# I hope no one gets mad at me



## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

This is what is swirling in my mind.

In reference to the beautiful baby show dogs. I've never been to a show, and I new a lot of care went into these special babies...but I didn't realize how much.

I didn't realize they had to be wrapped....and straight ironed....and sometimes are not with their owners...but with a handler, who I am sure loves them as well.

And then after the precious jewels do all their spectacular showing...being wrapped...sometimes with handlers.....they are then retired....are these the same babies, that sometimes are rehomed by the show breeders? Are sometimes, these the babies, that are bred?

This is all quite new to me, and I am just trying to understand.


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## Harley & Dakotas Mum (Jun 11, 2005)

Christine, you have such a wonderful heartl :grouphug: 

I think its a big YES to all of your wonderings - yes, they are wrapped, yes, they are sometimes ironed, yes, they are sometimes placed with a handler, and yes, they are sometimes retired. In reality, some owners also keep a malt crated for a lot of the time, to protect the coat. 

I spoke to Dakota's breeder a little while ago, and he said to me, about Dakota's father (a Ch), "I've done it, I chopped his top knot off!! He is now retired from showing, he can finally be a dog, and get out of a crate!"

It all contributes to making the breed so awesome!!!


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

It's a different mindset, that is for sure.

They don't always have to be wrapped. I've grown out three show coats and I've only used wraps on one, and that is just a few where Chowder pees on his coat. But they do require a lot of attention to the coat, if you would like to do well in the ring. 

Everybody does it differently. For the most part, the dogs love it and if you've never seen a maltese strut their stuff in the ring, you can't really appreciate how much they like showing. Please don't get too worked up over it. As I said, it's a different mindset.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Thanks guys...I really appreciate the explanation :grouphug: It's an amazing world...and if I do get to a show, I wanted to be able to explain to my husband...who gives me heartache about Mia having a bow.

I've seen shows on TV...and Stacy you are right...I see the little guys....strutting their stuff so proudly.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

Christine,

I had lots of similar questions. I got my first Maltese when I was 18 (nearly 18 years ago). I am just recently learning the answer to many of the questions you asked. The Maltese show world was always somewhat bizzare to me. My first Maltese, Cloud, was 10 when I went to my first dog show. I went to the specialty to participate in the rescue parade. Frankly, even though I thought all the show babies were gorgeous what really caught my attention was the obedience dogs. I came home and signed up for obedience classes and took my Cloud to his CD title in obedience. It was going to shows to show in obedience that made me become interested in the conformation ring. I also met a lot of people who showed their dogs and I learned more about them. Before that I thought they were all a little crazy. :wacko1: Now, I am one of those crazy people who has a show Maltese. 

The original purpose of dog shows was to evaluate breeding stock and frankly that is still what many people show their dogs to do. But knowing many breeders, especially show breeders now it is much more than that. These dogs are very loved and the many of these show breeders love the "breed" as well as the individual dogs. They are trying to preserve a legacy and a future for the "breed." Of course, for some people it is just about winning and for some it is even about money (though it is rare that show breeders make money, most are VERY lucky if they can break even). But I have been impressed to find that for most people it really is about the love of the dogs. 

The dogs do put up with an awful lot. Especially Maltese, have to endure a lot of grooming. My Cadeau though seems to love the bonding time with me when we brush and primp. I think he kinda feels like he is getting his Spa treatment or something. He tends to flirt with me while he is on the table and part of why it takes us so long to groom is we take breaks so he can give me kisses and cuddles. Most show dogs come to see grooming time as a special time with their handlers. 

Yes, most of the time once a dog completes his/her championship he/she is bred. Again, this goes back to the origins of the dog show. A champion quality dog has passed a key test in proving that he should be used for breeding. There are other important tests. These dogs should also be evaluated for health. 

Show breeders do often retire their dogs. Often these are the former champions. Sometimes they will retire a dog that finished in the show ring, but for whatever reason is not incorporated into a breeding program. More often they will retire the dogs who have been bred. Females especially usually retire between 4-6 years of age. In puppy mills or BYBs they do not retire their girls so young. But the show breeder wants to give their girls a rest. Many of the show breeders do keep their dogs for life, but the ones who do not it is often out of a desire to make sure that these precious dogs get to live a pampered retirement where they can have more individual attention. If a show breeder keeps all the dogs they show/breed often they will come to a point where they will have to stop showing/breeding or they will run the risk of not being able to properly give their dogs attention. 

As far as sending the dogs off with handlers. I have to say I have let Cadeau go with a handler a couple of times for just over a weekend, and I let his breeder take him to the specialty. I missed him like crazy. I don't know how other people do that, but often these handlers to build beautiful bonds with the dogs they handle. Good handlers have to have a good relationship with the dogs or the dogs will not show well. 

I hope I haven't written too much. And I hope this helped answer some of your questions. Please feel free to ask. As I say, I have been around this breed for a long time and I am just learning about this world of dog shows. It still seems mysterious to me at times. :blink:


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

QUOTE (CloudClan @ Feb 7 2009, 03:22 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721072


> Christine,
> 
> I had lots of similar questions. I got my first Maltese when I was 18 (nearly 18 years ago). I am just recently learning the answer to many of the questions you asked. The Maltese show world was always somewhat bizzare to me. My first Maltese, Cloud, was 10 when I went to my first dog show. I went to the specialty to participate in the rescue parade. Frankly, even though I thought all the show babies were gorgeous what really caught my attention was the obedience dogs. I came home and signed up for obedience classes and took my Cloud to his CD title in obedience. It was going to shows to show in obedience that made me become interested in the conformation ring. I also met a lot of people who showed their dogs and I learned more about them. Before that I thought they were all a little crazy. :wacko1: Now, I am one of those crazy people who has a show Maltese.
> 
> ...



WoW Carina, :grouphug: thank you soooooooo much. I just adore you :grouphug: Thank you for being so kind, with my inquisitive mind LOL. But it made me feel better, that others ask the same questions.

I have no doubt these babies are loved...I think it's the love of their babies, and the breed that seems to inspire the breeders to take on this undertaking.

I do know, that when Mia does have a little topnot...she does seem to strut a little more prouder...although, I know it's no comparison 

I did always think that's why that some of the retirees are rehomed...otherwise, I guess the breeders who have to many fur-babies, and would much rather have the retiree, go to a very loving home, where it can get all the attention.

Once again, Carina, thank you so much....and thanks to everyone....I'm going to become so smart..I won't be able to stand myself. :dancing banana: :dancing banana:


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

As the others have already said the answer to all of your questions is a great big YES! However, as Stacy said not all coats have to be wrapped and oiled. The sad part about this is the breeders who do not raise their show kids under foot. I hate to hear of the ones who force their kids to live in a kennel/crate in order to protect the coat. Some breeders have made their kennel names and don't pay as much attention to bettering the breed. They keep a finished male or two around and breed their females just to sell pups. Then they occasionally send another male to the handler so they have a young male to carry on the line.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

QUOTE (Sassy's mommy @ Feb 7 2009, 08:47 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721148


> As the others have already said the answer to all of your questions is a great big YES! However, as Stacy said not all coats have to be wrapped and oiled. The sad part about this is the breeders who do not raise their show kids under foot. I hate to hear of the ones who force their kids to live in a kennel/crate in order to protect the coat. Some breeders have made their kennel names and don't pay as much attention to bettering the breed. They keep a finished male or two around and breed their females just to sell pups. Then they occasionally send another male to the handler so they have a young male to carry on the line.[/B]



Pat, I had to read this several times. Not because the way you wrote it...trust me :grouphug: In school, when learning a new subject, I would have to read things several times before I would get it. I had to read the part about keeping a finished male....just to sell pups..several times...and then send another male out to a hanlder...but then I finally understood what you were saying.

And I didn't know that some keep it in a crate, just to keep their coat clean . :smcry: 

Thanks for sharing.


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

QUOTE (Allheart @ Feb 7 2009, 10:19 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721188


> QUOTE (Sassy's mommy @ Feb 7 2009, 08:47 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721148





> As the others have already said the answer to all of your questions is a great big YES! However, as Stacy said not all coats have to be wrapped and oiled. The sad part about this is the breeders who do not raise their show kids under foot. I hate to hear of the ones who force their kids to live in a kennel/crate in order to protect the coat. Some breeders have made their kennel names and don't pay as much attention to bettering the breed. They keep a finished male or two around and breed their females just to sell pups. Then they occasionally send another male to the handler so they have a young male to carry on the line.[/B]



Pat, I had to read this several times. Not because the way you wrote it...trust me :grouphug: In school, when learning a new subject, I would have to read things several times before I would get it. I had to read the part about keeping a finished male....just to sell pups..several times...and then send another male out to a hanlder...but then I finally understood what you were saying.

And I didn't know that some keep it in a crate, just to keep their coat clean  . :smcry: 

Thanks for sharing.
[/B][/QUOTE]

No the crate/kennel thing isn't about keeping the coat clean it is to protect the coat from damamge. I think when they have many dogs and the dogs want to play and pull at each others hair (or wrappers) then they keep them separated to protect the coat from breakage. I don't like it either.

I was at a show once and I had Sassy with me never thinking about the handlers eyeing her. I had a owner/handler approach me and ooh and ahhh over Sassy's coat. She was green with envy because she had to wrap her little Malt's coat to keep it nice and protect from breakage. It is too bad that "all" of the little Malts can't just be pets as well as show kids. Personally, if I had to oil and wrap Sassy to keep her hair long she would be in a puppy cut. 

Disclaimer**I do not mean that "ALL" show people do this to their dogs. The OP asked questions and this is in response to a particular question she asked. 

I gots da wong hair and mommy wears a puppy cut. ~Sassy


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (Sassy's mommy @ Feb 7 2009, 11:03 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721192


> QUOTE (Allheart @ Feb 7 2009, 10:19 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721188





> QUOTE (Sassy's mommy @ Feb 7 2009, 08:47 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721148





> As the others have already said the answer to all of your questions is a great big YES! However, as Stacy said not all coats have to be wrapped and oiled. The sad part about this is the breeders who do not raise their show kids under foot. I hate to hear of the ones who force their kids to live in a kennel/crate in order to protect the coat. Some breeders have made their kennel names and don't pay as much attention to bettering the breed. They keep a finished male or two around and breed their females just to sell pups. Then they occasionally send another male to the handler so they have a young male to carry on the line.[/B]



Pat, I had to read this several times. Not because the way you wrote it...trust me :grouphug: In school, when learning a new subject, I would have to read things several times before I would get it. I had to read the part about keeping a finished male....just to sell pups..several times...and then send another male out to a hanlder...but then I finally understood what you were saying.

And I didn't know that some keep it in a crate, just to keep their coat clean  . :smcry: 

Thanks for sharing.
[/B][/QUOTE]

No the crate/kennel thing isn't about keeping the coat clean it is to protect the coat from damamge. I think when they have many dogs and the dogs want to play and pull at each others hair (or wrappers) then they keep them separated to protect the coat from breakage. I don't like it either.

I was at a show once and I had Sassy with me never thinking about the handlers eyeing her. I had a owner/handler approach me and ooh and ahhh over Sassy's coat. She was green with envy because she had to wrap her little Malt's coat to keep it nice and protect from breakage. It is too bad that "all" of the little Malts can't just be pets as well as show kids. Personally, if I had to oil and wrap Sassy to keep her hair long she would be in a puppy cut. 

Disclaimer**I do not mean that "ALL" show people do this to their dogs. The OP asked questions and this is in response to a particular question she asked. 

I gots da wong hair and mommy wears a puppy cut. ~Sassy
[/B][/QUOTE]

Sassy's mommy, you don't wrap Sassy's hair at all? How do you keep it looking so perfect LOL
And is it true that carpet damages a malt's coat?


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I didn't know that some breeders crate some of their dogs to keep their coat nice for show. :new_shocked:


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## shannonb (Feb 4, 2008)

Carina & Pat - :thumbsup: excellent posts. 

Depending on the living situation of the dogs (ie in a kennel environment or in a home) potential show dogs can get out to play with other dogs, they just have to have calmer companions LOL. 
If you have some really crazy hair pulling puppies, you let them out to play at a different time than the sweeter calmer pups who can play with the show prospects. It is just about fulltime supervising, and sadly some breeders don't have or take the time to supervise all puppy play times. 

Another REALLY interesting thing I learned after seeing my MIL get slightly older dogs is that breeders who keep their show dogs kenneled typically have very thin black pigment around their dog's eyes, because of the lack of sun. 

I am a wee-bit petty in the sense that I look for that thick black pigment around the eyes when meeting a new show dog, because it tells me a little bit about how they live. Of course, some dogs have naturally very thin pigment lines around the eyes too, but lack of exposure to the outside can make a difference. I like the dogs who have really thick nice pigment in general, I think it makes their eyes look bigger. 




QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Feb 7 2009, 11:46 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721209


> I didn't know that some breeders crate some of their dogs to keep their coat nice for show. :new_shocked:[/B]


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Carina's post was great!

Many times dogs are wrapped so they can run around. Getting proper exercise is important for a show dog to be in good condition.


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Feb 7 2009, 11:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721208


> Sassy's mommy, you don't wrap Sassy's hair at all? How do you keep it looking so perfect LOL
> And is it true that carpet damages a malt's coat?[/B]


No I do NOT wrap Sassy's hair and it has never been wrapped. Sassy just has great coat genes. I think her hair grows hair :HistericalSmiley: Sassy has free run of the house. We have carpets, hardwoods, and ceramic tile floors. She makes herself at home wherever she likes regardless of the floor. Yes, I am sure carpets can damage the hair as it drags across it but then again that is life. Right now little Miss Sassy is laying on our fireplace hearth which is brick but I am not worried....she has great hair. It feels almost human, it isn't that thin no texture hair. 

**I do use a paper wrap on Sassy's top knot, but that is just to hold the top knot hairs in place....no other reason.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Great input and information everyone...and I defintely did realize...it's only some...and not all...and now it does make sense, to wrap the babies hair..so it can romp and play.


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## Gemma (Jan 19, 2006)

how can anybody get mad at you :grouphug: I always wonder too and had the same questions.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

QUOTE (Sparkey @ Feb 7 2009, 01:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721287


> how can anybody get mad at you :grouphug: I always wonder too and had the same questions.[/B]



Awww thank you :grouphug: feels good to not be alone. And everyone was so helpful and giving of their information.

Thank you again :grouphug:


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

When I was breeding, I had what I called "forever dogs". These were the babies that would always be mine -- not sold. Yes, when they were being shown, they were with their handlers most of the time and I would fly in to see them. Also, when they would come to my part of the country, they would stay at my house (as would their handler).

They seemed to always know that they belonged to me, but they loved showing and knew that they were special.

Then there were others I bred that would easily become champions and then live at my house have have 1 or 2 litters and then I would find "forever homes" for them. They were always loved, but they did move on. I'm still in contact with all of the people that provided "forever homes" for these special babies. I still get pictures and news from them all the time.

Of course, from time to time I would have a puppy that I didn't think would be a good show candidate and they would be placed as a pet while still a young puppy. I also have remained in contact with their owners.

In all, I had 6 "forever dogs" that were with me until they went to the Bridge. They all lived to be 16-17 so it was a long time with me. They did love their handlers, and would often see him/her after they had retired from the ring and they always remember them and loved them, but they knew that my house was their real home.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

QUOTE (Lacie's Mom @ Feb 7 2009, 11:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721322


> When I was breeding, I had what I called "forever dogs". These were the babies that would always be mine -- not sold. Yes, when they were being shown, they were with their handlers most of the time and I would fly in to see them. Also, when they would come to my part of the country, they would stay at my house (as would their handler).
> 
> They seemed to always know that they belonged to me, but they loved showing and knew that they were special.
> 
> ...


Lynn that is the way it should be.  Probably with companion breeds like ours that is more often the case, or at least I like to hope so. I have seen other breeds at some shows being treated like a "product" or livestock. You wonder what their life is like when not showing. I watched a handler force feed a Fox Terrier in the grooming building. Great globs of canned food shoved down his throat and forcefully holding his mouth shut until he managed to swallow.

About 3 years ago at a local kennel club show I saw a Maltese handler grooming her dog and obviously in a bad mood. She was shoving the poor little Malt all over the table. It was frightened of her and threw up. That made her even madder and I couldn't watch any more. I mostly stay away from the grooming building now. B) 

I also saw a Yorkie at ringside at a big Portland show throwing up and acting like it was too sick to stand. When the time came they took it in the ring anyway. There is good and evil in any situation. Some people shouldn't be allow to have kids or animals. :angry:


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

Hannah being a retiree, I've always wondered about that too. I know the basics but not much more. Hannah is a peach though & is perfectly adjusted.I couldn't ask for a sweeter or better behaved little girl.


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

It IS a different mindset, for sure.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (MissMelanie @ Feb 7 2009, 03:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721432


> It IS a different mindset, for sure.[/B]


and one that takes getting used to.


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Feb 7 2009, 05:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721449


> QUOTE (MissMelanie @ Feb 7 2009, 03:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721432





> It IS a different mindset, for sure.[/B]


and one that takes getting used to.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I don't think I will ever get used to the mind set of Malts being thought of as livestock.


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Feb 7 2009, 04:31 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721408


> QUOTE (Lacie's Mom @ Feb 7 2009, 11:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721322





> When I was breeding, I had what I called "forever dogs". These were the babies that would always be mine -- not sold. Yes, when they were being shown, they were with their handlers most of the time and I would fly in to see them. Also, when they would come to my part of the country, they would stay at my house (as would their handler).
> 
> They seemed to always know that they belonged to me, but they loved showing and knew that they were special.
> 
> ...


Lynn that is the way it should be.  Probably with companion breeds like ours that is more often the case, or at least I like to hope so. I have seen other breeds at some shows being treated like a "product" or livestock. You wonder what their life is like when not showing. I watched a handler force feed a Fox Terrier in the grooming building. Great globs of canned food shoved down his throat and forcefully holding his mouth shut until he managed to swallow.

About 3 years ago at a local kennel club show I saw a Maltese handler grooming her dog and obviously in a bad mood. She was shoving the poor little Malt all over the table. It was frightened of her and threw up. That made her even madder and I couldn't watch any more. I mostly stay away from the grooming building now. B) 

I also saw a Yorkie at ringside at a big Portland show throwing up and acting like it was too sick to stand. When the time came they took it in the ring anyway. There is good and evil in any situation. Some people shouldn't be allow to have kids or animals. :angry: 
[/B][/QUOTE]

Dee it is a good thing I didn't see someone pushing a little Malt across the table and making it so upset it vomited. I would have approached the handler and said something. Believe me, someone would have gotten attention. I do not stand for abuse....physical nor mental.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Some of this is very sad :smcry: :smcry: And a part of me, just a small part, is a little sorry I asked, but I thought it better then to wonder. It's not something, as a pet Mommy, that I really even knew much about.

I'm hoping that the force feeding issue...(oh god just thinking about that , and the vommitting issue, are very rare occurances...and I think we all agree it shouldn't happen at all.

Group hug to everyone :grouphug:


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (Sassy's mommy @ Feb 7 2009, 05:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721455


> QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Feb 7 2009, 04:31 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721408





> QUOTE (Lacie's Mom @ Feb 7 2009, 11:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721322





> When I was breeding, I had what I called "forever dogs". These were the babies that would always be mine -- not sold. Yes, when they were being shown, they were with their handlers most of the time and I would fly in to see them. Also, when they would come to my part of the country, they would stay at my house (as would their handler).
> 
> They seemed to always know that they belonged to me, but they loved showing and knew that they were special.
> 
> ...


Lynn that is the way it should be.  Probably with companion breeds like ours that is more often the case, or at least I like to hope so. I have seen other breeds at some shows being treated like a "product" or livestock. You wonder what their life is like when not showing. I watched a handler force feed a Fox Terrier in the grooming building. Great globs of canned food shoved down his throat and forcefully holding his mouth shut until he managed to swallow.

About 3 years ago at a local kennel club show I saw a Maltese handler grooming her dog and obviously in a bad mood. She was shoving the poor little Malt all over the table. It was frightened of her and threw up. That made her even madder and I couldn't watch any more. I mostly stay away from the grooming building now. B) 

I also saw a Yorkie at ringside at a big Portland show throwing up and acting like it was too sick to stand. When the time came they took it in the ring anyway. There is good and evil in any situation. Some people shouldn't be allow to have kids or animals. :angry: 
[/B][/QUOTE]

Dee it is a good thing I didn't see someone pushing a little Malt across the table and making it so upset it vomited. I would have approached the handler and said something. Believe me, someone would have gotten attention. I do not stand for abuse....physical nor mental.
[/B][/QUOTE]

You wouldn't be the only one!


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

The dogs that I showed and most especially the ones that had a long show career as a Special all loved to show -- they loved being in the limelight, loved being groomed, loved all the attention. They were "regular dogs" during the week and STARS on the weekends. LOL

My dogs always ate well while on a show circuit. They never had to be force fed -- in fact, just the opposite -- they sometimes ate too well. They were never nervous or sick at shows. And I knew my handlers very well. I would have never tolerated a handler that mistreated a dog. 

I have, however, seen others that had to be force fed and appeared unhappy at shows -- not often, but occassionally and I always wondered -- why bother. I wouldn't have ever put my furbabies through something they didn't enjoy.

I remember a gorgeous girl I once had -- much prettier than many of my champions. She was terrified of the show ring and hated -- I mean, she hated going. Could I have put a championship on her -- maybe, but it just wasn't worth it. She was miserable at the shows, so after 2, I immediately placed her as a pet with a wonderful widowed grandmother in Helena, Mt.

The mother of my huge Special (the one that was Pedigree Dog of the Year) -- well the mother didn't enjoy showing and never became a champion. She was, however, one of my "forever dogs". She produced one litter of 3 for me. Didn't like being a mother and was never bred again. The litter that she produced all became champions. Gambler was #1 Lhasa for 4 years and won many, many, many honors. Her daughter, Chen Chen, became a champion, and is still the all time top producing Lhasa Bitch, and her other son Handsome became a champion and was then placed with a wonderful home in Southern California.

The mother, Shorty, was my baby girl. She was my soulmate. What did she win? Not ribbons or notereity in the ring -- she won my heart and the right to sleep on my pillow and kick me in the head every night. She won the right to eat bites whatever I was eating. She won the right to go to the office with me. She won my everlasting love and she will always be in my heart. She was my most special baby.

IMO, a dog has to be "into" the show scene and truely enjoy it or there isn't any point into showing him/her.


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## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

Christine, this is a great thread!!! Thank you for posting it. I have to agree, if I ever saw someone abusing an animal no matter what, I too would say something. I also agree that the dog has to be into it and having fun.


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## 08chrissy08 (Sep 19, 2008)

QUOTE (Lacie's Mom @ Feb 7 2009, 07:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721643


> I remember a gorgeous girl I once had -- much prettier than many of my champions. She was terrified of the show ring and hated -- I mean, she hated going. Could I have put a championship on her -- maybe, but it just wasn't worth it. She was miserable at the shows, so after 2, I immediately placed her as a pet with a wonderful widowed grandmother in Helena, Mt.[/B]



My first malt was like that. He hated the show ring, so he was retired at a very young age. I just don't think it's right to make them go through something that scares them or makes them miserable. And i love seeing the ones that enjoy it! You can always tell which are having fun out there.


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## pdbailly (Mar 21, 2008)

I am very lucky to have been able to add a retired Ch with my two pets. Breeders can't always keep all of their dogs and need to find homes for them that they can get more attention. It's not that the breeders don't love these dogs, in fact they love them enough to know what they need. My little girl has adjusted well.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

QUOTE (SicilianRose @ Feb 8 2009, 12:08 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721706


> Christine, this is a great thread!!! Thank you for posting it. I have to agree, if I ever saw someone abusing an animal no matter what, I too would say something. I also agree that the dog has to be into it and having fun.[/B]


Thank you, from me too, Christine. I, like you, wanted to ask questions, but, was hesitant ... because I didn't want to come across in the wrong way. 

And, thank you ... to all of the breeders here who gave such excellent feedback.

I also feel the same way as Debbie. I feel as though the dogs have to enjoy being in the shows and having fun. And, I would have no problem speaking up to someone who was abusing a dog. I think it is so sad to hear of dogs getting sick from the stress of being in a show and the grooming process. I know our breeders here are not like that at all.


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## GreenFuzzer (Jun 16, 2007)

I too am thankful this thread was started. I have learned a lot. Unfortunately it also has me outrageously sick and disgusted to think we try to promote buying a pup from a reputable breeder and yet it sounds like some, no not all thanks be, in my mind are as bad as Puppy Mills and Back Yard Breeders. I see nothing wrong with crate training and I think it is good for a dog to have a place all his own where he can go and know that people will let him be. This idea of breeding for the better of the line is wonderful but at what cost?!?!?!?! I really can't believe how devastating this is to me. I want to get another pup etc and since Gracie is a mix saved from a puppy mill I have considered getting my next from a reputable breeder. Now how will I know if this reputable breeder is one of the ones that constantly crates or force feds these precious angles. There is no way in [email protected] I want to support that breeder. Ok I'm sorry I have to stop this rant, I am sorry if I have offended anyone but I will be [email protected] to be sorry for how I feel. 

Again I am glad this thread was started it opened my eyes, in ways I don't like but educating a person only makes them stronger for that I say thank you.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

I have been in somewhat emotional agony since starting this thread. I can't express how grateful I am to all of you for trusting my heart, and knowing it was an at the moment, severe love for all fur-babies, that questions popped in my head. And since I trust this forum so much, I felt brave enough to ask, to help me sort through my questions.

It hurts me to my heart :smcry: :smcry: , to think I may have offended anyone, especially since they have become so dear to me, and I trust my heart so much, knowing that in no way, should all be painted with the same brush. I guess it's like there are good pet Mommies and Daddies, and those who should never own the precious jewels.

Bless those show breeders, who shine and only do the very best for and by your fur-babies....may you continue to lead the way as to the way it should be done...

I had no idea some of these other things even exsisted. :smcry: :smcry: 

Greenfuzzer :grouphug: ...I completely understand your concerns...and how you feel :grouphug: :grouphug:


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## kathym (Aug 5, 2006)

THIS IS A SUBJECT THAT I HAVE OFTEN THOUGHT ABOUT .THANK YOU CRISTINE FOR ASKING THESE QUESTIONS .


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## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

First, Thank You Christine for asking this question. I am very new to the maltese world and knew nothing about showing/breeding before this thread so I greatly appreciate it being asked.

Second, Thank You to everyone who answered honestly and openly. This is what I am loving about this forum is that we are allowed to have differences of opinions without anything being taken personally (when that was not the intention). Good breeders are necessary and they have so much information to share that can educate the rest of us. I know I appreciate talking to someone with first hand experience much more than trying to figure it out on my own and potentially being misinformed. I also appreciate very much all the hard work it takes to make your dogs look beautiful and be healthy on the inside and out - you do a world of good for the breed 

Third, as with everything I am sure there are bad breeders out there and their bad practices should not be considered the norm and we should all do our best to help stop their bad behavior.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

I hate to mention this -- but -- some of the "bad" people that are at shows (especially in the mid-west) are puppymills who have entered a dog just to get a ribbon and a picture taken. Then when some unsuspecting innocent goes to buy one of the puppymill furbabies -- they are told that he/she was bred from a "Show Dog" and if questioned, they'll even produce a picture.

99.9% of all Show Dogs have WONDERFUL lives. They truly enjoy showing, enjoy the attention they receive, enjoy travelling and being with their handlers. They're treated like "STARS". Yes -- they are sometimes crated -- but they are out a lot too. If not, how would they ever have the stamina to compete in the shows. They have to have well-toned muscles which doesn't come about from staying in a crate.

Please don't think that Show Dogs are mistreated because they aren't. Most dogs don't have to be force feed although a few do. Think about the Maltese at your house. How many times have you said that they were "picky" eaters? So, what if you were at a show and they decided to be "picky"? They need calories for energy, and you often only have the food you brought with you. You would have to force feed them to get the calories into them.

AKC will fine, suspend and eject anyone that is seen to be "abusing" a dog. This is NOT tolerated.

I just don't want anyone to get the wrong impression of shows or those that breed show dogs.

Also -- the majority of show breeders are truly into breeding to better the breed. We all know that we can only keep so many dogs at 1 time and that once a dog is finished in the show ring he or she is going to be a PET -- either at the breeders home or with a forever home. That's why it is not only important to breed beautiful dogs, but also to breed dogs that are healthy and have good temperments.

I think that some of you are judging show breeders incorrectly and don't truly have enough info to go on to accurately form an honest opinion. A few words here and there in a thread, doesn't, by any means explain what show dogs, showing dogs, breeding show dogs, etc. is all about.

The care and love given by most breeders and also by most handlers is beyond compare.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (Lacie's Mom @ Feb 9 2009, 05:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=722858


> I hate to mention this -- but -- some of the "bad" people that are at shows (especially in the mid-west) are puppymills who have entered a dog just to get a ribbon and a picture taken. Then when some unsuspecting innocent goes to buy one of the puppymill furbabies -- they are told that he/she was bred from a "Show Dog" and if questioned, they'll even produce a picture.
> 
> 99.9% of all Show Dogs have WONDERFUL lives. They truly enjoy showing, enjoy the attention they receive, enjoy travelling and being with their handlers. They're treated like "STARS". Yes -- they are sometimes crated -- but they are out a lot too. If not, how would they ever have the stamina to compete in the shows. They have to have well-toned muscles which doesn't come about from staying in a crate.
> 
> ...


Thank you for saying what I was thinking. 

Being compared to puppy mills just made me cringe, I'll be honest.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Just because I have seen some things at dog shows that turned me off does not mean I think the majority or even any sizable number of people who show dogs are unkind or abusive to their animals. I am quite sure that the number is very small.

We have some loving compassionate people here on SM who love and also show their furbutts. I am not critical of any of them in any way. I think most all of us here realize that there _are_ people who consider it their _business_ and their animals are their livestock. Thank God for all the wonderful show breeders who do love their dogs like their children and strive to see that the breed has a happy healthy future. We have all those lovely people to thank for our darling furbabies we love so much.


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## GreenFuzzer (Jun 16, 2007)

QUOTE (Lacie's Mom @ Feb 9 2009, 07:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=722858


> I think that some of you are judging show breeders incorrectly and don't truly have enough info to go on to accurately form an honest opinion. A few words here and there in a thread, doesn't, by any means explain what show dogs, showing dogs, breeding show dogs, etc. is all about.[/B]


Gee does that mean there are tests out there somewhere that we can take to know when we have enough information that we are allowed to form our own personal honest opinion? Or perhaps our own personal opinion is correct when we agree with someone else? Who has the authority to say when a person has enough information to have their own thoughts and opinions? Thankfully I live in the USA and not only is it legal for me to form my own thoughts and opinions I have the freedom of speech that I can say what those opinions are. Others don't have to like my opinions and normally most people don't like my opinions because I don't sugar coat how I feel about things. For me that is a great thing because I can find out who I want to be close to by the fact that they understand we don't all have to agree, that differences of opinions are important part of life but that those differences do not make one person better, stronger, more important then another. 

Then again this is all my own personal opinion, we all know what that is worth.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

QUOTE (GreenFuzzer @ Feb 9 2009, 10:18 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723020


> QUOTE (Lacie's Mom @ Feb 9 2009, 07:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=722858





> I think that some of you are judging show breeders incorrectly and don't truly have enough info to go on to accurately form an honest opinion. A few words here and there in a thread, doesn't, by any means explain what show dogs, showing dogs, breeding show dogs, etc. is all about.[/B]


Gee does that mean there are tests out there somewhere that we can take to know when we have enough information that we are allowed to form our own personal honest opinion? Or perhaps our own personal opinion is correct when we agree with someone else? Who has the authority to say when a person has enough information to have their own thoughts and opinions? Thankfully I live in the USA and not only is it legal for me to form my own thoughts and opinions I have the freedom of speech that I can say what those opinions are. Others don't have to like my opinions and normally most people don't like my opinions because I don't sugar coat how I feel about things. For me that is a great thing because I can find out who I want to be close to by the fact that they understand we don't all have to agree, that differences of opinions are important part of life but that those differences do not make one person better, stronger, more important then another. 

Then again this is all my own personal opinion, we all know what that is worth. 

[/B][/QUOTE]


Tammy I think what Lynn is trying to say is that at first look things can look one way and they are actually not that way at all. I in no way condone animal abuse I will be the first one there standing up for those who can't. But unless one actually walks in anothers foot steps you really don't know unless you experience it for yourself. Not all show breeders keep their show dogs in cages, not all show breeders force feed their dogs, not all show breeders wrap their dogs all the time just as not all show breeders pet out their retirees but keep them as pets for themselves. Some do but not everyone should be put in that broad category. I think that is the only thing that Lynn was trying to say. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and should be able to express it I don't think Lynn was trying to supress anyones opinion. JMHO


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Maggie - that's exactly what I was trying to say.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Sorry, just a coulple more questions that popped in my head...

1) At what age does the little fur-baby become eligible to start showing? Is there an age, where they stop showing?

2) Are they bred, once they stop showing? Are they always bred....or just sometimes, depending on circumstances?

3) Do I have this right....

**They start their show career
**Then.....they are used for breeding...
**Then they are retired..and either stay with the breeder, or are adopted by a forever home?

Or is it more complicated than that?

Thanks.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

QUOTE (Allheart @ Feb 10 2009, 09:29 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723352


> Sorry, just a coulple more questions that popped in my head...
> 
> 1) At what age does the little fur-baby become eligible to start showing? Is there an age, where they stop showing?
> 
> ...


Christine, try this AKC page. It is like Dog Showing 101.  It has all that--like minimum age is 6 mo.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Feb 10 2009, 12:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723356


> QUOTE (Allheart @ Feb 10 2009, 09:29 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723352





> Sorry, just a coulple more questions that popped in my head...
> 
> 1) At what age does the little fur-baby become eligible to start showing? Is there an age, where they stop showing?
> 
> ...


Christine, try this AKC page. It is like Dog Showing 101.  It has all that--like minimum age is 6 mo.
[/B][/QUOTE]


WoW, that is a great link...thanks :grouphug: It even gives recommendations for first time spectactors...like little tips on the best way to approach a show breeder...

Great info on there...thanks again!!


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## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

See Christine, there was nothing wrong with you asking that question.  I am so happy that you did btw. It answered a lot of my questions. :ThankYou: :hugging:


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

To answer you question about what happens to the "Show Dog" after he is retired from the Show Ring -- well, it all depends. Here are the scenarios that most frequently happen:

1. If a female, she is usually breed a couple of times and then spayed and placed as a pet in a forever home.

2. If a male, he MAY be breed or he may be sold to another breeder to use as a stud dog. Of course, you can also sell a female to another breeder, but it is more common to sell a male champion to a breeder.

3. You may decide to keep the male for your own breeding program.

4. After a littler or 2 from the male, you may have him neutered and place him as a pet in a forever home.

As most breeders are "hobby breeders", i.e., they don't have large kennels per se, there is a limited number of furbabies that one can reasonably have and care for. 

When I was breeding, I had 2 males that were my pets but were also used in my own breeding programs. They would often also be used at stud to produce babies with other breeder's females.

I had 4 females -- 1 was my baby girls and she was spayed after 1 litter. Her daughter was bred by me several times and was one of my forever dogs. I also had 2 of her daughters that were forever dogs.

As you can see, the more you keep, the more closely they are usually related which means that you often have to go to another breeder that has similar bloodlines as yours so that your babies aren't too closely bred to each other.

Of these 6 dogs, they were house dogs and pets and sleep on the bed with me, etc. When I had other females in to be bred or if I had a girl of my own that was in season, I would send one or both of the boys to my mother's house while the girls were in season. Mom didn't live far from me and had one of my spayed champions. This helped the boys not "go crazy" with girls in season.

In addition, a breeder often has a handful of dogs that are currently being shown and that will eventually become a pet.


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## jazzmalt (Feb 6, 2007)

Miko is the second Maltese baby I’ve had in 13 years. I purchased both of my babies from a show breeder because I wanted an older baby that was being held as a show prospect, but the breeder decided not to show for relatively minor reasons. My first baby, Jazz (who has gone to the Rainbow Bridge), was 6 ½ months old when I got him. The breeder held Jazz as a show prospect, but they decided to place him in a pet home when they realized he was going to be larger than what they wanted. Miko was being held as a show prospect by the same breeder. But, at 5 ½ months old, Miko had let it be known that he simply didn’t want to be a show dog. As the breeder explained to me, his temperament was much too mellow for the show ring. They prefer an alpha-type temperament, a dog who sparkles around the ring with exuberance, but Miko only wanted to lay on someone’s lap and be petted literally all the time…perfect for me LOL. They had considered selling him to another show home, but knew that he’d be so much happier as a pet, and they wanted that for him above all else. I’m relating this because I think that adopting these two babies gave me a pet-owner’s perspective on what to expect from a dog whose early life has been spent training and conditioning them for the show ring. Both of my babies arrived, after 4-6 months of show preparation, beautifully socialized and with perfectly rock-stable temperaments. They both loved everyone they met, and greeted new people and new situations with a lot of curiosity and enthusiasm. They both loved the attention and pampering of being groomed, having their faces combed and their little topknots done up while they gave kisses to their groomer. They both came to me this way from day 1, with no readjustment period needed by either of them. My conclusion from these two experiences is that a happy, well-adjusted pup isn’t the product of neglect, mistreatment or inattention. A pup that loves to be groomed isn’t the product of a life of rough handling. A successful show breeder needs their dogs to love what they’re doing in the ring, and an unhappy dog isn’t going to show well. In my opinion, a good show dog isn’t just the lucky result of great genetics; it’s a dog that’s being given what it needs to be happy, confident and well-adjusted.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (Jazzmalt @ Feb 10 2009, 03:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723439


> Miko is the second Maltese baby I’ve had in 13 years. I purchased both of my babies from a show breeder because I wanted an older baby that was being held as a show prospect, but the breeder decided not to show for relatively minor reasons. My first baby, Jazz (who has gone to the Rainbow Bridge), was 6 ½ months old when I got him. The breeder held Jazz as a show prospect, but they decided to place him in a pet home when they realized he was going to be larger than what they wanted. Miko was being held as a show prospect by the same breeder. But, at 5 ½ months old, Miko had let it be known that he simply didn’t want to be a show dog. As the breeder explained to me, his temperament was much too mellow for the show ring. They prefer an alpha-type temperament, a dog who sparkles around the ring with exuberance, but Miko only wanted to lay on someone’s lap and be petted literally all the time…perfect for me LOL. They had considered selling him to another show home, but knew that he’d be so much happier as a pet, and they wanted that for him above all else. I’m relating this because I think that adopting these two babies gave me a pet-owner’s perspective on what to expect from a dog whose early life has been spent training and conditioning them for the show ring. Both of my babies arrived, after 4-6 months of show preparation, beautifully socialized and with perfectly rock-stable temperaments. They both loved everyone they met, and greeted new people and new situations with a lot of curiosity and enthusiasm. They both loved the attention and pampering of being groomed, having their faces combed and their little topknots done up while they gave kisses to their groomer. They both came to me this way from day 1, with no readjustment period needed by either of them. My conclusion from these two experiences is that a happy, well-adjusted pup isn’t the product of neglect, mistreatment or inattention. A pup that loves to be groomed isn’t the product of a life of rough handling. A successful show breeder needs their dogs to love what they’re doing in the ring, and an unhappy dog isn’t going to show well. In my opinion, a good show dog isn’t just the lucky result of great genetics; it’s a dog that’s being given what it needs to be happy, confident and well-adjusted.[/B]


 :goodpost:


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## casa verde maltese (Apr 7, 2007)

QUOTE (Jazzmalt @ Feb 10 2009, 02:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723439


> Miko is the second Maltese baby I’ve had in 13 years. I purchased both of my babies from a show breeder because I wanted an older baby that was being held as a show prospect, but the breeder decided not to show for relatively minor reasons. My first baby, Jazz (who has gone to the Rainbow Bridge), was 6 ½ months old when I got him. The breeder held Jazz as a show prospect, but they decided to place him in a pet home when they realized he was going to be larger than what they wanted. Miko was being held as a show prospect by the same breeder. But, at 5 ½ months old, Miko had let it be known that he simply didn’t want to be a show dog. As the breeder explained to me, his temperament was much too mellow for the show ring. They prefer an alpha-type temperament, a dog who sparkles around the ring with exuberance, but Miko only wanted to lay on someone’s lap and be petted literally all the time…perfect for me LOL. They had considered selling him to another show home, but knew that he’d be so much happier as a pet, and they wanted that for him above all else. I’m relating this because I think that adopting these two babies gave me a pet-owner’s perspective on what to expect from a dog whose early life has been spent training and conditioning them for the show ring. Both of my babies arrived, after 4-6 months of show preparation, beautifully socialized and with perfectly rock-stable temperaments. They both loved everyone they met, and greeted new people and new situations with a lot of curiosity and enthusiasm. They both loved the attention and pampering of being groomed, having their faces combed and their little topknots done up while they gave kisses to their groomer. They both came to me this way from day 1, with no readjustment period needed by either of them. My conclusion from these two experiences is that a happy, well-adjusted pup isn’t the product of neglect, mistreatment or inattention. A pup that loves to be groomed isn’t the product of a life of rough handling. A successful show breeder needs their dogs to love what they’re doing in the ring, and an unhappy dog isn’t going to show well. In my opinion, a good show dog isn’t just the lucky result of great genetics; it’s a dog that’s being given what it needs to be happy, confident and well-adjusted.[/B]


I agree!! great post!! I have Grace - who Heidi loves very much - she cried when we left with her. She is a retired champion and a LOVE BUG!! she moved in and took over! (IN A GOOD WAY!). Scout was held for show and he is just fine.. a little bit of a loner at times - but when you pick him up he is a LOVE BUG as well - he loves to give lots of kisses and snuggles..


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

QUOTE (Jazzmalt @ Feb 10 2009, 02:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723439


> Miko is the second Maltese baby I’ve had in 13 years. I purchased both of my babies from a show breeder because I wanted an older baby that was being held as a show prospect, but the breeder decided not to show for relatively minor reasons. My first baby, Jazz (who has gone to the Rainbow Bridge), was 6 ½ months old when I got him. The breeder held Jazz as a show prospect, but they decided to place him in a pet home when they realized he was going to be larger than what they wanted. Miko was being held as a show prospect by the same breeder. But, at 5 ½ months old, Miko had let it be known that he simply didn’t want to be a show dog. As the breeder explained to me, his temperament was much too mellow for the show ring. They prefer an alpha-type temperament, a dog who sparkles around the ring with exuberance, but Miko only wanted to lay on someone’s lap and be petted literally all the time…perfect for me LOL. They had considered selling him to another show home, but knew that he’d be so much happier as a pet, and they wanted that for him above all else. I’m relating this because I think that adopting these two babies gave me a pet-owner’s perspective on what to expect from a dog whose early life has been spent training and conditioning them for the show ring. Both of my babies arrived, after 4-6 months of show preparation, beautifully socialized and with perfectly rock-stable temperaments. They both loved everyone they met, and greeted new people and new situations with a lot of curiosity and enthusiasm. They both loved the attention and pampering of being groomed, having their faces combed and their little topknots done up while they gave kisses to their groomer. They both came to me this way from day 1, with no readjustment period needed by either of them. My conclusion from these two experiences is that a happy, well-adjusted pup isn’t the product of neglect, mistreatment or inattention. A pup that loves to be groomed isn’t the product of a life of rough handling. A successful show breeder needs their dogs to love what they’re doing in the ring, and an unhappy dog isn’t going to show well. In my opinion, a good show dog isn’t just the lucky result of great genetics; it’s a dog that’s being given what it needs to be happy, confident and well-adjusted.[/B]


 :goodpost:


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

QUOTE (Jazzmalt @ Feb 10 2009, 01:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723439


> Miko is the second Maltese baby I've had in 13 years. I purchased both of my babies from a show breeder because I wanted an older baby that was being held as a show prospect, but the breeder decided not to show for relatively minor reasons. My first baby, Jazz (who has gone to the Rainbow Bridge), was 6 ½ months old when I got him. The breeder held Jazz as a show prospect, but they decided to place him in a pet home when they realized he was going to be larger than what they wanted. Miko was being held as a show prospect by the same breeder. But, at 5 ½ months old, Miko had let it be known that he simply didn't want to be a show dog. As the breeder explained to me, his temperament was much too mellow for the show ring. They prefer an alpha-type temperament, a dog who sparkles around the ring with exuberance, but Miko only wanted to lay on someone's lap and be petted literally all the time…perfect for me LOL. They had considered selling him to another show home, but knew that he'd be so much happier as a pet, and they wanted that for him above all else. I'm relating this because I think that adopting these two babies gave me a pet-owner's perspective on what to expect from a dog whose early life has been spent training and conditioning them for the show ring. Both of my babies arrived, after 4-6 months of show preparation, beautifully socialized and with perfectly rock-stable temperaments. They both loved everyone they met, and greeted new people and new situations with a lot of curiosity and enthusiasm. They both loved the attention and pampering of being groomed, having their faces combed and their little topknots done up while they gave kisses to their groomer. They both came to me this way from day 1, with no readjustment period needed by either of them. My conclusion from these two experiences is that a happy, well-adjusted pup isn't the product of neglect, mistreatment or inattention. A pup that loves to be groomed isn't the product of a life of rough handling. A successful show breeder needs their dogs to love what they're doing in the ring, and an unhappy dog isn't going to show well. In my opinion, a good show dog isn't just the lucky result of great genetics; it's a dog that's being given what it needs to be happy, confident and well-adjusted.[/B]


 :aktion033: :aktion033: Excellent Post! Makes me want to find one just like that. Shoni is very close, but I can't say he loves the grooming, and he could use a playmate.


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

QUOTE (Lacie's Mom @ Feb 9 2009, 06:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=722858


> I hate to mention this -- but -- some of the "bad" people that are at shows (especially in the mid-west) are puppymills who have entered a dog just to get a ribbon and a picture taken. Then when some unsuspecting innocent goes to buy one of the puppymill furbabies -- they are told that he/she was bred from a "Show Dog" and if questioned, they'll even produce a picture.
> 
> 99.9% of all Show Dogs have WONDERFUL lives. They truly enjoy showing, enjoy the attention they receive, enjoy travelling and being with their handlers. They're treated like "STARS". Yes -- they are sometimes crated -- but they are out a lot too. If not, how would they ever have the stamina to compete in the shows. They have to have well-toned muscles which doesn't come about from staying in a crate.
> 
> ...


 :goodpost:


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Feb 10 2009, 07:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723659


> QUOTE (Jazzmalt @ Feb 10 2009, 01:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723439





> Miko is the second Maltese baby I've had in 13 years. I purchased both of my babies from a show breeder because I wanted an older baby that was being held as a show prospect, but the breeder decided not to show for relatively minor reasons. My first baby, Jazz (who has gone to the Rainbow Bridge), was 6 ½ months old when I got him. The breeder held Jazz as a show prospect, but they decided to place him in a pet home when they realized he was going to be larger than what they wanted. Miko was being held as a show prospect by the same breeder. But, at 5 ½ months old, Miko had let it be known that he simply didn't want to be a show dog. As the breeder explained to me, his temperament was much too mellow for the show ring. They prefer an alpha-type temperament, a dog who sparkles around the ring with exuberance, but Miko only wanted to lay on someone's lap and be petted literally all the time…perfect for me LOL. They had considered selling him to another show home, but knew that he'd be so much happier as a pet, and they wanted that for him above all else. I'm relating this because I think that adopting these two babies gave me a pet-owner's perspective on what to expect from a dog whose early life has been spent training and conditioning them for the show ring. Both of my babies arrived, after 4-6 months of show preparation, beautifully socialized and with perfectly rock-stable temperaments. They both loved everyone they met, and greeted new people and new situations with a lot of curiosity and enthusiasm. They both loved the attention and pampering of being groomed, having their faces combed and their little topknots done up while they gave kisses to their groomer. They both came to me this way from day 1, with no readjustment period needed by either of them. My conclusion from these two experiences is that a happy, well-adjusted pup isn't the product of neglect, mistreatment or inattention. A pup that loves to be groomed isn't the product of a life of rough handling. A successful show breeder needs their dogs to love what they're doing in the ring, and an unhappy dog isn't going to show well. In my opinion, a good show dog isn't just the lucky result of great genetics; it's a dog that's being given what it needs to be happy, confident and well-adjusted.[/B]


 :aktion033: :aktion033: Excellent Post! Makes me want to find one just like that. Shoni is very close, but I can't say he loves the grooming, and he could use a playmate.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Oh is Shoni going to get a brother or a sister? how exciting!!!!


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

[/QUOTE]I hate to mention this -- but -- some of the "bad" people that are at shows (especially in the mid-west) are puppymills who have entered a dog just to get a ribbon and a picture taken. Then when some unsuspecting innocent goes to buy one of the puppymill furbabies -- they are told that he/she was bred from a "Show Dog" and if questioned, they'll even produce a picture.[/QUOTE]

This made me cringe. I live in the mid-west and live in a dog house with all my dogs. There are "bad" breeder's every where. As everyone has said, "It is a different mind set." Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Different show people do different things. Handler's is what you see mostly at dog shows. The owner's don't handle their dogs all the time. It can be nerve wracking to be in the ring trying to handle a dog on a lead and get it to do what you want. The handler doesn't have that problem. Most have been doing it since forever. I have 2 girls out with a handler right now. I had back surgery and cannot handle them right now. They are in full coat. It was a very difficult decision to send them to someone to take care of them and show them. I didn't want to loose the coat I had finally learned to grow. My dogs play together, some sleep with me, and some prefer their own agenda. Most of my regular show friends are not speaking with me right now because my girls have been winning with this handler. Oh, well. What can I say, I am a poor handler. I did what I felt I had to do. These girls are very nice and deserve to be champions. 
We are basically talking about show breeder's with dogs in coat. Because of the coat the dogs are treated like they are more "fragile" than other non coated dogs. You cannot win if your dog is not in good condition. I know, I have been there. It's only for a little while that they live this kind of life. It's a hobby, like any other hobby. If you don't like it, you don't have to "see" it. It's like knowing there are many starving people in your own cities. We turn a blind eye to it. (sizzle).
Tina


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

QUOTE (Jazzmalt @ Feb 10 2009, 04:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723439


> Miko is the second Maltese baby I’ve had in 13 years. I purchased both of my babies from a show breeder because I wanted an older baby that was being held as a show prospect, but the breeder decided not to show for relatively minor reasons. My first baby, Jazz (who has gone to the Rainbow Bridge), was 6 ½ months old when I got him. The breeder held Jazz as a show prospect, but they decided to place him in a pet home when they realized he was going to be larger than what they wanted. Miko was being held as a show prospect by the same breeder. But, at 5 ½ months old, Miko had let it be known that he simply didn’t want to be a show dog. As the breeder explained to me, his temperament was much too mellow for the show ring. They prefer an alpha-type temperament, a dog who sparkles around the ring with exuberance, but Miko only wanted to lay on someone’s lap and be petted literally all the time…perfect for me LOL. They had considered selling him to another show home, but knew that he’d be so much happier as a pet, and they wanted that for him above all else. I’m relating this because I think that adopting these two babies gave me a pet-owner’s perspective on what to expect from a dog whose early life has been spent training and conditioning them for the show ring. Both of my babies arrived, after 4-6 months of show preparation, beautifully socialized and with perfectly rock-stable temperaments. They both loved everyone they met, and greeted new people and new situations with a lot of curiosity and enthusiasm. They both loved the attention and pampering of being groomed, having their faces combed and their little topknots done up while they gave kisses to their groomer. They both came to me this way from day 1, with no readjustment period needed by either of them. My conclusion from these two experiences is that a happy, well-adjusted pup isn’t the product of neglect, mistreatment or inattention. A pup that loves to be groomed isn’t the product of a life of rough handling. A successful show breeder needs their dogs to love what they’re doing in the ring, and an unhappy dog isn’t going to show well. In my opinion, a good show dog isn’t just the lucky result of great genetics; it’s a dog that’s being given what it needs to be happy, confident and well-adjusted.[/B]



Oh I bet that had to be amazing!!!! They both sound so precious....and I am so sorry for the loss of Jazz. They both sound like incredible wonderful babies....Thank you so much for sharing :wub: My questions really started out about the show dogs and how much grooming they needed....I never realized it...or actually I never really thought about it. But I am so glad that you shared. They both sound so darling and I can tell just how much you love them.






QUOTE (Lacie's Mom @ Feb 10 2009, 01:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723378


> To answer you question about what happens to the "Show Dog" after he is retired from the Show Ring -- well, it all depends. Here are the scenarios that most frequently happen:
> 
> 1. If a female, she is usually breed a couple of times and then spayed and placed as a pet in a forever home.
> 
> ...



Lynn, thanks so much for sharing. At first, I felt bad about asking, as I was so unsure about so many things. But you all have to remember, I am coming from just a fur-baby pet Mommy mindset....and being on here has helped me learn so many things. Then questions about the show babies starting popping in my head....about the grooming..who is bred..when...and you answered all my questions....I do appreciate.

I think it's only normal for a pet Mommy to be curious, and now I am very glad that and I asked, and now realize no one should really be upset that I did ask....Actually, I would think my questions, show how deeply I love the babies, and all, both show people, and loving pet people would truly embrace that.

I think my questions, may have been better asked with a specific breeder, as I think it may be hard to generalize, as I am sure breeders, although share a common bond of showing, are still unique, and do things perhaps slightly different then the other.

Honeslty, I think my questions were completely normal and quite appropriate, for someone, such as myself never exposed to all that goes in to showing...and I think show breeders would be delighted at my questions and even more delighted to have such a great interest.

I guess then only way I can relate, would be if a new pet owner, would ask me questions...what do I feed Mia and Leo, how often, where do they stay, how do I train them...and I would be delighted that the person asked, and cared so much about their little one, that they wanted to get as much knowledge as possible.

Thank you everyone for sharing your input. I am sure it enlightened many.


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## jazzmalt (Feb 6, 2007)

QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Feb 10 2009, 06:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723659


> Makes me want to find one just like that. Shoni is very close, but I can't say he loves the grooming, and he could use a playmate.[/B]


Dee, are you thinking about getting another baby? I plan to get a playmate for Miko someday, too. I figured to wait until Miko was about 3, not only so he'd have some company (especially when I'm away), but because I don't ever again want to have the devastating experience of an empty house when an only-baby crosses the bridge. When the time comes to add to our little family, I'm going to do it exactly the same way as with Jazz and Miko. For me, there's no downside to getting an older puppy that's already learned so many good habits, but has matured beyond chewing up your favorite shoes or peeing on the carpet. LOL.

QUOTE (Allheart @ Feb 11 2009, 12:09 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723887


> I am so sorry for the loss of Jazz. They both sound like incredible wonderful babies....[/B]


Thank you so much for your sympathy. I lost Jazz almost 2 years ago and still miss him every day. It's really true that a Maltese dog owns your heart.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

QUOTE (Jazzmalt @ Feb 12 2009, 03:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724868


> QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Feb 10 2009, 06:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723659





> Makes me want to find one just like that. Shoni is very close, but I can't say he loves the grooming, and he could use a playmate.[/B]


Dee, are you thinking about getting another baby? I plan to get a playmate for Miko someday, too. I figured to wait until Miko was about 3, not only so he'd have some company (especially when I'm away), but because I don't ever again want to have the devastating experience of an empty house when an only-baby crosses the bridge. When the time comes to add to our little family, I'm going to do it exactly the same way as with Jazz and Miko. For me, there's no downside to getting an older puppy that's already learned so many good habits, but has matured beyond chewing up your favorite shoes or peeing on the carpet. LOL.

QUOTE (Allheart @ Feb 11 2009, 12:09 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723887


> I am so sorry for the loss of Jazz. They both sound like incredible wonderful babies....[/B]


Thank you so much for your sympathy. I lost Jazz almost 2 years ago and still miss him every day. It's really true that a Maltese dog owns your heart.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Gosh, :grouphug: I completely understand. I have 3 permanent holes in my heart :smcry: :smcry: I miss all 3...every minute...of ever day :smcry: :smcry: ...but I still smile at the sweet memories. :grouphug:


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## diamonds mommy (Feb 2, 2009)

While we are on the convo of show dogs I have a few questions.
Yesterday Diamond went the Groomers for the first time! She looks so pretty now :wub: and she got her first top knot that she of course scratched down after I put a bow on it :rofl: I didnt even get a picture!!! (hubby thought it was hillarious). So on today I did my first top knot :thmbup: it came out nice (i think) lol!
But at what age will her coat drop to the floor since I am growing the full coat. Her groomer cut the hair around her paws and eyes and sanitary areas. She was suppose to do that right?
She also recommended that in between Groomings I wash her with Johnson and Johnson baby shampoo and conditioner.
I also bought the chris christensen ice on ice conditiong spray. (Spelling :huh: )
Are these good products to use in your opinon?

But Diamond has a BEAUTIFUL coat right now soft and thick and pretty and really soft :wub:. And will I have to rap her because shes like a little tom-boy!


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (diamonds mommy @ Feb 12 2009, 04:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724903


> While we are on the convo of show dogs I have a few questions.
> Yesterday Diamond went the Groomers for the first time! She looks so pretty now :wub: and she got her first top knot that she of course scratched down after I put a bow on it :rofl: I didnt even get a picture!!! (hubby thought it was hillarious). So on today I did my first top knot :thmbup: it came out nice (i think) lol!
> But at what age will her coat drop to the floor since I am growing the full coat. Her groomer cut the hair around her paws and eyes and sanitary areas. She was suppose to do that right?
> She also recommended that in between Groomings I wash her with Johnson and Johnson baby shampoo and conditioner.
> ...


How old is Diamond? She shouldn't be at the groomer(where Lord knows where all those other dogs have been) until she's got all her shots. It is a VERY tramatic experience for a small puppy. My Gigi will never go to a groomer, unless they really know a maltese's coat. I do all Gigi's grooming at home.
As for coat length, I heard it takes about a year, depending on how fast the coat grows, maybe longer, maybe shorter. And that soft fluffy coat will go through a coat change when she is 6-12 months. This means the coat will change into her adult coat and will start to matt really easily, but it only last about a couple weeks. 
Ice on ice is a good product, I have it. I don't know about the shampoo, maybe someone else on SM has used it before, but I haven't.
And Diamond will get used to wearing topnots as she gets older. Don't worry. And I don't wrap Gigi's hair and it's growing just fine.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (diamonds mommy @ Feb 12 2009, 04:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724903


> While we are on the convo of show dogs I have a few questions.
> Yesterday Diamond went the Groomers for the first time! She looks so pretty now :wub: and she got her first top knot that she of course scratched down after I put a bow on it :rofl: I didnt even get a picture!!! (hubby thought it was hillarious). So on today I did my first top knot :thmbup: it came out nice (i think) lol!
> But at what age will her coat drop to the floor since I am growing the full coat. Her groomer cut the hair around her paws and eyes and sanitary areas. She was suppose to do that right?
> She also recommended that in between Groomings I wash her with Johnson and Johnson baby shampoo and conditioner.
> ...


I wouldn't use Johnson and Johnson. I have heard some negative things about what it can do to dog coat. I do use some human shampoos sometimes, but not that one. There are some threads in the grooming section where people discuss their favorite shampoos that might be a good resource for you. I use a variety depending on my needs and my mood. 

I have ice on ice, but do not use it regularly. It is a good product. I have used it for show grooming. But I try to avoid putting too much product into the coat on a regular basis. 

Trimming a sanitary clip and carefully around the feet is allowed. For my show boy I NEVER trim around the eyes. It is not allowable in the ring. But I also wouldn't want to do it because of the way it grows back in. 

Good groomers are hard to find and I would not trust the average groomer to be very specifically knowledgable about maintaining maltese coat. I have found that many of them only know how to cut coat. I don't mean to be too broad brush in this statement. Most of the people I know who keep their Maltese in long coat learn to do it themselves. When I want my dogs cut I take them to people who are more talented with scissors, but I have learned to brush and brush and brush. :smheat: So for the show coat, I'm it.

*edited to add*: as for wrapping the coat, that is not necessary until it gets close to the ground. When it starts brushing the grass or carpet is when it starts breaking. I didn't start wrapping Cadeau until he was almost a year old. I could have started a little earlier, but not much. I honestly would not wrap a pet. Cameo had long coat and was never wrapped, but she also never grew longer than a certain point because the coat would break.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (ilovemymaltese @ Feb 12 2009, 06:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724998


> QUOTE (diamonds mommy @ Feb 12 2009, 04:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724903





> While we are on the convo of show dogs I have a few questions.
> Yesterday Diamond went the Groomers for the first time! She looks so pretty now :wub: and she got her first top knot that she of course scratched down after I put a bow on it :rofl: I didnt even get a picture!!! (hubby thought it was hillarious). So on today I did my first top knot :thmbup: it came out nice (i think) lol!
> But at what age will her coat drop to the floor since I am growing the full coat. Her groomer cut the hair around her paws and eyes and sanitary areas. She was suppose to do that right?
> She also recommended that in between Groomings I wash her with Johnson and Johnson baby shampoo and conditioner.
> ...


How old is Diamond? She shouldn't be at the groomer(where Lord knows where all those other dogs have been) until she's got all her shots. It is a VERY tramatic experience for a small puppy. My Gigi will never go to a groomer, unless they really know a maltese's coat. I do all Gigi's grooming at home.
As for coat length, I heard it takes about a year, depending on how fast the coat grows, maybe longer, maybe shorter. And that soft fluffy coat will go through a coat change when she is 6-12 months. This means the coat will change into her adult coat and will start to matt really easily, but it only last about a couple weeks. 
Ice on ice is a good product, I have it. I don't know about the shampoo, maybe someone else on SM has used it before, but I haven't.
And Diamond will get used to wearing topnots as she gets older. Don't worry. And I don't wrap Gigi's hair and it's growing just fine.
[/B][/QUOTE]


:thmbup: Until Diamond has had her full round of vaccinations plus two weeks for full immunity (usually around 16-18 weeks), she should not be taken to any public doggie areas - grooming salons, dog parks, pet stores, etc. The first vaccines puppies get are often killed by maternal antibodies from nursing which leave puppies completely unprotected from deadly disease like parvo.

Please read this:

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2115&aid=960

What kind of coat she has is determined by genetics. Those lovely silky coats are not automatic, but rather the result of very careful breeding. Many of us have Maltese with cottony coats which have to be kept in a puppy cut. You won't know about her coat until her adult coat comes in towards the end of her first year. Did you see her parents? That will give you an indication of what kind of coat she will have.

Johnson Baby shampoo is much too harsh for her coat. The pH isn't right and it will damage her coat. :thmbdn:


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## diamonds mommy (Feb 2, 2009)

Diamond is 13 weeks and she goes to Scrub a Dub doggie wash here in houston. It was a recommended groomer here on the SM Forum which is the only reason I went to them. I would love to learn how to groom her myself but Im scared I will screw up something. I may just purchase bio groomfor her in betweens. and she will be 15 wks when she goes back. She has a vet appt tomorrow. i will be asking about shots and Polvo tomorrow. And she kept her topknot in today! So were getting some where!!!


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (diamonds mommy @ Feb 12 2009, 09:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=725335


> Diamond is 13 weeks and she goes to Scrub a Dub doggie wash here in houston. It was a recommended groomer here on the SM Forum which is the only reason I went to them. I would love to learn how to groom her myself but Im scared I will screw up something. I may just purchase bio groomfor her in betweens. and she will be 15 wks when she goes back. She has a vet appt tomorrow. i will be asking about shots and Polvo tomorrow. And she kept her topknot in today! So were getting some where!!![/B]



I would definitely be careful about taking her to a groomer right now, since I doubt all the vaccinations have been given. If she doesn't have all of her shots, you are really running a huge risk and you would really beat yourself up if she caught something serious that could have been avoided. I have 12 week old puppies here and I started their vaccinations at 8 weeks and they won't be 'safe' for another month or so. You just don't want to take any chances. 

I would also avoid the Johnson and Johnson, like others have said. I have had good success with human shampoos and conditioners. Garnier Fructis sleek and shine is a good one, I just make sure i have it diluted. Most coats are forgiving and when I got my first maltese lucy 3 years ago, I had NO clue what to use. I didn't even know I should be blow drying her so I jsut let her air dry. I can definitely say I've learned a LOT since then!! This forum will teach you soooo much! If you have any questions, just let me know!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Petco has Cloud Star's Buddy Wash & conditioner on sale now. I just used the lavender and mint on Lady yesterday and her coat came out very silky, tangle free and smelled great! 

http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?fam...esultRedirect=1


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (Sassy's mommy @ Feb 7 2009, 04:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721455


> QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Feb 7 2009, 04:31 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721408





> QUOTE (Lacie's Mom @ Feb 7 2009, 11:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=721322





> When I was breeding, I had what I called "forever dogs". These were the babies that would always be mine -- not sold. Yes, when they were being shown, they were with their handlers most of the time and I would fly in to see them. Also, when they would come to my part of the country, they would stay at my house (as would their handler).
> 
> They seemed to always know that they belonged to me, but they loved showing and knew that they were special.
> 
> ...


Lynn that is the way it should be.  Probably with companion breeds like ours that is more often the case, or at least I like to hope so. I have seen other breeds at some shows being treated like a "product" or livestock. You wonder what their life is like when not showing. I watched a handler force feed a Fox Terrier in the grooming building. Great globs of canned food shoved down his throat and forcefully holding his mouth shut until he managed to swallow.

About 3 years ago at a local kennel club show I saw a Maltese handler grooming her dog and obviously in a bad mood. She was shoving the poor little Malt all over the table. It was frightened of her and threw up. That made her even madder and I couldn't watch any more. I mostly stay away from the grooming building now. B) 

I also saw a Yorkie at ringside at a big Portland show throwing up and acting like it was too sick to stand. When the time came they took it in the ring anyway. There is good and evil in any situation. Some people shouldn't be allow to have kids or animals. :angry: 
[/B][/QUOTE]

Dee it is a good thing I didn't see someone pushing a little Malt across the table and making it so upset it vomited. I would have approached the handler and said something. Believe me, someone would have gotten attention. I do not stand for abuse....physical nor mental.
[/B][/QUOTE]


If you ever see someone abuse a dog at a show..grooming area or anywhere on the show site, you can go immediately to the AKC rep at the show and make a complaint.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

QUOTE (diamonds mommy @ Feb 12 2009, 11:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=725335


> Diamond is 13 weeks and she goes to Scrub a Dub doggie wash here in houston. It was a recommended groomer here on the SM Forum which is the only reason I went to them. I would love to learn how to groom her myself but Im scared I will screw up something. I may just purchase bio groomfor her in betweens. and she will be 15 wks when she goes back. She has a vet appt tomorrow. i will be asking about shots and Polvo tomorrow. And she kept her topknot in today! So were getting some where!!![/B]


I agree with everyone. Please dont take the little one, who by the way is soooooooo adorable to the groomers, until she is completely done all of her shots, and then when she is...you have wait two weeks after, just to be sure.

I'm surprized the groomer took your baby in, as our groomer will not groom any babies, unless you show the vet papers where they have had all the shots.

Both Mia and Leo were not finished all the series of shots until 5 months. The vet spread out their shots, and we were going every three weeks. It drove me nuts, not being able to have them professionally groomed. I would just bathe them, and snip the hairs out of their eyes....brush their teeth, and brush them, everyday.

Hang in there, before you know it...your precious little one, will have all her shots, and will be able to go to the groomers. Trust me, it is sooooooooooooo worth the wait.

Edit: ooo sorry, I didn't mean bathe them everyday...I reread what I wrote....I bathed them, once a week.


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## mi_ku_5 (Jun 2, 2008)

QUOTE (GreenFuzzer @ Feb 9 2009, 10:18 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723020


> QUOTE (Lacie's Mom @ Feb 9 2009, 07:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=722858





> I think that some of you are judging show breeders incorrectly and don't truly have enough info to go on to accurately form an honest opinion. A few words here and there in a thread, doesn't, by any means explain what show dogs, showing dogs, breeding show dogs, etc. is all about.[/B]


Gee does that mean there are tests out there somewhere that we can take to know when we have enough information that we are allowed to form our own personal honest opinion? Or perhaps our own personal opinion is correct when we agree with someone else? Who has the authority to say when a person has enough information to have their own thoughts and opinions? Thankfully I live in the USA and not only is it legal for me to form my own thoughts and opinions I have the freedom of speech that I can say what those opinions are. Others don't have to like my opinions and normally most people don't like my opinions because I don't sugar coat how I feel about things. For me that is a great thing because I can find out who I want to be close to by the fact that they understand we don't all have to agree, that differences of opinions are important part of life but that those differences do not make one person better, stronger, more important then another. 

Then again this is all my own personal opinion, we all know what that is worth.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but this post was very rude. Lacie's mom was simply stating that a few stories didn't provide enough info to pass judgement, good or bad, on all or any show breeders. Unless you've bred show dogs or attended shows on a regular basis, you couldn't possible know as much about it as Lacie's mom. I see at least two news stories a week, about the police looking for a "Hispanic male" in relation to some crime. That certainly doesn't mean I should judge all Hispanic males. Dog abusers are everywhere, but that doesn't warrant comparing show breeders to puppymillers. Judging a group of people, on the behavior of a few, is wrong, plain and simple.


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