# A little worried about Tiffy



## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

I thought it was about time to allow this thread http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...=36658&st=0 to die and start a new one...

I'm a little worried about our girl.

We knew that she was on thyroid medication, but I am now concerned about her over all health. I really do hate to say this, but I think I now have some understanding of why the vet apparently made a comment about putting her down.

Here are other observations we have noted:

You can't see it very well from the picture I posted, but her hair is pretty thin.

She pants quite a lot even in the house, which I keep fairly cool. Tiffy spends a lot of time panting, even when everyone else is comfortable.

She poops and pees pretty frequently. I did not keep an exact count, but if she did not poop and pee 6 to 10 times yesterday, I'd be surprised. She slept through the first night without waking us to go potty, but last night, she got us up twice. (I guess we will restrict her intake in the evening, from now on)

She has walked very slowly since she has been here... Then last night I had to go pull a real dufass. I had her on the sofa with me and I left to do something else and she jumped down. Since then, she has favored her right rear leg... and walks even more slowly... She is continuing to favor that leg this morning.

She came with a folder full of vet records...

I started reading through them last night and I quickly came on one which spoke about her limping... so she has had this issue before. The vet records though are hard for me to read and I do not understand most of what is there, so I am not quite sure what to think.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

QUOTE (Max & Rocky @ Aug 1 2008, 12:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614368


> I thought it was about time to allow this thread http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...=36658&st=0 to die and start a new one...
> 
> I'm a little worried about our girl.
> 
> ...



Perhaps you can have a consultation with her vet, or drop her records at the vet that you use, and consult with them after they've reviewed her records and given her an exam? I hope it all works out. She seems so sweet, and you're an angels for taking her.


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## BrookeB676 (Oct 17, 2004)

It seems as if a lot of her symptoms would be a result of her thyroid acting up and it is likely that her medicines needs to be adjusted. I'm not sure when her last vet consult was, but as with humans, the thyroid should be monitored quite frequently and the medicines subsequently adjusted based on the bloodwork. A deficiency of thyroid hormone affects the metabolic function of all organ systems and therefore the hair thinning/loss and panting would have to do with her thyroid. Thyroid problems cause your body's temperature to be off, so you are either really cold, or really hot. I cannot say whether or not the bathroom issues have to do with her thyroid, but it seems logical that this would be a possibility since your thyroid affects your metabolic function. After reading a few articles, it seems that thyroid problems in dogs is very similar to with humans (same blood levels that are monitored: TSH, T3 and T4). My husband was on thyroid medicine and these "symptoms" so to speak are identical. Hopefully you can get her to a vvet and see what her TSH is. Also, as with human dr's, not all vets are as familiar to well versed with the adrenal functions. It may be time to see a vet who is more familiar with treating thyroid problems. It took my husband 3 doctors before his thyroid was finally working properly with the right combo. of meds. Good luck with that sweet baby! I feel confident based on what you are saying that she will feel a lot better when she is on the right combo. of meds. for her thyroid.


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

I should add that they did take her in for a quick vet check the day they turned her over to us. I am not sure though what the vet did and if she had a blood test or not.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

When was the last time her thyroid was checked? It should be checked every six months. Lady had many of those symptoms, thinning hair, panting, etc. before she went on thyroid medication.

Another thing that comes to mind is Cushings. Thinning hair, excess peeing are all classic signs.

As far as the limping, well, she's eleven, right? Lady is full of arthritis, too, but Cosequin has worked wonders.

I suspect she's just an old gal that just needs lots of TLC and vet attention. I know how time consuming and costly that can be. She will need a very special person to take her in. It's such a shame that her former owners couldn't care for this girl in her golden years. That's the way it is supposed to work.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Take all of her records to your vet. She will need a complete "senior" physical.

I would not deal with her original vet, as he is the one who suggested euthanizing her, over a bite.
Your vet can always consult with the other vet, if needed.

Did they leave the records for her last vet visit? She definately needs that thyroid checked.

Arthri-Sooth did wonders for my Daisy's old joints. Henry and Lulu are also taking this. Sure does
make a difference.

Also, my Daisy would wake me up at least three times a night to pee. She was old, and just couldn't
"hold" it like she use to. 

As Marj stated, Tiffy is getting on in her years. She needs special attention, and vet care.

Gentle hugs to our sweet little Tiffy.


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

I've ordered Arthri-Sooth Deb. Thanks.

I'm going to talk to Mary this weekend about Tiff. The vet she prefers that I use which is cheaper, is not as good, in my opinion (and I have very clear reasons for saying that), but the other two vets we have used are rather pricey.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

QUOTE (Max & Rocky @ Aug 1 2008, 01:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614417


> I've ordered Arthri-Sooth Deb. Thanks.
> 
> I'm going to talk to Mary this weekend about Tiff. The vet she prefers that I use which is cheaper, is not as good, in my opinion (and I have very clear reasons for saying that), but the other two vets we have used are rather pricey.[/B]


Steve, maybe NCMR can start a fund for Tiffy and get some donations so you an take her to a top notch vet. I bet a lot of us would want to help.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Aug 1 2008, 02:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614421


> QUOTE (Max & Rocky @ Aug 1 2008, 01:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614417





> I've ordered Arthri-Sooth Deb. Thanks.
> 
> I'm going to talk to Mary this weekend about Tiff. The vet she prefers that I use which is cheaper, is not as good, in my opinion (and I have very clear reasons for saying that), but the other two vets we have used are rather pricey.[/B]


Steve, maybe NCMR can start a fund for Tiffy and get some donations so you an take her to a top notch vet. I bet a lot of us would want to help.
[/B][/QUOTE]


That is a fabulous idea!!!!!

Tiffy reminds me so much of my Lady. Older gals need excellent vet care, the right meds and supplements, and a good diet. Money should not be an obstacle in getting this golden girl in tip top shape. She definitely needs a geriatric blood profile and a thyroid panel to start with.

No wonder she nipped the baby. She probably hurts and doesn't feel well.

Gosh, I wish I were in a position to adopt her. I just love the seniors! :wub: :wub: :wub:


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Aug 1 2008, 01:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614421


> QUOTE (Max & Rocky @ Aug 1 2008, 01:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614417





> I've ordered Arthri-Sooth Deb. Thanks.
> 
> I'm going to talk to Mary this weekend about Tiff. The vet she prefers that I use which is cheaper, is not as good, in my opinion (and I have very clear reasons for saying that), but the other two vets we have used are rather pricey.[/B]


Steve, maybe NCMR can start a fund for Tiffy and get some donations so you an take her to a top notch vet. I bet a lot of us would want to help.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Sher ~ I was just about to post the same thing. I know times are tough, and NMR is strapped for money.
We do, however, need to get the best care for little Tiffy. She's a senior, with a few issues. This is not something
to hold back on. 

I say go to a vet you trust, and are comfortable with. We can make up the difference.


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Aug 1 2008, 11:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614432


> QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Aug 1 2008, 01:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614421





> QUOTE (Max & Rocky @ Aug 1 2008, 01:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614417





> I've ordered Arthri-Sooth Deb. Thanks.
> 
> I'm going to talk to Mary this weekend about Tiff. The vet she prefers that I use which is cheaper, is not as good, in my opinion (and I have very clear reasons for saying that), but the other two vets we have used are rather pricey.[/B]


Steve, maybe NCMR can start a fund for Tiffy and get some donations so you an take her to a top notch vet. I bet a lot of us would want to help.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Sher ~ I was just about to post the same thing. I know times are tough, and NMR is strapped for money.
We do, however, need to get the best care for little Tiffy. She's a senior, with a few issues. This is not something
to hold back on. 

I say go to a vet you trust, and are comfortable with. We can make up the difference.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I appreciate the thought and I certainly will not do anything to talk anyone out of donating money, but there are so many rescue needs and I hate to always be the guy here asking for money. The fact is, I can afford to make a donation on her behalf myself. As screwy as this may sound, I was not so much concerned with the $$ as I was just having difficulty figuring out if the higher priced vet might be warranted, especially considering she appears to have had very good vet care.

:shocked: Boy... talk about a hopeless cause. Me trying to describe what I was thinking and my thought process when I wrote something...

I'm very left brained and these sort of gray areas are hard for me to make decisions on. If I can lay it all out in an Excel spreadsheet, then I can decide. Otherwise, it is tough for me... :wacko1: 

I should also say that the owner wrote a $200 check to rescue... for our taking Tiffy. I can not say that I've ever gotten a check along with a dog when doing rescue.


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## snowballsmom (Mar 3, 2006)

I should also say that the owner wrote a $200 check to rescue... for our taking Tiffy. I can not say that I've ever gotten a check along with a dog when doing rescue.
[/QUOTE]

I don't know why, but this just impressed me. He could have just dumped her off without a thought to her care.

Bev
Snowball & Charlie


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## llf060787 (Nov 19, 2007)

I wonder if Tiff's medical needs may have been an underlying reason that may have contributed to her being surrendered. Poor old gal, not only isn't she well but she's also in an unfamiliar place with unfamiliar people. Its unfortunate that her owners couldn't have kept her.


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

QUOTE (snowballsmom @ Aug 1 2008, 12:54 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614469


> I don't know why, but this just impressed me. He could have just dumped her off without a thought to her care.
> 
> Bev
> Snowball & Charlie[/B]


Yep, I thought the same Bev.

I could not help but feel a little critical of the situation... why couldn't they figure out some way of managing this, etc. But this was about a 35 year old guy and he kept getting chocked up about the situation, then if you saw all the pet supplies he turned over to us, plus the donation...

Well, all I can say is he (they) did a heck of a lot more than most people do in a similar situation.... so I've come around to giving them a pass, especially since I really have no idea what they tried.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I don't know what the prices are by you, but the last geriatric and thryoid panel Lady had done was several hundred dollars. You have people ready, willing and able to donate to help with her vet bills, so why not let us?


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

I have to agree with the others.. I think a thyroid plus a full blood panel testing would be a first step to see what underlying issue might be going on. Thyroid med needing adjusting was the first thing to come to mind as well... seems to be 'classic symptoms of things being 'off". also thought as what was mentioned of possible cushings... as similar symptoms but usually a bit of a pot-belly shows up with that but not always. Thought possibly diabetes with all the drinking and peeing and panting....as well but thyroid is most likely. 
I know when we got Quincy... I felt he panted 'too-much'... ( though think a part is due to his 'nature') but added that he is a year younger than Naddie yet pooped out so quickly during play...he'd tire quickly then go to a cool spot on the tiles and panted and acted overheated... ( thought in truth Naddie was doing more of the 'action' and she wasn't tired or overheated at all.... then the panting even when settled in for bed was unsettling to me.
I wanted ( as did vet) a full panel before we did his dental and I also requested the vet do a thyroid on him. She sort of laughed ( she knows my obcessive/compulsive-ness woth my pooches! LOL ) and she did say. she really didn't think it was necessary,... then smiled at me and said "but you want me to do it anyway don't you ? .... I said "yeah I do! LOL 
She called me when the panel came back and said his panel was "interesting"! his T4 the Free T4 and some othrs were fine BUT his T3 was off. he's Not actually hypothyroid at this time so ni meds necessary but at high risk to develop it .
There's also a med called "Doggone pain" that many on our diabetes board use for joint problems/ arthritis etc and have found most have found it to be very helpful. 
You can get a free sample at their website:
http://www.doggonepain.com/shopping/sample.asp


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

QUOTE (IamMomtoMissy @ Aug 1 2008, 02:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614524


> I have to agree with the others.. I think a thyroid plus a full blood panel testing would be a first step to see what underlying issue might be going on. Thyroid med needing adjusting was the first thing to come to mind as well... seems to be 'classic symptoms of things being 'off". also thought as what was mentioned of possible cushings... as similar symptoms but usually a bit of a pot-belly shows up with that but not always. ...[/B]


Thanks Terry and everyone else.

She does have a little pot belly, so when I get her in, I will be sure to mention and have them check.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I'd be glad to donate.


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## rosietoby (Mar 27, 2008)

A lot of the symptoms sound like Cushings to me too. Rosie was diagnosed with it 6 months ago.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

QUOTE (RosieToby @ Aug 1 2008, 07:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614558


> A lot of the symptoms sound like Cushings to me too. Rosie was diagnosed with it 6 months ago.[/B]



Yes, the panting, the water drinking, the thin hair, and the pot belly are all the same symptoms of Cushing's that my Bichon had.


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

I've been reading about Cushing's and there are several other symptoms that I had not even mentioned, so needless to say, I've made the vet appointment for Monday at 4:30 to get her checked out.


As far as the offers of help, you guys are the best and I'd probably even feel guilty if I ever had to ban some of you here.... :smtease: (I'm king of the inappropriate joke, in case you have not noticed).

Seriously though, I thank each and everyone one of you for your offers of help. I think a general donation to NCMR is always appreciated... If you want to put a note there that the donation is for Tiffiny, that would be great. I've no clue what this might mean from an expense standpoint right now, so I would just as soon hold off on some big organized fund raiser until such time as I know it is needed.

Thanks again!
Steve


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Yep, let's get her in, and get to the bottom of this. We'll deal with this precious soul. 

I love her :wub: 

My Daisy was tested for cushings, when she first came on board. Tests were negative.
She had the biggest/fullest belly I've ever seen. She also had several other signs, including
excess drinking.

So we'll get Tiffy tested, and get to the bottom of this. Bless her little heart.

Oh, and Steve, I'll donate a substantial amount, *IF* you NEVER ban me ~ LOL

If you *DO* ban me, I'll donate even more ~ LMAO ~ Lovies to Tiffy


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## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

What is the URL of the NCMR? Can we donate through their website via PayPal? I frequently want to help with these little dogs and their medical costs, but I don't really know where/how to do that, especially so that it might go toward a specific dog and medical bills.

Please post URL's and ways to accomplish this.

Thanks!

Cyndi


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

QUOTE (BinnieBee @ Aug 1 2008, 06:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614641


> What is the URL of the NCMR? Can we donate through their website via PayPal? I frequently want to help with these little dogs and their medical costs, but I don't really know where/how to do that, especially so that it might go toward a specific dog and medical bills.
> 
> Please post URL's and ways to accomplish this.
> 
> ...



Cyndi,

Here is the address for a donation: http://malteserescue.homestead.com/DonationForm.html


Thanks!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

QUOTE (Max & Rocky @ Aug 1 2008, 09:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614645


> QUOTE (BinnieBee @ Aug 1 2008, 06:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614641





> What is the URL of the NCMR? Can we donate through their website via PayPal? I frequently want to help with these little dogs and their medical costs, but I don't really know where/how to do that, especially so that it might go toward a specific dog and medical bills.
> 
> Please post URL's and ways to accomplish this.
> 
> ...



Cyndi,

Here is the address for a donation: http://malteserescue.homestead.com/DonationForm.html


Thanks!
[/B][/QUOTE]

I just now made a donation and on the PayPal form there isn't a place to put any message at all. Soooo, here's what I did and what you all might want to do...... Since NCMR doesn't really need my address I clicked the "add address" link and added another "address" and rather than my address, I typed in my message in the Address 1 and Address 2 lines. You will need to put in a city, state and zip that all match, though.


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## Nissa Fiona (Nov 4, 2007)

I lost my precious scottie, Lilly, last Oct. to Cushings and so many of these things you describe sound like what we went through. I hope it's not and that everything turns out well.


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

QUOTE (Nissa Fiona @ Aug 1 2008, 07:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=614667


> I lost my precious scottie, Lilly, last Oct. to Cushings and so many of these things you describe sound like what we went through. I hope it's not and that everything turns out well.[/B]



Thanks Kim.


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

Well, Tiffany has had her blood test and then this morning I had to take in a urine sample 

(don't even ask me how one gets a female dog to pee in a cup... :w00t: )

She has quiet a few blood test results which are out of spec... Crap, when I was starting this, it was my intent to put the test result sin the message, but I guess I left the info in the car). Anyway... the results are somewhat ambiguous with respect to Cushings, thus the urine test...

So please stand by for results...


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Steve, Here's a pretty good link for understanding blood panel results... tells what some "offs ( high/lows) might indicate...

http://home.gci.net/~divs/disease/lab_tests.html


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I know Cushings can be difficult to diagnose. Keep us posted.


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

QUOTE (IamMomtoMissy @ Aug 8 2008, 01:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=617282


> Steve, Here's a pretty good link for understanding blood panel results... tells what some "offs ( high/lows) might indicate...
> 
> http://home.gci.net/~divs/disease/lab_tests.html[/B]



Thanks Terry. But I think it will take a few years worth of vet med school for me to understand this stuff... :w00t: 

Some of the test results seem to say kidneys... some say liver.... Anyway, here are all the tests which out out of spec. (I got tired putting the actual numbers in the post)

test results normal
Alk Phosphatese 257 10-150
CK 1022 10-200
Amylase 1449 450-1240
Bun 62 7-27
Cholesterol 340 112-328
Glucose
Calcium
B/C Ratio
Monocytes
Auto platelet

She is doing ok though... She is resting comfortably at my feet now. She sleeps though most nights fine. She eats like a pig (and needs to loose weight) and pees like a horse and is snoring right now worse than Peg...  (Did I really say that?)

She walks rather stiffly and it is very clear she is up there in years...


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Sweet little girl - you rock for taking such loving care of her, Steve!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

This one is pretty easy to understand:

http://www.bichonfriseusa.com/caninebloodwork.htm


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Steve, I haven't gone back to refresh my memory on this but has her thyroid been checked?


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

QUOTE (Max & Rocky @ Aug 8 2008, 07:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=617325


> and is snoring right now worse than Peg...  (Did I really say that)[/B]



:HistericalSmiley: That cracked me up ~ LOL

My Daisy snored the paint off the walls ~ :smrofl: 

Let us know as soon as you get the results back. 

God Bless Little Tiffy. She has already won my heart. :wub:


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Aug 8 2008, 06:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=617396


> Steve, I haven't gone back to refresh my memory on this but has her thyroid been checked?[/B]


She is already on thyroid medication Sher, so yes, at some point, it has been checked. I honestly do not know what constitutes a thyroid check... I suspect that it is specific things in a blood test...


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

QUOTE (Max & Rocky @ Aug 8 2008, 10:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=617400


> QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Aug 8 2008, 06:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=617396





> Steve, I haven't gone back to refresh my memory on this but has her thyroid been checked?[/B]


She is already on thyroid medication Sher, so yes, at some point, it has been checked. I honestly do not know what constitutes a thyroid check... I suspect that it is specific things in a blood test...
[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, the Thyroid test is a blood test. Maybe her medicine needs to be adjusted because the thinning hair is a symptom. I also saw in the report that her cholesterol is on the high side... another symptom. And I believe you said she is overweight, which is also a symptom. And not being very energetic is one, too. My first Malt, Rosebud (RIP) had hypothyroidism so when I see some of the symptoms, I just wonder ....


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Steve,
Thyroid testing is not part of the general blood panel...it is specific testing. i9f it was done you'd see a specific area on the report.... T-3,T-4, Free T-3 Free T-4 etc. It is also not unusual for meds for Thyroid to need adjusting.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I agree. You have to specifically ask for a thyroid panel.

Hypothyroidism is pretty common in Maltese. Lady was diagnosed with it a few years ago. She has to have her thyroid checked every six months.

I hope that is the cause of Tiffy's issues. It's such a simple and inexpensive fix. I just picked up Lady's thyroid pills yesterday and they were $11 for a four month supply.


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

Well, the doc called me a couple of hours ago and Tiffany does not have Cushings... The bad news is that she does have some issues that have the doc a little worried including protein in her urine... indicating something is going on with the kidneys....


So, we are doign more tests.


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

I've been more than a little tardy as far as updating Tiffy's status... Besides Peg and I both working, I'm doing some remodeling work and another little project or two and it seems I just have no more time left...  

As I said, she has protein in her urine and her blood creatinine level is pretty high, in addition to her hypothyroidism which she is on medication for. I guess this indicates mild to moderate kidney problems with her, which had been previously undiagnosed. However, on the good side... and on a practical level, she is doing pretty well and I've seen her actually run out to her potty area (when 'ya gotta go, you gotta go). Of course, to balance this and let me know who is really in charge... she will take he own sweet time plus some coming back. Oh yes, we do have her on glucosamine chondrotin (sp?) now.

I've got to run over to the vets this morning to get a prescription for her kidney situation and some special low protein food. This girl likes to eat and if she is not getting enough, she has her methods of letting me know she expects more, so this is going to be an interesting test of wills.

On yes... one more thing. We were told at the start that she had serious separation anxiety, but with the other dogs here, she does fine (and is probably better than our Max)!


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