# Newbies needing expertise



## cocomademoiselle (Mar 25, 2010)

Hi everyone. I'm about to adopt a 4 month maltese and in my excitement I've shown pics of him to some of my friends. One of them told me that I was getting ripped off and he didn't look like any maltese she's ever seen. She's a bit of a know-it-all sometimes and I'm hoping she's wrong, but I've been looking at some of your dogs and he does look a little different from what seems to be the standard (bright white, fine coat, smaller nose and face). He seems stockier than most too. I'm adopting him anyway cause he's a cutie in my books but I don't want to be mislead. Here are some pics..let me know your opinions:

















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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

If you are adopting a dog, who cares if its perfect or not! Just enjoy it. 

I surely would not be paying for a pup from an irresponsible breeder regardless of its looks.


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## cocomademoiselle (Mar 25, 2010)

Sorry I meant to say that I will be BUYING him.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

He looks like a sweetie! where are you getting him from? he looks like a coarsely bred maltese, honestly. Not really close to the maltese standard, which doesn't really matter with a pet. But if you are paying a lot for him, I'd proceed with caution. He also looks on the bigger side and not crazy about how his coat looks (esp the legs) If you want a maltese that fits the standard, I'd look for a pup from a reputable show breeder.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

bellaratamaltese said:


> He looks like a sweetie! where are you getting him from? he looks like a coarsely bred maltese, honestly. Not really close to the maltese standard, which doesn't really matter with a pet. But if you are paying a lot for him, *I'd proceed with caution.* He also looks on the bigger side and not crazy about how his coat looks (esp the legs) If you want a maltese that fits the standard, I'd look for a pup from a reputable show breeder.


:goodpost:


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I'm sorry but he could be a mix. He doesn't adhere to the standard very closely. I would look farther and check out some reputable breeders some of us have used to find a pup. I know you wouldn't want to help a backyard breeder or mill prosper from your purchase.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Brutal honesty here: 

If you are rescuing or adopting him from a shelter, I'd say, who cares? He's cute! But if you are paying money for a purebred Maltese, then you are getting ripped off. To me, he looks like he might be a Maltese-Bichon or Maltese-Havanese mix.

If you want to buy a purebred Maltese, the only way to ensure you will get one is to buy from a breeder who shows dogs. They don't have to be the top show breeder, just someone who cares about the integrity of the breed and proves it by showing their dogs. There is a wealth of information on this site regarding how to find one. When you find a breeder you like, ask them this: "Do you show your dogs?" If they say no, then hang up the phone and move on. 

I really wish you the best, and I hope it all works out for you. I love *all* dogs, and I would be quite happy with the little guy pictured in your post. I just wouldn't be happy about getting ripped off.


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

I agree with everyone above and will be honest too since you asked. Cute little dog but either not purebred or possibly purebred but way off standard. I personally would not BUY this dog from a breeder. It's one thing to adopt from a shelter or rescue or rehome situation, but if I was BUYING a dog, I would want a well-bred purebred. He looks large and maybe even older than 4 months, he has a very broad face that doesn't look like a Maltese to me (it's wider and longer than your traditional/moderate maltese face), and his coat does look coarse..almost like a westie's coat to me.


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## roxybaby22 (Feb 25, 2009)

Nikki's Mom said:


> Brutal honesty here:
> 
> If you are rescuing or adopting him from a shelter, I'd say, who cares? He's cute! But if you are paying money for a purebred Maltese, then you are getting ripped off. To me, he looks like he might be a Maltese-Bichon or Maltese-Havanese mix.
> 
> ...


:goodpost: 

Also, please don't support the breeders that don't work hard to better the breed. There are plenty of guys like him in the shelter and would love a home, or you can support a reputable breeder and get a maltese that adheres to the standard more. 

If you need help picking a breeder, don't hesitate to ask.


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

Nikki's Mom said:


> Brutal honesty here:
> 
> If you are rescuing or adopting him from a shelter, I'd say, who cares? He's cute! But if you are paying money for a purebred Maltese, then you are getting ripped off. To me, he looks like he might be a Maltese-Bichon or Maltese-Havanese mix.
> 
> ...


I agree here. I would adopt/rescue him and would pay a fee for that, but I wouldn't 'buy' him as a 'purebred' because he does look like a mix and a big one for 4 months old.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

I just wanted to add that since this is NOT a reputable breeder you are getting him/her from, it may have genetic diseases that you may not know about until he's older. He "looks" healthy now, but who knows if his mom/dad/grandparents weren't and they passed down deadly diseases. And not to metion the cost of getting him healthy if he does get a disease. I wouldn't "buy" that either. There are MANY cute maltese that look even closer to the standard in shelters and rescues right NOW.


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## cocomademoiselle (Mar 25, 2010)

thanks for the replies. I'm in Saskatchewan, Canada and I've been looking for about 9 months. I think desperation has blinded me:blush: I was secretly hoping he's just going through an awkward puppy stage. There are no maltese to be found around here. And this guy is an 11-hr round trip away. I'm not sure what to do. Should I confront her about it. I was going to meet him this weekend to see if we get along. Then bring him home on the 6th. She's asking $700 for him (should that have tipped me off?) and I haven't paid a deposit so should I walk away? I have my heart set on a pure bred to reduce the chances of triggering allergies of some of my family members.

I would appreciate any help in find a reputable breeder in my area. I've been searching on the internet and it seems that a lot aren't listed


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Some breeders in the US will ship, and there is a man that some of our members know who works for the airlines, who will pick up the puppy and fly with the dog to you. It must be very hard for you to find one, I'm sorry. He's really cute, but when he is fully grown, he's not going to look like a Maltese. Is there a Canadian Maltese Association? I don't know much about it but we have some members here from all over Canada. Maybe they can help you. Suggest you make a new post for that so they can be sure to see it.


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## cocomademoiselle (Mar 25, 2010)

ilovemymaltese said:


> I just wanted to add that since this is NOT a reputable breeder you are getting him/her from, it may have genetic diseases that you may not know about until he's older. He "looks" healthy now, but who knows if his mom/dad/grandparents weren't and they passed down deadly diseases. And not to metion the cost of getting him healthy if he does get a disease. I wouldn't "buy" that either. *There are MANY cute maltese that look even closer to the standard in shelters and rescues right NOW*.


I know, I've seen tons of them in the US pet rescues and I wish they were on the other side of the border


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## roxybaby22 (Feb 25, 2009)

cocomademoiselle said:


> thanks for the replies. I'm in Saskatchewan, Canada and I've been looking for about 9 months. I think desperation has blinded me:blush: I was secretly hoping he's just going through an awkward puppy stage. There are no maltese to be found around here. And this guy is an 11-hr round trip away. I'm not sure what to do. Should I confront her about it. I was going to meet him this weekend to see if we get along. Then bring him home on the 6th. She's asking $700 for him (should that have tipped me off?) and I haven't paid a deposit so should I walk away? I have my heart set on a pure bred to reduce the chances of triggering allergies of some of my family members.
> 
> I would appreciate any help in find a reputable breeder in my area. I've been searching on the internet and it seems that a lot aren't listed


Yes, you should walk away, please don't support that kind of breeder. 

Would you mind shipping a Maltese from the US? There are some members from Canada that have done that. Also there's a couple of breeders listed in this thread by another Canadian searching for a puppy. http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/50-introduce-yourself/103950-hello.html


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## cocomademoiselle (Mar 25, 2010)

roxybaby22 said:


> Yes, you should walk away, please don't support that kind of breeder.
> 
> Would you mind shipping a Maltese from the US? There are some members from Canada that have done that. Also there's a couple of breeders listed in this thread by another Canadian searching for a puppy. http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/50-introduce-yourself/103950-hello.html



thanks for the link!


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm sure there are some reputable Maltese show breeders in Canada...I tried to search but didn't see a Canadian Maltese association but I might have missed it. I know there are many wonderful Yorkie breeders in Canada so I would imagine there have to be at least a few good Maltese breeders there. But you could always get one from the US as well


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

I know a Canadian member here got her malt from Tajon Maltese in the US. She has lots of cute puppies available right now: Ta-Jon Maltese Puppies Available


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## malteserus (Mar 9, 2009)

He could be a Maltese, a cute one too! He's not as close to the breed standard though.


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## CeeCee's Mom (Sep 14, 2006)

I hope you understand that we are only trying to help. If you have your mind made up, then nothing we say can make a difference. Just think about it and try to realize that if he is not bred properly, you will more than likely pay a big fee down the road with health problems. All maltese pups are lovable and if he were rescue, he would need a good home. If you are paying anywhere form 500.00 or more, please think about it.....there are a lot of unscrupulous people out there and will take advantage of a good heart. Good luck to you!!!


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## SugarBob62 (Nov 9, 2009)

Ugh I just lost what I typed hahhha hate when that happens!

Yeah the pictures of the dog do look kind of not typical Maltese like. And what I really thought was strange, maybe it's just me. But he doesn't look 4 months old. He looks older? Are those pictures the breeder said from when he was 4 months old? I just found VERY similar posing pictures of Nelson, from when he was 4.5 months old, and Nelson looks even younger and smaller than this dog does...at a younger age supposedly? :huh:


Like when I put them right next to each other, I can see the differences. I mean yeah some do look different. But he just looks different, not just breed wise...but even age maybe?































And I would definitely research the breeder more. $700 is $700. If the dog ends up not being purebred or even bred in the best conditions, I would not pay money to that kind of breeder. I would adopt a dog first in that case. I'm not trying to be mean about the dog or anything. But just bylooking at the pictures next to each other I see a lot of differences. Not saying all Maltese look the same. I dunno what it is though. The whole age thing is throwing me off too. I know Nelson looked like such a BABY when we first got him, and everyday he looking more like a big bog dog and not a puppy anymore. But this dog looks older than 4 months to me. :huh:


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## roxybaby22 (Feb 25, 2009)

It's this image that throws me off. His muzzle looks much broader than a Maltese's, but it could just be the hair. He looks like a nice boy and has a very bright face, but I would not support that breeder.










Good luck on your search! :thumbsup:


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## Cute Chloe (Nov 30, 2009)

He's really cute! If he was in a shelter, I would adopt him in a heartbeat. Looks like he would make a good companion. That smile just melts my heart.

However, misrepresentation as a "purebreed" Maltese for sale for $700 (CDN?) is a
different story. If I had to shell out $700 for this cute puppy, I would feel like I was
taken advantage of.

Follow your heart, but use your brain.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

We have a member here from Canada. I think maybe Manitoba? Her name is Cathy, she may have some suggestions for you.

Also, I know of a few Maltese breeders in Canada, but most of them are in Ontario and Quebec. They might be at least good contacts for you, as they may be able to point you in a good direction. The one I would contact first is Vicky Fierheller. She and her mom have been showing and breeding Maltese for I believe like 30 years. Vicky is very respected in both countries. She judged the sweepstakes at our national specialty last year.


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

You have given some wonderful advice and opinions here  I know you can find a maltese. You came to the right forum. There are few Canadian members who can give you their stories to where they got their malts.

If I were you, I would stay away from the person who is trying to sell that pup (he sure is a cutie, but I would take him in at a heart beat if he was in a shelter).
Good luck!

Kat


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## jodublin (Sep 27, 2006)

just take your puppy home and love him :wub:


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## pinkpixie1588 (Oct 12, 2009)

Just to reiterate what the others so wisely told you, i'd say he's some sort of mix, too. His face looks much more havanese-ish to me. See this picture of a Hav. ? 

http://www.felici-animali.be/PdC_havanezer/wit_bruin_pigment.JPG

I like Havanese, don't get me wrong. But if you're looking for a Maltese and want predictability in looks, temperament, and health, your best bet is to find a show breeder. Honestly, you will pay quite a bit more than you're looking to pay now, but you wont be taken advantage of and you'll know what you're getting and have the peace of mind that he was well bred and will be less likely to develop health issues. 

I don't even think I would bother going to see him if you're thinking of backing out. ALL PUPPIES ARE CUTE and he will probably steal your heart, mix/poorly bred or not. This wouldn't be a bad thing, except it will mean giving your $700 to a BYB who doesn't care about adhering to standard and is pumping puppies out as 'Maltese' with no regard to the integrity of the breed. I wouldn't support such a thing. Since you've already waited so long, I'd wait a little longer and get your perfect Maltese baby.


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## uniquelovdolce (Mar 10, 2010)

i agree with everyone here , he looks like hes mixed w havanese to me.


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

I think he looks sweet and who knows what you could be saving him from ,in the future. No he doesn't fit standard but as long as he fits in your heart,that's all that counts. 
We purchased a dalmatian from a breeder,who was a BYB,didn't know what that was 24 years ago. The only thing that didn't fit standard about her was she had one black ear and a large black spot on her eye,looked like someone gave her a black eye. supposedly all the spots were supposed to be very small,mostly white face,small spots. Though now I see large black spots on faces of show dalamtians.
They had sold all their pups but showed us her and said they would keep her to breed,because of her facial markings ,no one wanted her. We felt so bad by the cold way they said it we offered to buy her. They still wanted full price. We took her any way,glad we did because a year later they got shut down for cruelty. Yes they profited by our purchase,but I think we saved her from a horrible future. She grew up to have beautiful and graceful lines,she had the best personality of any dalmatian we had met and gave us 16.5 years of joy.
It's hard for me to say ,don't buy from a BYB,it promotes suffering,and it does. They know they can pull our heart strings so easily though. I'd still take him.
If you're adopting him,go for it. I bet he will have beautiful fur once you get him home on a good food and once his mature coat comes in. He looks like a real love to me. 

SM loves welcomes all breeds,so welcome to you and your new fluff.


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## Delilahs Mommy (Nov 22, 2009)

All the ladies gave you great advice! If you are wanting a pure breed Maltese and know that you have a pure/well bred pup. Then wait it out and search for a repuatable breeder. If you just looking for a pet and don't care what he looks like. Then I say get him. Like others said, you will be giving him a good home. But to me, he does look like a maltese mix. If not with the current breeder. Perhaps somewhere down the line in his pedigree was somewhere possibly mixed with another breed and those genes were passed on to him. Good luck in what ever you decide and welcome to SM! The ladies and gents here are wonderul and give honest, albeit sometimes brutal advice. But all in all everyone means well and just don't want to see anyone get burned. Hope to see you around and pics of a new fluff from you soon!


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

cocomademoiselle said:


> thanks for the replies. I'm in Saskatchewan, Canada and I've been looking for about 9 months. I think desperation has blinded me:blush: I was secretly hoping he's just going through an awkward puppy stage. There are no maltese to be found around here. And this guy is an 11-hr round trip away. I'm not sure what to do. Should I confront her about it. I was going to meet him this weekend to see if we get along. Then bring him home on the 6th. She's asking $700 for him (should that have tipped me off?) and I haven't paid a deposit so should I walk away? I have my heart set on a pure bred to reduce the chances of triggering allergies of some of my family members.
> 
> I would appreciate any help in find a reputable breeder in my area. I've been searching on the internet and it seems that a lot aren't listed


Wow,I didn't see the $700 for him. I thought he was being adopted. That's a tough call. He's 4 months old and they still want $700? As for allergies,a Malt can still trigger them,depends on the family member's level of sensativity and you have to keep them really clean,fur picks up dust. Malts are less agrevating to allergies due to lack of undercoat but the fur can still pick up allergans.

I'd ask for names and phone numbers of those who've bought from them before and talk to them to see if there were any issues w/ other pups they've sold. 
Deep down,you have to decide which is more important.
If you have your heart set on a small,standards conforming dog,you may end up dissappointed by this one. I know if I saw him,I'd sure have a hard time walking away. I'm just seeing his picture and having a ahrd time thinking of asking someone to walk away..
I'm a sucker for a hair face though.


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## roxybaby22 (Feb 25, 2009)

michellerobison said:


> *Wow,I didn't see the $700 for him. I thought he was being adopted. That's a tough call.* He's 4 months old and they still want $700? As for allergies,a Malt can still trigger them,depends on the family member's level of sensativity and you have to keep them really clean,fur picks up dust. Malts are less agrevating to allergies due to lack of undercoat but the fur can still pick up allergans.
> 
> I'd ask for names and phone numbers of those who've bought from them before and talk to them to see if there were any issues w/ other pups they've sold.
> Deep down,you have to decide which is more important.
> ...


Yes, that's the only reason most of us advised her not to get the puppy. I could not and will support a BYB again, especially having gone through the heartbreak.

Edit: I wanted to edit to clarify the reason... not because the puppy is four months old, but that the dog is coming from a BYB and being paid for, which supports the BYB.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

michellerobison said:


> Wow,I didn't see the $700 for him. I thought he was being adopted. That's a tough call. He's 4 months old and they still want $700?


Just curious do you think that 4 months is old? Like as in the price should be reduced because he is a few weeks older than the 12 that is traditional for a pup to come to a new home? 

If so, I would have to disagree. At 4 months, it is not like he has exceeded his puppy shelf-life. I know of a wonderful breeder who keeps all her puppies until they are 16 weeks because she is very vigilant about shots and bile acid tests. I think that shows her dedication. 

Now, on the subject of this particular breeder and her $700 pure-bred(?) dog. I would certainly continue to research until I find a breeder who is producing Maltese (or Havanese or whatever breed) closer to the standard and following the ethical guidelines of breeding healthy purebred dogs. As I mentioned in a previous post, I highly encourage you to talk to Vicky Fierheller or some of the other experienced show breeders in Canada.


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## fach (Jun 27, 2005)

SugarBob62 said:


> Ugh I just lost what I typed hahhha hate when that happens!
> 
> Yeah the pictures of the dog do look kind of not typical Maltese like. And what I really thought was strange, maybe it's just me. But he doesn't look 4 months old. He looks older? Are those pictures the breeder said from when he was 4 months old? I just found VERY similar posing pictures of Nelson, from when he was 4.5 months old, and Nelson looks even younger and smaller than this dog does...at a younger age supposedly? :huh:
> 
> ...


When I saw the photos I though exactly the same thing. This dog [as cute as he is] looks older than 16 weeks.


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## uniquelovdolce (Mar 10, 2010)

i agree i got dolce at 16 wks n he was teenier n his face just looked more baby like.


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

pinkpixie1588 said:


> Just to reiterate what the others so wisely told you, i'd say he's some sort of mix, too. His face looks much more havanese-ish to me. See this picture of a Hav. ?
> 
> http://www.felici-animali.be/PdC_havanezer/wit_bruin_pigment.JPG
> 
> ...


I've said before that I have trouble recognizing Havaneses but there was a Havanese puppy where I work today. At first I thought he was a maltese...he was white with lemon on his ears and had a maltese type coat. But he had a bigger, broader head. Then i found out he was a Havanese puppy and not a maltese. so maybe this dog is a Havanese too.


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Cute dog. There's a havanese in my handling class, your pup looks like him. I agree with others that this dog does not look like a 16 week old puppy...do you know how much he weighs?

What ever you decide to do, may you end up with a healthy happy pup. 

If you're really wanting a well bred maltese, I'd wait and keep looking. 

Good luck. :thumbsup:


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Hi, I am from Canada also. I ended up looking in the U.S. Vicki, from 4 halls is well respected but really doesn't breed much and keeps for show. Very worth contacting though, a lovely lady. She also recommended Mercer's maltese to me, they are friends. Other than that nothing to recommend that I am aware of. Loads of BYB's though.

The Tajon babies recommended already are an amazing buy. Shipping isn't too hard depending on whether you have a direct flight or not, and well worth it.
Ta-Jon Maltese Puppies Available Tajon is winning in the ring a lot lately too.

Good luck with your quest


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## cocomademoiselle (Mar 25, 2010)

michellerobison said:


> Wow,I didn't see the $700 for him. I thought he was being adopted. That's a tough call. He's 4 months old and they still want $700? As for allergies,a Malt can still trigger them,depends on the family member's level of sensativity and you have to keep them really clean,fur picks up dust. Malts are less agrevating to allergies due to lack of undercoat but the fur can still pick up allergans.
> 
> *I'd ask for names and phone numbers of those who've bought from them before and talk to them to see if there were any issues w/ other pups they've sold. *
> Deep down,you have to decide which is more important.
> ...


Thanks for the replies everyone and I'm looking into some of the contacts that have been provided. I've been speaking to the lady and things aren't adding up. She says he weighs 4.5lbs but I don't see that being a 4.5lb puppy. She says he is the first breeding out of the parents so doesn't have any references to give me. I asked for a picture of his mother and the one she gave doesn't not look like maltese at all. Looks like a havanese actually. Thick curly hair.


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## pinkpixie1588 (Oct 12, 2009)

You must be glad you're doing your homework. Sounds like this lady probably tries to pull the wool over the eyes of people who don't know any better/don't know what a maltese should really look like.


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## ariamaltese (May 10, 2005)

It's good you are pausing to research further and consider other opinions. All dogs are lovable; however, if you are seeking a specific look and you want a Maltese that conforms closely to the AKC Maltese Breed Standard - American Kennel Club - akc.org - this dog is not one that strongly conforms to our standard. 

You are prepared to invest $700 in this dog and many well bred male Maltese can be found for $1,200 - $1,500 (not that much more than what you are considering investing in terms of capital). Perhaps you could save a bit more and acquire a Maltese more closing conforming to the standard. In the end it is your decision and you must consider the dog is to be loved and a member of your family for years to come.

Good luck.

Heidi
:: aria maltese ::


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