# Thinking About Breeding Your Maltese



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

This is a must-read IMO for anyone thinking of breeding their Maltese. It's from Silkness Maltese. http://maltesepuppies.info/

THINGS TO THINK ABOUT BEFORE BREEDING YOUR DOG



It is extremely important to learn the facts and possible consequences in advance if you are contemplating breeding your dog. In today's overcrowded world, we, the wardens of our domestic pets, must make responsible decisions for them and for ourselves. The following points should be reviewed carefully. 

QUALITY
AKC REGISTRATION (OR ANY OTHER REGISTRY) IS NOT AN INDICATION OF
QUALITY! 
Most dogs, even purebreds, should not be bred. Many dogs, though wonderful pets, have defects of structure, personality or health that should not be reproduced. Breeding animals should be proven free of these defects before starting on a reproductive career. If you do not know what these defects are that we are talking about, you should not be breeding. Breeding should only be done with the goal of improvement - an honest attempt to create puppies better than their parents. Ignorance is no excuse - once you have created a life, you can't take it back, even if blind, crippled or a canine psychopath! 

COST
Dog breeding is not a money-making proposition if done correctly. Health care and shots, diagnosis of problems and proof of quality, extra food, facilities, stud fees, advertising, etc, are all costly and must be paid before the pups can be sold. An unexpected c-section for the mother, or emergency intensive care for a sick pup, will make a break-even litter become a big liability. And this is if you can sell the pups. 

SALES
First time breeders have no reputation and no referrals to help them find buyers. Previous promises of "I want a dog just like yours" evaporate. Consider the time and expense of caring for pups that may not sell until four months, eight months or older! What would you do if your pups did not sell? Send them to the pound? Dump them in the country? Sell them cheap to a dog broker who may resell them to labs to be experimented on or other unsavory buyers ? Remember YOU are responsible for these puppy's future. 


JOY OF BIRTH
If you're doing it for the children's education, remember the birth may be at three a.m. or at the vet's on the surgery table. Even if the kiddies are present, they may get a chance to see the birth of a deformed or dead puppy, or watch the bitch scream and bite you as you attempt to deliver a pup that is half out and too large. Some bitches are not natural mothers and either ignore or kill their puppies. Bitches can have severe delivery problems or even die in whelp; pups can be born dead or with gross deformities that require euthanasia. Of course, there can be joy, but if you can't deal with the possibility of tragedy, don't start. 

TIME
Veteran breeders of quality dogs state they spend well over 130 hours of labor in raising an average litter. That is over two hours per day, every day! The bitch cannot be left alone while whelping and only for a short period of time the first few days. Be prepared for days off work and sleepless nights. Even after delivery, Mom needs care and feeding, puppies need daily checking, weighing, socialization and later grooming and training and the whelping box needs lots and lots of cleaning. More hours are spent doing paperwork, pedigrees and interviewing buyers. If you have any abnormal conditions such as sick puppies or a bitch who can't and won't care for her babies, count on double to triple the time. If you can't provide the time, you will either have dead pups or poor ones that are bad tempered, antisocial, dirty and/or sickly - hardly a puppy that will be attractive to a buyer- at any price. 

HUMANE RESPONSIBILITIES
It's midnight - do you know where your puppies are? There are THREE-AND-A HALF MILLION unwanted dogs put to death in this country each year, with millions more dying homeless and unwanted through starvation, disease, automobiles, abuse, etc. Nearly a quarter of the victims of this unspeakable tragedy are pure-bred dogs with papers. The breeder who creates life is responsible for that life. Will you carefully screen potential buyers? Or will you just take the money and not worry if the puppy is chained in a junkyard all of its life, or runs in the street to be killed? Will you turn down a sale to irresponsible owners? Or will you say "yes" and not think about the puppy you held and loved now having a litter of mongrels every time she comes in heat, filling the pounds with more statistics - your grand-pups? Would you be prepared to take back a grown puppy if the owners can no longer care for it? Or can you live with the thought that the baby you helped bring into the world will be destroyed at the pound? 

CONCLUSION
Because of these facts, dog breeding is best left to the professional breeder. In fact, NO REPUTABLE BREEDER WILL SELL A PUPPY AS A PET WITHOUT A SPAY-NEUTER CONTRACT !!!


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> This is a must-read IMO for anyone thinking of breeding their Maltese. It's from Silkness Maltese. http://maltesepuppies.info/
> 
> THINGS TO THINK ABOUT BEFORE BREEDING YOUR DOG
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> ...


This is great information; however, this information belongs to Silkess Maltese, and I would suggest you ask permission to copy/paste it here.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> This is great information; however, this information belongs to Silkness Maltese, and I would suggest you ask permission to copy/paste it here.[/B]


i thought if you credited the author and provided a link it was acceptable to display the information..?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

There is no copyright information or any other disclaimer about not reprinting without permission on the Silkness website. In fact, I believe that I have seen this list on other websites. You can tell it's generic, not Maltese-specific.

I believe it's okay to just cite the source, but if Joe has a problem with it, I will certainly remove it.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> There is no copyright information or any other disclaimer about not reprinting without permission on the Silkness website. In fact, I believe that I have seen this list on other websites. You can tell it's generic, not Maltese-specific.
> 
> I believe it's okay to just cite the source, but if Joe has a problem with it, I will certainly remove it.[/B]



Marj,
I posted what I did because I know that some people are sensitive about people taking things from their website. I'm just going by what I hear from others who have had it done to them. I would just think it is common courtesy to ask the author, since she is a fellow Maltese person. By the way, it's Silkess who has it in their website. I don't know Silkness Maltese. Who are they?


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## Circe's Mommy (Jul 8, 2006)

Marj,

Whether the info came from you or a web site it is A+ to me. Yes, I have and am considering breeding my gilr when she hits about 2 years old, she is currently 6mo. I would probably only do it once. I am willing to take on the cost and responsibility. I will keep the pups if I can even sell them due to my nature, I will probaly fall in love with them and want to keep them! I will continue to do my research before I do anything. I have plenty of time between now and then. I will take all steps necessary and do all my homework before hand.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=220651
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Cindy Guarino is right here in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. She mainly shows and breeds a very limited amount of puppies. I only see puppies available on her website maybe once every year or two, but she may have more that are waitlisted and already spoken for. Her Maltese appear to have very nice pedigrees, a lot of Marcris and Tamar dogs.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=220660
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I think the main thing people get upset about when material is lifted from their site, is when it is not credited and is used as if it is someone's original thoughts. Yes, you may get a snippy hothead from time to time, but most people are glad to have important info like that shared with others as long as it is credited. It is not being used for profit or on a for-profit Web site. There is no financial gain for anyone. Again, I cannot imagine a reasonable person having a problem with what Marj posted, since it is positive publicity for the Web site and there's a link to take people there.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

Marj,

I think the confusion is just a typo in your original post. I admire you for being able to type at all, with what you have been through. The site you are quoting from does belong to Cindy, but it is Silkess, and not Silkness. You are probably still a better typer (Is there such a word?) than I am uninjured.


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

> I think the main thing people get upset about when material is lifted from their site, is when it is not credited and is used as if it is someone's original thoughts. Yes, you may get a snippy hothead from time to time, but most people are glad to have important info like that shared with others as long as it is credited. It is not being used for profit or on a for-profit Web site. There is no financial gain for anyone. Again, I cannot imagine a reasonable person having a problem with what Marj posted, since it is positive publicity for the Web site and there's a link to take people there.[/B]


I agree. Anyone who is responsible enough to put that information on their web page is certainly not going to mind someone else passing that information on to educate others. Reputable breeders want to be sure everyone knows how to breed responsibly. They want to protect their breed so will spread the word and wouldn't mind someone else doing the same. 

Thanks for posting this Marj.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Great post Marj!!


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## PreciousPrince (Feb 27, 2006)

Thanks Marj--it's just too bad that there are so many irresponsible breeders out there. I got Perri from someone I *now* know is a BYB, and would give her precious little Malts to anyone. I came across a woman at the feed store in my town who I found had one of Perri's brothers. Perri was with me, and she commented on how nice he looked, ect.. and then said that hers is all scruffy because he's a "barn dog and runs around in the woods all day" ! ! I just felt so bad for it! Little Malts aren't meant to be barn dogs--and this one is and isn't taken care of because our "breeder" could care less!


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## mimi2 (Mar 29, 2005)

Completely agree with the statement!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

All you have to do is go to petfinder.com and search for available Maltese to see how many Maltese are no longer in their original home. That's why a responsible breeder has in her contract that a dog must be returned if for any reason during the dog's life the person can no longer keep it. 

I know some people are put off by the "third degree" they get from some breeders as propective buyers, but it just proves what a good breeder that is. These breeders just want to make sure that not one of their precious babies ends up being a barn dog.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> All you have to do is go to petfinder.com and search for available Maltese to see how many Maltese are no longer in their original home. That's why a responsible breeder has in her contract that a dog must be returned if for any reason during the dog's life the person can no longer keep it.
> 
> I know some people are put off by the "third degree" they get from some breeders as propective buyers, but it just proves what a good breeder that is. These breeders just want to make sure that not one of their precious babies ends up being a barn dog.[/B]



I'm on a site with now over 700 breeders, and many of them are show breeders. There has been a recent discussion about a dog that was to be returned. I was surprised that many do not offer any refund to return the pup. Some offered a percentage of the orignial price, and some offered to refund money for whatever the pup was sold to the next person, minus a fee for rehoming it. Some took the pup back for no money. Only one person said they would refund the orignial price, but that was after oen month of having the pup, and it wasn't a good fit. 

As puppy buyers, it might be interesting to see what opinions some of you have on this. Did you assume the breeder would give all the money back, a part of it, or some other option?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I've never heard of a contract that promises a refund if the dog was returned either, just a written guarentee from the buyer that the puppy would be returned if they could no longer kept it.

It will be interesting to get some feedback from recent puppy buyers about what their contract says.

Here's a contract from Foxstone Maltese:

http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/petcontract.htm


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I would never expect to get my money back on a dog that I didn't want to keep, unless it had a health problem, or unless I had a prior arrangement with the breeder that the dog was coming to my home on a trial basis. Sadie's breeder contract was that if I didn't want to keep her I must return her to the breeder to be adopted to another home. Tammy's contract for Hope doesn't mention that part at all. When we got Sassy, Janet and I had a verbal agreement that if Sassy didn't fit into our home that she would take her back and give me a full refund. 

I would expect a breeder to stand behind a dog that had a major, congenital health problem within the first 6 months to a year.


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## mimi2 (Mar 29, 2005)

The contract I signed only said that we would have to contact her first if we could no longer keep our girls, I feel the same as msmagnolia, I wouldn't expect money back unless there was a major problem. But even then I don't think I'd be able to give the baby back, I'd do whatever it took to help it.


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## Laceys mom (Nov 12, 2004)

If I can't keep Lacey she goes back to the breeder. The breeder sold Lacey to me, not my husband but has agreed that if something happens to me he can keep her. I have told my husband that if he cannot take care of Lacey (bathing, grooming, feeding certain foods) then she is to go back to the breeder. My breeder will not refund any money, but will either keep Lacey or find her a good home. I know my breeder well enough to know that she would do what is best for Lacey. I have had Lacey now for 2 years and we are still in weekly contact...email. I let her know how Lacey is. She calls Lacey "our girl" and loves to hear/read about her and if I have any questions or concerns she is always offering helpful advice.


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## Teddyandme (Feb 6, 2005)

I know we talk about responsible breeders but I will say we must start asking if we are responsible pet owners. I know that if I ever purchase another maltese I will get one from a responsible breeder or rescue...and if I do get from a breeder I would never expect a refund if the breeder must take my dog back into her home. 

Now, I am thinking that if this happened it would be because of an emergency...I die, or am incompacitated beyond function and knowing that a breeder would take excellent care of my baby to me would be a reason to go to that breeder in the first place. 

As responible owners we must start thinking of the pet....I know that I have made arrangements for Teddy but the what if still worries me. I look at the breeder who will love them enough to take them back as a gift to really be thankful for not as a bad thing. 

Many people feel this is an intrusion but I feel it is love

Marj - it is so nice to have you back and helping us be better pet owners.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

If I were a breeder I would have that in my conract, too.... that the ownership of the Malt could not be transferred from the original owner and if the owner could not keep him/her, then he/she would have to be returned to me and no refund given to anyone.

After all, what is the point of a breeder's interviewing a buyer if that buyer could turn around and re-sell or give the Malt to someone the breeder would never have approved.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

> As puppy buyers, it might be interesting to see what opinions some of you have on this. Did you assume the breeder would give all the money back, a part of it, or some other option?[/B]


I think this really depends on the situation. Let me play out some scenarios:

1) Pet Puppy was not a good fit personality wise. The breeder is not obligated to refund any money but a good breeder may consider trading for another pup. Alternatively, I think it is still fair for the breeder to sell the pup and refund the money she gets minus any expenses. However, I don't think the breeder is obligated to do that.

2) Pet Puppy was not in good health and proven to have a genetic illness or life threathening disease. The breeder should refund the puppy for the full purchase price and take back the puppy. If they agree that the owner will keep the puppy, the breeder should provide a partial refund to deal with the vet bills. The breeder should not be obligated to refund or pay for the vet bills for an amount greated than the purchase price.

3) Pet Puppy dies of a genetic illness at a young age (2 or 3 years of age?). The breeder should offer a credit on a future puppy. The credit may be equal or less than the purchase price of the original puppy.

4) Show Puppy that has no disqualifying confirmation faults. The Show Puppy is unable to finish due to behavioural issues. The breeder is not obligated to provide a refund or exchange since this may be a training or upbringing issue. I think it is hard to judge if the problem was caused by the breeder or the new owner. A nice breeder may offer a partial refund and allow the owner to use the girl as a broad bitch. If this problem is recognized within 1 month and if the puppy was sold at 6 months or older, the breeder may consider taking back the puppy and providing a refund minue expenses. If the problem is recognized after 1 or more months and if the puppy was sold at 6 months or older, I don't feel the breeder is obligated to provide any refunds.

5) Show Puppy that has disqualifying confirmation faults. The breeder should exchange the puppy for a show dog with no disqualifying confirmation faults. Alternatively, the breeder may chose to refund the puppy minus expenses.


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## thelittlepet (Apr 18, 2006)

As far as my contract, we are not to ever sell sell our pups or rehome them. However, in the event of our untimely death(both of us) our breeder was aware before the signing of the contract that one of the references she called will be taking our dogs. The pups are now spayed/neutered and of course so is Gidget and this friend of mine has been a part of my life longer than my husband. Along with the dogs comes our entire estate. This friend is a vet also and is acutely aware of the way in which our pets live, as hers live that way also. Our estate includes life insurance in the event of our untimely deaths to make caring for and continuing to spoil our babies easy. So while I beleive her contract states in general for them to come back to her, she is aware that ours in an emergency such as both of our deaths would not. Other than that, we have made sure that there would never be a reason they could not be with one of us. The idea that someone would resell a dog still sickens me to the core. Sorry rambling.
Aimee


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

Just to make sure, I called Cindy this afternoon and she gives full permission to anybody to reprint this information on any website, so long as they aren't publishing it for their own financial gain or trying to say they wrote it themselves. She said that with the exception of the photos on her site, everything she puts there is for other people to share with other people - as some guessed, her biggest concern is getting the information out to as many people as possible.

But "HappyB" I am very concerned with copyright laws and making sure that nobody's rights are infringed upon, and so I think it was very responsible and considerate of you to raise the awareness of copyright laws because they are there for a reason. So good on you.







It's a common misperception that as long as you credit the author you can reproduce entire articles without the author's express permission, and that is important information for anyone who posts stuff in public forums to know because copyright violations are the kinds of things that can get website owners in trouble ... and we don't want to give our benevolent webmaster any more legal headaches over this forum.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

> Just to make sure, I called Cindy this afternoon and she gives full permission to anybody to reprint this information on any website, so long as they aren't publishing it for their own financial gain or trying to say they wrote it themselves. She said that with the exception of the photos on her site, everything she puts there is for other people to share with other people - as some guessed, her biggest concern is getting the information out to as many people as possible.
> 
> But "HappyB" I am very concerned with copyright laws and making sure that nobody's rights are infringed upon, and so I think it was very responsible and considerate of you to raise the awareness of copyright laws because they are there for a reason. So good on you.
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> ...


How old are you???







You seem very wise...








Andrea~


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

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Thank you Andrea. I am 28. Aren't you 28, too?

~ Lucie


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## Deanna (Jan 14, 2005)

Ladysmom,

It is so wonderful having you back! As always a very informative post! 

Thank you!


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

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NOOOOOO! LOL.. I am 36..I'm old...LOL

Andrea~


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> Just to make sure, I called Cindy this afternoon and she gives full permission to anybody to reprint this information on any website, so long as they aren't publishing it for their own financial gain or trying to say they wrote it themselves. She said that with the exception of the photos on her site, everything she puts there is for other people to share with other people - as some guessed, her biggest concern is getting the information out to as many people as possible.
> 
> But "HappyB" I am very concerned with copyright laws and making sure that nobody's rights are infringed upon, and so I think it was very responsible and considerate of you to raise the awareness of copyright laws because they are there for a reason. So good on you.
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Actually Internet copyright law is not really one size fits all. There is something called "fair use" and also the nature of the material being quoted comes in to play ... Is it fiction or fact? Has it been published? Factual material is often considered "fair use". 

I think there is a humongous difference in a guy taking a story from Time Magazine and putting it up in its entirety on his own web site called, "The News of the Day", for example, and calling it his own as contrasted with posting on a non-commercial site such as SM medical information on how a dog can contract Parvo and giving full credit. I cannot imagine Marvistavet.com, for example, obtaining an attorney and suing SM because of something innocuous like that. What would be their damages? 

I'm all for protecting copyrights... I'm my company's liaison to our trademark attorney to obtain trademarks and copyrights and right now there is a competing web site that has one of our pictures on their site. And when I see things like that I feel like I've been kicked in the stomach. But, frankly, all we'll do is send an email telling them to remove it. If they don't, then our attorney will send a "cease and desist" letter. And then if they still don't remove it, we'll have to decide if a lawsuit is worth the expense and our time, etc. Yet we have seen our photos and Web site copy on bulletin boards where people are showing others the products they have bought from our company and we love those "infringements."


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

> Actually Internet copyright law is not really one size fits all. There is something called "fair use" and also the nature of the material being quoted comes in to play ... Is it fiction or fact? Has it been published? Factual material is often considered "fair use".
> 
> I think there is a humongous difference in a guy taking a story from Time Magazine and putting it up in its entirety on his own web site called, "The News of the Day", for example, and calling it his own as contrasted with posting on a non-commercial site such as SM medical information on how a dog can contract Parvo and giving full credit. I cannot imagine Marvistavet.com, for example, obtaining an attorney and suing SM because of something innocuous like that. What would be their damages?
> 
> I'm all for protecting copyrights... I'm my company's liaison to our trademark attorney to obtain trademarks and copyrights and right now there is a competing web site that has one of our pictures on their site. And when I see things like that I feel like I've been kicked in the stomach. But, frankly, all we'll do is send an email telling them to remove it. If they don't, then our attorney will send a "cease and desist" letter. And then if they still don't remove it, we'll have to decide if a lawsuit is worth the expense and our time, etc. Yet we have seen our photos and Web site copy on bulletin boards where people are showing others the products they have bought from our company and we love those "infringements."[/B]


Actually, copyright law is copyright law. There is no separate "internet copyright law." There is only copyright law. It's not correct to state "Factual Material is often considered "fair use." Facts themselves are not subject to copyright whereas a unique presentation of the facts could be covered under copyright even though the facts themselves are not.

It's pretty simple really if one wants to honor copyright laws. If you are not the author of the material nor the holder of the copyright, you cannot reproduce someone elses intellectual property in the form of a photograph, or if it's a written composition you may not reproduce it (although you may have quotes here and there for "fair use" discussion purposes) in whole or in part without the express consent of the holder of the copyright (usually the author).

It does not matter if you put a link to the site you copied it from.
It does not matter if you credit the author for writing it.
It does not matter if you aren't reproducing it for financial gain.

What matters is, "Do you have the authors express consent to reproduce his or her intellectual property?"

Those are the laws and doing anything against them is breaking copyright laws, and be advised that courts have held that you did not have to intend any harm to be found in violation of the laws. 

But don't take my word for it. Go to a much more reliable source of information on the topic: http://www.copyright.gov/

It really takes two minutes most times to contact the author and make sure you have permission to reproduce their work in part or in whole, even if you give them credit and even if you put a link to their website. It's basic respect for other human beings.


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## Carole (Nov 1, 2005)

Good for Cindy







for getting the word out on what a HUGE RESPONSIBILITY it is to take on breeding two animals together. I thought the article was perfectly written! It amazes me that there are people who can read such a page as that about what it means to breed their pet...(even a poster now and then on S. M.)...and still they don't "get it"!









As for my contracts. Both my girls have different breeders...Pashes and Divine....both my girls are to be returned to their *first mom* if for any reason this mom can no longer care for them. That would NEVER happen unless I truly was ill and incapable of caring for them.







....Knowing they would have love and care in being re-homed if something did happen to me and my husband is a huge relief to my mind. I would never in a zillion years







expect to be refunded monies if my breeders had to help us out of a difficult situation. 

~Carole, Bella, and Krista~


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=221549
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LOL, I realize there is not a separate _Interent_ copyright law... but since the subject at hand was _Internet _ use, I did my research and phrased my post in that context.


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

> [
> LOL, I realize there is not a separate _Interent_ copyright law... but since the subject at hand was _Internet _ use, I did my research and phrased my post in that context.[/B]


I am sorry, Kallie/Catcher's Mom, for including that statement in my post. It was unnecessary to the substance of the discussion, and probably came across as overly petty or even catty to some people as well. Again, I apologize for having said, that and I hope you won't hold it against me in any future interactions. 

Mea culpa!


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