# 10yo girl not feeling well- symptoms



## jackstraw

Hi,

3 weeks ago, we replaced the carpet w/ hardwood floors in our house. We've got some temporary (took from bathrooms) rugs in the den, office and bedroom so that our dogs don't hurt themselves running.

One afternoon, 2 weeks ago our Bess- 10 yr old Maltese- started showing symptoms of pain:


Shaking
Arched back
Whimpering and not being herself
Constant paw licking (actually has been going on for 5 weeks- before new floors)
Wouldn't sit on her butt like she does usually
Wouldn't put pressure on her front leg
I took her to the vet and they felt her spine and tested her flexibility and couldn't figure out what was up.

Her breath seems worse too- if that could actually happen. Her breath has been brutal for the last 2 years. I asked the vet what we could do, and she said that regular teeth cleanings is about all you can do.

She was prescribed Prednisone and a pain killer. We gave her the Prednisone as directed, but only gave her a pain killer 1 or 2 times.

Everything seemed fine until this afternoon when she showed the symptoms above again.

She cried and seems like she can't sit down.

We're concerned that this maybe something else than a bone.

Any ideas????


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## Sandcastles

I, personally, would take her to the Emergency Clinic straight away.


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## mary-anderson

I would have xrays done right away. As for her breath, I adopted a nine year old who has bad teeth and at the time bad breath. I started using Leba III. Prior to having her teeth clean her breath cleared up.


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## silverhaven

Wish I could help. My only thoughts were possible arthritis/slipped disk. Pancreatitis (that was my bichons problem when she was stiff and arching her back) vet initially thought bad back. The floor cleaner used?? allergies? 

Sorry those are my only guesses. I think a repeat visit to vet is in order though. I don't see any point in giving pain meds if you don't know what the pain is.


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## jackstraw

Silverhaven- the vet too wondered if it was a slipped disc and checked each vertebrae (with her hands) and concluded it wasn't that.


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## Nikki's Mom

If the vet does not know what is wrong, why are they giving Prednisone to suppress the immune system? That doesn't make sense to me. If it were my dog, I would take her to an internist and get some x rays asap. Bad breath is often a symptom of digestion issues. The other symptoms certainly point to pain, and if it were me, I'd find out what is causing it asap. Masking the symptoms is a temporary fix.


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## Snowbody

I would get another opinion too. If there's that much pain and at that age you want to get things taken care of ASAP. Any chance of anal gland problems with the non-sitting issue?


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## michellerobison

Pancreas maybe,kidney stone? I hope they find out what's wrong quickly,poor little one. Those golden years can be tough,we want them to be as gold as they can be.
Keep us posted!


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## silverhaven

jackstraw said:


> Silverhaven- the vet too wondered if it was a slipped disc and checked each vertebrae (with her hands) and concluded it wasn't that.


Then I would be concerned about pancreatitis  the emergency vet thought back problems and did the exact same thing, then she was ok for a couple of weeks then the same happened again. Bloodwork said pancreas. That would prob. explain bad breath due to tummy issues too. That is an emergency situation, so I would def. go back to a vet. My Sophie got it, and got over it on three occasions, on the worst she had to go in for iv fluids. Could your dog have eaten anything it shouldn't, particularly like raisins or something? or something very fatty?

Anyway I would just go back to a vet. More investigation is needed.


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## michellerobison

When they x-rayed Amber to check for bladder stones ,it showed she was getting arthritis in her spine.just starting but it was coming. If there's more than one issue going on,it'll show.

When Amy had pancreatitis,she'd walk hunched too. They gave her meds to kickstart the pancreas and it worked. She had to take them a couple times,but it gave her pancreas ,just the right noodge,it worked for a long time,until she got to be 15,then it was just too much for her...

10 is still young enough for it to work so hold hope!
Hugs,Michelle


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## jackstraw

Thanks guys- we're taking her to the vet tomorrow morning and asking about pancreatitis & kidneys.


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## KAG

Aww, I pray it all goes well for you and your beauty Bess.
xoxoxoxoxoxo


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## Cosy

I'd have bloodwork done. Did the vet check her anal glands?


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## uniquelovdolce

dont know what could be wrong , but hope the vet finds out and that she can get better soon !


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## Bailey&Me

Hope her vet visit goes well this morning!


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## Aarianne

Let us know how it goes! It still sounds to me like a worsening situation with a herniated disc as that would explain all of the symptoms (except for the bad breath, which could very well be unrelated). We get herniated discs a fair bit in my family (usually involving great pain, sometimes a numb foot, and sometimes requiring surgery). Perhaps she injured herself further when the new floors were installed by jumping off furniture like normal but landing harder than she's used to?

As others pointed out, there could be a myriad of other reasons for her symptoms. However, a herniated disc covers all of her symptoms and I'm guessing it's more difficult to diagnose in a dog since she cannot answer the vet's questions and MRIs are probably not feasible. I do know that x-rays often provide inconclusive results for this purpose.

And I'm just guessing, but perhaps prednisone was prescribed due to the likelihood of inflammation from an injury or herniated disc. It just seems like a reasonable medication given the circumstances as it does have anti-inflammatory properties.

Poor baby... hope you get some answers today and I hope she's still eating well despite the pain.


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## Snowbody

Hoping to hear what the vet had to say.


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## jackstraw

Sorry for the delay, here's what the vet said-



They took an xray and couldn't see any disc/spine issues. But then again the Dr said she was moving a lot which makes reading the xray harder.
After blood work, vet said 2 liver enzymes were elevated, but he said this could be due to the Prednisone. He also said her levels were high the last time they checked in 2009.
Regarding her breath- he said "her gums are very, very inflamed" and she has gingivitis. We just had her teeth cleaned in Feb 2010. He thinks this is a separate issue.
He did notice that when he checked her flexibility that she whelped when he moved her shoulders. He said that the shoulder joints may be the problem.
He gave her a shot of Convenia (antibiotic) and prescribed Tramadol (pain).
The vet couldn't pinpoint what is wrong. She's still not feeling well this morning. She likes to crawl under the bed when she's not feeling well and last night she did the same. The problem is- she couldn't get out under from the bed and yelped when we pulled her out.

Poor girl hasn't eaten breakfast today... and she's an eater. I mean an eater. 

The vet said for us to call back in 48hrs if she's not feeling any better. I asked them what the next step is if she's no better. He can refer her to a specialist who can run some tests and even an MRI... but we'll cross that bridge when we have to.


Thanks for all the suggestions and advice.


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## dwerten

so sorry  poor thing

I would see an orthopedic to get really good xrays and is part of a specialty hospital with an internal medicine specialist and neurologist so they can all work together to get to the bottom of this. 

this seems more spinal to me especially with the leg being affected - could be top part of spine affected since front leg. 

If it were pancreatitis your dog would be vomitting mostly and tossing and turning and in pain as well but I did not see that you said any vomitting or diarrhea going on. 

Not wanting to sit down could be anal glands so if they are not swollen on both sides of anus probably not that 

The specialists sometimes have better xray machines that are digital so did you get your xrays on a cd if not then it was probably the older xray which is still good just not as good as digital which sees things better on a small dog. 

If it was kidney the bun and creatinine would be off on blood work in most cases or show up in urine so did they do a urinalysis?

Liver enzymes can definitely be off with medication so if just sligthly high probably not that 

I hope your baby is feeling better soon and you can get to the bottom of it 

here is some info on back pain

Neck and Back Pain in Dogs

your vet gave tramadol with steroid bc tramadol is for pain relief but does not have an anti-inflammatory and gave steroids for anti-inflammatory and those two are safe to be given together. I was concerned until your last post of vet mixing nsaid with steroid so glad it was tramadol. Sounds like you have a good vet since they did the tramadol with steroids but since your dog is still having pain with this I would do further investigation as this should be controlling the pain  You can mix nsaid and tramadol for extra pain relief but many vets try to avoid nsaids if they can which sounds like your vet did this. Nsaids should not be given to dogs with ibd or digestive issues or dogs on steroids so does your dog have digestive issues?

when things are not picked up on blood work it is usually orthopedic or neurological related as most other things will come out in the blood work.

sorry I keep thinking of things - you said your vet said the liver enzymes were elevated on prior blood work - was your dog on meds then and was your dog bile acid tested for this? I doubt it is of concern due to age but this could be another reason vet did not prescribe nsaid due to liver values being off as vets do not usually like to give nsaids to dogs with liver issues as that drug affects the liver and kidneys and dogs on nsaids have to be monitored closely if given long term to make sure it does not affect the liver and kidneys.


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## Nikki's Mom

I recommend a specialist in orth. or an internist. ASAP.


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## dwerten

Nikki's Mom said:


> I recommend a specialist in orth. or an internist. ASAP.


yeah I am in agreement but also neuro as well as they can all three work together to figure out quickly what is going on so best to be at a specialty hospital. 

I always think when it does not get resolved quickly with a vet then a specialist is in order for next exam


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## silverhaven

Oh! your poor baby  I hope she feels better soon, and that they figure out what the problem is. You feel so helpless when they are like that.

My bichon did not vomit or have any other symptoms except the shivering and arching, obvious pain, especially when picked up or moved, but the elevated levels in her blood convinced the vet it was pancreatitis 

Don't you just wish they could talk? Does sound like more investigation is going to be needed.


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## dwerten

silverhaven said:


> Oh! your poor baby  I hope she feels better soon, and that they figure out what the problem is. You feel so helpless when they are like that.
> 
> My bichon did not vomit or have any other symptoms except the shivering and arching, obvious pain, especially when picked up or moved, but the elevated levels in her blood convinced the vet it was pancreatitis
> 
> Don't you just wish they could talk? Does sound like more investigation is going to be needed.


usually the amylase and lipase are elevated if pancreas is affected but cpli is the most accurate test for this. Sounds like your little one had a mild case and they caught it fast as usually they are vomitting alot over and over with that. Amylase and Lipase are not always accurate and why they do the cpli but not all vets have inhouse snap cpli test and it takes a couple days to come back when sent out to lab so if amylase and lipase are elevated they tend to treat for it anyway. Pancreatitis is very painful - my guy stuck his butt in air and would toss and turn and could not get comfortable - he never had diarrhea only vomitted over and over and over  so sad it is the worst thing ever and you feel so helpless.


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## donnad

I hope you get to the bottom of what is making your baby not feel well and she feels better soon.


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## allheart

Oh saying prayers for your little one.


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## jackstraw

Just thought I'd update everyone...

She's not putting any weight on her right front leg. She's limping when she gets up (rarely). I took her out to potty and she peed while favoring her left arm.

I just gave her another Tramadol. 

I've felt her arm, gently squeezed it to see how she reacts. She doesn't pull away. You'd think if he hurt her leg, that touching it would make her cry/whimper.

Could it be some sort of pinched nerve???


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## Aarianne

She sounds worse, since your initial vet visit, no? I would arrange for the appointment to see a specialist now, if possible... it could always be cancelled if she does suddenly start to recover in the next 48 hours with rest. It sounds like she's suffering a lot. On the other hand of course, I'm sure it's not helping every time she is taken for a car ride and bounced around... but it doesn't sound like it's going away on its own.

I still think it's likely to be a herniated disc (or possibly more than one) causing nerve inflammation. As you indicated issues with a front paw, if a herniated disc is the culprit, it's likely located in the neck or shoulder. When the vet manipulated her shoulder and she yelped, it may have pinched/inflamed the nerve further. (I'm not suggesting s/he did anything wrong--it's hard to diagnose it without knowing what her range of motions is and what hurts her. If only dogs could speak!) That's especially likely now that she's not eating--it could be a sign that she's either in severe pain or it's too painful to bend her neck down to eat.

That link someone posted above is very good and puts it all in perspective. Here's some info specifically on herniated discs in dogs. I think you should read it so you know what you're possibly dealing with (all signs still point to this as the most likely problem): 

Intervertebral Disk (Ruptured Disk) Disease in Dogs

And read these 2 pages... it sounds a lot like your story, except hers improved quickly on prednisone:
Herniated disc in dogs: Symptoms and treatment - by Susan Hicks - Helium

My dad had a myelogram last time he had a herniated disc too. I believe it's the one where they inject you with a dye and do a scan. (I think I had it twice as a child. I had lots of tests! Long story though.)

Hope that helps.


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## Nikki's Mom

In all honesty, all anyone here can do is guess. Again, I really hope you take her to see a specialist.


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## Aarianne

doh, I'm at work, so I'm slowwwww to get a post typed...

Yes, it sounds like a pinched nerve (likely due to disc herniation). Her leg may be numb, in pain, weak, burning, or tingling. She may feel no change when you touch or squeeze it but if you were to pull or force her weight onto it would hurt tremendously. (Don't do either... it could damage her more. Leave it to the vets to do what they must to diagnose and leave it at that. Try to let her be as much as possible at home and let her decide how to move if you can.) 

It sounds like it's basically the same as sciatica in humans. The cause is just a bit different since sciatica usually originates from disc herniation in the lower back. In dogs, they take the impact of landing from a jump in their shoulders, so they can get sciatica in a front leg if a nerve gets pinched in the neck or shoulder area. It may not be injury based so much either... the vertebrae may be getting weak with age or something. Or I may be completely wrong!

Yep, what Nikki's Mom said... I'm only guessing, and no vet. I just know about this one specific problem (which may or may not be what's wrong with her) due to some of my family having slightly deformed, whorled vertebrae that make us prone to this.


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## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> Just thought I'd update everyone...
> 
> She's not putting any weight on her right front leg. She's limping when she gets up (rarely). I took her out to potty and she peed while favoring her left arm.
> 
> I just gave her another Tramadol.
> 
> I've felt her arm, gently squeezed it to see how she reacts. She doesn't pull away. You'd think if he hurt her leg, that touching it would make her cry/whimper.
> 
> Could it be some sort of pinched nerve???


i agree with the others I would get her in as usually a sprain and things like that resolve pretty quickly. 

They could xray leg , neck and spine and see but i would go to a specialty place at this point since she is not eating that is not good and dogs usually do not show pain so when they do it is pretty bad and especiallly if pain meds are not helping. 

I am always nervous when pain meds do not help with pain as then I start thinking neurological as usually pain meds will help with orthopedic stuff but with neurological pain meds do not help but higher doses of steroids to bring inflammation down help so honestly this is not something I would mess with further I would really get her in to a specialty hospital that has neuro, orthopedic, and internal medicine. My gut is this is ortho or neuro issue though not internal medicine but i could be wrong as not a vet. 

Mine have hurt their paws and lifted leg and limped and i rested for a couple days and it was ok but they never stopped eating. 

If you are noticing any neck pain that is not good in this breed and can be very serious so I just do not feel comfortable telling you to rest and wait 

this is the thing that always worries me in this breed and yorkie breed  It may be way off but when i hear back pain it scares me as many times it is misdiagnosed as disc issues as Lola on here was at first but hers was back legs but it can also happen to front legs when neck is affected as it can affect top of spine or bottom of spine and symptoms are different for each

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/granulomatous-meningoencephalomyelitis-gme/page1.aspx


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## michellerobison

Just checking in to see how she's doing. Poor sweetie. Keeping her in my thoughts.


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## dwerten

another thing to rule out with vet or specialist is lyme disease as leg issues can happen with that as well - did vet rule this out?

just trying to give you everything i can think of with leg issues 

we do not have tick issues here so not sure if you have it in your area


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## jackstraw

Thanks everyone! 

She started to pick up a little bit from 5-8pm... even got her to eat and she's been drinking more too. That said, she seemed to regress a little bit tonight.

One thing we noticed is she's walking around the house. We try to confine her, but she keeps walking around... almost kinda strange-like- For example, she kept walking around the coffee table.

Tomorrow morning we're taking her back to the vet.


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## maltimom4

Hi,
What your baby is going through sounds very similar to the symptoms my Bubba has experienced. This past July, he wakes up one morning and comes walking out looking like a raccoon. His back was all humped up and his head hanging low, I mean_ low_, tail down. He couldn't seem to find a comfortable position to sit or lay. He would lay his head nose down, but not flat on his chin, as normal. Obviously, something was very wrong. (of course we were packing the car for vacation, never fails. :smpullhair When he wasn't walking, he would hold his front leg up and kind of out, like kind of straight. Off to the vet we go. We finally determined a pinched nerve in his neck. The lifting of the leg relieves the pressure on the nerve. My vet said this is about the most painful injury a dog can have. I believe it. He was miserable! He was put on total rest and confinement, pain meds, and prednisone. He recovered and does real well until he decides to make a flying leap off the back of the couch. Every time I say 'Bubs, your gonna feel that tomorrow!' And he does. But not to the extent of the first injury. It's a slow heal. We're still working on teaching him not to jump. We've made progress, but sometimes my nutty Bubba just has to jump.
It sounds to me like this very well could be what you are dealing with. It's serious, but treatable. So that's a good thing.
Hope i made some sense and maybe helped. Good luck with your sweetie. I'm thinking about her.


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## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> Thanks everyone!
> 
> She started to pick up a little bit from 5-8pm... even got her to eat and she's been drinking more too. That said, she seemed to regress a little bit tonight.
> 
> One thing we noticed is she's walking around the house. We try to confine her, but she keeps walking around... almost kinda strange-like- For example, she kept walking around the coffee table.
> 
> Tomorrow morning we're taking her back to the vet.


please do take her in just to be safe- so what you are describing is agitation as she cannot get comfortable and circling sounds to me if going around a coffee table 

The tramadol is an opiate (?) so it can make their breathing more rapid but when dee dee took it she did not act that way just faster breathing and same with demi. 

I would just rather you be safe as if you are noticing things trust your gut as you know her better than any of us all we can do is give info on what we have seen in the breed from our experiences and what we have seen from other pet owners on our dog groups. 

I hope she feels better soon as i know it is probably very stressful on you as well not knowing what is wrong.


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## jackstraw

Update-

Called the vet this morning and gave update. Dr said for me to come in and pick up some Metacam and see how the next 24-36 hrs go.

If she's not doing better, then we come in and see if we can get a better xray. He said another option would be to send her to a specialist for an MRI. Then we're getting into a whole other issue which is the elephant in the room. 

There's no need to worry about that now. We're just hoping the Metacam and Tremadol will take care of the problem.


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## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> Update-
> 
> Called the vet this morning and gave update. Dr said for me to come in and pick up some Metacam and see how the next 24-36 hrs go.
> 
> If she's not doing better, then we come in and see if we can get a better xray. He said another option would be to send her to a specialist for an MRI. Then we're getting into a whole other issue which is the elephant in the room.
> 
> There's no need to worry about that now. We're just hoping the Metacam and Tremadol will take care of the problem.


what about steroids? ask about this as you NEVER mix nsaid with steroids as both affect the lining of the stomach and can cause alot of problems and since your dog has been taking steroids I would ask about that as there is a clearing out period off steroids then starting nsaid. It is ok to mix nsaid and tramadol but NOT steroid and nsaid so are you giving steroid still? 

I had a really bad experience with my dog who had metacam while on steroids from one dose so I always caution those two being mixed 

also never give steroids or nsaid on empty stomach and I wouldn't with tramadol either but definitely not steroid or nsaid as it can cause ulcers. I always give 1/2 food then med then 1/2 food and that goes for antibiotics too. 

I just really think you should see a specialist to get a good xray as throwing meds at a problem is not always the answer unless you know what the problem really is  JMHO

The circling also is worrying me  as not sure they would circle with a pinched nerve but never have had a dog with this so not sure maybe others can help more but circling can be neurological related

has your dog been vaccinated recently?


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## jackstraw

Hi Dwerten,

She's been off Prednisone since Oct 29. 

I did just get her to eat breakfast- I fed her by hand and she inhaled the entire serving. Hopefully this is a good sign.


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## jackstraw

dwerten said:


> another thing to rule out with vet or specialist is lyme disease as leg issues can happen with that as well - did vet rule this out?
> 
> just trying to give you everything i can think of with leg issues
> 
> we do not have tick issues here so not sure if you have it in your area



The wife just made a comment about lyme disease... she said she just flicked something off her and it made her wonder about Bess.

We googled Lyme disease symptoms in dogs and it's a checklist of her symptoms!

Of course we're calling the vet tomorrow morning, but I thought I'd ask you all since you've been such help...

When vets do blood work, do they look for Lyme automatically??? Or is this a special test?


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## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> The wife just made a comment about lyme disease... she said she just flicked something off her and it made her wonder about Bess.
> 
> We googled Lyme disease symptoms in dogs and it's a checklist of her symptoms!
> 
> Of course we're calling the vet tomorrow morning, but I thought I'd ask you all since you've been such help...
> 
> When vets do blood work, do they look for Lyme automatically??? Or is this a special test?


it is an add on to blood work so it is not usually done as part of blood work but ask vet if it was run. There is that one and infectious disease but not sure if it is one in the same as I have never had experience with this as we do not have deer ticks in this area. Do you have deer ticks there? Do you use flea and tick prevention? 

Usually for lyme they use a strong antibiotic called doxicycline 

I have a friend who is on a yorkie group I am on that just went through this and her dog would not eat and lost weight and tested positive for lyme and had a limp leg. She is on facebook so you could pm her there if you would like. She had a difficult time of it though with the antibiotic as it affected her liver so it was a tough case. First you need to see if this is what is going on so run it by the vet and see if this can be ruled out

How is she feeling today?

that is a great sign she is eating 

here is some info on it - I trust this site as it is written by a vet 

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/lyme-disease/page1.aspx

I will pm my friend to ask what blood test was done to determine her dog had lyme

here is her facebook you can friend her  or send her a message too and ask her questions

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/profile.php?id=510564569

you can always do searches on youtube.com as well for things and sometimes vets do videos for different things that are very educational as well


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## Snowbody

What part of the country are you in? I think that in some states that are infested with lyme disease ticks (like CT, New York State, etc) the testing is much more routine. I know so many people who have had lyme disease and I think a couple of people who have pets who have had it.


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## jackstraw

Update:

Took her to the vet yesterday afternoon. Pretty much they said these types of illnesses are hard to diagnose...but the Dr said when they hurt all over and it's not neurological, it probably may be poly-arthritis. Since I mentioned Lyme, they took blood and sent it to the lab. 

*Here are the meds prescribed:*
- We doubled up the *Metacam*
- Added *Doxycycline *100MG (2x/day)
- Added *Valium *(2-3x/day)for a muscle relaxer. She's tensed up a lot and the yelping seems to come from anticipating being touched. 

They also gave her *fluid therapy* since she was dehydrated.

Last night she was falling over and couldn't walk. We took her out to potty and she would fall over. It was absolutely heart breaking. Usually she sleeps in the bed w/ us, but we're so afraid of her falling off, so we took an old comforter and her bed and let her sleep on the floor beside us. 

About 4am she was just laying there crying, but not moving. Wife took her out to potty and she fell again. Wife was in tears- this has been her dog for 10 yrs, mine for 5. 

We gave her the Metacam at 6am, and the Doxy at 8am w/ her breakfast, and she seemed to feel much better. 

*One note- we feel that the Valium is too much for her and maybe what makes her fall over, so we've decided to hold off on that. *
I'm curious to hear what you all think about this.

We also try to get her to drink more water- she's panting a lot and she hasn't pooped since yesterday morning. The vet said she had a lot in her when they checked her.


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## dwerten

wow this seems to keep getting worse  

the pain meds can constipate them so maybe add a little pumpkin with the food 

That is alot of meds and why the doxy unless confirmed lyme  

I am just not a believer in using meds without having a confirmed diagnosis with mine 

If stopping the valium does not make her better please take her to a specialty hospital and make sure you have copies of all the paperwork from your vet in a file to hand it to them. 

I do not have any experience with valium with my dogs but I am getting concerned this is neuroligical and if neuroligical time is of the essence so if still falling over when stopping the valium please get to specialist.

also antibiotics and nsaids affect the tummy so make sure to give with food and I would split them up so give one with breakfast and one with dinner unless they have to be given more than once a day


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## silverhaven

I am so sorry :crying: you are trying hard to help her, it is heartbreaking when you can't. I hope the vet can get the correct diagnosis. She sounds in a lot of distress.


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## Johita

So sorry that she is still not better. I don't have any advice on the mattter but I commend you for seeking it from everyone here for your wife and pup ut I do agree that perhaps you should take your pup to a specialist. We'll be praying for you guys.


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## jackstraw

Thanks folks- there's never a good time to have your lil one get sick and wonder if this is the end... but I just lost my mom after a 10 yr battle w/ cancer. So the timing is not the best.


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## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> Thanks folks- there's never a good time to have your lil one get sick and wonder if this is the end... but I just lost my mom after a 10 yr battle w/ cancer. So the timing is not the best.


hang in there do not give up  

Sometimes the hardest part is figuring out what exactly is going on which is diagnostics. Sometimes they have symptoms that can be a few different things so just hang in there but I really think a specialty hospital is in order at this point. 

where do you live? Are you near a specialty hospital or a vet college? It sounds like what your vet is stating through what you have written that this is the next step.


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## jackstraw

I live in Charlotte NC. The vet suggested that we take these steps (meds) before we go to a specialist, which we agree. 

Our worry about going to a specialist is that the costs will be more than we can afford. We were told MRIs can be around $1800. As much as we love our girl- this isn't an option.


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## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> I live in Charlotte NC. The vet suggested that we take these steps (meds) before we go to a specialist, which we agree.
> 
> Our worry about going to a specialist is that the costs will be more than we can afford. We were told MRIs can be around $1800. As much as we love our girl- this isn't an option.


completely understand  I hope she is feeling better soon and you are a great dog parent for looking into every possibility to get her better so hang in there 

jmm and dr jaimie on here are in the profession and I see jmm is on here today so maybe she can shed some light on what may be going on as well as she is very helpful


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## jackstraw

This weekend showed no signs of improvement. She can't even walk now. Last night was the point where we could take no more. We thought she had a seizure- but little on that later.

We took her to our vet this morning and they said we need to take her to a specialist. 

Went to the specialist and the Dr diagnosed this as Tetraparesis. The Dr said that all symptoms point to a vertebrae in the neck. But when we said she had a seizure last night, he said that concerns him.

About what we thought was a seizure last night-
She was on the sofa w/ us and suddenly she rolled to her side and started crying. Both front arms were straight, and her right back leg started paddling. The entire time she seemed coherent. No vomiting, urinating, or defecating. Just severe pain and stiffness.

So it's very possible that she did not have a seizure. 

Here's what the Specialist wrote:
---------------
*Diagnosis: Tetraparesis (open etiology)*
*Presenting Problem and History:* Bess has a three week history of progressive tetraparesis. Initially she showed weakness in the right front limb. Radiographs of the spine show no significant abnormalities. Bess may have experienced a seizure or a pain event.
*Physical examination: *(weight 3.6 kg) No significant abnormalities.
*Neurological examination:* Severe tetraparesis. Falls when trying to walk. Absent postural reactions in all four limbs. Increased front limb tone but flexor withdrawal is present. Marked cervical spinal pain.
*Neuroanatomic localization:* C1-CS spinal cord segments
*Diagnostic Testing: None*
*Treatments:*
Give the following medications:
Stop Metacam for at least 48 hours prior to beginning prednisone.
Continue diazepam as directed.
Doxycycline may be continued.

11/8/2010 -Tramadol HCIsomg tablet, 7 tablets
Give 1/4 of a tablet by mouth every 8-12 hours as needed for pain.
Rx #: XXXXXX, By: Doctor, DVM, ACVIM-Neuro

11/8/2010 -Prednisone 2.5mg, 14 Tablet
Give 1 tablet by mouth every 24 hours for 7 days then 1/2 tab every other day.
Rx #: XXXXXX, By: Doctor, DVM, ACVIM-Neuro
Prednisone is a steroid that is given to reduce inflammation or swelling. Side effects of this drug includes increased drinking and urination, and increased appetite. Long term use may cause dry hair coat, weakness, muscle loss, darkening ofthe skin, & distended abdomen. Uncommonly prednisone can cause restlessness, vomiting and diarrhea, and increased
susceptibility to infections.

Please call if Bess develops a loss of appetite, vomiting, or diarrhea. The dose of prednisone may be adjusted based on her response to treatment. Never give a steroid such as prednisone with a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (aspirin, Previcox, Deramaxx, Rimadyl, or Metacam).

*Recommendations:* Bess has weakness in all four limbs (tetraparesis) that is most likely due to a problem related to her spinal cord. Possible causes include a bulging or ruptured intervertebral disk, a spinal tumor, or an infectious/ inflammatory disease. A herniated intervertebral disk is most likely. Due to the severity of Bess' clinical signs and the lack of improvement, additional testing with possible surgery is recommended. This would give her the best chance for recovery.

To make a definitive diagnosis and make additional treatment recommendations, diagnostic imaging (MRI) would be needed. This requires general anesthesia.

The other approach to treatment would be use of anti-inflammatory drugs for possible spinal cord compression (related to a disk or spinal tumor) in combination with confinement. This type of treatment is unlikely to correct the underlying problem such as a herniated intervertebral disk. Bess should be stricly confined for the next 3 weeks. This means that Bess is to be in the cage at all times (including eating and drinking). The only time Bess should be out of the cage is to go outside 4 times a day. Bess should be kept on a short leash while outside.

If at anytime Bess seems to be getting worse, such as having more difficulty walking or a greater degree of pain, please call XXXXXXXX. Also, please do not hesitate to call if you have any questions or concerns.

-------


----------



## jackstraw

So after talking w/ the wife, we are going the Prednisone route for now. Even though there's not a price on our little girl, the doctor quoted $3500 for an MRI and surgery to repair her disk.

We can't use Carecredit (nor would we want to- I've heard many stories about them and just today I read an email about their lawsuit about predatory lending). We've already reduced our household expenses- i.e. dropping premium cable TV, gym memberships, and other financial cuts. We also have a child on the way and worry that we need to have savings built up when the kid comes.

I asked the doctor to give me numbers- 90% success w/ surgery vs less than 50% success w/ meds. We're not giving her the best odds, but it's what we can do.

Last but not least- when we gave her Prednisone 3 weeks ago when she first starting showing signs of limping, after 2 days, she was back to normal. 

Hopefully, this dose of Prednisone will do the job.


----------



## Starsmom

I'm sorry doesn'r really convey what I feel. I hope she gets long term improvement quickly.


----------



## dwerten

could this specialist rule out GME completely as that runs in the breed and the neck area, seizures, paralysis are all related and high doses of pred help this as well as chemo drugs. 

If the xrays showed nothing this is my concern  

Here is a group of people who are very helpful - worth joining to ask questions -maybe it is not this but they may be able to help you 


http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/NewGMEDogs/?yguid=274781681

I have never heard of the other thing posted 

did you see a neurologist or orthopedic? 

I feel so bad for you and her  Please read that link i posted on gme earlier


----------



## dwerten

I do not think they ruled out GME from what they wrote here many times gme gets diagnosed as a disk issue when it is not like Pam's Lola. I will ask pam to come here and hopefully help again 

Bess has weakness in all four limbs (tetraparesis) that is most likely due to a problem related to her spinal cord. Possible causes include a bulging or ruptured intervertebral disk, a spinal tumor, or an infectious/ inflammatory disease. A herniated intervertebral disk is most likely. Due to the severity of Bess' clinical signs and the lack of improvement, additional testing with possible surgery is recommended. This would give her the best chance for recovery.

To make a definitive diagnosis and make additional treatment recommendations, diagnostic imaging (MRI) would be needed. This requires general anesthesia.

 from reading this and knowing it runs in breed and nothing showing on xrays this is my concern. It is treatable so join that group and see if this sounds familiar to them as they have dogs with GME. If it is not this then at least you have been able to rule this out as it does not sound like specialist has ruled this out completely. If neck pain and C1 involved it worries me  as neck pain is a sign of this. 

sorry I could be way off as not a vet but what you are describing I would definitely call specialist and ask is GME ruled out as that is an inflamation of the spinal chord disease. It can happen at any age and it can come on from a reaction to something like vaccines, flea meds, etc - anything can trigger it and there is no known definitive cause.

what happens is the spinal chord gets inflamed thus causing swelling in the brain. Getting the swelling down with high doses of steroids helps the dog and they also use a chemo drug to help with this but they do have to get a firm diagnosis. I so hope others can help you more with this and info to help your baby.


----------



## pammy4501

All that I can add is, if your dog does have GME, you need a neurology consult. You need a spinal tap and MRI for diagnosis. If that is the diagnosis, high dose pred, seizure meds and immunosupressive drugs will be the treatment. It is long (at least 12 months) and costly. Lola was diagnosed a year ago and is currently doing well. I would estimate I have spent 3000 out of pocket and insurance has picked up about 5000. There is no guarantee of survival or overall quality and outcome. But, I love my dog. Sorry if this sounds dismal. The vet field is still learning about GME and treatments are still sometimes largely experimental. But you may be able to save your dog.


----------



## maggieh

I'm sorry for what you and Bess are going through and praying for success with the meds.


----------



## Rocky's Mom

No experience with this, but will say I am very sorry you are going through this with your baby. I hope and pray that you have success with the medication prescribed. HUGS


----------



## michellerobison

OMG 10 isn't old that's for sure. I'm crying to see this. I hope she can benefit from the Pred.

My step son's Rottie is only 9 months old,she had a limp that was progessively getting worse. Then she began to have her back feet slipping out from under her. She was falling over when she'd potty... We suspected hip dyplasia,even at two months. Vet said you can't really diagnose HD until they're about 2 yrs old. Well hers is so bad,they diagnosed it at 9 months.
Seemed like everyday it was getting worse. We were looking at PTS.

Vet said to try glucosamine ,it took about 2 weeks to start to help and by 4 weeks she was like a new dog. Some pain issues,but nothing like she was having...
It'll buy her some time,her hips are really loose...

But it's helping w/ the pain. Luckily it comes in a soft chewie form,so she thinks it's a doggie treat. She's such a sweetie and gives you those big puppy eyes...

You have to do what you can,not an easy decision if they're suffering or you can't afford to do as much as you want to.

Hugs to you and sweet brave girl. Ask about glucosamine,can't hurt I wouldn't think.


----------



## jackstraw

update-

today has been a long day. she's helpless- cant walk, randomly cries/yelps... sounds like tires screeching. it helps to hold her in my lap (i work out of the house), but clients calling all day and trying to work doesn't help the situation. my wife can't take off.

what really bugs me is one response I got from a client- I tried to explain to him that I have a very sick dog-family member- but he didn't get it and I don't have the energy to bring the wrath of fury on him via email.

We're waiting for 3AM tonight/morning to start her on Prednisone. The vet said we have to wait 48 hrs since the last Metacam dose.

So for the last day we've had to sit and do nothing but watch our little girl suffer. We've continued the Valium, Tremodol, and Doxy... 

but can't wait till 3AM


----------



## Snowbody

I just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear that you and Bess are going through this. It must be heart wrenching not to be able to help her when she's this uncomfortable. I hope the meds work and wanted to say you and your wife are terrific trying all you can to help. If there's a point where nothing works, and I really pray that doesn't happen, we will be here for you. Sending prayers for her to get better.


----------



## njdrake

I'm so sorry this is happening and I can only imagine how bad it makes you feel to see her like this. This is heartbreaking. 
I hope the meds. work and things get better soon. Please keep us updated.
:grouphug:


----------



## jackstraw

Thanks- on a positive note (the only one)- I'm amazed how Jack (2 yr old Malt) has behaved. Usually, he wants to play w/ her, but he's left her alone for the most part.

He did walk over to her while she was laying on her side and put his head on hers- like he was trying to comfort her. I about lost it.


----------



## silverhaven

I am so sorry :grouphug: this is heartwrenching.


----------



## Rocky's Mom

I'm so sorry you are having to watch your baby suffer. This is heartbreaking. I do hope she starts feeling better after you give her the predisone...this has to be so hard on you and your wife. :grouphug:


----------



## Maidto2Maltese

Sorry I'm so late in replying but wanted you to know I'm keeping your little one in my prayers that the meds will kick in and give her relief. She's a blessed little one to have you and your wife caring for her and doing all possible in your power to help her. It's obvious she very much loved.


----------



## maggieh

I am praying that today brings relief.


----------



## cyndrae

I am so sorry for you my heart is breaking. I'm am praying for you.


----------



## uniquelovdolce

im so so sorry . i will be praying for bess and ur fam .


----------



## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> update-
> 
> today has been a long day. she's helpless- cant walk, randomly cries/yelps... sounds like tires screeching. it helps to hold her in my lap (i work out of the house), but clients calling all day and trying to work doesn't help the situation. my wife can't take off.
> 
> what really bugs me is one response I got from a client- I tried to explain to him that I have a very sick dog-family member- but he didn't get it and I don't have the energy to bring the wrath of fury on him via email.
> 
> We're waiting for 3AM tonight/morning to start her on Prednisone. The vet said we have to wait 48 hrs since the last Metacam dose.
> 
> So for the last day we've had to sit and do nothing but watch our little girl suffer. We've continued the Valium, Tremodol, and Doxy...
> 
> but can't wait till 3AM


How is she doing? I have been in business meeting out of town and tried to get on yesterday and could not  I am so sorry  Have you started the steroids? Did you join the GME group? 

Thanks so much pam for posting. This just sounds so much like GME as it is very painful due to the inflammation and the steroids bring down the inflammation and not alot of vets know about this disease  The last dog on another group the vet thought it was a sprained neck  He did not make it  Another dog the vet thought it was a brain tumor and i told her to go to gme group and to neurologist and it was gme and her dog is doing good. It can also be misdiagnosed as disc issue like Lola as I think pam went to er and they thought it was disc issue and turned out to be gme. 

I feel so bad for you as when it is something that they cannot figure out quickly it can be costly. 

Did you see a neurologist when you went to specialist? I really think from what you describe a neurologist is who needs to be over seeing this or a specialty hospital. I know funds may be a problem 

www.carecredit.com can help spread the cost out and this is what I have used in past. 

I am praying hard for your little baby

and I am sorry about your client. People just do not understand that do not have pets the love we have for them like people on these groups. I came to these groups when my dog was very sick and I almost lost him as everyone kept telling me he is just a dog put him down but I could not do it. I spent thousands too and 5 years later he is still with me and it was the best investment I ever made as he is such a great little boy. 

We are here for you in whatever you decide and again so sorry you are going through this  Hugs to all involved

more info 

http://www.americanmaltese.org/ama_health_menu.htm

click on neurological


----------



## jackstraw

Hi folks- I've been on the road most of today, but the wife is working from home today.

Update:

Yesterday (especially last night) was really tough. She was in constant pain from 7pm-2am, crying and yelping for the most part.

I gave her the first dose of Prednisone at 11PM last night. We were supposed to wait 48 hrs from the last dose of Metacam, but rolled the dice and cut it short 4 hrs.

Called the vet at 8AM this morning and updated our Dr. We told her that we can't watch and sit hopelessly while our girl is in such pain. The vet said for us to up the dose of Valium from 1/4 of a pill to a 1 pill and call back at 4:30PM today with an update.

Well- I don't know if this is good news or not but here goes:
We haven't given Bess any pain meds or Valium since 6AM. BUT- the wife says *she's been sleeping the ENTIRE day. Maybe 1 or 2 yelps, but that's all.
*
She ate breakfast, she's drinking water, but mainly sleeping.

We're cautiously optimistic that this may be a good sign. It seems she's not in pain. That said, we still can't get her to walk, pee, or poop.

But for now, she's not crying. Next dose of Prednisone is tonight at 11PM.


----------



## Snowbody

jackstraw said:


> Hi folks- I've been on the road most of today, but the wife is working from home today.
> 
> Update:
> 
> Yesterday (especially last night) was really tough. She was in constant pain from 7pm-2am, crying and yelping for the most part.
> 
> I gave her the first dose of Prednisone at 11PM last night. We were supposed to wait 48 hrs from the last dose of Metacam, but rolled the dice and cut it short 4 hrs.
> 
> Called the vet at 8AM this morning and updated our Dr. We told her that we can't watch and sit hopelessly while our girl is in such pain. The vet said for us to up the dose of Valium from 1/4 of a pill to a 1 pill and call back at 4:30PM today with an update.
> 
> Well- I don't know if this is good news or not but here goes:
> We haven't given Bess any pain meds or Valium since 6AM. BUT- the wife says *she's been sleeping the ENTIRE day. Maybe 1 or 2 yelps, but that's all.
> *
> She ate breakfast, she's drinking water, but mainly sleeping.
> 
> We're cautiously optimistic that this may be a good sign. It seems she's not in pain. That said, we still can't get her to walk, pee, or poop.
> 
> But for now, she's not crying. Next dose of Prednisone is tonight at 11PM.


I'm really praying for her. You and your wife must be totally exhausted and so emotionally spent going through all of this with your little girl. I'm happy that she isn't in as much pain and hoping she'll do better. Am a little surprised the doc went from 1/4 pill to one pill. Seems like a big jump but maybe that's what she needed. But she might be out for the count because of it. Wish you had some answers. Thanks for keeping us posted.


----------



## jackstraw

Snowbody said:


> Am a little surprised the doc went from 1/4 pill to one pill. Seems like a big jump but maybe that's what she needed. But she might be out for the count because of it. Wish you had some answers. Thanks for keeping us posted.


Snow- I forgot to say that we gave her 1/4 tab of Valium this morning. She hasn't have a full 1 pill dose yet...

So, she slept all day w/out any pain meds/Valium since early morning.


----------



## MalteseJane

:grouphug::grouphug: so sorry you have to go through this. Hope she will feel better soon.


----------



## Ladysmom

jackstraw said:


> So after talking w/ the wife, we are going the Prednisone route for now. Even though there's not a price on our little girl, the doctor quoted $3500 for an MRI and surgery to repair her disk.
> 
> We can't use Carecredit (nor would we want to- I've heard many stories about them and just today I read an email about their lawsuit about predatory lending). We've already reduced our household expenses- i.e. dropping premium cable TV, gym memberships, and other financial cuts. We also have a child on the way and worry that we need to have savings built up when the kid comes.
> 
> I asked the doctor to give me numbers- 90% success w/ surgery vs less than 50% success w/ meds. We're not giving her the best odds, but it's what we can do.
> 
> Last but not least- when we gave her Prednisone 3 weeks ago when she first starting showing signs of limping, after 2 days, she was back to normal.
> 
> Hopefully, this dose of Prednisone will do the job.


Your description of Bess crying and yelping from constant pain last night broke my heart. Since the vet told you that the odds of prednisone helping her were less than 50%, I hate the thought she will continue to suffer when surgery has a 90% chance of success.

Have you discussed with your vet a timeframe to try the prednisone?

If you and your wife have decided that you can't afford her surgery, have you considered turning her over to a rescue group who would be able to get her the surgery she needs? A 9-10 year old Maltese is not that old. I hope you will consider it for Bess' sake.


----------



## Sandcastles

Ladysmom said:


> Your description of Bess crying and yelping from constant pain last night broke my heart. Since the vet told you that the odds of prednisone helping her were less than 50%, I hate the thought she will continue to suffer when surgery has a 90% chance of success.
> 
> Have you discussed with your vet a timeframe to try the prednisone?
> 
> If you and your wife have decided that you can't afford her surgery, have you considered turning her over to a rescue group who would be able to get her the surgery she needs? A 9-10 year old Maltese is not that old. I hope you will consider it for Bess' sake.


What a compassionate, genuine post - Marj, you really are very caring.


----------



## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> Hi folks- I've been on the road most of today, but the wife is working from home today.
> 
> Update:
> 
> Yesterday (especially last night) was really tough. She was in constant pain from 7pm-2am, crying and yelping for the most part.
> 
> I gave her the first dose of Prednisone at 11PM last night. We were supposed to wait 48 hrs from the last dose of Metacam, but rolled the dice and cut it short 4 hrs.
> 
> Called the vet at 8AM this morning and updated our Dr. We told her that we can't watch and sit hopelessly while our girl is in such pain. The vet said for us to up the dose of Valium from 1/4 of a pill to a 1 pill and call back at 4:30PM today with an update.
> 
> Well- I don't know if this is good news or not but here goes:
> We haven't given Bess any pain meds or Valium since 6AM. BUT- the wife says *she's been sleeping the ENTIRE day. Maybe 1 or 2 yelps, but that's all.*
> 
> She ate breakfast, she's drinking water, but mainly sleeping.
> 
> We're cautiously optimistic that this may be a good sign. It seems she's not in pain. That said, we still can't get her to walk, pee, or poop.
> 
> But for now, she's not crying. Next dose of Prednisone is tonight at 11PM.


The pred is helping take the inflamation down. How much pred are you giving? I would have done the same thing with giving the pred early and glad you did that as well -

How is she doing now?

Are you working with Vet or specialist as it seems you posted the specialist but not sure if orthopedic or neurologist.


----------



## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> So after talking w/ the wife, we are going the Prednisone route for now. Even though there's not a price on our little girl, the doctor quoted $3500 for an MRI and surgery to repair her disk.
> 
> We can't use Carecredit (nor would we want to- I've heard many stories about them and just today I read an email about their lawsuit about predatory lending). We've already reduced our household expenses- i.e. dropping premium cable TV, gym memberships, and other financial cuts. We also have a child on the way and worry that we need to have savings built up when the kid comes.
> 
> I asked the doctor to give me numbers- 90% success w/ surgery vs less than 50% success w/ meds. We're not giving her the best odds, but it's what we can do.
> 
> Last but not least- when we gave her Prednisone 3 weeks ago when she first starting showing signs of limping, after 2 days, she was back to normal.
> 
> Hopefully, this dose of Prednisone will do the job.


I am confused sorry just seeing this post. Did they confirm disc or are they still unsure?

If improving with steroids then that would be due to inflamation decreasing from steroids 

I just feel so bad for you and her 

I have used carecredit.com for years and never paid a dime in interest. I extend out the bill 12 mos depending on the cost but you have to pay off by that date. What happens is the vet pays the interest when you are not paying it during that period so not all vets offer it sadly due to that


----------



## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> This weekend showed no signs of improvement. She can't even walk now. Last night was the point where we could take no more. We thought she had a seizure- but little on that later.
> 
> We took her to our vet this morning and they said we need to take her to a specialist.
> 
> Went to the specialist and the Dr diagnosed this as Tetraparesis. The Dr said that all symptoms point to a vertebrae in the neck. But when we said she had a seizure last night, he said that concerns him.
> 
> About what we thought was a seizure last night-
> She was on the sofa w/ us and suddenly she rolled to her side and started crying. Both front arms were straight, and her right back leg started paddling. The entire time she seemed coherent. No vomiting, urinating, or defecating. Just severe pain and stiffness.
> 
> So it's very possible that she did not have a seizure.
> 
> Here's what the Specialist wrote:
> ---------------
> *Diagnosis: Tetraparesis (open etiology)*
> *Presenting Problem and History:* Bess has a three week history of progressive tetraparesis. Initially she showed weakness in the right front limb. Radiographs of the spine show no significant abnormalities. Bess may have experienced a seizure or a pain event.
> *Physical examination: *(weight 3.6 kg) No significant abnormalities.
> *Neurological examination:* Severe tetraparesis. Falls when trying to walk. Absent postural reactions in all four limbs. Increased front limb tone but flexor withdrawal is present. Marked cervical spinal pain.
> *Neuroanatomic localization:* C1-CS spinal cord segments
> *Diagnostic Testing: None*
> *Treatments:*
> Give the following medications:
> Stop Metacam for at least 48 hours prior to beginning prednisone.
> Continue diazepam as directed.
> Doxycycline may be continued.
> 
> 11/8/2010 -Tramadol HCIsomg tablet, 7 tablets
> Give 1/4 of a tablet by mouth every 8-12 hours as needed for pain.
> Rx #: XXXXXX, By: Doctor, DVM, ACVIM-Neuro
> 
> 11/8/2010 -Prednisone 2.5mg, 14 Tablet
> Give 1 tablet by mouth every 24 hours for 7 days then 1/2 tab every other day.
> Rx #: XXXXXX, By: Doctor, DVM, ACVIM-Neuro
> Prednisone is a steroid that is given to reduce inflammation or swelling. Side effects of this drug includes increased drinking and urination, and increased appetite. Long term use may cause dry hair coat, weakness, muscle loss, darkening ofthe skin, & distended abdomen. Uncommonly prednisone can cause restlessness, vomiting and diarrhea, and increased
> susceptibility to infections.
> 
> Please call if Bess develops a loss of appetite, vomiting, or diarrhea. The dose of prednisone may be adjusted based on her response to treatment. Never give a steroid such as prednisone with a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (aspirin, Previcox, Deramaxx, Rimadyl, or Metacam).
> 
> *Recommendations:* Bess has weakness in all four limbs (tetraparesis) that is most likely due to a problem related to her spinal cord. Possible causes include a bulging or ruptured intervertebral disk, a spinal tumor, or an infectious/ inflammatory disease. A herniated intervertebral disk is most likely. Due to the severity of Bess' clinical signs and the lack of improvement, additional testing with possible surgery is recommended. This would give her the best chance for recovery.
> 
> To make a definitive diagnosis and make additional treatment recommendations, diagnostic imaging (MRI) would be needed. This requires general anesthesia.
> 
> The other approach to treatment would be use of anti-inflammatory drugs for possible spinal cord compression (related to a disk or spinal tumor) in combination with confinement. This type of treatment is unlikely to correct the underlying problem such as a herniated intervertebral disk. Bess should be stricly confined for the next 3 weeks. This means that Bess is to be in the cage at all times (including eating and drinking). The only time Bess should be out of the cage is to go outside 4 times a day. Bess should be kept on a short leash while outside.
> 
> If at anytime Bess seems to be getting worse, such as having more difficulty walking or a greater degree of pain, please call XXXXXXXX. Also, please do not hesitate to call if you have any questions or concerns.
> 
> -------


this diagnosis could be alot of things  see link -- did the lyme test come back negative ?

The tetraparetic dog: The upper motor neuron, the lower motor neuron, and the in-between (Proceedings) - Veterinary Healthcare

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2004&PID=8698&O=Generic


----------



## jackstraw

Hey guys- thanks for the replies.

Some good updates:

After a whole day of sleeping, Bess seems to be in less pain. Her yelping has cut down to about 10% of what it was yesterday. 

She also walked for the first time since Sunday... and most importantly- we took her outside tonight to potty. She walked about 5-6 steps, squatted down, and peed for what seemed for days... I've never been that happy to see a dog pee.

Hopefully things will keep going in this direction!


----------



## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> Hey guys- thanks for the replies.
> 
> Some good updates:
> 
> After a whole day of sleeping, Bess seems to be in less pain. Her yelping has cut down to about 10% of what it was yesterday.
> 
> She also walked for the first time since Sunday... and most importantly- we took her outside tonight to potty. She walked about 5-6 steps, squatted down, and peed for what seemed for days... I've never been that happy to see a dog pee.
> 
> Hopefully things will keep going in this direction!


THIS IS AWESOME NEWS THANKS SOOOOO MUCH - I am so happy there is improvement and steroids are working 

what is the dose of steroids you are giving?


----------



## njdrake

That's great news. This is really heartbreaking but now maybe things will turn around for her. I sincerely hope she continues to improve.


----------



## Snowbody

jackstraw said:


> Hey guys- thanks for the replies.
> 
> Some good updates:
> 
> After a whole day of sleeping, Bess seems to be in less pain. Her yelping has cut down to about 10% of what it was yesterday.
> 
> She also walked for the first time since Sunday... and most importantly- we took her outside tonight to potty. She walked about 5-6 steps, squatted down, and peed for what seemed for days... I've never been that happy to see a dog pee.
> 
> Hopefully things will keep going in this direction!


Good to hear good news! We have our fingers and paws crossed here for you. Hope you get some sleep tonight.:grouphug:


----------



## silverhaven

I am so pleased she is feeling a bit better. I hope she continues to improve :grouphug:


----------



## jackstraw

dwerten said:


> THIS IS AWESOME NEWS THANKS SOOOOO MUCH - I am so happy there is improvement and steroids are working
> 
> what is the dose of steroids you are giving?



Dwert- She's on 2.5mg Prednisone... just gave her the second dose. We're cautiously optimistic, but still tickled pink.


----------



## Matilda's mommy

I just say this thread, my heart breaks for you and for precious Bess, I would like to say a prayer for her.


Heavenly Father, I love you, you have always been there and always will, I praise your Holy name. Lord I lift little Bess to you, Lord she has been in so much pain, she needs your healing touch. Only you can change what is happening in her little life, I also ask for peace and rest for her mommy and daddy, they need your wisdom and strength. I believe in healings and have seen so many, Lord I'm thanking you in advance for little Bess. Thank you Lord for hearing our prayers. In Jesus name I pray. Amen


----------



## jackstraw

Thanks everyone-

Today's been pretty good. She cried for about 30 minutes last night around 11PM. Then slept through the entire night.

This morning she ate all her food. Afterward, we took her outside to see if she would potty. She walked about 20 ft into our neighbor's yard and pooped a poop that would make a great dane blush... and peed too.

She's been sleeping for most of the day. No crying. She's physically more relaxed.


----------



## Rocky's Mom

What a relief it must be for you...for us too. I hated to hear how much pain she was in. It was heartwrenching, cannot imagine how heartwrenching for YOU.


----------



## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> Thanks everyone-
> 
> Today's been pretty good. She cried for about 30 minutes last night around 11PM. Then slept through the entire night.
> 
> This morning she ate all her food. Afterward, we took her outside to see if she would potty. She walked about 20 ft into our neighbor's yard and pooped a poop that would make a great dane blush... and peed too.
> 
> She's been sleeping for most of the day. No crying. She's physically more relaxed.


I am so happy she is feeling better as have been worried about her ever since you posted. Thanks for keeping us updated  We will keep her in our prayers for sure


----------



## Snowbody

jackstraw said:


> Thanks everyone-
> 
> Today's been pretty good. She cried for about 30 minutes last night around 11PM. Then slept through the entire night.
> 
> This morning she ate all her food. Afterward, we took her outside to see if she would potty. * She walked about 20 ft into our neighbor's yard and pooped a poop that would make a great dane blush... and peed too.*
> 
> She's been sleeping for most of the day. No crying. She's physically more relaxed.


Well we're all happy here. Your neighbor...not so much.:w00t::HistericalSmiley:


----------



## Maidto2Maltese

I am so happy to come read your update and see the wonderful news that she is doing so much better! I will continue to keep her in my prayers that she continues to 'heal'.


----------



## njdrake

I'm really happy to hear she's doing so much better. I hope she continues and the worst is over. Thanks for updating.


----------



## dwerten

just checking in today to see how she is doing


----------



## Snowbody

Same here. How's Bess?


----------



## jackstraw

Hi everyone-

Each day is getting better. She cried for about 30 minutes last night from 12:30-1AM. We gave her a pain pill. Not a peep from her after that.

She woke up the wife this morning in bed with her normal panting- like "let's get up, mom, time to eat!" pant.

She can walk again- but her gait is still a little off. She can pee again, boy does she love to...

The best part was busting her in the act of trying to steal Jack's food in his crate. A perfect sign of getting back to normal.

All signs are showing recovery. We're not out of the woods my any means, but we're looking good. Now we need to find out if this is temporary or back to normal.

Thanks for all the support!


----------



## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> Hi everyone-
> 
> Each day is getting better. She cried for about 30 minutes last night from 12:30-1AM. We gave her a pain pill. Not a peep from her after that.
> 
> She woke up the wife this morning in bed with her normal panting- like "let's get up, mom, time to eat!" pant.
> 
> She can walk again- but her gait is still a little off. She can pee again, boy does she love to...
> 
> The best part was busting her in the act of trying to steal Jack's food in his crate. A perfect sign of getting back to normal.
> 
> All signs are showing recovery. We're not out of the woods my any means, but we're looking good. Now we need to find out if this is temporary or back to normal.
> 
> Thanks for all the support!


The steroids are making her pee more as it increases urine production so make sure to let her out more unless on wee wee pads in the house

She is improving if from steroids as it reduces inflamation 

when you said pain pill are you referring to steroids?

I am so glad you are seeing improvement that is great


----------



## Snowbody

From spending time with my cousin's beagle on prednisolone (or whatever it's called) he was starving all the time and very thirsty so that's par for the course on it from what I saw. Glad she isn't in all that pain and is doing some normal dog things again.:chili:


----------



## Maidto2Maltese

Wonderful to come see she is feeling so much better!!:chili:


----------



## Matilda's mommy

we just need to keep praying for her, I'm so glad she's feeling better


----------



## maltlovereileen

Wow what a journey you guys have been on...was so sad reading all the posts til I read she is in less pain/improving.

Can't help but wonder if she tore a ligament or something since this seems to have started when you changed out to the slicker floors? Maybe she ran on them and skidded out or something?


----------



## lovesophie

I'm so, so sorry you and your wife are going through this, but I'm so relieved Bess is doing better. I'll be thinking of your sweet, sweet girl, and hoping you are able to get to the bottom of this. :grouphug:


----------



## Snowbody

Where's our Bess report? Hoping she's doing better. :grouphug:


----------



## dwerten

Snowbody said:


> Where's our Bess report? Hoping she's doing better. :grouphug:


thanks for bumping as was wondering as well  I always think no news is good news so hoping all is going good


----------



## missiek

Wow I just read through all of this thread! What a long scarey journey you have been on with poor Bess! I do hope that the steroids are helping and that this is a permanent improvement! Please update when you can and congratulations on the upcoming baby! Do you know if its a boy or girl yet? When are you guys due?


----------



## njdrake

I was looking for an update too. I hope everything's going alright with Bess.
:grouphug:


----------



## Maidto2Maltese

Praying all is well also!


----------



## jackstraw

Sorry for the delay-

While her health has improved drastically, we do notice she's not her typical self (she's been about 80-85%). Most people wouldn't even know she was sick, but we do.

Over the weekend, we decided that we should take her to get an MRI. Even though the last 2 days she's not taken any pain meds/valium, we wonder if the Prednisone is masking the problem. 

On top of that, the wife and I are going out of town for 5 days this Saturday. Usually, we take our dogs to my parents' house- but we've really worried if Bess would to re-injure herself, it would be really bad for us to be gone and leave my dad w/ this problem. Not to mention that she'd be in pain like she was last week.

So- 2 days ago (Monday) we called the specialist and scheduled for Bess to get an MRI today. If the Dr finds something operable, then they will take her to surgery.

Not what we expected to do last week, but we looked at the numbers- and last week was a good week for work, i.e.- $$$.

We dropper her off this morning and are waiting to hear from the Vet- w/ the MRI results. 

Fingers crossed.


----------



## silverhaven

Thanks for the update. I hope they can make a full diagnosis from this. There is nothing worse than not knowing what is going on


----------



## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> Sorry for the delay-
> 
> While her health has improved drastically, we do notice she's not her typical self (she's been about 80-85%). Most people wouldn't even know she was sick, but we do.
> 
> Over the weekend, we decided that we should take her to get an MRI. Even though the last 2 days she's not taken any pain meds/valium, we wonder if the Prednisone is masking the problem.
> 
> On top of that, the wife and I are going out of town for 5 days this Saturday. Usually, we take our dogs to my parents' house- but we've really worried if Bess would to re-injure herself, it would be really bad for us to be gone and leave my dad w/ this problem. Not to mention that she'd be in pain like she was last week.
> 
> So- 2 days ago (Monday) we called the specialist and scheduled for Bess to get an MRI today. If the Dr finds something operable, then they will take her to surgery.
> 
> Not what we expected to do last week, but we looked at the numbers- and last week was a good week for work, i.e.- $$$.
> 
> We dropper her off this morning and are waiting to hear from the Vet- w/ the MRI results.
> 
> Fingers crossed.


prayers for your baby that you get some answers today. Please keep us posted as she has stolen our hearts for sure  Hang in there


----------



## Ladysmom

jackstraw said:


> Sorry for the delay-
> 
> While her health has improved drastically, we do notice she's not her typical self (she's been about 80-85%). Most people wouldn't even know she was sick, but we do.
> 
> Over the weekend, we decided that we should take her to get an MRI. Even though the last 2 days she's not taken any pain meds/valium, we wonder if the Prednisone is masking the problem.
> 
> On top of that, the wife and I are going out of town for 5 days this Saturday. Usually, we take our dogs to my parents' house- but we've really worried if Bess would to re-injure herself, it would be really bad for us to be gone and leave my dad w/ this problem. Not to mention that she'd be in pain like she was last week.
> 
> So- 2 days ago (Monday) we called the specialist and scheduled for Bess to get an MRI today. If the Dr finds something operable, then they will take her to surgery.
> 
> Not what we expected to do last week, but we looked at the numbers- and last week was a good week for work, i.e.- $$$.
> 
> We dropper her off this morning and are waiting to hear from the Vet- w/ the MRI results.
> 
> Fingers crossed.


I am so glad you decided to get the MRI done. Hopefully that will tell the vet what is causing her pain.


----------



## jackstraw

Speak of the devil-

Just got off the phone w/ the Neuro Dr- he said that *she actually has 3 ruptured disks. *BUT... he said 2 look pretty old- and his recommendation is to hold off on surgery right now. His words were "she's not really that bad" and he doesn't want to put her through something like this if she doesn't need it.

He does want to get her back in a few weeks later and reeval. If surgery is needed later, he'll take another MRI- but won't charge us. So in other words, there's no price difference for waiting a few weeks.

Whew! When he first said 3 ruptured discs, I about said "oh s**t"... 

Good news.


----------



## michellerobison

Amber took a while to get back to 90% she still won't jump on the chair yet,but she will jump on the couch. That UTI really freaked her I think. The past pain stil has her cautious on jumping up on furniture. She's not 100% bu someday she will be,if not we'll take her anyway we can.

It may take a while for your sweet one to get better,but she will! I'm just thrilled she's doing as well as she is,we all are...
Hugs!


----------



## Matilda's mommy

I'm glad you got some good news, hopefully she will be ok


----------



## Snowbody

:smheat: All in all good news. I'm so happy Bess is feeling better and wow she got the MRI and it's been read and she really might not need surgery. There's nothing like specialists So glad that Bess is even 80% back to normal. Such a long way to come from where she was. We'll still want to hear how she's doing...and how about a picture one of these days so we can see who we're well wishing Please keep us posted. We're still with you. :chili:


----------



## Aarianne

I'm so glad you got the MRI and she's not "that bad" according to the specialist. It's fantastic that he doesn't feel that she requires surgery!

The good thing about leaving her with your parents when she's not feeling 100%, is that she's unlikely to do anything foolish to injur herself further... I'm sure she'll err on the side of caution and be a good girl! :thumbsup:


----------



## silverhaven

That is great news. Sounding more like rest, time painkillers and an anti-inflammatory may get her a lot better. :biggrin: I am glad you had the MRI. It sounds like it will put your mind at rest.


----------



## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> Speak of the devil-
> 
> Just got off the phone w/ the Neuro Dr- he said that *she actually has 3 ruptured disks. *BUT... he said 2 look pretty old- and his recommendation is to hold off on surgery right now. His words were "she's not really that bad" and he doesn't want to put her through something like this if she doesn't need it.
> 
> He does want to get her back in a few weeks later and reeval. If surgery is needed later, he'll take another MRI- but won't charge us. So in other words, there's no price difference for waiting a few weeks.
> 
> Whew! When he first said 3 ruptured discs, I about said "oh s**t"...
> 
> Good news.


That is great news. So glad you did the MRI. It is so good to have a definite answer on what is going on and even though testing can be expensive sometimes it is more expensive just trying different things without getting a definite diagnosis. 

I am so happy for you and her  So happy that money came at the time you needed it to help your girl. God works in mysterious ways


----------



## dwerten

Snowbody said:


> :smheat: All in all good news. I'm so happy Bess is feeling better and wow she got the MRI and it's been read and she really might not need surgery. There's nothing like specialists So glad that Bess is even 80% back to normal. Such a long way to come from where she was. We'll still want to hear how she's doing...and how about a picture one of these days so we can see who we're well wishing Please keep us posted. We're still with you. :chili:


I totally agree. When things get out of the norm I always say get to a specialist. It seems like alot of money at first but in the long run it will save you. I learned the hard way years ago after spending 3500.00 with a vet and then had to go to specialist which I did not even know existed back then but found one on my own when he almost died. I would have saved alot of money just going straight to specialist as in the end it cost me more than double that  So now if it starts to get tricky I just go right to specialty hospital.


----------



## Rocky's Mom

Awesome news...at least it's not something terrible like cancer. Did he say he can fix them eventually or they will heal in time? I am so happy for you that Bess is ok for now. Thank God for that help with the money that you did what you did for her. Give her a little soft hug from Auntie Dianne and a kiss from Rocky.:wub:


----------



## dwerten

Rocky's Mom said:


> Awesome news...at least it's not something terrible like cancer. Did he say he can fix them eventually or they will heal in time? I am so happy for you that Bess is ok for now. Thank God for that help with the money that you did what you did for her. Give her a little soft hug from Auntie Dianne and a kiss from Rocky.:wub:


I was wondering the same thing. I know some recommend chiropractors and some are against them so was just curious if this or physical therapy place are good for something like this. 

This place is amazing and Tami on her went there 

Los Angeles pet pain relief, dog acupuncture, rehabilitation, Santa Monica

she saw Dr Waldman so you may want to reach out to her she is tamizami on here. Her dog did not have a back injury but she can tell you about dr waldman and maybe you can do a phone consult - never hurts to gather all the info you can when a baby is sick.


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## Ladysmom

Wow! Three ruptured discs? Poor Bess!


----------



## Aarianne

In humans that aren't so bad (not requiring surgery), they usually just get better on their own with time, rest, and increasing exercise slowly as they recover. Then for prevention, I know that staying active and fit, keeping weight down, and avoiding lifting heavy things, contact sports, anything jarring, etc. really helps. So in dogs, it's probably important to try to prevent jumping off furniture, etc., once you know your dog's susceptible to the problem.

My brother (a doctor that went through this himself) explained to me what happens once and I believe the disc just gets absorbed by your body (sort of just dries out) and then most people are fine like that. The discs are there to help cushion things for the spine, and they're good to have, but you don't need every last one. Still, the more you have, the better, so it's a good idea to take care of your back!

I just looked it up out of curiousity and ~50% of people recover from their herniated discs in 1 month and most have recovered by 6 months. So hopefully it's similar for dogs and it won't take too long for your little girl either.


----------



## dwerten

Aarianne said:


> In humans that aren't so bad (not requiring surgery), they usually just get better on their own with time, rest, and increasing exercise slowly as they recover. Then for prevention, I know that staying active and fit, keeping weight down, and avoiding lifting heavy things, contact sports, anything jarring, etc. really helps. So in dogs, it's probably important to try to prevent jumping off furniture, etc., once you know your dog's susceptible to the problem.
> 
> My brother (a doctor that went through this himself) explained to me what happens once and I believe the disc just gets absorbed by your body (sort of just dries out) and then most people are fine like that. The discs are there to help cushion things for the spine, and they're good to have, but you don't need every last one. Still, the more you have, the better, so it's a good idea to take care of your back!
> 
> I just looked it up out of curiousity and ~50% of people recover from their herniated discs in 1 month and most have recovered by 6 months. So hopefully it's similar for dogs and it won't take too long for your little girl either.


great post thanks so much


----------



## jackstraw

Hey guys- just want to check in and let you how things are going w/ Bess.


We thought we were out of the woods, but she had a small relapse over Thanksgiving weekend. She was shaking and crying. We got her back on the full dose of Prednisone for about 10 days and she was back to her normal self- well she's sorta calmer now. She doesn't play as much, but besides that, it's good to see her not in pain.

Two things we have noticed- she constantly licks her front right leg. We decided to get her groomed hoping that shorter hair would help, but she's licked all the hair off regardless.

We also notice something else-
When we scratch her back or near her spine, *her legs start paddling*.

She never did this before the whole ordeal the month before. 

She was on Prednisone for 10 days, then we gave her a 1/2 dose every other day for 7 days and now she's been off for about 10 days.

Is this a side effect of Prednisone?


----------



## summer

It sounds like Bess has been through quite an ordeal. Have you talked to your vet about putting her on a glucosamine supplement? It can help with disc problems. I hope she continues to feel better.


----------



## missiek

I wish I had some answers for you Jackstraw.  I am sorry Bess had a relapse...that must have been so sad to see her like that again. I don't know all of the side-effects of steroids, so you will have to talk to your veterinarian about that. As far as the paddling feet....maybe there is some nerve damage from the disk and perhaps that is why her foot movement is now present??


----------



## maltlovereileen

I have no advice... just wanted to offer moral support and love for your sweet Bess... xoxox


----------



## uniquelovdolce

im so sorry i will b praying for her to get better


----------



## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> Hey guys- just want to check in and let you how things are going w/ Bess.
> 
> 
> We thought we were out of the woods, but she had a small relapse over Thanksgiving weekend. She was shaking and crying. We got her back on the full dose of Prednisone for about 10 days and she was back to her normal self- well she's sorta calmer now. She doesn't play as much, but besides that, it's good to see her not in pain.
> 
> Two things we have noticed- she constantly licks her front right leg. We decided to get her groomed hoping that shorter hair would help, but she's licked all the hair off regardless.
> 
> We also notice something else-
> When we scratch her back or near her spine, *her legs start paddling*.
> 
> She never did this before the whole ordeal the month before.
> 
> She was on Prednisone for 10 days, then we gave her a 1/2 dose every other day for 7 days and now she's been off for about 10 days.
> 
> Is this a side effect of Prednisone?


no those are not signs of prednisone as my dog has been on steroids for a couple years now but it is temarilp prednisolone. She was on prednisone years ago and what you are describing is not a side effect. 

I am so sorry she relapsed a little but looks like you jumped on it and know how to treat now and she is back ok. 

The licking could be allergies as they lick from that or some just do it out of habit or nervousness. If allergies sometimes cutting the hair shorter aggravates it and makes them more itchy. I put booties on my allergy girl if she starts doing the licking thing too much and it stops it. I also rinse her paws if she is doing this as well. You can buy infant mittens and use a scrunchy to keep it in place. DD does this sometimes when we are watching tv and I have done that or put a blanket over paws just to stop the obssession of it as they can form a habit of doing this and with allergies it is just like a mosquito bite the more you itch it the worse it itches so stopping the behavior until things calm down helps alot. 

the moving legs while rubbing back area -it could be due to disc issue but not really sure. I would just avoid rubbing anywhere where there is the disc problem to not aggravate it and make sure she is not jumping on and off things or going up and down stairs so it can heal completely


----------



## Katkoota

awwh sorry about the relapse.
I have no advice except for my prayers for precious Bess to feel better very soon (hugs)
Kat


----------



## jackstraw

Hi folks,

Just wanted to give everyone an update. Bess has been on a full dose of Prednisone (5mg/day) and for the last 4 days is every other day.

She's regressing back to where she was in the beginning. We're taking her back to the neurologist tomorrow. I'm not a doctor, but this can't just be a ruptured disc.

I'm thinking it's some type of encephalitis. Look at these symptoms:



Back spasms (her lower back seems like its spasming)
Problems getting in position to urinate and defecate
Constant licking of back, sides, paws
Stumbling/losing balance
Hides in kennel
Walking aimlessly/can’t get comfortable
Walking around- sounds like tap dancing on hardwood floor

Rubbing up against the wall, furniture, etc.
Last night she urinated on the floor. Poor girl is not herself. 

How can removing a ruptured disc be the solution??? This seems like something else.


----------



## Ladysmom

jackstraw said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Just wanted to give everyone an update. Bess has been on a full dose of Prednisone (5mg/day) and for the last 4 days is every other day.
> 
> She's regressing back to where she was in the beginning. We're taking her back to the neurologist tomorrow. I'm not a doctor, but this can't just be a ruptured disc.
> 
> I'm thinking it's some type of encephalitis. Look at these symptoms:
> 
> 
> 
> Back spasms (her lower back seems like its spasming)
> Problems getting in position to urinate and defecate
> Constant licking of back, sides, paws
> Stumbling/losing balance
> Hides in kennel
> Walking aimlessly/can’t get comfortable
> Walking around- sounds like tap dancing on hardwood floor
> 
> Rubbing up against the wall, furniture, etc.
> Last night she urinated on the floor. Poor girl is not herself.
> 
> How can removing a ruptured disc be the solution??? This seems like something else.



A ruptured disc puts pressure on the nerve. It can cause loss of bladder/bowel control. It can also explain the pacing, loss of coordination, hiding in the kennel, etc. as it is very painful. Muscles are affected and spasms are the result.

I am not a vet, but speak from experience. I had a herniated disc and it was awful. I had back surgery 12 years ago and it was the best thing I ever did!


----------



## jackstraw

She's staying overnight at the specialist. They think she may have a ruptured disc in her back, as well as the ones they found in her neck a weeks ago.

The vet said they are going to give her another MRI tomorrow morning and will let us know if she needs surgery.


----------



## KAG

Aww, poor baby girl. My prayers are with you.
xoxoxoxoxo


----------



## Snowbody

Sending prayers that something will help her. :grouphug:


----------



## Rocky's Mom

Sending up prayers...poor girl.


----------



## uniquelovdolce

oh man i hope they find the cause , and i just pray ur girl gets better .


jackstraw said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Just wanted to give everyone an update. Bess has been on a full dose of Prednisone (5mg/day) and for the last 4 days is every other day.
> 
> She's regressing back to where she was in the beginning. We're taking her back to the neurologist tomorrow. I'm not a doctor, but this can't just be a ruptured disc.
> 
> I'm thinking it's some type of encephalitis. Look at these symptoms:
> 
> 
> 
> Back spasms (her lower back seems like its spasming)
> Problems getting in position to urinate and defecate
> Constant licking of back, sides, paws
> Stumbling/losing balance
> Hides in kennel
> Walking aimlessly/can’t get comfortable
> Walking around- sounds like tap dancing on hardwood floor
> 
> Rubbing up against the wall, furniture, etc.
> Last night she urinated on the floor. Poor girl is not herself.
> 
> How can removing a ruptured disc be the solution??? This seems like something else.


----------



## bellapuppy

I am wondering if the new flooring has something to do with it. Carpet has more traction and is what she is used to, right? Maybe she is unsteady or slips/slides on the wood. Maybe the wood is too cold for her bum. :wub:
I do agree with the others though, to get another opinion and more testing. BTW, how does she act when she is on solid carpet? just some thoughts...and praying it is not anything serious.


----------



## Aarianne

Aw, poor poor baby. Sorry to hear she's having problems again. I agree with Ladysmom... it still sounds like disc/pinched nerve issues. 

Hopefully the MRI will give a good indication of how to proceed.


----------



## jackstraw

Well.... we found the problem. The specialist did a full body MRI- back, neck, and even brain. She's got two ruptured discs in her back... right where's she's been licking lately.

The doctor recommends surgery to have the two discs removed in her back, which will be tomorrow.

We asked if this is a part of a bigger issue where she's got some type of degenerative disease where she's have more issues down the road. While he said he couldn't rule that out, he sees this a lot, especially in Malteses and is confident that this surgery is the best option.

So, cross your fingers/paws thanks to everyone for their support. I will let you know how surgery goes tomorrow.


----------



## Bailey&Me

glad you found the issue...best of luck with the surgery tomorrow!!!


----------



## uniquelovdolce

good luck on the surgery , will be praying for ur baby and will definitely have her in my prayers


----------



## Furbaby's Mommie

Oh that poor little dear. She must be in awful pain. I pray she has a successful surgery.


----------



## Rocky's Mom

Praying the surgery goes well and is completely successful. Let us know.
hugs


----------



## The A Team

Sorry I hadn't seen this thread earlier. I sure hope the surgery goes well tomorrow and that the problem gets fixed. I'll check in tomorrow. 

Good luck. :thumbsup:


----------



## bellapuppy

Glad they know the cause for sure but sorry you and she have to go thru it. prayers!


----------



## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> Well.... we found the problem. The specialist did a full body MRI- back, neck, and even brain. She's got two ruptured discs in her back... right where's she's been licking lately.
> 
> The doctor recommends surgery to have the two discs removed in her back, which will be tomorrow.
> 
> We asked if this is a part of a bigger issue where she's got some type of degenerative disease where she's have more issues down the road. While he said he couldn't rule that out, he sees this a lot, especially in Malteses and is confident that this surgery is the best option.
> 
> So, cross your fingers/paws thanks to everyone for their support. I will let you know how surgery goes tomorrow.


awe so sorry  I will be praying all goes well with your baby with the surgery


----------



## Aarianne

Aw, I hope all goes well. That's great that the specialist is so confident. I hope she heals fast and gets back to herself quickly!


----------



## jackstraw

Hi everyone,

Bess' surgery went well Friday afternoon. The doctor said her two discs were really bad.

We were hoping to pick her up today, but the vet said she's having problems urinating and can't walk very well. She also has a bulge on her side from the surgery. The doc said this is temporary and should go away in a few days.

We're a little concerned that she's not recovering as quick as we hoped. She's been at the vet since Wednesday. The wife went to visit her today for the first time. We worried that if we went sooner, it would add stress to her.


----------



## dwerten

glad the surgery went well. Hang in there sometimes it takes time for healing. Prayers all will be ok and for a fast healing


----------



## lovesophie

I'm so relieved her surgery went well. Since she's older, perhaps the anesthesia is taking longer to wear off? Maybe that's why she's having trouble urinating and walking? 

Bess and your family will be in our thoughts. Please keep us updated. :grouphug:


----------



## Barb and the boys

Keeping you in my prayers for a full recovery.

Barb & Twinkie


----------



## Dixie's Mama

I'm so sorry I missed this until now. I'm so very sorry for what you, your wife and poor little Bess have been going through. I read from the beginning. What a roller coaster ride you have been on. I can't think of anything much worse than watching your little dog in pain like you have had to do.
Bess is now in my prayers for a good and speedy recovery. Bless you sweet soul.


----------



## Snowbody

I'm so glad you got some answers and the surgery done. I don't think I'd worry about the slow recovery. She's a bit older and she's also been in pain for a while so it might just take her a while to get up to speed. Sending prayers for her recovery. Thanks for taking such good care of her.:wub:


----------



## summer

I'm so sorry to hear that Bess, you and your wife have been going through so much. We hope that Bess makes a full recovery and feels better very, very soon.


----------



## Snowball Pie's Mommi

I am just reading this. I am so sorry for what all of you have had to endure. I pray Bess' surgery will have her feeling better and better as each day passes.


----------



## misstia

I am so sorry to hear about your baby, someone refered me to this thread as I am going thru that with my Tia right now. She has been in her crate since Thursday and she in on meds Rimadyl 25mg 1/4 tablet twice a day and Tramadol 50mg 1/4 tablem twice a day. She has been diagnoze with IVDD Intervertebral Disk Disease . This is the worst that she's been since these episodes started. She eats and drink and goes out to potty but her gaite is unsure and her front leg is also unsure, she almost look like she will fall over at times. I also notice the last few days she has been chewing on her hair by her neck and is leaking her paw. I saw a Orthopedic Vet and we did X Ray and blood work anthey all came back ok.
I think Tia has rupture discs also...I know you baby had surgery, how is she doing?? I don't know that I want to put Tia thru all of this.

Jacky


----------



## jackstraw

Hi everyone,

I picked up Bess yesterday afternoon and she looks like a football- her back has staples. It looks like it would hurt like ****, but she's tough. The only time she's cried was last night when we put her in her kennel right beside our bed. 

She was not cool with that, so we concocted a 3x3 padded pin, with jumbo pillow, two kennels and a gate to keep her from walking around. We put an old comforter on the floor so she wouldn't be directly on the hardwoods.

So far, so good.

She's pooped twice and has eaten her food! This morning she pooped so much I asked her if she needed a newspaper and a cup of coffee. 

She barely can put any weight on her back right leg and she stumbles when we take her out to potty. 

We are giving her .2CC of liquid Tramodol and 2.5MG of Prednisone which we will be tapering starting tomorrow.

Overall, we're happy she's home, but we can't tell if she's better- it's too soon. 


Misstia,

I hope your little girl is OK! From reading your post, it sounds like we're in a similar boat... especially the licking part. I hope all goes well.


----------



## Rocky's Mom

I hope Bess heals up quickly. Saying prayers.


----------



## suzimalteselover

Poor dear. My mother had one ruptured disc and said it was extremely painful. She was so glad to have the surgery. I pray Bess is out of pain soon and makes a full recovery. I'm so glad she's back home with you now. Hopefully, each day will be a bit brighter for Bess.


----------



## maggieh

Praying for a quick recovery!


----------



## uniquelovdolce

praying for ur baby's recovery


jackstraw said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I picked up Bess yesterday afternoon and she looks like a football- her back has staples. It looks like it would hurt like ****, but she's tough. The only time she's cried was last night when we put her in her kennel right beside our bed.
> 
> She was not cool with that, so we concocted a 3x3 padded pin, with jumbo pillow, two kennels and a gate to keep her from walking around. We put an old comforter on the floor so she wouldn't be directly on the hardwoods.
> 
> So far, so good.
> 
> She's pooped twice and has eaten her food! This morning she pooped so much I asked her if she needed a newspaper and a cup of coffee.
> 
> She barely can put any weight on her back right leg and she stumbles when we take her out to potty.
> 
> We are giving her .2CC of liquid Tramodol and 2.5MG of Prednisone which we will be tapering starting tomorrow.
> 
> Overall, we're happy she's home, but we can't tell if she's better- it's too soon.
> 
> 
> Misstia,
> 
> I hope your little girl is OK! From reading your post, it sounds like we're in a similar boat... especially the licking part. I hope all goes well.


----------



## deeda9999

I am just reading your whole story and I am so sorry for all that you have been through. It is so tough on everyone when you know they aren't themselves. I am so glad they found out what the problem was and hopefully Bess will have a fast recovery. You are on the road to the finish line. I was surprised at how quickly Gilmore rebounded after his surgery. Each week makes a huge difference.

Hang in there!!! Hugs to you and your family!!!!


----------



## k/c mom

Hoping for a quick recovery!!

I haven't read the entire thread so this may have already been discussed, but I want to suggest a stroller if she is limited in her mobility. Rather than just sitting in a crate on the floor, the stroller gives her a chance to be "mobile" and off the ground so she can see what's going on. She can even sleep in it and go for a "walk" outside, etc. This one is what I used:
Pet Gear Special Edition Pet Stroller


----------



## lovesophie

Thanks so much for the update! I've been thinking about Bess, and will continue to send positive thoughts her way. I'm glad everything's good so far. I wish her a smooth recovery with no setbacks. Please continue to keep us posted. 



jackstraw said:


> She's pooped twice and has eaten her food! *This morning she pooped so much I asked her if she needed a newspaper and a cup of coffee. *


ROFL! :HistericalSmiley: :w00t:


----------



## bellapuppy

Oh, little girl! Praying she heals quickly.


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## misstia

jackstraw said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I picked up Bess yesterday afternoon and she looks like a football- her back has staples. It looks like it would hurt like ****, but she's tough. The only time she's cried was last night when we put her in her kennel right beside our bed.
> 
> She was not cool with that, so we concocted a 3x3 padded pin, with jumbo pillow, two kennels and a gate to keep her from walking around. We put an old comforter on the floor so she wouldn't be directly on the hardwoods.
> 
> So far, so good.
> 
> She's pooped twice and has eaten her food! This morning she pooped so much I asked her if she needed a newspaper and a cup of coffee.
> 
> She barely can put any weight on her back right leg and she stumbles when we take her out to potty.
> 
> We are giving her .2CC of liquid Tramodol and 2.5MG of Prednisone which we will be tapering starting tomorrow.
> 
> Overall, we're happy she's home, but we can't tell if she's better- it's too soon.
> 
> 
> Misstia,
> 
> I hope your little girl is OK! From reading your post, it sounds like we're in a similar boat... especially the licking part. I hope all goes well.


 
Thank you and please keep us posted on Bess recovery, Tia is better today, but I will still crate her as she alwasy want to keep up with my two big dogs TJ and Electra. I will teach her not to jump and will keep a close eye on her but this been happening a lot lately and I am affraid that one day we may have to do surgery :-( may I ask you what was the cost? I may have to start saving for it. Did they tell you that Bess will be able to be as active as before? did they say anything about this happening again? thank you for letting us know about Bess!


----------



## jackstraw

Hi misstia,

It's not cheap by any means. The vet charged us $1165 for the initial MRI back in November 2010. They didn't charge us for a second MRI scan last week. The surgery was $1900...For a whopping $3000.

I shake my head reading this in disbelief. But I gotta say that we have no regrets. We felt that the Dr. was very conservative with his approach. Surgery wasn't recommended until we exhausted all other options.


----------



## jackstraw

I thought I'd give an update-

It's been 9 days since surgery and Bess seems to be moving around a lot more- which is good and bad. Keeping her contained in a crate is impossible, so we've made some makeshift confined areas. When I'm in the office, I have towels covering the hardwood floor, her crate, her dog bed, and an old down comforter. We do the same for the den and bedroom too.

While Jack loves it, Bess can't "get comfortable." She is constantly getting up, hobbling around, and whining. I stress whining, not crying. She cried a little yesterday when I had to put her in the crate. But it wasn't for pain, but unhappiness. 

The wife put a shirt on her because we caught her licking her incision with the staples. Since then, she hasn't been able to get to it.

*Some things that sorta concern us:*


I do notice that her hind legs are a little stiff and are together.
She also can't put any weight on her back right leg sometimes.
She randomly shakes like a dog would do just out of the water.
She can't get comfortable.
She kept us up for most of the night with the constant moving around.
Our follow up with the vet is later this week. Should be be concerned with the above or is this normal?

We're still giving her liquid Tramodol 3xs a day. She's on 5mg of Prednisone every other day. And last night we gave her a Valium hoping it would chill her out.


----------



## lovesophie

Thanks for the update. Poor girl. I hate that she can't get comfortable, but it sounds like her pain is under control, which I'm so relieved about. Maybe you should call your vet and ask if your list of concerns is expected or abnormal. I think speaking to your vet about your concerns will help ease your worries. I hope her follow-up visit goes well. Please keep us posted!


----------



## The A Team

Nine days after surgery and she's still this uncomfortable! I pray she recovers soon.....


----------



## misstia

This worry me, poor Bess! I don't know what to think, I am following Bess progress closely and wanted to thank you for the updates.

When i read what your guys are going thru I can not help thinking (don't hate me for this) when you see Bess like this do you sometime think maybe you should have euthanize her? I know you love her very much but this has to be very difficult for her and you and your wife too..

Lots of things are going thru my head, I guess the outcome of your little girl will determiine what I will do to mine if she has to have surgery.


----------



## jackstraw

Hi everyone.

Well, just got back from the vet, again...

I took Bess in and showed the dr her hind legs and how she's licked almost all the hair off. He also got to witness her "can't-get-comfortable" demeanor and how her hind legs are spasming.

Get this- she was wagging her tail and out of no where she barked at him... like she was in good spirits.

The dr said he's never seen this before. He suspected this is something totally different than her ruptured discs. He took her back and discussed this with the other drs. He returned to tell me that her mobility is great and she seems to be recovering very well from the surgery.

He suspects this is some type of *allergy* and prescribed *Gabapentin*. He said that if things don't change in a week for us to consider a Dermatologist.

While I'm happy she's recovering and this isn't some setback, I also worry that this is going to become the never ending recovery.

Does anyone here have any experience with *Gabapentin?


*


----------



## jackstraw

misstia said:


> This worry me, poor Bess! I don't know what to think, I am following Bess progress closely and wanted to thank you for the updates.
> 
> When i read what your guys are going thru I can not help thinking (don't hate me for this) when you see Bess like this do you sometime think maybe you should have euthanize her? I know you love her very much but this has to be very difficult for her and you and your wife too..
> 
> Lots of things are going thru my head, I guess the outcome of your little girl will determiine what I will do to mine if she has to have surgery.


Misstia,

I also worried that her quality of life was greatly diminishing. But since we're dealing with a whole other issue, we hope this is temporary.

There are no guarantees.


----------



## misstia

jackstraw said:


> Misstia,
> 
> I also worried that her quality of life was greatly diminishing. But since we're dealing with a whole other issue, we hope this is temporary.
> 
> There are no guarantees.


I know and that is scary to me, I am sure that Bess is as special to you as Tia is to me. They are so full of life and evergy, so playful! 

Tis is back to herself now, til next time. I hate to think this way but it has been happening too many times.

Please keep posting your visits with your vet, I know you said that you will be having a baby soon, I hope that Bess is healed before your baby is born! :mellow:


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## jackstraw

And the roller coaster continues. Early this morning she started back with the whining. This morning she's been crying really bad. 

I'm thinking this isn't allergies, but something a lot worse. Her screaming and crying is just like it was in the beginning a few months ago. My wife is out of town and is trying to get on an earlier flight back today. When she gets home I think we're going to have to seriously consider the option that we've hoped to avoid.

Bess' quality is bad. She's not herself. She looks bad- almost all the hair on her hind legs are licked off. Her front paws are bad too.

She keeps walking in circle and can't stay put. I called my primary vet, but she is off today. I left her a VM explaining the situation. She'll probably call back in the next couple hours.

I'm totally exhausted with the situation. We can't do anything to comfort her. The lack of sleep, feeling of frustration, and inability to work have taken a toll.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just thinking that this is the end of the road. I don't even give a crap about what we spent. I just want her to stop hurting.


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## edelweiss

So, so sad to hear about your babies pain---you are the ONLY one who can decide what is best for her---you know her so well.
Sending much love to you & the wife & your baby & prayers to God for supernatural wisdom & courage in whatever you decide.
You have my support!
hugs


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## Snowbody

I'm so sorry that she's still having problems. It's so heartbreaking and you've been doing everything under the sun and moon to try to make her better. Doesn't sound like allergies at all to me either. Have you spoken to the surgeon? I'm praying that you can still find something that will make her better but if there is no way to ease her pain and suffering, then you will need to make that decision... for her. Thank you so much for updating us and we are praying for you all.


----------



## The A Team

May you fnd the wisdom and strength to make the right decision. I haven't followed this entire thread, but it sounds like maybe an incorrect diagnosis hasn't been made somewhere along the line. ??? You must be so fustrated and exhausted from this whole ordeal. 

Would allgeries cause so much pain and spasms??? maybe....I don't know much about anything. 

We're behind you no matter what you decide to do.


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## misstia

jackstraw said:


> And the roller coaster continues. Early this morning she started back with the whining. This morning she's been crying really bad.
> 
> I'm thinking this isn't allergies, but something a lot worse. Her screaming and crying is just like it was in the beginning a few months ago. My wife is out of town and is trying to get on an earlier flight back today. When she gets home I think we're going to have to seriously consider the option that we've hoped to avoid.
> 
> Bess' quality is bad. She's not herself. She looks bad- almost all the hair on her hind legs are licked off. Her front paws are bad too.
> 
> She keeps walking in circle and can't stay put. I called my primary vet, but she is off today. I left her a VM explaining the situation. She'll probably call back in the next couple hours.
> 
> I'm totally exhausted with the situation. We can't do anything to comfort her. The lack of sleep, feeling of frustration, and inability to work have taken a toll.
> 
> Sorry for the rant. I'm just thinking that this is the end of the road. I don't even give a crap about what we spent. I just want her to stop hurting.


Oh my God, I feel so bad for you and Bess. Please you have to euthanize her, she is suffering!!! :-(

I will tell you a story, back in December I had to euthanize one of my fillies, she and another filly were running around in the open field and they collided, her shoulder was caved in..I called the vet immediately and they wanted to take her in for X ray and they told me that they did not know how she would be, they could not guarantee me anything, so I took a decision that was best for her and now she is in heaven trotting around with other horses! It was very hard and we cried for days but I am happy with my decision. 
You have to do what is best for Bess, it does not make you a bad person for doing that but someone that truly care about your baby!
I am so so sorry!


----------



## jackstraw

I took Bess back to the specialist again today. The dr thinks it's another ruptured disc. He noticed 3 were bad during the operation, but he elected to remove only 2. 

His reasoning was that he wanted to disrupt as little as possible. He says that this is a rare problem, maybe 3-5% have this.

I told him I prepared to bring Bess to the vet thinking that she would never leave. But he feels very confident that he can go back in and remove this ruptured disc. According to the dr, Bess should be able to recover fine.

He's not going to charge us for another MRI and surgery, just the medicine which is about $200.

So once again, we're looking at another surgery tomorrow. Hopefully this one will work.


----------



## uniquelovdolce

oh wow , im so saddened that she has to go thru yet another surgery ! poor baby .. is he sure its that , isnt it dangerous for her to keep going under? praying for ur baby to get thru this and recover quickly , n hugs to u as well .


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## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> I took Bess back to the specialist again today. The dr thinks it's another ruptured disc. He noticed 3 were bad during the operation, but he elected to remove only 2.
> 
> His reasoning was that he wanted to disrupt as little as possible. He says that this is a rare problem, maybe 3-5% have this.
> 
> I told him I prepared to bring Bess to the vet thinking that she would never leave. But he feels very confident that he can go back in and remove this ruptured disc. According to the dr, Bess should be able to recover fine.
> 
> He's not going to charge us for another MRI and surgery, just the medicine which is about $200.
> 
> So once again, we're looking at another surgery tomorrow. Hopefully this one will work.


omg i am so sorry poor baby and poor you  Hang in there and be strong for her and hopefully this will resolve everything - My heart is breaking for you as it is so tough to have a little one that does not feel well


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## Snowbody

I guess I'm kind of relieved to hear that Bess is going to have the surgery. At least it means that there is a reason for her discomfort and I know you have been at the brink of letting her go. I'm glad that the specialist isn't charging other than the meds and I'm praying so hard that this will save your little ones life and make her better. I can't even imagine how you are getting through all this. I'm sending prayers to you, your wife and Bess for tomorrow. Please let us know how she does.:grouphug:


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## Maglily

I'm so sorry for your heartache and I'll be sending prayers for you and Bess.


----------



## missiek

I just got through reading all of the latest posts. Poor Bess, and poor you and your wife. :crying: My heart aches for all of you. I do hope that this last surgery is the last one, and that Bess is finally free from pain and suffering after she heals. God bless you both! You have done so much for her, I know she knows that and loves you all the more for it. :grouphug:


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## misstia

Why did'nt they remove that disc to begin with? I would be very upset at the vet:angry: This little dog is going thru so much, I personaly don't agree with a second surgery, I would have lost confidence in the vet that did the surgery to begin with, free or not Bess is the one that is paying for this.
WOW


----------



## edelweiss

I want to repeat myself---not because I don't remember that I said this but because I think you need to hear it: It is your decision alone, w/your wife & your vet what you decide. You are the one who loves Bess and I think it is irresponsible for others to tell YOU what is best for your dog. Decisions like this are NEVER taken lightly and we know how much you love her. If the vet feels like he can save her & give her a reasonably good life why not do that, IF not then you can always choose to send her into her retirement. At least you would have tried.
Oh my, I am so praying for all of you and for wisdom. Please keep us posted.
:wub:


----------



## deeda9999

I'm praying for you and your family. It is heartbreaking that you have to go through this. Bess is lucky to have a mom and dad that love her so.


----------



## Bailey&Me

Oh I'm so sorry to hear that the first surgery didnt work as well as hoped, but I'm praying this one does the trick and fully heals her. Thoughts and prayers are with you today. Please keep us updated.


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## jackstraw

Hi folks,

Just got off the phone w/ the dr. After another MRI, he said that the suspected disc is not that bad. He does see swelling in the spinal cord.

His recommendation is to treat with a higher dose of Prednisone and Gabapentin. They're going to keep her until tomorrow so they can manager her pain effective.

They did say that she seems to be recovering really well. But if you read between the lines, he's saying that surgery won't help the situation. If she doesn't recover in a few days, then we have to look at the big picture and decide if her quality of life is acceptable.

Simply put, if she doesn't get better soon, we gotta let her go.


----------



## misstia

bless your heart, I know it is very difficult time for you and Bess..my heart goes out to you all :-(


----------



## silverhaven

I am so sorry for all you are going through, you are trying so hard for your baby. I know you will do what is best for her. :grouphug:


----------



## uniquelovdolce

checking on an update on bess , and praying second surgery went well .


----------



## Snowbody

I'm praying that Bess will get better.rayer: I totally agree with Sandi. You've been terrific parents trying to figure out how to help her. We know that you've tried everything and hopefully the meds may finally do the trick. If not, I know you will be doing what's best for Bess, as you have in the past. It's so hard to let them go, but if they are suffering it's the right thing to do. You gave her a wonderful life where she was truly loved. Thank you for sharing her with us and we're still holding out hope. Please let us know how she does.


----------



## jackstraw

Hi everyone,

My wife picked up Bess from the specialist this morning. She's doing better, but still can't seem to get comfortable. She periodically goes into a licking fit and we even saw her biting and pulling her back leg/paw.

The vet increased the dose of Pred, Tramadol, and Gabapentin. If we don't see that she's improving or back to being herself by Tuesday, we're going to let her go. Our selfishness can't take priority over her health.

****, this sucks!


----------



## Snowbody

jackstraw said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> My wife picked up Bess from the specialist this morning. She's doing better, but still can't seem to get comfortable. She periodically goes into a licking fit and we even saw her biting and pulling her back leg/paw.
> 
> The vet increased the dose of Pred, Tramadol, and Gabapentin. If we don't see that she's improving or back to being herself by Tuesday, we're going to let her go. Our selfishness can't take priority over her health.
> 
> ****, this sucks!


I'm praying that Bess gets better but if she doesn't, I support you in doing what's best for her...a very unselfish act. :grouphug:


----------



## Aarianne

Aw, so sorry to hear that things aren't going as well as we had all been hoping. I still hope things turn around and she has some happy days ahead.

I doubt this really helps you now--you've probably already looked it up... but Gabapentin/Neurontin relieves nerve-related pain. My uncle went on it for shingles pain relief for quite a long time and my mom went on it for MS-related pain and discomfort relief short-term and it worked wonderfully for both of them--allowing them more restful sleep too. I assume in Bess' case it's to reduce nerve pain associated with spinal cord and nerve damage/inflammation from both injury and surgery.

The leg and paw chewing and licking still sounds to me like it's possibly from ongoing nerve pain/numbness/tingling in her legs (related to nerve damage or the spinal cord inflammation). In any case, maybe a cone collar for a bit would be a good idea if she's getting carried away still and you're unable to distract her?


----------



## Rocky's Mom

Praying for Bess and for you too. I am sorry this is all happening.


----------



## jackstraw

Forgot to mention that when my wife went to pick Bess up from the specialist, they had her on a leash instead of carrying her. The tech said that Bess seems to like walking better than being held. 

My wife worked from home today and had her upstairs where it's all carpet. Bess would walk and walk around the room in fast motion... kinda like "walking it off".

Tonight has been better. She's still licking, but not near as much. She almost tried to jump up on the ottoman but we quickly stopped her.

We're cautiously optimistic.


----------



## mommatee

Prayers for Bess, you and your wife. So sorry you're having to go through this.


----------



## jackstraw

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to give a quick update on Bess. She's moving around with no signs of limping or pain. That's the good news.

The bad- she's licked/bitten herself to the point where she has red sores on her back and above her tail. Yesterday, we found her laying in the bathroom closet. We think it's because the tile floor is cold and it feels good to her.

She stinks really bad due to the licking. We're going to give her a bath today and hope that the conditioner will help sooth her. But if this is a neurological issue, I doubt a bath/moisturizer will help.

If we can get the licking and biting to stop, there may be light at the end of the tunnel... that and if she can get back to somewhat "normal" after we complete the Prednisone.


----------



## dwerten

try some coconut oil on her sores it really helps - you can get it at whole foods - the nutiva brand will work. It is safe for her to lick also and it is natural antibacterial and antifungal. I use it for dee dee's hot spots when she gets them and it heals up nicely. 

If on prednisone then it is not allergy related as it would help her to not be itchy on a steroid.


----------



## misstia

Did the surgeon that performed the surgery mentionned this could happened to Bess, side effects? It almost sounds like self mutilation which can happen especially if she is biting herself..poor thing..


----------



## Snowbody

Good and bad news - but the itching does sound like it is way less of an issue than the severe pain she was in. Were you able to get a color for her or can you put a onesie on to keep her from all the biting and licking. Any way for your surgeon or you to get in touch with a dermatologist for pets who might be able to give you some suggestions? I hope it will subside. Prednisolone should lessen inflammation unless bess has some allergy to it...never heard of that but who knows. Is she on anything else she could be allergic to. Keep us posted and try some suggestions like the one from Deb about coconut. We use it in Tyler's food each day.


----------



## Rocky's Mom

Did you change her food or treats? Did you give her a different blankie or bed or anything new she may be allergic to? Poor thing, she's been through so much lately. I hope you find the answer soon.


----------



## jackstraw

Hi everyone,

We gave her a bath yesterday afternoon. She seemed to be doing a little better, but she still hides out upstairs under the bed or in the bathroom closet.

Today she's still scratching/licking/biting and is constantly walking and moving.

The vet called to check up and prescribed her another medication- Amantadine, which found the following:

_*Amantadine (Symmetrel)*_
_*There has been recent interest among veterinarians in trying amantadine to control pain in pets. The drug was developed to treat Parkinson’s Disease in humans and also used in the treatment of influenza. It also appeared to be helpful in dealing with chronic back pain in humans. (ref) 
*_
_*
*_
_* It appears to sometimes be effective in blocking chronic pain in dogs and there is also some positive information on its use in cats. But I know of no controlled studies that have been performed. Your vet can try it and you both can decide if it seems to help. Amantadine is not FDA-licensed for use in pets, but you can read the human product label information here.*_

Anyone here have experience with Amantadine?


----------



## mommatee

Poor Bess - my heart hurts for you. Can't imagine going through this.:crying:


----------



## edelweiss

No real advice but you are in my thoughts/prayers. Sometimes it is just good to come and cry w/someone who is hurting! 
Sending you love.


----------



## misstia

I say take her to a different vet, sounds like your vet does not know what to do anymore and keep prescribing drugs for Bess, what is happening to her? why is she doing this to herself? taking all these drugs can not be good for your little dog, poor Bess.

I just would not know what to think at this point, I would feel so helpless!


----------



## Aarianne

Glad she seems to be on the mend again. 

Would you consider using a buster/cone collar for a few days or so and see how it goes? (Or would that interfere with the surgery area?) Since it sounds like it's her lower back area that she's going for now, maybe it's just legitimate itchies near the surgery area that's prompting the chewing/licking? I'm just thinking maybe she's biting and tugging on the skin below the surgery area if that's as close as she can get since the skin isn't attached quite like it is with humans--she can tug from there and it moves the skin around the surgery area a little. When the shaved hair grows in it's terribly itchy for them, plus the itchy sensation you get when you're healing. I'm sure the whole ordeal has been pretty stressful for her as well which is maybe making her go a bit overboard.

Tiff just had surgery about 2 weeks ago to remove a lump next to her spine near her tail and the vet insisted that she wear a cone collar for a full week (she said that, or a onesie, but I knew that she'd chew through a onesie if it itched badly enough). I felt sorry for her in a cone collar, but she got used to it and has been healing up wonderfully. I did take the collar off sometimes, but only when I could watch her and distract her from any licking/chewing.


----------



## uniquelovdolce

i have no help but i will continue praying for ur baby !


----------



## jackstraw

Hi all,

We're still hanging in there. We've not seen much improvement since Sunday.

It's so strange- she doesn't limp or show signs that her back is hurting but she can't stop scratching and licking herself in the same places in her back/legs.

We gave ourselves till today to make a decision. While she's not hurting (or screaming in pain), she seems uncomfortable and agitated. She's not bad enough for us to put her down, but at the same time she's not herself.

We're going to call the specialist tomorrow and give an update. We also have some more questions about our expectations.


----------



## Snowbody

I'm happy that it seems like Bess isn't having pain. I know that dogs can have severe hot spots and itching. Did you start the new drug that the doc suggested? Is Bess on any kind of drug to relax her from scratching?


----------



## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> Hi all,
> 
> We're still hanging in there. We've not seen much improvement since Sunday.
> 
> It's so strange- she doesn't limp or show signs that her back is hurting but she can't stop scratching and licking herself in the same places in her back/legs.
> 
> We gave ourselves till today to make a decision. While she's not hurting (or screaming in pain), she seems uncomfortable and agitated. She's not bad enough for us to put her down, but at the same time she's not herself.
> 
> We're going to call the specialist tomorrow and give an update. We also have some more questions about our expectations.


can you take a video of it so we can see what is happening? Is she on any meds she could be having an allergic reaction too?


----------



## edelweiss

Still hoping/praying for Bess & for your family!


----------



## jackstraw

Hi folks,

We took Bess to our regular vet this morning (at the recommendation of the specialist) and they think this is some sort of allergy or sarcoptic mange/mites.

The vet tested her for yeast and mites, but both came up negative. They said that we should still treat for mites since tests sometimes fail to show they are present.

They gave us some hypo allergenic dog food which we will integrate into her diet within the next 4 days. They also gave us some Selamectin.

*So, here are the meds she's on:*
*1. Tramadol
2. Prednisone
3. Neurotin
4. Benedryl*

We've stopped the Amantadine and are tapering off the Prednisone.

My gut is telling me neither our regular vet or specialist know what's going on. I'm not blaming them or upset, it just sucks.

We love her, but right now she's not herself. She climbs under the bed all day, frequently coming out, running around, scratching and licking herself, then going back under the bed.


----------



## Rocky's Mom

That is awful...I feel your frustration...no one wants to see their baby suffer. I am so sorry she's going through this. It is the same more often than not with the medical profession for humans. Does anyone know what they are doing? It's scary. Hugs and prayers coming your way. rayer:


----------



## misstia

jackstraw said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> We took Bess to our regular vet this morning (at the recommendation of the specialist) and they think this is some sort of allergy or sarcoptic mange/mites.
> 
> The vet tested her for yeast and mites, but both came up negative. They said that we should still treat for mites since tests sometimes fail to show they are present.
> 
> They gave us some hypo allergenic dog food which we will integrate into her diet within the next 4 days. They also gave us some Selamectin.
> 
> *So, here are the meds she's on:*
> *1. Tramadol*
> *2. Prednisone*
> *3. Neurotin*
> *4. Benedryl*
> 
> We've stopped the Amantadine and are tapering off the Prednisone.
> 
> My gut is telling me neither our regular vet or specialist know what's going on. I'm not blaming them or upset, it just sucks.
> 
> We love her, but right now she's not herself. She climbs under the bed all day, frequently coming out, running around, scratching and licking herself, then going back under the bed.


She did not have mites problems before surgery, so why now? I am getting mad with this and she is not even mine...she has been thru so much, the doctors don't even know what is wrong with her, they are just guessing and giving her drugs that don't even make her comfortable, what will it be next? this is so horrible. I wish they would figure it out, this little dog sounds like she will never be herself again.

Please let her go to doggie heaven, she is miserable..that is what I would do at this point, you said Tuesday and we are almost Friday..think of Bess..I am sorry I dont mean any disrespect but enough is enough.


----------



## jackstraw

We had a follow up appointment with the neurologist this morning. We were prepared to tell the Dr we are at the end of the rope.

He asked us if we would be willing to take Bess to a dermatologist. He said her back is healed and this is an anomaly. He said there's usually a 2 month wait to get an appointment w/ the dermatologist but he would get her in today.

So we're taking her to the derm this afternoon. But we don't have the $$ or time to take test after test after test. We have a baby due in April and if we can't get Bess better soon, then we have to let her go.


----------



## Snowbody

jackstraw said:


> We had a follow up appointment with the neurologist this morning. We were prepared to tell the Dr we are at the end of the rope.
> 
> He asked us if we would be willing to take Bess to a dermatologist. He said her back is healed and this is an anomaly. He said there's usually a 2 month wait to get an appointment w/ the dermatologist but he would get her in today.
> 
> So we're taking her to the derm this afternoon. But we don't have the $$ or time to take test after test after test. We have a baby due in April and if we can't get Bess better soon, then we have to let her go.


Praying that this will help Bess.rayer: I know you've really tried everything and this is your last hope. I totally understand and support whatever you need to do to help Bess. That's what it's all about.


----------



## dwerten

jackstraw said:


> We had a follow up appointment with the neurologist this morning. We were prepared to tell the Dr we are at the end of the rope.
> 
> He asked us if we would be willing to take Bess to a dermatologist. He said her back is healed and this is an anomaly. He said there's usually a 2 month wait to get an appointment w/ the dermatologist but he would get her in today.
> 
> So we're taking her to the derm this afternoon. But we don't have the $$ or time to take test after test after test. We have a baby due in April and if we can't get Bess better soon, then we have to let her go.


the dermatologist should be able to get to the bottom of this. Usually back half of dog is flea allergy related so has she had any fleas? One flea bite can last up to 3 weeks in a flea allergic dog so you many not have seen the flea either. 

did you change foods at all prior to this occuring? 

scabies is transferable to humans so if this has been going on a long time then you would have it as my grandma's yorkie had scabies and she got it too. 

I feel so bad for you as you have been through so much Hang in there


----------



## jackstraw

Well we took her to the dermatologist and my wife broke down and told her (the doc) that we are at our wit's end and we have a baby due in 6 weeks.

We asked her if we are delaying the inevitable and if it's time to pull the plug.

The doc reassured us that we aren't at the end of the rope yet and urged us to run a few derm tests as well as a blood test since the last one was in November.

We reiterated that we are worried that with a new baby we won't be able to give Bess the attention she needs. Again, the doc reassured us.

We felt better. Then she left and the nurse presented us the treatment plan.

Talk about overwhelmed. She gave us a one page list of what we have to do daily and weekly. I started to glaze over in shock. Then we went to pay the bill. Maybe I should have asked before the Dr ran these tests, but our bill was $475. That's on top of the $4000 we've already invested.

We leave the vet and we're both dejected. I'm driving and starting to place blame with the vets and there constant rotation and lack of understanding about the financial commitment we've made... but my wife tells me that I'm looking to place blame.

We get home and I cool off. It's been 4 hours and I've had a chance to think about what's gone on the last few months.

I guess I've come to regret our decision to go w/ surgery. We've spent almost $5000 for our pet who is miserable. The vet today gave us shampoos, conditions, topicals, and antibiotics. She also recommended acupuncture, which is out of the picture for us.

I'm spent. My wife is still grasping for straws. We've both agreed that we're not spending one more dollar. No more money for follow up appointments. We're giving it 2-4 weeks and that's it. 

Sorry for the rant- we're just beat.


----------



## Bibu

I know how painful/stressful this situation can and has been for all of you. Maybe with the baby due in 6 weeks you can find a trusted person to take care of Bess and give her the needed treatment/attention until you get settled? Its just a suggestion to alleviate some of the stress off of your shoulders but please, don't give up on her! 

Don't "pull the plug" if the doctor says you aren't at the end of the rope...


----------



## michellerobison

Maybe you might consider rehoming her,a rescue could take her in and find her a place? Sounds like you will have a lot on your plate w/ a new baby and won't have the time required for a sick pet. Maybe it's best for you,your family and Bess.
Others have had to rehome dogs for various reasons and it worked out best for all,especially if Bess is only 10,she could still have 5-6 more years left in her yet.


----------



## Snowbody

michellerobison said:


> Maybe you might consider rehoming her,a rescue could take her in and find her a place? Sounds like you will have a lot on your plate w/ a new baby and won't have the time required for a sick pet. Maybe it's best for you,your family and Bess.
> Others have had to rehome dogs for various reasons and it worked out best for all,especially if Bess is only 10,she could still have 5-6 more years left in her yet.


I didn't even think of this but maybe it's the best solution for everyone. What part of the country are you in? Someone might know which rescue org might work.


----------



## michellerobison

Snowbody said:


> I didn't even think of this but maybe it's the best solution for everyone. What part of the country are you in? Someone might know which rescue org might work.


I only suggest rehoming since you have a baby on the way and have fought this battle for quite a while w/ what sems to be an incompetent vet.
It could happen again after the babay is born,then it will be even harder.
I still think it's coccidia,it sure sounds like it.
If you have any of the meds he gave you should finish giving them to her. But I would consult a different vet asking him about coccidia. coccidia takes a long time to treat,weeks in fact.
It doesn't die off easily,plus all the clean up to prevent so she doesn't become reinfected can be overhelming if you both work and travel and have a baby coming.


----------



## Bailey&Me

michellerobison said:


> I only suggest rehoming since you have a baby on the way and have fought this battle for quite a while w/ what sems to be an incompetent vet.
> It could happen again after the babay is born,then it will be even harder.
> I still think it's coccidia,it sure sounds like it.
> If you have any of the meds he gave you should finish giving them to her. But I would consult a different vet asking him about coccidia. coccidia takes a long time to treat,weeks in fact.
> It doesn't die off easily,plus all the clean up to prevent so she doesn't become reinfected can be overhelming if you both work and travel and have a baby coming.


Michelle, that's a different member who has been having issues with his malt shedding and throwing up, etc. It's on a different thread: http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/52-maltese-health-behavior/111671-help.html I see you posted on there suggesting that it may be coccidia. Hope he sees your post and runs that by his vet. 

This member's malt, Bess has had back surgery and now is having some skin issues on her back as well.


----------



## michellerobison

Ohh you're rign,disregard! I did PM Bubbles dad,,Bubbles was the one w/ the shedding. Mix up on posts.


----------



## Tina

jackstraw said:


> Well we took her to the dermatologist and my wife broke down and told her (the doc) that we are at our wit's end and we have a baby due in 6 weeks.
> 
> We asked her if we are delaying the inevitable and if it's time to pull the plug.
> 
> The doc reassured us that we aren't at the end of the rope yet and urged us to run a few derm tests as well as a blood test since the last one was in November.
> 
> We reiterated that we are worried that with a new baby we won't be able to give Bess the attention she needs. Again, the doc reassured us.
> 
> We felt better. Then she left and the nurse presented us the treatment plan.
> 
> Talk about overwhelmed. She gave us a one page list of what we have to do daily and weekly. I started to glaze over in shock. Then we went to pay the bill. Maybe I should have asked before the Dr ran these tests, but our bill was $475. That's on top of the $4000 we've already invested.
> 
> We leave the vet and we're both dejected. I'm driving and starting to place blame with the vets and there constant rotation and lack of understanding about the financial commitment we've made... but my wife tells me that I'm looking to place blame.
> 
> We get home and I cool off. It's been 4 hours and I've had a chance to think about what's gone on the last few months.
> 
> I guess I've come to regret our decision to go w/ surgery. We've spent almost $5000 for our pet who is miserable. The vet today gave us shampoos, conditions, topicals, and antibiotics. She also recommended acupuncture, which is out of the picture for us.
> 
> I'm spent. My wife is still grasping for straws. We've both agreed that we're not spending one more dollar. No more money for follow up appointments. We're giving it 2-4 weeks and that's it.
> 
> Sorry for the rant- we're just beat.


It is tough to know what to do in a situation like yours. I am on the side of rehoming Bess. You've done everything that you can do. Skin issues can be difficult to address. The veterinarians just haven't put the parts of the puzzle together yet. Of coarse money comes into the equation and your new little one on the way. You will have your hands full with the new baby. It is a decision that has to be made. Don't blame yourself you have done everything you can do without a solution to the problem. A rescue can help and give you peace of mind.


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## lovesophie

I've been thinking about your little Bess a lot, and I'm so sorry to hear that she still can't seem to get comfortable. I agree with Mary's suggestion about surrendering her to a rescue or re-homing her with someone who has the means to pay for her treatment. I know you're frustrated, exhausted, angry with the whole situation, but please consider surrendering/re-homing her. It sounds like both your neurologist and dermatologist believe it's a dermatological issue that's plaguing her and that she can be helped with proper treatment. Good luck to you. Please keep us updated. I'll continue to think of Bess and your family. :grouphug:


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## Snowbody

Was also wondering how Bess is doing and whether you gave re-homing any thought with a baby on the way. I'm pretty sure someone here might be able to match you up to some place that would foster her.


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## jackstraw

Hi all,

Last time I posted here my patience was running on low, but I soon calmed down. I also spoke w/ another vet, who's a family friend, and he advised us to stop all meds taken orally. One of our big issues with this entire process was the rigorous schedule of administering drugs to Bess.

The vet I spoke w/ made the comment that we are treating the symptoms. All those medications could be harming her too. If she has a food allergy, then giving her pills could be causing more harm than good. He also noted that if it wasn't an allergy and was neurological, then we would see that pretty fast since she was not taking meds.

So we stopped all pills last Friday, over a week ago. The first night, she was pretty restless, but since then she's slept more through the night. And lately, she's slept out from under the bed. 

We have noticed that she rarely poops. She went 4 days w/out pooping. She's still very weak. She shakes a lot and pretty much camps out in her kennel.

We're still giving treating her w/ topicals and baths w/ special shampoo/conditioner. But she's still not recovering like we had hoped.

As for giving her away, that's not an option. Either she recovers soon, or we're going to let her go. More and more, it looks like the latter.


----------



## misstia

jackstraw said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Last time I posted here my patience was running on low, but I soon calmed down. I also spoke w/ another vet, who's a family friend, and he advised us to stop all meds taken orally. One of our big issues with this entire process was the rigorous schedule of administering drugs to Bess.
> 
> The vet I spoke w/ made the comment that we are treating the symptoms. All those medications could be harming her too. If she has a food allergy, then giving her pills could be causing more harm than good. He also noted that if it wasn't an allergy and was neurological, then we would see that pretty fast since she was not taking meds.
> 
> So we stopped all pills last Friday, over a week ago. The first night, she was pretty restless, but since then she's slept more through the night. And lately, she's slept out from under the bed.
> 
> We have noticed that she rarely poops. She went 4 days w/out pooping. She's still very weak. She shakes a lot and pretty much camps out in her kennel.
> 
> We're still giving treating her w/ topicals and baths w/ special shampoo/conditioner. But she's still not recovering like we had hoped.
> 
> As for giving her away, that's not an option. Either she recovers soon, or we're going to let her go. More and more, it looks like the latter.


thank you for the update, you and Bess been thru so much. I am glad that she is off all those medecines, you have done everything you could for her and more.
I also would never opt to give my baby to someone else, nobody can take care of her the way you do, that would never be one of my option either. 
So if you decide to let go of Bess, I am behind you, I commend you for all you have done for her.
Jacky

By the way, I have followed this thread since the beginning and I also have a sick maltese, Tia has a neurological problem and it is in her neck, I have been waiting to take her to the University of Florida becasue I fear of the outcome, Tia is having another episode as we speak, I took her to my local vet and he wants me to take her to the U of Florida as they dont know what is wrong with her. I fear very much for her, I hope I wont have to make the desision that you are anticipating now.If something ever happens to Tia I will never own a toy dog again, they just are way too fragile and they can break our hearts.


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## jackstraw

Hi Jacky,

Sorry to hear that you are in a similar situation. Hopefully yours will have a better outcome.

I personally think Bess is suffering from something other than allergies or mites. I still think it's something neurological, but we can't go for second opinions. 

As for you, the odds are in your favor, so don't stress. Hopefully everything will work out! Good luck!!!


----------



## jackstraw

*Update*

Yesterday I followed up w/ vet (family friend) and explained to him that Bess really wasn't improving. I explained her symptoms- excessive scratching, red splotches on back, constant whining (when wife is home), and general temperament. 

I also told him that Bess is missing 2 teeth and her breath is horrendous. He suspected that she may have some dental infection and this could be the cause. He and I worked out a deal and he scheduled a cleaning for this morning.

I just got off the phone with him and he said that her teeth are not bad and that she's worse than I described over the phone. 

He had all four of his other vets look at her and they said they've never seen a case of allergies as bad as Bess.

He said we have two options- 


Change her diet to potatoes/fish/fish oil for now own. No more dog food.
Let her go.
He said we've done all we can do and that we have every right to let her go. 

I just don't see how making her food everyday is feasible- for the rest of her life.

D*mn. I just had to break the news to my wife and he's taking it hard. We both are.

We're going to pick her up today, try to enjoy this weekend with her, and then let her go Monday.

Thanks for everyone's support, suggestions, and everything else.





We took Bess to another vet (friend of family) who we talked to a two weeks ago. He was the one who advised us to stop all meds since it was treating symptoms, not cause.


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## uniquelovdolce

oh jack , im sorry you have to go thru this. my prayers go out to your family.


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## Bailey&Me

I am so sorry Bess is still not feeling better. When the vet did the dental this morning, was he able to run the standard pre-surgery bloodwork and tell if something else is off in her system that's causing the skin issues? Did he say it could be neurological issues that could be causing the itching - or is it definitely allergies? Just my opinion, but if there is a big possibility that it's allergies that are causing this, then it's worth a shot to feed her a limited diet for a while and see if that helps. Many of our members home cook for their dogs (and I have in the past too) and will tell you that it's fairly easy to do. You can cook in batches and freeze enough to last a while. A simple salmon and sweet potato meal would be good, if the vet has suggested a limited diet. If you do not want to cook, you can try limited ingredient canned food. There are a quite a few options out there (my dog is on this diet right now) so if you would like to know more, please feel free to PM me. 

I am truly sorry for all you have gone through with Bess, and understand that this has been a very difficult time for you and your wife.


----------



## misstia

jackstraw,

I support your decision, I beleive it is best for Bess, you have been thru so much.

I will be thinking of you all Monday.

Jacky & Tia


----------



## Snowbody

I'm so sorry about this. I have home cooked for my skin son for 18 years since a bite of the wrong foods (dairy, eggs, fish, shellfish, soy, sesame, nuts, etc) could be fatal and it just became a way of life. I guess that's why I home cook for Tyler...no big deal and so healthy. Takes me 4 minutes each to make each of his two meals a day. I boil chicken legs and veggies about once every 5-6 days (no skill or talent for that) and buy a package of whatever ground meat I'm using for his dinners and make up patties - about 10 of them and freeze them and just take two out at a time in refrig to defrost. That's it. I use supplements that I sprinkle in. 
I know you and your wife is taking this really hard and from what you said home cooking might be too much for you and if so why not look into a rescue/foster who would be willing to try a limited diet? You know from SM that many times the fosters have special needs -- not such a big deal when you're used to it. I'm just trying to think if there's some way of still trying with Bess without the weight being on your shoulders. You've been thru so much and done so much for her, maybe it's someone else's turn? I hope that you don't take this as an attack, I know you love Bess so much but since you said the vet said there's a chance with diet change, it might be time to make that suggestion. I applaud all your efforts and know you've done for Bess much more than many people would even consider doing. :grouphug:


----------



## jackstraw

Sorry about the delayed update...

Last Friday we decided we were going to put Bess down on Monday. Monday morning, after speaking w/ the vet, we decided not to put her down.

We chickened out. The good thing is she seems to not be as agitated and scratches less these past few days.

We also got her to play fetch. Unlike in the past, she now will sleep in our lap.

She's definitely not herself before all of this turmoil, but she seems to be coming around- little by little.


----------



## edelweiss

I have been looking, wondering, praying/hoping/holding my breath----to hear what is up w/you and Bess. I was afraid to open your posting but am so happy that I did. Don't get me wrong---I would not judge you---but I am SOOOOOOO happy to get this news. 
I know you love Bess and that you want her to be well. I will keep praying for tenacity & wisdom for you. 
Please keep fighting for her----we are here w/you.


----------



## Rocky's Mom

I'm so happy to hear Bess is doing a little better. Did you do the diet change? What changes have you made? Give some kisses for Bess from me and the Rockstar. xoxox


----------



## Snowbody

I was so relieved to hear that Bess is still with us and that she might even be rallying a bit. You've all been through so much that I think it's time for some better news and this sounds like things are going in the right direction. Let us know if you need any feeding info that might make things easier. Sending prayers to you and Bess. :grouphug:


----------



## jackstraw

We kept her on the ZD diet, which she's been on for about 4-5 weeks. 

It's been 3 weeks since she's had an medicine, including Prednisone.

I wonder if she had an adverse reaction to the Pred.


----------



## Snowbody

jackstraw said:


> We kept her on the ZD diet, which she's been on for about 4-5 weeks.
> 
> It's been 3 weeks since she's had an medicine, including Prednisone.
> 
> I wonder if she had an adverse reaction to the Pred.


Could be. Prednisone used to make my DS nuts when he was a kid. Steroids have their place but it's a really tough one to take. Glad you're getting things under control and thanks for not giving up on her. :grouphug:


----------



## uniquelovdolce

oh wow im so happy that bess looks like shes coming around , it could very well be the prdnisone that was causing her to itch.. my sons have been on steroids for asthma n it gets them hyper , moody , def not themselves. will continue praying for ur girl.


----------



## SammieMom

WOW, what a heart wrenching story. Hope your wife is doing well and Bess is continuing to recover. :wub:


----------



## Snowbody

How is Bess doing?


----------



## edelweiss

I have also been checking on Bess for an up-date! I keep her in my prayes---and you and your wife as well. When is the baby due? How are things? Just thinking about you all and happy that the medication is not causing issues---hopefully.
Sending hugs.


----------



## jackstraw

Hi everyone,

It's been 7 weeks since we've switched her diet. The last 3 weeks she seems to be scratching less and she doesn't show any pain symptoms, but here is the bad news:



*Weight Loss*
She weighed 8.5lbs in October 2010. Now she weighs 5 lbs.
*Isolation*
She isolates herself to the bedroom and sleeps most of the time.
*Shaking
*She shakes a lot when she's not sleeping. We wonder if this is due to her weight loss.
*Trouble getting into position to poop*
When we take her out to poop (once a day/two days), she has trouble getting into position. She'll try and then seems to quit. We have to make her stay outside until she poops.
*Hair loss
*When brushing her hair, the brush is full of her hair... her coat is thinning too.


It seems food allergies is not what this is. 7 weeks on ZD dog food and no changes (for the good). 

Her body is so boney- her spine is sticking out and her hind area is all bones.

Like I mentioned before, we've decided not to take her to any more specialist or give her up. Either she recovers in a few days/weeks or we put her down.

The only reason we're keeping her around is because she's not requiring a lot of attention. It's borderline selfish that we've kept her around. She gives us the look like she's miserable.


----------



## uniquelovdolce

oh honey , she does sound like shes miserable. i cannot imagine how heartbreaking it is to see her this way. I have never been in ur shoes but i did have a mom battling cancer n i remember towards the end how depressed n miserable she was. so i do symphatize with ur feelings . I know if it were me i would problably let her go , again im not u and only u know what u should do , i will be praying for u both.rayer:


jackstraw said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> It's been 7 weeks since we've switched her diet. The last 3 weeks she seems to be scratching less and she doesn't show any pain symptoms, but here is the bad news:
> 
> 
> 
> *Weight Loss*
> She weighed 8.5lbs in October 2010. Now she weighs 5 lbs.
> *Isolation*
> She isolates herself to the bedroom and sleeps most of the time.
> *Shaking*
> She shakes a lot when she's not sleeping. We wonder if this is due to her weight loss.
> *Trouble getting into position to poop*
> When we take her out to poop (once a day/two days), she has trouble getting into position. She'll try and then seems to quit. We have to make her stay outside until she poops.
> *Hair loss*
> When brushing her hair, the brush is full of her hair... her coat is thinning too.
> 
> It seems food allergies is not what this is. 7 weeks on ZD dog food and no changes (for the good).
> 
> Her body is so boney- her spine is sticking out and her hind area is all bones.
> 
> Like I mentioned before, we've decided not to take her to any more specialist or give her up. Either she recovers in a few days/weeks or we put her down.
> 
> The only reason we're keeping her around is because she's not requiring a lot of attention. It's borderline selfish that we've kept her around. She gives us the look like she's miserable.


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## jodublin

Sending lots of healing hugs to Bess.


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## jackstraw

uniquelovdolce said:


> oh honey , she does sound like shes miserable. i cannot imagine how heartbreaking it is to see her this way. I have never been in ur shoes but i did have a mom battling cancer n i remember towards the end how depressed n miserable she was. so i do symphatize with ur feelings . I know if it were me i would problably let her go , again im not u and only u know what u should do , i will be praying for u both.rayer:



My mom also lost her battle to C... the same week Bess started with the symptoms. When she goes to the bedroom and sleeps all day it eerily reminds me of the last 4 days when my mom was no longer responsive... just waiting to die.

Not to be morbid, but it does remind me of it.


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## silverhaven

I am so, so sorry for all you and little Bess are going through :grouphug: I wish I could help.


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## SammieMom

jackstraw said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> It's been 7 weeks since we've switched her diet. The last 3 weeks she seems to be scratching less and she doesn't show any pain symptoms, but here is the bad news:
> 
> 
> 
> *Weight Loss*
> She weighed 8.5lbs in October 2010. Now she weighs 5 lbs.
> *Isolation*
> She isolates herself to the bedroom and sleeps most of the time.
> *Shaking
> *She shakes a lot when she's not sleeping. We wonder if this is due to her weight loss.
> *Trouble getting into position to poop*
> When we take her out to poop (once a day/two days), she has trouble getting into position. She'll try and then seems to quit. We have to make her stay outside until she poops.
> *Hair loss
> *When brushing her hair, the brush is full of her hair... her coat is thinning too.
> 
> 
> It seems food allergies is not what this is. 7 weeks on ZD dog food and no changes (for the good).
> 
> Her body is so boney- her spine is sticking out and her hind area is all bones.
> 
> Like I mentioned before, we've decided not to take her to any more specialist or give her up. Either she recovers in a few days/weeks or we put her down.
> 
> The only reason we're keeping her around is because she's not requiring a lot of attention. It's borderline selfish that we've kept her around. She gives us the look like she's miserable.


Jackstraw,
I read this entire thread. I am so sorry for Bess and your family. I feel Bess has a disease that was not diagnosed. It is hard to accept when they are this young. We had a 12 yr old Lapsa with same signs you are describing now (not the back problems) and we had to put her down as she finally stopped eating. I believe the Vet said it was her liver, but we never knew for sure. What Bess and my Maggie did (Bess now) could be a generic pattern that happens near the end, I don't know. Sad part was she would perk up at the Vet's then get home and turn in to Bess. It could be so many things. I know how difficult that can be when they can't tell us what hurts. It is obvious how much she is loved and has been a loyal friend all these years as was our Maggie Mae. Whatever you decide, it is your decision as only you know her. I know our family had to finally find the strength to do what was right for her. God Bless you.


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## SammieMom

I wanted to add, since ticks can fall off and we never see them I wondered if Bess could have Lyme disease as it cause nerve pain all over. might explain her symptoms and the biting at herself and loosing her hair, shaking. didn't they say enlarged spinal cord during her back xrays? The Lyme disease website has good info for animals. just a humble guess, as I hope she could get better. :wub:


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## uniquelovdolce

im so sorry . i understand u perfectly 


jackstraw said:


> My mom also lost her battle to C... the same week Bess started with the symptoms. When she goes to the bedroom and sleeps all day it eerily reminds me of the last 4 days when my mom was no longer responsive... just waiting to die.
> 
> Not to be morbid, but it does remind me of it.


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## jackstraw

This afternoon we let Bess go. As much as we wanted to keep her, we knew that the quality of life she's been experiencing these last few months was not what she deserves.

A few days ago I noticed her bottom lip was drooping- like some type of palsy or stroke.

My wife took the lead with this decision as admitted I was becoming complacent with just having Bess around... for selfish reasons.

When we took her to the vet today, the doctor comforted us and said we are making the right decision. She said it had to something "up here", pointing to her head.

I guess something happened after the surgery that changed her. It wasn't allergies... 

But that said, we don't blame anyone. We took the risk with surgery and it didn't work. That's life, I guess.

My wife wanted to be in the room when they put her down... so we took her there, the vet gave her an IV and she sat on my wife's lap while the doc gave her a lethal dose of anesthesia.

I couldn't watch. All of this started the week my mom died in October. It brought back so much emotion. As the Ghost of Christmas Past from Scrooged (w/ Bill Murray) said, "Niagara Falls, Frankie boy..."

It's been a very emotional week- my wife gave birth to a healthy boy. So emotions are high, but with a heavy heart.

Thanks to all who listened, gave advice, and thanks to SM for this platform.


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## Rocky's Mom

I am so very sorry for your loss of your sweet Bess. Your story touches my heart...my prayers are with you and your wife. It will take time for your heart to heal, but the blessing of your son will help you.

God bless your new baby boy...I know how much joy he will bring you both. Please keep in touch. :grouphug:

Dianne and Rocky


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## silverhaven

I am so sorry :crying: we all cry with you. You did all you could. 

Congatulations on your new baby boy. :grouphug:


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## revakb2

I am so very sorry for your loss, but take joy in new your baby. I am happy to hear he is here and in good health.


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## Sylie

I am so sorry.


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## Sylie

Oops.


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## uniquelovdolce

jack im so sorry for ur loss , but take comfort in knowing that u did all u could and that she knew how much u loved her , also now she is pain free. i am very happy that ur baby boy is here , congrats to u and ur wife , and just know that God takes away and but he also gives. i can only imagine the pain u feel but know u did the right thing. Also please dont forget to stop by once in a while n keep us posted , we care .


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## Bonnie's Mommie

I'm very sorry for your loss. You did everything you could, and then made the hard decision when you had to. Bess is happy and pain free now, and you'll carry her love with you forever.


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## KAG

Aww, please accept my condolences. I'm so sorry about beautiful Bess. 

Congratulations to you and your wife and your new baby boy.
xoxoxoxoxoxoxooxoxoxoxo

This is for Bess:


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## maggieh

I am so sorry for your loss - this is a very hard thing to do, as many of us know.

Take comfort in your new little one and enjoy your family!


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## chichi

I am so very sorry for your loss of your sweet Bess. You did everything that you could to try to make her better. Take comfort in your new baby boy.Congrats on his birth.


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## mommatee

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. I'm sorry you had to go through this difficult decision


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## jackstraw

KAG said:


> Aww, please accept my condolences. I'm so sorry about beautiful Bess.
> 
> Congratulations to you and your wife and your new baby boy.
> xoxoxoxoxoxoxooxoxoxoxo
> 
> This is for Bess:
> YouTube - Grateful Dead - We Bid You Goodnight


Thanks to everyone! 

KAG- I little Brent can do a lot!


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## Snowbody

I'm sorry that you and your wife had to finally make a very hard decision.:smcry: You tried so many avenues with Bess and only an owner knows best when their dog is really suffering and not right with no real quality of life. I know that the decision wasn't made easily. 
One door closes and another opens and so I want to welcome your son. I'm sure that Bess is finally at peace with no pain and would want you to keep her in your memory but take delight in the joy of your new baby. Please pass on our condolences and our congratulations to your wife. May Bess rest in peace. :wub::wub:


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## SammieMom

Rest in Peace sweet Bess.


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