# I'm sick of puppy stage



## design by dawn (Jan 22, 2008)

seriously- if sophie wasn't sooo cute- she'd be out!

i'm sick of the pooping off of pee pad
i'm sick of the biting my hand or everything else game!
I'm sick of the talking back to me
i'm sick of the not coming when commanded to come and running from me instead
i'm sure i'm sick of other things!!!!

when is the puppy stage of biting on me over?

and when is it typical for them to be potty trained? what age?

when is it typical for them to be full grown?

we start puppy kindergarten tonight! thank god! I can't stand this anymore- 
i'm also not allowing her to roam the house anymore- but then feel bad cuz in the morning she wants to play and get out from playpen to exercise but i have two young children that i have to hover over and get ready for school as well.... I was thiniking that it was safe to let her roam alittle after she pooped or peed- but then am finding that she is still relieving herself here and there- finding the "surprises"


I really want a well behaved dog- but just don't know how to get there? hopefully this class will help-
what books are good?
heard scared poopless
whatelse?


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## phesty (May 30, 2006)

Josie says: Just put her in a box and send her to my house!!! I'm dying for a little sister.

Hang in there! The puppy issues slowly get better. On biting...you can yelp loudly and fold your arms against your chest and not look at Sophie for ten or twenty seconds. I did this with Josie and it really helped. I'm not much help in the pottypad area because Josie is outside trained. And Josie still prances away from me at times when she's wound up, so I'm not any help there either. But I'd be more than willing to take that little lovebug off your hands...


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Whoa! Puppies don't come totally trained. How is she to know to come to you or anything else unless you teach her. Is she your first puppy?


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## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

Wandering the house during puppy stage is definitely NOT a good thing. Sorry you aren't enjoying it. I love, love, love the puppy stage. When she's finished eating and goes to the bathroom, put her in the crate while you get the kids ready for school. If you don't stop the peeing and pooping in the house now, it may be a problem as she gets older. At this point, she doesn't know better. You may also want to give her something besides you for chewing.  If she tries to chew on you, stick something else in her mouth.

Hope the training classes help. You really have to be consistant with a puppy, or they will never learn. Good luck. I sure wish you were enjoying this more.


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## widgeon (Apr 23, 2007)

I love the puppy stage too. It's a great bonding time. Use a little patience and training and you will be fine!! Hang in there. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Zoe and Bella's mom (Jan 23, 2006)

Take one day at a time...with PATIENCE...and a _LOT_ of _praise_ and _love_ when she does something right. 

ginny & zoe & bella


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## design by dawn (Jan 22, 2008)

yeah- we usually give her something else to chew on that is acceptable

i just don't know how to train- i need to be trained to train her!

she comes with the command come when she wants of course- but for example when we are sitting on the floor and i have her on her peepad and saying potty- she plays this game of jumping into my arms/lap and then i put her back.... sometimes she excapes- and runs away and of course does not want to "come"----

anyways--- we'll hold on

what is the typical should be potty trainined and stop chewing age?
or what age does she stop being a puppy and become a dog? about? just so i have a little bit of an idea


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

How old is she? You might be expecting too much from her, at a young age. Just be patient and above all, be *consistent* with your training methods. Those will become clearer after you start puppy kindergarten. Bonnie learned wee wee pads very quickly, but all dogs are different. Are you using the pads that come with the scent in them? Those might help. And don't get discouraged. Just enjoy her enthusiasm now, and as someone else said, use this puppy time and training to bond with her. You'll get through it. We're here to help.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

You just described a normal puppy. The problem is that she is lacking structure, confinement, and positive interaction with you. Puppy class is a great start. 

Bookwise, I would get Karen Pryor's Don't Shoot the Dog and Jean Donaldson's Culture Clash. Culture Clash has a great explanation of how dogs learn and how to address common problems. Its an easy read, too. 

As was said, puppies thrive on consistency. She needs a more formal schedule for eating, pottying, playing, etc. She needs time set aside for supervised play. She needs to get out and play in the yard and/or go for walks. 

*i'm sick of the pooping off of pee pad*
Puppies do not come housetrained. They do not know what a pee pad or grass is for. It is up to you to teach them. I would get her a crate and set your pen up to be 2x3 or 2x4 with the entire bottom covered with pee pads. Take her to the potty place at potty times. Stand with her and praise and treat when she goes. This way, she cannot miss and will always be a good girl. If she does not go, back in the crate and try again in 15 minutes. Setting potty time on her schedule can be very helpful. When you do play with her while you are actively supervising, play near her pen with the pen open in case she needs to go. 


*i'm sick of the biting my hand or everything else game!*
Puppies do not have hands. They explore their world with their mouths. Just because we people don't like it doesn't make it any less the only way they have of exploring. If she bites your skin or pants, yelp loudly, end the game (get up and turn around), and ignore her. If you need to, keep her on a leash so you can take her to her crate for a calm down break. I have occasionally used another method - taking your hand when they bite and gently forcing it further into their mouth so they are trying to spit it out. Instead of pulling away for a fun game, they are trying to spit it out. Then ignore/game over. You also need to provide lots of toys she can chew on - nylabones, fluffy toys, latex squeaks, rope toys, etc. Always have one handy so that when you see the bitey-ness coming, toss a toy in her mouth and play with that. She will always experience her world with her mouth...so we need to provide her with appropriate things to mouth. 


*I'm sick of the talking back to me*
I assume you mean barking at you? My main response to barking it asking my dog to do an incompatible behavior (sit, down, etc.) and rewarding for that. Sometimes when puppies are just barking to be smart, I turn around and leave the room and only come back when they are quiet and praising for quiet. I NEVER play games or release my dogs from a crate when yapping (obviously I'm excluding the I have to potty bark). 

*i'm sick of the not coming when commanded to come and running from me instead*
Catch-me-if-you-can is a great game to puppies. If you don't want to play it then have her drag a light leash so you can prevent it. If she does get away, turn around and run away ignoring her. Praise her when she comes to you. Teach come with a long line. Use the same word and use a great treat or toy as a reward. Play the recall game - have you and someone else sit across from each other. Hold the pup while the other calls her and gets very excited. Let her go to run to the other person. Treat when she gets there. Send her back and forth. This is a restrained recall (where we hold the dog back and get them very excited) and helps to make the game fun and enthusiastic. Practicing in puppy class will be great, too. 

*i'm sure i'm sick of other things!!!!*
Puppies are like having an extra toddler around. They take a LOT of work to be nicely adjusted, well-trained family members. Everyone gets frustrated. That's why my dogs have time out breaks - I can't work with them when they are too wired and I'm frustrated. If you truly think things are not working out, please do not keep her. Return her to the breeder if she came from a reputable one, or give her to a rescue organization to place. There is no point in you being unhappy and frustrated and her ending up with behavior problems. I think very highly of people who recognize things are not right and take the proper steps to remedy them than people who do a half-a$$ed job and end up with a major problem. Give the pup a chance while she's still young, not when she has 3 years of poor behavior under her collar.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm sorry I'm laughing here by myself......do you have kids???? :HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley: Mia thought my hand was a chew toy....yes she out grew it! Peanut is 1 and is still going to the bathroom in the house as soon as I bring him in from a walk! :smpullhair: :smpullhair: And talking back you either don't have a teenager or don't remember those years. Sorry! :HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley:


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> yeah- we usually give her something else to chew on that is acceptable
> 
> i just don't know how to train- i need to be trained to train her!
> 
> ...


I hate to say it but Maltese often act like puppies for many years. That is one of the things most of us love about them. But the nipping and biting usually stops or slows way down after teething ... probably at around 6-8 months, if I am remembering correctly. 

For me, I found the best way to avoid getting nipped was to stop playing right way and jump up and turn away. If they nipped at my feet I kept walking and ignored them. This worked well for me. But even so, it didn't get significantly better until they got a little older. With all three of the Malt puppies I've raised I always had little teeth marks all over my hands and arms!

To teach her to come... Have her on a leash (with harness not collar) and you are at the other end. Get her attention by saying her name and say in an upbeat and enthusiastic voice, "come". If she doesn't move, gently tug on the leash and sort of pull her toward you. When she gets there praise her to high heaven and give her a teeny bit of a treat. One that she can eat quickly and therefore remember why she got it. You will probably need to spend about 10-15 minutes every day working with her to get this perfected. Eventually you can use a longer lead such as a long rope and then no rope at all. You want to make sure that she responds the first time you say the word or else she will learn to come on the 2nd or 3rd time you say it. Eventually you'll be able to do away with giving the treats every time. It just takes one step at a time to teach them.

You will likely learn a lot at the training class but it will still require at least 15 minutes a day for her to get it all. My experience is that puppies are hard to train as they just have a short attention span. As they get older they'll be more interested in learning, I think.

Once a Malt is about 2-3 years old it seems like it becomes more about us than about them. They are less self-centered and more loving and interested in pleasing us.

EDIT: Yikes I was writing this as a real expert JMM was posting. I wouldn't have posted had I known you had such great advice from her!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

She's only ten or eleven weeks old now, right? Please, please don't take her to puppy kindergarten classes yet! Puppies have to have their full set of shots plus two weeks for full immunity before being exposed to other dogs at grooming salons, puppy classes, pet shops, dog parks, etc. That's usually not until about four months.

She is at great risk now for deadly diseases like parvo. Any immunity she may still have from nursing is usually killed in those first shots leaving her totally unprotected from diseases like parvo. It's called the "window of susceptibilty". Exposing her to other dogs at her age can kill her. We had a sad case here this summer where a family lost two Pomeranian puppies to parvo. They'd had two out of their three shots and the family thought they were protected.

As far as her behavior, remember Maltese puppies should not be taken from their mothers until twelve weeks old so she missed a lot of important social lessons like bite inhibition. You will have to be be very patient with her and work extra hard to teach her lessons she should have learned from her mom and littermates.

Again, please don't take her to pupy classes yet. I am actually surprised that they would even let you enroll a puppy who hasn't had all her shots.


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## Cupcake2007 (Jan 22, 2008)

the problems ou just mentioned sound just like little miss CupCake. It DOES take time and CONSISTANCY (sp) but it does help. I've noticed that she now knows when shes told to sit she sits, and when to come she comes... but sometimes i have to trick her. From her kennel she can she when we leave and i always tell her "Bye Cupcake!" then i leave. so when im trying to get her to come, i say "Bye Cupcake" and she comes prancing out from wherever she was hiding. my CupCake has attitude like crazy. lol but i love her and i love spending as much time as i can with her. As for the biting, she just wants to play. when Cup started biting like crazy, we noticed she was teething. so that can be the problem as well.  we r still trying to get the potty training happening. i try to train her for inside, but daddy tries to train her outside, so i think shes gotten confused and just goes where ever. also, if your children play rough with her, she can think its ok to play rough and be all crazy lol. i know i get pissed when robby is playing rough with her cuz then she thinks its ok to be all like a crazy. they are like kids. and most of the time they pick up the bad stuff more than the good. it is our job to teach them. just pretnend shes a little human puppy. haha  good luck!!!


CupCake says: my mommy tries to train me but i look at her and run. but then she gets sad so i listen.


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## thefab5 (Feb 1, 2007)

> She's only ten or eleven weeks old now, right? Please, please don't take her to puppy kindergarten classes yet! Puppies have to have their full set of shots plus two weeks for full immunity before being exposed to other dogs at grooming salons, puppy classes, pet shops, dog parks, etc. That's usually not until about four months.
> 
> She is at great risk now for deadly diseases like parvo. Any immunity she may still have from nursing is usually killed in those first shots leaving her totally unprotected from diseases like parvo. It's called the "window of susceptibilty". Exposing her to other dogs at her age can kill her. We had a sad case here this summer where a family lost two Pomeranian puppies to parvo. They'd had two out of their three shots and the family thought they were protected.
> 
> ...


Good Advice Marge!
I agree not to take her to puppy classes until she is at least 4 or more months old. When they are that young they don't get it yet. It is just like teaching a new born....they have to develop first.


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## thinkpink (Sep 25, 2004)

I was very overwhelmed when Bella came home too. I remember her being a full time job and I wondered myself if things would ever change. I don't remember exactly when things changed, looking back I wish I had kept a diary about all the things she did because I've forgotten so much. One day though it seemed like a switch turned on and many of the annoying behaviors subsided. Something that is probably common sense, but I never did it with any of my other dogs, I talk to Bella all the time. I mean constantly. It wasn't long before I noticed she'd do things that I never even taught her to do. Just know that as crazy as it is now, it will get better. Try to enjoy it because they grow up so very fast.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> I was very overwhelmed when Bella came home too. I remember her being a full time job and I wondered myself if things would ever change. I don't remember exactly when things changed, looking back I wish I had kept a diary about all the things she did because I've forgotten so much. One day though it seemed like a switch turned on and many of the annoying behaviors subsided. Something that is probably common sense, but I never did it with any of my other dogs, I talk to Bella all the time. I mean constantly. It wasn't long before I noticed she'd do things that I never even taught her to do. Just know that as crazy as it is now, it will get better. Try to enjoy it because they grow up so very fast.[/B]


Yes! I know what you mean about talking to them. They are sooo smart! Mine really amaze me all the time. Like every time we go to bed I'll say, "Let's go to mommy's bed". They know that is different from "Let's go on the sofa" or "Mommy's going to go work out" or "it's time for supper." And when they see me look in the mirror at the back of my hair when getting ready for work, they go in to their crates! I never taught them that but they know that the next thing I'll do after looking at the back of my hair is to get ready to leave. It's like a cue for them... Gosh, I soooo love the Maltese breed!! :wub:


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

Puppies are not for everyone... They do require a lot of work, patience, training, vet visits, money, etc.



I URGE anyone to consider issues like this.... *BEFORE *you get the puppy. :smpullhair:


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## jazak (Feb 12, 2008)

Wow I just want to say you all have such great advice. Max is really well behaved for a puppy, I think. But everything that you guys had to say could help even more!!! My biggest problem is that he loves to be out side, I mean loves it. And he doesn't want to come back in after potty time, well when it is 17 degrees outside, I want to go back in. And when I try to get him he will run circles around me, I am sure all my neighbors pop popcorn for our potty outings, I mean I look like I am chasing my own tail!!!! Max is 13 weeks old and since I am home all the time with him I have alot of opportunity to work with him. the thing that I find difficult for training is that Max doesn't like treats!! I have bought him several different kinds and I even asked the vet and the ones that they suggested he snubbed. I just praise, praise, praise, but sometimes I just don't know if that is good enough. luckily I think the whole potty thing is getting figured out, still have accidents, but only like 1 every two or three days. and Max only chews on my kids toys, but if I tell him no, he will stop and go straight for the things that he knows are acceptable. Like he is just testing me to see if he can expand his inventory of toys. Really think I am lucky.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

You're not going to have the 'perfect' dog for quite a while. You're been having to deal with this when she should have been with the breeder until she was 12 weeks old, and then she would come to you a better socialized (hopefully!) adjusted puppy. 

My puppies are 4 mos old now and I do not expect any type of consitancy with them. If they pee on the floor, it's my fault for not making sure they pee BEFORE they get loose to run around. Mine don't bite and I don't know if that is because mom did her job and made sure they knew their boundaries! BTW, she weaned them at 6 weeks old but was still involved in their 'training'. They don't have to stay with the MOM for 12 weeks but they should definitely stay with the breeder. 

So try not expecting too much too soon adn you won't drive yourself nuts!


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

Oh boy, I was in for a bit of a rude awakening when we got Ollie. I also have two young children. I can't say that any of his antics surprised me too much except that we had something you didn't mention--he was a terrible sleeper BECAUSE we had him down in the kitchen and he was scared, etc. Took me a while to figure that one out. I thought over time he'd get used to being alone down there, but all it did was make me sleepless. I can handle ANYTHING except sleepless!!! Anyway, that got better with some adjustments....

I compare Ollie to having a skin kid a lot--a baby is a baby and a todder is a toddler and you can't expect anything more or else you will grow resentful and therefore not train her right. I'd highly suggest picking up a training book ASAP. If you need the basics, which it sounds like you do, try "Puppies for Dummies" (lol--yes, I read it). Very basic, very straight forward.

Buckle your seat belt because the antics go on for at least 18 mos + from what I've read and experienced. And, even then, this breed is a spunky sport beyond that. 

Just like with skin kids YES it can get overwhelming (I think my least favorite years was when both of mine were toddlers at the same time--I thought I was going to have to check into the looney bin) but you have to keep everything in perspective and remind yourself that the time is short and enjoy it! What you make of her now will be her for the rest of her life! We're here for you!


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

mini's 17 months and STILL a live wire. sometimes she's so animated she drives me NUTS! LOL!! however, i have found a couple things that make her more manageable... one is a good long play sessions (ie: fetch) to tire her out. the second is training sessions. she LOVES to do stuff for treats! LOL! in the process we've both benefited from it. she gets her play time and attention...and she gets smarter and more well behaved.

mass has pretty much always been a laid back dewd, such a well mannered little man. mini was a jolt to the system to say the least... but she sure keeps us all entertained! LOL!!!

anyway, just buckle yourself in and try to enjoy the ride. they aren't puppies forever!


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## design by dawn (Jan 22, 2008)

wow, okay!

I knew what i was getting into and expected this--- but just sick of it--- seriously who really enjoyed poop in thier house on thier carpet and biting at your hand! Yes, I have two young children, 5 and 8 and can't wait for them to grow up too!!! LOL I did childcare for 8 years and recently ended that out of my house- and now do photography (own business) studio outside of house- so i am home a lot with her and do spend plently of time with her.

from what you are all saying- i am doing all of that!!! yeah for me!!!! got the whole crate thing going on, schedule of eating, nap, and play! but problem was when i started giving her a little leeway.... my kids know that her playpen is off limits to them and if she goes in there that means she is done with you! It's winter and below 0 here so no walking going on here! I hate the cold- i never even took my human kids outside when they were young!

everywhere around here starts puppy classes at 8weeks of age?????

and i see a lot of people are being negative about getting the dogs so young- but if you want a dog around here- you better take it when you can otherwise you won't get one, especially a female! so too late, not helping, on that subject!!!!

i was kidding about getting rid of her, like you didn't know! who would spend this much time on a pet forum that didn't care and didn't want to keep thier dog? yes, if i could have bought a full grown dog (maltese) i would have- actually there was one for adoption 5 hrs from me, but days went by with no reply to email or phone message- and then saw on petfinder- she was adopted!

there have been many times i want to get rid of my kids as well and i'm sick of them- ALOT, but know it takes work to raise children and you obviously are not just going to give them away! Just looking for the tips and tricks to get through this and need to learn myself how to train- so that is why i'm here on this forum for the help and advise! Thanks!!!!! 

and thank you to the person that emailed me- and letting me know that i'm not alone!!!!


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## CocosMom (May 7, 2007)

I recommend you read the book Puppy Preschool (Amazon link). We used it for Coco and found it really helpful. It helps teach you you need to create boundaries for your puppy and how to correct them when they're misbehaving.


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

Dawn, I think you are doing the right thing by considering puppy kindergarten. Also, all the things which are so frustrating right now WILL get better. Karli started getting really sweet and stopped trying to bite at about six months. Puppies are like children and are born with totally different temperaments. Some are very submissive, some are very dominant, and there's the whole continuum of personalities in between. My last malt. was very sweet and submissive. Karli, who came from the same breeder is very sweet but very dominant. From your description of Sophie, I'd say she's more dominant. Karli was a hand and heel biter and would sass me by barking at me when I would let her know she was doing something I didn't approve of. The more dominant dogs can require a little more patience and a little more persistence with training than one which is more in the middle of the continuum.

Every book I've read on training and every training instructor has said the earlier the training begins the better. I'm not advocating taking a puppy for puppy kindergarten somewhere like PetSmart because they are a Vet. Hospital (sick dogs) and allow any dog to visit the store without proof of vaccinations. There's no telling WHAT microorganisms are there. I did however take Karli to a puppy class at a location where all puppies are required to have started their shots and all dogs attending obedience classes were required to be vaccinated. 

I remember the instructor telling us our puppies were going to be learning some things which would be too late to teach them after four months. (I can't remember, but I think Karli was very close to four months when I took her.) You might ask your Vet. what his thoughts are about attending the puppy kindergarten class. Mine said it was okay at the location I planned to attend.

Because of some tips and techniques learned from puppy class, I can lay Karli on her back (we learned the correct way to do this without hurting her back) and clip her nails and even use a trimmer to trim her paw pads without her minding at all. Socially, she's a little social butterfly. Karli went on to Level I Obedience and will do her basic commands with me using hand signals. I couldn't ask for a sweeter dog now, but early on, she really tested me on my dog leadership skills.

Just remember, dogs and puppies have to be taught what's acceptable to humans, they don't instinctively know it.



Here's a thread I started when Karli was a puppy which lists some good puppy resources:


Puppy Resources



Joy


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## PreciousPrince (Feb 27, 2006)

Hi there! How old is she? If she's not even 3 months yet like someone else asked, she is still very very much a baby. To tell you the truth, Perri was actually a pretty good puppy, and it was still hard at times. It didn't take him long to potty train looking back on it, but when you're going through it, I know it feels like they'll NEVER be trained. Also, even with having a good puppy, I did not enjoy the puppy stage. I remember taking him over to my parents house and saying "here watch him for an hour" bc I needed a break from all the "puppyness." 
I much prefer it when they are cuddled up sleeping on the couch with you. People say to enjoy the puppy stage bc they'll be grown up before you know it, but I don't miss it at all and loved it when he started growing up. I remember I really started enjoying him a lot more when he was about 7 months. He had learned everything by 6 months, and by then his personality was coming out more and he was just more fun. 
I just wanted to tell you this so you wouldn't feel alone. I think a puppy class is an excellant idea but you really do need to wait until she's had all her shots before taking her to training or anywhere else public besides the vet. Work a lot with her at home, like I said Perri had learned tons of commands, his boundaries at the house such as no going out the front door, not leaving yard to go in driveway, etc by or during the time his was 6 months. This is the time that they learn sooo much, so capitalize on that. As far as books, one I really liked and would recommend was Little Dogs: Training Your Pint Sized Companion by Deborah Wood. I think I bought it at Target, I've also seen it at Petsmart and Barnes and Noble. Also at Petsmart/Petco and B & N are Maltese books, pick up a few of those, they have good info on Maltese care as well as basic training. 
Good luck, and with your help and patience, it will get better!


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

I'm with Marj. I would not enroll her in puppy classes until two weeks after her shots are completed. :thumbsup:


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## dogloverx3 (Apr 14, 2006)

I own a puppy and a 1 year old whirl wind - I try and enjoy every stage of their lives . I must admit with my ownership of rescues , I was lucky to avoid the puppy stage - I confess I like the adult stage BEST :aktion033: . Sarah and her assorted ages 5


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## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

Marj and Deb, I'm thick-skulled, so help me understand where you're coming from on the waiting until later on the training. Is there a resource I've not read that would enlighten me? I don't want to highjack this thread about the age for puppy class, but I did read a stack of training books before I got Karli and all of them said the earlier the training, the better. I just tried to look online to see what I could find and found this from Purdue. It's similiar to what I've read in the latest training books.



Puppy Class Protocol from Purdue


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

Let me just butt in here...I think the issue of not going to training yet has more to do w/not having gotten all the pup's shots yet. Because these dogs are so small, it's just a precaution. Two weeks certainly won't hurt, and in my opinion, better to be safe than sorry. You just don't know who is sick and who isn't. 

As far as training goes, limits are wonderful. I would strongly suggest using the play yard as her "free space" until she is much older. Limit running around the house to maybe 15 minutes before bedtime...both for the pup and the children! I really recommend the book "House Training for Dummies". It is very easy and has great schedules to follow. Remember to take baby steps...and think of it like human potty training. The only difference is that it takes only a few weeks (maybe 6-12 weeks tops) and no diapers! Remember, your human kids took a lot longer to potty train than the pup will! 

One final thought, your pup is still very young. Don't expect too much in the way of training until 14 to 16 weeks of age. Invest in a good pad for your play yard and use the cabana (crate). Dogs, like children, love a schedule so by all means use one. 

Good luck and we are here for you....


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I never had a biting issue with any of my three maltese. But then they were 14 weeks, 6 months and 6 months when they came to me. The potty training was a bit of a challenge even when I felt like I was doing everything right. I'd say that mine were completely reliable by the time they were 9 months. But, if they made a mistake it was MY fault, for not paying closer attention. I love an older puppy.......


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> Marj and Deb, I'm thick-skulled, so help me understand where you're coming from on the waiting until later on the training. Is there a resource I've not read that would enlighten me? I don't want to highjack this thread about the age for puppy class, but I did read a stack of training books before I got Karli and all of them said the earlier the training, the better. I just tried to look online to see what I could find and found this from Purdue. It's similiar to what I've read in the latest training books.
> 
> 
> 
> Puppy Class Protocol from Purdue[/B]



It's not a training issue, but a health issue. The first shots a puppy gets kill any remaining maternal antibodies to deadly diseases so a puppy Sophie's age is probably completely unprotected, especially from parvo. It's called the "window of susceptibilty":

The primary cause of failure of canine parvovirus vaccines is an interfering level of maternal antibody against the canine parvovirus. Maternal antibodies are the antibodies present in the mother's milk during the first 24 hours after the puppy's birth. The age at which puppies can effectively be immunized is proportional to the titer of the mother and the effectiveness of colostral transfer of maternal antibody within those first 24 hours. High levels of maternal antibodies present in the puppies' bloodstream will block the effectiveness of a vaccine. When the maternal antibodies drop to a low enough level in the puppy, immunization by a commercial vaccine will work. The complicating factor is that there is a period of time from several days to a couple weeks in which the maternal antibodies are too low to provide protection against the disease, but too high to allow the vaccine to work. This period is called the window of susceptibility. This is the time when despite being vaccinated, a puppy can still contract parvovirus. The length and timing of the window of susceptibility is different in every litter.

A study done in 1985 in a cross section of different puppies showed, that the age at which they were able to respond to a vaccine and develop protection covered a wide period of time. *At six weeks of age, 25% of the puppies could be immunized. At 9 weeks of age, 40% of the puppies were able to respond to the vaccine. The number increased to 60% by 16 weeks, and by 18 weeks of age, 95% of the puppies could be immunized*.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cl...p;articleid=467

As Precious Prince said, you can certainly work on training your puppy in the safety of her home during this period, but the risk is too great to take them to puppy classes IMO.


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## SillieMillie (Nov 2, 2007)

As far as books go I really like Victoria Stillwell's "Its me or the Dog", also her Animal Planet TV show is great. Also Cesar Millan is good. Both these have really practical suggestions, where Karen Prior and Jean Donaldson are great but a little more technical to get into.
I went looking for an older rescue when I got Milly, something around 2 years old. I really thought I didn't want to do the puppy thing again. Then Milly showed up on petfinder and she was six months old and irresistable. And actually this time around I've enjoyed the puppiness. It is hard work, I agree. Especially the house training. I live in an upstairs condo so I had to go up and down stairs a dozen times a day to take her out!
Good luck with the training classes.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

As far as the earlier training the better - I don't necessarily agree with that. Bonnie didn't have her first training classes until after she was a year old, and she did very well. In other words - you CAN teach an old dog new tricks. :aktion033: :aktion033: 

I say, better (MUCH BETTER) safe than sorry - wait until all the shots have been given, and then a few weeks.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

The short attention span of a young pup may require re-taking those
classes again in a few months or so if you take her at a very young age.
I'm also leary of them being exposed to viruses out there since
they are not fully immunized at this stage.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

She is much too young to be given any leeway. My "rule of thumb" is three solid weeks of what you want before starting to offer freedom. 

On puppy classes...most puppy classes take pups 12+ weeks old. Of course, everywhere is different. That should equate to the first 2 vaccinations having been finished. 

I always tell people what technically is right (vacc finished), but I will also tell you what I do with my puppies. My Maltese are in a vet clinic during the day from the day they get home. My other pups (large breed) are in there at 8 weeks. Partly it is necessity (I have to work and they have to be taken out), but the other part is they get awesome socialization. By 12 weeks we're in class or getting toted along to class with another dog. When shots are finished, they're getting toted along to shows and doing fun matches (if they are conformation pups, they're in the match; otherwise I'll work the match and bring a pup to hang out). I truly appreciate my dogs being "bomb proof" when they go out and not having trouble working with distractions. Heck, Soda learned to heal offleash in the vet's lobby and next to an agility class. He's rock solid. Not exactly following the rules, but that tends to be how life is.


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## Tallulah's Mom (Jan 8, 2007)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=526123
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow! That sounds like Tallulah!!! She's knows "are you hungry?" "Do you want to go bye-bye?" "Daddy's home" "Grandma's here" and all of our names!!! That is so neat that they know to go to their crates when you are getting ready for work!! 

Tallulah still acts puppy like. (without the accidents everywhere!!) The nippy stage usually lasts through teething, as Kellie/Catcher's mom said. She still knows who she can be more playful with. For instance, with my son Trevor Tallulah still will 'play" nip at his socks, yet she knows I won't put up with that behavior at all! I think that just like with kids puppies need consistency. You can't let them do something you don't like one minute and then get mad at them another time for the same behavior. They do slow down a little as they mature, but maltese always seem to carry the puppy spirit in them through their lives. :wub: Good luck with your puppy, she is a little doll!


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## design by dawn (Jan 22, 2008)

had first class tonight, without puppy and have to say- wow well worth it- i will continue- all the pets are required to be up to date with shots- she's been in 2x for shots already- and this lady is like the worlds 2nd trainer / show dog person in the world or something- i think she'd know and would not allow pups this age if it was not safe- and if it wasn't- i'm sure she'd realize that too many pups are getting sick from her class...

and the info she presented so far is teaching us how to respond or not to your dogs behavior....
and the socialization at this young of an age is important so they do not fear "wierd" looking dogs and know how to act when walking them in your neighborhood- they don't freak at other dogs- cuz they are "used" to being around others and know that they are not in danger or need to have the instinct to bark for defense....


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## bentleyboy (Dec 13, 2006)

I was really anxious with Bentley when he was a pup. I thought he would never get the hang of peeing outside, not biting, and obeying. My boyfriend at the time reminded me that he will in time. Anyway he is one and a half now and both my dogs are staying with granny and grampa while my house gets remodeled. My Dad says Bentley is such an obedient dog (thats with no puppy school cause he did not take to it). He says Brie is a monkey! but then again she is still a puppy. One day she will get it. 


Don't worry! Relax and enjoy the cuteness. She will sort herself out, i promise.


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## Luna'sMom (Oct 7, 2007)

> She's only ten or eleven weeks old now, right? Please, please don't take her to puppy kindergarten classes yet! Puppies have to have their full set of shots plus two weeks for full immunity before being exposed to other dogs at grooming salons, puppy classes, pet shops, dog parks, etc. That's usually not until about four months.
> 
> Again, please don't take her to pupy classes yet. I am actually surprised that they would even let you enroll a puppy who hasn't had all her shots.[/B]


My puppy school enrolled pups that were 10 weeks+ and it was helt at my vet. The room was mopped down with Trigene before and after puppy classes and all the pups had to have been given a clean bill of health before the first class (and were up to at least their 1st set of shots). I wouldn't go to a puppy class at a place where unknown dogs would come in the equation but if helt by a vet I would be confident everything would be fine. 

Puppies should get socialization before 4 months old - the most important times for socialization are like 10-14 weeks - that is why a safe puppy school is important. 

I agree that pups shouldn't go to the park, pet stores, grooming salons until all their shots are done. 

I know about the dangers of parvo - my first pup died to it (after being exposed to it at the 'breeders') - and I was very antsy about taking Luna anywhere but the vet said the puppy school would be fine (and encouraged me to go). Of course there are risks - but I feel that the puppy school at 10 weeks to 16 weeks REALLY helped Luna get over her fear of new places/people/dogs and it wouldn't have been as useful at an older age. 

Maybe stuff is different in the US - but that is the story in Australia


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## pixxee84 (Jan 23, 2008)

I had a child at 18, and basically lost my life lol ... This puppy thing is a breeze to me!!!! I didn't get a dog for like three years, seriously. I remember how hard it was taking care of a baby and going full time to college, and I just thought, I can not even possibly hande another responsibility like a puppy. So I "browsed" at Malteses for three years... Lets just say when I finally got mine, I can't believe I didn't get one sooner!!!!!! Potty Training two year old :blink: vs. potty training dog :thumbsup: simple. Have to go run to the store to get something baby= a million things to take with you and consider, not to mention the unexpected vs. dog= put in bag, or put in crate.... simple. 

Hang in there, it is worth it when they stop the things you don't like, you jsut have to be consistent, even though it can be hard. It is all worth it in the end :thumbsup:


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## Luna'sMom (Oct 7, 2007)

Edit: just wanted to add in that puppy school as I understand isn't about training - but more about training the owner ( telling them how to house train and stop problem behavior) and most important about socialization (with other dogs and new people). It isn't about 'training' them to sit, stay, come - that is more Obedience training  


(stupid edit function letting me edit but then not updating my post :smmadder


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## Maxsmom (Aug 5, 2007)

> Josie says: Just put her in a box and send her to my house!!! I'm dying for a little sister.
> 
> Hang in there! The puppy issues slowly get better. On biting...you can yelp loudly and fold your arms against your chest and not look at Sophie for ten or twenty seconds. I did this with Josie and it really helped. I'm not much help in the pottypad area because Josie is outside trained. And Josie still prances away from me at times when she's wound up, so I'm not any help there either. But I'd be more than willing to take that little lovebug off your hands...[/B]


Ollie is biting all the time. His teeth are like needles. I had a bad experience with Max's trainer, but my good friend had a great trainer. She said to say loudly something consistantly, like "Bah" when they exhibit bad behavior. Praise them when they stop. This is working for me and Sweet Ollie. I agree with what you say. 

I do feel your pain with your puppy, I am going through some of those things, not all. I lucked up on a well behaved boy "especially in the potty Dept.". So hang in there. You have to be the dominant one, or she will be. 

I would NEVER strike or cause my sweet boy pain in any way, as I have seen people do. So the "BAH!" works for me. He knows that means he's being naughty.

CM


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## njdrake (Apr 23, 2007)

Zoey has always been a live wire and I wouldn't have her any other way. I actually enjoyed her puppy stage and would do it all over again. What trouble she did get in was usually my fault. She was housebroken in no time because I either took her to work with me or she went to my groomers day care. She did chew up the corner of my love seat in my living room, my fault. She dug a hole in the drywall in my utility room, my fault and her favorite thing was to get all the moss out of the silk trees, her fault  I think puppies will be puppies but what great fun you can have and it's a wonderful time to really bond with them. You have to work with them a lot to get the dog you want but just enjoy them being a puppy. Tess was 13 months old when I got her and she is almost to good and I would much rather see a little more spunk in her. I wish I could have gone through the puppy stage with her too. Just give Sophie a little more time and enjoy it while you can, like kids they grow up way to fast. I'd love to have another puppy.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

LOL...I've never had human kids and Zoe was my first dog let alone my first puppy. I'll admit that I cried the first couple of weeks that I had her. They really are a lot of work. I loved her and would never have even considered taking her back to her breeder, but I did cry a lot. I got her from what I now know to be a byb and had her at 10 weeks. But something really changed when she turned 12 weeks old. It's like she could actually tell I was trying to teach her things. I think when she hit 4 months I really loved the puppy-ness in her. I just wished I hadn't wasted a lot of time and energy worrying so darn much about every little thing and just enjoyed her puppy stage more. I actually kind of miss it. I bet in a year or two you will look back with fond memories and chuckle at them like I do.


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## 3malteseboyz (Feb 6, 2008)

> You just described a normal puppy. The problem is that she is lacking structure, confinement, and positive interaction with you. Puppy class is a great start.
> 
> Bookwise, I would get Karen Pryor's Don't Shoot the Dog and Jean Donaldson's Culture Clash. Culture Clash has a great explanation of how dogs learn and how to address common problems. Its an easy read, too.
> 
> ...


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## 3malteseboyz (Feb 6, 2008)

JMM and other members have given excellent advice. 

Sometimes it will take at least 2 years for the puppy stage to end.

With the training pads maybe you can make the area larger for her to go on. Most dogs do not like to poop and pee in the same area or if the pads are not refreshen often enough. It is common for a pup/dog to sort of walk around on the pads (just like outside) while doing their business causing them to walk off of the pads. Hopefully your little one knows where to go (pad) when she needs to. That's a plus. Be patient with her training. If you see yourself getting upset try not to let it show to her. It will only take longer for her to learn.

There are many books, websites to gain information dealing with the puppy stage. Wishing you and your little one well.


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