# Bad News Today Re: Tchelsi's Heart Murmur



## gibbert (Jan 13, 2005)

I'm really sorry this post is so long ...

As some of you may remember, Tchelsi was diagnosed with a heart murmur (a cardiologist also determined she has some enlargement of her heart) in October. If I recall correctly, she was diagnosed at a grade 1 heart murmur, which is the mildest, on a scale of 1-6. We have been watching her extremely closely since then, doing very frequent xrays and exams. I've been so grateful that, since Cherie works at an animal hospital, we can pretty much run whatever tests, as often as we want to, without significant expense. So, I will stress again, we have been ALL over this. Well, even with all this in place, we somehow missed something huge. Upon her exam today, she was deemed to have a *grade 5* murmur. Her primary doc was so surprised by the extreme jump, that she had another vet examine her as well ... grade 5. As a side note, based on her xrays, there has ben no further heart enlargement.

Tchelsi has been having some significant coughing again ... last night was her worst ever, as she coughed not only all night, but a lot and all night. I realize (just from my own experience with other people's dogs) that Tchelsi coughing "a lot" is nowhere near the amount of coughing experienced by other dogs I have known with heart problems and a cough. Cherie confirms this. Tchelsi *never* coughs after exercise, walks, playing, etc. She only coughs at night when she is still (never in the daytime when she's still) seemingly more on cold nights than not so cold. Oh yes ... and on bad nights, if we get up and feed her or get her mind on something else - the cough stops! WTH? Both vets today believe that Tchelsi's cough has nothing to do with her heart issues. Doc says there's no fluid in her lungs. Like the previous time her cough was considerable, they say she has bronchitis. 

But here's the thing ... if her cough has nothing to do with her heart, then she has NO symptoms from the heart murmur or heart "enlargement". From what I've read, if her murmur is a 5 out of 6, there *would* be some symptoms. No notable panting, she's fine on long walks, plays like a puppy, etc. Are there other signs I need to be looking for? And if the cough is heart-related, wouldn't we see it more than just at night while she's resting?

I'm wondering if we need to take her elsewhere for a 2nd (in this case it would actually be a 3rd) opinion .. regarding not only the grade of the murmur, but also the cause of her coughing. Cherie and I both are totally devastated by the prospect that her murmur could have worsened so significantly in such a short time. This makes me feel so helpless!

The vet sent us home with Enalapril for her murmur (2.5 mg SID for 2 weeks, then 2.5 mg BID), and a claritin type med for her cough, to be taken once a day.

Any advice from those in the know would be greatly appreciated. *Please* keep my precious girl in your thoughts. I love her with all my heart, and would be totally lost without her.


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## revakb2 (Sep 8, 2006)

Oh Heidi, I know nothing about Tchelsi's health issues, but I think you would feel better if you got another opinion. It is certainly what I would do with a human I cared about. Sending lots of good wishes for Tchelsi.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

So sorry about this. 


Prayers for you and Tchelsi.


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## lovesophie (Jan 28, 2008)

I, too, would opt for a third opinion. It's better to be safe. 

Poor Tchelsi girl. I hope you're able to get to the bottom of 

this. I will definitely keep that precious girl in my thoughts. :grouphug:


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

She needs to see a cardiologist for an echocardiogram. I wouldn't waste any more opinions with regular vets.


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## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

Hunter has a grade 3 murmur and is on the same dose of enalipril (sp.). He has been on this for almost a year and we will be going back in the summer most likely for a follow-up. Have you actually seen a dog cardiologist or someone who specializes in ultrasounds and ekgs for pets? This is who we go to for Hunter and it is a far superior test and analysis that our regular vet is able to do.

I pray that things get better for the little T - Hunter has a slight crush on her and wishes her good health!


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Hugs to sweet Tchelsi Ann, please keep us posted, Heidi. I think it certainly wouldn't hurt to get another opinion.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

QUOTE (JMM @ Apr 20 2009, 04:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=765356


> She needs to see a cardiologist for an echocardiogram. I wouldn't waste any more opinions with regular vets.[/B]



Praying for Tchelsi. 

That's what my Flakey had an echocardiogram ( I think it tells you how enlarged the heart is)....from there, they were able to perscribe what meds Flakey needed. He did very well, for many years on his med, and something to suppress his cough.

Sending good thoughts and hugs.


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## njdrake (Apr 23, 2007)

I hate so much that this may be getting worse. I think I'd do the third opinion too. I love your T's and I sure hope everything turns out alright for your girl Tchelsi.
Prayers and hugs for you both. Please keep us updated. 
:grouphug:


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## gibbert (Jan 13, 2005)

QUOTE (JMM @ Apr 20 2009, 04:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=765356


> She needs to see a cardiologist for an echocardiogram. I wouldn't waste any more opinions with regular vets.[/B]


Tchelsi has seen a cardiologist, who did an echocardiogram. She is the one who diagnosed the enlargening of the heart. We will make another appointment with her ... or possibly a different cardiologist, to have Tchelsi re-tested.


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## Missy&Maggie (Jun 17, 2007)

I would definitely get another opinion. It never hurts to get another opinion. Have you had an echocardiogram done on Tchelsi's heart? If not, I would look into it. I would go to a Veterinary Cardiologist if possible.

I'm not sure if you remember, Heidi, but when Maggie was a puppy she was diagnosed with a heart murmur. My Vet recommended I take Maggie to a Veterinary Cardiologist and he was going to look into getting me in with one that comes to our area every month. Me being who I am googled Veterinary Cardiologist in FL. I saw that there were 3 in Gainesville...so I called the University of Florida's Vet Clinic and made an appointment. My Vet graded Maggie's murmur at a 1-2 while the specialist graded it as a 4-5 (I think). So grading can vary and is very subjective. In Maggie's case a high grade is actually good.

I will include you and Sweet Tchelsi in my prayers!!!! rayer: :grouphug:


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

Please get another opinion. Worth every penny.

We went through the same thing with our first Maltese, Bogey.


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

I'm so sorry about Tchelsi's heart murmur. 

I think I'd also recommend getting her checked by a cardiologist. Cardiologists are a little better trained in interpreting the recordings of the diagnostic tests. Also, a cardiologist may be able to suggest a different treatment. Even if they don't find or recommend anything different than your regular Vet(s), sometimes it helps to know that a specialist confirms what your Vet. has told you. Also, you feel like you've done everything you possibly can for your pet's illness.

Here's a link to a canine/feline cardiology veterinary manual which may or may not be helpful. On page four it talks about the different types of coughs. There's a little bit about murmurs on page 21. This is just a book preview so the online link skips quite a bit of info.

Link to Manual of Canine and Feline Cardiology 





Joy


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I am so sorry to hear Tchelsi's murmur may have gotten worse. As the others have said, I think it's time to see a cardiologist or to take her to a vet school if you have one close.

It just breaks my heart to see sweet babies like Lady and Tchelsi have to suffer because they were bred by greeders. :crying: It gets so expensive to try to deal with all the genetic conditions these innocent victims have. I just dropped $122 at the vet a few hours ago for Lady's latest infection.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

I just wanted to say I'm sorry for the bad news, and I'm sure you will be taking the best care of your baby.


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## bonniesmom (Jun 2, 2008)

Oh, Heidi - I'm SO sorry to hear this, and know little about it except that Eloise had a Grade 1-2 and it never bothered her. But if I were you, I
would certainly take that precious little Tchelsi :wub: Ann to the best darn cardiologist in your area - I just did a quick Google search and came
up with two names, in case you haven't tried either of these: Dr. Darlene R. Blischok-Lapekas in Atlanta, and Dr. Gilbert Jean Jacobs in Athens.
Is there a major animal medical center in your area? I would think there must be, no? Good :Good luck: luck - I hope it's not as bad as you
think and that Miss T has many good years ahead of her! :grouphug:


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

QUOTE (JMM @ Apr 20 2009, 04:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=765356


> She needs to see a cardiologist for an echocardiogram. I wouldn't waste any more opinions with regular vets.[/B]


I second that opinion... :thumbsup: I'm always going to specialist with kodie. Keep us updated.. Tchelsi is in my prayers rayer:


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

If you go to a different cardio be sure to get complete records from the previous study so comparison can be done.


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

I'm so sorry you and Tchelsi are having to go through this.  

I can't offer any advice, but I want you to know that I'm thinking about you all. :grouphug:


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (bonniesmom @ Apr 20 2009, 06:15 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=765427


> Oh, Heidi - I'm SO sorry to hear this, and know little about it except that Eloise had a Grade 1-2 and it never bothered her. But if I were you, I
> would certainly take that precious little Tchelsi :wub: Ann to the best darn cardiologist in your area - I just did a quick Google search and came
> up with two names, in case you haven't tried either of these: Dr. Darlene R. Blischok-Lapekas in Atlanta, and Dr. Gilbert Jean Jacobs in Athens.
> Is there a major animal medical center in your area? I would think there must be, no? Good :Good luck: luck - I hope it's not as bad as you
> think and that Miss T has many good years ahead of her! :grouphug:[/B]



Heidi, We saw Dr. Blischok with Clouseau. We were very happy with her. Is she the one you have been to? We also met with Dr. Jacobs at one point early on. He was recomended by a friend with Cavs. 

I hope that the cardiologist can help you get to the bottom of things. This is very surprising and scary. 

Clouseau's coughing was heart related and was not after exercise either. His coughing was always worse when he woke up in the middle of the night. 

I swear Dr. Blischok worked miracles with him. So many times she rescued him from the edge of a cliff. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Heidi, I am heartbroken about Tchelsi, we all love that little girl. The coughing reminds me of my step-father who had congestive heart failure - he coughed. 

I pray that she's gonna be ok. rayer: Don't know what else to do. I know you're "on it" and always will be, so I won't bother you with my lack of knowledge.....

please keep us updated.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Get another opinion then rest easy in knowing that with the right medication it can usually be controlled for quite a while. My Samantha had a heart murmer the last four years of her life and did very well until about a month before she had to be put down. She died at 15 and had a long, happy life.

Hugs to you!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

i would def see a cardio for an echo..she may have ruptured a cordae (which are the cords that pull the valves) when a murmur jumps like that it is suspected. also has she had any seizures recently? i know a dog that will get a murmur when he has a seizure and then it goes away.


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## aprdh (Oct 21, 2007)

I will keep you, Cheri and little Tchelsi in my prayers. I hope it all turns out ok. :grouphug:


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

I am so sorry, I will keep your family and Tchelsi in my prayers.

Cathy and Ellie


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## phesty (May 30, 2006)

I don't have any advice, but I'll definitely be praying for Miss T and both her mommies. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: 

Tjosie says: Tchelsi, please please please get better soon. You're one of my favoritest net-buddies ever!


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## gibbert (Jan 13, 2005)

QUOTE (Dr.Jaimie @ Apr 20 2009, 07:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=765489


> i would def see a cardio for an echo..she may have ruptured a cordae (which are the cords that pull the valves) when a murmur jumps like that it is suspected. also has she had any seizures recently? i know a dog that will get a murmur when he has a seizure and then it goes away.[/B]


Talked with Cherie tonight - we are going to go back to the cardiologist.
Jaimie, Tchelsi has not had a seizure since November (that we know of). Before November she went a whole year without them.
Thanks so much for the info on the ruptured cordae ... we will look into this. Tchelsi's primary doctor didn't mention anything about it, so she may not know ... 

Tchelsi has no clue anything is up. :wub: She just wants her nightly chew stick. :heart:


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## beckinwolf (Sep 2, 2008)

I don't have any advice, just wanted to share my support of you and Tchelsi. Your pups are so cute. Micky's got his grade 3 and we also had the ultrasound done. I remember the cardio vet mentioning the cords that attach to the valves. It's amazing how complicated the heart is. I'll keep Tchelsi in my thoughts. :wub:


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## Harley & Dakotas Mum (Jun 11, 2005)

Hugs to you Heidi! I hope you can get to the bottom of this, and get your sweet girl on just the right course of meds! xxxx


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

I have no advice either, but wanted to tell you I'm thinking of you. :grouphug: :grouphug:


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## gigigirlz (Jun 18, 2007)

Really don't have any advice either...but hugs to your baby...hope it all works out for you guys....


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

agreed but saw you went to cardiologist is that so? My friend has a yorkie with bronchial and heart issues. Bronchials and heart and trachea can all go hand in hand. Her yorkie buffy has the attacks at night as well mostly. There have been times she runs her outside as the cool mist helps them breath. She has had to run her to vet to go in oxygen tank at night as well  she has her managed now with a cool mister that helps, keeps weight down and she is on bronchial meds, and heart meds. I can find out more or if you want she can talk to you as well as she has managed it now for years but the first few years were really tough. The allergies during this time of year can trigger the bronchials so she has more issues this time of year. We went to dinner friday night afer the pet expo and buffy had an attack when they got home as she got too excited as they were out and then with the pollens in air and heart and bronchials it was a rough night for her. She has been through a lot with buffy but now buffy is about 9 so she has lived a long good life with it - keeping the weight off is the hardest part 


QUOTE (JMM @ Apr 20 2009, 03:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=765356


> She needs to see a cardiologist for an echocardiogram. I wouldn't waste any more opinions with regular vets.[/B]


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## Moxie'smom (Dec 16, 2007)

My Moguls had a heart murmur for many years. I never got a second opinion. The only issue was that when we had to have his teeth cleaned..we had to get a sonogram first and be careful with the anesthesia. Of course I was always nervous before he went under. He was on medication for over 5 years. At the end it was the cancer that took him from me..not his heart. With meds he acted fine. Never an issue and he was 13. Until the day that he was diagnosed he acted like a puppy. never had to limit his exercise, he was always happy.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...mp;#entry765579

here is a thread i posted on heart disease


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

here below says coughing is most often at night for heart 


Cardiovascular Congestive Heart failure Subtle "half-hearted cough," most often at night - progressing to anytime, Cough may be moist and productive as disease progresses Thoracic radiographs, Heart auscultation, Electro-cardiogram, Blood chemistry profile, Blood parasite screen Surgery to correct leaky valve or other abnormalities, Medications to lower load on heart +/or increase the strength of the heartbeat Depends on the specific heart condition 

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=...96&aid=3537


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## KAG (Jun 1, 2006)

Prayers and good thoughts going your way for you and your little beauty.
xoxoxo


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

I really don't know what to say except that i will keep Tchelsi and your family in my prayers. :grouphug: rayer: :grouphug:


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## LitGal (May 15, 2007)

I wish I had some advice or information that could help little Tchelsi. Know that she's in my thoughts and I'm hoping for fabulous health for that little girl; I know that she's already very happy and fortunate to have you and Cherie.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

You know how much I adore your sweet Tchelsi. I'm so sorry to hear this. Please let us know what the cardiologist says. We're here to support you. Many prayers being said for all of you. :grouphug: 

From Jett to Tchelsi: Please feel better sweet Tchelsi. :smootch: :hugging:


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## mom2bijou (Oct 19, 2006)

OH gosh Heidi....I am so sorry to hear of Tchelsi's news. I think going to a cardiologist is a must and will give you so many needed answers. I've mentioned before that my Bijou had a heart murmur for many years and he lived a happy, comfortable life all the way to 14 years old. Please try to stay positive for sweet Tchelsi. Hugs and love to all of you! :grouphug:


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## Dixie's Mama (Mar 19, 2008)

Heidi I am so sorry to hear of Tchelsi's recent diagnosis. I would definitely get another opinion since it jumped up so fast. I wish I knew lots of information to give you but I don't. I just love Tchelsi and Tatumn. I will be praying for you all with special prayers for Tchelsi. Give that pretty girl kisses for me please. You will be in my thoughts. Please update us. I feel terrible for you and Cherie and, of course, Tchelsi. rayer: rayer: :grouphug: :grouphug:


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