# eye rim not completely dark yet?



## aksm45

Hello everyone ,

i went to reserve my puppy yesterday gorgeous little girl !!! we named her luna the only concern i have is that she is 15 weeks old and one of her eyes is not completely dark rimmed yet?? the breeder told me to put her in the sun one hour daily and it will come is this information correct?


akms45


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## jmm

It may darken or it may not. The breeder knows their lines and can give you their best guess.


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## bellaratamaltese

is it the rim or the halo? The rim is like the eyeliner around the eye and halos are the pigment surrounding the eye. It may fill in with sun.

Did you get any pics of her? Since she is being sold as a pet, I wouldnt' be too concerned about the a bit of pigment missing.


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## aksm45

Hello stacey!!!

so nice to hear from you i went to chat but noone there....no not the halo the rim i really want it to come in even if she is a pet she looks akward like that and the breeder told me that the sun would bring it in she was very convincing about it ?????
she even told she was willing to put in the final contract when i go get her if it does not come in she would exchanger her ???? because she saw my concern over it...



aksm45


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## k/c mom

I got Claire at 7 months and her eye rims each have a spot that is not filled in. The breeder indicated that this is probably as good as it gets. I don't care about that at all and it doesn't bother me. 

However, it seems like it really bothers you and if I were you I would pass. Once you bond with your Malt I cannot imagine giving her up or putting her through the trauma of adjusting to leaving your home. I would wait for a Malt that passes your inspection 100%.


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## bellaratamaltese

QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Jul 28 2009, 03:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=810868


> I got Claire at 7 months and her eye rims each have a spot that is not filled in. The breeder indicated that this is probably as good as it gets. I don't care about that at all and it doesn't bother me.
> 
> However, it seems like it really bothers you and if I were you I would pass. Once you bond with your Malt I cannot imagine giving her up or putting her through the trauma of adjusting to leaving your home. I would wait for a Malt that passes your inspection 100%.[/B]


I have to agree here. It's not fair to the dog or the breeder for you to return her over something like eye rims.


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## aggiemom99

QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Jul 28 2009, 05:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=810868


> I got Claire at 7 months and her eye rims each have a spot that is not filled in. The breeder indicated that this is probably as good as it gets. I don't care about that at all and it doesn't bother me.
> 
> However, it seems like it really bothers you and if I were you I would pass. Once you bond with your Malt I cannot imagine giving her up or putting her through the trauma of adjusting to leaving your home. I would wait for a Malt that passes your inspection 100%.[/B]


 :goodpost: I agree with Sher. If this is important to you perhaps you should wait. I got Lexie at 12 weeks and her rims were completely filled in....


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## Ladysmom

QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Jul 28 2009, 06:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=810868


> I got Claire at 7 months and her eye rims each have a spot that is not filled in. The breeder indicated that this is probably as good as it gets. I don't care about that at all and it doesn't bother me.
> 
> However, it seems like it really bothers you and if I were you I would pass. Once you bond with your Malt I cannot imagine giving her up or putting her through the trauma of adjusting to leaving your home. I would wait for a Malt that passes your inspection 100%.[/B]


 :thmbup: I agree completely. If this is something that truly bothers you, I would pass on this puppy. 

Remember even if her rim did turn completely black in the sun, it's not a permanent solution. Maltese get "winter" noses which means a nose that is black in the summer can get pale in the winter. I know Lady get lots of black "dalmatian" spots on her skin in the summer that disappear in the winter. 

I just can't imagine the heartbreak of exchanging a puppy in a few months. Most likely you wouldn't be able to do it and would always be disappointed about the eye rim if it's that important to you.


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## LJSquishy

QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Jul 28 2009, 03:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=810868


> I got Claire at 7 months and her eye rims each have a spot that is not filled in. The breeder indicated that this is probably as good as it gets. I don't care about that at all and it doesn't bother me.
> 
> However, it seems like it really bothers you and if I were you I would pass. Once you bond with your Malt I cannot imagine giving her up or putting her through the trauma of adjusting to leaving your home. I would wait for a Malt that passes your inspection 100%.[/B]


I completely agree -- if you're not 100% happy with this pup, I would wait for a different one. By 15 weeks old, the eye rim (eyeliner) is probably as dark as it will get. There is a small chance that it will come in fully, but if it is completely pink, it will most likely stay that way.


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## aksm45

Well guys thanks again for all your good advice!!

Well it looks like i got tooken again .... now i gave a deposit non ref because the breeder convinced me that it was going to fill in its not all pink it has some dark coloring,so now im upset i do not know i guess i loose my money if i do not take the puppy , she will not give my money back and she has no more pups for a while coming in , i mean she reasured when she saw it botherd me guess she really wanted to make a sale!!! because i guess she knew that i was not going to get her with that flaw, and im so sorry but it bothers me when im spending that kind of money i want to get what i expect....


aksm45


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## ilovemymaltese

QUOTE (aksm45 @ Jul 28 2009, 06:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=810890


> Well guys thanks again for all your good advice!!
> 
> Well it looks like i got tooken again .... now i gave a deposit non ref because the breeder convinced me that it was going to fill in its not all pink it has some dark coloring,so now im upset i do not know i guess i loose my money if i do not take the puppy , she will not give my money back and she has no more pups for a while coming in , i mean she reasured when she saw it botherd me guess she really wanted to make a sale!!! because i guess she knew that i was not going to get her with that flaw, and im so sorry but it bothers me when im spending that kind of money i want to get what i expect....
> 
> 
> aksm45[/B]


Which breeder is this who you are speaking of? I have put deposits on pups from very reputable breeders before and changed my mind and they have given me my deposit back...

You should ask the breeder why she is not keeping the pup for show. If she says it is for that reason, than she thinks that the pigment won't come in at all.


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## norcalgal

QUOTE (aksm45 @ Jul 28 2009, 03:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=810890


> Well guys thanks again for all your good advice!!
> 
> Well it looks like i got tooken again .... now i gave a deposit non ref because the breeder convinced me that it was going to fill in its not all pink it has some dark coloring,so now im upset i do not know i guess i loose my money if i do not take the puppy , she will not give my money back and she has no more pups for a while coming in , i mean she reasured when she saw it botherd me guess she really wanted to make a sale!!! because i guess she knew that i was not going to get her with that flaw, and im so sorry but it bothers me when im spending that kind of money i want to get what i expect....
> 
> 
> aksm45[/B]


I am sorry the breeder has pushed you into this purchase.  I can perfectly understand wanting "your perfect puppy". I was suppose to get mine end of this summer but looks like it's not going to happen. It's hard to find the perfect female puppy for a pet. One little girl I was considering developed an underbite, which was an immediate deal braker for me as I don't do underbites. The other girl had the same issue as yours, the eyeliner around the eye didn't come in. I firmly believe that when one is looking for a companion for the next 10 to 15 years it has to be exactly what one is looking for.


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## aksm45

The breeder is uphere in quebec....but what is the point of giving out names it does not make a difference now what is done is done , the name of the breeder does not matter , it will not change much , i just have to decide to just loose my money and not go get the pup because that is how its done with this lady and many breeders here in quebec that i have spoken too its non ref deposit....and i guess learn my lesson about being so trusting ....but it was icredible she looked so sincere when she told me that one hour of sun daily and everything will be fine , something told me hmmmm but did not listen to my little voice i mean she even offerd to exchange the dog if her rim did not fully come in , imagine that , and the best part my bestfriend picked one up 5 months ago at a petshop and she told me to buy one and i said nop i refuse to contribute to puppymills iam buying from a breeder and her puppy is just gorgeous!!! and i spending double for what??? too bad there is some bad breeders out there and this is my first experience with one and not pleasant i guess huh ... so guys keep on doing what you do and be weary of these kind of people that give good breeders a bad name!!!!!!! sorry but i had to blow of some steam it hurts to get taken like this , this pup was going 1200 so i might wind up loosing a couple of hundred dollars and wait for a long time before i actually think of getting another dog.


aksm45


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## bellaratamaltese

QUOTE (aksm45 @ Jul 28 2009, 06:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=810939


> The breeder is uphere in quebec....but what is the point of giving out names it does not make a difference now what is done is done , the name of the breeder does not matter , it will not change much , i just have to decide to just loose my money and not go get the pup because that is how its done with this lady and many breeders here in quebec that i have spoken too its non ref deposit....and i guess learn my lesson about being so trusting ....but it was icredible she looked so sincere when she told me that one hour of sun daily and everything will be fine , something told me hmmmm but did not listen to my little voice i mean she even offerd to exchange the dog if her rim did not fully come in , imagine that , and the best part my bestfriend picked one up 5 months ago at a petshop and she told me to buy one and i said nop i refuse to contribute to puppymills iam buying from a breeder and her puppy is just gorgeous!!! and i spending double for what??? too bad there is some bad breeders out there and this is my first experience with one and not pleasant i guess huh ... so guys keep on doing what you do and be weary of these kind of people that give good breeders a bad name!!!!!!! sorry but i had to blow of some steam it hurts to get taken like this , this pup was going 1200 so i might wind up loosing a couple of hundred dollars and wait for a long time before i actually think of getting another dog.
> 
> 
> aksm45[/B]


In my opinion, it's impossible to say either way if that eye rim will come in. Sun could improve things or it may just be like that. 

What happened to the male you were looking at?

Maybe you could ask her to reduce the price because of the eye rim? Personally, it wouldn't bother me too much but I dont' expect a pet to be perfect. I wouldnt' knock this breeder just because she has a puppy with a msising eye rim. That isn't her fault, that is genetics. If she has a history of producing dogs with missing eye rims or pigment, then that is another story. Yes, she could refund your money (that is what I would do) but she seems like she's been going out of her way to work with you, even knowing you have large dogs at home. Not all breeders would do that (and I would probably be one of them).

As we discussed in chat, i do not know this breeder or her breeding program so I can't say for sure but she's either* really* wanting to make a sale or is just being very helpful. How much would this puppy be in USD?


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## aksm45

Stacey hey ,,,,

I'm not dishing her But why not be honest and tell me that it probably wont fully come in or maybe it will not come in and let me have a choice about the matter because if she was to tell me it like that I think I would have waited on getting a puppy ......I just know that the eyes of the maltese is what gives its unique look , and the big guy was huge , so you see i was very honest and told her noway he is too big than i saw the two little girls one was nice but her temperament was not what we were looking for ,very yappy ,bossy , she told me herself nogo she is not what im looking for as far as character so she showed me the other little girl and she told me she would be perfect for you guys and the only thing i told her she is but her eye is funny and thats when the whole one hour in the sun thingy etc... started and i said 100% sure and she said oh yes if not i will exchange the pup ,so for me its just that i really started building a relationship and thought she would have no reason to lie , so i just wanted to ask about here on the forums and make sure from other breeders like kind of getting a second opinion from a doctor and seems to me that it will robably not come in fully and it matters to me because im very honest and trusting ,so a deal is a deal i will go get the puppy and give it a loving home that it deserves and hope that things will turn out , i have a video of the pup stacey just do not know how to post it here ......


aksm45


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## bellaratamaltese

QUOTE (NorCalGal @ Jul 28 2009, 05:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=810928


> QUOTE (aksm45 @ Jul 28 2009, 03:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=810890





> Well guys thanks again for all your good advice!!
> 
> Well it looks like i got tooken again .... now i gave a deposit non ref because the breeder convinced me that it was going to fill in its not all pink it has some dark coloring,so now im upset i do not know i guess i loose my money if i do not take the puppy , she will not give my money back and she has no more pups for a while coming in , i mean she reasured when she saw it botherd me guess she really wanted to make a sale!!! because i guess she knew that i was not going to get her with that flaw, and im so sorry but it bothers me when im spending that kind of money i want to get what i expect....
> 
> 
> aksm45[/B]


I am sorry the breeder has pushed you into this purchase.  I can perfectly understand wanting "your perfect puppy". I was suppose to get mine end of this summer but looks like it's not going to happen. It's hard to find the perfect female puppy for a pet. One little girl I was considering developed an underbite, which was an immediate deal braker for me as I don't do underbites. The other girl had the same issue as yours, the eyeliner around the eye didn't come in. I firmly believe that when one is looking for a companion for the next 10 to 15 years it has to be exactly what one is looking for.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Oh I'm sorry to hear about your pups not working out. Can I ask why an underbite bothers you so much? Was it that bad that it affected the look of the puppy? I sure hope you find your perfect baby!


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## CloudClan

QUOTE (aksm45 @ Jul 28 2009, 06:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=810890


> Well it looks like i got tooken again .... now i gave a deposit non ref because the breeder convinced me that it was going to fill in its not all pink it has some dark coloring,so now im upset i do not know i guess i loose my money if i do not take the puppy , she will not give my money back and she has no more pups for a while coming in , i mean she reasured when she saw it botherd me guess she really wanted to make a sale!!! because i guess she knew that i was not going to get her with that flaw, and im so sorry but it bothers me when im spending that kind of money i want to get what i expect....
> aksm45[/B]


Anna, 
I would not assume she was trying to "take" you. The fact is that pigment in Northern places like Quebec doesn't always fill in as quickly. I personally would not consider this a big deal. It is such a minor issue in comparison to the big things like health and temperment. Don't get me wrong I would not want to show a dog without the full pigment, but I have seen handlers using eye-liner on show dogs. :huh: That goes to show just what a cosmetic issue it really is. 

No dog is perfect. Show dogs have faults. Usually, a show breeder will keep the best of their breedings, so those dogs they place as pets will usually have some fault or another like an underbite, a missing eye-rim, or a bad tailset. None of these things influence what a beautiful pet a Maltese can be. Most of my Maltese until recently had a laundry list of these kind faults but they were perfect to me. 

For instance, my sassy darling Cameo had a piggy tail, a little streak of black in her coat and not even close to flowing movement. But I was BLESSED to have her in my life. :wub2: My Cloud who started the whole thing was bow-legged and his nose lost pigment as he got older. He was also 8 pounds. His coat was cottony. Yet without him I wouldn't have had all these beautiful dogs as he made me fall head over heels for this lovely breed. :wub: 

I think it would be a shame to miss out on the love and devotion you could have for worry over the perfection of an eyerim. 


NorcalGirl,

What is your concern about the bite? Are you planning to show? Are you concerned that the dog will have dental issues? 

I hate to see anyone expect any living creature to be "perfect." You are dealing with a living/loving creature. No dog is going to be "perfect" as there is no such thing. Even the most beautiful show dogs you have ever seen are imperfect. 

I have to admit. From my work in rescue this kind of thing bothers me. When people set their expectations so high the dogs pay the price. :thmbdn: 

If I was a breeder placing puppies I would never place a dog in a home where I was worried that dental problems would be a "deal-breaker," since often the bite is not guaranteed until the dog is 6 months old. 

JMHO


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## Ladysmom

QUOTE (aksm45 @ Jul 28 2009, 09:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=810951


> Stacey hey ,,,,
> 
> I'm not dishing her But why not be honest and tell me that it probably wont fully come in or maybe it will not come in and let me have a choice about the matter because if she was to tell me it like that I think I would have waited on getting a puppy ......I just know that the eyes of the maltese is what gives its unique look , and the big guy was huge , so you see i was very honest and told her noway he is too big than i saw the two little girls one was nice but her temperament was not what we were looking for ,very yappy ,bossy , she told me herself nogo she is not what im looking for as far as character so she showed me the other little girl and she told me she would be perfect for you guys and the only thing i told her she is but her eye is funny and thats when the whole one hour in the sun thingy etc... started and i said 100% sure and she said oh yes if not i will exchange the pup ,so for me its just that i really started building a relationship and thought she would have no reason to lie , so i just wanted to ask about here on the forums and make sure from other breeders like kind of getting a second opinion from a doctor and seems to me that it will robably not come in fully and it matters to me because im very honest and trusting ,so a deal is a deal i will go get the puppy and give it a loving home that it deserves and hope that things will turn out , i have a video of the pup stacey just do not know how to post it here ......
> 
> 
> aksm45[/B]


There is no such thing as a perfect Maltese. Even champion Maltese have flaws. Handlers work very hard to camouflage imperfections before they take their Maltese into the ring. Just like supermodels on the cover of a magazine, the "look" takes hours and hours of work! 

Since you have two large dogs at home, personality and suitably to integrate easily into your household should be more important than physical appearance IMO. If you trust this breeder and she feels this puppy would be a good fit, I think that is far more important that a little pink in the eye rim.


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## MandyMc65

QUOTE (NorCalGal @ Jul 28 2009, 04:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=810928


> I am sorry the breeder has pushed you into this purchase.  I can perfectly understand wanting "your perfect puppy". I was suppose to get mine end of this summer but looks like it's not going to happen. It's hard to find the perfect female puppy for a pet. One little girl I was considering developed an underbite, which was an immediate deal braker for me as I don't do underbites. The other girl had the same issue as yours, the eyeliner around the eye didn't come in. I firmly believe that when one is looking for a companion for the next 10 to 15 years it has to be exactly what one is looking for.[/B]


Why is having an underbite a "deal breaker" for you? Here's my baby girl who developed an underbite. The main reason she is my pet and not in the show ring is because of it, so I am glad for underbites!

[attachment=55328:underbite.jpg]

No dog is going to be perfect. And if they were close, they probably wouldn't be placed as a pet and would be shown. 

I don't think the breeder was trying to con you into the deposit or wanting the puppy. Have you tried calling the breeder and asking her if she would be willing to refund the deposit because you changed your mind? The eye rim may fill in, it may not. You do need to be happy with the puppy you purchase, but you also need to realize that it probably will have at least 1 fault.


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## norcalgal

Hi Stacy, Carina and Mandy.

I know very well that there is no such thing as a perfect puppy, just a puppy that's perfect for me. I have a very strong dislike for underbites and find them aesthetically displeasing. I take a decision to bring the puppy into the house very seriously and would not return the puppy I already have for a cosmetic issue, I would rather not get one to begin with. Some people want a tiny maltese, some want a larger one, I want one without an underbite. Why is that wrong?


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## bellaratamaltese

QUOTE (NorCalGal @ Jul 28 2009, 09:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=811036


> Hi Stacy, Carina and Mandy.
> 
> I know very well that there is no such thing as a perfect puppy, just a puppy that's perfect for me. I have a very strong dislike for underbites and find them aesthetically displeasing. I take a decision to bring the puppy into the house very seriously and would not return the puppy I already have for a cosmetic issue, I would rather not get one to begin with. Some people want a tiny maltese, some want a larger one, I want one without an underbite. Why is that wrong?[/B]


From a show stand point, I completely understand and no breeder wants bad bites! Luckily, it's not the norm so hopefully you wont' run into that same issue.


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## ilovemymaltese

FYI- Just to let you know, 80% you can't tell a malt(or any breed with fur/hair) has an underbite, overbite, or scizzor bite. That's why you see judges in dog shows ALWAYS check the teeth of a dog, because you can't tell by looking at a dog. Like, could you tell that MandyMac's malt had and underbite, or overbite, or scizzor bite. You can't tell unless you look under the lips.....


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## ilovemymaltese

Oh, and another FYI- show breeder's strive to have a pup with a good bite and structure. You can't fake that. Handlers can fake the pigment, coat, ect. but not bone structure. That's why it might be extremely hard to find a dog with a scizzor bite. Especially with a puppy, b/c you won't know if they will have a correct bite unless their adult come in. And that happens when a pup is 6-10 months old.

EDIT: Also, adult teeth may come in croocked, so the bite will be straight but the teeth might be poking out ofthe dogs mouth! LOL 

And did you know that dog braces do exist! I just googled it! OMG People! LOL

I guess I'd just rather have a silky staright maltese-looking coat, than an invisible underbite(like Mandy's Kenzie! LOL)


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## norcalgal

Stacy,

I know there is a little girl for me, I am just going to be patient.


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## bellaratamaltese

QUOTE (NorCalGal @ Jul 28 2009, 09:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=811042


> Stacy,
> 
> I know there is a little girl for me, I am just going to be patient. [/B]


Awww, I hope so!


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## norcalgal

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Jul 28 2009, 09:20 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=811040


> Oh, and another FYI- show breeder's strive to have a pup with a good bite and structure. You can't fake that. Handlers can fake the pigment, coat, ect. but not bone structure. That's why it might be extremely hard to find a dog with a scizzor bite. Especially with a puppy, b/c you won't know if they will have a correct bite unless their adult come in. And that happens when a pup is 6-10 months old.
> 
> EDIT: Also, adult teeth may come in croocked, so the bite will be straight but the teeth might be poking out ofthe dogs mouth! LOL
> 
> And did you know that dog braces do exist! I just googled it! OMG People! LOL
> 
> I guess I'd just rather have a silky staright maltese-looking coat, than an invisible underbite(like Mandy's Kenzie! LOL)[/B]


I can see underbites, most of them anyway, along with crooked teeth. On the other hand, I don't mind and a slight wave to the coat. Different strokes for different folks.


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## norcalgal

Hey Stacy,

I know!!!! I must come to one of the dog shows when you are showing so I can drool over your dogs while I am still waiting for mine. :biggrin:


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## ilovemymaltese

Oh, and good luck with your search! :thumbsup: So you're looking to get an older pup right? You'll love missing the puppy stage! LOL They'te cute but that's it for me! LOL


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## norcalgal

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Jul 28 2009, 09:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=811046


> Oh, and good luck with your search! :thumbsup: So you're looking to get an older pup right? You'll love missing the puppy stage! LOL They'te cute but that's it for me! LOL[/B]


I am open to the age, but it would be nice to miss the puppyhood. I've done my share of raising little ones. My shepherd was raised by me from an 8 week old baby to a 125 lb monster...may he rest in peace. I've raised my kitty since she was 6 weeks (12 years old now) cause the "breeder" miscalculated her age. My Havanese was 12 weeks old when I got him, and it took me from the day I got him till he was 6 months old of non stop supervision to completely house brake him. So yeah, I won't miss the puppy stage, the chewing, the biting, the peeing.


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## CeeCee's Mom

I got both of my girls that I have now at about 1 1/2 years old, CeeCee a little older and I don't regret the training and the puppy stage at all. It was wonderful......they both came fully potty pad trained~~~!Love it!!!! The only thing that I missed was the "puppy breath!!"


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## norcalgal

QUOTE (CeeCee's Mom @ Jul 29 2009, 08:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=811121


> I got both of my girls that I have now at about 1 1/2 years old, CeeCee a little older and I don't regret the training and the puppy stage at all. It was wonderful......they both came fully potty pad trained~~~!Love it!!!! The only thing that I missed was the "puppy breath!!"[/B]



You make it sound more and more appealing getting an older baby. Having a fully potty trained/house broken furbaby is great, but I know I would miss some of the fun puppy antics.


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