# Pet Quality Vs. Show Quality?



## geslabon (Mar 3, 2008)

My sister wants to adopt Piolo and I'm still thinking about it.
If I do decide to have him adopted. I will try to get my next Maltese from any of the top 10 Maltese Show Breeder.
I will have to fly out there. Any recommendation? 

Rich Maltese
Rhapsody Maltes
Divine Maltese
Diamond Maltese

So, my question is if I get a Pet Quality Puppy from any of this Top 10 Show Maltese does that means there is still 
something wrong with them? Will it have behavior issues too or any imperfection? 
I would love to have the Show Quality Maltese but not necessary to show. 
So, how can the breeder tell when they are still puppy whether it's a show or a pet Quality?
I know very little about it but according to my google research ;-) 
aside the from the bone structure, teeth, coat, weight etc. the breeder watch for the behavior and you can't sell them until they are 6 months. 

So the rest of the puppy that was not pick for the Show Quality is now for sale as a Pet Quality.
Does it mean that this puppy is comparable to any Maltese from the local reputable breeder who does not have a Champion Blood line? 

So, is it possible that the reputable local breeder who does not have a Champion Blood Line on his/her Maltese has a potential of a Show Quality Maltese?

Does that means that the puppy could be too shy or to aggressive? or whatever the reason why it was not pick as a potential Show Quality?

Why would you buy the puppy if they are not as perfect as the Show Quality? I would at least want a potential show quality but how can you tell if you are not an expert? 

I hope I'm clear to what I'm trying to say here. I want a quality that a Show Maltese has to offer but not to show but as a pet. 

It makes me think and other people says that the one's that are left behind means something is wrong with them.. for example. .who wants to spend a $3000 Maltese and their teeth is not perfect or feet is not straight or too shy or too aggressive? or for whatever reason it was not pick as a Show Quality. 

Please enlighten me here!


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## mpappie (Jun 28, 2005)

Why do you want to adopt Piolo out?


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## geslabon (Mar 3, 2008)

Ow... it's a very, very long story... but to make story short. Piolo is having behavior issues. 



> Why do you want to adopt Piolo out?[/B]


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## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

> Ow... it's a very, very long story... but to make story short. Piolo is having behavior issues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


why not work on the behavior issues you have instead of adopting him out? I'm on my way out, but did feel compelled to respond to this. I think working on the issues you have would be the right thing to do instead of passing Piolo around. Don't you think that could make his issues worse?


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

> Why do you want to adopt Piolo out?[/B]


That is my question too. If you are wanting to adopt Piolo out, then why would you be thinking of getting another Malt?
I don't feel qualified to answer all of your questions, so I'll leave that to those on this forum that are. But I do know that you will pay a much higher price for a show quality vs. a pet quality from a reputable breeder. Even a puppy from the top breeder in the country does not guarantee perfect health, or that there will be no behavioral issues. You can never be guaranteed the perfect puppy ever. IMO they are all perfect puppies, and the different personality quirks and issues are the same you are going to have when you give birth to your own child. You love them and are blessed by their different personalities and enjoy them for who they are. Going with a reputable breeder will increase the odds of having a puppy that is within the breed standard guidelines for body and temperment, and decrease the odds of genetic problems, but they still may have some behavioral or health issues. Also, I believe it is in the contracts of show breeders that you can't resell or adopt out one of their puppies, that they must go back to the breeder if for some reason it does not work out.


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

What happens if you have behavioral issues with a new pup?


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## geslabon (Mar 3, 2008)

Well that is why I posted this question for HELP! 
I have not decided yet. My sister is inlove and very close to Piolo.
I just want to be more educated next time when getting a new pup. 
I don't want to ended up with the same issue.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

I looked up some of your past posts. Are these the issues you are having with Piolo?

Hello,

I'm new here. I just got Piolo.. and I have issues and concern.

1. My Piolo's nose is not as black as it's suppose to be. I'm not sure if this is going to turn black soon?
2. His coat is not that silky.
3. His eyes is not as round or big as it suppose to be. Do they get bigger when older?
4. He gets mad when my kids try to take him away from me.
5. He also growls when in public when they try to pet him.


Please advice.

Thanks.

Some of the issues seem to be of a cosmetic nature. The 2 behavioral issues you asked about should be easily corrected with proper training and socialization. Have you taken him to a puppy class? What about working with a trainer one on one if you dont think you would get the amount of time and attention you need in a class setting or with the issue of your kids? How have you been socializing him? And the behavioral issues you mentioned could happen with a puppy from the best breeder. They are training issues, not a genetic or breeding problem.


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## geslabon (Mar 3, 2008)

No it not just cosmetic. 
If you would like to read for about 2 hours please read this...
http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23830


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

Most breeders do not adopt out show quality puppies into pet homes. If the puppy is of show quality they will normally either keep it in their program or place it in another show breeders care. This insures that the pup will be shown to its championship. 

There is not a perfect dog. 

Also all responsible breeders will make you sign a contract requiring that if you decide for whatever reason not to keep the dog/pup it be returned to them. Not passed around.


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## njdrake (Apr 23, 2007)

You have no guarantees when buying a puppy and believe me most puppies have issues. Puppy issues can be very trying but worth every minute of it. You just have to work with them and teach them. Zoey isn't the "perfect" Maltese and Tess has shyness issues and a cotton like coat but I wouldn't take a million dollars for either of them. I have beautiful wonderful girls and couldn't love them more. I can't imagine life without either of them. 
You need to give him a chance, work with him and you'll fall in love with Piolo. If you get another one you may end up with a lot of the same issues. I hope whatever you do its what's best for Piolo.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

> No it not just cosmetic.
> If you would like to read for about 2 hours please read this...
> http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23830[/B]


I just went through and read it...didn't take me 2 hours!  I really have to disagree with some of the alarmist comments that were made by some lady's who I generally really respect the opinions of. You have not had him long enough and he is too young to be written off as dangerous and mentally unstable. I agree that you did not get him from a reputable breeder and he was most likely not socialized properly. And he most likely is a purebred Maltese but since you got him from the place you got him from, he may not be in the breed standard as far as how he looks and size. But he's still beautiful. Unfortunately it sounds like the trainer you hired is not qualified to work with your baby. There are good trainers and bad trainers and you just have to keep searching until you find a good one. Do NOT send your baby away to be trained. The biggest part of training is in training you, the mommy, to know how to handle your baby and you can't do that if they send him away for someone else to train. JMM has given you really great advice and even the name of someone reputable to help with some of these issues. Have you talked to that person yet? What did they say?

That said, if you have exhausted all your resources and still are not able to handle or deal with Piolo's behavioral issues, the safety of your children do come first. And I would much rather see him go to someone who loves him and will work on these issues then go back to his breeder. I'm just curious, did Piolo act this way immediately when you got him, or did it develop a week or two after you had him? You have had him just under a month right?


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

> No it not just cosmetic.
> If you would like to read for about 2 hours please read this...
> http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23830[/B]


I don't have time to read for 2 hours...but I am concerned and would like to try to help. The "issues" that you have mentioned so far...have you contacted the breeder? If you just got this dog, there should be at least some kind of warranty against things such as fleas?? That would be my first step. Second step would be to call my vet to find out what avenue would be best for getting into some behaviorial/training classes. They may want to evaluate the dog to see if there could be some health condition contributing to any behavior problem, etc. Then I would follow whatever advice they give you. I think it's a shame to pass on a dog that has "issues" like this, which aren't really issues. Fate has put the dog in your hands for whatever reason and, my concsious would not let me rest until I tried every alternative FIRST before giving him up. But that's just me--some people cast off their animal at any inconvenience and that's too bad. I hope you'll pursue those things for him. We ARE trying to give you help--you just need to listen


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Not sure where you got the stats of 'top 10 maltese show breeders' but I think all of them will give you a good example of the breed. There are no guarantees as for temperment, but typically you can expect a well adjusted puppy from any of them.

does your sister have any children? If not, that may be a more ideal home for him, esp if he doesn't ahve to share her with others. I know I've said this all along, but if it were me, i would not try to keep a puppy who bit or even showed any hint of agression to my children, so I can well understand your considering giving him up to your sister. it might be a home more suited to him, and a home that wouldn't be putting your kids at risk! 

Having said that, any pet puppy you buy from a show breeder should be fairly close to the standard and should look like a maltese should (although as everything in life, this isn't always the case) . A breeder can only keep so many dogs back for show so will place show quality puppies into pet homes for whatever reason. There are soo many things that need to come together to get even one show quality puppy from a litter than is 'worth' taking the time to grow out the coat and show. You have to have nice structure (because if the structure is off, you aren't going to get nice movement) a nice coat (although you can work around a less than ideal coat, it just takes more time) correct bite, both testicles dropped in males, nice face, correct size and most of all, the temperment has to be one that will enjoy the ring. Some show quality dogs are just better off in pet homes because their temperments may not conducive to showing. Here is an excellent article about pet quality vs show quality.
http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/show_vs_pet.htm

The reason though that your chances of getting a maltese that actually looks like a maltese when buying from a show breeder is becasue any good show breeder will have the goal of trying to produce a 'perfect' maltese (although there is no such thing as a perfect maltese) but when dealing iwth breeders who are just in it for the money, they could care less about striving to breed for that 'perfect' maltese, they have no reason or incentive to try to produce a better quality dog because let's face it, all puppies are cute! 

In order to assess a show dog with any degree of accuracy, six months is the golden rule to evaluate these dogs. But it doesn't take six months to figure out which are more suited for a pet home. Also you will find that reputable breeders place their puppies on limited registration so even if they are show quality, they cannot be shown or bred.

Good luck with your search! Definitely take your time and do your homework! Also be prepared for the fact that not all breeders will place a maltese puppy in a home that has young children,.


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

I think that I missed your post about Piolo, but I gave it a quick check and let me tell you: your little pup is a CUTIE PIE :wub: :wub: 

I would say what others have mentioned: work with his issues instead of adopting him out. Puppies -no matter where you get them from- needs lots of work. You need to train them, teach them what is right and what is not (how on earth will they know that if they weren't trained)

about his looks: he is all maltese, thats for sure :wub: 



> You need to give him a chance, work with him and *you'll fall in love with Piolo*.[/B]



I totally agree with that. Once you work together, you start learning alot about your Piolo. youwill sure learn how smart he is


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## geslabon (Mar 3, 2008)

Thanks all your opnion are coming together in my head. It really helps.
For the questions...

My sister has no kids and loves Piolo. 

The breeder is well aware of what's going on.. she even reads stuff here in SM I believe.
but I have not even mention about her taking Piolo back. That is not even in my list. 

Yes, its about a month since I have Piolo.

No, The first week he was really scared of People, then the growling, barking and biting came when 
he got more comfortable to me. 

I have talk to trainer and vet behaviorist and will cost me an on going money. 

I'm already in love with Piolo. My concern are my children. My children are well behave by the way... ;-)

Please do not think I don't love Piolo because it's not true and I want the best for him. 

And just like Lucy Owns Me children comes first.


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

> Thanks all your opnion are coming together in my head. It really helps.
> For the questions...
> 
> My sister has no kids and loves Piolo.
> ...


I totally understand your situation with you children. 

Here is a link to hopefully answer you questions on how breeders choose and know what is show quality and not. 
http://www.dolcemaltese.com/show-prospect.html

Good luck!!


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

> Thanks all your opnion are coming together in my head. It really helps.
> For the questions...
> 
> My sister has no kids and loves Piolo.
> ...


Just so you realize, you will have costs for training with any puppy if you choose to adopt Piolo and get another one. Any puppy or even after they have grown up to an adult can develop behavioral issues if not trained properly. Just wanted you to be aware while trying to make a decision.


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## geslabon (Mar 3, 2008)

Thanks Suzi's Mom. I actually have that site. I love it!
Will some local reputable breeder have Maltese like this even if no Champ Blood line or sire?


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## geslabon (Mar 3, 2008)

Thanks for the site. That was really informative. Just what I need. 
I'm sorry again about Frank. I'm sorry to say this again but that was so immature of that person. 



> Not sure where you got the stats of 'top 10 maltese show breeders' but I think all of them will give you a good example of the breed. There are no guarantees as for temperment, but typically you can expect a well adjusted puppy from any of them.
> 
> does your sister have any children? If not, that may be a more ideal home for him, esp if he doesn't ahve to share her with others. I know I've said this all along, but if it were me, i would not try to keep a puppy who bit or even showed any hint of agression to my children, so I can well understand your considering giving him up to your sister. it might be a home more suited to him, and a home that wouldn't be putting your kids at risk!
> 
> ...


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## Missy&Maggie (Jun 17, 2007)

> Thanks Suzi's Mom. I actually have that site. I love it!
> Will some local reputable breeder have Maltese like this even if no Champ Blood line or sire?[/B]


What you are calling a local breeder is actually a backyard breeder. Dealing with a show breeder means that your Maltese will actually look and have the personality of a Maltese.

There are smaller, less known show breeders who sell their pet quality puppies at lower prices. You are not going to be able to get a show quality puppy from a backyard breeder. You are much better off with a pet quality puppy from a show breeder than a puppy from a backyard breeder.

Reputable breeders show and want to better the breed.

Honestly, I think that you should give getting another puppy some more thought. Any puppy requires training and lots of time and energy. Not to mention that Maltese are high maintenance dogs with all the required grooming and what not.


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

> Not sure where you got the stats of 'top 10 maltese show breeders' but I think all of them will give you a good example of the breed. There are no guarantees as for temperment, but typically you can expect a well adjusted puppy from any of them.
> 
> does your sister have any children? If not, that may be a more ideal home for him, esp if he doesn't ahve to share her with others. I know I've said this all along, but if it were me, i would not try to keep a puppy who bit or even showed any hint of agression to my children, so I can well understand your considering giving him up to your sister. it might be a home more suited to him, and a home that wouldn't be putting your kids at risk!
> 
> ...



I think this is a great post! Good job Stacy!

Also, I think I have to agree, that your pup is probably better suited for a home like your sister's. 
She has no kids and will not have to "share" Piolo. 

I'm sure if you continue to do your research, find a good show breeder you will be able to find a well adjusted, happy puppy who LOVES children.
It may take some time, and the right pup may not come along right away, but it's better to wait then to end up in the same situation.

Take the time to get to know the breeder AND have them get to know you and your family. 
If they do know more about you, they can possibly help to place the right pup in your home. 

Good luck!


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=545536
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know you aren't going to like this but I really have to agree with Melissa here. I mean you have 4 children. They are 11, 6, 5, and 4. Wow! You're like Wonder Woman to deal with all that is involved with children of those ages and so close together. I don't have any skin children, just my two furbabies, Zoe & Jett. And just the two of them require a HUGE amount of time. I can't even imagine having ONE with four children of those ages. I know it's really hard to wait, but maybe you should consider waiting several years when your kids are a bit older. As Lucy's mom stated, most reputable show breeders and I think all rescues won't even let you have a Maltese with children that young. Even if they are very very gentle and good with small animals, accidents can happen. And the odds of a young child being just a kid and doing somthing typical and silly and falling on a small animal is pretty high.


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## geslabon (Mar 3, 2008)

Yeah.. I think I'm a super woman ;-) I also have 2 love birds and a big aquarium on top of my 4 kids.
and my husband wants more. I'm very luck to have help in the house and have plenty of time to with the kids and my animals.
So, no.. I'm not a super mom just lucky. =)


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## jazak (Feb 12, 2008)

Small dogs need special care and attention, especially when there are small children in the house. Even a dog with the best temperment in the world may not like, or just be afraid of children. If you are not willing to try to help this dog work though his behavioral issues, why would you want to do it with another? Don't get me wrong, I also have 3 children ages 7, 5, and 3, and we do well with our maltese, but he is a little bigger, 6 lbs now at 4.5 mos. Max is not aggressive, but still he plays a little too rough sometimes, and the kids don't like it. I have had to teach both the kids and the dog how to interact with each other. It is a work in progress, but we are coming along fine. Max is learning not to play with his mouth when the kids are involved. Instead just give kisses. (my kids love that) The point is that even though max was very well socialized and I did not get him until almost 14 wks old, he still had behavioral issues that had to be corrected. 

Most dogs, especially when young children are involved, need to learn how to accept kids. I was fortunate that my mom has a farm so my kids have grown up with small fragile animals, ie newborn kittens, chickens, even emus. So my kids understand that they have to watch where they walk and play. A 30 lb child falling, accidentally, on a 4 or 5 lb puppy can cause alot of damage. I still need to have constant supervision when the kids and dog are in the same area, accidents happen. I am not saying that I and only I should have a maltese with young children, I am just saying that it is not ideal for all households. 

I think that if you are unwilling to give the puppy time to train and overcome his behavioral issues, maybe you should wait to get another one. Because chances are that that one may have some issues too.


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

Good posts Crystal and Zoe and jazak. :thumbsup:


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## Moxie'smom (Dec 16, 2007)

Your question and comments are of major comcern to me. 

As stated, there are no perfect dogs. Although I think my dog is perfect, they all have their little quirks.

I bought my recent furbaby from one of the top 10 breeders in the country. Do I care why he wasn't of Show Quality? 
I could care less. 

I didn't want a show dog..I wanted a loveable pet from a great breeder who cared about bettering this breed standard and I wanted a good puppy. By good I mean---- Healthy! That is still no absolute guarentee. But it's a step in the right direction. ( and I'm sorry for your flea situation..that must have been terrible, but it is correctable) 

Is Moxie's nose perfectly black. Yes. Does he have tear staining? No. He does have birth marks/beauty marks on his nose and a slight kink in his tail..which might be why possibly he was not of "Show Quality" I never asked the breeder...and I probably won't. Is his hair smooth and silky? For the most part yes..why, because I spend almost 1 hour a day combing, brushing and using the correct products on him to keep it that way. Might his hair not be super straight forever? Possibly, right now it's alittle wavy coming in. Am I going to think he is some kind of sub standard maltese because he has a few quirks? What are you kidding me! Is he healthy? Yes...that is the most important thing. 

Did he bite and nip when we first got him at 12 weeks? Yes. Did he bark at everything when we first got him? Yes. Did he growl at us and at other dogs? Sometimes he did.

Does he still do these things? most of the time NO...why? Because in the past 3 and 1/2 months that we've had him, we have spent everyday, counltless hours and some hard earned money training him not to. Every day we work on something and we still have a lot to work on. But I guess what I'm trying to say is no matter where you get your puppy..you're going to have to spend time training..and if you don't spend time training, you're puppy will not magically get trained. You have to socialize them, you have to walk them and give them proper exercise. A tired puppy is generally a good puppy. Even my maltese, who is housetrained walks over 2 miles a day. He loves to walk..he doesn't need to, but I know if he is tired he will listen more and act out less. 

A puppy, like your children, is a commitment. And you wouldn't return your children if their hair wasn't as blonde as it should be? would you? Well, like your skin babies..furbabies are no different. They are not carbon copies of perfection. And in the behavior department They need you to train them, they don't come with a set of instructions (Oh I forgot....well mine did- a crate training schedule.) 

Far too many people don't think things out before they buy a puppy. They think they should come trained automatically. Some people even try to send their dogs away to a trainer for a week and think when they come back they will stay that way if the owners don't continue to train them. 

It sounds like you believe getting a dog from a reputable breeder and a show dog no less will mean it will come trained the moment you bring him into your house. Well, it won't..unless you pay that breeder a lot of extra money to hire a trainer so your dog can come to you trained.

A lot of people here have bought their babies from reputable breeders who sold us a Pet Quality maltese. Do we consider our babies to be less than perfect because we don't show them? I don't think so. In fact if you do find a breeder who will sell you a show quality maltese (which I doubt because any reputable breeder I would hope would interview you and find that if you do get rid of your baby for not example: not having silky hair, I would hope that would send up a red flag to them not to sell you one) Raising a show puppy takes a lot of work..even more work than a pet. 

I think the issue is you don't have/or want to spend the time that is needed to properly train your dog. You ask a lot of questions..but It doesn't sound like you are willing to take advice. Which is fine, I guess. But if you're assuming that when you buy a maltese from a breeder they will come trained, you might have to re think that.

I have have both. A malt from a pet store (which at the time i didn't know any better) and a malt from a top 10 breeder. Both needed time. Both had different personalities. Both I considered to be my showdogs, perfect or not. You get out what you put in...it's very simple. 

I hope you take the great advice of all of the nice people here and re think getting rid of your precious puppy. All of the issues seem like they are correctable. That's if you really want to spend the time doing so. And please don't think getting a new puppy from a breeder will mean that your new little perfect dog will come any more trained than the perfect dog you already have.

Most of the time, if not all of the time, it's the People who need proper training...even more than the dogs....


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Let me just say that I am no Maltese expert. I don't even have my puppy yet. But I was owned by a wonderful Bichon for 14 years and lived through her puppyhood and I made a lot of mistakes. She was from a puppy mill, and was very shy and I had to deal with it. No way was I going to return her or give her to someone else. And I'm so glad I had patience because she was my best friend for 14 years, even though she cost me a ton of $$ in medical bills and heartache from illnesses. But I wouldn't trade those 14 years for anything. 

I've read through all of your previous posts, and it seems that you might be under the impression if you get a puppy from a top show breeder that you will not have any training issues or other problems. Your present puppy sounds like it hasn't been socialized at all and needs someone who is patient and willing to invest a LOT of time. So it sounds like giving him to your sister might possibly be a good thing. IMHO I would not get a Maltese if I had small kids, but that's just me. My Bichon was only about 15 pounds, and a child played rough with her when I wasn't looking, and it resulted in a bad disc problem in her back, and lifelong pain and back issues. 

Puppies are living beings with unique personalities and no matter whether you get a "top show dog" puppy or a pound puppy of mixed breed, a puppy becomes as good as his training. Dogs are created to be loved and cared for, whether they look like a show dog, or a cute ragamuffin mutt. The best way to understand the unique issues of small breed puppy training is to do your homework and know exactly how to train the puppy before you get it. If you get it from a reputable breeder with good references, whether a "top show breeder" or a small hobby breeder, at least it should be somewhat socialized. But that doesn't guarantee perfection in appearance, health, or personality. 

What if you get a puppy from a top show breeder and it has personality issues? Are you concerned with having a "perfect" appearance in your dog? What if it ends up with tear stain issues, or not-so-perfect hair? Or it becomes lame? Or deaf? Or contracts an illness? What will you do then with the puppy? Ask yourself deep in your heart if you are truly willing to invest time, money and a great deal of responsibility for 15+ years to take care of its little life as best you can and not get rid of it when a problem arises. 

Yes I know how cute they are and how everyone loves them, but they are living beings that need a lot of time, care, attention and money. The reason why I bring all these issues up to you is that I have recently been mulling them over in my own head because we've just decided to get a puppy. We understand what we are getting into, and we will accept the good with the bad, just like we did with my precious Peaches the Bichon.

I know you have a lot on your mind right now. Sometimes the best thing to do when you have a situation like yours is to wait a week or two and not make a hasty decision. Think it over. I wish you the best.


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## Krystal (Feb 3, 2007)

I think that maybe you should wait on getting another pup. From your previous posts I feel like you have been unhappy with the fact that Piolo is not "perfect" but you need to realize that no pup is! There are many of us here that have purchased our pup from byb because we didnt know any better and love them just the same as those who bought their pup from a reputable breeder. You say that you dont want to spend all that money to pay to work with a trainer, but why dont you take the $3000 you would spend on a new pup and work with Piolo to fix his behavioral issues. You need to realize that no dog is every going to be perfect! And if he has a bit of an overbite WHO CARES! He is still adorable and loves you unconditionally! Would you let someone adopt one of your kids just because they had some issues! Its not his fault that you didnt do your homework and research the breeder you bought him from before hand. 

Im sorry if this offends you but I just think that it is CRUEL to adopt him out because he is not "perfect" to your standards.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

1. If you place Piolo with your sister, she needs to be aware that she will still need to follow up with a professional on his behavior issues. It is not okay to let his posessiveness or growling go. It will escalate. This is not a simple solution of rehoming - he will still require work. 

2. ALL Puppies require work. Toy breeds require a lot of work to have in a home with small children. Do not expect a puppy to simply adapt to your kids. Even a new puppy will require work or you will end up with similar issues. 

3. All show dogs have minor faults. None are perfect. Little things like color in the coat, missing teeth, a narrow front, etc. do not make dogs any less wonderful as pets. And any reputable breeder should be able to tell you why they are placing a dog as pet. 

4. If you do not want to work with Piolo and want a new puppy, I, personally would not suggest a Maltese. Like I said, you will have to put a lot of work into making that Maltese mesh well with your family of active children. I would recommend you look for a slightly larger and more tolerant breed (oversized Bichons and Havanese can be a great match and being oversized is a common reason to be placed as a pet from a reputable breeder). These are still small dogs, but they may be more appropriate for your situation. I LOVE Maltese and mine do get along with young children - AFTER a lot of work. I still would not recommend them to others with small children nor would I purposefully purchase one with small children in my home. If you want a Maltese, wait a few years or put the work into Piolo.


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

I want to add that I think the main reason she should consider placing her pup with her sister, is not 
b/c of the "cosmetic" issues, it's b/c he bit one of her children. I may be wrong, so please correct
me if I am.

He was probably not socialized well, and for that reason has acted out and his way is aggression. 
I am by no means supporting not dealing with issues and not training your dog, I'm just saying her 
dog she currently has should NEVER have gone to her home in the first place. He is obviously a slightly
aggressive dog, and not socialized around children. This situation could end in disaster IF she is to 
keep the pup. I think her children should come first and Piolo shouldn't have to be crated or penned
off any time the children are in the room. Especially if she can place him with her sister where he can
be trained and not be penned constantly.

As for wanting to go with a top breeder - she is taking our advice and doing research and educating 
herself. She may continue researching and realize that a Maltese may not be for her family, a 
bigger, less delicate dog may be what suits her family. She wants a well socialized pup, and yes
getting a dog from a top breeder will decrease the possibility of aggression toward her children
and more than likely be easier to train. They are well socialized and handled a lot prior to being 
placed. And IF a show breeder is willing to place a pup in her home, with her children, they
are probably pretty certain that the puppy they place is going to thrive in her home! Otherwise,
the breeder would choose a different home!

Just my opinion.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

> I want to add that I think the main reason she should consider placing her pup with her sister, is not
> b/c of the "cosmetic" issues, it's b/c he bit one of her children. I may be wrong, so please correct
> me if I am.
> 
> ...




You make a lot of good points. A top breeder will work with her and the family to decide if it is the best thing for all of them. Little dogs and little kids together is not an easy thing. The breeder I am thinking of working with doesn't place their smaller puppies in homes with kids under 12.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> I want to add that I think the main reason she should consider placing her pup with her sister, is not
> b/c of the "cosmetic" issues, it's b/c he bit one of her children. I may be wrong, so please correct
> me if I am.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with Mandy. I think the OP is only considering placing this puppy because he bit one of kids, not because he doesn't look the way she wants him to. And I'll say it yet again, i would not keep a puppy that bit one of my children,esp when they weren't 'asking' for it (teasing, being loud or making sudden movement) In my eyes, she's not giving up on the dog, she is looking to provide it with a home more suited to its personality, a home without children and where he doesn't feel like he has to fight for his place. 

It's also not unreasonable that she wants a better experience the next time around. Her expectations about having a show quality puppy may be a little skewed since usually, there isn't a whole lot seperating show quality from not show quality. MANY dogs placed as pets could be shown and finished. If she gets a puppy sold to her as show potential with full registration, that is a sign that she is not dealing with a good breeder, once again.


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## Lisacisme (Feb 21, 2008)

My Maltese came from a home with a small child where he learned to nip to get away from the child. He tried the same thing with my younger daughter and after many months of gentle scruff shakes and walking away when he got rough, the nipping has stopped. Your puppy may not be aggressive but may be a "dominant" one. They will try and climb the hierarchy to become the pack leader. You need to take the lead here. Also having your children feed the puppy can help as well as putting its crate in their room and having it sleep with them may be another strategy. I'd agree that you need a new trainer and no new puppies until the kids have maybe been through a dog ownership class. The AKC has free videos you can get.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=545683
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I am in agreement that at this point I think maybe Piolo would be better off with her sister who does not have children, unless her sister plans to have children. And if her sister is willing to put the time and effort into working on these issues like JMM pointed out, re-homing will not solve the problem.

I also believe the agression is a major concern for her concerning her small children. But if you look back at her very original posts, cosmetics was her very first concern. She didn't think she got a purebred Maltese. And cosmetics is what she has continually talked about. So I think there is more to it then just the behavioral issues, which on their own is a legitimate reason to consider rehoming. In fact, just recognizing that a puppy in general, or a particular breed does not match the family and lifestyle, for both the humans and the puppy, rehoming is a good thing and I am grateful that people are concerned enough for the welfare of the puppy to not only realize this, but admit it and do something about it. So rehoming can actually be a very loving thing.

I just hope the OP really is open minded enough to reconsider the breed before getting another puppy. I really do not believe the Maltese breed to be a good match for her family at this time. You should never get a puppy based on what it looks like. You really need to research the personality traits, upkeep, temperment, health problems, and activity level needed to decide on the proper breed for you. There is a pretty good website called www.dogbreedinfo.com that gives you the good, the bad, and the ugly on every recognized breed. There is even a test you can take that will help to match the best dog for you and your lifestyle. I used it when deciding on which breed would be best for me and I got the perfect fit. However when I was first researching, I just knew I wanted a West Highland Terrior. Once I took the test, the Westie did not make the list of possible good matches. When I checked the profile, I realized it would have been a horrible match for me. Just please remember that there are breeders who advertise on that website, which does not mean they are reputable. Just because a breeder is somehow linked to that website does not make them a reputable breeder.


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## dogloverx3 (Apr 14, 2006)

Most dogs end up in rescue , because their owners prefer to move a dog on rather than working on an actual 'problem' . I think you will find the Maltese is NOT a breed suggested for families with young children , they are a very small and fragile dog . I suggest you contact a behaviorist - before purchasing a brand new set of problems . Sarah


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

As several others have mentioned, there may be a breed that will suit your family better than a maltese. A well bred bichon is very similar in temperment to a well bred maltese. Our bichon is now 13 and even though I love our Maltese, I am very pleased that we didn't have them when the children were younger. Jolie the Bichon was the perfect small (not toy) dog - pleasant, loving, and very sturdy. She is tall for a Bichon but only weighs 12-14 pounds.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

> Most dogs end up in rescue , because their owners prefer to move a dog on rather than working on an actual 'problem' . I think you will find the Maltese is NOT a breed suggested for families with young children , they are a very small and fragile dog . I suggest you contact a behaviorist - before purchasing a brand new set of problems . Sarah[/B]


I completely agree with you!! :biggrin:


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## Vanitysmom (Jun 9, 2005)

I have been following this discussion since it started. I am going to speak as a breeder and for the dog's point of view. First off, as a breeder, my first concern is for my puppies. I personally have a rule of thumb that I do not place puppies in households with young children or a bunch of children..............this is for the safety of my puppy. Have I placed puppies with children.......yes I have........under the right circumstances. This puppy, that is currently being discussed, is in a *very* active household with 4 children, three of which are very young(4, 5, and 6). That puppy has probably been carried, and grabbed(not maliciously on purpose) and held more and possibly more tightly than it should have been. Small children do not know how to handle small animals gently.........this is a learned behavior and needs to be taught. The only defense that a puppy or a dog has is it's growl and, as a final result, a nip or worse.

Since the puppy is fairly new to it's home, I am sure there is a lot of excitement and attention from all of the children. Has anyone considered that in all of the excitement, that the puppy may have been accidentally hurt which has resulted in the current behavior? 

We are talking about a 4 1/2 month old puppy here. Possibly the puppy felt safe when close to the mom, and was vocalizing for the children to please leave him alone for a while when he growled at the children while sitting next to the mom. He may just be scared of the children now. In any case, this puppy's behavior can be turned around where he can be a happy, well behaved puppy/dog under the right circumstances because he is still very young. Maybe the mom's sister would be a better placement, since she does not have any children. 

I feel very sorry for this puppy, as well as the family. The person who is at blame is the breeder for not looking out for her puppies best interests and for selling to a family such as this knowing that there would/could most likely be problems. But she got her money, with no refunds I might add.........that obviously seems to be the most important thing for the breeder. This same scenario has happened time and time again and normally the dog gets dumped somewhere. 

I have always been of the belief that no matter what the breed, there are no bad dogs.............just bad owners, even if unknowingly or not meaning to be. I am not trying to be mean, but did all-breed rescue for many years before actually going into showing Maltese and saw way too much cruelty and stupidity from the owners of the dogs being turned in. I really disliked humanity for a while because of humanity's ability to be so cruel/abusive when it comes to animals. Add to that that we currently live in a disposable society and the poor animals seem to get the bad end of the deal.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> I have been following this discussion since it started. I am going to speak as a breeder and for the dog's point of view. First off, as a breeder, my first concern is for my puppies. I personally have a rule of thumb that I do not place puppies in households with young children or a bunch of children..............this is for the safety of my puppy. Have I placed puppies with children.......yes I have........under the right circumstances. This puppy, that is currently being discussed, is in a *very* active household with 4 children, three of which are very young(4, 5, and 6). That puppy has probably been carried, and grabbed(not maliciously on purpose) and held more and possibly more tightly than it should have been. Small children do not know how to handle small animals gently.........this is a learned behavior and needs to be taught. The only defense that a puppy or a dog has is it's growl and, as a final result, a nip or worse.
> 
> Since the puppy is fairly new to it's home, I am sure there is a lot of excitement and attention from all of the children. Has anyone considered that in all of the excitement, that the puppy may have been accidentally hurt which has resulted in the current behavior?
> 
> ...


[attachment=35241:goodpost.gif]


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> I have been following this discussion since it started. I am going to speak as a breeder and for the dog's point of view. First off, as a breeder, my first concern is for my puppies. I personally have a rule of thumb that I do not place puppies in households with young children or a bunch of children..............this is for the safety of my puppy. Have I placed puppies with children.......yes I have........under the right circumstances. This puppy, that is currently being discussed, is in a *very* active household with 4 children, three of which are very young(4, 5, and 6). That puppy has probably been carried, and grabbed(not maliciously on purpose) and held more and possibly more tightly than it should have been. Small children do not know how to handle small animals gently.........this is a learned behavior and needs to be taught. The only defense that a puppy or a dog has is it's growl and, as a final result, a nip or worse.
> 
> Since the puppy is fairly new to it's home, I am sure there is a lot of excitement and attention from all of the children. Has anyone considered that in all of the excitement, that the puppy may have been accidentally hurt which has resulted in the current behavior?
> 
> ...


Oh, gosh... I agree with every single word you wrote!!!


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## Krystal (Feb 3, 2007)

I just want to say that the only reason I believe that she is looking to rehome Piolo because he is not a "perfect" maltese, is because of her prior posts, and the bold things she says in her original post!! all of her questions are about cosmetic issues!



> My sister wants to adopt Piolo and I'm still thinking about it.
> If I do decide to have him adopted. I will try to get my next Maltese from any of the top 10 Maltese Show Breeder.
> I will have to fly out there. Any recommendation?
> 
> ...


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

I also agree. I am just now reading this entire thread, as well as reading
a few other threads with regards to Piolo.

I feel sorry for the puppy. 

I would give him to the sister. He's still a puppy and should do well with
just your sister, if she has time for him. I'm afraid if he stays where he is,
bigger problems may occur, and he will be hard to place. That wouldn't be
fair to the little guy.

You shouldn't even consider another dog, until your kids are much older.


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## geslabon (Mar 3, 2008)

uh! how mean Kristal. That is not true. The first time I got Piolo.. I was inlove.. I just wanted to find out if he was a pure Maltese. I never had a Maltese before and from what I read, they should have black points. I did not even know that Piolo had a the bitting issue. Like I said in my previous post.. While I was writing my husband called and told me that he bit my daughter. Please don not say I will get rid of him. It sounds like I made up my mine. The reason for my post is to get an advice and I been getting good ones. It just hurt me when u say that. You dont know me and how I feel about Piolo. 
This is very hard for me. Esp. when my children are involve. and on top of that I found out about the breeder where I got him from. Thanks for all your help.


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## Vanitysmom (Jun 9, 2005)

> I just want to say that the only reason I believe that she is looking to rehome Piolo because he is not a "perfect" maltese, is because of her prior posts, and the bold things she says in her original post!! all of her questions are about cosmetic issues![/B]


There is no perfect dog!!!! Wish there was...........then there would be no reason to keep trying to breed the perfect dog....... :biggrin: 

As for her now trying to buy a "showdog" to be her pet...........that is not likely to happen. Firstly, most breeders are going to keep their showdogs to be shown. If she sets out to buy a showdog it will be a long haul to find a breeder willing to sell her one under her circumstances and it could be a very costly endevour.

One of my favorite Maltese bed-dogs was a rescue girl named Sheena. She was a big, homely girl that was the sweetest thing anyone could ever meet. She slept on my bed most of her life, along with Vanity, DeeDee, and Brutus. Sheena certainly had no clue that she was not as pretty as the rest of them.


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## Krystal (Feb 3, 2007)

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I know there is no "perfect" dog! In my opinion they are all perfect! They are adorable white fluffbutts who love you unconditionally and are ALWAYS excited to see you! Whats not perfect about that!?


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

> Since the puppy is fairly new to it's home, I am sure there is a lot of excitement and attention from all of the children. Has anyone considered that in all of the excitement, that the puppy may have been accidentally hurt which has resulted in the current behavior?[/B]


That was my thinking all along and why I asked the question, "did the puppy come acting this way or did it develop after the puppy came to them". Her response was it developed after the puppy had been with them for I'm thinking a week or 2? I was hoping she would or others would pick up on that since I felt I was probably being too bold by, going as far as telling her I think it is in the best interest of the puppy to be rehomed with her sister providing her sister isn't planning on having children and is willing to work through some of these issues and that getting another Maltese would not be the answer. And also that a Maltese is NOT the right breed for her and her family at this particular time. Guess I should have been bolder right from the get go. Personally, I was horrified that others were writing this poor puppy off as unstable due to poor breeding. Who knows what kind of response an inexperienced puppy owner will do after hearing something like that. We don't want to promote dumping puppies at the pound because they are diagnosed as unstable by people who are only hearing about the situation and not personally there to evaluate the puppy. But there are really good no kill breed specific rescuses that will not only take an unwanted puppy, but will be willing to work through behavioral issues and then find the perfect forever home for him. So if the OP is still reading this and you do not want to keep the puppy and if your sister is not the best place to rehome, then please pm me and I will get your baby into rescue.


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## Vanitysmom (Jun 9, 2005)

> I know there is no "perfect" dog! In my opinion they are all perfect! They are adorable white fluffbutts who love you unconditionally and are ALWAYS excited to see you! Whats not perfect about that!?[/B]


Too true!!!!!! Gotta love them for who they are :wub:


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

> I have been following this discussion since it started. I am going to speak as a breeder and for the dog's point of view. First off, as a breeder, my first concern is for my puppies. I personally have a rule of thumb that I do not place puppies in households with young children or a bunch of children..............this is for the safety of my puppy. Have I placed puppies with children.......yes I have........under the right circumstances. This puppy, that is currently being discussed, is in a *very* active household with 4 children, three of which are very young(4, 5, and 6). That puppy has probably been carried, and grabbed(not maliciously on purpose) and held more and possibly more tightly than it should have been. Small children do not know how to handle small animals gently.........this is a learned behavior and needs to be taught. The only defense that a puppy or a dog has is it's growl and, as a final result, a nip or worse.
> 
> Since the puppy is fairly new to it's home, I am sure there is a lot of excitement and attention from all of the children. Has anyone considered that in all of the excitement, that the puppy may have been accidentally hurt which has resulted in the current behavior?
> 
> ...


Finally somebody is defending the dog. I refrained to say something because it would have come out too harsh. You said it in a nice way. Thank you.


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

> I have been following this discussion since it started. I am going to speak as a breeder and for the dog's point of view. First off, as a breeder, my first concern is for my puppies. I personally have a rule of thumb that I do not place puppies in households with young children or a bunch of children..............this is for the safety of my puppy. Have I placed puppies with children.......yes I have........under the right circumstances. This puppy, that is currently being discussed, is in a *very* active household with 4 children, three of which are very young(4, 5, and 6). That puppy has probably been carried, and grabbed(not maliciously on purpose) and held more and possibly more tightly than it should have been. Small children do not know how to handle small animals gently.........this is a learned behavior and needs to be taught. The only defense that a puppy or a dog has is it's growl and, as a final result, a nip or worse.
> 
> Since the puppy is fairly new to it's home, I am sure there is a lot of excitement and attention from all of the children. Has anyone considered that in all of the excitement, that the puppy may have been accidentally hurt which has resulted in the current behavior?
> 
> ...


Excellent post! Thank you. :thumbsup:


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

I just wanted to add that I think this has been a really good thread with a very sensitive topic. I feel badly for the puppy and the family. Puppies are a lot of work. Even adult dogs from responsible show breeders can develop behavior problems and its our job as their owners to take the time to train them or hire professionals to help us train them. 

However, given that the puppy did bite a child, I do agree that it is not a bad idea to place the puppy with her sister who has no children and can give the dog the attention needed for training.

I also agree that a larger breed might be in order for the household - I grew up with a Bichon that we all adored and my parents now have a Havanese - both are amazing breeds, especially from responsible show breeders. They are beautiful toy breeds, just less fragile than a maltese. If you want to keep them "in coat", that will take work like a maltese, but they look adorable (like maltese) in puppy cuts. Neither dog sheds, both are hypoallergenic. And maybe get a dog that was held back for show but is not show quality - then it will be a bit older, a little more socialized & trained, and much less fragile than the puppy maltese.

Finally, JMM recommended this book in another thread and I recently got it and find it to be one of the best training books I've read yet: The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. I would recommend Piolo's mommy and potential mommy both read this book, its very helpful in dealing with some mild behavior issues that have cropped up in my fur babies (both from show breeders and with different issues). But you should still go to puppy training - its very good for socializing dogs with other dogs and reducing the chance of dog-aggression later on.

Anyway, you've gotten some really great advice in this thread and I wish you and your family and little Piolo good luck in getting everything resolved happily.


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## jazak (Feb 12, 2008)

> I have been following this discussion since it started. I am going to speak as a breeder and for the dog's point of view. First off, as a breeder, my first concern is for my puppies. I personally have a rule of thumb that I do not place puppies in households with young children or a bunch of children..............this is for the safety of my puppy. Have I placed puppies with children.......yes I have........under the right circumstances. This puppy, that is currently being discussed, is in a *very* active household with 4 children, three of which are very young(4, 5, and 6). That puppy has probably been carried, and grabbed(not maliciously on purpose) and held more and possibly more tightly than it should have been. Small children do not know how to handle small animals gently.........this is a learned behavior and needs to be taught. The only defense that a puppy or a dog has is it's growl and, as a final result, a nip or worse.
> 
> Since the puppy is fairly new to it's home, I am sure there is a lot of excitement and attention from all of the children. Has anyone considered that in all of the excitement, that the puppy may have been accidentally hurt which has resulted in the current behavior?
> 
> ...



I agree with everything that was said here. I hope that in my own posting earlier that I did not sound like I was dumping on OP. I do agree that maybe the puppy should be rehomed, but I don't think that it should be rehomed just to go out and get another that may end up with the same issues. I can tell you from experience that having a small dog and small kids can be exhausting. Constant, constant supervision is required, for the safety of both the children and the pup. Max is very good with my kids, but my kids are also very good with him. This did not happen over night. I waited 6 years until I felt that they had enough experience with small animals, and I had the time, and energy to be a constant supervisor. I don't think that the OP's children intentionaly hurt the pup, but I agree that maybe they didn't know that what they were doing made him very uncomfortable. Therefore the dog felt like he needed to protect himself. Who can blame a baby for wanting to protect himself? I tell my children all the time that if Max runs from them, or growls or nips, (he has never done the latter, but I still include that incase it were to ever come up for their safety) that they are to just back away and leave him alone for awhile. I tell them that if they are doing something that makes him uncomfortable he has no other means of communication to let them know to stop. That is not his fault.
It is not this puppy's fault either.


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## carolicious (Feb 25, 2008)

I just saw this topic, and there has been a lot of opinions voiced here and I agree with a lot of them. 

Even though I'm no expert, I would hope that you wait on getting another puppy even if you decide to give Piolo to your sister. Coby is the only puppy in our household and he takes our full attention and a lot of our time - so I don't know how you would be able to manage with your young children and birds and an aquarium to take care of. I think it would be better off for you to wait until you have that time to dedicate to raising a puppy and helping him overcome his behavioral issues rather than having to possibly go through a similar scenerio again.

I hope things work out for Piolo


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

Well, the one thing I can think to add to all the great things said here is, EVEN with getting a dog to show, things can, and do sometimes turn out wrong in some ways.

Show Quality does not = Perfection.

Besides, perfection on earth? Nope won't happen.

Melanie


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## Maxsmom (Aug 5, 2007)

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I'm sorry, but I'm in agreement with her. My first Malt was far from perfect, but I loved him and we worked out the kinks. It can be done and you will enjoy a wonderful, lasting relationship.

Chris
*
I am only one, but I am still one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. And because I cannot do everything I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.*- _Helen Keller_


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## Deborah (Jan 8, 2006)

At times as a puppy grows it may show traits that will not qualify the puppy to be shown. The teeth may not have come in just right. The puppy could be skittish and not quite have the personality to go in the show ring. A breeder could end up with more pups that he/she is able to show. Those are some of the reasons a top breeder will sell their puppies as a pet quality pup.
I am really surprised that you were allowed to buy a Maltese with as many small children as you have. Most breeders will not sell a Maltese to anyone with small children.

You sound as if you really love this little boy. I would continue the training of him and your small children. I know that many Maltese owners are grandparents and have specific rules as to how and where their grandchildren can handle their dogs. For the safety of your puppy you need to have rules in place for how your children will interact with this Little guy. He is just a baby too so there is a learning curve for all who have an invested interest in this little guy.

My very best wishes for this to turn out to be a happy life for your puppy and family.


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## geslabon (Mar 3, 2008)

Please see this for the latest update on Piolo. Thanks!
<a href="http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32880" target="_blank">
</a>http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32880


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