# When on heat..



## winterc0ld (Aug 9, 2006)

When a female maltese come on heat how do you handle? I learnt from a friend to wear doggy diapers but no matter any ways they will stain their lower belly so how do you all prevent it?

p.s. cinderella cant be sterlised as shes too small as much as i wish she can be sighs


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Isn't Sporty unneutered? How are you going to keep an unspayed female and unneutered male apart?


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## winterc0ld (Aug 9, 2006)

i will need to seperate them e.g. one corner for sporty using a baby gate as divider


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## Suz & the Fluffs (Mar 11, 2006)

Well I sure hope neither of them know how to jump.....


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## winterc0ld (Aug 9, 2006)

neither of them jumps and her heat is not here yet i`m collecting information to learn as shes my first female dog with heat


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Isn't Cinderella a rescue? I'm surprised thy would place her in a home where there is an unneutered male.

Have you actually spoken to a vet about spaying her? They spay some pretty tiny ones over here. Or reconsidered getting Sporty neutered? I know you said he was too old, but has a vet actually told you he's too old to neuter?

Having the two of them together in your home is a disaster waiting to happen IMO. If I recall, Sporty weights twenty-five pounds. If he gets her pregnant, it could kill her.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

baby gates do NOT always work. i personally know of a female who was locked and impregnated though a fence in my old neighborhood.. i'm pretty sure i posted about it....

my mother and i used to raise pure rabbits. we had to keep the males in one separate side of the barn and the females on the other. we had sexed a male wrong (he was a late bloomer) and placed him in a cage next to one of the girls... i walked into the barn to find them mating! and that was through 1/2" x 1/2" rabbit wire!

and you say she's too small.. how small, exactly, is she? i know my vet likes them to be at least 4 lbs, the reason we had to wait with massimo... but my mother has a little 3 pounder who they are discussing fixing. in my opinion, you should NOT have an intact male along with an intact female.... 

and you said sporty isn't fixed? there's no such thing as being too old. the rescues around here are done no matter what age. it's just the responsible thing to do.

have you spoken to a vet about any of these procedures? 

i don't want to get blasted here, but you said she was a rescue. how did you get her? why didn't they spay her before she was placed? did they know you had an intact male in the home before they placed her with you?
seems a bit irresponsible on both ends.....


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Baby gates won't keep a 25 lb dog from getting to a female in heat. I suggest you keep one locked in another room at all times during her cycle. I would certainly have the male neutered. He's not too little for that. Just how small is your Cinderella?


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## winterc0ld (Aug 9, 2006)

hi im actually quite offended by some of the posts, i have comfirmed that my boy and my girl cant jump over the baby gate at all, its way tooo high for them. She is 1.8kg thus in vet opinon is too small to be spayed and won`t recommend at all as hes afraid of her not waking up

If u`re gonna say me irresponsible not to spay sporty i beg to indifferent.. i love him thats why i don`t want to risk spaying him at all, if i`m irresponsible i don`t even want to spay prince. Yes the rescues are done spaying but how many died in sleep? If even vet won`t recommend i don`t even want to take the risk at all.You could say that its because its not your dog no offence, if ur dog die in sleep u`ll say oh so sad but its for his own good right? 

I have actually double ensured ways to keep her out of him when shes on heat, i`m not waiting for a disater to happen at all. why would i want to risk my sweetie dying just because after sporty humped her.

Afterall i have waited so long for cinderella and i love her i get things right here and i definetely won`t want to risk her even so many people want their maltese to mate with her







But i just refused them, i won`t want to risk her AT ALL. If i am willing to risk her etc i would have let her mate then sell away her babies like some kinda unethutical breeder.

IMO i dun think a unneutered female shouldn`t be rehomed when the person`s house has a unneutered male, As shes a rescue do u think once you get the rescue shes already neutered?

oh p.s. mine is not really baby gate but is two playpen tied at a corner


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## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

That is a bit irresponsible on both ends is right! You would be amazed with what a male can do when a female is in heat!

My Beau jumped out of his Ex Pen, walked up 2 flights of steps, jumped over a baby gate and impregnated one of my females who I was not going to breed just yet, but she was having a split heat cycle and I didn't even know it! (She is plenty old enough though and okay to breed) since then I have learned and got a top for his ex pen! 

He is 3.5 pounds! That show you determination! Males will do ANYTHING to get to a female in HEAT. She doesn't look too small in the pics. she has to be atleat 3.5 pounds-4.5 pounds. Please get her spayed for her sake. Like other said, if he impregnates her, the pups will very likely kill her.

Andrea


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## winterc0ld (Aug 9, 2006)

i would also LOVE to have sporty neutered but vet don`t advise at all, so why do i want to risk and go against vet and being the OWNER when he pass away who is the one most sad? ME.. I already have a narrowing experience with kiki that time i don`t want to loose sporty too espically when the vet don`t recommend


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

The risk of Cinderella dying from anesthesia is far, far less that the risk of her dying from a pregnancy by a twenty-five pound male.

I say shame, shame on this rescue for placing a female dog anywhere without spaying her first and especially in a home where there is an intact male.

I wish I had a dollar for every story I've read of accidental pregnancies that happened when the owner was positive she could keep the dogs apart.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

why do you seem to think the spay/neuter procedures are so dangerous?
massimo was done, and he's epileptic. a special anaesthetic has to be used on epileptic dogs to insure their safety. there is minimal risk to a healthy dog.. do your dogs have health issues?

and of course the people on this site are going to express their opinions. we are only advising you to take preventative measures. the people here are educated in such matters and are offering you their experiences. 

fixing your dogs is the responsible thing to do. a baby gate will do little to separate dogs when a female is in heat. you're right.... they may not climb, but mating can and will take place through a gate.

if you are offended, i am truly sorry. the advice that has been offered to you has been for your benefit.


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

*Well I am going to answer the original question. Get a onzee in the baby section and put a panty liner in it. You will probably need a preemie. Just reverse it and snap it together on her back. You may need to cut a hole for her tail. It is pretty simple. And they are actually cute on the babies. I use them all the time on my girls, being that they are in my home and sleep in my bed. If you change the panty liner 3 or 4 times a day it should not stain her belly.







*


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I just did the metric conversion and 1.8 kilos is 3.97 pounds.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

While onzies are cute and can help keep discharge off furniture it is not a total safeguard against a male.



You said your Cinderella is 1.8 kg. That's 4 lbs and plenty large enough to spay. Perhaps you just let your fear of losing her get to you. I know how that can happen - BUT with an unneutered male in the house

you risk far more than a simple spaying. You risk creating more rescue dogs.


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## winterc0ld (Aug 9, 2006)

i really don`t understand why u all are so into spaying them and ignoring my feelings by "slaming" on me
If its really so UNRISKY why does 5 vets tell me not to spay her?
Its not like i didn`t seek opinon from other vets too. 

As i said its not your dog so you don`t feel the pain at all. I`m sure some of your fluffbutts have survived through, but what if mine is dead? nothing can replace cinderella AT ALL.

Mayb to you all shes big enough to spay but in my country here she is not big enough to be spayed(maybe the medications too strong or weaker or more dangerous or something)

I dun feel offended by advice but rather ppl saying shame on me or shame on the breeder, as i say its a rescue do you think a not so good breeder will care about whether shes neutered or not, i plan to put her on panties and put double gate, i doubt sporty is "long" enough to reach her.

its not just any simple spaying it includes the injection of muscle relaxing and gas that risks her, its not the spay problem

do you all think i really like her to have heat and have to pull my hairs off? No i don`t! 

Yet i hope you people can be more understanding of people`s feelings and advise at a nice way, oh well maybe to SOME people i`m not even a human and i`m here to create more rescues and i torture dogs and maybe i`m not even a human(thats the feeling i get







)


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## Suz & the Fluffs (Mar 11, 2006)

So is there any reason Sporty can't be neutered? Besides you being afraid? Having him neutered would be better than having unwanted pups running around that you have to spend money on and care for.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> So is there any reason Sporty can't be neutered? Besides you being afraid? Having him neutered would be better than having unwanted pups running around that you have to spend money on and care for.[/B]


I agree, that was where my thoughts were taking me. That is a far less risky venture than an unwanted pregnancy, spaying your female, etc. Plus it would drive Sporty bonkers while she was in heat, think about he is going to feel having to smell that and not be able to get to her.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Remember we tried to convince her to have Sporty neutered a few months ago when she was complaining about him humping Kiki?

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...c=18362&hl=


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## MalteseMum (Apr 25, 2007)

I agree.
The smell of a female in heat is very strong, dogs may smell it from far away and try to come to see the female, so I don't see why Sporty wouldn't try jumping? Also, your dog is almost never too old. Unless the vet has a medical reason, I wouldn't hold back. How often do you plan using this gate for atleast another 5 years? (I don't know how old Sporty is)


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

> hi im actually quite offended by some of the posts, i have comfirmed that my boy and my girl cant jump over the baby gate at all, its way tooo high for them. She is 1.8kg thus in vet opinon is too small to be spayed and won`t recommend at all as hes afraid of her not waking up
> 
> If u`re gonna say me irresponsible not to spay sporty i beg to indifferent.. i love him thats why i don`t want to risk spaying him at all, if i`m irresponsible i don`t even want to spay prince. Yes the rescues are done spaying but how many died in sleep? If even vet won`t recommend i don`t even want to take the risk at all.You could say that its because its not your dog no offence, if ur dog die in sleep u`ll say oh so sad but its for his own good right?
> 
> ...


Just an FYI--when I questioned my vet about how small is too small to spay/neuter, he joked that it is possible to spay/neuter a rat if they needed to. No dog is too small. And I really don't think it has to do with loving them or not loving them. I believe you want what's best for your dogs, right? Keeping the two under the same roof when one is in heat and one isn't neutered is only going to torture your poor dogs--maybe that will help you reconsider what "loving" them is. From what I understand an unneutered male will do ANYTHING to get to a female in heat, even hurt themselves. I had a dog as a child that was following the scent of a female in heat and he ran in front of a car and was killed. Just something for you to think about. I think many people on here really are experts, especially the ones who have bred dogs, and are giving you good advice, not trying to pick on you. Best of luck.


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

Wintercold, when I was a young and inexperienced first time dog owner, my husband and I had an unspayed female dog who was outdoors a lot. We built her a kennel which was bordered by a chain link fence so she could be outdoors some and yet be safe. While she was outside, a neighbors dog climbed the fence and impregnated her. We were clueless about the lengths that dogs will go to in order to mate during the female's heat cycle. This happened about twenty five years ago and I don't remember exactly how tall the fence was, but I'm thinking it was five to six feet tall. Fortunately Mandy was a large breed dog and the neighbors dog was a small beagle sized dog, so there wasn't a risk of her having difficulty at birth because of large puppies. 

My husband and I learned the hard way that it's very difficult to keep unneutered/unspayed dogs from mating. All our dogs have been spayed/neutered since this incident. 

I don't think the members of the forum meant to be overly critical, we're just concerned about the risks of pregnancy with little Cinderella. We know how much you love your doggies and we love them too. We were just thinking of what would be in Cinderella's best interest.






Joy


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

The "excuse" of being too small is ridiculous. I've said this before, but worth repeating, my Joplin had HEART SURGERY at 2.5 pounds. 

My son's Chihuahua was ready for her spay, and she only weighed 1.5 pounds. The reason she can not be spayed is genetic health issues, NOT her weight. As Camfan said, they could spay/neuter a rat, with reasonable safety.

So you actually went to FIVE vets, and they gave you this opinion???

I must add, I am very disappointed that you are involved in rescue, without "speutered" dogs in your house.


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## TheButtercup (Mar 3, 2005)

i've known of several vets who perform spay/neuters on rabbits and ferrets. much smaller than a 4pound dog. talking to some rescue groups here, one found a home with over 30 ferrets and none were spayed/neutered. none died from their procedures (and you can bet each of those ferrets were spayed/neutered!) because they were adopting them out in pairs b/c of the ordeal they'd been thru. 

i'd be very interested to find any valid research you have read that supports 5 vets saying your dogs are too small/too old to go thru surgery. i'm always open to learning more! that said, again, i'd love to read the research you've come across that supprts that because everything i've found supports the contrary. thanks


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

im a vet and I say its safe to spay her...now u have a 6th vets opinion...ive spayed many smaller than her. i actually think its easier to spay the smaller ones. unless they r small b/c of a genetic problem....which will show up on preop blood work


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## MalteseMum (Apr 25, 2007)

Heck,
I know people with hamsters who were spayed without complications.
(Not just because of not wanting to mate, pyometra took course.)
"Your dog is almost never too old for spay/neuter surgery. Unless your veternarian finds a health reason to avoid surgery, go ahead and have it done. You can combine the procedure with another helpful thing- Like teeth cleaning" That is from a paper I got at the vet.
'Five good reasons to have it done:
.Prevent overpopulation
.Fewer behavioral problems
.Less aggressive
.Lower license fees
.Better health'


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

> i really don`t understand why u all are so into spaying them and ignoring my feelings by "slaming" on me
> If its really so UNRISKY why does 5 vets tell me not to spay her?
> Its not like i didn`t seek opinon from other vets too.
> 
> ...


 

I've read every post in this thread and i have not seen anyone slam you.



We are trying to give you advice however. I'm not sure but maybe the problem is your vet. Are you saying that you have seen 5 vets about this? Vets here in the US do not have a problem with operating on dogs considerably smaller than yours. Are you seeing vets that specialize in small dogs or are you seeing a vet that specializes in farm animals?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

At seven, Sporty isn't too old to neuter either IMO. Dogs much older than Sporty go under anesthesia routinely for dentals with no problem. Neutering is a very simple procedure.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

One thing you all are forgetting is SHE IS NOT IN THE UNITED STATES. And in her country they do things differently. And if the vets in her country don't want to spay or neuter she does NOT HAVE A CHOICE.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> One thing you all are forgetting is SHE IS NOT IN THE UNITED STATES. And in her country they do things differently. And if the vets in her country don't want to spay or neuter she does NOT HAVE A CHOICE.[/B]


I'm not sure she "doesn't" have a choice. She "chose" to NOT neuter her other one.

Marj brought up this thread: http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...c=18362&hl=

So in her country, they will NOT allow spay/neuter, until what "poundage"? What is the weight for spay/neuter? And does the health, of the dog, come to mind? Or is it simply weight?

You brought up a VERY good point. Will they NOT spay/neuter, based on weight??


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## winterc0ld (Aug 9, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=374682
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i`m not sure what wt they wun neuter if you all really don`t believe me and continue to"slam" u can talk to my vet

really i`m outrageous what age are you all already and you are here trying to think that she won`t die but if she DOES you all will say oh i`m so sorry for it

In the end what i get?NOTHING

what for i want to pull my hair out during her heat? DO U THINK I ENJOY IT

I`m not in the states if Vet don`t recommend will YOU go against the vet just because oh they cannot be seperated? 

OK I`M HAVING ENOUGH OF PPL SAYING I`M NOT A GOOD RESCUER BECAUSE I HAVE A UNNEUTERED MALE YES I`M VERY OFFENDED BY THIS POST.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=374687
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You are the one, who brought up the "weight" issue. Yet you, yourself, don't know. And no, I am not interested in talking to your vet, nor the other four. I would think, between the six of you, you would know the answer.


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## winterc0ld (Aug 9, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=374688
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i`m not sure what wt they wun neuter if you all really don`t believe me and continue to"slam" u can talk to my vet

really i`m outrageous what age are you all already and you are here trying to think that she won`t die but if she DOES you all will say oh i`m so sorry for it

In the end what i get?NOTHING

what for i want to pull my hair out during her heat? DO U THINK I ENJOY IT

I`m not in the states if Vet don`t recommend will YOU go against the vet just because oh they cannot be seperated? 

OK I`M HAVING ENOUGH OF PPL SAYING I`M NOT A GOOD RESCUER BECAUSE I HAVE A UNNEUTERED MALE YES I`M VERY OFFENDED BY THIS POST.
[/B][/QUOTE]
You are the one, who brought up the "weight" issue. Yet you, yourself, don't know. And no, I am not interested in talking to your vet, nor the other four. I would think, between the six of you, you would know the answer.
[/B][/QUOTE]
of course i don`t know cause after they all advise me not to neuter and i WON`T go against the vet to let her take the risk, yes we all know that she cant be neutered

mayb you would like to cal my vet and talk to him? i giv his num?


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## sophie (Jul 9, 2006)

I found this link for the Singapore Veterinary Association. It states that there are no vet schools in Singapore. And, that 85% of licensed vets in Singapore are trained in the UK, US, Canada, New Zeland, etc. It also states, in reference to stray cats:

"In Singapore sterilisation has been increasingly used by animal lovers over the last decade. Animal lovers believe that this method will reduce the number of cats that have to be culled each year. In 1991, the SPCA lent their support by sponsoring the sterilisation of stray cats at veterinary clinics through a system of sterilisation vouchers. Animal lovers could take these vouchers and get their stray cats sterilised for free at the clinics. SPCA also started sterilising stray animals at their clinic twice a week."

The following is from the Singapore Gov't Website

Sterilising Your Pet

Surgical sterilisation of pets is important to prevented unwanted litters. Often, pet owners find themselves in a situation when they so not know what to do with their pet's newborn litter. Attempts to find homes for their pets' offspring are usually in vain. Many baby animals end up being abandoned when owners cannot cope with them. As a responsible pet owner, you should never allow pet abandonment to happen.

The best way to prevent this is to sterilise your pets.

What Is Sterilisation?

It is a surgical procedure in which a part of the reproductive organ of an animal is removed to permanently stop it from reproducing. The testicles are removed in the male; the ovaries and uterus in the female. The procedure is done by a licensed veterinarian under strict sterile conditions and with the animal under general anaesthesia. Sterilisation is done mostly on male and female dogs, cats, rabbits and guinea pigs.

Why Sterilise?

Sterilised pets are less aggressive and more affectionate. Sterilisation is also beneficial to pets as they become less prone to certain diseases.

Sterilisation can help to:

Prevent unwanted litters 
Modify the pet's behaviour so that it is easier to manage 
Prevent womb infections and reduce mammary cancers in female animals

When To Sterilise?

Most veterinarians recommend that sterilisation be done when your pet has passed 6 months of age.

Will sterilisation cause a change in my pet?

Sterilisation can reduce your pet's level of activity, thus making it more homely and easier to manage. The food intake should be reduced to prevent obesity. In very few cases, an older sterilized pet may lose some control of its bladder or have thinning of its body coat. These are not serious conditions and can be easily resolved with medication, if necessary.

Sterilisation Facts & Myths

Myth : The surgery is painful and dangerous for my pet. 

Fact : Sterilisation is the most common and routine surgery performed on animals. There are minimal risks if the pet is sterilised by a licensed veterinarian. The pet will not feel any pain as the procedure is performed under general anaesthesia. Most pets recover quickly and are back to normal after 24-48 hours.




Myth : My pet will become fat and lazy after sterilisation. 

Fact : Lack of exercise and overfeeding cause the pet to be fat and lazy, not sterilisation. Exercise your pet regularly and monitor its food intake to prevent excessive weight gain.




Myth : Sterilisation is unnecessary. After all, I can easily find new homes for my pet's offspring. 

Fact : Many pets are put down each year because there are not enough homes for them. There is no guarantee that suitable homes can be found for your pet's offspring. Do not add on to the number of homeless animals.




Myth : Sterilising my pet is too costly and not worth the while. 

Fact : Sterilisation is a once-off procedure that will last the pet's lifetime. The cost of sterilisation is also small compared to the cost of raising a litter of the pet's offspring. Sterilisation can also be considered an investment as sterilised pets are less susceptible to certain illnesses.







Obeying The Laws

If you are a dog owner, take note of the licensing, leashing and muzzling conditions that are required by law. These laws include : 
All dogs older than 3 months must be licensed. Licensing details are available here. 

HDB apartments are allowed one dog of an approved breed or its cross. The cross should be 40 cm or less at the shoulders and weigh 10 kg or less. For the list of dogs approved by HDB, click here. 

All dogs have to be leashed when in a public area. In addition, the Pit Bull, Akita, Neapolitan Mastiff, Tosa and their crosses, and the Bull Mastiff, Bull Terrier, Doberman Pinscher, German Shepherd Dog (and related breeds), Rottweiler and Perro de Presa Canario must also be muzzled.

A responsible dog owner should do the following : 
License your dog once it has passed 3 months of age. 
Discipline and socialise your dog properly. 
Control your dog properly at all times and do not let it become a nuisance. 
Do not allow your dog to bark excessively. 
Have your dog on a leash when it is in a public place. 
Muzzle it, if required by law. 
Pick up your dog's poop in public places."

Just some info - doesn't sound much different than in the U.S.


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## winterc0ld (Aug 9, 2006)

why would i want to not sterlise if i have no risk? i wouldn`t need to pull out my hair everytime she comes on heat, seriously i`m sick of it


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## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

> I found this link for the Singapore Veterinary Association. It states that there are no vet schools in Singapore. And, that 85% of licensed vets in Singapore are trained in the UK, US, Canada, New Zeland, etc. It also states, in reference to stray cats:
> 
> "In Singapore sterilisation has been increasingly used by animal lovers over the last decade. Animal lovers believe that this method will reduce the number of cats that have to be culled each year. In 1991, the SPCA lent their support by sponsoring the sterilisation of stray cats at veterinary clinics through a system of sterilisation vouchers. Animal lovers could take these vouchers and get their stray cats sterilised for free at the clinics. SPCA also started sterilising stray animals at their clinic twice a week."
> 
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great article!!


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## sophie (Jul 9, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=374697
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I am really impressed by the Singapore Gov't's website on responsible pet care. It was very interesting reading. Also, abandonment of a pet can get you a $10,000 fine and 12 months in jail. And, if I was reading correctly, the maximum number of dogs one can have is 3 if in private housing -1 if in public housing. They do sound very very strict and serious about their animal care, especially abandonment of animals.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I just reread your post on her and realized that you didn't rescue Cinderella afterall. You said that you bought her from a breeder for $600. 

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...c=22763&hl=

That would explain why she wasn't spayed first.

You just got Cinderella around May 1st, right? And you've already consulted five vets about spaying her in less than a week?


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## winterc0ld (Aug 9, 2006)

> I just reread your post on her and realized that you didn't rescue Cinderella afterall. You said that you bought her from a breeder for $600.
> 
> http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...c=22763&hl=
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when i got her the pawpads etc is very horrible shes in a not so good state, yes i consulted 5 vets in less than a week, gawd i cant believe that even HUMANS can have DOUBTS on my love for them


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## Critterkrazy (Jan 17, 2007)

<span style="color:#6666CC">Oh gosh, I wasn't gonna get into this one but I just need to add my tidbit of call it what you will. First off, I have read and re-read this entire thread. Not one of these postings have "slammed" you as you say. I can sense some irritation but that is understandable. This is, after all, a forum where opinions get shared... good, bad and ugly. I do have to say that everyone is doing a pretty good job of keeping nice considering.

These questions have been asked several times and no answers have been given yet.

Why can Sporty not be neutered? Does he have a medical condition that prevents it?

Why do all the vets there reccomend Cinderella not be spayed? Is it due to her weight? Does she have a medical condition?

If these questions that have been asked several times get answered then, just maybe, we would all be able to understand better. 

This is my question. Why were you selling your dogs clothes? You made the comment in your post for the clothing that you needed the money for Cinderella as she comes with problems. What are her problems? Are they medical related?

Now for my 2 cents: Piper is the product of a failed puppy gate (so they told me.) I did see a puppy gate up dividing the hallway and livingroom. The boys were on one side of the gate and the puppies and mama were on the other side. I know several breeders of other breeds and have heard horror stories of unplanned pregnancies and what those males went through to get to the female. One dog, who was currently being shown at the time, actually chewed his way out of a wire kennel and busted several of his teeth just to get to a female who was also in a wire kennel at the time. It is very sad what they go through both physically and emotionally. It's just not worth it in my opinion so unless there are serious medical issues going on with them there should be no reason to not have them altered. I'm sure the vet offices there have up to date equipment and the know how to safely alter animals. Please correct me if I am wrong.</span>


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## winterc0ld (Aug 9, 2006)

if the medical is really so good why did the vet tell me not to spay her?

i`m not the vet i don`t know much medical stuff but the vet advised me totally not to spay either of them as one is due to age another is due to suspect more problems coming up and is too small


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

May I ask if your vet told you Sporty was not able to be neutered for whatever reason, why you would chose to add a female who was not able to be spayed to your household?


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## winterc0ld (Aug 9, 2006)

i have already planned to neuter her at first but i didn`t expect that she is too small to be neutered


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## Suz & the Fluffs (Mar 11, 2006)

> i have already planned to neuter her at first but i didn`t expect that she is too small to be neutered[/B]


What Is Sterilisation?

It is a surgical procedure in which a part of the reproductive organ of an animal is removed to permanently stop it from reproducing. The testicles are removed in the male; the ovaries and uterus in the female. The procedure is done by a licensed veterinarian under strict sterile conditions and with the animal under general anaesthesia. Sterilisation is done mostly on male and female dogs, cats, So your telling me that the are spaying rabbits and guinea pigs in Singapore but they won't spay a 4 pound dog? I'm not sure I understand that one....


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## TheButtercup (Mar 3, 2005)

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to give the original poster the benefit of the doubt and knowing her country more than i do.... maybe guinea pigs in singapore are....huge? 
like others, i cant see where she is getting "slammed". every forum has one person, every now and then, who asks for advice, and when they don't hear the "advice" they WANT, they get defensive and p*ssed off. it always turns into a big deal, and yet nothing ever gets solved. i think we can give her all the advice in the world, heck we could offer to take up a collection, pay to send a vet over to her house and spay and neuter her pets at no charge (because as she keeps reminding us, she doesnt have the money for all the multiple pets and their issues. so she just gets more pets. makes sense.), and she would still be angry at us. 

i asked her for research backing what her multiple vets tell her, and i know i wont see a thing. she WONT ask her vets for answers, she wont ask for studies and research, she is just going to settle for "no we won't spay/neuter your pet. bye now!" 

but at least all of her dogs will be dressed nicely with all the clothes from her business she is starting?


confused,
am


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## honeybun (Mar 6, 2007)

I took a chance Billy is 11 years old and he had to be desexed because he was running the risk of enlarged prostate glands and it was putting his health at risk so it can be done with older dogs if the vets are careful.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I don't want to "slam" you but here are my two cents. 

I have successfully spayed 2 dogs that weighed 1.3 kg (3 lbs) without any problems. Any good vet will be able to accomplish this. Maybe instead of going to 5 vets - you just need to find 1 reputable vet that can do this. On the side, I have also neteured a rabbit which was much smaller in size than my Maltese. I don't know how old your male is but I won't neteur/spay if they are say over 10 years old .. but heck .. I would have done it sooner so I would never be in that position.

In North America, rescues will always go to their new homes neteured/spayed. Usually rescues have lived a life of non-stop breeding and this has to be prevented when they find their fovever home. Most rescues will not place these dogs without knowning that they can't be bred. If you purchase a dog from a pet store or a bad breeder, you are not in fact rescuing a dog. You are just contributing and supporting the puppy mills and bad breeding practices.

Since it sounds like you won't spay/neteur no matter what we say .. I am going to give you another recommendation. Instead of tying two pens together, why don't you get a completely enclosed crate like the one below. There is no chance of him jumping out but he would live a pretty sad life being crated all the time. You might want to try alternating the crating - sometimes the girl sometimes the boy - but one is crated at all times. I feel pretty bad for them if this is how they live but if you don't want puppies .. I guess there is no other choice. Also, I am not sure if you have enough experience to tell if she is in heat or not. Some girls don't bleed and it is not noticeable.










Good luck and I really hope we won't be hearing puppy announcements in a few months.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Charmypoo, I reread Wintercold's post about Cinderella and she isn't a rescue at all. She paid $600 for her from a breeder.

Buttercup's Mom, don't even mention the word "collection", even jokingly! Remember we already did that last Fall when she said she had no money? She just pm'd me this week asking me how to order Puppy Zzang. Remember, the minimum order is $100 plus shipping charges (mine were $55). 

I would pay to see a five pound guinea pig, though!


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## casa verde maltese (Apr 7, 2007)

If spaying isn't an option for whatever reason. Then my 2 cents would be to keep them in totally separate rooms and each in kennels in each of the separate rooms.

I do want to stress that I am totally for spaying and neutering pets of all sizes and ages.

j


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## paris (Apr 8, 2005)

...


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## TheButtercup (Mar 3, 2005)

> Buttercup's Mom, don't even mention the word "collection", even jokingly! Remember we already did that last Fall when she said she had no money? She just pm'd me this week asking me how to order Puppy Zzang. Remember, the minimum order is $100 plus shipping charges (mine were $55).
> 
> I would pay to see a five pound guinea pig, though!
> 
> ...


yeah, you're right. i re-read what i wrote and realized it could me mis-interpreted as an offer. if i'm not mistaken, several on the board DID basically send her a box of clothes and things. i guess she wants more. 

what i am failing to understand is how she thinks anyone is going to fall for it. given the following:
(correct me if i dont have this chronologically correct)
she wants new clothes for her dogs for new year's, but she can't afford them.
she is starting a new business selling dog clothes. (i guess she can't afford her own store?)
one dog is sick, she can't afford the vet bills.
she orders clothes and bows for her dogs.
another dog is sick (or same dog, still sick, whatever). can't afford the vet.
tries to sell used dog clothes on SM to make money (okay, i'll commend that, A for effort)
wants to order puppyzzang for her dogs.
gets another dog (bought/rescued/whatever) and can afford to take new puppy AND old puppy to five different vets and will not be getting either dog spayed/neutered for reasons X,Y, and Z.

and is responsible for me not getting the last ten minutes of my life back. haha























also, either way, there are plenty of people on SM that are not drowning in money. i have filed bankruptcy. i have never once come to this board to say "my gas has been shut off, my cell service has been cut, i have no money, but look at all the nice things i want to buy my dog!" sure i've bought a couple bows and things for buttercup when i *should* have used the money elsewhere, but some days, my sanity is worth more. i dont complain, i just trudge along. it's what a buttercup and i do.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

Something smells a lot like fish here.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> Something smells a lot like fish here.[/B]


*sinffs self* well, it ain't me. i showered this morning....


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## Villa Marsesca (Feb 27, 2006)

> When a female maltese come on heat how do you handle? I learnt from a friend to wear doggy diapers but no matter any ways they will stain their lower belly so how do you all prevent it?
> 
> p.s. cinderella cant be sterlised as shes too small as much as i wish she can be sighs[/B]


A hamster can be neutered or spayed, you need a vet who deals with the very small breeds, I have placed Maltese that are 2 1/2 pounds at one year and they were altered for no breeding, it is done all the time, I do not know who is telling you this. Bands are not always the best as even mice can breed and also they must be changed frequently to avoid bacteria entering the urethia.

Cheers, Nedra


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## beckybc03 (Jul 6, 2006)

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You've just said everything I was thinking...


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## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

> Something smells a lot like fish here.[/B]


Indeed it does my friend, indeed it does!

Wait so you guys are telling me people sent her clothing?!?!?!?! WOW that sure takes some CASHEWS to get a collection when she JUST paid $600 for the dog but couldnt afford vet bills.









Best thing to do is pray the dog is okay and move on. 










We all know 4 pounds isn't too small to be spayed, and if I may be frank, the dog looks more like a 5-6 pound dog.









IN any event , one of my customers just spayed their pup who was 7 months and 2 pounds and he did great!

Andrea


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## Villa Marsesca (Feb 27, 2006)

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If your female gets pregnant and needs a C-section that is far more dangerous then a spay, it is painfull for dogs even to deliver natural, some scream it hurts them so much.

JMHO, Nedra


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

My guess and hope is that she will find what h*ll it will be holding these two apart and decide that her sleep is more important and have him neutered the next day. You can only say so much, I think it's all been said. I would be terrified of my little maltese being bred to a 25 pound dog. Even if she isn't bred, what if he hurts her in the trying process? A male neuter is definately a simple procedure and I would be doing that right now. An 8 year old dog is not OLD. I hope I am not harsh, but I can not believe that a vet would not neuter him.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

For those of you who are new, some kindhearted SM people took up a collection for her last Fall after she adopted a couple of new dogs and said she didn't have much money. Here is the thread:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...=16260&st=0

I think people are a little upset now because if you reread her other posts, there has been a history of crying poor and needing dog clothes ever since.

One question I still have is that according to the Singapore ordinances Sophie posted, you are only allowed to have one dog in HDB housing and three maximum in a private home. Since she is only sixteen and by her own words, not very financially secure, I doubt she owns a home. Either way, how can she legally have four dogs in Singapore anyway?


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## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

OH MY HOLY COWS! I can NOT believe this! They sent her clothing, and money and packages omg! 
And she even had REQUESTS for things!!!!!!!!!! WOWIE! *sigh* You just try to do good in life and you get a nice kick on the rump. The people who donated and purchased stuff, well you are priceless, I just can't believe it! REQUESTS!









There are some good people on this board with big hearts.


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## Linus McDuff (Jul 12, 2006)

Please do something about getting at least one fixed. My grannie's 3 lb Min Pin just passed away because of internal bleeding, as she was in heat, and a neighbor's corgi tried to breed her. She had many health issues, and my grannie was afraid to spay her as well. Now she wishes she had.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Okay. Can you answer this question for me?


Question: Why did Tigger stick his head in the toilet?

Answer: He was looking for Pooh.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> Okay. Can you answer this question for me?
> 
> 
> Question: Why did Tigger stick his head in the toilet?
> ...










that gets funnier every time i hear it, deb!


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

Question: Why did Tigger stick his head in the toilet?

*I have seen dogs breed through fencing myself. So that would not work either. It was much larger dogs (Walker Hounds to be exact) but it still happened. *


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> Question: Why did Tigger stick his head in the toilet?
> 
> *Ok what have I missed? *
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I'm just in a goofy mood, and felt like hijacking a thread. Here's another one for you:

Question: What did the elephant say to the naked man???

Answer: How do you breathe through that thing?


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## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

I have had a female who was barely two pounds spayed without difficulty. My vet told me that she sat on their desk after the surgery so they could keep her right close to them, but that was just because they know how precious she is to me. She was taken in the morning of surgery, and came home to me at the end of the day. 

Having a male neutered is not that big a deal. It is the safest and best thing for him, even at his age. I think that all pets should be spayed or neutered.


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

*Ok what have I missed? *  </span> 







[/B][/QUOTE]






























I'm just in a goofy mood, and felt like hijacking a thread. Here's another one for you:

Question: What did the elephant say to the naked man???

Answer: How do you breathe through that thing?








[/B][/QUOTE]









[/B][/QUOTE]


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## casa verde maltese (Apr 7, 2007)

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Okay, I'm working at home and I'm sick - thanks for the humor - I i've been sharing w/my boss who is sitting in an Airport in AZ...


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## ancox0430 (Feb 19, 2007)

> For those of you who are new, some kindhearted SM people took up a collection for her last Fall after she adopted a couple of new dogs and said she didn't have much money. Here is the thread:
> 
> http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...=16260&st=0
> 
> ...




Woah..wait..she's only 16? How did she rescue any of her puppies? Are the age requirement's differnt in Singapore? Also. I don't know any breeder here in the states who would sell a puppy to a 16 year old? 

I'm only 20, and I had trouble buying a puppy as most Breeders only sell to adult's 21 and over..


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

> *I have seen dogs breed through fencing myself. So that would not work either. It was much larger dogs (Walker Hounds to be exact) but it still happened. *
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I guess that is more proof that the only solution is spay/neteur! I wonder how breeders prevent unwanted matings. I have seen arrangements where they have stacked cages in different rooms.


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

> QUOTE(Suzy's Mom @ May 7 2007, 04:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=375021


<div class='quotemain'>
It is very hard I am blessed to have my parents {my birth parents that is} here on the same property as me. And we keep the dogs in separate houses, mine and theirs.  [/B]


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

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Do you know an Arizonan's biggest fear is getting struck by a car. Not the impact of the car, but being thrown to the asphalt and cooking to death, before help arrives.

















And yes, wintercOLD, neuter the male, he's NOT too old. And spay the female, she's NOT to small.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Isn't there a procedure where you can sterilize a male without surgery ? Don't remember how it is done.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> Isn't there a procedure where you can sterilize a male without surgery ? Don't remember how it is done.[/B]


Yes, laser surgery for neutering is very safe and done pretty routinely.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

No Marj, it's not what I mean. It's not surgery at all.



http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9808/28/t_t/dog.spay.shot/





*



Neutersol 

Neutersol is the first FDA-approved injectable sterilant for puppies. Whereas conventional neutering removes testicles, Neutersol is a chemical castration method. It is injected by the veterinarian to atrophy the testes and prostate and render the puppy permanently sterile. Studies have shown it to be 99.6 percent effective when properly administered and a safe, effective and convenient alternative to surgery. The FDA noted a risk of ulcers of the scrotum caused by incorrect injection or movement of the needle during injection; to reduce this risk, the Neutersol manufacturer provides veterinarians with a video demonstrating proper injection technique and post-injection care. This new procedure is limited for use in dogs age 3 to 10 months and is expected to cost about the same as surgical sterilization. 

Neutersol has less effect on testosterone production in dogs than does surgical neutering. So the use of Neutersol has less benefit in reducing undesirable male behaviors, such as roaming, marking and aggression, and does not eliminate the risk of hormone-related diseases such as testicular cancer and prostate disease. Surgical neutering currently has the advantage in these areas. Gonex, Inc. has a nonsurgical sterilization technique for male and female animals that has been in development for several years.

Click to expand...

*[/B]


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

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Okay, I'm working at home and I'm sick - thanks for the humor - I i've been sharing w/my boss who is sitting in an Airport in AZ...
[/B][/QUOTE]
Do you know an Arizonan's biggest fear is getting struck by a car. Not the impact of the car, but being thrown to the asphalt and cooking to death, before help arrives.















[/B][/QUOTE] 



That is why we make friends with people who live in Orange County so we can go spend the summers with them... It's getting near 100 Deb... we will be over soon...


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## honeybun (Mar 6, 2007)

There is a alternate method of spaying available here being tried. Its the same as what has been quoted as eing tried by the FDA. It is best used on males. I inquired about it as a alternate to having Billy done since he was so old but the vet said it would not help with enlarged prostate glands. Also the animal shelters here spay and nuetur kittens and puppies at six weeks of age they have to as there are so many unwanted cats and dogs. I have seen a kitten smaller than Cinderella spayed it is my neices Siamese the breeder had it spayed and it was so tiny.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

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Like this? [attachment=22384:attachment]


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## MalteseMum (Apr 25, 2007)

LMAO!
The elephant one made me fall out of my chair!


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

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I wish I had a little smack smiley icon... 
[/B][/QUOTE]

Like this? [attachment=22384:attachment] 





Yep. Just like that one... Thanks!



You are toast now Deb...

















[/B][/QUOTE]


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

i think some of this has went a little to far and enough information and suggestions have been posted to help the original poster is she desires to use it


thread closed


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