# electric training fences, good or bad?



## Rocks (Jul 9, 2012)

I don't have a fence around my back yard and I'd really like to be able to play with Louie outside without having to keep him on a tie out line. Many times I've seen those little flags in yards talking about dog in training, invisible fence. I've been bouncing the idea around but I don't care for the idea of Louie getting any kind of pain. I also know that if Louie sees something he wants to chase no matter how big it is he is off like a shot and nothing I say will stop him once he locks on a target to chase. I could really use some feedback on this as I'd really like him to have some freedom from being tied to a line any time he is outside. He manages to wrap the lone around just about anything and gets himself stuck and I'd really like to see him running freely in the yard.


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## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

I am not a fan of them. My understanding is your dog wears a collar and that is part of the system. I don't know if there are any that are based off of sound waves but the majority I see give your dog an electric shock of he tries to go over the barrier. I would almost rather have a tie down in the middle of the yard and have the dog attached to it by his harness on a line.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Bad. They are based on electric shock. The dog gets close to the buried "fence" and the shock get progressively stronger. I can't even imagine doing anything to cause pain to a dog, especially a tiny one.

The other problem with electric fences is, as my friend likes to say, is that I've never seen a coyote wearing a collar for an electric fence. So while your dog is being kept in the yard to avoid the pain of the shock, any critter passing by is free to come into your yard and do whatever - including attack your dog.


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## IzzysBellasMom (Jan 16, 2013)

We had one for our lab, and it worked for a little while, but even on the strongest shock current he would take off running and get through it. He learned it would only shock him once or twice if he was running at full blast,. Once they get away from the fence, inside your yard or out, it stops shocking them. It was a lot of money wasted.


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

I have heard of people who had an electric fence and the poor dog would only go and sit in a 2 foot square of grass and not move from that spot because it was so afraid of getting shocked.


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## Tanner's Mom (May 27, 2005)

I had an invisible fence around my property for years but only put the collar on my Italian Greyhound. The kind of "fence" we had would beep several times before it activated. We disconnected it a looong time ago, but to this day, the IG will not cross the "invisible" line. I never put the collars on my Malts because they are just too small & mine were always very close to me anyway. Your Maltese doesn't need to be outside without supervision, they're just too small and you don't know what's out there--hawks, owls, snakes, coyotes, fox. I mean, they look like bunnies. They are prey! And let's not forget people who steal dogs from yards & traffic on the road. Several years ago, we fenced in an area in the back yard and that has worked really well. However, even then they are not outside without me. Ever.


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## spookiesmom (Mar 28, 2010)

I wouldn't do it to ANY dog, large or small. I couldn't stand the thought of hurting them on purpose, and it doesn't keep the bad critters or guys OUT.


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## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

I wouldn't be able to do it either and hurt them on purpose. Plus like it was said, other critters can get in, and it doesn't solve any threats from hawks etc. I dont' mean to be rude or anything but I was thinking I would be afraid of holding (or wearing) that collar myself and walking through the fence to test it, so I wouldn't want to do it to Jodi.


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## Rocks (Jul 9, 2012)

I didn't realize I got so many replies, I never got an email notification saying people replied even though I am subscribed to this thread.

Anyhow, I would never let Louie out without me being there so it was not even a consideration of using it to let him out without supervision. The problem is when I have him on a tie out there are trees and bushes that he always manages to get get wrapped around and stuck. I'd love to be able to play fetch with him in the back yard but every throw would require me to untangle him from something.

Also even though in the house he always comes when I call him once he gets outside if he spots a squirrel or anything that he decides he wants to chase he is off like a shot and nothing I say will stop him. I am not sure if this is typical for this breed like an Irish setter I once had, once it was running there was no stopping it. Or maybe I just don't know what word he was trained with originally to get him to stop.

I know he had to have some training before I got him because he has his basic commands down perfectly, I say sit and his butt goes down so fast it probably creates a breeze. same with lay down, stay and the other basics. I'm guessing they had to have some word they used to get him to stop and return but I have yet to figure it out if there is even such a word that would get this strong minded little beast to stop going after something.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

You can get an over-head line and attach it to his harness to prevent tangling.


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## Rocks (Jul 9, 2012)

jmm said:


> You can get an over-head line and attach it to his harness to prevent tangling.


That was the first thing I tried but our back yard is long and narrow with small trees right in the middle that he kept getting wrapped around. The one I am using now is the type that screw into the ground and I just try and place it where it gives him the most room to run but the tree is still an issue as are neighbors yards. The one neighbor isn't a problem but heaven forbid Louie even takes one step onto the other neighbors driveway, That neighbor is a real "female dog" and she seems to have police over a couple times a month because she is complaining about someone/something in the area. Thankfully its usually not us but she is the type that seems to just look for trouble and ways to make people miserable.


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## IzzysBellasMom (Jan 16, 2013)

When I want to let Izzy out to play I leave her I. The long line but don't tie it. This way if she heads to the road or waterway I can quickly step in the long li be to stop her, but the line is loose so she doesn't get hung up on anything. This is what was recommended by he trainer until she learns the boundaries of our yard.


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## Rocks (Jul 9, 2012)

IzzysBellasMom said:


> When I want to let Izzy out to play I leave her I. The long line but don't tie it. This way if she heads to the road or waterway I can quickly step in the long li be to stop her, but the line is loose so she doesn't get hung up on anything. This is what was recommended by he trainer until she learns the boundaries of our yard.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'll give that a try but the way he runs I can still see him wrapping around the trees. He likes to run in circles and heaven forbid he went to take off after something and I missed stepping on the line. Two doors down they have a pit bull that is routinely tied out in front and Louie has been trying to get at it every chance he gets, not to mention the pit bull seems to want to get at Louie. There is also a large dog across the street and more down the street that all appear somewhat aggressive and Louie isn't the type to back down from any size animal. 

I wish I could afford a real fence for the back yard but besides the cost there is the issue of my one neighbor having a partial fence in the dumbest place and I know she would not allow us to attach to it to close off the yard. She is so bad that she doesn't allow me to cut the grass within 3 feet of her driveway because she says its her property so when I cut the grass there is a line along their driveway thats not cut and makes our yard look bad until they cut theirs. She has actually knocked on my door to complain that some of my grass clippings landed on her driveway. I'll walk outside and look and I just about have to crawl on the ground to even find one blade but she expects me to sweep her driveway. Needless to say I didn't and I told her to call the cops if she had a problem with it. She actually called them and the cop even told her that we can't be responsible for what the wind blows and where it blows. He was shaking his head in disbelief that she actually called about it.


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## IzzysBellasMom (Jan 16, 2013)

Gosh, talk about terrible neighbors. We have some Pitts in our neighborhood too, but they are in pens. Without a fence I guess you will have to keep him tied.


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## Rocks (Jul 9, 2012)

IzzysBellasMom said:


> Gosh, talk about terrible neighbors. We have some Pitts in our neighborhood too, but they are in pens. Without a fence I guess you will have to keep him tied.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Then I also have the drunks across the street that are out almost every night drinking in their yard around a fire. Every time I let Louie out at night they think its funny to tease him and get him barking even though I am standing right there doing every thing I can to keep him from barking late at night. It's almost a shame that before you buy a house you can't live in it for a few months first to see how the neighbors are. I would try talking to them but trying to reason with a drunk is not going to get you anywhere except a possible fight.


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## garrettsmom (May 15, 2006)

Here's an alternate opinion on invisible fences from someone who had the same concerns as you a few years ago. My Winnie would listen to basic commands such as sit and stay, but when it came to being outside and seeing a squirrel race by or watching a jogger or dog walker pass our home, Winnie would immediately take off like a flash. I found myself chasing her all over the neighborhood. She'd dash across the street and wander through various neighbors' yards where large dogs were residing. The usual scenario would be me attempting to lure her with treats; she'd stop for a moment, then dash away right before I grabbed her. I'm sure it was great fun for her! I finally decided that it would be safer and less cruel to invest in an invisible fence than to see Winnie get hit by a car, mauled by another dog or just plain lost.

I got an invisble fence installed a few years ago and have never regretted it. Like you, I initially posted my query on this forum and got some flack from members who envisioned a little dog getting painfully zapped on a regualr basis. The fact is, after feeling the vibratory sensation once or twice, the dog, (at least my dog) has never broached the perimeter of my yard again. If she gets to within a few feet of the fence, a beeping sound occurs which reminds her to go no further lest she gets that unpleasant sensation again. It works like a charm! Winnie is now able to run freely in the yard, front and back....follow me while I garden and sit beside me relaxing. Yes, she still barks at passerbyers, but I no longer fear her escaping. When she sees me reaching for the collar, she becomes so happily excited because she knows its "outdoor play-time".

I will say Winnie is on the large side of Malts. I probably wouldn't feel very comfortable putting such a collar on a smaller Maltese. I highly doubt a hawk would have the strength to lift her (She's a giant next to a bunny rabbit). I STILL get concerned over coyotes however and *do not use the fence as a babysitter, meaning I never allow her outside unattended.* It's use is basically so we both can enjoy outdoor time together without her running off. 

Yes, a 'real' fence is the best solution, but not always possible. Good luck with your decision!


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## Ryder's Mom (Jun 10, 2011)

My aunt got an invisible fence for the backyard here, and it actually works well. There used to be four dogs that lived here, and none ever went through it. The type that we have actually alerts the dogs with a noise if they're within a foot of the fence, then it's a very, very low voltage shock that they get if they get on it. Ryder has never went that far to get shocked. When we first got it, he was just walked along the fence and the noise and vibration was enough to keep him from going too far. Now he doesn't even wear the collar anymore because he knows where the boundaries are.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

The shock is one thing - the lack of reliability of invisible fencing is the other. 

One of my co-workers has a friend who uses invisible fencing in the front yard for their shih tzu. Wednesday evening, the family was outside in the yard, playing with their dog when something caught the pup's attention - they really don't even know what she saw. She was wearing her collar and the fence was on but she charged right through it, ran into the street and was hit by a car. 

As of the end of the day yesterday, the prognosis was not good. She had multiple internal injuries, including pelvic fractures and a broken leg. They will evaluate her this morning and make a determination on whether she can be saved or if they will have to send her to the Bridge.

In case you think this is a "fluke," this is the second person in the last week that I know of whose dog "broke through" invisible fencing and was hit by a car. The first dog was a lab; he did not survive. 

The other factor is, in an area with coyotes and other "critters," the invisible fence will not keep the danger out.


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## Rocks (Jul 9, 2012)

That is one of my biggest concerns, the fence isn't 100% reliable. As fast as Louie takes off after something the time between the warning sound and the shock or vibration would be a split second and with his focus on what he was chasing he might not even notice the sound and the shock would be almost useless. When I first got him and didn't know any better I got one of those electric bark collars that gives a mild shock to stop excess barking and when Louie saw or heard another dog, squirrel, bird, person walking etc. he barked and the collar had no effect. I returned it thinking it was defective and got another brand and still it had no effect. I have since then worked on the barking myself with Louie and got it mostly under control. But even now, when something gets his attention he is a stubborn little monster and wants to let the whole neighborhood know this is his yard and nothing should dare come near it.

Yesterday a guy came over to look at some motorcycle parts I have and he brought his Great Dane, an absolutely gorgeous black Dane female the size of a pony. Louie was losing his mind trying to get at her and she was big enough to swallow him without chewing! She was a big baby, very friendly and I fell in love with her at first sight. Louie had to be put in the house and closed in a room so we could actually talk without trying to talk over Louie's very vocal response to this dog that dared to enter his turf.

Just like when we had the garage sale. Louie was an angel the whole time until some one brought their dogs with them to shop. They actually got upset when Louie tried to go after their dogs! The worst part is when they were getting out of their car they could see Louie, they heard him barking as soon as he saw their dogs and they still brought them into the yard. I even told them that he doesn't like other dogs in the yard and yet they still kept coming. Their dogs were even smaller than Louie and I was afraid one of the dogs could get hurt so I had to hold a very squirmy Louie the whole time they were here and these people were completely oblivious to the fact that they were acting like idiots.


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## garrettsmom (May 15, 2006)

Maggie, that's horrible about your friends shih tzu, the family must be devastated. I have heard of larger dogs breaking through the fence on occasion, not soo much with smaller dogs. Still, this dreaded scenario (Winnie dashing into the road and getting hit) was one of the main reasons I went with an invisible fence. I know I greatly reduced the the chances of her going into the street, in my particular case by 100%, by installing the fence. Prior to the fence, Winnie even squirmed her way out of her harness and fled down the street leaving me frantic holding onto a dogless leash and harness! ANYthing is possible, but for me it's about reducung the risks as best I can.

The coyote issue is another story and I think everyone is in agreement that only a very tall physical fence can keep these creatures away. In my community, there've been instances where the coyote attacked and maimed a little dog right in front of the owner while the dog was being walked in broad daylight! These coyotes have gotten larger and more brazen over the years, Scary!


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## garrettsmom (May 15, 2006)

Rocks said:


> That is one of my biggest concerns, the fence isn't 100% reliable. As fast as Louie takes off after something the time between the warning sound and the shock or vibration would be a split second and with his focus on what he was chasing he might not even notice the sound and the shock would be almost useless. When I first got him and didn't know any better I got one of those electric bark collars that gives a mild shock to stop excess barking and when Louie saw or heard another dog, squirrel, bird, person walking etc. he barked and the collar had no effect. I returned it thinking it was defective and got another brand and still it had no effect. I have since then worked on the barking myself with Louie and got it mostly under control. But even now, when something gets his attention he is a stubborn little monster and wants to let the whole neighborhood know this is his yard and nothing should dare come near it.
> 
> Yesterday a guy came over to look at some motorcycle parts I have and he brought his Great Dane, an absolutely gorgeous black Dane female the size of a pony. Louie was losing his mind trying to get at her and she was big enough to swallow him without chewing! She was a big baby, very friendly and I fell in love with her at first sight. Louie had to be put in the house and closed in a room so we could actually talk without trying to talk over Louie's very vocal response to this dog that dared to enter his turf.
> 
> Just like when we had the garage sale. Louie was an angel the whole time until some one brought their dogs with them to shop. They actually got upset when Louie tried to go after their dogs! The worst part is when they were getting out of their car they could see Louie, they heard him barking as soon as he saw their dogs and they still brought them into the yard. I even told them that he doesn't like other dogs in the yard and yet they still kept coming. Their dogs were even smaller than Louie and I was afraid one of the dogs could get hurt so I had to hold a very squirmy Louie the whole time they were here and these people were completely oblivious to the fact that they were acting like idiots.


Rocks, my Winnie sounds like the female version of Louis-absolultely goes bonkers when another dog has the 'nerve' to approach her territory. She's OK with her peekineese 'cousins' but she's had multiple encounters with them and has finally accepted them as 'family' lol. 

The company I used for my invisible fence would come over everyday for a week and walk the perimeter with Winnie, getting her used to the boundaries and experiencing the consequence if she overstepped the beeping. We then set up mock scenarios with other dogs walking by to 'test her'. I was really surprised how quickly she learned she could only bark from a distance now. We haven't had any mishaps in the all the years we've used it. Other people will have their own opinions and make judgements, but ultimatley you know your dog and situation best so trust your instincts and do what YOU feel is right for your dog.


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## Rocks (Jul 9, 2012)

We have coyotes around here too along with deer, raccoons and various other critters since this area is a nature preserve. When I am out with Louie I am constantly watching in every direction including up for any threat. Even though a large bird of prey couldn't fly off with Louie, if they tried the talons would cause a lot of injuries. In the back yard we are going to plant a living fence, very dense bushes. I'm sill researching which bushes to use as I don't want something that I have to style with hedge clippers and also want something that stays dense all the way to the ground and grows to between 6 and 10 feet tall.


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## garrettsmom (May 15, 2006)

Rocks, that sounds like a good alternative and maybe reinforce the bottom with about 4 feet of chicken or deer wire. Even if the bushes are densely planted there always seems to be an area at the bottom where an unwanted creature can squeeze through.


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## Rocks (Jul 9, 2012)

garrettsmom said:


> Rocks, that sounds like a good alternative and maybe reinforce the bottom with about 4 feet of chicken or deer wire. Even if the bushes are densely planted there always seems to be an area at the bottom where an unwanted creature can squeeze through.


I'm waiting for the local garden center to call me back, the guy I needed to talk to was busy with a client. I was already thinking about ways to make sure nothing gets through including a small fence around the bottom. I want to keep out even stray cats from the back yard. It would also be nice to be able to let my cat enjoy a nice day in the back yard without worrying about her getting out. I know she can climb a fence which is why I'm looking into dense bushes. Plus I like the idea of something living as it helps to add oxygen to the air and as fast as we are bulldozing through forests to make new developments every little bit helps. I'm thinking of going with something with thorns to discourage animals from trying to force their way in. 

If anything ever happened to Louie I would be a mental mess. My girlfriend says when it comes to my feelings and what she calls over protectiveness she says I'm acting like a big girl, I don't care, I really love Louie and he is my best friend. I'd protect him with my life.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

For those who think that using an electric fence and 'mild' shock is not a bad thing, just try putting the collar around your neck and using it a few times. 

Here's my thinking:



Studies have proven that dogs have the reasoning ability of a 12 to 18 month old baby. Would you put a shock collar on a 12 to 18 month old baby that weighs 3 + times more than one of our Malts? Going even a step further, those that believe spanking children is a good parenting technique would agree it not appropriate to spank a 12-18 month old child. A shock collar is the equivalent of spanking.
I want a dog who is confident, inquisitive, and sometimes a bit mischievous. That is the nature that they were created to have. Sadly, correctional forms of training have caused dogs to squelch that inquisitive nature and become fearful, unsocial and in some cases just simply shut down. What happens if your little one ventures across the line to happily greet another puppy or friendly dog. Or even in a worse case scenario, a not so friendly dog. With friendly dogs (or even strangers) your fluff will start to associate new dogs, new people, and even new territory with pain. This could cause them to become fearful and perhaps even fear aggressive to new dogs, new people and new territory. In the case of a not so friendly dog, it could exacerbate that meeting if the non friendly dog is good at reading dog body language and your dog normally gives calming signals, signs of appeasement, or down right submission. What would your dog look like or act like while being shocked? The bottom line is, you need to be in control of your dog at all times and electronic fences really don't give you that.
Depending on your dogs temperament, using a shock collar could ruin your dogs temperament and cause major behavioral issues. Are you sure enough of your dog's temperament to know that using a shock collar would not do this?
Why not try a long line and a hands free belt? It's a great way to work on recalls too. :thumbsup:


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

The electric fence is not going to keep coyotes away.


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## njdrake (Apr 23, 2007)

maggieh said:


> The shock is one thing - the lack of reliability of invisible fencing is the other.
> 
> One of my co-workers has a friend who uses invisible fencing in the front yard for their shih tzu. Wednesday evening, the family was outside in the yard, playing with their dog when something caught the pup's attention - they really don't even know what she saw. She was wearing her collar and the fence was on but she charged right through it, ran into the street and was hit by a car.
> 
> ...



I had a neighbor that a similar thing happened too and they had a shih tzu. They had the invisible fence and the dog did really well with it. Susan let her out one night to potty before going to bed. As soon as the dog went out there was a loud thunder and it scared the dog so bad that she ran out of the yard. She ran for about 3 blocks and ran out of the subdivision right onto a main road. By the time Susan found her she had been hit by a car. A few months later they got a puppy but didn't use the fence again. 
I also agree about the danger of other animals coming in. The problem is it keeps the dog in the yard, lets any other animal come in and the dog has no where to go. 
I'm just not a fan of the invisible fences. If I didn't have the whole yard fenced in I'd rather just fence a small area and use it than to use the invisible fence.


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## J Smith (Dec 11, 2012)

Innotek makes a collar for "lap dogs" that has a good tone and a bad tone, as well as 4 levels of shocks. Maybe you could use that bad tone whenever he approaches the outskirts of the property, and the good tones when he's where you'd like him to be. You don't even have to use the shock! To help Blizzard differentiate between the good tone and the bad tone, I would sound the good tone and immediately give him a treat. Now when I tell him to do something and he does it, I sound the good tone and give him a treat or lots of praise. For the bad tone, whenever he jumps up on the furniture, or try to leave the area we are in, I sound the bad tone and said "no" very sternly and loudly, then make him sit. Now I just have to sound the bad tone and he stops what he's doing, and sits.

As for the electric fence... one of my friends has one, and the dog will get out, but can't get back in! The poor dog sits as close as he can to the fence and barks until they turn off the fence and bring him in.


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## Rocks (Jul 9, 2012)

With the neighbors I have here I think that our best choice is a privacy fence in the back yard. It is too bad you can't pick your neighbors because I would have liked to bring all my old neighbors here and move these "people" out. I would have loved to use another word aside from "people" so I'll let you replace that word with one of your choosing, I know what I'd call them


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