# Divine Has a 7 Month Old Boy!



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Deleted.


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

He is adorable!! 

Marj, I just wanted to say HOW GREAT IT IS to see you "back in print"


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

He certainly is a pretty boy.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Whoops!

I just got a very kind email from a fellow SM'er that this type of posting isn't allowed anymore. I've asked Joe to remove this thread.

Sorry about that. I'm still in a time warp after being gone for 3 months!


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> Whoops!
> 
> I just got a very kind email from a fellow SM'er that this type of posting isn't allowed anymore. I've asked Joe to remove this thread.
> 
> Sorry about that. I'm still in a time warp after being gone for 3 months![/B]


Marj ~ I believe it's okay to post links. Just not okay to come on this site to sell.

I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I went ahead and deleted it anyway. I want to abide by the rules!


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

I haven't been on in a while either so I would like to brush up on the rules myself. Does anyone know if they are posted anywhere?


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

I thought it would be OK to provide a link, your just pointing people in the right direction









It's not as if your selling the pup Marj, so i would think it would be OK.

It's nice to see what breeders have available, it's kinda like window shopping!

Can anybody clarify this please!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I know in the Breeder's section there is a pinned rule about no direct sales of animals. I pm'd Joe with my apologies and asked him to take the whole thread down. I'm sure when he gets it and reads this thread he'll clarify SM's policy.

I figured I'd rather be safe than sorry and take it down.


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## Gregswife (Mar 6, 2006)

There have been a couple of members here who added a new pup to their family from a link that was posted here. I hope it is okay, because I always enjoy clicking on the links and looking at the available pups. I could get myself in trouble though because everytime I look at one, I think "what difference would one more make?".


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> I know in the Breeder's section there is a pinned rule about no direct sales of animals.[/B]


it is ok to post if a breeder has a pup available, it is NOT ok to sell pups as a breeder, it is NOT ok to directly sell any animal on the forum, it is NOT ok to sell pups/animals for someone else, if you are associated with a breeder (friend, relative, employee) I ask that you NOT post pups for sale for that breeder


why? you may ask

I want this to be a place for discussion and if the above were to be allowed it would turn into more of a place to buy or sell pups, I really dont want that


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=220886
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> 
> 
> ...



I agree Joe! Good call! Thanks for clarifying.


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

Thanks for clearing that up Joe.

Marj, put your link back on girl so i can see this adorable pup.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

Why just *NOT* allow the advertising of *any* pups on the forum? This makes the rule so much more simple. I think it is too hard to tell if someone is truly _associated_ with a breeder or not. If you puchased a pup from someone, does this mean that you are associated with them? Will it be unacceptable if you find out they have a litter and you post a thread about it.

What is the difference between posting about a pup for another breeder whether or not you know them? I mean .. we don't get commission or anything. At least I never do even though others have joked that I should.

If I was to have a litter, am I allowed to discuss the progress of the litter of pups? Is this then not a form of advertising for yourself?

I think it is acceptable for people to recommend breeders through PM if someone is asking for recommendations. I think it is ok to provide feedback on breeders when asked.

I personally need some criteria for defining _associated_ beyond friend, family or employee.

Sorry - just my two cents. I feel you are doing an amazing job Joe but I wanted to voice my opinion on this topic.

PS: I am not trying to start trouble. I think this is a wonderful forum and I thank Joe for making it such a great place. I just want to understand this rule better. I honestly post available pups to help the community. I don't post it to help the breeder make a sale because Maltese pups go fast. I just want to make sure our community benefits by getting good Maltese at good prices (if available).


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

Yes, I might need some clarification too. I mentioned on another post that Tammy at Ta-Jon had some boys that were available. I maybe shouldn't have done that. I wouldn't want to do anything illiegal. 

I kind of like people posting when pups are available because I love looking at the links. I wouldn't want this to become a big puppy selling forum but I enjoy seeing pups from reputable breeders.......I might want another one soon if Sadie is going to keep on being a big slug. Hope needs a maltese that will PLAY!

PS. I didn't read the last couple of posts. I think, from what you've said Joe, that it was OK that I mentioned that Tammy has pups for sale. If I did anything wrong please let me know.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> Yes, I might need some clarification too. I mentioned on another post that Tammy at Ta-Jon had some boys that were available. I maybe shouldn't have done that. I wouldn't want to do anything illiegal.
> 
> I kind of like people posting when pups are available because I love looking at the links. I wouldn't want this to become a big puppy selling forum but I enjoy seeing pups from reputable breeders.......I might want another one soon if Sadie is going to keep on being a big slug. Hope needs a maltese that will PLAY![/B]


I was thinking exactly what you said! I love getting scoops on available puppies and retirees... It's really a very fine line between OK and not OK....


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## wagirl98665 (Jan 5, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=220940
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Dazed & Confused!


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

> Whoops!
> 
> I just got a very kind email from a fellow SM'er that this type of posting isn't allowed anymore. I've asked Joe to remove this thread.
> 
> Sorry about that. I'm still in a time warp after being gone for 3 months![/B]



Like many of the others I enjoy the links to the sites that have puppies available. I can understand the confusion for those on the forum who have puppies available and want to let folks know. Perhaps Joe can establish some guidelines. 

I would hate to have to miss out on sharing the news of members new litters just because someone decided it wasn't ok to post about them. I love puppy pictures









But another issue comes to mind, and I hope I can express an opinion about it without upsetting anyone. I have noticed a couple of posts lately from members saying they received PM's "reprimanding" them for something. One of the reasons I haven't posted much lately was because awhile back I received several emails telling me what/how I should/shouldn't post. 

We are all human and do things differently, some may not agree with the way others say or do something but I think we should try to be more tolerant of the individuality of each person. I remember once there was a big issue about someone posting in all CAPS. ALot of people felt it was necessary to inform the person that it was incorrect. My opinion is so what, who cares!! Someone somewhere decided that CAPS on the internet is "shouting", but is it? I don't hear any shouting.









Next time you are tempted to send someone an e-mail telling them they should do something differently stop and think, does it really matter? Tolerance, acceptance and individuality make for a kind and gentle forum.


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## CandicePK (Nov 11, 2004)

I have to admit I'm a little confused as well regarding what is acceptable and not acceptable. I wouldn't want to break any rules either. Maybe Joe will clarify a bit for us.


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

I also like reading about all the available pups, and I can certainly understand and appreciate Joe's unwillingness to turn this site in to a puppy finding service! I think that common sense should prevail here. If it doesn't feel right, then don't post it. Otherwise, you can always PM Joe and ask for his opinion. I think that long standing members who mention available pups that breeders might have should be ok. I think Joe is trying to avoid people coming on here with the exclusive purpose of selling dogs.


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## thelittlepet (Apr 18, 2006)

I too am a bit confused.







I am in no way associated with the breeder that bred Lily and Bentley other than, she bred Lily and Bentley. But after what seemed like alot of looking and calling to find them when I know of available pups is it okay to say she might have some? Someone in an introduction post asked about pups and I sent them a PM, not wanting to post directly, ultimatly it is up to the individual to contact the breeder. I like my breeders dogs(no bias hee hee hee) but there is nothing in it for me. I just know it is hard when you are new to the search and it is nice to have as many places to call as possible since not everyone will have pups at the same time. I would not start an individual thread about it partly because I owuld never think of it, but can I respond to other responses about people's searches for puppies if I know some are available??
Aimee
i don't want to get into any trouble either, i love it here


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## Zoe and Bella's mom (Jan 23, 2006)

I too, love to see what is available from reputable breeders but it always makes me want another one...just one more...

ginny & zoe & bella


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I just want to make clear that the member who pm'd me about this thread was not reprimanding me. It was a very kind "heads-up" to what she thought was change in policy since I'd been gone. It appears another member had recently had a thread about puppies available from her breeder pulled and she wanted to spare me any embarrassment. 

I appreciated the fact that she alerted me to this and can certainly understand the confusion about what is permitted and what is not. No direct sales is easy to understand, but when _associates_, who are only middlemen and not directly involved in the sale, become involved, the lines get blurred. Is someone who is happy with her breeder and anxious to share available puppies an "associate"? And how is posting a picture or link to available puppies from a respected breeder that much different than just recommending that breeder, which we do at SM all the time?

Another confusion for me is how about breeders who post pictures of their puppies just to share? These puppies are for sale directly from this breeder afterall and those cute pictures might result in a sale. Should that be permitted?

I am glad my post didn't break the rules, but I must confess to being another member who is "dazed and confused" by the policy!


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

> I just want to make clear that the member who pm'd me about this thread was not reprimanding me. It was a very kind "heads-up" to what she thought was change in policy since I'd been gone. It appears another member had recently had a thread about puppies available from her breeder pulled and she wanted to spare me any embarrassment.
> 
> I appreciated the fact that she alerted me to this and can certainly understand the confusion about what is permitted and what is not. No direct sales is easy to understand, but when _associates_, who are only middlemen and not directly involved in the sale, become involved, the lines get blurred. Is someone who is happy with her breeder and anxious to share available puppies an "associate"? And how is posting a picture or link to available puppies from a respected breeder that much different than just recommending that breeder, which we do at SM all the time?
> 
> ...


Agree Marj. I thought I understood until this discussion







. I like seeing the links to prefered breeders when they have puppies.

I am not pointing a finger---but do actually wonder why members are allowed to advertise in the sigs when they have pet shops, or things they sell. It's not puppies obviously, but another question entirely.


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

I think Joe doesn't mind us selling things on here, that's why he made a section for it. He just doesn't want this forum associated with selling live animals and I can understand and respect that. Everyone has brought up great points and I too can't wait for clarification on this subject. 

I like seeing news pups from reputable breeders and am never tempted to buy another because of the disaster I had on my hands with the dachshund we got (not associated with this forum). Fantasia is a one dog family and I am ok with that. But I must also say that I do get bothered when the users here post their pups for sale. I know they are just trying to get good buyers for their pups and not just any person off the street and the members here who are breeders are most likely reputable but some aren't and then who's to say one member can post their pups for sale because they are a good breeder and another member can't post their pups because they aren't such a good breeder. No offence to any of the breeders here because I know most of you are great breeders. 

I also know that rescues post here. I think that should be totally ok but again rescues ask for money for these pups and dogs, even though it's not selling it's an adoption fee to be sure the pup goes to a good home. So is it still ok to post rescue dogs? Is it ok to re-home a dog here? It's not like anyone is making a profit off rescues.


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

I dont know what I can do to clarify this, my brain is







casually mentioning a breeder who has pups, posting pics of pups or even linking in a signature to a breeder still leaves it up to the person interested in a pup to do some research, ask questions and explore their options before making a decision

a breeder, or someone close to that breeder "advertising" pups can encourage impulse buying because it a "familiar" name at SM, many of you have mentioned how hard it is to say "no" and that is not a healthy decision for you or your pup and if allowed i do believe the forum would be flooded with "pup for sale" threads and then it turns into a market place where problems could arise, ie: "i saw a breeder post a wonderful picture of a pup on SM and I bought it and I am having health issues now, i thought it would be ok because it was on SM"

bottom line is i want to encourage research before a purchase and not provide a place where someone can sign on and buy a Maltese just because they want one and there is one for sale, protecting SM itself is another consideration in this

I know there is a fine line with my "rules" but I dont think I can make them any better, I do want members to find pups but i want to make it harder than signing on and choosing one, I hope you see where I am coming from even though I may not be clear or more specific and as always if anyone is in doubt of a post or considering their own post and not sure, you can PM me


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Thank you, Joe. That made it much, much clearer for me.

And let me say again how much I appreciate the time, energy and money you put into SM so that we Maltese lovers have such a wonderful place to come and share our love for these little furballs!

You have created a forum you can be proud of, one that speaks to integrity. You have accomplished the nearly impossible, the largest Maltese forum on the internet that challenges all of us to be adults and respectful to others without heavy-handed moderating, and succeeds 99% of the time.


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## Teddyandme (Feb 6, 2005)

> Thank you, Joe. That made it much, much clearer for me.
> 
> And let me say again how much I appreciate the time, energy and money you put into SM so that we Maltese lovers have such a wonderful place to come and share our love for these little furballs!
> 
> You have created a forum you can be proud of, one that speaks to integrity. You have accomplished the nearly impossible, the largest Maltese forum on the internet that challenges all of us to be adults and respectful to others without heavy-handed moderating, and succeeds 99% of the time.[/B]



I second that....Thanks Joe for all that you do!!!!!!!


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

Sorry, it is still very unclear to me but like Joe said - if I am unsure .. ask.

I posted on another thread with links to two breeders in California because someone asked. Is that allowed? Am I considered associated with them because we email back and forth on a regular basis and I maintain their website? I think they are both amazing people and excellent breeders who are very knowledgeable. I didn't post about available puppies but just their website links.

So as far as I am concerned right now, it is against the rules for me to post about available pups from a particular breeder but I can post about breeders that I have zero interaction and no personal experience. I don't consider myself as a member who only comes on the forum to advertise puppies .. well .. if so .. I will have over 1000 posts of ads.

I know Rhapsody Maltese is a very popular breeder here and she is definitely considered reputable. She breeds and owns some of the top Maltese today. Since I purchased Nibbler from her, am I not allowed to post the same information that others have posted in the past? I would have posted available puppies from Rhapsody Maltese but others will always get to it before me. I don't browse breeder sites on a daily basis. 

I am aware of some puppies before others since I maintain a number of websites. Naturally, I would want SM members who are looking for a Maltese to benefit first. We all know that Maltese are in high demand and they go very fast as soon as they are posted on the website. I sure hope no one just buys a Maltese without thinking. If I look at past examples, all the people who have purchased based on my posts have been thinking about a first or another .. it wasn't because of a photo.

Anyways, I know I need to let this go. It is fruitless for me to keep repeating myself. It's just not making sense to me because I don't make any money selling puppies. For anyone that pms me about any available puppies I post, I am always very upfront and honest with the good and the bad. I don't think I spend hours chatting with SM members that I don't personally know because I don't care about them finding the right Maltese.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> Sorry, it is still very unclear to me but like Joe said - if I am unsure .. ask.
> 
> I posted on another thread with links to two breeders in California because someone asked. Is that allowed? Am I considered associated with them because we email back and forth on a regular basis and I maintain their website? I think they are both amazing people and excellent breeders who are very knowledgeable. I didn't post about available puppies but just their website links.
> 
> ...


I am actively searching now for a sister for Lucy so any heads up for puppies would be awesome! I actually stumbled onto this little boy at Divine the other night and OMG, I'm in love. I emailed about him but haven't heard and I'm out of town with family so I haven't had a chnace to call yet. Does anybody know anything more about him? I know I said I was looking for a girl... but... that face.... Lucy thought he was quite the dish


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## dolcevita (Aug 3, 2005)

As I understand it, you just can't actively be selling the puppy, for example, if you said, I'm helping Breeder X sell her puppy; pm me if you're interested. But it would be ok to say that so-and-so has a puppy, so check it out.


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## CandicePK (Nov 11, 2004)

Thank you Joe. It truly is much much clearer for me as well. I appreciate that you took the time to answer.


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