# Steroids reducing vaccine effectiveness?



## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

As some of you know, my Lily had a severe reaction to her distemper vaccine. The Intervet modified-live was given. She received an I.V. injection of steroids "to calm" her immune system. As a result, the question has come up about the use of steroids possibly negating the effectiveness of vaccines so I decided to start a new thread on this. I asked my vet about this and she told me that the answer is "no". Sandi's vet (edelwiess-Kitzel) says "yes" it can. I decided to do a little research and this is my conclusion. I think using steroids long-term and/or in high doses can and will suppress the immune system. My vet advises that steroids be given to my 4 pound Maltese from now on before she gets any vaccines, or that I can titer her. In my opinion, over time, my little girl might possibly become immune-suppressed thus negating effectiveness of the vaccines she would receive. I also learned that receiving a vaccine does not mean complete protection from a disease. I have decided that my baby will not be getting anymore vaccines. Please don't panic and think vaccines are "bad". Vaccines have saved many lives, and even wiped out some diseases. However, I believe we need to be careful when and how we use them and I believe some of our babies are not "good candidates" to receive vaccines. I would like to hear any and all comments on this issue as it is an opportunity for us to learn..


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

April, Thank you for posting this.
Check out this web-site: The Vaccine Side Effects and Risks That Can Occur When Immunizing Dogs and Cats.
Look under anaphylactic reactions scroll to: Do we vaccinate the animal again & Generally What Happens. . . point 1.)
This is good information for everyone.


This is contrary to a Canadian Vet. Journal that I also read---so am still researching. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle! I look forward to a good discussion on this.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

:goodpost: I like your conclusions April. There are also antihistamines that are the first thing tried for reactions and given before the vaccine. With severe reactions like your girl had that is not enough however. My stance on the subject is after the last puppy shot there is no more until a titer shows the need. Of course Rabies is another matter since our state laws govern those.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

edelweiss said:


> April, Thank you for posting this.
> Check out this web-site: The Vaccine Side Effects and Risks That Can Occur When Immunizing Dogs and Cats.
> Look under anaphylactic reactions scroll to: Do we vaccinate the animal again & Generally What Happens. . . point 1.)
> This is good information for everyone.
> ...


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Furbaby's Mommie said:


> :goodpost: I like your conclusions April. There are also antihistamines that are the first thing tried for reactions and given before the vaccine. With severe reactions like your girl had that is not enough however. My stance on the subject is after the last puppy shot there is no more until a titer shows the need. Of course Rabies is another matter since our state laws govern those.


 
So, do you titer Shoni for the distemper or just not get it and how do you think your vet feels about this issue? One thing that my vet said that bothered me about Lily's reaction is "this is common."


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

I would opt not to ever give Lily the vaccine she reacted to again. It is hard to tell if she will react to it again or not, but to be safe I wouldn't give it. If benadryl doesn't help with the side effects of the vaccine and the reaction is anaphylactic giving steroids not the route I would take. My dogs health is more important to me than being up an vaccines because my city ordinance says I have to. JMO


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Those of you who have replied so far, do you believe steroids can reduce a vaccine's effectiveness? Also, if steroids can suppress the immune system, wouldn't that make the risk of infection greater?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Your dog was given an anti-inflammatory dose of steroids. This is not enough to suppress her immune system. One single short-acting steroid injection is not going to suppress the dog's immune system.


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## KAG (Jun 1, 2006)

I agree with Jackie about a single dose of steroids not suppressing our babies' immune system. I also know how horrible an adverse reaction to a vaccination can be. I used to titer test. I have come to the conclusion I will not vaccinate my girls ever again, so, titer testing is no longer needed. Of course, that **** rabies shot is due soon. The law is the law. 

One thing I always do is yearly complete blood testing. Some times twice a year. It's important to have a baseline, and, God forbid, anything changes. 

We all have different circumstances, different opinions. One thing for sure is, we all want what's best for our babies.
xoxoxoxooxoxoxoxooxoxoxoxo


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

I also don't think a small amount of steroids occasionally will alter the immune system but the immune system is already compromised somewhat by the nature of Lily having an allergic reaction to something. As I've said before, I'm not as familiar with severe allergic reaction in animals but I certainly am in young children. As I said in your other thread, one of, if not the foremost food allergy docs in the world, told us not to use prophylactic meds like Benedryl or steroids before anything that might cause an allergy because it can mask symptoms that will alert you right away that a reaction is happening. It might cause a bad reaction to go unnoticed until it goes too far and is life threatening. Also when my DS was allergic to eggs, he couldn't have certain vaccines like flu shot. The specialist never told us to take something as a preventative before hand. He told us outright not to take the shot. Period. And to titer in shots that had to be given. It held up on all his school records.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

One of my main concerns, somewhat unrelated to April's ? on suppressed immunity, is: does this steroid AFTER the inoculation diminish OR invalidate the shot that was given. So far what I have read in medical journals is not clear---some say "yes" and some say "no." Does anyone have medical knowledge that would substantiate a clear yes or no? 
My vet also advises against administering antihistamines BEFORE inoculations.
I have anaphylactic reactions to dental anesthesia---I know that the 2nd and 3rd experience can be worse than the first exposure. 
I also had a maltese (living overseas) that reacted to the rabies vaccine which is required for travel internationally. My vet did not want to give the steroid because she felt it would work against the inoculation. For me the jury is still "out" on this issue.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Sandi(edelweiss) and Sue(Snowbody) both raise valid concerns about the use of antihistamines and steroids either prior to or after vaccine is administered. I also agree with Jackie that the steroid given to my girl will not suppress her immune system. It probably helped to save her life! What I have a problem with is giving her a steroid every time she receives a vaccine. This brings us back to Sandi's question..and there is a "divided camp" on this issue, some "yes", and some "no". Thoughts?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

When we talk about giving steroids, the effects depend on the dose. Dogs with a bad hotspot get a very mild dose to reduce the itching. Dogs with Addison's disease get the dose that their body does not make. Dogs with immune disease get a dose to suppress the immune system. A single dose as as an anti-inflammatory does NOT suppress the immune system. If you are that worried, wait a few weeks and titer the dog. If they have a high titer, they responded to the vaccine. Unless your vet gave multiple massive doses of steroids (which I doubt), it will not have long-term side effects and it will not effect the vaccine.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

jmm said:


> When we talk about giving steroids, the effects depend on the dose. Dogs with a bad hotspot get a very mild dose to reduce the itching. Dogs with Addison's disease get the dose that their body does not make. Dogs with immune disease get a dose to suppress the immune system. A single dose as as an anti-inflammatory does NOT suppress the immune system. If you are that worried, wait a few weeks and titer the dog. If they have a high titer, they responded to the vaccine. Unless your vet gave multiple massive doses of steroids (which I doubt), it will not have long-term side effects and it will not effect the vaccine.


Good thought JMM about titering sometime after the vaccine--in the event a steriod was given---to see if the titer is up. 
A friend here in Greece was titering her dog to take it to the UK (rabies) and found out in the process that the first rabies vaccine given to her dog was not effective_ AT ALL_ against rabies. It is *suspected* that the vaccine itself was not good due to being exposed to too high of a temperature (not uncommon in Greece!).


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

aprilb said:


> So, do you titer Shoni for the distemper or just not get it and how do you think your vet feels about this issue? One thing that my vet said that bothered me about Lily's reaction is "this is common."


Sorry April, I didn't see your post until now.
My vets do titers if asked, which I have, so I don't know if they are doing them routinely now or just if asked. In Shoni's case he will be 4 this summer which means it will soon be 3 yrs. since his last puppy shot and the 1 yr. booster he got for distemper/parvo. Most info says the immunity is good for at least 3 yrs., so my vet suggested we titer 3 yrs. from his last shot. I am anxious to see if his is still good. 

In our case Shoni does not go to grooming or any other place of exposure, unless I am carrying him. He does walk in campgrounds some in summer otherwise he is an only pet in our yard. So his exposure is rare. (of course there is always OUR feet to bring in things!) My point is if my dog were going to day camp or classes or shows and groomers etc. I might rethink my very minimal vacs. 

I do trust that the benadryl he has had with his shots did not interfere with immunity, and that a small amount of steroids given with a vac would be no problem. However I am always looking for any new info.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Furbaby's Mommie said:


> Sorry April, I didn't see your post until now.
> 
> I do trust that the benadryl he has had with his shots did not interfere with immunity, and that a small amount of steroids given with a vac would be no problem. However I am always looking for any new info.


An *antihistamine* (benadryl) would not invalidate an inoculation.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

*Vaccine protocol*

I have been doing research on vaccine protocol and looked at articles written by vets on several different websites. This is what I found: Instead of a "one size fits all" protocol, there is a shift to make vaccines more of an individualized thing depending on the dog's lifestyle and environment. I think this is great. Distemper can be given every 3 years after the initial puppy shots. This has already been done with rabies. One of the articles I read mentioned that the parvo vaccine can last for up to 7.5 years. I think it would be helpful for all to know that after the initial shots, work with your vet on a specific vaccine protocol for your Maltese. For my girls, it will be to titer for distemper, parvo, adenovirus once every three years. Rabies has to be given here but we get one every 3 years. I also do not get the bordatella because I do my own grooming and I do not board my girls. I hope this helps those who are confused about when and what vaccines to give. :thumbsup:


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