# Spine issues



## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

Does anyone have experience with this? My Ling Ling is currently confined to crate rest for 8 weeks or until we can see the neurologist to see what’s going on with her spine. She’s really in a lot of pain. Her symptoms were her back legs were going out on her and she couldn’t put weight on them. When she could walk she was swaying sideways on the rear end to walk.
They dx her with herniated disc based on her examination. 
The ER wants me to keep her heavily drugged these next few weeks to see if rest helps. They don’t even want her to walk outside to potty. I am to carry her.
This is so stressful keeping a dog caged when they never had to be. Poor baby doesn’t understand what’s going on. The only positive is she is soooo lovable when drugged up🤦🏻‍♀️


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

I so sorry. When did all of this happen? I have no experience with spine issues. Did she jump down or something. I sure that it is very stressful for her to be in her crate all the time.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Kitzi walks what we call "sideways" often---has since he was 7 months old before his first surgery at 1. He does not have disc issues but he does have a limp.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Joanne, I am so sorry Ling Ling and you are going through all of this.

Are you able to get a second opinion from another vet? Is the ER vet that gave you the instructions a specialist? 

It seems like eight weeks is a long time to have her on heavy drugs and confined in a crate ... and, especially with not knowing for sure if the diagnosis is a herniated disc. 

I hope and pray you can find a specialist to help you and Ling Ling sooner than this. I know the COVID-19 pandemic has changed how many veterinary practices are scheduling ... but, again .. eight weeks is a long time.

My heart goes out to both you and Ling Ling. ❤


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

Oh poor Ling Ling. I hope that by now maybe she's feeling a bit better. My heart breaks for her and for you if you have to keep her in a crate all the time. If she's all drugged up maybe she wouldn't need to be crated because she wouldn't be active anyways. Drugging her up for 8 weeks seems like a very long time too. I pray you get to see the neurologist a lot sooner than that.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

Hi Everyone! So the more I thought about it, it’s ridiculous to keep a dog caged up on drugs for 8 weeks, only to maybe have to do it all over again if she needs surgery. That said, I got her in on Saturday morning with the neurologist at the specialty hospital.
Thinking back, there were times that if I went to pick her up, she would cry out in pain. If I put her right down, she would run off as if she was in pain. I always thought I was pulling her long hair, so it was one of the reasons I cut it off.
Then about 5 months ago, she was reluctant to walk everyday and then flash forward to last weekend, she could not stand on her back legs. When I brought her out to potty, her legs collapsed. If I tried to lift her, she toppled over, and then eventually within a short time when she walked, her back end looked as though it was off to the side. This is when I went to the ER.
My last client whose dog had spine surgery said she if she had a herniated disc she would have been paralyzed by now
As to how this happened...I have no idea. My girls are not allowed on my furniture, so there’s no chance of her jumping off anything.
I guess we will know more on Saturday, hopefully. Thanks for the support. xx


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Good luck on Saturday. I am hoping it is something as simple as a pinched nerve.


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

Good luck on Saturday. Praying she heals quickly.


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## Melitx (Apr 25, 2014)

My little boy I had prior to Ollie had Intervertebral disk disease (*IVDD*). The vet said it was not caused by an injury but was due to old age, he was almost 15 years old when diagnosed. It is very common in breeds with short legs. Could your baby possibly have this?


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

Melitx said:


> My little boy I had prior to Ollie had Intervertebral disk disease (*IVDD*). The vet said it was not caused by an injury but was due to old age, he was almost 15 years old when diagnosed. It is very common in breeds with short legs. Could your baby possibly have this?


Yes...the ER mentioned this to me and suggested surgery, if in fact It is that, From everything I’ve read, she’s seems very young for this, considering she just turned 5 years. I hope to know more tomorrow once we meet with the neurologist. This appointment can’t come soon enough, whereas if she moves a certain way, I can hear her cry out.


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## Melitx (Apr 25, 2014)

Yes I’ve heard younger dogs can have it too, some recover without surgery. We choose not to go with surgery because of his age and weight, 3.8 pounds at the time. We instead did VOM (veterinary orthopedic manipulation), with “cold Laser” acupuncture. The treatments were working after just two he was able to wag his tail. But sadly his IVDD progressed to Myelomalacia, it’s very uncommon I think only 10% of cases progress, but we had to make the hard decision to help him move on to the rainbow bridge.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

Melitx said:


> Yes I’ve heard younger dogs can have it too, some recover without surgery. We choose not to go with surgery because of his age and weight, 3.8 pounds at the time. We instead did VOM (veterinary orthopedic manipulation), with “cold Laser” acupuncture. The treatments were working after just two he was able to wag his tail. But sadly his IVDD progressed to Myelomalacia, it’s very uncommon I think only 10% of cases progress, but we had to make the hard decision to help him move on to the rainbow bridge.


I’m so sorry you had to let him go, so sad. You certainly did what you could for him.
So, I’ve been wondering what the alternative treatments were but thought I’d wait until I got a firm dx From the neurologist before I wasted time researching some that didn’t apply to us. I will definitely research more on the cold laser And VOM. Hopefully, I’ll have that for an option. I do know that if I opted out of surgery, the treatment is what we are doing now that the ER suggested, which is 8 weeks of crate, no exceptions on meds. Its hard to do and not that successful, especially where she is young and very active.
Idk, but I thank you for any advice you can share on this.


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## Melitx (Apr 25, 2014)

maddysmom said:


> I’m so sorry you had to let him go, so sad. You certainly did what you could for him.
> So, I’ve been wondering what the alternative treatments were but thought I’d wait until I got a firm dx From the neurologist before I wasted time researching some that didn’t apply to us. I will definitely research more on the cold laser And VOM. Hopefully, I’ll have that for an option. I do know that if I opted out of surgery, the treatment is what we are doing now that the ER suggested, which is 8 weeks of crate, no exceptions on meds. Its hard to do and not that successful, especially where she is young and very active.
> Idk, but I thank you for any advice you can share on this.


I wish you and your baby the best of luck. Hopefully she will not need anything more than just being confined to a crate for a few weeks. Feel free to reach out to me if you have anymore questions. There are also several IVDD support groups on Facebook that are very helpful.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

Thank you very much. I appreciate your help so much and will definitely be in touch if confirmed IVDD. I will look into the FB groups and if they are anything like my other two IBD groups, they will be extremely helpful...great suggestion, thank you!
I’ll update after our appointment tomorrow 🙏🏻


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Good luck today.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

wkomorow said:


> Good luck today.


Thanks Walter!


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Hope everything goes well today and no invasive intervention is needed! Sending hugs!


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

Good Luck today with Ling Ling's appointment


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

pippersmom said:


> Good Luck today with Ling Ling's appointment


Thankyou! I’m waiting for them to bring her out now!


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

i just spoke to Neurologist and boy did their sister hospital really drop the bomb. I’m so glad I brought her here today because she passed all neuro test and if anything, it’s her luxating knees. The doctor does not feel the need to do any imaging after examination. There was nothing, not one thing neurologically off during the indoor and outdoor testing.
To think I almost crated her on heavy drugs for 8 weeks per ER visit recommendation. This doctor said there was absolutely no need to do that.
The neuro is giving me mild drug for her knees and if she has an episode, I am to video tape her. I didn’t realize her knees were so bad, but apparently very loose.
Im so relieved.
I mean there could always be a chance that something is going on and the meds helped but in this instance, it is not her spine whatsoever but more her LP causing her legs to collapse. 
I still can’t believe the ER and how wrong they were. Next time I’ll drive the xtra 30 minutes and go directly to the specialty hospital.


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

That's great news that it's not her spine!!!! Do you have her on a joint supplement. I have had great success with Cosequin DS sprinkle capsules. Again, I'm so happy to hear it's not her spine.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

pippersmom said:


> That's great news that it's not her spine!!!! Do you have her on a joint supplement. I have had great success with Cosequin DS sprinkle capsules. Again, I'm so happy to hear it's not her spine.


Kathy...that’s a great suggestion. Is that a prescription? I have never giving any joint supplements before because I’ve never needed too, but now I will. The neurologist only called in gabapentin for pain and I think it helps with inflammation.

I’m still trying to comprehend how the ER said she was in excruciating pain if they touched her back, and it was all spine and it was knee related 🤦🏻‍♀️


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

The cosequin is not a prescription. My vet just orders it in for me because they don't carry it. When I first got it for Pipper years ago he wouldn't put any weight on one leg while standing still. After a few weeks on the cosequin he never held his leg up again. I use sprinkle capsules and just sprinkle half of a capsule daily in his food.

Maybe Ling Ling was feeling a referred pain in her back but it was actually coming from her knees.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

pippersmom said:


> The cosequin is not a prescription. My vet just orders it in for me because they don't carry it. When I first got it for Pipper years ago he wouldn't put any weight on one leg while standing still. After a few weeks on the cosequin he never held his leg up again. I use sprinkle capsules and just sprinkle half of a capsule daily in his food.
> 
> Maybe Ling Ling was feeling a referred pain in her back but it was actually coming from her knees.


Kathy...is this the one you order? I’ll order it from Chewy. NUTRAMAX Cosequin Maximum Strength (DS) Capsules Joint Health Dog Supplement, 132 count - Chewy.com

Thankyou again for the suggestion. I definitely don’t want her to have surgery and if this can help in anyway, I will be thrilled.


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

Yes thats the one I have. Only difference is that its triple the price here in Canada 😲
The dosage starts for a 10 lb dog, which Pipper is, so you might have to adjust it a bit but the capsules pull apart so you can use as much or little of the powder as you want.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

pippersmom said:


> Yes thats the one I have. Only difference is that its triple the price here in Canada 😲
> The dosage starts for a 10 lb dog, which Pipper is, so you might have to adjust it a bit but the capsules pull apart so you can use as much or little of the powder as you want.


Ok, great, thank you very much!


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Joanne that is wonderful news!


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

maggieh said:


> Joanne that is wonderful news!


It sure is wonderful news! Thankyou Maggie!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Our prayers have been answered! Little Ling-Ling may benefit from this so we are hopeful. It did not help Kitzi but that is another story. It does help most dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Prayers continue. Thank you God.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> Our prayers have been answered! Little Ling-Ling may benefit from this so we are hopeful. It did not help Kitzi but that is another story. It does help most dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Prayers continue. Thank you God.


Kitzel had LP surgery? is that why he limps? Lacie did swim therapy and acupuncture as a puppy because she was too weak to be put under and was told if I continued to exercise her, the muscle around the kneecap would act like a cage and support the kneecap from slipping. It’s always worked, so I’m really surprised it hasn’t worked for Ling Ling with all the walking they do. 
i might have to consider surgery if the supplements and pain killer dont help, though I hear the arthritis after surgery, is worse than the surgery itself 🤷🏻‍♀️


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Wow. Glad it is just a LP. Luck had one, and I had to massage it back into place a couple of times. Once I needed the vet to reseat it. Good luck - that is such a relief.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

wkomorow said:


> Wow. Glad it is just a LP. Luck had one, and I had to massage it back into place a couple of times. Once I needed the vet to reseat it. Good luck - that is such a relief.


It is such a relief. I did not need the worry of a spine issue.
thanks again, walter!


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## Melitx (Apr 25, 2014)

I am so happy to hear that it is not IVDD or any other spine issue! Hopefully you can find something to help her with her knee.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

Melitx said:


> I am so happy to hear that it is not IVDD or any other spine issue! Hopefully you can find something to help her with her knee.


Oh...thank you so much. Gosh...how that ER was so way off in diagnosis. Thankyou again for offering your experience with spine issues and IVDD. Even though it didn’t help me, it may someone else reading this thread 💕


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## Ggsummer30 (Jun 16, 2020)

maddysmom said:


> Does anyone have experience with this? My Ling Ling is currently confined to crate rest for 8 weeks or until we can see the neurologist to see what’s going on with her spine. She’s really in a lot of pain. Her symptoms were her back legs were going out on her and she couldn’t put weight on them. When she could walk she was swaying sideways on the rear end to walk.
> They dx her with herniated disc based on her examination.
> The ER wants me to keep her heavily drugged these next few weeks to see if rest helps. They don’t even want her to walk outside to potty. I am to carry her.
> This is so stressful keeping a dog caged when they never had to be. Poor baby doesn’t understand what’s going on. The only positive is she is soooo lovable when drugged up🤦🏻‍♀️


I only know that my 10 year old girl walks sideways. The groomer and I think she had a stroke. She has had 3 seizures in the past. I’ve taken her to 3 different Vets and they all have a different opinion! All her blood panels come back normal. I wish she could tell me what happened. Sorry to hear about your it your girl. Praying for you both!


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## Dixie's Mama (Mar 19, 2008)

I’m so happy you and Ling Ling got the correct diagnosis. LP can be very painful. I hope she feels better soon.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

Ggsummer30 said:


> I only know that my 10 year old girl walks sideways. The groomer and I think she had a stroke. She has had 3 seizures in the past. I’ve taken her to 3 different Vets and they all have a different opinion! All her blood panels come back normal. I wish she could tell me what happened. Sorry to hear about your it your girl. Praying for you both!


Thankyou. During her episodes, I did wonder if she was having a seizure . Thankfully, the neurologist ruled out everything. It was her knees giving out from her luxating patella.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

QUOTE="Dixie's Mama, post: 4212354, member: 4392"]
I’m so happy you and Ling Ling got the correct diagnosis. LP can be very painful. I hope she feels better soon.
[/QUOTE]
Thankyou sooo much❤ My Lacie has really bad LP’s but walking has always help keep them from popping out, whereas it strengthens the muscle around the kneecap. I’m surprised with all the walking they do, Ling Ling caused so much pain. I feel so bad.
That said, she is feeling so much better, so thanks again.


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## Dstevens (Nov 27, 2020)

So glad! I have been checking back to see! It seems to be common in Maltese. When I read the symptoms and neurologist, I think I had some PTSD. I had to put down an 18 month old Maltese due to encephalitis of her little brain. Many of the same things, but add in seizures. 
Prayers to you both! 
These dogs(all dogs) are such a part of us!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Kitzel had LP surgery? is that why he limps? Lacie did swim therapy and acupuncture as a puppy because she was too weak to be put under and was told if I continued to exercise her, the muscle around the kneecap would act like a cage and support the kneecap from slipping. It’s always worked, so I’m really surprised it hasn’t worked for Ling Ling with all the walking they do. 
i might have to consider surgery if the supplements and pain killer dont help, though I hear the arthritis after surgery, is worse than the surgery itself 🤷🏻‍♀️
Joanne---Kitzi started limping at 7 months (he had such a regal walk before that--like a Lipanzanner horse)--we took him for a million exrays to 3 or 4 vets (one in California) over about 3-4 months time. He even had a cat scan---no one could explain why---he did have LP in his back legs but it did not seem to merit the "walk/limp" that got progressively worse. He also sometimes walks sort of sidewards. We waited until the exrays showed the growth plates were complete & took him to a surgeon in Vienna who did double LP surgery at the same time. Recovery was hard. We also tried acupuncture, acquatherapy, & supplements & who knows what else---nothing changed. We finally gave up. His arthritis is getting painful for him.


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