# Pregnant Maltese!!



## olivia2988 (Oct 17, 2010)

*I have a pregnant maltese. Anyone else that been through the pregnancy with their maltese?*


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

olivia2988 said:


> *I have a pregnant maltese. Anyone else that been through the pregnancy with their maltese?*


 
No, I am just a pet owner, who has their babies spayed and neutured, so no I have never had or will have a pregnant Maltese. I'd be devestated as a pet owner.

However, there are experienced, trained, knowledgable show breeders on here, that may be able to help you, if you have a question or need any help.

As well as many loving people who do rescue and foster Maltese, and perhaps they can help you as well.

This is a great forum to learn.


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## olivia2988 (Oct 17, 2010)

*You don't have to sound so obvious about what you do and don't with your dogs. There is nothing wrong with the people that breed their dogs as long as they know what their doing and be ready for any complications.*


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

olivia2988 said:


> *You don't have to sound so obvious about what you do and don't with your dogs. There is nothing wrong with the people that breed their dogs as long as they know what their doing and be ready for any complications.*


 
Oliva, I pray you stick around. I really do. I mean that sincerely. Please do not get defensive. Please. 

All I can share with you, is there is plenty wrong with you breeding your pets. Where did you get them? Do you know their health background? Are you prepared to rush your baby girl, to the vets for an emergency C section if the case arises? There is so much more.

And the loving caring people on here will help you. Be open to it please.


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## olivia2988 (Oct 17, 2010)

*I'm just defensive because people were already being pretty rude when I am new to all of this. People are going to have their own opinions you just don't need to sound like a jerk. You and MANY people wouldn't have their beloved pets if it wasn't for breeding...It isn't right at all when I just want to talk with other pregnant maltese moms. My female I got from my Aunt 3 years ago and the stud is from a friend. They both have been checked by the vet. I already have the puppies sold and plus I am keeping one. I have everything set up if I need to take her to get a C-Section.*


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

I don't think this is the forum for you. Perhaps you should look for another one. The members here are not mean, but we have opinions that differ from yours. Good luck with your puppies, I hope mom and babies do well.


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## Gia (Aug 17, 2010)

Many people no longer have their beloved pets because of "recreational" breeding, having lost their babies due to a multitude of medical issues. They have learned first hand the importance of responsible breeding. I certainly don't know the circumstances of your breeding but please try to understand the opinions of others and enjoy your time here.

On a forum such as this you have to be open to different opinions. I don't know anyone on here but I do enjoy reading and learning all there is here and I know that if I need a question answered or support this is the place I will find it.

I hope your fluff has a healthy pregnancy resulting in happy lil ones.


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

Al I can say is maybe Deb and Lacie or Eddie can help her out. They've been through it w/ pregnant rescues. The Malt is pregnant now and nothing can change that,even if we don't agree w/ the method, is there anyone who's had pregnant Malts could help her.. 

It's not about promoting breeding now,it's about ensuring a healthy mother and babies now and maybe she will stay here and see why we're all so passionate about careful researched breeding on the forum.

I know I'd be scared if one of my Malts were pregnant, even though I used to foster dogs from the shelter that were pregnant,none we as delicate as a Malt...

I know I wouldn't want this to end in tragedy..

Am I wrong? If so, I can take the lumps...


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

michellerobison said:


> Al I can say is maybe Deb and Lacie or Eddie can help her out. They've been through it w/ pregnant rescues. The Malt is pregnant now and nothing can change that,even if we don't agree w/ the method, is there anyone who's had pregnant Malts could help her..
> 
> It's not about promoting breeding now,it's about ensuring a healthy mother and babies now and maybe she will stay here and see why we're all so passionate about careful researched breeding on the forum.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, Michele. The deed is done and her Maltese is pregnant. If some of our members who are experienced breeders can help Olivia's Maltese safely deliver healthy puppies, that is the most important thing right now.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

olivia2988 said:


> *I'm just defensive because people were already being pretty rude when I am new to all of this. People are going to have their own opinions you just don't need to sound like a jerk. You and MANY people wouldn't have their beloved pets if it wasn't for breeding...It isn't right at all when I just want to talk with other pregnant maltese moms. My female I got from my Aunt 3 years ago and the stud is from a friend. They both have been checked by the vet. I already have the puppies sold and plus I am keeping one. I have everything set up if I need to take her to get a C-Section.
> 
> I think this says it all, right here. I pray that your little girl doesn't have problems with this litter and that you aren't planning to keep doing this with her or any offspring for any financial gain. That's the definition of a BYB.*


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Snowbody said:


> olivia2988 said:
> 
> 
> > *I'm just defensive because people were already being pretty rude when I am new to all of this. People are going to have their own opinions you just don't need to sound like a jerk. You and MANY people wouldn't have their beloved pets if it wasn't for breeding...It isn't right at all when I just want to talk with other pregnant maltese moms. My female I got from my Aunt 3 years ago and the stud is from a friend. They both have been checked by the vet. I already have the puppies sold and plus I am keeping one. I have everything set up if I need to take her to get a C-Section.
> ...


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Hi Olivia,

As a breeder, the best advice I can give you is to try to find a breeder who lives near to you who is willing to be there with you during the birthing. If you don't know of any breeders nearby then ask your vet if he/she can put you in touch with someone. Honestly, I'd never be able to give much good advice over the phone or the internet. I'm nervous with each litter, my vet is on call, and I usually have a friend here with me in case I need a second set of hands or need to rush out to the vet. As for being prepared, do a google search for how to whelp a litter. There is a lot of information out there, including lists of all the things you should have on hand.

I hope and pray that all goes well.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

olivia2988 said:


> *I'm just defensive because people were already being pretty rude when I am new to all of this. People are going to have their own opinions you just don't need to sound like a jerk. You and MANY people wouldn't have their beloved pets if it wasn't for breeding...It isn't right at all when I just want to talk with other pregnant maltese moms. My female I got from my Aunt 3 years ago and the stud is from a friend. They both have been checked by the vet. I already have the puppies sold and plus I am keeping one. I have everything set up if I need to take her to get a C-Section.*


Well, to answer the question being able to talk to other with a pregnant Maltese owners, you won't find that all too often here. We have maybe two members that breed their dogs, and are active in showing thier dogs for conformation. They only breed once they have achieved champion status via the AKC, and choose matings with extreme care to achieve a desired standard. Many of us do have Malts from so called breeders such as yourself, and have paid a terrible price for that mistake. Some of us have been lucky enough to get educated about the breed, and how to choose a good breeder. If all you are looking for is a place to compare notes with other breeders, you will not be happy with the result . However, now that you dog is pregnant, and you have questions about whelping, then there are a couple of ladies here who can answer your questions. But you are going to take a little flack, and get some universal advice to spay your dog once these pups are born. And to spay and neuter the pups as well. A good breeder does that before sending puppies off to new families to insure they won't be used for breeding purposes.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

This same person has posted this same message on numerous dog boards.


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

jmm said:


> This same person has posted this same message on numerous dog boards.


Dogs other than Maltese Oh no...


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

No, same post, multiple places


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

I've bred a couple of litters and have experienced more than my fair share of whelping issues - feel free to PM me if you have any questions.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

jmm said:


> No, same post, multiple places


Oh, dear. You're right.

http://www.dogchatforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4893


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## Maltbabe (Oct 10, 2010)

*Pregnant Maltese - Reply*

Hi:

My Maltese if 4.5 lb and this past July she whelped 5 healthy puppies. Throught the pregnancy you must make sure that your baby is eating healthy. I used to boil chicken hearts and liver and mix it with her food. She ate lots of high protein food in addition to her dog food. I feed Buffalo Blue.

My Mimie was pregnant for 62 days. Towards the end of her pregnancy you must make sure that she eats healthy and has lots of water available, I fed Mimie puppy food after the 58 th week. I also added Nutrical 2 X a day.

During the last 2 weeks ONLY I fed her Boars Head Havarti Cheese, yogurt ( plain), bananas and apples cut up really small. she loves bananas!

During her due to whelp week, I took vacation time @ work and stayed with her. I did not want ultrasound or xrays during pregnancy and I was ready, to go at a moments notice. Thank GOD we did it at home and it was all natural. I was so scared with her pregancy that I spayed six weeks after the puppies. NEVER AGAIN because I love her 2 much to risk her life. All of my mimies babies survived and I kept the runt he is BEAUTIFUL and I just cannot go through that stress again. NEVER!

Feel free to e-mail me any time if you have questions. As whelp day arrives your baby will be so uncomfortable and miserable that her appetite might decrease. Please make sure to have the NUTRICAL handy . Malteses are known for their hyperglycemia and the nutrical will become very handy during the whelp. 
No calcium during the the first 6 weeks of pregnancy. babies can be deformed!!!


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

olivia2988 said:


> *You and MANY people wouldn't have their beloved pets if it wasn't for breeding...[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Well, I don't believe ANY ONE OF US would have a pet, if not for breeding ~ LOL
> 
> ...


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## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

Maltbabe said:


> Hi:
> 
> My Maltese if 4.5 lb and this past July she whelped 5 healthy puppies. Throught the pregnancy you must make sure that your baby is eating healthy. I used to boil chicken hearts and liver and mix it with her food. She ate lots of high protein food in addition to her dog food. I feed Buffalo Blue.
> 
> ...


I have no experience with a pregnant dog, but don't you mean hypoglycemia (low blood suger) not hyperglycemia (high blood sugar)?


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Maltbabe said:


> Hi:
> 
> My Maltese if 4.5 lb and this past July she whelped 5 healthy puppies. Throught the pregnancy you must make sure that your baby is eating healthy. I used to boil chicken hearts and liver and mix it with her food. She ate lots of high protein food in addition to her dog food. I feed Buffalo Blue.
> 
> ...


Wow, this is flippin' great. Yep, from one BYB to Another ~ :blink:


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

I get what you mean, that if people didn't breed, there wouldn't be puppies for sale. BUT honestly, it's responsible breeding that is key. Now you may be a very responsible person, but if you're just breeding your beloved pets just to have puppies to sell, you are not breeding responsibly, regardless of how 'prepared' you are in case of emergency. 

This forum is very anti-backyard breeder (and with reason) so please keep that in mind. I do breed my dogs but I also show them to their championships first (except one of my girls) and I am breeding for my next show puppy, not just to have puppies. 

I wish you all the luck with your litter, and I think I already mentioned, if you have any questions, feel free to pm me.


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

Are the other forums as anti BYBer as this forum? I would hope other forums would be as contientious about promoting healthy responsible breeding as this forum is. We have so many Malts and other pure breeds and mixes that need homes...


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Maltbabe said:


> Hi:
> 
> My Maltese if 4.5 lb and this past July she whelped 5 healthy puppies. Throught the pregnancy you must make sure that your baby is eating healthy. I used to boil chicken hearts and liver and mix it with her food. She ate lots of high protein food in addition to her dog food. I feed Buffalo Blue.
> 
> ...


I'm glad to hear that you had her spayed and that everything went ok! Whelping is scary, isn't it? 

To the OP, I am not sure I would say 'no' calcium during the first six weeks, but definitely they don't need puppy food during that time. My vet tried to tell me to feed puppy food and I just nodded and didn't do it, LOL. I feed the same food up until whelping (Prairie), then after the pups are born, I give the mom puppy kibble and then puppy food mixed with cottage cheese or yogurt 2x a day while she is nursing. I'm not sure that extra calcium causes deformity in puppies but I think it does increase puppy size, which can make for a more difficult pregnancy. 

I would also get some pedialyte and 1cc (or 3cc) syringes and while she is in labor, if she wont' drink water, squirt some pedialyte in her mouth. There is also a product you can order from Revival Pet called Calsorb which is given when they first start contracting and it strengthens the contractions. A lot of things can go wrong during whelping. I have one girl who free whelps, the other two have required c-sections.

There is a really good group on yahoo that is great to answer any questions you have. Just search for canine reproduction and you should be able to find it.


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## puppy lover (Dec 25, 2007)

To the OP
I think it's great that you are asking advice on how to help your little one and it's obvious you care very much for your dog - or you wouldn't be reaching out. I understand why you responded as you did. Please read the following and it may help you understand the reactions of some members. 

I think one of the reasons people get defensive about this is they've owned a sick dog as a result of a backyard breeder or inexperienced breeder. The sickness and loss of an innocent puppy or dog is devastating - and it's emotional effects can last a lifetime. Unfortunately this type of breeding produces millions of sick animals, and millions more are being killed in shelters. 

If all inexperienced/irresponsible breeding practices stopped there would be very few sick animals and no animals in the pounds. Wouldn't it be great if there were too few dogs (and cats) to go around? The only people who would own pets would have to be responsible and educated owners - breeders would see to that. Can you imagine how much less animal abuse there would be? Can you imagine how much less suffering there would be? 

This may help you understand the problems that come up with uninformed breeding practices. This is the first article I pulled up but there is a ton of information you can find on the internet.
What is a Backyard Breeder?

Many of us were not aware of the problems with BYB's until we became educated, so you're not alone. Please have compassion for the members who may become defensive. They love and care for dogs so much that it's hard to bear the suffering of so many innocent animals

Pat yourself on the back for reaching out on behalf of your dog, you're on the right track! Keep asking questions and learn as much as you can for your beloved dog, and when you know better you do better.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Oliva, if you are still around and I hope you are, I have 3 babies that passed away.

Flakey - Pet store baby
Tina Marie - Chronic kidney failure AGE 7
Kara - Disabeties AGE 8

Tina Marie was from the nicest lady, a home breeder just like yourself. What she didn't realize is that, it's not so much the health of the Mom and Dad, that is important of course, but their entire background. The granparents and even back further. What she didn't realize is that in the Mom's background, including the Mom, was a gene that effected the kidney. All her dogs, including the Mom, died at an early age of kidney failure.

See my Mia and Leo in my siggy. Aren't they cute? Do you know how many people wanted me t breed them. But because of my past heartaches, and because I am strictly a pet owner, I wouldn't even ever consider it. I've not been called to be a breeder.

And your right, if there were not Reptuable breeders, who breed to the AKC standard of the Maltese, for health, tempermant, and appearance, there would not be any Maltese. But home breeders such as yourself don't contribute to this standard or the breed.

As others have said, what is done is done. I pray all goes well, you received wonderful advice, and please stick around to learn.

I learned so much from this forum. And guess what, Mia and Leo are from home breeders, also known as back yard breeders. So, a little part of me holds my breath every day, praying I have them to their Senior years.

But I stuck with the fourum and continue to learn more. And I hope that you do as well.

I will keep Mom and the delivery of your pups in my prayers.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

puppy lover said:


> To the OP
> I think it's great that you are asking advice on how to help your little one and it's obvious you care very much for your dog - or you wouldn't be reaching out. I understand why you responded as you did. Please read the following and it may help you understand the reactions of some members.
> 
> I think one of the reasons people get defensive about this is they've owned a sick dog as a result of a backyard breeder or inexperienced breeder. The sickness and loss of an innocent puppy or dog is devastating - and it's emotional effects can last a lifetime. Unfortunately this type of breeding produces millions of sick animals, and millions more are being killed in shelters.
> ...


:goodpost:


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Do NOT supplement with calcium. You can add it naturally to the diet with a spoonful of cottage cheese daily, but that's it. Supplementing can increase the likelihood of eclampsia. 

LBB, if something opened your eyes, I've got a few things around the house that need a magic touch. Get over here.


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## lovingmal (Apr 21, 2010)

Has your dog gone through genetic health/DNA testing?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

There is no DNA testing other than parentage for Maltese. However, there are many health tests still available including testing liver function, evaluating for luxating patella, evaluating for hereditary eye problems, and evaluating thyroid function. Research has shown that, even if we don't know the exact genetic nature of a trait, breeding the best phenotypes together over time can decrease the incidence of a trait in a breeding population. Hip dysplasia is an example of this. Breeds like the labrador have greatly decreased the incidence of the trait without knowing the exact genetics. I believe it is Tibetan Terriers (? don't quote me on that one) that had decreased the incidence of shunts and MVD by breeding unaffected and least affecting dogs based on testing for phenotype. 
Phenotype is the expression of a genetic trait. So when we have very high bile acids and a liver shunt, that is the expression of the genes that produce that trait. It isn't perfect, but its better than nothing.


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## MillieMoo (Jul 2, 2010)

I've been offered to work with an accredited breeder in the UK to breed my bitch when old enough. Perhaps for one, you should ask her when she comes from. Because in England, unlike America and Australia, you don't walk down the street and see a Malti. It's extremely rare when you see one and when people ask what breed she is, their baffled once told. IF, I decide to breed my bitch, this will be to improve the quality of the breed and make it more known over here.

Maybe Olivia wanted to begin the breeding process to improve the breed? People are too quick to judge on this place and I've hardly posted!


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

MillieMoo said:


> I've been offered to work with an accredited breeder in the UK to breed my bitch when old enough. Perhaps for one, you should ask her when she comes from. Because in England, unlike America and Australia, you don't walk down the street and see a Malti. It's extremely rare when you see one and when people ask what breed she is, their baffled once told. IF, I decide to breed my bitch, this will be to improve the quality of the breed and make it more known over here.
> 
> Maybe Olivia wanted to begin the breeding process to improve the breed? People are too quick to judge on this place and I've hardly posted!


There are even fewer maltese in Ireland but maltese still should be to standard and well bred to be bred from. 
Just because a breed is kind of rare doesn't mean you breed anything to increase numbers - this would only increase problems.

If your bitch is to standard and from a reputable breeder then thats okay I guess.


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## MillieMoo (Jul 2, 2010)

amby said:


> There are even fewer maltese in Ireland but maltese still should be to standard and well bred to be bred from.
> Just because a breed is kind of rare doesn't mean you breed anything to increase numbers - this would only increase problems.
> 
> If your bitch is to standard and from a reputable breeder then thats okay I guess.


Exactly, in Ireland you know what I'm talking about. I've had someone ask me why I straighten my poodles fur! :blink:

Millie is KC registered and is to a beautiful standard, I wouldn't even think of breeding her to someone advertising their dog for stud on sites. Also, I know Millie's complete background going back to her g.g.grandparents. 

But my point in the previous post was, because people on here are so quick to judge (as my previous topic showed!) they haven't asked her any questions, let alone tried to get to know her. She could be trying to improve the quality of the breed, the AKC standard. Or she could be from somewhere like the UK or Ireland where Malti's aren't heard of. Unlike places where you can buy them from a petshop! 

I agree with previous comments about bad breeding of the dog and that leading to multiple health problems, but hopefully she has done her home work on both her own bitch and the stud!


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

I know that most of SM feels the same way about BYBs and Puppymills, so I won't go back into that discussion, but, I guess I don't understand what the OP wants to know about pregnancy in a Maltese. She didn't ask any specific questions.


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

She was vague in her posts plus she stated she already has the pups sold ,except for the one she's keeping,so no mention of trying to increase availablility of the breed. 

If she's in the US ,not the UK or Ireland...which I'm guess at.
I'm also guessing,by the grammar and spelling,she's probably from the US,where we have Malts plenty...

Sounds like she was wanting to make a few bucks breeding ,not wanting to help make the breed more accessible to an area where Malts are rarely seen...

It's hard not to jump to a conclusion given the vagueness of the post and following posts and ,it seems posting the same on other forums?

If that was her true intent,to make more Malts available to an area which ,they're rarely seen and in high demand,then I agree it was bad form to react as we did. But I don't believe that was the case... 

I think she wanted to make a few $$ and realized maybe she should network with others who've bred Malts due to their high risk of pregnancy and welping complications..

I do commend her for being contientious in that respect,but I think breeding w/o knowledge,on a monetarily influenced impulse is irresponsible...


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## Maltbabe (Oct 10, 2010)

Happy to say that puppies are going in on Monday to be neutured. After reading everyone's posts I realize that is beneficial to their health and a peace of mind to me as their owner.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I think that the OP wasn't serious about anything. 

To those who are outside the US: I don't judge you at all as I do not know anything about breeding practices or showing in Europe, so I cannot comment on something I know nothing about. My comments about BYB's and puppy mills are directed only toward Americans. The US has a huge amount of puppy mills and many members here have been directly affected (meaning, we have had to see our dogs endure years of suffering and had our hearts broken) because we had puppy mill dogs at one time.


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

Nikki's Mom said:


> I think that the OP wasn't serious about anything.
> 
> To those who are outside the US: I don't judge you at all as I do not know anything about breeding practices or showing in Europe, so I cannot comment on something I know nothing about. My comments about BYB's and puppy mills are directed only toward Americans. The US has a huge amount of puppy mills and many members here have been directly affected (meaning, we have had to see our dogs endure years of suffering and had our hearts broken) because we had puppy mill dogs at one time.


We have a big BYB/ Puppy Mill problem here aswell - most maltese here are bred in mills/ by BYB's.


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## jodublin (Sep 27, 2006)

Omg this is un real .


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## heartmadeforyou (May 16, 2009)

Maltbabe said:


> Happy to say that puppies are going in on Monday to be neutured. After reading everyone's posts I realize that is beneficial to their health and a peace of mind to me as their owner.


Way to go! We will keep them in our prayers on Monday.


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## TB.TL (Oct 13, 2010)

I agree with whoever posted above that people are incredibly quick to judge others on here. :/ I understand that backyard breeding is not good at all, for many reasons, and I plan on having both of my girls spayed as soon as they are old/big enough, again for many reasons. 

That being said... I do not believe that everyone has bad, selfish intentions and to be honest, when a new person posts and people jump down their throats immediately, it is a HUGE turn-off and you are missing a great chance to educate. My best example was in my own intro post when I stated that I was planning to start socializing my pups after their second shots... and when I said I got my pups at eight weeks... people started getting snotty and judgmental and all holier-than-thou... Acting like that is going to drive new people, new owners, potential owners away or at least make them very guarded and defensive and unwilling to listen to the valid viewpoints hiding beneath the judgment. A new poster, whether or not their initial posts agree with your personal viewpoints, is a great opportunity to teach others what you know and educate more people on proper pup care. At least let someone get a few posts in and try to get the whole story before scolding them. Sure, there are certain things that are ideal and that are clearly not ideal but all circumstances are different and sometimes, even though it's not what would in theory be what is preferred, it happens to actually be what is best for the pup in question. Not always but at least give people the benefit of the doubt and hear more of their story first.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

TB.TL said:


> I agree with whoever posted above that people are incredibly quick to judge others on here. :/ I understand that backyard breeding is not good at all, for many reasons, and I plan on having both of my girls spayed as soon as they are old/big enough, again for many reasons.
> 
> That being said... I do not believe that everyone has bad, selfish intentions and to be honest, when a new person posts and people jump down their throats, it is a HUGE turn-off and you are missing a great chance to educate. My best example was in my own intro post when I stated that I was planning to start socializing my pups after their second shots... and when I said I got my pups at eight weeks... people started getting snotty and judgmental and all holier-than-thou... Acting like that is going to drive new people, new owners, potential owners away or at least make them very guarded and defensive. A new poster, whether or not their initial posts agree with your personal viewpoints, is a great opportunity to teach others what you know and educate more people on proper pup care. At least let someone get a few posts in and try to get the whole story before scolding them. Sure, there are certain things that are ideal and that are clearly not ideal but all circumstances are different and sometimes, even though it's not what would in theory be what is preferred happens to actually be what is best for the pup in question.


 
Honestly, I am not a judgemental person at all. I really am only thinking of the fluffs when I post, and did my very best for her to stick around, so others, who have been in this situation, could help her if she needed help.

Actually, I think many members jumped in, with wonderful advice and were not being judgemental whatsoever.

I think the difference is, many members of such wonderful advice and experience (and some of it very sad) and don't want any fluffs, or people to suffer what they or I did.

I don't call that judgemental at all.

My two are from byb's and couldn't be more loved or more accepted. At the time I got my babies, it was a very difficult time, and I ran into some difficult situtations, and I didn't fully understand everything, but I took in all the advice and was open to it. It's just really a growth process.


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## TB.TL (Oct 13, 2010)

I'm not looking to start anything or upset anyone.. I'm just saying, after my very first post on here, the biggest thing I was thinking was that some people on here are very judgmental. It might not seem that way to you and that might not always be the case but as a new poster, that was definitely the impression I got, immediately. And after looking in to things more, I did find that I agreed with what was being posted and that I found their information to be helpful. The attitude that came along with *SOME* of the posts was unnecessary, though, and that's all I'm saying. There's a different way to approach a person that you disagree with and acting like a know-it-all and treating the new poster as though they are stupid doesn't really help things or make them want to listen to reason.


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## TB.TL (Oct 13, 2010)

And btw allheart... you were not someone that I considered judgemental...


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## MillieMoo (Jul 2, 2010)

TB.TL said:


> I agree with whoever posted above that people are incredibly quick to judge others on here. :/ I understand that backyard breeding is not good at all, for many reasons, and I plan on having both of my girls spayed as soon as they are old/big enough, again for many reasons.
> 
> That being said... I do not believe that everyone has bad, selfish intentions and to be honest, when a new person posts and people jump down their throats immediately, it is a HUGE turn-off and you are missing a great chance to educate. My best example was in my own intro post when I stated that I was planning to start socializing my pups after their second shots... and when I said I got my pups at eight weeks... people started getting snotty and judgmental and all holier-than-thou... Acting like that is going to drive new people, new owners, potential owners away or at least make them very guarded and defensive and unwilling to listen to the valid viewpoints hiding beneath the judgment. A new poster, whether or not their initial posts agree with your personal viewpoints, is a great opportunity to teach others what you know and educate more people on proper pup care. At least let someone get a few posts in and try to get the whole story before scolding them. Sure, there are certain things that are ideal and that are clearly not ideal but all circumstances are different and sometimes, even though it's not what would in theory be what is preferred, it happens to actually be what is best for the pup in question. Not always but at least give people the benefit of the doubt and hear more of their story first.


Glad to see it's not just me! :thumbsup:


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## Maltbabe (Oct 10, 2010)

Hi all!

Let us not judge. Instead, those more experienced can teach us without judging. Someday, when you all get to know me better, I will explain the circumstances of how my Mimie got pregnant. After this unforseen and unfortunate ACCIDENT happened, I started educating myself. I did not sell the pups she I kept them.They are coming in on Monday for their neutering assesment. Petey my daughter's Maltese who lives with us now, wil be neutered on Monday. Mimie was spayed 6 weeks after she had her pups and all I can really say is that I was so scared when she had her babies that I cried all the way though the delivery. Yes, I was angry at myself, my husband and Petey whom had been in our home only a few weeks with a belly band on ALL THE TIME and Mimie took it off him when they were out in the terrace. when I wrote to Olivia regarding my experience someone in this group immediately labeled me as a BYB this is very unkind.I still come back and read, post and learn from other sweet and loving people which by the way, are majority in this group. Your babies are all adorable and I love reading your stories.


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## TB.TL (Oct 13, 2010)

Sorry you had a rough introduction. I actually did, too, a bit but I decided to stick it out and I'm glad I did... there are lots of people on here who are very smart about their pups and have lots of good insight and advice!

My wife and I had a Maltese that had puppies last fall. We were not backyard breeders; we did not sell the pups or do it to make money or anything like that. At that time, our Maltese had one male puppy and he was homed with a couple who had another male Maltese... they are best friends now and I know he is happy and well cared for and spoiled. We still baby sit him on occasion! Watching our dog give birth and going through the entire process was very emotional. I cried when I cut the cord. It was amazing and fun and hard and tiring to help take care of a brand new puppy, as well as the issues with the new parents.

That experience happened with a dog that was pretty much my first dog and I was fairly uneducated about dog issues at that time. I was never really a dog person and I really didn't know the pros and cons and ins and outs of it all. However, I have since done research and found out how bad BYB can be (repetitive breeding for profit leads to unhealthy moms and pups and overpopulation and all of that) and how dangerous having a pregnant pup can be. We now have two female Maltese that yes, will be spayed as soon as they are old/big enough. There are lots of reasons why spaying is best. It lowers tons of health risks and it has tons of other benefits.  

Our two precious precious pups were bred by a woman we know who is not a "breeder". She actually owns a female pup that is the daughter of our old dogs... the Mom pup died tragically this year and the woman bred our dog's daughter with the intent of giving us the puppies who would be a part of our beloved dog's bloodline. And by the way, the pups are in great condition, very healthy... we had them thoroughly checked out and they passed with flying colors. I know this is not always the case with puppies who are bred unprofessionally so I guess we got lucky.

Anyway, what I am saying is... I was sort of like you. Had a pregnant Maltese and THEN educated myself and now am going to spay my pups because I believe that is what is best, hands down. It might be backwards and I might seem irresponsible but like you, it was not done intentionally at all.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Sorry to you who were offended by our trying to educate, but most all of the posters here are first and foremost animal lovers and in this case specifically Malt lovers. And most of what we say is said because we want to protect Maltese individually and to protect the breed, in general. 

When we read statements that reflect a cavalier attitude toward breeding, we are going to get emotional about it. Many members here have seen first hand the dire results of just putting two Malts together with no regard whatsoever for genetics and for preeserving the looks and temperment of our beloved breed.

Sure, ideally we'd wait and get to know the person, but we don't know if they will post again and with so many members here it is sometimes difficult to remember who said what in a prior thread. So the best time to reply to something is at the time the statement is made. 

I'm sorry if certain members feel attacked and the need to get defensive. We really don't know how someone will accept information and education. We are not going to stop being vigilant in educating, as we are talking not just to the OP but to the many, many people who lurk here or who may find the thread in the future. 

As has been said many times... the culture of this forum is not to support BYBs and mills and indiscriminate breeding. I really don't think the fact that some people don't want to hear it is going to stop us from saying it.

EDITED to say: We have for the most part tried to be welcoming when someone introduces themselves and says they have a new puppy they just got at 8 weeks. Unless there is more information on that topic offered by the OP, we tend to just welcome the happy new owner and let the fact that they bought from a BYB or mill and brought their new Malt home too soon go.


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## TB.TL (Oct 13, 2010)

I am afraid I have to respectfully disagree but that's ok, not everyone has to share the same viewpoint. When I first introduced myself, I simply mentioned that we had just gotten our pups, that they were eight weeks, etc. and I had responses coming in about how it was irresponsible to get puppies that young. When I mentioned that I was going to start socializing after their second vaccinations because that is what the organization recommended and they would be too old for puppy socials by the time they were fully vaccinated, I got people sniffing about how they really hoped I wouldn't put my dog on the ground anywhere until she was fully vaccinated. And seeing as how I am not the only person to mention that people tend to be quickly judgmental towards new posters, I am inclined to believe there might be some hint of truth there.

It's 100% wonderful to educate new posters and new owners. I learn new stuff on here all the time and I appreciate it. You're quick to say that you have to respond fast in case they don't come back but I can promise that quick harsh judgments in response to initial posting will really help the new poster NOT come back. 

I do not think that BYB is good. I think puppy mills and pet shops that sell pups and people who continually breed pups for profit are terrible, terrible things. However, I know from experience that sometimes a pregnant pup happens and people don't think to look into it and start educating themselves until that exact situation falls in to their laps. Judging and criticizing them for having a pregnant pup does not change the fact that they have a pregnant pup. If people do not think to look into it and educate themselves beforehand, there's not much you can do, really. It would be one thing if someone posted, hey, how can I breed my dog? Then you can start preaching and preventing or whatever. But if this owner has a dog that happens to be pregnant, as a animal lover, dog lover, Maltese lover... you should offer information on what she can do to care for her pup or to get professional assistance or whatever and support her trying to do what is right. It's not the pup's fault that she's pregnant and as an animal lover, your first concern should be the pup's well-being, not lecturing that she wasn't previously fixed or that BYB is bad or judging her owner. 

Education and judgment are two different things, even when you are educating someone about something you have very strong judgment about. I think it could be handled differently, that's all. And I'm not addressing everyone... when I posted my first post, I did receive a lot of warm welcomes... more than judgments... but the judgments and attitudes were a bit off-putting.


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

Maltbabe said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Let us not judge. Instead, those more experienced can teach us without judging. Someday, when you all get to know me better, I will explain the circumstances of how my Mimie got pregnant. After this unforseen and unfortunate ACCIDENT happened, I started educating myself. I did not sell the pups she I kept them.They are coming in on Monday for their neutering assesment. Petey my daughter's Maltese who lives with us now, wil be neutered on Monday. Mimie was spayed 6 weeks after she had her pups and all I can really say is that I was so scared when she had her babies that I cried all the way though the delivery. Yes, I was angry at myself, my husband and Petey whom had been in our home only a few weeks with a *belly band on ALL THE TIME and Mimie took it off him when they were out in the terrace.* when I wrote to Olivia regarding my experience someone in this group immediately labeled me as a BYB this is very unkind.I still come back and read, post and learn from other sweet and loving people which by the way, are majority in this group. Your babies are all adorable and I love reading your stories.


Talk about raging hormones...that girl was determined! Petey was seduced.  Happy to see all will be/are spayed/neutered so there won't be any more determined accidents in your family.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

k/c mom said:


> Sorry to you who were offended by our trying to educate, but most all of the posters here are first and foremost animal lovers and in this case specifically Malt lovers. And most of what we say is said because we want to protect Maltese individually and to protect the breed, in general.
> 
> *When we read statements that reflect a cavalier attitude toward* *breeding*, *we are going to get emotional about it.* Many members here have seen first hand the dire results of just putting two Malts together with no regard whatsoever for genetics and for preeserving the looks and temperment of our beloved breed.
> 
> ...


I do really agree with you Sher, especially the bold parts above. I can totally see, not fully understanding where to get a pup from, most know petstores, the babies come from puppymills, some still don't.

But what hurts me to my heart, is a pet owner breeding their pets. This is not judging the petowner, I just am sick for the dogs and yes, very passionate about it.

I'm a real odd ball, I couldn't even deal with seeing my little girl in heat. I was born solely to be a petowner and leave the breeding to those wonderful fabulous people, that keep this lovely Maltese breed alive and breed, ethically, and to the breed standard. Thank heavens for them :aktion033:

Every comment I make about this topic, is always with the furbabies in mind, never a thought crosses my mind, what kind of person the poster is. I have no idea who they are, we just care so much about Maltese and all fur-babies, and do our best to share that passion and knowledge, with everyone. In writing it may come across as judgemental, but I honestly believe it is far from it. It is strictly passion for the dogs. Period.

I too, will always share my view, on people who just by chance, breed their pets, for the pets sake.

Hope that makes sense.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

At the risk of getting shot for this, here it is---offered humbly and hopefully received in the spirit in which it is offered:
James Stewart says in the movie "Harvey" something like this---"I have been smart and I have been pleasant, and I had rather be pleasant." My question is "why in heaven's name do we have to choose between the two?" They do not HAVE to be mutually exclusive----but often are perceived as so.
I believe it is possible to be passionate without getting personal---but I am not sure it is a quality that everyone possesses. For those who do NOT have it---maybe we should cut them some slack, and for those that do, maybe we should applaud them. 
The end.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

edelweiss said:


> At the risk of getting shot for this, here it is---offered humbly and hopefully received in the spirit in which it is offered:
> James Stewart says in the movie "Harvey" something like this---"I have been smart and I have been pleasant, and I had rather be pleasant." My question is "why in heaven's name do we have to choose between the two?" They do not HAVE to be mutually exclusive----but often are perceived as so.
> I believe it is possible to be passionate without getting personal---but I am not sure it is a quality that everyone possesses. For those who do NOT have it---maybe we should cut them some slack, and for those that do, maybe we should applaud them.
> The end.


Agreed. :thumbsup:

To Maltibabe and TB TL, I'm sorry if you were made to feel less than welcoming and I apologize if I had something to do with it. Maltibabe - KUDOS to you for coming back!! This is a perfect example of accidents happening and the owner taking responsibility for the outcome. so glad to hear that everyone will be spayed and neutered coming up!


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## TB.TL (Oct 13, 2010)

I like smart and pleasant together and that's all I ask for in anyone, anywhere, at anytime.  That quote was very applicable to this situation. Passion without getting personal is nice... passion while getting personal in a pleasant way is even better. 

Yes, there are more ideal ways to do certain things. Yes, there are safer options, healthier choices, better whatever. But recognize that everyone is different with different experiences, pups, situations, opinions but that we are all here because we love our pups! No one who wants to abuse or mistreat their pup is going to go to a Maltese fan page because really, why would they bother? We are all here out of love. If something doesn't seem accurate or smart to you, assume they are misguided with good intentions and use it as an opportunity to share your knowledge.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

TB.TL said:


> I like smart and pleasant together and that's all I ask for in anyone, anywhere, at anytime.  That quote was very applicable to this situation. Passion without getting personal is nice... passion while getting personal in a pleasant way is even better.
> 
> Yes, there are more ideal ways to do certain things. Yes, there are safer options, healthier choices, better whatever. But recognize that everyone is different with different experiences, pups, situations, opinions but that we are all here because we love our pups! No one who wants to abuse or mistreat their pup is going to go to a Maltese fan page because really, why would they bother? We are all here out of love. If something doesn't seem accurate or smart to you, assume they are misguided with good intentions and use it as an opportunity to share your knowledge.


Believe it or not, not everyone who comes here is here "out of love". After you've been here a while you'll likely come across a post that is upsetting to you, as well. Everyone's idea of what it means to be kind to their Malt differs. I'm sure a lot of old timers remember "richard" who was finally banned, but who used to talk about hitting his Malt. Plenty of horror stories here ...


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## Maltbabe (Oct 10, 2010)

No offense taken and points are all well made. My dogs are healthy and I take extra good care of them. I love them.

If there are " quality or not" I have no idea. They are pure Malteses that have NEVER had a sick day in their lives. As I have previously stated, I come here to learn and educate myself. I love reading your posts and looking at your beautiful babies! they are just loving!!! and when I first joined I wanted to see what this was all about before I decided to join as a premium member. After reading your posts regarding ALL issues I find that this is the right place for me. Thanks to ALL!


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