# Raw food



## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Does anyone feed their pups Raw food? The trainer in Abbey's obedience class thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread. She said her dogs coats have become more shiny and healthy and they poop less.... and it's easier to clean up. Is that right?

What are the advantages

and

What are the disadvantages?

Is there a difference between brands?


Sounds very interesting .....


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

Pat, I checked into feeding raw a few months ago and found that both the Centers for Disease Control and the American Veterinary Medical Association advocate AGAINST feeding raw because of the bacteria in it which can be harmful to both you and your pet. I briefly looked for the CDC article and can't find it but I'll keep looking.





Joy


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Wow, really? Huh! ....and she had made it sound so wonderful. 

Guess we won't be switching any time soon.


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## beckinwolf (Sep 2, 2008)

http://www.naturesvariety.com/

I haven't tried it yet, but this is one company that makes a commercial raw diet. They also make dry kibble and canned as well. From what I've read, dogs have such short digestive system that any bacteria doesn't stick around long enough to make them sick. You just have to make sure to use safe handling techniques like you would with any raw food. Disinfecting surfaces where the food touches. This raw diet is also the only one that is AAFCO certified to be complete. Just giving some input. There are other companies that also have raw diets as well. I think one of the others is called Stella's or something.


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

QUOTE (beckinwolf @ Nov 11 2008, 12:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=668424


> http://www.naturesvariety.com/
> 
> I haven't tried it yet, but this is one company that makes a commercial raw diet. They also make dry kibble and canned as well. From what I've read, dogs have such short digestive system that any bacteria doesn't stick around long enough to make them sick. You just have to make sure to use safe handling techniques like you would with any raw food. Disinfecting surfaces where the food touches. This raw diet is also the only one that is AAFCO certified to be complete. Just giving some input. There are other companies that also have raw diets as well. I think one of the others is called Stella's or something.[/B]




That reminded me of another reason I didn't go raw - the dog's feces will have the bacteria in it as well.


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

I used to feed Stella and Chewy freeze dried raw food - much less mess than the frozen/defrosted ones. Whole Dog Journal just wrote about what high quality Stella and Chewy's is - and you can see lab results for bacteria tests on their website! If you want to try raw, this is the one to try in my opinion. http://www.stellaandchewys.com/

But, after getting high bile acid test results, our veterinary nutritionist advised against feeding raw since their livers might not be able to appropriately cleanse the bacteria. So no more raw in our house.....

Two kibbles that are closer to raw, without being raw, are Orijen and Evo. I just got the Orijen 6 Fresh Fish Formula and boy does it smell like fish! Stuart loves it. It is higher in protein (44%) and a little higher in fat (18%), but he eats much less and yes, the poo is much smaller and less stinky (same as with raw). Normally I wouldn't feed such a high protein to a maltese, but since its fish, I am a bit less concerned and am incorporating it into his food.

Good luck!


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

I tried switching Jax to raw, and he LOVED it!

However, his runny poop was NOT fun! I ended up having to take him to the vet to get some antibiotic to reset his system.

We're back on regular kibble - it works for us! 

I'm sure raw is good, but it just didn't work for us!


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Pat, I feed Bonnie Stella and Chewy's freeze dried raw. She loves it and it's very high quality. In fact, every once in awhile I get to thinking about changing her food and recently called the store that I buy her food from. They carry a lot of brands, and they said that Stella and Chewy's is the top food.
Oh, and her poop? Practically odorless and nice and firm. I know each dog is different, but that's Bonnie.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

I use to exclusively feed raw to mine - Natures Variety but of course my picky ones tired of it. KCee will eat it fine and Snoopy devours it. Dogs process food a bit differently than humans and they have the enzymes necessary to handle the raw. We on the other hand have a slower digestive system then dogs and cannot handle the bacteria. I do keep Stella & Chewy's on hand and also sell it. It is much of a less mess then the frozen. The stool from the raw comes out dry and small because the dogs are absorbing most of the nutrients. I would make sure though that your fluff has a healthy liver before feeding them raw. The prey model is even better for them but mine just looked at me like I was crazy when I tried feeding them that. Snoopy on the other hand got rid of his skin allergies eating the prey model. JMHO


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

Pat, I've been looking for some of the credible resources I found when I was doing some digging. I thought I added them as favorites somewhere but I can't find them. I had a good one from the FDA which included warnings against feeding raw but I can't find it.

Here's an article from the American Animal Hospital Association:

AAHA's position on raw diets



This one from petplace.com lists some of the pros and cons:

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/raw-meat-deba...-dog/page1.aspx



EDITED TO ADD:

Here's a link to a portion of the book Puppy's First Steps from the Faculty of the Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine at Tufts University:

From Tuft's Puppy's First Steps


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

QUOTE (vjw @ Nov 11 2008, 04:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=668614


> Pat, I've been looking for some of the credible resources I found when I was doing some digging. I thought I added them as favorites somewhere but I can't find them. I had a good one from the FDA which included warnings against feeding raw but I can't find it.
> 
> Here's an article from the American Animal Hospital Association:
> 
> ...


On to read the rest. I have read alot of credible sites for the pros let me go read more of the cons. Btw my vet said as long as the raw is balanced she approves.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

Here are some links for you to read up on Pat.
http://rawfed.com/myths/
http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_Diet/thread/511303
http://www.rawlearning.com/
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/index.html
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

Please make sure your fluffs are not liver compromised before starting on a raw diet.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

I've had mine on Dr. Harvey's for a few months. I just recently tried to switch them to Stella and Chewy's because with my hours, the freeze dried patties are a God send. And from all that I've read, it really is a great way to go. I chose Stella & Chewy's because of the freeze drying process they use to eliminate any harmful pathogens. And I really like the fact that they test EVERY batch and you can check it on their website! I didn't transition them since I had run out of Dr. Harvey's  and Zoe did GREAT!! Jett on the other hand had pretty nasty gas and the runs on day 2 of the switch. Luckly my order from Dr.H's came in. Rainy from Animal Essentials told me that some dogs just need the grains while others do beautifully, even better without them. She suggested I use some cooked oatmeal until Dr. H's came in. Thankfully as soon as I added Dr. H's to S&C's raw, his runny pooh and gas cleared up immediately. So I'm transitioning Jett. He gets 1/2 patty and 1/8 cup Dr. H's (no meat added) and it's going great. I may keep them on that and only use S&C's when I'm here late at the store and don't want to worry about refrigeration.

As far as worrying about cross contamination and harmful bacteria to you, it's no different than handling raw meat that you are preparing for your family. And I can't imagine anyone not washing their hands after cleaning up after their dog.


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

QUOTE (LuvMyFurbaby @ Nov 11 2008, 05:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=668627


> QUOTE (vjw @ Nov 11 2008, 04:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=668614





> Pat, I've been looking for some of the credible resources I found when I was doing some digging. I thought I added them as favorites somewhere but I can't find them. I had a good one from the FDA which included warnings against feeding raw but I can't find it.
> 
> Here's an article from the American Animal Hospital Association:
> 
> ...


On to read the rest. I have read alot of credible sites for the pros let me go read more of the cons. Btw my vet said as long as the raw is balanced she approves.
[/B][/QUOTE]



Maggie, from some of the veterinary nutrition info. research I've read I'm not yet convinced that Science Diet and Eukanuba are the horrible foods they've been made out to be. Still checking it out though.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

I think to each his own, I just wouldn't give it, I'm happy on Natural balance :biggrin: I mean Nemo is.
I think there are pros and cons, but it's just not for us


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## cindy6755 (Mar 20, 2005)

I feed mine The Honest Kitchen Thrive formula. Its a dehydrated raw food, they have a few differant formulas. I usually add some whole ground chicken or turkey to it (raw) All of mine do wonderful on it, even one of my fosters that had IBD and colitis, his poops are now normal.


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## lovesophie (Jan 28, 2008)

QUOTE (2MaltMom @ Nov 11 2008, 06:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=668326


> Does anyone feed their pups Raw food? The trainer in Abbey's obedience class thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread. She said her dogs coats have become more shiny and healthy and they poop less.... and it's easier to clean up. Is that right?
> 
> What are the advantages
> 
> ...


My fluffs are HUGE fans of raw. They gobble that stuff up like there's no tomorrow! I feed mine Primal Raw (duck and lamb) and Stella & Chewy's freeze dried (lamb). I actually prefer the Stella & Chewy's freeze dried, since it's a lot more convenient than the frozen, but it's so expensive!! A small bag containing 12 or so patties costs about $13 around here. 

Advantages: delicious taste; small, firm, non-smelly poop (on kibble, Sophie used to have the smelliest poop, and she'd go like 4 times a day, and now, my pups only go once a day); raw is supposed to reflect what wolves eat (I guess this being good or bad is rather subjective); no mats (I'm not sure if this has anything to do with raw, but I only brush my pups like once a week when I bathe them, and I very rarely find mats, if any at all!)

Disadvantages: very expensive; sanitary issues (I have to fork feed my babies, wipe their mouths thoroughly, and clean up thoroughly afterwards); inconvenience (having to defrost the prepackaged frozen every night can become a hassle)

That's all I can think of for now.  

I personally love feeding raw, and I've never encountered any problems with it, so I'll continue to do so.  

Hope that helps!


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## edwardsupandy (Aug 2, 2007)

I find this link is very intersting. Please read the articles and you'll find why raw food can be harmful. I used to think about giving raw too but after I read the articles in this link, I changed my mind and decided to not ake the risk!

http://www.secondchanceranch.org/rawtestimony.htm


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## 1malt4me (Oct 6, 2006)

I am not a big fan of raw. I think it is a little messy.


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

QUOTE (edwardsupandy @ Nov 14 2008, 07:22 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=670280


> I find this link is very intersting. Please read the articles and you'll find why raw food can be harmful. I used to think about giving raw too but after I read the articles in this link, I changed my mind and decided to not ake the risk!
> 
> http://www.secondchanceranch.org/rawtestimony.htm[/B]



Thank you so much for posting that link - I added it to my favorites! I clicked on the topics in the tan shaded area and this information is exactly what I've read from some credible veterinarian's books/resources.




Joy


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## edwardsupandy (Aug 2, 2007)

QUOTE (vjw @ Nov 14 2008, 03:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=670315


> QUOTE (edwardsupandy @ Nov 14 2008, 07:22 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=670280





> I find this link is very intersting. Please read the articles and you'll find why raw food can be harmful. I used to think about giving raw too but after I read the articles in this link, I changed my mind and decided to not ake the risk!
> 
> http://www.secondchanceranch.org/rawtestimony.htm[/B]



Thank you so much for posting that link - I added it to my favorites! I clicked on the topics in the tan shaded area and this information is exactly what I've read from some credible veterinarian's books/resources.




Joy
[/B][/QUOTE]
You're welcome. Glad that the information is what you're looking for. Glad that this forum can help us to find some more useful information.


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## Big Sky Country (Oct 12, 2008)

Thank you for the information. My vet started Baylor on a rotation diet of Natures Variety and he eats about 1.5-2 oz daily I also use the dry food in between. I am very careful and thaw only what I need for the day and his dishes both food and water are washed daily. He eats a teaspoon of yogurt daily and loves fresh fruit and vegi, cottage cheese and scrambled eggs are a real treat for him I'm sure the added cheddar helps. I like the raw food but handle it no different than I would any other frozen meat it is never left for an extended time if he does not eat within 10 minutes I pick it up. He likes all the meats but I hate the smell of the Venison. The rotation diet works for us; http://www.naturesvariety.com/rotation. I'm going to forward the information to our vet and see what her feed back is and what her reasoning is for prescribing. 

Lori and Baylor

[attachment=44503:sleeping_angel.JPG]


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## CeeCee's Mom (Sep 14, 2006)

Pat, at the insistance of a breeder that I taked to (NOT CeeCee's breeder), she wanted me to try the raw frozen dog food. I tried it for less than one week and I stopped. It plainly said to be sure and wash your hands good after handleing the raw food. I got to thinking about that and bacteria and I decided not to go there. Some people believe in it so much but not me. I would not eat raw food and I don't want my baby to eat it either. It is just a personal decision and for those that want to, that is fine.


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## TheMunchkin (Oct 18, 2008)

QUOTE (vjw @ Nov 11 2008, 09:12 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=668430


> That reminded me of another reason I didn't go raw - the dog's feces will have the bacteria in it as well.[/B]


Hi! Just wanted to let you know that all feces--no matter what diet--has bacteria in it.


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

QUOTE (TheMunchkin @ Apr 7 2009, 05:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=758873


> QUOTE (vjw @ Nov 11 2008, 09:12 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=668430





> That reminded me of another reason I didn't go raw - the dog's feces will have the bacteria in it as well.[/B]


Hi! Just wanted to let you know that all feces--no matter what diet--has bacteria in it. 
[/B][/QUOTE]



You're correct - canine feces does have quite a lot of microbial flora (bacteria) in it. Most of us are familiar with E. Coli. The concerns with raw diets are about PATHOGENIC bacteria which are NOT a part of the dogs normal intestinal flora. Here's an article which lists the potential pathogens with feeding raw:

Raw Diets




Joy


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## sm1964 (Feb 6, 2009)

I've been using BRAVO frozen for 2 years and have not had any problems. I buy the frozen, raw Turkey burgers and Calvin loves them. I mix them with Bravo pureed veggies and he's good to go. The poop is odorless and nice and firm.


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## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

Miss Pat, 

Our vet suggested a raw diet to us and to be honest I did not pay any attention so I can't really tell you what brand he recommended. I did not pay any attention because my husband and I travel quite a bit on weekends in the summer and winter and that requires Hunter to be on a diet that can travel with us. While some of the places we go to it would be easy to leave a supply of food there (such as my mom's ski condo) I could not fathom what we would do in medical emergencies with my husband which require us to hand Hunter over to friends for 24-48 hours. While he has never been kenneled, some in our are will not feed raw foods.

That's my two cents.

Erin


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

U C Davis, a number two ranked veterinary school, and a school which has the largest veterinary residency in nutrition put this video on itunesu a few days ago. Note what Dr. Fascetti says about feeding raw:



U C Davis video about dog foods






Joy


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

QUOTE (Hunter's Mom @ Apr 7 2009, 09:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=758957


> Miss Pat,
> 
> Our vet suggested a raw diet to us and to be honest I did not pay any attention so I can't really tell you what brand he recommended. I did not pay any attention because my husband and I travel quite a bit on weekends in the summer and winter and that requires Hunter to be on a diet that can travel with us. While some of the places we go to it would be easy to leave a supply of food there (such as my mom's ski condo) I could not fathom what we would do in medical emergencies with my husband which require us to hand Hunter over to friends for 24-48 hours. While he has never been kenneled, some in our are will not feed raw foods.
> 
> ...


You can always try Stella & Chewy's freeze dried those are very convenient when traveling no refrigeration required. You can either re-hydrate it or serve it as is.


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## lovesophie (Jan 28, 2008)

QUOTE (LuvMyFurbaby @ Apr 7 2009, 07:29 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=758982


> QUOTE (Hunter's Mom @ Apr 7 2009, 09:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=758957





> Miss Pat,
> 
> Our vet suggested a raw diet to us and to be honest I did not pay any attention so I can't really tell you what brand he recommended. I did not pay any attention because my husband and I travel quite a bit on weekends in the summer and winter and that requires Hunter to be on a diet that can travel with us. While some of the places we go to it would be easy to leave a supply of food there (such as my mom's ski condo) I could not fathom what we would do in medical emergencies with my husband which require us to hand Hunter over to friends for 24-48 hours. While he has never been kenneled, some in our are will not feed raw foods.
> 
> ...


You can always try Stella & Chewy's freeze dried those are very convenient when traveling no refrigeration required. You can either re-hydrate it or serve it as is.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I agree. When my boyfriend and I went to Tahoe for a few days, I brought Sophie with us, and I fed her the S&C freeze-dried. Very convenient! :thumbsup:


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Casanova likes the Stella & Chewy's; unfortunatey he started having bouts of diarrhea soon afterward. I have no idea what caused it (could have been anything- he does lick everything in sight), but to me having been through these episodes, I do not think it's worth it to do raw. I also thought it was a pain to have to wash his face everytime he ate the food...I just don't want to have to think about bacteria everytime I goto kiss him on his little face!


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## mymalt (Apr 3, 2009)

Percy is 2 1/2 yrs and has been eating ground raw since I got him at 12 weeks. He also eats some home cooked for variety. Some people don't like handling the raw, some find the concept difficult to handle, and some find it hard to get past the bacteria issue. Holistic vets believe the order of quality food for dogs is...#1- Raw, #2-Home cooked, #3-Canned, #4-Top quality dry, #5-Poor quality dry. My last yorkie lived healthy on a diet of quality dry dog food for 17yrs. Could we have gotten a few more years out of her had she been fed raw? Maybe, maybe not, but we think 17yrs was pretty good. Probably the majority of traditional vets are against raw feeding, but some are open to that form of feeding. All would agree that not every dog's system is agreeable to raw and some believe it should not be fed to old dogs with weaker immune systems. Introduction to raw feeding should be done slowly over a two week period. Being overzealous can lead to loose poops. Pros: dogs eat less food, digests faster, low poop odor, smaller/firmer poop, more muscular bodies
Cons: If you have a dog in coat, it can stain the beard. I use a homemade snood, but between the raw food and the raw chew bones around the house, Percy still has a little staining.

In the end, everyone needs to feed what they are comfortable with and what they can provide. Many start feeding raw because they believe, read, or hear it is best, but do not stick with it because they really are not 100% comfortable. Feed what YOU believe is best for your dog.

Diane


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