# specific food for history of bladder stones



## mnk1220 (Feb 5, 2009)

hello i was just wondering if anyone has any input on a diet or home cooked meals that aid towards a dog with history of stones.. He is currently on the royal canin urinary so.. but recently i just found his his liver enzymes were high and he does have a slightly enlraged liver.. Going back to the vet for more blood for in 3 weeks to see if the level has dropped stayed the same or have gone up.. He is taking a supplement Denamarine..


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

there are a few types of stones and a diet for each of them what type of stones were they


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## elizabeth (Oct 31, 2008)

Hi!
My "annie" whom we lost 3 months ago had stones. We even had to do surgery to remove them. You have to find out if they have Calcium stones or another type. That helps the vet decide what food and diet they need. She also had high liver enzymes and ended up having Cushings disease. I would ask your vet about Cushings. But, to answer your question, she was onm Urinary SO and C/D, one made by Hills and the other Royal Canin. We liked the C/D much better.......she never got another stone and she liked the taste better. I also boiled chicken, with no skin and added some to the food. The canned food is bland and the chicken helped get her to eat it. 
Just be sure to ask about Cushings and most vets have Urinary SO and C/D. I am sorry I can't remember which one was made by Hills etc....they will know. They all carry it. Petsmart has it back at the vet desk. You have to have a prescription to buy it.
I hope your baby is ok. I hope this helped. I didn't do any special cooking, just added the chicken to spoil her!!!!!
Blessings :Happy_Dance:


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## mnk1220 (Feb 5, 2009)

I believe he had calicum stones..

QUOTE (Dr.Jaimie @ Feb 7 2009, 10:29 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721637


> there are a few types of stones and a diet for each of them what type of stones were they[/B]


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## mnk1220 (Feb 5, 2009)

I had to have Hudsons stones removed as well. He has been doing fine on the royal canin urinary so i mix the canned with some dryed. Yes they did blood work and a urinalysis.. He does not have cushing disease. Just a slighty enlarged liver and high liver enzymes.. we will see if the levels went down in 3 weeks when we go back. So Chicken would be okay to give him??

thanks soo much


QUOTE (Elizabeth @ Feb 7 2009, 10:34 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721639


> Hi!
> My "annie" whom we lost 3 months ago had stones. We even had to do surgery to remove them. She also had high liver enzymes and ended up having Cushings disease. I would ask your vet about Cushings. But, to answer your question, she was onm Urinary SO and C/D, one made by Hills and the other Royal Canin. We liked the C/D much better.......she never got another stone and she liked the taste better. I also boiled chicken, with no skin and added some to the food. The canned food is bland and the chicken helped get her to eat it.
> Just be sure to ask about Cushings and most vets have Urinary SO and C/D. I am sorry I can't remember which one was made by Hills etc....they will know. They all carry it. Petsmart has it back at the vet desk. You have to have a prescription to buy it.
> I hope your baby is ok. I hope this helped. I didn't do any special cooking, just added the chicken to spoil her!!!!!
> Blessings :Happy_Dance:[/B]


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

i would stick to the diet u were given for the stones...if u change it he may develop stones again. what were his levels of his liver?


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## mnk1220 (Feb 5, 2009)

I dont know the numbers.. But the vet told me today his alt level has come down since the first blood test.. hes on a supplement Denamarine we go back in 3 weeks for more blood work.... he is his good old self! Thats what stumps me!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

was a bile acids run? i missed if u said so


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## mnk1220 (Feb 5, 2009)

no they didnt even mention that... what is mvd and liver shunt?


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

bile acids are used to determine liver function. it can also be used to see if there is a possible liver shunt. there r different types of shunts. portosystemic shunts are usually found at a young age but can be found later in life. it is a large vessel that bypasses the liver. surgery can be preformed to close off the vessel. the livers job is to filter toxins and break down proteins....when blood bypasses the liver the toxins and proteins build up. mvd is a bunch of tiny microscopic shunts...cant be surgically corrected. some cases are mild and dont need treatment as others need special meds and diet changes. there r other things that affect liver function. gallbladder issues too..if there is an obstruction of bile, or cirrhosis of the liver. plus more. i would suggest bile acids to first determine if the liver is functioning properly. if it comes back high i would recommend an abdominal ultrasound. was his Alk phos high?


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

http://www.avmi.net/NewFiles/Scintigraphy/Portal.html




QUOTE (mnk1220 @ Feb 7 2009, 11:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721658


> no they didnt even mention that... what is mvd and liver shunt?[/B]


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

Jaimie just curious your thoughts as everything i have read says a dog that is mvd with no symptoms should eat a protein diet less than 22% and if having symtpoms should eat 18% or less protein in diet. So with liver issues protein should be highly digestible or restricted to help the liver and not let the toxins build up in the body. I have read to feed soy, vegetarian or fish diet with a dog that has mvd. My dd has mvd and she is on a low protein diet and her post biles dropped from 74 to 54 then to 26 after being on a soy diet purina ha -- i have read alot on this and every where i read it states this so i am confused as on another thread I am reading not to restrict protein with a compromised liver so wanted to get your take on it. DD has never had symptoms of liver disease but due to putting her on atopica they wanted bile acids done and it came up then so we had 3 done over the course of a year. I do not use milk thistle, denomarin, or any of that at this time since last tested 26 on low protein diet. 



QUOTE (Dr.Jaimie @ Feb 8 2009, 12:13 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721669


> bile acids are used to determine liver function. it can also be used to see if there is a possible liver shunt. there r different types of shunts. portosystemic shunts are usually found at a young age but can be found later in life. it is a large vessel that bypasses the liver. surgery can be preformed to close off the vessel. the livers job is to filter toxins and break down proteins....when blood bypasses the liver the toxins and proteins build up. mvd is a bunch of tiny microscopic shunts...cant be surgically corrected. some cases are mild and dont need treatment as others need special meds and diet changes. there r other things that affect liver function. gallbladder issues too..if there is an obstruction of bile, or cirrhosis of the liver. plus more. i would suggest bile acids to first determine if the liver is functioning properly. if it comes back high i would recommend an abdominal ultrasound. was his Alk phos high?[/B]


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## mnk1220 (Feb 5, 2009)

the alt was high the first time now i believe the his Alk phos high... so when i go back for blood work what should i bring up? bile acid tesT??



QUOTE (Dr.Jaimie @ Feb 7 2009, 11:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721669


> bile acids are used to determine liver function. it can also be used to see if there is a possible liver shunt. there r different types of shunts. portosystemic shunts are usually found at a young age but can be found later in life. it is a large vessel that bypasses the liver. surgery can be preformed to close off the vessel. the livers job is to filter toxins and break down proteins....when blood bypasses the liver the toxins and proteins build up. mvd is a bunch of tiny microscopic shunts...cant be surgically corrected. some cases are mild and dont need treatment as others need special meds and diet changes. there r other things that affect liver function. gallbladder issues too..if there is an obstruction of bile, or cirrhosis of the liver. plus more. i would suggest bile acids to first determine if the liver is functioning properly. if it comes back high i would recommend an abdominal ultrasound. was his Alk phos high?[/B]


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2103&aid=315


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2114&aid=400

stones info above


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

not sure of the stones that a friend of mines dog had but he had stones and is now on natural balance vegetarian diet and doing very well. Low protein diet and they also are good for liver disease as well


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

QUOTE (dwerten @ Feb 7 2009, 11:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721703


> Jaimie just curious your thoughts as everything i have read says a dog that is mvd with no symptoms should eat a protein diet less than 22% and if having symtpoms should eat 18% or less protein in diet. So with liver issues protein should be highly digestible or restricted to help the liver and not let the toxins build up in the body. I have read to feed soy, vegetarian or fish diet with a dog that has mvd. My dd has mvd and she is on a low protein diet and her post biles dropped from 74 to 54 then to 26 after being on a soy diet purina ha -- i have read alot on this and every where i read it states this so i am confused as on another thread I am reading not to restrict protein with a compromised liver so wanted to get your take on it. DD has never had symptoms of liver disease but due to putting her on atopica they wanted bile acids done and it came up then so we had 3 done over the course of a year. I do not use milk thistle, denomarin, or any of that at this time since last tested 26 on low protein diet.
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE (Dr.Jaimie @ Feb 8 2009, 12:13 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721669





> bile acids are used to determine liver function. it can also be used to see if there is a possible liver shunt. there r different types of shunts. portosystemic shunts are usually found at a young age but can be found later in life. it is a large vessel that bypasses the liver. surgery can be preformed to close off the vessel. the livers job is to filter toxins and break down proteins....when blood bypasses the liver the toxins and proteins build up. mvd is a bunch of tiny microscopic shunts...cant be surgically corrected. some cases are mild and dont need treatment as others need special meds and diet changes. there r other things that affect liver function. gallbladder issues too..if there is an obstruction of bile, or cirrhosis of the liver. plus more. i would suggest bile acids to first determine if the liver is functioning properly. if it comes back high i would recommend an abdominal ultrasound. was his Alk phos high?[/B]


[/B][/QUOTE]


asymptomatic dogs do not need any diet change or any meds according to dr center


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

QUOTE (mnk1220 @ Feb 8 2009, 01:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721748


> the alt was high the first time now i believe the his Alk phos high... so when i go back for blood work what should i bring up? bile acid tesT??
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE (Dr.Jaimie @ Feb 7 2009, 11:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721669





> bile acids are used to determine liver function. it can also be used to see if there is a possible liver shunt. there r different types of shunts. portosystemic shunts are usually found at a young age but can be found later in life. it is a large vessel that bypasses the liver. surgery can be preformed to close off the vessel. the livers job is to filter toxins and break down proteins....when blood bypasses the liver the toxins and proteins build up. mvd is a bunch of tiny microscopic shunts...cant be surgically corrected. some cases are mild and dont need treatment as others need special meds and diet changes. there r other things that affect liver function. gallbladder issues too..if there is an obstruction of bile, or cirrhosis of the liver. plus more. i would suggest bile acids to first determine if the liver is functioning properly. if it comes back high i would recommend an abdominal ultrasound. was his Alk phos high?[/B]


[/B][/QUOTE]


yes i would ask about bile acids and ask for the numbers


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

thanks Jaimie  as i do not use any supplements other than probiotics to keep good bacteria in her since she has such bad allergies and i am thinking of changing her diet from purina ha as having concerns she is getting allergic to soy diet as she is itching while on temaril p which tells me there is some food allergy going on as steroids does not stop allergic reaction to food only environmental and i was concerned due to protein content and her mvd. I will probably do a fish diet with her - I also have read that soy affects the thyroid production and she is hypothyroid so once i have her blood work done i am going to have a base line and then switch out the food and see what happens over the course of the next 6 months when she gets her next blood work done. I do one thing at a time with her as she has mvd, hypothyroid and severe allergies and monitor through blood work any changes. 


QUOTE (Dr.Jaimie @ Feb 8 2009, 11:30 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721856


> QUOTE (dwerten @ Feb 7 2009, 11:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721703





> Jaimie just curious your thoughts as everything i have read says a dog that is mvd with no symptoms should eat a protein diet less than 22% and if having symtpoms should eat 18% or less protein in diet. So with liver issues protein should be highly digestible or restricted to help the liver and not let the toxins build up in the body. I have read to feed soy, vegetarian or fish diet with a dog that has mvd. My dd has mvd and she is on a low protein diet and her post biles dropped from 74 to 54 then to 26 after being on a soy diet purina ha -- i have read alot on this and every where i read it states this so i am confused as on another thread I am reading not to restrict protein with a compromised liver so wanted to get your take on it. DD has never had symptoms of liver disease but due to putting her on atopica they wanted bile acids done and it came up then so we had 3 done over the course of a year. I do not use milk thistle, denomarin, or any of that at this time since last tested 26 on low protein diet.
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE (Dr.Jaimie @ Feb 8 2009, 12:13 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721669





> bile acids are used to determine liver function. it can also be used to see if there is a possible liver shunt. there r different types of shunts. portosystemic shunts are usually found at a young age but can be found later in life. it is a large vessel that bypasses the liver. surgery can be preformed to close off the vessel. the livers job is to filter toxins and break down proteins....when blood bypasses the liver the toxins and proteins build up. mvd is a bunch of tiny microscopic shunts...cant be surgically corrected. some cases are mild and dont need treatment as others need special meds and diet changes. there r other things that affect liver function. gallbladder issues too..if there is an obstruction of bile, or cirrhosis of the liver. plus more. i would suggest bile acids to first determine if the liver is functioning properly. if it comes back high i would recommend an abdominal ultrasound. was his Alk phos high?[/B]


[/B][/QUOTE]


asymptomatic dogs do not need any diet change or any meds according to dr center
[/B][/QUOTE]


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

http://www.bytnc.org/BiewerLiverShunt.html

http://www.cairnterrier.org/health/2007_02...ter_summary.php


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