# Praying to God for an angel, a miracle, or just some hope. Please help!!!!!



## kissmyhorse

You guys, I am turning to you because I literally have no where else to go. I have spun myself in circles trying to find a solution for me and Roxy. I hardly ever post here, but I read often. Here's my situation:

So 3 years ago I wound up rescuing (now 4 years old) Roxy after a series of funny but too-coincidental-to-just-be-coincidental incidents. She fit in great, I loved her, her brother adores her, etc. She was never awesome at housetraining but would use wee-wee pads relatively well and would also go outside sometimes and I was happy with that.

About a year ago it started. Peeing on the bed. Roxy had always slept in the bed right with me/next to me. At first I was like wtf happened? I had always thought dogs were smart enough not to use the bathroom where they ate or slept. Apparently not. She now pees in the bed almost anytime I leave the house, take a shower, or sometimes even when I'm just in the other room. On top of that, she stopped using her wee-wee pads and pisses and sh*** all over the carpet. I have f***ing had it. I have tried positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, and isolation. I have done things that I previously would have never been able to picture myself doing (like rubbing her nose in it, hard, spanking her, and leaving her outside to name a few). I have gone through the theories of territorial marking, possessive peeing, health issues, insecurities, nothing. Roxy now spends 90% or more of her time in her crate. Her crate is the size that is able to fit under an airline seat. Roxy is less than 5.5 lbs but I still didn't want to have her crate be that small but had no choice because anything larger she was in she would pee and poop in it, even when it had bedding, food, and water in it. She will even pee and poop in this teeny crate on top of her bedding, food and in her water. When she is not in her crate, she is outside going to the bathroom. I am not enjoying my little dog right now. I never snuggle her, she never sleeps with me and Bronco (my other dog), I cant even let her just be in the house. Roxy is now beginning to get scared of me because of how often she has been scolded and how unoften she has had snuggles and love and all the things that used to take up 99% of our time. She is not happy and neither am I. I am at the point of tears from anger at her, horrible sadness for her, shame and frustration. Please, please, please somebody help me. I am past the point of humility and truthfulness. I will do anything to get my happy family back. :smcry::smcry::smcry::smhelp::smhelp::smhelp:


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## CloudClan

I found your post really disturbing because it seems like you have withdrawn your affection for this little girl. 

Potty training is a common problem and many of us have faced difficulties with it, but so many of the things you have done have not been the right way to solve the problem (rubbing her face in it, spanking her) are actually abusive and could be contributing to the issues rather than doing anything to solve it. 

Given some of what you have described I really wonder about medical issues. When a dog has been potty trained and suddenly has incontinence issues it is often medical. The other possibility is that it is emotional. If you really want to help her first I would suggest ruling out a medical problem, then I would suggest that you hire a trainer. But as disturbed as I am about some of the things you have confessed here, I am not sure that this little girl should be in your care. I do feel sympathy for you, and the sense of frustration that you are expressing, but I have more sympathy for her. She has very little positive in her life right now if she is in a tiny crate 90% of the time and is scared of the person who is supposed to love her. :smcry: 

My suggestion would be to contact AMA rescue and let someone who is willing to give her a chance take her.


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## Dominic

^^^^^^^^
Carina said it all. I can't even imagine leaving one of my dogs inside a carry on crate for one day, imagine all the time. That's messed up. 
Sometimes you must be selfless and GIVE UP. You should consider giving up on her.


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## Neetaz

And Carina did say it all, I didn't want to be that blunt (thanks Carina)....but I had already typed the comment below!

wow sorry to hear about this. First you should never ever spank your animals, they don't know what this means. I know you are frustrated but I think part of your problem is the spanking.

You need to retrain yourself first to train your baby----start back to her being a puppy. Sounds like she wasn't ready to start sleeping out of her crate to begin with and since you accepted the few accidents she had she felt that she could just go anywhere, whenever she felt like it.

Some suggestions are to maybe get a new crate or scrub the other with bleach or pet urine remover. Don't put in a blanket or bedding for a couple of nights. You need to control what she is eating, feed her twice a day and make sure you are feeding her a high quality dog food and not one with fillers (they will just poop out the extra)-this forum has several good suggestions on food. When you feed her take her to the bathroom within 10 minutes of feeding her, if she doesn't go then put her back in her crate, and wait another 10 minutes--keep doing this until she goes to the bathroom--when she is out of her crate you need to make sure she is with you at all times so she doesn't have an opportunity to go potty. Only keep her out in 15-20 minute intervals and then re-crate her again. Take her potty every hour. When she goes snuggle and rub her belly anything to praise her...might not want to do treats if she is having a hard time controlling herself.

Eventually give her back her blanket and bedding after she keeps a clean kennel for a couple of nights and when you wake up and she has a clean kennel praise her and love her up again.

It will take patience for about two or three months but I think it is doable, but you need to commit the time.


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## michellerobison

My Amy began peeing all over not being able to control it, she peed when she slept, the vet put her on meds, she had some sort of nerve sensativity that caused her incontinence much like we have as we age with sudden and uncorntrollable urges to urinate as we age... He said we'd notice by the next day, if it worked. It did and she had no more incontinence issues.
My neighbour had the same thing with her dog and was going to PTS her,so I gave her the pills Amy had left after she died.. Told her try it, it you see improvement then have the vet perscribe them.It was a daily pill...
She did it for a couple months, worked fine but she decided she didn't have time to give a pill once per day with babysitting grandkids and PTS'd her dog...


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## Madeleinesmommy

I've had a nightmare experience with my Madeleine but even though I've had anger towards the situation I never did anything to her or isolated her. Punishment is not something that works and it just causes confusion.

I know this comment will probably get some angry replies but either you need to focus on retraining and if that does not work please consider giving her to someone else who can handle the situation and contact a Maltese rescue group. If you absolutely cannot handle her pottying why not put her in a doggy diaper so she can walk around and not be crated.

Have you looked into any medical causes?


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## Bailey&Me

CloudClan said:


> I found your post really disturbing because it seems like you have withdrawn your affection for this little girl.
> 
> Potty training is a common problem and many of us have faced difficulties with it, but so many of the things you have done have not been the right way to solve the problem (rubbing her face in it, spanking her) are actually abusive and could be contributing to the issues rather than doing anything to solve it.
> 
> Given some of what you have described I really wonder about medical issues. When a dog has been potty trained and suddenly has incontinence issues it is often medical. The other possibility is that it is emotional. If you really want to help her first I would suggest ruling out a medical problem, then I would suggest that you hire a trainer. But as disturbed as I am about some of the things you have confessed here, I am not sure that this little girl should be in your care. I do feel sympathy for you, and the sense of frustration that you are expressing, but I have more sympathy for her. She has very little positive in her life right now if she is in a tiny crate 90% of the time and is scared of the person who is supposed to love her. :smcry:
> 
> My suggestion would be to contact AMA rescue and let someone who is willing to give her a chance take her.


I had the same reaction but Carina said it much better than I could have. You mentioned you have already explored the possibility of medical issues - has she gotten a thorough exam, including blood work, from your vet? If so, my next step would be hiring a trainer (who uses POSITIVE methods) to come to your home to evaluate and help her.


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## dntdelay

I am not an expert but I don't think you should punish her. I think that you should see if she has a medical condition first and if she doesn't then I think you need to get a trainer that comes to your house to help you. There are also some trainers that will take your dog home with them for a while (depends on how long they need) to be re-trained and then the trainer and the dog will come back and they will train you. 


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## michellerobison

I know pottying can be frustrating.I went through that with foster dogs that were neglected and one now that was a puppymill dog, they pretty much potty anywhere,like wild animals since they live their whole life in a cage..
Obvously you love her or you wouldn't be asking for help...
What medical issues have been looked at... How old is she? Anything or any changes in household that could have occured to cause this...you never know... What is your housing situation? Highrise, city or house in the country .

Two of my rescues were wee pad trained,they ended up seeing on everything, rugs,papers that fell on the floor,area rugs,you name it,treating anything that laid on the floor as a wee pad... when I got them I was so frustrated but it took time to retrain them to potty outside. I don't use wee pads.
If I lived in an apartment in a high rise in a large city,I might reconsider that but since I live in a house in the country, they potty outside...


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## kissmyhorse

First off, I just want to say thank you guys so much for showing your support and taking the time to give me some advice. I've had some time to calm down and must say that I was a bit dramatic in my first post. The crate is relatively new and is being used as a last resort to try to train her to potty correctly. I am also confident that it is not a medical issue as she has no problem holding it until I take a shower or am out of view. I am definitely willing to admit that I am fully in the wrong with trying punishment as a form of training. I have always used positive reinforcement with her and all my other pets, but I have also never been pushed this far into the depths of true despair before either. This has actually been a very slow process over the last year. I have tried so many options I cant even count, but each time she has found a way to use the bathroom on the carpet and bed. So the latest tactic has been the crate. I don't like it, but I feel like I ran out of options 5 options ago. She's not in it 90% of the time (unless I am literally out of the house 90% of the day) and is actually out a lot of the time when I'm home. She will also go back in her crate when the door's left open just to snooze or what not even when she doesn't have to be in there. Roxy is not unhappy, but I know how much happier she could be and that's what hurts me. As for food, right now they are on Innova but in light of the recent recall I'm probably going to switch them. I'm also pretty sure Roxy has a mild poultry allergy (she also doesn't do well with 'warm' foods and was taken off Solid Gold because the main ingredient is lamb) so I'm thinking of switching them to TOTW Pacific Stream. She needs a low-ish protein food because of her abnormal liver (went through a whole battery of tests and even a biopsy. final result was that her liver works weird but theres nothing they can do about it). Anyways, I love this little dog. I know it may not seem like it, but I do, very very much and would not give her up for anything. Right now I have her leashed to me so I can keep an eye on her while shes out of her crate. Like I said, I'm beyond the point of humility so bluntless is no issue with me and I appreciate it. I am willing to do whatever I have to in order to fix this mess I'm in.


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## angel's mom

I tend to agree with the suggestion of relinquishing her to AMA. As much frustration as you have with her and your lack of desire to show her love and affection and the lack of trust that she has towards you, how do you go from there to where you both should be in time to save this sweet girl? JMHO


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## Madeleinesmommy

I just noticed something in your 2nd post. You are saying that she is pottying whenever you are away from her? I would not let her out of your sight until the situation is fixed. When you go to take a shower, take her in the bathroom with you, and continue to do that so she isn't alone at all because she will take the chance to potty when you are not looking.

I've posted on here before with my potty issues. Maddie is absolutely awful at going potty. She is very stubborn. Just the other day I was standing in the hall talking to my mom waiting for Maddie to finish eating so we could go pee and boom looked behind me and she was peeing. It was my fault for not supervising her.

Unless she has gone potty outside I would not let her have any free range of the house. 

Could you get an X-pen to put her in? That way she has extra room to move around in and you could line the area with potty pads.


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## pammy4501

Gosh..just at a loss for words. If you are for real and you do love this dog, please relinquish her to AMAR. You are just not the person for a Maltese. Not everyone is. This is not a breed for everyone. But what you are doing is criminal....seriously...criminal. So, stop! Give the dog up. It's for the best. (and p.s. consider not having children either. I don't think you have the patience for any of this) Sorry for the frank post. But this thread turned my stomach.


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## kissmyhorse

@Madelinesmommy - Yes, she won't potty in front of me. She either goes into another room or it's when I'm out of the house or in another room. I'm going to try to keep her leashed to me and see how that goes. I have tried the pen, but I feel it's counterproductive because it lets her potty in the house anyways :/

@ Angel's mom and Pammy - The care that you guys have for Roxy makes me feel like I am in the right place. I posted this knowing I would have stones thrown at me, but felt that maybe that's part of what needed to happen for me to get the advice I need in this situation. I have had Maltese since the age of four and will always have one with me. I don't know life without them and can't see the day that I will. I understand that I may look grotesque and hideous to some, and why not? I have taken wrong action and made bad choices. However, I know I have made some right ones too. I know that Roxy is not abused. I know that she is well cared for. There is no lack of desire to care for her and show her affection. And I know that she is loved and she knows it too. She is my shadow (along with her brother) whenever she's out of her crate. A large portion of why this has me turning is because it is putting distance between us. Something I have learned in the past few years that I feel applies to all areas in life is that just because you haven't experienced something yet, doesn't mean you wont. In other words, if we wait long enough, we will find ourselves in places we would have sworn we wouldn't be. Also, until you have been to that place, well, you just haven't been there. So as a recap, I should have waited until I was calm to write the first post, but everything happens for a reason I suppose. I am human, mistake ridden and foolish, but trying to make things better and I fully appreciate the support I have gotten so far.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

Bridgette ... I went back and read some of your older posts to see if there were any clues as to why Roxy might be having problems.

Almost to the date, three years ago, (June 28th and also July, 2010) you reached out to SM members for help. Roxy had the same issues then. So, this is not something new. 

I am wondering how/if you cleaned ... and, with what? ... all the areas where Roxy had accidents? My first thought is that she might have become confused as to where are the appropriate places to pee and do her BM's. If any of the areas were not cleaned properly, she could become confused, due to markings.

Also, in your post from three years ago ... you mention that Roxy would never go outside without you. First of all ... a Malt should never be left alone outside. And, perhaps something had happened to Roxy before you got her, that she did not want to go outside by herself anyway.

In addition, for Malt's who are able to use pads inside ... well, some of them want privacy when they pee or do poopies! I thought it was just my Snowball ... but, I've learned he is not the only Malt who does this! For some reason, he will pee in front of us, but he prefers to do his poopies without an audience. Not saying he won't do them without us looking ... but, he prefers his privacy. And, yes ... when on his walks, he will go outside if he needs to.

I'm also wondering if Roxy might be having accidents because she is now afraid to go in front of you at all now. Think about it ... if you are punishing her and rubbing her nose (poor baby) in it ... she could be totally confused. She probably thinks now that if she goes while you are with her ... she will be punished. So, thus, when you take a shower, etc ... she will then go, because she feels safe from being punished at the moment.

Do you mind sharing with us how old you are? In your posts from 2010, you said you were living with your mother, who is a school teacher. You also make mention that you are obsessed with the bond between canine and humans. You did say you go to school and work ... so, how many hours are your dogs (you had three in 2010) alone?

I feel so bad for Roxy. When things get to the point that you cannot care for her properly ... then I think you have to seriously consider turning her over to someone like AMAR, who can care for her properly. Why did your neighbors say you were greedy with your dogs? (In your June 28' 2010 thread). 

You say you love Roxy. Bridgette, it is so easy to say we love someone ... but, actions do speak louder than words. You need to do what, in your head and heart you know is best for Roxy. My opinion is that Roxy is being abused and neglected. If you can't take care of her properly, then do the right and unselfish thing .., and, allow someone else to give her the life she deserves.


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## kissmyhorse

When I got her, she had trouble but it got to a point where the accidents weren't bad, she was using her wee-wee pads regularly and never peed on the bed. She didn't like going outside and I didn't like her being outside so I never pressed for her to go anywhere but her pads. She does like her privacy. her pads have always been in an enclosed space. The best thing I've found is a giant storage bin with a hole cut into the side of it. I clean her accidents up with Resolve Pet foam cleaner and Pet carpet dust (the stuff you vacuum up). I am 22 now and moved out of my mom's place about 2.5 years ago. The third dog I mentioned is my moms dog who of course stayed with her when I moved out. 

When the peeing on the bed started I began to think that Roxy was getting confused about peeing inside so I started taking her outside more. She now goes outside to potty most of the time, however she still has access to wee-wee pads. Even with the pads still in the room, she will pee and poop elsewhere. I am just at a loss about what to do with her potty habits. I know that if you all knew me you would know that she is not abused or neglected. Believe it or not she is actually very well cared for. Just her bathroom issues have gotten so out of control. I don't mind hearing harsh words because I know good can come of them and somewhere in here there has to be a solution for us - that is what I'm digging for.


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## Bella&Daisy

pammy4501 said:


> Gosh..just at a loss for words. If you are for real and you do love this dog, please relinquish her to AMAR. You are just not the person for a Maltese. Not everyone is. This is not a breed for everyone. But what you are doing is criminal....seriously...criminal. So, stop! Give the dog up. It's for the best. (and p.s. consider not having children either. I don't think you have the patience for any of this) Sorry for the frank post. But this thread turned my stomach.


Unbelievable.. I'm gonna have to agree with Pammy about consider not having children because believe me kids do have accidents and if u don't have patience for ur dog what more a child. Please get some help or give her up to someone who train her. Good luck 


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## SuziLee

While your original post may have been exaggerated, there was truth in it and that truth is sad and disturbing. I'm heartbroken for poor Roxy. You have failed her on many levels. Saying that you would never give her up is not love but selfishness. I think it's time for her to be rescued from her "rescuer."


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## maggieh

You have gotten some great advice. It also sounds like this might have started around the time you moved out, so it may very well be emotional on Roxy's part. Also, what type of dog is your other dog? Is he dominant over Roxy?

If Roxy is now afraid of going potty in front of you for fear of being punished, you need to work - very hard - with a behaviorist to get to the root of the problem. If not, it's probably in Roxy's best interest to re-home her.


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## doobie mommy

:angry: 
Rubbing a dogs nose in waste IS abuse !
Spanking, slapping or hitting a dog IS abuse !
Isolating/crating a dog for punishment IS abuse !
Emotional and Physical abuse !

This is very disturbing to hear and you say she is well taken care of ? 
You are very lucky that you have 'some' members on this forum to offer support for your unacceptable behavior. AND you say you can't give her up ? Instead of trying to change your dog right now, maybe you need a change of heart. 
I personally cannot tolerate abusers in any way and can't offer help. My first, and usually correct thought is to get the animal away from the abuse. No second chances.


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## Furbabies mom

It really sounds like you are at the end of your rope! The more upset that you become the more Roxy will continue to pee or poop wherever! It takes patience, time and understanding to change this behavior. It seems like you do n't have the patience to do this. Hitting her and rubbing her nose in "it" apparently hasn't solved the problem, only made it worse. I agree with the others give her up! She deserves to be placed in a home that can work on her problems, and show her the love that she deserves.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

kissmyhorse said:


> When I got her, she had trouble but it got to a point where the accidents weren't bad, she was using her wee-wee pads regularly and never peed on the bed. She didn't like going outside and I didn't like her being outside so I never pressed for her to go anywhere but her pads. She does like her privacy. her pads have always been in an enclosed space. The best thing I've found is a giant storage bin with a hole cut into the side of it. I clean her accidents up with Resolve Pet foam cleaner and Pet carpet dust (the stuff you vacuum up). I am 22 now and moved out of my mom's place about 2.5 years ago. The third dog I mentioned is my moms dog who of course stayed with her when I moved out.
> 
> When the peeing on the bed started I began to think that Roxy was getting confused about peeing inside so I started taking her outside more. She now goes outside to potty most of the time, however she still has access to wee-wee pads. Even with the pads still in the room, she will pee and poop elsewhere. I am just at a loss about what to do with her potty habits. I know that if you all knew me you would know that she is not abused or neglected. Believe it or not she is actually very well cared for. Just her bathroom issues have gotten so out of control. I don't mind hearing harsh words because I know good can come of them and somewhere in here there has to be a solution for us - that is what I'm digging for.


You are saying here on this post that she never peed on the bed before. Go back and read your post from July 2, 2010. That was shortly after you got her and you said she was having problems then ... including peeing on the bed.

Has Roxy gained any weight in the past three years? She was very thin in the pictures I saw. And, you had mentioned that she had liver issues, too. Can you show us pictures of her?


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## pippersmom

You say that you KNOW its not a medical issue because she has no problem holding it until you're in the shower or whatever but have you actually had her checked by a vet to make sure there isn't something going on. It just isn't normal for a dog or any animal to eliminate in their own bed. Maybe you have already said she has seen a vet and I just missed that part.


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## Summergirl73

Please take a step back and hear what the others have tried to consistantly tell you. It's time to remove yourself from this situation. While I have no doubt that you love her, it is essential that we understand that not every Malt is a good fit in our lives. I too believe it is time to contact AMAR for rehoming her. At the very, very least, contact a behavioralist and listen and learn from them.


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## casa verde maltese

kissmyhorse said:


> First off, I just want to say thank you guys so much for showing your support and taking the time to give me some advice. I've had some time to calm down and must say that I was a bit dramatic in my first post. The crate is relatively new and is being used as a last resort to try to train her to potty correctly. I am also confident that it is not a medical issue as she has no problem holding it until I take a shower or am out of view. I am definitely willing to admit that I am fully in the wrong with trying punishment as a form of training. I have always used positive reinforcement with her and all my other pets, but I have also never been pushed this far into the depths of true despair before either. This has actually been a very slow process over the last year. I have tried so many options I cant even count, but each time she has found a way to use the bathroom on the carpet and bed. So the latest tactic has been the crate. I don't like it, but I feel like I ran out of options 5 options ago. She's not in it 90% of the time (unless I am literally out of the house 90% of the day) and is actually out a lot of the time when I'm home. She will also go back in her crate when the door's left open just to snooze or what not even when she doesn't have to be in there. Roxy is not unhappy, but I know how much happier she could be and that's what hurts me. As for food, right now they are on Innova but in light of the recent recall I'm probably going to switch them. I'm also pretty sure Roxy has a mild poultry allergy (she also doesn't do well with 'warm' foods and was taken off Solid Gold because the main ingredient is lamb) so I'm thinking of switching them to TOTW Pacific Stream. She needs a low-ish protein food because of her abnormal liver (went through a whole battery of tests and even a biopsy. final result was that her liver works weird but theres nothing they can do about it). Anyways, I love this little dog. I know it may not seem like it, but I do, very very much and would not give her up for anything. Right now I have her leashed to me so I can keep an eye on her while shes out of her crate. Like I said, I'm beyond the point of humility so bluntless is no issue with me and I appreciate it. I am willing to do whatever I have to in order to fix this mess I'm in.


While I'm not an expert on the potty training.. Atticus and Grace are good 90% of the time.. I read about others experiences... and the leash comment reminded me of someone who did just that.. leashed the dog to them when they were out of the crate and took them outside to potty every hour on the hour for 2 weeks straight! and gave the dog their ultimate favorite treat everytime the dog went outside. (and using the word potty). Now Atticus and Grace will go Potty 98% of the time when i am outside and they are dawdling and I say Potty - which is good.. and saves me time..

I know this is really frustrating.


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## Maizy Moo's Mum

Many potty training issues are blamed on the dog when in fact the OWNER is mainly to blame!!! 

If the dog has a medical issue then of course the owner is not to blame.

I take full responsibility in the length of time it took to potty train Maizy when she was a puppy this was before I found this site. I would sit outside with her and nothing then return inside and have a shower or go into the kitchen and she would go on the rug- HOWEVER this was ENTIRELY my fault as she was a 12 week old puppy who could not hold it and should not have been left alone at any point- I NEVER scolded her for this was my fault. A simple uh oh, persistence and positive praise and we got there and no accidents now! Scolding your dog has now probably made her scared and she doesn't know where and what she is meant to be doing anymore and all Maltese's want to do is please there owners.

Like others have mentioned I do not think you are going to be able to rectify this on your own I think a trainer needs to be involved and not just once, on a regular basis until a routine can be established! If you are unable to afford this or have the time for it then maybe the most selfless act would be to let someone else spend the time and effort into making this little girl happy again as it doesn't sound like she has any form of life right now. 

I also think a vet visit is in order to ensure that there is no medical reason behind this.


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## aprilb

CloudClan said:


> I found your post really disturbing because it seems like you have withdrawn your affection for this little girl.
> 
> Potty training is a common problem and many of us have faced difficulties with it, but so many of the things you have done have not been the right way to solve the problem (rubbing her face in it, spanking her) are actually abusive and could be contributing to the issues rather than doing anything to solve it.
> 
> Given some of what you have described I really wonder about medical issues. When a dog has been potty trained and suddenly has incontinence issues it is often medical. The other possibility is that it is emotional. If you really want to help her first I would suggest ruling out a medical problem, then I would suggest that you hire a trainer. But as disturbed as I am about some of the things you have confessed here, I am not sure that this little girl should be in your care. I do feel sympathy for you, and the sense of frustration that you are expressing, but I have more sympathy for her. She has very little positive in her life right now if she is in a tiny crate 90% of the time and is scared of the person who is supposed to love her. :smcry:
> 
> My suggestion would be to contact AMA rescue and let someone who is willing to give her a chance take her.


:goodpost:


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## mdbflorida

Honestly I just don't know what to say. I will tell you this as dogs get older they can change and you have to be consistent and almost start the process over. If it is not medical, than she is probably doing it for attention. I have to agree this might not be the breed for you. Smaller dogs need more attention and care. I know you want to do the right thing otherwise you would not have reached out for help.


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## aprilb

After reading all these posts, I agree that you should give her up...22 is a busy time in your life...probably not the best time for a dog, especially a Maltese...one of my Maltese took 2 years to potty train, and it took a lot of time and patience. She is 100% trustworthy and a happy girl...it sounds to me like Roxy is very anxious and confused...she needs someone who has the time and patience needed to help her. If you love her as much as you say you do, get her into rescue...


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## Orla

I'm sorry but she is abused - you admitted to hitting her plus more! 
I agree with the people that said you need to give her up. Please do - she needs to be in a better situation with people with more patience and love for her


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## mss

First, I think she is afraid of your displeasure when she relieves herself, and that's why she does it when you are not looking. So do not punish her either by yelling or physical means. 

Next, have her examined by a vet. Make sure she doesn't have a bladder infection or stones. (Liver disease is sometimes associated with bladder stones, too.) Ask about the medication for incontinence, as another comment suggested. 

Then, if there is nothing physically wrong with her, I think you should rethink the potty pad setup. There's nothing wrong with using potty pads as a backup even if you hope to eventually have her eliminate outside most of the time. She may not like the storage tub for the potty pads. I'd suggest putting the storage tub away (or throw it out) and put the potty pads on a flat surface. Either get a large tray (for example, the kind made for the bottom of a crate) or a plastic chair mat or even a small area of nylon tarp or some kind of heavy plastic. 

If you are not interested in using an exercise pen to contain her, then consider blocking off other parts of your home for a while to make it harder for her to eliminate anywhere else but the potty pads and outside.

Then you are probably going to have to start training from scratch, as if she were a tiny very young puppy. I would agree that a trainer might be a good idea if, and only if, it is a trainer who uses positive training methods. I do not believe dogs eliminate in places we don't like out of spite or dominance over us or attention-getting. 

If you can't step back and start what may be a long process of retraining her with positive methods and kindness, then I agree that it might be best to see if rescue can help find another home where they would have the time and patience to do this.


----------



## educ8m

Bridgette,
Although I agree you have made many mistakes with Roxy, I must say you have shown great courage in coming to this forum and posting about your issues with blunt honesty. To some of my fellow SMers, I think you crossed the line telling a 22 year old young woman that she should never have children! People do the best they can with the knowledge they have at the time. This is our chance to help educate Bridgette. If we drive her away with our outrage and pass judgement about her ability to raise children, we aren't helping Roxy or Bridgett. 

Now Bridgette, as you freely admit, you have made many mistakes. Right now, you must make a commitment to NEVER hit Roxy again and commit to doing whatever it takes to train her CORRECTLY and not confine her to a small crate. If you are willing to do that and actually listen to our advice, I think you will find that many of us will stand by you as you learn. If not, then you will quietly slink away and we may never hear from you again and Roxy's life will not improve. 

First, take a good look at your life. I am sure you love Roxy, but some dogs are MUCH harder to train than others. When an inexperienced owner with no knowledge of training gets a hard to train dog, it's rarely good. Many times these are the dogs given up. Is it better for Roxy if you make the ultimate sacrifice and give her to Maltese Rescue? If you are not ready for that step then let's get started.

You must take her to the vet for a complete physical including blood work and a urinalysis. Talk to the vet about the issues you are having.

Next, you need to do some research and find a GOOD training class near you. Hopefully you can find one that teaches clicker training. You need to learn the basics of how dogs learn. Most Petsmart or Petco stores are NOT the place to get good training. Ask your vet for suggestions, do Internet searches. Once you are in class, ask the trainer about a few private lessons to just focus on Roxy's potty issues. 

Read, read, read. Educate yourself. 

Yes, this will cost money. Six weeks of group training in my area runs anywhere from $80-$200. Vets cost money. A vet visit with bloodwork and a urinalysis would be about $250 for me. At 22, I don't know if you have the funds for this. If not, then again, having a hard to train dog is not going to work for you and is crueler to Roxy than turning her over to Rescue.

So, Bridgette, what are you willing to do?


----------



## IzzysBellasMom

:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

I just want to chime in that we use baby gates on all the bedroom doors that we keep open and also keep the bathroom doors closed. My Izzy is 98% potty trained, but we don't want her to have the chance to do something that she shouldn't. If you are going to keep Roxy, definitely start over like it is day 1. Having her leashed to you is a great start. If you cannot be right next to her, then she should be in the crate. Cut off her access to the rest of the house like you would a new puppy. And maybe you need to change what you are cleaning with to something a little more stronger. You may even need to buy new bedding to be sure the smell is out of it. You definitely need to work on your relationship with her and build her trust in you. It also sounds to me like she is afraid to potty when you are near, so she waits until you are out of the room to potty.


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## jenna123

kissmyhorse said:


> When I got her, she had trouble but it got to a point where the accidents weren't bad, she was using her wee-wee pads regularly and never peed on the bed. She didn't like going outside and I didn't like her being outside so I never pressed for her to go anywhere but her pads. She does like her privacy. her pads have always been in an enclosed space. The best thing I've found is a giant storage bin with a hole cut into the side of it. I clean her accidents up with Resolve Pet foam cleaner and Pet carpet dust (the stuff you vacuum up). I am 22 now and moved out of my mom's place about 2.5 years ago. The third dog I mentioned is my moms dog who of course stayed with her when I moved out.
> 
> When the peeing on the bed started I began to think that Roxy was getting confused about peeing inside so I started taking her outside more. She now goes outside to potty most of the time, however she still has access to wee-wee pads. Even with the pads still in the room, she will pee and poop elsewhere. I am just at a loss about what to do with her potty habits. I know that if you all knew me you would know that she is not abused or neglected. Believe it or not she is actually very well cared for. Just her bathroom issues have gotten so out of control. I don't mind hearing harsh words because I know good can come of them and somewhere in here there has to be a solution for us - that is what I'm digging for.



If she goes outside to potty you don't need wee pads at home. I've tried having both and it just doesn't work. You need to do only one method or they will be confused. It took me 8 months to potty train Boo but he still has accidents like maybe once every few months. It was really frustrating at first but I never punished him for having accidents, you just tell him No a few times and clean up the mess very good and don't give any treats. That's from my experience.


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## poochie2

I am going to say it straight: The way you are treating your malt is DISGUSTING. No dog deserves to be treated that badly. I was shocked to read this
"Roxy now spends 90% or more of her time in her crate. Her crate is the size that is able to fit under an airline seat." AND THIS " I have f***ing had it. I have tried positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, and isolation. I have done things that I previously would have never been able to picture myself doing (like rubbing her nose in it, hard, spanking her, and leaving her outside to name a few). " 
Of course Roxy is afraid of you . Please re-home that dog . Your behaviour towards her peeing and pooping is abusive !!!! YOU need help, NOT the dog.
Gosh I am so angry when I read this crap. Did you ever think that that maybe she is peeing and pooping because there is an underlying issue ? Putting her is a tiny crate and rubbing her nose in **** hard and slapping her is abuse !! Like I said re-home that dog, get her to a rescue and get yourself some serious help.


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## bailey02

educ8m said:


> Bridgette,
> Although I agree you have made many mistakes with Roxy, I must say you have shown great courage in coming to this forum and posting about your issues with blunt honesty. To some of my fellow SMers, I think you crossed the line telling a 22 year old young woman that she should never have children! People do the best they can with the knowledge they have at the time. This is our chance to help educate Bridgette. If we drive her away with our outrage and pass judgement about her ability to raise children, we aren't helping Roxy or Bridgett.
> 
> Now Bridgette, as you freely admit, you have made many mistakes. Right now, you must make a commitment to NEVER hit Roxy again and commit to doing whatever it takes to train her CORRECTLY and not confine her to a small crate. If you are willing to do that and actually listen to our advice, I think you will find that many of us will stand by you as you learn. If not, then you will quietly slink away and we may never hear from you again and Roxy's life will not improve.
> 
> First, take a good look at your life. I am sure you love Roxy, but some dogs are MUCH harder to train than others. When an inexperienced owner with no knowledge of training gets a hard to train dog, it's rarely good. Many times these are the dogs given up. Is it better for Roxy if you make the ultimate sacrifice and give her to Maltese Rescue? If you are not ready for that step then let's get started.
> 
> You must take her to the vet for a complete physical including blood work and a urinalysis. Talk to the vet about the issues you are having.
> 
> Next, you need to do some research and find a GOOD training class near you. Hopefully you can find one that teaches clicker training. You need to learn the basics of how dogs learn. Most Petsmart or Petco stores are NOT the place to get good training. Ask your vet for suggestions, do Internet searches. Once you are in class, ask the trainer about a few private lessons to just focus on Roxy's potty issues.
> 
> Read, read, read. Educate yourself.
> 
> Yes, this will cost money. Six weeks of group training in my area runs anywhere from $80-$200. Vets cost money. A vet visit with bloodwork and a urinalysis would be about $250 for me. At 22, I don't know if you have the funds for this. If not, then again, having a hard to train dog is not going to work for you and is crueler to Roxy than turning her over to Rescue.
> 
> So, Bridgette, what are you willing to do?


:goodpost::goodpost:


----------



## Snowball Pie's Mommi

jenna123 said:


> If she goes outside to potty you don't need wee pads at home. I've tried having both and it just doesn't work. You need to do only one method or they will be confused. It took me 8 months to potty train Boo but he still has accidents like maybe once every few months. It was really frustrating at first but I never punished him for having accidents, you just tell him No a few times and clean up the mess very good and don't give any treats. That's from my experience.


I totally disagree that our fluffs can't be trained to use potty pads inside and go outside, too. Snowball does both and we have never had a problem.


----------



## Snowball Pie's Mommi

educ8m said:


> Bridgette,
> Although I agree you have made many mistakes with Roxy, I must say you have shown great courage in coming to this forum and posting about your issues with blunt honesty. To some of my fellow SMers, I think you crossed the line telling a 22 year old young woman that she should never have children! People do the best they can with the knowledge they have at the time. This is our chance to help educate Bridgette. If we drive her away with our outrage and pass judgement about her ability to raise children, we aren't helping Roxy or Bridgett.
> 
> Now Bridgette, as you freely admit, you have made many mistakes. Right now, you must make a commitment to NEVER hit Roxy again and commit to doing whatever it takes to train her CORRECTLY and not confine her to a small crate. If you are willing to do that and actually listen to our advice, I think you will find that many of us will stand by you as you learn. If not, then you will quietly slink away and we may never hear from you again and Roxy's life will not improve.
> 
> First, take a good look at your life. I am sure you love Roxy, but some dogs are MUCH harder to train than others. When an inexperienced owner with no knowledge of training gets a hard to train dog, it's rarely good. Many times these are the dogs given up. Is it better for Roxy if you make the ultimate sacrifice and give her to Maltese Rescue? If you are not ready for that step then let's get started.
> 
> You must take her to the vet for a complete physical including blood work and a urinalysis. Talk to the vet about the issues you are having.
> 
> Next, you need to do some research and find a GOOD training class near you. Hopefully you can find one that teaches clicker training. You need to learn the basics of how dogs learn. Most Petsmart or Petco stores are NOT the place to get good training. Ask your vet for suggestions, do Internet searches. Once you are in class, ask the trainer about a few private lessons to just focus on Roxy's potty issues.
> 
> Read, read, read. Educate yourself.
> 
> Yes, this will cost money. Six weeks of group training in my area runs anywhere from $80-$200. Vets cost money. A vet visit with bloodwork and a urinalysis would be about $250 for me. At 22, I don't know if you have the funds for this. If not, then again, having a hard to train dog is not going to work for you and is crueler to Roxy than turning her over to Rescue.
> 
> So, Bridgette, what are you willing to do?


:goodpost:


----------



## poochie2

Oh and I forgot to mention one more thing....We have a new system in Canada where if you suspect a dog is being abused you call this hotline and the authorities are sent out to investigate. ( YOU ) would be definitely charged with ANIMAL ABUSE if you lived in Canada.
STOP hurting that dog..... it just sickens me!!! . Your behaviour is NOT normal and you have anger issues. No one in their right mind would treat a dog like you have no matter what. Seriously, Roxy deserves better. Please RE-HOME that dog as soon as possible. 

If you came here saying, you know what SM I need help with Roxy because she is pooping and peeing all over the place and I need help... then I would give you advice and genuinely try to help you out as best as I can .. but when I hear that you are hurting that innocent malt by hitting/ slapping her , shoving her face in her poop... well then I have no sympathy to you whatsoever.

Your thread is titled" Praying to God for an angel, a miracle, or just some hope. Please help!!!!!" ....... I AM praying to God for an angel, a miracle and hope... that little Roxy is safe and away from abuse and that she finds the right home where she is treated with love and care.


----------



## Snowball Pie's Mommi

IzzysBellasMom said:


> :goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:
> 
> I just want to chime in that we use baby gates on all the bedroom doors that we keep open and also keep the bathroom doors closed. My Izzy is 98% potty trained, but we don't want her to have the chance to do something that she shouldn't. If you are going to keep Roxy, definitely start over like it is day 1. Having her leashed to you is a great start. If you cannot be right next to her, then she should be in the crate. Cut off her access to the rest of the house like you would a new puppy. And maybe you need to change what you are cleaning with to something a little more stronger. You may even need to buy new bedding to be sure the smell is out of it. You definitely need to work on your relationship with her and build her trust in you. It also sounds to me like she is afraid to potty when you are near, so she waits until you are out of the room to potty.


I was thinking about the cleaning issues, too ... that maybe something stronger is needed. Even a new bed, too.


----------



## mrsmediauph

educ8m said:


> Bridgette,
> Although I agree you have made many mistakes with Roxy, I must say you have shown great courage in coming to this forum and posting about your issues with blunt honesty. To some of my fellow SMers, I think you crossed the line telling a 22 year old young woman that she should never have children! People do the best they can with the knowledge they have at the time. This is our chance to help educate Bridgette. If we drive her away with our outrage and pass judgement about her ability to raise children, we aren't helping Roxy or Bridgett.
> 
> Now Bridgette, as you freely admit, you have made many mistakes. Right now, you must make a commitment to NEVER hit Roxy again and commit to doing whatever it takes to train her CORRECTLY and not confine her to a small crate. If you are willing to do that and actually listen to our advice, I think you will find that many of us will stand by you as you learn. If not, then you will quietly slink away and we may never hear from you again and Roxy's life will not improve.
> 
> First, take a good look at your life. I am sure you love Roxy, but some dogs are MUCH harder to train than others. When an inexperienced owner with no knowledge of training gets a hard to train dog, it's rarely good. Many times these are the dogs given up. Is it better for Roxy if you make the ultimate sacrifice and give her to Maltese Rescue? If you are not ready for that step then let's get started.
> 
> You must take her to the vet for a complete physical including blood work and a urinalysis. Talk to the vet about the issues you are having.
> 
> Next, you need to do some research and find a GOOD training class near you. Hopefully you can find one that teaches clicker training. You need to learn the basics of how dogs learn. Most Petsmart or Petco stores are NOT the place to get good training. Ask your vet for suggestions, do Internet searches. Once you are in class, ask the trainer about a few private lessons to just focus on Roxy's potty issues.
> 
> Read, read, read. Educate yourself.
> 
> Yes, this will cost money. Six weeks of group training in my area runs anywhere from $80-$200. Vets cost money. A vet visit with bloodwork and a urinalysis would be about $250 for me. At 22, I don't know if you have the funds for this. If not, then again, having a hard to train dog is not going to work for you and is crueler to Roxy than turning her over to Rescue.
> 
> So, Bridgette, what are you willing to do?


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

Completely 100% agree! It took a lot of courage for you to post honestly here and who are any of us to judge you. You are asking for help and hopefully you can get back on track with Roxy. From day one I trained Lily to go outside and never used "pee pads". I took her outside every 20 minutes when I was home. When I wasn't home she was in her crate. I think you need to treat her like a puppy and start all over again with training her and regaining her trust. I also think getting a trainer to come to your place for some one on one training would help. We are going to do that for Lily because she has some "issues" with running off with things she shouldn't. :innocent:

I'm probably in the minority here but I only share my bed with my hubby. Lily sleeps in her crate in the kitchen at night. We keep the door to the crate open for her when we are home and she actually goes in there for "peace and quiet" and napping.

I wish you all the best in getting things back on track with Roxy. Wanda


----------



## edelweiss

educ8m said:


> Bridgette,
> Although I agree you have made many mistakes with Roxy, I must say you have shown great courage in coming to this forum and posting about your issues with blunt honesty. To some of my fellow SMers, I think you crossed the line telling a 22 year old young woman that she should never have children! People do the best they can with the knowledge they have at the time. This is our chance to help educate Bridgette. If we drive her away with our outrage and pass judgement about her ability to raise children, we aren't helping Roxy or Bridgett.
> 
> Now Bridgette, as you freely admit, you have made many mistakes. Right now, you must make a commitment to NEVER hit Roxy again and commit to doing whatever it takes to train her CORRECTLY and not confine her to a small crate. If you are willing to do that and actually listen to our advice, I think you will find that many of us will stand by you as you learn. If not, then you will quietly slink away and we may never hear from you again and Roxy's life will not improve.
> 
> First, take a good look at your life. I am sure you love Roxy, but some dogs are MUCH harder to train than others. When an inexperienced owner with no knowledge of training gets a hard to train dog, it's rarely good. Many times these are the dogs given up. Is it better for Roxy if you make the ultimate sacrifice and give her to Maltese Rescue? If you are not ready for that step then let's get started.
> 
> You must take her to the vet for a complete physical including blood work and a urinalysis. Talk to the vet about the issues you are having.
> 
> Next, you need to do some research and find a GOOD training class near you. Hopefully you can find one that teaches clicker training. You need to learn the basics of how dogs learn. Most Petsmart or Petco stores are NOT the place to get good training. Ask your vet for suggestions, do Internet searches. Once you are in class, ask the trainer about a few private lessons to just focus on Roxy's potty issues.
> 
> Read, read, read. Educate yourself.
> 
> Yes, this will cost money. Six weeks of group training in my area runs anywhere from $80-$200. Vets cost money. A vet visit with bloodwork and a urinalysis would be about $250 for me. At 22, I don't know if you have the funds for this. If not, then again, having a hard to train dog is not going to work for you and is crueler to Roxy than turning her over to Rescue.
> 
> So, Bridgette, what are you willing to do?


:goodpost::goodpost:
I extend grace to you and expect in return that you will extend it to your baby girl. We all need to receive it and give it, even when we don't feel like it is deserved---but that is what grace is all about!


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## michellerobison

This started when you moved out, maybe Roxy is bonded with your mom's dog and feels unsure now that they're separated...Especially if your mom's dog was the dominant one...Possibility.
dogs can also sense a lot of things we don't they can tell if we're sad or angry, no mater how much we disguise it .They also feel excitement and it can confuse them..
I have to work to contain my excitement when Daisy does a positive step because she's not sure how to recieve positive feedback... I stay to stay calm when she does a major accomplishment like potty outside... I give her a treat as soon as she's done...

Sometimes a dog's lack of confidence ,they need the dominant dog , who is usually the calming force to keep them grounded...they look to them and their reactions to emotions a a guide...maybe even to potty. 

Pottying is a very vulnerable position, you can't really run or defend yourself for a few seconds while you potty... That might be part of her issue is feeling vulnerable when she pottys...

Maybe ,if your mom would take her for a while, see how she does...


I have a puppymill foster and she was all teeth and hair when I picked her up from another rescue, (Mini Cujo) wouldn't have a thing to do with us. They put her in the carrier wearing heavy gloves and they had her over two weeks!
Soon as we got home and I let me dogs greet her and I loved up my dogs,she felt the calmness. she let me hold her without trying to bite...

Some dogs can handle being the sole dog,but some don't, some really need another dog.


----------



## edelweiss

michellerobison said:


> This started when you moved out, maybe Roxy is bonded with your mom's dog and feels unsure now that they're separated...Especially if your mom's dog was the dominant one...Possibility.
> dogs can also sense a lot of things we don't they can tell if we're sad or angry, no mater how much we disguise it .They also feel excitement and it can confuse them..
> I have to work to contain my excitement when Daisy does a positive step because she's not sure how to recieve positive feedback... I stay to stay calm when she does a major accomplishment like potty outside... I give her a treat as soon as she's done...
> 
> Sometimes a dog's lack of confidence ,they need the dominant dog , who is usually the calming force to keep them grounded...they look to them and their reactions to emotions a a guide...maybe even to potty.
> 
> Pottying is a very vulnerable position, you can't really run or defend yourself for a few seconds while you potty... That might be part of her issue is feeling vulnerable when she pottys...
> 
> Maybe ,if your mom would take her for a while, see how she does...
> I have a puppymill foster and she was all teeth and hair when I picked her up from another rescue, wouldn't have a thing to do with us.Soon as we got home and I let me dogs greet her and I loved up my dogs, she let me hold her without trying to bite...
> 
> Some dogs can handle being the sole dog,but some don't, some really need another dog.


:goodpost:


----------



## eiksaa

I agree with others who have said she's probably afraid to go potty when you are there because she is afraid of the consequences. 

This is going to be hard and it will take time. So you need to decide if you have the time and patience for it. If not, please give her up to the AMA. If you do, start from scratch like she were a puppy. 

Gustave is 1yr old and he still doesn't have access to the whole house. I personally do not think there's anything wrong with a dog being confined to a crate as long as you were truly exaggerating about the 90% time thing. 

I also think a fresh start might be in order. Get a new crate/crate bed and start feeding her in the crate. Then, also have a very small pen for her. Do not leave her in the pen unless you are watching her like a hawk. If you can't (like you are going for a shower), put her in the crate. 

Go ahead and bring her out every 20-30 min. If she doesn't pee, bring her back. Leave her in the pen. If you leaving the room is what it takes, hide. As soon as she starts to go, carry her out, let her finish outside and give her a lot of love and treats. Just make each potty trip into a party. And you are going to need a big party, to undo the negative associations she has currently. 

She should not have access to your bed till she's reliably trained. The only time I would let her roam freely is for 30min after pee. And even then only in a confined space where you can watch her. That might be a good time to play with her too. 

One trick I use is if Gustave (and now Mieka) don't go potty right away, instead of putting them in a crate I snuggle with them for 20minutes, and then try again. They won't pee on your lap, so I find that to be an effective method too. 




Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Lacie's Mom

Bridgette -- you've gotten great advice from many of our SM members. I hope that you will be able to get Roxy secure and trained for both of your sakes. If not, then it is time to surrender her to a rescue organization for both your sanity and her happiness.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

michellerobison said:


> This started when you moved out, maybe Roxy is bonded with your mom's dog and feels unsure now that they're separated...Especially if your mom's dog was the dominant one...Possibility.
> dogs can also sense a lot of things we don't they can tell if we're sad or angry, no mater how much we disguise it .They also feel excitement and it can confuse them..
> I have to work to contain my excitement when Daisy does a positive step because she's not sure how to recieve positive feedback... I stay to stay calm when she does a major accomplishment like potty outside... I give her a treat as soon as she's done...
> 
> Sometimes a dog's lack of confidence ,they need the dominant dog , who is usually the calming force to keep them grounded...they look to them and their reactions to emotions a a guide...maybe even to potty.
> 
> Pottying is a very vulnerable position, you can't really run or defend yourself for a few seconds while you potty... That might be part of her issue is feeling vulnerable when she pottys...
> 
> Maybe ,if your mom would take her for a while, see how she does...
> 
> 
> I have a puppymill foster and she was all teeth and hair when I picked her up from another rescue, (Mini Cujo) wouldn't have a thing to do with us. They put her in the carrier wearing heavy gloves and they had her over two weeks!
> Soon as we got home and I let me dogs greet her and I loved up my dogs,she felt the calmness. she let me hold her without trying to bite...
> 
> Some dogs can handle being the sole dog,but some don't, some really need another dog.


Bridgette was still living with her mother when Roxy first had problems. You can read her thread asking for help on June 28, 2010 ... three years ago. I would provide the link, but, am embarrassed to admit I don't know how to do it.

I love the rest of your thoughtful and helpful post.:tender:


----------



## jenna123

poochie2 said:


> Oh and I forgot to mention one more thing....We have a new system in Canada where if you suspect a dog is being abused you call this hotline and the authorities are sent out to investigate. ( YOU ) would be definitely charged with ANIMAL ABUSE if you lived in Canada.
> STOP hurting that dog..... it just sickens me!!! . Your behaviour is NOT normal and you have anger issues. No one in their right mind would treat a dog like you have no matter what. Seriously, Roxy deserves better. Please RE-HOME that dog as soon as possible.
> 
> If you came here saying, you know what SM I need help with Roxy because she is pooping and peeing all over the place and I need help... then I would give you advice and genuinely try to help you out as best as I can .. but when I hear that you are hurting that innocent malt by hitting/ slapping her , shoving her face in her poop... well then I have no sympathy to you whatsoever.
> 
> Your thread is titled" Praying to God for an angel, a miracle, or just some hope. Please help!!!!!" ....... I AM praying to God for an angel, a miracle and hope... that little Roxy is safe and away from abuse and that she finds the right home where she is treated with love and care.



I didn't know about the hotline if we suspect someone is abusing their dog and I live in Canada!


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## pammy4501

Had a night to think on this. It still makes me sick to think of a little malt having the nose rubbed in poo and spankings. We all know how sensitive these dogs are. But everyone is right. It did take a certain amount of courage to fess up to your mistakes. And lucky for you...all dogs are forgiving. But it will take a major amount of work on your part to correct this. And you might never get 100% potty training out of her. I love my dogs dearly. I would say that Truffles is 99% potty trained, and Frank about 90%. He is a marker. I deal with that all the time. I never punish him or get mad at him. When he has a mistake, I consider it my fault, because I didn't watch for his warning signs etc. The responsibility for this is on you. When Roxy has a mistake, it's YOUR FAULT. Remember that first and foremost. There are lots of good threads here about potty training. You should have availed yourself of these long ago as a member here. And at the end of the day, if you can't cope with Roxy, you must let her go to rescue. It's the loving thing to do.


----------



## Gongjoo

I'm late coming to this thread, and this may be repetitive, but I'm going to throw in my 2 cents anyway. 

I'm one who promotes crate training, key word being_ training._ Khloee has been cratetrained since the day I got her, and she did wonderfully with potty training with the exception of a couple sporadic accidents in the past. HOWEVER, I never kept her confined in a crate for 90% of the day. I really hope that was an exaggeration on your part.

I think every single person on this forum has been frustrated at one time or another with potty training. If you research the maltese breed, you will be openly informed that maltese struggle with house breaking. It takes a LOT of time and patience, and should be something considered prior to acquisition. Khloee was crate trained from day 1, and almost 9 months later, I still pay for a sitter to come over several times a day to let her out and play with her so she isn't confined too long while I am at work. We JUST progressed to getting rid of the crate and using the play pen only, and I know we have a _long _time before, if ever, Khloee will have full run of the house. Like I said, it takes time, patience, money...but these were things I researched and were ready to commit myself to before I brought Khloee home. I think you probably should have done some more research beforehand. 

I wont go so far to say you shouldn't have kids, because that's reaching a bit. However, I will say that what I find absolutely infuriating is that you acknowledge what you are doing is wrong, but do it anyway! What's more, it seems that when one method fails, you progress to harsher strategies; its unacceptable, and blows my mind. Some here consider 22 young and reason for heghtened nativity, but as a 25 year old I say you are a grown, educated woman who should know better. Truly- I don't interpret you coming forth on this forum as courageous. Rather, I think you were looking for others to sympathize with you and relieve some of your guilt. 

Like others have said, you have gotten some really good advice here. I'm not sure what you will choose to do, but whichever path you choose, please, please, PLEASE do the selfless and right thing by HER.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

pammy4501 said:


> Had a night to think on this. It still makes me sick to think of a little malt having the nose rubbed in poo and spankings. We all know how sensitive these dogs are. But everyone is right. It did take a certain amount of courage to fess up to your mistakes. And lucky for you...all dogs are forgiving. But it will take a major amount of work on your part to correct this. And you might never get 100% potty training out of her. I love my dogs dearly. I would say that Truffles is 99% potty trained, and Frank about 90%. He is a marker. I deal with that all the time. I never punish him or get mad at him. When he has a mistake, I consider it my fault, because I didn't watch for his warning signs etc. The responsibility for this is on you. When Roxy has a mistake, it's YOUR FAULT. Remember that first and foremost. There are lots of good threads here about potty training. You should have availed yourself of these long ago as a member here. And at the end of the day, if you can't cope with Roxy, you must let her go to rescue. It's the loving thing to do.


:goodpost:


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## pammy4501

Gongjoo said:


> I'm late coming to this thread, and this may be repetitive, but I'm going to throw in my 2 cents anyway.
> 
> I'm one who promotes crate training, key word being_ training._ Khloee has been cratetrained since the day I got her, and she did wonderfully with potty training with the exception of a couple sporadic accidents in the past. HOWEVER, I never kept her confined in a crate for 90% of the day. I really hope that was an exaggeration on your part.
> 
> I think every single person on this forum has been frustrated at one time or another with potty training. If you research the maltese breed, you will be openly informed that maltese struggle with house breaking. It takes a LOT of time and patience, and should be something considered prior to acquisition. Khloee was crate trained from day 1, and almost 9 months later, I still pay for a sitter to come over several times a day to let her out and play with her so she isn't confined too long while I am at work. We JUST progressed to getting rid of the crate and using the play pen only, and I know we have a _long _time before, if ever, Khloee will have full run of the house. Like I said, it takes time, patience, money...but these were things I researched and were ready to commit myself to before I brought Khloee home. I think you probably should have done some more research beforehand.
> 
> I wont go so far to say you shouldn't have kids, because that's reaching a bit. However, I will say that what I find absolutely infuriating is that you acknowledge what you are doing is wrong, but do it anyway! What's more, it seems that when one method fails, you progress to harsher strategies; its unacceptable, and blows my mind. Some here consider 22 young and reason for heghtened nativity, but as a 25 year old I say you are a grown, educated woman who should know better. Truly- I don't interpret you coming forth on this forum as courageous. Rather, I think you were looking for others to sympathize with you and relieve some of your guilt.
> 
> Like others have said, you have gotten some really good advice here. I'm not sure what you will choose to do, but whichever path you choose, please, please, PLEASE do the selfless and right thing by HER.


I will reign in the kid comment to this. At 22 the OP is not ready for kids based on her patience level with her dog. She has a lot of growing up to do. Dogs and kids are something that takes total committment and lots of time. Neither is a short term relationship.


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## Gongjoo

pammy4501 said:


> I will reign in the kid comment to this. At 22 the OP is not ready for kids based on her patience level with her dog. She has a lot of growing up to do. Dogs and kids are something that takes total committment and lots of time. Neither is a short term relationship.


 
Agreed, total commitment; life long :thumbsup:


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## poochie2

jenna123 said:


> I didn't know about the hotline if we suspect someone is abusing their dog and I live in Canada!



Yes I believe it is in Ontario and it is called Paw Tipster hotline. You can google it. This is such a good thing to have. Each call is treated the same way as if someone was calling a Crime Stoppers hotline.
"This partnership sheds light on the fact that animal cruelty is a serious crime and will be investigated."

Slapping, hitting, confining excessively and punishing animals is ABUSE and it is a very serious issue. There is NO excuse to treat any animal in such an inhumane way. Shame on those people !!!


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## Madeleinesmommy

I've haven't read through all of the responses but has Roxy's potty issues gotten worse since you moved out of your parents? I'm still at home with my parents and my brother and his dog moved out in January and that's when I started having major issues with Maddie. It was a big adjustment to lose her sister that she was raised from 16 weeks on with.


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## maltese manica

jenna123 said:


> I didn't know about the hotline if we suspect someone is abusing their dog and I live in Canada!


 
Yes its like crimestoppers but for animals instead! And personally they do to much either! My friend actually used this to report a person who tied up his dog night and day outside in the garage and litterally beats the heck out of it!!! Guess what nothing was done about it!!!! She then tried to call OSPCA and they said as long as the dog has shelter and food and no signs of injury nothing can be done:blink: Plus the fact look at our pet store that is abusing the animals there nothing is being done there either!!! You saw it Shirley at the pooch fest!!! The one lady that was litterally dragging the dog on its belly!!! and it was right in front of OSPCA and the police that were there informing people not to leave the dogs in the car!!! And yet this woman hit her dog which was a 2.5 pound Chi!!! I asked OSPCA why they were not going to do anything about that woman, and they told me she is not doing anything wrong!!! WTF!!!! Whats the point of having an animal when you dont treat it properly? It really makes me sad to hear when people hit and abuse animals in any way!


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## Yogi's Mom

*Well Well Well!!!!!*
*I Have Read this over 3 Times, all The Posts.*
*Iam Praying for the Owner and All of You That Replyed also.*

*I Hope that She Resolves this Issue. Its Been Some time as Marie Pointed out.*
*I Just Cant Begin to write how I feel about all this.*
*Praying Just Praying. Nickee in Pa**


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## casa verde maltese

Great advice, great suggestions and many, many feelings. I hope the OP takes the advice - re-evaluates and makes an informed and good decision, but she may never let us know.


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## jenna123

maltese manica said:


> Yes its like crimestoppers but for animals instead! And personally they do to much either! My friend actually used this to report a person who tied up his dog night and day outside in the garage and litterally beats the heck out of it!!! Guess what nothing was done about it!!!! She then tried to call OSPCA and they said as long as the dog has shelter and food and no signs of injury nothing can be done:blink: Plus the fact look at our pet store that is abusing the animals there nothing is being done there either!!! You saw it Shirley at the pooch fest!!! The one lady that was litterally dragging the dog on its belly!!! and it was right in front of OSPCA and the police that were there informing people not to leave the dogs in the car!!! And yet this woman hit her dog which was a 2.5 pound Chi!!! I asked OSPCA why they were not going to do anything about that woman, and they told me she is not doing anything wrong!!! WTF!!!! Whats the point of having an animal when you dont treat it properly? It really makes me sad to hear when people hit and abuse animals in any way!



Most of these organizations don't do much. I Can't believe the OSPCA said that. Was it the woman??? I hope that one day the humans that beat their pets will become a pet next life and get beaten badly.


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## maltese manica

jenna123 said:


> Most of these organizations don't do much. I Can't believe the OSPCA said that. Was it the woman??? I hope that one day the humans that beat their pets will become a pet next life and get beaten badly.


 
Shirley I think you just mean that you wish no harm on animals and that the people that do horrible things meet their own match!!! Cus if they came back as an animal and was beaten..... then it would still be a bad thing if ya know what I mean!!! We want animal abuse to stop and not to continue!! Ya you saw that woman dragging the chi at Pppch fest!!! it was horrible other people made comments to!!


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## plenty pets 20

Not sure at what stage this is at, but sounds like the dog needs to be surrendered to a rescue that will know how to work on the potty, etc issues correctly. The shelters get so many dogs for this very reason, that they "cant" be potty trained. Please consider for the dogs sake, placing it in Rescue. JMO.
Edie


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## kissmyhorse

Sorry everyone, this is the first chance I've had to sit at the comp today. I have read over every post very carefully with an open mind that is focused on Roxy's best interest. I am so grateful that so many people have taken the time to show their care for my little dog and share their suggestions, advice, and well-deserved criticisms. Had I been on the other side of this post without experiencing this for myself, I'm sure I would have been just as harsh, or maybe even harsher to the OP. Through all the thoughts and comments I have been able to look at things from a new/different perspective. I've started to deconstruct Roxy's potty habits and the events around them in hopes of rearranging them in a way that leads to success. 

Before I continue, I would just like to say that I know many of you would want nothing more than to rip her from my arms right now (literally.. shes in my lap atm), but I have decided that I am going to take advantage of the canine's outstanding ability to forgive and live in the moment one last time as I reconstruct Roxy and I's relationship. Since I got her, I have put so much time and effort into her in regards to training and behavior. I have seen her come so far in every other aspect of her personality. Her confidence sky rocketed, she turned happy, spritely, and bouncy, and for being so poorly bred, she is as healthy as possible. She learned how to be a dog. In truthfulness, our relationship is not bad. Like I said, both dogs are my shadows, in the house and away. The several occasions where I have used negative punishment were a combination of me being at the end of my rope and feeling that I had tried everything else imaginable and that this was the old school way of potty training.

Now about her potty habits. Something that seems to keep ringing is that she pees where she feels secure (i.e. the bed, or bedroom) and when I can not see her. All this time I fully believed she was doing this to be defiant, to claim territory (she is dominant over my other dog, who happens to be an 80 lb boxer/pitbull/lab rescue), or to show her disapproval for me leaving. I NOW SEE that these potty habits have been caused by me becoming angry at her for using the bathroom, so she does it in safe places when I can't see her. I think this can be resolved! (at least for the most part, and that's completely acceptable to me) This is what is going to change as of today. Please let me know if you think these are good/bad/needs adjusting ideas! 

-First, if she's out of her crate, she's leashed to me.
-She will be let outside more frequently (I need some help with this though. She doesn't like when I watch her so I need to hide and peer out the window. However part of my porch isn't viewable through the window and that's where she likes to go. So my question is should I be trying to see her to give her treats when she does her business? Even if that means me standing outside and making her uncomfortable? Or should I just give her a treat as she comes inside, although I may not know if she has pottied?)
-Her indoor potty box will be changed back to the larger one, which she prefers. I had gotten a smaller one as a convenience to me, but clearly I have been doing too many ME things. 
-I am going to work on our relationship and her trust towards me. I know that positive reinforcement trick training is good for this (Roxy knows sit, down, and spin, but I want to teach her a few more) along with walks, but what else can I do to build trust and confidence for the both of us?
-I am unsure whether or not I should let her sleep in the bed again or if I should keep her in her crate. I really am not a fan of the crate which is why it has taken this long for it to be implemented. Roxy doesn't seem to really mind it though. When I first brought it out, it was associated with lots of treats and praise. Now she will go in it even when she doesn't have to just to sleep because she's not allowed free access to the bed. So, keep the crate, or let her in the bed to gain a feeling of belonging/love/confidence?

I know this is a really long post. I'll end by thanking everyone again for showing their support (good or bad) for myself and Roxy. When I started this thread I knew we were in trouble and needed harsh help. That is why I decided to write as I was in a dark, almost frantic state of mind. I felt that if I exposed every weakness, I may possibly find solutions to the problems. I knew the backlash I would receive, but I accepted it - and still do - as long as I felt there was a possibility of finding a resolution. So far, I do not regret posting in the least and am excited to implement some of the new things I have already learned. I am 200% committed to this process and to Roxy. Please keep the advice coming! I can't tell you all how appreciative Roxy and I are!!!


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## eiksaa

I think if you hide while she is going potty (if that's what she needs to go) but appear right after she's done with a lot of treats, praise and love she will finally make the connection that potty around you is not such a bad thing after all.

I would say let her sleep in the crate. Any further peeing on the bed is only going to frustrate you more and put her a few steps back in her potty training. Set her up for success. There are many, many ways of expressing love and I do not think she needs to sleep in your bed for you to do that.


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## StevieB

Do you ever take her on walks? I know a regular walk in the morning would help get her on a schedule, plus would give you the opportunity to give her treats when she potties and help her learn its ok to potty in front of you. Plus about a dozen other positive things that will come out of taking her on walks. I would have her sleep in her crate until you get this under control. Put her in the crate when you're in the shower, when you leave for short periods, etc. Set her up for success not failure. You need to reduce or eliminate the opportunities for her to have "accidents". Basically she should never be out of your sight. Best of luck to you. Please commit to Roxy that you will not spank her or the other stuff anymore. It does no good. If you do not have the time or the patience to get her potty issues under control then the right thing to do is surrender her to a rescue. Best of luck to you!


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## casa verde maltese

Please do let us know how it goes!


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## michellerobison

StevieB said:


> Do you ever take her on walks? I know a regular walk in the morning would help get her on a schedule, plus would give you the opportunity to give her treats when she potties and help her learn its ok to potty in front of you. Plus about a dozen other positive things that will come out of taking her on walks. I would have her sleep in her crate until you get this under control. Put her in the crate when you're in the shower, when you leave for short periods, etc. Set her up for success not failure. You need to reduce or eliminate the opportunities for her to have "accidents". Basically she should never be out of your sight. Best of luck to you. Please commit to Roxy that you will not spank her or the other stuff anymore. It does no good. If you do not have the time or the patience to get her potty issues under control then the right thing to do is surrender her to a rescue. Best of luck to you!


Walkies is a good way to bond... that will help her,it's a good start to the way to recovery for both of you.


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## chicklet and simba

I can't really speak about the potty training because I am in the middle of dual training my dog. Just today he used the pad which made me a really proud mom but we've had our share of him missing it and continually going on the same spot RIGHT NEXT to the pad. But he's good about using the "facilities" outdoors so I can't really be mad... It's just more work on my part cos then I have to take him (I live on the top floor of a condo building).

About the crate/bed dilemma, what I have found helpful was elevate the crate at bed level in the beginning (mine was on a table next to me - luckily these babies are small). It worked for Simba when I first got him but now he has a play pen (those soft side ones that has a zippered top, it's like a crate really but bigger) next to my bed (floor level). I just feel like he felt like he belonged when he was up there, yet enforcing the boundary that the bed is for humans and the crate is for fluffs. It was just not doable for me to have him sleep in the same bed as me so I figured I need to get him used to sleeping in his own space. We also tried where he was sleeping outside (of my bedroom - so the hallway) which I think he didn't really mind, but I did - I felt better when I can see him sleeping... so that was the compromise. I am not saying this is the way it should be but this is the way that worked for me and Simba. I hope things work with you too.

Take baby steps... I know you have a lot you want to accomplish - potty training, fixing the relationship, learning tricks... but try to fix them slowly with a lot of patience. I think if you stick to this new positive training method that you will use on your baby, the relationship will be repaired. Good Luck to you and to Roxy!


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## Bailey&Me

eiksaa said:


> I think if you hide while she is going potty (if that's what she needs to go) but appear right after she's done with a lot of treats, praise and love she will finally make the connection that potty around you is not such a bad thing after all.
> 
> I would say let her sleep in the crate. Any further peeing on the bed is only going to frustrate you more and put her a few steps back in her potty training. Set her up for success. There are many, many ways of expressing love and I do not think she needs to sleep in your bed for you to do that.





StevieB said:


> Do you ever take her on walks? I know a regular walk in the morning would help get her on a schedule, plus would give you the opportunity to give her treats when she potties and help her learn its ok to potty in front of you. Plus about a dozen other positive things that will come out of taking her on walks. I would have her sleep in her crate until you get this under control. Put her in the crate when you're in the shower, when you leave for short periods, etc. Set her up for success not failure. You need to reduce or eliminate the opportunities for her to have "accidents". Basically she should never be out of your sight. Best of luck to you. Please commit to Roxy that you will not spank her or the other stuff anymore. It does no good. If you do not have the time or the patience to get her potty issues under control then the right thing to do is surrender her to a rescue. Best of luck to you!


I agree with letting her sleep in a crate for now - you don't NEED to have your dog sleep in the bed with you to build a strong bond. My Emma has always slept in her crate or pen at night and we do just fine :thumbsup: I would just make the bed off limits with her for now until she is more reliably trained. 

I also agree with starting regular walks, if you don't do them already. I find that the scent of other dogs, etc out on the street encourage them to potty. My Emma (7 month old puppy) has been trained to use potty pads but when I started taking her on walks with Bailey and I, she just learned on her own to potty outside too. You have a bigger dog so I am assuming you do take him on walks? Taking Roxy along would be a great idea - especially since she can take cues from your other dog about pottying outside. 

I never used a crate for potty training. I know many members have and it has worked well for them. If you find the crate training method isn't working for you, you could try using a play pen. Start with lining the majority of the play pen with puppy pads so MOST of the area could be used for pottying. Then as she "gets it" you could start making that area smaller. This is what I did with Emma. Now she is using one puppy pad that's in a holder. Just sharing what worked for me, in case you needed other ideas. There are tons of great threads here on potty training. I would suggest reading through them, especially the pinned ones. Then figure out a plan that you think will work best for you and Roxy. Then, STICK WITH IT. Write down a schedule if that helps you and follow it strictly. Be consistent and please do not punish her for accidents. If you catch her in the middle or immediately after, you could say a firm but kind, "uh-huh" and then take her to the appropriate potty area, and say "Potty on the pad". When she uses that area, say "Good girl, potty on the pad" and treat and praise like crazy. Treat her as a new puppy and be patient. Share your experiences with us, and we will help you along the way.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

Bridgett, I am so happy that you are willing to listen to everyone's feedback. Good for you! 

Will you please take Roxy to the vet ... just to make sure she is okay? I do think that is important.

Also, please share Roxy's pictures. She is such a beautiful little doll ... she is so precious. :wub::wub: (I saw her pictures on your other threads in 2010) All of Roxy's aunties, I am sure, would love to see her pictures. I could have transferred the link here (I think I just learned how to add links from other posts) but, she is your fluff baby. 

You already have some great tips on how to win back Roxy's trust in you. It will take time ... but, you must stay committed to make the changes. I especially like all the tips Nida just shared with you. 

Thank you for answering all of the questions I asked you in prior posts. :tender: And, please give Roxy a gentle hug and kiss from her Auntie Marie.:wub:


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## mss

As Marie has just emphasized -- Please have Roxy checked by a vet to make sure that there is not a medical issue behind all this! rayer:


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## Lacie's Mom

Bridget -- this sounds very positive. One thought I had was that "dual" potty training (outdoors and pee pads) is often very confusing to a fluff. When you're having so many problems with this issue, it's usually best to choose one or the other so that the fluff has a very *clear understanding* of where you want her to do her potties. After she has been completely and thoroughly trained to go in the same location, and is consistently doing her potties in the correct place, you can SOMETIMES (for some fluffs) add a second place to potty - either outdoor or pee pads but I really caution against trying to do both at the same time.

Also, if you choose to train her to potty outside, it's probably best if you go with her, but not hover over her. Do something in the yard away from her but where you can see her (but she doesn't think you're watching). Remember, right now, she's probably a little frightened to go potty in front of you -- no matter if she's doing it where you want her to.

When a fluff starts misbehaving, we humans need to take a step back and figure how why. After all, it's our job and responsibility to train them. And it's not always easy to get into their heads and figure these things out. Sounds like you're on the right track. Good luck and please let us know how it's going. We're here to help and support you.


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## Neetaz

Bridget & Roxy,

Best of luck to you both, it can be frustrating to train each other and build the bond between you. I was so excited on this past Sunday morning, Bella let me sleep in until 8:00 a.m. before she whined and wanted out to go #2 (she will pee on her puppy pad, but not go Poo-she trained herself to do this "pround mama"). This was the first time I slept pass 6:00 a.m. since I brought her home.

I feel you can do it, stay on the forum and ask questions, get feedback, or just post pics of your pretty girl and you will find things will get better.


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## Malt Shoppe

Bridget, this is very sad. I understand your frustration but you must learn to think like a dog, not a human. Roxy is a DOG - she doesn't understand your thoughts.

By this time, she's so confused, she doesn't know what you want of her. Unless you catch a dog doing her business, and give an understanding sign that is wrong, she doesn't know why you are punishing her.

In none of your writings have you indicated you researched how to potty train Roxy. THIS IS A MUST. It would help you, calm you and in turn help Roxy understand what you want. What you have been doing for the past 2-3 years hasn't worked, time to move on.

The book, Scaredy Dog by Ali Brown is very good and explains how the dog thinks. Mine is downloaded on my Kindle, very reasonably priced. It's a great book, will help YOU understand. One mention was to take the dog on long walks. You really need to educate yourself on how to change this behavior. It's going to take education and patience. Get a clicker, a box of Cheerios, a book, read it and begin doing things right.

I adopted a 7.5 yr old female Maltese that thought the area rug was a big pp pad. She learned on her own with the help of my other Maltese, to go to the pp pad in the bathroom, within a week. Another adopted 5 yr old female, also never potty trained, became religious about doing her business outside with the help of Cheerios. When she and Blaze did their business, they were given a Cheerio immediately and lots of praise. They picked up on that almost instantly. She got to where she'd squeeze out a quarter's worth of tinkle and look at me proudly....praise, praise, praise...and a cheerio. NEVER ever give negative punishment, it always has to be POSITIVE reinforcement. They want to please you and will quickly learn what it takes to please you if you handle it right.

PLEASE remove her from the tight constraints of a tiny crate, you will drive her out of her mind, literally. Get an x-pen or enclose her behind a gate in a bathroom or small area while you are not at home. My dogs have always been enclosed in a large bathroom when I'm not home; they do not feel secure with the run of the house - read that, didn't make it up. My two first Maltese used to parade into the bathroom on their own when they sensed I was getting ready to leave. They had a bed, water, kibble, toys pp pads in there for their comfort. It was 'their room'. 

One last thing, all my Maltese have been well adjusted to going outside or on the indoor pp pad as needed, no problem. All this takes PATIENCE. Without that, you will get no where. Stop tomorrow and get a book on training your dog, read it; that is the beginning of turning this around.


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## lynda

educ8m said:


> Bridgette,
> Although I agree you have made many mistakes with Roxy, I must say you have shown great courage in coming to this forum and posting about your issues with blunt honesty. To some of my fellow SMers, I think you crossed the line telling a 22 year old young woman that she should never have children! People do the best they can with the knowledge they have at the time. This is our chance to help educate Bridgette. If we drive her away with our outrage and pass judgement about her ability to raise children, we aren't helping Roxy or Bridgett.
> 
> Now Bridgette, as you freely admit, you have made many mistakes. Right now, you must make a commitment to NEVER hit Roxy again and commit to doing whatever it takes to train her CORRECTLY and not confine her to a small crate. If you are willing to do that and actually listen to our advice, I think you will find that many of us will stand by you as you learn. If not, then you will quietly slink away and we may never hear from you again and Roxy's life will not improve.
> 
> First, take a good look at your life. I am sure you love Roxy, but some dogs are MUCH harder to train than others. When an inexperienced owner with no knowledge of training gets a hard to train dog, it's rarely good. Many times these are the dogs given up. Is it better for Roxy if you make the ultimate sacrifice and give her to Maltese Rescue? If you are not ready for that step then let's get started.
> 
> You must take her to the vet for a complete physical including blood work and a urinalysis. Talk to the vet about the issues you are having.
> 
> Next, you need to do some research and find a GOOD training class near you. Hopefully you can find one that teaches clicker training. You need to learn the basics of how dogs learn. Most Petsmart or Petco stores are NOT the place to get good training. Ask your vet for suggestions, do Internet searches. Once you are in class, ask the trainer about a few private lessons to just focus on Roxy's potty issues.
> 
> Read, read, read. Educate yourself.
> 
> Yes, this will cost money. Six weeks of group training in my area runs anywhere from $80-$200. Vets cost money. A vet visit with bloodwork and a urinalysis would be about $250 for me. At 22, I don't know if you have the funds for this. If not, then again, having a hard to train dog is not going to work for you and is crueler to Roxy than turning her over to Rescue.
> 
> So, Bridgette, what are you willing to do?





:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


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## kissmyhorse

The support is so appreciated you guys!!! There seems to be some disagreement about dual potty training though. The last thing I want to do is confuse Roxy more, but I also want to set her up for success. Although she does potty outside, she doesn't ask to go out. I trained my other dog to ring a bell when he wants to go out, should I try this with Roxy? My fear if I only use the outdoor method is that she will back track while I'm not home or at night once she's no longer crated. Definitely do not want that. What do you guys think?

Oh, and I will get some more recent pics of both the kids up <3


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

kissmyhorse said:


> The support is so appreciated you guys!!! There seems to be some disagreement about dual potty training though. The last thing I want to do is confuse Roxy more, but I also want to set her up for success. Although she does potty outside, she doesn't ask to go out. I trained my other dog to ring a bell when he wants to go out, should I try this with Roxy? My fear if I only use the outdoor method is that she will back track while I'm not home or at night once she's no longer crated. Definitely do not want that. What do you guys think?
> 
> Oh, and I will get some more recent pics of both the kids up <3


Bridgette ... I can only share our personal experiences with Snowball.

Snowball came home with us when he was fifteen weeks old. And, from day one ... he used the pee pads. It was amazing! 

The only time he had an accident ... and, it was only once, about five years ago, he was sick and had a little loose BM ... and, soiled one of our blankets on the bed. That was the only time.

We have a three level townhome ... so, we have always had pee pads (I still call them pee pads, but, he does his BM's on the pads, too.)

When we were able to walk Snowball outside (after his Parvo shots) he still would wait until he got home to pee or do a poopie. However ... within a short amount of time that changed.

There was a cute little toy poodle by the name of Paris who had a crush on Snowball. When she would see him walking up the sidewalk ... she would go bananas! :HistericalSmiley: Snowball, however, wasn't interested. :HistericalSmiley: In fact, when we would be be about three houses away from where Paris lived ... Snowball would sit on the sidewalk and not budge! :HistericalSmiley: And, then one day ...

Snowball bumped into Paris and saw her pee in the front yard, very close to the sidewalk. After that, and when Paris wasn't nearby, Snowball stopped near her house and proceeded to enjoy his first pee outside! (maybe he was trying to tell Paris something ... :HistericalSmiley After that, he automatically learned to *mark his own territories*. And, it wasn't long after that when he started doing poopies outside, too. 

For my husband and I ... and, for Snowball, too ... we are very happy that we don't have to take him outside everytime Snowball has to go. I am especially grateful because I have MS and often find it difficult to get around fast ... and, living in a three level home doesn't help. And, in the winter and bad weather, Snowball does not have to be subjected to going outside in the freezing weather ... I am talking about ice and snow. Snowball is six pounds and does not like the snow like many Malts. 

As for you, Bridgette ... I am thinking that if you are working and still going to school, and if Roxy is alone for a considerable amount of time ... potty training inside with pads might be better. But, that is just my opinion. You will receive a lot of good advice here from other members. 

I do think that whatever you decide to do ... that it is crucial to make sure with all of the accidents Roxy has had ... that you make sure she hasn't marked a location inside of your home. You did mention what products you used and I think the Resolve is great ... but, there might be a possibility that it wasn't strong enough for some areas. If there are any locations that are marked ... of course, she will be confused. Does that make sense?

Bridgette, one thing you haven't responded to yet is if you are making an appointment with the vet. You really need to rule out that Roxy does not have any medical issues that need to be taken care of first.

I look forward to seeing pictures of Roxy and her brother!:tender:


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## 4furkidsmom

You've been given great advice. The most important aspect to implementing a good strategy for re-training her is that you need to rebuild her trust in you. You broke her trust in you when you resorted to physical punishment. I have rescues and I know from my experience that their trust of me allows me to be successful in any area of training and grooming. Their trust helps them overcome fear. At this point Roxie must be full of anxiety and fear. I also want to mention that my maltese all sleep with me. They have a doggie ramp to go up and down during the night should they have to potty. Now, my four pound female rescue is afraid of using the ramp, so I always make sure to potty her right before we go to sleep. If she does not potty, I make a point during the night to get up and take her to her pad. She always goes. Your little Roxie may have started the peeing in bed for this very reason...she had to pee. For a smaller dog to hold their urine for more than 7 hours I think is difficult. And I really am afraid to have them hold it longer because of the fear of urinary track infection. Dogs get it just as we do from holding their pee too long. If you are unsuccessful in your endeavor to potty train her, please love her enough to give her up to a rescue group. A new person who she can trust will be able to successfully potty train her in time. I am confident of that. I know I could.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

4furkidsmom said:


> You've been given great advice. The most important aspect to implementing a good strategy for re-training her is that you need to rebuild her trust in you. You broke her trust in you when you resorted to physical punishment. I have rescues and I know from my experience that their trust of me allows me to be successful in any area of training and grooming. Their trust helps them overcome fear. At this point Roxie must be full of anxiety and fear. I also want to mention that my maltese all sleep with me. They have a doggie ramp to go up and down during the night should they have to potty. Now, my four pound female rescue is afraid of using the ramp, so I always make sure to potty her right before we go to sleep. If she does not potty, I make a point during the night to get up and take her to her pad. She always goes. Your little Roxie may have started the peeing in bed for this very reason...she had to pee. For a smaller dog to hold their urine for more than 7 hours I think is difficult. And I really am afraid to have them hold it longer because of the fear of urinary track infection. Dogs get it just as we do from holding their pee too long. If you are unsuccessful in your endeavor to potty train her, please love her enough to give her up to a rescue group. A new person who she can trust will be able to successfully potty train her in time. I am confident of that. I know I could.


Cornelia ... I am glad you brought up that it's not the best thing for smaller dogs to hold their urine for long periods of time. That is another reason why I am so glad Snowball can go on the pee pads when he needs to ... and, he does go several times a day. 

I don't ever recall anyone bringing up the fact that dogs, like us, can get urinary track infections from holding it too long. So, thank you.

And, bless you for working with rescues. You are yet another Earth Angel.:tender:


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## 4furkidsmom

Marie, like Snowball, mine use their pads throughout the day whenever they need to go, and a couple go potty during the middle of the night. All six of mine go outside as well. With six furkids, I do end up doing a load of "pee pads" a day. Rather than buy the disposable ones I buy the baby pads made for cribs, and or the senior citizen incontinent bed pads. They last forever! Using potty pads has been an invaluable tool for potty training my rescues. Besides not having to worry about urinary tract infections, the pads are a big plus when the weather is miserable outside, and they won't go out, and late at night when I'm afraid to go out...rattlesnakes, scorpions...all that wild life that comes out at night!


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## Susabell

Never use punishment or hitting! She doesn't know what she did wrong 

I strongly encourage you to bring in a private trainer that uses positive reinforcement methods. 

My Callie is deaf so *I* had to learn how to communicate with her when she did something good. Saying "good girl" wasn't going to work. So when she potties in the right spot I wait until she looks at me and I clap my hands and give a big smile. She then gets a treat.

This has worked so well, that often she starts coming over for the treat before she is even done :wub:

What I am saying is *YOU* need to learn the correct way to train her. And an experienced dog trainer will help 1000%, I promise

I also suggest getting an Iris pen. It is big enough she can move around but is confined to a certain area. 

So in essence the problem isn't the dog, the problem is you. She doesn't know what you want from her.


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## Matilda's mommy

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> Bridgette ... I can only share our personal experiences with Snowball.
> 
> Snowball came home with us when he was fifteen weeks old. And, from day one ... he used the pee pads. It was amazing!
> 
> The only time he had an accident ... and, it was only once, about five years ago, he was sick and had a little loose BM ... and, soiled one of our blankets on the bed. That was the only time.
> 
> We have a three level townhome ... so, we have always had pee pads (I still call them pee pads, but, he does his BM's on the pads, too.)
> 
> When we were able to walk Snowball outside (after his Parvo shots) he still would wait until he got home to pee or do a poopie. However ... within a short amount of time that changed.
> 
> There was a cute little toy poodle by the name of Paris who had a crush on Snowball. When she would see him walking up the sidewalk ... she would go bananas! :HistericalSmiley: Snowball, however, wasn't interested. :HistericalSmiley: In fact, when we would be be about three houses away from where Paris lived ... Snowball would sit on the sidewalk and not budge! :HistericalSmiley: And, then one day ...
> 
> Snowball bumped into Paris and saw her pee in the front yard, very close to the sidewalk. After that, and when Paris wasn't nearby, Snowball stopped near her house and proceeded to enjoy his first pee outside! (maybe he was trying to tell Paris something ... :HistericalSmiley After that, he automatically learned to *mark his own territories*. And, it wasn't long after that when he started doing poopies outside, too.
> 
> For my husband and I ... and, for Snowball, too ... we are very happy that we don't have to take him outside everytime Snowball has to go. I am especially grateful because I have MS and often find it difficult to get around fast ... and, living in a three level home doesn't help. And, in the winter and bad weather, Snowball does not have to be subjected to going outside in the freezing weather ... I am talking about ice and snow. Snowball is six pounds and does not like the snow like many Malts.
> 
> As for you, Bridgette ... I am thinking that if you are working and still going to school, and if Roxy is alone for a considerable amount of time ... potty training inside with pads might be better. But, that is just my opinion. You will receive a lot of good advice here from other members.
> 
> I do think that whatever you decide to do ... that it is crucial to make sure with all of the accidents Roxy has had ... that you make sure she hasn't marked a location inside of your home. You did mention what products you used and I think the Resolve is great ... but, there might be a possibility that it wasn't strong enough for some areas. If there are any locations that are marked ... of course, she will be confused. Does that make sense?
> 
> Bridgette, one thing you haven't responded to yet is if you are making an appointment with the vet. You really need to rule out that Roxy does not have any medical issues that need to be taken care of first.
> 
> I look forward to seeing pictures of Roxy and her brother!:tender:


 
:goodpost:


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## KAG

Hey, here's an idea:


Four Paws Small Pink Fancy Pants for Dogs - Dog - Pet Supplies


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## kissmyhorse

Quick update! I have been taking Roxy outside and sitting on the porch for 15 minute time frames. She has gone 3 times and gotten lots of treats loves and kisses each time. Where I'm having difficulty is when I'm sitting, she wants to be on my lap or getting attention from me in some way. Since I want her to go potty, I haven't been giving her attention, except for when she goes. I want to encourage her to pay attention to going potty, rather than me. But I feel that if I get up and take her to her usual potty spot or stand by it, it will make her nervous. I wouldn't mind this, except for I know sometimes she has to go or should go, but with her one track mind, wont go. Then it's time for us to go back in and she hasn't gone. How can I start to encourage her to go quicker/more reliably? I know this will take time


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## kissmyhorse

Oh and to fill in some spaces about her medical history - 

Shortly after I first got her I wanted to have her spayed. The surgery ended up being put off for over a year for countless tests to determine what was wrong with her liver functions and what else, if anything, was affected. Roxy has had so many blood panels and tests on all her systems it's not even funny. The final cumulating procedure was a spay and liver biopsy surgery. The biopsy showed that her liver has abnormal cells, that it functions a little bit differently but is not affecting her at this time, and that there is really nothing that can be done for it. I attribute this to poor breeding along with her allergies as I am fairly certain she was a puppy mill escapee. So in essence, there has never been any indication for a UTI, stones, or other bladder or kidney issues. However, for the entire 3 years I've had her, I have tried to get Roxy to drink/urinate more. She usually pee's 3x a day, but twice is not uncommon. Her urine is fairly dark and I would prefer it to be more diluted. Her drinking more I feel would also help with the issue of her actually going when we go outside (see post above). Oh and btw, the only way I was able to afford all the tests, medications, treatments, and surgery was because Roxy has Pet Plan health insurance. I know some don't believe in it and I even took it off my other dog, but Roxy will have it for quite some time to come and I feel that it is something anyone with a pure breed of unknown background should at least think about


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## Furbabies mom

I think that she should be on your lap, and receive lots of kisses from you. It's another way for her to trust you again.


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## kissmyhorse

..but then how do I get her to go potty?:huh: She will sit on my lap for hours, literally.


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## mss

Sorry for harping on the vet exam question, but I think it's important to consider WHEN her last exam was, not how many exams she has had in the three years you've had her. Things can change. You might consider whether the potty issues have developed after the last time any tests of kidney and bladder health.

When my undersized schnauzer was in the last stages of liver failure, an ultrasound also showed a bladder stone which I was told and read was probably related to the liver disorder.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

mss said:


> Sorry for harping on the vet exam question, but I think it's important to consider WHEN her last exam was, not how many exams she has had in the three years you've had her. Things can change. You might consider whether the potty issues have developed after the last time any tests of kidney and bladder health.
> 
> When my undersized schnauzer was in the last stages of liver failure, an ultrasound also showed a bladder stone which I was told and read was probably related to the liver disorder.


You are not harping ... I think I asked Bridgette twice about making an appointment with a vet.

That's why I haven't responded further to any potty issues. We can give feedback and make suggestions ... however, I think professionals in the fields of veterinary medicine and certified veterinary behavior medicine need to be consulted. 

We can be here to support and share our personal experiences.


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## Chardy

Bladder stones can cause this to happen.


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## Deborah

What Roxy is doing really points to a urinary tract infection. She is showing all the signs of that infection so she really needs to see a vet. Better safe than sorry.
Rylee does not like me to watch when she goes potty. I am able to see what she is up to through a sliding glass door. I would suggest you take her to her potty spot go inside and watch her. As soon as she performs cuddle her and give praise and treats.


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## poochie2

My malt had two urinary tract infections and she was going all over the place. Take that poor girl to get checked by a vet.
I hope you have completely stopped rubbing her face in poop and hitting her. That is so so so sad. Breaks my heart :crying 2:


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## Matilda's mommy

Matilda would sit on my lap all day if I let her, sometimes she won't go out to potty without me, frustrates me at times but I would never hold back love from her, I think you should let her sit on your lap, she might feel your frustration and that might be why she doesn't go at times, when I get stressed Matilda picks up on that sometimes she stays away from me just cuz I'm stressed, she really is sensitive of how I feel from day to day. I do hope things get better for you. Please think about letting her sit on your lap.


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## kissmyhorse

It's not that she doesn't sit on my lap, that's her favorite place to be. But when I am sitting outside with her trying to get her to go potty, she wants to be snuggling then too - instead of going potty. 

We had a rough day with training today. Went outside for 15 min intervals and I sat quietly trying not to distract. I gave a few gentle "go potty" commands but I'm hesitant to say it too much for it may lose it's purpose. Anyways, she didn't pee or poo all day and I began to think something was up. Yep. I had removed some of the bedding in her crate as suggested so there was just a towel in there. It was soaked. So I took it out and cleaned her crate with a bleach solution. When it was completely dry I let her back in it with food and water, but hadn't put a new towel in yet. Come back a few mins later and wudda you know she was walking in pee. So she had to have a bath (which she pooped in.. shes not very fond of the bath and always poops in it) at 10pm. So far our progress is about zero steps forward and six steps back. :smilie_tischkante:

Roxy's last big vet test was about a year ago. I'm going to call the vet tomorrow to ask if I can bring in a urine sample for them to test or ask if she should have a blood panel done. I really appreciate the support from you guys so much. It is helps greatly to know there is a light at the end of this tunnel. Even though I feel like I'm stumbling down a dark alley while blindfolded, at least we're putting one foot in front of the other.


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## eiksaa

Hmm, I guess you could try the pen route. A pen completely lined with pads so there is 0% chance of an accident. 

Just praise and treat when she goes. I have a feeling the crate method probably is not gonna work for her. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

kissmyhorse said:


> It's not that she doesn't sit on my lap, that's her favorite place to be. But when I am sitting outside with her trying to get her to go potty, she wants to be snuggling then too - instead of going potty.
> 
> We had a rough day with training today. Went outside for 15 min intervals and I sat quietly trying not to distract. I gave a few gentle "go potty" commands but I'm hesitant to say it too much for it may lose it's purpose. Anyways, she didn't pee or poo all day and I began to think something was up. Yep. I had removed some of the bedding in her crate as suggested so there was just a towel in there. It was soaked. So I took it out and cleaned her crate with a bleach solution. When it was completely dry I let her back in it with food and water, but hadn't put a new towel in yet. Come back a few mins later and wudda you know she was walking in pee. So she had to have a bath (which she pooped in.. shes not very fond of the bath and always poops in it) at 10pm. So far our progress is about zero steps forward and six steps back. :smilie_tischkante:
> 
> Roxy's last big vet test was about a year ago. I'm going to call the vet tomorrow to ask if I can bring in a urine sample for them to test or ask if she should have a blood panel done. I really appreciate the support from you guys so much. It is helps greatly to know there is a light at the end of this tunnel. Even though I feel like I'm stumbling down a dark alley while blindfolded, at least we're putting one foot in front of the other.


Bridgette ... I am so happy to hear you are going to call the vet tomorrow. I think they will ask you to bring Roxy in for a complete check-up.

Please be honest with them with how you have been feeling. If you are, I think the vet, like us, will reach out and try and help you as much as possible. 

Please let us know what the vet says. 

Now, where are those pictures of your fluffs? :Waiting:


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## kissmyhorse

...just spent an hour finding some pics to attach, but I couldn't post because I'm missing a token of some sort lol


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## maggieh

kissmyhorse said:


> ...just spent an hour finding some pics to attach, but I couldn't post because I'm missing a token of some sort lol


The easiest way to post photos is to upload them to Photobucket (or similar) and paste in the IMG code. 

Re behavior - Whole Dog Journal last month had an article on how to housetrain a dog (typically a mill dog but any dog) who has become accustomed to sitting in her own urine - I think you have to be a subscriber to access the online article but it might be well worth a look for Roxy.


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## Bailey&Me

eiksaa said:


> Hmm, I guess you could try the pen route. A pen completely lined with pads so there is 0% chance of an accident.
> 
> Just praise and treat when she goes. I have a feeling the crate method probably is not gonna work for her.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I agree that the pen method might work better for her since she is used to peeing and pooping in her crate. You could line the entire pen with pads but leave one corner for a small bed so she doesn't have to lay down on a puppy pad. Like I said, that is what I did with Emma when she was a baby. 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## michellerobison

Amber gets UTI's easily, not sure why. She won't show any symptoms other than frequent urination... usually there's no smell or colour to urine,so sometimes you can't tell they have a UTI ...
One thing I have to do is make sure I keep the fur clipped short on her "rosebud" that's what we call it. If the fur grows long, it urine will wick back into it.. We also wipe her after peeing, we do that will all of them to keep them clean...


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## educ8m

Bridgette, I hope you followed through today and called the vet. Good for you if you did! :chili: That is the first thing most of us suggested when you first posted on Monday. It would probably be a good idea to have a complete checkup instead of just dropping off a urine sample. It would give you a chance to talk to the vet and explain everything that has been going on. 

Good luck, and let us know what you find out as soon as possible.


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## SammieMom

If you have the patience, and are home enough to where she is not crated all day because she pees everywhere you might be able to turn this around. I am not sure you can. Depends on lifestyle. Are you away from home a lot of time? She going to need someone that is home to work with her. At 22 I would have failed as a Maltese owner, I admit it, because I worked and went out and did stuff on weekends. Typical stuff. 

FIRST OFF, I BET SHE CAN SMELL HER PEE SCENTS ON THE MATTRESS after 3 years. If so you might need to replace it. And use Nature's Miracle on any carpet spots, but good luck finding them all now. I would have it cleaned. The 3 yrs of scents are going to be an issue IMO. 
I don't how she is about sleeping at night in a crate, but you have to remove her from all beds till she is trained IMO. This could be very hard after this long time sleeping with you, and she prob will pitch a fit when the lights go out. Hopefully in time she will sleep in her crate. Maybe if you get the training down, and she sees it's a positive thing, she might stop the bed wetting. Then you can let her sleep with you as a reward, but I don't trust that mattress odor (you might not notice it) as temptation for her. Your going to have to work the night crating out. Might be hard if you don't have time to work with her daily and are not home a lot.

I am no expert, but I have trained two Maltese, and not each one trains in same way, that is known fact here. But I'll share some things that helped me and maybe you can gleam something from it. I think it takes your participation. She doesn't want you watching her :blush: because she KNOWS going potty is a confusing and BAD thing for her and there are repercussions. Could be causing her to pee from nerves more than normal too. It's become a syndrome at this point IMO. I would not be leashing a dog to me all time. If I can't give my time to be with her (while I'm training) then I would use a PEN, not a small crate. I would look it as a new puppy I'm training. It's same thing IMO, she is like a puppy that wees everywhere. I never leashed my puppy to me, I used a PEN when I couldn't be with her 100% or watch her. And it can take a year to get it all down, and some will still mark off and on. I would suggest if you have room or make room in your family area for a PEN. Target has a great baby one and many buy 6 panel IRIS panel pen on amazon. You need a wood/tile floor or buy a piece of vinyl at home depot to place over carpet/floor. This is what I used for mine cause they could see us, and play and sleep. (they have rods connecting the panels so you can make it small or larger for longer times your gone.) you can drag it around the house easily. Or get one of those mesh ones, they are great too. Take her straight to potty place when you let her out. I don't know what potty system you have, but I think disposable pads are best for reducing smells, and training. Just worked better for me. Set one in a room when your in there with her. 

I would keep my eyes on her, and be close by when she goes potty. Go WITH her on porch and close the door. May take a few trips out on porch or to her potty station, but she will do this for praise and a treat, but she will HIDE :behindsofa: (and who wouldn't) in fear of her face being pushed into her poop or a spanking. It's hard for me to even type that :smcry:but it is part of your history with her. 

If you notice her at the indoor potty place, walk slowly near her and watch her, let her know she is good girl and say treat treat or something and take her to get a treat after. I trained one this way and she would go pee and run to me for a treat after, sometimes she would fake a pee for a treat when she was younger. 
And don't turn away when she goes during a walk. Take tiny pieces of treats in pocket. break them up so not to overload her. Luckily dogs are forgiving and want to please owners, so you being around will become the norm in time and that will be a non issue. I take mine outside immediately in am and when I come home, on GRASS. Mine are trained on pads in a spare bathroom or will go outside. Since this has been going on for 3 years, you have a ton of your undoing. So I would look at this potty training as DAY ONE with her. Acting maturely and building trust.

A member says if your dog goes on floor and your mad about it, go get a big stick and hit yourself over head twice and repeat "bad Mommy, bad Mommy" because YOU weren't watching your dog....:angry:
I hope things turn around for you, but I think I read this has been going on since 2010 and I'm concerned about all the odors in the home to attract her.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

SammieMom said:


> If you have the patience, and are home enough to where she is not crated all day because she pees everywhere you might be able to turn this around. I am not sure you can. Depends on lifestyle. Are you away from home a lot of time? She going to need someone that is home to work with her. At 22 I would have failed as a Maltese owner, I admit it, because I worked and went out and did stuff on weekends. Typical stuff.
> 
> FIRST OFF, I BET SHE CAN SMELL HER PEE SCENTS ON THE MATTRESS after 3 years. If so you might need to replace it. And use Nature's Miracle on any carpet spots, but good luck finding them all now. I would have it cleaned. The 3 yrs of scents are going to be an issue IMO.
> I don't how she is about sleeping at night in a crate, but you have to remove her from all beds till she is trained IMO. This could be very hard after this long time sleeping with you, and she prob will pitch a fit when the lights go out. Hopefully in time she will sleep in her crate. Maybe if you get the training down, and she sees it's a positive thing, she might stop the bed wetting. Then you can let her sleep with you as a reward, but I don't trust that mattress odor (you might not notice it) as temptation for her. Your going to have to work the night crating out. Might be hard if you don't have time to work with her daily and are not home a lot.
> 
> I am no expert, but I have trained two Maltese, and not each one trains in same way, that is known fact here. But I'll share some things that helped me and maybe you can gleam something from it. I think it takes your participation. She doesn't want you watching her :blush: because she KNOWS going potty is a confusing and BAD thing for her and there are repercussions. Could be causing her to pee from nerves more than normal too. It's become a syndrome at this point IMO. I would not be leashing a dog to me all time. If I can't give my time to be with her (while I'm training) then I would use a PEN, not a small crate. I would look it as a new puppy I'm training. It's same thing IMO, she is like a puppy that wees everywhere. I never leashed my puppy to me, I used a PEN when I couldn't be with her 100% or watch her. And it can take a year to get it all down, and some will still mark off and on. I would suggest if you have room or make room in your family area for a PEN. Target has a great baby one and many buy 6 panel IRIS panel pen on amazon. You need a wood/tile floor or buy a piece of vinyl at home depot to place over carpet/floor. This is what I used for mine cause they could see us, and play and sleep. (they have rods connecting the panels so you can make it small or larger for longer times your gone.) you can drag it around the house easily. Or get one of those mesh ones, they are great too. Take her straight to potty place when you let her out. I don't know what potty system you have, but I think disposable pads are best for reducing smells, and training. Just worked better for me. Set one in a room when your in there with her.
> 
> I would keep my eyes on her, and be close by when she goes potty. Go WITH her on porch and close the door. May take a few trips out on porch or to her potty station, but she will do this for praise and a treat, but she will HIDE :behindsofa: (and who wouldn't) in fear of her face being pushed into her poop or a spanking. It's hard for me to even type that :smcry:but it is part of your history with her.
> 
> If you notice her at the indoor potty place, walk slowly near her and watch her, let her know she is good girl and say treat treat or something and take her to get a treat after. I trained one this way and she would go pee and run to me for a treat after, sometimes she would fake a pee for a treat when she was younger.
> And don't turn away when she goes during a walk. Take tiny pieces of treats in pocket. break them up so not to overload her. Luckily dogs are forgiving and want to please owners, so you being around will become the norm in time and that will be a non issue. I take mine outside immediately in am and when I come home, on GRASS. Mine are trained on pads in a spare bathroom or will go outside. Since this has been going on for 3 years, you have a ton of your undoing. So I would look at this potty training as DAY ONE with her. Acting maturely and building trust.
> 
> A member says if your dog goes on floor and your mad about it, go get a big stick and hit yourself over head twice and repeat "bad Mommy, bad Mommy" because YOU weren't watching your dog....:angry:
> I hope things turn around for you, but I think I read this has been going on since 2010 and I'm concerned about all the odors in the home to attract her.


Better than a good post, Kandis! Great post, thoughts, and advice!:goodpost::goodpost:

Bridgette ... I hope you made an appointment with the vet.


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## kissmyhorse

Ok so the crating isn't working. We went out this morning and I brought treats and such and waited for her to potty but nothing happened. So I put her back into her crate, no blankie, and had to leave. I left the barn early because I wanted to get home to get her outside hoping she hadn't gone in her bare crate again. Well she did and for the second time in just over 12 hours was covered in pee. She hates baths, but I seriously can't just not wash the pee off her :yucky: Anyways, what I've done now is put a wee pad in her crate (I'm thinking that even after being cleaned it will still smell enough of pee to her) and created a small pen outside it. Since my room is carpet, I laid down a vinyl piece and put a towel over that for the pen floor. The pen is about double the size of the crate, so she now has a place to sleep, eat, and then the crate for a potty. I'm really hoping to make some progress here. Do you think I should even keep taking her outside? I don't want to confuse her, but I'd like her to go outside some of the time. 

On another note, I wasn't aware that my vets office closes early on Saturdays (I guess I'm always there during the week) so I missed their working hours - yea you can kick me now :smilie_tischkante: I know their week day hours though so we will be making an appointment asap next week. Maybe she does have a bladder infection. I mean, seriously, I can't imagine anyone being okay with sitting in their own pee. But then I'd think she would want to go more than twice a day if she had an infection and be drinking more water - Idk, hopefully the vet knows where to start. Since her crate was bare this morning, I was able to get a good amount of urine and put it in a zip lock. I don't know if it has a shelf life, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to save it.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

I would get a fresh urine sample right before her vet appointment next week. 

And, as for the vet appointment ... I would tell the vet office that Roxy needs to be seen right away. I would not suggest you do this unless I felt it was urgent. UTI's left untreated can become serious. They should fit you in right away.

Bridgette, I think I wrote on another post that you have to decide one way or the other where you are going to train Roxy to potty right now. To try and have her do both will be confusing to her ... that's just my personal opinion though. And, I think she would do better starting off being trained to use the pads inside first. If she were a big dog, of course that would be different I guess.

You have others giving you great advice, too. The most important thing right now is to be super patient and not be mean in any way to Roxy. No yelling, no spanking, no rubbing her nose in accidents. You are young ... but, you must be committed to putting Roxy's needs first now. And, you have to understand all of this is going to take baby steps for Roxy to heal from all the damage done to her.

Please give your precious little one hugs and kisses from her Auntie Marie. :wub::wub:


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## maggieh

Bridgette, samples should only be an hour or so old; you'll need a fresh one before you go to the vet.

You also should take a look at the Whole Dog Journal article I mentioned earlier - it will be a lot of work, but might be the only solution: How to Train Your Dog to Go to the Bathroom Outside - Whole Dog Journal Article

I think you need to be a subscriber, but it may be worth it.


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## Chardy

It is best to have the vets draw a sample and then they will have to have it cultured to know which antibiotic is best. Another quick thing you can do is to test the ph of the urine with a ph strip. If it is on the low or high side of alk or acidic it would be consistent with something going on. Either infection, sturvites or maybe even oxalate stones.


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## kissmyhorse

Thanks guys, I'll throw out the urine sample. I just hate having to put her through poking and prodding. She never gives urine or blood the easy way. They always have to manually get urine and use the vein in her neck for blood (and she bruises so easily! makes me sad  )

Marie - I will definitely give Roxy extra loving from you. I think she feels the support from you guys, I really do. Dogs have extra senses, ya know? I'm hoping she feels the extra positive energy shes getting. I'm considering what you've said about focusing solely on the wee pads. I guess I'm just a bit torn between what everyones saying. It seems like most people have done dual training, but a lot have done either/or too. Roxy likes going outside with Bronco when he does his business. So.. I guess I could just let her outside and not follow/watch, just let her do whatever? But then what if she potties outside, should that be praised or left alone?

Maggie - Thanks so much for the article! It's from the June issue so what I'm hoping is that in a week or so it will be in the archives where I can access it for free! Did you have success with this method of training?


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## SammieMom

I would do inside pad training only till she learns not to use the carpet and bed. That's bec I have to leave mine too long to hold it alone, your situation may be different. 

I see your in Florida. Well, we both know it's damp in the am, and hot as heck in summer. It is difficult to walk them in heat and hot roads, and early in am with all the dew on grass. This is why I found using pads inside the home to be best! I wanted to use my porch too, but they can't hold it when I'm gone or at night where are they going to know to go  on the floor. :w00t: As they matured they learned it was either inside or out. But I started as puppies with indoor pads first, and when possible we go outside when I first come home, if it's not too hot. I can take them for quick trip in yard bec it's fenced in, but they get hot pretty quick so I stay with them always and we come back inside and go for walks later in day when it cools off. The heat and dampness in am is a big problem in Florida for my Maltese. 
My IRIS PEN is 48 x 48 inches and I would put 2 pads, bed, water, toys and when I come home take them to inside pads. If you take her to the porch that won't work when she has go and get out there, like when your not watching her, or when your gone or at night. Mine go couple times a day and sometimes during the night. I would put pads inside a room somewhere and teach her that is her spot. Once she goes, her door to pen is opened for her to wander in and out. In about hour take her back to pads again. Every time you take her out of pen go to the inside pads (she won't always have to go) so sometimes just let her run around a bit, then back to the pads or pen again. just use common sense as to when she needs to go in pen versus run free time. The key is taking her to that spot and giving treat if she goes, and she will learn. but watch out if she sees a treat she will just want the treat. so get it after she goes. You will be very proud when you see her going to her pads. she might make accidents for a while, but it will one day be all pads. I don't think the porch is good idea for you. 

A lot of what you decide to do depends on your home situation. Are you able to use pads inside somewhere? Not all owners can if living with other people. I felt the crate at night would be an issue after so long sleeping with you. They are very stubborn and creatures of habit. Not all small dogs are easy to turn around IMO. Remember she can read your face expressions if your upset when you see the pee. So be happy and take her to her spot. :HistericalSmiley:


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

kissmyhorse said:


> Thanks guys, I'll throw out the urine sample. I just hate having to put her through poking and prodding. She never gives urine or blood the easy way. They always have to manually get urine and use the vein in her neck for blood (and she bruises so easily! makes me sad  )
> 
> Marie - I will definitely give Roxy extra loving from you. I think she feels the support from you guys, I really do. Dogs have extra senses, ya know? I'm hoping she feels the extra positive energy shes getting. I'm considering what you've said about focusing solely on the wee pads. I guess I'm just a bit torn between what everyones saying. It seems like most people have done dual training, but a lot have done either/or too. Roxy likes going outside with Bronco when he does his business. So.. I guess I could just let her outside and not follow/watch, just let her do whatever? But then what if she potties outside, should that be praised or left alone?
> 
> Maggie - Thanks so much for the article! It's from the June issue so what I'm hoping is that in a week or so it will be in the archives where I can access it for free! Did you have success with this method of training?


Bridgette, ask the vet to draw Roxy's blood. Just tell the vet you feel more comfortable with the vet doing that for now. If it's a good vet they will have no problem with that. Also, the vet can draw blood from another area than the neck. Once the vet drew blood from Snowball's leg area (I forget which part ) because for some reason ( probably a collapsed vein from stress) it was difficult at that one visit to draw easily from the shoulder/neck area. (That was the only time there was a problem drawing blood in the usual spot)

I haven't meant to confuse you with my feedback on potty training. It's great if she goes inside and out. And, she can. Of course, if she goes outside then praise her! I guess I am thinking that you have to focus in making sure she understands the appropriate places to go when inside the house. Bridgette, I am not always right ... LOL. I do suggest that when you speak to the vet next week that you ask about their suggestions, too.

Bridgette, if you are having difficulty bringing up the pictures of Roxy ... Do you mind if I post the pictures of her from 2010? She is so cute. She did look very thin though.


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## SammieMom

Wanted to add to your situation question. Are you on ground floor with yard access and a fence? We have to watch for big dogs, and hawks here with small dogs. I never leave mine alone outside. If your not on ground floor home/apartment or have a fenced yard I would use pads indoors. As long as she uses the porch she won't know where to go inside the home exclusively.


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## CorkieYorkie

We've had (and pretty much continue to have) potty issues with our rescues too. Ozzie is a marker and Lisa has frequent bladder infections. We take them out every two hours. We also have large crates for when we're at work (we tried gating them in the kitchen but they escape) and for when they don't go potty outside, which is very rare (unless, in Ozzie's case, it's raining), fortunately. 

They STILL sometimes have accidents, despite going out only an hour prior sometimes. In some cases, it's due to Lisa's bladder, sometimes it's Ozzie marking, but most likely, it is out of fear/anxiety (ex: Lisa peed in the hallway in front of the elevators last weekend because we had ours and their overnight bags and were on our way to dropping them off at my parents' house). 

I would definitely stop having Roxy sleep with you, unless you want to risk her peeing in your bed again. We stopped for awhile too when Lisa started having accidents. We have been caving lately, but if someone pees, we will have no one to blame but ourselves. Hopefully the vet will give you some insight. I would also STRONGLY recommend hiring a trainer (something we still need to do too). Be honest with them about Roxy's and your issues with pottying and punishment.

I appreciate your honesty, and hope that you will never punish Roxy again. I might be in the minority here, but I would hate to see Roxy be given up if she has been with you for 3 years. Especially given how many dogs are in need of homes. I think your relationship can be mended with hard work, but only if you are truly up to it.


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## SammieMom

I agree a trainer is a great idea and reading the literature mentioned in this thread as well. :thumbsup:


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## maggieh

kissmyhorse said:


> Maggie - Thanks so much for the article! It's from the June issue so what I'm hoping is that in a week or so it will be in the archives where I can access it for free! Did you have success with this method of training?


I was lucky in that both of my girls took to pads quickly and Witt a problem - I never had a dog who was OK with laying in their own urine. My friend has a puppy Jill mom who isn't quite getting the idea of letting her know when to go out, so she has just started this. Hopefully it will work.


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## kissmyhorse

OMG SHE DID IT SHE DID IT SHE DID IT!!!!!!:yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:

Roxy's been in her new pen since this afternoon and has had a chance to become familiar with it. I tried to disturb her very little to let her settle in and feel safe in it. WELL, she has been showing signs of having to potty for a few hours (circling, sniffing, etc) so I knew she was going to have to go soon - just was it going to be in the potty box with the wee pad or on the towel/bed area with her food? I was really hoping for the best! Every time she would circle and sniff she would look at me and I had to pretend to be looking at the computer or at the tv or something because she obviously didn't want to go with me watching. So I just stepped into the kitchen for like 2 minutes and when I came back she had peed on the pad!!!!! Omg we had a huge party!!! I hope it was soon enough for her to associate it. She definitely saw my completely gleeful facial expression lol. I am really hoping this is a sign that we are on our way back :biggrin:

I very much want to thank everyone on here. You guys have put so much effort and thought into me and Roxy. Please know how greatly it is appreciated by both of us!!!!!!:ThankYou:

Answers to some questions - Marie, Roxy would not mind at all if you could post her pictures! I should have some time tomorrow or Monday to get some new ones onto photobucket and on here. Then we can all look at what she looked like off the streets compared to now  She was def thin when I got her. She's about half a pound heavier now, and we all know how much that is considering their size. Now she usually falls between 5.2lbs-5.4lbs (she may have gone up to 5.5 recently though lol). And about our home, we are in a townhome so on the ground level and we have a screened in patio inside a fenced in area. The patio takes up pretty much the entire "yard" so theres no grass, but honestly she doesn't like grass much anyways. We do have access to some large grass areas just outside though. The weather here is a bit of a challenge sometimes. I wouldn't ever expect her to go outside during rain lol. I'm lucky of my big dog toughs it out for a quick pee haha.

For now at least I think I'm going to stick with this pen & potty box set up, focusing on her using the pads. I will probably still let her outside once or twice during the day just to let her hang out if anything and if she potties out there then awesome too. I am REALLY happy about this right now lol :chili::sHa_banana:


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## michellerobison

kissmyhorse said:


> OMG SHE DID IT SHE DID IT SHE DID IT!!!!!!:yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:
> 
> Roxy's been in her new pen since this afternoon and has had a chance to become familiar with it. I tried to disturb her very little to let her settle in and feel safe in it. WELL, she has been showing signs of having to potty for a few hours (circling, sniffing, etc) so I knew she was going to have to go soon - just was it going to be in the potty box with the wee pad or on the towel/bed area with her food? I was really hoping for the best! Every time she would circle and sniff she would look at me and I had to pretend to be looking at the computer or at the tv or something because she obviously didn't want to go with me watching. So I just stepped into the kitchen for like 2 minutes and when I came back she had peed on the pad!!!!! Omg we had a huge party!!! I hope it was soon enough for her to associate it. She definitely saw my completely gleeful facial expression lol. I am really hoping this is a sign that we are on our way back :biggrin:
> 
> I very much want to thank everyone on here. You guys have put so much effort and thought into me and Roxy. Please know how greatly it is appreciated by both of us!!!!!!:ThankYou:
> 
> Answers to some questions - Marie, Roxy would not mind at all if you could post her pictures! I should have some time tomorrow or Monday to get some new ones onto photobucket and on here. Then we can all look at what she looked like off the streets compared to now  She was def thin when I got her. She's about half a pound heavier now, and we all know how much that is considering their size. Now she usually falls between 5.2lbs-5.4lbs (she may have gone up to 5.5 recently though lol). And about our home, we are in a townhome so on the ground level and we have a screened in patio inside a fenced in area. The patio takes up pretty much the entire "yard" so theres no grass, but honestly she doesn't like grass much anyways. We do have access to some large grass areas just outside though. The weather here is a bit of a challenge sometimes. I wouldn't ever expect her to go outside during rain lol. I'm lucky of my big dog toughs it out for a quick pee haha.
> 
> For now at least I think I'm going to stick with this pen & potty box set up, focusing on her using the pads. I will probably still let her outside once or twice during the day just to let her hang out if anything and if she potties out there then awesome too. I am REALLY happy about this right now lol :chili::sHa_banana:


Good news! Maybe she's sensing you're happy and less tense and really rooting for her. I bet she can feel the encouragement and happiness in the air...
Feeling the love too I bet!


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

kissmyhorse said:


> OMG SHE DID IT SHE DID IT SHE DID IT!!!!!!:yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:
> 
> Roxy's been in her new pen since this afternoon and has had a chance to become familiar with it. I tried to disturb her very little to let her settle in and feel safe in it. WELL, she has been showing signs of having to potty for a few hours (circling, sniffing, etc) so I knew she was going to have to go soon - just was it going to be in the potty box with the wee pad or on the towel/bed area with her food? I was really hoping for the best! Every time she would circle and sniff she would look at me and I had to pretend to be looking at the computer or at the tv or something because she obviously didn't want to go with me watching. So I just stepped into the kitchen for like 2 minutes and when I came back she had peed on the pad!!!!! Omg we had a huge party!!! I hope it was soon enough for her to associate it. She definitely saw my completely gleeful facial expression lol. I am really hoping this is a sign that we are on our way back :biggrin:
> 
> I very much want to thank everyone on here. You guys have put so much effort and thought into me and Roxy. Please know how greatly it is appreciated by both of us!!!!!!:ThankYou:
> 
> Answers to some questions - Marie, Roxy would not mind at all if you could post her pictures! I should have some time tomorrow or Monday to get some new ones onto photobucket and on here. Then we can all look at what she looked like off the streets compared to now  She was def thin when I got her. She's about half a pound heavier now, and we all know how much that is considering their size. Now she usually falls between 5.2lbs-5.4lbs (she may have gone up to 5.5 recently though lol). And about our home, we are in a townhome so on the ground level and we have a screened in patio inside a fenced in area. The patio takes up pretty much the entire "yard" so theres no grass, but honestly she doesn't like grass much anyways. We do have access to some large grass areas just outside though. The weather here is a bit of a challenge sometimes. I wouldn't ever expect her to go outside during rain lol. I'm lucky of my big dog toughs it out for a quick pee haha.
> 
> For now at least I think I'm going to stick with this pen & potty box set up, focusing on her using the pads. I will probably still let her outside once or twice during the day just to let her hang out if anything and if she potties out there then awesome too. I am REALLY happy about this right now lol :chili::sHa_banana:


Well, this is wonderful news! Yay for Roxy! And, Bridgette, kudos to you for setting up the new pen for her with the pee pad. 

With this good news, Bridgette ... please make sure you still make that vet appointment for her on Monday. Our fluff babies should have annual check-ups anyway. You stil have to rule out any problems, just to be on the safe side, and to make sure that things are progressing in the right direction.

Please give Roxy more hugs and kisses from me.:wub:

Below are some of the pictures of your Roxy when you rescued her. And, one with her big brother.:wub::wub:


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## educ8m

Bridgette,
Yeah! :chili::chili::chili: I am so happy to hear that Roxy used the pee pad. I agree that you should still call the vet on Monday and get her checked out.


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## SammieMom

Oh, sweet girl. :wub::wub: That's great! I feel better knowing she has a safe clean place to stay now when your gone with space for her bed and pads. :thumbsup: They can learn quick with the right boundaries. Adults don't like to go inside their pen, or esp poop. You don't have a choice as your training her, but she is going to need a spot in a laundry room/spare bath for her pads; once she is ready. You might already done this, but if not and without making a big deal of it (for when your home) I would just set some pads down in her spot now. She can sniff around them, and she might even start using them now, over her pen, since adult dogs prefer to go outside the pen. The thing I noticed was that they associated the room the pads are in with - as the place to go potty. Don't know if she is same, but don't freak out if she went poop on the pads and peed elsewhere in her pen. Mine did that when they were learning and still will pee as far as possible away from the poop on their pads. :HistericalSmiley:


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## kissmyhorse

Oh man it's so funny to see those old pics!! Both the kids look so different now! lol. Thanks guys for the support  SammieMom, I was fortunate that I was actually able to create her pen around her wee box so that the box is in the spot that it will be in even when the pen is taken down. Taking all steps possible to avoid confusing her through this process


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## mrsmediauph

Bridgette, so happy to hear that things are headed in the right direction. :chili:


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## SammieMom

kissmyhorse said:


> Oh man it's so funny to see those old pics!! Both the kids look so different now! lol. Thanks guys for the support  SammieMom, I was fortunate that I was actually able to create her pen around her wee box so that the box is in the spot that it will be in even when the pen is taken down. Taking all steps possible to avoid confusing her through this process


You don't know how happy you make me telling me this. I was very concerned for her having to start over when it's time to go "out of the pen to the real place" and her transitioning to it easily. Don't freak out if she goofs up on carpet, it takes time when your training an adult like this. the house has been her pad for long time.

how are the nights going? I am so hoping she can sleep with you again. from your post yesterday, I am assuming you aren't going to get sleep if she is crated? :blink: been there too!...did she ever pee in the bed during the night or was it when you were out of the bed?


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## eiksaa

That's great news!! If possible, only give her more freedom in tiny steps every few days. Keep expanding her 'pen' and eventually she will have one room, not the whole house. When she is good with that you can give her free roam. 

I think it's too early to have her sleep on the bed. You want to set her up for success. She will not take it personally if she's not sleeping on the bed. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## SammieMom

eiksaa said:


> That's great news!! If possible, only give her more freedom in tiny steps every few days. Keep expanding her 'pen' and eventually she will have one room, not the whole house. When she is good with that you can give her free roam.
> 
> I think it's too early to have her sleep on the bed. You want to set her up for success. She will not take it personally if she's not sleeping on the bed.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Your right Aastha- I am hoping she could sleep with her 'one day' again. 

But I am not sure how well this is going for her. I know after sleeping in the bed this long it can be very hard to sleep, some will literately bark all night. But your right, needs to be done.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

SammieMom said:


> Your right Aastha- I am hoping she could sleep with her 'one day' again.
> 
> But I am not sure how well this is going for her. I know after sleeping in the bed this long it can be very hard to sleep, some will literately bark all night. But your right, needs to be done.


I would almost be tempted to sleep on the floor with Roxy until she learns to use the pads full time. I guess I'm thinking Roxy would feel the ultimate bonding that is needed between her and Bridgette. And, only because Roxy did sleep on the bed before. 

I know ... I am sure some will feel that's going too far. And, that's okay. :yes:


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## mss

I'm glad to read the update! It sounds like she's a smart little girl and that in time, with gentle treatment and praise, she will learn what to do. I was happy to read that the place you want to be her "permanent" indoor potty place is within the pen area. You're definitely right about not confusing her too much! 

Sleeping in the same room as the pen is not a bad idea. Maybe you could keep her in the pen overnight and sleep in that room. Do you have a sofa there? When one of my dogs was recovering from knee surgery, I started sleeping on the sofa instead of my high, old-fashioned bed, so that he could be on the floor close to me. I set up a low ex-pen around the end of the sofa where I could put my hand down to touch him.  So if you were a few feet away from her, that might make her more comfortable in the pen overnight.

Edited to add: I'd still take her to the vet! My vets always draw urine the high-tech way, ultrasound guided cystocentesis they call it. The sample is sterile that way. My dogs don't seem to mind it, although it is done out of my sight.


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## kissmyhorse

She hasn't been in the bed for a few weeks. She was peeing on it when I would leave the room and once or twice she did pee during the night (but usually at night she would go on the floor). Roxy hasn't been bad at all about sleeping in her pen/crate so, for now, I think I will continue to have her sleep there where she has constant access to her potty box. The pen is in my bedroom, so I am still close and she can always see me. And SammieMom, I went around in my head with design ideas, changed the room around, and made sure I was positive about where I wanted to keep the potty box before I set her pen up. I know this little dog and I promise if I move this box we will have to start this process all over - no thanks! The pen is in a space where it will be able to be expanded to about 3x it's size if necessary. I'm hoping it won't be too long before Roxy can sleep in the bed again, but I am timid about it and don't want to back track so we are in no rush. I do miss it very much though... we would snuggle ever night for long periods and she would sleep intertwined with me. Makes me sad thinking about it!! When I would get into bed at night, Roxy would be on her bunny (she has a bunny pillow pet that she absolutely stole from me the moment she saw it, she uses it for a bed) and I would lay down and ask her "do you wanna snuggle?" and she would come over so happily and squeeze so close to me and just be so happy and content. We would kiss and love and oh I just miss that so much


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## SammieMom

Thanks for explaining more. Hopefully she will be generally house broken pretty quickly. The bed sets her up for failure and she may be able to pick up old scents. If there is no pad spot close the going on floor and bed at night may been bec her potty place was outdoors. Mine sometime need to go at night too. One will venture in the house at night to the pads, but other is apt to wake me.


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## kissmyhorse

I have to admit, I had Roxy on the bed for some snuggle time. She never left my arms though and the mattress pad is new so I'm really hoping she can not pick up anything from the bed. Later, WE HAD SUCCESS AGAIN!!!!:clap::walklikeanegyptian::yahoo: And I was even in the room this time! I was at my desk with my back to her pen and I heard her go in the box. Tried to sneak a few peeks and she peed again! Yay!!! I was a little worried because earlier while the ferrets were out she was laying in the potty box (Roxy's not a big fan of the fuzzies) even though they couldn't get into her pen or anything. So I was concerned that she wouldn't remember that that place was for pottying, but she did her business!!! Of course she got a ton of treats and praise. :chili:


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## mss

Great news! Vibes for continued success! :biggrin: {{{}}}


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## educ8m

Bridgette, I am glad things continue to go better for Roxy. Please, please, please still call the vet and make an appointment to have her checked out. It sounds like she may still be peeing frequently (even if it is in the right place). We owe it to our fluffs to take them in for a wellness check once a year anyway. If Roxy would happen to have a urinary tract infection, you would want to know, right?


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

educ8m said:


> Bridgette, I am glad things continue to go better for Roxy. Please, please, please still call the vet and make an appointment to have her checked out. It sounds like she may still be peeing frequently (even if it is in the right place). We owe it to our fluffs to take them in for a wellness check once a year anyway. If Roxy would happen to have a urinary tract infection, you would want to know, right?


Yes, Bridgette ... please follow through and make that appointment today, that is if you have not already done so. 

Looking forward to an update today ...


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## Yogi's Mom

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I would almost be tempted to sleep on the floor with Roxy until she learns to use the pads full time. I guess I'm thinking Roxy would feel the ultimate bonding that is needed between her and Bridgette. And, only because Roxy did sleep on the bed before.
> 
> I know ... I am sure some will feel that's going too far. And, that's okay. :yes:


 

*I Did Do that Marie Oh Yes I Did. The first 2 weeks I had Yogi* Then I Learned About Pens And So Much More. I thought He Would Never Stop Having Bad Potty Habits. And now hes Perfect with them. Iam a Proud Mommy***

*I Hope this will Happen for Her. Nickee**


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## kissmyhorse

Roxy's booked to see the vet Wednesday at 2:15  If my schedule permits, I'm going to try to take her in tomorrow afternoon but I'm not sure what I'll be into tomorrow so I booked Wednesday to be sure I had something. 

Today has gone okay. This morning I let her outside with Bronco but she didn't do any business. She peed in her box as soon as she came in though so we of course had a big party with lots of lovin and treats  However, I came home from the barn to find her out of her pen. I guess she jumped on top of her wee box and out of the pen :smilie_tischkante: She had pooped outside the box, inside her pen on her bed area and peed in my bathroom once she was outside the pen. So slight set back. I took the kids for a walk which they enjoyed, as always. I carried Roxy part of the way though because I was worried the sidewalk was getting too hot in places that weren't shaded. She peed on the walk and got praise too. A so-so day so far. We will see if I can find a way to keep her in her pen while I'm at school tonight :blink:


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## kissmyhorse




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## Furbabies mom

Oh she is cute!


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## casa verde maltese

she is learning that you love for her to go potty!.. so that is good! hang in there!!!


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## kissmyhorse

I think I figured out how to get some pics up...

The kids!!!

(Roxy's on her bunny, invisible lol)


Roxy in her onsie on her bunny after being spayed


Lovin!


This is the longest I can let her hair get. Its impossible to keep it from matting into one big clump after this lol


He's a beast in bed :blink:


These next two are from one of Bronco's birthdays



And one from one of Roxy's birthdays


Some pics of the kids at a reptile convention we went to


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## Furbabies mom

Great pics and your two are beautiful.


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## mss

She is sooo cute! AND Bronco is very handsome! :wub:

Does Bronco live inside, too? Could Bronco's presence have an effect on the potty situation, whether indoors or out?

To keep her from climbing out of the pen, you can put a top over it. For starters, you might try a blanket and some clothespins to make a top over just the area where she would use her box as a stepstool.


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## kissmyhorse

Thanks guys! Imo, these are the cutest kids on the block! ..but I may be a bit bias

Bronco does live inside too, but Roxy is definitely the dominant one in their relationship... like seriously, I have to keep her in check sometimes.

When I left, I draped the closet curtain over her pen so hopefully she won't be out when I get home from school -_-*


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## kissmyhorse

Do you guys have any tips on how to whiten the tips of Roxy's ears, tail, and feet? I know her feet are partly due to her chewing (which I'm hoping to solve with a diet change that eliminates poultry) but her ears and tail get dragged through stuff and the tips pretty much always seem to have a very slight yellow to them.


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## Bailey&Me

kissmyhorse said:


> Roxy's booked to see the vet Wednesday at 2:15  If my schedule permits, I'm going to try to take her in tomorrow afternoon but I'm not sure what I'll be into tomorrow so I booked Wednesday to be sure I had something.
> 
> Today has gone okay. This morning I let her outside with Bronco but she didn't do any business. She peed in her box as soon as she came in though so we of course had a big party with lots of lovin and treats  However, I came home from the barn to find her out of her pen. I guess she jumped on top of her wee box and out of the pen :smilie_tischkante: She had pooped outside the box, inside her pen on her bed area and peed in my bathroom once she was outside the pen. So slight set back. I took the kids for a walk which they enjoyed, as always. I carried Roxy part of the way though because I was worried the sidewalk was getting too hot in places that weren't shaded. She peed on the walk and got praise too. A so-so day so far. We will see if I can find a way to keep her in her pen while I'm at school tonight :blink:


My Emma is a climber too so I have to keep her pen covered. I use an Iris pen and bought the cover for it on Amazon. 


Sent from my iPad using PG Free


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## CorkieYorkie

They are adorable !! I think her ears look fine !!


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## chicklet and simba

Bailey&Me said:


> My Emma is a climber too so I have to keep her pen covered. I use an Iris pen and bought the cover for it on Amazon.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using PG Free


My Simba is as well... We originally got an iris pen with the mesh cover and I was thinking he would not be able to get out of it for sure... Cos I went in there and tried to push the cover to see if it can be done... I failed so I felt confident he won't be able to get out of it at all. Apparently if they want out they will get out. We came home from dinner aNd he was out running around the house. He didn't do any damage or had any surprises for me, but I didn't think he should have run of the house so he got relocated to gated hallway. . Just something to think about. If you have a climber, maybe a pen with only vertical bars would be best so they can't climb. Amazon has one I liked and almost got but we figured if he likes the gated hallway he can stay there. It's not a really long hallway it might be just as big as a pen. I think it was called north states super yard 3 in 1.


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## kissmyhorse

Happily, she stayed in her pen with the curtain over it while I was at school last night. Also, as far as I can tell, she hasn't pottied outside her box again  I'm a little concerned about when she poops because when she does, she seems like she has to walk or be walking in place (is this weird?) so I wouldn't be surprised if she just walked out of the box while still pooping. She does the walking thing with peeing too, but will usually stop once she starts going. I'm not sure if this is normal, but she's always done it.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

kissmyhorse said:


> Happily, she stayed in her pen with the curtain over it while I was at school last night. Also, as far as I can tell, she hasn't pottied outside her box again  I'm a little concerned about when she poops because when she does, she seems like she has to walk or be walking in place (is this weird?) so I wouldn't be surprised if she just walked out of the box while still pooping. She does the walking thing with peeing too, but will usually stop once she starts going. I'm not sure if this is normal, but she's always done it.


Bridgette, I am guessing she has to walk or is walking in place because it might help her eliminate her poops better. If she is not getting enough exercise it could be slowing down things ... however, I am just guessing.

Before Snowball does a pee on the pad he circles around a few times before urinating. Before his poopies he often circles around several times at a much faster pace before stopping and then doing his poopies. 

If one does not move much (humans and dogs) ... then constipation can be a problem. Also, check her anal area to make sure she doesn"t have any dingle berries. ( a little bit of dry fecal matter hanging on or blocking the anal area a tad) I call them dingle berries. :HistericalSmiley: 

I'd mention your concerns about this to the vet this week. Oh, and write down all your notes of questions you want to discuss with the vet. It really helps so that we don't forget anything that might really be important and/or help the doctor.

You mention a box ... what kind of box? And, why are you using it?


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## mss

I believe she said that she had made a place for the dog to potty out of a large plastic storage bin with a hole cut in it, and pads inside.


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## kissmyhorse

Success again! Double time!!! Came home today to poo AND pee in the potty box :chili::sHa_banana::chili: I'm sooooo happy about this, and she's stayed in her pen as well, even when I forgot to put the curtain over it. I will let you guys know what the tests show tomorrow. Hopefully she doesn't have anything wrong and we can continue making progress.

Marie - You may have something there with the exercise suggestion. I will start walking more with her. I took both kids out yesterday for a short walk, but got worried that the sidewalk was getting too hot so I carried Roxy part of the way. It's not the best weather for them though - they were both panting for a good 45 mins after we came back. I'll maybe have to go in the early evening from now on.

Oh, and yes the potty box was a large tote with a hole cut in the side. Now, her crate is being used as the potty box. I'm using it instead for a few reasons - 1) she had peed and pooped in it quite a few times so I'm sure that even with cleaning it still smells of potty to her 2) since it has a latching door, I can close it when the ferrets are roaming the room to keep them out of it. Roxy doesn't like when they use her potty box.. or anything else of hers for that matter 3) the opening of the crate is easier for her to walk through and she likes it better 4) it actually looks better in the corner than the tote did


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## mss

I think this means that you will never actually be able to crate her for safety or transportation unless you buy another and probably a different type of crate. I think Roxy would be confused by it being okay/wonderful to pee and poop in it sometimes but not others. 

During this time that you are doing remedial training, please let her have access to the designated area at all times. Don't let the ferrets be a reason to close the door to the potty area.


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## kissmyhorse

Yea I've thought about that and weighing the pros and cons I'm totally okay with having to purchase another crate if there is ever a need for transportation. This potty box set up is working for her right now so I'm going to stick with it  The door isn't even on the crate right now because the crate is inside her pen. I won't even have to consider using it for quite some time as I don't want to move too quickly with this. Aiming for steady progress 

More good potty in the box this morning! I'm not sure if she also pottied on her blanket or if it was a food/water spill. It didn't smell like urine and was barely noticeable but just incase it was a light pee I changed the blankie. If it was potty, it was my fault because I may have left the wee pad too long. I'm trying to find that balance of not changing them too quickly to keep her aware that that's the proper potty spot and leaving them too long to where she doesn't want to go in. I think we're doing good!

Leaving for her vets appointment in a few mins. I'll keep you guys posted


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## kissmyhorse

Ok soooo.... kind of a fail on my part... :embarrassed:

On our way out to the vet I let Roxy pee and poo in the grass outside. As she was doing her business it hit me - dang! he's probably gonna want that.. Anyways long story short we tried again at the vets to get a sample (and she did squeeze some more out, such a good girl!!) but it was just too quick for the tech to catch in the tin. Not sure whether it's luckily or unluckily for me, but because of her feet chewing, Roxy has had a minor nail bed infection for about a week which I showed to the vet. So he gave her antibiotics to treat that and also any infection that she may have in her urinary tract/bladder. Honestly I'm not terribly upset that we didnt get a sample because, in theory I couldnt afford the visit even without the urinalysis - and like the vet said, these antibiotics will treat any infection that is/is not there. She's got a recheck in 7 days so we will see how she's doing in a week 

Does anyone else's pup have issues with itchy feet? I told the vet that Roxy had horribly itchy feet when eating Solid Gold (lamb based) and that they have calmed down since switching to Innova (chicken/turkey/duck) but that they are obviously still itchy and that I was considering switching to TOTW Pacific Stream (grain free, salmon/oceanfish) but was a little concerned it would leaver her smelling fishy lol. He said it could possibly help but that her itchy feet could be from an external allergy like to cement or grass or anything really. What are you guys' thoughts on this?


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## casa verde maltese

Feet Allergy! - why yes, I think there are few folks out there with itchy feet. Atticus Chews his feet.. and we have changed food a couple of times and that really hasn't worked. We are doing one more food change..to no fowl (we have tried what you've tried and that didn't work).. and so now one more switch to Fromms and then we may have to start Benedryl or something like that.

I hope the antibiotics work!


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## chichi

Roxy is adorable and you have made great progress!!


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## kissmyhorse

Hi guys, just thought I'd give you an update:

Roxy finished her round of antibiotics and had her recheck at the vets. Everything looks fine. Her foot's much better and if she did have a bladder infection it's been taken care of. The vet seems to think that her itchy feet are more likely caused by a contact allergy to grass, cement, or something of the like, rather than a food allergy since she doesn't show irritation anywhere else on her body. So I'm debating weather or not to switch her food like I had planned. She's currently on Innova (chicken, turkey, duck) and I was going to switch to TOTW Pacific Stream (Salmon, oceanfish meal, grain free). Not sure what I'm gonna do about that.

As for her potty situation, she had a few misses but nothing big. She has been in her pen with her potty box and was doing so great that I was considering extending her pen to make it bigger. However, she then peed and pooped outside her box in her bedding so I definitely wont be extending it yet. She also goes potty outside if she feels the need to when she's out there. Hopefully this will only be a minor setback and we can get back to pottying in the box. Any more thoughts/comments/criticisms on our situation are most certainly welcomed and appreciated!!! Roxy and Bronco both send their love and gratitude to those who have helped us come so far!


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## mss

I'm glad to read your update.  It sounds like you've got things going pretty well on the various fronts! 

I'm not sure what to recommend about the food. TOTW sounds good--if there's not a huge price difference, would you want to try it for a while to see if it helps at all? 

I think you're right to go back to/stick to the pen and potty box setup that was working previously. Habits take some time to become strong! 

Hugs to you and your little one. And the big one, too! :grouphug:


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## LVLux

I have a very beautiful expensive home & my Maltese pees & poos all over the place-They sometimes are known for this issues especially in the winter months-I dont care if she does it-I wish she would not but love her so much that I just let it go!
If you are interested in rehoming her then I am looking for a female maltese. Feel free to contact me.


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## Cyndilou

This made me pretty sad. I also have a really nice what I consider my dream home. I knew what came with having a pet. I didn't complain when my child threw up everywhere. She even threw up in the air vent of my brand new car. Projectile vomiting. Puppies and dogs have to be trained and being mean won't do it. 
I hope I didn't take this post wrong.


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## maggieh

Cyndilou said:


> This made me pretty sad. I also have a really nice what I consider my dream home. I knew what came with having a pet. I didn't complain when my child threw up everywhere. She even threw up in the air vent of my brand new car. Projectile vomiting. Puppies and dogs have to be trained and being mean won't do it.
> I hope I didn't take this post wrong.


Cyndi, I took it the same way you did.



LVLux said:


> I have a very beautiful expensive home & my Maltese pees & poos all over the place-They sometimes are known for this issues especially in the winter months-I dont care if she does it-I wish she would not but love her so much that I just let it go!
> If you are interested in rehoming her then I am looking for a female maltese. Feel free to contact me.


LVLux - would you please clarify this - I'm not sure what your post is saying and hope that how I took it is not what you intended.


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## Leila'sMommy

LVLux said:


> I have a very beautiful expensive home & my Maltese pees & poos all over the place-They sometimes are known for this issues especially in the winter months-I dont care if she does it-I wish she would not but love her so much that I just let it go!
> If you are interested in rehoming her then I am looking for a female maltese. Feel free to contact me.


I'm not trying to gang up on you or anything but I haven't seen one word where it sounds like she is wanting to rehome her baby. She's trying to get advise on what to do. Also, I just read today in two different replies you wrote that you are trying to find another Maltese. If you don't mind them just peeing and pooping all over the place and just let it go (your words), are you really sure you're able to take care of another one? Sure, puppies are going to have accidents in the house, but they need to be trained. I hope that by saying "let it go" that you don't mean that you don't try to at least train them and that you at least clean it up properly instead of letting them and your family live in feces and urine all over the place. Like I said, I'm not trying to jump on you, so please don't take it that way. I'm just trying to figure out if I'm misunderstanding what you said. But if you do mean it the way it sounds, please don't get another one. 


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## Neetaz

LVLux said:


> I have a very beautiful expensive home & my Maltese pees & poos all over the place-They sometimes are known for this issues especially in the winter months-I dont care if she does it-I wish she would not but love her so much that I just let it go!
> If you are interested in re-homing her then I am looking for a female Maltese. Feel free to contact me.


Wow, give Bridgette a break, she has reached out, taken some tough criticism, and really has made what I believe is a wholehearted attempt at fixing their family issues. I feel at this point people should stop with the discouraging and mean statement...I believe if you are going to comment on a post then please read the whole thread so you are up-to-date on the situation.

I believe Bridgette and Roxy's story can teach us all what I believe this forum is about. Members can come here and ask for help, sure hearing a response could be tough, even mean, but most of the time it is because the members are passionate....but most often the end result is we can help other work through their problems, and lead to a happy ending.


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## ToniLWilson

Gongjoo said:


> I'm late coming to this thread, and this may be repetitive, but I'm going to throw in my 2 cents anyway.
> 
> I'm one who promotes crate training, key word being_ training._ Khloee has been cratetrained since the day I got her, and she did wonderfully with potty training with the exception of a couple sporadic accidents in the past. HOWEVER, I never kept her confined in a crate for 90% of the day. I really hope that was an exaggeration on your part.
> 
> I think every single person on this forum has been frustrated at one time or another with potty training. If you research the maltese breed, you will be openly informed that maltese struggle with house breaking. It takes a LOT of time and patience, and should be something considered prior to acquisition. Khloee was crate trained from day 1, and almost 9 months later, I still pay for a sitter to come over several times a day to let her out and play with her so she isn't confined too long while I am at work. We JUST progressed to getting rid of the crate and using the play pen only, and I know we have a _long _time before, if ever, Khloee will have full run of the house. Like I said, it takes time, patience, money...but these were things I researched and were ready to commit myself to before I brought Khloee home. I think you probably should have done some more research beforehand.
> 
> I wont go so far to say you shouldn't have kids, because that's reaching a bit. However, I will say that what I find absolutely infuriating is that you acknowledge what you are doing is wrong, but do it anyway! What's more, it seems that when one method fails, you progress to harsher strategies; its unacceptable, and blows my mind. Some here consider 22 young and reason for heghtened nativity, but as a 25 year old I say you are a grown, educated woman who should know better. Truly- I don't interpret you coming forth on this forum as courageous. Rather, I think you were looking for others to sympathize with you and relieve some of your guilt.
> 
> Like others have said, you have gotten some really good advice here. I'm not sure what you will choose to do, but whichever path you choose, please, please, PLEASE do the selfless and right thing by HER.


:goodpost:


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## mss

I'd just like to point out that this thread is now 17 pages long! I think some people are failing to read the OP (Original Poster's) updates. She has taken the dog to the vet, got some medication, set up an x-pen with a "potty box" in one part of it and some bedding, and it sounded like things were going better. 

Perhaps the thread should be closed or at least people should read her updates!


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

mss said:


> I'd just like to point out that this thread is now 17 pages long! I think some people are failing to read the OP (Original Poster's) updates. She has taken the dog to the vet, got some medication, set up an x-pen with a "potty box" in one part of it and some bedding, and it sounded like things were going better.
> 
> Perhaps the thread should be closed or at least people should read her updates!


As usual, I have not been online as much as I would like ... so, I have missed some of the more recent posts. I think this has been happening with many long time SM members ... not being able to be here as much as we would like. It doesn't mean that some of us don't care.

We have SM members that have threads much longer than seventeen pages long. I think that any positive support that Bridgette continues to get for Roxy is important. I do see at least one poster being critical of Bridgette ... so, with that, I don't think this poster took time to read the more current posts.

Bridgette, I apologize for not being here more. I will make an effort to go back and read your more current posts this evening. 

I don't understand why you think the thread should be closed. I see a thread today from two years ago that has responses!


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## mss

I was suggesting it should be closed just for the reason that people are skipping over the updates and are responding, on pages 16 and 17, to the first few posts. I thought a fresh start with a new post might prevent that. [Sorry if I was not clear about thinking a new thread might be appropriate, not cutting off the subject altogether.] I suggested that in the alternative people might read her updates. 

I'm not sure what other thread you are referring to--maybe the one with puppy pictures? 

This is a thread of questions and advice to a particular person about a particular situation which seems to be changing. So I thought there could be a way of bringing people's attention to the current situation with her and her dog.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

mss said:


> I was suggesting it should be closed just for the reason that people are skipping over the updates and are responding, on pages 16 and 17, to the first few posts. I thought a fresh start with a new post might prevent that. [Sorry if I was not clear about thinking a new thread might be appropriate, not cutting off the subject altogether.] I suggested that in the alternative people might read her updates.
> 
> I'm not sure what other thread you are referring to--maybe the one with puppy pictures?
> 
> This is a thread of questions and advice to a particular person about a particular situation which seems to be changing. So I thought there could be a way of bringing people's attention to the current situation with her and her dog.


Yes, I can understand it's probably best for Bridgette to start an updated thread. Good idea. 

The threads, in general, do seem to get lost when so many new ones pop up every day. I really miss a lot of threads when I am not online for a couple of days.

Yes, the puppy picture thread is a recent one. However, I am aware over the years, that once in a while we get a thread that has many pages.

I might be wrong, but I think if a thread is closed, one might not realize it is not the end of a conversation ... unless reference is made to a new updated thread. Does that make sense?

It seems to me that a thread is usually closed due to a subject getting too controversial ... and/or some members acting inappropriately.


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## mss

Good points.


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## Deborah

Bridgette this may seem very strange. My Marshmallow liked the crate it was a place of comfort for her. The crate for Rylee did not work and she pottied next to her food and water. I finally got tired of cleaning and disinfecting the crate on a daily basis. I let Rylee have full run of the house and we had no problems after that. Every once in a while she may have an accident and I think it is kind of a normal thing.
There is light at the end of the tunnel and I think you have taken the criticism very well and you are making great strides.


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## kissmyhorse

Wow this thread came back to life! haha! I really appreciate everyones input - even the harsh ones. When I came here, I knew that I would be given tough or even mean remarks, but I felt that I was at the end of my road so I had nothing to lose and everything to gain. I didn't (and still don't) care how some people may feel towards me as long as goodness for Roxy comes out of the situation. I definitely understand peoples frustrations and even hatred for me, but I'll say again, I made a commitment to Roxy when I adopted her. She is happy, healthy, and loved and will not be rehomed. Ever. I have learned so much from members comments and suggestions here and I want to continue to say how thankful I really am to everyone who has taken the time out of their day to help (yes I believe everyone on here has helped, even if it was rough) me in this situation. I appreciate the support SO much, I can't even tell you!!!!

Update on how we're doing: 
As you know from our last post, her recheck with the vet went well. Everything went fine with her course of antibiotics and such. I always ask questions and like to discuss things with the vet. This time he actually asked me if I was studying to become a vet lmao! I told him no that I just read a lot and like to be informed so that I can do the best I can for my kids. I sorta thought that's what everyone did but apparently not lol. He's a nice guy. 
Roxy has gone back to doing well in her pen & potty box! I think the slip up she had may have been due to me leaving the wee wee pads too long so she didn't want to go in the box. She will also potty outside when she's out there if she wants to and on several occasions she has pottied in her box with me in the room - which wasn't happening at one point. When she's out of her crate she is leashed so that we can avoid any accidents in the house. I am trying to take things really slow and not rush, but I would like to extend her pen a bit. So yes! SM members, we are doing very well and very appreciative of everyone's help!!! :grouphug::ThankYou:


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## michellerobison

Great news , good going on all the hard work. It is work to housebreak a fluff, no doubt about that. Glad you took her to the vet,UTI's can be hard to diagnose on your own, it really takes vet... UTI's are usually the first cause of an issue .

Still working on my puppy mill dog, she's getting better considering she's been forced to live in her pee and poo for almost 4 years... So glad you didn't give up on her, that shows more than just love ,it also shows a maturity to handle the situation and never be embarrassed to ask... it all works out.

Goodness knows I ask for help when needed,I don't know it all... not even close...


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

kissmyhorse said:


> Wow this thread came back to life! haha! I really appreciate everyones input - even the harsh ones. When I came here, I knew that I would be given tough or even mean remarks, but I felt that I was at the end of my road so I had nothing to lose and everything to gain. I didn't (and still don't) care how some people may feel towards me as long as goodness for Roxy comes out of the situation. I definitely understand peoples frustrations and even hatred for me, but I'll say again, I made a commitment to Roxy when I adopted her. She is happy, healthy, and loved and will not be rehomed. Ever. I have learned so much from members comments and suggestions here and I want to continue to say how thankful I really am to everyone who has taken the time out of their day to help (yes I believe everyone on here has helped, even if it was rough) me in this situation. I appreciate the support SO much, I can't even tell you!!!!
> 
> Update on how we're doing:
> As you know from our last post, her recheck with the vet went well. Everything went fine with her course of antibiotics and such. I always ask questions and like to discuss things with the vet. This time he actually asked me if I was studying to become a vet lmao! I told him no that I just read a lot and like to be informed so that I can do the best I can for my kids. I sorta thought that's what everyone did but apparently not lol. He's a nice guy.
> Roxy has gone back to doing well in her pen & potty box! I think the slip up she had may have been due to me leaving the wee wee pads too long so she didn't want to go in the box. She will also potty outside when she's out there if she wants to and on several occasions she has pottied in her box with me in the room - which wasn't happening at one point. When she's out of her crate she is leashed so that we can avoid any accidents in the house. I am trying to take things really slow and not rush, but I would like to extend her pen a bit. So yes! SM members, we are doing very well and very appreciative of everyone's help!!! :grouphug::ThankYou:


Thank you for the update, Bridgette.

Do you have Roxy leashed when you are not at home? If so, I am wondering if that is safe. 

How big is your house? Can you provide wee wee pads for Roxy in more than one location? We have pads on every level of our townhome for Snowball. He uses the middle level and upper levels all the time ... where we seem to spend the most time.

Were you able to share with the vet how upset you had become with Roxy? I understand that would probably be uncomfortable for you to share with the doctor.

Are you continuing to cuddle and praise Roxy as much as possible?

Bridgette, I think you are doing a great thing by updating us as often as you have been ... to me, it shows you are making efforts to continue to go in the right direction with Roxy's care and well being. I think by you willing to listen and take action on great feedback and suggestions ... and, also take the harsh criticism by some, with grace ... says a lot about how mature you are for your age. 

What are you studying in college? How many more years to earn your degree? Also, do you work long hours?

Thank you for checking in with us. Many of us truly care. 

Hugs for you and Roxy. And, her brother, too!


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## kissmyhorse

Thanks guys, it means a lot that I have some people who have stayed willing to help this whole time! Roxy and Bronco definitely appreciate the hugs, love, and well wishes  Michelle, that's interesting that you say that. Myself, several vets, and other individuals who rescue/train dogs suspect that Roxy was originally from a puppy mill. Although we will never know for sure where she came from, it's possible. 

I was unclear about the leashing before. I keep Roxy leashed either to me or to a nearby piece of furniture when she comes out of her pen for some "out" time while I'm home. If I'm working on something and she can't be supervised, or if I'm not home, she is in her pen without the leash. 

Since I'm not the only person living in the house, I would be very hesitant to leave wee wee pads anywhere other than my room. It's a small, ground floor, town house so really theres not much space anyways. Anywhere in the house she can go is under 100 feet from her potty box.

While at the vet's I was focused on the concerns over her allergies, foot, and possible UTI. I shared with him that I was having potty frustrations and thought she may have a UTI but did not go into detail as I did on here. Yes it's embarrassing, but I don't have an excuse - I just felt that we were doing so well and that that was in the past and I don't feel that dwelling heavily on it will help us move forward.

As for me, I'm currently studying (I'm sure this will horrify some of you) to become a teacher. My mother, her four sisters, my grandfather, and several of my cousins are all teachers. It's not as cushy of a profession as it once was, but it's pretty good considering the perks lol. The kids are the best part really - getting to help form young minds. The program is proving to be a beast though. It's as if they are discouraging us from entering the profession by making it far more long and tedious than anything we will encounter in the real world. I'm not the only student who feels this way. It's kind of a running joke that if they wanted to they could condense this program into a semester or two tops and we would come out knowing what we need to know, happy, and skip all the bs. I will graduate next May, so I have about 10 months left. Because the program is so intense I'm not working right now but at times am out of the house a majority of the day. I have always been able to come home mid day though. 

Roxy and Bronco are both getting lots of love and kisses. I let Roxy (leashed) on the bed with me last night for some snuggle time which she and I both really enjoyed. I can't wait until she can sleep in the bed with Bronco and I again. Her spot's so empty. I have to keep reminding myself that this needs to be taken very slow because if we back track it will take an even longer time to fix the second time around. Neither of us wants that LOL!!


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## Leila'sMommy

I'm so glad things are better! I didn't even think about suggesting changing pee pads more often. But Leila does not like to use hers more than a couple of times and she will pee on one and poop on the other and those places have to be spread far apart as far as she's concerned. 


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