kind of an off the wall suggestion when you think about it, isn't it?


If you read Raindrop's first post you will get the answers to your questions. Raindrop joined SM to defend a breeder several SM'ers pointed out didn't show her Maltese.

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/56-breeders/116298-help-good-breeder-yes-no.html#post1981083

While the OP raises some legitimate concerns about how some show breeders keep their dogs, I think it's apparent that she has an agenda.


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## RudyRoo (Jun 24, 2011)

Ladysmom said:


> If you read Raindrop's first post you will get the answers to your questions. Raindrop joined SM to defend a breeder several SM'ers pointed out didn't show her Maltese.
> 
> http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/56-breeders/116298-help-good-breeder-yes-no.html#post1981083
> 
> While the OP raises some legitimate concerns about how some show breeders keep their dogs, I think it's apparent that she has an agenda.



Ah ha! That's a shame. It does make sense now though. I was so confused as to why the OP would make the assumption that the SM community would disagree that the conditions she described in her original post were in fact unacceptable.


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## Aarianne (Jul 22, 2005)

Yep, it makes perfect sense now. Thanks!


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

I went back and re-read that thread. Raindrop enters with this (copy/paste): To all those people who posted those horrible and threatening stuff about Kasamile Maltese.

But NOBODY had posted horrible and certainly not *threatening *stuff about Kasamile Maltese. Most of us remarked on how beautiful the puppies were. Some of us said we would not rule out this breeder, but would want more info.

Raindrop, I am sure that if we could see your little one we would all praise her beauty. No need to defend your friend/self/or breeder, by casting dispersions on others.


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## RAINDROP (Jan 7, 2012)

I notice that one one made any comment on my post about good breeder?? bad breeder?? help??


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## RAINDROP (Jan 7, 2012)

I notice that no one made any comment on my post on good breeder? bad breeder? help?


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## RAINDROP (Jan 7, 2012)

Then you are missing something if you don't think those comments were
horrible and threatening.


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## crystallynn (Dec 16, 2011)

As I said, I dont know much about the show world, but in my mind, it would make more sense that a dog that is happy and well taken care of would be more apt to show better. Im sure there are dogs that are mistreated in the business, but I would think it would be an anomaly if they lasted long as title winning dogs. If I were looking at breeders today, the fact they show would be important to me after all Ive learned, but not necessarily a decidin
g factr and nothing the ONLY factor.


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## RAINDROP (Jan 7, 2012)

What I don't understand, is why we women, are so quick to slam and make disparaging remarks about each other when we don't know the facts. I say, do your homework and get the facts before you report on what you heard, and go straight to the source. I cannot help but think that if this forum were made up of men, lots of stuff would not get posted, because they are more rational thinkers, and not so quick to jump to conclusions without getting the facts. (now you all can slam me for making this comment. no worries)


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

Are you Canadian, Raindrop?


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## RudyRoo (Jun 24, 2011)

RAINDROP said:


> What I don't understand, is why we women, are so quick to *slam and make disparaging remarks *about each other when we don't know the facts. I say, d*o your homework and get the facts before you report on what you heard*, and go straight to the source. I cannot help but think that if this forum were made up of men, lots of stuff would not get posted, because they are more rational thinkers, and not so quick to *jump to conclusions* without getting the facts. (now you all can slam me for making this comment. no worries)





RAINDROP said:


> Then you are missing something if you don't think those comments were
> *horrible and threatening*.


Now I am confused again. I don't see any slamming or threatening going on in the other thread, and I also don't see hearsay. A member asked for opinions and was provided with those. I also don't think that any conclusions were made in that thread. In fact, it appears to be the opposite, that people were left a little confused why such beautiful dogs would NOT be shown. 

Perhaps this is one of those things where the tone cannot be conveyed through typing. IMHO, this is a thread that should be closed because I feel as if the only horrible, threatening, and disparaging comments have been from the OP.


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## Green444 (Jul 2, 2010)

I haven't been on this site in a while because I am not actively looking for a dog. After what I have learned, when I do look, it will probably be a rescue. 
Several years ago, I wanted a Maltese. I read many posts on this forum. There was a breeder who was favored here, who showed her dogs. She shipped dogs to people in several states, from what I learned on this forum. I learned that what was posted here was far from what was going on. I visited her home, and I took a look around, down a road, behind her house. I learned that there was a kennel in the back where shaved dogs were in little runs outside a little house in the cold. They could go in the building, but it wasn't where I wanted my dog to come from. I doubt the "breeder" was out there spending much time with them, as the building was some portable thing that didn't look that inviting. There were grown up abandoned runs around it which showed a lot of spaces for dogs.
Not only did this woman show her dog, and have a lot of champions, but she also had shown for others. I later saw pictures of the horrible shape the dog she showed for one woman was returned to her. These pictures were circulated on another site, and I called the owner of the dog, who confirmed the abuse. But, surprise of surprise was that only a few years before she "got reputable" by showing she was selling her dogs on the side of the road outside the mall in Nashville, and she had multiple breeds then.
This is a breeder in Tennessee, not Hollybell. She isn't much different. She just didn't get get caught, like that horrible Hollybell woman.


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