# My Lily's test results..need help!



## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

All of Lily's test results are in-everything is blessedly NORMAL. My vet cannot find anything wrong. Lily had her first stool since Wednesday this morning. She is on Flagyl 2X per day. The first half was normal, and the second half was diarrhea. I had to bathe her. She has been eating eggs 4X per day. When I called my vet, it felt as if she bailed out on me. She wants me to have an ultrasound. I'm not sure I should do this... should I try another vet, have the ultrasound? I don't know what to do!:crying:


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## romeo&juliet (Jun 23, 2011)

Oh April i feel for you and i can hear the concern and worry in your words i can offer you some hugs and kisses to both lilly and you hoping that will be of some comfort.. You do whatever you think is best if getting a second opinion is what will help your mind at ease and also make sure that lilly will be ok i would do it. Your MoM and we do whatever to get ur kids well. Your feelings and concerns are valid and dont let anyone make you feel otherwise. Like your vet. I have changed vets and dont regret it and i feel so different with this vet than i did my last vet actually its great to really trust what your vet says if your questioning or doubting than either they are not anwering your questions and the answers are not satisfying the concern. Bottom line hope Lilly gets better and you get the much stress and woriness removed by doing what ou need to do.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

The flagyl always starts out like that. Did for both my girls recently where they go 2 to 3 days before they can go. Stool to still be that soft is odd though, I was wondering if you know for sure that she usually does well on eggs? It isn't always the easiest food for some. I think I would do the ultrasound myself, see what is going on. If you aren't feeling good about your vet though, that isn't good. If you have all the results at hand for the tests, maybe you could get a second opinion.


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## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

I think there are two important questions to ask. (1) what is the purpose of the ultrasound? More clearly - what might your vet think she/he will see that might help Lilly that the bloodwork and exams has not uncovered or explained? And (2) do you think you need a second opinion?


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Hunter's Mom said:


> I think there are two important questions to ask. (1) what is the purpose of the ultrasound? More clearly - what might your vet think she/he will see that might help Lilly that the bloodwork and exams has not uncovered or explained? And (2) do you think you need a second opinion?


Erin, good thinking. My vet's answer, the ultrasound is the "next step." This tells me that she doesn't really know!:angry: She had nothing to say when I asked about the antibiotic or feeding her eggs.:angry: I'm really mad at her..she has been my vet for 10 years-and I feel like she is just throwing her hands up and just throwing something to do out there.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

April, I just went through a bad period with Ray, and finally concluded that he was stressed and anxious over changes in our routine. I stopped coddling him when he was acting weird, but made certain to give him double attention and affection otherwise. You are so stressed and Lily certainly is picking it up. You know from the tests that her organs are all fine. I won't suggest what YOU should do now, but this is what I would do...All the problems began when you started to change her diet. I would gradually go back to the kibble you were feeding her before the trouble started. And I would try to do more of the things that she thinks are fun. For MiMi that would mean having friends she likes come over to visit.
I would also talk to Josy and what she has to say. Maybe she has had a similar experience.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I'd do the ultrasound. She is trying to find out what is wrong, so an ultrasound might help her. To me it sounds like a stress related reaction. Maybe your mention of another pup upset her. (just kidding!) A second opinion can't hurt although they may order more tests too. I would give the Flagyl a few days to see if it changes anything. As far as foods, poultry can be a culprit.


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## harrysmom (Sep 28, 2007)

When Harry was sick at first, my regular vet had no idea what to do. I brought him to Cornell and they pointed me in the right direction. Now Harry goes to an internal medicine specialist. Maybe you could try to bring Lily to a specialist in your area. Ultrasounds are non-invasive, but they're expensive. My regular vet did an ultrasound on Harry and the internal medicine guy wanted to do his own, because he said that with ultrasounds, in particular, the skill of the technician is very important. So if you were thinking of getting a second opinion, I would wait on the ultrasound.

Please keep us posted on what you decide and how Lily is doing.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Oh, April. I can't even imagine your frustration. What part of Lily are they planning to ultrasound? Is there a really good veterinary teaching hospital near you? Just wondering if she needs a specialist (gastro) who might be more familiar with her issues to guide you. I don't like that your vet seems to be downplaying your concern. I would think it would make her more resolved to figure it out even if it means consulting with a specialist or someone else. After all she's been with you for 10 years. Wonder if you should let her know how she's making you feel? Maybe she doesn't realize. Sending love and hugs to you.


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## donnad (Aug 22, 2006)

Just want to let you know that I hope Lily will be feeling well soon.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

First the good news: "Yay God!"
Secondly--your feelings of frustration. If you really like your vet (which I seem to think you do/did) then I would trust her judgment here and go w/the ultra sound. Then you will know (for sure) if there is something they are not seeing in the tests (maybe she swallowed something that you don't know about?). The vet has to move step by step to rule stuff out.
I know how you feel about frustration w/non-diagnosis, believe me! For Lily's sake it is probably best just to keep at it until you really do need to move on to another professional opinion.
I concur that a good vet school may be your least expensive route in the end.
Wish I could deliver a big hug!


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

I am not opposed to an ultrasound, I had one done on my Noah who was very ill with liver disease. Before I spend all that money though, I would want to have more to go on than "it's the next step." Lily does not act ill. She barks, plays, is alert, and has a good appetite. I did talk to her breeder and she suggested to continue with the Metronidazole, add one thing to the egg if she is tolerating them(like plain potato), continue with the digestive enzymes & probiotic, and add a little plain yogurt. Then she said try getting her back on kibble. She said her dogs do best on a kibble moderate protein diet with some high-quality grain.(barley) She feeds Fromm Gold to her dogs, so I am going to try getting Lily back on that.(that's what she was eating when I got her) Actually, all of this started when my vet put them on Wellness Core. That's another thing I'm mad about. I'm open to any and all suggestions... thanks, everyone.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Oh Weh!
My vet & I have agreed to disagree about what Kitzel eats, and we had some . . . ahem :smilie_tischkante:---hearty discussions before reaching this agreement! I like it that I can be open w/my vet and that she will press a point she considers important. Honestly, I find Europeans less threatened than Americans on almost all issues! (Apology to my US heritage!):back2topic:
It sounds like you have a plan April---I know you will do what you think is best for Lily :tender::tender:and we support you in that decision! 
Keep us posted & kisses to that baby.:smootch:


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Tough choices. The first thing my vet said though with diarrhea is to not give any kibble whatsoever. Keep on the bland diet. I found sweet potato to be a bit better tolerated than white though. Not sure about giving yogurt because I think the metronidozole would kill any benefits and the lactose could cause problems. I usually give yogurt and probiotics after the Metronidozole has finished. Or just give mega probiotics on their own. 

Even though she acts well, the loss of weight and constant diarrhea is a serious concern IMO. I am thinking if it were me I would probably continue with the Metronidozole and bland diet until finished and if still diarrhea then I would probably get the US. Not sure about the egg. She may be not tolerating them if she still had diarrhea.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Exactly what bloodwork was done?


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

If this all started with a change in food it might just be that Lily is reacting poorly to some ingredient in the new food. I just looked at the ingredients in the Wellness Core Original (dry kibble) and saw that it's all poultry-based. I have had a couple of dogs over the years that did not do well on turkey or chicken. No one in my house gets poultry any more. Maybe you should try introducing the old food back into her diet and see what happens.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

chem/blood panel(liver, kidneys, etc) , CBC, GI function tests(to Texas A&M), cTLI, cobaliman/folate, fecal for parasites including giardia, all negative, all normal.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Oh gosh, praying for your baby. I do have to agree, in looking into what see is eating. My Mia has a sensitive belly and must stay on a consistent diet, that agrees with her. I defintely would follow your breeders advice, see how the diet works, but I also would not rule out an Ultra Sound, but would try to get her back to the diet that did work for her. She sounds wonderfully healthy otherwise.

As far as your vet, "throwing her hands up in the air", the feeling you got. Sorry, If it were me, nope, that would not be my babies vet. That's just me.

Sure sounds diet related, if you can get her back to what did work for her, I hope that does the trick. I'm not sure about all the eggs.

Switching foods always of course has to be a gradual process, there is a all natural product, called Eagle pack Holistic transition, that you can sprinkle on their food, that helps with the transition. I used it for my babies, (Mia and Leo) and did not have any problems. So I would consider the diet, see how that goes, and if you don't see improvement, I would consider the Ultra sound. Praying for your little one.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

April -- I know how frustrated you must be and am sending lots of hugs and prayers your way.

As many have said, I would look for a teaching hospital and go for a 2nd opinion from a specialist. (For me, that would mean going up to Denver which about 8 hours away by car, but, to me it would be worth it.)


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

silverhaven said:


> Tough choices. The first thing my vet said though with diarrhea is to not give any kibble whatsoever. Keep on the bland diet. I found sweet potato to be a bit better tolerated than white though. Not sure about giving yogurt because I think the metronidozole would kill any benefits and the lactose could cause problems. I usually give yogurt and probiotics after the Metronidozole has finished. Or just give mega probiotics on their own.
> 
> Even though she acts well, the loss of weight and constant diarrhea is a serious concern IMO. I am thinking if it were me I would probably continue with the Metronidozole and bland diet until finished and if still diarrhea then I would probably get the US. Not sure about the egg. She may be not tolerating them if she still had diarrhea.


I am continuing to feed a bland diet and will not start the yogurt & probiotics until the antibiotic is finished. She only has 1-2 stools per day and part of it is normal. Only a portion of it is diarrhea or undigested food.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

allheart said:


> Oh gosh, praying for your baby. I do have to agree, in looking into what see is eating. My Mia has a sensitive belly and must stay on a consistent diet, that agrees with her. I defintely would follow your breeders advice, see how the diet works, but I also would not rule out an Ultra Sound, but would try to get her back to the diet that did work for her. She sounds wonderfully healthy otherwise.
> 
> As far as your vet, "throwing her hands up in the air", the feeling you got. Sorry, If it were me, nope, that would not be my babies vet. That's just me.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much! I think you gave great advice and this is what I am thinking, too.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Lacie's Mom said:


> April -- I know how frustrated you must be and am sending lots of hugs and prayers your way.
> 
> As many have said, I would look for a teaching hospital and go for a 2nd opinion from a specialist. (For me, that would mean going up to Denver which about 8 hours away by car, but, to me it would be worth it.)



Actually, I think I need a new vet, too. Thank you, Lynn.:wub:


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

My breeder told me that Dr. Dodd has developed a new test called "Nutriscan" that tests for food intolerances in the diet using saliva. The test kit can be ordered online and returned to Dr. Dodd for analysis. Has anyone heard of this or tried it?


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

April -- I vaguely remember reading an article about this test. It might have been on SM or on the internet. Can't remember anything specific about it.


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## poochie2 (Jan 14, 2010)

April you got some real good advice and opinions. I Love SM

Firstly I am so happy to hear all the tests were good. Maybe the ultrasound is not needed because this sounds like it is either 1. Food related or 2. stress related.
Fromm is a great food and IMO Wellness pet food is horrible and Wellness Core is even worse. Again I say to you this is my opinion ! I have heard of numerous people stating how their pet had vomitting or diareah with Wellness. My malt cannot tolerate anything with the Wellness name. I have no idea why. I would go ahead and give the Fromm kibble a try.
I am so hoping your sweet girl finds a food that best matches her needs.:wub:


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

poochie2 said:


> April you got some real good advice and opinions. I Love SM
> 
> Firstly I am so happy to hear all the tests were good. Maybe the ultrasound is not needed because this sounds like it is either 1. Food related or 2. stress related.
> Fromm is a great food and IMO Wellness pet food is horrible and Wellness Core is even worse. Again I say to you this is my opinion ! I have heard of numerous people stating how their pet had vomitting or diareah with Wellness. My malt cannot tolerate anything with the Wellness name. I have no idea why. I would go ahead and give the Fromm kibble a try.
> I am so hoping your sweet girl finds a food that best matches her needs.:wub:


Thank you! I love SM, too.:wub: I don't think Wellness is a bad food at all. Some dogs do fine with it. I will say that IMHO, high protein, high fat, diets are probably not a good idea for most Maltese. I just need a better vet.:HistericalSmiley:


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## Rocky's Mom (Apr 10, 2010)

April, I can understand your concern and frustration:smmadder:...I would be going NUTS if this were Rocky. I think I'd get the ultrasound done and then if nothing shows I would switch Vets. Does your vet want to ultrasound her stomach? I would ask for more details first. Oh April, I'm so sorry you are going through this..hang in there. As far as all the eggs...I'm not sure why your vet wants her on that many eggs..I'm assuming for the protein, but boy oh boy that would be constipating. Can you try chicken and rice? I personally like the way Rocky is on Wellness. I've never had a problem with it. He just is picky, so he stops eating whatever i give him after a while. I'm sure you are very upset with the weight loss...poor Lily...gosh April, I wish I could tell you what to do for sure...but we are not vets...I'd just go by my motherly instinct. That's all I can say sweetie.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

aprilb said:


> Thank you! I love SM, too.:wub: I don't think Wellness is a bad food at all. Some dogs do fine with it. I will say that IMHO, high protein, high fat, diets are probably not a good idea for most Maltese. I just need a better vet.:HistericalSmiley:


April, that is not your fault at all about your vet. Not saying the vet is good or bad, you just have that Mommy instinct. When we moved from the city to the suburbs, it took me a good bit of time to find the right vet. And now I am so blessed that I did. You will too. Just follow what your breeder says, see what happens, in the mean time, do some research, of vets in your area. See if they specialize in small dogs. Just to have something to fall back on.

I am a HUGE poo watcher , and boy I know whose poo is whose. It's such a great indicator. There are certain things Mia's belly just can not tolerate and it would show in her stools. Hugs to you and your beautiful babies.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

I'm chiming in on the ultrasound, too. I think it would be a good idea to rule out any issues with her organs.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

One thought about poultry - when I first adopted Tessa, Sweetness was on Fromm chicken a la veg, so I put Tessa on it too. After a week or so she started having "poo problems" which turned into full blown colitis and then HGE. She acted fine and every time it would start I put her on hamburger and rice and she would very quickly return to normal poo. Then I'd start to mix back in the Fromm and she would start having problems again. After a very long summer with a couple of very scary episodes, I put her on lamb and rice and she has been fine ever since.


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## RudyRoo (Jun 24, 2011)

As is with most questions like this, I don't have much advice to provide but I can send prayers your way for some answers. Sounds like you have done everything in your power thus far, and I know you will continue to do so until your baby gets better. I know the ultrasound is probably so expensive, but it might also be a peace of mind thing. Maybe that is what your vet meant by "It's the next step." Heck, sometimes the best outcome is to pay money for a procedure only to find out nothing is wrong, right? I think though that as long as she is not having any other problems then the ultrasound doesn't need to be done immediately. Trying out some of the ideas from your breeder first sounds like a good next step to me. (I could actually have no idea what I am talking about though since I've only had the honor of being a dog parent for 5 months.) Go with your gut. What does it say?


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Just adding my 2-cents with the experience I have with my Quincy. He has a very sensitive tummy and added in he has to be on a very low fat food due to his having formed fatty deposits in his eyes.
When he came to me he was on a high-premium grain free diet which apparently agreed with him 'poo-wise" but it had high fat content.( thus the fatty deposits in eyes). Also blood panel showed some highs in protein, triglycerides, and a few others I don't recall right now. 
We had to do a bit of 'trial & error' in switching foods as we ran into runny, mucousy, bloody stools ( bouts of colitis) . 
We ended up with "Chicken Soup for the Dog lovers Soul/ the Adult Lite formula....( has nice low fat content) BUT I have to add some of the Science diet WD canned ( abt 1/4 cup) from the vets for some high fiber. This seems to 'fit' his system well. 
I had tried giving the fiber by giving pumpkin, but it wasn't working well ( or maybe I wasn't giving enough) but finding the WD did indeed firm up those poos I've stuck with that. His follow up blood panels have come back almost perfect. 
Now I will say I , too, do poo-patrol all the time and on occasion he's had a softer poo, or I'll see a bit of mucous, so I just add a bit more WD and it seems to get things back to normal.
Once back to normal I go back to the reg portion of WD.

I also think Quincy has a bit of 'stress-related' poo issues, and the cause of the occasional softer abnormal poos. He spends so much time with me that when I leave them , say to go shopping, my hubby says it's now Quincy who lays and 'cries/moans' when I'm gone. It used to be Naddie who had severe separation anxiety when she first came to me. She's OK with that now... and though Quincy isn't 'severe' in that respect... I think he gets stressed when I leave and it's reflected in his 'poo'.

BTW, one of the first food changes I did with him from the premium food was Wellness ( canned) . It didn't agree with him and at first I thought maybe it was the 'chicken' he was allergic to ( though his premium food was chicken so unlikely) and tried other flavors but still no good. It had lower fat content than premium but simply didn't agree with him. I tried Merrick with no improvement either. It was the ChickenSoupFDLS and WD that ended up doing the trick.

So you see, it often can just take time to find the right food that 'fits" their system.

I do think you might start with adding pumpkin to what he normally ate. Often it's just a matter of them needing higher fiber ( just like humans...some simply need that 'extra' for their digestive systems to work properly.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Maidto2Maltese said:


> Just adding my 2-cents with the experience I have with my Quincy. He has a very sensitive tummy and added in he has to be on a very low fat food due to his having formed fatty deposits in his eyes.
> When he came to me he was on a high-premium grain free diet which apparently agreed with him 'poo-wise" but it had high fat content.( thus the fatty deposits in eyes). Also blood panel showed some highs in protein, triglycerides, and a few others I don't recall right now.
> We had to do a bit of 'trial & error' in switching foods as we ran into runny, mucousy, bloody stools ( bouts of colitis) .
> We ended up with "Chicken Soup for the Dog lovers Soul/ the Adult Lite formula....( has nice low fat content) BUT I have to add some of the Science diet WD canned ( abt 1/4 cup) from the vets for some high fiber. This seems to 'fit' his system well.
> ...


 :goodpost:Great advice-thank you so much..


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

maggieh said:


> One thought about poultry - when I first adopted Tessa, Sweetness was on Fromm chicken a la veg, so I put Tessa on it too. After a week or so she started having "poo problems" which turned into full blown colitis and then HGE. She acted fine and every time it would start I put her on hamburger and rice and she would very quickly return to normal poo. Then I'd start to mix back in the Fromm and she would start having problems again. After a very long summer with a couple of very scary episodes, I put her on lamb and rice and she has been fine ever since.


 Thanks, Maggie. I did not know food intolerances can show up in this way. Glad to hear Sweetness is doing well.:wub:


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Lily is doing well this morning. She has not had a poop in almost 24 hrs. I added some plain potato to her scrambled egg yesterday. She still has a few more days of Metrondiazole to finish. Crossing my fingers.:blush: After ''sleeping on it", I think her problem is more diet related. I'm leaning toward talking to Dr. Dodd and having the "Nutriscan" test done. I just weighed her. She has gained 1-1/2 ozs!:chili: I'm so happy! :two thumbs up:


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## KAG (Jun 1, 2006)

Aww, the weight gain is making me cry happy tears. You go girl!!!!!
xoxoxoxoxooxoxoxoxooxox


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

So happy to hear that Lily gained a little weight. Fingers crossed that she continues to improve.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

It is nice to rejoice over weight gain in today's world! Way to Go Lily!


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

I've had a feeling it was food related too, which can really upset the GI tract. I know you will be wasting $ on the probiotics while she's on the Metronidazole, but her body will still make use of the digestive enzymes so I would put her back on it if she were mine. And make sure to let it soak in the food for at least 10 minutes before giving it to her. (You are refrigerating it, right?) And after talking to so many people who have toy breeds and quite a few breeders, I will again say I don't think most toy breeds can handle a really high protein diet. So when trying a new food, look for a moderate protein level. It certainly won't hurt to get an U.S., but as long as she's not in danger of getting too thin or malnourished, I really would encourage you to try the Phytomucil tincture and powder and see if there is an improvement. If she does have food intolerance's and it has caused her GI system to be unhealthy, it will really help to heal it. And if it was brought about by some stress you were unaware of, it will help as well. If not, then get the U.S. and continue with the diagnostic testing to figure out what is going on. 

As for your vet...Do you think perhaps she's simply not sure how to proceed at this moment and is trying to be careful not to say too much since she doesn't know what to do? I know I've been there with my old vet. Thankfully we had a good enough relationship that she was comfortable in telling me she was unsure how to proceed. She was leaning towards a liver biopsy with Jett. I was the one to stumble across the Probiotics and gave that a try first. Thankfully it worked. And I now know that Jett is very sensitive and susceptible to stress related GI issues and always have the Phytomucil around...both the powder and the tincture since I don't know if his is in upper or lower GI.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

My next step would be bile acids and an ACTH Stimulation test (gone with cortrosyn powder NOT the gel). If those are normal I'd see an internal medicine specialist for a second opinion.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Really great to hear she has gained some weight :chili::chili: I hope you have managed to find the right answers.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> I've had a feeling it was food related too, which can really upset the GI tract. I know you will be wasting $ on the probiotics while she's on the Metronidazole, but her body will still make use of the digestive enzymes so I would put her back on it if she were mine. And make sure to let it soak in the food for at least 10 minutes before giving it to her. (You are refrigerating it, right?) And after talking to so many people who have toy breeds and quite a few breeders, I will again say I don't think most toy breeds can handle a really high protein diet. So when trying a new food, look for a moderate protein level. It certainly won't hurt to get an U.S., but as long as she's not in danger of getting too thin or malnourished, I really would encourage you to try the Phytomucil tincture and powder and see if there is an improvement. If she does have food intolerance's and it has caused her GI system to be unhealthy, it will really help to heal it. And if it was brought about by some stress you were unaware of, it will help as well. If not, then get the U.S. and continue with the diagnostic testing to figure out what is going on.
> 
> As for your vet...Do you think perhaps she's simply not sure how to proceed at this moment and is trying to be careful not to say too much since she doesn't know what to do? I know I've been there with my old vet. Thankfully we had a good enough relationship that she was comfortable in telling me she was unsure how to proceed. She was leaning towards a liver biopsy with Jett. I was the one to stumble across the Probiotics and gave that a try first. Thankfully it worked. And I now know that Jett is very sensitive and susceptible to stress related GI issues and always have the Phytomucil around...both the powder and the tincture since I don't know if his is in upper or lower GI.


Thanks, Crystal. I learned that it is best to wait until the antibiotic is finished before I put Lily back on the digestive enzymes & probiotics which I plan to do. My vet is not a "bad" vet. I think she may no longer be the RIGHT vet for me. She does not do surgery anymore, her primary focus is on rehab. She seems to be lacking in the area of food issues(allergy, intolerances, diet,) & the practice is lacking in diagnostics and internal medicine as a whole. I would have to go to the Emergency Clinic to see an internist and get the Ultrasound. It is $150 just to walk in the door. The last ultrasound I got there including the office visit cost me $750. I have already spent $400 on tests. I just spent another $110 to have Dr. Dodd's Nutrascan test done. I found another clinic in my area on Angie's List that has 6 vets(one from Cornell, one from Europe & several others that appear superior to the vet I now use.) and they have an ultrasound onsite, internal medicine specialties, as well as a complete diagnostic lab. (My vet has only basic lab services.) They also have an "urgent care" clinic after hours which includes all day Sat-Sun. I'm thinking of paying them a visit.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

aprilb said:


> Thanks, Crystal. I learned that it is best to wait until the antibiotic is finished before I put Lily back on the digestive enzymes & probiotics which I plan to do. My vet is not a "bad" vet. I think she may no longer be the RIGHT vet for me. She does not do surgery anymore, her primary focus is on rehab. She seems to be lacking in the area of food issues(allergy, intolerances, diet,) & the practice is lacking in diagnostics and internal medicine as a whole. I would have to go to the Emergency Clinic to see an internist and get the Ultrasound. It is $150 just to walk in the door. The last ultrasound I got there including the office visit cost me $750. I have already spent $400 on tests. I just spent another $110 to have Dr. Dodd's Nutrascan test done. I found another clinic in my area on Angie's List that has 6 vets(one from Cornell, one from Europe & several others that appear superior to the vet I now use.) and they have an ultrasound onsite, internal medicine specialties, as well as a complete diagnostic lab. (My vet has only basic lab services.) They also have an "urgent care" clinic after hours which includes all day Sat-Sun. I'm thinking of paying them a visit.


The reason I often tell people to not give the Probiotic with Digestive Enzymes while on an antibiotic is the antibiotic kills off the live active cultures in the probiotic. But she will still get the benefits of the digestive enzymes...even while on the antibiotic. Since she really needs those, that is why I'm encouraging you to continue to give it to her. The other thing you can do is give her the probiotics w/digestive enzymes 2 hours after her antibiotic to still get much of the benefits of the actual probiotics.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

jmm said:


> My next step would be bile acids and an ACTH Stimulation test (gone with cortrosyn powder NOT the gel). If those are normal I'd see an internal medicine specialist for a second opinion.


From what I'm remembering in previous posts, the BAT has already been done. Now to learn about an ACTH Stimulation Test. That's why I love this forum. Always learning something new.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

jmm said:


> My next step would be bile acids and an ACTH Stimulation test (gone with cortrosyn powder NOT the gel). If those are normal I'd see an internal medicine specialist for a second opinion.


Good thinking, Jackie! These tests were included in the GI function test at TAMU. You are so smart!!!:wub::wub:


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> The reason I often tell people to not give the Probiotic with Digestive Enzymes while on an antibiotic is the antibiotic kills off the live active cultures in the probiotic. But she will still get the benefits of the digestive enzymes...even while on the antibiotic. Since she really needs those, that is why I'm encouraging you to continue to give it to her. The other thing you can do is give her the probiotics w/digestive enzymes 2 hours after her antibiotic to still get much of the benefits of the actual probiotics.




I didn't know that, Crystal! Thank you-I'll keep using them. And, yes "Mom", I keep them in the fridge.:HistericalSmiley:


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

*Update on Lily...and thank you all*

Lily is still doing well this afternoon. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help and support during this difficult time.:crying::wub: You are all just amazing and I thank the Lord for each one of you. How blessed I feel to know you...:SM Rocks!:


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

April -- all I can do is keep praying for your sweet Lily. I do think that it's very encouraging that she has put back on a little weight.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

If bile acids were done they would have held onto your dog for 2 hours. That is not automatically done with the TLI/PLI/Cobalamin/Folate. It would be an additional test.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

And an ACTH stim test would need to be done on a separate day after a 12 hour fast to be accurate.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

aprilb said:


> Lily is still doing well this afternoon. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help and support during this difficult time.:crying::wub: You are all just amazing and I thank the Lord for each one of you. How blessed I feel to know you...:SM Rocks!:


 
Bless her heart and may she continue to do so.!!!!!!


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

maggieh said:


> One thought about poultry - when I first adopted Tessa, Sweetness was on Fromm chicken a la veg, so I put Tessa on it too. After a week or so she started having "poo problems" which turned into full blown colitis and then HGE. She acted fine and every time it would start I put her on hamburger and rice and she would very quickly return to normal poo. Then I'd start to mix back in the Fromm and she would start having problems again. After a very long summer with a couple of very scary episodes, I put her on lamb and rice and she has been fine ever since.


Maggie, I had the same issue with one of mine when I switched to a poultry-based diet. Had him to the vet a number of times, metronidazole would help, but then the diarrhea would start up again. I finally switched back to a lamb-based food and he never had another issue. Same thing happened when I switched one to a senior diet. It was turkey-based and, again, the diarrhea started. Back to a lamb-based diet and he was fine. So no more poultry-based foods in my house.


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## Rocky's Mom (Apr 10, 2010)

April I am so happy to hear she gained a little weight! Is she acting more like herself too? :wub:


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Rocky's Mom said:


> April I am so happy to hear she gained a little weight! Is she acting more like herself too? :wub:


Thank you for asking Dianne-today has been a good day. Lily had a normal poop!:chili::chili: Don't worry, I won't be posting a pic.:smrofl:


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

MaryH said:


> Maggie, I had the same issue with one of mine when I switched to a poultry-based diet. Had him to the vet a number of times, metronidazole would help, but then the diarrhea would start up again. I finally switched back to a lamb-based food and he never had another issue. Same thing happened when I switched one to a senior diet. It was turkey-based and, again, the diarrhea started. Back to a lamb-based diet and he was fine. So no more poultry-based foods in my house.


We have not tried lamb. Maybe I should try it when I think she is ready to begin resuming a normal diet.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

aprilb said:


> Thank you for asking Dianne-today has been a good day. Lily had a normal poop!:chili::chili: Don't worry, I won't be posting a pic.:smrofl:


 
Awwww we understand nothing in the world better than a good poo, oh I know :chili::chili::chili::chili:


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

aprilb said:


> I didn't know that, Crystal! Thank you-I'll keep using them. And, yes "Mom", I keep them in the fridge.:HistericalSmiley:


Good girl! *in my best 'mother' voice*. :smtease:


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## Rocky's Mom (Apr 10, 2010)

You know what April, if you did post a picture I'm pretty sure we'd all think it was an reasonable thing to do.. because we'd want to help you decide if it looked normal.:HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley:





aprilb said:


> Thank you for asking Dianne-today has been a good day. Lily had a normal poop!:chili::chili: Don't worry, I won't be posting a pic.:smrofl:


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## totallytotontuffy (May 16, 2007)

I'm sorry if this was already answered, are her albumin levels normal?


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

totallytotontuffy said:


> I'm sorry if this was already answered, are her albumin levels normal?


Hi, Deb-I have her labs right in front of me. Her albumin was 2.8 (2.5-4.0 normal) and her globulin 2.1(2.1-4.5 normal) both of these are what I call low-normal making her total protein 4.9.(5.1-7.8 normal) which was slightly low. This could have been due to her being on rice and chicken and also the loose stools.


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## ann80 (Jun 13, 2009)

Very happy sweet Lily is doing better with her bowels & weight gain. Keep up the good work! :aktion033::chili::aktion033::chili::aktion033:


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