# Back from puppy class!!



## WeeGrace (Oct 22, 2012)

Ok so we went along daisy was the oldest at 5 months and the rest were 12 weeks old!! There were three of us and it was more meet and great and interact for first day. There was a women with a 12 week old boxer pup and another with an 8 wk Yorkie/bechon frische pup. The boxer was very hyper and extremely dominant. She kept biting the other pups tail and when the person taking it said to put daisy down I knew she was afraid. Daisy usually goes mad around other dogs. The boxer then kept pinning daisy standing above her and Daisy's head was looking through the boxers front legs the boxer kept trying to play bite on Daisy's ear but daisy was extremely nervous then she turned!! And started to growl and bite back I've never seen her be like this her tail was stuck between her leg the whole time!! She wouldn't leave my side!!

Apparently next week we are doing training things we started sit but daisy already does this and them after few weeks a dog behaviourist comes in and works with the dogs.

I'm kind of scared to go back there with daisy she wasn't happy at all and the other woman took no control over her dog her dog roamed the room and daisy and the other little cutie pie lucky sat up in my knee and lucky's owners knee.

I hope daisy wasn't hurt and to top it all off daisy was sick in the car both on the way in and way out


----------



## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

Oh I'm sorry that it wasn't a good experience. I hate when there are bigger dogs even though they are younger) and there is no control.Maybe next week it will be more structured and the dogs can't just run around! I would tell the trainer that I don't feel comfortable with the situation!


----------



## Lynzodolly (Sep 15, 2012)

Well grace we went to pets at home training here ,, they only let one dog off lead at a time to socialise without none of this bullying behaviour .. Look about that's terrible !!... If you have a pets at home near you go and see , or check other ones out .. Ooh I'm angry for you , even paws up on other dogs is banned there and the dog is immediately put back on a lead for another ne to be let off ..  xx poor daisy


----------



## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

Oh no! That doesn't sound good. I see such posts and it makes me very confused. Puppy class is supposed to be about good socialization, not a free for all where small dogs get terrorized. 

I sat in on a couple of classes at various places before we chose one for Gustave and none of them involved these kind of interactions between puppies. All had puppies separated and when there was interaction it was always highly supervised. 

Sorry I'm not being very helpful. I guess I'm trying to say don't lose hope if you find out this is not the class for you. There are better ones out there. Personally, I would ask for my money back and not return. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## WeeGrace (Oct 22, 2012)

I got it through the vets because daisy is registered there so didn't have to pay but was horrible I've never seen daisy aggressive not even in play she will bark but move growl never bite aggressively really was awful and the fact the other woman didn't lift her dog once annoys me. daisy won't come near me now that we are home. It's like she is huffing with me.

I trusted it because it was through the vets and I love the vets that I have


----------



## Zoe's Mom88 (Apr 25, 2011)

Sorry your first day didn't turn out well. That situation didn't sound very controlled and I wouldn't have been pleased either. I think I would have a talk with the person who runs the class and tell them your not comfortable.


----------



## spookiesmom (Mar 28, 2010)

That happened to us too. It was SUPPOSED to be a class for small dogs. The labs and goldens were young, NOT small. At 5# she didn't have a chance.

Get your ££££ back, tell them why, and keep looking.


----------



## WeeGrace (Oct 22, 2012)

It was just so upsetting this woman said she went a few weeks ago and another dog did the same to her boxer pup I can't believe she sat there and let her dog do that after she knew what it was like. Daisy and I usually have "cuddle time" on the couch now and she won't come near me at all!! I'm so worried she didn't try to follow my parents out the door and she usually does. She's just cried since she has come home. I said to the trainer is this allowed and she said oh yes it is what they do when they a in a "pack" daisy was the oldest and the smallest there. I'm just worried about Daisy's behaviour now.


----------



## Just A Girl (Oct 13, 2012)

I'm so sorry that y'all had such a bad experience. I'd be very upset too!

I agree with what the others have said ~ don't go back. 
I know that some trainers around here have classes specifically for small breed dogs. I'm willing to bet that there are some where you live as well.


----------



## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

I believe Daisy has "spoken" and that she doesn't want to go back. I would honor that. No way I'd be putting her back in a class that the trainer obviously lacks control over. So sorry you all had to experience this. Please give Daisy hugs from us.


----------



## WeeGrace (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm really considering one on one time after tonight daisy was so excited when she say all the other little pups until this pup came in. She greeted everyone and was so gentle with the little ones. She spent all evening shaking after that she was really thirsty and the other dog even drank all her water. As others suggested I brought her bowl and water I'm so glad I did because she was sick. I just thought we'd be learning about commands etc but we didn't!!


----------



## WeeGrace (Oct 22, 2012)

Bridget thanks for the hugs ill pass them on once she allows me near her!! Treats aren't even working. I hope it doesn't make her a frightened dog now she is such a bubbly little thing I wouldn't want her to loose it


----------



## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

Don't coddle her right now. This is one I forget when I'm being protective. It encourages their behavior. I would just act like all is OK and talk in happy voices. Let her be till she comes around. She will eventually. 

I'd also like to say I get mad at this 'pack' behavior theories. When do packs of maltese and boxers co-exist in nature!! That's not natural. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## WeeGrace (Oct 22, 2012)

Eiksaa thanks for the no cuddle advise we are slowly coming around she will sit with her plastic bottle and chew it beside me phew!!! It's 12.30pm here but didn't want to put her to bed in the mood she was in. I've taken her to bed tonight and she is now curled at my head breathing into my ear!!! 

It made me angry too!! I'm sorry I'm sure the boxer dog is a nice breed but they wouldn't be for me and I was holding the boxer dogs collar at times and it was stronger than me!! Poor daisy just looked like a shaking ball of fluff. She isn't used to rough play like that she does play with big dogs such as labs and retrievers and springer spaniels they are bit older but are young at heart and they are so gentle with daisy in fact one is so protective of her to the point if a stranger comes near daisy the retriever will growl. When I'm at that house daisy and the retriever curl up together with daisy snuggled in the retrievers legs with its tail on top of her. Non of them ever do this dominant play or stand pinning her down everyone was telling me to put daisy down that its ok but it clearly wasn't!!!! I spend every hour of my day almost with daisy I know her moods and I've never seen her A) agressive and growling and B) unhappy shaking curled tightly and tail under her bum.

Thanks for the support and advice from everyone don't know what I'd do without My SM buddies. Bridget daisy got those hugs and she eventually sends kiss back


----------



## summer (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm so sorry your puppy had to go through that. She really should have never have been in that situation. Maltese are fragile and get hurt easily. She was smart to be afraid. That dog could have really hurt her. She could have broke something or slipped a disc or worse. Please consider her size and not allow her to be in that kind of situation again. A little dog does not have the physical capaibility to protect themselfs from what you describe. Also, some dogs shake not only when they are afraid but also when they are in pain. If it were me I would give her tons of special attention and not let dogs near her that can cause her harm. 

Cuddles for Daisy


----------



## WeeGrace (Oct 22, 2012)

I know summer I checked her Over when I got home and she wasn't crying when I touched any part of her. Just made me angry that this woman told me that her boxer pup had the same thing done to her a few weeks back by another dog and she left and came back few weeks later when that dog was gone!! Yet she stood back and let that happen without correcting her dog. She sat on her seat and said Lucy obviously Lucy won't come to that she won't even sit. She as just interested in showing how Lucy could do paw and high five!!! 

I was so surprised that they weren't on leads etc. it's made me nervous about going back to even a different puppy class!! Daisy even wet herself while sitting on my knee she's never done that.


----------



## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Grace i'm so sorry that that happened to you. There was someone else on here who took their puppy to puppy class and had similar experience but with more dogs, i'm sorry i can't remember who at the moment. After reading about that experience i asked the trainer at the obedience class what she does at puppy class. I told her what happened to the one poster's puppy and if there is a puppy play time the bigger puppy's are in one area and the smaller puppy's in another area, separated during free play. I know in the obedience we just finished there was a very rambunctious husky mix and that dog was gated off from the rest of the class but still part of the class, just gated so there wouldn't be a fight. It truly saddens me with some of these so called trainers, the way they're training is endangering the puppy and setting the puppy up to be fearful it's entire life.


----------



## summer (Dec 3, 2010)

I would definately use that experience as a learning experience for having a small dog. If your dog ever has a dog near her that can hurt her, as a dog owner to a small breed that cannot protect herself I would go scoop her up asap. It only takes a second for a tragedy to happen.


----------



## WeeGrace (Oct 22, 2012)

Debbie I need to find one like that I'm venting at this boxer pup she was lovely very playful but obviously strong and wasn't her fault. She should of been handled better I know if it was daisy being the rough one I would have her on a lead . After the pinning incident I picked daisy up when I could get near her I felt like leaving straight away. I think the other pup was hurt as it cried the whole time. I was sitting beside the other pup and daisy leaned over stressed and all as she was and give the little one a lick. I honestly think that's it I've taught daisy so much myself that I think I'll just keep going myself or get a trainer on one to one. My parents even commented on how distressed she was. Hehe daisy is like their grandchild and they are even more protective than I am of her. She usually loves sitting up on dads lap in the evenings honestly think its cause she can see more but wouldn't go near any of us until an hour ago hid under the table and barked when we went near


----------



## manolomom (Apr 19, 2012)

summergirl73 said:


> i believe daisy has "spoken" and that she doesn't want to go back. I would honor that. No way i'd be putting her back in a class that the trainer obviously lacks control over. So sorry you all had to experience this. Please give daisy hugs from us.



i agree 100%


----------



## WeeGrace (Oct 22, 2012)

Just want to say big thankyou for advice letting me rant and support. It's now 7.30am and for once I'm awake before her!! No wake up kisses for me. I'm just letting her sleep and hoping she recovers this way. I won't be heading back there not at all!! I don't think my dad would allow it. He said he's never seen her look traumatised before. 

I agree with some of you that daisy has spoken and I am respecting that. I did get the name of a dog behaviourist/ trainer who does group and one to one sessions I think I'm going to take daisy to her instead. I don't think daisy has any behaviour issues at all but would love to get her to learn to stop pulling on trousers nibbling at my toes and to come that's all she needs she's good at everything else like stay walking on a lead sitting and lying.


----------



## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

WeeGrace said:


> Just want to say big thankyou for advice letting me rant and support. It's now 7.30am and for once I'm awake before her!! No wake up kisses for me. I'm just letting her sleep and hoping she recovers this way. I won't be heading back there not at all!! I don't think my dad would allow it. He said he's never seen her look traumatised before.
> 
> I agree with some of you that daisy has spoken and I am respecting that. I did get the name of a dog behaviourist/ trainer who does group and one to one sessions I think I'm going to take daisy to her instead. I don't think daisy has any behaviour issues at all but would love to get her to learn to stop pulling on trousers nibbling at my toes and to come that's all she needs she's good at everything else like stay walking on a lead sitting and lying.



If i were you i would talk to the trainer/behaviorist and find out how she conducts the class and maybe go to a class or 2 without Daisy just to observe. I hope that your able to find a wonderful class for Daisy.


----------



## jodublin (Sep 27, 2006)

poor Daisy , small dogs and big dogs just don't mix well ,try not to fell bad .Just
ask for your money back , some vets run puppy classes or can help you find one 
for smaller breeds .


----------



## WeeGrace (Oct 22, 2012)

Jo she is fine today this was through the vets and as I was registered there didn't have to pay but can't believe it was allowed to happen!! I'm not bringing her back. We have done 5 minute training sessions on and off today and daisy really getting the hang of stay and come. We just have to teach her no!!! I think she understands but refuses to listen lol!!


----------



## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

I hope you will consider classes somewhere else. I take Gustave to classes not for training as much as I do for socialization. I think it's good for him to get out and have different experiences. It also teaches him to focus on me with distractions around us and he loves 5 people telling him what a good boy he is for doing a trick. 

Only thing is, if socialization is the main focus, it needs to be the good kind.


----------



## WeeGrace (Oct 22, 2012)

I know it is a good idea just need to find right class for her!!


----------



## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

I am a big advocate for training and training young. But I am also horrified by so many posts like yours where puppy class trainers let things get out of hand. 

I have spend thousands of dollars trying to help my reactive dog (who may have become reactive due to a near attack at his puppy k class - an OES jumping a gate to come after him). That was not the fault of the trainers there, but frankly too many puppy class trainers let it be a free for all, assuming over-exuberant puppies won't hurt each other even when there is a difference in size and they figure it is all socialization. When our pups are terrorized that is not the type of socialization that is needed. They need POSITIVE experiences. Negative experiences in puppy-hood actually can have the opposite effect and ruin a dog's confidence and sometimes even traumatize them to the point of leaving them scarred for life. 

Please do not take your dog back and please tell them WHY you are not coming back, that you feel she was traumatized by this experience and puppy class should help socialize but not traumatize.


----------



## dcm (Aug 31, 2012)

jodublin said:


> poor Daisy , small dogs and big dogs just don't mix well ,.


I fully understand about this incident.....and agree, that the larger puppies and smaller ones should have been under better control if not separated at first due to their tender ages and lack of training. 

I'm really sorry Daisy went through this. Definitely does not sound like the trainer was too savvy & she was clearly traumatized.

However, I think all dogs should *eventually* learn how to behave around other dogs of all sizes. 

It just so happens, I have two adult Boxers who live side by side with my Maltese....One was 2 yrs. when I got her and the other I raised from a pup. They are now 9 & 7 yrs old. I had Maltese looong before the Boxers. But, none of my Malts are afraid of the Boxers (& my smallest is 4 1/4 lbs).....having said that, my Boxers are pretty respectful of the little Malts. When playing, the Boxers will go down on their tummies to get down the Malt's level. In fact, the Boxers are there for every moment when a new litter is being delivered....they insist on inspecting each arrival and checking on them daily for the first few weeks. My older Boxer actually has attempted to nurse the babies and she's never had pups herself. The Boxers can be standing at their food bowls eating....if a Malt walks in and wants to eat, they literally walk in under the Boxer and the Boxers will politely back away until the Malt is done.

I'm just saying all of this because small dogs and larger ones can and do certainly live together and do it well. 

Had to interject this as I've been on a very nice Boxer forum for about 6 yrs. now......and a lot of the Boxer owners strongly dislike small dogs....calling them yappy, snappy, and not well-behaved around larger dogs. I'm always trying to let them know that not all small dogs are like that.


----------



## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

dcm said:


> I fully understand about this incident.....and agree, that the larger puppies and smaller ones should have been under better control if not separated at first due to their tender ages and lack of training.
> 
> I'm really sorry Daisy went through this. Definitely does not sound like the trainer was too savvy & she was clearly traumatized.
> 
> ...


I absolutely agree that small dogs should be socialized to the extent possible with larger ones, so that that are not yappy and snappy. However, IMHO they do not EVER need to learn to play with larger ones. They can, in a safe controlled environment like your home, where you know the dogs there. But they should not have to do so in situations where the larger dogs are in any way unknown like in this type of class setting. It only takes one accident and our dogs are DEAD. I have seen it happen so many times. The truth is, that many larger dogs do view our small dogs as prey. And we have a responsibility to protect them. 

Too often larger dog owners do not understand the risks our dogs face. They will say things like oh my dog is just trying to play. Why is your dog growling? Well it might be bc when your dog was trying to play she landed one of her gargantuan paws on my back and nearly broke my spine. Not all dogs understand their strength and size and many small dogs do in fact know that as a small dog, their only defense is being loud and sending out signals to stay away.


----------



## WeeGrace (Oct 22, 2012)

Debra I'm sorry I might seem I'm anti boxer I'm not I was just terrified at the uncontrolled situation. I think it's great your dogs love your malts daisy is also surrounded by big dogs and they respect her they baby her nearly!! It was just the situation I was in. I agree with carina that with unknown dogs it neads to be controlled. Daisy is a lot better I said it to the trainer and she gave me name of someone else for small dogs.


----------



## dcm (Aug 31, 2012)

WeeGrace said:


> Debra I'm sorry I might seem I'm anti boxer I'm not I was just terrified at the uncontrolled situation. I think it's great your dogs love your malts daisy is also surrounded by big dogs and they respect her they baby her nearly!! It was just the situation I was in. I agree with carina that with unknown dogs it neads to be controlled. Daisy is a lot better I said it to the trainer and she gave me name of someone else for small dogs.


WeeGrace, I never thought you were anti-Boxer at all. Sorry, I did not mean for you to think that. I WILL say, I've been around many different breeds in my lifetime and the Boxer definitely has a unique (& seemingly rough) way of playing. Boxers are powerful, but most don't know it. Actually, most non-Boxer breeds will not play with them for that reason. They are a powerful breed but don't know it.
I just took the time to teach my Boxers how to behave around other animals. They even love cats. Generally, Boxers are absolutely wonderful family dogs...most seem to have an instinctive passion about children. Mine had never been around children until my grandkids came along, but have shown loyalty to all of them. Heck, my 3 yr. old can walk the older one and control her (under supervision, of course). 

But, then again, I'm an owner who believes the dogs should be under the control of their owner.


----------



## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

Ok am I the only one who thought, "Good girl Grace!" For turning and growling at the other dog? 

Puppies have no manners and sometimes, rambunctious puppies, need other puppies to step forward and lay down the law. They all want to scuttle back to mama at first, but they need to learn to socialize with other dogs.

However.....

If I paid for a class that was suppose to be all small breed (because that is what I was comfortable with) then that is what I would want....


----------



## dcm (Aug 31, 2012)

CloudClan said:


> But they should not have to do so in situations where the larger dogs are in any way unknown like in this type of class setting. It only takes one accident and our dogs are DEAD. I have seen it happen so many times. The truth is, that many larger dogs do view our small dogs as prey. And we have a responsibility to protect them.


I never said otherwise....just said it in a different fashion.... & I was just making the point that dogs of different sizes can get along with training. I did initially say these puppies, of such tender ages, should have never been allowed to roam about with no control.

Might want to re-read what I said..... I never disagreed with the gist of the discussion.


----------



## .13124 (Jun 1, 2012)

That sounds a lot like what happened to my Cici at her puppy class :\ It happened the week before class was over. I learned my lesson and I will never let that happen again, I'd rather interfere even if the trainer says not to. Just make sure she's doing fine now and plays appropriately with other dogs now, because Cici turned reactive and does not like dogs at all now, so now I have to dedicate all my time in her training so hopefully one day she will be able to interact without feeling threatened.
I don't know why other people would let their pups intimidate another pup even if they are just playing, when one has their tail between their legs it should be a sign to stop IMHO :\.


----------



## WeeGrace (Oct 22, 2012)

Debra fully agree that dogs who know each other and are in controlled situation get on great daisy and her cousin who is a retriever have a wonderful relationship she is like her cousins baby lol. The retriever is very protective of her

As regard to how she will react to other dogs ill did out this weekend as we are going to her cousins house. Hopefully she will jus be as interactive and happy as usual. 

Yep I was proud sort of when she stood up for herself but she was very uncomfortable with the situation!!! She is her usual bubbly self and currently fighting with her new dress lol.


----------

