# Little Sammy had alot of seizures



## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

Im new here, so hello first of all. I have two maltese, a female Sara 4 yrs old, and a new addition Sammy, soon to be 11 weeks Wednesday. 

Well last Tuesday, right after I took the pic thats my avatar, Sammy (the puppy) started yelping, and wining really loud, I was washing dishes at the time, and ran to see what was going on and he was wet and foamy around the mouth and was on his side paddling, I picked him up and held him, while he kept yelping. I sit him back in his bed and he calmed down, but looked confused and disoriented, and when I reached my habd out to him, he growled at me a few times. Well a few minutes later he runs around and all he does was just wine, then went back to normal. It bothered me, but I though well maybe this or maybe that...

Later that night, he did it again, same thing that happened the first time, I did the same thing over, same results, back to normal after 10-15 mins. 3am the next morning he does it again, and then 7:30 am the same morning. I took him to the vet and the vet suggested we bring him in the next day for labs, and scans, because it was late, and he seemed fine other than being weak from throwing up in the car on the trip to the vet.

Well from the time I got him home, till we took him to the vet at noon the next day, he had seizures all night, and it was the most horrible night I have had. He yelped every hour, had seizures, then some episodes after the seizures, he was so weak we just knew he was gonna die. He acted as if he was hurting, would run around crying and screaming and I felt helpless. He was so weak he couldnt eat or drink, or stand up.

Well the vet did blood work, urinalysis on him, and gave him a shot of phenobarbital, and started him on IV's. I picked him up yesterday because he didnt have anymore seizures, and have to take him back tomorrow for a bild acid test because his blood results show soemthing with his liver and she's concerned with liver shunts.

But the worst part of it, is he's blind. He's running into things and can't see. I'm not sure if its temp. or perm. or a side effect of the phenobarbital or what. I'm afraid for him and not sure what caused the seizures, and I'm figuring the seizures made him go blind...


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I am so, so sorry to hear about your Sammy. I pray the vet can find out what is causing his seizures.

Please contact your breeder asap if you haven't done so already. She need to know what is happening with Sammy and not sell his littermates until the vet finds out what is wrong with Sammy. 

:grouphug: :grouphug:


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

omg how scarey :smcry: I will be praying for him and for you. I'm so sorry :smcry:


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

> I am so, so sorry to hear about your Sammy. I pray the vet can find out what is causing his seizures.
> 
> Please contact your breeder asap if you haven't done so already. She need to know what is happening with Sammy and not sell his littermates until the vet finds out what is wrong with Sammy.
> 
> :grouphug: :grouphug:[/B]



She sold the brother and sister, already, we've only had him 4 weeks today. i have talked to her, and she said if the vet will confirm its congenital and nothing caused on our part, she will take Sammy back and give us a male out of a litter born last week. 

I'm attached to Sammy already and hate to see him leave, but hate to keep him because we will have to pay for surgery if its liver shunts or brain issues...(doctor leaning towards shunts right now due to blood work showing something abnormal with the liver) 

Low blood sugar was ruled out.


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## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

> Im new here, so hello first of all. I have two maltese, a female Sara 4 yrs old, and a new addition Sammy, soon to be 11 weeks Wednesday.
> 
> Well last Tuesday, right after I took the pic thats my avatar, Sammy (the puppy) started yelping, and wining really loud, I was washing dishes at the time, and ran to see what was going on and he was wet and foamy around the mouth and was on his side paddling, I picked him up and held him, while he kept yelping. I sit him back in his bed and he calmed down, but looked confused and disoriented, and when I reached my habd out to him, he growled at me a few times. Well a few minutes later he runs around and all he does was just wine, then went back to normal. It bothered me, but I though well maybe this or maybe that...
> 
> ...


How frightening! I am so sorry for you and your little puppy! Please let us know what you find out.

:grouphug: 
Cyndi


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## cairoluv (Mar 4, 2007)

Hi coalminerswife. I am glad you posted here! I am so sorry about Sammy and what he (and you) are going through right now  . There are a lot of members who have dealt with similar health issues. I hope your vet gives you some reassuring news tomorrow, and I know that the members of this forum will be able to offer you some good information and support along the way.


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## Lennabella (Mar 29, 2007)

I am sooo sorry for poor little Sammy .. I am looking at his picture and I was heartbroken at how he has been suffering .. I pray that he will get better .. I don't know what else to say ... poor baby !!! :grouphug:


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

Omg I am so very sorry to hear this, poor little Sammy and poor you too, what a sad thing to have happen  I hope the vet can diagnose and treat him.
Again I am truly sorry, and I do hope his siblings are ok, but the breeder should contact their owners and get them to have them tested as well.


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I am very sorry that your pup is sick. It sounds very serious and I really hate that you and Sammy are going through this. I don't want to offend you, but if your breeder sold you a puppy 4 weeks ago then I am taking that to mean that Sammy was 7-8 weeks old. It is too young. I would not want any other puppy from this breeder. Poor Sammy.....I feel for him. Maybe the vet will have some encouraging news. If she rules out liver shunt, ask her about GME/NME. I know what it is like to have a young dog with a congenital problem. It isn't easy for anyone.

Also, welcome to SM. I'm sorry that you are coming to us as a stressful time in your life.......


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## Andrea&Luci (Jul 30, 2006)

OMG :bysmilie: How horrible...... I am so sorry this has happened. I hope your vet can get to the bottom of this, as having multiple seizures like that is a very scary situation. I feel so bad for you and for Sammy. I agree with msmagnolia that your baby was given to you much too soon and I pray that the seizures were nothing serious and that your baby will be ok. Welcome to SM...and good luck. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

oh I am so sorry you and Sammy have such a traumatic start . I do think your breeder gave your baby up for adoption too young. I don't have any words of advise as I've never had this type problem. I can't say what I would do ...I know how quickly these little ones can make their way into our hearts. I think I'd likely try to do the best I could for him but don't mean to imply that is what you should do.... each person has to make their own decision in matters such as this.
I pray it can be resolved .


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

how many vaccines has he had...have they ruled out distemper?


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

> how many vaccines has he had...have they ruled out distemper?[/B]



The breeder said she gave him the 5 way shot, she said she orders it. His blood work came back fine other than the abnormalities of the liver, something showed up for that. 

Distemper would have shown in the bloodwork right?


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

no the only way to diagnose distemper is with spinal tap...he needs shots every 3 weeks...has he had his second shot?


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

> no the only way to diagnose distemper is with spinal tap...he needs shots every 3 weeks...has he had his second shot?[/B]


No he hasn't had his 2nd set yet, we were out of town for 10 days for thanksgiving and we were planning on his shots the same week he started his seizures.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

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Was he around any other dogs while you were away? Any immunity he may have had left from nursing his mother can be killed off by those first shot(s). Puppies aren't fully protected until they complete their full round of shots at around four months and should not be around other dogs - no pet stores, grooming salons, puppy classes or play dates.


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

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He's only been around my other maltese and my mothers maltese who have had their shots.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

but we dont know what kind of animal contact he had b4 u got him. hope they figure it out and he is back to being is normal self


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

> but we dont know what kind of animal contact he had b4 u got him. hope they figure it out and he is back to being is normal self[/B]



If he had distemper, wouldn't he get worse till death? He's over the seizures now, other than he seems blind now, sometimes I think he can see, especially when lights go on....is blindness associated with seizures or phenobarbital, is it temp or perm?


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

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its possible there could be fluid on his brain and the pressure is causing the vision loss...depending on the cause will determin if it is temp or permanent. seizures themselves can cause temp blindness but it doesnt last this long.


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

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well the blindness didnt start and was noticed by me when i brought him home yesterday. I dont think they recognized it at the vet because he's in his cage and didnt walk much because he was sleeping so much. When I got home with him, we let him run around some and began noticing that he couldnt see, because he walked into things.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

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its possible there could be fluid on his brain and the pressure is causing the vision loss...depending on the cause will determin if it is temp or permanent. seizures themselves can cause temp blindness but it doesnt last this long.
[/B][/QUOTE]

well the blindness didnt start and was noticed by me when i brought him home yesterday. I dont think they recognized it at the vet because he's in his cage and didnt walk much because he was sleeping so much. When I got home with him, we let him run around some and began noticing that he couldnt see, because he walked into things.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Lady is an epileptic. After a seizure they can be temporarily blind and disoriented, but it goes away as soon as they recover from the seizure. 

Did your vet just start him on phenobarbital? That can make them pretty dopey until their body adjusts to it. That could possibly explain why he is walking into things.


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## KAG (Jun 1, 2006)

If God forbid it is GME, there are 3 forms of it. Localized, which affects a certain part of the brain. Diffused, which affects the brain and spinal cord. Ocular, which causes blindness. 

I'm so sorry, and, I'm not trying to frighten you. You just might want as much info as possible. Nothing would make me happier than baby Sammy being seizure free. 

GME is diagnosed with an MRI and spinal tap. This sounds ridiculous to say, but, if it was per chance ocular, it's the best one to treat. 

I'm praying for you both that all goes well.


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

They only gave him a shot of the phenobarbital when he was seizuring, they havent given him any since then.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

I am so very sorry to read about what little Sammy is going through. I sure hope the cause is found and he can be cured. It is so sad to read about a puppy so young having such a hard time.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

oh gosh. i'm so sorry. i hope he can be diagnosed and his ailment soon alleviated. poor little guy....

if i were you i would look into what dr. jaimie has suggested, a spinal tap, to rule out distemper. she is a vet and her opinion on this site is invaluable.

massimo is epileptic as well, and has been on phenobarbital for quite a while (years). the only time he has temp. blindness is when he is in recovery from a seizure. it lasts only minutes and it resolves as soon as he's fully recovered from the seizure. and he had that symptom long before he was put on phb.

please keep us updated. :grouphug:


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

> If God forbid it is GME, there are 3 forms of it. Localized, which affects a certain part of the brain. Diffused, which affects the brain and spinal cord. Ocular, which causes blindness.
> 
> I'm so sorry, and, I'm not trying to frighten you. You just might want as much info as possible. Nothing would make me happier than baby Sammy being seizure free.
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Is this congenitial? The breeder has said that if I can get a statement from the vet saying so, then she will take Sammy back and give me a puppy from the new liter. If I get a new puppy, I'm taking it instantly to get checked out.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

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Unfortunately, there are no genetic markers for GME, epilepsy and a number of other conditions Maltese puppies may inherit. It's a good idea to get a bile acids done before the puppy even leaves the breeder, ideally at about sixteen weeks.

The best way to make sure you get a healthy puppy is to buy one from a reputable breeder who screens her parents for genetic disorders before breeding them and does health testing - liver, knees, etc. I doubt your breeder did this because a reputable breeder also will not let a puppy go until it is *at least* twelve weeks old.

If it turns out your puppy does have a genetic illness, I would not get another puppy from this woman. In many cases it takes years for "genetic timb bombs" to go off and when they do, the vet bills can be huge and ongoing. I'd insist on a refund and get a puppy from a reputable breeder so you don't have to go through this heartbreak again.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> Is this congenitial? The breeder has said that if I can get a statement from the vet saying so, then she will take Sammy back and give me a puppy from the new liter. If I get a new puppy, I'm taking it instantly to get checked out.[/B]


if you decide to return the puppy, i would insist on a full refund, but i would not get another pup from that breeder. 
i would find a decent, reputable breeder who knows their lines what they are doing...


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

OK we are back from the bile acid test, but won't know results for a day or two. The vet checked Sammy and his eyes, and said something like his pupils dialiated with the light and they seemed responsive. She said he could be epileptic or have some problems with his brain. If his bile acid test come back normal, then he would need brain scans. Honeslty, I can't keep paying out vet bills to find out whats wrong with him..and the breeder isn't to willing unless the vet tells her its genetic or congenitial...or something other than my negligence. 

Is it possible the dog could get his vision back?


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

Poor Sammy. I feel so bad for him


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

epilespy in a puppy this young is extremely unlikely...most common causes of seizures in a puppy this young that are not related to blood sugar are congenital, infectious, inflammatory, and rare but more common than epilepsy..cancer) congenital would be liver shunt, hydrocephalus, or some other brain malformation. infectious would be for example distemper, parasite migration, or a bacterial meningitis/encephalitis, and inflammatory would be a type of encephalitis like NME/GME.


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## honeybun (Mar 6, 2007)

Iam sorry to hear about sammy I know that GME is very similar to liver shunt screaming blindness and seizures circling head pressing and turning the body around to walk like a crab


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## gibbert (Jan 13, 2005)

I am so very sorry to hear about sweet little Sammy. I pray that the vets can figure out what is going on with his health. Poor little fella - what an awful ordeal to go through, especially being so very young! This is heart-breaking.


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

I am so very sorry to hear about your little Sammy, I hope you can get to the bottom of it very soon and its nothing serious or long-term. You are in the right place, at Spoiled Maltese, to get a lot of good information from very knowledgeable maltese owners. If the problem is with his liver, the latese testing information is located here:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...mp;hl=bile+acid

Your vet may not be aware of these tests or this protocol, but he/she can contact Dr. Sharon Center at Cornell. If this is the problem, several of us, including Dr. Jaime, can guide you through the testing to minimize your costs. 

I hope that helps for now. I'll be keeping you and Sammy in my thoughts and prayers in the meantime.


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## KAG (Jun 1, 2006)

> OK we are back from the bile acid test, but won't know results for a day or two. The vet checked Sammy and his eyes, and said something like his pupils dialiated with the light and they seemed responsive. She said he could be epileptic or have some problems with his brain. If his bile acid test come back normal, then he would need brain scans. Honeslty, I can't keep paying out vet bills to find out whats wrong with him..and the breeder isn't to willing unless the vet tells her its genetic or congenitial...or something other than my negligence.
> 
> Is it possible the dog could get his vision back?[/B]



Your negligence? The breeder really said that? How dare she. Negligence is taking a baby away from his/her mother and siblings earlier than 12 weeks, especially these little ones.
Hang in there.


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

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Well I told her that today, about letting her puppies go to soon, and she said if her puppies are moving around and eating on their own at 6 weeks she will let them go at 6 weeks, he was almost 7 weeks old when I got him.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

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Here's some great information about why a Maltese puppy should be at least twelve weeks old before leaving its mother:

http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/12weekrule.htm

The American Maltese Association also states that breeders should keep their puppies until at least twelve weeks of age.

http://www.americanmaltese.org/ama_club_code_of_ethics.htm

Unfortunately, you have learned the hard way why it is so important to get a Maltese puppy from a reputable breeder. Heartbreak and big vet bills are a terrible lway to learn a esson.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

BTW, if your pup does recover, don't worry if he's blind! Blind dogs can get around and play and be great companions.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

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That is really a typical response from a BYB. That is almost a hallmark of a BYB.... thinking just because they can eat on their own at 6 weeks that they are ready to go. Let's face it, when they are breeding for nothing more than the money the little pups can bring in, they like to let them go as soon as they can, so their care won't eat in to the profit. :angry: 

I am so very sorry for what little Sammy is going through. I know this must be so hard on you, too. AND don't beat yourself up about buying from a BYB. I bet almost all of us have done the same thing. That's the beauty of this forum. We have all learned so much and as they say, "knowledge is power". You can bet that not many of us will buy from BYB the next time.


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

rayer: rayer: Sending prayers for your baby rayer: rayer: 

cathy


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## Andrea&Luci (Jul 30, 2006)

:bysmilie: :bysmilie: :bysmilie: 
This is so sad.... I can't believe that the breeder was so ignorant about letting those babies go at such a young age.. This is a terrible situation and I pray rayer: rayer: that Sammy will be ok through this. :grouphug:


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

The others have given good info so I will just say I am sorry that your sweet baby is ill and I pray that all will turn out well for him. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

Well its been 3 days now since we've had Sammy home, his vision at times is questionable to me. He's not running into things like he was, but he still doesnt seem to know his way around much, even when we try to call him, he goes the opposite direction or ignores us. He seems to be able to see shadows and light. but he doesnt follow me when I call him like he did before the seizures. All h e does now, is runs around whining, and roaming the house. Its like he's lost or confused. He eats well and potties well, but he doesnt seem normal anymore.


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## paris'mom (Jul 14, 2004)

Welcome - I'm glad you have found this site as it holds a wealth of experience and information. 

DO NOT TAKE ANOTHER PUP FROM THIS SO-CALLED BREEDER. I can tell from your statements already that this person is ignorant and driven by greed. If this breeder was a responsible breeder (which obviously not) he/she would not continue to breed the same dogs that have produced an ill pup or be at least more concerned and participate with testing until you found out why Sammy is ill. I like how she said she would take Sammy back and give you another male. If you take that then be ready for more heartache. I just want to slap he/she that said 'if the puppys are moving at 6 weeks...let them go at...' What ignorance!!!!

So what do you plan to do if the breeder won't refund your money and is insistent on giving you another pup from their "production line"? My suggestion - keep Sammy as he is innocent in all this mess. If you cannot afford the medical attention he may require for the rest of his life - contact a Maltese rescue agency. However, do not take the second pup from this person because that other pup is a ticking time bomb. Spare yourself of the coming pain and either take the breeder to small claims court for refund, or chalk this experience up to just that -- experience and educate anyone you cross about this breeder and the dangers and cruelty of PUPPY MILLS / Backyard Breeders. Doesn't most states have a Puppy Lemon Law??? Check yours out to see if you are offered any protection within. 

I don't know about your first Maltese and where you got him/her from - but if you haven't had any problems then you are lucky...but why leave something like a life-long journey with another LIFE to chance or luck? Research, research, research. 

Also is this Vet the one the "breeder" referred you to or is he/she a regular vet that you have known and trusted? I am a little alarmed that if Sammy was blind, they didn't find it. I know when I took both of my Maltese to their checkup or any visit, they check their eyes...

I pray that Sammy recovers because this is sooo sad.


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

> Welcome - I'm glad you have found this site as it holds a wealth of experience and information.
> 
> DO NOT TAKE ANOTHER PUP FROM THIS SO-CALLED BREEDER. I can tell from your statements already that this person is ignorant and driven by greed. If this breeder was a responsible breeder (which obviously not) he/she would not continue to breed the same dogs that have produced an ill pup or be at least more concerned and participate with testing until you found out why Sammy is ill. I like how she said she would take Sammy back and give you another male. If you take that then be ready for more heartache. I just want to slap he/she that said 'if the puppys are moving at 6 weeks...let them go at...' What ignorance!!!!
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> ...


After I picked him up for his stay for 2 nights at the vet, he was still weak and didnt move around alot, so when he started moving around more, we noticed him running into things. Now he doesnt run into things but he doesnt look at you, nor does he play with you, or come to you when you call him, he runs around whining now, and eats and sleeps. He runs all over the house whining like he's looking for something or is lost, until he tires himself out and finds a corner or his blanket and lays down to sleep, then he gets back up and does the same thing over now.

The vet checked his eyes yesterday and said that his pupils and dialation seems good with the light, so she's not sure if its something to do with his brain. She would have to do a brain scan. I'm not sure if the seizures have caused his condition now, or this is just another side effect of maybe a possible brain problem. 

I live in the coal fields of WV, so we dont have access to big city universities or big animal hospitials. The breeder suggested I take him to her vet, but thats an additional hour drive from the vet I take him to. And when I tell the breeder the things my vet says, then she seems to have excuses like the vet don't know what she's talking about, and then she calls her vet and tells them what my vet said, and then calls me back and says well "my vet said this" and it be totally opposite of what my vet said.

I'm going to check on the WV puppy lemon laws and see what I find out.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I checked and unfortunately West Virginia doesn't have puppy lemon laws.


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## paris'mom (Jul 14, 2004)

UGH that figures. I've been trying to google this for her as well but came up with nothing - and wouldn't you know it. WV is one of the worst Puppymill states. I'm so upset/sad for Sammy.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

> UGH that figures. I've been trying to google this for her as well but came up with nothing - and wouldn't you know it. WV is one of the worst Puppymill states. I'm so upset/sad for Sammy.[/B]


What a terrible thing. I've been reading this for the last couple of days, but I am speechless, sad and angry. Poor little baby Sammy. I know this sort of "breeding" operation goes on, but seeing it close up is so sickening. I would like to strangle this so called breeder and all the rest like her. A 6 wk. old toy dog of any breed is not going to thrive physically or mentally when not with it's mother. The poor thing obviously has something lethal going on. I once bought a Sheltie puppy who started having seizures immediately and it was a parasite that infected it's brain. Something picked up from bird droppings. That was about 30 yrs. ago and my vet at that time said there was nothing he could do but put her to sleep. I think once something like that is in the brain that is it. The other possibilities like GME/NME aren't any better. 
I'm feel so badly for the new owner, it is a hard, sad lesson and even worse for the puppy. :smcry:


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

Well his blood results showed no liver shunts...the vet said she thinks he's possible epilepsy or something with the brain, being his problems are occuring at such a young age.

I talked to the breeder and told her I didnt want another puppy from her.....and I'm seeking and looking into getting WV to pass lemon laws for animals. I'm also going to write a a column in the local paper where she lives informing folks of buying toy breed animals at such a young age. My eyes have been opened in this situation and I have done alot of reading and learning on the internet.


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## KAG (Jun 1, 2006)

Good for you, Coal Miner's Wife. I commend you. How's Sammy today? Will he be on any medications?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Hopefully this is a single-incident for him. Do give him some time to heal and adjust. You'd be amazed at what little puppy brains can do...they can adjust and live happy lives from the oddest of situations. Have you considered deafness may be a part of his inattention? Be sure you use touch to get his attention. We also wound stamp on the floor and the dog could feel that. Keep all of the things in his environment (furniture, etc.) in the same place so he can get his surroundings.


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

> Good for you, Coal Miner's Wife. I commend you. How's Sammy today? Will he be on any medications?[/B]



She said to start him on the phenobarbital that she gave me. He runs around now and all he does in whines and acts restless and lost. He's not playful at all, and if you pick him up or mess with him, he will squirm and try to get out of your arms. Is the call the vet made a good one, is this syptoms of epilepsy? Will the phenobarbital work and bring him back to normal? Will he even be back to normal?


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## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

> Well his blood results showed no liver shunts...the vet said she thinks he's possible epilepsy or something with the brain, being his problems are occuring at such a young age.
> 
> I talked to the breeder and told her I didnt want another puppy from her.....and I'm seeking and looking into getting WV to pass lemon laws for animals. I'm also going to write a a column in the local paper where she lives informing folks of buying toy breed animals at such a young age. My eyes have been opened in this situation and I have done alot of reading and learning on the internet.[/B]


Good for you to try to make something positive come from this sad, sad experience. I was not knowledgable about the breeding business of toy dogs either, prior to this one (and joining this forum). I bought a Yorkie from a pet store back when I was 20! He only lived about 9 years and had various skin problems (which brought about great odors!), but overall a good pet. The first Maltese I bought was from a lady in Memphis that had one breeding female and one male, with the one new litter and one pup they kept from her previous litter (about a year old or less) . She was almost a BYB, except they all just lived in her house and they were her pets. She let him go to me at 7 or 8 weeks. He was so tiny! That puppy, Casper, was a good pet and lived to be nearly 14 1/2 years of age. He passed away this past February. After that I did a lot more research into breeders and finally turned to my vet for a recommendation, having come upon a LOT of breeders that did not seem very reputable to me. I have a very good pet in Midis, who seems very healthy and just turned one year old last week.

Again, I am so very sorry for all you and Sammy are going through. Just wanted you to know you weren't the only one, and certainly won't be the last, who went into this with a big heart, good intentions but little experience and knowledge about the shady side of breeders. I've been there, too, just was a little luckier that you have been. 

*hugs*
Cyndi


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

> Hopefully this is a single-incident for him. Do give him some time to heal and adjust. You'd be amazed at what little puppy brains can do...they can adjust and live happy lives from the oddest of situations. Have you considered deafness may be a part of his inattention? Be sure you use touch to get his attention. We also wound stamp on the floor and the dog could feel that. Keep all of the things in his environment (furniture, etc.) in the same place so he can get his surroundings.[/B]



I know this may be and hopefully would be a single incident for Sammy, but the breeder is willing now to give me my money back if I choose so. So do I keep him and choke up the lose, and hope things turn ok for him, or things turn to the worse and he has more trouble and it leads to him having brains trouble.

The vet did say it was odd for his epilepsy symptoms to show so early at his age.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

i'm not vet, but this does not sound like epilepsy. massimo is epileptic and i've done a lot of research on the subject, and what you're describing doesn't seem to fit. especially at his age. to me it sounds like something neurological.... and/or like jackie said, maybe he's gone deaf and is confused. i'm so very sorry you're going though this... but to spare you any more heartache, i would not accept any other pups in exchange for little sammy. if you are unable to financially maintain him, i would contact a maltese rescue organization to care for him. 

again, i'm sorry....


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> I know this may be and hopefully would be a single incident for Sammy, but the breeder is willing now to give me my money back if I choose so. So do I keep him and choke up the lose, and hope things turn ok for him, or things turn to the worse and he has more trouble and it leads to him having brains trouble.
> 
> The vet did say it was odd for his epilepsy symptoms to show so early at his age.[/B]


Read back to Dr. Jaimie's post about the likelihood of epilepsy at this age (not likely). 

Keeping a special-needs, expensive pup is a personal choice. If he does well, he'll need medication and special attention for the rest of his life. There are no guarantees that he will not have another episode or other problems (for some reason, when there is 1 problem there are usually more). You should expect that he will have significant vet bills. Not every family is well-equiped to take on the financial, emotional, or time requirements this may entail. The most important thing is to be honest with yourself. "Feeling bad" and keeping him for the wrong reason is not going to put you or him in a good situation. Write down a list of pro's and con's, give yourself a day or two, and then review everything and decide. 

Don't forget to also consider his quality of life. If he adjusts well, it may be excellent. If, with time, he does not improve and does not seem happy and comfortable, discuss this with your vet. 

Returning him likely means he will be euthanized. Placing him with a rescue would be the other option, HOWEVER, I doubt many would take on his problems...discuss with them the specifics before releasing him just to end up euthanized.


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## KAG (Jun 1, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=480258
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wonder if Sammy hurt himself while he seized, like thrashing around, or maybe he bit his tongue? I believe the phenobarb will help control seizures, but sometimes potassium bromide is also used. Sammy is so young, I don't know what the protocol is. I'm sure the phenobarb will make him woozy, hungry, and thirsty. I wish you could speak to a neurologist.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Again, as Carrie, JMM, Dr. Jaimie and I have all said, it would be very, very unusual for a puppy his age to have epilepsy. Also, epileptics like my Lady and Carrie's Mass are normal in between seizures.

This is from the canine epilepsy website:

Under each age category (the age when seizures first occurred), the possible causes (etiology) are approximately listed as the most likely first and the least likely cause last.

LESS THAN 1 YEAR OF AGE

Anomaly: hydrocephalus.

Inflammatory:
Infectious - Viral: canine distemper; parasitic; bacterial; fungal
Immune mediated

Metabolic:
Hepatic - portosystemic shunt; Autoimmune thyroiditis (early stage: TgAA 
positive); Hypoglycemia; Electrolyte disorders

Toxic: Single or combination vaccines; Lead; Drug related; Other exposures

Trauma: Acute; Delayed

Degenerative: Storage disorders

Primary: Idiopathic Epilepsy ("idiopathic" = cause unknown or undetermined)

Phenobarbital is very hard on the liver. Even with true adult epileptics, vets are hesitant to start treatment unless it is necessary. 

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels...enobarbital.htm

Usually the amount of phenobarbital is reduced as much as possible by adding other medications. Potassium bromide is a popular one, but it is expensive. I just refilled Lady's prescription and it was $48. 

If he stays on seizure medications, the levels of drugs in his system will have to be monitored regularly. Lady just got bloodwork done today and her potassium bromide levels checked. That test alone was $120. 

If you decide to keep him, I would not accept a diagnosis of epilepsy. He needs to be evaluated by a a neurologist.


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

Is this congenitial? The breeder has said that if I can get a statement from the vet saying so, then she will take Sammy back and give me a puppy from the new liter. If I get a new puppy, I'm taking it instantly to get checked out.


:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: 
The breeder should take this puppy back. She shouldn't be putting you through what you are going through. Give her your veterinarians phone number and have her call and verify that this is truly happening. Or photo copy the vet statements and e-mail them to her. This is not something a breeder should back out on. I am assuming that the puppy is approximately 16 weeks old????? A good breeder would want this puppy back so that they can determine the cause and know how to proceed with their breeding program. I am surprised that she isn't making arrangements to get the puppy back with her. JMO as a breeder. Having your puppy "checked out" when you got it would not have made a difference in what is happening now. There isn't any foresight to this type of medical issues. You deal with them as they crop up. 
Tina


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## Ptarana (Jul 12, 2006)

Your little puppy is behaving just like my little Chelsey did. She was 2yrs old but from a very young age she had seizures, would get very restless and confused then suddlenly went completely blind. They put her on steroids (prediszone ) she regained her sight back in 2 days. They believed she had GME in the brain on her oclure . She would then have good days then bad days. This went on for 4 months then she finally collasped and we had her put down. ( she was the love of our lives). I know the only true way to find out if it`s GME is with a MRI.
Only 1% of dogs GME goes into remission. It`s almost always fatal. And they have found it is mostly females that get it. I know this is not good and I pray thats not what your baby has. I also lived in WVA. I know they are not up to date with all the new tech. And I am very doubtful that many vets there are even aware of anything like GME. You need to ask them about it. Also you can do a research online about GME there is great information on it. I know everyone is different but myself I could never return a pup like that to the breeder. Of course they would have it put down or maybe try to resell her to some other poor soul. I would ask the vet about putting the pup on Prediszone. And see how it works. I am very sorry this has happened to you cause I believe you have some very tough decisions to make. My heart goes out to you and your little baby. Will keep you in my prayers.


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

> Is this congenitial? The breeder has said that if I can get a statement from the vet saying so, then she will take Sammy back and give me a puppy from the new liter. If I get a new puppy, I'm taking it instantly to get checked out.
> 
> 
> :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:
> ...



The puppy is 11 weeks old today...her excuse is she's never had any trouble with any of her puppies, and that from now on she's only doing a 48 hour health guarntee for her puppies, they have 48 hours to get them to the vet and checked out. My vet was supposed to call her last night.


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## cairoluv (Mar 4, 2007)

[/QUOTE]The puppy is 11 weeks old today...her excuse is she's never had any trouble with any of her puppies, and that from now on she's only doing a 48 hour health guarntee for her puppies, they have 48 hours to get them to the vet and checked out. My vet was supposed to call her last night.
[/QUOTE]

Wow - my breeder gave us 7 days to determine if there were health problems, and 30 days to make sure that we were happy with the puppies (and that they were happy with us!). If she had kept Sammy for the full 12 weeks, she would have been the one dealing with the health issues now. I adopted my boys at 18 weeks, and even then I was worried because they were so little! I can't even imagine taking responsibility for one that is less than half that age. :shocked: 

It took me 2 years to find the person we adopted our Sam and Cairo from and to make sure this was the right breed for us. It was well worth the effort! I traveled almost 8 hours round trip to get them, so if you decide to adopt another malty, don't let distance hinder you from finding an ethical breeder and the right pup. I truly hope that Sammy gets better - every time I look at his pic, I want to add him to our crew (a hazzard of falling for these guys is that you keep wanting more :wub: ). 

I wish you luck and hope that you are able to get restitution from the horrible breeder. I also hope you see improvement in Sammy's health. :grouphug:


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

The vet called to check on Sammy this morning, and she said she thinks its a brain defect. But we dont have the technology here to do brain scans. I would have to take him to VA Tech or Ohio State in order to do a brain scan, both several hours away, then the price of the brain scan.

He's still running around, acting lost all the time. I don't think his vision is good at distances, but when he's up close he sees you. I can whistle for him and if I'm a few feet from him, he will look for me, and then try to follow my sound, then when he gets up close, he can see you.


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I'm so sorry that things aren't going well for Sammy. I continue to watch the thread for updates. I've been where you are with an 18 month old puppy and it isn't easy - not by a long shot!


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

OK, Sammy seems like he's back to normal (fingers and toes crossed). He was running and playing like he did before the seizures, but he does whine alot...is that normal for a young pup? If he's around another animal or one of us, he doesnt whine, only when he gets alone. I'm hoping it was just a fluke and it won't happen again.

If he had feel and maybe hit his head kinda hard, would that explain maybe his seizures etc? My husband was taking him out the other night (before the seizures) and he was so excited, he jump out of my husbands hands, I'm thinking he may have hit his head some how. (I'm hoping that this was the case, instead of brain problems)


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> OK, Sammy seems like he's back to normal (fingers and toes crossed). He was running and playing like he did before the seizures, but he does whine alot...is that normal for a young pup? If he's around another animal or one of us, he doesnt whine, only when he gets alone. I'm hoping it was just a fluke and it won't happen again.
> 
> If he had feel and maybe hit his head kinda hard, would that explain maybe his seizures etc? My husband was taking him out the other night (before the seizures) and he was so excited, he jump out of my husbands hands, I'm thinking he may have hit his head some how. (I'm hoping that this was the case, instead of brain problems)[/B]


Of course his fall could explain his seizures. If you notice "trauma" was on the list of possible causes of seizures I posted for you before. You never told us he'd been dropped. I hope you told your vet about his fall. That information changes everything.


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## coalminerswife (Dec 3, 2007)

Well he actually wasnt dropped, my husband went to set him down, and about a couple feet off the ground, he leaped out of my husbands hands, onto the grass, so I never thought much about it, and he didnt act stunned or anything....so thats why I never said anything or really thought anything about it. 

But he seems to be doing so good now, I guess I'm looking for hope that this may have been some kinda one time incident, and looking for something else to blame other than maybe him having a brain defect, like the vet said. 

He's always been a whining dog, also when we would call for him, he would look confusingly for us, like he couldnt find us until he got up close to us. He's done this since we've had him. 

I'm hoping that this never happens again. We take good care of our dogs, we baby them and pamper them, so don't mistake me when I said the pup leaped out of my husbands hands. The dog is real figgity and I'm hoping that if he did bump his head somewhat when he leaped out of his arms, that maybe thats the case, and not a brain defect. I asked my husband if he got hurt again today to make sure, and he told me, he didn't think he even hit his head at all, he just landed on his front two feet and kind went side ways and then took off after our other maltese to play.


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