# Imperial Maltese



## susy (Jun 19, 2006)

This is in no way to disparage mixed breeds but just a heads up on an irresponsible breeder who is claiming that she has created a new breed- the Imperial Maltese:

http://www.designerdogsregistry.com/ddr/index.php

Basically, all she has done is crossed five different breeds (including maltese) over the course of nine years and now claims that she has a new breed. And now she is encouraging others to breed her imperial maltese puppies!

I don't care whether a dog is mixed or purebred but I do care that she is encouraging irresponsible breeding.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Susy, I agree with you about irresponsible breeders and hate the term Designer dogs!

........but isn't the pic on that website the most darling thing!!


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## susy (Jun 19, 2006)

> Susy, I agree with you about irresponsible breeders and hate the term Designer dogs!
> 
> ........but isn't the pic on that website the most darling thing!!
> 
> ...



They are very cute! I just worry that the poor things will be exploited.b


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

That is the name of a Maltese breeder's kennel (or whatever they call it). Josymir Imperial Maltese


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

How does one even know if the pic on the site is truly of these breedings?

Her information is false from the get go. Shame on her. I sent her a brief 

note stating her information on crossbreeds is false. Anyone can create a

registry and call a mutt a new name. How much study does that take? lol


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## ddarlingfam (Mar 30, 2006)

> That is the name of a Maltese breeder's kennel (or whatever they call it). Josymir Imperial Maltese[/B]



I called the lady and it is an imperial shitzu and maltese mix. she is not Josymir

Amber


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

Well it's a cute puppy and it looks very much like a Shih Tzu to me, I prefer our darling little white Malts any day.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=217722
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> ...


Oh, I wasn't saying it was her. Sorry guess I didn't word that how i ment. When I saw the name Imperial Maltese I was like I've seen that before. I did a search and found the maltese breeder. I was like she stole the breeders name!

Sorry brain is fried for the family issues.


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

I think those little puppies are soooo gorgeous.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

They are cuties..


Andrea~


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> They are cuties..
> 
> 
> Andrea~[/B]


And gorgeous and awhhh, cuchy coo. But ain't that taking lemony ears a bit far ?


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## Carole (Nov 1, 2005)

> How does one even know if the pic on the site is truly of these breedings?
> 
> Her information is false from the get go. Shame on her. I sent her a brief
> 
> ...


I am calling HER a few names under my breath . . .ggggrrrr


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=217742
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## ddarlingfam (Mar 30, 2006)

oh I forgot to post about my conversation, she said she was waiting on the adults and was planning on breeding in the fall and pups were $500.00. I asked what breeds she mixed and at first she said imperial shitzu and chin then she corrected herself and said shitzu and maltese. oh and at first she sounded like she didn't know what I was talking about I had to tell her the imperial maltese you have a website on? and then she was like oh ok. hmmmmmm.....sounds like a broker to me.

Amber


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

* I still want a black Maltese.







Now to that request I want to add a non tangle coat too, please.*



*enJOY!
Melanie*


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

"We are offering this breed to reputable breeders only. These dogs are protected against puppy mills and irresponsible breeders. All off-spring must be registered through DDRC. If a problem arises from over-breeding we will not hesitate to call the humane society. Periodic checks will be made ."

[/color] 

This makes me so mad and disgusted, I want to puke.


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## KimKarr (Feb 4, 2006)

But how do you REALLY feel, Linda???


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## tag (Aug 26, 2004)

That little guy looks like a Mi-ki. I think they are a newer breed too and are a combination of a few different small breeds from what I have read. Who knows any more... sheesh

Mi-Ki Profile


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

> But how do you REALLY feel, Linda???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Kim - you got me!!
















Sh*t like this really gets me, as you can tell!


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## Laceys mom (Nov 12, 2004)

I got my Lacey from Josymir. The breeders name is Josy and I can tell you that she is wonderful. 

I ran across the other lady a few years ago when I was looking for a maltese. Same lady, so she has been at this for at least a couple of years.


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## TheButtercup (Mar 3, 2005)

> "We are offering this breed to reputable breeders only. These dogs are protected against puppy mills and irresponsible breeders. All off-spring must be registered through DDRC. If a problem arises from over-breeding we will not hesitate to call the humane society. Periodic checks will be made ."
> 
> [/color]
> 
> This makes me so mad and disgusted, I want to puke.[/B]



GMTA... i was actually copying this from her site and then read your reply....where is the barfing smilie when you need it???

they'll call the humane society? which one? and for WHAT reason could they POSSIBLY have??? 





































ann marie and her self-inflicted migraine


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

Okay so I have a question??
Don't bash me as I don't know anything about breeding ( And I will bash ya back.LOL)
But if the mom is a healthy Maltese(You know the background) and the dad is a healthy Shitzu(Spell check) and you know the background what is so wrong in breeding them and starting a new breed of dog










Just help me understand.. and don't get me suspended..










Thanks,
Andrea~


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> Okay so I have a question??
> Don't bash me as I don't know anything about breeding ( And I will bash ya back.LOL)
> But if the mom is a healthy Maltese(You know the background) and the dad is a healthy Shitzu(Spell check) and you know the background what is so wrong in breeding them and starting a new breed of dog
> 
> ...


I'll take your back on this one Andrea.
The Maltese was originally quite different and bred as a working dog. 


> As the Maltese was developed using miniature spaniel and poodle blood, and was primarily bred as a hunting dog, they were much larger in size than their present-day counterpart. When the smaller-sized Maltese began to gain ground in popularity, early breeders would often confine their breeding stock in pens too small for them to even turn around, so as to promote a smaller progeny.[/B]


The "down-sizing" continues into Elizabethan days when Maltese were called "Comforters".



> Maltese were first imported into Britain during the reign of Henry VIII. They were certainly favorites in the time of Queen Elizabeth I, and were eagerly accepted by the British aristocracy. British Queens would serve the most choicest of foods from golden vessels to their Maltese pets. The cleanliness and dignified bearing of the modern-day Maltese stems from the fact that for centuries, they were the "lap dogs" of the people of culture and wealth.
> 
> Maltese dogs appear in British literature and they have been immortalized by famous British artists. Queen Elizabeth's personal physician, Dr. Johannus Caius, one of the most respected and frequently-quoted canine historian of all time, comments about the Maltese:
> 
> "There is among us another kind of high bred dog...That kind is very small indeed, and chiefly sought after for the pleasure and amusement of women. The smaller the kind, the more pleasing it is, so that they carry them in their bosoms, in their beds, and in their arms while in their carriages."[/B]


*Source*. 
But the info. can be found in several places on the web.

The Brits have a lot to answer to - sorry.














The Maltese, way back in history, was, itself, a new breed of dog, just like many of the terrier breeds that were inter-bred to produce the characteristics needed for a specific "job". 

My major objection to what this person is doing is The Almighty Dollar/Pound/any other currency. These dogs are, apparently, being inter-bred for no other reason than to make them look different and trendy and a "must have accessory" for the likes of Paris Hilton, Geri Halliwell and the rest of those types of women who like to be seen out and about with the latest fashion. If that's the case, I don't think it's right at all


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=218208
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I understand what you are saying but how do we know she is doing this for the money?

Help me to understand too fellow UKanian.

What if she is getting all the health checks done, genetic stuff & all that & is being responsible then why not create a new breed of dog after all our ancestors did the same.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=218208
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Thanks Lorraine!!!

Andrea~


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## eyespy (Jan 31, 2006)

Here are some links about breeding and genetics--they make for very interesting reading...

canine genetics


more canine genetics

and a little about maltese history:

by Lee Weston
The Maltese is one of the oldest breeds with origins that center around the island of Malta in the Mediterranean Sea. This breed was known to the sea faring civilizations of the Normans, Arabs, Romans, Carthaginians, Greeks and the Phoenicians. It is not known what the Maltese's exact origins are; whether the Phoenicians introduced the dog to the island of Malta, or if the Phoenicians discovered this dog as an indigenous species to Malta and used it as barter throughout the known world. The breed was brought to China by the Phoenicians and it was the Chinese who kept this breed in existence through the Dark Ages of Europe. The Maltese is credited as being a contributor to other canine varieties by virtue of its being its own type. 
 The island of Malta, in the time of the ancient world, was a financial and trading center as well as a cultural melting pot to three continents. Empire-building civilizations took turns conquering and occupying this island because of the trade wealth, the connections to countries that grew spices, produced silks, mined gemstones, and those countries that bought these items. This island in the middle of a sea was literally the center of the civilized world at that time. The little dog of this island captured the hearts of a distant time, and after the passing of 2,500 to 3,000 years, it continues to be an elegant, captivating, and beloved dog of modern times. 
The Greeks described the Maltese as, "A cloud floating through the sky"(credited to Aristotle). Greek art, dating back to the 4th and 5th centuries B.C., depicted the Maltese in ceramics, sculpture and paintings. The Maltese was a part, and partner, of the Golden Age of Greece. 
The Romans boosted the role of the Maltese to that of a status symbol and a fashion statement. Another name for the Maltese in Rome was 'the Roman Ladies' Dog'. It is thought that the Romans made the Maltese the world's first "fad dog". The Maltese, already known for its loyalty to its owner, became the physical symbol for loyalty. The latin word for 'trust', fido, was applied to the Maltese. 
It is known that sailors from succeeding empires would carry these dogs with them to use in trade for articles of value in the ports of call. These dogs became well known and popular amongst the ruling aristocracy of many nations, including England, Turkey, and China. 
The Maltese has an affinity to lying on its owners' lap, and the warmth that radiates from the dog actually does lend some comfort to people with sensitive, or delicate, stomachs. The nickname for this dog is the "Comforter Dog". During the Middle Ages, the Maltese was kept in bed to draw away the fleas, which for most people, definitely would be a comfort. 
It is not known exactly when the Maltese found its way to the United States, however, by the late 1800's this breed was well established within the show community. In 1906 the Maltese Terrier Club of America was organized. It should be noted here that the Maltese is not a terrier. Exactly how they came up with this name is unknown. In 1917 this club changed its name to the National Maltese Club, and later, it was changed again to the Maltese Dog Club of America. By 1950, there were two clubs of consequence in the U.S., the Maltese Dog Club of America and the Maltese Dog Fanciers of America. In 1961 these two clubs merged to form the American Maltese Association. In 1969 the American Maltese Association gained recognition from the American Kennel Club, and became the parent club for the breed. 
The breeders of the Maltese are very proud of the fact that their breed is one of the healthiest breeds, genetically speaking. To accomplish this takes dedication, hard work and a deep abiding love for their dogs, and these breeders should be congratulated on a job well done. Due to their efforts we have a beautiful dog that predates written history and is cherished today by men and women alike.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

But if both parents are healthy and have no genetic defects ..Then why is it wrong?
They can only produce healthy pups(And I am not talking about this woman in particular ..)
Just in general..

Thanks,
Andrea~


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> I understand what you are saying but how do we know she is doing this for the money?
> 
> Help me to understand too fellow UKanian.
> 
> What if she is getting all the health checks done, genetic stuff & all that & is being responsible then why not create a new breed of dog after all our ancestors did the same.[/B]


I don't "know" that she is just in it just for the money, which is why I said stuff like "apparently" and "if that's the case". However, as far as I can see she is not claiming that she has inter-bred to give the dogs the greater strengths and health benefits that can come from diversity. She does say though she has deliberately bred the "panda" markings around the eyes to "camouflage" the tear stains. Can't see them... don't exist... no need to keep clean... until the yeast and other infections click in, that is.

On the other hand, maybe she is on an ego trip:


> We developed this toy breed--we named it and we have created an exclusive registry for the Imperial Maltese in order to maintain a record of all off-spring.[/B]


I'm playing devil's advocate here


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

I found the first link interesting reading!

Overuse of *popular sires * leads to increased genetic problems!

Could this be the reason why we are seeing more Maltese dying at such a young age?


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

> I found the first link interesting reading!
> 
> Overuse of *popular sires * leads to increased genetic problems!
> 
> Could this be the reason why we are seeing more Maltese dying at such a young age?[/B]


Yes Elaine,
That is what I was thinking!! You just word it better









XO Andrea~


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## susy (Jun 19, 2006)

> Okay so I have a question??
> Don't bash me as I don't know anything about breeding ( And I will bash ya back.LOL)
> But if the mom is a healthy Maltese(You know the background) and the dad is a healthy Shitzu(Spell check) and you know the background what is so wrong in breeding them and starting a new breed of dog
> 
> ...



I think my major objection is that she is going about this the wrong way if she really does want to establish a new breed. First, she is already calling her dogs a "breed." In biological terms, a breed is a subspecies which produces true offspring of the same type. I figure at most, she probably has five or six generations which is not enough to create a breeding stock- a more accurate term would be a strain which is a variant of a species having the same bloodline. 

Second, it looks like she is going about this in a disorganized manner. Someone mentioned the Mi-Kis. The original breeder of the Mi-Ki didn't keep good documentation and now the current breeders are having a more difficult time in working to establish the dog as a purebred. The founding breeders of the International Mi-Ki registry are doing a lot to ensure the future of the breed- all of their puppies have their DNA profiled by the UKC, they have several health tests, and they keep stud books. This is all done to ensure that they are producing sound puppies that conform to the written standard that has been established for the breed and that the owners will have documentation that they are getting a Mi-Ki. So I guess my questions are- if she really wants to establish a new breed and is recruiting breeders- what records will she provide the breeder- DNA, pedigree, health tests? What is the standard for the breed- what type of puppies should the new breeder aim to produce? What kind of contract is she selling the puppies with- will future breeders also be required to do tests and keep documentation to ensure that they are producing Imperial Maltese? 

So I really don't have any objection to creating mixed breed puppies, but if you are going to create a new breed why not educate yourself about it, be open about your documentation, and really really stringent about the breeders you select? The scientific community will love you and the purebred dog clubs will be much more willing to work with you to get your breed to be an acknowledged breed. Maybe she has done all the tests, but I can't help but be a little skeptical since she doesn't provide too much information to the would-be breeder.

Sorry, this is long-winded. I'm a biochemist- I can't help but go on and on and on about genetics, lol. BTW, I am in know way bashing people who didn't know much about breeding (I still consider myself in that category, except for bacteria).


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

> My major objection to what this person is doing is The Almighty Dollar/Pound/any other currency. These dogs are, apparently, being inter-bred for no other reason than to make them look different and trendy and a "must have accessory" for the likes of Paris Hilton, Geri Halliwell and the rest of those types of women who like to be seen out and about with the latest fashion. If that's the case, I don't think it's right at all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


According to what was posted about the history of the Maltese breed by you and another poster, that's precisely why we have the Maltese we have today. It was the "must-have accessory" of British Royalty in the time of Queen Elizabeth, and way before that, it was the "must-have accessory" of the Roman high society. 

One area that I do know a fair bit about is Economic History, and for a moment I am going to put the Maltese into a categorization that I realize has a lot of negative connotations for most people around here: that of a commodity. Throughout most of history the breeding of dogs was approached very much from the standpoint of today's puppymillers; i.e., that of a commodity for which to maximize revenues and minimize expenses. The reason people bred Maltese and other "high society" dogs back in the days of the Roman Empire and Queen Elizabeth I was because people of wealth and power created a demand for them and they could fetch a pretty penny for the merchant. What held them to the standard of the day was not a set of written guidelines but what people of means were willing to pay for and wanted in their hot commodity. If the Ladies of the Queen's Court desired Maltese with babydoll faces, that's what the local merchants strived for. If they wanted smaller noses, curvier tail..whatever- that's what the local merchants aimed to produce. We do not even want to think about the lives of the breeding stock for the greedy merchants of the Elizabethan and Roman eras, let alone the lives of the "merchandise" that was deemed less-than-desireable by local nobility...But I digress. What is tantamount to this discussion is that, with most toy breeds we have today, it was unfortunately about the almighty dollar and what was fashionable to people of high society for most of recorded history. 

That doesn't mean it is acceptable for people to think of breeding animals with that sort of framework in today's world, however, but I remain unconvinced that the woman in question *is* bowing down to the almighty dollar. And I don't think there's any evidence to say that she intends people to not exercise proper hygiene with regards to these animals, as in just because the breed is designed to camoflouge tearstains doesn't mean that people wouldn't take proper care of their animals and allow eye infections as a result. When people talk about breeding the proper eye structure to facilitate adequate drainage in the area to help mitigate tearstains, I don't see people getting upset and making comments about it then being okay to never clean the eye area and cause nasty eye infections as a result. Both are simply breeding solutions to the same undesirable characteristic.


_(Except Paris Hilton would never want one of these Imperial Maltese to walk around with - they weigh more than three pounds and everyone knows that growing past three pounds means you get dumped at Mother Kathy's, ala "Tinkerbell" & "Bambi.")_


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

JEEZ!! Now I am even more confused....lol


Andrea~


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

> JEEZ!! Now I am even more confused....lol
> 
> 
> Andrea~[/B]


Did I confuse you? I don't want to confuse anyone!


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

Lucida.ann - i think you explained things very well & i agree with your way of thinking









Whats your thoughts on overuse of *popular sires*?


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

> Lucida.ann - i think you explained things very well & i agree with your way of thinking
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's Elaine, right?

Thank you for the compliment.

My preliminary thoughts based on the information from sites like http://www.canine-genetics.com/ are that it potentially presents a conundrum. On the one hand, there are certain genes and traits that are considered desirable "improvements" upon the breed, and on the other hand, breeders run a substantial risk of inadvertently exposing their offspring to all sorts of health problems if the gene pools are heavily restricted.

I think I got a lot of good input in the thread I started that was an offshoot of Chandra's post of the breed standards for the Maltese concerning what people mean when they talk about improvement of the breed. I would almost be tempted to say that the problematic backyard breeders who oftentimes produce offspring that are outside of the standard could potentially be doing the breed a favor by offsetting some of the problems associated with the restricted genetic pools that often result from the overuse of popular sires. But if I would say something like that, I would also want to temper it with a statement that I imagine the Maltese breeders who are considered ethical by the majority of Maltese aficionados would be educated enough to pay very close attention to the pedigrees of the dogs they are breeding to avoid dangerous inbreeding practices.


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

I think they are darling.


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> What you said ...[/B]


I don't want to further extend this thread by double quoting what you said but I will take it paragraph by paragraph and ask you to consider whether we actually agree or not. 

para 1- According to what was posted...
My point exactly. They did it, probably, because they knew no different. The Maltese is/was a mixed breed. In the 21st Century we have the opportunity and the medical, genetic and empirical evidence to re-consider such practices.

para 2 - One area that I do know about is economic history...
Agreed. The breeding in of specifics (by the ancients) to meet the demands and whims of those who could pay has brought us to the situation we are in today and the breeding of toy breeds was most definitely about the almighty dollar, way back then. But, perhaps, a similar situation extends to this day with "teacups" and the like.

para 3 - That doesn't mean it is acceptable... 
Agreed. The woman in question may not be bowing down to the almighty dollar as I tried to explain in my follow-up post. I didn't see any evidence that she intends people not to exercise proper hygiene with regard to the eyes. But I did see evidence that she had bred for a "cosmetic enhancement" for the tear staining and was using that aspect as a significant marketing point. She may be doing her best to control breeders of these dogs - but what about the end-users of this commodity? How is she going to control them ? Now in terms of "when people talk about breeding proper eye structure..." I'm afraid you've got me there. I didn't find that on her website - could you point me to that comment? I have to say, however, I am slightly disconcerted at her minor rant, on the About page, against people who have been e-mailing her. It crossed my mind that "she doth protest too much" and that a more professional approach would have been to ride out the storm and let her dogs and their progeny speak for what she is trying to achieve.

para 4 - Except that...
What could happen when people, who have the financial means, demand dogs less than 3 pounds in weight... ?

There may be minor differences in opinion and I have read through what you had to say thoroughly several times. I don't think we are too far apart. 

*********************************************************
To split the thread just a tad.
On the *popular sires* thing, however, I will keep my own counsel other than to recommend considering the pros and cons of mixed breeds and the difficulties in determining the genetic make up of both parents' and their antecedents, particularly when the paternal parent (as is so often the case) may be unknown. Popular sires are, to my way of thinking, dogs that have been judged by many people as good examples of the breed. Their owners/breeders are more than likely to be acknowledged experts in the breed, pedigrees, genetics. Of course there are also popular sires within the BYB/miller/brokerage businesses. They are the overworked little boys, living in a harem and allowed to perform on any female whether or not that union may be out-breeding, line-breeding or just plain in-breeding. 

Edit: I was late coming back to this thread but I don't think we are too far apart on this aspect either.


**********************************************************
And yes, they are very good looking dogs. I just may get one myself but that will be several years down the line when their breeding, pedigrees and genetics have been established. Perhaps not even until they are an acknowledged "breed" rather than a strain as has been explained on this thread and accepted into the registers and standards of the various Kennel Clubs throughout the world. 
I'll get my coat, then


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

I was joking>>>


But now I am really confused...

Don't worry I will figure it out, just takes me a little longer


















Andrea~


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

> I don't want to further extend this thread by double quoting what you said but I will take it paragraph by paragraph and ask you to consider whether we actually agree or not.[/B]


That's very considerate of you. I will endeavor to do the same (with regards to spatial considerations).

It's clear to me that we do agree on the major points and what I am doing is splitting hairs over the finer ones. I should give fair warning that happens to be a tendency of mine, and it is at times viewed by others as "nitpicking," but it's my sincere intention to engage in a thoughful analysis. So if at any time someone perceives my comments as an attempt to always be right, please speak up - that's not my intention and I will try to be aware of how I'm coming across to others. Anyhow back to those paragraphs..

I do agree that breeders of yore didn't know differently, but I also don't think they really desired to, either. That's not unique to the practice of breeding dogs, though, as I can think of a number of areas where "knowing better" was not historically a priority. And yes, definitely that is the case with today's "teacup" breeders.

I also agree with you in regards to any "rants" she may have posted on her web site in response to criticisms. It seems to me that the thing to do to try and win over your critics is not to attack them but for that breeder to calmly and rationally explain why she thinks their points/opinions are non-issues. A successful advocate is a diplomatic advocate for sure. 

I don't know that this breeder used the language "when people discuss facial structure," - those were my words. But there are a couple of threads here where someone has mentioned that it's possible to create a facial structure that minimizes the chance for any tear-staining due to enhanced drainage capacity, and I view that as a cosmetic change because tearstains, while considered by most as aesthetically undesirable, do not pose any health threats that I am aware of.


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

*VERY interesting reading indeed.*



*I have never heard or read this part before... now I know I have to go on deeper hunts for history.*



*"*As the Maltese was developed using miniature spaniel and poodle blood, and was primarily bred as a hunting dog,*"*



*So if Maltese have been around since before written history, how is this known? DNA?*



*Help me learn also please.*



*enJOY!
Melanie*


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

*lucida.ann*
Please nitpick away. I'm quite good at it myself but I have no nits to pick at this response.
The tear-staining issue is somewhat close to my heart, however, as my first dog, a Rough Collie (working and trials dog), had several health/bacterial problems because of a blocked tear-duct in one eye. My current dog is a Westie, a breed somewhat prone to tear-staining but she is totally free from it, thank goodness, even though her beard does get stained from saliva and food. 

When I started researching Maltese and realised tear-staining was an issue, I was concerned. Not because of the cosmetic aspects but because of the time aspects of dealing with it several times a day if necessary. Fortunately, I now find myself more or less retired and with ample time to bathe (and whatnot) around the eyes. So I am happy I will be able to deal with the hygiene requirements of my new Maltese, if necessary . My initial sarcasm, cynicism, irony, if you will, was based on camouflaging tear-stains rather than trying to breed cranial (or whatever) structure to help to alleviate them.

Nice to make your acquaintance. 


*MissMelanie*
The history of the Maltese is fascinating. It's thought to be about 8,000 years old. It's a bit of a cop-out by me, but here is a *Google search* if you want to delve deeper. Of course you have to expect opinions to differ


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

It is good to understand things a little more although i do find it a little mind boggling









Thankyou Lucida.ann & Lorraine.

Regarding Popular Sires, from what i interpret from the genetic web page is that using the same sire does reduce the genetic strengths thus resulting in so many dogs in todays line of breeding being affected with diseases, either byb or ethical breeders. It is quite natural for this to happen as it would if it were humans that were line breeding.


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> It is good to understand things a little more although i do find it a little mind boggling
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where dat dancin' chicken come from ?


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

Do you like it, you can have it if you want it!

I thought it was kinda funny & laughable.


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> Do you like it, you can have it if you want it!
> 
> I thought it was kinda funny & laughable.[/B]


It's great fun and very eye-catching. I've been trying to think up something. I enjoy messing with animations although I do take a long time working out all the frames.


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## dogloverx3 (Apr 14, 2006)

WHO KNEW - OMG - I thought Princess Charlotte was merely a maltese x shih tzu BUT NO - she is indeed an IMPERIAL MALTESE . Imperial -hmmm - or is that imperious ? Princess Charlotte certainly is imperious in nature . This is NOT a new cross breed in Australia - I got my first one 17 years ago . Did you know Kyi Leos ( maltese x lhasa apsos ) have been bred since the 1970's . Sarah P.S By the way - it is a well documented fact that certain dogs have been bred into pure bred lines to obtain a certain breed standard - the shih tzu was bred with the pekingese in the early days for the flatter face .


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> By the way - it is a well documented fact that certain dogs have been bred into pure bred lines to obtain a certain breed standard - the shih tzu was bred with the pekingese in the early days for the flatter face .[/B]


Then there are the Cavalier and Cavalier King Charles Spaniels. Selective breeding led to two quite different types in terms of size, shape of head and length of muzzle etc and two separately registered breeds with their own standards. Thank goodness it did not destroy the temperament. When the mood takes them, both can exhibit a certain "imperious-ness" too


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## ddarlingfam (Mar 30, 2006)

> Okay so I have a question??
> Don't bash me as I don't know anything about breeding ( And I will bash ya back.LOL)
> But if the mom is a healthy Maltese(You know the background) and the dad is a healthy Shitzu(Spell check) and you know the background what is so wrong in breeding them and starting a new breed of dog
> 
> ...




from this point in the thread I got lost







I don't know about breeding or the history of breeds or anything like that. What I do know is that I called the lady and she is selling the pups for 500.00 since that is so inexpensive I doubt she is doing any testing. She didn't even seem sure of what dogs where in the "new breed" in my opinion she is out to make a fast buck.

Amber


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=218208
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Hi Amber,

I really was not talking about this lady in/particular .. I was just wondering in general.. 

Sorry I confused you, but I was confused..







as I always am



Andrea~


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## ddarlingfam (Mar 30, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=218859
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i think we are both in the same boat andrea









Amber


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

> from this point in the thread I got lost
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Selling the pups for $500 could mean that she's cutting corners, or it could mean that she's so devoted to the breed that she wants to make it as enticing for people to give it a chance as she possibly can so she is subsidizing the costs out of her own pocket for the time being.

Also, it has often historically been the case when a "new" breed is being developed that the "inventor" is reluctant to tell anyone the exact breed composition without a privacy agreement. For all the woman knows you are a puppymiller who is eager to jump the trend. It's not necessarily what is happening here, but I did want to throw it out as a possiblity nonetheless.


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

Taking a hint from Sarah, Mum to the amazing Princess Charlotte, I flittered around some of the UK-based "Pups for sale" websites. There are many mixed breed pups of this "type" being advertised, but few with pictures good enough to re-produce.

These charming little souls, said to be Maltese x Shih tzu, are being offered for £600 (sterling) each. They were ready to go on 16 June but are still being advertised.

[attachment=9249:attachment]

The breeder is said to be a Kennel Club member (wow there are only 1500 maximum of those). May be the breeder is a Kennel Club Associate, but would have to be very active and extremely well respected in a number of canine activities to achieve associateship. The breeder also posts quite a lot of ads. for pure bred small dogs of several breeds, runs an equine farm/stud and is active in eventing. Seems quite commercial to me. 

I think the picture shows how different the size/markings/colouring can be in a single litter (which this purports to be). It may also show the kind of indiscriminate breeding that the owner of the Designer Dogs website claims to have stamped out with her selective breeding programme. The problems I have are:
Designer Dogs showcases two dogs and a single puppy. 
If the person Amber spoke to is the owner/primary breeder, I too cannot understand how Amber's enquiry was answered as stated in her first post on this thread ( #14).
The website contains a telephone number which does tend to suggest someone who knows what they are talking about will answer the phone, if only to establish which application form to send out. If Amber spoke to a member of staff, then the owner really does need to think about serious human-training.
And... The Colonel Sanders people may well zealously guard the recipe for his fried-chicken coating, but it is frequently emulated throughout the world and many have found there more delicious and healthier versions available. 

Just my 2p worth.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

> Taking a hint from Sarah, Mum to the amazing Princess Charlotte, I flittered around some of the UK-based "Pups for sale" websites. There are many mixed breed pups of this "type" being advertised, but few with pictures good enough to re-produce.
> 
> These charming little souls, said to be Maltese x Shih tzu, are being offered for £600 (sterling) each. They were ready to go on 16 June but are still being advertised.
> 
> ...


 

you are so friggin informative!!


















Andrea~ ( This thread is teaching me, and I am learning)...


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> ... you are so friggin informative!!
> 
> 
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Or... just an an*l-retentive... a well known side-effect of sitting on fences


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## dogloverx3 (Apr 14, 2006)

Hi , that is like no other maltese x shih tzu litter that I've ever seen , those look to have some terrier in them . Maltese x shih tzus only cost about $300.00 in Australian dollars . Vets LOVE this cross breed ( my boyfriend actually is a vet ) - the head of our R.S.P.C.A reccommends them as a great family dog ( oh , and he's a vet too ) . Health wise they are known to be incredibly hardy with a fantastic nature . Princess Charlotte is from a multi generational line , bred by a vet - stretching back years . I think I will always own one , because in 17 years of owning this cross I have had zero health complaints . Here is what the litter should look like Sarah


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

> And... The Colonel Sanders people may well zealously guard the recipe for his fried-chicken coating, but it is frequently emulated throughout the world and many have found there more delicious and healthier versions available.
> 
> Just my 2p worth.[/B]


Yes, well a little competition never hurt anybody, did it? In a capitalist society, it means higher quality and lower prices. Who could argue with that?


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

> Hi , that is like no other maltese x shih tzu litter that I've ever seen , those look to have some terrier in them . Maltese x shih tzus only cost about $300.00 in Australian dollars . Vets LOVE this cross breed ( my boyfriend actually is a vet ) - the head of our R.S.P.C.A reccommends them as a great family dog ( oh , and he's a vet too ) . Health wise they are known to be incredibly hardy with a fantastic nature . Princess Charlotte is from a multi generational line , bred by a vet - stretching back years . I think I will always own one , because in 17 years of owning this cross I have had zero health complaints . Here is what the litter should look like Sarah
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 What precious puppies!!!


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

> Hi , that is like no other maltese x shih tzu litter that I've ever seen , those look to have some terrier in them . Maltese x shih tzus only cost about $300.00 in Australian dollars . Vets LOVE this cross breed ( my boyfriend actually is a vet ) - the head of our R.S.P.C.A reccommends them as a great family dog ( oh , and he's a vet too ) . Health wise they are known to be incredibly hardy with a fantastic nature . Princess Charlotte is from a multi generational line , bred by a vet - stretching back years . I think I will always own one , because in 17 years of owning this cross I have had zero health complaints . Here is what the litter should look like Sarah
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sooo cute!!!!


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## Boobookit (Dec 3, 2005)

OK, I know I am a bit late on answering this one but I am a bit confused. I haven't finished reading everyone's response but...Hwo can anyone call them, although they are cute, Maltese?? If they are a cross between many different breeds then come on with a different name for them...they are not Maltese.

Am I being dense here??

Marie & Pacino


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## dogloverx3 (Apr 14, 2006)

Hi , you're not being dense - a maltese x shih tzu is a cross breed NOT an Imperial . In Australia that cross has been going for 20 years - it isn't a breed yet !!! Sarah


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## Boobookit (Dec 3, 2005)

Thanks for the answer and your furbaby is beautiful!!

Marie & Pacino


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## Lacie2 (Sep 23, 2005)

> Hi , you're not being dense - a maltese x shih tzu is a cross breed NOT an Imperial . In Australia that cross has been going for 20 years - it isn't a breed yet !!! Sarah
> 
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I just wanted to say that you pup is one of the cutest I have ever seen.


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## Linus McDuff (Jul 12, 2006)

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Isn't she? I think it's those eyes!


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