# R.I.P Sage ( please read)



## FirstMalteseNmyWorld (Nov 15, 2013)

As of this Wednesday he was 10 weeks . I took him to his vet because I started noticing that sage wasn't acting him self. Not as playful not eating much. I figured it was because of the food change. He would run in circles and stand on his hind legs and fall back on his lil body and wine and whimper. This all took place with in a day. I tried giving him honey thinking his sugar was low but still no change. I took him to the vet and they told me that what he was suffering was a brain defect and is common in Maltese and you typically don't no until they progress in weeks. So I made decision to put him to sleep. 😰 My heart hurts bad. I did however contact the breeder they paid for it. I miss him so much my first puppy Ive always wanted. 

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## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

Oh I so sorry for your loss! I know your heart must be broken right now  . Did the Vet say what the name of the illness was? It may help others who one day experience the same. God be with you during your time of sadness.


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

I am so sorry.


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

I'm so sorry  That's very sad


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

Really sorry about little Sage. RIP, little one. 


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## ladodd (Jan 8, 2012)

How sad. RIP sweet little guy.


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Oh my, so very sad, You must be so heartbroken. Poor little one. Please be comforted in knowing that you made his time on earth happy and loved.


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## LovelyLily (Mar 26, 2013)

I am sorry for your heartbreaking loss. May you rest in peace, baby Sage.

Linda


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

Oh I'm am truly sorry for your loss of sweet Sage. Your heart must be broken. Hugs to you now in your time of sadness. Run and play at the bridge, Baby Sage!


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## FirstMalteseNmyWorld (Nov 15, 2013)

I honestly can't remember the vet was using very big words that I had no clue I no she mentioned something about possible liver shunt meaning that his body isn't developing well. And also something with his brain. I wish I could remember. I was in total shock and pain. To make matters worse it was my son's birthday he turned 8. Thank God he was at school. The breeder apologized that I had to endure it. And has a litter that will be ready to go home. Mid January they told me I will have first pick. To a new Maltese puppy. Sad to say I'm so heart broken and scared now, I can't take another one of these tragedies. :_(

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## Oakley Jackson (Feb 7, 2013)

I'm so very sorry! RIP Sage


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## sherry (Jan 4, 2013)

I know your heart is broken. I am so sorry for your loss. RIP little Sage


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## mdbflorida (Feb 28, 2013)

Oh I am so sorry for your loss. It is so hard to lose one of our little ones. He was adorable.


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

FirstMalteseNmyWorld said:


> I honestly can't remember the vet was using very big words that I had no clue I no she mentioned something about possible liver shunt meaning that his body isn't developing well. And also something with his brain. I wish I could remember. I was in total shock and pain. To make matters worse it was my son's birthday he turned 8. Thank God he was at school. The breeder apologized that I had to endure it. And has a litter that will be ready to go home. Mid January they told me I will have first pick. To a new Maltese puppy. Sad to say I'm so heart broken and scared now, I can't take another one of these tragedies. :_(
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Honestly I would not take another puppy from that breeder. I would want until you are ready and search for a reputable breeder. Very likely that puppy had a liver shunt. 8 weeks is too young to be placed in a home. I am so sorry. I lost a pup to liver disease at the age of 5. After 3 months I was ready to love again and I found Mercedes, she was worth the wait.


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

elly said:


> Honestly I would not take another puppy from that breeder. I would want until you are ready and search for a reputable breeder. Very likely that puppy had a liver shunt. 8 weeks is too young to be placed in a home. I am so sorry. I lost a pup to liver disease at the age of 5. After 3 months I was ready to love again and I found Mercedes, she was worth the wait.


I agree!


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## mdbflorida (Feb 28, 2013)

I agree with Cathy. The breeder should not be sending home puppies that young. I know it is hard but to prevent this kind of experience and costs down the road, I would search out a better breeder. There are several articles posted recently on this. Take care and again I am so sorry you had to go through this.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

elly said:


> Honestly I would not take another puppy from that breeder. I would want until you are ready and search for a reputable breeder. Very likely that puppy had a liver shunt. 8 weeks is too young to be placed in a home. I am so sorry. I lost a pup to liver disease at the age of 5. After 3 months I was ready to love again and I found Mercedes, she was worth the wait.


I agree with Cathy. When you said that Sage was circling I immediately thought he probably had a liver shunt. They are genetic so you run the risk of more heartbreak if you get another puppy from the same breeder.

Can you request a refund instead? Many states have "puppy lemon laws" and breeders are required to refund the purchase price and/or vet bills if a puppy dies that quickly. Where do you live?

I am so sorry you had to go through such a heartbreaking experience.


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## Bailey&Me (Mar 8, 2010)

Oh no, that is so sad! I'm so sorry for your loss  

I hope you won't mind if I throw in a couple of words of advice here - I would be very, very careful about agreeing to take on another puppy from this breeder at this time. If the breeder will refund you the purchase price of your pup or reimburse you for the medical costs, I would take that over a promise of another puppy to be very honest. Get the vet to send a detailed report to you with the diagnosis and share it with the breeder - she should be aware of any potential liver or neurological or other health issues so she can address these in her future breeding plans. 

Sorry again for your loss  I am so heart broken for you.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

I am so sorry for your loss.

I agree with Cathy and Nida.

But, if your heart is set on a puppy from that litter, please ask her to keep it with it's mother until it is at least 12 weeks old.


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## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

I'm so sorry, how awful for you.


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## maltese manica (Nov 6, 2012)

OMG! I am so so so so sorry....................my words cant even begin to describe how I am feeling for you! I know you loved Sage so much and he loved you! Hugs and please stick around on SM! You get so much great support on here! My thoughts and prayers are with you!


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## Leila'sMommy (Oct 20, 2012)

Oh no! I am so so so sorry! My heart breaks for you. Hugs! When you posted the other day about him not wanting to eat the new food, I didn't know he was having the other problems. I agree with what the others said about not accepting another puppy from that line and to also search for an ethical breeder. I would hate for you to risk going through something like this again. 


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

elly said:


> Honestly I would not take another puppy from that breeder. I would want until you are ready and search for a reputable breeder. Very likely that puppy had a liver shunt. 8 weeks is too young to be placed in a home. I am so sorry. I lost a pup to liver disease at the age of 5. After 3 months I was ready to love again and I found Mercedes, she was worth the wait.



I'm so sorry you had to endure such a horrific and painful experience like this. I'm also sorry poor Sage did as well. Please ask for a full refund from this 'breeder'. Check into the law that Marj told you about. This person who you got your precious baby from is not a reputable breeder. The fact that she lets her puppies go at 8 weeks is one indication. Another is that she already has another litter about ready. Sounds like a possible puppy mill. And these types of breeders are only perpetuating the suffering of the poor breeding dogs, the puppies born with painful diseases, and the humans who love them. Please know it's ok to grieve the loss of a puppy. We love them like children. Give yourself time to let your heart heal. When and if you are ever ready to add another baby to your family, we have some wonderful threads 'stickied' at the beginning of each section. Check out the stickeid threads in the Breeder Section to help guide you in finding the right breeder for you.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

I got my first 2 Maltese from a BYB that advertised in the paper. I've been through same thing with a sick puppy with shunts. Same things you described and he died too. It affects their brain. His brother has had over 3.000 in leg surgeries and allergies. Their dogs are just matched up and bred for money. Then advertised for sale as AKC in paper or online. No testing or knowledge of lines health history. Very sad. I then found a good show breeder through this forum when I was ready for another puppy. 
Good luck am so deeply sorry for your loss. :wub:
RIP sweet Sage :innocent:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

I too was offered a free pick of the next liter. I got a full refund (after she called the Vet) and stayed away from these type of breeders. :thumbsup:


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## lynda (Oct 11, 2005)

I am so sorry for your loss. May you rest in peace little one. 

You have gotten some excellent advice from our members. Please listen to what they have said.


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## FirstMalteseNmyWorld (Nov 15, 2013)

I would get my money back but I signed this contract... is this normal for breeder to have you sign,?

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## FirstMalteseNmyWorld (Nov 15, 2013)

Contact


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

FirstMalteseNmyWorld said:


> I would get my money back but I signed this contract... is this normal for breeder to have you sign,?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


What does your contract say? Reputable breeders do have contracts that states what is expected from both parties, what you must do as the puppy parent as well as their health guarantee against genetic health issues. Most reputable breeders have a 1-2 year health guarantee for genetic health issues common to the breed. These contracts talk about when to spay or neuter the puppy as well as if ever there is something that should happen where you can no longer care for the dog, the dog must go back to the breeder. This is to help ensure that their dogs will always be cared for and never end up in a shelter.

Edited: Just saw you posted the contract (or part of the contract). Wow...he wasn't even truly 8 weeks when you got him.  May I ask who the breeder is?


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

I'm so very sorry that you lost poor little Sage.:smcry: None of this was your fault - he was just an ill dog but no real way to tell when you got him. I'm sure you and your son are devastated.
I agree with all the other posts. No reputable breeder sells Maltese pups before 12 weeks of age so already that's warning. I would not get any other puppies from that person. She's what we call a greeder; just breeding to make money not for the betterment of the breed. She should not be breeding any dogs that produced little Sage. I think you said she paid the vet bills; I would also check out lemon laws for a refund too. Look for small breeders who actively show Maltese and have CH (champions) in their lines - you won't be buying a show dog but one that for some reason, isn't being shown...they're sold as pets rather than show potentials. There is an AMA list of breeders per state: American Maltese Association Breeder Referral which might help you in your search or if you let us know where you live we may be able to help you. 

I was also going to suggest the rescue route, but many will not let people adopt if they have children younger than 10 because the dogs are small and could be hurt by them.

Again, please accept our sympathy. This is not what should happen to anyone getting a Maltese, especially before the holidays. We feel your pain and all our suggestions are just so that you don't go through this again.


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## mdbflorida (Feb 28, 2013)

I read the contract and I think you are covered as long as your vet writes it up so you can send it to her. Their only out would be that you did not get a second opinion by a vet of their choice. But honestly, they should honor your vet.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

FirstMalteseNmyWorld said:


> As of this Wednesday he was 10 weeks . I took him to his vet because I started noticing that sage wasn't acting him self. Not as playful not eating much. I figured it was because of the food change. He would run in circles and stand on his hind legs and fall back on his lil body and wine and whimper. This all took place with in a day. I tried giving him honey thinking his sugar was low but still no change. I took him to the vet and they told me that what he was suffering was a brain defect and is common in Maltese and you typically don't no until they progress in weeks. So I made decision to put him to sleep. 😰 My heart hurts bad. *I did however contact the breeder they paid for it.* I miss him so much my first puppy Ive always wanted.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


She did say that the breeder paid the vet bill. But I would still check the laws in your area.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

I don't have Callie's contract with me but Foxstone has their contract on their site. This should give you an idea of what a reputable breeders contract looks like. Of course others will be a bit different here and there. I think it would be good to check into the law Marj suggested. Hope there is one for your state.

Foxstone Maltese Pet Contract


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

FirstMalteseNmyWorld said:


> Contact


Your contract guarantees that Sage was healthy. If he had a liver shunt or some other genetic condition that caused his death, the seller is in breach of the contract. All that contract does is protect the breeder from stress related illnesses like hypoglycemia, etc.

If you will share what state you live in, I would be happy to look up the puppy lemon law for you. If you are lucky enough to live in one of the states with tough laws, it doesn't matter what your contract says. A contract that goes against the law is not a valid contract.


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## FirstMalteseNmyWorld (Nov 15, 2013)

I'm located in Texas, Dallas. So does this mean that the puppies parent has bad genetics? 

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## littlefluffbabies (Apr 17, 2013)

This is just heartbreaking. I am so very sorry for your loss..and I agree with the others about avoiding this breeder for a future puppy.

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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

I'm heartbroken for you. I can't imagine loosing a puppy. She sold the puppy ,just under 8 weeks, she really should have done so at 12 weeks... I'm so sorry for your pain and loss!
I'd opt for return of money paid and vet bills covered and take some time to research finding a new breeder. Many here can help with that. I don't know if liver shunt is something that can be tested for or not, but if it can breeder should really do it!


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

:smcryh my gosh that just broke my heart, I'm so sorry, I know your missing him so badly, I'm just glad he didn't have to suffer more. He was such a a precious little guy, I am glad the breeder paid you back. I do hope you will find another one day, make sure you find a reputable breeder. hugs to you


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

I am so sorry for your loss. I can understand how upset you must be. But the unfortunate truth is, you got a puppy from an unscrupulous backyard breeder. The first clue was letting the puppy go at 8 weeks of age. Breeders that adhere to the American Maltese Association Code of Ethics do not place puppies before 12 weeks of age. The contract that you posted also is typical of a BYB or puppy broker. 

Don't beat yourself up though, because I don't think you knew. Many of us here have had similar sad circumstances. What you do now is the most important. Spend some time here reading threads on breeder selection. Learn the difference between a reputable show breeder and BYB, brokers and puppy mill dogs. Under no circumstances should you take another dog from the same breeder! To answer your question "Does this mean the puppies parents had bad genetice?" The answer is yes. So to risk getting another dog from this person would be inviting trouble.

Here is an article that is making the rounds on FB. I think it perfectly states the reason for getting a dog from a reputable show breeder. And if that is not something that can be afforded, rescue is the other best possible avenue to a wonderful pet. 

I don’t want a show dog; I just want a pet. | Ruffly Speaking


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## donnad (Aug 22, 2006)

How sad...I am so sorry.


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## Fee (Oct 26, 2013)

I am so sorry for your loss, he was such a cutie. Truly heartbreaking, good luck with your new puppy.


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## maggie's mommy (Mar 12, 2006)

This is so sad. My sincere condolences to you and your family. Rest in peace sweet Sage. I'm so sorry.


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## kilodzul (Oct 7, 2013)

I'm so incredibly sorry for your loss, I can't even imagine the pain you feel.  But please remember: it's not your fault. If anyone did something bad, it was the breeder. You gave this puppy love and care it deserved, so heartbreaking that he was taken away from you so soon. Hang in there.

Also, I have a question... if it's possible that this was genetic problem, can you somehow contact with other people who purchased puppies from this litter? Maybe they faced the same tragedy or maybe you can warn them to watch out for warning signs...

Again, I'm so very, very sorry for what happened.


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## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

I am sorry you had to go through that. I wish you the best for whatever steps you decide to take from here.


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

I am so sorry for your loss of sage. Its just heartbreaking.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

FirstMalteseNmyWorld said:


> I'm located in Texas, Dallas. So does this mean that the puppies parent has bad genetics?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Unfortunately, Texas is one of the states with no puppy lemon laws.

https://www.avma.org/Advocacy/StateAndLocal/Pages/pet-lemon-laws.aspx

Yes, liver shunts are congenital in Maltese which is why all Maltese puppies should have a bile acids test, preferably before going to their new home.

Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

Here are some stickies for you to read:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/52-...106856-liver-shunt-bile-acid-test-thread.html

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/52-maltese-health-behavior/78171-bile-acid-test.html

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/52-...2734-dr-centers-bile-acid-test-procedure.html

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/52-maltese-health-behavior/122735-protein-c-test.html


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

After losing a puppy to shunts I asked the breeder for a BAT before I brought my next puppy home. You can run the tests 12 weeks I'm pretty sure. Will show you if the levels are high (shunt range/MVD). A rep show breeder will gladly do this for you if they haven't already.


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## mom2bijou (Oct 19, 2006)

I am so sorry for your loss. Sage's time here was far too short, but he will always be with you. What a little darling he was. So very sorry.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Ladysmom said:


> Unfortunately, Texas is one of the states with no puppy lemon laws.
> 
> https://www.avma.org/Advocacy/StateAndLocal/Pages/pet-lemon-laws.aspx
> 
> ...



I'm sure this is all very overwhelming right now and hard to grasp everything in the midst of the grief you are dealing with. Just in case you don't have it in you to read all the links Marj provided, Bile Acid Testing (BAT) should not be done until a puppy is at least 16 weeks. So that means waiting until they are 4 months old. I think this is probably something that newer breeders might do that do not have established lines. But may not truly be necessary for an experienced breeder that has years and years of established lines. But it is always your right to ask for this and I think most breeders would understand once they know what you've already gone through.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

My deepest sympathy to you at such a shocking & devestating loss. . . so quickly. It really makes me angry at your "breeder." No excuses for this kind of behavior.


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## TLR (Nov 13, 2011)

So sad. Very sorry for your loss. You have been given so much good advise here so I will just say take your time and do your research before you buy again. Again, my condolences to you.


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## luvsmalts (Oct 21, 2008)

This is so sad, I'm so sorry for your loss.


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## educ8m (May 19, 2010)

I am so sorry for your loss. What should have been an exciting and happy time turned into heartbreak. You've been given some excellent advice. Let your heart heal, do some research, and when the time is right, I pray you find a healthy puppy from a reputable breeder or perhaps you will be open to a rescue. Hugs to you.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

I am so sorry for your loss. I would be interested to know the full report from your vet about what happened. Even if it was confusing at the time, you should get it in writing. I know that Liver Shunts are very common in Maltese. I am not sure which brain disorder the vet has said would be common in a puppy of this age. 



Crystal&Zoe said:


> I'm sure this is all very overwhelming right now and hard to grasp everything in the midst of the grief you are dealing with. Just in case you don't have it in you to read all the links Marj provided, Bile Acid Testing (BAT) should not be done until a puppy is at least 16 weeks. So that means waiting until they are 4 months old. I think this is probably something that newer breeders might do that do not have established lines. But may not truly be necessary for an experienced breeder that has years and years of established lines. But it is always your right to ask for this and I think most breeders would understand once they know what you've already gone through.


While it is true that the test is recommended at 16 weeks or over, Dr. Center has said that it can be done at 12 weeks before a puppy goes to a new home, it just is not as reliable. 

Dr. Tobias answered a question about this for the Yorkie folks: bileacidqa The gist of her answer says that she could generally rule out a shunt by that age, but could not accurately report on MVD. Since the shunt is the big concern, I would encourage anyone who has been through this kind of situation to request a BAT from their breeder before taking the puppy home. 

Bile acid testing is not as precise as many of us would like to see. Two parents with normal numbers have been seen to produce a liver shunt puppy. Two parents with abnormal numbers have been seen to produce puppies with normal numbers. Because of this, many honest breeders are not yet convinced of the necessity of this test; however, if you have loved and lost a puppy from a shunt, I would think that you would want to go into the purchase of a new puppy with as much knowledge as possible and so no matter what the breeder usually does, I would encourage you to ask for the test.


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## sophiesmom (Apr 21, 2006)

So sad and so young. Hugs to you and the family.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

CloudClan said:


> While it is true that the test is recommended at 16 weeks or over, Dr. Center has said that it can be done at 12 weeks before a puppy goes to a new home, it just is not as reliable.
> 
> Dr. Tobias answered a question about this for the Yorkie folks: bileacidqa The gist of her answer says that she could generally rule out a shunt by that age, but could not accurately report on MVD. Since the shunt is the big concern, I would encourage anyone who has been through this kind of situation to request a BAT from their breeder before taking the puppy home.


Good to know Carina. Thanks!


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## Poppy's mommy (Dec 21, 2007)

I am so sorry my prayers are with you.


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Please accept my very heartfelt condolences for the loss of Sage. After reading everyone's advice, I don't have anymore to offer but hope that the Breeder realizes what she/he is doing by letting Puppies go at such an early age. Prayers are with you and your family.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

This is so sad...I'm very sorry. Hugs for you. R.I.P Sage!


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## chichi (Apr 12, 2007)

I am s sorry for your loss of little Sage.:grouphug:


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## Vanitha (Nov 17, 2013)

Oh no! I'm so sorry for your loss!


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## StevieB (Feb 2, 2012)

That is awful. Did you say where you got the puppy from? Maybe I missed it. I am also in the Dallas area and if you are able to get a refund and decide (hopefully) to go to a reputable breeder I can give you some names. If it does come down to you accepting another puppy from this "breeder" I think you need to insist the puppy stay with the mother until minimum 12 weeks and that you have a bile acid test done before accepting. But hopefully you can get your money back and go somewhere else. I also hope you will get a better understanding of what the puppy actually died from. I am so sorry this happened.


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## maltese#1fan (Feb 20, 2012)

I am so sorry for your loss. I can't even imagine the pain you are going through. You are in my thoughts and prayers.


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## FirstMalteseNmyWorld (Nov 15, 2013)

I spoke with the breeder and she showed me her dog history breeding. And I will be waiting until the puppy is 12 weeks until I receive him. So that I can get the test that is needed to assure this will not happen again. Thank you everyone you have all been very helpful in this time. 

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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

FirstMalteseNmyWorld said:


> I spoke with the breeder and she showed me her dog history breeding. And I will be waiting until the puppy is 12 weeks until I receive him. So that I can get the test that is needed to assure this will not happen again. Thank you everyone you have all been very helpful in this time.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Could you share the history?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

FirstMalteseNmyWorld said:


> I spoke with the breeder and she showed me her dog history breeding. And I will be waiting until the puppy is 12 weeks until I receive him. So that I can get the test that is needed to assure this will not happen again. Thank you everyone you have all been very helpful in this time.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Does this breeder bile acid test (BAT) all the Maltese he breeds as recommended by the American Maltese Association per Dr. Center? Although two normal parents can still produce a puppy with a congenital liver shunt, you will greatly reduce the odds of getting another puppy with a congenital liver shunt if both parents are healthy.

I would not take the breeder's word for it, but ask to be shown bile acid test results as part of the breeding history. I would especially ask to see BAT results for Sage's sire and dam, Waylon Jennings and Holly Dolly.

None of us want to see you go through this heartbreak a second time.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

FirstMalteseNmyWorld said:


> I spoke with the breeder and she showed me her dog history breeding. And I will be waiting until the puppy is 12 weeks until I receive him. So that I can get the test that is needed to assure this will not happen again. Thank you everyone you have all been very helpful in this time.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I am not sure what she showed you regarding her dog breeding history, but she clearly does not follow the ethical standards that are set out in the American Maltese Association code of ethics as this puppy was barely 8 weeks old when he came to you. This is unethical for many reasons, but mostly because it demonstrates a lack of care and concern for both the well-being of her puppies. The AMA is not the only club to set out these guidelines, nearly all toy breeds from ethical breeders sold in the U.S. are also sold at 12 weeks. 

The names of the dogs on the contract also indicate that she has no history showing them. They are not champions themselves and have names that are very typical of BYB or even puppy mill lines. 

I hope you will reconsider going back to a breeder who makes these choices. There are so many good reputable breeders out there and yet there are far more who are not. While the next puppy you get from this breeder may not be sick, I have no doubt that she will sell other sick puppies to other unsuspecting families. Please do not support that type of behavior. I know that you are still heartbroken and want to love another baby. But let sweet Sage's legacy be one of education and learn as much as you can about how to find those breeders who care about the health and genetics of the puppies they produce. SM is a great place to learn about this. Read and ask questions here before making a final decision.


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## Cassievt (Apr 24, 2013)

I am so sorry for your loss. I know how much you fall in love with them the first day. 
The same thing happened to me yrs. ago. I bought a toy poodle from a BYB and she had trouble breathing the first night and spent the night in the hospital. Then 2 days later she was acting funny and I brought her back to the vet. The little thing ran to a corner and was ferocious . The vet was screaming at me to get her back to the breeder ...she had distemper. Both my 10 yr.old and myself were hysterical. 
Please take the advice from the SP forum members and not buy another puppy (heart ache) from this BYB. 
Wishing you the very best.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

CloudClan said:


> I am not sure what she showed you regarding her dog breeding history, but she clearly does not follow the ethical standards that are set out in the American Maltese Association code of ethics as this puppy was barely 8 weeks old when he came to you. This is unethical for many reasons, but mostly because it demonstrates a lack of care and concern for both the well-being of her puppies. The AMA is not the only club to set out these guidelines, nearly all toy breeds from ethical breeders sold in the U.S. are also sold at 12 weeks.
> 
> The names of the dogs on the contract also indicate that she has no history showing them. They are not champions themselves and have names that are very typical of BYB or even puppy mill lines.
> 
> I hope you will reconsider going back to a breeder who makes these choices. There are so many good reputable breeders out there and yet there are far more who are not. While the next puppy you get from this breeder may not be sick, I have no doubt that she will sell other sick puppies to other unsuspecting families. Please do not support that type of behavior. I know that you are still heartbroken and want to love another baby. But let sweet Sage's legacy be one of education and learn as much as you can about how to find those breeders who care about the health and genetics of the puppies they produce. SM is a great place to learn about this. Read and ask questions here before making a final decision.


:goodpost:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

FirstMalteseNmyWorld said:


> I spoke with the breeder and she showed me her dog history breeding. And I will be waiting until the puppy is 12 weeks until I receive him. So that I can get the test that is needed to assure this will not happen again. Thank you everyone you have all been very helpful in this time.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Just wanted to add, I don't believe the Vet did a BAT on Sage so you don't really know if he had a shunt. Just to remind from Carina's original post. Although a BAT is recommended to look for a puppy shunt early on, please keep in mind that this test is only one of the recommendations when buying a Maltese puppy because shunts are more common in breed. There is NO way to "assure" a puppy won't be sick or develop a later shunt until they are much older than 12 weeks. 

That is why finding an "ethical breeder" that follows AMA guidelines/cares about health of ALL her dogs (AND) asking for a puppy BAT is the correct order it is done in. Make no mistake about it, BYB's know how to sell puppies and only want the next check each puppy brings, and the sooner the better. I hope you do get a refund and contact Celeta for contacts in your area. 
Good luck to you. :wub:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I can only affirm Carina's post above! Save yourself any more heartache & reach out to people in the know. I had a puppy w/liver shunt (back in the day when it was difficult to diagnose)--but we took him to Davis in CA. & they were able to diagnose him as a puppy. He had surgery & lived a good, long life (not w/out some difficulties & at a huge cost). We are not sorry about the costs, just grateful he had such good care. It does take a strong emotional core to live w/a pup who has on-going medical issues. Please, please reconsider working w/this apparent "greeder."


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

I truly urge you to reconsider getting another puppy from this breeder. The only way we can stop unethical breeding practices is to stop buying from unethical breeders. I just don't want to see you with another heartache. You may get another puppy from this person that is free from liver shunt. But what about temperament issues?


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

Good post Crystal. I too hope you consider looking for a puppy from a responsible breeder. I have owned 4 Maltese. Edgar is almost 14. He is from a pet store. He looks like a mix and is a big boy at 12 pounds. He is fearful and has had seizures. For the most part he has been healthy. Ellie was from a lady in Texas who was breeding several different breeds. She was 8 weeks when I got her. The vet saw her and said she looked great and healthy. She went for a spay and that is when we learned she had liver disease. Honestly had I not found spoiled Maltese I probably would have lost her sooner than we did. I spent over 15 thousand dollars on her and still had my heart broken. I learned so much from Ellie. It does make a difference where you get your dog. Mercedes and Whitney are from a show breeder in Florida. You would not believe the difference. They are happy, friendly, healthy, beautiful dogs. Also remember prices are all over the place. A nice female could be over 2000 or less. I have seen males in the 800 to 1000 range. The key is finding a breeder you like. Both of my girls were 5 months when I got them. Great age. I have a great relationship with the breeder and will see her at Eukanuba this weekend. Shows are a great place to meet breeders. Good luck!


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## FirstMalteseNmyWorld (Nov 15, 2013)

All your post have great information. I had only agreed to move forward with the breeder because I was refered to them through other Maltese owners. Who have had history with them. But I also had told the breeder that I wasn't going to get the Maltese puppy until he was 4 months. That way he could be with his mother and all suitable test can be taken to assure he's a healthy pup. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

FirstMalteseNmyWorld said:


> All your post have great information. I had only agreed to move forward with the breeder because I was refered to them through other Maltese owners. Who have had history with them. But I also had told the breeder that I wasn't going to get the Maltese puppy until he was 4 months. That way he could be with his mother and all suitable test can be taken to assure he's a healthy pup.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I am sure like most BYBs and mills she has people willing to give testimonials for her. In fact, one of the hallmarks of most BYB and Mill sites are the testimonials pages. I can assure you that almost every BYB site I have visited has had these sort of customer testimonials. Because they have sold so many puppies to unsuspecting families they often have lots of unsuspecting customers who have been lucky enough to escape without experiencing the heartbreak you have. That does not mean others will be so lucky. 

She sold you an 8 week old puppy who should never have been in your home until he was at least 12 weeks old. You would not have experienced this heart-break at all if she had followed the guidelines set out in the AMA code of ethics. That code of ethics is not just for AMA members, it is the recommended guidelines for anyone wishing to call themselves an ethical AKC breeder as the AMA is the parent club within AKC. If someone applies for AMA membership they are expected to have been adhering to these ethical guidelines all along, not just after they become members. 

Does she have the Bile Acid results on both parents? Does she know anything about the grand-parents of your puppy? Have you asked her about the other breed health issues such as collapsing trachea, luxating patellas, heart murmurs, GME/NME? 

I do not want to sound like I am coming down on you in any way, but we have far too many breeders with questionable ethics who damage our breed and break the hearts of families every day. The horror stories I have heard and seen and even experienced as a Maltese foster mom have made me quite anxious to do all in my power to try to discourage folks from making the mistake of supporting these type of breeders. I hope you will not add to the tragedy of what happened to Sage by perpetuating it on other puppies and other families by supporting this kind of breeder.


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## SA_GC (Oct 14, 2013)

Very sad. RIP little Sage, chasing butterflies with lots of little and big friends in the great big meadow in the sky.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

CloudClan said:


> I am sure like most BYBs and mills she has people willing to give testimonials for her. In fact, one of the hallmarks of most BYB and Mill sites are the testimonials pages. I can assure you that almost every BYB site I have visited has had these sort of customer testimonials. Because they have sold so many puppies to unsuspecting families they often have lots of unsuspecting customers who have been lucky enough to escape without experiencing the heartbreak you have. That does not mean others will be so lucky.
> 
> She sold you an 8 week old puppy who should never have been in your home until he was at least 12 weeks old. You would not have experienced this heart-break at all if she had followed the guidelines set out in the AMA code of ethics. That code of ethics is not just for AMA members, it is the recommended guidelines for anyone wishing to call themselves an ethical AKC breeder as the AMA is the parent club within AKC. If someone applies for AMA membership they are expected to have been adhering to these ethical guidelines all along, not just after they become members.
> 
> ...


Great post--Carina. I thought same thing as the OP. there were SO many Maltese in our town from same little network of breeders. Then I found out this is huge red flag. I know its not good to have so many puppies coming from same place. (Carina can better explain this) seems to me the mothers would not have much to give being bred so often. How sad and cruel for the females. Seems they trade off parents between homes, breed every chance. :angry: and they make you think you've found a perfect breeder.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

FirstMalteseNmyWorld said:


> All your post have great information. I had only agreed to move forward with the breeder because I was refered to them through other Maltese owners. Who have had history with them. But I also had told the breeder that I wasn't going to get the Maltese puppy until he was 4 months. That way he could be with his mother and all suitable test can be taken to assure he's a healthy pup.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Please remember at 12 weeks tests won't show you much. Just if his bile acids are very high levels. Combined with an ethical breeder a BAT is about all we have to show if there is a puppy shunt. not adult shunt. So the breeder is the key thing. Not to mention behavioral differences you see from the breeders like Carina that work hard to socialize the puppies instead of leaving them in a pen all day long. You need to go to your own vet when having a puppy examined.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

FirstMalteseNmyWorld said:


> All your post have great information. I had only agreed to move forward with the breeder because I was refered to them through other Maltese owners. Who have had history with them. But I also had told the breeder that I wasn't going to get the Maltese puppy until he was 4 months. That way he could be with his mother and all suitable test can be taken to assure he's a healthy pup.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


We care about you. Take care :wub: and keeping reading here.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

You have been given excellent advice here by people who have many years of experience with Maltese...I agree that you should NOT go back to this lady for another pup...it may be free initially, but you could end up paying thousands for other health and/or behavioral issues. My first Maltese was from a BYB...he got up to 12 pounds...he was sick his whole life..he had cherry eye, allergies, digestive problems, behavior problems, and liver disease..I had to have him put to sleep...he was in so much pain..it was agonizing..:smcry: I am so sorry about what happened to you...so sad..


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

One of the worst offending puppymills in my area gets tons of referrals from other people who have gotten puppies from her. Her name is almost a 'status symbol' since her name is so well known. I'm guessing it's because of the types of breeds and designer mutts she breeds. And all of them have genetic health conditions and temperament problems. I know of a Bichon from her who is allergic to humans! The sad thing is, that when I ask questions to hopefully get them to start thinking, it's evident they are not linking bad breeding (bad breeder) to the problems. They choose to believe the myth that purebred dogs have more problems than mutts. And with the designer mutts, the owners choose to believe they didn't research enough and didn't realize the part that they are having issues with stems from one of the breeds used to create their overpriced mutt. I'm dealing with that right now with a particularly lovely customer who went quite a distance and paid huge $ for an ... get this .... an Irish Doodle. That would be Irish Setter, Lab and Poodle. Right now she's certain his issues are stemming from the poodle part of him. I can assure everyone here that is not the problem. Poor breeding is at fault 100%. There are many extremely healthy mutts with great temperaments in shelters and rescues that stemmed from 'oops' litters. And there are also those that aren't.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Again...so sorry for your loss 

We have wonderful members here who know wonderful breeders.

Maybe if you post your location, someone could help you find a reputable breeder near you so that this doesn't happen to your family again.

Some of them have older puppies available, too.....


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