# How would you handle this?



## Delilahs Mommy (Nov 22, 2009)

I am not quite sure how to handle this situation. I have had Dixie for a week now. The breeder is a friend of my son and I guess you could say she is a friend. She emailed me asking if I still wanted a Maltese puppy, she had lowered the price of the puppies from 600 to 500 and if I still wanted one I could pay her at tax time. Ok so I get Dixie and well I ended up taking her to the ER vet clinic because i thought i had made her sick from bathing her though i followed the directions on the bottle. Dr didnt think so. He ended up showing me a big tapeworm!! She was flea infested. This I'd why I bathed her on Tuesday. By wednesday she was not the same puppy. Very depressed not eatting but this been happening since I got her. Needless to say I just dropped 250.00 on a puppy who's not up to par on shots, tapeworms and fleas not to mention she's pink! They colored them for Halloween! What would you do?? My husband says give her back, but heck I done have 300.00 invested in her!! Not to mention my kids would be heartbroken and so would i. The dr gave me meds pet a lyte and vitacal and some meds for the worms. I emailed the breeder and let her know what was going on. Her parvovirus test came out neg. Just can't see paying 500.00 for a puppy who isn't healthy. We have nothing in writing etc. Any advice is appreciated. Right now I just want Dixie to get well.


----------



## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

I'm sorry you and your kids are going through this. I would return the puppy to the breeder and go get another from a reputable breeder if you still want one. $300 for vet + $500 for the puppy (which I assumed you won't pay until tax time) is nothing compared to the heartache and possibly thousands of dollars you might pay in the future from a poorly bred dog. It does not sound like this breeder is in the AMA. Actually, it doesn't even sound like she's much of a "friend" to give you a puppy that is infested with fleas and tapeworms and made pink for Halloween. It sucks, but rip off the bandaid now and return the puppy to her. She needs to know that it's not okay to stick people with sick puppies.


----------



## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

It is _*inexcusable*_ to sell a puppy with fleas and worms, much less having been dyed PINK. Absolutely inexcusable. Your 'friend' may be a nice person but she is not a good breeder, and if it were me, I would return the puppy now, since you have no idea what kind of problems you might be saddled with. I know it's easy to say to return her when the reality is so much more difficult. You've invested $300 to get her healthy, that is a drop in the bucket compared to what she could wind up costing. 

Good luck with whatever you decide! What a difficult position to be in.


----------



## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

Agree completely with the 2 above posts and what your husband says. I'd return that puppy immediately. You'll be more heartbroken if you keep her and grow more attached because it's clear the woman is not a good breeder- something else is bound to come up on her health.

I'm so sorry you've had to go through this. Please let us know what happens.


----------



## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

That's very sad, for you,your kids & for little Dixie  . I feel really bad about the decision you'll have to make. Shame on that "friend" for doing that to you & especially for doing that to the poor little puppy, she's the saddest victim of this heartbreak. The smart thing for you to do is return the puppy even though it's surely the worse thing for the puppy. I'm so sorry. :grouphug:


----------



## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

I have to state my strong disagreement here even though it looks like I might be the lone voice of disent. I *do not * think that returning the puppy is the best solution for you or your family at this time. Yes, it sounds like you did not get her from very good situation, and for that reason, now that your kids and family have invested your money and your hearts in her I do not think that it would make a bad situation better to return her to the place you got her. I think the ultimate responsibility for her welfare is now in your hands. 

Plus, on the issue of health problems down the road, those are unpredictable in any dog well-bred or not. Most of my dogs came through rescue and some have had health issues, some not. Frankly though it bothers me greatly when people on this forum over-generalize to say that all poorly bred dogs are genetic time bombs because it can scare people away from considering rescue. It is a conventional wisdom that goes too far. My Caly who was clearly a very poorly bred and mistreated dog will be 16 in just a few days. I know several people on this forum who went to very reputable breeders and got puppies with life-threatening conditions. Poor breeding does not guarantee gentic time bombs any more than careful breeding can guarantee healthy dogs. If you look at our health forum you will find a mix of backgrounds in the dogs that are afflicted.


----------



## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (CloudClan @ Nov 27 2009, 12:15 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=855107


> I have to state my strong disagreement here even though it looks like I might be the lone voice of disent. I *do not * think that returning the puppy is the best solution for you or your family at this time. Yes, it sounds like you did not get her from very good situation, and for that reason, now that your kids and family have invested your money and your hearts in her I do not think that it would make a bad situation better to return her to the place you got her. I think the ultimate responsibility for her welfare is now in your hands.
> 
> Plus, on the issue of health problems down the road, those are unpredictable in any dog well-bred or not. Most of my dogs came through rescue and some have had health issues, some not. Frankly though it bothers me greatly when people on this forum over-generalize to say that all poorly bred dogs are genetic time bombs because it can scare people away from considering rescue. It is a conventional wisdom that goes too far. My Caly who was clearly a very poorly bred and mistreated dog will be 16 in just a few days. I know several people on this forum who went to very reputable breeders and got puppies with life-threatening conditions. Poor breeding does not guarantee gentic time bombs any more than careful breeding can guarantee healthy dogs. If you look at our health forum you will find a mix of backgrounds in the dogs that are afflicted.[/B]


Good point. Forget I said anything :brownbag: If it were me though in this situation, I'd be inclined to return the pup but as i said, the reality doesn't always allow that to happen, esp when you've grown attached. The OP asked how 'we' would handle it, so i answered how "I' would handle it.


----------



## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

yes, CloudClan has made a very good point as well.

I'm wondering if she does keep the puppy, what should the payment terms be? Should they still be the same? $500 at tax time? Or should some of the Vet bills be deducted from that price?


----------



## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

I would most likely return her to the breeder. A lot of people don't know what is and isn't a reputable breeder when they buy a puppy..but I think once you know then you can make the right decision from then on. I'm sure you are already attached which will make it difficult to return her and the fact that you've paid $300 in vet bills already makes that a little harder too. But fortunately you haven't paid the breeder for her yet so you haven't supported a backyard breeder and by returning the puppy, you can ensure that you don't support this breeder. Of course she'll sell the puppy to another person that doesn't know any better which is sad but at least you won't have contributed to what this breeder is doing. I'd return her and then look for a reputable breeder to get a well-bred puppy from. Or I'd go to a rescue and adopt a puppy or dog that needed a good home. I just wouldn't want to support a backyard breeder. And I do think there is a much bigger risk of getting a dog with health issues if the breeder doesn't know what they are doing. You never know for sure of course but poorly-bred purebreds do seem to have more health issues that purebreds from reputable breeders.


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

The important point here is the breeder is not acting on behalf of her dogs in a positive way.
She does not take care of them properly. I would consider talking to her and deducting the
300 from the price plus your time and frustration as well as the pet's suffering and request
she call it even. IF she doesn't agree, give the pup back and seek a more reputable breeder
who cares about the welfare and upkeep of the pups BEFORE she sells them. Your best bet
is an exhibitor breeder as they study the pedigrees to help insure the pup will be healthy in
years to come. 

As for wellbred dogs not being any more genetically healthy than byb/mill dogs, I beg to differ.
We do not hear of all the problems and death from those poor creatures as the owners never
make it to forums like this before it happens or the pets are dropped off at rescue, etc.

I'm all for rescue and have done so on more than a few occasions but to be honest we must
realize that most rescues are not wellbred dogs and have a bigger chance of problems. If
that weren't the case we wouldn't be bothering to spend so much for a pure bred from a 
reputable breeder. Yes, there are some healthy rescues that have lived a long time and yes
there are some ill wellbred dogs that won't live a long time, but overall if I am to pay for a dog
I would put my money on a reputable breeder any day.


----------



## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (shanghaimomma @ Nov 27 2009, 01:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=855111


> yes, CloudClan has made a very good point as well.
> 
> I'm wondering if she does keep the puppy, what should the payment terms be? Should they still be the same? $500 at tax time? Or should some of the Vet bills be deducted from that price?[/B]


Frankly, the pup is in her possession with nothing in writing. It will be very difficult for the "breeder" to try to get her money. Most of the cards are in the OP's hands here. At this point, I would put a few things in writing. I would put vet bills and documentation together to show the money you spent. Then I would pay her the difference and not a penny more. Be sure you have gotten her through these health issues before you do that though as you may have another vet visit due to these problems that the breeder should be repsonsible for down the line. I would not wait much longer though, as you want to resolve this for the sake of the pup and your family.


----------



## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

With nothing in writing, neither of you are protected. I would tell her, "Since you are a family friend, although against my better judgment, I will pay you $20, and not sue your ass". Educate her. Nothing is more effective than the threat of a law suit. Seriously, use this opportunity to wake her up. She needs to stop breeding.

You also hold a certain amount of responsibility here. You did agree to pay $500, for a pink, flea infested dog. Couldn't you see any fleas on her? 
Maybe they were pink, as well ~ lol 

Whatever you decide, good luck to you, and Dixie. And yep, spread the word. Do Not Support Mills/BYB's. Go R&R (Reputable Breeder/Rescue)


----------



## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (Cosy @ Nov 27 2009, 02:06 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=855113


> ]
> 
> As for wellbred dogs not being any more genetically healthy than byb/mill dogs, I beg to differ.
> We do not hear of all the problems and death from those poor creatures as the owners never
> ...


Actually, I did not claim there was no difference, just that the difference is WAY overstated on this forum. I believe that breeders who care about health issues in the breed are more likely to produce healthy dogs. But I think it is very unfair to characterize all poorly bred dogs as genetic time bombs. Doing so as is done very often here tends to scare people un-necessarily. Without a doubt the dog that the OP got from this "breeder" would likely not have had so many health issues if she came from a reputable breeder. However, years from now will she have more propencity toward a genetic condition bc she came from such a place? Frankly, I do not think her chances of genetic faults are very much different than those from reputable breeders. Sure, good breeders try to avoid genetic faults, but there are NO genetic tests in Maltese and therefore reputable breeders are not able to prevent genetic issues from affecting their lines. The number of reputable breeders who even test for Bile Acids or OFA, or CERF is pretty darn small. 

As for going to a reputable breeder to get a healthy dog, of course this is what we all want. Still, I must admit I did not expect an absolute guarantee which is unrealistic in any living creaure. My first priority was a breeder who cared about her dogs and the puppies they produced. Caring includes genetic health, but it also includes socialization and general welfare. Every breeder who has been breeding for any length of time encounters health issues and it tells me a lot about those breeders how they deal with them. But frankly, what matters to me most about a breeder is how they keep not just the puppies but the sires and dams. Are those dogs well treated? well-socialized? given proper nutrition, vet care? I go to breeders who care about their dogs bc knowing what I know about mills/bybs my conscience demands it. I do not want to perpetuate the suffering of the dogs that are only dollar signs to the greeders.


----------



## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

I am so sorry that you are going through this and we know the heart ache and Vet bills first hand.

Please just keep your baby. You love Dixie and she will have a better home with you. Be prepared for what is ahead and just love the heck out of her.

I would, friend or not, ask for an inspection of her home as she is selling sick and infested dogs. I have asked for that and Animal Control went and talked to the BYB.

If you rescue, you know ahead of time what lies ahead with that poor baby. Could be health issues but you are prepared and ready to give love and a wonderful home to a very deserving little soul.

Hugs for you and Dixie.

Please pass the word......DO NOT BUY FROM BYB'S, PUPPY MILLS, PET STORES.


----------



## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

I would keep the puppy especially since it were me, I think I would have grown attached by now.

I would deduct the vet bills and say you will not pay until a period of time has passed (maybe until tax time is sufficient) so that you can see if any other problems arise , requiring vet care...and plan to deduct any other costs as well. 

OR I would just do as 3Maltmom says and give her $20.... the vet cost $300 and deduct the remainder for your trouble, time etc. 

Yes talk to the person and try to educate on what she is doing and the repurcussions. Even better that she is a "friend" that you will have the opportunity to talk with her so she can see how animals should be treated and how she should treat people really. 

What about other puppies left there in this condition? I think calling animal control is a good idea if she is not planning to care for these pups properly, and especially if she plans more litters.

Good luck to you, I hope you keep Dixie.


----------



## Lindy (Mar 25, 2009)

Wow, great advice from everyone. IMO I would probably keep that precious little one, not just because of the money invested, but because of the love invested. I just shudder to think about that little puppy going back to where she started. She is now much loved and in a SAFE environment with her new family.


----------



## harrysmom (Sep 28, 2007)

I would definitely keep the puppy. If you return the puppy to the breeder, it probably will not
get good care.... based on the condition in which it came to you. The fleas and the tapeworm
don't really indicate any long-lasting, serious health problems. I would not be able to return
any puppy that I had fallen in love with for any reason. In fact, the fact that a puppy
has health problems would make me even more inclined to keep it.... since I know that
I would get it the best care possible. That may be stupid on my part..... but
that's my opinion. 

As far as the money goes, I agree with the previous poster who said that she would
wait until the dog is healthy, then figure out how much you have spent on vet bills so far 
and pay her the difference. 

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Debbie


----------



## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

This is how I think about it. I might or might not get health problems in my puppy no matter what breeder I get a dog from. *However, a breeder who gave me a dog with tapeworms and fleas has demonstrated to me that she is not very conscientious about the health of her pups. Therefore, in my thinking, the probability that she has had other lapses in judgment on behalf of this dog's health (in breeding, in the care of the puppy's parents) is now significantly increased in my mind.* It's all in the probability and nothing is for certain. If I personally had the dog for only a week, not months or years, would still return the puppy because now there is a huge question mark over this puppy due to breeding practices and healthcare of the pups and parents which I would not feel so sure about anymore. This dog will be a full-fledged family member for years. Others may agree or disagree, but ultimately it is YOUR own decision to make as YOU are responsible in the future for this dog's vet bills and care, as YOU will be the one that will love this dog like your child, even much much more than you love this puppy now, if you can imagine that. We can all state our opinions, but it is your decision and, ultimately, responsibility. I'm very sorry this happened. But please listen to your heart AND your mind.


----------



## notori (Mar 21, 2005)

QUOTE (CloudClan @ Nov 27 2009, 02:15 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=855107


> I have to state my strong disagreement here even though it looks like I might be the lone voice of disent. I *do not * think that returning the puppy is the best solution for you or your family at this time. Yes, it sounds like you did not get her from very good situation, and for that reason, now that your kids and family have invested your money and your hearts in her I do not think that it would make a bad situation better to return her to the place you got her. I think the ultimate responsibility for her welfare is now in your hands.
> 
> Plus, on the issue of health problems down the road, those are unpredictable in any dog well-bred or not. Most of my dogs came through rescue and some have had health issues, some not. Frankly though it bothers me greatly when people on this forum over-generalize to say that all poorly bred dogs are genetic time bombs because it can scare people away from considering rescue. It is a conventional wisdom that goes too far. My Caly who was clearly a very poorly bred and mistreated dog will be 16 in just a few days. I know several people on this forum who went to very reputable breeders and got puppies with life-threatening conditions. Poor breeding does not guarantee gentic time bombs any more than careful breeding can guarantee healthy dogs. If you look at our health forum you will find a mix of backgrounds in the dogs that are afflicted.[/B]


----------



## notori (Mar 21, 2005)

QUOTE (CloudClan @ Nov 27 2009, 02:15 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=855107


> I have to state my strong disagreement here even though it looks like I might be the lone voice of disent. I *do not * think that returning the puppy is the best solution for you or your family at this time. Yes, it sounds like you did not get her from very good situation, and for that reason, now that your kids and family have invested your money and your hearts in her I do not think that it would make a bad situation better to return her to the place you got her. I think the ultimate responsibility for her welfare is now in your hands.
> 
> Plus, on the issue of health problems down the road, those are unpredictable in any dog well-bred or not. Most of my dogs came through rescue and some have had health issues, some not. Frankly though it bothers me greatly when people on this forum over-generalize to say that all poorly bred dogs are genetic time bombs because it can scare people away from considering rescue. It is a conventional wisdom that goes too far. My Caly who was clearly a very poorly bred and mistreated dog will be 16 in just a few days. I know several people on this forum who went to very reputable breeders and got puppies with life-threatening conditions. Poor breeding does not guarantee gentic time bombs any more than careful breeding can guarantee healthy dogs. If you look at our health forum you will find a mix of backgrounds in the dogs that are afflicted.[/B]


I totally agree with Carina! The pup's life is in your hand's now. If people would just educate themselves more before they buy a pup......
Char


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I have had a mill dog that died at age 3. I have had a dog from a "reputable" breeder that died at age 5 from a condition that was 100% genetic. I have that dog's uncle who is 11 and in good health. For the most part, it is a crap shoot in our breed right now. The only tests we have are for phenotype and the number of breeders who do them are small. If it were me, I'd get the pup healthy, do some basic bloodwork and bile acids, and enjoy! Fleas and tapeworms are easy enough to treat. My youngest Maltese had a health problem apparent immediately after coming home. We couldn't love or enjoy him any more than we already do. He has a very reputable and caring breeder...and even knowing he would have been in a good situation, we could never have sent him back. Just as you cannot ensure you never have a health problem, we have no magic ball to look at our dog's future. You do the best you can with what you have and, next time, try to make the best decision from a rescue or reputable breeder.


----------



## Delilahs Mommy (Nov 22, 2009)

Well, good news I guess- I emailed the breeder and asked to be reimbursed for our 246.00 vet bill. She said she would have it for me Friday. The other pup was to go to the vet today and she was going to keep me posted on how she was.


----------



## almitra (Apr 24, 2009)

Thank you for the update--and I am glad you can recoup at least the financial aspect of your immense loss.


----------



## Delilahs Mommy (Nov 22, 2009)

I just heard back from the breeder on dixies sister. She told me she checked out perfect. No fleas or worms. Why do I find this hard to believe?? There's no possible way.


----------



## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

I would ask for a copy of the dogs vet records, not just take her word, and I would ask that of anyone not just because of what happened.

I think the pup needs more than just a check for fleas and worms. Did she offer the dogs vet records or vet receipts to show how often the pup has been to the vet and what was done ?


----------



## LamborghiniGirl (Apr 16, 2009)

I purchased a maltese from a BYB a few years ago and was given vet records and a vet to contact who vouched the puppy was completely healthy. A few days later the puppy was sick, had worms, fleas, ear infection, and a collapsed trachea. Not to be mean, but you are being naive if you think that a vet's word who the shady breeder uses is credible. If you are serious about another puppy from her (I really don't know why you would be), take the puppy to an independent vet you choose to do the checkup. And I agree with everyone else that the puppy should be checked for much more than just worms-- the puppy could be a complete money pit in disguise.


----------



## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

PLEASE do not purchase from this person again. It will only encourage her to breed again and again.
Please put her out of business and report her as I suggested in a pm. 
She is a BYB that cares nothing for her puppies or new owners. Put her name out for all to see and stay away from her.

Shame on this Breed for Greed person. :angry:


----------



## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

Read post about my late puppy in one of your other threads....


----------



## Delilahs Mommy (Nov 22, 2009)

Dont worry, I'm not even going to get the other pup. I would be to paranoid everyday that something would happen. That's more stress I don't need! I visited one breeder today. SCRATCHED off my list.I swear they don't look like Malts. The snouts on some of those dogs seemed to long and narrow. I mean her house was spotless, the dogs are all raised inside. She had her stuff together,but just something about the look of her dogs. See pics I posted on Malt Standard thread.

I did speak with Janice in TN. Great lady!! I may just have to drive up to TN to visit!


----------

