# Any other maltese's with diabetes?



## lynziejean (Jun 2, 2005)

Our maltese was recently diagnosed with diabetes. We have been going to the vet weekly to have her levels checked. She has yet to be regulated. The vet said that the average life span is about 18 months. Are your babies regulated and how long have they been dealing with the illness? Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated. She is given a shot once a day of 6 units. The vet bumped her units up to 6 a day because her levels were about 450.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

dogs live years with diabetes...im confused..ur vet said they would live only 18 months? as long as u feed them right and keep them regulated then she can live a long life.


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## lynziejean (Jun 2, 2005)

Sorry... the vet said on average dogs with diabetes live only 18 months. He said something to the degree that it depends on if they are able to get her regulated. If they aren't she won't live as long. Is that typical? She acts normal now that she is getting insulin. I just can't imagine losing her that soon. It has been about a month since the diagnosis and she seems to be coping well with the shots. 

He told us that it was a very serious decision to make and that a lot of owners choose to put the animal down. That was not an option for us. I just don't want her to suffer and at this point I don't think she is. She is like our baby.
Thank you so much for your help!!

Lindsay


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

a lot of people dont make all the appointments for glucose curves and make sure they keep their pups regulated. if u r strict on everything and do all u can i dont see why she cant live a long life. u sound like the type of owner that can do this. it can take a while to figure out the insulin dose, but once regulated it is important to have glucose curves by ur vet routinely to make sure the insulin dose stays appropriate.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Even the Vetsulin does not tend to regulate dogs well on once a day dosage. We don't even start them on once a day any more. I would really sit down and discuss things with your vet. 2 years is awfully young for a dog to become diabetic. And the 18 month thing is ridiculous. We have elderly dogs who become diabetic and do well for many years.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Hi, Yes my little Missy was dx with diabetes at age 7. She also had many other health problems including bladdr cancer , heart problems and bad discs in her back. She passed last July ( over 3 years into diabetes and her passing was NOT!! from diabetes and in fact her blood glucose was in good range even on the day she passed.
I am a moderator on a petdiabets site. It is one of the most informative ones out there ith loads of information available ( organized well so you can read and get informaed at your own pace) plus a very very active message board) here's the link:
http://p090.ezboard.com/fpetswithdiabetescaninediabetes


here's the link to the Home page where the menus for information are located:
http://www.petdiabetes.org/index.html


First I want to tell you we have many many dogs on this board that have had diabetes 4-5 plus years and still going strong!

My Missy was dx fairly early and immediately started on Humulin "N' @ 2 x day.... ( food/shots 2 hours apart)
There have been many dogs started on the Vetsulin and many have had to switch to the Humulin "N" to get good regulation. Though some have done "ok" with the Vetsulin... they did better after the switch. .. and either one MUST be give 2 x day. None that I can recall have done really well on the advised 1x day with either insulin.
Vetsulin is relatively new to the US market. It has been used in Europe and other countries for some time under the name "Caninsulin". It was 'promoted as a 1 x day insulin but even at that the ones who have used it found by way of curves that 2x day improved the bg readings.
One mistake some vets here have made other than prescribing on 1 x day... is the food. For years vets have used Humulin "N" or "L" ( both human insulins... both working better with a high fiber diet). the high fiber helps slow absorbtion so food and insulin are working together. However it has been found from the experience of most on the board that the slower food absorbtion is not a good thing with the Vetsulin. The "fast-acting" part of the vetsulin goes in pretty quickly so therefore NEEDS the food there.
I personally ( as well as our vet) prefer the Humulin "N" insulin for regulation... used with a high fiber diet and given 2 x day.
I also like the fact that with the Humulin N the needles available are finer therfore giving shots is easier and more comfortable for the pooch. Especially with a little dog like a Maltese since the rotation area for shots is much smaller than for a larger dog.
I assure you given the right insulin type and dose.. foor ..consistancy... your little 'sweetie-dog" should live a good long and happy "healthy" life. I am convinced were the diabetes the only health problem Missy had she'd have lived a good long life.
I did learn to home blood test with the support of our vet. This too helped me to keep Missy's Bg in line and therfore no "traumas"
I suggest first and foremost you go to the diabetic board link I provided. Second I suggest you get a notebook to record everything .
If there are too much of swings in the bgs which I believe would be with only 1 x day and/or just not a bg level down to where it belongs then yes, damage to eyes, organs is a greater risk. 
If I can help you in any way don't hesitate to ask!


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Sorry to say but this is bullsh... 
My late lhasa was 8 years old when diagnosed with diabetes. And besides that he was allergic to everything under the sun. He lived 4 MORE YEARS. And we did not put him down because of the diabetes. After he was diagnosed he stayed at the vet 1-1/2 day maybe 2 days (it's a long time ago) and we knew how much insulin to give him. He got 2 shots a day, amount depending on the urine test before giving the shots. He was very well regulated. The way we did it, we not even had to pay attention to how much he ate.


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## lynziejean (Jun 2, 2005)

It is great to hear stories of all of your pets living much longer. That is so good to hear!!. We realized there was a problem when she lost some weight and was drinking and peeing in excess. When we took her to the vet he told us she lost 2 lbs. She weighed 8.5 and was down to 6.5. I knew she felt skinny but I didn't know she had lost almost 1/3 of her body weight. THe vet said he thought it was diabetes or cushings disease and did some bloodwork. We took her in on a Friday and she was diagnosed on Saturday. They started her on 1 shot a day of 2 units... a two weeks later to 4 units... a week after that 6 units...still not regulated...He told us not to change her food until she is regulated. Should I get a 2nd opinion. The vets staff adores Lacy. We really like the vet but if she isn't getting the proper treatment for her then we need to look around for another. 

I did a lot of research and I heard about the pee strips. IF she pees on a pee pad and we use the urine from the pee pad to test will it give an incorrect reading or will the chemicals in the pee pad not affect it?

Thanks again to everyone. I feel so much better!!!!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

> It is great to hear stories of all of your pets living much longer. That is so good to hear!!. We realized there was a problem when she lost some weight and was drinking and peeing in excess. When we took her to the vet he told us she lost 2 lbs. She weighed 8.5 and was down to 6.5. I knew she felt skinny but I didn't know she had lost almost 1/3 of her body weight. THe vet said he thought it was diabetes or cushings disease and did some bloodwork. We took her in on a Friday and she was diagnosed on Saturday. They started her on 1 shot a day of 2 units... a two weeks later to 4 units... a week after that 6 units...still not regulated...He told us not to change her food until she is regulated. Should I get a 2nd opinion. The vets staff adores Lacy. We really like the vet but if she isn't getting the proper treatment for her then we need to look around for another.
> 
> I did a lot of research and I heard about the pee strips. IF she pees on a pee pad and we use the urine from the pee pad to test will it give an incorrect reading or will the chemicals in the pee pad not affect it?
> 
> Thanks again to everyone. I feel so much better!!!![/B]


have they done a glucose curve on her...which is where they keep her all day and give insulin and meal in am and take blood glucose every hour to see when the insulin wears off?


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## lynziejean (Jun 2, 2005)

No we haven't had a glucose curve test. Should we request it?


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

u really need one....b/c u dont know if the dose u r at is working enough, or if it is working just fine in the morning, but is wearing off midday and she needs two shots. if they keep increasing her dose....they could get her glucose too low and that can be bad. does this make sense? can i can look for something to explain it better if u need it


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## lynziejean (Jun 2, 2005)

We will talk to our vet about a glucose curve test. I think I understand. She could be pumped with to much medicine in the morning and by the evening it has worn off and she is not receiving the benefits of the medicine.. Is that right?? It makes a lot of sense. Thanks for your advice!!



Just wanted to let everyone know that putting her down was not an option just something the vet told us to really consider if we wern't serious about treating her correctly because it wasn't fair to her.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

> We will talk to our vet about a glucose curve test. I think I understand. She could be pumped with to much medicine in the morning and by the evening it has worn off and she is not receiving the benefits of the medicine.. Is that right?? It makes a lot of sense. Thanks for your advice!!
> .[/B]


yes u pretty much have it...yes talk to ur vet about it...if they r not comfortable with the curve..im sure they can refer u to someone that can do it.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Yes the curve is very important to see how the food/insulin dose is working. 
To fully understand what a curve will show:
The food shot is given in the AM ... the insulin "kicks in" (called onset) with some it is within an hour. This is called the onset... but it is only the insulin beginning to get into the system. It continues to increase in "strength". 
The blood draws every couple of hours monitors the bg levels.. the insulin builds up in the system to a point called 'peak". This means it's the point of when the insulin is strongest and the bg brought lowest from that previous shot. In the case of Humulin N it is on average 5-6 hours ( though some exceptions as with my Missy where it was 3 hours). This peak time is important to know as it is the more likely time a hypo can happen). 
After the "peak' is reached the curve shows how the bg slowly starts to climb again as the insulin slowly starts to "weaken" or wears off . It shows the duration. This is the reason that most need the 2 x day shots, as the duration on the whole is about 12 hours.
I have seen so many dogs with only 1 x day shot and this is what happens: the shot given as you can see it does 'wear off' ( usually after 12 hours)..so bg rises overnight. Dog gets a spot check.. the bg level is still high ( form no insulin overnight) the dose is raised... again it wears off.. anothe test and bg high dose is raised...etc. now as you can see there can become a danger at that "peak" time I mentioned above.. as the Bg can go too low ( cause a hypo).. or another problem can happen and does frequently... a situation arises called somogyi rebound. It's the body's own defense when Bg drops too much and bg goes very low... and can happen if the bg drops too rapidly even if the actual eading isn't too low for hypo. In this case the body 'sees" trouble and sends the bg way high..by pulling the "glucose "( actually another term but for simplicity sake call it glucose) from liver, muscle etc to try to "feed the insulin". This is very simplistic but it gets the idea across.
This rebound can 'appear' that the insulin dose is not enough because the bg is high... when in fact the insulin dose to too much. A curve will show all this and the reason for its importance! 
In case of rebound the insulin dose has to go back lower.. and in case of 1 x day... switched to two x day so that the full 24 hour period is covered and dose is lowered then in small increments raised till you achieve the bg range that is desired.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Our lhasa was on 2 shots a day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. We kept a log on the refrigerator door with how much insulin he got each time. We tested his urine every time before giving a shot. This worked well for us. On the beginning we used a paper cup to catch his urine (somebody watching us doing this must have had a good laugh !) and then later just passed the strip through the urine when he peed. The first times we did this he looked at us in disbelief trying to say "what on earth are you doing".


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