# When is it the right time...



## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

When is it the right time to breed? I mean, I know when the right time is, but is it truly the right time? I know, I am confusing you already. Our Lilli is in her third heat, is two years old, but I believe that she is too young. Miss Lilli as well, is only six pounds and for goodness sake where would she fit a brew in that itty, bitty and cute might I add - belly? 

As I have joined SM - my heart just melts as I see the families who have two, or three of these beautiful maltese. I just say to myself - Miss Lilli needs a daughter, or son. But I can not bring myself to even fathoming it. My husband laughs at me! I truly want to breed Lilli, in case - as we did with our Peaches - lose her to something. Peaches passed due to kidney failure - March 10, 2007 due to the melanin in the pet food. I am perplexed regarding this situation and I am truly a person who primarly aquires her pets form shelters. Lilli is the first one we did not. I guess I am just an overprotective mother and confused at that! What to do, what to do...LOL! I guess i will know when the time is right. Right?


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## mimi2 (Mar 29, 2005)

There is never a right time unless you have champion dogs that you are showing and you are a show breeder. The only reason to breed is for the betterment, not because you want your dog to have a son or daughter.


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (mimi2 @ Mar 2 2009, 08:12 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737784


> There is never a right time unless you have champion dogs that you are showing and you are a show breeder. The only reason to breed is for the betterment, not because you want your dog to have a son or daughter.[/B]


Thanks Mimi, I can understand your point completely, but not all Maltese are Champions - is the betterment you write about - only being a Champion and on show, and for those reasons only? Or can it be being a family? Just a thought. Again, I do appreciate your response.


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## Harley & Dakotas Mum (Jun 11, 2005)

Hi there, your Miss Lilli is a doll baby, thats for sure! :wub: I am also sorry for your loss of your sweet Peaches :grouphug: 

I can't really answer your question - except to say, for me - I would NEVER want to breed my pets - they are both spayed/neutered. I don't know enough about it to even contemplate ever doing it. I am happy to leave it to the expert breeders, who thoroughly research every aspect ... health, genetics etc.

Can I ask - why do you think your Lilli _"needs"_ to have babies?

"_What to do_"? Well, if I were you, I would have Lilli spayed, and if you really want another little fluff in your life, either rescue, or find a well respected show breeder.


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## mimi2 (Mar 29, 2005)

QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 2 2009, 10:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737794


> QUOTE (mimi2 @ Mar 2 2009, 08:12 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737784





> There is never a right time unless you have champion dogs that you are showing and you are a show breeder. The only reason to breed is for the betterment, not because you want your dog to have a son or daughter.[/B]


Thanks Mimi, I can understand your point completely, but not all Maltese are Champions - is the betterment you wrie about - only being a Champion and on show and for those reasons only? Or can it be being a family? Just a thought. Again, I do appreciate your response.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Hopefully one of the show breeder we have on here will better explain what it all means. What I do know is that there are about 6 million animals put down every year, many starting out their lives in the homes of backyard breeders or puppy mills. So many things can go wrong. So many health problems that come up with byb and puppy mill puppies. Show breeders do health testing and don't breed two dogs together just because they can. I'm not trying to sound harsh but it's just a major pet peeve of mine!


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

Ok here goes I have 4 Malts all aquired by different means. I would never fathom the thought of breeding. First they are on the small side (except for Cody) and second I wouldn't know what to do with myself if something happened to them. I get asked on a weekly basis if I am going to breed them when they see 4. I use to breed Rotties years ago. You don't have to be in the show ring but you do need to research your dog and the breed. Is he/she up to the Maltese standard? Is she/he have anything in their genetic background that will be passed on to the litter? The other dog that you will be mating to do you know their background. Are you willing to spend $$$$ if the babies are breeched, or the mom doesn't progress in labor and needs a C section? Are you willing to stay up around the clock if the mother rejects the babies?

There are so many things you need to know before even thinking about breeding your pet. I wouldn't take the risk. With so many Malts in shelters because of BYBers why would you want to bring anymore into that situation.


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (Harley & Dakotas Mum @ Mar 2 2009, 08:20 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737798


> Hi there, your Miss Lilli is a doll baby, thats for sure! :wub: I am also sorry for your loss of your sweet Peaches :grouphug:
> 
> I can't really answer your question - except to say, for me - I would NEVER want to breed my pets - they are both spayed/neutered. I don't know enough about it to even contemplate ever doing it. I am happy to leave it to the expert breeders, who thoroughly research every aspect ... health, genetics etc.
> 
> ...


Hi Harley & Dakotas Mum,

Thank you for your kindness and great question. You know, I really do not need for her to have a son, or a daughter. She is of great lineage, but I am not about the showing of her. She runs our company as is trully too busy with that - lol! It is just that I have in my mind - I guess, the fear of losing her lineage. Like I had said previous - she is my first non-shelter baby. I will continue to do as I have for years and acquire my babies from the shelters. We spend a lot of time and donations in helping our shelters. I suppose it was not the proper question, and probably selfish of me to even think about such nonsence. My intent was to question the idea, bring on the pros and cons. I do apologize should I have offended others. That was not my intent. But I do believe that presenting questions as such will bring on differences of opinions and that is part of why we are all here. It is great to see reasoning in so many differents forms. Again, thanks - she is a love and a handful!


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Lili sure looks like a sweet girl! Do you mind if I ask where she came from? Did you get her from a breeder? What type of registration does she have? 

This is a touchy topic on this forum, so I apologize in advance for the types of responses you are most likely going to get. Just know it's because we truly love these dogs! Not every dog should be bred, that i do know.

To answer your initial question, after 2 years of age or after the third heat is the 'accepted' time to breed but it varies on the bitch. How big is your girl? How do you plan to find a stud? The problem with what you want to do is you are not going to find the nicest dogs to breed to your girl, you will be dealing with backyard breeders who dont' always know their dogs and what is behind their dogs.

I know it isnt' what you want to hear - but I'd recommend not breeding your girl and instead, looking for another sweet baby to welcome into your home. You would really not like yourself if something happened to your precious baby just because you wanted her to produce.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 2 2009, 09:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737816


> QUOTE (Harley & Dakotas Mum @ Mar 2 2009, 08:20 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737798





> Hi there, your Miss Lilli is a doll baby, thats for sure! :wub: I am also sorry for your loss of your sweet Peaches :grouphug:
> 
> I can't really answer your question - except to say, for me - I would NEVER want to breed my pets - they are both spayed/neutered. I don't know enough about it to even contemplate ever doing it. I am happy to leave it to the expert breeders, who thoroughly research every aspect ... health, genetics etc.
> 
> ...


Hi Harley & Dakotas Mum,

Thank you for your kindness and great question. You know, I really do not need for her to have a son, or a daughter. She is of great lineage, but I am not about the showing of her. She runs our company as is trully too busy with that - lol! It is just that I have in my mind - I guess, the fear of losing her lineage. Like I had said previous - she is my first non-shelter baby. I will continue to do as I have for years and acquire my babies from the shelters. We spend a lot of time and donations in helping our shelters. I suppose it was not the proper question, and probably selfish of me to even think about such nonsence. My intent was to question the idea, bring on the pros and cons. I do apologize should I have offended others. That was not my intent. But I do believe that presenting questions as such will bring on differences of opinions and that is part of why we are all here. It is great to see reasoning in so many differents forms. Again, thanks - she is a love and a handful!
[/B][/QUOTE]

Oh do you have her pedigree? I love looking at pedigrees! Who are her parents?


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (mimi2 @ Mar 2 2009, 08:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737805


> QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 2 2009, 10:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737794





> QUOTE (mimi2 @ Mar 2 2009, 08:12 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737784





> There is never a right time unless you have champion dogs that you are showing and you are a show breeder. The only reason to breed is for the betterment, not because you want your dog to have a son or daughter.[/B]


Thanks Mimi, I can understand your point completely, but not all Maltese are Champions - is the betterment you wrie about - only being a Champion and on show and for those reasons only? Or can it be being a family? Just a thought. Again, I do appreciate your response.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Hopefully one of the show breeder we have on here will better explain what it all means. What I do know is that there are about 6 million animals put down every year, many starting out their lives in the homes of backyard breeders or puppy mills. So many things can go wrong. So many health problems that come up with byb and puppy mill puppies. Show breeders do health testing and don't breed two dogs together just because they can. I'm not trying to sound harsh but it's just a major pet peeve of mine!
[/B][/QUOTE]

No, I truly understand your feelings. I spend a lot of time with charity work for our shelters. Our company sponsers a few. Again, it was as I explained to Harleys Mum - it was a selfish thought in my mind. I will have to say that, bringing it to the forum, only reassured my inner thoughts as to not doing so. Again, I did not mean to upset anyone. There is a time, when one may think about something - that may not be right. Being that i know what is occuring out there - again it was selfish of me. My only defense is - the thought of losing her lineage. Thank you for your response - it has only as the others, reaffirmed my need to not breed her. Truly, thank you.


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

If I may ask, what lineage is she from? And which lineage would you like to take her to? She does have a very pretty coat. 

Tina


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Mar 2 2009, 08:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737819


> Lili sure looks like a sweet girl! Do you mind if I ask where she came from? Did you get her from a breeder? What type of registration does she have?
> 
> This is a touchy topic on this forum, so I apologize in advance for the types of responses you are most likely going to get. Just know it's because we truly love these dogs! Not every dog should be bred, that i do know.
> 
> ...


Hi,

No it was, actually what I did want to hear. As I explained myself - it was a selfish thought. I should not have brought to the forum such ideas. Again, I do apologize. I am still at a lost for my Peaches - even after 2 years. I guess, the only way to explain it in my defense is. It would be like losing a child and wishing you had a clone. Again, thank you for your response and again, I do apologize.


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## mimi2 (Mar 29, 2005)

I wanted to add that little Lilli is a pretty baby. :wub: :wub: :wub:


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

You say she came from great lineage. What is her pedigree? Did your breeder sell her on a spay/neuter contract.

I seriously pray you continue to keep the thought of breeding her out of your mind.

Especially someone who spends so much time/money, thru the years, helping shelters. You see first hand
the overpopulation of poorly bred, and abandonded dogs. No, we don't need anymore.

Continue your work with the shelters. And perhaps adopt another who desperately needs, and deserves a home.

I'm so sorry about your Peaches.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 2 2009, 10:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737830


> QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Mar 2 2009, 08:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737819





> Lili sure looks like a sweet girl! Do you mind if I ask where she came from? Did you get her from a breeder? What type of registration does she have?
> 
> This is a touchy topic on this forum, so I apologize in advance for the types of responses you are most likely going to get. Just know it's because we truly love these dogs! Not every dog should be bred, that i do know.
> 
> ...


Hi,

No it was, actually what I did want to hear. As I explained myself - it was a selfish thought. I should not have brought to the forum such ideas. Again, I do apologize. I am still at a lost for my Peaches - even after 2 years. I guess, the only way to explain it in my defense is. It would be like losing a child and wishing you had a clone. Again, thank you for your response and again, I do apologize.
[/B][/QUOTE]


can I just be the first to say thank you for being so reasonable? It's a rare thing on this forum with this type of question! 

i'm so sorry for your loss. *hugs you*


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (LuvMyFurbaby @ Mar 2 2009, 08:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737815


> Ok here goes I have 4 Malts all aquired by different means. I would never fathom the thought of breeding. First they are on the small side (except for Cody) and second I wouldn't know what to do with myself if something happened to them. I get asked on a weekly basis if I am going to breed them when they see 4. I use to breed Rotties years ago. You don't have to be in the show ring but you do need to research your dog and the breed. Is he/she up to the Maltese standard? Is she/he have anything in their genetic background that will be passed on to the litter? The other dog that you will be mating to do you know their background. Are you willing to spend $$$$ if the babies are breeched, or the mom doesn't progress in labor and needs a C section? Are you willing to stay up around the clock if the mother rejects the babies?
> 
> There are so many things you need to know before even thinking about breeding your pet. I wouldn't take the risk. With so many Malts in shelters because of BYBers why would you want to bring anymore into that situation.[/B]


Thank you, I truly appreciate your thoughts and I do agree completely. Again, I will apologize for the question brought to the forum. My intent was not to upset anyone. I have never bred an pet, again my pets have all come from shelters - except Miss Lilli. I am just at a loss and what a bad thought it was. Again, I do apologize.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Don't apologize. Better to ask, than to breed.


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (Tina @ Mar 2 2009, 08:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737825


> If I may ask, what lineage is she from? And which lineage would you like to take her to? She does have a very pretty coat.
> 
> Tina[/B]


Tina, she has a very pretty coat, but she is such a tom boy! I have to keep it short. She is always running amuck and into the gardens. Again she runs the roost and the office. Tina, now you have me - I would not know where to take her. This is another reason as to why I should just keep my day job! Again, I do apologize for such a terrible thought. I feel like such the bad kid on the block.


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Mar 2 2009, 08:55 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737839


> Don't apologize. Better to ask, than to breed. [/B]


Thank you. But, you know - I should know better. My thoughts were just selfish.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Now you're making me die with curiousity - who is your cutie from/out of? You can't just speak of great lineage and then not give it up, LOL!


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 2 2009, 11:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737837


> QUOTE (LuvMyFurbaby @ Mar 2 2009, 08:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737815





> Ok here goes I have 4 Malts all aquired by different means. I would never fathom the thought of breeding. First they are on the small side (except for Cody) and second I wouldn't know what to do with myself if something happened to them. I get asked on a weekly basis if I am going to breed them when they see 4. I use to breed Rotties years ago. You don't have to be in the show ring but you do need to research your dog and the breed. Is he/she up to the Maltese standard? Is she/he have anything in their genetic background that will be passed on to the litter? The other dog that you will be mating to do you know their background. Are you willing to spend $$$$ if the babies are breeched, or the mom doesn't progress in labor and needs a C section? Are you willing to stay up around the clock if the mother rejects the babies?
> 
> There are so many things you need to know before even thinking about breeding your pet. I wouldn't take the risk. With so many Malts in shelters because of BYBers why would you want to bring anymore into that situation.[/B]


Thank you, I truly appreciate your thoughts and I do agree completely. Again, I will apologize for the question brought to the forum. My intent was not to upset anyone. I have never bred an pet, again my pets have all come from shelters - except Miss Lilli. I am just at a loss and what a bad thought it was. Again, I do apologize. 

[/B][/QUOTE]


I'm sorry if I came across as harsh I didn't mean to. I was just asked today about the breeding thing and all they see is $$ at least you had different reasons behind it. Better to ask questions and get answers and opinions then to stay quiet and never get a response. And I am truly sorry for your loss! :grouphug:


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Mar 2 2009, 08:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737836


> QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 2 2009, 10:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737830





> QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Mar 2 2009, 08:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737819





> Lili sure looks like a sweet girl! Do you mind if I ask where she came from? Did you get her from a breeder? What type of registration does she have?
> 
> This is a touchy topic on this forum, so I apologize in advance for the types of responses you are most likely going to get. Just know it's because we truly love these dogs! Not every dog should be bred, that i do know.
> 
> ...


Hi,

No it was, actually what I did want to hear. As I explained myself - it was a selfish thought. I should not have brought to the forum such ideas. Again, I do apologize. I am still at a lost for my Peaches - even after 2 years. I guess, the only way to explain it in my defense is. It would be like losing a child and wishing you had a clone. Again, thank you for your response and again, I do apologize.
[/B][/QUOTE]


can I just be the first to say thank you for being so reasonable? It's a rare thing on this forum with this type of question! 

i'm so sorry for your loss. *hugs you*
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you, sometimes - we just need to be brought back into rationality. I appreciate your's and the others - comments and it has strengthened my thought of not breeding. We will find our next baby at the shelter. Thank you for accepting my apologies. I truly love this forum.


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Mar 2 2009, 08:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737836


> QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 2 2009, 10:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737830





> QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Mar 2 2009, 08:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737819





> Lili sure looks like a sweet girl! Do you mind if I ask where she came from? Did you get her from a breeder? What type of registration does she have?
> 
> This is a touchy topic on this forum, so I apologize in advance for the types of responses you are most likely going to get. Just know it's because we truly love these dogs! Not every dog should be bred, that i do know.
> 
> ...


Hi,

No it was, actually what I did want to hear. As I explained myself - it was a selfish thought. I should not have brought to the forum such ideas. Again, I do apologize. I am still at a lost for my Peaches - even after 2 years. I guess, the only way to explain it in my defense is. It would be like losing a child and wishing you had a clone. Again, thank you for your response and again, I do apologize.
[/B][/QUOTE]


can I just be the first to say thank you for being so reasonable? It's a rare thing on this forum with this type of question! 

i'm so sorry for your loss. *hugs you*
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you, sometimes - we just need to be brought back into rationality. I appreciate your's and the others - comments and it has strengthened my thought of not breeding. We will find our next baby at the shelter. Thank you for accepting my apologies. I truly love this forum.


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 2 2009, 11:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737840


> QUOTE (Tina @ Mar 2 2009, 08:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737825





> If I may ask, what lineage is she from? And which lineage would you like to take her to? She does have a very pretty coat.
> 
> Tina[/B]


Tina, she has a very pretty coat, but she is such a tom boy! I have to keep it short. She is always running amuck and into the gardens. Again she runs the roost and the office. Tina, now you have me - I would not know where to take her. This is another reason as to why I should just keep my day job! Again, I do apologize for such a terrible thought. I feel like such the bad kid on the block. 
[/B][/QUOTE]

The breeder's on this forum really truly do want to know what the Pedigree is. I am a to the point type person. You might get different answers on this forum, but that is what makes this forum what it is. No one says it is a terrible thought wanting aswers from questions such as this. So, with that, show us the pedigree!! Please.
Tina


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Mar 2 2009, 09:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737846


> Now you're making me die with curiousity - who is your cutie from/out of? You can't just speak of great lineage and then not give it up, LOL![/B]


If you would, let me pull her papers - they are in our safety deposit box at wells fargo. I will definately get back to you. We brought her in from Caney Oklahoma. Being that I do not show, nor breed her - her papers are not located at our home, I do hope you understand.


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 2 2009, 11:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737870


> QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Mar 2 2009, 09:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737846





> Now you're making me die with curiousity - who is your cutie from/out of? You can't just speak of great lineage and then not give it up, LOL![/B]


If you would, let me pull her papers - they are in our safety deposit box at wells fargo. I will definately get back to you. We brought her in from Caney Oklahoma. Being that I do not show, nor breed her - her papers are not located at our home, I do hope you understand. 
[/B][/QUOTE]


what breeder did you get her from in Oklahoma?


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## Deborah (Jan 8, 2006)

These are such a delicate breed due to their small size a lot of bad things can happen when you breed them. Heck I couldn't breed rabbits correctly. For her health I do beg you to have her spayed as soon as possible.


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (Tina @ Mar 2 2009, 09:12 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737856


> QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 2 2009, 11:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737840





> QUOTE (Tina @ Mar 2 2009, 08:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737825





> If I may ask, what lineage is she from? And which lineage would you like to take her to? She does have a very pretty coat.
> 
> Tina[/B]


Tina, she has a very pretty coat, but she is such a tom boy! I have to keep it short. She is always running amuck and into the gardens. Again she runs the roost and the office. Tina, now you have me - I would not know where to take her. This is another reason as to why I should just keep my day job! Again, I do apologize for such a terrible thought. I feel like such the bad kid on the block. 
[/B][/QUOTE]

The breeder's on this forum really truly do want to know what the Pedigree is. I am a to the point type person. You might get different answers on this forum, but that is what makes this forum what it is. No one says it is a terrible thought wanting aswers from questions such as this. So, with that, show us the pedigree!! Please.
Tina
[/B][/QUOTE]

Hi Miss Tina, We brought Lilli in from Caney, Oklahoma. I need to retrieve the papers from our safety deposit box at wells fargo. This tells you, I have no right, nor clue in ever breeding (and I will not) because I am sure that most know all on their babies papers. She is just my baby and all I know is that she is an Oklahoman, is that spelled correctly? I tell you, I can not get the spell check to work and is why you will see so many typos! I will surely get back to you.


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (Deborah @ Mar 2 2009, 09:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737882


> These are such a delicate breed due to their small size a lot of bad things can happen when you breed them. Heck I couldn't breed rabbits correctly. For her health I do beg you to have her spayed as soon as possible.[/B]


Hi Deborah, I will. You know, she is two and only - 5.5 to 6 pounds. She is so itty bitty....


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (MySugarBears @ Mar 2 2009, 09:28 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737872


> QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 2 2009, 11:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737870





> QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Mar 2 2009, 09:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737846





> Now you're making me die with curiousity - who is your cutie from/out of? You can't just speak of great lineage and then not give it up, LOL![/B]


If you would, let me pull her papers - they are in our safety deposit box at wells fargo. I will definately get back to you. We brought her in from Caney Oklahoma. Being that I do not show, nor breed her - her papers are not located at our home, I do hope you understand. 
[/B][/QUOTE]


what breeder did you get her from in Oklahoma?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Hi, I will find out from you. Her papers are in the safety deposit box at Wells fargo.


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## Deborah (Jan 8, 2006)

:ThankYou: Others on here can really tell you horror stories. She is perfect to be spayed now. The longer you wait there are more chances that she could become sick. I am not an expert others can tell you much better than me. Rylee was 5 pound and a year old when I had her spayed. The only reason I waited for a year was I did not get her until she was 8 months. She already had one heat. I could not alter her in anyway in case she did not work out and had to be returned.


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (Deborah @ Mar 2 2009, 09:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737891


> :ThankYou: Others on here can really tell you horror stories. She is perfect to be spayed now. The longer you wait there are more chances that she could become sick. I am not an expert others can tell you much better than me. Rylee was 5 pound and a year old when I had her spayed. The only reason I waited for a year was I did not get her until she was 8 months. She already had one heat. I could not alter her in anyway in case she did not work out and had to be returned.[/B]


Deborah, thank you. I will. I really appreciate all of your help - all of you!


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

I too am sorry for the loss of your Peaches due to the dog food debacle. Little Tina is a very cute little baby. :wub: 

You are here to ask questions and learn. I understand the reason for you wanting another fluff butt, but please leave the breeding to the pros. From what you have shared I would guess that you wouldn't be showing her either. If that is the case, it is in the best interest of Tina health wise you have her spay. Mammary tumors, and ovarian cyst are prevalent on unspayed dogs, and I doubt that is what you want for her. The longer you wait to do this, the more difficult it is.  

You have not posted your location but currently there are over 270,000 dogs up for adoption through www.petfinders.com some of which are Maltese in desperate need of a home. In there past two months 3 large puppymills have been closed down, and the dogs distributed around various shelters. Please, check the site for your nest Maltese, a little doggy is waiting just for you! :thumbsup:


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

Once again, Welcome to SM. Me and my girl love Marilyn Muttroe clothes 

My first maltese was from a person who knew nothing about breeding maltese, she just knew that you get two healthy maltese(male and female of course) and breed them. Both of the dogs were healthy, but somehow my little puppy died three months after I got her due to neurological problems... The breeder had no right to be breeding dogs if she knew nothing of both the parents past lineage. My vet was furious about this. We spent more on that puppy that we had for 3 months than my new maltese Gigi, and we had her for twice that long. 
Actually, my Gigi has had absolutly no health problems yet(knock on wood) The breeder I got Gigi from has been breeding and perfecting the maltese as a breed since the 70s so she knows her dogs. 

The longer you wait to get your darling spayed, the higher the chance of her getting cancer.

And don't apologize, you didn't know better! This is a very touchy topic here because so many people come to this forum and ask that question, and I guess it gets kind of old. LOL So many members here rescue soooo many maltese(3MaltMom has a house full of them right now!) from kill shelters and almost everyday here, somebody else post new shelters with more maltese in them  And we have maltese breeders here that try to breed their dogs so the puppies will be perfect to the standard of a maltese. 

Hope you stick around! You'll learn so much from this site! 

Briana and Gigi


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

I will looking forward to seeing her pedigree. You have lots of patience. I am moving at the moment and may not see it right away, but I am looking forward to see who she is and where she is coming from. You have a beautiful baby.

Tina


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Mar 2 2009, 10:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737903


> I too am sorry for the loss of your Peaches due to the dog food debacle. Little Tina is a very cute little baby. :wub:
> 
> You are here to ask questions and learn. I understand the reason for you wanting another fluff butt, but please leave the breeding to the pros. From what you have shared I would guess that you wouldn't be showing her either. If that is the case, it is in the best interest of Tina health wise you have her spay. Mammary tumors, and ovarian cyst are prevalent on unspayed dogs, and I doubt that is what you want for her. The longer you wait to do this, the more difficult it is.
> 
> You have not posted your location but currently there are over 270,000 dogs up for adoption through www.petfinders.com some of which are Maltese in desperate need of a home. In there past two months 3 large puppymills have been closed down, and the dogs distributed around various shelters. Please, check the site for your nest Maltese, a little doggy is waiting just for you! :thumbsup:[/B]


Starsmom, thank you for the condolenses. I am located in the San Diego area. My two shelters of which we do charity for - are "Helen Woodward Animal Center" in Rancho Santa Fe, CA. I chose that shelter in 2001 due to being married in Rancho Santa Fe, CA and I wanted to give back to society, which of course includes our beautiful furry friends. Rancho Santa Fe gave to us a beautiful place to be married at - The Inn at Rancho Santa Fe. The other shelter is in the Los Angeles area - "Dogs in Danger". Even though I am an advocate for not breeding I seemed to have lost my senses in thinking about breeding Lilli. I am so glad, that those here on the forum helped me to remember why we do not breed. It is like having your girlfriends givey ou advice and that is awesome! I really needed the kick in the booty and the rationality as to why we (I) should not breed for reasons for simply, our (mine) own satisfaction and reasons for which we (I) may believe is valid. Again, thank you! Please, excuse my typos, I still can not figure out as to why my spell check does not work.


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (Tina @ Mar 2 2009, 10:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737915


> I will looking forward to seeing her pedigree. You have lots of patience. I am moving at the moment and may not see it right away, but I am looking forward to see who she is and where she is coming from. You have a beautiful baby.
> 
> Tina[/B]


Tina, thank you! She is adorable but again, what a Tom Boy! Seriously, she she is so awesome and so smart. Your baby's hair is so exquisite. I only wish my Miss Lilli could be so couture with her style. But she is mine and what more could I ask for. Now, if I could only keep her from jumping into the pool to chase the frogs! Uggghh! Good luck with your move.


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Mar 2 2009, 10:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737909


> Once again, Welcome to SM. Me and my girl love Marilyn Muttroe clothes
> 
> My first maltese was from a person who knew nothing about breeding maltese, she just knew that you get two healthy maltese(male and female of course) and breed them. Both of the dogs were healthy, but somehow my little puppy died three months after I got her due to neurological problems... The breeder had no right to be breeding dogs if she knew nothing of both the parents past lineage. My vet was furious about this. We spent more on that puppy that we had for 3 months than my new maltese Gigi, and we had her for twice that long.
> Actually, my Gigi has had absolutly no health problems yet(knock on wood) The breeder I got Gigi from has been breeding and perfecting the maltese as a breed since the 70s so she knows her dogs.
> ...


I Love My Maltese, thank you for your kindness regarding our clothes. I am so deeply sorry about your lost angel. We lost of course Peaches in 2007. As well, we lost a shar-pei in 2005. We received Winnie, our shar-pei from a neighbor who was going to be taking her to the shelter in 1997. What is one more in the family? We could not let that happen and she came to be part of our family. In 2005, it was found that Winnie had cyst's on her ovaries (due to not being spayed). She had surgery, however -would not heal and passed away two months after her procedure. I had to call our son in Iraq and he was completely crushed. That was his baby. Again, thank you for your help. I truly feel as though I have some great girlfriends on this forum. Your girlfriends, will trully shoot it straight and be the first to shake one into submission when we for a moment lose all sense!


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Mar 2 2009, 10:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737903


> I too am sorry for the loss of your Peaches due to the dog food debacle. Little Tina is a very cute little baby. :wub:
> 
> You are here to ask questions and learn. I understand the reason for you wanting another fluff butt, but please leave the breeding to the pros. From what you have shared I would guess that you wouldn't be showing her either. If that is the case, it is in the best interest of Tina health wise you have her spay. Mammary tumors, and ovarian cyst are prevalent on unspayed dogs, and I doubt that is what you want for her. The longer you wait to do this, the more difficult it is.
> 
> You have not posted your location but currently there are over 270,000 dogs up for adoption through www.petfinders.com some of which are Maltese in desperate need of a home. In there past two months 3 large puppymills have been closed down, and the dogs distributed around various shelters. Please, check the site for your nest Maltese, a little doggy is waiting just for you! :thumbsup:[/B]


Starsmom, thank you. I am in the San Diego area. I will look into the websites you have mentioned. Miss Lilli would love to share her bed, OUR bed - she is spoiled and takes up our entire bed! All 6 pounds of her! It is so funny, she has to be tucked up and into MY body, not my husband, but mine. I will look into the shleters you have suggested. Thank you!!!!!


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

:grouphug: Aw bless you for not only asking, but accepting the answers from those that truly know. :grouphug: 

I am deeply sorry about Peaches. We all know that heartbreak. I lost my sweet Kara in August, at only age 8, and boy it was sudden. I still cry :smcry: 

When we got Kara from the breeder, a few weeks following the breeder told us, that her wittle wittle brother, was available, and strong enough to be placed in a home. Because we had Flakey our other fur-baby, and then just got Kara, and Flakey was 10, we thought it would be way too much on him with two babies nipping at his tail.

Kara had to be the most sweetest baby girl ever. She brought smiles to everyone...honestly...I worried sometimes if her tail would fall off, she wagged it so much. Oh how I kept kicking myself for not getting her brother....almost everyday.... :smcry: 

But I promise you, that haveing a sibliing for your little one, will bring both of you so much joy. I never thought of breeding Kara, or any of my babies, I just know, I don't have what it takes :smcry: I don't even think I could withstand a heat, even though it's nature, I think I still would pass out, seeing it. But then again, when the babies get their needles...I am curling up in a ball, hoping the dont' cry :smcry: :smcry: 

Oh how I know the fear of loosing them, and you always want to have a part of them with you, but you always will.
Having your baby have a sibling, will bring you so much joy, and that little sibling, will also have a very special quality, all to it's little self. Although Maltese are the same breed, each and everyone, have something just a little unique, and just a little more special.

Thank you so much for being so open, and thank you so much for not breeding that precious jewel, who is a beauty. I don't know anything about breeding, but I know that it is scarey, and things could go very wrong. 

I browse the rescue pages, and their was a pet owner, who loved their little yorkie so much...thought he was so cute...so they bred him, and during the breeding process, he got stuck , and needed medical attention, and then ended up in rescue.

So once again, bless you for asking and accepting :grouphug:


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

I look forward to seeing your pedigree as well/
Welcome to SM and for being so open and taking all this advice in.
I am also so sorry about Peaches :grouphug:


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## harrysmom (Sep 28, 2007)

Hi!

Teddy and Harry have adorable harness vests from your website. 
Now that I've added a third malt... I'l have to stop by and order another vest soon.

Welcome to Spoiled Maltese.

Debbie


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Did you actually visit Lilli's breeder or did you buy her from a pet store or internet website? The reason I ask is that Oklahoma is one of the top puppymill states in the United States.

There is a Martha Henbest, Nightstar Kennel, from Caney, Oklahoma on the USDA "puppymill" list. There is also a Pat Pearce, Pat's Pups, from Caney on the list.

http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/ListA2006.pdf

If Lilli came from a puppymill, she should not be bred. High volume commercial kennels don't do any genetic screening or health testing and don't make any attempt to breed to the standard. Dogs with unknown backgrounds should never be bred. Puppymill dogs can pass along all sorts of genetic conditions to their offspring. They are also pretty far from the breed standard and only good representatives of the breed should be bred to insure that Maltese will continue to look the way Maltese are supposed to.


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Mar 3 2009, 07:14 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=738038


> Did you actually visit Lilli's breeder or did you buy her from a pet store or internet website? The reason I ask is that Oklahoma is one of the top puppymill states in the United States.
> 
> There is a Martha Henbest, Nightstar Kennel, from Caney, Oklahoma on the USDA "puppymill" list. There is also a Pat Pearce, Pat's Pups, from Caney on the list.
> 
> ...


No, I can assure you - Miss Lilli will not be having any babies. I have already began our search on Petharbor.com, petfinders.com et cetera or another love to bring home. Oh no, I surely hope my Miss Lilli was not a part of a puppy mill. She is from Oklahoma and I am now scared. My sister brought her back from Caney for me. I did pull her paper from the bank and here it goes:

The Breeder is: Mary Lunsford
Her name is: Princess Lilli, registration number B07-YX-AH-36779E
The Dam is: Queen Annie Morgan, registration number K03-AZ-AH-32555A 
The Sire is: Hershey The White Boy, registration number L05-YZ-AH-34510B
America's Pet Registry

Oh my, I surely do hope she was not from an abusive situation. This will just kill me.


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (Harrysmom @ Mar 3 2009, 04:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737971


> Hi!
> 
> Teddy and Harry have adorable harness vests from your website.
> Now that I've added a third malt... I'l have to stop be and order another vest soon.
> ...


Debbie, that is wonderful to hear. Use coupon code lilli for 10% off your next order! I love to hear my customers are happy!


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (Allheart @ Mar 3 2009, 02:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737952


> :grouphug: Aw bless you for not only asking, but accepting the answers from those that truly know. :grouphug:
> 
> I am deeply sorry about Peaches. We all know that heartbreak. I lost my sweet Kara in August, at only age 8, and boy it was sudden. I still cry :smcry:
> 
> ...




Thank you so much for the support! Losing Peaches was so very hard. I can not wait to find our new baby. Maltese are just so adorable and Miss Lilli is just so wonderful. I can not wait to have two! I really appreciate all the help!


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (I Found Nemo @ Mar 3 2009, 02:30 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737954


> I look forward to seeing your pedigree as well/
> Welcome to SM and for being so open and taking all this advice in.
> I am also so sorry about Peaches :grouphug:[/B]


Thank you, I do so love your avatar - it makes me laugh! Here is the information I have found regarding our Lilli. I am beginning to worry, seeing that she came from one of the States known for puppy mills! That will just sadden me. I do not know how to research the below information and I do hope that something can be found about her. I just hope she is alright and does not have any pre factors for health issues due to who she is related to.  

The Breeder is: Mary Lunsford
Her name is: Princess Lilli, registration number B07-YX-AH-36779E
The Dam is: Queen Annie Morgan, registration number K03-AZ-AH-32555A 
The Sire is: Hershey The White Boy, registration number L05-YZ-AH-34510B
America's Pet Registry


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Mar 2 2009, 09:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737846


> Now you're making me die with curiousity - who is your cutie from/out of? You can't just speak of great lineage and then not give it up, LOL![/B]



Hi, I pulled her papers and this is what it states,

The Breeder is: Mary Lunsford
Her name is: Princess Lilli, registration number B07-YX-AH-36779E
The Dam is: Queen Annie Morgan, registration number K03-AZ-AH-32555A 
The Sire is: Hershey The White Boy, registration number L05-YZ-AH-34510B
America's Pet Registry

I hope she is not from a puppy mill!


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 3 2009, 06:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=738327


> QUOTE (I Found Nemo @ Mar 3 2009, 02:30 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737954





> I look forward to seeing your pedigree as well/
> Welcome to SM and for being so open and taking all this advice in.
> I am also so sorry about Peaches :grouphug:[/B]


Thank you, I do so love your avatar - it makes me laugh! Here is the information I have found regarding our Lilli. I am beginning to worry, seeing that she came from one of the States known for puppy mills! That will just sadden me. I do not know how to research the below information and I do hope that something can be found about her. I just hope she is alright and does not have any pre factors for health issues due to who she is related to.  

The Breeder is: Mary Lunsford
Her name is: Princess Lilli, registration number B07-YX-AH-36779E
The Dam is: Queen Annie Morgan, registration number K03-AZ-AH-32555A 
The Sire is: Hershey The White Boy, registration number L05-YZ-AH-34510B
America's Pet Registry




[/B][/QUOTE]


:grouphug: Since being on this wonderful site, I have learned so much. And so much more to learn.. :grouphug: 
My two come from home breeders...yes, backyard breeders...clean loving homes...and I have their pedigree....and I am sure...somewhere along the line...the breeding probably started with pet store babies...which...more then likely came from puppymills. . This will be my 4th and 5th Maltese. I really don't want to research their pedigrees, because chances are...I wouldn't be happy. My best advice to you...would be....just keep those vet appointments...and don't look back.
When you have your baby spayed, they do run blood work, and there are additional test, that can be performed, just to make sure, all is well.

It may not be how it is in your case.........but I would just stick close with your vets office, and love what your baby is today, as there is not much we can do now, with how the special ones arrived. But at least we are wiser. :grouphug:


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

APR is a "puppy mill registry" ie it is used by unscrupulous breeders so that the dog "has papers". Regardless of where she came from, you have a lovely girl! Enjoy her! For her health, spaying is advisable. It helps prevent some cancers, ovarian cysts, and uterine infections (which can be very deadly). Your doll will be much healthier for it! Good job on asking some questions before going ahead with breeding her. You are making a very good decision for her health to spay her.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 3 2009, 07:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=738329


> QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Mar 2 2009, 09:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737846





> Now you're making me die with curiousity - who is your cutie from/out of? You can't just speak of great lineage and then not give it up, LOL![/B]



Hi, I pulled her papers and this is what it states,

The Breeder is: Mary Lunsford
Her name is: Princess Lilli, registration number B07-YX-AH-36779E
The Dam is: Queen Annie Morgan, registration number K03-AZ-AH-32555A 
The Sire is: Hershey The White Boy, registration number L05-YZ-AH-34510B
America's Pet Registry

I hope she is not from a puppy mill!


[/B][/QUOTE]

http://www.aprpets.org/ 
I searched Maltese, and there is only one breeder in OK. Is that Lilli's breeder?
The 'User Photos' on their website look like they're from old film cameras...but they're still adorable!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (JMM @ Mar 3 2009, 07:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=738341


> APR is a "puppy mill registry" ie it is used by unscrupulous breeders so that the dog "has papers". Regardless of where she came from, you have a lovely girl! Enjoy her! For her health, spaying is advisable. It helps prevent some cancers, ovarian cysts, and uterine infections (which can be very deadly). Your doll will be much healthier for it! Good job on asking some questions before going ahead with breeding her. You are making a very good decision for her health to spay her.[/B]


JMM is right. APR was established by the retail pet industry, the puppy mills and brokers. It states so right on their fact page:

https://www.aprpets.org/FAQs.html

As Jackie said, the only purpose of that registry is to provide someone who purchases a puppy "papers". The papers mean nothing, don't even guarantee the puppy is purebred. :thmbdn: 

I'm glad you're decided not to breed Lilli and get a rescue instead!


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (JMM @ Mar 3 2009, 04:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=738341


> APR is a "puppy mill registry" ie it is used by unscrupulous breeders so that the dog "has papers". Regardless of where she came from, you have a lovely girl! Enjoy her! For her health, spaying is advisable. It helps prevent some cancers, ovarian cysts, and uterine infections (which can be very deadly). Your doll will be much healthier for it! Good job on asking some questions before going ahead with breeding her. You are making a very good decision for her health to spay her.[/B]






Nooooooo, please. nooo.  I am going to let Miss Lilli's vet know tomorrow. That should be known within her file. I will discuss a time to have my baby spayed. This is so sad, not for me, but for her - to know that her family has probably been abused. This just kills me. And here I thought because her mom was named Queen...I though she was from royalty. She is still my Princess :wub2: and thank goodness I asked such a silly question last night. There is a reason for everything and I am glad that you all were here to help me find things out - THANK YOU TO ALL!


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Mar 3 2009, 04:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=738356


> QUOTE (Marilyn Muttroe @ Mar 3 2009, 07:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=738329





> QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Mar 2 2009, 09:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=737846





> Now you're making me die with curiousity - who is your cutie from/out of? You can't just speak of great lineage and then not give it up, LOL![/B]



Hi, I pulled her papers and this is what it states,

The Breeder is: Mary Lunsford
Her name is: Princess Lilli, registration number B07-YX-AH-36779E
The Dam is: Queen Annie Morgan, registration number K03-AZ-AH-32555A 
The Sire is: Hershey The White Boy, registration number L05-YZ-AH-34510B
America's Pet Registry

I hope she is not from a puppy mill!


[/B][/QUOTE]

http://www.aprpets.org/ 
I searched Maltese, and there is only one breeder in OK. Is that Lilli's breeder?
The 'User Photos' on their website look like they're from old film cameras...but they're still adorable!
[/B][/QUOTE]


You know I went onto the apr website and Mary Lunsford is not even on the list - ther are three others on the list in Caney, OK., but not her.


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

Oops - Actually, there were three breaders for Maltese, the one in Oklahoma is called;

OKLAHOMA Jaco Kennel WONDERFUL REGISTERED MALTESE PUPPIES 

This is just so disheartening. Those places are just an abusive environment!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Unfortunately, most of the breeders in Oklahoma are puppymills. :thmbdn: 

Lilli is just a little doll. Get her spayed and just enjoy her as a pet.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

I'm late in getting in on this thread... but wanted to first say your little girl is adorable! 

I'm soooo glad you have decided to spay her .... she will have a better chance of avoiding serious health issues down the road. When I first got our Missy who we lost in 2005, she was sooo precious I'd never have wanted to risk her life by breeding her. ( I have no knowledge whatsoever about welping etc) . 

Don't agonize over where she came from but instead realize that your little girl is still the precious treasure as before you were 'enlightened". In a way good you know.. now you will be extra diligent.. getting reg blood panels, check ups etc to help her have a good healthy life. 

As to rescues... My two are absolutely wonderful little pooches! I couldn't ask for sweeter! I give myself a pat on the back for making the decision to bring them into my home and heart.... I adore them! 

There are sooo many little maltese out there needing a loving home. I'm sure that you could provide exactly that to one of these deserving little souls!


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## Marilyn Muttroe (Feb 23, 2009)

QUOTE (Maidto2Maltese @ Mar 3 2009, 07:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=738499


> I'm late in getting in on this thread... but wanted to first say your little girl is adorable!
> 
> I'm soooo glad you have decided to spay her .... she will have a better chance of avoiding serious health issues down the road. When I first got our Missy who we lost in 2005, she was sooo precious I'd never have wanted to risk her life by breeding her. ( I have no knowledge whatsoever about welping etc) .
> 
> ...


Thank you - she is just a darling. I love her know matter what. Your babis are adorable! I am looking at the rescues and will be at Lilli's vet tomorrow. Thanks again!


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## babygirlmom (Jul 3, 2007)

Your baby is just adorable! Doesn't matter where she came from...she is so lucky to have you as a Mommy to love & dote on her. So many of us are just plain uneducated to BYB & the repercussions of it. It's a dirty little secret out there that somehow needs to come to an abrupt halt! I am just thankful for people like you, Deb, Steve & Peg who come to the aid of all these precious rescues!

Bless you all!


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