# Why????



## luvmyfurbaby

I don't get it. Aren't there enough "mixed" "hybrid" dogs out there and in the shelters not to mention pure breed Maltese??? Don't want to trash the breeder but just looking for opinions?


Hi All

I have recently been addressed because I have mixed breed puppies on my site. I was asked why so I thought it best to answer publicly. I did a breeding with my Veterinarian friend. She has gorgeous Pomeranian-Bichon female with an excellent temperment, a beuatiful silk coat, extroidinary points and very healthy. She asked me to breed her Pom-bi to a Maltese Champ of mine. We did so and had a litter of 6 adorable puppies. All are small and will be 4-5 pounds full grown. They will have the same 2 yr health guarantee I offer for all of my puppies. They will have the same level of Verterinaian care as all my other dogs. I saw this as a one time experience and feel it was quite successful in as much as the puppies are healthy, beautiful and display the Maltese temperment. Two are taken, 4 are available at reasonable prices. As amatter of fact, the AKC is now offering regitration for hybrid breeds like this and they will be included in many sporting events as well as AKC registration. So my answer to the person that questioned me is this...why not? They will be sold to loving homes with responsible families. I hope this answers your question. Anyone interested in the puppies, see my website puppy page.


----------



## Starsmom

Went to your website...Where's the puppy page?? :huh:


----------



## Cosy

It's a nice sales pitch and that's about it. Shame on the show breeder.


----------



## elly

QUOTE (Cosy @ Aug 21 2009, 10:29 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820284


> It's a nice sales pitch and that's about it. Shame on the show breeder.[/B]



Shame on that show breeder :angry:


----------



## luvmyfurbaby

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 21 2009, 10:25 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820282


> Went to your website...Where's the puppy page?? :huh:[/B]


No it's not me it's an email from a breeder and they have the pups on their page.


----------



## theboyz

OHHHHH Maggie, you know how I feel about Designer Dogs....Breed for Greeders!!!!

What is the web site please.


----------



## luvmyfurbaby

QUOTE (theboyz @ Aug 21 2009, 10:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820294


> OHHHHH Maggie, you know how I feel about Designer Dogs....Breed for Greeders!!!!
> 
> What is the web site please.[/B]


No Marsha not on the forum. I pm'd you.


----------



## theboyz

Thank you Maggie....I just emailed this lady (?). I am sooooo angry!!!!!


----------



## theboyz

Wow, she took that off in a hurry. Let's see if she takes off Tea Cups.


----------



## luvmyfurbaby

QUOTE (theboyz @ Aug 21 2009, 11:14 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820316


> Wow, she took that off in a hurry. Let's see if she takes off Tea Cups.[/B]



Wow she sure did!!!


----------



## Starsmom

OK, now I'M confused! I didn't get a PM - was it the _other_ Marsha you PM'd, and who is this breeder? Let's name names here, I hate playing I've got a secret!


----------



## luvmyfurbaby

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 21 2009, 11:31 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820324


> OK, now I'M confused! I didn't get a PM - was it the _other_ Marsha you PM'd, and who is this breeder? Let's name names here, I hate playing I've got a secret! [/B]



I'm sorry the boyz mom is also named Marsha. I'm not playing "I got a secret" but I don't take part in bashing any one especially on an open forum.


----------



## Starsmom

Not confused any longer.

Her site now depicts Malts - only - how deceptive. Her vet friend and she should be ashamed of themsleves. :shocked: With over 300,000 pets up for adoption on Petfinder, there really isn't a need for more mixed breed pups, no matter how good their temperment is.


----------



## roxybaby22

Could you PM me the website, Maggie?


----------



## bellaratamaltese

Well, I sure don't agree with it. If having the maltese temperament was so important, why breed to a 'pom-bichon'? Nothing against either of those breeds, but silky is not a term i would use to describe either one of those coats. And i'm also not seeing how a size guarantee can be given, esp since we know that bichons are on the larger side. 

Hiding behind health guarantees and vet care doesn't make it any 'acceptable.'


----------



## roxybaby22

I don't agree with it and I just found an ad for one of the mutts on a very popular website to _find puppies_. If anyone wants the link, PM me since it shows the breeder's name and website.

I love mutts as much as any purebred, but this isn't right. :thmbdn:


----------



## bellaratamaltese

QUOTE (roxybaby22 @ Aug 21 2009, 09:52 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820358


> I don't agree with it and I just found an ad for one of the mutts on a very popular website to _find puppies_. If anyone wants the link, PM me since it shows the breeder's name and website.
> 
> I love mutts as much as any purebred, but this isn't right. :thmbdn:[/B]


Wow. $800 for a male mix breed?


----------



## Starsmom

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Aug 21 2009, 09:32 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820353


> Well, I sure don't agree with it. If having the maltese temperament was so important, why breed to a 'pom-bichon'? Nothing against either of those breeds, but silky is not a term i would use to describe either one of those coats. And i'm also not seeing how a size guarantee can be given, esp since we know that bichons are on the larger side.
> 
> Hiding behind health guarantees and vet care doesn't make it any 'acceptable.'[/B]


The health guarantee is for 1 year - and since I posted the other thread about same, it gives me pause to wonder how confident she is with her bloodline. :huh:


----------



## roxybaby22

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Aug 21 2009, 01:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820361


> QUOTE (roxybaby22 @ Aug 21 2009, 09:52 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820358





> I don't agree with it and I just found an ad for one of the mutts on a very popular website to _find puppies_. If anyone wants the link, PM me since it shows the breeder's name and website.
> 
> I love mutts as much as any purebred, but this isn't right. :thmbdn:[/B]


Wow. $800 for a male mix breed?
[/B][/QUOTE]

*sniff *sniff Smells like greed! :eusa_hand:


----------



## Snow Man's Mom

QUOTE (roxybaby22 @ Aug 21 2009, 12:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820364


> QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Aug 21 2009, 01:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820361





> QUOTE (roxybaby22 @ Aug 21 2009, 09:52 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820358





> I don't agree with it and I just found an ad for one of the mutts on a very popular website to _find puppies_. If anyone wants the link, PM me since it shows the breeder's name and website.
> 
> I love mutts as much as any purebred, but this isn't right. :thmbdn:[/B]


Wow. $800 for a male mix breed?
[/B][/QUOTE]

*sniff *sniff Smells like greed! :eusa_hand:
[/B][/QUOTE]
The price has gone up to $900. :smmadder: Available at 10-12 weeks...:smmadder:


----------



## Lacie's Mom

I'm going to bring up a different persective that MIGHT be an appropriate time to interbreed. This has nothing to do with this particular case because I do not believe this fits my scenario at all.

Here is my scenario of when/why it might be appropriate.

There are some breeds that have, at one time or another, almost become extinct. So let's say that a particular breed has a certain genetic defect and the gene pool has become so small that you cannot find a dog that isn't a carrier of the problem. Then, and only then, imho, it might be appropriate to interbreed with another breed in order to maintain the characterists of the almost extinct breed while still trying to cull the genetic health problem. This, however, would take years of work, breeding and culling and breeding and culling before you would be able to say that a line was "clear", and, of course, by then it would be a mixed breed (that may eventually be recognized as a new breed) that would hopefully have achieved your expectations of maintaining the good characterists of the old bred but eliminating the health issues.

Now this is just a thought thrown out there as it has been done in some breds throughout history. Kind of like a "survival of the fittest" idea. It would take generations of breeding and clinical conditions and extensive records -- almost scientific conditions and testing.

As far as this particular breeder is concerned, however, I think she is just trying to be out and out greedy. I would not consider this to be the practice of a "reputable" breeder.


----------



## luvmyfurbaby

QUOTE (Lacie's Mom @ Aug 21 2009, 02:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820423


> I'm going to bring up a different persective that MIGHT be an appropriate time to interbreed. This has nothing to do with this particular case because I do not believe this fits my scenario at all.
> 
> Here is my scenario of when/why it might be appropriate.
> 
> There are some breeds that have, at one time or another, almost become extinct. So let's say that a particular breed has a certain genetic defect and the gene pool has become so small that you cannot find a dog that isn't a carrier of the problem. Then, and only then, imho, it might be appropriate to interbreed with another breed in order to maintain the characterists of the almost extinct breed while still trying to cull the genetic health problem. This, however, would take years of work, breeding and culling and breeding and culling before you would be able to say that a line was "clear", and, of course, by then it would be a mixed breed (that may eventually be recognized as a new breed) that would hopefully have achieved your expectations of maintaining the good characterists of the old bred but eliminating the health issues.
> 
> Now this is just a thought thrown out there as it has been done in some breds throughout history. Kind of like a "survival of the fittest" idea. It would take generations of breeding and clinical conditions and extensive records -- almost scientific conditions and testing.
> 
> As far as this particular breeder is concerned, however, I think she is just trying to be out and out greedy. I would not consider this to be the practice of a "reputable" breeder.[/B]



Totally agree Bull Terriers are a combination of two breeds as well as the Maltese that is how they came about. This person is breeding for a friend a tri bred pup and advertising them first on her Maltese site and now on a puppy site. All I see is $$$$$$$ Her advertisement say's breed - Maltese which is very deceptive you need to read further to see that it is a mix and she even has them as AKC registrable. :smilie_tischkante:


----------



## Morkie4

ummmm, I like disagree..............not a good thing when you start with a beautiful breed with good qualities and healthy attributes with another breed for whatever reason........it is just not good!!! Nope don't think the breeder did a good thing. Nope, think she just damaged her reputation and sales.................so sad that a vet would be in on this too!


----------



## LJSquishy

All I can say is "wow". It's extremely saddening to see people ruin what reputable breeders have worked so hard for for many years.

Was this on a "reputable" show breeder's website??? I can hardly believe it would be...


----------



## Starsmom

QUOTE (LJSquishy @ Aug 21 2009, 11:56 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820448


> All I can say is "wow". It's extremely saddening to see people ruin what reputable breeders have worked so hard for for many years.
> 
> Was this on a "reputable" show breeder's website??? I can hardly believe it would be...[/B]


I believe she has been considered a reputable show breeder, however is not publicaly listed on the AMA site.

The following is an excerpt from the site where the pup is posted:

(joe edit: please link to the info)

Of course the pup will be health checked OK - the bitch belongs to the vet! Shameful - both of them :thmbdn:


----------



## fernsprite

QUOTE (LJSquishy @ Aug 21 2009, 01:56 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820448


> All I can say is "wow". It's extremely saddening to see people ruin what reputable breeders have worked so hard for for many years.
> 
> Was this on a "reputable" show breeder's website??? I can hardly believe it would be...[/B]



Please forgive me if I don't post correctly here, this is my 1st post & I haven't figured this all out yet. I've enjoyed reading the information on this site for some time now but decided to actually "join" today due to this thread.

I asked myself what is a "reputable" breeder....I thought I knew but decided to do a search & educate myself more on the subject since I am only a Maltese owner not a breeder. After doing some research, I feel the breeder in question has some red flags.

The breeder in question may Not be what some call a "reputable" breeder, I now realize this due to the fact that she decided to dabble into mixing breeds & asking High prices for them, which doesn't do a darn thing for the "Maltese" breed at all. I Know of this person & I want to say she Originally had those mixed dogs listed for $1,000/$1,200 & I have a copy of the page from a certain petfinder site. She Lowered the price to $800/$900 right before she made her statement as to why she decided to do the breeding. 
I have now read here that she doesn't even have the puppies on her website now. Personally I feel if you are a "reputable" breeder you would have just told your friend a big fat *No Thanks* to the breeding of your Maltese to a already mixed breed dog & not try & sell mixed breed puppies at Outrageous prices! 
So is this person who has a website, an online group, has ads on a petfind site, has champion dogs who she breeds to get the *Smallest* she can at the *Highest* prices a "reputable" breeder? I don't think she is. I think she's just out for the big $$$. And now I think it even more since she's trying to cash in on mixed breed puppies which aren't even priced at comparable prices for her state.
 
I think she should have said "No Thanks" to the breeding of her Maltese since it did Nothing to Improve the Breed, but Greed has a way of taking over some, which may be the case.

Sad that this is my 1st post, Hopefully I'll be able to comment on something more Positive soon!


----------



## Starsmom

QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 21 2009, 01:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820472


> QUOTE (LJSquishy @ Aug 21 2009, 01:56 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820448





> All I can say is "wow". It's extremely saddening to see people ruin what reputable breeders have worked so hard for for many years.
> 
> Was this on a "reputable" show breeder's website??? I can hardly believe it would be...[/B]



Please forgive me if I don't post correctly here, this is my 1st post & I haven't figured this all out yet. I've enjoyed reading the information on this site for some time now but decided to actually "join" today due to this thread.

I asked myself what is a "reputable" breeder....I thought I knew but decided to do a search & educate myself more on the subject since I am only a Maltese owner not a breeder. After doing some research, I feel the breeder in question has some red flags.

The breeder in question may Not be what some call a "reputable" breeder, I now realize this due to the fact that she decided to dabble into mixing breeds & asking High prices for them, which doesn't do a darn thing for the "Maltese" breed at all. I Know of this person & I want to say she Originally had those mixed dogs listed for $1,000/$1,200 & I have a copy of the page from a certain petfinder site. She Lowered the price to $800/$900 right before she made her statement as to why she decided to do the breeding. 
I have now read here that she doesn't even have the puppies on her website now. Personally I feel if you are a "reputable" breeder you would have just told your friend a big fat *No Thanks* to the breeding of your Maltese to a already mixed breed dog & not try & sell mixed breed puppies at Outrageous prices! 
So is this person who has a website, an online group, has ads on a petfind site, has champion dogs who she breeds to get the *Smallest* she can at the *Highest* prices a "reputable" breeder? I don't think she is. I think she's just out for the big $$$. And now I think it even more since she's trying to cash in on mixed breed puppies which aren't even priced at comparable prices for her state.
 
I think she should have said "No Thanks" to the breeding of her Maltese since it did Nothing to Improve the Breed, but Greed has a way of taking over some, which may be the case.

Sad that this is my 1st post, Hopefully I'll be able to comment on something more Positive soon!

[/B][/QUOTE]


:goodpost: Touche'


----------



## Ladysmom

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 21 2009, 03:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820465


> QUOTE (LJSquishy @ Aug 21 2009, 11:56 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820448





> All I can say is "wow". It's extremely saddening to see people ruin what reputable breeders have worked so hard for for many years.
> 
> Was this on a "reputable" show breeder's website??? I can hardly believe it would be...[/B]


I believe she has been considered a reputable show breeder, however is not publicaly listed on the AMA site.

The following is an excerpt from the site where the pup is posted:

(joe edit: please link to the info)

Of course the pup will be health checked OK - the bitch belongs to the vet! Shameful - both of them :thmbdn:
[/B][/QUOTE]


I Googled "this gorgeous puppy is sired by a Maltese Champion and the mother is a Bichon-Pom Hybrid. Health
guarantee for 1 yr" and found the Puppyfind ad for anyone who is curious about who the breeder is.


----------



## Harley & Dakotas Mum

On a side note, I'm amazed this 'Vet' has a whole bitch :shocked: Don't most Vets recommend spay/neuter of pets??


----------



## princessre

:confused1: :faint: :confused1: didn't someone here get a Malt from them recently?


----------



## Vanitysmom

QUOTE (LuvMyFurbaby @ Aug 21 2009, 08:57 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820264


> I don't get it. Aren't there enough "mixed" "hybrid" dogs out there and in the shelters not to mention pure breed Maltese??? Don't want to trash the breeder but just looking for opinions?
> 
> 
> Hi All
> 
> I have recently been addressed because I have mixed breed puppies on my site. I was asked why so I thought it best to answer publicly. I did a breeding with my Veterinarian friend. She has gorgeous Pomeranian-Bichon female with an excellent temperment, a beuatiful silk coat, extroidinary points and very healthy. She asked me to breed her Pom-bi to a Maltese Champ of mine. We did so and had a litter of 6 adorable puppies. All are small and will be 4-5 pounds full grown. They will have the same 2 yr health guarantee I offer for all of my puppies. They will have the same level of Verterinaian care as all my other dogs. I saw this as a one time experience and feel it was quite successful in as much as the puppies are healthy, beautiful and display the Maltese temperment. Two are taken, 4 are available at reasonable prices. As amatter of fact, the AKC is now offering regitration for hybrid breeds like this and they will be included in many sporting events as well as AKC registration. So my answer to the person that questioned me is this...why not? They will be sold to loving homes with responsible families. I hope this answers your question. Anyone interested in the puppies, see my website puppy page.[/B]


This is extremely sad.........not only for the people who has entrusted this breeder with their dogs but also for the unsuspecting public. This breeder portrays herself as a reputable show breeder yet does something like this. :smmadder: *No* reputable breeder would knowingly breed mixed breed puppies........period!!!! :smmadder: :smmadder: 

Shame on her for abusing the trust of the breeders who let her have some of their dogs!


----------



## bellaratamaltese

QUOTE (Vanitysmom @ Aug 21 2009, 03:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820540


> QUOTE (LuvMyFurbaby @ Aug 21 2009, 08:57 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820264





> I don't get it. Aren't there enough "mixed" "hybrid" dogs out there and in the shelters not to mention pure breed Maltese??? Don't want to trash the breeder but just looking for opinions?
> 
> 
> Hi All
> 
> I have recently been addressed because I have mixed breed puppies on my site. I was asked why so I thought it best to answer publicly. I did a breeding with my Veterinarian friend. She has gorgeous Pomeranian-Bichon female with an excellent temperment, a beuatiful silk coat, extroidinary points and very healthy. She asked me to breed her Pom-bi to a Maltese Champ of mine. We did so and had a litter of 6 adorable puppies. All are small and will be 4-5 pounds full grown. They will have the same 2 yr health guarantee I offer for all of my puppies. They will have the same level of Verterinaian care as all my other dogs. I saw this as a one time experience and feel it was quite successful in as much as the puppies are healthy, beautiful and display the Maltese temperment. Two are taken, 4 are available at reasonable prices. As amatter of fact, the AKC is now offering regitration for hybrid breeds like this and they will be included in many sporting events as well as AKC registration. So my answer to the person that questioned me is this...why not? They will be sold to loving homes with responsible families. I hope this answers your question. Anyone interested in the puppies, see my website puppy page.[/B]


This is extremely sad.........not only for the people who has entrusted this breeder with their dogs but also for the unsuspecting public. This breeder portrays herself as a reputable show breeder yet does something like this. :smmadder: *No* reputable breeder would knowingly breed mixed breed puppies........period!!!! :smmadder: :smmadder: 

Shame on her for abusing the trust of the breeders who let her have some of their dogs!
[/B][/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more. And not only that, but selling them for prices that indicate purely a financial motive. I also feel there is no way there can be any size guarantee, seeing as how the puppies are only 5 weeks old, and given the breeds behind this litter. 

If she was only letting her friend use her stud, that is one thing (don't agree with it, but hey, I'm sure it happens, esp in this economic time. ) But she is selling these puppies using her 'reputation' as a show breeder to make it seem legit and that I do not agree with.


----------



## Ladysmom

QUOTE (princessre @ Aug 21 2009, 05:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820510


> :confused1: :faint: :confused1: didn't someone here get a Malt from them recently?[/B]


We had a newbie last month who was considering get two puppies from this breeder, but she only posted about 20 times so I don't know whether she did or not.


----------



## luvmyfurbaby

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Aug 21 2009, 08:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820587


> QUOTE (princessre @ Aug 21 2009, 05:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820510





> :confused1: :faint: :confused1: didn't someone here get a Malt from them recently?[/B]


We had a newbie last month who was considering get two puppies from this breeder, but she only posted about 20 times so I don't know whether she did or not.
[/B][/QUOTE]


She is still on here and was on today. I hope she found a pup else where. :mellow:


----------



## stampin4fun

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Aug 21 2009, 08:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820587


> QUOTE (princessre @ Aug 21 2009, 05:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820510





> :confused1: :faint: :confused1: didn't someone here get a Malt from them recently?[/B]


We had a newbie last month who was considering get two puppies from this breeder, but she only posted about 20 times so I don't know whether she did or not.
[/B][/QUOTE]


That was me. I was looking for two for early Spring 2010 and I have to say all of this talk has me a little worried.

-Rita


----------



## ilovemymaltese

I can't believe she would do this... She was a breeder I had a great relationship her with when I was looking for a pup. I wouldv'e gotten a pup from her too then but she had no females available then.

Thanks for letting us know Maggie. Be sure to stay away.


----------



## 08chrissy08

I'm completely astonished and very saddened. Disgusting.


----------



## kikiiniowa

Would someone please pm me who this breeder is so that I know to stay away in the future? Thank you.


----------



## angel's mom

I am in shock!


----------



## 3Maltmom

QUOTE (kikiiniowa @ Aug 21 2009, 11:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820709


> Would someone please pm me who this breeder is so that I know to stay away in the future? Thank you.[/B]


Nope, won't PM you, but I _will _put it on a public forum. She has gone public with this (her website, and Puppyfind).

No, it's not a secret. Here ya go: http://www.puppyfind.com/l/?acct_id=214106...af64b31186da6f1

It's Silver Brook Maltese. Here's her Official Website: http://www.puppyfind.com/redirect/?acct_id...t_id=0bq2mo625u


----------



## roxybaby22

QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Aug 22 2009, 02:17 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820728


> QUOTE (kikiiniowa @ Aug 21 2009, 11:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820709





> Would someone please pm me who this breeder is so that I know to stay away in the future? Thank you.[/B]


Nope, won't PM you, but I _will _put it on a public forum. She has gone public with this (her website, and Petfinder).

No, it's no secret. Here ya go: http://www.puppyfind.com/l/?acct_id=214106...af64b31186da6f1

It's Silver Brooke Maltese.
[/B][/QUOTE]

:aktion033: Go Deb! I should have done that, but I'm a wimp.


----------



## ilovemymaltese

QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Aug 22 2009, 02:17 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820728


> QUOTE (kikiiniowa @ Aug 21 2009, 11:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820709





> Would someone please pm me who this breeder is so that I know to stay away in the future? Thank you.[/B]


Nope, won't PM you, but I _will _put it on a public forum. She has gone public with this (her website, and Petfinder).

No, it's not a secret. Here ya go: http://www.puppyfind.com/l/?acct_id=214106...af64b31186da6f1

It's Silver Brook Maltese. Here's her Official Website: http://www.puppyfind.com/redirect/?acct_id...t_id=0bq2mo625u
[/B][/QUOTE]

Way to go Deb!


----------



## myfairlacy

Never heard of this breeder before but I think this is disgusting. Shame on her and the vet for adding to the overpopulation of mixed breed dogs. A Pom/bichon mix sounds like an extremely odd mix..and how can you describe a pom/bichon's hair as being silky when neither breed has "silky" hair?? And why in the world would anyone keep a mixed breed dog intact intending to breed it later? That's just stupidity in my opinion...a vet should know better so yes it's stupidity. A maltese/pom/bichon mix just sounds like any other mutt that can be found in rescues and shelters..I don't care if the puppies are half champion maltese or not. Still makes them regular mixed breed pet quality puppies. And to pay $800 for a mixed breed dog that could be found in a rescue group for much less is just ignorance. I deplore the designer dog breeding practices and anyone who chooses to do this is nothing but an unethical backyard breeder whether they show some of their dogs or not. Just because someone shows does NOT make them reputable..there are a lot of unethical people that show just so they can make more money on their "champion sired" puppies... This breeder is disgusting


----------



## 3Maltmom

QUOTE (MyFairLacy @ Aug 22 2009, 01:42 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820732


> Never heard of this breeder before but I think this is disgusting. Shame on her and the vet for adding to the overpopulation of mixed breed dogs. A Pom/bichon mix sounds like an extremely odd mix..and how can you describe a pom/bichon's hair as being silky when neither breed has "silky" hair?? And why in the world would anyone keep a mixed breed dog intact intending to breed it later? That's just stupidity in my opinion...a vet should know better so yes it's stupidity. A maltese/pom/bichon mix just sounds like any other mutt that can be found in rescues and shelters..I don't care if the puppies are half champion maltese or not. Still makes them regular mixed breed pet quality puppies. And to pay $800 for a mixed breed dog that could be found in a rescue group for much less is just ignorance. I deplore the designer dog breeding practices and anyone who chooses to do this is nothing but an unethical backyard breeder whether they show some of their dogs or not. Just because someone shows does NOT make them reputable..there are a lot of unethical people that show just so they can make more money on their "champion sired" puppies... This breeder is disgusting[/B]



I agree 100%. And the fact that we are out of room, and running out of funds, trying to save these dogs, when we DON'T breed them. 

Sickens me that there are unethical show breeders out there. We have our hands full enough with the BYB's, Mills, and irresponsible owners.

We, rescues, BEG for money to save these little lives. To give them some happiness, and comfort, before they leave this world. Bull Crap is expected
from the Mills, and BYB's, but it's a kick in the teeth when I feel it's one of "our own".

I must say, I have a bad taste in my mouth for most breeders these days. 

Also, I edited my original response. I did say Petfinder. She's on Puppyfind NOT Petfinder. Petfinder flippin' rocks. They are all about rescue.
My fosters are on their page. I'm just so used to talking about Petfinder, it flew out of my fingers. 

Also, I did spell Silver Brooke, rather than Silver Brook. I don't want any misunderstandings, as to the name of the Kennel.

So once again, it's *Silver Brook.* And *Petfinder ROCKS*, *Puppyfind does NOT.
*


----------



## angel's mom

Deb rocks too! :rochard: :rochard: :you rock:


----------



## jadey

Thanks for posting this Im not surprised.


----------



## lottapaws

This breeder, Tammy, states that these mixed breed puppies are eligible for AKC registration as well as NKC (or something like that about which I've never heard). And under what breed will these puppies be registered? Mixed??? Mongrel??? Mutt???? :smrofl: Since she is the one selling the pups rather than the vet who has the female, wouldn't one suspect that it wasn't just the vet's idea? I have to believe that this was a joint venture to make a few extra dollars and to see if there would be more money in the "designer" breed pups than in showing and raising purebreeds. That is just an assumption and you know what it means when you "assume". I don't know any of this for a fact, and I shouldn't judge. But I just can't help but think.....it's all about the money. What else would it be?


----------



## iheartbisou

*Please!* Paying almost 1,000 for a mixed breed puppy???? I'd go first (a million times) to the local shelter and rescue one for whatever the adoption fee was (and they have plenty of mixed breed puppies!!).

And to think that a Vet would have something to do with it too?! Personally I think both of them should be very ashamed of themselves. And evidently, not all 'show breeders' have ethics when it comes to breeding.


----------



## mi_ku_5

I'm shocked! It's bad when the ignorant do something like this thinking their dog "is cute and everyone would love a puppy", it really bad when millers and BYBs do it for money, but it's just sickening when two people who are supposed to be educated and ethical would do this! I also don't see how they can offer a health guarantee, it's a good bet the bitch came from bad/unknown lines and when you go mixing three different breeds you have no idea what you will get genetically. If she's giving guarantees like that, she probably has no intention of honoring them. If I'd been one of the breeders who sold to her, I'd be fuming!


----------



## luvmyfurbaby

QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Aug 22 2009, 02:17 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820728


> QUOTE (kikiiniowa @ Aug 21 2009, 11:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820709





> Would someone please pm me who this breeder is so that I know to stay away in the future? Thank you.[/B]


Nope, won't PM you, but I _will _put it on a public forum. She has gone public with this (her website, and Puppyfind).

No, it's not a secret. Here ya go: http://www.puppyfind.com/l/?acct_id=214106...af64b31186da6f1

It's Silver Brook Maltese. Here's her Official Website: http://www.puppyfind.com/redirect/?acct_id...t_id=0bq2mo625u
[/B][/QUOTE]

There were two reasons I didn't post the name of the breeder. 1. I didn't want this thread closed or to disappear. I was just trying to get opinions to see if I was way off in my thoughts on the issue. 2. I didn't want the kennel name to move up in a Google search or Yahoo search which in turn would promote her website higher in the rankings. It will take awhile for this thread to even show up in the search engines.


QUOTE (lottapaws @ Aug 22 2009, 05:09 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820746


> This breeder, Tammy, states that these mixed breed puppies are eligible for AKC registration as well as NKC (or something like that about which I've never heard). And under what breed will these puppies be registered? Mixed??? Mongrel??? Mutt???? :smrofl: Since she is the one selling the pups rather than the vet who has the female, wouldn't one suspect that it wasn't just the vet's idea? I have to believe that this was a joint venture to make a few extra dollars and to see if there would be more money in the "designer" breed pups than in showing and raising purebreeds. That is just an assumption and you know what it means when you "assume". I don't know any of this for a fact, and I shouldn't judge. But I just can't help but think.....it's all about the money. What else would it be?[/B]


She is being misleading saying AKC registrable because AKC is registering for agility and such Not confirmation on these hybrid/mixed/mutt breeds. She is actually playing with the wording. http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=3810 AKC in my opinion is out to make a quick buck allowing this.


----------



## k/c mom

QUOTE (MyFairLacy @ Aug 22 2009, 02:42 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820732


> Never heard of this breeder before but I think this is disgusting. Shame on her and the vet for adding to the overpopulation of mixed breed dogs. A Pom/bichon mix sounds like an extremely odd mix..and how can you describe a pom/bichon's hair as being silky when neither breed has "silky" hair?? And why in the world would anyone keep a mixed breed dog intact intending to breed it later? That's just stupidity in my opinion...a vet should know better so yes it's stupidity. A maltese/pom/bichon mix just sounds like any other mutt that can be found in rescues and shelters..I don't care if the puppies are half champion maltese or not. Still makes them regular mixed breed pet quality puppies. And to pay $800 for a mixed breed dog that could be found in a rescue group for much less is just ignorance. I deplore the designer dog breeding practices and anyone who chooses to do this is nothing but an unethical backyard breeder whether they show some of their dogs or not. Just because someone shows does NOT make them reputable..there are a lot of unethical people that show just so they can make more money on their "champion sired" puppies... This breeder is disgusting[/B]


Great post! You read my mind!


----------



## fernsprite

QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Aug 22 2009, 01:17 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820728


> QUOTE (kikiiniowa @ Aug 21 2009, 11:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820709





> Would someone please pm me who this breeder is so that I know to stay away in the future? Thank you.[/B]


Nope, won't PM you, but I _will _put it on a public forum. She has gone public with this (her website, and Puppyfind).

No, it's not a secret. Here ya go: http://www.puppyfind.com/l/?acct_id=214106...af64b31186da6f1

It's Silver Brook Maltese. Here's her Official Website: http://www.puppyfind.com/redirect/?acct_id...t_id=0bq2mo625u
[/B][/QUOTE]



Thank You for doing this & you are Absolutely Right...
She put it out to the public so Why Shouldn't it be able to be shared & discussed & used as a learning experience by doing so?!
I know I personally have learned something from all of this.

I have to Wonder if there Really Is a Vet involved?? Or is this just some ploy to sell mixed breed puppies?? Anyone can say their "Vet Friend" was involved or did this or that, & like someone else mentioned (in so many words) what kind of Responsible Vet keeps an intact female?? 
Perhaps it's just another "Non-Ethical Breeder" involved?
Another sales pitch perhaps to quickly unload Over Priced mixed breed puppies? Does she think by Over Pricing them somehow makes them a better quality? I don't think so, I know a few people might be swayed to think so!
I feel sorry for the puppies, Hopefully they will find good homes & those people won't breed the parents again. But if they Do sell those puppies at high prices, who's to say they won't do it again & just not go so public? 

I Don't feel sorry for this breeder. If she has worked hard to try & build a Good reputation in the Maltese Dog Breeding World she made a Huge Greedy Mistake & Only She can be blamed for that, not anyone discussing the situation. It was her Choice to do what she did & it did Nothing for the Maltese Breed....only to help her bank account!!! 
She Knew it was Wrong but did it anyways.


----------



## princessre

It's really sad that a show breeder would resort to this...But I just have to say that we have many intelligent friends who have bought mix-breed dogs in the last couple years, and it seems to be a trend that is growing and growing.

I'm not sure it's obvious to the public why buying mixed-breed, designer dogs for these prices is evil. If you had to educate the public in very simple layman terms why it is so bad to do so, what would you say? (I've thought about saying something to our friends, but never did because I never could find a way in my mind to articulate it in a way that I thought would be convincing to them) I've had one friend who told me it's the same as not allowing people of different races to marry!


----------



## Starsmom

Since Deb let the pup out of the bag sort of speaking...Here's the Malt Tammy's selling on the web. This one comes with a 2 year health guarantee, and her website clearly states pups are sold with a 1 year h.g.. Note this one is not CH sired, cost $2000 - I think all this is just a $$$ maker for her. She has stepped onto a slippery slope. I view her as just another BYB/miller but with credentials. I would think any of the Maltese Clubs she belongs to would be interested in knowing one of their members is promoting/breeding/selling mixed breed pups. Since I don't have a clue how the show circuit goes I'd like to ask a question - Why would a breeder in western PA go all the way to MO and KS to show in a competition?

Here's the Malt from the puppy website:

(joe edit: please link to the info)


----------



## roxybaby22

QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 22 2009, 09:39 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820783


> Thank You for doing this & you are Absolutely Right...
> She put it out to the public so Why Shouldn't it be able to be shared & discussed & used as a learning experience by doing so?!
> I know I personally have learned something from all of this.
> 
> *I have to Wonder if there Really Is a Vet involved?? Or is this just some ploy to sell mixed breed puppies?? Anyone can say their "Vet Friend" was involved or did this or that, & like someone else mentioned (in so many words) what kind of Responsible Vet keeps an intact female??
> Perhaps it's just another "Non-Ethical Breeder" involved?
> Another sales pitch perhaps to quickly unload Over Priced mixed breed puppies? Does she think by Over Pricing them somehow makes them a better quality? I don't think so, I know a few people might be swayed to think so!
> I feel sorry for the puppies, Hopefully they will find good homes & those people won't breed the parents again. But if they Do sell those puppies at high prices, who's to say they won't do it again & just not go so public? *
> 
> I Don't feel sorry for this breeder. If she has worked hard to try & build a Good reputation in the Maltese Dog Breeding World she made a Huge Greedy Mistake & Only She can be blamed for that, not anyone discussing the situation. It was her Choice to do what she did & it did Nothing for the Maltese Breed....only to help her bank account!!!
> She Knew it was Wrong but did it anyways.
> [/B]


:goodpost:

To tell you the truth, I don't think there really is a vet friend. She has already twisted words and resorted to the actions of a BYB--- she is a BYB, so I don't find a reason to believe that story about the vet friend.


----------



## luvmyfurbaby

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 22 2009, 10:41 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820793


> Why would a breeder in western PA go all the way to MO and KS to show in a competition?[/B]


Show breeders show all over in order to get enough points to CH their dogs. Financially it makes sense to stay in your area but if there aren't enough shows in the area they need to travel to get to a show that has other Maltese entered in them. Hope that makes sense.


----------



## allheart

Maggie,

You did a very very good thing bringing this to light....bless you for it.

How very sad....very....I'm still in shock.


----------



## fernsprite

As I had mentioned before, she had those mixed puppies listed at a Higher price Before she made her "Why Not" to the breeding statement. She had them listed at $1,000males/$1,200females!!! Who pays that for mixed breed puppies?? 
For some reason (I'm not computer savvy) my copy & paste won't show up correctly but this Is what she had on the puppyfind site Before she made her why she did it statement.
It's all about the $$ obviously. 



(joe edit: please link to the info)


----------



## mi_ku_5

QUOTE (princessre @ Aug 22 2009, 09:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820792


> It's really sad that a show breeder would resort to this...But I just have to say that we have many intelligent friends who have bought mix-breed dogs in the last couple years, and it seems to be a trend that is growing and growing.
> 
> I'm not sure it's obvious to the public why buying mixed-breed, designer dogs for these prices is evil. If you had to educate the public in very simple layman terms why it is so bad to do so, what would you say? (I've thought about saying something to our friends, but never did because I never could find a way in my mind to articulate it in a way that I thought would be convincing to them) I've had one friend who told me it's the same as not allowing people of different races to marry![/B]



When you get right down to it, it's more about breeding for profit and less about mixing breeds. No one should buy from someone who breeds for profit, whether they sell purebreds, mutts or both. Having said that, finding a Designer Dog breeder who health tests, shows or proves their dog in someway, screens buyers and socializes their pups is about as easy as finding a Chupacabra. Bringing mixed race marriages into it is flat out dumb, IMO. Dog don't pick their mates or fall in love. Humans are in charge of whether a dog is bred and who it is bred too. If we were saying it's wrong for two different breeds to live together, then it might be a valid argument.


----------



## mi_ku_5

Darn it, the edit option timed out. I want to make sure you know I wasn't calling you dumb, just *your friends argument *about mixed race marriage and designer dog breeding.


----------



## maggieh

QUOTE (mi_ku_5 @ Aug 22 2009, 12:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820837


> Darn it, the edit option timed out. I want to make sure you know I wasn't calling you dumb, just *your friends argument *about mixed race marriage and designer dog breeding.[/B]


It's hard to compare people getting married to breeding dogs. People don't get married to "better the breed" - at least I hope not! :new_shocked: And dog breeders aren't looking for a lifelong partner for their dogs. (Of course, some people who get married . . . oops never mind). 

Anyway, I'm so tired of people calling mixed breeds "designer dogs." They are mixes, aka mutts, and while they make absolutely wonderful pets (my rescue Tessa is a mix) the people selling them are just lining their pockets at the expense of an unknowing public and innocent pups. Greeders indeed! :angry:


----------



## bellaratamaltese

The two little boy pups are cute - but the girls look like something you'd expect to find from a puppy mill, not very pretty puppies and resemble poorly bred maltese. (which makes sense, since puppy mills breed bichon into their lines for the bigger litters) And I still say there is no way she can guarantee size. Not at 5 weeks and definitely not considering what is behind those pups, which makes it even a worse deception.

All I can say is... I hope it was worth it. I don't think this is something her reputation will 'recover' from and she has not helped herself with her asking 'why not?'


----------



## theboyz

Sad isn't it Stacy. In one of the emails I got from her she asked "Why do you care what I do?".

I know how hard it is to get a healthy line established and then get to the "show" stage. You are right, why would she risk all this work, dedication, reputation and health of her Maltese to do this breeding?
She had many excuses but it all comes down to NOT respecting and defending the Maltese Breed which you expect and admire in the good breeders.

She will never undo her wrong.


----------



## k/c mom

QUOTE (theboyz @ Aug 22 2009, 01:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820854


> Sad isn't it Stacy. In one of the emails I got from her she asked "Why do you care what I do?".
> 
> I know how hard it is to get a healthy line established and then get to the "show" stage. You are right, why would she risk all this work, dedication, reputation and health of her Maltese to do this breeding?
> She had many excuses but it all comes down to NOT respecting and defending the Maltese Breed which you expect and admire in the good breeders.
> 
> *She will never undo her wrong.*[/B]


I agree, but so many people are clueless why what she did is wrong and once this blows over, the average/typical puppy-buying person won't even know about it ...


----------



## 3Maltmom

QUOTE (roxybaby22 @ Aug 22 2009, 10:52 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820798


> QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 22 2009, 09:39 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820783





> Thank You for doing this & you are Absolutely Right...
> She put it out to the public so Why Shouldn't it be able to be shared & discussed & used as a learning experience by doing so?!
> I know I personally have learned something from all of this.
> 
> *I have to Wonder if there Really Is a Vet involved?? Or is this just some ploy to sell mixed breed puppies?? Anyone can say their "Vet Friend" was involved or did this or that, & like someone else mentioned (in so many words) what kind of Responsible Vet keeps an intact female??
> Perhaps it's just another "Non-Ethical Breeder" involved?
> Another sales pitch perhaps to quickly unload Over Priced mixed breed puppies? Does she think by Over Pricing them somehow makes them a better quality? I don't think so, I know a few people might be swayed to think so!
> I feel sorry for the puppies, Hopefully they will find good homes & those people won't breed the parents again. But if they Do sell those puppies at high prices, who's to say they won't do it again & just not go so public? *
> 
> I Don't feel sorry for this breeder. If she has worked hard to try & build a Good reputation in the Maltese Dog Breeding World she made a Huge Greedy Mistake & Only She can be blamed for that, not anyone discussing the situation. It was her Choice to do what she did & it did Nothing for the Maltese Breed....only to help her bank account!!!
> She Knew it was Wrong but did it anyways.
> [/B]


 :goodpost: 

To tell you the truth, I don't think there really is a vet friend. *She has already twisted words and resorted to the actions of a BYB*--- she is a BYB, so I don't find a reason to believe that story about the vet friend.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Perhaps she should change her kennel name to_ "Silver Tongue Devil",_ rather than "Silver Brook". 

I'm now questioning her original breeding program in the first place.

Yep, no matter the breeder, and recommendations, tons of research must be done, before purchasing.


----------



## roxybaby22

QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Aug 22 2009, 03:33 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820898


> QUOTE (roxybaby22 @ Aug 22 2009, 10:52 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820798





> To tell you the truth, I don't think there really is a vet friend. *She has already twisted words and resorted to the actions of a BYB*--- she is a BYB, so I don't find a reason to believe that story about the vet friend.[/B]


Perhaps she should change her kennel name to_ *"Silver Tongue Devil"*,_ rather than "Silver Brook". 

*I'm now questioning her original breeding program in the first place.*

Yep, no matter the breeder, and recommendations, tons of research must be done, before purchasing.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Yep, good one, Deb! :biggrin: 

I too am questioning her original breeding and her views on breeding. The way she is breeding now screams "I just want money", instead of "I want to better the breed and never raise the abandoned pet population."


----------



## notori

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Aug 22 2009, 12:17 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820843


> The two little boy pups are cute - but the girls look like something you'd expect to find from a puppy mill, not very pretty puppies and resemble poorly bred maltese. (which makes sense, since puppy mills breed bichon into their lines for the bigger litters) And I still say there is no way she can guarantee size. Not at 5 weeks and definitely not considering what is behind those pups, which makes it even a worse deception.
> 
> All I can say is... I hope it was worth it. I don't think this is something her reputation will 'recover' from and she has not helped herself with her asking 'why not?'[/B]


Stacy, Reading these posts, I have to say that I understand the fury this has brought. Although, I don't think there is a Vet involved, and, we breeders are very aware of this person, she is "not one of our own". I'm sure the breeders of the Champions she has are not too happy right now.
All we can do is make people aware and tell them to do their homework before they buy a pup from anyone. See you in Cal this October.
Char
Notori~Maltese


----------



## theboyz

Tammy of Silver Brook has a Maltese Forum and she is justifying her choice to do this breeding.
One of the breeders that is backing her is the lady from Coginsmaltese.com

Birds of a feather........
As I learn of other so called breeders I will post them also.


----------



## Starsmom

QUOTE (theboyz @ Aug 22 2009, 01:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820938


> Tammy of Silver Brook has a Maltese Forum and she is justifying her choice to do this breeding.
> One of the breeders that is backing her is the lady from Coginsmaltese.com
> 
> Birds of a feather........
> As I learn of other so called breeders I will post them also.[/B]


http://conginsmaltese.com - now it's clickable.  

Good! It's time the rats got flushed out! :yes: How does one find her forum? BTW, this one is not publicaly listed on AMA either. - is she a member?


----------



## theboyz

Cogins Maltese sell Tea Cups!!!!!! She also has Poms....is something adding up. :shocked: 
She has a male on loan from Tammy also.

This is the forum but you have to have the owner's approval....which is Tammy!!

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/MalteseAddiction/


----------



## Ladysmom

I smell a rat!!!

http://www.coginspomeranians.com/coginshomepage.htm


----------



## myfairlacy

QUOTE (princessre @ Aug 22 2009, 09:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820792


> It's really sad that a show breeder would resort to this...But I just have to say that we have many intelligent friends who have bought mix-breed dogs in the last couple years, and it seems to be a trend that is growing and growing.
> 
> I'm not sure it's obvious to the public why buying mixed-breed, designer dogs for these prices is evil. If you had to educate the public in very simple layman terms why it is so bad to do so, what would you say? (I've thought about saying something to our friends, but never did because I never could find a way in my mind to articulate it in a way that I thought would be convincing to them) I've had one friend who told me it's the same as not allowing people of different races to marry![/B]



I'll try to express my thoughts on it...

I don't know the exact number but there are currently almost 300 different dog breeds recognized by the AKC today...these dogs come in all sizes, colors, hair lengths, hair textures, personalities, and instints/abilities that they were designed to do. With almost 300 breeds, it would seem that there would be at least ONE breed out there that is a perfect match for whatever someone is looking for in a dog. Note..I don't have a problem with people that are seriously trying to develop a new breed and work at it with a goal in mind. But I do have a problem with people that just breed two dogs together with no longterm "breed" goal in mind (which is 99.9% of these people that breed mixes).

Also there are millions of dogs that are euthanized in shelters every year. There are simply not enough homes for all the dogs born every year and because of this dogs end up on the streets, neglected, abused, and fill our shelters and rescue groups. Most end up having to be euthanized because there is just no where to keep them and give them the quality of life they deserve. So my thoughts are if you are bringing more dogs into this world, you better have a good reason for doing so and these dogs better be something extra special. Only those dogs that are physically, behaviorally, and health-wise what the breed is meant to be should be bred. Or if it's a working breed, the dog better have exceptional working abilities that they can pass on to their offspring. 

Breeding two breeds together is usually done with no goal in mind other than to get cute puppies that can be sold for money to pet homes. These people don't have a goal to develop a new breed (AKC won't recognize a new "breed" that is a hybrid of only two other purebreds). When you breed mixes you have NO idea how they are going to turn out. A litter can grow up and look extremely different from one another. You can breed a poodle and a yorkie..will they turn out more poodle like, yorkie like, totally different from either breed? You just don't know. When you buy a well-bred purebred, you should know exactly what you are getting. With a mixed breed you have no idea what they will turn out to be. If I'm paying big money for a pet I want to know that I'm getting a dog that looks like I want it to look...coat color, texture, conformation and I want to know what temperment is expected. I'm not going to pay a lot of money for a dog that may or may not end up looking like the last breed combo I saw. 

There are tons of mixes and pet quality purebreds in shelters and rescues. If someone doesn't have a certain "look" they are going for, I'm sure they can easily find a dog that is the breed or mix that they desire in a shelter. 

And I have a real problem with making money off of living beings..companions to humans. When you breed a dog, you are risking their health and life and you should have a good reason for breeding them. Breeding a dog just to get puppies you can sell is NOT a good reason to risk that females life. So I won't support someone that doesn't breed for the right reasons. And I can't stand the thought of someoen making their living by selling innocent puppies. And that's what people that breed mixes are doing.


----------



## 3Maltmom

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 22 2009, 05:17 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820959


> QUOTE (theboyz @ Aug 22 2009, 01:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820938





> Tammy of Silver Brook has a Maltese Forum and she is justifying her choice to do this breeding.
> One of the breeders that is backing her is the lady from Coginsmaltese.com
> 
> Birds of a feather........
> As I learn of other so called breeders I will post them also.[/B]


http://conginsmaltese.com - now it's clickable.  

Good! *It's time the rats got flushed out!* :yes: How does one find her forum? BTW, this one is not publicaly listed on AMA either. - is she a member?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Yep, it's long overdue. :thumbsup: Her forum is private, so I'm sure she's not allowing any newbies at the moment. 
But hey, she's more than welcome to join us, here on SM. I suppose it's "safer" for her to hide behind her own forum, which she can pick/choose who
is a member.

Too bad the pups, she's breeding, don't have that option. I'm sure they would have picked a better breeder. 

QUOTE (theboyz @ Aug 22 2009, 05:33 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820966


> *Cogins Maltese sell Tea Cups!!!!!! She also has Poms....is something adding up. :shocked:
> She has a male on loan from Tammy also.
> 
> *[/B]



I also find the "vet" story, very fishy. Sounds like a couple of backyard idiots, with brainstorm ideas, to make a buck.


----------



## MaryH

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 22 2009, 06:17 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820959


> BTW, this one is not publicaly listed on AMA either. - is she a member?[/B]


The AMA is a private social welfare organization and while some members have chosen to be listed on the Breeder Referral List, the membership roster is private. As you noted, this breeder is not on the AMA Breeder Referral List. I also do not see anywhere on her website where she claims to be an AMA member. Most AMA members who have websites proudly make known that they are AMA members.

MaryH


----------



## princessre

:aktion033: Wow, thanks so much for your very articulate explanation of it. :aktion033: That makes alot of sense to me!! 

QUOTE (MyFairLacy @ Aug 22 2009, 06:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820969


> QUOTE (princessre @ Aug 22 2009, 09:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820792





> It's really sad that a show breeder would resort to this...But I just have to say that we have many intelligent friends who have bought mix-breed dogs in the last couple years, and it seems to be a trend that is growing and growing.
> 
> I'm not sure it's obvious to the public why buying mixed-breed, designer dogs for these prices is evil. If you had to educate the public in very simple layman terms why it is so bad to do so, what would you say? (I've thought about saying something to our friends, but never did because I never could find a way in my mind to articulate it in a way that I thought would be convincing to them) I've had one friend who told me it's the same as not allowing people of different races to marry![/B]



I'll try to express my thoughts on it...

I don't know the exact number but there are currently almost 300 different dog breeds recognized by the AKC today...these dogs come in all sizes, colors, hair lengths, hair textures, personalities, and instints/abilities that they were designed to do. With almost 300 breeds, it would seem that there would be at least ONE breed out there that is a perfect match for whatever someone is looking for in a dog. Note..I don't have a problem with people that are seriously trying to develop a new breed and work at it with a goal in mind. But I do have a problem with people that just breed two dogs together with no longterm "breed" goal in mind (which is 99.9% of these people that breed mixes).

Also there are millions of dogs that are euthanized in shelters every year. There are simply not enough homes for all the dogs born every year and because of this dogs end up on the streets, neglected, abused, and fill our shelters and rescue groups. Most end up having to be euthanized because there is just no where to keep them and give them the quality of life they deserve. So my thoughts are if you are bringing more dogs into this world, you better have a good reason for doing so and these dogs better be something extra special. Only those dogs that are physically, behaviorally, and health-wise what the breed is meant to be should be bred. Or if it's a working breed, the dog better have exceptional working abilities that they can pass on to their offspring. 

Breeding two breeds together is usually done with no goal in mind other than to get cute puppies that can be sold for money to pet homes. These people don't have a goal to develop a new breed (AKC won't recognize a new "breed" that is a hybrid of only two other purebreds). When you breed mixes you have NO idea how they are going to turn out. A litter can grow up and look extremely different from one another. You can breed a poodle and a yorkie..will they turn out more poodle like, yorkie like, totally different from either breed? You just don't know. When you buy a well-bred purebred, you should know exactly what you are getting. With a mixed breed you have no idea what they will turn out to be. If I'm paying big money for a pet I want to know that I'm getting a dog that looks like I want it to look...coat color, texture, conformation and I want to know what temperment is expected. I'm not going to pay a lot of money for a dog that may or may not end up looking like the last breed combo I saw. 

There are tons of mixes and pet quality purebreds in shelters and rescues. If someone doesn't have a certain "look" they are going for, I'm sure they can easily find a dog that is the breed or mix that they desire in a shelter. 

And I have a real problem with making money off of living beings..companions to humans. When you breed a dog, you are risking their health and life and you should have a good reason for breeding them. Breeding a dog just to get puppies you can sell is NOT a good reason to risk that females life. So I won't support someone that doesn't breed for the right reasons. And I can't stand the thought of someoen making their living by selling innocent puppies. And that's what people that breed mixes are doing.
[/B][/QUOTE]


----------



## ilovemymaltese

QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Aug 22 2009, 06:54 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820970


> QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 22 2009, 05:17 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820959





> QUOTE (theboyz @ Aug 22 2009, 01:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820938





> Tammy of Silver Brook has a Maltese Forum and she is justifying her choice to do this breeding.
> One of the breeders that is backing her is the lady from Coginsmaltese.com
> 
> Birds of a feather........
> As I learn of other so called breeders I will post them also.[/B]


http://conginsmaltese.com - now it's clickable.  

Good! *It's time the rats got flushed out!* :yes: How does one find her forum? BTW, this one is not publicaly listed on AMA either. - is she a member?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Yep, it's long overdue. :thumbsup: Her forum is private, so I'm sure she's not allowing any newbies at the moment. 
But hey, she's more than welcome to join us, here on SM. I suppose it's "safer" for her to hide behind her own forum, which she can pick/choose who
is a member.

Too bad the pups, she's breeding, don't have that option. I'm sure they would have picked a better breeder. 

QUOTE (theboyz @ Aug 22 2009, 05:33 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820966


> *Cogins Maltese sell Tea Cups!!!!!! She also has Poms....is something adding up. :shocked:
> She has a male on loan from Tammy also.
> 
> *[/B]



I also find the "vet" story, very fishy. Sounds like a couple of backyard idiots, with brainstorm ideas, to make a buck.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I just got approved to be on that forum! :biggrin:


----------



## roxybaby22

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Aug 22 2009, 10:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821015


> I just got approved to be on that forum! :biggrin:[/B]


Ditto! :biggrin: I've been reading up, and I must say most of the explanations and excuses are :thmbdn:


----------



## ilovemymaltese

I posted on there and used some great points from this thread.


----------



## Ladysmom

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Aug 23 2009, 12:43 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821056


> I posted on there and used some great points from this thread. [/B]


You'll probably be kicked off pretty soon!


----------



## babygirlmom

QUOTE (LuvMyFurbaby @ Aug 21 2009, 02:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820436


> Totally agree Bull Terriers are a combination of two breeds as well as the Maltese that is how they came about. This person is breeding for a friend a tri bred pup and advertising them first on her Maltese site and now on a puppy site. All I see is $$$$$$$ Her advertisement say's breed - Maltese which is very deceptive you need to read further to see that it is a mix and she even has them as AKC registrable. :smilie_tischkante:[/B]



Maybe I mis-read this, but what 2 breeds make up the Maltese?


----------



## fernsprite

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Aug 22 2009, 11:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821056


> I posted on there and used some great points from this thread. [/B]



It's very Doubtful she will Allow the post to go through, especially if it makes an excellent point or if it paints her in any kind of negative light. 
I am also a member there but on moderation because I had contacted her privately Months ago via her website (not through the group) about her products she sells. I was Seriously Considering investing in some since it seems all I had read was praise over them. She Ignored my questions for over 2 weeks but Magically answered them when a thread popped up on the group & I suggested for others to be careful of what the put in or around their dogs eyes & to ask questions about the products. I Never mentioned her products or her never answering my questions on the group. Needless to say, I did Not invest in her products due to the answers she gave me finally after my post, & I have been on moderation ever since. She called me an "alarmist" for asking questions about "Her" products & for being concerned about my dogs health & what she was suggesting I put in her eyes that she her self said had Not been "tested" or "approved" by anyone, but only that it was a trusted formula & her vet said it was OK. If her Vet says the products are ok why doesn't she put a statement on her site having the vet endorse the products?
Whatever.
I've got property in Florida to give away too.....
Not!
I'm all for the home business & making a living but don't expect me to spray your special formula made of Who Knows What (because she won't tell you what it is & I asked due to allergy reasons) in my dogs eyes...I don't want a Blind Maltese later!


----------



## Starsmom

QUOTE (Babygirlmom @ Aug 22 2009, 10:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821071


> QUOTE (LuvMyFurbaby @ Aug 21 2009, 02:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820436





> Totally agree Bull Terriers are a combination of two breeds as well as the Maltese that is how they came about. This person is breeding for a friend a tri bred pup and advertising them first on her Maltese site and now on a puppy site. All I see is $$$$$$$ Her advertisement say's breed - Maltese which is very deceptive you need to read further to see that it is a mix and she even has them as AKC registrable. :smilie_tischkante:[/B]



Maybe I mis-read this, but what 2 breeds make up the Maltese?
[/B][/QUOTE]To say AKC registerable it is not in the sense where we registered our fluffs. She is being VERY loose and free with her words. It's just a new program the AKC has cooked up for mixed breed dogs for competeing in stand alone agility, obedience, and rally evernts - not to mention make them more $$$ too. The NKC is just a registrartion for any mutt as well. 

This link will give you the AKC spin: http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=3810

It's a shame that a breeder would work for decades on developing a successful bloodline and in a moment of weakness and greed put all her hard work, and her reputation in the crapper in one swift act. :bysmilie: 

She has some very reputable bloodlines - the other breeders are probably grabbing for the smelling salts by now! :shocked:


----------



## Snowbody

QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 23 2009, 10:04 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821128


> QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Aug 22 2009, 11:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821056





> I posted on there and used some great points from this thread. [/B]



It's very Doubtful she will Allow the post to go through, especially if it makes an excellent point or if it paints her in any kind of negative light. 
I am also a member there but on moderation because I had contacted her privately Months ago via her website (not through the group) about her products she sells. I was Seriously Considering investing in some since it seems all I had read was praise over them. She Ignored my questions for over 2 weeks but Magically answered them when a thread popped up on the group & I suggested for others to be careful of what the put in or around their dogs eyes & to ask questions about the products. I Never mentioned her products or her never answering my questions on the group. Needless to say, I did Not invest in her products due to the answers she gave me finally after my post, & I have been on moderation ever since. She called me an "alarmist" for asking questions about "Her" products & for being concerned about my dogs health & what she was suggesting I put in her eyes that she her self said had Not been "tested" or "approved" by anyone, but only that it was a trusted formula & her vet said it was OK. If her Vet says the products are ok why doesn't she put a statement on her site having the vet endorse the products?
Whatever.
I've got property in Florida to give away too.....
Not!
I'm all for the home business & making a living but don't expect me to spray your special formula made of Who Knows What (because she won't tell you what it is & I asked due to allergy reasons) in my dogs eyes...I don't want a Blind Maltese later!
[/B][/QUOTE]
Sounds like the same "vet" :angry: she did the mating for pups with...meaning here that was probably BS as well. Really scary to read about what people will stoop to for the mighty dollar.


----------



## ilovemymaltese

QUOTE (Snowbody @ Aug 23 2009, 10:53 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821150


> QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 23 2009, 10:04 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821128





> QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Aug 22 2009, 11:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821056





> I posted on there and used some great points from this thread. [/B]



It's very Doubtful she will Allow the post to go through, especially if it makes an excellent point or if it paints her in any kind of negative light. 
I am also a member there but on moderation because I had contacted her privately Months ago via her website (not through the group) about her products she sells. I was Seriously Considering investing in some since it seems all I had read was praise over them. She Ignored my questions for over 2 weeks but Magically answered them when a thread popped up on the group & I suggested for others to be careful of what the put in or around their dogs eyes & to ask questions about the products. I Never mentioned her products or her never answering my questions on the group. Needless to say, I did Not invest in her products due to the answers she gave me finally after my post, & I have been on moderation ever since. She called me an "alarmist" for asking questions about "Her" products & for being concerned about my dogs health & what she was suggesting I put in her eyes that she her self said had Not been "tested" or "approved" by anyone, but only that it was a trusted formula & her vet said it was OK. If her Vet says the products are ok why doesn't she put a statement on her site having the vet endorse the products?
Whatever.
I've got property in Florida to give away too.....
Not!
I'm all for the home business & making a living but don't expect me to spray your special formula made of Who Knows What (because she won't tell you what it is & I asked due to allergy reasons) in my dogs eyes...I don't want a Blind Maltese later!
[/B][/QUOTE]
Sounds like the same "vet" :angry: she did the mating for pups with...meaning here that was probably BS as well. Really scary to read about what people will stoop to for the mighty dollar.
[/B][/QUOTE]

LOL she didn't allow it to go through, but I'm going to try a different way. At least she got to read it. I have what I wrote saved in a word document just in case.


----------



## 3Maltmom

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 23 2009, 10:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821148


> QUOTE (Babygirlmom @ Aug 22 2009, 10:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821071





> QUOTE (LuvMyFurbaby @ Aug 21 2009, 02:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820436





> Totally agree Bull Terriers are a combination of two breeds as well as the Maltese that is how they came about. This person is breeding for a friend a tri bred pup and advertising them first on her Maltese site and now on a puppy site. All I see is $$$$$$$ Her advertisement say's breed - Maltese which is very deceptive you need to read further to see that it is a mix and she even has them as AKC registrable. :smilie_tischkante:[/B]



Maybe I mis-read this, but what 2 breeds make up the Maltese?
[/B][/QUOTE]To say AKC registerable it is not in the sense where we registered our fluffs. She is being VERY loose and free with her words. It's just a new program the AKC has cooked up for mixed breed dogs for competeing in stand alone agility, obedience, and rally evernts - not to mention make them more $$$ too. The NKC is just a registrartion for any mutt as well. 

This link will give you the AKC spin: http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=3810

*It's a shame that a breeder would work for decades on developing a successful bloodline and in a moment of weakness and greed put all her hard work, and her reputation in the crapper in one swift act. :bysmilie: 
*
She has some very reputable bloodlines - the other breeders are probably grabbing for the smelling salts by now! :shocked: 


[/B][/QUOTE]


From my knowledge, Tammy has NOT worked on developing a successful bloodline. She has simply purchased other dogs, not bred any pups to show,
and her "claim to fame", are other breeding bitches and sires, from more successful breeders. 

Tammy, you are more than welcome to join this thread, and this forum. I know you are aware of it. So *PLEASE *fill us in. That would be the "cool" thing to do.

Anyway, Tammy, I'm thinking you purchased dogs, from another show breeder. Did not show them, nor had them in your sight. Yet, claim you have Champions.
Hmmm, what champs do you really have, and what have they produced? I'm not sure, and would like to know. 

As I've stated, I'm not sure, so fill us in. You are more than welcome. We would appreciate your side, as you will not allow certain posts on your forum.


----------



## joe

FYI - we know how these threads go off sometimes, to keep it open...

Please only post facts as you know them
Try not to post an "assumption" you have as fact (try to state the unknown "as your opinion")
do not get personal and call names
do not post images or text from other websites (links are OK)

thanks,
Joe


----------



## vjw

I have spent several hours this weekend researching canine genetics and it's been a huge eye-opener. I would like to challenge all of you to do research for yourselves on the genetics of purebreds versus mixed breeds. I would strongly encourage you to look at the articles in scientific journals by geneticists and veterinary geneticists. 

If you'll "google" or "google scholar" some of these topics, you'll find plenty of articles:

Inbreeding of Dogs/Canines
Mixed Breed Versus Purebred Dog/Canine Health
Canine Genetics
Canine Genetic Diversity
Canine Genetic Diseases
Genetic Population Bottlenecks in Dogs/Canines
Popular Sire Syndrome Dogs/Canines
Founder Effects Dogs/Canines
Linebreeding of Dogs/Canines
Canine Genomic Diversity
Canine Autosomal Recessive Disorders 
Canine Autosomal Dominant Disorders
Canine Polygenic Disorders/Complex Inheritance


Read Tuft's article from their 2005 Canine and Feline Breeding Conference

Read articles from Donald Patterson who is/was(?) the Chief of Medical Genetics at the University of Pennsylvania Veterinary School

Read the article titled "Population Structure and Inbreeding From Pedigree Analysis of Purebred Dogs"



As I do further reading, I'll post more links . . . . . .






Joy


----------



## Starsmom

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Aug 23 2009, 02:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821235


> QUOTE (Snowbody @ Aug 23 2009, 10:53 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821150





> QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 23 2009, 10:04 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821128





> QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Aug 22 2009, 11:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821056





> I posted on there and used some great points from this thread. [/B]



It's very Doubtful she will Allow the post to go through, especially if it makes an excellent point or if it paints her in any kind of negative light. 
I am also a member there but on moderation because I had contacted her privately Months ago via her website (not through the group) about her products she sells. I was Seriously Considering investing in some since it seems all I had read was praise over them. She Ignored my questions for over 2 weeks but Magically answered them when a thread popped up on the group & I suggested for others to be careful of what the put in or around their dogs eyes & to ask questions about the products. I Never mentioned her products or her never answering my questions on the group. Needless to say, I did Not invest in her products due to the answers she gave me finally after my post, & I have been on moderation ever since. She called me an "alarmist" for asking questions about "Her" products & for being concerned about my dogs health & what she was suggesting I put in her eyes that she her self said had Not been "tested" or "approved" by anyone, but only that it was a trusted formula & her vet said it was OK. If her Vet says the products are ok why doesn't she put a statement on her site having the vet endorse the products?
Whatever.
I've got property in Florida to give away too.....
Not!
I'm all for the home business & making a living but don't expect me to spray your special formula made of Who Knows What (because she won't tell you what it is & I asked due to allergy reasons) in my dogs eyes...I don't want a Blind Maltese later!
[/B][/QUOTE]
Sounds like the same "vet" :angry: she did the mating for pups with...meaning here that was probably BS as well. Really scary to read about what people will stoop to for the mighty dollar.
[/B][/QUOTE]

LOL she didn't allow it to go through, but I'm going to try a different way. At least she got to read it. I have what I wrote saved in a word document just in case.  
[/B][/QUOTE]


QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Aug 23 2009, 03:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821255


> QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 23 2009, 10:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821148





> QUOTE (Babygirlmom @ Aug 22 2009, 10:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821071





> QUOTE (LuvMyFurbaby @ Aug 21 2009, 02:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820436





> Totally agree Bull Terriers are a combination of two breeds as well as the Maltese that is how they came about. This person is breeding for a friend a tri bred pup and advertising them first on her Maltese site and now on a puppy site. All I see is $$$$$$$ Her advertisement say's breed - Maltese which is very deceptive you need to read further to see that it is a mix and she even has them as AKC registrable. :smilie_tischkante:[/B]



Maybe I mis-read this, but what 2 breeds make up the Maltese?
[/B][/QUOTE]To say AKC registerable it is not in the sense where we registered our fluffs. She is being VERY loose and free with her words. It's just a new program the AKC has cooked up for mixed breed dogs for competeing in stand alone agility, obedience, and rally evernts - not to mention make them more $$$ too. The NKC is just a registrartion for any mutt as well. 

This link will give you the AKC spin: http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=3810

*It's a shame that a breeder would work for decades on developing a successful bloodline and in a moment of weakness and greed put all her hard work, and her reputation in the crapper in one swift act. :bysmilie: 
*
She has some very reputable bloodlines - the other breeders are probably grabbing for the smelling salts by now! :shocked: 


[/B][/QUOTE]


From my knowledge, Tammy has NOT worked on developing a successful bloodline. She has simply purchased other dogs, not bred any pups to show,
and her "claim to fame", are other breeding bitches and sires, from more successful breeders. 

Tammy, you are more than welcome to join this thread, and this forum. I know you are aware of it. So *PLEASE *fill us in. That would be the "cool" thing to do.

Anyway, Tammy, I'm thinking you purchased dogs, from another show breeder. Did not show them, nor had them in your sight. Yet, claim you have Champions.
Hmmm, what champs do you really have, and what have they produced? I'm not sure, and would like to know. 

As I've stated, I'm not sure, so fill us in. You are more than welcome. We would appreciate your side, as you will not allow certain posts on your forum.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Her forum sounds like MO - very rigid and autocratic.

Deb, are you implying her entire website is a fabricaton? It states she breeds...just dunno.


----------



## 3Maltmom

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 23 2009, 08:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821306


> QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Aug 23 2009, 02:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821235





> QUOTE (Snowbody @ Aug 23 2009, 10:53 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821150





> QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 23 2009, 10:04 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821128





> QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Aug 22 2009, 11:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821056





> I posted on there and used some great points from this thread. [/B]



It's very Doubtful she will Allow the post to go through, especially if it makes an excellent point or if it paints her in any kind of negative light. 
I am also a member there but on moderation because I had contacted her privately Months ago via her website (not through the group) about her products she sells. I was Seriously Considering investing in some since it seems all I had read was praise over them. She Ignored my questions for over 2 weeks but Magically answered them when a thread popped up on the group & I suggested for others to be careful of what the put in or around their dogs eyes & to ask questions about the products. I Never mentioned her products or her never answering my questions on the group. Needless to say, I did Not invest in her products due to the answers she gave me finally after my post, & I have been on moderation ever since. She called me an "alarmist" for asking questions about "Her" products & for being concerned about my dogs health & what she was suggesting I put in her eyes that she her self said had Not been "tested" or "approved" by anyone, but only that it was a trusted formula & her vet said it was OK. If her Vet says the products are ok why doesn't she put a statement on her site having the vet endorse the products?
Whatever.
I've got property in Florida to give away too.....
Not!
I'm all for the home business & making a living but don't expect me to spray your special formula made of Who Knows What (because she won't tell you what it is & I asked due to allergy reasons) in my dogs eyes...I don't want a Blind Maltese later!
[/B][/QUOTE]
Sounds like the same "vet" :angry: she did the mating for pups with...meaning here that was probably BS as well. Really scary to read about what people will stoop to for the mighty dollar.
[/B][/QUOTE]

LOL she didn't allow it to go through, but I'm going to try a different way. At least she got to read it. I have what I wrote saved in a word document just in case.  
[/B][/QUOTE]


QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Aug 23 2009, 03:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821255


> QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 23 2009, 10:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821148





> QUOTE (Babygirlmom @ Aug 22 2009, 10:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821071





> QUOTE (LuvMyFurbaby @ Aug 21 2009, 02:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820436





> Totally agree Bull Terriers are a combination of two breeds as well as the Maltese that is how they came about. This person is breeding for a friend a tri bred pup and advertising them first on her Maltese site and now on a puppy site. All I see is $$$$$$$ Her advertisement say's breed - Maltese which is very deceptive you need to read further to see that it is a mix and she even has them as AKC registrable. :smilie_tischkante:[/B]



Maybe I mis-read this, but what 2 breeds make up the Maltese?
[/B][/QUOTE]To say AKC registerable it is not in the sense where we registered our fluffs. She is being VERY loose and free with her words. It's just a new program the AKC has cooked up for mixed breed dogs for competeing in stand alone agility, obedience, and rally evernts - not to mention make them more $$$ too. The NKC is just a registrartion for any mutt as well. 

This link will give you the AKC spin: http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=3810

*It's a shame that a breeder would work for decades on developing a successful bloodline and in a moment of weakness and greed put all her hard work, and her reputation in the crapper in one swift act. :bysmilie: 
*
She has some very reputable bloodlines - the other breeders are probably grabbing for the smelling salts by now! :shocked: 


[/B][/QUOTE]


From my knowledge, Tammy has NOT worked on developing a successful bloodline. She has simply purchased other dogs, not bred any pups to show,
and her "claim to fame", are other breeding bitches and sires, from more successful breeders. 

Tammy, you are more than welcome to join this thread, and this forum. I know you are aware of it. So *PLEASE *fill us in. That would be the "cool" thing to do.

Anyway, Tammy, I'm thinking you purchased dogs, from another show breeder. Did not show them, nor had them in your sight. Yet, claim you have Champions.
Hmmm, what champs do you really have, and what have they produced? I'm not sure, and would like to know. 

As I've stated, I'm not sure, so fill us in. You are more than welcome. We would appreciate your side, as you will not allow certain posts on your forum.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Her forum sounds like MO - very rigid and autocratic.

*Deb, are you implying her entire website is a fabricaton?* It states she breeds...just dunno.  
[/B][/QUOTE]

Oh yes, she definately breeds. I'm just thinking (my opinion) that she claims to have champions, when it was simply a few she purchased from another breeder,
continued to have them shown (by a handler), and not in "her" bloodlines. 

As I've stated, this is just my opinion, and certainly not fact. But honestly, I could purchase a dog from Stacy, and then put up a website, stating I had
Champions. Then post pics of LBB ~ LMAO 

I believe this is within the guidlines of SM. Once again. This is MY opinion. The fact she definately breeds, is public knowledge, on Puppyfinder, along with her
website. Tammy breeds Maltese, and mixed doggies (her own admission, and publicly advertised). 

Once again, Tammy is more than welcome to chime in.


----------



## bellaratamaltese

QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Aug 23 2009, 06:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821316


> QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 23 2009, 08:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821306





> QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Aug 23 2009, 02:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821235





> QUOTE (Snowbody @ Aug 23 2009, 10:53 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821150





> QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 23 2009, 10:04 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821128





> QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Aug 22 2009, 11:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821056





> I posted on there and used some great points from this thread. [/B]



It's very Doubtful she will Allow the post to go through, especially if it makes an excellent point or if it paints her in any kind of negative light. 
I am also a member there but on moderation because I had contacted her privately Months ago via her website (not through the group) about her products she sells. I was Seriously Considering investing in some since it seems all I had read was praise over them. She Ignored my questions for over 2 weeks but Magically answered them when a thread popped up on the group & I suggested for others to be careful of what the put in or around their dogs eyes & to ask questions about the products. I Never mentioned her products or her never answering my questions on the group. Needless to say, I did Not invest in her products due to the answers she gave me finally after my post, & I have been on moderation ever since. She called me an "alarmist" for asking questions about "Her" products & for being concerned about my dogs health & what she was suggesting I put in her eyes that she her self said had Not been "tested" or "approved" by anyone, but only that it was a trusted formula & her vet said it was OK. If her Vet says the products are ok why doesn't she put a statement on her site having the vet endorse the products?
Whatever.
I've got property in Florida to give away too.....
Not!
I'm all for the home business & making a living but don't expect me to spray your special formula made of Who Knows What (because she won't tell you what it is & I asked due to allergy reasons) in my dogs eyes...I don't want a Blind Maltese later!
[/B][/QUOTE]
Sounds like the same "vet" :angry: she did the mating for pups with...meaning here that was probably BS as well. Really scary to read about what people will stoop to for the mighty dollar.
[/B][/QUOTE]

LOL she didn't allow it to go through, but I'm going to try a different way. At least she got to read it. I have what I wrote saved in a word document just in case.  
[/B][/QUOTE]


QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Aug 23 2009, 03:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821255


> QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 23 2009, 10:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821148





> QUOTE (Babygirlmom @ Aug 22 2009, 10:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821071





> QUOTE (LuvMyFurbaby @ Aug 21 2009, 02:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820436





> Totally agree Bull Terriers are a combination of two breeds as well as the Maltese that is how they came about. This person is breeding for a friend a tri bred pup and advertising them first on her Maltese site and now on a puppy site. All I see is $$$$$$$ Her advertisement say's breed - Maltese which is very deceptive you need to read further to see that it is a mix and she even has them as AKC registrable. :smilie_tischkante:[/B]



Maybe I mis-read this, but what 2 breeds make up the Maltese?
[/B][/QUOTE]To say AKC registerable it is not in the sense where we registered our fluffs. She is being VERY loose and free with her words. It's just a new program the AKC has cooked up for mixed breed dogs for competeing in stand alone agility, obedience, and rally evernts - not to mention make them more $$$ too. The NKC is just a registrartion for any mutt as well. 

This link will give you the AKC spin: http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=3810

*It's a shame that a breeder would work for decades on developing a successful bloodline and in a moment of weakness and greed put all her hard work, and her reputation in the crapper in one swift act. :bysmilie: 
*
She has some very reputable bloodlines - the other breeders are probably grabbing for the smelling salts by now! :shocked: 


[/B][/QUOTE]


From my knowledge, Tammy has NOT worked on developing a successful bloodline. She has simply purchased other dogs, not bred any pups to show,
and her "claim to fame", are other breeding bitches and sires, from more successful breeders. 

Tammy, you are more than welcome to join this thread, and this forum. I know you are aware of it. So *PLEASE *fill us in. That would be the "cool" thing to do.

Anyway, Tammy, I'm thinking you purchased dogs, from another show breeder. Did not show them, nor had them in your sight. Yet, claim you have Champions.
Hmmm, what champs do you really have, and what have they produced? I'm not sure, and would like to know. 

As I've stated, I'm not sure, so fill us in. You are more than welcome. We would appreciate your side, as you will not allow certain posts on your forum.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Her forum sounds like MO - very rigid and autocratic.

*Deb, are you implying her entire website is a fabricaton?* It states she breeds...just dunno.  
[/B][/QUOTE]

Oh yes, she definately breeds. I'm just thinking (my opinion) that she claims to have champions, when it was simply a few she purchased from another breeder,
continued to have them shown (by a handler), and not in "her" bloodlines. 

As I've stated, this is just my opinion, and certainly not fact. But honestly, I could purchase a dog from Stacy, and then put up a website, stating I had
Champions. Then post pics of LBB ~ LMAO 

I believe this is within the guidlines of SM. Once again. This is MY opinion. The fact she definately breeds, is public knowledge, on Puppyfinder, along with her
website. Tammy breeds Maltese, and mixed doggies (her own admission, and publicly advertised). 

Once again, Tammy is more than welcome to chime in.
[/B][/QUOTE]

To be fair, I believe that the representation that is on Tammy's site is 'legit'. She has purchased some nice dogs for her breeding program and has successfully bred and championed one male, from what I could gather from her site. it's definitely a completely different issue if someone makes a website and posts pics and claims ownership and titles of dogs that they do not actually own. I'd love to claim LBB though, I just lurve him so :wub: 

Bottom line though - you can be lucky enough to purchase nice champion dogs for your breeding program. This does _not_ make you a good breeder. This only makes you a lucky and fortunate breeder. It's what you do afterwards with those dogs that truly defines who you are as a breeder and sets you apart. It's easy to hide behind a few purchased champions but what you do with their progeny is what defines you as reputable, in my opinion.


----------



## Snow Man's Mom

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Aug 23 2009, 08:57 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821337


> To be fair, I believe that the representation that is on Tammy's site is 'legit'. She has purchased some nice dogs for her breeding program and has successfully bred and championed one male, from what I could gather from her site. it's definitely a completely different issue if someone makes a website and posts pics and claims ownership and titles of dogs that they do not actually own. I'd love to claim LBB though, I just lurve him so :wub:
> 
> Bottom line though - you can be lucky enough to purchase nice champion dogs for your breeding program. This does _not_ make you a good breeder. This only makes you a lucky and fortunate breeder. It's what you do afterwards with those dogs that truly defines who are as a breeder and sets you apart. It's easy to hide behind a few purchased champions but what you do with their progeny is what defines you as reputable, in my opinion.[/B]


 :goodpost: :goodpost:


----------



## Starsmom

LBB is a champion, just not listed on the AKC roster. :wub:


----------



## ilovemymaltese

Everybody on the list was not happy about what she did and no one,* from what I read*, supported her. And Cogins Maltese said on the forum that she didn't support her actions as well. This is what the breeder posted on her public forum to all of us on there., so I assume it's okay to post on here, let me know if it's not and I'll edit my post. 

_
_


> If you want me to post what I said to her, let me know. It was basically good points from what you all said on SM. I was very disappointed in her actions.
> 
> EDIT: Her "apology" to her forum got deleted but pm if you want to know what she said....


----------



## Snow Man's Mom

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Aug 23 2009, 11:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821430


> Everybody on the list was not happy about what she did and no one, from what I read, supported her. And Cogins Maltese said on the forum that she didn't support her actions as well. This is what the breeder posted on her public forum to all of us on there., so I assume it's okay to post on here, let me know if it's not and I'll edit my post.
> 
> "I made a mistake. It was an error in judgement on my part for being a part of the breeding. For some reason I thought offering life long responsibility to the puppies would excuse this idea between my Vet friend and I. I also misunderstood the AKC mixed breed registation program.
> 
> I am sorry anyone on this list had to take any flack.Pease don't assume anyone else had supported this idea. I reget any disappointment I may have caused. I will not allow any further posts on this subject to further upset the other menbers. Please address me personally.
> I am sorry for anyone that was insulted, had their feeling hurt or felt slighted by my actions or the reprocussion thereafter.
> 
> It was not my intention to dishonor the Maltese breed or the breeders behind the lines. I regret my actions, apoligize to everyone for making a mistake. I will abide by my obligations without fail.
> 
> Tammy"
> 
> If you want me to post what I said to her, let me know. It was basically good points from what you all said on SM. I was very disappointed in her actions. [/B]


I am sorry, but I have to disagree with no one supporting her. There were members slamming someone for stating how they felt. I never seen the actual post that this person posted, but there were two separate threads started just for her talking really nasty.


----------



## Starsmom

*ALL* her pups have been removed from the puppyfind website including the little Maltese. I think its going to take a really long time if ever for her to recover from this obvious lapse in judgement. :huh:


----------



## Ladysmom

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 24 2009, 10:28 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821513


> *ALL* her pups have been removed from the puppyfind website including the little Maltese. I think its going to take a really long time if ever for her to recover from this obvious lapse in judgement. :huh:[/B]


I agree. Anyone smart enough to do a little research beforehand will probably get a Google "hit" on this thread. SM threads come up all the time when you Google breeders.


----------



## fernsprite

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 24 2009, 09:28 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821513


> *ALL* her pups have been removed from the puppyfind website including the little Maltese. I think its going to take a really long time if ever for her to recover from this obvious lapse in judgement. :huh:[/B]



IMHO, she's trying to do a fast clean-up. 
Now that the pups are removed, she has also Deleted all talk except for her new "apology" if that's what you can even call it on her group. Personally they seem to be Hollow Words to me. If you want others to think you are Really Sincere with your words when you are posting an apology to the masses, you can at the Very Least run it through a spell check. I guess I was just brought up different, but if I had offended my peers as she has done, I would be posting a Real Sincere Apology to those Peers, my Friends who trusted me & to the Public that may have been considering doing business with you. Heck, I'd write a letter & post it on my website. 
But that's just me!


----------



## bellaratamaltese

QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 24 2009, 08:01 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821523


> QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 24 2009, 09:28 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821513





> *ALL* her pups have been removed from the puppyfind website including the little Maltese. I think its going to take a really long time if ever for her to recover from this obvious lapse in judgement. :huh:[/B]



IMHO, she's trying to do a fast clean-up. 
Now that the pups are removed, she has also Deleted all talk except for her new "apology" if that's what you can even call it on her group. Personally they seem to be Hollow Words to me. If you want others to think you are Really Sincere with your words when you are posting an apology to the masses, you can at the Very Least run it through a spell check. I guess I was just brought up different, but if I had offended my peers as she has done, I would be posting a Real Sincere Apology to those Peers, my Friends who trusted me & to the Public that may have been considering doing business with you. Heck, I'd write a letter & post it on my website. 
But that's just me!
[/B][/QUOTE]


I can see why she is trying to clean it all up, I think that is an understandable reaction. 

I do have to say though, that I appreciate her admitting she was wrong and had made an error in judgement, however hollow it may have sounded. Some people have a huge sense of entitlement and will never admit that they are wrong, so it was nice to see her taking responsibility instead of maintaining the 'I can do whatever I want' mentality. 

I hope she can find nice homes for those puppies now that her means of advertising has been removed.


----------



## fernsprite

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Aug 24 2009, 10:20 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821531


> QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 24 2009, 08:01 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821523





> QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 24 2009, 09:28 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821513





> *ALL* her pups have been removed from the puppyfind website including the little Maltese. I think its going to take a really long time if ever for her to recover from this obvious lapse in judgement. :huh:[/B]



IMHO, she's trying to do a fast clean-up. 
Now that the pups are removed, she has also Deleted all talk except for her new "apology" if that's what you can even call it on her group. Personally they seem to be Hollow Words to me. If you want others to think you are Really Sincere with your words when you are posting an apology to the masses, you can at the Very Least run it through a spell check. I guess I was just brought up different, but if I had offended my peers as she has done, I would be posting a Real Sincere Apology to those Peers, my Friends who trusted me & to the Public that may have been considering doing business with you. Heck, I'd write a letter & post it on my website. 
But that's just me!
[/B][/QUOTE]


I can see why she is trying to clean it all up, I think that is an understandable reaction. 

I do have to say though, that I appreciate her admitting she was wrong and had made an error in judgement, however hollow it may have sounded. Some people have a huge sense of entitlement and will never admit that they are wrong, so it was nice to see her taking responsibility instead of maintaining the 'I can do whatever I want' mentality. 

I hope she can find nice homes for those puppies now that her means of advertising has been removed.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I can see why she's doing it also.
It seems to me that if she still wanted to be looked upon as any sort of "reputable breeder" after she did all of this, she Had to try & do something to fix things. It's just common sense! 

I also hope she can find nice homes for the puppies. She took the puppies off her personal website & since the puppyfinder site had the puppies listed using Her kennel name, she had to be the one to take them off there too. Perhaps her "Vet Friend" can help her place them?! 
It's a nice gesture, her apology that is, good luck to her.
:smcry:


----------



## Furbaby's Mommie

Since I'm not a breeder and do not know this woman I have not commented, however it is a distressing thing to know a show breeder would breed her stud dog to a mixed breed. We can't judge others by one person's action, but it does remind us we don't ever know the whole story. B)


----------



## Starsmom

QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 24 2009, 08:42 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821559


> QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Aug 24 2009, 10:20 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821531





> QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 24 2009, 08:01 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821523





> QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 24 2009, 09:28 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821513





> *ALL* her pups have been removed from the puppyfind website including the little Maltese. I think its going to take a really long time if ever for her to recover from this obvious lapse in judgement. :huh:[/B]



IMHO, she's trying to do a fast clean-up. 
Now that the pups are removed, she has also Deleted all talk except for her new "apology" if that's what you can even call it on her group. Personally they seem to be Hollow Words to me. If you want others to think you are Really Sincere with your words when you are posting an apology to the masses, you can at the Very Least run it through a spell check. I guess I was just brought up different, but if I had offended my peers as she has done, I would be posting a Real Sincere Apology to those Peers, my Friends who trusted me & to the Public that may have been considering doing business with you. Heck, I'd write a letter & post it on my website. 
But that's just me!
[/B][/QUOTE]


I can see why she is trying to clean it all up, I think that is an understandable reaction. 

I do have to say though, that I appreciate her admitting she was wrong and had made an error in judgement, however hollow it may have sounded. Some people have a huge sense of entitlement and will never admit that they are wrong, so it was nice to see her taking responsibility instead of maintaining the 'I can do whatever I want' mentality. 

I hope she can find nice homes for those puppies now that her means of advertising has been removed.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I can see why she's doing it also.
It seems to me that if she still wanted to be looked upon as any sort of "reputable breeder" after she did all of this, she Had to try & do something to fix things. It's just common sense! 

I also hope she can find nice homes for the puppies. She took the puppies off her personal website & since the puppyfinder site had the puppies listed using Her kennel name, she had to be the one to take them off there too. Perhaps her "Vet Friend" can help her place them?! 
It's a nice gesture, her apology that is, good luck to her.
:smcry: 
[/B][/QUOTE]

It's called damage control. I agree, one must give her credit for admitting her wrong, now matter how she worded her apology, it was an apology. IMO, not so humble, her VET friend and she would have those pups already altered BEFORE they are placed in their forever homes, and they would br GIVEN AWAY to good homes - that would be a conscious apology. :yes:


----------



## ilovemymaltese

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 24 2009, 12:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821583


> QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 24 2009, 08:42 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821559





> QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Aug 24 2009, 10:20 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821531





> QUOTE (fernsprite @ Aug 24 2009, 08:01 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821523





> QUOTE (Starsmom @ Aug 24 2009, 09:28 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=821513





> *ALL* her pups have been removed from the puppyfind website including the little Maltese. I think its going to take a really long time if ever for her to recover from this obvious lapse in judgement. :huh:[/B]



IMHO, she's trying to do a fast clean-up. 
Now that the pups are removed, she has also Deleted all talk except for her new "apology" if that's what you can even call it on her group. Personally they seem to be Hollow Words to me. If you want others to think you are Really Sincere with your words when you are posting an apology to the masses, you can at the Very Least run it through a spell check. I guess I was just brought up different, but if I had offended my peers as she has done, I would be posting a Real Sincere Apology to those Peers, my Friends who trusted me & to the Public that may have been considering doing business with you. Heck, I'd write a letter & post it on my website. 
But that's just me!
[/B][/QUOTE]


I can see why she is trying to clean it all up, I think that is an understandable reaction. 

I do have to say though, that I appreciate her admitting she was wrong and had made an error in judgement, however hollow it may have sounded. Some people have a huge sense of entitlement and will never admit that they are wrong, so it was nice to see her taking responsibility instead of maintaining the 'I can do whatever I want' mentality. 

I hope she can find nice homes for those puppies now that her means of advertising has been removed.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I can see why she's doing it also.
It seems to me that if she still wanted to be looked upon as any sort of "reputable breeder" after she did all of this, she Had to try & do something to fix things. It's just common sense! 

I also hope she can find nice homes for the puppies. She took the puppies off her personal website & since the puppyfinder site had the puppies listed using Her kennel name, she had to be the one to take them off there too. Perhaps her "Vet Friend" can help her place them?! 
It's a nice gesture, her apology that is, good luck to her.
:smcry: 
[/B][/QUOTE]

It's called damage control. I agree, one must give her credit for admitting her wrong, now matter how she worded her apology, it was an apology. IMO, not so humble, her VET friend and she would have those pups already altered BEFORE they are placed in their forever homes, and they would br GIVEN AWAY to good homes - that would be a conscious apology. :yes:
[/B][/QUOTE]

I like that idea!


----------



## Tina

QUOTE (princessre @ Aug 22 2009, 09:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820792


> It's really sad that a show breeder would resort to this...But I just have to say that we have many intelligent friends who have bought mix-breed dogs in the last couple years, and it seems to be a trend that is growing and growing.
> 
> I'm not sure it's obvious to the public why buying mixed-breed, designer dogs for these prices is evil. If you had to educate the public in very simple layman terms why it is so bad to do so, what would you say? (I've thought about saying something to our friends, but never did because I never could find a way in my mind to articulate it in a way that I thought would be convincing to them) I've had one friend who told me it's the same as not allowing people of different races to marry![/B]


This woman is *not* a show breeder. She was attempting to be a show breeder by finding other show breeder's willing to sell her a dog with a good pedigree. Then she finds a handler who really needs money and gets them to show the dog for her. This does not make you a "show breeder". She has never stepped foot in a show ring. 

Tina


----------



## Tina

[No message]


----------



## mi_ku_5

QUOTE (Tina @ Aug 25 2009, 09:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=822236


> QUOTE (princessre @ Aug 22 2009, 09:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820792





> It's really sad that a show breeder would resort to this...But I just have to say that we have many intelligent friends who have bought mix-breed dogs in the last couple years, and it seems to be a trend that is growing and growing.
> 
> I'm not sure it's obvious to the public why buying mixed-breed, designer dogs for these prices is evil. If you had to educate the public in very simple layman terms why it is so bad to do so, what would you say? (I've thought about saying something to our friends, but never did because I never could find a way in my mind to articulate it in a way that I thought would be convincing to them) I've had one friend who told me it's the same as not allowing people of different races to marry![/B]


This woman is *not* a show breeder. She was attempting to be a show breeder by finding other show breeder's willing to sell her a dog with a good pedigree. Then she finds a handler who really needs money and gets them to show the dog for her. This does not make you a "show breeder". She has never stepped foot in a show ring. 

Tina
[/B][/QUOTE]
:aktion033:


----------



## CloudClan

Tina said:


> QUOTE (princessre @ Aug 22 2009, 09:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820792
> This woman is *not* a show breeder. She was attempting to be a show breeder by finding other show breeder's willing to sell her a dog with a good pedigree. Then she finds a handler who really needs money and gets them to show the dog for her. This does not make you a "show breeder". She has never stepped foot in a show ring.
> 
> Tina


This is an excellent quote Tina. I know that I am dredging up an old thread, but this came up again today and I think it is so important that folks learn to recognize the difference between people who ARE show breeders and those that pretend to be. There are many people out there that pretend to be.


----------



## Snowball Pie's Mommi

Tina said:


> QUOTE (princessre @ Aug 22 2009, 09:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820792
> This woman is *not* a show breeder. She was attempting to be a show breeder by finding other show breeder's willing to sell her a dog with a good pedigree. Then she finds a handler who really needs money and gets them to show the dog for her. This does not make you a "show breeder". She has never stepped foot in a show ring.
> 
> Tina





CloudClan said:


> This is an excellent quote Tina. I know that I am dredging up an old thread, but this came up again today and I think it is so important that folks learn to recognize the difference between people who ARE show breeders and those that pretend to be. There are many people out there that pretend to be.


I usually don't respond to threads pertaining to breeder issues. I'm always afraid I will say the wrong thing or that I will be misunderstood. However, after reading this whole thread last night ... and, after checking out the Silver Brook Maltese and Congins Maltese websites ... I feel compelled to do so now.

After recently watching the movie *The Help* ... a quote from the movie stayed with me. _"Courage sometimes skips a generation"_ You might wonder what that has to do in relation to my post here. Hopefully, you will see where I am going with this in the end.

This is what I question on the Silver Brook Maltese Home Page ...

Under the third picture down, a paragraph reads ...

_"We breed for conformation of the AKC Breed Standard, health and beautiful baby doll faces. We offer small compact puppies weighing 3 to 6 pounds, and sometimes smaller. Often these very small Maltese puppies are referred to as "Teacup Maltese, Pocket Maltese or Micro Maltese. We prefer not to use those terms. These puppies are bred from small lines and not runts. Our tinest Maltese puppies go to special homes that can provide the very best care for the smallest Maltese puppies." _

Also, if one scrolls down to the very bottom of the *About Silver Brook Page* page ... there are links, one of which is for *Maltese Teacups PA* When I click on that link it brings me right back to Silver Brook Maltese. 

My first question is how can a breeder say that they breed to the conformation of the AKC breed standard ... and, yet, breed so many tiny Maltese??? 

Also, I note Silver Brook says they _"prefer"_ not to use the terms Teacup Maltese, Pocket Maltese or Micro Maltese. Why couldn't they just say it is not right, and that there is no such thing as Teacup Maltese, etc? 

I also visited the Congin Maltese website since it is also mentioned in this thread. They also have a website for Pomeranians. Interesting. 

So, my other question is ... why don't more legitimate breeders speak up if they know someone is NOT a legitmate breeder? Yes, I understand that we have to be careful and not ruin a legitmate breeders reputation. And, I realize this is a sensitive subject. But, I feel that if breeders stay silent when something is not right ... then, how do they expect potential Maltese owners to trust anyone?? If there is really such a strong code of silence amongst breeders, does that mean that we can't get honest answers when we think something is not kosher? 

Please don't misunderstand me. Yes, I understand that many breeders have a close knit community. And, I understand why. It happens in all professions.

I really respect the breeders on SM who speak up and give their honest feedback when a thread like this comes up. YOU are the breeders that I trust and respect. I think by speaking up, when you see something that doesn't seem right ... shows that you really care about our beloved Maltese. And, I believe you are the greatest protectors and Earth Angels for our beloved Maltese. 

Honestly, I've spoken to several SM members who are afraid to participate and shy away from asking questions in regard to breeder ethics. That bothers me ... even more so lately. I have been one of them. You know, the ... courage sometimes skips a generation crowd. But, in my heart, I know if I see a wrong ... I should, if possible, be a part of trying to help make it right. Sometimes that is a hard thing to do in our society. 

Carina, apparently something bothered you enough to dredge (your words) up an old thread to address your feelings. I'm sorry more members didn't respond to your post. But, I am here ... and, I do have a question. I thought it was okay for breeders to hire handlers for their dogs. Am I wrong? As a matter of fact, until recently, I had been under the impression that is what the AKC prefers ... professional handlers. 

But, then, I see you, Stacy, Marina, and Leslie show your Maltese so beautifully and professionally. You ARE the professional handlers in my eyes. Thank you, ladies, for all you do[/U]


----------



## Matilda's mommy

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I usually don't respond to threads pertaining to breeder issues. I'm always afraid I will say the wrong thing or that I will be misunderstood. However, after reading this whole thread last night ... and, after checking out the Silver Brook Maltese and Congins Maltese websites ... I feel compelled to do so now.
> 
> After recently watching the movie *The Help* ... a quote from the movie stayed with me. _"Courage sometimes skips a generation"_ You might wonder what that has to do in relation to my post here. Hopefully, you will see where I am going with this in the end.
> 
> This is what I question on the Silver Brook Maltese Home Page ...
> 
> Under the third picture down, a paragraph reads ...
> 
> _"We breed for conformation of the AKC Breed Standard, health and beautiful baby doll faces. We offer small compact puppies weighing 3 to 6 pounds, and sometimes smaller. Often these very small Maltese puppies are referred to as "Teacup Maltese, Pocket Maltese or Micro Maltese. We prefer not to use those terms. These puppies are bred from small lines and not runts. Our tinest Maltese puppies go to special homes that can provide the very best care for the smallest Maltese puppies." _
> 
> Also, if one scrolls down to the very bottom of the *About Silver Brook Page* page ... there are links, one of which is for *Maltese Teacups PA* When I click on that link it brings me right back to Silver Brook Maltese.
> 
> My first question is how can a breeder say that they breed to the conformation of the AKC breed standard ... and, yet, breed so many tiny Maltese???
> 
> Also, I note Silver Brook says they _"prefer"_ not to use the terms Teacup Maltese, Pocket Maltese or Micro Maltese. Why couldn't they just say it is not right, and that there is no such thing as Teacup Maltese, etc?
> 
> I also visited the Congin Maltese website since it is also mentioned in this thread. They also have a website for Pomeranians. Interesting.
> 
> So, my other question is ... why don't more legitimate breeders speak up if they know someone is NOT a legitmate breeder? Yes, I understand that we have to be careful and not ruin a legitmate breeders reputation. And, I realize this is a sensitive subject. But, I feel that if breeders stay silent when something is not right ... then, how do they expect potential Maltese owners to trust anyone?? If there is really such a strong code of silence amongst breeders, does that mean that we can't get honest answers when we think something is not kosher?
> 
> Please don't misunderstand me. Yes, I understand that many breeders have a close knit community. And, I understand why. It happens in all professions.
> 
> I really respect the breeders on SM who speak up and give their honest feedback when a thread like this comes up. YOU are the breeders that I trust and respect. I think by speaking up, when you see something that doesn't seem right ... shows that you really care about our beloved Maltese. And, I believe you are the greatest protectors and Earth Angels for our beloved Maltese.
> 
> Honestly, I've spoken to several SM members who are afraid to participate and shy away from asking questions in regard to breeder ethics. That bothers me ... even more so lately. I have been one of them. You know, the ... courage sometimes skips a generation crowd. But, in my heart, I know if I see a wrong ... I should, if possible, be a part of trying to help make it right. Sometimes that is a hard thing to do in our society.
> 
> Carina, apparently something bothered you enough to dredge (your words) up an old thread to address your feelings. I'm sorry more members didn't respond to your post. But, I am here ... and, I do have a question. I thought it was okay for breeders to hire handlers for their dogs. Am I wrong? As a matter of fact, until recently, I had been under the impression that is what the AKC prefers ... professional handlers.
> 
> But, then, I see you, Stacy, Marina, and Leslie show your Maltese so beautifully and professionally. You ARE the professional handlers in my eyes. Thank you, ladies, for all you do[/U]


 

:goodpost::goodpost: :aktion033:


----------



## Lacie's Mom

I don't think that whether or not you handle your own dog or hire a professional handler has ANYTHING to do with whether or not you are a true Show Breeder. 

When I was breeding my Lhasas (and I was a top Lhasa breeder with #1 dogs for many years), I HATED having to go into the ring and show a dog. It seemed like everyone was walking when I was on my knees brushing and everyone else was brushing when I was finally ready to walk.:HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley:Yes -- I did start in the show ring by showing my own dogs, but I soon learned that wasn't where my talents were, so I did hire professional handlers. And I was very, very, very picky in who I hired because they were in charge of taking care of my fluffs when they were at the shows. And when I had a Special, the dog lived with the handler -- sometimes for 3-4 years.

Another reason that Handlers are often used is because, like me, many dog owners work during the week. I could go to local dog shows or those close enough to drive too, but in today's world, the top dogs are being shown 5 out 7 days a week. Obviously I wasn't able to do that and remain in my job.

So if being a show breeder has nothing to do with whether or not you show your dogs or a Handler shows you dogs, what does it have to do with?

To me it means studying pedigrees, learning structure, movement, type, breed standard, etc. It means being able to put 2 dogs together and "knowing" from their pedigrees what you will probably get in the litter -- which faults you will hope to correct and which good points you will be able to keep and enhance. Does everything you hope for always happen? Of course, not, but if you truly do your homework and study, study, study, you'll come pretty close to being able to breed to your ideal of the standard. A breeder studies and studies genetics to learn where faults, genetic diseases, etc. are coming from in a pedigree -- i.e., which dog(s) is responsible for the problem or if doubling up on a specific gene, what problems will you encounter.

Another part of being a Show Breeder is, of course, having your dogs shown in the ring and win. You are also responsible for giving the puppies a good start -- socializing them, training them, getting them ready for the show ring or for their forever pet home. You are responsible for making sure that they are healthy and vaccinated at the appropriate time. You are responsible for protecting the puppies and making sure that they go to the right forever home at the right time (not too early).

But remember -- a true Show Breeder's interest is in bettering the breed. Each litter is given a lot of thought prior to the actual "breeding" taking place. Show Breeder's are looking for that "as close to perfect" dog as possible -- they breed to their ideal vision of the breed standard and are looking for dogs that will be shown and win and then be bred to again better the breed. Show Breeders don't show puppies that they feel aren't worthy of being shown -- and those are the puppies that are sold as pets to forever homes. But -- Show Breeders don't breed to get pets to sell -- their goal is to better the breed and to produce Show Dogs. 

And, imho, it does not matter if the breeder shows their dogs or if they hire a Handler to show their dogs.


----------



## Snowball Pie's Mommi

Lacie's Mom said:


> I don't think that whether or not you handle your own dog or hire a professional handler has ANYTHING to do with whether or not you are a true Show Breeder.
> 
> When I was breeding my Lhasas (and I was a top Lhasa breeder with #1 dogs for many years), I HATED having to go into the ring and show a dog. It seemed like everyone was walking when I was on my knees brushing and everyone else was brushing when I was finally ready to walk.:HistericalSmiley::HistericalSmiley:Yes -- I did start in the show ring by showing my own dogs, but I soon learned that wasn't where my talents were, so I did hire professional handlers. And I was very, very, very picky in who I hired because they were in charge of taking care of my fluffs when they were at the shows. And when I had a Special, the dog lived with the handler -- sometimes for 3-4 years.
> 
> Another reason that Handlers are often used is because, like me, many dog owners work during the week. I could go to local dog shows or those close enough to drive too, but in today's world, the top dogs are being shown 5 out 7 days a week. Obviously I wasn't able to do that and remain in my job.
> 
> So if being a show breeder has nothing to do with whether or not you show your dogs or a Handler shows you dogs, what does it have to do with?
> 
> To me it means studying pedigrees, learning structure, movement, type, breed standard, etc. It means being able to put 2 dogs together and "knowing" from their pedigrees what you will probably get in the litter -- which faults you will hope to correct and which good points you will be able to keep and enhance. Does everything you hope for always happen? Of course, not, but if you truly do your homework and study, study, study, you'll come pretty close to being able to breed to your ideal of the standard. A breeder studies and studies genetics to learn where faults, genetic diseases, etc. are coming from in a pedigree -- i.e., which dog(s) is responsible for the problem or if doubling up on a specific gene, what problems will you encounter.
> 
> Another part of being a Show Breeder is, of course, having your dogs shown in the ring and win. You are also responsible for giving the puppies a good start -- socializing them, training them, getting them ready for the show ring or for their forever pet home. You are responsible for making sure that they are healthy and vaccinated at the appropriate time. You are responsible for protecting the puppies and making sure that they go to the right forever home at the right time (not too early).
> 
> But remember -- a true Show Breeder's interest is in bettering the breed. Each litter is given a lot of thought prior to the actual "breeding" taking place. Show Breeder's are looking for that "as close to perfect" dog as possible -- they breed to their ideal vision of the breed standard and are looking for dogs that will be shown and win and then be bred to again better the breed. Show Breeders don't show puppies that they feel aren't worthy of being shown -- and those are the puppies that are sold as pets to forever homes. But -- Show Breeders don't breed to get pets to sell -- their goal is to better the breed and to produce Show Dogs.
> 
> And, imho, it does not matter if the breeder shows their dogs or if they hire a Handler to show their dogs.


Thank you, Lynn, for taking time to help me understand more about your own Show Breeder and Handler experiences. And, also for sharing in-depth ... the huge responsibilities that a reputable and great breeder encounters to better the breed. An enormous amount of work, for sure.


----------



## Lacie's Mom

Another thing that is seldom mentioned here is in being a part of the Dog Show World -- you also have to work to hold Dog Shows. A Show Breeder is normally not only a member of his/her National Breed Club -- in our case, AMA, but is also usually an active member of a local Dog Show Club (all breed) in their city -- sometimes you are active in more than 1 local Dog Club.

The reason for these Clubs are to put on the Dog Shows in your area. There are also Matches -- these are like practice Shows. In the case of Matches (usually at least 2 times a year), members of the club will set up the rings, act as breed judges (to get practice), bring refreshments, collect the entry fees and do all types of things in order to hold the Match. Matches are great places to start a young (4 month or older) puppy. You don't receive points at Matches but you are able to teach your puppies or even older dogs ring etiquette and to practice, practice, practice showing. Matches get your dogs use to all the noises and commotion that goes on at a real live Show.

Most breeders also take their puppies (4 months or older) to handling classes. These are not obeidence type classes but again are practice at handling for real live Shows. Your puppy again gets used to strangers touching them to examine them in the ring, practice being around other dogs of all shapes and sizes, practice interacting with other people, etc. etc.

Also, most Show Breeders that are members of a local Dog Club work within the club. They go to monthly meetings, hold office and work on putting on the actual Dog Shows (2 per year). Some act as Show Chairman at least once or twice during their showing career. I was Show Chairman several times but also was Chief Ring Steward many more times. That meant that I recruited club members to assist the judges in each ring by acting as Ring Steward for that day. That is a hard job in some cases.

Most Dog Clubs do not allow their members to show their own dogs (or have Handlers show their dogs) at their own shows. The main reason is that active members in the Club have a say in who the judging panel will be. 

So many things go into putting on a Dog Show. You have to secure the location for the show, get the proper permits, hire the Show Superintendent, decide what the Show Superintendent will provide (ring set up, only the catalogues and ribbons, or anything in between). The Club is responsible for providing catering for the judges, arranging to pay the judges for their expenses, arrange hotel accommodation for the judges, correspond with the AKC to get approval for your show date, location, etc. Arrange to have an AKC representative at the Show, choose the ribbons and prizes to be given to the winners, hire a local Vet to have on duty, arrange for parking and parking attendants (usually Club members), arrange for police, paramedics, etc. -- I could go on and on, but as you can see, there is a lot of work to putting on a Dog Show. The larger the Show, the more work involved.

Most Show Breeders are a big part of being good Club members for their local shows -- so that is another thing that goes hand-in-hand with being a show breeder.

I know a lot of our SM members have not experienced a Dog Show, many have gone as spectators, some to show their own dogs -- but actually working in a Club and helping put on Shows and Matches is something I don't ever see mentioned here.

Just thought I would help bring up that part of the Show World.


----------



## allheart

Lacie's Mom said:


> Another thing that is seldom mentioned here is in being a part of the Dog Show World -- you also have to work to hold Dog Shows. A Show Breeder is normally not only a member of his/her National Breed Club -- in our case, AMA, but is also usually an active member of a local Dog Show Club (all breed) in their city -- sometimes you are active in more than 1 local Dog Club.
> 
> The reason for these Clubs are to put on the Dog Shows in your area. There are also Matches -- these are like practice Shows. In the case of Matches (usually at least 2 times a year), members of the club will set up the rings, act as breed judges (to get practice), bring refreshments, collect the entry fees and do all types of things in order to hold the Match. Matches are great places to start a young (4 month or older) puppy. You don't receive points at Matches but you are able to teach your puppies or even older dogs ring etiquette and to practice, practice, practice showing. Matches get your dogs use to all the noises and commotion that goes on at a real live Show.
> 
> Most breeders also take their puppies (4 months or older) to handling classes. These are not obeidence type classes but again are practice at handling for real live Shows. Your puppy again gets used to strangers touching them to examine them in the ring, practice being around other dogs of all shapes and sizes, practice interacting with other people, etc. etc.
> 
> Also, most Show Breeders that are members of a local Dog Club work within the club. They go to monthly meetings, hold office and work on putting on the actual Dog Shows (2 per year). Some act as Show Chairman at least once or twice during their showing career. I was Show Chairman several times but also was Chief Ring Steward many more times. That meant that I recruited club members to assist the judges in each ring by acting as Ring Steward for that day. That is a hard job in some cases.
> 
> Most Dog Clubs do not allow their members to show their own dogs (or have Handlers show their dogs) at their own shows. The main reason is that active members in the Club have a say in who the judging panel will be.
> 
> So many things go into putting on a Dog Show. You have to secure the location for the show, get the proper permits, hire the Show Superintendent, decide what the Show Superintendent will provide (ring set up, only the catalogues and ribbons, or anything in between). The Club is responsible for providing catering for the judges, arranging to pay the judges for their expenses, arrange hotel accommodation for the judges, correspond with the AKC to get approval for your show date, location, etc. Arrange to have an AKC representative at the Show, choose the ribbons and prizes to be given to the winners, hire a local Vet to have on duty, arrange for parking and parking attendants (usually Club members), arrange for police, paramedics, etc. -- I could go on and on, but as you can see, there is a lot of work to putting on a Dog Show. The larger the Show, the more work involved.
> 
> Most Show Breeders are a big part of being good Club members for their local shows -- so that is another thing that goes hand-in-hand with being a show breeder.
> 
> I know a lot of our SM members have not experienced a Dog Show, many have gone as spectators, some to show their own dogs -- but actually working in a Club and helping put on Shows and Matches is something I don't ever see mentioned here.
> 
> Just thought I would help bring up that part of the Show World.


Well holy moly Lynn, thanks for the view into that part of the Show World. I'm just exhausted reading it.

I've beem learning bits and pieces (as much as my mind can understand :blink becuase there is alot of terminalogy that I never heard of. But I tell you, in addition to all of what you shared, showing is sooooo expensive, 
and breeding, soooooo much goes into the actual breeding, way way way more than two dogs having a "date" :thumbsup:. Like you said, there is so much involved in it all, most of us, I know myself, have and had no idea. That's why I say being a reputable breeder is a "calling" takes very special folks, I am so glad I did not get that call . So I am grateful for all the hard work, dedication all of it, as I get to enjoy it all, for what I was called and blessed to me, a fur-baby Mommy :wub:

(I didn't read this whole thread so I hope it fits in to the topic eeeek :blush


----------



## LuvMyBoys

Wow, thanks Lynn for this glimpse into the show world. I am totally fascinated with all of this, from the grooming to breeding, to whelping, to showing to...well you get the idea. I don't think I am cut out for doing it, but I love reading and learning all about it. Thanks to you and all the rest of you show dog people that share all of this with us. Please, tell us more!

Learn something new everyday, don't we. Just don't know what you don't know!


----------



## MalteseJane

> Well holy moly Lynn, thanks for the view into that part of the Show World. I'm just exhausted reading it.


Me too. I never liked dog shows, I kind of feel sorry for the dogs. Reading all this has certainly not changed my mind. I still cannot understand how you can give a dog to a handler for x amount of time. Breeders do it for "THE LOVE OF THE BREED", but what about "LOVE OF THE DOG". That special dog that is used for show is nothing else than a business venture. If he wins he can bring in some money. I was starting to feel better about the shows watching Stacy and Carina but that handler thing has a hard time going down my throat.


----------



## Lacie's Mom

Janine -- I do disagree with you. First -- there isn't money to be made from Showing Dogs. I've spent much more over the years in Showing Dogs than I will get back from the puppies that were sold as pets.

Some people do choose to handler their own dogs and only show at nearby shows until the dog has finished his/her Championship.

Some people use local handlers that only show the dogs at nearby shows. Sometimes the owner/breeder takes the dog to the show and the handler only walks the dog in the ring. Sometimes the owner allows the dog to go with the handler for the weekend. In the first instance, the owner/breeder is there with the dog -- in the 2nd instance, the owner may or may not be able to attend that particular show.

Only a dog that is being shown as a top winning Special (Champion) normally lives with his handler. 

As an example, Gambler, my first big winning special, lived with me during the week and then sent to weekend shows with his handler. I would go to the shows if they were close and travel to some of the shows that were further away. Gambler had known his handler since he was 4 months old. He would usually spend at least 1 day a week (while I was at work) at his handler's house getting groomed and of course he would spend the weekend with his handler while at the show. This particular dog "LIVED" to be in the show ring. He would rather be "on stage" than any other activity in the world. He loved being pampered and fond over and he loved me and my DH and he loved his handler.

Later my Handler moved to Texas and asked if I would let him take Gambler with him for his show career. I thought about it long and hard, but knew that Gambler would be happy and well taken care of. I would fly in to Texas to see him and my Handler would stay at my house when he was in Phoenix for shows. I was often able to fly in to see the Show (no matter where it was being held). Gambler always knew where "home" was and he always knew that I loved him. 

When Gambler retired from the ring, he came back to live with me. He was 6 at the time and lived to be 17. I will say that he missed showing terribly, and over the years, when I would go to a dog show with other dogs of mine, I would often take him. He would light up and turn on. He just loved the lime light so very much. And he loved to see his Handler.

Very few dogs are meant for this type of lifestyle. Most are happy being pets, some enjoy showing, but also like being pets -- but there are a handful of very special fluffs (kind of like our actor stars) that enjoy the lifestyle that they live as a very, very Special Show Dog.

This forum is specifically dedicated to the "pet owner". Please do not try to judge breeders and those that show their dogs by the same standards. I have been both -- a breeder, a person that shows their dogs and a pet owner (only). Until you've lived each of these lives, please do not try to judge.


----------



## Ladysmom

Lacie's Mom said:


> Janine -- I do disagree with you. First -- there isn't money to be made from Showing Dogs. I've spent much more over the years in Showing Dogs than I will get back from the puppies that were sold as pets.
> 
> Some people do choose to handler their own dogs and only show at nearby shows until the dog has finished his/her Championship.
> 
> Some people use local handlers that only show the dogs at nearby shows. Sometimes the owner/breeder takes the dog to the show and the handler only walks the dog in the ring. Sometimes the owner allows the dog to go with the handler for the weekend. In the first instance, the owner/breeder is there with the dog -- in the 2nd instance, the owner may or may not be able to attend that particular show.
> 
> Only a dog that is being shown as a top winning Special (Champion) normally lives with his handler.
> 
> As an example, Gambler, my first big winning special, lived with me during the week and then sent to weekend shows with his handler. I would go to the shows if they were close and travel to some of the shows that were further away. Gambler had known his handler since he was 4 months old. He would usually spend at least 1 day a week (while I was at work) at his handler's house getting groomed and of course he would spend the weekend with his handler while at the show. This particular dog "LIVED" to be in the show ring. He would rather be "on stage" than any other activity in the world. He loved being pampered and fond over and he loved me and my DH and he loved his handler.
> 
> Later my Handler moved to Texas and asked if I would let him take Gambler with him for his show career. I thought about it long and hard, but knew that Gambler would be happy and well taken care of. I would fly in to Texas to see him and my Handler would stay at my house when he was in Phoenix for shows. I was often able to fly in to see the Show (no matter where it was being held). Gambler always knew where "home" was and he always knew that I loved him.
> 
> When Gambler retired from the ring, he came back to live with me. He was 6 at the time and lived to be 17. I will say that he missed showing terribly, and over the years, when I would go to a dog show with other dogs of mine, I would often take him. He would light up and turn on. He just loved the lime light so very much. And he loved to see his Handler.
> 
> Very few dogs are meant for this type of lifestyle. Most are happy being pets, some enjoy showing, but also like being pets -- but there are a handful of very special fluffs (kind of like our actor stars) that enjoy the lifestyle that they live as a very, very Special Show Dog.
> 
> This forum is specifically dedicated to the "pet owner". Please do not try to judge breeders and those that show their dogs by the same standards. I have been both -- a breeder, a person that shows their dogs and a pet owner (only). Until you've lived each of these lives, please do not try to judge.


Excellent post, Lynn! :aktion033::aktion033:


----------



## pammy4501

Interesting, but this is a thread that started in 2009? What resurrected it?


----------



## MalteseJane

Lynn I don't try to judge. I just feel sorry for the dogs and have a hard time understanding how a breeder can give the dog to a handler for a certain amount of time. But I also understand your point of view and the way you explain it makes me feel better about it.


----------



## Snowball Pie's Mommi

pammy4501 said:


> Interesting, but this is a thread that started in 2009? What resurrected it?


Carina. Post #106. And, I am glad she did. It's helped me see some things in a different light. 

I followed up with a post. And, then other members added their thoughts. Even though we all might not agree on everything ... that is okay. I like thinking about what everyone contributes. 

I've always believed that just because an old thread might come up again ... that it is not always such a bad thing. Yes, we have had trouble makers in the past ... and, we probably will again at some point. That's reality. But, I think the the good guys here outweigh the bad guys a thousand times over..:chili::chili::thumbsup:


----------



## CloudClan

Yes, I Resurrected the thread because there were some recent posts about the breeder this post refers to, and I felt the history would be good to share in that thread, but I also found a quote by Tina in this old thread I thought worthy of sharing again. 

However, I think some of this very interesting discussion should be brought to a new thread. This one is already 12 pages long (on my settings) and some of the valuable discussion about show breeders will get lost in here.


----------



## SammieMom

Carina, Lynn,
I can't change my first uninformed experience finding a puppy. But I am lucky enough to have found SM, to now have the facts to make an informed decision should I seek a second puppy. We will never keep pace with the non rep breeders and mills, so thank goodness for forums like this that can educate us, even if it's one person like me. 

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.


----------



## Lacie's Mom

Sammie -- I think that is what this forum is all about -- learning from each other. Mostly, of course, about our precious fluffs -- that's what originally brought us all together -- but we also learn about other things too. It's interesting how many times we ask each other for opinions from topics such as vaccum cleaners, sewing machines, makeup, decor, books, movies etc. to food products for our fluffs, health issues, grooming tools and I could go on and on.

I love everyone here and the advice I get is excellent and the things I learn daily are priceless.


----------



## SammieMom

Lacie's Mom said:


> Sammie -- I think that is what this forum is all about -- learning from each other. Mostly, of course, about our precious fluffs -- that's what originally brought us all together -- but we also learn about other things too. It's interesting how many times we ask each other for opinions from topics such as vaccum cleaners, sewing machines, makeup, decor, books, movies etc. to food products for our fluffs, health issues, grooming tools and I could go on and on.
> 
> I love everyone here and the advice I get is excellent and the things I learn daily are priceless.


Thanks Lynn
That's all I try to do, take it in and pass it on. I realize there are no guarantees even in the best planning. But why not stack the deck in in your favor as much as possible for the next fifteen years.


----------



## 4everjack

*Hate to dig this up*

I feel really bad!!! 




k/c mom said:


> QUOTE (theboyz @ Aug 22 2009, 01:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820854
> 
> I agree, but so many people are clueless why what she did is wrong and once this blows over, the average/typical puppy-buying person won't even know about it ...


----------



## Paisley_The_Maltese

elly said:


> QUOTE (Cosy @ Aug 21 2009, 10:29 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=820284
> 
> 
> Shame on that show breeder :angry:


:amen:


----------



## my4jewels

Well, I bought my puppy over the internet because I didn't know any better. We love her very much, and we do believe that she was meant to be ours. She is a little spitfire with a lot of spirit. Even though she has a definite stubborn streak, she is very sweet and outgoing, and she has a very loving temperament, and, so far, very healthy. Because of her fiery attitude, we have had to spend lots of extra time training her, which has given us an extraordinary relationship with her. Perhaps if she were an easier puppy, we wouldn't have worked so hard with her obedience training, and we wouldn't be as close. So I don't regret my decision.

That being said, I have learned a lot about buying puppies over the internet and from BYB's. I still like to think that her breeder was responsible with her and the other pups and parents, but I'll never know for sure. If we ever get another dog, it will be through a shelter or reputable breeder.


----------



## maltese manica

Its sad that so many ppl opt to go and buy from a greeder breeder! Rescue or Ethical reptuable breeders only!


----------

