# What is the average 6 mo. old Maltese male like?



## Katzie (Jul 18, 2010)

Maybe *I* am the one who has been spoiled up till a few days ago. Kirby's 6 mo. birthday was Saturday and every single one of his adult teeth have come in and he's so bitey now.

We have had a nice little schedule going for the last month. He would take an afternoon nap in his crate for four hours, then get up for dinner and spend a total of 3 hours up then take another 3 hour nap and get up at 10pm to go potty and spend a little time with my son when he got home from work and go to bed at 11:30. He has not had one single accident in his crate for over a month and other then him biting everything especially me, life has been great.

Well, as of a few days ago he shortened his first nap to 2-3 hours....ok...I can deal with that, no problem...although it makes my trying to get out and get stuff done harder, but I figured if I was out he'd stay in longer since he was used to 4 hours. Then 2 days ago he gave up his evening nap. I try to put him in the crate and before I can even shut the door he bolts. Then when I pick him up to carry him to the crate he climbs up on my shoulder and he holds on for dear life. So, ok.....I'm not going to make him anxious and I let him stay out of the crate. He will dose off around 7pm which lasts as long as everyone in the house remains still and quiet...so about 5 mins. Honestly, I don't have a problem with him transitioning to being out of the crate all day and taking cat naps here and there as long as he gets a good night sleep. My concern is for his health. Since he is still a puppy he still should be getting around 14 hours sleep a day which he is not now. So, should I be forcing those naps on him????

Now my next big problem is that some time during that horrible heat in July I was not as diligent in bringing Kirby out a lot to go potty because I have health issues and the heat was just knocking me out. I can't use wee wee pads because he rips them into shreads. So, I have Pergo flooring all thru my downstairs and if he went it's easy to clean up. Once the weather was a little better I started working real hard on getting him out a lot and he was doing so good for about 3 days in a row until today. Today we spent a ton of time out side while he did nothing and then came in the house and went. I yell no, I take him out and he's distracted with the sticks he wants and once again doesn't go potty. I feel like my being very lax those 3 weeks messed him up and now he doesn't know what I want. We're suppose to get another heat wave next several days so that doesn't help. There has to be an alternative for him to go inside on something other then a pee pee pad. Any suggestions would be so appreciated.

As for his biting me. I grab him by the scruff of the neck and say no and he just looks at me like....pleeeeasse.......and goes right back to biting. I say no very loud and sternly, stops him for about a minute. Then when he keeps pushing it, I put him on his back in the submissive position and tell him in no uncertain terms is biting acceptable. That will keep him from biting for a little while all though he might try to mouth.

Other then that he's good at being trained. He has been playing fetch for 2 months. He has learned "leave it", sit, stay, down.....still working on come. He's bright and he can learn a lot, I think it's me who needs to go to obedience school.

So, please do share your stories about your 6 mon old Fluffs and those who have survived this phase, please tell me when it gets better cause I really need some encouragement now. This is THE MOST difficult breed I have ever raised. I had 7 dogs prior to this and puppyhood was a breeze. Housebreaking was easy, I don't ever remember being a chew toy for any puppy before. 

I know he's very HIGH energy and honestly if I knew what I was getting into at the time I may not have done it, so I'm thankful I went into this blindly. I do have complete faith that this will all work out with time and patience, I'm just feeling like I am being held prisoner right now by this little Fluff ball....LOL

Hope to hear some good stories about other Fluffs, thanks for listening to my rant!!!!!!!


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Great news for you....its pretty much all you! And YOU can change. 

1. Potty training
You have given him no consistency and no real reinforcement history. He hasn't a clue as to what you want. You need to set a schedule and stick with it. Take a timer outside with you and set it for 2 minutes. If he doesn't go back inside in the crate and try again in 20 minutes. When he does go praise and TREAT him immediately. Take him out on a leash so he can't wander and play. 
You yelling at him teaches him not to potty in front of you. This may be harming your attempts outdoors. If you are supervising your dog properly, you won't be having accidents. If he does have an accident, it is your fault for allowing him to run around when he hasn't gone potty - NOT his fault. Leashing him to you indoors can also prevent wandering off. 
Here is a link on potty training
House Training Puppies & Dogs. Easy Steps to Potty Training

2. Biting
Again, you've inadvertently encouraged his behavior. Grabbing your dog and manhandling him means one of two things:
A. You are rough housing and playing
So why wouldn't he come right back and keep at it? 
B. You are trying to KILL him
Dogs NEVER forcibly lay another dog out unless they are trying to KILL them. Dogs certainly roll over on their backs and offer this position up to other dogs to show their submission, but they are never placed in that position by another dog. There are a number of threads on dominance theory on the training board. Please take a read. The only thing you are communicating to your dog by doing this is that you are dangerous. 
The ideal thing to teach dogs is bite INHIBITION. This mean the dogs learns how much pressure he can put on skin with his mouth. Most young puppies respond very well if you yelp loudly when they bite too hard. When they mouth gently you praise. Once your dog has a good understanding, you can the gentle mouthing if you wish. For dogs past this point or who don't respond well to this, ending the game is very effective. One bite you yelp loudly, stand up and leave the room. You may need a baby gate so your pup can't follow you out. Wait a few minutes and return. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Play must NEVER continue if your pup bites. 
When ending a behavior, you typically notice great progress for a while. Then, all of the sudden it gets worse. This is normal. It is called an extinction burst. Stick to your guns. If you continue to follow through you will get through it and the behavior will end. 
If you never teach your dog to use their mouth gently do keep in mind they are missing a valuable skill. Dogs with good bite inhibition are much less likely to do harm with a bite than those without. Teaching your dog only never to bite would be bite prohibition. 

Sounds like your pup could use a lot more exercise. I would get up early in the morning and then later in the evening and take him for 2 good long walks every day. This will really help. Other ways to increase mental exercise are to give him his meals in food toys and for training sessions. Sign up for an obedience class. Play hide and seek with his food - keeping him out of a room and hide his kibble all over. Let him loose to find it. Find a playmate and have visits a couple times a week. Take a trip twice a week - a pet store, home depot, wherever - this will help tire him out and is an awesome opportunity to work on obedience in different locations.


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## Katzie (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my questions in detail, but I need to clarify some things.

1. Potty training - you are absolutely 100% correct that his problems are my fault. However, I have always ignored any accidents in the house and lots of times I haven't even seen him. I was advised by the Vet and the trainer that when I see him start to go to say NO and take him outside. So I just want to be absolutely clear on this, if I see him start to go inside do I ignore it and not say No? The use of the leash is an excellent idea. Actually, I had a pen built when I first got him because the backyard is just way too big and he was putting everything in his mouth. So, I used to just take him out to the pen and he'd go and then we'd go back inside. Once he became aware of my neighbors dogs he wouldn't go in the pen anymore, he'd just cry and cry and stand at the gate trying to get out into the yard. At first he would go while he was exploring the yard, it's only since his adult molars came in that he's back to picking up every stick and biting and he's not going consistently. 

2. Biting - I watch The Dog Whisperer all the time and I purchased his DVD for Puppies. He says when they bite to grab them by the scruff of the neck and say NO. My Vet told me to do that also, when I told her it didn't work she told me to put him into a submissive position and even showed me how to put him on his side and hold his legs that would be on the ground so he can't move(which I have never done). I called the trainer where he is going to go after he is neutered and he told me to do the same thing for biting and when I say biting I'm talking about hard biting that has broken the skin at times. I don't do anything when he is biting lightly or mouthing - I allow that and I do tell him good boy for doing it lightly. So, I'm confused now as to why all these trainers and the Vet would tell me to handle the hard biting the way they said, but you are saying I am trying to kill him doing that. Also, myself and my two children all have used the "yelp" when he first started doing the hard biting and it worked the first couple of times, but after that he ignores the yelp which is why I asked for help from the Vet and trainer and was told to do the other things.

He does get a lot of exercise, I do hide treats and food for him to find, he plays fetch very well. I work with him training him through out the day. I don't want you to think that I'm just letting him do whatever and not working with him. I have been limited with where I can take him because he just got his Rabies shot a couple of weeks ago and he still hasn't gotten the Bordetella shot and I am not sure if I want to do that. He had Kennel Cough very bad when I got him and he didn't get over it until a month ago. The Vet told me not to walk him cause he's a licker and not to bring him around other dogs. I have a groomer that comes to the house in a Van. I have very mixed feelings about the Bordetella vaccine and I will admit I am probably overly protective because of what I went through with my last dog being sick for 2 years and dying. I know that's outside the realm of animal behavior and that's something I have to deal with and it's compounded by the fact that my mother also died 11 days after my dog died. I'm only telling you this so you can have a better understanding of all the circumstances. I also have health problems that absolutely prohibits me from being out in the heat so even if Kirby didn't have his health problems I still wouldn't be able to walk him in this heat. 

Again, I really do appreciate any and all advise very much!!!!!!!
Oh, also, I had a baby gate and within 5 minutes he chewed a huge hole in it and got stuck in the hole. I had to purchase a very expensive gate for the stairs. We have been doing every 20 mins with his crate when it's his normal nap time and he still bolts. If I go upstairs and leave him alone he'll put himself in the crate but if we go downstairs he gets up. He never ever did this until his molars starting coming in, so I just thought he was uncomfortable and not wanting to be alone. I have never in my life ever crate trained a dog before so I haven't a clue as to if they transition to being out all day and just use it to sleep at night at some point. Also, the last puppy I had was 10 years ago and when I got him I already had a 3 yr old rescue who was completely trained, so she trained him and his disposition was waaaaaaay different, very low keyed compared to Kirby.


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## spookiesmom (Mar 28, 2010)

I don't believe in crates for too many reasons to go into here, but if I DID have one I'd leave the door open so she could come and go as she wanted and use it as a safe place for a nap.

Puppies are naturally nosey and do need to be watched. They need exposure to all kinds of stimulus. They cannot have a " strict" schedule like it sounds yours has. If he's tired, he will sleep.

Potty issues, watch his body language.

Alpha rolls, body rolls? No way. Just teaches fear, of YOU


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## uniquelovdolce (Mar 10, 2010)

i think the yelping when the puppy bites is the best solution n taking him to a time out in an xpen i dont like crate training at least not for me. dolce used to bite kind of hard i would yelp , say no n remove him n he knew if he would bite playtime was over. 

about potty training i think consistency is the key , try the wee wee pads again .. feed take him to pee pad , when he goes praise n treat , in the beginning i gave dolce a treat n lots of praise everytime he went.. 
and about sleep i used to worry that dolce wasnt getting enough sleep cause while we r home he will nap if we r sitting but as soon as anyone of us gets up , there he goes he is a follower n doesnt like to be alone if theres someone home.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Throw away The Dog Whisperer books, tapes, whatever. I would never in a million years pick up Tyler by the scruff of his neck. He's so happy to please me when I praise him that he does what I want 90% of the time. Milan's practices aren't the current way to reach dogs and certainly not our little guys and girls. Pick up Victoria Stillwell's" It's Me or the Dog" book for some info on teaching with incentives not punishment.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

1. Throw away everything by The Dog Whisperer.
2. Don't listen to anyone who tells you to use his methods.
3. Change the channel when his show comes on.


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## spookiesmom (Mar 28, 2010)

And find a new vet!


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

The above advice will certainly help you turn you & your dogs' behavior around. The Dog Whisperer methods are outdated and will actually harm the relationship you have with your dog. All they teach is how to make your dog fear you. Victoria Stillwell has wonderful methods of training which use positive reinforcement. I guarantee you that Kirby will improve in all ways if you use positive reinforcement. Ignore unwanted behaviors (to an extent), and reward for good behavior. It sounds like Kirby would really benefit from clicker & food reward training.

No biting is acceptable behavior in my house, that includes soft mouthing. Preston still occasionally will mouth my hands when playing (gently), but when he puts his mouth on me, play time is over -- immediately. I say "no bite" firmly but without yelling, stand up, and walk away. They learn that when they mouth, play time ends.

You've been given some great advice on potty training using a crate. Crate training is great for them and really helps them learn to potty on command. When he's running around the house, put a leash on him and if you cannot supervise him, he must go in his crate. We have one baby gate on our stairs, and chose to purchase a metal one vs a cheap wood one. It wasn't very expensive, only about $30 if that and it has the little door so you don't have to step over it.


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## Katzie (Jul 18, 2010)

I actually never even heard of The Dog Whisperer until I got Kirby and then everyone I know told me to watch him and he's so great and blah blah blah. I knew I should stick to my instincts which is to totally ignore negative behavior and reinforce positive behavior.:thumbsup: 

My Vet is not a trainer but she is an excellent Vet. She followed the one vaccine at a time and spaced out and she's the one who said to do it that way....I didn't know. She also didn't charge me for exams to do the vaccines spaced out and she clips his nails for free every visit. She helped me with so much when my last dog was so sick, we tried every holistic thing there was. She is the one who told me about home cooking and made me aware of how bad commercial food is, so I can't fault her.

I know that this too shall pass, Kirby is just an extremely high energy puppy. Honestly, it's like he has ADHD when he gets outside he is just so distracted by everything. I decided I'm going back to what worked and that's taking him out to the pen and rewarding him for going and ignoring accidents and all the people who criticize me for ignoring accidents. I actually had one guy say "you need to yell no and put his face in it"....I told him before I'd ever do that to a puppy I'd put HIS face in it....he didn't appreciate that....Oh well....LOL You have to remember I live at the Jersey Shore, have you seen the show??.....I'm just kidding, my mom used to refer to people here as clam diggers.....LOL:w00t:

As for the crate, I would have never in a million years got one. I raised 7 dogs prior to Kirby and never used a crate. I got it because my house was not puppy proof and I was not planning on getting a puppy and they said he needed to sleep a lot so I thought it would be a safe place to have him until I got my house puppy proof. The crate is really nice, it's not just some horrible cage...I'll put a picture. He loves to go in his crate to sleep. I never put him in if he doesn't go in himself, he willingly goes in every night to sleep and I tried to get him to sleep in his other beds or even on my bed and he just can't settle down yet at this time. I believe when he matures he'll sleep anywhere.

I wish I had a video of what he did to the baby gate. I put him in a room that was safe at that time, put the gate up and went to the bathroom. I was gone all of 5 minutes and when I came out he had chewed a big hole and he was literally stuck in the hole. I had that gate for over 15 years and used it for my last 2 dogs....so that should give you a better idea of how strong willed this little guy is. We don't call him The Kirbinator for no reason.:HistericalSmiley:I had to pay $89.00 for the gate for the stairs which is metal and has a door you open. I'd have to buy so many extensions to put him in the kitchen it would cost me hundreds of dollars because my kitchen is open into the family room, it's about 20 feet wide. I tried an xpen and he was out in less then 30 seconds. 

I really appreciate everyone's responses and thank you for letting me know that the Dog Whisperer is not the NEW fantastic method of training that everyone told me he was. I do watch Victoria Stillwell "It's Me or The Dog" all the time. I'll have to look for her book. 

LJSquishy - where did you get the gate for only $30-? Mine is made by Kidco and I bought it on line and comparison shopped for the lowest price which was $79- plus $10 for shipping. If I could get another one at that price then I could at least confine him to the Family room/Kitchen when needed.


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

This is the gate I have: Summit? Gate, Sandstone

I bought it at Walmart in the store...I don't think they have it online. I know 100% for sure it was under $40 but I'm still pretty sure I only paid about $30 tops for it. It's a tension gate so you don't have to drill into your walls which is great for me because we live in an old 1904 house where most of the house still has the lathe & plaster walls.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

If you did not witness the accident, then shame on you for not watching your pup. Clean it up and keep quiet. 
If you see him do it, interrupt him (just a perky "uh oh" is fine), and take him out. 
When you actually supervise 100% (and confine when not), you are very unlikely to have many accidents to deal with. 
I would take him out on a leash. Set your timer for 2 minutes. Back inside after that. If he doesn't go, back in confinement and repeat in 20 minutes. The first few times you may have a battle of the wills on your hands...but stick with it! 

I ask you this about the scruffing/holding him down. Has it worked? Has it solved your problem? 
If not, its a lesson in insanity to continue with something that doesn't work.
Ending the game is a very powerful message to a dog. A good leader controls the resources...and play is one of them. 

I've had a few psycho puppies in my home. The more brain work, the better behaved they were. I also found puppy agility an awesome way to work on self control with them.


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## poochie2 (Jan 14, 2010)

Oh wow lots of very good advice!
You may have a very playful puppy that needs a little direction but please, please DO NOT lay him on his back or or put him in awkward positions. That's just wrong !


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## Katzie (Jul 18, 2010)

jmm said:


> If you did not witness the accident, then shame on you for not watching your pup. Clean it up and keep quiet.
> If you see him do it, interrupt him (just a perky "uh oh" is fine), and take him out.
> When you actually supervise 100% (and confine when not), you are very unlikely to have many accidents to deal with.
> I would take him out on a leash. Set your timer for 2 minutes. Back inside after that. If he doesn't go, back in confinement and repeat in 20 minutes. The first few times you may have a battle of the wills on your hands...but stick with it!
> ...


Wow, am I the only one who ever had to use the bathroom, or answer the phone or the front door and do not have eyes in the back of my head so I didn't see him go???? When you say "confine" him if I can't have my eyes glued to him 100% of the time, are you saying I should force him into his crate, cause that is the only place he can be confined? He is a climber and he climbs up the fence of an xpen and out. Thank God I don't have chain link fence in the yard or he'd probably climb that too, although I am always with him in the yard, but just saying....he's one of the dogs you see on America's Funniest Video's where there are in a chain link pen and climb out. His outdoor pen I had custom made is picket fence with screening all the way around cause when it was first built he could fit between the pickets so we stapled screening all the way around and I put indoor/outdoor carpet on the deck and sprayed it with that stuff to makes them go potty. All day today when I saw him start to go I said "come on Kirby lets go out for potty" and he'd come and nothing, but I will persevere despite a very exhausting day that was completely unsuccessful. 

As for grabbing him away from biting my hand by the scruff of the neck saying no bite, it worked the first few times, then it didn't so I stopped. I put him in the submissive position 2 times after he bit me really hard each time and he did stop, but I don't like doing that which is why I was asking about this. Today we did very very well with me redirecting him and walking away when he persisted in trying to bite.....so this is a big help and I'm very thankful for the advise with that. 

I attempted to try the pee pee pads again and I will post pictures to show how that went. I put one down in the kitchen corner when he goes most of the time and he took it and ran with it into the living room and in less then 2 minutes he had it in countless pieces. 

I read somewhere else that at 6 months of age they are going through adolescence and even though he was getting the hang of going potty outside and was down to very few accidents and then reverted back to more accidents they said that would all get better as they mature and also after getting neutered. I know it will get better with time, patience, consistency and lots of praise.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Hi Kathy, 
Your kirby sounds like a little tornado! :w00t: It is amazing the kind of energy some of these guys have. I like a lot of the advice you have been given and I know you are working hard---bravo! Kirby is lucky to have you & you to have him. Believe me w/persistence things WILL get better. It does sound like he needs more exercise---have you thought of a treadmill or swimming w/him---something more fun for him & you! He definitely needs lots more exercise. Maybe you could get someone else to walk w/him a couple of times a day---someone who has small dogs maybe? We have excessive heat here in Athens and we only can walk at night at the moment---when the mosquitos who carry a deadly disease are out---but we are trying our best to wear Kitzel out---sometimes when we come home after an hour he does what we call "running fits" in the front grass. So much energy---thank God! He is our healthiest puppy EVER---of course our last few were rescues w/health issues so we feel especially blessed.
There is also a wee-pad holder you might try---kitzel used to tear up the pads too :smilie_tischkante:but he got over it (he is almost 6 months old too). I found the holder quite expensive for me so wanted to manage w/out it. Things in Greece are more costly than in the US though. Try on-line. 
I think Cesar Milan isn't ALL bad--but would NEVER use his methods w/small dogs. His speciality is LARGE, AGGRESSIVE BREEDS---and he does that well. Let's not throw the baby out w/the bath here.
Don't give up! hugs, sandi


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

I think the blatant statements about Cesar's program are ridiculous. People who have attached the holding a dog down or any other rough method he might have to use with an out of control, red zone huge animal to ALL his training--just have not watched many of the shows. He has small dogs in his home and treats them tenderly. I usually skip the shows where he is dealing with the large red zone dogs that everyone else has given up on, and watch stories that might have implications for me, since I don't have that kind of animal to deal with. 

I think this OP'er has gotten good info here other than those statements. In her case there are other books, etc. that would apply better than Cesar's, but an over all statement such as those made about him are just wrong.


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## bonsmom (Feb 22, 2010)

Hi Kathy,
Welcome to SM!
I will leave for the experts your other questions, but I can address the sleeping issues.
Rocco is also six months old and a ball of energy. We have an active household and he is awake most days from 5:30 a.m. till 9:00 p.m. He does take brief "cat naps" during this time, but nothing longer than 30 minutes or so. He has access to the outdoors and spends plenty of time playing there. He usually gets one or two walks of a few blocks each a day.
At nine he is asleep in his crate. He is happy to go there. He gets a quick break at two a.m., then it's back in the crate, where he doesn't make a peep till breakfast.
Maybe your pup would enjoy some chase the ball games indoors on the days it is too hot.
The good side of your problem is that he sounds very healthy!


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

My puppy is either being watched, leashed to me, or confined. Period. No exceptions. I don't turn my back. I pick up the pup and take it with me. So yes it can be done. I teach my dogs to go in the crate on cue so we don't have issues there. When in doubt leash the dog to you


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Furbaby's Mommie said:


> I think the blatant statements about Cesar's program are ridiculous. People who have attached the holding a dog down or any other rough method he might have to use with an out of control, red zone huge animal to ALL his training--just have not watched many of the shows. He has small dogs in his home and treats them tenderly. I usually skip the shows where he is dealing with the large red zone dogs that everyone else has given up on, and watch stories that might have implications for me, since I don't have that kind of animal to deal with.
> 
> I think this OP'er has gotten good info here other than those statements. In her case there are other books, etc. that would apply better than Cesar's, but an over all statement such as those made about him are just wrong.


I can't find a single behaviorist asked about the show before it aired that supported his methods. I've watched him get bit by small dogs. I've watched him hang them on leashes. And you won't find a veterinary behaviorist in the US supporting Milan's treatment of "red zone" dogs. Treating aggression with aggression breeds aggression. So I feel my "blatant" statement is right on and based on peer-reviewed research instead of one single person's unfounded ideas. The show doesn't say "don't try this at home" for nothing.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

jmm said:


> My puppy is either being watched, leashed to me, or confined. Period. No exceptions. I don't turn my back. I pick up the pup and take it with me. So yes it can be done. I teach my dogs to go in the crate on cue so we don't have issues there. When in doubt leash the dog to you


If my dogs get into something they are not supposed to or potty where they shouldn't, it is _my_ fault, not theirs.


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## uniquelovdolce (Mar 10, 2010)

i had to laugh at this pic .lol , i think u should re try the potty w supervision , put some of his urine on it n take it n say go pee pee , dolce now goes on cue most of the time. once we ran out of wee wee ads n we put down newspapers n he shredded it o bits , we put some of his pee on it n bingo he circled n circled until he went , and i would advice to get another gate n use it ... because he should not have free run of the house til he is at least 99 % potty trained , good luck its hard i know but perseverance is the key,.


Katzie said:


> Wow, am I the only one who ever had to use the bathroom, or answer the phone or the front door and do not have eyes in the back of my head so I didn't see him go???? When you say "confine" him if I can't have my eyes glued to him 100% of the time, are you saying I should force him into his crate, cause that is the only place he can be confined? He is a climber and he climbs up the fence of an xpen and out. Thank God I don't have chain link fence in the yard or he'd probably climb that too, although I am always with him in the yard, but just saying....he's one of the dogs you see on America's Funniest Video's where there are in a chain link pen and climb out. His outdoor pen I had custom made is picket fence with screening all the way around cause when it was first built he could fit between the pickets so we stapled screening all the way around and I put indoor/outdoor carpet on the deck and sprayed it with that stuff to makes them go potty. All day today when I saw him start to go I said "come on Kirby lets go out for potty" and he'd come and nothing, but I will persevere despite a very exhausting day that was completely unsuccessful.
> 
> As for grabbing him away from biting my hand by the scruff of the neck saying no bite, it worked the first few times, then it didn't so I stopped. I put him in the submissive position 2 times after he bit me really hard each time and he did stop, but I don't like doing that which is why I was asking about this. Today we did very very well with me redirecting him and walking away when he persisted in trying to bite.....so this is a big help and I'm very thankful for the advise with that.
> 
> ...


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

jmm said:


> I can't find a single behaviorist asked about the show before it aired that supported his methods. I've watched him get bit by small dogs. I've watched him hang them on leashes. And you won't find a veterinary behaviorist in the US supporting Milan's treatment of "red zone" dogs. Treating aggression with aggression breeds aggression. *So I feel my "blatant" statement* is right on and based on peer-reviewed research instead of one single person's unfounded ideas. The show doesn't say "don't try this at home" for nothing.


I wasn't aware you made any statement about Milan.

It is still my opinion that there are good tips from his shows.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

LOL I'm pretty open about my statement...I wouldn't let him touch my dog with a 10 foot pole and I would never use his methods on a dog of any size. 

Honestly I'm not sure why people think something as severe as physical manhandling is necessary much less ok for a dog of any size or shape. It always seems to me like saying no slapping your 2 year old, but slapping your obnoxious 14 year old child is ok. Either slapping is appropriate or its not....maybe I'm too black and white. 

I mean, how does anyone think this is ok? 




BTW, the dog isn't laying down in submission...it literally turned blue from being choked.


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## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

I am glad that I papertrained my [first] Maltese when he was a puppy. Didn't have to go out in pouring rain, or if I was sick myself, and it was especially good when in his old age he had surgery and also had to be on diuretics. Yes, he liked to play with the puppy pads when he was little. I used paper more at first and I taped the edges of the papers/pads down or weighted them down. And redirected him a more appropriate toy. 

For confinement, someone on this forum wrote about attaching a sheet of transparent vinyl or plexiglass? to a safety gate so the dog couldn't get a foothold to climb out. I thought that was a great idea! And while wondering if I could do that, I found a simple pressure-mounted safety gate at Petco that is made of translucent vinyl. I got one for my "mountaineering" rescue.  

I've been fairly successful in housebreaking/pad training some adult dogs. My theory is not to give them a chance to have an accident--and don't get too ssurprised--or angry-- when you do give them a chance and they do have an accident. 

If you have room, maybe you could get a slightly bigger vinyl crate you could pop him into to make sure he can't relieve himself inappropriately, and that would be easy to clean up if he does. (One of my males peed sideways out of a wire crate!)

There are also some barricades that stand up by themselves and can go across wide openings without needing a wall attachment.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

In my mind Jackie, having raised a couple of 2 yr.olds and 14 yr. olds--nothing I've ever seen Cesar do has anything to do with them. I stand by what I said--which in no way said anything about it being alright to be curel to an animal. Don't go so far off the deep end and put words in my mouth.
If you don't like Cesar it is fine with me, and my original post had nothing to do with anything you said since you posted about Cesar after I did.



jmm said:


> LOL I'm pretty open about my statement...I wouldn't let him touch my dog with a 10 foot pole and I would never use his methods on a dog of any size.
> 
> Honestly I'm not sure why people think something as severe as physical manhandling is necessary much less ok for a dog of any size or shape. It always seems to me like saying no slapping your 2 year old, but slapping your obnoxious 14 year old child is ok. Either slapping is appropriate or its not....maybe I'm too black and white.
> 
> ...


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## lovemylittleguy (Jul 30, 2010)

bellaratamaltese said:


> if my dogs get into something they are not supposed to or potty where they shouldn't, it is _my_ fault, not theirs.


amen


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

Furbaby's Mommie said:


> I think the blatant statements about Cesar's program are ridiculous. People who have attached the holding a dog down or any other rough method he might have to use with an out of control, red zone huge animal to ALL his training--just have not watched many of the shows. He has small dogs in his home and treats them tenderly. I usually skip the shows where he is dealing with the large red zone dogs that everyone else has given up on, and watch stories that might have implications for me, since I don't have that kind of animal to deal with.
> 
> I think this OP'er has gotten good info here other than those statements. In her case there are other books, etc. that would apply better than Cesar's, but an over all statement such as those made about him are just wrong.


I would never use a trainer that thinks that it is EVER appropriate to train a dog like he does the "red zone" dogs. If that is his only method of working with those dogs, then I don't care to see how he trains others. I do have a reactive dog and can't imagine what I would have ended up with if I used his methods. 

I have watched several of his shows and have never seen him do any training that I would do. I've seen him flood dogs, alpha roll, choke them, "dominate" them, etc... both big and small dogs. His methods (all of them) are outdated and should not be on TV - they simply set back dog training by decades and can cause harm to the dogs whose owners choose to watch his program. 

The only thing he says that I believe to be true is that dogs need exercise.

I do not think anything anyone posted about Cesar to be ridiculous - except buying his books, tapes, etc...


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## Katzie (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you all so much for all your input and advise. Today was a much much better day for Kirby. His impacted premolars came out and now he has all his adult molars with nothing in the way. He has just one retaining canine to be pulled when neutered on Aug. 24. 

I went back to what I did with him from the beginning and that's get him up, take him out to his pen instead of letting him loose in the yard. I wait for him to go potty and reward. I took him on 2 long walks around the back yard, he's still very distracted by twigs, egg corns, leaves, bugs.........he actually caught a fly in the air and ate it...I couldn't believe it, it was flying around by the sliding glass doors and he was like a fly trap....LOL :w00t: 

He doesn't have the full run of the house, my house is 2 stories and he is not allowed up stairs at all unless he is invited up and carried. He spends his time in the family room and kitchen and the way my house is there are no walls between the family room and kitchen, it's all open. I have walls/doors on the other rooms and the living room is only used when I'm in it. I have pergo flooring in the family room and tile in the kitchen. Due to my son's allergies all carpeting was removed from the house a long time ago. 

I was using white vinegar where he went after I cleaned, but all that did was make him sneeze, it never deterred him. Now I am using Nature's Miracle, but he still uses the same 2 spots. Is there a good safe product I can use that will work???? I am definitely going to try putting his urine on a pad....thanks for that idea!!! I have tried putting stuff down to hold the pad but he just pulled it up in the middle.

He actually put himself in his crate for his naps today, he went in for the first one around noon and after he settled I shut the door so I could go out and do errands. He put himself in again for his evening nap and again I shut the door with no problems so I could go upstairs and get some work done. I really think that his mouth was really bothering him, because it looked like the one premolar came out in pieces and there was some bleeding over the last couple of days, but now it's all gone :chili:

As for The Dog Whisperer.... I haven't watched that many shows as I never heard of him till 3 months ago. He does have some good points in the Puppy Video about being calm and how being excited will just excite the puppy. His technique to stop jumping on you is good and works. As for the video, I personally have never believed in a CHOKE collar. I think a prong collar is absolutely cruel!!! The video is horrible:blink: There's a lot of stuff out there, like electric fences, no bark collars, etc.....that are awful IMHO. I have had big dogs before and I trained them perfectly fine with normal collars. I ordered an easy step harness for Kirby, I had great success with my Lhasa's with using a harness with them. I have been teaching Kirby to walk next to me without a leash for months because he used to try to bite your pant's leg or shoes or feet...I broke him out of that in 2 days so now he can walk next to me on a leash very well. 

I definitely was feeling a bit overwhelmed when he wouldn't go in his crate except to sleep at night the last few days and I'm glad we're back to naps. BTW, I ordered a video camera so I could capture some of his silliness on video. You know what else is funny about him, with all his energy and crazies, he loves loves loves to be on my lap. I am actually having to train him that he is not allowed on my lap unless I invite him, because he would gladly sit on my lap and chew on a bully stick and then I'm all covered in chew stick ick...LOL He's also very kissy/licky.


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## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

Glad things seem better. 

I prefer Petastic rather than Nature's Miracle. What's in the Petastic bottle is the formula that used to be in the Nature's Miracle bottle. The formula had one owner, the name Nature's Miracle had another, and they went their separate ways a few years ago. So I use Petastic now.


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