# "detoxification" while starting raw food diet??!!



## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

Has anybody's dog gone through a sort of Detoxification when starting a raw food diet? 

I switched Riley off of Canine Caviar... and started feeding Orijen Six Fish... and decided to also go ahead and try some premade raw... I chose Primal. after about a week of eating it, his fur is a bit dry and he is a bit itchy... I then decided to go ahead and try some Stella & Chewy's... thinking since it has less veggies he wouldn't be so itchy... 

I am now reading about a Detoxification period some dogs may go through.... He is a teeny bit itchy and his ears are a little red and Warm deep down.... and he has been shaking his head a teeny bit. I had fed raw once before and I think the same thing was happening in the beginning and that is when I decided to start feeding Canine Caviar.

Soooo Just wondering if anybody's pup had gone through any type of detoxification... and how long did it last. He seems to have more energy so I really want to try and stick with the premade raw. I gave him a teaspoon of Coconut Oil with his dinner.


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## maltese manica (Nov 6, 2012)

I am really not to sure about feeding raw and what the whole process is................ but I can tell you I fed my three Acana then switched to Orijen and mine had problems with itching................... they are now eating Canine Cavaiar and what a huge diffrence in them................


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

maltese manica said:


> I am really not to sure about feeding raw and what the whole process is................ but I can tell you I fed my three Acana then switched to Orijen and mine had problems with itching................... they are now eating Canine Cavaiar and what a huge diffrence in them................


CC is a good food for a lot of dogs but due to my own personal dealings With them on more than one occasion I refuse to feed it. I had Just ordered 2 of their 4.4lb bags. I called Chewy.com Told them my situation And that I have decided to feed something else And they said they would refund my money 100% and Asked that I just donated two bags to a local shelter. 

After just 4-days of the Stella & Chewys he is running around with double the energy... :chili:


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

When I switched to raw a few years back, Lacie did not have a detox period.


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

I have 5 that i'm feeding raw and i have changed foods quite often with them just to see what worked best for them and we've never had a detox period, but i know that each dog is different and some do have detox period.


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

Thanks Everybody!!

He already isn't as itchy and his ears aren't red and warm anymore... :aktion033:
It's possible it could be environmental from our longer walks now that it is getting cooler outside. He Looooves Grass!! I try my best to keep him out of it though... he is pretty hypersensitive.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Feeding raw is still pretty new to me but from what I was told by both Primal and Stella and Chewy's, it's pretty common for a detox period. Especially if the fluff was eating mainly a kibble diet. But my understanding is that the signs of detox is usually with stools with some mucous, or what looks like a chalky colored casing on the outside of the stool. I'm wondering if your thoughts of it being more environmental may be correct. And if that's the case, being on raw should really help with that given time.


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Feeding raw is still pretty new to me but from what I was told by both Primal and Stella and Chewy's, it's pretty common for a detox period. Especially if the fluff was eating mainly a kibble diet. But my understanding is that the signs of detox is usually with stools with some mucous, or what looks like a chalky colored casing on the outside of the stool. I'm wondering if your thoughts of it being more environmental may be correct. And if that's the case, being on raw should really help with that given time.


Yeah.... I am starting to think that!! 
He is now running around with Double the Energy!! :chili: LOL!!!!

I couldn't find anything on Stella & Chewy's website about Detoxification, but Primal has a whole paragraph about it where it says something about discharge from the eyes and excess wax in the ears. His eyes were a teeny bit more watery but that has not subsided a little more as well... and his ear are much better. 

I have been feeding S&C since this past Saturday afternoon and I Really Like... Riley gives it a Two Paws Up!! I placed a Darwin's order a week ago, which ships tomorrow, so while waiting for it, I went and bought the Stella & Chewy's... 

We are going to Florida Nov. 9th. I am going to pick up more Stella & Chewy's today and there is a store down in Florida that sells it. I don't want to switch him up since he is doing so well... so I will give the Darwin's a try once we get back from Florida. :thumbsup:


Here is what Primal says:

Detoxification
As you begin to introduce your pet to this new diet, you may notice changes in physical appearance. Do not be alarmed. This is simply the natural process by which pets heal themselves by eliminating toxins from the body. Discharge from the eyes, excess wax in the ears, loss of coat, minor skin rashes and soft, loose stool are just a few of the common signs. By gradually transitioning Primal raw foods, you will allow your pet's body to adjust properly. We suggest consulting your pet's practitioner during the transition process.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

RileyDC said:


> Yeah.... I am starting to think that!!
> He is now running around with Double the Energy!! :chili: LOL!!!!
> 
> I couldn't find anything on Stella & Chewy's website about Detoxification, but Primal has a whole paragraph about it where it says something about discharge from the eyes and excess wax in the ears. His eyes were a teeny bit more watery but that has not subsided a little more as well... and his ear are much better.
> ...


Totally missed that paragraph on Primal's page!! Good to know. :thumbsup:

I have to say that I'm seeing a pretty dramatic change in energy level as well in my 3. Especially Jett. That boy's becoming a Tessa! lol (Sorry Maggie. You know I love my Tessa. :wub: ) I'm also noticing some changes in their body. All 3 of mine are at a perfect weight when you feel their ribcage, spine and look at their waist and tuck up. However all 3 are actually heavier then they've ever been! They are SOLID! I think what is happening is that they are gaining more muscle mass. It will be interesting if anyone else has or will observe this. Or maybe mine were just out of shape. lol


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Totally missed that paragraph on Primal's page!! Good to know. :thumbsup:
> 
> I have to say that I'm seeing a pretty dramatic change in energy level as well in my 3. Especially Jett. That boy's becoming a Tessa! lol (Sorry Maggie. You know I love my Tessa. :wub: ) I'm also noticing some changes in their body. All 3 of mine are at a perfect weight when you feel their ribcage, spine and look at their waist and tuck up. However all 3 are actually heavier then they've ever been! They are SOLID! I think what is happening is that they are gaining more muscle mass. It will be interesting if anyone else has or will observe this. Or maybe mine were just out of shape. lol


We had the same weight thing happen when Lacie was eating raw. She looked the same and her ribs, spine, tuck up, etc. were just right but when we weighted her she was heavier which I also attributed to muscle mass. Vet thought we was perfect.


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

UUUGGHH!!

I don't get it!! 
I went and got more of the Stella & Chewy's duck, yesterday because he was doing so well on the introductory bag. I opened the new bag this morning and gave him 2 patties. About 2 hours later, he kind of removed himself and went onto the bed... which he does when he's not feeling all that great. I then noticed he was kind of shaking his head. I look and sure enough his ears are all Red!! His ears stick straight up, as you can see in his Avatar... so when I say they are red, I mean, you can stand in front of him and see the whole inside is red.... :huh:

Will see how they are when I get home....
I may have to stick with the Orijen Six-Fish?!?! Instead of trying to feed raw.....!?!?!


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

RileyDC said:


> UUUGGHH!!
> 
> I don't get it!!
> I went and got more of the Stella & Chewy's duck, yesterday because he was doing so well on the introductory bag. I opened the new bag this morning and gave him 2 patties. About 2 hours later, he kind of removed himself and went onto the bed... which he does when he's not feeling all that great. I then noticed he was kind of shaking his head. I look and sure enough his ears are all Red!! His ears stick straight up, as you can see in his Avatar... so when I say they are red, I mean, you can stand in front of him and see the whole inside is red.... :huh:
> ...


Is there anything in the Stella's Duck Duck Goose that he has not had before? He could be allergic to one of the ingredients. The nice thing is there aren't tons of ingredients in it so it will be easier to try and figure out if that's the case. Also, I would call Stella and Chewy's directly and let them know what is happening. Since they've been doing this for so long, they most likely will know what to do.


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Is there anything in the Stella's Duck Duck Goose that he has not had before? He could be allergic to one of the ingredients. The nice thing is there aren't tons of ingredients in it so it will be easier to try and figure out if that's the case. Also, I would call Stella and Chewy's directly and let them know what is happening. Since they've been doing this for so long, they most likely will know what to do.


Thanks Crystal!!

I just copied and pasted all of the ingredients for it into a word document, as well as the Orijen and the food he was eating before, which was the canine caviar. I am doing to make a chart to see what new ingredients there are... Yes, it is good that there aren't a whole lot of ingredients. He was getting like that with the Primal which is why I stopped feeding it and switched. I Swear I have Never had such a sensitive pup. I just went home at lunch to check up on him... He's doing okay... but i can tell he's not feeling great. It may be a looong weekend!! =/ and we leave for Florida Sat. the 9th for 5-days. I hope he is all clear and feeling better before that!!


Again, it is possible that it is environmental I suppose.... it was just strange it popped up a couple hours after he ate.
It is "Almost" making me want to Home Cook!!

I think I will call S&C, to see what they suggest.

Thanks, Again! And, thanks for listening to me!!


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Is there anything in the Stella's Duck Duck Goose that he has not had before? He could be allergic to one of the ingredients. The nice thing is there aren't tons of ingredients in it so it will be easier to try and figure out if that's the case. Also, I would call Stella and Chewy's directly and let them know what is happening. Since they've been doing this for so long, they most likely will know what to do.


I called S&C. The Rep who answered the phone was Very Helpful!! She said to call the place where I got the food and take it back in and exchange it for another protein. She said he may have done well on it in the beginning but then perhaps it became too much... I am going to call the store shortly. :thumbsup: Perhaps I will get one bag and a store credit for the rest.


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## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

Honestly Theresa with all the problems you have had with Riley and food, have you thought of consulting a holistic vet? They can help you with a true elimination diet to really find out what is causing the problem and being holistic they may have some great ideas (at least I would hope they would) about raw feeding and what brands to use, or how to do home cooked or home made raw.


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

shellbeme said:


> Honestly Theresa with all the problems you have had with Riley and food, have you thought of consulting a holistic vet? They can help you with a true elimination diet to really find out what is causing the problem and being holistic they may have some great ideas (at least I would hope they would) about raw feeding and what brands to use, or how to do home cooked or home made raw.


 
Thank you so much for your response!! 

Yeah... I have thought about that recently, for sure. 

We are going to FL next weekend for 5-days and when I get back I am going to make some appointments. His vet gave me 10-pills of Prednisone to use if his allergies got real bad... 1/2 dose twice daily for 3 - 4 days, as needed... but I really do Not want to use them unless I Have to.

I was even Googling some this afternoon and was reading on Food Energetics and Allergies. It was talking about Yin and Yang and Neutral, Cooling, Warm and Hot Foods. Avoiding the Warm and Hot... Turkey is a warm to avoid and the S&C Duck has Turkey in it. Who Knows!!?? 

Here was the article:

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/allergies-food-energetics/


I really would like to get to what the cause is... if there is some Underlying problem... Also, these episodes can not be good for his little body let alone his liver...


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## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

RileyDC said:


> Thank you so much for your response!!
> 
> Yeah... I have thought about that recently, for sure.
> 
> ...


Interesting article, thanks for posting the link. I know how frustrating it is to have a dog that has problems with foods. I would love to have my boys on the honest kitchen full time but something in many of the mixes does not agree with Rocky. At first I thought it was just the beef formulas, so maybe it was beef-but he can handle other beef foods just fine.

I would love to see a holistic vet here, but my husband thinks they are quacks. I'm trying to expand his horizons (open his mind) to other foods like raw and things like holistic treatments but the most I've gotten so far is an eye roll. 

I look forward to hearing more about Riley's progress with the food, and also to his visits with a holistic vet, if you choose to do so.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

RileyDC said:


> Thank you so much for your response!!
> 
> Yeah... I have thought about that recently, for sure.
> 
> ...


Actually, turkey is a cold food. There are many charts out there saying what foods are cold and what foods are hot and what foods are neutral that say different things. Both of my holistic vets are in agreement with what foods are cold, hot and neutral. Duck is also a cold food. Rabbit and Cod are also cold foods. Chicken, Venison and Lamb are hot foods. And Beef, sardines, salmon, mackeral and catfish are considered neutral. But I've found beef too rich for many toy breeds and you need to transition slowly to beef. There are many great raw foods out there that are perfect for dogs with allergies. But I would definitely seek out a holistic or integrative vet. I really hate Prednisone and would only use as an absolute last resort. Be sure to wean him off of it if you do use the Pred. You have to taper them off slowly. There are so many other things you can try holistically that will not cause any harm.


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Actually, turkey is a cold food. There are many charts out there saying what foods are cold and what foods are hot and what foods are neutral that say different things. Both of my holistic vets are in agreement with what foods are cold, hot and neutral. Duck is also a cold food. Rabbit and Cod are also cold foods. Chicken, Venison and Lamb are hot foods. And Beef, sardines, salmon, mackeral and catfish are considered neutral. But I've found beef too rich for many toy breeds and you need to transition slowly to beef. There are many great raw foods out there that are perfect for dogs with allergies. But I would definitely seek out a holistic or integrative vet. I really hate Prednisone and would only use as an absolute last resort. Be sure to wean him off of it if you do use the Pred. You have to taper them off slowly. There are so many other things you can try holistically that will not cause any harm.


It's all pretty interesting! I actually get pretty fascinated by dog nutrition. I think that while I'm on the beach next weekend I will be reading up on a lot of stuff...

I don't know why but I was thinking that I would think Turkey was a cold food... and I would think beef would be moreso at least a warm food... LOL!!
Not sure how Riley would do with Beef. He did have a reaction to Primal Beef about a year and a half ago. It was awful... so I definitely stay away from Lamb.

I went and exchanged the Stella & Chewy's Duck for their Rabbit formula. 
Will see how he does on that one.


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

shellbeme said:


> Interesting article, thanks for posting the link. I know how frustrating it is to have a dog that has problems with foods. I would love to have my boys on the honest kitchen full time but something in many of the mixes does not agree with Rocky. At first I thought it was just the beef formulas, so maybe it was beef-but he can handle other beef foods just fine.
> 
> I would love to see a holistic vet here, but my husband thinks they are quacks. I'm trying to expand his horizons (open his mind) to other foods like raw and things like holistic treatments but the most I've gotten so far is an eye roll.
> 
> I look forward to hearing more about Riley's progress with the food, and also to his visits with a holistic vet, if you choose to do so.


I suppose it could be worse?!?! At least he's keeping everything down and not necessarily Sick, That way. [Wait... Can I take that back?? I don't want to Jinx myself...!! :blink: ]

I will definitely keep you posted...


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

I found this from Dr. Karen Becker's website:

There are several natural ways to reduce 'itis' or inflammation in your pet.

Quercetin. One of the things I recommend at my clinic for allergic dogs and cats is starting on a quercetin supplement before allergy season. Quercetin is a bioflavonoid with anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties. I call it ‘nature’s Benadryl’ because it does a great job suppressing histamine release from mast cells and basophiles.

Histamine is what causes much of the inflammation, redness and irritation characteristic of an allergic response. By turning off the histamine production with a quercetin supplement, we can suppress or at least moderate the effects of inflammation.

Quercetin also has some other wonderful properties. It inhibits 5-lipooxygenase, an enzyme that upregulates the inflammatory cascade. Quercetin inhibits the production of leukotrienes, another way the body creates inflammation, thereby decreasing the level of bronchoconstriction. Bronchoconstriction occurs in the lung fields as a symptom of asthma. Quercetin can actually suppress how much constriction occurs.
Bromelain and papain. Bromelain and papain are proteolytic enzymes. Bromelain is derived from pineapple; papain comes from papaya. These enzymes do two things. First, they increase the absorption of quercetin, making it work more effectively. They also suppress histamine production.

One of the reasons I use quercetin, bromelain and papain together is they also suppress prostaglandin release. Prostaglandins are another pathway by which inflammation can occur. By suppressing prostaglandins, we can decrease the pain and inflammation associated with irritated mucous membranes and body parts. Using the three substances in concert provides some natural pain and inflammation control.
Omega-3 fatty acids. Another thing I recommend is optimizing an allergic pet’s omega-3 fatty acid balance in the diet. Optimizing the ratio of omega-6s (primarily found in vegetable oils) and omega-3s (primarily found in fish body oils) is extremely beneficial for overall health. Omega-3s are very sensitive to heat and light, so their presence is minimal in frozen raw food, canned food and dry pet food – any processed food and especially any exposed to high temperatures.

Since omega-3 fatty acids help decrease inflammation throughout the body, adding them into the diet of all pets -- particularly pets struggling with seasonal environmental allergies – is very beneficial. The best sources of omega 3s are krill oil, salmon oil, tuna oil, anchovy oil and other fish body oils.
Coconut oil. I also recommend coconut oil for pets with seasonal environmental allergies. Coconut oil contains lauric acid, which helps decrease the production of yeast. Using a fish body oil with coconut oil before inflammation flares up in your pet’s body can help moderate or even suppress the inflammatory response.


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

Hello Ladies!! HAPPY FRIDAY!!!! :chili:
We leave for Florida in the morning!! So Excited but have a LOT to do beforehand. Trying not to stress about it. lol

So update on Riley:
He did not seem to be getting any relief from the Redness and he was looking a little miserable.... so, in order to try and knock it out as much as possible, before out trip, I started him on the Prednisone his regular vet had given me this past Sunday night... To be honest it wasn't really looking like that was doing a whole lot, except making him zombie like and a teeny bit aggressive... Like he Knows where he treats are, and he was definitely making it known that he wanted one! LOL!!
So I weaned him off of it and gave him his last teeny dose Wednesday Morning. I stopped all raw, for now and have been feeding him Kibble until he gets all cleared up. 

I was giving him Orijen, but decided... I have No Idea Why Exactly.... to switch him back to Acana Pacifica, which he has eaten, before. The store 1 1/2 blocks from me carries it so I stopped by there on the way home from work and he ate it last night for dinner and again this morning for breakfast. So Far, So Good... I bought some Grizzly Salmon Oil and have been adding a little to each of his meals. 

I also picked up some Vets Best Ear Relief - Wash & Dry:

Vet'S Best Ear Relief Wash And Dry Kit by Vet's Best - Buy Vet'S Best Ear Relief Wash And Dry Kit 2 Kit at vitamin shoppe

His ears don't need to be "Cleaned"... they are pretty Clean... they really just need some relief from the redness.... They don't seem to be As Red and he doesn't seem to be As Pink. I decided yesterday I am going to try and stop obsessing about it and stop flipping him over constantly checking... LOL!! I am wondering if getting out of DC and down to Florida will clear him up. Will be interesting to see.... hoping it doesn't go the other way and he get worse. :blush:

Hoping everybody has a Great Day!! 

Theresa & Riley


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Hope it goes well for you. I remember you were talking about consulting with your holistic vet when you get to Florida. I think that is an excellent idea. Allergies are hard in that what works for one doesn't always work for another. For most dogs, you start with grain free foods (anti-inflammatory diet) and slowly work up to double the recommended amount of fish oil and a good probiotic. Then there are so many things you can try to help with allergies. Below is a list of things I carry and have used on a variety of customers. Sometimes it takes trying a few things or even a combo of things to find what actually works. And there is so much more out there then just this tiny list.

Organic Virgin Coconut Oil
Animal Essentials Detox Blend
Herbsmith's AllerQi
Answer's Raw Goats Milk
EarthHeart's GuardWell (Essential Oil Spray)

I'm also wondering given your fluff's history, if perhaps he has had so much going on for awhile now that you need to transition to frozen raw much slower then normal. Maybe with just a pea size into his normal food for a week and then 2 pea size peaces for a week, etc.... Just a thought.

Again, hope you both get some relief!!


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Hope it goes well for you. I remember you were talking about consulting with your holistic vet when you get to Florida. I think that is an excellent idea. Allergies are hard in that what works for one doesn't always work for another. For most dogs, you start with grain free foods (anti-inflammatory diet) and slowly work up to double the recommended amount of fish oil and a good probiotic. Then there are so many things you can try to help with allergies. Below is a list of things I carry and have used on a variety of customers. Sometimes it takes trying a few things or even a combo of things to find what actually works. And there is so much more out there then just this tiny list.
> 
> Organic Virgin Coconut Oil
> Animal Essentials Detox Blend
> ...


Hi Crystal!!

Thank you so much!! I am soaking in as much information as I can... :thumbsup:

It makes Me miserable to see him miserable... I can't wait to get home and see how he's doing!! I bought some Nutiva Organic extra virgin coconut oil about a week ago. I can't say enough good things about it. I used to use it a Lot for him, internally and externally... but ran out months ago. I haven't opened this new one yet. 

Do you think it is okay to give him Omega 3's one meal and some coconut oil in the next meal?


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Glad Riley is feeling a bit better . I just wanted to comment that every dog is different. Some dogs simply don't tolerate raw while others thrive on it. You just have to find what type of food works for Riley. There is nothing wrong with not feeding a 100% raw diet  just my opinion - nutrition is individualized based on the dog's needs and level of tolerance. You can try homecooked or dehydrated food if you want to try other things than kibble. My dogs prefer the taste of homecooked over any form of raw.

Additionally, just wanted to warn about Quercetin (and other natural meds)--- one must be very careful in using these in conjunction with other meds. Quercetin can alter the way the liver processes other meds so you should always consult a vet before starting ANY supplement. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

hoaloha said:


> Glad Riley is feeling a bit better . I just wanted to comment that every dog is different. Some dogs simply don't tolerate raw while others thrive on it. You just have to find what type of food works for Riley. There is nothing wrong with not feeding a 100% raw diet  just my opinion - nutrition is individualized based on the dog's needs and level of tolerance. You can try homecooked or dehydrated food if you want to try other things than kibble. My dogs prefer the taste of homecooked over any form of raw.
> 
> Additionally, just wanted to warn about Quercetin (and other natural meds)--- one must be very careful in using these in conjunction with other meds. Quercetin can alter the way the liver processes other meds so you should always consult a vet before starting ANY supplement.
> 
> ...


Great post!! There are some very innocent herbs, blends and supplements that can be given without fear as long as you use as directed. But there are others that truly need to be given under the direction and observation of a vet who is knowledgeable in alternative medicines. And then when you start to combine them with others....it's just important to know that herbs and supplements even though natural, are still medicine. 

And I completely agree that one food is not the perfect food for all dogs. I'm still experimenting with frozen raw for my 3. They started out doing so well on it that I didn't transition as slowly as recommended. I let their 'poop' be my guide so to speak. Now I wish I had continued to go more slowly in the transition. After the initial few weeks of perfect poops, we went to sticky, tar like poops. Then we would have some perfect ones along with the sticky ones. And all 3 of them have their coat thinning. I've been to my holistic vet who said normally he would take them off the raw by looking at their coats. But other then their hair, they're in better shape then they've ever been. Muscle tone has increased, stronger pulse, better energy, etc... So after verbally consulting with my integrative vet, we're continuing on with the raw. But I'm a bit anxious for when it's time to run a liver panel on them. And until I see their coats back to a nice thick coat again, I'm going to be anxious and watching like a hawk.


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## RileyDC (Apr 20, 2011)

Hello Ladies,

So we are back from Florida. Had an Awesome time.... Riley was a little red off and on and a little on the Hot side.... I kept him on the Orijen Six-Fish kibble the whole time... and have been feeding it the past couple of days morning and night. He seems to Really Love it. He will eat it plain, with no topper.... and "Finally" his Redness is starting to go away... even his ear are clearing up. It's only taken about 4-weeks this time. :blink:

I still have some of the Stella & Chewy's freeze dried and frozen raw... Rabbit. I also now have the 10lb trial frozen raw from Darwin's. 

For now I am feeling comfortable keeping him on the Orijen kibble until he is completely in the Clear... then perhaps I will Slowly introduce some raw and see how that goes.


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