# Leptospira Vaccine



## mistletoe (Mar 4, 2018)

Hello, dearest Maltese mommies.

To start it off, I am a doctor but not a vet. As a doctor I am a pro vaccine as I know it does help humans. HOWEVER, as I read more and more into this forum I am starting to feel nervous about the shots my puppy got and she already had a Lepto shot and 2nd DHPP (she is 12 weeks now). The vet told us to come back next month = when she is 4 months old, to receive DHLPP+rabies (omg!).

I live in Bali, where there are a lot of wild animals urine everywhere. So, what are your recommendations?
1. Is Lepto shot TOTALLY and strongly discouraged to be administered to Maltese puppies?
2. What happened if she already had her shot, should I continue or stop here?
3. Should I wait and postpone the next DHLPP booster and rabies vaccine until she is 6 months old?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

Many of us on here do NOT do the lepto vaccine but maybe where you live circumstances are different. Hopefully someone else will chime in with advice. I can recommend that you space vaccines out though. When you go back for the next booster wait for at least 2 weeks after the booster to get the rabies shot. By only giving one vaccine at a time it will lessen the chances of a reaction and if there is a reaction you will then know which vaccine it came from.


----------



## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

There are many different strains of leptospirosis. Maybe a vet, or veterinary organization, that is more local to you would have information about the prevalece of lepto, the strains that are common and whether they are included in the vaccine that is available to you. 

I've had a number of dogs vaccinated for lepto with no reaction, and one unvaccinated dog who got infected by lepto and got quite ill very quickly. She was fine Friday night and very sick, very lethargic and running a significant fever by Monday. If you are very observant, you can hopefully get a dog with a lepto infection into treatment very quickly. It takes a special lab test to confirm it, though.

I guess I would say that if your dog has had the initial vaccination for lepto and did not have a reaction, then perhaps go ahead with the booster. I'm not trained in medicine, though


----------



## mistletoe (Mar 4, 2018)

pippersmom said:


> Many of us on here do NOT do the lepto vaccine but maybe where you live circumstances are different. Hopefully someone else will chime in with advice. I can recommend that you space vaccines out though. When you go back for the next booster wait for at least 2 weeks after the booster to get the rabies shot. By only giving one vaccine at a time it will lessen the chances of a reaction and if there is a reaction you will then know which vaccine it came from.


Thank you, will DEFINITELY space them but still conflicted about the lepto :'(


----------



## mistletoe (Mar 4, 2018)

mss said:


> There are many different strains of leptospirosis. Maybe a vet, or veterinary organization, that is more local to you would have information about the prevalece of lepto, the strains that are common and whether they are included in the vaccine that is available to you.
> 
> I've had a number of dogs vaccinated for lepto with no reaction, and one unvaccinated dog who got infected by lepto and got quite ill very quickly. She was fine Friday night and very sick, very lethargic and running a significant fever by Monday. If you are very observant, you can hopefully get a dog with a lepto infection into treatment very quickly. It takes a special lab test to confirm it, though.
> 
> I guess I would say that if your dog has had the initial vaccination for lepto and did not have a reaction, then perhaps go ahead with the booster. I'm not trained in medicine, though


Thank you, I will ask the vet. It has been 4 days and I am still watching her for some probable reactions. The only one happened was she was in pain and refused to be held for a couple hours but after that she is back to her normal puppy self again.


----------



## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Regarding the timing of subsequent vaccines, please look at Dr. Jean Dodds’ vaccine protocol. 

Regarding the lepto vaccine, here in the US the vaccine covers four strains while there are 7 active strains that cause the disease. The most recent outbreak in the Chicago area was a strain not covered by the vaccine. Also the lepto vaccine is one that many toy breeds fact to. 

My former vet scared me into getting the lepto vaccine, and Tessa had elevated liver enzymes shortly afterwards. We changed vets and won’t do that vaccine again,


----------



## mistletoe (Mar 4, 2018)

maggieh said:


> Regarding the timing of subsequent vaccines, please look at Dr. Jean Dodds? vaccine protocol.
> 
> Regarding the lepto vaccine, here in the US the vaccine covers four strains while there are 7 active strains that cause the disease. The most recent outbreak in the Chicago area was a strain not covered by the vaccine. Also the lepto vaccine is one that many toy breeds fact to.
> 
> My former vet scared me into getting the lepto vaccine, and Tessa had elevated liver enzymes shortly afterwards. We changed vets and won?t do that vaccine again,


Unfortunately, I don't live in the US that is why I am still contemplating. There are many many rats and monkeys and stray dogs everywhere here :")
I did however do my research thanks to you! The one the vet administered to my dog covers 2 strains - L. icterohaemorrhagiae and L. canicola - does it matter what kind of brands or strains they give with regard to reactions?


----------



## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

In Vienna we lived 3-5 min. walk from the Donau (Danube) River w/much lepto & had tons of rats---so we did give the vaccine one time (no booster) to Lisi on vet advice (maybe this is even when we lived in Greece---can't remember) & have forever regretted it (she had another severe reaction). We also did the lst in a series of 2 Lyme Vaccines for Kitzel due to vets recommendation---Lyme is rampant in Europe---he fortunately had no allergy but if I had been more informed I may not have done that one. I did not do the 2nd shot after reading up on the vaccine.
Lisi gets no more vaccines. I will break the law and if necessary I will pay a penalty before I allow her another vaccine (this is not advice to you) of any kind. 
If your dog has had no antaphylatic reactions or shown no unusual allergiens then talk w/your vet about what is best in your area. No one here will fault you! I agree w/what Maggie said & MSS here. Each situation has its' own wisdom. We are all just normal (I think) people who do the best we can, with advice, because of our love for our breed. There are no perfect situations or outcomes, even if we give it our best. There is a protocol if a pup doesn't take vaccine & gets Lepto---this is something to discuss w/your vet. Lisi must be allergic not to the vaccines themselves but to the additives they put in the vaccines to stabelize it---since she has shown 3 severe & one bad, but not severe reactions to vaccines of different kinds. It must be the adjuvants---at least the vets think so.
edit: 
Reactions to most vaccines are immediate & Lisi had these but w/intervention was saved, but the vasculitis that Lisi developed was slow & developed over a bit of time---so you don't always see the results immediately.


----------



## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

I don't know if different strains provoke different adverse reactions. But the vaccine given to my dogs is a relatively newer one in which the organism is broken up into little pieces and so, they say, is less likely to cause a bad reaction. It contains 4 strains.


----------



## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

4 strains is the best chance---but I don't know which one we had---it doesn't matter any more to me as we won't be having anymore! I would take the recovery protocal here in TX. instead of the vaccine as our risk here is less than overseas---I think! I know in other areas it might be different.


----------



## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

Sandi, I read something that indicates that a 4-strain vaccine in Europe is different from the 4-strain one we get in the U.S. In the European vaccine, they don't have "pomona" but they have "Australis bratislava". The other 2 "ingredients are the same. (And the 2 that Mistletoe's dog got are also in mine and yours.) article from 2014:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016524271300233X


----------



## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

Rabies ... when you give it may depend on the law. When I got my young Maltese puppy in 1996, it was not required until 5 or 6 months in California, as I recall. Now the law has changed and it is supposed to be given much earlier -- I think 3 or 4 months? I can't say I like that.


----------



## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

mss said:


> Rabies ... when you give it may depend on the law. When I got my young Maltese puppy in 1996, it was not required until 5 or 6 months in California, as I recall. Now the law has changed and it is supposed to be given much earlier -- I think 3 or 4 months? I can't say I like that.



Not I either, but it depends on where one lives---state laws are different so best to check on states, counties, etc. Also my 3 yr. rabies vaccine does not cover me to travel internationally---it must be current each year.


----------



## mistletoe (Mar 4, 2018)

Thank you everyone for the information.
As I have already given Missy her Lepto shot and so far no reaction, I will consult the safety and risk-benefit balance again with the vet.

As for rabies, I live in a place of a high-risk rabies so it is compulsory by law. BUT I will definitely postpone it until she is older and heavier by weight.


----------



## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

I do not vaccinate after the initial puppy shots. I titer them when they are due for their one year booster and all have shown enough immunity, so haven't needed another vaccination since, except my youngest failed the rabies titer, so with that, we did half vaccination only.


----------



## LOVE_BABY (May 5, 2015)

maddysmom said:


> I do not vaccinate after the initial puppy shots. I titer them when they are due for their one year booster and all have shown enough immunity, so haven't needed another vaccination since, except my youngest failed the rabies titer, so with that, we did half vaccination only.


*Maddysmom*, Can I ask where you got the Rabies titer please? My vet said there isn't one. Can I ask you what it is called if you don't mind so I can ask my vet for it? Baby will be due soon for a Rabies vaccine and I dread it and would rather titer if they will allow it.

*Misletoe*, As far as the Leptosporosis vaccine goes, our vet here in the USA says it must be administered every 6 months to be effective, and I believe it is administered as drops into the nose, not as an injection. My boy named Baby had a bad reaction to the vaccine so I no longer give it, haven't given one in about 2 years. I try to keep him from sniffing the ground outdoors too much. It is not an easy decision to stop giving the vaccine, sort of a 'dammed if you do, dammed if you don't' sort of situation. I don't live in Bali with monkeys so your situation may be very different than mine I don't know.

Perhaps you can have an over the phone consultation with Dr. Jean Dodds? {she is famous for her knowledge about vaccines} I hear it is very expensive but if you pay for it she will talk to you about your particular 'Bali' situation, at least that is my understanding about what she will do anyway. A few years ago my Baby got quite sick from the Lepto vaccine and we were so worried about him, he was lethargic and just curled up and slept & slept in his bed, he didn't eat or drink and it was really scary. After a day he seemed back to his old self again but the scare for me was enough to make me stop giving the vaccine. But now as a result I am afraid he will contract Lepto, I fear every time he sniffs the ground. It's not easy being a Maltese Mommy or Daddy.:blink:


----------



## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

LOVE_BABY said:


> As far as the Leptosporosis vaccine goes, our vet here in the USA says it must be administered every 6 months to be effective, and I believe it is administered as drops into the nose, not as an injection. :blink:


I think you're describing the bordatella vaccine. Lepto is two injections given two weeks apart.


----------



## maddysmom (Mar 8, 2012)

LOVE_BABY said:


> *Maddysmom*, Can I ask where you got the Rabies titer please? My vet said there isn't one. Can I ask you what it is called if you don't mind so I can ask my vet for it? Baby will be due soon for a Rabies vaccine and I dread it and would rather titer if they will allow it.
> 
> Sandi, I have the blood drawn at my vet and I send all titers to Hemopet (dr. Dodds)
> https://labordatenbank.com/cake/hemopet/samples/hemopet_form


----------



## LOVE_BABY (May 5, 2015)

*Update!: Correction to error in my previous post!*

:smmadder::smscare2:*PLEASE DISGREGARD WHAT I HAD WRITTEN IN MY PREVIOUS POST!{SEE BELOW} I HAD MISTAKENLY MISTOOK THE LEPTOSPOROSIS VACINE FOR THE BORDATELLA VACINE & MISDESCRIBED THE PRECEDURE FOR IT & CHARACTORISTICS OF IT. THE BORDATELLA VACINE IS THE ONE WHICH IS ADMINISTERED BY BEING PLACED IN THE NOSE APARENTLY, I STAND CORRECTED AND DON'T WANT TO SPREAD ANY MISINFORMATION TO THOSE HERE WHO ARE TRYING TO LEARN --:blink:I'M SORRY ABOUT POSTING THE WRONG INFO BELOW PREVIOUSLY --DISREGAURD THE INFO BELOW*:blush:! 

THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT IS FALSEolice:
*Misletoe*,* As far as the Leptosporosis vaccine goes, and I believe it is administered as drops into the nose, not as an injection. *[/QUOTE]

THE FOLLOWING IS THE CORRECTED & TRUE FACT:innocent:
*Bordatella Vacine is administered through the dogs nose, not Leptospirosis Vacine!*


----------



## LOVE_BABY (May 5, 2015)

*Thank You Joanne!*



maddysmom said:


> LOVE_BABY said:
> 
> 
> > *Maddysmom*, Can I ask where you got the Rabies titer please? My vet said there isn't one. Can I ask you what it is called if you don't mind so I can ask my vet for it? Baby will be due soon for a Rabies vaccine and I dread it and would rather titer if they will allow it.
> ...


----------



## mistletoe (Mar 4, 2018)

LOVE_BABY said:


> <img src="http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/images/smilies/smmadder.gif" border="0" alt="" title=":smmadder:" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/images/smilies/smscare2.gif" border="0" alt="" title=":smscare2:" class="inlineimg" />*PLEASE DISGREGARD WHAT I HAD WRITTEN IN MY PREVIOUS POST!{SEE BELOW} I HAD MISTAKENLY MISTOOK THE LEPTOSPOROSIS VACINE FOR THE BORDATELLA VACINE & MISDESCRIBED THE PRECEDURE FOR IT & CHARACTORISTICS OF IT. THE BORDATELLA VACINE IS THE ONE WHICH IS ADMINISTERED BY BEING PLACED IN THE NOSE APARENTLY, I STAND CORRECTED AND DON'T WANT TO SPREAD ANY MISINFORMATION TO THOSE HERE WHO ARE TRYING TO LEARN --<img src="http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/images/smilies/blink.gif" border="0" alt="" title=":blink:" class="inlineimg" />I'M SORRY ABOUT POSTING THE WRONG INFO BELOW PREVIOUSLY --DISREGAURD THE INFO BELOW*<img src="http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/images/smilies/blush.gif" border="0" alt="" title=":blush:" class="inlineimg" />!
> 
> THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT IS FALSE<img src="http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/images/smilies/police.gif" border="0" alt="" title="olice:" class="inlineimg" />
> *Misletoe*,* As far as the Leptosporosis vaccine goes, and I believe it is administered as drops into the nose, not as an injection. *


THE FOLLOWING IS THE CORRECTED & TRUE FACT<img src="http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/images/smilies/innocent.gif" border="0" alt="" title=":innocent:" class="inlineimg" />
*Bordatella Vacine is administered through the dogs nose, not Leptospirosis Vacine!*[/QUOTE]

Sure, thank you for the update.


----------

