# more conflicting advice



## ablack (Jun 9, 2009)

I went to a new groomer today who has been a groomer for twenty years now. She said the only reason you'd want to use a pin brush is if you are wanting to 'show' your maltese. Otherwise, you'd want to use a slicker brush with softer or gentle bristles. She showed me the difference between the two. Tobey did fine with the soft bristled slicker brush. She also said the pin brush is for long coats and Tobey's coat isn't long.


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

:bysmilie:


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

You can use a soft bristle slicker on your maltese if you are going to keep him in short coat, however it can cause breakage which just means you will have to keep his coat short. The pin brushes, especially Madan are wonderful for short or long coats. I love mine so much for my dogs I got one for me, too. I also have the Chris Christensen slicker brush, but only use it on feet and legs. The important thing is to get your dog used to being brushed regularly, make it pleasant and relaxing, and grooming should be a breeze for you and your groomer and you can eliminate those shocking shave downs. :shocked:


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

Yes, groomers have told me this too. When I took my first malt puppy to the groomers. I bought(we were at petsmart) a little slicker brush that she showed me because I didn't want her to use any brush that "other dogs" have used on my baby. She used it on my baby and she was yelping but the groomer kept saying, 'oh, she'll get used to it.' When we got Gigi, her breeder scolded us because we were using a snicker brush. Slickers aren't meant for dogs with double coats and she said it hurts our babies she said. I felt so bad I put my puppy through just because someone else told me it was okay, but it wasn't. :bysmilie: Now I do all my grooming, I don't trust anybody with MY baby. 

I think if you try it out on your arm first and if you think it doesn't hurt it's fine to use.


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## littlemissy (May 19, 2009)

:bysmilie: :bysmilie: :bysmilie:


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## ablack (Jun 9, 2009)

QUOTE


> I think if you try it out on your arm first and if you think it doesn't hurt it's fine to use.[/B]


That's what she suggested too. I tried that with two of her brushes, the soft one and the other and noticed the difference right off.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Jul 8 2009, 09:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=802959


> Yes, groomers have told me this too. When I took my first malt puppy to the groomers. I bought(we were at petsmart) a little slicker brush that she showed me because I didn't want her to use any brush that "other dogs" have used on my baby. She used it on my baby and she was yelping but the groomer kept saying, 'oh, she'll get used to it.' When we got Gigi, her breeder scolded us because we were using a snicker brush. Slickers aren't meant for dogs with double coats and she said it hurts our babies she said. Now I do all my grooming, I don't trust nobody with MY baby.
> 
> I think if you try it out on your arm first and if you think it doesn't hurt it's fine to use.[/B]


What do you mean by double coats?

Personally, I like slicker brushes for certain parts (like ears) but I don't use it excusvely, it doesn't matter if i'm working with a short or long coat. And not all slicker brushes are created equal either, so if you use one, make sure it's a softer one. Those things can hurt!

And just like all slicker brushes arent' created equal, neither are groomers. I would not take what they say as the 'ultimate authority' Did she/he do a good job though?


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

A lot of groomers use slicker brushes on single coated dogs unfortunately. Most groomers aren't really that knowledgeable about proper grooming for each breed though...which is why they do stupid things like shave between the eyes and cut topknots off without the owners consent..

I don't know why you wouldn't use a pin brush on a "pet"...if that's the proper brush you'd use on a dog for show, that's what you ought to use for a pet too. that comment just doesn't make any sense to me..only using a pin brush on show dogs. Slickers break the hair and can scratch the skin...I guess hair breakage wouldn't matter if you keep your dogs hair really short but there are a lot of people that keep their pets in medium-long coat lengths and a pin brush is best to use.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Jul 9 2009, 12:12 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=802967


> QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Jul 8 2009, 09:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=802959





> Yes, groomers have told me this too. When I took my first malt puppy to the groomers. I bought(we were at petsmart) a little slicker brush that she showed me because I didn't want her to use any brush that "other dogs" have used on my baby. She used it on my baby and she was yelping but the groomer kept saying, 'oh, she'll get used to it.' When we got Gigi, her breeder scolded us because we were using a snicker brush. Slickers aren't meant for dogs with double coats and she said it hurts our babies she said. Now I do all my grooming, I don't trust nobody with MY baby.
> 
> I think if you try it out on your arm first and if you think it doesn't hurt it's fine to use.[/B]


[/B][/QUOTE]

I meant double coated breeds, not single coated ones like maltese.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Just to hijack your thread for a moment.....

Since Tobey hasn't had all his shots yet at only 11-12 weeks old, he is really too young to be taken to a groomer. I think we discussed this in your other thread. Since his first shots were given at only 6 weeks old, they probably didn't take because he still had antibodies from nursing.

I posted this in your other thread, but I'll post it again as a gentle reminder. Tobey should have his last vaccines between 16-18 weeks old, then wait two more weeks, before he is most likely fully protected from deadly puppy diseases.

In one study of a cross section of different puppies the age at which they were able to respond to a vaccine and develop protection covered a wide period of time. At six weeks of age, 25% of the puppies could be immunized. At 9 weeks of age, 40% of the puppies were able to respond to the vaccine. The number increased to 60% by 16 weeks, and by 18 weeks of age, 95% of the puppies could be immunized. 

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1556&aid=467


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## KAG (Jun 1, 2006)

Marj is right on! 
xoxoxo


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## roxybaby22 (Feb 25, 2009)

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Jul 9 2009, 12:30 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=802977


> Just to hijack your thread for a moment.....
> 
> Since Tobey hasn't had all his shots yet at only 11-12 weeks old, he is really too young to be taken to a groomer. I think we discussed this in your other thread. Since his first shots were given at only 6 weeks old, they probably didn't take because he still had antibodies from nursing.
> 
> ...


:goodpost: I only use slickers for Roxy's feet. Every article I have read recommended using pin brushes (without the ball tips) and combs for Maltese hair.


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## ablack (Jun 9, 2009)

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Jul 9 2009, 12:30 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=802977


> Just to hijack your thread for a moment.....
> 
> Since Tobey hasn't had all his shots yet at only 11-12 weeks old, he is really too young to be taken to a groomer. I think we discussed this in your other thread. Since his first shots were given at only 6 weeks old, they probably didn't take because he still had antibodies from nursing.
> 
> ...


Again, another member said that it also depends on the timing of when a maltese is weaned. I called the breeder to see and she said he was weaned at 3 1/2 weeks of age. So when his first shots were given, they would have worked. I also talked to two different vets, not including Tobey's vet, who have said the same thing. They all said given the circumstances, Tobey was safe. (I appreciate your concern)

But back to topic. The groomer said, and other groomers I talked to said the same thing, that using a pin brush just smooths the coat out. She showed me a couple of samples of maltese coats she had to cut out because the owners used pin brushes instead of slicker brushes. They were sooo matted and thick, it was awful. She kept the samples in a baggy because she wanted to prove how it could damage. She said that you should only use a pin brush when in the show ring, or to not depend on it. The slicker seperates the hairs and keeps it from matting. In fact, since I started using the pin brush, the groomer found a few mats that were beginning to form, and I brushed his hair every day.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (ablack @ Jul 9 2009, 01:29 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803172


> QUOTE (LadysMom @ Jul 9 2009, 12:30 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=802977





> Just to hijack your thread for a moment.....
> 
> Since Tobey hasn't had all his shots yet at only 11-12 weeks old, he is really too young to be taken to a groomer. I think we discussed this in your other thread. Since his first shots were given at only 6 weeks old, they probably didn't take because he still had antibodies from nursing.
> 
> ...


Again, another member said that it also depends on the timing of when a maltese is weaned. I called the breeder to see and she said he was weaned at 3 1/2 weeks of age. So when his first shots were given, they would have worked. I also talked to two different vets, not including Tobey's vet, who have said the same thing. They all said given the circumstances, Tobey was safe. (I appreciate your concern)

But back to topic. The groomer said, and other groomers I talked to said the same thing, that using a pin brush just smooths the coat out. She showed me a couple of samples of maltese coats she had to cut out because the owners used pin brushes instead of slicker brushes. They were sooo matted and thick, it was awful. She kept the samples in a baggy because she wanted to prove how it could damage. She said that you should only use a pin brush when in the show ring, or to not depend on it. The slicker seperates the hairs and keeps it from matting. In fact, since I started using the pin brush, the groomer found a few mats that were beginning to form, and I brushed his hair every day.
[/B][/QUOTE]

With any brush you can have mats remain if you do not brush thoroughly - that is, through the entire coat. The problem with using slickers on a daily basis is they scratch the cuticle of the hair shaft and cause the hair to weaken or break off. Pin brushes are meant to
be used daily and throughly on the coat, be it short or long. Proper brushing is key. I would never use a slicker on a maltese as the hair is too fine and delicate as it is. I believe your groomer can use one because she only grooms the dog once a month or so. She sees dogs who are not properly brushed inbetween groomings, thus the mats and blame on the pin brush. It's the brusher, not the brush...OR perhaps they used the wrong brush or didn't brush often enough.


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

QUOTE (ablack @ Jul 9 2009, 11:29 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803172


> Again, another member said that it also depends on the timing of when a maltese is weaned. I called the breeder to see and she said he was weaned at 3 1/2 weeks of age. So when his first shots were given, they would have worked. I also talked to two different vets, not including Tobey's vet, who have said the same thing. They all said given the circumstances, Tobey was safe. (I appreciate your concern)
> 
> But back to topic. The groomer said, and other groomers I talked to said the same thing, that using a pin brush just smooths the coat out. She showed me a couple of samples of maltese coats she had to cut out because the owners used pin brushes instead of slicker brushes. They were sooo matted and thick, it was awful. She kept the samples in a baggy because she wanted to prove how it could damage. She said that you should only use a pin brush when in the show ring, or to not depend on it. The slicker seperates the hairs and keeps it from matting. In fact, since I started using the pin brush, the groomer found a few mats that were beginning to form, and I brushed his hair every day.[/B]



I would not take my puppy to a groomer or really any unsanitary public place where dogs frequent until 16-18 weeks of age. They are not FULLY immune until 2 weeks after their final puppy shot (16 weeks). I would not want to risk my puppy getting Parvo or distemper and dying because of my own negligence. I don't care when he was weaned... and I am sorry, but I highly doubt it was at 3 1/2 weeks of age. 

As for not using pin brushes... I don't own a slicker, period. There is not one in my house to even use. The handful of times Jax has been to the groomer she always comments on how wonderfully groomed he is and she never wants to cut his hair. She never finds mats. I use my pin brush as general every day-ish maintenance. I use a comb to remove mats, if there are any left. I don't want to break my dogs' coat. Kenzie I plan on keeping in full coat, but Jax is in a puppy cut. I still don't want to break his coat. I've seen groomers using slickers (Petsmart for example) and the dogs seem to be in pain. It makes me cringe. Many people don't know how to properly care for their dog's coat and that's why you find many Malts in a puppy cut and she has samples of mats from other people's dogs. I wouldn't rely on just a brush (slicker or pin), I need my comb to keep mats at bay.


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

I use a comb with rotating tines for the head,tail & body mostly & a slicker for the legs & feet. I start with a comb,then smooth over lightly with a pin brush,then slicker brush the legs & feet. I do use the pinbrush when I blowdry though.I don't use a brush on the head & ears,just combs.Rarely have any mats but I do keep them in short cuts except for the head,ears & tail. A groomer once recommended the slicker brush to me too for all over brushing.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

You have to be using the proper pin brush with proper brushing technique. Slicker will break the ends of the coat - period. If you keep in a puppy cut, a soft slicker is fine. If you want any length, you need to get a good pin brush (Madan is my preference). Brush through the entire coat to the skin and follow through with a greyhound comb to ensure you did not miss anything. 

Matted coats such as you describe come from the person only brushing the outter layer, not down to the skin OR not brushing regularly at all. Any brush they use if you do it that way you end with a matted dog. 

In general, I do not trust the average groomer's advice on how to maintain a unique coat like the Maltese coat. I can pretty much guarantee you they've never maintained one in coat. 

Don't twist my words on vaccines. My point was that your dog may have been started earlier due to being weaned early. That does NOT MEAN YOUR DOG IS COMPLETELY IMMUNIZED before at least 16 weeks.


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## littlemissy (May 19, 2009)

I don't mean this in a harsh fashion at all I am just completely puzzled by your frequent posts-- just yesterday you couldn't afford better dog food than Purina (probably contributing to the butt scooting you were discussing several times) and now you have the money in your budget for the groomer? You dismissed all previous advice given about immunizations, food, what is proper age to go to groomer, etc etc etc. Please brush Tobey with whatever brush you choose- everyone's best advice has been given to you on every issue you have brought to this forum which has been many. Everyone has been more than helpful to you in the nicest way they know how.


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## roxybaby22 (Feb 25, 2009)

QUOTE (littlemissy @ Jul 9 2009, 03:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803190


> I don't mean this in a harsh fashion at all I am just completely puzzled by your frequent posts-- just yesterday you couldn't afford better dog food than Purina (probably contributing to the butt scooting you were discussing several times) and now you have the money in your budget for the groomer? You dismissed all previous advice given about immunizations, food, what is proper age to go to groomer, etc etc etc. Please brush Tobey with whatever brush you choose- everyone's best advice has been given to you on every issue you have brought to this forum which has been many. Everyone has been more than helpful to you in the nicest way they know how.[/B]


 :goodpost: Maybe if you take out trips to the groomer, you would be able to afford better foods. 

From what I've read from actual Maltese owners and even some breeders, a pin brush and a comb works best on their hair and a slicker brush should be limited to legs and feet. Groomers do not maintain a Maltese coat daily, unless they own one, so I trust the breeders and Maltese owners more.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Three and a 1/2 weeks is very early to be weaned -did she happen to say why your baby was weaned so early? 

And I personally would listen to the advice of people who deal with these coats on an almost full time basis - not someone deals with it once or twice a month. Just because he/she is a groomer doesn't make them an expert on maltese coats.


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## ablack (Jun 9, 2009)

QUOTE (littlemissy @ Jul 9 2009, 03:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803190


> I don't mean this in a harsh fashion at all I am just completely puzzled by your frequent posts-- just yesterday you couldn't afford better dog food than Purina (probably contributing to the butt scooting you were discussing several times) and now you have the money in your budget for the groomer? You dismissed all previous advice given about immunizations, food, what is proper age to go to groomer, etc etc etc. Please brush Tobey with whatever brush you choose- everyone's best advice has been given to you on every issue you have brought to this forum which has been many. Everyone has been more than helpful to you in the nicest way they know how.[/B]



For your information, she only charged five dollars. She has a maltese and takes care of maltese constantly. I have asked for advice, but I'm not going to go by JUST what owners like me say, I seek advice from others too. We aren't neccessarily professionals. We are just owners who want the best for our Maltese. Another thing, I have received advice from SM members and accepted it on *many* occasions. So, please don't be rude. I am planning on changing the food, but I can't take the food back without a receipt to walmart where I bought it from. I accepted that advice and tried it. The food is the only thing I haven't done anything about yet. I accepted the weaning and the vaccinations and I talked to several experts who all tell me the same thing, that due to his circumstances, being weaned too early, etc, he is fine.

QUOTE


> And I personally would listen to the advice of people who deal with these coats on an almost full time basis - not someone deals with it once or twice a month. Just because he/she is a groomer doesn't make them an expert on maltese coats[/B]


It doesn't make you or anyone else an expert either. As I said, she has a maltese and deals with them on a weekly basis. 
QUOTE


> Three and a 1/2 weeks is very early to be weaned -did she happen to say why your baby was weaned so early?[/B]


Because she didn't know what she was doing. Again, I didn't realize the issues involved in taking him home too early, I do now, but he's home. (By the way, the groomer agreed that twelve weeks is the norm, but again, I didn't know)

QUOTE


> Maybe if you take out trips to the groomer, you would be able to afford better foods. smile.gif
> 
> From what I've read from actual Maltese owners and even some breeders, a pin brush and a comb works best on their hair and a slicker brush should be limited to legs and feet. Groomers do not maintain a Maltese coat daily, unless they own one, so I trust the breeders and Maltese owners more.[/B]


You don't have to be sarcastic. She only charged five dollars and I took him there for his nalis because I kept getting bleeding scratches. Again, she is a Maltese owner, and she deals with coats on a weekly basis.


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## roxybaby22 (Feb 25, 2009)

I didn't realize I came off as sarcastic! I'm so sorry, I really wasn't trying to be! I was just trying to be helpful, please don't jump at me.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

There are some of us here who have been in maltese in one way or another for over 20 years. If you prefer your "experts" advice
then why ask us?


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## ablack (Jun 9, 2009)

QUOTE (JMM @ Jul 9 2009, 03:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803187


> You have to be using the proper pin brush with proper brushing technique. Slicker will break the ends of the coat - period. If you keep in a puppy cut, a soft slicker is fine. If you want any length, you need to get a good pin brush (Madan is my preference). Brush through the entire coat to the skin and follow through with a greyhound comb to ensure you did not miss anything.
> 
> Matted coats such as you describe come from the person only brushing the outter layer, not down to the skin OR not brushing regularly at all. Any brush they use if you do it that way you end with a matted dog.
> 
> ...


excuuuse me. Sorry, I misunderstood. You don't have to get angry with me, geesh. Besides, I sought advice from other vets as well.


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## ablack (Jun 9, 2009)

QUOTE


> There are some of us here who have been in maltese in one way or another for over 20 years. If you prefer your "experts" advice
> then why ask us?[/B]



fine, I won't ask for any advice from you guys ever again. 

I tend to get defensive when I'm being criticized. I didn't say I prefer an experts advice, but when I get the same answer from more than two "Experts", I tend to want to accept it. 

Another thing, I have dealt with computers most of my life, like the internet and such, but it doesn't make me any more of an expert than a trained professional.


But don't worry, I won't seek advice from you guys anymore.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (ablack @ Jul 9 2009, 05:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803285


> QUOTE





> There are some of us here who have been in maltese in one way or another for over 20 years. If you prefer your "experts" advice
> then why ask us?[/B]



fine, I won't ask for any advice from you guys ever again. 

I tend to get defensive when I'm being criticized. I didn't say I prefer an experts advice, but when I get the same answer from more than two "Experts", I tend to want to accept it. 

Another thing, I have dealt with computers most of my life, like the internet and such, but it doesn't make me any more of an expert than a trained professional.


But don't worry, I won't seek advice from you guys anymore.
[/B][/QUOTE]


That was a question, Amy, not a demand. 
I don't quite catch the similarity between computers and maltese but if you want to view it that way, then it's your right.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (ablack @ Jul 9 2009, 03:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803285


> QUOTE





> There are some of us here who have been in maltese in one way or another for over 20 years. If you prefer your "experts" advice
> then why ask us?[/B]



fine, I won't ask for any advice from you guys ever again. 

I tend to get defensive when I'm being criticized. I didn't say I prefer an experts advice, but when I get the same answer from more than two "Experts", I tend to want to accept it. 

Another thing, I have dealt with computers most of my life, like the internet and such, but it doesn't make me any more of an expert than a trained professional.


But don't worry, I won't seek advice from you guys anymore.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I'm sorry you feel this way. 

Honestly, i'm not sure the point of this post unless it is to tell everyone on here that they are brushing their dog incorrectly based on one groomer's opinion. 

I don't make a brushing distinction between my show coats and my dogs who are cut down. And that includes minimal slicker brush use. My most useful grooming tool is not my slicker or my pin brush though, it's my greyhound comb.


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

I think there is more than meets the eye when it comes to keeping a malt in full coat. Your groomer dealing with coats on a weekly basis, does that mean she whacks them off weekly? I have keep my Sassy in a full show coat for 6 yrs now. I use a pin brush and never, never, never used a slicker brush. I use a (metal) greyhound comb to comb thru her coat as I brush out each section. I guarantee that anyone....groomer, or anyone else can brush thru Sassy's coat and will NOT find tangles or mats. Personally I do not put much weight on a groomers advice. They groom many breeds and tend to do the cuts that make grooming convenient for themself. 

I doubt that you will find people who keep their malt in a full show coat that uses a groomer. We do our own grooming. JMHO


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## ablack (Jun 9, 2009)

I was simply stating that just because you're into something for over 20 years doesn't make you an expert (You said some of you guys were into Maltese for over twenty years.)


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

QUOTE (ablack @ Jul 9 2009, 01:29 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803172


> But back to topic. The groomer said, and other groomers I talked to said the same thing, that using a pin brush just smooths the coat out. She showed me a couple of samples of maltese coats she had to cut out because the owners used pin brushes instead of slicker brushes. They were sooo matted and thick, it was awful. She kept the samples in a baggy because she wanted to prove how it could damage. She said that you should only use a pin brush when in the show ring, or to not depend on it. The slicker seperates the hairs and keeps it from matting. In fact, since I started using the pin brush, the groomer found a few mats that were beginning to form, and I brushed his hair every day.[/B]


The groomer's advice makes absolutely no sense. A pin brush does brush THROUGH the hair, seperates the hair and removes tangles. I have a boar hair bristle brush that is considered a finishing brush...this brush smooths and shines the coat. But a pin brush actually brushes through a coat very well. If someone isn't brushing thoroughly or missing areas then of course their dog will get tangles and matts. You have to make sure you pick up legs and brush on all sides, under armpits, etc. Slicker brushes are NOT to be used on long single coated breeds..period. Your groomer is giving you wrong and bad advice....but if you don't mind having a malt with a broken off coat and scratched skin, then go for it. Most groomers are not in any way experts...and just because she owns a maltese doesn't make her an expert. There are plenty of pet owners that don't know the proper grooming products and brushes to use on the breeds they own..obviously as this thread confirms that. If you ask any maltese show breeder, who I'd truly consider an expert on maintaining a malt coat, they will tell you to use a pin brush.


QUOTE (JMM @ Jul 9 2009, 02:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803187


> In general, I do not trust the average groomer's advice on how to maintain a unique coat like the Maltese coat. I can pretty much guarantee you they've never maintained one in coat.[/B]


EXACTLY


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## ablack (Jun 9, 2009)

Some of us don't have the right technique to do our own grooming.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (Sassy's mommy @ Jul 9 2009, 04:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803291


> I think there is more than meets the eye when it comes to keeping a malt in full coat. Your groomer dealing with coats on a weekly basis, does that mean she whacks them off weekly? I have keep my Sassy in a full show coat for 6 yrs now. I use a pin brush and never, never, never used a slicker brush. I use a (metal) greyhound comb to comb thru her coat as I brush out each section. I guarantee that anyone....groomer, or anyone else can brush thru Sassy's coat and will NOT find tangles or mats. Personally I do not put much weight on a groomers advice. They groom many breeds and tend to do the cuts that make grooming convenient for themself.
> 
> I doubt that you will find people who keep their malt in a full show coat that uses a groomer. We do our own grooming. JMHO[/B]


Actually, that is a very true statement. I have been to a groomer once and that was when my first pet maltese was 6 mos old (and before i found this forum) There is no way I'd trust a groomer not to shave the muzzle and eyes. 

I have a friend who kept taking his maltese that he wanted to show to a groomer. I told him over and over and over to not do that. Guess what happened? They did what was convinient for them and shaved the muzzle and between the eyes, as well as shaving the butt completely. I believe he was very sorry he didnt' listen to me. He was set back months before his dog was ring ready


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

QUOTE (Sassy's mommy @ Jul 9 2009, 06:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803291


> I doubt that you will find people who keep their malt in a full show coat that uses a groomer. We do our own grooming. JMHO[/B]


I think most dogs taken to groomers are kept in short cuts. I never saw too many toy breeds in full coat when I worked at a dog boutique/grooming salon. Most groomers are not familiar with true AKC breed standard and proper grooming...AND they tend to not do what the petowner asks a lot of the time. So I too do my own grooming and one of my yorkies is in full coat. The other one would be if her hair would grow but that's genetics..


QUOTE (ablack @ Jul 9 2009, 06:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803295


> I was simply stating that just because you're into something for over 20 years doesn't make you an expert (You said some of you guys were into Maltese for over twenty years.)[/B]


No not necessarily. I've seen plenty of pet owners that have had dogs for years and years and don't truly know about the breeds they own. However, most of the members here are very educated pet owners and maltese owners. Most of the members here have dogs from show breeders. These two statements combined pretty much ensure that the members here are pretty experienced and know how to properly care for their maltese, including proper grooming.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (ablack @ Jul 9 2009, 06:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803295


> I was simply stating that just because you're into something for over 20 years doesn't make you an expert (You said some of you guys were into Maltese for over twenty years.)[/B]


If you have bred, shown/competed and grown Maltese coats as well as raised Maltese you do tend to have collected quite a bit of knowledge
which could possibly be of value to a newbie. JMHO.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (ablack @ Jul 9 2009, 04:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803299


> Some of us don't have the right technique to do our own grooming.[/B]


Believe me, i didn't either, LOL. But I learned. Definitely not saying to not use a groomer but at least this way if I screw up, i have nobody to blame but myself. 

Also, there are two different types of pin brushes out there. Ones with the balls on the end and ones without balls. If you use them both on your own hair, you'll see a huge difference. I bet if you took a Madan or CC pin brush to your groomer, they might have a different thing to say. Maybe they have been using the wrong brushes.


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## ablack (Jun 9, 2009)

First off, I asked the groomer to cut his hair short. And everyone seems to group all groomers together.


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

QUOTE (ablack @ Jul 9 2009, 07:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803299


> Some of us don't have the right technique to do our own grooming.[/B]


Technique can be acquired as one learns about his/her own malt's coat and what works for that particular coat. More than technique, I believe that good coat genes, and good products play a greater role in a great coat. If you want to keep your doggie in a puppy coat then a groomer can be your friend, but if you want to grow a coat, you might want to learn to do it yourself. JMHO


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## ablack (Jun 9, 2009)

I want him in a short cut. I don't plan to show him in a ring.


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

QUOTE (ablack @ Jul 9 2009, 07:20 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803309


> I want him in a short cut. I don't plan to show him in a ring.[/B]


I don't show Sassy either, but I have loved keeping her in full show coat, only because she has a great coat. We may decide one day to go with a shorter cut. 



Good luck with your new groomer!


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## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

QUOTE (ablack @ Jul 9 2009, 06:17 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803307


> First off, I asked the groomer to cut his hair short. And everyone seems to group all groomers together.[/B]


I thought you said you just took him in for a nail trim. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else. LOL! My Internet connection is so slow that it makes me not go back and look. Sorry.


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

QUOTE (ablack @ Jul 9 2009, 04:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803299


> Some of us don't have the right technique to do our own grooming.[/B]


I didn't have any technique when I got my first Maltese, but learned from listening to the great advice I received here at SM and from my breeder. Mine are both in long coat and are pets only (not shown).....the only thing I have my groomer do is trim their nails. I think I have saved hundreds of dollars by doing my own grooming. And by keeping them in coat, it prevents me from doing a chop job on them.


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## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

I think there are several things to consider here.

1. Every malt's hair is different, what might work best for one might be incredibly painful or terrible for another. So, you will almost always need to consider what everyone says, look at the hair on their dogs and compare it to Tobeys (this is not only for brushes, but shampoos, conditioners, detanglers, etc)

2. The information given here by members are just suggestions. They are not mandates and the members hereare not the ultimate authority over what you choose to do in your own home; though I have found many to be incredibly knowledgeable. That being said, its ok to question the advice given but if you choose not to accept it; it might be best just to keep that to yourself.


With that being said. I use a pin brush on Hunter and he is kept in a short cut because his hair is so soft like cotton that anything too long mats on the car ride home from the groomers. Also, his love for the outdoors (sand, grass, leaves, snow, etc) means that the outdoors often ends up in his hair and the shorter cut is easier to clean and keep clean. I use a pink brush with little balls on the end despite this not being the best type of pin brush for a malts hair according to many because it's what I initially bought and he isn't bothered by it. That being said, if I had known better I might have bought one without balls. When it's time for a new brush, that's what I will do.

As far as cutting Tobey on your own. I haven't done it myself either but since groomers are starting to charge quite a bit (IMHO) for their services and to keep a short cut you have to go every 6 weeks, I am thinking about teaching myself. The way I look at it, if I mess up, its hair - it grows back. I will also be saving so much money that I can afford better things for myself and Hunter. Another reason I have been thinking about this is the amount of times the groomer has done what I have told them not to do; despite my giving them a sheet with instructions written on it. Its very upsetting when you encounter the same problem time and time again. So, while I am not currently caring for my own dogs grooming needs I am considering it.


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## janettandamber (Jan 19, 2009)

QUOTE (Sassy's mommy @ Jul 9 2009, 07:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803291


> I think there is more than meets the eye when it comes to keeping a malt in full coat. Your groomer dealing with coats on a weekly basis, does that mean she whacks them off weekly? I have keep my Sassy in a full show coat for 6 yrs now. I use a pin brush and never, never, never used a slicker brush. I use a (metal) greyhound comb to comb thru her coat as I brush out each section. I guarantee that anyone....groomer, or anyone else can brush thru Sassy's coat and will NOT find tangles or mats. Personally I do not put much weight on a groomers advice. They groom many breeds and tend to do the cuts that make grooming convenient for themself.
> 
> I doubt that you will find people who keep their malt in a full show coat that uses a groomer. We do our own grooming. JMHO[/B]


I agree with Sassy's mom


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## ablack (Jun 9, 2009)

QUOTE (Coco @ Jul 9 2009, 08:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803337


> QUOTE (ablack @ Jul 9 2009, 06:17 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=803307





> First off, I asked the groomer to cut his hair short. And everyone seems to group all groomers together.[/B]


I thought you said you just took him in for a nail trim. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else. LOL! My Internet connection is so slow that it makes me not go back and look. Sorry.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Oh sorry. I was talking about when I had him cut a week or two ago. I need to explain myself further. sorry.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

I have owned 6 Maltese and have fostered nearly 30 more over the course of the past 18 years. I have one I kept in show coat, another I kept in long coat. The others I have kept in puppy cuts. I have learned from many more experienced Maltese handlers and groomers as I competed for my boy's championship. I give you my credentials because it seemed you were not sure whose opinions you should give more credence to. I don't intend to sound arrogant, but I think my experience in the breed trumps the vast majority of typical all-breed groomers, as does the experience of many of the people who have already replied to this thread. In the first 16 years I owned Maltese I had the same vet (until we moved away) but I changed groomers many times. I think it is really hard to find a good Maltese groomer. I would never trust my show dogs with a groomer unless I knew that groomer VERY well and knew where they lived, just in case. olice: 

The fact is that a slicker brush is not the right tool for maintaining a Maltese coat. This is a fact = You will lose hair. I know you do not plan to keep much hair (as you are taking a very young pup in to be trimmed, and most people do not need to take babies in for grooming for some months), but even the little hair you have will have a broken and ragged appearence if regularly brushed with a slicker. You may choose to use a slicker to get out matts, it will break coat then as well, but you have already broken coat as soon as a matt appears. To preserve as much hair as possible, I prefer to use a grooming spray, my fingers or the rat tail of my comb, or my wooden bristle brush. 

A pin brush is the right tool. No balls on the end, straight pins. This opinion is pretty universal here and among OTHER Maltese experts. Do with it what you will.


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