# Presidential Debates



## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

Who do you think is winning the debates? I think Kerry won the first, and President Bush had the edge on the second. I'm curious to find out what others think...I'm not looking to get into Kerry or Bush bashing...just who do you think is the better debater (or is it debator)?

BTW, I am supporting Kerry, but I am a republican and I voted for Bush over Gore.


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

Bush can't speak English and he repeats the same things over and over again.

I support Kerry and can't even FATHOM how much gas will cost if Bush stays in office, or how much our debt will increase.

But, I think I stated my opinion in my other post. I know someone who, when Regan was running, was such a hard-core Republican, spent $25,000 a plate to go to the campaign dinner. That person and her brother, who also spent the same amount of money to go, are both voting for Kerry because they are, like me, disgusted with Bush.

~Elegant


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## mylittlebella (Aug 20, 2004)

> _Originally posted by saltymalty_@Oct 9 2004, 03:06 PM
> *Who do you think is winning the debates?  I think Kerry won the first, and President Bush had the edge on the second.  I'm curious to find out what others think...I'm not looking to get into Kerry or Bush bashing...just who do you think is the better debater (or is it debator)?
> 
> BTW, I am supporting Kerry, but I am a republican and I voted for Bush over Gore.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=11603*


[/QUOTE]

This is exactly like me. I do think Kerry won the first but the President was more agressive the sencond time around. I will vote for Kerry and I'm also a republican that voted for Bush over Gore.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

i still am undecided...i agree with parts of both and i feel they both repeat a lot of the same things over and over. i didnt vote for gore or bush last election...i voted for the tree hugger nader just so he could try to get his 3% to start a green committee, but that didnt happen. i hope the last debate will help me decide.


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

im not an american citizen so i cant vote <_<


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## Snertsmom (Jul 18, 2004)

I definitely think Bush won the second debate. And I am still sticking with him as are many other Americans that can't believe Kerry's "Flip Flop Platform". 
He is such a liar. 
And, wait to see the taxes increase and all of the government programs he will initiate. 
I recieved an email stating that Kerry has ALL of these homes in different countries and we as taxpayers will have to provide secret service to each and every place at our expense. That is ridiclous too. 
Bush was at the helm before and after the attacks on the World Trade Center and he promised that he would hunt down the Terrorists that orchestrated this terrible attrocity against America. Our friends and family will proudly back him all the way.


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

Can someone please explain the so-called "flip-flop" to me? I would truly appreciate it.

Oh, and Bush in no way lied about WMD...and he has no vested interest in the oil? Geez, I just love paying $2.50 here in CA for a gallon of gas while "W" is living high on the hog taking one month of vacation for every month he pretends to work.

I can't wait to pay $5.00 a gallon for gas if Bush becomes president...









~Elegant


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

its $2.65 a gallon here in Pasadena ... its going higher and higher everyday nowadays...


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

Ugh...Bush is a ........... (I think I will just let it go!)









Does anybody else remember when it used to be under $2.00? I DON'T!!!

~Elegant


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## Snertsmom (Jul 18, 2004)

I can REMEMBER (ho ho ho) when it was 25cents a gallon...does that tell you all anything?


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

Maybe this is a stupid question---don't bash me if it is....







I am NOT real "learned" on how it all works, but...Bush and Cheney BOTH have interest in oil...







I knew Bush did, but a friend told me yesterday that Cheney did too....could this be part of our gas hikes? Are they getting richer as we pay for the gas we HAVE to buy to get to work etc?

But, I did also hear on the news, that part of the recent hike in gas prices was due to the hurricanes-we couldn't get it shipped here or something like that b/c of all the bad weather. 

I agree that the price is outrageous! I won't tell how much ours is, because it is less than ya'll because we are small and rural....







BUT-it is close to ya'll-and our cost of living all around is probably less....especially after hearing some of your vet costs!  
Luckily, I can fill my "mommy-mobile" up and go for at least two weeks on it, depending on how many grocery trips etc. Emily's pre-school, Mitchell's school, and my school-are all less than a mile from my house. I go up to the church several times a week-that is about 5 miles away-the groceries in town are about 5 miles away-if I go to Walmart, it is about 12 miles away....I can really make a tank of gas last!
But, hubby on the other hand drives over 100 miles round trip a day-and often goes out of town 3 or more hours away 2-4 times a month. His gas KILLS us! He also drives an older SUV-which guzzles the gas, but it is paid off...and still runs...so we are sticking with it for now. In January, he is going to start driving the "mommy-mobile" to work, and I am going to drive the Explorer. It has 160,000+ miles on it, and we don't know how many more 100+ miles a day it can do.


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn_@Oct 10 2004, 12:11 PM
> *Maybe this is a stupid question---don't bash me if it is....
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Yes.









~Elegant


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

its finally almost $3 for gallon here in Pasadena..its $2.80.... h34r: so crazy


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## mylittlebella (Aug 20, 2004)

$2.80 a gallon...THAT'S CRAZY. I can't believe how high gas is. In Miami the cheapest gas is about $2.03 and I'm freaking out about it but $2.80...that's out of control


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

$1.89 here....
I would have to be riding my bike or walking!!!


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

Gas here in NJ is running around $1.87 a gallon. I drive a mommy-mobile SUV that has a 40 gallon tank....ouch! I love it for getting around in the snow and rain, but the gas really is hard to take. To put it into perspective, my very first car was a 1968 Karmann Ghia (I hope I spelled it right) that my father had painted red (at Earl Schibe) and my mom had sewn a lining for the convertible...anyway, I could fill the tank on $3 worth of gas. How times change and how I wish I still had that car.


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## Snertsmom (Jul 18, 2004)

OPEC controls the prices of oil.
Not Bush or Cheney. In fact, if a person stops to think about it...if Bush and Cheney had any control over the oil prices, they would lower them to insure the election.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Snertsmom_@Oct 27 2004, 11:16 PM
> *OPEC controls the prices of oil.
> Not Bush or Cheney. In fact, if a person stops to think about it...if Bush and Cheney had any control over the oil prices, they would lower them to insure the election.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=13577*


[/QUOTE]
good point!


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Snertsmom_@Oct 27 2004, 08:16 PM
> *OPEC controls the prices of oil.
> Not Bush or Cheney. In fact, if a person stops to think about it...if Bush and Cheney had any control over the oil prices, they would lower them to insure the election.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=13577*


[/QUOTE]
Bush is involved, corporately, with oil.
Bush knows he is going to lose, and he's getting fatter and fatter off of our money.
In CA, we are insanely pissed that we now have to spend $2.65 a gallon on gas. We have refineries here, 15 miles away from where I live, and I still have to pay higher than what most of you pay...WHY????? I would like someone to explain that to me.









~Elegant


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

I just wanted to point out that OPEC controls crude oil prices. Refined products like gasoline and home heating fuel are certainly dependent on the price of crude oil, but the price you pay for gas at the pumps is determined by the gasoline distributor (like Exxon, Shell, Mobil etc.) While the price of gas seems to go up daily, the "lag time" from well to refinery is a longer than the price fluxuation would lead you to believe. Kind of like when a jeweller increases his price for gold necklaces that he purchased 2 weeks ago based on the price of gold today. The jeweller knows that he needs to pay for that increase today to be able to afford the next increase tomorrow. I know that I am over simplifying things here, but there are a few things the administration could do to bring down the world price of crude. One would be to cut demand of foreign crude by releasing some of the strategic petroleum reserve. Another would be to impose curbs on usage like imposing higher fees on gas guzzlers. The list goes on. I do believe that the Bush family has close ties to the Saudi Royal Family and I also believe that relationship is wrongly influencing our policy in Iraq and with respect to world oil. That's my opinion, and I will step down from my soap box (or should I say gas pump) now. I hope I didn't offend anyone, because I think you are all wonderful despite our political differences or similarities! We are all maltese lovers afterall!


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

Interesting... ^_^ 

~Elegant


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I am fairly liberal. My husband is Republican through and through. We earn a pretty good amount of money. We hate that Edwards made his millions on big ticket lawsuits (my husband is an oral surgeon). I am voting for Kerry. I traveled in the UK this summer for 2.5 weeks and my 2 daughters stayed another 5 weeks after I came home. They were in Spain, Italy, Germany and Austria. People in Europe don't hate us, but they detest Bush. We had barely gotten off the plane in London that our Limo driver was ragging on about how Bush was bringing Blair down, etc. Everyone should vote their conscience but I would vote for Nader before I'd support Bush/Cheney. We have GOT to improve our standing in the world.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole_@Oct 28 2004, 10:35 PM
> *I'm not one for these political debates, and I respect everyone's opinion, however, I have to say this...Did anyone see that documentary Fahrenheit 9/11?  I was sick to my stomach while I was watching it.  I was honestly going to vote for Bush, but now--NO WAY!  While it was out in theaters, I completely detested the fact that anyone would do such a thing to our president, I was horrified that anyone would go see it and deface the leader of our country.
> 
> Well, on a complete fluke, my husband's co-worker gave it to him to watch.  So we sat down one Friday night to watch it.  I was completely sickened.  What horrified me most was the fact that the information in the documentary was completely true; not theories and there was evidence to back it up.  I cannot believe what the Bush family has done to our country to protect their money!  I was so upset that I lent the DVD to my parents to watch (they too were going to vote Bush).  Let me say this too, it takes A LOT to change the opinion of my dad and after seeing that he said no way would he ever lend his vote to Bush--that is saying a lot coming from my dad.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Because I am STILL somewhat undecided...but starting to lean in one direction...a friend of mine who is a HUGE Kerry supporter told me I needed to watch that movie this weekend. I am already leaning in that direction...she told me that would finalize it for me...My problem is that I really don't support/agree with either one of them...what good is going to do to vote Nader except to prove a point that I don't want either one of the others?! So, anyway...will be glad when it is all over next week and we must learn to live with whatever is decided for the next four years. <_<


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## nataliecmu (Aug 12, 2004)

Okay, so as I said before I have a pretty strong *opinion* when it comes to politics... I really consider myself and independent there is no way I would vote strickly party/one issue... this being the case when I saw F 9/11 I was also sickened..but because Micheal Moore is a discusting slob who throws around tid bits of information as "facts." Did you know some of those things said were taken from a number or different events/topics. Editing is a magical thing...

Also... watch Bowling for Columbine... that movie was also disturbing... I'm sorry to say he is also from Michigan, and I think he really dragged Flint through the gutter... he is a highly opinionated man (which I have no problem with) but don't state anything as a fact unless you are IN our government and signing a bill... 

I don't think it is fair to judge a campaign from one film (and that's what it was, a film). If that is the case you should watch one on the opposing side... that way you are giving it a fair shake.  Just my opinion!

Alright!







And I'm done...DARN THIS TOPIC!!!


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

I have a hard time keeping my eyes off all these wonderful posts...it's kind of like a train wreck...you cannot help but look. I think that everyone has made such valid points on why to vote for their candidate. I guess I'd like to stress to everyone...especially young women...how important it is to vote. If we each get 5 women to the polls on election day...well imagine the impact that would have. Let our voices be heard. I don't care which candidate you are supporting, I just want to support your right to vote. Let's do it together.


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

Well said Saltymalty! Come on folks.....lets get out there and vote - even if we aren't voting for the same candidate.


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

In regards to Far. 9/11...Bush was not an actor in the movie...those tidbits were factual, he did and said all of those things...it disgusts me as well. 

~Elegant


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## Mystify79 (Apr 6, 2004)

I won't get into my opinions on the two candidates and who I support but I will give an opinion on F9/11. Fahrenheit 9/11 is basically Moore's outrageous, sensational opinion wrapped up in a neat package to look like facts. I'll admit, he brings up a few valid points, but he destroys any iota of integrity and believability by using shock value and outright lies to drive those points home. There is another film out called Fahrenhype 9/11 put out by Dick Morris, a former Clinton strategist, that shows a lot of how Moore used clips from other news shows to try and get his point across.. several of the people you see on his film weren't even interviewed by Moore himself and don't support his film at all. Don't get me wrong though, it's pretty right wing, but it does make you stop and think. And just for the record, I'm a Libertarian.


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## Brittany Lot (Jun 24, 2004)

Since everyone is talking about F 9/11 I just wanted to add that Moore offered $50,000 to any fact checker that could find a false statement in his movie. That money was never issued to anyone!


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## BrookeB676 (Oct 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Brittany Lot_@Oct 29 2004, 10:16 AM
> *Since everyone is talking about F 9/11 I just wanted to add that Moore offered $50,000 to any fact checker that could find a false statement in his movie.  That money was never issued to anyone!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=13938*


[/QUOTE]


How about Kerry's wife? I cant stand her, no offense. I dont like either of the candidates so I am not voting because neither of them stand for what I believe in and they both seem to be manipulative liars BUT Teresa Heinz Kerry- ugh! She is completely ignorant for not doing her research before bashing laura bush about "never working." Also, kerry is so against jobs overseas, meanwhile his wife's Ketchup company inheritance is ALL overseas! Crazy and they are both hypocrites!


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Brittany Lot_@Oct 29 2004, 09:16 AM
> *Since everyone is talking about F 9/11 I just wanted to add that Moore offered $50,000 to any fact checker that could find a false statement in his movie.  That money was never issued to anyone!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=13938*


[/QUOTE]
That's funny!  

~Elegant

P.s. Nice to hear from you Brittany Lot...been on any exciting adventures?


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

I rented it and I am going to watch it as soon as I give Brinkster his bath tonight...







Will post my opinion later....


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## TikisMom (Jul 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by saltymalty_@Oct 29 2004, 08:39 AM
> *I have a hard time keeping my eyes off all these wonderful posts...it's kind of like a train wreck...you cannot help but look.  I think that everyone has made such valid points on why to vote for their candidate.  I guess I'd like to stress to everyone...especially young women...how important it is to vote.  If we each get 5 women to the polls on election day...well imagine the impact that would have.  Let our voices be heard.  I don't care which candidate you are supporting, I just want to support your right to vote.  Let's do it together.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=13853*


[/QUOTE]

I almost never discuss religion and politics, even with my closest friends but I must chime in on this one.

Well said SaltyMalty! I agree 100%! 

Remember when placing your vote that though you may not like either of the two most likely winners, one of them is going to be our president..... maybe vote for your second choice rather than not vote at all. Often it is better to settle for second than to loose by putting your last choice in office by not voting at al or voting for an unlikely winner. 

That said lets all hope and pray for a solid election process that is non-violent and very honest!

Judi


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## a2z (Aug 23, 2004)

If there is an option called "anybody but Bush", that would be the one for me!!!


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by a2z_@Oct 30 2004, 07:21 AM
> *If there is an option called "anybody but Bush", that would be the one for me!!!
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=14107*


[/QUOTE]














































~Elegant


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

h34r: How bad is it that the election is 3 days away and I STILL am undecided?! What is wrong with me!? I feel like Kerry..I can't take a stand on ANYTHING!




























Sorry Kerry fans...
Anyway..I really can't make up my mind...there are things about both candidates that I like and dislike about equally...I really don't know what I am going to do. I have not yet watched the F9/11..the disc was messed up-hopefully will get to do that tonight or tomorrow afternoon...I really don't know if that will help or not-I feel so awful not knowing yet...


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn_@Oct 30 2004, 10:34 PM
> *h34r: How bad is it that the election is 3 days away and I STILL am undecided?! What is wrong with me!?  I feel like Kerry..I can't take a stand on ANYTHING!
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

One thing that might help is to look at what each candidate stands for and see if it coincides with what you believe. Ask yourself how you feel on the following issues as compared and contrasted to the candidates' stances:

1. A Woman's Right To Choose

2. Embryonic Stem Cell Research

3. The Environment

4. The Deficit

5. The State of the Economy

6. Do you want a president who makes decisions with "his heart and his gut" or one who makes decisions with his brain?

7. Do you want a president who makes a decision and does not waiver OR do you want one who is flexible enough to adjust his decision based on new information?

8. Is it important that your president has fought in a war and knows what it is like firsthand before sending young people in harm's way.

9. Do you want a president who has a winning personality and appears to be a fun-loving guy or one who is a "student" of history and considered more of an intellectual?

10. Do you care about how Americans are perceived overseas and are you interested in improving that perception?

11. Are you satisfied with our government's relations with other countries?

These issues and the candidates' positions on them helped me make my decision. 

Good luck to you!!


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn_@Oct 30 2004, 06:34 PM
> *h34r: How bad is it that the election is 3 days away and I STILL am undecided?! What is wrong with me!?  I feel like Kerry..I can't take a stand on ANYTHING!
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
I can help you...vote Kerry!








And yes, the 9/11 video will help...I would send you mine, but...
My computer plays DVDs, does yours? Maybe you can watch it on your computer!
~Elegant


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Elegant+Oct 30 2004, 10:46 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can help you...vote Kerry!








And yes, the 9/11 video will help...I would send you mine, but...
My computer plays DVDs, does yours? Maybe you can watch it on your computer!
~Elegant
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=14176
[/B][/QUOTE]

LOL-I am leaning that direction...I just have such issues with BOTH candidates...







:wacko:







:wacko:







:wacko: 
I think hubby got the f 9/11 to play...gonna watch it after church tomorrow.


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## nataliecmu (Aug 12, 2004)

I promise this is my last note!









If you are still undecided Go Here
It is a great side by side list of what each canidate believes... you also vote and it tallies up which canidate you agree with more.









Have fun. Make time to vote!


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

I just wanted to remind everyone that if you are a newly registered voter, please be sure to bring ID with you to vote tomorrow. You do not have to bring a photo ID, but you will have less of a chance of a problem if you do. You can bring a proof of residency such as a utility bill, rental lease, or bank statement. You can also use a passport, driver's license, or other form of photo id (like those issued to non-drivers). Please do not leave a polling place without voting. If your status is questioned, don't panic. Ask to vote by provisional ballot. In most states this is a paper ballot. Your registration will then be verified later. If your vote is challenged (which is perfectly legal) then vote by provisional ballot. Don't be intimidated by police officers at or near the polls. Police officers cannot question your ability to vote. Only offical poll workers can do that. They cannot deny you the chance to vote, they can only question whether you have registered correctly. And even then, they must allow you to vote by provisional ballot. 

I also wanted to ask everyone who reads this to please call 5 people and remind them to go out and vote. We can make a difference.


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

I voted...for Kerry!









I love getting those little "I Voted" stickers!

~Elegant


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