# Very bad scare



## Kay (Jun 3, 2005)

We had a terrible experience a few days ago. My Maltese and I were visiting my mother and a neighbor's dog suddenly very viciously came after my dog. If I had not had my dog on a leash and the patio gated, I'm sure he would have killed my dog. The dog that attacked runs off leash with other big dogs and seems to get along well with them. Thank goodness that this was one time the owner had him on a leash.

I was talking to my dog's breeder and he said to keep the Maltese away from big dogs. He said that some bigger dogs will turn on a small dog and kill it regardless of how friendly they seem with other dogs their own size. I've had two nights of nightmares now reliving the possibilities.

I don't even want to socialize my dog now. I'm scared to death for him to be around anything larger than 10 pounds anymore.

By the way, I had to hold my little lion-hearted 7 pounder back. He also got aggressive in return and tried to go after the big dog. I understood his anger completely - I wanted to go after the dog, too, but I'm not 7 pounds. By the way, this big dog wasn't a normally vicious breed - it was a golden retriever but the terribly vicious way in which it came after my dog reminded me of a pit bull. So I'm just posting this FYI. I'll never trust another dog around my dog again.


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## puppylucy (Jan 8, 2005)

I'm sorry that had to happen. How scary! I once had a fresh-off-the-track greyhound come after my happily bouncing Lucy, apparently because she looked like the little bunny that they chased. 

But don't let one bad experience with a big dog ruin big dogs for you forever. Many, many big dogs are gentle with Lucy. I'm not saying to let your little boy run free unprotected with a field full of huge dogs, but.. give them a chance.


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## Teddyandme (Feb 6, 2005)

Kay,

I walk in the park every single day with my little one and always have him on a leash...he loves bigger dogs, who am I kidding he loves everything and everybody. But I have noticed that if we are not walking up to the dog and Teddy walks by from behind or comes around a corner...the bigger dog seems to think Teddy is lunch...Someone said that they might believe our little ones are rabits or squirels. This makes perfect sense to me because Teddy is known to hop a bit. 

So, I try and be very careful when approaching any animal so that the animal knows we are there and friendly. 

Teddy would just be devasted if I did not take him out every day to socialize with his friends...we have met so many others who also walk everyday...and even now walk with certain people every day. He looks forward to it...and will start nagging if I don't get moving in his time frame...
















Just know that at any second...he could get reeled right up into Mommy's arms which is why a harness is so much safer than a collar.

Susan


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## Holliberry (Feb 5, 2005)

I agree that you have to be super careful, especially when food is involved. I dont even give treats to other dogs with mine near if shes not in my arms (she likes to try to steal them). But I'd never keep Phoebe from playing with dogs I know to be gentle, of course supervised. She loves them too much, and we just dont know anyone with a small dog







I actually am babysitting a big one this week and I have never laughed more over Phoebe! Shes in heaven









I'm glad you were there and he was leashed! There was another story on here not long ago with a strangers dog getting out of a car in the neighborhood. Very very sad. As much as we'd love to we just can't predict these things


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

That must have been scary for you, thank goodness nothing happened to your baby.
I have noticed a change in Scooby now that he is a mature adult. He is just so good with other dogs but it is other people he is beginning to distrust.
Yesterday we were in a pet store and a nice lady came in with a sweet little Malt girlie in her arms. Well Scooby was beside himself and wanted to meet the little girlie of course so I took him over and they did the nose touching and his little tail was wagging madly, then the unthinkable happened, the lady went to pet him on the head and he snarled so loud at her that she got a fright.







I was horrified and told him he was very naughty and promptly moved him away. That poor lady walked off and I am sure she didn't think very well of mr. bossy pants after that.








I have to say though he has never liked anyone other than us picking him up and even though he is friendly and outgoing and makes a fuss of anyone he sees, if they try to pick him up he growls and moves out of reach.


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kay_@Aug 4 2005, 08:31 AM
> *We had a terrible experience a few days ago.  My Maltese and I were visiting my mother and a neighbor's dog suddenly very viciously came after my dog.  If I had not had my dog on a leash and the patio gated, I'm sure he would have killed my dog.  The dog that attacked runs off leash with other big dogs and seems to get along well with them.   Thank goodness that this was one time the owner had him on a leash.
> 
> I was talking to my dog's breeder and he said to keep the Maltese away from big dogs.  He said that some bigger dogs will turn on a small dog and kill it regardless of how friendly they seem with other dogs their own size.  I've had two nights of nightmares now reliving the possibilities.
> ...


[/QUOTE]


As someone who does pit bull rescue that comment about pit bulls completely irrated and annoyed me. Check your facts before comments like that. There are many of us trying in vain it seems at times to help save a great breed. Not only from the undeducated public mindset that you have displayed but also from the "owners" and I use that term loosly that see the dogs as a status symbol, somthing to fight abuse and treat as a money makeing machine. The irresponsible owners are ruining it for those of us that love our dogs as much as you love your malt. I know the following is long but it is very interesting if you read it all. 

*statistics can lie, here's the real truth*

Between the years of 1965 and 2001 there were 101 fatalities atributed to "pit bulls" and pit bull crosses. This number is about twice as much as the next highest dog on the list. Sounds really scary, doesn't it? Those simple numbers are blared across the media and pointed to with fervor in courthouses looking to get the "pit bull" banned. The real truth of the matter is much more complicated than a single number. 

First of all let's address the issue of breed. As I have stated before here, the "pit bull" is not a breed, but a 'type' of dog. There are 5 different breeds classified as "pit bull", and approximately another 13 or so that look similar enough to be mistaken for a pit bull even by a more experienced dog-lover. The problem arises when under the stress of an attack the victim or witness incorrectly identifies the breed. In the heat of the moment, any medium-sized short-haired muscular dog is a "pit bull". The dogs in the pictures were called a 'pit bull mix'. See if you can identify the pit bull HERE, and then think how hard it would be to pick if you were being attacked by one of these dogs, or were witnessing an attack. "Because there are so few fatal dog attacks, any error in breed identification can critically affect a breed's reputation. With only approximately 20 fatal attacks in any given year, inaccurate identification of a conservative three or four breeds can result in an approximate 20% margin of error"(1). For example: in 1989 in CA, a man was attacked by a pack of Shepherd/Doberman/unknown mixes that were originally identified as pit bulls, and in 2000 in FL a medium-sized reddish dog chained to a doghouse attacked and killed a child. The newspapers claimed the dog was a pit bull, but the shelter workers and sheriff's department classified the dog as a mixed breed dog, with no predominate breed. That being said, of the 101 fatal bites that occurred, an astonishing 57%, more than half, were inflicted by "pit bull type dogs (this includes anything that was reported to be a pit bull, but was unconfirmed)", 32% by pit bulls, 13% by pit bull crossbreeds, and only 2 bites are attributed to American Staffordshire Terriers. One attack was by a pack of 6 bull terriers that were allowed to roam free, although this attack is so old (1947) it is not included in the statistics. There are NO attacks attributed to the Staffordshire Terrier. (percentages are approximate)

Chart 1: summary of breeds

57% "pit bull" type dogs 
32% pit bull terriers 
13% mixed breed dog with "pit bull" apparant in breeding 
2 attacks American Staffordshire Terrier 
1 attack Bull Terrier 
0 attacks Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Now let us turn our attention to the reasons behind the bites. There are several factors that contribute to a bite. One of the largest impacts on the numbers are chained dogs. "Chaining a dog creates an unnatural and unhealthy environment. Dogs require excercise, mental stimulation and social interaction with either other dogs or with the humans who aquired them. None of these requirements can be met living at the end of a chain."(1) Chained dogs make up 36% of all fatal "pit bull" attacks. The next largest group is dogs running loose, at 21%. (by "running loose" I refer to dogs allowed to run around the neighborhood frequently, not a dog that has simply gotten out). Shortly following this is visitors to the house, at 17%. Almost all the attacks in this category are small children that were left unattended with the unfamiliar dog. Another 9% of attacks occurred when the victim entered the property where the "pit bull" was housed, in most cases by climbing over the fence (or into the kennel in one case). In these cases the dog was defending its territory. There are 9 cases involving dogs used for fighting, 5 cases of dogs used as guard dogs, 2 cases of dogs guarding a place of business, 1 case of a dog used as a murder weapon, 1 case of gross human negligence (mother abandoned days old baby in yard with 2 "pit bulls"), and 1, yes only ONE case of pit bulls turning on thier owner. If you understand the cruelty these dogs are subjected to, it is supprising the numbers aren't higher. "Dogs are tortured, teased and abused in hopes of making them mean. Those refusing to fight or those who lose are horribly killed or left to die in alleyways... People from the worst segments of our society seek these animals out to guard drug houses, intimate other gang members, thwart police action and enhance thier vacuous self-esteem. Any real or imagined viciousness on the part of the Pit Bull breeds pales in comparison to the brutality, callous disrespect for life, and inhumanity of many of thier owners."(1) Also take into consideration the sheer numbers of "pit bulls" and pit crosses there are across the country. Although it its basically impossible to guess the actual population, you can get an idea how many there are, and the type of "quality care" they receive, from these few examples: New York City reports the Pit Bull to be its 3rd most populous dog in 2001, Los Angeles CA reports that 40% and San Francisco CA reports 1/3 of all dogs entering thier shelters are pit bulls or pit crosses, in 1999 the Pennsylvania SPCA reported finding over 4000 pit bulls wandering the streets, most scarred and/or abandonded, and the Michigan Humane Society reported that in only 3 of its shelters over 1,820 pit bulls were destroyed in 2000. It is estimated that there are at least 250,000 pits involved in dog fighting nationwide. The ADBA registered 220,000 American Pit Bull Terriers in 1999, making them the #1 dog in America. It is estimated that The American Pit Bull Terrier and other Bull Breeds make up 9% of the total canine population in the USA, which is more than 55 million dogs in the USA. 


Chart 2: summary of circumstances

36% chained dogs 
21% dogs allowed to run loose around the neighborhood 
17% visitors (usually unattended children) 
9% entered dogs property or territory 
9 cases of dogs used for fighting 
5 cases involving guard dogs 
2 cases of dogs guarding place of business 
1 case of dog used as murder weapon 
1 case gross human negligence 
1 case pair of pit bull type dogs attacked and killed owner
Compared to the sheer number of 'pit bulls' present, the number of attacks is supprisingly small, so why then do we hear about 'pit bull' attacks in the news every other day? 

The media has vast influence over our perceptions of which breeds of dogs are dangerous, as they decide which dog attack stories to publish. With over 4.7 million dog bites recorded each year in the United States and with over 800,000 of these attacks serious enough to require medical attention, the resources for dog-bite stories appear unlimited. Yet, the media seems to delight in Pit bull related stories, so much so, that in their haste to report the latest Pit bull attack story the truth often takes a backseat to sensationalism.

Listed below is a small sampling of inaccurate and misleading media accounts that have caused irreparable damage to the image of Pit Bulls:

Killer Pit Bulls Rip Granny to Shreds New York Post (NYPost.com) Dec. 11, 2002
Pet Pit Bulls Kill Woman, 80, in Her Home The New York Times (nytimes.com) Dec. 11, 2002
[The victim's daughter and granddaughter (owner of the dogs) could not believe the dogs, a female Pit Bull and a male Lab/Pit mix attacked and killed the elderly woman. The family hired a forensic pathologist to review the case. It was determined that although the victim had sustained some dog bites, all the bites were non-lethal and post-mortem. The grandmother was not "ripped to shreds" by the dogs but died from cardiac arrhythmia. Both dogs were eventually returned to their owners.] 

Pit Bull Attack Victim Leaves Hospital WTVO (Channel 17) April 25, 2003
Man Struggles to Recover from Pit Bull Attack WTVO (Channel 17) April 29, 2003
[The man in this case was never bitten by a Pit bull. Indeed, there is no mention of the dog making contact with the man at all. Instead, the man was running from the dog and he ran into the road and "slammed" into a passing van. He sustained serious injuries from the collision with the vehicle.]

Pit Bull Horror New York Daily News February 7, 2004
Pit Bull Mauls 3-Year-Old's Face New York Newsday February 6, 2004
[A Bronx family owned a Boxer dog and a German Shepherd puppy that usually were kept in the basement as guard dogs. Two days before the girl was bitten, the family took in a Pit Bull. The 3-year-old was alone playing with the three dogs when a dogfight started. At this point the girl was bitten in the face by the Boxer (also reported to be an American bulldog). It was later acknowledged that the Pit bull (also reported to be a Pit bull mix and a "pet bulldog") was not involved in the attack on the girl]

Cortland Pit Bull Mauling Death WBNG.com (Channel 12) Dec. 9, 2002
[It was later determined that although the Pit bull participated in the death of 24-year-old Eric Tallman, the dog did not inflict the fatal wounds. The victim died from blunt force injury. It was later revealed that the victim was beaten to death by an acquaintance over a drug debt.]

Barstow Trial Opens in Boy's Death: Pit bulls fatally mauled Cash Carson, 10. The Press-Enterprise May 5, 2001
Murder Charges Filed in Pit Bull Mauling The Associated Press June 17, 2000
[This tragic case of a 10-year-old boy killed by dogs was carried extensively in the media. The dogs were repeatedly headlined as "Pit Bulls". Neither of these dogs were "Pit Bulls". One appeared to be a Pit Bull Mix and the other dog (the male that inflicted the fatal wounds) was clearly a mixed breed dog. Animal Control and photographs of the dog more accurately identify him as a possible Chow/Pit Bull mixed breed.]

Vancouver Girl Badly Injured in Pit Bull Attack CTV News Dec. 23, 2002
[This was a very severe attack and as such garnered much media attention. As a result of more in-depth coverage the breed was later correctly identified as a Mastiff/Rottweiler mixed breed]

Family's Pit Bull Kills Boy, 20, months The Gainesville Sun May 8, 2000
20-month-old Killed by Bull Terrier Naples Daily News May 9, 2000
[This child was not killed by a Pit Bull, nor a Bull Terrier, nor a "family" dog. How the dog came to be labelled a "Pit bull" is unexplained. The owner described the dog to be a Labrador/Mastiff/Rottweiler cattle dog. The dog was used to herd cattle and was kept chained on the property. Animal control and the Alachua Sheriff's office confirm the dog was a mixed breed. Photographs of the dog reveal no discernable breed.]

Another serious problem with the image of Pit Bulls is the over-reporting of Pit Bull attacks vs. other breed attacks. Unquestionably, a disporportionate amount of media attention is given to Pit Bull attacks. One example of this is a recent fatal attack in Detroit by a Pit Bull. This story ran in over 30 separate national newspapers and was also picked up by FOX news, CNN and two British newspapers. Two weeks earlier a man was killed by his German Shepherd Dog and this story ran only in the local community newspaper. Proposed breed specific legislation as the result of an individual severe or fatal dog attack in a community appears to be a phenomena that arises almost exclusively from a Pit Bull or Rottweiler attack. Severe or fatal attacks by other breeds of dogs almost never initiate this kind of response. (2)

One final thing to consider: I previously stated that 'pit bulls' peaked in popularity in the '80s, which was very shortly followed by a peak in bad breeding/bad training/etc. This chart, divided by year, shows there were very few bites, averaging less than one a year, prior to the 1980s, but beginning in the '80s, there has been two peaks in bites. I believe this represents time when after the breed first got its bad reputation and lost popularity, then gained popularity again with thugs, drug dealers, and wanna-be dog-fighters due to the tough reputation they were supposed to have. The 'pit bull' is again on a downswing in bites, and unless any other miscreants decide to trash the breed further, should settle back to its pre '80s average of aprox. 1 bite or less a year.

I believe that these numbers speak for themselves, and presented with the facts behind the statistics, the numbers aren't as scary as they once were. It is apparant that a happy, healthy, well adjusted, well cared-for, loved family 'pit bull' is as good and safe as any other breed.


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## a2z (Aug 23, 2004)

A pit bull just killed a 15-month old girl two days ago in our area.


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## Kay (Jun 3, 2005)

Well, I just can't believe that I irritated someone with that post. I never meant to malign a breed of dog. I was just using it as an example so that people could visualize how bad the attack was. Sorry - maybe I shouldn't post in here.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

Here we go again... :new_Eyecrazy:


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

According to this, Pit Bulls account for nearly a quarter of all fatal dog attacks. 

The news here in North Carolina is full of stories of pit bull attacks. According to this, North Carolina is #8 on the list of fatal dog attacks.

Their "bad rep" appears well earned, at least in this state.


"FATAL DOG ATTACKS"
The Stories Behind the Statistics
by Karen Delise

THE STATISTICS - FATAL DOG ATTACKS IN THE U.S. FROM 1965 - 2001 *

The study covers 431 documented human fatalities from a dog attack.

Location of Attack
25% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by chained dogs
25% resulted from dogs loose in their yard
23% occurred inside the home
17% resulted from attacks by dogs roaming off their property
10% involved leashed dogs or miscellaneous circumstances

Number of Dogs
68% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by a single dog
32% was the result of a multiple dog attack

Victim Profile
79% of all fatal attacks were on children under the age of 12
12% of the victims were the elderly, aged 65 - 94
9% of the victims were 13 - 64 years old

The age group with the highest number of fatalities were children under the age of 1 year old; accounting for 19% of the deaths due to dog attack. Over 95% of these fatalities occurred when an infant was left unsupervised with a dog(s).

The age group with the second-highest number of fatalities were 2-year-olds; accounting for 11% of the fatalities due to dog attack. Over 87% of these fatalities occurred when the 2-year-old child was left unsupervised with a dog(s) or the child wandered off to the location of the dog(s).

Boys aged 1 - 12 years old were 2.5 times more likely to be the victim of a fatal dog attack than girls of the same age.

Breeds Involved
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%), Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).

Reproductive Status of Dogs
Overwhelmingly, the dogs involved in fatal dog attacks were unaltered males.
From 2000-2001 there were 41 fatal dog attacks. Of these, 28 were attacks by a single dog and 13 fatalities were caused by multiple dogs.

Of the 28 single dogs responsible for a fatal attack between 2000-2001;
26 were males and 2 were females. Of the 26 males, 21 were found to be intact (the reproductive status of the remaining 5 males dogs could not be determined).

States with the Most Fatalities - 1965-2001
California, 47; Texas, 32; Alaska, 26; Florida, 22; New York, 19; Michigan, 18; Illinois, 18; North Carolina, 17; Georgia, 16.


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

Define a pitbull type dog please? Part of the biggest problem with these statistic's is that many mixes are thrown in the "pit bull" category. And where are black labs on that list? Right now they are very high on the bite list due to inbreeding and what not. Ask those who work in the vet's office on how many of the VICIOUS dogs that come in there that they have to muzzle, rabies pole and basically pin down to even touch are pits. I bet the answer will amaze you. Ask them what they think of pitties. Ask them what breed tries to bite them the most. Media has skewed the publics view so badly, am staffs and pits are one of the top breeds to pass the CGC. Look at tall the therapy dogs out there that are pitties. Those are the rule not the expeption as so many think.

http://www.sorryagain.com/

Go there and just look. It is a photo site mostly maybe that will help some see past the medias painting of a great breed.


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

Well I have to agree with you on your opinion here Dhorinda, I am sure though that in this instance it was an innocent figure of speech which I chose to bypass in that way.
I do agree though that many people tend to blame a particular breed for all the bad that happens, but it is purely because of the publicity that it gets in the media.
In Australia pit bulls are banned, at least where I come from. Also the Rottweirler has a terrible reputation as well purely because of a few incidents which are given huge media coverage. If a child is attacked by a Rottie the breed is classed as vicious. If the same type of incident occurs with a less known breed there is hardly any mention of what breed of dog was resposible.
I once owned a beautiful Rottie and he was the most gentle loving giant I have ever known. I got him from a reputable breeder who belonged to the Rottie Club and she had to adhere strictly to the rules of the breeding code. These are the only people anyone should consider to purchase a dog from as it is far safer and you can be assured that the dog will grow into a well adjusted and good natured animal provided you spend the time and effort in the training and raising of that puppy. That dog must be socialized properly from the very beginning.
My point in this is, if a dog is properly bred, has resposible owners who train the animal and have full control at all times, no matter the breed that dog will be a pleasure to be near. Don't blame the breed so much as the irresponsible owner who has no control of a dog in a public place. If the laws were that only responsible breeders were allowed to breed particular breeds using careful selection of bloodlines to have healthy, good natured animals there would be no problems. It is the back yard breeders who spoil it for all of us by breeding their dogs to any carelessly bred male or female purely to supply the demand and make money.
I feel that a dog with a nasty disposition often reflects not the breed so much as the person who bred it and the person who has raised it to be the way it is.
I do hope you agree with at least some of what I have said.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kay_@Aug 4 2005, 11:01 AM
> *Well, I just can't believe that I irritated someone with that post.  I never meant to malign a breed of dog.  I was just using it as an example so that people could visualize how bad the attack was.  Sorry - maybe I shouldn't post in here.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=87110*


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Don't fret.... I know what you meant and I sure hope you will continue posting here and I very much appreciate your letting us know of what happened to you.


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Aug 4 2005, 11:17 AM-->
> 
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Don't fret.... I know what you meant and I sure hope you will continue posting here and I very much appreciate your letting us know of what happened to you.








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=87117
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Please don't feel that you irritated me in any way as I fully understood your point and that it was made simply as a figure of speech. I chose to read it as that myself but I also agree that some good breeds of dogs suffer because of the bad publicity they get. 
Please don't leave, I didn't take offence to your post in any way and I did appreciate your warning very much, and the fact that it was indeed not the type of dog one would expect to have that disposition. It just goes to show that any breed of dog can have that tendency if allowed to run uncontrolled.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Scoobydoo+Aug 4 2005, 10:24 AM-->
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*
*[/QUOTE]

Please don't feel that you irritated me in any way as I fully understood your point and that it was made simply as a figure of speech. I chose to read it as that myself but I also agree that some good breeds of dogs suffer because of the bad publicity they get. 
Please don't leave, I didn't take offence to your post in any way and I did appreciate your warning very much, and the fact that it was indeed not the type of dog one would expect to have that disposition. It just goes to show that any breed of dog can have that tendency if allowed to run uncontrolled.








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=87119
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I agree! I knew what you meant. Please don't leave.







Thank you for the warning.


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

If you choose to leave that is on you, however my irratation isn't with you but your mindset which stems directly from the media's portrayl of pit bulls. I am sure you have never seen a pit bull attack in person but yet that is your expample because "everyone knows they are absolutely vicious". Please understand as someone who has done rescue w/ this great breed for years. I have seen so many unspeakable horrific things done to this great breed, where is the publicity for the guys who put the pit on the bbq grill, or used the 8 wk old pup for bait? They get nothing more than a tap on the wrist because after all it is just a pit bull they are abusing. I have seen countless dogs PTS because there is simply no where to go for them after they were bred to fight and won't. I see shelters full everyday knowing majority of those pitts will be put to sleep we help the ones we can and yes we do cull. We only pull the absolutely sound pittie, the one who will be an ambassador for the breed and help show everyone they aren't what the media paints them to be. Those of us who love our dogs are now being told that guess what even though your dog has never done anything has his CGC and a variety of OB and Therapy titles must go because he is a pit bull. Imagine someone coming into your home and taking your baby simply because he is a maltese. That is what we are fighting. We are fighting to keep our beloved pets. That are loved to the same level that you love your malt. So again my irratation isn't with you but your comment and the media that put that figure of speach in your head.


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## AJ (Jun 5, 2005)

omg!!! That is soo scary







I'm really happy that your little one is alright


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

> _Originally posted by a2z_@Aug 4 2005, 10:57 AM
> *A pit bull just killed a 15-month old girl two days ago in our area.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=87109*


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That is just terrible, and I am so sorry that happened.
Once again, I have to ask though, how on earth did a dog get to a child of that age. Where were the parents? Where was the owner of the dog? What happened to provoke the dog? Why was a child left in a position where a dog was able to get to her? There are all kinds of circumstances in these dreadful incidents that are not reported, just that it happened and that it was a particlar breed of dog that did it.
I am so very sorry for the family that has to go through such a tragedy, but in fairness that could have been any breed of dog resposible, and it does happen but there are circumstances that can avoid these things happening if everyone concerned is more stringent in the safety of their children and the control of their animals.


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scoobydoo+Aug 4 2005, 10:58 AM-->
> 
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That is just terrible, and I am so sorry that happened.
Once again, I have to ask though, how on earth did a dog get to a child of that age. Where were the parents? Where was the owner of the dog? What happened to provoke the dog? Why was a child left in a position where a dog was able to get to her? There are all kinds of circumstances in these dreadful incidents that are not reported, just that it happened and that it was a particlar breed of dog that did it.
I am so very sorry for the family that has to go through such a tragedy, but in fairness that could have been any breed of dog resposible, and it does happen but there are circumstances that can avoid these things happening if everyone concerned is more stringent in the safety of their children and the control of their animals.
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Here is another example of a "pit bull" attack. Now you tell me who is really to blame the dog or the stupid owner? by the way the mother is now facing charges of child endangerment. 

The mother of a 12-year-old boy killed in his own home by at least one of the family's two pit bulls says she had been so concerned about one of the dogs that she shut her son in the basement to protect him. 

Maureen Faibish said she ordered Nicholas to stay in the basement while she did errands on June 3, the day he was attacked by one or both of the dogs. She said she was worried about the male dog, Rex, who was acting possessive because the female, Ella, was in heat. 

"I put him down there, with a shovel on the door," Faibish said in an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle. "And I told him: `Stay down there until I come back.' Typical Nicky, he wouldn't listen to me." 

Faibish said she felt compelled to call the newspaper Saturday to defend herself against widespread public outrage directed at families with children who own pit bulls, deeming them irresponsible parents. 

"That's not true. My kids got along great with" the dogs, she said. "We were never seeing any kind of violent tendencies." 

But on the day of the attack, Faibish said she was worried about the male dog's aggression so she locked her son in the basement. 

The boy apparently found a way to open the basement door. That's when his mom believes he walked in on the dogs while they were mating and was attacked by Rex. 

"It was Rex. I know it in my heart," Faibish said. "My younger dog (Ella) was in heat and anyone who came near her, Rex saw as a threat. He may have been trying to mate. It was a freak accident. It was just the heat of the moment."


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Aug 4 2005, 11:04 AM
> *According to this, Pit Bulls account for nearly a quarter of all fatal dog attacks.
> 
> The news here in North Carolina is full of stories of pit bull attacks. According to this, North Carolina is #8 on the list of fatal dog attacks.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Again, these statistics reflect lack of supervision where children are concerned.
Poor control of dogs from their owners and lack of training more than likely in many incidents.
The law should be that any animal that is not kept by a registered breeder should be desexed.
Bad owners who allow their dogs to roam the streets unleashed should be banned from ownership and heavily fined, and a dog that is accidently released is not an excuse as there are such things as locks on gates that can prevent a release.
If a dog is chained in a yard it should be in an area where a child has no access because quite often a child can provoke an animal, and I know this side of the attacks is never stated in the reports. Children are often bitten because they tend to tease the animal and a chained dog has no way to get away so it does what it can to protect itself, that is instinct and any breed of dog will attack if provoked if there is no way it can escape ie being chained or confined in a place where it cannot retreat from the one who is provoking it.


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kay_@Aug 4 2005, 06:31 AM
> *We had a terrible experience a few days ago.  My Maltese and I were visiting my mother and a neighbor's dog suddenly very viciously came after my dog.  If I had not had my dog on a leash and the patio gated, I'm sure he would have killed my dog.  The dog that attacked runs off leash with other big dogs and seems to get along well with them.  Thank goodness that this was one time the owner had him on a leash.
> 
> I was talking to my dog's breeder and he said to keep the Maltese away from big dogs.  He said that some bigger dogs will turn on a small dog and kill it regardless of how friendly they seem with other dogs their own size.  I've had two nights of nightmares now reliving the possibilities.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I am sorry that this happened to you. We also had an unpleasant run-in with a large husky mix just yesterday. The dog was snapping and seemed ready to eat my baby. Of course, my baby is a 7 lb bully who probably started it, but that dog could have had Miko for lunch (he was huge). I totally understand how you feel. I feel like never letting Miko around big dogs (but of course he gets their attention by barking and growling at them first).


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by dhodina_@Aug 4 2005, 07:38 AM
> *As someone who does pit bull rescue that comment about pit bulls completely irrated and annoyed me.  Check your facts before comments like that.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=87101*


[/QUOTE]


I often speak about lots of subjects without "checking my facts". I realize that you weren't trying to be rude, but this cameoff kinda rude. JMO


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

The frightening thing is that here in North Carolina, most of the pit bull attacks are by family dogs on small children while they are visiting their grandparents, aunts, etc., not by chained dogs in the neighborhood. As others have pointed out, where is the supervision?

Another big problem here is loose pit bulls attacking passersby. Almost weekly here there are reports of this on the local news, often elderly woman walking their own dog or a child on a bicycle.

In all these cases, obviously there is a lack of responsibility on the part of the dog's owner. I view pits, rotties and the like as similar to having a loaded gun in the house. In the hands of some people it may be totally safe, but the potential for disaster and tragedy goes way up when they are in the hands of irresponsible people. 

Unfortunately, we can't regulate who owns a pit bull, unless there is an incident, like we can regulate who buys a gun. 

It's too bad there isn't some sort of competency test required to own a dog, not just specific breeds!


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

Yes it was a case of the dog protecting its food.
Do you remember the pics I posted of my big red dobie. Well one day I took her with me when I went to vote, of course there are a lot of people there and children too. This dog was such a beautiful natured girl and loved children. While I was there a little girl came over to me and Shari, who was sitting quietly by my side as always, this little girl would have been about 7 I reckon and she obviously loved dogs and Shari was a beautiful looking animal, well that little girl just walked straight up to her and threw her arms around Sharie's neck and gave her a big hug and kiss, much to Shari's delight I might add. Well the mother of the girl had left her child unsupervised outside while she was inside voting, how bad is that in this day and age? Out comes the mother, sees her daughter hugging this huge doberman and screams at the top of her voice for her child to get away from that horrible animal. Well you can imagine my response to that, and of course Shari got a big fright, and the child began to cry for her mother's tirade, but there was Shari totally unphased and feeling sorry for the little girl she gave her a huge kiss on the cheek and moved away to the other side of me. My point is, I trained my dogs and socialized them thoroughly and had absolutely no fear of her harming that little girl in that instance, but, I still would never allow her to be alone with any child unsupervised because it is not the dog I didn't trust it is the child and what a child is capabale of to provoke a situation that is avoidable. This is her with my daughter.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

I agree that pit bulls breed seem to be owned by the "wrong" kind of people.... I don't know why but the breed seems to attract low life and thugs. People use them for fighting and often tie them up. I would imagine that they are abused more than most breeds. That is a shame.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Scoobydoo_@Aug 4 2005, 12:55 PM
> *
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


What a beautiful girl!! My mom lost her 15 year old, red Dobie, Amber this past winter.


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## Chelsey (Dec 17, 2004)

I'm glad that you and your puppy are safe and were not hurt in anyway. Thanks for the worning. This also happened to me with my first maltese... Up to this day I don't know what set off the other dog but thank the hevens that it was on a leash and the owner was able to hold it back. My friend and i were just walking down a busy road with missy my first malt and all of a sudden the other dog went nuts . I quicky scooped up missy and ran across the street. Missy never even notice the other dog was after her. again I'm glad you and puppy are well and safe.


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Carrie+Aug 4 2005, 01:07 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What a beautiful girl!! My mom lost her 15 year old, red Dobie, Amber this past winter.








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=87161
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you Carrie, she was the most beautiful companion my children and I had while they were growing up. Sadly we lost her to something they call Wobbler Syndrome where the spine becomes deformed over the years and she had a fall in the back yard and one of her vertabre was pinching her spinal cord which rendered her paralized from the neck down. She was 10 years old a the time and it broke our hearts. My son carried her into the vet's on her last day with us and we had to put her to rest. This was in Australia and would you believe I have her ashes here with me in the US in her sealed urn to this day.


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## doctorcathy (May 17, 2004)

i know how you feel when a dog tries attacking your dog. its happened to me MANY times. there are a couple of dogs that are always loose around my neighborhood (which i dont understand since we live near a major street) but these 2 dogs are SO sweet. and are actually scared of sprite and ellie, thank god. lol. 

but dont get too worried, try going to a dog park, your dog should socialize with other dogs.







and all the dogs that go to the 'dog park' near my house---are super friendly.









and i think the whole thing about dogs being aggressive...depends on each individual.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

This is an excellent article about the problem with pit bulls in NYC, their appeal to "thugs and low lifes" as K&C's mom calls them, how pit's were bred for fighting and their unique genetic make up, plus the role irresponsible owners play in this growing inner city problem. It is very informative and presents both sides of the story, IMO.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html


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## paris (Apr 8, 2005)

too bad we can't chain up the owners and beat them...


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

In this case here in North Carolina, the owners of the dog were charged contributing to the deliquency of a minor for letting the child (their niece) get too close to the chained pit bull. As I said earlier, it's amazing how many of the pit bull attacks here in NC happen at the home of friends and relatives. And, as is the case here, most dogs are not up to date on their rabies shots.

These idiots probably own guns, too!

Aunt, Boyfriend Charged in Dog Attack
www.rrdailyherald.com
Lance Martin

April 25, 2005,ROANOKE RAPIDS, NORTH CAROLINA - The owners of a pit bull have been arrested in the near-fatal dog bite of a young girl. The couple - the victim's aunt and her boyfriend - are accused of lying to police when they claimed another animal had attacked the 2-1/2 -year-old child.

Skylar Finney remained in stable condition this morning at the University of North Carolina Medical Center, according to her grandmother, Cheryl Livesay.

Police Chief Greg Lawson said a break in the case came about 5 p.m.,Thursday when police learned the dog that bit Skylar was a male pit bull chained in the back yard of Daniel Lewter's house at 714 Miles Street and was not a stray.

Lewter, 19, and Christine Livesay, the 19-year-old aunt of the child, were both charged with one count each of child abuse, contributing to the delinquency of a minor child, delaying and obstructing law enforcement officers, filing a false police report and having a vicious animal.

Livesay was arrested at the Miles Street residence she and Lewter share around 7:43 p.m. Lewter turned himself in to police later that evening.

Lawson declined to elaborate on whether the break in the case came from admission by family members or through investigation. He did credit Detectives James Ayers and Roy Ball and Sgt. Ozzie Morgan for "doing an outstanding job" on the case.

This morning, the grandmother told the Daily Herald, "The family did not know they were lying. We were devastated. They (Lewter and Christine Livesay) came (to the hospital) and stood at the foot of her bed. They knew her condition. They knew she faced the rabies shots. They never said a word... I don't know how anybody can do that."

The discovery of the truth in the case ends nearly 100 hours of investigation and officers responding to calls of a stray brownish-tan dog resembling a lab roaming around the neighborhood near Miles Street and other areas of the city.

Lawson said police had suspicions soon after the girl was bitten Monday. "We had our suspicions confirmed and validated there was a pit bull in the yard." Cheryl Livesay said the family was also suspicious. "But all we had to go with was what they told us ... We had a gut instinct but we couldn't prove it."

The contributing to the delinquency of a minor charge was filed because the child was allowed to get too close to a dangerous animal, Lawson said this morning.

The dog was seized and quarantined at the Halifax County Animal Shelter and pending further investigation, police will seek a court order to have the dog killed.

Halifax County Chief Animal Control Officer Robert Richardson said an investigation was going to be done to determine whether the animal had rabies shots, but he said he didn't think it did have the shots.

Lawson could not say what prompted the attack. "Our opinion is the child was allowed to get too close to this animal. It was really disturbing to our officers."

Skylar was severely bitten on the head and face, according to police reports. The little girl is still undergoing rabies treatment at the hospital. She has also received numerous other medical procedures including reconstructive and oral surgery for damage to her head and face, according to police.

Cheryl Livesay said the doctors decided to leave the child's breathing tube in place for at least one more day due to fluid in her lungs. "The nurses and the doctors say she is a fighter ... she is a strong little girl," she added.

Lawson said while the police department was misdirected, "The outpouring from the community to help was important. It helped also with the case."

Lewter and Livesay were each released on $2,000 bond and are scheduled to appear in court May 20.

The family is accepting funds to help with the Skylar's medical care through a special trust fund established at Roanoke Valley Saving Bank. Cheryl Livesay stressed none of the money donated to Skylar would be used to benefit either Lewter or Christine Livesay.


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Aug 4 2005, 12:51 PM
> *This is an excellent article about the problem with pit bulls in NYC, their appeal to "thugs and low lifes" as K&C's mom calls them, how pit's were bred for fighting and their unique genetic make up, plus the role irresponsible owners play in this growing inner city problem. It is very informative and presents both sides of the story, IMO.
> 
> http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=87182*


[/QUOTE]


With quotes like this "Different breeds have genetic predispositions to certain kinds of behavior, though that can be influenced by how they are raised. The pit bull is an innately aggressive breed, often owned by someone who wants an aggressive dog, so they're going to encourage it." I don't see how that is giving both sides of the story. That is an extremely biased article. 

Please look at the sorryagain.com website, see if those dogs fit the stereo type this article and the 100's of others like it describe. And just a side note human aggression is not allowed even in fighting dogs. The old fighting breeders used to cull dogs for it. It has shown itself due to the same reason that is shows in so many other popular breeds, overbreeding by byb. And one other comment, I am so sick of articles like this last one shown stereo type people who own a certian type of dog. It is so discrimintory that I can't stand it.


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## Kay (Jun 3, 2005)

Well, you know, it actually crossed my mind to say snarling vicious wolf, but the fact is that we had just recently had an incident in our area involving two pitbulls getting out of their fenced in yard and killing a Maltese who was being walked on a leash on the sidewalk in front of their house by her 70 year old owner. The woman was devastated that her baby was killed in front of her - mauled by the pit bulls. So anyway, pit bulls were on my mind yet I still meant it as a figure of speech.

As far as claiming that any breed's personality is always one thing or another is, of course, unfair and untrue. I'm fully aware of that. It is true, however, that there are some breeds that have bad reputations. I once owned a doberman who was the sweetest dog there ever lived and a German Shepherd who have killed to protect my baby while my baby was pulling its ears. Yet even with all this I have to say that I was shocked that the dog that reacted so viciously was a Golden Retriever.

I'll take this one step further and state that I can't guaranteee to anyone that my Maltese won't bite. When asked, I say that he never has bitten - I never say that he won't. I would be shocked if he did, but a dog is a dog and we never know what will set a dog off. My sole purpose was to pass along the experience I had just as an FYI. It was terrifying and I didn't want anyone else to ever have to go through something like that - and with possibly much worse results.

I learn so much from these boards. I will stay and read and learn, but it's not often that I feel the need to post. I see my questions answered in so many other peoples' postings. I'm more of a "lurker" than a poster and I will certainly stay and "lurk" and learn. But it was nice to "meet" some of you and I wanted to post to thank you for being kind and understanding that I never meant to start a ruckus. Anyway, thank you for your support. I admit that I was starting to feel just a wee bit like my poor little dog must have felt.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Kay, I had a Doberman also many years ago and he was a big baby... just soooo sweet. I wish I had a scanner so I could post the pic of him in his birthday hat with an entire whole hamburger and bun in his mouth... I'll try to find someone to scan it for me. 

Anyway, I am leary about walking K & C due to the possibility of a stray dog attack. In fact, does anyone know of a repellent that is good to use while walking if a vicious dog should try to attack... such as some sort of spray ?


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Scoobydoo+Aug 4 2005, 01:23 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]

Thank you Carrie, she was the most beautiful companion my children and I had while they were growing up. Sadly we lost her to something they call Wobbler Syndrome where the spine becomes deformed over the years and she had a fall in the back yard and one of her vertabre was pinching her spinal cord which rendered her paralized from the neck down. She was 10 years old a the time and it broke our hearts. My son carried her into the vet's on her last day with us and we had to put her to rest. This was in Australia and would you believe I have her ashes here with me in the US in her sealed urn to this day.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=87168
[/B][/QUOTE]

She was very beautiful. I like how her ears were kept natural. I'm sorry to hear that happened to her. That is very sad. It's wonderful you have her ashes with you.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I got some in the gun shop here that is like mace, but especially for dogs. It was about $10, I think.

I had a cat killed by a dog years ago and my poor Petie was attacked several times by male dogs who would congregate outside when my neighbor's Boxer was in heat. My daughter ended up underneath 3 of them, still hanging into the leash trying to protect Petie. I had to beat off a German Shorthair who decided that he might like to eat me instead.

I would absolutely not hesitate to use it should any loose dog approach me and Lady. Fortunately, I live in the city limits with a strict leash law, plus a planned community that respects the rules. Except for the occasional newbie who tries to take their dog out for a quick pee off leash (and we report them and they get a warning), we don't usually have a problem with loose dogs here. 

Still, I always keep my mace with me.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Aug 4 2005, 03:41 PM
> *I got some in the gun shop here that is like mace, but especially for dogs. It was about $10, I think.
> 
> I had a cat killed by a dog years ago and my poor Petie was attacked several times by male dogs who would congregate outside when my neighbor's Boxer was in heat. My daughter ended up underneath 3 of them, still hanging into the leash trying to protect Petie. I had to beat off a German Shorthair who decided that he might like to eat me instead.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Thanks, for the info. We have strict leash laws also but occasionally a "scary-looking" stray will prowl the neighborhood........


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## abbey (Apr 4, 2005)

Don't worry about it Kay







~ I've mentioned on here several times that my little Abbey acts like a rottie at times!!







I only use it as a fiqure of speech also - although I was attacked and bit by a rott when I was 12 years old. A friend and I were just taking a walk on the opposite side of the street. Th owner saw the dog come after me and yelled "Don't worry he won't hurt you - he's just a big baby!" Well, he did hurt me and all he could say was "He's never done anything like that before!!" Hello!! Leash your dog!! I know your fear ~ There's a big dog about a 1/4 mile up the road from us that gets into a barking match with Abbey everytime we take a walk and I wouldn't know what to do if Abbey ever got out of the house and went after that dog! Plus we live on a big farm and you wouldn't believe the strays that come on our property. A dog (half sharpei, half boxer) fell into our pool last summer. He was stuck under the pool cover and I had to help him get out. The animal control guy told me I shouldn't have went near the dog but I couldn't let him just drown. He seemed like a quiet dog but the animal control officer told me that the quietest ones are the ones to worry about. Later he caught him and he was right- that dog put up a huge fight, to the point that his mouth was bleeding!!









I just wish people would be responsible of their pets. I know Abbey probably wouldn't hurt anyone but I still make sure she is leashed or in her carrier.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Msloke_@Aug 4 2005, 06:13 PM
> *Kay, I'm sorry the topic you started, with very good intentions, got hijacked and turned into something it was not intended to be.  It's not just you, it seems to happen a lot.  I've felt the same way you are feeling at times, becoming a lurker rather than posing a question or comment.  Please don't stop posting, I'd rather read your posts than some of the rants on here lately (which once I see where they're going, I don't bother to read).
> 
> I would like to propose a suggestion to everyone for the future, rather than attack the poster, who's comments can be taken several ways, why not start your own topic on that which you feel so passionate about?  That way, the original poster does not feel like they're being called down on a comment they made and you can put across your point in a non-inflammatory way on you own topic.  And, more importantly, the topic stay on target to it's original intent.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=87257*


[/QUOTE]

Bravo! Excellent idea!


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

I've seen the stories of the sweetest pit bulls and how gentle they can be.......BUT, don't they have like the strongest jaws of any canine? If that is so, then comparing an attack or bite by a Lab to that of a Pit Bull is not comparing the same potential for injury.

My friend was attacked as she walked from the sidewalk onto her driveway by two pit bulls owned by the neighbor across the street from her. The dummies had the dogs out front unleashed! My friend was knocked to the ground as both dogs set on her and tore large wounds in her upper arms and back until the owners were able to get the dogs off her. 

So the danger is in the firepower of an untrained or poorly trained dog. Like the difference between a bb gun and a shotgun.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@Aug 5 2005, 10:25 AM
> *I've seen the stories of the sweetest pit bulls and how gentle they can be.......BUT, don't they have like the strongest jaws of any canine?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=87385*


[/QUOTE]


Uhh....I thought that was a myth...?


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@Aug 5 2005, 09:25 AM
> *I've seen the stories of the sweetest pit bulls and how gentle they can be.......BUT, don't they have like the strongest jaws of any canine?  If that is so, then comparing an attack or bite by a Lab to that of a Pit Bull is not comparing the same potential for injury.
> 
> My friend was attacked as she walked from the sidewalk onto her driveway by two pit bulls owned by the neighbor across the street from her.  The dummies had the dogs out front unleashed!  My friend was knocked to the ground as both dogs set on her and tore large wounds in her upper arms and back until the owners were able to get the dogs off her.
> ...


[/QUOTE]


Is yes they do have a strong jaw, however it does not lock, they have done scientfic studies and there is no difference in the structure of their jaw. The difference in a pit bull bite and say a lab, a lab will loosen its hold to regrip a pitbull once it has a hold will not attempt to regrip. In breaking up a dog fight you are more likely to be bitten by a non pit bull due to the simple fact that they bite and regrip, creating a snapping action. Sorry if that does make sense I can not think of a better way to describe it. Although I agree that they do need a responsible owner and aren't for everyone, the same holds true for any breed. They are terriers they have the attitude that all terrier breeds have. My friends yorkie will kill a rabbit in a min and does so everytime she find a nest. So yes the size and power of the dog does inflict more damage, but remember this for every pit bull story you see in the news there are 3 or 4 with labs, mutts, huskys, malamutes that you don't see because the media doesn't report them. For all those who support BSL take a carefull look at the list of dogs on there. No more malamutes, huskys, st bernards, rotties, dobes, german shepherds, boviars, and many other breeds including the pit bull. Pitbulls should be made extinct because the wrong people own them? Well then following that logic shouldn't our malts and other toy breeds be banned look at all the horrible puppymillers that own them, look at all the dogs that are fear biters due to lack of socialization we try to save them because they are that way due to bad breeding and the way they are treated and/or raised is no fault of their own they are what they are. Why do pits not get the same? They didn't choose to be so overbred and genetically mutilated, to have drug dealers and other low lifes see them as a status symbol, to be starved kept on a 4 ft chain, beaten till they fight, fed gunpowder, have no other human contact. We made them what they are it is our job to save them. I and many others will continue to fight to keep this breed as what is should be loyal, family orientated, loving, goofy and alive. The first dog ever awarded a medal by the US military was a pittie the extent of their love and loyalty to people is astounding. I challenge everyone here to get to know one pit bull personally and see what the breed truelly is not what the media makes them.


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@Aug 5 2005, 10:25 AM
> *I've seen the stories of the sweetest pit bulls and how gentle they can be.......BUT, don't they have like the strongest jaws of any canine?  If that is so, then comparing an attack or bite by a Lab to that of a Pit Bull is not comparing the same potential for injury.
> 
> My friend was attacked as she walked from the sidewalk onto her driveway by two pit bulls owned by the neighbor across the street from her.  The dummies had the dogs out front unleashed!  My friend was knocked to the ground as both dogs set on her and tore large wounds in her upper arms and back until the owners were able to get the dogs off her.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

That is regrettable that your friend had to endure such a horrific experience and I do hope she is ok.
Yet again proof that most of these types of incidents purely reflect back to the careless ownership and lack of responsibility of these people for allowing their dogs to run loose.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dhodina+Aug 5 2005, 10:47 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is yes they do have a strong jaw, however it does not lock, they have done scientfic studies and there is no difference in the structure of their jaw. The difference in a pit bull bite and say a lab, a lab will loosen its hold to regrip a pitbull once it has a hold will not attempt to regrip. In breaking up a dog fight you are more likely to be bitten by a non pit bull due to the simple fact that they bite and regrip, creating a snapping action. Sorry if that does make sense I can not think of a better way to describe it. Although I agree that they do need a responsible owner and aren't for everyone, the same holds true for any breed. They are terriers they have the attitude that all terrier breeds have. My friends yorkie will kill a rabbit in a min and does so everytime she find a nest. So yes the size and power of the dog does inflict more damage, but remember this for every pit bull story you see in the news there are 3 or 4 with labs, mutts, huskys, malamutes that you don't see because the media doesn't report them. For all those who support BSL take a carefull look at the list of dogs on there. No more malamutes, huskys, st bernards, rotties, dobes, german shepherds, boviars, and many other breeds including the pit bull. Pitbulls should be made extinct because the wrong people own them? Well then following that logic shouldn't our malts and other toy breeds be banned look at all the horrible puppymillers that own them, look at all the dogs that are fear biters due to lack of socialization we try to save them because they are that way due to bad breeding and the way they are treated and/or raised is no fault of their own they are what they are. Why do pits not get the same? They didn't choose to be so overbred and genetically mutilated, to have drug dealers and other low lifes see them as a status symbol, to be starved kept on a 4 ft chain, beaten till they fight, fed gunpowder, have no other human contact. We made them what they are it is our job to save them. I and many others will continue to fight to keep this breed as what is should be loyal, family orientated, loving, goofy and alive. The first dog ever awarded a medal by the US military was a pittie the extent of their love and loyalty to people is astounding. I challenge everyone here to get to know one pit bull personally and see what the breed truelly is not what the media makes them.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=87398
[/B][/QUOTE]


I do know a Pit Bull (her name is Lilly) and I know an AmStaf (who is ALWAYS misidentified as a pittie, named Sugar...and hes a boy....) They are beautiful dogs, and they are not aggressive. I remember walking into Lilly's house, and her bounding at me and thinking "oh crap" because of what I have heard about them. Well, all she was doing was greeting me. LOL I'm glad I was educated first hand by her and Sug. 
I was also attacked when I was younger, I was badly bitten in the face and hands, I was smart enough to turn over and cover my face as soon as I could. Then he bit me several times in the back and the back of the head. I was in the hospital for 3 days. I still have scars on my back and my face above my eye (which they thought I was going to lose) When I got home, the owner of the dog had sent my parents a bill for the dog having to have my glasses surgically removed from inside of him. Ironic, huh? I was attacked by a King Doberman Pinscer. He was running loose through the cemetery, we didn't even know he was there until he was about 5 or 6 feet from me, from which point he jumped and attacked me. From what I was told, he was a guard dog for a local business and they let him run in the cemetery once a week for exercise. Normally he was on a short chain in the back of the business (where they didnt have a cage door protecting the business). 
The odd thing about this is, I forget I was attacked, I am NOT afraid of the breed. I feel bad for everyone, but I have NEVER once held it against the dog, or any certain breed of dog. One of my friends was attacked by a Great Dane a couple of years ago. His face was completely torn off. He had to have many surgeries to correct it. Another friend was attacked by a **** Hound, she still has scars on her face. All of us were attacked by dogs that were owned by irresponsible people. It should never be blamed on the breed.


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Carrie+Aug 5 2005, 10:14 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
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I was also attacked when I was younger, I was badly bitten in the face and hands, I was smart enough to turn over and cover my face as soon as I could. Then he bit me several times in the back and the back of the head. I was in the hospital for 3 days. I still have scars on my back and my face above my eye (which they thought I was going to lose) When I got home, the owner of the dog had sent my parents a bill for the dog having to have my glasses surgically removed from inside of him. Ironic, huh? I was attacked by a King Doberman Pinscer. He was running loose through the cemetery, we didn't even know he was there until he was about 5 or 6 feet from me, from which point he jumped and attacked me. From what I was told, he was a guard dog for a local business and they let him run in the cemetery once a week for exercise. Normally he was on a short chain in the back of the business (where they didnt have a cage door protecting the business). 
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Wow!!!! How terrible. I am sorry that you had such an awful experience. I am not sure I would ever own another dog if I had gone through the same experience.


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## Violet's Mom (Aug 3, 2005)

Im sorry this happened to you. How scary!







My boyfriend makes jokes about his Cane Corsa "playing" with my dog, I definately know better then to let the two meet.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

Don't be sorry, I'm not.









What I was trying to say, is that there are many types of dogs who attack, and when it does happen- there was some sort of irresponsibility involved. 

As a great website says "Punish the DEED not the BREED".

I love all dogs, big or small, stereo-typically mean or gentle.....all.....


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## TheButtercup (Mar 3, 2005)

i'm thinking i should not reply at all, as i dont really have anything to "contribute". but i do want to say, in response to dhodina (from whom i've learned a LOT from on this topic in reading this thread) and her challenge to get to know a friendly pit... when i first got buttercup, our neighbor across the hall had a pit and his girlfriend had a rottie (or was it vice versa? i always forget, they were both always over there) and both of them were the most laid back, friendly dogs. diamond, the rottie, was always thrilled to see buttercup. he let her just jump all over him and run all around between his legs like a crazywoman. lily, the pit, was equally lovey. she seemed to show buttercup all the "best smelling" spots in our complex. lol. buttercup gained another partner in crime when the guys in the building next door brought "pumpkin" home. she was a little little baby girl pit, and she still thinks she is a lap dog, lol. she and buttercup played so well together. of course i always keep a close eye on her when she's with a big dog, and everytime i read a story about a dog attack of any breed, i always hug the buttercup a little closer, and realize how lucky i've been so far. hopefully, my luck on that front continues....

ann marie and the "big dog in a former life" buttercup


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## paris'mom (Jul 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dhodina_@Aug 4 2005, 10:07 AM
> *Define a pitbull type dog please?  Part of the biggest problem with these statistic's is that many mixes are thrown in the "pit bull" category.  And where are black labs on that list?  Right now they are very high on the bite list due to inbreeding and what not.  Ask those who work in the vet's office on how many of the VICIOUS dogs that come in there that they have to muzzle, rabies pole and basically pin down to even touch are pits.  I bet the answer will amaze you.  Ask them what they think of pitties.  Ask them what breed tries to bite them the most. Media has skewed the publics view so badly,  am staffs and pits are one of the top breeds to pass the CGC.  Look at tall the therapy dogs out there that are pitties.  Those are the rule not the expeption as so many think.
> 
> http://www.sorryagain.com/
> ...


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Thank you for this link because it totally helped to open my eyes more. I NEVER would support a BAN on a specific breed (like banning people just because they're handicapped, different race, etc.) but to be honest with you- I wasn't actively opposing it. Now I will spread the word and bring awareness to everyone I know. I never knew the pitbulls are SO CUTE! It's too bad that the only image of Pit Bulls in the media are the negative ones.

thanks!


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

I would like to add my 2 cents.......... all dogs are animals and none of us can really say for sure what any animal is capapable of in any givein situation. Even our precious malt babies. I doubt that any of us would leave a newborn baby alone on the floor with even the most trusted malt baby (if you would you are nuts). It is up to us as intelligent beings to train and control our animals no matter what the breed. When an animal causes harm to another animal or person it is because of the failure of a human to properly train or control that animal. 

We each have the right to have personal preferences when it comes to animals as well. These preferences are based on past rational reasons and irrational reasons but they are our preferences and we have a right to them. I personally would never own a pit bull , my personal preference.

I have a 100 lb Old English Sheep Dog and a 4 lb Malt. They get along very well together. They share food, toys and bones but I always keep a close eye on them and never leave them alone together. Accidents happen and they are animals.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by puppymom_@Aug 6 2005, 09:05 AM
> *I would like to add my 2 cents..........  all dogs are animals and none of us can really say for sure what any animal is capapable of in any givein situation.  Even our precious malt babies.  I doubt that any of us would leave a newborn baby alone on the floor with even the most trusted malt baby (if you would you are nuts).  It is up to us as intelligent beings to train and control our animals no matter what the breed.  When an animal causes harm to another animal or person it is because of the failure of a human to properly train or control that animal.
> 
> We each have the right to have personal preferences when it comes to animals as well.  These preferences are based on past rational reasons and irrational reasons but they are our preferences and we have a right to them.  I personally would never own a pit bull , my personal preference.
> ...


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I totally agree with you. 

Unfortunately, some people think they want a macho dog or one that they can engage in fighting and they tend to choose the pit bull breed for their purpose, which further maligns the breed's reputation.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by scrappy+Aug 5 2005, 06:58 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...

























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Although I totally agree with this statement...it makes me frustrated at myself because if this is true...then what the HECK have I done wrong with Brinkley?







Although he obviously could not maul someone like a larger dog might, he does occasionally bite/nip at people. Much to my dismay!







The other night I took him to a church league softball game. We sat behind the batters-away from the crowd and traffic. The catcher missed the ball a few times and when Brink noticed it, he tried to chase the big softball through the fence.







Anyway, the umpire came over to get the ball and said something to Brink...(Brink growled at him...I don't know why!!) So I scolded Brink and tried to pull him back about the same time the guy put his hand down to continue to talk to Brink (AFTER he had just growled a warning at him) and Brink lunged his little nose through the fence and nipped him!  Drew BLOOD!!!!!! WTH?! I was SO embarrassed. The umpire thought it was kinda funny, although he kept watching it bleed...







He said he probably smelled his dogs on his hands. I THINK that Brink either 1) didn't like him getting the ball 2) was protecting me for whatever reason 3) was in a tizzy over the sweet well-behaved dogs sitting in the bleachers around the back-stop 4) He is a brat!?
I don't know...but his ball game days are very done or limited. I can't have him biting people...and I don't know how to stop it, nor what DEED I have done to encourage that behavior.

So my point...if I had to go by my own experience in MY house. I have a lab and a bassett who would have a hard time hurting ANYTHING! Neither of them have EVER bitten/nipped/growled or bared their teeth at anyone or anything that I have ever seen. Brinkley on the other hand has a tendency to be a little terror.







Even someone at the ballgame said (after he bit the umpire)..."And he looks so cute and sweet!"


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Aug 6 2005, 09:28 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]


Although I totally agree with this statement...it makes me frustrated at myself because if this is true...then what the HECK have I done wrong with Brinkley?







Although he obviously could not maul someone like a larger dog might, he does occasionally bite/nip at people. Much to my dismay!







The other night I took him to a church league softball game. We sat behind the batters-away from the crowd and traffic. The catcher missed the ball a few times and when Brink noticed it, he tried to chase the big softball through the fence.







Anyway, the umpire came over to get the ball and said something to Brink...(Brink growled at him...I don't know why!!) So I scolded Brink and tried to pull him back about the same time the guy put his hand down to continue to talk to Brink (AFTER he had just growled a warning at him) and Brink lunged his little nose through the fence and nipped him!  Drew BLOOD!!!!!! WTH?! I was SO embarrassed. The umpire thought it was kinda funny, although he kept watching it bleed...







He said he probably smelled his dogs on his hands. I THINK that Brink either 1) didn't like him getting the ball 2) was protecting me for whatever reason 3) was in a tizzy over the sweet well-behaved dogs sitting in the bleachers around the back-stop 4) He is a brat!?
I don't know...but his ball game days are very done or limited. I can't have him biting people...and I don't know how to stop it, nor what DEED I have done to encourage that behavior.

So my point...if I had to go by my own experience in MY house. I have a lab and a bassett who would have a hard time hurting ANYTHING! Neither of them have EVER bitten/nipped/growled or bared their teeth at anyone or anything that I have ever seen. Brinkley on the other hand has a tendency to be a little terror.







Even someone at the ballgame said (after he bit the umpire)..."And he looks so cute and sweet!"
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I don't know that you have done anything wrong with Brink because Scooby is now showing the exact same tendancy. He is fine in his own home and loves other people, but when we are out somewhere no one can touch him or one of us. I had a classic case the other day when we were in the pet store, a lady came in nursing a little malt, so Scooby wanted to meet the Malt, well he was fine, tail wagging and touching noses, well the lady went to pet Scooby on the head and he snarled at her so loud it gave both of us a fright. Now he has never normally been like that but I think it is either protectiveness or jealousy or fear, but he has no reason to be afraid as he has never had a bad experience but he does not like other people picking him up either so maybe he thought she was going to take him from my arms. Of course we told him he was naughty and scolded him, that is about all we can do at the time, but we did have his stroller in the car so hubby went and got it and we put him in there so he had to behave from then on.


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## puppylucy (Jan 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by puppymom_@Aug 6 2005, 08:05 AM
> *I would like to add my 2 cents..........  all dogs are animals and none of us can really say for sure what any animal is capapable of in any givein situation.  Even our precious malt babies.  I doubt that any of us would leave a newborn baby alone on the floor with even the most trusted malt baby (if you would you are nuts).  It is up to us as intelligent beings to train and control our animals no matter what the breed.  When an animal causes harm to another animal or person it is because of the failure of a human to properly train or control that animal.
> 
> We each have the right to have personal preferences when it comes to animals as well.  These preferences are based on past rational reasons and irrational reasons but they are our preferences and we have a right to them.  I personally would never own a pit bull , my personal preference.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

i just wanted to say those pics of your dogs together are just precious.


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## Laceys mom (Nov 12, 2004)

I just thought I would add this...my son's bestfriend has a mix of some kind but he is called a Pitbull. This dog is the most lovable dog I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. He is the only "Pitbull" I have ever known. Were he lives he has to have insurance on this dog and has to registered this dog with the police department. I hear all the news about these dogs attacking and I can't imagine how horrible that would be. Taz, that is his name, is huge and I am sure that people feel threatened when they see him but as I said earlier he is the most gentle dog I have ever been around. Would I want one? No, I don't think I could train this kind of dog and I would be nervous about what people do when they see him. I think it has to do with how many of these dogs are treated. My son's friend is very good with all animals and he has the ability to get any animal to trust him.


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## Chilly dog (Aug 16, 2005)

I'm a new member to this Forum and I don't want to start off on a bad foot, but I just thought I'd voice my opinion.

One case of a child being killed by a dog, pit bull or otherwise, is one too many. I agree that pit bulls do have a bad rep, but there have been enough needless maulings for that rep to be deserving. If a pit bull terrier was a dog in the wild, like most other harmful animals, that would be another story but people keep pit bulls as pets and, in my opinion, if an unfit owner has a pit bill as a pet that is no different than a murder weapon. If there were a way to control who owns a pit bull and how they do so that would be good, but there are no laws that can achieve this. The simple fact that pets are around children and pit bulls are kept as pets is reason enough for their banning, in my eyes.

Did you ever see the episode of Oprah where a woman saved a 4 year old boy who was being mauled by 2 pit bulls? There wasn't a dry eye in the house (although that is not very uncommon for Oprah!). I think if you personally knew someone who was affected by a pit bull mauling/killing you might see things differently.

Sorry if anyone takes offence to this, I know that not all pit bulls are so wild and it is mostly the fault of the owner, but this, to me, is not a good enough excuse. Pit bulls are being banned in my province and I feel safer for myself and my family because of it. It's a controversail topic to some, but I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Mallory & Chilly









Now back to the lighter stuff... I Love Malts!


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