# Looking at things from a different perspective



## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

It seems that there is a group of people, who think that some well meaning replies by some very knowledgeable people have been offensive, mean and lack tact. And truthfully, sometimes people, me included, may truly be trying to help and not mean to sound unkind, but at times may be replying in a hurry. Posting truly takes time when you re-read your post several times to see how it may be interpreted by someone sitting on the other end of the screen. But please PLEASE know that for anyone here to take the time to try and help or educate is ONLY because they DO care. If they didn’t care, they wouldn’t even bother trying to help by replying.

I just had a new customer come into the store who was thrilled to see I had Maltese. She very excitedly told me she is getting a little male Maltese in a few weeks from someone in the next town over. I happen to know there is no reputable exhibitor breeder in the next town over. She does not show so that is really limiting where she is getting her sires and dams. She may be a lovely person but when you limit yourself to where you can get your sires and dams, you are asking for potential genetic health risks, Maltese that are not within the breed standard, and temperament issues. Since this lady does not have the puppy yet, I was asking her some questions. I would not have asked her these questions if she already had her puppy. I would have shared in her excitement over her new adorable puppy. But...I have seen too many heartbreaking circumstances where people come into the store with a mentally unstable puppy due to poor breeding, serious health issues due to genetics, and the very least serious issue on my own personal list, puppies that grow into adults that are way off from the breed standard. I have now had to help at least 6 different people rehome a puppy that no matter how much socialization they did, positive reinforcement classes they took, did everything within their power to help make good of a bad situation, had puppies that were so mentally unsound they were more than they could handle. The last was the most adorable supposedly Llasa Apso puppy. He ended up in a Llasa rescue who has told me that he will most likely never be adopted unless it’s with someone who is physically up to the daily work it will take to exercise him as much as he needs and do daily things to stimulate him mentally as much as he needs to help him be a happy and nice little dog. Truthfully, if the trainer who comes to the store for classes was able to take him, she would have. And he would be an awesome dog with someone like her. I grew to love this little guy since he was here for classes. And I grew to really care for the owner. When she came to me to ask for help in where to rehome him, she sobbed. I sobbed. My heart broke for her, her husband, and little Riley. She has come in several times to give me updates on Riley from his foster mom, even though I’m getting updates from them as well. She is still grieving and we both usually cry before she leaves. I have another customer who has a Maltese from a BYB in the area who has liver shunt. I was the one to help her know what tests to ask for from her vet since most vets don’t know about Protein C testing. Thankfully she has the money for the surgery. But if she didn’t, I would most likely be the one to help her place her precious girl into a rescue who would then have to pay for her surgery. And I would be crying with her for a different reason. After you have walked through very painful times with a few people because of poor breeding, you don’t want to see anyone else have to go through this. I have 3 very good customers who have mentally unsound dogs from poor breeding, all from local byb’s. They are able to work with their dogs but it is heartbreaking because they are unable to take their dogs with them to places and do the things that they had hoped to do with them. They will almost always say something to the affect that had they only known why it’s so important to go to a reputable breeder who shows, that they didn’t understand and weren’t looking for a show dog but now they get it. I feel so bad for them as they say this to me while looking at my 2 babies. And I can share in their pain. My Zoe is from a local BYB and I can’t take her with me to very many places. And that’s why she’s not at the store with me. I first hand know the pain and disappointment of having a dog with behavioral issues that are based in unsound temperament due to poor breeding. It’s heartbreaking for me because I see how special Zoe really is at home, but no one else does.

So back to my questions that I asked this lady. I asked her what type of health guarantee does this breeder offer. She knows she does offer one, but can’t remember for sure what it is. So I tell her to make sure it’s 1 to 2 years against genetic health issues. I also ask what type of genetic health testing this breeder does on her sires and dams. This she does not know but says she’s been breeding for over 30 years so she’s very experienced. To me, this makes it even more frightening because again, where is she getting her sires and dams? Certainly not from reputable show breeders. This breeder may truly be doing everything correct and the only thing she isn’t doing is showing. But again…where is she getting her sires and dams from? How can she be checking back 3-6 generations for genetic health issues? As I was processing this all in my mind, I suggested that she may want to ask the breeder to bile acid test the puppy prior to her getting him, but it would mean she would need to wait another month since they need to be 4 months for an accurate BAT. I could tell I was beginning to offend this lady and for that I’m truly sorry. That was not my intent. My intent was to make sure she gets the perfect puppy and does not have to experience some of the heart wrenching situations that I have witnessed and walked through with people. I invited her to join SM and I hope she does. I hope she reads this and understands I was truly thinking of her and wanting the best for her when I asked her those questions. Often people perceive me and other well meaning people on this forum as dog ‘snobs’. I’ve been here long enough to realize there are no dog ‘snobs’ here. Only people who care enough about other people and the precious Maltese to ask questions and try to educate. If I were truly a snob, a mean and uncaring person, I wouldn’t say a thing but simply try to make a sale since I’m a store owner as opposed to possibly upsetting a potential customer. This holds true for both my brick and mortar store and my web store. And the same for anyone who cares enough to take the time to sit down and reply to a post that may not be a fun, witty, warm & fuzzy type of reply. 

Thanks for allowing me to voice my point of view on this subject.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

:goodpost::goodpost:

Crystal -- excellent post and very well written. I think most of us, from time to time, have had conversations with friends, family, co-workers, etc. that are getting a new fluff, and have encouraged them to go to a reputable show breeder. Their response so often is "but I don't plan on showing". And you begin to explain. Some get it, but a lot still end up at a BYB or Puppy Mill or Pet Store, and it breaks your heart when the things that you predicted might/will happen do happen.

After breeding/showing Lhasas for years, I knew that I wasn't going to bred/show Maltese, but I also knew that I would purchase my Maltese from a reputable show breeder (Lacie). With Tilly, I knew that she was a rescue and the possibility of health issues, behavioral issues, etc. but was willing to take that on and went into it with my eyes open. And, of course, Secret is a retired champion from a reputable breeder and I also knew what I was getting with her.

Sometimes you just want to scream at the person getting the new fluff and say, 'WHY WON'T YOU LISTEN!!!! WHY WON'T YOU LEARN FROM MY EXPERTISE AND EXPERIENCE." Sadly many never will. :smilie_tischkante::smilie_tischkante: And so BYBs, Puppy Mills, Pet Stores continue to flourish:w00t:.


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

I need to run out of the house for the evening now (I'm already late), but gotta type quick to say that the malts just asked me to tell you that they *KNOW* for sure your good intentions....of course, I believe them. It is enough that I saw it through out many examples before :wub: 

I am also certain that many others know that too 

hugs
Kat


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

and that is why I love you Crystal. . . even if we have never met in person---YET.


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## RudyRoo (Jun 24, 2011)

:goodpost: I know this information is hard for some people to handle. It might feel as if someone is "raining on their parade" a little, but there are so many people that have the best of intentions and truly just don't know or understand the risks of BYB (or worst, pet shops). I can say this because I WAS one of those people. I had always planned on adopting, but before I did, and before I joined SM, I had no idea of the dangers involved with not knowing the dogs lineage. I am guilty of looking at the adorable "breeder" websites filled with pictures of tiny furbabies and words like "tea cup" "miniature" "toy babies." I had no idea! I can understand how someone could be somewhat offended when another offers their opinions regarding their puppy search, and I can completely understand how easy it is to fall in love with a puppy, and how that instant love can turn our brains into mush and cloud our thinking! In that regard, I also want to add that there should be _no shame in someone who has already gone through with a puppy purchase from a BYB or Pet Shop if they really didn't know the risk and were mislead_. We all have to start learning somewhere, right? I don't think it is anyone's intention to make anybody feel guilty for decisions that have already been made. Had I not joined SM, and had I not been lucky enough to finally have been accepted for adoption, then there is a very good chance I might have done the same! We love our babies no matter where they came from, but now that I truly understand the risks involved, I too have made it a priority to educate others and hope they take the information to make an informed decision. I appreciate your view, I appreciate the honesty of SM members, and I appreciate your love for dogs and the breed!


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

Excellent post Crystal!

I agree 100% with you. 

Before getting Milo I very almost bought a puppy from a BYB - but luckily someone else got a deposit in before I did, so the puppy went to them. 
I knew about mills and that they were bad but I thought people breeding their pets was okay! 
I am incredibly lucky that by chance I went to a show breeder and got Milo from her but if I did end up getting the 1st puppy from the BYB I would have wanted someone to explain to me that it was a bad idea.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Leigh -- I agree that we should be trying to help educate FUTURE buyers and not try to make someone that already has their fluff feel bad about where he/she came from. Most people don't really understand the different types of breeders and just fall in love with a puppy. Once they have the puppy it would truly be unkind to tell them that they were wrong to get the fluff or that they may have lots of problems with the fluffs. I know that isn't what Crystal was doing or saying, but just had to clarify my position.


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## Johita (Jul 10, 2009)

Thank you for posting this Crystal. I hope this helps others understand the intentions of you and other well-meaning posters.


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

Orla said:


> Excellent post Crystal!
> 
> I agree 100% with you.
> 
> ...


Also, I have experienced the problems with bad breeding with my rescue, Roxy. Thankfully so far(she's almost 5) she has had no major health issues but she has pretty bad mental problems  I can't bring her anywhere, which was awful because I tried so many times and I'd end up going home and crying in the car! But still, I wouldn't swap her for the nicest show maltese in the world 

I know people would want to be spared that - especially with health issues


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## KAG (Jun 1, 2006)

This is one reason why I love you Crystal.
xoxoxoxoxooxoxo


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## RudyRoo (Jun 24, 2011)

Lacie's Mom said:


> Leigh -- I agree that we should be trying to help educate FUTURE buyers and not try to make someone that already has their fluff feel bad about where he/she came from. Most people don't really understand the different types of breeders and just fall in love with a puppy. Once they have the puppy it would truly be unkind to tell them that they were wrong to get the fluff or that they may have lots of problems with the fluffs. I know that isn't what Crystal was doing or saying, but just had to clarify my position.


Yep, I wholeheartedly agree that Crystal was not trying to make anyone feel bad at all. That was just my 2cents because I can imagine that it might be intimidating for new SM'ers (like myself) or future SM'ers to admit to where they got their babies. But one thing for certain about SM members...we truly love all of the fluffs on here no matter what their history is!


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## Deborah (Jan 8, 2006)

I agree 100% with you. A lot of people really know little about the breed and especially about the breeding.
I have never read one word from you that was mean. I also feel that if someone comes to this site to ask a question it should be answered honestly, not what we think they want to hear. If you don't want an honest answer then for heavens sake don't ask the question.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Deborah said:


> I agree 100% with you. A lot of people really know little about the breed and especially about the breeding.
> I have never read one word from you that was mean. *I also feel that if someone comes to this site to ask a question it should be answered honestly, not what we think they want to hear. If you don't want an honest answer then for heavens sake don't ask the question*.


Amen, Deborah!

Great thoughtful and thought provoking post, Crystal.:wub:


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Crystal, you are a very kind and caring person. I respect you for trying to help others see the light when it comes to BYB, etc. I respect your honesty. And, like so many others ... I love you, too.:wub: My goodness ... in no way are you a *snob* ... you care and put a lot of thought and effort into your posts ... in order to try and help others. I thank you so much for that.:tender:


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## John Holmes (Jul 22, 2011)

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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Crystal, that was a great post and I can say from personal experience that I hope you continue educating people as best you can! 
My Missy came from a home where they were BYB of sorts.... (they did not breed a reg basis, just a one time thing.... but BYB just the same) "I" was ignorant about the pitfalls of this and in fact thought it was an 'ideal' situation. ( pups raised within the house...saw both of Missy's parents who were well cared for and they and pups were well loved, raised with kids and family environment etc.) I only wanted a 'pet' and not concerned about 'perfection' for showing. I think back and with what I know now realize how foolish I was!

Not to say I didn't adore my little girl and still miss her even after 6 years of her passing...BUT the litany of health issues she had were costly both financially ( thousands upon thousands upon thousands of $$$ spent to help her with these health problems) It wasn't just the money it was seeing her have one thing after another that had to be dealt with! 

So keep doing what you're doing and hopefully at least 'some' will heed your advise. I tell everyone I get a chance and tell them if they can't go to reputable breeder than get a rescue! That there are so many wonderful little dogs in rescue that would make fantastic pets. Yes, there might be 'issues' but no more so than the chance they take with BYB.


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