# $600 little or a lot



## puppy_luv4life

ok well i'm getting a FEMALE maltese puppy and shes selling her for 600 dollars... of course i don't think its a lot but my dad does and hes the one buying her for my birthday........ i say its not alot because out of all the places i've searched the puppys were like 1,000s of dollars!and 600 is good right?? what do yall think?

also.... how much did yall get yalls for??


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## triste

I got my Oliver for 325$. I will say that he didn't come from a fancy breeder though. Some people will say you get what you pay for...but I love my baby...even if he isn't "show" quality and he may have a sneer and his ears are crooked


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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by Triste_@Apr 10 2005, 12:45 PM
> *I got my Oliver for 325$.  I will say that he didn't come from a fancy breeder though. Some people will say you get what you pay for...but I love my baby...even if he isn't "show" quality and he may have a sneer and his ears are crooked
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humm......THATS A GOOD DEAL... do u live in texas.... lol


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## triste

umm...no.







I live in Indiana and got my Oliver in Ohio(we live near the border). If people only kept their perfect human babies, our population in this world would dwindle down majorly....My baby is perfect to me.


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## miko's mommy

puppy_luv4life,

No, I don't think its too much for a maltese. In fact, I think its too little. Maltese puppies are normally very expensive. And I think its important to buy from a great breeder to minimize the problems you will have later on with health or behavior issues. I know that you really want a puppy, but puppies are expensive and if they are sold cheaply, its likely that they will have expensive problems later on. We bought our little boy for only $900 but he now needs surgery that will cost $3,000.


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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by okw_@Apr 10 2005, 01:13 PM
> *puppy_luv4life,
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> No, I don't think its too much for a maltese.  In fact, I think its too little. Maltese puppies are normally very expensive.  And I think its important to buy from a great breeder to minimize the problems you will have later on with health or behavior issues.  I know that you really want a puppy, but puppies are expensive and if they are sold cheaply, its likely that they will have expensive problems later on.  We bought our little boy for only $900 but he now needs surgery that will cost $3,000.
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what happened??? i got the info from a freind... she bought 3 maltese from the lady i'm planing to get my $600 one and shes had them for about a year and no problems had accord but... u never know....


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## triste

I am going to back out of this discussion now as I have strong feelings about this. Take care ya'll!


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## miko's mommy

> _Originally posted by Triste_@Apr 10 2005, 02:34 PM
> *I am going to back out of this discussion now as I have strong feelings about this. Take care ya'll!
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Triste,

I hope you are not offended. I feel upset by all we have to deal with our dog and I blame his breeder for it. I never meant it as a personal attack. I just hate putting my baby though surgery for a genetic cause that could have been prevented if only the breeder was more responsible.


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## sheila2182

> _Originally posted by Triste_@Apr 10 2005, 03:45 PM
> *...but I love my baby...even if he isn't "show" quality and he may have a sneer and his ears are crooked
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And thats "ALL" that matters in my book


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## sheila2182

I have a Maltese/Bichon -Bailey and a Maltese- Kirbie.I didnt pay over $1000.00 for either of them .I also have a Maltese- Lamby,who I have no idea what she cost as she is a rescue.Although The lady that rescued her and I susspect she came from the higher Maltese lines.
You just have to understand that sometimes not always that the more you pay seems to indecate that the lines have been breed better to rule out health problems.Although I know thats not always true,sometimes ones that have been very expensive also have health issues.I guess what Im trying to say is,do your research on the breed and know the health issues and then buy what you can afford.As long as you are aware that there might be health problems down the road, that may cost you alot of money.
I love all my babies and think everyone will do the best for their's. No matter if its a junkyard dog or one that has a long pedigree.You just need to be aware of all the pros and cons.
Good luck with your puppy should you get her and keep us all posted.


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## k/c mom

This surely has to be #1 most volitile subject we talk about here on SM. I think people can easily be offended when no offense is meant. This forum is an opportunity for us to share ideas and educate each other. Obviously we all love our babies dearly, no matter what they look like or how close or far they are from the breed standard. That really is not the point. The point is that buying a Maltese should not be taken lightly. Money saved now will likely result in more money spent (on medical bills) later. There is a lot more to purchasing a Maltese than meets the eye.


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## msmagnolia

I would suggest that you read and read and read this board before you buy any puppy. See the types of experiences that people have had with maltese and pay special attention to the health and care requirements. After you've done lots of reading, if you still want a maltese then begin your search. While it may be true that you don't have to spend thousands of dollars for a puppy, it is also NOT the time to try and save money. There are lots of discussions about where to buy puppies, but my opinion is that the quality of your breeder is a lot more important than the price that you have to pay. It may take a while to find a breeder that will meet your price requirements AND provide the type of breeding experience that will produce healthy puppies. This is really important. If your dad thinks that the cost of the puppy is high, what will you do if your puppy ends up needing a big surgery, or lifelong medical attention due to a congenital health condition? Please go slowly and do a LOT of research. 

Good luck with your search....there are lots of people here who can help you with specific questions.


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## Tyler's Sis

Um, we got ours for 1000.







But we knew that he was _the_ one and we had to get him. So he really turned out to be _the_ one.


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## charmypoo

The price doesn't determine the quality of a puppy. Unlike material goods, more expensive doesn't mean better. You can pay $300 and have a perfect pet or you can pay $3000 and have a perfect pet. You can also pay $3000 and have a terrible sickly pet or $300 and have a poor quality pet.

It is about doing the research and learning about the breeder. You have to learn to understand the home where they are coming from.

I wanted specific lines with specific looks. I was willing to pay a little more to get that. I paid $1200 for Cookie (the breeder discounted from $1500 because I was a student and didn't have enough). Nibbler was $1500. Sparkle was more because she is a show potential with full registration but I have a special arrangement with the breeder.


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## miko's mommy

As I said, I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone (and I did apologize to Triste). My knee jerk reaction now is to say what K/C's mom and Msmagnolia said...which is that buying a puppy shouldn't be about saving money. I didn't know this when we were looking and I just thought that if I warn someone else (now that I do know), I would be doing somebody a favor. I hope that no one else reading my posts will take offense either. I am sure plenty of people paid less than $1000 and haven't had problems. However, I am also certain that there are lots of people like me out there (who paid less than $1000 and are having problems and who are not posting and who I see at the vets offices with pets with problems).


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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by okw_@Apr 10 2005, 03:12 PM
> *As I said, I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone (and I did apologize to Triste).  My knee jerk reaction now is to say what K/C's mom and Msmagnolia said...which is that buying a puppy shouldn't be about saving money.  I didn't know this when we were looking and I just thought that if I warn someone else (now that I do know), I would be doing somebody a favor.  I hope that no one else reading my posts will take offense either.  I am sure plenty of people paid less than $1000 and haven't had problems.  However, I am also certain that there are lots of people like me out there (who paid less than $1000 and are having problems and who are not posting and who I see at the vets offices with pets with problems).
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is it a SERIOSE problem?? ..... did you see where they were keeping there maltese and talk with the breeder face to face and ask her questions such as... Is there a genitec desise? ect.... and make sure they're not lying and they have a safe puuppy invorment where they keep the puppys((which should be in the house)) ........... it think when i go and see her and talk to her in person and meet the puppys i will know .......


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## MalteseJane

The more I read the more I am inclined NOT to buy another dog after Alex. THERE IS NO GARANTY that your puppy will be disease free either way, reputable breeder or back yard breeder. I paid 400 $ for him. And I cannot really complain about Alex's health. He is almost 8 years old and has not had a major illness. Most of my vet bills go to prevention. His ruptured cruciate ligament surgery was more due to him climbing the baby gate and running crazy along the fence when the neighboors dogs are out then to his luxating patella. Luxating patella is very common in small breeds and a lot of them are not affected by it. All those so called reputable breeders asking for astronomical prices for their puppies are part of the problem that puppy mills can exist and make money. What are poor people to do if they want a dog ? Are dogs only for rich people ? We are part of the problem too, agreeing to pay such prices for PET dogs. Sorry if I offend some people here.


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## paris'mom

In my humble opinion, I don't think that purchasing a life-long companion (or for the next 12-17 years) is something that I want to look for the best value in... I feel that the investment you make today makes a difference where a breeder has been careful in choosing the breeding program, DNA testing, and making sure that serious defects are not being passed on to the next generation. When all careful breeding is a part of the breeder's program, the cost of the puppy will go up too - as it will cost breeder money to ensure a certain standard. 

A lot of us here on SM have chosen our kids very carefully and in exchange, paid a good bit of money for our kids too. However, every one of us will tell you that our kids are worth every cent of that big check. 

If your father is reluctant to pay $600 for the puppy, how will he be when the time comes to pay that $2k vet bill in case the puppy has problems? Food for thought... Imagine how heart broken you will be if the puppy needs to be put to sleep because of health problems and (im just assuming here) you don't have the money to pay for it yourself and your parents don't want to pay. I held off getting a dog until I am stable on my own because I know that my father would never consider paying medical procedures over 1K for an animal. 

Whatever decision you come to, I wish you lots of luck and happiness


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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by Paris'Mom_@Apr 10 2005, 03:40 PM
> *If your father is reluctant to pay $600 for the puppy, how will he be when the time comes to pay that $2k vet bill in case the puppy has problems?  Food for thought...  Imagine how heart broken you will be if the puppy needs to be put to sleep because of health problems and (im just assuming here) you don't have the money to pay for it yourself and your parents don't want to pay.  I held off getting a dog until I am stable on my own because I know that my father would never consider paying medical procedures over 1K for an animal.
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i dout my dad (knowing him) will make the dog be put to sleep becuase of the high pet bill but you never know... i think he'll find a way for me to pay it off weather it be LOTS AND LOTS of never ending chores or earning the money or doing who knows what he'll come up with but thats just what i think.....

after i told him that it was a pretty good deal and that most are 1000s of $s he was still iffy and then i showd and told him about the posts on this decusion fourm and he was like "well... i'll talk to your mom" and my mom wants me to get the dog so i bet she'll talk him into it....... anyways.... i understand fully thats the puppy is MY COMPLETE resposability and they know i do and i would do anything to help her and NOTHING to hurt her........ so....... I've done and doing LOTS of research!! and one sight said of there making/wanting you to pay 100s of $s for it then there not worth it and also there is no such thing as tea cut malteses and not to buy one if the breeder calls them that.... just a little edvise..... lol...... TTYL! buh bi!


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## puppylucy

jw, how old are you?


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## miko's mommy

> _Originally posted by MalteseJane_@Apr 10 2005, 04:34 PM
> *What are poor people to do if they want a dog ? Are dogs only for rich people ? We are part of the problem too, agreeing to pay such prices for PET dogs. Sorry if I offend some people here.
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I think its a good question. I don't know, I guess I go back and fourth. We certainly couldn't affort to pay more than $1000. But then again, we are having trouble paying for all of Miko's vet bills. So maybe we should have never had a dog. I think people should also consider shelters. Seeing that this was my first dog, I didn't think I could handle behavior issues that some rescue dogs come with.

puppy_luv4life,

There is no serious issue with my dog. Just a common thing some toy breeds get, which is luxating patella. Lots of people don't even know what that is. Lots of people do know what it is and that their dog has it and choose not to do anything about it. Lots of other people get it fixed for a lot less than we are paying. How old are you, by the way?


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## puppy_luv4life

OK for everyone who wants to know how old i am... i'm gonna be 13 in may.. i'm getting a puppy for my birthday....

I have a Tabatian terrier((spposed to be a family dog)) and I take care of him(a long w/ my mom) and my brothers girlfriend brought her dog over for me to baby-sit for like... 2 weeks.......... so i knwo how to take care of puppys as well as older dogs...


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## dhodina

> _Originally posted by Triste_@Apr 10 2005, 03:45 PM
> *I got my Oliver for 325$.  I will say that he didn't come from a fancy breeder though. Some people will say you get what you pay for...but I love my baby...even if he isn't "show" quality and he may have a sneer and his ears are crooked
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I have to agree with you... I paid less than that for my Tunder and he is a retired CH. In some peoples point of view he isn't worth much if anything because he is older, already missing a few teeth and nuetered. So now all his good breeding and show qualitys don't matter. What does matter is he is the biggest sweetheart I have ever met and I love his missing a few teeth stinky breath butt. I can understand how those who have huge bills can say its breeding and what not. But just to be devils advocate I have seen breeders with finished CH who had to get the luxating patellas surgically repaired on that CH. The amount you pay doesn't define what type of breeder you are buying from and I don't think the price makes one better than the other. Obviously this is just my thoughts and not ment to offend anyone.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom

> _Originally posted by MalteseJane_@Apr 10 2005, 06:34 PM
> *I paid 400 $ for him. And I cannot really complain about Alex's health. He is almost 8 years old and has not had a major illness. Most of my vet bills go to prevention.
> All those so called reputable breeders asking for astronomical prices for their puppies are part of the problem that puppy mills can exist and make money. What are poor people to do if they want a dog ? Are dogs only for rich people ? We are part of the problem too, agreeing to pay such prices for PET dogs. Sorry if I offend some people here.
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Well, I will agree with you, even if some throw stones.








I also purchased Brinkley for $400.00...he is a year old, and so far, he has had no health problems. My other dogs, although AKC with papers (which I know means nothing), were also purchased inexpensively from BYB's and one is almost 8 and one is almost 5. They also have had no major health problems. The Bassett had some non-cancerous tumors removed a year or two ago, but they didn't bother her, and she had no adverse effects. In my opinion, I have heard of just as many higher "quality" dogs (for lack of a better word







) on here and other places that have major health problems as I have the ones that came from BYB's and pet stores. By all means, if you are purchasing to show, spend the extra bucks. But in my opinion, for a healthy, loving pet, there is no need. Why should I be denied the right to own a maltese (or any other pure-bred) just because I cannot-and will not pay 1000+ for a pet at this time in our lives. We don't even have college funds finished for our kids yet.







We do well to pay the bills etc. We are a young family with other $$ priorities besides our pets. Does that mean we should either have no dog, or a mutt?







Oh, wait, mutts aren't encouraged here either.







It is a no-win situation.








I will step down off my soap-box.


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## sheila2182

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Apr 10 2005, 07:55 PM-->
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> @Apr 10 2005, 06:34 PM
> *I paid 400 $ for him. And I cannot really complain about Alex's health. He is almost 8 years old and has not had a major illness. Most of my vet bills go to prevention.
> All those so called reputable breeders asking for astronomical prices for their puppies are part of the problem that puppy mills can exist and make money. What are poor people to do if they want a dog ? Are dogs only for rich people ? We are part of the problem too, agreeing to pay such prices for PET dogs. Sorry if I offend some people here.
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Well, I will agree with you, even if some throw stones.








I also purchased Brinkley for $400.00...he is a year old, and so far, he has had no health problems. My other dogs, although AKC with papers (which I know means nothing), were also purchased inexpensively from BYB's and one is almost 8 and one is almost 5. They also have had no major health problems. The Bassett had some non-cancerous tumors removed a year or two ago, but they didn't bother her, and she had no adverse effects. In my opinion, I have heard of just as many higher "quality" dogs (for lack of a better word







) on here and other places that have major health problems as I have the ones that came from BYB's and pet stores. By all means, if you are purchasing to show, spend the extra bucks. But in my opinion, for a healthy, loving pet, there is no need. Why should I be denied the right to own a maltese (or any other pure-bred) just because I cannot-and will not pay 1000+ for a pet at this time in our lives. We don't even have college funds finished for our kids yet.







We do well to pay the bills etc. We are a young family with other $$ priorities besides our pets. Does that mean we should either have no dog, or a mutt?







Oh, wait, mutts aren't encouraged here either.







It is a no-win situation.








I will step down off my soap-box.
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## charmypoo

I think we should start a poll to determine price versus health problems. I must say, I have no health issues with any of my Maltese. Some of my friends who have purchased lower priced Maltese has spend more money on health bills that make the cost greater than what I paid.


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## rubyjeansmom

> _Originally posted by sheila2182+Apr 10 2005, 05:58 PM-->
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> *@Apr 10 2005, 06:34 PM
> I paid 400 $ for him. And I cannot really complain about Alex's health. He is almost 8 years old and has not had a major illness. Most of my vet bills go to prevention.
> All those so called reputable breeders asking for astronomical prices for their puppies are part of the problem that puppy mills can exist and make money. What are poor people to do if they want a dog ? Are dogs only for rich people ? We are part of the problem too, agreeing to pay such prices for PET dogs. Sorry if I offend some people here.
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## Ladysmom

Just my 2 cents...

If your father is worried about the cost of this puppy and, as you say, he would probably have the dog put to sleep if it had major health problems down the line, you may want to rethink your choice of a Maltese for a birthday present.

Maltese are lovely, but they are (like many purebred toy dogs) prone to a host of health problems, including liver disease, luxating patellas, eye problems and thyroid problems. Surgery for a liver shunt is about $3,000. Knee surgery runs about $1500 a knee.

We had a poll here recently and the majority of our posters have dogs a year and half old and younger. That's pretty young still to be able to tell if a dog is free from genetic disease or not. Those of us who have (or have had) older Maltese in most cases have had some serious vet bills.

This breed is not for the faint of heart or weak of wallet, in my opinion. My Lady's meds run about $150 a month. She is a poorly bred Maltese that one could get for a few hundred dollars. JMM Mikey's is very well bred and his meds run something like $400 a month! So obviously there is no guarentee, but your odds improve consdierably if you buy a puppy from a very reputable breeder. But then you are talking in the thousands for a puppy.....

Buying a Maltese is sort of like going to a really expensive store...if you have to ask the price, you probably shouldn't even go through the door!


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## pico's parent

To boil down all of this excellent advice:

1) Do your research and select a GOOD breeder. Eliminate purchasing from a puppymill, either directly or indirectly through a flea market vendor, online broker, or other type of broker.

2) Be prepared to foot an unexpected, expensive vet bill and hope you never have to.

3) If you can't do #1 above, then go to the Animal Shelter or a Rescue group because you will then be doing a humane service to a needy dog at a low up-front cost even though you will still likely have veterinary expenses ongoing. This way, you don't perpetuate careless breeding practices by purchasing a poorly bred puppy.

I cordially disagree with Tlunn (we all get to have our own opinions on SM!







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## FannyMay

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@Apr 11 2005, 10:29 AM
> *To boil down all of this excellent advice:
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> 1)  Do your research and select a GOOD breeder.  Eliminate purchasing from a puppymill, either directly or indirectly through a flea market vendor, online broker, or other type of broker.
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> 2)  Be prepared to foot an unexpected, expensive vet bill and hope you never have to.
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> 3)  If you can't do #1 above, then go to the Animal Shelter or a Rescue group because you will then be doing a humane service to a needy dog at a low up-front cost even though you will still likely have veterinary expenses ongoing.  This way, you don't perpetuate careless breeding practices by purchasing a poorly bred puppy.
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> I cordially disagree with Tlunn (we all get to have our own opinions on SM!
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I agree! If you want a cheap dog then go to a shelter. You will get about the same breeding quality for the price and you won't be putting money into the pockets of puppt mills and back yard breeders. If you are willing to pay the vet bills for health problems (that you might get with reputable breeders puppies and most likley _will_ get with a puppy mill or BYB puppy) then go for the rescue. If you don't want a rescue then keep looking because the price you are looking at is really low and that most likley means they don't do genetic testing on their pups, it also means they are probably a BYB.

More later I just got a phone call and want to post this.


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## Ladysmom

Responsible breeders will do the appropriate veterinary medical screening to ensure that their breeding stock does not show signs of known genetic disorders. Testing can be in the form of X-rays, ultra-sound, blood analysis, eye exams, and many other methods.

Responsible breeders are knowledgeable about the problems inherent to their breeds. They will be more than willing to discuss these issues with you and be able to show proof that they have been conducting regular testing on breeding stock. Unfortunately, some disorders do not show up until later in the dogšs life, so there is never a 100 % guarantee. However, a responsible breeder always has the overall health of his or her dogs and their offspring in mind. Regardless of whom you are purchasing a puppy from, if they will not 
discuss possible genetic disorders with you please, walk away. To avoid future heartache and considerable financial cost, buy your puppy elsewhere!

What is a Backyard Breeder?

Backyard breeders are people who indiscriminately mate any two dogs just for the sake of the money. They may sell the puppies on their own or ship them to pet stores. If they are breeding several breeds of dogs they may be running a puppy mill. People like this usually will not admit to the existence of genetic problems and have little or no regard for the resulting puppies health, temperament or well-being. Do not buy a puppy of ANY breed from a backyard breeder.

Think Ahead

While many genetic disorders are not life threatening, they can be financial and emotional burden for caring dog owners. If you are planning to acquire a new dog, first consider the dog's general characteristics. His size once full grown, coat type, activity level and ease of training are important things to consider. Then, ask yourself if you fully understand all the potential health problems inherent to your chosen breed. Remember, not all dogs of any given breed are stricken with obvious genetic health problems. If you deal with a responsible breeder, you stand a far better chance of acquiring a puppy that you can enjoy for years to come.

So beware of the backyard breeder.


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## miko's mommy

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Apr 11 2005, 06:25 AM
> *We had a poll here recently and the majority of our posters have dogs a year and half old and younger. That's pretty young still to be able to tell if a dog is free from genetic disease or not. Those of us who have (or have had) older Maltese in most cases have had some serious vet bills.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51291*


[/QUOTE]

LadysMom,

I think this is really a good point (as all of your posts are). My dog is only 2 yrs old, but I am fully aware that lots more things in addition to knees can come up. I hate to imagine what our vet bills will be in the future.

Also, I didn't know about Miko's knees until he was 1.5 yrs old. Its also likely that a few more years could have gone by before I knew.


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## Chelsey

So long as you do your research.. which you have already started doing my reading and posting here and getting some good feed back you should be ok. 
Just make a list of your questions for the person you are buying your puppy from.
If all they care about is the money run fast from them.
If they start asking you personal questions that is a good start.

In addition, the person that asked you your age , was just asking I think as she is also a teen . So don't take offence by the question.
Everyone here is a friendly buch, Please so let us know when you get your puppy.. and post losts of pictures


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## Ladysmom

I learned from firsthand experience that those ticking genetic time bombs can go off later in life. When I adopted Lady at age 4&1/2 she had always been healthy.

Since then, she has been diagnosed with epilepsy, diabetes, a grade 1 heart murmur, rheumatoid arthritis and allergies. She was hospitalized and hooked up to an IV annually for the first 3 years I had her. Needless to say, I have spent some serious $$$ on that little girl.

More than just the money though, until you have been through it you can't imagine the emotional toll loving a chronically ill dog can take. I have held her in my arms through countless seizures, walked her in a sling when she was unable to walk on her own, and watched her nearly die from complications from her diabetes. I have cried so many tears, tears of sadness, tears of fear and yes, tears of anger at the many who have failed her - her "breeder", the pet shop, her first owner, all those who should have assumed some responsibilty for this little life, but didn't.

She will be 10 this year and doing fabulously, thank heavens. To look at her now you would never know there was anything wrong with her. Her joy for life and will to live amaze even my vet.

But my heart is still in my throat everytime I unlock my front door, terrified of what I may find. When she is sleeping soundly I will always check to make sure she is breathing. I try to celebrate each day I have with her and not worry about how many more I may have, but it's hard, so hard not to worry. 

Start with the healthiest puppy from the best breeder you can find so that you can have 15 years of happiness. If you can't afford it now, wait and save your money until you can.


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## Furbaby's Mommie

My Frosty is 13 yr., 3 mo. old. I knew nothing about Maltese when I bought him from someone who wasn't really a breeder, just had both a male & female who were registered. His parents did have some good bloodlines, but there was no testing or guarantees for health. That was a long time ago and prices have changed a lot, but I paid $325. for him. Until this year at age 13 he has been very healthy. He's always had routine care and lots of preventive care, which is expensive alone. He does have tricky knees, but they don't seem to bother him. I drove 200 mi. to get him. They lived on a ranch, it was April and had snowed and rained hard all day. The parent dogs were running loose in the ranch yard, soaking wet. However, it didn't turn me off.....they were healthy and friendly, just wet. The puppies were on a warm porch adjoinging the kitchen, clean, warm, fat and healthy looking. The family had children who handled the pups. Sooo....not knowing Maltese should be 12 wks. old before going to a home, I took 7 wk. old Frosty home 200 miles. The "breeder" never answered any of my frantic questions about feeding or learning to care for a Maltese coat.







I was on my own to find books and info on the net and learn what to do. I ended up feeding him with a teaspoon the first 5 yrs.! He was very hard to feed.

Both Frosty and I were LUCKY! We made it, but the lack of knowledge and experience with a Maltese made the first few years a scary experience for me. I wasn't 13 yrs. old, however! I was a grandmother who had raised puppies and kittens, horses and calfs, I had a husband willing to spend everything we had to care for our little furkid, and I was willing to spend a good share of my time devoted to caring for Frosty. I even quit my job so I could be home with him. We bought an RV so he could always go with us. I worried over every little sneeze or upset tummy like he was our real baby. I learned to groom him because I didn't want to take the chance of someone hurting him.

After spending 13 years on several Maltese forums, attending some shows and being an ardent knowledge seeker, I still feel like I'm only begining. I now would only buy a dog from a well known breeder with lots of recommendations and dogs I can see and know their type and their off-spring. A breeder who has a plan and knows the bloodlines not just for type and size (I think bigger is better---I don't want to show), but health histories of the bloodlines and that tests their dogs for known problems with the breed. I would never bring home a puppy less than 12 wks. old that has been socialized and not kept in a cage. NO PETSHOPS, BACKYARD BREEDERS, BROKERS ON THE NET OR NEWSPAPER ADS--OBVIOUSLY NO PUPPYMILLS! Would all of those criteria guarantee my new dog would have no problems........NO. But it would give me some peace of mind, and a breeder to turn to who would help with things, and a pretty good idea who and what my pup will turn out to be. At this point I know what MY ideal Maltese looks like, and I know I will let the breeder who knows the personality of her litter pick my new furbaby. I don't want anymore aggressive alphas! Frosty is TOO smart and knows his own mind and no amount of training will change that personality. I have loved him like my own child for these 13 years, and will to the end! but boy, what a ride it has been to keep ahead of him!

Sorry this is so long, but my heart aches for a dog, and the owner, who is still a child herself and would take on a Maltese puppy if her family isn't knowledgeable about the breed, and interested in it and all that it takes to care for one. We aren't just talking about $$$ here! My dear girl if you must have a Maltese make d**n sure you and your parents both are ready for the whole 24/7 responsibility! They aren't like owning a dog, they are like tiny delicate, sensitive furry children that never grow up. They need a "mommie" who is there and aware of their every need 24/7. That's for 12-18 years, not just a few months. If you aren't devoted this will become a real burden....then there is neglect, possibly even abuse and the dog ends up in a Humane Society or worse. I'm sure this is not your intent and you would want the best for your puppy, but 12-18 years of hard work every day to keep a Maltese healthy and groomed can become impossible to handle unless there is true devotion to it. So do all the studying and research, but mostly do some honest hard thinking first.
Good luck whatever you do!


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## Sisses Momma

Lady's Mom and Frosty's Mom, two opinions that I have always trusted. You both said it all......


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## msmagnolia

Dee and Marj,
It is so, so, so very important for those of us with young dogs to hear from the folks with older maltese. I very much appreciate both of you taking the time to outline your observations and experiences and to share what you have learned.


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## k/c mom

I have to add that I appreciate Marj and Dee taking the time to share their experiences with us. This is important not only for "Puppy_4life" but for all of the lurkers, future new SM members, etc. 

When I was at the vet around the time I was looking for a second Maltese, the receptionist gave me the name of someone looking to sell theirs. It turned out to be an acquaintance. I went to her home to see "Charlie". Their story was that their 13-year-old daughter wanted a Malt and they made her earn the money to pay for him. She had promised to be his #1 care giver. She spent about $1,200 for him at Petland! (These people are one of the most influential and wealthiest families in our town.) This dog was to be the daughter's as the family had met and decided they did want another dog. (They already had a cocker spaniel.)

So, she had him for two months and decided it was too much work to care for him and they put him up for sale. I didn't take him because he was marking and because he was from Petland. They eventually sold him to another family..... I hope he is OK....


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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Apr 11 2005, 05:25 AM
> *Just my 2 cents...
> 
> If your father is worried about the cost of this puppy and, as you say, he would probably have the dog put to sleep if it had major health problems down the line, you may want to rethink your choice of a Maltese for a birthday present.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51291*


[/QUOTE]

no no no no no thats not what my post said.. here's what it said....



> _*i dout my dad (knowing him) will make the dog be put to sleep becuase of the high pet bill but you never know...*_ i think he'll find a way for me to pay it off weather it be LOTS AND LOTS of never ending chores or earning the money or doing who knows what he'll come up with but thats just what i think.....
> 
> after i told him that it was a pretty good deal and that most are 1000s of $s he was still iffy and then i showd and told him about the posts on this decusion fourm and he was like "well... i'll talk to your mom" and my mom wants me to get the dog so i bet she'll talk him into it....... anyways.... i understand fully thats the puppy is MY COMPLETE resposability and they know i do and i would do anything to help her and NOTHING to hurt her........ so....... I've done and doing LOTS of research!! and one sight said of there making/wanting you to pay 100s of $s for it then there not worth it and also there is no such thing as tea cut malteses and not to buy one if the breeder calls them that.... just a little edvise..... lol......[/B]


thats all of it...(( i added the underline and bold and italics so you can see where it says it)) 

so re-read it again


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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by FannyMay+Apr 11 2005, 07:51 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> <!--QuoteBegin-Pico's Parent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> @Apr 11 2005, 10:29 AM
> *To boil down all of this excellent advice:
> 
> 1)  Do your research and select a GOOD breeder.  Eliminate purchasing from a puppymill, either directly or indirectly through a flea market vendor, online broker, or other type of broker.
> 
> 2)  Be prepared to foot an unexpected, expensive vet bill and hope you never have to.
> 
> 3)  If you can't do #1 above, then go to the Animal Shelter or a Rescue group because you will then be doing a humane service to a needy dog at a low up-front cost even though you will still likely have veterinary expenses ongoing.  This way, you don't perpetuate careless breeding practices by purchasing a poorly bred puppy.
> 
> I cordially disagree with Tlunn (we all get to have our own opinions on SM!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) when she says as many well-bred Maltese on this site have health problems as BYB Maltese.  It is NOT usual for a Maltese purchased from a breeder who is careful in breeding and who tests for liver shunts, etc. BEFORE selling a puppy, to have health problems.  While is IS usual for a Maltese bred without regard to these genetic health problems to have them.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51312*
Click to expand...














































I agree! If you want a cheap dog then go to a shelter. You will get about the same breeding quality for the price and you won't be putting money into the pockets of puppt mills and back yard breeders. If you are willing to pay the vet bills for health problems (that you might get with reputable breeders puppies and most likley _will_ get with a puppy mill or BYB puppy) then go for the rescue. If you don't want a rescue then keep looking because the price you are looking at is really low and that most likley means they don't do genetic testing on their pups, it also means they are probably a BYB.

More later I just got a phone call and want to post this.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51348
[/B][/QUOTE]

yay but how many shelters do you see carrying CUT EHEALTHY GOOD maltese?... i used to go there at least 2 times a week and there was only big HUGE dogs and mutts!....... also ..... in MY opionin i think thats sumtimes a HORABLE place to buy a dog.. being so close together and everything they catch kennel cough and yes the DREADED desise.... DESTEMPER... my brohter bought his a girlfriend a puppy there and he lived for about 3 BAD weeks..... he died of destemper because of the dog shelter and he started with kennel cough(they think) and it j/ got worse...... it was so0o0 sad.....


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## HappyB

I've asked this question before--more than once, but I think it's important here too. We say that one should go to a reputable breeder to avoid health problems, and there is the suggestion about testing being done by some. So, again, for those of you who purchased your dog from a known show breeder, what testing was done on the parents and your pup?
I've paid anywhere from $400 for my first Maltese to over $5000 for another. None of mine have had any health testing, and some came from top breeders.
Fortunately, they are all healthy--at this point. My oldest (the $400 one) is five, and her only problem is two missing teeth, but she sucks on the blanket a lot.
I am planning to do health testing with my dogs, and I've already started it with some. Right now, I'm just raising my own dogs, but one day I might want to sell one, and I want to be sure it is healthy.


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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by Chelsey_@Apr 11 2005, 09:44 AM
> *So long as you do your research.. which you have already started doing my reading and posting here and getting some good feed back you should be ok.
> Just make a list of your questions for the person you are buying your puppy from.
> If all they care about is the money run fast from them.
> If they start asking you personal questions that is a good start.
> 
> In addition, the person that asked you your age , was just asking I think as she is also a teen .  So don't take offence by the question.
> Everyone here is a friendly buch,  Please so let us know when you get your puppy.. and post losts of pictures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51399*


[/QUOTE]


oh yah I know i didn't mean to be rude i ws just making a statment... which ones the teen?? 2 people asked me... is it puppylucy or..... okw?? maybe i should do a poll to see who else is my age............

also.... what do u think about the name keelie for a girl?? it looks liek kelly but its keelie..... lol!! or daisy?


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## puppylucy

hope i didn't offend you by asking your age - i'm 14


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## Chelsey

> _Originally posted by puppy_luv4life+Apr 11 2005, 06:52 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> <!--QuoteBegin-Chelsey
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> @Apr 11 2005, 09:44 AM
> *So long as you do your research.. which you have already started doing my reading and posting here and getting some good feed back you should be ok.
> Just make a list of your questions for the person you are buying your puppy from.
> If all they care about is the money run fast from them.
> If they start asking you personal questions that is a good start.
> 
> In addition, the person that asked you your age , was just asking I think as she is also a teen .  So don't take offence by the question.
> Everyone here is a friendly buch,  Please so let us know when you get your puppy.. and post losts of pictures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51399*
Click to expand...


oh yah I know i didn't mean to be rude i ws just making a statment... which ones the teen?? 2 people asked me... is it puppylucy or..... okw?? maybe i should do a poll to see who else is my age............

also.... what do u think about the name keelie for a girl?? it looks liek kelly but its keelie..... lol!! or daisy?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51560
[/B][/QUOTE]

I like Keelie it sounds cute


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## pico's parent

> _Originally posted by puppy_luv4life+Apr 11 2005, 05:44 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 07:51 AM
> *<!--QuoteBegin-Pico's Parent*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *@Apr 11 2005, 10:29 AM
> To boil down all of this excellent advice:
> 
> 1)  Do your research and select a GOOD breeder.  Eliminate purchasing from a puppymill, either directly or indirectly through a flea market vendor, online broker, or other type of broker.
> 
> 2)  Be prepared to foot an unexpected, expensive vet bill and hope you never have to.
> 
> 3)  If you can't do #1 above, then go to the Animal Shelter or a Rescue group because you will then be doing a humane service to a needy dog at a low up-front cost even though you will still likely have veterinary expenses ongoing.  This way, you don't perpetuate careless breeding practices by purchasing a poorly bred puppy.
> 
> I cordially disagree with Tlunn (we all get to have our own opinions on SM!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) when she says as many well-bred Maltese on this site have health problems as BYB Maltese.  It is NOT usual for a Maltese purchased from a breeder who is careful in breeding and who tests for liver shunts, etc. BEFORE selling a puppy, to have health problems.  While is IS usual for a Maltese bred without regard to these genetic health problems to have them.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51312*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree! If you want a cheap dog then go to a shelter. You will get about the same breeding quality for the price and you won't be putting money into the pockets of puppt mills and back yard breeders. If you are willing to pay the vet bills for health problems (that you might get with reputable breeders puppies and most likley will get with a puppy mill or BYB puppy) then go for the rescue. If you don't want a rescue then keep looking because the price you are looking at is really low and that most likley means they don't do genetic testing on their pups, it also means they are probably a BYB.
> 
> More later I just got a phone call and want to post this.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51348*
Click to expand...

*
*[/QUOTE]

yay but how many shelters do you see carrying CUT EHEALTHY GOOD maltese?... i used to go there at least 2 times a week and there was only big HUGE dogs and mutts!....... also ..... in MY opionin i think thats sumtimes a HORABLE place to buy a dog.. being so close together and everything they catch kennel cough and yes the DREADED desise.... DESTEMPER... my brohter bought his a girlfriend a puppy there and he lived for about 3 BAD weeks..... he died of destemper because of the dog shelter and he started with kennel cough(they think) and it j/ got worse...... it was so0o0 sad.....
















<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51555
[/B][/QUOTE]


OK, a friend had a bad experience with a shelter. I can say that the Humane Society here in SAn Antonio is a wonderful facility and they have a section specifically with small dogs. I saw a sweet Lhasa there the last time I visited. You simply cannot judge all facilities by a single experience. And if it is a specific breed you are looking for, Rescues would be the way to get breed specific. Also, let your veterinarian know you are looking for a Maltese to adopt. 

You have gotten a lot of good advice here from very experienced and wise maltese owners but you seem to be looking for a way to ignore this advice and do what you want to do. Please reconsider.


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## puppylucy

> You have gotten a lot of good advice here from very experienced and wise maltese owners but you seem to be looking for a way to ignore this advice and do what you want to do. Please reconsider.[/B]


i agree. if your dad has a problem with spending $1000+ on a dog (i know my dad was a little reluctant at first, being a mutt-from-the-pound kind of guy), then you should really consider RESCUE. it doesn't have to be a mutt from the pound, it can be a cute, young little maltese who had to be given up for some reason. try contacting a maltese rescue or even just go to petfinder.com, they have over 150 maltese available for adoption.

i'm not trying to step on your toes, so to speak, but there are other options than what you seem set on doing that may be better for you and your family.


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## charmypoo

Rescues are not the way to go for lower cost. In general, they have more health problems and some behaviour issues. Futhermore, most rescue organizations will not adopt out to people in their early teens.


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## miko's mommy

> _Originally posted by puppy_luv4life+Apr 11 2005, 03:52 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> <!--QuoteBegin-Chelsey
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> @Apr 11 2005, 09:44 AM
> *So long as you do your research.. which you have already started doing my reading and posting here and getting some good feed back you should be ok.
> Just make a list of your questions for the person you are buying your puppy from.
> If all they care about is the money run fast from them.
> If they start asking you personal questions that is a good start.
> 
> In addition, the person that asked you your age , was just asking I think as she is also a teen .  So don't take offence by the question.
> Everyone here is a friendly buch,   Please so let us know when you get your puppy.. and post losts of pictures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51399*
Click to expand...


oh yah I know i didn't mean to be rude i ws just making a statment... which ones the teen?? 2 people asked me... is it puppylucy or..... okw?? maybe i should do a poll to see who else is my age............

also.... what do u think about the name keelie for a girl?? it looks liek kelly but its keelie..... lol!! or daisy?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51560
[/B][/QUOTE]

I am 27...not a teen!!


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## FannyMay

> _Originally posted by CharmyPoo_@Apr 11 2005, 07:56 PM
> *Rescues are not the way to go for lower cost.  In general, they have more health problems and some behaviour issues.  Futhermore, most rescue organizations will not adopt out to people in their early teens.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51595*


[/QUOTE]


If you are replying to my post I would like to rebut. I said that Malts that aren't that expensive tend to be BYB dogs or puppy mill dogs and if you are willing to get one of them you should look into a shelter or rescue because those dogs will be the same quality (some better than others) and they will be cheap too. 

If you spend a few hundred on a Malt you are going to pay more in the long run in vet bills. If you pay in the thousands for a Malt then you are going to pay less in vet bills (most of the time). So I was saying if you want a cheaper dog up front then get a shelter or rescue dog instead of putting money into the hands of puppy mills and BYB. They will just continue to breed unhealthy dogs if you do. 

And it’s not like this 13 year old is going to march into a rescue and ask for a dog. Her parents would be the ones adopting the dog so a shelter or rescue might give them a dog.

puppy_luv4life, it seems to me like you just want a Maltese and you don’t care about anything else. Please think about the dog. Before you decide to get a puppy just remember that that puppy is a living creature with feelings. This puppy will need a lifetime of attention, training, grooming, companionship, and compassion. This dog will become your dependant witch means you have to pay its bills, you have to feed it and put a roof over its head, you have to take care of it when it’s sick and take it to the vet when it needs to go. You have to have the money to care for this life. You have to be its mother. Are you ready to be a mother? You will be responsible for another life. This isn’t like getting a new toy, this is for the rest of this dog’s life. Where will you be in 15 years? Are you going to be able to take care of this dog for that long? Just think about these things before you decide to get a puppy (any kind of puppy).


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## Airmid

i actually think a Rescue may be they way to go-remember these little guys look like puppies forever! Some rescues may have issues, but others are just victims of circumstance. And sometimes, they are victims of circumstance that are almost or fully potty trained.....THAT is a PLUS!!! Puppies may be a young sweet thing, but house breaking stinks.









An adult may be just the thing! 

Another thing to ponder....


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## puppylucy

> _Originally posted by CharmyPoo_@Apr 11 2005, 06:56 PM
> *Rescues are not the way to go for lower cost.  In general, they have more health problems and some behaviour issues.  Futhermore, most rescue organizations will not adopt out to people in their early teens.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51595*


[/QUOTE]








if that was directed towards me, i apologize - i didn't mean to imply that rescue would be cheaper. i was referring more to 'up front' costs if she has her heart set on a maltese, like it appears she is. anyways, once again, i apologize for any misunderstanding


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## HappyB

I don't think one can judge health on cost of the dog. Since I didn't get a response to my question about whether those who purchased from show breeders had health testing, I would like to reword it. Has anyone who purchased a dog and paid more than $1000 for it got one that had its parents tested, or testing done on the pup?
I'm fortunate in that I've never had any health problems with any of my Maltese. But then, I didn't have any on the free dog I got out of someone's back yard a few years ago either.


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## sheila2182

> _Originally posted by LucyLou_@Apr 11 2005, 07:57 PM
> *I don't think one can judge health on cost of the dog.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51621*


[/QUOTE]







I agree,although there are some that would(and do)argue the point.


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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent+Apr 11 2005, 03:26 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 05:44 PM
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 07:51 AM
> <!--QuoteBegin-Pico's Parent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> @Apr 11 2005, 10:29 AM
> To boil down all of this excellent advice:
> 
> 1)  Do your research and select a GOOD breeder.  Eliminate purchasing from a puppymill, either directly or indirectly through a flea market vendor, online broker, or other type of broker.
> 
> 2)  Be prepared to foot an unexpected, expensive vet bill and hope you never have to.
> 
> 3)  If you can't do #1 above, then go to the Animal Shelter or a Rescue group because you will then be doing a humane service to a needy dog at a low up-front cost even though you will still likely have veterinary expenses ongoing.  This way, you don't perpetuate careless breeding practices by purchasing a poorly bred puppy.
> 
> I cordially disagree with Tlunn (we all get to have our own opinions on SM!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> yay but how many shelters do you see carrying CUT EHEALTHY GOOD maltese?... i used to go there at least 2 times a week and there was only big HUGE dogs and mutts!....... also ..... in MY opionin i think thats sumtimes a HORABLE place to buy a dog.. being so close together and everything they catch kennel cough and yes the DREADED desise.... DESTEMPER... my brohter bought his a girlfriend a puppy there and he lived for about 3 BAD weeks..... he died of destemper because of the dog shelter and he started with kennel cough(they think) and it j/ got worse...... it was so0o0 sad.....
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OK, a friend had a bad experience with a shelter. I can say that the Humane Society here in SAn Antonio is a wonderful facility and they have a section specifically with small dogs. I saw a sweet Lhasa there the last time I visited. You simply cannot judge all facilities by a single experience. And if it is a specific breed you are looking for, Rescues would be the way to get breed specific. Also, let your veterinarian know you are looking for a Maltese to adopt. 

You have gotten a lot of good advice here from very experienced and wise maltese owners but you seem to be looking for a way to ignore this advice and do what you want to do. Please reconsider.
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no not ignoring advise j/ puting my passt experice in it.... i don't live in san antionio and dont' have what u have.............


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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by FannyMay+Apr 11 2005, 04:33 PM-->
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And it’s not like this 13 year old is going to march into a rescue and ask for a dog. Her parents would be the ones adopting the dog so a shelter or rescue might give them a dog.

puppy_luv4life, it seems to me like you just want a Maltese and you don’t care about anything else. Please think about the dog. Before you decide to get a puppy just remember that that puppy is a living creature with feelings. This puppy will need a lifetime of attention, training, grooming, companionship, and compassion. This dog will become your dependant witch means you have to pay its bills, you have to feed it and put a roof over its head, you have to take care of it when it’s sick and take it to the vet when it needs to go. You have to have the money to care for this life. You have to be its mother. Are you ready to be a mother? You will be responsible for another life. This isn’t like getting a new toy, this is for the rest of this dog’s life. Where will you be in 15 years? Are you going to be able to take care of this dog for that long? Just think about these things before you decide to get a puppy (any kind of puppy).
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of course and that i know! i've been savig up my money.. almost have 100 and i'm going to baby sit again tommrow and i get like $10 for like 1.5 hrs.... 

and its not like shes goin to be my first dog.. i have a tabitan terrier as i said... BUT its a family pet so mom and dad pay for the vet bill ans stuff BUT i know how much it is........ i've thought about all of it... remeber i've been thinking about getting a puppy for 2 years.. i've don't lots of research bought books((with my own money)) started allowance back up and done everythin the prepare..... i've bought her a bed too((with my own money)) i'm so proud of myself i've spent my money on the dog and HARDLY on me! oh yah and guess what else! i told mom and dad that all i want for christmas is stuff for my dog((i think i'm gonna name her keelie)) 

I found a lady selling her at $600 and shes a good breeder ...... my friend bought 3 from her and there healthy and adorble little doggies! (( i think i've already talked about this.......)) in may*I* think i'll be ready for her and if my parents didn't thik i would be ready for her then why would they be letting me get her?


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## stini

[Deleted..... totally not wanting to ruffle feathers here. Sowwy sowwy sowwy!














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## triste

hmm, gotta keep in mind this isn't an adult we are talking to..and even if it was.. I can overlook mispellings and such







...some people simply don't express themselves well in writing. It doesn't make them any less of an individual. I am glad this person came here asking questions b4 the purchase, it shows that they care! I guess since I have a 12 yr old, I can relate a bit. Youth at this age focus on things they want and it is up to us adults to steer them in the right direction w/ compassion. Please know that not everyone feels this way. I for one could care less how you post. If you need help/answers, please ask.







Poor English does not a bad person make.









I just had to come back and support this kid.


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## sheila2182

> _Originally posted by Triste_@Apr 11 2005, 09:33 PM
> *hmm, gotta keep in mind this isn't an adult we are talking to..and even if it was.. I can overlook mispellings and such
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## stini

Aw, I didn't mean it as an attack! I apologize. 

I was just thinking that she may get a better response from people, if she were to just slow down a little and think things through.

I cant help but get the impression that she's made this "I need a puppy NOW!" decision on a whim, without taking into account what a long term commitment a dog is. 

A Maltese is a bit more needy than a Tibetian Terrier.


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## triste

Ya, I know ...and I understood what you were saying but I think at this stage, focusing on WHAT their questions are rather than HOW they are said is more important. I just hope it didn't hurt his/her feelings(sorry can't remember if puppy4 is male/female). Gotta remember tone can't be felt on the board. I would have taken this post very personal (ya, I'm a moody sh*t too







). Okies everyone, Triste is off to bed...behave ya'll !


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## charmypoo

> _Originally posted by FannyMay_@Apr 11 2005, 07:33 PM
> *If you are replying to my post I would like to rebut.*


I was not responding to you but to the many posts suggesting rescue/shelter is the way to go. I just wanted to point out that it is often more costly. I work with a rescue and have spent a lot of money on vet bills for my fosters. It is a rule that we do not adopt to parents trying to get their children (13 and below). It is a family decision and if it is all for the chil and the child's responsibilitie - we will not do it. I did not make up the rule but it is imposed when I interview homes. I am sure many other rescues have rules (written or not) that are similiar.

I agree with what you said and I agree that cost does not determine health (see my earlier post). I am also not in disagreement that the buyer should get a puppy. I have wanted a Maltese since I was 9. I started my research since then and begged my dad for years. The answer was always no. Well, when I turned 20 and made my own money - I saved up and got myself one with my entire first paycheck.


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## dhodina

I have to give her credit here... she seems to have done more than alot of 13 yr olds would have. And I am not saying this to offend you Puppy but this comes down to your parents choice. They know that yes you will try your hardest to pay for everything but your 13 you can't. They know that and that is something they have to take into consideration too. So it maybe more than the 600 dollar intial investment they are looking at. They are looking at what happens when you turn 16 and getting that car becomes more important or at what is more important your college tuition or vet bills. I am ( and I cringe to say this) over 20 years older than you and I waited 7 yrs to get my malt. It has to be the right time. So while you are ready to go there are things your parents are looking at besides your dedication and commitment. And on a side note, I am the worst speller known to man. I swear spellcheck was designed for me.


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## Ladysmom

Since a Maltese will hopefully live to be 15 years old, have you thought about what will happen to this dog when you go off to college or leave home at 18?

As a mom to two grown children I have learned firsthand that any pet that is supposedly for a child is really mom's dog or cat. We got cats when my children were young that stayed at home far longer than my kids did! When I moved here 10 years ago from New York when my son, my "baby" went off to college and brought with me 4 cats. One was supposedly my son's cat, the other my daughter's. All lived well into their teens. (Fanny made the ripe old age of 20!) My daughter was married before "her" cat died!

I also learned that no matter what promises your children make to you, kids, especially teenagers, get busy. They join after school clubs, soccer teams, orchestras, date and attend school functions. It then falls on mom or dad to clean the litter boxes and walk the dog. 

In otherwords, a choice to get a pet is a family decision and all family members have to share in the responsibility, especially the financial responsibilty. It's wonderful that you are saving your babysitting money, but $100 doesn't go very far at the vet's office. I find I can drop that easily in a regular appointment if Lady needs a shot or urine test and 10 days worth of antibiotics, for instance. Dentals run close to $200. In Lady's case, her medications alone run $150 a month.


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## FannyMay

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Apr 12 2005, 10:35 AM
> *In otherwords, a choice to get a pet is a family decision and all family members have to share in the responsibility, especially the financial responsibilty. It's wonderful that you are saving your babysitting money, but $100 doesn't go very far at the vet's office. I find I can drop that easily in a regular appointment if Lady needs a shot or urine test and 10 days worth of antibiotics, for instance. Dentals run close to $200. In Lady's case, her medications alone run $150 a month.
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I was going to bring this up as well. I think it's great that you are saving your money for a dog but Marj is right, $100 doesn't go far. How long did it take you to save that $100? Fantasia just had her yearly appointment a few weeks ago and it came to over $80 and that was just the appointment and her heart worm preventative. She didn't even get vaccinations (they are usually $15 and above each) because she already had all her puppy shots (she's 3) and it isn't time for her vaccinations yet since we are doing the 3 year schedule. If she had to get her 2 vaccinations that bill would have gone above $100. And if she had needed x-rays again it would have been well over $100, then if she needed her urine tested it would have been more. 
If you get a puppy the first year of it's life is going to be filled with vet appointments and vaccinations. These vet bills will run over $100 each visit and you have to see the vet every few weeks right after you get a puppy. So sure you can save up for these foreseen vet appointments but what happens when she falls off the couch or bed and breaks a leg and you have to rush her in to the ER vet? The ER costs way more than the regular vet and these aren't planned visits. Who's going to pay for these visits? You can't save up for this. Well you can but it takes years of saving from a regular pay check to get a good vet account for your pet. I can't even afford one for Fantasia. We do the pay as you go and it's worked for us, but then again my husband works for a university and makes enough money to do this. We can support our baby (dog) and her health problems. Granted she doesn't have half as many health problems as Lady does, or even as much as some of the other dogs on this forum, but she was a puppy mill dog and her ill breeding caused her to have deformities that we didn't even know about till an ER vet appointment when they had to take an x-ray of her. We found that her back was messed up and that she had the bones of a 5 year old dog at the age of 2.
If you buy this dog that you want without asking the breeder all the questions you need to ask then you are not going to get a high quality dog and your wallet (or your parents) will pay later for it. You have to find out if this woman does genetic testing. If she does and the test results are good then talk about it with your family and make an informed decision. Don't just buy this dog because it's cute and you want one. That's what I did and (even though I love her with all my heart) I now have a dog with problems that will be costly as she gets older. She's only 3 now but I bet by the time she is 5 her vet bills will be through the roof just like Lady's are. If I had done more research ( did very little research before I got her and lots of research after it was too late and I already bought her) and made an account just for her I would have had a healthier puppy with the money to help her when she needed ER vet visits and so on. 
If your family has agreed to take responsibility for this dog and you are set on getting this Maltese then please keep looking till you find the PERFECT breeder. Read through this forum until you know every question you need to ask a breeder and what their answers should be. Read through every post until you understand what all can happen to such a small and fragile breed as the Maltese. I have read posts about things that I would never imagine could happen to a dog. I know someone (from another forum) that her dog ate some change (think it was a dime) and she paid an arm and a leg to get the ER surgery this dog needed to get the coin out. I never would have thought that a dog would eat money and to top it off not be able to pass it like most children can and do. I have also seen posts about Malts that have broken bones from falling off curbs, couches, beds and chairs. My dog falls off all sorts of things, thankfully hasn't broken anything yet but it can happen. I have also seen posts with dogs reacting to routine vaccinations and having to pay alot of money to hospitalize their pet for over night or longer. You have to be prepared for the worst. 
I know this is long so I will summarize. Please reconsider getting a Maltese and if you _and your family_ have your heart set on a Maltese then please do MORE research and be informed, and inform your family because they will be helping you with this pet. If I were you I would wait till you are grown, moved out, and have a good paying job before you get a Maltese but that’s just me.


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## msmagnolia

Just a sidebar here to reinforce what has been said about regular dog maintenance. I had my adult bichon to the vet 2 weeks ago for her REGULAR YEARLY CHECKUP. This was just routine - shots, fecal check, bloodtest, etc. She also got a year's supply of heartworm and flea prevention. The bill was $348. And I live in a very cheap part of the country as far as vet bills go. My bills are far cheaper here than they were in Virginia. 

Good for you for wanting a dog really bad and for doing the research. I believe, though, that your whole family, especially your mother, must want this dog as much as you do. Your parents need to have a realistic understanding of the costs and, as a family, you should sit down and determine what costs will be yours and what costs your parents are willing to pay. If you are going to be responsible for all costs involved, then I would tell you that I think you are considering the wrong breed of dog. I know that you are so anxious for a dog and I really do believe that you can find a good maltese without spending thousands of dollars, but I think the search could take a while and I just don't want to see another malt end up in rescue. I give you a lot of credit for doing some research!


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## stini

> _Originally posted by msmagnolia_@Apr 12 2005, 11:35 AM
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And she gets a lot of credit for coming here and asking questions, so informed people can help her out!


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## LexiAndNikkisMom

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And she gets a lot of credit for coming here and asking questions, so informed people can help her out!





























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## ilove_d&m

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Apr 12 2005, 09:35 AM
> *Since a Maltese will hopefully live to be 15 years old, have you thought about what will happen to this dog when you go off to college or leave home at 18?
> 
> As a mom to two grown children I have learned firsthand that any pet that is supposedly for a child is really mom's dog or cat. We got cats when my children were young that stayed at home far longer than my kids did! When I moved here 10 years ago from New York when my son, my "baby" went off to college and brought with me 4 cats.  One was supposedly my son's cat, the other my daughter's. All lived well into their teens. (Fanny made the ripe old age of 20!) My daughter was married before "her" cat died!
> 
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## ButterCloudandNoriko

Awww! You guys! Let's support her decision regardless! She seems so mature for her age. 2 yrs of research including buying books and already have experience with taking care of a dog. She's even agreed to talk to the breeder to see if she's good! She's working hard for something she truly wants! 
I know everyone here is wanting her to make the best decision and I feel that we've said all that we can...That it's a long term(15yr) commitment and that it could be more expensive than one thinks. I dont know her but it seems like she's gonna give a baby maltese as much love and attention as she can give and we surely can't deny a young girl or a maltese of the love that we experience from our babies. 

I hope you to take into consideration what everyone says. GOOD LUCK and let us know how the talk goes with the breeder.


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## triste

I don't think we are giving her parents enough credit here. If my child would come here and talk about getting a maltese, I'd be thrilled that they were getting inside info. Perhaps his/her parents already understand the financial issues(dude, how do we know they aren't loaded?)...and are letting his/her get a maltese b/c they wouldn't mind having one themselves?







I just think some people can be quick to judge...what if this person goes to college in his/her own city..then she won't move away and can still be w/ her/his baby? Who says they are even going to college? I feel as though some are discouraging her and her family from getting the dog they want to have. There are many variables that no one knows about and hasn't bothered to ask. A person/owner doesn't need to be loaded to own a Maltese dog..or a mutt for that matter. They need to have love and be responsible. I hope you don't assume that this 12/13 yr old has neither of those.







This is exactly why I wanted to stay out of this..







Please just provide the information and leave the what if's up to the person and their family.














I hope that if they get the Malt for 600$ that the dog is everything they dreamed and they are blessed w/ years of health and happiness. Good for you if you did find a breeder that is great and doesn't charm a freaking arm and a leg (ok so 600 IS an arm and a leg to some of us...and some of us it's 2 arms and 2 legs!)







BUT it doesn't mean that we wouldn't get our animals the treatment they needed. I understand the commitment when I take it...let's give this kid and their family a bit more credit.


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## sheila2182

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## kodie

First of all.. this is a VERY messy thread... haha... I gave up after the first 3 1/2 pages.




> _Originally posted by CharmyPoo_@Apr 10 2005, 06:11 PM
> *The price doesn't determine the quality of a puppy.  Unlike material goods, more expensive doesn't mean better.  You can pay $300 and have a perfect pet or you can pay $3000 and have a perfect pet.  You can also pay $3000 and have a terrible sickly pet or $300 and have a poor quality pet.
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I agree with this statement. I think dogs in general are an expensive pet. I've always been told that and knew that before even getting Kodie. Our beagle cost us a lot of money as well and he was only a $300 i think.

Just so you know... Kodie was over $1,000 and he is now 2 yrs old and I have spent WELL OVER that in vet bills. He has a liver disease and always needs special care if something is wrong with him... and you know what... Kodie was sooo expensive because he was TINY... THATS IT! Just because of his size! If I was smarter 2yrs ago I would have known that I shouldnt have gotten involved because of all the RED flags... Kodie was the only one to survive in the litter, his parents were too small and shouldnt have been bred and NEVER tested for anything. In my experience, breeders seem to charge more money for a pup if it is going to be extra tiny, or has special qualities about them such as silky coat, short nose, nice eyes... 
The better a pups physical qualities/characteristics are the more money you have to pay. (they are the ones in high demand....a bigger maltese is not according to all the things I have read.) This is the tiny dog craze.







Health is not the most important thing to some people anymore... they just want a tiny maltese.

I would just try your best to pick a pup that is from parents that were at least tested for disease and such... and then have the pup blood tested. Thats the best you can do... there never is a garentee that your getting a completely healthy dog in the future. Again... dogs are a very expensive pet in general. 

Just my 2 cents...

Lets not fight everyone!


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## pico's parent

Lets not fight everyone! (Kodie)

Kodie, this just does not seem like fighting in any way to me.......but then I was the 2nd of 5 children and the only girl in the family of Army brats so perhaps I have a very different version of fighting!!!
















We used weapons! broom handles and bottles! Bombs away!


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## ButterCloudandNoriko

HAHA. Pico's parent! Let's not say we're fighting. I think it's all about passion. Some can't help being passionate about protecting the breed.


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## k/c mom

I think just about everyone who is on this board seems to go out of their way to be polite before expressing a possibly unpopular thought. There were one or two people who were rather blunt who were posting a while back but they are no longer posting. 

We represent a wide range of ages, hail from different parts of this country and the world and come from different backgrounds. A post that is interpreted as rude by one person is seen as no more than expressing an opinion to another. I think we do a darn good job of communicating with each other in a respectful way.


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## lani

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Apr 12 2005, 10:45 AM
> *Awww!  You guys!  Let's support her decision regardless!  She seems so mature for her age.  2 yrs of research including buying books and already have experience with taking care of a dog.  She's even agreed to talk to the breeder to see if she's good!  She's working hard for something she truly wants!
> I know everyone here is wanting her to make the best decision and I feel that we've said all that we can...That it's a long term(15yr) commitment and that it could be more expensive than one thinks.  I dont know her but it seems like she's gonna give a baby maltese as much love and attention as she can give and we surely can't deny a young girl or a maltese of the love that we experience from our babies.
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## kodie

ooops.. i was refering to the other thread where everyone was getting upset about everyone elses opinions about MO. I should have posted it in there..haaha.. but heck I thought the same people were posting on both threads... sooo you all got to see it.


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## charmypoo

I am in full support of her decision. I am sure her parents will help her financially. I wanted a Maltese since I was young and I am still confident that I would have been able to care for him or her if only I was given the chance!


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## joe

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Apr 12 2005, 12:45 PM
> *Awww!  You guys!  Let's support her decision regardless!  She seems so mature for her age.  2 yrs of research including buying books and already have experience with taking care of a dog.  She's even agreed to talk to the breeder to see if she's good!  She's working hard for something she truly wants!
> I know everyone here is wanting her to make the best decision and I feel that we've said all that we can...That it's a long term(15yr) commitment and that it could be more expensive than one thinks.  I dont know her but it seems like she's gonna give a baby maltese as much love and attention as she can give and we surely can't deny a young girl or a maltese of the love that we experience from our babies.
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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by Triste_@Apr 11 2005, 06:33 PM
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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by Triste_@Apr 11 2005, 07:07 PM
> *Ya, I know ...and I understood what you were saying but I think at this stage, focusing on WHAT their questions are rather than HOW they are said is more important. I just hope it didn't hurt his/her feelings(sorry can't remember if puppy4 is male/female). Gotta remember tone can't be felt on the board. I would have taken this post very personal (ya, I'm a moody sh*t too
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YUP YUP YUP

(i'm a gurlie!!)


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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Apr 12 2005, 09:45 AM
> *Awww!  You guys!  Let's support her decision regardless!  She seems so mature for her age.  2 yrs of research including buying books and already have experience with taking care of a dog.  She's even agreed to talk to the breeder to see if she's good!  She's working hard for something she truly wants!
> I know everyone here is wanting her to make the best decision and I feel that we've said all that we can...That it's a long term(15yr) commitment and that it could be more expensive than one thinks.  I dont know her but it seems like she's gonna give a baby maltese as much love and attention as she can give and we surely can't deny a young girl or a maltese of the love that we experience from our babies.
> 
> I hope you to take into consideration what everyone says.  GOOD LUCK and let us know how the talk goes with the breeder.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=51865*


[/QUOTE]


well said! lol......





















...... have yall ever heard of K-I-S-S the guide to living w/ a dog.. OMG that's a AWSOME book and VERY infomational!!!!!!!


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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by Triste_@Apr 12 2005, 09:59 AM
> *I don't think we are giving her parents enough credit here.  If my child would come here and talk about getting a maltese, I'd be thrilled that they were getting inside info. Perhaps his/her parents already understand the financial issues(dude, how do we know they aren't loaded?)...and are letting his/her get a maltese b/c they wouldn't mind having one themselves?
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THANK YOU THANL YOU THANL YOU THANK YOU!... thats exactly what i was thinking! .. i fell so lov







ed! lol thanks bunches!!


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## Char-Luv-4-Maltese

My first maltese( I currently own over 12 now) cost me 375 AKC an I think she is the best of all my fur kidz of course she is my first an oldest my most I paid for was 1600.00 an she don't hold a candle to my 375 maltese on looks or personality as far as that goes. So price is not nothing to me it is the love you have to give these fur animals or I should human animals. I have been lied to by breeders screwed over by telling me they was AKC an wasn't told I would have full breeding rights an AKC papers an never got so all I can say when you invest your money on a maltese be careful. It don't matter to me I have been hurt burned an stolen from on my fur kidz but you know something I love these fur balls with all my heart an if I could keep all them in my house I would(my hubby is thinking we need to build a bigger house cause I keep all the ones I can't part with) If I have to work nights to feed my fur kidz I will do it an for vet bills. Price is not a ordeal when it comes to taken care of my kidz. But don't let nobody tell yoiu that a cheap maltese won't bring you allot of love an happiness in your family cuase there wrong. So what if there not perfect I am not either thank God he didn't say I was lesser quality then the others cause I am not. This is my opion on Maltese they all need loved an they all need homes no matter what there price is it is just money . If I could give all my babies away to good homes an know they would be taken care of well I would do it no money will buy my dog if they go to live in cages an not be able to play an enjoy life I don't want none of my babies to go to be baby machines ither. I want my kids to be spoiled rotten like I do my own. 
Teaco


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## Char-Luv-4-Maltese

> _Originally posted by puppy_luv4life+Apr 13 2005, 06:49 PM-->
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> @Apr 12 2005, 09:59 AM
> *I don't think we are giving her parents enough credit here.  If my child would come here and talk about getting a maltese, I'd be thrilled that they were getting inside info. Perhaps his/her parents already understand the financial issues(dude, how do we know they aren't loaded?)...and are letting his/her get a maltese b/c they wouldn't mind having one themselves?
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THANK YOU THANL YOU THANL YOU THANK YOU!... thats exactly what i was thinking! .. i fell so lov







ed! lol thanks bunches!!















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Amen! It is just money a maltese is far more to me then a price. If you get one for free love it an care for it doesn't make it lesser quality then one that cost a lot. Thereis some out their that wouild like a pet not nothing more but us poor people can't afford all those high prices an that is ok. Doesn't mean if it cost less that it is full of health problems ither. Follow your heart if it is wrong lean from it but always love your maltese no mattter the price it cost is my saying
Teaco


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## puppy_luv4life

TEACO!.... lol u're awsome dude! lol







(high 5) LoL


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## joe

> _Originally posted by puppy_luv4life_@Apr 13 2005, 08:34 PM
> *TEACO!.... lol u're awsome dude! lol
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> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52418*


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i like your attitude


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## Airmid

I'm going to add my 2 cents on this topic.

I have my malty girl, Angel. I love her, and I adore her-but she is now considered my daughters little dog. Angel sleeps with Rebecca, Rebecca walks her, feeds her, brushes her, and cleans up accidents. She also plays with her, and pays the most attention to her. (she does spend days with me simpy because I'm home and I love her little personality-but I really don;t have to do much except carry her around and walk her once during the day.)

I watch to make sure it's all done right and done all the time, but my daughter is 8 years old, and is doing a great job. If something isn;t done right, I'd let her know, but she has watched us care for our animals for her entire life, and she truly is a great dog owner. When Angel had her "hypoglycemic episode" last week-Rebecca wanted to pay for the vet visit. I paid for most of it-because she simply doesn't get that much allowence and child labor is illegal...*giggle*.

I think a teenager can be quite responsible for a dog, or just about any pet. Vet bills are high, but if a parent is willing to lend support, and the teen is willing to save for shots and any emergency that may arise-why not?

Rebecca saves her money and is acting very responsibly-I have no doubt that when someone takes it upon herself to come to a Maltese forum, ask questions and wants to learn that they will make a fine malt-mommy.

I want pictures of this puppy!!!


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## nataliecmu

> _Originally posted by Airmid_@Apr 14 2005, 06:59 AM
> *I'm going to add my 2 cents on this topic.
> 
> I have my malty girl, Angel. I love her, and I adore her-but she is now considered my daughters little dog. Angel sleeps with Rebecca, Rebecca walks her, feeds her, brushes her, and cleans up accidents. She also plays with her, and pays the most attention to her. (she does spend days with me simpy because I'm home and I love her little personality-but I really don;t have to do much except carry her around and walk her once during the day.)
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> I watch to make sure it's all done right and done all the time, but my daughter is 8 years old, and is doing a great job. If something isn;t done right, I'd let her know, but she has watched us care for our animals for her entire life, and she truly is a great dog owner. When Angel had her "hypoglycemic episode" last week-Rebecca wanted to pay for the vet visit. I paid for most of it-because she simply doesn't get that much allowence and child labor is illegal...*giggle*.
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> I think a teenager can be quite responsible for a dog, or just about any pet. Vet bills are high, but if a parent is willing to lend support, and the teen is willing to save for shots and any emergency that may arise-why not?
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> Rebecca saves her money and is acting very responsibly-I have no doubt that when someone takes it upon herself to come to a Maltese forum, ask questions and wants to learn that they will make a fine malt-mommy.
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> I want pictures of this puppy!!!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52496*


[/QUOTE]


So I tried to stay as far away from this post as possible, but now that it seems a little more positive I'll join in








When we got our first shih tzu from our parents (Muffin, who I talk about all the time) I was only 7, and let me tell you... we took care of that dog. She ended up pretty sick too, and my brother, sister and I were always responsible for her. When she died my sister was only 17 and she was my sisters dog. 


Now bring out the tissue--
Yes pets are expensive, and yes they are a lot of responsibility-- but they also are able to do things for a family that nothing else can. Pets are FUN, pets make people show emotion (good or bad







) and pets give some people comfort (I would be one of these people...Tini at 7 lbs protects me from everything!!! :lol: ). 


puppy_luv4life: good for you for doing your research.









Besides, who says that since I'm 23 I am way more qualified to raise a pet? I know people who have the mentality of a 4 year old who have SKIN kids...that's really who we should be worried about...









K...that's all from me.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom

> _Originally posted by MomtwoMaltmuffins_@Apr 13 2005, 11:12 PM
> *Maybe it is society, everything has to be perfect perfect perfect otherwise you are a nobody - LOL I guess I must be a nobody and my kids too and my husband LOL  but we are happy nobodies.
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Loved your post!















HA HA HA!!! I guess we are nobodies too!














I don't care....all my byb dogs and my imperfect kids....my "mutt" cats born in barns  FOR SHAME!!!!
I love my family!!!


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## Maxismom

1700 for maxi


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## MalteseJane

My BYB had her 4 dogs (2 males, 2 females different ages) living with them inside their house. There were NO cages. The yard was sprayed for fleas. The puppies were in a pen made with baby gates and kept in the kitchen. I doubt that there are many breeders out there who do all the testing recommended.


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## Vikki and Audrey

Audrey was $1600 but we live in an expensive part of the country and she has champion bloodlines (not that we care, she won't be shown).

A lot of Malts here go for above $5000, so Audrey was a bargain and worth every cent!!!


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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by MomtwoMaltmuffins_@Apr 13 2005, 08:12 PM
> *How can you deny a kid the right to have a puppy?  She has done her research and also already owns a dog.  When people come here asking for advice I think it would be nice to helpful rather than chew them out right off the bat and being so judgemental.
> 
> There are others on the forum in their teens that own Maltese, who is any different.  Money is not everything, a $2000 pup can have just as much or more than a $600 pup.  Just because a pup did not come from a show breeder, and if somone only wants a pet is that so bad to get a maltese from a BYB?  Some BYB love their pets and care and love them as part of their family, not kept in cages.  I almost bought from one lady who I know, she is I guess what you would call a BYB, but I would not hesitate to buy from her at all.  She grew up with Maltese, they are her family I have seen the love and care she gives to them.  She does not have pups that often either.  Usually only a couple of litters and that is it, she waits till they are two and by five that is it no more pups.  She only has about 4 females all different ages they are her family members.
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> Maybe it is society, everything has to be perfect perfect perfect otherwise you are a nobody - LOL I guess I must be a nobody and my kids too and my husband LOL  but we are happy nobodies.
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> Is it a crime if she goes to college, how do we know this little Maltese Keelie will not be a family pet loved and cared by all.  Who knows the day she gets married this little dog might even be part of the wedding party.  I know I really wished we had Digby when I was married she would have been our little flower girl, ring bearer.
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> I say if  your heart is in it, go for it.  You will have many happy years together.
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AwWwW... perfectly said!


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## puppylucy

-edit-

misunderstood posts; deleted cuz i don't want to start anything else.


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## puppy_luv4life

> _Originally posted by Airmid_@Apr 14 2005, 02:59 AM
> *I want pictures of this puppy!!!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52496*


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i don't have pics yet because shes not born







but i will take and post LOTZ of pics... BUT i have pictures of pepper........ 

It wouldn't work on the post thing cuz i donno how to do it! lol so whats your personal e-maiL?.. i'll attach em!


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## LexiAndNikkisMom

> _Originally posted by puppy_luv4life+Apr 14 2005, 04:37 PM-->
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i don't have pics yet because shes not born







but i will take and post LOTZ of pics... BUT i have pictures of pepper........ 

It wouldn't work on the post thing cuz i donno how to do it! lol so whats your personal e-maiL?.. i'll attach em!
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52688
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Go to the Introduce yourself section. At the top of the page there are instructions on how to post pictures.


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## puppy_luv4life

sorry they're so big!........

Me and Pepper!.....








Pepper.....









i have more but they're saved on my computer and i'm on my dads... so i'll get em eventually!!!


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## FannyMay

> _Originally posted by puppylucy_@Apr 14 2005, 05:34 PM
> *about the whole 'shes young, can she care for it? thing'
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> i'm 14. and i am pretty much the sole caregiver for lucy. i walk her 2x a day (parents do during day..), feed her, give instructions to the groomer, talk to the vet, play with her, sleep with her, etc etc etc. my parents finance me, yeah, but i still am perfectly capable of caring for her.. does that make sense? hoping it does..
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No one is saying that this girl can't take care of a Maltese because of her age. Even you said that your parents "finance" your dog and you just take care of her. We just want to be sure that her parents will pay for vet visits if this dog needs them. We also want to make sure she doesn't get a sickly dog and having to pay more vet bills because of it. 

I took care of my family’s pets when I was younger too but I didn’t pay their vet bills, my parents did. I didn’t buy them toys, food, and other things they needed, my parents did. I could not possible have taken care of them like they should have been because I couldn’t afford to (not even when I had a job in high school). 

We just want to be sure that puppy_luv4life isn’t getting her parents to get her this dog because she is promising to care for the pup more than she actually can. We want to be sure that it’s a family decision because it will be a family responsibility. She needs to consider everything we said before getting the dog so that it doesn’t end up in a shelter or rescue, or bouncing from home to home. If she can answer all those questions with a yes then fine, get a Maltese puppy. If her family is willing to pay vet bills and all the other bills that come with a puppy, and if they agree to care for the dog even after she goes to college then it’s safe to say that they can give this dog a good FOREVER home. That’s all we want, for this dog to have a forever home and not just a temporary home.

And for all of you defending BYB, no one (at least not me) is saying that BYB don't love their pets. My aunt was a BYB for dachshunds and that's how I got my childhood dachshund. She sold the sisters and had two boys that she couldn't sell and she gave one to my family because she saw how I bonded with him and the other to my grandmother. She loved her dog (she had the female) and those puppies (think she did 2-3 liters). Anyway just because you love and care for your pet doesn't mean that you can breed them. If everyone that loved and took care of their pet decided to breed, we would be even more overpopulated with dogs than we are now. Shouldn't we try and put a stop to all the neglected and unwanted dogs out there? There are thousands of dogs in shelters and rescue, and BYB are just adding to that by breeding when they shouldn't be.

By the way, Pepper's cute. I knew a family that had a dog that looked just like that (only a little older) with the name Pepper too.


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## sheila2182

Great pics.Thank you for shareing them.


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## puppylucy

now i'm embarassed.. i interpreted all this as "she's too young, she can't take care of it.." ugh.







sorry for misunderstanding


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## sheila2182

FannyMay,your post makes me think that "you" do not think her and her family have already talked about all of this.Im sure they have,it is a family decision before any pet is added. BYB are not the "only " ones adding to the over population in shelters and rescues.There are alot of expensive dogs that find their way there also for one reason or another.As I know all to well from my Lamby.


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## FannyMay

> _Originally posted by sheila2182_@Apr 14 2005, 06:33 PM
> *FannyMay,your post makes me think that "you" do not think her and her family have already talked about all of this.Im sure they have,it is a family decision before any pet is added. BYB are not the "only " ones adding to the over population in shelters and rescues.There are alot of expensive dogs that find their way there also for one reason or another.As I know all to well from my Lamby.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52713*


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Yes that is true, BUT reputable breeders ask you to give the dog back if you can't keep it anymore. BYB don't. So BYB dogs end up in shelters and rescues because they don't go back to the breeder.

And if there were ONLY reputable breeders then there would be very little (if any) dogs left in shelters and rescues because there would be less dogs bread. 

And "I" was not the only one asking this girl questions on weather her parents would pay for the vet. She even said herself that she thinks her dad would pay for the vet but not if it got too expensive. Doesn't sound like her family talked about it as much as you think or else she would know the answer to that question better.


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## FannyMay

Everyone on this board knows how against puppy mills I am. I know puppy mills are a BIGGER problem than BYB but it's still a fact that BYB are a problem! We can't be all up in arms against puppy mills and ignore the lesser of two evils, BYB. And I know there are other reasons for dogs being in shelters and rescue. I said there would be LESS.


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## miko's mommy

> _Originally posted by FannyMay_@Apr 14 2005, 04:10 PM
> *But it's still a fact that BYB are a problem!  We can't be all up in arms against puppy mills and ignore the lesser of two evils, BYB.  And I know there are other reasons for dogs being in shelters and rescue.  I said there would be LESS.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52733*


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Fanny May,

I completely agree about BYB. Although it may not seem that they are a problem, I think that they in fact are. First of all, they are not breeding to better the breed. And sometimes, they are breeding dogs who are themselves not even close to being within the breed's standard. Lots of times, they use bigger dogs, with awful coats and who probably have lots of health problems. 

Our little boy came from a BYB. I love him with all my heart. I would NEVER trade him for anything. However, when we were looking for a pup, I didn't know better. In fact, its amazing that I didn't end up at the pet store. However, now that I do know better, I would never support a BYB. While I understand that some top, reputable breeders are charging extremely high prices, its not always the case. I think its possible to find a reputable breeder, who shows and will charge reasonble price for a pet quality dog.


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## littlepeanut

I'm just gonna say that your pics are great!!!! Pepper is soooo cute!







Thanks for sharing with us


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## k/c mom

My first Maltese Rosebud and my Kallie both came from BYB. I would never go that route again. I didn't know any better at the time and at the time I never would have thought to own a dog with lots of champions in his/her bloodline. I was of the mindset that I was looking for a pet and who needs champions. Both BYB were two of the nicest people I have met. Lovely people... Rosebud's breeders were the local symphony conductor and his wife.... they were breeding their two pet store Malts. Kallie's breeder also was just the greatest gal... so loving toward the pups..... However......

I now know that champions mean that the dogs in the puppy's bloodline have been proven to have met the breed standard at least. In most cases those showing Malts do not sell them before 12 weeks. Both Rosebud's and Kallie's breeders wanted me to take them at 7 weeks... I stretched it to almost 8.... still too soon. Neither asked me any questions to make sure I would take proper care of them. Neither gave me any information or advice whatsoever. I am just very lucky that they didn't get hypoglycemia because I had never even heard of it until Catcher's breeder sent me tons of info on caring for a Malt puppy and it was included in the information. 

Rosebud had a ton of medical problems. So far, KNOCK ON WOOD, Kallie has been very healthy. But at least with a breeder who knows the history of her dogs, if she is ethical she will not breed again dogs who she has been informed have produced puppies who go on to have genetic medical issues. Of course the operative word here is "ethical".

I don't think because the BYB keeps the dogs in the house and loves them, etc. it makes it OK to sell them at 8 weeks to just about anyone who has the cash.

I know this is a volitile issue here and I hesitated to even post, but I did want to share my thoughts on this. Everyone is very passionate about their point of view. I have bought from both types of breeders and can see the difference in many ways. I can see how some of you would feel positive toward BYB, but I just don't happen to agree.


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## k/c mom

> _Originally posted by puppy_luv4life_@Apr 14 2005, 05:57 PM
> *sorry they're so big!........
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> 
> i have more but they're saved on my computer and i'm on my dads... so i'll get em eventually!!!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52694*


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Hey, those pics are really cute!!


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## sheila2182

Just because reputable breeders ask that the dogs be returned does not mean that the"owners "do or will for alot of different reasons.Such was Lambys case and may more that I know of also.I do not dispute the feelings about all our views on puppy mills and SOME so called BYB,I disagree though that many put them all in the same catagory.I do not feel they are ALL a like.
As far as her parents,im sure they have discussed getting this puppy.I cannot believe that they would get a puppy and not discuse the pros and cons even though it make not come across that way.No one is going to buy a pet and not talk about money,vets,costs,care etc.They are not just going to go buy a pet and and never talk about these things.


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## miko's mommy

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom_@Apr 14 2005, 04:40 PM
> *I know this is a volitile issue here and I hesitated to even post, but I did want to share my thoughts on this.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52742*


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I sometimes forget just how volitile this issue is on here. I don't know why I continue to post on this topic. I am really not trying to start an argument, but merely want to express my view (and support FannyMay's).


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## Airmid

I am an Ex-breeder. I bred my Champion Cane Corso Female to a Champion Male. She had 4 puppies. I know where they are, how they are, what they look like and have made sure the 2 that were not show quality were neutered. My dog had every test possible for any problem that could possibly arise.

I bred one litter-I could have been considered a BYB simply because I did keep all the dogs in the house. I also had a waiting list of 12 (deposits) before I had her bred. The pups went to homes at 8 weeks (they weighed close to 20 pounds-I think they were ready) and paperwork was witheld until neutering was proven.

Interviews? I interviewed like a mad woman, and my husband would chuckle and ask if we were rehoming our children. But it WAS like that.

Any breeder should offer a guarantee-a good one. a long term one, and a solid one. With the CCs it included the most probable parts to go bad-3 years on hips, elbow, and cardio. I also required puppy kindergarten and formal PROFESSIONAL obedience training. (A 140 pound dog is NO fun to live with if he has bad manners!)

Those are some things to look for with a breeder-most of all someone who makes you feel almost "unworthy" of they babies-cares for them and what happens.


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## k/c mom

> _Originally posted by okw+Apr 14 2005, 07:48 PM-->
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*I sometimes forget just how volitile this issue is on here. I don't know why I continue to post on this topic. * I am really not trying to start an argument, but merely want to express my view (and support FannyMay's).
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I think you post because this is a forum and that's what its purpose is. If everyone were too intimidated to post, this forum wouldn't exist! Keep sharing your thoughts... I, for one, enjoy hearing what you have to say!


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## CandicePK

My opinion about breeders is a simple one. It depends on *who* you are dealing with. Show breeder or a so called BYB - in the end it's about *who* you are dealing with and their scruples.

For me the bottom line is you cannot group them all together regardless of what type of breeding they do.


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## puppy_luv4life

Whats BYB?? lol..


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## puppylucy

BYB = backyard breeder


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## k/c mom

I'm getting the feeling from reading some of these posts that there is a terrible misunderstanding. I don't believe that any of us who prefer not to buy from a BYB are doing so in any way as an elitist act. Most, if not all, of us who have posted that we would not buy from a BYB have already purchased from one and simply prefer not to buy from one again, for the reasons stated in our posts, which I think are valid. I don't understand what this "nobodies" thing is... and why all the sarcasm.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom_@Apr 14 2005, 09:34 PM
> *I'm getting the feeling from reading some of these posts that there is a terrible misunderstanding. I don't believe that any of us who prefer not to buy from a BYB are doing so in any way as an elitist act.  Most, if not all, of us who have posted that we would not buy from a BYB have already purchased from one and simply prefer not to buy from one again, for the reasons stated in our posts, which I think are valid. I don't understand what this "nobodies" thing is... and why all the sarcasm.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52820*


[/QUOTE]


Maybe I am too sensitive,







but the "air" on here is that if your pup came from a "byb", that it is "less" of a dog than the ones that came from "reputable breeders", and that the dog itself is just a problem (illnesses) waiting to happen.







I know I am not the only one that has gotten that impression on here. I for one, get tired of hearing it. I think there is a way to educate people on the differences without making the ones who have pups that did come from byb's feel inferior. JMO.

AND in my opinion also....there are poor byb's and more "reputable "byb's". I feel it is important to know the signs to look for.


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## sheila2182

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Apr 15 2005, 09:59 AM-->
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> @Apr 14 2005, 09:34 PM
> *I'm getting the feeling from reading some of these posts that there is a terrible misunderstanding. I don't believe that any of us who prefer not to buy from a BYB are doing so in any way as an elitist act.  Most, if not all, of us who have posted that we would not buy from a BYB have already purchased from one and simply prefer not to buy from one again, for the reasons stated in our posts, which I think are valid. I don't understand what this "nobodies" thing is... and why all the sarcasm.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52820*
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Maybe I am too sensitive,







but the "air" on here is that if your pup came from a "byb", that it is "less" of a dog than the ones that came from "reputable breeders", and that the dog itself is just a problem (illnesses) waiting to happen.







I know I am not the only one that has gotten that impression on here. I for one, get tired of hearing it. I think there is a way to educate people on the differences without making the ones who have pups that did come from byb's feel inferior. JMO.

AND in my opinion also....there are poor byb's and more "reputable "byb's". I feel it is important to know the signs to look for.
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I TOTALLY AGREE with you Traci.


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## pico's parent

I think the big picture in this subject is really to highlight the importance of KNOWING YOUR BREEDER. Those of us who purchased or otherwise acquired our babies from BYB or pet stores have had our hearts broken when our babies developed MVD, allergies, luxating patellas, etc. and just don't want other babies and their owners to go through the same things.

Pico is by no means a "lesser" dog than any properly bred Maltese, it's just that his chances of being healthy for life were sharply decreased by his breeding.

I have been on this forum for a long time now and have yet to see an elitest Maltese owner here.......we are all just unashamedly madly in love with our furbabies and can get quite passionate about it.


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## HappyB

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@Apr 15 2005, 10:07 AM
> *I think the big picture in this subject is really to highlight the importance of KNOWING YOUR BREEDER.  Those of us who purchased or otherwise acquired our babies from BYB or pet stores have had our hearts broken when our babies developed MVD, allergies, luxating patellas, etc. and just don't want other babies and their owners to go through the same things.
> 
> Pico is by no means a "lesser" dog than any properly bred Maltese, it's just that his chances of being healthy for life were sharply decreased by his breeding.
> 
> I have been on this forum for a long time now and have yet to see an elitest Maltese owner here.......we are all just unashamedly madly in love with our furbabies and can get quite passionate about it.
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Your words are so true. And, we have yet to see a post from anyone, regardless of where they got their pup, reporting testing on parents or their pup.


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## pico's parent

LucyLou,

Who pays for the DNA and shunt testing? The breeder or the potential owner? If I ever get another dog I will request testing results and pay for them myself if I have to.

I just spent another 5 hours with Pico in tummy distress last night and we suspect a food allergy but I can't stand to see him so upset. My vet said it could be related to his Microvascular Dysplasia but we are going the food allergy route first, eliminating wheat in his diet initially.

I know there is no such thing as perfect health but you gotta try!


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## msmagnolia

I really hate that this has become such a touchy subject and that people have gotten their feelings hurt. I don't believe that any comments that are ever made about acquiring a dog are aimed at those that already have them. Our dogs, whatever circumstances they were born in, are parts of our families and we'll stick with them no matter what happens in the future. In a perfect world all the little maltese would live long, healthy and happy lives. Since none of the advice or comments are aimed at the dogs that we already have, then they are aimed at people considering a maltese, or those of us who wish to acquire another one. I honestly feel that there is always more information that can be learned to improve our chances of having healthy furbabies.

Years ago I bought a cocker spaniel from an ad in the paper. The people loved their mama dog and wanted her to have puppies - the classic American story. They found a champion male and bred the two. There was no testing, no checking into backgrounds. I personally experienced 14 years with a dog who was a fear biter, aggressive and generally unpleasant. We made mistakes, too. She was pre-children and we treated her like a princess. We didn't know how to take control. 

When we got Jolie we researched and did a better job of checking into breeders and we also did a better job of preparing ourselves to train a dog. Great success!

When we got Sadie we did even more research. I'll be honest with you, though... I'm embarrassed at how much we paid. I haven't even told my own mother the real amount that we paid and we did it TWICE (Sassy). And you know what???? As wonderful as our breeder is, she didn't do the bile test and other testing that JMM and Lady's Mom recommend. Would I buy another puppy from her? Yes I would, but I would insist on the testing, even if I had to pay for it. (Lucy Lou - this will be one answer to your question that you've gotten so few responses to!) 

So, in being part of this board I have learned some things that I didn't know. Do I think that my puppies are inferior or superior to anyone elses? NO. It's all a learning process and we can ALL learn from each other. Then we go out and make decisions armed with as much info as we can possibly get. I certainly wouldn't go into debt to buy a maltese. I think there are nice puppies out there that don't cost a fortune. But we can't get around the fact that even healthy dogs require some expense. 

The original poster asked some questions and people tried to answer them. No one wants to deprive a poor kid of their chance for a dog. All that any of us are trying to do is put the info out there. When she gets her dog we will all be thrilled and excited for her.


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## FannyMay

> _Originally posted by sheila2182_@Apr 14 2005, 07:42 PM
> *As far as her parents,im sure they have discussed getting this puppy.I cannot believe that they would get a puppy and not discuse the pros and cons even though it make not come across that way.No one is going to buy a pet and not talk about money,vets,costs,care etc.They are not just going to go buy a pet and  and never talk about these things.
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It would be nice to think that EVERYONE that decides to buy a pet (of any kind) discusses the expense and everything else having to do with the pet, but that's just not true. I know because when we got Fantasia we didn't discuss anything except that I wanted a Maltese so I wouldn't be so lonely during the day when my husband was at work. We looked and looked till we found her and then we just bought her. We didn't think about the expense till we had her. 
Yes I know this was bad, but now we know better. People come here to learn (and if they don't then they learn something weather they wanted to or not). I just want to educate people because I wasn't educated and wish that I had been.



> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@Apr 15 2005, 11:07 AM
> *I think the big picture in this subject is really to highlight the importance of KNOWING YOUR BREEDER.  Those of us who purchased or otherwise acquired our babies from BYB or pet stores have had our hearts broken when our babies developed MVD, allergies, luxating patellas, etc. and just don't want other babies and their owners to go through the same things.
> 
> Pico is by no means a "lesser" dog than any properly bred Maltese, it's just that his chances of being healthy for life were sharply decreased by his breeding.
> 
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I agree. I don't want to make anyone feel like their dog is less than any one else’s. I don't want to offend anyone. I don't want to make anyone feel inferior to anyone else either. 
My Fantasia is a puppy mill dog so that would mean that if I believed they were inferior then she would be and I don't think that way at all. I love my baby and think she is the best dog in the world. I know everyone else feels the same way about their babies too.
So those that didn’t know any better have already gotten their pups and they are loved. But those that have not gotten their pups should be educated and make an educated decision. I would have loved it if someone told me all that I know now, before I got Fantasia. I do not regret getting her because I love her and wouldn't trade her for anything, but I would not have gone to a pet store to get a dog and I would have a healthier dog. Even though she hasn't cost us alot of money in vet bills right now, I know down the road she will. I would have appreciated knowing this before I got her.


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## miko's mommy

> _Originally posted by msmagnolia_@Apr 15 2005, 08:56 AM
> *I really hate that this has become such a touchy subject and that people have gotten their feelings hurt.  I don't believe that any comments that are ever made about acquiring a dog are aimed at those that already have them.  Our dogs, whatever circumstances they were born in, are parts of our families and we'll stick with them no matter what happens in the future.  In a perfect world all the little maltese would live long, healthy and happy lives.  Since none of the advice or comments are aimed at the dogs that we already have, then they are aimed at people considering a maltese, or those of us who wish to acquire another one.  I honestly feel that there is always more information that can be learned to improve our chances of having healthy furbabies.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52916*


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My comments were never aimed at those who already have their dogs. Just as I have stated, I have a baby from BYB. And I don't really understand some of the other responses. This was never a personal attacks. Having just paid thousands for Miko's luxating patellas surgery, I hope to educated others BEFORE they buy on what to look for. Testing parents and pups is extremely important. I do hope to have more dogs in the future. I will never buy a dog now without having the pup and the parents be tested for luxating patellas (amongst other things).

Also, even though my little baby is from a BYB, I don't feel that he is inferior in any way. In fact, my husband and I are convinced that he is the cutest maltese we have ever seen!! I would never trade him for anything. But I do have to be realistic about his health (and other issues).


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## k/c mom

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Apr 15 2005, 10:59 AM-->
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> @Apr 14 2005, 09:34 PM
> *I'm getting the feeling from reading some of these posts that there is a terrible misunderstanding. I don't believe that any of us who prefer not to buy from a BYB are doing so in any way as an elitist act.  Most, if not all, of us who have posted that we would not buy from a BYB have already purchased from one and simply prefer not to buy from one again, for the reasons stated in our posts, which I think are valid. I don't understand what this "nobodies" thing is... and why all the sarcasm.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52820*
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Maybe I am too sensitive,







but the "air" on here is that if your pup came from a "byb", that it is "less" of a dog than the ones that came from "reputable breeders", and that the dog itself is just a problem (illnesses) waiting to happen.







I know I am not the only one that has gotten that impression on here. I for one, get tired of hearing it. I think there is a way to educate people on the differences without making the ones who have pups that did come from byb's feel inferior. JMO.

AND in my opinion also....there are poor byb's and more "reputable "byb's". I feel it is important to know the signs to look for.
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[/B][/QUOTE]

I have purchased two Malts from BYB and I don't feel inferior as a result of that at all. I don't feel Rosebud was nor that Kallie is inferior in any way.... I think Kallie is so great that when it was time for a 2nd Malt I contacted the same BYB to see if she was going to breed her two dogs again. She was and I told her I would wait for one of her pups. I then started getting impatient so I looking around on the internet and found another breeder and saw the difference in the look of her pups as well as how she knew so much about the breed, etc. and it was then that the light finally clicked for me and I realized that I prefer not to buy from a BYB again. Hearing further info here convinces me that my decision was the right one for me.


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## HappyB

The breeder should do the testing. It should be done on the parents before they are bred, and on the pups before they are sold.

The point I keep trying to make it that there is a lot of criticism about byb and health problems, but it's unfair to do this when one can't say that there is adequate testing being done by those who are considered "reputable". True, some have started doing it, but the testing is still in the infancy with many of those considered top breeders. I've started it here, but I'm just as guilty in that I have bred dogs who haven't had the bile testing done. The last pup I purchased came from a sire whose breeder posted on another site that she had started it, but testing wasn't done on my dog's sire, and like MsMagnolia, I didn't even tell my family what I paid for him!

So, my opinion here is -- lighten up on those who got their dogs from byb, etc. because while the risks might not be as great coming from show homes where the lines are know, it's still there if the testing hasn't been done.


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## k/c mom

> _Originally posted by LucyLou_@Apr 15 2005, 02:07 PM
> *So, my opinion here is -- lighten up on those who got their dogs from byb, etc. because while the risks might not be as great coming from show homes where the lines are know, it's still there if the testing hasn't been done.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52950*


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It is not just the testing or lack thereof that bothers me.... there are other aspects of BYB that make me not want to buy my next Malt from one. For example, I believe that a large majority of BYB's let their dogs go from 6-8 weeks old. They often don't know or give care advice; they often breed pet store (puppymill) dogs where they have no idea of the health of the dam and sire of their own dogs; they often sell to anyone who has the money without making sure the dog is a right fit for the family (such as do they have small children who might be too rough on a fragile Malt). ......

LucyLou, I am a little confused on your stance regarding BYB after reading your other post where you say, "My response back was that breeding should be done to improve the breed, and that if I sold one that I felt could not be finished in the ring, I would be no better than a back yard breeder. " Are you OK with them (BYB), or not OK? I hope this does not come across as being "smart alecky" because it is not meant that way ... I truly am interested in your thoughts on this.


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## Pippinsmom

LucyLou...

I was wondering if you could tell us exactly what tests should be done in your opinion. I am assuming OFA certification of patellas and a liver panel...is there anything else we need to be aware of or start asking about? I agree with you 100% that these tests NEED to be done on all breeding stock and puppies should not be placed in their new homes until a liver panel is run. I am very surprised that hardly any breeders do these tests...I guess I just assumed that if a breeder was reputable they would be doing these tests and I didn't need to ask. Now I know better...thank you for the information!


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## ButterCloudandNoriko

> _Originally posted by MomtwoMaltmuffins_@Apr 15 2005, 06:09 PM
> *but instead perhaps give them a list of questions they might want to ask the breeder.  Hmm maybe that is good thing we can work on here.  Put together a list ...
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=53035*


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This is a good idea. 

Essentially, we want the best for Maltese and we want the best choices to be made. You cant completely disagree nor agree with the opposition. So lets just take what we all say for what it is and say that we have done the best we can to educate puppy luv4life or any newbie. 

I think Lady'smom already posted up a list of questions one may/should ask a breeder and red flags and etc.


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## k/c mom

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Apr 15 2005, 07:27 PM
> *I think Lady'smom already posted up a list of questions one may/should ask a breeder and red flags and etc.
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Here is her post:

FROM LADY'S MOM:

This is a good article on how to recognize a good breeder. (It's a general guide, so the age when the pup leaves the mother should be 12 weeks for a Maltese)

HOW TO RECOGNIZE A REPUTABLE DOG BREEDER
by Linda Hazen Lewin

So, you've decided the pet for you is a purebred dog...good for you! Maybe. The question is, how do you find a reputable breeder? There are so many ads in the newspaper and so much conflicting information, and most of the books you read only mention the positive characteristics of the various breeds. (Common sense tells you every breed can't be as perfect as it is described!) How do you find someone who will be honest with you about their breed so you can make a truly informed choice?

The following are some of the typical characteristics of a reputable breeder:

1. Reputable breeders only produce a litter with the goal of improving their breed and with the full intent of keeping a puppy from the litter with which to continue their efforts. They do not breed to make money, to supply the pet market during a wave of breed popularity, to give the kids a sex education, or simply because they happen to have two dogs of the same breed on the premises. These last are all spurious reasons to add more dogs to the current population. If the breeder has produced a litter for a silly reason, beware!

2. Reputable breeders nearly always belong to a local or national breed club and they actively compete with their dogs. Competitions include licensed dog shows, field trials, obedience trials, herding trials, tracking events, earth dog trials and sled dog racing (among others). Reputable breeders know that AKC registration alone does not confer or imply quality or breeding value, any more than a DMV registration means you have a top quality car. Competition with other well-bred dogs helps to gauge whether a given dog is worthy of being bred; whether it offers its breed virtues that are worth reproducing. If the breeder does not belong to any dog organizations or compete with their dogs, beware!

3. Reputable breeders are willing and eager to spend time with you, explaining, teaching and advising you about their breed. They will make the disadvantages of owning their breed crystal clear, and it may be the first topic of conversation! No breed is perfect for everyone, and the responsible breeder wants to be absolutely sure that you really want, and are prepared to care for, this kind of dog for the life of the dog, not just during the "cute puppy stage". If the breeder does not go into breed peculiarities, beware!

4. Reputable breeders will screen you carefully, to assure your suitability for owning their breed. They will not sell a large, active dog to an apartment dweller or to someone without a fence, for example, nor a tiny toy dog to a home with small children. It is cruel to place a dog in an unsuitable home, and unethical to strap people with an unsuitable dog. A reputable breeder will refuse a sale, regardless of any personal financial strain or the amount of work involved, rather than place any dog in an unworkable situation. If the breeder does not question you closely about your home, your family, and your expectations of the dog, beware!

5. Reputable breeders sell only healthy stock, fully vetted, and guaranteed for some reasonable length of time after the sale. Their dogs are tested for any genetic deficiencies which can be detected by the age at which the dog is sold. Puppies should never be offered for sale any younger than 7 weeks of age, and preferably 8 weeks. If they are, you may be sure they have not had all their shots. Adult dogs offered for sale should be completely up to date on shots, recently wormed and heartworm-tested. Records of all veterinary treatments and testing should be offered to you in writing. If vaccinations are not complete and up to date, breed-appropriate testing for genetic defects hasn't been done (or the breeder says "Oh, that's not a problem in this breed" when you know it is), puppies are offered for sale at an extremely young age, or the breeder's dogs appear unwell, beware!

6. Reputable breeders offer, or even require, that any dog they sell be returned to them if your situation changes so that you cannot keep the dog. This applies whether the dog is 10 weeks old or 10 years old. No responsible breeder wants their dogs to end life in the pound, on the streets, or shuffled from one unsuitable home to another because the dog's family can't keep it any longer. Many breeders are also involved, on some level, in breed "rescue" work. When notified, they spend their own time and money to collect the abandoned dog, have it vetted, trained and socialized if necessary, and find it a loving home. While a breeder might not specifically mention involvement in rescue work, if he or she cranks out multiple litters a year, acts as a broker, or makes no mention of taking a dog back from you if your situation changes, chances are they are more concerned with taking your money than with taking responsibility for the puppies they have produced...beware!

7. Reputable breeders stay in touch with you on a regular basis to see how you're getting on with your new dog. They do not just sell you the dog and then disappear, leaving you to cope with problems on your own. This is probably the greatest advantage to buying your dog from an experienced breeder. You not only get a healthy, well-adjusted companion, you also get a lifetime of information, advice and assistance from an expert who cares deeply about your success with the animal he has sold to you. If the breeder takes the stance that "all sales are final", beware. Remember, it is up to you, the purchaser, to make your choice wisely and to do your homework. Talk at length with as many breeders as possible, quiz each one on the above items and about their breed, and look at lots of dogs. A reputable breeder will be impressed and reassured that you are concerned about what you are doing, rather than impulse-buying. Find a breeder with whom you are comfortable, and whose dogs you like, and pick out your dream pet. Result: everybody wins!


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## HappyB

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Apr 15 2005, 01:26 PM-->
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> @Apr 15 2005, 02:07 PM
> *So, my opinion here is -- lighten up on those who got their dogs from byb, etc. because while the risks might not be as great coming from show homes where the lines are know, it's still there if the testing hasn't been done.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=52950*
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It is not just the testing or lack thereof that bothers me.... there are other aspects of BYB that make me not want to buy my next Malt from one. For example, I believe that a large majority of BYB's let their dogs go from 6-8 weeks old. They often don't know or give care advice; they often breed pet store (puppymill) dogs where they have no idea of the health of the dam and sire of their own dogs; they often sell to anyone who has the money without making sure the dog is a right fit for the family (such as do they have small children who might be too rough on a fragile Malt). ......

LucyLou, I am a little confused on your stance regarding BYB after reading your other post where you say, "My response back was that breeding should be done to improve the breed, and that if I sold one that I felt could not be finished in the ring, I would be no better than a back yard breeder. " Are you OK with them (BYB), or not OK? I hope this does not come across as being "smart alecky" because it is not meant that way ... I truly am interested in your thoughts on this.
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NO I'M NOT OK WITH BACKYARD BREEDERS. I was just trying to point out that people shouldn't be so ready to be critical of those who didn't go to one of the top show breeders for a pup based on the idea that they would get a healthier one there and not from one who is a BYB. Hopefully, the odds would be better because they do know their lines and have more understanding of the history, but without testing we just aren't going to be that sure. I'm only talking about health issues and the fact that it's not being done that much at any level. I admit that I have done some without it. I'm doing liver panels, and my vet checks the hips and legs. If I increase my breeding, then I will also do the testing more. 
There are some very good breeders out there who know quality and breed nice dogs and don't show. They also don't release their dogs until 12 weeks, are selective in placement, etc. These are few and far between. People who buy a quality pet from them are lucky. 
As for my response in the other post, I was talking about confirmation more than anything. If I had a pup for sale that didn't meet the standard for show, then the ethical thing to do would be to sell it on a spay/neuter. If I had a pup who tested with a health problem then it wouldn't be for sale at any price.


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## MalteseJane

Geez are you still at it ?







We will never agree on this topic.

IF I understand right the people who are against BYB, only show dog breeders are considered reputable breeders. IF only THOSE people would be breeding dogs I wonder how many of us would be able to get a dog. I don't think many people would be. 

Since we can only agree that we will never agree on this topic, why don't we just let go those who prefer to buy from show breeders to buy there and the ones who can afford only BYB buy from there. Either way, there is NO garanty. There are many many dogs today that have allergies, diabetes, luxating patellas etc...and not all of them come from BYB or even puppy mills. The important thing is to make people aware that a dog does not come cheap down the road and that it is at least a 12 to 15 years comittment. 

I paid 1,200 $ for Alex's surgery this year. This is the first big expense I had for him in 8 years. Well, 1,200 divided by 8 means a cost of 150 $ per year. I think this is a pretty good deal for the amount of joy I got out of it. 

I am old, so I can talk from experience. Over 30 years ago, dogs were healthier and did not need all those vet visits, as a matter of fact they rarely saw a vet. Vets at that time were more there for farm animals. And those dogs lived also to 12 years of age. They did not get dog food. They got table scraps. They did not get all those vaccines. And there were more BYB then show breeders. So why is it that today our dogs are sicker and sicker ?


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## k/c mom

> _Originally posted by LucyLou+Apr 15 2005, 08:14 PM-->
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NO I'M NOT OK WITH BACKYARD BREEDERS. I was just trying to point out that people shouldn't be so ready to be critical of those who didn't go to one of the top show breeders for a pup based on the idea that they would get a healthier one there and not from one who is a BYB. Hopefully, the odds would be better because they do know their lines and have more understanding of the history, but without testing we just aren't going to be that sure. I'm only talking about health issues and the fact that it's not being done that much at any level. I admit that I have done some without it. I'm doing liver panels, and my vet checks the hips and legs. If I increase my breeding, then I will also do the testing more. 
There are some very good breeders out there who know quality and breed nice dogs and don't show. They also don't release their dogs until 12 weeks, are selective in placement, etc. These are few and far between. People who buy a quality pet from them are lucky. 
As for my response in the other post, I was talking about confirmation more than anything. If I had a pup for sale that didn't meet the standard for show, then the ethical thing to do would be to sell it on a spay/neuter. If I had a pup who tested with a health problem then it wouldn't be for sale at any price.
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Thanks so much for the explanation.... It sounds like you and I are pretty much in agreement on this issue ......


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## puppy_luv4life

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FROM LADY'S MOM:

This is a good article on how to recognize a good breeder. (It's a general guide, so the age when the pup leaves the mother should be 12 weeks for a Maltese)

HOW TO RECOGNIZE A REPUTABLE DOG BREEDER
by Linda Hazen Lewin

So, you've decided the pet for you is a purebred dog...good for you! Maybe. The question is, how do you find a reputable breeder? There are so many ads in the newspaper and so much conflicting information, and most of the books you read only mention the positive characteristics of the various breeds. (Common sense tells you every breed can't be as perfect as it is described!) How do you find someone who will be honest with you about their breed so you can make a truly informed choice?

The following are some of the typical characteristics of a reputable breeder:

1. Reputable breeders only produce a litter with the goal of improving their breed and with the full intent of keeping a puppy from the litter with which to continue their efforts. They do not breed to make money, to supply the pet market during a wave of breed popularity, to give the kids a sex education, or simply because they happen to have two dogs of the same breed on the premises. These last are all spurious reasons to add more dogs to the current population. If the breeder has produced a litter for a silly reason, beware!

2. Reputable breeders nearly always belong to a local or national breed club and they actively compete with their dogs. Competitions include licensed dog shows, field trials, obedience trials, herding trials, tracking events, earth dog trials and sled dog racing (among others). Reputable breeders know that AKC registration alone does not confer or imply quality or breeding value, any more than a DMV registration means you have a top quality car. Competition with other well-bred dogs helps to gauge whether a given dog is worthy of being bred; whether it offers its breed virtues that are worth reproducing. If the breeder does not belong to any dog organizations or compete with their dogs, beware!

3. Reputable breeders are willing and eager to spend time with you, explaining, teaching and advising you about their breed. They will make the disadvantages of owning their breed crystal clear, and it may be the first topic of conversation! No breed is perfect for everyone, and the responsible breeder wants to be absolutely sure that you really want, and are prepared to care for, this kind of dog for the life of the dog, not just during the "cute puppy stage". If the breeder does not go into breed peculiarities, beware!

4. Reputable breeders will screen you carefully, to assure your suitability for owning their breed. They will not sell a large, active dog to an apartment dweller or to someone without a fence, for example, nor a tiny toy dog to a home with small children. It is cruel to place a dog in an unsuitable home, and unethical to strap people with an unsuitable dog. A reputable breeder will refuse a sale, regardless of any personal financial strain or the amount of work involved, rather than place any dog in an unworkable situation. If the breeder does not question you closely about your home, your family, and your expectations of the dog, beware!

5. Reputable breeders sell only healthy stock, fully vetted, and guaranteed for some reasonable length of time after the sale. Their dogs are tested for any genetic deficiencies which can be detected by the age at which the dog is sold. Puppies should never be offered for sale any younger than 7 weeks of age, and preferably 8 weeks. If they are, you may be sure they have not had all their shots. Adult dogs offered for sale should be completely up to date on shots, recently wormed and heartworm-tested. Records of all veterinary treatments and testing should be offered to you in writing. If vaccinations are not complete and up to date, breed-appropriate testing for genetic defects hasn't been done (or the breeder says "Oh, that's not a problem in this breed" when you know it is), puppies are offered for sale at an extremely young age, or the breeder's dogs appear unwell, beware!

6. Reputable breeders offer, or even require, that any dog they sell be returned to them if your situation changes so that you cannot keep the dog. This applies whether the dog is 10 weeks old or 10 years old. No responsible breeder wants their dogs to end life in the pound, on the streets, or shuffled from one unsuitable home to another because the dog's family can't keep it any longer. Many breeders are also involved, on some level, in breed "rescue" work. When notified, they spend their own time and money to collect the abandoned dog, have it vetted, trained and socialized if necessary, and find it a loving home. While a breeder might not specifically mention involvement in rescue work, if he or she cranks out multiple litters a year, acts as a broker, or makes no mention of taking a dog back from you if your situation changes, chances are they are more concerned with taking your money than with taking responsibility for the puppies they have produced...beware!

7. Reputable breeders stay in touch with you on a regular basis to see how you're getting on with your new dog. They do not just sell you the dog and then disappear, leaving you to cope with problems on your own. This is probably the greatest advantage to buying your dog from an experienced breeder. You not only get a healthy, well-adjusted companion, you also get a lifetime of information, advice and assistance from an expert who cares deeply about your success with the animal he has sold to you. If the breeder takes the stance that "all sales are final", beware. Remember, it is up to you, the purchaser, to make your choice wisely and to do your homework. Talk at length with as many breeders as possible, quiz each one on the above items and about their breed, and look at lots of dogs. A reputable breeder will be impressed and reassured that you are concerned about what you are doing, rather than impulse-buying. Find a breeder with whom you are comfortable, and whose dogs you like, and pick out your dream pet. Result: everybody wins!
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oh ya!. ... lol i wanted one..... i have a list but it dosn't go into detail! thanx bunches!


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## puppylucy

> Competitions include licensed dog shows, field trials, obedience trials, herding trials, tracking events, earth dog trials and *sled dog racing*[/B]


hahaha can you see a team of little white malts happily running along in the snow?!


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## puppylucy

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## HappyB

One of the healthiest, most loving dogs I had was a free one I got out of someone's back yard. My children always joked with me that I didn't know who her dad was. I had her for five wonderful years, until someone came on my proprerty without my permission. She never had anything after her first year's shots and her spay. She went to work with me, and got many a patient through an initial interview. When I saw children, she would walk on all fours so that she would be submissive to them. Parents were amazed their children would talk, and it was all because of my dog. Right now, I have a variety of rescues. I don't know their history. They are all healthy. Come to think of it, other than some being heartworm positive or malnourished when I got them, I've not had any health issues with any of my rescues in five years. I've had two with behavior problems. One had to be put to sleep because she would attack any dog here. The other has been here two years, and we are still working on her separation anxiety.
Just a thought.............


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## FannyMay

I am going to stop reading and posting in this thread. This will be my last post here. Please read my posts before bashing me. I never once said that I grouped all non show dog breeders into the BYB group. IMO most BYB are people who just breed their pets because they think their family should have a cute dog like them, or because they think their dog would be happy to be a mother, or they want to make some money back on how much they spent on their dog, or something along those lines. They breed two pet store dogs or pet quality dogs and think that it's ok. It's not ok! Anyone who would rather go to a "breeder" like this just to save a few bucks (because a reputable breeder is more expensive) isn't helping, but instead contributing to the problem. 
I know that there are reputable breeders out there that sell good quality dogs to people as just pets and therefore have a spay a neuter agreement with them. I know that not all reputable breeders breed just to show. I never once said anything like that! 

Puppy love4life has the information she needs to make an educated decision about buying a puppy, now it’s up to her. Now that she’s better educated I am going to stop posting in this thread. I don’t post on this forum to fight.


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## Airmid

OK_ here's a little story to lighten things up, and let you know just how silly and simple my husband has the potential to be....

A friend of ours had a Bichon, years ago. We puppysat for this little sweetie, and it happened to be late fall (COLD in NY for a little foof) So, my friend brought coats for the baby. 

ANYHOW, my husband comes home, and sees this vast array of coats, and the little foof that wears them, and he says...are you ready for this.....

"Why do they need those? What did they do in the wild?"









OK, Now, my husband is a relatively smart individual-actually very smart...however, he didn;t pay attention when they taught natural history and the evolution of species (or-maybe they just didn;t teach these things in Catholic school...I don;t know....)

Anyway, fast forward to Christmas.....

I had mentioned his little idiocy to my mother, who is loving but can tease her only son in law to death....and be very clever about it.....

We went to visit her, in northern New Jersey, for Christmas, and we're sitting in the kitchen, which has a huge picture window, overlooking her fairly woodsy back yard.... She says to me..."watch this"

She start yelling...."Oh My GOD-there they are-the little Bichons...the little white pack...oh how wonderful....!!!!!!"
My husband spins quicky to grab a look out the window before the "Bichons of the Tundra" disappear....saying "Oh! Where??"

I think he has yet to live that one down. My mother calls him "Nanook of the Bichons" 

It was priceless.


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## doctorcathy

LOL Airmid----that story is [email protected]@ 

i hate it when people say crap to me saying "what did they do in the wild". all i can say is "if a malt were in the wild--they'd be extinct".


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## Furbabymom

> _Originally posted by puppylucy_@Apr 10 2005, 08:21 PM
> *jw, how old are you?
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Even if you pay top dollar for a Maltese, you may have a dog with Luxating Patella like my Skeeter has. It is just in our breed and difficult to breed out. I love him so much and love his adorable face, cobby body and how he loves to play fetch. He is twice his estimated weight since I paid more since the breeder felt he was going to be very tiny (but my vet also felt he would be smaller than he is now but bigger than the breeder estimated) and has other problems but even reputable breeders have dogs once in a while that have problems. No dog is perfect. No breeding is without problems in dogs just like in humans. I love him so much and felt he came to me to teach me that I do not have to be perfect to be loved. I now have a good relationship with the breeder so I call her to discuss his problems. She says she is taking great care to produce Maltese without problems and is doing further testing now but it happens just like in humans when one baby is born with defects from either trauma at birth or genetics.

I think look for a breeder you trust with a price you can afford and a puppy you bond with.

Susan


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## Char-Luv-4-Maltese

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oh dear shame on us too for our 'muttcat' born in a barn.









Casper was born a by product of a rescue, heaven forbid was I going to turn my back on him because I did not know his background????
How do we know his parents were not from a reputable breeder??

I am not trying to dispute reputable breeders because there are some wonderful ones out there. Sometimes for geographic reasons, these wonderful breeders are not close by and that is case for me. I know I would not want to have a baby shipped to me by air and have it arrive cargo - I would rather go and see the home and meet the owners and the parents of the dogs and get a feel for the breeder. If it did not feel right I would not buy!! I would go elsewhere. Just like I choose to buy pet products at stores that do not sell animals. 

Just like CandicePX said, we cannot lump all breeders together, and it is "who" is the key word
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Amen, I am a small breeder an I don't do this for the money nor do I lie to people that are interested in my fur kidz just to make a sell, I love my fur kidz just like they was my flesh kidz , I love MALTESE and it upsets me to no end when others knock us small breeders(BYB) down when they don't even know us. there is no human that is perfect so how can every dog be bred for perfectionest , does humans go get tested to make sure the blood line is A one before two humans have a child Ummm can anybody answer that. I have never ever placed one of my dogs that the new owners was upset with me or my lay out how all my fur kidz are raised under my feet, I have them contact me an want more of my kidz. I just love Maltese an want to bless others at a reasonable price to know what it is to own an cherish a maltese like they have me. All maltese needs loved weahter they are perfect or not!
Teaco


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## Tyler's Sis

I think $600 for a maltese is a pretty fair deal. I got Tyler for 1k and I've even seen malteses for sale for $4,000!


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## lacey

I paid $650 for Daisy and $550 for Toby. They both came from the same breeder.


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## Matilda's mommy

I payed $1200.00 for Matilda, and then I had to pay for her airfare. As many of you know my Matilda had legg perthies diease, we were lucky that we had a vet that charged us very little. We have spent another $800. I love my Matilda and I would pay any amount to keep her healthy, but I have to say if I were going to buy another I would get a breeder who did DNA testing. Who knows how much my Matilda will cost me, I am willing to pay whatever. There isn't a price for love. I feel blessed to have her in my life, for better or worse.


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## HappyB

> I payed $1200.00 for Matilda, and then I had to pay for her airfare. As many of you know my Matilda had legg perthies diease, we were lucky that we had a vet that charged us very little. We have spent another $800. I love my Matilda and I would pay any amount to keep her healthy, but I have to say if I were going to buy another I would get a breeder who did DNA testing. Who knows how much my Matilda will cost me, I am willing to pay whatever. There isn't a price for love. I feel blessed to have her in my life, for better or worse.
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I'm afraid DNA testing won't be of benefit in telling if there are health issues. It's the test that is required for AKC registration if a sire produces more than seven littters in a lifetime or more than three in a calendar year. I would venture to think that the large producers such as puppymills who do AKC registration also do this testing, as they probably use their males that much.

I am a firm believer in testing and showing our dogs. But, I can tell you that there are those out there who will continue to show and breed dogs who can produce problems. I know someone in another breed who had a top winning dog shown to wins at Westminister whose mom produced a pup with the same condition as Matilda. The son (one with all the wins) has since produced a pup with one deformed leg. His owner's comment, when asked about why she continued to show and stud him was "well, he produces champions in every litter".


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## Ellas Proud Mommy

oh god... i'd say YEAH that's a HUGE deal. My Ella was about 4 times that. Most people would consider me nuts, BUT I say she's priceless.











love,
Whitney & Ella


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## carrie

i just wanted to add, that this thread was posted on Apr 10 2005, 04:41 PM by puppy_luv4life. she decided against a maltese, instead she got an adorable shih tzu she named rylee.


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## Char-Luv-4-Maltese

Backyard breeders are people who indiscriminately mate any two dogs just for the sake of the money. They may sell the puppies on their own or ship them to pet stores. If they are breeding several breeds of dogs they may be running a puppy mill. People like this usually will not admit to the existence of genetic problems and have little or no regard for the resulting puppies health, temperament or well-being. Do not buy a puppy of ANY breed from a backyard breeder.

I have to totally disagree with this statement of a BYB like some assume that is what I am or call my Breeding program. I don't put any two dogs togather for the sake of MONEY. If you want to put the pencil to paper I Make nothing off my fluffs.Is NOt even my intentions of being a breeder is the MONEY. I am not in it for money if I was I would be broke. I do it cause I am in love with the Maltese breed. I want to be able to share the love they gave me to others at a affordable price. I just don't put two dogs togather and breed. I think people put labels on Breeders before they even know a thing about them so sad to think just it is all about Money not to share my love with others like my malts has shared with me. Just because I don't sell mine for a large amount does not make me a non rept. breeder or a careful selectiing my breeding program. I have paid lots of money for some of my dogs and got lesser then some I have paid allot less for. I feel get to know the Breeder go to her home see how they are cared for make many visits if it is possible get lots of refrence of others that has her babies if they are happy and if there is any health problems they have had. This is my two cents worth as a BYB Breeder like some call me. I call my self Charlotte the ole lady that has lots of love for maltese and one more around my house just makes it much more happier. 
They are my life and my Sunshine everyday and night of my life. LIfe is good around my house with all my happy malt family. MOre the marrier might be more poop to clean up more mouths to feed more vet bills to pay but they are worth every dime I have cause they have made me happy . I owe my malts the very best .
Charlotte the Ole lady that has gone crazy over her maltese


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## Tyler's Sis

> i just wanted to add, that this thread was posted on Apr 10 2005, 04:41 PM by puppy_luv4life. she decided against a maltese, instead she got an adorable shih tzu she named rylee.
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## Cyndilou

We got our first fluff for $200. Special circumstances. Ace was $1200. I also do sorta believe you get what you pay for.


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## littlefluffbabies

This thread is from 2005. Just thought that I'd mention that.  I'm sure that the cost of a new puppy has also changed in the last 8 years

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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