# yes or no to buying this baby from this breeder



## biscuit (Feb 13, 2008)

**sigh**

Hi everyone!! 

This is my second post and I desperately need help. 

I've been looking for a maltese for months now but after reading about buying one from online and having it ship to me. I got scared and didnt trust anyone. All those puppymills!! Just scary. So I thought that if i saw the puppy myself I would trust the person better. This is all before I start coming into this site and start getting more informations. 

here's my story...

I saw an ad online from www.kijiji.com. This lady was selling 4 puppies that was borned Dec 1 from my area and taking deposit for them and that they will not be ready til around valentine. 2 males and 2 females from 500 to 800. So of course i got excited. I emailed her and set up a date to go see the puppies.

When I got there she took out the parents and introduced us to them. They were soo sweet and friendly. :wub: Afterward she took the parents away and brought out the puppies that was sleeping in the kitchen. They were soooooooo cute. I fell in love when I saw them. We decided on the little boy which will be around 4lbs when fully grown. He was soo much like his dad which sat on my lap the whole time we saw him. 

Sorrie to make this soo long but when I saw her health warranty on this puppy....i was wondering If any good breeders out there that actually put this part in their contact ...this is a quote from her contact 

"9. The Purchaser agrees to pay for Breeder’s legal fees should the Purchaser not fulfill contractual obligations. Purchaser agrees to let Breeder determine venue. Should any litigation arise regarding the puppy for any reason the Purchaser is obligated to pay the Breeder’s legal fees." 

I already put a 200 deposit down for my baby but I was wondering IF i should go thru with it...I am suppose to pick up my baby this monday. Should I pick him up and give him the love he needs coming into my family and hope for the best or should I just let it go and hopefully another family will give him the best that he deserve? 

Please help!!!


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

> "9. The Purchaser agrees to pay for Breeder’s legal fees should the Purchaser not fulfill contractual obligations. Purchaser agrees to let Breeder determine venue. Should any litigation arise regarding the puppy for any reason the Purchaser is obligated to pay the Breeder’s legal fees."[/B]


I went to look at the site where you were buying from and without knowing where you are from I can't view it. 
What are your "contractual obligations"? How old is the puppy you are buying? What health garantee does this breeder give you? 
Some good breeder's put clauses in their contracts that have that if they have to take you to court for something that the buyer is responsible for the court fees.
It's pretty scary buying anything from any one right now. If you are not comfortable with the contract then you have answered your own question. 
Tina


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## biscuit (Feb 13, 2008)

I am sorrie the ad must have been deleted from that one. Here is another site where she post her babies http://www.pluba.com/classified/displayAd.asp?id=11021

The puppies was borned on Dec 1. So they are around 11 weeks old. The breeder did give me a contract to look at but I thought it was kinda long to post on here. It does include 1 year congential disease and all. I was also told that the contract is nothing more than a sheet of paper and that I couldnt do much about it if anything does happen rayer: 

sigh***


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

> It does include 1 year congential disease and all. I was also told that the contract is nothing more than a sheet of paper and that I couldnt do much about it if anything does happen[/B]


Unfortunately you are right about contracts. She doesn't have a web site. For the price she is asking it doens't say if she has registered the litter to a registry. Like AKC (American Kennel Club). She is what is termed a "back yard breeder'. Breeds one or two litters a year for money. Believe me, there isn't making any money when you do it the "right" way. Is the dad of this puppy pretty small, you said the puppy will be 4 lbs when grown? 
To give you an idea of what "quality" maltese look like go out to this site. Http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/ clink on links this site provides a listing of American Maltese Breeder's and Reputable breeders. It's not the same as seeing them in person but you can kinda get a feel for what a really nice maltese looks like. I would be more than happy to answer any of your questions. There are several of us on this forum who do breed Maltese. Not to mention all the great advice you get from all the member's on this forum. 
Tina


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

> **sigh**
> 
> Hi everyone!!
> 
> ...


This is a clause I have in my contract that my mentor also has in her's. I hope it helps. You will notice how it says the winner is entitled to recover their expenses. Not the breeder but "winner".

(In the event that this contract is breached, and a lawsuit arises. The winner is entitled to recover their expenses, including 
reasonable attorneys fee’s. The laws of the State of Florida will govern, and any claims will be handled in court in the State of Florida and in the county in which the breeder resides.)

I hope that this helps!!


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

If you're having doubts, don't do it. $200 is a small amount to
lose compared to the heartache and dollars you may spend if the
dog is not well bred.
As for that clause, I think the court determines who pays who's
expenses.


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## pixxee84 (Jan 23, 2008)

I wouldn't worry so much about the clause. If litigation were to arrise, whoever lost the case, if it went to court, or medeation would pay the expenses. It is a good sign that you saw the parents. A red flag of a bad breeder is not showing you the parents. Where did she get the parents from, when she brought them into you? It is always good to look at the living conditions for the parents as well. It will give you an idea of how much she cares for the dogs. Also, make sure to check to see if her name, or a phone number associated with her, is on the list of USDA breeders or brokers. If it is, this is another redflag that this puppy is probably a product of a puppy mill.


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## beckybc03 (Jul 6, 2006)

> If you're having doubts, don't do it. $200 is a small amount to
> lose compared to the heartache and dollars you may spend if the
> dog is not well bred.
> As for that clause, I think the court determines who pays who's
> expenses.[/B]


If it is in the contract that the buyer would be responsible for legal fees (and the buyer didn't win the case) then the buyer would be responsible regardless of what a judge thought because that is what the parties agreed to. Does the contract say that if you win then the breeder would have to pay you back?

Ok honestly this is my take on it. Are you seriously going to sue for anything regarding a 500-800 puppy?? Probably not. It would cost you waaaaaaaaaaaay more than that to sue in court. That is like 3 hours or less of a lawyers time. So, if this is the only concern that you have about the breeder then I would ignore it to be completely honest. BUT, I agree with Brit 100%. If you are concerned about the quality of the breeders breeding program or of the health of the pup, $200 is NOTHING compared to the costs you would incur. So, I would not consider this clause at all and just determine whether or not you want a dog from that breeder.


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## biscuit (Feb 13, 2008)

thanks everyone for responding :wub: I love this forum and I learn a lot about malts. everyone have been great !!! 

I know that she is probably a byb and I am not supporting her by buying one of her babies but how can you not fall in love after seeing their faces :wub: She has been very nice and she did answer all of my questions. I dont know what will happen after I get my lil biscuit but lets just hope she will still be nice and understanding afterward rayer: 

The only thing that got me kinda upset was because the part that was in her contract about going to court. I am not going to take her to court or anything. If anything does happen (crossing fingers) I will be there to take care of my baby. And of course I have u guys to help me raise my lil biscuit :wub: :biggrin: 

Thanks everyone !!


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Biscuit,

Please forgive me for saying this, but I am a little bit confused. You stated that you were not going to support the BYB that you gave a deposit to, but indicated that you will be getting one of the puppies in the last paragraph.

Just wanted to understand whether or not you are getting one or not? Personally, no matter where you get your pet, you will love it just the same. 

There are many people who cannot afford a totally pure bred puppy (probably more so than not) and they love their animals just as much. They are part of your family. 

Neither of our dogs that we have had in the past have been champion sired or show quality and they have been very well taken care of and loved so much.

Snuggle's Mom


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> thanks everyone for responding :wub: I love this forum and I learn a lot about malts. everyone have been great !!!
> 
> I know that she is probably a byb and I am not supporting her by buying one of her babies but how can you not fall in love after seeing their faces :wub: She has been very nice and she did answer all of my questions. I dont know what will happen after I get my lil biscuit but lets just hope she will still be nice and understanding afterward rayer:
> 
> ...


That's why we always recommend that you do your homework and determine if a breeder is reputable before looking at puppies. It's pretty hard to make an intelligent decision in a room full of puppies.

I'm confused, though. You say you won't support a backyard breeder, but it sounds like you are going forward with the purchase of this puppy anyway?


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## ShilohsMom (Jun 25, 2007)

Personally I would be put off by that clause. It sounds like she wants absolutely no responsibility after the sale. Not too encouraging and for me its a red flag. Has she been sued before comes to mind. Just because you have seen her and her home in person doesn't make her any less of a BYB (aka people just in it for the extra money) than the puppy millers online. Everyone has to make their own choices in obtaining a maltese and I'm disappointed to hear another BYB being supported. I am not upset with you just the aspect of how people want a cute little dog right now and continue to support them. 

If you take this puppy I hope that he is healthy is all I can say.


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## biscuit (Feb 13, 2008)

sorry to make things so confusing. 

What I meant was that .........before I knew about this forum and about BYB. I thought by just seeing the parents and the puppies and their living conditions were good enough already. So I made a deposit to get one of the babies. But after doing a lot of research on how to take care of them and finding this forum I learned a lot. 

I know some would say .......1. that by buying one of those puppies from a byb that I would be like supporting her. 2. And that the 200bucks for the deposit is nothing compare to all the heartaches i will go thru if something does happen. 3. And that I should go do more reseach and find a reputable breeders. 

I was really excited this morning and decided that I would get my lil biscuit on Monday. I didnt really care what people thought or would be saying about me But then I thought to myself that everyone on here have 1 or 2 or even 3 malts and they know much more than I do. That's why I am back on here still trying to get more advices. I still got til Monday to make a decision.

sorrie for the confusions
any advices would be very appreciated!!


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## ShilohsMom (Jun 25, 2007)

If you decide not to get this little guy and tell us what state or part of the country you are in we can recommend some good breeders to you. Yes we hate to see the heartache members experience here when their cute little puppy ends up having a lot of health issues. If you are undecided I recommend asking the breeder all of these questions if you have not yet. Based on what you said I would pass and find a good breeder but these questions can put you in the right direction as to what you should be looking for.

Questions to Ask Maltese Breeder


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

> sorry to make things so confusing.
> 
> What I meant was that .........before I knew about this forum and about BYB. I thought by just seeing the parents and the puppies and their living conditions were good enough already. So I made a deposit to get one of the babies. But after doing a lot of research on how to take care of them and finding this forum I learned a lot.
> 
> ...



I think we've pretty much said all there is to say. Most of us feel backyard
breeders perpetuate the suffering of more dogs when you purchase a pup
from them. 
You say you wouldn't sue the breeder, but if that pup would need Liver Shunt
surgery, which can amount to $5,000, you might reconsider that. There
are so many things that can go wrong with pups from these type of breeders
and we are simply trying to help you make an informed decision.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

i didn't do my homework the first time and although i love my little man, i will *never* go that rout again. 
i've learned my lesson the hard way... and the people here are trying to keep you from doing the same. 

there is another post here about a woman who has had her pup for only a couple weeks and the pup had
taken sick. she took her to the vet only to discover the pup will most likely need surgery for her shunt to live.

don't make the same mistake and purchase your malt with the full knowledge that you are doing wrong.
if your pup were to fall ill, you'll be very upset you didn't take our advice. we're only thinking of you.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=528265
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[attachment=34033:goodpost.gif]

Have you asked this breeder what health testing she does on her breeding dogs? A backyard breeder will usually tell you the vet "checked them out" meaning he listened to their heart, lungs, etc. That does not qualify as health testing.

All purebred dogs have certain inherited conditions that their particular breed is prone to. A reputable breeder is aware of these genetic diseases and carefully screens all her dogs prior to breeding them. Maltese should be screened for liver shunts and MVD, luxating patellas, thyroid imbalances and eye problems. A good breeder will be able to discuss what health testing the parents of her puppies have had *and show you documentation*.

As Brit said, surgery for a liver shunt can run $5,000. Knee surgery for luxating patellas runs in the thousands, too. Getting a puppy from a breeder who has not screened for these conditions is taking a huge risk.

Have you asked her what registry she uses? It's important that the puppies are eligible to be regsitered with the AKC. Be leery of breeders who use the "alternative" registries like the CKC, ACA, APRI, etc. Backyard breeders and puppy mills use these registries because they can't qualify with the AKC who requires DNA testing and kennel inspections or they have been suspended from the AKC. Many byb's will tell you they don't use the AKC because they are "too expensive". That's a very common excuse. Papers from any other registry but the AKC are just that, a worthless piece of paper.

Have you asked to see the pedigrees of the parents of these puppies? Again, this is something that should be done as part of the screening process when selecting a breeder.

It is very difficult to be objective when looking at puppies, but if you want a puppy that will be grow up to look and act like a Maltese you must deal with a reputable breeder who is breeding to the standard. Too often we get people here who are terribly disapponted to find out that their puppy grew to be twelve pounds and have a curly coat, not at all what they pictured.


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## ShilohsMom (Jun 25, 2007)

No that anyone can gauge completely accurately but I went back and looked at the ad again and it says the male will be 6 pounds not 4 pounds grown. LadysMom, excellent post and info as always- good luck to you whatever you decide OP.


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## biscuit (Feb 13, 2008)

> No that anyone can gauge completely accurately but I went back and looked at the ad again and it says the male will be 6 pounds not 4 pounds grown. LadysMom, excellent post and info as always- good luck to you whatever you decide OP.[/B]




She have 2 babies left (the ones in the middle) a boy that will be 6lbs and a girl that will be around 5. The one on the right was the one that I was planning to adopt. 


Thanks everyone for the info :wub: very very helpful


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