# I Have Eva's Test Results!



## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

I just got off the phone with my vet..she doesn't think these numbers are that bad and that Eva will be fine..the serum BAT-fasting is 44 and post is 85...her Protein C is 47..(normal is 70) .. these results are being faxed over to the internist...comments, concerns, advice all appreciated...thank you..


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Hmmmm......Eva's Protein C is pretty low, though. Less that 70 is indicative of a shunt and 47 is quite a bit under that. 

Protein C Activity Assay

It will be interesting to hear what the specialist has to say about it. Can you bump her appointment up since you have the lab results?

At least Eva is feeling better today! That's the most important thing.


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

I'll bet it's not a shunt. Hope they can figure out what is going on. She is on my prayer list. Dewey's pre meal was normal, post was 53. His Protein C was 65. Members here, helped me so much I was really a nervous wreck. He eats well and has a ton of energy!!


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

" Less than 70 is indicative of a shunt and 47 is quite a bit under that. "

Less than 70 MIGHT be indicative of a shunt..it is not a definitive test...a number of different tests must be run to draw that conclusion...Eva most likely does have some type of hepatic vascular abnormality...a few of our SM members have Malts with Protein C results under 70...and they are healthy..


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Furbabies mom said:


> I'll bet it's not a shunt. Hope they can figure out what is going on. She is on my prayer list. Dewey's pre meal was normal, post was 53. His Protein C was 65. Members here, helped me so much I was really a nervous wreck. He eats well and has a ton of energy!!


Yep..so does Eva...I have been feeding her a lot of cooked chicken breast(pure protein) lately...I wonder if that is what triggered her funky labs?


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

April, how much chicken breast has she been getting, say per day & for how long?


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

edelweiss said:


> April, how much chicken breast has she been getting, say per day & for how long?


I have been giving it for about 3 weeks as a topper on her kibble once a day-about 1/3 chicken to 2/3 kibble-I'm guessing 1-2 tablespoons? She weighs 5 pounds..just wanted to add that I stopped doing that on Monday of this week..


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

aprilb said:


> I have been giving it for about 3 weeks as a topper on her kibble once a day-about 1/3 chicken to 2/3 kibble-I'm guessing 1-2 tablespoons? She weighs 5 pounds..just wanted to add that I stopped doing that on Monday of this week..


April, I am sending positive thoughts and prayers for little Eva! Sounds encouraging. 
It does sound like Eva may be getting a bit of extra protein. Daisy and Max (who are 6 lbs.) each get 1 tbsp. of white meat chicken with their Sojos grain free veggie mix. The 1 tbsp. is all of the protein per meal, so if you are adding that to what Eva is already getting in her kibble, maybe it is a little to much for her. A tablespoon looks like nothing to us - every time I give it to them, I am afraid I am starving them, but I bet it could make a difference in the results.


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## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

Hello April , happy ypou got your results specialist will be able to tell you more , Becky's protein C was 69 % and she did have a shunt but her bile acids were pre 6 and post 129 .


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## Zoe's Mom88 (Apr 25, 2011)

April, glad your going to a specialist to help figure it all out. It sounds so confusing with no definitive direction...maybe that's a good thing. Thank goodness she doesn't have any real symptoms of being sick. Hugs to you!!


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

April - I'm not at all familiar with the numbers and what they mean but think it will help to see the internist. Also the whole platelet issue I would think is an important one. Praying the numbers you got just mean a diet fix.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

It is all pretty confusing, hopefully the specialists will be able to sort it all out soon. It is hard not knowing what is going on. That is a very low Protein C, but the BAT is decent, then the blood clotting. For some reason I feel it is something other than a shunt. :grouphug:


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## harrysmom (Sep 28, 2007)

I'm glad that the results don't seem too bad. It's so easy to forget how small these little guys actually are. Last summer I started adding a very small amount of chicken to Harry's meals. I thought it would be no problem since he was doing so well. I was soooo wrong. It caused him to develop hepatic encephalopathy, which meant that his body couldn't handle the protein and it turned to ammonia in his blood stream and affected his brain. He literally went crazy, trying to run away from me  and absolutely acting nothing like himself. So, I am also hoping that Eva's problems can be fixed by diet. Sending hugs.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

April, with liver disease purine is an important element along w. the proteins. Some protein is lower in purine (examples--dairy, eggs, oatmeal, white fish) than meat proteins. Some people think you can just cut out the protein but all dogs need good protein & some fat. 
Eva has a few things that are abnormal so you need to find out what is affecting what. 
Did your vet say anything about thyroid results? Just curious.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

edelweiss said:


> April, with liver disease purine is an important element along w. the proteins. Some protein is lower in purine (examples--dairy, eggs, oatmeal, white fish) than meat proteins. Some people think you can just cut out the protein but all dogs need good protein & some fat.
> Eva has a few things that are abnormal so you need to find out what is affecting what.
> Did your vet say anything about thyroid results? Just curious.


The only thing off is her ALT and platelets..everything else is normal...and she has been asymptomatic all this time..she was doing "zoomies" only last night...I am stumped..hate waiting, but Monday at 10am is the first available...if I let them work me in, I would be sitting there for hours, and I do not want the doctor rushed when she sees us..


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

aprilb said:


> The only thing off is her ALT and platelets..everything else is normal...and she has been asymptomatic all this time..she was doing "zoomies" only last night...I am stumped..hate waiting, but Monday at 10am is the first available...if I let them work me in, I would be sitting there for hours, and I do not want the doctor rushed when she sees us..


Zoomies is a good sign! :chili:

Carolina Vets are supposed to be excellent so I am sure they will figure it out. Try not to worry in the meantime.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Ruling out a shunt should be done with portal scintigraphy. This is a non invasive test that requires no sedation. But once that is ruled out, the other reasons for the thrombocytopenia in dogs are AIHA (Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia), poisons such as rat poison (seriously doubt that) or some types of infections. Are her gums pale? Here is a description of AIHA:

_Autoimmune hemolytic anemia (AIHA) is a well-recognized syndrome that occurs when a dog's body no longer recognizes its own blood cells and attacks them. There are two versions of AIHA. The first is more rare and more serious. It generally involves middle-aged, larger-breed dogs. The disease comes on very quickly. The dogs show profound anemia, often have blood in their urine, and may appear yellow (jaundiced) on their light skin areas or by their eyes or gums. These dogs need immediate veterinary care, and the prognosis is not good._
_The more common version of AIHA syndrome is acute but not quite so severe. In this case, signs may develop over a couple of days. Cocker spaniels have a genetic predisposition to developing this version of AIHA. Affected dogs become weak or fatigued easily. These dogs' gums will appear pale in color, and you may notice a yellowish cast to the gums and eyes. Astute families may notice that their dog's abdomen is a bit distended, as the liver and spleen are often enlarged. Luckily, dogs with acute AIHA generally respond well to therapy with corticosteroids such as prednisone that limit the body's immune responses._

Either way you need a specialist consult ASAP IMHO. Don't delay for any reason. Any of these conditions are very serious.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

aprilb said:


> The only thing off is her ALT and platelets..everything else is normal...and she has been asymptomatic all this time..she was doing "zoomies" only last night...I am stumped..hate waiting, but Monday at 10am is the first available...if I let them work me in, I would be sitting there for hours, and I do not want the doctor rushed when she sees us..


Did you also say she has high glucose? Do you know the #s?


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Can't really help except to say that I'm glad that Eva is doing zoomies and that the numbers don't appear to be extreme.

Continuing to send prayers your way.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Her Protein C is low.... but I think it could possibly be the protein levels she was eating.

In my personal opinion, these little fluffs don't need as much protein as their working or hunting breed cousins... They are bred to be lap dogs and companions... I'm guessing that way back when they were more likely to be fed veggies and grains with only bits of meat, not a heavy meat diet. But again, that is just my opinion.

I'm glad she is doing better. It would be interesting to retest her in a few weeks to see if dropping her protein helped. Too much protein = too high ammonia levels... but in a dog who doesn't have a shunt or MVD (I would be shocked if Eva did) the levels can normalize rather quickly after things are remedied.

Maybe add some veggies or fruit to her kibble instead of meat 

Hope her appointment goes well.


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## MoonDog (Jun 6, 2011)

Glad to hear Eva's zooming around. She'll remain in my prayers.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Though I do believe the 'cause' needs to be addressed..it does sound promising.

Please don't forget the possibility of tick-borne diseases. So often they can have the 'tiniest of tiny' tick and never noticed.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Grace'sMom said:


> Her Protein C is low.... but I think it could possibly be the protein levels she was eating.
> 
> In my personal opinion, these little fluffs don't need as much protein as their working or hunting breed cousins... They are bred to be lap dogs and companions... I'm guessing that way back when they were more likely to be fed veggies and grains with only bits of meat, not a heavy meat diet. But again, that is just my opinion.
> 
> ...


Protein C is a plasma anticoagulant factor and not related to diet. It is a blood factor. The measurement of protein C activity aids in the diagnosis of thrombotic disorders and liver disease.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

I'm glad to hear that Eva is doing zoomies.:grouphug:


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## IvysMom (Dec 24, 2012)

I think we can all agree that Zoomies are a positive sign. I hope they continue which will make the wait until Monday easier to bear.


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## Yogi's Mom (Jan 6, 2013)

*Gald shes doing Zoomies. I Cant help you but to pray.*
*All these post are so above me but sure are scary. Nickee**


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

I am so happy that sweet Eva is starting to behave like herself again. It is always a good sign. Please do not get upset and think only positive thoughts. You have very little information still. There is no reason to assume it is a liver shunt. Take things step by step. I still believe that if she is acting well that that is a more positive sign than anything else.

I also agree, we tend to think of protein as everything in dog diets. There is some controversial evidence that less protein may be better for dogs. Protein is important but may be overemphasized. There are studies of wolves in captivity who show increase vigor and longevity when fed a less protein intensive diet, with the addition of grain. The studies may be flawed but they open interesting doors, nevertheless.

Wishing only the best for the two of you.


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## lmillette (Apr 23, 2012)

I don't have experience with this but you and Eva are in my thoughts and prayers. Please keep us posted.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

aprilb said:


> I just got off the phone with my vet..she doesn't think these numbers are that bad and that Eva will be fine..the serum BAT-fasting is 44 and post is 85...her Protein C is 47..(normal is 70) .. these results are being faxed over to the internist...comments, concerns, advice all appreciated...thank you..


Oh April, I'd be pulling my hair out :smpullhair: ....thank goodness Eva is acting normal. :thumbsup: Could the chicken meat make her have all those blood problems? I hope with Eva there was a way they can diagnose _whether or not this was shunt related_, before doing more (shunt) tests. May not have a choice, but would be nice for her. So happy she is playing, that is wonderful......rayer: 

also, I wondered if like in Eva's case, if we take our pet to a specialty clinic for a problem (like my ER hospital/spec clinc here) and they refer us OR we decide to take them to say (univ vet school) will Pet plan continue to pay for that same problem or want me to stay with the original clinic? (also, I can't stand one of the internist I got once at the spec clinic here, I don't know why but he didn't know much about Maltese at all. I hope yours are better)


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## amsnider (Feb 26, 2013)

April,

I Hope everything works out and the internist is able to get you some definitive answers! Praying for you and Eva!


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladysmom said:


> Protein C Activity Assay


Marj--thanks for this link to Cornell, easy to understand too. :thumbsup:


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

SammieMom said:


> Oh April, I'd be pulling my hair out :smpullhair: ....thank goodness Eva is acting normal. :thumbsup: Could the chicken meat make her have all those blood problems? I hope with Eva there was a way they can diagnose _whether or not this was shunt related_, before doing more (shunt) tests. May not have a choice, but would be nice for her. So happy she is playing, that is wonderful......rayer:
> 
> *also, I wondered if like in Eva's case, if we take our pet to a specialty clinic for a problem (like my ER hospital/spec clinc here) and they refer us OR we decide to take them to say (univ vet school) will Pet plan continue to pay for that same problem or want me to stay with the original clinic? (also, I can't stand one of the internist I got once at the spec clinic here, I don't know why but he didn't know much about Maltese at all. I hope yours are better)*


Kandis - I don't think it's an issue about which doctor's you see. In fact since there's a deductible it's a deductible per that medical issue so once it's fulfilled for a medical incident and if there's folo up at same or different doctor, you don't pay the deductible again for the different doctor. You've already done so if you met it. I'm quite sure that's how it works.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Maidto2Maltese said:


> Though I do believe the 'cause' needs to be addressed..it does sound promising.
> 
> Please don't forget the possibility of tick-borne diseases. So often they can have the 'tiniest of tiny' tick and never noticed.



Very true.... And since nyphs are the size of poppy seeds, they can be easily missed or dismissed (as freckles, dirt)....


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Kandis - I don't think it's an issue about which doctor's you see. In fact since there's a deductible it's a deductible per that medical issue so once it's fulfilled for a medical incident and if there's folo up at same or different doctor, you don't pay the deductible again for the different doctor. You've already done so if you met it. I'm quite sure that's how it works.



Thanks Sue, I hoped that was the case. :thumbsup: With people some plans have stipulations if you change doctors (on your own) once diagnosed so that got me to wondering about pets.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Snowbody said:


> April - I'm not at all familiar with the numbers and what they mean but think it will help to see the internist. Also the whole *platelet issue* I would think is an important one. Praying the numbers you got just mean a diet fix.


The platelet issue is also MY concern. This is nothing to take lightly. And I am shocked that your vet does not know how to address this (maybe I understood your post wrong, but that's what I understood). I would not be so sure that the zoomies are a good sign. With my experience with Alex they are not. Even with his platelets down to 69 he was still playing rough with us. There was no physical sign that something was wrong. But I saw some red spots on his chest and went to the vet to have it checked out. My own vet was not at the clinic that morning and the one I saw thought it was a rash. For my peace of mind I asked for a complete blood count. Where they took the blood a huge bruise came out, and then I found another one on the inside of his thigh. I called the clinic and my vet came on the line and I told him about the bruise. And he said he was ready to call me about the lab results. The bruise is from his low platelets count and we have to see him back immediately. Thankgoodness he did not need a blood transfusion (because if the platelets drop even lower some dogs need a transfusion). I don't want to alarm you, but a low platelets count is very very serious and some dogs have died from it. Reading some of the posts here, I realize that my Houston vet was fantastic. I never needed to see an internist or cardiologist or go somewhere else for ultra sound, surgery, dental cleaning. He was on top and consulted with the radiologist and cardiologist, and orthopedist to back up his findings. The 2 vet clinics I went to with Alex here in Arizona are not bad but not as good. I really miss my Houston vet clinic.


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

MalteseJane said:


> The platelet issue is also MY concern. This is nothing to take lightly. And I am shocked that your vet does not know how to address this (maybe I understood your post wrong, but that's what I understood). I would not be so sure that the zoomies are a good sign. With my experience with Alex they are not. Even with his platelets down to 69 he was still playing rough with us. There was no physical sign that something was wrong. But I saw some red spots on his chest and went to the vet to have it checked out. My own vet was not at the clinic that morning and the one I saw thought it was a rash. For my peace of mind I asked for a complete blood count. Where they took the blood a huge bruise came out, and then I found another one on the inside of his thigh. I called the clinic and my vet came on the line and I told him about the bruise. And he said he was ready to call me about the lab results. The bruise is from his low platelets count and we have to see him back immediately. Thankgoodness he did not need a blood transfusion (because if the platelets drop even lower some dogs need a transfusion). I don't want to alarm you, but a low platelets count is very very serious and some dogs have died from it. Reading some of the posts here, I realize that my Houston vet was fantastic. I never needed to see an internist or cardiologist or go somewhere else for ultra sound, surgery, dental cleaning. He was on top and consulted with the radiologist and cardiologist, and orthopedist to back up his findings. The 2 vet clinics I went to with Alex here in Arizona are not bad but not as good. I really miss my Houston vet clinic.


I agree with Jane the low platelets scare me too.


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## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

Sometimes dogs with liver disease have low platelets ....


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## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

April the best place for you to join for answers about Liver is yahoo groups liver / mvd , This is where i got so much support and answers to my questions


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Kandis - I don't think it's an issue about which doctor's you see. In fact since there's a deductible it's a deductible per that medical issue so once it's fulfilled for a medical incident and if there's folo up at same or different doctor, you don't pay the deductible again for the different doctor. You've already done so if you met it. I'm quite sure that's how it works.


Yes..that's true..



elly said:


> I agree with Jane the low platelets scare me too.


yes..this scares me, too



Snowbody said:


> April - I'm not at all familiar with the numbers and what they mean but think it will help to see the internist. Also the whole platelet issue I would think is an important one. Praying the numbers you got just mean a diet fix.


thanks-me,too



silverhaven said:


> It is all pretty confusing, hopefully the specialists will be able to sort it all out soon. It is hard not knowing what is going on. That is a very low Protein C, but the BAT is decent, then the blood clotting. For some reason I feel it is something other than a shunt. :grouphug:


It is low..not happy about it..I pray you are right..it is confusing!



harrysmom said:


> I'm glad that the results don't seem too bad. It's so easy to forget how small these little guys actually are. Last summer I started adding a very small amount of chicken to Harry's meals. I thought it would be no problem since he was doing so well. I was soooo wrong. It caused him to develop hepatic encephalopathy, which meant that his body couldn't handle the protein and it turned to ammonia in his blood stream and affected his brain. He literally went crazy, trying to run away from me  and absolutely acting nothing like himself. So, I am also hoping that Eva's problems can be fixed by diet. Sending hugs.


Thanks, Debbie...me, too



pammy4501 said:


> Ruling out a shunt should be done with portal scintigraphy. This is a non invasive test that requires no sedation. But once that is ruled out, the other reasons for the thrombocytopenia in dogs are AIHA (Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia), poisons such as rat poison (seriously doubt that) or some types of infections. Are her gums pale? Here is a description of AIHA: Her gums look pink to me.. she is not anemic because her red blood count and iron are normal..nor does she have jaundice..the portal scintigraphy I will mention to the vet
> 
> 
> Either way you need a specialist consult ASAP IMHO. Don't delay for any reason. Any of these conditions are very serious.


I absolutely agree with you..she is seeing a board-certified internist on Mon morning..



edelweiss said:


> Did you also say she has high glucose? Do you know the #s?


it was a very slight increase..



Lacie's Mom said:


> Can't really help except to say that I'm glad that Eva is doing zoomies and that the numbers don't appear to be extreme.
> 
> Continuing to send prayers your way.


You are sweet..thank you



Grace'sMom said:


> Her Protein C is low.... but I think it could possibly be the protein levels she was eating.
> 
> In my personal opinion, these little fluffs don't need as much protein as their working or hunting breed cousins... They are bred to be lap dogs and companions... I'm guessing that way back when they were more likely to be fed veggies and grains with only bits of meat, not a heavy meat diet. But again, that is just my opinion.
> 
> ...


Thank you...I agree about the diet..



MoonDog said:


> Glad to hear Eva's zooming around. She'll remain in my prayers.


Thank you Robin...



Maidto2Maltese said:


> Though I do believe the 'cause' needs to be addressed..it does sound promising.
> 
> Please don't forget the possibility of tick-borne diseases. So often they can have the 'tiniest of tiny' tick and never noticed.


I will be sure and bring this up.



Sylie said:


> I'm glad to hear that Eva is doing zoomies.:grouphug:


Awe-thank you



IvysMom said:


> I think we can all agree that Zoomies are a positive sign. I hope they continue which will make the wait until Monday easier to bear.


 Thanks



Yogi's Mom said:


> *Gald shes doing Zoomies. I Cant help you but to pray.*
> *All these post are so above me but sure are scary. Nickee**


Praying is the best thing you can do..it is scary..



wkomorow said:


> I am so happy that sweet Eva is starting to behave like herself again. It is always a good sign. Please do not get upset and think only positive thoughts. You have very little information still. There is no reason to assume it is a liver shunt. Take things step by step. I still believe that if she is acting well that that is a more positive sign than anything else.
> 
> I also agree, we tend to think of protein as everything in dog diets. There is some controversial evidence that less protein may be better for dogs. Protein is important but may be overemphasized. There are studies of wolves in captivity who show increase vigor and longevity when fed a less protein intensive diet, with the addition of grain. The studies may be flawed but they open interesting doors, nevertheless.
> 
> Wishing only the best for the two of you.


Thanks, Walter..very good points.



lmillette said:


> I don't have experience with this but you and Eva are in my thoughts and prayers. Please keep us posted.


Thanks, I will



amsnider said:


> April,
> 
> I Hope everything works out and the internist is able to get you some definitive answers! Praying for you and Eva!


Thank you..



Grace'sMom said:


> Very true.... And since nyphs are the size of poppy seeds, they can be easily missed or dismissed (as freckles, dirt)....


Absolutely..



MalteseJane said:


> The platelet issue is also MY concern. This is nothing to take lightly. And I am shocked that your vet does not know how to address this (maybe I understood your post wrong, but that's what I understood). I would not be so sure that the zoomies are a good sign. With my experience with Alex they are not. Even with his platelets down to 69 he was still playing rough with us. There was no physical sign that something was wrong. But I saw some red spots on his chest and went to the vet to have it checked out. My own vet was not at the clinic that morning and the one I saw thought it was a rash. For my peace of mind I asked for a complete blood count. Where they took the blood a huge bruise came out, and then I found another one on the inside of his thigh. I called the clinic and my vet came on the line and I told him about the bruise. And he said he was ready to call me about the lab results. The bruise is from his low platelets count and we have to see him back immediately. Thankgoodness he did not need a blood transfusion (because if the platelets drop even lower some dogs need a transfusion). I don't want to alarm you, but a low platelets count is very very serious and some dogs have died from it. Reading some of the posts here, I realize that my Houston vet was fantastic. I never needed to see an internist or cardiologist or go somewhere else for ultra sound, surgery, dental cleaning. He was on top and consulted with the radiologist and cardiologist, and orthopedist to back up his findings. The 2 vet clinics I went to with Alex here in Arizona are not bad but not as good. I really miss my Houston vet clinic.


Yes..this is very serious...the same thing happened to Eva when they took her blood...gee I wish I had your Houston vet, too.. and you did understand me right about my vet not knowing what to do about her low platelets..I was shocked, too..Eva's bruising is continuing to recede which is encouraging..and she is never alone..I am continuously monitoring her for those little red or blue spots..they told me to pay special attention to her ears..if I see any of those little spots, I will take her straight in to emergency! I can have her there in under 10 minutes. As long as she remains stable, I think she is better off at home with me. Thank you so much for your concern.. I appreciate it and I am glad Alex has such a great Mom..


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

aksm4 said:


> Sometimes dogs with liver disease have low platelets ....


yes, you are absolutely right! I only learned this recently..thanks!


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

MalteseJane said:


> The platelet issue is also MY concern. This is nothing to take lightly. And I am shocked that your vet does not know how to address this (maybe I understood your post wrong, but that's what I understood). I would not be so sure that the zoomies are a good sign. With my experience with Alex they are not. Even with his platelets down to 69 he was still playing rough with us. There was no physical sign that something was wrong. But I saw some red spots on his chest and went to the vet to have it checked out. My own vet was not at the clinic that morning and the one I saw thought it was a rash. For my peace of mind I asked for a complete blood count. Where they took the blood a huge bruise came out, and then I found another one on the inside of his thigh. I called the clinic and my vet came on the line and I told him about the bruise. And he said he was ready to call me about the lab results. The bruise is from his low platelets count and we have to see him back immediately. Thankgoodness he did not need a blood transfusion (because if the platelets drop even lower some dogs need a transfusion). I don't want to alarm you, but a low platelets count is very very serious and some dogs have died from it. Reading some of the posts here, I realize that my Houston vet was fantastic. I never needed to see an internist or cardiologist or go somewhere else for ultra sound, surgery, dental cleaning. He was on top and consulted with the radiologist and cardiologist, and orthopedist to back up his findings. The 2 vet clinics I went to with Alex here in Arizona are not bad but not as good. I really miss my Houston vet clinic.


Janine, what was the treatment for Alex without a transfusion?  this is what I was kinda asking yesterday. I understand you watch for spots, bruises, changes. Other than that they seem normal. I had never heard of this till Eva.


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## TLR (Nov 13, 2011)

April, I'm glad you have Eva under your watchful eye. Continued prayers for her.


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

April, I still think it is entirely way too early to jump to any conclusions. There are many reasons that elevated ALT and low platelets can happen- it may be related, or it may just be happening at the same time but independent of each other (I hope that makes sense). I pray that you would not worry and that the internist can do a thorough work-up for both of these issues. You are a wonderful mommy to your girls- they are blessed to have you :hugs:


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Protein C is a clotting factor. It has nothing to do with the amount of protein a dog ingests.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

SammieMom said:


> Janine, what was the treatment for Alex without a transfusion?  this is what I was kinda asking yesterday. I understand you watch for spots, bruises, changes. Other than that they seem normal. I had never heard of this till Eva.


He was treated with prednisone and monitored closely. He was on it 6 months. We tried to stop at 3 months but had to go on longer. He never had an other occurence but I always made sure that the platelets were okay before doing a dental. And of course watched for signs. When the platelets fall very very low to the point they need a transfusion you will see symptoms. A friend warned me about this (another reason why I asked for the blood panel). Her dog died from it. When she went to the vet the dog was already bleeding in his lungs. But it was an old dog with many other problems, so they choose to euthanize.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

SammieMom said:


> Oh April, I'd be pulling my hair out :smpullhair: ....thank goodness Eva is acting normal. :thumbsup: Could the chicken meat make her have all those blood problems? I hope with Eva there was a way they can diagnose _whether or not this was shunt related_, before doing more (shunt) tests. May not have a choice, but would be nice for her. So happy she is playing, that is wonderful......rayer:
> 
> also, I wondered if like in Eva's case, if we take our pet to a specialty clinic for a problem (like my ER hospital/spec clinc here) and they refer us OR we decide to take them to say (univ vet school) will Pet plan continue to pay for that same problem or want me to stay with the original clinic? (also, I can't stand one of the internist I got once at the spec clinic here, I don't know why but he didn't know much about Maltese at all. I hope yours are better)


Kandis -- I have VPI Insurance (not PetPlan), but I took Secret to an Opthomology Specialist (over a year ago) WITHOUT a referral from my regular Vet, and they paid the claim without any problems or questions.


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## Maisie and Me (Mar 12, 2009)

April, just letting you know I am thinking and praying for both of you. Try to stay calm, hugs to you!!:wub:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

MalteseJane said:


> He was treated with prednisone and monitored closely. He was on it 6 months. We tried to stop at 3 months but had to go on longer. He never had an other occurence but I always made sure that the platelets were okay before doing a dental. And of course watched for signs. When the platelets fall very very low to the point they need a transfusion you will see symptoms. A friend warned me about this (another reason why I asked for the blood panel). Her dog died from it. When she went to the vet the dog was already bleeding in his lungs. But it was an old dog with many other problems, so they choose to euthanize.


Thanks for explaining it Janine. Very scary. Sounds relatively rare. 



Lacie's Mom said:


> Kandis -- I have VPI Insurance (not PetPlan), but I took Secret to an Opthomology Specialist (over a year ago) WITHOUT a referral from my regular Vet, and they paid the claim without any problems or questions.


Thanks Lynn- :thumbsup:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

April, another thought came to me because of my experience w/Kitzel (3 tests before platelets were normal)--if it is a difficult draw (did you see them draw the blood) it can taint the results. My vet did a differential & it was still not good. It was only on the third test that we got a normal. There are lots of false/positives w/this kind of blood draw--let's pray that might have been why. All of us know how difficult it is to do a good draw w/such tiny veins.
If your vet doesn't know how to treat platelets I am prone to wonder if she knows much about taking a sample? JMHO
I know Eva already had high ALT so maybe the 2 are not connected at all.
Slightly higher glucose could simply be due to stress.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

edelweiss said:


> April, another thought came to me because of my experience w/Kitzel (3 tests before platelets were normal)--if it is a difficult draw (did you see them draw the blood) it can taint the results. My vet did a differential & it was still not good. It was only on the third test that we got a normal. There are lots of false/positives w/this kind of blood draw--let's pray that might have been why. All of us know how difficult it is to do a good draw w/such tiny veins.
> If your vet doesn't know how to treat platelets I am prone to wonder if she knows much about taking a sample? JMHO
> I know Eva already had high ALT so maybe the 2 are not connected at all.
> Slightly higher glucose could simply be due to stress.


Hi Sandi-What about all of her bruising. I thought that was from her platelets.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

If it were a bad draw that bruising can be a side effect, Kandis---not saying it is the case here but it is within the realm of possibility. My Kirby and my Bo both bruised like that on the throat when they had blood draws---it looked awful. Lisi has yet to have any kind of bruise as the ER vet that has drawn her blood does a fantastic job.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

OK, so I have what is known as a propeller brain---it doesn't rest well.
I have been wondering if you took your girls when you traveled in Nov ? was it, on a vacy? Maybe if you did take Eva she might have gotten into something there or gotten a very small tick that you didn't notice which later left after feeding on her. This is a very remote possibility, but still we are grasping for straws here anyhow, so indulge me. If you took the girls I would have them all tested for tick-borne disease as it may be more silent after the initial phase of infection. Gee, what will I come up w/next! :smilie_tischkante:


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

edelweiss said:


> April, another thought came to me because of my experience w/Kitzel (3 tests before platelets were normal)--if it is a difficult draw (did you see them draw the blood) it can taint the results. My vet did a differential & it was still not good. It was only on the third test that we got a normal. There are lots of false/positives w/this kind of blood draw--let's pray that might have been why. All of us know how difficult it is to do a good draw w/such tiny veins.
> If your vet doesn't know how to treat platelets I am prone to wonder if she knows much about taking a sample? JMHO
> I know Eva already had high ALT so maybe the 2 are not connected at all.
> Slightly higher glucose could simply be due to stress.


All good points...the vet did confirm with a differential...she also said the slightly higher glucose was probably from stress...the bruising was pretty extensive..Eva has had blood drawn before and this never happened...they took blood from her jugular and the ventral part of her neck and the upper half of her chest turned black..forgot to say, she had also been stuck on both back legs, and one foreleg...all turned black and pressure had to be applied to stop the bleeding..


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

edelweiss said:


> OK, so I have what is known as a propeller brain---it doesn't rest well.
> I have been wondering if you took your girls when you traveled in Nov ? was it, on a vacy? Maybe if you did take Eva she might have gotten into something there or gotten a very small tick that you didn't notice which later left after feeding on her. This is a very remote possibility, but still we are grasping for straws here anyhow, so indulge me. If you took the girls I would have them all tested for tick-borne disease as it may be more silent after the initial phase of infection. Gee, what will I come up w/next! :smilie_tischkante:


We went to B'ham, AL at Christmas..but the girls never went outside..I will ask about the tick-thing Monday...also Eva is pretty much an indoor Maltese(uses potty pads),goes out on the deck, walks on a sidewalk...as do the other two..


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

I think I'm a bit like Sandi with the 'propeller-brain" LOL ... though I didn't read thru all the posts again,,, I did want to see about the bruising. Somehow I initially thought it was a 'sudden-onset' bruising on 'random part of her body...but now see it was just at site where blood was drawn? If so Sandi is right in that it can easily happen. My Missy had gotten some nasty bruises from blood draws.. not always but it did happen. 

As I was thinking last night about the low platelets... it came to me about an issue we had when we frist got Naddie. I got her file out...We got her in the fall....in Feb of the following year she was acting 'off'... not 'sick-sick' but off. I took her temp and was normal. Over a few days she lost her appetite. I continued to monitor her temp all OK. Getting near the week-end I felt the vet needed to take a look to avoid a possible week-end 'crisis" . By the time he ( not our reg vet) saw her she did indeed have a temp. He did full blood panel. and put her on an antibiotic though we really didn't know what was going on. 
*That blood panel showed her platelets to be only 62!!!! ( norm 154-510!)* I was SCARED!!! 
She started feeling more herself over the week-end and then I called to talk with our reg vet on Mon. regarding those platelets. She said she was pretty confident it was not a worry... that it was not unusual for platelets to 'scatter' ( for want of better word) when on slide giving a false 'low". She said she'd, in a couple of weeks, re-test and did so.... new test showed platelets to be in normal range!!


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

edelweiss said:


> OK, so I have what is known as a propeller brain---it doesn't rest well.
> I have been wondering if you took your girls when you traveled in Nov ? was it, on a vacy? Maybe if you did take Eva she might have gotten into something there or gotten a very small tick that you didn't notice which later left after feeding on her. This is a very remote possibility, but still we are grasping for straws here anyhow, so indulge me. If you took the girls I would have them all tested for tick-borne disease as it may be more silent after the initial phase of infection. Gee, what will I come up w/next! :smilie_tischkante:





Maidto2Maltese said:


> I think I'm a bit like Sandi with the 'propeller-brain" LOL ... though I didn't read thru all the posts again,,, I did want to see about the bruising. Somehow I initially thought it was a 'sudden-onset' bruising on 'random part of her body...but now see it was just at site where blood was drawn? If so Sandi is right in that it can easily happen. My Missy had gotten some nasty bruises from blood draws.. not always but it did happen.
> 
> As I was thinking last night about the low platelets... it came to me about an issue we had when we frist got Naddie. I got her file out...We got her in the fall....in Feb of the following year she was acting 'off'... not 'sick-sick' but off. I took her temp and was normal. Over a few days she lost her appetite. I continued to monitor her temp all OK. Getting near the week-end I felt the vet needed to take a look to avoid a possible week-end 'crisis" . By the time he ( not our reg vet) saw her she did indeed have a temp. He did full blood panel. and put her on an antibiotic though we really didn't know what was going on.
> *That blood panel showed her platelets to be only 62!!!! ( norm 154-510!)* I was SCARED!!!
> She started feeling more herself over the week-end and then I called to talk with our reg vet on Mon. regarding those platelets. She said she was pretty confident it was not a worry... that it was not unusual for platelets to 'scatter' ( for want of better word) when on slide giving a false 'low". She said she'd, in a couple of weeks, re-test and did so.... new test showed platelets to be in normal range!!


Wow Terry..that is interesting...Eva's was 105..the bruising is almost gone today..and Miss Eva is full of energy..


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

edelweiss said:


> If it were a bad draw that bruising can be a side effect, Kandis---not saying it is the case here but it is within the realm of possibility. My Kirby and my Bo both bruised like that on the throat when they had blood draws---it looked awful. Lisi has yet to have any kind of bruise as the ER vet that has drawn her blood does a fantastic job.


Thanks Sandi-I will be aware of this now. :wub:


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

edelweiss said:


> If it were a bad draw that bruising can be a side effect, Kandis---not saying it is the case here but it is within the realm of possibility. My Kirby and my Bo both bruised like that on the throat when they had blood draws---it looked awful. Lisi has yet to have any kind of bruise as the ER vet that has drawn her blood does a fantastic job.


April, I was thinking the same thing as Sandi.

Once when they could not draw the blood from Snowball's neck or shoulder area ... it was drawn from the foot or leg area. Anyway, since then, and also because at that same time, Snowball's labs were way off ... I have requested only his doctor draw his blood.

Also, I learned from Dr Krisi that sometimes the blood, if not drawn correctly, can produce false lab results. I forget the technical name for it.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

April, my sweetheart, I had no idea, till the other day, that you were going through all these test and worries with Eva. My heart is with you.

I love that she is doing the zoomies .

Since I heard, I have been keeping both of you, so close to my heart and prayers.

If this helps, and honestly don't even know if it is even related, but I had Mia and Leo, spayed and neutered, at the same time. Had all the pre-op work done. The doc said, both were fine.

Then during a normal check-up, a tech calls me, and says both are fine, "well Mia's BUN, is a little high, but oh, that's what it was when she was spayed. :w00t:

Oh I had kittens. I had no idea about any number being high or anything.

So, of course, I got right on the phone with their vet. And I do trust my vet. Anyway, I wanted an explanation, and fast. Well, she explained to me, that Mia's Bun numbers, are Mia's "normal" numbers. She explained further about different things, but there is now a note in my file, that only my vet call with results.

In any case, that may be so unrelated. Just know I love you, so sorry, I have been so out of touch, with you, and everyone. 

Deeply in my heart,
Christine


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

April... I don't know why that episode with Naddie's platelets didn't come to me immediately... my brain seems to be getting like my computer... gettin' old and slow to 'download" LOL


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

April - just checking back to see how Eva's doing this morning and sending prayers for her health. Will be happy when you get to the internist on MOnday for a new view.


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