# Big Maltese.... is that bad????



## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

I thought I'd start this topic for our new member maltsmom because of her experience with another forum.









So the question is... if your maltese is above the standard, does that mean your breeder was a bad breeder??? 

Kodie is tooooo small.... I have been told from a vet that his breeder is a BADD breeder...









I would love to hear everyones views!


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Chelsey (Dec 17, 2004)

I don't think so... One turns out bigger and one turns our smaller.. How would a breeder know. I belive they do there best to have a show quallity dog and if not then they become pets. Don't quote me I'm no expert and have not experience in breeding.
But at least that is what our breeder has told us.. She is able to pick out of her litter whith one would be a show dog... I think that is so cool to have an eye like that.

Anyway i think Kodie is gorgeous.... My husban alway comment on his picture... so sweet.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole_@Feb 11 2005, 04:38 PM
> *This is just my opinion, but I don't believe having a small or large dog necessarily makes a bad breeder.  If the dog in question happens to be a "fluke of nature" and the other dogs in the litter were of reasonable size, then it is just an oddity of nature.  Now, in my opinion, what makes a bad breeder, is someone who purposely breeds two tiny dogs together, with no regard for the welfare of the mother or the pups, just to sell the litter as a "teacup," then yes, they are a bad breeder.  Same with someone who breeds two larger dogs--they are breeding outside of breed standards and producing dogs that are not of "quality," for lack of a better word.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=34899*


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I agree... sometimes an unusually small dog or large one can come out of a dam and sire who normally produce within standard... When I was looking for my 2nd Maltese, I spoke with one of the top breeders who had a little girl that would get no larger than 3 pounds... that is very small and below standard and I don't think there is anyone who thinks she is a bad breeder... and of course she isn't. Sometimes, these flukes happen. It is when it is done on purpose that the breeder could be considered "bad".


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## Lilly521 (May 29, 2004)

I dont think there are just good breeders and bad breeders lol lots and lots of levels of breeders! Like i think people who breed 2 champion dogs and end up with a litter that is almost all totally in standered puppies are awsome breeders, and i wish i could have affored a puppy from a breeder like that. On the other hand i think someone who takes 2 dogs dosnt bother making sure both dogs and nice and healthy just breedes some puppies is a pretty bad breeder, get what i mean? like my sunny didnt come from a super breeder and he is totatlly out of standered size wise, so were both his parents, but the women who was breeding the dog honestly cared about her dog and the puppies took the mom to the vet all the time making sure everyone was doing ok i think my sunny came from a _alright_ breeder


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lilly521_@Feb 11 2005, 07:46 PM
> *I dont think there are just good breeders and bad breeders lol lots and lots of levels of breeders!  Like i think people who breed 2 champion dogs and end up with a litter that is almost all totally in standered puppies are awsome breeders, and i wish i could have affored a puppy from a breeder like that.  On the other hand i think someone who takes 2 dogs dosnt bother making sure both dogs and nice and healthy just breedes some puppies is a pretty bad breeder, get what i mean? like my sunny didnt come from a super breeder and he is totatlly out of standered size wise, so were both his parents, but the women who was breeding the dog honestly cared about her dog and the puppies took the mom to the vet all the time making sure everyone was doing ok i think my sunny came from a alright breeder
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=34943*


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Very well said. To be so young, you sure do have a good head on your shoulders!


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

I think the standard is just a guideline. However, being smaller than the standard, I think, is not healthy. I think of "teacups" as premature babies. And even in humans, premature babies, as they grow, arent quite as healthy as if they werent premature.

I think breeders have alot of responsibility. I think a breeder should be ethical enough to choose the health of their dog to be their priority no matter the size. I think breeders should have a grasp of knowledge about genetics and the breed. The life of the dog is in their hands. If it's not something the buyer is expecting, where do you think they poor thing may go? The stinkin shelter! 

I also think that the parents (us) of the dogs should be given as much info on the breed as possible. I sorta resent my breeder for not telling me how to keep Cloud's knees as healthy as possible (like telling me to try not to let them go up and down the stairs for a yr). I found that out here.

Cloud is SUPPOSE to be 7 lbs or less but he's 11 lbs. *rolling my eyes* But I love him to death. I dont care about the standards though. I love Noriko to death, but I can squeeze Cloud more tightly because he's bigger. LOL I wouldnt change his size at all! I really love him this way. 

I'm just rambling. I just took 2 tests this week and I'm so pooped. I'm totally delirious. Who cares what I think? PUAHAHA


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## Laceys mom (Nov 12, 2004)

I have to agree...most breeders are trying to breed within the standard. Lacey is 8 pounds. My breeder told me that Lacey would be a larger maltese and if I wanted a little one then I should take Lacey's sister or brother. I said no way! Lacey is a wonderful little dog. Is she show quality? No, but she is beautiful and I couldn't have asked for a better baby. I would run as fast as I could from a breeder that is trying to breed tiny dogs. My breeder told me that she breeds and tries to get a show dog. If there are no show dogs then she sells them. She has wonderful dogs. Both of Lacey's parents are just beautiful and both are show dogs. You would think if both of the parents are show dogs and the grandparents are show you should get a puppy that is within the standard. Just goes to show you that you never know what is going to happen.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Breeders try very hard to breed within the ideal of the standard (4-6 lbs). Of course, genetics don't always like to work nicely. Most breeders do get to know their lines and how quickly their dogs mature so can give decent estimates of adult size (including dogs that will be oversize). 

Any breeder purposefully breeding undersized or oversized dogs I would find questionable. Teacup is a selling term. There is no such thing. Many undersized dogs have a myriad of health problems. 

Personally, I like a dog in the 6 lb range. I want my dog to have some substance. 

So, it all depends on the circumstances. Undersized and oversized dogs do happen, but there is a lot more to whether or not a breeder is reputable and responsible than just whether or not those sizes have been produced by them. Their motives are usually a good sign as to whether or not they are reputable.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

My "hobby" breeder had 4 dogs (2 males, 2 females). They were all 4 the same size. Alex was the last of one litter and the last to go. The breeder did not advertise him as a teacup. When I called she only said he is small. Alex was 10 weeks old. She had another litter 5 weeks old and she showed me the puppies to see the difference. At 5 weeks they were almost as big as Alex at 10. She asked me if I had kids and was happy when I said no. She was concerned because of his small size and kids. Fully grown, Alex stays between 5.8 and 6.0 lbs.


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## Lilly521 (May 29, 2004)

Thanks Kallie/Catcher's Mom! I just couldnt imagine putting every breeder who dosnt breed champion dogs into the 'bad breeder' catigory.



> Cloud is SUPPOSE to be 7 lbs or less but he's 11 lbs. *rolling my eyes* But I love him to death. I dont care about the standards though. I love Noriko to death, but I can squeeze Cloud more tightly because he's bigger. LOL I wouldnt change his size at all! I really love him this way.[/B]


One thing that made me feel ok about getting a big maltese is that it was made clear to me from the beginning not to expect a tiny dog, i love the size sunny is but if someone had told me he was gonna be around 7lbs i would proubly be a little disapointed (although still adore) my 10lbs baby


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

Just so everyone knows.. Kodie's breeder intentionally bred kodie's mom which was 3.5lbs with a male that was 2lbs. The result... a dead pup at birth... a girl pup that had many many health probs and died at 6months old... and kodie survived. He's 3.2lbs and going to be 2yrs old in april. He very very tiny boned 
(I was just at the breeders house last night and saw their little girl that was 4lbs and she isnt even as boney as kodie.) and has his own health issues because of the small breeding. 
Now with that bit of info... what does everyone think of my breeder? They were not worried about the health of the pups from what i see... occurring to our vet the lady just wanted tiny pups and didnt care or even think about the health concerns involved.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kodie_@Feb 11 2005, 11:00 PM
> *Just so everyone knows.. Kodie's breeder intentionally bred kodie's mom which was 3.5lbs with a male that was 2lbs.  The result... a dead pup at birth... a girl pup that had many many health probs and died at 6months old... and kodie survived.  He's 3.2lbs and going to be 2yrs old in april.  He very very tiny boned
> (I was just at the breeders house last night and saw their little girl that was 4lbs and she isnt even as boney as kodie.) and has his own health issues because of the small breeding.
> Now with that bit of info... what does everyone think of my breeder?  They were not worried about the health of the pups from what i see... occurring to our vet the lady just wanted tiny pups and didnt care or even think about the health concerns involved.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=34979*


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Oh my gosh!!!  You could almost say that breeding a 2 lb male and 3.5 lb. female is animal abuse.


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## lani (Sep 14, 2004)

I agree with Kallie/Catcher's Mom 100%. I too think breeding two small dogs that small is a total animal abuse.


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## Deanne3899 (Jan 8, 2005)

Xena is just the same as Lacey'sMom's dog! Both mom & dad were champion dogs & Xena did well until she finished growing -ending up at 8 lbs. Her breeder stopped showing her then. Xena had less than 5 lb pups, too (3-4 litters of one pup each). Good breeders have dogs that can be a bit above or below the standard, but they do tend to be healthier pups that are otherwise within standard, imo! That's genetics for you!

Kodie's breeder, imo, was not a good breeder to breed such small pups on purpose. I'm so glad Kodie is okay!

Deanne


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## 020202 (Jan 26, 2005)

> Their motives are usually a good sign as to whether or not they are reputable.[/B]


I have to agree with this statement. It's not the outcome so much as the intention that makes a good or bad breeder. While researching breeders I was told that if a breeder guarantees you the adult size of your maltese that you should avoid them because no reputable breeder will promise you an adult weight. To judge a breeder on the outcome of one puppy is like judging whether a parent of a handicapped child is a bad parent. I understand it's not the same thing, but genetics do play a large part. I feel my breeder was a good breeder because she was very helpful, she had guidelines who could adopt her puppies, she wasn't in it for the money and she clearly put her heart into her hobby. Does this make her a backyard breeder? Does it matter in this case? I don't think so.


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

I agree with everyone that breeders who purposely bred with disregard to the standard are not good breeders. Nature sometimes throws curves, but a good breeder should be able to address most issues in their lines. As pets, we should all love our dogs no matter what their backgrounds.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I will say that there are very few breeders who do not show that I consider reputable. Those that I do are older and retired from showing but sell to show homes where a representative sample of their breeding continues to be shown. Dog shows are about having numerous different opinions on how well the dog conforms to the standard. Even the top breeders show their dogs to ensure that they continue to breed to the standard. Not showing is usually an indication of a questionable breeder. The ONLY reason to breed is to IMPROVE the breed. If your dogs are not up to the standard then you can't do that and you certainly can't produce the standard. It isn't about being snooty...the standard is what makes a Maltese a Maltese! What drew us to them...their distinctive look and attitude.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Feb 12 2005, 03:43 PM
> *The ONLY reason to breed is to IMPROVE the breed. <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35049*


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Sorry Jackie but I don't agree with that statement. If the breeders would breed only for shows, they would not make much money. And not many people would be able to get a pet. If they would not have done all that inbreeding to so called "improve the breed", all those pure breed dogs would be healthier. I am not a fan of dog shows. I compare them to the child beauty pageants. They should not breed to "improve" the standard, they should breed to "improve" the HEALTH of the dog. Most people don't care if their pet is up to standard, all they want is a loving and healthy pet. How can the show people say they love their dogs when they raise them to go to shows so they can breed them and once they cannot breed them anylonger they give them away for a pet to somebody else ?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MalteseJane+Feb 12 2005, 11:47 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry Jackie but I don't agree with that statement. If the breeders would breed only for shows, they would not make much money. And not many people would be able to get a pet. If they would not have done all that inbreeding to so called "improve the breed", all those pure breed dogs would be healthier. I am not a fan of dog shows. I compare them to the child beauty pageants. They should not breed to "improve" the standard, they should breed to "improve" the HEALTH of the dog. Most people don't care if their pet is up to standard, all they want is a loving and healthy pet. How can the show people say they love their dogs when they raise them to go to shows so they can breed them and once they cannot breed them anylonger they give them away for a pet to somebody else ?
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Janine, too much inbreeding is a problem in mills, BYBs, and show breeders. There are some breeders who do way too much of it. To keep the genetic health of the breed, outcrosses are very important. How many BYBers have semen shipped across the country for a good outcross consider health, conformation, temperament, etc? I doubt any of them. 

Breeding to improve the breed does not only take into account the standard, but also temperament and health. The standard is set and it is what makes a Maltese a Maltese. If we throw that out the window, then there wouldn't be any purebred dogs at all. 

Some show people certainly are not the best. Showing itself does not equal a good breeder, but for me, not showing a representative sample of breeding stock is a big red light. Even show dogs who are sent out with handlers are loved and missed by their owners. However, the handlers they use are usually wonderful with the dogs and adore them. Most breeders are very attached to their dogs and they do end up keeping a number of their retired dogs and bitches at home. The ones they place are ones they feel would be happier as the only dog or maybe with only 1-2 other dogs. What do mills do when a bitch is done breeding? Auction her off or let her die...if they're nice, they euthanize her. 

I did not have a good impression of the "show world" until I started going to shows and got to know some good breeders. Sure, there are politics, but there are also judges who really know there stuff and will point out your dogs faults and strengths. Nothing is perfect, but at least making an attempt to utilize the tools available to produce a Maltese that holds the essential characteristics of the breed is important to me as a Maltese lover. I adored my first dog, a Maltese Bichon mix from a small mill, but I also love the Maltese look and she sure did not have that (large, curly-haired, prominent muzzle, flat top skull, long in the back). If a BYB doesn't learn about structure, genetics, etc. which is all part of showing dogs, then what will a Maltese look like in 30 years?


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM+Feb 13 2005, 11:48 AM-->
> 
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> 
> ...


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Janine, too much inbreeding is a problem in mills, BYBs, and show breeders. There are some breeders who do way too much of it. To keep the genetic health of the breed, outcrosses are very important. How many BYBers have semen shipped across the country for a good outcross consider health, conformation, temperament, etc? I doubt any of them. 

Breeding to improve the breed does not only take into account the standard, but also temperament and health. The standard is set and it is what makes a Maltese a Maltese. If we throw that out the window, then there wouldn't be any purebred dogs at all. 

Some show people certainly are not the best. Showing itself does not equal a good breeder, but for me, not showing a representative sample of breeding stock is a big red light. Even show dogs who are sent out with handlers are loved and missed by their owners. However, the handlers they use are usually wonderful with the dogs and adore them. Most breeders are very attached to their dogs and they do end up keeping a number of their retired dogs and bitches at home. The ones they place are ones they feel would be happier as the only dog or maybe with only 1-2 other dogs. What do mills do when a bitch is done breeding? Auction her off or let her die...if they're nice, they euthanize her. 

I did not have a good impression of the "show world" until I started going to shows and got to know some good breeders. Sure, there are politics, but there are also judges who really know there stuff and will point out your dogs faults and strengths. Nothing is perfect, but at least making an attempt to utilize the tools available to produce a Maltese that holds the essential characteristics of the breed is important to me as a Maltese lover. I adored my first dog, a Maltese Bichon mix from a small mill, but I also love the Maltese look and she sure did not have that (large, curly-haired, prominent muzzle, flat top skull, long in the back). If a BYB doesn't learn about structure, genetics, etc. which is all part of showing dogs, then what will a Maltese look like in 30 years?
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Jackie, I agree with you 1000%.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I think everyone who breeds Maltese should respect and breed for the standard. I read on "that other" Forum where someone said that she thought the standard for Maltese was changing, that they were becoming bigger, just as their coat color changed to all white over the years. 

That's a shame. Standards for breeds have changed over the years intentionally, to develop a dog more suited for it's intended purpose (hunting dogs, for instance), but should never change because uneducated people are breeding with no regard to maintaining the breed standard.

My Lady is big at 9 pounds. She's a pet shop/puppy mill dog so who knows what other breed was thrown in there at some point. Still, at her size she is still "believeable". When you get Maltese twice the standard at 12 & 13 pounds and bigger, I find it hard to believe that they are truly purebred.


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole_@Feb 11 2005, 03:38 PM
> *This is just my opinion, but I don't believe having a small or large dog necessarily makes a bad breeder.  If the dog in question happens to be a "fluke of nature" and the other dogs in the litter were of reasonable size, then it is just an oddity of nature.  Now, in my opinion, what makes a bad breeder, is someone who purposely breeds two tiny dogs together, with no regard for the welfare of the mother or the pups, just to sell the litter as a "teacup," then yes, they are a bad breeder.  Same with someone who breeds two larger dogs--they are breeding outside of breed standards and producing dogs that are not of "quality," for lack of a better word.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=34899*


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I agree


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

i think breeding for health should override breeding for standard...i'd rather a big healthy one then a normal looking sick one..but thats my opinion.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Feb 14 2005, 10:52 AM
> *i think breeding for health should override breeding for standard...i'd rather a big healthy  one then a normal looking sick one..but thats my opinion.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35250*


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I agree 100%! I do think a reputable breeder breeds for both the physical standard and to eliminate any potential for genetic faults, though.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Something to keep in mind: breeding to the standard is part of breeding a healthy dog, especially as far as bone structure goes. A dog with good rear angles that moves well has good knees. Also, a short, long dog is more likely to have back problems. A dog with a proper bite is less likely to have bad dental disease and need teeth pulled.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Feb 14 2005, 03:21 PM
> *A dog with a proper bite is less likely to have bad dental disease and need teeth pulled.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35344*


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I can relate to that... kodie's jaw isnt as great as it should be... the vet even told me that.. thats part of the reason why he had soo many baby teeth pulled and even if you look in his mouth now... his teeth in the back are not aligned.
My vet also saw kodie's sister before she passed away... and her jaw he told me was even worse... she couldnt eat properly or keep her tongue in her mouth.
This is another reason why I think in my opinion Kodie's mom should NOT have been breed with a male that tiny.


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## Lilly521 (May 29, 2004)

Like before the 60's wasnt the standered size for a maltese like 3lbs? i remember reading a really out of date book and the standered being something like that...shows that who ever makes the standered is conserned with creating a healthier dog


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Feb 14 2005, 09:52 AM
> *i think breeding for health should override breeding for standard...i'd rather a big healthy  one then a normal looking sick one..but thats my opinion.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35250*


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Very good point!


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Feb 14 2005, 07:54 AM
> *When you get Maltese twice the standard at 12 & 13 pounds and bigger, I find it hard to believe that they are truly purebred.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35215*


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Girl...believe it! LOL I think Cloud's 13 lbs. I dont think he's a mutt at all. There's always that uncertainty though.







He could afford to lose a lb or 2 though. I believe his breeder isn't a reputable breeder though...you guys know my issues. 

Health is always number 1 to me. I fell in love with Cloud's temperament and how he just wanted to love me when he saw me. So even if the breeder told me he'd be 13 lbs, I wouldn't care as long as she could have told me he's completely healthy. Unfortunately, that wasnt the case. But hey, you live and learn...no regrets







.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I didn't mean that "double sized" Maltese are mutts. They are technically purebreds. What I meant was I suspect a few Bichons have been mixed in at some point in their background. It's so common to try to get those larger females for breeding since they have easier preganancies and deliveries and produce more puppies.

I believe they suspected Siliski of mixing Westies in with her Maltese.

I know I've told you guys about my neighbor's Maltese puppy. They were on a waiting list for a puppy from a reputable breeder, but got tired of waitng so they got this puppy from a breeder "just starting out". 

She thought she was getting a puppy who would be no larger than 5 pounds full grown. Well, he was 4&1/2 pounds at 4 months when he was neutered. With his Elizabethan collar on after his surgery, I got a good look at his face and he looked just like a Westie with all that hair pulled back! 

He has personality plus and is a great little dog, but his Mom's none too pleased!


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

The standard did use to be smaller, but the dogs were still mostly in the 4-5 lb range LOL

My problem is that somebody purposefully breeding larger than the standard is doubtful to have the health or the well-being of the breed in mind. If they don't worry about the size standard, why would they worry about having proper rear angulation (good movement = good patellas) or corrrect facial structure (good bite = healthy teeth, no bulging eyes, etc.). For me, everything is tied together, health, structure, and temperament. You can't pick just one or you don't have a Maltese any more.


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## Lilly521 (May 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Feb 15 2005, 09:27 AM
> *The standard did use to be smaller, but the dogs were still mostly in the 4-5 lb range LOL
> 
> My problem is that somebody purposefully breeding larger than the standard is doubtful to have the health or the well-being of the breed in mind. If they don't worry about the size standard, why would they worry about having proper rear angulation (good movement = good patellas) or corrrect facial structure (good bite = healthy teeth, no bulging eyes, etc.). For me, everything is tied together, health, structure, and temperament. You can't pick just one or you don't have a Maltese any more.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35510*


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Ok so i was close lol, i made a post a long time ago about that book i read it was honestly crap i will see if i can find it.

_Found it _ Old maltese book

I do agree with you on all the stuff that a maltese should have is all important and like a have said on tons of othe posts a talked to lots a very reputable breeders before getting sunny, i just didnt have $2000-$3000 to drop for the price of a puppy







, i am sure i am missing some huge flaws other than his size in how he compares with the standered but sunny really does seem to be proportioned right, good bite (not gonna have to have any puppy teeth pulled out), and he seems to act just like all the other dogs on here, so i know its just luck with him but i am keeping my fingers crosses and doing everything i can to keep him healthy.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

The prices really threw me until I was around breeders who did it right and showed my own dog. When I wanted another dog and was quoted $3,000 I knew I would have to plan way ahead of time. It is a lot of money, but when my last puppy died in a freak accident, the breeder was on the phone with the vet right away and made sure everything was done so assure it was an accident and there was no health problem they needed to know about. Before that, we talked once a week and I sent a picture after the pup's bath once a week so they could see his progress. The other thing was we talked for over a year before I got a puppy. Even though I didn't have one of their dogs, they gave me grooming advice, talked to me about health issues and structure, etc. I think the relationship was well worth the price of the puppy. 

When I compare this to calling the small-time mill of my first Maltese to tell them she had epilepsy, it amazes me at the difference. Having sick dogs has really taught me how much a good breeder is worth. I would have loved to have a puppy right away the last 2 times I purchased one, but instead I saved and waited. It was worth it.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Feb 15 2005, 11:01 AM
> *The prices really threw me until I was around breeders who did it right and showed my own dog. When I wanted another dog and was quoted $3,000 I knew I would have to plan way ahead of time. It is a lot of money, but when my last puppy died in a freak accident, the breeder was on the phone with the vet right away and made sure everything was done so assure it was an accident and there was no health problem they needed to know about. Before that, we talked once a week and I sent a picture after the pup's bath once a week so they could see his progress. The other thing was we talked for over a year before I got a puppy. Even though I didn't have one of their dogs, they gave me grooming advice, talked to me about health issues and structure, etc. I think the relationship was well worth the price of the puppy.
> 
> When I compare this to calling the small-time mill of my first Maltese to tell them she had epilepsy, it amazes me at the difference. Having sick dogs has really taught me how much a good breeder is worth. I would have loved to have a puppy right away the last 2 times I purchased one, but instead I saved and waited. It was worth it.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35532*


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Well said, Jackie. Just looking at the drop-dead gorgeous Maltese show dogs in the video from Westminster in the link MsMagnolia provided, I could see what a "real" Maltese was supposed to look like and I have to say that it makes me sad to think that due to certain breeders, the physical characteristics that make this breed so special are being bred out. 

As most of you know, before I knew any better, I got my Kallie from a local couple who had bred their pets.... both parents came from pet stores.







Kallie is extremely far from the Maltese standard. She is big-boned, has no pigment around her eyes, just doesn't have that "Maltese look", etc. But I swear I would not trade her for the Malt that won the Grand Championship at Westminster. To me she is a beautiful girl in her own way and there is not a sweeter animal on this earth (just a little bias on my part lol). 

But, that said, it still is sad to see so many breeders who don't care about the standard and to think that these gorgeous creatures who we see as the standard may someday be no more...


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

"Having sick dogs has really taught me how much a good breeder is worth. "

Amen to that. Anyone who has spent thousands on a poorly bred Maltese and experienced the heartbreak of living with (or losing) a chronically ill dog has learned the hard way what I often say, "pay me now or pay me later".

As I have mentioned before that I spend $150 a month on Lady's medication and diabetic supplies alone - that's $1800 a year! Add that to vet bills of about $1000 two years in a row (last year was a good year - only about 1/2 that and they were check up/test type things).

I am fortunate my kids are grown and I don't have to choose between health care for them or my dog or have student loans to pay off, etc. Still, I really feel the pinch. I have been on a payment plan with my vet several times in the past few years. 

How many people on this Forum have already discovered their puppies have inherited a disorder like luxating patellas or liver disease and contacted their breeders, only to find out there is no support there, especially financial?


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Feb 15 2005, 11:44 AM
> *How many people on this Forum have already discovered their puppies have  inherited a disorder like luxating patellas or liver disease and contacted their breeders, only to find out there is no support there, especially financial?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35553*


[/QUOTE]
My breeder thinks i'm crazy







... she cant speak very good english (so its hard to explain things) and she says kodie is healthy. I do agree.. he appears healthy... but his blood count does not. She never even heard of MVD or a shunt before... and when i told her about his liver count being so high... she said she never tested kodie's mother... which i find hard to believe.. because she goes to the same vet Kodie goes to now and they always suggest blood tests there! Bottom line... she just doesnt understand what i'm tryin to tell her is his wrong with kodie. 
They are very nice people too... so i feel bad to keep bring it up to her because kodie does appear to be healthy. I think maybe they are the type of people that the dog is healthy unless they act sick....







(doesnt matter what a blood tests says, unless the dog is acting sick)


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## maltsmom (Feb 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kodie_@Feb 11 2005, 04:19 PM
> *I thought I'd start this topic for our new member maltsmom because of her experience with another forum.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Thanks for thinking of me. Maybe that other site thinks they goofed by having my breeder on their list. That's why they wouldn't print it. Your Kodie is absolutely beautiful. I don't think there is anything wrong with being above or below standard in size. Maybe the standard for showing is as it is, however, just like puppies, people are not all standard. How many of us could fit the standard for a beauty pageant. Does that mean we should not have been born? Does that mean our parents should not have gotten together because the combination of the two of them would produce a substandard child? I think breeders are what they are, breeders. If they knowingly breed a pup with a serious defect, then they are just in it for the money. But nature being what it is, anything can happen and it often does. No one can predict what the outcome will be. I know I am long winded, but sometimes when I get on my soapbox, I can't get off. Glad to be here!


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## Lilly521 (May 29, 2004)

When i was like 6 i got a peke who came from a pet store (my aunts frined bought him that relized a dog is work so we ended up with him) he was the most out of standard dog, Biscuit ended up weighing around 40lbs (standard says no more than 13lbs) his teeth were awful, he has a 'stang lump' on the top of his head, lost sight in one eye at 2 years when totatlly blind at 6 years, his eyes interneraly exploded at 7 for him to survive he would have had to have both eyes remove pretty much need 24 7 supervision...not something i could do at that age and not something my parents had time for so we had him but to sleep, now i might consider calling a breed resuce and seeing if they thought he might be adoptiable but at the time i thought we were doing the right thing.......also he was just a mean fella lol i will always try and remember him as a sweet dog but he really wasnt he coudlnt stand people and snapped at everyone.

He is under a year in these photos so i still looks healthy but you can see how little he looks like how he should expecially his eyesAKC peke


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Lilly, thanks for sharing your experience with your Peke. I try to get the same message out there that poorly bred dogs often don't start having health problems for many years so it's easy to believe in the first few years that you have lucked out and gotten a healthy puppy from a pet shop or puppy mill.

But if they inherited diseases because their breeder did not do any genetic screening, those time bombs do go off.

Did you know that an epilepsy starts bewteen age 1 and 4 years? And diabetes usually doesn't begin until a dog is much older, after age 5?

My Lady started having seizures at age 4&1/2 and was dx with diabetes at age 6. She was a perfectly healthy dog up until then.

I also can't stress enough how important it is for those of you who unknowingly purchased a pet store or puppy mill dog to start putting money away for any health problems that may arise down the line. It can run thousands. Most pet insurance will not cover genetic disorders so you can't depend on it.

I have heard that a good rule of thumb when you purchase a Maltese is to open a bank account with the same amount of $$ as the purchase price - and then continue to add to it.


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## Lilly521 (May 29, 2004)

Yeah when he lost his sight we didnt think it was that big a deal, a bit of am inconvenice and we couldnt move the furnature around but not so bad, we had no idea we was developing gulcoma didnt know until the very end what was going on the whole experince made me kinda obsessive about keeping making sure nothing seems ususal with my pets,i must have taken loki to the vet 50 times only for them to say there is nothing wrong with him lol


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Since most diabetic dogs go blind, I have that hanging over my head with Lady, (although most lose their sight in the first 7 or 8 months and it's been over 3 years with diabetes so hopefully we'll be lucky). I have also her eyes examined recently, a glaucoma test done, and so far, no sign of any problems.

I belong to a diabetic pet forum and most people report that once their dogs adjust to their blindness, they adapt very well as long as they don't move the furniture, as you say. One dog still jogs with his owner - just on a leash tied to her waist!

How long did your Peke live? 

It's good to be paranoid about their health. Little problems can turn into big ones quickly. I am obsessive/compulsive about Lady's health, even learned to check her blood sugar myself, but it has paid off so far. She will be 10 this year which is pretty amazing for a dog with so many serious health issues.

I also have 2 fabulous vets who have made all the difference.


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## Lilly521 (May 29, 2004)

My peke only made it to 7 which is very short for that breed, like maltese and most little dogs when they are healthy they live a long time. He did fine when he was just blind though, you just had to make some noise before you touched him or he would freak out and snap. when we had him we had a pool so my biggest worry was always that he would fall in and not be able to find the steps, so as much as he hated the water we dragged him in there so many times to show him how to find the steps and he did eventully fall in and he did find his way out







.....so even if Lady does go blind its not the worse thing to deal with, might change her personality a tiny bit but since she proubly has a strong bond with you (i mean you give he all those meds she totatlly depends on you) that she will proubly always be sweet with you. Thats great she is 10 now even for a perfectly healthy dog thats a pretty good life, my step-grandmother (i guess thats what she would be lol i just call her linda) has a 16 year old cat with diabities and i am always amazed how much time she spends on the cat's medical care, the cat she had before casey have liver proublems and she used to give him an iv twice a week.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Or if you have a Mikey, get a home equity loan!!!

I have to sit down and do my taxes...I really do not want to figure out how much I spent on vet bills. 2003 was $10,000. On average I spend about $400/month if Mikey is doing well between his meds, bloodwork, urinalysis. I'm blessed I don't pay for exams or office visits with his regular vet. He really is the million dollar Maltese.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Feb 16 2005, 10:42 AM
> *Or if you have a Mikey, get a home equity loan!!!
> 
> I have to sit down and do my taxes...I really do not want to figure out how much I spent on vet bills. 2003 was $10,000. On average I spend about $400/month if Mikey is doing well between his meds, bloodwork, urinalysis. I'm blessed I don't pay for exams or office visits with his regular vet. He really is the million dollar Maltese.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35843*


[/QUOTE]

Have you figured out how to deduct Mikey's expenses on your taxes yet? 

I am flabbergasted at your vet bills! Makes what I spend on Lady seem like peanuts.

What kind of urinalysis does Mikey get done? I buy those reagent strips that test for 10 parameters and home test Lady weekly, then follow up with her vet if I need to. I paid $29.25 for 100 strips and it's $20 alone for the urine test at my vets.

I also get my glucose meter strips on Ebay and pay $25 for 50 instead of $45 plus retail.

I get Walmart's brand of Novolin insulin (marketd by Novolin, but sold under their ReliOn brand) and save about $10 a bottle on her insulin. Their syringes are 1/2 what the brand name is.

I have become pretty skilled keeping Lady's medical expenses as low as possible without compromising quality. Some of her meds are cheapest through my vet, but many I have my vet write me prescriptions for and fill them elsewhere. 

I pay $38 for 100 potassium bromide capsules from a wonderful compounding pharmacy out in Wisconsin that was recommended on the canine epilepsy website. Through my vet, 60 pills are $32. (And that was the lower dose she was on years ago. The 225 mg might be much more)

With all this I still spend about $150 a month on her meds and diabetic supplies, but at least it's not $400!


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Feb 16 2005, 10:42 AM
> *Or if you have a Mikey, get a home equity loan!!!
> 
> I have to sit down and do my taxes...I really do not want to figure out how much I spent on vet bills. 2003 was $10,000. On average I spend about $400/month if Mikey is doing well between his meds, bloodwork, urinalysis. I'm blessed I don't pay for exams or office visits with his regular vet. He really is the million dollar Maltese.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35843*


[/QUOTE]


 Unbelievable!!! Mikey is the kind of dog that would have ended up in a shelter with most owners...I couldn't afford 10,000 a year in vet bills!!! That is unreal!!!! You are blessed you are able to do that for him, and he is blessed to have you!


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

very blessed! I wouldnt wanna see him put down cause no one can take care of him.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I don't know about a shelter, but I know that many dogs with Mikey's (or Lady's, for that matter) health issues end up being euthanized because their owners simply can't afford their vet bills.

When I was given the estimate of about $1,000 for hospitalization and treatment when Lady was first diagnosed with diabetes, I can't tell you how many well meaning freinds and relatives pointed out that I could get a Maltese puppy for that and suggested I just have her put to sleep and "start over".

I am by no means rich, but fortunately my vet works with me on payment plans if necessary and I penny pinch like crazy. I give up a lot, but to me it's worth every penny to see her doing so well.


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Feb 16 2005, 11:49 AM
> *I don't know about a shelter, but I know that many dogs with Mikey's (or Lady's, for that matter) health issues end up being euthanized because their owners simply can't afford their vet bills.
> 
> When I was given the estimate of about $1,000 for hospitalization and treatment when Lady was first diagnosed with diabetes, I can't tell you how many well meaning freinds and relatives pointed out that I could get a Maltese puppy for that and suggested I just have her put to sleep and "start over".
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Peanut is my first dog and I can tell you a year ago I would have been one who told you to just 'start over'. I love this SM and now I know how these little ones reach so deep in our hearts. There are so many lucky dogs on this board!!!! You guys are all so great!!!


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## Brit'sMom (Aug 18, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko+Feb 14 2005, 10:58 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Girl...believe it! LOL I think Cloud's 13 lbs. I dont think he's a mutt at all. There's always that uncertainty though.







He could afford to lose a lb or 2 though. I believe his breeder isn't a reputable breeder though...you guys know my issues. 

Health is always number 1 to me. I fell in love with Cloud's temperament and how he just wanted to love me when he saw me. So even if the breeder told me he'd be 13 lbs, I wouldn't care as long as she could have told me he's completely healthy. Unfortunately, that wasnt the case. But hey, you live and learn...no regrets







.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35458
[/B][/QUOTE]

Your dogs parents may have had some bichon or poodle in them, it doesn't have to mean that your dog is half and half, he may be a quarter this or that

But as long as you are happy WE ARE HAPPY







!!!

I think my Brit is pretty standard, she is AKC registered (if that means anything) about 4 pounds, vet says she may get to 5 when she is done, all white, black points, correct teeth alignment, silky hair, and her breeder was not a show breeder. Everytime I go to a dog or maltese event people ask me if she is a show dog. My breeder was a good breeder to me, she loved the pups, she still contacts me and its been over 7 months, and she bred dogs that she worked hard to obtain. Dogs that she believed were healthy and standard Maltese. 

But she doesn't even have a website! There are numerous ways to look at this. I think a good breeder will balance the focus on breeding to better the breed AND breeding healthy QUALITY dogs.

The End


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Mikey has to be catheterized of have an ultrasound-guided cysto to get a urine sample. We really look at his sediment, not so much what is on the strip. He gets UTIs but always has bloody urine and urinates frequently so we just check it routinely. 

His meds have to be compounded and that makes it a lot more expensive. You can't get prilosec for a 5 lb dog or his azathioprine or prednisolone (only prednisone comes in a readily available prescription liquid), etc. 

I work for my dog LOL


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Feb 16 2005, 04:22 PM
> *Mikey has to be catheterized of have an ultrasound-guided cysto to get a urine sample. We really look at his sediment, not so much what is on the strip. He gets UTIs but always has bloody urine and urinates frequently so we just check it routinely.
> 
> His meds have to be compounded and that makes it a lot more expensive. You can't get prilosec for a 5 lb dog or his azathioprine or prednisolone (only prednisone comes in a readily available prescription liquid), etc.
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Jackie, can't you get a sample when he "goes" naturally to avoid all the trauma of the catherization, etc.?


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

a catheterized sample is a much better sample than one that is "caught" mid stream. u can get more bacteria and other contaminants and can mess up the sample and cause misinterpretation. unfortunately most vets are lazy and do it the easy way.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

My dog's liver problems could have been prevented if testing was done. 

Mikey will not let you catch a sample on him. Rarely I can trick him. He just looks at you and won't pee LOL


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

OMG! I was at the mall with kodie last night and I met this lady that also had a maltese... her baby was 10lbs! and she had a friend/relative that had a maltese that was 30lbs!!!! (The 30lbs maltese lives in Texas... what kind of breeding are they doing down there!?!?!







) She said it is full bred and has all the paperwork to prove it... it is over weight but its really big.
She couldnt get over how tiny kodie was... even her baby is 10lbs and she said hes SOLID.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

SURELY NOT 30 POUNDS!!!!  That is impossible!!!!??????


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

She either had to be mistaken on the breed or there was to be bichon or something in there someplace. I've heard of 15lbs maltes but there is no way a maltese can get to 30lbs! My god if even if it was a large size maltese (13lbs) but was just really over weight there is no way it could be that large.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Papers are only as good as the person who gives them to you...


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

I have seen this one maltese.. its my mom's friend's sister in law and she has a maltese too... its huge! It prob around 20lbs! The body was as big as my beagle we had... and she was solid ... not boney at all... over weight.
My question is... is it possible that these pups are from a pet store and were bred big?


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Feb 17 2005, 10:56 AM
> *Papers are only as good as the person who gives them to you...
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36069*


[/QUOTE]
soooo the papers you get when you buy a pup mean nothing even if they are registered?


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

Makes me wonder what else was in it's blood...30 pounds is large even if it was mixed with bichon or shih tzu...crazy!!!!


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

That is definately a possibility. Many pet stores and BYBers breed larger dogs because it is easier (less tendency for c-section) and they produce larger pups. Not only can you selectively breed Maltese to be larger, but it is very common to mix in Bichon or Westie to add size. Of course, these breeders are not starting with dogs that fit the standard in the first place (Maltese or what they may mix in), so it is not suprising that they move further and further away from it. 

My first dog was sold as a Maltese with papers. As an adult, it was very obvious she had Bichon in her. Then the papers were revoked when AKC found our her breeder was fradulent (it was a small mill). She weighed about 15 lbs and had wavy/curly hair on her body. She was adorable, but also had epilepsy and died from GME at age 3.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Feb 16 2005, 11:11 PM
> *Mikey will not let you catch a sample on him. Rarely I can trick him. He just looks at you and won't pee LOL
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36016*


[/QUOTE]

It is a little easier with the girls, I think! I just use a dry measuring cup with the handle and slide it under Lady when she starts to go. 

I can't believe you have to get so many of Mikey's meds compounded. That's where the $$$ is for sure, like Lady's KBr. Fortunately, the only other expensive one is her Zyrtec (she can't take any sedating antihistamines because of her seizure drugs). I can get a prescription form my doctor for me (he thinks!), but I still have a $40 co-pay.

I also work for Lady. I will never be able to retire!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Feb 16 2005, 11:11 PM
> *My dog's liver problems could have been prevented if testing was done.
> 
> Mikey will not let you catch a sample on him. Rarely I can trick him. He just looks at you and won't pee LOL
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36016*


[/QUOTE]
Here's what I used to do with Rosebud, as she had all sorts of urinary, bladder problems and I was always needing a sample and didn't want her to go through having the vet get one. 

Since she went on paper, I would stand "at the ready" with a syringe like you use to give injections except there was no needle in it. I would then "suck up" the urine with the syringe. If you use pads, you could turn them over to the plastic side when you're wanting to get a sample. The urine sits on top of the plastic and it is very easy to collect in the syringe.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Feb 17 2005, 11:09 AM
> *That is definately a possibility. Many pet stores and BYBers breed larger dogs because it is easier (less tendency for c-section) and they produce larger pups. Not only can you selectively breed Maltese to be larger, but it is very common to mix in Bichon or Westie to add size. Of course, these breeders are not starting with dogs that fit the standard in the first place (Maltese or what they may mix in), so it is not suprising that they move further and further away from it.
> 
> My first dog was sold as a Maltese with papers. As an adult, it was very obvious she had Bichon in her. Then the papers were revoked when AKC found our her breeder was fradulent (it was a small mill). She weighed about 15 lbs and had wavy/curly hair on her body. She was adorable, but also had epilepsy and died from GME at age 3.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36078*


[/QUOTE]

Jackie, I had no idea Mika (that was her name, right?) was so young when she died. I knew she was epileptic like my Lady, but didn't know she had GME, too. Were the seizures related?

You certainly have had amazingly bad luck with the health of your Maltese, haven't you?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Feb 17 2005, 01:54 PM
> *Jackie, I had no idea Mika (that was her name, right?) was so young when she died. I knew she was epileptic like my Lady, but didn't know she had GME, too. Were the seizures related?
> 
> You certainly have had amazingly bad luck with the health of your Maltese, haven't you?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36101*


[/QUOTE]

Marj, basically if it can go wrong, my dogs get it LOL The epilepsy was separate from the GME...

Mikey knows if you have anything to get a urine sample and he will not go. He is very wise on this. As for the pads, Mikey is very PU/PD and if he peed on the plastic side it would be all over his coat and all over everything else. He is very good for the vet getting his sample so we stick with that. 

On Registration Papers: One of the reasons AKC implemented DNA for popular sires was that people were lying about the sires. Of course, it is great when an honest ooops happens, but mainly it was to combat fraudulent papers. A large number of those suspended from AKC priveleges are from falsifying papers.


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## maltlover (Feb 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kodie_@Feb 11 2005, 01:19 PM
> *I thought I'd start this topic for our new member maltsmom because of her experience with another forum.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


How many pounds is Kodie ? Im sorry i cant answer, i wouldnt know


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## Maxismom (Mar 24, 2004)

I don't think that means anything Maxi is longer than alot of malteses i have seen
but he has all his black points he has a flawless face







he has a great personality
and he is a solid 9lbs so i wouldnt believe everything people say as long as they are healthy thats all that matters


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maltlover+Feb 24 2005, 09:47 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How many pounds is Kodie ? Im sorry i cant answer, i wouldnt know








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=37597
[/B][/QUOTE]
hes 3.2lbs full grown.


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## Harleysmom (Jan 26, 2005)

I just found out the other day Harley's mom was 9lbs & his dad was 10lbs.....so looks as though he will be on the larger side too. Oh well. He is almost 6 mths and weighs 71/2 lbs.


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## Sylphide and Shrek's Mom (Dec 4, 2004)

I'm sure I've posted this before but: Sylphide weighs 9.5 lbs even though both her parents were in the 5 lb range. She almost quadrupled her weight at 12 weeks (rather than doubling it at maturity, which is the norm). I do have to say that she has been extraordinarily healthy so far, as is Shrek, who is also large...our vet was very, very impressed by his overall health.


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

Caesar is 8.5-9lbs.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MomtwoMaltmuffins_@Feb 26 2005, 02:54 AM
> *Digby gained a bit  the scales said she was 11 lbs LOL maybe part of that was her harness and her guardian angel tag - the tag weighs probably a few ounces.  I would like to get her back to 10 lbs where she normally is.
> 
> So far she has been healthy, excpet for her a couple of soft spots on her trachea.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Marilyn, Your question was intriguing so I looked it up in my book, _The Complete Maltese _by Nicholas Cutillo, Howell Book House, 1989, First Edition, Second Printing. Here are some interesting passages:

Page 21: "E. Topsel, in 1607, described the Maltese of his day as being about a foot long, the smaller and more delicate the more precious. To achieve that end, it is reported, the bodies of the dogs were confined, to prevent natural growth and development. Their diets were also restricted for the same purpose. The same practices were being employed in the east, with the same results in mind."

Page 24: ".... The French naturalist Buffon included the Maltese in his Book of Natural History, published in 1777. .... He noticed in his text that the Maltese had become quite rare at that time. He even had to rely upon an engraving of the dog he found in the King's library to sketch from in order to illustrate his book. He described the dog as being small. It was so small, in fact, that it had become fashionable for ladies to carry the Maltese in their sleeves. Because of his size and weight, this could be done with ease."

Page 29: "Because of the great rarity of the breed at the time, a Maltese dog and bitch were purchased for Queen Victoria of England in Manila, the Philippines, in 1841. An account of this transaction was recorded by Richardson and following is part of what he published with regard to these Maltese in 1859: .....Psyche, a descendant from Captain Lukey's Cupid and Psyche, is now [1859] 20 months old, pure white, 3-1/4 pounds, measures in length of hair across the shoulders 15" and when it her gambols presents in appearance a ball of animated floss silk, her tail falling on her back like spun glass."

Page 30: "Some other gleanings from the writings of Richardson pertinent to the Maltese are as follows: The dog should not exceed five pounds in weight, although some good specimens have weighed as much as 6-1/2 pounds......"


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MomtwoMaltmuffins_@Feb 26 2005, 10:50 AM
> *Thanks Sher that is interesting to see back in the 1600 and 1800 that the Maltese were small.
> 
> So maybe later they were bred with Bichons? to increase their size hence the bigger Maltese above 7 lbs. ?
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I have heard of unscrupulous breeders mixing them with Bichons so they'll be bigger. But also, I would imagine if there is a larger Malt in a litter the breeder would then breed it with a larger Malt in another litter, etc. I had always thought that is how they got the miniature versions of some breeds like Doxie's, Schnauzer, etc. [breed small dogs to each other...]


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

K/C's mom that was really interesting. I want to read more about the history of these little guys now. Thanks for sharing that!!

The vet also subtracted a couple of ounces from Peanut's weight because he was wearing his tags. I wish I could take off my jewlery and lose a couple of pounds!!!


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## Chelsey (Dec 17, 2004)

Chelsey is alreay 5-6 pounds at 6 month . The breeder did tell me that she will be on the bigger size. There were others from her litter that were smaller but she was so sweet...







I told the breeder what I was looking for and she picked her out for me.

I think those malese a long time ago had to be very small to be in ladies sleves, but then again in that time there sleves were very big and poofy.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Chelsey_@Feb 27 2005, 10:02 AM
> *Chelsey is alreay 5-6 pounds at 6 month .  The breeder did tell me that she will be on the bigger size.  There were others from her litter that were smaller but she was so sweet...
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Yep their sleeves were probably big and poofy, but I still can't imagine them carrying a 10-pounder in their sleeves...









Seems like they were quite small way back when... then uncrupulous breeders saw that they could get more puppies out of a larger Malt and the rest is history!

I wanted a larger one, too. Kallie, who just lost a little weight due to needing to, is now at 9 pounds. My breeder would not sell me a tiny one due to Kallie being larger. Catcher is 7 pounds now at 9 months. He is a good size to play with Kallie and yet I like that he is a little lighter... easier for me to carry two at the same time... amazing what a difference just a couple pounds makes.....


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## Chelsey (Dec 17, 2004)

yeah 10 pound in one sleve you would be lop sided.
and just think if they pooped in there... ewwew.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Chelsey_@Feb 27 2005, 10:45 AM
> *yeah 10 pound in one sleve you would be lop sided.
> and just think if they pooped in there... ewwew.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=38119*


[/QUOTE]


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## Laceys mom (Nov 12, 2004)

Lacey is what is consider a big maltese. She weighs 8.2 pounds. She was at the vets on Friday...checking those ears again, and the vet told me she could lose a little bit of weight. Now she is doing good on the weight lost...she did weigh a little over 9 pounds when I took her to the vet 3 weeks ago. Hubby had been feeding her alot of his food when he was eating. I think Lacey looks great at the weight she is at but the vet would like to see her at 7.5 pounds. It is amazing how much weight she has lost in 3 weeks but she hasn't had anything but her dry kibble, she isn't happy about that but the vet said she is very healthly and she has lots of energy. My point is that even though Lacey is a little over 8 pounds she is just a beautiful little maltese, to me. As long as your little one is healthly and happy don't worry about the weight. Lacey could be 15 pounds and as long as she was happy and healthly I wouldn't care.


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## Sylphide and Shrek's Mom (Dec 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom_@Feb 26 2005, 11:57 AM
> *I have heard of unscrupulous breeders mixing them with Bichons so they'll be bigger. But also, I would imagine if there is a larger Malt in a litter the breeder would then breed it with a larger Malt in another litter, etc. I had always thought that is how they got the miniature versions of some breeds like Doxie's, Schnauzer, etc. [breed small dogs to each other...]
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=37958*


[/QUOTE]

You know, when Sylphide started growing bigger, I wondered: hmmmmm, could she possibly have some Bichon in there? Even though, of course, she is by registration a purebred Maltese. And she really, really looks very Maltese...a perfect Maltese, just bigger. As for Shrek, I saw both parents. His dad is a small Maltese, his mom larger. Both also look very "Maltese", although his mom and Shrek both have a slightly longer muzzle than Sylphide. No sign of Bichon there. Perhaps there may be Bichon much further back in the ancestry...


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Laceys mom_@Feb 27 2005, 11:51 AM
> *Lacey is what is consider a big maltese.  She weighs 8.2 pounds.  She was at the vets on Friday...checking those ears again, and the vet told me she could lose a little bit of weight.  Now she is doing good on the weight lost...she did weigh a little over 9 pounds when I took her to the vet 3 weeks ago.  Hubby had been feeding her alot of his food when he was eating.  I think Lacey looks great at the weight she is at but the vet would like to see her at 7.5 pounds.  It is amazing how much weight she has lost in 3 weeks but she hasn't had anything but her dry kibble, she isn't happy about that but the vet said she is very healthly and she has lots of energy.  My point is that even though Lacey is a little over 8 pounds she is just a beautiful little maltese, to me.  As long as your little one is healthly and happy don't worry about the weight.  Lacey could be 15 pounds and as long as she was happy and healthly I wouldn't care.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=38136*


[/QUOTE]

The most important thing is that our babies are at the proper weight for their frame, etc. Overweight dogs can be prone to joint problems and diabetes, and probably other diseases, as well. If they are big, that is one thing and that is fine. You just don't want them to be clinically overweight.


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## Lilly521 (May 29, 2004)

I think some really old documentation on maltese makes them sound like the size of squirles or something like that (its proubly an exageration but they were tity bity) but like a long time ago maltese wernt the healthiest dogs becuase they made them sooooo tiny, the standard now is perfectly healthy for them but i think thats why they orignally made them bigger (if you want to call 4lbs bigger lol) the huge ones like my sunny (10lbs) came from breeders breeding bigger dogs becuase it was easier but i am pretty sure the size increase up to the standerd we have now was intentional


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## Sylphide and Shrek's Mom (Dec 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lilly521_@Feb 27 2005, 01:57 PM
> *I think some really old documentation on maltese makes them sound like the size of squirles or something like that (its proubly an exageration but they were tity bity) but like a long time ago maltese wernt the healthiest dogs becuase they made them sooooo tiny, the standard now is perfectly healthy for them but i think thats why they orignally made them bigger (if you want to call 4lbs bigger lol) the huge ones like my sunny (10lbs) came from breeders breeding bigger dogs becuase it was easier but i am pretty sure the size increase up to the standerd we have now was intentional
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=38161*


[/QUOTE]

Something to consider on standards and size is that the Maltese standard in Europe goes up to 4 kg (8.8 ilbs).


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SylphidesMom+Feb 27 2005, 01:17 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Something to consider on standards and size is that the Maltese standard in Europe goes up to 4 kg (8.8 ilbs).
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=38164
[/B][/QUOTE]

OMG... I didn't realize that... well Kallie is almost in standard, then... as long as we're on the other side of the pond!


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## Sylphide and Shrek's Mom (Dec 4, 2004)

> Something to consider on standards and size is that the Maltese standard in Europe goes up to 4 kg (8.8 ilbs).
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=38164


OMG... I didn't realize that... well Kallie is almost in standard, then... as long as we're on the other side of the pond!








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=38181
[/QUOTE]

Here's a French site listing the standard: Maltese Standard FCI

The very last line at the bottom of the page lists the weight range. _Poids_ is French for weight.


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## maltsmom (Feb 10, 2005)

It's me, Malt's Mom again. Jack is now one year old. Guess what? I took Jack to the vet yesterday because his knee kept going out and he weighs 18 pounds. He is not fat. If he lost a pound or two, he you would feel his ribs. Can you believe it. I love jack dearly. But what if I wanted to show him, I couldn't. I think my breeder was shady. And I bought the list off that other web site. I jsut wonder how breeders get on that this anyway. for all of you out there that really realy want a maltese standard pup, be very careful. 

Please don't get me wrong, Jack is my baby boy and I love him. I would never trade him for the world.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Wow. You got an 18 pounder from a breeder off the so-called MO approved list?

I know many unscrupulous breeders will mix Maltese with Bichon or Westie and produce larger dogs, but I thought the breeders on that list were supposed to be reputable.

Jack is beautful no matter what his size. I have seen some funny looking "purebred" Maltese where it is very obvious that there was another breed thrown in somewhere (most times it's the curlier coat), but it's certainly not obvious with Jack. 

If Maltese were sold by the pound, think of the deal you got!


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> It's me, Malt's Mom again. Jack is now one year old. Guess what? I took Jack to the vet yesterday because his knee kept going out and he weighs 18 pounds. He is not fat. If he lost a pound or two, he you would feel his ribs. Can you believe it. I love jack dearly. But what if I wanted to show him, I couldn't. I think my breeder was shady. And I bought the list off that other web site. I jsut wonder how breeders get on that this anyway. for all of you out there that really realy want a maltese standard pup, be very careful.
> 
> That list you are referring to was composed, by the author's report, by taking informaiton off the internet, referrals, etc. It does not say any were checked out before they were added. Once, I tried to post some known facts about people I knew who were on the list--two who had big barns of dogs, and another who had nine litters ready at one time and sold hers on the side of the road. I got my hand slapped for saying it. I was told I should submit pictures, etc. for proof. I had no intention of going to those folks, and I sure couldn't with a camera. I'm sure there are people who have complaints about that list, but it just doesn't make the posts.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

It's a shame people paid for that list when they can download a breeder list for free from the American Maltese Association's website.

Of course, without actually visiting the various breeders, you really never know for certain what the facilities are like.


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

When we were searching for a malt, I did not use the MO list because the AMA publishes it's list free of charge, as does the NJ Federation of Dog Clubs. Between those two resources, I was able to find a wonderful breeder. For me there was really no need to spend the few dollars on the MO list.


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## rubyjeansmom (Jan 6, 2005)

I wish I would have known about the AMA list-I did buy the list from the MO site and it didn't help me AT ALL and I was very frustrated. Oh well it all worked out because we found Ruby Jean and alls well that ends well right?


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## maltsmom (Feb 10, 2005)

Even though Jack is not really fat, I am still cutting back on his calories and fat because he has luxating patellas on his back legs. If he loses a few, it will be better for his knees. I am trying to avoid surgery. It's so hard to look at those eyes and not give him a treat. I am going to have to be very strong.


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maltsmom_@Mar 8 2005, 02:26 PM
> *Even though Jack is not really fat, I am still cutting back on his calories and fat because he has luxating patellas on his back legs.  If he loses a few, it will be better for his knees.  I am trying to avoid surgery.  It's so hard to look at those eyes and not give him a treat.  I am going to have to be very strong.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

My ButterCloud is in the same boat as you. He's not gigantuous but he can stand to lose a couple lbs because of his luxating patellas. If you absolutely find it extremely tough not giving them treats, try giving them veggies. I give my babies carrots! They are freaks about it! They will do anything for it







.


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## Lilly521 (May 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Mar 8 2005, 09:31 AM
> *If Maltese were sold by the pound, think of the deal you got!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=41079*


[/QUOTE]

Sometimes when people are bugging me about how much bigger Sunny is than other maltese they have seen i tell them he was economy size.


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lilly521+Mar 8 2005, 04:29 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sometimes when people are bugging me about how much bigger Sunny is than other maltese they have seen i tell them he was economy size.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=41204
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's funny! There is just more of Sunny to love!


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## TheButtercup (Mar 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by maltsmom_@Mar 8 2005, 09:02 AM
> *It's me, Malt's Mom again.  Jack is now one year old.  Guess what?  I took Jack to the vet yesterday because his knee kept going out and he weighs 18 pounds.  He is not fat.  If he lost a pound or two, he you would feel his ribs.  Can you believe it.  I love jack dearly. ...
> 
> Please don't get me wrong, Jack is my baby boy and I love him.  I would never trade him for the world.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

and looking at his mug...i dont blame you! he has such lovey eyes! the buttercup is also "larger", but she's longer (some even say taller, but i dont think so) and is pretty fine-boned. she ranges from 8.5-10lbs at any given checkup or scale. our vet in atlanta once said "if she loses about half a pound..she'll be just right for her frame..." i said "wow. if MY doctor told me to lose half a pound...i'd say 'heck, i'll be back in twenty minutes!'..." lolol

i am so glad to see so many of us with "larger than standard" babies embrace the larger size and love them for their personalities and dispositions. it's so disheartening to hear someone say "wow, your maltese is huge...i didnt realize they got SO BIG...." or say "i really wanted a tiny dog...and now my baby is THREE POUNDS....why is she so BIG??!?!", isnt it? makes you wonder what their motive for getting a "small dog" to begin with is, right? 

ann marie and the "i'm not fat...i'm not big boned...i'm just right! now can i have that cookie i smell on the countertop?" buttercup


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TheButtercup_@Mar 8 2005, 06:05 PM
> *ann marie and the "i'm not fat...i'm not big boned...i'm just right! now can i have that cookie i smell on the countertop?" buttercup
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=41235*


[/QUOTE]

I LOVE the way you end your posts... that is just the cutest wording that you do.... Maybe you should write a book.... "Pearls from The Buttercup".


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## TheButtercup (Mar 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom_@Mar 8 2005, 07:27 PM
> *I LOVE the way you end your posts... that is just the cutest wording that you do.... Maybe you should write a book.... "Pearls from The Buttercup".
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=41255*


[/QUOTE]

awww shucks. i like to think (not often, as sometimes all that brain activity wears me out!) that if the buttercup COULD talk...she'd be much wittier than myself, i couldnt possibly do her justice in a sentence or two. she can often give you a "look" that just leaves no doubt how sarcastic, witty, snarky, or silly she feels in response to what's going on. i try to translate best i can. LOL. 

to keep "on topic" of the thread...how many times have any of you heard "oh THAT'S a maltese? hmmm. i've never seen them with short hair like that. i didnt know they 'came' in short haired variety...." ????? i find it hard to contain all the laughter and snarkiness i would normally use in replying with "not much different than PEOPLE...as people can HAVE long hair...they just choose to keep it short, maybe?" just always gives me a chuckle. 

a different kind of chuckle than the Dancing Chili!!









ann marie and the "sometimes that 'look' just says 'GIMME THAT COOKIE!'....sheesh..." buttercup


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Sylphide and Shrek's Mom (Dec 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole_@Mar 9 2005, 12:40 AM
> *Speaking of which, Tobykins just got a new do tonight...I admit, I am so partial to the short puppycut--I think it makes him look like a puppy...I just love him!
> 
> 
> ...


Awww--Cute Photo!!! He looks adorable.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## TheButtercup (Mar 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Nichole_@Mar 8 2005, 11:40 PM
> *Just to add my thoughts on the whole matter of Malts having short hair...I never thought about it.  LOL  ...
> Anyway, long story short, I guess many people don't realize that you can cut their hair.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

fair enough! i guess i would never have thought of it either. or maybe i did? or maybe i thought that a puppycut indicated an actual puppy-age dog. either way. lol. i like the short cuts too, i have never seen a puppy cut i didnt like! the buttercup looks be-yoooooo-tee-ful in any length (good thing i'm completely unbiased, huh? LOL), i think, and once i'm "done" with the long hair look on her, i'll probably keep her cut short. 

and i agree! sir tobykins looks VERY collegiate in his new sweater! his mensa acceptance letter should be arriving soon, no?







he is just precious. love his pics!

ann marie and the "i ain't no rocket surgeon, but i'm d*mn cute!" buttercup


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Mar 8 2005, 10:51 AM
> *It's a shame people paid for that list when they can download a breeder list for free from the American Maltese Association's website.
> 
> Of course, without actually visiting the various breeders, you really never know for certain what the facilities are like.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=41110*


[/QUOTE]

And let's not forget, that there were people who visited Siliski's operation and didn't know what was going on in the building behind her house. It seems that buying a Malt is "Buyer Beware" situation......


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maltsmom_@Mar 8 2005, 03:26 PM
> *Even though Jack is not really fat, I am still cutting back on his calories and fat because he has luxating patellas on his back legs.  If he loses a few, it will be better for his knees.  I am trying to avoid surgery.  It's so hard to look at those eyes and not give him a treat.  I am going to have to be very strong.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean about it being hard to resist giving them treats....I'm in the same boat with you on that. K&C "demand" treats from me all the time. Some ieas are:

1. Save some of his meal-time kibble and use that for treats
2. Buy a low calorie "Lite" treat
3. Break the treat in half and give just part of it

Getting a Malt to lose a couple pounds is not easy. It look about nine months for Kallie to lose a pound and a half, which is what she needed to lose. She is a trim nine pounds now and I can really tell that it is a better weight for her.

You had mentioned in another post that if he lost more weight you could feel his ribs. Their ribs should be easily felt... that is normal.... the layer of fat on top of their ribs is what you don't want... means they are overweight.

Good luck!!!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

A couple of extra pounds on a tiny Maltese is a lot of extra weight to carry around. My Lady weighed 2 pounds over her ideal weight becasue I gave her too many treats when I first adopted her and that contributed to her diabetes. Just like with people, obesity (yes, 2 pounds overweight and she was obese) can cause all sorts of health problems.

I think the biggest mistake we make (speaking from personal experience) is not counting those treats as part of their daily food intake. As K&C's mom said, save a little kibble from their meal as a treat. Portion is the key also, as she says - give 1/2 a biscuit rather than a whole one. (I get the Old Mother Hubbard lowfat "Just Veggin' biscuits and cut them in half.) Lady also gets lots of veggies - green beans in her Twist and Treat is her favorite.


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

For Toby: And very handsome too....all the qualities any man needs....smart, handsome, and he knows how to dress!


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## Laceys mom (Nov 12, 2004)

I know what you are all saying. Lacey is on the bigger side, if you can call 7.2 pounds big. I have people come up to me all the time and tell me she couldn't be a maltese...she is to big and has short hair. Sometimes people can have an attitude about it too...like they know something I don't and boy am I stupid for believing she is a maltese...she must be a bichon. I have gotten to the point were I just look at them and say nothing. I know that is being rude but I figure they are the ones that want to start trouble. I have even gone so far as to ask my vet if she thinks Lacey is all maltese (her mother breed maltese years ago) and she looked at me and said that of course Lacey is. She even told me that she prefers Lacey's size...she is seeing a lot of dogs that are just so little that have problems. When Lacey's hair is short it has a little wave to it, not curly just a wave. When it is longer it is straight but I prefer her in a short puppycut...not as much work. I have even ran into a few other people who own maltese and they have all told me the samething. They even went so far as to tell me that they wished that their dogs looked more like Lacey...I ran into one that was 15 pounds. I thought he was beautiful. So I don't know what the solution is to people being rude but I have gotten to the point were I just don't bother explaining anymore when people are rude or have an attitude.


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## Harleysmom (Jan 26, 2005)

When Harley was at the vet the other day he weighed 8 lbs. I about freaked. He still seems like a small dog to me,just the right size my hubby says! BUT he's only 6mths old so I am worried how big he could end up being.....the mother was 9lbs and the father was 10 lbs.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Laceys mom_@Mar 10 2005, 03:13 PM
> *I know what you are all saying.  Lacey is on the bigger side, if you can call 7.2 pounds big.  I have people come up to me all the time and tell me she couldn't be a maltese...she is to big and has short hair.  Sometimes people can have an attitude about it too...like they know something I don't and boy am I stupid for believing she is a maltese...she must be a bichon.  I have gotten to the point were I just look at them and say nothing.  I know that is being rude but I figure they are the ones that want to start trouble.  I have even gone so far as to ask my vet if she thinks Lacey is all maltese (her mother breed maltese years ago) and she looked at me and said that of course Lacey is.  She even told me that she prefers Lacey's size...she is seeing a lot of dogs that are just so little that have problems.  When Lacey's hair is short it has a little wave to it, not curly just a wave.  When it is longer it is straight but I prefer her in a short puppycut...not as much work.  I have even ran into a few other people who own maltese and they have all told me the samething.  They even went so far as to tell me that they wished that their dogs looked more like Lacey...I ran into one that was 15 pounds.  I thought he was beautiful.  So I don't know what the solution is to people being rude but I have gotten to the point were I just don't bother explaining anymore when people are rude or have an attitude.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=41889*


[/QUOTE]

The "Standard" is 4-7 so I'm not sure what these idiots who are offending your baby are talking about!


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## Laceys mom (Nov 12, 2004)

I know. I have just gotten to the point when I have someone say something negative about my baby I just stare at them. That usually makes them uncomfortable and they leave. If I wanted a tiny dog I would have gotten a chihuahua. From what I know they are suppose to be the smallest of the toy breed. I think people see people like Paris Hilton on tv with her little dog, Tinkerbell and think that is how small Lacey or any maltese is suppose to be. I don't care how much our little ones weigh...as long as they are healthy and happy let them be any weight they are suppose to be. I wouldn't trade Lacey for any other maltese...even a beautiful show dog. Lacey is my baby and I just love her so much. I knew when I brought her she wasn't a show dog, but she is everything I had wanted and hoped for.


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

Lacey's Mom,

We get those comments all the time and Miko is 6.5 lbs. I hate how lots of times I don't even realize how rude it is until after the person left. When did a 6.5 lb dog was considered to be too big? We would love Miko no matter what size he is, but he is certainly not too big. Ughhhh...those ignorant people just kill me.

I also think its a California thing....when I lived in Nashville, people thought Miko was sooo tiny!!


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## puppylucy (Jan 8, 2005)

People like that make me







.

I mean, I could maybe see the comments if your dog was like 15 pounds, but 7.2 or 6.5!?!? That's ridiculous. Like, really. Maltese aren't meant to be like 2 pounds. People like that are kinda


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## alwaysbj (Mar 9, 2005)

that is so sad...........you would know if you bred 2 dogs that size that problems would arise...........those sought of breeders should be stopped........but thank heavens for your kodie!


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

My neighbor, whose mom I guess has a maltese, made comment about Lexi being a really big maltese. Yeah she is big (8.5lbs) but not that big. I was like the standard is 4-7lbs but there are some smaller and some bigger.


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by okw_@Mar 10 2005, 08:53 PM
> *...when I lived in Nashville, people thought Miko was sooo tiny!!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=42013*


[/QUOTE]

I'm from Nashville! Cloud's 12 lbs and noone has ever said anything rude or say he isnt or what not! Maybe they know I'd slap 'em? LOL Some people think Cloud(boy) is the mommy of Noriko! HAHAHAHAH. Why don't people ask and not assume their sex?


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko+Mar 11 2005, 08:47 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm from Nashville! Cloud's 12 lbs and noone has ever said anything rude or say he isnt or what not! Maybe they know I'd slap 'em? LOL Some people think Cloud(boy) is the mommy of Noriko! HAHAHAHAH. Why don't people ask and not assume their sex?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=42136
[/B][/QUOTE]

I think people in Nashville are just nicer. In LA, I have actually had people say to me "Isn't he way too big for maltese"? And I did actually say, well, he is within standard for maltese, so.... And then this awful lady said "I thought Maltese are supposed to be 2-3 lbs"

We also were able to actually bring Miko to places in Nashville without even his carrier. Here, we have to sneak him in (hidden in his bag). I miss Nashville....


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

People are just rude. I wonder if they would get offended if you commented on the size of their children? I say turn the other cheek and be all the more proud of the wonderful companion you have. Who cares large or small? I have on that's going to be smaller, she weighs 3.7 lbs. and is just a hair over 6 months. If she grows up to be 25lbs. I wouldn't love her any less, and if she stays small, then so be it.


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## csantana (Mar 12, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kodie_@Feb 11 2005, 05:49 PM
> *I thought I'd start this topic for our new member maltsmom because of her experience with another forum.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


How old is Kodie and how much does he weight. I think he is just perfect size.


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by okw_@Mar 11 2005, 09:55 AM
> *I think people in Nashville are just nicer.  In LA, I have actually had people say to me "Isn't he way too big for maltese"?  And I did actually say, well, he is within standard for maltese, so....  And then this awful lady said "I thought Maltese are supposed to be 2-3 lbs"
> 
> We also were able to actually bring Miko to places in Nashville without even his carrier.  Here, we have to sneak him in (hidden in his bag).  I miss Nashville....
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=42141*


[/QUOTE]

I can't sneak mine in anywhere. They're not too socialized so they bark at everyone and every thing. I can't be offended if someone looked at Cloud and say "isn't he too big..." because he is almost twice the standard weight! LOL But, I've seen a yellow(YES YELLOW) maltese and I've seen a 17 lb maltese. I'm not going to say anything though.







You know what they say though...MEAN PEOPLE SUCK! HAHAHAHAHAHAAH

I may take my babies to CA with me if I go at the end of this yr. I'd love to hear what ppl will say about my babies!!!!


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko+Mar 20 2005, 02:45 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't sneak mine in anywhere. They're not too socialized so they bark at everyone and every thing. I can't be offended if someone looked at Cloud and say "isn't he too big..." because he is almost twice the standard weight! LOL But, I've seen a yellow(YES YELLOW) maltese and I've seen a 17 lb maltese. I'm not going to say anything though.







You know what they say though...MEAN PEOPLE SUCK! HAHAHAHAHAHAAH

I may take my babies to CA with me if I go at the end of this yr. I'd love to hear what ppl will say about my babies!!!!
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=44656[/B][/QUOTE]

How funny. I am actually going back to Nashville for 3-4 months at the end of the summer to finish up some required classes at Vanderbilt med school. After I graduate though, we will be moving to San Francisco. The weather in LA is great (when it doesn't rain). Miko gets out to be more often.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Where we live I've only seen a few Maltese, except at shows, in the whole 13 years + that I've had Frosty. Most people I run into don't know what a Maltese is. They'll say, isn't he cute!, is he a Bichon? Not because he looks anything like a Bichon, just because he is white! They seem to know the name and that Bichons are white.........so that must be what he is! Really upsets me since I don't care for Bichons. The only Maltese most people I meet have seen were on a TV dog show. So if the hair is cut......well they can't be a Maltese. My skin has gotten a little thicker over the years, so I just immediately say.....He's a Maltese with a shorter hair cut.

We camp (in our 5th wheel) 4 weeks a year, a week at a time, spread throughout May-Oct. Although Frosty spends much of that time inside the RV in relative luxury, walking him does tend to get him dirty. So having short hair especially on feet, legs and underbelly is important. That looks more like a puppy cut with long ears, face and tail. I'd say he looks closer to a Poodle than a Bichon. As for size he's always been on the thin side at 10-11 lb. So he is large, is AKC registered, whatever that proves. I'd like him in the 7-8 lb. range--just because it would be easier to carry him. Animals, like dogs, who have multiple births always have some larger and some smaller in a litter. There is usually one on the large side and a "runt". It could be that the placenta feeding one is giving it more nutrition and maybe one fetus is squeezed over in a corner and not getting a good dose. Same as after they are born...some babies get the bigger breast with more milk. The old saying about getting the "hind tit"........is probably true. So what I'm thinking is even the great breeders who care the most about genetics and health of the breed are going to get dogs of different sizes in a litter due to 'nature'. That's a very simple unscientific way of looking at size differences in one litter, but we Grandmas are like that!


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Outcrosses tend to give you puppies that vary in size whereas with a line breeding you will have more conformity among the litter. Knowing what is behind your dogs and how that has produced can give you a pretty good idea about what sizes you should get. Responsible, reputable breeders know their lines quite well and most of the time can tell if the pup will be in standard, on the edge, or over.


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## felicity (Jun 19, 2006)

> I feel my breeder was a good breeder because she was very helpful, she had guidelines who could adopt her puppies, she wasn't in it for the money and she clearly put her heart into her hobby. Does this make her a backyard breeder? Does it matter in this case? I don't think so.[/B]


very good point, 98% of people are pretty good but then you do get a few that think if you pay $3000 that's the only time you are buying from a good breeder, i feel that as long as the breeder is improving the breed, loves the dogs, isn't just in it for the money and has experience then you have a reputable breeder, many well known breeders could be worse than some hobby breeders, you never can tell.

my breeder was a hobby breeder too and she also shows them, she knows a lot about the breed and the mother is a very lovely example of the maltese breed.

that being said, i would never buy from someone i didn't trust, no matter who they were, you can usually tell if someone is good when you meet them. phylis allows me to stop by any time and she has been home with the pups since they were born, just making sure they are okay, she said they shouldn't be left alone at that age....she could charge more for her puppies but she chooses not to, she has enough money already.


felicity


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

Nemo is 12 pds, and he is all Maltese to me.. I m afraid when I get my girl (Maltese), I don't want a 3 pound dog, I would really like her to be somewhere in the range of 6 to 8 pds.. I like them chubby
Just my opinion.
Andrea~


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> Nemo is 12 pds, and he is all Maltese to me.. I m afraid when I get my girl (Maltese), I don't want a 3 pound dog, I would really like her to be somewhere in the range of 6 to 8 pds.. I like them chubby
> Just my opinion.
> Andrea~
> 
> ...


*

Hmm Andrea since we suspect that Bella Mia and Nemo may be related, would you like to take HER home with you? She is ALMOST 5 pounds and very sturdy and a VERY happy doggie. Loves all.










Since interesting reading in this thread... there was a person posting on MySpace MalteseOwners group about how any Maltese that is under 4 pounds or over 7 pounds is "wrong" and was bred BADDLY by a BAD breeder. OH boy did I take issue with that wording. Blah on them.

enJOY!
Melanie
*


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## barb (Apr 3, 2006)

My dalmation was a huge dal. When we went to see her, her parents were big. I didn't know it at the time, she was very sweet, and of course I took her home. When she got older we had to feed her special science diet to lose weight. She would get up to 75 or 80 lbs. Of course it didn't help that I was unknowingly feeding her twice the amount of food she should have, and she would occasionaly take a whole loaf of bread or a costco pie off the counter and eat it









When you get a dog you kind of know what weight it might be, but you really do not have control if it turns out to be 7 or 8lbs instead of 4 or 5lbs. But it is still your baby, and you still love it. Some people are just lame, and like to hear themselves talk.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=238493
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mel,
You know I would still take Bella Mia! I am just saying I am so sick of people thinking it's okay to comment on a dog's weight, I know Nemo will never be a champion Maltese or a Show winner, but that doesn't mean he is not a maltese because of his weight. I am afraid to get a small female for the fact of not wanting her to get hurt, that is just how I feel, But you know the Wookster is my top of the line boy, whom I sware when I visit, I will just be taking for a walk and maybe some shopping, and then I will come right back and bring him to you







...XO Andrea~


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