# RAW is best



## AmyLuv (Jul 4, 2006)

The *absolute best food * to feed your dog is *RAW*. Get your hands on a copy of *Dr. Billinghurst's * *"The BARF Diet"* and you will never look back. You can order it from DogWise.com. My baby's breath smells sweet, her teeth and gums glisten, her stools are small & few. She's healthy & happy. I was very skeptical about giving my dog "raw bones" at first, but after much research, trial & error, I truly believe the raw diet is what is biologically the best food you can give your baby.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Many authorities would beg to differ. With all the disease, etc in the news,
I don't think raw meat is the way to go..especially for these little ones.
I've seen someone post this book on every site lately. They must get a 
commission. LOL


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## dogloverx3 (Apr 14, 2006)

In Australia dogs eat a completely different diet to U.S dogs . My dogs do not only eat dry food - most people in Australia use dry food as maybe 10% of the dogs diet . Australian dogs eat a combination of both raw and cooked food - meat and vegetables . I think dogs only eating commercial dry and canned food - could not possibly be good for them , I prefer a more holistic approach . Sarah


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

> Many authorities would beg to differ. With all the disease, etc in the news,
> I don't think raw meat is the way to go..especially for these little ones.
> I've seen someone post this book on every site lately. They must get a
> commission. LOL[/B]


I agree with Brit............this RAW diet rears it's head ever so often, but I still do NOT agree with it.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> In Australia dogs eat a completely different diet to U.S dogs . My dogs do not only eat dry food - most people in Australia use dry food as maybe 10% of the dogs diet . Australian dogs eat a combination of both raw and cooked food - meat and vegetables . I think dogs only eating commercial dry and canned food - could not possibly be good for them , I prefer a more holistic approach . Sarah[/B]


It's so hard to know what is best .... I'm just curious why commercial food "could not possibly be good for them". I have no hidden agenda... just curious!


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

I make my malts food. I started to because it was suggested to me by a vet, because of my malts allergies. After researching it I think its healthier.
He is allergic to both chicken and beef, so he usually gets turkey or lamb. Sometimes a different protein. I cook all his meat. He also eats oatmeal or brown rice and he loves vegetables. I have read a lot about the raw meat diet. I think it would be too hard on my malteses system. My malt gets plenty of raw veggies. (so he gets his raw enzymes that way.)


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## dogloverx3 (Apr 14, 2006)

No parents would ever consider feeding their children only processed food out of cans, boxes and bags--we all know that it is important to provide ourselves and our children with fresh, raw fruits and vegetables. Similarly, it is better for our animal companions to eat fresh, raw foods appropriate to their species, than to be fed exclusively processed and heavily preserved foods for their entire lives. The popularity of commercial pet foods is due far more to their convenience than to any improvement in nutrition over home-made foods . Naturally if you consider a holistic approach , you need to do your research and consult your vet . The benefits of fresh food will always outweigh the ease of fast commercial food . My last 2 dogs were fed a holistic diet from day 1 - they died without one vet visit in 16 years , or one day of ill health . I will never believe that dogs suffering food allergies , is not linked to commercial preparations . Sarah P.S I got alot of this information from the holistic consultant at my boyfriends vet practice , it made for interesting reading .


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## Holliberry (Feb 5, 2005)

I'm with the raw foodists on this one. But, even myself I havent made the switch, mainly due to convenience. I've done alot of reading and have a great holistic vet to guide me. Hopefully one day we will do it. I would elaborate, but its late


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

everyone has their own preferences. 

there is a lot that goes into making dog food nutritionally specific to dogs. 

personally, i think raw food is dangerous. and i don't feel i should supplement my dogs' food. once in a while i will give them carrots or green beans...but i don't give it to them on a regular basis nor do i feel the need to cook for them.. 
JMHO


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I'm not against fresh fruits and veggies, but when it comes to raw meats
I cannot imagine risking my dog's health so they can taste that bloody
animal. There is too much at stake there. Oh, and I don't eat red meat either.
Not that I'm a fanatic, but millions of dollars have been spent to find the
right combination of ingredients to help our pets be healthier and happier
over all. There are many great dog foods out there that are as close to
holistic as one can get without the rawness. As for allergies..you will find
animals allergic to raw, even some veggies and fruits as well as processed.
It isn't necessarily the food so much as it is the breeding. Also, please 

remember these tiny dogs' digestive systems are much more delicate and

smaller in size than most other dogs outside the toy group. Some veggies

and meats (raw) can be very difficult to digest and can even cause distress.


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## dogloverx3 (Apr 14, 2006)

I'll bet you can tell I don't eat processed food either , that's why my dogs never will . I think you will find the bottom line of most big dog food companies - is called profit margin , are they really interested in the well being of your pet , or more interested in making money ??? All commercial food has preservatives - that alone makes them not as healthy as they could be . Most of them have plenty of additives and coloring as well . I actually contacted a holistic vet , before choosing a holistic diet - this includes both raw AND cooked food . In Australia the raw food movement has been going for years - most breeders do not understand the U.S approach at all - most think it is a convenience issue rather than a health one . Fresh cooked or raw food is always going to be superior to commercial food . My small dogs have eaten the holistic way for 19 years - with no side effects . I guess it's all in the individual approach - but my body is my temple , and that's the way I treat my dogs !!!! Sarah


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## hillary&lola (Apr 4, 2006)

i looked into feeding the raw diet but chickend out. i know the raw food is probally prepared in a way as to not carry bacteria BUT there is still a chance. not to mention the idea of feeding lola blood and raw meat grosses me out! i think the ulra premium foods are so high quality there really is no reason. having said this, i am not particual with eating perfect non processed foods myself, its just not for me. lifes too short not to eat what you want







just my too cents for what works for me.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> I'll bet you can tell I don't eat processed food either , that's why my dogs never will . I think you will find the bottom line of most big dog food companies - is called profit margin , are they really interested in the well being of your pet , or more interested in making money ??? All commercial food has preservatives - that alone makes them not as healthy as they could be . Most of them have plenty of additives and coloring as well . I actually contacted a holistic vet , before choosing a holistic diet - this includes both raw AND cooked food . In Australia the raw food movement has been going for years - most breeders do not understand the U.S approach at all - most think it is a convenience issue rather than a health one . Fresh cooked or raw food is always going to be superior to commercial food . My small dogs have eaten the holistic way for 19 years - with no side effects . I guess it's all in the individual approach - but my body is my temple , and that's the way I treat my dogs !!!! Sarah[/B]


I've been a vegetarian (I eat fish and milk products, though) for 30+ years and care very much about nutrition for myself and K & C. I have not researched holistic or raw diets for dogs at all so I can't contribute to that discussion. 

However, I do know that there are a lot of commercial dog foods that have no artificial coloring or preservatives. Years ago most of them did, but I think a lot of companies have seen the light and have really upgraded their products. And then new companies have come on board with wholesome dog food. 

I like Newman's Own because they use free range chicken and organic grains and vegatables. And their profits go to animal charities. The fat in their food, for example, is preserved with mixed tocopherols, citric acid and rosemary. 

The processed foods that are available for humans are very different from processed dog food. The human processed food that I am familiar with is often very high fat and full of sugar, salt, fillers, trans fat, etc. Yes, dog food is processed, but the ingredients, at least in premium foods, contain fruits, vegetables, pro-biotics, and whole grains. I don't know of a human processed food that is comparable to that. 

http://www.newmansownorganics.com/pet/home/index.php


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## AmyLuv (Jul 4, 2006)

> I'm not against fresh fruits and veggies, but when it comes to raw meats
> I cannot imagine risking my dog's health so they can taste that bloody
> animal. There is too much at stake there. Oh, and I don't eat red meat either.
> Not that I'm a fanatic, but millions of dollars have been spent to find the
> ...


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## AmyLuv (Jul 4, 2006)

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Cute & little, no matter what breed, our lovely little canines evolved from *WOLVES*. They have evolved very well over many thousands of years, long before the last 50-70 yrs when commercial dog food was introduced. The commercial dog food industry is a business, the goal is *the bottom line $$$*. Of course they (and most vets who get financing from the industry) don’t want you to stop buying their food and feeding your dogs what nature intended, that is - raw food. You don’t see wolves cooking their food, do you? Our dogs may look very different from the original wolf from which they evolved from, but their digestive systems are the SAME!

The best meaty bones to feed are from young animals, ideally chicken. Wings, backs & necks that you can get from your friendly butcher (ideally hormone free), and you would handle the meat as sanitarily as you would for yourself. As for fears of bacteria, dogs have special enzymes in their digestive systems to kill whatever might be normally harmful to humans. Do not equate their digestive systems to humans. 

Wrap individual daily portions and freeze. Defrost in the fridge the night before feeding. This is not as inconvenient as you might think. As for vegetables, I chop spinach, bok choy, carrots, sweet potatoes, apples and blueberries in a blender then scoop it into ice trays and freeze. Once frozen, I place them in a freezer bag. Just defrost in fridge the night before feeding. At feeding in the morning, I use 2 cubes of veggies and add ¼ teaspoon of cold fish oil (EFA 6 and 3), crumble some freeze-dried chicken liver (if you don’t have fresh/frozen) over it and give it to her – she just gobbles it up. For supper, I give her 2 chicken wings and a neck, if I have it. Her jaws and teeth *crush* the bones and she digests them very well. Chewing on those bones cleans her teeth and massages her gums. I never have to brush her teeth or get her teeth cleaned at the vet. She has a clean, healthy mouth and that is the KEY to good health & longevity in dogs.

Trust me, I was very sceptical too – I was brainwashed into believing that you don’t feed bones to your dog, unless it’s one of those big recreational type bones (which is good for them too, by the way). God forbid a bone should lodge itself into their oesophagus or intestines! Rarely does that happen, but it’s usually if the dog “gulps” the bone and doesn’t CHEW them. That’s why you should not feed raw meaty bones to a dog that’s famished. Satiate their appetite a bit with some veggies and offal (liver, heart) first. Raw bones from chicken are “soft”; dogs are *biologically designed * to have the *teeth & jaws *to chew them into digestible mulch. It’s the cooked bones that are brittle and dangerous.

Do some research people! Read *“Raw Meaty Bones” by Dr. Tom Lonsdale*. And I don’t get a commission for suggesting any reading material that would help to open your *“commercial dog food industry brainwashed minds”* about an eating philosophy that has been proven, throughout history and in Australia, to be ideal for the long term health & well-being of our little loved ones. I’ve just had my eyes and mind opened and I wanted to share that with other dog lovers out there.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

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"Evolve" is the operative word here. They may have evolved from wolves, but they aren't wolves any more.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

This is always a hotly debated issue. 

I feed my Lady Innove's Evo which is supposed to be closer to a dog's natural diet since it contains no grains. I feed it to her primarily because she is diabetic and her glucose levels are excellent on it. A raw diet is not recommended for diabetics as they cannot handle bacteria because of their compromised immune systems and are prone to infection.

Just to present the other side of the story, here are a few links to opponents of a raw food diet.

http://www.workingdogs.com/vcbarf.htm

http://www.secondchanceranch.org/training/...meat/index.html

http://www.secondchanceranch.org/training/...meat/myths.html


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

My Two Cents Worth:








I am not exactly 'on the fence' here. However, I do like some things that ALL of you have said.









I won't do BARF, there are too many bad diseases out there in raw meat and eggs. Sure dogs systems can handle normal bacteria better than ours, but the diseases like mad cow, as example, is a different thing.

I'm pretty much a 'moderate' in all things, and that goes here. Good nutrition has to have variety. So I like to feed a variety---including some home cooked "dog recipes". As K/C's Mom said there are a lot of good quality, no preservatives, no color added, etc. commercial (natural, holistic) dog foods now, both canned, freeze dried cooked, and dry. True, there are a lot of manufacturers who jumped on the band wagon for profit, but that isn't a bad thing if the quality is there.

Yes, dogs are descended from wolves, but our knowledge of nutrition has *progressed*! We have *fire* now too! (kidding, but hope you can see my point







). Our little fur babies are very delicate, tiny things--not wolf-like at all. They don't live in caves either. Like was said, even some (obviously not all) raw veggie/fruits can cause upset of their delicate little tummies.

Common sense is important in all things, like temperance in all things.







Just because something is written in a book, doesn't make that person totally infallible. There are always going to be new *theories* on everything we do, and just because a vet or doctor subscribes to it doesn't make it right. The one in the next office over, probably thinks the opposite.









My 2 cents......over and out.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

> My Two Cents Worth:
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I couldn't have said it better - way to go.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

I think this is a very passionate and personal subject matter. I think we all have to research and decide for ourselves what is best for our own pooch. I think we all want and try our best to do what we feel in our hearts is the way to go. 
A discussion on various feeding methods is informative and helpful. In the end we each have to do what we are comfortable with. 
I know many who feed raw and do well with it.. I personally don't feel comfortable with our food inspection and sources of meats/poultry.. much too much contamination fells thru the system... so that for starters has me have reservations against it. I simply don't trust our food supply enough to not want to have it well cooked. 
I do have to comment on the "decended from wolves" as a "argument" for feeding raw though. I'm not saying that raw isn't a positive choice for some and they do well by it...I just don't equate it with being a reason for feeding raw. After all over years domesticaton has changed so many many areas of a dogs system... so seems the digestive system would be affected also. To equate with wolves seems odd to me that's all.. we certainly don't feel our little ones can survive the elements on their own as wolves do. ( not meaning predators due to size).. but the coats have changed for instance.. and they'd not be able to withstand the elements as wolves do. I think generations and generations and generations of domesticity has changed many things and modified their 'wildness".
I'm not saying this as 'against" raw per se....and as I've said there have been many how have fed raw exclusively and done well.. I just would like to see a better points of reasons than the maltese/wolf connection simply doesn't line up in my mind.
I don't think that those who feed raw are 'wrong' ... it just isn't a personal choice of mine.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

If you think these tiny dogs can't hurt themselves on chicken
wings think again. I've seen dogs who "accidentally" got some
out of the trash and cut their mouths on them..even before
swallowing them. Sorry, I'm not buying it.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

> No parents would ever consider feeding their children only processed food out of cans, boxes and bags--we all know that it is important to provide ourselves and our children with fresh, raw fruits and vegetables. Similarly, it is better for our animal companions to eat fresh, raw foods appropriate to their species, than to be fed exclusively processed and heavily preserved foods for their entire lives. The popularity of commercial pet foods is due far more to their convenience than to any improvement in nutrition over home-made foods . Naturally if you consider a holistic approach , you need to do your research and consult your vet . The benefits of fresh food will always outweigh the ease of fast commercial food . My last 2 dogs were fed a holistic diet from day 1 - they died without one vet visit in 16 years , or one day of ill health . I will never believe that dogs suffering food allergies , is not linked to commercial preparations . Sarah P.S I got alot of this information from the holistic consultant at my boyfriends vet practice , it made for interesting reading .
> 
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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

Fascinating thread but this is one very new Malt owner who is now totally confused.









At least I've still got a supply of the "stuff" his breeder fed him and a diet sheet with some suggestions to vary his food. But that "stuff" isn't going to last very long, so, when some of you say "I did some research" or "I did my homework" could you expand on that a bit? 

I'd be very grateful.


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## KimKarr (Feb 4, 2006)

> "We have *fire* now too! (kidding, but hope you can see my point
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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I am too lazy to research a question that I have. Maybe one of our vet folks will answer. Do we think that dogs live longer and healthier lives today than they did, say 50 years ago?? 

I am going to presume that they do. Obviosly modern vet medicine has gotten better through the years. I'm guessing that dog foods have also gotten better as time has gone on. Once upon a time people gave their dogs table scraps. I have not tried raw, and probably won't. I certainly wouldn't presume to tell anyone that they shouldn't feed their animal a raw diet. For my pups, I am satisfied with the research thas has gone into high end dog foods and I believe that a variety of foods which include these processed dog foods, give my girls a well balanced diet.


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## MellieMel (Mar 11, 2006)

> > "We have *fire* now too! (kidding, but hope you can see my point
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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

> Fascinating thread but this is one very new Malt owner who is now totally confused.
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Hi Lorraine,
I started making my dogs food for him when he was about five months old. It was recommended to me by a vet (not a holistic vet) because my dog has allergies. I thought before that, that dogs were supposed to eat dog food. That vet really opened my eyes. I since have spoke with a couple of holistic vets. I also the last couple of years have bought many books on canine health and nutrition. I don't believe everything I read. Things have to make good sense to me to accept them. I am a firm believer in good health comes with good nutrition. 

I have also learned that in recent years some dogs are coming down with cancer at earlier ages and also different autoimmune diseases that were not common years ago.


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## Boobookit (Dec 3, 2005)

> I think this is a very passionate and personal subject matter. I think we all have to research and decide for ourselves what is best for our own pooch. I think we all want and try our best to do what we feel in our hearts is the way to go.
> A discussion on various feeding methods is informative and helpful. In the end we each have to do what we are comfortable with.
> I know many who feed raw and do well with it.. I personally don't feel comfortable with our food inspection and sources of meats/poultry.. much too much contamination fells thru the system... so that for starters has me have reservations against it. I simply don't trust our food supply enough to not want to have it well cooked.
> I do have to comment on the "decended from wolves" as a "argument" for feeding raw though. I'm not saying that raw isn't a positive choice for some and they do well by it...I just don't equate it with being a reason for feeding raw. After all over years domesticaton has changed so many many areas of a dogs system... so seems the digestive system would be affected also. To equate with wolves seems odd to me that's all.. we certainly don't feel our little ones can survive the elements on their own as wolves do. ( not meaning predators due to size).. but the coats have changed for instance.. and they'd not be able to withstand the elements as wolves do. I think generations and generations and generations of domesticity has changed many things and modified their 'wildness".
> ...


Very well said and I agree!! I feed Pacino raw stringbeans and he loves them...our vet said that was good and it is his treat. Can't hurt him. I am just not comfortable with raw meats....

Marie & Pacino


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> Okay ... enough of the silliness ... back to the subject at hand.
> 
> Lorraine -- this isn't about BARF (did I just say that!?), but here's a link to a dog food comparison tool that came in handy for me.
> Dog Food Comparison Tool
> ...


Thanks for the link, Kim.
Would you believe there are 4 comparison products readily available in the UK? Unfortunately Natura is not available here. Still there is a wealth of info. on their site - good stuff.

It's also beginning to dawn on me I need to bring my long-neglected organic vegetable patch back to life









Ummm... it seems you are practicing the lingo for Noelle's trip to the UK, matey... 10/10 for effort and... OK you can come too. You'll need to bring your own superior dog food with you though.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

This topic got me thinking and wondered what the actual lifespan of the wolf is in the wild. I found one source which stated the average was about 8 yrs, ( longer of course in captivity) but I can't verify how reliable that source was so wondered if anyone knew.


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## dogloverx3 (Apr 14, 2006)

As you can see with a vet boyfriend , I like to do plenty of research - here are a few studies that support my theory . Of course with 19 years of following the holistic approach - and not 1 day of ill health in any of my animals . The proof is in the pudding . I have used commercial food before , and was not impressed - I wonder how many others have tried the holistic approach before doubting it's results ? Sarah

Optimum Animal Nutrition and Complementary and Alternative Therapies in Veterinary Medicine 
"A growing number of vets are stating that processed pet food is the main cause of illness and premature death in the modern dog and cat. In December 1995, the British Journal of Small Animal Practice published a paper contending that processed pet food suppresses the immune system and leads to liver, kidney, heart and other diseases. This research, initially conducted by Dr Tom Lonsdale, was researched further by the Australian Veterinary Association and proven to be correct." Canine Health Concern 
Dr. Kollath, of the Karolinska Hospital in Stockholm, headed a study done on animals. When young animals were fed cooked and processed foods they initially appeared to be healthy. However, as the animals reached adulthood, they began to age more quickly than normal and also developed chronic degenerative disease symptoms. A control group of animals raised on raw foods aged less quickly and were free of degenerative disease. In nature, we see another example of wild animals eating entirely enzyme rich raw foods being free of the degenerative diseases that afflict humans.


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> As you can see with a vet boyfriend , I like to do plenty of research - here are a few studies that support my theory...[/B]


Thanks vet's girlfriend.
I'll look up those articles. When my little one gets his 2nd vacc I just know the Vet is going to nod sagely and highly recommend... something in a packet that she has tons of stacked up in the waiting room.

An (indelicate) aside to those who feed their dogs vegetables (cooked or raw) - do they (the dogs of course) break wind a lot? Sorree, but when you gotta know, you gotta know.


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## AmyLuv (Jul 4, 2006)

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Cute & little, no matter what breed, our lovely little canines evolved from *WOLVES*. They have evolved very well over many thousands of years, long before the last 50-70 yrs when commercial dog food was introduced. The commercial dog food industry is a business, the goal is *the bottom line $$$*. Of course they (and most vets who get financing from the industry) don’t want you to stop buying their food and feeding your dogs what nature intended, that is - raw food. You don’t see wolves cooking their food, do you? Our dogs may look very different from the original wolf from which they evolved from, but their digestive systems are the SAME!
[/B][/QUOTE]
"Evolve" is the operative word here. They may have evolved from wolves, but they aren't wolves any more.
[/B][/QUOTE]

But their digestive systems are the same, as well as their mentality, that being pack animals.



> This is always a hotly debated issue.
> 
> I feed my Lady Innove's Evo which is supposed to be closer to a dog's natural diet since it contains no grains. I feed it to her primarily because she is diabetic and her glucose levels are excellent on it. A raw diet is not recommended for diabetics as they cannot handle bacteria because of their compromised immune systems and are prone to infection.
> 
> ...


Sadly, your baby probably became diabetic being fed commercial dog food to begin with.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> Sadly, your baby probably became diabetic being fed commercial dog food to begin with.[/B]


umm...i'm not trying to be rude here.. but exactly who are you, to be making such accusations?


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## AmyLuv (Jul 4, 2006)

> My Two Cents Worth:
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"Delicate little tummies" - you're kidding me, right? Maltis are not as sweet & delicate as they look - they're very robust, vigorous & protective! It's just all that long white hair that makes us think they're just these precious little stuffed toys. Like I said, *no matter what the breed*, ALL dogs came from wolves. That is a biological fact. Their digestive systems and mentalities are the same.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> Like I said, *no matter what the breed*, ALL dogs came from wolves. That is a biological fact. Their digestive systems and mentalities are the same.[/B]



alright...i'll be sure to leave my door open for my dogs to run off, hunt down and kill their prey like wolves, tonight for their dinner.

thanks for the advice!


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## AmyLuv (Jul 4, 2006)

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I'm just saying with all the additives in commercial dog food, particularly anything corn based (which is a high glycemic ingredient (quickly turns to sugar), it just spikes the blood sugar drastically causing a rush of insulin every time, which, after a while, the pancreas gets tired and ergo, you develop diabetes). Chances are prolonged use of certain commercial dog foods can lead to diabetes. Just be sure to check that you don't have any corn or corn like fillers in the food or grains for that matter.

"Raw meaty bone-eating dogs lived much longer than their commercially fed counterparts," Dr. Billinghurst said. "Bone-eating dogs have the wonderful benefits of clean teeth with no periodontal disease, wonderfully improved digestion, a reduction in obesity, fabulous eating exercise, healthy stools, no anal sac problems, and the wonderful psychological, emotional, and immune system benefits that eating raw meaty bones has conferred on dogs for millions of years."



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HaHa! Very very cute doggy, by-the-way


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## cheryld (Jun 22, 2006)

i'm so glad that you posted this, amyluv!







we started feeding our two cats a raw diet over a year ago and i would NEVER go back now. people are shocked at how soft and shiny their fur is, they're so much healthier and happier - AND no struggle with a weight issue, as with many indoor cats. my oldest cat, jimi, used to vomit often and have terrible fur balls: after we started him on raw, that was never a problem. 

we feed pets4life food to our cats and paws-itively raw foods to our malt , which is wonderful and convenient. it's a bit more expensive than a commercial diet, but it balances out because we have no vet bills. and it's just as convenient as any commercial diet because it's pre-made and ready to serve. all you do is thaw it. also, all meat is human grade, inspected and balanced by a team of animal nutritionists. couldn't ask for more. 

i've done extensive research on the diet and even wrote a 2,000+ word article on the subject for a well known magazine. _(if anyone would like to read it, let me know and i'll post it here.)_ 

now our new maltese is eating raw and she has loved it from day one. i'm sure we'll start to see all of the benefits after she has been on it for a couple of weeks.

after reading about a study done by the American Veterinary Association - in which they found instances of diabetes in animals disappeared when put on raw food, and various other *strong * evidence to support the raw BARF diet - i was shocked to find out the reason why many vets don't encourage a raw diet in their clients pets, but DO feed their own pets a raw diet: it's a business. the fact is that dogs and cats that are fed raw get sick less; more sickness in pets, more money in a vet's pockets. same goes for the ridiculous notion that we should vaccinate them every year. unfortunately our pets can't speak for themselves, so we should have enough sense to do what's in their best interest. 

i was speaking to a local holistic pet supply store owner the other day, who said that he feels that he has to continue to sell commercial food for the older generations who don't know how to "raise a dog properly" (<---his words, not mine). but that he's seeing an increase in the demand for raw food. i think that about sums it up. 

and as far all the nonsense about it being unsafe for dogs/cats: it's not even worth arguing about. i know hundreds of pet owners who feed raw. how many times have i heard of an animal getting ill from eating a raw diet? *ZERO. * their bodies are equipped for this stuff. do a bit of research and it becomes crystal clear. 

cheers to feeding raw











> The *absolute best food * to feed your dog is *RAW*. Get your hands on a copy of *Dr. Billinghurst's * *"The BARF Diet"* and you will never look back. You can order it from DogWise.com. My baby's breath smells sweet, her teeth and gums glisten, her stools are small & few. She's healthy & happy. I was very skeptical about giving my dog "raw bones" at first, but after much research, trial & error, I truly believe the raw diet is what is biologically the best food you can give your baby.
> 
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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> HaHa! Very very cute doggy, by-the-way
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thank you, as is yours.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

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HaHa! Very very cute doggy, by-the-way








[/B][/QUOTE]

As the owner of a diabetic dog and one who has extensively researched the subject for 5 years, I would ask you to substantiate your statement that feeding commercial foods can lead to canine diabetes. Are you a veterinary professional? No where have I ever seen your "tired pancreas" theory published.

Just like with humans, two of the main causes of diabetes in dogs are obesity and genetics. This is from the canine diabetes website which lists the cause of diabetes as:

Risk Factors 

OBESITY - both obese cats and dogs are at risk for developing type II diabetes. Cats over 15 pounds are at high risk. 
DIESTRUS in the unspayed female dog. The period of sexual inactivity after the female is receptive. 

Causes 

genetic 
infectious viral diseases 
immune-mediated destruction of the pancreatic beta cells 
pancreatitis 
drugs: glucocorticoids (steroids) and progestagens (reproductive hormones) 
predisposing diseases: hyperadrenocorticism, acromegaly 

I urge you to go to http://www.petdiabetes.org/diabetes_concepts.htm and educate yourself about canine diabetes.

While you may have legitimate reasons for believing a raw food diet is best, making a statement about a link to canine diabetes with no medical evidence comes across as a scare tactic and discredits everything else you say.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

It is my opinion that each dog is an individual, with individual needs. What is best for one, may be the worst for another. 

I have a friend who fed the "BARF" diet, and her Yorkie was always sick. She finally took her to an Internal Specialist, who recommended she switch to Wellness canned. Her Yorkie is doing MUCH better on the Wellness. Yet I have another friend feeding the "BARF" diet, and her dog is fine.

Let me throw another stick in the spokes. I have a neighbor who has been feeding her Maltipoo "grocery-store" food her entire life. She has been feeding her Ol' Roy from Walmart for the past several years. This Maltipoo is 15-years-old, and runs around like a spring chicken.

As I've stated, each dog is different and should be treated as such.


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## Deanna (Jan 14, 2005)

> "Delicate little tummies" - you're kidding me, right? Maltis are not as sweet & delicate as they look - they're very robust, vigorous & protective! It's just all that long white hair that makes us think they're just these precious little stuffed toys. Like I said, *no matter what the breed*, ALL dogs came from wolves. That is a biological fact. Their digestive systems and mentalities are the same.[/B]



I wasn't going to get involved in this debate- because I think all diets have their place in the world, and it's a very personal choice. However, I felt I need to speak to the above statement. Maltese (and most other purebreds) have been overbred and badly bred for many many years. Many domestic dogs have sensitivities and allergies that wild animals _do not_ have. In the wild its survival of the fittest, but with domestic animals there are those bad breeders out there that continually breed animals knowing of the genetic health issues they have. Humans have created these health issues in our domestic animals, it is our responsibility (as humans) to make sure that only the healtiest animals are bred and that we care for our dogs the best way we can. 

Every person here has done a ton of research on dog foods/diets and has made their own decision. You are doing what you feel is right for _your_ dogs, as the rest of us are for ours. Please respect that.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> It is my opinion that each dog is an individual, with individual needs. What is best for one, may be the worst for another.[/B]


i've stated the exact same thing in similar threads. i couldn't agree with you more.












> I wasn't going to get involved in this debate- because I think all diets have their place in the world, and it's a very personal choice. However, I felt I need to speak to the above statement. Maltese (and most other purebreds) have been overbred and badly bred for many many years. Many domestic dogs have sensitivities and allergies that wild animals _do not_ have. In the wild its survival of the fittest, but with domestic animals there are those bad breeders out there that continually breed animals knowing of the genetic health issues they have. Humans have created these health issues in our domestic animals, it is our responsibility (as humans) to make sure that only the healtiest animals are bred and that we care for our dogs the best way we can.
> 
> Every person here has done a ton of research on dog foods/diets and has made their own decision. You are doing what you feel is right for _your_ dogs, as the rest of us are for ours. Please respect that.[/B]


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

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I'm just saying with all the additives in commercial dog food, particularly anything corn based (which is a high glycemic ingredient (quickly turns to sugar), it just spikes the blood sugar drastically causing a rush of insulin every time, which, after a while, the pancreas gets tired and ergo, you develop diabetes). Chances are prolonged use of certain commercial dog foods can lead to diabetes. Just be sure to check that you don't have any corn or corn like fillers in the food or grains for that matter.

"Raw meaty bone-eating dogs lived much longer than their commercially fed counterparts," Dr. Billinghurst said. "Bone-eating dogs have the wonderful benefits of clean teeth with no periodontal disease, wonderfully improved digestion, a reduction in obesity, fabulous eating exercise, healthy stools, no anal sac problems, and the wonderful psychological, emotional, and immune system benefits that eating raw meaty bones has conferred on dogs for millions of years."



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HaHa! Very very cute doggy, by-the-way








[/B][/QUOTE]

As the owner of a diabetic dog and one who has extensively researched the subject for 5 years, I would ask you to substantiate your statement that feeding commercial foods can lead to canine diabetes. Are you a veterinary professional? No where have I ever seen your "tired pancreas" theory published.

Just like with humans, two of the main causes of diabetes in dogs are obesity and genetics. This is from the canine diabetes website which lists the cause of diabetes as:

Risk Factors 

OBESITY - both obese cats and dogs are at risk for developing type II diabetes. Cats over 15 pounds are at high risk. 
DIESTRUS in the unspayed female dog. The period of sexual inactivity after the female is receptive. 

Causes 

genetic 
infectious viral diseases 
immune-mediated destruction of the pancreatic beta cells 
pancreatitis 
drugs: glucocorticoids (steroids) and progestagens (reproductive hormones) 
predisposing diseases: hyperadrenocorticism, acromegaly 

I urge you to go to http://www.petdiabetes.org/diabetes_concepts.htm and educate yourself about canine diabetes.

While you may have legitimate reasons for believing a raw food diet is best, making a statement about a link to canine diabetes with no medical evidence comes across as a scare tactic and discredits everything else you say.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Very good information, Marj!!!


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## CookieCat (Jan 5, 2005)

Just my .02 

But the whole billinghurst fan club drives me nuts. Its like you are in or out, and most are radically judgmental. I avoid the "raw camps" I don't buy the books. I follow what the vet says and here in Vt its about a 50/50 divide on raw. 

I have fed raw for as long as I can rememeber. I have 6 dogs, one of which is 14 1/2 My mom raised collies and Shelties and she never had health problems with them until she fell victim to the whole "commercial diet" thing. She now feeds raw again to her brood of 7.

SO here it is in a nutshell. Most dogs are exposed to Salmonella and e coli daily, regardless of what they are fed. They can get it walking through your back yard, park etc. Bird poop, farms, other animals, dogs, forget about keeping them disease resistant. As long as I have fed raw, and as long as I have seen it, I have never encountered an animal contracting e. coli or salmonella through feed. Even "dry" can be dangerous, fungus, Aflatoxin is a poisonous substance produced by fungi that grow on grain. Diamond pet foods just had a big recall, dry can be laced with barbituates that are used to euthanize animals, salmonella was found in dogs treats, antibiotics in dry food led to a death of a toddler who consumed the laced food etc. 

Feed whatever is best for your family, forget the judgmental side of things, (even you dry feeders can be judgmental too) I am a vegetarian myself, my dogs aren't. They lack flat grinding teeth, as a matter of fact they do not have a single flat grinding tooth in their entire mouth, which is what makes them carnivores, in addition they have all the perfect enzymes to break down bacteria, bones, and even decaying meat. (which is why a dog can bury a bone and eat it two days later) I guess I hate the "commercialism" and advertising of dog food companies. Dogs survived for thousands of years prior to the invention of crucny and canned dog food which is a very young industry by comparison. Maybe its time to look into what they don't want us to know rather than just blindly accepting what they have to offer. I dunno, my dogs are pretty darn healthy, and their coats are gorgeous, and I don't ever pay for dentals. They are happy, and they are fit and trim so it works for us. But your family may be different. But don't "knock it" unless you've tried it!


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## Gemma (Jan 19, 2006)

> It is my opinion that each dog is an individual, with individual needs. What is best for one, may be the worst for another.[/B]











God forbid if I give Sparkey just a little bit of cottage cheese or cheese or a little bit of my steak ( we don't season our steak at all not even salt) . oh boy he will be sick for days. I break a little bit of my hard boiled egg and give it to him and he will puke 3 times in a row. so even if the vet tells everyone to give cottage cheese that may not be good for all of them. By the way I don't give him any of that anymore. and talking about wind







just one little piece of veggie and I suffer the whole night. actually he is ok with one baby carrot a day. but anything more , forget it.

I really really hate the processed dog food for my dog and I don't even believe the ingredients when they say no by products or junk but unfortunately this is the only thing that works for Sparkey. I do believe most have a very delicate tummy.


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## CookieCat (Jan 5, 2005)

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I wonder if he has allergies, or if their is some truth to the theory that they don't develop the appropriate enzymes needed to break down foods if they aren't ever exposed to them. Who knows, I have fostered goodness knows how many dogs, (maybe 30+) and have 6 of my own and I have never had this experience with raw. Most fosters I get are from an unknown past, and I almost never know what they have eaten prior to me. I can tell you that if I try and transition them to another dry (like Wellness or Innova) I almost always have to deal with diareha, but if I immediately start them out on something like Oma's pride (raw ground mix) I have never once not even had a slightly soft bowel movement. And this is years of experience. I also only foster toy breeds, Maltese, Poms, Pugs and Havanese. No big wolfy dogs, or dogs you would consider "hardy" and outdoorsy. Just little lap dogs. A lot of abuse and neglect cases etc. I usually opt for the raw when they get here since they generally need the highest quality nutrition I can get to them. I never start with a red meat tho' generally chicken or turkey, then I will add lamb sometimes or duck, venison is good too. 

Robyn
and the "kids" 


Also keep in mind that cooking meat (like steak or dark meat poultry) changes the makeup of the fat content and becomes richer and can cause tummy upset.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

I feel I too must jump back here in regard to the generalized accuastion that feeding the commercial foods likely caused diabetes. I ,too, would like to see the actual research that backs that up.
My Missy was also diabetic. Trust me I have researched plenty! I didn't just rely on one website or read one book but contacted every source I coud find including veterinary colleges, research clinical trials etc. I spent the good part of her 3 years always trying to learn more.
Was Missy's diet a bad one? yes indeed it was... we allowed her to eat far too many treats and goodies and yes she became overweight! I am the first to admit that. Her genetics were also bad.
Is there bad commerical food 'out there'..in my opinion yes there is... is there very good high quality food out there ..yes I truly believe there is. 
If commercial food was the cause and contributer on it's own to diabetes... the numbers would be far far higher than they are. Are we allowing our dogs ( as with the overall human population) get overweight..I believe the tendency is to say yes in general. 
My Missy also had bladder cancer,, she had heart disease and terrible discs. We paid out thousands upon thousands of dollars ( then multiply that) for her well-being. As to the vet 'pushing" a commercial diet as opposed to raw.. absolutely not. In fact when the discussion of raw came up she said she felt ideally a home cooked was probably the ideal and advised I'd have to I just be consistant about it. Even suggested sources for reference. I had a very hard time regulating Missy after doing it. ( she was in excellent range when on the prescription food). Her blood panel at dx was "off" but on the 'prepared' food it continued to get consistantly improved and her blood panels within about 6 months almost all were in normal range..and 6 months after that all but perfect and stayed that way for over 3 years. "I believe "terrible food" over a long period would show up some problems in blood panels. 
Now I know the concept of the 'cancer' might make for a 'con' to this case of . But her type of cancer which is pretty rare and only comprises about 1-2% of canine cancers..had been established as connected to pesticides, herbicides, and insecticides. It is my opinion that the problems of health issues is much more connected to the use of the preventives and vaccines which are given in excess today... than the good quality commercial diets.
I do agree the preservatives are bad and owners should inspect for them and go for foods with out those chemicals. 
Now I have Naddie and have been determined to feed her in the best possible way. I happened to be impressed with Merrick foods. I feel very comfortable giving that to her.. treats are in way of veggies for 99% of the time. Yes we do give an occasional "goodie" in a tiny amount and not often. Do I feel everyone should only feed Merrick..absolutely not!.. or feel they are 'short-changing their pets because they don't ..again absilutely not. 
Do I think those who feed raw are 'wrong" no I don't. I feel each person does what they feel in their hearts is best for their particular pooch. There have been many testimonies that the raw has done well by various owners pets. Do I feel comfortable with it no. There are many dogs living on commercial foods living to ripe old ages. 
I don't think any one of us can claim that 'our-way" is the Only-way".


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> I feel I too must jump back here in regard to the generalized accuastion that feeding the commercial foods likely caused diabetes. I ,too, would like to see the actual research that backs that up.
> My Missy was also diabetic. Trust me I have researched plenty! I didn't just rely on one website or read one book but contacted every source I coud find including veterinary colleges, research clinical trials etc. I spent the good part of her 3 years always trying to learn more.
> Was Missy's diet a bad one? yes indeed it was... we allowed her to eat far too many treats and goodies and yes she became overweight! I am the first to admit that. Her genetics were also bad.
> Is there bad commerical food 'out there'..in my opinion yes there is... is there very good high quality food out there ..yes I truly believe there is.
> ...


Terry, that was so well said. Excellent post.


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## bellasmommy (May 8, 2005)

I feed Bella what she can eat without becoming ill, and that happens to be commercial dry dog food. I get the highest quality I can that Bella will eat, and thats the best I can do, but Bella will only eat two brands so far, one the vet has an issue with, and the other isn't considered the "best" or on the whole dog journal list, or anything special. I just feed it to her because it works for her and doesn't make her ill. I think its terrible we feel such guilt over what we feed our dogs because of what people say. So much of our choices depend on many personal factors, I'm trying to become a vegetarian myself, so I will admit that feeding Bella raw meat would probably make me sick, though if it works for others, thats great for them, I just can't do it for many reasons. I like reading about my options though.


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## Teddyandme (Feb 6, 2005)

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I have not read all the posts yet…I actually just started and got to yours Sher and thought I want to write before I even hear what others have said…I also believe that you and I respect each other enough that we won’t let our opinions get in the way of that respect. 

You ask “why commercial food "could not possibly be good for them". I have no hidden agenda... just curious!”

Let me start by saying that we always had dogs when I was growing up and each and every one of them got commercial dog food…sure every once in a while they got table scrapes but by and large it was the commercial and we thought it was great. I only started to question this when I found that my Teddy was allergic to something…at that point the investigation started and something just did not sit well with me.

I found over and over again that kibble just makes money for the dog food company and does very little to give our little ones the nutrition that they actually need in a healthy way. I found that the concept of Kibble was and is relatively new…Ralston Purina is actually a division of the cereal company and the idea came from the company when they could not make enough money on people buying the cereal back in 1957. It was a MARKETING strategy not a nutrition idea. We have all read the ingredients on the packages of most of the dog foods out there and they are total crap and they sell more of them every year…not because they are nutritious or because the companies think they are but because the advertising sucks people in. What a shame because we as a country really do believe the nonsense in the ads most of the time. Before the late 1950’s we as a country feed our dogs “people” food and they thrived and not one company had the nerve to advertise that we were not doing well for our dogs.

I started to think about this…would we as a people ever settle for eating dry kibble just because someone said that it was nutritionally what we needed…I don’t think so. We would still want fresh…. and when we eat fresh fruits and vegetables we are healthier and I think we are crazy if we believe someone who is making money on selling kibble instead of our own good common sense. There was a time in this country when canned formula was supposedly better for our babies than our own breast milk…. and we believed them…. what is wrong with this picture.

It came down to me saying what is better for Teddy…fresh green beans or freeze dried powder that comes from green beans…. do I want Teddy to have real Lamb that I know is from a good source or do I want him to have some portion of lamb that I have no idea is not filled with chemicals or some portion of the lamb like lung or bone meal…yes bone meal is lamb but is it what is best for him. I don’t think so. 

How could a dried cereal filled with less than quality product be more beneficial for our little fluff butts than the real thing and how dare a company try and make me feel inadequate for feeding my Teddy natural whole foods. I find it offensive that they even try…. it is one thing to sell somebody something but do not imply that good nutritious foods are not. On some sites they will actually say that feeding natural is bad for the stomach…and yet the ingredients they use are the same ingredients they are saying is bad to feed them…. WHAT?

I do believe there are good dog food companies out there now…who do use quality products because we as a nation are demanding it…but the majority are still far more worried about bottom line revenue than the health and well being of our fluff butts. I will always choose to feed Teddy a nice homemade dish of fresh ingredients over the best dried kibble.

We as a nation are being fed preservatives and fake food not because it is good for us but because it is making money for food companies…and the same thing is happening with our little angels….


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## Teddyandme (Feb 6, 2005)

After reading the entire thread I wanted to comment on a couple of things...first I personally would not feed Teddy BARF - it just does not make sense to me personally. This could be in large part because he is allergic to beef...and because I personally do not eat meat all that frequently...meat kinda makes me a bit queezy so personally choice has something to do with it.

Teddy gets unprocessed whole fresh food but it is cooked by me....there are only certain foods which we do not cook and they are few...mostly fruit. 

I also believe that to compare a dog with a wolf is not actually comparing apples to apples....yes it is known that dogs have decended from wolves and that wolves eat a raw diet however....we are talking about 15,000 years of evolution and one major theory is that the domestication of the dog came about because of the way in which the dog found and ate food...it is theroized that dogs became more domestized because they instead of hunting raw meat....would hang at the human dumps and eat what was thrown away....which has changed how domestic dogs would eat. Further on down the evolution timeline these same dogs who were good at getting "leftovers" from humans...ingratiated themselves further with humans....to get the humans food...it was easier than hunting. Someone also mentioned them being pack animals and this we all know to be true but again the studies show that our dogs are better at figuring out how to get food then even chimpanzees which are closest to us...meaning our dogs adapt so that they get food....if it is better for them to be by themselves for food....they will be.


Loraine you asked about research...I started with searches on the net...I looked at the pet food sites and learned what each of them said...I plugged in natural diets, raw diets, what they can't have, and any number of other things which came to mind as i was reading and doing the research. I did not trust any one site nor any one opinion but collectively came to my own opinions on the things I beleive. To me....if you have one side and then the other with a huge gap...something must be in the middle somewhere that is more accurate

A huge problem I have with commercial food is the fillers that are used...looking at the package it is likely you would see corn meal, poultry meal, lamb meal and it seems to me that is my biggest complaint...I want my Teddy to have the real deal not some ground up version of the real deal. And again, I don't even think this applies to all dog foods...now we have a much better selection which includes more of the whole foods...but it is still processed and put in kibble form....would you all want to eat the same darn thing every single day for the rest of your life. Even if it was nurtritionally good.

There is an amazing amount of information out there...in books, on the web and on the shelves of pet food stores...we all must decide for our own little ones. 


Thanks for a great thread


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

Many thanks, Susan.
In between popping back to the thread, I've been plugging away at the search engines and I have a lot of comparison printouts, from the chart Kim was kind enough to mention, stuck up all around the place.
My mind is made up and I am going shopping this morning for:
about 4 commercial brands of dry food
fresh chicken, turkey, lamb, duck and beef (fillet of Aberdeen Angus, of course), maybe a little wild salmon
a large bone or two
fresh fruit and vegetables
a food steamer
vegetable seeds, manure and compost to get my veggie patch going again
Oh and lots of air freshener - just in case it gets "windy" around here







I'm joking of course. There are obviously sincerely held views and a great deal of long term dog-owner experience being expressed on both (or is it more?) sides of the debate. This thread has taught me such a lot - thank you everybody.
I may never fully understand dog nutrition but I'm going for trying to ensure my puppy actually eats regularly and eats enough (of something) to grow and mature properly


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

> (fillet of Aberdeen Angus, of course),[/B]


& in case anybody does'nt know it, this beef comes from Scotland


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> After reading the entire thread I wanted to comment on a couple of things...first I personally would not feed Teddy BARF - it just does not make sense to me personally. This could be in large part because he is allergic to beef...and because I personally do not eat meat all that frequently...meat kinda makes me a bit queezy so personally choice has something to do with it.
> 
> Teddy gets unprocessed whole fresh food but it is cooked by me....there are only certain foods which we do not cook and they are few...mostly fruit.
> 
> ...


Hi Susan, thanks for all your great info!! Just one comment, though... from what I've read, actually chicken meal is a very high quality source of protein because it is the chicken without the moisture, so there is actually more concentrated protein by weight than in the same amount of chicken. Corn meal is used as a source of energy and most of the premium dog foods no longer use it.


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## Teddyandme (Feb 6, 2005)

Sher - 

You could very well be correct...I am sorry but I have never researched that because my Teddy is allergic to chicken. My one thought though is that if they are using the bone and the whole of the animal you may be correct, but I don't beleive that making a meal out of the animal and then using it in kibble makes it better. I think if we just feed out little ones a natural diet of a wide variety of things they can eat then they get great nutrition.

I have found that this may be my pet peeve subject...dog food manufacturers. I really try and be open, but I know they are in it for money not the best interest of our little ones.

Lorraine - 

I do appriciate your posts...and humor is a good thing...I did want to comment that Teddy has never had gas ever....and he has regular bowel movements...no more or less than any other little fluffbutt.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Hi Susan and Teddy......Susan I loved your posts. I agree wholeheartedly. Teddy, you are one lucky dog to have a Mom who will take the time to see you have nothing but the best!

I've done a lot of the same sort of research, anywhere I can find it. I don't like one (like BARF) theory. I have to get as many different sources as I can, then use parts of several to fit. I discount BARF type mostly because I don't want to handle food containing raw meat in my kitchen. I use very little meat and when I do I'm paranoid about cleanliness with it.

Lorraine---I know you where being funny, but you mentioned Salmon. *Cooked* salmon may be fine---but raw trout and salmon is a *biggggggg no no! *They are very poisonous to dogs. Hopefully we all know that.


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## AmyLuv (Jul 4, 2006)

> Hi Susan and Teddy......Susan I loved your posts. I agree wholeheartedly. Teddy, you are one lucky dog to have a Mom who will take the time to see you have nothing but the best!
> 
> I've done a lot of the same sort of research, anywhere I can find it. I don't like one (like BARF) theory. I have to get as many different sources as I can, then use parts of several to fit. I discount BARF type mostly because I don't want to handle food containing raw meat in my kitchen. I use very little meat and when I do I'm paranoid about cleanliness with it.
> 
> ...


"I discount BARF type mostly because I don't want to handle food containing raw meat in my kitchen. I use very little meat and when I do I'm paranoid about cleanliness with it." -* All you have to do is wash your hands a lot, before and after handling the meat. It's a small sacrifice to make in order to feed your dog what it needs.*


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## Teddyandme (Feb 6, 2005)

I bet most of us would walk through fire for our little ones....but the question here is what is best. None of us really know - we must use our own good judgement. Educating each other by having these discussions is awesome, and really helps..but please don't imply that someone is not doing all they can by not feeding BARF...

It is a personal choice...one we all must decide for our own little fluffbutts.


Thanks Frosty's Mom.... I try to give Teddy what I think he needs. I know you do the same for Frosty.


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

*Susan*
You are right... I was being flippant. But I once was a dog-sitter for a friend's cocker spaniel who was on a strict vegetable only diet recommended by his Vet for some health reason or other. The memory of his "emissions" will haunt me for ever.









*Dee*
Fear not. I picked up the poisonous to dogs thang some time ago. I always used have a big display of white lillies in my fireplace during season. My Westie knows better than to go near them but not the new lad. Now they are gone... in favour of a kitch statue of a "ikkle girl with her doggie". The same goes for my garden, I have a garden maintenance man who is delighted that I will source his next new car by paying him to chop down and rip out some very choice trees and plants that are (or may be) poisonous to dogs.


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## MickeysMom (Jun 16, 2006)

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Amyluv, I appreciate your trying to educate us all on raw feeding. but you really seem to be pushing the issue on some, and implying that those who do not feed raw food, aren't taking care of their dogs. It is all about what we each personally want to, and feel comfortable with, feeding OUR OWN dogs. So while there may be tons of evidence that "raw is best" you have to let us all decide on our own if we want to feed raw or not. And if someone decides that they're not comfortable with it, then let it be. You do what's best for your dogs, and others will do what's best for their dogs.
I hope you're not offended, but you have to be reasonable here and know that not everyone will agree with you, and the more you keep pushing the issue, the more and more they may disagree.
Just my 2 cents.


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

Amyluv, I appreciate your trying to educate us all on raw feeding. but you really seem to be pushing the issue on some, and implying that those who do not feed raw food, aren't taking care of their dogs. It is all about what we each personally want to, and feel comfortable with, feeding OUR OWN dogs. So while there may be tons of evidence that "raw is best" you have to let us all decide on our own if we want to feed raw or not. And if someone decides that they're not comfortable with it, then let it be. You do what's best for your dogs, and others will do what's best for their dogs.
I hope you're not offended, but you have to be reasonable here and know that not everyone will agree with you, and the more you keep pushing the issue, the more and more they may disagree.
Just my 2 cents.








[/QUOTE]


Great post MickeysMom!


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