# they are so different



## shellbeme

I don't get it. The more Maltese I see the more I notice how utterly different they look. There are so many out there with long noses, some of the dogs just look huge to me. I am really attracted to the ones I have seen from Asian breeders and the dogs from several of our breeders in the USA who post on this forum. These dogs seem smaller, have a consistent coat and shorter muzzles, they look like Maltese to me-the others look like a completely different breed of dog. 

Are the standards that wildly different from country to country that each one is building a different breed of dog? Some dogs I think are cotons or havanese and find out they are suppose to be Maltese. I tried finding a website that compared the differences but I had no luck.


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## wkomorow

Carmidanick Maltese |  Breed Info

Explains some differences in the west.

I think of it as family resemblences. People may be from the same area, but resemblences are greated within families. I bet Carina can look at a Maltese and have a good idea of its lineage.


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## SammieMom

Shelly-just speaking of show breeders I think it depends on pedigree / lineages, not the location of breeder. Esp since they often use a dame/sire from another state or even country. But I do see the 5/6 lb body with a shorter muzzle mainly at the shows and the breeders on here. I don't know but seems to me the shorter muzzle came later. Because the Maltese in real old movies and old paintings from Europe I saw have a little longer muzzle. And with breed standard weight being 5 to 7 lbs depending on age, diet and lifestyle of dog, guess that could vary in itself.


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## shellbeme

Thanks Walter! That website is great


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## CloudClan

wkomorow said:


> Carmidanick Maltese*|* Breed Info
> 
> Explains some differences in the west.
> 
> I think of it as family resemblences. People may be from the same area, but resemblences are greated within families. I bet Carina can look at a Maltese and have a good idea of its lineage.


Thanks. :blush: I do try, but well with all the mixing of different lines, it can be hard to be accurate at this, but there is no doubt that I do often try to make a guess when I meet a new Maltese and when I am told the parentage on dogs, I can often point to certain features that seem to come from the dogs in their lines. For instance, a lot of dogs with Ch. Pashes Dream Phantasy seem to have inherited his adorable nose (including my Cacia). 




SammieMom said:


> Shelly-just speaking of show breeders I think it depends on pedigree / lineages, not the location of breeder. Esp since they often use a dame/sire from another state or even country. But I do see the 5/6 lb body with a shorter muzzle mainly at the shows and the breeders on here. I don't know but seems to me the shorter muzzle came later. Because the Maltese in real old movies and old paintings from Europe I saw have a little longer muzzle. And with breed standard weight being 5 to 7 lbs depending on age, diet and lifestyle of dog, guess that could vary in itself.


This is true that certain lines look like "cousins" where you can see the family resemblance coming through, but I also feel that sometimes people assume they are going to get a consistent look by going to a specific breeder and while most every breeder has a look they want to achieve, not every dog born into that family-line will have exactly what the breeder hopes for. In fact, sometimes this is why certain dogs are placed as pets, they may not be exactly the look the breeder was after. 

I have also heard a lot of people talk about going to a certain country for a look. It is interesting to note that yes, the Korean breeders seem to be doing a great job producing some quality dogs, just as we are doing here in the states, but I have seen some very long muzzled dogs coming from Korea and other asian countries so it is by no means a guarantee. In fact, one breeder in our area (known for a bit of snarkiness) described two Korean dogs imported from a well known kennel in Korea as having noses you could hang coats off, the owner herself said they had muzzles as long as landing strips. Anyway, the point I am making is that if you are expecting a specific look it isn't enough to know the region the dogs is coming from or even at times the breeder, you have to look at the dogs in the pedigree and what they have produced and sometimes that isn't even enough because genetics are tricky and even litter-mates can look very different. :thumbsup:


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## shellbeme

Thank you for the input Carina. There is so much to learn!


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## maggieh

Shelly, remember that unless you know a dog came from a reputable show breeder you might be meeting Maltese from puppy mills and backyard breeders, and then appearance is a crap shoot. I personally love the look of Carina's dogs -they are beautiful and what I think a Maltese should look like.


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## shellbeme

maggieh said:


> Shelly, remember that unless you know a dog came from a reputable show breeder you might be meeting Maltese from puppy mills and backyard breeders, and then appearance is a crap shoot. I personally love the look of Carina's dogs -they are beautiful and what I think a Maltese should look like.


I agree Maggie, they are stunning. Some day we want to add another malt. The breeder we got our boys from is not one I would recommend or go back to. We didn't realize at the time but we're pretty sure they were from a puppy mill.  I've only casually browsed but it seems like finding a real reputable breeder is no easy task!


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## edelweiss

wkomorow said:


> Carmidanick Maltese*|* Breed Info
> 
> Explains some differences in the west.
> 
> I think of it as family resemblences. People may be from the same area, but resemblences are greated within families. I bet Carina can look at a Maltese and have a good idea of its lineage.


Very good info from Walter posted from Carol Carmidanick Maltese. Carol knows the maltese breed about as well as anyone I know. I have known her a long, long time & I have great respect for her over the years. If anyone in Europe is looking for quality maltese, she is one of the best. If you have questions you can PM me.


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## MalteseJane

One picture is of Alex and one picture is of Charlie.
View attachment 189985


I am biased, so would like to know every one else opinion. Sometimes lately when I look at a picture of Alex I cannot make a difference between Charlie. And they are not of the same breeder.


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## shellbeme

MalteseJane said:


> One picture is of Alex and one picture is of Charlie.
> View attachment 189985
> 
> 
> I am biased, so would like to know every one else opinion. Sometimes lately when I look at a picture of Alex I cannot make a difference between Charlie. And they are not of the same breeder.


Janine I am a total non expert so I don't really know what I'm talking about, but just as a fellow doggie mom they look very different to me. It might be the hair cut or the angle of the picture but the pup on top has very different eyes to me (I think they are adorable and the kind of eyes I look for in malts) that's totally not meant to put down your other fluff-again I have no idea what I'm talking about, I just notice their eyes seem very different to me. Now, I don't know that I could tell them apart in other pictures but hehe maybe one of the experts will chime in


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## Dominic

Different looks? We have it.


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## woodele

Same subject but slightly different wording:
standards


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## edelweiss

Janine, I do see a strong resemblance in your two---maybe it is the hair cut or the angle of the shot---not sure, but yes, more alike than my two who have the same sire but different dams.


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## Furbabies mom

I agree Shelly. If I see two Collies or Dachshund or Beagles that are purebred they look alike. The Maltese and Yorkies look so different to me. Even though Laurel and Dewey are about the same size , Laurel is so far from the standard, but I know now that she's a puppy mill dog.


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## hoaloha

MalteseJane said:


> One picture is of Alex and one picture is of Charlie.
> View attachment 189985
> 
> 
> I am biased, so would like to know every one else opinion. Sometimes lately when I look at a picture of Alex I cannot make a difference between Charlie. And they are not of the same breeder.



Not the best pics for comparison because the the angles are different. Looks like two different dogs with the same haircut. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## mysugarbears

CloudClan said:


> This is true that certain lines look like "cousins" where you can see the family resemblance coming through, but I also feel that sometimes people assume they are going to get a consistent look by going to a specific breeder and while most every breeder has a look they want to achieve, not every dog born into that family-line will have exactly what the breeder hopes for. In fact, sometimes this is why certain dogs are placed as pets, they may not be exactly the look the breeder was after.


Exactly, case in point Reese and Kelly both from same breeder but look nothing alike. Reese is on the right and has the look i see in the TNT line, Kelly on the left i really don't see any of the TNT look like i see in most of the TNT dogs i've seen.


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## SammieMom

edelweiss said:


> Janine, I do see a strong resemblance in your two---maybe it is the hair cut or the angle of the shot---not sure, but yes, more alike than my two who have the same sire but different dams.


Maybe its the cut. Both kinda look same.


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## SammieMom

mysugarbears said:


> Exactly, case in point Reese and Kelly both from same breeder but look nothing alike. Reese is on the right and has the look i see in the TNT line, Kelly on the left i really don't see any of the TNT look like i see in most of the TNT dogs i've seen.


Reese is Penny grandma and they REALLY look alike


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## Furbabies mom

SammieMom said:


> Reese is Penny grandma and they REALLY look alike


Boy they do!!! Both are beautiful!


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## Furbabies mom

This is Dewey's mom on the left , and dad in the middle followed by Rotten Dewey. Does he look like either parent? I can't tell.


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## SammieMom

Furbabies mom said:


> This is Dewey's mom on the left , and dad in the middle followed by Rotten Dewey. Does he look like either parent? I can't tell.


He looks like his Mama to me, in these pictures. His dad may have a darker face of two. (?). Is Dewey related to Eva? All are gorgeous.


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## Furbabies mom

SammieMom said:


> He looks like his Mama to me, in these pictures. His dad may have a darker face of two. (?). Is Dewey related to Eva? All are gorgeous.


Yes I think that he related to Eva.


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## edelweiss

I think he looks like mom too---the furry one!


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## shellbeme

SammieMom said:


> He looks like his Mama to me, in these pictures. His dad may have a darker face of two. (?). Is Dewey related to Eva? All are gorgeous.


 
I was thinking the same thing!


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## kilodzul

Back to original topic, I wonder if we feel like this (every Maltese is different, as opposed to other breeds) because we pay attention to it? Maybe owners of i.e. Beagles also feel that way? Before I had Cashmere I sure wouldn't be able to tell apart small white fluffs I saw on the walks.

That being said, I agree that there're major differences in Maltese. Starting with size described in different standards - European Malts, weighting from 6.6 to 8.8 lbs, probably look huge for US owners. They also have longer muzzles. I actually love this look, I like moderate looking dogs in general, but it's the matter of personal preference.

When I was looking for breeder, I saw looks described as "Italian", "American" or "Korean" - the main difference was muzzle- eyes- nose proportions, but all those dogs were from show breeders, and fitted the standard. So I don't think Malts have to have only one true look. But that's okay, it makes every single one of them special.


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## shellbeme

kilodzul said:


> Back to original topic, I wonder if we feel like this (every Maltese is different, as opposed to other breeds) because we pay attention to it? Maybe owners of i.e. Beagles also feel that way? Before I had Cashmere I sure wouldn't be able to tell apart small white fluffs I saw on the walks.
> 
> That being said, I agree that there're major differences in Maltese. Starting with size described in different standards - European Malts, weighting from 6.6 to 8.8 lbs, probably look huge for US owners. They also have longer muzzles. I actually love this look, I like moderate looking dogs in general, but it's the matter of personal preference.
> 
> When I was looking for breeder, I saw looks described as "Italian", "American" or "Korean" - the main difference was muzzle- eyes- nose proportions, but all those dogs were from show breeders, and fitted the standard. So I don't think Malts have to have only one true look. But that's okay, it makes every single one of them special.


Tucker looks like I like. I think I'm going to save some of his hair and save the 10k to have him cloned. Just kidding! I tell DH that all the time.

Yes I think you're right. I think we are all so obsessed with these dogs that we notice the tiniest differences between individuals


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## kilodzul

shellbeme said:


> Tucker looks like I like. I think I'm going to save some of his hair and save the 10k to have him cloned. Just kidding! I tell DH that all the time.
> 
> Yes I think you're right. I think we are all so obsessed with these dogs that we notice the tiniest differences between individuals


Well, he has the cutest face, the world certainly wouldn't mind having more adorable Tuckers around.


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## DiamOnd

i notice a huge difference too. 

i think it has alot to do with cross breeding. where i am in Australia. it's soo hard to find a smaller sized maltese. they are all huge and most are maltipoos. cross with poodles. I see many many many BYB's advertising Maltese crosses as pure maltese. Someone who doesn't know the breed well will be easily fooled because the puppies are white and fluffy but i can easily tell from the pictures they are mixed with other breeds.

very hard to find one that doesn't have mixed blood here. there is also a very small number of registered breeders here compared to other countries. i only found bout 5 registered maltese breeders in Australia. So i think this makes it a larger market for BYB that make mixes. 

My first maltese was a maltipoo. She had longer legs than the typical maltese and her hair was wavy but she had the face of a maltese. 

My 2nd maltese. the one i have now is more of the standard maltese. short legs with straight hair.


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## elly

My 2 are from the same breeder as Debbie TNT and both look very different.


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