# Give me a bath Mom!



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

I felt well enough for a short walk today.... Gus and Gracie were so happy 

Got home and Gus was bugging me... So asked what he wanted... He ran into the bathroom and jumped in the tub... How weird is that???/

So guess it was bath day. Gracie didn't appreciate the change in schedule but... I love her after baths... So fluffy!

I'm letting her hair grow a bit... Will see how it goes.

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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

Well Gus sure is a smart cookie, and Grace looks so cute with her hair longer .glad you're feeling a little better Tori.


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## Madeleinesmommy (Nov 30, 2012)

That is too cute! Maddie has done a few times.


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Gus is too funny! Maybe he was hot from his walk and wanted to cool off??
I love Gracie's longer ears. Very cute!
Sounds like you had a fun day together


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## Cyndilou (Jan 24, 2013)

Glad you're feeling better. I'm just found out my Dr thinks I have chronic Lyme disease. He is currently testing my for MS. I had lumbar puncture on Friday and when I was a teenager I had Lyme and he is worried about chronic Lyme disease. I maybe having to talkies with you.thanks. The fatigue has be horrible. I was use to being so active now I am wiped out. I've had migraines since I was a kid but now they are horrible and the jelly feeling in my legs is so scary. I'm about to get freaked out about. Ill keep in touch with you. My next appointment is Friday. I have had this neurologist since I was about 16 and I'm 43 now so he knows me pretty good.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Cyndi -

What was the Lumbar Puncture for?

It is not a recommended test for Lyme - really hard near impossible to get positive results from that...and tends to cause problems with recurring pain (Lyme slows healing).

I'm happy to talk to you... If you doctor is thinking MS- you have Lyme. MS is Lyme. The two most common misdiagnosis' for women are MS and Lupus.

Lyme can *cause* MS... but with proper treatment things get much better.

If he is serious about helping you test, talk to him about IGENEX - they are the best tick borne lab...


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Grace'sMom said:


> I felt well enough for a short walk today.... Gus and Gracie were so happy
> 
> Got home and Gus was bugging me... So asked what he wanted... He ran into the bathroom and jumped in the tub... How weird is that???/
> 
> ...


Glad you're with a bit more energy . Gus and grace look adorable! The pic of Gus in the tub is priceless.


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Grace'sMom said:


> Cyndi -
> 
> What was the Lumbar Puncture for?
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, Cyndi that you aren't feeling well 

Tori, a lumbar puncture is absolutely indicated in the work-up of MS as is an MRI. There are very specific findings that will show in MS on both of these tests (although may not in Lyme). Although some may have a misdiagnosis based on symptoms, this absolutely does not mean that people cannot have just MS alone. MS may co-exist with Lyme in certain cases, but not all. MS does not equal Lyme. 


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## TobyC's Mom (Sep 26, 2013)

Sorry you been under the weather and do hope your feeling better soon!

Gracie look soooo adorable in the bath tub!


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## kilodzul (Oct 7, 2013)

What a smart and decided guy Gus is!


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

hoaloha said:


> I'm sorry, Cyndi that you aren't feeling well
> 
> Tori, a lumbar puncture is absolutely indicated in the work-up of MS as is an MRI. There are very specific findings that will show in MS on both of these tests (although may not in Lyme). Although some may have a misdiagnosis based on symptoms, this absolutely does not mean that people cannot have just MS alone. MS may co-exist with Lyme in certain cases, but not all. MS does not equal Lyme.
> 
> ...



Every MS patient we've had come to Lyme forums when they get tested, test positive for Lyme or have enough symptoms for a clinical diagnosis (which general doctors and specialists won't do).

Every LLMD will tell you: Every single MS patient they have had come into their office - when treated with ILADS protocol for Lyme Disease - get better.

Every single one.

Sorry.... there is so much general doctors and non-lyme specialists need to learn about Lyme Disease. It isn't what is put in your medical books or studies published by the IDSA, NIH, CDC.... Look at ILADS.

Again. I'm sorry. Millions are sick and we fight so hard with things like that belief - that MS is a valid diagnosis. The treatment for it makes treating Lyme that much harder... and where MS is just about managing symptoms and knowing they will get worse.... Lyme treatment offers remission... 

If we were so wrong.... we wouldn't be getting better when we see LLMDs... but we are getting better... 

I'm sorry....


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Grace'sMom said:


> Every MS patient we've had *come to Lyme forums* when they get tested, test positive for Lyme or have enough symptoms for a clinical diagnosis (which general doctors and specialists won't do).
> 
> Every LLMD will tell you: Every single MS patient *they have had *come into their office - when treated with ILADS protocol for Lyme Disease - get better.
> 
> ...


Tori, I'm not sure why you are saying "I'm sorry."? The population you are describing is just one subset of people who have been diagnosed (or misdiagnosed) with MS, not ALL people with MS.  Even the LLMD's only see a subset of people with the diagnosis, "MS." MS is thought to have environmental triggers in the setting of people who may genetically predisposed. NOT all of the environmental triggers for EVERYONE with MS is Lyme disease. that is my point. MS does not equal lyme. Can lyme trigger MS- yes. For some individuals, the trigger could be a virus (like EBV) or other bacterial infections. I do think it's worth it to evaluate for lyme disease in patients who present with MS. Does that mean EVERYONE with MS has lyme as their specific trigger? No. I think to generalize that everyone with MS has lyme is simply inaccurate.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

hoaloha said:


> Tori, I'm not sure why you are saying "I'm sorry."? The population you are describing is just one subset of people who have been diagnosed (or misdiagnosed) with MS, not ALL people with MS. Even the LLMD's only see a subset of people with the diagnosis, "MS." MS is thought to have environmental triggers in the setting of people who may genetically predisposed. NOT all of the environmental triggers for EVERYONE with MS is Lyme disease. that is my point. MS does not equal lyme. Can lyme trigger MS- yes. For some individuals, the trigger could be a virus (like EBV) or other bacterial infections. I do think it's worth it to evaluate for lyme disease in patients who present with MS. Does that mean EVERYONE with MS has lyme as their specific trigger? No. I think to generalize that everyone with MS has lyme is simply inaccurate.


I don't really like debating... but this is such an important topic for me. I've had friends die because their insurance or state assistance refuses to cover their Lyme treatment because of an MS diagnosis. They are forced to either do MS treatment or nothing.

The reason LLMDs only see a subset, is because most people being diagnosed with MS are usually struggling to cope with serious health issues, are overwhelmed by the possibility of MS, and they don't know to ask about Lyme disease. Their doctors will rarely every give them the information about Lyme Disease. Especially if they don't live in a "Lyme" state. If they do, the majority of the information they give is inaccurate. 


_Does that mean EVERYONE with MS has lyme as their specific trigger?_

Yes. I think in 5-10 years time, the truth will come out, and that is exactly what is going to be uncovered.

That along with ALS, Lupus, Fibro, CFS, and the majority of Parkinson's cases.

I pray it doesn't take that long, but based on how hard the IDSA and CDC is trying to silence those of us with Chronic Lyme and our doctors- it will probably be that long.

And yes, viruses play a role in it. But if someone has a chronic virus, Lyme should be suspected.

I guess I say sorry because I respect you Marisa...and I don't want you to think I don't....


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Grace'sMom said:


> I don't really like debating... but this is such an important topic for me. I've had friends die because their insurance or state assistance refuses to cover their Lyme treatment because of an MS diagnosis. They are forced to either do MS treatment or nothing.
> 
> The reason LLMDs only see a subset, is because most people being diagnosed with MS are usually struggling to cope with serious health issues, are overwhelmed by the possibility of MS, and they don't know to ask about Lyme disease. Their doctors will rarely every give them the information about Lyme Disease. Especially if they don't live in a "Lyme" state. If they do, the majority of the information they give is inaccurate.
> 
> ...


Tori, I didn't find any disrespect in your post and I hope you didn't find any in mine. I think your passion is unparalleled. We may have different opinions on certain things, but that's all  I honestly can't and won't speak for all physicians out there, but all patients that we've evaluated for pediatric MS do get a lyme and expanded infectious disease work-up. I personally care about my patients so anything that comes up to help, I look forward to it. Please understand that I just see medical advice via internet as potentially misleading (as well as potentially helpful in certain cases). I hold my tongue a lot on this forum because there is a lot of doctor-bashing that goes on here in general. I guess I just do the best I absolutely can with my patients, but medicine is not perfect. I do hope we find a cure to these debilitating chronic illnesses as much as you do  

Glad you're feeling better and hope you get to spend some quality time with Gus and Grace!


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks Marisa,

I didn't take any offense....


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Gus & Grace both look adorable. . . I know you are a great mom! I am glad you felt up to a short walk. We take so much for granted!


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

No disrespect but perhaps a dog forum isn't the best platform for medical advice for humans? Lets stick to the dog topics. 

:back2topic:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I have no issue w/discussing medical or other unassociated with dog topics, but maybe it would be more suitable under "Anything Goes" as a different topic---that way if someone is uninterested they can bypass it.


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## maltese manica (Nov 6, 2012)

I would have fainted if you told me that it was Gracie that wanted a bath  Gus is a good little guy!! And we know that Gracie as cute as she is, ........................she really is a ninja in the bathroom! LOL


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