# Question regarding breeds and standards



## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi everyone, I have what is probably a really stupid question...how do you know that the pure-bred maltese--or any other dog-- you are buying is the real deal? We are getting our first puppy in November from a very reputable breeder. She shows and is listed with the AMA, and has come highly recommended from a couple of friends. I trust that her dogs are who they say they are. But I have another friend who just bought a havanese. To my untrained eye, this dog does not look like a pure-bred havanese. It looks more like a shih-tzu/maltese cross. It's as cute as can be, but my friend bought the pup from a breeder who said the pup was from Ireland (where his parents are located). She got him at 11 weeks. She paid $1200 for the dog. I have another friend who has a pure-bred havanese and that dog looks like a havanese to me. It is all white (I know there are variations allowed) and doesn't have a "pushed-in" kind of face. She paid $3000 for the dog from a good breeder. I know this is a long lead in, but do breeders often provide genetic (DNA) proof that their dogs are pure-bred? Or are there any other ways to tell?


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## doctorcathy (May 17, 2004)

i k now that they have dna testing for akc---but i dont really know what thats for. as for your friends havanese---i've seen a lot of maltese....that dont look like purebred maltese to me. like theres this one in my maltese calendar book that looks a little funky---but that could be that dog or that litter or whatever. 

i'm sure that your breeder has purebred maltese. look at the parents and all the other malts---if you really like how they look, and you're getting papers...then you should be getting a great dog.









i hope someone is able to give you a definite answer though.


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## Brit'sMom (Aug 18, 2004)

Yes some breeders DNA test now, only a few do though. It is expensive but worth it if you want to make absolutley for sure for sure that you are getting a purebred dog. THey DNA test both parents to make sure they are PureBred Maltese.

Otherwise, just go look at some Maltese puppies in person, scour the internet for pics and in the books about Maltese so you can have a great idea of what they are suppossed to look like. Be on the look out for a large litter (although it is possible) long snouts, curly hair, and over sized pups because these may be part Bichon, OR they could just be a variation of a purebred Maltese

At Least they are all white, so there is not a whole lot people can mix them with without getting color variations which is an OBVIOUS sign that they are not purebred.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

This is a good website to compare the your puppy to. It has pictures of what the puppy should look like and how much it should way from birth to 8 weeks old.

Maltese Puppy Development


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

Wow, thanks for the insight. I am confident (given the breeder's credentials) that we will be getting what we are paying for. Our pup will come with registration and pedigree and mommy and daddy dogs are on site. My friend with the havanese, however, isn't so confident anymore. She is going to ask her vet for a DNA test. I know, however, that she loves the dog and will not give it up. I think she will go to the breeder if there is a problem though. Personally, I didn't like that she was told her dog came from Ireland. That was the explanation the breeder used when my friend asked to see the parents. To me that sounds a bit fishy. I know some states have puppy lemon laws, but I don't think they cover the issue of breed misrepresentation. When you pay upwards of $2,000 to $3,000 for a dog, it certainly pays to do your homework.


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## JustMe (May 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Brit'sMom_@Sep 22 2004, 03:16 PM
> *Yes some breeders DNA test now, only a few do though.  It is expensive but worth it if you want to make absolutley for sure for sure that you are getting a purebred dog.  THey DNA test both parents to make sure they are PureBred Maltese.*


The AKC DNA testing program is mandatory for "Frequently Used Sires" and is also required for semen used in Frozen Semen Litters. A Frequently Used Sire is a male who has sired three litters. There is currently no requirement to perform DNA testing of the dam but it is a good practice (without both sire and dam DNA they cannot verify the full parentage of the pups). DNA testing costs $35 or $40 per dog.


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## Sanvean (May 17, 2004)

Ireland is notorious for puppy mills, so it is very possible that your friend's puppy is a mixed breed.


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sanvean_@Jan 9 2005, 11:11 AM
> *Ireland is notorious for puppy mills, so it is very possible that your friend's puppy is a mixed breed.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=28560*


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That's what I was thinking too. He just doesn't look like a Havanese. To me they look much more teddy bear like, and their dog has a face like a Shih Tzu. He is still adorable though.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I don't think your vet can identify if your friend's havanese is a pure bred through DNA testing. I may be wrong here but don't they need to record the genetic sequence of the breed so that they can compare it? I know DNA is used to verify correct parentage.

I find it odd that the puppy has both parents in Ireland. I would imagine this situation being ok if the sire was in ireland since the breeder used him as a stud. But if the puppy was purchased from Ireland, I would imagine the breeder will be keeping him or her for show. If it does not turn out, a reptuable breeder will usually take back the puppy and the breeder wouldn't have to sell as a pet.

If your breeder is listed on the AMA site, I will not worry about it not being pure bred. Most of the AMA breeders breed only one breed and they are as concernced about their reputation and breeding program as we are about getting a nice puppy.


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by CharmyPoo_@Jan 9 2005, 02:00 PM
> *I don't think your vet can identify if your friend's havanese is a pure bred through DNA testing.  I may be wrong here but don't they need to record the genetic sequence of the breed so that they can compare it?  I know DNA is used to verify correct parentage.
> 
> I find it odd that the puppy has both parents in Ireland.  I would imagine this situation being ok if the sire was in ireland since the breeder used him as a stud.  But if the puppy was purchased from Ireland, I would imagine the breeder will be keeping him or her for show.  If it does not turn out, a reptuable breeder will usually take back the puppy and the breeder wouldn't have to sell as a pet.
> ...


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I thought the situation sounded strange because the parents were both in Ireland, and the puppy was shipped to the US to the breeder's relative. The dog is not AKC registered, but does have some other registry (I just can't think of it now). I absolutely agree with your assessment regarding AMA breeders. I only wish the AKC would be more strict.


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## Sanvean (May 17, 2004)

But don't forget that sometimes a dog that doesn't look "purebred" can just the product of breeders who have no idea what the standard is









And people think my Macy -- who is a very well-bred Maltese -- is ALL sorts of things ... I've heard poodle (???), bichon, shih-tzu, you name it!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

one of the profs at the vet school asked if parker was a westie!!! at least he wasnt a vet. but i was shocked. the next time i saw him he seemed to be more informed about the breed.


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## Laceys mom (Nov 12, 2004)

I have had several people ask me is Lacey is a bichon? She looks nothing like one but because she is all white and they are a breed that is known more in my area people ask.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

People always ask if Mikey is a Yorkie...I look at him...and I don't see it LOL


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Maybe a white yorkie Jackie ! hahahaha


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I get asked what kind of Poodle Lady is all the time! I think it's the hair bows.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Jan 11 2005, 08:43 AM
> *I get asked what kind of Poodle Lady is all the time! I think it's the hair bows.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=28931*


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I hate it when Brink gets called a poodle!


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## Mystify79 (Apr 6, 2004)

Tuffy has been called a Bichon before.. but most of the people that haved called him that have never heard of Maltese before so I don't blame them.. especially when he's in a puppy cut. But when he had his long coat I would cringe when they'd call him a Bichon because he didn't look anything like a Bichon.


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

We've been called a westie, bichon, poodle, maltypoo, and just about everything else (including one incredibly stupid person who thought she was a bunny). But the worst was being called a yorkie. Huh?


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

Mostly people just ask what kind of puppies Sadie and Sassy are. Poor Jolie the Bichon has been called a poodle her whole life. Since Bichons have gotten more popular in the 10 years that we've had her, it isn't happening as often these days. Depending on the size of the dog and the cut that we keep our puppies in, and the type of hair that they have, I can see the poodle and bichon questions. I don't get the Westie at all!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

At least a Westie is another white dog! I really don't get the Maltese/Yorkie mix up!


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

Yeah, Marj - the Yorkie really is bizarre. I guess, tho, that the rabbit is the winner. I'd HAVE to ask if the person was on crack. LOL


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by msmagnolia_@Jan 11 2005, 11:39 PM
> *Yeah, Marj - the Yorkie really is bizarre.  I guess, tho, that the rabbit is the winner.  I'd HAVE to ask if the person was on crack.  LOL
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=29194*


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I think just out of it!!! My puppy jumps straight up and down, kind of like a bunny hop. It's the cutest thing.


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