# Question about why it is so difficult to buy a puppy



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Hi - I am new to this forum - just signed up yesterday - my Mother BelleParish joined approx. 6 weeks ago to help me find a Maltese puppy to purchase after I got VERY frustrated in my search. She found this forum and THANKS to several members here she gave me the name of a breeder that came highly recommended. I wanted a puppy so badly and NEVER in my wildest dreams would I have thought it so difficult to do so. To make a long story short I wanted a Maltese that looked like the ones in shows - the pretty silky coat etc.... I was told I would have to go to a show breeder and pay 2000.00 - 3000.00 and I would be getting a showdog quality since they breed their champion showdogs to try and produce more champion showdogs. It made sense to me so I contacted a few breeders - some are "well known" and I see where one of them is a member here. The frustration was I could never get a straight answer on the pedigree and who the Sire and Dam was - I would get the name of one of the parents but never both and never given the pedigree info when I asked. I would get one pedigree but for some reason I would never get both or both names of the parents. I was told by all that the puppies are from champion lines and reasurred their puppies were healthy - they were more interested in assuring me the puppies were healthy - which is important but the red flag for me was why they would not give all the info. I can say that ALL but one of them were "evasive" in answering the questions - even the person I was going to eventually get a puppy from. Dian Lynch of Midis Maltese was the only one to tell me the names of the Sire and Dam and show me pictures and she was asking the least for her puppy than the others who would not share that info. I would have bought the puppy from her but she was so busy with shows etc... she never got back to me - I sent a few emails and she never answered. As for the others I contacted All I wanted was a few straight answers - I wanted to know who the parents of the litter and pictures of them and the pedigree - I never got the answers so I moved on and finally became over the top frustrated when one seller told me she hates it when people call her - pick her brain and then buy elsewhere. All I could think of was "how does one know what they are getting if no-one is willing to answer the questions" The last seller I contacted before giving up and then my Mother getting involved is a member here and she might see this but it is the truth and I'm not bad mouthing her only trying to understand WHY she was evasive to the questions on the pedigrees and sire and dam - when she told me over and over - she has been doing this a long time - she has champions in the show ring - she knows everybody - she said over and over how beautiful and healthy her puppies are - she wanted 3500.00 for hers and simply said that's what I get for my puppies - I never advertise - I have a waiting list. When I told her that was more than I was wanting to pay she then offered to sell me her one year old show dog - she said she was too small to breed so she was going to sell her and then went on and one about how much she loved her and how wonderful she was and how much she will miss her etc... etc...SO... here's my question - how can a breeder who has raised and loved and shown the dog - sell the dog - I just don't know how they can do that - it's the one question that has been bothering me the most -I know there are several show breeders here and perhaps you can help me to understand it. I hope I have not tread on sensitive ground here - I am new to this forum and maybe this has been addressed before but I just don't understand it. With all this said life works in mysterious ways - I believe I wasn't meant to find the Maltese Showdog of my dreams - well - maybe someday - for now I am a new Mommy to my Mom's Maltese mix (or so she thinks - I don't think so) little Miss Bellarina "Bella".


----------



## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Hi!

I am so sorry you are frustrated, truly I am. I don't have the answers for you. But .....I have been doing some research recently...for maybe adding another in the future...not right away...but anyway...I fell upon this wonderful breeder, who test her pups...and I believe both her male and female are Ch sire and Ch dam...and very good pricing.

Cathy, to me, is a dream for a breeder. Very open, honest straightforward...I think you will LOVE her. Here is her site
Cathy is from Chaca Maltese. Not sure if these babies are still available...but I know you would be very very happy speaking with her and she is very responsive and her babies are adorable. 

http://www.chacamaltese.org/AvailableMaltese.html

Hugs to you.


----------



## PuttiePie (Nov 22, 2006)

Chaca maltese is Dian Lynches sister. If you don't want problems, go to a good well known breeder, not a small time one. If you want a SHOWDOG MALTESE, then be prepared to pay 10,000 dollars or more. If you want a PET maltese within standard, go to a decent GOOD well known breeder. I think your expectations of a "Maltese Showdog" are way offbase. If you are telling breeders that you want a SHOWDOG for pet price, I have a feeling they will not want to deal with you. Try telling the breeder you want a Maltese within standard, that might help you...


----------



## revakb2 (Sep 8, 2006)

I understand your frustration. A lot of the breeders can be very difficult to deal with. I speak from personal experience. I think the best way to find a breeder and puppy you like is to attend all of the dog shows that you can. There is a thread about talking to a breeder at a show. It would probably be good to read that thread if you haven't already. As far as selling or giving away dogs that you have raised and loved, I'm sure it hard for breeders to do. Unfortunately, breeders can only keep so many dogs at a time. Most of the breeders I know raise the dogs inside their home so space and time spent on each dog is limited. They have to make hard choices. They need to decide what dogs will better their breeding program, and which dogs will have a better life as someone's pampered pet. Good breeders always do what is in the best interest of the dog. Sometimes that is to rehome the dog. Btw, I am not a breeder nor do I ever intend to be. You need to keep searching until you find a breeder that answers all of your questions, and you feel comfortable with, but you do have to have patience. In the long run, it will be worth it.


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

QUOTE (PuttiePie @ Apr 22 2009, 11:37 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766179


> Chaca maltese is Dian Lynches sister. If you don't want problems, go to a good well known breeder, not a small time one. If you want a SHOWDOG MALTESE, then be prepared to pay 10,000 dollars or more. If you want a PET maltese within standard, go to a decent GOOD well known breeder. I think your expectations of a "Maltese Showdog" are way offbase. If you are telling breeders that you want a SHOWDOG for pet price, I have a feeling they will not want to deal with you. Try telling the breeder you want a Maltese within standard, that might help you...[/B]


Hi - Thanks for your reply - I could have written much more but wanted to condense it and perhaps it came off wrong - I know a showdog costs alot of money and I couldn't buy one anyway since I don't show BUT - if a breeder is breeding their champion showdogs to possibly get another showdog - then why wouldn't the puppies be of that quality - I know not all puppies born to champion showdogs are made for the ring and that's one of the reasons they sell them - I would think a top breeder selling puppies from there lines of champion showdogs would produce that qulaity - that's all AND I never asked to buy a showdog or actually asked if the dog was one - ALL I asked was - who was the Sire and the Dam and the pedigree and NEVER got a straight answer. 
I


----------



## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

Correct me if I am wrong but did you not post before saying that you could not pursue a new furbaby because of your mother becoming ill so you now care for her furbaby? ( http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...44552&st=45 post 55) If I am right, I hope all is well with your mom. Maybe that is why they are not responding to you at this moment because technically you are no longer able to take one of their babies home right now. I do not know, but I do know that you have to be VERY specific as to what you are looking for and sometimes be very persistent because I know the show breeders do get very very busy.


----------



## PuttiePie (Nov 22, 2006)

QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 22 2009, 11:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766182


> QUOTE (PuttiePie @ Apr 22 2009, 11:37 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766179





> Chaca maltese is Dian Lynches sister. If you don't want problems, go to a good well known breeder, not a small time one. If you want a SHOWDOG MALTESE, then be prepared to pay 10,000 dollars or more. If you want a PET maltese within standard, go to a decent GOOD well known breeder. I think your expectations of a "Maltese Showdog" are way offbase. If you are telling breeders that you want a SHOWDOG for pet price, I have a feeling they will not want to deal with you. Try telling the breeder you want a Maltese within standard, that might help you...[/B]


Hi - Thanks for your reply - I could have written much more but wanted to condense it and perhaps it came off wrong - I know a showdog costs alot of money and I couldn't buy one anyway since I don't show BUT - if a breeder is breeding their champion showdogs to possibly get another showdog - then why wouldn't the puppies be of that quality - I know not all puppies born to champion showdogs are made for the ring and that's one of the reasons they sell them - I would think a top breeder selling puppies from there lines of champion showdogs would produce that qulaity - that's all AND I never asked to buy a showdog or actually asked if the dog was one - ALL I asked was - who was the Sire and the Dam and the pedigree and NEVER got a straight answer. 
I
[/B][/QUOTE]
Breeders are not God. They can only try to produce better pups each time they breed. Mother Nature is in charge of the outcome, not the breeders. Every 2 champions bred together do not produce future champions....


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

QUOTE (revakb2 @ Apr 22 2009, 11:41 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766181


> I understand your frustration. A lot of the breeders can be very difficult to deal with. I speak from personal experience. I think the best way to find a breeder and puppy you like is to attend all of the dog shows that you can. There is a thread about talking to a breeder at a show. It would probably be good to read that thread if you haven't already. As far as selling or giving away dogs that you have raised and loved, I'm sure it hard for breeders to do. Unfortunately, breeders can only keep so many dogs at a time. Most of the breeders I know raise the dogs inside their home so space and time spent on each dog is limited. They have to make hard choices. They need to decide what dogs will better their breeding program, and which dogs will have a better life as someone's pampered pet. Good breeders always do what is in the best interest of the dog. Sometimes that is to rehome the dog. Btw, I am not a breeder nor do I ever intend to be. You need to keep searching until you find a breeder that answers all of your questions, and you feel comfortable with, but you do have to have patience. In the long run, it will be worth it.[/B]


Hi - thanks for your reply - I am not looking at this time as I have taken my Mom's dog since she cannot take care of her any longer - at some point I will look again once I get this little doll on the road to better health etc... thanks for explaining why they sell their show dogs - I could not understand how they could do it after the dog has given them so much - but - that's just me and I am understanding it is a business and perhaps not really what I thought. I see there is so much more to all of this. I can be naive but want to learn all I can. Thanks again!


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

QUOTE (SicilianRose @ Apr 22 2009, 11:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766183


> Correct me if I am wrong but did you not post before saying that you could not pursue a new furbaby because of your mother becoming ill so you now care for her furbaby? (http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=45091&hl= & If I am right, I hope all is well with your mom. Maybe that is why they are not responding to you at this moment. I do not know, but I do know that you have to be VERY specific as to what you are looking for and sometimes be very persistent because I know the show breeders do get very very busy.[/B]


I'm not looking at this time because I want to get little Bella on a healthy way of life first and get her adjusted and happy to her new home and life - but - at some point I hope to get one - I'd love to have 2 or 3 actually. I am a little naive but want to learn all I can. Thanks for your help!


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

QUOTE (PuttiePie @ Apr 22 2009, 11:50 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766186


> QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 22 2009, 11:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766182





> QUOTE (PuttiePie @ Apr 22 2009, 11:37 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766179





> Chaca maltese is Dian Lynches sister. If you don't want problems, go to a good well known breeder, not a small time one. If you want a SHOWDOG MALTESE, then be prepared to pay 10,000 dollars or more. If you want a PET maltese within standard, go to a decent GOOD well known breeder. I think your expectations of a "Maltese Showdog" are way offbase. If you are telling breeders that you want a SHOWDOG for pet price, I have a feeling they will not want to deal with you. Try telling the breeder you want a Maltese within standard, that might help you...[/B]


Hi - Thanks for your reply - I could have written much more but wanted to condense it and perhaps it came off wrong - I know a showdog costs alot of money and I couldn't buy one anyway since I don't show BUT - if a breeder is breeding their champion showdogs to possibly get another showdog - then why wouldn't the puppies be of that quality - I know not all puppies born to champion showdogs are made for the ring and that's one of the reasons they sell them - I would think a top breeder selling puppies from there lines of champion showdogs would produce that qulaity - that's all AND I never asked to buy a showdog or actually asked if the dog was one - ALL I asked was - who was the Sire and the Dam and the pedigree and NEVER got a straight answer. 
I
[/B][/QUOTE]
Breeders are not God. They can only try to produce better pups each time they breed. Mother Nature is in charge of the outcome, not the breeders. Every 2 champions bred together do not produce future champions....
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you for that info - I am very new to the Maltese world and trying to learn all I can.


----------



## PuttiePie (Nov 22, 2006)

QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 22 2009, 11:58 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766190


> QUOTE (PuttiePie @ Apr 22 2009, 11:50 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766186





> QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 22 2009, 11:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766182





> QUOTE (PuttiePie @ Apr 22 2009, 11:37 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766179





> Chaca maltese is Dian Lynches sister. If you don't want problems, go to a good well known breeder, not a small time one. If you want a SHOWDOG MALTESE, then be prepared to pay 10,000 dollars or more. If you want a PET maltese within standard, go to a decent GOOD well known breeder. I think your expectations of a "Maltese Showdog" are way offbase. If you are telling breeders that you want a SHOWDOG for pet price, I have a feeling they will not want to deal with you. Try telling the breeder you want a Maltese within standard, that might help you...[/B]


Hi - Thanks for your reply - I could have written much more but wanted to condense it and perhaps it came off wrong - I know a showdog costs alot of money and I couldn't buy one anyway since I don't show BUT - if a breeder is breeding their champion showdogs to possibly get another showdog - then why wouldn't the puppies be of that quality - I know not all puppies born to champion showdogs are made for the ring and that's one of the reasons they sell them - I would think a top breeder selling puppies from there lines of champion showdogs would produce that qulaity - that's all AND I never asked to buy a showdog or actually asked if the dog was one - ALL I asked was - who was the Sire and the Dam and the pedigree and NEVER got a straight answer. 
I
[/B][/QUOTE]
Breeders are not God. They can only try to produce better pups each time they breed. Mother Nature is in charge of the outcome, not the breeders. Every 2 champions bred together do not produce future champions....
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you for that info - I am very new to the Maltese world and trying to learn all I can.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Search here and read and learn. ALL the info you need to make a good decision is right on this forum. You have landed in the right place. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

QUOTE (Allheart @ Apr 22 2009, 11:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766176


> Hi!
> 
> I am so sorry you are frustrated, truly I am. I don't have the answers for you. But .....I have been doing some research recently...for maybe adding another in the future...not right away...but anyway...I fell upon this wonderful breeder, who test her pups...and I believe both her male and female are Ch sire and Ch dam...and very good pricing.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU - like you I want to add another one soon .... and THANK YOU for your referral - I appreciate it very much! 
Best to you !


----------



## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

No offense but,


*If you don't want problems, go to a good well known breeder, not a small time one. If you want a SHOWDOG MALTESE, then be prepared to pay 10,000 dollars or more. If you want a PET maltese within standard, go to a decent GOOD well known breeder.
*


I think that there are way too many generalizations concerning comments like these. There may be very good breeders out there who aren't _yet_ well-known. 

What exactly does "small time" mean? If an honest person is showing their dogs and winning CH titles, but isn't a national champion, does that make them "small-time?


JMO, the only label that really matters are whether the breeder's puppies sire and dam have CH in front of their name. That makes them an active Maltese show breeder. Everything else is extremely subjective unless you are talking about a National Champion, or Best in Show. If I am wrong about this, I would gladly like to hear from others. 

Not everyone who is looking for a purebred Maltese can afford a 4,000.00+ pet quality puppy from a "Top tier" breeder, and frankly, I really don't think that paying more will guarantee you get a perfectly healthy dog, and the puppy _that is perfect for you._ There are many Maltese breeders out there who aren't always name-dropped on SM that have beautiful CH show dogs that produce beautiful, sweet, perfect-for-you puppies that for some reason or another, aren't going to be shown. I have a fluffbutt who is one inch longer than the standard, so she was sold as pet quality. She is everything I want in a Maltese. We even call her "perfect Nikki." 

If you are going to buy a puppy from a show breeder that suits YOUR needs, then you have to shop around *a lot,* just like you would do when making any large purchase. If the breeder won't disclose full info on the sire and dam, I'd shop elsewhere. You might have to shop for a long time, or maybe you will get lucky like me and find one in no time.

If you find a puppy you like from one of the more expensive breeders, then fine, if you find one you like from a smaller, less expensive breeder, then fine. As long as the breeder is honest and is actively showing dogs, then you have less to worry about. But do ask a lot of questions in a friendly manner and if they seller is rude or evasive, go elsewhere.


----------



## PuttiePie (Nov 22, 2006)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Apr 22 2009, 12:15 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766197


> No offense but,
> 
> 
> *If you don't want problems, go to a good well known breeder, not a small time one. If you want a SHOWDOG MALTESE, then be prepared to pay 10,000 dollars or more. If you want a PET maltese within standard, go to a decent GOOD well known breeder.
> ...


Reputable breeder with proven show record is what I meant, a breeder with a good solid reputation in the maltese world....I would never pay 4000 for a dog, trust me...There are less expensive breeders that have healthy lines it is not about money.


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

If a breeder won't give you both sides of the pedigree, that's a big red flag and you need to look elsewhere.
Reputable exhibitor breeders will be upfront and honest about what they have available and their pedigrees.
I would venture a guess you have not spoken to those breeders yet.


----------



## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Nanci: Then we are in agreement  Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (PuttiePie @ Apr 22 2009, 11:37 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766179


> Chaca maltese is Dian Lynches sister. If you don't want problems, go to a good well known breeder, not a small time one. If you want a SHOWDOG MALTESE, then be prepared to pay 10,000 dollars or more. If you want a PET maltese within standard, go to a decent GOOD well known breeder. I think your expectations of a "Maltese Showdog" are way offbase. If you are telling breeders that you want a SHOWDOG for pet price, I have a feeling they will not want to deal with you. Try telling the breeder you want a Maltese within standard, that might help you...[/B]



I agree. I think you may be confused about the difference between a show dog and a pet quality dog from a show breeder.

Vanitysmom has an excellent explanation on her website:

http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/show_vs_pet.htm


----------



## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Most highly respected show breeders have the sire and dam listed along with the picture of any puppy available on their websites. Rhapsody for instance--click on the puppy picture and read all about it including links to sire and dam's pedigrees. I have never had anyone I've asked for pedigrees refuse that info. if it wasn't already on their website.

I don't agree that every good puppy has to have Ch. in front of both it's parents names. It is nice to see (and I would want to see mostly Ch.'s in five generations), but many dogs who became top in their breed in show and in producing future champions had a dam (usually dam) that was not a champion. Many great mommies were just not the right personality for the ring but deemed by the breeder as the quality needed for a parent.


----------



## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Apr 22 2009, 01:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766229


> Most highly respected show breeders have the sire and dam listed along with the picture of any puppy available on their websites. Rhapsody for instance--click on the puppy picture and read all about it including links to sire and dam's pedigrees. I have never had anyone I've asked for pedigrees refuse that info. if it wasn't already on their website.
> 
> I don't agree that every good puppy has to have Ch. in front of both it's parents names. It is nice to see (and I would want to see mostly Ch.'s in five generations), but many dogs who became top in their breed in show and in producing future champions had a dam (usually dam) that was not a champion. Many great mommies were just not the right personality for the ring but deemed by the breeder as the quality needed for a parent. [/B]


It is true that just because a dog has CH in front of it's name doesn't make it a top quality dog. Any full blood malt can be championed if it is shown enough and in the right places. If someone only shows in small town local shows and their malt is the only maltese in the ring.....guess which malt wins. Also, some breeders enter multiple malts of their own to compete against each other. That way their dog wins and gets the built in points.


----------



## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

I thought I did a lot of research and took my time when I got my dog, but I now see I could have done more. Most importantly take your time, ask lots of questions and visit many breeders. I think you will do OK if you keep in touch with the forum.


----------



## LamborghiniGirl (Apr 16, 2009)

QUOTE (Maglily @ Apr 22 2009, 01:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766236


> I thought I did a lot of research and took my time when I got my dog, but I now see I could have done more. Most importantly take your time, ask lots of questions and visit many breeders. I think you will do OK if you keep in touch with the forum.[/B]


So lets say you find what you think is a wonderful breeder, but they won't let you visit the puppies. Is that pretty standard? Or a red flag?


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (LamborghiniGirl @ Apr 22 2009, 12:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766239


> QUOTE (Maglily @ Apr 22 2009, 01:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766236





> I thought I did a lot of research and took my time when I got my dog, but I now see I could have done more. Most importantly take your time, ask lots of questions and visit many breeders. I think you will do OK if you keep in touch with the forum.[/B]


So lets say you find what you think is a wonderful breeder, but they won't let you visit the puppies. Is that pretty standard? Or a red flag?
[/B][/QUOTE]

It depends on the age of the pups. Many won't let you visit before 12 weeks since they are still somewhat unprotected
against illnesses. Breeder/exhibitors are busy people in their own right and to have people in and out all the time to see
very young babies isn't in the best interest of the other dogs as well as their schedules.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (LamborghiniGirl @ Apr 22 2009, 01:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766239


> QUOTE (Maglily @ Apr 22 2009, 01:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766236





> I thought I did a lot of research and took my time when I got my dog, but I now see I could have done more. Most importantly take your time, ask lots of questions and visit many breeders. I think you will do OK if you keep in touch with the forum.[/B]


So lets say you find what you think is a wonderful breeder, but they won't let you visit the puppies. Is that pretty standard? Or a red flag?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Most responsible breeders won't let you visit until the puppies are twelve weeks old for fear of Parvo. It can be carried in on your shoes.


----------



## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

I agree with the above two posts, but would like to add that if a breeder NEVER lets you visit the pups OR their kennel area, that is a red flag. Like the two ladies above said, there are legit reasons why many breeders do not want "outside people" near the puppies when they are so young, but by 12 weeks if the breeder still will not let you view the puppies, I would look elsewhere. I think most breeders though would explain to you why you may not be able to visit the pups just yet.


----------



## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

If you're not being given answers to basic questions like the sire and dam, then i would have to wonder why that is and would probably look elsewhere. Was the breeder you contacted who charged $3500 one of the ones who wouldn't provide that info? That's even more reason to look elsewhere. Having a champion male or two doesn't make someone a reputable show breeder, especially if they just bought the dog and had nothing to do with showing it to their championship title. 

I also wanted to clarify some info you were given earlier - Chaca Maltese is not one of Dian's Lynch's sister, but is a good friend with very similar lines. If you arent' getting answers to emails, I would call the breeder in question. 
I know I'm not the best at keeping up with emails! Show quality maltese are very rarely $10,000 but they do run higher than 'pets'. 

If you arent' getting satisfactory answers, you might be contacting the wrong breeders. Many breeders have pedigrees and pictures readily available on their web site. 

How you word things is an important thing also, esp if you are working under the assumption that putting two champion parents together will consistantly give you show quality puppies. Soooo many things have to come together to get a nice show pup. Bite,size, temperament, coat, structure, pigment, etc and that leaves room for a lot of things to go 'off' on a puppy, rendering them more suited for a pet home than the show ring. That article that Marj gave you is a very explanation of things. From a breeder perspective, someone asking for a show dog quality pet is bound to throw up some red flags. 

So do not despair, just keep your search up!


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I won't let anyone touch my 6 week old puppies. Guests in our home must remove shoes at the door and wash their hands just to be in my house. So no, not letting you see young puppies is not alarming to me so long as they will provide pictures.


----------



## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

When I was looking for a pup, Mia's breeder, Chrisman, demanded that I drive to his home to meet him in person. He was very selective about who he sells his dogs to and wanted to meet my husband and I.

When we went to his home, I saw Mia for the first time. I instantly fell in love. Chris also showed me her ENTIRE pedigree, BEFORE I even told him if I was buying. Chris had the pedigree available for me and actually explained the entire pedigree to me, b/c I did not know how to read a pedigree. 

I had a wonderful time meeting Chris because he was very open with me. The only thing he asked was to ask me to remove my boots b/c he was afraid that if I had stepped on something then it would carry it into the home and he did not want Mia to lick the germs, b/c she was only a puppy and did not have all of her shots yet.

Chris did not put Mia's pedigree on his website but he showed it during my visit. When I met him again to pick Mia up, he gave me her complete set of paperwork, including pedigree, health records.


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Apr 22 2009, 12:15 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766197


> No offense but,
> 
> 
> *If you don't want problems, go to a good well known breeder, not a small time one. If you want a SHOWDOG MALTESE, then be prepared to pay 10,000 dollars or more. If you want a PET maltese within standard, go to a decent GOOD well known breeder.
> ...


First - wanted to say your Nikki is adorable - what a face  
Next - here's the deal that I don't understand - from what I read it says best to buy from a breeder who shows - usually that breeder breeds for the betterment and to improve the breed - they know their bloodlines and one is safer in getting a healthy puppy than from a puppymill or BYB - and from time to time they have puppies that don't meet the standards for showing or don't like to be in the ring or whatever - so.... after reading this I search via google and come up with what I found out to be some of the top people in the Maltese show world - I spoke with Joyce Watkins first - she was lovely but did not have any puppies available - she gave me a name of smeone else but by time I called that puppy had sold. I then went on to contact a few others who show and have champions and had puppies and they are the ones I am talking about who were vague in answering the 3 questions - who is the Sire and the Dam and what is pedigree .... now I would think that info would be forthcoming since they wanted me to sell me a puppy for alot of money or put a deposit on a litter that is due - they want a deposit based on there word that the puppy is going to be healthy and beautiful BUT will not give out the answer as to the linage... of course I went elsewhere. I am friendly and respectful and everyone said by the sound of my voice and my manners all said they would be happy to sell me a puppy - and when I asked the questions I was given vague answers. I don't know what else to say other than why spend all the money on a puppy if you don't know what you are getting ??? Thank you for your help - I really appreciate it!


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

QUOTE (JMM @ Apr 22 2009, 03:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766290


> I won't let anyone touch my 6 week old puppies. Guests in our home must remove shoes at the door and wash their hands just to be in my house. So no, not letting you see young puppies is not alarming to me so long as they will provide pictures.[/B]


I don't blame anyone for being protective over their puppies - that's a good sign as far I am concerned. All I wanted was to know who the father and mother of the puppy I was buying and the pedigree - to be honest I wouldn't know what the pedigree really meant but I saw where it said to ask for it - the red flag was the breeder not wanting to tell - what is there to hide - again I wouldn't know what it meant but I know when someone is hiding something and that is the issue here.


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

QUOTE (godiva goddess @ Apr 22 2009, 04:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766306


> When I was looking for a pup, Mia's breeder, Chrisman, demanded that I drive to his home to meet him in person. He was very selective about who he sells his dogs to and wanted to meet my husband and I.
> 
> When we went to his home, I saw Mia for the first time. I instantly fell in love. Chris also showed me her ENTIRE pedigree, BEFORE I even told him if I was buying. Chris had the pedigree available for me and actually explained the entire pedigree to me, b/c I did not know how to read a pedigree.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your story - I feel you were entitled to know that info - isn't that what you paid all the money for - to get a healthy quality dog from a reputable breeder who worked with you thru the process and dislcosed what you were buying. You were very lucky to have that experience and look how happy you are and your little Mia is wonderful. Thanks again!


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Apr 22 2009, 03:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766277


> If you're not being given answers to basic questions like the sire and dam, then i would have to wonder why that is and would probably look elsewhere. Was the breeder you contacted who charged $3500 one of the ones who wouldn't provide that info? That's even more reason to look elsewhere. Having a champion male or two doesn't make someone a reputable show breeder, especially if they just bought the dog and had nothing to do with showing it to their championship title.
> 
> I also wanted to clarify some info you were given earlier - Chaca Maltese is not one of Dian's Lynch's sister, but is a good friend with very similar lines. If you arent' getting answers to emails, I would call the breeder in question.
> I know I'm not the best at keeping up with emails! Show quality maltese are very rarely $10,000 but they do run higher than 'pets'.
> ...


Thank you so much for your reply - I'm happy that you understand what I am saying - I asked what I feel were basic questions in light of the fact that is what I paying for - isn't that one of the reason to pay 2000.00 and up for a dog - to know what you are buying - I don't feel it is being rude to ask who are the parents and what is the lineage. 

Yes the breeder charging 3500.00 was one of them and she professed that she knows her stuff - she said she's been doing this a long time - her puppies are from champion bloodlines - so I said - who is the father and the mother and she was vague - I'm not sure what she said exactly - she glossed over it and she kept saying over and over that her dogs are beautiful and healthy - she went as far as to warn me of some of the so called top tier breeders/show dog owners..... she said "visit there kennels and you will see all is not what you think". 

I also was in contact with a few other top breeders who have their pedigrees on their website but the puppies for sale were not from any of the dogs on the web page and they were not forth coming with who the one or both parents were - when i asked if they could email me photos of the parents - they said OK BUT did not -do it - so that was my red flag - I think I worded it wrong when I said "show dog" ... the first Maltese I saw was a show dog so that was what I thought all purebred Maltese's would look like - boy - was I wrong and in for the ride of my life just trying to figure out what and where to buy a dog - I mean - I thought - want a dog - find a dog - go get a dog ...LOL !!!! anyway I do not want a show dog because I do not show BUT if the breeder is showing and breeding for themselves for the betterment then I would think they would be selling some mighty fine dogs - but - I guess I'm wrong and I have a ways to go to fully understand the whole deal and that is why I put up this thread. Thanks again for taking the time to read my post and reply - I appreciate it !


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

QUOTE (PuttiePie @ Apr 22 2009, 11:37 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766179


> Chaca maltese is Dian Lynches sister. If you don't want problems, go to a good well known breeder, not a small time one. If you want a SHOWDOG MALTESE, then be prepared to pay 10,000 dollars or more. If you want a PET maltese within standard, go to a decent GOOD well known breeder. I think your expectations of a "Maltese Showdog" are way offbase. If you are telling breeders that you want a SHOWDOG for pet price, I have a feeling they will not want to deal with you. Try telling the breeder you want a Maltese within standard, that might help you...[/B]


I also meant to say I did go to several well known breeders - I don't believe I went to anyone small time that I know of and I never said I wanted a Showdog - I do not show. Thanks again !!!


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

QUOTE (Cosy @ Apr 22 2009, 12:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766203


> If a breeder won't give you both sides of the pedigree, that's a big red flag and you need to look elsewhere.
> Reputable exhibitor breeders will be upfront and honest about what they have available and their pedigrees.
> I would venture a guess you have not spoken to those breeders yet. [/B]


Believe it or not - I did - and that is what is so upsetting - 2 of them had a puppy for sale that was not from any of the dogs listed on their websites - so I asked for a photo of the Sire and the Dam and they both said they would email them and then they didn't ....why wouldn't they tell me or send photos - I don't understand that.


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Apr 22 2009, 12:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766209


> QUOTE (PuttiePie @ Apr 22 2009, 11:37 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766179





> Chaca maltese is Dian Lynches sister. If you don't want problems, go to a good well known breeder, not a small time one. If you want a SHOWDOG MALTESE, then be prepared to pay 10,000 dollars or more. If you want a PET maltese within standard, go to a decent GOOD well known breeder. I think your expectations of a "Maltese Showdog" are way offbase. If you are telling breeders that you want a SHOWDOG for pet price, I have a feeling they will not want to deal with you. Try telling the breeder you want a Maltese within standard, that might help you...[/B]



I agree. I think you may be confused about the difference between a show dog and a pet quality dog from a show breeder.

Vanitysmom has an excellent explanation on her website:

http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/show_vs_pet.htm
[/B][/QUOTE]

Hi - thank you for your reply - I do know the difference and I did not want to buy a show dog - first I don't show so I couldn't buy one - I wanted to buy a "show dog quality " - one that was healthy and had a good coat and pigment -every breeder I spoke with understood that term and all assured me that was what they had for sale and besides why would anyone pay all that money and not expect some of the qualities - amd if the showdog breeder is breeding for the betterment of the breed then I think one could expect to get a pretty nice dog. Everyone I spoke with wanted to sell me a dog but they did not want to take the time to answer the questions - and I suppose they don't have to - they are selling their puppies anyway - I will not apologize for wanting to know what i am spending 2500.00 and up for and I am nice and respectful - even when they wouldn't answer my questions - I thanked them for their help. I believe the issue is - they sell their puppies no matter what - so - they don't have to answer if they don't want to. Thanks again for your help - I appreciate !!!


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 22 2009, 05:28 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766354


> QUOTE (Cosy @ Apr 22 2009, 12:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766203





> If a breeder won't give you both sides of the pedigree, that's a big red flag and you need to look elsewhere.
> Reputable exhibitor breeders will be upfront and honest about what they have available and their pedigrees.
> I would venture a guess you have not spoken to those breeders yet. [/B]


Believe it or not - I did - and that is what is so upsetting - 2 of them had a puppy for sale that was not from any of the dogs listed on their websites - so I asked for a photo of the Sire and the Dam and they both said they would email them and then they didn't ....why wouldn't they tell me or send photos - I don't understand that.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I hope this doesn't come across as unkind, but I am thinking that these breeders for whatever reason may have decided you are not someone who they would feel comfortable selling a puppy to. That would explain why no further information about pedigrees or photos were given to you.


----------



## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (PuttiePie @ Apr 22 2009, 11:37 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766179


> If you want a SHOWDOG MALTESE, then be prepared to pay 10,000 dollars or more. If you want a PET maltese within standard, go to a decent GOOD well known breeder. I think your expectations of a "Maltese Showdog" are way offbase. If you are telling breeders that you want a SHOWDOG for pet price, I have a feeling they will not want to deal with you. Try telling the breeder you want a Maltese within standard, that might help you...[/B]


10,000 is high. I do not know many people who paid that kind of price for their show maltese. The cases I do know of the dog was already a Ch. 

QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 22 2009, 05:28 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766354


> QUOTE (Cosy @ Apr 22 2009, 12:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766203





> If a breeder won't give you both sides of the pedigree, that's a big red flag and you need to look elsewhere.
> Reputable exhibitor breeders will be upfront and honest about what they have available and their pedigrees.
> I would venture a guess you have not spoken to those breeders yet. [/B]


Believe it or not - I did - and that is what is so upsetting - 2 of them had a puppy for sale that was not from any of the dogs listed on their websites - so I asked for a photo of the Sire and the Dam and they both said they would email them and then they didn't ....why wouldn't they tell me or send photos - I don't understand that.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with Brit, this is a huge red flag in most cases. Reputable breeders usually plan their breedings and their pedigrees and are happy to share them. I would certainly ask more questions about the reason for this. However, there are some times when a reputable breeder may not be able to tell you at the given time. Some breeders will breed more than one male deliberately to a female. I have heard a variety of reasons for this. But it is more common than I would have expected. Recently, I have heard some of the top names in the sport say they have done it. For example, a reason I have heard is when a bitch has not taken on previous breedings. Nowadays, they can always go back later and do a DNA test. If the breeder has done this then this could explain why they are unable to provide this answer before they give the test. However, as a buyer I would never buy a puppy until both the sire and dam are known. 

I also would not commit to buying a puppy unless I had at least seen pictures of both the sire and dam. As for the photos on websites, many breeders are way behind on updating their online info. I know of several breeders who do not have their current champions or breeding dogs listed. It frustrates me, too. I love looking a pictures and wish that these sites would stay updated, but an up-to-date website is not really the mark of a great breeder. Many great breeders do not even have websites. 

When making the choice of a breeder, I would certainly look for one who is responsive to your questions. But I would also give them a chance to respond. I find that a lot of breeders get busy with dog shows and with whelping litters and they may get a lot of email. This means they may get behind in their answers. If you like everything else about that breeder, I would encourage you to try again.


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 22 2009, 04:37 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766358


> QUOTE (LadysMom @ Apr 22 2009, 12:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766209





> QUOTE (PuttiePie @ Apr 22 2009, 11:37 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766179





> Chaca maltese is Dian Lynches sister. If you don't want problems, go to a good well known breeder, not a small time one. If you want a SHOWDOG MALTESE, then be prepared to pay 10,000 dollars or more. If you want a PET maltese within standard, go to a decent GOOD well known breeder. I think your expectations of a "Maltese Showdog" are way offbase. If you are telling breeders that you want a SHOWDOG for pet price, I have a feeling they will not want to deal with you. Try telling the breeder you want a Maltese within standard, that might help you...[/B]



I agree. I think you may be confused about the difference between a show dog and a pet quality dog from a show breeder.

Vanitysmom has an excellent explanation on her website:

http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/show_vs_pet.htm
[/B][/QUOTE]

Hi - thank you for your reply - I do know the difference and I did not want to buy a show dog - first I don't show so I couldn't buy one - I wanted to buy a "show dog quality " - one that was healthy and had a good coat and pigment -every breeder I spoke with understood that term and all assured me that was what they had for sale and besides why would anyone pay all that money and not expect some of the qualities - amd if the showdog breeder is breeding for the betterment of the breed then I think one could expect to get a pretty nice dog. Everyone I spoke with wanted to sell me a dog but they did not want to take the time to answer the questions - and I suppose they don't have to - they are selling their puppies anyway - I will not apologize for wanting to know what i am spending 2500.00 and up for and I am nice and respectful - even when they wouldn't answer my questions - I thanked them for their help. I believe the issue is - they sell their puppies no matter what - so - they don't have to answer if they don't want to. Thanks again for your help - I appreciate !!!
[/B][/QUOTE]


"Show dog quality" to me sounds like a showdog. I'm really confused by that term if you think differently. Perhaps the breeders want you to see the pup before they give out all the info pertaining to her/him. Maybe by your asking for all the info upfront that didn't set well with them. Take one step at a time. Oh, and some pics take time to get as they have to go take the pictures and then email them to you. You did give an email address, right? Sending a reminder that you are waiting on the pics isn't a bad idea either. Exhibitor breeders are very busy and it can take a few days or so before they get it all done.


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Apr 22 2009, 05:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766361


> QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 22 2009, 05:28 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766354





> QUOTE (Cosy @ Apr 22 2009, 12:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766203





> If a breeder won't give you both sides of the pedigree, that's a big red flag and you need to look elsewhere.
> Reputable exhibitor breeders will be upfront and honest about what they have available and their pedigrees.
> I would venture a guess you have not spoken to those breeders yet. [/B]


Believe it or not - I did - and that is what is so upsetting - 2 of them had a puppy for sale that was not from any of the dogs listed on their websites - so I asked for a photo of the Sire and the Dam and they both said they would email them and then they didn't ....why wouldn't they tell me or send photos - I don't understand that.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I hope this doesn't come across as unkind, but I am thinking that these breeders for whatever reason may have decided you are not someone who they would feel comfortable selling a puppy to. That would explain why no further information about pedigrees or photos were given to you.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I understand what you are saying and no I don't think it is unkind - I'm sure that is the case - they did not want to answer the questions and they knew someone else would buy their puppies anyway so they didn't bother - I wonder how many here asked who the Sire and Dam was of the puppy they purchased. Also - only one asked about me - I know they all say they are picky who the puppies go to but I'm telling you ONLY one asked me personal questions and based on my answers she wanted to sell me her one year old recently championed female who she loved but was too small to breed - she said she liked me so much and thought my home would be perfect for her dog that she had to give up. So. I know how I come across and I'm not demanding so i know it wasn't me.


----------



## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

Any breeders that you do not hear back from through email may not check it as often as you would think, so you can always give them a call. I have emailed breeders before and although I would like to hear back from them within a day or two, sometimes it takes them a week or so to respond. You never know if they are out of town, exhibiting, or have a family emergency. If I were you I would send another email (or call) the breeder that you had asked who the sire & dam were.

There is a breeder I am currently in contact with that is planning on breeding a couple of females in May/June, and because I'm hoping I will be ready to get a puppy this fall/winter/early spring, I have asked her who the planned sires/dams are for these litters. She has been most helpful in telling me, showing pictures, etc. This particular breeder has been VERY honest with me from the start, even stating that she isn't sure which other sire she will use. So if you don't feel like any one breeder is giving you the exact information you would like, then I would pass on them. The relationship with your puppy's breeder should be open and honest. 

Please list any specific breeders you are looking at if you would like help in determining whether or not they come highly recommended.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (LJSquishy @ Apr 22 2009, 07:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766405


> Any breeders that you do not hear back from through email may not check it as often as you would think, so you can always give them a call. I have emailed breeders before and although I would like to hear back from them within a day or two, sometimes it takes them a week or so to respond. You never know if they are out of town, exhibiting, or have a family emergency. If I were you I would send another email (or call) the breeder that you had asked who the sire & dam were.
> 
> There is a breeder I am currently in contact with that is planning on breeding a couple of females in May/June, and because I'm hoping I will be ready to get a puppy this fall/winter/early spring, I have asked her who the planned sires/dams are for these litters. She has been most helpful in telling me, showing pictures, etc. This particular breeder has been VERY honest with me from the start, even stating that she isn't sure which other sire she will use. So if you don't feel like any one breeder is giving you the exact information you would like, then I would pass on them. The relationship with your puppy's breeder should be open and honest.
> 
> Please list any specific breeders you are looking at if you would like help in determining whether or not they come highly recommended. [/B]



Remember, show breeders are very busy and travel quite a bit to show. They get lots of inquiries, too, and just may not have time to answer all their emails. Unlike pet stores or backyard breeders, they are not in the business of selling puppies for profit. They breed to produce dogs to show and improve the breed and only sell those that may not be show quality. These breeders have more demand than supply and a wait list is very common. We normally tell newbies to expect their search for a reputable breeder to take about a year. As Lil Squishy said, the breeder she is working with has not even bred her Maltese yet!

As I said before, though, my hunch is that you and this particular breeder just didn't click for some reason.


----------



## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

I'm sorry I must confess that I haven't read all the comments in this post. But I did read that you said you were not ready for a puppy yet. Show breeders are busy people and they will take time with you if you show them that you are very serious - can you imagine the amount of calls/e-mails they must get? So you may be serious, but you're not ready...so what to do???? Money talks, pay a substantial deposit and be serious about your wanting a pup and let the breeder know what type of personality you're looking for and what physical traits you'd like, ex. baby doll face, on the smaller or larger end of the AKC standard, whatever...... Then keep in touch with the breeder and let her know periodically exactly when you think you'll be ready for a pup. Puppies are not always just sitting there waiting for someone to buy them. If you want a good quality dog - you may have to wait even when you are ready. 

Or follow a couple of breeder's web-sites and watch for new litters. Getting the perfect pup takes time and effort. But when you finally get that "one" - all is well with the world and life is good again. I just got a puppy from Bonnie Palmer in Florida - she's just the most precious perfect little darling I've ever seen in my life.....it was worth the wait. Good Luck.


----------



## Deborah (Jan 8, 2006)

I usually do not respond to these type of questions but for some odd reason I feel the need to chime in. What I think you want is a pet from Show Quality Maltese. So I think that when you are asking your questions they are thinking that you want to buy a Show Dog. I have no idea of their requirements. When you ask for a pet from Show Dogs it usually means that somewhere along the line that the Maltese they are showing has something not quite up to the standard. Rylee was going to be used for breeding but my breeder changed her mind and decided she was Pet Quality. The teeth can be off ,too small to be bred etc. I am positive that if I wanted to buy a Show Maltese I would not be able to buy one from any of the top breeders. I think they are right in that they want to better the breed. I am clueless as to how one goes about getting a Show Maltese. The one exception are retired show dogs. 
My breeder gave me all the information on the Sire and Dam. She also brought the dog to my house. She was pretty sure I would be OK but took the time to see where her puppy was going to live.
I wish you the best in finding the right Maltese for you.


----------



## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

I have to be honest as wrell that I didn't read most of the other post. I'm thinking you want a pet quality malt that looks like a show quality malt, right?

Most puppies you get from these reputable show malt breeders will end up looking like a show quality malt(if you don't cut their hair of course!) My Gigi was held back for show, but couldn't be shown because her bite went slightly off, too small to be bred, shy personality, so she would be sold as a pet. Neither of Gigi's parents were Champions, but Gigi's pedigree has mostly champions in it. Her breeder told us her parents did not like the show ring, but she felt they both were perfect examples of the breed standard. And I agreed because when I saw them, my jaw dropped, they were absolutly stunning! While we were at the breeder's house for some hours, she told everything, and I mean _everything _on how to take care of a maltese. We went over the health for about an hour alone! Our breeder also wasn't a show crazy person(all her malts went with handlers to be shown) LOL so she took the time, answered some questions, conversated, laughed, told us all our mistakes we made with our beloved malt pup Imani(RIP) and how to not make those mistakes again with Gigi, ect. It was great! 
Although Gigi has some minor faults, everywhere I take her, *everybody* always ask if she is a show dog. They also say they never have seen a maltese so small, they thought malts are supposed to be around 10 pounds! :shocked: Gigi is only about four pounds but perfect to the standard of the maltese. Sometimes I just think I should wear a shirt that has a picture of a maltese and the standard on my back, because if I had a penny for everytime somebody asked me this, I would be rich! :smilie_tischkante: There aren't many show breeders around this area, so many of the malts are from pet shops/BYBs. They never really see what a true maltese should look like. They ask were I got her from too, and I say a reputable show breeder. And then they say, oh that must be expensive. And then I tell them maltese pups that are PET quality males should range $1000-2000, for girls $2000-3000. They are shocked.


----------



## Guest (Apr 23, 2009)

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Apr 23 2009, 10:29 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766701


> I have to be honest as wrell that I didn't read most of the other post. I'm thinking you want a pet quality malt that looks like a show quality malt, right?
> 
> Most puppies you get from these reputable show malt breeders will end up looking like a show quality malt(if you don't cut their hair of course!) My Gigi was held back for show, but couldn't be shown because her bite went slightly off, too small to be bred, shy personality, so she would be sold as a pet. Neither of Gigi's parents were Champions, but Gigi's pedigree has mostly champions in it. Her breeder told us her parents did not like the show ring, but she felt they both were perfect examples of the breed standard. And I agreed because when I saw them, my jaw dropped, they were absolutly stunning! While we were at the breeder's house for some hours, she told everything, and I mean _everything _on how to take care of a maltese. We went over the health for about an hour alone! Our breeder also wasn't a show crazy person(all her malts went with handlers to be shown) LOL so she took the time, answered some questions, conversated, laughed, told us all our mistakes we made with our beloved malt pup Imani(RIP) and how to not make those mistakes again with Gigi, ect. It was great!
> Although Gigi has some minor faults, everywhere I take her, *everybody* always ask if she is a show dog. They also say they never have seen a maltese so small, they thought malts are supposed to be around 10 pounds! :shocked: Gigi is only about four pounds but perfect to the standard of the maltese. Sometimes I just think I should wear a shirt that has a picture of a maltese and the standard on my back, because if I had a penny for everytime somebody asked me this, I would be rich! :smilie_tischkante: There aren't many show breeders around this area, so many of the malts are from pet shops/BYBs. They never really see what a true maltese should look like. They ask were I got her from too, and I say a reputable show breeder. And then they say, oh that must be expensive. And then I tell them maltese pups that are PET quality males should range $1000-2000, for girls $2000-3000. They are shocked.[/B]


Hello and thank you for your reply as you are one of the only ones who are understanding what I am saying - YES... I want a pet quality with the show qualties - healthy breeding, nice coat, good pigment and ALL the breeders I talked too understood that statement and ALL said that their puppies are show quality but can't be shown for various reasons like the ones you listed. For some reason alot of people here think I was wanting a showdog - even if I had the money to buy a Showdog I couldn't because I don't show. Also as I said over and over why go to reputable show breeder and pay alot of money and not expect to get those qualities. So, thank you for understanding what I am saying. Question for you - are the people shocked because they think that is expensive or because it is a good price... everyone I have talked to is shocked that I would consider paying that much - they all thought you could buy a purebred Maltese for 800-1000.00. I find that most people have no idea the cost. 

Thanks again !


----------



## Guest (Apr 23, 2009)

QUOTE (Deborah @ Apr 22 2009, 11:55 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766561


> I usually do not respond to these type of questions but for some odd reason I feel the need to chime in. What I think you want is a pet from Show Quality Maltese. So I think that when you are asking your questions they are thinking that you want to buy a Show Dog. I have no idea of their requirements. When you ask for a pet from Show Dogs it usually means that somewhere along the line that the Maltese they are showing has something not quite up to the standard. Rylee was going to be used for breeding but my breeder changed her mind and decided she was Pet Quality. The teeth can be off ,too small to be bred etc. I am positive that if I wanted to buy a Show Maltese I would not be able to buy one from any of the top breeders. I think they are right in that they want to better the breed. I am clueless as to how one goes about getting a Show Maltese. The one exception are retired show dogs.
> My breeder gave me all the information on the Sire and Dam. She also brought the dog to my house. She was pretty sure I would be OK but took the time to see where her puppy was going to live.
> I wish you the best in finding the right Maltese for you.[/B]


Hi - thank you for your reply - you are right and honestly ALL the breeders I spoke with all knew what I was looking for - I told them I am looking for a pet who has the qualities of a show dog - the nice coat, black pigment, etc..etc.. they all said YES that is what they sell .... so.... there was no miscommincation with the breeders - they knew what I wanted and quoted me a price and all was fine until I asked if they could tell me the Sire and Dam and if they had pictures of them and the pedigree - that's when things went south - they did not want to tell me that except as I said Dian Lynch - she was wonderful and forthcoming with all questions and info - she was really busy with shows and did not get back to me which I totally understand. I think even if I had the money to buy a Showdog I don't think I could - I'm pretty sure you have sign a contract saying you will show the dog - I'm not positive on that. One breeder offered to sell me her 1 year old female who had been in one show and had some points - she told me nothing was wrong with her except she was too small for her to breed so that was why she wanted her to go to a good person and home - she said she thought by my voice and my life and home I sounded perfect - when I asked her about the dogs pedigree ( I was just curious ) she got defensive and said it doesn't matter since you aren't breeding her. That's when I knew perhaps she wasn't someone I should deal with. You are fortunate that you got all the info on your puppy - I feel that is what we are paying for - to know where the puppy comes from - maybe I'm wrong. Thanks again for your help.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 23 2009, 12:34 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766749


> QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Apr 23 2009, 10:29 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766701





> I have to be honest as wrell that I didn't read most of the other post. I'm thinking you want a pet quality malt that looks like a show quality malt, right?
> 
> Most puppies you get from these reputable show malt breeders will end up looking like a show quality malt(if you don't cut their hair of course!) My Gigi was held back for show, but couldn't be shown because her bite went slightly off, too small to be bred, shy personality, so she would be sold as a pet. Neither of Gigi's parents were Champions, but Gigi's pedigree has mostly champions in it. Her breeder told us her parents did not like the show ring, but she felt they both were perfect examples of the breed standard. And I agreed because when I saw them, my jaw dropped, they were absolutly stunning! While we were at the breeder's house for some hours, she told everything, and I mean _everything _on how to take care of a maltese. We went over the health for about an hour alone! Our breeder also wasn't a show crazy person(all her malts went with handlers to be shown) LOL so she took the time, answered some questions, conversated, laughed, told us all our mistakes we made with our beloved malt pup Imani(RIP) and how to not make those mistakes again with Gigi, ect. It was great!
> Although Gigi has some minor faults, everywhere I take her, *everybody* always ask if she is a show dog. They also say they never have seen a maltese so small, they thought malts are supposed to be around 10 pounds! :shocked: Gigi is only about four pounds but perfect to the standard of the maltese. Sometimes I just think I should wear a shirt that has a picture of a maltese and the standard on my back, because if I had a penny for everytime somebody asked me this, I would be rich! :smilie_tischkante: There aren't many show breeders around this area, so many of the malts are from pet shops/BYBs. They never really see what a true maltese should look like. They ask were I got her from too, and I say a reputable show breeder. And then they say, oh that must be expensive. And then I tell them maltese pups that are PET quality males should range $1000-2000, for girls $2000-3000. They are shocked.[/B]


Hello and thank you for your reply as you are one of the only ones who are understanding what I am saying - YES... I want a pet quality with the show qualties - healthy breeding, nice coat, good pigment and ALL the breeders I talked too understood that statement and ALL said that their puppies are show quality but can't be shown for various reasons like the ones you listed. For some reason alot of people here think I was wanting a showdog - even if I had the money to buy a Showdog I couldn't because I don't show. Also as I said over and over why go to reputable show breeder and pay alot of money and not expect to get those qualities. So, thank you for understanding what I am saying. Question for you - are the people shocked because they think that is expensive or because it is a good price... everyone I have talked to is shocked that I would consider paying that much - they all thought you could buy a purebred Maltese for 800-1000.00. I find that most people have no idea the cost. 

Thanks again !
[/B][/QUOTE]


I think people are used to seeing ads for Maltese from backyard breeders in their local newspaper and assume $800 is a good price. What they don't realize is that a bargain puppy can cost a fortune in vet bills over its lifetime. My Lady is a rescue, but from a backyard breeder. She has so many health issues, including diabetes and epilepsy. I now spend about $5,000 a year on diabetic supplies and medications alone. This does not include vet bills which add about another $1,500-2,000 to that total. She has chronic infections because of the diabetes plus we usually have at least one big emergency requiring hospitalization a year. I just spent $250 in the past three days on her stubborn vaginal infection. Diabetics are slow to heal and recover from infections.

Obviously, I think spending $2500 on a healthy puppy from a reputable breeder is a deal.


----------



## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Because these posts are so long I've skipped ahead a bit. Did you say if you are looking for just a girl, or either? I do know it is much easier to come across a boy that the breeder isn't keeping for show, but he is show quality. They don't need to champion as many boys to keep for breeding, so are more likely to let a show quality boy go to a pet home--and boys are cheaper anyway. I happen to prefer boys and think they are more lovable pets. I know most of the owners here have girls and think they prefer them, but it is usually is because they want to dress a little girl.


----------



## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 23 2009, 12:34 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766749


> QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Apr 23 2009, 10:29 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766701





> I have to be honest as wrell that I didn't read most of the other post. I'm thinking you want a pet quality malt that looks like a show quality malt, right?
> 
> Most puppies you get from these reputable show malt breeders will end up looking like a show quality malt(if you don't cut their hair of course!) My Gigi was held back for show, but couldn't be shown because her bite went slightly off, too small to be bred, shy personality, so she would be sold as a pet. Neither of Gigi's parents were Champions, but Gigi's pedigree has mostly champions in it. Her breeder told us her parents did not like the show ring, but she felt they both were perfect examples of the breed standard. And I agreed because when I saw them, my jaw dropped, they were absolutly stunning! While we were at the breeder's house for some hours, she told everything, and I mean _everything _on how to take care of a maltese. We went over the health for about an hour alone! Our breeder also wasn't a show crazy person(all her malts went with handlers to be shown) LOL so she took the time, answered some questions, conversated, laughed, told us all our mistakes we made with our beloved malt pup Imani(RIP) and how to not make those mistakes again with Gigi, ect. It was great!
> Although Gigi has some minor faults, everywhere I take her, *everybody* always ask if she is a show dog. They also say they never have seen a maltese so small, they thought malts are supposed to be around 10 pounds! :shocked: Gigi is only about four pounds but perfect to the standard of the maltese. Sometimes I just think I should wear a shirt that has a picture of a maltese and the standard on my back, because if I had a penny for everytime somebody asked me this, I would be rich! :smilie_tischkante: There aren't many show breeders around this area, so many of the malts are from pet shops/BYBs. They never really see what a true maltese should look like. They ask were I got her from too, and I say a reputable show breeder. And then they say, oh that must be expensive. And then I tell them maltese pups that are PET quality males should range $1000-2000, for girls $2000-3000. They are shocked.[/B]


Hello and thank you for your reply as you are one of the only ones who are understanding what I am saying - YES... I want a pet quality with the show qualties - healthy breeding, nice coat, good pigment and ALL the breeders I talked too understood that statement and ALL said that their puppies are show quality but can't be shown for various reasons like the ones you listed. For some reason alot of people here think I was wanting a showdog - even if I had the money to buy a Showdog I couldn't because I don't show. Also as I said over and over why go to reputable show breeder and pay alot of money and not expect to get those qualities. So, thank you for understanding what I am saying. Question for you - are the people shocked because they think that is expensive or because it is a good price... everyone I have talked to is shocked that I would consider paying that much - they all thought you could buy a purebred Maltese for 800-1000.00. I find that most people have no idea the cost. 

Thanks again !
[/B][/QUOTE]

People are always shocked at her price! Yes, people tell me that same thing all the time. They think I'm crazy! It's a never ending battle. :smilie_tischkante: 

LOL I understood what you were saying because that's what I was looking fr when buying a new puppy. My late Imani, although she was champion sired, had many faults and I don't think she looked like a maltese. She had no pigment except for her dark nose, very low set tail, ect. I grew up watching dog shows and I always wanted a dog that looked like what that dog is supposed to look like. LOL 
I also understand what all the breeders are telling you. Breeders strive to produce show quality puppies. Or puppies that conform to the breed standard. That is the only reason people should be breeding dogs in the first place. Of course as the puppy grows things may develop or may not develop properly, or faults will occur and the breeder will allow that puppy to be sold as a pet quality. So technically, you are getting a show quality(looks wise) that they felt should not be shown, but for a pet price and limited registration.


----------



## Guest (Apr 23, 2009)

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Apr 23 2009, 01:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766776


> QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 23 2009, 12:34 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766749





> QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Apr 23 2009, 10:29 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766701





> I have to be honest as wrell that I didn't read most of the other post. I'm thinking you want a pet quality malt that looks like a show quality malt, right?
> 
> Most puppies you get from these reputable show malt breeders will end up looking like a show quality malt(if you don't cut their hair of course!) My Gigi was held back for show, but couldn't be shown because her bite went slightly off, too small to be bred, shy personality, so she would be sold as a pet. Neither of Gigi's parents were Champions, but Gigi's pedigree has mostly champions in it. Her breeder told us her parents did not like the show ring, but she felt they both were perfect examples of the breed standard. And I agreed because when I saw them, my jaw dropped, they were absolutly stunning! While we were at the breeder's house for some hours, she told everything, and I mean _everything _on how to take care of a maltese. We went over the health for about an hour alone! Our breeder also wasn't a show crazy person(all her malts went with handlers to be shown) LOL so she took the time, answered some questions, conversated, laughed, told us all our mistakes we made with our beloved malt pup Imani(RIP) and how to not make those mistakes again with Gigi, ect. It was great!
> Although Gigi has some minor faults, everywhere I take her, *everybody* always ask if she is a show dog. They also say they never have seen a maltese so small, they thought malts are supposed to be around 10 pounds! :shocked: Gigi is only about four pounds but perfect to the standard of the maltese. Sometimes I just think I should wear a shirt that has a picture of a maltese and the standard on my back, because if I had a penny for everytime somebody asked me this, I would be rich! :smilie_tischkante: There aren't many show breeders around this area, so many of the malts are from pet shops/BYBs. They never really see what a true maltese should look like. They ask were I got her from too, and I say a reputable show breeder. And then they say, oh that must be expensive. And then I tell them maltese pups that are PET quality males should range $1000-2000, for girls $2000-3000. They are shocked.[/B]


Hello and thank you for your reply as you are one of the only ones who are understanding what I am saying - YES... I want a pet quality with the show qualties - healthy breeding, nice coat, good pigment and ALL the breeders I talked too understood that statement and ALL said that their puppies are show quality but can't be shown for various reasons like the ones you listed. For some reason alot of people here think I was wanting a showdog - even if I had the money to buy a Showdog I couldn't because I don't show. Also as I said over and over why go to reputable show breeder and pay alot of money and not expect to get those qualities. So, thank you for understanding what I am saying. Question for you - are the people shocked because they think that is expensive or because it is a good price... everyone I have talked to is shocked that I would consider paying that much - they all thought you could buy a purebred Maltese for 800-1000.00. I find that most people have no idea the cost. 

Thanks again !
[/B][/QUOTE]

People are always shocked at her price! Yes, people tell me that same thing all the time. They think I'm crazy! It's a never ending battle. :smilie_tischkante: 

LOL I understood what you were saying because that's what I was looking fr when buying a new puppy. My late Imani, although she was champion sired, had many faults and I don't think she looked like a maltese. She had no pigment except for her dark nose, very low set tail, ect. I grew up watching dog shows and I always wanted a dog that looked like what that dog is supposed to look like. LOL 
I also understand what all the breeders are telling you. Breeders strive to produce show quality puppies. Or puppies that conform to the breed standard. That is the only reason people should be breeding dogs in the first place. Of course as the puppy grows things may develop or may not develop properly, or faults will occur and the breeder will allow that puppy to be sold as a pet quality. So technically, you are getting a show quality(looks wise) that they felt should not be shown, but for a pet price and limited registration.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Yes... I agree with everything you said - show quality - looks wise but for pet - I'm happy you understand where I'm coming from - there are quite a few who are faulting me for using the words ... Thanks again - your Gigi is darling - I can see why she causes a stir - she is a Showdog !!! Smiles !!!!


----------



## lottapaws (Mar 29, 2006)

I have read a number of the posts on here and I "may" have an answer to your question, but some on here would be better able to state if this could possibly be what is happening. I am wondering if when you have spoken with a breeder, for instance the one who said she had shown her female and garnered some points for her but she is too small to breed, etc., when you asked about the pups pedigree, it might be possible that this breeder became suspicious that you might be a back yard breeder trying to introduce a 'show line" into her breeding. I am assuming that athe breeder had already turned in the AKC papers and thus the pup had full registration. Even if the breeder required you to spay the pup, by having the full registration, an unethical breeder could claim one of her dog's pups were actually pups out of the puppy you purchased. Now, this is just a guess on my part, but show breeders must be just as careful with their puppies' new homes as the new families should be when looking for a reputable breeder. Sometimes people on both ends may "guess" wrong, but erring on the side of caution is always in a the puppy's best interest. I hope I've explained what I meant correctly, maybe someone can do a better job of explaining what I meant. Again, this is just one thought on why the breeder may have become evasive about your questioning. Breeders get a pretty good feel about callers, but no one gets it right every time. Maybe your conversations have sounded a bit like those from someone trying to underhandedly get a show dog name to use. If nothing else, they could tell people (advertise) that they have show lines even if they never sell puppies from that particular line, ie, use it as a way to make you think they have show quality dogs for sale but somehow never have any available from that particular female.

I am sorry for your trouble, but I hope you realize just how much the breeders want to find the 'best' homes for their babies just as you want to find the 'best' puppy for you. :wub:


----------



## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

QUOTE (lottapaws @ Apr 24 2009, 02:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767228


> I have read a number of the posts on here and I "may" have an answer to your question, but some on here would be better able to state if this could possibly be what is happening. I am wondering if when you have spoken with a breeder, for instance the one who said she had shown her female and garnered some points for her but she is too small to breed, etc., when you asked about the pups pedigree, it might be possible that this breeder became suspicious that you might be a back yard breeder trying to introduce a 'show line" into her breeding. I am assuming that athe breeder had already turned in the AKC papers and thus the pup had full registration. Even if the breeder required you to spay the pup, by having the full registration, an unethical breeder could claim one of her dog's pups were actually pups out of the puppy you purchased. Now, this is just a guess on my part, but show breeders must be just as careful with their puppies' new homes as the new families should be when looking for a reputable breeder. Sometimes people on both ends may "guess" wrong, but erring on the side of caution is always in a the puppy's best interest. I hope I've explained what I meant correctly, maybe someone can do a better job of explaining what I meant. Again, this is just one thought on why the breeder may have become evasive about your questioning. Breeders get a pretty good feel about callers, but no one gets it right every time. Maybe your conversations have sounded a bit like those from someone trying to underhandedly get a show dog name to use. If nothing else, they could tell people (advertise) that they have show lines even if they never sell puppies from that particular line, ie, use it as a way to make you think they have show quality dogs for sale but somehow never have any available from that particular female.
> 
> I am sorry for your trouble, but I hope you realize just how much the breeders want to find the 'best' homes for their babies just as you want to find the 'best' puppy for you. :wub:[/B]


Most breeders register their litter with the AKC but give the papers to the new owners as limited registration there is a bubble that is blacked out. If they are not fixed prior to going to their new home the breeder usually holds back the papers until proof from the vet is given to the breeder. Those BYB that sell dogs without papers are usually the ones that never provide proof to the original breeder so then cannot register the parents of the pup. So I don't think that is the case with the OP.


----------



## Guest (Apr 24, 2009)

QUOTE (lottapaws @ Apr 24 2009, 02:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767228


> I have read a number of the posts on here and I "may" have an answer to your question, but some on here would be better able to state if this could possibly be what is happening. I am wondering if when you have spoken with a breeder, for instance the one who said she had shown her female and garnered some points for her but she is too small to breed, etc., when you asked about the pups pedigree, it might be possible that this breeder became suspicious that you might be a back yard breeder trying to introduce a 'show line" into her breeding. I am assuming that athe breeder had already turned in the AKC papers and thus the pup had full registration. Even if the breeder required you to spay the pup, by having the full registration, an unethical breeder could claim one of her dog's pups were actually pups out of the puppy you purchased. Now, this is just a guess on my part, but show breeders must be just as careful with their puppies' new homes as the new families should be when looking for a reputable breeder. Sometimes people on both ends may "guess" wrong, but erring on the side of caution is always in a the puppy's best interest. I hope I've explained what I meant correctly, maybe someone can do a better job of explaining what I meant. Again, this is just one thought on why the breeder may have become evasive about your questioning. Breeders get a pretty good feel about callers, but no one gets it right every time. Maybe your conversations have sounded a bit like those from someone trying to underhandedly get a show dog name to use. If nothing else, they could tell people (advertise) that they have show lines even if they never sell puppies from that particular line, ie, use it as a way to make you think they have show quality dogs for sale but somehow never have any available from that particular female.
> 
> I am sorry for your trouble, but I hope you realize just how much the breeders want to find the 'best' homes for their babies just as you want to find the 'best' puppy for you. :wub:[/B]


Hi - thanks for your thoughts - I do understand what you are saying - to make a long story short - I contacted her to inquire if she had puppies for sale - during our conversation - she determined by my voice and my home and life that she liked me - I'm a recent empty nester and do not work outside the home - so she said " she had a one year old female showdog that she had shown but she was going to be too small to breed so she couldn't keep her afterall - she emphasized how she would not let her go without being spayed first - and the dog was being spayed that week by her before she let it go ....so, it was her suggestion - not mine - I didn't even know she had that dog for sale - so I don't think she thought I was a BYB or else she wouldn't have offered the dog to me. Especially since she went on and on at how much she loved her and would miss her terribly - I do feel she was trying to find the right person for her. When I asked what the background was on the dog and by the way - it's more because I am curious and I like to learn new things and this is alll new to me and I'm trying to learn about pedigrees and so forth - I find it interesting - so when I asked - she snapped at me "why do you need to know that - you are not showing or breeding her - what difference does it make " and I told her I was just trying to learn all I could about champion Maltese's and names and bloodlines - that I was just curious about all of it - but she never answered me - so I decided not to go with her.


----------



## Guest (Apr 24, 2009)

QUOTE (lottapaws @ Apr 24 2009, 02:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767228


> I have read a number of the posts on here and I "may" have an answer to your question, but some on here would be better able to state if this could possibly be what is happening. I am wondering if when you have spoken with a breeder, for instance the one who said she had shown her female and garnered some points for her but she is too small to breed, etc., when you asked about the pups pedigree, it might be possible that this breeder became suspicious that you might be a back yard breeder trying to introduce a 'show line" into her breeding. I am assuming that athe breeder had already turned in the AKC papers and thus the pup had full registration. Even if the breeder required you to spay the pup, by having the full registration, an unethical breeder could claim one of her dog's pups were actually pups out of the puppy you purchased. Now, this is just a guess on my part, but show breeders must be just as careful with their puppies' new homes as the new families should be when looking for a reputable breeder. Sometimes people on both ends may "guess" wrong, but erring on the side of caution is always in a the puppy's best interest. I hope I've explained what I meant correctly, maybe someone can do a better job of explaining what I meant. Again, this is just one thought on why the breeder may have become evasive about your questioning. Breeders get a pretty good feel about callers, but no one gets it right every time. Maybe your conversations have sounded a bit like those from someone trying to underhandedly get a show dog name to use. If nothing else, they could tell people (advertise) that they have show lines even if they never sell puppies from that particular line, ie, use it as a way to make you think they have show quality dogs for sale but somehow never have any available from that particular female.
> 
> I am sorry for your trouble, but I hope you realize just how much the breeders want to find the 'best' homes for their babies just as you want to find the 'best' puppy for you. :wub:[/B]


Oh one more thing .... I know there are some breeders who are picky about who buys there puppies but I can tell you a few of the reputable ones NEVER asked me a question about myself - they simply said they had what I was looking for and gave me the price .... I was surprised because on their website they said they like to get to know where the puppy is going but they didn't ask....now... that may be because they were really busy and just didn't thave the time.


----------



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 24 2009, 03:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767257


> QUOTE (lottapaws @ Apr 24 2009, 02:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767228





> I have read a number of the posts on here and I "may" have an answer to your question, but some on here would be better able to state if this could possibly be what is happening. I am wondering if when you have spoken with a breeder, for instance the one who said she had shown her female and garnered some points for her but she is too small to breed, etc., when you asked about the pups pedigree, it might be possible that this breeder became suspicious that you might be a back yard breeder trying to introduce a 'show line" into her breeding. I am assuming that athe breeder had already turned in the AKC papers and thus the pup had full registration. Even if the breeder required you to spay the pup, by having the full registration, an unethical breeder could claim one of her dog's pups were actually pups out of the puppy you purchased. Now, this is just a guess on my part, but show breeders must be just as careful with their puppies' new homes as the new families should be when looking for a reputable breeder. Sometimes people on both ends may "guess" wrong, but erring on the side of caution is always in a the puppy's best interest. I hope I've explained what I meant correctly, maybe someone can do a better job of explaining what I meant. Again, this is just one thought on why the breeder may have become evasive about your questioning. Breeders get a pretty good feel about callers, but no one gets it right every time. Maybe your conversations have sounded a bit like those from someone trying to underhandedly get a show dog name to use. If nothing else, they could tell people (advertise) that they have show lines even if they never sell puppies from that particular line, ie, use it as a way to make you think they have show quality dogs for sale but somehow never have any available from that particular female.
> 
> I am sorry for your trouble, but I hope you realize just how much the breeders want to find the 'best' homes for their babies just as you want to find the 'best' puppy for you. :wub:[/B]


Oh one more thing .... I know there are some breeders who are picky about who buys there puppies but I can tell you a few of the reputable ones NEVER asked me a question about myself - they simply said they had what I was looking for and gave me the price .... I was surprised because on their website they said they like to get to know where the puppy is going but they didn't ask....now... that may be because they were really busy and just didn't thave the time.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Well, just because they gave you a price doesn't mean they would sell her to you without further questioning. Once they know you are serious perhaps they would then ask the questions you are waiting for. They probably have a ton of people calling to ask prices. I'm sure they don't have the time to question everyone in detail before giving a price.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Apr 24 2009, 04:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767322


> QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 24 2009, 03:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767257





> QUOTE (lottapaws @ Apr 24 2009, 02:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767228





> I have read a number of the posts on here and I "may" have an answer to your question, but some on here would be better able to state if this could possibly be what is happening. I am wondering if when you have spoken with a breeder, for instance the one who said she had shown her female and garnered some points for her but she is too small to breed, etc., when you asked about the pups pedigree, it might be possible that this breeder became suspicious that you might be a back yard breeder trying to introduce a 'show line" into her breeding. I am assuming that athe breeder had already turned in the AKC papers and thus the pup had full registration. Even if the breeder required you to spay the pup, by having the full registration, an unethical breeder could claim one of her dog's pups were actually pups out of the puppy you purchased. Now, this is just a guess on my part, but show breeders must be just as careful with their puppies' new homes as the new families should be when looking for a reputable breeder. Sometimes people on both ends may "guess" wrong, but erring on the side of caution is always in a the puppy's best interest. I hope I've explained what I meant correctly, maybe someone can do a better job of explaining what I meant. Again, this is just one thought on why the breeder may have become evasive about your questioning. Breeders get a pretty good feel about callers, but no one gets it right every time. Maybe your conversations have sounded a bit like those from someone trying to underhandedly get a show dog name to use. If nothing else, they could tell people (advertise) that they have show lines even if they never sell puppies from that particular line, ie, use it as a way to make you think they have show quality dogs for sale but somehow never have any available from that particular female.
> 
> I am sorry for your trouble, but I hope you realize just how much the breeders want to find the 'best' homes for their babies just as you want to find the 'best' puppy for you. :wub:[/B]


Oh one more thing .... I know there are some breeders who are picky about who buys there puppies but I can tell you a few of the reputable ones NEVER asked me a question about myself - they simply said they had what I was looking for and gave me the price .... I was surprised because on their website they said they like to get to know where the puppy is going but they didn't ask....now... that may be because they were really busy and just didn't thave the time.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Well, just because they gave you a price doesn't mean they would sell her to you without further questioning. Once they know you are serious perhaps they would then ask the questions you are waiting for. They probably have a ton of people calling to ask prices. I'm sure they don't have the time to question everyone in detail before giving a price.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I agree. Show breeders are very busy people. I'm sure giving the price upfront is the first step in screening buyers as many people are not prepared for the high price of a well bred Maltese. Why waste your time interviewing someone who is not prepared to pay the price?

As I have said several times in this thread, I suspect something that was said in the first phone conversation made this breeder decide you weren't right for one of her puppies. Sometimes it's the other way around. It's the potential buyer who just doesn't click with a breeder during the initial contact and moves on.


----------



## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

When I first started contacting breeders very few wanted to go back and forth on email, they wanted a phone call! One email even just gave her phone # and said, call me to discuss or something along those lines.

I did have one breeder email me pics of a couple puppies along with pics of the sire/dam, although this was after a conversation on the phone.

I was asked only a few questions over the phone and was invited to their house. When I visited the breeder we talked for about an hour and she was very open with me. I asked who the sire/dam were - she gave me a straight answer (I met mom). Not once was she even remotely evasive. I don't think a reputable show breeder has any reason to be evasive.

Personally if someone was asking $3500 for a pet puppy they should hand me that info as soon as I ask, especially since they seem to be very proud of them. If she was willing to let you buy(???) her 1 year old she obviously wasn't worried about you as a person. Also, from what I've seen I think they typically don't charge full price for 'retired' show dogs, generally the cost of spay/dental (if needed).

I don't care how highly recommended someone comes, if they aren't willing to answer simple questions about the parents of the puppies I would go somewhere else.

As for you question "how can a breeder who has raised and loved and shown the dog - sell the dog"...
I know we've had other conversations about this here. Good breeders can't keep every single dog they've shown and/or bred - it just isn't possible. It is a sad part of breeding, but they have to let their pups go at some point. If they didn't they wouldn't be able to continue their lines and then where would we be? 

I'm sorry you had a difficult time, but you have a sweet little girl with you now and you're here, so the next time you do look, you'll be able to get even more insight!


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 24 2009, 01:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767253


> QUOTE (lottapaws @ Apr 24 2009, 02:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767228





> I have read a number of the posts on here and I "may" have an answer to your question, but some on here would be better able to state if this could possibly be what is happening. I am wondering if when you have spoken with a breeder, for instance the one who said she had shown her female and garnered some points for her but she is too small to breed, etc., when you asked about the pups pedigree, it might be possible that this breeder became suspicious that you might be a back yard breeder trying to introduce a 'show line" into her breeding. I am assuming that athe breeder had already turned in the AKC papers and thus the pup had full registration. Even if the breeder required you to spay the pup, by having the full registration, an unethical breeder could claim one of her dog's pups were actually pups out of the puppy you purchased. Now, this is just a guess on my part, but show breeders must be just as careful with their puppies' new homes as the new families should be when looking for a reputable breeder. Sometimes people on both ends may "guess" wrong, but erring on the side of caution is always in a the puppy's best interest. I hope I've explained what I meant correctly, maybe someone can do a better job of explaining what I meant. Again, this is just one thought on why the breeder may have become evasive about your questioning. Breeders get a pretty good feel about callers, but no one gets it right every time. Maybe your conversations have sounded a bit like those from someone trying to underhandedly get a show dog name to use. If nothing else, they could tell people (advertise) that they have show lines even if they never sell puppies from that particular line, ie, use it as a way to make you think they have show quality dogs for sale but somehow never have any available from that particular female.
> 
> I am sorry for your trouble, but I hope you realize just how much the breeders want to find the 'best' homes for their babies just as you want to find the 'best' puppy for you. :wub:[/B]


Hi - thanks for your thoughts - I do understand what you are saying - to make a long story short - I contacted her to inquire if she had puppies for sale - during our conversation - she determined by my voice and my home and life that she liked me - I'm a recent empty nester and do not work outside the home - so she said " she had a one year old female showdog that she had shown but she was going to be too small to breed so she couldn't keep her afterall - she emphasized how she would not let her go without being spayed first - and the dog was being spayed that week by her before she let it go ....so, it was her suggestion - not mine - I didn't even know she had that dog for sale - so I don't think she thought I was a BYB or else she wouldn't have offered the dog to me. Especially since she went on and on at how much she loved her and would miss her terribly - I do feel she was trying to find the right person for her. When I asked what the background was on the dog and by the way - it's more because I am curious and I like to learn new things and this is alll new to me and I'm trying to learn about pedigrees and so forth - I find it interesting - so when I asked - she snapped at me "why do you need to know that - you are not showing or breeding her - what difference does it make " and I told her I was just trying to learn all I could about champion Maltese's and names and bloodlines - that I was just curious about all of it - but she never answered me - so I decided not to go with her.
[/B][/QUOTE]

One thing that's important to know is anyone can show a dog that's AKC registered and not yet spayed or neutered. To call it a show dog is not appropriate if it's not really winning or finished to it's championship. I would guess you are lucky to be away from that breeder and move on to someone who cares to enlighten anyone who wants to know about pedigrees.


----------



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 24 2009, 02:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767253


> QUOTE (lottapaws @ Apr 24 2009, 02:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767228





> I have read a number of the posts on here and I "may" have an answer to your question, but some on here would be better able to state if this could possibly be what is happening. I am wondering if when you have spoken with a breeder, for instance the one who said she had shown her female and garnered some points for her but she is too small to breed, etc., when you asked about the pups pedigree, it might be possible that this breeder became suspicious that you might be a back yard breeder trying to introduce a 'show line" into her breeding. I am assuming that athe breeder had already turned in the AKC papers and thus the pup had full registration. Even if the breeder required you to spay the pup, by having the full registration, an unethical breeder could claim one of her dog's pups were actually pups out of the puppy you purchased. Now, this is just a guess on my part, but show breeders must be just as careful with their puppies' new homes as the new families should be when looking for a reputable breeder. Sometimes people on both ends may "guess" wrong, but erring on the side of caution is always in a the puppy's best interest. I hope I've explained what I meant correctly, maybe someone can do a better job of explaining what I meant. Again, this is just one thought on why the breeder may have become evasive about your questioning. Breeders get a pretty good feel about callers, but no one gets it right every time. Maybe your conversations have sounded a bit like those from someone trying to underhandedly get a show dog name to use. If nothing else, they could tell people (advertise) that they have show lines even if they never sell puppies from that particular line, ie, use it as a way to make you think they have show quality dogs for sale but somehow never have any available from that particular female.
> 
> I am sorry for your trouble, but I hope you realize just how much the breeders want to find the 'best' homes for their babies just as you want to find the 'best' puppy for you. :wub:[/B]


Hi - thanks for your thoughts - I do understand what you are saying - to make a long story short - I contacted her to inquire if she had puppies for sale - during our conversation - she determined by my voice and my home and life that she liked me - I'm a recent empty nester and do not work outside the home - so she said " she had a one year old female showdog that she had shown but she was going to be too small to breed so she couldn't keep her afterall - she emphasized how she would not let her go without being spayed first - and the dog was being spayed that week by her before she let it go ....so, it was her suggestion - not mine - I didn't even know she had that dog for sale - so I don't think she thought I was a BYB or else she wouldn't have offered the dog to me. Especially since she went on and on at how much she loved her and would miss her terribly - I do feel she was trying to find the right person for her. When I asked what the background was on the dog and by the way - it's more because I am curious and I like to learn new things and this is alll new to me and I'm trying to learn about pedigrees and so forth - I find it interesting - so when I asked - she snapped at me "why do you need to know that - you are not showing or breeding her - what difference does it make " and I told her I was just trying to learn all I could about champion Maltese's and names and bloodlines - that I was just curious about all of it - but she never answered me - so I decided not to go with her.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Oh, gosh, I had gottten the impression you were a young girl rather than an empty nester since your mother had supposedly joined here specifically to help you find a puppy. 

So, you didn't like that breeder. So move on. I'm not sure why you are hashing it out here. I hope it is not to make mischief.


----------



## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 24 2009, 02:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767253


> QUOTE (lottapaws @ Apr 24 2009, 02:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767228





> I have read a number of the posts on here and I "may" have an answer to your question, but some on here would be better able to state if this could possibly be what is happening. I am wondering if when you have spoken with a breeder, for instance the one who said she had shown her female and garnered some points for her but she is too small to breed, etc., when you asked about the pups pedigree, it might be possible that this breeder became suspicious that you might be a back yard breeder trying to introduce a 'show line" into her breeding. I am assuming that athe breeder had already turned in the AKC papers and thus the pup had full registration. Even if the breeder required you to spay the pup, by having the full registration, an unethical breeder could claim one of her dog's pups were actually pups out of the puppy you purchased. Now, this is just a guess on my part, but show breeders must be just as careful with their puppies' new homes as the new families should be when looking for a reputable breeder. Sometimes people on both ends may "guess" wrong, but erring on the side of caution is always in a the puppy's best interest. I hope I've explained what I meant correctly, maybe someone can do a better job of explaining what I meant. Again, this is just one thought on why the breeder may have become evasive about your questioning. Breeders get a pretty good feel about callers, but no one gets it right every time. Maybe your conversations have sounded a bit like those from someone trying to underhandedly get a show dog name to use. If nothing else, they could tell people (advertise) that they have show lines even if they never sell puppies from that particular line, ie, use it as a way to make you think they have show quality dogs for sale but somehow never have any available from that particular female.
> 
> I am sorry for your trouble, but I hope you realize just how much the breeders want to find the 'best' homes for their babies just as you want to find the 'best' puppy for you. :wub:[/B]


Hi - thanks for your thoughts - I do understand what you are saying - to make a long story short - I contacted her to inquire if she had puppies for sale - during our conversation - she determined by my voice and my home and life that she liked me - I'm a recent empty nester and do not work outside the home - so she said " she had a one year old female showdog that she had shown but she was going to be too small to breed so she couldn't keep her afterall - she emphasized how she would not let her go without being spayed first - and the dog was being spayed that week by her before she let it go ....so, it was her suggestion - not mine - I didn't even know she had that dog for sale - so I don't think she thought I was a BYB or else she wouldn't have offered the dog to me. Especially since she went on and on at how much she loved her and would miss her terribly - I do feel she was trying to find the right person for her. When I asked what the background was on the dog and by the way - it's more because I am curious and I like to learn new things and this is alll new to me and I'm trying to learn about pedigrees and so forth - I find it interesting - so when I asked - she snapped at me "why do you need to know that - you are not showing or breeding her - what difference does it make " and I told her I was just trying to learn all I could about champion Maltese's and names and bloodlines - that I was just curious about all of it - but she never answered me - so I decided not to go with her.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I am so happy that you did not go with that person. No reputable breeder would have behaved that way only greeders do. It sounds like she had something to hid.


----------



## Guest (Apr 25, 2009)

QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Apr 24 2009, 04:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767322


> QUOTE (BellarinaMom @ Apr 24 2009, 03:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767257





> QUOTE (lottapaws @ Apr 24 2009, 02:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=767228





> I have read a number of the posts on here and I "may" have an answer to your question, but some on here would be better able to state if this could possibly be what is happening. I am wondering if when you have spoken with a breeder, for instance the one who said she had shown her female and garnered some points for her but she is too small to breed, etc., when you asked about the pups pedigree, it might be possible that this breeder became suspicious that you might be a back yard breeder trying to introduce a 'show line" into her breeding. I am assuming that athe breeder had already turned in the AKC papers and thus the pup had full registration. Even if the breeder required you to spay the pup, by having the full registration, an unethical breeder could claim one of her dog's pups were actually pups out of the puppy you purchased. Now, this is just a guess on my part, but show breeders must be just as careful with their puppies' new homes as the new families should be when looking for a reputable breeder. Sometimes people on both ends may "guess" wrong, but erring on the side of caution is always in a the puppy's best interest. I hope I've explained what I meant correctly, maybe someone can do a better job of explaining what I meant. Again, this is just one thought on why the breeder may have become evasive about your questioning. Breeders get a pretty good feel about callers, but no one gets it right every time. Maybe your conversations have sounded a bit like those from someone trying to underhandedly get a show dog name to use. If nothing else, they could tell people (advertise) that they have show lines even if they never sell puppies from that particular line, ie, use it as a way to make you think they have show quality dogs for sale but somehow never have any available from that particular female.
> 
> I am sorry for your trouble, but I hope you realize just how much the breeders want to find the 'best' homes for their babies just as you want to find the 'best' puppy for you. :wub:[/B]


Oh one more thing .... I know there are some breeders who are picky about who buys there puppies but I can tell you a few of the reputable ones NEVER asked me a question about myself - they simply said they had what I was looking for and gave me the price .... I was surprised because on their website they said they like to get to know where the puppy is going but they didn't ask....now... that may be because they were really busy and just didn't thave the time.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Well, just because they gave you a price doesn't mean they would sell her to you without further questioning. Once they know you are serious perhaps they would then ask the questions you are waiting for. They probably have a ton of people calling to ask prices. I'm sure they don't have the time to question everyone in detail before giving a price.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Well - if I asked for the name and address to send the money for the dog and they gave me the name and address to mail the money for the dog - wouldn't you call it a DEAL !!!! The deal was on until I said by the way.... who are the parents and do you have a picture................... duh !!!! shame on me for being so excited and naive that they had a dog that I didn't ask that first before asking where do I sign and send the money ......... my fault all the way........


----------

