# BREEDER



## JAKIEP33 (Apr 20, 2005)

HI, I found a breeder she was refered to me from a kennel club.
I just wanted to see if anyone heard of Diane Poulos she is from MA Braintree?

thank you!!!


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## JAKIEP33 (Apr 20, 2005)

well we went to see the puppies this weekend and the breeder seemed good.
My only problem with her wa that she did not offer a health garentee.
But everything else seemed good. the parent are both around and she is going to have the pup till 12 weeks .
We got a little girl, I already named her Daisy. She is cute I hope she is healthy.


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## rubyjeansmom (Jan 6, 2005)

Congratulations!!! I love the name Daisy!! I hope you'll post pics so we can see her!!!


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

Congradulations!


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

I think Daisy is a cute name too. I would also ask for a health certificate or guarantee as all good breeders usually offer one.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

Congrats!


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## JAKIEP33 (Apr 20, 2005)

Thanks everyone !!! we are excited but still nervous.

But we look forward for her to come home..

thanks,

steph


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## AJ (Jun 5, 2005)

How exciting!!!! We were thinking about the name Daisy, adorable!


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JAKIEP33_@Jun 26 2005, 08:33 PM
> *well we went to see the puppies this weekend and the breeder seemed good.
> My only problem with her wa that she did not offer a health garentee.
> But everything else seemed good. the parent are both around and she is going to have the pup till 12 weeks .
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Congratulations on your new baby. Hope you can post pictures soon.

I'm curious as to why this breeder doesn't provide a health guarantee. Did she say why?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Massachusetts doesn't have much of a "puppy lemon law" and hobby and byb's are exempt, so be very careful.

I'm wondering, just like Lucy Lou is, why this breeder doesn't offer any sort of health guarentee.

Massachusetts Law 

This Law is actually entitled "Operation and Licensing of Pet Shops" so it does not apply to most hobby breeders. It does have provisions similar to the Puppy Lemon Laws of the other states, so it is included here.

Pros: does not effect most hobby breeders

Cons: does not effect back yard breeders, time period to find congenital problems too short.


Applies to: pet shop licensee. 
Contagious or Infectious Disease: 14 days 
Congenital or Hereditary Defects: 14 days 
Failure to Produced Advertised Registration Papers: no 
Replacement: yes 
Refund: yes 
Reimbursement of Veterinary Expenses to Treat Dog: no


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## JAKIEP33 (Apr 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LucyLou+Jun 27 2005, 01:06 PM-->
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Congratulations on your new baby. Hope you can post pictures soon.

I'm curious as to why this breeder doesn't provide a health guarantee. Did she say why?
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She said that she doesn't have one on her kids so she can't offer one.
She said our vet can check her out and if anything is wrong with her she will take her back.

i don't know but I hope for the best.


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## JAKIEP33 (Apr 20, 2005)

OK now I am a little upset. I guess I was reffered to this women from the kennel club and not the AMA.
So I am not sure if I should continue with the purchase what do you guys think?

I am so confused now...









such a hard choice to make.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JAKIEP33_@Jun 27 2005, 03:58 PM
> *OK now I am a little upset. I guess I was reffered to this women from the kennel club and not the AMA.
> So I am not sure if I should continue with the purchase what do you guys think?
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Do you know if she is a backyard breeder or does she seem to know the lines behind her dogs, etc.? I feel for ya.... it is so hard to know what to do........


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

She said that she doesn't have one on her kids so she can't offer one.
She said our vet can check her out and if anything is wrong with her she will take her back.

i don't know but I hope for the best.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=75687
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By now, you have probably figured out that I'm a hard nose on doing it right. In my opinion, saying one can't give a guarantee is bull s---. She could give one if she wanted to. On another note, if she doesn't know her own dogs well enough to guarantee health of their offspring, then she shouldn't be breeding them.


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## Chelsey (Dec 17, 2004)

If it were me I would pass and find a breeder that would garentee ,if the puppy got ill or or something worse.
One of my friend got a wonderful papilon and then after three month puppy took so ill, they never found out what it was. The breeder replaced her puppy.
Of course they could never replace the puppy that you brought home, but if you wanted an other were or how would you be able to come up with an other 1200 - 1500 dollors.

I think it would also give you peace of mind.


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## JAKIEP33 (Apr 20, 2005)

> She said that she doesn't have one on her kids so she can't offer one.
> She said our vet can check her out and if anything is wrong with her she will take her back.
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> i don't know but I hope for the best.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=75687



By now, you have probably figured out that I'm a hard nose on doing it right. In my opinion, saying one can't give a guarantee is bull s---. She could give one if she wanted to. On another note, if she doesn't know her own dogs well enough to guarantee health of their offspring, then she shouldn't be breeding them.
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She say's she has been doing this for 12 years ( Maltese ) She seems to know the breed well and does everything else the proper way. She told me both parent are in good health and we meet both of them.They are friendly and full of life.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

She say's she has been doing this for 12 years ( Maltese ) She seems to know the breed well and does everything else the proper way. She told me both parent are in good health and we meet both of them.They are friendly and full of life.
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I'm sorry, but anyone who won't guarantee their dogs just smells fishy to me.

And about the kennel club referral--my friend has a member in hers (in another state from mine) who is a dog/cat hoarder, has admitted to giving the cat drugs and having a sex act with the dog, and is a pediophyle. While this is extremely rare, one doesn't have to be on the up and up to be a member. For my local group, I just had to attend two meeting, then be voted in.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JAKIEP33_@Jun 27 2005, 07:29 PM
> *She say's she has been doing this for 12 years ( Maltese ) She seems to know the breed well and does everything else the proper way. She told me both parent are in good health and we meet both of them.They are friendly and full of life.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=75759*


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I would ask where she got the dam and sire. I would also ask to see their pedigrees.


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## paris'mom (Jul 14, 2004)

I would stop the purchase immediately. Sorry, this breeder, although seemingly nice and knowledgeable, is not a good breeder by definition. 

Like LucyLou said- shouldn't breed if cannot give a health guarantee. She will most likely NOT back up her words and take the puppy back and blame any problems on you. 

It's easy to be a fake GOOD breeder. Just read what every website says on HOW TO SPOT A GOOD BREEDER. and present yourself in that manner. 

There is no guarantee that those other dogs on the premise is even related to the puppy. She's too fishy. If she has been breeding for that long, I'm sure she's been told and knows about the standard practice of health guarantees. She's not giving one in writing for a reason. 

Please spare yourself and family the headache and keep on looking.


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## JAKIEP33 (Apr 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Jun 27 2005, 08:34 PM-->
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I would ask where she got the dam and sire. I would also ask to see their pedigrees.
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MY husband saw those things but what should we be looking for?

The grandparents were champions .

thank you


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

"She said that she doesn't have one on her kids so she can't offer one".

Odd statement. She isn't selling her skinkids to third parties, is she?

I "googled" this breeder and she does show so that's a big plus. I still can't imagine a show breeder or any sort of reputable breeder not offering any health guarentee at all, though.

I posted this link last week, but you may want to read this article with this breeder in mind. It examines the "ignorance is bliss" attitude.

http://www.caninechronicle.com/features/misc/milton_404.html

If it were me I'd probably keep looking. This puppy you want to add to your life will hopefully be with you for a long, long time. It will be worth the time to search for one who has the best chance of being healthy and bringing you happiness for many years.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Do you have the URL of her website?


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## JAKIEP33 (Apr 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom_@Jun 28 2005, 01:06 PM
> *Do you have the URL of her website?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=75976*


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she does not have a website.


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## AJ (Jun 5, 2005)

Oh, she doesnt have a website.


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## JAKIEP33 (Apr 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by angel_@Jul 4 2005, 12:17 AM
> *I think Laptop Maltese is your best bet, she gives a year health guarantee.  We were looking into an advertisement in a newspaper for a female maltese, but the breeder gave a 3 day guarantee se we did not buy from her, you never know what can happen...
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=77768*


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I looked into laptop maltese . The women is to controling and does not have the parents on site nor does she keep the pups till 12 weeks old.
When I wrote the Maltese Association about her they told me to pass on any of her puppies. Having the parents around them is something that should be practiced, Even if it is one parent.

We decide to buy from this women and hope for the best. She has been doing it for 12 years and everything else looks good.The health garentee was the only problem but as I research I see not many breeders do offer health garantees. 

thank you all for trying to help me !


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## Joann (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JAKIEP33+Jul 4 2005, 10:16 AM-->
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I looked into laptop maltese . The women is to controling and does not have the parents on site nor does she keep the pups till 12 weeks old.
When I wrote the Maltese Association about her they told me to pass on any of her puppies. Having the parents around them is something that should be practiced, Even if it is one parent.

We decide to buy from this women and hope for the best. She has been doing it for 12 years and everything else looks good.The health garentee was the only problem but as I research I see not many breeders do offer health garantees. 

thank you all for trying to help me !
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=77811
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Sorry, but I don't see many reputable breeders without a guarantee. We bought from Harpaw.com, saw the parents, received a 1 year guarantee with a FULL AKC registration last November. The latest offspring from this breeder currently carry a $1,500+ pricetag. We are very happy with our Drill Sergeant, but did research for over 6 months before we visited the breeder. Please take your fur baby to your vet as soon as you get home and ask for blood tests as well as the breed-specific genetic disorders-you wont' be sorry if you have a guarantee.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/Dril...e/DS3-12-05.jpg


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I personally would not bring home a puppy without bile acids and liver values (ALT, ALKP) having been done already. It is not yet the standard to test pups before they leave, but some breeders are beginning to do so. I've spoken to a few breeders I like and none of them had a problem when I asked if they would consider doing it before I committed to a pup. I've been through the liver disease and the luxating patellas and the eye issues. It isn't fun and if your dog is a few years old when you find out, there is usually no guarantee and you aren't going to return the dog at that point.


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## JAKIEP33 (Apr 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Jul 4 2005, 10:43 AM
> *I personally would not bring home a puppy without bile acids and liver values (ALT, ALKP) having been done already. It is not yet the standard to test pups before they leave, but some breeders are beginning to do so. I've spoken to a few breeders I like and none of them had a problem when I asked if they would consider doing it before I committed to a pup. I've been through the liver disease and the luxating patellas and the eye issues. It isn't fun and if your dog is a few years old when you find out, there is usually no guarantee and you aren't going to return the dog at that point.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=77818*


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I know that, my puppy at 3 died of cancer after 2 patella surgeries and a salvary gland surgery.We went through it all with our little Jake. 
We decided to go with this lady because she was refered and because we have been looking for several months now. In life we have no health garantee that we will live to be old, We take a chance and give this puppy the best life we can give her. We will get her checked out by our vet asap but once you love her you love her for good.

thanks for everyones concern !


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## JAKIEP33 (Apr 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by MomtwoMaltmuffins+Jul 4 2005, 07:05 PM-->
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So very very true about no guarantees in life and loving her for good no matter how long they are with us, and I hope that you will have many many years with your little one. At least you got to meet the parents that is a plus

When do you get her?
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Well I can get her in the end of July that is when she will be 12 weeks but I might ask the breeder to watch her for another week so I can plan my vacation around when we get her.
We are very excited can hardly wait to bring Daisy home.

Thanks again to everyone for your thought on the matter...


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## Laceys mom (Nov 12, 2004)

I love the name Daisy....that is what I wanted to name Lacey but my husbands ex found out so she went and purchased a bichon from a petstore and you guessed it, named her dog Daisy. She is type of woman if she sees I have a new haircut or color she has to go out and do it. She is the type of person that just loves to upstage everyone...but I am sorry I am going off topic. Can't you just feel the love between us?


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## RexsMom (Jun 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Laceys mom_@Jul 4 2005, 08:50 PM
> *I love the name Daisy....that is what I wanted to name Lacey but my husbands ex found out so she went and purchased a bichon from a petstore and you guessed it, named her dog Daisy.  She is type of woman if she sees I have a new haircut or color she has to go out and do it.  She is the type of person that just loves to upstage everyone...but I am sorry I am going off topic.  Can't you just feel the love between us?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78052*


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Been there! My cousin in law named her daughter the exact same name I named my daughter a year after I named my daughter. I was sure to keep it secret too, she had already named her first daughter similar to my sons name after the fact as well. 
Petstores are bad, so I can tell she isnt very smart!!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by RexsMom+Jul 4 2005, 09:53 PM-->
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Been there! My cousin in law named her daughter the exact same name I named my daughter a year after I named my daughter. I was sure to keep it secret too, she had already named her first daughter similar to my sons name after the fact as well. 
Petstores are bad, so I can tell she isnt very smart!!
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Off topic, but I love your siggy!!!


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## Bridge (Jun 2, 2005)

Congratulations! That's the name I picked out for the little girl I was going to get, but now it's a boy. It's such a cute name!


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## JAKIEP33 (Apr 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Bridge_@Jul 6 2005, 12:21 PM
> *Congratulations!  That's the name I picked out for the little girl I was going to get, but now it's a boy.  It's such a cute name!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78619*


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Thank you!


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## JAKIEP33 (Apr 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JAKIEP33+Jul 6 2005, 03:54 PM-->
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Thank you!








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We got Daisy on the 22nd of July She is so darn cute. We just adore her... I can't wait to show everyone pictures.


thanks again.


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## Violet's Mom (Aug 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JAKIEP33+Aug 12 2005, 02:01 PM-->
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We got Daisy on the 22nd of July She is so darn cute. We just adore her... I can't wait to show everyone pictures.


thanks again.
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what a gorgeous doggie you have there


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I am probably alone here but I don't get what the big deal about Health Guarantees are. Jenny Siliski offered 5 year health guarantees that were basically empty promises. All of my Maltese have health guarantees.

These guarantees will not help pay for medical bills or guarantee that you pup has no genetic defects ever! The condition is that if you can proof it, you can give your puppy back in exchange for another. At the end of the day, when your puppy becomes sick, are you really willing to give them back for another? I personally am not. 

Yes, good breeders should offer health guarantees but we put too much worth on them. From this breeder's standpoint, what will the guarantee be if she doesn't plan to have many litters and may not have another puppy to give to her. The best she can do is to take back the puppy and give her a refund. How many years should this last? If the puppy becomes sick at 10 years old, should a full refund be provided?


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

> _Originally posted by CharmyPoo_@Aug 13 2005, 09:47 AM
> *I am probably alone here but I don't get what the big deal about Health Guarantees are.  Jenny Siliski offered 5 year health guarantees that were basically empty promises.  All of my Maltese have health guarantees.
> 
> These guarantees will not help pay for medical bills or guarantee that you pup has no genetic defects ever!  The condition is that if you can proof it, you can give your puppy back in exchange for another.  At the end of the day, when you puppy becomes sick, are you really willing to give them back for another?  I personally am not.
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I agree with you,very good things to think about.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)

CharmyPoo, I agree with you and have thought that all along. I really don't understand the point of a health guarantee for the exact reasons you stated. Plus, it is so hard to determine if the problem is genetic and falls in that very narrow loop hole where the breeder would be required to pay or replace the pup. 

I have heard stories where people have taken the breeder to court over issues like this and in the end, the breeder usually wins. In my opinion, I would rather save my money and put it towards the care of my dog. Seems to become more of a headache than a solution. 

If it were me, I guess the only recourse I would have/do, would be to call the breeder and let her know what the health of the dog is and that in the future she may not want to breed that dog again. Of course too, many times, health problems do not arise until the dog is approximately 4 years of age. If you wait until then to contact the breeder, how many litters has the female had since your dog was a pup? 

I think sometimes we get hung up on what is "politically correct" in purchasing a pup and overlook the reality of it all.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I have always contacted the breeder when an issue arises with the pup -- whether it be my fault or a genetic issue. I have never asked for anything in return but I feel that if I was the breeder I would want to know too. Good breeders will think of the puppies as their babies even when they are sold. I would think they would also want to know of any potential genetic problems.

I have found that the breeders I worked with appreciated these updates and were concerned about their kids. Luckily, I didn't have to make many calls like this.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

I think a breeder should take a pup back from the owner when a genetic problem arises only if the owner can't adequately care for the health needs of the dog. If the owner is able to care for it, then they should keep it. However, I believe the breeder should provide compensation for medical expenses up to the cost of the pup, or offer the person a second pup at at 1/2 the cost of the original one, and let them keep the sick one. If the pup died, then they owe them another pup of equal value.
I have a friend who raises very nice Scotties. She had a person buy two dogs from her, then demand the money back because she said they had skin problems. She was shocked, as she had never had this in her line, but my friend refunded the money and let her keep the dogs. Later, she found out the dogs didn't have any problem, but the woman was going through a divorce and needed money. So, there should be adquate documentation on the nature of the problem.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LucyLou_@Aug 13 2005, 05:45 PM
> *I think a breeder should take a pup back from the owner when a genetic problem arises only if the owner can't adequately care for the health needs of the dog.  If the owner is able to care for it, then they should keep it.  However, I believe the breeder should provide compensation for medical expenses up to the cost of the pup, or offer the person a second pup at at 1/2 the cost of the original one, and let them keep the sick one.  If the pup died, then they owe them another pup of equal value.
> I have a friend who raises very nice Scotties.  She had a person buy two dogs from her, then demand the money back because she said they had skin problems.  She was shocked, as she had never had this in her line, but  my friend refunded the money and let her keep the dogs.  Later, she found out the dogs didn't have any problem, but the woman was going through a divorce and needed money.  So, there should be adquate documentation on the nature of the problem.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=90243*


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I agree that the ideal would be to reimburse up to the purchase price towards medical bills. I know even though that would be a drop in the bucket on Mikey, it would help...chronic health problems from genetic issues are an expensive pita.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

This is all nice and good, but how long after you bought the dog can you ask for a refund ? If the dog gets sick when he is 4 years old, can you decently ask the breeder for a refund ?


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

I had to think about this before I answered. I think 4 yrs old is just too old to ask for help with medical expenses. I hate to make this comparison, but its a little bit like having a car on a warranty. At some point the car just become old and breaks down. Or its like children...the yound childhood cancer and serious disorders are almost completely genetic (so you could blame the parents







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I really don't know what kind of health gurantees breeders are offering. What I would want is for 2 yrs (not replacement of a puppy) but just some kind of help with really major, clearly genetic causes -- such as luxating patellas. Its not even about the money, but I would just want the breeder to care and to do something about it - like not breed those 2 dogs together anymore!! I would never ask for stuff like UTIs, skin diseases, allergies or other ambigous things. But liver disorders and patellas are genetic, right? 

I know there are lots of people with maltese (as well as other breeds) who have luxating patellas and either the owner doesn't even know about it or is not willing to do anything about or whatever -- so its not a lethal thing.... but its something that really shouldn't be there and can probably be eliminated with testing. 

Okay...I am finally tired and should go to sleep


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