# Dog Food research



## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

In conclusion……There doesn’t seem to be any objectivity in ranking the foods. Like I said before, I think these charts are formed by different people giving their opinions and the guidelines used by each may not be the same. It all falls back to the reason we humans are at the top of the food chain. We have brains to make cognitive decisions and we should not rely solely on charts that are composed by various resources, especially since it is never known who has the proper expertise or a vested interest in the outcome.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I absolutely agree with everything you said. I have overdosed on dog food research. When Nikki is 9 months old, her veterinarian, who is a nutritional consultant, will create 3 rotating home-cooked recipes for Nikki. It costs money to get these custom-designed recipes, but I am sick and tired of researching and trying to keep up on news/issues about commercial dog food. I will NOT feed raw unless I personally know the source of the meats, like a local farm/ranch, and the meat would have to be grassfed because that's all I eat myself, and I've done the research on what commercially raised cattle, chickens, etc. are fed. It's not pretty. Maybe 100+ pound humans can tolerate those toxins, but a 4.5 pound Maltese? 

If you are interested in research forums on commercial food, and alternative methods of feeding your dog besides commercial food/raw food, here are some links:

Commercial Pet Food Research:
http://www.thepetfoodlist.com/forums/
http://www.itchmoforums.com/

Some of the members of the above forums have taken commercial dog food and paid a lot of money to have it tested themselves.

Forums on Home Cooking and Dog Nutrition:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Totally_Home_Cooking/

If enough pet owners would simply not support these huge companies - who are making millions and have us convinced that we are too stupid and too lazy to feed our dogs nutritionally adequate food, then maybe some of them would go out of business forever, and I say "good riddance." I'd rather take a couple of hours a week preparing and freezing home cooked than give them my money so they can poison more dogs and cats. 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I have strong opinions about our food supply, both human and canine! :smpullhair:


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## wooflife (Aug 8, 2007)

I'm wondering how Orijen fairs in those reviews... most folks have been very happy with it, although i have heard some dogs don't like the taste.

My vet, who I disagree with, only recommends big company dog food producers like eukaneuba and science diet or as he put it "any company that has done food trials". He says I'm wasting my money buying Orijen because dogs can't absorb that much protien and it passes through. So cheap fillers are OKAY!?!?

Not only that but he disregards all of the improvements that owners have seen in dogs due to changes from these foods that been through food trials. It's ridiculoous!

Leslie


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

I agree - so confusing! I recently spent a Sunday afternoon reading dog food labels and this was even MORE confusing. I finally gave up and decided go with what Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine at Tufts recommends for picking a dog food. They said go straight for the *statement of nutritional adequacy* on the food label.

The nutritional adequacy statement should read something like this:

*Animal feeding testing* (to see if puppies/dogs THRIVED on the food) *using AAFCO procedures *substantiate that "________" food is *complete and balanced* for "_________" stage.


I had been feeding Karli Natural Balance, but I'm switching her over to Fromm. The Natural Balance label says the food has been formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO. This is perfectly legal, but it says nothing about being complete and balanced nor does it mention it has been tested.


Also, something else which surprised me during my label reading is that Innova has garlic listed as an ingredient. Garlic is on the toxin lists for dogs.





Joy


Edited to add: There's more information about diets for puppies in the book "Puppy's First Steps" by the Faculty of the Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine at Tufts University.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I think that there's differing opinions on the use of garlic. It is in the same family as onions. Onions can cause a certain type of anemia in dogs. Garlic is reported safe in small quantities.


IMO if we really want to get in-depth information on nutrition and food, then consulting with nutritionist is probably the best way to go, since that is their specialty. 

The problem with any type of processed food is that even if it is nutritionally balanced, during the canning or drying process, there are humans who add in the vitamins/minerals to the food. If someone makes a mistake then our dogs might get too little or too much. There are always risks to buying processed food, even the best brands out there. And even if those wonderful brands are nutritionally balanced and complete, where do they get their vitamins from? 99% of vitamins and commercial vitamin mixes sold today for both humans and animals are synthetic, and come from China. I only know of one dog food that does not use synthetic vitamins, Nature's Logic. I know of only a few human vitamins that are not synthetic, but even some of them use "starter" ingredients from China. And according to Consumer Lab, even if you buy the best supplements, some of the ones they've tested only contain HALF of what you are paying for. That is why it is so important to get our nutrients from the food itself. No dog food company can claim its food is nutritionally complete WITHOUT the addition of synthetic vitamins/minerals to their food except for Nature's Logic.

Have I tried Nature's Logic? No. They don't sell it locally and I'm done experimenting with commercial dog food.


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## wooflife (Aug 8, 2007)

ok now I'm really confused....


doesn't this statement ---

*Animal feeding testing* (to see if puppies/dogs THRIVED on the food) *using AAFCO procedures *substantiate that "________" food is *complete and balanced* for "_________" stage.


exist on purina dog food as well most other foods you can find in the grocery store? This is the statement my vet was refferring too.

Help

Leslie


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

> I think that there's differing opinions on the use of garlic. It is in the same family as onions. Onions can cause a certain type of anemia in dogs. Garlic is reported safe in small quantities.
> 
> 
> IMO if we really want to get in-depth information on nutrition and food, then consulting with nutritionist is probably the best way to go, since that is their specialty.
> ...





Because of the uncertainties about garlic, I prefer that it NOT be in my dog's food. Here's what the folks at ASPCA's Poison Control Center say about garlic:


ASPCA on Garlic


There's pros and cons on all sides of the dog food issue. Years ago I would've never dreamed that dog food would be such an emotional issue.


Joy


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

[/QUOTE]
Because of the uncertainties about garlic, I prefer that it NOT be in my dog's food. Here's what the folks at ASPCA's Poison Control Center say about garlic:


ASPCA on Garlic


There's pros and cons on all sides of the dog food issue. Years ago I would've never dreamed that dog food would be such an emotional issue.


Joy
[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean about emotional. Not only that, it is very time consuming. I have health issues so I am forced to research everything I eat. It is very hard to trust the entire food supply, including human food, unless you buy local from people you know. When Nikki is a little older, instead of spending hours researching dog food, I think I will spend time in the kitchen, cooking food that I bought myself. </span>


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

In my many hours or food research through the years that Sassy has been a part of my life I have learned many things. It is true that what may be nutritional for humans and sound yummy to our palate may not be so nutritional or yummy for fluffs. Their digestive track is more of a straight shot so the food does not stay in the system long. Many foods that we as humans think are healthy never have a chance to digest. Therefore, if the foods are not digested the nutrients are not absorbed into the fluff's system. So we are not really doing them justice, they are not benefiting from the foods. I believe that the dog food companies do a much better job in creating a balanced food for our fluffs than we can create ourselves. The problem is......the comparison charts are not comprised by the same researchers on all of the companies so the same guidelines are not followed. There is no way to compare apples with apples. This is the discourageing part. My issue is with the preservatives being used. As far as I can tell there may not be guidelines to say what is safe. I know that many will say the Halo Spot Stew isn't good because it only receives 4 stars. But as far as I can tell it doesn't seem bad. After all, the reviews are done by consumers. So that doesn't hold any merit with me, I want scientific proof. The ingredients are all grown in the USA except for the peas, which are grown in Canada. The products are manufactured in Tampa, FL not some packing plant in bofunk nowhere, and they only use natural oil for a preservative. It doesn't seem that bad to me. But I am still researching, I haven't decided what we are changing to yet.


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## cloey70 (Jan 6, 2008)

Boy, never knew there was so much to say about dog food, but I am learning now. Now I wonder, is Canidae a good diet for our fluffs? I am not a hollistic person, nor all organic, and want to know is this more what this thread is about? Is about Organic and Hollistic food? Confused, confused..........sorry, I guess I am just an idiot. :smilie_tischkante:


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I think the OP was referring to the sites where we do our research and how they can be flawed.

There are different ways to look at what you'd like to have in a dog food. There is the quality of the food itself, and then there are the added supplements which make the food nutritionally complete so that it can be "certified." But they allow companies to call their foods "all natural" when most of these foods contain hefty doses of synthetic vitamins, so who can you really trust? 

I pesonally would like to know that the food I am feeding my dog, besides being nutritionally complete, is from (preferably grassfed but not crucial) animals raised in the US, Canada or New Zealand, does not contain genetically modified plant/grain ingredients, is certified organic, and contains no artificial preservatives. Then I would want to know if the (always synthetic, always from China) vitamin/mineral supplements that they add to the food have been independently tested and proven to contain the amounts of vitamins/minerals that they claim. However regarding testing the food and regarding scientific proof, I have no faith in that at all. The food industy is a powerful presence/lobby, and any test or "scientific research" can be slanted to favor whomever they want, sometimes depending on who is paying for that test and that research. And that takes a long time to discover because these things are always buried under layers and layers.

As far as I can tell from my research, there is *no* canned dog food on the market today that meets ALL those criteria I stated. (I am still waiting for an answer from Party Animal Dog Food.) Some foods come very close, and I appreciate that. I guess my standards are pretty "anal" but oh well, that's just me. I want the impossible. We can't even get all those things in our own human foods unless we buy local from trusted sources, but there still are no guarantees in life.

If websites that review/test the food like a certain line, they may be biased. So what do we do? I guess we all do the best we can, and that is all we can do. 

If anyone knows of a food that has all those features I mentioned, please let me know. Then I won't have to pay the nutritionist for nutritionally balanced and complete home prepared recipes.


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

> Boy, never knew there was so much to say about dog food, but I am learning now. Now I wonder, is Canidae a good diet for our fluffs? I am not a hollistic person, nor all organic, and want to know is this more what this thread is about? Is about Organic and Hollistic food? Confused, confused..........sorry, I guess I am just an idiot. :smilie_tischkante:[/B]


No the thread is not about organic or holistic foods. I am not really into that complete line of thinking; although, I do like the thought of using animals that have not been injected with hormones and plants that are chemical free. As the person below said....it is about how can we educate ourselves and make wise decisions when the info available is so bias.



> I think the OP was referring to the sites where we do our research and how they can be flawed.
> 
> There are different ways to look at what you'd like to have in a dog food. There is the quality of the food itself, and then there are the added supplements which make the food nutritionally complete so that it can be "certified." But they allow companies to call their foods "all natural" when most of these foods contain hefty doses of synthetic vitamins, so who can you really trust?
> 
> ...


Another thing that I find interesting.....a lot of the companies label their foods "human grade". What I learned is that yes the meat started out being "human grade" but once it hits the processing plant it is no longer considered "human grade." Also, human grade can mean things that although they are suitable for human consumption most people do not consider them human foods. I guess if I was starving I might eat chicken feet, or organ meat.....but not if I can find anything else to eat. I am not even sure if broccoli is human food :HistericalSmiley: just kidding. Like you said, we all do the best we can.

I guess it is a good thing that our little fluffs do have systems that absorb things differently than humans. They can eat grosser things than humans and be just fine. I think a lot of it is that as humans we find the foods more disgusting than they really are, because many of them are actually nutritionally sound for animals. The problem with that is....................Maltese are not animals. :wub: 

Still looking for a new food for my fluffy angel.


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## Missy&Maggie (Jun 17, 2007)

I honestly spend more time researching and read ingredients for Maggie's food than I do my own!!! :brownbag:


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

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*Yes, dogs can eat things we couldn't tolerate, but most toxins are stored in the fat and the organs of animals, not the muscles. So if you feed your dog processed food full of synthetic Chinese vitamins, containing a lot of organ meats or "mystery meats," and fat from unlabled questionable sources, they will get more toxins. The label "Human Grade" is being phased out I think. 99% of dog food is nowhere near "human grade." Why in the world would any dog food company put good cuts of meat in their cans/kibble when they can get all the cast off meat much cheaper? They wouldn't. Processed food is processed food, whether it be for humans or dogs. Fresh food from local sources is much better for people and animals than canned or dry food. I totally understand that not everyone has access to fresh food all the time, and not everyone has the time to cook. I understand that. But no canned or dry food can compare in any way to fresh food that is free of genetically modifed vegetables/fruits, hormoness, pesticides, and antibiotics. We have to stop trusting in these pet food companies like they have all the answers and can feed our dogs better than we can. If the consumer gets educated about the food and demands quality, it might just happen someday. Added: And yes, I feed Nikki commercial food for now. So I'm temporarily right there with everyone else. *


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## wooflife (Aug 8, 2007)

Hi everyone - 

I found another food that looked pretty interesting - We have a Natural Dog Store here that sells this and wondered if anyone had heard of it. It has my interest.

www.canz.com


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

> Hi everyone -
> 
> I found another food that looked pretty interesting - We have a Natural Dog Store here that sells this and wondered if anyone had heard of it. It has my interest.
> 
> www.canz.com[/B]


I have not heard of it and after reading this on the bottom of the page you gave the link to I would stay away from it.


*"**Raw meat is highly perishable and may contain salmonella, ecoli and even parasites that could cause illness to you, your children that may come into contact with unwashed bowls etc and your pets. "

*It is basically are raw food, I want to feed Sassy a dry food.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

> Hi everyone -
> 
> I found another food that looked pretty interesting - We have a Natural Dog Store here that sells this and wondered if anyone had heard of it. It has my interest.
> 
> www.canz.com[/B]



The only ingredients appear to be high quality meat with a little bit of vitamins added, both of which you can get at a Whole Foods store. I don't understand how they can call their raw line "Raw" when it is pasteurized. It's no longer raw if it is pasteurized. You would still have to add some veggies to it, or even grains if you had to lower the protein. It would be the same as buying grass/pasture fed meat and cooking it yourself.


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

I prefer the analysis of commercial dog foods from the Whole Dog Journal rather than the dogfoodanalysis website. One issue covers dry food and another covers wet food (I think its Feb and March respectively). The AAFCO is a dog food industry watch dog - in other words, the fox guarding the hen house. I am convinced the labeling is intentionally deceptive and wish that dog food companies would have to switch to the same nutritags that human food has.

I went through a lot of angst with regards to dog food when my dogs bile acids tested high. I ended up cooking for them, adding human supplements once cooled and using some dry kibble on occassion. I am interested in Nature's Logic - has anyone tried it? For the time being I'm using Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato formula and the Natural Balance Organic formula to supplement my fish or chicken dishes....I also have used Halo Pets recipe for Spot's Stew and my dogs enjoy it. I definitely add more protein to my recipe so it ends up being 1/3 organic boneless, skinless chicken breasts. The one problem with the home-cooked meals is the dirty faces from wetter food, but I will live with that.

Suzan - what commercial food are you feeding Nikki for the time being? Is it because she is still a puppy?


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

> I prefer the analysis of commercial dog foods from the Whole Dog Journal rather than the dogfoodanalysis website. One issue covers dry food and another covers wet food (I think its Feb and March respectively). The AAFCO is a dog food industry watch dog - in other words, the fox guarding the hen house. I am convinced the labeling is intentionally deceptive and wish that dog food companies would have to switch to the same nutritags that human food has.
> 
> I went through a lot of angst with regards to dog food when my dogs bile acids tested high. I ended up cooking for them, adding human supplements once cooled and using some dry kibble on occassion. I am interested in Nature's Logic - has anyone tried it? For the time being I'm using Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato formula and the Natural Balance Organic formula to supplement my fish or chicken dishes....I also have used Halo Pets recipe for Spot's Stew and my dogs enjoy it. I definitely add more protein to my recipe so it ends up being 1/3 organic boneless, skinless chicken breasts. The one problem with the home-cooked meals is the dirty faces from wetter food, but I will live with that.
> 
> Suzan - what commercial food are you feeding Nikki for the time being? Is it because she is still a puppy?[/B]



I totally agree with you about AAFCO and Whole Dog Journal. I've been on other forums where some people have independently tested unopened cans/bags of food and some of them have been contaminated with acetaminophen and other things. That is because dog food companies use bags of synthetic vitamin mixes from China. The Chinese plants probably produce a lot of types of pharmaceuticals in one plant so who knows what goes into synthetic vitamins. I stopped taking them myself and only take New Chapter brand, which is 99% non-synthetic. 

So I'm not happy with commercial dog food at all. I am presently feeding Nikki Nature's Variety Prairie canned Lamb and Oatmeal, and I supplement her food with organic yogurt and tiny fresh organic veggies/fruit. The former owner of Nature's Variety left the company and started Nature's Logic. I thought about using them too because they don't use synthetic vitamins. I checked into them and they are owned by Tejas, which is a rendering plant. One of the investors in Tejas is Merrick. I am not too happy about Nature's Logic being owned by Tejas. And they use Menu Foods to can. Also, their food contains animal plasma, which is basically blood. But they don't tell the source of it. The good thing is that they don't get their meat/veggies from China, and they are GMO-free.

So at the advice of my holistic vet I am going to get 3 rotating recipes from her and start Nikki on home-cooked food at 9 months. We have 3 months to go. I have heard good things about Honest Kitchen, but unless you want to feed their dehydrated raw, you have to add meat. "Party Animal" canned food is completely certified organic. I e-mailed them about the country of origin of their food but they never answered me. They don't sell it here in Georgia anyway. I have access to a farm/ranch that sells grass fed beef and free range chickens so I can get the protein there or at Whole Foods. All lamb is grass-fed, so no worries there. Since I eat organic food myself, Nikki will get organic grains and veggies. Of course I will have to add supplements, but I will get the best quality and best-tested brands I can afford. This way I have more control over what goes into her food. There are no guarantees in life, but I don't trust dog food companies and I don't believe in eating processed food for myself, so why should I feed it to my dog?


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## kathym (Aug 5, 2006)

EVER SINCE THE RECALL,I HAVE BEEN HOME-COOKING FOR BACI ,MOSTLY BOILED CHICKEN,YAM OR BROWN RICE ,AND VEGGIES,.I DO ADD IN THE MERRICK DRY FOOD SO FAR SO GOOD. THE LAST THING I BOUGHT WAS THE MISSING-LINK SUPERFOOD SUPPLEMENT,I DID SPEAK TO MY VET BEFORE,
HE SAID IT WAS VERY GOOD HE GIVES IT TO HIS BOXERS.


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

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According to their website at the very bottom #7 about their pasteurization process, they only heat the food for 10 minutes. I guess it isn't fully cooked by then. It just doesn't sound like something I would want Sassy sticking her nose into since they caution about bacteria and parasites. Yuk!


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

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Any food heated above 110 degrees cannot be considered "raw" because above 110 degrees the enzymes in the food is destroyed, thus "cooking" the food. Pasteurization is usually done at 120-140 degrees. They should not be claiming it is raw. Dehydrated food is dried at around 110 or under so raw food that is dehyrdrated is still considered raw. Anyway, unless I know the source of he protein I wouldn't feed raw.


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

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According to their website at the very bottom #7 about their pasteurization process, they only heat the food for 10 minutes. I guess it isn't fully cooked by then. It just doesn't sound like something I would want Sassy sticking her nose into since they caution about bacteria and parasites. Yuk!
[/B][/QUOTE]



Any food heated above 110 degrees cannot be considered "raw" because above 110 degrees the enzymes in the food is destroyed, thus "cooking" the food. Pasteurization is usually done at 120-140 degrees. They should not be claiming it is raw. Dehydrated food is dried at around 110 or under so raw food that is dehyrdrated is still considered raw. Anyway, unless I know the source of he protein I wouldn't feed raw.
[/B][/QUOTE]

That all depends on the pasteurization process. Some companies use a high heat for a short period of time, while other companies use a lower heat for a longer period of time. Anyway, I would not use the product because of their warning statement. 

I guess I should have put in my first post on this thread that it is more of a rant than discussion. I know we all research foods and have gripes and complaints. I was just getting at the fact that it is hard to research when the info is so bias.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

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Any food heated above 110 degrees cannot be considered "raw" because above 110 degrees the enzymes in the food is destroyed, thus "cooking" the food. Pasteurization is usually done at 120-140 degrees. They should not be claiming it is raw. Dehydrated food is dried at around 110 or under so raw food that is dehyrdrated is still considered raw. Anyway, unless I know the source of he protein I wouldn't feed raw.
[/B][/QUOTE]

That all depends on the pasteurization process. Some companies use a high heat for a short period of time, while other companies use a lower heat for a longer period of time. Anyway, I would not use the product because of their warning statement. 

I guess I should have put in my first post on this thread that it is more of a rant than discussion. I know we all research foods and have gripes and complaints. I was just getting at the fact that it is hard to research when the info is so bias.
[/B][/QUOTE]


You are correct about research. It is very hard to do research because you do not know which info isn't biased. I hope I didn't go off on too many rabbit trails, hijack your original post, or rant too much. The whole food supply issue (both people and dog food) is a very frustrating one for me because due to my health issues, and my friend's cancer, I've had to do extensive research. I just cannot believe how much BS there is out there, both from the processed foods industry and the natural foods industry. No one should have to do all this research just to find out where your food comes from and what it REALLY contains. If you ever read the book, "The Omnivore's Dilemma," or watch the DVD, "The Future of Food," you'll get a tiny taste (pun intended) of what I am talking about. I envy those who are able to grow/raise their own organic, antibiotic-free, not genetically modified, "clean" food. 

I wish you well in your dog food research. I've pretty much given up on it. It's a nightmare. :new_shocked:


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## cloey70 (Jan 6, 2008)

:smstarz: thats how I feel


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## Kutsmail1 (Dec 26, 2007)

I agree. There is way too much controversy. Another problem that comes into play with these comparison charts is that by the time they are released, they are already obsolete. I have decided that I will go for the most current certified organic that I can find, and pray for the best. Right now, I still have Zippy on Royal Canin. She eats it well. I am happy with the way she is doing with it.

As a concerned owner tho about what is actually in it, I can't help but continue to research. I won't keep changing foods on her as I wholeheartedly believe that is the wrong thing to do for her digestive system. I think we each have to decide independently what we feel is right for our babies.

I have had a lot of concerns re: recalls as well as what is actually in the foods. There is nothing out there that will give any one person 100% peace of mind. 

Zippy is 1 yr old now, and I am still reading and researching. I don't know if this will help anyone, but this is a site I am currently reading. I am looking at 2 last dry foods, and then I have promised myself I am stopping! lol

http://crownhillpet.com/dept.asp?d_id=22294&l1=22294


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## Carla (Aug 30, 2005)

> :smstarz: thats how I feel[/B]


me too 

:smpullhair: This is mind boggling. I want to give Shotzi high quality food but how would I ever really know that the food is what it states it is? Holistic may not mean what the word implies, same with natural, organic, and raw. Then there's the rating system that is equally confusing, and now I learn the fox is watching the hen house. :smilie_tischkante: 

Carla & Shotzi


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

> I agree. There is way too much controversy. Another problem that comes into play with these comparison charts is that by the time they are released, they are already obsolete. I have decided that I will go for the most current certified organic that I can find, and pray for the best. Right now, I still have Zippy on Royal Canin. She eats it well. I am happy with the way she is doing with it.
> 
> As a concerned owner tho about what is actually in it, I can't help but continue to research. I won't keep changing foods on her as I wholeheartedly believe that is the wrong thing to do for her digestive system. I think we each have to decide independently what we feel is right for our babies.
> 
> ...


Barbara, I have a hard time finding food that Sassy will truly eat and not pick at so I have been like you.....the food Sassy eats isn't the top ranked, but she will eat it. As for the organic foods, I picked up samples last week. So far she won't even taste of the Prairie. She just sniffed it and walked away. I have some Instinct, so I will try that next. It is really difficult when you have a baby that likes what she likes and turns her nose up at the other stuff. 

Another problem is that the organic/grain free foods have a very high protein level. Our babies do not need that much protein.


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## wooflife (Aug 8, 2007)

I currently work for an extemely high end meat packing company and I'm considering feeding my kids home cooked using products from work. That way I know exactly where everything came from, our facility runs at higher standards than the USDA requires. The last dog the owner of my company had apparently never ate commercial dog food and lived for a healthy 17 years. 

Leslie


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## Kutsmail1 (Dec 26, 2007)

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Amen to that lol. The thing is too that for decades Purina was the big food of choice. I also think back to those old farm dogs. From what i can tell, the most the farm dogs died from were heartworms and diseases from no vaccines. For the most part tho, they were healthy dogs. 

I love Zippy and want the best for her, but like you, it drives me nuts for her not to eat. I like to see her happy to eat. She is such a busy girl...she needs her nourishment lol. She hardly has time to eat as it is! The samples are great if you are lucky enough to find them. I have requested samples from several places. They either don't come in, or Zippy acts like I have lost my mind.

When you told me about the Royal Canin, I was excited to find it locally. I was even more excited that Zippy would take the time to eat it! I am sticking with it if she doesn't eat the one coming in.


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## Kutsmail1 (Dec 26, 2007)

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Joy, thanks for this site. I shared it with my other furbaby buddies too. It's a keeper! Barbara


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## Kutsmail1 (Dec 26, 2007)

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:smrofl: Maltese are not animals. 
OMG....that is just it...these dogfood companies just don't understand that lol. Zippy is not a dog....she told me so! She is a buzzsaw and my sweet little angel at the same time.

Honestly, I'm not sure if anyone has researched it, but there are even diff grades for human foods. I never thought about this until I drove up to Taco bell one day...and they had some boxes with a line on it that indicated it was a lower grade, but passed the specifications for human consumption. <gag>


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

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Pet Guard organic lamb and rice is not high protein. It's only sold in health food stores.


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=580729
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just wanted to say Prairie and Instinct are not organic. I hope you find a food that Sassy loves.


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

Here is a link to Karma. Check out the protein percentage. May be something to try.  

http://www.karmaorganic.com/


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## Kutsmail1 (Dec 26, 2007)

> Here is a link to Karma. Check out the protein percentage. May be something to try.
> 
> http://www.karmaorganic.com/[/B]


I am waiting on this one to come in now. I narrowed it down to this and Nature's Variety Dry. I will say tho, I quit after this lol. It's enough to drive you nuts. Zippy is looking great on the Royal Canin, but as humans...we just keep looking. I will write 100 times: "I won't look anymore. I wont look anymore...."


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

> The thing is too that for decades Purina was the big food of choice.[/B]


My mothers dog lived a long healthy life of 14 yrs. He wasn't sick a single day of his life. He just recently passed away. All she fed him was Purina from the grocery store. And here we all are banging our heads against the wall, trying to do best by our babies. Go figure....lol.

I like my Wellness Low fat Grain Free. It isn't nearly as high in protein as the other grain free foods and my babies are doing amazing on it.


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## design by dawn (Jan 22, 2008)

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/animals.htm
just to throw this in-
they say dogs/cats don't get saminella (or how ever you spell it)


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## design by dawn (Jan 22, 2008)

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

> http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/animals.htm
> just to throw this in-
> they say dogs/cats don't get saminella (or how ever you spell it)[/B]


I've read that too. Its very uncommon, because their digestive tracks are so short, its not in there long enough to make them sick. 

That said, this is another reason you should NOT feed RAW and kibble together....it should be one or the other. Kibble takes longer to digest, and if you feed them RAW along with kibble than the RAW will sit longer and could potentially cause salmonella.


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