# I'm a little confused



## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

I went to the same pet store today where I bought Cam and held a male maltese puppy. He was a MONTH YOUNGER than Cam and I swear he was twice as big. Another big difference is that the other pups fur was SO THICK compared to Cam's. It was sort of wooly almost. Whereas Cam's is very fine, more silky and more "dryish" on the ends. The same breed and they just seemed SO different from one another!

I know it's probably silly to be so amazed at the differences. It's like when I had my 2nd "skin kid" all I could picture was a clone of my 1st child, lol. It never occured to me that two children coming out of my womb on two different occasions could be so entirely different from one another!! LOL!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Most pet shop puppies from from puppy mills so no care is given to breeding them to the Maltese standard. Often papers are falsified and the puppies aren't even purebred Maltese at all. Many are registered with "alternative" registries besides the AKC who will sell you a set of papers with no questions asked.

That's why you see so many different "variations" of so-called Maltese in pet shops.

Here are some links that explain more:

http://www.fortunecity.com/millenium/safari/84/article1.html

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/petstor.html

http://www.dogplay.com/GettingDog/petshop1.html

http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_adoption_info...uppy/index.html

http://www.nopuppymills.com/


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

I have met so many Maltese, and seen and touched so many different types of coats and I even had someone TRY to teach me what the perfect Maltese coat would feel like and look like.

I think it is like said before, lack of careful breeding, and puppy mill dogs mostly.

Now if we are clearly staying within the Maltese breed, not including the puppy mill dogs, why are there such thin coats and then thicker coats? Fly away hair and matty hair. BEATS Me! Honestly what is the perfect coat? I know the breed standard but it really isn't helpful to me.

Breeders?

enJOY!
Melanie


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

genetics.


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

> Most pet shop puppies from from puppy mills so no care is given to breeding them to the Maltese standard. Often papers are falsified and the puppies aren't even purebred Maltese at all. Many are registered with "alternative" registries besides the AKC who will sell you a set of papers with no questions asked.
> 
> That's why you see so many different "variations" of so-called Maltese in pet shops.
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Yes, I did know those facts--the the petstore breeders are not taking care to adhere to strict standards. Supposedly they breed more for "pet" purposes. Ultimately, they breed for the money







I did wonder if papers had some false info, etc.

Anyway, I can't help but feel a bit defensive about my Cam. I don't care that he's not showroom material--that's not why I bought him. And I just came to comment on how different they are from one pup to the next. Even the standard purebreds are different from one to the next. I wasn't expecting to feel talked down to


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## sweetbabybe (Sep 24, 2006)

Your Cam is the sweetest thing ever! And I don't think anyone is really talking down to you because a lot of us have sweet little pet quality Maltese like you, and even mixes.







Just trying to explain the variations, which can be quite vast. 

The coat and size difference you saw, might be because I heard that some unscrupulous breeders (puppy mills and people who sell to pet stores) will breed a Bichon bitch with a maltese stud. Since the Bichon is bigger she usually has bigger litters with less complications, and the puppies look VERY similar when they are younger, especially to the untrained eye, which means more $ for the unscrupulous breeders. They really don't care, as long as the $ keep flowing in. 

- Becky


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## luvmymacy (Mar 18, 2005)

Cam is adorable and you love him so that's what is important!! All dogs differ one to another in any breed. I know it's important to keep with the standard but, we don't love them any less if their not. IMO


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## Jacki (Jul 13, 2006)

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Hi CamFan,

I really don't think anyone was trying to talk down to you ... so I'm sorry if you are feeling bad right now







But it's just that the reason there is so much variation especially among pet store pups, is breeding. There's no other answer ... different dogs with different backgrounds produce different puppies. Although there are variances between purebreds and show dogs, the reason pups in pet shops are SO "diverse" is the puppy mill breeding practices. The little guy you held the other day could have had a Poodle or a Bichon or something else somewhere in his family tree. You just never know, because puppy mills are breeding for money only -- with no care for the dogs themselves.







The pups that are born in these situations are still lovable and dear and just as deserving of a happy life as any other dog -- we love them NO LESS and they are no less deserving of love -- but the way puppy mills are operated is so awful and sad.









So ... I know I've risked saying too much here, but I just wanted to tell you ... Cam is adorable







and he's lucky to have you ... I honestly don't think anyone here wanted to make you feel bad.
















PS Cam's "full name" is Camden, right? Are you from Maine? Always good to meet a fellow New Englander!


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## ddarlingfam (Mar 30, 2006)

your little cam is a doll. i don't think anyone was trying to make you feel bad they were just trying to answer your question the best they could









Amber


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

> I have met so many Maltese, and seen and touched so many different types of coats and I even had someone TRY to teach me what the perfect Maltese coat would feel like and look like.
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> I think it is like said before, lack of careful breeding, and puppy mill dogs mostly.
> 
> ...


 

Mel, this is what breeding is all about. Getting that perfect, coat, face, movement and of course health and temperment. In most long haired breeds you will see variations of texture and shades of color (yes, even white). Although the standard calls for "silk" and straight there can be slight variations in what that silk is like from larger individual hairs to finer hairs but cool to the touch. Silk is always cool to the touch. And now ya know very little more than ya did before. LOL


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## Lil Boo Boo (Jul 22, 2006)

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I just tested your theory, cool to the touch, because boo has the real downey soft hair and its warm, Dahlia has a coarse, perhaps the word is dry coat and it is warm, but Small frys coat is straight and silky and it is real cool...thanks for the great neat tip.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

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That ugly ducklin might turn out to be a swan after all.


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## Lil Boo Boo (Jul 22, 2006)

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I just tested your theory, cool to the touch, because boo has the real downey soft hair and its warm, Dahlia has a coarse, perhaps the word is dry coat and it is warm, but Small frys coat is straight and silky and it is real cool...thanks for the great neat tip.
[/B][/QUOTE]

That ugly ducklin might turn out to be a swan after all.
[/B][/QUOTE]














She just might....but we wont hold our breath!


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

Thanks everyone.









This being my first pup (I had a true "mutt" as a child, but I was very small), I'm learning a lot as I go along. I did know the basics of quality breeder vs. puppymill breed before I bought Cam. Then I made a decision and bought him. Was it the best decision? Who knows. I guess time will tell. All I know is that here in my household we love him to pieces and it's only been less than 3 weeks!

I've learned a lot more in depth about all these issues from sources like this forum as time goes on. It's really been invaluable! Would I make the same decision next time around? I really can't say. I think I will have alot more "education" under my belt at that time, when/if that ever comes, you know?

Looking forward to hanging around here for quite some time!! Thanks again, everyone.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Just you wait, in another month you'll be posting about another maltese sighting at Petsmart and you'll be patting yourself on the back because you were able to tell the difference between a maltese that fits the standard and one that is less refined and most likely from a puppymill, given the info that the maltese owner shared with you. It will make you thank your lucky stars for your little Cam too. 

I really don't think anybody was talking down to you. The explanation of puppy mills has a lot to do with why there is such an extreme. And many times those dogs that are purchased from places other than reputable breeders are sold with no spay/neuter contract, so there is nothing preventing those dogs from being bred if the owner thinks it'd be fun to have puppies. I can't tell you how many times I have been approached asking if I want to breed Lucy to their male. I've even said that she was on a spay/neuter contract and I've gotten the answer of 'So?' I've been asked on myspace, dogster, yahoo and in person on several different occasions. 

My answer lately has become a bit more snobby but I always try to let them know it's not really cool without being rude. It goes ignored, I'm sure. *sighs*


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## pburnette (Jun 15, 2006)

> I went to the same pet store today where I bought Cam and held a male maltese puppy. He was a MONTH YOUNGER than Cam and I swear he was twice as big. Another big difference is that the other pups fur was SO THICK compared to Cam's. It was sort of wooly almost. Whereas Cam's is very fine, more silky and more "dryish" on the ends. The same breed and they just seemed SO different from one another!
> 
> I know it's probably silly to be so amazed at the differences. It's like when I had my 2nd "skin kid" all I could picture was a clone of my 1st child, lol. It never occured to me that two children coming out of my womb on two different occasions could be so entirely different from one another!! LOL![/B]






We, as reputable breeders, have spent years and years trying to develop the correct Maltese coat. It takes alot of study to breed one dog to another and to study the ancestry of each. We also study to confirmation, temperment, etc. to breed the best Maltese possible. It is such an interestin hobby to see what fabulous Malese one can produce. You don't just put two Maltese or even two Champions togehter.


Going to the mall? 

You're in the mall, and you just have to stop and look at those cute little doggies playing in the window of the pet shop.  You go in, almost in spite of yourself, and before you know it, you have one of those cute little darlings in your arms, or you're sitting on the floor in a puppy room with a little one to cuddle.  “How much?" you ask, finding the licks and tail wags impossible to resist. 

“Only $600,” the salesperson says.  “Special this week.  He was $950.”   And the next thing you know, you're walking out of the pet shop with a puppy all your own. 

You probably have no idea that you are helping to finance one of the biggest torture machines in the animal world.  Puppy mills, where the majority of pet shop puppies come from, are cesspits of filth and disease, where dogs are kept confined in cages all their lives -- till their feet are deformed and their fur falls away from their bodies in mats. 

The mother of the puppy you hold in your arms is probably exhausted, starving, sick; has never run on the grass in a yard or felt loving arms cuddle her.  She has never known kind voices or a full meal or a warm clean bed to sleep in. 

She has never been brushed.  She sleeps on wire.  Her toenails will grow around until they cut into her pads.  She will pace back and forth compulsively, if her cage is big enough for her to move.  Feces and urine may drop down on her from the other little dogs in cages stacked above her.  She shivers in winter and pants in summer, with no shelter to protect her from freezing winds or blazing sun. 

She may die this month, from any of a number of ailments.  If not, she might wish she did -- if she could wish.  She will die young -- whether from neglect and abuse or from being shot when she no longer produces puppies for sale. She will not be “adopted.”  She will not be loved.  She will die alone. 

Your new puppy's litter mates may have died in the cage with him in the truck on the way to the store.  They were only five or six weeks old, after all -- too young to eat dog food, too sick to care, too lonesome for their mother. 

Your puppy is one of the “lucky” ones.  But another puppy you saw in there just last week was not so lucky.  He was sick.  He died because it would have cost the pet shop too much money to call a vet to have him treated.  So they let him die. 

Yours may die too, if he has a congenital defect -- something puppy mill breeders do not care about.  Kidney failure, blindness, hip dysplasia, deafness, behavioral problems ... the list goes on and on.  Will you be attached enough to your puppy to get it to a doctor?  Or will it die too?  If it is sick or does die, the pet shop will not give you back your money. They'll give you another puppy instead.  That's how they make their money.  Puppies are cheap. 

To irresponsible pet shops and to puppy mills, puppies are not lives.  They are livestock and inventory -- something to be thrown away if defective. They either don't believe or don't care that dogs suffer pain, hunger, loneliness, fear.  It doesn't fit into the bottom line, and all they care about is their profit margin. 

And how many people don't really think about what's involved before they fork out the money for that little doggie in the window? 

How many of those pets will end up dumped by the side of the road, or in a shelter, only to be put to death when no one comes in to adopt them? 

Far too many.  Animals are dying for want of homes, but the puppy mills don't care.  They just keep breeding more, and more, and more. 

And how many people leave the pet shop with a puppy only to find that they really do not have the personality to have a pet -- or that their pet's personality doesn't mesh well with theirs? 


If you want a dog, if you REALLY want a dog, please don't go to a pet shop, puppy mill, or backyard breeder.

Please go to a shelter and adopt a dog who otherwise will die -- you'd be amazed and sickened to learn how many purebreds end up this way -- 

Or go to a reputable breeder, who cares about the dogs and who raises them in a home where they are socialized and cared for and where they learn how to be loving pets.  And their prices and guarantees for pet quality healthy purebreds are much better than the unknown quality pups in a pet store. 


Phyllis Burnette


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

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good lord, I don't need these lectures. 

I did write a more detailed reply, but I'm not going to bother posting it. I won't change your opinions and you won't change mine.

I'm done posting on this "standards" board. Good luck to you guys.

Edited to add--You should reference and credit the sources of your posts instead of implying (by not referencing) they are your own words--I've read that exact puppymill statement online before.

I understand that good breeders, like yourself, are offended by puppymills--lets face it, puppymills are offensive. And I do think the public should be informed. But here's the other half of the equation--I HAVE purchased a puppymill dog and he is here to stay. He's beautiful, lovable and intelligent and, just like I would rip anybody a new one for offending my biological children, I won't listen to it about my dog either.

Good luck w/ your breeding.


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## dolcevita (Aug 3, 2005)

I don't think anyone was talking down to you or criticizing your dog. Remember that other people read these threads, and someone else might learn something about puppymills that they didn't know before. I'm sure you have a wonderful pup who you love very much, and that's all that matters at this point. No one is elitist here, they just care passionately about these precious little babies and want to make sure that everyone knows about puppymills. We have many members here who have dogs from pet stores, puppy mills, and bybs, and no one loves them any less or looks down on them. Please don't leave because of this; no one meant to offend you. I hope we hear more from you in the future.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Camfan, I'm really am sorry you are offended. I guess people respond in different ways ... I'm one of those who is not easily offended, I guess!









My first Malt, Rosebud, was from a home that bred their two pet shop Malts. Kallie came from exactly the same situation. I had no idea at the time I bought either of them about responsible breeding, the 12-week rule, etc. If it weren't for the information shared on this forum, I probably still wouldn't know. 

I didn't even know about pet shops. Our local Petland has a sign up saying that they don't buy from puppymills. I had no idea about brokers and that, even though Petland didn't buy directly from puppymills, they bought from brokers who did. And I didn't realize that a reputable breeder wouldn't sell to Petland anyway. Over the years, I recommended Petland to lots of people!!























Thank goodness for this forum and the information shared... for now I am enlightened. I won't even walk in the Petland store now. And I try to steer others away, as well. So, I have come a long way in my knowledge regarding dogs and I have to attribute most of it to this forum.

I know how people here feel about all our Malts ... no matter where they started their lives, we all love our own as well as the precious babies of those in our SM family.... pet shop, BYB, neighbor, ... or responsible breeder... we love them all. 

Yet, we have the opportunity to educate, not just those on here now, but the many lurkers and members who will read our words in the future. Some of us just can't sit back and pretend that the pet shop/puppymill connection does not exist. So we share what we know for those who may come here for information now and in the future.

Your Cam is just darling







and I'm glad your family has bonded with him and I hope you all have many, many years of happiness with him. In life, there are times when we make sound decisions and other times when our heart takes over. I'm sure this has happened to most of us whether when buying a car, house, choosing the person we'll marry .... or buying a Malt! All we can do after the fact is acknowledge it and learn from it.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

It's too bad you found the response offensive to you and your pup. But the fact is, for every pup purchased from a mill - another suffers. This is the message many of us so hope to get across so eventually no one will make these purchases and mills will be put out of business. I truly hope you are one of the lucky ones and have a pup that stays healthy and lives a long life.


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

OK, I do apologize for being too defensive--I know where you all are coming from now and you mean no harm.

It's difficult to read where someone is coming from in writing, on a forum. And personally, when I read something that is in response to something that I wrote that is not prefaced by courtesy, kindness and a general "we're all in this together" attitude, it sets me off. It *does* come accross as elitist or arrogant to me. You guys don't know me and vice versa--all we know from each other is the words that we write.

Some people are good at being verbally expressive, others are not. And I suppose I cannot fault them for that--but it is hard not to take personally--especially when the topic of discussion runs very near and dear to your heart.

Anyway, I'm rambling. No offense taken. Since Cam does not meet the specific purebred standards in I don't really have any business posting on the "standards" portion of the forum anyway. Ill stick to the other areas of the forum







Live and learn, right?


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> Yes, I did know those facts--the the petstore breeders are not taking care to adhere to strict standards. Supposedly they breed more for "pet" purposes. Ultimately, they breed for the money
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 OH I hope you did not feel I was speaking down to you at all! I certainly did NOT mean to sound like that at all.

I happen to feel your Cam is HANDSOME and I certainly can see why you love him so much.

Brit thank you, for the information. I do recall the person that was TRYING to teach me about the prefered Maltese coat, did tell me about the cool, vs, warm feeling of the coat. I just testes this theory too and it must be me, coz Bella Mia, Sir Micro and Wookie's coats all feel the same to me. Hmmmm I will have Sara test later for me.

enJOY!
Melanie


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## Cary (Jun 11, 2006)

> testes this theory[/B]


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## Deanna (Jan 14, 2005)

> Yes, I did know those facts--the the petstore breeders are not taking care to adhere to strict standards.[/B]


The fact that they do not adhere to standards is not why people object to "breeders" who supply pet stores. The reason that people object to them is because of the horrible way the dogs are treated. 

Cam is adorable, and yes I see why it's was easy to fall in love with him. But I get upset when people _know_ that pet stores support puppymills and buy from a pet store anyway. The only way we are ever going to stop puppymills and the horrible treatment of animals at pet stores is if people say NO. As long as people continue to buy from pet stores and from online brokers, puppymills will continue to exist and continue harming dogs. 


No one likes it when someone disagrees with a decision they have made, but I hope you see that I am in no way attacking your character or Cam- I am just stating _why_ I disagree with an impulse buy from a pet store. 

Back to your original question...

The reason so many of those "Maltese" don't look like Malts- is because they most likely aren't. Many puppymills breed Malts with a bichon or bichon mix because bichons are bigger and therefore will have a bigger litter therefore making them more money.


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## NYC Neighborhood Dogs (Nov 12, 2006)

I think, if anyone took a poll on any dog related website, we would learn that a great number of very responsible people aquired their first puppy from a retail pet shop.

These shops are available, take credit cards, ask no questions, and, even have sales on their puppies.

My first Maltese was an "impulse" purchase, from a retail pet shop. I had just suddenly lost my 16 y/o Mini Poodle and was in such a state of grief I went to the pet shop here locally. Please note: this was twenty years ago or more. I saw Toby in one of the cages. It was a Saturday. I didn't purchase him. I went home thinking it was too soon. That night, I made a bargain with myself "if he's still there in the morning then he's meant to be mine and JJ wants me to have him."

I was at the shop's door when they opened and he was there and I purchased him.

You see the kinds of rationalizations we make? We're all capable of that sort of emotion. The intense need, and, the ready availability to fill that need.

I think, too, in many areas, finding a "good" breeder isn't all that easy. Being on a wait list for six months, a year, to get the puppy of your dreams can be a difficult wait.

I'm not saying people should purchase on impulse from pet shops. I'm just saying, I think many of us have been there at least once, and, I understand the draw.

I only wish people also understood the risks. Like my nephew Harry, purchased at a NYC pet shop, and two weeks later in for emergency liver shunt surgery, on expensive medicines for life for multiple shunts, later diagnosed to also have megaesophagus, and, chronic dry eye, and, a difficult neuter required for undescended testicles.

His people were reimbursed up to the price they paid for him, but, believe me, the medical bills for this not even one year old puppy are in the multiple thousands more than what they were reimbursed.

They're lucky. He's lucky. They could afford his medical emergencies and afford me to be his full time care giver while they work.

And I don't even want to think about the "mother" or "father" of Harry, where they are, how they live, and the numerous other sick puppies they're producing for sale.

It's not about blame or chastising or condemnation. A discussion like this isn't personal. It's just about education and getting the word out that there are such horrors associated with retail pet shops and the breeding dogs that supply the puppies.

Hugs to you. Your pup is adorable and you're fortunate he's healthy. You didn't do anything wrong.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I think many of us here got our first Maltese from a pet shop or backyard breeder, but wouldn't do it again. That's why it's so important to have these discussions here on SM, to hopefully educate people _before_ they make an unwise purchase.

I recently met a woman with two beautiful Maltese from Bonnie Palmer. She said she had fallen in love with the breed, but mistakenly got her first Malt from a pet shop. It was dead by age 7 and broke her heart.

But she learned.

I wish anyone who is thinking about "rescuing" a puppy from a pet shop could spend one night with me while my Lady's body is wracked with cluster seizures and experience the terror I feel. 

Or spend a day with me and see what I go through to maintain a diabetic dog, the twice daily insulin shots, drawing blood for blood sugar checks, etc. It's a 12 hour schedule with no deviations no matter what else I'd rather be doing.

Loving a chronically ill dog can break your heart and your pocketbook.


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## my baby (Aug 22, 2006)

. Since Cam does not meet the specific purebred standards in I don't really have any business posting on the "standards" portion of the forum anyway. Ill stick to the other areas of the forum







Live and learn, right?








[/QUOTE]


Just a quick response, I have been reading all the posts above, and just had to say that even though gorgeous Cam was bought from a pet shop, maybe with a dubious background? who knows?, it does not mean that he definitly does not meet the maltese standard thats crazy. So I hope you dont stop posting in this section because I am sure there is alot you can offer us in this section. 
I am still waiting for Snoops kennel club papers!! And I have had him since Aug who knows if they will ever arrive, but to me he is perfect!


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## Boobookit (Dec 3, 2005)

*Hi All,*

*Well, after my furbutt died a year ago this past June, from old age as he was 17 years old, I was uneducated about puppymills.....I got Pacino from a breeder who I am sure is a byb. He is registered, healthy and beautiful. We got lucky.*

*But, thanks to my family on this wonderful forum, I have learned so much which I am grateful for. I have sat and cried many a night reading about the horror stories on byb and puppy mills. I am soooo educated on it now which is why the second time I went to a rescue.*

*And, as everyone knows we just got our Ralphie! Both my babies are registered, both are healthy. There is no difference in them, Thank God, except Ralphie definitely has the cottony hair while Pacino is more silky, to look at them the hair looks exactly the same but when you feel them you can tell the difference......slight but there. Both are acceptable.* 

*While yes, I agree, that the standards might not be the same when it comes to byb and puppymills, but I also think a lot has to do with genes. Do we care, as Maltese lovers, if our furbabies have cottony or silky hair, or if they are 4 pounds or 8 pounds?? No, we are all here because we truly love our pets and because we are all friends. Do I value all that I have learned on here?? Absolutely, without a doubt this forum has helped me tremendously and I am so grateful to be here. Would I ever go to a byb or a puppy mill...no, but if I walked past one I would STILL have to go past with blinders on because there is just something about the Maltese that I can't resist!!*

*Everyone's furbaby is beautiful, with their personalities and their beauty how can they go wrong??*



*Marie, Pacino & Ralphie.*


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

> I think many of us here got our first Maltese from a pet shop or backyard breeder, but wouldn't do it again. That's why it's so important to have these discussions here on SM, to hopefully educate people _before_ they make an unwise purchase.
> 
> I recently met a woman with two beautiful Maltese from Bonnie Palmer. She said she had fallen in love with the breed, but mistakenly got her first Malt from a pet shop. It was dead by age 7 and broke her heart.
> 
> ...



I absolutely agree that you're taking a chance with a puppymill dog AND, like I said, I'm not sure I'd do it the same way again--it wouldn't make sense to given the depth of info that I have now that I did not have before. I think I only scratched the surface in my previous research. 

It would be interesting to actually have statistics and precentages of dogs lifespans coming from the two different sources (puppymills vs. breeders)--and from an unbiased source--not an animal rights anti-puppymill group OR a good breeder. An impartial souce. It's a no brainer that a puppymill dog can be predisposed to genetic faults that would shorten his lifespan AND inhumane treatment that would could cause abnormalities to develop. But surely not every dog from a reputable breeder is guaranteed to live into their senior years either. Better odds? Sure. I wonder how much better? That would be interesting to find out. I'm a "show me the numbers" kind of gal. lol.

Anyway, I don't, by any means, wish to stir the pot. I do really well with statistics and numbers as proof--not necessarily stories, etc.

I'm so sorry your baby is diabetic and has to go through daily treatments. How awful! I never understood how a person could love a dog so much until I got Cam (I had dogs when I was a very little girl).


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Cam looks like a sweetheart and he is lucky to have you and your family! I just want to welcome you to our group. I think most of us got started with the breed in a similar way you did. My Frosty is going to be 15 in about 3 mos. and came from a family who had 2 Malts and bred them---in other words a backyard breeder (BYB).



As the years have gone by I've been asking questions and learning. Would I do the same thing again, No. Frosty has meant more to me than any animal before him. I would not trade my 15 years with him for anything







----but I've learned enough about the breed and breeding practices (genetics) to know I would like a Malt some day with a bigger chance of the temperament, health, and the appearance I've come to love in the breed. One that I know was bred with loving care and the thought and education in Maltese genetics he deserves. That's a personal thing, and in no way means I would not love any little dog who became part of my family no matter their appearance of history. It does mean I agree with those who want like h**l to somehow stamp out mills and brokers who cause the little mommie and daddy dogs to live in such deplorable conditions as livestock for instruments of the almighty $$$$!











Loving a Maltese makes you want to know who they are, where did they come from, how did they get this way. You'll be amazed at how the personality traits and funny little things they do are the same as the furbabies you'll read about here!







There isn't one of us no matter how long we've had Malts or how many we have, that isn't still learning! So enjoy the process. We all do!


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=287529
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I don't believe the lifespan is the issue. It's the treatment of these poor little ones in the puppymills. It's about putting a stop to these idiots who are breeding dogs to death. Who are passing on genetic defects, over and over again. The only way to accomplish this is to stop supporting them.

I'm sure my Billy Boy will live a ripe old age.


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## Deanna (Jan 14, 2005)

No matter what personal jusitification someone comes up with to ease their mind--- all they must do is take a look at little Billy and realize that nothing could justify this. 

Billy is one of the "lucky" ones, he found his way to a home with people who love him and can care for his special needs. 

There are all kinds of justifications we can come up with to tell ourselves that what we did is different and why its ok, but in reality every single time an animal is purchased from a pet store, a broker, or a puppy mill the message that is being received by those places is "the demand is there". It is our responsibility to get the message out that those places, those conditions and that sort of treatment of animals is not in demand and will not be tolerated. As soon as people stop buying those animals they will stop breeding them. It's the only way to make it stop. 

/getting off soapbox now!


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## Jacki (Jul 13, 2006)

> No matter what personal jusitification someone comes up with to ease their mind--- all they must do is take a look at little Billy and realize that nothing could justify this.
> 
> Billy is one of the "lucky" ones, he found his way to a home with people who love him and can care for his special needs.
> 
> ...


Right. I'll throw on a disclaimer here, I have a tendency to get fired up.







So I apologize in advance if I do!!







It all comes from the deep hurt in my heart for the animals who are being mistreated -- it is NOT meant to hurt anyone or put down any of the sweet pups here, because all are precious! 

That said, I agree with Deanna that there is NO way to justify what is taking place in puppy mills. It's the difference between saying "we CAN do something about puppy mills and there IS a way to stop them" and saying "since it's happening and can't be stopped we might as well buy the puppies and give them a home". 

But for every person who says that second statement, for every puppy that is "saved", another will take its place. Another will suffer. Another may find a loving home, like Cam has. But another may end up with medical problems like Billy has -- and not all pups who have special needs like Billy find their way to a "mom" as loving as Deb!!! Friends of mine recently had their "labradoodle" or "goldendoodle" (I forget which mix it was) PUPPY put to sleep because of severe behavioral problems they could not afford to treat.









Many people do not know about where pet store animals come from, but for those of us who do, that knowledge bears a heavy responsibility. As an animal lover I find it hard to bite my tongue when I have information to share in defense of animals! 

Okay, off soapbox, back to work


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## NYC Neighborhood Dogs (Nov 12, 2006)

20/20 hindsight is wonderful. I have it now. I didn't have it twenty years ago when I purchased my first Maltese at the pet shop.

We need to understand, there is a whole world out there that is still oblivious to the horrors of mass producing animals for retail sale.

Dateline started a great expose and then backed out with their follow up episode, probably due to pressure from Hunte Corporation and other major ad purchasers.

Few people in NYC now remember that Le Chien purchases Maltese, Toy Poodles, etc., from farms in Pennsylvania (they were one of the high toned shops exposed for purchasing and getting deliveries from Hunte Corp.)

This issue is sooooooooooooooo complex. It might be better to have a discussion like this broken out so that it doesn't feel like someone is being raked over the coals for having purchased their Maltese at a pet shop.

What's done is done and I'm sure everyone wishes a long happy life for Cam. And I hope Cam's owner understands the passion in our voices isn't directed at Cam, but, at the store that sold him and the puppy mill that produced him.

And I agree, we can never be silent. Every opportunity to raise awareness must be taken.

I fear nothing will change unless Pet Shops are required to have photo's of Billy on their counters and disclose where the puppies come from with photo's of how the puppies' parents are living, stacked in cages one on top of the other.

PS: I only mentioned perhaps breaking such a discussion out because this started as an innocent enough question about Maltese breed standard and turned into a discussion of retail sales and puppy mills. Relevant in explaining why there are many variations in looks and sizes of "Maltese" but truly, even a breeder can have Maltese that are off the standard, might have a bit of a pig nose, might lack some black point somewhere, may be a little smaller, a little bigger.


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## my baby (Aug 22, 2006)

What happened to poor billy in the picture?
He looks like he is so sore?


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=287627


<div class='quotemain'>That is what I love to call "Maltese Magic". Adsolutely amazing, isn't it?

enJOY!
Melanie


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## thelittlepet (Apr 18, 2006)

CamFam, please don't take offense to the statements. My yorkie, Gidget, is a petstore puppy. My first malt Ivory came from a small show breeder and my second two malts are from a slightly larger but still small show breeder. It is a cse of when I knew better, I did better. I did not know the life of the other littermates or of the parents of my yorkie. I did not know the life of the parents or littermates of my first malt. But I know very well how the parents and littermates of my malts Lily and Bentley live and it pleases me. I know they have lives that I don't have to worry about. That is ultimately what drove my decision. When I saw my yorkie, I just thought of that minute and I would not trade her for the world, she is the reason I have passion for this debate. Her spirit warmed my heart for the humane and kind treatment for every animal everyday. 
Aimee


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