# Shipping your fluff?



## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

There have been some posts recently about shipping a puppy long distances. The best way to transport a fluff any distance is in the cabin with you in an approved crate or carrier. You can make certain it's not too hot or cold and monitor how the fluff is doing, but even then, it's a stressful experience.

Shipping the fluff in the cargo hold can be extremely risky. While the airlines are quick to point out that while thousands of dogs are shipped in cargo each year, "only" a handful of deaths and injuries are reported, that's too many, especially if one of those babies is yours.

Anyone who is considering shipping a puppy should understand that unless a human (either ticket-paying or off-duty airline employee traveling free) accompanies the dog, the fluff will go in cargo as baggage. The airlines have regulations that are intended to lessen the risk, but it is not a 100% safe journey, as the links below describe. 

Is Taking Your Pet on an Airplane Worth the Risk? | Off the Road

Second dog death prompts concerns about safety of pets on planes - NBC News.com

Fewer pet deaths on planes but more injuries in 2012 | The Jet Set Pets

Travel Safely with Your Pet by Car, Airplane, Ship, or Train : The Humane Society of the United States


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Good information! It's good to be aware of the risk before you make a decision.


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## TLR (Nov 13, 2011)

Great post Maggie


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## Cassievt (Apr 24, 2013)

Thank you for this post. I can't believe anyone would do this. It is animal cruelty. 


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Thanks, Maggie. I would never ship a dog,especially a small one, in cargo. To me it's like saying put my child in cargo. That ain't gonna happen!!! I've heard too many nightmares of parents who lost their dogs to it, either too hot or too cold. I must way even when Tyler went in the cabin with me, the floors are really cold so I put a snuggly blanket in for take off and landing when his carrier wasn't on my lap or the snack table


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

TLR said:


> Great post Maggie


Yes it is. And way more tactful then I was. :blush:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I have lived abroad since 1974 and I have traveled the world w/my pups---even Africa---but I have NEVER had a pup in cargo---never. I guess I just know too many true stories.


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

Well, I think it's great that you are all trying to pass on information you have read, and I know that this is referred to those of us who are having our puppies shipped from Shinemore in Korea. 

Truth is that Narae Lee is a very reputable breeder for a reason. She has never lost a puppy and she wouldn't risk her good reputation. Korean Airlines has a cargo hold special for live animals. It is well lit, air conditioned, and heated. She uses a special service called "First Class Pets" to ship the dogs for the past 15 years. Also, the puppies fly during their night time and they sleep through it all. Dogs have to travel world wide to able to compete in dog shows, and most of them have to go in the cargo anyways. Just thought I'd point that out...


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Great post. Completely Agree. I think, that a good bit of Reputable breeders, do have a "nanny" service. If you are unable to go to the breeder and vice versa.

I can't tell, but if this isn't a "sticky post", it sure should be, will I am sure help many.

Oh, just wanted to add, I don't get on here often, and my thoughts that I shared are general, as it relates to this topic.


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## S&LP'S Mommy (Feb 20, 2011)

allheart said:


> Great post. Completely Agree. I think, that a good bit of Reputable breeders, do have a "nanny" service. If you are unable to go to the breeder and vice versa.
> 
> I can't tell, but if this isn't a "sticky post", it sure should be, will I am sure help many.
> 
> Oh, just wanted to add, I don't get on here often, and my thoughts that I shared are general, as it relates to this topic.



Glad to see your posting again. I love all the pics you have shared of your fluffs in the past. Hope you are here to stay!


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## Ruby (Nov 5, 2013)

Well said fluffdoll!!! I think its best to educate ourselves before we judge other people!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I did communicate w/your Korean breeder before discovering that there was an export in Europe from this line who had been bred & I could get one of those puppies w/out shipping. I found the breeder in Korea to be easy to work with, but the distance was prohibitive for ME. When Kitzel developed issues w/walking I tried to find out if other puppies from this line had issues & suddenly the breeder's English was not good enough to communicate w/me. I speak from first-hand personal experience.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I wanted to add that small dogs who compete in dogs shows can fly in the cabin--not cargo. Large dog breeds fly cargo---it is "safer" for large dogs, but things still happen.


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## StevieB (Feb 2, 2012)

As I understand it, the problems occur if the plane is on the ground for too long due to delays and it gets too hot (I read that most cargo areas are heated, but not air conditioned). But puppies are shipped all the time domestically and internationally with great success. However, I have no doubt it is quite a stressful experience for them! I've never had a dog shipped but I assume most of them come out of it unscathed.

Marisol, I think you said there will be a layover at some point in your puppy's trip so someone will attend to her? I think that is going to be the longest day of your life!


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

StevieB said:


> As I understand it, the problems occur if the plane is on the ground for too long due to delays and it gets too hot (I read that most cargo areas are heated, but not air conditioned). But puppies are shipped all the time domestically and internationally with great success. However, I have no doubt it is quite a stressful experience for them! I've never had a dog shipped but I assume most of them come out of it unscathed.
> 
> Marisol, I think you said there will be a layover at some point in your puppy's trip so someone will attend to her? I think that is going to be the longest day of your life!


Yes, Celeta. There will a stop at an airport with pet hotel and a vet who tends to the animals that come in, so she can eat, and relieve herself. It does worry me a bit that she will be flying all by herself... but like you said it's done all the time with success. She will be placed in a special area for pets that is actually air-conditioned, so the heat doesn't worry me like it would on a regular plane. Her stressing is what worries me the most, I just hope she sleeps through most of it! 

Well, I am trying to remain positive and I have my faith in God. I leave this in His hands, and I know He will watch over Kimmy...


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

Ireland has the rule that no dog(except assistance dogs, I believe) can fly into the country in the cabin 
I really think it is an awful rule and means Milo can go no where with me


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Climate controls are not as well regulated as we are led to believe. 

A puppy will not sleep for 15+ hours. 

Toy breed show dogs are most often flown in cabin with the handler or breeder. If they are flown in cargo, they are adults or old enough to not worry about hypoglycemia. 15+ hours is too long for a toy breed puppy to go without food. 


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

Orla said:


> Ireland has the rule that no dog(except assistance dogs, I believe) can fly into the country in the cabin
> I really think it is an awful rule and means Milo can go no where with me


Many countries here in Latin America have that same rule. So, yes, many _small_ show dogs have been forced to fly in the cargo...


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Climate controls are not as well regulated as we are led to believe.
> 
> A puppy will not sleep for 15+ hours.
> 
> ...


She won't go 15+ hours without food... I already mentioned she is making a stop where a vet will feed her.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I've shipped a number of dogs and never had an issue.


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## Ruby (Nov 5, 2013)

The dogs will have food and water in the crate. I have shipped 2 dogs and everything was fine


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm so sorry, I think I am getting it now, someone is getting a furbaby flown to them? Sorry, I thought it was a General topic. I probably shouldn't have post , but did want to tell Maggie, great post, and maybe make it a sticky. 

I don't know who is getting a baby from where, and honest to anything I don't want to make anyone nervous. 

For me, I don't think I could live through it, even though it seems, some had no problems. It just wouldn't change, my choice.

I wonder, for those who have had success, meaning everything went well, how was the furbaby? Were they anxious or anything? Does Cargo mean the puppy is in with the luggage? 

Why am I still talking? It just wouldn't be my comfort level.

It's a shame, that it seems there is interest in getting puppies from long distances, that the airlines don't hire people, to stay with the puppy, in a seat.

I'm still talking, sorry :blush:


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

I have a friend who works for one of the major airlines. She said people would be shocked to know the horrific things that have happened to many pets who have flown cargo. We just don't, nor are we going to hear about it. I, personally cannot imagine any pet, especially a dog or cat, not feeling traumatized flying cargo.


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

I bet it's stressful. But for what it's worth, dogs go through a lot of stressful events. Even the sound of a truck was stressful to Gustave when he first came to us, now he's used to it. 

I think there are some cases when it's inevitable. If I was leaving the country and my only option to take my dogs with me was to fly them cargo, I wouldn't leave them behind. 

Little anecdote, I once had a betta flown in from Thailand. Bettas lose their color and shine when they are stressed. This beautiful fish was dull and grey when he got here. 

Again, it's not preferred. I wouldn't fly my dogs cargo for a vacation, but sometimes you might not have a choice. 



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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I have a friend who works for one of the major airlines. She said people would be shocked to know the horrific things that have happened to many pets who have flown cargo. We just don't, nor are we going to hear about it. I, personally cannot imagine any pet, especially a dog or cat, not feeling traumatized flying cargo.


I wanted to add that apparently sometimes the damage is done to pets even before they reach cargo ... I mean during the luggage handling process itself. Have you ever been sitting in your seat on a plane, and before waiting for take-off ... watching how luggage itself it being handled before being placed in the cargo section? Yes, airlines might tell you that your pet will be handled with TLC ... but, lets's put it this way ... TLC can have different meanings to different folks.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

For me, personally, I would only consider shipping cargo if I thought the temperament of the puppy could handle it. Within the US, I have only shipped with a courier that takes the puppies in the cabin and have not done any international shipping yet.

I am getting a puppy from the Netherlands though in a few months and while the logistics have not been worked out, i will try my hardest to avoid the puppy being flown cargo, even it if costs a fortune to ship with a courier service.


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## Maizy Moo's Mum (Jul 4, 2012)

bellaratamaltese said:


> For me, personally, I would only consider shipping cargo if I thought the temperament of the puppy could handle it. Within the US, I have only shipped with a courier that takes the puppies in the cabin and have not done any international shipping yet.
> 
> I am getting a puppy from the Netherlands though in a few months and while the logistics have not been worked out, i will try my hardest to avoid the puppy being flown cargo, even it if costs a fortune to ship with a courier service.


I'm pretty sure KLM out of the Netherlands you can fly with a dog in the cabin so fingers crossed you can work something out!

Within the uk you can't travel with dogs in the cabin I so wish we could therefore I wouldn't take Maizy anywhere!! 

I think its a v long flight for us let alone a dog, yes they are in a separate hold to the luggage and airconditioned and also pressurised to the same level as the cabin but it must be scary!! Recently I did a delayed New York flight and the engineer came on board to get some bottles of water for the 2 dogs that were in the hold and he sat with them until we could take off, he had dogs himself therefore understood! The couple were relocating to New York and didnt want to leave there dogs very justifiable.

For those that are shopping dogs coming up I pray these little ones cope well and that you are ok my that will be a long day! 




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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I am not judging anyone for shipping cargo---in fact as I think back on it we did ship a little guy from Germany to England once in cargo---into quarantine---it was the only way to get him there (short flight but we did not want to do it---we could not leave him behind). He was not in good health & did not live a long life after coming out of kennel. This was not due to the shipping but to his health issues. 

Going in the cabin is also sometimes not ideal---sometimes the planes are too hot for me & I am not wearing a fur coat---take off time delayed, etc. The cabin crew can make all the difference & sometimes someone of them is not positive toward animals. I have had both kinds. Some of my biggest fights in life have been on airplanes---that is where I have been the "maddest" too! My true personality comes out when I feel the pup is in danger and the crew want to simply "obey the laws." 

I think going w. someone is still the safest, but it isn't always possible. Let's all say a prayer for the safety and well-being of those little ones who fly the skies.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Of course there may be times due to life circumstances that someone may need to fly their dog in cargo in order to keep them. But that's different then intentionally purchasing a puppy from the other side of the world when there are options much closer. As to wearing a fur coat and being too warm in cabin, since they don't have an undercoat and more like human hair, they will be warm or cold when we are. But that hair won't protect them in cargo if temperatures are not well monitored. 

Puppies enter a fear period somewhere around week 13. We can all imagine the stress flying in cargo would cause. And if a puppy is afraid, air sick, etc... they are not going to eat or drink. We have episodes here on SM where a puppy has been in their own home and gone hypoglycemic. Having a vet who is a stranger try to get a puppy to eat while on a layover is a joke IMO. 


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I have a friend who works for one of the major airlines. She said people would be shocked to know the horrific things that have happened to many pets who have flown cargo. We just don't, nor are we going to hear about it. I, personally cannot imagine any pet, especially a dog or cat, not feeling traumatized flying cargo.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who has heard this from friends who also work for major airlines. They all tell me they would never ship a dog in cargo unless there was absolutely no other way.


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## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

I was once in the airport and there was a medium sized dog that was being "shipped". That dog was terrified! His eyes were huge and the look was completely heartbreaking. I knew at that moment that shipping a dog was never going to be for me. As someone else said...I wouldn't ship my kid and I'm not going to ship a dog. They are not luggage. Just my opinion.


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## Dominic (Nov 4, 2012)

Alright, we all have our opinions and inside edition stories plus personal preferences. I wouldn't put myself thru the stress of shipping a dog to me and couldn't imagine putting the dog under that kind of stress. 

Yet, I'm from another country and it takes 3 flights and 23/24 hours to get there - if I ever want to move back my dogs will go with me. If cargo were to be the only option It then would be. 

Let's we all respect and understand other people preferences even when it goes against our own. There has to be a line between being passionate about something and being annoying my good people! 



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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

edelweiss said:


> I did communicate w/your Korean breeder before discovering that there was an export in Europe from this line who had been bred & I could get one of those puppies w/out shipping. I found the breeder in Korea to be easy to work with, but the distance was prohibitive for ME. When Kitzel developed issues w/walking I tried to find out if other puppies from this line had issues & suddenly the breeder's English was not good enough to communicate w/me. I speak from first-hand personal experience.


Sandi I truly appreciate your sharing this. This is what so many of us have been concerned about when going to a breeder from another country and there could be communication problems, real or used as an excuse. As well as how can a breeder who is half way around the world really help you? And to my knowledge, no one has ever been to either of these breeders place. And I'm not even sure if anyone has actually met one of the breeders personally. I find it disconcerting that both of these breeders have puppies available at all times. It doesn't seem that there is a waiting list like there can be with many other breeders. Has anyone tried to purchase from either of these breeders and been told they have no puppies at the moment but have a litter planned for 6 months from now? And since there has been very little true contact with these breeders, has anyone ever found out what happens to their retirees? What happens to any puppies that don't get sold? I'm trying to be careful here to not slander any names or be disrespectful of other countries and what is deemed acceptable practices. But does anyone know what is customary for show breeders in Korea? It may very well be just like here in the US or even better. I just don't know.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

I wish it were true, but it is unrealistic to think nighttime has anything to do with when a puppy will sleep, esp on a plane in cargo. Shoot, my new puppies slept day & were up often at night while they were adjusting to first leaving the liter. And they were with me.


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## luvsmalts (Oct 21, 2008)

I had Boomer flown to me from his breeder he was 18 weeks old. He had to change planes in Houston and that resulted in a 5 hour delay. I was to pick him up in Atlanta at 12pm which was changed to 5pm. The petsafe program kept me informed of his whereabouts and that he was given water and was in there kennel area during the delay.
Luckily he arrived safe, happy and clean, I would say he was in better shape than I was. He still uses his kennel that he traveled in, it's his favorite sleeping place.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

I have really mixed emotions about this subject. 

As many of you know, I was one of the top Lhasa breeders for many years and I often shipped puppies (at least 6 months old) overseas and in the U.S. Also most of my top show dogs were flown (with their hander) to shows every weekend and often in the cargo section.

I have shipped puppies to Europe, South America, the Phillipines, Thailand and Japan a number of times and have never had a problem. Also, I've had dogs shipped to me from these same places without a problem.

Gambler (Mult. BIS, BISS Ch. LynnLaine's The Gambler) was shown as a top winning Special for more than 4 years. He HATED being stuffed into a bag and flown inside the cabin. But, when shipped in cargo, he would sleep, rest and come out of the plane happy and ready to show. On the other hand when Roulette (Mult BIS, BISS Ch. LynnLaine's Roulette) was being shown as a Special for almost 3 years, she much preferred going into the cabin with her handler. 

As far as the 3 Malts I have, I don't believe that Lacie, and most especially Tilly, would do well in cargo and have never (and won't) fly them in cargo -- only in-cabin with me. Secret, on the other hand, has been flown in cargo several times -- both in her show career and when Bonnie shipped her to me and she seems to do just fine. But, still I prefer having her in cabin with me.

So -- I do believe that most fluffs do OK in cargo -- some even prefer it. But, when possible I will fly my current fluffs in cabin with me.


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

Lacie's Mom said:


> I have really mixed emotions about this subject.
> 
> As many of you know, I was one of the top Lhasa breeders for many years and I often shipped puppies (at least 6 months old) overseas and in the U.S. Also most of my top show dogs were flown (with their hander) to shows every weekend and often in the cargo section.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this post Lynn! I agree with you, of course if I was flying with my girls, they would go in the cabin with me. 

But many people are trying to give me a hard time because I'm having my fluff shipped in the cargo, and honestly, it's getting really annoying...
There's no difference in them being in the cargo than in the cabin with the exception that they would be alone, because like already I said the temperature is controlled in this airplane. If it wasn't, Korean Air wouldn't be allow her to be shipped. Narea Lee has NEVER lost a dog. And she has done this MANY times and all the dogs do just fine.


I remember when I moved to Panama from Florida, Dolce couldn't come on the same plane as me. The airline informed me the cargo would be too hot and they wouldn't risk an animal's life. So he came separately on a plane that had a special place for pets with controlled temperature. Of course, the flight was much shorter than it will be for Kimmy, and he did fine. Kelly was shipped to my sister in Venezuela when I bought her, and she flew by herself in a special place for pets too. Most airlines have stopped letting dogs come on there if there's a chance of them dying, and I know this because of the multiple times I've traveled overseas with my dogs. When Kelly came to Panama with me, she did go in the cabin which is obvisouly preferred because I can be right next to her. But really, she's not allowed out of her carrier anyways, so what's the difference with her being in a place with air-conditioning by herself? Most of you who keep saying the temperature isn't controlled are obviously uninformed about Korean Air, Narae Lee, and the travel agency she uses that ships dogs WORLD WIDE for over 15 years. They have a good reputation for a reason, and the airline would not let a dog go on their if the plane didn't have this. If not, all the dogs that she's sent would have arrived dead!


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

As I've said, in my opinion, it really depends on temperament. I've had some bomb proof puppies that I know would just look at it as one big adventure and more people people to say hello to while I've had others that I feel shipping cargo could do some permanent fear damage. It boils down to being able to trust the breeder that she/he can assess the individual puppy and make the correct decisions that will benefit that pup. 

I don't think it is our place to tell people they should look closer to home to avoid shipping in cargo.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Marisol -- Again -- I've probably shipped more fluffs than anyone else here on SM. And I've shipped both internationally and in the U.S. I used to bring in Lhasas to be held for a few months for breeding and I used to send Lhasas to Thailand all the time to be shown all over Asia and then they were shipped back to me -- usually into Minneapolis, although I shipped into LAX, JFK, and Miami and Houston from overseas and in the U.S. from whatever airport I was near. At certain times of year in various locations, you have to be very cautious of the temperatures -- but the airlines won't allow you to ship fluffs when the temps are too hot or too cold.

*If you've never been involved in shipping a dog, either here in the U.S. or especially internationally, then what you have to say is just speculation.* I have real, actual experience and have NEVER had a issue and wouldn't hesitate to ship fluffs if needed.

Marisol -- I'm sorry that you're getting so much "heat" for getting your puppy from Narae Lee. I know that she uses a shipping service that is first rate and that she's never lost or had a problem with a fluff that she's shipped.

Personally I can't wait to see pictures of your new baby.


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

When I got Milo from the UK - I did fly over to get him, but he was not allowed to stay with me in the cabin. They took him when we checked in (and I could hear him cry and cry ) and put him with some other luggage in a tiny "room" beside the bathroom in the plane - still technically in the cabin, and the flight attendants could go check on him but I was still terrified. I know that now this airline is not allowed to do this any more - all dogs must fly in cargo.

Personally, I wouldn't let him fly in cargo - I don't think he would cope well - maybe I am wrong, but I wouldn't take the risk. I actually spoke to his breeder about this not too long ago - she also said it would depend on the temperament of the puppy/dog.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

I doubt all injuries or deaths of pets have happened while in the cargo area of the plane ... I think it can happen while a pet is being loaded or unloaded into and out of the cargo hold. 

Unfortunately it does happen, and airlines are named ... just read the links Maggie provided. 

Below is a link that I think provides a lot of good information and tips for those who choose to consider airline cargo for their pets.

http://www.wikihow.com/Minimize-Risk-to-a-Pet-in-the-Cargo-Area-of-an-Airplaner


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I doubt all injuries or deaths of pets have happened while in the cargo area of the plane ... I think it can happen while a pet is being loaded or unloaded into and out of the cargo hold.
> 
> Unfortunately it does happen, and airlines are named ... just read the links Maggie provided.
> 
> ...


Well, now on my i-Pad the link won't show up for me. It did on my Mac. If you google in ... How to minimize risk in the cargo area of an airplane ... the link shlould come up for anyone interested in reading it.


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

Lacie's Mom said:


> Marisol -- Again -- I've probably shipped more fluffs than anyone else here on SM. And I've shipped both internationally and in the U.S. I used to bring in Lhasas to be held for a few months for breeding and I used to send Lhasas to Thailand all the time to be shown all over Asia and then they were shipped back to me -- usually into Minneapolis, although I shipped into LAX, JFK, and Miami and Houston from overseas and in the U.S. from whatever airport I was near. At certain times of year in various locations, you have to be very cautious of the temperatures -- but the airlines won't allow you to ship fluffs when the temps are too hot or too cold.
> 
> *If you've never been involved in shipping a dog, either here in the U.S. or especially internationally, then what you have to say is just speculation.* I have real, actual experience and have NEVER had a issue and wouldn't hesitate to ship fluffs if needed.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:
Lynn, thank you so much for sharing your experience as a show breeder who has shipped her fluffs internationally. I tried to explain earlier on here how this is done by show breeders all the time, and some people were contradicting me, saying they would only do it with couriers. I'm glad that a show breeder has given a positive testimony of her experience. I hope it gives people something to think about before they speculate and talk. Thanks again for this post!


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

bellaratamaltese said:


> As I've said, in my opinion, it really depends on temperament. I've had some bomb proof puppies that I know would just look at it as one big adventure and more people people to say hello to while I've had others that I feel shipping cargo could do some permanent fear damage. It boils down to being able to trust the breeder that she/he can assess the individual puppy and make the correct decisions that will benefit that pup.
> 
> *I don't think it is our place to tell people they should look closer to home to avoid shipping in cargo.*


Good post! Although, I wish everyone would apply what's in red! :mellow:


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Fluffdoll said:


> :goodpost:
> Lynn, thank you so much for sharing your experience as a show breeder who has shipped her fluffs internationally. I tried to explain earlier on here how this is done by show breeders all the time, and some people were contradicting me, saying they would only do it with couriers. I'm glad that a show breeder has given a positive testimony of her experience. I hope it gives people something to think about before they speculate and talk. Thanks again for this post!





Fluffdoll said:


> Good post! Although, I wish everyone would apply what's in red! :mellow:


I think people have just been sharing their thoughts as to what they would do ... and, there is nothing wrong with that. 

And, if one has time to go back and read posts from at least one SM thread .... one will read that at least one well known breeder (by name) will not ship their puppies via cargo ... they will only arrange for someone to fly with the puppy in the airplane cabin with them, in order to deliver the puppy to the new owner/family. 

I am not judging anyone personally. However, I will judge airlines by their safety records for both humans and pets. The facts speak for themself. The facts are not speculation and talk ... the facts are the facts, period.


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I think people have just been sharing their thoughts as to what they would do ... and, there is nothing wrong with that.
> 
> And, if one has time to go back and read posts from at least one SM thread .... one will read that at least one well known breeder (by name) will not ship their puppies via cargo ... they will only arrange for someone to fly with the puppy in the airplane cabin with them, in order to deliver the puppy to the new owner/family.
> 
> I am not judging anyone personally. However, I will judge airlines by their safety records for both humans and pets. The facts speak for themself. The facts are not speculation and talk ... the facts are the facts, period.


What facts? Tell me of one person who has shipped their dog from Korean Air and it came to them dead? Not all airplanes are the same, or airlines... 

I never said there was anything wrong with people sharing their thoughts and what they would do. Nor was I even referring to you. I don't mind people sharing experiences. But others have said hurtful and judgmental things, such as calling me and someone else on here "cruel" and "irresponsible" for shipping our fluffs. And I do wish they would keep to themselves such negative comments. It doesn't affect me, or hurt me, I'm just annoyed lol. 
But I know this other person on here is very hurt by these commentaries and is feeling attacked.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Fluffdoll said:


> What facts? Tell me of one person who has shipped their dog from Korean Air and it came to them dead? Not all airplanes are the same, or airlines...
> 
> I never said there was anything wrong with people sharing their thoughts and what they would do. Nor was I even referring to you. I don't mind people sharing experiences. But others have said hurtful and judgmental things, such as calling me and someone else on here "cruel" and "irresponsible" for shipping our fluffs. And I do wish they would keep to themselves such negative comments. It doesn't affect me, or hurt me, I'm just annoyed lol.
> But I know this other person on here is very hurt by these commentaries and is feeling attacked.


I could look closer to home for Marina's new show puppy and not go overseas but I want a puppy from one of the top breeders and it will require the puppy to have to travel to the US. It's not a maltese but is another toy breed so will have to be just as careful.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

It is my very humble opinion that it depends very much on the airline. I read something today about dogs shipped in cargo while their people were onboard. But that was United Airlines. I will no way fly United. If I have to pay more for another airline, I will, to avoid United. Honestly, we can never be one hundred percent secure, but I think that if you want to send a dog in cargo, it matters very much on the reputation of the airline.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Fluffdoll said:


> What facts? Tell me of one person who has shipped their dog from Korean Air and it came to them dead? Not all airplanes are the same, or airlines...
> 
> I never said there was anything wrong with people sharing their thoughts and what they would do. Nor was I even referring to you. I don't mind people sharing experiences. But others have said hurtful and judgmental things, such as calling me and someone else on here "cruel" and "irresponsible" for shipping our fluffs. And I do wish they would keep to themselves such negative comments. It doesn't affect me, or hurt me, I'm just annoyed lol.
> But I know this other person on here is very hurt by these commentaries and is feeling attacked.


I was not referring to Korean Air. I was talking about the facts of specific airlines in the US ... the names of the airlines, with injuries and deaths that have occurred on an annual basis ... the names of the airlines and details for each airline are listed in one of the links Maggie provided in her initial post. 

I totally agree with you that not all airlines are the same. In fact ... and I hate to say this ... but, I think there are foreign airlines that are putting most of our US airlines to shame right now. 

Please know that in no way am I judging you, nor anyone else ... I only wish you the best. :tender:

And, just in case you don't know it ... I love Lynn. (she knows that) And, although I haven't met Stacy in person yet, I know she is a wonderful breeder of Maltese.

For myself though, Snowball will never travel in cargo. I understand why Sue, Sandi, and others won't allow their fluffs in cargo either. We can all have a difference of opinions ... and, that is okay. Again, no judgments.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

Fluffdoll said:


> What facts? Tell me of one person who has shipped their dog from Korean Air and it came to them dead? Not all airplanes are the same, or airlines...
> 
> I never said there was anything wrong with people sharing their thoughts and what they would do. Nor was I even referring to you. I don't mind people sharing experiences. But others have said hurtful and judgmental things, such as calling me and someone else on here "cruel" and "irresponsible" for shipping our fluffs. And I do wish they would keep to themselves such negative comments. It doesn't affect me, or hurt me, I'm just annoyed lol.
> But I know this other person on here is very hurt by these commentaries and is feeling attacked.


No matter how anyone of us may feel, I think we will all be hoping that your puppy arrives safe and secure. I think that being in Panama limits your choices more than if you lived in, say Texas. I also understand that Korean Air has a very good reputation with shipping puppies. I, for one, am looking forward to hearing your happy report when your lovely puppy arrives. :wub:


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Fluffdoll said:


> Well, *I think it's great that you are all trying to pass on information you have read, and I know that this is referred to those of us who are having our puppies shipped from Shinemore in Korea. *
> 
> Truth is that Narae Lee is a very reputable breeder for a reason. She has never lost a puppy and she wouldn't risk her good reputation. Korean Airlines has a cargo hold special for live animals. It is well lit, air conditioned, and heated. She uses a special service called "First Class Pets" to ship the dogs for the past 15 years. Also, the puppies fly during their night time and they sleep through it all. Dogs have to travel world wide to able to compete in dog shows, and most of them have to go in the cargo anyways. Just thought I'd point that out...


Marisol - I'm sorry if you feel you're being attacked in some way. I certainly didn't intend to do that and I don't even think I realized you were getting a new puppy from Korea or if I knew it wasn't in my mind posting here. I was responding to a thread that Maggie started that as far as I could tell didn't mention anything about shipping dogs from Korea. I personally chose to get a Maltese near me and rejected a couple of dogs that could be sent to me FROM IN THE STATES because they were going to send them by cargo. As I said, my dog is like my child and no child of mine is flying in cargo. My neighbor had her dog shipped from Florida and it was a nightmare. Was supposed to be "handled with care" and delivered to some sort of concierge type desk. Well they couldn't find the dog for her for a couple of hours and then she was sent to a huge cargo terminal where she was finally united with the pup, who was frantic at that point. As she was putting on the harness she brought, the puppy leapt from her hands and took off next to the tarmac. She had assumed someone would be personally handling the dog but the dog was treated like cargo. I wouldn't wish this on anyone else and yes it didn't happen to me but happened to my very close friend. And as far as it not happening to me...just because me dog hasn't gotten sick from Jerky treats from China doesn't mean I'm going to feed them to him. We make our own choices and last I heard, this is a forum where our opinions could be given, pro and con.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Marisol, please understand that no one here wishes you anything but the very, very best. This, I thought, was a discussion about shipping dogs---and you happened to be in the road & got hit by the truck. I spoke only from my own personal experience (which isn't small) and others have spoken from theirs---you included. As Sue said this is a forum where we can voice pro & con---that is how all subjects here are handled. Whoever the other person is, I would say the very same to them.

We will all celebrate your new baby! I, for one, will be praying for her trip too---as I am sure so many of us will. Please don't feel a personal attack against you.


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## mdbflorida (Feb 28, 2013)

Great post. I flew up to Newark to meet my Breeder and fly back the same day with my little one. I just couldn't do it shipping or even having someone else travel with my little Boo. There have been so many news reports of pet disasters on planes this year -particularly with United Airlines. Now all of our vacations are driving because Zach my wheaten has to come too . 

Personally, I hate to travel on long flights and it is equally as stressful on our little babies.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Oh Marisol, I am so sorry. I truly am. I've been a member, I think for 4 or 5 years, not sure. But I haven't been on much. I just saw the topic, thought it was a great one, so I decided to share my thoughts.

Also Marisol, I promise you, please please, don't have your feelings hurt, or feel you are being judged, or breeders are, no. It may feel that way to you, but I promise you, from the heart, when you have your darling baby in your arms, every member, will be jumping for joy, and on the edge of their seats to see pictures.

There are topics, that hit all our hearts. I guess they call them "hot" topics.

Perhaps, I had no right in posting, since I have been away, but I promise you, no one is judging anyone. 

I still feel the same, but it's the topic, it's not you, any breeder. I hope that makes sense. 

It's almost like when are babies are spayed and neutered, I know myself, my heart is in my mouth, we all can't help but be nervous, we don't breath, till we get the call, that our babies are all done and doing fine. Even though, there have been success after success, we can't help, but be nervous. Oh, maybe it's not the same thing, but maybe how some of us feel inside about different topics, maybe even stronger, but honestly, I have read all the post, and it comes from everyone's heart, those that are okay with it, and those, that are not. So, read them again maybe, oh not to change your mind, not at all, but it may help you to see, that no, no one is judging anyone. 

I apologize, as I have been away from SM, but not long enough to know, that it's the topic, that people feel strongly about one way or another and from the heart.

There are several topics that come up, and people feel strongly, out of love, one way or another.

I too love Lynn dearly, and she probably knew how I felt, even before I posted. (Love you Lynn).

So Marisol, please take it with the mindset, that it's the topic, that people feel strong about, again, one way or another.

I think the bottom line and the common denominator is always, love of the furbabies.

No, sweetheart, as I posted earlier, I could not do it, and don't think I could live through it. Truly. I don't have any links to post, never experienced it, but for me, on this topic, there is no way in the world I could. Even if it were a 15 minute flight.

When my baby Ana was spayed, the tech had to walk me to the door, as the tears were just flowing down my face.

I don't think that makes me an over reactive Mommy.

I'm not sure I am helping at all. The one thing I did want to get across to you, is please, don't think you are being judged, or anyone else is.

Now, I can guarantee you this, when it's time, for your baby to be spayed, every member, who has posted on this topic, will be there for you, and post prayers, and well wishes for you, and will be there for you the entire day, even after. 

I hope this helps to understand where the members are coming from.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

I'm the one who said it was cruel and inhuman, imo, to ship a puppy who is approx. 2 lbs give or take, 15 plus hours in another thread. Especially when there are so many other options that would require a shorter flight. (And I'm speaking for pet purposes here. I understand there are times when a show breeder needs to expand their gene pool and may need to get a dog from another country.) And I still feel that way. I don't see how my feeling this or stating this is personally attacking someone. And I do apologize if it was taken as a personal attack. I treat my fluffs as I would skin children, had God blessed me with skin-children. And I would never ship a 8-12 month old human baby in cargo. And that's how I feel about shipping a tiny puppy who does run a higher risk then larger puppies for going hypoglycemic and has no protective undercoat to protect them from hot or cold temperatures if the environmental controls are not regulated properly. 

That being said, the only reason I'm even taking the time to post is because I do care and I don't want to see that puppy be traumatized and have behavioral issues or worse. I don't want someone to arrive at the airport to pick up their baby to be met with devastating news. And I will be praying for that baby in hopes they arrive safely without issue. And I will also be there to help support any future questions or concerns, as well as celebrate any milestone or achievement once that baby is part of the SM family.

Lynn I understand what you are saying. But times have changed. And sadly, so have people. People as a general rule are less responsible, less caring and less dependable in their jobs then they were 10 years ago. And even less then 15 and 20 years ago. It just keeps getting worse. Look at bullying. We've had bullies forever. But not to the extremes we see today. And sadly, there are certain people who like to bully and traumatize tiny, helpless creatures. When I have friends who work in the airline industry that aren't even real animal lovers say they would never ship a dog in cargo, then I feel it's pretty important to listen. Maybe I should drop a line to 20/20 or one of those news shows who likes to go in with hidden cameras and ask them to film what it's actually like to fly in cargo as well as what it's like for the animal during layovers and getting off and onto the plane. We may all be very surprised at what we see. Myself included. It may be better then what I've been told.

Just wanted to add, that with family and good friends there are times when you can not support a decision you feel is a bad decision. You can't support it because you do care. But it doesn't mean you don't or won't support and love and care for that friend or even the results of that decision. Friends and family are always there.


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

Marisol, I'm sorry for the way this thread has gone down. 

Sounds like you've weighed all your options and done all your research. We all know you're a great fluff mom. 

Hoping the flight is easy on your little one and she sleeps through most of it.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> I'm the one who said it was cruel and inhuman, imo, to ship a puppy who is approx. 2 lbs give or take, 15 plus hours in another thread. Especially when there are so many other options that would require a shorter flight. (And I'm speaking for pet purposes here. I understand there are times when a show breeder needs to expand their gene pool and may need to get a dog from another country.) And I still feel that way. I don't see how my feeling this or stating this is personally attacking someone. And I do apologize if it was taken as a personal attack. I treat my fluffs as I would skin children, had God blessed me with skin-children. And I would never ship a 8-12 month old human baby in cargo. And that's how I feel about shipping a tiny puppy who does run a higher risk then larger puppies for going hypoglycemic and has no protective undercoat to protect them from hot or cold temperatures if the environmental controls are not regulated properly.
> 
> That being said, the only reason I'm even taking the time to post is because I do care and I don't want to see that puppy be traumatized and have behavioral issues or worse. I don't want someone to arrive at the airport to pick up their baby to be met with devastating news. And I will be praying for that baby in hopes they arrive safely without issue. And I will also be there to help support any future questions or concerns, as well as celebrate any milestone or achievement once that baby is part of the SM family.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:


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## summer (Dec 3, 2010)

I have to say that I would never send a pet in cargo. It doesn't matter the size, age, or a dog or cat. I would never do it. I have heard too many horrible stories. I'm pretty sure if people could ask their beautiful animals ahead of time how they would feel about it, they probably would not like the idea. Its important to remember our fluff babies do not have a voice and they rely on us humans to speak up and make the best decisions possible to ensure their safety.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

eiksaa said:


> Marisol, I'm sorry for the way this thread has gone down.
> 
> Sounds like you've weighed all your options and done all your research. We all know you're a great fluff mom.
> 
> Hoping the flight is easy on your little one and she sleeps through most of it.


Marisol didn't start this thread. Maggie started it specifically to discuss shipping dogs in cargo. So from what I can tell, this thread has discussed exactly as the thread is titled, "Shipping your fluff?" :thumbsup:


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Marisol didn't start this thread. Maggie started it specifically to discuss shipping dogs in cargo. So from what I can tell, this thread has discussed exactly as the thread is titled, "Shipping your fluff?" :thumbsup:


We already know that 


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I was not referring to Korean Air. I was talking about the facts of specific airlines in the US ... the names of the airlines, with injuries and deaths that have occurred on an annual basis ... the names of the airlines and details for each airline are listed in one of the links Maggie provided in her initial post.
> 
> I totally agree with you that not all airlines are the same. In fact ... and I hate to say this ... but, I think there are foreign airlines that are putting most of our US airlines to shame right now.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this! I completely understand and I don't have a problem with the discussion of this topic.  Its the rude comments that I didn't like... 


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

Sylie said:


> No matter how anyone of us may feel, I think we will all be hoping that your puppy arrives safe and secure. I think that being in Panama limits your choices more than if you lived in, say Texas. I also understand that Korean Air has a very good reputation with shipping puppies. I, for one, am looking forward to hearing your happy report when your lovely puppy arrives. :wub:


Thank you Sylvia! It's nice to feel yours and other member's love and support.  


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> Marisol, please understand that no one here wishes you anything but the very, very best. This, I thought, was a discussion about shipping dogs---and you happened to be in the road & got hit by the truck. I spoke only from my own personal experience (which isn't small) and others have spoken from theirs---you included. As Sue said this is a forum where we can voice pro & con---that is how all subjects here are handled. Whoever the other person is, I would say the very same to them.
> 
> We will all celebrate your new baby! I, for one, will be praying for her trip too---as I am sure so many of us will. Please don't feel a personal attack against you.


Thank you Sandi! I didn't feel attacked by you at all  I know you're intentions are kind and you weren't referrering your experiences as a personal attack against me, lol. 


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Marisol didn't start this thread. Maggie started it specifically to discuss shipping dogs in cargo. So from what I can tell, this thread has discussed exactly as the thread is titled, "Shipping your fluff?" :thumbsup:


You were specifically discussing how ethical these Korean breeders are, if anyone has visited them, they are high quantity etc. I don't know how that's exactly about "Shipping your fluff?"


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

allheart said:


> Oh Marisol, I am so sorry. I truly am. I've been a member, I think for 4 or 5 years, not sure. But I haven't been on much. I just saw the topic, thought it was a great one, so I decided to share my thoughts.
> 
> Also Marisol, I promise you, please please, don't have your feelings hurt, or feel you are being judged, or breeders are, no. It may feel that way to you, but I promise you, from the heart, when you have your darling baby in your arms, every member, will be jumping for joy, and on the edge of their seats to see pictures.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your kind and comforting words. :heart:  

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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

eiksaa said:


> Marisol, I'm sorry for the way this thread has gone down.
> 
> Sounds like you've weighed all your options and done all your research. We all know you're a great fluff mom.
> 
> Hoping the flight is easy on your little one and she sleeps through most of it.


Oh Aastha, thank you so much. :wub: I will keep you posted on everything! 


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

eiksaa said:


> You were specifically discussing how ethical these Korean breeders are, if anyone has visited them, they are high quantity etc. I don't know how that's exactly about "Shipping your fluff?"


LOL, exactly!! 


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> I'm the one who said it was cruel and inhuman, imo, to ship a puppy who is approx. 2 lbs give or take, 15 plus hours in another thread. Especially when there are so many other options that would require a shorter flight. (And I'm speaking for pet purposes here. I understand there are times when a show breeder needs to expand their gene pool and may need to get a dog from another country.) And I still feel that way. I don't see how my feeling this or stating this is personally attacking someone. And I do apologize if it was taken as a personal attack. I treat my fluffs as I would skin children, had God blessed me with skin-children. And I would never ship a 8-12 month old human baby in cargo. And that's how I feel about shipping a tiny puppy who does run a higher risk then larger puppies for going hypoglycemic and has no protective undercoat to protect them from hot or cold temperatures if the environmental controls are not regulated properly.
> 
> That being said, the only reason I'm even taking the time to post is because I do care and I don't want to see that puppy be traumatized and have behavioral issues or worse. I don't want someone to arrive at the airport to pick up their baby to be met with devastating news. And I will be praying for that baby in hopes they arrive safely without issue. And I will also be there to help support any future questions or concerns, as well as celebrate any milestone or achievement once that baby is part of the SM family.
> 
> ...


Crystal, we simply don't have an emoticon to express how I feel about your post ... it is much better than just a good post.

You have expressed so much of what has been on my mind. In general, airlines and their employees are not like they were years ago. (and, that goes for many other busineses, too). I used to love flying. But, I hate it now. The last several times I had to fly it was with First Class tickets ... (which I guess now are Business Class tickets) ... but, even First Class is not first class anymore. And, something is wrong when passengers pay ahead of time to reserve seats ... and, then when arriving at the gate, are told the airline is overbooked. The passenger is then informed that they must wait for another flight! Just another example of how unethical a business can be today.

I like your idea of dropping 20/20 a line. I would love to see them go in with hidden cameras and do an investigation regarding cargo on planes. And, I too, listen to my friend who has worked for a major airline, for years, and shared that one should never have their beloved fluffs placed in cargo ... because a lot of horrible things are happening with so many innocent fluffs. 

I also agree with you that bullying has gotten worse, too. I just made a comment on FB ... after beng instructed to copy and paste and NOT share ... (if one cared about praying and caring for their friends). I posted that I cannot copy and paste on my i-Pad ... and, asked what is wrong with sharing. I also commented that I felt it was like bullying ... to tell me that I cannot share, but, must copy and paste if I care and love my friends! Geez.

Crystal, I personally think your post is thoughtful, caring, and honest. Good for you, girlfriend.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Crystal, we, esp. those of us who have been here awhile, know you, your heart & your concerns. . . they are thoroughly legit. It is fair to ask the "what" questions you addressed. 
I am not a vegetarian because I can't look at the info out there (both daughters are w. one being vegan). I think if I looked closely I would not eat meat (which would greatly complicate life at my house!). I prefer, at least for today, to keep myself protected, but I may not be doing the best thing---I really don't know since I haven't looked. I am not saying others have not looked into everything as thoroughly as possible, just speaking of myself.
Again, you bring up some very valid points---each person will choose differently, but it is good to see things from your side as well. Thank you for taking time to share your heart.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

eiksaa said:


> You were specifically discussing how ethical these Korean breeders are, if anyone has visited them, they are high quantity etc. I don't know how that's exactly about "Shipping your fluff?"


I was asking questions and voicing my concerns, yes. If you look at any of my past posts on these particular Korean breeders, you will see my concerns have not changed. Nor has anyone been able to answer or address my concerns. But I do agree that was not on topic and do apologize for it. My comment was because I thought you were thinking Marisol started the thread and it had completely gone off course from what her initial subject had been. And it really hasn't. Most long threads do get a bit off course and then brought back around to topic again. As did this one.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> I'm the one who said it was cruel and inhuman, imo, to ship a puppy who is approx. 2 lbs give or take, 15 plus hours in another thread. Especially when there are so many other options that would require a shorter flight. (And I'm speaking for pet purposes here. I understand there are times when a show breeder needs to expand their gene pool and may need to get a dog from another country.) And I still feel that way. I don't see how my feeling this or stating this is personally attacking someone. And I do apologize if it was taken as a personal attack. I treat my fluffs as I would skin children, had God blessed me with skin-children. And I would never ship a 8-12 month old human baby in cargo. And that's how I feel about shipping a tiny puppy who does run a higher risk then larger puppies for going hypoglycemic and has no protective undercoat to protect them from hot or cold temperatures if the environmental controls are not regulated properly.
> 
> That being said, the only reason I'm even taking the time to post is because I do care and I don't want to see that puppy be traumatized and have behavioral issues or worse. I don't want someone to arrive at the airport to pick up their baby to be met with devastating news. And I will be praying for that baby in hopes they arrive safely without issue. And I will also be there to help support any future questions or concerns, as well as celebrate any milestone or achievement once that baby is part of the SM family.
> 
> ...


I respect you very much Crystal. But I think this may be worded a bit too strongly. I see where you are coming from that your dogs are like your children. Many peopel feel that way. But truth be told, our precious babies (even though we call them babies) are not humans. They are dogs, and have completely different needs and abilities then human babies and cannot really be compared.

I also disagree with your statement that people are less responsible today than 10 years ago. I completely disagree with this statement. Lazy mean people have always exsisted. We may be more aware of some of them due to the easy access to information. But I actually believe the opposite to be true. I think that for some jobs we are doing better than ever. I think when given the opportunity, people step up and want to do a good job. And I don't know what bullying has to do with this situation at all.

And as to this situation of shipping in cargo, I don't think anyone would chose it as a #1 choice, but it is done all the time. How do you think dogs with multi-national championships are made? They travel. And they travel a lot. I think as others have metioned here, much of how well they tolerate travel has to do with the personality of the dog. 

It sounds to me like this particular breeder takes extra measure to minimize the risk to her puppies. To generalize and call her (and other forign breeders) reputation to question is not needed. Heck, we have high volume breeders right here in the US that are lauded here on SM and no one bats an eye.

I can see why Marisol feels a bit like she is being ganged up on here. It isn't quite an accident that we have two members getting dogs from Korea. I think Maggie started this is an educational thread after this discussion popped up on another thread. And I whole heartedly agree that we should all be able to debate and participte in the discussion. But some of these comments are going too far maybe?

Let's all pull back as I think we have presented all sides here. These puppies are coming and that is a done deal. Let's see how it goes, and be happy and hopeful for our members and their new puppies for now.


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## Fluffdoll (Aug 9, 2012)

pammy4501 said:


> I respect you very much Crystal. But I think this may be worded a bit too strongly. I see where you are coming from that your dogs are like your children. Many peopel feel that way. But truth be told, our precious babies (even though we call them babies) are not humans. They are dogs, and have completely different needs and abilities then human babies and cannot really be compared.
> 
> I also disagree with your statement that people are less responsible today than 10 years ago. I completely disagree with this statement. Lazy mean people have always exsisted. We may be more aware of some of them due to the easy access to information. But I actually believe the opposite to be true. I think that for some jobs we are doing better than ever. I think when given the opportunity, people step up and want to do a good job. And I don't know what bullying has to do with this situation at all.
> 
> ...


:amen:
:goodpost: :aktion033:


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## Ruby (Nov 5, 2013)

Thanks to everyone for the well wishes on my puppy that is being shipped from Korea! For those of you who have said some really harsh things, well you are entitled to your opinion but for calling me cruel these is no excuse for this. You don't know me or the beautiful family of 3 kids that I am raising. I have a son that just accepted into Harvard another son that is a star athlete in his school and a beautiful 5 year old daughter. If I felt this puppy was in danger I wouldn't do it. But I feel very comfortable with my breeder and the health of my puppy. With that being said lets just pray for her safe arrival and as soon as she gets here I will post pics!


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

pammy4501 said:


> Let's all pull back as I think we have presented all sides here. These puppies are coming and that is a done deal. Let's see how it goes, and be happy and hopeful for our members and their new puppies for now.


Well said, Pam.

Yes, this was started as educational and by no means is an indictment of anyone. I think we all wish our members and their new puppies well.


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## Leanne (Sep 6, 2012)

On the shipping issue....before I began my Nursing career, I worked for 23 years at Northwest Air. I began as a flight attendant eventually ending my life at NWA as the Priority Pet/animal coordinator. I developed and managed the program in 3 hubs from MSP until Delta took over and eliminated myself and the Priority Pet Program.

I could add all sorts of horror stories here but I will spare you all the details. Aside from mis-handling problems many issues can arise that many do not consider. Delays are always going to be an issue no matter who or how your animals are checked/shipped. Whether it is mechanical, traffic congestion, or weather delays.....there are so many things out of ones control. Aircraft are changed that may not be able to accommodate live animals and pups are loaded anyway, ramp delays with no fresh/cool/warm air on 110 degrees or subzero tarmacs. Animals left/lost in tail carts when gates change during snowstroms. The utter disaster of 9/11.....I was trying to find the 300 or so animals (most pets) in the system of all the grounded/diverted flights. It was a double nightmare. We lost some precious pets that day. Also consider trauma is a huge issue. Everyone on the ramp has ear protection but your pets/animals do not. The noise is deafening. The exhaust from the aircraft alone is nauseating not to mention all the other vehicles. Also know that the mills all ship cargo. Many very ill puppies may be in the hold with your dog. Many pups were personally delivered by me to the vet for euthanasia due to parvo. I hated Tuesdays and Thursdays! The list just goes on and on. 

While I was in this position, we worked diligently to personally meet and transfer each and every live animal ourselves through the hubs, in a heated/air conditioned van, set up for animals, but there is no such program at any airline that I know of. Even then we were there we had no control over what happened at downline stations.

My point is: Do Not Ever!!! check your pet or reconsider buying from a breeder who will ship your new baby to you as checked into a cargo hold on an airline. If you cannot make the trip by driving or carrying on your new pup, use a courier service that many offer. 

Many of you know me to pretty laid back and non-confrontational.....but on this issue due to what I have personally witnessed, I stand by my strong stance. I know many ship for breeding purposes. If I have offended any breeder who ships cargo or as checked baggage you may PM me and I will offer evidence of what happens to your babies while in the baggage/cargo system. I think if you really knew what the animals go through you would want to protect your investment of your champion dog and consider some other shipping option.

So please carry-on your pup or drive!

Thank you for listening.....


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Leanne said:


> On the shipping issue....before I began my Nursing career, I worked for 23 years at Northwest Air. I began as a flight attendant eventually ending my life at NWA as the Priority Pet/animal coordinator. I developed and managed the program in 3 hubs from MSP until Delta took over and eliminated myself and the Priority Pet Program.
> 
> I could add all sorts of horror stories here but I will spare you all the details. Aside from mis-handling problems many issues can arise that many do not consider. Delays are always going to be an issue no matter who or how your animals are checked/shipped. Whether it is mechanical, traffic congestion, or weather delays.....there are so many things out of ones control. Aircraft are changed that may not be able to accommodate live animals and pups are loaded anyway, ramp delays with no fresh/cool/warm air on 110 degrees or subzero tarmacs. Animals left/lost in tail carts when gates change during snowstroms. The utter disaster of 9/11.....I was trying to find the 300 or so animals (most pets) in the system of all the grounded/diverted flights. It was a double nightmare. We lost some precious pets that day. Also consider trauma is a huge issue. Everyone on the ramp has ear protection but your pets/animals do not. The noise is deafening. The exhaust from the aircraft alone is nauseating not to mention all the other vehicles. Also know that the mills all ship cargo. Many very ill puppies may be in the hold with your dog. Many pups were personally delivered by me to the vet for euthanasia due to parvo. I hated Tuesdays and Thursdays! The list just goes on and on.
> 
> ...


Thank you Leanne. I know you don't like getting involved in these types of threads that can get confrontational. I appreciate your willingness to do this.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Leanne said:


> On the shipping issue....before I began my Nursing career, I worked for 23 years at Northwest Air. I began as a flight attendant eventually ending my life at NWA as the Priority Pet/animal coordinator. I developed and managed the program in 3 hubs from MSP until Delta took over and eliminated myself and the Priority Pet Program.
> 
> I could add all sorts of horror stories here but I will spare you all the details. Aside from mis-handling problems many issues can arise that many do not consider. Delays are always going to be an issue no matter who or how your animals are checked/shipped. Whether it is mechanical, traffic congestion, or weather delays.....there are so many things out of ones control. Aircraft are changed that may not be able to accommodate live animals and pups are loaded anyway, ramp delays with no fresh/cool/warm air on 110 degrees or subzero tarmacs. Animals left/lost in tail carts when gates change during snowstroms. The utter disaster of 9/11.....I was trying to find the 300 or so animals (most pets) in the system of all the grounded/diverted flights. It was a double nightmare. We lost some precious pets that day. Also consider trauma is a huge issue. Everyone on the ramp has ear protection but your pets/animals do not. The noise is deafening. The exhaust from the aircraft alone is nauseating not to mention all the other vehicles. Also know that the mills all ship cargo. Many very ill puppies may be in the hold with your dog. Many pups were personally delivered by me to the vet for euthanasia due to parvo. I hated Tuesdays and Thursdays! The list just goes on and on.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Leanne, for sharing your first hand experience with what, sadly ...
really happens to precious and innocent fluffs when they are shipped cargo.


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## summer (Dec 3, 2010)

Leanne said:


> On the shipping issue....before I began my Nursing career, I worked for 23 years at Northwest Air. I began as a flight attendant eventually ending my life at NWA as the Priority Pet/animal coordinator. I developed and managed the program in 3 hubs from MSP until Delta took over and eliminated myself and the Priority Pet Program.
> 
> I could add all sorts of horror stories here but I will spare you all the details. Aside from mis-handling problems many issues can arise that many do not consider. Delays are always going to be an issue no matter who or how your animals are checked/shipped. Whether it is mechanical, traffic congestion, or weather delays.....there are so many things out of ones control. Aircraft are changed that may not be able to accommodate live animals and pups are loaded anyway, ramp delays with no fresh/cool/warm air on 110 degrees or subzero tarmacs. Animals left/lost in tail carts when gates change during snowstroms. The utter disaster of 9/11.....I was trying to find the 300 or so animals (most pets) in the system of all the grounded/diverted flights. It was a double nightmare. We lost some precious pets that day. Also consider trauma is a huge issue. Everyone on the ramp has ear protection but your pets/animals do not. The noise is deafening. The exhaust from the aircraft alone is nauseating not to mention all the other vehicles. Also know that the mills all ship cargo. Many very ill puppies may be in the hold with your dog. Many pups were personally delivered by me to the vet for euthanasia due to parvo. I hated Tuesdays and Thursdays! The list just goes on and on.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your post. It contains very valuable information that can help many animals. Hopefully, many people will read it and hear what you say.


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## Jackambros (Jul 24, 2020)

maggieh said:


> There have been some posts recently about shipping a puppy long distances. The best way to transport a fluff any distance is in the cabin with you in an approved crate or carrier. You can make certain it's not too hot or cold and monitor how the fluff is doing, but even then, it's a stressful experience.
> 
> Shipping the fluff in the cargo hold can be extremely risky. While the airlines are quick to point out that while thousands of dogs are shipped in cargo each year, "only" a handful of deaths and injuries are reported, that's too many, especially if one of those babies is yours.
> 
> ...


100% agree with you buddy. I am also hearing a lot of negative news related to pet shipping by planes and also pet scams are also increasing. Read that article too
here-is-how-to-beware-of-pet-scams | Forbesz

I am also afraid of these scams. And there are also lots of factors we need to take care of like - Is our pet getting Suffocated, We also need to manage their documents.
I must recommend to Use kennels for you pet shipping.
I always chose trusted pet shipping company for my pet. They might take some extra penny but that doesn't matter in front of my pet safety.
So hope you all and your pet stay safe from scammers.
As it will be so painful to read and watch the daily news coming related to pet scams and death.

Best regards,
Jack


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

Wow, very old post full of some negative people of the past! Sad that the people with the opposing viewpoint were seen as being out of line when in reality they were expressing their opinion thoughtfully and with good intentions. 

I do miss Stacy--she was always very reasonable!


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