# Most common fault in the breed?



## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

Does anyone know (or could guess) what would be the most common fault in the Maltese breed? 

As no dog is perfect (except ours here, lol!), surely there is one (or are some)..even with show dogs?


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## angelgirl599 (Apr 8, 2009)

I don't know if this is the most common as some babies are lucky not to have them but it does pop up a lot in the forum...anyway, up until a month or two ago, Lola's tearstains drove me up a wall :smpullhair:

All new hair is growing in white but I was convinced I would never conquer tearstains when I got her.
I don't know if this is a fault, per se, outside of an infections or blocked tear ducts, I don't think the tearstains really bother them as much as they bother us.


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## waggybaby (Jul 28, 2009)

I agree!! Sasha isn't bothered a bit by her tear staining but it does make me crazy!! :smpullhair:


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

Rylee is th eonly one,out of the 4 that have it really bad. The others I just clean the eye area a little bit every couple days and no problems.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Eye stain isn't necessarily a fault but a condition that can usually be remedied one way or another.

Do you mean what fault that would keep them from the showring or just a common fault?
Bad bites will definitely keep a dog from the showring. Bad fronts might also although fronts
can be in degrees of being off.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

QUOTE (Cosy @ Feb 18 2010, 12:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887401


> Eye stain isn't necessarily a fault but a condition that can usually be remedies one way or another.
> 
> Do you mean what fault that would keep them from the showring or just a common fault?
> Bad bites will definitely keep a dog from the showring. Bad fronts might also although fronts
> can be in degrees of being off.[/B]


Brit, what do you mean by bad front? I assume you don't mean an unattractive face? :HistericalSmiley: (When I was single, people used to tell me that my roommate looks good "from the back")

I feel like I see alot of pets from show breeders with un-level toplines. Most of the pets spoken the most regretfully about by breeders to me were ones whose bites went off. What about a retained testicle? Doesn't that disqualify the dog from being shown?


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

I think bites and undescended testicles are the most 'common' physical reasons why a dog being kept for show is later placed as a pet. 

A very interesting article was just shared on a show breeder list regarding bites but of course it's not online anymore, GRR. I'll have to see if I can track it down. it was very informative.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

Bites go off a lot when the dam and sire have different muzzle lengths. I think breeders give the pups with poor bites to pet homes on purpose because they need to keep the perfect ones for showing/breeding. 
I know retained testicles is very common in a couple of breeds but I've only heard one malt that has had one. 
Most dogs(large and small) tear, but it's most noticable with white dogs. I know yorkies with worst staining than half the maltese on this forum.
I don't see an issue with un-level toplines in pets unless the backs start looking more like a Bedlington Terrier's :new_shocked: : http://www.bedlington.fr/bedlington-terrie...00000001800.jpg


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Feb 18 2010, 03:56 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887495


> Bites go off a lot when the dam and sire have different muzzle lengths. I think breeders give the pups with poor bites to pet homes on purpose because they need to keep the perfect ones for showing/breeding.
> I know retained testicles is very common in a couple of breeds but I've only heard one malt that has had one.
> Most dogs(large and small) tear, but it's most noticable with white dogs. I know yorkies with worst staining than half the maltese on this forum.
> I don't see an issue with un-level toplines unless the backs start looking more like a Bedlington Terrier's :new_shocked: : http://www.bedlington.fr/bedlington-terrie...00000001800.jpg[/B]


It's not really 'on purpose', it is more you don't want to keep a bad bite in your breeding program, so those puppies with bite issues are sold as pets. If you can't show a bite, you definitely don't want to breed it. Same with testicles. The article I was trying to find states that there are two separate genes for the bottom and top jaw and that is what gives you the undershot or overshot mouth etc, and the best way to reduce your number of bites issues is to line breed. It's not entirely blamable on just one set of genes, which often happens.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Feb 18 2010, 05:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887497


> QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Feb 18 2010, 03:56 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887495





> Bites go off a lot when the dam and sire have different muzzle lengths. I think breeders give the pups with poor bites to pet homes on purpose because they need to keep the perfect ones for showing/breeding.
> I know retained testicles is very common in a couple of breeds but I've only heard one malt that has had one.
> Most dogs(large and small) tear, but it's most noticable with white dogs. I know yorkies with worst staining than half the maltese on this forum.
> I don't see an issue with un-level toplines unless the backs start looking more like a Bedlington Terrier's :new_shocked: : http://www.bedlington.fr/bedlington-terrie...00000001800.jpg[/B]


It's not really 'on purpose', it is more you don't want to keep a bad bite in your breeding program, so those puppies with bite issues are sold as pets. If you can't show a bite, you definitely don't want to breed it. Same with testicles. The article I was trying to find states that there are two separate genes for the bottom and top jaw and that is what gives you the undershot or overshot mouth etc, and the best way to reduce your number of bites issues is to line breed. It's not entirely blamable on just one set of genes, which often happens.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I know what article you're talking about but I can't find it anymore either.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

You can't show a dog with no testicle. 
Bad fronts can vary from front legs crossing each other when walking to a bull dog front.
The proper front is front legs straight ahead parallel to each other. Watch fronts sometime.


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

The worst fault with them in my house is that I can't hug them as hard as I want!!! :smmadder: .....but I make up for that with kisses.  


...do a lot of malts have luxating patellas? does that count? Out of three I have one with bad legs. The other two are perfect (in my eyes).


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

QUOTE (shanghaimomma @ Feb 17 2010, 08:45 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887201


> Does anyone know (or could guess) what would be the most common fault in the Maltese breed?
> 
> As no dog is perfect (except ours here, lol!), surely there is one (or are some)..even with show dogs?[/B]




Do you mean conformational/physical faults or diseases/disorders faults?


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

Thank you Stacey and Brit for the information.

I was referring to physical/conformational faults like a bite, unlevel top line, high back etc..(not tear stains as I don't see those as a fault necessarily) but things like an uneven back, top line, front or bite that were not to standard. 

That's very interesting to hear that there would be 2 sets of genes for the top and lower jaws instead of one.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

QUOTE (shanghaimomma @ Feb 18 2010, 06:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887547


> That's very interesting to hear that there would be 2 sets of genes for the top and lower jaws instead of one.[/B]



Hmmm..........I have a hard time with that. :brownbag:


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

I have scanned and saved the article in .pdf format. If you are interested in reading it send me a PM with your email address and I will email the article to you.

MaryH


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Feb 19 2010, 03:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887843


> QUOTE (shanghaimomma @ Feb 18 2010, 06:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887547





> That's very interesting to hear that there would be 2 sets of genes for the top and lower jaws instead of one.[/B]



Hmmm..........I have a hard time with that. :brownbag:
[/B][/QUOTE]




Me too! but there's older articles online which state it was/is? thought the mandible and maxilla, which are the top and bottom jaw bones, are under separate genetic control. Some of these articles mention studies from the early 19*40*s, so I'd be interested in knowing if the article posted online on the breeder list is a current one and whether or not it mentions current genetic studies.

I have a harder time believing that linebreeding is recommended to correct a malocclusion unless the family member dog being bred to the maloccluded dog is a really superior canine specimen and has normal occlusions. If malocclusions (bite faults) are heritable and they're caused by recessive genes, seems like you'd be at risk for having puppies with malocclusions if you linebreed. 

If it's current, I'm curious about this article which was on the breeder list. One reason I'm interested in the genetics of the jawbones is that years ago my Dad had cancer of his mandible. They removed the cancerous portion of his mandible and grafted in a piece of his forearm (radius) in the missing space of the mandible. There were no problems whatsoever with the graft. One reason they used the forearm is that prior to his mandibular cancer, he had a stroke which left him paralyzed on one side. They grafted bone from the paralyzed forearm to the mandible because he doesn't use the arm.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

QUOTE (vjw @ Feb 19 2010, 08:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887986


> QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Feb 19 2010, 03:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887843





> QUOTE (shanghaimomma @ Feb 18 2010, 06:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887547





> That's very interesting to hear that there would be 2 sets of genes for the top and lower jaws instead of one.[/B]



Hmmm..........I have a hard time with that. :brownbag: 
[/B][/QUOTE]

[/B][/QUOTE]

*"Bites go off a lot when the dam and sire have different muzzle lengths." *this quote from ilovemymaltese in another post is what I was having a hard time with actually.

I was thinking it must be more complex. Poly--many--genes. I also believe the late (not born with, or 6-7 mo.) "going off" of bite must be connected to when and how the new teeth come in. But of course that is also genetic--different genes, but their genes determine it. It could, I would guess, also be effected by physical or environmental things like how they nurse or for how long--like a skin child who sucks it's thumb--etc. Maybe?

I'm always a little leary of too much or too long of a line breeding, or what borders on inbreeding, but from that article I can see more clearly the reasons. I still like the idea of 'fresh blood' somewhere along the line. Even though I can see where it may set a breeding program back for a while.

I'm not trying to make a study of genetics in dogs, but it is interesting to hear what differnet researchers have come up with. I'm just glad I'm not having to make those breeding decisions.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Feb 20 2010, 12:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=888150


> QUOTE (vjw @ Feb 19 2010, 08:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887986





> QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Feb 19 2010, 03:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887843





> QUOTE (shanghaimomma @ Feb 18 2010, 06:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=887547





> That's very interesting to hear that there would be 2 sets of genes for the top and lower jaws instead of one.[/B]



Hmmm..........I have a hard time with that. :brownbag: 
[/B][/QUOTE]

[/B][/QUOTE]

*"Bites go off a lot when the dam and sire have different muzzle lengths." *this quote from ilovemymaltese in another post is what I was having a hard time with actually.
[/B][/QUOTE]

That's what I've heard many times, some from here, some from others from breeders. But I would think it would be more complicated, just like a malt's weight. I've heard many malts grow oversized, even when they have small parents.


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## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

My recent rescue, Butch/Poochie/Chewie, is of unknown origin, and large with a long-ish muzzle so I thought he might be a mix. But he has tiny Maltese-sized teeth in that long muzzle. At least they aren't crowded!


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I've seen newborn pups with their bites off, so I don't think suckling has much if anything to do with it.
I do believe it's separated by lower and upper jaw genes being separate. 
What really gets me is you can see crowded teeth in a moderate muzzle (mouth) and in a tiny mouth
such as Cosy's, the teeth are quite normal and straight. Those crazy teeth are what get me.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

QUOTE (Cosy @ Feb 20 2010, 03:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=888273


> *I've seen newborn pups with their bites off, so I don't think suckling has much if anything to do with it.*
> I do believe it's separated by lower and upper jaw genes being separate.
> What really gets me is you can see crowded teeth in a moderate muzzle (mouth) and in a tiny mouth
> such as Cosy's, the teeth are quite normal and straight. Those crazy teeth are what get me.[/B]



Brit what I said about nursing was "I also believe *the late (not born with, or 6-7 mo.) "going off"* of bite must be connected to when and how the new teeth come in. But of course that is also genetic--different genes, but their genes determine it.* It could, I would guess, also be effected by physical or environmental things* *like how they nurse or for how long*--like a skin child who sucks it's thumb--etc. Maybe?


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

Banning linebreeding in Oregon: http://www.leg.state.or.us/09reg/measpdf/h...b2986.intro.pdf


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Feb 21 2010, 12:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=888485


> Banning linebreeding in Oregon: http://www.leg.state.or.us/09reg/measpdf/h...b2986.intro.pdf[/B]


that says banning INBREEDING, not linebreeding. Inbreeding is very close relatives (mom/son, father/daughter, siblings) where as linebreeding would be more Aunt/nephew, cousin/cousin, etc


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

I'm in Oregon and hope to see any law that would put a clamp on mills or unethical breeding practices passed. However, not knowing anything about breeding, I don't know if this proposal is a good one or not. I doubt it would pass anyway. B)


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