# How Pet Food Is Killing Your Dog



## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

I posted this on my FB page. But it's too good of an article not to share. Apologies to those that are seeing it twice.

I think if the media would really get involved, the public would be so outraged that the way we feed our pets would not only change, but what our vets are taught in vet school would also change. It also again proves that dogs are not meant to eat grains. Feeding them grains could also be slowly killing our pets. For sure it is cats.

How pet food is killing your dog - and why you should be feeding it parsnips and yoghurt | Mail Online


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## Ann Mother (Dec 18, 2013)

I sent this article to my vet. I'm curious about his response. I feed my dog a little kibble & cook him a chicken tender every day. He gets snacks of apples too.


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

Not trying to start an argument here, but I don't think we can provide the "proper" nutrition for our dogs with only raw veggies or home cooked food. It takes supplements to provide the other vitamins that we might overlook. Unless one has consulted with a certified pet nutritionist, I would be leary of home cooking only. I know that the pet food industry is a money making business but you also have to consider the years of nutrition study and the money that goes into that business. Some of the smaller pet food companies put together a label that looks good to us as humans. But our pets have a very different digestive system and so a lot of the things that we think of as "healthy" eventhough it is healthy for our pets, it just does not stay in their system long enough for them to get the nutrition and vitamins out of the food. Also these smaller companies are not backed by sound pet nutrition studies. 

***This is only my 2 cents and I will NOT argue with others who may think their info is the only correct info available. As we all know, we can read almost any point of view on the internet....whether it is true of false, it is up to each individual to work it out for him/herself.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

sassy's mommy said:


> Not trying to start an argument here, but I don't think we can provide the "proper" nutrition for our dogs with only raw veggies or home cooked food. It takes supplements to provide the other vitamins that we might overlook. Unless one has consulted with a certified pet nutritionist, I would be leary of home cooking only. I know that the pet food industry is a money making business but you also have to consider the years of nutrition study and the money that goes into that business. Some of the smaller pet food companies put together a label that looks good to us as humans. But our pets have a very different digestive system and so a lot of the things that we think of as "healthy" eventhough it is healthy for our pets, it just does not stay in their system long enough for them to get the nutrition and vitamins out of the food. Also these smaller companies are not backed by sound pet nutrition studies.
> 
> ***This is only my 2 cents and I will NOT argue with others who may think their info is the only correct info available. As we all know, we can read almost any point of view on the internet....whether it is true of false, it is up to each individual to work it out for him/herself.


OMG, I am so glad you said this Pat! We banter a lot about food on this forum. And I know it's because we adore our dogs, and want the very best. But thinking of the unknowing reader taking this as FACT, it seems very unresponsible to me. This article and much of what we all discuss is strictly opinion. And I am totally not comfortable with using "The Daily Mail" as a source of information for anyone! You might as well go to The Enquirer or TMZ! This article should not be shared as factual. I know you posted it as "interesting" Crystal. But lots of people on SM take your food advice very seriously. If people really want advice on home cooking specifically, they need to consult a nutritionist. We all need to do our research very cafefully and consider the sources very carefully as well. Relying on company reps and unvalidated info (such as this article) can be very decieving. I'm not saying you are decieving anyone Crystal. I am saying considering source information is critical.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

sassy's mommy said:


> Not trying to start an argument here, but I don't think we can provide the "proper" nutrition for our dogs with only raw veggies or home cooked food. It takes supplements to provide the other vitamins that we might overlook. Unless one has consulted with a certified pet nutritionist, I would be leary of home cooking only. I know that the pet food industry is a money making business but you also have to consider the years of nutrition study and the money that goes into that business. Some of the smaller pet food companies put together a label that looks good to us as humans. But our pets have a very different digestive system and so a lot of the things that we think of as "healthy" eventhough it is healthy for our pets, it just does not stay in their system long enough for them to get the nutrition and vitamins out of the food. Also these smaller companies are not backed by sound pet nutrition studies.
> 
> ***This is only my 2 cents and I will NOT argue with others who may think their info is the only correct info available. As we all know, we can read almost any point of view on the internet....whether it is true of false, it is up to each individual to work it out for him/herself.


I'm not sure where you are getting from this article that he is recommending not following a complete and balanced recipe? Nor is this article saying to only feed meat and fruits and veggies, quantities, etc... It's simply stating what most of the pet food industry is like as well as what types of real, whole foods dogs thrive on. And there are other commercially prepared foods that are AAFCO compliant that are not canned or kibble such as raw, freeze dried and dehydrated. Thankfully these types of the commercial pet food industry is growing leaps and bounds and the majority are AAFCO compliant. If they are not AAFCO compliant they must state 'for supplemental feeding only'. And there is a growing number of smaller, independently owned companies that process their food in their own private factories to ensure better ingredients and quality control. A much safer bet then going to a food that is processed by a large processing plants such as Mars and Diamond. And there is some kibble from smaller companies like Fromm's that is baked rather than extruded. So again a much better choice. For me, it's all about finding the best food that a person can comfortably afford to feed.

Personally I myself do not really put much stock into what the majority of vet nutritionists say since they are learning everything from studies funded by large commercial pet food companies such as Hills. I want to see studies that are funded by donations and private sources. I'm thrilled that the AHVMA as started their foundation whose goal is to do the studies that will be privately funded as well as by donations. All findings (good and bad) will always be made public.

And yes, a dog's digestive system is very different then ours. They are meant to digest their food much quicker than we are due to how high their stomach acids are compared to ours. Which is why it is safe for them to eat raw meat but not for us. As long as it's going through their digestive system from start to finish, they are absorbing things from their food as their bodies were designed. They however cannot absorb much from grains or ingredients from poor sources.

Here's another article that links to a report from the CDC released just this month about a pet food manufacturing facility in Missouri, presumably Mars which makes Royal Canin, Nutro, Greenies, and some others that most here don't feed. This was the real point of the article. Exposing what type of crummy ingredients the majority of the larger commercial kibbles are made from.

If it is This Bad for Employees, What is it Doing to Pets?


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

pammy4501 said:


> OMG, I am so glad you said this Pat! We banter a lot about food on this forum. And I know it's because we adore our dogs, and want the very best. But thinking of the unknowing reader taking this as FACT, it seems very unresponsible to me. This article and much of what we all discuss is strictly opinion. And I am totally not comfortable with using "The Daily Mail" as a source of information for anyone! You might as well go to The Enquirer or TMZ! This article should not be shared as factual. I know you posted it as "interesting" Crystal. But lots of people on SM take your food advice very seriously. If people really want advice on home cooking specifically, they need to consult a nutritionist. We all need to do our research very cafefully and consider the sources very carefully as well. Relying on company reps and unvalidated info (such as this article) can be very decieving. I'm not saying you are decieving anyone Crystal. I am saying considering source information is critical.


Here's a link to a copy of a report from the CDC.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hhe/reports/pdfs/2012-0260-3202.pdf


The source of the article may not be the type of source I normally look to, but the article in and of itself is actually accurate. But again, you can have 2 very different opinions from very credible organizations such as the AVMA as well as the AHVMA.


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## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

It's so hard to know what to do, especially if you have multiple dogs with different digestion or other health issues. 

I just skimmed over the CDC article. The concern at the plant was what the employees were inhaling. Do you think the same concerns apply when the food is eaten? I've heard a lot of concerns about mold in kibble. But the other things, couldn't there be a difference between day to day inhalant exposure to those things and eating the final food product? 

(I briefly home-cooked for one of my dogs, using a recipe and supplements prescribed by the nutrition department of the vet school. And then there was the big news about salmonella contamination in the poultry processing plants which processed the chicken I had purchased. So there are risks in home cooking, too!)


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## Chardy (Oct 30, 2008)

Personally I myself do not really put much stock into what the majority of vet nutritionists say since they are learning everything from studies funded by large commercial pet food companies such as Hills. I want to see studies that are funded by donations and private sources. I'm thrilled that the AHVMA as started their foundation whose goal is to do the studies that will be privately funded as well as by donations. All findings (good and bad) will always be made public.

I like to put it like this... the universities have to sleep with Hills and yadda and yadda..and yadda... As a matter of fact, I was told personally by someone that was at the top of the #1 Vet Hospital in the USA... not to use a certain product... and this person could not put it in writing but guided me down the path of what we all believe is the best for our animals. This person said to me.... I have to be so so careful... they fund everything for us! On that note, I made sure I had a perfectly balanced diet for my dog... not by one nutritionist but two... I could not do raw because of issues with IBD etc etc.-- and was ABLE to get off of steroids... I took courses on nutrition myself- I have read every book on canine nutrition that there is and I can formulate a diet with every nutrient needed that must be added. 

I also can back up what Crystal just wrote. :aktion033:


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Here's a link to a copy of a report from the CDC.
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hhe/reports/pdfs/2012-0260-3202.pdf
> 
> ...


I really am not sure why you are using this report? I don't see what it has to do with dogs diets. This is about airborne particulate matter at the factory and the workers inhalation of this particulate matter. This happens in graineries as well. Proper mask protection must be worn. I suppose you are trying to make a correlation to the quality of the dog food, but for me this is a real streatch. We all are aware that some dog foods are not made to human standards. This is not informational about dogs dietary requirements. 

Being a realistic person, I see that people from all walks of life own dogs. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to be very particular about what our dogs eat. Not everyone is so fortunate. A vast majority of dogs eat grocery store food. MANY Maltese breeders (some very well known) feed all of their dogs and puppies Purina Pro Plan. Yes, there have been some terrible incidents related to Chinese produced foods. But again...being realistic...dogs aren't dropping dead right and left from eating kibble diets. I think people are becoming more and more aware of this issue, but not every dog owner is able to afford a $50 bag of food. And I am also not big on conspiracy theories such as every vet being in bed with Hills. Sounds like bunk to me. I trust my vet, and we talk nutrition quite a bit. He isn't a quack and is actually quite knowledable. Same with nutrutionists. These are not stupid people. They have been trained extensively, and much like us, are VERY capeable of "doing the research" too. Let's not discount them. It's a disservice to everyone when we bash the professionals.


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

Unless something is proven scientifically by a universally accepted and recognized organization, it's just opinion. And unless you hold the credibility, your opinion is that of an amateur's. 

We can talk all we want about nutrition based on anecdotal data, but unless you hold a vet or a vet nutritionist title, your opinion is just opinion and doesn't hold any credibility at all. If my pet falls sick, a vet is gonna fix it, not anecdotal data. 

So please let's remember we are not authority on this subject. And let's please respect others' opinions too. 


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Chardy said:


> Personally I myself do not really put much stock into what the majority of vet nutritionists say since they are learning everything from studies funded by large commercial pet food companies such as Hills. I want to see studies that are funded by donations and private sources. I'm thrilled that the AHVMA as started their foundation whose goal is to do the studies that will be privately funded as well as by donations. All findings (good and bad) will always be made public.
> 
> I like to put it like this... the universities have to sleep with Hills and yadda and yadda..and yadda... As a matter of fact, I was told personally by someone that was at the top of the #1 Vet Hospital in the USA... not to use a certain product... and this person could not put it in writing but guided me down the path of what we all believe is the best for our animals. This person said to me.... I have to be so so careful... they fund everything for us! On that note, I made sure I had a perfectly balanced diet for my dog... not by one nutritionist but two... I could not do raw because of issues with IBD etc etc.-- and was ABLE to get off of steroids...* I took courses on nutrition myself- I have read every book on canine nutrition that there is and I can formulate a diet with every nutrient needed that must be added.*
> 
> I also can back up what Crystal just wrote. :aktion033:


And I have taken many medical classes and read many many books on medical subjects. I do not fancy myself able to do what the professionals do. At my hospital the nutritionists are extremely well trained. The physicians defer to their knowledge. It is a bit reckless to imagine that reading books (however many) on a subject can confer mastery of the subject.


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## Chardy (Oct 30, 2008)

[QUOTE=pammy4501;3141874 I trust my vet, 

I trust my vet too and although we don't see eye to eye on many things (over vaccination etc) he still respects my desire to have my toy breed live a long long life. With good genetics, there is no reason why any of our dogs cannot live to 18+ years old. With that being said, it is unlikely that this can be achieved while we continue to over vaccinate, feed "POOR CHOICE KIBBLE ETC" as we continue to weaken the immune system-- 

Pure Breed dogs such as ours do not thrive on poor commercial foods- I'm in it for the long run this time... I already did the short run and blame myself for the messed up immune system of my last girl. Grant you 14-1/2 years old was a long time for a maltese with issues of oxalate stones, thryoid, IBD, and Heart Disease-- I smarted up but it was too late.

Not everyone can home cook... not everyone has the same budget- and not everyone can afford a maltese dog.


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

I'm confused, are the digestive systems of pure bred dogs that much different from say, a maltipoo?


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## Chardy (Oct 30, 2008)

pammy4501 said:


> And I have taken many medical classes and read many many books on medical subjects. I do not fancy myself able to do what the professionals do. At my hospital the nutritionists are extremely well trained. The physicians defer to their knowledge. It is a bit reckless to imagine that reading books (however many) on a subject can confer mastery of the subject.


Sadly, vets are not nutritionists. That is why when my dog was scoped and diagnosed with IBD- his only option to me was Hills ZD and Pred for the rest of her life... Second opinion... was home cooked diet ... single protein single carb and go from there. 

I am not a know it all.. I only know what worked for us in giving my dog a longer chance at life. All the books I read, and classes I attended and got certification from does not qualify me as a know it all or a mastery of the subject... I am not reckless and if you were referring me to being so, shame on you. 
:angry:


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

eiksaa said:


> I'm confused, are the digestive systems of pure bred dogs that much different from say, a maltipoo?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


I will confess it here. We had a Lab when my kids were young. I didn't know squat about dog diets. We had her vaccinated on the schedule that was in practice at that time, which was a lot of vaccinating. We fed her Pedigree kibble and the occasional McDonalds hamburger, and what ever she inhaled off the floor after my kids. She was a wonderful gal. And she lived almost 16 years. Yes, she had arthritis and some other issues at the end. And she was a large breed dog. Could I have done better by her? Probably. Did I kill her? I doubt it. Much of what our purebred dogs endure is genetic in nature. Can diet help with that? Of course. Same for humans. Some people have terrible genetics and die of heart attacks at a young age regardless of diet. 

And as for "shame on me", you can feel that way if you would like. Sorry if you found it insulting. It wasn't meant that way. But I feel there is way too much OPINION masquerading as FACT here.


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## LilGusDog (Jan 29, 2013)

pammy4501 said:


> I will confess it here. We had a Lab when my kids were young. I didn't know squat about dog diets. We had her vaccinated on the schedule that was in practice at that time, which was a lot of vaccinating. We fed her Pedigree kibble and the occasional McDonalds hamburger, and what ever she inhaled off the floor after my kids. She was a wonderful gal. And she lived almost 16 years. Yes, she had arthritis and some other issues at the end. And she was a large breed dog. Could I have done better by her? Probably. Did I kill her? I doubt it. Much of what our purebred dogs endure is genetic in nature. Can diet help with that? Of course. Same for humans. Some people have terrible genetics and die of heart attacks at a young age regardless of diet.
> 
> And as for "shame on me", you can feel that way if you would like. Sorry if you found it insulting. It wasn't meant that way. But I feel there is way too much OPINION masquerading as FACT here.


:goodpost:


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## nwyant1946 (Jan 2, 2013)

sassy's mommy said:


> Not trying to start an argument here, but I don't think we can provide the "proper" nutrition for our dogs with only raw veggies or home cooked food. It takes supplements to provide the other vitamins that we might overlook. Unless one has consulted with a certified pet nutritionist, I would be leary of home cooking only. I know that the pet food industry is a money making business but you also have to consider the years of nutrition study and the money that goes into that business. Some of the smaller pet food companies put together a label that looks good to us as humans. But our pets have a very different digestive system and so a lot of the things that we think of as "healthy" eventhough it is healthy for our pets, it just does not stay in their system long enough for them to get the nutrition and vitamins out of the food. Also these smaller companies are not backed by sound pet nutrition studies.
> 
> ***This is only my 2 cents and I will NOT argue with others who may think their info is the only correct info available. As we all know, we can read almost any point of view on the internet....whether it is true of false, it is up to each individual to work it out for him/herself.


 *I'm afraid to cook for her for that reason...I am so afraid of not giving everything she needs. I do supplement with a scrambled egg in the morning a couple of times a week...she gets blueberries as treats and I cook chicken and rice to mix in with her kibble sometimes...but that's about it..I depend on her prepared foods for her needs.*


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## BradyLily (Sep 9, 2009)

Brady is suffering from allergies and he scratched his eyelid somehow. Took him to the vet on Saturday and she shaved his eyelid and said I need to apply an ointment twice a day. I think it might be the food. I feed them different proteins every day. The common ingredient is sweet potatoes. He seems to be getting tear stains since I switched him and Lily to Wellness from Blue Buffalo. Before BB they were on Natural Balance. I went to the pet store after work today and gave me a few options and I bought 3 of each. The first was California Natural lamb & brown rice, the second was Wellness Core salmon, whitefish & herring formula, the third was Grandma Mae's Country Naturals grain free beef & liver dinner I don't recall seeing Grandma Mae's before. The fourth was Freshpet Vital beef & bison recipe roll. Any opinions about these foods? Never fed them any of them. 


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

I am with Pam on this subject. For one thing, I totally distrust the source. So, what about people who cannot afford to spend $26 per pound on their *own* food, or their dog's food? Are they irresponsible and not deserving of having pets?

I've seen a lot of food fads come and go during my many years on this planet. It looks to me like this "feed your dog like a wolf" diet is just another trend.

If we are going to be so primal, why don't we just give them live chickens and rabbits?


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Sylie said:


> I am with Pam on this subject. For one thing, I totally distrust the source. So, what about people who cannot afford to spend $26 per pound on their *own* food, or their dog's food? Are they irresponsible and not deserving of having pets?
> 
> I've seen a lot of food fads come and go during my many years on this planet. It looks to me like this *"feed your dog like a wolf*" diet is just another trend.
> 
> If we are going to be so primal, why don't we just give them live chickens and rabbits?


And with Maltese being a 2000 year old dog breed, they are just a few generations removed from their wolf ancestors! They just may have evolved a bit in that time! LOL!


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## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

Crystal thanks for sharing the links. There is nothing wrong with sharing articles about dog foods. It is up to each of us to determine what works best for our lives and households. It is also up to each of us to question sources of information. I was horrified when I looked over that CDC report, as well.

If there is a concern that anyone here is giving out bad info when it comes to opinions, I would hope, in those same threads that others with differing opinions would offer up their own suggestions and not sit and let irritation build up to blow up somewhere down the line. Then again, if it's an opinion, I don't understand how it can be bad info-but maybe it's just that a second point of a view needs to be brought to light.

As far as people not being able to afford certain foods for their dogs, I really believe when the subject is brought up, other still offer great alternative suggestions. I have SEEN this happen. When someone is feeding a brand that makes others squirm in their seats I have also seen alternatives of the same price ranges mentioned as well-that are, of course, opinion based as a better choice. I see nothing wrong with that. 

Opinions are often truths for people in how they live their lives, and here, that's what we share, how we live our lives with our fluffs. So when you ask me my opinion on food, I'm going to give you the truth from my perspective. That should be understood for anyone, anywhere on an internet forum.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I've come to the conclusion of feeding what works. Roo eats a prescription dog food. And he doesn't get urinary blockages on it. 

Deadly blockage w/home made food vs. avoiding surgery and possibly death with the Rx crap....we'll keep feeding the crap LOL 

I work in a veterinary practice. Prescription food sales are a pain in the rear and we do not profit much from it. It is wasn't for the convenience of our clients, we wouldn't carry it at all. We don't rake in the bucks by recommending or selling it. The food companies don't shell out for your regular vet. This is similar for most general practice vets.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

pammy4501 said:


> And with Maltese being a 2000 year old dog breed, they are just a few generations removed from their wolf ancestors! They just may have evolved a bit in that time! LOL!


But didn't somebody tell us that dogs domesticated themselves by rummaging through human's rubbish? Haven't we heard over and over that dogs have nutritional needs very similar to humans...and that is why they adopted us? Okay, so recent studies are showing that grains are not beneficial to humans. Exploring through trial, I find it may very well be true. I don't want to give my dogs grains, as I question how good they are for me...that is why I have chosen a food that offers beans as the carbohydrate.

The question of the best way to feed our pooches is going to go on and on and on. Each of us needs to look at the pros and cons most carefully. If we can't buy the very special trendy foods at a wholesale price, we just might need to make some concessions...as we do in every aspect of life.
My childhood chis lived to the age of 17 on SKIPPY. We all strive to do the best we can, and to filter out biased reports that are based on guilting us into buying ridiculously high priced foods.

You may mean well in your advice, Crystal, but it doesn't serve people on a limited budget very well. There are people reading this forum who couldn't afford the foods you recommend for their children.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Sylie said:


> But didn't somebody tell us that dogs domesticated themselves by rummaging through human's rubbish? Haven't we heard over and over that dogs have nutritional needs very similar to humans...and that is why they adopted us? Okay, so recent studies are showing that grains are not beneficial to humans. Exploring through trial, I find it may very well be true. I don't want to give my dogs grains, as I question how good they are for me...that is why I have chosen a food that offers beans as the carbohydrate.
> 
> The question of the best way to feed our pooches is going to go on and on and on. Each of us needs to look at the pros and cons most carefully. If we can't buy the very special trendy foods at a wholesale price, we just might need to make some concessions...as we do in every aspect of life.
> My childhood chis lived to the age of 17 on SKIPPY. We all strive to do the best we can, and to filter out biased reports that are based on guilting us into buying ridiculously high priced foods.
> ...


:goodpost:


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## Cutie Patootie (Jun 6, 2010)

The topic of what to feed can really make your head spin. 

My first golden retriever in 2002 was diagnosed with severe hip dysplasia as a puppy he was limping and had horrible x-rays. We ended up having a TPO done on on side done for him and a total hip replacement on the other side. My poor baby was only 7 months old for the TPO. In my desperation to do as much to help him as possible, I joined a "canine hip" forum (or something like that?. I did everything for Jake bought him the best food I could find, salmon oil, certain veggies and supplements. To make a long story short, Jake got hemangio (tumor wrapped around his heart) and died a month after he turned 2 years old! Looking back, I don't know what more I could have done...

On the other hand, I have a friend that fed her golden purina pro plan and he lived to be an incredible 18 1/2 years old. 

I totally agree that we should feed our furkids the best that we can afford and educate ourselves about what is in the food we purchase. Unfortunately, sometimes it isn't enough. Crappy genes can really do a number on some of these furkids and it breaks my heart. All we can all do is educate ourselves, form our own opinion and do the very best that we can.


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## Ann Mother (Dec 18, 2013)

After reading previous posts I feel better because the Bil Jac which I feed my dog with his chicken tender is the only kibble he will eat. I've tried over twenty different brands. I only tried dog foods made in the US. If says distributed here does not mean made here. The only thing I do not like about my kibble is the corn in it. All corn now is GMO.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Crystal--maybe it is from the article but the title of this thread bothers me. It is hard to believe after over 40 yrs having many happy dogs that lived forever on grocery store foods and I don't remember them being sickly and at the vets. And this was before all the competition for your $$ and drama you see in pet stores and food commercials. Would I buy that type of food today for my two Maltese, no. But I know many who still do and their dogs are not dying.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

pammy4501 said:


> And with Maltese being a 2000 year old dog breed, they are just a few generations removed from their wolf ancestors! They just may have evolved a bit in that time! LOL!


Amen!:HistericalSmiley: Just yesterday, I picked up a bag of Fromm's and the food distributer was trying to talk me into feeding mine raw..I said Maltese had been domesticated for 2000 years...no way am I feeding mine raw... they eat what we eat...perhaps us humans should go ancestral..I can send my my DH to hunt for our food....it would save on my grocery bill and the meat would be fresh... but I'm not sure he could lift a spear anymore..:HistericalSmiley:


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## lols82 (Nov 13, 2012)

I'll have time to read this in depth later on however i watched the documentary last night, well parts, I'll watch again over the weekend. I found it very interesting, particularly since Sammy has been put on a home cooked diet by his vet the past week.

What was really concerning to me was with one particular brand (i'm not sure if it's across the board) one of the ingredients in the dog food was the same ingredient contained in anti-freeze :w00t: 

Lily's Kitchen was featured sharing all her concerns over dog food and the reasoning for her development of her brand. Very interesting documentary.


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## Leila'sMommy (Oct 20, 2012)

It's so confusing to figure out what's best.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Food I find can be one of those subject people can be really passionate about, creating hot debates. It is clear to me that people and dogs can survive decently, but maybe not optimally on almost anything LOL. Some people live on twinkies and donuts and soda. Others feel that to juice is the way to go, others vegetarian etc etc etc. I personally have switched to as clean foods as possible, no prepared foods in a Paleo lifestyle, it works really well for me. To top it all off so many, doctors and nutritionists included in that, disagree with each other. The same seems to be true for vets and animal nutritionists. 

So, in that, I think you have to do what you think is best for you and your dogs. Neither of my girls do well on kibble, even grain free, Lola gets very anxious and Penny scratches incessantly, both get would start to tear stain. Raw makes Lola sick and Penny won't usually eat quickly and I wouldn't be able to leave it out. I am not too comfortable with serving it either. So I home cook. My vet taught me not to stress about it. With regular blood work and a varied diet I don't feel I go too far wrong. They are both thriving. It is akin to my own lifestyle of natural real food prepared at home with no grains.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Wow. This is the first I’ve had a chance to reply since last evening. And perhaps it’s a mistake to reply. If it is, it won’t be my first mistake. And certainly won’t be my last.


First off about the offensive title, perhaps I should have changed the title on the thread. I didn’t even think about it and used the title of the article. It never occurred to me the title would be offensive. I’m so used to magazine articles, newspaper articles and even teasers to keep you staying tuned in for upcoming stories on television news being like this that it just never occurred to me.


The second thing I want to address is that I am not one to follow blindly what any article, sales rep, vet or expert is saying that the majority of the public willingly and often without question accept. So to insinuate twice (once in this thread and another in a different thread) that I am being led around by the nose by what vendor reps are telling me is not only insulting, but has no legitimacy to what I’m being accused of. If that were the case my store would be filled with Royal Canin, Hills, Nutro, Purina, BilJac, etc.. If I truly was one to blindly follow what anyone told me, then I would have lost my Himalayan cat, Murphy, at the age of 11 when my vet said we had to euthanize him when he developed diabetes. He gave me absolutely no options. I had to do my own research to discover that many people are able to manage their cat’s diabetes with regular insulin injections. He lived to the age of 16. This same vet also insisted that my Zoe was perfectly healthy and I was just an overly worried mom when she actually had Lepto at the age of 2. Had I mindlessly listened to him rather than insist on a full blood work up, she most likely would not be with me today. Had I listened without question to the next vet who told me that the only thing we could do for Jett when I first got him to manage is severe IBS, he would have been on a daily dose of Metronidazole and boiled chicken and white rice since he couldn’t retain any commercial food, including their prescription food from Hills and Royal Canin, I doubt he would be here with me today. Had I listened to the 3rd vet without question when she said the only thing that could control Zoe’s pain from her IVDD was Prednisone, she would have been on Prednisone for almost 2 years now and that would be where Jett is as well. Had I also listened and mindlessly followed the 3rd vets recommendation when Jett had CaOx crystals in his urine, he would be back on a prescription diet and most likely be dealing with his IBS again. But the truth is, I listened to one of my vendor reps who also is a vet tech that helped me to rid Jett of his CaOx crystals with yes, one of her products. She has also helped me in the area of food, which they do not sell. This particular rep has become a friend that I have known for over 6 years now and has helped not only my dogs, but many customers’ dogs and cats, some here on SM and some former SM’rs, with not just her products, but many other vendor products. And the recommendations she has given are exactly what 3 different holistic vets would have done. She has over the course of the years told me many times that what they have is not what is needed for particular situations and diagnoses. Even steering me to what would be considered a competitor’s product. I am beginning to develop that type of relationship with a 2nd vendor rep. who is also a vet tech. Again she has helped me to help others by recommending other vendor products when she does not believe her products are the correct diet for that animal. So yes, I have developed a couple of relationships with vendor reps who have proven themselves to me time and time again to have the best interest of the animal first and foremost and not to sell only their products. And their records are spotless so far with the advice given and how the animal responded. Out of all the other vendors I deal with, these are the only 2 that I actually listen to for their advice because they have proven themselves to me to not be a greedy vendor who is only out to make a buck and feed me a bunch of hype. I hope to never be accused of this again because there is no basis for this accusation and it’s insulting.


As for people not being able to buy ‘very special trendy foods at wholesale prices, wholesale prices are not that much different than retail when it comes to pet food. The small specialty boutiques cannot buy in the bulk that big box stores can and therefore do not get the price breaks. Small independently owned pet boutiques are lucky to make from .50 cents a can to up to $8-9 on a large 30 pound bag of food. So believe me, we are not making huge profits on food and it’s just as hard for us to buy food for our own fluffs as it is anyone else.


Another issue that needs to be addressed is that I have never said that there is only one way to feed and it has to be with a commercial raw food. I have said that raw feeding is not for everyone. I have always said that there are options out there so that people can feed the best they can afford to feed. But there are much better kibble options out there than Purina, Beneful, Kibbles and Bits, Ol’ Roy, Alpo, etc… My goal has always been to help people feed the best they can afford to feed. And yes, when choosing to get a pet or multiple pets, one must take into consideration if they can afford to feed and provide vet care for them. It’s only being responsible. 



Now, back to the article and the whole point of the article. Are we literally killing our pets with commercial food as in, are they dropping dead in the street? No. But degeneration does occur as the result of an inappropriate diet. Dogs and cats are extremely resilient animals. So one of the reasons we have not been able to link feeding low quality convenience pet foods and chronic health conditions is because they aren’t dropping over dead. We are seeing the results of generations of inappropriately fed animals. As with humans, the popularity of convenient canned and processed foods didn’t appear to have a huge affect on our grandparents and great grandparents. But with each generation we are seeing more chronic health issues, obesity and inflammation. The same is true for our pets. Is diet the only culprit? Probably not. Those of you who know me know I also believe that over vaccination is also a problem, as well as poor genetics. But poor nutrition for generations is a very real part of the problem. For a hundred years we have fed our pets inappropriate diets that have kept them alive, but far from thriving. Instead, we’ve created dozens of generations of nutritionally weakened animals that suffer from degenerative diseases linked to nutritional deficiencies. A link the traditional veterinary community has not acknowledged. I may not be an MD or a RN and cannot debate or discuss on the same level as some on this board but I am intelligent and have a mind to think outside the box. It is an insult to any of us when what we have learned or think is deemed not legitimate since we are not in the medical profession. Especially when what most of us are learning is indeed coming from veterinary professionals. Just a different branch of the veterinary profession. There are differing opinions in the medical and veterinary field. Common sense tells me garbage in, garbage out. If you as a person eat only boxed cereal for breakfast, Chicken McNuggets for lunch and a Big Mac for dinner, you will not fall over dead. But you may not thrive and may develop chronic health conditions. If it doesn’t show up with you, it will show up in future generations. The truth is that many poor quality pet foods are recycling waste from the human food industry. Grains that fail inspection, uninspected pieces and parts of waste from the seafood industry, leftover restaurant grease, deceased livestock, and even roadkill. Thankfully there is a growing number of pet parents becoming educated and learning to avoid foods that have unidentifiable meat sources and by-products. These are the types of foods this article is speaking about and the whole reason I shared it. I may not agree with the whole article but the point of the article is to bring awareness as to what low quality ingredients in pet foods are doing to our pets. 



I am passionate about what I believe. It is a strain on my budget to feed what I feed. But I have 3 dogs that traditional vet medicine has failed requiring that I cannot choose a different form of feeding. It is a huge strain financially on me to give the supplements I give and to see our holistic vet for acupuncture on a regular basis. Perhaps if someone had been brave enough to buck the normal way of thinking and had spoken up about their experiences with various health issues, what worked and what didn’t, I would have learned earlier. And then Zoe & Jett may not need regular acupuncture and the most expensive form of feeding. But I didn’t know earlier and therefore my Zoe and my Jett have suffered from my lack of knowledge. I will continue to learn and research because I cannot bear to know that my lack of knowledge has allowed certain health issues to develop and progress more quickly. I will not lose another beloved family member from lack of knowledge.


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## Leanne (Sep 6, 2012)

:aktion033: Well said....


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Wow. This is the first I’ve had a chance to reply since last evening. And perhaps it’s a mistake to reply. If it is, it won’t be my first mistake. And certainly won’t be my last.
> 
> 
> First off about the offensive title, perhaps I should have changed the title on the thread. I didn’t even think about it and used the title of the article. It never occurred to me the title would be offensive. I’m so used to magazine articles, newspaper articles and even teasers to keep you staying tuned in for upcoming stories on television news being like this that it just never occurred to me.
> ...


:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Wow. This is the first I’ve had a chance to reply since last evening. And perhaps it’s a mistake to reply. If it is, it won’t be my first mistake. And certainly won’t be my last.
> 
> 
> First off about the offensive title, perhaps I should have changed the title on the thread. I didn’t even think about it and used the title of the article. It never occurred to me the title would be offensive. I’m so used to magazine articles, newspaper articles and even teasers to keep you staying tuned in for upcoming stories on television news being like this that it just never occurred to me.
> ...


 
:ThankYou::goodpost:


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Wow. This is the first I’ve had a chance to reply since last evening. And perhaps it’s a mistake to reply. If it is, it won’t be my first mistake. And certainly won’t be my last.
> 
> 
> First off about the offensive title, perhaps I should have changed the title on the thread. I didn’t even think about it and used the title of the article. It never occurred to me the title would be offensive. I’m so used to magazine articles, newspaper articles and even teasers to keep you staying tuned in for upcoming stories on television news being like this that it just never occurred to me.
> ...


:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

:thumbsup: good post Crystal.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Yes, good post, Crystal..:wub: All 3 of mine are on different diets..:smilie_tischkante: That is hard to do, but they are the healthier for it...


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Crystal - well said.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I just wrote a huge response & it was canceled when I tried to correct something!
Maybe I wasn't supposed to say all that stuff. I like this little rhyme:

"Lord fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and nudge me when I've said enough!":HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley:


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## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

edelweiss said:


> I just wrote a huge response & it was canceled when I tried to correct something!
> Maybe I wasn't supposed to say all that stuff. I like this little rhyme:
> 
> "Lord fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and nudge me when I've said enough!":HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley:




sometimes you get timed out and you have to sign in again, and you lose those long messages. could that be what happened? I've done that more than once. So now before I click submit reply, I copy the text. then if I have to sign in again I just start another reply and paste.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

edelweiss said:


> I just wrote a huge response & it was canceled when I tried to correct something!
> *Maybe I wasn't supposed to say all that stuff*. I like this little rhyme:
> 
> "Lord fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and nudge me when I've said enough!":HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley:


:HistericalSmiley:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

This wasn't just a little "nudge" but a huge "push". . . . .:smrofl:
even I can take a hint! :HistericalSmiley:


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