# Home Cooking for fluffs



## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

If you are interested in home cooking for your dog, please know that it can be done very successfully. There are thousands and thousands of people who home cook for their dogs with very good results. If your desire is to ensure that your dog eats good nourishing food that you prepare yourself, then go for it and don't get discouraged. 

Yes, you do need to ensure that the recipe you use is nutritionally balanced. There are several different ways to do this. You can buy a book from a reputable author/vet nutritionist, you can buy a recipe online from a veterinary nutritionist, or have a phone consultation with a vet nutritionist. Or you can do it all by yourself with the help of nutritiondata.com and one of the Yahoo home cooking groups. 

*But you CAN do it.* At first, it may seem time-consuming and confusing, but once you get into a routine, it's really no big deal. It doesn't take a lot of nutrition expertise. It's as simple as following a good recipe. 

Please don't be scared, intimidated, or discouraged. Think about this: How many of us humans eat a perfectly nutritionally balanced diet every day of our lives? Sometimes mistakes will be made, but life is not perfect, and somehow things do work out okay. (Just last week, I totally forgot to add the calcium to my batch of food. But I made adjustments, and all was well.) 

So, my point is, do the research, find a nutritionally balanced recipe and try it. If you don't like doing it, you can always go back to feeding commercial dog food. I really want to encourage people *who have the desire to try it.*


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Suzan - both myself and Tyler are so happy with the home cooking. I think he's happy, healthy and looks great and he now loves to eat after being Mr. Picky with dog food. I've been reading up on it and working on my own things and I just love having the animal essentials multi vitamin, calcium and enzyme and probiotic and also coconut oil. It smells so good that it's like hot fudge on the sundae.:HistericalSmiley: I do cook every day. I have done that for my DS because of his allergies and believe me prepping food for a 4 pounder is a lot easier than a growing child. And when I'm away for work my DH preps his food. It only takes about 5 minutes. I figure if we eat healthy, so should Tyler. It's still a work in progress but really feel much happier. I'll take him to the vet in October to see what his bloodwork says. That will be the determination. But thanks for helping to guide me.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

I totally agree with Suzan!! Home cooking is very rewarding. You have much more control and transparency into what is going into your babies' bodies. 

We do blood work every six months, and each time the results have come out perfect for both pups. (Knock on wood.) So I am very pleased.

p.s.: I will say that I think it was easy for me to home cook because I have enjoyed researching human food and nutrition for nearly a decade. So I understand that if it is not your schtick to learn about nutrition, vitamins/minerals, and required calcium/phosphorus ratio for dogs vs. humans, that you might feel more inclined to feed a high-quality dog food. I think knowing more about nutrition helps because it allows you to make substitutions when you occasionally don't have something on hand...and it helps you achieve more variety in your pups' diet.


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## mary-anderson (Jan 12, 2010)

:ThankYou:Suzan, I think you are reading my mind. I've been home cooking for about 6 months now. I bought books, looked on websites,
talk to my vet, etc. to ensure I'm feeding my fluffs probably. For some reason lately I have been questioning if I have done the right thing by home cooking. I keep reading it has to be exact. I know somedays I don't get all the nurtients I need and I'm very healthy . I don't like to each processed food so why would I want my little ones too. I take daily supplements and so do they. It is a lot of work, but when it comes to feeding time it is so worth it. So thanks for the words of encourgement and also answering my pm:thumbsup:.


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## gigigirlz (Jun 18, 2007)

*home cooking.....*

I am waiting for info from the nutrionist from Purdue Vet Hospital....she is going to come up with some recipes for me to make for Miss Skylar Sue...now that Skylar has been diagnosed with congestive heart failure...


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

mary-anderson said:


> :ThankYou:Suzan, I think you are reading my mind. I've been home cooking for about 6 months now. I bought books, looked on websites,
> talk to my vet, etc. to ensure I'm feeding my fluffs probably. For some reason lately I have been questioning if I have done the right thing by home cooking. I keep reading it has to be exact. I know some days I don't get all the nutrients I need and I'm very healthy . I don't like to each processed food so why would I want my little ones too. I take daily supplements and so do they. It is a lot of work, but when it comes to feeding time it is so worth it. So thanks for the words of encouragement and also answering my pm:thumbsup:.



You are welcome. 

I don't know of anyone anywhere on earth that does everything perfect in life. People have been frightened into believing that if you don't do it perfectly, your dog will die of some horrible disease immediately. Yes, you should strive to get all the nutrients correct, but it's not that difficult, with a little help. 

How do you think a veterinary nutritionist comes up with a recipe? The one who did my original recipe for Nikki (when her liver enzymes were high) looked on the back of a can of prescription food for the percentage of nutrients, then used nutrition data: Nutrition facts, calories in food, labels, nutritional information and analysis – NutritionData.com and duplicated those nutrients in a home-cooked recipe.

If a person learns exactly what their dog needs, then plugs the info into nutritiondata ( Nutrition facts, calories in food, labels, nutritional information and analysis – NutritionData.com,) they can figure out on their own what to feed their dog. If they aren't into doing it on their own, they can pay for a recipe from a professional, or buy a book. If they don't want to bother with that, they can use a pre-mix. 

I am not saying that it is for everyone, I am just trying to encourage rather than discourage, *the people who DO want to try it but have been intimidated by the naysayers.*


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

I am taking baby steps in this department. Linda (Lindy on SM) visited me a few days ago and brought me a bag of Dr. Harvey's. I've been reading the directions and it says one of the ingredients I need to add is oil. So I'll be ordering Coconut oil before I actually start.....

Keep talkin' Suzan....I'm listening....(I'm lazy)...but moving forward slowly toward home cooking for FOUR dogs!!! :blink:


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

The A Team said:


> I am taking baby steps in this department. Linda (Lindy on SM) visited me a few days ago and brought me a bag of Dr. Harvey's. I've been reading the directions and it says one of the ingredients I need to add is oil. So I'll be ordering Coconut oil before I actually start.....
> 
> Keep talkin' Suzan....I'm listening....(I'm lazy)...but moving forward slowly toward home cooking for FOUR dogs!!! :blink:


What I do to ensure that the dogs get enough Omega 3 oils, is I give them either canned sardines or canned or fresh _wild_ salmon once a week. That takes care of their Omega 3 oils. 

(I don't bother much with Omega 6 oils, as there is enough Omega 6 oil in the supplement I use, and in some of the proteins/veggies I use.)

Dr Harvey encourages rotating oils and proteins. Coconut oil, flax oil, hemp oil, olive oil, and fish oil are some options. Dr Harvey's actually sells an oil mix on his website. I haven't yet tried it.


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

*sigh* Can you give me a shopping list of things I need to order on line?

I can get the protein locally, I don't want to leave anything out...:blink: and I want to have a good supply of everything I'll need.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

The A Team said:


> *sigh* Can you give me a shopping list of things I need to order on line?
> 
> I can get the protein locally, I don't want to leave anything out...:blink: and I want to have a good supply of everything I'll need.



Pat, you already have a source for coconut oil, correct? 

Here's the other oil:
Health and Shine - Dr. Harvey's
Rotate weekly with coconut oil. 

That's all you really need.


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Nikki's Mom said:


> Pat, you already have a source for coconut oil, correct?
> 
> Here's the other oil:
> Health and Shine - Dr. Harvey's
> ...


 
:aktion033: I'm on it!!! The kids will be eating good very soon!!! Thanks.


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## Lindy (Mar 25, 2009)

Pat, I could come see you again and go through the process with you. I know, when I first started, it would have been nice to have someone there to say, "Wonderful! It's perfect just the way you did it". It sure would have made me feel more calm and at peace when preparing and then feeding my dogs. But, as you know, all is well and "Life is Good" ...

But seriously, it's really easy and you'll do fine. Big bonus: your fluffs will love you all the more!


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Looking at the website, there seems to be two kinds of Dr. Harvey's - which is best?


BTW - I ordered Coconut oil today.:thumbsup:


and Linda, I'd love you to be there when I make up the first batch!!!!


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

The A Team said:


> Looking at the website, there seems to be two kinds of Dr. Harvey's - which is best?
> 
> 
> BTW - I ordered Coconut oil today.:thumbsup:
> ...


Oooh I wish I lived a little (or a lot) closer and I'd come along too.


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## Lindy (Mar 25, 2009)

The A Team said:


> Looking at the website, there seems to be two kinds of Dr. Harvey's - which is best?
> 
> 
> BTW - I ordered Coconut oil today.:thumbsup:
> ...


We'll see how they do on this first batch. They already eat foods with some grain, so this won't be a far stretch for them except, it will be fresh, live food. They probably would have no problems transitioning cold turkey, but that's up to you. You can always change to veg-to-bowl later. 

It would be an honor to be there and see those precious faces lick their bowls clean! Just say when!


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

The A Team said:


> Looking at the website, there seems to be two kinds of Dr. Harvey's - which is best?
> 
> 
> BTW - I ordered Coconut oil today.:thumbsup:
> ...



I prefer the Veg-to-Bowl, and that is the one I use for backup food, but you could try the other one and see how they do on it. Some folks rotate both of them.


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

For those of you who have Dr. Harvey's foods, what does the AAFCO statement say on the Dr. Harvey's packaging? 

Has *animal feeding tests* using AAFCO procedures substantiate that Dr. Harvey's provides *complete and balanced nutrition*? If so, I'll try it. If not, I won't. 


Joy


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

vjw said:


> For those of you who have Dr. Harvey's foods, what does the AAFCO statement say on the Dr. Harvey's packaging?
> 
> Has *animal feeding tests* using AAFCO procedures substantiate that Dr. Harvey's provides *complete and balanced nutrition*? If so, I'll try it. If not, I won't.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup: Dr. Harvey's may not be the best pre-mix to use:

It is not clear how much calcium Dr. Harvey's product contains, and whether it would really provide a balanced diet. No nutritional analysis of his products has been done. It would be fine to feed this food occasionally, but look for a product that gives you more information for long-term use. Also offers Veg-to-Bowl, a mix of dehydrated vegetables and herbs. *Note that Dr. Harvey is apparently a chiropractor, not a veterinarian or someone with training in canine nutrition.*

This site compares the pre-mixes:

DogAware.com: Dog Food Mixes


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

With all due respect.

Believe it or not, some independent thinking dog owners do not give a fig whether a certain food is endorsed by the AAFCO, or what the credentials are of the person who created a pre-mix. 

The medical industrial complex seems to forget that the actual FOOD you buy in the store,_ if it is good quality_, CONTAINS VITAMINS AND MINERALS - probably enough to maintain a human, and a dog's health, if you use a variety of foods of good quality.

What some folks actually might use to gage the quality of the food they use: great yearly checkups/bloodwork and healthy, happy, thriving dogs. 

There are dog owners on this forum and elsewhere who are independent thinkers and don't follow the herd. That is what diversity is all about. I would certainly hope that this forum allows for diversity of opinion for ALL of its members.


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## Lindy (Mar 25, 2009)

Nikki's Mom said:


> With all due respect.
> 
> Believe it or not, some independent thinking dog owners do not give a fig whether a certain food is endorsed by the AAFCO, or what the credentials are of the person who created a pre-mix.
> 
> ...


BRAVO! Ditto, too!


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

Anyone who knows me knows I don't follow the herd. I had a semester of human nutrition in college and I also had a semester of microbiology. (I have both an Associate of Science Degree and a Bachelor of Science Degree.) I have many years of experience in the health field, which includes a position in a teaching and research hospital. All my years of experience taught me to respect the knowledge of the experts in academia. Are they perfect? No. Do we know everything about nutrition? No. Subscribe to the free ScienceDaily.com. There's new research published almost daily about nutrition, health, technology, etc. Do I want to go with what is KNOWN via scientific evidence about nutrition for both me and my pets? YES. None of that "theory" stuff for me that's pushed by the alternative crowd. 


The overwhelming majority of veterinarians, especially the 50 or so who are specialized in veterinary nutrition, recommend using a dog food that has been tested and has been substantiated that it is complete and balanced using AAFCO standards. That's enough credibility for me. I don't want any of my animals to be "guinea pigs" for testing dog food. 

Back to the microbiology course I took in college. I learned enough in that course to know better than to feed raw. The risks of salmonosis and illness from other pathogens aren't worth the benefits to me. 


Joy


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## Lindy (Mar 25, 2009)

Please don't misunderstand. We do understand. A lot. 

And as for theories, haven't we all been taught through the years, the theory of evolution by great and learned men and women of academia? Yet, it is just a theory.:beating a dead hors

That's what is great about our forum. We can all learn from each other and help each other.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

But aren't some research writings also funded by big companies that want to push their "product?, whether it is dog food that sits on a shelf without refrigeration for years, vaccinations/shots, drugs, or vitamins/supplements? 

"Research" and "academia" should be researched also. Dig a little deeper into everything, and see where each authority is coming from? Who they are getting grants from? 

Regarding the AAFCO, I will say that if I myself followed the human equivalent - the US RDA food pyramid-- I would undoubtedly be 30 pounds overweight, very allergic, and very unhealthy. That's just me. I have tried feeding my dogs different premium dog foods. I have tried feeding them home cooked food. We have done blood work on both. For my two, the clear winner is the home cooked food. We all should do our own "research," make our own decisions, and judge the results for ourselves.

I also don't think it is helpful to relegate discussions of holistic care and health to the "alternative" crowd. Some of that knowledge that we are rediscovering goes back thousands of years to other civilizations that survived and thrived on little to no vaccinations, medicine, or even supplements.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

princessre said:


> But aren't some research writings also funded by big companies that want to push their "product?, whether it is dog food that sits on a shelf without refrigeration for years, vaccinations/shots, drugs, or vitamins/supplements?
> 
> "Research" and "academia" should be researched also. Dig a little deeper into everything, and see where each authority is coming from? Who they are getting grants from?
> 
> ...



:goodpost:


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

princessre said:


> But aren't some research writings also funded by big companies that want to push their "product?, whether it is dog food that sits on a shelf without refrigeration for years, vaccinations/shots, drugs, or vitamins/supplements?
> 
> "Research" and "academia" should be researched also. Dig a little deeper into everything, and see where each authority is coming from? Who they are getting grants from?
> 
> ...


 
Joy


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

I am also considering feeding home cooked. I don't really think it needs to be perfect as what is recommended is rarely perfect either. I don't eat all that is recommended for me either. It seems every few years the evidence of nutrition changes all the time. Not so long ago we were told low fat hydrogenated everything or you will die of a heart attack and get very fat, now it is get back to real fat and real food. I still subscribe to eating everything natural in moderation because the fads and recommendations change all the time.


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## Lindy (Mar 25, 2009)

princessre said:


> But aren't some research writings also funded by big companies that want to push their "product?, whether it is dog food that sits on a shelf without refrigeration for years, vaccinations/shots, drugs, or vitamins/supplements?
> 
> "Research" and "academia" should be researched also. Dig a little deeper into everything, and see where each authority is coming from? Who they are getting grants from?
> 
> ...


Amen to that:aktion033: Great post!


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

If I wait 20 years for the USRDA to change its food pyramid, I just might be dead by then. :HistericalSmiley:


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## Lindy (Mar 25, 2009)

What it all should really come down to is:

REAL FOOD, fresh and alive. It's not rocket science.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I think that some who post here do not really understand what the SM forum is. This is an online discussion forum. It is not a website where one person dictates what is right or wrong to others. On discussion forums, there should be room for all points of view, otherwise, it is no longer a discussion forum, but a soapbox for one person's point of view. 

I know that not everyone will agree with me on all things, and that is absolutely fine with me. I think it is improper for people to insist that they are right and there is absolutely no room at all for a differing opinion - and anyone who doesn't agree with them is not telling the truth. If people want to seek paid advice from folks that they regard as experts, then they can do that. But this is an online discussion forum. 

I am not here to be dictated to on how to raise and feed my dog YOUR WAY, whomever you are. 

I joined SM to discuss various methods on what works for you, and what works for me, compare notes, make friends. If people want to feed their dog Purina, it is fine with me, because it is still a free country. Now when they ask for OPINIONS about Purina, well, I may or may not post my opinion about it. 

My original reason for starting this thread was to encourage people who WANT to home cook. 

Now, as usual, it has degenerated into a "let's pull out our academic credentials and tell people to never, ever think about straying from what the AAFCO tells use to do," session. 

Despite the naysaying about Dr. Harvey's pre-mix and home cooking, my original post still stands. If you WANT to home cook or use a pre-mix, then I encourage you to try it and see how your dog does on it. Don't be scared or intimidated. 

This is not a perfect world. There are no guarantees. Neither science nor academia can guarantee perfect health and well-being for one single living dog. That is why we have to use the brain we were born with to make our choices and live with the consequences of our choices.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

princessre said:


> If I wait 20 years for the USRDA to change its food pyramid, I just might be dead by then. :HistericalSmiley:


HA, you and me both!!


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## mary-anderson (Jan 12, 2010)

Nikki's Mom said:


> This is not a perfect world. There are no guarantees. Neither science nor academia can guarantee perfect health and well-being for one single living dog. That is why we have to use the brain we were born with to make our choices and live with the consequences of our choices.


 :thumbsup::amen:


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## Lindy (Mar 25, 2009)

This is not a perfect world. There are no guarantees. Neither science nor academia can guarantee perfect health and well-being for one single living dog. That is why we have to use the brain we were born with to make our choices and live with the consequences of our choices.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't have said it any better. Thank you Suzan!


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

Great Post Suzan! Good post too Sophia. I do enjoy reading the posts and recipes about home cooking. I am inspired to do so for Mia and Gemma Bean but I learned that I need to switch *gradually* given my mistake w/ Gemma Bean last week (those on my Face book know what I am referring to). 

I am going to share a tid bit about my experience, which might or might not be a potential problem for those of us who do not feed food approved by AAFCO.

So, after Bean's incident, I called her vet's office the next day. I was not able to speak to her personal vet( he was out) so I spoke to another one on duty. He asked me what Bean ate that caused her diarrhea and I told him S&C and Ziwi Peak Venison. He told me he has never heard of either brand and said I shouldn't feed any food that isn't approved by AAFCO because they might lack in proper nutrition and can make diagnosis hard to determine (too many variables). Now, the fact that he never heard of the 2 brands is a red sign for me to stay away from him), but it got me thinking....I know academia is not fool proof, but when something bad happens, we still bring out dog to the vet for medical help..so what happens if someone's dog had a negative reaction to food (any food...commercial or home cook) that the vet is not familiar with? Would it impede or prevent proper treatment? It just got me a bit worried, that's all. Perhaps I worry too much or it is off the tangent. I DO want to feed my babies REAL food and do it right, and I am inspired to do so after posts from Suzan and other SMers...but I am "spooked" after Gemma's incident (note- she was *not* on home cooked food which caused her Dirty Ds).


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

godiva goddess said:


> Great Post Suzan! Good post too Sophia. I do enjoy reading the posts and recipes about home cooking. I am inspired to do so for Mia and Gemma Bean but I learned that I need to switch *gradually* given my mistake w/ Gemma Bean last week (those on my Face book know what I am referring to).
> 
> I am going to share a tid bit about my experience, which might or might not be a potential problem for those of us who do not feed food approved by AAFCO.
> 
> So, after Bean's incident, I called her vet's office the next day. I was not able to speak to her personal vet( he was out) so I spoke to another one on duty. He asked me what Bean ate that caused her diarrhea and I told him S&C and Ziwi Peak Venison. He told me he has never heard of either brand and said I shouldn't feed any food that isn't approved by AAFCO because they might lack in proper nutrition and can make diagnosis hard to determine (too many variables). Now, the fact that he never heard of the 2 brands is a red sign for me to stay away from him), but it got me thinking....I know academia is not fool proof, but when something bad happens, we still bring out dog to the vet for medical help..so what happens if someone's dog had a negative reaction to food (any food...commercial or home cook) that the vet is not familiar with? Would it impede or prevent proper treatment? It just got me a bit worried, that's all. Perhaps I worry too much or it is off the tangent. I DO want to feed my babies REAL food and do it right, and I am inspired to do so after posts from Suzan and other SMers...but I am "spooked" after Gemma's incident (note- she was *not* on home cooked food which caused her Dirty Ds).


Alice- I'm not sure I agree with the logic articulated by your vet's office. There are thousands of foods, and as we know from recalls, they can even differ from batch to batch.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

godiva goddess said:


> Great Post Suzan! Good post too Sophia. I do enjoy reading the posts and recipes about home cooking. I am inspired to do so for Mia and Gemma Bean but I learned that I need to switch *gradually* given my mistake w/ Gemma Bean last week (those on my Face book know what I am referring to).
> 
> I am going to share a tid bit about my experience, which might or might not be a potential problem for those of us who do not feed food approved by AAFCO.
> 
> So, after Bean's incident, I called her vet's office the next day. I was not able to speak to her personal vet( he was out) so I spoke to another one on duty. He asked me what Bean ate that caused her diarrhea and I told him S&C and Ziwi Peak Venison. He told me he has never heard of either brand and said I shouldn't feed any food that isn't approved by AAFCO because they might lack in proper nutrition and can make diagnosis hard to determine (too many variables). Now, the fact that he never heard of the 2 brands is a red sign for me to stay away from him), but it got me thinking....I know academia is not fool proof, but when something bad happens, we still bring out dog to the vet for medical help..so what happens if someone's dog had a negative reaction to food (any food...commercial or home cook) that the vet is not familiar with? Would it impede or prevent proper treatment? It just got me a bit worried, that's all. Perhaps I worry too much or it is off the tangent. I DO want to feed my babies REAL food and do it right, and I am inspired to do so after posts from Suzan and other SMers...but I am "spooked" after Gemma's incident (note- she was *not* on home cooked food which caused her Dirty Ds).


I really wouldn't worry about it, Alice. The type of food that is fed should not impede or prevent proper treatment of your dog. For example, what if we went to the doctor with a G.I. illness, and he told us that because we weren't following the USDA food pyramid guidelines, he couldn't really treat our illness properly?

Most vets know only what they are taught in school about animal nutrition, and they are taught to follow the AAFCO guidelines. They don't have time to think beyond that. I have a great amount of respect for vets, but in all honesty, they don't keep up on nutrition, and many of them only know about the food that is sold in their office and in Petsmart, especially because that is what most people feed their dogs.

My vet is a conventional vet who sells Science Diet and goes along with AAFCO guidelines. He is well aware that I home cook, and he thinks it is great that I am doing it. My home cooking isn't AAFCO approved, as far as I know, :HistericalSmiley:but my vet approves, because the dogs are healthy and happy.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Ladysmom said:


> :thumbsup: Dr. Harvey's may not be the best pre-mix to use:
> 
> It is not clear how much calcium Dr. Harvey's product contains, and whether it would really provide a balanced diet. No nutritional analysis of his products has been done. It would be fine to feed this food occasionally, but look for a product that gives you more information for long-term use. Also offers Veg-to-Bowl, a mix of dehydrated vegetables and herbs. *Note that Dr. Harvey is apparently a chiropractor, not a veterinarian or someone with training in canine nutrition.*
> 
> ...


I know this doesn't necessarily make a difference in the quality of the food, but it bugs the heck out of me when someone, in this case Dr. Harvey, uses the honorific "Dr." on a pet food and he isn't a veterinarian. Obviously people are going to assume he is a veterinarian and it gives the appearance of deception, IMHO.

I looked at his site and there is not a complete bio but it mentions that he is a nutritionist (for humans)... It's so vague .. is he a Registered Dietician or what? (Not that his education in that field, if he has it, would be applicable to animals.) Too much info missing, IMHO.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

k/c mom said:


> I know this doesn't necessarily make a difference in the quality of the food, but it bugs the heck out of me when someone, in this case Dr. Harvey, uses the honorific "Dr." on a pet food and he isn't a veterinarian. Obviously people are going to assume he is a veterinarian and it gives the appearance of deception, IMHO.
> 
> I looked at his site and there is not a complete bio but it mentions that he is a nutritionist (for humans)... It's so vague .. is he a Registered Dietician or what? (Not that his education in that field, if he has it, would be applicable to animals.) Too much info missing, IMHO.




Graduates of chiropractic schools receive the degree _Doctor of Chiropractic (DC)_, are referred to as "doctor", and are eligible to seek licensure in all jurisdictions.

I am sure that if anyone has specific questions for him regarding his credentials or his food, he'd be glad to provide further info. He's very receptive and loves to help people.


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Alice! Have you introduced Gemma here on SM yet??? Have I missed it??



godiva goddess said:


> Great Post Suzan! Good post too Sophia. I do enjoy reading the posts and recipes about home cooking. I am inspired to do so for Mia and Gemma Bean but I learned that I need to switch *gradually* given my mistake w/ Gemma Bean last week (those on my Face book know what I am referring to).
> 
> I am going to share a tid bit about my experience, which might or might not be a potential problem for those of us who do not feed food approved by AAFCO.
> 
> So, after Bean's incident, I called her vet's office the next day. I was not able to speak to her personal vet( he was out) so I spoke to another one on duty. He asked me what Bean ate that caused her diarrhea and I told him S&C and Ziwi Peak Venison. He told me he has never heard of either brand and said I shouldn't feed any food that isn't approved by AAFCO because they might lack in proper nutrition and can make diagnosis hard to determine (too many variables). Now, the fact that he never heard of the 2 brands is a red sign for me to stay away from him), but it got me thinking....I know academia is not fool proof, but when something bad happens, we still bring out dog to the vet for medical help..so what happens if someone's dog had a negative reaction to food (any food...commercial or home cook) that the vet is not familiar with? Would it impede or prevent proper treatment? It just got me a bit worried, that's all. Perhaps I worry too much or it is off the tangent. I DO want to feed my babies REAL food and do it right, and I am inspired to do so after posts from Suzan and other SMers...but I am "spooked" after Gemma's incident (note- she was *not* on home cooked food which caused her Dirty Ds).


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

k/c mom said:


> I know this doesn't necessarily make a difference in the quality of the food, but it bugs the heck out of me when someone, in this case Dr. Harvey, uses the honorific "Dr." on a pet food and he isn't a veterinarian. Obviously people are going to assume he is a veterinarian and it gives the appearance of deception, IMHO.
> 
> I looked at his site and there is not a complete bio but it mentions that he is a nutritionist (for humans)... It's so vague .. is he a Registered Dietician or what? (Not that his education in that field, if he has it, would be applicable to animals.) Too much info missing, IMHO.





Nikki's Mom said:


> Graduates of chiropractic schools receive the degree _Doctor of Chiropractic (DC)_, are referred to as "doctor", and are eligible to seek licensure in all jurisdictions.
> 
> I am sure that if anyone has specific questions for him regarding his credentials or his food, he'd be glad to provide further info. He's very receptive and loves to help people.


Oh, yes, of course I know that chiropractors receive a doctorate but I think you may have inadvertantly missed my point. My point was that when someone uses "Dr." on a pet product it is likely to be assumed that "Dr." is referring to the person's being a veterinarian, not a chiropractor. And his site refers to him being a nutritionist, which further complicates things for the person who is trying to learn more about the company before making a decision.

I am not trying to malign this person as I only heard of him recently. But as I was trying to learn more about him and his company, there were just some things that struck me negatively, which I shared here.


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

k/c mom said:


> Oh, yes, of course I know that chiropractors receive a doctorate but I think you may have inadvertantly missed my point. My point was that when someone uses "Dr." on a pet product it is likely to be assumed that "Dr." is referring to the person's being a veterinarian, not a chiropractor. And his site refers to him being a nutritionist, which further complicates things for the person who is trying to learn more about the company before making a decision.
> 
> I am not trying to malign this person as I only heard of him recently. But as I was trying to learn more about him and his company, there were just some things that struck me negatively, which I shared here.


That is a good point Sher, and well put. I recently learned about this product too and heard great reviews..but this information also struck me negatively.


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

The A Team said:


> Alice! Have you introduced Gemma here on SM yet??? Have I missed it??


No, not yet Pat!! hehe.. :blush:


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## poochie2 (Jan 14, 2010)

Nikki'smom----- You're awesome!:thumbsup:
Thanks for your info on home cooking.......I'm almost there...but not quite yet.B)


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## PreciousPrince (Feb 27, 2006)

Regarding the Dr. Harvey's: I use the mix and get a customized supplement for Perri from a nutritionist based on a nutritional blood test. Probably over the top for a young healthy dog, but it makes me feel better. Anyway, I had a family member who was interested in using Dr. Harvey's but couldn't do the testing, so I asked him if he recommended using a supplement with the Dr. Harvey's even though it's supposed to be complete, and he said yes. Personally, I would look into a proper supplement for it if I could no longer do the customized option, especially because Perri just gets a small amount of the mix added to his meat and I don't think near the amount recommended on the package. 

Regarding bloodwork, I had the first nutritional test done when he had been on an organic commerical dog food and I was switching to cooking because Perri did not like said dog food, and it was fine, and his subsequent yearly tests on the Dr Harvey's with his supplement have also been fine. It's not like he had bad bloodwork before and then the cooking made some miraculous change. Yes of course I know that there is no comparison between a kibble, even a good organic one and fresh cooked meat and of course he has to be better off eating what he does now, but it's interesting that by looking at just the bloodwork, you wouldn't know. An aunt who runs a vet clinic told me she's seen dogs fed Ol'Roy their whole lives with perfect bloodwork - not the specialized stuff Perri had done, just your regular workups, but still. Don't worry, Perri won't be getting Ol'Roy anytime soon, and as long as I cook I'll be getting the tests with his nutritionist to make sure we're on the right track, but this does make me wonder how much emphasis we should be putting on the bloodwork.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

With respect for everyone's opinion, I still think that a variety of good quality proteins, veggies, fruits. and herbs cooked properly contain adequate amounts of vitamins/minerals to sustain most humans and dogs without having to add much in way of supplements. 

I think that supplements like fresh and freeze-dried herbs. and high-quality vitamins (preferably made from whole foods, not synthetics) can be very useful for certain types of health conditions/deficiencies, but if the food is nourishing, why over-supplement?

The reason why commercial pet food contains vitamins/minerals is because the food is GENERALLY poor quality castoff food, and the method in which the (kibble and canned) food is cooked, takes much of the vitamins/minerals out, so they have to be added back in. So the end result is food with little nutritional value and a synthetic powdered vitamin mix. The vitamins/minerals can keep a dog alive, yes, and yes, most are AAFCO approved. I wonder if the AAFCO is equipped and trained to test human meats and veggies from grocery store shelves, or direct-from-farm food for their nutritional value. 

The reason why I like Animal Essentials multi-vitamin/mineral supplement with home cooking is because it is made with herbs and seeds. Similarly, Dr. Harvey's pre-mixes contain vitamins/minerals within the carefully chosen mix of dried veggies/herbs/grains, which, when protein/oil is added, make up a nutritious recipe.

I think that a calcium supplement is essential if you don't feed raw bones, and the pre-mixes I've read about already contain it. Most home cookers know to add calcium to their dog's recipe. 

The bottom line is, either you want to home cook or you don't, and most of you who do, are interested in providing a balanced diet for your dog, and you will find a way to do what works for you and your dogs, in spite of the fear and negativity that surfaces when this subject is discussed. I wish you the best with it. 

And if you don't want to home cook for whatever reason, I feel that is perfectly fine, too. Live and let live. No one should judge you or make you feel guilty.

I don't think it's necessary for me to comment further on this subject.


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## Tiger's Mom (Jan 9, 2008)

Nikki's Mom said:


> If you are interested in home cooking for your dog, please know that it can be done very successfully. There are thousands and thousands of people who home cook for their dogs with very good results. If your desire is to ensure that your dog eats good nourishing food that you prepare yourself, then go for it and don't get discouraged.
> 
> Yes, you do need to ensure that the recipe you use is nutritionally balanced. There are several different ways to do this. You can buy a book from a reputable author/vet nutritionist, you can buy a recipe online from a veterinary nutritionist, or have a phone consultation with a vet nutritionist. Or you can do it all by yourself with the help of nutritiondata.com and one of the Yahoo home cooking groups.
> 
> ...


I really have to thank you and Sophia for the recipe's you've posted as It was so thoruough that I finally was able to switch over . . .and am really loving giving them home cooked meals NOW :wub:. . . You are right, it really isn't as intimidating as I thought it would be . . .doing it the first time I of course had to read through at least 4 times each paragraph to ensure I don't miss anything . .but after one batched, I have learned to improvise and add stuff that I know my babies love. I have made a section of my freezer dedicated to their food :HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley: and I did not wait to use up the first batch to make new ones . . Now my freezer holds their salmon meals, bison meals and turkey meals which I alternate every week - can you tell am crazy excited over this :w00t:. . .And since I have all the suppliments to ensure they get the complete nurtition they need, I am really happy to have switched over. And the best part of it all is I know what it is they are actually eating (and not something processed) . . . 

For those of you whom you think you might not be able to keep up as we know we often have those days where we are too busy to make a meal for them, just thought you'd know that the organic baby food section is a wonderful backup meal for them. I know my pantry now have some sweet potatoes and applesauce bottles :blush:

As a busy mom and entrepreneur, I can tell you that getting their food ready only takes about 5 mins . . .once you've got a routine going :chili: So I do hope you all would consider trying home cooked meals. 

Oh one more thing, I never weaned them from the kibble to home cooked meals. I switched completely and no major stool reaction at all :aktion033:


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## Tiger's Mom (Jan 9, 2008)

Nikki's Mom said:


> I think that some who post here do not really understand what the SM forum is. This is an online discussion forum. It is not a website where one person dictates what is right or wrong to others. On discussion forums, there should be room for all points of view, otherwise, it is no longer a discussion forum, but a soapbox for one person's point of view.
> 
> I know that not everyone will agree with me on all things, and that is absolutely fine with me. I think it is improper for people to insist that they are right and there is absolutely no room at all for a differing opinion - and anyone who doesn't agree with them is not telling the truth. If people want to seek paid advice from folks that they regard as experts, then they can do that. But this is an online discussion forum.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:


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## bloomingtails (Aug 24, 2010)

New here and just surfing around trying to get acclimated. Very interesting discussion and I was pleasantly surprised to see a lengthy discussion about Dr. Harvey's.

We have been using Dr. Harvey's since 2004. He originally sold his rights to another company and after being dissatisfied with them, he took it back. In 2004 I had a rescue with Congestive Heart Failure among other issues. I called him on the phone and he was very helpful.

Since then, I have talked to him several times over the years. (I did not know he was a chiropractor and not a vet but he is very knowledgeable and has never steered me wrong). One of my rescues came to us with Irritable Bowel Syndrome and food was an issue. We put her on Dr. Harveys and we have had no flare ups since 2004. I have senior yorkies who are 14 and thrive on his food.

I just went to Dr. Harveys site and searched for calcium and found the following:

The ratio of our food, when complete is 1 to 1.1 *calcium* to phosphorous. We use only *calcium* citrate, the most absorbable type *calcium*. Most foods that add *calcium* use *calcium* carbonate.

We use Dr. Harveys' 3-4 times a week, home cooking the rest of their meals. I don't worry so much about balancing their other meals as I believe (based on the fact that my vet was not crazy about home cooking so to prove it to him, we did blood work and it was spot on) that you don't have to balance every meal, just as every meal we eat is not nutritionally balanced.

There is a book I recommend, The Healthy Dog Cookbook, by Jonna Anne with Mary Sraus, Canine Nutritionist and Shawn Messonnier DVM, veterinary consultant. For each recipe they address what needs to be added to make it nutritionally complete. The recipes are easy and fast and provide a variety that the dogs all love.

Feeding your dog is a personal decision and everyone is entitled to their opinions and it so depends on the dog and its issues. We can all benefit from a good discussion.


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## Dogwriter (Jul 3, 2010)

Suzan,

Thank you for starting this great thread. I have been wanting to cook for my gang (again). I used to cook chicken & rice, or sometimes salmon for the Corgis a few times a week in addition to their usual fare. Also they got a lot of green beans (if you don't know Corgis, they get overweight easily and they go on what's called the Green Bean Diet).

Well along came my husband and the first time he found out the food that smelled so good was for the *DOGS* he about flipped. I let him needle me out of home cooking. That was about 2 years ago. Just now I told him I feel strongly about it and want to do it again. He's fine with it; he said he'd just never heard of COOKING for the DOGS.:HistericalSmiley:

He also apologizes to Piper when I put her in a frilly dress, but that's another story.....

Anyway I think i'm going to consult a nutritionist. I've already emailed PetDiets.com and they said they will be happy to design a menu for a 4 mo. old puppy.  I appreciate your encouragement.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Here are a few other canine nutritionists besides Dr. Remillard:
*
Sabine Contreras* (see About Page)
Marina del Rey, CA
Ph: (310) 991-6673
E-mail: [email protected]
Better Dog Care, Better Dog Nutrition (site for consults)
The Dog Food Project (for food information)

*Susan Blake Davis*, CCN
CCN-Certified Clinical Nutritionist 
VCA Arroyo Animal Hospital 
Lake Forest, CA 
Ph: 949-499-9380
E-mail: [email protected]
website: Holistic Veterinarian Pet Nutritionist Holistic Pet Care

*Rebecca Remillard* (PhD, DVM, MS, DACVN)
Angell Animal Medical Center - Boston, MA
(617) 522-7282
MSPCA-Angell: Nutrition Team
Veterinary Nutritional Consultation, Inc.
Welcome to Pet Diets

*Joseph Wakshlag*
Assistant Professor of Clinical Nutrition
Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine - Ithaca, NY
E-mail: [email protected]
Ph: (607) 253-4389
Fax: (607) 253-3534

*Hilary Watson*
Ph: (519) 836-7253
[email protected]
(Note: Please specify nutrition request in subject line to avoid spam filters)
Hilary Watson Pet Nutritionist
(Can ONLY be contacted by those in Canada at this time)

*Lisa Weeth* (DVM, DACVN)
Redbank veterinary Hospital - Red Bank, NJ
Ph: (732) 747-3636


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

The Whole Dog Journal recently put out an article enlightening us at to what constitutes AAFCO approval. I'm sorry to say I was sadly disappointed and no longer think that AAFCO approval such an important thing. Just because a food is AAFCO certified does not mean it is truly complete and balanced. Nor does it mean that it will not cause future problems. Here's just a brief synopsis of what was printed in the WDJ.

The feeding trial (1 of 3 ways to get AAFCO certified) is only 26 weeks and using one example, mineral excesses may take a year or more to cause health problems. Another way to become AAFCO certified is through a 'family member'. So if one of the formulas passed the feeding trial, all the other formula's no longer need to be individually tested. The AAFCO nutrient profiles allow for a wide range of values. According to the WDJ, it is far from being some sort of industry 'standard', or offering suggestions for optimum nutrition. They actually offer only broad guidance. Better than nothing and the WDJ suggests it at least gets a pet food maker into the ball park. The WDJ states "But in our opinion, it's farcical to qualify all the products with such a wide range of nutrient levels as 'complete and balanced' --especially with the common mistaken inference that all the products carrying that statement are somehow equal". 


That 'family member' way of getting AAFCO approval is particularly scary! I prefer to listen to holistic vets and vet nutritionists who have taken years to really study this. Mine have been on Dr. H's for almost 3 years now. It is one of the few foods I sell at my store. I wanted to be sure, not only for mine, but that I could tell my customers with complete honesty and peace of mind, that mine are getting everything they need nutritionally from Dr. H. So I had mine tested every 3 months for the first year. I'm one of those people that think, 'if this is good, then adding this must be even better'. So I added Animal Essentials Multi-Vitamin every other day to their food and AE's Green Alternative on the off days. My thinking was the amount of Copper in the Green Alternative...not wanting too much copper and therefore decided to alternate between the two. There is no calcium at all in the Green Alternative but a low amount of calcium in the Multi-Vitamins. The very first test came back with Jett's levels perfect. However Zoe's phospherous level was a tad bit low. I called Dr. H and he was shocked that Zoe's phospherous level was low. So after a very lengthy conversation with Dr. H, it came out I was adding the Multi-Vitamin. So I stopped the Multi-Vitamin and the Green Alternative and both of their levels have been perfect ever since. So there is the perfect balance in Dr. H's mix and by adding a tiny bit more calcium was enough to through Zoe's level off. Now every dog is different and one dog could need more or less of this or that then another. But that would apply to any commercial food as well as any of the Pre-Mixes.

That being said, everyone needs to feed what they are comfortable feeding. For me, if I were looking at feeding a human child, feeding a steady diet of processed kibble type food vs. fresh real food seems to be pretty obvious as to which is best. So I do the same for my fur kids. However, if I could not afford to feed my furkids this way, I would feed them a high quality canned commercial food knowing I'm doing the best I can do.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

If I could not afford to home cook, I'd first go with a grain-free canned food that was in my price range first. Grain-free kibble, second. 

Because I had to deal with a very sick Bichon for 15 years before I got my Malts, I decided that I'd home cook way before I even got Nikki, and started adjusting my budge. I feel that I can't afford NOT to home cook. But that is my choice, and I don't judge anyone for what they feed their dog. These days, we all do the best we can with the time and money we have. 

I feel that the best way to figure out what works for you is to never blindly take advice from anyone - even "experts," but instead, do your OWN research, try different things, and have your dog's blood work checked to see if what you are doing is working. That is a good way to know what works best for YOUR lifestyle and YOUR budget and what YOUR dogs will thrive on.

This subject seems to always be contentious because some folks (including me) have strong feelings about what to feed dogs. I certainly do not want to tell anyone here what to do, or wish to hurt anyone's feelings. 

My reason for posting on this subject is to provide info so that YOU can do your OWN homework and hear BOTH SIDES of opinions on various feeding methods in order to make a truly INFORMED decision.


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