# Researching Pipers lineage



## Critterkrazy (Jan 17, 2007)

I was reading another topic this morning regarding registration papers and in one of the posts there was information about going to the AKC site and ordering a 5 generation pedigree (thank you Brit). So I ordered one on both Pipers mom and dad. I haven't sent in for Piper's papers because I certainly don't need any more paper in my house. She is 100% pet only. Both her parents were purchased from petshops. What I am inquiring on is if any of the breeders here or anyone else has ever heard of the kennel names listed in the pedigrees. Her daddy's pedigree appears impressive. His 3rd, 4th and 5th generation are almost all champions with the following kennel names: Di-Ell, Sam's Son's, Melody Lane, Windsong and Fantasia (I have heard of the last 3 just can't recall seeing any pics.) Her mama's is less then impressive so I won't even bother asking about those as I am sure they are all puppy mill names. Piper looks like her daddy who was very pretty (boys can be pretty.) Her mama was very pretty too but had a wavy cottony coat. I'm just curious what her extended family may look like.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Hi! Glad you got your pedigree. It's really a lot of fun investigating the dogs in it.

Have you tried doing a search? I don't think Melody Lane breeds anymore. I don't

know if Windsong does but you can do a search and find Windsong in many show 

pedigrees.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Windsong is still listed on the American Maltese Association's breeder's list (under the "D's").

http://www.americanmaltese.org/amabreederlist.htm

Never heard of the other ones. I think you may be thinking of Fantasyland, not Fantasia, although I don't think Carole Baldwin breeds Maltese anymore either. One of her males ended up in a mill/byb here in western North Carolina about five years ago.

I know we've talked about this subject before here, how some nice pedigreed dogs can end up being bred to death in puppy mills later in life. It's so sad.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

Stephanie on SM has a Maltese from Di-Ell if I remember correctly. She is an absolute darling.

This malt also has Di-Ell on the mommy side.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I found some information on Fantasia Maltese. It may be outdated, though. I'm not sure she is still breeding and showing Maltese. She's in Louisianna.

http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com//alabama/546/ffindex.html

It sure sounds like this may be another example of unfortunate show dogs ending up finishing their lives in puppy mills instead of retirement homes.


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## Critterkrazy (Jan 17, 2007)

> Stephanie on SM has a Maltese from Di-Ell if I remember correctly. She is an absolute darling.
> 
> This malt also has Di-Ell on the mommy side.
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> ...


I am not sure who Stephanie is but I would like to see a pic of her little furkid. I had never heard of Di-Ell until today when I decided to check out her pedigree. Piper's Grandad on her daddy's side is a Di-Ell dog as well as each generation of her great-grandads side with generations 3-5 all being champions except one. The rest of Piper's daddys line is full of Melody Lane, Windsong, Joanne-Chen, Mike-Mar, Al-Mar, Bar None, Fantasia and Shaw's. Hard to believe he came from a pet shop when you see this pedigree. Her mama is a whole different story. 

This is really sad but when I first went to look at Piper the lady wasn't home yet and I spent an hour playing with puppies and the parents all the while listening to him give me all sorts of info on the parents. He answered every question I threw out there. This was the 3rd litter... if you are a violent person please sit on your hands.... both parents were under 3 yrs old. They first advertised these puppies at 6 weeks old as ready to go to their new homes. He said they tried to separate them but it didn't work. Uh-huh sure they did.


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## Critterkrazy (Jan 17, 2007)

> I found some information on Fantasia Maltese. It may be outdated, though. I'm not sure she is still breeding and showing Maltese. She's in Louisianna.
> 
> http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com//alabama/546/ffindex.html
> 
> It sure sounds like this may be another example of unfortunate show dogs ending up finishing their lives in puppy mills instead of retirement homes.[/B]


Thank you for info on Fantasia. 

I have a question and I hope I don't offend any of the breeders here as that is not my intention. I am just curious. If these retired showdogs from obviously well established show bloodlines end up in puppy mills, why are the new people not screened better and why were they not altered before they left the breeders?


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=356137
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Some of these dogs are sold as young dogs, not yet retired. As for how: $$$$$$$$ 

Some breeders ethics go out the window when $$$$$$ is involved.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Faye, I know this subject has been a "pet peeve" of yours all along and you have tried to educate us to the fact that bad things happen to some very good Maltese for the almighty dollar. Didn't you mention that some of these dogs even end up at those dreadful auctions?


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> Faye, I know this subject has been a "pet peeve" of yours all along and you have tried to educate us to the fact that bad things happen to some very good Maltese for the almighty dollar. Didn't you mention that some of these dogs even end up at those dreadful auctions?[/B]


I have had emails from rescue groups trying to raise money to get champions of other breeds (not Maltese) from the auctions. At that time, the auction lists/ads are posted. I have gone to them, and I have seen the ads for these champions to be sold in auctions.


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## Critterkrazy (Jan 17, 2007)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=356179
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<span style="color:#6666CC">Oh my!!! Those poor helpless babies. How sad and heartless. I had no clue that some reputable breeders would just "throw out" all their hard work. I always thought they worked hard to protect their reputation. 

Sorry Faye, I didn't mean to "poke a sore spot" with some of my questions. I was just hoping that someone here knew something about the specific bloodlines or maybe had older dogs from these bloodlines and could share pics.</span>


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=356203
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I'm sure. at some time or other, everyone has heard jokes about used car salesmen. Well, in my opinion, they are in the minor league when compared with a breeder who is willing to say whatever it takes to get a nice pup with full breeding rights. 

Many of these problems could be stopped if the breeder stayed on the papers until the dog is finished, and then have a similar clause for offspring from pups that dog may produce. But, it doesn't stop the more determined because it takes only one signature to sign the registration papers for the stud. So, if an evil being buys a male for show, but has other intentions, they can breed the dog and register the pups. Breeders usually have a clause in the paperwork that says there will be a large fine if this is done, but that involves a court case which many would not persue.

The best way I've seen to stop a lot of this breeding is to lease the pup to the new owner until it is either spayed/neutered, or a championship is finished on the dog. Of course the unethical people would not be interested in having one of these dogs.


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

Tina


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

> Tina[/B]



Thank You Tina for that wonderful information.


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## Critterkrazy (Jan 17, 2007)

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=366421


<div class='quotemain'>Thank you Tina. I tried to find my old Maltese books but I have them packed away. I knew most of these bloodlines went back to when I showed (not maltese) back in the early 80's. Although the Maltese was not my dream dog at the time, I still loved to watch them and followed the show results for a while. I was just hoping someone here knew more info then what I could find. Thank you again.


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## CathyB (Mar 10, 2007)

Pedigree Central This is a very helpful site when researching a pedigree..


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

FYI - Michael Wolf is not deceased. If he is breeding then he is doing it illegally. On 10/10/2005 333 dogs, three cats and two birds were confiscated when his kennel was raided. He and two others were arrested.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> FYI - Michael Wolf is not deceased. If he is breeding then he is doing it illegally. On 10/10/2005 333 dogs, three cats and two birds were confiscated when his kennel was raided. He and two others were arrested.[/B]


That might explain how Mike-Mar lines ended up in puppy mills and pet shops, huh?


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

> FYI - Michael Wolf is not deceased. If he is breeding then he is doing it illegally. On 10/10/2005 333 dogs, three cats and two birds were confiscated when his kennel was raided. He and two others were arrested.[/B]


 

At least we know what happened to him. I just saw pictures of him in some of the Maltese books dated in 1980's and he looked like an older gentleman. Thanks for the update.

Tina


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