# Hep...new food is a no go...Fromm Grain Free?



## Gongjoo (Dec 9, 2012)

So apparanty Khloee does not like her new food, which was the Fromm 4 Star Duck and Sweet Potato. I'm positive her decision to not eat is not driven by health matters...she has appetite for anything else, but turns her nose to the new food. She was doing great with the trantision until this week when we were up to 3 tbl new food, 1 tbl old food per serving. 

So looks like I may need to try a new food. I was looking at the Fromm 4 Star Grain Free....does anyone feed this? Is the protein content too high?

Or, if anyone has suggestions to another dry food comparable to Fromm in quality and nutirtion, I would be more than happy to entertain any and all suggestions!!!


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## mdbflorida (Feb 28, 2013)

We use Canine Caviar, and both really like it and they are doing well on it.


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## babycake7 (Jan 30, 2012)

I have been feeding Bella Fromm 4 Star Grain Free for about 6 months or so and she LOVES it. I rotate the flavors and there is not one (I think there are five flavors total) that she does not love. She's done great on it IMHO - her tear stains have cleared up (I also religiously clean her face), her weight is good and stable, and her poops are firm but not hard or dry but not messy either. (Sorry TMI) She is also very "regular".


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

When I use dry kibble, my choice is Fromm- the Game Bird recipe is a hit here. I have also used the salmon tunalini and just bought a bag of the new Pork and peas recipe. I usually top the kibble (or any meal) with fresh veggies. If Khloee doesn't like fish flavors, I'd try the Game bird recipe as a grain free option first. Hope this helps! 


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Sometimes even those dogs that are not picky eaters have a food flavor they simply do not like. I can't tell from your original post, but have you tried other flavors of the Fromm's that she likes but it's the Duck & Sweet Potato she doesn't seem to like? Or are you going from a completely different brand to Fromm's and the Duck & Sweet Potato is the very first one you've tried? If so, what had she been eating previously?


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

I feed the grain free Fromm's - all the kids love it.

What a couple of mine are not liking is the raw medallions that I've been putting in their grain free Dr. Harvey's dinners.


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## Gongjoo (Dec 9, 2012)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Sometimes even those dogs that are not picky eaters have a food flavor they simply do not like. I can't tell from your original post, but have you tried other flavors of the Fromm's that she likes but it's the Duck & Sweet Potato she doesn't seem to like? Or are you going from a completely different brand to Fromm's and the Duck & Sweet Potato is the very first one you've tried? If so, what had she been eating previously?


Hi Crystal! Khloee was previously on Fromm but it was their gold puppy food. The Duck and Sweet Potato was her first life stages food since I wanted to transition her off of the puppy food now. 

I considered getting some other flavors of the 4-star grain inclusive because I love Fromm, but I was afraid the Grain Free was too high in protein...but it seems like a lot of SM members' fluffs do well on the Grain Free!! I learn something new evryday!


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## Gongjoo (Dec 9, 2012)

hoaloha said:


> When I use dry kibble, my choice is Fromm- the Game Bird recipe is a hit here. I have also used the salmon tunalini and just bought a bag of the new Pork and peas recipe. I usually top the kibble (or any meal) with fresh veggies. If Khloee doesn't like fish flavors, I'd try the Game bird recipe as a grain free option first. Hope this helps!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Marisa, 

What kind of veggies and how much do you give the boys? I've really wanted to top Khloee's food with veggies for a while but never knew the amount....any aspect of raw food really intimidates me because I'm so afraid I'll mess up her health by giving her too much/too little of something. But Khloee LOVES all sorts of veggies.


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## Gongjoo (Dec 9, 2012)

Thank you everyone! It sounds like a lot of our fluffs flourish on the Grain Free, so I think I'm gonna give it a go. Since she wont eat any of the old food, I think the best method for a safe tranisition would be to give her a bland diet of chicken/hamburger and rice for about three days and then slowly transition the new food into the bland diet...what do you guys think? 

also...so since I see my fear of protein may have been for nothing, what is the new standard amount of protein our fluffs should be getting?


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## Bailey&Me (Mar 8, 2010)

I rotate through a lot of different foods for my two, but I do have some sort of kibble as part of Emma's rotation for right now. I'm only on my 3rd bag of kibble since I've gotten her...so she doesn't get it a lot. Her first bag was Fromm Game Bird (she liked it but wasn't crazy about it) and the second bag was Addiction Viva la Venison (she loved it but got tired of it by the time the bag was almost finished). I just got a bag of Fromm Salmon Tunalini and she is really liking it so far. She is even wolfing it down even when I don't mix in wet food. She has done really well on all of these. I believe the protein is around 28% for all three of these. If you want to lower the protein, you can mix in some fruits and veggies to her food at mealtime.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Gongjoo said:


> Thank you everyone! It sounds like a lot of our fluffs flourish on the Grain Free, so I think I'm gonna give it a go. Since she wont eat any of the old food, I think the best method for a safe tranisition would be to give her a bland diet of chicken/hamburger and rice for about three days and then slowly transition the new food into the bland diet...what do you guys think?
> 
> also...so since I see my fear of protein may have been for nothing, what is the new standard amount of protein our fluffs should be getting?


I personally see no reason to give her a bland diet of chicken/hamburger rice. She doesn't have an upset tummy. And that's so yummy you do run the risk of her not wanting to go back to dog food. You really don't need to transition from the Fromm's Gold to the Fromm's Four Star unless you go to the highest protein/fat which is the Beef Frittatta. Since she liked the Gold Puppy so well, I'm betting she will like the Game Bird. But I'm surprised she doesn't like the Duck and Sweet Potato. I think she may be one of those that isn't sure she likes something new. She's been on only one food and so it's really hard for her to try something new. See if the store you go to has some sample bags of the various flavors and start there. Once you've gotten her onto a new flavor, then continue to rotate so she doesn't become a picky eater. There are other reasons to rotate as well. You can check out the 'stickied' thread here in the Food Section about the foods we all feed for some ideas. But you don't want to run the risk of developing a food allergy as well as helping to ensure she's getting a truly balanced diet.


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Gongjoo said:


> Marisa,
> 
> What kind of veggies and how much do you give the boys? I've really wanted to top Khloee's food with veggies for a while but never knew the amount....any aspect of raw food really intimidates me because I'm so afraid I'll mess up her health by giving her too much/too little of something. But Khloee LOVES all sorts of veggies.


I agree with crystal that you can just switch to the grain free kind without transitioning. I would switch back and forth between flavors and grain-free and grain inclusive and it was very well tolerated.

As for the veggies, my boys really love sugar snap peas. I wash them thoroughly and just cut them up (usually one or two snap peas is enough as a topper). Other veggies they eat in their homecooked food is carrots, peas, squash, snow peas, haricots verts, sweet potato, etc... I give some fruit as well but try not to give too much fruit since I notice that the excess sugar makes Obi's tears smell and more prone to staining.


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Oops


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## Gongjoo (Dec 9, 2012)

Thank you Crystal and Marisa! 

Just to be clear, Khloee was never 100% on the Duck and Sweet Potato...we were still mixing in a tiny bit of the puppy food (1 tbsp). But even though she was not 100% on the Duck and Sweet Potato, I can safely switch to the grain free? Just want to make sure I dont give her an upset stomach by switiching too fast.

And what luck! I LOVE snap peas so I always have them at home. I won't give them to Khloee right now as I am more than positive she wil pick out the snap peas from her food, lol, but once she starts eating her meals again I will try this out!!!


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Gongjoo said:


> Thank you Crystal and Marisa!
> 
> Just to be clear, Khloee was never 100% on the Duck and Sweet Potato...we were still mixing in a tiny bit of the puppy food (1 tbsp). But *even though she was not 100% on the Duck and Sweet Potato, I can safely switch to the grain free? *Just want to make sure I dont give her an upset stomach by switiching too fast.
> 
> And what luck! I LOVE snap peas so I always have them at home. I won't give them to Khloee right now as I am more than positive she wil pick out the snap peas from her food, lol, but once she starts eating her meals again I will try this out!!!


Yep. You can rotate without transitioning. :thumbsup:


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## Gongjoo (Dec 9, 2012)

Thank you Crystal!!!!


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Just a thought to share...please be aware that the "grain free" foods are much higher in Protein which can cause weight gain. Both Chrissy and Snuggles are fed Whitefish and Potato by Fromm which is pretty low considering the other varieties.


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## IzzysBellasMom (Jan 16, 2013)

I also use the Fromm Grain Free, mine will only eat the Beef Frittata, I tried the Tunalini and they won't even touch it and neither will they eat the game bird. I don't have any problems with it being too high in protein. I just had read about a dog who lived to be 25 and survived only on Kangaroo meat. So a meat only diet shouldn't be a problem. My two HATE sweet potatoes and will not eat regular potatoes either, not even chili covered French fries!!! So maybe that is the problem.


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## Gongjoo (Dec 9, 2012)

IzzysBellasMom said:


> I also use the Fromm Grain Free, mine will only eat the Beef Frittata, I tried the Tunalini and they won't even touch it and neither will they eat the game bird. I don't have any problems with it being too high in protein. I just had read about a dog who lived to be 25 and survived only on Kangaroo meat. So a meat only diet shouldn't be a problem. My two HATE sweet potatoes and will not eat regular potatoes either, not even chili covered French fries!!! So maybe that is the problem.


That is the crazy thing :blink: Khloee loves sweet potato, it is one of her favorite snacks! And she used to realy like duck jerky (I say used to because I stopped feeding it to her once I couldnt find any brands not made in china) so I thought she would really like it 

*sigh* this is def a reason why I cant have kids :w00t:! I always question if I am doing what's best. Reading the threads past, looks like 25-27% was what alot of SM members aimed for regarding protein...but so many are doing wonderful on the grain free which is higher (28% is lowest I beleive) ...I think I'm gonna order the game bird and just try it out


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## Gongjoo (Dec 9, 2012)

Snuggle's Mom said:


> Just a thought to share...please be aware that the "grain free" foods are much higher in Protein which can cause weight gain. Both Chrissy and Snuggles are fed Whitefish and Potato by Fromm which is pretty low considering the other varieties.


ooo I didnt think about this...Khloee ususally gets 1/4 cup twice a day...do you think that would be enough to cause weight gain?


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

IzzysBellasMom said:


> I also use the Fromm Grain Free, mine will only eat the Beef Frittata, I tried the Tunalini and they won't even touch it and neither will they eat the game bird. I don't have any problems with it being too high in protein. I just had read about a dog who lived to be 25 and survived only on Kangaroo meat. *So a meat only diet shouldn't be a problem.* My two HATE sweet potatoes and will not eat regular potatoes either, not even chili covered French fries!!! So maybe that is the problem.


You may want to ask your vet about this. Do you know the breed of this dog? Did he heat kangaroo meat with ground bone for calcium? I do know of a cat that was extremely ill and all the conventional medicine did not work for him. His owner took him home and decided if he was going to die, he would give him anything he would happily eat. So this cat ate raw filet mignon and shockingly recovered. This was a story posted on the AHMVA's FB page. Even they said that this was NOT a complete and balanced diet, but apparently what this cat needed. I'd love to see this story since I've never ever heard of a dog living to be 25 years of age.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Snuggle's Mom said:


> Just a thought to share...please be aware that the "grain free" foods are much higher in Protein which can cause weight gain. Both Chrissy and Snuggles are fed Whitefish and Potato by Fromm which is pretty low considering the other varieties.





Gongjoo said:


> ooo I didnt think about this...Khloee ususally gets 1/4 cup twice a day...do you think that would be enough to cause weight gain?


When rotating between all the Fromm's Four Star both grain free and grain inclusive, you will be keeping the protein lower. When rotating through the grain free, should that be how you decide to feed, again some are a bit lower than others. So you need to average them. Some Maltese do better on a lower protein and others do better on a moderate protein. I do not consider 30% high protein, but moderate protein. Every Malt is different and diet should be based on what works best for each one. Protein does not cause weight gain. Calories and fat in vs calories spent is what causes weight gain.


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## Tashulia25 (May 19, 2013)

my eat 3 types
Teddy prefers canine caviar puppy grain free dinner
Ellie loves fromm puppy gold chiot
And they finally start to eat(mostly Ellie) Buffalo Blue chicken &brown rice for small breed adult dogs
They eat all of them now but still have favorite


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Snuggle's Mom said:


> Just a thought to share...please be aware that the "grain free" foods are much higher in Protein which can cause weight gain. Both Chrissy and Snuggles are fed Whitefish and Potato by Fromm which is pretty low considering the other varieties.


Not necessarily. Mine just switched to Addiction dehydrated grain free which is 20% or lower in protein. And the Fromm grain free was 28% and lower which as Crystal noted is in the moderate range.


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## Gongjoo (Dec 9, 2012)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> When rotating between all the Fromm's Four Star both grain free and grain inclusive, you will be keeping the protein lower. When rotating through the grain free, should that be how you decide to feed, again some are a bit lower than others. So you need to average them. Some Maltese do better on a lower protein and others do better on a moderate protein. I do not consider 30% high protein, but moderate protein. Every Malt is different and diet should be based on what works best for each one. Protein does not cause weight gain. Calories and fat in vs calories spent is what causes weight gain.


What do you mean when you say I should average them? I planned on going through one bag, so 1 flavor, at a time and rotating that way vs mixing 2 flavors...

Sorry for all the questions! Thank you for being so patient with me!


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Gongjoo said:


> What do you mean when you say I should average them? I planned on going through one bag, so 1 flavor, at a time and rotating that way vs mixing 2 flavors...
> 
> Sorry for all the questions! Thank you for being so patient with me!


Average OVERALL protein over a given span of time. ie. one bag of grain-free, then, next bag of grain-inclusive = average acceptable protein level over a time period of two bags. 

you can do them separate or mix them or whatever works. My two get a new flavor every 1.5-2 weeks so they don't get sick of it. I portion smaller amounts into an airtight container so you keep the big bag fresher.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

hoaloha said:


> Average OVERALL protein over a given span of time. ie. one bag of grain-free, then, next bag of grain-inclusive = average acceptable protein level over a time period of two bags.
> 
> you can do them separate or mix them or whatever works. My two get a new flavor every 1.5-2 weeks so they don't get sick of it. I portion smaller amounts into an airtight container so you keep the big bag fresher.


Exactly. You can alternate days or weeks to that you get that sort of balance of protein without them getting bored with the food. One bag of Addiction lasts us about 2 weeks so my girls get a new flavor every two weeks.


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## IzzysBellasMom (Jan 16, 2013)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> You may want to ask your vet about this. Do you know the breed of this dog? Did he heat kangaroo meat with ground bone for calcium? I do know of a cat that was extremely ill and all the conventional medicine did not work for him. His owner took him home and decided if he was going to die, he would give him anything he would happily eat. So this cat ate raw filet mignon and shockingly recovered. This was a story posted on the AHMVA's FB page. Even they said that this was NOT a complete and balanced diet, but apparently what this cat needed. I'd love to see this story since I've never ever heard of a dog living to be 25 years of age.


 
Sorry it was actually 28 years, and he was an Australian cattle dog. Oldest dogs in the world! Secrets to old age in dogs.


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## Gongjoo (Dec 9, 2012)

ah! Ok I get it now! So when we average the protein, we should be aiming for what percentage? I ask because if we are trying to get an average of say 26% we couldnt consistently use the grain free versions then as they range from 28-30%. So does everyone using the Fromm Grain Free alternate with the Grain Inclusive then to get a lower average?

What an interesting thread! I've learned SO much!!!


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Gongjoo said:


> ah! Ok I get it now! So when we average the protein, we should be aiming for what percentage? I ask because if we are trying to get an average of say 26% we couldnt consistently use the grain free versions then as they range from 28-30%. So does everyone using the Fromm Grain Free alternate with the Grain Inclusive then to get a lower average?
> 
> What an interesting thread! I've learned SO much!!!


It really depends on the dog. Some dogs do ok with 28-30% protein. Others need more in the 26%. And still others need really low protein. So I would just experiment and observe and see what seems to work the best for her.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

IzzysBellasMom said:


> Sorry it was actually 28 years, and he was an Australian cattle dog. Oldest dogs in the world! Secrets to old age in dogs.


I had a feeling that would be the link you had read. I googled it last night. While I'm not at all arguing with the author's suggestions, well not with most of the suggestions, there are a few things about the diet of the 2 Australian dogs that are mentioned that need to be considered. First they did not eat a meat only diet. The author is speculating they were eating a raw food which would have ground up bones in it to keep the phospherous level correct for a dog. Second, there is a huge difference between an Australian Cattle Dog, a Bull Terrier Mix and a Maltese. Again due to lack of disclosure in the article, I'm having to guess the Australian Cattle Dog and most likely the Bull Terrier Mix were working dogs. Working dogs actually need a high protein diet. Where as a dog who only gets moderates amount of exercise don't. In fact, in a dry kibble form, the lack of moisture in dry high protein kibble will be killing their kidneys. And if they were eating a high protein raw diet that has tons of moisture in it, the food was not over taxing the kidneys. As for the dog in the UK that was on a Vegan diet, I honestly don't know what to believe. There is no reference or links to actually document those stories. How long ago was it that these dogs lived? There is a definite deterioration in dogs and cats in the past 50 years. My guess is due to poor grade commercial diets, environmental toxins and over vaccination. The stories may be true. Was it diet? Was it lifestyle? (Running free and finding non toxic things to eat and chew on that is not available in this day and age) Or was it just plain old good genes? What makes one person live to over 100 in fairly good health and another who has basically the same diet and activity pass earlier? We really don't know. Probably just the luck of the draw with some pretty great genes. 

The other thing to keep in mind is that the author of this blog is a distributor for a particular dog food that is using the term 'holistic' that has no FDA regulations. Anyone can use the term holistic when describing food and/or treats. This person has signed up and invested a sum of money to be a 'distributor' for a brand of dog food that you cannot buy in stores. Very similar to marketing strategies of Amway, Mary Kay, etc... The author seems to be trying to make a sales pitch on the term 'holistic diet' to sell his food imo.


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## Gongjoo (Dec 9, 2012)

Good news! Fromm Game Bird came in today and its a hit! She loves it!!! I guess sometimes our fluffs just don't like a flavor! So happy!


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Gongjoo said:


> Good news! Fromm Game Bird came in today and its a hit! She loves it!!! I guess sometimes our fluffs just don't like a flavor! So happy!


Wahoo!!! Glad she likes it!


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