# Is it too late to socialize?!?!



## Bailey Luda (Feb 14, 2006)

Unfortunately because of my schedule with class and work, I haven't been able to get him into a training class for socialization and he is just such a barker when we go for walks or run into our neighbors lab mix. Our neighbors dog is so sweet and well mannered, sitting patiently despite Bailey's bully barking and charging at him







... doesn't bit him but is going at him like crazy... it soooo embarrassing that he behaves this way!!!







We discourage it and try to make him sit but he just gets in this state where he is not listening to anyone and is just focused on barking up a storm!









He does it when we pass other dogs or kids/people on our walk, looking out of our front window and bark at any movement outside... I am at a loss of what to do.







When he does it on the walk, I say "no bark" and shorten his leash so he can't pull and then just keep redirecting his attention to walking forwards. When people are passing with their dog, I am sure to walk between Bailey and the passer-byes. Sometimes I make him sit and tell him "Shhhh NO BARK" & "settle down"









I am desperate to get him in a class but the beginner ones are only offered during the week and not the weekend which makes it really difficult for me. My husband is as busy too and often gone because he's in the military so it falls on my shoulder for the most part to take care of the furbutt.

Any suggestions out there? Anyone else feel my pain?









~ Leslie


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## Ant Nay (Mar 21, 2005)

> Unfortunately because of my schedule with class and work, I haven't been able to get him into a training class for socialization and he is just such a barker when we go for walks or run into our neighbors lab mix. Our neighbors dog is so sweet and well mannered, sitting patiently despite Bailey's bully barking and charging at him
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We are going through the same issues with our 1 year old and he has been to a puppy class and did well, but he is so bad on walks and so on that we have to leave him in the house when we go for a walk...he just gets into this "zone" and you can not stop him. I actually posted a few more details about it in the behavior section of the forum...we think it is a seperation and protection thing that is causing it...good luck with everything


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## Fenway's Momma (Dec 6, 2005)

Fenway is like this with other dogs as well. We are bringing him to play groups with other malts and yorkies once a month trying to get him to play with other dogs his size. 

When we go on walks he barks at other dogs, runners, people on bikes and any thing funny looking. I think this stems from being scared and thinking he needs to protect me. So right now we are working on our walks. I am trying to have him walk next to or behind me, so I am walking him, not him walking me. I have found the if he starts to get excited when he sees something I start telling him to calm down in a firm reassuring voice he generally does and won't bark. If he does bark, I try to step between him and the thing he is barking and keep walking. I tell him in a very firm voice no bark. This works better in the middle to end of the walk, but we are def. working on this issue to, I don't know if these things will help you too.

Let me know if you have any good tips, or if what I am doing isn't a good idea
Thanks, 
Renee and the beast


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Leslie - Bonnie went to obedience and agility classes late, she was about a year old when we started. Prior to that she did have a boyfriend, King. He was a black lab, and she adored him. But, she's very touch and go with other dogs. Sometimes she's fine, but it always seems like when she's in her bag (instead of being on the ground) she barks like crazy at times. For some strange reason, she won't bark on the street, but will always bark when we're in a store







When she's on the ground, she's usually okay, but she HATES when a male tries to mount her.







I think she's telling him "HEY - at least buy me dinner first!"


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## VioletDog (Mar 19, 2006)

We have this problem with Violet, who is 9 months old (and usually only goes out for only one long walk a day because she's paper trained) but I've seen some improvement. 

In addition to saying "no bark" I sometimes clamp her mouth (briefly and gently). I've also started saying "be nice" and pulling back on her leash as she approaches another dog to show her that if she isn't nice, I'm not going to let her near the other dog. I think she understands what that means now. I keep saying it the whole time she's with the other dog. This really seems to be working most of the time. I also lavish praise on her when she's good with other dogs.

The more they get out with other dogs, the better socialized they become. I never thought I'd go near a dog park but now we go once or twice a week to a dog run with dogs of all sizes, and that has helped too. (We live in the city, where there are lots of dog parks.) The first dozen or so times we brought her there, she cowered under a bench or she barked at every dog that came near her. Now she's starting to seek out other dogs and she runs along with them sometimes like she's trying to be part of the gang. She only barks at the ones who bark at her.

But every so often she still goes into attack mode with another dog at which point I yank on her leash (she has a halter, not a collar) and bend down and say a firm "no" right in her face. Sometimes I just pick her up and take her home at that point because she really likes going out so I'm hoping eventually she'll realize she loses the privilege when she acts like that.

Happily, she's wonderful with people of all ages and sizes.


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## brendaman (Mar 7, 2006)

We have a private trainer for Shayna. We've had a couple of sessions already and in the last session, I told the trainer that Shayna had become a yappy little puppy (she's 5 months old) and will yap at people, especially people walking their dogs and pull on the leash. In our session, he brought the bitter apple spray which I said she seemed to be immune to. The trainer put some on her tongue and she got the full taste of the bitter apple. Then when we went for our training walk, we would run into people and dogs. With people, before they even came within 10 feet of her, we had her sit down. She could only say hello to them (and vice versa) if she were calm, submissive. 

With people walking dogs, it was more of an issue and even though she would sit, we still had to spray the bitter apple in front of her face (not INTO her face). All she needed was to get a whiff of the stuff. She still kind of barked but it was more under her breathe (if you can imagine that!). With one particular dog, she just kept barking and barking, so we had her lie on her side and then asked the owner to have the dog approach her and sniff her. The dog (a lab) was calm submissive so, we were not worried that he would harm her. This put Shayna in a calm submissive position to the lab and she actually stopped the barking/challenging and just became a friendly little puppy. Shayna is quite a dominant little diva, so we know our work is cut out for us. 

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## corisu (Jan 18, 2006)

When walking my a dog, the main goal is to excercise him and create a sense of leadership with him so that he knows who is the boss. When I first started walking Yoshi, he has a tendency to wonder in the grass, bark at other people or dogs. I started off using a retractable leash and found out later it was hard to control him. So I switched to a 5ft leash. This gave me more control of him. I found out the best way to accomplish a good walk is to start off with a place where there is little distractions. Start off with gaining his interest by holding his favorite treat. Let him sniff it in your hands and move it away from him to hip level. When he looks up, start walking and keep him focused on the treat. After a few steps, reward him with it. Repeat this for about 8-10 times during the walk. The key here is to establish an interest or reward program between you and the dog. You don't have to do this for a long time, just enough to get him interested in paying attention to you. After a few of these walks, he will get the idea that there is a reward involved. I would not reward him all the time, but at random. That way, you keep him guessing. By keeping him guessing when the reward will come, it makes you a leader since you are controlling the situation. Once that is established, you can use it to control more distracting environments. 

When someone or a dog walks by and he starts to bark, stop the walk, get his attention, as soon as he looks up, say the command, "no barking" or whatever you prefer and reward him. By stopping the walk, you are letting your dog know that the fun stops when he "misbehaves" and when he pays attention to you, you immediately reward and praise him. You can use the phrase, "Good dog!" If he fails to look up, tug the leash a little and say firmly (not loud) "No, bad dog!" Try not to use his name when saying a praise or scolding him for bad behavior. That way, it will avoid him associating his name to the command so that he doesn't get scared if you call him by name or get excited because he thinks he will get a treat. Make your commands short so the dog can easily associate it. He will get the idea soon that he has to pay attention and listen to you, specifically when you use the word or command to stop barking in order to receive a treat. Again, don't reward him everytime because he will start to play games with you if he knows for sure that this will always result in a treat. Do this a few times. Keep this up and he will understand that if he doesn't bark at them, he can continue to walk and may get a treat. 

With this routine, you can expand it to more tricks and things he can do for you such as the wait command-so that he doesn't cross the street without the command. This is such an important command for his safety.

I hope this helps because it certainly has for Yoshi!

Mary


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## MaxMommy (Nov 1, 2005)

I don't think it's ever too late to introduce a dog to new experiences. It may just take more patience...and time.

As long as a dog does not feel threatened, he/she can adapt to any new situation...the key is...they should acknowledge the owner as the leader of the pack and so follow what the leader does...and not have to be on guard because that is the leaders job.

Without overwhelming them, I think they can be socialized. The more experiences they are exposed to, the less startled they will get with new situations. New noises, no locations, new people, new animals...anything and everything you can safely expose them to is a good thing. 

My Angie has been in my arms a foot away from my sister's macaw...a huge bird...she doesn't even bark at her. The macaw climbed on my shoulders before my sisters because I think seeing me with Angie made her feel more trusting...birds do size you up. And, it's great for Angie...because this is one loud bird...and it doesn't even phase Angie...she just hunts for the peanuts the bird drops...funniest thing.


Good luck.


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## MaxMommy (Nov 1, 2005)

p.s. - to stop the barking...when you say "no bark" and they stop, distract them from what they are barking at....and then a treat the second they stop.

I have to pick Angie up when she goes on a barking rampage, I just put a step stool by the chair by my window...so, the new thing for her was barking at strangers passing by. She does it less this week. But, I try to stop the barking right away.

She was barking at 2 bull dogs in petsmart, as soon as one of them approached her to sniff...Angie stopped barking...little chicken. the bull dogs were very friendly though...but this is part of socializing them. letting them see that it's not a threatening situation.


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## Boobookit (Dec 3, 2005)

I have been doing what I call the walk training with Pacino and it is working wonders. The key is to get him tired and exercising is the only way. Once he is exercised he is much more able to listen to commands. I try to walk him on the leash at least 35-45 minutes each walk and I try to do this once before work and then when I come home. On the days that I only do it in the pm that's ok.

I use a regular leash and I always go out and in the door first as I am portraying that *I* am the dominate one, the pack leader always exits and enters first. Then I stand and put him at my side. When I start to walk if he tries to get ahead of me then I give a short, not harsh sidways quick tug to get his attention and to keep him focused. Then I ALWAYS relax the leash. You will have to do this a few times to get his their attention. Dogs can only think of one thing at a time as they are not like humans. As we walk the leash is relaxed as this is important because if you are constantly pulling on the leash you are transmitting negative feelings to the pup that he/she will definitely pick up on.

If we pass another animal, we briskly keep walking, I try to keep him focused...we are on a mission! If he tries to wander towards them I do the little quick tug on the leash to get him focused again. 

This works!!!! I have walked past people, dogs, cats, kids (whom he loves) because he was focused. It takes time but it is well worth it. The key is to get him calm and submissive and exercise is the only thing that will do this. And when I say exercise I don't mean opening the back door and letting them run the yard, yes that is exercise, but it is excited exercise. A brisk walk is what tires them and makes them focused. 

Pacino for the most part walks at my heel, he sometimes forgets and tries to wander but I have noticed a huge difference in his behavior. Our little ones have a lot of energy for small guys and they need to do something with that energy. If they do not get the proper exercise then they get into things that they shouldn't. It isn't only good for him it is good for me in the weight loss never ending story!!

Take for instance the vet...Pacino hates going there. When I took him to get his neuter done he was horrible in the sitting room, barking at the other dogs because he wanted to play, he is the social butterfly. Today after keeping him (or trying to) quiet for 10 days with the stitches, I took him for an hour walk BEFORE going to the vet. We had to be there for 9 am so at 7:30 off we went. I was determined!!

His ride in his car seat was wonderful and when we got there he was perfect. He cried a few times when another dog came in but for the most part a "NO' was sufficient! He either sat and looked out the windows or he laid down and slept coming home! Although riding in the car seat has never been a issue because he loves it, but he was calm and submissive which is the key.

Hope this helps.

Marie & Pacino

Oh, and one more thing, it is never too late to do this, whether they are 11 monthsold like Pacino or 11 years old they can learn this!!


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## englishmajor13 (Jan 16, 2006)

> Unfortunately because of my schedule with class and work, I haven't been able to get him into a training class for socialization and he is just such a barker when we go for walks or run into our neighbors lab mix. Our neighbors dog is so sweet and well mannered, sitting patiently despite Bailey's bully barking and charging at him
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My Charlie Chaplin is the same way - HUGE bully!!!







He barks, growls and even kicks his back legs out like a little bull getting ready to charge. He does it to people, other dogs - whatever. The really sad thing is that he's BEEN to puppy classes and the whole time he just cowered between my feet. He's been everywhere with me - stores, relative's homes, we even took him on a road trip to Boston. He has puppy sitters on my long work days and has a german shephard best friend. I work at an animal clinic and he's been back an forth there with me several times. My coworkers keep telling me that he has to be socialized more but I really don't know what else to do??? I love him dearly







but I do feel your pain...


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## Baxter and Wally's Mom (Aug 18, 2005)

> Unfortunately because of my schedule with class and work, I haven't been able to get him into a training class for socialization and he is just such a barker when we go for walks or run into our neighbors lab mix. Our neighbors dog is so sweet and well mannered, sitting patiently despite Bailey's bully barking and charging at him
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Wow! I feel your pain!
You just described Baxter to a tee!


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## ilove_d&m (Apr 7, 2004)

> Bailey's bully barking and charging at him
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Maya and Daizie are the same way with dogs, runners, bicycles, kids and people with hats....
Now that they are getting older, at least for Daiezie who is 3, is change a little bit. she's learning to tolerate some of the trigers but NOT dogs. They both go crazy with other dogs....


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## maltx3 (Dec 23, 2004)

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I just spent the day with an certified animal behaviorist, Dr. Simmons, at Guelph University, our major veterinary college in Ontario, because I'm having the same problem with my dogs.(mostly my youngest, but the older two also bark at almost anything) She told me the barking and lunging are fear behaviors, and it is virtually impossible to get a dog to listen to you when he/she is in an aroused state with distractions from other dogs or people, etc. She advised me to to train for appropriate behavior when the dog is calm and undistracted. Example, sit and stay on command. Then train the dog to do it in 12 different locations (say 8 different rooms in your house (closets & bathrooms included), front yard, back yard, finally street and parkj) since they can't generalize like people do, & just because they do it in your livingroom doesn't mean they can do it outside or even in a different room in your house. Once they have the behavior correct almost 100% of the time, in 12 different locations then distractions should be added in starting very small and building as the dog is successful to each. By that time the dog will be used to listening to and obeying your command and you will have a much better chance of success in a highly charged situation. 

She also advised that until the dog has the appropriate behavior down pat, the best thing to do is to avoid the triggers that make them crazy. In my case, if another dog or person is approaching us on a walk, she advised me to instruct my dog "This Way" and make a 180 degree turn & go back the way I just came. The confrontation that Brie fears (another dog) is avoided & that way the she learns she is always "safe" with me as her leader. Dr. Simmons is a big fan of the head halters (gentle leader, halti, etc.) because they allow you to direct the dogs head to facilitate turning to look at you. She still wants the harness on, and a leash with 2 hooks is used, one connected to the head halter, and one to the back harness. 

She told me this simple training can be done for 3-5 minutes at a time, 4 times a day, so it is not too time consuming, but that it will take months (she said approx. 3 months) for the learned behavior to be reliable 100% of the time. I'm not sure if this applies to dogs that are not fear motivated, but the training for sit/stay would be helpful in any situation I'm sure. I'm hopeful this will work for us so we all can enjoy our walks.

I have my work cut out for me







 I'll be buying training treats in bulk I think







Pat


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## Bailey Luda (Feb 14, 2006)

That's great information!!! Thank you for sharing! Please post more tips and info you learn in your training session!!! 

Thanks!

~Leslie


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