# Sticky  Rosemary and seizures



## Cosy

I wanted to bring something to attention that had been brought up by another not long ago and was somewhat overlooked.
I think it was dwerten who mentioned Rosemary poisoning.
I had been caring for my older daughter's maltese, who, in the past six months had gradually been having little "spells" eventually progressing to grande mal seizures. It was horrid and the vet could find no reason, thus wanting to put her on phenobarbitol for epilepsy. I was so astounded as the dog had been perfectly healthy and now was at death's door with no energy and seizing several times a day (at the worst). When I read that article I remembered my daughter had put her on Eukanuba due to being on the go and unable to make it to the store that sells Canidae. As I recalled it was SHORTLY after that the "spells" began and escalated. I decided to check out the ingredients and sure enough there was the Rosemary. We stopped the feedings of it and within a week or so the seizures were all but gone, with another two weeks finding her seizure free. Her energy level returned and she was fine. I checked with the vet and she had not heard of Rosemary causing this, although that didn't mean it wasn't so. (I commend her for being honest). I found other articles on the net regarding the same. My guess is Rosemary may not cause it in all dogs as not all have a sensitivity to it and small dogs may need less of it to induce such symptoms. Rosemary and its extract are used as preservatives in some dog foods and snacks. 
Another friend of mine recently had a maltese that had a seizure. I asked if she had given her anything new to eat. She found the new snack she was giving contained Rosemary. I believe it was Newman's. Her bloodwork came back fine, just as my daughter's dog. She threw the snacks away and the dog has not had another seizure since. 
I just wanted to put this out there for reference, in case anyone runs into a similar problem.


----------



## 08chrissy08

Wow, I had not heard about this. Thank you for putting this up.


----------



## Harley & Dakotas Mum

Thanks Brit - always good to know this stuff! :thumbsup: Appreciate you taking the time to share it with us.

I'm glad your daughters little one is alright! How scary!!


----------



## Zoe and Bella's mom

Brit,

Thank you _so_ much for making us aware of this information!

ginny & zoe & bella


----------



## Ladysmom

Oh my goodness! Brit, you are absolutely right! The internet is full of information about rosemary causing seizures!

Thanks for the warning!


----------



## mom2bijou

Thank you Brit! These things are so important to know....and I'm so happy your daughter's pup is going to be ok!


----------



## k/c mom

Oh, gosh! I didn't know this. I'm so glad your daughter's Malt is OK now! I just checked my Castor & Pollux Organix food and thankfully it doesn't have Rosemary...


----------



## tamizami

Thanks for posting your experience with rosemary, Brit. I have been very interested in this and haven't found a lot of information. The canine epilepsy site seems to indicate that the herb rosemary is promising in treating epilepsy, while the extract or oil from rosemary is the harmful ingredient. I noticed that Eukanuba contains rosemary extract. 

http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/herbsforpet...#anchor31243852


----------



## Cosy

QUOTE (tamizami @ Nov 15 2008, 09:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=671360


> Thanks for posting your experience with rosemary, Brit. I have been very interested in this and haven't found a lot of information. The canine epilepsy site seems to indicate that the herb rosemary is promising in treating epilepsy, while the extract or oil from rosemary is the harmful ingredient. I noticed that Eukanuba contains rosemary extract.
> 
> http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/herbsforpet...#anchor31243852[/B]



Yes, it's the extract that's usually found in the dog foods. I should have made that more clear. However, I certainly wouldn't want to give my dog Rosemary in any form at this point. The extract was found in Eukanuba and Newman's treats.


----------



## CeeCee's Mom

That is important information to know. I use to give my dog newman's treats but she didn't like it and I threw them away.

Are you talking about Toy? .......or do you have more than one daughter? I just fell in love with that picture of Toy looking up and into the camera. What beautiful bright eyes and such an angelic face!!!!


----------



## dwerten

yep it was me as i am very strict with my dogs diet after dexter almost died of pancreatitis and one night i was lazy and bought a rotisserie chicken that was rosemary so it was real potent and when i tasted it all i could taste was rosemary. Demi had no health issues at all ever for 4 1/2 years and i always added organic baked chicken with her food so being lazy i added a few pieces of the rosemary chicken that night and 12 hrs later almost exactly demi came to me and put her legs on my knees as if to pick her up and she opened her mouth and i saw bile in back of mouth as if to throw up and i set her down to vomit and she fell on her side and went stiff. I freaked and picked her up and she stood stiff and would not move - it was scary and read up and that is a petit mal as grand mal they convulse and petit they go stiff. I knew it was the rosemary as i had read not to give rosemary to dogs prone to seizures but demi was healthy so did not think anything of it so i knew that caused her to act that way. Her food is newman's own organic and it has rosemary and she has never had any reaction like this before so i think the rosemary was so potent it triggered it. So two weeks later i used the petzlife gel and that has rosemary in it and 12 hrs later she started vomitting so we stopped that too. Still on the food but i think the amount is so minute it has not caused issues but i wanted to wait for dental to switch foods so I may be switching her to natural balance. Still investigating but if you check rosemary is in alot of treats and dog food  I believe it is a natural preservative is why. I was glad it occured before she went under anesthesia so i could warn them in doing propofol over ket/val. I am so glad my post helped in confirming this as that was my first post here as my friend who is on her and who referred me here wanted me to post here after it happened to demi but no one responded so i figured no one ever saw this occur in a maltese before. It was wild as demi has been totally healthy and blood work ok except her teeth issues


----------



## dwerten

here is some info on it 

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels...ealthy_diet.htm

http://www.the-puppy-dog-place.com/timberwolf-dog-food.html

http://www.gentlecarepet.com/whatis_seizures_epilepsy

http://thebarfblog-emily.blogspot.com/2008...s-epilepsy.html

this one brings up another point i have read on is turkey meat is not good to give dogs prone to seizures as i believe the triptofan (spelling?) in it triggers something with them - see below 

http://sheltie-hair.blogspot.com/2008/09/c...izure-faqs.html

I have even gone so far as to not use any shampoos or conditioners with lavender or rosemary in it as what is put on skin is absorbed into the body and blood therefore i will not take any chances with those two herbs 

I have also read to avoid grains in dogs with epilepsy as that can trigger the seizures 

I am on 55 dog groups and try to read alot after having 2 with health issues and now demi with the dental situation I have had to learn alot to be their best advocate


----------



## KAG

Thanks so much for the info, Brit.

Debbie, you're amazing!!
xoxoxoxo


----------



## bonniesmom

Thanks to Brit and Debbie for this valuable information! It's amazing what you can learn on SM.


----------



## KAG

Holy crap! Innova dry small bites has rosemary extract in it.


----------



## Cosy

QUOTE (dwerten @ Nov 15 2008, 10:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=671395


> yep it was me as i am very strict with my dogs diet after dexter almost died of pancreatitis and one night i was lazy and bought a rotisserie chicken that was rosemary so it was real potent and when i tasted it all i could taste was rosemary. Demi had no health issues at all ever for 4 1/2 years and i always added organic baked chicken with her food so being lazy i added a few pieces of the rosemary chicken that night and 12 hrs later almost exactly demi came to me and put her legs on my knees as if to pick her up and she opened her mouth and i saw bile in back of mouth as if to throw up and i set her down to vomit and she fell on her side and went stiff. I freaked and picked her up and she stood stiff and would not move - it was scary and read up and that is a petit mal as grand mal they convulse and petit they go stiff. I knew it was the rosemary as i had read not to give rosemary to dogs prone to seizures but demi was healthy so did not think anything of it so i knew that caused her to act that way. Her food is newman's own organic and it has rosemary and she has never had any reaction like this before so i think the rosemary was so potent it triggered it. So two weeks later i used the petzlife gel and that has rosemary in it and 12 hrs later she started vomitting so we stopped that too. Still on the food but i think the amount is so minute it has not caused issues but i wanted to wait for dental to switch foods so I may be switching her to natural balance. Still investigating but if you check rosemary is in alot of treats and dog food  I believe it is a natural preservative is why. I was glad it occured before she went under anesthesia so i could warn them in doing propofol over ket/val. I am so glad my post helped in confirming this as that was my first post here as my friend who is on her and who referred me here wanted me to post here after it happened to demi but no one responded so i figured no one ever saw this occur in a maltese before. It was wild as demi has been totally healthy and blood work ok except her teeth issues [/B]


I read it and was just too busy trying to help my daughter's maltese to respond, but as you see, I didn't forget! 
Thanks to you and your findings her little maltese is well and no sign of seizures.
I do remember reading dogs do not have to be epileptic to seize from the rosemary extract but can have a sensitivity to it. I wonder how many other herbs, foods, etc., could be causing such harm.


----------



## harrysmom

Thanks for posting this.... with Harry's medical issues, I have to be very aware of what he eats... so I
appreciate any and all food warnings.

Thanks,

Debbie


----------



## susie and sadie

Thank you so much for posting this information! I'd never heard of this.


----------



## jasmyne's mom

QUOTE (Susie and Sadie @ Nov 16 2008, 08:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=671559


> Thank you so much for posting this information! I'd never heard of this.[/B]



Me either. Thanks for posting this!


----------



## abbey

Brit~ Thanks for posting this! I am going to throw out the Eukanuba food I've been feeding Abbey. The store was out of Solid Gold Wee bites, so I picked this up. Abbey had a seizure in June & another in October. Abbey is very healthy, blood work checking out...etc. I'm not taking chances...so that food is going out in the garbage. Thanks again, Brit! :grouphug:


----------



## njdrake

With several of you experiencing seizures I have checked everything for rosemary. TG the food has no rosemary because Zoey's on a special diet for IBD. I did however have some treats with rosemary. Solid Gold Tiny Tots, California Natural Health Bars and Yummy Chummies. I hate this! I have to be so careful because of the IBD and Zoey is fine with these treats. I'm not taking any chances so out they go. I also just started them both on PetZlife Oral spray. I checked their site for a full list of ingredients and it has rosemary oil. That's a problem because I feel like I need to use something. This is disturbing because rosemary's in so many things. 
Thanks for posting and letting us know the dangers of rosemary.


----------



## Cosy

From all that I've read oil of rosemary is not toxic. It's the extract and perhaps the rosemary
itself. However, like you, I'd feel safer tossing it too.
Rosemary and it's extract is used for preserving and of course, rosemary flavors.


----------



## dwerten

I am so happy it helped your grand baby  I know i bought the book herbs for pets and read it in there. It is just so hard as everyone and every dog can react so different  my boy yorkie gets so sick on white potato foods and took a year to figure it out but now know white potato is inflammatory and not good for dogs with ibd - he has a food intolerance to it and gets backed up and vomits  I try to help where i can as I know how frustrating and scary it can be in dealing with a sick baby  I am so happy she is doing your daughters lil baby is better now 



I read it and was just too busy trying to help my daughter's maltese to respond, but as you see, I didn't forget! 
Thanks to you and your findings her little maltese is well and no sign of seizures.
I do remember reading dogs do not have to be epileptic to seize from the rosemary extract but can have a sensitivity to it. I wonder how many other herbs, foods, etc., could be causing such harm.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## dwerten

many dog foods do  newman's own organic has it but demi has never had an issue with food it was when i gave her the rotisserie chicken and the petzlife made her vomit after she had the reaction -- I am looking into another food as soon as urine and dental follow up is done. I am considering solid gold wee bits if anyone is familiar with that one -it does not have rosemary in it or natural balance fish and sweet potato as to the anti-inflammatory in fish diet. 


QUOTE (KAG @ Nov 16 2008, 02:57 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=671464


> Holy crap! Innova dry small bites has rosemary extract in it.[/B]


----------



## drclee

Now I'm freaking out because I feed J & J a mix of EVO red meat small bites and Nature's Variety Prairie and they both have Rosemary extract as the last ingredient. Should I stop feeding them these foods or if they've been ok, it's ok?


----------



## dwerten

I think if you have not seen seizure activity i would not worry as demi eats newmans own organic and has not had a seizure and it has rosemary in it but i am looking to switch her. It was only when she had that chicken and the petzlife and it says do not feed if your dog is prone to seizures so maybe yours will be ok but if you notice any seizure activity i would then stop it.


----------



## MissMelanie

:new_shocked: DARN it all! Ok there goes the Instinct Kibble... NO more of that.

And so odd, I got this emailed to me today about Seizures. And first person I thought was Carrie and the Mas Dude.

Hello Melanie,

Re: Seizuring and NO Mo**ney

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Hey fellow readers- a cheery Monday to you!

One emergency call that I had this weekend
was a dog seizuring.

His head and legs were rigid and extended.

He was paddling.

Lying on his side and unresponsive.

It had lasted a few minutes when 
his owner phoned.

----------------------
NO Mon**ey
----------------------

They wanted to KNOW if there was
anything they could do at home.

They didn't have much mon**ey.

First I would NEVER refuse an emergency 
client like this- and I let them know
that.

Then I recalled the Acupressure Interview
I had with Dr Michael Lines.

He had seen a seizuring person treated
in a restaurant with a specific point.

So I gave the specifics to the owner.

At the base of your pets nose-right below
the nostrils, there is a very responsive
acupressure point.

I had them hold their middle finger over
that point - with moderate pressure- for
1 minute.

---------------------------
Then what happened?
---------------------------

He STOPPED seizuring.

WOW....

Did the Acupressure do this?

PERHAPS

Many seizures do just stop on their
own.

BUT it was a pretty impressive cause and 
effect.

The name of the point?

GV 26

It is also used in CPR- for years I have
used this area to get dogs and cats to start
breathing- especially when they are first under
anesthetic.

I never imagined that it was an Acupressure
point.

I am all jazzed about this Acupressure stuff-
I really feel that it can help MANY ill dogs
and cats- and it has NO side effects.

To hear my Interview with Dr Lines, and to
get a video of me demonstrating acupressure 
points go here:

http://www.theonlinevet.com


----------



## ddsumm

*Flipping heck!! I never heard of this. Chloe LOVED BBQ chicken from chicken treat and they smoother things with rosemary!! Mind you we didn't give her the stuffing. But still ....


Thanks for letting us know about this. Will make sure that things dont have rosemary extract.


I'm so glad your daughter's baby is ok now and dwerten's baby too*.


*Hugs and missing tail wags*

*Dede and (waiting for Katie) from 'under down under' and precious memories of the little sausage


*


----------



## Ladysmom

I just did a little research and Merrick foods are full of rosemary! :OMG!:


----------



## LJSquishy

Natural Balance Potato & Duck Small Bites also has Rosemary Extract in it. I was going to switch London to this because so many SM members have had good experiences with it...but now I'm not so sure... :huh:


----------



## LJSquishy

Or...it might have Rosemary Extract in it; Petco's website says it contains Rosemary Extract, but the Natural Balance website doesn't list that as an ingredient...so check the individual package.


----------



## PuttiePie

Maybe this thread should be pinned? I think this is great info. Brit, do you know if Leba has rosemary in it? I think that was adding to Posie's tummy trouble. LJSquishy, try the venison and potato instead of the duck, we are doing great on it now..


----------



## LJSquishy

QUOTE (PuttiePie @ Nov 24 2008, 09:41 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=676737


> Maybe this thread should be pinned? I think this is great info. Brit, do you know if Leba has rosemary in it? I think that was adding to Posie's tummy trouble. LJSquishy, try the venison and potato instead of the duck, we are doing great on it now..[/B]


I think I will try either the Sweet Potato & Venison or the Sweet Potato & Fish. I think those two are safe from the rosemary extract. I will still check the bag before purchasing to be sure.


----------



## Cosy

QUOTE (PuttiePie @ Nov 24 2008, 11:41 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=676737


> Maybe this thread should be pinned? I think this is great info. Brit, do you know if Leba has rosemary in it? I think that was adding to Posie's tummy trouble. LJSquishy, try the venison and potato instead of the duck, we are doing great on it now..[/B]



No, Leba III doesn't have rosemary, but it does have other flower extracts in very minute amounts. I've given Leba for years with no ill effects so I wouldn't want to add them to the list. I researched their ingredients thoroughly before beginning a regimen.


----------



## dwerten

not to mention merrick food is manufactured on the same land as a rendering plant and the owner keeps lobbying to put rendering parts into dog food  so i will not feed that food to mine for that reason - google it -- the book foods pets die for explains alot about rendering plants, etc. and that is an excellent book 

debw 


QUOTE (LadysMom @ Nov 23 2008, 07:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=676169


> I just did a little research and Merrick foods are full of rosemary! :OMG!:[/B]


----------



## kathym

WOW I HAVE BEEN FEEDING BACI THE DRY GRAMMY'S POT PIE . I DON'T SEE ANY ROSEMARY IN IT ,IS IT THE CANNED FOOD ? I'M SO UPSET I NEVER HEARD OF RENDERING PLANTS. I JUST STARTED READING THE ARTICLES AND FEEL SICK.CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHERE IT SAYS THAT MERRICK HAS THERE PLANT ON A RENDERING PLANT.


----------



## beckinwolf

According to the book, "Food Pets Die For", Merrick's doesn't just have a rendering plant on their property, they actually OWN the rendering plant. It's a great book, a little scary too.


----------



## dwerten

yep they own the pet food manufacturing plant and the rendering plant and he is lobbying for it to be put in dog food sooo my take is it is already being done as easy access 


QUOTE (beckinwolf @ Nov 25 2008, 12:31 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=677372


> According to the book, "Food Pets Die For", Merrick's doesn't just have a rendering plant on their property, they actually OWN the rendering plant. It's a great book, a little scary too.[/B]


----------



## Ladysmom

Garth Merrick, CEO of Merrick Pet Care, owns a rendering plant which is located in Hereford, Texas. It is called Nutri-Feeds, Inc. Garth Merrick is listed as the president on this enforcement report where Nutri-Feeds was cited for violations (odor). Look on the bottom of the first page under contacts and mailing lists.

http://www7.tceq.state.tx.us/uploads/eagen...008/1838AIR.pdf

It's also listed here:

http://nationalrenderers.org/biosecurity/s...la/appi_members


----------



## tamizami

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Nov 25 2008, 09:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=677712


> Garth Merrick, CEO of Merrick Pet Care, owns a rendering plant which is located in Hereford, Texas. It is called Nutri-Feeds, Inc. Garth Merrick is listed as the president on this enforcement report where Nutri-Feeds was cited for violations (odor). Look on the bottom of the first page under contacts and mailing lists.
> 
> http://www7.tceq.state.tx.us/uploads/eagen...008/1838AIR.pdf
> 
> It's also listed here:
> 
> http://nationalrenderers.org/biosecurity/s...la/appi_members[/B]


Mr. W. Billy Slaughter???? I don't know whether to laugh or cry! I'm so glad to home cook and supplement with Orijen and Pinnacle...*fingers crossed about them*


----------



## Ladysmom

QUOTE (tamizami @ Nov 26 2008, 12:05 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=677713


> QUOTE (LadysMom @ Nov 25 2008, 09:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=677712





> Garth Merrick, CEO of Merrick Pet Care, owns a rendering plant which is located in Hereford, Texas. It is called Nutri-Feeds, Inc. Garth Merrick is listed as the president on this enforcement report where Nutri-Feeds was cited for violations (odor). Look on the bottom of the first page under contacts and mailing lists.
> 
> http://www7.tceq.state.tx.us/uploads/eagen...008/1838AIR.pdf
> 
> It's also listed here:
> 
> http://nationalrenderers.org/biosecurity/s...la/appi_members[/B]


Mr. W. Billy _*Slaughter*_ ???? I don't know whether to laugh or cry! I'm so glad to home cook and supplement with Orijen and Pinnacle...*fingers crossed about them*
[/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, really! W. Billy Slaughter???????????

I only homecook for Lady now, too. After three bouts with HGE recently, it turns out her pancreas isn't making the enzymes necessary to digest her food so I had no choice. I am so glad I did! Not only is she thriving, I really don't trust any commercial dog food anymore. I used to swear by Natures Vareity, but apparently their canned foods are made by Menu Foods.


----------



## kathym

WOW! I HAVE BEEN MIXING THE HOME COOKED CHICKEN/RICE/VEGGIES TO THE MERRICK DRY FOOD.
DOES ANYONE HAVE A RECIPE TO MAKE HOMEMADE DRY FOOD ?THIS IS SO UPSETTING THINKING I HAVE BEEN GIVING WHAT I THOUGHT WAS THE BEST FOOD FOR MY BABY, JUST TO FIND THIS OUT I WOULD RATHER JUST FEED HIM ALL HOME MADE AND CALL IT A DAY.


----------



## dwerten

thanks i was trying to find where i read this all - i know a yorkie on one of my yorkie groups died as he had a large tumor in his stomache and it was cancer at a young age and all she fed was merrick  i tried to tell her this info but she was not listening and she has a couple more yorkies so i backed off but it broke my heart. 

deb w


QUOTE (LadysMom @ Nov 26 2008, 01:02 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=677712


> Garth Merrick, CEO of Merrick Pet Care, owns a rendering plant which is located in Hereford, Texas. It is called Nutri-Feeds, Inc. Garth Merrick is listed as the president on this enforcement report where Nutri-Feeds was cited for violations (odor). Look on the bottom of the first page under contacts and mailing lists.
> 
> http://www7.tceq.state.tx.us/uploads/eagen...008/1838AIR.pdf
> 
> It's also listed here:
> 
> http://nationalrenderers.org/biosecurity/s...la/appi_members[/B]


----------



## Ladysmom

I found all that by Googling. There is a lot more information about it out there.


----------



## tamizami

QUOTE (kathym @ Nov 26 2008, 07:27 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=677799


> WOW! I HAVE BEEN MIXING THE HOME COOKED CHICKEN/RICE/VEGGIES TO THE MERRICK DRY FOOD.
> DOES ANYONE HAVE A RECIPE TO MAKE HOMEMADE DRY FOOD ?THIS IS SO UPSETTING THINKING I HAVE BEEN GIVING WHAT I THOUGHT WAS THE BEST FOOD FOR MY BABY, JUST TO FIND THIS OUT I WOULD RATHER JUST FEED HIM ALL HOME MADE AND CALL IT A DAY.[/B]


I think its best to consult with a vet who also specializes in nutrition. You have a few choices: 

1. search for a holistic vet with clinical nutrition here: http://www.ahvma.org/
2. use the UC Davis site here for recipes: http://www.balanceit.com/
3. contact a vet who specializes in analyzing bloodwork and developing homecooked recipe and supplements. Dr. Conrad Kruesi in Vermont does phone consultations: http://www.crvetcenter.com/
4. purchase Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats - they are complete and balanced recipes, and work as well with cooked meat as raw meat 

Hope that helps you get started!


----------



## dwerten

there are some great yahoogroups for nutrition too -

[email protected], [email protected], and a few more i will post when i get home


----------



## Furbaby's Mommie

Almost every premium and organic dry dogfood I've looked at has Rosemary of some sort. The first one I noticed is Honest Kitchen mixes. Heavy rosemary.

Anyone have a list of otherwise great foods without it?


----------



## k/c mom

Dee, we use Castor & Pollux Organix. K & C love it. It doesn't appear to have rosemary:

http://www.castorandpolluxpet.com/store/or..._canine_formula
*Ingredients:* Organic Chicken, Chicken Meal, Organic Peas, Organic Barley, Organic Brown Rice, Organic Oats, Chicken Fat preserved with Mixed Tochopherols (form of Vitamin E), Salmon Meal, Organic Whole Flaxseed, Natural Chicken Liver Flavor, Dicalcium Phosphate, Dried Whole Egg, Potassium Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Proteinate, Calcium Iodate), Choline Chloride, Organic Carrots, Organic Apples, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin B12 Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Yeast Culture (Sacccharomyces Cerevisiae), Dried Enterococcus Faecum Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longbrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract and Fermentation Solubles, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate.


----------



## BrookeB676

QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Dec 16 2008, 02:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=690475


> Almost every premium and organic dry dogfood I've looked at has Rosemary of some sort. The first one I noticed is Honest Kitchen mixes. Heavy rosemary.
> 
> Anyone have a list of otherwise great foods without it?[/B]


Hey Dee, I think I am going to switch mine to Wellness fish formula (or the duck) havent decided. Neither have rosemary. I found out their Wysong has the rosemary in it so I guess it's worth switching if they will eat something else. Although I think if you search hard enough, you can find something wrong with all foods.


----------



## Furbaby's Mommie

QUOTE (BrookeB676 @ Dec 16 2008, 07:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=690687


> Although I think if you search hard enough, you can find something wrong with all foods.[/B]


Boy isn't that the truth! B) 

I tried Wellness fish & sweet potato and Shoni would not even taste it. He really likes the Karma he is eating now, and I don't smell Rosemary. There couldn't be much in it.


----------



## sadiesmom

I have been pleased with Natures Balance so far but no I am wondering...I used to have a dog that had grande maul seizures and it was TERRIBLE..I don't want this with Sadie


----------



## ssaaii

Yea. Innova and Evo food both contain Rosemary Extract. :shocked: I have been feeding Milly Innova Puppy food...and now I'm thinking about switching her food. 

I'm looking at Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance but not sure which should I get (Ultra Premium? Potato & Duck? Sweet Potato & Fish?) 

Any suggestion...?


----------



## PearlsPaws

Fromm's Four Star Nutritionals doesn't have any rosemary - the primary reason why I switched from Canidae to Fromm's. We love it.


----------



## lottapaws

I did so much research trying to find the 'right' food for our babies (and something they would actually eat). I thought I had hit gold with canned Blue Buffalo Chicken Dinner and Merrick's Puppy Plate dry food. I JUST bought a new bag of Merrick's, but my girls will not be eating it, that is for certain! 

I had mainly researched the ingredients of the products and would go to the companies' websites to 'get a feel' of the company. Sadly, I was not nearly thorough enough! I am kicking myself, I can't believe I've been feeding my babies this family's garbage. Thank you sooooo much for passing along this information!! (And I really liked the ingredients list on the Puppy Plate, I thought I was such a good mommy for having found such a "good" dry food they liked. :smilie_tischkante: ) I think I'll call Merrick's today and have a little "chat" with them. 

I also feed canned Blue Buffalo Chicken Dinner. I'd sure appreciate any comments on this company/food?


----------



## rdb911

Thanks for that info! I will check my dog food label too


----------



## almitra

Does Fur Butter have Rosemary in it? Happytails Spa (the manufacturer) says it uses Rosemary for "scenting" their product. Of course, we don't know how much of it would be absorbed into the dog's system via the periphery anyhow, so topical Rosemary may not be at issue. Just wonderin'...... :confused1:


----------



## silverhaven

Arggggg! I have just changed Cherry Lola to Orijen 6 fish and it say it has rosemary and rosemary extract in it.


----------



## tamizami

My understanding is that rosemary _oil_ is only an issue in a dog that is already prone to seizures, whereas rosemary the herb is not. If your dog doesn't have seizures, the small amounts of rosemary in some foods as a natural preservative will not harm your dogs.

Here is a link to an article:
http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/herbsforpets.html

All this being said, if I had a dog that had seizures, I would avoid all rosemary for the time being.


----------



## Cosy

I believe rosemary extract is a concentrated form too. I do know and saw firsthand a dog have seizures daily
due to the rosemary in Eukanuba. Once the food was removed the dog's seizures subsided within a week.
She's never had a seizure since. This was a year ago. I also know of another dog eating a treat with rosemary
extract and dropping in a seizure after. The treats were thrown away and no more seizures.

Whether a dog is epilieptic doesn't seem to be the issue with rosemary. I wouldn't knowingly feed it to my dog.


----------



## tamizami

QUOTE (Cosy @ Nov 11 2009, 11:13 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850002


> I believe rosemary extract is a concentrated form too. I do know and saw firsthand a dog have seizures daily
> due to the rosemary in Eukanuba. Once the food was removed the dog's seizures subsided within a week.
> She's never had a seizure since. This was a year ago. I also know of another dog eating a treat with rosemary
> extract and dropping in a seizure after. The treats were thrown away and no more seizures.
> 
> Whether a dog is epilieptic doesn't seem to be the issue with rosemary. I wouldn't knowingly feed it to my dog.[/B]


I agree that rosemary extract is as strong and concentrated as rosemary oil, or rosemary powder.


----------



## Tiger's Mom

QUOTE (Cosy @ Nov 15 2008, 08:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=671279


> I wanted to bring something to attention that had been brought up by another not long ago and was somewhat overlooked.
> I think it was dwerten who mentioned Rosemary poisoning.
> I had been caring for my older daughter's maltese, who, in the past six months had gradually been having little "spells" eventually progressing to grande mal seizures. It was horrid and the vet could find no reason, thus wanting to put her on phenobarbitol for epilepsy. I was so astounded as the dog had been perfectly healthy and now was at death's door with no energy and seizing several times a day (at the worst). When I read that article I remembered my daughter had put her on Eukanuba due to being on the go and unable to make it to the store that sells Canidae. As I recalled it was SHORTLY after that the "spells" began and escalated. I decided to check out the ingredients and sure enough there was the Rosemary. We stopped the feedings of it and within a week or so the seizures were all but gone, with another two weeks finding her seizure free. Her energy level returned and she was fine. I checked with the vet and she had not heard of Rosemary causing this, although that didn't mean it wasn't so. (I commend her for being honest). I found other articles on the net regarding the same. My guess is Rosemary may not cause it in all dogs as not all have a sensitivity to it and small dogs may need less of it to induce such symptoms. Rosemary and its extract are used as preservatives in some dog foods and snacks.
> Another friend of mine recently had a maltese that had a seizure. I asked if she had given her anything new to eat. She found the new snack she was giving contained Rosemary. I believe it was Newman's. Her bloodwork came back fine, just as my daughter's dog. She threw the snacks away and the dog has not had another seizure since.
> I just wanted to put this out there for reference, in case anyone runs into a similar problem.[/B]



thank you so much for sharing this with us . . .even if it was not confirmed, it puts us all on awareness . .I would not even risk it and avoid it completely after reading your posting. :wub:


----------



## Maltese&LabMommy

WOW, THANK YOU for this post! My baby just had a seizure last night =( After reading this, I rembered I gave her two of the snacks w/ rosemary extract in them! I am in shock right now, but THANK you again!!!!! The snacks are in the trash as we speak!


----------



## Ladysmom

Maltese&LabMommy said:


> WOW, THANK YOU for this post! My baby just had a seizure last night =( After reading this, I rembered I gave her two of the snacks w/ rosemary extract in them! I am in shock right now, but THANK you again!!!!! The snacks are in the trash as we speak!


As I posted in your other thread, large amounts of rosemary can trigger a seizure in dogs with a low seizure threshold (epileptics). The small amount in food or treats will not cause a seizure in a healthy dog.


----------



## Rocky's Mom

Thanks Brit...I'm glad I found this out beforehand...one more thing to remember, LOL.


----------



## Cosy

Actually stomach upsets from a poisoning factor as well as some herbs (such as rosemary) can be toxic and affect the nervous system. The dog does not have to be epileptic to have a seizure, just as a dog with low blood sugar levels can have a seizure without being epileptic.


----------



## Dogwriter

I wanted to share my similar story. Piper had a seizure this past Monday a.m. I was ready to take her to the vet for shots, so I grabbed her and went...10 min tops to get there. Vet wasn't sure why she had it, said just start documenting them.

When I got home, I saw this thread and read it out loud to my husband, who said OH she was chewing on the rosemary plant yesterday, I almost called you to come and see.

So. HOpefully no more seizures! We went back to the vet for the shots yesterday, and they were appreciative that I mentioned it. Seems like they hadn't really heard of it before.


----------



## Cosy

I hope no more seizures for her too. Please let us know how she does. No more rosemary for her!


----------



## maltlovereileen

Cosy said:


> I wanted to bring something to attention that had been brought up by another not long ago and was somewhat overlooked.
> I think it was dwerten who mentioned Rosemary poisoning.
> I had been caring for my older daughter's maltese, who, in the past six months had gradually been having little "spells" eventually progressing to grande mal seizures. It was horrid and the vet could find no reason, thus wanting to put her on phenobarbitol for epilepsy. I was so astounded as the dog had been perfectly healthy and now was at death's door with no energy and seizing several times a day (at the worst). When I read that article I remembered my daughter had put her on Eukanuba due to being on the go and unable to make it to the store that sells Canidae. As I recalled it was SHORTLY after that the "spells" began and escalated. I decided to check out the ingredients and sure enough there was the Rosemary. We stopped the feedings of it and within a week or so the seizures were all but gone, with another two weeks finding her seizure free. Her energy level returned and she was fine. I checked with the vet and she had not heard of Rosemary causing this, although that didn't mean it wasn't so. (I commend her for being honest). I found other articles on the net regarding the same. My guess is Rosemary may not cause it in all dogs as not all have a sensitivity to it and small dogs may need less of it to induce such symptoms. Rosemary and its extract are used as preservatives in some dog foods and snacks.
> Another friend of mine recently had a maltese that had a seizure. I asked if she had given her anything new to eat. She found the new snack she was giving contained Rosemary. I believe it was Newman's. Her bloodwork came back fine, just as my daughter's dog. She threw the snacks away and the dog has not had another seizure since.
> I just wanted to put this out there for reference, in case anyone runs into a similar problem.


HOLY COW!!!!!:blink: Thank you for sharing the story, alerting us...and so glad her dog is now fine (that cutie pie pic you posted?)... how scary!!! Thank heavens you thought of that/checked!!!! :thumbsup::aktion033:


----------



## dwerten

Dogwriter said:


> I wanted to share my similar story. Piper had a seizure this past Monday a.m. I was ready to take her to the vet for shots, so I grabbed her and went...10 min tops to get there. Vet wasn't sure why she had it, said just start documenting them.
> 
> When I got home, I saw this thread and read it out loud to my husband, who said OH she was chewing on the rosemary plant yesterday, I almost called you to come and see.
> 
> So. HOpefully no more seizures! We went back to the vet for the shots yesterday, and they were appreciative that I mentioned it. Seems like they hadn't really heard of it before.


I would remove the rosemary plant  My demi had this same thing happen which is why I posted and it occurred 12 hrs after she ate some rosemary rotisserie chicken i screwed up and gave her and she does not have epilepsy. She has not had one since. 

I think many use rosemary to keep rabbits out of their yards. Is this true?


----------



## furevermy2luvs

Thanks so much for drawing this to our attention. I just checked a bad of Iams that I have that Buddy was not too fond of and sure enough the last ingredient listed is Rosemary Extract! Why would they put that in dog food knowing that it could possibly cause seizures? I will definitely be reading ingredients on everything I give him from now on. I quit giving him rawhide chews because I read that they have arsenic in them! And I was always concerned he would get choked on them, never knowing they could poison him!!! There needs to be more regulations on pet foods. We wouldn't give our children things that would poison them so why would we want to give our animals something that would cause harm?


----------



## scrappydoo

*My Dog had a Seizure today*

Hey everyone. I am a concerned mom, my dog, Scrappy is 2 1/2 years old and had his first seizure today and hopefully the last. I was totally freaked out and did not know what to do. After searching the internet, it brought me here and I started reading about rosemary and other signs of seizures. So I looked at his dog food...and his treats..and no rosemary extract. But I did rush him to the vet today minutes after it happened..and she said that he has epilepsy..and I dont believe her..even though she is a reliable vet..it just does not make sense. Scrappy has never had "earlier signs" or anything of that sort. Let me explained what happened, and maybe someone out there can help me out:

I was watching tv, and I heard a loud thump..so I turned around looking to see what it was, and being that my dog is clumsy, I called his name and he came over to me but not normal at all, head slumped down, slow movement almost a drunk state..could barely walk...(he has fallen before and hit his head and has walked like this before but never "quite" this dramatic) so I sat down next to him and told him it was okay and then he just jerked away from so quickly and tried to run away from me...as he did this he lost the ability to use his back legs and then fell and then within seconds..started seizuring..rolling on his back and stomach over and over again so quickly..he didnt freeze up, he didnt shake...he just spun literally over and over..and then he pooped while doing this..which is a clear sign of a seizure...and then he got up and went into the kitchen..like nothing happened....freaked out I rushed him to the vet..and they do a full blood test and everything came back negative..and then she tells me he has epilepsy..I am not sure if I can sleep tonight..Im scared of another seizure...I am pretty sure it was from him falling on his head even tho I did not see it..I defintely heard it. Someone please calm my nerves....


----------



## edelweiss

Brittney, firstly take a deep, deep breath & try to keep calm.
Probably, just probably Scrappy had a seizure before---it sounds like it from what you said that he "has fallen before." All seizures are not necessarily the same. I have experienced many in my 39 yrs. w/maltese---all of them are scary for sure! 
If you don't believe the vet, do please take him to another vet w/your medical tests/records for a second opinion. Make notes of everything time/dates/foods/etc. so you can maybe find a pattern. This will really help the vet.
Have you changed foods? any new supplements---think carefully as anything can trigger a seizure.
Praying for little Scrappy and wisdom to know how to move forward! Hugs


----------



## dwerten

since you heard a loud thump my thoughts would be he hit his head and had a seizure from that. They can have seizures if they fall on their head. Since it was immediately after that then I would think it was related to the fall. I would keep an eye on him and take good notes. Time of seizures and how long and keep a notebook on this. The meds are strong so usually they do not want to put on meds unless it is rolling seizures which are back to back seizures or they are happening a week a part. Occassional seizure i would not put on meds for nor would most vets recommend - it is just if it is happening alot.


----------



## DUGGABOY

How is Scrappy doing today and did you ever find out what the problem was? I have a 5yr old who has had 2 seizures 3 months apart and I found out most dog foods have Rosemary in them. I have eliminated Rosemary and have put her on a supplement from NuVet called NuVet Plus. It is not from a vet and is all natural. You should look into this because she is doing great. Why does the majority of Maltese owners on this feed Candea when it contains Rosemary? Good luck


----------



## dwerten

someone just posted this on another group so thought i would add to this thread 

*Rosemary Extract = Pet Food Neurotoxin







*

*Does your new “natural” cat or dog food contain herbs such as rosemary* *extract, a neurotoxin that can cause neurological problems, seizures and anemia?*
When Veterinarians reported that Premium Edge caused neurological problems in cats, testing found that one batch lacked Vitamin B1(thiamine) but the real culprit in cat and dog foods may be rosemary extract, a natural neurotoxin. Adverse reactions, including seizures, can show up soon after ingestion but symptoms may also be delayed which complicates accurate diagnosis
Nel Liquorman, Health Editor © TheDogPress 03/12/10 There is growing concern since pet food companies began adding rosemary extracts. Very few veterinarians are aware that rosemary or other herbs present a danger. Many vets don’t even realize that herbs have become a popular pet food ingredient. When changes are made to existing recipes, new ingredients are simply added to the label listing.
According to Mombu.com/medicine, "ROSEMARY EXTRACT: Flavoring. PAE: illness. An ounce can cause death" (PAE indicates potential adverse affects). We already know that rosemary extract


----------



## dwerten

here is the link

*http://www.thedogpress.com/DogFood/Rosemary-Neurotoxin-10032_Liquorman.asp*


----------



## dwerten

another link 

Merrick - Herbal Extracts and Neurological Problems?


----------



## lilygirl

dwerten said:


> here is some info on it
> 
> http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels...ealthy_diet.htm
> 
> Timberwolf Dog Food
> 
> Natural Pet Health Info: Seizures & Epilepsy in Dog, Cat & Pets
> 
> http://thebarfblog-emily.blogspot.com/2008...s-epilepsy.html
> 
> this one brings up another point i have read on is turkey meat is not good to give dogs prone to seizures as i believe the triptofan (spelling?) in it triggers something with them - see below
> 
> http://sheltie-hair.blogspot.com/2008/09/c...izure-faqs.html
> 
> I have even gone so far as to not use any shampoos or conditioners with lavender or rosemary in it as what is put on skin is absorbed into the body and blood therefore i will not take any chances with those two herbs
> 
> I have also read to avoid grains in dogs with epilepsy as that can trigger the seizures
> 
> I am on 55 dog groups and try to read alot after having 2 with health issues and now demi with the dental situation I have had to learn alot to be their best advocate


OMG! my lavender patch will be RIPPED out as soon as I get home! I have avoided rosemary since having malts altho I love the way it makes my yard smell. Lily had a very lethargic issue at around 6 months after tromping through the lavender field! We could not figure out what was wrong and it never happened again. This would explain what happened. Thanks so much for the information! i will have to check all her grooming products.


----------



## zooeysmom

Thank you for bumping up this post, lilygirl. My sister's rescued Chihuahua has been having terrible seizures, for which she is being treated with two meds. I'm going to send her this info to make sure Lilah is not getting any food or treats with rosemary extract.


----------



## rtrevino03

*Seizures*

I have two Maltese's. I feed them only organic food with enzymes and probiotics and never buy treats made from China. 

2 days ago I bought Jerky Bars by Dogswell. They are apparently made in the USA. When I got home I gave my dogs these treats-- I noticed my female dog didnt eat it but my male dog did. In a matter of maybe 10 to 15 mins my dog went into a seizure. My dogs are both 7 yrs of age and pretty healthy...no seizure ever. I dont have them on any flea medication or anything toxic that may have caused this. 

I ran to emergency and they said they didnt know what it was and after running blood work everything came out normal. They started him on a small dose of Potassium Bromide without asking me and now they want me to administer to him on a daily basis. I really dont want my dog on harmful drugs. I was suppossed to give him medication at home for the first time tonight before bed... but I am not feeling comfortable with this... especially after him panting througout the night last night and having anxious behaviour with drooling. This being one of the possible reactions to the medication. I just went on line and ordered a natural alternative with great reviews- Ease Sure by Pet Alive. 

*Has anyone experienced this with these treats?* I did find online that Dogswell Happy Hips have had issues with dogs getting seizures. That priduct is made in China. I also found online that Rosemary extract can also cause seizures ---which is an ingredient in Jerky Bars.

Any advise?


----------



## Snowbody

I bought Dogswell years ago thinking it was very healthy looking at the packaging and then saw it was made in China. :angry: I threw away the bags and have steered clear. I think I've seen some Dogswell that says USA but didn't look further to see if the chicken or ingredients were sourced somewhere else. I just don't trust them. There was just an investigative video about treats from China and I think the use of glycerin that can be tainted. I only give my dog jerky made by Kona Chips and also Aunt Jeni's Home Made, both sourced and manufactured in the US and no other ingredient. You might want to report the reaction to the Dogswell Jerky-- think you can do that to the FDA. Could be the rosemary but many companies use that as a preservative.


----------

