# Lisi in for an ultra-sound



## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Lisi's liver enzymes keep slowly crawling up so her vet thought another US would be a sensible step. She is in this AM & will come home at lunch. We had to go to the speciality center as her vet's office no longer does these & we did not want to go back to the hospital where she had both of her surgeries. They did a great job both times for her, but it is not our happy place. She is doing, seemingly, great---not a huge tolerance for exercise, lots of sleeping, good appetite & still mostly a very happy little girl. She celebrated her 10 yrs b-day in early August---a milestone we could only pray for w/out much hope. She is a fighter & as long as she has that spirit & does this well we will fight w/and for her. Who knows what this little girl can do!!!!!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

The doctor from the Imaging Specialist just called & she says Lisi has gallstones! She suggested we consider removing the entire gallbladder as one is sitting in the duct. She will leave the decision & other options w/our vet (who is out this week). She suggested the same surgeon that did Lisi's other 2 operations. 
They think Lisi is about the cutest little pup they have ever had in there---she said they are reluctant to give her up but we can come & get her! I told you she makes people happy!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I did not mention that one gall-stone is lodged in the main bile duct!


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## maggie's mommy (Mar 12, 2006)

I hope that her gall bladder is not causing her any pain. I had mine out last September and I can still remember the terrible pain I was in. It was awful. Prayers Sandi that she will be deemed strong enough to undergo surgery to remove it. She is just such a special little pup.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I would say "yes, she has pain" but it is not constant as far as I can tell. She has yelped at times & is restless at night but I chalked all up to her cancer. She has been "hiding out" in our BR for a couple of months---I assumed because I keep it dark & it is cool. She is very itchy (sign of g-bladder issues) & lethargic---again I thought it was the cancer. The vet actually suggested the US to see if the cancer had spread to her liver as her liver enzymes were slowly creeping up. I tried the Ursidiol & it caused severe obstipation so I took her off it. It took about a month for her to regulate after that.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Sandi, reach out to Crystal. Before she lost Jett, I think I remember her saying he had something going on with his gall bladder but I could be wrong. Not sure it was stones, though, maybe "sludge."

Kisses to Lisi.


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## mylittleluna (Dec 19, 2017)

I hope it can be resolved quickly and without much pain for beautiful Lisi.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

maggieh said:


> Sandi, reach out to Crystal. Before she lost Jett, I think I remember her saying he had something going on with his gall bladder but I could be wrong. Not sure it was stones, though, maybe "sludge."
> 
> Kisses to Lisi.


Thank you Maggie---I did not know this so will follow up. Kitzi has sludge in his g-bladder too---his US showed it. We have not done anything about it---not really much that can be done. He is due next week for dental work up so am eager to see how he is doing. As they age it gets harder to read. What took Jett's life? My memory is fading more all the time, but I still drive!


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Poor Lisi. How is she doing today?


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

Wow...Im so sorry Lisi has this going on. I’m learning so much from you~ taking mental note since we are keeping eye on Lacies gallbladder. 
How is she doing today and what are you going to do?


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

She is actually doing better than she should be although I heard her "crying" off & on in the night. She seems to let down her guard when she is sleeping. She is so brave!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

maddysmom said:


> Wow...Im so sorry Lisi has this going on. I’m learning so much from you~ taking mental note since we are keeping eye on Lacies gallbladder.
> How is she doing today and what are you going to do?


Joannne, does she have sludge. I started treating Kitzi today since he has had it for a while & his vet does not offer any idea of what to do except "watch it & recheck enzyme values in a month." I started him on Liver Defense from AE. Per Crystal I will give it X 3 per day on empty stomach for 30 days & recheck. She uses another product w/it which I don't have yet & will have to research. After 30 days Jett was not clear so she gave him a couple of days rest & did a 2nd 30 days. Right now I just want Kitzi to be well enough to do his dental. He does blood work next week.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> Joannne, does she have sludge. I started treating Kitzi today since he has had it for a while & his vet does not offer any idea of what to do except "watch it & recheck enzyme values in a month." I started him on Liver Defense from AE. Per Crystal I will give it X 3 per day on empty stomach for 30 days & recheck. She uses another product w/it which I don't have yet & will have to research. After 30 days Jett was not clear so she gave him a couple of days rest & did a 2nd 30 days. Right now I just want Kitzi to be well enough to do his dental. He does blood work next week.


Lacies GI panel from Texas A&M and CBC indicated inflammation in her gallbladder but it could have been from her chronic pancreatitis. Its something we are going to keep an eye on for now. Something you said makeys me wonder if it is in fact gallbladder issues vs. Pancreatitis is that other than looking uncomfortable (true sign of her pancreatitis)she’s been very itchy and it seems to coincide with when she’s hunched or greasy stools. She goes for a recheck next month.I think she mentioned an ultrasound then. 
As far as supplements. I have used some which worsen her condition and others that helped, so I’m trying to be very careful these last few years. Sometimes less is better with her.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> She is actually doing better than she should be although I heard her "crying" off & on in the night. She seems to let down her guard when she is sleeping. She is so brave!


Poor baby. Sending my ❤ to sweet Lisi.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Joanne 2 ?---why TX A & M?
2. did she already do an abdominal US? If not, may I kindly suggest that you do that IF her liver enzymes are escalating, she is itchy, has greasy stools, refuses food at times, sometimes abdominal pain (Lisi's is not constant but intermittent). All this time I thought everything was because of the cancer---big mistake on my part. I did just get an email from her normal vet who is on holiday this week---wanting to know how I want to proceed. Because of the location of the "lodged stone" it is imperative that we do something before it becomes completely blocked. Since just removing it won't deal w/the other stones still in the g-bladder our only course of action is to remove the whole thing, I think. The question is ??? is she strong enough to do that now---it has to be done so I have to believe she will do ok. Yikes.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> Joanne 2 ?---why TX A & M?
> 2. did she already do an abdominal US? If not, may I kindly suggest that you do that IF her liver enzymes are escalating, she is itchy, has greasy stools, refuses food at times, sometimes abdominal pain (Lisi's is not constant but intermittent). All this time I thought everything was because of the cancer---big mistake on my part. I did just get an email from her normal vet who is on holiday this week---wanting to know how I want to proceed. Because of the location of the "lodged stone" it is imperative that we do something before it becomes completely blocked. Since just removing it won't deal w/the other stones still in the g-bladder our only course of action is to remove the whole thing, I think. The question is ??? is she strong enough to do that now---it has to be done so I have to believe she will do ok. Yikes.


Texas A&M is a yearly routine test we need to do for IBD. All those symptoms you described with the exception of being constantly itchy( which is new for us) is also symptoms of IBD/pancreatitis. There was a combination of elevated results which wld point towards gallbladder, which is why the followup visit. We didnt do the US at her checkup because we didnt have the results of her test. That said, it wasnt a huge concern with the IMS, so I haven’t worried about it. She has been spot on with everything with both Lacie and Suki for 7 years and she wasnt overly concerned.
As for Lisi, i wonder if they can remove her gallbladder doing laparoscopic surgery. Thats how they did my surgery 20 years ago. If thats the case, it wld be super easy on her little body, compared to cutting her open etc. i cant imagine the doctors not being able to do that. Look at the protein C test, compared to major biopsy, or even the pill they can give thats actually a camera to dx GI disease, inflammation and many more things in the gut. There has to be an easier way for her. Lets pray for laproscopic 🙏🏻 Did they mention that as an option?


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I have not yet spoken w/the surgeon---only today heard from Lisi's vet (the imaging doctor is the one who told me that it needs to come out--my normal vet is on holiday until Monday. She (my vet) wanted to know "how do you want to proceed?) In her defense she also has a new baby---she is the best vet around here! I will ask about laparoscopic ---I had thought about that. That is probably a ? for the surgeon who is at the ER clinic. She is a very busy surgeon so I may need my vet to pull some strings to get us in quickly. I really don't want it to wait until it becomes critical. I am praying our surgeon is not on holiday as I do not communicate well w/the other surgeon that they have there.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> I have not yet spoken w/the surgeon---only today heard from Lisi's vet (the imaging doctor is the one who told me that it needs to come out--my normal vet is on holiday until Monday. She (my vet) wanted to know "how do you want to proceed?) In her defense she also has a new baby---she is the best vet around here! I will ask about laparoscopic ---I had thought about that. That is probably a ? for the surgeon who is at the ER clinic. She is a very busy surgeon so I may need my vet to pull some strings to get us in quickly. I really don't want it to wait until it becomes critical. I am praying our surgeon is not on holiday as I do not communicate well w/the other surgeon that they have there.


Just doing a quick search brings up this website which says it can be done 🙏🏻 That would awesome and i would imagine a hole lot less money to do than the traditional surgery.








Laparoscopic Surgery - Vet in Wilsonville | Animal Care Clinic


Laparoscopic Surgery The future is here Laparoscopic Surgery The future is here




www.animalcarevets.com


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

I hope you can get laproscopic surgery for her. That would be less stress on the body.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

My vet is on holiday but just got another email from her---she will check w/the surgeon tomorrow to see if Lisi is a candidate for the surgery---is she too small? What about the cancer issue? I am off to bed as last night was hard.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

So I ended up giving Kitzel Metacam before bed last night & we ALL slept! My vet wrote this AM that she will be conferring w/Lisi's surgeon today about the possibility of a laparoscopic surgery for Lisi. She suggested for now that I start Kitzi on a liver detox (which I already did actually). She will talk w/the surgeon about him too, although at last US he did not have stones, only sludge. I am also going to look around for a small bite kibble that is low fat---if you know of anything PLEASE let me know ASAP. They are on the lamb/sweet potato/carrot from Solid Gold (only 1/8 cup in the AM)--but the bite is perfectly sized for Lisel's small mouth. It is 18% fat. They do get a bit of scrambled egg so I may have to do just the whites. At night they get S & C's dehydrated raw turkey patties & a veg---usually green beans or carrots. I do give them some uncooked green stuff as treats (celery, arugula, lettuce, mange tout, peppers)& of course their tsp. vanilla ice cream after their nightly walk (which I am discontinuing for now). 
One problem w/g-bladder surgery can be diarrhea, and since I have worked hard to get Lisi's weight up that is a bit concerning to me. 
Lisi's vet is concerned about her size for the lap surgery---she will let me know what the surgeon says.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> My vet is on holiday but just got another email from her---she will check w/the surgeon tomorrow to see if Lisi is a candidate for the surgery---is she too small? What about the cancer issue? I am off to bed as last night was hard.


I would think the opposite. It is way less invasive, tiny incisions. They basically cut it away and suck it out thru a tiny tube, this also includes stones or any blockages.
Hopefully the surgeon they use performs these. Are you at a specialty hospital?


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

edelweiss said:


> So I ended up giving Kitzel Metacam before bed last night & we ALL slept! My vet wrote this AM that she will be conferring w/Lisi's surgeon today about the possibility of a laparoscopic surgery for Lisi. She suggested for now that I start Kitzi on a liver detox (which I already did actually). She will talk w/the surgeon about him too, although at last US he did not have stones, only sludge. I am also going to look around for a small bite kibble that is low fat---if you know of anything PLEASE let me know ASAP. They are on the lamb/sweet potato/carrot from Solid Gold (only 1/8 cup in the AM)--but the bite is perfectly sized for Lisel's small mouth. It is 18% fat. They do get a bit of scrambled egg so I may have to do just the whites. At night they get S & C's dehydrated raw turkey patties & a veg---usually green beans or carrots. I do give them some uncooked green stuff as treats (celery, arugula, lettuce, mange tout, peppers)& of course their tsp. vanilla ice cream after their nightly walk (which I am discontinuing for now).
> One problem w/g-bladder surgery can be diarrhea, and since I have worked hard to get Lisi's weight up that is a bit concerning to me.
> Lisi's vet is concerned about her size for the lap surgery---she will let me know what the surgeon says.


Why lower fat? Push comes to shove, I used to use a pill splitter for Luck's kibble because it was too large for him. It only took a couple of minutes to cut up his food.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Fat is bad for g-bladder issues, Walter. 
I just opened a can of mercury tested tuna in water, and she just had 1/2 of an egg white. She is now happy in her bed.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Joanne, the surgeon is very knowledgeable ---trained at Angell Medical Center in Boston---did both of Lisi's other cancer surgeries. It is an ER clinic. I could go to A & M but have lost faith in them. If this surgeon is on holiday I may have to go to A & M, but don't want to.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

Sandi, 18% fat is not considered low fat. If that’s the range there are plenty of kibbles at that fat range. I hope your using the DMB calculator to figure out the exact fat content.
If not, this is easy one to use. Dry Matter Basis Calculator For Pet Food | PawDiet

I’m glad your in good hands with the surgeon. Anyone trained at Angels is excellent. That’s where my IMS is from.
Anyway, Suki was at 2 lbs when they did her biopsy by laparoscopic, so I would think Lisi weight won’t be an issue. I guess we will have to wait to find out 🤷🏻‍♀️


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

wkomorow said:


> Why lower fat? Push comes to shove, I used to use a pill splitter for Luck's kibble because it was too large for him. It only took a couple of minutes to cut up his food.


Walter, this is a good idea.
I used to use a food grinder for Lacie’s kibble.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

maddysmom said:


> Sandi, 18% fat is not considered low fat. If that’s the range there are plenty of kibbles at that fat range. I hope your using the DMB calculator to figure out the exact fat content.
> If not, this is easy one to use. Dry Matter Basis Calculator For Pet Food | PawDiet
> 
> I’m glad your in good hands with the surgeon. Anyone trained at Angels is excellent. That’s where my IMS is from.
> Anyway, Suki was at 2 lbs when they did her biopsy by laparoscopic, so I would think Lisi weight won’t be an issue. I guess we will have to wait to find out 🤷🏻‍♀️


Joanne, I know that but I never felt I had to worry about fat until this came up. I need a tiny kibble--although they only get 1/8 c. per day---Lisi can't manage a bigger one. I really don't want to have to cut it up or smash it. My life has enough complications w/out adding in this!


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Sandi, not sure if this might help, but our Laci, tiny Yorki is on Solid Gold Mighty Mini Salmon, with Lentils and other ingredients and it has only 6% Fat. I read where you said that you wanted to find something lower in Fat and perhaps you might want to look into that Variety of Solid Gold.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Snuggle's Mom said:


> Sandi, not sure if this might help, but our Laci, tiny Yorki is on Solid Gold Mighty Mini Salmon, with Lentils and other ingredients and it has only 6% Fat. I read where you said that you wanted to find something lower in Fat and perhaps you might want to look into that Variety of Solid Gold.


Thank you! I will look at this! Is it tiny like the one they are presently on?


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Sandi, why kibble? I use honest kitchen base mix and add cooked drained ground turkey. That way I can control the amount of fat and protein,


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

Snuggle's Mom said:


> Sandi, not sure if this might help, but our Laci, tiny Yorki is on Solid Gold Mighty Mini Salmon, with Lentils and other ingredients and it has only 6% Fat. I read where you said that you wanted to find something lower in Fat and perhaps you might want to look into that Variety of Solid Gold.


Thankyou…I remember someone mentioned this before but I couldn’t remember. I am going to try this as well since its both lowfat and fish, both something my girl can tolerate.

Hope this works for you Sandi.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

My concern is chick-pea flour---source of protein but some reviews think this has to do w/cardiomyopathy.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

maggieh said:


> Sandi, why kibble? I use honest kitchen base mix and add cooked drained ground turkey. That way I can control the amount of fat and protein,


Maggie, I have a pile of this but it is "mushy" & Kitzi has long ears so he is always a mess when he eats it. I may retry it.


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Solid Gold Mighty Mini Salmon that I previously mentioned is very tiny and our little Laci has no issues eating it. Also, Solid Gold makes another variety that our Chrissy is on due to low fat and protein; Solid Gold Blendz but the size is larger. However, our little Laci "stole" three pieces of Chrissy's food last night and did fine with it!!! I am going to ask my Vet about the concern that you mentioned about the chick-pea flour as well.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Snuggle's Mom said:


> Solid Gold Mighty Mini Salmon that I previously mentioned is very tiny and our little Laci has no issues eating it. Also, Solid Gold makes another variety that our Chrissy is on due to low fat and protein; Solid Gold Blendz but the size is larger. However, our little Laci "stole" three pieces of Chrissy's food last night and did fine with it!!! I am going to ask my Vet about the concern that you mentioned about the chick-pea flour as well.


I love the only 6% fat!


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> Maggie, I have a pile of this but it is "mushy" & Kitzi has long ears so he is always a mess when he eats it. I may retry it.


I cut up stockings and my girls wear it like a headband to keep the food out of the face.
The reviews on dog food advisors are very good on that particular kibble. It’s actually 9% fat on a DMB because it doesn’t give the maximum fat percentage but still low. I’m going to try it. I need backup for Lacie. She is highly allergic to all proteins with the exception of a few fish products. I wouldn’t worry about the flour. Thats the least of your worries right now, unless of course your fluffs are allergic.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I am a bit concerned about the chicken fat too as my dogs don't do too well w/that, but I am ordering the Solid Gold Blendz in the smallest package to see if Lisi can manage the size. I also like it that there is no pea flour in it. My cardiologist said it is better for Kitzi to avoid that as much as possible. Let me know how you do.
Yesterday I did a mix similar to this (home made) & they loved it.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

So research is good. The one they are on (Lamb) also has chicken fat in it!  
I am ordering the Blendz & if that is too big I will go to the Salmon small bite. The protein & fat are both lower than what they are on so that is good. Thank you "Snuggle' Mom"!!!!! To be continued! I love SM.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> I am a bit concerned about the chicken fat too as my dogs don't do too well w/that, but I am ordering the Solid Gold Blendz in the smallest package to see if Lisi can manage the size. I also like it that there is no pea flour in it. My cardiologist said it is better for Kitzi to avoid that as much as possible. Let me know how you do.
> Yesterday I did a mix similar to this (home made) & they loved it.


Yes…that (chicken fat) is a concern with me too. In fact after sleeping on it, im going to pass on trying it. Whats with the pea flour. Lacie’s cardiologist never mentioned a word about food.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Joanne, my own personal feeling is that vets are not nutritionists! They are too busy trying to fix stuff rather than looking at the "why things go wrong." Mostly they are not too scientific & don't have the expertise or time to get involved. I don't blame them---they do their best. Vet school is not big on nutrition. My cardio is excellent & from the get go has encouraged me to consider a change in food from what she calls "boutique food." She has seen lots of dogs w/cardio issues who have been fed grain free. The jury is still out on whether it is the "grain free", lack of taurine or the pea flour that is often used in grain free. It may be one or none or a combo of all these things---research has not been presented that is conclusive. So we, the consumers (owners), are left to scramble & find what works for our tribe--as for what works for one may not work for another.
Don't you wish we got paid by the hour for our research?


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

On another note---I gave BOTH dogs metacam before bed last night (pre-dosed syringe from vet) &WOW, we all slept! 2 nights sleep in a row & I am feeling like I could run a marathon!


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

FYI for those who give their Dogs food with Chicken, I learned from a very reliable source that Turkey is a better choice and is easier to digest than Chicken.
Glad that you will be ordering Solid Gold Blendz and it really is not all that big Kibble. If our little 2 1/2 lb Laci can chew it, hopefully Lisi won't have any problems with it. Both the Solid Gold Blendz and the Solid Gold Mighty Mini Salmon are low in fat.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> Joanne, my own personal feeling is that vets are not nutritionists! They are too busy trying to fix stuff rather than looking at the "why things go wrong." Mostly they are not too scientific & don't have the expertise or time to get involved. I don't blame them---they do their best. Vet school is not big on nutrition. My cardio is excellent & from the get go has encouraged me to consider a change in food from what she calls "boutique food." She has seen lots of dogs w/cardio issues who have been fed grain free. The jury is still out on whether it is the "grain free", lack of taurine or the pea flour that is often used in grain free. It may be one or none or a combo of all these things---research has not been presented that is conclusive. So we, the consumers (owners), are left to scramble & find what works for our tribe--as for what works for one may not work for another.
> Don't you wish we got paid by the hour for our research?


yes…i do wish we got paid for our research!!
I agree that vets know nothing about nutrition. Thats one of the reasons i have stuck with our IMS. She treats each dog individually and actually knows alot about nutrition. I would consider her an alternative doctor.
My biggest question is “why is it years ago we fed our dogs Alpo, mighty dog, over vaccinated, zodiac for flea control and they lived a long full life without issues?”


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## Coster (Oct 26, 2015)

Just saw your posting, Poor Lisi! I hope she is okay! Try to get laparoscopic surgery, I know my vet wouldn’t do it but I would have to go to a specialist back when I asked when they had Cody’s tumor out and ended up doing regular surgery. What a beautiful brave girl! I feel so bad for her and you! Lisi is such a trooper she’s gone through so much and still has such a beautiful personality! My prayers are with you and her every day!


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

I thought of Lisi when shopping tonight. Have you used this line before Adorned beast. This particular herb slows cancer supposedly.
Turkey Tail Mushrooms | Liquid Double ExtractDefault Title


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## lil Chloe and Lou (Feb 6, 2021)

maddysmom said:


> Lacies GI panel from Texas A&M and CBC indicated inflammation in her gallbladder but it could have been from her chronic pancreatitis. Its something we are going to keep an eye on for now. Something you said makeys me wonder if it is in fact gallbladder issues vs. Pancreatitis is that other than looking uncomfortable (true sign of her pancreatitis)she’s been very itchy and it seems to coincide with when she’s hunched or greasy stools. She goes for a recheck next month.I think she mentioned an ultrasound then.
> As far as supplements. I have used some which worsen her condition and others that helped, so I’m trying to be very careful these last few years. Sometimes less is better with her.


Your kids look so sweet, I hope she will be okay. Thoughts & healthy kid wishes sent.❤🐾❤🐾


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

lil Chloe and Lou said:


> Your kids look so sweet, I hope she will be okay. Thoughts & healthy kid wishes sent.❤🐾❤🐾


Thanku ❤


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

maddysmom said:


> I thought of Lisi when shopping tonight. Have you used this line before Adorned beast. This particular herb slows cancer supposedly.
> Turkey Tail Mushrooms | Liquid Double ExtractDefault Title


No, I haven't, but Crystal told me to try their liver detox or AE, which I had already started for both Kitzi & Lisi. I will look into it---thanks Joanne! We should start a practice together. I think our minds work alike! & you are nice!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Coster said:


> Just saw your posting, Poor Lisi! I hope she is okay! Try to get laparoscopic surgery, I know my vet wouldn’t do it but I would have to go to a specialist back when I asked when they had Cody’s tumor out and ended up doing regular surgery. What a beautiful brave girl! I feel so bad for her and you! Lisi is such a trooper she’s gone through so much and still has such a beautiful personality! My prayers are with you and her every day!


I am working on the laparoscopic angle---should know by next week, hopefully! Thank you so very much for your prayers. I think a lot of what I have been blaming on her cancer may be due to the g-bladder! That would be good news.


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

maddysmom said:


> Yes…that (chicken fat) is a concern with me too. In fact after sleeping on it, im going to pass on trying it. Whats with the pea flour. Lacie’s cardiologist never mentioned a word about food.



There are some reports that some dogs when feed a grain-free diet that relies on pea protein can develop DCM and heart murmurs. The number of cases is small, and preliminary evidence points to developing a taurine deficiency. Currently, it is believed this happens only in the cases of dogs on grain-free. Despite research, there is so much we do not know about nutrition and health, and every individual is different. Food has weird effects on the body. I can eat starches fine (bread, pasta, potatoes, etc.), but if I eat bread stuffing, I literally gain 2 pounds which I keep on for a week.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

wkomorow said:


> There are some reports that some dogs when feed a grain-free diet that relies on pea protein can develop DCM and heart murmurs. The number of cases is small, and preliminary evidence points to developing a taurine deficiency. Currently, it is believed this happens only in the cases of dogs on grain-free. Despite research, there is so much we do not know about nutrition and health, and every individual is different. Food has weird effects on the body. I can eat starches fine (bread, pasta, potatoes, etc.), but if I eat bread stuffing, I literally gain 2 pounds which I keep on for a week.


Walter, the DCM connections has been quietly "walked back" by subsequent FDA statements which were far less publicized: FDA Finds No Evidence that Grain-Free Diets Are Causing Canine Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM)









DCM and grain-free pet foods: 3 strikes and you’re out!


A new, flawed study has DCM and grain-free pet foods in the news again, yet it proves no diet-related causes for DCM, nor does it eliminate any.



www.petfoodindustry.com













Review of canine dilated cardiomyopathy in the wake of diet-associated concerns


Abstract. Dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) has been in the literature and news because of the recent opinion-based journal articles and public releases by regulator




academic.oup.com





The third link is to a comprehensive peer-reviewed article in the Journal of Animal Science that presents a lengthy discussion of DCM and also points out the fallacies presented by the initial FDA reports, including sampling bias and disregarding genetic links to DCM. I find this information and research to be far more trustworthy that dog-food-company sponsored "studies" lacking control groups that are fed to the FDA (no pun intended.)


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

That is good to know! Thanks.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

wkomorow said:


> There are some reports that some dogs when feed a grain-free diet that relies on pea protein can develop DCM and heart murmurs. The number of cases is small, and preliminary evidence points to developing a taurine deficiency. Currently, it is believed this happens only in the cases of dogs on grain-free. Despite research, there is so much we do not know about nutrition and health, and every individual is different. Food has weird effects on the body. I can eat starches fine (bread, pasta, potatoes, etc.), but if I eat bread stuffing, I literally gain 2 pounds which I keep on for a week.


Thanks Walter. I thought all those theories were squashed and from what Maggie just posted, they were.
So…for Sandi, I wouldn’t worry so much on that if I were you. Just find a lower fat food they can tolerate and hope for laparoscopic surgery.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I am amazed at how the Metacam has helped both L & K the last few nights! We are actually sleeping & this morning Lisi woke up sort of playful! This just shows me that both have pain in the night. Metacam is supposed to be good for 24 hrs. I don't think it lasts quite that long---at least not w/my pups, but it is a god-send for the moment. Here is hoping my vet is on the ball tomorrow when she comes back to work.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> I am amazed at how the Metacam has helped both L & K the last few nights! We are actually sleeping & this morning Lisi woke up sort of playful! This just shows me that both have pain in the night. Metacam is supposed to be good for 24 hrs. I don't think it lasts quite that long---at least not w/my pups, but it is a god-send for the moment. Here is hoping my vet is on the ball tomorrow when she comes back to work.


What are the side effects of Metacam? Dont you worry that it could worsen the condition? Idk…I am kinda antidrug for me and my fluffs, so i would worry but thats just me. Im weird like that 🤷🏻‍♀️
p.s im not judging you…just curious


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

maddysmom said:


> What are the side effects of Metacam? Dont you worry that it could worsen the condition? Idk…I am kinda antidrug for me and my fluffs, so i would worry but thats just me. Im weird like that 🤷🏻‍♀️
> p.s im not judging you…just curious


ALL drugs have side effects & I let things get really bad before reaching for those, both for the pups & for myself! I could not stand to see them in such pain & I was on the edge of what I could manage w/the vet out for the week. Lisi was "crying in her sleep" & Kitzi was pacing, panting & scratching the sheets up. I did feel guilty that I did not want to stay away (due to exhaustion) but I was grateful to have the meds on the other hand. So in answer to your question---YES!


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> ALL drugs have side effects & I let things get really bad before reaching for those, both for the pups & for myself! I could not stand to see them in such pain & I was on the edge of what I could manage w/the vet out for the week. Lisi was "crying in her sleep" & Kitzi was pacing, panting & scratching the sheets up. I did feel guilty that I did not want to stay away (due to exhaustion) but I was grateful to have the meds on the other hand. So in answer to your question---YES!


Im sorry they are in so much pain. I know how tiring their health can be on you. Hopefully you will hear from your surgeon and get her surgery done asap.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

maddysmom said:


> Im sorry they are in so much pain. I know how tiring their health can be on you. Hopefully you will hear from your surgeon and get her surgery done asap.


The meds take the edge off---very minimal amount.
I just came off a 3 wk trip helping our daughter move into her condo in MD. & also to another apt. in VA on the campus where she will be starting seminary (yes, two places to live). It is complicated so don't try to make sense of it---but it was a lot of work! I then came home to our garden/yard to try & play catch up w/all that did not get done while away.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> The meds take the edge off---very minimal amount.
> I just came off a 3 wk trip helping our daughter move into her condo in MD. & also to another apt. in VA on the campus where she will be starting seminary (yes, two places to live). It is complicated so don't try to make sense of it---but it was a lot of work! I then came home to our garden/yard to try & play catch up w/all that did not get done while away.


She very lucky to have you ❤


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

This is part of a msg. that came from my vet today who had spoken w/the surgeon:
"lets recheck her liver values. She (the surgeon) said unless one of them (the total bilirubin) is severely elevated, we don't usually take them to surgery as it can't be done laparoscopically and is not necessarily a benign surgery (and with her history of other intestinal surgeries!). " I am not sure what that means exactly so wrote for clarification. I wrote back that I don't know exactly what she means, although I prefer to not do surgery & will bring Lisi Thurs. for more tests. She wrote back to explain but I also did not understand what she was trying to say. She did suggest we see the IS again & I told her why I don't want to do that. She wrote that she will do it for me so I don't have to deal w/her! Yay!


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> This is part of a msg. that came from my vet today who had spoken w/the surgeon:
> "lets recheck her liver values. She (the surgeon) said unless one of them (the total bilirubin) is severely elevated, we don't usually take them to surgery as it can't be done laparoscopically and is not necessarily a benign surgery (and with her history of other intestinal surgeries!). " I am not sure what that means exactly so wrote for clarification. I wrote back that I don't know exactly what she means, although I prefer to not do surgery & will bring Lisi Thurs. for more tests. She wrote back to explain but I also did not understand what she was trying to say. She did suggest we see the IS again & I told her why I don't want to do that. She wrote that she will do it for me so I don't have to deal w/her! Yay!


Sounds like the surgeon doesn’t want to do surgery unless bilirubin is elevated, so is it? I can’t imagine Lisi bloodwork changing that much in a week or two‘s time or was that specific test not done.
Also, I wonder why she said they don’t laparoscopic surgery when one of the articles I posted said it most certainly can be done, though your vet did mention “ history of other intestinal surgeries” 
What does IS mean?


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Sorry my brain is not working so well today. I have had fairly severe equilibrium problems last night & today. If it continues I will be the one who has to see a specialist (neurologist).  I will give it a day or two to work itself out.
She has not yet seen the surgeon. She had slightly elevated ALT & ALP & AST, GGT in late June--Her Reticulocytes were also elevated, platelets were high, Creatine Kinase was high, Bilirubin conjugated was right on the line to being elevated (so w/in normal range). This is when she started "to hide out" in the BR all day (not her usual habit ever). The vet & I talked about just repeating her test in a month as the vet thought maybe the cancer could be slowly spreading to the liver. So I will be taking her in for a blood draw Thursday when Kitzi does his for his pre-dental. 
Today we got the new food, Solid Gold Blendz & Lisi LOVES it. (Thank you Snuggles Mom). It is a bit bigger than the other one but she can eat it as it is flat! Kitzi liked it too.


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Sandi, I am sorry they are having such problems. Thank goodness they are getting a bit of relief from their pain.


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

edelweiss said:


> Sorry my brain is not working so well today. I have had fairly severe equilibrium problems last night & today. If it continues I will be the one who has to see a specialist (neurologist).  I will give it a day or two to work itself out.
> She has not yet seen the surgeon. She had slightly elevated ALT & ALP & AST, GGT in late June--Her Reticulocytes were also elevated, platelets were high, Creatine Kinase was high, Bilirubin conjugated was right on the line to being elevated (so w/in normal range). This is when she started "to hide out" in the BR all day (not her usual habit ever). The vet & I talked about just repeating her test in a month as the vet thought maybe the cancer could be slowly spreading to the liver. So I will be taking her in for a blood draw Thursday when Kitzi does his for his pre-dental.
> Today we got the new food, Solid Gold Blendz & Lisi LOVES it. (Thank you Snuggles Mom). It is a bit bigger than the other one but she can eat it as it is flat! Kitzi liked it too.


I glad she likes the new food. Sorry you are having vertigo.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> Sorry my brain is not working so well today. I have had fairly severe equilibrium problems last night & today. If it continues I will be the one who has to see a specialist (neurologist).  I will give it a day or two to work itself out.
> She has not yet seen the surgeon. She had slightly elevated ALT & ALP & AST, GGT in late June--Her Reticulocytes were also elevated, platelets were high, Creatine Kinase was high, Bilirubin conjugated was right on the line to being elevated (so w/in normal range). This is when she started "to hide out" in the BR all day (not her usual habit ever). The vet & I talked about just repeating her test in a month as the vet thought maybe the cancer could be slowly spreading to the liver. So I will be taking her in for a blood draw Thursday when Kitzi does his for his pre-dental.
> Today we got the new food, Solid Gold Blendz & Lisi LOVES it. (Thank you Snuggles Mom). It is a bit bigger than the other one but she can eat it as it is flat! Kitzi liked it too.


That makes total sense now. All these levels that were elevated with Lisi , especially the GGT was high with Lacie. Though like I said, our IMS just wants to watch for now. I will know more after next visit.
So maybe, and hopefully Lisi won’t need the surgery after all 🙏🏻


edelweiss said:


> She had slightly elevated ALT & ALP & AST, GGT in late June--Her Reticulocytes were also elevated, platelets were high


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

And I’m sorry your not feeling good. Maybe the change in weather after your trip or allergies is causing your balance to be off. Sending you a big lovable hug ❤


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

I just finished reading all of the posts from Sandi and was so very sorry that she herself was not feeling all that well. And with all of those issues going on with little Lisi, that just adds to her own medical problems. Glad that the Solid Gold Blendz arrived and that Lisi is eating it. Yes, I am aware that the Kibble is larger, but happy that Lisi can manage it. Hope that it helps!!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I am not out of the woods yet but doing much better! Thank you!
I am adding in some of the Solid Gold Bendz w/the other to accustom them to the new kibble---it does make her poo smell worse!  but that is a small price to pay if it helps..
The vet is trying to help us decide on a plan. I take both K & L for blood work on Thursday & hopefully that will let us know more. I am doing what I know to do best to help them. My vet said it is ok to continue w/the pain meds until we get a plan in place. She wants them to be as comfortable as possible.


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Just checking how things are going with you, Lisi, and Kitzi Sandi??? How is Lisi doing with the Solid Gold Blendz?? Hope that she still likes it and is doing well with it?


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Snuggle's Mom said:


> Just checking how things are going with you, Lisi, and Kitzi Sandi??? How is Lisi doing with the Solid Gold Blendz?? Hope that she still likes it and is doing well with it?


Thank you for asking!
I am still mixing it w/Mighty Might Gold---slowly changing over so as not to cause upset. So far ok---she is still pretty itchy. I just got an approval (pre-dental) for Kitzi for next Mon. & waiting to hear how liver values are for Lisi.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Lisi's liver values are in:'ALT 479 & ALP 682 slowly climbing still from 2 months ago at ALT 285 & ALP 452. Bilirubin is normal!
She is still itchy! At the end of October 2020 she was ALT 66 & ALP 190. 
The vet is looking for something holistic to use in place of the Ursodiol.


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## Coster (Oct 26, 2015)

Hi, sorry to see Lisi values increased, I am sure you give her denamarin already. I hope the vet can find something else to help her. I know their are other drugs but Cody never was on them to give a opinion. Also to hear to she’s still itchy. Maybe wash the area few times a day where she’s most itchy with cold water to cool it down. I just thought of something, Cody takes AllerG-3 03 Omega Capsules by VetOne. It consists of Fish Oil and Vitamins to support skin and coat in dogs. The ingredients: fish oil, beef Aspic,glycerin,water, vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A, Palmitate,and Vitamin D3 supplement.it’s a gel capsule. I break it open and syringe feed it to him cause it’s kinda large. Cody takes this every other day. Ask your vet and see if this will calm it down alittle for some relief. Poor Lisi. She’s such a sweetheart!!!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I think the itchiness is from the gall bladder. I did just write to my vet to ask it taking her off regular milk thistle drops & putting her on the chewable of the one you recommend would be better. Thank you for the great idea.


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## Coster (Oct 26, 2015)

Hi, the denamarin pill the one Cody takes is a blue pill and they say to give on a empty stomach. The AllerG-3 03 Omega Capsules by VetOne is a separate pill he takes that I mentioned before which is a fish oil pill just to calm down the itchiness. I just want to clarify. I have a good feeling the denamarin pill would benefit Lisi so much more. Such a fantastic Mom!!!!!! She’s so Lucky to have you! Hope your feeling better as well!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Thank you---I am feeling a bit better tonight (has been going on a week already) & ate a bit---was living on ginger-ale & crackers. I could not imagine yesterday ever being able to eat again w/all the vomiting. ---not a good way to lose weight. The pups LOVE having me lie in bed w/them. Kitzi has been resource guarding me---threatening Dwt. if he comes to move him---he realizes that this is not the normal me.


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Sandi,

You are having such a rough time, I am so sorry. I am surprised that Lisi's values continue to rise. Help, what does vet vet think is causing the increase, denamarin should have brought the values down if it was live r related. Does she think it is from the digestive track?


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Hey Walter---I just had her on milk thistle drops but am asking vet for chewable denamarin. I don't know why she was not put on that when her enzymes began to climb---I added the milk thistle myself. The vet comes back tomorrow & Kitzi goes for his dental so maybe we can finally talk. Dwt. will drive us since I can not drive yet. The vet has a new baby so is off fairly often. Thankfully she emailed me Lisi's results from home, but I need a "face to face" to ask some questions. She is looking for a holistic med to replace Ursodiol that did now work for Lisi.

I started both K & L on Solid Gold Blendz for the AM feeding---lower fat & protein. It will take another week to move them completely over from Mighty Might Lamb.


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Just checking to see how little Kitzi and Lisi are doing Sandi??? We haven't heard much for you for the last several days. I believe the Kitizi was supposed to have had his Dental about a week or so ago. And how are they doing on the Solid Gold Holistic Blendz??


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Sorry, this got dropped as I had vertigo for almost 10 days---I could never be a drunk! It was awful. I will see (finally got an appt) an ENT this next week. Pups are still slowly changing food. Lisi has had a few (gas) issues so I am going very slowly. She either got stung by something or got a chemical burn from someones lawn & has had a bad rash & swelling around the outside of the vaginal area so we are working on getting that well. Kitzi had to have a broken tooth cut out in bits & took antibiotics for 10 days but is doing great. He does tire easily & isn't opposed to joining Lisi sometimes in the stroller for part of his walk. Lisi's vet got a homeopathic med for her to try in place of the Ursodiol but I have not started it yet---& won't until her rash is gone. I am trying to get her well enough to do her dental. Thank you for asking!


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Sandi, I cannot tell you very sorry that you too have not been feeling all that well on top of taking care of your two little ones. And from what I have heard, Vertigo is not something that I would not wish on anyone. Hopefully the ENT will be able to help you and glad that you were finally able to get an appointment.
And poor Lisi, yet another issue to contend with as well. Hopefully she will begin to feel better with her latest malady. Is there anything that you can give her to make her feel more comfortable?? Glad to see that both Kizi and Lisi are still doing well with the Solid Gold Holistic Blendz and that continue to do so. Not sure what the Gas come from? Looks as though Kitzi also had an issue and had to lose a Tooth and thank goodness the meds helped him and that he doing better. Please take care of yourself Sandi and hope that you start to feel better soon!!


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