# intense red staining - excessive licking



## Luna'sMom

This could go in the health or the grooming section but seeing as I think it's health related and not just aesthetic... I decided on "health". 

Luna is 2.5 years old now and after having very little trouble with staining (after teething) she has started staining everywhere... her feet, face, butt. I don't know quite what to do at the moment - the vet just shrugs if off with a "all white dogs stain". 

She seems to have very itchy paws which she licks all the time (I try to discourage this but to no avail). I have noticed abit of a rash between her toes which I am sure is either caused by the licking or the reason why she licks. I have tried keeping the hair short in this area to increase air flow but it seems to make it worse. She also chews off her toe nails (or shortens them herself)...which makes them ragged but too short for me to cut and neaten up. 

She has recently started licking her bottom ALOT which is gross and her hair is getting stained red/rust. 

Her tear staining is heavy and she also has staining around her mouth. 

She had her teeth cleaned in January this year - as her breath was getting stinky and I wanted to keep on top of it. It's getting stinky again + her teeth are getting 'dirty' again. I feel this might be related to her butt licking but am not sure. I don't brush her teeth as I haven't yet found a brush which works in her small mouth but was thinking of trying "petzlife gel"

I feed her Royal Canin (dental diet) and sometimes Artemis or Eagle Pack if I can get ahold of them. I supplement with raw chicken necks/wings but haven't seen any affect. 

I have been thinking of changing her to a 'raw' diet but am abit leery. The vet did seem to think it could be allergies to pollen but it's no longer hay fever season and the staining has not stopped/improved at all. I don't think diet could be the sole reason as I had fed her Royal Canin before when she wasn't staining. 

I don't really care about the staining except that I feel she is uncomfortable (all the licking) and that the staining is indicative of health issues... 

Does anyone have some tips/ideas that I could use to try and help her out? I bring it up every time i see the vet (and I have tried 3 different vets) but they don't seem to be able to help her and I feel like I'm wasting money.

Poor little Luna - I've been exposing all her gross habits on the internet :HistericalSmiley:

For a comparison this is a recent photo and the one in my signature is from 1.5 years ago


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## nekkidfish

Awww ... poor baby!! I'm not certain, but it sure sounds like allergies to me.

I'm sure others will chime in ... hopefully it's as simple as changing her diet.

HUGz and good luck! Jules


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## luvmyfurbaby

It sounds like allergies to me too. I'd switch her over completely to raw if I were you. Snoopy my BT had horrible allergies and constant ear infections. Since switching him over he is a different dog.:aktion033:


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## LJSquishy

I'm so sorry Luna is having these issues.  I am going through the EXACT same thing with London and so far our vet can't figure out what's going on. She first said she had a nailbed infection so she went on antibiotics for that (which took 3 months on and off, but I still don't know if that was the real problem), and now she wonders if it's allergies...she was put on a 2 week trial dosage of an antihistimine which didn't work, and I am now trying 1/4 pill of Zyrtec once per day for 2 weeks. So far it's been almost a week and it's not helping at all. London has all of the same staining, licking, etc problems you are facing with Luna.

Pretty soon I will be taking London into a different vet for a 2nd opinion.


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## mysugarbears

Sounds like it could be allergies. I had a terrible time with Chloe chewing on her feet. The vet wanted to put her on predisone for the itching, but i decided to try an elimination diet first, come to find out she's allergic to anything poultry. Hope that helps and hope Luna starts to feel better.


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## bellasmummy

I think it sounds like it could be allergies too. we had the same thing with the family jack russles and his feet were almost pure red looking! it seems to be triggered by different foods (for him anyway) maybe another vet might take it more seriously?? xx


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## Pure Paws

It sounds like a food alllergy. Wellness recently bought out eagle pack and they have been changing the formulas. All of the holistic type stores in the Houston area that were carrying it have dropped the line. One of my good friends does a lot of research on dog food and dropped it because they will not reveal where they are getting their ingredients from. (China? where the tainted ingredients came from). I have been told that they are trying to get there protien source more from the cheaper grains than the meats in the formulas. Several companies like Natures's Variety, Innova, Stella and Chewy's, and other brands not sold at big pet store chains will probably help with the licking and chewing. Like someone posted some Maltese are even allergic to poultry, so you might want to try Lamb, Duck or Salmon. Unfortanatly most vets know little about nutrition and would rather keep you coming back for treatment and selling you the foods they sell, usally with little results. This is kind of a sore subject with me and my wife. We had a five year old border collie we put to sleep over food allergies because we did not know better and the vets were no help. That was 20 years ago and it is still painful knowing that we could have hepled her by just changing her diet. If there is a wholelistic type store in your area that sells natural dog treats and food, they may be more help than the vet. Also if you feed her any treats check to see if they contain any flour, corn, wheat or soy, even if they say natural on them. These are also high allergins to dogs. People have said the quality dog food are not working for my dog and you find out they are giving the dogs treats that contain bad ingredients. One lady was giving her dog popcorn every night when they watched TV!!!!
Good Luck


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## mysugarbears

Pure Paws said:


> . Like someone posted some Maltese are even allergic to poultry, so you might want to try Lamb, Duck or Salmon.
> Good Luck


 

If it turns out that she is allergic to poultry remember Duck is considered poultry. I was feeding Chloe NB Potato/Duck and she is allergic to all poutry including Duck.


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## Silkmalteselover

I so hope you can get some help soon... This is sad that you have went to several vets with no answers... For cleaning teeth I have purchased a tool that is safer than any "sharp" tools sold for pets. I used to work at a vet hospital and watched them do dentals. One tool they used is called a feline dental extractor and it is shaped like a pair of pliers. The way I use it is to squeeze on the area of tarter and it just "pops" off. This tool is not sharp and my dogs are used to me working on their teeth at bath time. I can send you the link to where to purchase it if you are interested. My 6 year old female recently had surgery to repair a hernia and I asked them to look at her teeth while under and they said they are in great shape..because I am able to get the tarter off safely. OH how I hope you can find some answers to your staining...how are her ears? Once I had a dog that got either bacteria or yeast (possibly from ears) on her body that caused a rash, and staining and my vet was able to help me stop it. Jeanne


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## jmm

The red staining is typically due to yeast from the moisture of licking. Licking is typically due to allergies. Only 10% of allergies are food related. 90% are environmental. Please be sure she has her anal sacs emptied since she is really chewing at that area.


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## LJSquishy

I also wanted to add that Luna's allergies could be as simple as eliminating the chicken you're feeding her (although she may not have a chicken allergy).


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## Nikki's Mom

IMO, please please please don't treat the symptoms with antihistamines, treat the *cause.* You will only trash your dog's immune system if you treat the symptoms for an extended period of time. Antihistamines and steroids suppress the immune system


Change her food. Try one of these: 
1.raw food
2. home cooked
3. grain free kibble, like Acana. 

Use filtered water. If you do those things, her teeth and gums will be much better, too. 

If it is inhalation allergies, get an air cleaner for your home and switch to all hypoallergenic/fragrance free products in your home. 

I wish you the best.


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## Nikki's Mom

Pet Environmental Allergies | Five Best Pet Allergy Treatments

What to Do When Your Pet has Allergies

Does Your Pet Have Allergies? What You Need to Know and Do


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## Luna'sMom

Thanks for the great tips everyone! 

I feel confident it's not poultry allergies since I used to feed her on Eagle Pack Holistic Salmon formula - but then you never know so I will try to source another grain free non poultry diet. Most of the brands you guys have in the US aren't sold here in Australia so that will be a challenge. 

I will get her anal sacs expressed - thanks for the tip JMM. Definitely sounds like that might help that region. 

I know that the staining is caused by the moisture - from her licking everything and constant tearing. And this is what I want to fix - the licking and tearing - I know that once that is solved the hair will grow in white. 

I generally use 'earth choice' or green house cleaning solutions and there hasn't been any painting done recently. 

It's quite possibly pollen related as we moved from a 14th floor apartment to a house near a nature reserve. But I would think it would stop if that was the sole problem since it's no longer spring/summer really. 

I will look at getting her onto a raw or grain free diet and try to sort this all out!


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## thach8

aww....poor luna baby!
The ladies on here are a wealth of information. I hope whatever the cause of Luna's licking, it stops eventually. I took the advice of the ladies on here and moved Diamond to the acana pacifica (basically stopped her from eating poultry products). Her licking and super red paws (on the skin...not necessarily evident from her hair) stopped being such a problem. Her tear staining got better too. I'm now more aware of the treats I give her and try to avoid poultry, wheat, soy etc at all costs. It does help.

Please keep us updated on Luna's progress.


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## Harley & Dakotas Mum

Great to see you back Kylie! Hope you enjoyed your trip State-side over Christmas?

I zoomed into your bit about Luna licking her paws - same thing Harley used to do, and he was also starting to stain there.

Long story short ...after 2 different vets, I decided to take him to a dermatologist, who skin tested him for allergies. The Derm also swabbed his feet. He had a secondary bacterial infection in between his paw pads from the constant licking, so a 2 week course of antibiotics cleared that up perfectly, and we haven't had a problem with his paws since (coming up 3 yrs in Nov).

I think you know the rest of Harley's story.... You may want to think about having her paws swabbed for infection and skip the skin test for now .. the skin test means Luna will have to be put under, and you may not want to go down that road just yet (not to mention the expense!)

Your sweet girl is looking so precious!! She's such a sweetie-pie! Her (not really) half sister turns 4 in June, can you believe it!!?


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## Luna'sMom

Hey Jacqui, 

I know I can't believe Luna is 3 in June  Amazing how time flies! Luna doesn't seem to be settling down though - she still acts like a silly puppy when shes excited/around other dogs/people (at home shes a snuggle bunny). 

I'm going to take her in to get her glands looked at so I might as well have another go at getting them to look at her paws  

I'm seriously considering putting her on a raw diet - something like Dr Bruce's all natural which is a mix you mix with raw mince/meat. That or finding a grain free diet made of fish. 

Luna's been licking her paws for ever - she likes to lick things so its quite possibly a learned behavior, the staining is new and combined with the staining everywhere it's concerning. Her face is especially bad considering how white she used to be  

We are just heading up the road for a quick walkie (after the rain)!

Kylie


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## Harley & Dakotas Mum

I hope you can get to the bottom of it Kylie, and there is certainly no harm in switching to the raw diet, it sounds very healthy, so even if it doesn't eliminate the stains, at least she will be eating well!! Good luck!

ps: not that I think they will, BUT, if a vet ever suggests givng her Atopica - don't buy any, it is crazy expensive, and I have a box here that I can give you as Harley is no longer taking it (50 mg, expires Jan 2011)


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## biancasmom

you know what.. you might just want to be patient.. how old is your dog? here is the strangest thing that happened with Bianca (and i am knocking on wood right now hoping it stays this way) Bianca had the WORST tear staining..from a very small age she had dark rust colored stains and her face would smell sometimes...it started showing up anywhere she was licking (her feet, legs, etc) This past December/january she caught a bug at the groomer when she got her hair pretty much shaved off (way to short) and the vet put her on antibiotics (the pink kind that i think is a version of amoxicilin.) Ever since then her staining is not as bad.. i dont know if it was a combination of the haircut and the antibiotic.. but she is also almost 2 now and she might've just grown out of it.. i really hope so! she still has a little bit of staining but no where near what it was!!


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## littledog

I too feel your pain and anxiety. I have my pup on a home made diet which is easy to make and he loves it. I just brown some hamburger, add some brown rice and cooked carrotts. I give him 2 feedings a day of it - a couple tbls. each serving. One thing I have noticed is *stress causes him to tear* - a lot. If I go away and he fusses in his pen, he gets all wet. If someone comes over and I have to put him in the pen while they are here, he jumps and barks and gets all wet down to his feet. Usually this tearing doesn't stain but it is still annoying to be all wet. Also, the wet will cause that mold thing which stinks. I'm no expert, but is there something stressing like a new baby, another dog or cat or who knows what? Also, I am with the group, it could be allergies - but to what??? Good luck!


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## wooflife

I just noticed you said you recently moved from a 14th floor apt. to a house near a nature reserve. Did the licking and staining start before or after you moved?

My Havanese had similar issues when we lived in a temporary rental house for a while last year. I always hated that house the roof had a leak and the landlord wouldn't fix it. Turns out when he sold it - there was mold in the attic!!! Now, in our new house my havanese is happy as a clam no staining no excessive licking.


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## michik08

Hey Luna's mom,

I read your thread and am curious to know whether or not your little one has gotten better with her paws after changing her diet. My Biggie has been having paw issues for a long time and also has itchy (stinky) ears - I took him to the vet about the ears and they gave me some kind of ointment that didn't work; then some vinegary ear wash that also didn't work, then a third medication that didn't work either. He didn't even address the paw issue other than that it could potentially be from stress. I just correlated the two now - I give him roasted/poached chicken breast with steamed veggies usually; if he has dry, it's actually a chicken-based holistic food. I'm starting to really think it's the chicken, and here I am giving him nothing BUT chicken....poor thing


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## synigal

*Licking and Vomiting*

I have read the posts on excessive licking and also staining. I have only had toby for about 2 months and he is 3 years old so I don't really know his history since he was a rescue dog. I usually bathe him myself using a shampoo a great groomer uses on her maltese. Even before that he licks his paws all the time but more at night and recently has started vomiting in the mornings. It has only happened occasionally like maybe 4 times in 2 months and the vet said there is nothing wrong. I feed him wellness for small breed and am not sure about the chicken but will find out. Does or has anyone else had a vomiting with licking issue? please advise We love our toby and cannont understand how anyone could think he was too much trouble. He is a dream dog and ohhh so smart.


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## Nikki's Mom

It could also be an allergy or sensitivity to pesticides/herbicides used in your area, even if they are "holistic" products. Walking on and inhaling these chemicals daily can sometimes cause a reaction.


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## starry

Iam pretty sure the paw licking is secondary yeast infection. My Lhasa gets it every year, usually around summer.
The vet did a a swab between the toes (it started looking like a hoof) and confirmed it was a yeast infection after looking at it in their lab.
They put her on 2 weeks of zyrtec,and predisone (which is hardcore). 
Now she's done with her prescrips of it and cleared up.
Also soaking her foot in special shampoo. Sometimes I use antibacterial dial pump soap and swear it helps more!
Once in a while I would swab btwn the paws with peroxide (it doesn't sting).
I did go to a holistic organic food to. 
(I think the raw chicken necks would aggrievate any yeast or bacteria. Also my 1st maltese had horrible health probs bc of raw meats.)
The groomer said her ears were stained a lot, I noticed they get stinky fast, so every night (almost) I wipe them out with a wash rag. I rubbed and massage them as Im wiping them and she loves how it feels. So I jhave to wonder if it's allergies bc they must itch. I hope something here helps as I know your poor doggy is somewhat uncomfortable.
p.s. Also I give my lhasa benedryl if the itching starts up too much or interferes with her rest ( and mine).


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## synigal

*Licking and Organe Stain*

Hello Starry thank you for the info. I have switched my matlese's food to lamb and it does seem to be helping he is not staining as much or licking as much either and it has only been a week or so on the new food. on the allergy meds there are holistic meds for animals that are much better for them and not so toxic. i don't know where you live but vitaminshoppe.com has natural meds for animals and they are online to order also whole foods stores but they are really expensive. i buy all of my human herbs and vitamins from vitamin shoppe and have used them for over 20 years and recommend them highly. one other thing i did was when toby got groomed last time i had them trim the fur around his paws as short as possible and that seemed to help too. have a good day and be safe. :wub:


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## biancasmom

my vet told me anytime the dog is licking the paws it is allergies.. he told me to try washing her feet off everytime she goes outside.. the weird thing is i had really bad problems with tear staining from when i got her up until about 8 months ago. The only thing that changed is that she went on an antibiotic at the same time and then it cleared up.... so that might something too.


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## synigal

*Bianacas Mom*

Thank you my vet said he didnt want to use antibiotics unless it got really bad with coughing etc since the testing is really expensive and he doesnt prescribe antibiotics except for serious illnesses. Since I have taken him off all poultry food he is doing much better. it has only been a few weeks so hopefully the longer he is on the lamb food the better he will get. one other person told me there is a powder called angel eyes for this condition that you just put on a treat once a day but it is really expensive also so havent tried that yet. thank you all for welcoming me to this site so quickly. toby and i appreciate it immensely <3 :thumbsup:


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## tglasgow

Luna'sMom said:


> This could go in the health or the grooming section but seeing as I think it's health related and not just aesthetic... I decided on "health".
> 
> Luna is 2.5 years old now and after having very little trouble with staining (after teething) she has started staining everywhere... her feet, face, butt. I don't know quite what to do at the moment - the vet just shrugs if off with a "all white dogs stain".
> 
> She seems to have very itchy paws which she licks all the time (I try to discourage this but to no avail). I have noticed abit of a rash between her toes which I am sure is either caused by the licking or the reason why she licks. I have tried keeping the hair short in this area to increase air flow but it seems to make it worse. She also chews off her toe nails (or shortens them herself)...which makes them ragged but too short for me to cut and neaten up.
> 
> She has recently started licking her bottom ALOT which is gross and her hair is getting stained red/rust.
> 
> Her tear staining is heavy and she also has staining around her mouth.
> 
> She had her teeth cleaned in January this year - as her breath was getting stinky and I wanted to keep on top of it. It's getting stinky again + her teeth are getting 'dirty' again. I feel this might be related to her butt licking but am not sure. I don't brush her teeth as I haven't yet found a brush which works in her small mouth but was thinking of trying "petzlife gel"
> 
> I feed her Royal Canin (dental diet) and sometimes Artemis or Eagle Pack if I can get ahold of them. I supplement with raw chicken necks/wings but haven't seen any affect.
> 
> I have been thinking of changing her to a 'raw' diet but am abit leery. The vet did seem to think it could be allergies to pollen but it's no longer hay fever season and the staining has not stopped/improved at all. I don't think diet could be the sole reason as I had fed her Royal Canin before when she wasn't staining.
> 
> I don't really care about the staining except that I feel she is uncomfortable (all the licking) and that the staining is indicative of health issues...
> 
> Does anyone have some tips/ideas that I could use to try and help her out? I bring it up every time i see the vet (and I have tried 3 different vets) but they don't seem to be able to help her and I feel like I'm wasting money.
> 
> Poor little Luna - I've been exposing all her gross habits on the internet :HistericalSmiley:
> 
> For a comparison this is a recent photo and the one in my signature is from 1.5 years ago


It just isn't fair, is it? Such beautiful dogs.... then they get that awful orange all over.... My Lexi is now 11 and really started about 6 years ago when we got Tessa, who just passed in June to yet another liver failure.. SHE WAS WHITE AS SNOW, except the pretty apricot in her ears and tail. I was hoping Lexi would stop since we lost Tessa, but NOPE! it seems to be worse! The vet said the same, could be food, could be environmental, OR,,,, PSYCHOLOGICAL.... I tried the different prescription foods and OTC pure with no colors or additives, no grains.... nothing has worked. I DID recently hear somewhere that making them stand in epsom salt for a while should stop it.... I haven't tried yet. Poor beautiful Lexi has orange 'foo-foo', feet, arms, mouth and eyes.... Keep us posted!!


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## edelweiss

Dr. Dodds has a test to show what kind of allergies your pup may have which is excellent & well worth the $$ --google Hemopet & look at the tests. Your vet can work w/them to help you. I did this w/both dogs & was so surprised to see that Kitzel was off the charts on so many things---he doesn't exhibit symptoms---while Lisi (my allergic dog) was MUCH better on most.
Also, do an anal gland check first. We use Glandex to "boot the scoot" and it really does help.


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## zakhar18

I also heard that if a dog licks its paws, then this is an allergy. I studied and read so much before getting a dog. Fiona is already 8 months old, I love her very much, I have had her for 4 months already ..


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## tglasgow

She has been licking excessively about 6 years.... She licks all the way up to her armpits!!! they're orange!


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