# Heart Murmur Am So Very Worried



## angelcake (Oct 16, 2010)

Hi, I had to take my little baby girl to the vets the other day and I had the fright of my life,Angel is 13mths old and the vet is picking up a slight heart murmur or so she thinks and wer'e now being referred to a heart specialist.I saved up for such a long to buy my little girl and as i'm disabled she has helped me so much with getting me out and have been showing her too and my one and only dream was to have apuppy from her eventually as she is such a beautiful little girl with the most beautiful temperment that was my dream. Now my dreams have been shattered and I spend nearly everyday crying,worried of how this will affect my little girl and her future. I have to wait 3 weeks before I know the situation with her whether good or bad i'm worried to death. 
I trained her up and we both enjoyed going to ringcraft where she excelled and people remarked what a beautiful all round little dog she is. She really likes to strut her stuff in the show ring and we both thouroughly enjoyed all of this,now I don't know whether we will ever see the show ring again. My heart has been torn apart. I've told the breeder but I think I'd better leave that out,really it's just me and Angel. My little girl means everything to me and now I feel so like I wish it was me not my little girl.
My little girl has always been such a quiet little girl is this why?
How can I make sure when or if I ever buy another that this won't happen again.x


----------



## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

Depends on the type and stage of heart murmur. My german shepherd had a stage four at age six months stage 6 is the worst. She was left untreated by the former owners until she came to us at age 2,we had her on meds for 11½ years that we had her,so she lived 13½ total,so there's always hope..

She lived to be 11½ more years on med management and watching her diet making sure she got plenty of exercise. She was healthy and playful and happy,other wise ,healthy as a horse.

She could live a long and full life on diligent med management.

I had a cocker w/ bad CHF and he lived to be over 14.

Keep us posted on her and try not to cry,if it's slight,she can do quite well,but I do 
understand how sad it can be to have even the tiniest thing wrong w/ our fluffs. I worried about Grechen every day of her life and she surprised,even our vet... Her heart murmur made it to stage 6 and she still lived another 8 years...

You hang in there and you know the positive thoughts and prayers of SMer's will be going to you ,your sweet girl and your family..


----------



## beckinwolf (Sep 2, 2008)

There are a few of us with dogs with heart murmurs. It's not the end of the world. As long as you monitor it, I think the dogs can live a healthy life. We got Micky when he was 4. After having him for a year they discovered his heart murmur. Its a grade 3. He is still not required to take meds and he is now 6. We take him to the cardiologist once a year. The cardio dr either gives him an ultrasound or a chest x-ray to monitor whether his heart is increasing in size or not. So far it has stayed the same. Right now on this forum I know of two other dogs for sure that have heart murmurs. Hunter is around 9, and Alex is 13. Alex is slowing down quite a bit, but Hunter is still going strong and quite active. As far as showing goes, well I will let the xperts weigh in on that aspect of it.


----------



## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

Don't feel doomed yet. Sometimes a heart murmur goes away on its own too. I agree with Michelle, if it is something then medications can be used to help with it. Lots of dogs live with heart murmurs. :hugging:








Experience the magic........HOME


----------



## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

Even if it's a bad one,like stage 5 or 6,they can live a full life.


----------



## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

Hunter has a heart murmor, actually, he has a double heart murmor. So, while his heart murmor is a higher grade (either a 3 or 4) because its a double and it balancing itself out he is still on a lower dose of medications. His medication is $16 for 50 days worth of pills. He did go each year to the cardio doctor and had an ultrasound and ekg but now we only have to go every other year. The initial cost of these procedures was $670 but we live in NE where everything is expensive and we were able to plan for the second one and will be able to plan for every other year.

Don't loose hope or get too upset until you know the diagnosis - you would never know Hunter's little heart works overtime - he is such a love and he plays and runs like all other dogs


----------



## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

I agree with all that has been said before me. However, if your little girl does have a heart murmur she should not be bred, should not continue to be shown, and you should have a very serious heart to heart conversation with your breeder, especially if you purchased her on a show/breeding contract. You and your little one are in my thoughts and prayers.

Edited to add: Several years ago we took into rescue a young dog, maybe 12-14 mos. old. The owner's husband had a stroke and she could no longer care for both her husband and her dog. Her little one had been diagnosed by two different vets with a heart murmur. So I called my vet and asked that an appointment be set up with a cardiologist for an echocardiogram so that we knew what we were dealing with prior to adoption. The cardiologist wanted her brought in at least 2 hours ahead of time so that she wasn't in a stressed out state at the time of the echocardiogram. Her test was scheduled for 2:00 pm and I had to leave her at the vet's office for the day because I had to go to work. At just about 2:00 I got a call from the cardiologist asking why I wanted an echocardiogram as she was hearing NO heart murmur. I asked for the test to be done anyway since 2 different vets had diagnosed it. So, $250 later, I picked up our little rescue girl who DID NOT have a heart murmur. She got a clean bill of health and is still living happily ever after. Moral of the story: not all vets do a great job diagnosing heart murmurs. Best to have the test done by a specialist. You may find out your little one is just fine.


----------



## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

I think the problem is different with a young dog. I don't know how they measure the heart murmur. My vet in Houston never told me the grade. He was diagnosed at 10 years old but no symptoms. Symptoms started 6 months later. That's when we started the meds for it. Since he is an older dog it could be that the progress of the illness is faster than in younger dogs. We almost lost him 2 years ago. I got a copy of his records only recently because they sent them to the eye doctor. That's where I read that the grade is 4-5/6 systolic murmur. We are also dealing with two problems. His heart is as big as the one of a labrador and is pushing on his trachea and it makes the trachea collapse. That's why we have the coughing. We were told that they can manage the disease for about 4 years. But again, this is an older dog with a trachea problem at the same time. The day the trachea collapses completely it's the end. We are very aware that this can happen from one moment to the other. We are now at the limit of what we can give for his heart : enalapril and pimobendan. We were able to raise the dosage for the lasix and he is doing well again. For how long we don't know. I have heard the same thing Tina said, that in a young dog the murmur can go away on it's own. I would not worry about it at this young age.


----------



## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

I'm always disturbed when I read someones baby is very ill, and this is no exception. I'm sorry you and Angle have to go through this. You mentioned you told the breeder - what does your health guarantee state as well as the response from the breeder? Since you have been showing her, you must of had a show/breeder contract as MaryH stated. 

Please keep positive thoughts, as all of us at SM will be doing the same. :grouphug::Flowers 2:


----------



## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

She could outgrow it,but I would still have it monitored. Just hang in there and think positive thoughts. We'll all be holding her in our thoughts too.


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Young dogs can often have murmurs due to completely benign reasons. These dogs live long, healthy lives. By seeing the cardiologist you will know the exact cause of the murmur and they will be able to guide you as to whether any continued monitoring/medication is required or not.


----------



## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

My Dear boy Flakey had a heart murmur and lived to a beautiful age of 15 years old. As he got older, he did need medicine, but was fine while he was younger and up to his adult years. Prayers for your little one.


----------



## uniquelovdolce (Mar 10, 2010)

i will be praying for ur angel.


----------



## sunnycleveland (Apr 3, 2010)

poor little Angel - I hope she gets to live a long happy life. my heart is aching for you


----------



## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Praying that this is nothing of concern. I've known a few cases of very young pooches being dx with murmur who later had no murmur. Either it 'disappeared' or wasn't truly a murmur in the first place. I think when a pooch is stressed/excited a dx of murmur can be difficult to confirm.


----------



## MillieMoo (Jul 2, 2010)

Without sounding very harsh or subtle, if you're pooch does have a heart murmur, then i'd advise you putting them to sleep. 

I had my Yorkshire Terrier for just 7 years before we discovered she had a murmur. She'd catch infections every month and take two months to recover. She devoloped a lung problem and was on two tablets every morning. 

She used to have coughing fits, so we'd take her to the vets and they'd give her and injection and then she'd be fine. That's what we thought would happen the last time she had her coughing fit, so took her off to the vets and by the time she got home she was fine, no cough in site. She jumped on the sofa to relax...five minutes later a vessel in her heart had burst and she was unconscious, dying, blood coming out of her mouth and there was nothing I or the vet could do for her anymore. 

I wouldn't want anyone to ever go through what I saw, I felt my beloved dogs heart beat for the last time and to this day, I can't think of her without my eyes welling up. 

If, I found Millie had a heart murmur now, though it would break my heart. I'd have her put to sleep. Purely because I could never see another dog go through the amount of tablets Truffles went through and the outcome was always inevitable. 

Hope this doesn't upset you too much, but you can't do anything to help her now. If she has it, she's dying. 

R.I.P Truffles!! :heart:


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Wow very untrue. If you have an echocardiogram with a cardiologist you can know the problem, prognosis, and treatments. Many dogs have benign problems and authorizing them is ridiculous.


----------



## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

MillieMoo said:


> Without sounding very harsh or subtle, if you're pooch does have a heart murmur, then i'd advise you putting them to sleep.
> 
> I had my Yorkshire Terrier for just 7 years before we discovered she had a murmur. She'd catch infections every month and take two months to recover. She devoloped a lung problem and was on two tablets every morning.
> 
> ...


I'm very sorry for what happened to Truffles but I think that's the exception, not the rule. PTS a healthy dog for a heart murmur - I would say, no way and I agree with Jackie. My yorkie had a heart murmur for years, was perfectly active and healthy and the joy of my lifem and died at age 13. He was on a pill a day. BTW, I have a heart murmur -- it's now called Mitral Valve Prolapse, at least in the human world -- and is VERY common in women. I see a cardiologist routinely (who has it herself and is a total athlete) and am just fine thank you. I'll be taking my chances with it.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

MillieMoo said:


> Without sounding very harsh or subtle, if you're pooch does have a heart murmur, then i'd advise you putting them to sleep.
> 
> I had my Yorkshire Terrier for just 7 years before we discovered she had a murmur. She'd catch infections every month and take two months to recover. She devoloped a lung problem and was on two tablets every morning.
> 
> ...


Yikes! I can't believe you are recommending euthanasia for a dog with a heart murmur! 

My vet discovered a slight heart murmur when I adopted Lady at age four. She is now 15.

She is was also diagnosed with diabetes when she was 6.5 years old. She has gotten insulin shots twice a day for the past eight years. She is prone to infections because of her weakened immune system, but having her put to sleep never crossed my mind.

On the other hand, I lost a 13 year old Siamese cat to a heart attack when she threw a clot. Holly never had any symptoms up until then.

All our pets are going to die of something at some point. That is the reality of pet ownership.


----------



## beckinwolf (Sep 2, 2008)

MillieMoo said:


> Without sounding very harsh or subtle, if you're pooch does have a heart murmur, then i'd advise you putting them to sleep.
> 
> I had my Yorkshire Terrier for just 7 years before we discovered she had a murmur. She'd catch infections every month and take two months to recover. She devoloped a lung problem and was on two tablets every morning.
> 
> ...


AngelCake, PLEASE don't listen to this posters advice. I can't imagine putting Micky down because of his heart murmur. He's perfectly healthy. Runs around like a puppy all the time. All of us are going to die one day. You can't really predict HOW though. They could die of a thousand other things.


----------



## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Mistake, sorry.


----------



## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

MillieMoo said:


> Without sounding very harsh or subtle, if you're pooch does have a heart murmur, then i'd advise you putting them to sleep.
> 
> I had my Yorkshire Terrier for just 7 years before we discovered she had a murmur. She'd catch infections every month and take two months to recover. She devoloped a lung problem and was on two tablets every morning.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry about what happened to Truffles and realize how upsetting all this was for you. Your dog's heart condition was serious but not all dogs have murmurs that would mean they have to be put down. Many go on to lead long, happy lives. I think you are just upset about what happened to your poor little dog.


----------



## njdrake (Apr 23, 2007)

I had a dog several years ago that had heart trouble. It was handled with a simple pill a day and she had no more problems until right before she died at 15 years old. I can't imagine PTS when there's medication that can give them a completely normal happy life. 
Angelcake, I hope everything goes well with your Angel and she'll be fine. Let us know how she's doing. 
:grouphug:


----------



## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

aprilb said:


> I'm so sorry about what happened to Truffles and realize how upsetting all this was for you. Your dog's heart condition was serious but not all dogs have murmurs that would mean they have to be put down. Many go on to lead long, happy lives. I think you are just upset about what happened to your poor little dog.


I too am sorry about Truffles. My Samantha (RIP) was diagnosed with a heart murmur at age 10 and lived a very good life for 5 more years. Medication helped with her heart problem and she went into sudden kidney failure a few months after her 15th birthday.

Anglecake - I hope the specialist has some encouraging words for you.


----------



## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

MillieMoo said:


> Without sounding very harsh or subtle, if you're pooch does have a heart murmur, then i'd advise you putting them to sleep.
> 
> I had my Yorkshire Terrier for just 7 years before we discovered she had a murmur. She'd catch infections every month and take two months to recover. She devoloped a lung problem and was on two tablets every morning.
> 
> ...


As every one else I am shocked to read this. You don't euthanize a dog that has still a good quality of life. I am sorry about what happened with your dog but each case is different. My dog has coughing fits but he never got an injection for it. The coughing comes from too much fluid around the lungs and the trachea collapsing. Yes he has many pills to take but so do WE when we get older. You don't euthanize people because they have to take too many pills. My dog was diagnosed at 10 and he is still here, loving every moment of it. He not even looks his age. People think he is a puppy. We recently had to give him ½ more lasix pill to get rid of the excess fluid. He is doing great again. He is happy. We know he can go any day after all he is 13-½ years old but it does not even enter my mind to have him euthanized because of this manageable disease.


----------



## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

aprilb said:


> I'm so sorry about what happened to Truffles and realize how upsetting all this was for you. Your dog's heart condition was serious but not all dogs have murmurs that would mean they have to be put down. Many go on to lead long, happy lives. I think you are just upset about what happened to your poor little dog.


Exactly. My Flakey was diagnosed at an early age with a mild heart murmor, can't quite remember the age, sorry, but he lived a beatuiful happy, healthy life until age 15. With no suffering at all, he also had cushions. But with care and meds, you would have never ever known it. Ever.

Very sorry what happened to Truffles, but please know that each situation is different and has many different stages.

I was blessed with so many years with Flakey, I can't imagine not having them. 

To the OP, you are in our prayers.

Much love.


----------



## angelcake (Oct 16, 2010)

*Thank you so very much for your kindness*

Hi, I have broken down and can't stop crying after reading MillyMoo's reply. I already am worrying myself to death I just can't believe that somone could be so unkind. Thank you to all the readers and the replies to me and for all of your kindness it has really touched me and I pray that my little one will on the 15th Nov will get a good report from the cardiologist. I would die myself for my little girl if it meant her living. I am a disabled lady with severe back problems and it's for my little ones that bring so much happiness into my life.
Thank you again xxx


----------



## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

angelcake said:


> Hi, I have broken down and can't stop crying after reading MillyMoo's reply. I already am worrying myself to death I just can't believe that somone could be so unkind. Thank you to all the readers and the replies to me and for all of your kindness it has really touched me and I pray that my little one will on the 15th Nov will get a good report from the cardiologist. I would die myself for my little girl if it meant her living. I am a disabled lady with severe back problems and it's for my little ones that bring so much happiness into my life.
> Thank you again xxx


 
Oh sweetheart, many huge hugs to you. Am praying for you, and I promise you, each baby is different as well as each condition. Flakey was diagnosed a heart murmor, and it stayed the same grade for years and years. He lived a beautiful happy life, 15 wonderful, happy, healthy years.
As I wrote to you before, later in life, he had cushions, and still with the vets care, and a couple of meds, he never had a bad day health wise. 
I know you are worried, and I know that post sure didn't help, but I promise you, I wouldn't paint a false picture. Trust me, my Flakey was still very puppified up till he was age 15. And even at age 15, I had a hard time keeping up with him. 

Just know we ALL are here for you and keep us posted. And try your best not to worry, I know it's hard, I truly do, but just try and wait to see what the doc says.

Lots of hugs to you.


----------



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

angelcake said:


> Hi, I have broken down and can't stop crying after reading MillyMoo's reply. I already am worrying myself to death I just can't believe that somone could be so unkind. Thank you to all the readers and the replies to me and for all of your kindness it has really touched me and I pray that my little one will on the 15th Nov will get a good report from the cardiologist. I would die myself for my little girl if it meant her living. I am a disabled lady with severe back problems and it's for my little ones that bring so much happiness into my life.
> Thank you again xxx


PLEASE don't even think about what this MillyMoo person said. She is not a regular poster here and she obviously does not know when to keep her mouth shut. 
Sorry but I just now saw what she wrote and the general tone of this forum is to be optimistic and supportive rather than cruel, as is her post. 

Did you see what JMM wrote in Post #17. She is a long-time vet tech so she has knowledge and experience. And from what I know, a murmur in a puppy 
is different from one in an older dog, per MillyMoo's example. And you say it is a "slight murmur"... "Slight" is better than "severe".. so just keep that in mind 
to get through these next few days. I truly understand how much she means to you. These little darlings get in to our hearts and souls for sure.

Hang on, please and try not to be too upset. I hope you get a good report on the 15th. Please keep up posted. {{{{HUGS}}}}


----------



## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

angelcake said:


> Hi, I have broken down and can't stop crying after reading MillyMoo's reply. I already am worrying myself to death I just can't believe that somone could be so unkind. Thank you to all the readers and the replies to me and for all of your kindness it has really touched me and I pray that my little one will on the 15th Nov will get a good report from the cardiologist. I would die myself for my little girl if it meant her living. I am a disabled lady with severe back problems and it's for my little ones that bring so much happiness into my life.
> Thank you again xxx


Please, please don't pay any mind to that post. I don't know what she was thinking posting that. I was looking at her past posts and she has written elsewhere how we are rude. Well that post was so uncalled for that it could be the definition of rude. It was not a help to you and there's really no one here I believe who would agree with her. You can see that I was one the first to respond to it and I was trying to be diplomatic, but I was floored by it. You've got lots of expertise and experience here at SM and a ton of prayers going your way so please think positive about the vet visit coming up and know we're here for you.:sLo_grouphug3:


----------



## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

michellerobison said:


> Depends on the type and stage of heart murmur. My german shepherd had a stage four at age six months stage 6 is the worst. She was left untreated by the former owners until she came to us at age 2,we had her on meds for 11½ years that we had her,so she lived 13½ total,so there's always hope..
> 
> She lived to be 11½ more years on med management and watching her diet making sure she got plenty of exercise. She was healthy and playful and happy,other wise ,healthy as a horse.
> 
> ...


 
Our Emily also had a heart murmur and lived to be 15.5 years old with regulation of medication and diet restrictions. Ms. Emily lived a very happy life - she was amazing.

I hope that things will work out for you and your fluff - 

My thoughts are with you and your sweet little girl.


----------



## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

When Grechen was diagnosed w/ her hreat murmur,they told me should could go in one of few ways. She could go just like that,in weeks,or months or years. They suggested meds and monitor her. She lived another 12.5 years.
Slowly her heart weakend,not from the murmur,I would say probably old age.
I understand the other poster's fear and her pain and I don't diminish it. But I would do all I could,find out all I could. Grechen lived a full long and healthy life for almost 14 years total. That's 12.5 years I wouldn't have had,if I hadn't tried.

If it was really severe and she could go at any time,maybe I'd consider PTS but I think I'd still take my chances on treatment and monitoring..

Each situation is unique..


----------



## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

MillieMoo said:


> *Without sounding very harsh or subtle, if you're pooch does have a heart murmur, then i'd advise you putting them to sleep. *


 
Good Lord, I'll let Jops know she should have been PTS 8-years ago, when she was 5-months old. Oh, and Little Ringo, he was 6-months old, guess we should have killed him, too, rather than deal with it, and watch him live a full, and happy life.

My Daisy had a high-grade heart murmur, in her senior years, yet lived happily for a couple more years.

Bianca was old, but was still active, and otherwise healthy.

Let's now mention Fat Butt Joanie. She's a senior, on meds, with a high-grade murmur. She's living the life with her adoptive mom, and family.

The list goes on, and on. How dare you give such crappy advise.

I am sorry about your dog, but think before you advise to put a dog down, when you don't know the diagnosis, prognosis, of that particular dog, nor are you qualified. Come on, are you serious?

And yep, if, God forbid, your dog end up with a heart murmur, send the dog to me. 

I must say, I had to laugh at your ignorant response. Nope, not a "funny" laugh, a "shaking-my-head Laugh".

I can't imagine the OP would actually take her ONE reply seriously, and ignore the rest of the posters. That would be weird.

Come on OP, you are smarter than that. We are here to help, and support.


----------



## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I have written Nov. 15th on my calendar for you and your baby---prayers will continue----please up-date us ASAP when you know more. 
Life is percarious---but God is good! rayer:rayer:
I believe you are in the best of hands. Sending warm hugs.:grouphug:


----------



## MillieMoo (Jul 2, 2010)

For one, I was not being unkind. In the slightest. Just find that everyone around here *****-foots around serious subjects! I was being intirely truthful and that I stand by. Whether any of you agree or disagree, my personal experience would always affect what I would do if something happened to Millie's heart. Everytime I take her to the vets, I insist they check her heart. 

A heart problem can one day be minor, the next the dog can be dead. Monitored or not, the day or two when your dog is not at the vet. It could be too late. No dog, no animal, nobody should have to live a life depending on tablets! 

As usual, this board is critizing the realistic ones. You can all give her false hope etc, but her dog is very unwell. Whether you've had good experiences of quality of lives or not, the dog will depend on drugs. There is no quality of life when shoving two, three, four tablets down a relectant dogs throat every day just to keep them alive, when they can just suddenly die.


----------



## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

angelcake said:


> Hi, I had to take my little baby girl to the vets the other day and I had the fright of my life,Angel is 13mths old and the vet is picking up a slight heart murmur or so she thinks and wer'e now being referred to a heart specialist.I saved up for such a long to buy my little girl and as i'm disabled she has helped me so much with getting me out and have been showing her too and my one and only dream was to have apuppy from her eventually as she is such a beautiful little girl with the most beautiful temperment that was my dream. Now my dreams have been shattered and I spend nearly everyday crying,worried of how this will affect my little girl and her future. I have to wait 3 weeks before I know the situation with her whether good or bad i'm worried to death.
> I trained her up and we both enjoyed going to ringcraft where she excelled and people remarked what a beautiful all round little dog she is. She really likes to strut her stuff in the show ring and we both thouroughly enjoyed all of this,now I don't know whether we will ever see the show ring again. My heart has been torn apart. I've told the breeder but I think I'd better leave that out,really it's just me and Angel. My little girl means everything to me and now I feel so like I wish it was me not my little girl.
> My little girl has always been such a quiet little girl is this why?
> How can I make sure when or if I ever buy another that this won't happen again.x


:grouphug:you got GREAT stories from the responses here. I say 99.9% from the stories posted were positive which means that your pup can live a looong happy life when taken care of. Please give her tones of kisses from me.
:grouphug::grouphug: 
Kat


----------



## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

MillieMoo said:


> For one, I was not being unkind. In the slightest. Just find that everyone around here *****-foots around serious subjects! I was being intirely truthful and that I stand by. Whether any of you agree or disagree, my personal experience would always affect what I would do if something happened to Millie's heart. Everytime I take her to the vets, I insist they check her heart.
> 
> A heart problem can one day be minor, the next the dog can be dead. Monitored or not, the day or two when your dog is not at the vet. It could be too late. No dog, no animal, nobody should have to live a life depending on tablets!
> 
> As usual, this board is critizing the realistic ones. You can all give her false hope etc, but her dog is very unwell. Whether you've had good experiences of quality of lives or not, the dog will depend on drugs. There is no quality of life when shoving two, three, four tablets down a relectant dogs throat every day just to keep them alive, when they can just suddenly die.


 
OMG I don't even know how to reply to your post, it just makes me cry. I am so sorry you had such a difficult experience.

You don't know what stage the OP's dog is at.

I would never paint a false picture of hope, when there is none.

The memories of having my Flakey for 15 wonderful years, I will cherish, as will my hubby for the rest of our lives. The last two days of his life, his cough got deeper, he had CHF, we rushed him to the ER, they upped his meds. We followed up the next day with our normal vet, she listened to his heart, and told us "It was time". We then, loved him so much we did the loving thing, and gave him sweet rest.

You break my heart, in even advising, in this manner, especially over the internet, when you don't know at all, what stage her baby is in. 

To prove my point, a member here posted that their baby had chronic kidney failure. I wrote to her privately, offered my phone number, as I went through the same thing, and sadly lost my Tina Marie to it. There was no painting a happy picture with that at all.

I am heart broken for the OP, for my precious Flakey, who yes, took one pill a day, one, and it was his favorite time, because it was in a treat and that was way later in his life. And he was a HAPPY, healthy boy, of course with medicine and monitoring, but I bet if you asked him, if you could, he would have wanted just the way we did it. In fact, the day
we had to make that painful, but loving decsion , my dear Flakey, was scratching at the door to leave the vets office, tell me THAT was not heartbreaking. 

I don't even know what else to say.

I am sorry for your experience.


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

MillieMoo said:


> As usual, this board is critizing the realistic ones. You can all give her false hope etc, but her dog is very unwell. Whether you've had good experiences of quality of lives or not, the dog will depend on drugs. There is no quality of life when shoving two, three, four tablets down a relectant dogs throat every day just to keep them alive, when they can just suddenly die.


You could also get hit by a bus tomorrow. Should you jump off a cliff today just in case? Your dog could be attacked by a stray dog or wildlife. Should you euthanize it so that doesn't happen? 

I find it rather offensive that you insinuate I should euthanize my dogs because they require medication for perfectly treatable diseases...and that I'm not a good owner because I chose to treat them. 

I don't know how much you actually know about heart disease in dogs, but there are many different causes of murmurs and the prognosis varies. Dogs can have completely benign problems that are not a threat to their life or general health. To euthanize a dog like that is ludicrous. I sure hope your vet has better ethics than to perform that euthanasia. 

Before you give such radical advice, perhaps you should educate yourself further on heart disease in dogs. I've worked with veterinary cardiologists, watched them perform exams and tests, and watched the follow up of many pets over years. Where is your medical research that all murmurs should be euthanized? I'd love to bring it to one of our local cardiologist for review.


----------



## Moxie'smom (Dec 16, 2007)

Incidentally.. my beloved Moguls had a heart murmur for well over 8 years...Yes I gave him medication everyday...and made sure he was given sonograms before every dental...and you know what...he lived happily, without any issue..you never knew he had a murmur....and wound up living until his 13th birthday and sadly actually died from cancer which had nothing to do with his heart murmur...

So as usual I agree with a Jackie and many people here. Educate yourself before you continue to give such foolish advice.


----------



## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

MillieMoo, I am so sorry for your experience. It does sound heart-breaking. But your advice is absolutely horrible. You are not the only one telling the truth. There are a number of people here who have different experiences than yours who have given much more sound and reasoned advice (not *****-footing) but being truly realistic. 

Your one experience is not reflective of every (or even most) heart murmur(s). I have had 3 dogs with murmurs who never had to have any meds and lived long and healthy lives before they succomed to different other age related diseases. They did have to eventually take meds in their senior years, but I also take meds like my dog for things like thyroid. It is twisted logic to say we should not keep a dog alive on meds. 

You are almost literally throwing the baby out with the bath water. 

My mother's first child was an autistic. So one of her fellow parents at my sister's school saw her pregnant with me and said that she should have an abortion because this parent could never go through having a second child like that. Horrible and disgusting logic. But some people apparently think that way. 

To the OP: I am sorry for the scare you were given. You should take comfort in the experiences of the many here who have had dogs with murmurs who have had long and healthy lives. And you should work with your vet to get the true medical advice.


----------



## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

angelcake said:


> Hi, I had to take my little baby girl to the vets the other day and I had the fright of my life,Angel is 13mths old and the vet is picking up a slight heart murmur or so she thinks and wer'e now being referred to a heart specialist.I saved up for such a long to buy my little girl and as i'm disabled she has helped me so much with getting me out and have been showing her too and my one and only dream was to have apuppy from her eventually as she is such a beautiful little girl with the most beautiful temperment that was my dream. Now my dreams have been shattered and I spend nearly everyday crying,worried of how this will affect my little girl and her future. I have to wait 3 weeks before I know the situation with her whether good or bad i'm worried to death.
> I trained her up and we both enjoyed going to ringcraft where she excelled and people remarked what a beautiful all round little dog she is. She really likes to strut her stuff in the show ring and we both thouroughly enjoyed all of this,now I don't know whether we will ever see the show ring again. My heart has been torn apart. I've told the breeder but I think I'd better leave that out,really it's just me and Angel. My little girl means everything to me and now I feel so like I wish it was me not my little girl.
> My little girl has always been such a quiet little girl is this why?
> How can I make sure when or if I ever buy another that this won't happen again.x


I am always sad to read a fluff is ill, and usually don't say much if at all. I'll be waiting to see what the doc say about your baby.











MillieMoo said:


> For one, I was not being unkind. In the slightest. Just find that everyone around here *****-foots around serious subjects! I was being intirely truthful and that I stand by. Whether any of you agree or disagree, my personal experience would always affect what I would do if something happened to Millie's heart. Everytime I take her to the vets, I insist they check her heart.
> 
> A heart problem can one day be minor, the next the dog can be dead. Monitored or not, the day or two when your dog is not at the vet. It could be too late. No dog, no animal, nobody should have to live a life depending on tablets!
> 
> As usual, this board is critizing the realistic ones. You can all give her false hope etc, but her dog is very unwell. Whether you've had good experiences of quality of lives or not, the dog will depend on drugs. There is no quality of life when shoving two, three, four tablets down a relectant dogs throat every day just to keep them alive, when they can just suddenly die.


MillieMoo, what is realistic in your eyes is mean and hurtful in someone else's. I am truly saddened your Truffles had such a severe heart condition, but to advise another to euthanize their fluff because of a heart murmur is just unconscionable. Many here have/had fluffs with heart conditions and they have lived long unencumbered lives. For Millie's sake I hope she never develops a chronic health condition - with your way of thinking her life would be snuffed out to "spare her" a life of taking medication. I don't have a fluff with a heart murmur, I even don't have a fluff, but I do have a pacemaker - maybe I should have been left to die to "spare" me a life taking tablets. 

I hope you are not turned off by the responses directed toward you for your post. Consider these replies a virtual spanking, and move on. If there is a next time you might want to weigh your response before posting.


----------



## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

MillieMoo said:


> You can all give her false hope etc, but her dog is very unwell. Whether you've had good experiences of quality of lives or not, *the dog will depend on drugs.* There is no quality of life when shoving two, three, four *tablets* down a relectant dogs throat every day just to keep them alive, when they can just suddenly die.



OK, I normally stay out of these, but really. I take "tablets" for high blood pressure - maybe I should be put down?:w00t: 

I never had to "shove" tablets down my dog's throat - I found a very effective way of administering her meds that she actually looked forward too. In the end, it wasn't her heart murmur that caused her death, it was kidney failure caused by being an elderly dog. 

OP - please talk with your vet and with the specialist. They will be your best source of information as to how serious this is, and they can advise you on what to do next. A heart murmur isn't a death sentence for anyone, dog or human.


----------



## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

maggieh said:


> OK, I normally stay out of these, but really. I take "tablets" for high blood pressure -* maybe I should be put down?*:w00t:


LMAO ~ :HistericalSmiley:

I love you Maggie!! That comment just really hit my funny bone. LOL

Good heavens, with all our problems, dogs, and human, we should all just walk in a room full of gas. Yep, end it all before we actually die of natural causes.


----------



## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

3Maltmom said:


> LMAO ~ :HistericalSmiley:
> 
> I love you Maggie!! That comment just really hit my funny bone. LOL
> 
> Good heavens, with all our problems, dogs, and human, we should all just walk in a room full of gas. Yep, end it all before we actually die of natural causes.


My husband is taking as much pills than my dog if not more, should I put him down too ?:HistericalSmiley:I had 5 surgeries in my life, maybe my parents should have put me down on the first one then I would not have had to go through the other ones.

But seriously, if Millie Moo has been so traumatized for what happened with Truffles (I can understand this part and am really sorry for her loss) that her judgment is so impaired it would have been better for her not to get another dog. That way she can avoid the trauma to care about a sick dog.


----------



## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

ooh,me too,darned blood pressure...plus I have to take hormone replacement so I don't grow a huge handlebar moustache:w00t:....right now it's a little moustache,ha,ha.

My dogs have it better than me,they don't have to pay for the meds plus they get theirs in a treat... I have to swallow w/o a treat,bleh...:blink:

My Grechen got a shot,once every six months for her heart murmur,then eventually,one pill per day,wrapped in a doggie treat. To her dying day,she looked forward to those treats,w/ or w/o pills in them.

Sure taking pills is no fun, but we're talking a pill or two per day,humanely wrapped in a doggie treat, and they go and play and enjoy themselves...sure beats dead...

After the pill/treat, mine played and walked and enjoyed themselves. Yes Grechen could have went at any time,but she lived 12½ more years. When heart heart started to slow down and she did too,it was time.
It's up to you and your vet and how your fluff handles the murmur. Be prepared for the worst and rejoice in the best.


Right now I don't have any one meds,other than antibiotics that will be done tomorrow.

I fought cancer,vomiting,hair loss,pain and other horrible sensations w/ treatment,a broken neck and losts of other things that almost made me give up.... There were times I wanted to die,but I made it through and so far I feel pretty good. I know what it is to face it and maybe do it all in vain.

I've had fluffs and furries die in my arms,I know that pain well. I did what I thought was best for them and when it became evident they were suffering w/ no hope,I allowed the vet to send them to the bridge. 

Though I did have one that died in my arms suddenly,it was heartbreaking...:crying:


----------



## angelcake (Oct 16, 2010)

angelcake said:


> Hi, I had to take my little baby girl to the vets the other day and I had the fright of my life,Angel is 13mths old and the vet is picking up a slight heart murmur or so she thinks and wer'e now being referred to a heart specialist.I saved up for such a long to buy my little girl and as i'm disabled she has helped me so much with getting me out and have been showing her too and my one and only dream was to have apuppy from her eventually as she is such a beautiful little girl with the most beautiful temperment that was my dream. Now my dreams have been shattered and I spend nearly everyday crying,worried of how this will affect my little girl and her future. I have to wait 3 weeks before I know the situation with her whether good or bad i'm worried to death.
> I trained her up and we both enjoyed going to ringcraft where she excelled and people remarked what a beautiful all round little dog she is. She really likes to strut her stuff in the show ring and we both thouroughly enjoyed all of this,now I don't know whether we will ever see the show ring again. My heart has been torn apart. I've told the breeder but I think I'd better leave that out,really it's just me and Angel. My little girl means everything to me and now I feel so like I wish it was me not my little girl.
> My little girl has always been such a quiet little girl is this why?
> How can I make sure when or if I ever buy another that this won't happen again.x



Hi all just thought you would all like to know the outcome of how the investigations with the heart consultant went. Well wait for it...... The heart consultant told me my baby has no heart disease at all,he told me I would be able to breed her show her do what ever I like with her. I was so delighted that I kissed the heart consultant!! 
Now for even more great news SHE'S PREGNANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My baby girl is due around the 9th December How great is that!!!???
I have been in such a relief of shock,joy,disbelief,crying you name it.
God has answered all my prayers-MY BABY'S OK.
Lots of thanks for all of your kind responses,prayers and well wishes. I don't know how I would of got through it without you all. My love to you all.
HELP I NEED NAMES FOR MY TWO UNBORN PUPPIES xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

angelcake said:


> Now for even more great news SHE'S PREGNANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> My baby girl is due around the 9th December How great is that!!!???
> I have been in such a relief of shock,joy,disbelief,crying you name it.
> God has answered all my prayers-MY BABY'S OK.
> ...


I am really really biting down hard on my tongue, trying to be kind, but ...

You have a girl that you thought had a heart murmur, a potentially very serious condition, and she somehow got bred???? And she's due in less than 2 weeks ... that makes her less than 15 mos. old!!!

I've had intact dogs in my home for years without mishap. The "oops" excuse is getting real old real fast.


----------



## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

I don't know why, but something about this poster smacks of not being real to me... someone likes stirring people up (original post smacked of the my breeder duped me kinda of thread)? I just can't put a finger on it...

If it is real, very very sad. Another post said she had two dogs - a boy and a girl and the girl just turned 1 year old on Oct 16. Hope she's a troll poster or it's just too too sad.

:X


----------



## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

angelcake said:


> Hi all just thought you would all like to know the outcome of how the investigations with the heart consultant went. Well wait for it...... The heart consultant told me my baby has no heart disease at all,he told me I would be able to breed her show her do what ever I like with her. I was so delighted that I kissed the heart consultant!!
> Now for even more great news SHE'S PREGNANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> My baby girl is due around the 9th December How great is that!!!???
> I have been in such a relief of shock,joy,disbelief,crying you name it.
> ...


Glad she doesn't have the murmur :chili: - I'll let others reply to the pregnancy of a young dog you thought was ill.


----------



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

This is really a sad state of affairs and sad that she is so young. Since a dog's gestation is 63 days and your first post was October 24, then it appears that she was already pregnant when you first posted about the possible heart murmur.


----------



## Green444 (Jul 2, 2010)

This is so sad. I feel so sorry for the dog. Mary, I agree with you. I see no excuse for an oops litter. Anyone who has read on this forum or been around dogs knows that a dog that is from six months to a year old has the potential for coming into heat. To further add to this, according to this poster, she has been showing this dog. 

I quote from her first post:
I trained her up and we both enjoyed going to ringcraft where she excelled and people remarked what a beautiful all round little dog she is. She really likes to strut her stuff in the show ring and we both thouroughly enjoyed all of this,now I don't know whether we will ever see the show ring again. 

I don't know a lot about showing. I assume she as going to training classes, but even there, wouldn't she have been with breeders who know about being responsible?


----------



## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Tina said:


> Don't feel doomed yet. Sometimes a heart murmur goes away on its own too. I agree with Michelle, if it is something then medications can be used to help with it. Lots of dogs live with heart murmurs. :hugging:
> 
> 
> thanks tina, this is great news. because I was told my Sammie might have one by a Vet and got a 2nd opinion and he listened to him and said no murmur, and I had them listen again while he had baby teeth removed. I will have him check forever probably just from first one saying he thought he heard slight one.
> ...


----------

