# Can we discuss large dogs and bully breeds?



## shellbeme (Mar 1, 2011)

Guys, I have always sort of liked american bulldogs and staffordshire bull terriers (pit bulls). I've never wanted one because of the restrictions and the prejudice that follows them but I really like how they look and their size... I've always been against BSL and on the 'it's the owner not the dog' train.

We have so many pit bulls here it's ridiculous-our animal shelters are completely full of them. Sometimes they try to pass a dog off as a 'lab mix' but you can clearly see it's a bully mix-or more bully than anything. I know-there are arguments out there about being able to differentiate between the breeds.. but anyhow....

I am having such a hard time lately feeling like I can stand up for these dogs anymore. Even the people that love them will admit that they are 'dog aggressive'. There is a video on another dog forum of one attacking a baby seal in California-the seal dies. It was on a beach. (Didn't share the link because I don't think anyone here will want to watch it). People were trying to pull the dog off.

On that forum people were saying oh well dogs being dogs, that's what dogs do. That's total BS to me-why? Because I feel like it's often used as an excuse for poor handling. WHY was that dog not under control? I really really think the owner should be heavily penalized for that. I think it's time that owners of dogs that are this powerful and do such harm need to start seriously paying for it.

There was another article I read:
Teenage girl killed by dogs in Britain - RT News
Police investigate UK girl's fatal mauling by dogs - CNN.com

Pit bulls and mastiff-more powerful breeds. WTF? This was someone's kids, not their pet, not a baby seal. I was SO unbelievably upset when I read this.

I don't know what the answer is? I don't believe in genocide and I don't believe in erraticating an entire breed but I think something needs to be done. Maybe permits are needed for certain breeds? Everyday I hear something new and it gets harder and harder to defend these dogs, it's to the point I don't even want to see them. I see them everywhere here, kinda gettin tired of their cause too.

If you have a dog like this you have got to be in control at all times, you know? I am just at a loss...

I know this is a controversial topic, so please don't jump anyone for the views they share. I have been a long time advocate of the pit bull breeds but I'm just finding it all exhausting anymore-and I know it's the owners and not the dogs but seriously.... I am at the point of, who wants a dog that you know has a tendency to attack and kill other dogs? Am I thinking about it all wrong? It has been bothering me a lot lately.


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## Maizy Moo's Mum (Jul 4, 2012)

The story you are discussing has been very big news in the UK and is expremely sad.

Much of the discussion over here relating to this news story is infact that the 5 dogs (only 4 were involved in the attack the 5th was in a crate) were large and strong breed dogs all kept confined in not a very large house and were acting like a pack. It is incredibly sad and i cannot imagine the poor 14 year olds last moments it makes me so cross.

We have a huge problem in shelters over here with Staffordshire bull terriers and similar breeds they are often also sadly in the wrong hands.

Whilst i believe that any dog can turn regardless of size there is a definate difference in the damage that a small breed ie pom, chiuauwa, maltese or yorkie etc compared with a strong large breed dog for exaple mastiff, pitbull and staffie. 

I must also say that on our walks i do avoid these type of dogs this is because there is a certain stigma attatched to them as you say and numerous times on walks we have been confronted by these types of dogs and i do not trust the majority of them that is just my instict though and i am not saying they are all killers as i know this is not true.

Whilst i believe training and owners attitude plays a huge part in bringing up these type of breeds i do still believe that maybe genetics play a part in there behaviour. 

I do not know what the answer is to this topic you cannot simply euthanize a certain breed or get rid of a certain breed when such attacks happen but equally this is so sad and should not be happening. 

The UK news keep stating that new microchipping laws coming in will help these kind of problems but i simply dont agree yes microchipping i think is essential and im glad such laws are being brought in i do not understand how they think that this is going to help with such attacks.

Im not sure if the US is the same but in the UK there are dogs that are under the dangerous dogs act and i personally would like to see in the future more other breeds to be added to this. This is for peoples protection. 

the Pit Bull Terrier
the Japanese tosa
the Dogo Argentino
the Fila Brasileiro
http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/dangerous/


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## babycake7 (Jan 30, 2012)

We have an overpopulation of pit bulls in our area. The shelters here are full of them and on any given day, I can drive around, in town or the country, and will most certainly see at least one or two running loose. A couple of years ago, there was an elderly lady who was taking her morning walk in her neighborhood and she was attacked by one. Luckily, one of her neighbors was outside and he was able to get the dog off of her and she survived without being too badly injured. I love dogs as I am a professional canine handler. But I won't ever own a pit bull. Period. Even if I personally raised it and trained it from puppyhood. I am just not willing to take a chance. I don't know that the breed should be "outlawed" but I do feel that if someone is going to own a pitbull, there needs to be some sort of safety measures in place as far as the age of the owner, the handling ability, secure housing and fencing...just thinking outloud here...maybe you have to apply for a license to own one. Idk...I see a lot of teenagers walking around with pitbulls that clearly have no control over them.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

I have seen some lovely gentle sweet Pit Bulls and Staffy's but I wouldn't have my two little ones any where near them, or children. Even with pretty responsible owners you see way too many cases where "the dog has never done anything like it before" and seriously hurts or maims. On FB right now there is a child that was mauled by one and a little chiwawa managed to annoy the pit enough for it to leave. That dog was put down straight away. I believe it is part of their genetics/breeding. Have you ever tried to stop a terrier from digging etc etc. I know there are sweet nice ones out there, but the consequences are just so severe, due to size and powerful locking jaws. 

Here in Canada they are now banned in several provinces. I know Ottawa has banned them. Here in Vancouver there are loads though. I live in the place known for small white purse dogs, but I am seeing lots and lots more Pits around. Makes me very nervous. I think it is becoming an "in" thing.


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## lols82 (Nov 13, 2012)

I do believe there is a certain stigma attached to these type of dogs which is unfair, and it's all over the news here at the moment. As mentioned above I do think that any dog could turn, however these dogs are really powerful and if they did turn then it would be alot harder to control them than perhaps a different breed of dog. I would never even leave 'any' dog with young children especially, never. I personally am afraid of thedr dogs tbh, I got attacked by a pitbull type when I was young, playing on a swing and it just decided to go for me. I do avoid them when out walking as I don't trust them, but I avoid any larger dog when out as I don't know them and don't know if I can trust them with my little pooch. I don't know what the answer is. With this particular case it's tragic and some poor young girl is lying dead as well as the dogs, such a shame.


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## CorkieYorkie (Apr 10, 2012)

It is so incredibly sad how stigmatized pits are, and there is a huge overpopulation of them pretty much all over the country it seems... some shelters will not even adopt out pit bulls and euthanize them immediately  And it's our fault, not theirs. I agree, a lot of it is from breeding and poor ownership. And while the best and most responsible owner can train a pit bull, sometimes the dog just snaps. I am not the most comfortable around large dogs, unless I know them and trust them. I have not had much, if any, contact with any pits, but they scare me just as much as other large breed dogs that I don't know. 

But it's not just pits!! All of these large breed dogs have killed people or pets, or seriously injured them due to irresponsible ownership or the dog just "snapping". That's what is so terrifying.. sure, small dogs can be aggressive too, but they can't bring down an adult and kill them!


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## CorkieYorkie (Apr 10, 2012)

I also wanted to add that this girl was attacked by a pack of dogs in a small enclosed place by herself... seems like the perfect storm for disaster to me. Pack mentality can take over a normally well-mannered dog, or so I have read.

I also feel that because pits have the *potential* to be so dangerous, there should be limitations on who should be allowed to own them... the person should be required to train them properly... but then again, if there were actual laws in place about dog ownership, we probably wouldn't have such a pet overpopulation issue... :-/


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## StevieB (Feb 2, 2012)

I used to own a pit bull so I have a good understanding of their personality so I can contribute. I will say this, they are incredibly sweet and loyal, but they are bred with certain traits that makes them unreliable in situations where they are challenged. ANY Pitbull rescue or advocacy group worth their salt will emphasize over and over that a pit bull is not a dog that should EVER be taken to a dog park. That is not a good environment for them. An interesting quote I read is that a pitbull will never start a fight, but they will end it. The pitbull has an interesting history in that they used to be known as the "babysitter" dog. Many wealthy families had them because the dog would protect their children. There are photographs of the Rockefeller children hanging out with pitbulls. If raised right, they would NEVER hurt their human. They would die for their human. I adopted my pibble when she was 9 weeks old, she was abandoned on a farm somewhere and I ended up with her (I didn't even know what a pit bull was back then). She was an awesome dog, but, even though I'd had her since puppyhood and she'd never been abused, was well socialized and lived with other dogs, I would never trust her around little yappers. You just don't know what will make them snap, and there is something in them that will snap. So they require a very responsible and aware owner, and unfortunately, and let's be real, it's not the kind of dog that "responsible" dog lovers seek out. But there ARE so many great people who DO seek them out via rescue who understand them and do an incredible job with them. But there are just way too many of them. I don't think BSL is the answer because that's not fair to the people who rescue and know what they're doing, but there should be some provisions to owning a dog like that, maybe permits or wicked high fines for getting caught owning one that's not fixed. Because if a maltese has a crappy owner, it's just annoying, but if a pitbull has a crappy owner, it can be deadly.


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## Bailey&Me (Mar 8, 2010)

StevieB said:


> I used to own a pit bull so I have a good understanding of their personality so I can contribute. I will say this, they are incredibly sweet and loyal, but they are bred with certain traits that makes them unreliable in situations where they are challenged. ANY Pitbull rescue or advocacy group worth their salt will emphasize over and over that a pit bull is not a dog that should EVER be taken to a dog park. That is not a good environment for them. An interesting quote I read is that a pitbull will never start a fight, but they will end it. The pitbull has an interesting history in that they used to be known as the "babysitter" dog. Many wealthy families had them because the dog would protect their children. There are photographs of the Rockefeller children hanging out with pitbulls. If raised right, they would NEVER hurt their human. They would die for their human. I adopted my pibble when she was 9 weeks old, she was abandoned on a farm somewhere and I ended up with her (I didn't even know what a pit bull was back then). She was an awesome dog, but, even though I'd had her since puppyhood and she'd never been abused, was well socialized and lived with other dogs, I would never trust her around little yappers. You just don't know what will make them snap, and there is something in them that will snap. So they require a very responsible and aware owner, and unfortunately, and let's be real, it's not the kind of dog that "responsible" dog lovers seek out. But there ARE so many great people who DO seek them out via rescue who understand them and do an incredible job with them. But there are just way too many of them. I don't think BSL is the answer because that's not fair to the people who rescue and know what they're doing, but there should be some provisions to owning a dog like that, maybe permits or wicked high fines for getting caught owning one that's not fixed. Because if a maltese has a crappy owner, it's just annoying, but if a pitbull has a crappy owner, it can be deadly.


:goodpost: This is exactly how I feel about Pitbulls as well - and any other "bully' breed or really any other breed that has a rep for being an aggressive breed. I have never owned one but have been around some VERY sweet Pitbulls in my volunteer work with rescues/shelters in the past. My cousins own a German Shepherd who can be aggressive with strangers and IS VERY aggressive with other animals - he is a VERY sweet dog with his family and people he knows, but you can never trust him completely so his family is very, very, very careful with him all the time. 

It is a 100% the owner's responsibiity to be in control of their dog and I completely agree with others who have said that there should be a thorough screening process or a license required for anyone purchasing one of these breeds. 

I am a dog fanatic and never place the blame on a dog/breed for its bad reputation - with that said, I do not ever plan on having a dog of any breed that's known to have some aggressive tendencies. It's too big of a responsibility and risk for me to handle, personally.


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## CorkieYorkie (Apr 10, 2012)

StevieB said:


> I used to own a pit bull so I have a good understanding of their personality so I can contribute. I will say this, they are incredibly sweet and loyal, but they are bred with certain traits that makes them unreliable in situations where they are challenged. ANY Pitbull rescue or advocacy group worth their salt will emphasize over and over that a pit bull is not a dog that should EVER be taken to a dog park. That is not a good environment for them. An interesting quote I read is that a pitbull will never start a fight, but they will end it. The pitbull has an interesting history in that they used to be known as the "babysitter" dog. Many wealthy families had them because the dog would protect their children. There are photographs of the Rockefeller children hanging out with pitbulls. If raised right, they would NEVER hurt their human. They would die for their human. I adopted my pibble when she was 9 weeks old, she was abandoned on a farm somewhere and I ended up with her (I didn't even know what a pit bull was back then). She was an awesome dog, but, even though I'd had her since puppyhood and she'd never been abused, was well socialized and lived with other dogs, I would never trust her around little yappers. You just don't know what will make them snap, and there is something in them that will snap. So they require a very responsible and aware owner, and unfortunately, and let's be real, it's not the kind of dog that "responsible" dog lovers seek out. But there ARE so many great people who DO seek them out via rescue who understand them and do an incredible job with them. But there are just way too many of them. I don't think BSL is the answer because that's not fair to the people who rescue and know what they're doing, but there should be some provisions to owning a dog like that, maybe permits or wicked high fines for getting caught owning one that's not fixed. Because if a maltese has a crappy owner, it's just annoying, but if a pitbull has a crappy owner, it can be deadly.


Agreed, :goodpost:


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

StevieB said:


> I used to own a pit bull so I have a good understanding of their personality so I can contribute. I will say this, they are incredibly sweet and loyal, but they are bred with certain traits that makes them unreliable in situations where they are challenged. ANY Pitbull rescue or advocacy group worth their salt will emphasize over and over that a pit bull is not a dog that should EVER be taken to a dog park. That is not a good environment for them. An interesting quote I read is that a pitbull will never start a fight, but they will end it. The pitbull has an interesting history in that they used to be known as the "babysitter" dog. Many wealthy families had them because the dog would protect their children. There are photographs of the Rockefeller children hanging out with pitbulls. If raised right, they would NEVER hurt their human. They would die for their human. I adopted my pibble when she was 9 weeks old, she was abandoned on a farm somewhere and I ended up with her (I didn't even know what a pit bull was back then). She was an awesome dog, but, even though I'd had her since puppyhood and she'd never been abused, was well socialized and lived with other dogs, I would never trust her around little yappers. You just don't know what will make them snap, and there is something in them that will snap. So they require a very responsible and aware owner, and unfortunately, and let's be real, it's not the kind of dog that "responsible" dog lovers seek out. But there ARE so many great people who DO seek them out via rescue who understand them and do an incredible job with them. But there are just way too many of them. I don't think BSL is the answer because that's not fair to the people who rescue and know what they're doing, but there should be some provisions to owning a dog like that, maybe permits or wicked high fines for getting caught owning one that's not fixed. Because if a maltese has a crappy owner, it's just annoying, but if a pitbull has a crappy owner, it can be deadly.





Bailey&Me said:


> :goodpost: This is exactly how I feel about Pitbulls as well - and any other "bully' breed or really any other breed that has a rep for being an aggressive breed. I have never owned one but have been around some VERY sweet Pitbulls in my volunteer work with rescues/shelters in the past. My cousins own a German Shepherd who can be aggressive with strangers and IS VERY aggressive with other animals - he is a VERY sweet dog with his family and people he knows, but you can never trust him completely so his family is very, very, very careful with him all the time.
> 
> It is a 100% the owner's responsibiity to be in control of their dog and I completely agree with others who have said that there should be a thorough screening process or a license required for anyone purchasing one of these breeds.
> 
> I am a dog fanatic and never place the blame on a dog/breed for its bad reputation - with that said, I do not ever plan on having a dog of any breed that's known to have some aggressive tendencies. It's too big of a responsibility and risk for me to handle, personally.



I feel like there is a personal freedom issue involved in choosing the type of dog that you or your family wish to own. And I do not believe in blaming the breed or in "genocide" of certain breeds. 

But in some ways that genocide is already going on in shelters across the country. Too many of these dogs have become popularized. Too many people want dogs that are not suited to their lifestyle and too many people do not take enough responsibility for the dogs they do own (this is true for all breeds). Irresponsible Maltese owners turn up pretty often, too. I saw a lot of it when I volunteered with rescue. But irresponsible owners of certain breeds such as the bully breeds can have much greater consequences for society as a whole. I am not sure what the answer is, but I don't think it is to create a rule against those breeds. I guess I feel the most important thing is to promote responsible dog ownership and careful decision making on the part of individuals and families when they do adopt a pet.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

Ive spent a lot of decades on this earth...every decade there is a dog that has a reputation of creating trouble, killing, maiming, and so forth. At one time it was dobermans, then German shepard dogs, then Rottweilers, Akitas and so on. The problem is two fold: aggressive humans want nasty dogs, and popular aggressive dogs are overbred by fools. This issue is not going to end. It is sad situation, but as long as there are nasty aggressive human beings, there will be nasty aggressive dogs to service there needs.

It would be a better world if people didn't choose to take out there social aggressions through their dogs, but that is not life on earth. Here we will always have to deal with ********. Sad, but that is the reality. We just need to keep ourselves and our babies safe. For me that means we don't go out to dog parks. We don't walk on the street. I am just too afraid, so we stay home.


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## Cyndilou (Jan 24, 2013)

My brother has a Doberman that is the sweetest thing ever. I haven't brought my baby around her yet just because I don't want to push it and something happen.


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## StevieB (Feb 2, 2012)

*A Happy Pibble Story*

Hopefully you guys can see this link on Facebook, it will make you smile. From my favorite local rescue. They rock and are very thorough in their adopter screenings so this should continue to be a happy ending ...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...63945660.33327.111625568918363&type=1&theater


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

I know there are many very sweet pit bulls...and I know a few of them personally. Actually I now let Archie socialize with one on our street...she is very very sweet and they aren't overly interested in each other, and they get along fine. 

But I must say though.... personally, I"m scared of the breed in general. I don't see many of them around, but can 't figure out why our shelter is always FULL of them!! I'd never want to own a dog who is stronger than me....just a personal choice because I'm a little lax in the training department...:innocent::blush:

I love large dogs...just not the mean looking ones. Now a mastiff....:wub:....I'd love to hug a mastiff!!! The Great Dane is magnificant! The Standard Poodle is exquisite! It's those menacing ones who drool and go into the red zone when we walk by who scare me to death!!


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

I know they're scary, but what some sick person did to this female pit is unthinkable. 
Pregnant Pit Bull Set Aflame Gets Treatment in Monee | NBC Chicago


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

I believe that it's down to bad breeding and bad owners. I don't think a whole breed should be punished. 

I know 2 staffordshire bull terriers and a rottweiler that I have let Milo play with. I am very protective of him but I know these dogs and I know they wouldn't hurt him. The only thing is I am very aware that the rottie is a lot bigger than him so he's only played when they're both on leashes.


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## =supermanskivvies= (Aug 7, 2008)

maggieh said:


> I know they're scary, but what some sick person did to this female pit is unthinkable.
> Pregnant Pit Bull Set Aflame Gets Treatment in Monee | NBC Chicago


I just read about that in the news. So cruel. One of my old coworkers adopted her dog from It's a Pittie rescue...Petunia's in good hands now. It looks like her puppies were born tonight: https://www.facebook.com/MamaPetunia

I volunteer with pit bulls all the time and I'm comfortable with them, although I wouldn't let Tiffany play with one (Tiff seems to think she's a big, tough dog). I have met some really sweet pit bulls while volunteering at the animal shelter. I'll never forget Lacey, one of the first pit bulls I volunteered with. She would sit in my lap, put her head on my shoulder, fall asleep, and snore loudly right in my ear! :HistericalSmiley:

They are not the right dogs for everyone and they require extra responsibility, but I don't think it's right to ban them and euthanize dogs who have done nothing wrong.


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## CorkieYorkie (Apr 10, 2012)

How awful... it breaks my heart what evil things humans do to dogs... :angry:


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

I've met many pitt bulls and all have just been so sweet. I think it really depends how they're raised and the temperment of parents...
They do have an intimidating appearance.. an dour home owners insurance will not insure anyone with pitties, rotties or dobies...Sad because I've rarely encountered an aggressive one and I've worked in a shelter for a long time and volunteer. Even strays that have come in haven't been aggressive...
Here's a story on our local news last night, a house fire and firemen were intimidated my a house full of pitties, but found out they were totally sweet...

http://www.thenews-messenger.com/ar...03290030/Firefighters-visit-dogs-they-rescued


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## CorkieYorkie (Apr 10, 2012)

maggieh said:


> I know they're scary, but what some sick person did to this female pit is unthinkable.
> Pregnant Pit Bull Set Aflame Gets Treatment in Monee | NBC Chicago


Very sad news, the mama pit died today  A devastating end for severely burned dog in Illinois - National Dogs | Examiner.com


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## preisa (Mar 7, 2013)

Wasn't that sad news...I could not stop the tears....!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

CorkieYorkie said:


> Very sad news, the mama pit died today  A devastating end for severely burned dog in Illinois - National Dogs | Examiner.com


Courtney, I heard that earlier today. Thank you for posting the update - so terribly sad.


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## =supermanskivvies= (Aug 7, 2008)

CorkieYorkie said:


> Very sad news, the mama pit died today  A devastating end for severely burned dog in Illinois - National Dogs | Examiner.com


Oh no! That's so sad. Although now she is free from all the pain people have put her through.


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