# No more NB LID



## munchkn8835 (May 23, 2010)

I'm sad b/c Ollie seemed to like it. The Grandma Lucy was great for two days and then he wouldn't touch it. Took the GL back today and we are trying Fromm Wild Fowl (I think that's what it's called) and hoping no allergic reaction. Next step, if needed, is plain old Purina ProPlan. :smilie_tischkante:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Good luck Donna. Sammie is on Fromm non grain


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

munchkn8835 said:


> I'm sad b/c Ollie seemed to like it. The Grandma Lucy was great for two days and then he wouldn't touch it. Took the GL back today and we are trying Fromm Wild Fowl (I think that's what it's called) and hoping no allergic reaction. Next step, if needed, is plain old Purina ProPlan. :smilie_tischkante:


Oh sigh. When I was a kid my parents fed our dogs Skippy...they ate it and said, "Thank you." Kids today are so ungrateful. Have you tried caviar and poached fois gras?:innocent:

Seriously though, I am so sorry Ollie doesn't want to eat...maybe he just craves variety. I love lamb chops, but if I had them for the third day in a row, I wouldn't want to eat. Maybe you could choose five, six or seven foods that agree with him and keep rotating.


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## munchkn8835 (May 23, 2010)

I thought Fromm was all grain free. I better check into that. Sylvia, I try to use a bag and the next bag is another flavor of the same brand. He ate the food tonight and doesn't seem to be having any type of allergic reaction.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

Donna, it is so hard to find the perfect food...and really hard to try to home cook. The problem I have run into in trying to find a "grain free" food is that they are heavy on potatoes. I fear that potatoes may be contributing to diabetes in dogs. For myself I choose brown rice as a good source of slowly digested carbs....way better than potatoes. (But, I love potatoes...mashed, baked, French fried, boiled with their skins on...any potato I love.) Unfortunately, grain free foods are heavy with potatoes, which are ultimately super fast carbs equal to sugar. I know how hard it is to choose a good food, but just get fooled by "gain free" that has a lot of potato=sugar. I am keeping my guys on two of the best choices I could make. I want them to be able to digest a variety.


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## munchkn8835 (May 23, 2010)

Sylie....what do you feed (or did I miss it)?


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

All 3 of mine are on different foods..:smilie_tischkante: Lily is on a hypo-allergenic diet, Rose is on a high fiber, and Eva eats Innova. Donna, I think Fromm makes grain free now. I am now feeding Lily California Natural venison meal in place of the NB..


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## LoveLucy (Mar 18, 2012)

munchkn8835 said:


> I'm sad b/c Ollie seemed to like it. The Grandma Lucy was great for two days and then he wouldn't touch it. Took the GL back today and we are trying Fromm Wild Fowl (I think that's what it's called) and hoping no allergic reaction. Next step, if needed, is plain old Purina ProPlan. :smilie_tischkante:


Yikes! Did I miss something? I thought only certain formulas of NB LID were recalled. I've been feeding Lucy the Duck & Potato LID and she has gone almost a full month (!!!) without an episode of loose stools. I really hate to change. The last I checked (a few days ago) it was only specific formulas and my state (Nevada) wasn't affected. Man, the thought of going through another food trial gives me the shakes. :w00t:


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

munchkn8835 said:


> Sylie....what do you feed (or did I miss it)?


I am giving all three Solid Gold Just a Wee Bit. Ray and MiMi also get Canidae, but not for old Ru. Because Ru has a yeast overload I need to keep her diet really low in sugars ie potatoes etc. This is not easy...antibiotics twice a day for Ru, probiotics in the mid day. Colostrum before meals. And now I am trying MiMi on Angle Eyes, because I am at my wits end with the tear stains. I am going to start all three on probiotics. PHEW. I just feed my husband meat, carbs and vegetables and fruit...and he just keeps kicking. Oh, and coffee...coffee that is what we humans need to get us going.


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## munchkn8835 (May 23, 2010)

Gail, the place where I get Ollie's food said they had taken all the ones that had been recalled off their shelves. I just didn't feel comfortable feeding him the rest of the bag. I'll keep you posted on the Fromm I put him on.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

LoveLucy said:


> Yikes! Did I miss something? I thought only certain formulas of NB LID were recalled. I've been feeding Lucy the Duck & Potato LID and she has gone almost a full month (!!!) without an episode of loose stools. I really hate to change. The last I checked (a few days ago) it was only specific formulas and my state (Nevada) wasn't affected. Man, the thought of going through another food trial gives me the shakes. :w00t:


I don't think you need to worry about salmonella from the Diamond plant. What made me question NB LID was the heavy amount of fast carbs from potatoes. Grain free foods tend to contain high amounts of potatoes. I love potatoes, but I realize that they are by no means good nutrition. For myself, I consider brown rice a much better slowly digested carb....so I go for brown rice for my kids too.


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## munchkn8835 (May 23, 2010)

I thought Canidae was recalled. Hopefully I'm wrong. Never heard of Solid Gold but will google it.


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## LoveLucy (Mar 18, 2012)

munchkn8835 said:


> Gail, the place where I get Ollie's food said they had taken all the ones that had been recalled off their shelves. I just didn't feel comfortable feeding him the rest of the bag. I'll keep you posted on the Fromm I put him on.


Thanks! I feel fairly confident still with my formula. There are no duck formulas on the list, and my state isn't affected. I'm going to stick with it for awhile because, well, it's WORKING.  I also like the fact that NB says they test every batch of food themselves. After awhile, I might try Lucy on a lamb and brown eice formula of some kind, since those are easier to come by than duck formulas. I looked at Fromm's website, but it seemed that most of their formulas contained chicken (maybe I'm wrong), and I THINK I'm narrowing Lucy's diet issues down to chicken. Maybe. It's a long, frustrating process, for sure. :smilie_tischkante:


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

munchkn8835 said:


> I thought Fromm was all grain free. I better check into that. Sylvia, I try to use a bag and the next bag is another flavor of the same brand. He ate the food tonight and doesn't seem to be having any type of allergic reaction.


Fromm has a couple grain free formulas, but the majority does have grains. Bailey's breeder (Josymir) recommends a moderate protein (no more than 26%) protein. 

Fromm Family Foods Gourmet Dog & Cat Food, Naturally Holistic

I had been rotating through the Four Star products (except for the grain free), but I have started to feed Bailey Castor & Pollux Organix. It got the highest rating of five stars from dogfoodanalysis.

Castor and Pollux Organix Dry Dog Food | Review and Rating

I mix it with Fresh Pet and Bailey gobbles it up!


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## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

Solid gold was also involved in the recall, keep in mind many of the foods that were recalled did not yet have reports of any illnesses but they came from the same plant where the problem was found. Some of the different lines of the brands were also made in other plants not involved in the recall. That makes a difference for some people-not myself in particular but if it does for you its just something to keep in mind.

Fromm four star carries their grain free line, there are currently four grain free flavors and 5 that do contain grain. We use the four star line and tend to try to stay in the grain free.

Edit to include the list of recalled brands thus far: 

4Health
Apex
Canidae
Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover’s Soul
Country Value
Diamond

Diamond Naturals

News Release April 6, 2012
News Release May 18, 2012
Kirkland Signature
Natural Balance
Premium Edge
Professional
Solid Gold
Taste of the Wild
Wellness


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

For Fromm, the four star nutritionals- There are 5 varieties with grain and 4 grain-free flavors. The grain-free that Obi likes is the game bird recipe and the protein is 29% which is actually on the lower side compared to other grain-free brands. I mix in fresh fruit or veggies so his protein intake as a whole is not too high. Have you tried rotating a "topper" rather than switching kibble so frequently? This seems to help Obi be less bored with his food. His toppers range from dog-allowed fruit, raw veggies, Stella and Chewy's, etc... It's not like fully home cooking but I think it's good for their diet to get some variety and fresh food! I hope the Fromm works for Ollie! I think the grain free and regular are both high quality.


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## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

Donna, we use NB LID with Bella and I was ready to throw in the towel (since she wasn't eating much). It appears that I may indeed have a bit of a Diva on my hands though. Today I added a bit of Greek Yogurt to it and she ate nearly to entire bowl of it (which is a HUGE difference in her merely nibbling at it before). I'm thinking I may give her the a.m. serving with yogurt and her p.m. feeding with a bit of the canned NB mixed in. BTW, I'm mixing in just enough of the soft stuff to make it tempting .


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## ckanen2n (Jan 2, 2012)

What is wrong with Purina Pro Plan? Gio's breeder, Petite Maltese, uses it and so that is what I feed Giovanni. He was on Chicken & Rice Shredded Blend but I recently switched to the Lamb & Rice formula to see if eliminating chicken helps with tear staining. 
Also, why is grain free important?


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

Donna, I'm sorry, but for some reason was thinking you lived on the west coast and your foods weren't coming from the Diamond plant. Yes I think that Canidae was on the list.


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## LoveLucy (Mar 18, 2012)

I just went back to the Fromm site. I think I'm going to try that food with Lucy. They have both Duck and Game Bird recipes--neither have chicken! That really looks like a quality dog food, and it has a better variety of foods. I think I'll go another month on Natural Balance, and if she doesn't have any problems, I'll try switching slowly and see how it goes.


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## munchkn8835 (May 23, 2010)

Gail.....recheck.....I think the Game Bird has a little chicken.


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## LoveLucy (Mar 18, 2012)

munchkn8835 said:


> Gail.....recheck.....I think the Game Bird has a little chicken.


Thanks so much for pointing that out! You are correct--it has chicken fat and chicken meal. The Duck & Sweet potato has chicken cartilege, but that might not be so bad. (I wonder why it has that in it?)
I really would eventually like to get into a food that has some veggies, etc. in it. But maybe I'll just try adding my own fresh veggies one at a time and see if she reacts. She seems to like carrots, so once I've gotten her 2 months with no loose stools, maybe I'll start giving her a baby carrot every day and see how she reacts. Then add one more thing per month. I don't know. What I DO know is I really don't like her having those loose stool episodes. :mellow:


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

LoveLucy said:


> I just went back to the Fromm site. I think I'm going to try that food with Lucy. They have both Duck and Game Bird recipes--neither have chicken! That really looks like a quality dog food, and it has a better variety of foods. I think I'll go another month on Natural Balance, and if she doesn't have any problems, I'll try switching slowly and see how it goes.





munchkn8835 said:


> Gail.....recheck.....I think the Game Bird has a little chicken.


I think if a dog has a chicken intolerance all poultry should be avoided.

Have you actually confirmed a chicken allergy? 

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/52-...-dodds-nutriscan-test-food-sensitivities.html


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## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

Make sure to read the entire ingredient list, I believe all fromm products have some sort of chicken-some just chicken fat or liver. Just be sure to check if you are dealing with a chicken allergy.


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## LoveLucy (Mar 18, 2012)

Ladysmom said:


> I think if a dog has a chicken intolerance all poultry should be avoided.
> 
> Have you actually confirmed a chicken allergy?
> 
> http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/52-...-dodds-nutriscan-test-food-sensitivities.html


 I have not confirmed it with testing. Isn't it possible to have an intolerance to a food without having an actual allergy? Lucy was getting chicken EVERYTHING (even her snacks were diced up boiled chicken breast), and she would be good for 7-10 days, then have an episode of loose stool. She's been good now on the NB Duck and Potato LID for just shy of a month. Her other foods all had chicken as a main ingredient--first Wellness, then Natural Balance Chicken and Potato. Plus the chicken snacks, I think it might have just been chicken overload.
However, I think you may be right in terms of "better safe than sorry." If I can't figure this out through elimination, THEN I'll do the nutriscan test. I, myself, have allergies and my doctors have always told me that food allergies are the hardest to test for--that the best way to figure it out is to eliminate most foods and then add one food at a time watching for reactions. I figure it can't hurt to try this method first as she seems to be thriving other than those episodes of looseness.


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## LoveLucy (Mar 18, 2012)

shellbeme said:


> Make sure to read the entire ingredient list, I believe all fromm products have some sort of chicken-some just chicken fat or liver. Just be sure to check if you are dealing with a chicken allergy.


Thanks! That's what I thought the first time I looked at the website, then when I went back the second time I saw all the other formulas and thought they might be good. I think I'll avoid the chicken altogether. I really would like to add some more foods to her diet other than duck and potato, but perhaps using the NB LID as a base and adding my own fruits and veggies would be best. Sometimes it almost makes me yearn for the old days--when my dad fed his dog cheap kibble mixed with even cheaper canned food (I think it was called Vets). I have to say, that dog lived to a ripe old age. I think all the love she got from my dad may have made up for the bad food...


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

LoveLucy said:


> I have not confirmed it with testing. Isn't it possible to have an intolerance to a food without having an actual allergy? Lucy was getting chicken EVERYTHING (even her snacks were diced up boiled chicken breast), and she would be good for 7-10 days, then have an episode of loose stool. She's been good now on the NB Duck and Potato LID for just shy of a month. Her other foods all had chicken as a main ingredient--first Wellness, then Natural Balance Chicken and Potato. Plus the chicken snacks, I think it might have just been chicken overload.
> However, I think you may be right in terms of "better safe than sorry." If I can't figure this out through elimination, THEN I'll do the nutriscan test. I, myself, have allergies and my doctors have always told me that food allergies are the hardest to test for--that the best way to figure it out is to eliminate most foods and then add one food at a time watching for reactions. I figure it can't hurt to try this method first as she seems to be thriving other than those episodes of looseness.


What you are talking about is the elimination diet. 

Here is a great article:

Food Allergies & Food Intolerance in Dogs

My Lady had allergies and adding fish oil and colostrum really helped her.

Omega Fatty Acids: Sources, Effects, and Therapeutic Usesin Dogs


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## LoveLucy (Mar 18, 2012)

Ladysmom said:


> What you are talking about is the elimination diet.
> 
> Here is a great article:
> 
> ...


Thanks so much! I'm going to read both of those articles! It's a pain to work this all out, but will be worth it if we can solve the mystery!


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## munchkn8835 (May 23, 2010)

Well, we're going to be going back to find yet another food. Ollie won't eat the Fromm Game Bird. This is so frustrating!


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## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

munchkn8835 said:


> Well, we're going to be going back to find yet another food. Ollie won't eat the Fromm Game Bird. This is so frustrating!


Have you looked at freshpet?

Freshpet Fresh & Natural Pet Food For Dogs & Cats l Healthy Dog Treats


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

shellbeme said:


> Have you looked at freshpet?
> 
> Freshpet Fresh & Natural Pet Food For Dogs & Cats l Healthy Dog Treats



This is what i feed my fluffs. I feed Fromm and rotate the flavors and chop up some freshpet really fine and sprinkle on top and they devour it...Kelly and Noelle won't eat kibble by itself...Kelly spits it out and Noelle just looks at it. I alternate the Fromm and freshpet with Primal frozen. Donna if your concerned about grains Freshpet also has a grain free food called Freshpet Vitals and that is usually found at a pet food store in a little fridge like soda's are kept in. HTH.


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## LoveLucy (Mar 18, 2012)

Has anybody tried Pinnacle Holistic dog food?


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## tobysmom (Jan 1, 2011)

ckanen2n said:


> What is wrong with Purina Pro Plan? Gio's breeder, Petite Maltese, uses it and so that is what I feed Giovanni. He was on Chicken & Rice Shredded Blend but I recently switched to the Lamb & Rice formula to see if eliminating chicken helps with tear staining.
> Also, why is grain free important?


Ckanen2n, Purino Pro Plan ingredients are not high quality and has very little meat content compared to many dog foods that are now available. 

Ingredients: Chicken, brewers rice, whole grain wheat, poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, animal fat.

Okay, it *looks* like chicken is most abundant ingredient because it is at the top of the list, but that is fresh chicken, which is 80% water, and once it is cooked it becomes about the 4th or 5th ingredient. So the food is basically rice, wheat and "poultry by-products", (which is basically scraps of whatever is left at a meat processing plant). 

What you want to see is a specific meat *meal* at the top of the list. #1. Only #2 if it follows a fresh meat.

When you see an ingredient labeled "animal" (as in "animal fat"), that should be a red flag. Avoid any food that lists "animal" as an ingredient.

Grain-free is important if a dog is ALLERGIC to grain, but not all dogs are. My dog is not allergic to grain at all but it *is* a common allergy among dogs who have allergies.

Start reading through Dog Food Reviews | Dog Food Ratings.

All that being said, and jmo, it's not the worst thing in the world for a dog to eat a "bad" food for a while, these are by nature scavangers that can get away with a lot of poor foods, but a steady diet of poor quality food or a diet lacking in meat is probably not the best thing.


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## tobysmom (Jan 1, 2011)

munchkn8835 said:


> I'm sad b/c Ollie seemed to like it. The Grandma Lucy was great for two days and then he wouldn't touch it. Took the GL back today and we are trying Fromm Wild Fowl (I think that's what it's called) and hoping no allergic reaction. Next step, if needed, is plain old Purina ProPlan. :smilie_tischkante:


Have you tried Ziwipeak? It's airdried raw lamb based food imported from New Zealand. It's got very limited ingredients, all of which are high quality. It's expensive, but if you only have 1 malt it costs about $40/mo. They also have a Venison version.

Ingredients: Lamb Meat, Liver, Tripe, Heart and Kidney, Chicory Inulin, Green-lipped Mussel, Fish Oil, Lecithin, Kelp, Vitamins and Minerals, Parsley, Naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Copper Proteinate.


The only problem is that the ingredients are SO limited that a very long term diet of this imo would not be varied enough of a diet, so i feed it in conjunction to other things.

ZiwiPeak Daily Cuisine Grain-Free Air-Dried Dog Food

and dogs find it yum yum yummy.


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## munchkn8835 (May 23, 2010)

Ollie didn't like Fromm so I am weaning him to California Natural Grain-Free Salmon & Pea formula. Praying this works.


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## Dixie's Mama (Mar 19, 2008)

I've tried Grandma Lucy's on Dixie twice. First time was with dehydrated meat in it. She vomited it. Just recently I tried grain free premix I added the protein to. She liked it for 1 day. Wow does that stuff smell garlicky! Both kinds I mean. I don't blame any dog for not eating it.


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Dixie's Mama said:


> I've tried Grandma Lucy's on Dixie twice. First time was with dehydrated meat in it. She vomited it. Just recently I tried grain free premix I added the protein to. She liked it for 1 day. Wow does that stuff smell garlicky! Both kinds I mean. I don't blame any dog for not eating it.


None of my kids would eat it, i was surprised that Reese, Riley and Chloe wouldn't at least try it since they aren't picky eaters at all. The stuff smells so garlicky and looks awful!


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