# A shock/suprise



## missiek (Jan 2, 2010)

A little background...my family and I went on a vacation for a week at the beginning of September and had our neighbor watching our malts, golden, and cats. When we came home I noticed Terra had started her first heat cycle while we were gone...and told my husband while we were unpacking. Somehow Triniti and Terra were let out together and I found them tied a little while later. I freaked and told everyone not to let him near her...things were going well and I thought we made it through the heat without her getting pregnant.

Well her belly has started to enlarge as well as her nipples so I took her in to my vet and he took an xray and saw nothing. So he did an ultra sound and low and behold there were 2 precious puppies. He says that the tie I found them in must not have been the one that impregnanted her because the puppies weren't that far along in gestation. He said it looks like it was a week after that that Terra and Triniti must have tied. 

I thought I was so careful but apparently they still managed to get together. I know she is too young and I swear I didn't do this on purpose and feel so terrible about it.  

But what's done is done and I swore to my vet and to her that I will do everything I can to make sure both she and her puppies are taken care of. I *literally* am next door neighbors to my vet and he said that he will be there for me whenever I need him day or night and will be with me when she starts to go into labor and if needed, will be there for a c section if she cannot deliver naturally.

Terra is going back to see him in 10 days to get another xray for a more accurate count of puppies and their position in the uterus. He will also examine her to see if he feels like she could whelp naturally. If not then we are just going to schedule a c section. 

I already spoke with my breeder and she is also going to be there for me and had me take down a page of notes on whelping and taking care of Terra now and later....and the whelping box and supplies, etc.

I wanted her to be my foundation bitch, but not this soon. I have to admit though I am excited about the puppies and hoping one of them will be my show puppy. I felt like a grandma seeing them on the ultra sound moving around with their little heart beating. It was so precious. :wub: 

So ladies (and gentlemen), I am asking for support. I know I should have somehow done a better job at protecting Terra when she was in heat. I know some of you will be upset and I understand that you only want what's best for Terra and the puppies. I promise I am doing everything I can to make sure she is healthy. I won't hesistate to do a c section on her if there is any doubt or hint of trouble. I trust my vet completely and trust you ladies to be there for me. I love all of you and look forward to sharing this journey with you.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Oh, I'm so very sorry. I hope she will be OK.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Are you showing Triniti and Terra when you say you wanted Terra to be your foundation bitch? I guess I'm a little out of the loop on SM!!

I hope Terra and her pups do okay...


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## donnad (Aug 22, 2006)

Good luck with everything and hope all goes well.


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## uniquelovdolce (Mar 10, 2010)

oh wow , i hope everything turns out ok as well.


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## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

Dear Kelly,

This is your business. Who are we to pass judgement on you? What you need now, is support.

Accidents happen in life, we’re all human. G-d knows I’ve had my share - so, we learn from them, and move forward.

You know what is best for your fluffs and your family.

I wish you all the best,

Allie


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

I'm so sorry to hear about this. Accidents happen though. I'm glad that your next door neighbor is your Vet!! Good luck!!


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## missiek (Jan 2, 2010)

princessre said:


> Are you showing Triniti and Terra when you say you wanted Terra to be your foundation bitch? I guess I'm a little out of the loop on SM!!
> 
> I hope Terra and her pups do okay...


Yes Triniti is my daughter's junior showmanship dog. He is show quality and I was also showing him in American Bred Dog this summer. While we were away on another vacation, triniti became so matted that I had to cut him down so we are letting his hair grow out...I was going to have my daughter show him anyway with the short coat, just for the experience...but then everything with my Mom started happening. The local kennel club is starting up again soon so hopefully we can both start conformation classes.

Terra was my show female. But she has always been really shy outside of the house. I took her to Puppy training and she has been with me to several shows (not in the ring) and right now she's still too shy, so I was going to wait until she was around 2 and breed her and hopefully get my show dog from one of her puppies. 

Allie, once again you show your sweet, compassionate side and I do appreciate it. Honestly I was afraid to post about Terra's pregnancy because I was expecting negative comments. And like I said I totally understand because we are all on SM because we love the fluffs and I know you all care about all fluffs and want only the best. I am the same way and know ultimately it was 100% my responsibility to keep her from being bred...and I failed in that. I know it would have been better to wait until she was over 18 months (and I wanted a champion stud). But what's done is done and thank the Lord we have the means to care for her and afford a c section if neccessary!


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Congrats! I hope everything goes smoothly with her delivery!

How far along does your vet think she is? I wouldnt' do another xray until she is about 58 days. When did her heat cycle start? What day? You can kind of guestimate from there. 

Now that Terra is in the family way, I would not let your younger kids pick her up anymore. I would limit it to you, your hubby (if he's comfortable picking her up) and Malayah. She is more bulky and they could easily drop her, not used to the extra bulk. You have to be VERY careful. When I have a bitch that is going ot have puppies, NOBODY gets to pick her up beside Marina and I. I just refuse to take the risk. I know how much your little ones love Terra, but for her safety (and the puppies) that is one rule I would enforce. And because they love Terra so much, that will be a hard one for you!!

Good luck with everything!


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## bellasmummy (Apr 8, 2009)

Hi Kelly

Sorry to hear that this has happened when it wasnt planned but nobody here has the right to judge you so dont feel you have to say sorry to anyone here . I know what some can be like with things like this but it does sound as though your going to be doing everything right. Besides... in the last 10 years ive learnt that many ''well thought of breeders'' are realy not so great afterall 
best of luck with it all and keep us updated xxxx


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Kelly - I'm hoping that all goes well with Terra and her puppies. She seems so young to have pups of her own. I'm not quite sure how you were going to guard against her becoming pregnant until she was two, when you have an intact male in the house. To me it seems like playing with fire, but what's done is done. I'm glad that you have a vet you can count on and info from SM.My thoughts are with little Terra.


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## suzimalteselover (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm glad you have a good support system with your vet nearby, your breeder, and SM. I wish you all the best, and I hope Terra has a safe delivery and healthy babies.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

What happens to the pups? Does Dian get them? Doesn't she own the male? I'm really confused by all of this. It's almost impossible to have an intact male loose and not have the female impregnated. I'm so sorry for little Terra.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Snowbody said:


> I'm not quite sure how you were going to guard against her becoming pregnant until she was two, when you have an intact male in the house.





Cosy said:


> It's almost impossible to have an intact male loose and not have the female impregnated.


When I saw the thread last night with Terra and Trinity's Halloween pictures, my first thought was that I wondered how long it would be before there was an accidental pregnancy.

Poor Terra. I pray she comes through this safely. She's just a baby herself.


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Sending thoughts and prayers that everything does work out just fine with Terra and the pups. .....and that you do end up with your show dog.


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## missiek (Jan 2, 2010)

Believe me I was not expecting her to go into heat the very week we are gone on vacation and I should have anticipated it but I didn't. Then the chaos of getting back home and my Mom being life flighted to the hospital with a stroke didn't help either.

Triniti is still intact because I was going to show him. But he was given to Malayah to be her junior show dog and because of that fact, I am getting him neutered...too little too late. After the initial tie I kept them in separate areas of the house...or one was in the crate while the other was out. But I also have 5 other people in the house and I am sure one of them was let out with the other (obviously). 

Stacy...she went into heat while we were gone so it was the first week of September...but the vet is thinking she didn't get pregnant until the second week.

Brit, Dian and I co-own Triniti and Terra but she and I already talked and the puppies will be mine ( the paperwork states that we share ownership until Terra got her championship). She only asked that, regardless of show quality or not, they be adopted as pets. So I am keeping the puppies and neutering Triniti (and Dian will sign him over fully to me since he won't be shown except for juniors) and if I do find someone who wants to adopt one of the puppies I will talk with Stacy and others to make SURE I have all of the correct procedures down and a contract with the correct language. 

But the rudamentory idea is this;

I am keeping the puppies. If someone wants to adopt one:
A. They won't be adoptable until they are 16 weeks or older
B. I will have them wormed, vaccinated and altered BEFORE they go to a new home
C. I would like to inspect the new home enviroment and occupents prior to adoption
D. A contract stating that I guarantee their health and to return the puppy to me should the person be unable to keep them
I know I am missing other points but you guys get my drift.

I was responsible for this accident and I am going to be a responsible person and do the best for Terra and the puppies. She is on high quality puppy food (canned and dry). I also give her scrambled eggs or hardboiled eggs for added protein. The kids haven't been allowed to pick her up for a long time...But now she is currently in my round pen with food, water, and her bed. I am going to keep her quiet in the round pen with minimal disturbance from now until her babies come. Only my husband and myself are handling her. 

I know she is just a baby, and I had no intention of this happening. But as others have stated, having Triniti in the same house it was playing with fire. I thought I could handle that situation but obviously I couldn't. At least I am doing my best for her and making sure it won't happen again. I will let you all know when Triniti's appointment for his neuter will be. 

I do appreciate the support.


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

oh yikes! I am so sorry for Terra - I really hope she doesn't run into problems - she's only a baby


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Is your husband agreeable to keeping the puppies? I know you told us just a few weeks ago that you had to get rid of Noel because he didn't want four dogs and all the barking and the mess involved.


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## missiek (Jan 2, 2010)

Yes he is Marj and only wants the best homes for them if we do find homes...I know we gave Noel away for those reasons and I know the puppies will cause those same problems. but I have put my foot down so to speak and told him what I told you. That I am going to be responsible and see this through so that all dogs involved will have the best life possible. (believe me I still ache for Noel, and saw her the other day and she is spoiled rotten living the high life and my friend can't imagine life without her).

BTW, I just made an appointment for Triniti's neuter after talking with my breeder (to make sure its okay with her...the co-owner) and she agreed.

So please keep Triniti in your prayers tomorrow. i told you all I was going to be responsible and I am fixing this so that it never happens again.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Oh no!!!!! poor Terra. I can't imagine Lola being pregnant, at 15 months she still seems a puppy.

I hope all goes well. Glad your vet is very close.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Did Dian tell you to put her on puppy food or your vet? I NEVER have my pregnant girls on puppy food - only give it to them AFTER they whelp. My vet told me to put them on puppy food when they are pregnant and I just nodded and ignore what was said. 

If it was your vet who told you to do this, ask Dian's opinion.

Also, I really do not see the need for another xray next week, she'd only be about what... 47 days? What day did you actually see them tie? Sometimes it takes longer for the eggs to be fertilized, so it is possible that witnessed tie is what did it. Xrays are risky enough without doing them before the skeletons are visable. Ultrasound is a safer way to go, if you are just wanting puppy counts.

I will keep Triniti in my thoughts tomorrow for his neutering appt!


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## missiek (Jan 2, 2010)

Stacy, Dian said the same thing about the xrays. I think i will take her in for a recheck but not do the xray. Dian just said she doesn't give her females vitamins but she does give puppy food right before birth.

I have her on Wellness for puppies dry and canned.


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## mary-anderson (Jan 12, 2010)

All you can do now is take care of Terra. :wub: Hope everything works out for your little girl.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm not sure of the "why" behind puppy vs. adult food, but since I feed puppy food year-round to my dogs it's not an issue. I've been advised by a number of people to increase calories the last few weeks and I've done that without problem. As for the accident, whenever an intact dog and a bitch in season live under the same roof things CAN happen so keep that in mind if you keep any boy puppies from your upcoming litter and feel free to PM any of us who breed if you want some ideas on what we do to keep dogs separated. I'm happy and relieved that you are receiving good support from both your breeder and your vet.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Kelly -- I feel your pain. I've never really shared this, but when I was showing and breeding Lhasas, I ONCE had an accidental breeding. I was out of town on business, and DH was suppose to be watching the dogs. Now, by this time, I had been breeding for over 15 years, so he certainly knew the routine.

The 9 month old bitch that I was showing was in season and he "accidentally" let her sire who was one of my "house dogs" out when she was out exercising. Needless to say -- we had a very, very, very unplanned litter of 7 puppies (wouldn't you know it). I normally had 3 puppies to a litter, but she had 7. 2 did not survive, but we did end up with 5 puppies. All were petted out to good homes but without any papers. This is a litter that I did not register. 

I was tramatized for the female as she was just a baby herself and had no idea what was going on nor did she know what to do as a mom. I felt as if I had let my 12 year old daughter get raped (for example). This did end up changing Cassie's personality and I was not able to get her back into the ring. I ended up spaying her and placing her as a pet. It was very hard on both Cassie and me -- and probably hardest on DH as it was totally his fault, and I never let him forget it.

Out of my almost 30 years of breeding, this is the only unplanned litter that I had, but I know of many breeders that have had unplanned litters over the years.

Please do not xray Terra again until 3-4 days until her due date. As far as puppy food, I usually put my mom's on it about 5 days before they're due to whelp, and then feed them puppy food until the puppies are weaned.

Good luck with the litter. I will say prayers that all goes well for Terra and that it is an easy whelping. Also sending prayers for Triniti's neuter tomorrow.

Kelly -- accidents happen to all of us. You're doing the responsible thing. So don't beat yourself up. Hugs.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

missiek said:


> Stacy, Dian said the same thing about the xrays. I think i will take her in for a recheck but not do the xray. Dian just said she doesn't give her females vitamins but she does give puppy food right before birth.
> 
> I have her on Wellness for puppies dry and canned.


I'm actually surprised that your vet did an xray first, ultrasound second. In early gestation, xrays increase risk of issues, just like in humans. For pregnancy confirmation, an ultrasound would have been the test of choice, I would think. 

I would take 'right before birth' to mean right before, not weeks before. Here is an article on why it is not a good idea

_NO CALCIUM SUPPLEMENTS FOR PREGNANT BITCHES

By MYRA SAVANT, December 11, 2006:

Ok. I will go over this calcium thing once again..... I meet with a certain amount of resistance to this information every time I post it, which gets discouraging. What I am going to say about calcium is not simply my casual opinion, it is pure scientific fact. Do you all know how dangerous tobacco is? And yet you hear of 90 year old 3 pack a day smokers who live long lives and never get cancer? They are the exception; not the rule. 

Breeders who can supplement their bitches with calcium and never run into problems are the exception; not the rule. Calcium is exactly what I say it is.......and then you have your exceptions.....and the exceptions get very verbal and usually want to challenge the truth of what I am presenting to you. 

I even run into breeders who say: "well, yes, I do feed the raw diet and two of my last three deliveries were c-sections, but it wasn't because of the diet. It was because of a big puppy, badly positioned puppy etc." 

No, it was because of the calcium levels of your diet. That's why the bitch couldn't push out the big puppy and why her contractions couldn't reposition the sideways puppy or whatever. 

Calcium is about muscle contractibility far more than it is about bones and teeth. It causes muscle to be able to contract smoothly and strongly. Oxytocin is about timing. It sets up the timing for the contractions and determines when they start and when they end. It alters the cell wall of the muscle cell to allow calcium to enter the cell and let it cause the cell fiber to contract. They work in tandem as a well-oiled and rehearsed machine.

If you supplement your bitch with calcium while she is gestating, this includes a raw diet with raw bones, puppy kibble, cottage cheese, yogurt, pet tabs or any other source of calcium, you run a high rish of altering the ph of the mother's blood. 

If the ph is altered, the hormone secreted by the para-thyroid gland will do a less than efficient job of causing the release of calcium from the bones of the bitch when she needs calcium for strong contractions. The higher ph level will render the hormone from the parathyroid gland to be virtually useless. That hormone is the facilitator for releasing extra calcium out of the bones when the bitch needs it for uterine contractions.

The result will be: inertia, inability to push out a puppy, inability for the uterine muscle to contract appropriately to bring about the repositioning of the puppy for delivery. 

Following delivery, the decreased calcium level will cause the mother to be unable to figure out how to mother. She may lick incessantly, bark or growl at her puppies or lie on her tummy refusing to allow them to nurse. A few days into the post partum time, she may go into eclampsia, which is a seizure disorder caused by low calcium levels. 

AGAIN......these problems generally stem from the calcium that is fed to the mother while she is gestating. 

If you never supplement but feed your dog a good quality, mid-priced kibble designed for all adult dogs (not puppies or gestating moms) and you do not supplement with anything, chances are very, very good that your mom's ability to pull out calcium from her bones for those times when she needs extra calcium for uterine contractions, parenting skills and production of milk.....will be intact. In other words, it is when we tamper that we run into problems. Give not a shred of extra calcium to the gestating bitch. 

Keep Calsorb on hand to use during whelping to encourage stronger contractions, Give it generously to the brand new mom and you will see her parenting skills return to her within 15 minutes or so, and keep it on top of the puppy pen in case your bitch goes into eclampsia. 

However.....if you simply never tamper with the calcium intake, chances are good you'll never need to supplement it at all. If you don't tamper, the parathyroid gland and its hormone will provide the extra calcium at those times when it is needed. 

Just don't tamper.....no cottage cheese. 

Myra _

Myra will be the guest speaker at this year's Nationals - I eagerly await her seminar! There is a reproduction group on yahoo, you should join
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CanineReproPuppyCare/files/
I don't know if you can access those files, but if you join the group, much of this stuff is MUST READ


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

Just out of curiosity, I looked to see what food Rebecca Remillard, a veterinary nutritionist from petdiets.com recommended for a pregnant bitch and I found this Q&A (I copied and pasted it in its entirety):



QuestionWhat is be best nutritional diet for a pregnant cockapoo?AnswerThe nutritional requirements increase in the last trimester by only 10%. So you should at that time begin feeding a diet designed for growth or puppies. Feed this diet to both the bitch and puppies through until weaning the pups.
*Rebecca Remillard, Ph.D., D.V.M., DACVN*


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Stacy -- I agree about the xray. I've NEVER had an xray done before 3-4 days prior to birth. I've used ultrasounds if I needed too, earlier in the pregnancy.


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

Per the following article from the University of Missouri, x-rays are the most accurate for determining canine pregnancy in the last tri-mester. I did note that the article hadn't been reviewed since 1993.:


G9923 Pregnancy Determination in the Bitch | University of Missouri Extension




Joy


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

Good luck with your new litter, Kelly. Dogs were made to have puppies it is their goal in life. We are the ones who make it other wise.


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## Maltbabe (Oct 10, 2010)

*I know the feeling*

Hi:

I know how you feel .... something similar happened to me :smilie_tischkante: I was devastated and worried to death. Mimie is only 5 lbs and I worried and prayed the 62 days she was carrying. I took vacation time at work the week she was due and cried when I saw her in pain, panting and shivering. Thank God she did it herself. No c-section I just rubbed the babies and placed them on the heating pad and made sure they were breathing ok.

I hope your baby does well :innocent: I read a LOT to help my baby.


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## TB.TL (Oct 13, 2010)

I hope your pup and her pups are all healthy and OK.


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## angel's mom (Feb 14, 2007)

How old is your little girl? Sounds like you are on top of things. Hope it all goes well.


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## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

Best wishes to you and the fluffs Kelly.

Allie


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## Rocky's Mom (Apr 10, 2010)

Kelly, I hope all goes well for you and your pups.


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## Delilahs Mommy (Nov 22, 2009)

Best wishes Kelly to Mama and babies!!!


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## mfa (Oct 5, 2009)

so sorry baby Terra is going through all this, really hope all turns out ok.


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## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

Best wishes for everyone Kelly.


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