# So Upset



## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

As I sit here writing this, I am literally shaking and crying.

There is something very wrong between Lacie and Tilly. It may have happened while I was in the hospital or while I was at work, but it's been going on for a few weeks now. I could just sense it.

If Tilly and Secret are laying on the chair with me, then Lacie will not come up and be with us. She will either hide under the sofa or go into the office and lay on her bed. If Lacie is laying with me on the chair, and Tilly comes up on the chair too, Lacie will move as far away as possible and then eventually get down.

I've also noticed that they seldom play together. I've only seen them romp a couple times in the last few weeks and it's normally a daily occurrence.

But this morning was the worst. I was sitting in my office working on the computer when all of a sudden I hear a dog fight -- yes a real fight, coming from the kitchen. It's not just growling -- like they do when they want the other to leave something (toy, food) alone -- it's a real fight. I yell at them to stop it, but they don't and get up to go see what's happening. At first I was worried that Secret was involved, but she was in her bed in the office next to me.

When I got to the kitchen they stopped and I told both of them to leave the kitchen. Lacie finally left with that "I didn't do anything" look on her face, but Tilly had blood on her ear and face. 

I know that she will be OK and that it isn't deep, but just to know that Lacie actually bit Tilly is enough to upset me. 

When I had the Lhasas, they would often fight -- mostly the males if they got together and I've seen a number of dog fights -- even ones where I had to throw both fluffs into the pool to break up the fight and get them to let go of each other. I swore I would never get into a situation where my dogs fought again.

Lacie and Tilly have always been the best of friends. Yes, occasionally one would growl at the other as a warning to leave my toy or my treat alone, but that's it. Normally they cuddle together and love each other.

I don't know why this is happening nor how to help get it to STOP.

Advice??? Suggestions??? Thoughts??? I need help.:w00t:


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

Oh Lynn, I am so sorry 

Two of my aunts dogs went through a stage that lasted about 2 months where they fought a lot  They did go back to normal though.


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Lynn I am so sorry. It sounds to me like while you were gone the pecking order was modified, probably because of something your dog sitter did. Maybe they are trying to work out the order again. I would certainly ask your dog sitter if anything happened. Most likely it is some behaviour she introduced but had no idea she was doing it. I have never had more than one dog, so this is just a deduction based on your description, and because I have always only had one, I would not know how to correct it, or if it is just something that needs to be worked out.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Lynn, maybe they are just over sensitive & both missed you so much that they want your undivided attention? Pups have an amazing ability to sense when things are not great at home & it makes them insecure (but you already know that). 
Is it possible to spend individual time w/each of them? 
Maybe Walter is on to something here too? 
Has anything else changed?


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## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

Yes I think asking the pup sitter how they acted while she was there and if anything happened. Maybe call a trainer? or even the pet psychic that you talked to before, if you think it will help. yes that would have me upset too! with cats there is something called transferred aggression (I think that's the term) eg. if a cat came into the yard and the inside cat was aggressive towards it , but couldn't act on it, it would act out on another cat/animal etc. I have no idea if that occurs in dogs but it may be worth checking.


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Based on what Sandi said, I wonder if just the change in routine caused them some stress and they need to work out that stress.


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

Maybe one isn't feeling good or hurting somehow. Since Bitsy tore her cruciated she's been extra grouchy... I hope you can find out what's goign on, it's hard when fluffs fight...


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

michellerobison said:


> Maybe one isn't feeling good or hurting somehow. Since Bitsy tore her cruciated she's been extra grouchy... I hope you can find out what's goign on, it's hard when fluffs fight...


This is what I was thinking. Maybe she is not feeling well.


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

Sorry your two are having a little trouble . Maybe it was a change with you being gone. I'll bet they'll be back to theirselves soon! They probably both want your undivided attention.


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## mdbflorida (Feb 28, 2013)

Sounds like you have some good options to consider. Zach went through this when Amos was alive in the last year. He finally went back to normal, but I would watch them closely and keep them separate while you are out.


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## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

If the pet sitter doesn't provide any clues, it might be a good idea to have them thoroughly checked by your vet. It could be pain, or perhaps even hypothyroidism which can result in aggression.

My males fight occasionally (virtually always bloodless, but very scary), and it's more of a problem since one of them got a herniated disk last year.

:grouphug:


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## Zoe's Mom88 (Apr 25, 2011)

Lynn, I am so sorry that happened. I can just imagine how you feel. Praying it will all work out and things go back to normal with them.


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

I'm sorry this has happened...hopefully you'll find the answer. Ava and Abbey often have tiffs....and Ava never backs off!!! :blink: Poor Abbey used to be the baby and the princess of the family...she has been lost in the shuffle, but recently we've been giving her more love and attention. .....not sure if this is a good thing or not... 

Wish we knew what they were thinking...


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## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

I am so sorry that they are acting out this way. I'm sure it is breaking your heart. I'm kind of thinking along the lines of the others ~ health issue and/or readjusting to getting their house back to "normal". I think running a basic set of labs on them might be a good idea ... just to see if something is "off". After that, I think I'd focus on individual time together doing long walks to see if you can work out some of that negative energy and possible jealousy. After a week or so of "individual time" then I'd walk them together and try teaching them to act as a "team again". Big hugs.


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

Lynn, I'm sure it's just because they've been out of their regular routine. I'm also sure it's more upsetting to you than to either of the girls. When I first moved back into my parents' house, their Shih Tzu, Scout, would start fights with Zooey. She was feeling territorial of the house and perhaps jealousy. I made sure to give each girl lots of attention and now Scout has accepted that Zooey is living here and she needs to deal with it. Things happen in life and we all have to adapt. 

Hugs,


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## TLR (Nov 13, 2011)

Lynn, sounds like you have gotten some very good advise. I have to agree, it's probably the change in routine.


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

michellerobison said:


> Maybe one isn't feeling good or hurting somehow. Since Bitsy tore her cruciated she's been extra grouchy... I hope you can find out what's goign on, it's hard when fluffs fight...


Oh Lynn, how awful for your girls to fight.
I was thinking this too - that maybe Lacie isn't feeling well. 
Even if they had a tiff, doesn't it seems strange that Lacie is going off by herself or going under the couch? Does she otherwise seem okay?
I am sure you will figure it out, or things will settle down and they will be back to normal.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Ahhh Lynn,, I'm sure this is upsetting to you. I'd be in a twit if Naddie and Quincy got in to real fight! 
As others said... maybe have a health check. I do wonder why Lacie is going off by herself.

As someone mentioned maybe Sonya Fitzpatrick can give some insight.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Oh Lynn, how upsetting! All of the suggestions here have bee great - check with the sitter and have the vet rule out anything physical. Then I'd look at some sort of remedy to help calm their anxiety - I'm sure your being gone was stressful for the girls.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

I have given this a lot of thought, but I don't have an answer. My experience is that Lily and Ru would often get into nasty, growling confrontations, because they both wanted to be the queen. Lily was so sure of herself as queen, she insulted Ru by refusing to even compete. But, when Lily passed to the rainbow bridge, Ru stayed close, so close. And Ru grieved over Lily's passing for weeks. 

I think that perhaps a scuffle, even if it gets harsh, is not as bad in the minds of our dogs, as it would be for us. I hope that they will get back to be cuddle bunnies, and I wish I could offer greater insight, but all I can say, is they have their relationship, and a spat isn't as horrible as it would be if, say you and I bit each other.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

I'm sorry, Lynn...this IS upsetting...I agree with the others...I think Lacey needs to see the vet to rule out a health issue...you know how sensitive Malts are..your illness and absence may have affected them, too..Bridget has good advice about how to deal with the behavior..is it possible that Lacey could be separated from Tilly for a few days but still be able to each other like through a gate? Just a thought...things will get better...:grouphug::wub:


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Lynn, I am so sorry. Of course, this is upsetting.

I think you have already gotten great feedback and advice from your friends here. 

Hugs to you and the girls.


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## donnad (Aug 22, 2006)

Youy received some great advice. I don't have any suggestions but I hope everything works out for your girls.


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## lydiatug (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear your little ones aren't getting along, and it may very we'll be something that happened while you were gone. When the pack leader isn't there they could definitely rethink the pack order. 

We recently had a very small incident. Lexie is now sometimes confused and thus more engaged with her nose. She was smelling Bayleigh's back, an suddenly decided there was something yummy there and nibbled on her with her front teeth. It was not aggressive, but Bayleigh did not like it one bit and she snapped at her. A few times after, when Lexie was laying on my lap behind her, I would touch her back and she did the same to me. We worked on it over the next several days, desensitizing her, and now we are back to normal.

Just be patient and do some teamwork exercises and hopefully it will all work out. You probably just need to reinforce the fact that you are in charge so one of them don't think they need to be. Praying things get back to normal soon!


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Lynn - this must be so distressing I think everyone has offered great advice. I was thinking that maybe Lacie was somehow in pain and might not be comfortable but it could also be the other things going on or a combo of it all. I know they all must have missed you like crazy and are probably a bit "off" from that so maybe it's health, maybe it's behavioral but start with the sitter. Was it the usual one of did she move away already?


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## mom2bijou (Oct 19, 2006)

I would be so upset and worried as well. Hopefully the girls are just going through a little something and will get past it. I've never had this happen between Benny and Emma...just a little snarl if one has a chew and the other wants it. But I'm sure at times it has the potential to become more serious. I'll be watching for updates.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Thanks for all your thoughts and advice.

First -- my neighbor that has been my petsitter for years has moved to Michigan and because I went to the hospital in a hurry, I didn't have much time (nor was I in any shape) to come up with a great solution. The daughter of one of my co-workers is a college student who volunteered to stay at my house and feed the girls while I was in the hospital. Prior to this, she had never met my girls and I'm sure that they were upset that I wasn't with them and that their normal petsitter wasn't either and that a complete stranger was in the house.

This person (Colleen) didn't notice anything off with the fluffs, but I know she wouldn't have as she didn't know them at all.

None of the fluffs are ill. And it's not unusual for Lacie to go off to be alone (especially during Monsoon season which just ended), but this is different. Lacie will be very happily laying on the chair with me and even Secret -- but as soon as Tilly comes up, Lacie gets down.

After the little fight yesterday, Tilly did come up and give a nose lick to Lacie as if to say "I'm sorry and I love you", but Lacie wasn't very receptive. She ALLOWED Tilly to kiss her, but then got down and went into her Pink Princess House. Lacie is a Scorpio and you can see that in her personality while Tilly is a Gemini.

I do have a call with Sonya Fitzpatrick tomorrow to see if we can work through this with Lacie and Tilly. 

In the meantime, Secret is fine with either of them -- but as always, she mostly hangs with Tilly.

If Tilly tried to take charge when I was gone, then I know that would have upset Lacie as she is normally the boss. Hopefully Sonya will be able to get to the root of the problem.


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Lynn, I was listening to Sonya's radio show yesterday, and a man called in saying that his two dogs had started really fighting and he was trying to figure out why. Of course my ears perked up right away.

Sonya asked him to think about what had changed - that fighting is usually an emotional reaction to some sort of change that has happened. He thought about it for a while and realized that his wife had started taking vacations by herself right around the time the fighting started.
Sonya said that one of the dogs is very attached to his wife, and was blaming the other dog for the wife being gone. That same dog was instigating the fights. Sonya said it would take a while for her to work it out with them - too long for the radio show - but that was definitely the cause for them. I guess we are always looking for rational explanations, but it seems their brains just don't work the same way that our do. Funny that one dog would blame the other, but I guess who else do they have to blame?

I hope Sonya can help get things back to normal. I know you must be so worried.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

I'm sorry this is happening, Lynn.

It is probably the stress of your sudden hospitalization. They knew you weren't feeling well, and then you weren't there, and a strange girl was.

Is Tilly usually more friendly? Perhaps this girl favored her and didn't pay much attention to Lacie? This could cause jealousy for Tilly but maybe dominance in Lacie... It could also have been that this girl wasn't good at being the leader of the pack while away - caused insecurity and so Lacie took over as boss....but Tilly probably does not like that.

You said Tilly will move as far away as possible with Lacie comes near you... or hides under the sofa.... and that Lacie "allowed" her to lick her.... It sounds like something went on and Lacie might be being too dominant?

Maybe if Tilly jumps up and Lacie moves off, move Tilly off too. She may be doing it to claim you, so removing her from your lap would tell her your the boss again.

I hope with some time it smooths out... Gus and Grace have spats... but if this is new behavior and just feels off to you, listen to your gut. Things probably need to settle back into their normal routine....

You can find out for sure what went on at your reading next year! 

Sorry I think I got the girls mixed up... my brain is half working today! But hope you can understand what I mean!


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

wkomorow said:


> Lynn I am so sorry. It sounds to me like while you were gone the pecking order was modified, probably because of something your dog sitter did. Maybe they are trying to work out the order again. I would certainly ask your dog sitter if anything happened. Most likely it is some behaviour she introduced but had no idea she was doing it. I have never had more than one dog, so this is just a deduction based on your description, and because I have always only had one, I would not know how to correct it, or if it is just something that needs to be worked out.


Oh Lynn, just what you need, :w00t: I do think Walter might be right the pecking order changed, you and Lacie have special times together when you take her to the nursing home, she saw you in the hospital and just maybe she really feels a need to step up and be the leader and be your caregiver, I have always felt she might be jealous of Tilly and Secret that is why she jumps down and hides. When I am holding Miss Bow Matilda will just stare at me, I can feel how jealous she is, and we both know Lacie and Matilda are so much alike.
I had two skin kids who were very jealous of their time with me, they fought all the time, sometimes I thought one would get hurt, I separated them and took one at a time with me, seemed to help, just a thought maybe you can take one at a time with you to do errands.
I am anxious to hear what you find out what Sonya says
HUGS TO YOU


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## Zoe's Mom88 (Apr 25, 2011)

Lynn, I am happy you found someone who could possibly give you some insight as to what is going on and how to correct it. Please let us know how it goes.


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## puppydoll (Jul 11, 2013)

Hope you get some answers soon. Hug your babies for me.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Oh Lynn, I came to check in on you. Hugs my dear friend. I hope things got better. I guess it's normal to happen. These are just my thoughts. Sit on the floor with Lacie and Tilly, play with them, with their toys, and then give them a treat. They will begin to think, WOW every time I am with Lacie, or vice versa, I get playtime and treats. I love you Lynn.


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