# In's & Out's of contacting breeders



## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

I've been meaning to start a thread for some time now, but the other thread in this section really got me thinking about this again. And I don't want to hijack her thread. I'm really hoping those who have some insight on this would help me out. REALLY would like the input of the breeders on this forum.

I've been mentioning for awhile now that I would like to have another little girl that I can take to the store with me and Jett. I feel bad for Jett when I'm having to dress and undress him all the time to show girl outfits to customers. Also, when something's not moving at the store, I put it on Jett and then it sells! lol...I had him in his cute little ToniMari flannel penguin PJ's on Sat. for Pajama Day. I always sell twice as many girl clothes as boy clothes and I really do carry a lot of boy clothes. But twice I had customers want to buy the boy pj's Jett had on instead of the super adorable girl ones that I had ordered twice as many of. I had to put the girl pj's on Jett in order to convince them how precious the girl pj's were! So now I have a legitimate excuse to get another girl instead of just the incredible puppy fever I'm having! However, I do not think it would be responsible of me to get a 3rd until I felt my business were really thriving so that I can properly care for 3 in case of a medical emg. I've heard people on this board say that you should start contacting breeders at least a year in advance to let them know what you are looking for. I have very specific things I'm looking for in a puppy with very valid reasons. I need a puppy with the correct temperament to be in a store with tons of people and other dogs. I know going to a reputable breeder will assure me of a good temperament in a puppy. However, I also know that there are different temperaments in certain lines and even within the same litter. I can not go through the heartache of having another fluff not be happy at the store. Also, it breaks my heart when I have Zoe & Jett out together and he gets all the attention because he's smaller and has more of the baby doll face. Zoe knows when she's not getting the same attention and she tries very hard with adorable little tricks to get some attention. But if she doesn't succeed, she can do some things that aren't pleasant in order to get attention. So I really want one that looks very similar to Jett and is similar in size since they will be together at the store. I make sure I take Zoe out with me places alone so she gets tons of attention from people too.

I've contacted a couple of breeders who seem to have the look I like and have heard good things about their lines temperaments. I always start out (via email) with an introduction of who I am, how I've heard of them, about my two fluffs (with pics) and why I'm looking for a 3rd. I'm very clear about the specifics I need in a little girl and why. I'm also up front with the fact that I'm not ready for one yet but hopefully will be in a year or more and why. I even state that I would prefer a slightly older puppy (really think a puppy is the route to go via retiree so she can grow up in the store) so that she can be fully vaccinated since she will be in contact with other dogs at the store. And I ask that if they find me to be a good candidate for one of their puppies, to please keep me and my specific needs in mind in the future. Twice now I was contacted right away because they had a little girl who had been held back for show potential but things did not develop quite as they hoped and now they were going to place as a pet. First of all, this is sooooo amazing to me because when I was looking for my first, not one reputable breeder ever got back to me. That's why I ended up going with a byb for Zoe. Of course I had no idea what a byb was then. These breeders I contacted have been very kind to me but when I ask specific things about the puppy's temperament, I can tell she does not have the layed back, easy going, more submissive temperament I'm looking for. And I again tell them I'm not ready yet, but will hopefully be ready in a year. I get the feeling that they don't know how to deal with a request like that. So am I going about this wrong? How should I be contacting a breeder? Am I being way too premature? I'll be honest, there was one little girl I wanted so badly I actually cried when I had to say no. I was not 100% sure her temperament would be right and the breeder didn't seem to be the type to say, her temperament would be good for these reasons, or her temperament would not be good for these reasons. And again, just because I can purchase one, doesn't mean I feel safe in the fact that I will be able to provide for any unexpected emg's. until my store has been established longer and is more stable. I'm still in the stage of my 1 1/2 yr. old business where I'm putting everything back into the business. Am I expecting too much from a breeder in helping me with temperaments?

Any helpful advice will be greatly appreciated.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Crystal it sound like you are going about it just fine. I don't know about looking a year in advance, but that all depends on whether a breeder has a waiting list. It would be hard for me to start looking and then have to wait a year to finally have one.

I started looking about 6 months in advance. Or so I thought. Like you, I was looking for a specific temperament in a puppy. I knew I wanted a laid back girl. After only 3 months of looking, the perfect little girl in my price range became available. I went for it, even though I was sure I wouldn't be ready for at least another 3 months. It just felt right at that time, and it worked out great. It was meant to be and a perfect fit.

I wish you the best and I hope you find the perfect girl puppy just right for you.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

When somebody contacts me about getting a puppy a year or so in the future, it's impossible for me to say that I will have exactly the type of puppy that a buyer is looking for, so I guess it's safe to say that I 'live in the now.' And I think that is the same for a lot of breeders, esp those who breed first for the show ring and what doesn't make it for show is placed as a pet. If I have exactly the type of puppy that a person is looking for available, you can be sure I'll say 'hey, i do have this pup for a pet home' and throw that option out there, even though they tell me they aren't ready for one now. It can be too difficult to say to someone 'oh sure, I'll have what you're looking for in a year' because you just don't know. 

I don't think there is a wrong or a right way to go about it for a future addition. You are looking for a super adaptable puppy and they aren't all like that, I know. I would just say keep your list and when it's closer to the time you are ready for one, contact the breeders again. As I said, many breeders live in the now so it's not that they don't know how to handle your request, it's just a bit more like they can't predict the future.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Narrow your choice to just a couple and keep in touch (drop an occasional e-mail reminding them you spoke and to keep you in mind for litters around this time). 

Not all breeders are great evaluators of temperament or able to predict adult behavior based on puppy characteristics. Doesn't make them a bad breeder, it is simply a skill that not everyone has. For your needs, it is essential the breeder does have that ability. In my experience with border collies, the breeder often had someone else come in to evaluate the dogs for working ability. Nothing wrong with using the expert, but you are unlikely to find a Maltese breeder doing that. This is one more thing to narrow down your choices.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Narrow your choice to just a couple and keep in touch (drop an occasional e-mail reminding them you spoke and to keep you in mind for litters around this time). 

Not all breeders are great evaluators of temperament or able to predict adult behavior based on puppy characteristics. Doesn't make them a bad breeder, it is simply a skill that not everyone has. For your needs, it is essential the breeder does have that ability. In my experience with border collies, the breeder often had someone else come in to evaluate the dogs for working ability. Nothing wrong with using the expert, but you are unlikely to find a Maltese breeder doing that. This is one more thing to narrow down your choices.


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## Tanner's Mom (May 27, 2005)

"Also, it breaks my heart when I have Zoe & Jett out together and he gets all the attention because he's smaller and has more of the baby doll face. Zoe knows when she's not getting the same attention and she tries very hard with adorable little tricks to get some attention."

I don't have any advice except to say Aw, poor little Zoe. Bless her heart. Tanner knows just how she feels. Tanner weighs 8#s and Frankie weighs 5#s. Frankie is a cutie and he's tiny & everybody makes a fuss over him. So I give Tanner extra kisses and hugs and hope he's OK and hope that sleeping right next to me at night makes up for it. Tanner says "It OK Zoe, you mommy wub you berry much".


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Feb 10 2010, 06:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884293


> Crystal it sound like you are going about it just fine. I don't know about looking a year in advance, but that all depends on whether a breeder has a waiting list. It would be hard for me to start looking and then have to wait a year to finally have one.
> 
> I started looking about 6 months in advance. Or so I thought. Like you, I was looking for a specific temperament in a puppy. I knew I wanted a laid back girl. After only 3 months of looking, the perfect little girl in my price range became available. I went for it, even though I was sure I wouldn't be ready for at least another 3 months. It just felt right at that time, and it worked out great. It was meant to be and a perfect fit.
> 
> I wish you the best and I hope you find the perfect girl puppy just right for you.[/B]


Thanks. That is exactly how it happened with Jett. Wasn't even looking for another Malt when I saw him at the NMR picnic. Course I fell head over heels in love.

With Zoe, I was actively searching. And with her, it just felt right. She may not have the correct temperament for the store, but she truly has a personality that I adore. :wub: 

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Feb 10 2010, 07:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884301


> When somebody contacts me about getting a puppy a year or so in the future, it's impossible for me to say that I will have exactly the type of puppy that a buyer is looking for, so I guess it's safe to say that I 'live in the now.' And I think that is the same for a lot of breeders, esp those who breed first for the show ring and what doesn't make it for show is placed as a pet. If I have exactly the type of puppy that a person is looking for available, you can be sure I'll say 'hey, i do have this pup for a pet home' and throw that option out there, even though they tell me they aren't ready for one now. It can be too difficult to say to someone 'oh sure, I'll have what you're looking for in a year' because you just don't know.
> 
> I don't think there is a wrong or a right way to go about it for a future addition. You are looking for a super adaptable puppy and they aren't all like that, I know. I would just say keep your list and when it's closer to the time you are ready for one, contact the breeders again. As I said, many breeders live in the now so it's not that they don't know how to handle your request, it's just a bit more like they can't predict the future.[/B]


Guess I should clarify that the couple of breeders I've contacted I have said that I wouldn't be ready for at least a year. And that the correct temperament is so important to me that I'm willing to wait as long as it takes and to please keep me in mind should they have one that would fit my needs. Does that make a bit more sense?

QUOTE (JMM @ Feb 10 2010, 07:15 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884304


> Narrow your choice to just a couple and keep in touch (drop an occasional e-mail reminding them you spoke and to keep you in mind for litters around this time).
> 
> Not all breeders are great evaluators of temperament or able to predict adult behavior based on puppy characteristics. Doesn't make them a bad breeder, it is simply a skill that not everyone has. For your needs, it is essential the breeder does have that ability. In my experience with border collies, the breeder often had someone else come in to evaluate the dogs for working ability. Nothing wrong with using the expert, but you are unlikely to find a Maltese breeder doing that. This is one more thing to narrow down your choices.[/B]


Thanks. I hadn't thought about keeping in contact. Guess I should start PM'ing a few in the know to ask about breeders who do have the ability to evaluate a puppy's temperament. And thanks for validating my research as to needing a specific temperament. Too many don't realize that just because a puppy comes from a great breeder, doesn't mean they all have the right temperament for certain things.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

QUOTE (Tanner's Mom @ Feb 10 2010, 07:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884309


> "Also, it breaks my heart when I have Zoe & Jett out together and he gets all the attention because he's smaller and has more of the baby doll face. Zoe knows when she's not getting the same attention and she tries very hard with adorable little tricks to get some attention."
> 
> I don't have any advice except to say Aw, poor little Zoe. Bless her heart. Tanner knows just how she feels. Tanner weighs 8#s and Frankie weighs 5#s. Frankie is a cutie and he's tiny & everybody makes a fuss over him. So I give Tanner extra kisses and hugs and hope he's OK and hope that sleeping right next to me at night makes up for it. Tanner says "It OK Zoe, you mommy wub you berry much".[/B]


lol...Zoe also get's the 'preferred spot' next to me when we sleep. And my reasoning is the same as yours. I'm so glad I'm not the only nut on this board who has felt badly for one of our babies when they don't get the same kind of attention. :grouphug:


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

I agree with Stacy. As a breeder, I don't know for sure what I will have in 6 months or in a year. It is kinda in the "now" time frame. I bred 2 girls and neither one had pups. (?) I am hesitant to breed right now because of the economy. And not to mention AKC has a fit when you breed more than 7 litters in a year. Not that I do. Had it happen when my mom was watching my dogs when I was recuperating from major back surgery.  

I have had a few people contact me wanting a specific stud dogs girls. I can accomodate that if they are really interested and are really planning on buying the puppy. How many times are breeder's left holding the bag? You can keep only so many dogs. 

I plan litters in advance of about 3 months. A girl only comes in twice a year and you have to know when she is coming in so you can plan which dog you are going to breed her to. There is a lot involved in planning, orchestrating and carrying out having puppies. More than you care to know.

Some breeder's have what is called "kennel blindness". They don't really "see" what they are producing or have produced. I have been accused of over critiquing my dogs. In fact she said "you are really hard on your dogs." I don't want to sell a puppy to someone they are not prepared for. I did that recently and I felt so bad about it. It was so common for me, I forgot it wasn't for someone else.  

As Jackie said stick with one or two breeder's and stay in touch with them. Send an occational e-mail to remind them that you are interested in a puppy in what ever time frame you are wanting it. 

Have fun searching for your new puppy and meeting new people.
Tina 

PS Your not alone in how you feel about dealing with lots of breeder's. There is another person looking and getting all kinds of answers but not to her questions.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Hi Crystal,

Like Stacy, I live in the moment to some degree, because I really only breed when I want something for myself. I don't have a waiting list, don't take deposits, and don't make promises that I may not be able to fulfill. But I do have a list of people/friends who know me, know my dogs, may not be ready to add a puppy to their life right now but have asked me to keep them informed if I should have a litter in the future. And I'm happy to do that.

About evaluating temperament -- I admittedly would have a tough time with this, not because I don't know or can't recognize the temperament of my puppies as puppies, but because they could potentially change as they mature depending in part on how they are being raised after they leave my house. The other sticky part for me would be knowing that we are on the same page as to your interpretation of what you are looking for vs. my interpretation of what you are looking for. I mentioned in the other thread that I had a litter last spring, 3 boys and a girl. All of them had the same temperament and it is what I can only describe as bombproof. They were and still are happy, outgoing, active, loving, playful, energetic, inquisitive little dogs. When you say you want laid back and able to adapt to life in the store, I'm not sure whether the temperament of these puppies would be a good fit. I think they'd be perfect in that nothing freaks them out, they love people, they love other dogs, etc., and with some basic good manners training they would undoubtedly make great runway models. :biggrin: BUT, I'd never call them laid back. My idea of laid back is a dog who is quiet, polite, and willing to lay in their bed all day, taking in all the comings and goings, but not running out to participate. While mine wouldn't whine if kept confined behind a store counter, I can guarantee that they'd really enjoy time out and about to check things out. So what's tough for me is trying to figure out if you'd call my puppies laid back or cuckoo? This is why I always encourage people to go to local dog shows, see what's around locally, and get a sense for yourself of what you are attracted to.

There are some folks on this forum who have met some of my dogs. To any of you who have met mine, feel free to jump in here and give your own assessment of their temperaments, please call it as you see it. My feelings won't be hurt and it would be a good learning experience for me to know how others would describe my dogs.

MaryH


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

My definition of laid back is non-reactive. 

In other words, she doesn't freak out from loud noises, strangers coming and going, she isn't uber-hyper and excitable, loud or nervous, and she travels well. In other words, a dog that rolls with things, rather than reacts in a stressful manner to every little change. 

Someone else might have a different definition.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

Crystal,

I think you are doing a lot of the right things. But as Jackie mentioned getting it to be an ongoing conversation might be the best approach. Most breeders do not live a year in advance, but they can get to know you and allow you to get to know them by starting things off a year or so out. If you establish a rapport with someone and they know exactly what you are looking for, you will likely be the first call they make when they have a girl that would be a good fit for you. 

QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 07:54 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884327


> Hi Crystal,
> 
> Like Stacy, I live in the moment to some degree, because I really only breed when I want something for myself. I don't have a waiting list, don't take deposits, and don't make promises that I may not be able to fulfill. But I do have a list of people/friends who know me, know my dogs, may not be ready to add a puppy to their life right now but have asked me to keep them informed if I should have a litter in the future. And I'm happy to do that.
> 
> ...


I did meet the entire litter Mary is talking about and yes they all shared a similar temperment. I was even lucky enough to spend over a week with one of those boys and mom and I could not stop talking about how impressed we were by his outgoing, friendly, well-mannered and "bomb-proof" nature. 

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Feb 10 2010, 08:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884334


> My definition of laid back is non-reactive.
> 
> In other words, she doesn't freak out from loud noises, strangers coming and going, she isn't uber-hyper and excitable, loud or nervous, and she travels well. In other words, a dog that rolls with things, rather than reacts in a stressful manner to every little change.
> 
> Someone else might have a different definition.[/B]


Non-reactive would be a nice way to narrow down the idea here as laid-back is kind of a squishy word for me. I mean Cadeau is a nervous sort. He gets highly keyed up in many situations. Cadie is a more calm presence. Cacia is a more excitable girl, but without the reactiveness that Cadeau sometimes displays.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Feb 10 2010, 08:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884334


> My definition of laid back is non-reactive.
> 
> In other words, she doesn't freak out from loud noises, strangers coming and going, she isn't uber-hyper and excitable, loud or nervous, and she travels well. In other words, a dog that rolls with things, rather than reacts in a stressful manner to every little change.
> 
> Someone else might have a different definition.[/B]


That is my definition as well. I'm looking for a non-reactive, relaxed, calm puppy. To elaborate even further, I guess all I can do is compare to Jett's temperament since he does well at the store. He's not perfect by any measure. I got him when he was a year old through rescue. I don't believe he was socialized to larger dogs or dogs of any other color but white. So that's why I'm wanting an older puppy rather than a retiree. However, Jett's temperament is such that I can easily get his focus again when he displays any type of fear aggression with larger dogs or dark dogs and I am working with him with the help of our trainer. He also had tremendous separation anxiety when I got him. He has come a very long way since he joined our family. But I think he will always need to be with a human or another fluff instead of left alone for the rest of his life. He's ok with me leaving him alone behind the sales counter for short periods of time now. He's laid back in not only the above mentioned way that Susan described, but he is ok with allowing Zoe to be boss. Her little attitudes just don't bother him. He will stand up for himself when he deems the cause necessary. lol Which is good because Zoe has no use at all for a super submissive dog that she can bully. He is not submissive to the point that he does not teach puppies proper puppy behavior either. He is playful but not hyper. He's inquisitive and outgoing. But he's also happy being in my lap or his bed when behind the sales counter. Of course he's happiest when allowed to go out to greet customers and little fluffs. A puppy that some may think is submissive and calm may really in truth be very fearful and timid instead of inquisitive and outgoing. He rarely barks when people come into the store. He does bark when people come to the house, but only a few alert barks. His little body goes completely limp when you pick him up and hold him. He will drape himself over your lap, mold to the curves of your body if you're standing while holding him, and will often maneuver himself when sleeping in your arms so that his tummy is up and you're holding him like a baby. My Zoe is stiff as a board when you pick her up and will never allow herself to ever be in a position of having her tummy exposed while being held.

I totally agree that training, socialization, and environment also play huge roles in *personality* as they grow up. But the best example I can think of is the dogs that are selected to be service dogs. They are evaluated on *temperament*. They may be very well trained, properly socialized and in the best environments until they reach the age that they go to be trained and then tested. But not all pass the final test and it usually boils down to temperament. Maybe Jackie can explain it better. I'm still learning myself. Therapy dogs also are evaluated on temperament. They can not be reactive to loud noises, new people, other dogs, etc.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

QUOTE (CloudClan @ Feb 10 2010, 08:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884344


> Crystal,
> 
> I think you are doing a lot of the right things. But as Jackie mentioned getting it to be an ongoing conversation might be the best approach. Most breeders do not live a year in advance, but they can get to know you and allow you to get to know them by starting things off a year or so out. If you establish a rapport with someone and they know exactly what you are looking for, you will likely be the first call they make when they have a girl that would be a good fit for you.
> 
> QUOTE (MaryH @ Feb 10 2010, 07:54 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884327





> Hi Crystal,
> 
> Like Stacy, I live in the moment to some degree, because I really only breed when I want something for myself. I don't have a waiting list, don't take deposits, and don't make promises that I may not be able to fulfill. But I do have a list of people/friends who know me, know my dogs, may not be ready to add a puppy to their life right now but have asked me to keep them informed if I should have a litter in the future. And I'm happy to do that.
> 
> ...


I did meet the entire litter Mary is talking about and yes they all shared a similar temperment. I was even lucky enough to spend over a week with one of those boys and mom and I could not stop talking about how impressed we were by his outgoing, friendly, well-mannered and "bomb-proof" nature. 

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Feb 10 2010, 08:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=884334


> My definition of laid back is non-reactive.
> 
> In other words, she doesn't freak out from loud noises, strangers coming and going, she isn't uber-hyper and excitable, loud or nervous, and she travels well. In other words, a dog that rolls with things, rather than reacts in a stressful manner to every little change.
> 
> Someone else might have a different definition.[/B]


Non-reactive would be a nice way to narrow down the idea here as laid-back is kind of a squishy word for me. I mean Cadeau is a nervous sort. He gets highly keyed up in many situations. Cadie is a more calm presence. Cacia is a more excitable girl, but without the reactiveness that Cadeau sometimes displays.
[/B][/QUOTE]

EXACTLY! Non-reactive with a calm presence. I think you just need to send Cadie to me. :wub:


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Is it a possibility to get a service dog? I think they come already trained....might be more, but your CPA might let you expense some of it...


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## mom2bijou (Oct 19, 2006)

Well first I have to say how excited I am that Z&J will be getting a sibling in the future! 

I think what everyone suggested is great advice. Narrow it down to a few breeders and keep in contact with them and establish reportire (sp?) over time. When I contacted Joyce(Marcris) I never in a million years thought she would have a puppy available. I thought she would have a year waiting list but turned out she had Emma ready to go home in 3 weeks. Even though I originally wanted to wait I jumped on the opportunity, however, my original intentions were to contact Joyce a year prior, get to know her, have her get to know me, and wait until she had the right pup for me. 

I think laying it all out there as you are is important, saying your timeline is a year is also important. Just keep in contact and be your sweet self Crystal...any breeder would be lucky to deal with you. 

One last thing....temperment I imagine is tough to call. I mean I have to go thru so much training w/Benny and he is still reactive. Emma, on the other hand, never had any formal training and she is a total love social bug. I didn't do anything different with her. I do however wish when I got Benny I had him in puppy daycare/kindergarten to better socialize him as a puppy. I often think that would have made a difference in regards to his reactive issues. My advice...socialize from the beginning!


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Sounds like our SM experts are giving you great advice  I am excited for you looking for a new baby girl. From what I perceive here though, the boys are easier and more calm overall, so that may make it a bit more difficult. 

It also could be a bit hard because even if the pup is outgoing and not overly reactive at the breeders doesn't necessarily mean it will like the shop atmosphere. Best of luck on finding your precious new baby :tender:


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm interested in this thread too. I'm hoping to get a Maltese later this year (mid-December would be perfect probably) so if all is going as I hope, I'll probably contact breeders this summer to start looking. I may be able to get one a little earlier or of course am willing to wait a little longer, but probably toward the end of the year is what I'm planning for right now. I was thinking if I contact them this summer I ought to have a better idea of if I'll be able to get a maltese this year for sure by that time...and that will allow a little time for us to get to know each other and for me to tell the breeder what I'm looking for.


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## cleooscar (May 28, 2008)

I don't know much about breeders and will leave that to the experts to advise. I just want to say that when I got Napoleon last spring he was calm, laid back, non-reactive and easy going. As he gets older (he's 14 months now), he became more outgoing, playful, naughty at times and will bark at strange noises. We took him to socializing classes when he was about 5 months and he was very shy and quiet. Then we took him to basic obedience about 3 months later and it was like night and day. He was outgoing and social and wanted to greet everyone and every dog. We were concerned at the beginning that he was going to be way too timid but no such worries now. I've owned 5 Malts in the past 20 years and 3 other dogs before that and I notice that they didn't all stay exactly the same temperament as when they were puppies. I think making sure that they're well socialized and trained will help a lot.


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