# Prissy's Issue



## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

Ok most of you know Prissy delivered two pups this sat morning. We lost the girl Pup on Mon night. Through out the pregnancy and labor I thought there was a third pup. It can be hard to tell with the bitch is done delievering pups. The reproductive system gets so swollen it can often feel like a pup. I waited all night and a third pup never came. I assumed it was swelling. Mom said Prissy has had a bit of diareha this weekend. This is not totaly uncommon during pregnancy and whelping. The bitches hormones are all out of wack and this can give them tummy problems. As long as it doesnt become excessive and they are keeping hydrated it normally passes. I have been checking her temp to make sure she doesnt get and infection. Prissys temp is normal. I felt her belly checking for mlk productin as sure enough I still feel a hard mass. There is NO way this is swelling. There is a pup left. When I contacted the ER vet she told me that since she isnt showing signs of distress or infection. She should be fine until I can get her in in the morning. They will have to do x rays.

I dont know what to do I'm soooo strapped for $$$. I just got a job and it doesnt pay what I need to and I'm SOOOO behind on my current bills as is. I pray that they allow me to do a payment plan or something. 

I also wonder about the stud we used. Prissy has never had problems before. I dont want to be rude but I wonder if he is to blame. Now I have to pay her 300 dollars for one puppy and mounds of vet bills. Thanks Lady. I dont know what to do should I even attempt to get some of my money back or what do yall think?

Sorry so long. 

Knowing Prissy might be in danger meand another sleepless night for me.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)

First of all, I am sorry Prissy is in this situation, but let's remember you were the one who put her in this situation! 

I feel you have no right to complain about money issues--again, you did this to her!

I have read many of your posts regarding her pregnancy, birth and post pregnancy complications and I sit here and shake my head.

If I recall correctly, Prissy was a few days away from labor and you were upset that her going into labor was going to mess up your weekend plans???

Now, after all this you are blaming the owner of the stud? Sounds to me like you are looking for a scapegoat.

And lastly, you are upset because you are going to have another sleepless night? *You did this to her!* I feel you are in no place to be looking for pity. Prissy is the one who needs it.


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Nichole_@Jul 6 2005, 01:45 AM
> *First of all, I am sorry Prissy is in this situation, but let's remember you were the one who put her in this situation!
> 
> I feel you have no right to complain about money issues--again, you did this to her!
> ...


[/QUOTE]
OMG!! Ok First I believe you have no right to judge me since you apparently are very miss informed. Perhaps you do not know that Prissy is a Certified Therapy dog. She is also part of a breeding program of which has produce amazing dogs for the hearing impaired as well as therapy dogs. I have bred her 3 previous times and she has now delivered 13 healthy puppies. 

No I'm Not BYB that has several Dogs that I breed for money. Prissy is the only dog I breed. 

about the "out of town" comment I was just teasing how it never fails the females always wait for the worst time. Not that is was any of your business but I had to attend my Best Friends Funeral. 

About "Blaming the stud" My Boyfriend and I own a Min Pin named Shiner. Shiner is of show quality and well on his way to being a titled Ob dog. We have been approached by several Breeders from all over the country wishing to include him in there breeding program. He has contributed to two litters of pups. I know the STUD business. I would never wish to "blame" the Stud. I'm sorry if I came off as doing that. However I can’t help but wonder. Due to Prissy’s history of healthy pups and always using the same stud and never had a problem. It just makes me a little concerned that this different stud may have something to do with the problems.

"Money Issues" You have no clue what I'm talking about. I'm a Grad student trying to pay my own way through college. I'm just like most people struggling to get by. I'm not trying to complain. I just wanted people’s opinions on how many vets offer payment options? 

Prissy is my everything. You have no right to imply otherwise. I believe most of the "Active" posters have seen my love for Prissy and all animals in general. 

I'm very glad that this is such a great forum that we have no need for moderators and I intend to do my part to help keep it that way. Believe me when I say this post I had to calm down before replying. I'm just disturbed at the way people can judge and criticize people with out even knowing them. This is a forum to express our thoughts; Personal attacks are not necessary. If you don’t like it Ignore it.

This is the exact reason why I waited so long to tell anyone on this forum about Prissy being bred for service dog purposes. I'm sorry to ramble I'm just tired of being thought of as a young Kid who breeds her dog for $

Off my soap box.


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

im sorry to hear about the little girl pass away, i dont know anything about breeding but i do know that anything can happen during breeding and that you are primarily responsible for the results since it was your decision for everything

i hope the third puppy is fine and best luck!







i hope Prissy isnt in a lot of pain


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Sarah, 

First, I am so sorry for that harsh reply you got from a poster earlier. You did not need that. 

I am glad that you have trusted us enough throughout this entire experience to share your story with us. I hope that that personal attack will not keep you from continuing to be an active participant here.

And most importantly, I am so sorry that things are not going as planned and I hope and pray that that Prissy (and you ) will be OK.

I don't think I would ask for any money from the stud's owner. It seems like he did what he was supposed to, etc. and unless he passed on a disease or something I really don't see any point in contacting the owner.

You seem like such a mature and resourceful young lady and I imagine you want to handle this by yourself, but would it be possible to ask your boyfriend or mother for a little financial help in the form of a loan if the vet needs payment right away?

Again, I hope and pray that Prissy will be OK.









Please keep us posted. You will definitely be in my thoughts today.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

No, I don't believe it would be appropriate to blame the stud dog. This is a common complication to pregnancy. You need to get her in for an x-ray NOW and a possible section if there is a dead fetus in there. Breeding a dog always risks the bitch's life. It is a huge risk to take and, IMO, you need to act now. Breeding is extremely expensive. No offense, but if you're balking at the price of x-rays, has the service dog organization you work with taken financial responsibility for the outcome of the pup? If not you really ought to look into it now. A reputable, responsible breeder takes responsibility for every pup they produce for the life of that dog. If you produce a problem, you have to be prepared to pay for it (liver shunt surgery runs up to $3000). 

I have worked with a few breeders who have stud dogs used by Guiding Eyes for the Blind. All of their bitches that live in private homes to be bred are completely financed by Guiding Eyes as is every puppy they place with a puppy raiser family. I would assume if you are working with a reputable assistance dog organization and breeding under their direction, they would be financially responsible for the litter.


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

I am so sorry to hear about Prissy and her pup's. I hope that Prissy and the remaining pup will make it through this. 

When I was first considering a malt I had a "dream" of getting a female and breeding her. I did alot of research into it and quickly changed my mind about breeding. As JMM has said a reputable breeder is responsible for that puppy for life and the risk of complications for th Mom is huge. I also discovered that breeding is no way to make money, the potential cost can be far more than the sale of the puppies. 

It sounds like you have had some nice big healthy litters in the past and 13 puppies in 3 previous litters are unusual. The breeders I have spoken to have told me that litters are generally much smaller than that and that it is not at all unusual to lose a puppy or two. In fact the first puppy I put a deposit on died before she was a week old. 

I have to agree with the other posters that ou are still obligated to pay the stud fee. If this is a person you know, they may give you a break especially if the remaining puppy doesn't make it. 

It may be time to give Prissy a rest, you didn't say how long you have waited between litters, somewhere here I read the guidelines for age and how often but I can't remember what they are. 

My Vet has been good about setting up a payment plan when I've had unexpected emergencies, hopefully yours will understand and help you out. I hope you get some good news and that Mom and pup are well.


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

Poor Prissie,please keep us posted , Im sure all will be fine


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Jul 6 2005, 05:58 AM
> *No, I don't believe it would be appropriate to blame the stud dog. This is a common complication to pregnancy. You need to get her in for an x-ray NOW and a possible section if there is a dead fetus in there. Breeding a dog always risks the bitch's life. It is a huge risk to take and, IMO, you need to act now. Breeding is extremely expensive. No offense, but if you're balking at the price of x-rays, has the service dog organization you work with taken financial responsibility for the outcome of the pup? If not you really ought to look into it now. A reputable, responsible breeder takes responsibility for every pup they produce for the life of that dog. If you produce a problem, you have to be prepared to pay for it (liver shunt surgery runs up to $3000).
> 
> I have worked with a few breeders who have stud dogs used by Guiding Eyes for the Blind. All of their bitches that live in private homes to be bred are completely financed by Guiding Eyes as is every puppy they place with a puppy raiser family. I would assume if you are working with a reputable assistance dog organization and breeding under their direction, they would be financially responsible for the litter.  No vet I know would say just wait to the morning if you think there is a puppy stuck 3 days after the bitch welped.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I agree with JMM.  In previous posts you said they(the therapy group) pay the fee's and what not so why now do you owe the stud fee.  Also, the therapy dogs that I have known that have been bred have to welp at the center and stay there until the pups are placed, so if something like this happens then there is a vet available.  I am sorry but it all sounds a lil funny. No vet I know would say just wait to the morning if you think there is a puppy stuck 3 days after the bitch welped.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

I'm so sorry to hear about the complications with Prissy. I pray that everything is take care of and your little girl is back in perfect health.







I know how it is with money... I have issues myself. Honestly... there are some people out there that will NEVER be head of their money issues no matter how hard they try... I think i might be one of those people. I do know that I dont let my money issues rule EVERYTHING i do... or I wouldnt have gotten Kodie..









PS-- I'm also starting a business and i'm also NOT letting my money issues stop me from doing what i wanna do!







I always try to find a way to make it through...


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

So sorry to hear about Prissy.







Big hugs to you!








How is the other pup doing? The boy pup?

I do wonder why the vet is waiting to see about the third pup.







I don't know much about breeding/whelping...but that would FREAK me out! 
So does that ensure that she will now have to have a c-section to remove it? Is it for sure that the third pup is dead? Again, I am very ignorant about breeding...so just wondering lots of things.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Did Prissy have an ultrasound during her pregnancy? I was under the impression that most good Maltese breeders do this as a matter of routine since the breed has a high percentage of c-sections. 

If you had one done, you would know how many pups Prissy carried and whether there was a 3rd fetus retained.

As far as the money goes, I'd say that you were probably pretty lucky for Prissy's first 3 pregnancies since they were easy and inexpensive with all puppies surviving. This last one doesn't sound abnormal for a Maltese. Most articles I have read warn that you can lose money on breeding if there are complications and only one (or no) puppies survive.

I'm glad this will be her last litter.


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## elliesmomie (Apr 9, 2005)

i am so sorry to hear that prissy is having more complications. i know how much she means to you and am also sorry that anyone on this forum is questioning that. you are doing a wonderful thing by breeding her not for money, but to help people in need. i'm sure most of us know that prissy is very special to you.

i hope that everything works out and that if there is a third puppy that it is healthy. i'll be thinking good thoughts for you! maybe it will be healthy and it will be a little girl and you can keep her!! ...think positive thoughts


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## AJ (Jun 5, 2005)

I am soo sorry about everything and I hope all turns out well.







Best of wishes for you and Prissy!


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by mee_@Jul 6 2005, 04:56 AM
> *im sorry to hear about the little girl pass away, i dont know anything about breeding but i do know that anything can happen during breeding and that you are primarily responsible for the results since it was your decision for everything
> 
> i hope the third puppy is fine and best luck!
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your concern. I am taking responsibility and getting prissy taken car is my number one concern above everything else. I know how common pregnancy isssues can occur in these little guys. I have been so lucky to have had problem free litters in the past. Prissy is in no pain at all she acts 100% normal. Believe me if she was in pain I would take care of the problem ASAP no matter what the cost. 

Prissy got checked out this morning and our vet gave her a rub down didnt feel anything gave her a quick ultrasound (no charge) and gave us some antibiotics just in case(no charge) the whole visit was 30 bucks. Prissy and the pup are great


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by sassy14830+Jul 6 2005, 12:41 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for your concern. I am taking responsibility and getting prissy taken car is my number one concern above everything else. I know how common pregnancy isssues can occur in these little guys. I have been so lucky to have had problem free litters in the past. Prissy is in no pain at all she acts 100% normal. Believe me if she was in pain I would take care of the problem ASAP no matter what the cost. 

Prissy got checked out this morning and our vet gave her a rub down didnt feel anything gave her a quick ultrasound (no charge) and gave us some antibiotics just in case(no charge) the whole visit was 30 bucks. Prissy and the pup are great
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78642
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So there's not another pup?


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom_@Jul 6 2005, 05:56 AM
> *Sarah,
> 
> First, I am so sorry for that harsh reply you got from a poster earlier. You did not need that.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I did trust the wonderful people on here. All though after reading some of these post I am not going to share as much people can be very hurtful with out knowing of meaning to. Prissy is doing fab as well as the boy pup.
I called the stud owner to tell her about the puppies. She truly was sorry and gave be a longer time to pay the remaining stud fee. 

My mother and my bf are the only reason why I'm still in school and have a car. My mom has taken care of everything the past few months when things have been hard. I know I can ask them if I need to I just hate it. I'm sure everyone can relate I'm trying to be independent and asking for help is no fun.

Prissy is doing wonderful and got checked out and cleared for a small fee.

thank you so much for not questioning my motives and being always supportive SM needs more people like you.


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Jul 6 2005, 05:58 AM
> *No, I don't believe it would be appropriate to blame the stud dog. This is a common complication to pregnancy. You need to get her in for an x-ray NOW and a possible section if there is a dead fetus in there. Breeding a dog always risks the bitch's life. It is a huge risk to take and, IMO, you need to act now. Breeding is extremely expensive. No offense, but if you're balking at the price of x-rays, has the service dog organization you work with taken financial responsibility for the outcome of the pup? If not you really ought to look into it now. A reputable, responsible breeder takes responsibility for every pup they produce for the life of that dog. If you produce a problem, you have to be prepared to pay for it (liver shunt surgery runs up to $3000).
> 
> I have worked with a few breeders who have stud dogs used by Guiding Eyes for the Blind. All of their bitches that live in private homes to be bred are completely financed by Guiding Eyes as is every puppy they place with a puppy raiser family. I would assume if you are working with a reputable assistance dog organization and breeding under their direction, they would be financially responsible for the litter.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78510*


[/QUOTE]

First I would like to say I admire your advice you have given you are soooo helpful to many people on SM.







Again I will say Never is any way did I intend to "blame" the stud. As I have stated in previous post luvnpaws is a VERY small organization. I mean come on Lubbock is small and I found it odd that there was such an organization there. They pay for a part (around 60%)of all fees vet stud ect... Guiding eyes for the blind is a HUGE organization that is all over the world. luvnpaws is totally non profit and is only able to pay for the part that do pay for with the help of donations.







I may be reading this wrong but from this post I feel that you think I'm not a goof breeder and the the organization is bad as well. I assure you I'm very knowlodgable in the breeding business and I would not be involved in any organization that is "shady"

I'm glad everyone is concerned with the well being of prissy. BTW her and her pup are doing great. 









thank you for your advice


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by puppymom_@Jul 6 2005, 06:42 AM
> *I am so sorry to hear about Prissy and her pup's.  I hope that Prissy and the remaining pup will make it through this.
> 
> When I was first considering a malt I had a "dream" of getting a female and breeding her.  I did alot of research into it and quickly changed my mind about breeding.  As JMM has said a reputable breeder is responsible for that puppy for life and the risk of complications for th Mom is huge.  I also discovered that breeding is no way to make money,  the potential cost can be far more than the sale of the puppies.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Everyone was shocked at Prissys ablilty to carry and raise large litters.







She was a litter of 6. The Stud fee is almost totally paid for. There is a small amount remaining to the owner for the delivery of live pups. Its kind of complicated if you are not familar with the stud aspect of breeding. The studs owner is giving me more time to come up with the cash which is great.







I guess you didnt read the previous post about this being prissy's last litter. She has had a litter once a year. This means I skip a cycle. It is a shame the people who breed their dogs back to back.







Pregnancy is depleteing on a bitches body and she needs time to recover. I'm thankful that the vet helped me out on the visit this morning.









The news is great no third pup mon and baby are doing wonderful.









thanks for sharing your story


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## paris (Apr 8, 2005)

So glad to hear that Prissy and the pup are doing great. I applaude you for what you and Prissy are doing and have done in the past. What a joy your previous pups must be to their new families. I can remember the days when I was on my own. I know what you mean about not wanting to ask for help. You sound like a very intelligent and loving person and I'm sure you would not do anything to put Prissy in danger. Hope your day gets better. (You can always go to Prissy for some unconditional love and licks







)


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

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I agree with JMM. In previous posts you said they(the therapy group) pay the fee's and what not so why now do you owe the stud fee. Also, the therapy dogs that I have known that have been bred have to welp at the center and stay there until the pups are placed, so if something like this happens then there is a vet available. I am sorry but it all sounds a lil funny. No vet I know would say just wait to the morning if you think there is a puppy stuck 3 days after the bitch welped.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78524
[/QUOTE]

luvnpaw is small they dont have a large birthing center and dogs kept there year round. As previously stated I owe the remaining amount that luvnpaws doesnt pay. I feel like you are also trying to say that luvnpaws is a bad organizaton, or perhaps just a hoax.







This is not true just because they are not nationaly known doing mean they dont have the best intentions of helping dogs help people. About the vet saying to wait. I contacted 6 yes 6 vets and they all agreed she probly doesnt have a retained fetus due to the fact of her only symptom was runny stool which is normal. They all stated If she did in fact have a retained fetus she would had an obvious infection by the next day. They all urged me to go ahead with seeing a vet in the a.m. to be certain. 

thank you for your concern for Prissy and I.


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kodie_@Jul 6 2005, 08:01 AM
> *I'm so sorry to hear about the complications with Prissy.  I pray that everything is take care of and your little girl is back in perfect health.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

thank you for your encouragement it really helps me to not feel like I'm the onyl one


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by tlunn_@Jul 6 2005, 09:15 AM
> *So sorry to hear about Prissy.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

the boy pup is doing great.He drives me crazy cause he is a whiner. However prissy is taking great care of him and they are fab.









I too thought it was odd about the whole wait and see approach this is why I called several places. If she did have a retained pup they would have to do a c sectiona and the pup would for sure be dead. sad I know. I think it is great to ask ?'s It would be better if more people truly knew about these topics in order to comment with knowledge.

thanks


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Jul 6 2005, 09:49 AM
> *Did Prissy have an ultrasound during her pregnancy? I was under the impression that most good Maltese breeders do this as a matter of routine since the breed has a high percentage of c-sections.
> 
> If you had one done, you would know how many pups Prissy carried and whether there was a 3rd fetus retained.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

She did recieve an ultra sound very early and it was too difficult to determine the exact amount of pups. This is common in little guys because they are crammed in there so tight. I feel that I am very lucky to have had no problems in the past. I dont do this to make money. It is bitter sweet that this is her last litter she has done a fab job in providing 7 little helpers out there and a number of happy familys. She has done her part in contributing to the extreme need of therapy dogs.  

thanks for your concern


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Jul 6 2005, 12:45 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]


So there's not another pup?








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nope but I'm glad this spares her a surgery


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

I am sooooooo glad to hear mother and pup are doing fine  After what you have been through I don't know how you could give the little fella up!!

BEST WISHES


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

I'm glad Prissy and the pup are doing well!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

You certainly have been through a lot for one just barely 20. Hopefully the one surviving pup will do well, Prissy can retire, and you can get your life and finances in order.

I know you planned on keeping a puppy. Will you keep this one?


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78510


I agree with JMM. In previous posts you said they(the therapy group) pay the fee's and what not so why now do you owe the stud fee. Also, the therapy dogs that I have known that have been bred have to welp at the center and stay there until the pups are placed, so if something like this happens then there is a vet available. I am sorry but it all sounds a lil funny. No vet I know would say just wait to the morning if you think there is a puppy stuck 3 days after the bitch welped.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78524
[/QUOTE]

luvnpaw is small they dont have a large birthing center and dogs kept there year round. As previously stated I owe the remaining amount that luvnpaws doesnt pay. I feel like you are also trying to say that luvnpaws is a bad organizaton, or perhaps just a hoax.







This is not true just because they are not nationaly known doing mean they dont have the best intentions of helping dogs help people. About the vet saying to wait. I contacted 6 yes 6 vets and they all agreed she probly doesnt have a retained fetus due to the fact of her only symptom was runny stool which is normal. They all stated If she did in fact have a retained fetus she would had an obvious infection by the next day. They all urged me to go ahead with seeing a vet in the a.m. to be certain. 

thank you for your concern for Prissy and I.








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78657
[/QUOTE]

Ok I like many have deleted my response a few times, saying naa not worth it, it's only the internet but I just can't do it. As far as my concern for you and your dog, I don't have any for you only your dog. As cold as that sounds, this seems like a whole drama fed ordeal with you being the center of it. I agree w/ Nicole you made these choices knowing you didn't have the money to pay for things if problems occured, in previous posts you have said that you didn't get an xray done because the Org decided not to; reason being she never has had issues. DUH! You have an older female on her 4th litter and every preg is different, if anything she is at more risk now. You stress you aren't a back yard breeder doing it for the money yet the therapy people only get a portion off the sale of these pups that don't make it and are sold. So you have made money off the puppy sales, a few thousand dollars. Your family has been breeding Chi's for 30 plus years how many are shown, test, titled? Knowing money is tight you choose to put your dog at risk however well intentioned. If you are in a bad spot work thru it, and don't assume you are the only one struggling with bills, school, work and lack of money or time. It is called life we all deal with it. But I truelly don't understand how you could have bred your dog knowing that you didn't have the money to care for her or her puppies if there is an issue. You took a risk with her life knowing you may not be able to save her if something goes wrong, you choose to put her in this position and now it seems you want everyone to feel sorry you. I for one don't, I am sorry for the puppy that died, if your mom thought something was off why wouldn't yall take the baby to the vet right away, you have done this before you know how fragile they are at birth. I feel sorry for Prissy because you gambled with her life without having the resources to fully back her up if something went wrong.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

I too thought it was odd about the whole wait and see approach this is why I called several places. If she did have a retained pup they would have to do a c sectiona and the pup would for sure be dead. sad I know. I think it is great to ask ?'s It would be better if more people truly knew about these topics in order to comment with knowledge.

When I signed on to check the messages today, I thought I must be on that "other" site. Hey, folks, I thought we were the nice guys, who tried to help without criticism, and who didn't spout off without first hand knowledge? 
I just want to say how much I admire Sarah for what she has done with her Prissy. This is an unselfish act. I dare say she lost money over time. If she had been greedy, just wanting to breed for money, she could have had a much more lucrative market for Prissy pups. 
For those of you who are so eager to find fault with breeders, just remember that if it wasn't for them, you wouldn't have your precious Maltese. True, there are a lot of bad ones out there, but with the tone of some people who spout off without knowing what you are talking about, it makes responsible breeders more leery of selling their pups. Then, the good ones have less pups, sell to few people, and the others have to go to the undesirable breeders to get one. Remember, the responsible breeders do this for the love of the breed and not $$$. So, why should they continue to have pups to provide for unappreciative people who are ignorant of the whole process of breeding and developing good lines of Maltese?
We have some wonderful people on this site. There are a few who make the saying "shallow brooks are noisy" so true.


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## CoriMalte (Jun 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by dhodina_@Jul 6 2005, 11:28 AM
> *Ok I like many have deleted my response a few times, saying naa not worth it, it's only the internet but I just can't do it.  As far as my concern for you and your dog, I don't have any for you only your dog.  As cold as that sounds, this seems like a whole drama fed ordeal with you being the center of it.  I agree w/ Nicole you made these choices knowing you didn't have the money to pay for things if problems occured, in previous posts you have said that you didn't get an xray done because the Org decided not to; reason being she never has had issues.  DUH!  You have an older female on her 4th litter and every preg is different, if anything she is at more risk now.  You stress you aren't a back yard breeder doing it for the money yet the therapy people only get a portion off the sale of these pups that don't make it and are sold.  So you have made money off the puppy sales, a few thousand dollars.  Your family has been breeding Chi's for 30 plus years how many are shown, test, titled?  Knowing money is tight you choose to put your dog at risk however well intentioned.  If you are in a bad spot work thru it, and don't assume you are the only one struggling with bills, school, work and lack of money or time.  It is called life we all deal with it.  But I truelly don't understand how you could have bred your dog knowing that you didn't have the money to care for her or her puppies if there is an issue.  You took a risk with her life knowing you may not be able to save her if something goes wrong, you choose to put her in this position and now it seems you want everyone to feel sorry you.  I for one don't, I am sorry for the puppy that died, if your mom thought something was off why wouldn't yall take the baby to the vet right away, you have done this before you know how fragile they are at birth.  I feel sorry for Prissy because you gambled with her life without having the resources to fully back her up if something went wrong.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78684*


[/QUOTE]


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

I hope you'll keep us up to date on the progress of Mom and pup. In re-reading my original post I hope it didn't come across as critical of you, I was mostly thinking outloud (or on the internet as the case may be). It wasn't intended to be critical. 

LucyLou is right, for a moment there it almost seemed as if we were on the "other site". I, for one, an enormously thankful that there are breeders willing to take the risk of having puppies so that we can have our little bundle of joy. Not every breeder can be "world class" "championship" breeders. I found my puppy at a breeder much like you, one dog, one litter, once a year who sold me a puppy at a price I could afford. I'll always be grateful for that. 

As the saying goes hindsight is 20/20 and I am sure that after three easy litters you were not expecting this tragedy (I think the death of any pup is a tragedy







) Sadly money makes the world go round and I am sure all of us have worries about it of one sort or another. 

Post pictures of the little guy!!


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## paris (Apr 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LucyLou_@Jul 6 2005, 02:33 PM
> *When I signed on to check the messages today, I thought I must be on that "other" site.  Hey, folks, I thought we were the nice guys, who tried to help without criticism, and who didn't spout off without first hand knowledge?
> I just want to say how much I admire Sarah for what she has done with her Prissy.  This is an unselfish act.  I dare say she lost money over time.  If she had been greedy, just wanting to breed for money, she could have had a much more lucrative market for Prissy pups.
> For those of you who are so eager to find fault with breeders, just remember that if it wasn't for them, you wouldn't have your precious Maltese.  True, there are a lot of bad ones out there, but with the tone of some people who spout off without knowing what you are talking about, it makes responsible breeders more leery of selling their pups.  Then, the good ones have less pups, sell to few people, and the others have to go to the undesirable breeders to get one.  Remember, the responsible breeders do this for the love of the breed and not $$$.  So, why should they continue to have pups to provide for unappreciative people who are ignorant of the whole process of breeding and developing good lines of Maltese?
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## Pippinsmom (Nov 29, 2004)

Taking the risk and breeding your bitch is one thing. Taking the risk when you are unable (financially and/or otherwise) to afford the consequences and complications involved in breeding is another. I don't care what the purpose of this litter was...service dogs or not...if the breeder does not have the ability or capacity to deal with the outcome when things go south...then maybe she should not be breeding until she is in a position where she is capable of doing so. No one twisted her arm and made her have this litter. We sit on this site and preach about how people should not be purchasing puppies unless they have the means, financially and otherwise, to care for them properly...what reaction do you think someone is going to get when they post a thread like this?

It's about making responsible choices. It's about taking the risk knowing that sometimes things are going to go wrong, and being prepared for when they do. I think it is a terrific thing that Sarah is doing...but I question why she would be taking these types of risks at a point in her life when she does not have the means to do so. Sorry if this makes me one of the "ignorant" people referred to in another post.

I am just glad that Prissy and the puppy are doing well.


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Jul 6 2005, 02:08 PM
> *You certainly have been through a lot for one just barely 20. Hopefully the one surviving pup will do well, Prissy can retire, and you can get your life and finances in order.
> 
> I know you planned on keeping a puppy. Will you keep this one?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78681*


[/QUOTE]
I still havent deceided yet. I'm trying to get in contact with a well known breeder her is texas to get some advice and get shown the ropes to the show world. To some day get a show pup. However my emails have not been replied to. If I kept a pup it was gonna be a girl but who knows, I could fall madly in love. There is a potential adoptie in NM. We will hacve to see when the pup gets older if he would be a good canidate for therapy and his new family. We will see. Since this has been so rough I think I have turned my Love meter up for the boy and Prissy. Isnt it weird how pets can do so much more for you than a person when feeling down? He is going to be well loved either way


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

ok I'm tired of this. :new_Eyecrazy: I will only address a few issues. No prissy did not have x rays during her preg she had an ultra sound they are very much 2 different things. my mother bred chis for 30 + years finished 18 champs and had two with ob titles. Thank you again for assuming that my mother was a BYB dont comment with out knowing the whole story. As far as $ is concerned I dont think I'm any different than anyone else we ALL have issues with cash from time to time. Luvnpaws has a special program just in case I cant pay my end of the responibilities. There for if a puppy needed open heart surgery to live it would get it no matter what money I had. Even if something happened and luvnpaws didnt offer help my family and friends would not let anything happen to these babies or Prissy. We would pitch and save to get what ever was needed done. No one Plans to have Money trouble I had a job lined up here for when I came home. The business went bankrupt. Had I had known that I would go 2 months between jobs Perhaps I wouldnt have had these pups. My mother took the girl pup to the vet 5 times in just what 3 days. I believe we tried our hardest. The doc called me today and said it appears she had water on the head as will as a digestive problem. The digestive problem caused her to not absorb nutrients needed. So no matter how many hours my mom spent up with her tube feeding it didnt make a difference. Here I come to the forum for support and great advice and info just as all of us do. I'm upset with the problems that have happened but they did and we are back on track. We say we are a better forum than the other. I dont think so I just think we can hide it better. I will not be as active now, as many people have felt they had to do due to the same problem of Personal attacks. 

I feel I cant share and that is what a forum is about.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by sassy14830_@Jul 6 2005, 06:53 PM
> *ok I'm tired of this. :new_Eyecrazy:  I will only address a few issues. No prissy did not have x rays during her preg  she had an ultra sound they are very much 2 different things. my mother bred chis for 30 + years finished 18 champs and had two with ob titles. Thank you again for assuming that my mother was a BYB dont comment with out knowing the whole story. As far as $ is concerned I dont think I'm any different than anyone else we ALL have issues with cash from time to time. Luvnpaws has a special program just in case I cant pay my end of the responibilities. There for if a puppy needed open heart surgery to live it would get it no matter what money I had. Even if something happened and luvnpaws didnt offer help my family and friends would not let anything happen to these babies or Prissy. We would pitch and save to get what ever was needed done. No one Plans to have Money trouble I had a job lined up here for when I came home. The business went bankrupt. Had I had known that I would go 2 months between jobs Perhaps I wouldnt have had these pups. My mother took the girl pup to the vet 5 times in just what 3 days. I believe we tried our hardest. The doc called me today and said it appears she had water on the head as will as a digestive problem. The digestive problem caused her to not absorb nutrients needed. So no matter how many hours my mom spent up with her tube feeding it didnt make a difference.  Here I come to the forum for support and great advice and info just as all of us do. I'm upset with the problems that have happened but they did and we are back on track. We say we are a better forum than the other. I dont think so I just think we can hide it better. I will not be as active now, as many people have felt they had to do due to the same problem of Personal attacks.
> 
> I feel I cant share and that is what a forum is about.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Sarah, I am so sorry that there are people on this forum who are being judgmental and suspicious, making false assumptions, jumping to conclusions, placing blame, and "kicking you when you're down".









A religious quote comes to mind... I am not at all religious nor Christian, but I think this quote attributed to Jesus is appropriate here: "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LucyLou_@Jul 6 2005, 02:33 PM
> *I too thought it was odd about the whole wait and see approach this is why I called several places. If she did have a retained pup they would have to do a c sectiona and the pup would for sure be dead. sad I know. I think it is great to ask ?'s It would be better if more people truly knew about these topics in order to comment with knowledge.
> 
> When I signed on to check the messages today, I thought I must be on that "other" site.  Hey, folks, I thought we were the nice guys, who tried to help without criticism, and who didn't spout off without first hand knowledge?
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I rarely take a stand in things like this. I prefer to ignore this kind of people. I have been active in a few forums but never encountered rudeness to the point demonstrated by some people in this forum. The same people that have been rude at MO have not changed when they came over here after being booted from there. Since Jay seems to like rudeness, maybe he will be glad to take them back. It's a shame if Joe will have to put in moderators because of a few bad apples. 

I am sorry Sarah that with all that happened to you over the week end you also had to put up with such negativity. Yes, when it rains, it poors. But after the rain, there is sunshine. It is already shining, Prissy and the little pup are ok. And you will make it through this ordeal too and come out stronger. 

I wonder how many on this forum would have enough cash flow to pay for an expensive surgery for their dog ? Oh I am sure if you don't have it you will find it the same way Sarah would find it.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

> A religious quote comes to mind... I am not at all religious nor Christian, but I think this quote attributed to Jesus is appropriate here: "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."[/B]


Yes, and before you judge somebody else, better start cleaning under your own door mat.


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## Laceys mom (Nov 12, 2004)

Sarah, I am so happy to read that Prissy and the little boy are doing good. Good thoughts, kisses and hugs from Lacey and I.


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## Puddles Mom (Jun 20, 2004)

I am not in the one to judge others.

I can only pray and hope all goes well for people.

So glad Prissy and baby boy are doing well. 
Post some pictures


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

I never felt for a minute that Sarah wouldn't provide the financial means to care for Prissy. I felt that she was just very frustrated when she knew that she might be facing this situation of the extra expenses. She had a back up plan, she just was trying to handle the situation herself.
There are a number of list members here. Some may have money, and some probably live from pay day to pay day. We have one thing in common thought and that is that we all love our dogs. On Mother's Day, we had a member whose dog had a horrible accident. Her bill was, I believe, around $5000. It's not something she planned on, but she was able to cover it. Now, for all those other list members, if you didn't have that much in the bank if that happened to you, does that mean that you shouldn't have a dog at this time? Most of you would find a way to do what is needed for your beloved, whether it be a mutt or a champion. And, I feel that is what Sarah would have done for Prissy. She just needed support when she posted. 
Please folks, let's get back to working with each other, rather than trying to copy the attitude of that other site.


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## AJ (Jun 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LucyLou_@Jul 6 2005, 02:33 PM
> *I too thought it was odd about the whole wait and see approach this is why I called several places. If she did have a retained pup they would have to do a c sectiona and the pup would for sure be dead. sad I know. I think it is great to ask ?'s It would be better if more people truly knew about these topics in order to comment with knowledge.
> 
> When I signed on to check the messages today, I thought I must be on that "other" site.  Hey, folks, I thought we were the nice guys, who tried to help without criticism, and who didn't spout off without first hand knowledge?
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I agree with you COMPLETELY...we should definitely support eachother on everything, not make us feel like its all our faults. I would hate to be piled with soo much criticism when it wasnt really my fault. I am sorry Sarah that some people have not been very respectful to you, please do not let that get to you, its not true. I wouldnt want to be a breeder because so many people find one little imperfection and make it into a huge deal, its not as easy as everyone thinks I can definitely tell.


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

I am glad Prissy is okay. I certainly understand about being short on money (we always are and this month more than ever). But I think that you have to do what you think is right for your baby. I know its tough. Our credit cards are completely maxed out and we are desperately waiting for next paycheck and I look over at Miko and I swear he is starting to shake his head and I am so worried that he will have another ear infection. I don't know...sometimes I think we are just dragging him to the vet way too much. I know that you will do everything you can for your baby. Sorry for the rambling...I am tired!


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LucyLou_@Jul 6 2005, 08:22 PM
> *I never felt for a minute that Sarah wouldn't provide the financial means to care for Prissy.  I felt that she was just very frustrated when she knew that she might be facing this situation of the extra expenses.  She had a back up plan, she just was trying to handle the situation herself.
> There are a number of list members here.  Some may have money, and some probably live from pay day to pay day.  We have one thing in common thought and that is that we all love our dogs.  On Mother's Day, we had a member whose dog had a horrible accident.  Her bill was, I believe, around $5000.  It's not something she planned on, but she was able to cover it.  Now, for all those other list members, if you didn't have that much in the bank if that happened to you, does that mean that you shouldn't have a dog at this time?  Most of you would find a way to do what is needed for your beloved, whether it be a mutt or a champion.  And, I feel that is what Sarah would have done for Prissy.  She just needed support when she posted.
> Please folks, let's get back to working with each other, rather than trying to copy the attitude of that other site.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78799*


[/QUOTE]

You are confusing the issue I have here. Accidents do happen and you can't stop them. You do not have to be rich to own a dog, but how many here stress haveing money set to the side to cover emergancies? Including your 5000 dollar expample. By you saying she has a backup plan but wanted to do it herself, to me if your backup plan is borrowing from someone else this isn't somthing you need to do at this time. If three hundred is a big deal more planning needed to be done as we all know that is nothing as far as vet costs go. However, choosing to breed and owning a dog are two different things all together. A planned breeding isn't a horrible accident, and to breed a dog when you don't have the money to cover any unplanned bills is irresponsible and unfair to that animal. You can never be 100% prepared for anything but you can greatly increase or decrease your odds of having that medical emergancy by breeding or not breeding her. She chooses to gamble with her dogs life and then wants all attention on her. I won't apologize for my thoughts or views, and we all know I am one of "them" that you all seem to refer to, but this is a public forum, I don't have to jump on the wagon if I choose not to. And on this I don't agree I think she is an irresponsible young girl, who loves the attention she is getting, she does love her dog but not enough not to gamble with her life for whatever she wants to gain be it attention or money. She didn't protect her dog and I think she is wrong.


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

Quote
She chooses to gamble with her dogs life and then wants all attention on her. I won't apologize for my thoughts or views, and we all know I am one of "them" that you all seem to refer to, but this is a public forum, I don't have to jump on the wagon if I choose not to. And on this I don't agree I think she is an irresponsible young girl, who loves the attention she is getting, she does love her dog but not enough not to gamble with her life for whatever she wants to gain be it attention or money. She didn't protect her dog and I think she is wrong.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78845
[/QUOTE]


As I have stated OVER and OVER I wanted to pay for it my self. I always had the option to ask for help from parents, bf, and therapy group. You are intitled to your own opionion as am I. There is no excuse for your above quote. You dont know me No one one here truely knows me. I am not a young girl I am a woman. I have never made any money providing therapy dogs for people. I have LOST tons of $. I do this because of the extreme need for dogs for the hearing impaired. Prissy has a gift. It is rare to find a dog that possesses the ability to do a great job assiting that is small in size (which is what is desired). If you dont agree with what I do for the handicaped society that is find odd but fine. I refuse to let a few nasty people get in the way of providing quality dogs for the hearing impaired.


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## AJ (Jun 5, 2005)

> Quote
> She chooses to gamble with her dogs life and then wants all attention on her. I won't apologize for my thoughts or views, and we all know I am one of "them" that you all seem to refer to, but this is a public forum, I don't have to jump on the wagon if I choose not to. And on this I don't agree I think she is an irresponsible young girl, who loves the attention she is getting, she does love her dog but not enough not to gamble with her life for whatever she wants to gain be it attention or money. She didn't protect her dog and I think she is wrong.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78845



As I have stated OVER and OVER I wanted to pay for it my self. I always had the option to ask for help from parents, bf, and therapy group. You are intitled to your own opionion as am I. There is no excuse for your above quote. You dont know me No one one here truely knows me. I am not a young girl I am a woman. I have never made any money providing therapy dogs for people. I have LOST tons of $. I do this because of the extreme need for dogs for the hearing impaired. Prissy has a gift. It is rare to find a dog that possesses the ability to do a great job assiting that is small in size (which is what is desired). If you dont agree with what I do for the handicaped society that is find odd but fine. I refuse to let a few nasty people get in the way of providing quality dogs for the hearing impaired.








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78861
[/QUOTE]

Good attitude!







Continue with pride!


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom_@Jul 6 2005, 07:07 PM
> *Sarah, I am so sorry that there are people on this forum who are being judgmental and suspicious, making false assumptions, jumping to conclusions, placing blame, and "kicking you when you're down".
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with all above, it drives me crazy that every month or two a thread pops up like this that makes me







and someone has nothing better to say than open their mouth and ruin a thread for someone either looking for advice, need help or did something someone views differently, yes this is a public forum and yes I love letting freedom of speech rein supreme but i just want to stick my head in a 5 gallon bucket of water and drown myself sometimes because adults cant even "act" like adults and not judge others when they cant put theirself in that persons shoes

sorry to be so stern sounding







my rant is off now


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## AJ (Jun 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Joe+Jul 6 2005, 11:06 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to agree with all above, it drives me crazy that every month or two a thread pops up like this that makes me







and someone has nothing better to say than open their mouth and ruin a thread for someone either looking for advice, need help or did something someone views differently, yes this is a public forum and yes I love letting freedom of speech rein supreme but i just want to stick my head in a 5 gallon bucket of water and drown myself sometimes because adults cant even "act" like adults and not judge others when they cant put theirself in that persons shoes

sorry to be so stern sounding







my rant is off now
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78873
[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm soo happy youre here because we needed you







Its getting out of control with some people and hurting others







You should find a way we can stop this


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)

Why is it when someone on here has an opinion, contrary to popular opinion, they are deemed rude? 

Maybe it is a wake up call? 

I never judged anyone, I want to be clear on that! I simply pointed out that this was not an accident, it was an intentional situation the dog was put in and prior to doing this, money should have been set aside for such emergencies. You are dealing with a life, I think some respect should be had for it!

I am sorry for Prissy and her situation, I am not sorry, however, for having an opinion that differs from everyone else's.


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## Carol Ann (Dec 5, 2004)

You know, it may be less the content of what is said, and more a matter of the WAY that things are said. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but we ALL should be mindful of how we say things. Opinions are good. Differing opinions are a fact of life. Exchanging them makes for interesting conversation. Saying things in a hurtful way is simply unnecessary, and doesn't make for an environment where people can feel comfortable. We have an unusual place here. Let's please keep it special.


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## BugHillHeather (May 13, 2005)

Okay everyone--most of this boils down to a simple case of semantics.









You can say the same thing but in different ways. For example, take a glass of water filled halfway--the glass is either half-full or half-empty depending on which way you choose to look at it. Its the exact same thing, but one is positive and one is negative. 








People listen: you can share your thoughts, opinions, beliefs, etc. but how you choose to share it is completely up to you. You can share in a positive (i.e. non-inflammatory) way or you can share in a negative (extremely inflammatory) way. Also, consider this: the best way to get your point across is to get the other person to understand why you are saying what you are saying. No one is going to listen to you if you rant, rave, and show your behind.

End of story. 

If you communicate effectively and carefully consider the words you use and how you use them, you can get your point across in a meaningful and adult manner. Also, sometimes you simply have to agree to disagree.

Also, the right to free speech gives you the right to say what you think and believe, but does not give you the right to infringe upon others' right to free speech.

(bet you couldn't guess that I'm an English/Communicaiton Skills teacher, huh? LOL)


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

This whole situation has been on my mind.... here is my "analysis" of it...

Of course, we are not expected to always agree with each other and we certainly have our opinions; such as one person says .... _"I love bla bla dog food; I think it is the best for my baby and the price is excellent."_ And someone else says _"Yes but it has by-products in it and I'd never use food with by-products in it because I've read that by-products are a poor form of protein." _

Yes ... the example above is a disagreement. However, if you add the following assumptions to the "friendly" disagreement... it becomes something else: _"You are irresponsible if you feed your baby that food. You are a cheapskate for choosing such shoddy food for your baby. You only care about yourself, since you spend money on yourself but not your baby." _

*If a disagreement is based on facts, it is one thing... but when it digresses to questioning the motives of someone or placing blame, it becomes a personal attack. *

Why would anyone on here want to intentionally slam someone? I just can't imagine. Yes, sometimes we accidentally hurt someone's feelings when something is taken the wrong way, but that is not what I'm talking about here.

However, in this thread there is no question.... and if I said, the "intent was to hurt someone's feelings" then I would be guilty of assuming also. Yet, when it is said that something is "someone's fault" and that someone is "irresponsible" and that someone "loves attention" ... it is pretty obvious that it is going to hurt her feelings. 

This was a young woman who came to us at a very low point in her life looking for support.... *we could choose to offer support or not*... but the accusations and assumptions were uncalled for.


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

Kallie/Catcher's Mom[/i]@Jul 7 2005 said:


> Yes ... the example above is a disagreement. However, if you add the following assumptions to the "friendly" disagreement... it becomes something else: _"You are irresponsible if you feed your baby that food.  You are a cheapskate for choosing such shoddy food for your baby. You only care about yourself, since you spend money on yourself but not your baby." _
> 
> *If a disagreement is based on facts, it is one thing... but when it digresses to questioning the motives of someone or placing blame, it becomes a personal attack. *
> 
> ...


[/B][/QUOTE]

































Wish I'd said this, but since I didn't, I can certainly agree that you presented the clearest picture of this situation and the others like it that have sprung up in the past because someone let their emotions carry them away. Opinion is one thing and is definitely sought after on this forum but judgement is another animal entirely and since we can never know every detail of every situation and its history we are completely unqualified to judge it or the persons involved.

So there!


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

This was a young woman who came to us at a very low point in her life looking for support.... *we could choose to offer support or not*... but the accusations and assumptions were uncalled for.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78925
[/QUOTE]


Thank you for stating the situation the way you did. There is no excuse for anyone to attack others personally on this or any other forum.


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by BugHillHeather_@Jul 7 2005, 01:17 AM
> *
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]








well said

i watched a show last night for the first time called 30 Days , where each week someone goes and lives in someone elses shoes, last night a devout Christian man from Michigan went and lived in Castros(sp?, San Fransisco), the gay capital of the world, he believed gay marrige was wrong, and still may but at the end of the show he had a whole new outook on life because he walked in shoes that were not his own

there are things that happen on this forum and others i own that i dont agree with or think is totally wrong and yes I may form an opinion but how could i be critical of anyones actions or decisions if I'm not there, if I dont know every detail of the situation, if I dont even know that person how could I attack them in any way? i've learned ways to offer support or frankly keep my mouth shut and hope for the best, all i ask is the treat others as you would want to be treated, put yourself in the other persons shoes, what if it was reversed, you cant say you would do, act or decide any better until you are in that situation, state your opinions on the SUBJECT, dont make it personal and judge a person



> Karma literally means "deed" or "act" and more broadly names the universal principle of cause and effect, action and reaction which governs all life. Karma is not fate, for man acts with free will creating his own destiny. According to the Vedas, if we sow goodness, we will reap goodness; if we sow evil, we will reap evil. Karma refers to the totality of our actions and their concommitant reactions in this and previous lives, all of which determines our future. The conquest of karma lies in intelligent action and dispassionate reaction. Not all karmas rebound immediately. Some accumulate and return unexpectedly in this or other births.[/B]


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Joe_@Jul 7 2005, 11:46 AM
> *<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78900*


*

i watched a show last night for the first time called 30 Days , where each week someone goes and lives in someone elses shoes, last night a devout Christian man from Michigan went and lived in Castros(sp?, San Fransisco), the gay capital of the world, he believed gay marrige was wrong, and still may but at the end of the show he had a whole new outook on life because he walked in shoes that were not his own

there are things that happen on this forum and others i own that i dont agree with or think is totally wrong and yes I may form an opinion but how could i be critical of anyones actions or decisions if I'm not there, if I dont know every detail of the situation, if I dont even know that person how could I attack them in any way? i've learned ways to offer support or frankly keep my mouth shut and hope for the best, all i ask is the treat others as you would want to be treated, put yourself in the other persons shoes, what if it was reversed, you cant say you would do, act or decide any better until you are in that situation, state your opinions on the SUBJECT, dont make it personal and judge a person




Karma literally means "deed" or "act" and more broadly names the universal principle of cause and effect, action and reaction which governs all life. Karma is not fate, for man acts with free will creating his own destiny. According to the Vedas, if we sow goodness, we will reap goodness; if we sow evil, we will reap evil. Karma refers to the totality of our actions and their concommitant reactions in this and previous lives, all of which determines our future. The conquest of karma lies in intelligent action and dispassionate reaction. Not all karmas rebound immediately. Some accumulate and return unexpectedly in this or other births.

Click to expand...

*<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=78976
[/B][/QUOTE]

Joe, you are so right! It is wonderful to have a site owner/administrator who has such an open mind and a compassionate heart.


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

When I first joined SM I was so impressed with the friendly and helpful people I found posting here, very different to the other site I used to be assosiated with. I must say I am very disappointed to be reading through this string and see the judgemantal attitudes of some posters.
Here is a young woman who has successfully bred her dog on previous occasions without incident and for a very good purpose I might add. I agree that there is an element of risk in everything we do in life, and sometimes we are prepared and then sometimes we are not. What I find here is very sad indeed, a person posts in good faith looking for some support and good advice only to be ostracized by some people who are so without sin that they can sit and judge others.
What I think is that no-one is without fault, wouldn't it be much nicer to just offer some sound, helpful advice rather than attack this woman and make her feel worse than she already does. I feel confident that Prissy is being very well cared for and everything that could be done for her was indeed done.
Sarah, I just want to say I am very pleased all has turned out well for Prissy and her little boy. I am sorry you lost your little girl puppy, but perhaps it just wasn't meant to be for her and nature has a way of taking care of these situations in a way that is best for the puppy, she is at peace and not suffering.
Please Sarah, keep us posted on the progress of your Prissy and her little boy, I certainly would like to know how they are doing.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2005)

Sarah, I am so sorry for your loss of your baby. I'm very happy however that Prissy is doing well. I have only been here for a short time and I love this site. I was totally shocked by some of the replies to your post. I am usually smiling or laughing out loud as I read the posts. The pictures of everyone' babies light up my day. You have had a really hard week and I know your heart is aching. Hopefully this thread will end soon and we can talk about your baby boy and see how he is developing. Take a break! You deserve it!


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## ourprettytessa (Apr 9, 2005)

i have read this thread and held back my thoughts for reasons that may be obvious. 

BUT, i can tell you this. i LOVE that people on this forum have their own opinion and as someone else mentioned, just because the general feeling of a topic leans one way, not everyone chooses to "jump on the bandwagon." 

i LOVE a good argument, whether it stays civil or not. everyone is responsible for their own actions. if people want to say things in a "nice" way or not, it is up to them. 

personally, i really don't care about the personal grief that prissy's mom is going through and i will not sugar-coat a reply if i don't feel its necessary. i DO CARE that prissy has gone through a great deal and her fate has been put at risk. 

i think its great that you (sarah) are trying to help the hearing impaired (if i'm correct) but you breeding prissy is no different than a BYB. using the excuse of helping handicapped people is just ignorant. if you care so much about the hearing impaired (?) there are MANY other ways for you to offer your help/money other than jeopordizing your dog's life. 

you claim that you lost money breeding prissy. this money could have been donated to a reputable organzation. if this is something you are really passoniate about there are many ways for you to get involved other than breeding your dog. to me (a young girl who is 21), you (at age 20) do not have the means/education/wisdom/responsibility to be breeding. i am not a person 15 years older than you that is judging you. i am simply your peer that disapproves of your ways.


i am very sorry for the loss of the puppy.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

This is a Texas group that provides dogs for the hearing impaired free of charge. What is great about this group is that it rescue dogs from shelters and trains them.

http://www.servicedogs.org/


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ourprettytessa_@Jul 7 2005, 01:18 PM
> *i have read this thread and held back my thoughts for reasons that may be obvious.
> 
> BUT, i can tell you this. i LOVE that people on this forum have their own opinion and as someone else mentioned, just because the general feeling of a topic leans one way, not everyone chooses to "jump on the bandwagon."
> ...


[/QUOTE]

A few things here first off let me say





















to Tessa she is dead on the money. 

Secondly, if your back up plan is borrowing from someone that means you financially shouldn't do it, what if your backup plan has an emergancy and has no money to lend? What genetic tests has Prissy had done? What therapy certifications does she have? She is ckc registered- your words not mine. As we have seen preached on here many times that is a registry that puppymillers use quite a bit. So what have you done to ensure you aren't creating these time bombs we have heard of for so long. Lady's mom can tell you these things don't show up til the dog is right around 5 yrs old. On that note I think alot of you defending her actions should take a look at your other posts where you tore breeders apart for breeding the same type of dog. Recommending those dogs shouldn't be bought they are "genetic time bombs" so why are they not ok to breed for pets but it is ok to breed as "therapy dogs" and if they don't make then the "breeder" sells them and makes money. 
No one has said anything about you directly or the therapy group but you have twisted it to that a few times. Asking me why I am against therapy dogs, well I am not, I am against your actions and you hiding behind the "I am doing it for them" excuses. I have had the opportunity to meet two Certified Therapy dogs who both have their CGC's and you know what they were both rescues. 
I have not said anything against you as a person only your actions. What you did was irresponsible, and now it has become a pity party for you because you lost a puppy, and people are being rude/judgemental/and so on about your actions. As I said before all about you, you seem to care more for the attention than you did about the risks you took with your dogs life.


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## paris (Apr 8, 2005)

Enough is enough!!


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

I agree with Paris, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

Instead of being an issue to be discussed this has become an argument to be won. There are no winners or losers here. A sad and tragic thing has happened and no amount of arguing or heated discussion or personal attacks or airing of opinion can change that. Many of you have made your opinion very clear and it has been heard by all. 

We are beating a dead horse here. Nothing will be accomplished by furthering this discussion.


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## AJ (Jun 5, 2005)

Some people have already made there point by showing there "not so nice" opinion...we see it and we don't need you defending yourself, it is not making the situation any better for Sarah or Prissy. What we should be doing is showing support for her-not bashing her with criticism...


Bottom line...

<span style="font-family:Impact">ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!</span>


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## RexsMom (Jun 8, 2005)

How are Prissy and baby boy doing? I hope they are getting stronger every day! Best wishes!


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

> Karma literally means "deed" or "act" and more broadly names the universal principle of cause and effect, action and reaction which governs all life. Karma is not fate, for man acts with free will creating his own destiny. According to the Vedas, if we sow goodness, we will reap goodness; if we sow evil, we will reap evil. Karma refers to the totality of our actions and their concommitant reactions in this and previous lives, all of which determines our future. The conquest of karma lies in intelligent action and dispassionate reaction. Not all karmas rebound immediately. Some accumulate and return unexpectedly in this or other births.[/B]












Simplified : what goes around comes around.

Namaste


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## TikisMom (Jul 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Scoobydoo_@Jul 7 2005, 11:19 AM
> *When I first joined SM I was so impressed with the friendly and helpful people I found posting here, very different to the other site I used to be assosiated with. I must say I am very disappointed to be reading through this string and see the judgemantal attitudes of some posters.
> Here is a young woman who has successfully bred her dog on previous occasions without incident and for a very good purpose I might add. I agree that there is an element of risk in everything we do in life, and sometimes we are prepared and then sometimes we are not. What I find here is very sad indeed, a person posts in good faith looking for some support and good advice only to be ostracized by some people who are so without sin that they can sit and judge others.
> What I think is that no-one is without fault, wouldn't it be much nicer to just offer some sound, helpful advice rather than attack this woman and make her feel worse than she already does. I feel confident that Prissy is being very well cared for and everything that could be done for her was indeed done.
> ...


[/QUOTE]


I have kept out of this discussion because I found it much to difficult to express how I feel in words...... This is perfect scoobydoo... good job putting into words exactly how I feel. I hope we don't lose Sarah because of this ordeal! Lets give her some support and comfort during this difficult time. Please Sarah, please keep us posted!

Judi


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## paris (Apr 8, 2005)

Sarah has posted some pictures of the little guy and Prissy in "Everything Else" under "Puppy picture" for those interested in viewing.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I'm sorry for the pup you lost. 

Hydrocephalus, or "water on the brain" is a congenital condition that is considered hereditary in Maltese and a few other breeds. The severity can vary greatly, from causing death to only very mild signs (my Jonathan seizures about twice a year from suspected hydrocephalus). The breeding recommendations I am familiar with state not to repeat the breeding, breed an affected dog or that dog's siblings. You ought to let the stud dog owner know that a pup with hydrocephalus was produced as well as the new owners in case the pups ever develop neurological signs. Hopefully it was just the one pup.


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Jul 7 2005, 03:27 PM
> *I'm sorry for the pup you lost.
> 
> Hydrocephalus, or "water on the brain" is a congenital condition that is considered hereditary in Maltese and a few other breeds. The severity can vary greatly, from causing death to only very mild signs (my Jonathan seizures about twice a year from suspected hydrocephalus). The breeding recommendations I am familiar with state not to repeat the breeding, breed an affected dog or that dog's siblings. You ought to let the stud dog owner know that a pup with hydrocephalus was produced as well as the new owners in case the pups ever develop neurological signs. Hopefully it was just the one pup.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79081*


[/QUOTE]
thanks for the great information. I did contact the stud owner about this and she said "dexter" has never produced one before. Now that he is She is taking him for another round of genetic test to see if they can find a link. She also stated until results come back she will not use him in her own or other programs. So far the boy is doing great the little pig. Our vet told us some signs to look for in case he may have a more mild form of the problem. Due to the female pup dieing my therapy group has arranged for our vet to come by our house 1 time a week to do exams. They are taking care of the bills for these weekly house calls. I believe the boy will do great but only time will tell. He is on the right track thats for sure. 

thanks for the info, you are always so helpful

Sarah


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

I suppose the min pin is a therapy dog as well? Just because you say he is "show quality" doesn't make him breedable. Where is the testing done on him? I am sorry but I think you are full of it and just like the attention and money. Sounds like a BYB to me. 


And this is a direct quote from her profile:


Interests: I'm a college student who loves and breeds Maltese. My boyfriend owns a Min Pin who is wonderful. We do offer him for stud. I hope to get into showing Maltese however I'm having a hard time getting started. Any of you have advise please let me know.


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## mimi2 (Mar 29, 2005)

Geez Dhodina, did someone pee in your Cherrios this morning?


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by mimi2_@Jul 7 2005, 03:47 PM
> *Geez Dhodina, did someone pee in your Cherrios this morning?
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


Nope I eat rasin bran.


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

I would like to say a big Thank you to everyone for the support as well as opionions. I choose to stop tring to prove my self to others. I feel I did my best to protect and care for Prissy and her puppy. I did everything I could do to aviod having complications. She and Dexter have had all the proper genetics testing done. She has been on a wonderful vitamen type powder to ensure her and her babies got everything needed during pregnancy and after. She and the pup have had exceptional vet care and will continue to receive this. 

A wise person once said " As long as you know you did your best and tried your hardest thats all that matters" 

People on here may feel that I havent done my best but thats ok as long as I feel good about what I have done and Prissy and her pup are doing great. That is all that matters to me.

Thanks again
Sarah


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## mimi2 (Mar 29, 2005)

> _Originally posted by dhodina+Jul 7 2005, 02:50 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nope I eat rasin bran.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79094
[/B][/QUOTE]


Let me rephrase that, did someone pee in your rasin bran?


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## AJ (Jun 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by mimi2+Jul 7 2005, 04:01 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]


Let me rephrase that, did someone pee in your rasin bran?








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79096
[/B][/QUOTE]





















Youre too funny!


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## AJ (Jun 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by sassy14830_@Jul 7 2005, 03:52 PM
> *I would like to say a big Thank you to everyone for the support as well as opionions. I choose to stop tring to prove my self to others. I feel I did my best to protect and care for Prissy and her puppy. I did everything I could do to aviod having complications. She and Dexter have had all the proper genetics testing done. She has been on a wonderful vitamen type powder to ensure her and her babies got everything needed during pregnancy and after. She and the pup have had exceptional vet care and will continue to receive this.
> 
> A wise person once said " As long as you know you did your best and tried your hardest thats all that matters"
> ...


[/QUOTE]
I'm very happy that you feel better







You did do your best and thats what matters!


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by dhodina_@Jul 7 2005, 03:43 PM
> *I suppose the min pin is a therapy dog as well?  Just because you say he is "show quality" doesn't make him breedable.  Where is the testing done on him?  I am sorry but I think you are full of it and just like the attention and money.  Sounds like a BYB to me.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

The min pins name is Shiner. No he is not a therapy dog for he way to hyper. He has recieved his CGC and is just points away from his novice jumpers and novie ob titles. In the world of Min Pin showing Black and Tan is not a fav no one would expect this. the Black and Tan Min pins are more popular as pets but are extremely hard to finish in the ring. We had Shiner shown in a few rings as a pup and after considering all aspects we deceided no to continue. He loves the ring but reds are dominate. The handler said in his 40 years of showing min pins he has finished 5 black and tans and it took a very long time to do so. Thats just the way it is its sad because to me blk and tan are sopretty.







We also just got news today that one of his pups won his puppy class and yes he was red.







In just over a few months Shiner has done great in OB this is very desireable to Show breeders. It can be hard to find a min pin with a good head. by this I mean brains and beauty.









I just wanted to Share about our Shiner. I'm so exited about his new litter coming into the ring


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by mimi2_@Jul 7 2005, 04:47 PM
> *Geez Dhodina, did someone pee in your Cherrios this morning?
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by sassy14830_@Jul 7 2005, 04:52 PM
> *A wise person once said " As long as you know you did your best and tried your hardest thats all that matters"
> 
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79095*


[/QUOTE]

amen







, thread closed


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