# Itchy 9 month old puppy



## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Hello, (not sure if I'm the right thread)
My Sammie is 9 mo old and he itches and chews his feet at night mostly. He scratches his ears and then chews his paws. He shakes his head a too. His ears were standing up until 4 months old. I don't know if that matters or not. (took him to the Vet 2 times, *No infection, no mites, etc*.). His ears seem red to me. I want to treat as if allergy and see if that helps. *What is a good* *food with for a Itchy dog**.* The one I tried was Natural Balance Duck & Sweet Potato but he does not like it. So I put him back on the Ultra which does not have the "no grains" on front of bag. I am taking him to another vet for a 2nd opinion in tomm am. Not all vets are familiar with Maltese. Thanks!:smilie_tischkante:


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## Fluffy (Nov 13, 2010)

The head shaking sends red flags to me and I am glad you are seeking a second opinion!

I'm not really familiar with dog foods but I have had a dog with allergies. It turned out he was allergic to the carpet powder. If the itching is new, what else is new? Even small changes can cause an allergy to flare up. A change of laundry detergent, a new collar, new shampoo, basically anything new needs to be looked over with a fine tooth comb. Also, if he's playing a lot outside just double check what sort of plants are in the area. Even if he isn't digesting any harmful plants, just by touching them can causing itching/redness.


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

I cared for a dog earlier this year who was just one big itch! Chewed paws, butt, and had the added yeast in his years - scratched his ears, and shook his head A LOT!

I PM'd Dr. Jaimie about the condition and she told me find a food that was: chicken, beef, lamb, and grain free. I went to a doggy boutique - the personnel there were very knowledgeable. There were 3 foods that fit the bill. They gave me samples of each, instructed me to put them all out a the same time and see which one he ate the most, then buy that one. I recall two of the three brand names: Taste of the Wild Salmon, and NOW grain free. So if you have a boutique in your area try what I did.  There was a recall recently of the Taste of the Wild, but the company has corrected the issue.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Fluffy said:


> The head shaking sends red flags to me and I am glad you are seeking a second opinion!
> 
> I'm not really familiar with dog foods but I have had a dog with allergies. It turned out he was allergic to the carpet powder. If the itching is new, what else is new? Even small changes can cause an allergy to flare up. A change of laundry detergent, a new collar, new shampoo, basically anything new needs to be looked over with a fine tooth comb. Also, if he's playing a lot outside just double check what sort of plants are in the area. Even if he isn't digesting any harmful plants, just by touching them can causing itching/redness.



I agree. Inhaled/environmental allergies are far more common than food allergies, especially in a puppy.

I'd investigate something in the environment first. Do you use perfume & dye free laundry detergent for his bedding? What shampoo are you using? Do you use carpet powder or chemicals on hard floors? Sometimes dogs can even be allergic to the fibers in carpeting or grasses outside.

Head shaking and ear scratching sounds like he could have an ear infection or ear mites. Has your vet ever cultured his ear?


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

thanks for the reply. he is not going out anymore. no new shampoo. puppy shampoo. uses wee pads on porch. how do you find out what he is allergic to? this is what vet said he thought, but he also said he was young to have it, so may disappear. 
Dogs with Atopy lick and chew at their paws. i will talk to new vet tommorow. could be my powder or anything. he is an older vet i used yrs ago, and retired. i looked him up and he is in on sat's.


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## munchkn8835 (May 23, 2010)

Ollie is constantly chewing on his feet and backside. I know he doesn't have worms, but we think he might have an allergy. Right now he is benadryl and hopefully it will stop. He eats Acana. They have three flavors and he is on Salmon now...won't be getting Salmon again b/c it is causing red stains. He ate another brand flavored Salmon and did the same thing! Even though there are no dyes in either one. Did the itching stop with Taste of the Wild?


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

I agree. it's in the air. Vet said it's something he is inhaling. prob not food. he gave me some ear cream and it seems to help. but I dont like giving him stuff so young. i read label and could make him deaf. ??? I think its inhaled. his bedding is a fleece blanket tucked inside a pillow case. but he has 2 little fleece blankets. I have wood floors I spray when mopping. I dont use carpet powder. I use powder in bathroom. I use wipes on floors when he makes mistake. hummmmmm. what else? he is laying at my feet chewing feet. cant do anything about carpet. It is the ears, thats where I will find the answer I think. I went on web and said it is APOTHY. breathing in something. BUT WHAT? THANKS GUYS! I been living with this for a while. so glad I found SM.


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## Fluffy (Nov 13, 2010)

Unfortunately finding what is causing the allergy is the most tiring job in the world. It took my family and I nearly a year to figure it out.
You mentioned wee pads, are they scented wee pads? 
I have found that items with perfumes and fragrances are a leading culprit with allergies.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Also, my groomer cleans hair out every 4 weeks. I dont let her use powder for now.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Fluffy said:


> Unfortunately finding what is causing the allergy is the most tiring job in the world. It took my family and I nearly a year to figure it out.
> You mentioned wee pads, are they scented wee pads?
> I have found that items with perfumes and fragrances are a leading culprit with allergies.


I will check on scent on wee pads, i dont think so. wish they were....lol. just kidding. it's me using powder. i am gonna stop and see. what did u find it to be, if u said forgive me? i use room spray, ?? i will stop that too. look at that face, I just hate it when he does it to his ear........what about those plug in room things?


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Starsmom said:


> I cared for a dog earlier this year who was just one big itch! Chewed paws, butt, and had the added yeast in his years - scratched his ears, and shook his head A LOT!
> 
> thanks, i will check on yeast ? in ears. Vet did not say that, he checked them twice. said were great.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

to all u here, a great big thanks


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

sounds like what Chloe used to do and she is allergic to all poultry not just chicken or turkey.


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

I hope that you figure this out soon for the little guy. Allergies aren't much fun. 






Experience the MAGIC


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Your Pups are all so sweet. Yes, I hope so too. He is not in misery or anything. Only does it when he is resting for a while. he itches his body a lot of when not active. and it is seems to come and go. his ear is much better than before the cream. I went and put the fleece bed in garage and gave him a plain bed pillow and pillow case, he so small thats fine. I just know its something he is breathing. But I will check into what Vet said about eliminating foods till we get it right. He wanted to wait cause he said not normally food, but something he is breathing in. OK, but what? So he said, he would wait a while and we'll see if it goes away. He is still young. I wonder if the natural balance being a puppy to adult food is too strong for him. Hope he is not allergic to his Mommy! lol.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

mysugarbears said:


> sounds like what Chloe used to do and she is allergic to all poultry not just chicken or turkey.


Mysugar,
How did you find out and did she just stop scratching ear/feet chewing? what food is chloe on now.?


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

I FORGOT how often do you bath your puppy. ???


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

4EVERAPUP said:


> I FORGOT how often do you bath your puppy. ???


Most everyone bathes every 7 to 10 days. I gave Star his bath every 7.

You have to remember these fluffs are very close to the floor surface. So what lingers at our feet, goes in their tiny lungs. If the plug-in air fresheners are in the wall outlet they are close to the floor. White vinegar and water is the best for the fluffs to mop floors with. If for some reason you need to use something stronger, you need to go over it with clear water, then again with vinegar/water solution. 

Hope you find out what's itching him soon.


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## Fluffy (Nov 13, 2010)

Water and vinegar is a life saver for floors, I will also add some Dawn dish soap every once in awhile for anything that needs an extra scrub.
Mops and sprays can be very dangerous, I can still remember using a Swiffer Wetjet until it started to cause Liver problems in the dogs!
While the allergies are up in arms, try vacuuming once a day (if you don't already) without using any powders. Vacuuming might pick up any pollen/dust mites/etc that may be causing irritation to the feet.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Wonderful advice. I'm off to the vet for a. $45 2nd opinion. thanks.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

4EVERAPUP said:


> I will check on scent on wee pads, i dont think so. wish they were....lol. just kidding. it's me using powder. i am gonna stop and see. what did u find it to be, if u said forgive me? i use room spray, ?? i will stop that too. look at that face, I just hate it when he does it to his ear.......*.what about those plug in room things?*


I would not use those room plug ins.... the stuff in there is usually cheap junk and you'd both be better off not breathing it. 

I hope you find the answer soon!!!


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

*Back from 2nd opinion from my old Vet.* Sammie had a little physical and he said he would take him to a dermatology vet in another town he recommends for testing (later) but wait till over 1 year old unless he gets worse in mean time. He said you can change his food, but prob not the food. His ears are all normal. He said remove obvious things as we all mentioned (sprays/vacuum often/powder) and get his baby teeth out on 11/23 as planned. He said he may or may not have a slight heart murmur, but Sam was wiggling so much he will recheck it again later. And to watch for lethargic signs. But he may not have it. He said you can do it now, but he would wait a while to do complete blood work for Liver shunt (his brother died from it) or taking him to the derma vet. He would wait till he is over 1 yr because he is not having any other troubles but the itching and it's not constant and no sores. said he would wait till 14 months rather than now (unless he has more issues). He said he could clear up like that or get worse over yrs, but the tests will show you what he allergic to if I can't find it on my own. He said if your going to start changing food at his young age, just go ahead and get derma vet testing and save yourself all the trouble. So I will remove his little teeth this week at his current vet. remove all stuff in air I can think of. I will take him to derma vet after a month if not better. That's the plan now. I like my old vet better. It's cause I feel like I know him better, not the other Vet.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Since Sammie's brother died from a liver shunt, why is your vet advising you to wait until he is a year old to do bloodwork to see if he has one? Puppies can have a bile acids test once they reach 16 weeks old.

Perhaps he is not familiar with the bile acid tests protocol? The most up to date version from its developer, Dr. Sharon Center, can be found on the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America website. I'd suggest printing off a copy for him.

http://www.ytca.org/health_biletestproced.doc-1.pdf

If he were mine, I would not want him to go under anestheisa to get his baby teeth removed before having a BAT done.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

The first Vet did not even suggest one. but this one did right off, first thing he asked about when I said bro died. I know he would do if I asked him to. I will get teeth out and then take him back and tell him I want to do it now. He said with his health he wait till he is little older. ??? and if test is possitive, he would send him to another town for ultra sound. and take from there. 

This is what he thinks he has with ears/feet. Atopic Dermatitis. This situation is triggered by a number of antigens including inhaled substances. Says Florida has more than most states.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

thanks, i will read that. he may not be. who knows. seemed to be though. he did say he sees in one pup and not siblings. common.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Since Sammie's brother died from a liver shunt, why is your vet advising you to wait until he is a year old to do bloodwork to see if he has one? Puppies can have a bile acids test once they reach 16 weeks old.
> 
> Perhaps he is not familiar with the bile acid tests protocol? The most up to date version from its developer, Dr. Sharon Center, can be found on the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America website. I'd suggest printing off a copy for him.
> 
> ...


why not remove teeth with out BAT first? he was neutered and did fine? just wondered.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Since Sammie's brother died from a liver shunt, why is your vet advising you to wait until he is a year old to do bloodwork to see if he has one? Puppies can have a bile acids test once they reach 16 weeks old.
> 
> Perhaps he is not familiar with the bile acid tests protocol? The most up to date version from its developer, Dr. Sharon Center, can be found on the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America website. I'd suggest printing off a copy for him.
> 
> ...


i printed it for him.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

4EVERAPUP said:


> The first Vet did not even suggest one. but this one did right off, first thing he asked about when I said bro died. I know he would do if I asked him to. I will get teeth out and then take him back and tell him I want to do it now. He said with his health he wait till he is little older. ??? and if test is possitive, he would send him to another town for ultra sound. and take from there.
> 
> This is what he thinks he has with ears/feet. Atopic Dermatitis. This situation is triggered by a number of antigens including inhaled substances. Says Florida has more than most states.


Since anesthesia is filtered through the liver, it is very important to determine if he has a healthy liver before he gets his teeth removed.

Again, once a puppy reached 16 weeks old, his liver is developed enough to have a bile acids test.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

ok, thanks ladysmom, I am so in love with him, I want to do what's right. What do I tell the vet, that I want a ? blood test, not the whole shunt shabang before his surgery. would he have had trouble with his neuter if liver was compromised?


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> Hello, (not sure if I'm the right thread)
> My Sammie is 9 mo old and he itches and chews his feet at night mostly. He scratches his ears and then chews his paws. He shakes his head a too. His ears were standing up until 4 months old. I don't know if that matters or not. (took him to the Vet 2 times, *No infection, no mites, etc*.). His ears seem red to me. I want to treat as if allergy and see if that helps. *What is a good* *food with for a Itchy dog**.* The one I tried was Natural Balance Duck & Sweet Potato but he does not like it. So I put him back on the Ultra which does not have the "no grains" on front of bag. I am taking him to another vet for a 2nd opinion in tomm am. Not all vets are familiar with Maltese. Thanks!:smilie_tischkante:


it is the protein they are usually allergic to and chicken is the biggest culprit so doesn't ultra have chicken in it?

I have an allergy dog and allergies start from 6 mos to 3 years. Usually after vaccinations so just a heads up there is a link there. 

Hopefully it is just food related only and you get off easy but many times it is food and environmental. 

I would recommend do a food trial and if you can home cook all the better but if not do a food that has one protein and one carb for 12 weeks - NO TREATS or chews etc. Just the food and use the food as a treat as that is what we do still and they think it is a treat and get just as excited. 

I will read the whole thread but this is from just first post. 

The biggest mistake we made was jumping around from food to food and not giving it 12 weeks for other food to get out of system then we ran out of proteins when we got to the dermatologist to do a real food trial 

sounds like food allergy to me as ears usually are a good sign of it


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

I posted a question in the bile test thread, I was not sure you were still here. I dont know what to ask for exactly. Why would the Vet not recommend a liver test on a maltese....prior to surjery?...I just don't get it? all these post about it and my Vet does not even bring it up.......this is so frustrating to a new owner. pay them good $ and they don't know. neither vet did. 2nd one said to get it, but later......ugggggg


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> thanks for the reply. he is not going out anymore. no new shampoo. puppy shampoo. uses wee pads on porch. how do you find out what he is allergic to? this is what vet said he thought, but he also said he was young to have it, so may disappear.
> Dogs with Atopy lick and chew at their paws. i will talk to new vet tommorow. could be my powder or anything. he is an older vet i used yrs ago, and retired. i looked him up and he is in on sat's.


it is not too young to have environmental allergies they start at 6 mos and that is exactly when dee dee started with all her issues. 

Shampoo in hypoallergenic shampoo as they can be allergic to oatmeal as it is a grain.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

munchkn8835 said:


> Ollie is constantly chewing on his feet and backside. I know he doesn't have worms, but we think he might have an allergy. Right now he is benadryl and hopefully it will stop. He eats Acana. They have three flavors and he is on Salmon now...won't be getting Salmon again b/c it is causing red stains. He ate another brand flavored Salmon and did the same thing! Even though there are no dyes in either one. Did the itching stop with Taste of the Wild?


Interesting you posted this as I switched demi to cod on her food and she got the same red stains and never had them before. Her paws are pink, mouth pink and eye stains. I switched her back to chicken as she does not have allergies and it is getting better. She also started having seizure episodes really close together as close as a week apart while on wild cod which freaked me out. Since back on fish we are 5 weeks this monday with no seizure. I bought wild cod also so not sure if mercury would cause all this as have no clue but it was bizarre and it was the only change I did for her that she had never had before.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> I agree. it's in the air. Vet said it's something he is inhaling. prob not food. he gave me some ear cream and it seems to help. but I dont like giving him stuff so young. i read label and could make him deaf. ??? I think its inhaled. his bedding is a fleece blanket tucked inside a pillow case. but he has 2 little fleece blankets. I have wood floors I spray when mopping. I dont use carpet powder. I use powder in bathroom. I use wipes on floors when he makes mistake. hummmmmm. what else? he is laying at my feet chewing feet. cant do anything about carpet. It is the ears, thats where I will find the answer I think. I went on web and said it is APOTHY. breathing in something. BUT WHAT? THANKS GUYS! I been living with this for a while. so glad I found SM.


my dd is more environmental and she does not have ear issues. Dogs with ear issues it is usually food related allergy. 

The first step a dermatologist does is food elimination diet as you have to rule that out first as that is the easiest fix 

No air fresheners, no carpet cleaners, use vinegar and water on hardwood floor or laminate and get a steam mop for tile floors. Perfume and dye free detergent for washing bedding is important. Keeping dust down as well is key as many are allergic to dust mites. We have a roomba that helps alot to pick up dust as we just turn it on and let it go from room to room on its own daily. 

Before going to antihistamines, steroids, atopica, etc best to rule out food allergy


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

Fluffy said:


> Unfortunately finding what is causing the allergy is the most tiring job in the world. It took my family and I nearly a year to figure it out.
> You mentioned wee pads, are they scented wee pads?
> I have found that items with perfumes and fragrances are a leading culprit with allergies.


yep that can be also and we have been dealing with this for years  and there is no real cure for allergies you just have to keep them comfortable unless food and it can be eliminated. 

Washable wee wee pads is what we use to avoid the scents


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> it is the protein they are usually allergic to and chicken is the biggest culprit so doesn't ultra have chicken in it?
> 
> I have an allergy dog and allergies start from 6 mos to 3 years. Usually after vaccinations so just a heads up there is a link there.
> 
> ...


Thanks great post. (he is crawling over me now trying to get me to stop typing and play) Sorry did not understand your mistake part? should I do the below? or just take him to derma vet?

I will start with Lamb only. Does he still need a puppy food? (9 mo) I had him on other big seller first, I will go to that Lamb one. They have a new hypo allergy lamb one I almost tried. I have to ease him over for week I heard, right? The Balance does not have a lot to pick from and I think it is too rich anyway. I will stop at one he stops itching ears/feet. 
Here is what he eats and treat is same type: (Ultra: Fresh Chicken, Brown Rice, Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Pearled Barley, Salmon meal, Fresh Potatoes, Fresh Carrots) (not a grain free). I am off to Pet Store. Thanks so much. He get baby teeth out 11/23 and I almost want to wait till over to start. But now I read he should have blood work first for liver. He was neutered and did fine. where all the good vets?


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> Also, my groomer cleans hair out every 4 weeks. I dont let her use powder for now.


you will receive difference of opinion on this topic but from what i have seen with mine the only time mine had an ear infection was when the groomer plucked the ears so I never have mine plucked and have not had an infection in my 3 now 4 for 5 years so I am not a fan of it. 

It was so obvious as one time i stopped the groomer after she did one ear and she did not do the other ear and the one ear she did got an ear infection. This is when i stopped - It could be a groomer not doing it right who knows but she has groomed for 20 years. My vet told me never to have them plucked as it opens the pores and allows them to get infected. If your dog's ears started bothering after plucking it could very well be an ear infection as dex would shake his ears and paw at them and rub on the floor and he does not have allergies. DD has never had an ear infection and she has horrible allergies and is 6 1/2 now


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> Starsmom said:
> 
> 
> > I cared for a dog earlier this year who was just one big itch! Chewed paws, butt, and had the added yeast in his years - scratched his ears, and shook his head A LOT!
> ...


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

mysugarbears said:


> sounds like what Chloe used to do and she is allergic to all poultry not just chicken or turkey.


yes derm told me when we did elimination diet since dd had chicken before we could not use poultry since in same family she could be allergic to eggs and turkey as well 

we had to go with pinto beans and potato as we tried too many proteins prior


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> I FORGOT how often do you bath your puppy. ???


allergy dogs should be bathed every week in a mild shampoo to keep dust and pollens off them- sometimes even with distilled water as tap water can have a lot of junk in it


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Sammie and I will get to the bottom of his head shaking and chewing feet at night. I will start with a LAMB food. Like he was on before I switched to this one. Vet did say could be 2 things, not just food. Since his brother had shunt and died, I am paranoid. But we will get that testing too. Now, not at 14 months like vet said.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> *Back from 2nd opinion from my old Vet.* Sammie had a little physical and he said he would take him to a dermatology vet in another town he recommends for testing (later) but wait till over 1 year old unless he gets worse in mean time. He said you can change his food, but prob not the food. His ears are all normal. He said remove obvious things as we all mentioned (sprays/vacuum often/powder) and get his baby teeth out on 11/23 as planned. He said he may or may not have a slight heart murmur, but Sam was wiggling so much he will recheck it again later. And to watch for lethargic signs. But he may not have it. He said you can do it now, but he would wait a while to do complete blood work for Liver shunt (his brother died from it) or taking him to the derma vet. He would wait till he is over 1 yr because he is not having any other troubles but the itching and it's not constant and no sores. said he would wait till 14 months rather than now (unless he has more issues). He said he could clear up like that or get worse over yrs, but the tests will show you what he allergic to if I can't find it on my own. He said if your going to start changing food at his young age, just go ahead and get derma vet testing and save yourself all the trouble. So I will remove his little teeth this week at his current vet. remove all stuff in air I can think of. I will take him to derma vet after a month if not better. That's the plan now. I like my old vet better. It's cause I feel like I know him better, not the other Vet.


I like this vet as he is telling you to get to a dermatologist and that is key with a dog with allergies and was the best thing we ever did as they only deal with skin and ear issues and specialize in it.

The one thing we did not do is hyposensitization shots. I wish I had tried it as we did everything else. It takes a year and only works in 75% of the dogs because they can only get so many things in a vile. If they do not get the top 15 things your dog is allergic to that is in your immediate area then it will not work. The derm will give you a list of things and then you check your area for all those things and tell them what is most prevalent to your area then they work it up for you. They can do 2 or 3 viles - they do not tell you about the 3rd as it is more watered down as I asked if this could be more diluted as did not want dd to get worse as we still contemplate this yearly with her but I have heard from some it makes them worse which scared me but it is the most natural thing and better than drugs and why sometimes I regret not doing it when she was a puppy. 

They can skin test or blood test. Skin test is more accurate but our derm does not like to do skin test on toy breeds as they are so small and she has to shave both sides of the dog and it is too much for their little systems she feels. She feels VARL, HESKA, AND GREER labs are really accurate with blood testing now so that is what she recommends 

I would definitely do a very good food elimination diet for 12 weeks before going down this path though. Food allergy is usually only 10% of the time but if you are in the 10% then you do not want to go through all this and drugs if it was an easy fix of food. The best way is to cook one protein and one carb for 12 weeks but being a puppy that is tough as you can give a multivitamin as well but I did not want anything affecting dd when i did it so i only did one protein and one carb as I did not think 12 weeks of eating this would hurt her and it didn't but it really did not help much so that is when we knew it was clearly environmental BUT dogs with environmental allergies still need to be on a limited ingredient diet as the less in their system the better. Home cooking is ideal for allergies as well if you can do it and do it balanced as kibble has dust mites in it and all allergy dogs seem to be allergic to dust mites.

There is a group on yahoogroups.com that I have been on for years and really like it. Lately not as active as working alot but they are very knowledgeable as all of them have dealt with this for years as well so go to above and type in ALLERDOG and join. You will get alot of info there as well.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

4EVERAPUP said:


> I posted a question in the bile test thread, I was not sure you were still here. I dont know what to ask for exactly. Why would the Vet not recommend a liver test on a maltese....prior to surjery?...I just don't get it? all these post about it and my Vet does not even bring it up.......this is so frustrating to a new owner. pay them good $ and they don't know. neither vet did. 2nd one said to get it, but later......ugggggg


Some vets just aren't that familiar with liver disease and aren't up to date on the current protocol for diagnosing and treating it.

Since Sammie's littermate died from a shunt, Sammie should have been tested months ago.

A bile acids tests is a simple and inexpensive test. According to Dr. Center, all Maltese should have one.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Thank you for your time and kind advice. Much appreciated. by Sammie Boy too. I will read it all again later as I have to get to the store.....


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

Ladysmom said:


> Since Sammie's brother died from a liver shunt, why is your vet advising you to wait until he is a year old to do bloodwork to see if he has one? Puppies can have a bile acids test once they reach 16 weeks old.
> 
> Perhaps he is not familiar with the bile acid tests protocol? The most up to date version from its developer, Dr. Sharon Center, can be found on the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America website. I'd suggest printing off a copy for him.
> 
> ...


I 100% agree as dd also has mvd. If the liver is not functioning properly it will affect the skin as the skin is the third kidney in the body and the body will detox out of the skin if it cannot cleanse internally properly. 

Just so you are aware my dd has hypothyroid which affects the skin, mvd which affects the skin, and atopic dermatitis. When you do blood work ask for thyroid add on and bats pre and post. I do all blood work FASTING so you know exactly what is going without food changing it so i schedule first thing in am and the post bile acid will be done 2 hrs after feeding but initial blood draw I would have done fasted. The blood test we do for ours as it covers thyroid and everything else but bats is SA100 AKA D1 by antech so you can ask your vet about it as Dr Dodds told me this is the one to get if i have vet do blood work and it covers everything. The bats is an add on and I would have everything checked prior to going under anesthesia. 

My Lucy blood work came back low for thyroid and her temp at visit was 98.5 which is low. The tech apparently did temp wrong as it was normal when we went back. They sent out to michican state panel for her and she was fine but dentist would not put her under until he knew her thyroid was ok as it affects the temperature of the body and that is important when going under anesthesia. The thyroid is the bodies thermometer among other things.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Some vets just aren't that familiar with liver disease and aren't up to date on the current protocol for diagnosing and treating it.
> 
> Since Sammie's littermate died from a shunt, Sammie should have been tested months ago.
> 
> A bile acids tests is a simple and inexpensive test. According to Dr. Center, all Maltese should have one.


So he gets the Bile Acid test, then that determines if MORE testing is needed. Does it tell if he has shunt or is another test needed for that. Vet mentioned an ultra sound if he fails blood tests. but said the tests are tricky. I am going back to the younger vet who found his bro's shunt I think. He knew more about it. He will do the testing. I will call monday about his teeth and blood work. How long does the test take?


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> The first Vet did not even suggest one. but this one did right off, first thing he asked about when I said bro died. I know he would do if I asked him to. I will get teeth out and then take him back and tell him I want to do it now. He said with his health he wait till he is little older. ??? and if test is possitive, he would send him to another town for ultra sound. and take from there.
> 
> This is what he thinks he has with ears/feet. Atopic Dermatitis. This situation is triggered by a number of antigens including inhaled substances. Says Florida has more than most states.


florida and california where we live are warm climates so we do not have snow in winter to see if environmental or not during that time. We bloom all year long so we have more issues with environmental allergies as it is all year long. 

If your first vet did not mention bats in a maltese breed and second did then the second is a little more up to date and current on breed and is asking the right questions. Not all vets are familiar with liver shunt. I had been to a few and no one mentioned it in dd. One did and it was prior to her going on atopica drug we had bats done and she was high on 3 bat tests but with low protein diet she is almost normal now just a little high. She never had high alt on any blood test. 

If a dog is going to be on long term drug therapy which sadly some allergy dogs are then having the liver tested with bats especially in yorkie and maltese breed it is real important as most if not all drugs affect the liver.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> why not remove teeth with out BAT first? he was neutered and did fine? just wondered.


so why when neutered did he not remove the baby teeth ? They removed my dex baby teeth when neutered at 6 mos and he had 10 removed and dd when she was spay at 8 mos and she had 1 removed. Why put a toy breed under twice in the first year 

If he did fine the first time odds are he will do fine but I still would have bats done. If they do skin testing they do sedate also  

Yes there is no genetic marker and one dog in a litter can have LS and the others be fine. They still do not know what is causing LS but are working on trying to find out the cause.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Some vets just aren't that familiar with liver disease and aren't up to date on the current protocol for diagnosing and treating it.
> 
> Since Sammie's littermate died from a shunt, Sammie should have been tested months ago.
> 
> A bile acids tests is a simple and inexpensive test. According to Dr. Center, all Maltese should have one.


Sammie wanted to say Hi! :smootch:Here he is today 11/20/10. Happy Boy! Gosh I hope he don't have that shunt. I hope his pic shows up. I am new at this.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> ok, thanks ladysmom, I am so in love with him, I want to do what's right. What do I tell the vet, that I want a ? blood test, not the whole shunt shabang before his surgery. would he have had trouble with his neuter if liver was compromised?


usually a liver shunt dog will have seizures, head pressing, act wierd after eating, lethargic, drool, space out after eating. You usually know within the first year if a dog has a liver shunt. 

It is MVD that is harder to detect as many like my dd act normal and you never really know but it is important to know for medications etc. DD had dental and did fine and had spay and did fine. Usually with mvd all you have to do is low protein diet and if you want added protection of liver then milk thistle and sam-e. I do not use those just low protein as her allergies are her biggest issue and anyting going in her body could affect her allergies so i do minimal as possible. 

Most vets use isoflurine, propofol, iv fluids and catheterization when sedating a dog now. Just ask your vet if this is done and it should be ok. Ket-val is the one (ketamine) that you have to be careful with in dogs prone to seizures as it can trigger seizures so I would just make sure this is not used.

I hope i did not overload you but I have been on the journey it sounds like you might be going on so hopefully it will help


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

4EVERAPUP said:


> Sammie wanted to say Hi! :smootch:Here he is today 11/20/10. Happy Boy! Gosh I hope he don't have that shunt. I hope his pic shows up. I am new at this.


Sammy is darling! Sammie looks like healthy and happy boy so most likely he is just fine. Since his brother died from a shunt, I'm sure you aware of the symptoms. Still, he needs to be checked just to be safe.

If his bile acids test is normal, you can just relax. No need for further testing. If it isn't, a referral to a specialist is a good idea. Ultrasounds can be only 60% reliable for detecting a shunt, especially on small dogs. You don't want to waste money on inconclusive tests that a specialist would just repeat anyway.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> so why when neutered did he not remove the baby teeth ? They removed my dex baby teeth when neutered at 6 mos and he had 10 removed and dd when she was spay at 8 mos and she had 1 removed. Why put a toy breed under twice in the first year
> 
> If he did fine the first time odds are he will do fine but I still would have bats done. If they do skin testing they do sedate also
> 
> Yes there is no genetic marker and one dog in a litter can have LS and the others be fine. They still do not know what is causing LS but are working on trying to find out the cause.


your test info is great! i do not know why he did not pull them then. . he pulled the brothers teeth with neuter. I guess if he fails BAT they would alter the anesthesia; cause he needs teeth out for sure. I will get the BAT scheduled. And start him on lamb. WHAT IS MVD?


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Sammy is darling! Sammie looks like healthy and happy boy so most likely he is just fine. Since his brother died from a shunt, I'm sure you aware of the symptoms. Still, he needs to be checked just to be safe.
> 
> If his bile acids test is normal, you can just relax. No need for further testing. If it isn't, a referral to a specialist is a good idea. Ultrasounds can be only 60% reliable for detecting a shunt, especially on small dogs. You don't want to waste money on inconclusive tests that a specialist would just repeat anyway.


OK, I am getting it now. I do the BAT, then I go to specialist if needed, skip the ultra sound. What is MVD? I think I will call Vet and go in and tell him I want to cancel teeth and have BAT now, then reschedule teeth. Both said do teeth now. Was a quick surgery. Vet said usually would have signs by now and he is even on a rich food and that is a good sign he does not have a shunt.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

I hope i did not overload you but I have been on the journey it sounds like you might be going on so hopefully it will help [/QUOTE]

no you did great. thanks. i copied the iv stuff down. the vet thinks i'm a worry wart i know. even made a joke, you have not been in in 2 months, it is a record. so i dont want to call and cx teeth, i just want to schedule the BAT. his brother had most of symptoms u said. he was always small, weird hair and such. then he got bad fast and we put him down. we did not know jack about BAT or anything. now i'm paranoid with sammie. vet says he is fine and relax. and he said get those teeth out.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

here is info on mvd 

MVD

better to be over cautious IMO as they are so small. I try not to worry if it bothers the vet asking questions etc and why I like these groups as vets are busy as well as specialists so i gather info and then go over with them as i take it in all written down. The ones i work with respect that and are impressed with a pet owner who is knowledgeable and cares for their pet. The ones that are bothered with it are not ones I would want to work with anyway and is usually a sign


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> here is info on mvd
> 
> MVD
> 
> better to be over cautious IMO as they are so small. I try not to worry if it bothers the vet asking questions etc and why I like these groups as vets are busy as well as specialists so i gather info and then go over with them as i take it in all written down. The ones i work with respect that and are impressed with a pet owner who is knowledgeable and cares for their pet. The ones that are intimidated and insecure about it are not ones I would want to work with anyway and is usually a sign


your babies are adorable all together:wub:....


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

DEWERTEN
where did you get your malt, is it DD? she is a doll. Sam came from a local BYB I guess, local breeder that over mates i feel.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> DEWERTEN
> where did you get your malt, is it DD? she is a doll. Sam came from a local BYB I guess, local breeder that over mates i feel.


Dee Dee is my york and she is from BYB  she has all the issues. Demi is my maltese and she is from a rescue  I got her on petfinder.com 

Thanks so much for the compliment. I just love these little guys so much and why I try to learn as much as I can to give them the best care and try to help others along the way as I know how frustrating it is when they cannot talk and cannot tell you what is wrong so you have to try to figure it out with the help of the vet. I feel it is a team effort when a dog has health issues. You are with the dog 24/7 - you need to take good notes, videos, pics whatever it takes to help the vet narrow it down as quickly as possible. They need all the info to try to figure it out. Diagnosing is the toughest part so the most info the pet owner can give upfront the better. These groups help alot as many of us have been through things and can take the time to help try to help giving you ideas then you take that info and consult with the vet or specialist and have them start narrowing it down through testing. 

Vets deal with many different breeds but owners of pets of a breed sometimes know what runs in that breed and can be very helpful.

We are very lucky on this group to have JMM and Dr Jaimie as most groups do not have professionals on them to help answer questions.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Did Sammie's brother have problems with his neuter? Is that when his shunt was discovered?


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

I may be wrong here, but you may want to reconsider feeding lamb. Lamb is naturally a fatty meat, and might cause tummy issues.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Did Sammie's brother have problems with his neuter? Is that when his shunt was discovered?


YES he did ok with surgery, then he tried to tear out stitches and was a total wreck. Then went from one thing to the next till we put him down. Vet said he was bad. He never gained over 3 lb and was bones. vet did not pick up on his shunt though and did the neuter....???? dumb in my opinion. i took 2 of them and u could see the difference in them. brother had heavy tear staining too. looked like an old man. sammie was fat and happy. but kirby would play and try to be normal ...we knew NOTHING but was we were told, so....was horrible. :angry:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

We are very lucky on this group to have JMM and Dr Jaimie as most groups do not have professionals on them to help answer questions.[/QUOTE]

that little malt is cute. all are. anyway, i have all the info now from you guys (ladysmom) too and i will use it. from what i'm reading my sam prob does not have shunt. I will get him tested anyway.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Starsmom said:


> I may be wrong here, but you may want to reconsider feeding lamb. Lamb is naturally a fatty meat, and might cause tummy issues.


thanks, what do u recomend? No chicken, no lamb. ?? thanks:thumbsup: running out of choices......u guys are good!


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Starsmom said:


> I cared for a dog earlier this year who was just one big itch! Chewed paws, butt, and had the added yeast in his years - scratched his ears, and shook his head A LOT!
> 
> I PM'd Dr. Jaimie about the condition and she told me find a food that was: chicken, beef, lamb, and grain free. I went to a doggy boutique - the personnel there were very knowledgeable. There were 3 foods that fit the bill. They gave me samples of each, instructed me to put them all out a the same time and see which one he ate the most, then buy that one. I recall two of the three brand names: Taste of the Wild Salmon, and NOW grain free. So if you have a boutique in your area try what I did.  There was a recall recently of the Taste of the Wild, but the company has corrected the issue.


i am going to try this . thanks. :thumbsup:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> I agree. Inhaled/environmental allergies are far more common than food allergies, especially in a puppy.
> 
> I'd investigate something in the environment first. Do you use perfume & dye free laundry detergent for his bedding? What shampoo are you using? Do you use carpet powder or chemicals on hard floors? Sometimes dogs can even be allergic to the fibers in carpeting or grasses outside.
> 
> Head shaking and ear scratching sounds like he could have an ear infection or ear mites. Has your vet ever cultured his ear?



I am going to try this. Thanks!:thumbsup: I am done for the day, but I have decided what to do next. Food/Air/BAT thanks all Sammie and Mommy in Sunny Fla.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Your malt's adorable!! :wub::wub: I don't know if anyone answered your question about the Bile Acid Test procedure but we just did it. It gave me such peace of mind. He had to fast from the night before. They then took blood and at some point fed him and took another draw. I had to leave him at the vet for two hours. Picked him up and then a day or so later got results from the lab that all was fine. That's all my non-techie layman description. :HistericalSmiley: Good luck and wishing you the best.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> here is info on mvd
> 
> MVD
> 
> better to be over cautious IMO as they are so small. I try not to worry if it bothers the vet asking questions etc and why I like these groups as vets are busy as well as specialists so i gather info and then go over with them as i take it in all written down. The ones i work with respect that and are impressed with a pet owner who is knowledgeable and cares for their pet. The ones that are bothered with it are not ones I would want to work with anyway and is usually a sign


You are right. I am ready now. I have surgery info and food info. i put 3 new pics on m posts :thumbsup:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Your malt's adorable!! :wub::wub: I don't know if anyone answered your question about the Bile Acid Test procedure but we just did it. It gave me such peace of mind. He had to fast from the night before. They then took blood and at some point fed him and took another draw. I had to leave him at the vet for two hours. Picked him up and then a day or so later got results from the lab that all was fine. That's all my non-techie layman description. :HistericalSmiley: Good luck and wishing you the best.


THANK YOU! Hey it's Sammie's twin. Tyler! the one by the daisy's. your pup looks like my sammie. i will add this pic. u may have seen it-reminds me of your baby love your smiley too. yea i got answers today and this is how i feel.:smstarz: i'm ok, just takes time to learn. look at next post pic


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Your malt's adorable!! :wub::wub: I don't know if anyone answered your question about the Bile Acid Test procedure but we just did it. It gave me such peace of mind. He had to fast from the night before. They then took blood and at some point fed him and took another draw. I had to leave him at the vet for two hours. Picked him up and then a day or so later got results from the lab that all was fine. That's all my non-techie layman description. :HistericalSmiley: Good luck and wishing you the best.


this is the picture that really reminds me of Tyler. I think got the right one this time. :blush:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Your malt's adorable!! :wub::wub: I don't know if anyone answered your question about the Bile Acid Test procedure but we just did it. It gave me such peace of mind. He had to fast from the night before. They then took blood and at some point fed him and took another draw. I had to leave him at the vet for two hours. Picked him up and then a day or so later got results from the lab that all was fine. That's all my non-techie layman description. :HistericalSmiley: Good luck and wishing you the best.


NYC, Wow, wish I was there. Always wanted to go. Drove thru one day, that is it. I think I will put The Goodbye Girl on the DVD. and :chiliut..


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## malteseboy22 (May 25, 2010)

Sammie is so cute.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Since Sammie's brother died from a liver shunt, why is your vet advising you to wait until he is a year old to do bloodwork to see if he has one? Puppies can have a bile acids test once they reach 16 weeks old.
> 
> Perhaps he is not familiar with the bile acid tests protocol? The most up to date version from its developer, Dr. Sharon Center, can be found on the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America website. I'd suggest printing off a copy for him.
> 
> ...


landysmom: my friend put a deposit on a puppy yesterday. I told her to have him tested. what age can he be tested? She told the breeder to meet her at vets office and I dont think he can be tested til 16 weeks. please tell me what to tell her. thanks (she saw kirby with shunt, so she knows about it)


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

4EVERAPUP said:


> landysmom: my friend put a deposit on a puppy yesterday. I told her to have him tested. what age can he be tested? She told the breeder to meet her at vets office and I dont think he can be tested til 16 weeks. please tell me what to tell her. thanks (she saw kirby with shunt, so she knows about it)


Many breeder's test them a little earlier, right before they go home at 12 weeks.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Sammie is so cute and hope he feels better very soon.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Many breeder's test them a little earlier, right before they go home at 12 weeks.


she is picking him up at 8 weeks. byb.. I told her he could not be tested till 16 weeks and get agreement with breeder. i will tell her 12 weeks. this why never stop them!


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

4EVERAPUP said:


> she is picking him up at 8 weeks. byb.. I told her he could not be tested till 16 weeks and get agreement with breeder. i will tell her 12 weeks. this why never stop them!


OMG! A BYB'r - is it too late to get her to change her mind, or get this "breeder" to keep the pup for another month. Much takes place with the Mom and pups during this "extra" time. Buying from pet stores who are supplied by BYB'rs, and puppy mills, and directly from BYB'rs contributes to the continuation of unhealthy dogs.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

4EVERAPUP said:


> she is picking him up at 8 weeks. byb.. I told her he could not be tested till 16 weeks and get agreement with breeder. i will tell her 12 weeks. this why never stop them!



You would think after your experience she would steer away from BYB's!

If she's picking him up at 8 weeks she might as well wait for the bile acids test until 16 weeks. I sure hope she gets a health guarantees that cover genetic conditions for at least a year.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> You would think after your experience she would steer away from BYB's!
> 
> If she's picking him up at 8 weeks she might as well wait for the bile acids test until 16 weeks. I sure hope she gets a health guarantees that cover genetic conditions for at least a year.


I passed on all info to her. that is what I thought too, just wait till 16 weeks to test. I did not have facts when I got Sammie. He is good so far but itchy. I have removed all smelly stuff and washed his bed and vac'd. And I bought the non grain, non chicken, 1 meat - sweet pot & Salmon fish food as suggested to see if he is allergic to grain/chicken. He loves the fish so far. It is same brand food just a diff flavor and I think will be easier to switch him from chicken one. wish me luck.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Starsmom said:


> OMG! A BYB'r - is it too late to get her to change her mind, or get this "breeder" to keep the pup for another month. Much takes place with the Mom and pups during this "extra" time. Buying from pet stores who are supplied by BYB'rs, and puppy mills, and directly from BYB'rs contributes to the continuation of unhealthy dogs.


No, but thanks I will mention the extra month.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> You would think after your experience she would steer away from BYB's!
> 
> If she's picking him up at 8 weeks she might as well wait for the bile acids test until 16 weeks. I sure hope she gets a health guarantees that cover genetic conditions for at least a year.



She called and got an agreement that she can return the pup if needed. I dont know for how long. Better than neither of them understanding the BAT.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Starsmom said:


> I cared for a dog earlier this year who was just one big itch! Chewed paws, butt, and had the added yeast in his years - scratched his ears, and shook his head A LOT!
> 
> I PM'd Dr. Jaimie about the condition and she told me find a food that was: chicken, beef, lamb, and grain free. I went to a doggy boutique - the personnel there were very knowledgeable. There were 3 foods that fit the bill. They gave me samples of each, instructed me to put them all out a the same time and see which one he ate the most, then buy that one. I recall two of the three brand names: Taste of the Wild Salmon, and NOW grain free. So if you have a boutique in your area try what I did.  There was a recall recently of the Taste of the Wild, but the company has corrected the issue.


I got sweet potato/fish only. he ate it well. no grains. same brand as his old food, so will switch better. Now 12 weeks takes to see if food is problem. i removed all smelly stuff and powders in house and will vac more often. if non works its off to a specialist. i got all you guys info so I on my way now to solving it. Vet said may be hard if not the food. thanks!


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> I agree. Inhaled/environmental allergies are far more common than food allergies, especially in a puppy.
> 
> I'd investigate something in the environment first. Do you use perfume & dye free laundry detergent for his bedding? What shampoo are you using? Do you use carpet powder or chemicals on hard floors? Sometimes dogs can even be allergic to the fibers in carpeting or grasses outside.
> 
> Head shaking and ear scratching sounds like he could have an ear infection or ear mites. Has your vet ever cultured his ear?


vets only looked in ear, no culture. said no mites or infection there. both said same. because he is chewing paw after dont think infection but allergy to food or something else. i bought new shampoo at vet dermal-soothe and a oatmeal tea (after this started) so prob not that. i think its in the house. give him time to heal since i took all the stuff out.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> vets only looked in ear, no culture. said no mites or infection there. both said same. because he is chewing paw after dont think infection but allergy to food or something else. i bought new shampoo at vet dermal-soothe and a oatmeal tea (after this started) so prob not that. i think its in the house. give him time to heal since i took all the stuff out.


Oatmeal can make them itchy as it is a grain. Also tea tree is from the meleuca tree which allergy dogs are allergic to so those two things can trigger itching. My allergy dog itches with those type of things


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> I got sweet potato/fish only. he ate it well. no grains. same brand as his old food, so will switch better. Now 12 weeks takes to see if food is problem. i removed all smelly stuff and powders in house and will vac more often. if non works its off to a specialist. i got all you guys info so I on my way now to solving it. Vet said may be hard if not the food. thanks!


your vet is right if not food you have 4 options 

hyposensitization shots- most natural but only works in 75% of dogs 

anithistamines with omega 3 oils 

steroids 

atopica


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

For any of the "other" food and treats you may have left, call your local SPCA/non-kill shelter and ask them if they accept opened food and treats. When I changed my fur friend's food, I brought a barely opened 25# bag of food, several cans, and treats I knew he couldn't have to the SPCA.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> your vet is right if not food you have 4 options
> 
> hyposensitization shots- most natural but only works in 75% of dogs
> 
> ...


Hi! My hope is if not food it was something I got rid of and if so vet said he will stop itching. I just hate him shaking head. Now I wait. I will get rid tea poo. Anyway. What do u use? I will know if food at least. Fish food stinks.:smilie_tischkante:
Thx.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Starsmom said:


> For any of the "other" food and treats you may have left, call your local SPCA/non-kill shelter and ask them if they accept opened food and treats. When I changed my fur friend's food, I brought a barely opened 25# bag of food, several cans, and treats I knew he couldn't have to the SPCA.[/
> 
> Will do. Good idea. I never toss good stuff.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> Hi! My hope is if not food it was something I got rid of and if so vet said he will stop itching. I just hate him shaking head. Now I wait. I will get rid tea poo. Anyway. What do u use? I will know if food at least. Fish food stinks.:smilie_tischkante:
> Thx.


I use dr bronners mild unscented baby shampoo on my allergy girl as it is all organic ingredients. I also use Blue Hypoallergenic but they stopped making it  Castor and pollux had a good hypoallergenic as well. Earthbath has a good hypoallergenic shampoo as well 

If he is still shaking his head then it sounds like he has an ear infection and i would have ears cultured as you said vet did not do that


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> I use dr bronners mild unscented baby shampoo on my allergy girl as it is all organic ingredients. I also use Blue Hypoallergenic but they stopped making it  Castor and pollux had a good hypoallergenic as well. Earthbath has a good hypoallergenic shampoo as well
> 
> If he is still shaking his head then it sounds like he has an ear infection and i would have ears cultured as you said vet did not do that


OK, I will print the names out before his next bath on Friday. vet did not culture bec he is chewing paw right after scratching ears and thats allergies. it is the way he does it, he had me explain it. APOTHY I think called. Said he was young to have it. But would test further at 1 yr if not gone after I do my thing here with food/other. (2nd Vet opinion said same thing) I have wondered if its from his ears being erect till 4 months. ??? You can only guess so far and you want to enjoy your pet. Hey, he has not shook his head this am and his eyes are dry (sam has no tear staining) but his eyes were draining clear some on bridge. Been 2 days since I took all Laundry stuff to, powder, perfumes, plugins all to garage. I vacuumed good, dusted good, mopped with water only. :grouphug:
He loves his new fish food (i call it that). weird to feed a dog fish food. Not one itch or head shake this am. plus I am airing house out good everyday. Its cool here so easier to turn a/c off. Today I am doing vents and fan blades and blinds (dust). Tomm am is his teeth surgery and I real the thread about anesthesia and I hope they get it right. He did good on neuter. The told me he is not out long, the teeth pop out pretty easy. your babies just are so cute when I see them all sitting there posing..luv the new avatar.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

4EVERAPUP said:


> OK, I will print the names out before his next bath on Friday. vet did not culture bec he is chewing paw right after scratching ears and thats allergies. it is the way he does it, he had me explain it. APOTHY I think called. Said he was young to have it. But would test further at 1 yr if not gone after I do my thing here with food/other. (2nd Vet opinion said same thing) I have wondered if its from his ears being erect till 4 months. ??? You can only guess so far and you want to enjoy your pet. Hey, he has not shook his head this am and his eyes are dry (sam has no tear staining) but his eyes were draining clear some on bridge. Been 2 days since I took all Laundry stuff to, powder, perfumes, plugins all to garage. I vacuumed good, dusted good, mopped with water only. :grouphug:
> He loves his new fish food (i call it that). weird to feed a dog fish food. Not one itch or head shake this am. plus I am airing house out good everyday. Its cool here so easier to turn a/c off. Today I am doing vents and fan blades and blinds (dust). Tomm am is his teeth surgery and I real the thread about anesthesia and I hope they get it right. He did good on neuter. The told me he is not out long, the teeth pop out pretty easy. your babies just are so cute when I see them all sitting there posing..luv the new avatar.


You're doing a great job. Good luck with the dental tomorrow. Let us know how it goes. :grouphug:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

*Here are some pics of my little guard dog this morning.
*:ThankYou:*for all the tips. I'm off to clean again......yuk!*


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

Sounds like you're a cleaning whirlwind! On other thing you may have overlooked - the filter in your heating/ac system. When was the last time it was changed/cleaned? It's good he's not scratching! :thumbsup:


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> OK, I will print the names out before his next bath on Friday. vet did not culture bec he is chewing paw right after scratching ears and thats allergies. it is the way he does it, he had me explain it. APOTHY I think called. Said he was young to have it. But would test further at 1 yr if not gone after I do my thing here with food/other. (2nd Vet opinion said same thing) I have wondered if its from his ears being erect till 4 months. ??? You can only guess so far and you want to enjoy your pet. Hey, he has not shook his head this am and his eyes are dry (sam has no tear staining) but his eyes were draining clear some on bridge. Been 2 days since I took all Laundry stuff to, powder, perfumes, plugins all to garage. I vacuumed good, dusted good, mopped with water only. :grouphug:
> He loves his new fish food (i call it that). weird to feed a dog fish food. Not one itch or head shake this am. plus I am airing house out good everyday. Its cool here so easier to turn a/c off. Today I am doing vents and fan blades and blinds (dust). Tomm am is his teeth surgery and I real the thread about anesthesia and I hope they get it right. He did good on neuter. The told me he is not out long, the teeth pop out pretty easy. your babies just are so cute when I see them all sitting there posing..luv the new avatar.


thanks 

We also use the hypoallergenic air filters so you may want to change air filters to that - I believe they are by honeywell. This way when using heater or a/c it will not blow dust out all over the house. We also use oreck air purification in the rooms dee dee is in. 

actually floppy ears are worse than erect ears as floppy ears keep moisture in the ears so make sure when bathing not to get water in the ears. This is why cocker spaniels have so much ear trouble.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Starsmom said:


> Sounds like you're a cleaning whirlwind! On other thing you may have overlooked - the filter in your heating/ac system. When was the last time it was changed/cleaned? It's good he's not scratching! :thumbsup:



Good point! :thumbsup:

I also have air purifiers all over my house. Both Lady and I have allergies and it really helps.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> thanks
> 
> We also use the hypoallergenic air filters so you may want to change air filters to that - I believe they are by honeywell. This way when using heater or a/c it will not blow dust out all over the house. We also use oreck air purification in the rooms dee dee is in.
> 
> floppy ears are worse than erect ears as floppy ears keep moisture in the ears so make sure when bathing not to get water in the ears. This is why cocker spaniels have so much ear trouble.


some of the things vets say amaze me. must make it up as they go if don't know. anyway his ears should have never be erect and u can see pinker area that is still not flat right at the fold line. I am taking him to an allergy/ear specialist at 12 mo (in big city-2nd vet gave me name) to have him evaluated. Its just my intuition maybe causing early allergies. may not be all his problem but I want to know if all does not disappear. Sammie is pet sitting a bird, which he made friends with the am. :hugging:Caught me be surprise and I had to take a picture fast.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Starsmom said:


> Sounds like you're a cleaning whirlwind! On other thing you may have overlooked - the filter in your heating/ac system. When was the last time it was changed/cleaned? It's good he's not scratching! :thumbsup:


And I thought my house was clean! I change them often.....But I have a  weird size and have to have ACE order special for me, so I will have to check on a HYPO one with them. I will find one somewhere......


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Starsmom said:


> Sounds like you're a cleaning whirlwind! On other thing you may have overlooked - the filter in your heating/ac system. When was the last time it was changed/cleaned? It's good he's not scratching! :thumbsup:


it's the dust, not really hard cleaning I need. Dust is REAL bad where I live in Fla. Vet said he sees this most here with dust/pollen in white dogs mostly. and pug nose ones.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

4EVERAPUP said:


> And I thought my house was clean! I change them often.....But I have a  weird size and have to have ACE order special for me, so I will have to check on a HYPO one with them. I will find one somewhere......


Mine are an odd size, too. I order them from here. I use the Merv 11.

Air Filters - Commercial, Residential, Industrial - Buy Replacement Air Filters Online

Room air purifiers make a huge difference, too. It's amazing how much they suck out of the air.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Mine are an odd size, too. I order them from here. I use the Merv 11.
> 
> Air Filters - Commercial, Residential, Industrial - Buy Replacement Air Filters Online
> 
> Room air purifiers make a huge difference, too. It's amazing how much they suck out of the air.


Wow, u guys are good. :SM Rocks!:


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

4EVERAPUP said:


> Wow, u guys are good. :SM Rocks!:


It's amazing how much less you have to dust if you use a high quality furnace filter and air purifiers.

Another thought is that Sammie's bed could be aggravating his allergies. It is probably full of dust mites. You coud try a bed pillow with a dust mite cover, then a cover over that. FuFu Fashions makes neat ones:

K9 Kuddlers

Adding fatty acids (fish oil) also helps boost the immune system. My vet had me add it when Lady was diagnosed with allergies.

Omega Fatty Acids: Sources, Effects, and Therapeutic Usesin Dogs


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> It's amazing how much less you have to dust if you use a high quality furnace filter and air purifiers.
> 
> Another thought is that Sammie's bed could be aggravating his allergies. It is probably full of dust mites. You coud try a bed pillow with a dust mite cover, then a cover over that. FuFu Fashions makes neat ones:
> 
> ...


good idea. I tossed the old bed out. I have a (old) bed pillow with case now. I need to get a shampoo. I have an Oatmeal/tea tree oil I will return to pet store for a Hypo one. And I can get a new bed pillow and a dust mite cover. thx


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> It's amazing how much less you have to dust if you use a high quality furnace filter and air purifiers.
> 
> Another thought is that Sammie's bed could be aggravating his allergies. It is probably full of dust mites. You coud try a bed pillow with a dust mite cover, then a cover over that. FuFu Fashions makes neat ones:
> 
> ...


those Beds are SO CUTE! I am off this week, so I want to get all this straightened out.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> It's amazing how much less you have to dust if you use a high quality furnace filter and air purifiers.
> 
> Another thought is that Sammie's bed could be aggravating his allergies. It is probably full of dust mites. You coud try a bed pillow with a dust mite cover, then a cover over that. FuFu Fashions makes neat ones:
> 
> ...


can I wash his little fleece crate beds (2) in hot water and kill any bugs? they were not cheap.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

4EVERAPUP said:


> can I wash his little fleece crate beds (2) in hot water and kill any bugs? they were not cheap.


Yes, of course. When you have allergies they tell you to wash your blankets every week in hot water. Just make sure you use perfume and dye free detergent.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> some of the things vets say amaze me. must make it up as they go if don't know. anyway his ears should have never be erect and u can see pinker area that is still not flat right at the fold line. I am taking him to an allergy/ear specialist at 12 mo (in big city-2nd vet gave me name) to have him evaluated. Its just my intuition maybe causing early allergies. may not be all his problem but I want to know if all does not disappear. Sammie is pet sitting a bird, which he made friends with the am. :hugging:Caught me be surprise and I had to take a picture fast.


those pics are great 

yeah allergies are very tough but you are learning to do all the right things and if this all does not work then you at least tried everything 

we buy perfume and dye free laundry detergent from costco and wash bedding weekly in hot water


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> And I thought my house was clean! I change them often.....But I have a  weird size and have to have ACE order special for me, so I will have to check on a HYPO one with them. I will find one somewhere......


we do too so we have to special order them from appliance store


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

I have had good success with coconut oil. 

I know fish oil is tried first as it is omega 3 which keeps inflammation down which allergies cause inflammation so if doing fish oil to start I like this brand 
NORDIC NATURALS :: NORDIC PET

It is distilled therefore no mercury and mercury can make them itchy among other issues

It also has vitamin E so if you supplement with fish oil you have to have vitamin E added as fish oil depletes the body of vitamin E. On the bottle it does not list it but I did call and they said it had vitamin E in it but you may want to double check as I called a while ago on this. 

I did not have good luck with fish oil. Some dogs can be allergic to fish but it is worth a try because if having to use antihistamines then the omega 3 with antihistamines works well together. 

Many dogs do not do well with antihistamines as they sometimes do not work but the combo above sometimes work. 

I like the coconut oil as a natural antifungal and anti-bacterial and it keeps bacteria and fungal infections down in the body as allergy dogs are really prone to these from itching, etc


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> It's amazing how much less you have to dust if you use a high quality furnace filter and air purifiers.
> 
> Another thought is that Sammie's bed could be aggravating his allergies. It is probably full of dust mites. You coud try a bed pillow with a dust mite cover, then a cover over that. FuFu Fashions makes neat ones:
> 
> ...


I JUST NOTICED. A while back he chewed the paint off the wall one day before I saw him doing it. here is pic. I wondered if this caused his issues. Seems it was around the same time. :smhelp:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> I have had good success with coconut oil.
> 
> I know fish oil is tried first as it is omega 3 which keeps inflammation down which allergies cause inflammation so if doing fish oil to start I like this brand
> NORDIC NATURALS :: NORDIC PET
> ...


I am writing it all down on list. I dont know what is safe for 9 month though. got a pile of stuff to return to pet store for refund with perfumes in it. beds in washer now. back to cleaning.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> I have had good success with coconut oil.
> 
> I know fish oil is tried first as it is omega 3 which keeps inflammation down which allergies cause inflammation so if doing fish oil to start I like this brand
> NORDIC NATURALS :: NORDIC PET
> ...


when I saw him kissing the bird, all I could think was is he allergic to the bird?????? OMG. this is crazy.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

two things that have been great are the 

ROOMBA vacuum and the shark steam mop 

You can get them from costco and they work great for allergy dogs.

We ripped out our brand new carpet in the family room so the rooms where dee dee is in are hardwood, tile and laminate - she would rub her belly on the carpet causing rug burns so I do not have rugs or carpet anywhere. We have her pretty well managed now but it was not fun getting to this point. 

What happens is when a dog itches it increases rapidly. Think of it like when you get a mosquito bite and you itch it then it itches more and more and more - same thing with an allergy dog. Many times I will pick her up and calm her until she stops then it subsides as I calmed her system to relax it from escalating. Hope that makes sense 

She again was 6 mos when this all started so your dog is not too young for this to start. She was perfect no issues until her last set of vaccinations  I know she needed them for protection but sometimes I wish I could go back in time with what I know now to see if I could have done things different for her as back then I did not know anything about vaccinations. Dex had same ones and is ok so guess she just had a poor immune system and these set her off


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> I am writing it all down on list. I dont know what is safe for 9 month though. got a pile of stuff to return to pet store for refund with perfumes in it. beds in washer now. back to cleaning.


run everything by vet so you feel more comfortable 

and I know my dad laughs and says our house is like a white room because of DD. Once you figure things out it will get easier and maybe some of the things we posted will help and he may just have a mild allergy. 

oh and it is atophy which is atopic dermatitis - a fancy term for enviromental allergies  

dr dodds told me to put white pillow cases on beds as the dyes from fabric can also be an issue thus perfume and dye free detergent helping. I did it for a while but did not see a huge difference. 

I know the feeling we were like is she allergic to human dander, demi, dexter lol. I have analyzed this to death and cried many a times over this little girl as I thought if i threw enough money at it she would be fixed but some things you cannot fix you can only manage and give them the best life you can. I hate drugs but sometimes you have to do what you have to do and sadly I had to go that route after trying natural. The one regret was not doing hyposensitization shots


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> two things that have been great are the
> 
> ROOMBA vacuum and the shark steam mop
> 
> ...


:goodpost:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Anyone???

I will now check into the shots for sure if needed. I think it's coming from my bedroom/bath. He acts up more in there. I think. I'm in there cleaning today. He would hide and lick the shower floor when he could hide it from me. Door closed now. I have to go get the laundry soap and shampoo and oil pills today. Got rid of dryer sheets. need new ones. Also, I keep wondering about all his toys? Tossed old ones. Here is what I kept. dont if from China with all dangers. toxins. ???


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

I wanted to start giving him the veggies on list that are ok for a snack. whatcha think? i was gonna get carrot sticks.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I agree. I love my Shark steam mop.

No dryer sheets. They are toxic to dogs.

Is it Safe to Use Dryer Sheets on Pet Fur to Remove Odor, Static?

Don't make yourself too crazy. If it is allergies, ask your vet about giving him an antihistamine. Lady has gotten 1/4 Zyrtec a day for years per her vet for her allergies.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> I agree. I love my Shark steam mop.
> 
> No dryer sheets. They are toxic to dogs.
> 
> ...


ok, I will get rid of dyer sheets. I need something for my clothes though I have hard water. (sam drinks spring water) he used to get them from me and run away under the bed (used ones) to chew them. I got them back, but it was hard. He is fast! I hope he can get a med if dont go away. no head shake today. odd! I dont have a much laminate flooring, mostly carpet. I just use the water/vin mix and if I clean spot with cleaner, I redo it with the water. I use alot of dryer sheets, so maybe its in all my sheets/clothes. thx for site.


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## angelsugar (Apr 22, 2006)

Snowbody said:


> Your malt's adorable!! :wub::wub: I don't know if anyone answered your question about the Bile Acid Test procedure but we just did it. It gave me such peace of mind. He had to fast from the night before. They then took blood and at some point fed him and took another draw. I had to leave him at the vet for two hours. Picked him up and then a day or so later got results from the lab that all was fine. That's all my non-techie layman description. :HistericalSmiley: Good luck and wishing you the best.





Ladysmom said:


> Some vets just aren't that familiar with liver disease and aren't up to date on the current protocol for diagnosing and treating it.
> 
> Since Sammie's littermate died from a shunt, Sammie should have been tested months ago.
> 
> A bile acids tests is a simple and inexpensive test. According to Dr. Center, all Maltese should have one.



Good posts!

No truer words could be spoken. All Maltese should have the bile acid test as pups. :aktion033:


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

4EVERAPUP said:


> Anyone???
> 
> I will now check into the shots for sure if needed. I think it's coming from my bedroom/bath. He acts up more in there. I think. I'm in there cleaning today. He would hide and lick the shower floor when he could hide it from me. Door closed now. I have to go get the laundry soap and shampoo and oil pills today. Got rid of dryer sheets. need new ones. Also, I keep wondering about all his toys? Tossed old ones. Here is what I kept. dont if from China with all dangers. toxins. ???


Downy makes a fragrance free softener - it's in a white container instead of the familiar blue.



4EVERAPUP said:


> I wanted to start giving him the veggies on list that are ok for a snack. whatcha think? i was gonna get carrot sticks.


Carrots are a good snack, but too many of them may cause eye stain discoloring from the beta carotene :huh:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

*Just dropped my Sammie at Vet for Teeth removal.* *rayer: *I am nervous, but I asked them to listen to his heart for anything abnormal so he can adjust meds if needed. I read to do this on Dr. Jamie's thread. They prob think I'm over reacting. 
He was itching this am a lot. I told the tech (he is in vet school) he still itching a lot. I told him what all I did and he said, "Problem is you can't remove the air he breaths and this is common in Fla with these dogs, but you've removed the obvious so wait and see about food, prob air though. we can give him med for it, but he want's him to be little older first. So bath a lot and see what happens with food and prob wont make a difference to start back walking him again, since he has not been on grass for over a month and still itching" Oh he had never heard of toxic dryer sheets causing this problem when I told him Sam chewed a used one.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Starsmom said:


> Downy makes a fragrance free softener - it's in a white container instead of the familiar blue.
> 
> 
> 
> Carrots are a good snack, but too many of them may cause eye stain discoloring from the beta carotene :huh:


ooh --- I don't want the tear stains. thanks!


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Fluffy said:


> The head shaking sends red flags to me and I am glad you are seeking a second opinion!
> 
> I'm not really familiar with dog foods but I have had a dog with allergies. It turned out he was allergic to the carpet powder. If the itching is new, what else is new? Even small changes can cause an allergy to flare up. A change of laundry detergent, a new collar, new shampoo, basically anything new needs to be looked over with a fine tooth comb. Also, if he's playing a lot outside just double check what sort of plants are in the area. Even if he isn't digesting any harmful plants, just by touching them can causing itching/redness.


Good point. I have Jatropha Plants in the back garden. He does not go near them. I wonder if the smell from the flowers harm him. He sits on back porch a lot and they are in garden off the porch. I read they were toxic but that was when eaten. Its hard to tell what hybrid you have now. 

Its sap is a skin irritant, and ingesting as few as three untreated seeds can be fatal to humans. In 2005 Western Australia banned _Jatropha gossypiifolia_ as invasive and highly toxic to people and animals.http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/#cite_note-times-19


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> I wanted to start giving him the veggies on list that are ok for a snack. whatcha think? i was gonna get carrot sticks.


go with just food and use food as a treat. You need to go very basic until you figure out if food allergy or not so nothing else but dog food for 12 weeks. If you do other things you will not know if food allergy or not


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> ok, I will get rid of dyer sheets. I need something for my clothes though I have hard water. (sam drinks spring water) he used to get them from me and run away under the bed (used ones) to chew them. I got them back, but it was hard. He is fast! I hope he can get a med if dont go away. no head shake today. odd! I dont have a much laminate flooring, mostly carpet. I just use the water/vin mix and if I clean spot with cleaner, I redo it with the water. I use alot of dryer sheets, so maybe its in all my sheets/clothes. thx for site.


could be the dryer sheets then so eliminate that for sure. We do not use these as I have read bad things for human and for dogs.

zyrtec has been the best for antihistamine in allergy dogs on our allerdog group so definitely discuss with vet if environmental allergies


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> could be the dryer sheets then so eliminate that for sure. We do not use these as I have read bad things for human and for dogs.
> 
> zyrtec has been the best for antihistamine in allergy dogs on our allerdog group so definitely discuss with vet if environmental allergies



got it! thx!


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

*My Sammie is out of Surgery and did great! *He had 4 teeth pulled and NO MURMUR OR ARRHYTHMIA in his :heart:, just love. Glad I asked him to check first, now I know.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

4EVERAPUP said:


> *My Sammie is out of Surgery and did great! *He had 4 teeth pulled and NO MURMUR OR ARRHYTHMIA in his :heart:, just love. Glad I asked him to check first, now I know.


:cheer: Great news. So glad he got through the surgery fine and no heart issues. I know there's plenty of love...he's a Maltese right?B):HistericalSmiley:They are such lovebugs.:wub::wub: Hope the allergy issues subside. In my house we have a lot of scent related and skin allergy issues. We only use All Free, no dryer sheets, never any scented candles, plug ins, sprays, etc and no perfume. We also use old fashioned Ivory bar soap in our showers. Also hope you do get the Bile Acid Test done. It really is a relief when it's fine and if it isn't quick intervention is best.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> :cheer: Great news. So glad he got through the surgery fine and no heart issues. I know there's plenty of love...he's a Maltese right?B):HistericalSmiley:They are such lovebugs.:wub::wub: Hope the allergy issues subside. In my house we have a lot of scent related and skin allergy issues. We only use All Free, no dryer sheets, never any scented candles, plug ins, sprays, etc and no perfume. We also use old fashioned Ivory bar soap in our showers. Also hope you do get the Bile Acid Test done. It really is a relief when it's fine and if it isn't quick intervention is best.


I am so happy!!!!!! The BAT is next on list. Allergy: I have to wait 6 weeks for all I changed to work, if even does. I switched to Salmon food no grains. I told Vet today and he said prob coming from inhaled (in a puppy) but worth a try and bath him twice a week for now and if still itching after 6 weeks he will advise more. He has mini schnauzers with allergies.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> :cheer: Great news. So glad he got through the surgery fine and no heart issues. I know there's plenty of love...he's a Maltese right?B):HistericalSmiley:They are such lovebugs.:wub::wub: Hope the allergy issues subside. In my house we have a lot of scent related and skin allergy issues. We only use All Free, no dryer sheets, never any scented candles, plug ins, sprays, etc and no perfume. We also use old fashioned Ivory bar soap in our showers. Also hope you do get the Bile Acid Test done. It really is a relief when it's fine and if it isn't quick intervention is best.


what do u feed tyler? does he have any itching? where do u get the pita patter under pic?


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

4EVERAPUP said:


> what do u feed tyler? does he have any itching? where do u get the pita patter under pic?


I used to feed Tyler Wellness wet food but now I home cook. I've cooked for my DS's life threatening food allergies for 20 year so this isn't that big a deal. I know a lot about food allergies in people and have produced videos on it. I have been supplementing Tyler's food with daily supplements but he did start to exhibit a bit of biting his feet for the first time ever. It's an herbal supplement so I backed off it recently to see if there's a change. He doesn't scratch much at all. He was a picky eater and never liked kibble so the change to me cooking has seen him eat with gusto.
Google "pita pata" and you can download a free event tracker and paste it to your siggie. It's also nice to put your first name in your avatar so we get to know you. You can see a lot of us on SM do it


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> I used to feed Tyler Wellness wet food but now I home cook. I've cooked for my DS's life threatening food allergies for 20 year so this isn't that big a deal. I know a lot about food allergies in people and have produced videos on it. I have been supplementing Tyler's food with daily supplements but he did start to exhibit a bit of biting his feet for the first time ever. It's an herbal supplement so I backed off it recently to see if there's a change. He doesn't scratch much at all. He was a picky eater and never liked kibble so the change to me cooking has seen him eat with gusto.
> Google "pita pata" and you can download a free event tracker and paste it to your siggie. It's also nice to put your first name in your avatar so we get to know you. You can see a lot of us on SM do it


ya know Vet keeps saying (2) that is not from food. ??? I cant home cook with working. He likes his kibble a lot. I wont tell you what the BYB fed him. yuk! told me to give for 6 months. I quit right away. If I get sick looking at it, he ain't getting it. What shampoo do u use? I need one today. The others I had were not good. i will put *Kandis* in avatar.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

4EVERAPUP said:


> ya know Vet keeps saying (2) that is not from food. ??? I cant home cook with working. He likes his kibble a lot. I wont tell you what the BYB fed him. yuk! told me to give for 6 months. I quit right away. If I get sick looking at it, he ain't getting it. What shampoo do u use? I need one today. The others I had were not good. i will put *Kandis* in avatar.


Hi Kandis:thumbsup: I use La Pouch Puppy tearless shampoo and conditioner for Tyler. I'm extremely allergic to formaldehyde and am fine with this shampoo and conditioner as is Tyler.I tried some other shampoo on him a while back and I got a reaction on the delicate skin under my eye. 
For myself I use Freeman Shampoo and Conditioner -- Coconut and Papaya and they are color retention since I dye my hair:w00t:. Works for me and has more of a fruit smell than a flowery smell.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Many breeder's test them a little earlier, right before they go home at 12 weeks.


*UPDATE*: My friend explained the chance of a liver shunt/BAT and that she wanted to have puppy tested at 12 weeks. Breeder initially agreed--but now says she was advised not to sell her a dog at all and returned her deposit.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Starsmom said:


> OMG! A BYB'r - is it too late to get her to change her mind, or get this "breeder" to keep the pup for another month.


*UPDATE*: My friend explained the liver shunt disease/BAT and that she wanted to have puppy tested at 12 weeks. Breeder initially agreed to these terms--but now says she was advised not to sell her a dog at all and returned her deposit.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

4EVERAPUP said:


> *UPDATE*: My friend explained the liver shunt disease/BAT and that she wanted to have puppy tested at 12 weeks. Breeder initially agreed to these terms--but now says she was advised not to sell her a dog at all and returned her deposit.


Probably a good thing. Right away that says to me that the breeder wasn't so sure of her pup's health but probably no one else was ever thorough enough to ask.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Probably a good thing. Right away that says to me that the breeder wasn't so sure of her pup's health but probably no one else was ever thorough enough to ask.


I bet someone wanted it w/out testing. I think they prefer it that way. It's a pretty small town. I need to find out how to find her a good breeder in Fla that will test with her. She will find another one.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Scary thing is not knowing what bat meant. :huh:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

i cant get the ticker right, always tomm.......:HistericalSmiley:


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

4EVERAPUP said:


> *UPDATE*: My friend explained the liver shunt disease/BAT and that she wanted to have puppy tested at 12 weeks. Breeder initially agreed to these terms--but now says she was advised not to sell her a dog at all and returned her deposit.


Wow! Good thing she didn't get that puppy, huh? Sounds like the breeder was worried about the results!


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Wow! Good thing she didn't get that puppy, huh? Sounds like the breeder was worried about the results!


just did not want to deal with it i think. prob had a new buyer my guess. she was up for it. but small town, things go around fast if turned out to fail test.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Wow! Good thing she didn't get that puppy, huh? Sounds like the breeder was worried about the results!


we are gonna try and find one on this site for her.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Wow! Good thing she didn't get that puppy, huh? Sounds like the breeder was worried about the results!


U bet! good thing for sure..in my opinion.


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

4EVERAPUP said:


> ya know Vet keeps saying (2) that is not from food. ??? I cant home cook with working. He likes his kibble a lot. I wont tell you what the BYB fed him. yuk! told me to give for 6 months. I quit right away. If I get sick looking at it, he ain't getting it. What shampoo do u use? I need one today. The others I had were not good. i will put *Kandis* in avatar.


If you want to home cook you can make a large amount, and portion it out, then freeze it. 

Your friend not getting that pup is a blessing in disguise. Unfortunately someone else will buy it, and perpetuate the greed of that BYB'er.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Did you get to show your friend the link to SCMR? I just loved that pup that I mentioned. :wub:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Did you get to show your friend the link to SCMR? I just loved that pup that I mentioned. :wub:





Starsmom said:


> If you want to home cook you can make a large amount, and portion it out, then freeze it.
> 
> Your friend not getting that pup is a blessing in disguise. Unfortunately someone else will buy it, and perpetuate the greed of that BYB'er.


Susan,
Yes, I showed her. He was cutie. Not sure what she is doing now-have not seen her since I went with her to see one in paper (I told her would be something off don't have to put these little guys in paper if all okay) but they were (nice people/nice dog) but was 12 pound cutie pie:wub: malty/poodle. :HistericalSmiley:they were elderly and told it was pure malt. Sorry it was funny if you were there......hey, I added new thread about Sammie today. Odor???

Thanks Starsmom, about food and yes thats the problem just keeps going.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Did you get to show your friend the link to SCMR? I just loved that pup that I mentioned. :wub:


Sue I know u said you knew about allergies. when you get a minute, tell your thoughts. I am going to have to change his food again...he stinks from the fish and i can not take it. so i guess i will try venison grain free in order to keep him on the trial and in same food brand which makes it easier on him i was told. he is on nat balance brand. they have alot of grain free choices. i did not want to give him his old food cause we will have to start over with the chicken part so you think i should go straight to venison from fish/and continue trial. he only been on fish since Monday. he still has 3 days before he goes totally off old food. itching still. but too soon to tell anyway. takes 4 weeks they say and should start to decrease in itch at 2 weeks. i also rem i had stanley steamer in 2 months ago and i wonder????? i had it sprayed with the stain protector too.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

4EVERAPUP said:


> Sue I know u said you knew about allergies. when you get a minute, tell your thoughts. I am going to have to change his food again...he stinks from the fish and i can not take it. so i guess i will try venison grain free in order to keep him on the trial and in same food brand which makes it easier on him i was told. he is on nat balance brand. they have alot of grain free choices. i did not want to give him his old food cause we will have to start over with the chicken part so you think i should go straight to venison from fish/and continue trial. he only been on fish since Monday. he still has 3 days before he goes totally off old food. itching still. but too soon to tell anyway. takes 4 weeks they say and should start to decrease in itch at 2 weeks. i also rem i had stanley steamer in 2 months ago and i wonder????? i had it sprayed with the stain protector too.


Kandis - unfortunately I'm better with people food allergy than dog. Especially with young dogs you're supposed to intro foods gradually so each change should be subtle. If a couple of meals a day maybe one with new food or a portion of old and new. I saw the odor post by you and Tyler has a little gas occasionally but nothing that bad. I don't feed him much fish because of my DS's allergy to fish. 
I'm wondering about the carpet cleaning though. With DSs allergies and mainly asthma I was told never to steam clean a carpet, ever. It increases the chance of mold and mildew and I think the moisture can breed mites especially since mites are killed with high temp drying. I only have wood floors and area rugs in my house for that reason. So that could trigger allergies as well as who knows what chemicals are in the stain protector. I think that could well be your culprit more than anything.


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

Here is the health hazard from 3M's Scotch Guard carpet protector and the entire MSDS information here: 3M GENERAL OFFICES -- SCOTCHGARD BRAND CARPET PROTECTOR, 1023

Health Hazard Data
===========================================================================
LD50-LC50 Mixture: NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER. 
Route Of Entry - Inhalation: YES 
Route Of Entry - Skin: YES 
Route Of Entry - Ingestion: YES 
Health Haz Acute And Chronic: EYE:MILD IRRIT:SIGNS/SYMPS CAN INCLUDE
REDNESS, SWELLING, PAIN & TEARING. SKIN:MILD IRRIT (AFTER PRLNGD/RPTD CONT)
:SIGNS/SYMPS CAN INCLUDE REDNESS, SWELLING & ITCHING. MAY BE ABSORBED &
PRDCE EFTS SIMILAR TO THOSE CAUSED BY INHAL &/OR INGEST. INHAL:INTENTIONAL
CONC & INHAL MAY BE HARMFUL/FATAL. SINGLE (EFTS OF OVEREXP)
Carcinogenicity - NTP: NO 
Carcinogenicity - IARC: NO 
Carcinogenicity - OSHA: NO 
Explanation Carcinogenicity: NOT RELEVANT
Signs/Symptoms Of Overexp: HLTH HAZS:OVEREXP, ABOVE REC GUIDELINES, MAY
CAUSE:CNS DEPRESS:SIGNS/SYMPS CAN INCLUDE HDCH, DIZZ, DROW, INCOORD, SLOWED
RXN TIME, SLURRED SPEECH, GIDD & UNCON. PRLNGD/RPTD OVEREXP, ABOVE REC
GUIDELINES, MAY CAUSE:IRRIT (UPPER RESP):SIGNS/SYMPS CAN INLCUDE SORENESS
OF NOSE & THROAT, COUGHING & SNEEZING. INGESTING 10)
Med Cond Aggravated By Exp: NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER.
Emergency/First Aid Proc: EYE:IMMED FLUSH W/LG AMTS OF WATER FOR @ LST 15
MIN. GET IMMED MED ATTN. SKIN:FLUSH W/LG AMTS OF WATER. IF IRRIT PERSISTS,
GET MED ATTN. INHAL:IF SIGNS/SYMPS OCCUR, REMOVE PERSON TO FRESH AIR. IF
SIGNS/SYMPS CONTINUE, CALL MD. INGESTO NOT INDUCE VOMIT. DRINK TWO
GLASSES OF WATER. CALL MD.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

UPDATE: I just called Stanley steamer and they said i had no stain protector, just a deodorizer at the end. Sorry Starsmom. I thought it was the other stuff. anyway they will come TOMM AM and clean it with _water only_ for 150.00. but they steam I guess I will call another carpet company for non steam or just get my den carpet pulled up and put laminate down like the kitchen is. he is shaking head and sneezing today ALOT. I just put med in ears??? I bought NAT BALANCE DUCK/no grain food, he was on it before. not his fav, but easiest to switch to. He is going to the vet for blood work Monday. I feel so bad bec I can't help him. :angry::angry: i WANT TO CRY!

OH I FORGOT: Was cleaned 08/14 , he started this mid October I think. too long?


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Starsmom said:


> Here is the health hazard from 3M's Scotch Guard carpet protector and the entire MSDS information here: 3M GENERAL OFFICES -- SCOTCHGARD BRAND CARPET PROTECTOR, 1023
> 
> Health Hazard Data
> ===========================================================================
> ...



HOLY COW! thats bad stuff, I went online this am read about kids getting Kawasaki (?) disease from carpet cleaners. .thanks so much. I still think that is what I got.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Kandis - unfortunately I'm better with people food allergy than dog. Especially with young dogs you're supposed to intro foods gradually so each change should be subtle. If a couple of meals a day maybe one with new food or a portion of old and new. I saw the odor post by you and Tyler has a little gas occasionally but nothing that bad. I don't feed him much fish because of my DS's allergy to fish.
> I'm wondering about the carpet cleaning though. With DSs allergies and mainly asthma I was told never to steam clean a carpet, ever. It increases the chance of mold and mildew and I think the moisture can breed mites especially since mites are killed with high temp drying. I only have wood floors and area rugs in my house for that reason. So that could trigger allergies as well as who knows what chemicals are in the stain protector. I think that could well be your culprit more than anything.


thanks, i will do that with the food, vet said was air related too. but ???


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

i found a carpet company that will clean entire house for 100.00 tomm or monday and they said they use only hot water (which i think is steam, she said it only way) and will use nothing else and it will just take out the chemicals in it. You never know if it will get all that stuff out, but I think its worth a shot! she said it will, they have done these type calls for allergy people before.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> i found a carpet company that will clean entire house for 100.00 tomm or monday and they said they use only hot water (which i think is steam, she said it only way) and will use nothing else and it will just take out the chemicals in it. You never know if it will get all that stuff out, but I think its worth a shot! she said it will, they have done these type calls for allergy people before.


the only prob to be aware of is one allergy issue is to mold and if they over saturate the carpet and do not get it really dry that is something to be of concern with so always best to do this in the summer when it is really hot and the carpet will dry fast.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> Sue I know u said you knew about allergies. when you get a minute, tell your thoughts. I am going to have to change his food again...he stinks from the fish and i can not take it. so i guess i will try venison grain free in order to keep him on the trial and in same food brand which makes it easier on him i was told. he is on nat balance brand. they have alot of grain free choices. i did not want to give him his old food cause we will have to start over with the chicken part so you think i should go straight to venison from fish/and continue trial. he only been on fish since Monday. he still has 3 days before he goes totally off old food. itching still. but too soon to tell anyway. takes 4 weeks they say and should start to decrease in itch at 2 weeks. i also rem i had stanley steamer in 2 months ago and i wonder????? i had it sprayed with the stain protector too.


it takes 12 weeks to know if food allergy not 4 weeks. Venison and sweet potato is a good one as well but keep in mind nb food has flaxseed oil in it and some allergy dogs are allergic to flaxseed as mine is and cannot eat that food.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

Snowbody said:


> Kandis - unfortunately I'm better with people food allergy than dog. Especially with young dogs you're supposed to intro foods gradually so each change should be subtle. If a couple of meals a day maybe one with new food or a portion of old and new. I saw the odor post by you and Tyler has a little gas occasionally but nothing that bad. I don't feed him much fish because of my DS's allergy to fish.
> I'm wondering about the carpet cleaning though. With DSs allergies and mainly asthma I was told never to steam clean a carpet, ever. It increases the chance of mold and mildew and I think the moisture can breed mites especially since mites are killed with high temp drying. I only have wood floors and area rugs in my house for that reason. So that could trigger allergies as well as who knows what chemicals are in the stain protector. I think that could well be your culprit more than anything.


this is what I have read as well the mold mostly as have not read about the mites


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> UPDATE: I just called Stanley steamer and they said i had no stain protector, just a deodorizer at the end. Sorry Starsmom. I thought it was the other stuff. anyway they will come TOMM AM and clean it with _water only_ for 150.00. but they steam I guess I will call another carpet company for non steam or just get my den carpet pulled up and put laminate down like the kitchen is. he is shaking head and sneezing today ALOT. I just put med in ears??? I bought NAT BALANCE DUCK/no grain food, he was on it before. not his fav, but easiest to switch to. He is going to the vet for blood work Monday. I feel so bad bec I can't help him. :angry::angry: i WANT TO CRY!
> 
> OH I FORGOT: Was cleaned 08/14 , he started this mid October I think. too long?


did he itch on the duck as sometimes duck being in the poultry family can be a problem and why it has to be a novel protein he has never eaten before and you have to be strict for 12 weeks. If you jump around you will not be able to tell and you will run out of proteins to use and you will not know if food allergy or not


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> did he itch on the duck as sometimes duck being in the poultry family can be a problem and why it has to be a novel protein he has never eaten before and you have to be strict for 12 weeks. If you jump around you will not be able to tell and you will run out of proteins to use and you will not know if food allergy or not



Hi, I cant remember if he did. I don't rem when it started exactly. Was kinda a slow thing that errupted mid Oct. So I have started over slowly to the Potato & Venison only for 12 weeks. No grain/poultry. And he will get nothing else to eat.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> the only prob to be aware of is one allergy issue is to mold and if they over saturate the carpet and do not get it really dry that is something to be of concern with so always best to do this in the summer when it is really hot and the carpet will dry fast.


They did get it really dry state and it is dry this am totally. They did an allergy clean.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

also, i kept him on the wood floors till it was dry this am.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> did he itch on the duck as sometimes duck being in the poultry family can be a problem and why it has to be a novel protein he has never eaten before and you have to be strict for 12 weeks. If you jump around you will not be able to tell and you will run out of proteins to use and you will not know if food allergy or not


wanted to say thanks for all the reminders. a lot to keep up with. your tile is so pretty. i prob end up with wood in my major room den area. where he lives mostly.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Sammie on his Venison/non grain and he wants it only, pushes the old food to the side, but I leave it and he eats it later tonite for dinner. And we are weaning off old food slow. I meas a week out in baggies as someone suggested. He seems a little better today with a warm bath (new hypo shampoo) last night. Not shaking head as much yesterday or this am. I know it will take2 months to see a difference that lasts, (if at all) just wanted to thank all for your input. Prob going to get the wood extended into my big den where he stays 90 time, I wanted it anyway.
xoxoxo


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ears are better as far as shaking. 3 days to go will be all venison, no grains.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Good going. Hope he continues to improve.:chili:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Good going. Hope he continues to improve.:chili:


Sue,
It was SO:crying: hard to watch him suffer. He is not perfect yet, and I want to give it time with the food. Boy it's hard not to run to the Vet for a quick solution. Reading what Allie went through helped me to keep it in perspective. That is our worst fear.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

This is a ticker test.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Good going. Hope he continues to improve.:chili:



I finally got the ticker down. I was pasting in the wrong place. Duh!:w00t:


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> Sammie on his Venison/non grain and he wants it only, pushes the old food to the side, but I leave it and he eats it later tonite for dinner. And we are weaning off old food slow. I meas a week out in baggies as someone suggested. He seems a little better today with a warm bath (new hypo shampoo) last night. Not shaking head as much yesterday or this am. I know it will take2 months to see a difference that lasts, (if at all) just wanted to thank all for your input. Prob going to get the wood extended into my big den where he stays 90 time, I wanted it anyway.
> xoxoxo


yeah we did that rippped out all carpeting went laminate, tile and hardwood and it helped alot.

Glad he is feeling a little better. It will take 12 weeks of being strict to know if food or not so hang in there.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> wanted to say thanks for all the reminders. a lot to keep up with. your tile is so pretty. i prob end up with wood in my major room den area. where he lives mostly.


good idea 

when i was looking into hard floors vs carpet there was controversy over that for allergies as some say the hard floors the dust is right there where as with carpet it gets down below the surface. The roomba does help and I just looked into the hypoallergenic oreck vacuum this week as before the carpet upstairs was too thick and oreck did not work but they came out with a better vacuum now so thinking of getting that now.

I will say if not food allergy and an easy fix it is going to be a constant battle to keep him comfortable but hopefully with all we posted you will get him to a good place as I finally have my dee dee but it was not fun figuring all this stuff out on my own going from vet to specialists, etc before I knew about groups  as this would have helped alot to narrow things down much faster.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Hi, he is doing a little better with the (scatch ear/lick paws thing). Not gone totally for sure. Shakes head still. He is on all Venison now. I am praying it is the grains. I am wanting to have him checked for yeast. Vet has done no testing on him, just visual exams on ears feet. oh, I bought the Oreck Sig II last weekend. I love it. 

THINGS I DO KNOW:
1) I will know more when food trial over (if it's grass or air) 
2) Bath helps a lot. 






dwerten said:


> good idea
> 
> when i was looking into hard floors vs carpet there was controversy over that for allergies as some say the hard floors the dust is right there where as with carpet it gets down below the surface. The roomba does help and I just looked into the hypoallergenic oreck vacuum this week as before the carpet upstairs was too thick and oreck did not work but they came out with a better vacuum now so thinking of getting that now.
> 
> I will say if not food allergy and an easy fix it is going to be a constant battle to keep him comfortable but hopefully with all we posted you will get him to a good place as I finally have my dee dee but it was not fun figuring all this stuff out on my own going from vet to specialists, etc before I knew about groups  as this would have helped alot to narrow things down much faster.


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

Kandis, tried sending you a PM, but your profile doesn't allow for PM's :huh:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

starsmom said:


> kandis, tried sending you a pm, but your profile doesn't allow for pm's :huh:


try it now! Should work.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

4EVERAPUP said:


> Hi, he is doing a little better with the (scatch ear/lick paws thing). Not gone totally for sure. Shakes head still. He is on all Venison now. I am praying it is the grains. I am wanting to have him checked for yeast. Vet has done no testing on him, just visual exams on ears feet. oh, I bought the Oreck Sig II last weekend. I love it.
> 
> THINGS I DO KNOW:
> 1) I will know more when food trial over (if it's grass or air)
> 2) Bath helps a lot.


glad bath helped 

yes you have to rule food out first as if he is in the 10% with food allergies then you are lucky If ear issues many times it is food related if they are getting ear infections alot and yeast related. 

How is he doing today?


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

dwerten said:


> glad bath helped
> 
> yes you have to rule food out first as if he is in the 10% with food allergies then you are lucky If ear issues many times it is food related if they are getting ear infections alot and yeast related.
> 
> How is he doing today?


Not good. Same. Lots shaking. Vet appt mon. ??? Don't know 
What to say.


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