# Pet Silk Web Site



## Puddles Mom (Jun 20, 2004)

Been surffing the web to purchase Pet Silk products. 
More web sites than I would have thought.

If you order Pet Silk products on line, please forward me the web site address.

Thanks, 
Puddles and Mom


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

All of the PetSilk products that I ordered off the internet I got at this website: MJM Company

If I remember correctly it only took 3-5 days to receive the products.


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## Mystify79 (Apr 6, 2004)




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## Puddles Mom (Jun 20, 2004)

Thanks Lexi's Mom and Mystify79 for your reply. Going to check the sites out now. 

Maybe I can luck up on a starter kit or something like that.

Puddles and Mom


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## Gigolo's Mom (Sep 3, 2004)

Just going through the posts and came across Pet Silk web site question?? (I thought I knew about all Maltese related products but always something new to learn). Forgive my ignorance, but what are Pet Silk products and why would I want to order them? This site is wonderful, so informative without being censored!! Love it!....
Thanks,
Gigolo's Mom


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

PetSilk products are grooming products (shampoo, conditioner, whiteners, etc.) I have been using them on Lexi since April and think they are great. Her hair is silky, soft. Everyone that pets her comments on how soft it is. They do not cost much more than what you would pay for shampoo at PetCo or PetSmart.


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## Gigolo's Mom (Sep 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Sep 13 2004, 02:37 PM
> *PetSilk products are grooming products (shampoo, conditioner, whiteners, etc.)  I have been using them on Lexi since April and think they are great.  Her hair is silky, soft.  Everyone that pets her comments on how soft it is.  They do not cost much more than what you would pay for shampoo at PetCo or PetSmart.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=9060*


[/QUOTE]


So I checked out the MJM company website for Pet Silk products and of course now more confused than ever! Probably would try the "Brite White Shampoo" and Conditioner but would consider trying either "Liquid Silk" or "Silk Sheen" and not sure which is better or how they are different in achieving shine & luster. 

Gigolo has beautiful hair (one of the first things I noticed about him at 6 weeks old). When I bathe him he looks fabulous...then 2 days later the hair on his ears appears to separate (I guess get more oily??) Any info on the above products or alternatives would be appreciated as I'm running low on the current product that I use which is the Drs Foster & Smith Brite White shampoo & conditioner ..which does smell great!!
Thanks,
Gigolo's Mom


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

I know it can be confusing. PetSilk has so many products!

I use the Liquid Silk on Lexi. It makes her hair extra soft and silky. I haven't tried the Silk Sheen so I can't tell you anything about it.

I do use the Bright White Shampoo. You should only use it like every 4 baths if you bath weekly. Otherwise it can dry out the hair. I usually use the Moisturizing Shampoo, then if I am using the Bright white I shampoo a second time with that, and then I condition using the Moisturizing Rinse. I try to leave the conditioner in for 3-5 minutes.



> When I bathe him he looks fabulous...then 2 days later the hair on his ears appears to separate (I guess get more oily??)[/B]


Not sure what can cause this. You could try using a leave in conditioner between baths when you brush him. Not sure if that would help though. I use PetSilk's Leave In Conditioner


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

You guys are sooo PetSilk Crazy that I'm going to try it myself. It costs the same as what I'm using anyway! haha

Does the Liquid silk make their hair greasy or oily?


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Gigolo's Mom+Sep 14 2004, 11:20 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So I checked out the MJM company website for Pet Silk products and of course now more confused than ever! Probably would try the "Brite White Shampoo" and Conditioner but would consider trying either "Liquid Silk" or "Silk Sheen" and not sure which is better or how they are different in achieving shine & luster. 

Gigolo has beautiful hair (one of the first things I noticed about him at 6 weeks old). When I bathe him he looks fabulous...then 2 days later the hair on his ears appears to separate (I guess get more oily??) Any info on the above products or alternatives would be appreciated as I'm running low on the current product that I use which is the Drs Foster & Smith Brite White shampoo & conditioner ..which does smell great!!
Thanks,
Gigolo's Mom
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=9139
[/B][/QUOTE]


Brinkley's hair does this too. It is so fluffy after bath, and by the end of the next day, it is more like what you describe. But I wouln't call it oily. Sometimes a good brushing helps, but not like a post-bath blow dry etc.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

The liquid silk doesn't make the hair oily. It just makes it really soft.

tlunn & Gigolo's Mom: Have you tried the PetSilk No Rinse Shampoo? I haven't tried it but it sounds like it might help you inbetween baths. Here is what they say about it on the website: 



> *No Rinse Shampoo*
> 
> This is the quintessential daily grooming aid ...
> 
> ...


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Sep 14 2004, 02:21 PM
> *The liquid silk doesn't make the hair oily.  It just makes it really soft.
> 
> tlunn & Gigolo's Mom: Have you tried the PetSilk No Rinse Shampoo?  I haven't tried it but it sounds like it might help you inbetween baths.  Here is what they say about it on the website:
> ...


*



No Rinse Shampoo

    This is the quintessential daily grooming aid ...

    Use this unique PetSilk product for touch-ups between baths, for keeping faces clean and for cleaning up accidents. This useful shampoo does not need to be rinsed out.

No Rinse Shampoo
$8.95

Click to expand...

*<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=9160
[/B][/QUOTE]

I may try that. I plan to do a petsilk purchase sometime, but hubby says I have 5 shampoos in there for the dog, and I don't need to get anymore. He is right...he he. I have found that my conditioner works great on him, so I stopped stressing about that. I bought the "sheer blonde" they have at walmart and other drug stores. The shampoo and conditioner are great. They also have some finishing products I like.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

haha! I just bought the brillantly brunette shampoo & conditoner for myself. It is made by the same company I think. So far I really like it. I am thinking of getting some of there styling products when I run out.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Sep 14 2004, 04:33 PM
> *haha!  I just bought the brillantly brunette shampoo & conditoner for myself.  It is made by the same company I think.  So far I really like it.  I am thinking of getting some of there styling products when I run out.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=9172*


[/QUOTE]

It is the same company. My sister uses that.
I love the shampoo and conditioner for my daughter and me.
She is four and her hair is long and THICK! She hates for me to brush it etc. The conditioner is so good to help with the tangles, and they have a high gloss detangler stuff too that is great for her. It is somewhat greasy like though, so you have to really watch how much you use. A little goes a LONG way. Anyway, good stuff in my book.







Anything to help with Emily and I getting off to a good start in the mornings. I got to where I DREADED doing her hair everyday. She was such a whiner about it. It was not like I MEANT to pull, but you gotta get the tangles out. This stuff was a life saver!


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

What is the difference between the leave in conditioner and the liquid silk?


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

Liquid Silk is not a conditioner. It just makes the hair softer and silkier. The Leave In Conditioner is as the name says a conditioner. It is a detangler. I use it any time I am combing Lexi's hair. I only use the liquid silk after her bath but I think you can use it in between to. You just have to be careful not to use too much. I think if you did the hair might look greasy looking.

Here is what it says on the site for Liquid Silk: 


> With a unique and unchallenged professional formula Liquid Silk adds instant luster, manageability and a smooth texture without added weight.  Restores life to dull, damaged or dry coats and skin. Eliminates static fly-away hair. Prevent mats and tangles when used regularly. Instantly improves moisture balance, elasticity, shine.[/B]


Here is what it says for Leave In Conditioner:


> This is the perfect grooming spray ... use whenever you brush.
> 
> It is unsurpassed as a detangler / moisturizer before and during blow drying.  This pleasantly scented PetSilk mist is formulated to repair and revitalize the hair without weighing it down.  Contains silk extracts and natural herbs to condition and protect damaged hair instantly. Prevents build up of static energy and leaves a beautiful, natural shine.[/B]


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

I got the Pet silk product yesterday! I got the shampoo, rinse and leave-in conditioner. It was ok to me. I really like the smell though. With the cost of shipping, it costs the same as any other petstore. I like my Bio-groom products just the same. I think with petsilk, because it's thicker, it will probably last longer. I think next time I make a purchase, I'm going to order the Liquid silk to see if it makes a difference.


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

Just wanted to change my mind on how I feel about Petsilk. I LOVE IT! The secret (don't know if it's a secret, but it was to me) is to leave it in for a few minutes and totally massage it in. Aim for 5 mins or longer for both shampoo and conditioner. They smelled so good for days even without using the leave in conditioner everyday. And they stayed so soft I want to use my babies as my pillow!


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Oct 16 2004, 09:59 AM
> *Just wanted to change my mind on how I feel about Petsilk.  I LOVE IT!  The secret (don't know if it's a secret, but it was to me) is to leave it in for a few minutes and totally massage it in.  Aim for 5 mins or longer for both shampoo and conditioner.  They smelled so good for days even without using the leave in conditioner everyday.  And they stayed so soft I want to use  my babies as my pillow!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=12126*


[/QUOTE]

i was curious, what do u guys do while u wait till 5 minutes has past after applying the shampoo and conditioner? 

do u keep massaging the shampoo? 

just wait and do nothing? 

i usually become so impatient while im waiting i just wash the shampoo/conditioner right away

i cant wait for 1 min and i just rinse them all out real fast...do u guys really wait for 5 min..? what do u do while u wait??


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)

-_-


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

The groomer's guide said to leave it in for 10 mins! I try, but I don't have a clock in the bathroom so I don't know how long I'm leaving it in. Massaging them helps the time go by. You can brush their teeth while you're waiting. You definitely want to concentrate and massage around the eyes if there's any tear staining. I try to do SOMETHING otherwise, they'll be thinking, "what's the hold up!?"


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## ilove_d&m (Apr 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Oct 16 2004, 12:15 PM
> *The groomer's guide said to leave it in for 10 mins!  I try, but I don't have a clock in the bathroom so I don't know how long I'm leaving it in.  Massaging them helps the time go by.  You can brush their teeth while you're waiting.  You definitely want to concentrate and massage around the eyes if there's any tear staining.  I try to do SOMETHING otherwise, they'll be thinking, "what's the hold up!?"
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=12132*


[/QUOTE]


I dont think I leave it for 10 minutes. As it is the girls dont like it when I bathe them. 
good idea I will try to brush their teeth while waiting.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

I leave the conditioner on Lexi for around 5 minutes. She is really good about just standing there. I sometimes give her treats while we are waiting or I talk to her and tell her was a good puppy she is.


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

I really can't leave the shampoo in for a whole 10 mins and then leave the conditioner in for another 10 mins. I try but I get agitated. 5 is good enough for me. 

I groomed cloud today and gave him a bath. I felt too bad leaving it in so long because it's getting colder. 

Anyway, I'm super super SUPER depressed.







I trimmed Cloud's face and I couldnt get it even so I kept cutting and cutting and now he seriously looks ugly! YOU CAN HAVE AN UGLY MALTESE *CRYING*. He doesn't even look like a maltese. He looks like a Jack Russell or something...an ugly Jack russell *crying again*. I'm so sad. I want to take him to the groomers just so they can trim the face, but he's so ugly I feel so ashamed. 

Let me get back on the topic here. The only good thing that came out of all this is that he smells good and he's really really soft.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Oct 18 2004, 03:57 PM
> *I really can't leave the shampoo in for a whole 10 mins and then leave the conditioner in for another 10 mins.  I try but I get agitated.  5 is good enough for me.
> 
> I groomed cloud today and gave him a bath.  I felt too bad leaving it in so long because it's getting colder.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Give it a few days and it will start to grow in again. Usually it is not as bad as you think. If it is learn from the mistake. It was a learning experience. The hair will grow back and now you know that Cloud doesn't look good with really short facial hair.









The face is really hard to get even. Lexi always ends up looking a little choppy. The thinning shears help a lot too. It makes it so it isn't as choppy plus it can help take off hair without it being really noticable.


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Oct 18 2004, 04:06 PM
> *Give it a few days and it will start to grow in again.  Usually it is not as bad as you think.  If it is learn from the mistake.  It was a learning experience.  The hair will grow back and now you know that Cloud doesn't look good with really short facial hair.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


I know it's a learning experience, but this is the worst I have ever done! I just don't know how I can fix it. He's had really short facial hair (you can see in his avatar picture). I want to cut it shorter, but the shorter I went, the uglier it got. No matter how much i cut, his face still looked all lopsided. I'll try to take a picture later.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

You could maybe give it a week so that the hair can grow back in a little and then try to even it out.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Oct 18 2004, 03:57 PM
> *I really can't leave the shampoo in for a whole 10 mins and then leave the conditioner in for another 10 mins.  I try but I get agitated.  5 is good enough for me.
> 
> I groomed cloud today and gave him a bath.  I felt too bad leaving it in so long because it's getting colder.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

That happened the first and only time I took Brinkley to the groomers...just a few days after I brought him home...and I WATCHED her butcher his face...but...good news...it will grow on you...the look I mean...and you will forget about it after a while...before you know it, you will look at him one day and say..."hey, his face grew out...!" AT least that is what happened with me...


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn_@Oct 18 2004, 08:54 PM
> *That happened the first and only time I took Brinkley to the groomers...just a few days after I brought him home...and I WATCHED her butcher his face...but...good news...it will grow on you...the look I mean...and you will forget about it after a while...before you know it, you will look at him one day and say..."hey, his face grew out...!" AT least that is what happened with me...
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

You're right...except it grew on me faster than I thought. They have such innocent beautiful eyes. He doesnt look bad...it's just that he looked better with longer hair around his nose. But he doesnt look like a maltese. He reminds me of a Jack Russell.


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

ok i tried to wait at least 5 min for the conditioner but yeah

i only waited for 30 sec and washed it out.......i have no patience at all...









i cant brush her teeth while waiting either coz i only can brush jong-ee's teeth when shes lying down on her side ..


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I buy all my grooming products from Pet Edge http://www.petedge.com/

They have the most reasonable prices I have found by far and a great selection. They do charge a $5 fee if your order is less than $50, so I just keep a list going until I reach $50 (Not hard to do if you're just starting out!).

The Liquid Silk is lovely to soften the coat and give it a little sheen. A little bit goes a long way, though, or it feels oily. Also, I think it would depend on the type of coat your Malt has. Lady has a rougher, more cottony coat so it works great on her. A dog with a very fine, silken coat would probably not need it and it might weigh the coat down.

I usually wash Lady in Pantene and use Mane & Tail for her conditioner. Pantene really whitens them and makes them smell great.

My favorite waterless shampoo is made by Proline. It's got whitener (blueing, I guess) in it, too. It really does a good job in between face washings. I'm sure Pet Edge has it.

I just checked and PetEdge doesn't seem to carry it anymore. Anyway, here it is at Care a Lot Pets, another one of my favorite places! It's the purple "Self Rinse Plus", second row, far left.

http://www.carealotpets.com/listItems.asp?...eader.gif&From=


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

It is cheap at pet edge. Thanks!


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2004)

Hi Lady's mom....we meet again! Glad lady is doing well...assume that so tell us more about your sweet angel! M\I have missed lady updates!


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## Silverstardust (Aug 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Oct 22 2004, 03:27 PM
> *I buy all my grooming products from Pet Edge  http://www.petedge.com/
> 
> They have the most reasonable prices I have found by far and a great selection. They do charge a $5 fee if your order is less than $50, so I just keep a list going until I reach $50 (Not hard to do if you're just starting out!).
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Allo Marj








When you say Pantene Shampoo are you talking about Pantene Pro/V for people? Thanks 
Silver


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Yes, I use the Pnatene for people. It was recommended by a gal on anothe rboard who shows and does professional grooming herself and I love it. It does a great job of whitening and boy, does Lady smell great afterwards! I use the moisturing formula (the green on the bottle).

Hello, Vita! I am so glad to "see" you again, too and find out what tricks Boris and Freddy (especially Freddy!) have been up to!


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

I bought a new conditioner to try for my daughter and the Brinkster....by Aussie..."Knot forgotten"-for hair prone to tangles.
He is so soft and silky...and smells yummy!!!!


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

I just have to comment! Your allowed to post web site addresses??? I mentioned on another post that I recently got kicked off of forum for naming a store.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

You can name stores & products. Post websites, pictures, etc.

Basically anything you couldn't do on MO you can do here. There is no censoreship.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Oct 22 2004, 04:11 PM
> *It is cheap at pet edge.  Thanks!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=12970*


[/QUOTE]

I buy A LOT of things on that site! Grooming stuff, clothes, toys! It's GREAT!


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Oct 29 2004, 10:58 AM
> *You can name stores & products. Post websites, pictures, etc.
> 
> Basically anything you couldn't do on MO you can do here. There is no censoreship.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

What does MO mean?


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

Sorry, it stands for Maltese Only. It is another Maltese website. The guy that runs it thinks it is a dictatorship. You are not allowed to post store names, product names, website, pictures, sometimes your pets names, etc. He will sometimes change your post if he does not agree or he just won't post them. He reviews all of the the post before they are actually posted. He thinks he is god or something.


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## Quincymom (Oct 17, 2004)

I love Pet Edge, too. Spend lots of money there, just ask my husband, lol. I have been using Petsilk for about 4 weeks now (4 shampoos) and am really starting to notice the difference in Quincy's hair. Very silky and less matting. I started out using Vellus (love their Static Stabilizing Spray) and then bought Purepaws, but I don't like them at all. And they are much more expensive that Petsilk. Good product, but Petsilk works better for Quincy. I just ordered a cologne selection from Petsilk---Baby boy, Baby girl, Prince and Princess, (came as a special priced set) I'll let y'all know how I like it when it arrives.
Quincymom


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Quincymom_@Oct 29 2004, 11:37 AM
> *I love Pet Edge, too. Spend lots of money there, just ask my husband, lol. I have been using Petsilk for about 4 weeks now (4 shampoos) and am really starting to notice the difference in Quincy's hair. Very silky and less matting. I started out using Vellus (love their Static Stabilizing Spray) and then bought Purepaws, but I don't like them at all. And they are much more expensive that Petsilk.  Good product, but Petsilk works better for Quincy. I just ordered a cologne selection from Petsilk---Baby boy, Baby girl, Prince and Princess, (came as a special priced set) I'll let y'all know how I like it when it arrives.
> Quincymom
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=13917*


[/QUOTE]

I had heard about Vellus and was wondering if it was really worth the price. I've been using PetSilk for 6 months now (since I got Lexi) and I love it. Her hair is so soft and silky. Everyone that pets her comments on it. I haven't tried the colognes. I was thinking of getting one the next time I place and order. Which probably won't be for a few more months. I need to use up the stuff I have first.


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## Quincymom (Oct 17, 2004)

Yes Vellus is expensive and a good product, but nothing special for the price. Now that I have used Petsilk I won't buy Vellus again, Petsilk is far superior. I do like their Static Stabilizing Spray for everyday brushing though, (Vellus product), I haven't decided if I will buy more when I run out.
Quincymom


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

im gonna buy petsilk stuff today online,but how come petedge (yes they are the cheapest!! ) only sells 13 oz?
i wanted to buy a gallon !


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

Mee-wouldn't you want to try a small bottle first to see if you like it before you buy a gallon? Or does it really save alot more money if it's in a gallon?


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Nov 20 2004, 12:09 AM
> *Mee-wouldn't you want to try a small bottle first to see if you like it before you buy a gallon?  Or does it really save alot more money if it's in a gallon?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=17371*


[/QUOTE]

i just like buying a whole bunch of stuff so i dont haev to buy them later and keep paying for the shipping fee for things i buy online..im just lazy

im just assuming that i'll like the petsilk stuff since a lot of ppl recommends it..so maybe a gallon will be ok..

but then my subtotal is like $180 !!! so i havent checked out and submitted the payment yet..im still deciding if i should buy it now or next month during my break..sigh..


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by mee_@Nov 20 2004, 12:01 AM
> *my subtotal is like $180 !!! <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=17378*


[/QUOTE]

WOW!


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## Quincymom (Oct 17, 2004)

I would definitely buy a smaller size to know which formula works best for your dog. I love the moisturizing shampoo and deep silk conditioner, when I run out it is the gallon size for me too, it is good stuff!
Quincymom


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko+Nov 20 2004, 01:22 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW!








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=17380
[/B][/QUOTE]

ditto!!!!








 Hubby would KILL me!


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)

:excl:


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2004)

I have used et Silk products from day one...the moisturizing line. I started with the smaller bottles but then ordered the gallon..taking long time to go through them. Every now and again I do use Pantene..which works very well..Every now and again I use the pet silk on MY hair. I am thinking about ordering the oatmeal shampoo to give that a try...and would start with smaller bottle first. The bottom line is even the "best" shampoo may not work for your dog so it makes sense to try different things till u find what is perfect for you Malt and their hair.


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole_@Nov 20 2004, 11:07 AM
> *Oops...I forgot to finish my thought.  LOL
> 
> So my point was, if the Petsilk and Farouk are made by the same company and the ph is both the same, it might actually be cheaper to buy the Farouk line and use it on your baby.  I know that Farouk/Sun Glitz makes a shampoo and conditioner for blondes that would probably do the same on your Malt.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=17405*


[/QUOTE]

my grandma told me to use dog shampoo when i was back home, before i came to the states..

she says dogshampoo is great on human hair and that it works really really great and ur hair becomes really smooth..

i was like...errrrr...grandma...is dogshampoo...but she said its great i should try it !!

hmmm..maybe she was right after all...









i havent bought the petsilk $180 order yet..haha

im still deciding..haha
thanks for all your advices!! i'll keep u updated !!!


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## lani (Sep 14, 2004)

Mee, I too think you should try small size first. I'm sure you'll end up loving it, but you just never know.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

ive used petsilk on park ever since i found this forum and its great. the liquid silk does smell like biosilk..i was thinking it was the same stuff too. so do the shampoos smell the same also. my mom got some for her yorkie and she stays looking cleaner longer than she used to, and b/c it is so concentrated one bottle lasts a long time. i'm still on my first bottle of shampoo and conditioner


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole+Nov 21 2004, 11:25 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, the shampoos and conditioners smelled oddly familiar. They smelled like the Sun Glitzing line. I don't know how familiar you are with that line (even as a hairdresser Farouk/Sun Glitz is hard to find), but I would think the whitening would be comparable to the blue shampoo for blondes. 

I still haven't tried the Petsilk--it was a long weekend, so I'll let everyone know what I think when I have tried it!
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=17715
[/B][/QUOTE]

They had some biosilk at TARGET of all places this weekend. I remembered this thread and smelled it...and it did smell like Brinkley! It smells like the silk stuff I got from petsilk...(too early to remember the name)...but not like the clean scent stuff.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by mee_@Nov 19 2004, 07:35 PM
> *im gonna buy petsilk stuff today online,but how come petedge (yes they are the cheapest!! ) only sells 13 oz?
> i wanted to buy a gallon !
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

The smaller size last a LONG time. I've had mine since April and am only about half way through it. I give Lexi a bath almost every week.


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

oh wow, ok ! thanks everybody !

i'll get the small bottle then !! haha thank you!


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

I have used Petsilk for a few years now. On my hair and on Alex's hair. I can tell you one thing, it does a lot better for my hair then all the people shampoos. I am using the Conditioning Silk Shampoo and the Conditioning Silk Rinse. But I live in a humid climat. Those in a dry climat might do better with the Moisturizing Shampoo. That's for you to find out what works better. I like also the Liquid Silk for Alex. I am sure you can use that too for yourself as a Body Lotion. To answer your question about Biosilk, yes it is the same company that makes PetSilk : Farouk Systems. PetSilk is just a small branch in the Farouk Systems, tho they have experienced a rapid growth lately. It is a lot cheaper to buy by the gallon. Now I am wondering how much you intend to order to arrive at 180 $ ? You can forget about the stain remover, it does not work (like all the other products on the market).


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MalteseJane_@Nov 22 2004, 05:00 PM
> *Now I am wondering how much you intend to order to arrive at 180 $ ? <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=17942*


[/QUOTE]

Bright White Silk Shampoo 
- Size 2.5 Gallons (9475 ml) 
$79.95

Moisturizing Rinse 
- Size 2.5 Gallons (9475 ml)
$79.95

Leave-In Conditioner 
- Size 1 Gallon (3790 ml) 
$39.95

Clean Scent 
- Size 13 oz. (386 ml) 
$8.25

Moisturizing Shampoo $58.46

ok, now i have total of $266.56

the 2.5 gallon are on sale..errr but i should resist and just buy the small bottles..


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Wow, I will try to make you save some money. 
Buy only the 13 oz Bright White Silk Shampoo
but take also the 13 oz Bright White Silk Rinse.
[you are not going to use this one each time you bathe and frankly I cannot see that much difference in the whiteness when using this shampoo compared to the other]

Buy 1 gallon Moisturizing Shampoo and 1 gallon Moisturizing Rinse
Is the price of $ 58.46 for 1 gallon ?

Why the Clean Scent ? Is this the shampoo or the Cologne ?

Leave-in-Conditioner : If you bathe your dog every week with PetSilk you won't need much of that. I have a 13 oz bottle for ages and it is still half full. 

I would recommend the Liquid Silk - start with the 2 oz bottle - it will take you far (you put a drop or two in your palm, rubb it between your hands and then pass your hands over the hair of the dog until nothing is left on your hands).

Is shipping included in those prices ?

I guess that's it  - hope this helps to make your choice


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## lani (Sep 14, 2004)

mee, you don't need to get Gallons. Small size will last for a long time. Save your money for her x'mas gift!!!


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

2.5 gallons of that much shampoo and conditioner should last her ENTIRE life!!!! It is concentrated you know?! (Although I use it straight out of the bottle







) If you have that much room to put all that...and the money to invest in the shampoo now that will last you many years to come...go ahead...







But that is alot of stuff!!!!!









By the way, the clean scent smells delicious!!!! I have seriously considered using the doggy cologne myself! Like a bath and body works spray/splash!


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

YESH !! but the sale is very very tempting !!!

i'll just go with the 13onz..

but hey, what r u guys gonna buy your babies for christmas??

i havent thought of anything..iim more concerned about jongees 1st b-day actually..

its on the 18th dec !!!!!

i'll probably have a small b-day party with jongee, just the 2 of us.. coz my last day of school is the 18th too !!

GREAT TIMING !!!


what r u guys gonna buy your babies for xmas tho? has anybody planned anything?


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

I'm thinking of getting Lexi a new bed for x-mas and birthday. Just a pillow type one with a removable washable cover. The bed she has is gettting disgusting and it isn't washable. I found one I like but it is too big to fit in her crate but my parents are maybe getting me a excerise pen so I can put it in there. But I would still need to get her one for her crate. Maybe it comes in a smaller size.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

No she does not need gallons, especially not 2.5 gallons. The shampoo can be diluted as much as 10 to 1.
Forget about the sale. Don't believe in : The more you buy the more you save. All it does is make you spend more money.


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## babycoconut (Oct 27, 2004)

Great! I atually have some BioSilk at home! BioSilk also makes this...hmmm...like, clear greasy stuff to put in your hair and it makes it reaaaally soft and shiney. I use it in my hair all of the time, having to bleach platinum every month, and it makes my hair so so soft. I'm wondering if it's the same thing as the PetSilk stuff. It sounds just like it.
Hmmm... Wonder if i could use my BioSilk on Coco...?


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by babycoconut_@Nov 23 2004, 11:09 AM
> *Great! I atually have some BioSilk at home! BioSilk also makes this...hmmm...like, clear greasy stuff to put in your hair and it makes it reaaaally soft and shiney. I use it in my hair all of the time, having to bleach platinum every month, and it makes my hair so so soft. I'm wondering if it's the same thing as the PetSilk stuff. It sounds just like it.
> Hmmm... Wonder if i could use my BioSilk on Coco...?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=18113*


[/QUOTE]


I use human stuff on Brinkley all the time....we have posted about this a few times. I think it is fine...if you start to notice any skin problems, I would stop it...but I think it was Nichole that said the ph was the same in dog and human hair...


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole+Nov 23 2004, 01:42 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was me.









babycoconut--I use my Biosilk on myself and Toby. I think it leaves him smelling great! I use three drops on Toby. I put two in my hand and rub them together and then rub them all over him. The last drop is saved for his face. I like to rub it into his tear stains--I like to think it is creating a barrier so the staining will no be able to penetrate.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=18156
[/B][/QUOTE]

Hmmm. will have to try that..."I like to think"-does that mean it works or doesn't work for you?


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)

:lol:


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2004)

Janine really knows what she is talking about as far as spending the least to get the most with Pet Silk. About a year and a half ago I bought the gallons of Moisturizing shampoo and consitioner...still going strong with 2 malts being bathed once a week and in the last 5 months a Portie being bathed every 3 weeks (and as he has grown we use more product). Throw out some of the stuff u never use under the sink and store the gallons there.


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## babycoconut (Oct 27, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Nov 23 2004, 12:24 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I use human stuff on Brinkley all the time....we have posted about this a few times. I think it is fine...if you start to notice any skin problems, I would stop it...but I think it was Nichole that said the ph was the same in dog and human hair...








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=18138
[/B][/QUOTE]


Oh, thanks for the tip! You know, i thought you said you used BioSilk on him. I guess i didn't read through clearly enough. Heh. I was at work and trying to read and post as fast as i could so the boss (my hubby) wouldn't get mad that i was messing around! haha.
Next time i bath Coconut i'm definitely gonna use my stuff on her. She feels soft uo to the day after a bath, then she seems to dry out a little then. That's what i get for buying cheap coconut scented shampoo from PetCo.


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## Mystify79 (Apr 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MalteseJane_@Nov 22 2004, 05:00 PM
> *I have used Petsilk for a few years now. On my hair and on Alex's hair. I can tell you one thing, it does a lot better for my hair then all the people shampoos. I am using the Conditioning Silk Shampoo and the Conditioning Silk Rinse. But I live in a humid climat. Those in a dry climat might do better with the Moisturizing Shampoo. That's for you to find out what works better. I like also the Liquid Silk for Alex. I am sure you can use that too for yourself as a Body Lotion. To answer your question about Biosilk, yes it is the same company that makes PetSilk : Farouk Systems. PetSilk is just a small branch in the Farouk Systems, tho they have experienced a rapid growth lately. It is a lot cheaper to buy by the gallon. Now I am wondering how much you intend to order to arrive at 180 $ ? You can forget about the stain remover, it does not work (like all the other products on the market).
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=17942*


[/QUOTE]

After reading your post I decided to try the Conditioning Silk rinse on my own hair and wow, oh wow, I've never had silkier or softer hair!


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

I always wanted to ask but I was a little embarrass to. Are you suppoe to dilute the shampoo and conditioner? Is it concentrated? If this is the case, I'm so upset I didn't ask sooner because I'm about to run out. I don't think I'm going to buy the whitener there. I'm going to try what Tlunn suggested.


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## lani (Sep 14, 2004)

Mystify79, How long did you leave it on your hair?


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2004)

This thread just makes me want to wash some Maltese! The boys had their last dunk last Tues eve and Wed they went to the groomer for a little clip here and there..no where really..they are in long coat! Ha. I was planning on this eve being bath night but got involved with just hanging out. Wed I need to make one more trip to the grocery for afew things I forgot to buy for Thursday...and then some cooking after work... So..it is possible it might be Fri before they hit the water!

I have some ole pals who have joined this forum recently and they will tell you how obsessive I am with the guys and keeping them clean. 10 days between baths, with company coming is a long time for me but that Turkey needs some attention and all the fixings.
Have a great holiday, all!


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## Mystify79 (Apr 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lani_@Nov 23 2004, 10:59 PM
> *Mystify79, How long did you leave it on your hair?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=18306*


[/QUOTE]

I left it on for about 2 minutes and I also diluted it til it was a little runnier. Worked great and my hair smelled really nice! I do feel a little weird using a dog conditioner though!


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## lani (Sep 14, 2004)

Okay, I need to try it tonight!







Thanks!


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Vita I can't believe Freddy and Boris have not had a bath for 10 days!! :new_Eyecrazy: 
Something's wrong with you









Shampoo and Rinse can be diluted 10 to 1


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## ilove_d&m (Apr 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MalteseJane_@Nov 24 2004, 10:35 AM
> *Shampoo and Rinse can be diluted 10 to 1
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=18388*


[/QUOTE]


Sorry for my ignorance but what is that 10 to 1 mean. is that a measurement?


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MalteseJane_@Nov 24 2004, 09:35 AM
> *Shampoo and Rinse can be diluted 10 to 1
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=18388*


[/QUOTE]

I saw that on the bottle but I was like














because I never saw that on shampoo before. That sucks. I wasted so much shampoo and conditioner. Freaking Cloud is freakin 11 lbs and wasted so much freakin product on him. lol WHY DO I LOVE MY BABIES SO MUCH


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## babycoconut (Oct 27, 2004)

Well, i used my Biosilk on Coconut yesterday for her special Thanksgiving bath and she turned out really soft and pretty smelling!
She STILL smalls good, which is a feat in itself! I didn't let to leave the conditioner on too long because she started pooping in the tub, (ew! haha) and there were little "logs" floating around...
Next time i'm gonna bath her in the bathroom sink and we'll se how that goes.
But the shampoo seemed to make her hair more... floppy rather than puffy. She looks beautiful!


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## lani (Sep 14, 2004)

Okay, so I did tried the pet silk conditioner and wow it was SO NICE. Better than some expensive conditioner for humans. I loved it!







Ladies, you need to try this for sure!!! My future sister in law want it for her x'mas gift!


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## Snertsmom (Jul 18, 2004)

Someone on this post mentioned they bought Biosilk at Target.
We don't have a Target, but we do have a Wal Mart and Pet Smart, can you find it there? 
I usually bathe Sassi in Pantene and then I use the Aussie 'leave in' conditioner, but this Biosilk sounds wonderful!


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Nov 23 2004, 10:50 PM
> *I always wanted to ask but I was a little embarrass to.  Are you suppoe to dilute the shampoo and conditioner?  Is it concentrated?  If this is the case, I'm so upset I didn't ask sooner because I'm about to run out.  I don't think I'm going to buy the whitener there.  I'm going to try what Tlunn suggested.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=18298*


[/QUOTE]


What did I suggest?







LOL-you mean the clean scent package deal that I got!? Wonderful deal and he smells SO good!!! Everyone commented on our trip this weekend...and also how soft he was!!!! Pet silk rules!!!







(paired with the Biolage milk mist stuff too...







)


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## ilove_d&m (Apr 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole+Nov 24 2004, 01:34 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]
It means that if you are using 1 cup measurements, then it would be 10 cups water to one cup shampoo or conditioner.

Or if you are using tablespoons, it would be 10 tablespoons of water to 1 tablespoon shampoo or conditioner. 

It just refers to what ever you are using as a measuring device, you use 10 parts water and one part the shampoo or conditioner. 

Hope that helps.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=18432
[/B][/QUOTE]


Thank you Nicole


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## beccypaul (Oct 23, 2004)

does anyone know how i can get petsilk in england?!! have tried www.petsilk.co.uk and am not getting anywhere!!!


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by beccypaul_@Dec 8 2004, 04:03 PM
> *does anyone know how i can get petsilk in england?!! have tried www.petsilk.co.uk and am not getting anywhere!!!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=21355*


[/QUOTE]


does the mjm-petsilk site not ship overseas?


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

There's a Europe site: PetSilk Europe


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## beccypaul (Oct 23, 2004)

oh petsilkonline.com ships to england!!! thanks!! petsilkeurope is just for info.

are you supposed to dilute the shampoo's and conditioners?


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

You can dilute it 10:1 (1 part shampoo conditioner to 10 parts water). I just get Lexi really wet and then use a small amount of the shampoo and conditioner. Just make sure you rinse really well.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole_@Dec 9 2004, 11:34 AM
> *The diluting doesn't really work for me; we have really hard water and it is hard to build up a lather, so diluting it just seems to water down what is already hard to work with.  Just some FYI for those of you with hard water.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


I don't dilute it either...I use as much as I would with regular...maybe our water is hard too, because it is hard for me to get a lather up....never thought about it...


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

I'm starting to dilute it now. I think the shampoo is making Cloud's hair not shine as much because it's so concentrated.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole_@Dec 9 2004, 12:24 PM
> *Here is a little 411 about lathering...
> 
> Believe it or not, shampoos do not have to lather to be effective.  Shampoo companies add a lathering agent into shampoo to make it do that because people think it doesn't work if it doesn't lather.  Even though I know this, I still want to see lather!
> ...


[/QUOTE]


yeah, I felt the water on him diluted it too!!!!!!!
The lathering info is interesting.


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

Nicole--One day Cloud's going to bite you in the butt!









Anyway, it's winter time so I don't want to bathe them for long. I don't leave the shampoo and conditioner on long like you're suppose to. I should leave the conditioner on long though, but I feel SOOOOO bad. Also, I think because the Shampoo's so concentrated, I may contribute to their dry flaky skin.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

I'm rinsing well. It's the concentrated shampoo, I believe, and it's because I need to spread out their baths. How often do you give them baths? I use to wait every 5 days, but now, I'm aiming for 7 or more.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

u give them a bath every week?!!!!????


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Dec 9 2004, 11:50 AM
> *u give them a bath every week?!!!!????
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=21642*


[/QUOTE]








I'm trying not to. Dam* Petsilk! It smells so good!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

u should only bathe dogs once a month thats why u have flakes...it dries their skin out.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

I give Brinkley a bath every week too....no problems so far....


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

Once a month!?!? Ewww, they sleep with me sometimes though :/ And I know i'm weird, but sometimes, I kiss them all over their body. Man, I'm so embarrassed I said that! Tell me ya'll do that too!







When Cloud was neutered, I waited like 9 or 10 days and he just reeked. Plus it's been raining here and they've been LITERALLY rubbing their faces in the dirt. ARRRRGHHHH


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

man i cant believe all of u bathe them so much...my vet always said max every 3 weeks. i dont even have time to bath him everyweek


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

*whining voice* I'm trying!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

no wonder ur all u guys fluff butts look so fluffy all the time! ..i kiss park all over too...mostly his head though.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

A dog’s coat needs its oils to remain soft and silky and to keep from getting brittle or damaged. If you bathe your dog too often (every week, for example), you will strip away those oils.


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

You should NOT use human shampoo & cond. on dogs.
Their PH needs are Way different than our,s.Even though we all think our furbabies are human (nobody can confince me there not) they do have different PH needs.Not trying to make anyone mad at me,but as i do hair for a living this is something i know about.  Dont know much elese!lol


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

Lexi gets a bath every 1-2 weeks.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by sheila2182_@Dec 9 2004, 05:17 PM
> *You should NOT use human shampoo & cond. on dogs.
> Their PH needs are Way different than our,s.Even though we all think our furbabies are human (nobody can confince me there not) they do have different PH needs.Not trying to make anyone mad at me,but as i do hair for a living this is something i know about.   Dont know much elese!lol
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=21739*


[/QUOTE]


Nichole does hair too, and she can correct me if I remember it wrong, but I think she looked at the Petsilk products and they had the same ph as human shampoo or something, and she looked up dog hair ph-and it was the same as humans...or something like that. Whatever she concluded that it is OK to use human products on dog hair...
Isn't that what you said Nichole?


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

Maybe im wrong but i swear i read their,s was different than our,s.I will have to check it out.I dont want to tell anyone wrong


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## Mystify79 (Apr 6, 2004)

I don't have a bathing schedule with Tuffy.. I basically will give him a bath if he starts to really stink or look gross.. which ends up being maybe once or twice a month. I do wash his feet once a week though because he likes to stand in his pee.. even after he's finished going potty.







And I'll wash his feet if he gets muddy on a walk or something like that, but I don't wash him all over for stuff like that.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

A couple of years ago, I told the girl working at Pet Silk that I was using it on myself too. She said it's ok. The only difference between the human one (Biosilk) and the dog one was the Ph. So for what ever reason, the dog ph works better for my hair then the human ph. She also said she is using the liquid silk on herself as a body lotion.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by sheila2182_@Dec 9 2004, 06:32 PM
> *Maybe im wrong but i swear i read their,s was different than our,s.I will have to check it out.I dont want to tell anyone wrong
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


Very possible that I misunderstood Nichole...ha ha...


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

I hadent had time to check it out yet ,but since youve seen their flyer i wont have too.Thanks for setting me straight.I read so many of the posts about us using it ourselves im gonna give it a try!!IT smells soooo good


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## babycoconut (Oct 27, 2004)

Oh man, i'm gonna have to stop bathing Coconut so often. I was doing it every 5-6 days. I'll just wipe her off good tonight (tonight was supposed to be bath night!)with the wipes for inbetween bathing and hope that keeps her from being too stinky. heh.
She's not really stinky, she just has "puppy smell".
And, ButterCloud&Noriko, Don't feel so bad over there! I kiss Coco all over all the time! haha. It's so hard to restrain myself! She's probably always thinking "Ohhhh boy, here we go AGAIN!" hahaha.


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by babycoconut_@Dec 14 2004, 05:16 PM
> *And, ButterCloud&Noriko, Don't feel so bad over there! I kiss Coco all over all the time! haha. It's so hard to restrain myself! She's probably always thinking "Ohhhh boy, here we go AGAIN!" hahaha.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=23173*


[/QUOTE]
When the water starts running in the tub, Cloud and Noriko will, too, start running...away from me! haha. They would start walking away and looking back to see who I'm going to run after and bathe. It's so sad.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko+Dec 16 2004, 03:37 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When the water starts running in the tub, Cloud and Noriko will, too, start running...away from me! haha. They would start walking away and looking back to see who I'm going to run after and bathe. It's so sad.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=23652
[/B][/QUOTE]


Brinkley does that now too...and sits just out of reach outside the bathroom door







peeking around the corner)....then when he does come in, his tail is between his legs and he is sad -_- . But, he must have a bath...i just remind him he gets to be blowdried and get a treat when its all done.


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