# PuppyColor Issues ???



## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

Okay ..I am new and I just found a breeder in my area. 
My question is ....

Are they suppose to have thin hair at 8-9 weeks old ? I have just looked at the pictures sent to me by the breeder and the puppies seem to look dirty ,like the lower hair on the feet areas seems to me stained or something ??? Definatley not bright white

The faces are cute..but the hair is something I'm not sure of at this age..and 
most of the time you see the maltese and the hair is ALL white,.. not much staining or different colors..so does the hair thinken with time ? 

I can see the skin of the puppy in some areas of the picutre..and it is pink.is that 
the correct coloring ? 

Thanks hope this all makes some sort of sense..
Hope you all can help.


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

Can you post the pictures she sent you?


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by chloeandj_@Apr 29 2005, 12:31 AM
> *Can you post the pictures she sent you?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=57884*


[/QUOTE]


How do I post a picture?


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## g1enda1e (Apr 22, 2005)

> _Originally posted by chloeandj_@Apr 28 2005, 09:31 PM
> *Can you post the pictures she sent you?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=57884*


[/QUOTE]

hi there....
I bought my maltese from a petsote and her coat was also thin. I thought i was just a puppy thing, but now that you point it out....i wonder if thats normal?
any suggestions?


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by GirlieGirl+Apr 29 2005, 01:53 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How do I post a picture?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=57887
[/B][/QUOTE]

On the top nav (navigation bar) of each SM page is a link "*How to Post Pics*". Click on that for instructions. This is the bar that is just underneath where you see the paid ads. If you still have questions... let us know.....


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

This is what an 8 week old maltese puppy should look like: 8 weeks


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

Okay so I followed the instructions and posted pictures in the gallery..
But there isnt a choice when I right click that says copy location..I tried it by just coping..that didnt work..

so the pictures are in the gallery if someone can tell me how to post them here or can post them here for me.
Thanks


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by GirlieGirl_@Apr 29 2005, 10:14 AM
> *Okay so I followed the instructions and posted pictures in the gallery..
> But there isnt a choice when I right click that says copy location..I tried it by just coping..that didnt work..
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Click on your thumbnail Gallery photo to get to the enlarged size and then.....
1. Right click the enlarged photo in the Gallery. Then click on Properties. 
2. You will then see the URL of the photo in the pop up box that comes up after the word "Address". "Copy" that URL.
3. Go the regular posting box that you use to post on the forum.
4. You will see above the posting box some formatting symbols such as "B", "I", "U" "Font", etc. On the 2nd line there is one saying "IMG". Click on that and a pop up box will come up. "Paste" the URL of your photo there and it will appear in your posting box. That's all there is to it! Good luck!

The puppies in your Gallery photos look "normal" to me...


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## gigimom (Apr 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Apr 29 2005, 08:53 AM
> *This is what an 8 week old maltese puppy should look like: 8 weeks
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=57946*


[/QUOTE]


Right. When doing research on finding my girls, it was my understanding that they had a thick yet soft coat that somewhat thinned out as they matured. I don't know about thin hair from the start.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by gigimom+Apr 29 2005, 09:26 AM-->
> 
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> 
> ...



Right. When doing research on finding my girls, it was my understanding that they had a thick yet soft coat that somewhat thinned out as they matured. I don't know about thin hair from the start.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=57972
[/B][/QUOTE]

If the puppies have thin hair it might be bad breeding.


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

here is the girl ..if this works
and the two boys ..he says they are from the same litter..look how small that one is, the runt is what he says.

ALSO the littliest oy is the one I wondered about his thin hair..also the girl I was concerned about the staining on her ..does it look normal??


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## nataliecmu (Aug 12, 2004)

That little one is from the same litter?????


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

Thats what he said..he said he is just small or the runt. He also is the same price as the others..so doesnt seem he is trying to pass him off as "teacup" and get more money.

I'm still leary though


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

Too me the puppies in those pictures look like they are only 5 weeks old (5 Weeks). That is huge difference in size between the two boys. 

How did you find this breeder? What is his name? Have you checked to see if he is on the Puppymill List or Broker List?

EDIT: If he uses the word "teacup" it is a major redflag. There is no such thing as a teacup maltese. The Myth About Teacup Maltese Run!!!


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

Oops! Sorry I just reread your post. At first I thought it said he was using the word teacup.


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

I think he called it a runt, not a tea cup. But I would still run from this "breeder". Those poor pups have urine on them. He could have at least cleaned them up for the pictures! Also that one picture of the girl (the second one in the pictures in your post) looks a little strange. Did anyone else think her belly looked funny? It looks bloated or fat or too low to the ground or something. It just doesn't look right. Also those pups have alot of tear staining already. I am no expert but I have never seen pups that young with such bad tear stains. 
You are right the pups look dirty. I would find another breeder.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Do you feel comfortable posting this breeder's name? Maybe we could help you check her out. Does she have a website?

With that said, if you have concerns and see red flags now, trust your instincts and steer clear of this breeder. This puppy will hopefully be with you for 15 years and starting out with the best breeder you can find and afford is the best way to insure that you will have 15 happy healthy years together. 

Maltese are prone to a number of inherited diseases and a careless breeder who does no genetic testing is a recipe for disaster. Take it from me, living with a chronically ill dog is emotionally and financially costly. And most don't get sick right away, when there is still a health guarentee. It can be years later. Lady was 4&1/2 before she was diagnosed with her first of many ailments.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

Ok, just to help I'm going to post larger pics:


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

They are all the same age..same litter.. so he says.. and they are 7weeks old. he said they cannot leave for 3 more weeks and he was VERY firm on that. This was before I saw the pictures . Once I saw them I was like wow the little one is Very little and he explained that sometimes that happens . 

I found him through a friend of a friend who got maltese from him in the past. 

Do they look like most maltese at that age..well besides the smaller one? Is he coloring correct? Thanks


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

After seeing the larger pics I really don't think they are 8 weeks old. Look at the Maltese Puppy Development


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

Let me reread his email to see whta age he said they are.. just to be sure


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## Char-Luv-4-Maltese (Feb 26, 2005)

The little one looks unhealthy to me. Something about it just don't look right. Lack of good food, or health problems . I would think twice if it was me before I bought that one. Just my personal thoughts though!
Teaco


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

That little one does not look healthy at all to me! The hair is very thin on the head. As far as the tummy looks, 8 week old puppies are usually a little fat tummied. They seem to lose their bloat around 10 weeks, in my opinion. Althought the larger sized one doesn't seem to have tear staining or look dirty. But I would not buy one of these. Quality of hair is very high on my list when looking for a puppy. I wouldn't want to start out with problems especially since maltese can have such sensitive skin and other problems. Did he say what the weights of these puppies were?


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Apr 29 2005, 10:24 AM
> *After seeing the larger pics I really don't think they are 8 weeks old.  Look at the Maltese Puppy Development
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58004*


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WOW THEY SURE DONT LOOK ANYWHERE NEAR 7 OR 8 WEEKS.. I think I will call him and ask how old these pictures are..thatnks for that link I will put that in my favs for future refrence.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

No problem

I refer to that page a lot. If you click on the pictures it gives you more info about that age.


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

I forgot you were asking about coloring too. The little on looks like he has some champagne color on tail and ears, that seems to grow out most of the time I believe.


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by chloeandj_@Apr 29 2005, 10:29 AM
> *That little one does not look healthy at all to me! The hair is very thin on the head. As far as the tummy looks, 8 week old puppies are usually a little fat tummied. They seem to lose their bloat around 10 weeks, in my opinion. Althought the larger sized one doesn't seem to have tear staining or look dirty.  But I would not buy one of these.  Quality of hair is very high on my list when looking for a puppy. I wouldn't want to start out with problems especially since maltese can have such sensitive skin and other problems. Did he say what the weights of these puppies were?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58007*


[/QUOTE]
This isnt the one I was concerned about the tear stain or being dirty.. It is the girl that isnt on this post.. I left her picture in the gallery..let me try and post it.. It took me quite a bit of mess ups to finally get the little tiny picture to post iin this thread. 
By the way.. thanks to the member who made the picutures bigger


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by GirlieGirl_@Apr 29 2005, 10:33 AM
> *This isnt the one I was concerned about the tear stain or being dirty.. It is the girl that isnt on this post.. I left her picture in the gallery..let me try and post it.. It took me quite a bit of mess ups to finally get the little tiny picture to post iin this thread.
> By the way..  thanks to the member who  made  the picutures bigger
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58011*


[/QUOTE]
Click on the little picture in the gallery and it will open it in a bigger size. Right click on that picture to copy the image location.


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

Here is the girl.. this is the one I want. Does she look healthy? Is that pee stains?
If it is should I just not get her.? I want to get her so bad..but something doesnt seem right,especially after trying to read most of the post on this entire site.. I just would feel so bad to not get her if for some reason this breeder isnt all that great ..how do you just walk away?

Does this sound crazy? Just be honest..I really do want everyones honest opinion .


By the way could the person who made it bigger help me out again..thank you


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom+Apr 29 2005, 10:35 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Click on the little picture in the gallery and it will open it in a bigger size. Right click on that picture to copy the image location.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58012
[/B][/QUOTE]


OOPs I just saw you instructions..let me try
Thanks


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## nataliecmu (Aug 12, 2004)

That little one makes me want to cry


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## Chelsey (Dec 17, 2004)

If you decide to go with this breeder, I definitely would not go for the smaller one. Even though he said they are from the same litter it does not look that way to me. There is a major different in size. Which mean do me, he is way under developed if from the same litter. Not just smaller. Also the pee stains and tear stains, If he has tear staining now mostly he will have it later on and that will be a lot of work to maintain... just something to think about.


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

her is the girl( bigger pic )..she is dirty..or something?
didnt work..I tryed to make the picture bigger..


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

I just looked at the gallery. The puppy in the last picture is full of pee stains. That could mean lots of intestinal parasites that will need to be treated. Have you actually seen them in person? It is very hard to walk away, I know! So I understand but sometimes you need to ask yourself what are the good qualities this dog has, if you can't come up with very much you need to wait for the next breeder you find.


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Chelsey_@Apr 29 2005, 10:42 AM
> *If you decide to go with this breeder, I definitely would not go for the smaller one.  Even though he said they are from the same litter it does not look that way to me.  There is a major different in size.  Which mean do me, he is way under developed if from the same litter.  Not just smaller. Also the pee stains and tear stains, If he has tear staining now mostly he will have it later on and that will be a lot of work to maintain... just something to think about.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58022*


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Ok thank you ..I do think my gut is feeling funny about it.. thats why I need help..this will be my first Maltese and even with all the research ..I hadnt seen too many young maltese so I need some advice.
Thanks again


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

She has pee stains on her legs, butt, and tail. She has tear stains. She also has lemon colored ears (which should grow out).

Is the breeder listed on the Puppymill List? If so don't buy from them.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

How much is they asking for the female?


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Apr 29 2005, 10:46 AM
> *She has pee stains on her legs, butt, and tail.  She has tear stains.  She also has lemon colored ears (which should grow out).
> 
> Is the breeder listed on the Puppymill List? If so don't buy from them.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58030*


[/QUOTE]

I didnt know there was a list..I will go check. 
Now I feel like I want to throw up.. I feel so bad and sad to have my fears confirmed.









Thank you everyone for helping me..either way I will not get my little one from this man.. I am so disappointed that this man could be neglecting his " beloved babies"
I'm feeiling physically ill over this..Sorry


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

I will not be getting one of his ..I am so dissapointed and I guess I still hope and pray that all of them will be alright.

I'm in shock at all of the" great breeders " who breed only for love and have just "family pets" that I have emailed and recievd great loving emails back about ther dogs...ARE ON THE PUPPY MILL LIST






















!!!!!!!!!!

I dont know where to get my maltese from now.. I had a few choices and they are puppy millers!
I didnt see the breeder of these puppies up ther..but how can I be sure of anything if he is mistreating his animals..He should be on the list!!
Now I have gone from crying to in just 5 second...I'm so MAD!!!
okay..time for me to give him a polite call that I am no longer interested.


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## Pippinsmom (Nov 29, 2004)

All the puppies look very dirty and rather unhealthy to me. You would think that this guy would at least have the intelligence to clean them up a bit before sending out pics. They are full of pee stains and the little girl's rear looks like she has either been sitting in a pee puddle or is having some intestinal issues. The runt is just breaking my heart...I have never seen a puppy that looks that bad. The quality of care that these puppies seem to be receiving (rather NOT receiving) is pretty evident from the pics. 

If you don't feel comfortable with this breeder...take a pass. JMO.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

No problem. This is what we are here for. I'm glad to hear you are going to pass on this breeder. The puppies just don't look like they were breed well. You can do a lot better.

Have you check the breeder list on the American Maltese Association website? Also if you post where you live people might be able to recommend some breeders in your area.


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Apr 29 2005, 11:04 AM
> *No problem.  This is what we are here for.  I'm glad to hear you are going to pass on this breeder.  The puppies just don't look like they were breed well.  You can do a lot better.
> 
> Have you check the breeder list on the American Maltese Association website?  Also if you post where you live people might be able to recommend some breeders in your area.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58039*


[/QUOTE]

Thank you. 
I live in Virginia..but would travel to gt a healthy maltese .I donot care about little or big.. I just want healthy breed standard maltese.


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## Pippinsmom (Nov 29, 2004)

I'm glad you decided to take a pass...you made the right decision.


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

I am glad you are not going to buy from this guy. I just wanted to show bigger pictures of the dogs that I saw pee on.









Look at it's front leg elbow.









And look at this ones bottom. 

These puppies are is sad sorry shape. Poor little guys. Pictures sell, you would think he would have at least cleaned these buys up before taking pictures to show to potential buyers. If he doesn't care enough to clean them to make a sale, imagine how he treats them at other times. Poor babies. Some poor unsuspecting person will buy these guys and have to deal with all their health issues. So sad.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

Here are some sites that might help when you are looking for a breeder:
- Good Breeder Checklist
- How To Buy A Puppy
- What is a Responsible Breeder?
- Buying a Puppy?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

You just made a very smart decision. I know firsthand what it is like to have a puppy mill dog. Lady is diabetic, epileptic, has a heart murmur and inflamatory arthritis. I have spent a fortune on her vet bills. She has almost died twice. Her monthly medications and diabetic supplies alone cost me $150. It's not the money, but the heartbreak and gut wrenching fear of losing her too soon that is so hard to cope with. I wouldn't wish that on anyone else.

On a happy note, I am so glad you came here first and asked your questions and, more importantly, listened. 

And guess what? We just had a discussion about good breeders in the Virginia area and several names were recommended:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3396


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## Chelsey (Dec 17, 2004)

There are a lot of good breeders out there unfortunately they do not all have website so you have do some calling around and leg work. The good thing is you have a great resource right here that can help you in your search.


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## Gizmosmom (Oct 21, 2004)

I'm sorry, I know you're all going to get mad at me (I'm beginning to get used to that) but I have to be the devils advocate....

Yes the puppies are a little dirty and have urine on them... but how do you know that didn't "JUST" happen before he took the pictures? What do the parents look like. Ask for pictures of them. We should all know how difficult it is to keep a puppy clean. Gizmo peed on himself all the time when he was a puppy. I was constanly cleaning him. Even now the two maltese in my family sometimes have problems where they are not completely well and end up with poop stuck to him (which I see to immediately in case some of you think I'm a bad mother). I think she should do some more research on this breeder before deciding against her puppy. They are little maltese, and no matter what is "wrong" with them they are Gods creatures and I just have to say I LOVE them... no matter what. Why is it we are all for "rescue foundations" and helping but we are unwilling to settle for anything that does not look perfect? Looks can be deceiving... that's what vets are for.


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## maltsmom (Feb 10, 2005)

Those puppies are definitely younger than 8 or 9 weeks. It sound like this breeder is trying to get rid of these pups early. I wonder why. Also, I don't think it is possible for there to be such a size difference in the same litter. If they really are brothers, I would think that the little one has some real problems other than just being the runt.


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## maltsmom (Feb 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Gizmosmom_@Apr 29 2005, 12:14 PM
> *I'm sorry, I know you're all going to get mad at me (I'm beginning to get used to that) but I have to be the devils advocate....
> 
> Yes the puppies are  a little dirty and have urine on them... but how do you know that didn't "JUST" happen before he took the pictures?  What do the parents look like.  Ask for pictures of them.  We should all know how difficult it is to keep a puppy clean.  Gizmo peed on himself all the time when he was a puppy.  I was constanly cleaning him.  Even now the two maltese in my family sometimes have problems where they are not completely well and end up with poop stuck to him (which I see to immediately in case some of you think I'm a bad mother).  I think she should do some more research on this breeder before deciding against her puppy.  They are little maltese, and no matter what is "wrong" with them they are Gods creatures and I just have to say I LOVE them... no matter what.  Why is it we are all for "rescue foundations" and helping but we are unwilling to settle for anything that does not look perfect?  Looks can be deceiving... that's what vets are for.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58071*


[/QUOTE]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a dog that is not perfect and you know that going in, but it is another thing when the breeder passes the pups off as healthy or a certain age when they are not. That is deception and I think she should steer clear.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

"I think she should do some more research on this breeder before deciding against her puppy."

She did do more research and found out that this so-called breeder is really a puppy miller. That was enough for her.

It's not looks, perfect or not, that are the issue. It's the fact that these puppies may be carrying the potential for heartbreaking genetic disorders or even sick now. Little puppies should not be covered with urine stains unless they are being kept in the filthy conditions that characterize a puppy mill. 

Puppy mill puppies can also be hard to housebreak and impossible to socialize. They can also become aggressive when they mature. 

I applaud her for making an intelligent decision. And only when everyone does exactly what she did and walks away from these millers or the pet shop window, will no more Maltese be forced to live in filth, unloved, and kept only for the purpose of producing puppies and lining the pockets of puppy millers.


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## Chelsey (Dec 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Gizmosmom_@Apr 29 2005, 01:14 PM
> *I'm sorry, I know you're all going to get mad at me (I'm beginning to get used to that) but I have to be the devils advocate....
> 
> Yes the puppies are  a little dirty and have urine on them... but how do you know that didn't "JUST" happen before he took the pictures?  What do the parents look like.  Ask for pictures of them.  We should all know how difficult it is to keep a puppy clean.  Gizmo peed on himself all the time when he was a puppy.  I was constanly cleaning him.  Even now the two maltese in my family sometimes have problems where they are not completely well and end up with poop stuck to him (which I see to immediately in case some of you think I'm a bad mother).  I think she should do some more research on this breeder before deciding against her puppy.  They are little maltese, and no matter what is "wrong" with them they are Gods creatures and I just have to say I LOVE them... no matter what.  Why is it we are all for "rescue foundations" and helping but we are unwilling to settle for anything that does not look perfect?  Looks can be deceiving... that's what vets are for.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58071*


[/QUOTE]
I agree with your statement. White dogs are very hard to keep clean... Chelsey looked very bad yesterday as well. For me the problem was that I really don't believe the small puppy can be from the same litter and if he is something is wrong. 
I had picked of Chelsey and the smallest puppy in the litter as well. That would only turn out to be 5 pounds... and the puppy was not that small as in this picture. The other issue, I had but did not mention was the shape of the Maltese heads they seem to be a bit longer then the norm. Also the tear staining.... Chelsey did not have tear staining when I got her but now it is really bad, and it is hard to keep clean. So I just wanted to mention that. For some people tear staining is a big issue and required time to keep puppy clean. The reason I agree with your statement is because my breeder as well took very, very bad pictures of her puppy on the web... and I was set back when I saw them. When I went to her home it was a different story... puppy were beautiful and not because she had enough time to fix them up. I went there without notice. Her pictures did not represent the puppies she had at all. But I did a lot of research and even sent an email to CKC for Canada and she was a registered breeder. She came very highly recommended by my vet and other breeders as well. I even confirm she won best in breed.
The best way to tell is to go to the person home and see the puppies…don’t go there with money I your pocket. That way you can go home and think about it. Even a breeder with a great website could have puppies that are not well bred.

Just edited.
If the breeder is on that puppy mill list ... at lest you know not to purcase from them.
There are a lot of good breader you just have to do the home work.


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by maltsmom_@Apr 29 2005, 12:31 PM
> *Those puppies are definitely younger than 8 or 9 weeks.  It sound like this breeder is trying to get rid of these pups early.  I wonder why.  Also, I don't think it is possible for there to be such a size difference in the same litter.  If they really are brothers, I would think that the little one has some real problems other than just being the runt.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58074*


[/QUOTE]



UPDATE ***
The pictures was taken @ 5 weeks , I spoke with the breeder..who is actually not as accurate because he is "helping" out his wife who usually does all correspondance ,but is ill. 

He is going to give them a bath and take current pictures, he apoligized many times. He said this is why he doesnt usually get involved with her puppies ,and that his wife does a better job than him. 

I was incorrect.. the two boys in the one picture are from the same litter. He stated that he(the little guy) is bigger than in the picture but he will not be as big as his brother,he has a smaller structure . 
He did invite me to see them at his home to see that they are healthy.

The girl is now 9 weeks old. and is in a litter of 4 she is the only one out of that litter not spoken for. I origanally thought they were all in the same litter.

He stated that I could contact their vet and also there is a year health contract written with my money returned if any thing happens. 

He also stated that the puppies are not ready to leave his home and will not leave until 2-3 more weeks. 
Also the little tiny one cannot leave until his wife feels he is ready and that could be longer than the other 2. he will not except a deposit on him as of right now until he gets bigger.


He did state that all of the puppies have been wormed and will be wormed again prior to leaving for thier new families. He said that the big belly was just a full belly from eating just prior.

I adressed everything with him and these are his responses..I just wanted to be fair and let everyone hear what he had to say. and I have already made my decision . .


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

I would recommend doing some research on what to look for and ask when you talk to breeders. Then set up a time to go and visit the breeder. They can sound like angels on the phone but when you get there you see what they weren't saying.


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## Gizmosmom (Oct 21, 2004)

Ladysmom, if you read back you will see that she said the breeder was NOT on the list.





> I didnt see the breeder of these puppies up ther..


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## ourprettytessa (Apr 9, 2005)

where can i find the puppymill list?


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

This is the Puppymill List

Here is the Broker list


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## Pippinsmom (Nov 29, 2004)

Girliegirl...the bottom line is if you are not comfortable with the breeder then don't get the pup. You said you had a feeling in your gut that getting a pup from him was not the right thing to do...we have all given you our opinion, you have made your decision. Whatever it was, as long as you are comfortable with it then that's good enough for me.


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## Holliberry (Feb 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Pippinsmom_@Apr 29 2005, 03:13 PM
> *Girliegirl...the bottom line is if you are not comfortable with the breeder then don't get the pup.  You said you had a feeling in your gut that getting a pup from him was not the right thing to do...we have all given you our opinion, you have made your decision.  Whatever it was, as long as you are comfortable with it then that's good enough for me.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I agree. I have been following this and hate to sound so cynical (but I am). Con men are just that, con men. If that is in fact what he is, he is going to have an excuse for everything! If you didnt feel right in the beginning, I wouldnt let him gloss over your feelings with excuses. There are just just "too many" things not right. 

Yes, puppies get dirty. But, I dont care how sick his wife is, dont you think she can at least keep in tune of what is going on and not let him send you such bad photos. I dont think I buy it. Unless you can physically go to this place to see those puppies and how they are cared for, list or none, this is just too risky in my opinion.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Holliberry+Apr 29 2005, 03:22 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree. I have been following this and hate to sound so cynical (but I am). Con men are just that, con men. If that is in fact what he is, he is going to have an excuse for everything! If you didnt feel right in the beginning, I wouldnt let him gloss over your feelings with excuses. There are just just "too many" things not right. 

Yes, puppies get dirty. But, I dont care how sick his wife is, dont you think she can at least keep in tune of what is going on and not let him send you such bad photos. I dont think I buy it. Unless you can physically go to this place to see those puppies and how they are cared for, list or none, this is just too risky in my opinion.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58139
[/B][/QUOTE]
I agree. Go with what your gut is telling you. If something doesn't feel right then move on.


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

Well his explanation sounds ok if he is stating the truth. I know if my husband had to take over with something like this, the puppies would be dirty too! Sometimes some men don't notice things like us women. My husband would also not like to give a bunch of puppies a bath. I have more concerns over the thin hair on the head. If the new pictures at their current age look better, maybe it's something to rethink. The last picture in the gallery actually looks like it might be diarrhea in the hair as it looks like it is more gookie than just pee. I would be curious to know if they have diarrhea. Please post his pictures when he send you new ones. Is this a puppy you are able to go see in person?


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

I agree..... the urine stains are a red flag.... It's best to wait and buy from a breeder you feel comfortable with. For me, that was one of the best parts of getting Kallie and Catcher. Even though Kallie's breeder was just a home breeder who was breeding the family pets for the first time







she was the nicest person and just a pleasure to get to know. And Catcher's breeder was a joy, also. When I want to think of something good (like in the middle of the night when I can't sleep) I'll think of those times when I was waiting for my babies to come home and the whole wonderful experience of dealing with those breeders, waiting for them and finally getting them, etc. 

It's worth waiting to find a breeder who you can feel good about.....


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Gizmosmom_@Apr 29 2005, 12:14 PM
> *I'm sorry, I know you're all going to get mad at me (I'm beginning to get used to that) but I have to be the devils advocate....
> 
> Yes the puppies are  a little dirty and have urine on them... but how do you know that didn't "JUST" happen before he took the pictures?  What do the parents look like.  Ask for pictures of them.  We should all know how difficult it is to keep a puppy clean.  Gizmo peed on himself all the time when he was a puppy.  I was constanly cleaning him.  Even now the two maltese in my family sometimes have problems where they are not completely well and end up with poop stuck to him (which I see to immediately in case some of you think I'm a bad mother).  I think she should do some more research on this breeder before deciding against her puppy.  They are little maltese, and no matter what is "wrong" with them they are Gods creatures and I just have to say I LOVE them... no matter what.  Why is it we are all for "rescue foundations" and helping but we are unwilling to settle for anything that does not look perfect?  Looks can be deceiving... that's what vets are for.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58071*


[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with you on this.... Pictures don't always tell the true story good or bad. Tunder pee's on himself to this day.... I guess it is a male thing his aim is off.


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

even if the breeder is telling u the truth and theres nothing wrong with the puppies , i think buying a puppy from a breeder that can be ur mentor or friend with u the entire life of ur puppy is necessary too, u should be interviewing him/her too and ask lots of quetions and get to know the breeder

having a longterm good relationship with a breeder is also important since they can guide you and help u out with questions u have

also does the breeder sell on a spay/neuter contract?

also i would check out his place first before purchasing


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by chloeandj_@Apr 29 2005, 04:06 PM
> *Well his explanation sounds ok if he is stating the truth. I know if my husband had to take over with something like this, the puppies would be dirty too! Sometimes some men don't notice things like us women. My husband would also not like to give a bunch of puppies a bath. I have more concerns over the thin hair on the head. If the new pictures at their current age look better, maybe it's something to rethink. The last picture in the gallery actually looks like it might be diarrhea in the hair as it looks like it is more gookie than just pee. I would be curious to know if they have diarrhea. Please post his pictures when he send you new ones. Is this a puppy you are able to go see in person?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58152*


[/QUOTE]


You should see how my son is dressed when I am out of town. I came home one night and he was in his camo shorts with his spiderman pajama shirt. This is what he wore to school.  I know that my husband wouldn't get the dates right and that if I was sick he may slip things more than normal. Because not only would have to be picking up the slack from the dogs but also household chores. If your gut said no and when you asked again you didn't get satisfactory responses to your questions then yes I would agree walk away. But it seems to me he is more than willing to open himself and his dogs up to your inspection. I personally have to remember not to judge people and situations to quickly, without knowing all the facts. Its very easy to condem someone because something looks like it could possibly be a certian way. I say go check him out if you still dont' feel comfortable then walk if you do and he answers all your questions and puts your fears to rest congrats on your new puppy.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I agree that you should find a breeder whom you trust and feel comfortable with. Breeders really should be for the life of the dog. They should be a mentor and friend you can call with any questions about your pup. It really makes a big difference, especially if this is your first Maltese. A solid relationship with your breeder can be one of the best tools you will ever have.


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by chloeandj_@Apr 29 2005, 04:06 PM
> *Please post his pictures when he send you new ones. Is this a puppy you are able to go see in person?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58152*


[/QUOTE]

ANOTHER UPDATE

He just sent me new pictures an stated, "I bathed them .. ..they have just eaten and are still alittle messy . 

The girl does have some cream on her and I got a close up so you can see it, but you will see it better when you come down. 

The little guy his hair is thin now ,but my vet says it should thicken up" .


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

Little boy after bath


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

Girl after bath


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

girl again


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

just out of curiosity, i thought giving young puppies baths at a young age was dangerous since they are so small i dunno, ive always thought that way

puppies look healthier than the other photos tho


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

Does he have the parents, did he send you their picture? Is that puppy's ears standing up? I don't think that is normal is it? They do look healthier, even the tiny one looks better. I can't believe how small that little one is, did he say how much he weighs? They still have hair stains, they will grow out. 

I just hope that he isn't a broker. In the last two years I have had the opportunity to talk to dozens and dozens of breeders. I got my self a puppy and I helped my mom get two puppies. Out of all the people I talked to only two were men. One was a broker, one was an obvious puppy mill. Both new hardly anything about the puppies and tried to give me obvious phony stories. I'm not saying that men can't be maltese breeders, I'm just being suspicious. I think you can get a real sense for how these pups are cared for and if this guy is truthful if you visit his home and ask questions face to face. If you walk into their home and it stinks and pups are filthy and the pups living quarters are disgusting, then you know this is not a good thing. See if he minds you calling his vet where he got them cared for. Make sure they have been given a clean bill of health by the vet. I've met a breeder at the vet before to be present for the vet check.


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

> Does he have the parents, did he send you their picture? Is that puppy's ears standing up? I don't think that is normal is it? They do look healthier, even the tiny one looks better. I can't believe how small that little one is, did he say how much he weighs? They still have hair stains, they will grow out.
> 
> 
> Yes they do have the parents. He has invited me to come to their home ,he said that I would be able to make a better decision in person. And to see the parents .


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## Gizmosmom (Oct 21, 2004)

My other maltese, Benji has ears that stick up. He is 16 years ol now and has never had health problems. Some of them just have ears that stick up... I saw his parents and he is thoroughbred. It's actually quite cute because he looks like a little gremlin!

Girlie, the pictures look good and it sounds like this guy is willing to do whatever it takes to make sure you are at ease. I say go and look at the parents, meet the puppies and put your mind at ease.







> > Does he have the parents, did he send you their picture? Is that puppy's ears standing up? I don't think that is normal is it? They do look healthier, even the tiny one looks better. I can't believe how small that little one is, did he say how much he weighs? They still have hair stains, they will grow out.
> >
> >
> > Yes they do have the parents. He  has invited me to come to their home ,he said that I would be able to make a better decision in person. And to see the parents .
> > <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58308


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

> _Originally posted by GirlieGirl_@Apr 30 2005, 11:57 AM
> *Yes they do have the parents. He  has  invited me to come to their home ,he said that I would be able to make a better decision in person. And to see the parents .
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58308*


[/QUOTE]

I still don't think you should even consider these pups. Of course he thinks you can "make a better decision in person" because he knows you will fall in love with these cute fur balls and not want to leave them. That's the hardest part. Seeing a cute ball of fluff and not buying one. 

If you insist on seeing these pups go prepared. Print up the list of questions to ask him and look out for bad signs (dirty conditions and so on). And please don't bring ANY money. Not cash, a checkbook, or even a credit card because you will fall in love with them and want to pay the deposit on the spot. You can bring a camera if you want and take pictures of everything so when you go home and think about it you can look back on the pictures to make a better decision. And remember once you see these pups you might not be able to trust your "gut instinct" because your judgment will be clouded by these cute pups. 

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Print this and check everything off before you leave.
Check List


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I am jumping into this a little bit late. In all honesty (please no one attack me), the pups don't look like they are in terrible conditions to me. I have friends who are breeders and they can get urine stains like that if they are not cleaned up daily! If the puppies are living in a pen, which they should be, they frequently urinate and step in it as they are so active. If the breeder is not constantly cleaning up after them, they easily get dirty.

The tan on the ears are extremely common. Many show dogs are born with it too. Tear staining is also very common. What you see in magazines and dog shows are not a reflection of a "pet quality" Maltese. It takes hours and hours of grooming to get coats to look like how they do in magazines and books.

A thin coat is not necessarily a sign of bad breeding. Sparkle has a thin coat and she comes from great lines. It's just like humans. Some of us have fine thin hair and others have very thick hair.

I am not saying this breeder is good but the pups don't look like tortured souls or dying and sickly. We cannot make a judgement by looking at these photos. You will need to visit the breeder. Ask about the medical records and shot records. See the actual conditions of his home. To me, he appears to be an honest breeder.

Hoenstly, I would rather see dirty photos than fake photos that are doctored to make them look perfect.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

Well, I had to laugh when he explained that his wife was ill and he had taken over...that is exactly what would happen at our house...most men just aren't as attentive to details as the women are. You should see the way my husband lets my skin kids leave the house when I am not there?!







So I could totally relate to that reasoning/excuse that he gave.









IMO- maybe he is giving you a line of bull-and maybe he is really being honest. Only you can decide that. The second set of pictures really didn't look all that bad...and it does seem like he is making a valiant (sp?) effort to set your mind at ease. 

Good luck with your decision-you will love your new pup, no matter what you decide!!


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

IMO- maybe he is giving you a line of bull-and maybe he is really being honest. Only you can decide that. The second set of pictures really didn't look all that bad...and it does seem like he is making a valiant (sp?) effort to set your mind at ease. 

Good luck with your decision-you will love your new pup, no matter what you decide!!












Thank you ~ I apprectiate your honesty , I will keep you all informed


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

NP- I look forward to hearing back from you after you visit...when are you going?


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## GirlieGirl (Apr 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by CharmyPoo_@Apr 30 2005, 12:49 PM
> *I am jumping into this a little bit late.  In all honesty (please no one attack me), the pups don't look like they are in terrible conditions to me.  I have friends who are breeders and they can get urine stains like that if they are not cleaned up daily!  If the puppies are living in a pen, which they should be, they frequently urinate and step in it as they are so active.  If the breeder is not constantly cleaning up after them, they easily get dirty.
> 
> The tan on the ears are extremely common.  Many show dogs are born with it too.  Tear staining is also very common.  What you see in magazines and dog shows are not a reflection of a "pet quality" Maltese.  It takes hours and hours of grooming to get coats to look like how they do in magazines and books.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Thank you for that point of veiw. I do appreciate it as this is a big decision for me .

Thank you all for your thoughts I know you are all just concerned.


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## Maxismom (Mar 24, 2004)

when i see pictures of things like this i would take all of them what if she did take one of them and made them healthy i mean where is this breeder located 
makes me sad if i had a huge house i would have a million maltese 
i think all of them were very cute


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## Gizmosmom (Oct 21, 2004)

> _Originally posted by CharmyPoo_@Apr 30 2005, 12:49 PM
> *I am jumping into this a little bit late.  In all honesty (please no one attack me), the pups don't look like they are in terrible conditions to me.  I have friends who are breeders and they can get urine stains like that if they are not cleaned up daily!  If the puppies are living in a pen, which they should be, they frequently urinate and step in it as they are so active.  If the breeder is not constantly cleaning up after them, they easily get dirty.
> 
> The tan on the ears are extremely common.  Many show dogs are born with it too.  Tear staining is also very common.  What you see in magazines and dog shows are not a reflection of a "pet quality" Maltese.  It takes hours and hours of grooming to get coats to look like how they do in magazines and books.
> ...


[/QUOTE]


Wll said!


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> I am jumping into this a little bit late. In all honesty (please no one attack me), the pups don't look like they are in terrible conditions to me. I have friends who are breeders and they can get urine stains like that if they are not cleaned up daily! If the puppies are living in a pen, which they should be, they frequently urinate and step in it as they are so active. If the breeder is not constantly cleaning up after them, they easily get dirty.
> 
> The tan on the ears are extremely common. Many show dogs are born with it too. Tear staining is also very common. What you see in magazines and dog shows are not a reflection of a "pet quality" Maltese. It takes hours and hours of grooming to get coats to look like how they do in magazines and books.
> 
> ...


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## puppylucy (Jan 8, 2005)

lucylou- could you maybe post those pics for us? it seems like it would be interesting to see


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

I agree with Charmypoo and Lucylou. There is a lot of overreacting. You cannot judge on pictures only. You have to see the place. You would be amazed what the show people are doing to make their malts look that way. Breeding alone does not give them that beautiful look, there is a lot of work involved and tricks like straightening the hair with a hot iron, using antibiotic for the tear staining, I even heard (don't know if this is true) that some put black shoe paste on the nose. All those beautiful Malteze pictures are taken right after grooming and combing. I bet that 10 minutes later when they have their freedom to rump again, they don't look as beautiful. And men are men, some are better then others about taking care of things. If his wife is sick, he is probably overwhelmed with all the tasks he has to do.


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## puppylucy (Jan 8, 2005)

i've been reading this thread w/ mixed feelings, but i think you should go visit the home and see what you think. the pictures didn't look HORRIBLE to me, but then i'm no expert







they certainly looked nice all spruced up. that little boy is so cute!







keep us updated, please.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by puppylucy_@May 1 2005, 07:49 PM
> *lucylou- could you maybe post those pics for us? it seems like it would be interesting to see
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58718*


[/QUOTE]

I haven't mastered posting pictures yet. Just take my word for it. My dog is white when sitting in my lap, but when her picture came out, it looks like she is grungy.
And, on another note, with some people going off on tangents, I would hate for someone to take a bad picture out of context and go saying "you know that breeder...... who shows her dogs, well I have a picture of her dog and it's brownish colored. 
Last night, as I do many nights, I groomed my pups I plan to show. They are ice white, just like their parents, but until they were about three months old, they had buff on them. It doesn't worry me because I've seen that some of the ones with buff early on have the best pigment later. These pups were raised in my guest bathroom without benefit of a window, and they had great pigment by two weeks. On the other hand, I have a litter by my other champion who are seven weeks, and they were raised in the sun room. They have been ice white since birth, but have been slower in developing pigment.
Now, for all of you who don't have anything else to do, I can always use help in brushing pups. Just joking as I find brushing my babies to be very theraputic.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by MalteseJane_@May 1 2005, 07:51 PM
> *I agree with Charmypoo and Lucylou. There is a lot of overreacting. You cannot judge on pictures only. You have to see the place. You would be amazed what the show people are doing to make their malts look that way. Breeding alone does not give them that beautiful look, there is a lot of work involved and tricks like straightening the hair with a hot iron, using antibiotic for the tear staining, I even heard (don't know if this is true) that some put black shoe paste on the nose. All those beautiful Malteze pictures are taken right after grooming and combing. I bet that 10 minutes later when they have their freedom to rump again, they don't look as beautiful. And men are men, some are better then others about taking care of things. If his wife is sick, he is probably overwhelmed with all the tasks he has to do.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58719*


[/QUOTE]

A dog in full coat would have some restrictions so they don't get that coat messed up ten minutes later. This doesn't mean they aren't loved, get to sleep with us from time to time, and have play time. Often they are kept in oil between shows. Wraps are needed as they grow. If you let them play with others without supervision, they may take a hunk out of the other one. Then all that time growing hair is down the drain. I have a friend who got both majors and all but two points on her boy by seven months, then gave him a chew stick. He ate the hair off his leg while chewing it, so he has been out of the ring almost a year, growing his hair out again. It's a short time out of their life when these restrictions are needed, and I've found that most dogs love the show experience. One of my friends just finished one at ten months. He went to five shows, and got major wins four of the five days to finish. I have pulled one who didn't enjoy it as I didn't want her to be involved in something she didn't enjoy. But for the most part, they are beautiful, and they know it, and want to show off. And, mine love to be brushed.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I can't bring myself to seperate Sparkle from the other kids. She also sleeps in my bed. As a result, her coat doesn't look nearly as good as it should. Cookie was pulling on her top knot and ripped out a chunk of hair


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Jonathan use to rip out Mikey's face furnishings. He leaves them alone if I band them.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Lol Jackie, Jonathan did not like Mickey's mustache ?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Janine, LOL Maybe it is 'stache envy? I keep the corners of Woo's eyes clipped because he doesn't have any lower tear ducts and will get skin infections from the moisture if not kept clear and clean. I trim his face fairly short since it just gets so wet.


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