# Auto immune diseases~preventable?



## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

This has been driving me crazy for months.

If one doesn't vaccinate due to titers coming back with enough immunity, treat the fluff with flea medicines, heartworm, feed high quality 
food, rotate the proteins, give supplements...what more can one do so that our fluffs don't get an auto immune disease.

How is it possible that by doing all these things that are reccommended and one of your fluffs still gets an auto immune disease.
How is it possible that you have a strong healthy fluff one day and all of a sudden, out of no where, they suddenly get sick and are diagnosed with the same auto immune disease that one of your other dogs in the home has.

Is this just a strange coincidence or just bad luck.
Could it be the environment they live in, even if you steam clean the house and don't use chemicals.
Could that first fluff coming from an indoor puppymill be a carrier of some type of bacteria or virus that brings on an auto immune disease in the other fluffs?
What more can one do so that their third fluff doesn't get sick?

I would appreciate any feedback regarding this.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

It can neither be proven or dis-proven, but it could be genetic. I think there are several causes and several types of auto-immune disease. I think that even one high dose vaccine could trigger it, maybe one for a dog who is genetically per-disposed. Oddly, if there were a vaccine to prevent GME, I would get it.

I do think that some cases are triggered by a bacterial infection.


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

I do not think there is anything you can do to prevent an autoimmune disease. I think we (and dogs) have things in our genetic make-up that cause our body under the right stress to attack itself. There are autoimmune diseases that Maltese as a population are susceptible to - Addison, Gastrointestinal issues. The body can cope, until a trigger causes it to fail and to attack itself. Stress, infection, chemicals can all be sources. I think it more likely environmental than it being passed from dog to dog. Although an infection can cause the symptoms to show, the dog has to be predisposed in its genetic makeup to be susceptible. If I were a betting man - I would bet there was an environmental cause, not something you are doing, not something in one dog passed to another. I would put my money on a vector being carried by a insect - that sort of infection. My two cents. I would epidemiologically to see if there were a higher than normal rate of this particular autoimmune in the county. If so I would look at the insect populations.

But on a human level, I am sorry for the pain that this brings. I know what is it like having a dog with health issues. I know the strain it causes and I can not imagine it two-fold. I am sorry your and your girls are going through this.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Joanne, did I miss something? Is this a personal question in regard to your pups?
I agree w/Walter completely. Lisi has an IMD---I give her something to help balance her immune system (Kitzi also gets it to be sure, but he does NOT have an IMD). Dr. Falconer suggested she use Transfer Factor and she has been on it for a while now (since she lost her ear-flap & part of the 2nd one). So far she has done well, but we have to be so very careful with her and we never know when it will raise its' ugly head again. Every breath she takes I breathe a sigh of relief. People wonder why I am so paranoid, but they did not experience what happened to her---it was extremely frightening for her & for us. 
If you have 2 pups from the same line then it would be reasonable to think "genetics" may be the cause, but as Walter said---there has to be a trigger. With Lisi it was, I am relatively confident, the overload on her tiny system of vaccines as she showed immediate allergies to vaccines (anaphylactic). Kitzi had one anaphylactic reaction to a topical for ticks/fleas early on, and a few reactions (hyper-salivation) to other things, but he has not developed an IMD thus far. I personally think people too easily discount things like bug sprays, or any aerosols really that are used in the home such as hair spray, etc. Call me paranoid but there is ALWAYS a cause in my hyper logical brain. Nothing just happens.


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## sherry (Jan 4, 2013)

Joanne, I don't have an answer to your question but do believe in triggers as Walter mentioned. Is Suki Or Mika sick? I hate to think that you have another auto immune illness.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

Thank you Sylvia, Walter and Sandi.

Sandi...this is in regards to Suki. 
I vowed to myself that after dealing with Lacie issues that I would do things so differently.
Suki was the healthiest, strongest fluff I have ever owned. I was so extra careful with her and sure enough Suki got so sick a few months ago, she ended up in the hospital for a number of days.
Diagnosed with IBD, just like Lacie. The only difference is that Lacie has all four types if IBD.
This type of IBD is not genetic. She has never had more than her puppy shots to come here and has never needed them. I had been giving her the transfactor human grade form because I take it. I had only applied a half dose of flea medicine twice when the fleas were so bad and did everything possible...so I thought, to prevent anything from happening to her.

I can not except "that it just happens" per my internist and there was nothing more I could have done to prevent this.
My internist was quite surprised herself that two dogs, 2 different countries, have the same auto immune disease.
She sees LOTS of MVD, GME in our lines, very little IBD, which makes me believe it's something in my environment...but what?

What is that extra step I can take that will prevent Mika from getting an auto immune?
For those who have not done a BAT test, it was my only saving Grace that I did one. Had I not, everything was pointing to liver and kidney disease for Suki but because we had something to compare to, we could pin point GI disease.

I have researched for months on triggers and come to a dead end. I thought maybe Lacie was a carrier of the helicobacter bacteria where she had giardia when I got her, it causes GI issues but the internist said they have found it does nothing, even if she was a carrier.

Every time Mika burps...my heart drops. The only postive...I've become an expert living with 2 fluffs with IBD.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

sherry said:


> Joanne, I don't have an answer to your question but do believe in triggers as Walter mentioned. Is Suki Or Mika sick? I hate to think that you have another auto immune illness.


Yes Sherry...I don have answers either. Wish I did. Suki has IBD like Lacie


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

My Lily developed IBD after an anaphylactic reaction to a vaccine..I believe the vaccine triggered it in that her immune system was overwhelmed..she became very ill..she was not able to absorb her food, and would lose weight, literally she was starving..I thought I would lose her...she was finally put on budesonide for several months and this saved her life..she has been in remission for the last 14 months. Currently, she eats NB kangaroo & potato..her coat has thickened and she weighs more now than she ever has..


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

aprilb said:


> My Lily developed IBD after an anaphylactic reaction to a vaccine..I believe the vaccine triggered it in that her immune system was overwhelmed..she became very ill..she was not able to absorb her food, and would lose weight, literally she was starving..I thought I would lose her...she was finally put on budesonide for several months and this saved her life..she has been in remission for the last 14 months. Currently, she eats NB kangaroo & potato..her coat has thickened and she weighs more now than she ever has..


If I noticed that Suki had a reaction to something, I could be at peace as to why she got an auto immune disease but I didn't which is why I'm so bothered by this.
Lacie too has been on budesonide for the past two years and is doing well on it. Though, when I try to reduce her dose, she has a flare up.
Suki...I have decided not to start the steroids and will keep her on the tylosin, Pepcid and LID and see how she does. So far, so good.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Tessa has IBS or IBD (never differentiated because holistic vet said he would approach them the same way) and my holistic vet's philosophy is that because they are so small, stressors that would not bother you or me or a larger dog will trigger auto-immune disorders in toy breeds. That's why repeat vaccinations are a major trigger. With Tessa, we know she was over-vaccinated because she was a stray at a very young age so she got a full complement of shots at the shelter. She developed symptoms about 4 months after that, and also seems to have a major stress component in that it gets worse when she seems anxious. 

Hugs to you, my friend! This isn't fun.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

I understand how over vaccination can cause an auto immune disease, treating with flea meds, heart worm, and even feeding the same protein source can trigger an immune response in our fluffs. 
I think what I don't understand is what is left in the environment that could trigger one so I can prevent my third fluff from getting one.
Walter...you mentioned insect bite. I did pull 2 ticks off Suki in the past. Could that have been the trigger? Possible. I would have thought that treating with a monthly topical pesticide would be more riskier than without.


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## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear this. I honestly don't believe they truly understand what causes auto immune diseases. Like Walter, I believe there may be environmental factors that contribute as well-what those are, I have no idea.


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## lydiatug (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm at a loss too. This is why I'm such a ninny when it comes to any types of toxins. I've had to use flea meds a couple times too, and was so very worried. I'm so sorry you're going thru this with Mika too. Hopefully they can get a handle on it soon.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

It is a "known" fact that ticks can cause thrombocytopenia & IMHA---so I would guess they may cause other IMDs.
Do you spray or have sprayed your house against insects?


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

shellbeme said:


> I'm so sorry to hear this. I honestly don't believe they truly understand what causes auto immune diseases. Like Walter, I believe there may be environmental factors that contribute as well-what those are, I have no idea.


That's exactly what the internist said, "they don't know what causes them, it just happens".
I feel like such a control freak but I can't accept this for an answer as to why it happens


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

lydiatug said:


> I'm at a loss too. This is why I'm such a ninny when it comes to any types of toxins. I've had to use flea meds a couple times too, and was so very worried. I'm so sorry you're going thru this with Mika too. Hopefully they can get a handle on it soon.


Thanks Lydia...it's actually Suki who has been sick. Mika is still very healthy.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> It is a "known" fact that ticks can cause thrombocytopenia & IMHA---so I would guess they may cause other IMDs.
> Do you spray or have sprayed your house against insects?


I do have my yard sprayed but they are using organic pesticide. There was only two months that the fleas and ticks were so bad that I had to use a pesticide that was not organic just to get them under control. That was two years ago and I believe Suki had just arrived when I did that.
The two ticks I found on her were not even latched on yet.

I'm just so paranoid that my little fatso Mika will get the same IMD or any IMD.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Do you walk them outside where others might use non-organic (not sure what that is even) spray on their grass? You have to think outside the box in every instance to make certain to cut out anything that may be an issue. Just trying to think w/you!


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> Do you walk them outside where others might use non-organic (not sure what that is even) spray on their grass? You have to think outside the box in every instance to make certain to cut out anything that may be an issue. Just trying to think w/you!


Yes...I do walk them a lot and they do go on the edge of other people's lawn.
That's a very good possibility!
Since Suki got sick in January, I have started doing foot soaks that detoxify every night.
Maybe by doing these, it will prevent another IMD.
Its easy to forget how low to the ground they are and how easy it is for them to pick up toxins.


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Joanne - organic does not necessarily mean risk free - many organic compound sprays are made with corn derivatives. Organic weed killers are derived from corn. Luck has no allergies to corn, but other dpgs may be susceptible and may have grain issues.


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## LovelyLily (Mar 26, 2013)

Joanne, I don't have any answers but just wanted to say I am so sorry to hear that two of your little fluffs are suffering from this. (((HUGS)))

Linda


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

LovelyLily said:


> Joanne, I don't have any answers but just wanted to say I am so sorry to hear that two of your little fluffs are suffering from this. (((HUGS)))
> 
> Linda


Thank you, Linda. I appreciate that very much.
It's been difficult to say the least but I will figure it out. 
I just want them to be healthy.


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## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

wkomorow said:


> Joanne - organic does not necessarily mean risk free - many organic compound sprays are made with corn derivatives. Organic weed killers are derived from corn. Luck has no allergies to corn, but other dpgs may be susceptible and may have grain issues.


I didn't know that, Walter. Then what could I use on my lawn?


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