# Shiva bit me!



## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

Okay all you experts, maybe I've been a pushover lately since Shiva is in pain because we had to postpone her surgery, but today during her bath she bit me so hard she drew blood. She will growl if you pick her up when she doesn't want to be, growl during her bath, especially when the water is near her head, or if I'm grooming her at her back end (she doesn't like it). 

So maybe I've let her get away with this too much (ya think?) and now how do I reign her back in and deal with the growling and now biting?


----------



## cloey70 (Jan 6, 2008)

> Okay all you experts, maybe I've been a pushover lately since Shiva is in pain because we had to postpone her surgery, but today during her bath she bit me so hard she drew blood. She will growl if you pick her up when she doesn't want to be, growl during her bath, especially when the water is near her head, or if I'm grooming her at her back end (she doesn't like it).
> 
> So maybe I've let her get away with this too much (ya think?) and now how do I reign her back in and deal with the growling and now biting?[/B]


Ouch, I am sorry to hear that. I am no expert, but just show her who the boss is. Do u take her to the groomers?


----------



## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Get her into training classes, or consult a behaviorist before she bites someone else.

Good luck.


----------



## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

She only goes to the groomers for her nails and trimming her pad hair (because she bites me!). She doesn't bite the groomer. She bit my husband last time he held her for me to cut her pad hair. I called our trainer and she said to put the squirt bottle out when I bathe her and give her a good squirt in the eyes and if that doesn't work squirt lemon juice on her mouth. Then have her do 10 downs and 10 sits. Thats kind of hard to do in the bath. She won't even take treats in the bath because it upsets her so. She seems more upset at the groomers. She gets treats for sitting when I'm blow drying her, but she mostly does a nervous dance around the table.

I guess my question is do you treat fear biting differently than aggressive biting?

Also, she's gotten a bath at least once a week or once every 2 weeks since we've had her (2 years). I give her a good massage when bathing her and try to make it as pleasant as possible - no water in eyes or ears, etc. 

Could her fear be growing because her discomfort is growing? And if so, what is the best way to handle that?


----------



## cloey70 (Jan 6, 2008)

I would just let the groomers bath her every two weeks or every week. It sounds like it is stressing you out. If she doesn't bite the groomers, then let them handle it and then everyone is happy. It may be a little more costly but its better then all the drama thats going on at home with you bathing her. This is just my opinion, and personally if Clifford bit me once, it would be straight out to the trainers, and groomers all the time to deal with the issue. 

Good Luck


----------



## wooflife (Aug 8, 2007)

Hi,

I have a little experience with this. Izzy can be a serious grumpus and do the same thing only she's so small she can't break the skin. I don't even let her get away with growling. When ever she growls at me for anything I tell her no! and I flip her over on her back and make her lay down until her body relaxes and she submits. I also watch her body language when she sits in my lap, if she is acting like she's proud then I take her off my lap, so she doesn't think she owns me. I don't let her sit on the backs of chairs either again if she has a higher position she feels dominant. Like your dog most of the time it's just out of fear, because she doesn't feel safe, but she still has to learn that she needs to submit to people period.

Another thing that really helps is going for walks Cesar Milan style... it will help her learn who is the leader of the pak. It helped with my ex boyfriends dog who wasn't mean but thought he was in charge of everyone. He turned into a serious wus after we started walking.

It takes time but she will settle down, do your best not show any fear and make sure you carry yourself of hold your body like your the boss. In the meantime be careful letting her around people you don't know and talk to several trainers, maybe you can find someone who has methods that don't seem so harsh. 

I hope some of this might be helpful,

Leslie


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Correcting this behavior (saying no, squirting her) is NOT going to help. 

Let's think...why is Shiva biting? Sounds like a few things. 
1. Her back end hurts and she does not want it handled.
2. She does not like being bathed.
3. She does not like her feet handled.

We've got two separate issues to address - proper bite inhibition for pain AND a dog who thinks she is in control of the situation, not you. 

*Pain*
Dogs cannot tell us something hurts. So they react to pain by yelping, growling, snapping, and biting. That is how they can talk to us. So what is ok and what is not? 
Yelping and growling are appropriate behaviors. They tell us the dog hurts without violating rules of bite inhibition. 
Snapping is edging towards inappropriate. 
Biting is not appropriate. 
So how does a dog know what to do? Well, they have to know what reaction comes from them doing each behavior and what is okay. I find that dogs who are never allowed to mouth tend to go for that bite. Dogs who have been taught how hard is okay to mouth tend to be more careful about what they do. And if it does hit the bite, no harm is done. If a dog is told biting is NEVER okay, then when they do it, they don't know how much pressure is appropriate or not. 
Well, its easy to teach a mouthy puppy how hard is too hard, but not feasible with most adult dogs. So we have to turn to management. 
You know where hurts her and you can anticipate her reaction. Get a muzzle. Be matter of fact about her reactions. You need to stay calm and say "settle down" or "that's enough". Be gentle and curteous of her hurts, but go about your business. She probably has more anticipation of pain than actual pain. 

*Relationship problems*
Why is she biting to get you to stop? Because it works! 
Dogs are pretty smart critters. She has found that every time she bites you, you back off or stop doing something she doesn't like. She is rewarded (you stopping) by the behavior (biting). And dogs do what rewards them! So we have to change the game on her. 

Build your relationship! 
Let's make Shiva's life all about her relationship with you and anyone else in your house. So when I say you should be doing something with her, anyone else in the house should take part, too. 
Food is mine! You control ALL food. That includes every individual kibble from her meals. Make her do something for all food, treats and her meals. We do tricks for kibble and hand feed it one piece at a time. If you are in a rush, just have her eat out of her hand or you dropping a few kibbles in her bowl at a time. 
Toys and chews are mine! You control all fun things. Don't leave fun toys and chews down. Just some boring nylabones/empty kongs. You give toys out, have the play involve you, and you end the game. You hand chews out, if you can take some time to hold the chew while they're chewing, and you take them up. Nothing is free. 
Attention is mine! You control all attention. She has to do something for every pat or verbal coo from you. Nothing is free. 
All good things are mine! That means going out the door (sit before you go out), getting in the car, etc. 
Furniture is a privilege. Sorry, you don't get that privilege until we have a better relationship. No dogs on the bed. No dogs on the couch. Lap time should be sitting on the floor or a boring chair (and she needs to do something before you let her on your lap). As your relationship improves, privileges can be given back slowly...and are taken away again if needed. 
I control your life! Leash your dog to you so she has to be with you. Restrict her free run of the house when you don't have her with you. Fun stuff only happens with you around. 
30 minute down stay. Every day she needs to do a 30 minute down stay. If you need to, put her on a leash and put your foot on it. This is an easy one to do if you watch a TV show every day. 
(All of these ideas are reflected in Nothing in Life is Free/Ruff Love/Leading the Dance/Boot Camp programs)
Go to obedience class. Even just basic obedience. It is a wonderful relationship builder and one-on-one time. Tricks and treats classes are funny. Rally obedience classes are fun. 

Don't reward her negative behavior. Use the muzzle to keep yourself safe when you bathe her. That way if she goes after you, you don't back off. You know you are not hurting her by giving her a bath. Be calm and matter of fact. 

I know we can't always give food rewards. Do give verbal rewards! Any time she is complacent for her bath, get your high pitched happy voice and praise her! 

When we change our relationship with our dog and don't reward them for taking control of situations, we encourage them to look to us for guidance and rewards. 

The last thing I find handy is a "watch me". This means your dog makes and holds eye contact with you. It is an attention behavior that is great for redirecting your dog. Teach your dog a watch me. Make it the most rewarding thing your teach (the best treat/reward). Once you have a really solid watch me, you can try using it right before you know your dog is going to be reactive. The idea is to catch them and redirect their attention. This can help a lot with calming dogs. 

*The Muzzle*
I know the idea of a muzzle sounds awful. However, there is a bit more to the suggestion than just safety (although that is the most important). Pressure on the top of a dog's nose is a calming signal. This is why Gentle Leaders/Halti head halters can be helpful to anxious dogs. Not only does it give the owner control, but the physical action of it is calming. Many dogs "give up" with the muzzle and take their behavior down a few notches. This can really help make progress. Consider it one of your tools, just like a watch me or a long down. 



Just a few thoughts...seeing a trainer well-versed in behavior or a veterinary behaviorist in person will always be more inciteful than advise over the internet. Dogs often have subtle body language way before the reactions you may notice. Owners often have subtle body language, tones of voice, how they hold the leash, etc. that affect the dog. Without observing you, your family, and your dog...I can only offer some basic ideas. Good luck!


----------



## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

What great advice! I have copied and saved this to refer to later on when I get frustrated at Midis' excessive barking. Luckily he has no desire to bite us or get agressive and is young enough not to have pain either, so that is good! But he does not mind well when he wants his way and we want ours! Normally we put him out of the room or put him off of the furniture when he barks for no apparent reason (other than being spoiled and wanting to go out, to bark more).

Thanks for all the tips! 

Cyndi
Mommy of Spoiled Maltese, Midis


----------



## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

I can't remember why she is in pain...but I hope she's better soon :grouphug: I know it's hard not to baby them when they aren't feeling well. I'd avoid whatever you have to in the area where she is sensitive until the surgery. Why bring it on yourself, you know? Give yourselves both a break for now.

Ollie can be an occasional growler and I immediately take his little face and look him straight in the eye--I don't even have to say anything--he will turn his gaze away b/c he knows he crossed the line. But his situation is not the same as yours entirely. For non-pain situations--JMM is right--when you immediately stop what you're doing b/c of growling or biting, etc., you've let the dog win the battle. You've got to always win in situations like that.

I hope she's feeling better soon!


----------



## birdsong123 (Feb 25, 2007)

I wonder if she bit due to the pain more than due to a behavioral issue? Even a gentle animal can bite if they are in pain. See how she is after surgery. Poor girl.

Hope you're doing okay.


----------



## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

Thank you all for your advice and sympathy - you know my feelings were way more hurt than my finger! Jackie, your advice is so right on, thank you again for all the great guidance you give me and so many others on this forum. And Shiva is definitely anticipating pain before any occurs, especially when it comes to clipping her pad hair.

I looked up muzzles and I couldn't find one small enough for her - lol (she's 3 pounds)! But I watched the groomers do her nails and pad hair yesterday and the owner of the shop was gently holding her muzzle and rubbing her forehead as Alissa clipped and trimmed. She was a very good girl for them and was very calm. So I'll try to find a muzzle or some other alternative (suggestions welcome).

Hubby and I are going to take your advice about taking more control of her "life" and toys and food and fun things. I'm going to do more one on one training with her for now, probably more classes after her recovery. We did classes when she was a puppy, but it was with the woman that told me to use the squirt bottle and I was afraid that advice was not appropriate for the situation - I felt it would just make things escalate into more of a battle. And I really enjoy bathing her and grooming her because I want to have the opportunity to massage and make it pleasant, more so than a groomer would.

In the meantime, we're going to our first physical therapy session tomorrow, so hopefully with that and the liver cleansing diet we can get her knees done in the next few weeks. And after looking at the first site I found on 
Nothing in Life is Free, it describes Shiva to a tee - the timid dog with too much responsibility and therefore stressed! My poor baby, I am going to be sure she knows that I am here to make her world wonderful and take care of her. I really feel like such a bad mommy, and probably like a lot of parents (we don't have children) who make all the mistakes with their firstborn and then baby 2 is much easier. Stewie is a breeze and definitely looks to me as pack leader! In fact, I have been working with him on dog aggression for awhile now and it is so much fun to walk him and have him look up at me during our walks, they make them a really bonding experience.

Thanks again everyone for all the suggestions and advice, this forum is so wonderful!


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Scroll down to see the gauze muzzle. This is just roll gauze you can get at the pharmacy. 

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/clientED/dog_restraint.aspx


----------



## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Good luck Tami.

Keep us posted.

:grouphug: :grouphug:


----------



## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

Her first physical therapy session went great! I love our doctor, she is amazing and took almost 3 hours with us today. She taught me how to do different exercises with Shiva at home. And she thinks (along with 2 other vets now), that Shiva should only have her right knee done once her liver enzymes are lower. I'm hoping we can get the surgery done in early February now, so that gives us at least a couple of weeks of accupuncture, physical therapy, and the underwater treadmill to get under her belt beforehand and then more once she is healing from surgery.

Thank you all again for your great advice and for the link to the gauze muzzle and the way to put it on! She was so good today being manipulated by the vet and being held down, I rubbed her muzzle and it definitely soothed her.


----------



## Kutsmail1 (Dec 26, 2007)

> Correcting this behavior (saying no, squirting her) is NOT going to help.
> 
> Let's think...why is Shiva biting? Sounds like a few things.
> 1. Her back end hurts and she does not want it handled.
> ...


Thanks for this. I am going to copy it and send it to a friend who is having a terrible time with a dog biting. I have tried to tell her that she is only encouraging the behavior when she gives in, but it is getting worse. Thanks so much! :aktion033:


----------



## Malteseluv (Feb 6, 2007)

Hi Tami,

I know that you've said Shiva is liver compromised....Many times, liver compromised dogs may become aggressive or develop aggressiveness when toxins are backed up in their systems...This very well may be the case...


----------

