# Frozen Raw, Who Is feeding this and what brand?



## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

I have been reading and reading and reading about Raw Foods for dogs, and want to switch to this, after testing to make sure our dogs would eat it. Oh my gosh they gobbled up the raw chicken and lamb... so off we go into the RAW Food road.







I have to say I am not a fan of this but I want to do what is best for our doggies. I never saw Sir Micro eat so happily, I was shocked he liked it so much.



So I went running around today to the dog food stores to see what they had in. I found one store that has a whole wall of freezers with about 15 different frozen raw foods available. I have just spent 3 hours reading every web site that I could recall the name of, to find out more information. I also checked out some independent sites as well. Now for the wonderful Spoiled Maltese knowledge.



I would love to know, 

1) IF you feed your dog raw, from a company, which raw to you use?

2) Do you feed your dog a variety, change the protein source, like from Chicken to Lamb, etc? How often do you change, if so?

3) Is your store bought raw food a "complete balanced diet" or do you supplement? If you do supplement, how so?

4) Is there a raw food you have tried and do not like, why?

5) How much do you feed your dog?



I am just so grossed out by raw meats but, I really wish to learn all I can about this after seeing Micro's reaction. Sir Micro has always been the most picky eater here and for him to "wolf" down food, was amazing.



Thank you so much for any and every reply.









enJOY!

Melanie


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## Joey's Mom2 (Aug 24, 2004)

> I have been reading and reading and reading about Raw Foods for dogs, and want to switch to this, after testing to make sure our dogs would eat it. Oh my gosh they gobbled up the raw chicken and lamb... so off we go into the RAW Food road.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm currently in the transition to raw as well. Fendi has been on Canidae since February of this year. I bought Nature's Variety Chicken and Turkey medallions a few weeks ago. I started her on kibble one day, then NV the next and on and off for about two weeks. I'm now at a point where I only feed her Nature's Variety only. Now my next step.... I just bought some chicken wings, and I'll be switching this with Nature's Variety on and off again for about a week or two depending on how well she takes the raw chicken wings. Eventually I will work on beef, lamb, turkey, venison, then on to organs! Liver, kidney, heart, gizzard.... I know I'm doing this really slow, but it's more for me than it is for Fendi. Fendi LOVES raw and she has not had a single bad reaction at all. She just wants them to keep on coming, as far as she's concerned. 

Nature's Variety is complete and balanced, but since she will be on raw I will supplement. Right now I'm still researching supplements so I'm not exactly for sure yet. Rightnow I'm thinking flaxseed, fish oil, kelp powder--but anyway I have time to research this still. 

And I feed her four medallions. I did the feed intake thing on NV's website, and it said that she would need 3 oz. But when I give her 3, she just looks so unsatisfied...like she's still really hungry. The fact that she consumes 3 oz in one minute and half adds to my conclusion that maybe 3 just isn't enough. So now I give her 4 oz and although she consumes that in two minutes, she looks much more satisfied than just 3.

Hope I somehow added to your research even though I'm new myself!


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I am presently feeding Nature's Variety RAW Venison with veggies n fruit to Cosy and Toy. I won't say I'm 100% comfortable with it, but I can't say I'm comfortable with anything else at the moment either. This seems the least threatening to me. I do supplement with Canidae kibble, though I can't say they love it.

They are nuts about the raw food.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

Hi Mel,

Here are my answers in your posted order.

1) Nature Variety

2) Chicken, Chicken & Turkey, I buy both and switch every day

3) Complete

4) Nature Variety - Venison

5) The store I buy it from says I'm feeding them too much but if the eat it I feed it. Mia is the pickiest eater I have ever seen but she eats this great. I was giving them 21/2 medallions at each feeding (2x a day) Now I have switched to the patties (more cost effective) 1/4 of a patty per feeding each (2x a day) which works out to a patty a day between both dogs. I supplement with frozen veggies and fresh fruit. Natures Varity also contains grinded fruits & veggies in their foods.

Good Luck!

PS Missing Link is a good supplement if you want to add one.


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## BrookeB676 (Oct 17, 2004)

1) We use Primal Raw, but have tried Nature's Variety and Bravo before. I think that Nature's Variety is probably the most popular amongst the balanced raw diets, however, I believe that the Primal has higher quality ingredients and mine seem to be doing better with their bathroom schedule on it. 

2) We change the protein source, and I think that is one of the greatest benefits of raw. Mine love having a variety. I usually do 2-3 days Chicken, the next 2-3 days Lamb, the next 2-3 days Pheasant, and then I do 1 day of Buffalo. You can rotate weekly or even bi-monthly. This is completely fine to rotate diets and is in fact very recommended. Mine have not had any issued with loose stools from rotating and as said earlier, just LOVE the variety.

3) Primal (as well as most) is complete and therefore doesn't need to be supplemented, however, I also add salmon oil every other day to their food, and would recommend this whether or not on a raw diet as I think it has a lot of benefits. 

4) I think they are all good brands, you just have to pick what works best for your dog's system. I have looked into Bravo and I don't think it is as complete as some of the others.

5) You should be feeding your baby 2.5% of their body weight to maintain their weight. So for example, if your pup weighs 5 lbs., you multiply 5 by 2.5%, and you get .125, so he/she should be eating .125 of a pound of food per day, which translates into 2 ounces per day of the raw diet. If your baby is 10 lbs., he/she should be eating 4 ounces a day, so on and so forth. This may not sound like much, but the raw diet is much more nutrient dense than filler dry food. I personally still leave Wysong dry for them to snack on at night. 

I am completely comfortable giving them a balanced raw diet. Their coats and breath have improved 100% and I finally found a vet who my thoughts are aligned with. This is however the hardest part of transitioning because the pet industry, vets included, are against anything other than science diet (pun intended). Of course, these thoughts are just my opinion from my own research.


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

Thank you for the replies. Brit I feel like you do, I am not fond of this but I certainly am not happy with other foods currently. What a mess pet owners have been handed. And with Sir Micro being the picky eater he is I really have to make sure he eats.

I was thinking our dogs were the only ones that didn't care for the Canidae. I had Bella Mia and Sir Micro on it a long time ago and they really didn't care for it after about a month. Then when we got Blackjack I tried it again and Sir Micro said no again but Wookie and Blackjack ate it for about a week.







I wonder why our dogs do this? I have heard from other people their dogs LOVE IT. 

Nature's Variety and Natural Balance seem to be the most popularly sold around here. I see them most often. I think so far what I like the looks of are Primal and Steve's... so more reading for me.

Thanks again for your replies!

Melanie


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## totallytotontuffy (May 16, 2007)

> Thank you for the replies. Brit I feel like you do, I am not fond of this but I certainly am not happy with other foods currently. What a mess pet owners have been handed. And with Sir Micro being the picky eater he is I really have to make sure he eats.
> 
> I was thinking our dogs were the only ones that didn't care for the Canidae. I had Bella Mia and Sir Micro on it a long time ago and they really didn't care for it after about a month. Then when we got Blackjack I tried it again and Sir Micro said no again but Wookie and Blackjack ate it for about a week.
> 
> ...


Hi Melanie,

I've been using Nature's Variety for around 3 years. Toto and Tuffy do very well on it. I used to add plain boiled chicken to it but switched to cooked sweet potato and sometimes add cooked green beans as well. I buy the chicken/turkey medallions, 1 medallion, two times a day. I can't leave kibble down to supplement because Tuffy would eat it until the bowl was empty. I don't recall the name of the brand, but the vet suggested that I add omega 3 oil to their food (snip tips maybe) and I do that a few times a week. It's very good for them but sheesh they have very fishy breath from it.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I think I'm going to supplement with Flaxseed rather than fish oil for the omega vitamins.

One way to eliminate fish breath .. lol.



F.A. Granules: Omega-3 & Omega-6 Fatty Acid Supplement: canine: dog


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

THANKS! Our doggies get an Organic Flaxseed Oil Omega - 3- softgel 3 - 4 times a week so I think we are set with this. YEAH!


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## blueannie (May 6, 2007)

I don't feed my dogs all raw yet. Still considering and researching the idea. 
They do eat Nature's Varitey medallions, though. Right now they get them 3-4 times a week at suppertime. For breakfast they still eat kibbles, sometimes mixed with canned - usually the canned that is 95% meat with no grain. 

The NV, they seem to like the beef best with the chicken coming in second. Two of mine like the lamb but one won't touch it.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

> I think I'm going to supplement with Flaxseed rather than fish oil for the omega vitamins.
> 
> One way to eliminate fish breath .. lol.
> 
> ...



Solid Gold make the flaxseed oil that you measure and pour.

http://www.solidgoldnorthwest.com/products...p/pro_flax.html


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## Joey's Mom2 (Aug 24, 2004)

> Solid Gold make the flaxseed oil that you measure and pour.
> 
> http://www.solidgoldnorthwest.com/products...p/pro_flax.html[/B]


Thank you for the website!


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## patsan (Mar 2, 2006)

Mine have been doing fantastic on raw since they started a few months ago. I combine raw and home cooked.
I think it's pretty gross, but I have never seen my pups eat like they do since they're off commercial kibble. They hop skip and jump for their meals now.
For those of you wanting a coupon for raw, here is one:

http://www.naturesvariety.com/tryit/index2.lasso


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## barb (Apr 3, 2006)

I think I am going to go out today and buy Nature's Variety. The thought of raw food is disgusting, besides the fact that I thought too much protein was not good. Roxie eats canidae, it is the only thing I can get her to eat, and of course only the chicken & rice. It is usually a game, and I have to hand feed her. I have probably created a monster, but sometimes she just won't eat and I think she will wither(sp?) away to nothing. At least I know I am not alone. Sometimes in the morning, never at night, don't ask me why, she will eat one of the royal canin dry foods. I wish I could just give her food like a normal dog, and she would just gobble it up and be happy to wait, with tail wagging, for the next meal. I do not know what happened with the other brands that made you switch (besides the recall), but I trust you guys. It looks like Melanie has done quite a bit of research. Have you found anything negative about feeding raw food? Is it cooked a little bit? 

I had left a message with Flint River Ranch, phone call and email, to find a distributor in my area, but they never responded. She probably wouldn't eat it anyway. Then I started reading more about Nature's Variety, of course thanks to the awesome members of this website, which I always recommend when I see a maltese owner! Why do you give flaxseed or omega oil? Is that a recomendation? Could you get that in vitamins like the missing link? Speaking of which, does anyone also use these. I can't even remember to take vitamins myself!!!!









Thanks,
Barb & Roxie

Sorry I have been off for a little while. I do occasionally sneak on and read, unfortunately the last few times had bad news, which was very upsetting. But it is always great to see the same names here.


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## patsan (Mar 2, 2006)

Most foods we feed our dogs gave enough omega 6 but not enough omega 3 fatty acids. The fish oil will provide that omega 3. I have read on some of my other groups, that flaxseed could be a contributer to allergies , and more people than not there prefer to give either salmon oil or fish oil, since they usually don't need additional omega 6, which the flaxseed oil provides.


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

I used Nature's Variety when first trying raw, Shiva loved it, but it grossed me out, she hates having her face cleaned and there were some small bone pieces in the food that she would spit out and I was afraid of her possibly choking on them (she's 3.2 pounds). 

Now we use Stella and Chewy freeze dried raw chicken and beef patties. Its much less messier than the frozen patties.


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## barb (Apr 3, 2006)

Ok, I just went out and bought Nature's Variety food. Hopefully she will eat it, not like every other brand I bought. I had to buy beef, because they did not have the frozen chicken. They had a small bag of lamb, but she never will eat lamb. I bought a can of chicken & turkey. Plus a bag of kibble-chicken. The little medallion thing is sitting on a dish looking very much like it needs to be cooked. I cut it up a little so it will thaw out faster. Are you sure I can't nuke this thing for 10 seconds. Maybe that would at least kill the bacteria. I am very nervous to give raw meat to this little dog. Maybe she will turn into Cujo- LOL.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

> I think I am going to go out today and buy Nature's Variety. The thought of raw food is disgusting, besides the fact that I thought too much protein was not good. Roxie eats canidae, it is the only thing I can get her to eat, and of course only the chicken & rice. It is usually a game, and I have to hand feed her. I have probably created a monster, but sometimes she just won't eat and I think she will wither(sp?) away to nothing. At least I know I am not alone. Sometimes in the morning, never at night, don't ask me why, she will eat one of the royal canin dry foods. I wish I could just give her food like a normal dog, and she would just gobble it up and be happy to wait, with tail wagging, for the next meal. I do not know what happened with the other brands that made you switch (besides the recall), but I trust you guys. It looks like Melanie has done quite a bit of research. Have you found anything negative about feeding raw food? Is it cooked a little bit?
> 
> I had left a message with Flint River Ranch, phone call and email, to find a distributor in my area, but they never responded. She probably wouldn't eat it anyway. Then I started reading more about Nature's Variety, of course thanks to the awesome members of this website, which I always recommend when I see a maltese owner! Why do you give flaxseed or omega oil? Is that a recomendation? Could you get that in vitamins like the missing link? Speaking of which, does anyone also use these. I can't even remember to take vitamins myself!!!!
> 
> ...



I use missing link when I feed home cooking.



> Ok, I just went out and bought Nature's Variety food. Hopefully she will eat it, not like every other brand I bought. I had to buy beef, because they did not have the frozen chicken. They had a small bag of lamb, but she never will eat lamb. I bought a can of chicken & turkey. Plus a bag of kibble-chicken. The little medallion thing is sitting on a dish looking very much like it needs to be cooked. I cut it up a little so it will thaw out faster. Are you sure I can't nuke this thing for 10 seconds. Maybe that would at least kill the bacteria. I am very nervous to give raw meat to this little dog. Maybe she will turn into Cujo- LOL.[/B]




LOL....I nuke it for 30 seconds just to get the juices flowing...I tried them on the Primal beef and Mia threw up...I don't know if it was the beef (red meat) or the brand itself. She is use to eating the Nature's Variety chicken & turkey. (white meat)


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## patsan (Mar 2, 2006)

No, don't nuke it.....it will ruin the nutrition that way.
Dog's stomachs are not like ours, and have much different enzymes in it. They can handle bacteria that we can't.
It's also good to give them some probiotics to get all the proper intestinal bacteria.
She will be fine....so calm down.


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## barb (Apr 3, 2006)

I did it. (Ick) I first gave her a kibble to see if she would eat it. I cut if in half to make it more enticing, although they are actually small, which is good. She put it in her mouth, and let it fall out. Looked at me, and did it again, then she picked it up and ate it. I didn't even have to play the kibble game. That is a good sign, but time will tell. Then came the yucky part. It really does look like raw hamburger. Thanks for the info to NOT nuke it. She ACTUALLY ATE IT. I rarely can put something on a plate and she will eat it. Sometimes she will eat chicken or steak that we eat, but even then it has to be on the floor, or on a paper towel. She does not like to eat off a plate, even a small saucer. Then in order to get her to eat the canidae, I have to really coax her, with small bites on my finger or a paper towel. I know, but what else can I do.
She ate this off my finger, then she started to eat it off the plate. I took it away because I did not want her to eat the whole medallian yet, although she ate most of it. Then she followed me to the sink like she would eat more. Unbelievable. Now should I try to give her the Canidae so it doesn't upset her system. I doubt that she will eat it. Maybe I will see if another store has a small bag of the chicken. I thought too much protein was hard on the liver. Does anyone know?


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Raw meat is good for them. It contains enzymes that are destroyed when cooked. Unfortunately my little bugger wants everything cooked. He does not like raw.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

I asked my vet and nuking it for 30 sec. will not lose any nutrients........I also forgot to mentioned do not kiss her or let her kiss you until you wash her face or wait awhile at least.


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> I think I am going to go out today and buy Nature's Variety. The thought of raw food is disgusting, besides the fact that I thought too much protein was not good. Roxie eats canidae, it is the only thing I can get her to eat, and of course only the chicken & rice. It is usually a game, and I have to hand feed her. I have probably created a monster, but sometimes she just won't eat and I think she will wither(sp?) away to nothing. At least I know I am not alone. Sometimes in the morning, never at night, don't ask me why, she will eat one of the royal canin dry foods. I wish I could just give her food like a normal dog, and she would just gobble it up and be happy to wait, with tail wagging, for the next meal. I do not know what happened with the other brands that made you switch (besides the recall), but I trust you guys. It looks like Melanie has done quite a bit of research. Have you found anything negative about feeding raw food? Is it cooked a little bit?
> 
> I had left a message with Flint River Ranch, phone call and email, to find a distributor in my area, but they never responded. She probably wouldn't eat it anyway. Then I started reading more about Nature's Variety, of course thanks to the awesome members of this website, which I always recommend when I see a maltese owner! Why do you give flaxseed or omega oil? Is that a recomendation? Could you get that in vitamins like the missing link? Speaking of which, does anyone also use these. I can't even remember to take vitamins myself!!!!
> 
> ...


 

OH no you are not alone by any means. I think a very good percent of the people on SM could say they have had some "feeding" issue at one time or another and then a good bit could always be dealing with one.



I agree with you, Raw is disgusting but just like doing somethings I did for my children I would do that for my doggie. And if raw is truely better for him, then raw it is.







And I can't tell you how often I have thought back to my Danes or Golden or Lab and wondered why Micro and Wookie won't eat like they did. Just as you said, happy and waiting for the next meal with a wagging tail.

Guess what, I am happy to report, that not only Blackjack and Wookie do that now, but so does Sir Micro, our PICKY eater. When they see me walk into the kitchen they are at my heels and looking at the fridge. hehehe they love this food! The raw food we are trying is not only raw meat, there is also veggies and fruits mixed in. It is not cooked but mixed well. And yes, I have done a lot of research about this. I only wish I had done this sooner.

So far we have tried the Nature's Variety Chicken and Turkey, and Lamb. ODDLY enough both Blackjack and Micro threw up some of the lamb and then Micro wasn't that thrilled with it the next time, but he did eat it. Wookie doesn't seem to have any "de-tox" effects from the raw yet. We have not tried the Beef though. Friday I am going down to pick up some Primal and see how they like that brand. From all I read I liked that one more.

I also give the doggies baby carrots and green beans daily, plus some yogart and cottage cheese from time to time. 

I have not checked out "Missing Link" yet, so I can't comment about it. I know there are others on SM that use it they may help you with that. I give our doggie the Omega 3, I do, because I had seen great things happen with coats and health while on it. Since our dogs have been on it, I can tell you they don't seem to matt as much if at all. Magic or luck, who knows? Pat



Good luck dealing with the raw, it's worth it I feel though.

enJOY!

Melanie


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## patsan (Mar 2, 2006)

The high protein is not bad at all for a healthy dog.

It took my oldest a few minutes longer to eat this raw food when we started. He ate it the first day but he had to do it VERY slowly the first time. I'm happy to say he no longer wolfs his food down, and eats anything I give him. I don't even buy the frozen now, and make my own since I have the 3 to feed. It's less expensive that way for me.

The only bad thing is vets usually don't get much nutritional training in school, and many of them know a lot less about the foods than we do.

A reason you don't want to nuke the food:
Never microwave any pet food. Microwaves cause the fat molecules to radically change, making fats less digestible, and ultimately they can become harmful to your pet’s long term health.
Even using hot water to heat the food will reduce the enzymatic properties, as well as deplete the nutrient values of the raw foods.


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## barb (Apr 3, 2006)

Thanks for all the info, as always you guys are great. I didn't even think about kissing. blah. cooties from raw meat







. She always kisses us.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

I stand by what I said about the nuking...I specifically asked the vet and she is pro-raw and has done alot of research.....since it doesn't include the regular additives and processed ingredients that normal pet foods do it is fine to microwave it for 30 seconds...you do not want to microwave it for a longer period of time since the grinded bones can become brittle.


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> Thanks for all the info, as always you guys are great. I didn't even think about kissing. blah. cooties from raw meat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

OH yes, that is the only drawback! No kissing! Wookie is confused about this.









Melanie


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## starry (Sep 4, 2006)

> Raw meat is good for them. It contains enzymes that are destroyed when cooked. Unfortunately my little bugger wants everything cooked. He does not like raw.[/B]


Jane,
I took Star (R.I.P.) to a nuerologist in Houston and discovered she had toxoplasmosis (this deadly parasite comes from cat feces or raw meat) she did not make it.








He said he would NEVER feed a dog raw meat. They have evolved too much.
My regular vet thgt raw meat was ok.








I guess everyone must decide if their dog can handle it.
I won't take a chance on the raw now.
Star was small and maybe not that healthy to begin with, I will never know.
Just wanted to give my experience.








p.s. I do feed some human food and kibble.


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## barb (Apr 3, 2006)

Well that is a negative. Did you have a cat. Roxie is small also. So is Mr. Wookie. Now that is something else to worry about. I would think they cook it a small amount. I had read something once about radiating beef in the store, kind of like microwaving. I think it killed the Mad Cow disease, but I honestly can't remember. Any one else have any thoughts. I am so sorry about your little Star.


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=394208
> 
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I am so sorry for your loss of Star. What a shame.

I found this information on toxoplasmosis online to help other's understand about it. Usually a healthy system can take care of this parasite from what I learned.


*What is toxoplasmosis?*
A single-celled parasite called _Toxoplasma gondii_ causes a disease known as toxoplasmosis. While the parasite is found throughout the world, more than 60 million people in the United States may be infected with the Toxoplasma parasite. Of those who are infected, very few have symptoms because a healthy person's immune system usually keeps the parasite from causing illness. However, pregnant women and individuals who have compromised immune systems should be cautious; for them, a _Toxoplasma_ infection could cause serious health problems. 

<div align="right">

*How do people get toxoplasmosis? *
A _Toxoplasma_ infection occurs by:
Receiving an infected organ transplant or blood transfusion, though this is rare. 
*What is the treatment for toxoplasmosis?*
Once a diagnosis of toxoplasmosis is confirmed, you and your health care provider can discuss whether treatment is necessary. In an otherwise healthy person who is not pregnant, treatment usually is not needed. If symptoms occur, they typically go away within a few weeks to months. For pregnant women or persons who have weakened immune systems, medications are available to treat toxoplasmosis. 



*So WASH your hands when feeding your dog raw food. Wash all surfaces as well that may have been touched by the raw food. And do not let the bowl sit on the floor, pick it up and wash it as well. Or toss that paper plate out.







*

*enJOY!
Melanie*


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

There are two different schools of thought on feeding raw that will probably never agree, but those who oppose it say just what Starry's first vet said, that domestic dogs have evolved too much from their wolf ancestors to be safely fed a raw diet. Concerns about salmonella and E coli are always brought up whenever there is a debate on the safety of a raw diet.

I don't know if any of you remember, but I nearly lost my Lady to an E coli urinary tract infection this winter. The scary thing about E coli is that it has become very resistant to antibiotics and often doesn't respond to them. IV antibiotics are the next step when the orals fail and they can be very dangerous. And again, even IV antibiotics may not be successful against E coli.

I was fortunate that through hit or miss, we were able to find a combination of antibiotics that worked, but it was a very scary six weeks. Lady had to be hospitalized once, I had to learn how to give her subq fluids at home to keep her out of the hospital again and the whole thing cost $700 in vet bills and another several hundred in antibiotics, most of which didn't work.

For those of you who switched to raw because of the recall, but have concerns, why not fed Natures Variety kibble and canned food? That's what I feed Lady. I have followed it ever since this recall started and it is one of the few that is still safe it seems.


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## barb (Apr 3, 2006)

How did you know Lady had an E-coli infection. What were the symptoms. 
I never thought about toxoplasmosis. I though that was mostly undercooked pork. When I bought this food, I had read a few things, plus the website, nothing really negative. Now I have found several negative things. What the heck is right. If you feed lady the kibble and the canned, isn't that raw also, or does it have to be processed to be canned. The kibble says it has a freeze dried raw coating, or something. I am really concerned about the kissing. She always kisses us, plus the neighbors have two little girls. The 3 year old comes over and plays with Roxie, and she gives her kisses. I really can't control it. She could kiss her hand, then she could put it in her mouth or touch something of the babies. I just didn't think about this aspect of it. I can control washing the plates and stuff like that, but not really the other. This may not be good for us, Of course she ate it!!! Now that I have that bag I wonder if I could cook it. Maybe I will write a letter to the company. I was so excited, people with picky eaters were having good experiences, and she actually ate it. I am worried about the kissing. Thanks for bringing it up. It is important. This is really a big dilemma for me. Maybe they should have put a warning on the food. I am going to look at the frozen bag right now. I know it said about washing, nothing about kissing.

I just called the Vet's office. Of course they were of no help. They said some vets say it is ok, some don't. It depends on the dog. I could make an appointment (office visit $) and discuss it with the vet. Can't they just have an opinion? How come they never get on the phone, like a doctor. I havn't had one lately that would do that. When you have a pediatrician, they get on the phone and talk to you sometimes. At least mine did when the kids were small, of course that was 30 years ago.


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> How did you know Lady had an E-coli infection. What were the symptoms.
> I never thought about toxoplasmosis. I though that was mostly undercooked pork. When I bought this food, I had read a few things, plus the website, nothing really negative. Now I have found several negative things. What the heck is right. If you feed lady the kibble and the canned, isn't that raw also, or does it have to be processed to be canned. The kibble says it has a freeze dried raw coating, or something. I am really concerned about the kissing. She always kisses us, plus the neighbors have two little girls. The 3 year old comes over and plays with Roxie, and she gives her kisses. I really can't control it. She could kiss her hand, then she could put it in her mouth or touch something of the babies. I just didn't think about this aspect of it. I can control washing the plates and stuff like that, but not really the other. This may not be good for us, Of course she ate it!!! Now that I have that bag I wonder if I could cook it. Maybe I will write a letter to the company. I was so excited, people with picky eaters were having good experiences, and she actually ate it. I am worried about the kissing. Thanks for bringing it up. It is important. This is really a big dilemma for me. Maybe they should have put a warning on the food. I am going to look at the frozen bag right now. I know it said about washing, nothing about kissing.
> 
> I just called the Vet's office. Of course they were of no help. They said some vets say it is ok, some don't. It depends on the dog. I could make an appointment (office visit $) and discuss it with the vet. Can't they just have an opinion? How come they never get on the phone, like a doctor. I havn't had one lately that would do that. When you have a pediatrician, they get on the phone and talk to you sometimes. At least mine did when the kids were small, *of course that was 30 years ago.*[/B]


 

Saddly Barb you hit the nail right on the head, twice when I have had to call Sara's doctor about something, the doctor she has seen for 12 years. I have to play 20 questions with the person answering the phone and I don't even know what their education is.

We all need to think twice or five times about what we are feeding our doggies but for us right now I know this is best.

Good luck and oh I am so do understand your issues. I am so super happy you thought about your neighbors.

enJOY!
Melanie


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## totallytotontuffy (May 16, 2007)

> I did it. (Ick) I first gave her a kibble to see if she would eat it. I cut if in half to make it more enticing, although they are actually small, which is good. She put it in her mouth, and let it fall out. Looked at me, and did it again, then she picked it up and ate it. I didn't even have to play the kibble game. That is a good sign, but time will tell. Then came the yucky part. It really does look like raw hamburger. Thanks for the info to NOT nuke it. She ACTUALLY ATE IT. I rarely can put something on a plate and she will eat it. Sometimes she will eat chicken or steak that we eat, but even then it has to be on the floor, or on a paper towel. She does not like to eat off a plate, even a small saucer. Then in order to get her to eat the canidae, I have to really coax her, with small bites on my finger or a paper towel. I know, but what else can I do.
> She ate this off my finger, then she started to eat it off the plate. I took it away because I did not want her to eat the whole medallian yet, although she ate most of it. Then she followed me to the sink like she would eat more. Unbelievable. Now should I try to give her the Canidae so it doesn't upset her system. I doubt that she will eat it. Maybe I will see if another store has a small bag of the chicken. I thought too much protein was hard on the liver. Does anyone know?[/B]


Is there a particular brand of paper towel that she prefers???


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

All I do is wash their faces after they eat......This is also a good site for some of your questions. http://www.barfworld.com/


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Barb, here is the Nature's Variety website. It can tell you all about their different products. As I said, I have been thrilled with the results I have seen in Lady on the Prairie canned and kibble. I have been feeding her Prairie for almost a year now, way before the pet food recall. Her allergies have been so much better on this food since it is high protein and little (kibble) or no (canned) grains. I rotate through the foods as suggested.

http://www.naturesvariety.com/

I'm only guessing, but I suspect your vet wants to consult with you about switching to raw food because not every dog should eat uncooked food. A dog with any health issues which could compromise his immune system and make him more susceptible to infection from the bacteria found in raw food should not be fed a raw diet. I'd guess he wants to evaluate your dog's heath first, then warn you of the risks so he can advise you if a raw diet would be safe for your dog.

Lady's E coli was found by doing a culture. She tested positive for not one, but three different strains of E coli! That's one of the reasons it is so darned difficult to kill as it has mutated into so many different strains and has become very resistant to antibiotics. I actually talked to my infectious disease doctor (for a post surgical infection) about Lady when she was so sick. He said years ago he could just look at the lab results and know excatly which antibiotic to prescribe. What used to be the frontline drugs like the sulfa drugs have become very resistant to E coli. He said you just keep trying different drugs and different combinations and cross your fingers you get lucky.

Since that happened to Lady, I have had several people email or pm me about friends who have dogs who are unsuccessfully battling E coli infections and are desperate to find an antibiotic that works.

There has been so much panic because of the pet food recall that I think many people are switching to a raw diet without really researching it first or discussing it with their vet. I think it's important to be aware that there are some risks and not every dog can eat raw food safely. It's a decison that should be made after consulting with your vet IMO.


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## barb (Apr 3, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=394206
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Thanks for making me laugh when I was stressing out. Too Funny!!!! Don't tell her there is more than one!!!




> Barb, here is the Nature's Variety website. It can tell you all about their different products. As I said, I have been thrilled with the results I have seen in Lady on the Prairie canned and kibble. I have been feeding her Prairie for almost a year now, way before the pet food recall. Her allergies have been so much better on this food since it is high protein and little (kibble) or no (canned) grains. I rotate through the foods as suggested.
> 
> http://www.naturesvariety.com/
> 
> ...


How did you know Lady was sick? I am curious about the symptoms for e coli, and how did she get it.
You are probably right. But I just went to the Vet a few days ago because of Diarrhea possibly caused from vaccines. I think they should know her well enough to talk to you a little bit about it over the phone. They do have the charts. It just seems everything is an office visit these days, and it's not like we have insurance. It's feels like HMO for pets. UGH


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Lady had a urinary tract infection caused by E coli. She had the typical uti symptoms, frequent peeing, blood in urine, etc. and a course of Clavamox didn't clear it up so my vet did a sterile culture.

These are excerpts from an article from the Michigan State Vet School. It mentions how urinary tract infections, not just gastrointestinal infections, can occur from eating contaminated food. It also calls E coli "drug resistant" as both my vet and infectious disease doctor did.



THE RAW TRUTH: THE CONTROVERSY OF RAW FOOD DIETS

A variety of gastrointestinal pathogens have been found in raw diets and
the feces of animals who eat raw diets, including E. coli, Salmonella, Clostridium perfringes and
difficile, Staph aureus, and cryptosporidium.

Not only does E coli poses a threat to animals who eat raw diets, it is also considered a marker
for contamination by potentially pathogenic enteric microorganisms. In Strohmeyer’s study,
59.6% of raw meat samples were positive for E. coli. This compares to 20% of samples of
cooked products. Weese et al found that 64% of raw meat diets were positive for E. coli. Their
study found that the coliform levels in all diets were in excess of the maximum allowable level
of 1000 CFU/g for raw meat set by Canadian food inspection agency.

It is also important to realize that although we usually think about gastrointestinal infections
from contaminated food, infections in other areas of the body can result. For example, in 2005
there was a multi-state outbreak of urinary tract infections in humans caused by drug-resistant E
coli that was thought to be due to contaminated food. While this outbreak was in humans, similar
infections are also possible in canines and felines.

http://www.michvma.org/documents/MVC%20Pro...ings/Prober.pdf


BTW, female dogs are more prone to uti's caused by E coli because of their anatomy. As Dr. Jaimie put it so well, "the poop chute is right next to the pee chute"! If E coli gets into the intestinal tract, it's easily spread to the urinary tract.

I'm not sure why your vet would want you to come in for a special consult about switching to a raw food diet if he just saw her, though. Maybe just wanted to go through all the risks with you face to face?


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## starry (Sep 4, 2006)

> Well that is a negative. Did you have a cat. Roxie is small also. So is Mr. Wookie. Now that is something else to worry about. I would think they cook it a small amount. I had read something once about radiating beef in the store, kind of like microwaving. I think it killed the Mad Cow disease, but I honestly can't remember. Any one else have any thoughts. I am so sorry about your little Star.[/B]


Thank you about Star.








No I do not have a cat and she NEVER went out or anywhere w/out me.
I fed her the frozen meat medalions sold at the pet stores in the freezer section.
(Sorry to those that have heard this before







).
My Lhasa was fine but I noticed Star thru hers up. I didn't think anything except ok her stomach is more sensitve so I didn't give her anymore. I also threw them away.
When I bought them I asked the "boy" at the petstore about the risks & he said they are frozen soo cold it kills any bacteria.(obviously not!)
She was also diagnosed with GME but I think the toxplasmosis was more of a factor as the vet could not confirm GME as much as the toxo.








Also looking back on her records I noticed the vet gave her a rabis shot when she was 3months and barely 3lbs.







I feel all these things combined doomed her.








I have learned more now and also have a new vet.
I am not trying to promote of discourage or judge anyone's choice of food. This was just my experience.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Freezing doesn't kill E coli either. That's why it's important to talk to your vet, not rely on what the salesperson at the pet store tells you.


The bacterium E. coli O157:H7, also just known as O157, is a rare but dangerous type of E. coli. It lives in the intestinal tracts of mammals and man. Some cattle carry the bacteria. It can be transferred from animal to animal, animal to man, from animal to man on food, and from person to person through close contact or food. E.coli O157:H7 can survive refrigeration and freezer storage. If present, it can multiply slowly even at 44 °F. Thorough cooking to 160 °F is the best safeguard against infection.  

http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC3700.htm


Like Starry, I'm not trying to promote or disocurage anyone from choosing to feed a raw diet. I just want to share what I learned from my experience battling Lady's E coli infection.


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## barb (Apr 3, 2006)

Thank you so much for both sides of this issue. I don't think anyone would judge one way or the other, but it is nice to say that. You have all been very helpful. I do have to say she ate the medallian right up. I gave her a little more food tonight, her old canidae. Chasing her around trying to get her to eat. She takes a bite and hides her head under the chair with her butt sticking out. My husband is cracking up. I should have had him take a picture, some people could relate.
I don't know about anyone else, but when I was growing up we gave dogs big raw bones that they buried, or had for days. How good could that have been.

Thank you all so much for the input. I probably will not use the raw food, just a comfort level for me. I don't know yet. If anyone lives in the Santa Clarita Valley, I will bring it to you if you want to try it. I did write the company a note, I will be curious to see what they say.


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## dolcevita (Aug 3, 2005)

I have to wonder how safe the raw food brands are--how do you know if they use human grade ingredients or not? I'm just suspicious about any food that I haven't prepared myself. I'm so confused about all the contradictory information regarding what the best diet for dogs is. Why is it so hard to get a definitive answer? I feel like the more research I do, the less I know!


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

> I have to wonder how safe the raw food brands are--how do you know if they use human grade ingredients or not? I'm just suspicious about any food that I haven't prepared myself. I'm so confused about all the contradictory information regarding what the best diet for dogs is. Why is it so hard to get a definitive answer? I feel like the more research I do, the less I know![/B]


 

If mine would eat the raw meat, I would only feed the same meat I buy for ourself. I don't trust those prepackaged frozen foods. You don't know what happened during the shipping time between the plant and the store. That food could have been defrosted and refrosted a number of time. And that's when bacteria gets in it. I would ONLY buy FRESH meat from the store, meat that has never been frozen. I am even reluctant to buy GROUND meat and NEVER buy the prepackaged one. Most of the time I buy the piece of meat and ground it myself. Ground meat picks up bacteria very quickly. It should even be eaten the same day it is ground. When it comes to food, I am very picky and careful.


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## Joey's Mom2 (Aug 24, 2004)

> Ok, I just went out and bought Nature's Variety food. Hopefully she will eat it, not like every other brand I bought. I had to buy beef, because they did not have the frozen chicken. They had a small bag of lamb, but she never will eat lamb. I bought a can of chicken & turkey. Plus a bag of kibble-chicken. The little medallion thing is sitting on a dish looking very much like it needs to be cooked. I cut it up a little so it will thaw out faster. Are you sure I can't nuke this thing for 10 seconds. Maybe that would at least kill the bacteria. I am very nervous to give raw meat to this little dog. Maybe she will turn into Cujo- LOL.[/B]


Fendi hates the lamb. I feel bad for her, because she'll eventually eat it, but she really doesn't like it. Whereas, the chicken and turkey one she consumes in less than 2 minutes! I think I'll get beef or venison next. Hopefully she'll like those. I'm sure she will because she's usually not a picky eater at all.


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> > I am not trying to promote of discourage or judge anyone's choice of food. This was just my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## starry (Sep 4, 2006)

> > > I am not trying to promote of discourage or judge anyone's choice of food. This was just my experience.
> >
> >
> >
> ...


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## patsan (Mar 2, 2006)

For those of you who are so afraid of bacteria and other issues associated with feeding raw, you can check out these links, educate yourself a little better, and then make your decision if it's right for your dog or not.

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html 
http://rawfed.com/myths/zoonotic.html


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

> For those of you who are so afraid of bacteria and other issues associated with feeding raw, you can check out these links, educate yourself a little better, and then make your decision if it's right for your dog or not.
> 
> http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
> http://rawfed.com/myths/zoonotic.html[/B]



Thanks for the links. Very helpful. I appreciate all the information you have been giving to help those people who are interesting in learning. Thank You.


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## patsan (Mar 2, 2006)

> Thanks for the links. Very helpful. I appreciate all the information you have been giving to help those people who are interesting in learning. Thank You.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're welcome. I just see too many posts from people who don't know all the facts before they post replies, and it's scaring others who are interested in feeding raw.
While there are some negatives (or risks rather) to feeding raw, I think people should read as much as they can to figure out if this is what they feel is best for them. The risks involved with feeding raw sure are still nowhere near the risks involved with feeding kibble.

I have wanted to feed raw for 5 years now, but was always afraid to try it. I read, and researched, and knew it was better than the kibble they were getting (and I fed premium kibble), but still chickened out going for it.
Once the massive food recall started, I knew it was time to get off my butt and do the best thing for these kids. I more or less bit the bullet and went full force into it. I didn't do it gradually, but cold turkey, and we had NO problems whatsoever. I knew my kids were healthy, so it made it easier for me to do it. If I had sickly dogs, I would still do it, but would have had to research more just what a non healthy raw dog should be fed.

I'm still not going about this 100% correctly, because I'm still afraid to give them bones unless I grind them up. But I am working my way towards that. I just need a little more time to get braver for that part of it.


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## Joey's Mom2 (Aug 24, 2004)

> You're welcome. I just see too many posts from people who don't know all the facts before they post replies, and it's scaring others who are interested in feeding raw.
> While there are some negatives (or risks rather) to feeding raw, I think people should read as much as they can to figure out if this is what they feel is best for them. The risks involved with feeding raw sure are still nowhere near the risks involved with feeding kibble.
> 
> I have wanted to feed raw for 5 years now, but was always afraid to try it. I read, and researched, and knew it was better than the kibble they were getting (and I fed premium kibble), but still chickened out going for it.
> ...


Thanks so much Patsan! I think your post is long overdue. You're right. Commercial pet food isn't exactly great food either, otherwise there wouldn't be this massive food recall. Just because a certain food isn't on the list, doesn't mean it's great. There could still be potentially harmful foods out there not yet discovered. The recall really made me "bite the bullet" too and I, just like you am not going raw 100% as should be either, but I'm gradually working my way there. I must say too that since I have started feeding her raw, her tear stains improved dramatically, her teeth had less plaque, and her stools wree firmer than ever. I think that it is good to get both sides of the story, however, the original post was about who fed raw, and what kind--not whether feeding raw is bad or good. That should be a separate post so that everyone has a fair shot at reading and giving inputs to further enrich each other of alternative diet IMHO. 


Starry, again so sorry to hear about your situation. Since reading about experiences (way back when) I have always been keeping aware of potential risks and am ALWAYS careful. It's one of the reasons why I am such a chicken to change her diet. And I always think about you and your heartache when I feel myself becoming complacent. Again, so sorry and I hope you never have to experience something awful like that again. Thanks for continuing to remind us.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> QUOTE





> Thanks for the links. Very helpful. I appreciate all the information you have been giving to help those people who are interesting in learning. Thank You.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're welcome. I just see too many posts from people who don't know all the facts before they post replies, and it's scaring others who are interested in feeding raw.
While there are some negatives (or risks rather) to feeding raw, I think people should read as much as they can to figure out if this is what they feel is best for them. The risks involved with feeding raw sure are still nowhere near the risks involved with feeding kibble.

I have wanted to feed raw for 5 years now, but was always afraid to try it. I read, and researched, and knew it was better than the kibble they were getting (and I fed premium kibble), but still chickened out going for it.
Once the massive food recall started, I knew it was time to get off my butt and do the best thing for these kids. I more or less bit the bullet and went full force into it. I didn't do it gradually, but cold turkey, and we had NO problems whatsoever. I knew my kids were healthy, so it made it easier for me to do it. If I had sickly dogs, I would still do it, but would have had to research more just what a non healthy raw dog should be fed.

I'm still not going about this 100% correctly, because I'm still afraid to give them bones unless I grind them up. But I am working my way towards that. I just need a little more time to get braver for that part of it.
[/B][/QUOTE]

It was certainly not my intent nor was it Starry's I believe to "scare" anyone. We both just thought it important to share our personal story of a battle with dangerous bacteria. E coli is very frightening to battle today since it has become so resistant to antibiotics. I wasn't aware of that until Lady got so sick and didn't respond to antibiotics. I think it's important to share that kind of information.

What is important when deciding whether or not to feed raw is to make an educated decison in consultation with your vet IMO. I discussed it several years ago with my vet since Lady has so many health issues thinking it might be better for her. My vet said absolutely not, that a dog with a compromised immune system could not handle the bacteria like a heathy dog could and should not be fed a raw diet. 

I think you need to be careful about making unsubstantiated statements like "the risks involved with feeding raw sure are still nowhere near the risks involved with feeding kibble" unless you are a veterinarian or a canine nutritionist. There is a lot of debate and controversy on the safety and benefits of raw diets because there is still no clearcut answer. Just like switching to a home cooked diet, I thinking switching to a raw diet should be done thoughtfully along with the expert opinion of your vet to make sure your dog is getting the best nutrition possible. 

The pet food recall has scared us all, but I think it's very important that we make informed decisions about what to feed our pets, whether it be raw, home cooked or commercial kibble, and not to assume out of panic that anything is better than commercial kibble.

Again, I have no definate opinion about a raw diet one way or another. I just know that according to my vet, it is not approproate for Lady. I'm glad I asked Dr. Suzy.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Sorry Mel, don't do raw. Just wanted to get in the "raw" conversation ~ LOL

Just a comment to those of you who are going "raw" as a result of the dog-food recall. Human foods are recalled all the time. Just recently, we had packaged lettuce, spinach, and the news stated, today, that packaged onions are now being recalled. Meat and poultry has also been recalled. So you never know.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

I don't like the packaged stuff. It's a breading ground for bacteria. You don't really know how long those vegetables have been in that package. And what about the potatoes they serve you unpeeled ? Yuck. All vegetables that grow in the ground should be peeled. The skin is there to protect the inside from parasite and bacteria. People are chocked when I tell them I peel my mushrooms. Told you I am picky.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2007)

> Sorry Mel, don't do raw. Just wanted to get in the "raw" conversation ~ LOL
> 
> Just a comment to those of you who are going "raw" as a result of the dog-food recall. Human foods are recalled all the time. Just recently, we had packaged lettuce, spinach, and the news stated, today, that packaged onions are now being recalled. Meat and poultry has also been recalled. So you never know.[/B]


I don't think the pet food recall is the only concern however it has prompted more people to seek out answers about what is nutritionally sound for a dog's physiology and that, in my opinion, is a good thing. No matter which side of the issue you stand on I agree with the poster who said that the vet should not be pushing me to use a certain commerical brand or selling me pet food. A vet selling or promoting a certain brand of dog food is not objective.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=395066
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I think we all agree on that point


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

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I certainly agree on that point! Don't even get me started on Hills and Science Diet!


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## barb (Apr 3, 2006)

I appreciated everyone's imput. It was very informative and helpful. Probably both sides are right. I am usually a research nut, but when I read the good results you were getting with the raw I thought I would just give it a try. I had not paid much attention to it before. The website for Natures variety is very good so I just thought "why not". I did not give it my usual "check both sides", and I actually did not see anything negative at first. Of course Roxie really liked it, I think she was looking for more. (She didn't go hide her head under the couch like she normally does). I just do not feel comfortable with it right now. I do have to watch out for the little kids that come over, but I was so grateful for that information.

Sorry if I got off topic (smilie getting kicked in the butt). I posted and it sort of went in that direction. I was nervous..................old, forgetful, tired, hmmmm did I mention









Everyone has valid points and great evidence to substanciate them. That's what makes it so good, and so difficult at the same time.

I wonder if vets feed there dogs science diet? The girl that answered the phone at the vet's office said Hill & Science were the only "vet approved" or something like that, dog food. Especially since Hills is the prescription one.l


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> Sorry Mel, don't do raw. Just wanted to get in the "raw" conversation ~ LOL
> 
> Just a comment to those of you who are going "raw" as a result of the dog-food recall. Human foods are recalled all the time. Just recently, we had packaged lettuce, spinach, and the news stated, today, that packaged onions are now being recalled. Meat and poultry has also been recalled. So you never know.[/B]


 

Thanks for your imput just the same. Also thank you so much for giving further reason to do all the research one can before making any change.

Would be true, unless you do the butchering right from the live animal, how does anyone truely know? Scary to think about really, we "trust" so much.

enJOY!

Melanie


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

CNN is doing a special report on raw foods set to air July 2nd. It's about the human food industry, but I think the information would also be important to those feeding raw foods to pets.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/06/04/cn...food/index.html


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

<span style="font-family:tempus sans itc">This is NOT my experience. I've never used RAW food. But this is my gf's experience.

My gf told me she fed her dog raw food for 4 months and had to stop and go back to holisitc kibble. She said when her dog was on a raw diet, he would go crazy every time she got out meat to cook dinner. Jumping up sticking his nose on the counter....just being un-ruly. She felt it wasn't a good idea to keep him on it any longer because she couldn't cook without him getting obnoxious.







</span>


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

> <span style="font-family:tempus sans itc">This is NOT my experience. I've never used RAW food. But this is my gf's experience.
> 
> My gf told me she fed her dog raw food for 4 months and had to stop and go back to holisitc kibble. She said when her dog was on a raw diet, he would go crazy every time she got out meat to cook dinner. Jumping up sticking his nose on the counter....just being un-ruly. She felt it wasn't a good idea to keep him on it any longer because she couldn't cook without him getting obnoxious.
> 
> ...



This is my favorite reason of all to not feed raw!! I just thought it was funny....


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

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hmmmm







if Mr Wookie could jump up and stick his nose on the counter, I would be giving him anything he wanted.











Nooo really, I understand the trouble that would be. Shame she couldn't teach her dog otherwise.



Thanks for sharing this story.

enJOY!

Melanie


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## jadey (Nov 2, 2006)

i fed my furkids raw food for a day.
i stopped.
they loved it~ 
but it just got too messy for me, and i found something like a tiny bone piece.
so we are back on merricks and canidae kibble


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> i fed my furkids raw food for a day.
> i stopped.
> they loved it~
> but it just got too messy for me, and i found something like a tiny bone piece.
> so we are back on merricks and canidae kibble[/B]


 

The bones are suppose to be in for calcium, they are not cooked so they are digestable. And much better for our dogs then "powdered bones".



enJOY!
Melanie


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## jadey (Nov 2, 2006)

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thanks for explainning 
i wont lie, when i saw it... it kind of freaked me out so i took it out


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## dolcevita (Aug 3, 2005)

What is "powdered bones"? Is that the same as bone meal?


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=398907
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Believe me I understand... I can hardly handle looking at the raw food I feed our doggies but I do anyway, that is HOW much I love Mr Wookie! hehehee It took me a lot of reading to be informed enough to even think about this, let alone do it.

You are welcome.

Melanie





> What is "powdered bones"? Is that the same as bone meal?[/B]


 

<H3 id=siteSub>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</H3>Jump to: navigation, search*Bone meal* is a mixture of crushed and coarsely ground bones that is used as an organic fertilizer for plants and in animal feed. As a fertilizer, bone meal is primarily used as a source of phosphorus.

Bone meal once was often used as a dietary calcium supplement. Research in the 1980s found that many bone meal preparations were contaminated with lead and other toxic metals, and it is no longer recommended as a calcium source.



Yes Bone Meal is powdered bones.

Melanie


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