# Where Do Breeders Keep Their Dogs?



## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

One thing I always wondered is....where and how do "reputable" show breeders keep all their dogs? I know that any breeder we would buy from would be conscientious about the health and well-being of the dogs, as well as aiming to hand raise the dogs in their home for proper socialization. But it must not be possible to have like 20-40 dogs running around your house at all times? I've always heard that show dogs spend more time in cages so as to not ruin their coats, but can anyone (breeder or not) speak to what schedule a dog might be on at a breeder's house but maintain order at a breeder's house? For example, do dogs have scheduled play times but go back in their crates to sleep, rest, and eat? How many hours do most breeders give dogs to be roaming around free? Are pregnant dogs kept separate from other dogs? Are stud dogs kept together and separate from female dogs and even young female puppies that have no possibility of going into heat? What about puppies waiting to goto their forever homes? Can they be grouped with other dogs? Are puppies in the same litter allowed to play together, but not puppies from other litters? That's alot of questions...I'm just curious...


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

I'm interested in knowing this as well. Especially for breeders who keep 20+ dogs at home? How do they manage all of this?


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## Tanner's Mom (May 27, 2005)

The breeders I know have converted a room, usually the attached garage, in their house to the doggy room. The crates are in the doggy room & the pee-pads but the dogs have the run of the house. These people don't have 40 dogs, tho, more like 15ish.


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

When I visited TNT's Maltese she had her dogs in pen's in her home. I did see both parents and the very stunning "Rudy" Mercedes's brother, I think she may have some dogs in other rooms. I do not think she has alot of dogs, they were very friendly and well cared for. Mercedes was very socialized, and she had been trained on the grooming table. She is a breeze to groom, she put's her head down so I can put in her bow's or bands and is very good in the tub.

Cathy


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## almitra (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes, I hope a couple of our breeder members here chime in on this issue as I wonder the same things also. So, what about it, guys? How do ya'll arrange this stuff at home, especially with a new litter as well as with older adults dogs? TIA!


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

I know when I visited Gigi's breeders house, they lived in the middle of nowhere, but she said that all her adult digs have the run of the house and the puppies stayed in pens mostly. She had about 15ish dogs. But when we first opened the door, a tiny 8 year old malt welcomed us with a little wagging tail. She was a retired champion that was too small to be bred successfully but stayed with Cindy forever. The other two pups there were very happy to see us and wouldn't leave our laps, but I got miss scaredy cat Gigi. Lol


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## 1malt4me (Oct 6, 2006)

QUOTE (Elly @ Dec 4 2009, 09:50 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858181


> When I visited TNT's Maltese she had her dogs in pen's in her home. I did see both parents and the very stunning "Rudy" Mercedes's brother, I think she may have some dogs in other rooms. I do not think she has alot of dogs, they were very friendly and well cared for. Mercedes was very socialized, and she had been trained on the grooming table. She is a breeze to groom, she put's her head down so I can put in her bow's or bands and is very good in the tub.
> 
> Cathy[/B]


I don't know about the schedule or the answer to any of the many questions but when I first went to vist my breeder, her house was spotless. There were some dogs running around and she had the puppies that I was going to see on the floor playing. I sat on the floor to play with the puppies and I didn't even hesitate to do so, that's how clean it was. I was told puppies that are newly born stay in a bedroom upstairs with her for a few weeks so she can keep a close eye on them. After being at other breeder's houses to see the puppies and feeling there was a layer of grime in the air I was amazed and happy at the very welcomed change.

Dee


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Honestly, I hate to even answer this question because I think it has the potential to lead to statements like it's 'cruel' to keep dogs penned up. So please don't let this become a mud slinging at breeders if they answer your questions honestly.

I can't speak for anybody else but myself but I have a large airy room with wood floors with xpens set up. My husband doesnt' want the dogs roaming around the house because of the carpet so if they aren't with me upstairs, they are either in xpens or in their 'room.' Puppies I have to be careful with, I can't let Lois play with the puppies I have now because she is too rough but the others are fine. Because of how thin and fragile her coat is, Lois is kept penned more than the others (but she also never gets left behind at home when we go to dog shows, so she loves that)


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Dec 4 2009, 11:18 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858210


> Honestly, I hate to even answer this question because I think it has the potential to lead to statements like it's 'cruel' to keep dogs penned up. So please don't let this become a mud slinging at breeders if they answer your questions honestly.
> 
> I can't speak for anybody else but myself but I have a large airy room with wood floors with xpens set up. My husband doesnt' want the dogs roaming around the house because of the carpet so if they aren't with me upstairs, they are either in xpens or in their 'room.' Puppies I have to be careful with, I can't let Lois play with the puppies I have now because she is too rough but the others are fine. Because of how thin and fragile her coat is, Lois is kept penned more than the others (but she also never gets left behind at home when we go to dog shows, so she loves that) The puppies are also penned when I can't watch them because they are like toddlers, into everything. I have 6 dogs and 2 of them are puppies.[/B]


Thank you for answering honestly. This is totally what I thought, just because, how could you possibly have a clean house and dogs running around all the time-- A can play with B, but not with C, and not when D is in heat...etc etc. I don't think leaving dogs in pens is cruel if they get play time outside the pen sometimes. I would think it's much safer for them when they can't be supervised. Do you have separate pens for separate groups of dogs? Thanks for answering!


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't think it is cruel to keep the dogs all together in xpens and/or in a separate room in the house as long as they are well-cared for. You can't give multiple dogs, plus puppies, the run of the house. Can you imagine the chaos? :new_shocked:


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Dec 4 2009, 08:18 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858210


> Honestly, I hate to even answer this question because I think it has the potential to lead to statements like it's 'cruel' to keep dogs penned up. So please don't let this become a mud slinging at breeders if they answer your questions honestly.
> 
> I can't speak for anybody else but myself but I have a large airy room with wood floors with xpens set up. My husband doesnt' want the dogs roaming around the house because of the carpet so if they aren't with me upstairs, they are either in xpens or in their 'room.' Puppies I have to be careful with, I can't let Lois play with the puppies I have now because she is too rough but the others are fine. Because of how thin and fragile her coat is, Lois is kept penned more than the others (but she also never gets left behind at home when we go to dog shows, so she loves that) The puppies are also penned when I can't watch them because they are like toddlers, into everything. I have 6 dogs and 2 of them are puppies.[/B]


Stacy - having been to your house a couple times I can definitely say there is nothing cruel about penning your dogs! Their room is probably the size of my living room!  They have each other to play with and they get to have one on one time with you, Marina and/or Shane. Kenzie is incredibly well socialized with people, other dogs, handling, etc... Funny that Lois is too rough with the puppies, she sure was good for Kenzie! 

I think it's good for dogs to have a schedule and learn they can't just do whatever they please! When I am home my dogs go into crates if we are busy or can't have them under foot, especially as puppies.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (princessre @ Dec 4 2009, 09:39 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858214


> QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Dec 4 2009, 11:18 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858210





> Honestly, I hate to even answer this question because I think it has the potential to lead to statements like it's 'cruel' to keep dogs penned up. So please don't let this become a mud slinging at breeders if they answer your questions honestly.
> 
> I can't speak for anybody else but myself but I have a large airy room with wood floors with xpens set up. My husband doesnt' want the dogs roaming around the house because of the carpet so if they aren't with me upstairs, they are either in xpens or in their 'room.' Puppies I have to be careful with, I can't let Lois play with the puppies I have now because she is too rough but the others are fine. Because of how thin and fragile her coat is, Lois is kept penned more than the others (but she also never gets left behind at home when we go to dog shows, so she loves that) The puppies are also penned when I can't watch them because they are like toddlers, into everything. I have 6 dogs and 2 of them are puppies.[/B]


Thank you for answering honestly. This is totally what I thought, just because, how could you possibly have a clean house and dogs running around all the time-- A can play with B, but not with C, and not when D is in heat...etc etc. I don't think leaving dogs in pens is cruel if they get play time outside the pen sometimes. I would think it's much safer for them when they can't be supervised. Do you have separate pens for separate groups of dogs? Thanks for answering!
[/B][/QUOTE]

Some breeders have their dogs running loose and there is nothing wrong with that! I would if I didn't have the hubby asking not to let the dogs run around. 

Lucy, Caddy and Caira are all in one huge pen, Lois has a separate one and the puppies have another one. When Lois is finished and cut down, she'll be put in with the 'girls' and will have a lot more freedom. Although she is really bad about being a tail puller so we'll have to see how that goes! 

If I had an intact male, they would be kept in a separate pen also, regardless of they were shaved down or not. I let them all play together when they are out of the pens but wouldnt' keep them together 24/7. It is asking for trouble! 

Mandy, when Kenzie was here, Lois was a small pup herself, so imagine the same antics but she is now full gorwn! She plays hard, the wild woman that she is :wub: 

I look forward to the day I can shave Lois - her coat is definitely high maintanence. There would be NO way I would be able to keep it the length it is if she ran on carpet and played hard. But since it's important to me right now to finish my females, it is what I have to do to keep her coat in show worthy condition.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (princessre @ Dec 4 2009, 09:09 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858167


> One thing I always wondered is....where and how do "reputable" show breeders keep all their dogs? I know that any breeder we would buy from would be conscientious about the health and well-being of the dogs, as well as aiming to hand raise the dogs in their home for proper socialization. But it must not be possible to have like 20-40 dogs running around your house at all times? I've always heard that show dogs spend more time in cages so as to not ruin their coats, but can anyone (breeder or not) speak to what schedule a dog might be on at a breeder's house but maintain order at a breeder's house? For example, do dogs have scheduled play times but go back in their crates to sleep, rest, and eat? How many hours do most breeders give dogs to be roaming around free? Are pregnant dogs kept separate from other dogs? Are stud dogs kept together and separate from female dogs and even young female puppies that have no possibility of going into heat? What about puppies waiting to goto their forever homes? Can they be grouped with other dogs? Are puppies in the same litter allowed to play together, but not puppies from other litters? That's alot of questions...I'm just curious...[/B]


I really encourage everyone to try to arrange to visit the breeders home when you get a puppy. I know this is not always easy as many of you have gotten your dogs from quite a great distance. But I do feel it is important. I flew across the country to get Cadie. I have also been to Cadeau's breeder's home and met with her personally in her RV at shows. 

After visiting the homes of a few breeders, I would say that the setups vary quite a great deal. Many have discussed the breeders who have a dog room in their home. This is pretty traditional. Some also separate show dogs into an area of the house or have areas for the boys and girls separated into different rooms. I have heard some well known show breeders have the more old fashioned seperate kennel facility on their property. Years back this was more the norm than it is today. I have never seen a setup like that, so I do not know how exactly how it works. 

One of my friends locally, a toy breeder (not Maltese) has one of the best setups I have seen. The girls and puppies live on the main level of the house where she can easily let them out in the fenced side yard. Her boys live down stairs in a daylight basement. They can access the fenced backyard. She has beautiful large areas for them to play together and cabana style bed areas. She and her husband spend a great deal of time in both areas of the house, so the dogs are no isolated at all and get plenty of playtime together. 

As for me, I am not a breeder, but I do show my dogs. They live just like my pet dogs always did with a few exceptions. I limit time rolling in grass and such to more occaisional ventures. My show dogs potty on pee-pads where my pets were more likely to do their business outside. When the coats are long enough to break, I make sure to wrap them to protect the growth. I have hard surface floors, canvas floor cloths (instead of rugs) and a leather sofa all in the attempt to allow my dogs full free run of my house without my having to worry about coat damage. I let them sleep in the bed with me (to the horror of some of my show friends). My show dogs spend a lot more time on the grooming table than they do in pens. 

Actually, Cadie is a tricky girl. She knows how to get out of almost every pen I have tried. One of my friends here nicknamed her Houdin*a*. :Girl power: 

Right now Cadie and Cadeau have full reign to play as much as they like. Cadeau seems to be fairly good about not tearing up her coat. She is not returning the favor and tears him up daily. I am not looking forward to the time when Cadie comes into heat and I have to keep them apart completely. Given her hatred of being crated and her penchant for escape I am probably going to have to be creative in how I keep them apart. I am worried that with her ability to let herself out of her crate she may figure out how to spring him as well when she is motivated by the desire. :smhelp:


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Carina, just ship Dodo off to bootcamp when the time comes!


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (JMM @ Dec 4 2009, 01:55 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858249


> Carina, just ship Dodo off to bootcamp when the time comes![/B]


If you mean that I will probably take you up on it.  

It would keep me from being miserable and I might get back a dog that fits Mandy's list of what it means to be well trained.


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

QUOTE (CloudClan @ Dec 4 2009, 11:35 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858264


> QUOTE (JMM @ Dec 4 2009, 01:55 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858249





> Carina, just ship Dodo off to bootcamp when the time comes![/B]


If you mean that I will probably take you up on it.  

It would keep me from being miserable and I might get back a dog that fits Mandy's list of what it means to be well trained.
[/B][/QUOTE]

LOL Not my list... I was just curious  

I have a dog who barks too much, one who likes to counter surf and one who barks at other dogs and people! But hey, I'm working on it!

I bet that would be fun for Dodo and a bit less stressful for you!


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm no breeder but Gigi is in her expen during the day when we are out, when we sleep and any other time we can't be watching her. She's not a puppy, but if she is left alone, she WILL get into stuff, just like a toddler. There's nothing wrong with that.


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

I am very careful how I house my dogs. As Stacy said, some people get upset when dogs are placed in ex-pens or what we call 2 by 3's or 2 by 4's. Difference in sizes. Some have "apartments" set up. Cages that are stacked onto each other and are 2 by 3 across. 
Mine were housed in the house with me. We moved to the country and per my husbands wish, I have them in a huge building which I spend all my time in with them except at night. I still have my original dogs with me. They run loose in the building during the day and are penned in ex-pens at night. So they don't harm themselves. 
My show dogs are in 2 x 3's. They are let out everyday for play time and to exercise. They can't go to the yard because their coats would pick up any little thing that is loose, like leaves and twigs.
The non-show dogs are housed in large ex-pens in groups. They go out into the yard at least once a day to exercise unless it is raining or snowing. I move them around into different groups because if you don't they think that the new one is a stranger. 
The dogs in season are housed together away from the other females. They ride each other when in season. This way the main group isn't humping everyone. 
The males are house in ex-pens together away from any girls in season. They get along together and do not fight. The reason to fight would be over a girl in season so I remove any possible chance of that as possible. I have one male in a covered 2 X 3. He is a houdini. I don't want him breeding right now. He has even gone up over a 4 foot plastic pen. He likes to socialize. He gets out every day for attention and exercise and I have to watch him closely, he wears a belly band when out because he loves to mark too. 
The girls who are pregnant are kept together in their own ex-pen. Usually it is only one or maybe two at a time and only happens every 6 months or so. 
The girls with puppies are kept in 3 X 4's. The puppies are in 5" high plastic under the bed containers. Mom can get in easily, but the puppies cannot climb out at any time until they are about 4 weeks old. I have a pen set up outside the 3X4 so they can get out and potty. Until puppies are around 4 weeks old, mom stays pretty much with them nursing and cleaning. I have heat lamps set up shinning onto the puppy pan so they stay warm. The puppies have a choice to get into the lamp or out of the lamp where it is cooler. I handle the puppies a lot. At first they don't like to be picked up, but then they get used to being picked up and moved around. 
Puppies are kept together as a litter when weaned. No mixups. If I have two single litter puppies I put those together and mark them. Puppies need other puppies to play with and learn to socialize with. 
Everyone is pad trained. That way if it is raining or snowing they will potty on the pad and not just anywhere. Before the puppies are weaned, mom will teach them to potty away from where they sleep and eat. 
I spend most of my time with them. From 8 in the am until midnight. I have my computer set up there, a TV, a microwave, refrigerator, bathing area, and a living room situation where they are groomed. I have a washer and a dryer and a humidifier. It is airconditioned and heated. I keep the temperature about 68 degrees. My husband, mom, and daughter with 4 grandkids visit the dogs quite a bit. We have a big yard dog that comes in to visit. 
All the dogs that are with me are per AKC standards marked so that if someone would need to identify them they will be able to. I use AVID microchips. It's not exactly ideal, but per AKC I have to have a way of identifying them for someone else. 
I have my very first two Maltese at the house. They sleep with me and keep my mom company during the day. My mom lives with us. 
If you have questions, I will try to answer them.
Tina


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

QUOTE (princessre @ Dec 4 2009, 09:09 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858167


> One thing I always wondered is....where and how do "reputable" show breeders keep all their dogs? I know that any breeder we would buy from would be conscientious about the health and well-being of the dogs, as well as aiming to hand raise the dogs in their home for proper socialization. But it must not be possible to have like 20-40 dogs running around your house at all times? I've always heard that show dogs spend more time in cages so as to not ruin their coats, but can anyone (breeder or not) speak to what schedule a dog might be on at a breeder's house but maintain order at a breeder's house? For example, do dogs have scheduled play times but go back in their crates to sleep, rest, and eat? How many hours do most breeders give dogs to be roaming around free? Are pregnant dogs kept separate from other dogs? Are stud dogs kept together and separate from female dogs and even young female puppies that have no possibility of going into heat? What about puppies waiting to goto their forever homes? Can they be grouped with other dogs? Are puppies in the same litter allowed to play together, but not puppies from other litters? That's alot of questions...I'm just curious...[/B]


I don't have anywhere near the number of dogs referenced in your question and while I can appreciate the curiousity about how people manage their pet population, call me paranoid if you want BUT I would caution any breeder or rescuer against answering a question like this in a public forum given the PETA and HSUS trolls who come to places just like this to gather what they then try to turn into very damaging information. I have nothing to hide but because of all the over-reaching anti-dog legislation being introduced almost daily all around the country, I'm extremely cautious when it comes to putting personal information of any sort on a public forum. If I have a puppy to sell or a rescue dog to place, a potential buyer/adopter can come to my spotless home, visit with me and my dogs, and see first-hand how my dogs live.

MaryH


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

QUOTE (MaryH @ Dec 4 2009, 06:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858343


> I don't have anywhere near the number of dogs referenced in your question and while I can appreciate the curiousity about how people manage their pet population, call me paranoid if you want BUT I would caution any breeder or rescuer against answering a question like this in a public forum given the PETA and HSUS trolls who come to places just like this to gather what they then try to turn into very damaging information. I have nothing to hide but because of all the over-reaching anti-dog legislation being introduced almost daily all around the country, I'm extremely cautious when it comes to putting personal information of any sort on a public forum. If I have a puppy to sell or a rescue dog to place, a potential buyer/adopter can come to my spotless home, visit with me and my dogs, and see first-hand how my dogs live.
> 
> MaryH[/B]


Mary has a very good point. We even use their language, Puppymill and BYB. I am taking the chance to let you see how a really caring breeder houses her dogs. I am always in fear someone will report me for something that isn't true, but can ruin my life and the lives of my dogs. That is the goal of PETA and HSUS. They aren't just after the "breeders" right to breed and own dogs, they are after YOUR dogs and the right to OWN those dogs.

Tina


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

Blech on PETA and HSUS. :yucky: 

Thank you to everyone who posted here.


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

QUOTE (MissMelanie @ Dec 4 2009, 09:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858378


> Blech on PETA and HSUS. :yucky:
> 
> Thank you to everyone who posted here.[/B]


I think it is dangerous to overgeneralized/stereotype on both sides... there are lots of breeders who are active in rescue (Mary is obviously one) and whose hearts are in the right place (if not for them, where would we get these little malts?), as well as many who think that the Humane Societies provide a valuable service (getting animals out of kill shelters, fighting for stronger animal rights/education [of course, sometimes organizations go way overboard with this], etc). But still, no need for one side to demonize the other IMO. It's a shame people can't communicate their points of view with open minds... I had very much enjoyed the discussion on the other thread (learned TONS) *until* it became so personalized. Unfortunatley, I'm beginning to think that the point of view with respect to animals may fall more in line with how people treat discussions about religion and politics. More about just demonizing the other side than listening to a different point of view with an open mind. Such a shame.

This thread is another great example of how we can learn from each other if we listen with an open mind/open heart. From a personal point of view, we rescued two little malts from a true byb (was just going to be a foster situation), but one turned out to be a month preggers. Now we have four dogs here. This thread has been very educational for me, having not been in a situation before with so many Unpotty trained dogs. We've always given the dogs the run of our house...but after you find potty in places like on your bed or on your sofa (what's up with that??? :shocked: ), it makes you have to rethink things. Puppies, of course, are not potty trained at first. So Thank You to the breeders who have offered insights into how they deal with multiple dog households. And thank you to the breeders I spoke with outside of this forum who walked me through what to expect in a pregnancy, whelping, etc...couldn't have done it without them.


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

This is one of the puppies (Daisy) stuck on a doorstop... first time we've had puppies in the house in over 20 years...


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

Isn't she darling, Eileen. I just love her.

I think it is important to make the distinctions between the wonderful work that local Humane socieities do around the country and the group called the HSUS. http://www.localhumane.org/ HSUS is not associated with the local animal shelters and does share more in common with PeTa. 

My Clancy came from a local humane society and I will always be grateful for the work that they do. I got involved with rescue because of them.


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

QUOTE (CloudClan @ Dec 5 2009, 02:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858542


> I think it is important to make the distinctions between the wonderful work that local Humane socieities do around the country and the group called the HSUS. http://www.localhumane.org/ HSUS is not associated with the local animal shelters and does share more in common with PeTa.
> 
> My Clancy came from a local humane society and I will always be grateful for the work that they do. I got involved with rescue because of them.[/B]


I did not know that, Carina. I will have to research why that is...thank you for pointing that out to me  :wub: Clancy :wub:


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

QUOTE (MaltLoverEileen @ Dec 5 2009, 01:29 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858522


> I think it is dangerous to overgeneralized/stereotype on both sides... there are lots of breeders who are active in rescue (Mary is obviously one) and whose hearts are in the right place (if not for them, where would we get these little malts?), as well as many who think that the Humane Societies provide a valuable service (getting animals out of kill shelters, fighting for stronger animal rights/education [of course, sometimes organizations go way overboard with this], etc). But still, no need for one side to demonize the other IMO. It's a shame people can't communicate their points of view with open minds... I had very much enjoyed the discussion on the other thread (learned TONS) *until* it became so personalized. Unfortunatley, I'm beginning to think that the point of view with respect to animals may fall more in line with how people treat discussions about religion and politics. More about just demonizing the other side than listening to a different point of view with an open mind. Such a shame.
> 
> This thread is another great example of how we can learn from each other if we listen with an open mind/open heart. From a personal point of view, we rescued two little malts from a true byb (was just going to be a foster situation), but one turned out to be a month preggers. Now we have four dogs here. This thread has been very educational for me, having not been in a situation before with so many Unpotty trained dogs. We've always given the dogs the run of our house...but after you find potty in places like on your bed or on your sofa (what's up with that??? :shocked: ), it makes you have to rethink things. Puppies, of course, are not potty trained at first. So Thank You to the breeders who have offered insights into how they deal with multiple dog households. And thank you to the breeders I spoke with outside of this forum who walked me through what to expect in a pregnancy, whelping, etc...couldn't have done it without them.[/B]


Eileen, I think you know me well enough to know that I am absolutely committed to the welfare and humane treatment of all animals. I consider myself to be open minded and respectful of the opinions of others. And I hope I never come across as demonizing any person or group of people. I have a breeder friend who lives in a state that has more than its fair share of puppymills. She and her friends would love nothing more than to aid in an effort to end the mass production of animals for the sole purpose of making money. Not long ago she told me that she was attending a local meeting being held by a new grass roots animal welfare organization in her state whose goal was to broaden their effort at the state-wide level to enact legislation to shut down the puppymills in that state. She and others from her local kennel club attended the meeting to learn more about this organization, thinking they would offer assistance toward a common goal. Instead, the group holding the meeting was all about animal rights, not animal welfare, showing pictures and videos of horrific situations (propaganda from situations in the states other than where my breeder friend lives), and proposing over-reaching legislation that would negatively impact every good, caring, responsible breeder at that meeting that day. And they were also all about collecting donations and contact information. Needless to say, the breeder attendees started asking questions and ultimately this grass roots group did admit that they were being assisted in their efforts by HSUS. HSUS is not a "parent" to local humane societies just as the ASPCA is not a "parent" to local SPCAs. Unfortunately we live in a world where we all need to dig deep in our research efforts and always read the fine print.

MaryH


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

QUOTE (MaryH @ Dec 5 2009, 03:12 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858548


> QUOTE (MaltLoverEileen @ Dec 5 2009, 01:29 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858522





> I think it is dangerous to overgeneralized/stereotype on both sides... there are lots of breeders who are active in rescue (Mary is obviously one) and whose hearts are in the right place (if not for them, where would we get these little malts?), as well as many who think that the Humane Societies provide a valuable service (getting animals out of kill shelters, fighting for stronger animal rights/education [of course, sometimes organizations go way overboard with this], etc). But still, no need for one side to demonize the other IMO. It's a shame people can't communicate their points of view with open minds... I had very much enjoyed the discussion on the other thread (learned TONS) *until* it became so personalized. Unfortunatley, I'm beginning to think that the point of view with respect to animals may fall more in line with how people treat discussions about religion and politics. More about just demonizing the other side than listening to a different point of view with an open mind. Such a shame.
> 
> This thread is another great example of how we can learn from each other if we listen with an open mind/open heart. From a personal point of view, we rescued two little malts from a true byb (was just going to be a foster situation), but one turned out to be a month preggers. Now we have four dogs here. This thread has been very educational for me, having not been in a situation before with so many Unpotty trained dogs. We've always given the dogs the run of our house...but after you find potty in places like on your bed or on your sofa (what's up with that??? :shocked: ), it makes you have to rethink things. Puppies, of course, are not potty trained at first. So Thank You to the breeders who have offered insights into how they deal with multiple dog households. And thank you to the breeders I spoke with outside of this forum who walked me through what to expect in a pregnancy, whelping, etc...couldn't have done it without them.[/B]


Eileen, I think you know me well enough to know that I am absolutely committed to the welfare and humane treatment of all animals. I consider myself to be open minded and respectful of the opinions of others. And I hope I never come across as demonizing any person or group of people. I have a breeder friend who lives in a state that has more than its fair share of puppymills. She and her friends would love nothing more than to aid in an effort to end the mass production of animals for the sole purpose of making money. Not long ago she told me that she was attending a local meeting being held by a new grass roots animal welfare organization in her state whose goal was to broaden their effort at the state-wide level to enact legislation to shut down the puppymills in that state. She and others from her local kennel club attended the meeting to learn more about this organization, thinking they would offer assistance toward a common goal. Instead, the group holding the meeting was all about animal rights, not animal welfare, showing pictures and videos of horrific situations (propaganda from situations in the states other than where my breeder friend lives), and proposing over-reaching legislation that would negatively impact every good, caring, responsible breeder at that meeting that day. And they were also all about collecting donations and contact information. Needless to say, the breeder attendees started asking questions and ultimately this grass roots group did admit that they were being assisted in their efforts by HSUS. HSUS is not a "parent" to local humane societies just as the ASPCA is not a "parent" to local SPCAs. Unfortunately we live in a world where we all need to dig deep in our research efforts and always read the fine print.

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]

I do know you well enough ((((Mary)))).... that's why I quoted the 'blech' post and not yours  Somehow it seemed overreaching to me at that point...but at this point in the thread, my eyes have been opened that the HSUS is quite different than the local Human Societies that are active in pulling animals from kill shelters, etc...so I understand even the simple "blech" comment now too B) I had no idea. I don't like that groups that are just 'fear factorish'...they only seem to serve to widen the divides between groups instead of focusing on finding a middle ground that is truly best for the ANIMALS and not just propoganda-ish (if that makes sense). So thank you for alerting me to this distinction


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

I've been to a few breeders homes. They are definately reputable, and involved with rescue, hence my involvment.

My latest was Tommy. The accomodations, were not only amazing for the breeder's dogs, they were amazing for Tommy.

I was VERY impressed. And nope, not 20 to 40 dogs, that would be my house ~ LOL

Tommy thanks this breeder, with all his heart. She went above, and beyond, the call of duty. 

On a side-note, Eileen, your "door-stop" pic, is crackin' me up. That is the cutest pic I've seen ~ I love it. :wub: 

And yep, I had to Laugh Out Loud. Too funny ~ :HistericalSmiley:


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Dec 5 2009, 03:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=858560


> On a side-note, Eileen, your "door-stop" pic, is crackin' me up. That is the cutest pic I've seen ~ I love it. :wub:
> 
> And yep, I had to Laugh Out Loud. Too funny ~ :HistericalSmiley:[/B]


Thanks Deb  I crack up too, because it was the only time I could get a shot of her holding still and she has her little lips stickin out all pouty and petulant about being stuck...she's a funny little thing


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

QUOTE


> Somehow it seemed overreaching to me at that point...but at this point in the thread, my eyes have been opened that the HSUS is quite different than the local Human Societies that are active in pulling animals from kill shelters, etc...so I understand even the simple "blech" comment now too B) I had no idea. I don't like that groups that are just 'fear factorish'...they only seem to serve to widen the divides between groups instead of focusing on finding a middle ground that is truly best for the ANIMALS and not just propoganda-ish (if that makes sense). So thank you for alerting me to this distinction [/B]


It is the unsuspecting people that PETA and HSUS want to get support from. Until you get involved with these groups and see how they operate, you think that they are doing everything possible to help with "animal rights". I look at things open minded and sometimes a bit naieve. These people really are not into helping the animals. They are into removing the animals from us. They are pretty scary people. They will actually harm animals to get their point across.
JMO
Tina


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2009)

Don't forget that dogs are den animals. People don't like being in enclosed areas while most dogs don't mind so much. For those that do mind, it's not so much that they hate the crate, but that they hate being separated from their pack leader - you.


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