# Casey Anthony Trial...



## CharmingDior

Just curious to know what everyone thinks...or am I the only one watching it, LOL?:blush:


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## harrysmom

I'm following on twitter and occasionally I watch for a few minutes. I have no idea what to think. I think that the whole family has major issues and I don't trust any of their testimony. I just feel so bad for that little girl. She was definitely born into the wrong family. I'm just very glad that I'm not on that jury. What do you think?


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## michellerobison

Watching too,since I have a Criminal Justice and Psych background.I love the watching the "tells" while people testify or in some cases...testa-lie....
I think she will be found guilty,of what depends on if they can impeach Cindy Anthony's alleged claim to the cholroform searches. I think she testa-lied to put reasonable doubt on the premeditation and that would possibly negate the death penalty . 
But premeditation can be formed in minutes before a crime so hard to say what they will use as a qualifier....

She could still get felony murder,the chloroform can be an aggrivating factor,felonious assault,depraved indifference...can still bump it up to death penalty...

Sad....if only they let Casey put Caylee up for adoption,she'd still be alive today.
I belive in making someone take responsibility for their actions,but not when it involves a living being,either a baby or a pet. You can't force someone to be a parent ,you can't force someone to take care of a pet. They were all selfish and narrow sighted and now an innocent baby is dead...

My step son,everytime he's gotten a pet,as a child or an adult,if I didn't take them in and care for them,they'd end up dead.

You just can't play those kind of "take responsibility or else" games w/ a living being...


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## aprilb

I have watched it off and on. I believe that Casey is guilty. There are so many lies and inconsistencies in her case and the Defense only has to create "reasonable" doubt. IMHO, I think they failed to do this. I cannot imagine the pain her parents must feel. It can make you crazy. I am speculating that Cindy, even though she probably believes Casey is guilty, does not want to see her get the death penalty, because she would then lose her daughter as well as her grand daughter, hence her testimony about her search on chlorophyll. So sad.:mellow:


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## michellerobison

I wouldn't want to be in the position to realize my child is the one who murdered my grand child. 
Monsters are born and somewhat created but I don't think abuse created the monster she is. It can nurture a monster but I don't think that alone created one...


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## Snowbody

I haven't watched much of it other than what's on the news. I think Floridians have been glued to it.
I totally agree with April. It's like the defense is throwing everything out there to see what will stick...although it doesn't even have to stick...just raise reasonable doubt. :angry: When I saw the pix of Casey partying while her child was missing, that was the end for me. And to top it off that she had probably killed her child. All I could think of was psychopath thru this whole horrible ordeal. I do wish that Caylee hadn't been born to her or had been given up for adoption. That poor beautiful baby of a girl. :smcry: I think she'll be found guilty.


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## Cosy

I think she has had very poor representation and the reasonable doubt possibly could have been shown. I think she abused this child by using chloraform to sedate her when her Xanax ran out. She OD'd on it and died. Child abuse and neglect. That's what will stick, I believe. Her family is a trainwreck from all this, but then, what family wouldn't be.


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## lynda

I have been watching it and I do believe she is guilty. Maybe not of 1st degree cause I don't necessarily think it was planned but I do think she had been sedating that precious child for quite awhile and that is what killed her. i will be totally dumbfounded if the jury does not come back with a guilty verdict.


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## CharmingDior

I have been watching this entire saga unfold since the time little Caylee went "missing" and I must say that the entire thing is quite sad! I honestly believe that she will be found guilty of murder...to what degree is still unknown for me. I would argue for premeditated first degree for many reasons...

There are many things I have wondered since the "truth" came out in the defense's case. 
One thing that bothers me is the blatant lies that Casey has told since the very beginning. I believe she had a priority list that did not include being a mother. I also believe she may have been jealous of the attention her daughter was receiving from the family. But, the ultimate reason I believe little Caylee's life ended was due to her developing ability to talk to people. Throughout the trial we have been told that Caylee was with "Zanny the Nanny" and Casey would be off to her imaginary job at Universal...but, now we all know that this nanny did not exist, so WHERE WAS CAYLEE?:angry: Is it a possibility that Caylee was finally able to tell people where she really was while her mother was lying to everyone? 

I have to agree with Michelle and say that Cindy testa-lied on behalf of her daughter and to some degree I do understand where that conflict comes from. Those chloroform/chlorophyll searches just do not sit right with me. They were made just 8 and 26 seconds after someone checked their Myspace and Facebook accounts. Cindy admitted that she does not have any social network accounts....hmmmm. I do believe that George testa-lied about the affair but, I am not sure whether it was an emotional or sexual affair. There are some things that really make me question that. The "best" text for the defense they could find was him saying, "I need you in my life." His suicide letter is not him admitting to anything regarding Caylee's death. And he wrote a letter to his "alleged mistress" mentioning trying to get in contact with her through her family and HUSBAND:blink:...oh yea, and he also ended the letter with both his name and Cindy's...maybe, she wanted to sleep with him and he declined. And it just "snowballed" from there. :smilie_tischkante:

I am not a mother but I have been sexually abused and I must say that I do NOT under any circumstances allow my abuser to even catch a glimpse of my child...let alone live together or spend time alone. Oh yea, and I am not going to tell my abuser that they have been the "best dad and grandfather". I don't think he molested her as a child for one second!

I am not sure if you guys have caught this or not but, have you heard the witness that came out to the prosecution saying that she had a cell next to Casey and they would talk. The lady had a son that drowned in the swimming pool and her father, the little boy's grandfather, found the little boy and the police were called. The witness was arrested for a traffic violation, not the accidental drowning of her son. (The state has been investigating it as the trial goes on.) I just thought this was CRAZY:blink:! I mean Casey has the amazing ability to take small facts or details about other people and spin them into a sticky web of lies. Is it possible that she did that again with this "accidental drowning" theory? 

Sorry for the long rant! LOL...future lawyer here and I just couldn't help myself.:blush:


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## kathym

michellerobison said:


> I wouldn't want to be in the position to realize my child is the one who murdered my grand child.
> Monsters are born and somewhat created but I don't think abuse created the monster she is. It can nurture a monster but I don't think that alone created one...[/QUO
> 
> 
> Very well said..


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## CharmingDior

Oh yea, as a Floridian I do believe she will escape this trial with her life. We don't typically put women to death. I am against the death penalty, however, some cases make you question your better judgement.


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## kathym

There is a God above ...What she did to that beautiful child and to her family even if they are dysfunctional is a poor excuse..She will pay one way or another...Death is to easy ..Sitting in jail for her will be worse...


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## CharmingDior

kathym said:


> There is a God above ...What she did to that beautiful child and to her family even if they are dysfunctional is a poor excuse..She will pay one way or another...Death is to easy ..Sitting in jail for her will be worse...


I will have to agree with you and say she will pay now (this life) or later (the after life)!:mellow:

ADDED:
Unfortunately, I believe there are more and more dysfunctional families in the world and especially in America. I have a dysfunctional family and to be honest if something like this were to break out in the family....it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the same reactions and denial the Anthony family is going through would be the exact same in my family. brownbag:Not proud of that but, it is what it is.) I am not very close with my family although it is HUGE...but, my cousins and brothers all agree that we will change this with our children.


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## Cosy

I can totally understand the lying to help save their daughter's life, even if they KNOW she did it. The loss of two is probably more than that family can stand.
I'm not so certain this family was so dysfunctional before all of this. Spoiling a
daughter doesn't mean she will be capable of murder. I would guess Casey is
and always has been disturbed. It's possible the parents didn't see this side of
her until it was too late.


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## michellerobison

I'm not a mother either,other than a step mother and as one sexually abused myself,I've nver had the compunction to murder my step son,though his actions do tick me off....
As someone w/ a criminal justice and psych background,I've seen people claim sexual abuse or any abuse AFTER the fact to mitigate ,not generally before they get caught.
I've seen people make a murder look like an accident,I've never seen an accident made to look like a murder....

I think since they just busted Cindy's testa-lie,I think premeditation is still on the table..
I think she will be found guilty of a less included charge of manslaughter but w/ aggrevating circumstances of aggrevated child abuse or aggrevated assaul,IE the Choloform and could still be death penalty imposed..
Murder 1 is harder to proove,even though it should be that,it would be easier to reverse on appeal. Manslaughter and aggrevating circumstances will be harder to appeal since the burden of proof is lower...

If she accidentally OD her on Chloroform and made it look like an accident,she wouldn't have gone partying and getting tatooed,which stil tells me it was premeditated murder,but I'd vote manslaughter and aggrevating circumstances to less chances of a reveral on appeal...
We'll have to see now....


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## lynda

To add further, I think the judge in this case is fantastic, the prosecutor excellent and the defense attorney, well he leaves a lot to be desired.


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## aprilb

Cosy said:


> I can totally understand the lying to help save their daughter's life, even if they KNOW she did it. The loss of two is probably more than that family can stand.
> I'm not so certain this family was so dysfunctional before all of this. Spoiling a
> daughter doesn't mean she will be capable of murder. I would guess Casey is
> and always has been disturbed. It's possible the parents didn't see this side of
> her until it was too late.


:goodpost:


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## michellerobison

CharmingDior said:


> Oh yea, as a Floridian I do believe she will escape this trial with her life. We don't typically put women to death. I am against the death penalty, however, some cases make you question your better judgement.


Only two women,older women and one lesbain ,the Black Widow who used arsenic to killer her husband and she also drowned her paralized some and Eileen Wuornos who murdered several men.

Being that Casey is pretty and young it might be tougher. People tend to give the death penalty to those they feel are less desirable...To me it shouldn't matter ,it should be applied equally.

As a former Floridian and hopefully future Floridian again,I dont' want to pay to keep someone like that incarcerated...

She imposed the death penalty on Caylee, a helpless toddler... w/o benefit of a any trial,so what ggod is ther in paying all those thousands and hundreds of thousands to keep her in prison?

Mean I know....


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## michellerobison

I do wish they'd quit having sooooo mannnyyyy commercials!!!! Driving me nutts,those advertisers sure are taking advantage of the prime time viewers!!!!!

Maybe we can charge them w/ an assault on the senses,some even first dsgree eye slaughter? If I see one more Reverse Mortage commercial by another hasbeen actor,my head will explode!!!!!!


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## spookiesmom

But what I really, really DONT understand is, and this will sound wrong, is, why all the media attention on this case? I sound heartless, but people young and old are killed every day. Mom drove the mini van in a lake, drown the kids. Mom held baby under water. Dad beat the kid. I don't see national exposure on those? Distraut ex spouse kills........ Can somebody explain this? Because it's Florida, home of pregnant dimples?


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## michellerobison

Probably becasue she's young,white and pretty.
Probably since it was thought to be a kidnapping too.

I think Cindy should face purgery charges. If it had been a couple little white lies or a slight bending of the truth,one can excuse it for her daughter's sake. But if Casey would have gotten off totally because of those lies...what would happen? She'd probably end up pregnant again and you'd have another murder for sure....
Plus her lies cost the state of Florida THOUSANDS to find out the truth,fly in experts and could have gotten a murder off. If nothing else,they should send Cindy the BILL!

George lied but it didn't jeapordize the case,Cindy's lies,although misguided were serious, and intentional...and had serious reprocussions... It's the parents,obviously Cindy who caused much of the situation,even though Casey is the killer...
If they're just let Casey put that poor baby up for adoption,she'd still be alive...

So sad...

I know..I'm a meanie...


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## Cosy

I think it drew all this media attention due to the lying this girl did before they found the baby's remains. One lie after another..work, friends, nanny, etc. So many lies.
Then the grandfather is a retired homicide cop. The mother a nurse. Heartbreaking on so many levels. Didn't anyone but me wish they'd come up with something that proved she didn't do it through this entire trial? I wanted her to be innocent. Call
me Pollyanna.


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## michellerobison

Cosy said:


> I think it drew all this media attention due to the lying this girl did before they found the baby's remains. One lie after another..work, friends, nanny, etc. So many lies.
> Then the grandfather is a retired homicide cop. The mother a nurse. Heartbreaking on so many levels. Didn't anyone but me wish they'd come up with something that proved she didn't do it through this entire trial? I wanted her to be innocent. Call
> me Pollyanna.


There's a part of all of us that wanted her to be innocent,we don't want to think a young,middle class,average girl next door type mother can do this.... but the lies and her cold demeanor just screamed volumes...

The whole time,it was all about her,she was the victim too,poor pitiful Pearl...never about Caylee in her eyes...

She said everything was taken from her,yeah,her freedom from irresponsibility by being forced to be a parent.Poor little Caylee,I think she was becoming self aware and virbalizing more,it was just a matter of time before she told someone,mommy drugs me,puts me in the trunk or a closet...

What I wonder is where did Casey go everyday for two years while her parents thought she went to work? What did she do w/ Caylee all day?


By the time it got to trial,I wanted to hear the truth,but like the Haleigh Cummings case,also Florida,that death will always be a mystery..the truth will never come out,neither will the truth of Caylee's death.

Gee I hope those jurers are as intuitive as SMer's! Every once in a while you get a person calling in saying Casey was a good mother, makes my head spin...It's usually guys too....

Al's cousin made a comment last week,she's in her mid 50's,she said her uncle told her that when his kids were younger they used choroform to make their kids go to sleep at night and to knock them out on long car trips...Back when you used to be able to get it at the pharmacy,back in the 1950's.

I remember my grandpa telling us,back in the 40's and 50's,they used chloroform on a cotton ball,put it in a boot , to subdue farm cats and hogs so they could castrate them..quick easy and it only took a drop or two on a rag or cotton...they called it the Wellington Boot,old rubber boots farmers used... or "Welly Boot" and a Pen knife....
They also used it to kill stray tomcats...

It's not so far fetched when you think that we all know people who give Benadryl to their kids to make them sleep,for no medical reason ...just to get them to sleep so they can get through a long car trip or get them to bed...how sick is that?


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## CharmingDior

michellerobison said:


> I do wish they'd quit having sooooo mannnyyyy commercials!!!! Driving me nutts,those advertisers sure are taking advantage of the prime time viewers!!!!!
> 
> Maybe we can charge them w/ an assault on the senses,some even first dsgree eye slaughter? If I see one more Reverse Mortage commercial by another hasbeen actor,my head will explode!!!!!!


:HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley:
I hate the commercials also! They are filled with stuff that only makes the trial seem more dreary...depression commercials, life insurance, etc. And I would think that the people who are timing the commercials would use the common sense to determine where they should be placed! Not right before a witness testifies! We have learned to watch the case on both HLN and TRUtv. Usually when one goes to commercial the other is still on. 

Am I the only one who thinks that the hosts are really annoying...I cannot stand the sound of Vinnie Politan's voice!:smilie_tischkante:


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## michellerobison

I did the same think,I kept saying "shut up you guys,it's back on".. I'd flip back and forth between True TV and HLN..
Now they're doing an all day recounting of the trial and talking points until Sunday 9am closing arguments... I'm not watching that though,I'm goofing off, getting stuff done and watching other stuff.

I'm getting depressed seeing that same stupid depression med commercial for Abilify,the one w/ the cartoon lady and her floating depression cloud....I'm going to need Abilify!

Did you notice how many pink shirts Vinnie Politan has?


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## CharmingDior

michellerobison said:


> Only two women,older women and one lesbain ,the Black Widow who used arsenic to killer her husband and she also drowned her paralized some and Eileen Wuornos who murdered several men.
> 
> Being that Casey is pretty and young it might be tougher. People tend to give the death penalty to those they feel are less desirable...To me it shouldn't matter ,it should be applied equally.
> 
> As a former Floridian and hopefully future Floridian again,I dont' want to pay to keep someone like that incarcerated...
> 
> She imposed the death penalty on Caylee, a helpless toddler... w/o benefit of a any trial,so what good is there in paying all those thousands and hundreds of thousands to keep her in prison?
> 
> Mean I know....


I am currently in college and I have taken a plethora of classes dealing with law, ethics, and the like and through my studies and my professors studies, have the understanding that it is more expensive to put an inmate on death row. The reason being inmates typically do not sit on death row quietly to await execution but, they appeal, appeal, and appeal some more. A death penalty conviction costs more to process and usually goes further within the judicial system by means of making it to supreme courts.
Death Penalty:The High Cost of the Death Penalty

(This is an edited excerpt of a working paper written in layman's terms to protect the authenticity of the original document. This is my paper regarding the death penalty and the research conducted.)
_"The use of capital punishment is justified in four ways as penance for murder. 
1. To deter other people from committing the same crime. Due to the fear of being put to death, the penal system of many countries utilize the death penalty in hopes of preventing other people from engaging in similar crimes. The US Catholic Bishop stated that empirical studies have been conducted in this area, have not shown any conclusive evidence that the death penalty deters others, and therefore does not make the imposition of capital punishment worth the destruction of lives. 
2. Prevention; By taking away a privileged right such as life, it prevents the criminal from repeating the act. 
3. Retribution; This is exactly what the Bible verse Romans 9:6 speaks of. This ensures that the punishment is fitting to the crime.US Catholic Bishop teaches that certain crimes require retribution, however proper reprisal does not require the ending of a life…the sole purpose is to offer a remedial, a form of rehabilitation. 
4. Rehabilitation, to reform the criminal through punishment in hopes that they will reevaluate their crime and alter their ways. 

You can argue that life in prison without the possibility of parole can do the exact same thing. And that is what the rest of my unedited paper says! LOL...

There are many issues with the death penalty including mistaken identity, racism, biasness, and financial status that discriminate and ultimately plays a pivotal role in the sentencing of a murderer. The status of information can change with time, the same time that inmates on death row are very limited by. Information can appear after an inmate has been put to death that may exonerate them."

(Working paper: do not distribute or quote without permission!)_

This is just part of a bigger picture...I do not think those that believe in the death penalty are wrong because I can also argue for that point. There are many flaws in both POV's IMHO and thus the reason why this is one topic that continues to be debated.


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## CharmingDior

michellerobison said:


> I did the same think,I kept saying "shut up you guys,it's back on".. I'd flip back and forth between True TV and HLN..
> Now they're doing an all day recounting of the trial and talking points until Sunday 9am closing arguments... I'm not watching that though,I'm goofing off, getting stuff done and watching other stuff.
> 
> I'm getting depressed seeing that same stupid depression med commercial for Abilify,the one w/ the cartoon lady and her floating depression cloud....I'm going to need Abilify!
> 
> Did you notice how many pink shirts Vinnie Politan has?


OMGosh...we were just saying that the other day! It is like the pink shirt is his uniform!:HistericalSmiley: I believe that Mike (I think that is his name) wears a blue shirt and black blazer everyday as well! The only person I truly like and who makes sense to me is Casey Jordan. :thumbsup:


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## CharmingDior

Cosy said:


> I think it drew all this media attention due to the lying this girl did before they found the baby's remains. One lie after another..work, friends, nanny, etc. So many lies.
> Then the grandfather is a retired homicide cop. The mother a nurse. Heartbreaking on so many levels. Didn't anyone but me wish they'd come up with something that proved she didn't do it through this entire trial? I wanted her to be innocent. Call
> me Pollyanna.


I was torn as well. On one side of the coin you hope after 3 years that the mom is innocent and the other side that a baby killer isn't walking free for 3 years!


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## michellerobison

I agree with you,the death pentalty isn't distributed evenly,from the lack of adequate council to their race or gender....You're not going to see as many pretty ,young,white females and you will minorities,prostitutes or others that society feels are throwaway individuals.

Jails are full and they're only making them bigger.

She's 25 years old,if she lives to be 75,that's 50 years at approx $75,000 (not allowing for inflation)
per year in administrative costs and housing ,guards,liability and medical costs (not counting any assaults on her in prison and frivilous lawsuits she will bring,like my blanket is itchy or there's a fly in my soup) that's 3.75 million to keep her in prison for 50 years,that doesn't count the endless appeals for a new trial,to get out,reduced sentence appeals , early release filings and parole hearings,appeals for clemency and other miscelanious filings,even as a "lifer" that she will file.. 

Being indigent,she will get free attorneys to do all this,they'll bill the state for their time and filing fees since not all will do it pro bono,though some might but they'll do it for a tax write off and the tax payers will end up footing the bill anyway..

All in all together could run $100,000 per year until she dies so that takes it to about 5 million for her entire sentence.

Either way it's expensive,to house or to execute,bottom line criminals cost society a lot of money to house or to execute. Only advantage to executing,it opens up a bed for the next one...

I did an extract on this in CJ too and like many CJ students ended up w/o any real answers too....only a head ache...

Death penalty is only a slight deterrent at best. Only thing you can say about the death penalty is "0 recidivism rate"....

What disgusts me is "good time" time off the sentence up to 3 days off your sentence for every good day you behave, what crap is that? I would think you'd have to work hard at getting into trouble in prison...

Allowing them to serve multiple sentences concurently only encourages them to go for the max crime knowing it will all be paid for in one sentence...kinda like getting a discount coupon....

To bad they can't force them to work off their debt to society....
when my step son was in jail,if he worked he could get $20 lobbed off his daily $40 per dy they charged him,when he found out he couldn't pocket the money but it came off his bill at the end of sentence,he refused to work. Therefore it took him years to pay it off and not a dime did he get from his folks to do it,he worked off his fines,and stay in jail until he got it paid off. Yeah we're meanies... but I figured my tax dollars were already paying for him....

It's a complicated issue


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## Maltbabe

*She is guilty*

IMHO she is guilty. Her mom waited much 2 long before calling the police. George Anthony is a cop and he should have known better. As for Cindy taking the blame for the computer searches, I am totally DUMBFOUNDED if any of kids ever abused or killed any of my grandchildren I would NOT support them. 

She needs to be put away for physo she is is!:angry:


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## Matilda's mommy

Casey will stand before God one day


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## poochie2

I can't believe how my chores and laundry are all backed up because of me watching hours a day of this trial. That poor little Caylee deserves justice. I think in my opinion Casey overdosed her daughter with chloroform and she died accidently and she used duct tape to make it look like the so-called Zanni the nanny abducted her. No one knows the truth....just Casey. This is so sad and so tragic.
What disgusts me like crazy is the fact that after her daughter was ""missing"" she partied, shopped and got a bella vita tatooe.......that is just in-humane !


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## michellerobison

Maltbabe said:


> IMHO she is guilty. Her mom waited much 2 long before calling the police. George Anthony is a cop and he should have known better. As for Cindy taking the blame for the computer searches, I am totally DUMBFOUNDED if any of kids ever abused or killed any of my grandchildren I would NOT support them.
> 
> She needs to be put away for physo she is is!:angry:


I don't get parent protecting their kids when they commit crimes,I see it all the time. They harbour them if they run from the law,they lie to cover for them. What does that teach them?

Family is family but when it comes down to it,wrong is wrong...family or not...

If they don't charge Cindy w/ purgery they should atleast send her the bill for the time and costs or whitnesses and evidence to rebutt her testa-lie!

I have no doubt the defense knew she was going to testa-lie...


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## aprilb

The Defense claims that the Prosecution has not proved anything. I disagree. I think the forensic evidence speaks for itself. Can the Prosecution get a "murder in the 1st degree" conviction? Maybe not. We will never know the actual cause of death. Foul play was definitely involved but was it premeditated? We really don't know for sure. I think Casey will definitely be convicted but of what? I'm really not sure..


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## Matilda's mommy

poochie2 said:


> I can't believe how my chores and laundry are all backed up because of me watching hours a day of this trial. That poor little Caylee deserves justice. I think in my opinion Casey overdosed her daughter with chloroform and she died accidently and she used duct tape to make it look like the so-called Zanni the nanny abducted her. No one knows the truth....just Casey. This is so sad and so tragic.
> What disgusts me like crazy is the fact that after her daughter was ""missing"" she partied, shopped and got a bella vita tatooe.......that is just in-humane !


I agree with you totally, she knew what she was doing, I think she only thinks of herself and doesn't give a care about anyone else. What a cold woman



michellerobison said:


> I don't get parent protecting their kids when they commit crimes,I see it all the time. They harbour them if they run from the law,they lie to cover for them. What does that teach them?
> 
> Family is family but when it comes down to it,wrong is wrong...family or not...
> 
> If they don't charge Cindy w/ purgery they should atleast send her the bill for the time and costs or whitnesses and evidence to rebutt her testa-lie!
> 
> I have no doubt the defense knew she was going to testa-lie...


 
I would never lie for my child, Cindy knows in her heart Casey killed Caylee, how can she lie for her????


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## MalteseJane

Being a retired cop, why did the grand parents wait that long to report their grand daughter missing ? They should have known better. If my daughter and grand daughter lived with me I sure would not wait 30 days if that child is missing. Living with her parents, what did she need a nanny for ? and how come the parents never saw the nanny ? that we now know did not exist !! The grand parents are to blame too. They always put their heads in the sand and covered up for her. Now it is catching up with them. It comes a time when you are not able to do it anymore. I am with Michelle, Cindy should be hold accountable and charged with perjury.


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## Matilda's mommy

MalteseJane said:


> Being a retired cop, why did the grand parents wait that long to report their grand daughter missing ? They should have known better. If my daughter and grand daughter lived with me I sure would not wait 30 days if that child is missing. Living with her parents, what did she need a nanny for ? and how come the parents never saw the nanny ? that we now know did not exist !! The grand parents are to blame too. They always put their heads in the sand and covered up for her. Now it is catching up with them. It comes a time when you are not able to do it anymore. I am with Michelle, Cindy should be hold accountable and charged with perjury.


 

I agree


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## CharmingDior

michellerobison said:


> I agree with you,the death pentalty isn't distributed evenly,from the lack of adequate council to their race or gender....You're not going to see as many pretty ,young,white females and you will minorities,prostitutes or others that society feels are throwaway individuals.
> 
> Jails are full and they're only making them bigger.
> 
> She's 25 years old,if she lives to be 75,that's 50 years at approx $75,000 (not allowing for inflation)
> per year in administrative costs and housing ,guards,liability and medical costs (not counting any assaults on her in prison and frivilous lawsuits she will bring,like my blanket is itchy or there's a fly in my soup) that's 3.75 million to keep her in prison for 50 years,that doesn't count the endless appeals for a new trial,to get out,reduced sentence appeals , early release filings and parole hearings,appeals for clemency and other miscelanious filings,even as a "lifer" that she will file..
> 
> Being indigent,she will get free attorneys to do all this,they'll bill the state for their time and filing fees since not all will do it pro bono,though some might but they'll do it for a tax write off and the tax payers will end up footing the bill anyway..
> 
> All in all together could run $100,000 per year until she dies so that takes it to about 5 million for her entire sentence.
> 
> Either way it's expensive,to house or to execute,bottom line criminals cost society a lot of money to house or to execute. Only advantage to executing,it opens up a bed for the next one...
> 
> I did an extract on this in CJ too and like many CJ students ended up w/o any real answers too....only a head ache...
> 
> Death penalty is only a slight deterrent at best. Only thing you can say about the death penalty is "0 recidivism rate"....
> 
> What disgusts me is "good time" time off the sentence up to 3 days off your sentence for every good day you behave, what crap is that? I would think you'd have to work hard at getting into trouble in prison...
> 
> Allowing them to serve multiple sentences concurently only encourages them to go for the max crime knowing it will all be paid for in one sentence...kinda like getting a discount coupon....
> 
> To bad they can't force them to work off their debt to society....
> when my step son was in jail,if he worked he could get $20 lobbed off his daily $40 per dy they charged him,when he found out he couldn't pocket the money but it came off his bill at the end of sentence,he refused to work. Therefore it took him years to pay it off and not a dime did he get from his folks to do it,he worked off his fines,and stay in jail until he got it paid off. Yeah we're meanies... but I figured my tax dollars were already paying for him....
> 
> It's a complicated issue


I would have to agree that both capital punishment convictions as well as life sentences are expensive to the private citizens. The bottom line is that crime does not pay...law abiding citizens do. That is just an unfortunate fact. I cannot stand to see people "earn good-time". I suppose that is just one more ploy to free a bed as you have mentioned. It is completely undeserving in my opinion. I have read too many cases where the offender is released for being a "model inmate" (<---What an oxymoron:blink:!) only to offend again and usually a worse offense than their original crime.

I do not think you are being mean by making your step son repay his debt to society. He did the crime...why should you have to cover the expenses for him? In my family, if you get arrested be prepared to sit in jail...hopefully you receive some "time served". To me that is the best and hardest lesson you can learn: "Dealing with the repercussions of your bad decisions". If you are allowed to fall face first to the bottom and pick yourself up...that is when you have someone who emerges wiser from the ashes. I feel as though you did him a favor. Instead of giving a man a fish, you taught him to fish. You allowed him to gain the knowledge and wisdom to make better decisions in his life. (Mom of the Year Award goes to Michelle!:chili::aktion033

To me...there is too much compassion to inmates with the whole discount concurrent sentencing and everything. I just feel horrible for the families that have been victimized by these people.


----------



## CharmingDior

michellerobison said:


> I don't get parent protecting their kids when they commit crimes,I see it all the time. They harbour them if they run from the law,they lie to cover for them. What does that teach them?
> 
> Family is family but when it comes down to it,wrong is wrong...family or not...
> 
> If they don't charge Cindy w/ purgery they should atleast send her the bill for the time and costs or whitnesses and evidence to rebutt her testa-lie!
> 
> I have no doubt the defense knew she was going to testa-lie...


I agree with this completely. There should be no double standards at all whether they are family, friends, or strangers...crime is crime. And one of the things that irk me the most about the capital punishment is men get it the most. Women have committed the same, if not worse, crimes and still they receive life without parole.:angry: I do not get it!!

The only reason I can gather from this entire saga is Cindy just doesn't want her daughter put to death. I can understand that. But, unfortunately it is out of her hands. The lie that she told would take away from the state's theory of premeditation which could have thrown the whole case. That is why Cindy was impeached when the state brought the lawyer from Gentiva for their rebuttal. Which they did an excellent job at!:thumbsup:



aprilb said:


> The Defense claims that the Prosecution has not proved anything. I disagree. I think the forensic evidence speaks for itself. Can the Prosecution get a "murder in the 1st degree" conviction? Maybe not. We will never know the actual cause of death. Foul play was definitely involved but was it premeditated? We really don't know for sure. I think Casey will definitely be convicted but of what? I'm really not sure..


I disagree as well. All of the "major" points the defense earned through their direct questioning was basically rebutted by the state in a fantastical way! I am not sure she will get 1st degree...I am hoping for the conviction of murder over manslaughter though. If she is acquitted I would :faint:



MalteseJane said:


> Being a retired cop, why did the grand parents wait that long to report their grand daughter missing ? They should have known better. If my daughter and grand daughter lived with me I sure would not wait 30 days if that child is missing. Living with her parents, what did she need a nanny for ? and how come the parents never saw the nanny ? that we now know did not exist !! The grand parents are to blame too. They always put their heads in the sand and covered up for her. Now it is catching up with them. It comes a time when you are not able to do it anymore. I am with Michelle, Cindy should be hold accountable and charged with perjury.


Well, the whole deal is Casey is a great liar. She even had the police going in circles so I believe her parents were just easily fooled. Perhaps, as parents they should know her daughter, but that is a lot of parents in the world. Caylee had been going to the "nanny" since she was just a few months old while George and Cindy were off to work. Casey was also "working" at the time. And the days went by because Casey continued to tell her parents that she was in different parts of Florida when all along she was in Orlando. Also, the police would not have been able to do much since it is her daughter and they do not have guardianship of little Caylee. I must give the grandmother some sort of kudos because if it were not for her finally becoming fed up with it and contacting one of Casey's friends to uncover her location...who knows how long this would have continued (with Casey searching for her on her own). I am sure Casey would have continued dodging her parents for as long as she could, writing fraudulent checks, and partying with friends. However, Cindy she be held accountable for her blatant lies on the stand. And I also agree that the parents should not have been so eager to please Casey all her life. No wonder she has that whole "woe is me" demeanor. (those who have seen the jailhouse tapes will recall that she said something along the lines of "everyone is worried about Caylee...but, I am a victim too.")


----------



## Matilda's mommy

CharmingDior said:


> I agree with this completely. There should be no double standards at all whether they are family, friends, or strangers...crime is crime. And one of the things that irk me the most about the capital punishment is men get it the most. Women have committed the same, if not worse, crimes and still they receive life without parole.:angry: I do not get it!!
> 
> The only reason I can gather from this entire saga is Cindy just doesn't want her daughter put to death. I can understand that. But, unfortunately it is out of her hands. The lie that she told would take away from the state's theory of premeditation which could have thrown the whole case. That is why Cindy was impeached when the state brought the lawyer from Gentiva for their rebuttal. Which they did an excellent job at!:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree as well. All of the "major" points the defense earned through their direct questioning was basically rebutted by the state in a fantastical way! I am not sure she will get 1st degree...I am hoping for the conviction of murder over manslaughter though. If she is acquitted I would :faint:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the whole deal is Casey is a great liar. She even had the police going in circles so I believe her parents were just easily fooled. Perhaps, as parents they should know her daughter, but that is a lot of parents in the world. Caylee had been going to the "nanny" since she was just a few months old while George and Cindy were off to work. Casey was also "working" at the time. And the days went by because Casey continued to tell her parents that she was in different parts of Florida when all along she was in Orlando. Also, the police would not have been able to do much since it is her daughter and they do not have guardianship of little Caylee. I must give the grandmother some sort of kudos because if it were not for her finally becoming fed up with it and contacting one of Casey's friends to uncover her location...who knows how long this would have continued (with Casey searching for her on her own). I am sure Casey would have continued dodging her parents for as long as she could, writing fraudulent checks, and partying with friends. However, Cindy she be held accountable for her blatant lies on the stand. And I also agree that the parents should not have been so eager to please Casey all her life. No wonder she has that whole "woe is me" demeanor. (those who have seen the jailhouse tapes will recall that she said something along the lines of "everyone is worried about Caylee...but, I am a victim too.")


:goodpost: WOW IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE SHE CAN CALL HERSELF THE VICTIM, I GUESS THAT'S WHAT MADE IT EASIER TO GET RID OF CAYLEE


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## michellerobison

That's why they call it Criminal Justice,,,justice for the criminal...not the tax payers....
Hear about the guy who robbed a bank of just one dollar because he had no health insurance and figured he can go to jail to get health insurance?


----------



## CharmingDior

michellerobison said:


> That's why they call it Criminal Justice,,,justice for the criminal...not the tax payers....
> Hear about the guy who robbed a bank of just one dollar because he had no health insurance and figured he can go to jail to get health insurance?


No WAY!!! Just one dollar? And a bank!??! Wow...went from a little time to federal time! :HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley:


----------



## michellerobison

CharmingDior said:


> No WAY!!! Just one dollar? And a bank!??! Wow...went from a little time to federal time! :HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley:


 I heard it on our local news,not sure where it happened.
Think he thought the low amount would get him a light sentence and a misdemeanor probably instead of federal time....
My best friend's uncle used to commit petty thefts to get thrown in jail because he couldn't afford dialysis...


----------



## Cosy

MalteseJane said:


> Being a retired cop, why did the grand parents wait that long to report their grand daughter missing ? They should have known better. If my daughter and grand daughter lived with me I sure would not wait 30 days if that child is missing. Living with her parents, what did she need a nanny for ? and how come the parents never saw the nanny ? that we now know did not exist !! The grand parents are to blame too. They always put their heads in the sand and covered up for her. Now it is catching up with them. It comes a time when you are not able to do it anymore. I am with Michelle, Cindy should be hold accountable and charged with perjury.


Jane, they didn't wait that long. Casey and Caylee moved out and Casey gave great excuses for not coming around with the toddler to visit. (More lies but easily believable to her parents). It wasn't until Casey said she'd been missing 31 days that her mother called the police. Her mother had no idea she was missing all that time or that anything bad had happened to her. Thus the search following that revelation. Her parents believed their daughter until the odor in the car (Abandoned) and Casey admitting she was missing.


----------



## michellerobison

9 am tomorrow ,closing arguments will begin,I wonder if the gravity of the situation is sinking in for her yet. I'm sure she's still thinking she will get off.
One interviewer said that Cheney Mason is generally more animated and more passion in his voice that she's seen in this case....I get a feeling from his almost monotone voice speaks volumes.
I remember the David Westerfield case where he was accused of killing a little neighbour girl next door. Her parents were partying bisexual swingers,didn't look good for them during trial.... Westerfield's attorney did well on direct and cross during the trial. I remember Westerfirld's quivering chin during the entire trial and his attorney's very monotone closing..thinking if he doesn't believe it,how can the jury.
Turned out he was convicted,what no one knew and the media didn't either is that he had told law enforcement if they dropped 1st degree murder,he'd tell them what happened and where her body was. Law enforcement wouldn't do the deal. He said try to convict me w/o a body then....
After that info was released it only verified what the jury had only guessed at.

I bet there's some interesting things we'll find out after the Anthony verdict too.


----------



## MalteseJane

Cosy said:


> Jane, they didn't wait that long. Casey and Caylee moved out and Casey gave great excuses for not coming around with the toddler to visit. (More lies but easily believable to her parents). It wasn't until Casey said she'd been missing 31 days that her mother called the police. Her mother had no idea she was missing all that time or that anything bad had happened to her. Thus the search following that revelation. Her parents believed their daughter until the odor in the car (Abandoned) and Casey admitting she was missing.


Ok now I understand better. She must have had great excuses not to visit with the toddler. Still it's hard to believe that the parents didn't found that suspicious. You don't leave your kid with the nanny when visiting the grand parents. Personally I am not for the death penalty. It's not on us to terminate her life lesson. And I think life in prison for the rest of her life is a harsher punishment than death. Death is the easy way out.


----------



## Snowball Pie's Mommi

I've been watching the trial, too. I have never found a court trial as interesting as this one. I have been glued to the TV watching the trial when I don't have an appointment or have to take care of something else important. 

I don't see how Casey cannot be found guilty. Although she never took the stand to testify on her own behalf (understandably so) ... I think the prison tapes with her talking to her mother and father, and brother, revel so much about her personality. In my eyes, the prison tapes make me think that Lee, Casey's brother, knows more about what happened to Caylee than he has testified to on the stand. His tears while testifying did not appear to be genuine in my eyes. The same with George ... Casey's father. I just get this strong feeling that he also knows more than we will ever know. 

As for Casey ... I think she will break down in the very end. I think we saw signs of that after court was recessing on Friday. I think Casey has borderline personality disorder. I think it shows so much in the prison tapes ... for instance, how she reacts when feeling under pressure when her mother was trying to get information from Casey. And, the lies. And, how Casey is seen on the videos telling her parents how much she loves them ... and, then turns around in court and displays such hate toward her parents. Casey's personality will not admit her own guilts ... but, instead twist things around to make it sound as though what has happened ... is everyone elses fault.

I cannot believe the way Jose Baez has conducted himself while representing Casey. It is my opinion that he lacks experience and has acted unprofessionally in more than one way. I think there is a big chance he will be in trouble with the bar upon completion of this trial.

I love the way Judge Perry has handled this whole trial. I think he is very fair and has been so considerate of the jury that has been sequestered for so long now. Not much mention has been made of the fact that he has provided special dinners and events arranged for the jury members to enjoy in the evenings, etc. Most importantly, Judge Perry has been so on top of all the court issues/questions that have happened during this trial. I loved how he handled the 28 year old guy who was caught making finger gestures toward Ashton ... what a way for Matthew Bartlett to get his few moments of fame! Six days in jail with fines of over six hundred dollars. Good for Judge Perry on how he handled this whole thing. With the seriousness of this murder trial ... and, with the way Judge Perry handled the questioning of Mr. Bartlett ... I had a good laugh. Hopefully, the guy will have learned a big lesson from thinking he could get away with disobeying the court rules.









Well, in half an hour court begins with the closing arguments. I don't see how Casey could go free at all. I think there will be justice in the end for the innocent child who was murdered ... Caylee Anthony.

I could go on and on about this trial ... but, it's time to listen as the court is already in session!


----------



## michellerobison

Borderlines do have intense love hate towards the people in their lives. Love them when it suits them,hates them when they don't play the game their way.
I think she has a multitude of personality disorders. BPD (borderline),OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder),elements sure of Machiavelianism(tendency to deceive and manipulate other people for their personal gain).

I did an abstract on this in college and had to do a couple on similar subjects ,for ongoing education requirements at work.


She sure fits BPD though ..

Have a pattern of difficult relationships caused by alternating between extremes of intense admiration and hatred of others

Act impulsively in ways that are self-damaging, such as extravagant spending, frequent and unprotected sex with many partners, substance abuse. 

Have frequent emotional overreactions or intense mood swings, including feeling depressed, irritable, or anxious.  

Have temporary episodes of feeling suspicious of others without reason (paranoia) or losing a sense of reality

Have long-term feelings of emptiness. Easily bored, they may constantly seek something to do. Individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder frequently express inappropriate, intense anger or have difficulty controlling their anger. They may display extreme sarcasm, enduring bitterness, or verbal outbursts. The anger is often elicited when a caregiver or lover is seen as neglectful, withholding, uncaring, or abandoning. 

Borderlines are “love addicts”. They are terrified of being alone. They may rush into relationships and try to establish intimacy as quickly as possible, having sex on the first date, or sharing intimate details of their lives at a very early stage. They idealize the new partner at first, but this idealization quickly turns to devaluation and disillusionment when the person fails to live up to their ideals. 



I'm surprised he didn't include the computer searches for chloroform 3 months earlier,chloroform,neck breaking,internal injuries,ruptured spleen...makes you wonder just what kind of death she planned for Caylee initially.....that really goes to premeditation,even though premeditation can be formed in minutes.

1 pieces of duct tape could be impulse but the second and third to show intent to silence and premeditation...

Sad,really sad...


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## KAG

Bravo Jeff Ashton!
xoxoxoxo


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## michellerobison

THey're trying to get a photograph of her as a teenager with imaginary people in her life. They're really not imaginary people,like children make imaginary friends in play. They're fake people she invented as tools to use to decieve... They really should call them that,not imaginary. Imaginary implies she believes them to be real when in fact they were created and concockted as tools to decieve...

Going to be interesting.. Even Judge Perry said that photograph was meant to mislead...
I bet Baez will have some "splain' to do " at the bar after this trial.....


----------



## Cosy

Must have been a short closing argument for the state. I missed the entire thing! LOL
I'm sure the defense won't be so short. LOL Darn it.


----------



## michellerobison

Cosy said:


> Must have been a short closing argument for the state. I missed the entire thing! LOL
> I'm sure the defense won't be so short. LOL Darn it.


It was a little over an hour I think.I think they kept it shorter as not to belabour the points and loose the jury.

Baez is boring me to tears,very monotone voice for the most part,he spent the first 20 minutes giving a mini lecture on burden of proof which Mason will also do ...zzzzzzzz
The state gets another short surrebuttal for closing,which I'm sure he will hammer home some things and keep it short again so he won't loose the jury...


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## CharmingDior

:aktion033:
You two(MichelleRobison and Snowball Pie's Mommi) made some excellent points in your post. Judge Belvin Perry has been a extremely fair and unbiased judge, who has taken into account the time and effort of the jury as well as the financial taxation of citizens. I guess where our opinions begin to part is where we get on tears being genuine or a facade. I do believe that George and Lee were crying real tears. You can hear the labored breathing and mucous in the nose. (I do believe some people have the ability to fake this, however, George and Lee have been so stoic throughout the trial and they all of a sudden just break. To me that is conducive of genuine emotion and rightfully so given the situation.) Is it possible that there is more that they didn't say...yes. I definitely can believe that. But, these people have to survive outside of this trial. They have jobs, relationships, friendships, reputations, and other things they must return to. Casey Anthony will always be a tarnished name whether convicted or acquitted. But, whether or not they know more to me has very little to do with the love they have for Caylee and her memories. Also, I have family secrets that have literally died with the person. There are things going on in my family I do not even know until into adulthood. And you can bet your bottom dollar I would not get on national tv or testify in open court about everything I know if it is not pertinent in the trial. If the videos prove anything to me it proves that this family was quite normal in the beginning and in the scrutiny of public opinion this began to change. They were all concerned for Caylee and Casey's welfare, while unbeknownst to them Casey is lying her butt off. But, if you just seen the videos without knowing Casey was a liar...you see a family beginning to tear at the seams, however, working to repair it. (To get Caylee back and Casey out of jail) To me, Casey is the catalyst to the utter turmoil and destruction of such a close family. Whatever family secrets there are, I do doubt it has anything to do with Casey being sexually abused. There is just no way I could say I would live with my abuser into adulthood and then bring my daughter into the same house. Just couldn't do it. Also, while she was talking to her father she says he has been a great father and grandfather. :blink: Much like you, I can continue on and on...

Personally I do not believe she has a mental disorder. Maybe she is the textbook definition of BPD but, I was once told by a Doctor of Psychology that if everyone looked in the book they would all find some new condition and diagnosis. He didn't mean he does not believe in it but, you have to do more than just check out the book. With that being said, I believe that Casey is just a Master Manipulator. I know several people like her that will manipulate a situation until it no longer works, that will lie for no apparent reason, and who will jump into relationship after relationship. They have never been sexually abused, or abused in any way for that matter, they are young and attractive, they have been spoiled all their lives, and still yet they act like her. Would they kill their child or not report an accident...No. But, I know people like this and they are just proud to be smart enough to play the mind games with innocent people. I think it is possible for Casey to have this same issue...besides that, why would the defense not use this diagnosis or the 3 experts who evaluated her for the competency hearing not come up with some sort of diagnosis. Of course, those records are sealed but, the trial continued.

I hope Baez will have some explaining to do at bar. I think he was one of the worst defense attorneys I have seen. I do not know why he didn't let Mason take on as the lead...but then again he wants this to help launch his career. Have you guys checked out his law firm website and his success stories?


----------



## harrysmom

I agree that Baez stinks as a lawyer and that he is an *awful* public speaker. Someone said that Casey can declare inadequate representation and that would be grounds for a mistrial. Anyone else ever hear of this? Any chance that she can do this so late in the case? What a waste of everyone's time that would be!!!


----------



## Hunter's Mom

Ineffective assistance of counsel is not grounds for a mistrial but is grounds for appeal.


----------



## harrysmom

Hunter's Mom said:


> Ineffective assistance of counsel is not grounds for a mistrial but is grounds for appeal.


Thanks, Erin!


----------



## Snowball Pie's Mommi

Hunter's Mom said:


> Ineffective assistance of counsel is not grounds for a mistrial but is grounds for appeal.


Erin, I was hoping you would join in with some imput about this. Thank you for explaining that. 

I would be shocked at this point if there would be proven grounds for mistrial ... but, then, one never knows what could happen, for sure, in the end.

On another note, (and, before I forget ... LOL) as for borderline personality disorder ... I understand that even though it is a very serious mental disorder ... it does not mean that Casey, for instance, would be deemed incompetent, and thus cause for a mistrial. From what I understand, people with BPD are usually aware of what they are doing when they lie and manipulate.


----------



## Lilly's Mommy

I just hope that she gets convicted of something. Not even taking into consideration her possible mental illness it takes a truly twisted person to harm a child. I work with people that have mental illness on a regular basis & despite many of them experiencing abuse as a child that doesn't automatically mean they harm their children or even have the desire to. Most of them keep their children away from their abusers and try their best to live a different life. This chick is just straight evil.


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## michellerobison

She can file an appeal based on ineffective assistance of counsel ,but there are other death penalty qualified attorneys. Baez was lead councel but had assistance from other qualified council. IAC is really hard to prove,almost as hard as any appeal can be.

Baez wants to make his "bones" on this case,to me he's trying to make his "bones" on Caylee's bones and that to me it's morally reprehensible!


----------



## Cosy

I don't find Baez boring or monotone. I do think he's explained some things away.
This is why this case is being called "the case of the century".


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## mss

In California, ineffective assistance of counsel is a ground for relief by writ of habeas corpus. I don't know about appeals--fortunately that's outside my experience. 

I haven't followed this case closely at all, but it seems just awful.  Although there have been some probably more awful things around here. 

Has the prosecution emphasized the defense's failure to put on evidence supporting the claims made in the defense's opening statement? I heard a bit about that earlier--molestation, drowning?


----------



## michellerobison

Baez just drew negative attention to himself by pointing out Ashton's giggling during their closing arguments. Both sides have indulged in indecorour behaviours to say the least,but Baez should have said something to the judge,not made a derrogatory comment and violated the same rule as he accused Ashton of. He slipped in a dig and the judge called Baez on it and later admonished Ashton...

Ashton is conseding w/ o seeign th evideo, the defense is wastign time seeing it again!


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## CharmingDior

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> Erin, I was hoping you would join in with some imput about this. Thank you for explaining that.
> 
> I would be shocked at this point if there would be proven grounds for mistrial ... but, then, one never knows what could happen, for sure, in the end.
> 
> On another note, (and, before I forget ... LOL) as for borderline personality disorder ... I understand that even though it is a very serious mental disorder ... it does not mean that Casey, for instance, would be deemed incompetent, and thus cause for a mistrial. From what I understand, people with BPD are usually aware of what they are doing when they lie and manipulate.


I agree that it would not be grounds for a mistrial, however, I would think the defense would use this BPD in their case as for why she detached herself from the emotion and trauma of loosing her daughter. Or even contribute this is her way of compensating for the sexual abuse...her reason for being involved with so many guys...her reason for continuing to raise her daughter in the same home as her abuser, 'tis all.:blush:


----------



## CharmingDior

Lilly's Mommy said:


> I just hope that she gets convicted of something. Not even taking into consideration her possible mental illness it takes a truly twisted person to harm a child. *I work with people that have mental illness on a regular basis & despite many of them experiencing abuse as a child that doesn't automatically mean they harm their children or even have the desire to. Most of them keep their children away from their abusers and try their best to live a different life.* This chick is just straight evil.


:smilie_daumenpos::aktion033::goodpost::woohoo2:

Well said!


Cosy said:


> I don't find Baez boring or monotone. I do think he's explained some things away.
> This is why this case is being called "the case of the century".


I don't find him to be monotone either...I find his defense to be outlandish at times and although they do not have the burden of proof...he explains away too many things. I would have to agree with George on this one and say, "To me One and One makes Two..." and it is almost like they are hoping the jury leaves common sense at the door. 
But, I will definitely be waiting on the verdict.:Waiting:


----------



## CharmingDior

michellerobison said:


> Baez just drew negative attention to himself by pointing out Ashton's giggling during their closing arguments. Both sides have indulged in indecorour behaviours to say the least,but Baez should have said something to the judge,not made a derrogatory comment and violated the same rule as he accused Ashton of. He slipped in a dig and the judge called Baez on it and later admonished Ashton...
> 
> Ashton is conseding w/ o seeign th evideo, the defense is wastign time seeing it again!


I am very glad that Judge Perry is so strict in his courtroom because this trial could have easily been made to look like a circus if both the prosecution and defense behave in such a manner even with a strict judge, can you imagine a lenient one? I believe when he said that he will accept the apologies right now means later he will report this issue to the bar association and/or issue sanctions.


*Is it only me or does anyone else feel like most of Casey's tears have been for herself?*


----------



## Cosy

Because George says he didn't molest Casey doesn't make it so. Really, no molester is going to say they did. No point in beating that dead horse. KWIM?


----------



## michellerobison

CharmingDior said:


> I am very glad that Judge Perry is so strict in his courtroom because this trial could have easily been made to look like a circus if both the prosecution and defense behave in such a manner even with a strict judge, can you imagine a lenient one? I believe when he said that he will accept the apologies right now means later he will report this issue to the bar association and/or issue sanctions.
> 
> 
> *Is it only me or does anyone else feel like most of Casey's tears have been for herself?*


Oh yeah ,she started welling up again during the admonishments to the defense and prosecutiion...I thought they're not talking about you,why are you crying?

She seems to cry when it's about her.

Baez's voice does at times seem monotone until he really gets into it. It might be the timbre of his voice that seems a bit monotone maybe.

I don't think she was sexually abused,I think she has a definate character disorder.


----------



## CharmingDior

Cosy said:


> Because George says he didn't molest Casey doesn't make it so. Really, no molester is going to say they did. No point in beating that dead horse. KWIM?


Definitely a dead horse but there is no proof in either direction and it is almost like the defense dropped it after the opening statement. Also, because Casey says it really doesn't make it true either....truth is we will probably never know. What difference does it make...none to me because it has nothing to do with Caylee ending up dead.


----------



## CharmingDior

michellerobison said:


> Oh yeah ,she started welling up again during the admonishments to the defense and prosecutiion...I thought they're not talking about you,why are you crying?
> 
> She seems to cry when it's about her.
> 
> Baez's voice does at times seem monotone until he really gets into it. It might be the timbre of his voice that seems a bit monotone maybe.
> 
> I don't think she was sexually abused,I think she has a definate character disorder.


Maybe I just heard worse, LOL...nobody has ANYTHING on my old biology professor, LOL! But I do love Cheney Mason's voice...he just sounds like an old Texas Cowboy sitting down ready to tell a story...haha!


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## Matilda's mommy

Cosy said:


> Because George says he didn't molest Casey doesn't make it so. Really, no molester is going to say they did. No point in beating that dead horse. KWIM?


 
so true, I do think George knows more then he is saying


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## michellerobison

CharmingDior said:


> Maybe I just heard worse, LOL...nobody has ANYTHING on my old biology professor, LOL! But I do love Cheney Mason's voice...he just sounds like an old Texas Cowboy sitting down ready to tell a story...haha!


 
Or my old high school french teacher,Mr. Munn,they used to call him Monotone Munn.

I agree Cheney Mason sounds like a southern gent..he sounds like my husband's uncle Leonard...he was a ornery ole cuss but in a fun way... a real prankster and a straight shooter, he brooked no nonsense...


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## MalteseJane

I am just glad I don't sit in that jury box. I fell asleep during this last part. I hate when things drag on. I like short and to the point.


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## michellerobison

MalteseJane said:


> I am just glad I don't sit in that jury box. I fell asleep during this last part. I hate when things drag on. I like short and to the point.


 
OMG I did too,just too long!

One thing that stuck out during defence is when he was talking about fingerprints , and the heart sticker...he said there were beer bottles near that sticker board...and he asked "why didn't the prosecution have them dusted for finger prints to find the killers?" Killers? I thought that odd since he is contending it was an accident?

Also wonder if the prosecution will touch on the part about the heart shaped stickers used in burial of pets... not the ones in the back yard.

Casey and her neighbourhood friends used to bury their pet hampsters in the place where Caylee was found,they put heart stickers on the bags since they too small to place objects with them ,they placed heart stickers on them...


Also,in defense closing the the part about "where they looking for, who cut the cheeze?" was a bit snarky,when he talked about the empty Velveeta box being dusted for finger prints...at least that moment kept me interested..for a while.

This trial has had some funny comments,"pigs in a blanket,who cut the cheeze?" Definately interesting...

It's a good plan to wait until tomorrow for rebuttal closing,the jury will be fresh,the effects of Ashton snickering will be less fresh and Linda Burdick will give that closing...plus a woman closing won't feel like they're ganging up on a poor defenseless woman...


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## Maidto2Maltese

Well I have to admit... I was leaning heavily to Casey being guilty, but felt the defense atty did a good job of raising reasonable doubt in several areas.
I still have a hard time with Casey's behavior for those 30 days or so... just doesn't sit well with me AT ALL but could I, at this point, convict her of murder based solely on that... no.

There are facts 'out-there' that most of us don't know and likely never will... however as far as the judicial system goes and going by what the jury has to work with ( evidence)... I'm anxious to see how this all plays out.


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## Cosy

I found the pigs in a blanket far more offensive and uncalled for in that courtroom. 
Ashton is cocky as is his partner Burkette (or whatever her name is). He laughed out loud during defense's summation. Shameful.

I'm sure prosecution will use up the rest of their four hours tomorrow. zzzzzz lol

One thing is certain...we hear a lot more opinions and info than the jury does - so their take and spin on all this could be extremely different than any of ours.


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## michellerobison

I have to say Baez asking the court not to penalize Ashton,though I think he deserved it...was the classiest thing I saw Baez do since it all started..

They've had three years of their lives wrapped up in all this,almost like being sentenced themselves. I'm sure they all feel like they've "served time".

Neither of them have shown much courtroom decorum..a sad statement on our society too...


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## michellerobison

I felt sorry for the poor pigs they killed for this experiment that they didn't do closer to the actual conditions. They did it in Nebraska in September,wrapped in a blanket but not in plastic bags.

What a waste of precious life,even a pig's life is precious...


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## aprilb

After watching the closing arguments of the defense, they did raise some doubts, IMO. I do not believe they were reasonable doubts. Baez threw out "fantasy forensics" and that the physical evidence was "manipulated." I think that's taking things a bit too far. I did not know there were 3 pieces of duct tape. That does not sound like an "accident" to me. Caylee was in a garbage bag and dumped like garbage. It was murder. I didn't understand what was going on with George and the gas cans, though. I am glad the rebuttal will be tomorrow. Ashton seems confident to me.


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## CharmingDior

Cosy said:


> I found the pigs in a blanket far more offensive and uncalled for in that courtroom.
> Ashton is cocky as is his partner Burkette (or whatever her name is). He laughed out loud during defense's summation. Shameful.
> 
> I'm sure prosecution will use up the rest of their four hours tomorrow. zzzzzz lol
> 
> One thing is certain...we hear a lot more opinions and info than the jury does - so their take and spin on all this could be extremely different than any of ours.


I love to laugh and have a good like the next person but, I would have to say that I feel both comments were just uncalled for. I don't really take one over the other...maybe I am just too serious but, I thought that this wasn't a matter to smile over at all...it is a murder trial and an innocent little girl is no longer with us. I guess with this dragging on for so many days...the trial itself can be depressing (let alone being sequestered) so I can understand side humor but, IDK...just my opinion I guess, LOL.

I just don't find Linda D Burdick or Cheney Mason to be as cocky as Jeff Ashton and Jose' Baez. Ashton's behavior in the court surprised me today!


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## CharmingDior

michellerobison said:


> I have to say Baez asking the court not to penalize Ashton,though I think he deserved it...was the classiest thing I saw Baez do since it all started..
> 
> They've had three years of their lives wrapped up in all this,almost like being sentenced themselves. I'm sure they all feel like they've "served time".
> 
> Neither of them have shown much courtroom decorum..a sad statement on our society too...


I actually thought the same...I about to post but got sidetracked combing out Gianni...might I add his coat is coming along just fine:thumbsup:...can't wait for it to grow all out. :back2topic: I suppose you can say they have a lot of their own personal time and effort wrapped up into this...don't know whether they missed out on family time, birthdays, etc....but, gosh that's the life of a lawyer esp in a high profile case. (I do hate how it seems like the more the media and society follows it the more time, money, and effort put into it...and don't get me started on celebrities and the slap on the wrist they recieve:angry:!)


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## CharmingDior

michellerobison said:


> Or my old high school french teacher,Mr. Munn,they used to call him Monotone Munn.
> 
> I agree Cheney Mason sounds like a southern gent..he sounds like my husband's uncle Leonard...he was a ornery ole cuss but in a fun way... a real prankster and a straight shooter, he brooked no nonsense...


:goodpost:


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## kathym

I feel like this...This baby had 3 pieces of tape over her mouth and her nose she was wrapped in a banket coming from the Anthony house she was wrapped in a garbage bag then thrown out like garbage......Its murder no matter what- - where- when- how....ITS MURDER ...Its very very sad..


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## Cosy

Her remains weren't wrapped in anything, nor was there duct tape on the mouth. There was only bones and skull. THey are speculating all that.


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## michellerobison

I still don't believe she was molested,why would she stay,why would she leave her child alone w/ her molester?
As a surviver of molestation and incest,by an uncle an dan older step brother...
We,my younger brother and I were removed and put into foster care,not because we were molested,but because my mother abandoned us,left us alone in the house and the school and neighbours called.
In foster care I was allowed visits by my parents,divorced,would come to the foster home and sometimes I would be dropped off for visits.
I loved my parents and missed them but I didn't want to go back to live w/ them.
My step brother lived w/ my dad occasionally,so I wouldn't be allowed to visit when he was htere,I asked not to but never told the social workers why,fearing I'd get into trouble.

My best friend in school,she was sexually abused by her step brother,she never let her children alone w/ him. He'd live w/ his parents at times,but she wouldn't let him babysit or be alone.

I wouldn't let my child be alone w/ them ,had either of them lived long enough,as my father died of a heart attack and my mother commited suicide 6 months before that.

I grew up w/ abuse or all kinds, alcohol and dyfunction and I never thought to leave my step son w/ any of my remaining family. I didn't even visit them,I wanted to just stay away.


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## aprilb

kathym said:


> I feel like this...This baby had 3 pieces of tape over her mouth and her nose she was wrapped in a banket coming from the Anthony house she was wrapped in a garbage bag then thrown out like garbage......Its murder no matter what- - where- when- how....ITS MURDER ...Its very very sad..


Amen!!


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## michellerobison

The remains were probably pulled out to be eaten by animals,much like cats ,dogs,***** and coyotes will do the same to trashbag left on the curb over night for the trashman to pick up,if you don't put it in a rigid container.Even then,they're can still get in to the trash but it's tougher.

They did find a few small bones in one of the garbage bags,the rest had been scattered by animals and chewed on.... The bags,especially the linen laundry bag was one of a two bag set was traced back to the Anthony home...

I wonder how they can guess if she didn't have her neck broken,the head was disarticulated from the spine and not all the vertebrae or hynoid bone was found. Casey searched neck breaking...


When I broke my neck in a car wreck,I was hit w/ such force,I was thrown through the windscreen and rolled for 75 feet on black top,I broke my thumb and a C-2,that was all that was broken. 

Initial x-rays didn't find the broken C-2,only the thumb at the first knuckle. No skull fracture,but the skin on the top of my head ,from front to back was torn off and took over 300 stitches to sew it back in place...

It took a month for them to find the break in my C-2,since it wasn't displaced ( out of place),they only did a frontal view ,head,neck ,chest series of x-rays and they showed as normal,so they didn't do any more tests.

A month later,I had such pain still in my neck and no soft tissue injury to indicate whiplash, but I had deep bone pain and nerve pain,so they did a slice down CT and found it was broken...


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## Maltbabe

*Imo*

She put the tape over Caylee's mouth after so she would not scream when she woke up she did this after the administered the clorophorm and went partying. When she came back, the child was dead. Not knowing what to do, she backed up the car into the garage the following day and borrowed the shovel to bury her NOT in her backyard but in the woods. That summer we had lots of rain and the area was swampy. she got scared she might get caught and just dropped off her baby as if she was garbage and went out partying as if nothing happened.

She is guilty! she is scared and yet I believe somehow she will not get murder in the first degree. :w00t::w00t: No matter how it happened, she is guilty and she deserves to either die or spend her life in jail with NO possibility of parole. If her boyfriend said is my space "win her over with clorophorm" perhaps she was killed at her boyfriend's place???? many questions no answers


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## poochie2

kathym said:


> I feel like this...This baby had 3 pieces of tape over her mouth and her nose she was wrapped in a banket coming from the Anthony house she was wrapped in a garbage bag then thrown out like garbage......Its murder no matter what- - where- when- how....ITS MURDER ...Its very very sad..


My thoughts exactly !
:thumbsup:


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## CharmingDior

Cosy said:


> Her remains weren't wrapped in anything, nor was there duct tape on the mouth. There was only bones and skull. THey are speculating all that.


Some of her remains were wrapped in garbage bags because that was part of Roy Kronk's testimony. And duct tape was around the skull...just not the three pieces. One piece was found away from her remains.


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## Cosy

Kronk lifted the bag four feet off the ground. I imagine things were very jostled by that. He also lifted the skull with his stick. I don't know how anyone can be sure the duct tape was on her mouth when so much decomposition and tampering with the remains took place.


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## michellerobison

Like my one law professor said,"if people commited murder in front of a busload of nuns...there'd be no reasonable doubt".People don't commit crimes in view of whitnesses, they generally do it serepititiously, in secret,in the shadows,or alone so no one can see them or rat them out...so Baez stating no one saw her do it is ludecris...

If someone commits a crime in front of a whitness it will usually be in front of someone of questionable character to begin with...

Rational thinking would be,just give the baby up for adoption,she was over 18. She lied about working,she wasn't working,so she had no visible means of support (where'd she get money to party and go out?) don't forget the stealing from her grandmother,friends and Cindy's credit card...

If she gave the baby up for adoption,her parents would disown her,so no place to live. She tried to have a friend adopt and Cindy got wind of it and put a stop to it.

If she would have copped to the drowning,her parents would have never forgave her carelessness in letting Caylee drown but eventually she would have been forgiven.
If Caylee drowned accidentally she might have gotten some probation and parenting classes and counceling.

Like the inmate near her cell ,at the same time,who's 15 month old son drowned accidentally,found by the grandfather and she lived 10 miles from the Anthony home? If she didnt' talk to Casey directly about that story,the jailhouse gossips would have.No way she got such a similar accident happen to her..Funny how she didn't tell that one,almost two years ago but waitied until right before trial. Why spend three years in jail for an accident?
That inmate served no time for the accidental drowning of her son,she was in jail for a few days for driving on a suspended license...



Casey wanted a free pass,no charges,no punishment,no counceling... and the money and the fame of a fictional kidnapping and murder,book deals, paid appearances movies,and even a foundation to raise money where she would have access to that money...plus sympathy,lots of sympathy and generosity of those who felt sorry for her. Lots of potential sheep to fleece...enough so she could live the beautiful life...

Copping to an accidental drowning wouldn't have gotten her that...

Copping to an accidental overdose of chloroform would still be a manslaughter or felony murder (causing the death of another,even by accident) while commiting a felony assault,chloroforming the child. that is still considered an aggrevating factor which could still land her a death penalty.

The boyfriend stated he liked Caylee and enjoyed playing with her when she stayed over but that's a whole lot different than spending 24/7 with a child,raising the child and being responsible for a girlfriend's child.

He also didn't seen to interested in a serious relationship and instant family.

I believe the rich boyfriend story was another way to delay,distance making it easier.If Cindy insisted,she could claim they're moving to another country and that could delay for years,unless her parents decided to come overseas for a visit.

Ultimately, and I said it in earlier posts,Caylee was getting old enough to become more self aware and to virbalize,it was only a matter of time before Caylee would say something incongruent w/ what Casey was saying... You know how kids are ,they can't keep a secret and they blurt things out or will bust you in a lie...

One of my friends had an affair and her 4 year old son totally busted her in front of her in-laws....he even called the guy Uncle ....


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## michellerobison

Maltbabe said:


> She put the tape over Caylee's mouth after so she would not scream when she woke up she did this after the administered the clorophorm and went partying. When she came back, the child was dead. Not knowing what to do, she backed up the car into the garage the following day and borrowed the shovel to bury her NOT in her backyard but in the woods. That summer we had lots of rain and the area was swampy. she got scared she might get caught and just dropped off her baby as if she was garbage and went out partying as if nothing happened.
> 
> She is guilty! she is scared and yet I believe somehow she will not get murder in the first degree. :w00t::w00t: No matter how it happened, she is guilty and she deserves to either die or spend her life in jail with NO possibility of parole. If her boyfriend said is my space "win her over with clorophorm" perhaps she was killed at her boyfriend's place???? many questions no answers


 
Yeah she and boyfriend rented murder mystery movies and she and the boyfriend had a John Lennon/Yoko Ono style bed in! They just stayed in bed all night and day,he even blew off work, and they cuddled and watched movies...can't do that easily with a kid with you.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

CharmingDior said:


> Oh yea, as a Floridian I do believe she will escape this trial with her life. We don't typically put women to death. I am against the death penalty, however, some cases make you question your better judgement.


I, too, am against the death penalty. Mainly because there have been too many sentenced to death, who later were found to be innocent, while someone else was discovered to have committed the crime. I would have a difficult time having been one of the jurors who chose the death penalty for someone who was totally innocent. In my eyes ... even just one innocent person put to death for a crime they did not commit ... is one too many.

In regard to Casey Anthony ... I am so sure she was responsible for her daughter's death. And, of course, she should be punished. Her worst nightmare could be what other prisoners might do to her if Casey is found guilty of murdering her daughter. She'd have to live the rest of her life in total confinement in a prison cell.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

kathym said:


> There is a God above ...What she did to that beautiful child and to her family even if they are dysfunctional is a poor excuse..She will pay one way or another...Death is to easy ..Sitting in jail for her will be worse...


Amen.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

CharmingDior;1929763
ADDED:
Unfortunately said:


> You are so right. There are many dysfunctional families. And, secretive about it. We know a family member who has been diagnosed with BPD ... that is why I am so interested in this trial. BPD can raise havoc on other family members if one enables such behavior. We have seen this person lie, manipulate, and twist everything around to make it sound as though everyone else is at fault. This person either loves you or hates you ... no in-between. They will try their best to turn other family members against one another. They can't hold onto friendships or work relationships.
> 
> It's so important, as you are doing with your children, to break the cycles of abuse as much as humanly possible. You can be so proud of that.
> 
> Thank you for sharing your personal experience with us, Brooke.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

lynda said:


> To add further, I think the judge in this case is fantastic, the prosecutor excellent and the defense attorney, well he leaves a lot to be desired.


Agreed.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

michellerobison said:


> I do wish they'd quit having sooooo mannnyyyy commercials!!!! Driving me nutts,those advertisers sure are taking advantage of the prime time viewers!!!!!
> 
> Maybe we can charge them w/ an assault on the senses,some even first dsgree eye slaughter? If I see one more Reverse Mortage commercial by another hasbeen actor,my head will explode!!!!!!


OMG!!! The same here!!! And, it drives me nuts when something important is happening in the trial and they go to commercials! 

In addition, I swear they make those darn commercials so much louder ... I am constantly turning down the volume when they come on! I think Tru-TV is the worst for the noise making commercials!

Michelle, you are so funny with what you think we should do. Yeah! ... Let's charge them with an assault on the senses and first degree eye slaughter! :chili::chili:


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

spookiesmom said:


> But what I really, really DONT understand is, and this will sound wrong, is, why all the media attention on this case? I sound heartless, but people young and old are killed every day. Mom drove the mini van in a lake, drown the kids. Mom held baby under water. Dad beat the kid. I don't see national exposure on those? Distraut ex spouse kills........ Can somebody explain this? Because it's Florida, home of pregnant dimples?


To tell you the truth ... I didn't pay much attention to the Anthony case until the trial began. What has kept my interest, is after watching and listening to all the the video conversations between Casey and her parents, and brother during prison visits, how everything turned out to be lies. Casey told her mother and father in the videos from prison ... how much she loved them. And, then turns around and accuses them (in court) of abusing her. Even her brother, who spent so much time talking to Casey in prison ... helping Casey plan what she should do in regard to the then upcoming trial. She ended up accusing her brother, too, of molesting her. 

I find this trial interesting because of all the twists and turns. I love learning how the judicial works. I love how Judge Perry handles all the bumps in the road with this case. He is really on the ball. My husband is an attorney ... so, whatever I don't understand he can explain to me. 

I think many of us feel as though we are trying to help put the pieces together with the mystery of what REALLY happened. Most of us assume it was Casey who is responsible for her daughter's death ... but, what REALLY happened. How did she REALLY kill her own daughter? Was it an accident that went awry ... or, plain cold blooded murder?

This does not mean that I am not interested in the other news of the world or news closer to home. I do think more news should be reported on all the disasters going on in this world. We seem to forget all the people who are suffering from tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, and fires. This is not normal for all these disasters to be happening one after another. And, what about Japan? My Internist is from Japan. Her family has moved over here because the radiation is spreading over there ...and, she said this will eventually affect all of us here and around the world, So, yes, other news is important, too. 

And, no ... you do not sound heartless to me. You sound like you care.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

Cosy said:


> I think it drew all this media attention due to the lying this girl did before they found the baby's remains. One lie after another..work, friends, nanny, etc. So many lies.
> Then the grandfather is a retired homicide cop. The mother a nurse. Heartbreaking on so many levels. Didn't anyone but me wish they'd come up with something that proved she didn't do it through this entire trial? I wanted her to be innocent. Call
> me Pollyanna.


I'm with you, Brit. You expressed it all very well. 

And, I, too, wanted her to be innocent. So sad for that whole family. And, for the precious and innocent young child whose life was taken ... Caylee.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

CharmingDior said:


> :HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley:
> I hate the commercials also! They are filled with stuff that only makes the trial seem more dreary...depression commercials, life insurance, etc. And I would think that the people who are timing the commercials would use the common sense to determine where they should be placed! Not right before a witness testifies! We have learned to watch the case on both HLN and TRUtv. Usually when one goes to commercial the other is still on.
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks that the hosts are really annoying...I cannot stand the sound of Vinnie Politan's voice!:smilie_tischkante:


We seem to be doing the same thing with switching the channels back and forth so we don't miss something! :HistericalSmiley:

As for Vinnie ... I don't like when he interrupts women while they are trying to say something! That is ... R-U-D-E!!!


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

matilda's mommy said:


> casey will stand before god one day


Amen.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

michellerobison said:


> I don't get parent protecting their kids when they commit crimes,I see it all the time. They harbour them if they run from the law,they lie to cover for them. What does that teach them?


I agree. I don't understand parents who do that. 

And, that is why I liked how Judge Perry handled the 28 year old in court ... the guy who didn't follow the rules. I only laughed at the time ... because I thought it served the guy right ... that his family, and whole world, got to see the consequences of his bad behavior. As Judge Perry was asking this guy questions before the sentence ... I kept on thinking of the Bill Cosby show and how Dr. Huxtable taught his kids lessons in regard to right and wrong! Judge Perry sounded so much like Cosby!!


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

CharmingDior said:


> :aktion033:
> Personally I do not believe she has a mental disorder. Maybe she is the textbook definition of BPD but, I was once told by a Doctor of Psychology that if everyone looked in the book they would all find some new condition and diagnosis. He didn't mean he does not believe in it but, you have to do more than just check out the book. With that being said, I believe that Casey is just a Master Manipulator. I know several people like her that will manipulate a situation until it no longer works, that will lie for no apparent reason, and who will jump into relationship after relationship. They have never been sexually abused, or abused in any way for that matter, they are young and attractive, they have been spoiled all their lives, and still yet they act like her. Would they kill their child or not report an accident...No. But, I know people like this and they are just proud to be smart enough to play the mind games with innocent people. I think it is possible for Casey to have this same issue...besides that, why would the defense not use this diagnosis or the 3 experts who evaluated her for the competency hearing not come up with some sort of diagnosis. Of course, those records are sealed but, the trial continued.
> 
> *************************************************
> 
> Brooke, I think BPD is considered a personality disorder moreso than a mental disorder. I know, that sounds confusing. But, I think that is exactly why Casey was evaluated competent ... because I think with BPD ... the person knws exactly what they are doing in regard to manipulations, etc. Maybe Michelle can explain this better.
> 
> As a side note ... BPD can be extremely difficult to treat. Many therapists and psychologists are hesitant to take on clients/patients with this disorder, because this type personality react to psychiatric professionals the same way they do in other relationships. If they are sensitive to a professionals advice or feedback ... they turn against that person, too. Unfortunatley, it is extremely difficult to reason with someone who has personality disorder.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

Matilda's mommy said:


> so true, I do think George knows more then he is saying


I think so, too.


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## kathym

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I think so, too.


 
He was a cop.When he went to the car and knew the smell coming from the trunk in one way he was a cop knew the smell and on the other he is a father and his emotions won at first, UNTIL she threw him under a truck with the rape etc..
This reminds me of the move the bad seed...


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## CharmingDior

Well...it says they have reached a verdict and I really did not think it would be so soon. I honestly thought it would be no less than a week...and boom, come home from classes and lo and behold a flashing red and white "VERDICT REACHED!"

I believe the jury had their mind made up a long time ago, unfortunately.:mellow:


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

CharmingDior said:


> Well...it says they have reached a verdict and I really did not think it would be so soon. I honestly thought it would be no less than a week...and boom, come home from classes and lo and behold a flashing red and white "VERDICT REACHED!"
> 
> I believe the jury had their mind made up a long time ago, unfortunately.:mellow:


I didn't think they could possibly reach a verdict until at least tomorrow or Thursday ... At the earliest. I was wrong.


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## CharmingDior

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I didn't think they could possibly reach a verdict until at least tomorrow or Thursday ... At the earliest. I was wrong.


I am absolutely FLABBERGASTED! Cannot believe this crap!


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