# mating the male



## cindya

I have a male maltese and a friend has the female, we are trying to breed the 2 dogs and because it's thier first time, does anyone have any details on how to stimulate the male and how to help him mount the female. The female is on day 7 and need help asap.

Thank you,
Cindy


----------



## 3Maltmom

Sorry, can't help you, I'm too busy with my eight rescue dogs, whom have all been spayed/neutered.

You should really introduce yourself. Perhaps give the ages of the dogs, and your reasons for breeding.

My advice would be, stop the breeding process, and ask questions with regards to "breeding", not the
actual process.


----------



## Cosy

There is much to know before attempting to stick two dogs together.
You might read the link to breeders rules of ethics in my signature. That's
a start.


----------



## jmm

My advice is to STOP. First of all, if you don't know when to breed the bitch, you shouldn't be breeding. Do some research BEFORE the deed and that should include what health tests both bitch and dog should have to ensure you are not liable for sick puppies who need thousands of dollars of vet care. And the bitch owner should be aware of the risk to her bitch.


----------



## precious paws

Have you considered having both malts fixed? There are so many dogs in shelters needing homes.


----------



## bonniesmom

Cindy - Please, please do not attempt to mate these two dogs. This kind of indiscriminate breeding is largely responsible for
the huge number of abandoned dogs and puppies in rescues and shelters, many of them them to be euthanized. It sounds
like you have no serious reason for wanting to do this except that you and your friend think it might be fun. In addition to
the above, there is the question of health and genetic disorders. I'd be willing to bet that you know little or nothing of the
ancestry of these two dogs. Please do read CuteCosyNToy's link - it explains it so much better than I ever could, but
breeding is a serious business, not to be undertaken lightly. Please reconsider! Sorry to be so blunt.


----------



## theboyz

Cindy, I so agree with the others. There are too many heartaches involved when you have not done your research AHEAD of time.
The testing that must be done to protect the puppies and new owners. This is extremely important.
Please don't jump into this. Please wait.
Are the two dogs healthy and screened for all of these health problems?
Did you buy them from a reputable breeder with the intent to breed? If so, who is that breeder?
It is this very thing that you are doing that labels you as a BYB.

We hope you have a change of heart. As 3MaltMom knows first hand, there are too many sick and very sad rescue babies that are a result of what you are attempting.


----------



## Nikki's Mom

Hello. Welcome to Spoiled Maltese. We are glad you are here. I encourage you to read our forums entitled, Breeders/Puppy Mills, etc. You will become educated on why many of us are not in agreement about what you are doing, with all due respect.

I would beg you to reconsider mating your dog. Might I ask you to think about why you are doing this? Many home breeders and backyard breeders mate their dogs because they want to produce cute puppies to sell or give away, or keep themselves. Have you had these dogs health tested extensively. Do you know what health issues you might be breeding into this line. 

Do you know where many home/backyard breeder puppies end up? In shelters waiting to be euthanized. Some of the lucky ones go to rescues. Then the rescues have to spend thousands of dollars on healthcare for them before they are adopted. 

Maltese show breeders are very careful about breeding. Their intent is to produce healthy puppies in keeping with the Maltese standard. When a puppy isn't show quality, they sell that puppy with a spay/neuter contract. Do you know why? Because then the new owner will not breed that puppy and put less desirable traits into the breed.

There are a lot of other factors involved, but I am just a new Maltese owner, not a breeder. 

I'm sure that you are probably a very nice person. But do you want to join the ranks of indiscriminate breeders and add to the misery and suffering of unwanted dogs? Spay/neuter these dogs and enjoy them. If you want a puppy, get one from a reputable breeder. Or better yet, get a rescue dog. You'll save yourself a lot of money in health bills, and you'll have taken a big step toward saving the lives of future puppies. 

Thanks for listening. I truly hope you do the right thing.


----------



## ClaBec Maltese

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Jul 9 2008, 06:25 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=602399


> Hello. Welcome to Spoiled Maltese. We are glad you are here. I encourage you to read our forums entitled, Breeders/Puppy Mills, etc. You will become educated on why many of us are not in agreement about what you are doing, with all due respect.
> 
> I would beg you to reconsider mating your dog. Might I ask you to think about why you are doing this? Many home breeders and backyard breeders mate their dogs because they want to produce cute puppies to sell or give away, or keep themselves. Have you had these dogs health tested extensively. Do you know what health issues you might be breeding into this line.
> 
> Do you know where many home/backyard breeder puppies end up? In shelters waiting to be euthanized. Some of the lucky ones go to rescues. Then the rescues have to spend thousands of dollars on healthcare for them before they are adopted.
> 
> Maltese show breeders are very careful about breeding. Their intent is to produce healthy puppies in keeping with the Maltese standard. When a puppy isn't show quality, they sell that puppy with a spay/neuter contract. Do you know why? Because then the new owner will not breed that puppy and put less desirable traits into the breed.
> 
> There are a lot of other factors involved, but I am just a new Maltese owner, not a breeder.
> 
> I'm sure that you are probably a very nice person. But do you want to join the ranks of indiscriminate breeders and add to the misery and suffering of unwanted dogs? Spay/neuter these dogs and enjoy them. If you want a puppy, get one from a reputable breeder. Or better yet, get a rescue dog. You'll save yourself a lot of money in health bills, and you'll have taken a big step toward saving the lives of future puppies.
> 
> Thanks for listening. I truly hope you do the right thing.[/B]


 :goodpost:


----------



## carrie

although unwanted/abandoned dogs left in shelters is a huge problem, in my opinion, HEALTH is just as important. you have NO idea what sorts of genetic ticking time bombs you may be passing down with your indiscriminant breeding practice. consider my massimo, who also came from a back yard breeder, with his luxating patellae, early onset periodontal disease, and idiopathic epilepsy. all these ailments appeared after he was a year old. he not only costs me a pretty penny in yearly vet fees and necessary daily medication, he costs me a lot of heartache as well. not being able to control his seizures after years of trial and error is disheartening. truly. and i hope you never have to know what i, or people like me, go through.

if you don't know the genetics behind your dogs and are not prepared to take full responsibility for the puppies you produce, DO NOT BREED. 
leave it up to the people who know what they‘re doing.


----------



## angel's mom

Cindy,

Welcome to Spoiled Maltese. I'm so glad you found us. There are a bunch of great people here with a lot of experience and more than willing to share and educate. 

The sad thing about what you are wanting to do, is that many people do not have any idea that they are doing something they really shouldn't be. Growing up, there were always dogs around, not a purebred, planned pregnancy among them. Most were strays that adopted us. They were never desexed. The biggest worry we had if one got pregnant was what we were going to do with all those puppies. If a puppy didn't make it, it just "wasn't meant to be." Honestly, it never dawned on me that genetics played the biggest role of all. I know, some people are saying - "duh, how can anyone be so dumb!" I guess I thought dog breeding was just a nature thing. That is, until I found this forum. I'm sure you are a great person, who just didn't realize the implications of what you are wanting to do. Please do stop and consider all that has been shared with you.

There's still another angle to be considered. You said the female belongs to a friend of yours. Are you prepared to listen to your friend cry if her fluffbutt dies while trying to give birth? There are many threads on this board about problem births. Please search and read them to help you have a better understanding of what you/your friend may experience. As bad as it is to lose one of our furkids, I can't imagine what it would be like to lose one due to an poorly planned breeding. Are you financially able and prepared to pay for an emergency c-section in the middle of the night? 

I would also invite you to view this video as these babies are the result of breeding situations like you are wanting to experience. NCMR video
Are you willing to financially support a puppy that might be born with issues such as you see here? If not and you decide to euthanize, will you hold the baby while he dies?


----------



## sassy's mommy

QUOTE (lynnecpa @ Jul 9 2008, 09:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=602436


> Cindy,
> 
> Welcome to Spoiled Maltese. I'm so glad you found us. There are a bunch of great people here with a lot of experience and more than willing to share and educate.
> 
> The sad thing about what you are wanting to do, is that many people do not have any idea that they are doing something they really shouldn't be. Growing up, there were always dogs around, not a purebred, planned pregnancy among them. Most were strays that adopted us. They were never desexed. The biggest worry we had if one got pregnant was what we were going to do with all those puppies. If a puppy didn't make it, it just "wasn't meant to be." Honestly, it never dawned on me that genetics played the biggest role of all. I know, some people are saying - "duh, how can anyone be so dumb!" I guess I thought dog breeding was just a nature thing. That is, until I found this forum. I'm sure you are a great person, who just didn't realize the implications of what you are wanting to do. Please do stop and consider all that has been shared with you.
> 
> There's still another angle to be considered. You said the female belongs to a friend of yours. Are you prepared to listen to your friend cry if her fluffbutt dies while trying to give birth? There are many threads on this board about problem births. Please search and read them to help you have a better understanding of what you/your friend may experience. As bad as it is to lose one of our furkids, I can't imagine what it would be like to lose one due to an poorly planned breeding. Are you financially able and prepared to pay for an emergency c-section in the middle of the night?
> 
> I would also invite you to view this video as these babies are the result of breeding situations like you are wanting to experience. NCMR video
> Are you willing to financially support a puppy that might be born with issues such as you see here? If not and you decide to euthanize, will you hold the baby while he dies?[/B]


Welcome to the group. 


:goodpost:


----------



## vjw

Cindy, besides the health concerns we have, there's a huge pet overpopulation in the US. It is estimated that

*EVERY YEAR*:


6 - 8 million pets enter shelters

3 - 4 million are euthanized, in part because there aren't enough homes for them.




This is why so many of us are passionate about not bringing any more pets into the world, especially those which don't meet breed standards.


----------



## Max & Rocky

Cindy,

Just about everyone here is a big supporter of Maltese Rescue in some way or is actually in a Maltese Rescue organization (like myself). Right now, there are many Maltese all over the country without homes or in rescue and I personally know of several put down by animal "shelters" simply because there was no one there in time to adopt them.

We really can be a friendly bunch of people but when someone posts questions like this (their first post by the way) which clearly indicate that they should not be breeding,we get a little defensive of our Maltese. 

I really hope that you will reconsider your plan and stick around here for a while.


----------



## MaryH

Hi Cindy,

I'm not sure what is motivating you to breed, but what has motivated many who have a girl and their family member/friend has a boy is that they both want another puppy, neither can or wants to spend the money to buy another one so "let's breed our girl and boy, get puppies, keep one each and sell the rest to cover vet bills." Perfect plan?? WRONG. Worst case scenario is that the bitch dies in whelp because you don't know what you are doing. Almost as bad is that you get a single puppy who grew so big in utero that you need to have a c-section. If you spend the money to x-ray ahead of time you can probably avoid the additional charge for an emergency visit. But if you don't x-ray first an emergency section will cost way more (a non-emergency section around here is generally $600-$1200). Now that you've got a single puppy how do you split the litter? Here comes the fight and the eternal hard feelings between you and your friend. Not only does breeding cost money but lots of times it costs a friendship, too. If you are breeding to save money you could find out that you stand to lose more that you will gain.

MaryH

p.s. Unless he's too immature to be bred, you shouldn't have to stimulate your male.


----------



## Ladysmom

In addition to what everyone else has said, has anyone told you about the behaviorial changes your male will go through after he has been used a a stud? Stud dogs will mark (lift his leg) and usually don't care if it's a tree outside or your living room couch. He will know if there is a female in heat within miles and whine and pace and may stop eating. He will try to escape so he will be at risk of being hit by a car. 

Please educate yourself much more before you try to just put two dogs together to make puppies.


----------



## pebble's mama

QUOTE (lynnecpa @ Jul 9 2008, 09:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=602436


> Cindy,
> 
> Welcome to Spoiled Maltese. I'm so glad you found us. There are a bunch of great people here with a lot of experience and more than willing to share and educate.
> 
> The sad thing about what you are wanting to do, is that many people do not have any idea that they are doing something they really shouldn't be. Growing up, there were always dogs around, not a purebred, planned pregnancy among them. Most were strays that adopted us. They were never desexed. The biggest worry we had if one got pregnant was what we were going to do with all those puppies. If a puppy didn't make it, it just "wasn't meant to be." Honestly, it never dawned on me that genetics played the biggest role of all. I know, some people are saying - "duh, how can anyone be so dumb!" I guess I thought dog breeding was just a nature thing. That is, until I found this forum. I'm sure you are a great person, who just didn't realize the implications of what you are wanting to do. Please do stop and consider all that has been shared with you.
> 
> There's still another angle to be considered. You said the female belongs to a friend of yours. Are you prepared to listen to your friend cry if her fluffbutt dies while trying to give birth? There are many threads on this board about problem births. Please search and read them to help you have a better understanding of what you/your friend may experience. As bad as it is to lose one of our furkids, I can't imagine what it would be like to lose one due to an poorly planned breeding. Are you financially able and prepared to pay for an emergency c-section in the middle of the night?
> 
> I would also invite you to view this video as these babies are the result of breeding situations like you are wanting to experience. NCMR video
> Are you willing to financially support a puppy that might be born with issues such as you see here? If not and you decide to euthanize, will you hold the baby while he dies?[/B]



That was an amazing video. Thanks so much for sharing it.


----------



## binniebee

Welcome to SM! There is a lot of good information here for you to learn from! I have had Maltese for the last 15-16 years but have learned more in the last year on SM than I learned in all those first 14 years of owning (or being owned by) a Maltese!

When I was very young (about 19 or 20) and had a AKC registered Yorkie (which I bought from a pet shop at 5 mos of age) an acquaintance of mine I ran into mentioned that she had a female that she would like to breed to my male. Well, I had no clue about such things. I didn't know about Back Yard Breeders, Puppy Mills, Bloodlines (I thought the *one* champion *4 *generations back on my Yorkie's AKC was great! Duh!) or genetic health concerns, and certainly was ignorant about breeding dogs. At least I had the male, so I wasn't worried about him dying during the pregnancy or complications and possible death(s) during birth, including the bitch. I did not know how scary all of this was. 

Anyway, to make a long story short, the bitch miscarried, and probably a good thing. Obviously the bitch's mom knew no more about this than I did and she was just lucky not to have lost her baby. I did lose a Basset Hound bitch due to ignorance and breeding closely after this time (I was still only about 20). I had her bred to a "reputable" male, but she went into false labor and then stopped labor and they all died inside her and it killed her. So sad. I was so ignorant of the dangers.

All this I've said is just to show that no matter what stance we take now, we haven't all always known better than what you are proposing to do. But, we have learned throughout the years, trial and error, reading up on the subject, that breeding just any two dogs and being totally ignorant of the forces behind this reproduction is very dangerous. To both your dogs and the (perhaps) puppies. You do not want to kill your beloved pets for the sake of reproduction. You do not want to manufacture Maltese that are not of the best quality, both in appearance but especially in health.

I hope you make a good decision and do not get offended by all the advice given here.

Cyndi


----------



## binniebee

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Jul 9 2008, 11:17 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=602510


> In addition to what everyone else has said, has anyone told you about the behaviorial changes your male will go through after he has been used a a stud? Stud dogs will mark (lift his leg) and usually don't care if it's a tree outside or your living room couch. He will know if there is a female in heat within miles and whine and pace and may stop eating. He will try to escape so he will be at risk of being hit by a car.
> 
> Please educate yourself much more before you try to just put two dogs together to make puppies.[/B]



Good Grief, was this ever true of the Yorkie that I mentioned letting be used as stud one time! He did NOT care where he peed, just as long as it was about 7 times per need, and in 7 different places in whosever's house! What a nightmare. Poor little guy. I ended up giving him to my mother-in-law when he was 7 1/2 yrs old because I had just had baby #2, we had just bought a new house (which he was proceeding to "mark" every room), and my MIL had just lost her Schnauzer of 19 years! She LOVED my Yorkie (and I did, too) but I was about to have to start a job, and with the new house, baby, job...it just seemed she would be the better parent at that time, plus I could see him whenever I wanted.

That marking problem can really be a problem. Especially if you visit relatives and friends much. They do NOT appreciate it in their homes!

Cyndi


----------



## jaceybaby

Sorry my SPAYED Maltese, who was going to have an unwanted litter when I got her spayed, needs me!

PLEASE fix the dogs. Shelters don't need any more dogs.


----------



## kristie_b1

QUOTE (Pebble's Mama @ Jul 9 2008, 08:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=602845


> That was an amazing video. Thanks so much for sharing it.[/B]


That video made me cry so bad. :smcry: I just had my male neutered today. It was traumatic for me because there were many concerns that his body couldn't handle the anesthesia. (He woke up and is fine though). I naively adopted him out of the newspaper - not from a professional breeder. He has so many health problems. 

However, I knew the importance of neutering, so even though I waited till he was a year and a half I still got it done and watched him like a hawk/kept him on leash constantly to make sure he didn't run off and impregnate any unsuspecting female. (He never escaped either! I'm good! haha).

Anyways, I'm with the rest of them, don't mate the dogs!  Fix 'em and watch the video!


----------



## domino_angel

My Chloe was spayed today! I thought for about half a second about breeding her, and of course...NO!! I couldn't risk the life or health of my precious baby! Much less the fact that I know _diddly_ about breeding...


----------

