# What's the point of recommending breeders



## Gail (Oct 14, 2007)

that never have any puppies for sale? I went to the AMA site, look for breeders in Illinois and none had puppies for sale. Showing is great but for those of use looking for a pet, a breeder with nothing but show dogs is worthless. I've read the numerous posts about breeders improving the breed, etc., but if there aren't any puppies for sale, the puppy mills and BYB will fill the need. Something to think about.


----------



## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

If you want a good puppy, sometimes you just have to wait. Sometimes I see posts here on Spoiled Maltese of members alerting us to available puppies because they've been looking.


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> that never have any puppies for sale? I went to the AMA site, look for breeders in Illinois and none had puppies for sale. Showing is great but for those of use looking for a pet, a breeder with nothing but show dogs is worthless. I've read the numerous posts about breeders improving the breed, etc., but if there aren't any puppies for sale, the puppy mills and BYB will fill the need. Something to think about.[/B]


Gail,

No breeder should ALWAYS have puppies available. If they do, they're breeding too much and are not reputable. Finding a breeder is work! Ask those breeders for referrals to other breeders. 

A puppy buyer insistent on having a puppy immediately is also a red flag to the breeder. Take your time, find a breeder you are comfortable with, and wait for their next litter.


----------



## Gail (Oct 14, 2007)

You completely missed the point. If these "reputable breeders" don't have puppies for sale, the puppy mills and BYB will fill the need. It simply supply and demand. Plus, I doubt there are too many people who are willing to pay $3000 for a female puppy. There may be people on this board who are willing to wait years for a dog, the average person isn't.


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I would hope people have more patience when looking to add a family
member. Whether it is the purchase of a purebred puppy or a rescue, it
is not to be entered into lightly and I would think waiting would be worth
it. Show breeders cannot promise puppies available all of the time, but
they can often give you an idea when they may have one or refer you
to another breeder. Prices will vary depending on many things and you
can find one that will be significantly less than $3000 but you may have
to wait again or search more. I've always said if one is not available
at that moment my puppy must be elsewhere or not born yet. Kind of
a nice way to look at it, no?


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> You completely missed the point. If these "reputable breeders" don't have puppies for sale, the puppy mills and BYB will fill the need. It simply supply and demand. Plus, I doubt there are too many people who are willing to pay $3000 for a female puppy. There may be people on this board who are willing to wait years for a dog, the average person isn't.[/B]



Ever think that perhaps it is the puppy buyers not doing their homework that supports the mills and BYBs? 

Most Maltese (and dogs in general) that I see for behavior consults are not from good breeders and were not a good match for the owners. Perhaps if they had taken the time to research the breed and look for a reputable breeder, they would have realized the breed was inappropriate for them OR gotten a dog with a correct temperament and good start on life (and a breeder to help guide them when issues come up before problems arise).


----------



## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> that never have any puppies for sale? I went to the AMA site, look for breeders in Illinois and none had puppies for sale. Showing is great but for those of use looking for a pet, a breeder with nothing but show dogs is worthless. I've read the numerous posts about breeders improving the breed, etc., but if there aren't any puppies for sale, the puppy mills and BYB will fill the need. Something to think about.[/B]


I guess I'm not seeing your point...

Even if the show breeders in your state don't have puppies, they should be able to refer you. Many of us have purchased out of state.

Believe me, it's a good thing that these breeders don't always have puppies available - that means they don't do a lot of breeding and what puppies they do have are most likely very well socialized. I think I see what you're trying to say about puppy mills and BYB stepping up because they will always have puppies available - but it's still not in your best interest to get one just 'because' they have lots of puppies.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

You are right that puppy mills and byb's cater to people who shop for a puppy as if it were a pair of shoes. These puppy shoppers fall in love with pictures of puppies on websites and don't ask about pedigrees, health testing, which registry, etc. They can just click the Paypal button in many cases and make their deposit. Or they go see the litter in their local paper and fall in love with a puppy, again without asking about pedigrees, health testing, which registry, etc.

Yes, there are breeders who are happy to keep a constant supply of poor quality puppies "in stock" for those uneducated impluse buyers. They count on people looking for instant gratification who won't ask the hard questions. That's why puppy mills and pet shops thrive in this country.

A fool and his money are easily parted. That will never change. All we can do is try to educate people about how to find a Maltese puppy that will grow up to look and act like a Maltese is supposed to and won't break the bank (or your heart) with vet bills. Some will listen. Others will remain fools.


----------



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> You are right that puppy mills and byb's cater to people who shop for a puppy as if it were a pair of shoes. These puppy shoppers fall in love with pictures of puppies on websites and don't ask about pedigrees, health testing, which registry, etc. They can just click the Paypal button in many cases and make their deposit. Or they go see the litter in their local paper and fall in love with a puppy, again without asking about pedigrees, health testing, which registry, etc.
> 
> Yes, there are breeders who are happy to keep a constant supply of poor quality puppies "in stock" for those uneducated impluse buyers. They count on people looking for instant gratification who won't ask the hard questions. That's why puppy mills and pet shops thrive in this country.
> 
> A fool and his money are easily parted. That will never change. All we can do is try to educate people about how to find a Maltese puppy that will grow up to look and act like a Maltese is supposed to and won't break the bank (or your heart) with vet bills. Some will listen. Others will remain fools.[/B]


[attachment=36338:goodpost.gif]


----------



## Maxsmom (Aug 5, 2007)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=563084
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was one of those uneducated buyers before finding this fine site. Education is key!

Love and Peace - Chris

*“A man's errors are his portals of discovery.” *
_ James Joyce 
_


----------



## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

> that never have any puppies for sale? I went to the AMA site, look for breeders in Illinois and none had puppies for sale. Showing is great but for those of use looking for a pet, a breeder with nothing but show dogs is worthless. I've read the numerous posts about breeders improving the breed, etc., but if there aren't any puppies for sale, the puppy mills and BYB will fill the need. Something to think about.[/B]


Gail,

You have made a good point. It's been my experience, whether speaking with someone looking for a rescue or someone looking for a puppy from a responsible breeder, that the majority of people once they've made the decision that they want a dog, they want it right now. And when they come up empty after spending a day or a week contacting breeders who have nothing available right then and there they find a puppy in a petshop or from a broker and it's a done deal. And when that happens the thought often runs through my mind "What's the point of recommending breeders?" I continue to recommend breeders and I continue to discuss the pitfalls of a petshop purchase because I continue to believe that I might get through to one person that anything worth having is worth waiting for. The breeders who I recommend are small hobby/show breeders who breed on a limited basis, keep for themselves first what they think would be worthy of showing and/or adding to their breeding program and have the occasional pet puppy for sale. Some people learn by listening, some people learn by their mistakes, some people never learn. But I cannot and will not change my story because it's what I believe in.

MaryH


----------



## norcalgal (Sep 16, 2007)

I was looking for a maltese puppy, but had to put it off for a while, due to family circumstances. I have just now resumed my search and I am not in a hurry. What really surprised me was how little health testing the reputable Maltese breeders do, compared to reputable Havanese (I own one) breeders. I went to the American Maltese Association website and found no mention of any health issues and testing in the breed. The things that I am immediately concerned with are liver shunts, hypoglycemia and luxating patellas. Does anyone know why the Maltese Association doesn't require health testing??? If I am to pay $2500 for my female puppy (pet price), I want to know that the breeders not only breed for the correct type, but also for health.


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> I was looking for a maltese puppy, but had to put it off for a while, due to family circumstances. I have just now resumed my search and I am not in a hurry. What really surprised me was how little health testing the reputable Maltese breeders do, compared to reputable Havanese (I own one) breeders. I went to the American Maltese Association website and found no mention of any health issues and testing in the breed. The things that I am immediately concerned with are liver shunts, hypoglycemia and luxating patellas. Does anyone know why the Maltese Association doesn't require health testing??? If I am to pay $2500 for my female puppy (pet price), I want to know that the breeders not only breed for the correct type, but also for health.[/B]


Because health testing is relatively new to Maltese. Don't hesitate to ask a breeder to test your pup's bile acids before picking the pup up.


----------



## jazak (Feb 12, 2008)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=563361
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also hypoglycemia can affect any pup, no matter how healthy. It can be brought on by stress, or just waiting too long between meals. Luxating patellas, they can be caused by an injury as well as be hereditary. I know my vet always checks for that when they are brought in and I would think that most if not all would during the annual checkups.


----------



## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=563013
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know, for any reputible breeders that may read this, here is another thing to think about. I'm huge into rescue and my 2nd Malt Jett is from a rescue. When I first wanted to get a Maltese, I did tons of research. I emailed and left messages with MANY of the reputible breeders. Not ONE got back to me. EVER. So I started to look for local breeders. I knew about pet shops and puppy mills so I was never tempted to look there. I REFUSE to continue the cycle of suffering dogs. But I had never heard of backyard breeders. When I found my Zoe, I was shocked that the family knew nothing of the things I had been reading about and didn't have a health guarantee, or a contract. But it was a family with only one dog and she was in the house with the family. A very loving environment and the puppies were very well socialized. I got the advice from my vet that it was ok to get the puppy at 8 weeks. Thankfully I couldn't take her at 8 weeks because I wanted to wait until my vacation. So I got her at 10 weeks. The family was happy to keep her but all the rest went at 8 weeks. So I trusted my vet and thought that maybe the things I was reading was more for show dogs and I just misunderstood...but was still confused and unsure. It wasn't until I found SM that I found out about BYB's, genetics, pedigree, and not only breeding to adhere to the Maltese standard in size and form, but in temperment. TEMPERMENT never ONCE occured to me. Also I have come to realize that not all vets are aware of the special care & needs of toy breeds. Well I have my Zoe and she is the love of my life. Thankfully she has no genetic problems and believe me she is thoroughly tested every year. She is 4 now and last year we even did an ultra sound on her. She's perfect. But she is big...10 lbs to be exact. And her temperment isn't the same as Jett's, (who I've been told by the rescue came for a very reputible breeder), so I do believe it is not quite the same as the Maltese standard. So what is my point? I know breeders get tired of answering the same questions over and over, and I know I came across as a novice because I was. Zoe was not only my first Maltese, but my first dog. But I was willing and wanting to learn. If just one breeder had talked to me, I would not have gone to a byb. Just something to think about.


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=563342
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Crystal, I'm sorry you had bad experiences with emailing breeders.
I know it can be frustrating. Sometimes they don't respond because
they don't have what you are looking for or they are out of town at
shows, or just swamped. Sometimes you have to email and email
again. Then again, sometimes people are just rude.
Whatever the reasons I do hope, in the future, you don't give up on
good breeders.


----------



## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=563432
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know, for any reputible breeders that may read this, here is another thing to think about. I'm huge into rescue and my 2nd Malt Jett is from a rescue. When I first wanted to get a Maltese, I did tons of research. I emailed and left messages with MANY of the reputible breeders. Not ONE got back to me. EVER. So I started to look for local breeders. I knew about pet shops and puppy mills so I was never tempted to look there. I REFUSE to continue the cycle of suffering dogs. But I had never heard of backyard breeders. When I found my Zoe, I was shocked that the family knew nothing of the things I had been reading about and didn't have a health guarantee, or a contract. But it was a family with only one dog and she was in the house with the family. A very loving environment and the puppies were very well socialized. I got the advice from my vet that it was ok to get the puppy at 8 weeks. Thankfully I couldn't take her at 8 weeks because I wanted to wait until my vacation. So I got her at 10 weeks. The family was happy to keep her but all the rest went at 8 weeks. So I trusted my vet and thought that maybe the things I was reading was more for show dogs and I just misunderstood...but was still confused and unsure. It wasn't until I found SM that I found out about BYB's, genetics, pedigree, and not only breeding to adhere to the Maltese standard in size and form, but in temperment. TEMPERMENT never ONCE occured to me. Also I have come to realize that not all vets are aware of the special care & needs of toy breeds. Well I have my Zoe and she is the love of my life. Thankfully she has no genetic problems and believe me she is thoroughly tested every year. She is 4 now and last year we even did an ultra sound on her. She's perfect. But she is big...10 lbs to be exact. And her temperment isn't the same as Jett's, (who I've been told by the rescue came for a very reputible breeder), so I do believe it is not quite the same as the Maltese standard. So what is my point? I know breeders get tired of answering the same questions over and over, and I know I came across as a novice because I was. Zoe was not only my first Maltese, but my first dog. But I was willing and wanting to learn. If just one breeder had talked to me, I would not have gone to a byb. Just something to think about.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Crystal, I'm sorry you had bad experiences with emailing breeders.
I know it can be frustrating. Sometimes they don't respond because
they don't have what you are looking for or they are out of town at
shows, or just swamped. Sometimes you have to email and email
again. Then again, sometimes people are just rude.
Whatever the reasons I do hope, in the future, you don't give up on
good breeders.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks Brit. I had wanted to edit, but didn't get back to it in time. I also wanted to add that had I been educated on
byb's I would not have gone to a byb for Zoe. I honestly did not know about byb's but was unsure enough to ask my vet, who said it was fine. But like I said, not all vet's are up to date when it comes to toy dogs or in finding reputible breeders. I was willing to wait for the right one, but after several months had gone by without any breeder getting back to me, I figured I wasn't "up to par" in their eyes to to speak. Believe me, I know enough now that I will always get any future Malt either from rescue or a reputible small scale hobby/show breeder. I've even learned enough to know that I don't feel really good about buying from some of the top tier breeders that seem to be so revered by people here.


----------



## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

> Crystal, I'm sorry you had bad experiences with emailing breeders.
> I know it can be frustrating. Sometimes they don't respond because
> they don't have what you are looking for or they are out of town at
> shows, or just swamped. Sometimes you have to email and email
> ...



There are quite a few very good reputable Maltese breeder's who are not member's of the AMA. I am one. I live in the mid west which makes it more difficult for people to come to see the puppies in person. It is rude not to answer a potential buyer. Sometimes your e-mail could end up some where in hyper space. I don't have puppies available all the time. Especially females. You might consider shipping a puppy to you, after visiting with the breeder and feel comfortable with them. But that is a two way street. As a breeder I have visited with people who are not who they say they are. 
When you e-mail on weekends and the person does show their dogs they could be at a show and won't get back to you until Mon or Tues. 
I always answer people who e-mail for information. I feel it is rude and gives our breeder's a bad name not to do so. 
Tina


----------



## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I can certainly relate .. I had my share of not getting email responses. I asked a top breeder once and she told me that she gets 100s of emails by the time she gets to her computer. Most are inquiring for puppies that she does not have available. If she put everyone on a waitlist, it will just get way too long. I have gotten replies several months after an inquiry. I think the best way to reach a breeder is to email then follow up with phone calls. Don't bother leaving voice mails and call back later when they are free to talk.


----------

