# Need honest opinion on these breeders



## OneMalt4me (Jan 22, 2006)

Hi SM!

I am looking for a new female furbaby and have been calling around and talking to many breeders for quite a while now.







I've narrowed it down to these few. 

Pashes ( Sheila Riley)
MaltaAngel ( Sheila Meyers)
Chalet de Maltese ( Susie Pham)
Rhapsody ( Tonia H)
Rijes Maltese

possibly: 

Midis Maltese

I am looking for feedback on these breeders. I know they are top breeders but even they can have problems and could have sold "not so perfect" puppies. I'd like to hear your stories ( please PM me if you would not like to openly discuss) I am looking for a totally honest opinion







. If you have Malts from these people can you also let me know, I'd love to know who's Malt came from where- its a great indication of the adult characteristics from thier lines.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I believe you have a list of good breeders. I know Jeanne Haley (Rijes Maltese) and she is absolutely wonderful. She has helped me so much along the way. She doesn't have many litters but I am sure you will be happy with a puppy from her. My Sparkle, Cupcake and Jellybean are from Susie. Nibbler is from Tonia.

You may want to reach out to Heidi Sullivan of Aria Maltese (www.ariamaltese.com). She is the president of the Central California Valley Maltese Club and will be able to direct you. As a bonus, I know she has just the most adorable litter right now. I would love to have the girl perosnally but she will be too small for show.


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## Carole (Nov 1, 2005)

I live in the Sacramento area also.









You have the two Sheilas mixed up (easy to do).







Sheila Meyers is with Pashes (Texas)...
Sheila Riley is with MaltaAngels (close to us...about an hour away...in Valley Springs).

You can't go wrong with Tonia Holibaugh (Texas). I almost got my first Maltese from Tonia, but one from Divine became available first, and Tonia was very kind and gracious about it... and told me to go for it.









I LOVE Divine Maltese.





















I got my Bella through Angie and Larry Stanberry in 2003 and my experience was outstanding...A+ 

There is also well known Richilieu Maltese (Pat Keen-Fernandes) over in S.F. area (two hour drive).

Looks like you are on a good path with your selections....


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## wagirl98665 (Jan 5, 2006)

> Hi SM!
> 
> I am looking for a new female furbaby and have been calling around and talking to many breeders for quite a while now.
> 
> ...




Hi, I don't know if you've heard of this breeder or not, but she's pretty popular and I've actually seen her puppies in person and their beautiful. She also happens to live not that far from you. She's located in Corning, CA about 45 miles from Redding. You can see her puppies online...www.kellyco.com
Hope this helps.


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## Pippinsmom (Nov 29, 2004)

> I live in the Sacramento area also.
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Hi Carole. Didn't you just bring home a puppy from Pashes this month? I have been waiting and waiting to hear about your wonderful new addition and see some pictures, and here you do not recommend Pashes or even mention that you have a puppy from them. Since she has them on her short list, I'm sure that she would be interested to hear what you have to say. Unless of course you are not posting about them because you do NOT recommend them? That is too bad, because I have heard such wonderful things about their breeding program and was looking forward to getting some feedback on them.


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## lynda (Oct 11, 2005)

I just got a puppy in Dec. from MaltaAngel, Sheila Riley. She is a little pip squeek. I got her with a missing 2/3 eye rim on one eye but she is darling and Sheila had told me up front that her eye rim was not complete. She also told me that she had a delightful personality and she could not have been more right!!!!We call her "Miss Congeniality". She has a wonderful personality. Everyone loves her and is drawn to her. Sheila is a lovely person. I have never met her in person as I live in RI but she is very nice to speak to on the phone and she is always available for questions if need be. She had e-mailed me pictures of Katie so I could see what she looked like. I am very happy with both of my breeders. Sheila, of course is in California. She shipped Katie to me on a non stop flight to NJ and my 1st breeder picked up the puppy at the airport and brought her to me. I met Sheila through my 1st breeder, Linda Nelson of Ballet Blanc. If you go with any of the breeders that you mentioned I am sure you will be happy. I only wanted to give you my personal experience.


You can see pictures of Katie in my gallery.

Good Luck,
Lynda


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> I just got a puppy in Dec. from MaltaAngel, Sheila Riley. She is a little pip squeek. I got her with a missing 2/3 eye rim on one eye but she is darling and Sheila had told me up front that her eye rim was not complete. She also told me that she had a delightful personality and she could not have been more right!!!!We call her "Miss Congeniality". She has a wonderful personality. Everyone loves her and is drawn to her. Sheila is a lovely person. I have never met her in person as I live in RI but she is very nice to speak to on the phone and she is always available for questions if need be. She had e-mailed me pictures of Katie so I could see what she looked like. I am very happy with both of my breeders. Sheila, of course is in California. She shipped Katie to me on a non stop flight to NJ and my 1st breeder picked up the puppy at the airport and brought her to me. I met Sheila through my 1st breeder, Linda Nelson of Ballet Blanc. If you go with any of the breeders that you mentioned I am sure you will be happy. I only wanted to give you my personal experience.
> 
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> You can see pictures of Katie in my gallery.
> ...


Wow, Lynda, Chloe and Katie are totally adorable in their photo in your Gallery... They are really quite gorgeous!


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

I don't personally have any experience with those breeders. However, I have heard only great things about MiDis maltese from someone I trust very much.

Carole, like others, I have been waiting for update (pictures, puppy stories) on your new Pashes puppy.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I know Tonia and think she's great! I know a few people in my area with dogs from Pashes and they seem very pleased.


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## lynda (Oct 11, 2005)

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Thank you so much.  No mom can ever get tired of hearing that. I think all the Malts on this site are gorgeous. I dream of being in an open field with all the White Angels prancing around me.







I am a new 2 Malt Mom and still trying to get use to it. I had only one for 13 years and now we have two new ones.

I just posted another picture of them in their new bed from Pawstigiouspups, Kodie's Mom. Don't mean to change the subject but they just love their new bed. That makes 6 beds that they have now.









Lynda


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## Carole (Nov 1, 2005)

I think OneMalt4Me is on a good track with ALL her selections...as I said. The only one on her list I have not heard of is Midis. 

I will always favor Divine as my VERY FAVORITE breeder because they were my 1st Maltese's breeders, and it was such a FABULOUS experience. The relationship grew into a special friendship







so I admit I am biased.







That does not mean I do not recommend Pashes, I DO. Sheila Meyers is a sweet lady and she has been in Maltese with her mom Patsy Stokes since the 70's. They breed a terrific line of Maltese and are certainly an asset to the Maltese community! 

My Pashes' girl "Krista" has a little more energy







than I would have liked for both Bella's sake and my own, but is otherwise a lovely Maltese.







She is not as close to show quality as Bella is, but still a sweetheart.





















I am just going through the usual new fur-mom (with two) exhaustion right now.







Remember, I have never had one this young before.







I got Bella at six months and Krista at 12 weeks. 

I have not posted pictures yet because ...I am DUMB







when it comes to tech things. We just had a death in the family this week (brother-in-law) but when my adult son gets some time I will bribe him







to help me with a couple pictures of Krista on arrival day.









I met Sheila Riley of MaltaAngels when she brought Bella to me from Angie/Larry Stanberry of Divine Maltese in 2003. Sheila Riley is a lovely woman. She co-bred with Angie....CH. Divine's Marc of Friendship "Marc" who is #1 in all systems for 2005. Sheila Riley has a wonderful line of Maltese going.









p.s. Lynda sent me a picture of her DARLING girls in their new Pawstigiouspups bed last night...It was so lovely looking...I just had to have it ....and ordered it, too.





















(Thanks, Kodie's Mom)


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## OneMalt4me (Jan 22, 2006)

Thank you to everyone that replied! and the people who PM'ed me. I guess almost everyone on SM has had good experiences. I do know of a few people who had some not so good stories to share and was just wondering if it was common out there. I do understand that sometimes its hard to say something thats not so positive because you are afraid of controversy and rather just avoid it. 

Maybe its just because I'm new here and I care more about the health of my new pup then saving face with a breeder or it could simply be the fact that I'm blunt







so I will share something.

I visited one of the breeders on my list and I was not please with what I saw. There were dogs in cages in a part of her house that normal visitors would probably not be exposed to. They were stacked on top of eachother- I was shocked and even more appalled that this person has gained the reputable breeder title. She is obviously a puppy mill. 

There was another experience with a breeder on my list. She was trying to sell me a boy therefore saying that girls were literrally " bitches" and went on about why they were. Although I know this was the technical term for a female, I think its rather harsh to refer to or call her female puppies that with that other definition of it in mind. ( I didn't like this too much but did not exclude her off my list to give her the benefit of the doubt, but the more I think about it, the more it bothers me that she would do that. This breed is so darlin, I would never in a million years refer to them in that way) Also both breeders did not ask much about me at all. They just told me a price and was ready to sell me a pup

I also met someone with a Malt from another breeder on my list and she's had all sorts of trouble with her dog. She too went with this person because of all the great hype about thier line, but when she received her little girl, she has had all sorts of health problems that could have been avoided with legit blood tests and selective breeding. ( however, this breeder did care about interviewing my friend)

So it makes me wonder,.... the reason why I consider these people is because I want to assure I am not getting a puppymill pup or a pup that will have problems. Thats the only thing that justifies the $2500-$3500 that these breeders charge. But if I am getting the same quality pup that I would if I paid $1,000 from a Hobby breeder ( that might even have better quality pups) that raises a huge question! Are there enough checkpoints out there to assure that these reputable breeders are indeed reputable? do people that have thier pups shipped to them even know what going on behind the scenes? 

After reading all the posts on this site and seeing how sweet everyeone is, I hope I am not raising any controversy by stating the truth. I hope I will get some support because I am blunt and am perhaps the first to admit these kinds of things.


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## Kisses-4-Princess (Dec 4, 2005)

WOW!


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## stini (Feb 26, 2005)

> I visited one of the breeders on my list and I was not please with what I saw. There were dogs in cages in a part of her house that normal visitors would probably not be exposed to. They were stacked on top of eachother- I was shocked and even more appalled that this person has gained the reputable breeder title. She is obviously a puppy mill.
> 
> I also met someone with a Malt from another breeder on my list and she's had all sorts of trouble with her dog. She too went with this person because of all the great hype about thier line, but when she received her little girl, she has had all sorts of health problems that could have been avoided with legit blood tests and selective breeding.
> 
> ...


I don't have a maltese yet either, but I'm currently researching breeders.

I, too, am willing to pay handsomely for a well bred, genetically sound puppy. But I have to say, I was shocked and deeply saddened with the truth that you've discovered about the breeders you interviewed.

I was always under the impression that Jennifer Siliski was in the very small minority of supposedly "top notch" breeders who turned out to be in the business out of sheer greed, rather than for the betterment of the Maltese breed. 

But if there are others out there, I encourage you to name names, so that other would-be Malt Mommies and Daddies are made aware. If we can get the word out, people will quit buying dogs from pet stores, puppy mills, and even these "top notch" breeders that confine their dogs to tiny cages, and we will put them out of business.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> I don't have a maltese yet either, but I'm currently researching breeders.
> 
> I, too, am willing to pay handsomely for a well bred, genetically sound puppy. But I have to say, I was shocked and deeply saddened with the truth that you've discovered about the breeders you interviewed.
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> ...


All I can say, if anyone decides to "name names", be very, very careful that you are speaking the 1000% absolute truth and that you have not misinterpreted something about the care of the breeder's pups. Speaking negatively about someone in a public forum is a huge responsibility. You can potentially ruin the good reputation that someone has spent decades trying to build. 

For example, you might see puppies in tiny cages. So you might say..."so and so keeps the puppies in tiny cages." But what you don't know is that there is a huge play area where they spend most of their time and are only in the cages for a short time for feeding, etc. This is not an actual example but just the type of thing that can be misinterpreted by not knowing all the facts.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

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I agree with KC's Mom.


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## Carole (Nov 1, 2005)

OneMalt4Me

Your last post shows you obviously started the thread with an intended agenda and preset opinion and mindset on the breeders you inquired about. By doing so you wasted the time of good people who were trying nothing more than to be kind and helpful by taking time out of their busy lives to give their thoughts and experiences to you.

Go to the tier of breeder you wish and spend what you wish to spend. It is each of our right...but do not come to this board to do your best to insult and belittle those who chose or choose a path different from you... or smear these breeders with a wide swath of your evil brush... just because you can post such things anonymously.

Good luck...to the puppy.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> OneMalt4Me
> 
> Your last post shows you obviously started the thread with an intended agenda and preset opinion and mindset on the breeders you inquired about. By doing so you wasted the time of good people who were trying nothing more than to be kind and helpful by taking time out of their busy lives to give their thoughts and experiences to you.
> 
> ...



I don't think she started the thread with a hidden agenda-I just didn't get that from her posts...and I was actually quite interested to read what she saw and her experiences...whether they were her own assessment of the actual situation or not. I also don't think she said anything about anyone who chose to get their pups from any of those breeders...but maybe I missed something. I am just not seeing the reason for getting so ugly with her in your post, but maybe you read into it more than I did.












> All I can say, if anyone decides to "name names", be very, very careful that you are speaking the 1000% absolute truth and that you have not misinterpreted something about the care of the breeder's pups. Speaking negatively about someone in a public forum is a huge responsibility. You can potentially ruin the good reputation that someone has spent decades trying to build.
> 
> For example, you might see puppies in tiny cages. So you might say..."so and so keeps the puppies in tiny cages." But what you don't know is that there is a huge play area where they spend most of their time and are only in the cages for a short time for feeding, etc. This is not an actual example but just the type of thing that can be misinterpreted by not knowing all the facts.[/B]


I do agree with the statement K/C made....I really don't know that naming names is the appropriate thing to do and THAT in itself could cause a LOT of controversy that doesn't need to be stirred up.
Besides, it seems like I remember somewhere that Joe didn't want us naming names like that...or suggesting that certain breeders where puppy mills...but I could be wrong.


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## Carole (Nov 1, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=147730
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I admit I am in a bit of a huff and apologize for that. Perhaps she didn't have an agenda. On that I will give the benefit of the doubt. She obviously had already made up her mind about these breeders BEFORE she even inquired to us about them... so why waste our time and why blacken the name of ALL of them with anonoymous insults?


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## lynda (Oct 11, 2005)

[QUOTE(Carole @ Feb 2 2006, 11:57 AM) 


QUOTE(Brinkley & Neyland's Mom @ Feb 2 2006, 08:47 AM) 


QUOTE(Carole @ Feb 2 2006, 12:15 PM) 

OneMalt4Me

Your last post shows you obviously started the thread with an intended agenda and preset opinion and mindset on the breeders you inquired about. By doing so you wasted the time of good people who were trying nothing more than to be kind and helpful by taking time out of their busy lives to give their thoughts and experiences to you.

Go to the tier of breeder you wish and spend what you wish to spend. It is each of our right, but do not come to this board to do your best to insult and belittle those who chose or choose a path different from you... or smear these breeders with a wide swath of your evil brush... just because you can post such things anonymously.

Good luck...to the puppy.



I don't think she started the thread with a hidden agenda-I just didn't get that from her posts...and I was actually quite interested to read what she saw and her experiences...whether they were her own assessment of the actual situation or not. I also don't think she said anything about anyone who chose to get their pups from any of those breeders...but maybe I missed something. I am just not seeing the reason for getting so ugly with her in your post, but maybe you read into it more than I did. 

I do agree with the statement K/C made....I really don't know that naming names is the appropriate thing to do and THAT in itself could cause a LOT of controversy that doesn't need to be stirred up.
Besides, it seems like I remember somewhere that Joe didn't want us naming names like that...or suggesting that certain breeders where puppy mills...but I could be wrong. 



I admit I am in a bit of a huff and apologize for that. Perhaps she didn't have an agenda. On that I will give the benefit of the doubt. She obviously had already made up her mind about these breeders BEFORE she even inquired to us about them... so why waste our time and why blacken the name of ALL of them with anonoymous insult



I have to agree with Carole. The inquirer has six breeders on her list. If you read her second post she has a problem with three of the breeders. Why then are they even on her list.

Lynda


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

When you edit you cna just delete what you want. If you want to just get rid of everything edit the post and delete everything. You can type something like "I removed my post"


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## Littlemans Mom (Apr 6, 2005)

I have to agree with the above posters that think this thread was started with an agenda.... so to speak. The post asks for honest opinions on a few named breeders. It is clear from the last post that the poster already had opinions formed and really didn't need help. Also it seems like an attempt to make a few of those breeders look bad. I read and reread the post and the reasons given for calling one a puppymill and not liking a couple of others just seem like a way to smear their names even though names were not mentioned..There was enough info to go by in which the ones mentioned could be named. I just think the post was started for reasons other than first stated and many people took the time to try and help out someone who really wasn't looking for help after all.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Oops ... I was in the wrong thread with my welcome post to another member!! Sorry 'bout that!!


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## lynda (Oct 11, 2005)

> When you edit you cna just delete what you want. If you want to just get rid of everything edit the post and delete everything. You can type something like "I removed my post"[/B]



Thanks, God knows I make plenty of mistakes.

Lynda


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

I'm not going to speculate on another person's "intentions" in posting. I like getting both pros and cons on breeders. They are a business after all and I want to know where a pup is coming from. However, I don't think we should have anything bad repeated here with names mentioned. Things get out of control too easily. Maybe personal email or PM......? That way only the person who wants to know both sides will hear names, and we won't be throwing names around and hurting people who don't deserve it,---or criticizing someone brave enough to be straight-forward.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> I have to agree with the above posters that think this thread was started with an agenda.... so to speak. The post asks for honest opinions on a few named breeders. It is clear from the last post that the poster already had opinions formed and really didn't need help. Also it seems like an attempt to make a few of those breeders look bad. I read and reread the post and the reasons given for calling one a puppymill and not liking a couple of others just seem like a way to smear their names even though names were not mentioned..There was enough info to go by in which the ones mentioned could be named. I just think the post was started for reasons other than first stated and many people took the time to try and help out someone who really wasn't looking for help after all.[/B]



I thought about this thread overnight. While three breeders were mentioned in a negative way, that leaves three who are grouped with them because of the way the post was written. I know for a fact that it is not my friend (who is one of these listed) because she doesn't have a large number of dogs, nor are they stacked in crates; yet, who is to know, as the post is written who is who? I had sent a PM telling positive points about her. When this thread started, I thought it was one asking for help too, and I tried to contribute. Now, I'm questioning it. 
The more I thought about this post last night, the more I thought about the statement about the stacked crates being in a part of the house people usually don't go. I would have to question how this is known to be a part where people usually don't go, then I would like to know if it was a private area why the poster was there. Right now, I have a two week old puppy (no she is not for sale). She and her mom are in my bed in a box, where they have been since she was born. That part of my "kennel" is off limits. Yet, I've had people here who did go snooping into other parts of my house. I resented it, just like you would if they came to your house.
As some of you know, because I am a member of this site, I choose to not sell pups to members, or to make it known if I do have a pup. I've sold 10 Maltese in three years, so I'm not that big. I think that is the ethical thing to do to keep a fun chat site separate from business. But, there is a growing trend for breeders to come on these sites, check out the posting, and be wary of selling to members who post here. And this is not just those who might be friends with the owner of another site (who also come here). I heard an ear full this past week when someone (Westminister bound) called to ask about one of my dogs for stud. You might check some of the named breeders to see how often they check in. Do you wonder why they even bother, if they don't contribute? There are others who just go online and read posts without being members.
If one has facts such as "I went to so and so breeders home where I SAW 50 dogs stacked in tiny crates in a garage", or "so and so breeder has her dogs debarked, living in stacked crates in her home", then that should be reported. I think it is important to stick to RAW FACTS. Again, as some of you know I can be quite critical of people who go off with half cocked ideas and opinions without enough knowledge. It's things like this that can ruin a breeder. And, it is also things like this that make breeders more leery of pet buyers. After all, this isn't a money making business. Or, if it is, maybe I'm doing something wrong. So folks, before I get off my soapbox and go back to work, just think about this--good reputable breeders work long and hard to provide you with a quality/healthy pup. These pups are easy to sell, so be very careful what you say on one of these sites because you might find that a breeder puts you on their black list, or breeds less frequently because they don't want to have to deal with things like this, or risk having their name ruined on some site by people with an adgenda or by people who know just enough to be dangerous.


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I wonder if the original poster went and visited one of the breeders after she posted the first time? If so, then I would consider her concerns about the number of puppies, etc. valid to her. If she'd already been and knew that there was something that she didn't like then maybe that particular breeder should have been listed.

It is important to remember that we are the customer. No one is making us buy a puppy from anyone, be it a breeder or a puppy mill. We all have individual needs and what is important to me might not be important to you, etc. If the original poster is very concerned about the number of puppies that a breeder has then perhaps a smaller show breeder that has only one or two litters each year might be a good choice. Bear in mind, however, that the wait for a puppy might be very long.

I think that it is very dangerous to list breeders by name and then make disparaging comments about them unless we have ALL of the facts. I would hope that all posters would be very careful in their comments.

PS. I am very sorry. I meant so say that if she already knew something that she didn't like about a breeder then maybe they should NOT have been listed (assuming she had already ruled them out.) I just want to make sure that we all post fairly and not smear anyone's reputation without being absolutely sure of all facts.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> I wonder if the original poster went and visited one of the breeders after she posted the first time? If so, then I would consider her concerns about the number of puppies, etc. valid to her. If she'd already been and knew that there was something that she didn't like then maybe that particular breeder should have been listed.
> 
> It is important to remember that we are the customer. No one is making us buy a puppy from anyone, be it a breeder or a puppy mill. We all have individual needs and what is important to me might not be important to you, etc. If the original poster is very concerned about the number of puppies that a breeder has then perhaps a smaller show breeder that has only one or two litters each year might be a good choice. Bear in mind, however, that the wait for a puppy might be very long.
> 
> I think that it is very dangerous to list breeders by name and then make disparaging comments about them unless we have ALL of the facts. I would hope that all posters would be very careful in their comments.[/B]



I agree that it is important to know facts. People should do their homework before purchasing a pup. If a visit was made, then the FACTS for that one breeder should have been mentioned, or at least the posting should have been amended to say that the list was growing shorted as a visit had been made. At that point a statement that if additional information was needed on that visit, then a PM would be in order. I'm sure if I went somewhere and I SAW WITH MY OWN EYES a breeder's set up with 50 to 75 dogs stacked three high in crates, I would state those FACTS. But don't lump the other breeders into this negative posting.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Very good HappyB and msmagnolia. I like your point of view. I think unless there is evidence serious enough to be checked, and verified by, the authorities or some professional, names shouldn't be connected here with serious negative comments.

HappyB your discretion is admired, but I do often wish that I knew who you are! You sound like a lovely fur-mommie! and a person I'd probably like to have a puppy from some day.


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

This thread has really changed since I looked here last night. Carole, I don't think the Onemalt4me had an agenda other than to find a healthy, well bred puppy. I think often people buy puppies from breeders they have never seen due to distance/cost issues and as a result rely solely on the reputation of the breeder. She or he was just expressing concern that maybe reputation was not enough to gurantee a healthy pup based on some of her experiences. On another note, I don't think its very fair of you to not put Pashes breeding program in the same tone as you speak of Divine maltese simply because a pet quality puppy you bought is energetic (as any 12 week old puppy should be) and is pet quality (which is what you were told she would be), right?? I don't know, maybe I am just not interpreting what you are saying correctly?? I looked at her pictures and she is just as adorable as your Bella.

Anyways, to Onemalt4me, I just wanted to say that if you were looking for a show breeder with fewer dogs who are not kept in crates and well taken care of and loved, then I would highly recommend MiDis maltese.


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## Lacie2 (Sep 23, 2005)

The problem I see with this thread is that several breeders were named as possible breeders of interest and in the second post, three were spoken of in a negative way and not named. When you do this, it puts a question in peoples minds as to which of the named breeders were the ones you were unhappy with. By naming them and then not saying who you actually visited with, it puts a cloud over them all. I wish you had not named them until you had checked them all out and then you could share your honest opinion on all the breeders you named.


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## Haven (Sep 22, 2005)

> This thread has really changed since I looked here last night. Carole, I don't think the Onemalt4me had an agenda other than to find a healthy, well bred puppy. I think often people buy puppies from breeders they have never seen due to distance/cost issues and as a result rely solely on the reputation of the breeder. She or he was just expressing concern that maybe reputation was not enough to gurantee a healthy pup based on some of her experiences....[/B]



<span style="font-family:Georgia">This was my thought when I read the posts as well. </span>


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## Pippinsmom (Nov 29, 2004)

I have been thinking about this thread all day too, and I just have a few comments to make (here it comes! LOL).

1. The experiences that she recounted she states she experienced from breeders "on her list". She did not specify whether she was referring to her final list (which she posted on this thread) or her original list (before she narrowed her choices down to the posted names). I feel like people are jumping all over her and basically jumping to conclusions without knowing exactly what she meant by her post. I would certainly have given her the benefit of the doubt or at least asked her for some clarification before I started with the accusations.

2. At the end of her post, she does make a valid point. Show ring wins, fancy kennel names and flashy pedigrees tell you absolutely nothing about the living conditions at your breeder's. No matter how slick the website or how many people recommend or do not recommend a breeder, it is still up to the individual puppy buyer to make that final decision. Whether she didn't like the breeder because the breeder referred to female puppies as "bitches", or the breeder's living room was painted blue, or because the breeder made her sing the star spangled banner at the end of her visit, that is her perogative and if it bothered her I'm certainly not going to bash her for it. Different strokes for different folks. As far as the stacked cages, unless I have seen something of that nature with my OWN EYES, I don't give it a second thought nor would I repeat it. If I am that serious about a breeder, I'll fly out and see for myself. 

3. I never post anything on this site about a breeder that I would not tell them right to their face. I know they lurk on here but I'm not going to hide in a corner because I voice an opinion that they might not appreciate. I feel that I am an intelligent, rational human being and if I have a concern about something or something pertinent to add to a topic, then I post...and I'm sure there have been plenty of times when people have not agreed with something I said, but I don't call all my friends to complain because susie on some internet pet site said that my breeding program sucks. Hey, if you think it sucks...I'm not going to say a darn thing about it, because that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't have to agree with you to respect what you have to say. 

Well, I think that about does it for me. Good luck to the original poster, I hope you find a healthy, beautiful puppy.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> I have been thinking about this thread all day too, and I just have a few comments to make (here it comes! LOL).
> 
> 1. The experiences that she recounted she states she experienced from breeders "on her list". She did not specify whether she was referring to her final list (which she posted on this thread) or her original list (before she narrowed her choices down to the posted names). I feel like people are jumping all over her and basically jumping to conclusions without knowing exactly what she meant by her post. I would certainly have given her the benefit of the doubt or at least asked her for some clarification before I started with the accusations.
> 
> ...



And it is so nice when you do come forward to write those nice emails with your opinion. You have given me a boost on more than one occasion. 
Now, let me get busy and get you a nice show pup sired by Andy.


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## OneMalt4me (Jan 22, 2006)

> OneMalt4Me
> 
> Your last post shows you obviously started the thread with an intended agenda and preset opinion and mindset on the breeders you inquired about. By doing so you wasted the time of good people who were trying nothing more than to be kind and helpful by taking time out of their busy lives to give their thoughts and experiences to you.
> 
> ...


Lets get a few things straight.

I composed my list of breeders from feedback I read about throughout this forum, other forums, word of mouth and through speaking with them. I’ve even called all of them here and there to inquire about their breeding program, asking simple questions about what kinds of foods they feed, if they potty train, what kinds of testing they do- just to get to know them better before I decide to bring another malt home. I finally decided that I wanted to get another malt now and had that list that I have compiled. Most of these breeders all very close to me (within a two hour drive or flight). I have friends that live next to the further ones so I listed them as well. 

If I had already knew these things about any of the breeders on my list, why would I not rule them out like I have many other breeders? There is no need for an “agenda.” If I wanted to state something I would simply state it. I have no problem being straight forward nor do I have any fear about posting what I saw. I know there are breeders on this forum. I don’t need to plan an “agenda”, that is silly.

Common sense would tell you that some of these breeders are VERY easy for me to visit. How many times has someone posted here asking for feedback the day before they visit a puppy?? If I had not seen it with my own eyes why would I even bother to mention it. How many times have the people here vouched for a reputable breeder only to be shocked later when a “discovery” happens. I stated what I saw and thought it was worth mentioning. I did not ask for validation. You can believe or not. I did not try to persuade anyone to believe it or change their opinion on anything. It was simply a heads up. If you plan to buy – then visit the homes and asked to see where the parents are. 

lets talk about this comment that I wrote:

“There was another experience with a breeder on my list. She was trying to sell me a boy therefore saying that girls were literrally " bitches" and went on about why they were. Although I know this was the technical term for a female, I think its rather harsh to refer to or call her female puppies that with that other definition of it in mind. ( I didn't like this too much but did not exclude her off my list to give her the benefit of the doubt, but the more I think about it, the more it bothers me that she would do that. This breed is so darlin, I would never in a million years refer to them in that way) Also both breeders did not ask much about me at all. They just told me a price and was ready to sell me a pup”

WAS THERE ANYWHERE ON THIS COMMENT THAT IMPLIED THAT SHE WAS NOT A GOOD BREEDER? In fact, I had heard this before I posted but I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt (in which I stated). I even said I know this is the technical term for a female and but it just bothered me. It was just one of those things that bothered me over time. I know some of you hear or read things that do not bother you much at the time but all it takes is one serious thought about it to bother you. I just stated that it bothers me , that’s the whole purpose of using the words “ I THINK”. Carol, if I said to you “your little girl is a bitch or she’s always going be bitchy”, will you honestly say that it wouldn’t bother you at all? I am in love with my baby and even if that’s the technical term for a female dog I would never ever call her that with the other context in mind and I am sure most of you will agree.

About this comment:
“I also met someone with a Malt from another breeder on my list and she's had all sorts of trouble with her dog. She too went with this person because of all the great hype about thier line, but when she received her little girl, she has had all sorts of health problems that could have been avoided with legit blood tests and selective breeding. ( however, this breeder did care about interviewing my friend)” 

WAS THERE ANYWHERE ON THIS COMMENT THAT IMPLIED THAT SHE WAS NOT A GOOD BREEDER? I am simply sharing what I learned, that there are pups with lots of problems that came from reputable breeders as well. This is more common then people here would like to admit. Keep in mind that the people on this forum are not the only people that own malts and that this forum is not the only place where I sought advice and I have had MANY people reply and warn me of the same problems- it does not take more than a day to receive replies from here or any other site. 

There were many people here that did not jump to conclusion when they read this and were very supportive. I though this forum was here so that we can openly share our opinions, stories, thoughts, -not to make uncalled for replies like this by

Carol:
“Your last post shows you obviously started the thread with an intended agenda and preset opinion and mindset on the breeders you inquired about. By doing so you wasted the time of good people who were trying nothing more than to be kind and helpful by taking time out of their busy lives to give their thoughts and experiences to you.
Go to the tier of breeder you wish and spend what you wish to spend. It is each of our right...but do not come to this board to do your best to insult and belittle those who chose or choose a path different from you... or smear these breeders with a wide swath of your evil brush... just because you can post such things anonymously.

Good luck...to the puppy.”

I would think the person who can even write such a quote is the doing the evil brush. Where did I ever insult of belittle those who chose a different path? What path was I even swaying someone to choose?? if you are going to say something mean- at least have a valid reason to!!! How am I wasting the time of people who share their thoughts and experiences? I am doing the same, “ sharing my thoughts and experiences” – should I say you are wasting my time since I am replying to your absurd comment? Just because my thoughts and experiences are not aligned with what you’d like to hear does not mean that they are invalid or should be insulted. I have no desire to join the bandwagon of single minded thoughts. I will state what I want and if you don’t like it, do not reply, don’t try to stir up a storm with inappropriate accusations and disrespectful comments.

Two of my comments were about 1) how I feel about the choice of words and 2) that even the best breeders do not always produce the perfect pups- this can apply to ALL the top breeders out there. So I don’t even know how people are concluding that I put a cloud on all the breeders on my list. If anything, if you were looking into these breeders, just do your homework as you should anyone you buy a pup from and formulate your own opinion. With my concern about the situation I saw at a breeder’s site- that should just prompt you to go see the breeder’s home if you can and see where the parents are kept. Ultimately,all this is, is a posting for those of you who care to hear the other side of things. I read a lot of things on this forum but I don’t form all my decisions solely from what I read. These postings are here to caution us about certain things or give recomendation, the majority of posts on forums are opinion. I, as well as everyone else should only use the things we read here as info to help us formulate a stand of our own. Use what you read as guidance if you care to. If not, disregard it. Don’t come on here and accuse or assume any mal intentions by me. I am simply posting experiences I had.


For those of you who PM’ed me with supportive stories and messages, I am glad. I do see why you would not post openly here, there are some very vindictive people who totally jump to conclusions and try to impede their belief onto others. I commend those of you that were openly posting your positive thoughts ( not just here but on many threads when this happens). Thank you.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

Can we just cut to the chase here? I think the thing that has people upset was not addressed in your most recent post. 
I've copied this below. Readers, if I'm wrong, jump in here. 
Here is what you wrote, and what concerned me.
--------------
I visited one of the breeders on my list and I was not please with what I saw. There were dogs in cages in a part of her house that normal visitors would probably not be exposed to. They were stacked on top of eachother- I was shocked and even more appalled that this person has gained the reputable breeder title. She is obviously a puppy mill. 
--------------
To call a breeder a puppymill is a strong statement. I'm not saying you didn't see this documentation, as your PM said there were between 50 and 75 dogs stacked in crates. The problem is that you left it hanging as to which breeder this was, so this could have been any of the six you mentioned. I had exchanged PM's with you regarding positive things about my friend. I knew it wasn't her, but the way your post was worded, it didn't say who it was. I'm not saying your facts aren't right, as I could probably add some facts I know on some like the one not on your list with 150 or so dogs, but it's just not fair to the other five breeders on your list to include them with this vague statement. Even with your saying you were in two hours of the two breeders in California, that still leaves the question as to which one you visited who had all these dogs stacked in crates. One is still being included in that puppymill statement. Also, others might not have paid attention to your location. Two of the breeders on your list are in Texas, so some might have assumed you meant one of them. Again, not fair.

Finally, can you explain the statement about being in a part of her house that normal visitors would probably not be exposed to? Call m curious here, but I would really like to know.

Now, just so you know--this site is composed of a number of great people. We try to work here to help each other.


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## OneMalt4me (Jan 22, 2006)

> Can we just cut to the chase here? I think the thing that has people upset was not addressed in your most recent post.
> I've copied this below. Readers, if I'm wrong, jump in here.
> Here is what you wrote, and what concerned me.
> --------------
> ...



YES happyB, lets cut to the chase. 

you were the first to PM me and say:

". When I'm in her home, I have the opportunity to play and love on any pups that are there because she keeps them right with her. *Unlike at least two others you have listed on your list, she does NOT raise her dogs stacked in crates in a garage or outbuilding*."

Why don't you tell us the two on my list that you are referring to? As you said above "it's just not fair to the other five breeders on your list to include them with this vague statement." since you are so adamant about this me not grouping, lets not be a hypocrite: would you like to share who you were referring to?

I can't believe you are playing this game. I can't believe I thought you were a nice person. You can PM me all sorts of things and then come on here and speak as if you did not have opinions of your own. You have told me that 2 of the people on my list had dogs stacked on crates. That another one of them had a history of dogs with luxating patellas and that you too do not like to hear the term "bitch" either and then you post on here as if you did not try to inform anyone of your experiences as well? I am sure while telling me all that (and more) you intended for me to form my own opinion through my own research so why post on here as if you think its so wrong that I shared my experiences.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

OneMalt4me ~

I have only one problem this thread. You seem to be asking advice on "certain" breeders. You want specific information from those who have any experience. Yet, when you have discovered information, YOU are not sharing. By stating a "breeder on my list", is blah, blah, blah, doesn't mean anything. It sounds as though you could be the one of help. So let's here it, whom would be the one with the sky-high crates?


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> OneMalt4me ~
> 
> I have only one problem this thread. You seem to be asking advice on "certain" breeders. You want specific information from those who have any experience. Yet, when you have discovered information, YOU are not sharing. By stating a "breeder on my list", is blah, blah, blah, doesn't mean anything. It sounds as though you could be the one of help. So let's here it, whom would be the one with the sky-high crates?[/B]



I agree completely with this. Not only does this seem to be the case, but when placed in the hot seat, you attack others. There is a big difference in suggesting in a private message that one do their homework on any breeder before they make a choice and going pubic on a forum with the intent to slander a group of breeders. You asked me to specifically name breeders and tell you dirt on them. I gave you no names. I told you questions to ask breeders to get your own information. Specifically, I suggested you ask each if you could come for a visit and tour their kennel. Right now, I've moved to the psychologist mode, and I've started diagnosing. What I see isn't pretty or that of a healthy individual. Perhaps you would be better suited for a different chat site, because so far you are just coming across as a trouble maker.
Like Carole, I suspect you have other motives other than finding a good breeder. Or do we have someone by another name her in disguise? I suggest we ask Joe to close this thread.to close this thread.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

JMO and observation...








but I don't think a pm should be later quoted on the public forum.
Again, just my opinion....I think you could have made your point without quoting the pm...but that is just me.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> JMO and observation...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Traci, I agree whole heartedly with you. There is almost an unspoken "code of ethics" here about PMs. 
What is said in a *P*rivate Message ... stays private.


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## Littlemans Mom (Apr 6, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=148070
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I also agree that a private message is just that PRIVATE


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> JMO and observation...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i agree, there are some good info in this thread so I'm not sure it deserves to be closed, "yet", but parts of it should stay private and it sounds like much of it needs to go private, noone has to divulge anything they dont wish but I would appreciate if anyone who makes a statement that is questioned then it should be backed up with facts (i stress anyone, i'm not pointing my statements at any indivdual here)

thought number 2, again not pointed at anyone but more of an observation(sp), why is it that everything has to be picked apart so much? its like digging deeper into a well thats gone dry, sure there may be something there but is it worth trying to find instead of moving on?

this has been "deep thoughts by Jack Handy", carry on


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Yes, content of PM's should stay private and not be revealed here. I don't mind saying I asked for names to be revealed in a PM to the original poster (on the 1st day of posting), and said I didn't think harmful things should include names *on the forum*. I don't mind revealing--I haven't heard back from her. I don't know what to think of that for sure....







I always give the benefit of doubt, so maybe she's too busy...


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## Lacie2 (Sep 23, 2005)

When someone takes the time to send you a PM to try and help you it is very unsportsman like to quote their PM's on a public forum. That kind of behavior will cause people to stop responding to any request you make. I would hate to see that happen because the people on here are full of good information and are willing to share.


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## OneMalt4me (Jan 22, 2006)

I agree completely with this. Not only does this seem to be the case, but when placed in the hot seat, you attack others. There is a big difference in suggesting in a private message that one do their homework on any breeder before they make a choice and going pubic on a forum with the intent to slander a group of breeders. You asked me to specifically name breeders and tell you dirt on them. I gave you no names. I told you questions to ask breeders to get your own information. Specifically, I suggested you ask each if you could come for a visit and tour their kennel. Right now, I've moved to the psychologist mode, and I've started diagnosing. What I see isn't pretty or that of a healthy individual. Perhaps you would be better suited for a different chat site, because so far you are just coming across as a trouble maker.
Like Carole, I suspect you have other motives other than finding a good breeder. Or do we have someone by another name her in disguise? I suggest we ask Joe to close this thread.to close this thread.
[/QUOTE]

Who are you to talk about attacking? I hope you are referrring to yourself. You PM me all sorts of unfavorable info and come on this forum and contradict yourself. I did not PM you and ask you to name breeders! You replied to me and volunteered your fare share of bashing. The only difference between you and I when it comes to this topic is I admit to what I say and I stand by my opinions. I do not change my stories from person to person, private mediums to public mediums. I only quoted you in that in the last post to prove a point. You wrote me to warm me about the people on my list! without stating names, yet when I am not stating names, you are attacking me - did you state names? Practice what you preach!. 
I have decided not to name who I saw with the advice of many pleasant members here. 

Don't call me a trouble maker, I think it is obvious who the trouble maker is. *You started talking about my PM replies to you so I didn't think you thought confidentiality was importan*t. I would never speak about any other PMs I have between other members but obviously you didn't repect my PMs so why should I respect yours. You are totally instigating- then you come on here and act like a saint. Of course you would suggest that Joe close this thread. You have been exposed for who you really are. 

I read on here all the threads about posters asking opinions about certain breeders and many times people reply with negative feedback or say they think that person is a puppy mill. They draw these conlcusions from navigating a website that was provided by the poster or from what they "heard". I can easily say that's even worst because they are directly bashing someone but I won't because I think they are entitled to draw conclusions on what they see and give an opinion- just as I- an opinion I formed with what I saw with my own eyes. 

This post was exactly what OKW stated:

"Onemalt4me had an agenda other than to find a healthy, well bred puppy. I think often people buy puppies from breeders they have never seen due to distance/cost issues and as a result rely solely on the reputation of the breeder. She or he was just expressing concern that maybe reputation was not enough to gurantee a healthy pup based on some of her experiences. " Thank you. 

Somehow, some people like to find reasons to insult. 

The reason I am still posting is for all the people who always wanted to be straight forward and just couldn't because of this. The few bad people who are disrespectful, instigating and contradicting will not scare me. I don't think Joe built this forum for the few of you are are drawing conclusions and bullying to dictate who should or should not be here, or for you to gain up on and scare off new users like you've done so many times already because they do not share your views or refuse to do what you want them to do.


Frosty's mom, I apologize. I have quite a bit of PMs and thought I have replied to all of them.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

If any list member would like to read the three PM's I sent to this person, I will be happy to copy and paste it to you in an email. I will not send you her PM's to me, as that is considered private.


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

ok i gave the thread a chance but it seems noone cares about discussing the original subject any longer

closed


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