# Daisy went to the Vet today.



## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

I took Daisy for some walks last weekend(Sat and Sun) and noticed on Tuesday that she was nursing her hind legs. She would lift them up occasionally but would walk just fine. The lifting of the leg would only occur when she was in a resting standing position and then she would be fine and then she will start walking just fine. So concerned I called the vet, we originally thought that it could be a sprain and set an appointment for him to look at her today. After looking at her today he came to the conclusion that it was not a spray. He examined her, took xrays and examined her again. His conclusion is that she has Luxating Patellas in both hind quarters which are a grade 1. The Vet said that the lifting of the legs could be caused because of the knee cap sliding out of place and it feeling uncomfortable so she will lift her leg, but once put back down that it slid back so she continued on with her walking, running or playing. I started her on hip and joint medication. I asked him if it could be because of either the walk or her being active and he said it was neither. He said that it was because of the way her bones are growing so it is congenital.  I am besides myself. 

Outside of her starting the vitamins is there anything else that I can do to keep it from getting worse? She is not allowed to jump onto or off of things and the Vet said that I should not limit her walking or running around because it is good for her to strengthen her muscles. But I can't help but wonder if is anything else that I can do.


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh Debbie, i'm so sorry to hear about Daisy. I'm not sure of anything you can do other than what your doing. Just wanted to give you and Daisy a :hugging:


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## frankie (Mar 6, 2008)

i am so sorry to hear that little daisy had this.


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## mimi2 (Mar 29, 2005)

Sorry to hear about Daisy's patellas, but I don't think it has much to do with her pedigree. My Ruby is from Chrisman's lines and I had to have her patella fixed when she was a little over a year. She had tried to jump up onto my lap, didn't make it and fell backwards landing weird. She did have a grade 1 when she was examined at about 8 months of age when we were at the vet for a routine exam. When the accident happened I think the orthopedic surgeon graded it at a 3 or 4 and it had to be fixed so she had the surgery and has been fine ever since. We now have doggie steps up to our couch. :biggrin:


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## sophie (Jul 9, 2006)

I'm so sorry to hear that you and especially Daisy are having to deal with this. I will keep her in my prayers - and you as well. Hugs,

Linda


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

Debbie she will be fine start giving her the glucosamine and the chondroitin. That's interesting that the vet said it won't pop back in. Mia is the opposite when they palpate her the vet puts it back in place and it won't stay. But remember she has 3 on one knee and a 4 on the other and runs around like a crazy fluff.  You should see improvement soon after she starts with the supplements. Give her a hug for me!!! 


EDIT: I see it does go back in place. :blush:


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Due to the fact nobody tests for it and uses a database to help breed it out, LP is everywhere in Maltese. Essentially like hip dysplasia before breeders began testing and breeding based on those results. 

I would get a referral to a boarded surgeon for a second opinion. If her knees are luxating on their own, every time they move in and out it is wearing on the joint and creating arthritis. You can try physical therapy to help strengthen the muscles since her knees are low grade. Your surgeon should be able to refer you to a physical therapist. 

The ortho surgeons I have worked with have all agreed that if they are luxating on their own, it is better to do surgery (which itself interrupts the joint capsule and makes some mild changes) than allowing the joint to erode and have degenerative disease. Also, the unstable joint predisposes the dog to cruciate injuries. A tear to the cruciate also creates arthritis. Surgery early is better than surgery after a lot of arthritis has set in.


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## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

Thank you everyone for the well wishes for Daisy. JMM thank you for the information. I will call her vet Monday to get the contact info to a ortho surgeon here in Eastern PA and see about having an appointment set up so that the ortho surgeon can look at her.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I agree with JMM. Unless your dog is not the active type and doesn't jump or run, it will most likely
get worse since it is slipping in and out daily. Unfortunately subluxating patellas are hereditary and
are somewhat common in toy breeds although one should not anticipate it being acceptable to have
it in their breeding program and should do all they can to breed it out of the lines.


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

Oh no, I'm so sorry. Poor Daisy.  I've always heard it can be genetic or from injury. With both legs affected, I'd guess it's genetic. But I'm just guessing, I'm in no way an expert though. :grouphug:


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

It likely has nothing to do with her pedigree. 

You can learn a lot from this informative post by Tonia from Rhapsody:


http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7167
Post #83 - copied below:

The study of "Genetics" is a very incomplete science. We cant stop ALL kinds of known hereditary problems in people, and billions and billions of dollars are spent in medical research. In dogs, there just isnt the money, time or interest to be able to make such a complicated issue that simple. Researchers cannot identify that luxating patellas ARE in fact hereditary let alone be able to advise us on how to remove the health issue from our breeding programs.

"simply fix the parents"? There is nothing simple about "fixing" the parents to try and eliminate health issues. There would be no dogs left to breed. Patellas are just ONE of hundreds of issues that we have to keep in mind when breeding dogs. I, for one, am MUCH more worried about the life threatening ones first and for most.

I have the benefit of having been not only a breeder of a toy breed but I also was a pet groomer for 8 years, worked at a vet for 3 years, as well as being a Professional Handler specializing in toy breeds for the last 10 years. I have seen and cared for many more dogs than I could ever own in 10 lifetimes.

OK ... let me give you an example of what is involved in trying to identify the root of just one health issue .....

Patellas ...
1) Is it genetic or environmental? How do you know if the dog has a luxating patella because it is of genetic orgin? Short of surgically opening the dogs leg up and checking the depth of the groove of the patella, I do not know the answer to this question. You can GUESS base on age of the dog at the point of diagnosis? Or the history of the ancestors? NO ONE can watch their dog every moment. How do you know that the dog didnt injury itself? I have had knee injuries and trust me, the first time I injured my knee it was merely a simple twist. Did an injury make the dog predisposed to a weakness in the joint or was it a genetic predisposition? See the vagueness of this situation?

2) I have seen two dogs both with no luxation be bred together and produce a whole litter of dogs with a luxating patellas. I have seen two dogs both with luxating patellas be bred togther and produce a whole litter with good patellas.

3) Then there is the whole question of age or first diagnosis. At what point do you make the cutoff age? Will I keep no dogs in my breeding program that have evidence of luxation before one year of age? two years of age? three years of age? Ever in their life? If you breed a dog and have offspring and then the parent shows evidence of luxation after the fact do you neuter the parent and the offspring? Even if the parent has produced other puppies with good knees? What about the other puppies? Do you neuter only full brother and sisters? Or all offspring?

4) Grading patellas is done by physical exam. the Othopedic Foundation For Animals has a grading list by which vet grade patellas. It is subjective. SOOOOOO ... this means different vets can exam the same dog and come up with different results. Think having 20 people look at the same object and descibe it and you will have 20 different desciptions. I have had a BOARD CERTIFIED specialist tell me that a dog had good patellas, when I had cared for the dog for 6 months and had its patellas pop EVERYTIME I groomed it. Once I pointed that out ... they further examed the dog ... let it walk around picked it back up and the patella was completely out on one leg.

5) There are sereval environmental situations that can help in the break down of the patellar joint. Cage grate, slick floors, excessive jumping, pacing, etc etc etc

I could go on and on but you get my point. There are so many factors in breeding dogs that you have to pick your battles and set guidelines in your head.

For me the cutoff on patellas is usually 1 year of age, but I have had 2 dogs with an injury before 12 months that had a grade 1 patella and I kept them in my breeding program. I have had dogs show a patella issue at 2 years of age and not kept them in my breeding program. I try to keep family history, the reaction of the specific dog to the luxation (does the luxation bother the dog), and there medical history in mind in making my decisions.

Al made his decision not just based on this one affected dog. He did it based on many issues. If he and his vet had felt that the dog would be destined to surgery, the dog would be much cheaper or he would have the patellas fixed first.

The Othropedic Foundation For Animals is an organization to help breeders in eradicating orthopedic health issues in animals. Hip Displaysia has been indepthly studied and they still do not completely understand the hereditary nature of the issue. Patella certification is a newer study, but so few utilize it. Please visit www.offa.org and see for yourself. There are 65 dogs under Maltese that have had their patellas certified and one that submitted their results even though the results were not normal. 66 dogs over a 10 year span. There are about 6 or 7 breeders who have submitted their results. That is it.

Please test this yourself. Go to an Orthopedic Specialist and have your dog's knees certified. I think you would be surprised by the statisical results.


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## HEINI (Feb 4, 2007)

*oh no, debbie. I am VERY VERY sorry to hear this. 
good you noticed the change straight away and went to the vet and now you can react and do what best you can do.

good luck, much strenght and health.

:grouphug: *


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## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

Thank you KC for that info. I am trying to find all the information regarding this so that I can make sure that I know everything about it so that I can battle it head on and Daisy can have a pain/discomfort free life. The vet did say that it was congenital though and def not caused due to an injury because there is no injury.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Dr. Jaimie wrote a great explanation about luxating patellas that is pinned in this section:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=41536

As Tonia/Rhapsody said, the cut off age for determining if the luxating patellas were congenital or not is one year. 

Does Daisy's health guarantee cover congenital conditions for the first year?


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## thinkpink (Sep 25, 2004)

I'm sorry to hear about Daisy. You sound like you're right on top of it though. Bella's vet mentioned her having the same problem also but so far it hasn't hindered her in any way. Stay positive and give Daisy and extra kiss from me and Bella.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Debbie, I am so broken hearted to hear this :smcry: :smcry: I know your baby girl will be okay, but I know how much you love and worry about her.

Debbie, when Kara had her LP's her ortho doc said to make sure all floor are carpted. We even put down ones now, because we know sometimes the breed is so prone to this.

I am so sorry :smcry: :smcry:


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## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Mar 14 2009, 06:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745266


> Dr. Jaimie wrote a great explanation about luxating patellas that is pinned in this section:
> 
> http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=41536
> 
> ...


She does have a health guarantee and it covers congenital conditions but not luxating patellas. Honestly, I don't care about the guarantee because it will only replace the puppy if there is an issue and I do not want to replace Daisy. She is irreplaceable in my book, lol. I am here just trying to learn all that I can about this disease so that I can better care for my little princess.


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

Debbie, I dont have any experience with this but I just wanted to say I am really sorry about Daisy's patella condition...

You are such a great mommy! I will keep you and Daisy in my thoughts and prayers. Wishing her the best. :grouphug: :grouphug:


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## kathym (Aug 5, 2006)

DEBBIE THE MAIN THING MY VET SAID WHEN I FOUND OUT ABOUT BACI'S KNEES IS NO JUMPING ON OR OFF THE COUCH OR BED I HAVE STEPS ,NOT THAT HE ALWAYS USE THEM BUT IT DOES HELP.I'M ALSO GIVING HIM COSEQUIN IT CAME HIGHLY RECOMMENDED FOR THIS PROBLEM.
I AM SO SORRY TO HEAR THAT BABY DAISY HAS LP IN BOTH KNEES .


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## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

QUOTE (kathym @ Mar 14 2009, 07:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745315


> DEBBIE THE MAIN THING MY VET SAID WHEN I FOUND OUT ABOUT BACI'S KNEES IS NO JUMPING ON OR OFF THE COUCH OR BED I HAVE STEPS ,NOT THAT HE ALWAYS USE THEM BUT IT DOES HELP.I'M ALSO GIVING HIM COSEQUIN IT CAME HIGHLY RECOMMENDED FOR THIS PROBLEM.
> I AM SO SORRY TO HEAR THAT BABY DAISY HAS LP IN BOTH KNEES .[/B]



Cosequin? Can I find that on PetMeds? The sup that I bought for Daisy is this. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...mp;pcatid=19868

Daisy does have stairs for both the couch in the lower level and main level and she has stairs for our bed. 


Again, thank you everyone for all the support regarding Daisy and this condition. If there are any other advice regarding how to further care for this outside of what I am doing now and the call to the ortho on Monday for his/her evaluation of it, I would really appreciate hearing them. Like I said, I really want to learn all that I can about this so that I can better care for my little girl in the mean time for now.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Cosequin is wonderful! It has done an amazing job with Lady's severe arthritis!

http://www.entirelypets.com/cos90tab.html?...__utmk=42850598


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## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Mar 14 2009, 08:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745348


> Cosequin is wonderful! It has done an amazing job with Lady's severe arthritis!
> 
> http://www.entirelypets.com/cos90tab.html?...__utmk=42850598[/B]


Great, thank you for letting me know. :hugging: I will order that right now. Will it be ok to mix with the other sup that I listed in my other thread? What dose should I give her?? She is 4.3lbs


**** edited to add****

I just compared the two and see that they both have the same ingrediants but the one I ordered has more to it, granted it seems that the amount of the same ingrediants differ. Which do you all think would be best out of the two to give Daisy??? I already have the Joint care. Please let me know. 

*Joint Care Premium 3 Small Dog, 85 Tablets *- This is what I have right now.
Each Tablet Contains: Glucosamine, 100 mg; Perna canaliculus, 50 mg; Chondroitin, 25 mg; MSM, 25 mg; Vitamin C, 25 mg; Bromelain, 18.75 mg; Quercetin, 12.5 mg; Boswellia extract, 6 mg; Soybean and Avocado oil (ASU) extract, 2.5 mg; Vitamin E, 2.5 IU; Manganese, 0.25 mg.

*Cosequin®*
Cosequin Regular 
Glucosamine 250 mg 
Chondroitin 200 mg 
Vitamin C 16 mg 
Manganese 2 mg


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## Deborah (Jan 8, 2006)

I would get a second opinion. Hope she is feeling better soon. rayer:


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (SicilianRose @ Mar 14 2009, 08:18 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745368


> QUOTE (LadysMom @ Mar 14 2009, 08:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745348





> Cosequin is wonderful! It has done an amazing job with Lady's severe arthritis!
> 
> http://www.entirelypets.com/cos90tab.html?...__utmk=42850598[/B]


Great, thank you for letting me know. :hugging: I will order that right now. Will it be ok to mix with the other sup that I listed in my other thread? What dose should I give her?? She is 4.3lbs


**** edited to add****

I just compared the two and see that they both have the same ingrediants but the one I ordered has more to it, granted it seems that the amount of the same ingrediants differ. Which do you all think would be best out of the two to give Daisy??? I already have the Joint care. Please let me know. 

*Joint Care Premium 3 Small Dog, 85 Tablets *- This is what I have right now.
Each Tablet Contains: Glucosamine, 100 mg; Perna canaliculus, 50 mg; Chondroitin, 25 mg; MSM, 25 mg; Vitamin C, 25 mg; Bromelain, 18.75 mg; Quercetin, 12.5 mg; Boswellia extract, 6 mg; Soybean and Avocado oil (ASU) extract, 2.5 mg; Vitamin E, 2.5 IU; Manganese, 0.25 mg.

*Cosequin®*
Cosequin Regular 
Glucosamine 250 mg 
Chondroitin 200 mg 
Vitamin C 16 mg 
Manganese 2 mg
[/B][/QUOTE]

Per my vet, the correct dosage for a standard size Maltese is 250-300 mg of glucosamine a day. The one you are using now doesn't have nearly enough to be of any theraputic benefit. If you calculate how many pills per day you would need to give Daisy of the one you have now, you'll see that the less expensive brands aren't any cheaper than Cosequin.

I love Cosequin. I used Glycoflex for years, but switched when they came out with so many double strength formulas. Lady was on steriods for her arthritis for two years, but is able to do with them completely with Cosequin.


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## bellapuppy (Dec 1, 2008)

Oh, I am sorry Daisy has this.


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## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Mar 14 2009, 08:45 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745385


> QUOTE (SicilianRose @ Mar 14 2009, 08:18 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745368





> QUOTE (LadysMom @ Mar 14 2009, 08:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745348





> Cosequin is wonderful! It has done an amazing job with Lady's severe arthritis!
> 
> http://www.entirelypets.com/cos90tab.html?...__utmk=42850598[/B]


Great, thank you for letting me know. :hugging: I will order that right now. Will it be ok to mix with the other sup that I listed in my other thread? What dose should I give her?? She is 4.3lbs


**** edited to add****

I just compared the two and see that they both have the same ingrediants but the one I ordered has more to it, granted it seems that the amount of the same ingrediants differ. Which do you all think would be best out of the two to give Daisy??? I already have the Joint care. Please let me know. 

*Joint Care Premium 3 Small Dog, 85 Tablets *- This is what I have right now.
Each Tablet Contains: Glucosamine, 100 mg; Perna canaliculus, 50 mg; Chondroitin, 25 mg; MSM, 25 mg; Vitamin C, 25 mg; Bromelain, 18.75 mg; Quercetin, 12.5 mg; Boswellia extract, 6 mg; Soybean and Avocado oil (ASU) extract, 2.5 mg; Vitamin E, 2.5 IU; Manganese, 0.25 mg.

*Cosequin®*
Cosequin Regular 
Glucosamine 250 mg 
Chondroitin 200 mg 
Vitamin C 16 mg 
Manganese 2 mg
[/B][/QUOTE]

Per my vet, the correct dosage for a standard size Maltese is 250-300 mg of glucosamine a day. The one you are using now doesn't have nearly enough to be of any theraputic benefit. If you calculate how many pills per day you would need to give Daisy of the one you have now, you'll see that the less expensive brands aren't any cheaper than Cosequin.

I love Cosequin. I used Glycoflex for years, but switched when they came out with so many double strength formulas. Lady was on steriods for her arthritis for two years, but is able to do with them completely with Cosequin.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you Marj. I just ordered the Cosequin. :hugging:


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## kathym (Aug 5, 2006)

I GOT THE COSEQUIN 180 CAPSULES FOR SMALL ANIMALS FROM MEDI-VET.COM I GIVE 1/2 CAP WITH 1 TEASPOON OF PLAIN GREEK YOGART EVERY MORNING.


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## totallytotontuffy (May 16, 2007)

QUOTE (SicilianRose @ Mar 14 2009, 07:18 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745368


> I just compared the two and see that they both have the same ingrediants but the one I ordered has more to it, granted it seems that the amount of the same ingrediants differ. Which do you all think would be best out of the two to give Daisy??? I already have the Joint care. Please let me know.
> 
> *Joint Care Premium 3 Small Dog, 85 Tablets *- This is what I have right now.
> Each Tablet Contains: Glucosamine, 100 mg; Perna canaliculus, 50 mg; Chondroitin, 25 mg; MSM, 25 mg; Vitamin C, 25 mg; Bromelain, 18.75 mg; Quercetin, 12.5 mg; Boswellia extract, 6 mg; Soybean and Avocado oil (ASU) extract, 2.5 mg; Vitamin E, 2.5 IU; Manganese, 0.25 mg.
> ...


Toto will be 9 years old (shaking my head in disbelief) in June. I recently noticed him having a little difficulty, nothing extreme but it concerned me. My friend Yo (malteselover on SM) told me about a product made by DVM called Synovi G3® Soft Chews that worked for her sister's maltese. I ordered them a few months back and I see a great improvement. They are soft, kind of like the solid gold tiny tots if you have purchased those for Daisy. They also make it in tablet form.

I have a friend who is a physical therapist. He told me that he attended a seminar about Glucosamine and that products that contain glucosamine combined with MSM are the most beneficial. He explained that studies have shown very little benefit regarding the use of Chondroitin.

This is the ingredient statement copied from DVM's website for Synovi G3:
[attachment=49897:synovi_g3.jpg]


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## totallytotontuffy (May 16, 2007)

Here is the link for the complete nutritional break down for the Synovi products:

http://www.tevaanimalhealth.com/DetailsShe...bc-e90609287eec


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I like the Synovi or Cosequin. I'm now using the next generation Cosequin (Dasuquin) for Soda. He takes the Dasuquin for Cats now.


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## njdrake (Apr 23, 2007)

I'm really sorry to hear Daisy is having problems. 
Daisy is a lucky girl to have such a great mom. You're already getting informed and meeting this head on. 
Big hugs to you and your girl.


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## casa verde maltese (Apr 7, 2007)

Debbie:
I'm sorry that Daisy is suffering! You are a great Mom! 
:grouphug: :grouphug:


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## Dixie's Mama (Mar 19, 2008)

I just had Dixie to her vet this past Wed. for her Rabies shot. I asked him about glucosamine & chondroitin and if I should give it to Dixie even though she doesn't have a problem. He said it would be fine to give it to her but to be sure of the ingredients in what ever brand I get. It seems it is so popular to give these days companies are taking advantage of us once more by putting fake ingredients in the med. He said one tested contained nothing but milk powder. I asked how I was supposed to be sure of the ingredients. He said to buy a well known brand and not to buy a cheap one you have never heard of.
Good luck with Daisy.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

well i just found out my girl has LP 4 based on xrays for a hurt leg and a bc radiologist also reviewed radiographs and he has a phd -- dd LP are permanently out so the do not luxate back and forth so i think that is why we do not see any limping or hopping or leg lifting until this injury occured. Dogs with LP are more susceptible to acl tears and ruptures so do not let her jump up and down and limit stairs as well as limit any frisbee or ball chasing as the twisting and turning can cause more injury. Here is a great link that explains it and a good supplement a girl on my yorkie girl has been using and she has tried a few supplements and she said this one really works and she actually sees a difference in her yorkie. My dd xrays look exactly like the one on the left in both back legs  It can lead to arthritis in joints if not repaired but i personally will only repair if it is causing her pain or walking on 3 legs and hurting her quality of life. If she has acl rupture or tear which i am hoping it is not then i will try conservative mgt with her as in speaking to some orthos if not clinical then they just do conservative management -- two groups i joined with info are orthodog and conservative management on yahoo groups to learn more 

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.p...;C=0&A=2448

http://www.peninsulapet.com/veterinary_top...ng_patella.html

http://www.entirelypets.com/cosregstren.ht...__utmk=91961499


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

now with a dog with liver issues i would not give supplement as it has manganese in it and may not be good for a mvd dog so check with vet before giving any supplements - print it out and have him consult with you on whether to use this or not 



QUOTE (dwerten @ Mar 15 2009, 12:01 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745514


> well i just found out my girl has LP 4 based on xrays for a hurt leg and a bc radiologist also reviewed radiographs and he has a phd -- dd LP are permanently out so the do not luxate back and forth so i think that is why we do not see any limping or hopping or leg lifting until this injury occured. Dogs with LP are more susceptible to acl tears and ruptures so do not let her jump up and down and limit stairs as well as limit any frisbee or ball chasing as the twisting and turning can cause more injury. Here is a great link that explains it and a good supplement a girl on my yorkie girl has been using and she has tried a few supplements and she said this one really works and she actually sees a difference in her yorkie. My dd xrays look exactly like the one on the left in both back legs  It can lead to arthritis in joints if not repaired but i personally will only repair if it is causing her pain or walking on 3 legs and hurting her quality of life. If she has acl rupture or tear which i am hoping it is not then i will try conservative mgt with her as in speaking to some orthos if not clinical then they just do conservative management -- two groups i joined with info are orthodog and conservative management on yahoo groups to learn more
> 
> http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.p...;C=0&A=2448
> 
> ...


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

check out the one i posted below as this girl on yk swears by it and i think she tried 3 or 4 before and saw no results and this is a very pure form with good ingredients as she does alot of research and a very detailed person so I would trust her recommendation so have vet check it out and let you know 


QUOTE (Dixie's Mama @ Mar 14 2009, 11:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745495


> I just had Dixie to her vet this past Wed. for her Rabies shot. I asked him about glucosamine & chondroitin and if I should give it to Dixie even though she doesn't have a problem. He said it would be fine to give it to her but to be sure of the ingredients in what ever brand I get. It seems it is so popular to give these days companies are taking advantage of us once more by putting fake ingredients in the med. He said one tested contained nothing but milk powder. I asked how I was supposed to be sure of the ingredients. He said to buy a well known brand and not to buy a cheap one you have never heard of.
> Good luck with Daisy.[/B]


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

agree carpet better but i am stuck  my baby has horrible allergies so i am stuck with hard wood and tile darn it  or she will rub her face on throw rugs and her eyes swell shut 


QUOTE (Allheart @ Mar 14 2009, 06:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745297


> Debbie, I am so broken hearted to hear this :smcry: :smcry: I know your baby girl will be okay, but I know how much you love and worry about her.
> 
> Debbie, when Kara had her LP's her ortho doc said to make sure all floor are carpted. We even put down ones now, because we know sometimes the breed is so prone to this.
> 
> I am so sorry :smcry: :smcry:[/B]


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

yep that is just what i posted and have heard great things about it  


QUOTE (kathym @ Mar 14 2009, 06:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745315


> DEBBIE THE MAIN THING MY VET SAID WHEN I FOUND OUT ABOUT BACI'S KNEES IS NO JUMPING ON OR OFF THE COUCH OR BED I HAVE STEPS ,NOT THAT HE ALWAYS USE THEM BUT IT DOES HELP.I'M ALSO GIVING HIM COSEQUIN IT CAME HIGHLY RECOMMENDED FOR THIS PROBLEM.
> I AM SO SORRY TO HEAR THAT BABY DAISY HAS LP IN BOTH KNEES .[/B]


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

no it is not this -- see link i just posted 

QUOTE (SicilianRose @ Mar 14 2009, 06:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745336


> QUOTE (kathym @ Mar 14 2009, 07:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745315





> DEBBIE THE MAIN THING MY VET SAID WHEN I FOUND OUT ABOUT BACI'S KNEES IS NO JUMPING ON OR OFF THE COUCH OR BED I HAVE STEPS ,NOT THAT HE ALWAYS USE THEM BUT IT DOES HELP.I'M ALSO GIVING HIM COSEQUIN IT CAME HIGHLY RECOMMENDED FOR THIS PROBLEM.
> I AM SO SORRY TO HEAR THAT BABY DAISY HAS LP IN BOTH KNEES .[/B]



Cosequin? Can I find that on PetMeds? The sup that I bought for Daisy is this. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...mp;pcatid=19868

Daisy does have stairs for both the couch in the lower level and main level and she has stairs for our bed. 


Again, thank you everyone for all the support regarding Daisy and this condition. If there are any other advice regarding how to further care for this outside of what I am doing now and the call to the ortho on Monday for his/her evaluation of it, I would really appreciate hearing them. Like I said, I really want to learn all that I can about this so that I can better care for my little girl in the mean time for now.
[/B][/QUOTE]


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

oh good  this is what i posted just seeing this now and can concur 


QUOTE (LadysMom @ Mar 14 2009, 07:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745348


> Cosequin is wonderful! It has done an amazing job with Lady's severe arthritis!
> 
> http://www.entirelypets.com/cos90tab.html?...__utmk=42850598[/B]


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

do the COSEQUIN i posted as you have about 4 people that have good results on it 

QUOTE (SicilianRose @ Mar 14 2009, 07:18 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745368


> QUOTE (LadysMom @ Mar 14 2009, 08:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745348





> Cosequin is wonderful! It has done an amazing job with Lady's severe arthritis!
> 
> http://www.entirelypets.com/cos90tab.html?...__utmk=42850598[/B]


Great, thank you for letting me know. :hugging: I will order that right now. Will it be ok to mix with the other sup that I listed in my other thread? What dose should I give her?? She is 4.3lbs


**** edited to add****

I just compared the two and see that they both have the same ingrediants but the one I ordered has more to it, granted it seems that the amount of the same ingrediants differ. Which do you all think would be best out of the two to give Daisy??? I already have the Joint care. Please let me know. 

*Joint Care Premium 3 Small Dog, 85 Tablets *- This is what I have right now.
Each Tablet Contains: Glucosamine, 100 mg; Perna canaliculus, 50 mg; Chondroitin, 25 mg; MSM, 25 mg; Vitamin C, 25 mg; Bromelain, 18.75 mg; Quercetin, 12.5 mg; Boswellia extract, 6 mg; Soybean and Avocado oil (ASU) extract, 2.5 mg; Vitamin E, 2.5 IU; Manganese, 0.25 mg.

*Cosequin®*
Cosequin Regular 
Glucosamine 250 mg 
Chondroitin 200 mg 
Vitamin C 16 mg 
Manganese 2 mg
[/B][/QUOTE]


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

I was told walking is good but no sharp movements so my dd who loves to play frisbee for 3 hrs a night can no longer do that type of movement unless i want to take a chance of acl rupture or tear  so no playing ball, chasing toys, etc jumping on and off couch - it is the sharp movement that makes the knee susceptible to acl tears or rupture so nothing like that and be careful of stairs -- i feel your pain as i just found all this out after my dd jumped off stairs and hurt herself 3 weeks ago and had xrays done and it is plain as day as i have the xrays at home on cd and keep looking at them in tears and still waiting to see if she has a tear or rupture as drawer test will be done when i get dental. I do caution you with nsaids though make sure to give midmeal and not if your dog is on steroids as i had a bad situation with metacam and it took my dd 3 weeks to recover as vet gave on empty stomach which affected the lining of her stomach thus triggerin vomitting for two weeks and possible ulcer as she is on temaril p for allergies and they should never be mixed with steroids. Just a heads up as i finally have her balanced out again from one dose of that drug 



QUOTE (SicilianRose @ Mar 14 2009, 04:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745207


> I took Daisy for some walks last weekend(Sat and Sun) and noticed on Tuesday that she was nursing her hind legs. She would lift them up occasionally but would walk just fine. The lifting of the leg would only occur when she was in a resting standing position and then she would be fine and then she will start walking just fine. So concerned I called the vet, we originally thought that it could be a sprain and set an appointment for him to look at her today. After looking at her today he came to the conclusion that it was not a spray. He examined her, took xrays and examined her again. His conclusion is that she has Luxating Patellas in both hind quarters which are a grade 1. The Vet said that the lifting of the legs could be caused because of the knee cap sliding out of place and it feeling uncomfortable so she will lift her leg, but once put back down that it slid back so she continued on with her walking, running or playing. I started her on hip and joint medication. I asked him if it could be because of either the walk or her being active and he said it was neither. He said that it was because of the way her bones are growing so it is congenital.  I am besides myself.
> 
> Outside of her starting the vitamins is there anything else that I can do to keep it from getting worse? She is not allowed to jump onto or off of things and the Vet said that I should not limit her walking or running around because it is good for her to strengthen her muscles. But I can't help but wonder if is anything else that I can do.[/B]


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

Debbie,
I am so sorry :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Sweet Daisy will do ok.
Nemo had the surgery in Dec 2006 and has been ok ever since. I have all wood and tile so I watch him closely and try to keep his weight down also.
Sending prayers and many many hugs and love to Daisy and you :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:


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## Kenny&Tiffany'sMom (Feb 2, 2009)

Kenny has luxating patella problems. I prefer this he has improved greatly since I started using this and it is liquid so I consider that a bonus.... I can put it in his food and he doesn't even know.
http://www.calvetsupply.com/product/Arthri...nal_Supplements


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

Make sure Board Certified as some are not -- here is the list of board certified -- just put your state in and hit search -- only do state - also i called around to several vets in my area and asked who the best is and am going to the one they all recommended not just one recommendation - i want the best and willing to drive a little for that - also post where you live on these forums, orthodog has a list of surgeons all over the country they have experience with etc.- i always ask the question if this was your dog who would you have do the surgery 

http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/FindaSurgeoninYourArea/


QUOTE (SicilianRose @ Mar 14 2009, 05:12 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745242


> Thank you everyone for the well wishes for Daisy. JMM thank you for the information. I will call her vet Monday to get the contact info to a ortho surgeon here in Eastern PA and see about having an appointment set up so that the ortho surgeon can look at her.[/B]


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

yep vet told me same thing it was genetic 


QUOTE (SicilianRose @ Mar 14 2009, 05:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745259


> Thank you KC for that info. I am trying to find all the information regarding this so that I can make sure that I know everything about it so that I can battle it head on and Daisy can have a pain/discomfort free life. The vet did say that it was congenital though and def not caused due to an injury because there is no injury.[/B]


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Debbie, that's what our vet had put Kara on too. The Cosequin and it really did wonders.

Saying prayers.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

The thing is though one year may not be the marker as my dd was diagnosed with it in right leg as a low grade no big deal at 6 mos but we did not think anything of it as she is so active until she jumped off doggie stairs wrong and hurt her leg and we had xrays and she is grade 4 in both legs and she is not clinical  it is clear as day in xrays as i have them on cd and both patellas are off to the side in the pelvic xrays where both legs are facing forward -- i spoke to an ortho and he said that they do not usually see dogs not clinical with grade 4 but not to say it is not possible as they usually only see the dogs that are clinical as they are having problems - dd is clearly 4 per xray and bc radiologist phd but is not clinical. The two things i have to protect her from now is acl injuries and know she will have arthritis. 

Dee Dee is almost 5 and this is all coming out now after a fluke injury and thinking a break or fracture and getting xrays. 

She has had a lot of health issues and been to many vets and specialists and this is just now being addressed  I wish i knew sooner as she would not have been playing frisbee Once you know better you do better though. 



QUOTE (LadysMom @ Mar 14 2009, 05:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745266


> Dr. Jaimie wrote a great explanation about luxating patellas that is pinned in this section:
> 
> http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=41536
> 
> ...


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

that is good you are seeing results but the girl that referred cosequin tried it as well and said she did not have as good of results on it as the cosequin as i asked her about that one as well. But what works for one may not work for another and did hear this is a good one and why i asked her about it 


QUOTE (Kenny&Tiffany'sMom @ Mar 15 2009, 12:27 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745527


> Kenny has luxating patella problems. I prefer this he has improved greatly since I started using this and it is liquid so I consider that a bonus.... I can put it in his food and he doesn't even know.
> http://www.calvetsupply.com/product/Arthri...nal_Supplements[/B]


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

If you read Tonia's post, the one year marker was a general guideline for differentiating between congential luxation and luxating patellas caused by injury. A mild luxation can obviously worsen if the dog jumps on and off furniture for years which sounds like what happened with Dee Dee.

QUOTE (dwerten @ Mar 15 2009, 01:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745532


> The thing is though one year may not be the marker as my dd was diagnosed with it in right leg as a low grade no big deal at 6 mos but we did not think anything of it as she is so active until she jumped off doggie stairs wrong and hurt her leg and we had xrays and she is grade 4 in both legs and she is not clinical  it is clear as day in xrays as i have them on cd and both patellas are off to the side in the pelvic xrays where both legs are facing forward -- i spoke to an ortho and he said that they do not usually see dogs not clinical with grade 4 but not to say it is not possible as they usually only see the dogs that are clinical as they are having problems - dd is clearly 4 per xray and bc radiologist phd but is not clinical. The two things i have to protect her from now is acl injuries and know she will have arthritis.
> 
> Dee Dee is almost 5 and this is all coming out now after a fluke injury and thinking a break or fracture and getting xrays.
> 
> ...





> Dr. Jaimie wrote a great explanation about luxating patellas that is pinned in this section:
> 
> http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=41536
> 
> ...


[/B][/QUOTE]


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## Dixie's Mama (Mar 19, 2008)

Thanks Deb.

QUOTE (dwerten @ Mar 15 2009, 01:07 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745516


> check out the one i posted below as this girl on yk swears by it and i think she tried 3 or 4 before and saw no results and this is a very pure form with good ingredients as she does alot of research and a very detailed person so I would trust her recommendation so have vet check it out and let you know
> 
> 
> QUOTE (Dixie's Mama @ Mar 14 2009, 11:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745495





> I just had Dixie to her vet this past Wed. for her Rabies shot. I asked him about glucosamine & chondroitin and if I should give it to Dixie even though she doesn't have a problem. He said it would be fine to give it to her but to be sure of the ingredients in what ever brand I get. It seems it is so popular to give these days companies are taking advantage of us once more by putting fake ingredients in the med. He said one tested contained nothing but milk powder. I asked how I was supposed to be sure of the ingredients. He said to buy a well known brand and not to buy a cheap one you have never heard of.
> Good luck with Daisy.[/B]


[/B][/QUOTE]


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

sadly she never jumps off and on furniture as she has stairs -- this is a one time occurance as my nephew threw the toy on other side of stairs we think and she got disoriented  but now playing frisbee may have contributed to it as she twists and turns to catch it with her mouth - vet said when they are out like that all the time more genetic but who knows just learning about it all now 


QUOTE (LadysMom @ Mar 15 2009, 11:49 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745624


> If you read Tonia's post, the one year marker was a general guideline for differentiating between congential luxation and luxating patellas caused by injury. A mild luxation can obviously worsen if the dog jumps on and off furniture for years which sounds like what happened with Dee Dee.
> 
> QUOTE (dwerten @ Mar 15 2009, 01:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=745532





> The thing is though one year may not be the marker as my dd was diagnosed with it in right leg as a low grade no big deal at 6 mos but we did not think anything of it as she is so active until she jumped off doggie stairs wrong and hurt her leg and we had xrays and she is grade 4 in both legs and she is not clinical  it is clear as day in xrays as i have them on cd and both patellas are off to the side in the pelvic xrays where both legs are facing forward -- i spoke to an ortho and he said that they do not usually see dogs not clinical with grade 4 but not to say it is not possible as they usually only see the dogs that are clinical as they are having problems - dd is clearly 4 per xray and bc radiologist phd but is not clinical. The two things i have to protect her from now is acl injuries and know she will have arthritis.
> 
> Dee Dee is almost 5 and this is all coming out now after a fluke injury and thinking a break or fracture and getting xrays.
> 
> ...





> Dr. Jaimie wrote a great explanation about luxating patellas that is pinned in this section:
> 
> http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=41536
> 
> ...


[/B][/QUOTE]
[/B][/QUOTE]


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## jodublin (Sep 27, 2006)

sorry to hear this Debbie ,sending you and little Daisy lots of hugs ..jo :grouphug:


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## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

Sorry for the duplicate post. When I hit the button on my cell phone it must have done it twice. Can a moderator delete this post?


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## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

Ok, I am back online finally. 

Our house is entirely carpeted with the exception of the walk way, kitchen, the front foyer and bathrooms but the rooms that we are in the most are all carpeted. 

Daisy had a full blood panel when she was spayed towards the end of January and her levels were normal. Should I have it done once more before giving her the supplements (Cosequin)? Or will she be fine for me to give them to her???

I ordered the Cosequin yesterday and it should be here by Tuesday/Wednesday the latest.

I will be calling all the vets in the area and ask about who is the best Ortho in the area. I too am willing to drive it is to make sure that Daisy gets the best. 

Again, thank you so much everyone for all the comforting words, links, advice, sup suggestions and information. I truly appreciate it and it means so much to me. You are all like a huge family to Daisy and I. :sLo_grouphug3:


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## Deborah (Jan 8, 2006)

Hope she feels better soon. :grouphug:


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## susie and sadie (Jun 22, 2005)

I am so sorry to hear this, but it sounds like you're right on top of things. Hugs to you and sweet Daisy. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:


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## mom2bijou (Oct 19, 2006)

I'm so sorry to hear of Daisy having LP, Debbie. Awhile back I was told Emma has LP in both her hind legs as well. Of course I freaked out and being Emma is from Joyce Watkins, well I wasn't expecting to hear that. Although, I did learn that LP is not necessarily from bad breeding. This was in no way her breeder's fault. :smheat: I give Emma a once daily supplement for hips/joints, try to keep her from jumping on/off furniture, and knock on wood...she hasn't limped in the longest time. It's something I am constantly monitoring and if she shows any signs of distress in the future then of course I will take the necessary steps needed. Right now I think you are doing the best thing by getting Daisy supplements, getting a 2nd opinion and making the house as "LP friendly" as possible. I'll certainly be keeping sweet Daisy in my thoughts and prayers. :grouphug:


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## Isabella's Mommy (Nov 20, 2012)

I went to our vet for Isabella's annual check-up ( she's 15 months) yesterday. As she was feeling Isabella's left leg she said, " Did you hear that?" Isabella's kneecap slipped. Dr. McConnell put it back and it popped out again. She had me feel what was happening. Isabella was diagnosed with Patella Luxation as well. I didn't know much about the disorder but I do now. I researched and read everything I could. There have been episodes where Isabella will be running and then become lame. It doesn't last long. And she refuses to go down stairs; the vet said she might not feel stable enough. I felt so bad that we hadn't got it checked out earlier. She has a Grade 2 diagnosis. Our vet advised us to continue using a step so she can get on and off the couch. She can't do agility or any other sport that will harm her (and she wanted a spot on the Canadian Olympic team so badly). And most important we are to keep her slim and active (walking and trotting). She says the prognosis is good as long as we take care of her. It is scary. Let me know how your little one is doing. 



Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Isabella's Mommy said:


> I went to our vet for Isabella's annual check-up ( she's 15 months) yesterday. As she was feeling Isabella's left leg she said, " Did you hear that?" Isabella's kneecap slipped. Dr. McConnell put it back and it popped out again. She had me feel what was happening. Isabella was diagnosed with Patella Luxation as well. I didn't know much about the disorder but I do now. I researched and read everything I could. There have been episodes where Isabella will be running and then become lame. It doesn't last long. And she refuses to go down stairs; the vet said she might not feel stable enough. I felt so bad that we hadn't got it checked out earlier. She has a Grade 2 diagnosis. Our vet advised us to continue using a step so she can get on and off the couch. She can't do agility or any other sport that will harm her (and she wanted a spot on the Canadian Olympic team so badly). And most important we are to keep her slim and active (walking and trotting). She says the prognosis is good as long as we take care of her. It is scary. Let me know how your little one is doing.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Sylvia, this thread is over four years old. Daisy's mom doesn't post here anymore.

I am very sorry about your Isabella. You might want to start your own thread. We've had many members deal with LP.


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