# Elvis



## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

This is Elvis who I want to show any idea on how long it will take me to get him into coat


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Wow, ..Elvis is really short now. I would guess that it would take a year to grow his coat out, but I am no expert.

Have you had him evaluated for show to see if it's even worth trying to grow his coat out? Having a champion sire does not automatically mean he is show quality. So much more goes into the total package like structure, movement and attitude. Only an experienced show breeder who can see him in person can tell you.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

Here is a picture of MiMi right after her first haircut which was in early April of 2012












And this is how much it has grown in one year 












Of course different dogs hair grows at a different rate. MiMi's grows about 1/2 inch a month. It is now about two inches from touching the floor, but it will be longer before her beard is natural again.

It will be a long time before Elvis's ears are long again. It's probably about two years until he has a full length coat.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I talked with dale and dale said he would be excellent to show darn on the hair I had no idea it took so long for it to grow out


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## Yogi's Mom (Jan 6, 2013)

*Ok First Elvis Is Adorable Just Like he is. Just So Cute!!!!*
*Love his Little face.*

*Sylie I Love Her Coat Just Beautiful And what a awesome bed. Love love love it.*

*Last Here- Yogi. No Show Malt, But getting So Fluffy.*
*He my Handsome little man.*


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I will put the work in no matter what into showing him he is my love


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

How old is Elvis? That would be a consideration if it will take a year or two to grow his coat out. Showing/finishing a dog costs thousands of dollars and time.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

He is two


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

How did you make a decision to show this dog instead of the other one--or do you plan to show both of them eventually?


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

It will definitely take between 1 1/2 - 2 years to have him in show coat.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

triplecminis said:


> He is two
> 
> 
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I found his pedigree on your website. Looks like he's just a few months shy of his third birthday. If it will take two years to grow his coat, you might be better off putting your time and money into showing a puppy.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

He was the first male I bought so I thought I'd show him first


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I asked dale if he was so material and he said yes and gave me the name of someone I am waiting to hear back from


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Remember that it's not just the length of the coat, but also the need to even it out and get it into show condition. Although you MIGHT have it to the ground in just over a year, it will probably be 1 1/2 year -- but it will also take another 6 months to get it all evened out and into show condition. 

Because Elvis is already 3, he will be in the Open Dog class and will need to be in good hair if he is going to be competitive.


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## little+bella (May 19, 2013)

I love yall's pictures!!! I wonder what my little Bella will look like as she grows up. I know we all love our babies!!!!!


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

triplecminis said:


> I asked dale if he was so material and he said yes and gave me the name of someone I am waiting to hear back from
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I know people who have grown out dogs to take them back in the ring. It does typically take a year or so. Being in TX you would have some very well conditioned and competitive dogs. There are some areas of the country where grooming is top notch and I am afraid from what I have seen TX is one of those places. Still, the learning process of growing him out and getting him ring ready would be part of the value of doing it. 

From the picture though it looks like Elvis' coat may be thin in some areas (I see a lot of pink on his chest). If he has a thin coat, that can be hard to get good length on. It may be just the picture.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I was thinking the same as Carina (Lisi has thin hair too), but did not want to say it! 
Can you post a video of him---to help evaluate. That was behind the ? I asked about why you decided to show him instead of the other male you have.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I will take more Picts this evening


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## Leila'sMommy (Oct 20, 2012)

I don't know how long it takes, but he sure is cute!


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

He has such a cute face :wub:


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

He is the ultimate love bug to boot u could truly not ask for a better dog


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

Talked to dale and he wants me to learn slow and right how to be a breeder of show dogs so we are going to wait on Elvis to grow out his coat and show him
I agree I am in no rush to cut corners and I want this to be special and I couldn't love a dog more than I love Elvis so I will anxiously be waiting on my boy 


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## babycake7 (Jan 30, 2012)

I know little of dog showing...I just want to say that Elvis is a cutie pie!!!


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

triplecminis said:


> Talked to dale and he wants me to learn slow and right how to be a breeder of show dogs so we are going to wait on Elvis to grow out his coat and show him
> I agree I am in no rush to cut corners and I want this to be special and I couldn't love a dog more than I love Elvis so I will anxiously be waiting on my boy
> 
> 
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Have you given any thought to starting him in obedience. He doesn't need to be in full coat for other types of showing than conformation. It might be a good starting point to get both of you working together and into the dog show world.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

Obedience that's a thought I will start working with Elvis on lead and we will see where that gets us 


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

triplecminis said:


> Talked to dale and he wants me to learn slow and right how to be a breeder of show dogs so we are going to wait on Elvis to grow out his coat and show him
> I agree I am in no rush to cut corners and I want this to be special and I couldn't love a dog more than I love Elvis so I will anxiously be waiting on my boy
> 
> 
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So you've decided to put your breeding program on hold until you can learn to do it the right way? Or will you continue to breed as before?


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

No I am going to breed on a very very small scale to look puppies over for me to keep


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

To show


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I am going to take a huge step back though


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

triplecminis said:


> No I am going to breed on a very very small scale to look puppies over for me to keep
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


:smpullhair::smpullhair:


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I will be asking advise first talking with dale about my females and having them evaluated too 


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

Not just going to ever look at this the same way as before I have learned a lot and welcome more chances to learn


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Short & simple: Stop breeding until you finish a dog!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

triplecminis said:


> No I am going to breed on a very very small scale to look puppies over for me to keep
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App





elly said:


> :smpullhair::smpullhair:


That's what I was afraid of. :thmbdn:


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

You would think Dale from Cherub Maltese would care about his reputation as a show breeder


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Sounds like to me you haven't really learned a thing...the right thing to do is to stop breeding period until you show your dogs and finish them!!! You have gotten some excellent advice from very well respected breeders on this site and you still choose to continue to be a byb breeder...don't talk the talk until you walk the walk! :smilie_tischkante:


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Looking at it from the other side, the OP is going to have a hard time finding someone who will sell her a nice show dog because of the way she got started. If the goal now is to produce her next show dog, it is not a horrible thing (IMO) that she breeds a litter hoping to produce a show pup. Technically, I bred a litter before I had finished my first dog but it was what I did after I bred the litter that should really count so in my book, this is a 'let's wait and see' situation. 

I am not defending the OP just giving her the benefit of the doubt because the breed does need new people in it. She has a lot of work ahead of her if she is truly sincere so I am going to try to not make it harder for her by calling her a backyard breeder because her reasons for breeding seem to have changed (and that is a good thing!)

I know we've seen it over and over and over where people don't want to listen and usually leave the forum in a huff, but maybe just once, someone will have actually listened and followed through.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

bellaratamaltese said:


> Looking at it from the other side, the OP is going to have a hard time finding someone who will sell her a nice show dog because of the way she got started. If the goal now is to produce her next show dog, it is not a horrible thing (IMO) that she breeds a litter hoping to produce a show pup. Technically, I bred a litter before I had finished my first dog but it was what I did after I bred the litter that should really count so in my book, this is a 'let's wait and see' situation.
> 
> I am not defending the OP just giving her the benefit of the doubt because the breed does need new people in it. She has a lot of work ahead of her if she is truly sincere so I am going to try to not make it harder for her by calling her a backyard breeder because her reasons for breeding seem to have changed (and that is a good thing!)
> 
> I know we've seen it over and over and over where people don't want to listen and usually leave the forum in a huff, but maybe just once, someone will have actually listened and followed through.


And that litter produced my Frank! If she were to get some guidance for this breeding it might work. If she produced a nice dog on her own, she could be showing in 6 months or so. But she does need to get someone (someone with a really good reputation) to take a look at her breeding dogs. This will be a critical decision on her part.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I am not one that will ever put a bad word out there assoc with anyone I don't know now dale is being bashed too tisk tisk tisk I got my work cut out for me but I am will to stand here and take it because the reward will be worth it


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

bellaratamaltese said:


> Looking at it from the other side, the OP is going to have a hard time finding someone who will sell her a nice show dog because of the way she got started. If the goal now is to produce her next show dog, it is not a horrible thing (IMO) that she breeds a litter hoping to produce a show pup. Technically, I bred a litter before I had finished my first dog but it was what I did after I bred the litter that should really count so in my book, this is a 'let's wait and see' situation.
> 
> I am not defending the OP just giving her the benefit of the doubt because the breed does need new people in it. She has a lot of work ahead of her if she is truly sincere so I am going to try to not make it harder for her by calling her a backyard breeder because her reasons for breeding seem to have changed (and that is a good thing!)
> 
> I know we've seen it over and over and over where people don't want to listen and usually leave the forum in a huff, but maybe just once, someone will have actually listened and followed through.


Good point, Stacy. We do need new people. And there were a lot of breeders we now see as reputable show breeders who started out breeding before they learned the importance of immersing themselves as students of the breed and became dedicated show breeders. 



triplecminis said:


> I got my work cut out for me but I am will to stand here and take it because the reward will be worth it
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I appreciate that you recognize that proving your commitment to the breed and the learning process is worth the effort. 

The ethical, reputable show breeder is always trying to learn about breeding to the standard, breeding for health and temperament. I would encourage you to make sure you know as much as you can about the dogs in the pedigrees behind your girls before you make the decision to breed them again.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

OK, confession time. I bred my bitch to an Austrian champion about 100 yrs. ago. This took place under the auspices of my breeder---she picked the dog & made the arrangements. The result was 2 puppies---one got stuck in the birth canal & died---we rushed the mom & 2nd pup to the vet who was able to save both but the next 6-8 wks. were complicated requiring strict discipline from DH & me. We set our alarms every 2 hrs to feed pups as the mom rejected him at birth. Thanks to my breeder's helpful advice he survived (as did we) but he had porta -systemic -shunting & we paid for our mistake for almost 17 yrs. and lots of $$$. OK, it was a fluke, could have happened to anyone, but I would not wish it on my worst enemy. I was young, naive, and too self confident. 
It is difficult to be sympathetic to the OP when one knows what can happen. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt due to my high respect for Stacey & Carina. So my challenge is: "prove yourself here!":thumbsup:
Edit: I was actively showing at the time in the UK, was a member of the maltese club & working on getting my own afix (which I was successful at), & taking classes on showing.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

edelweiss said:


> OK, confession time. I bred my bitch to an Austrian champion about 100 yrs. ago. This took place under the auspices of my breeder---she picked the dog & made the arrangements. The result was 2 puppies---one got stuck in the birth canal & died---we rushed the mom & 2nd pup to the vet who was able to save both but the next 6-8 wks. were complicated requiring strict discipline from DH & me. We set our alarms every 2 hrs to feed pups as the mom rejected him at birth. Thanks to my breeder's helpful advice he survived (as did we) but he had porta -systemic -shunting & we paid for our mistake for almost 17 yrs. and lots of $$$. OK, it was a fluke, could have happened to anyone, but I would not wish it on my worst enemy. I was young, naive, and too self confident.
> It is difficult to be sympathetic to the OP when one knows what can happen. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt due to my high respect for Stacey & Carina. So my challenge is: "prove yourself here!":thumbsup:
> Edit: I was actively showing at the time in the UK, was a member of the maltese club & working on getting my own afix (which I was successful at), & taking classes on showing.


I can understand just how devastating that must have been. I know it was a long time ago, but I am so sorry that you had that experience, Sandi. I have remarked many times just how blessed I have been in my first litters (even with some real struggles with our Itty Bitty last time, at least she survived). Many of my friends have gone through horrors like you describe. Breeding is not for the faint of heart, and truly no matter whether you do it right or do it blindly the potential for hard life consequences remain. However, it is important to remember, that doing it the right way offers better odds for us, for the dogs and for their new owners as well.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

CloudClan said:


> I can understand just how devastating that must have been. I know it was a long time ago, but I am so sorry that you had that experience, Sandi. I have remarked many times just how blessed I have been in my first litters (even with some real struggles with our Itty Bitty last time, at least she survived). Many of my friends have gone through horrors like you describe. Breeding is not for the faint of heart, and truly no matter whether you do it right or do it blindly the potential for hard life consequences remain. However, it is important to remember, that doing it the right way offers better odds for us, for the dogs and for their new owners as well.


:goodpost: You are 1000% right! 
I am sad that it soured me on showing & breeding for life. It was heart-breaking & devastating to say the least. I came to the conclusion that I am just to sensitive to show or breed, but I wish otherwise! :wub:


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I would never enter into anything foolishly nothing evolving animals ever I have the biggest heart no one here knows how I am with my babies but ask my vet I have nothing to hide his link is on my page it always has been I have him and two back up vets that know nothing is spared when it comes to my babies. Byb could hardly ever net me more than I put into my babies and its ridiculous to even here me called one knowing I buy trifexis for each dog I own at 119.76 a box pet tab plus vitamins life's abundance dog food shipped in I do ultra sounds on all my girls and god forbid I lose one they get cremated all my dogs are micro chipped all have dentals yearly all r utd on shots I hardly think it is fair to call me a byb a novice yes I see that I have a ways to go and will continue to improve


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

There are two types of breeder--show breeder and backyard breeder (which can run the gamut from well-meaning and takes care of his/her dogs to puppymill). If you're not showing your dogs, and you're breeding them, you are a backyard breeder.

I'd encourage anyone who backyard breeds to come spend a day at the shelter and see the sadness and devastation that has been caused by careless, thoughtless, sometimes clueless and idiotic people.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

So ur saying a show dog never ends up in a shelter and a breeder like me can never put a dog in a good home 


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

zooeysmom said:


> There are two types of breeder--show breeder and backyard breeder (which can run the gamut from well-meaning and takes care of his/her dogs to puppymill). If you're not showing your dogs, and you're breeding them, you are a backyard breeder.
> 
> I'd encourage anyone who backyard breeds to come spend a day at the shelter and see the sadness and devastation that has been caused by careless, thoughtless, sometimes clueless and idiotic people.


:goodpost: And take a look at Pet finder so may need homes :crying:


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

Well I am going to start showing soon I will be buying all the training materials I can get my hands on


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

My Izzy 


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

How do you know any of your females meet the breed standard? What research has been done on their pedigrees? Do you know if any of their relatives have produced genetic defects like liver shunts or GME? Things that kill Maltese? 
Breeding "up" is a very rough slope to climb. It takes a number of generations and careful breeding as well as some luck to breed a show quality dog from a poor quality bitch. The cost of doing so and finding a reputable breeder to breed a quality male to a poor quality bitch is a rough thing. 
Please be sure your bitches are of good quality and their pedigrees support healthy, quality dogs. The idea to just breed any bitch to a Ch. and get a show quality dog is not realistic.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

My females all came from an established show breeding home anyone know more about hustok Maltese I bought her females


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

The females she was selling show puppies out of are now owned by me


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm not sure that Hutsok isn't a byb/mill


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

You might consider an outside evaluation of your breeding stock....


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

She showed her dogs now she's a byb too


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I have had my vet examine each dog dale told me I have beautiful dogs what else do I need to do their pedigrees are all posted I can post Picts as time allows


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Showing dogs alone does not make one a reputable breeder, but showing dogs is an essential part of being a reputable breeder.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

If you are really serious about breeding show quality dogs, then you need to find a mentor to go over your dogs IN PERSON with you. They need to show you the strengths and faults of each dog. You need them to help mentor you in selecting breedings that will produce beautiful, healthy puppies.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

True I can vouch for that considering she back stabbed me on a deal with silverbrook Maltese 


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

It really doesn't matter if your current Maltese came from show breeders or have champions in their pedigree. You still have a lot to learn about the breed, especially about genetics. Both liver disease and GME run in our breed. Putting two Maltese together for the sole purpose of producing puppies is a crap shoot. Often the best genetic match for a particular female is a male hundreds or even thousands of miles away. I have had show breeders explain to me how important it is to bred to reduce the faults (no dog is perfect) and improve the quality of your lines with each and every breeding. There are no shortcuts to gaining this knowledge. You have to find a mentor to advise you and guide you through the process.

Until you have proven your self and put champions on your girls no reputable breeder will allow you to use their male. The reverse is true. Show breeders would not want Elvis bred to one of their girls unless he was a champion.

Time will tell if you are being sincere and invest the time and money into doing it correctly.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

Anyone deal with silverbrook not to get off subject


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

triplecminis said:


> My females all came from an established show breeding home anyone know more about hustok Maltese I bought her females
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Hustok sells her puppies on Puppyfind. That says it all!

Breeders.NET


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

I do believe you have a good heart and good intentions. Do you understand the purpose of showing? The reason the AKC was founded? It was and is to set a breed standard and to have your dogs judged to see if they conform, and how well they conform to the standard BEFORE you breed them. In a world where there are too many homeless dogs (and too many people) one needs to behave responsibly and breed only those dogs who will contribute to _improving_ the standard. Because so many people have recklessly allowed their pets to breed, we are faced not only with overpopulation, but with more dogs who are registered as Maltese, but do not have the qualities and physical characteristics of the breed. I can't tell you how many 15 pound Malts I have seen out in the world.

I have an enormous love for the world of dogs who were bred for a purpose. It amazes me how even long before humans had a clear understanding of genetics, they were able to use genes to develop physical and temperamental characteristics specific to different breeds. I think of it as God giving his children a coloring book and crayons (genes) and asking them to do their best. It is a blessing indeed. But, I have no tolerance for brats who just want to scribble. (I am not talking about you.)

I honestly am unclear about your intentions. I just want to make it clear that showing is not just an avenue to selling puppies, it is a commitment...and a very expensive one at that.


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

Sylie said:


> I do believe you have a good heart and good intentions. Do you understand the purpose of showing? The reason the AKC was founded? It was and is to set a breed standard and to have your dogs judged to see if they conform, and how well they conform to the standard BEFORE you breed them. In a world where there are too many homeless dogs (and too many people) one needs to behave responsibly and breed only those dogs who will contribute to _improving_ the standard. Because so many people have recklessly allowed their pets to breed, we are faced not only with overpopulation, but with more dogs who are registered as Maltese, but do not have the qualities and physical characteristics of the breed. I can't tell you how many 15 pound Malts I have seen out in the world.
> 
> I have an enormous love for the world of dogs who were bred for a purpose. It amazes me how even long before humans had a clear understanding of genetics, they were able to use genes to develop physical and temperamental characteristics specific to different breeds. I think of it as God giving his children a coloring book and crayons (genes) and asking them to do their best. It is a blessing indeed. But, I have no tolerance for brats who just want to scribble. (I am not talking about you.)
> 
> I honestly am unclear about your intentions. I just want to make it clear that showing is not just an avenue to selling puppies, it is a commitment...and a very expensive one at that.


:ThankYou::goodpost:


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I want nothing more than to better anyone who would like to teach me I can fly to u see ur dogs watch a show with u just let me know I am open to learning


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

May I ask how many Maltese you have now? It sounds like you have made quite a financial investment in "breeding stock". Can you afford to start all over again the right way?


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Although Spoiled Maltese has a handful of wonderful Show Breeders such as Stacy (bellaratamaltese) and Carina (CloudClan) to name just 2, SM is primarily a forum of pet owners -- not breeders. We love our fluffs and try to learn about health, food, care, pet grooming, etc from each other as well as forming online friendships that have often lead to meeting in person.

Many on SM have gotten their fluffs from reputable breeders, some from BYBs, some from Puppymills and some from Rescue -- but we all have one thing in common, we love our fluffs and care about their welfare.

Several go to shows occasionally to see their friends that show and for Maltese meetups.

Having been a top winning Lhasa Apso Breeder for more than 25 years, I would never come to a forum such as SM to learn about showing, coat care for show dogs, pedigrees, how to be a success in the show ring, handler recommendations, etc. etc.

IMHO, if you want to be successful, you need to pick a mentor. This is the person that you turn to for trusted advice. You have mentioned Dale Martenson several times and if he is your mentor, then this is the person you should be asking these questions of. Having known Dale for years, I know that Malts are not his primary breed and that he inherited the Malts from his MIL when she passed. I love Dale and would go to him in a heartbeat if I wanted to know about a Japanese Chin, but, I would look elsewhere for someone that truly knows Maltese inside and out. Of course, Dale is a good judge of dogs and would know what is and isn't show quality.

When I started, I went to shows, combed breed magazines and found the look that I continued to gravitate to. I learned that I liked one particular line and contacted that breeder. I found a mentor that had the same lines and studied pedigrees until I could recite them backwards and forwards and learned how genetics work. There is a lot of work that goes into this, and again, I encourage you to find a reputable show breeder that you feel you can learn from and work with. It is easiest to work with someone that isn't the biggest and busiest. A number of show breeders for Maltese are also handlers and often don't have time to mentor, but they sometimes have protégés that they've helped along the way that could become a great mentor themselves.

Texas is a difficult state to start with as it is extremely competitive. You have Rhapsody, Tara Martin, Tajon (in OK), Pashes, Divine (in LA) and a handful of others that are at your doorstep and have been breeding and winning for a long time. It isn't impossible because others have done it. When I started showing the Lhasas, I was competing in California which is an extremely competitive State. 

Both Stacy and Carina are great examples of small breeders that had a dream and have done extremely well with their breeding programs and in a very short timeframe. Both, however, worked with other top breeders to learn about showing, breeding, pedigrees, etc. 

If you truly want to be successful in the show ring, then you need to work closely with other people that are breeding for show, showing their Malts and winning. I hope that you find a mentor. I know that you want advice, but, you want advice on things that most of the SM members are not truly able to help you with.


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

:goodpost:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Lacie's Mom said:


> Although Spoiled Maltese has a handful of wonderful Show Breeders such as Stacy (bellaratamaltese) and Carina (CloudClan) to name just 2, SM is primarily a forum of pet owners -- not breeders. We love our fluffs and try to learn about health, food, care, pet grooming, etc from each other as well as forming online friendships that have often lead to meeting in person.
> 
> Many on SM have gotten their fluffs from reputable breeders, some from BYBs, some from Puppymills and some from Rescue -- but we all have one thing in common, we love our fluffs and care about their welfare.
> 
> ...


:ThankYou:Lynn for your post. I wish this person luck if she is going to become a show breeder the right way. BUT, and I hope I read this wrong, did she say she has 8 dogs, going to purchase another breeding FM, and some are living in a kennel because there is NO room for them indoors. Maltese should never live in a kennel life. What type of temperament will this lead to?


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

No I am not purchasing any dogs no time in the near future not even thinking about it trust me I had a fe that was supposed to be a show ch line dog I was thinking on but since I came here and got a little more educated I passed


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

For the breeders are there tests to run like vWd for dobermans??? Can you give me a list so I can have my dogs tested


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

triplecminis said:


> No I am not purchasing any dogs no time in the near future not even thinking about it trust me I had a fe that was supposed to be a show ch line dog I was thinking on but since I came here and got a little more educated I passed
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Thanks for your post. This is a wonderful site, and I am so happy you stayed around. I hope the kennels have air conditioning, or you are able to bring all of them inside the home soon.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

Kernel has ac but the dogs r no longer in there


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Maltese should have a normal heart on auscultation (to rule out PDA), normal/grade I with no lameness patellae as a puppy, a chemistry panel, a bile acid assay, and a LOT of pedigree research. If they have any chronic eye issues an ophthalmologist should examine them. Maltese can have hereditary eye conditions like distichiasis. We have things like GME which have no testing for but likely has a genetic component. You need to be aware of what is behind your breeding. Unfortunately there are no genetic marker tests for Maltese.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

Patellas are all good eyes are all excellent will do chem profiles on all dogs to get baseline numbers 


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Don't forget the bile acid assay. Maltese are prone to liver shunts and MVD. You need to know where each of your dogs stand with this.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

Ok


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Again - these are the types of questions that you need to address with your mentor -- not with the SM Forum.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Lacie's Mom said:


> Again - these are the types of questions that you need to address with your mentor -- not with the SM Forum.


:thumbsup: I agree!

There is no shortcut to becoming a reputable breeder. You need to find someone close to you who is able to see your Maltese in real life to mentor you through the process. 

You have so much to learn about Maltese. FYI, do you know about GME? The current study being done? Liver shunts in Maltese? The clinical trials to find a genetic marker? 

No one will care if their puppy has a champion sire if he has a liver shunt or dies from GME. Genetics are hugely important in a breed with such a small gene pool.

SM cannot teach you how to become a responsible breeder. You must have the passion, be willing to invest the time and money to do it right and guidance from an experienced show breeder.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Heterochromia Iridis is also becoming an established fault in maltese---it is hardly known or talked about publicly but it is a big fault for showing. Some of the Asian breeds seem to carry this genetic fault and it is prevalent now. A number of breeders don't even recognize it yet. With maltese it usually has to do w/the blue eye gene & is recessive genetically. It does no harm to the pup but is considered a fault in showing. 
Every good breeder should have a very solid knowledge of line abnormalities and genetics---this is a huge field and not easy to master---if indeed that would be possible.


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## dcm (Aug 31, 2012)

Ladysmom said:


> Hustok sells her puppies on Puppyfind. That says it all!
> 
> Breeders.NET


Probably off topic again.....but I did random searches on breeders.net and found a number of "reputable, ama Malt breeders on this site" -- not to mention the numerous other breeds.....so am wondering when, who, & what makes this a bad site to advertise on? I recall when the internet was fairly new.....this was a premium site for advertising.

Where did this kind of thinking come from? I've also seen actual show breeders advertise on Puppyfind as well.

I know what you all consider bad breeders hit these sites as well, but to be quite simplistic ....if you were to use the same line of thinking, then anyone using the internet would be a bad breeder....including facebook? why not? bad breeders are using FB too. just sayin....


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

You raise some good points, Debra, as did Helen when she said she's on Puppyfind because most people do internet searches for Maltese puppies, not Maltese breeders.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

dcm said:


> Probably off topic again.....but I did random searches on breeders.net and found a number of "reputable, ama Malt breeders on this site" -- not to mention the numerous other breeds.....so am wondering when, who, & what makes this a bad site to advertise on? I recall when the internet was fairly new.....this was a premium site for advertising.
> 
> Where did this kind of thinking come from? I've also seen actual show breeders advertise on Puppyfind as well.
> 
> I know what you all consider bad breeders hit these sites as well, but to be quite simplistic ....if you were to use the same line of thinking, then anyone using the internet would be a bad breeder....including facebook? why not? bad breeders are using FB too. just sayin....


Guilt by association, I guess. Puppyfind is known for puppymills and backyard breeders, stolen pictures to dupe people, etc. It has a terrible reputation so anyone advertising there will be judged by the company they keep.

Also, if any breeder whether they show or not is producing so many puppies they have to resort to Puppyfind to sell them they are producing too many litters IMO. The show breeders I respect usually have people waiting for the puppies they decide to place as pets.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Before you start worrying about what tests to do for puppies, or whether or not PuppyFind is a good website, I would suggest that, if you really want to become involved in showing you do the following.

1. Decide on the dog that you will show.

2. Start getting that dog into show condition.

3. Go to shows (there are lots of shows in your area) and start visiting with the people that are showing their Maltese to learn more about EVERYTHING but especially about coat care and how to present a Maltese for show.

4. During the time you are waiting to show and finish your dog, you can begin to work with a Mentor and learn about breeding, pedigrees, genetics, various lines and which dogs are carriers of what traits, etc. etc.

5. AFTER and only AFTER you have actually finished your first Champion, begin to think about breeding.

If you really want to be involved in showing and become a reputable breeder, you will follow this type of advice. Otherwise, imho, you are simply interested in becoming another PUPPYMILL -- but one that will rely on having "Champion Lines" to help sell more puppies.

If you are sincere about wanting to become involved in showing then -- WALK THE WALK; don't just TALK THE TALK!!!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Lacie's Mom said:


> Before you start worrying about what tests to do for puppies, or whether or not PuppyFind is a good website, I would suggest that, if you really want to become involved in showing you do the following.
> 
> 1. Decide on the dog that you will show.
> 
> ...


Excellent post, Lynn!


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Debra, do you sell your puppies on PuppyFind? 

I personally never have but if a breeder is doing what they should to protect the breed, i am not going to judge them because of an ad on puppyfind


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

Puppies from good breeders are hard to find. They don't breed as much and then keep a lot for show so if someone advertises on puppyfind, I would honestly be suspicious why they have a surplus. 


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## dcm (Aug 31, 2012)

bellaratamaltese said:


> Debra, do you sell your puppies on PuppyFind?


No. But it's always been an interest of mine, good or bad, to follow website, newspapers, etc. to see what people have. Will also say......before the mags went out of business, Dog World and Dog Fancy were also used quite widely...by both types of breeders.

As I said, I found ama members on breeders.net and I've seen that site mentioned on here (not in a good way) in the past as well.

On most any public site or publication, you will find good or bad. I simply find it interesting that folks are so willing to bash.

I must admit tho....I've seen some butt ugly Malts on Puppyfind.........but have also seen some quite nice ones. You want to see bad breeders try Hoobly

I thoroughly believe in protecting the breed -- I hate the designer breeds....not the dogs themselves but the idiots who think they are producing healthier new breeds. Don't get me started on that.


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## Madison's Mom (Dec 26, 2007)

Lacie's Mom said:


> Again - these are the types of questions that you need to address with your mentor -- not with the SM Forum.


I think it's rather interesting.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I personally can't stand the true backyard breeders mixing all kinds of so called designer dogs they don't bring any of their dogs to the vet buy shots from feedstore and wormers and we have to clean up the destruction they create 


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I am always preaching buyer education ask get informed nothing breaks my heart more than to see a parvo puppy


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

iPhone users I have a cool app I use it keeps track of everything for my dogs it's called ipetcare









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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

dcm said:


> No. But it's always been an interest of mine, good or bad, to follow website, newspapers, etc. to see what people have. Will also say......before the mags went out of business, Dog World and Dog Fancy were also used quite widely...by both types of breeders.
> 
> As I said, I found ama members on breeders.net and I've seen that site mentioned on here (not in a good way) in the past as well.
> 
> ...


Is this your website?

Home - May-Fam Maltese


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

triplecminis said:


> I personally can't stand the true backyard breeders mixing all kinds of so called designer dogs they don't bring any of their dogs to the vet buy shots from feedstore and wormers and we have to clean up the destruction they create
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


A "true" BYB is not one that only mixes breeds? I really don't think you know what a BYB is to be honest.


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

:smilie_tischkante::smpullhair:


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

SammieMom said:


> A "true" BYB is not one that only mixes breeds? I really don't think you know what a BYB is to be honest.


:ThankYou::goodpost:


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## Yogi's Mom (Jan 6, 2013)

:smilie_tischkante::smpullhair::smpullhair:
*Nickee*Wow ---Way over my Head!*


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

triplecminis said:


> iPhone users I have a cool app I use it keeps track of everything for my dogs it's called ipetcare
> View attachment 142570
> 
> 
> ...


What app is this and do you have authorization to post the screen shots?


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Ladysmom said:


> Is this your website?
> 
> Home - May-Fam Maltese


I am curious about this too. Are you breeding puppies Debra???


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

pammy4501 said:


> I am curious about this too. Are you breeding puppies Debra???


there is one puppy avail now with a picture, and says in home, hobby breeder for 35 years. I'm not sure who's website it is though.


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

It's my dogs screen shot


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I talked to my hubby today cause he noticed I've been down lately I told him everything going on with this site he reminded me of who I am. He said you are the woman who started with two unregistered minis and built triple c miniature horses home of top tens national grand champion sired stallions top ten driving horses and top producing mares you owned and operated the farm of over 60 head of horses your clients all loved you because your are a great person don't be judge by those who will not open their hearts or eyes to see the real you I love that man the negativity here is not what I need to make my dreams a reality 


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## cheekyradish (Mar 24, 2013)

triplecminis said:


> iPhone users I have a cool app I use it keeps track of everything for my dogs it's called ipetcare
> View attachment 142570
> 
> 
> ...


I use this app too! Maybe you can solve this dilemma for me... I can't seem to enter in the dates of shots.. it won't let me change from today.. any suggestions or advice? Thanks!!


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

Nancy, I'm sorry you're feeling down because of some of the negative comments  I would take Lynn's suggestion and find a mentor and discuss all of the breeding issues with him/her. You seem like a very nice person who is willing to learn. I really hope you'll stick around and at least chat about basic pet issues.

Hugs,


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I want to but even when I am trying to be nice and helpful I get nasty comebacks ill try to ignore a little more and just chalk some of it up to not everyone is happy person


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## triplecminis (May 15, 2013)

I have someone that is evaluating my girls now and working with me I will be blood testing everyone but I just got this feeling in certain people's eyes I could breed champion after champion and still be called a byb just cause they want to hurt not help 


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

I really don't believe _anyone_ here wants to hurt over help. Everyone's just concerned for the welfare of the breed because we all (you included) love our Malts so much. A lot of folks here have had heartache from their dogs dying because of poor breeding. I for one want to see you succeed!!


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Nancy-This is a forum. People will always post their viewpoints. That does not mean they are unhappy. Quite the opposite. 


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

SammieMom said:


> Nancy-This is a forum. People will always post their viewpoints. That does not mean they are unhappy. Quite the opposite.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


:thumbsup: Good post.

We are not unhappy people. We only get "unhappy" with people who do not practice responsible breeding. Spoiled Maltese is and forever will be a forum that supports responsible breeding and rescue. Backyard breeders are not supported here.

Find a mentor and stop breeding until you learn to do it the right way. Until then, you will meet with skepticism and negativity. 

Actions speak louder than words.


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Ladysmom said:


> :thumbsup: Good post.
> 
> We are not unhappy people. We only get "unhappy" with people who do not practice responsible breeding. Spoiled Maltese is and forever will be a forum that supports responsible breeding and rescue. Backyard breeders are not supported here.
> 
> ...



Excellent post Marj. :aktion033::aktion033:


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## Madison's Mom (Dec 26, 2007)

I went page to page one of this thread and would like to say this: Nancy, Elivis is a pretty boy. I wish you the best with him.


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

triplecminis said:


> I talked to my hubby today cause he noticed I've been down lately I told him everything going on with this site he reminded me of who I am. He said you are the woman who started with two unregistered minis and built triple c miniature horses home of top tens national grand champion sired stallions top ten driving horses and top producing mares you owned and operated the farm of over 60 head of horses your clients all loved you because your are a great person don't be judge by those who will not open their hearts or eyes to see the real you I love that man the negativity here is not what I need to make my dreams a reality
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Nancy, I believe that you have the determination and passion to turn your breeding into the right kind! Getting started takes humility (which you've demonstrated by sticking around) and willingness to learn. I really hope that you find a trusted mentor locally who can teach you ALL the things that go specifically into maltese showing/breeding- this includes all aspects of health, structure/conformation, etc. I think everyone in life deserves a chance to makes things right and I commend you for setting your goal. 

I can't offer much help as a pet owner except what I know from a pet owner's perspective. Many of us may have knowledge and experience but your endeavors must be done with a show breeder who can go over things with you.

Being an ethical show breeder will be filled with many ups and downs, joy and upsets, but the love of and dedication to the breed should fill you with desire to make each generation healthier and more wonderful than the prior. 

Good luck!


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## Maslen Maltese (Jan 19, 2011)

I would get my dogs evaluated by someone who isn't making money off of you in some way (be it services, selling a dog in the future, letting you use their stud dogs, kick-back for referring you to some other "handler" or "trainer"; etc.) Go to a dog show and see if you can make friends with some breeders. Maybe even bring your dog and see how it reacts to such an environment so you might have an idea of what you are going to need to work on. Or, if you like, I can reach out to some different breeders in TX and see if they would be will to talk and give an opinion to you.

As far as vet "examine", I would recommend printing off all the forms from the OFA website for heart, eyes, patellas and thyroid and have those completed. As well as, run a full CBC and bile acids. 

Really Triflexis, UTD on shots, heartworm meds, good quality dog food etc. is the minimum anyone who owns a dog should be doing. And, in fact, I have heard mix reviews on the Triflexis b/c of side effects. Also, it does not appear to be approved to be used safely in breeding bitches. You need to read the precautions on the label to make sure that the product is safe for use in breeding animals.



triplecminis said:


> I have had my vet examine each dog dale told me I have beautiful dogs what else do I need to do their pedigrees are all posted I can post Picts as time allows
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Maslen Maltese said:


> I would get my dogs evaluated by someone who isn't making money off of you in some way (be it services, selling a dog in the future, letting you use their stud dogs, kick-back for referring you to some other "handler" or "trainer"; etc.) Go to a dog show and see if you can make friends with some breeders. Maybe even bring your dog and see how it reacts to such an environment so you might have an idea of what you are going to need to work on. Or, if you like, I can reach out to some different breeders in TX and see if they would be will to talk and give an opinion to you.
> 
> As far as vet "examine", I would recommend printing off all the forms from the OFA website for heart, eyes, patellas and thyroid and have those completed. As well as, run a full CBC and bile acids.
> 
> Really Triflexis, UTD on shots, heartworm meds, good quality dog food etc. is the minimum anyone who owns a dog should be doing. And, in fact, I have heard mix reviews on the Triflexis b/c of side effects. Also, it does not appear to be approved to be used safely in breeding bitches. You need to read the precautions on the label to make sure that the product is safe for use in breeding animals.


:goodpost:


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