# Training/Socialization



## LoveLucy (Mar 18, 2012)

Hi everybody: Looking for some advice about my rescue dog Lucy who is about 3-4 years old and I've had for about 2 months. (This might get a little long because I want to explain the problem as best I can.) She is so perfect--with people. She loves us, she's even good with my 2-year-old granddaughter. She walks very nicely on her leash and loves to go for walks--UNTIL she sees another dog! When she sees or approaches another dog she starts barking to various degrees. Sometimes (usually with little, calm dogs) she approaches excitedly, but gets in the dog's face and barks, or circles around the dog and barks. During those times it SEEMS like she wants to play, but just doesn't understand that she can't do that by running in circles around the dog and barking in the dog's face.
Other times (usually with big dogs, or small excited dogs) she will go really nuts. Barking aggressively, growling, trying to lunge at the dog, etc. 
She is currently in Pet Smart obedience class and amazingly she has managed to get through 2 class sessions with other dogs. The second session she barked quite a bit at a small dog who was growling at a German Shepard. The instructor put Lucy in "time out" (put her in a small room attached to the training room for a few seconds until she calmed down) TWICE during the session. Kind of embarrasing, but I'm too old to get embarrased any more. lol
Anyway, that instructor suggested that I try to avoid encounters with other dogs on our walks because Lucy just isn't ready for it. I do this, and we're good. If we see another dog approaching and she starts barking, I say "Let's Go" and turn around and go the other way. But occassionally an encounter with a dog is unavoidable. Also sometimes she gets really riled up just seeing a dog from a distance. When this happens, I just firmly walk her away, saying "Uh-uh, let's go." Sometimes she gets really snarly, and I practically have to lift-walk her (with her harness) to get her away. Sometimes I can get her attention once we have moved away somewhat, and get her to sit and calm down--but not until the dog is out of sight.
My amateur dog-psychology interprets her barking as excitement, and her crazy-snarly barking as fear. Or maybe it's all fear. It COULD be aggression, but I just don't think so. I actually took her to a dog park once (yeah, I know--smart). She LOVED running around and even seemed to like the other dogs, but had no manners whatsoever, and kept barking at the dogs. So I left.
I don't think I want to take her to a dog park again--the "small dogs" area just isn't small enough I don't think, and I'm afraid she will get hurt. However, I think she and I would both be a lot happier if she could go for walks and be around other dogs without getting like this. She just seems so distressed. I should mention that she also seems quite nervous at night when we walk and looks from side to side and starts at every noise. Once she has encountered a dog, she is all riled up and will sometimes even bark at people. I'm thinking a lot of this might be due to the fact that she was a stray for at least some amount of time. ALSO, as another piece to the puzzle, I take Lucy to my daughter's house once a week and she seems to tolerate HER dog (a smallish VERY CALM doxie mix) fairly well. They even almost, kind of play.  We first introduced them by taking them for several walks together. Bringing Arlo HERE did not work out well at all--Lucy went nuts. 
What I'd like to do is get her some individual training, or actually initially, individual evaluation. I looked into Bark Busters, but it looks to me as if they use that "alpha" system of training, which I'm not a fan of. I'm thinking about a company called SmartyPaws. They say they use a reward-based system.
So....if anybody has been able to stay with this whole thing...any suggestions? (I live in the Las Vegas, NV area.)
Thanks for any help anybody has to offer.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Home - Her education is impressive

dog training

The most common reason for this behavior is fear aggression, typically due to a lack of socialization with other dogs during critical phases of development. Occasionally it is due to a previous bad experience. The most common treatment is a systematic process of desensitizing the dog at a comfortable distance, working up to walking past the dog. Flooding the dog in a Petsmart obedience class is probably not helping things along.


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## LoveLucy (Mar 18, 2012)

jmm said:


> Home - Her education is impressive
> 
> dog training
> 
> The most common reason for this behavior is fear aggression, typically due to a lack of socialization with other dogs during critical phases of development. Occasionally it is due to a previous bad experience. The most common treatment is a systematic process of desensitizing the dog at a comfortable distance, working up to walking past the dog. Flooding the dog in a Petsmart obedience class is probably not helping things along.


Thank you! Actually, I was hoping you would reply because it was an old thread in which you were giving somebody advice that originally brought me to this site. I can't believe that I never saw either of those places in my dozens of google searches. The first one says "now offering services in LV"; the second one seems to be a referral site. But I will contact both of them. I really need somebody who will help me get to the root of her problem, not just rote "obedience.
So, do you think I should just skip the rest of this class at Pet Smart? If it's going to do more harm than good, I don't see any reason to continue it. I think she would benefit a lot more from individual sessions. Actually, I had met the trainer at this particular PetSmart and she seemed very good and knowledgeable. I originally called to schedule individual sessions, but she said that we should "try" the group session first. I have pretty much figured that I'll finish the rest of the class (4 weeks remaining), but that I was going to have to look elsewhere to deal with my real problems. I mean, I see no sense in "loose leash" training Lucy when she walks fairly well on a leash until she sees a dog. Her problem isn't walking on a leash--it's how she reacts to dogs. Do you think I should just quit? Also, between now and getting help, how do you think I should consistently handle these incidents? Is what I'm doing (avoiding when possible and just walking her past it when I can't) OK, or do you have other suggestions? I want to be consistent.


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## StevieB (Feb 2, 2012)

Hi, Gail! I will preface this by saying in no way shape or form am I a dog trainer or behaviorist, but I am really good at Google! And I have the same problem as you. My dog is a one year old rescue. He walks great on a leash, and LOVES his walks. And all is peaceful and wonderful - until we see another dog. Then he goes nuts, walking on his hind legs and balancing/pulling against the harness, barking, snarling, howling, whining. Now, he LOVES other dogs and does great at the dog park (we love the dog park) and I've never seen him act aggressively or fearful to another dog, so I feel like he just wants to play so bad and just has horrible manners, but I could be totally wrong about that. Regardless, it's totally embarrassing. What I started doing is carrying a little bag of training treats with me (they're the tiny chewy super tasty treats you get at Petco so they can gobble them up quick in case you're not sure what those are). And when I notice another dog coming I don't change anything in myself until he notices and starts getting riled up. I've kind of taught him when I say "Look" he looks at me and he gets a treat. And he also knows sit and down. So instead of dragging past the other dog I've been making him sit and watch while the other dog passes (usually I have to tap him on the butt b/c he's not paying attention) and right when he sits (and this means he's also not barking or whining cuz he's too busy sitting) he gets a treat and I just keep doing this over and over until the dog passes. So he still is all excited about the dog but he goes back and forth between that and focusing on me. What I have noticed is that he is barking and whining less and less each time (unless it's a super excited dog) and it's taking him a lot less time to recover. It used to be that he'd go on FOREVER, but now he kind of refocuses on me pretty quickly like, "Oh, dog's gone and I will get a treat if I look at (my beautiful) Mom". (Had to add the beautiful because he does look at me like I'm an angel from Heaven  Anyway, I could be doing something totally wrong but it's working for us and maybe is something you could try until you get professional help. And to go with what Jackie said, and this is what The Dog Whisperer says (which I have a weird obsession with right now), it's something they need to be desensitized to and he suggests having friends with calm dogs just walk past you over and over again. But IMHO, I can't see how stopping taking your dog for walks would be helpful! Those walks are good for both fluffs and their mamas! 

Oh and I also started using a Gentle Leader which is the collar with a nose band. LOVE it, but they're not for everyone I'm sure. He walks great on a leash until he gets excited, then he just pulls pulls pulls and starts hacking b/c he's choking himself and I just can't stand it. He doesn't pull at all with this, also affords me a little more control when we see other dogs. Anyway, good luck! If you find any good tips, please share as I'm in your same boat!


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## LoveLucy (Mar 18, 2012)

Thanks, Celeta. Actually it's just reassuring to hear that somebody else is having a similar problem. When I'm walking Lucy and she acts like that people just shake their heads, like "what's wrong with HER?" Especially, I find the "big dog" people kind of look down like "Oh gawd...another yappy little dog annoying my 'oh-so-well-behaved' big dog. We even have some people in the park who insist on walking their big dogs off leash, presumably to show off how well behaved they are. I'm kidding. I think. :innocent:

I'm going to look into getting some behavioral help for Lucy. I just don't want her to be so scared. She does one other wacky thing--this one in the house. When we would give her a chew stick or anything that she thought was "premium" I guess, she would walk around whining looking for a place to hide it. Now she has a little fleece squeaky bone shaped toy that she has become attached to. Usually she plays with it--she loves fetch, but then sometimes she puts it in her mouth and walks around whining, looking for a place to hide it. I'm considering "permanently" hiding it from her because it's apparently stressing her out. She's a funny little dog, for sure. I guess I'll always wonder what her "back story" is. One of my previous dogs, Gladie, was 1-1/2 when we got her and was a stray also. She had little issues also and I always wondered what her previous life was like. A couple of years before she died I found out one thing--somebody had shot her with a pellet gun. When I had xrays done because she had back problems, they showed me a pellet embedded in her hip.  Poor thing. No wonder she was so scared of loud banging noises--July 4th just about did her in every year....
That's the thing with rescues, there are so many unknowns. You just have to do your best from where they are when you get them.
Thanks for responding. Let me know how your little dog does, and I'll do the same.


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## StevieB (Feb 2, 2012)

Well I just say when the Big Dog people give you "The Look" you just take comfort in the fact that your dog is so much cuter and snugglier than theirs! My boy was never a stray, he came from a BYB greeder that dumped him and his litter mate at the pound when they were 10 months old and I guess too old to sell. So I do know he had constant canine companionship, but I'm sure not much human companionship. He has a few quirks but all in all I can't complain. It sounds like your girl has had a rougher go of it and I think it would be really helpful and comforting to get a good behaviorist in your corner. I'm sure they can help resolve her fear issues and just think what a relief that will be for her! I'm so glad you're willing to do what it takes and give that sweet baby a chance. She'll pay you back in spades, but you already know that

On a side note, my mother in law "acquired" a dog (or he acquired her) that had been shot at with a bebe gun and 4th of July does him in, too. Amazing how they just never forget.


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## StevieB (Feb 2, 2012)

Oh and FYI - we start obedience classes in a couple of weeks. Fingers crossed that it's not a total bust!


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## LoveLucy (Mar 18, 2012)

JMM--JUst thought I'd let you know that if all goes well, I'm in the process of hiring Crista Coppola from Dog and Co. to come and evaluate/work with Lucy. In the meantime I dropped her from the PetSmart class (they actually gave me a full pro-rated credit toward individual training sessions). 
Thanks for finding her for me--I'm very impressed with her education and especially of the fact that she previously worked with aspca and actually helped with the evaluation of those poor Vick dogs. If she can work with them, surely she can help my little Lucy. And teach me how to help her.

Gail


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## LoveLucy (Mar 18, 2012)

StevieB said:


> Oh and FYI - we start obedience classes in a couple of weeks. Fingers crossed that it's not a total bust!


Yes, I'd love to hear how it goes. I decided the whole "10 dogs in a little room" was too stressful for Lucy (AND me...). Good luck! I hope it goes better for you. But your dog is under a year, right? He'll probably be in puppy class which will be much easier.


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