# breeder threads



## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

just a note, i will be posting a better set of guidelines and rules for the breeders section very soon, I am VERY tired of baseless accusations, hearsay postings, members signing up with multiple accounts to cover their identity and those that CONTINUALY impart their expert opinions into threads without complete first hand knowledge about the breeders they choose to talk about, there is a difference between , and a time and a place for, discussing breeding practices and discussing first hand knowledge and experience with the breeder, alot of it is ridiculous and childish and I just wont put up with it anymore, there will also be posting rules and repurcusions for those that choose to sign up only to bash a breeder without providing proof and may even require contact information, the rash of postings tied to the same IP addresses will be delt with by suspension or banning

NOONE here knows ALL about breeding, NOONE here knows ALL about each breeder discussed, NOONE here knows ALL about the breeders they praise and recommend and the way breeder discussions are handled in the future will change

Joe


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## lillady (Jan 25, 2007)

Great idea Joe :smilie_daumenpos:


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## yorkieville (May 9, 2005)

:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: 

Excellent Idea, Joe!

Sheila


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

Thank you Joe.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Sounds good to me. Let's focus on shutting down the mills, and their websites. :thumbsup: 

When speaking of other breeders, an opinion is always good, personal experience is
good. We do need to keep it under control, though. I've noticed most of it is started
with the multi-personality newbies. 

In any case. My favorite breeders in the world are Steve and Peg of 
Backyard Rescue Breeders.  

Thanks for everything Joe. You're quite awesome B)


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you Joe for saying what you did in your post. 

There are so many varied opinions that are offered, some very good, some rather biased. Every one has his/her opinions about the variety of subjects that are discussed on this Forum. Although I have been a dog owner for over 30 years, I have come to learn so much from this Forum in such a short time. One thing for sure and for the most part, I have not come across a more caring group of people than on this wonderful Forum. The support that is offered is absolutely awesome!!

I am sort of confused by what a multi personality newbie is though???

Snuggle's & Chrissy's Mom


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## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

I think this is a good idea as well, but also have thought it was good for people to be able to come here and ask "Anybody ever heard of kennel XXX? Any feedback?" Because you can't tell everything from the list on the AMA. So I hope that those harmless comments and feedback are not banned. Also, though, have noticed how the bashing has taken place and I think that is over the top. 

Perhaps you can tell, Joe, who is legit and who is a poser. From where I sit I can only recognize those I know who show, win and breed and those I have never heard of. Obviously, just because I've never heard of them means little to nothing since I am not in the show or breeding circle. I am just for the betterment of the breed. (And rescue of those unfortunate little ones that are out there that need to be rescued!)

Thanks for all you do, Joe! This forum provides invaluable information for all of us! It's a great community!

Cyndi


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> I am sort of confused by what a multi personality newbie is though???[/B]



Every now, and again, we get a poster who, in order to get some back-up,
signs up under 2 or more user names. 

Let's say I'm 3Maltmom. I sign up under Harry. Then Harry starts posting how
great 3Maltmom is, and how 3Maltmom walks on water.

Then 3Maltmom posts, "Thank you Harry, you are wise beyond words".

Yet, it's the same poster patting herself on the back, or backing up the bashing
her other personality started.

It's actually kind of funny/weird at the same time.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Had I known that was what was going on I would have never posted.
I apologize for any rudeness I may have been part of. I was only
trying to help and it went a little astray with off topic schtuff.
I only have one name LOL!


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> Had I known that was what was going on I would have never posted.
> I apologize for any rudeness I may have been part of. I was only
> trying to help and it went a little astray with off topic schtuff.
> I only have one name LOL![/B]



Ya, right, Geraldine :HistericalSmiley: 

You didn't say anything rude. You were just stating your opinion, and very
nicely, I might add. 

It was the one with the multi-personality disorder who was rude.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Ya, right, Geraldine :HistericalSmiley: 



OK, Hermione :HistericalSmiley:


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I don't even have the time to handle 1 account.

I will share a funny story. There is one forum that both my boyfriend and I post on. On occasion, we would share a computer and accidently post using each other's accounts. It does look pretty silly.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> Ya, right, Geraldine :HistericalSmiley:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, Hermione :HistericalSmiley:[/B]



:smrofl: :smrofl: :smrofl: That was very clever.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Bravo Boss! Do it. :thumbsup:


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## emmie0527 (May 4, 2007)

Thank you! :smilie_daumenpos:


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## suzimalteselover (Mar 27, 2006)

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I really hope Joe bans whomever posted under several user names. I was not aware this was going on. That's not a fair way to communicate and ridiculous if you ask me. Why would you want to post to yourself? :blink:


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

thank u joe...im glad there is a group of us who can help u out when ur not around...sorry i havnt been a whole lot of help but im sure i will be one day


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## lovemaltese (Apr 8, 2008)

> You didn't say anything rude. You were just stating your opinion, and very
> nicely, I might add.
> 
> It was the one with the multi-personality disorder who was rude.[/B]


If you're referring to me (and I think you probably are) I will tell you this name is the one and only I have ever used on SM and I have not posted under any other name. I was cured from my schizo long ago. Seriously though, I would imagine the owner of the site should be able to tell by my IP that I have not. I do, however, believe this goes on and probably has been done on this site like Joe said, patting one's own self on the back to build up their own reputation as I know for a fact has been done on other message boards.


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## bigsmom (Sep 8, 2007)

thank you joe :aktion033:


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

One other thing to keep in mind is, many times posters have their buddies
sign up. Different IP's, same result.

It's often obvious.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> One other thing to keep in mind is, many times posters have their buddies
> sign up. Different IP's, same result.
> 
> It's often obvious.[/B]


I agree, it is fairly obvious.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

:huh: Personally, I think it's a shame that someone who we all know would do something like pretending to be someone else  (Well I hope I don't know them anyway) or have someone join and start trouble like that. It's sad for people who legitimately want info on a specific breeder!
People need to grow up and just say the truth and stop hiding who they are.

Very Sad!


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

.....wait a minute, I meant 2maltmom..... :HistericalSmiley: 

sorry (just had to do that :blush: )


Opinions should be used to provide useful information, not to hurt anyone.


One thing about breeder posts on here...I sure wish we had a pinned thread showing the breeders and pictures of the "look" of their pups. I think that would be so helpful to those who have admired pups on our forum and are ready to purchase a new baby.



> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=561035
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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

> .....wait a minute, I meant 2maltmom..... :HistericalSmiley:
> 
> sorry (just had to do that :blush: )
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Pat that is an awesome idea. I hope that they consider it. It will be beneficial to the board I am sure!! :smilie_daumenpos:


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

I am so tired of mean nasty people with nothing better to do than hurt others.
It is so sad when someone comes on here and uses our site as a vendetta.
These people must have a sickness and be so demented inside that they have to lash out at nice folks who are just minding their own business.
We have trouble enough in our world today without "YOU" hiding behind a fake name and causing a to-do for this wonderful, established family at SM.
Get on with your sad life and leave ours alone......please!

Marsha


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## thefab5 (Feb 1, 2007)

I say kudos to Joe! :chili: 

I am sorry Joe, you have to deal with all this but please know I am appreciative to have Spoiled Maltese.

thanks again for all you do.


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## jazak (Feb 12, 2008)

Great idea!! So sad that some people thrive on controversy. I too hope that the offender(s) are banned.


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## hogiesmom (May 27, 2005)

I am so glad Joe stepped in and put a kabash on th Mad poster.
Way too many fingers being pointed and too much hear say.
When you have evil intensions it is easy to twist things around
and make Apple Pie sound like Rotten Apples.....

Joe and the Moderators...Many thanks for stepping up to the plate
to resolve this issue. SM is a wonderful Board and I do not
want the same thing to happen to it as did the AOL Maltese Board..


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## gigigirlz (Jun 18, 2007)

> Joe and the Moderators...Many thanks for stepping up to the plate
> to resolve this issue. SM is a wonderful Board and I do not
> want the same thing to happen to it as did the AOL Maltese Board..[/B]



I totally agree....thank you...The reason I joined SM and paid a membership fee was to get away from the mudslinging that was going on at the AOL Maltese Board....everytime I logged on there I felt like I had to put on my combat boots to read it...no fun, no fun at all...I really enjoy participating in this board and would hate to have it ruined by a few malicious, evil-hearted people....


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I feel like I must be missing out on something. I had no idea all of this was going on. Who has time to sit around and think this stuff up?????????


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

> I feel like I must be missing out on something. I had no idea all of this was going on. Who has time to sit around and think this stuff up?????????[/B]


I'm right there with you Susan...I guess I've missed the big drama. 

Joe, one thing you might consider about people who post under different names...if they have more than one computer (ie, use a different IP at work, school, or whatever) that will give them a different IP adress. I don't really know how you would stop that. 

Without having the benefit of knowing exactly what's going on here, I think it is valuable to have some sort of rating system for breeders. Maybe you could structure it so that comments are posted only after reviewed by one of the moderators? Maybe there should be a special log in for that section of the forum, requiring people to provide more personal data, or even pay a membership fee to post? Maybe these posts could be "read only" files once approved?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> I feel like I must be missing out on something. I had no idea all of this was going on. Who has time to sit around and think this stuff up?????????[/B]


Unfortunately, this is not a new problem here on SM. Read Joe's post and rules about muliple user names last year:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23153

There have been two breeder threads in the past few weeks taken down for this reason. I for one would like to see these rules enforced and a zero tolerance policy for this behavior. Malicious people with the sole intent of stirring up trouble should lose their privilege to post here IMO.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

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 :thumbsup: Right on Marj!!! I totally agree!! :biggrin:


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## njdrake (Apr 23, 2007)

I'm clueless about what happened  Maybe that's a good thing!

I agree that people doing this posting under different names should be band and the only reason you would do that is to cause trouble even if I don't have any idea what happened.
I love that when you post it goes on immediately and not several days later after being approved to be posted. I sure hope that doesn't change. I love this site and have gotten so much help here. I'm thankful I found SM!  
Thank you Joe and thanks to the moderators. While I'm at it thanks to everyone who has provided so much helpful information.


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## phoxxymaltese (Jan 6, 2007)

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I couldn't agree with you more! I am patiently awaiting the right time, evaluating breeders and learning as much as I possibly can for the sake of my future furkid. I gain a lot of knowledge from this forum and would hate to think someone is behaving in such a way at the expense of those of us that truly want the knowledge. It's so sad. I mean what does one accomplish by doing such a thing? I don't know where people find the time nor energy to do stuff like this.

At any rate, thanks to the honest and sincere posters who share meaningful and heartfelt information.


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## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

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It seems to me that the correct thing to do about breeders is to go to the AMA website and find a breeder there. If one of those approved AMA breeders doesn't have a dog for you, they will most certainly guide you to a breeder who does have one who may not be on the website. Sometimes it is good to wait on a dog from a recommended breeder. I know from experience that waiting is not a bad thing. Sometimes getting a dog, no matter how expensive, does not make it a healthy pup. I waited several months to get Coco from an approved AMA breeder. I made a couple of mistakes before getting Coco, so I definitely know about that. She has been well worth the wait.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

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I couldn't agree with you more! I am patiently awaiting the right time, evaluating breeders and learning as much as I possibly can for the sake of my future furkid. I gain a lot of knowledge from this forum and would hate to think someone is behaving in such a way at the expense of those of us that truly want the knowledge. It's so sad. I mean what does one accomplish by doing such a thing? I don't know where people find the time nor energy to do stuff like this.

At any rate, thanks to the honest and sincere posters who share meaningful and heartfelt information.
[/B][/QUOTE]


It seems to me that the correct thing to do about breeders is to go to the AMA website and find a breeder there. If one of those approved AMA breeders doesn't have a dog for you, they will most certainly guide you to a breeder who does have one who may not be on the website. Sometimes it is good to wait on a dog from a recommended breeder. I know from experience that waiting is not a bad thing. Sometimes getting a dog, no matter how expensive, does not make it a healthy pup. I waited several months to get Coco from an approved AMA breeder. I made a couple of mistakes before getting Coco, so I definitely know about that. She has been well worth the wait.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Awwwww, little Coco. I would wait years for her. :wub:


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## suzimalteselover (Mar 27, 2006)

> It seems to me that the correct thing to do about breeders is to go to the AMA website and find a breeder there. If one of those approved AMA breeders doesn't have a dog for you, they will most certainly guide you to a breeder who does have one who may not be on the website. Sometimes it is good to wait on a dog from a recommended breeder. I know from experience that waiting is not a bad thing. Sometimes getting a dog, no matter how expensive, does not make it a healthy pup. I waited several months to get Coco from an approved AMA breeder. I made a couple of mistakes before getting Coco, so I definitely know about that. She has been well worth the wait.[/B]


Very well said, MaryAnn. :aktion033:


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

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I agree with you, Mary Ann. AMA is a great starting point, but it's just
as important to do our homework, ask the right questions, run if you have
any doubt and get input, if you can, from others. Checking out several
breeders is always a good idea, even if you wind up going back to the
first one.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

*Disclaimer: * I'm not knocking AMA! Just pointing out especially to newbies that going to that list is not a magic bullet. I agree that list is a good starting point. People who just google Maltese Puppies, or some such, end up with websites of brokers and mills so often.

I wish that when a breeder paid a fee and qualified to join an organization like AMA it meant that their dogs would be perfect, they would then stand behind them no matter what, and the dogs would never develop a health or behavior problem,---but it just is not true. The members are just that, members of an organization, and the dogs are still living breathing creatures that like all others can still developer problems. The people who join are still humans with all the same failings. Does it help to get familiar with the members and their dogs? Of course, but there are some very good owners and breeders and people who show beautiful Maltese who either do not choose to belong to AMA or are too new to the business to have been evaluated by it's committee, or for many other reasons are not members.

Try to get to know a breeder. It takes time to know how their dogs are raised and handled, what their philosophy about training, feeding and vaccinations are. They are forming that little bundle of white and what it will be from the moment of birth. Don't think of it in terms of "are they a _top-tier_ show breeder", because that does not say how they raise puppies. 

Enjoy the learning experience and the time you spend on making your first decision. You will not have learned it _all_ by the time you fall in love with a puppy, but hopefully you will know a lot about where that little guy came from and how he has been handled. Pedigrees are a whole different subject. Don't make the mistake of relying on them for a pet. To a great degree let the breeders worry about what DNA is bringing to their dogs. You should be able to trust what your breeder is doing in that department--unless of course you are looking for a show prospect.  

If you purchase more than 1 puppy in your lifetime you will learn a lot each time. Never think you have 'got it now', just keep researching and learning and listening and remember what you learn. Your "taste" in "styles" sizes and sex of dogs will change over the years too, so what is true today may not be in 5 years.

Happy hunting! :thumbsup:


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

> It seems to me that the correct thing to do about breeders is to go to the AMA website and find a breeder there. If one of those approved AMA breeders doesn't have a dog for you, they will most certainly guide you to a breeder who does have one who may not be on the website. Sometimes it is good to wait on a dog from a recommended breeder. I know from experience that waiting is not a bad thing. Sometimes getting a dog, no matter how expensive, does not make it a healthy pup. I waited several months to get Coco from an approved AMA breeder. I made a couple of mistakes before getting Coco, so I definitely know about that. She has been well worth the wait.[/B]


I strongly agree with those who have said that the AMA breeder list is a great starting point in one's search for a puppy. And I also agree with those who have pointed out that there are many good/reputable/worthy breeders who are not AMA members. And not all good/reputable/worthy breeders have websites, whether AMA members or not. I would like to clarify the above statement -- AMA members listed on the breeder list are not "approved breeders". There is no approval process. When applying for AMA membership, applicants agree to abide by the AMA Code of Ethics. The AMA is not a policing organization but does expect all of its members to abide by its Code of Ethics. AMA says the following on their breeder list page:

The American Maltese Association does not license or endorse anyone engaged in the commerce of selling pure-bred dogs and, therefore, has no control over the business practices of those involved in such transactions. However, all AMA members have indicated their intentions of upholding the AMA Code of Ethics . We certainly would welcome hearing from those that have either had a positive or a negative experience with the purchase of a Maltese puppy for our reference only. Thank you!

The Spoiled Maltese forum has a myriad of good information and advice about searching for breeders and selecting puppies. Take the time to do some research before running out to buy.

Mary H


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

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Very good post Mary. Thank you.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I think we all need to be realistic about what to expect from a breeder. I honestly believe that NO breeder out there has never had a health problem unless they are relatively new to breeding or just oblivious to what happens. There is no perfect Maltese out there but only perfect Maltese in our eyes.

I believe that a good breeder is one who is there for you - good and bad. One that is willing to work with you through any challenges you may face. There are no breeders with a perfect track record. Some owners are impossible to satisfy while some breeders just do a poor job. Just need to find a good balance.

I find that breeder threads are useful but they aren't necessarily the absolute story. People who had bad experiences may be afraid to post if everyone else has been happy. Others have a personal vendetta and just go a smear campaign. However, there are some helpful advice that can provided based on facts such as if the breeder has been convicted in the past. I think we all welcome FIRST HAND stories - ex. you purchased a Maltese that you were told was vet checked and healthy. You take the pup to a vet and find out they have a grade 3 heart murmur. Something bad obviously happened there.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't have much experience with breeders except recently when I got Nikki a couple of weeks ago. The breeder I used isn't on the AMA list and isn't one of the more well-known breeders, but the site was linked to a well-known AMA breeder's site so I looked into it thoroughly. Nikki's breeder was totally honest and up front with me about her entire breeding/showing career before I agreed to take Nikki. She charged a fair price, she keeps in contact with me, and she has been very helpful. 

So I guess it is very possible to work with a smaller, lesser known breeder not on the AMA list if you do your homework. Life isn't perfect and things happen, even in champion lines. Whether we get our precious furbabies from a rescue, a humane society or a top breeder, there really are no guarantees that they will have good health all their lives. I know a person who adopted a stray that had been eating from garbage cans, and that dog lived to be 22 and never had a health problem. Genetics play a part, but there are a lot of things that contribute to a dog's health. And some things are simply out of our hands. If people feel strongly either way about a breeder I guess that they could always PM the person who has questions and thus keep it private.


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## gizzy's mom (Jun 3, 2008)

> Thank you Joe.[/B]


Oh wow Becky it is a small world ! Yours is another site i gah gahed over the babies you have. ! Do you have any available pups ? Or a litter coming soon ? :biggrin:


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

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Reminder that sales of animals isn't allowed here. You should contact Becky through her web site regarding available pups, etc.
Thanks!


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

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Thanks Sher. I was going to say the same thing. :thumbsup:


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## gizzy's mom (Jun 3, 2008)

Oh Gosh Im so sorry I didnt know


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

> Oh Gosh Im so sorry I didnt know  [/B]


Oh sweetie don't be sorry. We figured that you did not know. And the only way to keep if off the board is by telling you. Best wishes in your search.


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