# different sizes



## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

Hi everyone,
I met a lady at the vet with a maltese -5 months old-. Her maltese was bigger in size than Snowy. I spoke to her and asked her if her puppy was mixed with another breed, but she told me that she was a pure maltese. She also said that there are two sizes of maltese -big size and a small size- Is that true?


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## Sylphide and Shrek's Mom (Dec 4, 2004)

Shrek is a large Maltese coming from average size parents. He is AKC registered. I think it's possible that there may have been a different ancestor out there (Westie, perhaps), but he has a Maltese coat, looks, and personality. Quite a few purebred Maltese are actually larger than the US Breed Standard (the weight and size standard is higher in Europe).


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Maltese are maltese, no matter what size. Some are smaller and some are larger. The standard is 
4-7 lbs but many pets go above and below. There is no term for them other than the typical made up
names like teacup and standard or miniature. This started with poodles oodles of years ago, by the way.


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

I never knew that. Thanks for the information


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## abbey (Apr 4, 2005)

I've always wondered about this myself.







Take for example, my Abbey - she barely weighs 4 lbs at 15 months old but she's quite long. She stands 8" at the withers but is 10 1/4" long from neck to root of tail, where others are height = length. I read once that different lines will produce shorter, taller, longer, etc. I'm not sure if that is true or not, though!


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> *Maltese are maltese, no matter what size.* Some are smaller and some are larger. The standard is
> 4-7 lbs but many pets go above and below. There is no term for them other than the typical made up
> names like teacup and standard or miniature. This started with poodles oodles of years ago, by the way.[/B]


I agree!


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

> I've always wondered about this myself.
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I believe that Snowy is the same. He weighs 3.7 kg -he is turning 2 31-march-, and he is quite long too, but short in height.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Here is the official standard from the American Maltese Association.

AKC Approved Breed Standard for Maltese

General Appearance - The Maltese is a toy dog covered from head to foot with a mantle of long, silky, white hair. He is gentle-mannered and affectionate, eager and sprightly in action, and, despite his size, possessed of the vigor needed for the satisfactory companion.

Head - Of medium length and in proportion to the size of the dog. The skull is slightly rounded on top, the stop moderate. The drop ears are rather low set and heavily feathered with long hair that hangs close to the head. Eyes are set not too far apart; they are very dark and round, their black rims enhancing the gentle yet alert expression. The muzzle is of medium length, fine and tapered but not snipy. The nose is black. The teeth meet in an even, edge-to-edge bite, or in a scissors bite.

Neck - Sufficient length of neck is desirable as promoting a high carriage of the head.

Body - Compact, the height from the withers to the ground equaling the length from the withers to the root of the tail. Shoulder blades are sloping, the elbows well knit and held close to the body. The back is level in topline, the ribs well sprung. The chest is fairly deep, the loins taut, strong, and just slightly tucked up underneath.

Tail - A long-haired plume carried gracefully over the back, its tip lying to the side over the quarter.

Legs and Feet - Legs are fine-boned and nicely feathered. Forelegs are straight, their pastern joints well knit and devoid of appreciable bend. Hind legs are strong and moderately angulated at stifles and hocks. The feet are small and round, with toe pads black. Scraggly hairs on the feet may be trimmed to give a neater appearance.

Coat and Color - The coat is single, that is, without undercoat. It hangs long, flat, and silky over the sides of the body almost, if not quite, to the ground. The long head-hair may be tied up in a topknot or it may be left hanging. Any suggestion of kinkiness, curliness, or woolly texture is objectionable. Color, pure white. Light tan or lemon on the ears is permissible, but not desirable.

Size - Weight under 7 pounds, with from 4 to 6 pounds preferred. Overall quality is to be favored over size.

Gait - The Maltese moves with a jaunty, smooth, flowing gait. Viewed from the side, he gives an impression of rapid movement, size considered. In the stride, the forelegs reach straight and free from the shoulders, with elbows close. Hind legs to move in a straight line. Cowhocks or any suggestion of hind leg toeing in or out are faults.

Temperament - For all his diminutive size, the Maltese seems to be without fear. His trust and affectionate responsiveness are very appealing. He is among the gentlest mannered of all little dogs, yet he is lively and playful as well as vigorous.

Approved March 10, 1964


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

> Hi everyone,
> I met a lady at the vet with a Maltese -5 months old-. Her Maltese was bigger in size than Snowy. I spoke to her and asked her if her puppy was mixed with another breed, but she told me that she was a pure Maltese. She also said that there are two sizes of Maltese -big size and a small size- Is that true?[/B]


If there is "Westie" or any other breed in a Maltese they are not purebred. For instance--a Westie is a terrier. The Maltese breed is not related to terriers anywhere in their linage. They are classified as in the Bichon line--way, way, way back somewhere. That means their ancestors came from the same branch of the dog tree as the Bichon Frise, Havanese and Coton de Tular. A long time ago some people refer to Maltese, as Maltese Terriers. Thats before we knew how to do DNA testing I guess.


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## izzysmom (Nov 6, 2005)

There are a pair of 19 pound "maltese" around here - yes, that is correct, 19 pounds. The owner, without blinking, informed me that they are "purebred" maltese and I didn't want to be rude and disabuse him of that idea. I mean these dogs were huge - I noticed them b/c they were hanging out the window of his jeep at the gas station, and their faces looked so similar to the maltese that I asked the driver what kind of dogs they were. In fact I have noticed several VERY LARGE maltese around here. Even my doggy daycare lady (who is a "dog person") asked if Izzy was a "mini" b/c all the maltese she had seen around Ithaca were over 10 pounds....
















I have come to the conclusion that there are irresponsible breeders mixing Westies, Bichons and Maltese and then passing the tiny puppies off as Maltese. It's so mean, b/c the buyers are obviously not that well educated about maltese, and then end up with these (relatively) enormous dogs. Further, after dropping a lot of money on their "maltese" pup, they don't want to be told by snotty me (with my 4-pounder) that their dog is not purebred. So, I bite my tongue and move on. I'm not sure what else I can do...


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> Hi everyone,
> I met a lady at the vet with a maltese -5 months old-. Her maltese was bigger in size than Snowy. I spoke to her and asked her if her puppy was mixed with another breed, but she told me that she was a pure maltese. She also said that there are two sizes of maltese -big size and a small size- Is that true?[/B]


Check out the poll or survey I have running now...about sizes of doggies here. I was told by one breeder and one Vet that... any Maltese that is larger then about 8 pounds or so, most likely in their past has something else in their blood... BF, Poodle, Westie, blah blah. The Vet told me that the "mix" could have been anywhere from 2 generations to 10 generations back. Who REALLY knows?

I see it this way, the "Standard" was set, nothing we can do to change it. So if you are happy with your doggie, GREAT! Our dogs are just over 4 pounds and we hear all the time, upon meeting another small dog owner, "oh you must have teacups"... err no, we have Maltese! hehehehe







However my Bella Mia's little bit of a "wave" makes me wonder about her. Everything else about her sure is Maltese.

enJOY!
Melanie


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

Just like humans - they come bigger or smaller. No .. they will never be 100 lbs but they can be over 10 lbs and maybe even over 20!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> There are a pair of 19 pound "maltese" around here - yes, that is correct, 19 pounds. The owner, without blinking, informed me that they are "purebred" maltese and I didn't want to be rude and disabuse him of that idea. I mean these dogs were huge - I noticed them b/c they were hanging out the window of his jeep at the gas station, and their faces looked so similar to the maltese that I asked the driver what kind of dogs they were. In fact I have noticed several VERY LARGE maltese around here. Even my doggy daycare lady (who is a "dog person") asked if Izzy was a "mini" b/c all the maltese she had seen around Ithaca were over 10 pounds....
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You are absolutely right. Unscruplulous breeders mix Bichon and Westie in so they get larger females for breeding. Larger females mean more puppies, less complicated pregancies and deliveries, in other words, more money.

We have a member here who got a puppy from what she later found out to be a puppy mill. The puppy grew to be 12 pounds and had a curly coat. Her papers were later revoked by the AKC because it turned out she was mixed with Bichon.

Papers really don't mean much, especially if they are from any other registry than the AKC. At least the AKC is doing DNA testing now. 

The AKC has now started requiring DNA testing for breeding dogs and puppies, which increases the costs to the miller dramatically, and vastly increases the chances of them getting caught for their dirty dealings and losing AKC privileges. Does this deter the millers? Not really. They just turn to different registries, like the Continental Kennel Club (CKC), America’s Pet Registry (APR), and others. Purebred papers from these sources are not worth the paper they’re printed on. Millers don’t even have to prove they own the dogs they bred, or that they are the breed they claim. These registries will even register mixed breeds, like cock-a-poos!  

From http://www.dachshund.org/puppymills.html

The "alternative" registries are definately "buyer beware" IMO. So people really do think they have a purebred Maltese because they have a piece of paper to prove it, but can't understand why he is so big!

Here are a couple other good articles to read:

http://www.dfwdachshund.com/rescue/registries.shtml

http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/buying/common/papers.html


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## Gemma (Jan 19, 2006)

Sparkey is a giant one







he is 11 lbs and so proud of it too







as far as I know he is purebred. His parents are in the 5 or 6 pound range and his new sisters that were born last September are very small too and have the same mom and dad. so I don't know. once a while a big one comes out like sparkey and I guess if he ever have kids another big one will come out but I don't think that means he is not a pure Maltese !! 

I think if breeders are trying to make them smaller and smaller it is playing with nature! although dogs these days are almost man made anyway. it's scary


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## Skippy4Us (Feb 20, 2006)

I didn't know that about Europe's size standard. Skippy was born in Budapest,Hungary..maybe this explains why he's over 8 lbs?



> Shrek is a large Maltese coming from average size parents. He is AKC registered. I think it's possible that there may have been a different ancestor out there (Westie, perhaps), but he has a Maltese coat, looks, and personality. Quite a few purebred Maltese are actually larger than the US Breed Standard (the weight and size standard is higher in Europe).[/B]


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## DJtheDJ (Dec 2, 2004)

I rescued a Maltese or at least that's what his papers say but I was sceptical because he weighed 13 lbs. His name was Cotton so I thought that maybe he was a Cotton Du Tulear. I contacted several experts but no one could tell me if my dog was a Maltese or a Cotton Du Tulear. To me they look identical and the description of each is almost identical except the average weight of a Cotton is 10-15 lbs. The Cotton Du Tulear can have tan patches of hair or they can be pure white. They have the same temperament but are rarer than a Maltese which makes them very valuable and as such, they are much more expensive to obtain from a breeder. One thing I found in the Cotton description is that the very tip of the tail, the last inch, curls back on itself, it makes a U turn at the very end. My dog has this curl at the tip of his tail. Do small Maltese have this U turn at the tip of the tail as well? Can anyone shed any light on how to tell whether my dog is a Maltese or a Cotton Du Tulear? It seems to be a real mystery and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Don


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> I rescued a Maltese or at least that's what his papers say but I was sceptical because he weighed 13 lbs. His name was Cotton so I thought that maybe he was a Cotton Du Tulear. I[/B]


I am guessing after adulthood it may be hard to distinguish but alot of cotton's still have color as they grow, size alone will not distinguish them but may be a determining factor, many purebred Malts reach 8,10,12, even 16+ pounds, from what I know cottons may even be decendant / mix of Maltese that is often found in Canada but this is based on what i ahve read in the past and isnt based on fact at all


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> I rescued a Maltese or at least that's what his papers say but I was sceptical because he weighed 13 lbs. His name was Cotton so I thought that maybe he was a Cotton Du Tulear. I contacted several experts but no one could tell me if my dog was a Maltese or a Cotton Du Tulear. To me they look identical and the description of each is almost identical except the average weight of a Cotton is 10-15 lbs. The Cotton Du Tulear can have tan patches of hair or they can be pure white. They have the same temperament but are rarer than a Maltese which makes them very valuable and as such, they are much more expensive to obtain from a breeder. One thing I found in the Cotton description is that the very tip of the tail, the last inch, curls back on itself, it makes a U turn at the very end. My dog has this curl at the tip of his tail. Do small Maltese have this U turn at the tip of the tail as well? Can anyone shed any light on how to tell whether my dog is a Maltese or a Cotton Du Tulear? It seems to be a real mystery and any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Don[/B]


Don, you may want to start a thread on this so your question won't get lost in this thread ... it is a very interesting question....


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## Littlemans Mom (Apr 6, 2005)

I agree they do come in all sizes and that makes them NO less a Maltese. I am also tired of hearing people ask me what kind of dog is that... is that a Maltese?? Oh, he must be a teacup he is so tiny







So he is on the other end of the Maltese standard of the scale, but there is no such thing as a teacup anything







He didn't come from a breeder that tried to breed smaller Maltese either, he just ended up a little guy...our littleman







While I am venting......







I also hate it when people want to know why he looks so different than other Maltese they have seen, his hair is so much longer







OK, so they really don't know anything about them, I cut them some slack.......but it does get old if you get my drift







Bottom line is they are our babies and we love them with all our hearts and that is what counts to them


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

> besides: who in their right mind would call a 10lbs dog big?????
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I know!!!! I just love it when people tell me that my 7 lb dog is big!!! I kindly inform them that he is the size of a newborn baby... Also, I have noticed that people who think Miko is big often tend to be overweight themselves. I seriously have to bite my lip to prevent myself from making nasty comments about their own weight!!!


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> I agree they do come in all sizes and that makes them NO less a Maltese. I am also tired of hearing people ask me what kind of dog is that... is that a Maltese?? Oh, he must be a teacup he is so tiny
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That is a shame! 

We get just the opposite... people question my daughter about her doggie Sir Micro, coz she keeps him short. Almost everyone says, "oh I have never seen a real Maltese with such short hair." We then know, they don't see many REAL Maltese. hehehehehe Also the other thing we hear like you, "oh that must be a teacup," we also say, "NO he IS a Maltese." Don't you just love those that feel the need to question you so much? NOT!

enJOY!
Melanie


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## izzysmom (Nov 6, 2005)

--


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

> honestly i think walking up to a stranger and questioning the bloodline of their dog is simply rude![/B]


Well, I wasn't being rude to the lady or something -she was so nice to me. She didn't get mad or anything, and didn't mind answering my question- 
Snowy is my first maltese, and I am just learning about this breed. There is a lot that I dont know -which i am trying to learn by asking questions to people who owns maltese, and thats what I did -asked her, then asked you guys. 
I believe that it is "stupid" not to ask when you don't know. How will you learn if you didn't ask, search and talk to different poeple? This is one of the reasons that made me join this site; to learn more about maltese from the members here. 
I already leaned alot from what others said. Now I know that they do come in different sizes which means that I wouldn't ask the same question about sizes because I already know the answer.

Another thing,
when I asked that question, I didn't mean to hurt or upset anyone. I didn't even mean to compare whose maltese is the best in size. All I needed was to know and add to my knowledge about my dog's breed.



If this was the way that people ansers your questions here -giving you thses kind of comments-, then this is not the right place for me to learn


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## Littlemans Mom (Apr 6, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=168431
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Oh Katkoota, I didn't mean for you to think I thought your question was "stupid". I'm sorry if that is how I came across







You are right , the only way to know is by asking questions and it is never wrong to ask them. What I was talking about, was people who have come up to me that really were not asking a question as much as making a comment. They thought they knew all about Maltese and they really didn't, just as I am still learning, thats why I love being here







Please keep asking questions, that is how we all learn from one another, again I didn't mean to make you feel bad about asking a question


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

> Oh Katkoota, I didn't mean for you to think I thought your question was "stupid". I'm sorry if that is how I came across
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I didn't mean you, Littlemans Mom, although I know that my question made few people here mad -didn't mean to make them get mad or something- but what really made me sad is the comment which was said about me, and other people who asked the same question 
Me and these people who asked this question are "rude"







I admit that I am not an expert at all about maltese -i hope that one day, I will be-.
but, I am for sure not a rude person, and not a kind of one who enjoys upsetting anyone.
Sorry, but I don't want my questions to hurt anyone here.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Whoa... did I miss something? This thread seems very congenial to me.


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=169510
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I wish you didn't feel so slighted. Honestly you will find some of the most kind and loving people on the world wide web HERE. As far as I know, this site was created in part just for questions, and just about everyone here has one at some time or another, on any given topic.

Think about this, you can tell when someone  an honest question. Example would be "what type of dog is that? I have never seen one like that." or "That isn't a Maltese, is it? I have never seen one like that before." Can you see the differance? Perhaps those arn't a wide enough example, but this is lacking the tone of voice or reflection in speech. The first ? implies lack of knowledge that is a TRUE question. The second ? sounds like a challange, and I think that is what so many Maltese dogs hear from time to time. Someone questioning their doggies.

Lack of knowledge is not a crime, the crime would be, to NOT seek the knowledge you wish to have.

With as many posts as you got to this thread... your post is a GREAT one. Please rethink that anyone wanted to hurt your feelings. We want you here learning and asking anything you wish to.









enJOY!
Melanie


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

I can see how katkoota took that statement. It may not have been meant that way, but I can understand how she read it.

There have been times when people ask if my “puppy” was a malti-poo becuase “he looks just like Jessica Simpson’s dog”, or ask if he’s a teacup. That doesn’t bother me. I gladly and proudly educate them.







However....I do NOT appreciate people TELLING me that my dog is a teacup, (I was told that any dog under 5 pounds is categorized as a teacup, and I should educate myself LOL!) or that Massimo can NOT be a Maltese because he doesn’t have long hair, or when people argue with me and tell me that their cousin’s brother’s friend’s aunt has a dog that looks EXACTLY like Massimo and she is half Poodle and half Shih-Tzu so Massimo MUST be that. Do not tell me what my dog is. If people genuinely ask a question it wouldn’t bother me at all, in fact, I LOVE to talk about Masismo LOL! But to argue with me about my dog? That’s quite annoying. 

And katkoota, to get back to your original question...Maltese come in all shapes and sizes. They all are beautiful.


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> I can see how katkoota took that statement. It may not have been meant that way, but I can understand how she read it.
> 
> There have been times when people ask if my "puppy" was a malti-poo becuase "he looks just like Jessica Simpson's dog", or ask if he's a teacup. That doesn't bother me. I gladly and proudly educate them.
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AMEN to that!!!! I must be running into the same people you are!!! hehehehehee 

enJOY!
Melanie


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## Harley & Dakotas Mum (Jun 11, 2005)

I also believe that the Maltese breed come in all shapes & sizes - for me, Harley is my companion & best little buddy, I don't know enough about it to be inclined to breed or show dogs, so for me, he's just my mate & I don't care what size he is! - Apart from measuring him for clothing that is! LOL!

My thoughts on this are that yes, they do turn out to be different sizes & some even look a bit different - I think thats a good thing! Just look at this years calendar - bottom line is they are all totally adorable, & unless you were interested in competing in shows - does it really matter what size they are?


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## hillary&lola (Apr 4, 2006)

lola is 7 1/2 lbs which is perfect to me. not too big, not too small! i love every size maltese, personally i am more concerned about them having a pretty face then how big they are! this "teacup" puppy craze is so silly, i am over it!


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## dogloverx3 (Apr 14, 2006)

Yes , SIZE doesn't matter . Everyone looks at my 3lb Princess Charlotte - and tells me I'm lucky to have such a small dog . I think I am lucky that she is happy and healthy not small . My Lhasa weighs 20 lb's - I love his big , boofy sturdy body . My shih tzu weighs 8lb's . Small , medium , large - I have every size covered and consider them all PERFECT !!! Sarah


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

<span style="font-family:tempus sans itc">Cooper was overweight at 8lbs (his normal weight is 7lbs).....the reason I know he was overweight and not just BIG is because he has 2 fat rolls, one by his neck and one by his tail. Well, since getting Gracie, he's now 10lbs







. From eating her puppy food. He now has 2 fat rolls by his tail. Gracie is now on adult food, so I'm hoping he starts dropping the weight.

Gracie is 10.5 months old and 5lbs....I wouldn't mind in the least if she got bigger, but I dont think she'll ever get over 6lbs....shes very tiny. Small face, small boned and a hyper-head.....always on the go.</span>


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