# Confused about grain-free



## beckinwolf (Sep 2, 2008)

I've been doing lots of research on commercial foods vs. homecooking lately. Reading websites about dog nutrition and dog food analysis. They all seem to say that grain-free is really good because dogs weren't designed to digest or eat grain. But at the same time, I've read a few books now about dog health, and the recipes for homecooking include grains! :smpullhair: The books so far that I've read are "Pet Food Nation", and "Food Pets Die For" They both have recipes in them, and they both contain rice/barely/oats. I'm also reading "Scared Poopless" right now as well. What are your opinions on the grain-free issue?


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## drclee (Jul 16, 2008)

That's interesting. I've only bought grain-free because I heard the same thing - they weren't meant to eat grains. I'd like to know too!


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Dogs in the wild (and domestic dogs) graze on grass. Dogs in the while eat the stomach contents of their victims (which is usually grain). I think the high protein, high fat diets are ideal for very active dogs. Most non-working, pet dogs I see on these foods are overweight. Some dogs also do not tolerate the foods (stomach upset) whereas they do fine on foods with grain (more fiber content). If the food meets AAFCO guidelines, it fulfills the nutrition requirements for your dog, so the grain free is fine in that manner. If you choose to feed it, be careful of your dog's weight.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

QUOTE (JMM @ Oct 29 2008, 06:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=660430


> Dogs in the wild (and domestic dogs) graze on grass. Dogs in the while eat the stomach contents of their victims (which is usually grain). I think the high protein, high fat diets are ideal for very active dogs. Most non-working, pet dogs I see on these foods are overweight. Some dogs also do not tolerate the foods (stomach upset) whereas they do fine on foods with grain (more fiber content). If the food meets AAFCO guidelines, it fulfills the nutrition requirements for your dog, so the grain free is fine in that manner. If you choose to feed it, be careful of your dog's weight.[/B]


That's a very good point about high protein, high fat diets, Jackie. Can you please tell me (us) what is considered high? Thanks.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I don't think there is any "official" opinion. Your average w/grain performance food is 30% protein. I would consider "average" protein content about 26% protein or less for dry food. I feed my chunky monkey between 18-20% to maintain nice weight and 10% or less fat. It seems you can really vary your fat % in any protein % you are after. I have found each of my dogs I have to play around to find the perfect %'s for them.


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

I will just add to this topic by saying that dogs lack the amylase enzyme and it makes it very difficult for them to digest carbohydrates (grains) because of this. However, many homemade recipes contain rice because its high in B-vitamins (fortified) and is more digestable. Barley and Oats are also good sources of grains for dogs because they are the highest in protein and contain fiber, which helps to clean out their digestive tract and keep them regular.

The grains to stay away from are wheat and corn. Many dogs are allergic to them and they provide no nutritional value to dogs. They can also lead to increased tartar build up on their teeth, among other things. Wheat and corn are often absent in high quality food, but are often overly abundant in cheaper dog foods like the ones you can get at the grocery stores.

BTW, you are reading very good books on this topic. Here is a good website about dog nutrition that discusses more:
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=myths


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## beckinwolf (Sep 2, 2008)

QUOTE (tamizami @ Oct 29 2008, 09:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=660694


> I will just add to this topic by saying that dogs lack the amylase enzyme and it makes it very difficult for them to digest carbohydrates (grains) because of this. However, many homemade recipes contain rice because its high in B-vitamins (fortified) and is more digestable. Barley and Oats are also good sources of grains for dogs because they are the highest in protein and contain fiber, which helps to clean out their digestive tract and keep them regular.
> 
> The grains to stay away from are wheat and corn. Many dogs are allergic to them and they provide no nutritional value to dogs. They can also lead to increased tartar build up on their teeth, among other things. Wheat and corn are often absent in high quality food, but are often overly abundant in cheaper dog foods like the ones you can get at the grocery stores.
> 
> ...


I got the idea of reading those books from this forum. They are all good sources of info. Thanks for your input. I'm really inbetween a rock and a hard place at times. My biggest problem is that my grandparents won't stop feeding him off their plates. That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if they ate good quality food, but that's just it. All they eat is crap, like processed TV dinners. They're just used to doing that with our other Maltese. It's so frustrating. I want to keep him on a schedule, but he's hardly ever hungry for his morning meal or his evening meal, because he's already gotten snacks from them. :smilie_tischkante:


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Going to repeat what I posted on the other thread regarding EVO.... by way of blood panels we saw 'behind the scenes':

Quincy is a young adult and was on EVO when he came to me. I do think EVO is a good food BUT NOT for 'wee-ones'. 

We had a pre-dental/baseline dental done on him last January and he had a lot of 'offs' : protein high, tot bilirubin high, potassium high, lipase high, triglycerides very high, and Alk phos low. I didn't like these 'offs' especially in such a young pooch. Vet suggested we switch to what naddie was on ( her panels are always perfect!) . That switch was to merrick dry/Wellness canned. well, that caused some mucousy/bloody poops on Quincy so we had to get a new game plan. We stopped the wellness and added the prescription WD ( for fiber)... and that did a good job.
I since switched once again for them both to the 'Chicken Soup for Dog Lovers' (for dry) because it is even lower fat than Merrick .
Poops have been perfect and better yet recent re-do on blood panel showed everything came back to normal!..everything!


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

QUOTE (IamMomtoMissy @ Nov 2 2008, 06:01 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=662595


> Going to repeat what I posted on the other thread regarding EVO.... by way of blood panels we saw 'behind the scenes':
> 
> Quincy is a young adult and was on EVO when he came to me. I do think EVO is a good food BUT NOT for 'wee-ones'.
> 
> ...


Terry - this is really good feedback, thanks for sharing your experience. Stuart had a good blood panel after I eliminated poultry and beef from his diet.....we use a fish formula that I make at home and mix with a little Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato. I just got Orijen 6 Fresh Fish Formula and like EVO, it is very high in protein, but less fat than EVO. I'm wondering if its too high in protein based on your experience......


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

I dont think feeding grain-free is a fad. I think it makes perfect sense. I do agree that you have to watch the fat and protein levels tho.

My guys have been eating grain free for, hmmm, almost a yr now. I have to say, all tear stains and yeast issues cleared up very quickly. And none of them have gained weight. As a matter of fact, Brody lost weight, so I've doubled his portion. I feed Natural Balance which is lower in protein than most others. 

Good luck...


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

I do think it might have to do with each pooch's metabolism as well. 
However, If we hadn't done that blood panel on Quincy I'd never have know so much was "off". I really didn't like seeing those in such a young pooch as Quincy.. and thus the diet change. We had decided to wait 8 months... but went to 10 and I really expected at least a couple of things to be still off but nope all went back to normal.....and those that were in normal range back in Jan, .... but close to either end .. went toward the middle. 

It's this kind of thing that makes me such a proponant for annual blood panels. Who knows,.... had I just 'blindly' keep him on his old diet what might have cropped up in way of stress to organs etc. down the line. There certainly weren't any 'signs' from the outside.


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