# Size of food you buy?



## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

Well Caesar is almost a year old and i have about half a bag of his puppy food (Science Diet-the big bites) and thought I would go ahead and buy the adult bag when we were shopping a while ago and then mix it in with his puppy food. Anyway we bought the adult (Science Diet) big bites, not knowing how BIG they are!  Anyway at first he loved them would pick those out and not even touch the puppy food. Now he doesn't seem to care for the 'big' adult bites as much. The other night he put one in his mouth and spit it out, I am wondering if they are maybe too big. So for the adult food, do you guys use the big bites or the small bites? Thanks


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Caesar's Mommie_@Dec 7 2004, 10:15 AM
> *Well Caesar is almost a year old and i have about half a bag of his puppy food (Science Diet-the big bites) and thought I would go ahead and buy the adult bag when we were shopping a while ago and then mix it in with his puppy food.  Anyway we bought the adult (Science Diet) big bites, not knowing how BIG they are!    Anyway at first he loved them would pick those out and not even touch the puppy food.  Now he doesn't seem to care for the 'big' adult bites as much.  The other night he put one in his mouth and spit it out, I am wondering if they are maybe too big.  So for the adult food, do you guys use the big bites or the small bites?  Thanks
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I believe Science Diet uses by-products and preservatives that aren't all that safe. I'd go with another brand such as Innova, etc. Their bites are too terribly large. I believe Solid Gold has a new one called, Wee Bites.....


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Dec 7 2004, 09:18 AM-->
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I believe Science Diet uses by products and preservatives that aren't all that safe. I'd go with another brand such as Innova, etc. Their bites are too terribly large. I believe Solid Gold has a new one called, Wee Bites.....
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Oh wow, thanks. I didnt know that about Science Diet. It what his breeder started him on and we have had really good luck with it for the most part, so didn't try another brand. Can I get any of those at Walmart (I have one of those in town, so if I can I'll go up there tonight) or are they usually sold at the pet stores?


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

How about Hill's?? Isnt that made from the same company as Science Diet?


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

if it wasnt safe, they couldnt sell it. the food is AFCO tested and food trial tested, which means it is safe, which some of the holistic brands are not, so be careful.

sorry to rent but SCIENCE DIET IS FINE!


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Dec 7 2004, 09:23 AM
> *if it wasnt safe, they couldnt sell it.  the food is AFCO tested and food trial tested, which means it is safe, which some of the holistic brands are not, so be careful.
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> sorry to rent but SCIENCE DIET IS FINE!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=20823*


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Okay thank you.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

sorry...its my achillies heel...i told my self to stay away from a food post, but i couldnt resist.


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Dec 7 2004, 09:27 AM
> *sorry...its my achillies heel...i told my self to stay away from a food post, but i couldnt resist.
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Lol, its okay. I was liking oh no I have been feeding my baby puppy food that has a bunch of additives in it which isn't good for him. Now I dont feel so bad


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

but to answer your question....parker was eating really big bites (t/d) but he would take them all over the house and leave crumbs....he kinda did the same w/ regular science diet bites and small bites. but he did eat it. i finally got fed up w/ all the crumbs, and did something i told myself i would never do. i switched him to can. i figured...im going to be a vet, i can clean his teeth any time i want once i am in practice. so for now i check his teeth all the time.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Dec 7 2004, 10:23 AM
> *if it wasnt safe, they couldnt sell it.  the food is AFCO tested and food trial tested, which means it is safe, which some of the holistic brands are not, so be careful.
> 
> sorry to rent but SCIENCE DIET IS FINE!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=20823*


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It may be technically safe but who wants to serve their babies food with cow eyes, ears, and gosh who knows what other parts in it. And some of the preservatives that are used aren't the best choice and they use cheap fillers. 

IMHO giving our dogs a high quality food is something we should all do. It is usually nutrient dense and the dogs needs less of it so it isn't that much more expensive... and with our little ones... they don't eat that much anyway..... 

Look at the human food out there... hydrogenated fats have been associated with all sorts of illnesses and yet it has taken an "army" to finally get the word out and for companies to quit using it in their foods..... Just because something is "approved" doesn't necessarily mean it is the best choice.... Just my two cents!!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Caesar's Mommie+Dec 7 2004, 10:29 AM-->
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Lol, its okay. I was liking oh no I have been feeding my baby puppy food that has a bunch of additives in it which isn't good for him. Now I dont feel so bad








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yes dont worry...being afco food trial tested is the most important thing about dogs foods....they feed that food to dogs for extended periods of time to make sure it is safe for our pets. it will say on the label that it is afco food trial tested if it is....other wise if it just meets afco standards, then it was just run through a machine to make sure it contains what is needed but might have something eles in it that can harm your dog.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

dogs in the wild eat every part of their prey..its what they eat...i eat byproducts all the time..they taste good. i feed park pigs ears on purpose b/c he loves them


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Dec 7 2004, 09:31 AM-->
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It may be technically safe but who wants to serve their babies food with cow eyes, ears, and gosh who knows what other parts in it. And some of the preservatives that are used aren't the best choice and they use cheap fillers. 

IMHO giving our dogs a high quality food is something we should all do. It is usually nutrient dense and the dogs needs less of it so it isn't that much more expensive... and with our little ones... they don't eat that much anyway..... 

Look at the human food out there... hydrogenated fats have been associated with all sorts of illnesses and yet it has taken an "army" to finally get the word out and for companies to quit using it in their foods..... Just because something is "approved" doesn't necessarily mean it is the best choice.... Just my two cents!!








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I will look at the other brands you have suggested, where can I find them? If Walmart carries them Ill run up there tonight, otherwise I won't go back to a pet store for awhile.


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava+Dec 7 2004, 09:34 AM-->
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yes dont worry...being afco food trial tested is the most important thing about dogs foods....they feed that food to dogs for extended periods of time to make sure it is safe for our pets. it will say on the label that it is afco food trial tested if it is....other wise if it just meets afco standards, then it was just run through a machine to make sure it contains what is needed but might have something eles in it that can harm your dog.
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Oh okay, I was just gonna ask you if it said on the bag if it was AFCO tested. Thank you.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kodie_@Dec 7 2004, 10:22 AM
> *How about Hill's?? Isnt that made from the same company as Science Diet?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=20822*


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Yes, Hills makes Science Diet....


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

and im not saying its wrong to switch just make sure it is afco FOOD TRIAL tested, some holistic brands are. just play it safe.

this is all coming from a vet who is a diplomate in animal nutrition...i trust her advice.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Dec 7 2004, 09:39 AM
> *and im not saying its wrong to switch  just make sure it is afco FOOD TRIAL tested, some holistic brands are.  just play it safe.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=20844*


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Yes I will do that. I will just look at the other ones, cause I am wondering if it is the flavor or hte size he doesnt like. My grandma gives her dog canned food so when we were there a few months ago she gave Caesar some, it was all over his face! He loved it though.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

human drugs they rush through the testing process....keep in mind science diet has been around since 1943. its been through many tests in all those years. but any way i need to stop posting here before i anger anyone and i should be studying for my equine final so i can be a great nonhorse vet. but any ways it will say on the bag if it is food trial tested...just look up afco food trial online. there are two types of statements the one saying "food trial" is the one you want your bag to say.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Caesar's Mommie+Dec 7 2004, 10:35 AM-->
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I will look at the other brands you have suggested, where can I find them? If Walmart carries them Ill run up there tonight, otherwise I won't go back to a pet store for awhile.
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I am not a Wal-Mart fan... only been there twice... but I would not imagine them having Innova, Solid Gold, etc. In my town, I have to get high quality food and treats at a specialty pet supply store. Sometimes PetSmart will have some items. Also, we have an Earth Fare grocery store that carries Innova and the new Paul Newman Organic food.... It has "lovely" ingredients in it!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

and if you wanted to stick w/ science diet..they do have a natures best which is all natural ingredients.....but go ahead and switch if you are worried....ok im gonna stop...i swear this time


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Dec 7 2004, 09:52 AM-->
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I am not a Wal-Mart fan... only been there twice... but I would not imagine them having Innova, Solid Gold, etc. In my town, I have to get high quality food and treats at a specialty pet supply store. Sometimes PetSmart will have some items. Also, we have an Earth Fare grocery store that carries Innova and the new Paul Newman Organic food.... It has "lovely" ingredients in it!
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I feed Lexi Innova. I like it because the pieces are flat triangles. They are big enough that it helps clean her teeth but not so big that she has a hard time chewing. I would not recommend this though until the puppies is around 6 months old. When they are really little the pieces would be too big.


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom+Dec 7 2004, 09:58 AM-->
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I am not a Wal-Mart fan... only been there twice... but I would not imagine them having Innova, Solid Gold, etc. In my town, I have to get high quality food and treats at a specialty pet supply store. Sometimes PetSmart will have some items. Also, we have an Earth Fare grocery store that carries Innova and the new Paul Newman Organic food.... It has "lovely" ingredients in it!
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I feed Lexi Innova. I like it because the pieces are flat triangles. They are big enough that it helps clean her teeth but not so big that she has a hard time chewing. I would not recommend this though until the puppies is around 6 months old. When they are really little the pieces would be too big.
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Yeah Caesar will be 1 on Thursday


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

It's well known that Hills, the maker of Science Diet and prescription foods, heavily funds vet schools and seminars which is why vets "push" their brand of food. Whether or not Science Diet is safe, there are much better products out there, made with higher quality ingredients. Not necessarily "holistic", but far better than SD and easily available in Petsmart or other pet stores. A general rule of thumb is to stay away from pet foods sold in grocery stores and Walmart-type places - they are the bottom of the line, made from the worst of the waste from the human food industry.

Here are a couple of must-read articles:

http://www.drkarenbecker.com/nutrition/und..._food_indus.htm

http://www.api4animals.org/79.htm

After you read about butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA) and butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT), and ethoxyquin in the article from the Animal Protection Institute, go to the Hills website and look at how many of their dry prescription formulas contain BHT, BDA and ethoxyquin. 

http://www.hillspet.com/_refacing/utilities/SiteSelector.jsp

Then ask yourself if you still think Hill's foods are safe.


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Dec 7 2004, 09:47 AM
> *human drugs they rush through the testing process....keep in mind science diet has been around since 1943.  its been through many tests in all those years.  but any way i need to stop posting here before i anger anyone and i should be studying for my equine final so i can be a great nonhorse vet.  but any ways it will say on the bag if it is food trial tested...just look up afco food trial online.  there are two types of statements the one saying "food trial" is the one you want your bag to say.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=20856*


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That is a good point that it has been around that long. Haha I start finals next Monday and have my last tests in my classes today and tomorrow. I need to study for my pediatric test that is later today, but I am just so ready to be done its hard to concentrate! haha


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Dec 7 2004, 10:06 AM
> *It's well known that Hills, the maker of Science Diet and prescription foods, heavily funds vet schools and seminars which is why vets "push" their brand of food. Whether or not Science Diet is safe, there are much better products out there, made with higher quality ingredients. Not necessarily "holistic", but far better than SD and easily available in Petsmart or other pet stores. A general rule of thumb is to stay away from pet foods sold in grocery stores and Walmart-type places - they are the bottom of the line, made from the worst of the waste from the human food industry.
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Thanks for the info


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

Lexi will be 11 months old on Christmas day. I just swithced her over to the adult food last week. The puppy food has a lot of calories and she is not as active as she was during the summer. So I decided to switch to adult. She loves it! She is cleaning her bowl every time I feed her. Before she would eat it but would leave a little bit. Lexi gets 1/2 cup a day. I give her 1/4 cup in the morning and another 1/4 cup at night.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

On the Innova website you can search for stores near you that sell it.

Store Search


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Dec 7 2004, 10:09 AM
> *Lexi will be 11 months old on Christmas day.  I just swithced her over to the adult food last week.  The puppy food has a lot of calories and she is not as active as she was during the summer.  So I decided to switch to adult.  She loves it!  She is cleaning her bowl every time I feed her.  Before she would eat it but would leave a little bit.  Lexi gets 1/2 cup a day.  I give her 1/4 cup in the morning and another 1/4 cup at night.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=20882*


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I had heard that about the calories also. I will look into getting the same food for Caesar then if you are having such good luck with it for Lexi.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## a2z (Aug 23, 2004)

How about the Nutro brand? They have adult small bites and you can find it at Petsmart or Petco. Zoey likes it and she's a picky picky eater!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

the vet that taught me about afco food trials did not push science diet....she doesnt feed her dogs science diet. she doesnt say not to. she just makes sure its food trial tested. 
the dr karen article states this at the bottom: "Also concerning is that none of the claims need to be proven by feeding trials and, therefore, do not insure nutritional adequacy or quality. Claims on pet foods can be made if either of the two requirements are met: the food passes tests conducted in accordance with AAFCO protocols or it contains at least the minimum amounts of nutrients set forth by the NRC.

Because it is much faster to conduct nutritional analysis, most manufacturers select this option. However, nutritional analysis does not account for the excesses found in most diets. It does not test for harmful additives, which could cause significant health issues if fed over a prolonged period of time or address bioavailability."
so food trials are important.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

My parent's started feeding their dog, Oreo, theDick Van Patten's Natural Balance. She loves it. We tried to introduce it slowly but once we gave her some she would NOT eat her old food (Science Diet).


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

the other source i will not trust due to this statement: "propylene glycol (also used as a less-toxic version of automotive antifreeze)" propylene glycol is in many things just b/c it is one molecule different from antifreeze they act like it is toxic. water is one molecule different from peroxide....you can drink water..if you drink peroxide it makes you puke. they had an email going around about swiffer wet jets b/c it contains propylene glycol and how it was unsafe for pets, which was later retracted b/c it was untrue. its a common ingredient..its in most pet ear washes and some eye rinses. which brings up the point...how do you know what information to trust that you have learned from reading web sites?


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

can someone ban me from this post..i cant stop..i need help


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)

:excl:


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Dec 7 2004, 10:30 AM
> *can someone ban me from this post..i cant stop..i need help
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Your BANNED!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by a2z_@Dec 7 2004, 11:14 AM
> *How about the Nutro brand? They have adult small bites and you can find it at Petsmart or Petco. Zoey likes it and she's a picky picky eater!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=20890*


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The best thing to do is use the Pet Food Wizard and compare ingredients and nutritional values.

http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=comp-wiz&animal=Dog

Then go to a pet store that carries the brands you are interested and get some samples to try.


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Dec 7 2004, 10:30 AM
> *can someone ban me from this post..i cant stop..i need help
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Haha, I appreciate all the help, it's really okay


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

hahah...Lady Montava! It's a good discussion! I think you're holding your ground well. A good debate makes us all smarter and well informed







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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

well on that note....these comparison tools made by a company promoting their product of course it is going to make it look like their product is the best for your dog. so again, who can you trust. just feed your dog what you want..if it starts having problems, then worry. i could never debate like this in person..im a big wuss!

ok now on to the equine fetlock arthropathies!


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

Regarding Walmart brands-I know MANY people who feed their dogs the actual Walmart brand food-and they are perfectly healthy and fine. We feed our lab and bassett the lamb and rice formula...it has all the good ingredients listed first-meat-real lamb is first-

I feed my inside cats the Walmart Chicken and rice-their stools/coat did not change AT ALL from when I was feeding them the Science Diet! Those are the two important parts to me with the inside animals b/c of shedding of the cats and waste.

I liked Science Diet for Brinkley too when I used it-but he didn't really eat it well. He doesn't eat any dry food well that I have found yet.


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## Maxismom (Mar 24, 2004)

tell you the truth maxi doesnt like adult food he likes his lamb and rice puppy food with his chicken pieces i put in it
i have tried a few different brands which includes wellness 
he wont eat anything but that so thats what i stick with


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

its not good to keep him on the puppy food...it can be too high in some ingredients which can be harmful to him as a full grown adult. you might just have to give hima food and give him a few days to eat it. some dogs can be stubborn when it comes to their food.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole+Dec 7 2004, 11:14 AM-->
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Not a Wal-Mart fan?!?!?! LOL j/k

I have heard a little about Paul Newman's Organic food. Do you use it? Do you know where to purchase it from?
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I do use the Newman's Own brand.... Kallie really likes it. It is flat triangles....I prefer that shape to round pellets. The bag I have is called Newman's Own Premium Dog Food. The ingredients are:
"Chicken, Organic Barley, Organic Rice, Organic Milo, Organic Oats, Organic Ground Flax Seed, Chicken Meal, Organic Brown Rice, Chicken Fat (Naturally stabilized with Mixed Tocopherols, Citric Acid and Rosemary), Organic Carrots, Organic Potatoes, Dehydrated Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product", + more good stuff! 

I really like the fact that the ingredients are mostly organic, which means the chicken won't have been given antibiotics, etc. Here is what it says about the chicken, "We searched the United States for only the very best ingredients. We wouldn't settle for anything but the best for our pets or for yours! Our chicken is from Bell & Evans. That means hormone-free, vegetarian-fed chickens from the heart of Pennsylvania Dutch Country. No antibiotics, no steroids." The bag also says this, "Newman's Own Organics Chicken & Rice Formula Adult Dog Food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for all life stages." I guess this means they did not do the food trials....

Here is the web site: Newmans Own Pet Food


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn_@Dec 7 2004, 11:59 AM
> *Regarding Walmart brands-I know MANY people who feed their dogs the actual Walmart brand food-and they are perfectly healthy and fine. We feed our lab and bassett the lamb and rice formula...it has all the good ingredients listed first-meat-real lamb is first-
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> I feed my inside cats the Walmart Chicken and rice-their stools/coat did not change AT ALL from when I was feeding them the Science Diet!  Those are the two important parts to me with the inside animals b/c of shedding of the cats and waste.
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Personally, I would not ever trust a Wal-Mart brand that is eaten by humans or animals. Wal-Mart has a reputation for being all about making the most profit and corners might be cut..... It may not be fact, but it is the perception I have of that company. I know it is a very popular place for people to shop. It is just not my "cup of tea".


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Dec 7 2004, 10:35 AM
> *dogs in the wild eat every part of their prey..its what they eat...i eat byproducts all the time..they taste good. i feed park pigs ears on purpose b/c he loves them
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=20838*


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Gross!! Of course, I am a vegetarian (for the past 30 years) but the by-products are what are thrown away and are not for human consumtion.... stomachs, testicles, even eye balls ... who knows what is ground up in there....yuk!!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Here are the official definitions of pet food ingredients from the American Food Industry Association:

http://woofsportsusa.com/aafco.htm


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

ok... this is all good information and all.. but what is a person that has a dog on a special low protein diet supposed to do .... Hill's is the only brand i know that carries a liver diet type of dog food.







??????????????????????????????? You are all scaring me now..


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

stick w/ the l/d it is great for liver disease.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Dec 7 2004, 01:41 PM-->
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Personally, I would not ever trust a Wal-Mart brand that is eaten by humans or animals. Wal-Mart has a reputation for being all about making the most profit and corners might be cut..... It may not be fact, but it is the perception I have of that company. I know it is a very popular place for people to shop. It is just not my "cup of tea".
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Are you saying Walmart brands are not fit for human consumption? My family and I LIVE on mostly Walmart brand food-most of it is JUST like the name brand stuff!!! My dermatologist even told me to use the Walmart brand Cetaphil soap! I see no problem with Walmart brand items. They have to list ingredients just like any name-brand company. Most of the time, the ingredients are close to or exactly the same as the name brand equivalent. Walmart fits my budget-and I am a Wal-Mart fan. I know members of the Sam Walton family-have babysat his grandkids in the past-they are a very loving, Christian family. I don't see them as any more profit oriented than any of the other name brand companies. (post, folgers, kellogs, etc.) People laugh at me because in some instances, I like the Walmart (Sam's Choice, Equate) brand better than the original name brand item.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

must keep in mind that dogs are not humans even though we treat them that way. there body is made different. cows eat grass b/c they can digest it. if we could we would eat it b/c it is cheap. dogs cant eat onions b/c it makes their blood cells explode.....we are all different and can get by with eating different things. you should see what they feed to pigs! they are amazing in what they can turn into muscle!
there are no eyes nor testicles in science diet. besides people eat some of these items as a delicacy. those of you that are worried about what you are feeding your pets, keep in mind these by products will not kill your dog, they are not harmful. might not be the best quality ingredients. the ingredients are not fit for human consumption b/c humans wont eat it. they could live off of them, we choose not to. it we could find a use for all the parts im all for it. that poor animal had its life sacrifeced for our pets, and if we can use every part im all for it.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

Didnt you say that there is bad things in Hill's... So how is that gonna be good for Kodie in the LONG run?


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kodie_@Dec 7 2004, 02:21 PM
> *ok... this is all good information and all.. but what is a person that has a dog on a special low protein diet supposed to do .... Hill's is the only brand i know that carries a liver diet type of dog food.
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Several other companies manufacture prescription diets so it might pay to investigate. For instance, Waltham (now Royal Canin) makes a hepatic support diet, too. Many owners of diabetic dogs I know prefer to feed Waltham or Eukanuba's formula rather than Hills because the quality of the ingredients are arguably better (Hills uses ground up peanut hulls for fiber which makes up approx. 18% of the product).

http://www.prescriptiondiets.com/

As I said, Hills heavily funds vets which is why their products are pushed more than others.

Hills dry l/d formula contains ethoxyquin which is a toxin. I personally would not feed anything with BHT, BDA or ethoxyquin to a dog with liver disease. Australia has banned the use of ethoxyquin in its pet foods after doing a study on Beagles which showed the liver actually stopped detoxifying after consuming this chemical.

http://www.heatherlyaussies.com/ETHOXYQUIN...s%20cancer'

There is some exellent information from the FDA about reading labels on pet foods and deciphering what is really in the product. Might be worth doing with some of the Walmart brand food.

http://www.fda.gov/cvm/index/consumer/petlabel.htm


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Dec 7 2004, 02:27 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]

Are you saying Walmart brands are not fit for human consumption? My family and I LIVE on mostly Walmart brand food-most of it is JUST like the name brand stuff!!! My dermatologist even told me to use the Walmart brand Cetaphil soap! I see no problem with Walmart brand items. They have to list ingredients just like any name-brand company. Most of the time, the ingredients are close to or exactly the same as the name brand equivalent. Walmart fits my budget-and I am a Wal-Mart fan. I know members of the Sam Walton family-have babysat his grandkids in the past-they are a very loving, Christian family. I don't see them as any more profit oriented than any of the other name brand companies. (post, folgers, kellogs, etc.) People laugh at me because in some instances, I like the Walmart (Sam's Choice, Equate) brand better than the original name brand item.
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No, I did not say that Wal-Mart brands are not fit for human consumption... I said that I would not trust Wal-Mart food brands for myself. I wasn't saying this as a recommendation for others... just what I personally feel comfortable with. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I didn't even realize they had Wal-Mart brands for all those products, including human food... all I know about Wal-Mart is what I read in the business press and there is much talk about their obsession for profit to the point of squeezing their vendors, paying low wages, etc.

The Dilbert comic strip even parodied Wal-Mart a few days ago regarding the way they treat their vendors.... 

So, its great that this is a free country.... we all can shop where we want to


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

Hey Tlunn--We're in the same boat, girl







. I think in some instances, it's smarter to get the Walmart/equate/sam's brand. teehee. I like the Equate Plaque remover







. It's like a dollar less than Plax! You just gotta read the label. And, I think the idea of that Walmart and krogers and etc making their own products as well is extremely smart and logical. Just because it's cheap doesnt mean it sucks. It's cheap because they made it themselves and they sell it at their own store. Did that make sense at all?


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole+Dec 7 2004, 03:10 PM-->
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I guess you could never be on Fear Factor!








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Very true!!!!! I couldn't anyway b/c I am not skinny nor buff enough!!! They should have a "chunky" fear factor episode...call it the "not so perfect contestants" show!!!











> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Dec 7 2004, 03:15 PM
> *Hey Tlunn--We're in the same boat, girl
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


Made sense to me....


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole+Dec 7 2004, 03:10 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
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I guess you could never be on Fear Factor!








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You got that right!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kodie_@Dec 7 2004, 02:21 PM
> *ok... this is all good information and all.. but what is a person that has a dog on a special low protein diet supposed to do .... Hill's is the only brand i know that carries a liver diet type of dog food.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Your baby is on a Prescription diet for a particular reason ... not their regular food...... Stick with it....


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## Boom Boom's Mom (Jul 27, 2004)

My lil boy eats the sci diet natural food (which he's eaten since a pup) mixed with i think its purina moist and meaty

he seems to like the sci diet better than the moist an meaty. 

they dont have small bites in the natural food


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

A little something extra comes with Walmart brand pet food:

http://www.blueroseweb.com/walmart_winecap_in_cat_food.php

In 1995, Nature's Recipe pulled thousands of tons of dog food off the shelf after consumers complained that their dogs were vomiting and losing their appetite. Nature's Recipe's loss amounted to $20 million. The problem was a fungus that produced
vomitoxin (an aflatoxin or "mycotoxin," a toxic substance produced by mould) contaminating the wheat. In 1999, another fungal toxin triggered the recall of dry dog food made by Doane Pet Care at one of its plants, including Ol' Roy (Wal-Mart's
brand) and 53 other brands. This time, the toxin killed 25 dogs


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

reading all the posts in this thread gave me a headache...









too much information ~ haha


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Dec 7 2004, 03:49 PM
> *A little something extra comes with Walmart brand pet food:
> 
> http://www.blueroseweb.com/walmart_winecap_in_cat_food.php
> ...


[/QUOTE]


I don't feed mine Ol Roy-they eat the high priced walmart brand-  

Doane Pet Care factory is right down the street from my house...when the wind blows right, you can smell doggy kibble..


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

kodies mom we were told in school that for liver disease l/d is superior to waltham and iams. no other diet is as restricted in what is needed. please stay with what you are feeding.


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Dec 7 2004, 04:02 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't feed mine Ol Roy-they eat the high priced walmart brand-  

Doane Pet Care factory is right down the street from my house...when the wind blows right, you can smell doggy kibble..








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I have heard some bad stuff about Ol' Roy. My grandma told me that it can cause cancer in the dogs...and if it came from my grandma it MUST be true







. Just kidding, I dont know if it is true or not, but she did tell me she had heard or read that somewhere.


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Dec 7 2004, 01:27 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]

Are you saying Walmart brands are not fit for human consumption? My family and I LIVE on mostly Walmart brand food-most of it is JUST like the name brand stuff!!! My dermatologist even told me to use the Walmart brand Cetaphil soap! I see no problem with Walmart brand items. They have to list ingredients just like any name-brand company. Most of the time, the ingredients are close to or exactly the same as the name brand equivalent. Walmart fits my budget-and I am a Wal-Mart fan. I know members of the Sam Walton family-have babysat his grandkids in the past-they are a very loving, Christian family. I don't see them as any more profit oriented than any of the other name brand companies. (post, folgers, kellogs, etc.) People laugh at me because in some instances, I like the Walmart (Sam's Choice, Equate) brand better than the original name brand item.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=20980
[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes we are big Walmart fans right now too. My husband is supporting the both of us on a teacher salary at a small school, ( I work during my breaks from school, but have been lucky enough to have been able to quit working during school after my 2nd semester in the actual nursing program-2 years into college). I can't wait until May when I finally graduate and then we won't have to buy all the off brand stuff!







A lot of the stuff I really can't tell a difference in actually though. Also it is nice because you can get everything you need in one stop, boy do I sound like one of the lady's off of the commercial!


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

If your dog requires a prescription diet, Hill's is one of the best. They have worked a very long time and have the research to back up the effects of their prescription diets. The amount of ethoxyquin in their dry foods is tiny. The canned does not have it. 

Other brands of prescription diets that MAY be ok for a liver dog include:

IVD's Modified
Waltham/Royal Canin Hepatic formula (I believe this is dry only, but I'm not sure)
Hill's k/d

Home cooked is actually a good option for many liver dogs, but should not be done without veterinary supervision. Having a nutrition consult if you want to go this way would be a good idea. Dr. Center at Cornell has a Maltese diet specifically for dogs with MVD and/or IBD. It is tofu, cottage cheese, and rice based. If she worked on your dog's case, her office should be able to fax the recipe to your vet if she feels it would be appropriate for your dog. 

Brands other than Science Diet for commercially available foods do have higher quality ingredients, but every dog does not thrive on that. Many dogs do best on a middle-of-the-road food like ProPlan. Each dog is different. Check the ingredients, the company, and the nutritional information to see if the food looks appropriate for your dog. Then, do a food trial and see how it goes. If your dog likes Science Diet and his health, then don't fix what isn't broken. 

NEVER feed a raw diet to a dog with a compromised immune system.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Dec 7 2004, 05:25 PM
> *kodies mom we were told in school that for liver disease l/d is superior to waltham and iams.  no other diet is as restricted in what is needed.  please stay with what you are feeding.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=21058*


[/QUOTE]

Thanx u for the info.. i feel better now!










> _Originally posted by JMM_@Dec 7 2004, 06:22 PM
> *If your dog requires a prescription diet, Hill's is one of the best. They have worked a very long time and have the research to back up the effects of their prescription diets. The amount of ethoxyquin in their dry foods is tiny. The canned does not have it.
> 
> Other brands of prescription diets that MAY be ok for a liver dog include:
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Well Dr Center said it was not necessary to have Kodie on Hills but its my option. I feel that if he has toxics in his body i'm not going to make that worse by giving him lots of protein. 
I do not understand what a raw diet is.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

raw diet/ BARF diet bones and raw foods...its a homemade diet you dont cook, but you have to make sure you are giving your pup everything the pup needs. can be very dangerous.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Caesar's Mommie+Dec 7 2004, 06:11 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes we are big Walmart fans right now too. My husband is supporting the both of us on a teacher salary at a small school, ( I work during my breaks from school, but have been lucky enough to have been able to quit working during school after my 2nd semester in the actual nursing program-2 years into college). I can't wait until May when I finally graduate and then we won't have to buy all the off brand stuff!







A lot of the stuff I really can't tell a difference in actually though. Also it is nice because you can get everything you need in one stop, boy do I sound like one of the lady's off of the commercial! 
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One of the only things I have found that are OK-but just not as good as the real brand are the fruit and oatmeal breakfast bars. The name brand are MUCH more moist-the Walmart brand is ok for a dollar difference a box-I buy them anyway...but the others are better. I eat those for breakfast and an afternoon snack.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

i buy the off brand stuff too...like for tylenol etc i dotn buy name brands...its the same stuff just costs less.







i love walmart except for the crowds, so now me and the hubby go sun morn when everyone is at church! no lines then


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## Quincymom (Oct 17, 2004)

" Many dogs do best on a middle-of-the-road food like ProPlan. Each dog is different. "
JMM,
I had always been told that ProPlan, Purina, etc was not the best food for a dog, was told this by a few vets. What do you consider a "middle of the road" food? And why would they do better on one of these instead of a more premium brand of food with higher quality ingredients? Does it have any impact on their health to consistently feed a premium brand?
Thanks for the information-
Quincymom


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Dec 7 2004, 08:15 PM
> *i buy the off brand stuff too...like for tylenol etc i dotn buy name brands...its the same stuff just costs less.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Lol another good time to go is around 6:30 on a week night when everyone is at home eating supper. There aren't a lot of lines then either.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

i think its hilarious how this thread went from dog food to walmart...much better topic (walmart) doesnt light my fire! now i can study in peace know that the dog food debate has died


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

yeah its crazy...sometimes i dont read them going by the title then i see a lot of people have posted and they are talking about something totally off the wall. crazy stuff.


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

u guys are sooooo funny !!!!

hahahahah

thats why i love this site !!!


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Caesar's Mommie+Dec 7 2004, 08:39 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol another good time to go is around 6:30 on a week night when everyone is at home eating supper. There aren't a lot of lines then either.
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I went one time at 5AM on a Saturday. Lexi woke me up and I had to go there to get something. I thought what the heck I'm up so might as well bet the crowds. I think there were only 3 customers in the whole store. Got a lot of weird looks from employees.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Quincymom_@Dec 7 2004, 09:29 PM
> *" Many dogs do best on a middle-of-the-road food like ProPlan. Each dog is different. "
> JMM,
> I had always been told that ProPlan, Purina, etc was not the best food for a dog, was told this by a few vets.  What do you consider a "middle of the road" food? And why would they do better on one of these instead of a more premium brand of food with higher quality ingredients? Does it have any impact on their health to consistently feed a premium brand?
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't feed the grocery store Purina honestly. I like ProPlan and find it to be a food product. It does tend to put weight on if you're not careful. They have a small breed puppy and adult formula. Their adult chick/rice formula is one of my favorite. Most dogs really like it and do well on it. 

Each dog is different. I know a lot of people who tried to feed the super-premium brands and there dogs had soft stool, poor coats, didn't like the food, didn't maintain weight, etc. Some of those foods are very rich as well. 

ProPlan, maybe Eukanuba, Kirkland lamb/rice, some of the Diamond formulas, Regal...
I stay away from foods that are primarily corn based and like to see meat (meat meal) as the first ingredient. 

Many people rotate through a few foods. The important thing is to feed a balanced diet, maintain them at ideal weight (a lean dog is a health dog), and never abruptly change foods. It is personal preference.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Dec 8 2004, 10:28 AM
> *I stay away from foods that are primarily corn based and like to see meat (meat meal) as the first ingredient.
> 
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=21265*


[/QUOTE]

As Jackie says, make sure the food contains meat meal, not meat by-products.

Meat byproducts are the non-rendered, clean parts, other than meat, derived from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low temperature fatty tissue, and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth and hoofs.

Meat byproducts are not meat. They can include almost any part of the animal other than meat. Because any mammal can be used, cheaper meats like horse, pig, or goat are often included.


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