# Does Older Equal Better?



## Violet's Mom (Aug 3, 2005)

I've been in contact with a lovely woman for a couple of days now and she has an older maltese that is ready to go. He's approximately 16 weeks (4 mos) but when I get him he'll be 17.5 weeks. What kind of problems do you think I could possibly encounter? Are they more "set in their ways" at this age, meaning, what he's use too with her, will he try to do with me?

What *is* the proper age to attain a new pup? 10 weeks... 12 weeks? Newbie minds want to know  

Thanks.

Lexi, I'm waiting for ya


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

16 weeks is fine. He might have a little trouble adjusting but I don't think it will be anymore then usually.

The age that we normally say to get a maltese puppy is 12 weeks, but if you have to you can get them as young as 10weeks old (only if the puppy is ready) or later if need be. Sometimes (especially if the puppy is small or not eating good) the breeders will keep the puppy later. I talked to one breeder who keeps the puppies until they are 5-6 months old. That way she can make sure they are healthy and eating properly before she lets them go home.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

I think 17 weeks sounds great. That is a LOT better than getting one at 8 weeks. He will likely be more secure and stable, not having left his mother and siblings too early. He is still a very young puppy and should not be set in his ways at all. The situation sounds great to me. Have you met him yet?

I would ask her where she got the dam and sire. What are their backgrounds?

Here's in on the 12-Week Rule: http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/12weekrule.htm

Why is there a 12-week-old rule about selling a Maltese puppy? Have you ever wondered why it is fine to place a large breed puppy at 8 weeks old as opposed to a small breed puppy? Why does the American Maltese Association code of ethics require a Maltese puppy be 12 weeks of age before they are placed in homes? There are many reasons!! I am going to compare lab puppies to Maltese puppies because I have had experience with both breeds in hopes of making it more easily understandable as to why this "12-week-old" rule exists for Maltese and many other "toy" breeds.
At birth there is not a lot of difference.......both litters depend on their moms for food, comfort, and heat. Shortly there after the differences start to become very apparent. A litter of three week old lab puppies are up playing and maneuvering around pretty well and are usually 3 pounds or more in weight. They are also getting their teeth and starting to eat gruel. A litter of Maltese puppies at three weeks of age have an average weight of 13.5 ounces and are just barely starting to get up on their legs and maneuver around readily....they have very little coordination at this point.

By four weeks old a lab litter is usually weaned from their mom. Maltese puppies at 4 weeks old are still very dependant on their mom's for nourishment although at this point I have moved the water bowl down for them to lap and they do lick at mom's food.

By eight weeks there is a drastic difference between a litter of lab puppies and a litter of Maltese puppies. Eight week old lab puppies usually have their teeth now and are eating puppy food. They are also much larger at this point with an average weight of between 20 to 25 pounds. They also seem to be mentally more mature at this point to me and are able to go to their new homes. In many cases, my Maltese puppies do not even have teeth and are still nursing their moms at eight weeks old.

At eight weeks old my Maltese puppies whose "average" weight is 1 pound 9 ounces usually start to get teeth and when those tiny needle sharp teeth start to come in is when Mom decides it is time to wean. This is a very important and scary time for Maltese puppies. They are used to having a milk bar provided for them and many do not really want to eat that nasty old gruel. Since a Maltese puppy is still very small, normally less than 2 pounds, they are also in danger of getting hypoglycemia which is caused by them not eating enough. This can be a very dangerous time for a Maltese puppy since hypoglycemia can result in seizures and even death if not taken care of immediately. This is also the normal time when a Maltese puppy starts to learn about puppy etiquette from it's mom and any other adults around and from playing with siblings, if there is more than one puppy in the litter. They learn about appropriate doggy behavior at this point. This is very important for the future well being and mental stability of this Maltese puppy. Maltese puppies learn some valuable lessons in the weeks after weaning, including how to get along with other dogs, and that biting hurts. These are lessons, all learned in puppy play, that no dog should be without. Some of the most important lessons in life, a puppy will learn from it's mom and siblings. They NEED this time with their mom and littermates!! 

An eight week old Maltese puppy may or may not be ready for it's first puppy shot. Resent studies on vaccination have proven that vaccinations given to a nursing puppy are basically worthless. They need to be weaned for that vaccination to do what it is supposed to do. My Maltese puppies are usually just receiving their first puppy shot sometime between 8 and 10 weeks old. 

Below are pictures of Rêve, Foxstone's Daydream Keeper, at 8 weeks old and at 12 weeks old. You will note that there is not a lot of difference between an eight week old Maltese puppy and a 12 week old Maltese puppy.

She is still a little fluff ball but at 12 weeks old she is better prepared both physically and mentally to go out and face the world.

So if you are looking for a well rounded Maltese puppy that is going to easily adapt into your life style and home with the least amount of problems, that Maltese puppy should be at least 12 weeks old when you bring it into your home....no exceptions!!!!

If a person/breeder is trying to sell you a Maltese puppy that is under 12 weeks old, or heaven forbid, a Maltese puppy that is 8 weeks old or younger, that person is either extremely unknowledgeable of the Maltese breed as a whole or that person does not have the best interests of their Maltese puppies at heart. Either way, in my opinion, you should steer clear of a person such as this since they are considered to be, in my opinion, unethical and/or disreputable Maltese breeders.

*No "reputable" breeder is going to sell you a 
Maltese puppy that is under 12 weeks old!!!!*


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## Violet's Mom (Aug 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom_@Aug 11 2005, 12:51 PM
> *I think 17 weeks sounds great. That is a LOT better than getting one at 8 weeks. He will likely be more secure and stable, not having left his mother and siblings too early. He is still a very young puppy and should not be set in his ways at all. The situation sounds great to me. Have you met him yet?
> 
> I would ask her where she got the dam and sire. What are their backgrounds?
> ...


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Thanks so much for this article. The breeder has told me at times, she's kept them longer than 12 weeks because they weren't 'ready'. I haven't met the little guy yet as she's in TN but I've spoken to the breeder quite frequently. I haven't asked her why she chose to breed the 2 but I did ask her about the pedigrees of the parents. I believe she said the father has multiple champs in his background and the mother has fewer... or something like that.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Violet's Mom+Aug 11 2005, 12:09 PM-->
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Thanks so much for this article. The breeder has told me at times, she's kept them longer than 12 weeks because they weren't 'ready'. I haven't met the little guy yet as she's in TN but I've spoken to the breeder quite frequently. I haven't asked her why she chose to breed the 2 but I did ask her about the pedigrees of the parents. I believe she said the father has multiple champs in his background and the mother has fewer... or something like that.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89442
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You can ask her to send you copies of the pedigrees.


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## Violet's Mom (Aug 3, 2005)

> Thanks so much for this article.  The breeder has told me at times, she's kept them longer than 12 weeks because they weren't 'ready'.  I haven't met the little guy yet as she's in TN but I've spoken to the breeder quite frequently.  I haven't asked her why she chose to breed the 2 but I did ask her about the pedigrees of the parents.  I believe she said the father has multiple champs in his background and the mother has fewer... or something like that.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89442


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> You can ask her to send you copies of the pedigrees.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89443


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I didn't realize that until after the other breeder sent me a copy. So of course, I emailed her.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Violet's Mom+Aug 11 2005, 01:09 PM-->
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Thanks so much for this article. The breeder has told me at times, she's kept them longer than 12 weeks because they weren't 'ready'. I haven't met the little guy yet as she's in TN but I've spoken to the breeder quite frequently. I haven't asked her why she chose to breed the 2 but I did ask her about the pedigrees of the parents. I believe she said the father has multiple champs in his background and the mother has fewer... or something like that.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89442
[/B][/QUOTE]

You may want to check with Bijousmom because she was looking for a baby in Tennessee..... Just make sure that the breeder isn't breeding two pet store pups. It's certainly a really good sign that she keeps them at least 12 weeks. That is usually the first way to tell a breeder who knows what she is doing from one who does not.


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## Violet's Mom (Aug 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom_@Aug 11 2005, 01:13 PM
> *You may want to check with Bijousmom because she was looking for a baby in Tennessee.....  Just make sure that the breeder isn't breeding two pet store pups. It's certainly a really good sign that she keeps them at least 12 weeks. That is usually the first way to tell a breeder who knows what she is doing from one who does not.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89445*


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Done! Tx
Another thing about this breeder she's very informative and welcomes all my calls, concerns, etc. I appreciate that esp. since I'm know very little about this breed.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Violet's Mom+Aug 11 2005, 01:17 PM-->
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Done! Tx
Another thing about this breeder she's very informative and welcomes all my calls, concerns, etc. I appreciate that esp. since I'm know very little about this breed.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89448
[/B][/QUOTE]

I know what you mean.... having a breeder you like is important. When I was looking for a puppy last year I found a couple breeders nearby that had good puppies, but I knew they were not people I would enjoy having many contacts with, etc. Having a breeder you have a good rapport with is important, in my opinion.


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## Holliberry (Feb 5, 2005)

I havent read all of this, but I wanted to say I got Phoebe at 16 weeks and I dont think I could have picked a better age. I really think that it contributed to her self-sufficency for one thing. She was already pad trained (which I screwed up a little), and she can play with me all day and night or if I am busy she will entertain herself for hours, and has from day 1. If I had the choice to do it all over again I would pick this age for that reason. I would have spoiled her too early I think, too! She adjusted immediately, and shes such a confident little thing as well. I think her breeder was just awesome with her which made it all work.

good luck!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Have you asked the breeder why this puppy is a little older? It may be that she kept him longer to evaluate him as a show prospect or considered keeping him herself. 

In our Breeders section, there is an excellent thread pinned at the top with questions to ask breeders:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4046

With the ever-increasing popularity of Maltese, there are more and more unscrupulous people out there just trying to make money with no regard for genetics, the Maltese standard, etc. It's easy to be taken advantage of when you've got "puppy fever"! Breeders who advertise on the internet can be really risky as they aren't regulated yet (the proposed PAWS legislation would change that). 

This breeder may sound "lovely", but has she screened her dogs for genetic illnesses that could be passed onto her puppies? Has she shown and finished her dogs to prove that they conform to the standard or is she just breeding dogs from pet shops or BYB's? Have you checked references from people who have one of her puppies and are satisfied? (Not just a recent purchase, but someone who got a puppy several years ago).

Have you checked to make sure this breeder isn't on the USDA list of puppy mills?
(Link is about halfway down the page) 
http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/USDA.html

Unfortunately, a lot of work goes into getting a healthy Maltese puppy, but the work is well worth it in long run!


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## Violet's Mom (Aug 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Aug 11 2005, 01:52 PM
> *Have you asked the breeder why this puppy is a little older? It may be that she kept him longer to evaluate him as a show prospect or considered keeping him herself.
> 
> In our Breeders section, there is an excellent thread pinned at the top with questions to ask breeders:
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I asked her every question on that list  and she informed me as to why she still has the pup (another buyer couldn't purchase b/c a family member got ill). I asked her about genetic illnesses, etc. and she also informed me that both parents were checked. I usually read people pretty well and she didn't stumble over anything, even when I asked her the same thing 2 days later. And no, she is not on the list. Thank God







As regards references, I checked her brag page... I know that's not enough, but still, anybody can pretend they are a reference (7 year puppy owner for ex.) and tell me whatever I need to hear. Ppl do it for jobs all the time.

Nope, not on the list


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)

I got Toby at 16 weeks and everything went smoothly. He was, of course, very nervous for the first day or so, but in time settled in just fine. I think him being older was a bit better. I didn't have to worry so much with him going into hypoglycemic shock, he was well socialized, he was a bit "sturdier" and able to rough house with Wally, and at night, the previous breeder had him trained to sleep through the night (in bed with us of course







). 

I didn't ask why she still had him, but I surmised that Toby was from a litter of 2 (him and a female) and the female sold but you know how less desirable males are.







I believe she was just holding onto him until someone decided to buy him or she probably would have kept him--they seemed really attached to the dogs.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Maltese are prone to several genetic illnesses like liver shunts, luxating patellas and eye problems. Don't take this woman's word for the fact that everything is "okay" genetically with her breeding stock. Ask to see the results of the testing.

She should have a certificate from the Canine Eye Registration Foundation (CERF), Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) and the results of a thyroid screen, heart exam and brucellosis from her vet for both parents. Ask her to fax them to you or mail you hard copies.

As Lucy Lou pointed out in another thread awhile back, unscruplulous breeders are very clever and know how to answer the tough questions, so don't take their word for it. And check references, don't rely on a webpage testimonial.

When it comes to buying a Maltese puppy, it is most definately buyer beware. Getting a sick puppy or one that comes with ticking time bombs for genetic illness can be heartbreaking and very, very expensive. Liver shunt surgery and surgery to correct luxtating patellas run in the thousands.

The purchase of a puppy should be treated the same as any other major purchase like a car or house. Do your homework before!


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

You have gotten good advice about checking on the health of the puppy so I can't add to that. I can give you some positives about the age of the puppy. I got Sadie at 14 weeks. The breeder also shows dogs and we just couldn't coordinate our schedules for me to get Sadie any earlier. She was ready to come home at 14 weeks, but I had to coax her to eat and I worried over her like crazy. Sassy is Sadie's littermate and she was not being offered for sale because the breeder was watching her for show potential. After we'd had Sadie for 6 weeks I let the breeder know that if Sassy didn't make it to the show ring that we would be interested in purchasing her. Around Thanksgiving she called to tell me that she was going to have to sell Sassy because her bite was off, etc. We already had a big trip planned so Janet felt that it would be best for us to wait until after Christmas to pick Sassy up. The point to my story is this: I LIKE that the breeder is in no hurry to get "rid" of the dog. It shows me that they aren't doing this purely for the money. I also found that Sassy was not picky about eating and, because she was nearly 6 months old, she was not as fragile and she was already pad trained. In some ways she was more regimented and better trained than Sadie. She fit seamlessly into our household. I don't think that buying a dog older than 12 weeks is a bad thing at all. The only caveat is that you might want to know where the dog has been living. I don't think I'd want to buy a 6 month old dog that had been living in a crate or X-pen with little human interaction. Sassy was getting plenty of loving from people and she played with other dogs all the time. She was well socialized.


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## Violet's Mom (Aug 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Aug 11 2005, 02:57 PM
> *Maltese are prone to several genetic illnesses like liver shunts, luxating patellas and eye problems. Don't take this woman's word for the fact that everything is "okay" genetically with her breeding stock. Ask to see the results of the testing.
> 
> She should have a certificate from the Canine Eye Registration Foundation (CERF), Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) and the results of a thyroid screen, heart exam and brucellosis from her vet for both parents. Ask her to fax them to you or mail you hard copies.
> ...


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I will do so tonight and let you guys know by tomorrow what she says. Thank you.

ETA: This has DEFINATELY helped me weed out the bad ones. I always say when things sound too good to be true, it usually is! Thank you SOOO MUCH for posting this!!!


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## abbey (Apr 4, 2005)

We got Abbey at 12 weeks and I think if I ever get another one - I will wait 16 weeks. Abbey seemed like she was eating better, understanding better, and a little more healthy. I kept telling my husband - "Now I know why breeders keep them until 12 weeks, I think they should keep them until 16 weeks!" They are still very small and soooo cute at this age.


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## mightymite (Jul 5, 2005)

16 weeks is older? That's a puppy! I've adopted dogs that are 10 and 11 years old and had no trouble getting them to adjust to their new homes. Dogs are far more resiliant than we give them credit. I also find that getting an older dog, or em. . . older puppy can actually make housebreaking a bit easier esp. if the dog had a good start in the previous home. Since your dog will have better bladder control and will not have had the opportunity to mark your house, you'll probably see fewer mistakes and have an eaiser time of it! GO FOR IT!


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## Bijousmom (May 29, 2005)

Congratulations on finding your Maltese. Bijou was almost 5 months old when I purchased him. The up side of an older puppy is that you don't have to get up to take him to the paper several times in the middle of the night. I wish you all the best.


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## Laceys mom (Nov 12, 2004)

Lacey came home at 14 weeks. She was ready at 12 weeks but I had some traveling for work so my breeder kept her until then. Lacey was great.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

I did not read through everyone else's comments, so sorry if this is a repeat...but had to give my 2 cents.









We got Brinkley right at 16 weeks and it was GREAT! He was well socialized with the breeder, so he fit right in instantly with us. He bonded with me on our long (2 days) ride home...







I told her what we were going to name him, so she started calling him that, so he knew his name. She had started wee pad training with him, so he caught on to that VERY quickly!








I see pictures of the tiny fluffy pups at younger ages, and sometimes I am sad that I missed that with Brinkley...but I also think we skipped some of the more annoying puppy stages too. He wasn't a bad pup at all. I think it will be just fine. But that is just from my own experience.


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