# Excessive drinking?? Diabetes?



## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

I have been noticing Sasha has been visiting her bowl a lot more recently therefore peeing more. Diabetes has came to mind. 

Are there any other symptoms other than urination/drinking I should be looking for???? How much water is consider excessive?? Im not sure if I should be this worried. She is my little baby and at 12 yo. I really cant be taking chances. If I continue to see this behavior through the weekend. I will bring her into the vet sometime next week.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Well, coincidently I have been going through this with my Lola. It can be any number of things. As it turns out, it looks like Lola had a urinary tract infection. She needs to see the vet, have a urinalyisis and a lab panel. Good luck. Hopefully it is something easy to treat!


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

pammy4501 said:


> Well, coincidently I have been going through this with my Lola. It can be any number of things. As it turns out, it looks like Lola had a urinary tract infection. She needs to see the vet, have a urinalyisis and a lab panel. Good luck. Hopefully it is something easy to treat!


UTI has came to mind also because she had one like 5 years go and I remember the constant urination. But at the time she was having a lot of accidents around the house and her pee was almost clear. Neither of which are happening now. 

Thanks for answering.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

I agree - it could be a number of things. Bonnie was drinking excessively two years ago. She was misdiagnosed with Cushing's. It was only after I questioned her vet (her ex-vet) that I went for a second opinon. In Bonnie's case, she had a benign liver tumor, but it was only after I prodded and insisted on an ultrasound.

How long has this been going on? I would recommend a visit to her vet.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

She's 12-years-old. Take her in for a full senior exam.


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

3Maltmom said:


> She's 12-years-old. Take her in for a full senior exam.


I can assure you she has had every test to date the vet has recommended. I just recently took her in for a second opinion on her overall health. I will bring her in to my normal vet and describe the symptoms. 



Bonnie's Mommie said:


> I agree - it could be a number of things. Bonnie was drinking excessively two years ago. She was misdiagnosed with Cushing's. It was only after I questioned her vet (her ex-vet) that I went for a second opinon. In Bonnie's case, she had a benign liver tumor, but it was only after I prodded and insisted on an ultrasound.
> 
> How long has this been going on? I would recommend a visit to her vet.


 
She was tested in February for cushings and that was neg. She also had an ultrasound. They checked all her organs. She had surgery. She went through an extensive work op. She just had abdominal xrays about two wks ago. I think a mass would have shown?


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Bonnie's Mommie said:


> I agree - it could be a number of things. Bonnie was drinking excessively two years ago. She was misdiagnosed with Cushing's. It was only after I questioned her vet (her ex-vet) that I went for a second opinon. In Bonnie's case, she had a benign liver tumor, but it was only after I prodded and insisted on an ultrasound.
> 
> How long has this been going on? I would recommend a visit to her vet.


I would say about one week. Ive asked my boyfriend if he thinks she is peeing excessively he doesnt think so. I dont really know how much is too much water. They both share two water bowls. I usually dont refill them until dinner. Most of the time they are not completely empty.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Yes, a mass should have shown. I was just telling you my story. I hope it's nothing serious. Have you thought that maybe the summer heat could be the problem? You didn't say how long this has been going on. If you've taken her to the vet since you've noticed this and didn't get satisfactory responses, I would take her to another vet.

Deb is right, at 12 she should have a thorough senior exam. Bonnie is 10, and I have had one done every year since she turned 7, which is considered a senior for dogs - just don't tell Bonnie that, lol!

Oh, just saw your response about this being only a week. I wouldn't be too worried, but I would definitely start measuring (if you can) how much she's drinking. Naturally, you don't have a baseline, but you, as her mom, knows when it's too much.


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Bonnie's Mommie said:


> Yes, a mass should have shown. I was just telling you my story. I hope it's nothing serious. Have you thought that maybe the summer heat could be the problem? You didn't say how long this has been going on. If you've taken her to the vet since you've noticed this and didn't get satisfactory responses, I would take her to another vet.
> 
> Deb is right, at 12 she should have a thorough senior exam. Bonnie is 10, and I have had one done every year since she turned 7, which is considered a senior for dogs - just don't tell Bonnie that, lol!
> 
> Oh, just saw your response about this being only a week. I wouldn't be too worried, but I would definitely start measuring (if you can) how much she's drinking. Naturally, you don't have a baseline, but you, as her mom, knows when it's too much.


She does go for senior checks its been a couple years already is what im trying to say. But no she hasnt been to the vet since I noticed the drinking. I will make an appointment for next week. She is due for a thyroid (T4) test soon anways.

I would say she drinks about 10 oz of water a day.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

S&LP'S Mommy said:


> She does go for senior checks its been a couple years already is what im trying to say. But no she hasnt been to the vet since I noticed the drinking. I will make an appointment for next week. She is due for a thyroid (T4) test soon anways.


Sounds good - please let us know what the vet says!


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Bonnie's Mommie said:


> Sounds good - please let us know what the vet says!


 
Yes of course. Thanks for taking the time to respond.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Mane -- it could also just be the heat. But I would probably have her checked just to be safe. Sending prayers that it's nothing.


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Lacie's Mom said:


> Mane -- it could also just be the heat. But I would probably have her checked just to be safe. Sending prayers that it's nothing.


 
I really hope your right! Thanks.


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## socalyte (Nov 15, 2010)

Isn't it worrisome when we think our little fluffs are not doing well? 

My prayers will be with you, and of course Sasha, that it's nothing serious, or, better yet, nothing at all. Hugs to you.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Though yes, excessive drinking is a 'red-flag' to check for diabetes, it could be caused by anynumber of things including as mentione UTI.
My Missy started with excessive drinking over one week-end and I assumed UTIand got her to the vet the beginning of the following week. In her case it was indeed diabetes not UTI.

Along with the excessive drinking, a loss of weight is often noticed. The reason being, if not enough insulin, the body isn't getting the needed nourishment they need. 
They often show signs of lethargy but not always to the point of being noticeble ( esopecially if only in beginning of the disease.) I had noticed Missy had slowed down but attributed it to her having had knee issues. 
You actually can strips to test if there is glucose in the urine from most pharmacies. They usually cost about $15 for a vial . You just catch some urine, dip the strip in and wait for 30 seconds I think and then match color on the strip to the colors on the bottle label. If no color change its unlikely there is diabetes. If there is ANY change then get her into the vet for blood work to confirm . The sooner its treated the faster and easier you can get her regulated.
IF indeed diabetes is the problem, let me know.... I've 'been-there/done that' and I'll help you all I can.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

For peace of mind I'd be like you and take her in to the vet next week. But I'm hoping it's just this excessive oppressive heat we've had this past week. Has there been any diet or food change? That could cause more or less drinking too. I've been testing these pumpkin cookies on my 3 before deciding to bring them into the store. I love that they are fairly soft for their size but do notice they cause my dogs to drink more when I give them those treats over others because of the formulation...like kibble will cause dogs to drink more then when eating canned, fresh or a dehydrated mix that's reconstituted with water.

Let us know what you find out.


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## MoonDog (Jun 6, 2011)

Hopefully, it isn't diabetes but even if it is, it can be controlled. I test Eli's urine (with a test strip) twice a day before giving him insulin. The worst part for me is when he takes off running to the corner of the yard and hikes on a bush instead of just going on the grass where I can easily get the strip in his stream. Yuck, I know, but we do what we have to for our babies!


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

MoonDog said:


> Hopefully, it isn't diabetes but even if it is, it can be controlled. I test Eli's urine (with a test strip) twice a day before giving him insulin. The worst part for me is when he takes off running to the corner of the yard and hikes on a bush instead of just going on the grass where I can easily get the strip in his stream. Yuck, I know, but we do what we have to for our babies!


Robin, have you considered doing the home blood testing? I was scared at first but when I realized how much more accurate it was over the urine testing I decided to bite the bullet and try it. I used the very top of Missy's tail to do the poke ( used human Freestyle meter...then did a comparison to vet's lab result to get the differential, which in our case averaged 9-12 points different...some at our pet diabetes group experienced higher like 30) . Missy wasn't the least bit phased by the process and in fact would run to the 'procedure-area' when I'd say time to check your blood.....of course the reward after was a great motivation LOL ) Once I got to doing the blood testing at home I was able to keep her BG levels at abt 80 at lowest most times and 170 or so for the highest, and usually consoderably lower. However rarely did she ever go over the renal threshold, and if she did it was because she got into something and I was able to tweak insulin and get it right back down. The tweaking was learned by working with vet who st first guided me as how much adjustment to do. After awhile she said I was good to go on my own.


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

socalyte said:


> Isn't it worrisome when we think our little fluffs are not doing well?
> 
> My prayers will be with you, and of course Sasha, that it's nothing serious, or, better yet, nothing at all. Hugs to you.


Yes it is. I'm a real mess right now. Ive been trying to enjoy this long weekend but seeing her drinking so much worries me so much!



Maidto2Maltese said:


> Though yes, excessive drinking is a 'red-flag' to check for diabetes, it could be caused by anynumber of things including as mentione UTI.
> My Missy started with excessive drinking over one week-end and I assumed UTIand got her to the vet the beginning of the following week. In her case it was indeed diabetes not UTI.
> 
> Along with the excessive drinking, a loss of weight is often noticed. The reason being, if not enough insulin, the body isn't getting the needed nourishment they need.
> ...


I will def stop by the pharmacy tomorrow since I wont know till tuesday what day her Vet will be in. Would you happen to know a good brand for the strips? Should I collect the urine in a cup or should I put the strip when she goes pee pee? 



Crystal&Zoe said:


> For peace of mind I'd be like you and take her in to the vet next week. But I'm hoping it's just this excessive oppressive heat we've had this past week. Has there been any diet or food change? That could cause more or less drinking too. I've been testing these pumpkin cookies on my 3 before deciding to bring them into the store. I love that they are fairly soft for their size but do notice they cause my dogs to drink more when I give them those treats over others because of the formulation...like kibble will cause dogs to drink more then when eating canned, fresh or a dehydrated mix that's reconstituted with water.
> 
> Let us know what you find out.


She is on a combination of homecooked, weruva and recently stella n chewys. No kibble. 




MoonDog said:


> Hopefully, it isn't diabetes but even if it is, it can be controlled. I test Eli's urine (with a test strip) twice a day before giving him insulin. The worst part for me is when he takes off running to the corner of the yard and hikes on a bush instead of just going on the grass where I can easily get the strip in his stream. Yuck, I know, but we do what we have to for our babies!


 
I understand it can be controlled but it scares me since she is already 12. I want my baby to be around for a long time. Up to now her vets have said she is in great health other than Hypothyroid which is easily controlled.


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

I just went through her medical records and noticed her blood glucose was tested in May when we made an emergency vet visit out in long island in the middle of night bc she bumped her head. They check her glucose and it was 84.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Since her glucose was only 84 in May, diabetes is probably not an issue but also cannot be 100% ruled out. Since diabetes can 'kick in' at any time. If there has not been weight loss, it too, would also make diabetes unlikely.

If however you want to test for some peace of mind, the most commonly used urine test strip is Bayer's "Diastix" and if the pharmacy is out you can also use Bayer's "Keto-Diastix". The latter has 2 test pads, one for glucose and one for ketones.( Ketones are monitored when blood glucose is very high and why many use these when diabetes is a known factor.)


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## MoonDog (Jun 6, 2011)

Maidto2Maltese said:


> Robin, have you considered doing the home blood testing? I was scared at first but when I realized how much more accurate it was over the urine testing I decided to bite the bullet and try it. I used the very top of Missy's tail to do the poke ( used human Freestyle meter...then did a comparison to vet's lab result to get the differential, which in our case averaged 9-12 points different...some at our pet diabetes group experienced higher like 30) . Missy wasn't the least bit phased by the process and in fact would run to the 'procedure-area' when I'd say time to check your blood.....of course the reward after was a great motivation LOL ) Once I got to doing the blood testing at home I was able to keep her BG levels at abt 80 at lowest most times and 170 or so for the highest, and usually consoderably lower. However rarely did she ever go over the renal threshold, and if she did it was because she got into something and I was able to tweak insulin and get it right back down. The tweaking was learned by working with vet who st first guided me as how much adjustment to do. After awhile she said I was good to go on my own.


 
Home blood testing was never discussed by my vet :huh:! He just had me use the strips and I add or subtract according to the color on the strip. Since it's been three years and he's doing so well, I'll continue with this. Thanks for letting me know about the other option though!


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Maidto2Maltese said:


> Since her glucose was only 84 in May, diabetes is probably not an issue but also cannot be 100% ruled out. Since diabetes can 'kick in' at any time. If there has not been weight loss, it too, would also make diabetes unlikely.
> 
> If however you want to test for some peace of mind, the most commonly used urine test strip is Bayer's "Diastix" and if the pharmacy is out you can also use Bayer's "Keto-Diastix". The latter has 2 test pads, one for glucose and one for ketones.( Ketones are monitored when blood glucose is very high and why many use these when diabetes is a known factor.)


There has been no weight loss actually she has gain weight since Lola's arrival. In the beginning I wasnt very good at keeping her away from Lolas puppy kibble which is so high in fat. 

I will stop by the pharmacy today and hopefully they have either one in stock. No matter what I think its best to give her vet a little visit this week. Thanks so much for your help.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Blood work from 3+ months ago is not a good reflection of your dog's health today, especially in an older dog.


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

jmm said:


> Blood work from 3+ months ago is not a good reflection of your dog's health today, especially in an older dog.


 
I understand thanks. I was just sharing the results.


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Sasha has a 10am appointment tomorrow at vets. I will post when I have some news. I really hope it isnt diabetes!


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## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

Hoping things go well at the vet and the drinking was just due to heat!


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## MoonDog (Jun 6, 2011)

Praying for good results!


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Will be looking for your update after the vet appointment and praying there's nothing of any concern!


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Hunter's Mom said:


> Hoping things go well at the vet and the drinking was just due to heat!





MoonDog said:


> Praying for good results!





Maidto2Maltese said:


> Will be looking for your update after the vet appointment and praying there's nothing of any concern!


 
Thank you al for your well wishes.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

You're back from the vets? ( think you said appt was for 10AM today... sooo .. any opinion from the Dr?.. are you awaiting blood work results? ( concerned minds need to know LOL )


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

*Update*

Just got back from the Vet. The vet wasn't to alarmed. I told her Sasha was drinking about 10 oz of water a day. (10 oz is actually just above the normal range falls into the grey area) She believes it might be her Hypothyroid acting up. So she will recheck her thyroid in two weeks. She didnt think it could be a UTI since she is peeing big amounts at a time and not lil pees or having accidents. She suggested I waited two weeks to do both a CBC and a T4 on the same day since Sasha has a history of brusing easily. BUT!! I told her I couldnt wait that I was a nervous wreck and wanted results quicker. So she agreed to doing the CBC and a UA. I will have the results by tomorrow morning. She said it was extremely rare for a dog that didnt have Cushings to develop diabetes at this age.


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Maidto2Maltese said:


> You're back from the vets? ( think you said appt was for 10AM today... sooo .. any opinion from the Dr?.. are you awaiting blood work results? ( concerned minds need to know LOL )


 
We both must've been typing at the same time. I should have bloodwork results and UA results tomorrow.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Though not saying that I think it "Is" diabetes, .. it is really not that uncommon for a pooch to get diabetes at pretty much any age. A tiny dog being just 2 pounds overweight can be a 'trigger'.( Also we've had many pooches at our pet-diabetes site get it at 10yrs. or more). Granted some ,if not overweight, had been on a steroid for allergy etc or a bout with pancreatitis either of which too seems to be a contributing factor.... and there is the ole genetic factor in poorly bred pooches, so yes it CAN and does kick in at almost any age. 
Just want to clairify I'm NOT suggesting any of the 'reasons' I posted have to do with your little girl ; ) ...Just stating for matter of info.


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Maidto2Maltese said:


> Though not saying that I think it "Is" diabetes, .. it is really not that uncommon for a pooch to get diabetes at pretty much any age. A tiny dog being just 2 pounds overweight can be a 'trigger'.( Also we've had many pooches at our pet-diabetes site get it at 10yrs. or more). Granted some ,if not overweight, had been on a steroid for allergy etc or a bout with pancreatitis either of which too seems to be a contributing factor.... and there is the ole genetic factor in poorly bred pooches, so yes it CAN and does kick in at almost any age.
> Just want to clairify I'm NOT suggesting any of the 'reasons' I posted have to do with your little girl ; ) ...Just stating for matter of info.


 
Thanks for pointing that out. It doesnt matter I wasnt comfortable with overlooking this. So the test were done now i just have to wait to get the results and hope for the best.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

When checking her thyroid level, you may want to ask for your vet to send it to Dr. Jean Dodd's lab. She's doing more extensive research into what are 'normal' levels for different ages, sexes, whether they are spayed/neutered etc. For example, most labs lump them all together and levels will be very different for say a 2 yr old spayed Maltese vs. a 7 yr old un-neutered Akita. There was a great web interview between Dr. Dodds and Dr. Becker last month talking about how often thyroid issues go undiagnosed until at least 75% of the pituitary gland has been damaged because that's when it's finally getting caught at regular labs.


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> When checking her thyroid level, you may want to ask for your vet to send it to Dr. Jean Dodd's lab. She's doing more extensive research into what are 'normal' levels for different ages, sexes, whether they are spayed/neutered etc. For example, most labs lump them all together and levels will be very different for say a 2 yr old spayed Maltese vs. a 7 yr old un-neutered Akita. There was a great web interview between Dr. Dodds and Dr. Becker last month talking about how often thyroid issues go undiagnosed until at least 75% of the pituitary gland has been damaged because that's when it's finally getting caught at regular labs.


 
She was diagnosed with Hypothyroid 3 years ago and was put on . 2 mg of synthyroid twice a day that was changed in Feb. to .1mg of levothyroxine one a day. 

Should I still ask for them to send it? How does that even work? Sorry I'm a bit confused.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

You're getting great advice from some experienced folks here, so I'll just add my good thoughts for you and Sasha.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I'm not sure why your vet would do a CBC without a chemistry panel??? A CBC does not evaluate blood glucose or the kidneys.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

jmm said:


> I'm not sure why your vet would do a CBC without a chemistry panel??? A CBC does not evaluate blood glucose or the kidneys.


Gosh I missed that...but then I'm so used to having both done as the 'norm' when blood is drawn for panel.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Mane -- still praying for your and Sasha and hoping that nothing is seriously wrong.


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

jmm said:


> I'm not sure why your vet would do a CBC without a chemistry panel??? A CBC does not evaluate blood glucose or the kidneys.





Maidto2Maltese said:


> Gosh I missed that...but then I'm so used to having both done as the 'norm' when blood is drawn for panel.


 Im pretty sure they are doing a complete chem panel. Does Antech Vetscreen = chem panel?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Yep! A vetscreen is a chemistry panel.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Mane -- have you gotten any results yet?


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

*Chem panel/UA/CBC results*

Sorry I just got home from work. Havent spoken to the vet personally but she left a voicemail and I called the office and had the results emailed to me.

SO everything came back pretty normal. 

Chem panel: All levels were normal except for Alkaline Phosphate which came back at 150 U/L was 144 U/L in Feb normal range is from 5-131 U/L so its not to high. Other than that everything in the chem panel is in normal range

CBC: everything came back normal

UA: PH 7.5 high
SP gravity: 1.015 (bottom range normal) (almost to low)
negative for protein, glucose, ketones, bilirubin

So I think we r in the clear?? If anyone has any thoughts please let me know. 

I want to do my best to do everything in reach to keep my baby healthy.


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

*Creatine level*

One thing I forgot to mention was her creatine level went up from 0.6mg/dl to 1.0mg/dl.

Also does anyone know if I should be worried that her ph is high?(range 5.5-7.0) Im guessing its bc her urine is diluted due to her water intake. 

In the voicemail the vet pretty much attributes everything to the Hypothyroism. We will test her tyroid (t4) in two wks.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Mane - I have no idea about this health issue but just sending thoughts and prayers your way. You are such a great advocate for Sasha. Hoping all will be okay. :grouphug:


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Snowbody said:


> Mane - I have no idea about this health issue but just sending thoughts and prayers your way. You are such a great advocate for Sasha. Hoping all will be okay. :grouphug:


Thank you so much. I would do anything in my power for her. She has been with me half of my life.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

When things are basically just a bit off the norm I don't think there is a cause for major concern. Glad the diabetes has been ruled out :aktion033: and as vet stated may well be due to the thyroid ( I really don't have much knowledge of thyroid issues)

You're a great Mom... your little girl is blessed to have you watching out for her well being!


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Maidto2Maltese said:


> When things are basically just a bit off the norm I don't think there is a cause for major concern. Glad the diabetes has been ruled out :aktion033: and as vet stated may well be due to the thyroid ( I really don't have much knowledge of thyroid issues)
> 
> You're a great Mom... your little girl is blessed to have you watching out for her well being!


 
Yea I think I can stop worrying now. I will recheck her thyroid in two wks and see what we do from there. Maybe raise her dosage. But yes what a relief its not Diabetes! 

Thanks so much for your help!


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

So happy to hear your good results. Enjoy your little one and try to stop worrying. You have done everything to make sure everything is ok. :grouphug:


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

silverhaven said:


> So happy to hear your good results. Enjoy your little one and try to stop worrying. You have done everything to make sure everything is ok. :grouphug:


 
I will! We are all just enjoying her company! We love her soooo much!


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