# Diabetes Info Needed



## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Hi All - my neighbor's rescue Silky,named Betsy, who she adopted from the Humane Society in NYC about 3 years ago. She's a fabulous dog who came to her aggressive and scared and is a total love now. Adores playing with her toys and is spoiled rotten They think she's 5 years old. 

My neighbor started to notice that Betsy was drinking a lot of water and peeing a lot this past week. She took her to the vet (BTW, Betsy had a lot of UTI's this year) and they did her blood work and her glucose levels are 515!!!!! She was shocked (my neighbor, not Betsy) and was immediately given insulin to give her two times a day. The vet felt her levels would go down considerably but upon checking again today her numbers are still quite high. I suggested she see a specialist but she said she doesn't think there's much different that she can do other than adjust insulin amounts. I think she'll reconsider but is she right? 
Anyone have a dog with diabetes and any info I can give her? I feel so badly. I think she's on a prescription canned dog food.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Sue - get in touch with Marj (ladysmom). Lady had diabetes and Marj beat the odds and kept her going for about 8-9 years I think.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Thanks, Lynn. Good idea. I couldn't remember if Lady had diabetes or something else.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Terry (Naddie & Quincy's Mom) met when her Missy was diagnosed with diabetes just a couple months after Lady was. Terry is still a moderator on this forum which any owner of a newly diagnosed diabetic dog should join.

Canine Diabetes Forums

To answer your question, yes, your friend needs to take Betsy to a specialist (internist) asap. High blood glucose for extended periods of time damages organs with the eyes being the first. Diabetic dogs can go blind almost overnight. It also damages the kidneys. It is heartbreaking to watch diabetic dogs go blind and suffer other irreparable organ damage because an inexperienced vet is too conservative with insulin treatment.

My Lady was hospitalized and on an IV until they got her blood glucose down into the normal range and my vet knew what insulin dose she needed. It can be very dangerous while trying to find the right dose which is why they need to be closely monitored in the hospital. 

Normal blood glucose for dogs is similar to ours, 80-110. 515 is terrifyingly high. Betsy is in grave danger of ketoacidosis which can quickly be fatal. Please, please get your friend to take Betsy to a specialist ASAP.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

My Missy was a diabetic.
First.. I assume the dog is spayed... if not that would rasie havoc with getting control
Secondly... very important the vet does a curve.. this means getting a BG ( blood glucose) reading at AM fasting and then every 2 hours thru the day.This shows how the insulin is metabolizing ( when it kicks in ( called onset)... when it becomes strongest..thus bringing the Bg to lowest on previous shot ( Called peak) and the how long it 'hangs in there" ( called duration.
This curve is very important!! Though there is general rules of thumb.. there are individual circumstances that need a bit of tweaking for some. 
Being consistant with food( time and amount) and doing the insulin shots at as close to 12 hours is crutial to getting to good regulation.
Alos a full blood panel should be done to see if any other healt issues going on.
UTIs are very common and crop up quickly.
Ideally doing home blood testing is the way to go but often a bit too overwhelming to a 'newbie'.
Assuming the insulin is NPH... this usually works best with a high fiber diet.

The 'perfect-range' doesn't happen overnight... but should see rather soon a lowering of BG. Usually the first initial dose is on a low side.. then after about 5 days a curve ( spoken of earlier)... then slow increases in dosing.
It's important the vet has experience with diabetes and especially with a small dog. Even minor things can have bigger impact on a little dog.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Unfortunately our board isn't very active anymore BUT I strongly recommend she join Diabetes in your Dog - Insulin, Food, Monitoring, Testing - Forum

This has an active forum with very helpful and experienced people. Also lots of valuable info there.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

My Missy was dx at upper 300s.. and started at only 1 unit but had her curve 5 days later..that curve revealed she was NOT of the Norm.. and peaked very early. ( at 3 hours rather than normal 5-6) This meant tweaking of food and giving a snack 1/2 hour before her peak time
... then upped to 2 units and curver abt 7-10 days later. Though improvement at 2 units still too high.. so went to 3 units...wioth curve at about 2 weeks) This is where it got a little tricky... as she was 'close' to good regulation. In fact most of the day she was in very good range but the last 4 hour prior to her PM shot still too high. ( not getting the duration we wanted). 
Our vet said though usually the two weeks is normal 'settling in time" but with Missy she said she didn't want to do anymore upping at this point... she wanted to give her another 2 weeks to allow her body adjust... and adjust it did.. all settled in and she stayed regulated till her last day. ( Except when the little twerp got into something she shouldn't!) ...but with home testing I was able to adjust and get her right back on track.
This is why I so strongly advocate both curves and home testing.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Marj and Terry - I don't know how to thank you enough. I'm petrified for Betsy and though she seemed to be acting pretty normal tonight when I saw her, Connie thought her eyes didn't look right and her home test strip was crazy high. She's under a vet's care but I worry that just like my son's food allergies, his pediatrician knew enough about food allergies to fit on the head of a pin while the specialist knew so much. So what is the specialist she should look for? A endocrinologist or an internist or something else? Living in NYC I'm assuming there will be some good ones but I'm not familiar with them. 

I passed on your posts to Connie and told her to come online here if she needs to. Betsy was spayed when Connie first got her. She takes such good care of her and will go to the vet at the drop of a hat but I think this really might be beyond just a regular vet. 

Am praying that Betsy will be okay. I love that girl so much!!


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

I'm assuming the test strip was a urine test strip and that number is NOT what the BG is! .. that is the amount of glucose spilled over in the urine. ... and in fact is a delayed picture of BG. 
In other words it's not what the bg is at the moment of urine testing... nor is the number on test strip the number of the BG reading. 
Blood goes to kidney where it is filtered... excess glucose spilles over into urine..urine goes to bladder and is stored till the dog pees. So you can see it can be quite a bit of time between when that glucose left kidney to when it is tested on strip.

In most cases the glucose spills over at about a BG reading of 180-200 ( this is the renal threshhold).. so say a dogs renal threshold is 190 and Bg is 220... it spills over to urine. When urine is tested it may show lowest reading of 100 . If a urine test strip shows darkest brown ( quite normal at dx).. the BG is not 2000 as read on urine test strip but could be a BG of 350-400 ( or of course higher). Just don't want the reading on urine test strip to be confused with BLOOD glucose level.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Lady was also in the upper 300's when she was diagnosed which is why 500+ is so scary.

My vet hospitalized Lady for three days to get her blood glucose down and a "working" insulin dose to go home on. She was sent home getting 3 units of insulin. I had to bring her in the following week for a curve. As Terry said, that will tell the vet how a dog is utilizing insulin throughout the day which can be tricky.

Diabetes is a very manageable disease with a knowledgeable vet and owner commitment. Lady lived for ten years with diabetes and never lost her eyesight although she did have eye issues as most diabetics do.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Marj is so right... it truly is a manageble disease but does take consistancy and commitment. 
The beginning is the hardest and a vet with experience is very important. Our vet was a reg vet but had 18 years of a great track record of getting diabetes regulated in her patients. 

Just incase she's willing to get to home blood tsting here's a couple pf links with pictorial of the various methods.
I used the tail prick with Missy:
Pets with Diabetes: BG testing using the base of the tail

Some use the lip prick inside:
http://www.caninediabetes.org/pdorg/lip_stick.htm

Lip-prick outside:
http://www.caninediabetes.org/pdorg/outside_lip_stick.htm

If a dog has a callus it's another great source of getting a blood bead.

I admit it took me about a year to get the nerve to home test ( Marj can attest to that fact right Marj? LOL ) but once I found how easy it was I so wished I had started it much sooner.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Thanks again. Passed these on and yes the strip was dark brown saying over 2000. Thanks for clarifying!!! So glad she has insurance too.


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## donnad (Aug 22, 2006)

Praying all works out for Betsy.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Snowbody said:


> Thanks again. Passed these on and yes the strip was dark brown saying over 2000. Thanks for clarifying!!! So glad she has insurance too.


It's a common misconception ... and wish vets would make it clear to owners when they suggest the urine testing. It can be pretty freaky thinking your dogs BG is 2000 or more!!! 

I also hope vet isn't having any dose adjustments based on urine test results. Though some have managed OK.. for the most part it's just not the best way to get good regulation. Mostly due to the reason I stated earlier about the results being a 'delayed' picture".

The Diastix that test for ketones as well as glucose are very good , though..if ketones showing positive.. vet needs to be informed immediately!..also note the timing on the two tests are usually different so should be noted.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Maidto2Maltese said:


> I admit it took me about a year to get the nerve to home test ( Marj can attest to that fact right Marj? LOL ) but once I found how easy it was I so wished I had started it much sooner.


Yup, Terry and I learned to home test together with a few glass of wine for courage! 

The 10 test urine strips are a must have for diabetic dogs since diabetic dogs are prone to UTI's. They detect blood and infection along with glucose and ketones.

Bayer makes them, but I always used generics from Amazon because they were cheaper.

Amazon.com: Rapid Response 10 Parameter (10SG) Urinalysis Reagent Test Strips, 100 Strips/Bottle: Health & Personal Care


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

That's a great price for the 10-parameter strips, Marj. I used to get mine from Hocks but they no longer had them, so I just got from another source recently. I've never purchased from Amazon... 

Though these multi-parameters are no more difficult than the Keto-Diastix for some reason some 'newbies' were overwhelmed by them. *AND I did err when referring to the Diastix in earlier post!!!!I meant Keto-diastix! to test for the ketones. *

For some reason, many vets who recommend the urine dip-sticks only suggest for the glucose readings. Maybe trying to keep things as simple as possible for an alredy overwhelmed owner?
However,...especially in beginning, knowing the ketone levels is so very important, I feel they should automatically recommend them.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Marj and Terry - Betsy is at the vet for 10 or 12 hour testing for her diabetes today. Hoping that they are able to come up with a way to control it. The insulin seemed to start to help since Saturday but she has an internist who is the head of the vet center she goes to and her regular vet both working on it. Again she and I thank you for all the good info. Oh and she said ketones were constantly negative.


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## Yogi's Mom (Jan 6, 2013)

*I Know Nothing about this. But I would Like to Say Ill Be Praying for You.*
*Good Luck, Nickee & Yogi**


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Great news! Keep us posted on Betsy.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Great to know there is a curve being done!! 
That the initial dosing of insulin is helping and with the curve..I'm sure they're on the right track to getting regulation. It can be a bit of a slow process at first but normally when that 'magic-dose' is found and then owner keeping things as consistant as possible... things usually stay pretty much in line. 
However, diabetes can be 'touchy' affected by infections/inflammations etc and why home testing is such a helpful tool. It allows to nip things in the bud.
Please keep us updated on things!


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## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

Thinking of Betsy and hoping she's doing better soon.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

I see you already have great advice from experts on this. I just thought I would chime in to say my Cloud also had diabetes and we had him on insulin for the last few years of his life. Close monitoring is key. 

You also want to watch other health issues closely, because these diabetic dogs are more vulnerable in general.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

CloudClan said:


> I see you already have great advice from experts on this. I just thought I would chime in to say my Cloud also had diabetes and we had him on insulin for the last few years of his life. Close monitoring is key.
> 
> You also want to watch other health issues closely, because these diabetic dogs are more vulnerable in general.



Good point, Carina. Yes, diabetics have a weak immune system and are more prone to infections and they are harder to clear up. We never vaccinated Lady after she was diagnosed as it was too risky.

Betsy will need regular visits to an optometrist as diabetic dogs are prone to eye issues just like human diabetics. Lady never got cataracts and lost her vision like most do, but she stopped producing tears, had uveitis a few times and was prone to corneal ulcers.

Caring for a diabetic dog is a lot of work and can get expensive, but definitely worth it!


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Good point about the eyes, Marj ! ... 
Though Missy had a 'dot' of a cataract at dx, it never progressed so she , too, kept her vision till the end. She did develop dry-eye and we used daily drops of Genteal ( usually used the gel but also the drops) and that kept her lubricated and no complications.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Maidto2Maltese said:


> Good point about the eyes, Marj ! ...
> Though Missy had a 'dot' of a cataract at dx, it never progressed so she , too, kept her vision till the end. She did develop dry-eye and we used daily drops of Genteal ( usually used the gel but also the drops) and that kept her lubricated and no complications.


I think KCS aka dry eye is common in diabetic dogs. Lady's opthamologist said it was from diabetic nerve damage. Lady needed a tear stimulator in addition to Genteal.

Lady also had a tiny dot of a cataract, but it never got worse. Routine checkups are very important to maintain eye health and vision.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Connie sees her vet for all her pets about a bazillion more times than I do. Her pets are her kids, they're her life. She's a huge animal lover so if there's any sign of something, she's at their doorstep which thankfully is on the next block from us. I'll let her know about the eyes. My worry is that I'm not sure about a really good pet ophthalmologist in Manhattan. I had a horrible experience with the so called terrific one at Animal Medical Center so I'm not real confident since she was supposed to be THE go to eye doc. I'm hoping her vet might know another. Again, thanks so much to all of you for chiming in.


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