# Puppy Search



## SugarBob62 (Nov 9, 2009)

From my other thread here: http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=49991 about losing our Maltese recently.

I never thought at this time (only almost 2 months later) I would even be considering or looking at puppies. But I think we were guided in the right direction, maybe by Andy telling us that it’s ok to “look” now. I was out shopping with my mom last week and we just happened to go into a local greenhouse looking at Halloween merchandise because it was half off. And my mom said lets look at the Christmas trees. Because this place does an entire room of like 50 different decorated trees. I said they won’t be up yet…she said lets just go look.
So we went to the back room, and we saw a little gated dog enclosure. And at the same time, a woman turned around...and what was she holding?? A Maltese puppy…of all dogs!!! So we went into the whole story about Andy, and she told us about her story about getting the dog…and we talked for a good 30-40 minutes. And she let us hold her puppy which was surprisingly very comforting…I thought it would make me upset. But it was uplifting.

So after that day, a few days later we just sort of started talking about looking for a puppy, and I started looking online…and it feels ok. Where as before I was angry if someone brought it up and on the verge of crying. But I feel like Andy guided us to that store to see the baby and let us know that it was ok to start looking for another dog.

So eventually that brought me to here. Like I said in my intro post, we bought Andy from the first breeder we went to see. He was “the one”! And just recently from talking to other local breeders my mom found out his breeder unfortunately retired and then passed away about 10 years ago. But that she had also worked with Marge Rozik in the 70s…whom I am just now hearing about from reading posts on here. So I guess that is why we had such good luck with Andy. I guess his breeder was a very good one? We didn’t really do much research when getting him, without computers back then. We just saw her ad in the local newspaper, went to her house and that was it. Not knowing anything about potential BYB then, I guess we lucked out and picked a winner. However that was a LONG time ago, and he was 400-500 dollars, I can’t remember exactly I was just a kid…money was no issue to me hahahah.

And I am seeing now that prices have gone way up over the years. And we just went today to look at a puppy from an ad we saw in the paper for $600 that was horrible! I now know what a BYB is…
I thought we would see like what we saw 14 years ago when we got Andy. Needless to say we were very discouraged today. Because the sad part is…we still got a $2000 vet bill from Andy’s surgery…but now we have no doggy.

But I am worried to think now that the only good dogs out there are into the thousands and two thousand dollar price range. Is that average? We just want a healthy dog most importantly. (We were already down the road with congenital health problems with our first cat we had…and that was awful). And after losing Andy the way we did…we don’t want to be thinking about any potential health problems with a new puppy.


Now I have been looking at posts on here about breeders in the Western Pennsylvania area. And I am still sort of unsure about what is the best out there. 
My mom spoke with Debbie Palmieri of Mella Malta. And Debbie Martin.
And I think she is going to call Josymir Maltese tomorrow.

I’m getting confused about who has dogs available or when. But aside from them are there any other suggestions for this area (Pittsburgh) or surrounding areas?

Has anyone heard of Angela Hughes of Glenshaw? I can’t find anything online about her. 
Or what about Janet Licate of Candlewyck in Carlisle?
Or Carol Neth of Oak Ridge in McMurray…I can’t find anything about her either?
Or what about Beverly Quilliam of Bevway or Janet McCarty of Ultra Maltese? (They are about 3 hours from here, near Harrisburg…which is probably the furthest we would be willing to travel).
They are all on the AMA site.

Basically any suggestions would be great. Having never really formally researched breeders before I feel like a newbie at this. And I feel like word of mouth is a really good way to go. Because websites may look fancy and all. And pictures may look amazing…but I would like to hear what anyone has to say or any input at all about those places…or any others you can think of.

And I know from reading on here Chrisman is apparently REALLY good? But that is way too far for us to travel, and we want to be able to actually see the dogs, parents and everything too…and the kennel or home as well before making a decision…so shipping in a dog isn’t an option. Thanks in advance!


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

I saw that you mentioned Josymire. It looks like they will have some puppies available in January http://www.josymirmaltese.com/Puppies/Available.htm Maltese on average are $1500-$3500 with males being priced lower and females higher typically. I'm sorry about the loss of your baby  My two just turned 5 and I keep hoping they'll live forever. Good Luck finding a new puppy and good for you for doing your research and trying to find a reputable breeder


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## Riski'smom (Apr 28, 2007)

So very sorry about your little Andy. I've also heard wonderful things about Beverly Quilliam of Bevway and we had the same handler when I was having my little boy shown and I know she has some beautiful babies. Also would check with Millie Schiffer,great lady, of MellaMalta (it talks about her starting her line with a puppy from Marge Rozik on her home page of her website)and Janet of Ultra, all with very nice babies. Best of luck to you in your search.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I don't know if Oak Ridge is still breeding...you'd have to check

I know Beverly's partner Wayne and would definitely recommend looking into Bevway, Josymir, or Chrisman.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

If you want to stick to your budget of several hundred dollars, perhaps you might consider getting a retiree from a repuatable breeder. They are usually only a few years old, and you could skip the puppy stage. I've heard great things about Bevway and Josymir.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

So sorry you lost your beloved Andy. It sounds like you know it's time to open your heart to another fluff. :heart: 
Josy is really very sweet and supposed to have great pups. I really wanted to get one from her but the timing was off. It also wasn't a close trip since I'm in NYC. Luckily Josy is right near you. Like you, I wanted to see the pups in person. But price-wise many of the Midwest/Western breeders are more reasonably priced but I kept thinking I'd have to roll in a flight which drove it up there again. Some other ways to not spend as much money is of course a rescue. There are lots of Maltese being surrendered because of the economy. Often the dogs are healthy but it's the owner's financial situation that puts them in this position. There are also retired pups (usually for around price of spay plus a little more) -- wonderful dogs who are already trained and often placed in homes of those who have had dogs before. Puppies are a ton of work -- mine has been with us one month and I'm very happy but very exhausted. Is the pup going to be cared for primarily by you, or your mom, since you mentioned her? For a 25 year old, a young pup's needs are fine but for us not so young "girls" the whole training thing is pretty intense so a retiree who was either a show dog or was bred might work well. You might also be able to get a teen several months old or a year or two old -- kind of like I did. Tyler was 8 months old when I got him so somewhat trained (on good days) and not as destructive as many younger pups. Sometimes breeders have them for less money. Also males are usually not as expensive as females.
Good luck and keep us posted.


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## SugarBob62 (Nov 9, 2009)

Ok are Millie Schiffer, Debbie Palmeiri and Debbie Martin...all part of the same group then? They all were with Marge Rozik originally? I am getting confused because I thought Debbie P. had Mella Malta? But then my mom spoke to Debbie M. And online it says Debbie P. And Debbie M. took over the Villa Malta...so who is Millie Schiffer?? :huh: 

And we wanted to stick with a puppy. And as much as a rescue dog would be nice. We would be worried about its health, since aren't some from puppy mills? We want to see the mom and dad and everything...and where the puppy is coming from. That is why we don't even want to get one shipped. And if it wasn't full bred. My mom is allergic...and she knows she did well with Andy...so we want to stick with purebred. Mostly we just want a healthy dog. We had that with Andy...and I guess if we have to go above our price range we will just have to save up for it. 

Does anyone know anything about Whispering Pines Kennel? It says they are a PA State Certified Class II Kennel...what does that mean?
http://www.whisperingpineskennel.net/

They have 3 different breeds is that bad? From what I remember Andy's breeder did Maltese and Yorkies. But then they have pictures of tons of cages. But talks about all of this stuff their kennel has...do you think they have too many dogs? And should they be in cages like that? But then how do you not keep them in cages when you have un-neutured dogs and dogs in heat?!?!? So confused.... :huh: 
And when my mom talked to Debbie Palmieri she said she has 20 dogs. To me that seems like a lot...but is that standard?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Whispering Pines looks awfully questionable

"Kennel Class II - To keep or operate a private kennel, pet shop kennel, research kennel,
dealer kennel or breeding kennel for a cumulative total of 51 to 100 dogs of any age during a
calendar year - $200 per year."


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

Millie is a very nice lady. Her dogs are very nice. 
Good luck!
Tina


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

I just wanted to add that after we lost our Shiva, we got a 3.5 year old retired champion ("retiree") from a show breeder and she has been an absolute dream and a heart healer. I have the same issues with allergies and was afraid of health problems after Shiva's and Reina is healthy and happy and fits into our family perfectly.

I'm very sorry for your loss and hope your heart heals soon.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (tamizami @ Nov 10 2009, 07:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=849731


> I just wanted to add that after we lost our Shiva, we got a 3.5 year old retired champion ("retiree") from a show breeder and she has been an absolute dream and a heart healer. I have the same issues with allergies and was afraid of health problems after Shiva's and Reina is healthy and happy and fits into our family perfectly.
> 
> I'm very sorry for your loss and hope your heart heals soon.[/B]



I was the same way Tami! After I lost my first baby, the most important thing to me is getting the healthiest malt out there. And I think I did. I spent the extra money up front, so I wouldn't have to later in medications. The only thing we've payed for with Gigi is a couple shots and her spay. Nothing else. So far, so good.


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## lovesophie (Jan 28, 2008)

I don't have any additional suggestions, but I want to wish you the best of luck in finding that perfect baby!

He/she is out there somewhere. :grouphug:

And welcome to SM!


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## SugarBob62 (Nov 9, 2009)

Ok so my mom spoke with 2 breeders tonight.

I forget the one woman's name, her name was given to us by Burton's Total Pet...they have a list of local breeders. I want to say "Joland" or something like that? But she only has a 5 month old boy and girl that she might even keep one of them. She doesn't advertise she said, so that is why she still has them? But her dogs on the the smaller side...we were looking for larger ones. 

And she also spoke with Carol Neth (Oak Ridge). Does anyone have any input on her? She said she's been breeding for over 40 years...and even remembered Andy's breeder. She just got back from vacation today, and she has a bunch of phone calls to make so she isn't sure who is spoken for yet. She has 2 boys, maybe a boy and girl too aside from them.
But after listening to my moms story she said she felt so bad and thinks we need a new baby asap...that she would hold out and put us at the top of the list until we can go see them this weekend, before she promises any to anyone else. And I think she said they range in price from 950-1250 ish? 
My mom didn't get A LOT of info yet only because she had just gotten back and hadn't even unpacked yet. But she said she sounded really nice. She doesn't show her dogs anymore because I guess she is older now and it's too hard..but she does do grooming.
So I don't want to get too optimistic about it yet. But we are going to try and go on Friday, Sat or Sun.

But has anyone heard anything about her...good or bad or anything at all?

And neither of them are good with the computers, so they don't have websites. And the one woman said she would email a picture of the 5 month olds Friday when her son can help her.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

when you say a 'bigger' maltese, what weight range are you looking for?


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## ann80 (Jun 13, 2009)

I am very sorry for your loss of Andy. Brings tears to my eyes. As heartbreaking as it is, I found Zoey 2 months after losing Chloe. Do what feels right for you. I have much joy with this playful little girl. Great experience with Josymir who indeed will have new pups in Jan, she will also have a male retiree then too. Good luck with your search & please keep us posted.


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## SugarBob62 (Nov 9, 2009)

QUOTE (JMM @ Nov 10 2009, 02:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=849611


> Whispering Pines looks awfully questionable
> 
> "Kennel Class II - To keep or operate a private kennel, pet shop kennel, research kennel,
> dealer kennel or breeding kennel for a cumulative total of 51 to 100 dogs of any age during a
> calendar year - $200 per year."[/B]



Wow I didn't know that about the number of dogs. Thanks for sharing that...I will avoid that!!


And when I say "bigger" I mean Andy was 12lbs, so I know that is not standard...and rare from what we have been told...that only comes around every once in a while. But we liked that, and would hope for one that ends up being on the larger side of the scale range. Atleast 8lbs maybe? I know you can't be guaranteed anything. But I would think 2 smaller dogs would produce smaller puppies, and 2 bigger dogs would have more of a chance to produce bigger puppies...right?
Like the Joland (I think thats what it was called) the parents were 4 and 5 lbs. But Oak Ridge she said hers are usually 5-7. So to us 5-7 is better than 4-5. We are just used to Andy...it will be strange having a smaller dog as it is. But we didn't want one that is TOO small.

Plus our cat is 18lbs...Andy already looked funny next to him at his 12lb weight hahha. Our cat will tower over a dog if it's full grown weight is only 5lbs or even less!

So that is mainly our 2 concerns...healthy and bigger rather than smaller.


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## SugarBob62 (Nov 9, 2009)

I just happened to see this:

http://www.amazon.com/reader/0876665695?_e...ader_0876665695

Granted its from 1984...but it does mention Oak Ridge under the table of contents. As well as Margaret Rozik.

Does anyone have this book by any chance? I was just curious what it says about her, it's out of stock obviously haha. I have a maltese book from when we got Andy..but it's a different one. I can't find anything else at all online about Carol?!?!?


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (SugarBob62 @ Nov 10 2009, 09:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=849821


> I just happened to see this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/reader/0876665695?_e...ader_0876665695
> 
> ...



Marj Rozik passed away in 1999. She was Villa Malta Maltese and split her dogs to three different breeders
before passing. One of the breeders has since been banned from breeding dogs due to abuse and neglect
of over 200 animals.


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## Carole (Nov 1, 2005)

SugarBob62...........I just read your story of how Andy left you :bysmilie: ................and the tears are flowing like a water fall.
I am so sorry for you hurt........and so hoping you find another furlove as sweet, lovable, and perfect as Andy. :wub:


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## SugarBob62 (Nov 9, 2009)

We are going to see Carol Neth's (Oak Ridge) puppies tomorrow morning.

However, now I am concerned because now I found out she breeds Shih Tzus, and Maltese-Shih Tzu mixes as well as Maltese??? And also some kind of miniature horses or donkeys or something. They apparently have a farm?
Is that something to be worried about?


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (SugarBob62 @ Nov 12 2009, 11:34 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850651


> We are going to see Carol Neth's (Oak Ridge) puppies tomorrow morning.
> 
> However, now I am concerned because now I found out she breeds Shih Tzus, and Maltese-Shih Tzu mixes as well as Maltese??? And also some kind of miniature horses or donkeys or something. They apparently have a farm?
> Is that something to be worried about?[/B]


Don't waste your time. Anyone who breeds hybrids is not very reputable and and are not breeding to "better" the breed.


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## SugarBob62 (Nov 9, 2009)

Well she is on the AMA breeder list...that is where I got her information. So I thought that was reputable and a good list to go by? And she's been breeding Maltese for over 40 years, and like I said remembered Andy's breeder from back in the day. So I assume she knows about Maltese.
I am finding mixes in A LOT of places in my searching. There aren't very many, Maltese only breeders from what I am finding. If that is the case...we are running out of options of places to contact or go to. :huh: And that is discouraging...


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

Is this the breeder that we had a thread about not too long ago? That bred her maltese with a vet's mixed breed dogs to get mixes and was selling them for like $1000? and then made an apology and pulled the ads or something?

I would never buy from a breeder that breeds mixes. Just because a breeder is on the AMA list does not automatically make them reputable. It's a good place to start because they SHOULD be following the rules and code of ethics..but not all do. You have to check out all breeders, even if they are AMA members and have been breeding for years and years. Sometimes too people start out reputable and then stray and become unreputable...


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (MyFairLacy @ Nov 12 2009, 11:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850670


> Is this the breeder that we had a thread about not too long ago? That bred her maltese with a vet's mixed breed dogs to get mixes and was selling them for like $1000? and then made an apology and pulled the ads or something?
> 
> I would never buy from a breeder that breeds mixes. Just because a breeder is on the AMA list does not automatically make them reputable. It's a good place to start because they SHOULD be following the rules and code of ethics..but not all do. You have to check out all breeders, even if they are AMA members and have been breeding for years and years. Sometimes too people start out reputable and then stray and become unreputable...[/B]


No that was a different breeder. I'm not sure why any AMA breeder would breed mixes, esp in this economy.


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## SugarBob62 (Nov 9, 2009)

I dunno? Unless my mom misunderstood her. I guess we will find out tomorrow. We are still going to go and see...because otherwise we'll never get anywhere. I guess that is all you can do.

I'm just saying in my personal searches, I'm not find many if any breeders that strictly have maltese ONLY. I mean even Andy's breeder had Yorkies too...and we had no problems with her, I think she was a wonderful breeder. So I don't think that just because they have multiple kinds of dogs it's necessarily bad. Maybe 1 or 2 kinds, 3 at the most? The mixed part I'm not sure about...but it does seem to be the "in" thing lately...though I don't understand how they are just as expensive as purebred dogs...thats the part I don't get. :huh:


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (SugarBob62 @ Nov 12 2009, 11:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850674


> I dunno? Unless my mom misunderstood her. I guess we will find out tomorrow. We are still going to go and see...because otherwise we'll never get anywhere. I guess that is all you can do.
> 
> I'm just saying in my personal searches, I'm not find many if any breeders that strictly have maltese ONLY. I mean even Andy's breeder had Yorkies too...and we had no problems with her, I think she was a wonderful breeder. So I don't think that just because they have multiple kinds of dogs it's necessarily bad. Maybe 1 or 2 kinds, 3 at the most? The mixed part I'm not sure about...but it does seem to be the "in" thing lately...though I don't understand how they are just as expensive as purebred dogs...thats the part I don't get. :huh:[/B]


i think if they are doing justice to all breeds they have, then it's great.  But if they are mixing those breeds they have, it's not so great, IMO. And would be a breeder I would avoid, if it were me.


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

QUOTE (SugarBob62 @ Nov 10 2009, 11:14 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=849590


> Ok are Millie Schiffer, Debbie Palmeiri and Debbie Martin...all part of the same group then? They all were with Marge Rozik originally? I am getting confused because I thought Debbie P. had Mella Malta? But then my mom spoke to Debbie M. And online it says Debbie P. And Debbie M. took over the Villa Malta...so who is Millie Schiffer?? :huh:
> 
> And we wanted to stick with a puppy. And as much as a rescue dog would be nice. We would be worried about its health, since aren't some from puppy mills? We want to see the mom and dad and everything...and where the puppy is coming from. That is why we don't even want to get one shipped. And if it wasn't full bred. My mom is allergic...and she knows she did well with Andy...so we want to stick with purebred. Mostly we just want a healthy dog. We had that with Andy...and I guess if we have to go above our price range we will just have to save up for it.
> 
> ...


First :Welcome 4: so glad you found us BEFORE you purchased your next fluff. I'm so sorry for the loss of Andy. I know the heartache the loss leaves, and the prospect of a new healthy pup does help heal a broken heart.

Now for the facts - Pennsylvania has a dirty little secret - it's a hot bed for puppy mills. Whispering Pines Kennel is owned by Noah Zimmerman, 235 Diehl Rd, Miffinburg, 17844 Customer # 11267 Cert 23-A-0209 

*This is a puppy mill operation* - listed on the Breeders for Greed List - Page 57

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43851

*EDIT:
*Staying with the breeders on the AMA list, <strike>and</strike> with <strike>the</strike> <strike>ones</strike> those recommended by the members here you cannot go wrong. You can contact Julie Phillips from the AMA at "Julie Phillips" [email protected] for breeders in your area. :Good luck: in your search for your next fluff.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (SugarBob62 @ Nov 13 2009, 12:03 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850665


> Well she is on the AMA breeder list...that is where I got her information. So I thought that was reputable and a good list to go by? And she's been breeding Maltese for over 40 years, and like I said remembered Andy's breeder from back in the day. So I assume she knows about Maltese.[/B]


QUOTE (Starsmom @ Nov 13 2009, 01:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850828


> Staying with the breeders on the AMA list, and the ones recommended by the members here you cannot go wrong. :Good luck: in your search for your next fluff.[/color][/B]


It is NOT enough to look at the AMA list. (I want to be careful here when I say this and qualify my statement as I have no direct knowledge about the breeder you found there. I do not know Carol Neth other than from reading about her in the books from years ago. I am surprised to know she is still breeding since I have not heard anything about her having a dog in the ring in a very long time).

The AMA list is a starting place, but it is only one tool in the research. Some wonderful breeders are not on the AMA list and some not so wonderful breeders are. Once you are an AMA member, there are no tests to determine your status. So say for example, someone applies to the AMA when they are eagerly beginning their show/breeding career, 10 years down the line they have gotten sick of showing and maybe even sick of learning more about breeding, but they want to make money off the dogs. They become a Greeder. AMA membership is not a way to guarantee that the person is not motivated by greed. They sign an ethics agreement when they join. But you have to ask them questions and do your research to determine if they continue to live up to the ethical standards you believe they should. 

I do not know if he was ever in the AMA. But years back there was a man by the name Micheal Wolf. He was famous for the quality of show dogs he produced. His maltese are behind most of our dogs as Marcirs and other well-known kennel names go back to his program, but then something happened to change him. He became something disturbing. He bred tons of different breeds of dogs and was motivated by greed. He become a puppy-mill. There are other stories like his. 

I feel like too often we try to generalize about what people must do when they look for a new dog. The reality is that it is an individual process. It is important for everyone to find a set of ethics that you believe breeders should live up to. There are many lists online to read that can help you do this. Then you have to find someone who is living up to those ethics you feel are most important to you. 

Yes, this will narrow down your options. That is a good thing. And if you are careful in your search it may take longer than you would prefer it to, but the right dog and the right breeder are worth the wait. Not only are you investing in the purchase price of the dog, for years to come you will be investing your time and your money in the care and comfort of your beloved friend. You want to start off with all the odds in your favor for a long and happy life together.


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

QUOTE (CloudClan @ Nov 13 2009, 02:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850860


> QUOTE (SugarBob62 @ Nov 13 2009, 12:03 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850665





> Well she is on the AMA breeder list...that is where I got her information. So I thought that was reputable and a good list to go by? And she's been breeding Maltese for over 40 years, and like I said remembered Andy's breeder from back in the day. So I assume she knows about Maltese.[/B]


QUOTE (Starsmom @ Nov 13 2009, 01:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850828


> Staying with the breeders on the AMA list, and the ones recommended by the members here you cannot go wrong. :Good luck: in your search for your next fluff.[/color][/B]


It is NOT enough to look at the AMA list. (I want to be careful here when I say this and qualify my statement as I have no direct knowledge about the breeder you found there. I do not know Carol Neth other than from reading about her in the books from years ago. I am surprised to know she is still breeding since I have not heard anything about her having a dog in the ring in a very long time).

The AMA list is a starting place, but it is only one tool in the research. Some wonderful breeders are not on the AMA list and some not so wonderful breeders are. Once you are an AMA member, there are no tests to determine your status. So say for example, someone applies to the AMA when they are eagerly beginning their show/breeding career, 10 years down the line they have gotten sick of showing and maybe even sick of learning more about breeding, but they want to make money off the dogs. They become a Greeder. AMA membership is not a way to guarantee that the person is not motivated by greed. They sign an ethics agreement when they join. But you have to ask them questions and do your research to determine if they continue to live up to the ethical standards you believe they should. 

I do not know if he was ever in the AMA. But years back there was a man by the name Micheal Wolf. He was famous for the quality of show dogs he produced. His maltese are behind most of our dogs as Marcirs and other well-known kennel names go back to his program, but then something happened to change him. He became something disturbing. He bred tons of different breeds of dogs and was motivated by greed. He become a puppy-mill. There are other stories like his. 

I feel like too often we try to generalize about what people must do when they look for a new dog. The reality is that it is an individual process. It is important for everyone to find a set of ethics that you believe breeders should live up to. There are many lists online to read that can help you do this. Then you have to find someone who is living up to those ethics you feel are most important to you. 

Yes, this will narrow down your options. That is a good thing. And if you are careful in your search it may take longer than you would prefer it to, but the right dog and the right breeder are worth the wait. Not only are you investing in the purchase price of the dog, for years to come you will be investing your time and your money in the care and comfort of your beloved friend. You want to start off with all the odds in your favor for a long and happy life together. 

[/B][/QUOTE]

:goodpost: 
You are so right. I don't believe that Michael of Mike-Mar was a member of the AMA. He always had at least 2 or 3 breeds at the same time. 
Corina is right. I know of very popular breeders who were members of the AMA, and was asked to leave. Different reasons why they were asked to leave. Because of that, it is hard to find sponsors. It is hard to get accepted into the AMA after you have been in the breeding of Maltese for awhile. I live in no-where land and the AMA requires a Kennel Visit. The closest member to me was burned before as a sponsor, so .......... And it is political on who gets in and who doesn't. 
Tina


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## Carole (Nov 1, 2005)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Nov 12 2009, 09:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850677


> QUOTE (SugarBob62 @ Nov 12 2009, 11:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850674





> I dunno? Unless my mom misunderstood her. I guess we will find out tomorrow. We are still going to go and see...because otherwise we'll never get anywhere. I guess that is all you can do.
> 
> I'm just saying in my personal searches, I'm not find many if any breeders that strictly have maltese ONLY. I mean even Andy's breeder had Yorkies too...and we had no problems with her, I think she was a wonderful breeder. So I don't think that just because they have multiple kinds of dogs it's necessarily bad. Maybe 1 or 2 kinds, 3 at the most? The mixed part I'm not sure about...but it does seem to be the "in" thing lately...though I don't understand how they are just as expensive as purebred dogs...thats the part I don't get. :huh:[/B]


i think if they are doing justice to all breeds they have, then it's great.  But if they are mixing those breeds they have, it's not so great, IMO. And would be a breeder I would avoid, if it were me.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I agree.


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## 1malt4me (Oct 6, 2006)

From what I have heard been on the AMA list simply mean you belong to the club.
I don't agree with your statement that there aren't very many Maltese only breeders, they are out there and one thing is to breed 2 pure breeds than to breed mutts. Anyone who breeds mutts I would stay away from. One of the people you listed recently was found to have bred a litter of Maltese and I think Poms so I would stay away from her too.

It sounds to me like you are all over the place with your search. Pick 1 or 2 breeders do your homework, talk to them, go see the puppies if they are not what you want pick 1 or 2 more and so on. Some of the breeders you listed I wouldn't go to and that was based on my search and my feeling about them and their practices after talking to them. 
Good luck
Dee

QUOTE (SugarBob62 @ Nov 13 2009, 12:03 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850665


> Well she is on the AMA breeder list...that is where I got her information. So I thought that was reputable and a good list to go by? And she's been breeding Maltese for over 40 years, and like I said remembered Andy's breeder from back in the day. So I assume she knows about Maltese.
> I am finding mixes in A LOT of places in my searching. There aren't very many, Maltese only breeders from what I am finding. If that is the case...we are running out of options of places to contact or go to. :huh: And that is discouraging...[/B]


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

I agree you should narrow the search a little. Evidently both you and your mother are doing this search, which adds some confusion. Are you an adult, or teen living at home? No negetative implied.

Keep an open mind in regard to size. My first got to 12 lbs. so to me a 5 lb. dog seemed like too small--that is not my feeling now. Shoni is 7 lbs., but a little heavy now for his size. I still would not want a really tiny (2-3 lbs.) one, but standard is 4-7 and 5 is about perfect to me.

I'm glad to see people post that the AMA list isn't the list to 'end all'.....it is a great help, but no club has perfect members, and not all good breeders are members. For various reasons some people aren't joiners. The same is true of breeders with or without websites. Websites do help us find names and how to contact, but they don't mean they are a better place to get a puppy.

All these things make it hard to feel like you are doing the best to know what you are getting and what kind of person you are getting your puppy from,--I know. I've been here (SM) and a Maltese owner for many years and still don't feel like I can give advice on where to go. I know some names I've heard enough about to think I'd avoid--but don't have personal experience with even those people--so the things you hear may not be so. 

You seem to know the basics for this search, so do your research, ask questions, and when you spy a puppy that sounds right you can then zero in on that breeder with you further questions.

The only breeder I have personal experience with is Shoni's. She is Mary Ann at Avante Maltese. She is a sweet person who loves her dogs and does the best she knows for them. I can't guarantee every dog she breeds, but mine is an amazing, smart, lovable guy I would not part with under any circumstances! As time goes by and judges in the ring change their focus and the breeders acquire new breeding dogs to keep up, the puppies will change some too. When I got my first Maltese in 1992 the sought after "style" was quite different than today.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

QUOTE (1malt4me @ Nov 14 2009, 10:33 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=851036


> *From what I have heard been on the AMA list simply mean you belong to the club.*I don't agree with your statement that there aren't very many Maltese only breeders, they are out there and one thing is to breed 2 pure breeds than to breed mutts. Anyone who breeds mutts I would stay away from. One of the people you listed recently was found to have bred a litter of Maltese and I think Poms so I would stay away from her too.
> 
> It sounds to me like you are all over the place with your search. Pick 1 or 2 breeders do your homework, talk to them, go see the puppies if they are not what you want pick 1 or 2 more and so on. Some of the breeders you listed I wouldn't go to and that was based on my search and my feeling about them and their practices after talking to them.
> Good luck
> ...





> Well she is on the AMA breeder list...that is where I got her information. So I thought that was reputable and a good list to go by? And she's been breeding Maltese for over 40 years, and like I said remembered Andy's breeder from back in the day. So I assume she knows about Maltese.
> I am finding mixes in A LOT of places in my searching. There aren't very many, Maltese only breeders from what I am finding. If that is the case...we are running out of options of places to contact or go to. :huh: And that is discouraging...[/B]


[/B][/QUOTE]

Regarding the AMA list ... I think it is more than just "belonging to the club". There are standards that members are supposed to meet and adhere to in order to be admitted to membership. Perhaps some of the AMA members here can chime in.


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## notori (Mar 21, 2005)

QUOTE (CloudClan @ Nov 13 2009, 03:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850860


> QUOTE (SugarBob62 @ Nov 13 2009, 12:03 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850665





> Well she is on the AMA breeder list...that is where I got her information. So I thought that was reputable and a good list to go by? And she's been breeding Maltese for over 40 years, and like I said remembered Andy's breeder from back in the day. So I assume she knows about Maltese.[/B]


QUOTE (Starsmom @ Nov 13 2009, 01:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=850828


> Staying with the breeders on the AMA list, and the ones recommended by the members here you cannot go wrong. :Good luck: in your search for your next fluff.[/color][/B]


It is NOT enough to look at the AMA list. (I want to be careful here when I say this and qualify my statement as I have no direct knowledge about the breeder you found there. I do not know Carol Neth other than from reading about her in the books from years ago. I am surprised to know she is still breeding since I have not heard anything about her having a dog in the ring in a very long time).

The AMA list is a starting place, but it is only one tool in the research. Some wonderful breeders are not on the AMA list and some not so wonderful breeders are. Once you are an AMA member, there are no tests to determine your status. So say for example, someone applies to the AMA when they are eagerly beginning their show/breeding career, 10 years down the line they have gotten sick of showing and maybe even sick of learning more about breeding, but they want to make money off the dogs. They become a Greeder. AMA membership is not a way to guarantee that the person is not motivated by greed. They sign an ethics agreement when they join. But you have to ask them questions and do your research to determine if they continue to live up to the ethical standards you believe they should. 

I do not know if he was ever in the AMA. But years back there was a man by the name Micheal Wolf. He was famous for the quality of show dogs he produced. His maltese are behind most of our dogs as Marcirs and other well-known kennel names go back to his program, but then something happened to change him. He became something disturbing. He bred tons of different breeds of dogs and was motivated by greed. He become a puppy-mill. There are other stories like his. 

I feel like too often we try to generalize about what people must do when they look for a new dog. The reality is that it is an individual process. It is important for everyone to find a set of ethics that you believe breeders should live up to. There are many lists online to read that can help you do this. Then you have to find someone who is living up to those ethics you feel are most important to you. 

Yes, this will narrow down your options. That is a good thing. And if you are careful in your search it may take longer than you would prefer it to, but the right dog and the right breeder are worth the wait. Not only are you investing in the purchase price of the dog, for years to come you will be investing your time and your money in the care and comfort of your beloved friend. You want to start off with all the odds in your favor for a long and happy life together.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Carina,
Good post and very true. One has to search out and do their homework before getting a pup. There are always one or two bad apples in any organization. Take your time and wait for the right pup.
Char
Notori~Maltese


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