# Breeders



## Patsy Heck (Jun 10, 2011)

Does anyone know of a reputable breeder that doesn't show their dogs or is there such a thing?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

If a breeder does not have a representative sample of their breeding shown, they are not reputable.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Ditto what JMM said.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

In my opinion, a breeder shows their dogs to determine that it is an excellent representative of the breed. The original purpose of the AKC was to select fine representatives of the breed standard. It is possible that there are some well meaning people who believe their dogs to conform to the standard, but cannot afford the expense of showing. I however, chose to get mine from a respected show breeder. In this time when there is a population explosion and so many puppy mills and breeders for profit, I believe that there are only two ways to get a companion...rescue...or in support of highly reputable show breeders.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Ditto what has been said.


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## Patsy Heck (Jun 10, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies. I saw Sonshine Acres on the web and wondered if they were a reputable breeder. I don't think they show their dogs. Sent up a red flag. But thought they could still be a good breeder. I just didn't want to single them out. Especially if they were reputable.


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## revakb2 (Sep 8, 2006)

Use the search function at top and put in Sonshine Acres.. There has lots of discussion about them on this forum.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

I went to Sonshine Acres just to see. I have to say it really creeped me out. It is an online puppy shop. By the way, Patsy, their prices are pretty much comparable to good show breeders.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Cracks me up how they say they have gotten compliments from other breeders on their 'style' going on to say about their very short nose and baby doll faces...and none of the pictures shows that at all. There are a couple of puppymills and byb's in my area that have those phrases splashed on their web sites too...and either they don't know what a baby doll face is or they hope the potential customer doesn't. And they sure have a lot of facts wrong on the Maltese breed.


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

This is way more complicated than recommending show breeders, whose dogs are judged and win ribbons based on external conformation of the dog. I call this doggy beauty pagent shows. You are more likely to get a prettier dog or one which is close to breed standards from a show breeder, but this doen't have "much" to do with the health of the dog. 

We know there are genetic population bottlenecks from popular sire syndrome, inbreeding, and closed registries with show dogs. Does that mean every show dog is going to be unhealthy. Absolutely not. Does that mean they MAY be at risk for inherited diseases specific to their breed. Yes. 

More recently, the answer to the question of who is a responsible breeder is evolving into criteria such as : Whoever has genetic tested both parents and whoever is socializing their dogs properly.

What concerns me is that we are a long way from doing genetic testing for all inheritable diseases on all breeds. 

You can look up what testing has been done on some parents of purebred dogs on OFFA.org:

http://offa.org/



I would encourage all dog owners and breeders to listen to this podcast which is an interview with Dr. Jerold Bell at Tufts. 

Click on the orange "Dr. Jerold Bell: Can the purebred dog be saved?" on the following link. The podcast is an hour long and was recorded prior to the Tufts breeding conference.


Dr. Jerold Bell: Can the purebred dog be saved? | PetConnection.com


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## Patsy Heck (Jun 10, 2011)

Thanks, again. I typed in the search engine and will stay away from Sonshine. I'm glad I joined this group.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

When I talk about responsible show breeders I am talking about people who test for and do not breed dogs with genetic defects. Breeders who know enough about genetics to carefully outcross, but line breed enough to establish a line. I used to think dog shows were a beauty contest, but I don't think you will find a dog with a luxating patella in the show ring...they would be disqualified. It isn't just about beauty it is about being true to the breed, in character as well as conformation.

I think we agree pretty much on the responsible breeder: every show breeder is not necessarily responsible. But, I have come to think that that is the* first* criteria by which you judge the people you are considering when getting a puppy.

Thanks for posting the link. I am eager to watch it later.


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

Sylie said:


> When I talk about responsible show breeders I am talking about people who test for and do not breed dogs with genetic defects. Breeders who know enough about genetics to carefully outcross, but line breed enough to establish a line. I used to think dog shows were a beauty contest, but I don't think you will find a dog with a luxating patella in the show ring...they would be disqualified. It isn't just about beauty it is about being true to the breed, in character as well as conformation.
> 
> I think we agree pretty much on the responsible breeder: every show breeder is not necessarily responsible. But, I have come to think that that is the* first* criteria by which you judge the people you are considering when getting a puppy.
> 
> Thanks for posting the link. I am eager to watch it later.


I don't think you'll actually see luxating patella in the show ring either, but that doesn't mean there won't be the potential lurking in their genes for them or their offspring.


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## socalyte (Nov 15, 2010)

Well, how interesting that Sonshine Acres comes up in our discussion, because I got my nails done this past Sunday and there was a lady getting a pedicure with a young Maltese in her lap. Of course I had to tell her about my fluffs, and asked her about hers. This is her second dog from Sonshine Acres, and she thinks they are the best. She paid $3500 for him! How do you tell someone that they paid way too much for essentially a back yard breeder dog? Her pup is five months old and weighs close to six pounds. I'm not sure how that translates to adult size, but she said she had asked for a puppy that would be about 4 to 4-1/2 pounds at maturity. When she called them back recently to say he was already bigger than that, they said to send him back. She asked what they'd do with her dog, and they said *they'd put him down!* Mind you, other than size they were perfectly happy with him and he had no other (known) issues. I absolutely could not believe it! BTW her first dog from them died from a liver shunt, which they took no responsibility for.

She said for the first dog, she went to the Sonshine Acres kennel. She said it was very clean, and the dogs were all lined up in separate cages with glass fronts in a barn that had been converted to a kennel. So much for being socialized. She wasn't allowed to touch the dogs until she made her choice. But she was very impressed with the operation because people who worked there wore lab coats. Ack!:smpullhair:


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

socalyte said:


> Well, how interesting that Sonshine Acres comes up in our discussion, because I got my nails done this past Sunday and there was a lady getting a pedicure with a young Maltese in her lap. Of course I had to tell her about my fluffs, and asked her about hers. This is her second dog from Sonshine Acres, and she thinks they are the best. She paid $3500 for him! How do you tell someone that they paid way too much for essentially a back yard breeder dog? Her pup is five months old and weighs close to six pounds. I'm not sure how that translates to adult size, but she said she had asked for a puppy that would be about 4 to 4-1/2 pounds at maturity. When she called them back recently to say he was already bigger than that, they said to send him back. She asked what they'd do with her dog, and they said *they'd put him down!* Mind you, other than size they were perfectly happy with him and he had no other (known) issues. I absolutely could not believe it! BTW her first dog from them died from a liver shunt, which they took no responsibility for.
> 
> She said for the first dog, she went to the Sonshine Acres kennel. She said it was very clean, and the dogs were all lined up in separate cages with glass fronts in a barn that had been converted to a kennel. So much for being socialized. She wasn't allowed to touch the dogs until she made her choice. But she was very impressed with the operation because people who worked there wore lab coats. Ack!:smpullhair:


OMG these people make me sick. There were several places in their site that mentioned that they ....I don't know...they mentioned, The Lord...to my mind that is taking His name in vane...yes let's advertise that we are religious so that people will trust us. Disgusting. Let's post our lovely wholesome family picture...so that people will trust us. Let's stand by our word when selling a dog we claim will be small, by offering to take him back and KILL him. 

I hope anyone who is looking for a Malt will find our posts when they google SONSHINE PUPPY STORE.


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## almitra (Apr 24, 2009)

I've heard about them before I think. They're in Oklahoma or something, right?


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## almitra (Apr 24, 2009)

If they're the one I'm remembering, I spoke to a lady back in May that said she drove all the way over there from Dallas to get a puppy, but changed her mind as soon as she got there cuz they were all waaayyyy out back from the house in cages and all had been shaved down and didn't even look like Maltese. She mentioned that there looked to be about a hundred dogs or so....ugh. She said she left without buying one. Good for her!


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

vjw said:


> More recently, the answer to the question of who is a responsible breeder is evolving into criteria such as : Whoever has genetic tested both parents and whoever is socializing their dogs properly.
> 
> What concerns me is that we are a long way from doing genetic testing for all inheritable diseases on all breeds.
> 
> ...


I agree Joy that we are a long way from doing genetic testing for all heritable diseases in dogs and cats. We're a long way away in humans, too. As of the time of the conference last week, over 400 canine genetic diseases have been identified. The good news is that there are also over 100 genetic tests available now (so about 25%) addressing those diseases with research ongoing all over the world trying to establish more genetic markers so that more tests can be developed. Nothing was mentioned at the conference but I wonder how that correlates to the ratio of tests vs. diseases in human genetics.

Thanks for sharing the link to the podcast of the interview with Dr. Bell. For anyone wanting to understand some of what is going on with breeding and genetic research, this podcast is so worth the hour spent listening to it.


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

socalyte said:


> Well, how interesting that Sonshine Acres comes up in our discussion, because I got my nails done this past Sunday and there was a lady getting a pedicure with a young Maltese in her lap. Of course I had to tell her about my fluffs, and asked her about hers. This is her second dog from Sonshine Acres, and she thinks they are the best. She paid $3500 for him! How do you tell someone that they paid way too much for essentially a back yard breeder dog? Her pup is five months old and weighs close to six pounds. I'm not sure how that translates to adult size, but she said she had asked for a puppy that would be about 4 to 4-1/2 pounds at maturity. When she called them back recently to say he was already bigger than that, they said to send him back. She asked what they'd do with her dog, and they said *they'd put him down!* Mind you, other than size they were perfectly happy with him and he had no other (known) issues. I absolutely could not believe it! BTW her first dog from them died from a liver shunt, which they took no responsibility for.
> 
> She said for the first dog, she went to the Sonshine Acres kennel. She said it was very clean, and the dogs were all lined up in separate cages with glass fronts in a barn that had been converted to a kennel. So much for being socialized. She wasn't allowed to touch the dogs until she made her choice. But she was very impressed with the operation because people who worked there wore lab coats. Ack!:smpullhair:


wow- sounds like that lady (who bought from them twice) is completely lacking in basic common sense!!

Ps- their website...they sound like crazy people (like with a few screws loose crazy) and 100% backyard breeders.


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

socalyte said:


> Well, how interesting that Sonshine Acres comes up in our discussion, because I got my nails done this past Sunday and there was a lady getting a pedicure with a young Maltese in her lap. Of course I had to tell her about my fluffs, and asked her about hers. This is her second dog from Sonshine Acres, and she thinks they are the best. She paid $3500 for him! How do you tell someone that they paid way too much for essentially a back yard breeder dog? Her pup is five months old and weighs close to six pounds. I'm not sure how that translates to adult size, but she said she had asked for a puppy that would be about 4 to 4-1/2 pounds at maturity. When she called them back recently to say he was already bigger than that, they said to send him back. She asked what they'd do with her dog, and they said *they'd put him down!* Mind you, other than size they were perfectly happy with him and he had no other (known) issues. I absolutely could not believe it! BTW her first dog from them died from a liver shunt, which they took no responsibility for.
> 
> She said for the first dog, she went to the Sonshine Acres kennel. She said it was very clean, and the dogs were all lined up in separate cages with glass fronts in a barn that had been converted to a kennel. So much for being socialized. She wasn't allowed to touch the dogs until she made her choice. But she was very impressed with the operation because people who worked there wore lab coats. Ack!:smpullhair:


They'd put him down, if she took him back...... OMG!!!

They wore lab coats...gee that always impresses me... sad ,very sad.


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