# Hate that



## Tashulia25

So many people talk about mixing breeds but no one talking about mixing same breed but from different standarts. what i hate when I see mixing between European/American Maltese with Korean type Maltese. Why no one stop this? I hate to see how many Korean type Malteses now in NY. I am not that type Maltese person, I call them Maltese aka ****- tzu 
I love European and American standart Malteses and that is why I have them both but if people will keep mixing their beauties with short muzzle Maltese we will lost the unique look of standart Maltese. 
PS. I am not a breeder, at least yet


----------



## zooeysmom

Hmm, well it's always good to get new blood in the lines so Malts don't become too inbred. I happen to love the look of Korean Malts myself


----------



## Orla

That's so funny. Europe and Korea use the same standard, so I have no idea what you mean. Different lines have different looks. Just like in America - you find different looks, but all under the same standard.

Anyway, the Korean lines come from mainly American lines, and not that far back at all.

Personally, I really dislike long muzzles but I have yet to come across a maltese that has a muzzle as short as most shih tzu's. 
Milo's muzzle isn't long, but it's definitely not short. If I were to get another maltese, I would probably look for a slightly shorter muzzle.


----------



## eiksaa

For me personally, the objection against breeding mixes stems from the motives behind it. Again, good breeders become breeders for the love of the breed, and to advance it and make it better. People breed morkies and moodles and whatnot to make profit. There is almost never a noble reason behind mixing two breeds together. 

There is a very noble reason behind mixing two different 'looks' within the same breed if the breeder strongly believes it has chances to produce a superior specimen.

PS - IMO, short muzzles are cute <3 Gustave has a moderate muzzle going and I do his trims intending to make it look more balanced with his face aka shorter


----------



## Furbabies mom

I've never seen a Korean Maltese in person, but some of the ones that I've seen online have very short muzzles and exaggerated eyes. They are cute, but they don't look like the Maltese that I see here. Maybe the ones online that i see are not from a reputable breeder who breeds to the standard .


----------



## Orla

Korean dogs don't look _that_ exaggerated in real life - a lot the breeders are fond of photoshop


----------



## eiksaa

Orla said:


> Korean dogs don't look _that_ exaggerated in real life - a lot the breeders are fond of photoshop


You are right. We have some Korean bred dogs on the forum and they are not that extreme at all. They definitely make the puppies look more exaggerated in the pics.


----------



## Sylie

Orla said:


> Korean dogs don't look _that_ exaggerated in real life - a lot the breeders are fond of photoshop


I have seen pictures of puppies that look like freaks on web-sites of puppy brokers, but I am sure they are photoshopped.

Certainly, there are good breeders and bad breeders in Korea as anywhere. The Korean breeders that I recognize have beautiful dogs with lines that include top US breeders' champions.

Perhaps the favored look of the Maltese has developed a shorter nose over the past decades. I have never seen a Malt with a long muzzle in the show ring, but I have seen Malts on the street that have a long muzzle...to me they look more like my coton than my Malt.


----------



## Tashulia25

Orla said:


> That's so funny. *Europe and Korea use the same standard*, so I have no idea what you mean. Different lines have different looks. Just like in America - you find different looks, but all under the same standard.
> 
> Anyway, the Korean lines come from mainly American lines, and not that far back at all.
> 
> Personally, I really dislike long muzzles but I have yet to come across a maltese that has a muzzle as short as most shih tzu's.
> Milo's muzzle isn't long, but it's definitely not short. If I were to get another maltese, I would probably look for a slightly shorter muzzle.


That is not true. European Maltese has longer muzzle and bigger size. My Teddy is Classical European Maltese, American Maltese has moderate muzzle and smaller size, and Korean maltese has very short muzzle and huge eyes, very close look to shih-tzu Some people call them baby doll face. I am very classic person, and I know I will love any type of dog but when I have choice i will choose European and American. We all have different taste I am just afraid that in one day Maltese will totally change :/ 





Sylie said:


> I have seen pictures of puppies that look like freaks on web-sites of puppy brokers, but I am sure they are photoshopped.
> 
> Certainly, there are good breeders and bad breeders in Korea as anywhere. The Korean breeders that I recognize have beautiful dogs with lines that include top US breeders' champions.
> 
> *Perhaps the favored look of the Maltese has developed a shorter nose over the past decades. I have never seen a Malt with a long muzzle in the show ring, but I have seen Malts on the street that have a long muzzle...*to me they look more like my coton than my Malt.


Stacy's baby has very close look to Korean type 
About show, my Teddy fits perfect for Russia, England, and Africa . He has longer muzzle(not so long as GSP)


----------



## ckanen2n

Every breeder should be breeding to the Standard. I have heard some Korean breeders have reduced the size because so many Koreans live in apartments. I'm not sure if that is true. I still say breeding to the Standard and knowing the various lines and their potential hidden medical issues or faults is the way to go, and best left to the experienced breeder!


----------



## Tashulia25

*Silie* couple on your picture here looks like mine 2 , when they lay down together they look very close to yours. My daughter thought that bigger one is our Teddy and I told her nope, it is some one babies who just look so close


----------



## Tashulia25

ckanen2n said:


> Every breeder should be breeding to the Standard. *I have heard some Korean breeders have reduced the size because so many Koreans live in apartments. *I'm not sure if that is true. I still say breeding to the Standard and knowing the various lines and their potential hidden medical issues or faults is the way to go, and best left to the experienced breeder!


That is what they told me in store :/ Because most people in NY live in apartments they are looking for smaller size ....grrrr, why I feel that it is not the truth? In stores the smallest size cost more than regular. Hate puppy stores , sorry


----------



## Orla

Tashulia25 said:


> That is not true. European Maltese has longer muzzle and bigger size. My Teddy is Classical European Maltese, American Maltese has moderate muzzle and smaller size, and Korean maltese has very short muzzle and huge eyes, very close look to shih-tzu Some people call them baby doll face. I am very classic person, and I know I will love any type of dog but when I have choice i will choose European and American. We all have different taste I am just afraid that in one day Maltese will totally change :/


It is true. Most European countries and Korea both use the FCI standard, as does South Africa.

Fédération Cynologique Internationale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Milo was bred to the English standard and doesn't have a long muzzle, and I can't speak for everyone, but I think most view a long muzzle as undesirable now.


----------



## mdbflorida

Well Boo's Mom is from Brazilian lines and I think he adorable


----------



## Ladysmom

It is my understanding that US show breeders will introduce Maltese from other countries into their lines to broaden the narrow gene pool in our breed. It is not done irresponsibly to "mix standards" as you claim, but an an attempt to make Maltese healthier by reducing the risk of genetic illnesses.

Have you ever read The Complete Maltese? It's arguably the best book on Maltese history and pedigrees since the breed was first introduced to the US in the 1950's. Your Maltese look very much like the foundation Maltese pictured in the book with their longer muzzles. I'm not sure I would describe it as "classic" as all breeds evolve over time, maybe "old fashioned" is a better term?

The Complete Maltese: Nicholas Cutillo: 9780876052099: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## pammy4501

Tashulia25 said:


> So many people talk about mixing breeds but no one talking about mixing same breed but from different standarts. what i hate when I see mixing between European/American Maltese with Korean type Maltese. Why no one stop this? I hate to see how many Korean type Malteses now in NY. I am not that type Maltese person, I call them Maltese aka ****- tzu
> I love European and American standart Malteses and that is why I have them both but if people will keep mixing their beauties with short muzzle Maltese we will lost the unique look of standart Maltese.
> PS. I am not a breeder, *at least yet*


Your lack of basic understanding of the maltese standard and breeding is frightening considering your last statement here. I hope you are not considering breeding these dogs.


----------



## Orla

Ladysmom said:


> It is my understanding that US show breeders will introduce Maltese from other countries into their lines to broaden the narrow gene pool in our breed. It is not done irresponsibly to "mix standards" as you claim, but an an attempt to make Maltese healthier by reducing the risk of genetic illnesses.
> 
> Have you ever read The Complete Maltese? It's arguably the best book on Maltese history and pedigrees since the breed was first introduced to the US in the 1950's. Your Maltese look very much like the foundation Maltese pictured in the book with their longer muzzles. I'm not sure I would describe it as "classic" as all breeds evolve over time, maybe "old fashioned" is a better term?
> 
> The Complete Maltese: Nicholas Cutillo: 9780876052099: Amazon.com: Books


Old fashioned is a good way to put it 

Breeds evolve, just like us. People are generally taller and heavier now than they were many years ago, and we along with maltese will keep evolving over time.

Tashulia25, have you seen a Korean maltese from a reputable show breed in real life? Like I said earlier - pictures can be manipulated, but skilled grooming can also change the look of a dog. Grooming can hide things, make muzzles look shorter, make eyes look different.


----------



## Ladysmom

pammy4501 said:


> Your lack of basic understanding of the maltese standard and breeding is frightening considering your last statement here. I hope you are not considering breeding these dogs.


You must have missed the OP's very heated first thread. She plans to breed Teddy and Elizabeth when Elizabeth is old enough. :thmbdn:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/50-introduce-yourself/151442-hello-ny.html


----------



## Orla

Ladysmom said:


> You must have missed the OP's very heated first thread. She plans to breed Teddy and Elizabeth when Elizabeth is old enough. :thmbdn:
> 
> http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/50-introduce-yourself/151442-hello-ny.html


Oh God :smpullhair:

I just have to say this - Tashulia25, you kept saying things like "classic maltese" and "European maltese". As someone who lives in Europe, maltese here are not bred to have long muzzles. I'm sorry but your male, based on his head wouldn't really do well in shows in England(as you said he would in another thread). Most of the show dogs here have at least a little bit of American lines in them now and even if they don't - all the dogs that do any decent bit of winning, don't have that long of a muzzle. Milo comes from 100% older English show lines, and doesn't have a long muzzle.


----------



## Ladysmom

By the OP's logic, she would be considered a "classic" beauty! :smrofl:

(picture is from an exhibit in the NYC Museum of Natural History)


----------



## Sylie

Tashulia25 said:


> *Silie* couple on your picture here looks like mine 2 , when they lay down together they look very close to yours. My daughter thought that bigger one is our Teddy and I told her nope, it is some one babies who just look so close


You see the dog on the right is a coton de Tulear....not a Maltese. You see the difference in the two. MiMi (to your right) is a Maltese from eight generations of champion American lines. Ray looks exactly like a coton is supposed to look, yet people have come up to me and said they had a Maltese that looked exactly like him...including the fact that he weighs between 13 and 15 pounds.

We all have characteristics that we adore in our little dogs. Your babies are adorable, and I trust have characteristics that you hold high. I appreciate your love of the breed, but I kinda sorta think you are prejudice to a much older standard. That is fine, but you just need to realize that it is the standard of the 1960's that you hold in high esteem. I totally understand, because when I had 3 bichons frises, I loved the look of the less stylized dogs, and I did not like the highly stylized dogs that where showing. 

It is fine. Taste is a personal issue. 

Do you see my siggy pic? This is my Malt, and I think she is totally gorgeous. What do you honestly think?


----------



## Ladysmom

Sylie said:


> You see the dog on the right is a coton de Tulear....not a Maltese. You see the difference in the two. MiMi (to your right) is a Maltese from eight generations of champion American lines. Ray looks exactly like a coton is supposed to look, yet people have come up to me and said they had a Maltese that looked exactly like him...including the fact that he weighs between 13 and 15 pounds.
> 
> We all have characteristics that we adore in our little dogs. Your babies are adorable, and I trust have characteristics that you hold high. I appreciate your love of the breed, but I kinda sorta think you are prejudice to a much older standard. That is fine, but you just need to realize that it is the standard of the 1960's that you hold in high esteem. I totally understand, because when I had 3 bichons frises, I loved the look of the less stylized dogs, and I did not like the highly stylized dogs that where showing.
> 
> It is fine. Taste is a personal issue.
> 
> Do you see my siggy pic? This is my Malt, and I think she is totally gorgeous. What do you honestly think?


I think Bailey's sister Mimi is gorgeous! :wub:

But the takeaway is that while both Mimi and Bailey came from a show breeder and have very impressive pedigrees, both were placed as pets by their breeder with a spay/neuter agreement so they would never be bred.


----------



## Sylie

Ladysmom said:


> I think Bailey's sister Mimi is gorgeous! :wub:
> 
> But the takeaway is that while both Mimi and Bailey came from a show breeder and have very impressive pedigrees, both were placed as pets by their breeder with a spay/neuter agreement so they would never be bred.


Marge, I will never ever forget when I bought my first bows from you, and you said I was so lucky to have a Josymir baby. I will never forget that. Now you have your precious little boy. He is beyond gorgeous. MiMi is so beautiful that I loose my breath daily, being overwhelmed by how beautiful she is. Yes, she turned out to weigh over 7 pounds, but Josy wants to raise pups with strong bones. I think that is a good thing. I suppose that breeding takes a little bit of experimentation. I am happy to be a part of Josy's breeding program that looks to strong, substantial bones.


----------



## hoaloha

Tashulia25 said:


> *Silie* couple on your picture here looks like mine 2 , when they lay down together they look very close to yours. My daughter thought that bigger one is our Teddy and I told her nope, it is some one babies who just look so close





Sylie said:


> You see the dog on the right is a coton de Tulear....not a Maltese. You see the difference in the two. MiMi (to your right) is a Maltese from eight generations of champion American lines. Ray looks exactly like a coton is supposed to look, yet people have come up to me and said they had a Maltese that looked exactly like him...including the fact that he weighs between 13 and 15 pounds.
> 
> We all have characteristics that we adore in our little dogs. Your babies are adorable, and I trust have characteristics that you hold high. I appreciate your love of the breed, but I kinda sorta think you are prejudice to a much older standard. That is fine, but you just need to realize that it is the standard of the 1960's that you hold in high esteem. I totally understand, because when I had 3 bichons frises, I loved the look of the less stylized dogs, and I did not like the highly stylized dogs that where showing.
> 
> It is fine. Taste is a personal issue.
> 
> Do you see my siggy pic? This is my Malt, and I think she is totally gorgeous. What do you honestly think?


Tashulia- I hope you understand that the malt that you are comparing your Teddy to is a Coton de Tulear (Sylie's Ray). Ray is a beautiful representation of a Coton and Mimi is a beautiful representation of a maltese. Her muzzle is not long nor is it extremely short- it is well-balanced with the rest of her facial features. It's not all about muzzle length, but the overall balance.

Different lines have different looks within the standard but, it's just that- it's still within the standard. Personally, I don't want a malt that looks like a Coton or any other breed for that matter. I have NEVER seen a maltese that looked like a shih tzu in the show ring! 

Stop blaming "Korean breeders." Many korean lines are built off American ones!!! There are great and not-so-great breeders in S. Korea just like any other country. Many asian breeders have beautifully bred dogs that are not so extreme with the short muzzle. As others have mentioned, photoshop and grooming techniques can greatly enhance certain features.

Everyone has their own taste, but what is popular is popular for a reason- people like it. I appreciate a well-bred malt no matter the muzzle length- My personal taste is a well-balanced face with a short-medium muzzle. Your taste may be a long muzzle. My two boys have different looks but they both look like maltese to me.


----------



## Tashulia25

Sylie said:


> You see the dog on the right is a coton de Tulear....not a Maltese. You see the difference in the two. MiMi (to your right) is a Maltese from eight generations of champion American lines. Ray looks exactly like a coton is supposed to look, yet people have come up to me and said they had a Maltese that looked exactly like him...including the fact that he weighs between 13 and 15 pounds.
> 
> We all have characteristics that we adore in our little dogs. Your babies are adorable, and I trust have characteristics that you hold high. I appreciate your love of the breed, but I kinda sorta think you are prejudice to a much older standard. That is fine, but you just need to realize that it is the standard of the 1960's that you hold in high esteem. I totally understand, because when I had 3 bichons frises, I loved the look of the less stylized dogs, and I did not like the highly stylized dogs that where showing.
> 
> It is fine. Taste is a personal issue.
> 
> Do you see my siggy pic? This is my Malt, and I think she is totally gorgeous. What do you honestly think?


I love your respond, I love how polite you are and I could not believe your baby is not Maltese. Honestly, it is very first time I hear the breed Cotton de Tulear. Now I feel that Roma, whom I bought from store emotionally was it, but i could never grow his hair long, was always curious why , but also he can be from puppy mill as in stores we never know what we get. Well, at that time I didn't know nothing about pet stores and breeders in USA. Thanks God I have Teddy's papers , other wise I will think now that he is Cotton ....as I got him in USA and really hardly trust people here when time comes to business. 
The Coton de Tulear* comes in three accepted colors*: white (sometimes with tan markings, all white preferred by show breeders), black and white, and tricolor. :blink: Teddy is snow white. Oh I love my babies to death. Who ever meet Teddy fell in love with him.
About telling European, it was the judgment from 2 high reputable breeders Marina Lazareva(her dogs are champions all over the world but not USA because here most of the time we need hanler, and here is the copy paste what Chrisman Maltese told me "CHRISMAN Maltese
The akc standard described the Maltese head as how we are supposed to breed toward. Your Maltese looks more European than American because of the length of the muzzle. A responsible breeder would not determine the quality of the dog basest solely on its head. Many more factors come into the equation, as described in the standard. The dog world has very opinionated people in it. It is best to learn what you can on your own and take advice accordingly" 
now you can see that I am not an idiot , I do learn for already 10 years about Maltese and after some ppl here told me how not good my baby look I spoke with those 2 breeders. 
I hope I can say that my dogs look adorable, snow white and no tear stains. Many videos on facebook , so you'll see that my pictures were not touched in photoshop(I don't use it)
About your Malt picture, Please don't be mad at me.Is it the same one as on picture I found in your album?I love the picture where your little girl laying down with boy  On another picture something bothering me, don't know what. it is late here and I am up from 6AM, so i could not clearly tell what exactly is bothering me from that picture. I don't know how my Princess Elizabeth will look with full grown hair.And i think she is the gorgeous beautiful girl too  I found perfect example what I don't really like, the top picture of the forum in the center , little one, but that just how picture was done  I made million pictures of my babies and on some I hate how they look, here Teddy doesn't look like Teddy, he looks like piggy dog lol 








my sweet princess after bath


----------



## Tashulia25

hoaloha said:


> Tashulia- I hope you understand that the malt that you are comparing your Teddy to is a Coton de Tulear (Sylie's Ray).
> Stop blaming "Korean breeders."
> Everyone has their own taste, but what is popular is popular for a reason- people like it. I appreciate a well-bred malt no matter the muzzle length- My personal taste is a well-balanced face with a short-medium muzzle. Your taste may be a long muzzle. My two boys have different looks but they both look like maltese to me.


Yes I understand!!
I am not blaming breeders I blame that look what i saw in store, I am not telling they are from good breeders
Yep, we all have personal taste and I don't dislike your owen as much you do my boy but from 2 of them I would choose obi for me. Don't get me wrong as I feel that look is very varies because of haircut and i am talking only based on specific picture I see. Any way both your boys so cute looking, owen looks more like a toy, not real one


----------



## Tashulia25

I did fast home work about Cotton and I love animal planet video. It state it is rare breed, so I don't think some one will sell Cotton as a Maltese . They are more bichon to me :/ but some really look like OLD FASHIONED Maltese 
Dogs 101: Coton de Tulear : Video : Animal Planet
I know that standart Maltese size is from 4 to 7 lbs "Under 7 pounds; 4 to 6 pounds preferred." but wikipedia state here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_(dog)
Adult Maltese range from roughly 5 to 12 lb (2.3 to 5.4 kg), though breed standards, as a whole, call for weights between 5-8 lbs. There are variations depending on which standard is being used. Many, like the American Kennel Club, call for a weight that is ideally less than 7 lbs. They stand normally 7-12 inches.


----------



## hoaloha

Tashulia25 said:


> Yes I understand!!
> I am not blaming breeders I blame that look what i saw in store, I am not telling they are from good breeders
> Yep, we all have personal taste and I don't dislike your owen as much you do my boy but from 2 of them I would choose obi for me. Don't get me wrong as I feel that look is very varies because of haircut and i am talking only based on specific picture I see. Any way both your boys so cute looking, owen looks more like a toy, not real one


I think we both agree that poorly bred dogs in either extreme that aren't to the standard ruin our maltese. I happen to like that there are many subtle different "looks" within the standard as it is open to some interpretation. Obi is actually Elena's littermate (Stacy's dog) that you said was more korean-style looking.  I love his look too but I am totally biased, of course. :HistericalSmiley: Owen is cutesy but still very maltese. I think I understand your post that extreme breeding can ruin any breed. But, the popular maltese look in the show ring has evolved over decades and will continue to evolve.


----------



## Tashulia25

i don't like this picture


----------



## bellaratamaltese

You don't like the pic or you don't like the dog?


----------



## hoaloha

Tashulia25 said:


> I love your respond, I love how polite you are and I could not believe your baby is not Maltese. Honestly, it is very first time I hear the breed Cotton de Tulear. Now I feel that Roma, whom I bought from store emotionally was it, but i could never grow his hair long, was always curious why , but also he can be from puppy mill as in stores we never know what we get. Well, at that time I didn't know nothing about pet stores and breeders in USA. Thanks God I have Teddy's papers , other wise I will think now that he is Cotton ....as I got him in USA and really hardly trust people here when time comes to business.
> The Coton de Tulear* comes in three accepted colors*: white (sometimes with tan markings, all white preferred by show breeders), black and white, and tricolor. :blink: Teddy is snow white. Oh I love my babies to death. Who ever meet Teddy fell in love with him.
> About telling European, it was the judgment from 2 high reputable breeders Marina Lazareva(her dogs are champions all over the world but not USA because here most of the time we need hanler, and here is the copy paste what Chrisman Maltese told me "CHRISMAN Maltese
> The akc standard described the Maltese head as how we are supposed to breed toward. Your Maltese looks more European than American because of the length of the muzzle. A responsible breeder would not determine the quality of the dog basest solely on its head. Many more factors come into the equation, as described in the standard. The dog world has very opinionated people in it. It is best to learn what you can on your own and take advice accordingly"
> now you can see that I am not an idiot , I do learn for already 10 years about Maltese and after some ppl here told me how not good my baby look I spoke with those 2 breeders.
> I hope I can say that my dogs look adorable, snow white and no tear stains. Many videos on facebook , so you'll see that my pictures were not touched in photoshop(I don't use it)
> About your Malt picture, Please don't be mad at me.Is it the same one as on picture I found in your album?I love the picture where your little girl laying down with boy  On another picture something bothering me, don't know what. it is late here and I am up from 6AM, so i could not clearly tell what exactly is bothering me from that picture. I don't know how my Princess Elizabeth will look with full grown hair.And i think she is the gorgeous beautiful girl too  *I found perfect example what I don't really like, the top picture of the forum in the center , little one, but that just how picture was done * I made million pictures of my babies and on some I hate how they look, here Teddy doesn't look like Teddy, he looks like piggy dog lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my sweet princess after bath





Tashulia25 said:


> *i don't like this picture *



I know you feel that some people can come across as rude in the forum, but your pointing out members' dogs randomly and stating that you don't like them is actually very rude too. That pic on top is Ava and that is a real pic of her. I'm not sure who the pic you linked is, but I doubt the owner would appreciate someone saying that about her dog randomly.


----------



## eiksaa

Lowest of lows, you're actually pointing at pics of random malts here on the forum and saying you don't like them? Unbelievable. Sometimes it is better to keep your opinion to yourself, specially when it's so ill informed. MiMi is a great example of a gorgeous maltese.

You came here saying you wanted to breed your maltese and got some honest replies from members. Is this how you are taking out your frustration?


----------



## Tashulia25

bellaratamaltese said:


> You don't like the pic or you don't like the dog?


Hi Stacy  you know that I don't like the dog look on that picture  and you remember we spoke about those short muzzle  How your daughter call Elena? but her puppy Obi is adorable, I fell in love with him


----------



## bellaratamaltese

hoaloha said:


> I know you feel that some people can come across as rude in the forum, but your pointing out members' dogs randomly and stating that you don't like them is actually very rude too. That pic on top is Ava and that is a real pic of her. I'm not sure who the pic you linked is, but I doubt the owner would appreciate someone saying that about her dog randomly.


I think the pic posted is a 'stock' maltese photo used on different sites to represent the breed. Honestly, I see nothing wrong with this dog. It's looks 'different' to me only because it is in a single puppy topknot when clearly it's an adult. Here in the USA, rule of thumb is you put double topknots in after a dog is a year. I actually like the dog in the picture, it's not 'extreme' one way or the other.


----------



## Dominic

Tashulia25 said:


> i don't like this picture


You're crazy bottom line. You're lucky this is not my dog that you feel comfortable to share saying you don't like - the picture or the dog. Doesn't matter, plain rude! 

Mentioning Hitler and comparing the holocaust to a dogs neutering was already too much but you keep going on. Mentioning Wikipedia to cover your delusions, honey, who doesn't know wiki is full of garbage? AKC standard tells you what it is - period. 

I don't see how your participation here does any good to improve not only the breed as well the relationship we all built in this forum.


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## Tashulia25

eiksaa said:


> Lowest of lows, you're actually pointing at pics of random malts here on the forum and saying you don't like them? Unbelievable. Sometimes it is better to keep your opinion to yourself, specially when it's so ill informed. *MiMi is a great example of a gorgeous maltese.*
> 
> You came here saying you wanted to breed your maltese and got some honest replies from members. Is this how you are taking out your frustration?


are you kidding me? i didn't say nothing bad about Mimi. OMG, stop reading in wrong way, I don't pick random pictures from the forum, I respond to posts, when people are asking my opinion. What is wrong with you? 1 AM here and I feel I lost my patience, stop turning polite conversation in to fight.


----------



## eiksaa

Tashulia25 said:


> are you kidding me? i didn't say nothing bad about Mimi. OMG, stop reading in wrong way, I don't pick random pictures from the forum, I respond to posts, when people are asking my opinion. What is wrong with you? 1 AM here and I feel I lost my patience, stop turning polite conversation in to fight.


I don't see Marisa asking your opinion about Owen. I don't see Pat asking your opinion about Ava (the pic in the middle). Try harder.


----------



## bellaratamaltese

Tashulia25 said:


> Hi Stacy  you know that I don't like the dog look on that picture  and you remember we spoke about those short muzzle  How your daughter call Elena? but her puppy Obi is adorable, I fell in love with him


Right, I remember  Elena has a short muzzle but it's balanced with her eyes and skull shape so it's not too extreme for me. Obi and Elena are littermates, same mother and father. This is a great example of varying looks in a single litter. 

Here is Obi and Elena's litter - all different. Elena just because a mom a few days ago so will see what her puppy matures to look like!


----------



## Tashulia25

So sad i didn't pay attention to those people who were telling from my first post soooooo bad words about my Teddy.
Like i said before, on this forum I found only 1 nice and helpful person and it is Stacy!! that is who was very understandable and in another topic she was very helpful person. Beauty in and out!! From all breeders here I will recommend only her and BTW, I am not breeding Teddy with Ellie, Elli is waiting her CH from Moscow. I prefer to pay 2,500 Euro for having champion boy than to buy from some of you. 
Out


----------



## hoaloha

Tashulia25 said:


> are you kidding me? i didn't say nothing bad about Mimi. OMG, stop reading in wrong way, I don't pick random pictures from the forum, I respond to posts, when people are asking my opinion. What is wrong with you? 1 AM here and I feel I lost my patience, stop turning polite conversation in to fight.


I don't believe I've ever said anything rude to you about the way your Teddy looks. You did point out Ava (middle dog in forum banner picture) which I stated was a bit rude. Thank you for your nice words of Obi - his pics grabbed me when I first saw them and I'm blessed to have him. I won't tell Owen that you think he is a toy :innocent:


----------



## Emmayui

Um, okay. There are some stores in Flushing import very young malt pups from Korea and sell them. Maybe that's why you're seeing more and more Korean malts in NYC, and we should be angry at them. Elly's Korean malt but has longer muzzle, her sister has shorter muzzle but still doesn't come across as shih tzu at all... They just look like malts..

Bonus  here's Elly with her Coton friend
Photo by eloisecloset • Instagram
She's a au de clair la lune coton.


----------



## mysugarbears

Tashulia25 said:


> So sad i didn't pay attention to those people who were telling from my first post soooooo bad words about my Teddy.
> Like i said before, on this forum I found only 1 nice and helpful person and it is Stacy!! that is who was very understandable and in another topic she was very helpful person. Beauty in and out!! From all breeders here I will recommend only her and BTW, I am not breeding Teddy with Ellie, Elli is waiting her CH from Moscow. I prefer to pay 2,500 Euro for having champion boy than to buy from some of you.
> Out



I've read the thread and i didn't see where anyone said bad things about Teddy, maybe that he's not show potential but nothing bad or derogatory. When you come on here and publicly bash another members dog because you personally don't like their look, that's rude, some opinions are best kept to themselves. You really have alot to learn about forum etiquette and decorum!


----------



## Orla

Tashulia25 said:


> i don't like this picture


That dog is from English breeding and is an English champion - not recently, a few years ago. I thought you liked English dogs? I know his breeder and owner and she will not be happy that you have insulted her dog like that.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## zooeysmom

You have got to be kidding, girlfriend. The dog in the picture is gorgeous, and if you don't like the look, keep it to yourself!! And as for not liking Ava's look, wow. I think you're just jealous because Ava's one of the cutest Malts in the universe!


----------



## CrystalAndZoe

Tashulia25 said:


> I love your respond, I love how polite you are and I could not believe your baby is not Maltese. Honestly, it is very first time I hear the breed Cotton de Tulear. Now I feel that Roma, whom I bought from store emotionally was it, but i could never grow his hair long, was always curious why , but also he can be from puppy mill as in stores we never know what we get. Well, at that time I didn't know nothing about pet stores and breeders in USA. Thanks God I have Teddy's papers , other wise I will think now that he is Cotton ....as I got him in USA and really hardly trust people here when time comes to business.
> The Coton de Tulear* comes in three accepted colors*: white (sometimes with tan markings, all white preferred by show breeders), black and white, and tricolor. :blink: Teddy is snow white. Oh I love my babies to death. Who ever meet Teddy fell in love with him.
> About telling European, it was the judgment from 2 high reputable breeders Marina Lazareva(her dogs are champions all over the world but not USA because here most of the time we need hanler, and here is the copy paste what Chrisman Maltese told me "CHRISMAN Maltese
> The akc standard described the Maltese head as how we are supposed to breed toward. Your Maltese looks more European than American because of the length of the muzzle. A responsible breeder would not determine the quality of the dog basest solely on its head. Many more factors come into the equation, as described in the standard. The dog world has very opinionated people in it. It is best to learn what you can on your own and take advice accordingly"
> now you can see that I am not an idiot , I do learn for already 10 years about Maltese and after some ppl here told me how not good my baby look I spoke with those 2 breeders.
> I hope I can say that my dogs look adorable, snow white and no tear stains. Many videos on facebook , so you'll see that my pictures were not touched in photoshop(I don't use it)
> About your Malt picture, Please don't be mad at me.Is it the same one as on picture I found in your album?I love the picture where your little girl laying down with boy  On another picture something bothering me, don't know what. it is late here and I am up from 6AM, so i could not clearly tell what exactly is bothering me from that picture. I don't know how my Princess Elizabeth will look with full grown hair.And i think she is the gorgeous beautiful girl too  I found perfect example what I don't really like, the top picture of the forum in the center , little one, but that just how picture was done  I made million pictures of my babies and on some I hate how they look, here Teddy doesn't look like Teddy, he looks like piggy dog lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my sweet princess after bath


It seems to me that really, the look you are consistently preferring is that of the Coton de Tulear. Perhaps that is why you are finding fault with what is truly considered correct conformation and standard for looks in Maltese. I think you really need to look at your sources of information however. Here is a link to the American Parent Club for the Coton's. You may want to look at what their description states for coat and color. I've not looked for the parent clubs for Europe but I'm assuming the coat coloring would be the same.

AKC Breed Standard


----------



## michellerobison

Aww I love my Malty's longer muzzles, I think they look elegant... One one with the shorter muzzle is Daisy, my foster that came from a puppymill. I think she's adorable too...
Now that I look closer Bitsy's muzzle is longer, Sasha, Emily and Rylee are a little shorter, more moderate. Daisy's is short. Daisy is almost 4 and she looks like a puppy, must be the shorter muzzle...

I saw a korean bred Hello Kitty faced Malt with the short muzzle on another forum, she showed us her breeder's pix, when she got her, the eyes weren't as huge ( and weird looking) and the muzzle wasn't as short. Thankfully the fluff looked much better than the photoshopped piccies...


----------



## Tashulia25

Ok, I asked to remove account and all posts but i am still here. Well, i am sick and tired to explain that i am not fighting with no one, and not insulting dogs. I love all animals and that is all. All I state that some look is not my type. I know all the standarts, and AKC.org is my guide on everything When I give links to other resources it is only because to show other states. Compare to some ppl I never think that I am always right. Yes i like the look of white cotton, but it is way bigger than maltese, plus hair is way different. My Teddy is smaller than cotton, he is NOT that breed, I have all his papers and pedigree certificate!!! 
Thank you *Emmayui*maybe now some will understand what I mean. I told before that *it is me* who is calling them maltese alia shih-tzu
When you are telling that I am jealous, well that is your opinion based on chat, I am just curious, if I am crazy about that look then why I didn't get that type of look for myself? I am not blind person and I saw parents of my babies before I even went to pick them up. If , in your opinion, who wrote that i am jealous, that I jealous because they looks so adorable(actually they do, but not MY type), then why I adopted 1 eyed dog???
and at the end...you don't know me personally but you did hurt me without even thinking who I am in real life. 
This forum is not really supportive for new people, it is political as all dog shows in USA, that is so sad


----------



## Snowball Pie's Mommi

I haven't even read this whole thread. But, I feel compelled to say something with what I did read.

I think it is so incredibly sad that our world puts so much emphasis on the perfect look ... both in humans and animals. It's so sad that some can't see the beauty in a loving animal or person ... but, instead seem to expect and seek total perfection.


----------



## Snowbody

Dominic said:


> You're crazy bottom line. You're lucky this is not my dog that you feel comfortable to share saying you don't like - the picture or the dog. Doesn't matter, plain rude!
> 
> Mentioning Hitler and comparing the holocaust to a dogs neutering was already too much but you keep going on. Mentioning Wikipedia to cover your delusions, honey, who doesn't know wiki is full of garbage? AKC standard tells you what it is - period.
> 
> I don't see how your participation here does any good to improve not only the breed as well the relationship we all built in this forum.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


:goodpost:


mysugarbears said:


> I've read the thread and i didn't see where anyone said bad things about Teddy, maybe that he's not show potential but nothing bad or derogatory. When you come on here and publicly bash another members dog because you personally don't like their look, that's rude, some opinions are best kept to themselves. You really have alot to learn about forum etiquette and decorum!


:goodpost:
Here are SM Rules: 
Treatment of SM’s Members:
*You are to treat all members with respect. Follow the old saying, “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” It is fine to disagree with another member, but do so respectfully. You may respectfully attack a member’s point of view but do not attack the member personally. *
You have attacked us personally by attacking member's dogs. I find your writings very inflammatory and insulting and I do remember something similar happening years ago and that member being banned. You said you asked to have your account closed. I hope that the admin and mods look into this. You have been rude and insulting for no reason.


----------



## cheekyradish

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I haven't even read this whole thread. But, I feel compelled to say something with what I did read.
> 
> I think it is so incredibly sad that our world puts so much emphasis on the perfect look ... both in humans and animals. It's so sad that some can't see the beauty in a loving animal or person ... but, instead seem to expect and seek total perfection.




well said :thmbup:


----------



## Emmayui

I was just telling you the fact that there are those specialized pet stores. I've read the thread and it doesn't sound like you were trying to say what I pointed out.


----------



## Cassievt

My sister just visited with a friend who is a judge. She was studying up on the Coton de Tulear . She was showing me how much they look like my baby. Thank you for sharing your babies side by side. I can see the similarities and difference between the breeds.



Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## CrystalAndZoe

Tashulia25 said:


> Ok, I asked to remove account and all posts but i am still here. Well, i am sick and tired to explain that i am not fighting with no one, and not insulting dogs. I love all animals and that is all. All I state that some look is not my type. I know all the standarts, and AKC.org is my guide on everything When I give links to other resources it is only because to show other states. Compare to some ppl I never think that I am always right. Yes i like the look of white cotton, but it is way bigger than maltese, plus hair is way different. My Teddy is smaller than cotton, he is NOT that breed, I have all his papers and pedigree certificate!!!
> Thank you *Emmayui*maybe now some will understand what I mean. I told before that *it is me* who is calling them maltese alia shih-tzu
> When you are telling that I am jealous, well that is your opinion based on chat, I am just curious, if I am crazy about that look then why I didn't get that type of look for myself? I am not blind person and I saw parents of my babies before I even went to pick them up. If , in your opinion, who wrote that i am jealous, that I jealous because they looks so adorable(actually they do, but not MY type), then why I adopted 1 eyed dog???
> and at the end...you don't know me personally but you did hurt me without even thinking who I am in real life.
> This forum is not really supportive for new people, it is political as all dog shows in USA, that is so sad


I was referring to your description of coat colors on the Coton's. It is incorrect and not from the AKC Parent Club. 

That being said, we have had other threads in the past about the extreme baby doll faces and the concerns about them. So I understand what you are trying to say up to a point. However none of the dogs you have pointed out have the extreme, 'hello kitty' heads, eyes, and faces and are great representations of the breed standard. 

I still think that since its the look of the Coton's you prefer, even though they are not the size you prefer, you may be better served getting a Coton in the future. 




Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Tashulia25

Crystal&Zoe said:


> I was referring to your description of coat colors on the Coton's. It is incorrect and not from the AKC Parent Club.
> 
> That being said, we have had other threads in the past about the extreme baby doll faces and the concerns about them. So I understand what you are trying to say up to a point. However none of the dogs you have pointed out have the extreme, 'hello kitty' heads, eyes, and faces and are great representations of the breed standard.
> 
> I still think that since its the look of the Coton's you prefer, even though they are not the size you prefer, you may be better served getting a Coton in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I didn't want to hurt no one and was trying to explain, but when I mad I lost my mind, especially after long day. That can be just some pictures , can be the hair style, same like I don't like the look of my babies on some pictures, and I love all dogs , any breed but some I can have for myself some not.
The cotton's hair texture is much different than Maltese. I know that colored Cotton's are not for the show, only white. I know that they are very popular in Finland and Europe itself but still not AKC breed. I will wait for sure on my decision about cotton as I am not going to do mistake again(purchased my first Maltese from store) with buying dog from store or breeder I couldn't trust. Not so manny cottons up for sale but those which I saw not white and very cheap :mellow: I did research just to learn not to buy, it is always interesting to know something new. And I am so glad that now I know new breed to me  Thank you so much. I was asking about that breed 4 Americans and none of them knew about it, I asked 1 show breeder from Russia and she explained me the difference in their look and in her opinion , when you have Maltese like Teddy and Cotton from the show you'll see the diference. For me , based on pictures and video, they are very look alike . I wish i can meet high quality Cotton in real life, just to see, touch, and hug him/her


----------



## zooeysmom

Here is a good example of Cotons: Cotons of Tara | North American Coton Association | Coton de Tulear Puppies They are so beautiful.


----------



## Tashulia25

zooeysmom said:


> Here is a good example of Cotons: Cotons of Tara | North American Coton Association | Coton de Tulear Puppies They are so beautiful.


they are and so fluffy . I am far away from TX , will wait till they appear in NY (show quality)


----------



## Tashulia25

those pictures of fluffy balls made me happy smile, only animals can make me smile like that, honestly. They are just so adorable


----------



## Fluffdoll

Crystal&Zoe said:


> I still think that since its the look of the Coton's you prefer, even though they are not the size you prefer, you may be better served getting a Coton in the future.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I agree! 

And since you pointed out how you like Sylie's Ray (who is a gorgeous Coton), and how you dislike Maltese' shorter muzzle, then I don't understand what you are doing here, picking out what you don't like in our fluffs? I still am shocked how you publicly said you disliked Ava (one of the most beautiful Maltese I've seen), who by the way is American and NOT Korean. So it's not the "Korean Maltese" you hate, it is also the Americans. I think it is fine that you have your opinion and taste, but it's not very nice to specifically point out the fluff with the traits you dislike. 
You also stated that the members on this forum aren't nice to new members, well that is completely false. When I joined at the end of last year, everyone was warm and welcoming; I had never seen any one here say mean things about other fluffs. That is, until now when I read your post. :mellow:


----------

