# Science diet



## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

Ollie's vet promotes Science Diet puppy/dog food. They gave me a free 5 lb bag. Seems like so many dog owners talk about Science diet. The first two ingredients are corn meal and meat bi-products!!! I don't get it! The two first ingredients you DON'T want to see listed first. Poor quality.

Ollie was given Chicken Soup for the Puppy's Soul food by the breeder. I had never neard of it. Supposedly it's ranked #4 top dog food and is all natural--the list of ingredients is impressive. So that's what I'm continuing to give him.

Although a few of you in another thread mentioned that your dog's poop doesn't smell. Ollie's does. Is that not a good sign? As you know he's 15 weeks and weighs over 5 lbs so he's not a starving pup...


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

I'm running late for work and don't have time to do a search, but do a search on "Science Diet" here and you'll find lots of discussion. Most of us aren't fond of it. Here is an anlysis I did of it over a year ago. They may have changed their formula since then:

*Ingredients - Science Diet Puppy Kibble*
Ground Whole Grain Corn (source of natural digestible carbohydrate & lutein), Chicken By-Product Meal (source of natural protein), Soybean Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of vitamin E, and citric acid), Dried Beet Pulp (source of natural dietary fiber), Chicken Liver Flavor, Dicalcium Phosphate, Brewers Rice, Fish Oil (source of natural DHA), Flaxseed (source of natural omega-3 fatty acids & alpha-linolenic acid), Soybean Oil (source of natural omega-6 fatty acids & linoleic acid), Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamins (L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of stabilized vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (vitamin B1), Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (vitamin B6), Riboflavin (vitamin B2), Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Potassium Chloride, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a source of vitamin E, and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene (an antioxidant), Rosemary Extract. 

The ingredients that come before the first oil ingredient are the ones that are the most abundant in the food. Here is my take on it. 

1st Ingredient Corn: Often an allergin; A protein source should be the first ingredient
2nd Ingredient: Chcken By-Product Meal--- I woudn't feed my dogs anything with by-product in it
3rd Ingredient Soybean Meal: Often an allergin
Where is the whole chicken and non-by-product chicken meal? 

Below are ingredients for Chicken Soup... can you see the difference between that and SD. This one looks much better to me.









*Ingredients - Chicken Soup Puppy Kibble*
Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, ocean fish meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), white rice, oatmeal, millet, potatoes, egg product, tomato pomace, duck, salmon, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, salmon oil (source of DHA), choline chloride, dried chicory root, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-carnitine, Enterococcus faecieum, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Saccharomyces cerevesiae fermentation solubles, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

i agree, chicken soup sounds better....


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## louis' mom (Jul 7, 2006)

i have louis on chicken soup now - but my local pet store (bark) has all kinds of all natural foods - really high end. the owner gave me lots of samples and louis likes alot of them but his favorite seemed like Timberwolf - bison meat. So i might mix/alternate food - he likes variety and he doesn't get sick so i started that.


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## Morkie4 (Oct 13, 2006)

My present vet and my previous vet also recommend Science Diet..........but I feed mine Natural Balance Venison/brown rice and the duck/potato. Science Diet was highly esteemed at one time and I fed my sheltie it for a while but there are products out there now that are better suited to what I want my pups to eat. By-products are a big NO NO on my list.


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

> The ingredients that come before the first oil ingredient are the ones that are the most abundant in the food. Here is my take on it.[/B]


Yup the ingredients are still the same (from what I recall from memory looking at the Sciene Diet bag yesterday) Actually, typically the first ingredient is the most abundant and then the rest of the ingredients are listed in decending order by amount. So the most abundant ingredient is the corn meal--and who knows exactly how much of it is corn meal--is it 30% 50% more? Makes you wonder. It shouldn't be the first ingredient to begin with. It's basically a big filler with hardly any nutrients.

I'm a religious food label reader having been a fitness instructor in the past I know about diet, etc. It's amazing the pet foods out there containing fillers and artificial stuff. I'm a firm believer whether you're a person or an animal that what you put in is what you get out (please remind me of this when they're passing around the Lindt chocolates at Christmas







)

Funny thing too is that the "specialty" dog foods like the Chicken Soup are the same price as the lesser quality ones...

And who knows--our parents owned dogs who ate that stuff (Purina, etc.) and they lived long lives. But again, why not buy the best and hope for the best--what you put in is what you get out (Ollie's smelly poop and all 5 lbs of him...







)


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

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I've been a food-label reader for eons, as well. I mostly buy only organic for myself, which is why I like the Newman's Own for K& C since the chicken is free range and the other items are organic. 

In dog food, the ingredients before the first fat are the most abundant so those are the ones you want to pay particular attention to and as you can see in the SD list, they aren't very impressive.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

My dogs and cats have always done well on Science Diet with less poop and less smell.

My dogs do great on Chicken Soup, Royal Canin, and Iams. But my cats did well on Nutro, and my dogs had smelly poop and tear stains with Nutro. 

I think there are definitely foods that fall into the poor/good/better/best categories...but many times it depends on the dogs and with me it is unfortunately availability. I liked Chicken Soup and Royal Canin, but they are an hour or more away which is not always convenient. I ordered from online sites a few times, but the shipping is ridiculous and it took way too long to get here! Mine do just as well on Iams and I can get it in my town-even if it doesn't fall into the best category. When I get to a Petsmart, I now pick up a bag of Royal Canin to mix in as a treat...and if I happen to drive way out to where the Chicken Soup is sold, I do the same with it. I wish some people around here would carry it, but I haven't been able to convince them yet.


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

My vet heartily recommends Science Diet and sells it in the surgery. The packets are piled to the ceiling. Oh yes and it seems our vets earn a greater bonus on sales of this brand than the others available here.








My two are on James Wellbeloved kibble (for the time being - until I find a supply of Royal Canin) and home-cooked food.


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## abbey (Apr 4, 2005)

Abbey has always been on Chicken soup but I'm looking to find her a dog food with a little bit more of a variety. I've seen some dog food with different colored kibbles - but does anyone know of a good one that won't have any of the ingredients that our malts are not supposed to have?









Here's a list of what our pet store has- I also have a Kroger near by. 
Alpo 
Bil Jac 
California Natural 
Canidae 
Chicken Soup 
Diamond 
Eagle Pack 
Eukanuba, Eukanuba Naturals 
Iams 
Innova 
Merrick 
Natures Recipe 
Nutro Max, Nutro Natural Choices, Nutro Ultra 
Pedigree 
Pro Plan, Pro Plan Selects 
Purina, Purina Beneful 
Purina One 
Royal Canin Breed Specific (I didn't see a maltese in this one- what does everone buy?)
Science Diet, Science Diet Advanced Protection, Science Diet Natures Best 
Solid Gold 
Wysong 

Thanks everyone!


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> I'm looking to find her a dog food with a little bit more of a variety.[/B]


Try mixing a couple brands. For a long time I mixed two kinds of Royal Canin and Chicken Soup.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> ...but many times it depends on the dogs and with me it is unfortunately availability. ...they are an hour or more away which is not always convenient. I ordered from online sites a few times, but the shipping is ridiculous and it took way too long to get here![/B]


i'm in the same situation....









and i wanted to add that i love the pic of your children with your fluffs in your siggy.


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

Boo was on SD when I got him,but he would barely eat it. I did switch to a better food. He eats Natural Balance now & it's the only brand so far that he hasn't gotten bored with. It's not available in my small town, so I pick it up at the Petco in a larger town about 30 miles away. Boos vet sells SD & Proplan, but he's never suggested I buy it. He always asks what brand Boo is eating & simply says, " good choice", so I am assuming that the brands he sells are strictly a source of income & although they are not what I consider the best, they are not the worst.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

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Thanks....


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## thinkpink (Sep 25, 2004)

I had a vet that told me she needed to be on Science Diet after she had an upset stomach several times. I sucked it up and bought a bag and Bella LOVED it. I call it the McDonalds of dog food. After a week or two of her being on it she started to have horrible tearstains and she started to stink! Not just her poop stinking, but she smelled awful. I could smell her before she even got in the room. So, I got off that and have been on Royal Canin for quite some time. I've tried some of the healthier brands but she just won't touch those.


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## Tanner's Mom (May 27, 2005)

Whole Dog Journal published a list of great dog food last December. They have a recommended list of dry & canned food and a not recommended list. It's called Top Dog Foods for Total Wellness and I think you can go to their website and order the issue. It is well worth the $12 or whatever because it is very educational telling you what to look for, what is good, what it all means.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

From what I understand, Hills, the makers of Science Diet, heavily funds vet schools which is why so many vet offices carry their products. When it comes to prescription diets, I think it's only Hills or Waltham, so it's easy to see why they choose Hills. As far as nonprescription diets go, though, there are a lot better choices out there.

This is a neat little feature that let's you compare pet foods:

http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=comp-wiz

And if you haven't already read this article from the Animal Protection Institute, I think every pet owner should:

http://www.api4animals.org/facts?p=359&more

I feed Lady Natures Variety Prairie now, but she has special dietary needs because of her diabetes. She does best on the new high protein, low/no carbs diets with lots of green beans for added fiber. Prairie is great food, though, and comes in alternative protein sources for those of us with allergic dogs.

http://www.naturesvariety.com/


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

> I had a vet that told me she needed to be on Science Diet after she had an upset stomach several times. I sucked it up and bought a bag and Bella LOVED it. I call it the McDonalds of dog food. After a week or two of her being on it she started to have horrible tearstains and she started to stink! Not just her poop stinking, but she smelled awful. I could smell her before she even got in the room. So, I got off that and have been on Royal Canin for quite some time. I've tried some of the healthier brands but she just won't touch those.[/B]


lol about the McDonalds of dog food!

That's funny that you mention Bella smelled funny on it. Cam used to be on Pro Pac Puppy and he was stinky all over but his poops didn't seem to stink as much as Cam's. Ollie has a nice smell to him all the time--but his poop does smell icky.

The breeder had something else mixed in with the Chicken Soup food--it looked like little stick or log shapes instead of round kibble. It was a different brand of something and I forgot to ask her what it was. I'm hesitant to email her during this busy week--I've already had to email to ask a few other questions and I don't want to bug her. Anybody know what kind of puppy food is shaped like that?


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## abbey (Apr 4, 2005)

Thanks LadysMom!









Royal Canine says it has Beet Pulp - wouldn't that be bad for tear stains? I've stuck with Chicken Soup because I'm not sure what ingredients I need to avoid!


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

there's a debate whether beet pulp really causes tear stains. beet pulp has no color, not like the vegetable. and the sugar is removed. it's a great source of fiber.

and i don't believe science diet is really all that bad. massimo was on the lamb/rice a while ago. he did fine.


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## wagirl98665 (Jan 5, 2006)

See everybody has a different opinion on foods so I guess you have to decide for yourself. When I got Mikey the lady had him on Puppy Chow w/mothers milk and I kept him on that for a long time. Then when Mia came along her breeder had her on Science Diet so they both got Puppy Chow as dry food and the wet food was Science Diet, two brands at once. Then Buddy came along and he was on Puppy Chow also so he ate Puppy Chow and Science Diet too. Recently I took them off of both those brands and now only feed them Royal Canin and that's what I'll stick to, they love the stuff. They do occasionally like wet food at night so I do need to find something good for them. Been cooking them chicken for their evening meal, but not every night. This food thing can make you







!!!!!!!!! A lot of people never give dog food a second thought and assume that if there's a TV commerical for it, it must be good stuff. I never thought about dog food in terms of good or bad as long as it was a name brand, but since this forum I know alot more about those things. Thanks People!


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

I feed V'doggie Natural Balance venison and brown rice or duck and sweet potato. Sometimes I mix a bit of both together. She seems to really like this food and since we've started her on it...no more stinky poop, no more tear staining, and absolutely solid well formed stools. When I asked the vet about it, her response was that a single source protein and single source carb is much easier for dogs to digest and less likely to cause a food related allergy. We've been using it for months now.


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## beckybc03 (Jul 6, 2006)

I was told by a boutique pet shop (not one that sells animals) that Merrick had been rated the highest of all natural foods by some "independent" study, whatever that means! So...I decided that Lilly was going to eat Merrick before I even got her and that is what she eats because she eats what I tell her too







But no seriously, she eats fine, some days more than others, and I know that she is getting good food. I don't feed her anything else except her Zukes treats. She needs to be switched to adult food soon and I am going to stick with Merrick. The only problem is that there are so many different flavors! 

And her poop does not really smell just in case you wondered!


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

> there's a debate whether beet pulp really causes tear stains. beet pulp has no color, not like the vegetable. and the sugar is removed. it's a great source of fiber.
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> and i don't believe science diet is really all that bad. massimo was on the lamb/rice a while ago. he did fine.[/B]


You're right--it really can't be "bad" or else they couldn't sell it. I just think there's better choices out there--same as people food


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

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Exactly.... it is a matter of degrees. Lower quality food will likely keep them alive but just like with us... real ingredients rather than fillers will be more healthful. If there is food that is filled with quality ingredients vs. one that is filled with cheap fillers and cheap ingredients, for me it is a no brainer which ones K & C will get.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

if u really want to educate urself on animal nutrition and dont know who to trust...u can always pick up this book:










and get info from certified people and not food companies


<span style="font-family:Times">I will end here…I know many wont agree, and that's ok….i just thought a vet needed to state their side of the story….


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Jaimie, I am sorry if I offended you, but Hill's contributions to vet schools are no secret. They are detailed on their website:

http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/company_in...D=1166590382453

According to their website, they do teach.

College Visits

We spend time teaching you and learning from you. We provide you with lectures on small animal clinical nutrition from Hill's Veterinary Affairs Managers and/or the Mark Morris Institute. A wide range of subjects are offered, including preventive health care through nutrition and dietary recommendation for numerous disease indications.  

If you look on page two of this document, you will see the slogan "Support Us Because We Support You":

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:tyvED...t=clnk&cd=2

I am certainly not implying that this is somehow unethical, but just stating a fact.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

not offended...just stating that not ALL vets had hills teach them..i was a lucky one to get it from a non biased source


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## gottagettamaltee (Dec 1, 2005)

> I feed V'doggie Natural Balance venison and brown rice or duck and sweet potato. Sometimes I mix a bit of both together. She seems to really like this food and since we've started her on it...no more stinky poop, no more tear staining, and absolutely solid well formed stools. When I asked the vet about it, her response was that a single source protein and single source carb is much easier for dogs to digest and less likely to cause a food related allergy. We've been using it for months now.[/B]


you know what.. i've had Bentley since Saturday and his breeder had him on Iams. She gave me a sandwhich baggie of it and i still have some of it left and it's Tuesday night. Bentley doesn't seem to like it and his stool starts out somewhat firm but at the end its not and it gets stuck to his bottom. and then when i clean his bottom, i have to cover my face or i gag because of the aweful smell! i took him to the groomers yesterday and already today he's got that kind of stinky dog smell to him. i think i will try natural balance and see if he likes it better. he's only gone #2 twice. so maybe this will have him eating better and less stinky outside and in. yay something new to try!


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> if u really want to educate urself on animal nutrition and dont know who to trust...u can always pick up this book:
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well, i do have to say that i would most likely listen to a vet source that was also educated in nutrition. 

it's not like jaimie would come on here and lie to get us to buy a specific brand. she is educated in veterinary medicine and she is educated in nutrition as well. she's only looking out for our dogs.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

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This is a good example in the difference in dogs...because my boys have hard, not-so-smelly poops on Iams-and i am pleased with it.
Where others are feeding Nutro with good results, and neither of mine did well on Nutro.
It is trial and error for all of us, and each dog is different.


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## Morkie4 (Oct 13, 2006)

> I feed V'doggie Natural Balance venison and brown rice or duck and sweet potato. Sometimes I mix a bit of both together. She seems to really like this food and since we've started her on it...no more stinky poop, no more tear staining, and absolutely solid well formed stools. When I asked the vet about it, her response was that a single source protein and single source carb is much easier for dogs to digest and less likely to cause a food related allergy. We've been using it for months now.[/B]


Those are the exact same dog foods that I feed my furbabies and they are doing great on it! I ditto everything you said!


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