# London Sick Frequently



## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

I need your expert opinions, experiences, and suggestions, please...

London is 3 years old and has always periodically had an upset stomach and very soft stool that will last for 24hrs or less. It used to only happen occasionally, maybe every 3 months or so. For the last 6 months I would say, it has become much more frequent...almost weekly.

Her symptoms are a gurgly stomach, she feels warmer to the touch on her ears & belly, and she gets diarrhea. Sometimes it will start out fairly firm, but then progress into diarrhea as the day goes on. I have to watch her 100% of the time when she is feeling ill because when she gets the urge to go poop, she can't hold it in long and will "explode" inside if she can't get out right away. London refuses to eat any food and drink any water when she is ill like this, so I give her dropperfuls of water every 30min or so. Either by the end of the day, or by the next morning, she is 100% fine. Then it will suddenly happen again a week later, sometimes less than that, sometimes longer than that.

We have not changed her food at all, she is on Acana Pacifica, and we stopped giving her ANY treats, whether they are dog treats or veggies. We even stopped giving London her bully sticks & other chews (other than the antlers) because I was curious if that's what was causing her problem.

Another thought I had was that she just needs to eat more frequently (rather than the usual 2x per day) so we have been making sure she eats a little before bed (10pm) and then get up early at 5am to give her the opportunity to eat again. These feedings are on top of the usual breakfast & dinner feedings. It doesn't seem to solve the problem.

I will be taking her to the vet sometime soon if it continues, and was curious if I should ask for bloodwork & also take a stool sample with me? I just can't imagine what could be wrong. I even thought maybe it was anxiety when my husband goes to work, but she is ill today on Sunday and he is home right next to her. I also wondered about a parasite or something, but the next day she is always fine. She does not get into anything outside, we take her potty on a leash in our fenced backyard 100% of the time.

I would really appreciate any experiences you've had with something similar, or well wishes even! You are all so wonderful!


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Do you think a food with less protein would work better??? I don't know anything, but I do know my dogs wouldn't eat the acana....maybe you could try mixing in another food....just as an experiment....


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## poochie2 (Jan 14, 2010)

My malt was ill on Acana Pacifica. She had soft stool and developed  a UTI as well.
Honestly, for such a small dog the protein content is too high. Moderate protein is a better choice. I give my malt 1/4cup at 9am and then at 6pm. During the day a few veggies here and there and then before bed a doggie cookie.


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

The A Team said:


> Do you think a food with less protein would work better??? I don't know anything, but I do know my dogs wouldn't eat the acana....maybe you could try mixing in another food....just as an experiment....





poochie2 said:


> My malt was ill on Acana Pacifica. She had soft stool and developed a UTI as well.
> Honestly, for such a small dog the protein content is too high. Moderate protein is a better choice. I give my malt 1/4cup at 9am and then at 6pm. During the day a few veggies here and there and then before bed a doggie cookie.


They have both been on Acana Pacifica for over a year, and before that were on Orijen for a short while but that was too high in protein; Their other long-term food was Natural Balance Sweet Potato & Venison but it just does not have enough nutrients in my opinion. But, she was sick like this even on that food which is much lower protein.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Lisa - I don't have any ideas or suggestions but just wanted to say how bad I feel that this happens to London. Hope it's something simple to fix and you'll get some more guidance here. Sending prayers.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I would check a stool sample at least. 

Then I would start with switching the diet to a novel protein/carb content and find something with a lower fat content than her current food. That is a simple way to try to address a dietary component to her tummy troubles. 

On a side note, Soda had elevated kidney values on Acana.


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

Lacy had issues with that a couple years ago. She ended up having inflammatory bowel disease, a clostridium infection, and hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease). After treating it and changing her diet, she's been doing great.


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## revakb2 (Sep 8, 2006)

I am so sorry London is having tummy issues. Bogie goes through the same thing, but less frequently. With him it happens a few times a year. It usually requires a trip to the vet to stop the diarrhea. After a shot and some meds he is OK again. I really think it is food related, but I can't attribute to any particular food. Any new food or treat can cause a problem. So far he has done best on Natural Balance small breed kibble and a little canned mixed in. He definitely can't eat a high protein dog food.
Since this doesn't happen very frequently, we have only tested stool samples. Nothing shows up there. I sure hope you can figure out to get London nice and healthy again. Bogie says - MY little Valentine can't be sick.


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

myfairlacy said:


> Lacy had issues with that a couple years ago. She ended up having inflammatory bowel disease, a clostridium infection, and hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease). After treating it and changing her diet, she's been doing great.


What type of testing was done on her to show that she had those issues (bloodwork? stool sample?) What kind of diet do you feed Lacy now? You homecook, don't you? I'm really glad to hear that Lacy was diagnosed properly and is now doing great.


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## uniquelovdolce (Mar 10, 2010)

aww i am of no help but just praying u find the cause n the cure for londons tummy troubles


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## PreciousPrince (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm sorry London has been having issues, I don't have ideas, I just wanted to share a product that helps Perri if he gets an upset tummy - it's called Animal Essentials Ginger Mint formula. They also have a product called phytomucil which might help as well-they don't have much info on their site but you could call and ask, also Crystal sells their supps. so she would know more too.
I hope you can find out what's causing it, and maybe this will help settle it in the meantime.


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

PreciousPrince said:


> I'm sorry London has been having issues, I don't have ideas, I just wanted to share a product that helps Perri if he gets an upset tummy - it's called Animal Essentials Ginger Mint formula. They also have a product called phytomucil which might help as well-they don't have much info on their site but you could call and ask, also Crystal sells their supps. so she would know more too.
> I hope you can find out what's causing it, and maybe this will help settle it in the meantime.


 

I give mine the ginger/mint tonic when their tummy is gurgling or if they are burping quite a bit and it helps, much like giving a pepcid, but better.


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

LJSquishy said:


> What type of testing was done on her to show that she had those issues (bloodwork? stool sample?) What kind of diet do you feed Lacy now? You homecook, don't you? I'm really glad to hear that Lacy was diagnosed properly and is now doing great.


well, we originally thought it was a liver issue like MVD. Her bile acid test came back somewhat high (50s for pre and post) and so we pursued the liver issue. On ultrasound her liver looked odd and we did a liver biopsy...diagnosis came back hepatic lipidosis. But no MVD. The vets were kindof stumped because that is more of a cat disease, not dog. We sent bloodwork and a stool sample to the GI lab where she was diagnosed with the clostridium infection, and her folate and cobalamine levels were low in her blood which suggested something going on with the intestines. 

There was some literature/studies out there that linked hepatic lipidosis as a secondary issue for people that have Inflammatory Bowel Disease so we went with that for Lacy. I just started treating her for Inflammatory Bowel Disease....we did rounds of antibiotics, vitamin B injections, and I gave her a probiotic for a while. I also went to homecooking...changed from a raw diet (high protein and high fat) to homecooked which was moderate protein and moderate fat.


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

myfairlacy said:


> well, we originally thought it was a liver issue like MVD. Her bile acid test came back somewhat high (50s for pre and post) and so we pursued the liver issue. On ultrasound her liver looked odd and we did a liver biopsy...diagnosis came back hepatic lipidosis. But no MVD. The vets were kindof stumped because that is more of a cat disease, not dog. We sent bloodwork and a stool sample to the GI lab where she was diagnosed with the clostridium infection, and her folate and cobalamine levels were low in her blood which suggested something going on with the intestines.
> 
> There was some literature/studies out there that linked hepatic lipidosis as a secondary issue for people that have Inflammatory Bowel Disease so we went with that for Lacy. I just started treating her for Inflammatory Bowel Disease....we did rounds of antibiotics, vitamin B injections, and I gave her a probiotic for a while. I also went to homecooking...changed from a raw diet (high protein and high fat) to homecooked which was moderate protein and moderate fat.


Thank you so much for explaining in detail how you went about trying to diagnose her. It will give me somewhere to start when I do take her in & speak with our veterinarian.


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

PreciousPrince said:


> I'm sorry London has been having issues, I don't have ideas, I just wanted to share a product that helps Perri if he gets an upset tummy - it's called Animal Essentials Ginger Mint formula. They also have a product called phytomucil which might help as well-they don't have much info on their site but you could call and ask, also Crystal sells their supps. so she would know more too.
> I hope you can find out what's causing it, and maybe this will help settle it in the meantime.


Yes, I've heard a few of you mentioning that the ginger/mint tonic really does help, I may need to look into that! Thanks!


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## njdrake (Apr 23, 2007)

Lisa, I'm sorry to hear about London's problems. I had the same things with Zoey for about a year and a half. I took her to the vet and she ended up seeing 5 different vets. We had every test ran they could think of and no one could figure out what was wrong, her test always came back good. She would get sick and then feel better and like London, at first it was spread apart but got more frequent with time. I took her to Ohio State and they diagnosed her with IBD. The test is intrusive so we decided to go with a test diet first. They were pretty sure that's what she had. She got better almost immediately. She's doing great now and that's been over 3 years ago. I have to keep her on a low fat diet. I have switched foods some but still stay with the low fat. London symptoms sound so much like Zoey. From what I understand most dogs will throw up with IBD and Zoey did but not much, she mostly had an upset stomach and a terrible diarrhea. She would get so bad right before we found out what it was that she would have a lot of blood in her stool. When she felt bad she wouldn't eat anything and would have the gurgling sounds. 
I hope you figure out what's going on with London soon. Its so frustrating when they get sick and you don't know why. Let us know how she is.


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

njdrake said:


> Lisa, I'm sorry to hear about London's problems. I had the same things with Zoey for about a year and a half. I took her to the vet and she ended up seeing 5 different vets. We had every test ran they could think of and no one could figure out what was wrong, her test always came back good. She would get sick and then feel better and like London, at first it was spread apart but got more frequent with time. I took her to Ohio State and they diagnosed her with IBD. The test is intrusive so we decided to go with a test diet first. They were pretty sure that's what she had. She got better almost immediately. She's doing great now and that's been over 3 years ago. I have to keep her on a low fat diet. I have switched foods some but still stay with the low fat. London symptoms sound so much like Zoey. From what I understand most dogs will throw up with IBD and Zoey did but not much, she mostly had an upset stomach and a terrible diarrhea. She would get so bad right before we found out what it was that she would have a lot of blood in her stool. When she felt bad she wouldn't eat anything and would have the gurgling sounds.
> I hope you figure out what's going on with London soon. Its so frustrating when they get sick and you don't know why. Let us know how she is.


London also has some blood in her stool sometimes. It just seems odd that this is so unpredictable, you would think if something were actually wrong that she would be sick all of the time. I know for a fact that tomorrow she will be back to her normal self and really hungry for breakfast. :huh:

What food do you feed Zoey now? It does sound like she had the same sort of thing going on, and I know how difficult IBD can be to officially diagnose.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Lisa, I'm sorry to here thast London is having tummy trouble. My first Malt had the same problems. I would have the vet do a complete blood panel, check liver and kidney function... Secondly, I would not feed Acana. It sounds like it is too rich for her. My Noah had liver issues and got to where he could not tolerate a commercial diet. I had to home cook for him, but he did well and made it to almost 11 years. Ask your vet for protein/fat/carb amounts for London. Definitely take London to the vet and let us know how she is. :grouphug:


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## donnad (Aug 22, 2006)

Poor London...I hope you can ge to the bottom of what's ailing her.


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## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

No advice either but I hope she is feeling better and you can find a solution soon.


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## Bailey&Me (Mar 8, 2010)

Lisa, I'm so sorry to hear that poor London is having tummy issues  I'm sorry I can't be of much help but I did want to say that you may want to try the ginger/mint tonic with her...I spoke in detail with Crystal after Bailey got sick and she was kind enough to give me such helpful advice with picking a diet and supplements that would be easy on Bailey's tummy. She recommended the ginger/mint tonic to us and I have been giving it to Bailey every day, ten minutes before his meals...and it's been helping settle his stomach. Of course, Bailey's case was completely different...and right now, his reflux is what I'm trying to manage. With London, I would first try to run tests to see if the vet can find what's causing this...then you can choose the appropriate supplements to help manage it. I'm curious to know what it could be...because, as you said, if it's something like IBD, wouldn't she be showing symptoms all the time and not just randomly once a week or once a month? 

Question - do you use probiotics for Preston and London? That also may be something you might want to start them on if you don't already. 

Please keep us updated on London. Hope your vet can get to the bottom of this and get her on her way to 100% better soon!!


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## the.shewolf (Jan 7, 2011)

I can't help sorry, but will be hoping and praying for an answer!


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

Lisa I hope London is feeling better, awntie sends loves:smootch::wub2:


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

Thank you all for your suggestions, experiences, & get well wishes. London is 100% back to normal today and is doing well. I am starting to research IBD, looking into the AE Ginger/Mint Tonic, & looking into possible diet changes to try. The only grain-free, low fat diet I've found so far is Wellness Core Reduced-Fat. Some of the other "reduced-fat" brands are just as high in fat as what they are currently on (Acana Pacifica). She does not have a poultry allergy that I know of, so I shouldn't have to worry about that aspect in food at least.

She is due for her annual checkup in a month or so, so if she does fine until then I will have some tests done & speak with her vet when we go in for her vaccines.

Thank you all!


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## KAG (Jun 1, 2006)

Aww, glad to hear baby girl is feeling better today. Yes, Lisa. Try to remember to bring a stool sample when you go to your appointment.
xoxoxoxooxoxoxoxo


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

LJSquishy said:


> Thank you all for your suggestions, experiences, & get well wishes. London is 100% back to normal today and is doing well. I am starting to research IBD, looking into the AE Ginger/Mint Tonic, & looking into possible diet changes to try. The only grain-free, low fat diet I've found so far is Wellness Core Reduced-Fat. Some of the other "reduced-fat" brands are just as high in fat as what they are currently on (Acana Pacifica). She does not have a poultry allergy that I know of, so I shouldn't have to worry about that aspect in food at least.
> 
> She is due for her annual checkup in a month or so, so if she does fine until then I will have some tests done & speak with her vet when we go in for her vaccines.
> 
> Thank you all!


Lisa, Wellness Core reduced fat is what I feed my girls. I have not had any problems with it. I'm glad London is feeling better and I hope the food agrees with her.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

If she were mine, I would take a stool sample in and do a blood panel to rule out anything else. If test results are fine and they are leaning towards IBS or even IBD, because the liver biopsy for IBD is so invasive, I would just treat it like that is what she has and see if there is an improvement. If there is no improvement then I would continue to do more testing. This is what I would do to treat her like she has IBS or IBD. I would switch her to a SOFT or CANNED LIMITED diet. No kibble until her G.I. System is fully healed. A limited diet is one protein and one carb only and then they add vitamins and minerals to make it complete. Be careful of the fat content & protein count in kibble. I don't worry about protein count in canned due to all the moisture. I would choose one that uses a good starchy veggie for the carb and not rice or pasta. I like Addiction's Canned Herbed Duck Confitt. It has only duck and sweet potato in it. I would also add a good plant based probiotic. It's important that it be plant based because an animal based one can actually cause some digestive issues when dealing with IBS or IBD type symptoms. I would also add the LIQUID Phytomucil to aid in the healing process of the Upper GI system. No treats other then something that is either the protein or the carb that is in the limited diet food you choose. And then whenever you hear tummy gurgles, get out the Ginger/Mint Tonic asap. I had Jett on this regimen for over a year and now he's totally fine and can eat anything. He is the one to get a bit urpy every once in awhile compared to my other 2 but whenever I hear those tummy rumbles, I give him the Ginger/Mint and so far we've not had any of those horrible days of diarrhea and tummy upsets like we had that first year.

Poor London. I hope you can start to see an improvement in her soon. I just hate it when they aren't feeling well.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

I will read through thread but my first instinct from reading this is inflammatory bowel disease and she needs to be on a no grain simple diet but I will read and see if more comes to mind.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> If she were mine, I would take a stool sample in and do a blood panel to rule out anything else. If test results are fine and they are leaning towards IBS or even IBD, because the liver biopsy for IBD is so invasive, I would just treat it like that is what she has and see if there is an improvement. If there is no improvement then I would continue to do more testing. This is what I would do to treat her like she has IBS or IBD. I would switch her to a SOFT or CANNED LIMITED diet. No kibble until her G.I. System is fully healed. A limited diet is one protein and one carb only and then they add vitamins and minerals to make it complete. Be careful of the fat content & protein count in kibble. I don't worry about protein count in canned due to all the moisture. I would choose one that uses a good starchy veggie for the carb and not rice or pasta. I like Addiction's Canned Herbed Duck Confitt. It has only duck and sweet potato in it. I would also add a good plant based probiotic. It's important that it be plant based because an animal based one can actually cause some digestive issues when dealing with IBS or IBD type symptoms. I would also add the LIQUID Phytomucil to aid in the healing process of the Upper GI system. No treats other then something that is either the protein or the carb that is in the limited diet food you choose. And then whenever you hear tummy gurgles, get out the Ginger/Mint Tonic asap. I had Jett on this regimen for over a year and now he's totally fine and can eat anything. He is the one to get a bit urpy every once in awhile compared to my other 2 but whenever I hear those tummy rumbles, I give him the Ginger/Mint and so far we've not had any of those horrible days of diarrhea and tummy upsets like we had that first year.
> 
> Poor London. I hope you can start to see an improvement in her soon. I just hate it when they aren't feeling well.


you mean intestinal biopsy I think not liver biopsy? yes i would not do a endoscopy for ibd as it is pretty obvious when it is occuring and if blood work is normal this is usually the cause. Although dogs with ibd can have elevated amylase and lipase as well and can have abnormal spec cpli. It goes hand in hand alot of times with pancreas issues. This sounds like large intestinal ibd to me as no vomitting only diarrhea and dex has it in small intestines so he always vomitted foods he could not tolerate. 

I would go with a food like natural balance venison and sweet potato and do that for 12 weeks and nothing else and see if you see a change. I did a consult with susan davis and she has seen great results with dogs on this diet with ibd. She deals with alot of yorkies and they have alot of intestinal issues.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

LJSquishy said:


> They have both been on Acana Pacifica for over a year, and before that were on Orijen for a short while but that was too high in protein; Their other long-term food was Natural Balance Sweet Potato & Venison but it just does not have enough nutrients in my opinion. But, she was sick like this even on that food which is much lower protein.


interesting she was sick on the venison and sweet potato? Hmmm as that one usually works well for this. Was she eating wet or dry?

I would try this one then as this is a new formula and bison is lower in fat

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/BisonDog.html

also every morning I would mix probiotics in with some organic pumpkin 20-30 min before feeding breakfast.

SIBO also comes to mind when you say stomach rumbling as my friends yorkie did this as well and she has ibd, sibo and pancreas issues.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

Bailey&Me said:


> Lisa, I'm so sorry to hear that poor London is having tummy issues  I'm sorry I can't be of much help but I did want to say that you may want to try the ginger/mint tonic with her...I spoke in detail with Crystal after Bailey got sick and she was kind enough to give me such helpful advice with picking a diet and supplements that would be easy on Bailey's tummy. She recommended the ginger/mint tonic to us and I have been giving it to Bailey every day, ten minutes before his meals...and it's been helping settle his stomach. Of course, Bailey's case was completely different...and right now, his reflux is what I'm trying to manage. With London, I would first try to run tests to see if the vet can find what's causing this...then you can choose the appropriate supplements to help manage it. I'm curious to know what it could be...because, as you said, if it's something like IBD, wouldn't she be showing symptoms all the time and not just randomly once a week or once a month?
> 
> Question - do you use probiotics for Preston and London? That also may be something you might want to start them on if you don't already.
> 
> Please keep us updated on London. Hope your vet can get to the bottom of this and get her on her way to 100% better soon!!


with ibd it can take time for it to react. Dex could be on a food for a month with no issue then all of a sudden vomit a ton up at once so it will not necessarily happen all the time. It is like it builds up then explodes either in vomitting or diarrhea depending on what area of the digestive tract it affects. It is a food intolerance so the body is rejecting it or unable to fully digest it properly.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

LJSquishy said:


> Thank you all for your suggestions, experiences, & get well wishes. London is 100% back to normal today and is doing well. I am starting to research IBD, looking into the AE Ginger/Mint Tonic, & looking into possible diet changes to try. The only grain-free, low fat diet I've found so far is Wellness Core Reduced-Fat. Some of the other "reduced-fat" brands are just as high in fat as what they are currently on (Acana Pacifica). She does not have a poultry allergy that I know of, so I shouldn't have to worry about that aspect in food at least.
> 
> She is due for her annual checkup in a month or so, so if she does fine until then I will have some tests done & speak with her vet when we go in for her vaccines.
> 
> Thank you all!


I would not use chicken or beef as ibd and allergies are tied together also and many ibd dogs cannot tolerate tolerate chicken or beef just like allergy dogs cannot. Dexter vomitted up chicken so I tried it and definitely confirmed he cannot eat chicken and internal medicine specialist told me he probably would not as she sees this with most ibd dogs


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