# Pit Bulls Aren't sweet



## Boobookit (Dec 3, 2005)

*Hi All,

While I KNOW that there are a lot of people who have, love and trust Pit Bulls but we still need to know the dangers of what they are capable of doing and how quickly they move....I just wanted to share this story because it hit close to home. 

A very close friend of mine, we refer to each other as sisters, lives in Florida. She had a Doberman, Savannah, for 8 years who was extremely well trained.

Last November, right after I got Ralphie, she got Nina, a 9 month old pit bull. She got the dog from a breeder who happens to be a life long friend of her partner. Nina was very well trained and my friend trained her even more.

Two weeks ago, my friend Lisa, went out into the fenced in back yard and the two companions went with her...Savannah laid down in a small hole, calm, quiet and relaxed, that she had dug as it is much cooler to lay in the dirt because of the heat, and Nina the pit was behind Lisa.

All of a sudden Savannah lunged behind Lisa and got in between Lisa and the pit and they started to fight. Nina, the pit who was 50 pounds, to Savannah's 120 pounds was pulling gouges of flesh from the Dobie.

Lisa's partner picked up a metal pipe and hit the pit to try to get her to release Savannah and the pipe didn't even phase her, she kept on attacking. Nina, the pit, pushed Savannah into the hole and snapped her neck....... killing her instantly.

There was no food involved, no reason for the attack.

They called Animal Control and had them come and get Nina the next day and she was put to sleep. The woman who came for her told her that 95% of calls for animal attacks are done by Pit Bulls. She went on further to say that no matter what you do or how they are trained, they were bred for fighting purposes only and it is in their blood. As she was saying this Nina was sitting next to her as if she was the perfect angel!!

The woman from animal control told Lisa that what must have happened was, when Lisa had her back to the pit, the pit was sneaking up behind her and was going to attack her and Savannah sensed it and jumped in the middle. Which would explain why she went from calm and almost asleep to the lunging between Lisa and Nina the pit. Savannah died protecting the mommy she knew and loved.

We really DO need to be careful...My friend is heartbroken and says that she will never ever trust a pit bull again. She begged me to be careful with my boys and she doesn't need to tell me that.....

We have a pit across the street from me who is about 8 months old and big already and not trained.....We NEVER go near him anymore even though he is "gentle."

Marie & the Boys

*


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## Lennabella (Mar 29, 2007)

Urghhhhhhhhhhhhh that story made me sick to my stomach ...

I can't stand Pit Bull's - I personally think they should be banned from society - even though owners will say they are little angels .. you just don't know when they will turn on you.


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

What a very sad story :smcry: I am so sorry for your friend's Dobie, what a hero she was :wub:


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## SpringHasSprung (May 4, 2007)

I agree with you LennaBella....completely. As far as I'm concerned, they are potential lethal weapons.


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## lillady (Jan 25, 2007)

:smcry: :smcry: :smcry: :smcry: :smcry:


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## gatiger40 (Jun 7, 2007)

I am so sorry for your friend. I personally hate pit bulls. There was one involved in the death of my cat Sunny. I think there is nothing good about that breed. (Just my opionion which I will never change).


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## Ricky & Lucy's Mom (Nov 7, 2007)

I'm a dog lover, but would have to agree with you on this though. A couple of days ago here in our area two pit bulls attacked a horse and mangled it so badly that the horse had to be put down--as were the two pits.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

this is a horrible story... and which kinda hits close to home... 

i am now dating a guy that owns a pit bull.. the red nose kind... i dunno if there is a difference or not.. i'm not a big fan of that breed to begin with... anyway... we have been dating for alittle over 6 months now and things are going great. My concern is that if things ever do get more serious that i will be worried how things can ever work out with our dogs. I already expressed my feelings about my dogs and not wanting them around his... he has his own house so when i go over... his dog is nice and trainned but i still dont want this dog around my 2 little malts. He has said to me that we can always work things out if things progress between us and lets say i move in his house... he said he has no problem with keeping his pit bull down in the basement. I dont think thats really fair to the dog always keeping him in a basement. He did mention finding him a home... but his pit bull is already 7-8yrs old.

I personally cant just stop dating this guy cause he owns a pit bull... cause honestly we get along great. I guess i shouldnt worry to much unless things become really serious. 

Anyone have suggestions? I already know for a FACT that this pit bull (trainned or not) can NOT be walking around the house with my 2 little babies walking around too... WAY TOO DANGEROUS. :brownbag:


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## jadey (Nov 2, 2006)

thanks for sharing this with us, poor savannah :smcry: I have always heard that pitbulls are gentle dogs, and how it all depends on their owners. But after reading about Savannah's story I am wrong.


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## Aarianne (Jul 22, 2005)

It's a very sad story, but it's also encouraging to see people bringing up the negative side of pit bulls. These days it seems that everywhere you turn (at least around here) there's so much opposition to breed specific legislation and support for pit bulls and staffies and not enough (imo) people speaking out against them.

Generally, most dog breeds just aren't capable of what pit bulls or staffies are due to their unusually strong jaws, determination to win, and tendency to get fired up easily and quickly. It's such a lethal combination considering the unpredictable nature of dogs in general. 

The argument that it's bad owners--not bad dogs that cause the problems is tired. We've all heard of plenty of cases where owners were being quite responsible and the dog lashed out unexpectedly--whether it be at another dog or maiming someone. This is usually the case with pit bulls/staffies because once they've attacked, they're put down. It's no yorkie nip! So naturally the attacks are usually unexpected, from a pet that before the incident was a sweet little angel according to the owner. It's also pretty much impossible to police dog owners enough so that only very responsible individuals can own pit bulls. They will always end up in the hands of some irresponsible individuals... and unfortunately will probably always be sought to be exploited by sociopaths, etc., which saddens me as well. (Btw, my comment is not directed at you Jadey... it's just an argument that is used a lot by pit bull/staffie supporters that has always frustrated me.)


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

:w00t: :smmadder: :new_shocked: :smcry:


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## Boobookit (Dec 3, 2005)

> It's a very sad story, but it's also encouraging to see people bringing up the negative side of pit bulls. These days it seems that everywhere you turn (at least around here) there's so much opposition to breed specific legislation and support for pit bulls and staffies and not enough (imo) people speaking out against them.
> 
> Generally, most dog breeds just aren't capable of what pit bulls or staffies are due to their unusually strong jaws, determination to win, and tendency to get fired up easily and quickly. It's such a lethal combination considering the unpredictable nature of dogs in general.
> 
> The argument that it's bad owners--not bad dogs that cause the problems is tired. We've all heard of plenty of cases where owners were being quite responsible and the dog lashed out unexpectedly--whether it be at another dog or maiming someone. This is usually the case with pit bulls/staffies because once they've attacked, they're put down. It's no yorkie nip! So naturally the attacks are usually unexpected, from a pet that before the incident was a sweet little angel according to the owner. It's also pretty much impossible to police dog owners enough so that only very responsible individuals can own pit bulls. They will always end up in the hands of some irresponsible individuals... and unfortunately will probably always be sought to be exploited by sociopaths, etc., which saddens me as well. (Btw, my comment is not directed at you Jadey... it's just an argument that is used a lot by pit bull/staffie supporters that has always frustrated me.)[/B]


*I absolutely agree with you. The woman from the animl control told my friend while they were standing there that she had so many horror stories that she could tell her but wouldn't because she could see that she (my friend) was so devestated over the loss of Savannah.
*
*But she did say that all breeds were bred with a purpose. the working class, the herding class, the toy class (we all know Maltese were bred to sit in the laps of Queens!!) but that the pits were bred solely for the "sport." The blood that courses through them was bred to kill and no matter how much training they have they have the instinct for blood, to kill.
*
*The neighbor across the way from me has a pit as I stated in the initial thread and when I see him or her walking him and I have one of the boys, I come inside. As soon as they open the door the dog is pulling them outside and down the stairs and is in full control. He is a strong, large, young dog and seems very friendly but also scary. They are a young couple, never home and the dog is left unsupervised for long hours. The window is left open with just the screen and he is always peeking out the window. 

I am so afraid that one day he will get loose and go through that screen. Because of this, I do not walk both of the boys at the same time anymore unless hubby is with me and he takes one and I take the other....If not then I walk one at a time.

A pit is bad enough, but an untrained one is a time bomb waiting to go off. It scares me.

Marie & the Boys
*


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

Very sad story! :smcry: I am not a fan of pit bulls.


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

Very scary indeed. I have had 3 bad incidents with pitbulls myself. I'm flat out scared of them now and would never trust one. I know people that love them dearly. It's sad all the way around.


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

wow. just wow. i personally see any breed(especially large breeds) as having the potential to harm a person or animal. 

Ive know a malamute that formed a dog pack from the local strays and brought down four calves.

As a groomer on a DAILY basis I am snapped at, clawed at, and lunged at by dogs of all sizes. 

Ive seen a Rat Terrier bite its OWN owner when she went to go pick the dog up.

Some people in my salon are always like "oh watch out for those Shih Tzus, they are mean suckers", "Those scotties are craaaazy", or "dachshunds hate having their nails done". I disagree with them. It is how they are bred, raised, and managed. 

Alot of complaints I hear in the big dog world is that some owners allow there small dogs to run lose and wild. And then they think its "cute" when their dog snaps at someone or another dog. Its NOT cute. I understand that these dogs are small and cannot inflict as much damage(although one girl we had to sent to the hospital when a Pek. bite and latch onto her finger).....but my point is that these owners are only asking for trouble when their dog approaches a larger dog in a yappy aggressive manner. (what do they call it...small dog syndrome?) Now I am NOT trying to say that all small dog owner are like this....but its not untrue.

The story is very sad...however dogs are dogs...not machines. 

Some are saying that Pit Bulls will lash out randomly. Any dog can and will, provoked or unprovoked. It just that Pit Bulls are naturally strong dogs and will inflict damage...so will any large breed. 

A common mistake that people make, bully lovers included, is assuming that its how you raise them that determines if the dog will be "nice". It is 30% environmetn, and 70% genetics. People need to realize that these dogs are programed to be dog aggressive. It will ALWAYS be there. It is management that prevents any incidents like these from occuring. A Pit Bull can be trained to be tolerant of other dogs, but not trusted alone with another dog. 

Breeds that were meant for guarding...Mastiffs, Rotties, GSD's, ect. They are genetically wired to be protective of their home and their owners. They are naturally reserved around strangers. (The AKC standards decribe alot of breeds like that). That would be human aggression. However they can be "managed" or trained....but I would NEVER trust A Rottie or GSD to NOT guard his home. Its breed nature. 

Of course there are exceptions on a dog by dog bases.

Not everybody is responsible enough to own a pit bull. A responsible Pit Bull owner, no a responsible DOG owner, would NEVER allow there dog to be put in a situation where an accident may occur....such as taking a dog aggressive dog to Petsmart. 95% of accidents are the fault of the owner.

Ive owned a bully for about 3 years. Lived with a toy fox terrier for 1.5 years and now I have 3 pit bulls and a Maltese. A month ago I had four pit bulls (one was a foster).

DO I trust my dogs out alone? Nope. But I am responsible enough to take measures and prevent ANY problems. I crate rotate, I kennel train, I spay/neuter, I supervise.

ugh...this is frustrating. Im not trying to change minds but I want some to see the other side. These are my heart breed like the Maltese is no doubt all of yours....and I understand some of your fears. I understand that everyone has experiences with Pit Bulls good or bad. But once again...dogs are dogs...they are not machines...they act on instinct. They are incapable of being evil. 

www.atts.org


American Pit Bull Terrier
Out of 542, 456 passed. thats 84.1%

American Staffordshire Terrier
Out of 521 437 passed thats 83.9%




Golden Retr.
Out of 687 576 passed 83.8%

Labrador Retr.
91.5%

Maltese 83.3% (very few Maltese took the test VERY FEW)

Rott. 
Out of a million rotties that tested 82.7% passed

Yorkshire Terrier 81.1%





ugh im tired. Have a good night. None of this was meant to offend anyone.


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

> this is a horrible story... and which kinda hits close to home...
> 
> i am now dating a guy that owns a pit bull.. the red nose kind... i dunno if there is a difference or not.. i'm not a big fan of that breed to begin with... anyway... we have been dating for alittle over 6 months now and things are going great. My concern is that if things ever do get more serious that i will be worried how things can ever work out with our dogs. I already expressed my feelings about my dogs and not wanting them around his... he has his own house so when i go over... his dog is nice and trainned but i still dont want this dog around my 2 little malts. He has said to me that we can always work things out if things progress between us and lets say i move in his house... he said he has no problem with keeping his pit bull down in the basement. I dont think thats really fair to the dog always keeping him in a basement. He did mention finding him a home... but his pit bull is already 7-8yrs old.
> 
> ...



crate and rotate


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

> wow. just wow. i personally see any breed(especially large breeds) as having the potential to harm a person or animal.
> 
> Ive know a malamute that formed a dog pack from the local strays and brought down four calves.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your post very much and understand everything you are saying. I can tell from your post that you are very passionate about them and i sincerely think you should be commended for being such a responsible owner and animal lover. 
Unfortunately I think the issue is that a lot of people probably shouldn't be pit bull owners, they are not a breed for just anyone. A lot of pit owners are probably not educated about things like they should be, nor devoted to the supervision/training and responsible ownership of a pit. (Atleast not in the situations that i've been involved in.) That is what is scary.


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

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Agreed. A million percent. What is sad is that responsible owners are ridiculously far and few in between.

I think there should be rules to apply to and ENFORCE in owning and breeding breeds like Bullies, Dobies, Rotties, GSD. It wont eliminate problems but will help tremendously.

Banning is not a solution. Its like banning guns. You are only keeping the "good" people from owning them with breed bans. Criminals and "ganstas" are going to find a way to get one regardless.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

> A common mistake that people make, bully lovers included, is assuming that its how you raise them that determines if the dog will be "nice". It is 30% environmetn, and 70% genetics. People need to realize that these dogs are programed to be dog aggressive. It will ALWAYS be there. It is management that prevents any incidents like these from occuring. A Pit Bull can be trained to be tolerant of other dogs, but not trusted alone with another dog.
> 
> Ive owned a bully for about 3 years. Lived with a toy fox terrier for 1.5 years and now I have 3 pit bulls and a Maltese. A month ago I had four pit bulls (one was a foster).
> 
> DO I trust my dogs out alone? Nope. But I am responsible enough to take measures and prevent ANY problems. I crate rotate, I kennel train, I spay/neuter, I supervise.[/B]


I do appreciate your opinion and the fact that you have taken time to learn the breed, understand their nature, and how to be a responsible owner. However, you yourself state that they can not be trusted. You would neve leave them alone with another dog. And you state you do not trust your dogs out alone. That being said, it only takes a split second for something horrible to happen. No matter how careful you are, how responsible you are, we are human and can not keep all things at all times under control. Accidents happen. That being said, I would really recommend you reconsider which breeds you wish to house under the same roof. I don't mean to offend you or anyone else, just want you to think about the dynamics of your fur family. We all want to protect our children, furry and non-furry. We can't eliminate all potential danger. So we do our best to make our homes as safe as possible by "child proofing".


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

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what does that mean?


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> wow. just wow. i personally see any breed(especially large breeds) as having the potential to harm a person or animal.
> 
> . . . . .[/B]


Oh, I think your post was wonderful. Very, very well stated!! As you alluded to, when a small dog bites or tries to be aggressive the amount of damage they can inflect is somewhat limited. When a very muscular and strong large dog does the same thing, the results can be tragic


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

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I would never trust a Malamute, or Beagle, or large or small Terrier breed around my Maltese either. These breeds have a high prey drive. They are known to attack and kill small animals. This is instict. Yes, these dogs can be raised with small animals but should NEVER be trusted alone with them. It is the SAME thing when it comes to owning Bullies. 

I will never reconsider owning these dogs.

And as I said it before any dog can turn at any moment. These are dogs, not machines. Many Spaniels have been know to become aggressive for no reason at all...Its called Springer Rage syndrome or Rage syndrome. It is not for spaniels specifically either.

check it out http://www.essfta.org/Health_Research/aggression.htm

My point is that it is ANY ONE BREED that can turn. Just some breeds are more powerful than others. 

And a note about Pit Bills and children. Back when dog fighting was legal, in a dog fighting ring a Pit Bull must be naturally human friendly. The fighting Pit was often looked over by the other Pit Bulls owner in order to check for illegal items(such as spices to deter a dog from latching onto another).

Also, during a Pit fight it was often necessary for someone to pick up and pry apart the Pit Bulls when an obvious loser was determined. These dogs were expected to distinguish between foe and enemy, and was NEVER to lash out at the person handling them. Not many breeds can boast this. Not that I supposrt dog fighting but it is history that needs to be noted.

These dogs are naturally human friendly. They are suppose to have an love for people and an affinity for children. Alot of figting pit bulls were also family dogs. 

IF there was a Pit Bull that did bite a person, that dog never made it into the gene pool.

However, in recent society, "thugs" and gansters have been mixing this breed to guarding type dogs such as the Mastiff to create a larger more human aggressive "pit bull". (Pit bulls are truly suppose to be about 45lbs at the most.)This is why I thing ownership and breeding should be something that is monitered closely...but to try and eliminate the breed entirely. Im sorry, that is not a solution. The "bad" people will still get their hands on them and destroy the breed even more. We need responsible owners and we NEED responsible breeders.

I will not even consider changing my breed of choice as some here will probably will not even consider changing their minds about the pit bull. However, I just want to express my side. I am not being closed minded and I am not trying to say my dogs are perfect but I understand my breed of choice's nature. (not many Bully owners do....heck not many breed owners understand their dogs nature. Ive been ask by someone who owns a Fox Terrier why he digs....and how he can stop it. Sorry my friend only constant supervision and distraction can deter breed nature)

I dont think it is possible to point fingers at this breed...

If you do some research you will find that over the years certain breeds have been targeted by the media for human or dog aggression. At one time it was the Doberman being persecuted, the Rottie, even Great Danes....now its Pit Bulls. Given, they have had it the worst. But take a look at my American Temperament Testing Society link I gave. The Pit Bull has ranked very high. 

I also want to note, NO BREED of dog should be left alone with children, for both of their sakes. It only takes a split second for ANYTHING to happen. For a dog of any breed to bite a child or a child to fall or drop a small dog. Its responsible dog ownership for every single breed out there.

Thanks for reading.


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

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Thank you very much. I was very scared of being attacked. I truly understand why people see my dogs this way. But feel I really needed to share the other side!


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

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When your two are out, perhaps he can kennel his dog. And vice versa. There really needs to be an agreement between both of you and all dogs should be given equal attention in a one household.

If allowed out together they need to be supervised at ALL times. Dont even leave them to use the restroom. But I would say to keep them seperate regardless. This is not for Pit Bull owners only. It should be the same for breeds with high prey drive or any large breed with a small dog or child.


Honestly, most dogs in multiple households should never be left alone by themselves. A fight can happen over a toy, a bone, food, sleeping space. No matter that breed and how long they have been together. (Dogs that have grown up together have been know to fight each other too. Sometimes it may be years before something does occur. Sometimes it never does. But these are dogs, they are pack animals...they react on instinct. They are not like brothers and sisters...they are animals living in a human world.)

I hope that helps.


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

My deepest apologies for so many post but I swear this is my final double, triple, quad post!

I wanted to add. Pit Bulls are know for having a high pain tolerance. This is a great thing when it come to children. They are know to handle kids pulling ears and tails and rough handling without a problem. (in these cases the parents need to take a look at their parenting skills hahaha!)

I just want to explain a little of my history.

Since I was REALLY little Ive been facinated with the Pit Bull. The looks, the demeanor, the muscle, the happy go lucky attitude! I never owned one until about three years ago though.

Well, I grew up not so wealthy. My Dad was an alcoholic. My parents were not together, never really had been. I can now look back and call myself trailor trash. Its embarassing. I feel strange telling it, but in order to express my opinion about my breed and dogs in general I think I should.

My Dad was one of those...oh dogs are outside animals, they have no part in the family home, who cares about them. We had lots of mutts. Dogs that he happened upon. None of them had their shots, no vet care, poor diet, ect. Ol' Roy was his pick. Half the time he didnt even bother to keep them contained in the yard. We all paid attention to them, they were really friendly dogs to us(not so much to most strangers and other dogs), but they were not cared for properly. What did I know, I was like 11? I loved dogs, and I researched my life away about them. I tried to convince my Dad to take care of our dogs, but that was useless.

The ones I remember most were Lady, Girl, and Cowboy. Two Golden Retr. mixes and one Blue Heeler cross. I saw them fight everyday. Mainly it was over food. I would see one give the other the stink eye and BAM. I saw them attack other dogs and nip at several people.


All were unaltered. We regularly had puppies around. Ive seen one of the Mommas kill and eat her puppy. Ive seen the other puppies kill and eat one of their sibling. I know I am so sorry to be telling you all this. I honestly can never forget these things and wish I never had seen them. 

*What I am trying to say is, what happened with just these three dogs out of countless others my Dad had owned was not even closely breed related. It was irresponsible dog ownership. *

The ONLY good thing that came of this is that I now know better. Ive made something of myself. I am 20 years old. I bought my first house, brand new, one year ago. I own my own cars and I have a steady job, no I have a career. And I have my dogs. I am young right now and realize that there are many on here with alot more experience and knowledge than I have but I can honestly say I have been through so much ridiculous stuff and seen so much that I was forced to grow up young. And I think I am knowledgable enough to a degree to voice my opinion and share my experiences with others on here in an effort to share my views on the breed.

I have been researching this breed for YEARS before I got one. But still not enough to realize the difference between breeders. I bought my first Pit Bull from the side of the road. He was 8 wks old and 2.2lbs. He was a sick puppy. I spent about 1500 the next week saving his life. He was malnurished, full of worms, and lacking so much blood he need two blood transfusion. Hes a fighter though. He survived. From him I learned to NEVER EVER AGAIN support a BYB. All of the ones I have had after him have been rescue and eventually I will purchase my first show American Staffordhsire Terrier, but I will continue to be involve in rescue.

I rescue my second Pittie. 

I had them about two years before I got Skwooshee. 

A little after I got him, I happened upon a stray Pit Bull. I took him in, gave him vet care, had him neutered and found him a great home. I still see him about once a week.

My newest and last permanent addition was dumped off at my work. 

I recently took in another foster but he quickly took a home....(his neuter is scheduled for next Tuesday)

I regularly use my oldest Pit Bull for puppy socialization. He has regular paydates with one Maltese, four Pit Bull puppies, one adult Pittie, one adult American Bulldog, one Bull Terrier puppy, a great dane and a Great Pyr. 

I have had Pit Bulls for three years and have NEVER ONCE had a fight between my dog and never ONCE had a fight between my dogs and other dogs. 

However, I have been attacked my another Pit Bull, a Miniture Pincher, and a Golden Retr. attack my female Pittie. All of these times my dogs were on leash and the other dog was loose. None of these resulted in a fight because I for one have my dogs trained and also will do everything in my power to prevent a dog from attacking mine even if it mean I get bite or maimed. Because in the end the blame is put on my dog. 

As far as it goes with people, I have no worries. Of course I moniter my dogs around strangers and children...but I have NEVER had a problem. My dogs are around children all the time (my fiance has a trillion nephews...haha). They meet new people everyweek. And I am quite positive that Bullet(the only dog I can trust not to eat my house if left out alone) will invite a potential robber in, make him tea, and show him where the stash of money is.

I am not an exception. There ARE some people out there who are responsible like me. As for others we need to educate them on responsible ownership. Breed banning will do NO good.

I am so sorry if this was too much info. But here is my passion. Have a good night.


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## angel's mom (Feb 14, 2007)

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You write very well. Your post was informative and done in such a way as to explain your position and why you feel the way you do. I'm not sure you changed my mind, but you did make some very interesting points. And, in my opinion, you did it in such a way that I don't see how any one could take offense at it. For those reasons, I applaud you.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

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I wasn't suggesting you reconsider your breed of choice, obviously you adore the Pit Bull breed. My point was, and you yourself have stated several times, is that people in general need to consider the breeds they choose to have together in the same family, under the same roof. Like you said, you would not trust a Malamute, Beagle or Terrier around your Malt either, so this includes your Pit Bull. So why choose to have those 2 breeds together in your house? I respect your opinion and you have gone to great lengths to educate yourself, however you have not changed my mind about Pit Bulls. Unfortunately, as you yourself have stated several times, they have been bred for a certain nature...it's in their blood. Therefore, I would never recommend having a Pit Bull and any toy dog as pets together in the same family/household. Just as I would never recommend having a toy dog or other breeds that are bred to have a high prey drive. Too much chance of an accident happening. Accidents happen no matter how careful and knowledgable you are. So why increase the odds instead of decreasing the odds. JMO. Please do not feel attacked. I wish more people who love the Pit bull breed and have taken the time to learn their nature and how to train them would help to educate those who want the breed just for the status/image. You are right, irresponsible owners have done a lot of damage to the breed's reputation. However, part of their bad reputation is unfortunately due to what they have been bred to be like. You will never change my mind on this particular subject. I feel it irresponisble to have certain breeds together in the same house/family. And I am sure part of my reasoning is due to three seperate instance where I have seen an agreesive breed of dog attack for no apparant reason. Not all of which were Pit Bulls, but definetly the most violent was with a Pit Bull.


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

Let me clarify,my Pitties and Skwooshee do not run together. Never is he on the floor with them. 

Everyone once in a while I will have Bullet out and and they will play but will be short and supervised. Im am usually on the ground next to them.

Bullet is very gentle with him. He is usually on his back or side.

Pit Bulls are dogs, they do have body language that can be read. Yes, I agree that any dog can snap without a sign. But that is a risk for ANY breed out there. But I am perfectly capable of supervising. Yes, Ive only had Skwooshee for about 9 months, but my dogs have also grown up with a 6lb Toy Fox Terrier since they were puppies. I am not trying to say that for sure, nothing will happen but Ill always moniter them close enough to prevent ANY situation form occuring. We have set rules in our house that EVERYONE follows. 

It is not completely unheard of to responsibly own these breeds and small dogs, and cats, and to have children.

Saying that these two breeds cannot live together under the same roof is like saying you should not have children and small dogs in the same house. There always a risk. At least with my dogs they can be kenneled! 

And I repeat Pit Bulls are dogs first, and Pit Bulls second. They are pack animals as well. They can enjoy the comany of other dogs. They just require more responsibility to own.

You will always hear the stories and incidents but there ARE responsible owners out there that do own multiple animals and Pit BUlls. It is just like owning any breed and multiple animals. There is always a chance, its just that with Pit Bulls it will end up in the media. But MORE OFTEN THAN not it is the owner at fault. 

Pitures taken with permission.

and older Pittie













































a foster goat!!!









I hope that all made sense....kinda hard when trying ot get ready for work ...hahaha!!!

Im not trying to change minds. But its nice to hear both opinions.
Kelli


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

> *Hi All,
> 
> While I KNOW that there are a lot of people who have, love and trust Pit Bulls but we still need to know the dangers of what they are capable of doing and how quickly they move....I just wanted to share this story because it hit close to home.
> 
> ...


That is very sad. I don't like pitbulls and try to avoid them.


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## Boobookit (Dec 3, 2005)

*As I stated in my original thread, I DO understand that many people love pit bulls and that is fine. All I was trying to do is relay my story so that we can be extra careful with and for our babies, and ourselves.

But I also want to clarify that the dog, Nina, WAS bred well, she (my friend) KNOWS the breeder and they are NOT a BYB. Also, this pit WAS trained and my friend IS a responsible owner. Given that, it IS in their blood to fight and attack and a smaller animal IS prey to a pit. I am not just signaling out pits, but that happened to be the breed that did the attacking and it attacked another LARGER breed and killed it.

I just can't fathom having a dog that I have to watch constantly so that it doesn't hurt another pet, I would rather have two that get along so there is no chance of blood shed or worse, death.

I don't know about other states but here in Jersey if you own a pit, a dobie or a rottie you have to tell them and your homeowners insurance costs a lot more. Also, some homeowners insurances will NOT insure you if you own one of those breeds.

Again, no disrespect for those of you who own/love the breed, I am just not one of them and never will be.

Marie & the (we get along, Mommy) Boys

*


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

> My deepest apologies for so many post but I swear this is my final double, triple, quad post!
> 
> I wanted to add. Pit Bulls are know for having a high pain tolerance. This is a great thing when it come to children. They are know to handle kids pulling ears and tails and rough handling without a problem. (in these cases the parents need to take a look at their parenting skills hahaha!)
> 
> ...


I am surprised to read that you are only 20 -- your posts are so well written. I am 29 (okay, much more closer to 30 than I would like) and I am not sure I have your maturity. 

My little maltese was attacked a few years ago by a mixed breed large dog walking around without a leash. A college student just got this dog from a pound and they apparently told her he was fine off leash. Her dog ran up to Miko (my dog), picked him up the by skin on his neck and shook him around a few times. I think my husband had to kick this dog to let Miko ago (I was in a daze -- it all happened so fast). Miko had a few broken ribs and partially collapsed lung but made it out okay in the long run. I made this girl pay for the damages and the high vet bill, even though we do have pet insurance and are financially stable. We shortly moved away from that neighborhood so I didn't pursue more action. I also just didn't have the time or energy -- I was just glad Miko was fine in the long run as it could have been much worse. What's my point? I am not sure. Obviously this is an example of a poor dog owner judgement and perhaps unresponsible dog pound. How do I feel about large dogs or pit bulls? Honestly, I have always been scared of them. Bad past experiences have definitely contributed and we are all products of our environment to some degree. I could never own a pit bull -- I don't have the dedication to training them or the responsibility it takes. I don't have the passion to argue that no one should own them.

You definitely sound like a responsible dog owner -- kudos to you. It also sounds as though you have made great progress in your life and congrats on that.


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

> *As I stated in my original thread, I DO understand that many people love pit bulls and that is fine. All I was trying to do is relay my story so that we can be extra careful with and for our babies, and ourselves.
> 
> But I also want to clarify that the dog, Nina, WAS bred well, she (my friend) KNOWS the breeder and they are NOT a BYB. Also, this pit WAS trained and my friend IS a responsible owner. Given that, it IS in their blood to fight and attack and a smaller animal IS prey to a pit. I am not just signaling out pits, but that happened to be the breed that did the attacking and it attacked another LARGER breed and killed it.
> 
> ...


I am not angry in the least bit that this was posted, I completely understand. But like I said, I really felt I needed to say something.

I understand why people are afraid of them and I understand why some people dont understand how someone can even own this breed with all the added responsiblity. Just be thankful that there ARE reponsible owners out there who are willing to. I personally LOVE every part of owning this breed. 

And I myself cannot see how some people can own cocker spaniels(springer rage syndrome, the incontinence, the nervous energy....do you see where Im going with this? Not all cockers are like this but as a groomer I see that FREQUENTLY!!!!!...haha!!! But there are people out there that do own them....and thats great!)


Basically, all I am trying to say in all my posts is that anything can happen with any breed type. It is a risk someone takes when they aquire a breed, be it a Labrador Retr., a Yorkshire, or a Pit Bull type breed. 

It is up to the person getting these dogs to do the proper research on their breed of choice. 

Someone who gets the Pit Bull need to understand the breed's history and the breeds nature. Now, just like in any breed there are going to be dogs that do not have much of the breed's described nature. Some Labradors do not like to "fetch", some GSDs are meek and may not guard, and some Pit Bulls are more dog aggressive than others. Alot of it is on a dog by dog basis. But each breed does have its tendencies, or its genetic makeup that determines the dogs nature. (although this I already knew, I didnt know how to exactly express it.....so I have had a little help and asked about different breed natures!)

And yes, even if the dogs came from a good breeder and the dog is trained there will be a risk. It just so happens that this breed is very powerful and can inflict alot of damage. But the same goes for most large breeds. 

There are always going to be incident, Pit Bull related or not. Thats something any dog owner needs to understand. We just need to do our best to prevent accidents from happening. Thats all we can do. 

If I decide to have a child, I will do my best to keep a toddler from harming Skwooshee(who has topped out at a whopping 4.3lbs). I will do everything a responsible dog owner and parent can do, BUT there is ALWAYS A RISK! But does that mean I should not have children or should I find a home for Skwooshee if I did have a child?


I and many others can share countless stories of dog fighting or dogs attacking humans that are not even Pit Bull related. Its just a dog thing. 

There is a big stereotype over this breed. It doesn't help that too many people with the wrong intentions end up with these dogs. AND alot of people who dont quite understand the Pit Bulls nature end up with these dogs and make a mistake. Sometimes its the owner at fault and alot of times it is another dogs that may have "started it" and unfortunately for them, just because their dog is a Pit Bull, the pit bull is to BLAME regardless and EVERYONE IS GOING TO HEAR ABOUT IT. That is why we should do our best to educate rather than to completely eliminate the breed. Ill say it one last time. Its not a solution. 

So of course, when I see "Pit Bulls Arent Sweet" of course I have to say something. I am so sad to hear something like that happen, but I feel that these cases should be judged on a case by case basis. Some bad thing may have happened, involving Pit Bulls or not, but how many millions of Pit Bulls out there that are in homes and incidents DONT happen. Same with any breed. Just a risk. 

I really am sorry for what happened and I really do appreciate the members on here reading and respecting(with or without agreeing with me) what I have to say, regardless of my age. Thanks so very much.


Id like to share more pics of Pitties and other animals living and that HAVE lived together. I will add them to my Pit Bull thread in the Picture section if anyone would like to take a look.

Thanks again.


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

> I am surprised to read that you are only 20 -- your posts are so well written. I am 29 (okay, much more closer to 30 than I would like) and I am not sure I have your maturity.
> 
> My little maltese was attacked a few years ago by a mixed breed large dog walking around without a leash. A college student just got this dog from a pound and they apparently told her he was fine off leash. Her dog ran up to Miko (my dog), picked him up the by skin on his neck and shook him around a few times. I think my husband had to kick this dog to let Miko ago (I was in a daze -- it all happened so fast). Miko had a few broken ribs and partially collapsed lung but made it out okay in the long run. I made this girl pay for the damages and the high vet bill, even though we do have pet insurance and are financially stable. We shortly moved away from that neighborhood so I didn't pursue more action. I also just didn't have the time or energy -- I was just glad Miko was fine in the long run as it could have been much worse. What's my point? I am not sure. Obviously this is an example of a poor dog owner judgement and perhaps unresponsible dog pound. How do I feel about large dogs or pit bulls? Honestly, I have always been scared of them. Bad past experiences have definitely contributed and we are all products of our environment to some degree. I could never own a pit bull -- I don't have the dedication to training them or the responsibility it takes. I don't have the passion to argue that no one should own them.
> 
> You definitely sound like a responsible dog owner -- kudos to you. It also sounds as though you have made great progress in your life and congrats on that.[/B]


Thank you very much for respecting my opinion. 

I am so sorry that happened to Miko. I am glad he made it in the end though! 

We are fortunate enough to have SOME dedicated owners whose passion is for this breed. I honestly dont know a possible/workable solution for situations like these. I just DO know that elimination isnt one. 

Until then and beyond I pretty much dedicate my life to them.


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

> I don't know about other states but here in Jersey if you own a pit, a dobie or a rottie you have to tell them and your homeowners insurance costs a lot more. Also, some homeowners insurances will NOT insure you if you own one of those breeds.[/B]



I am not familiar with Jersey but I was informed that New Jersey has a state law that says they are NOT allowed to pass breed specific legislation. ( you can find that at http:/www.understand-a-bull.com)


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## Boobookit (Dec 3, 2005)

*No, I understand what you mean and I am not upset at all. I respect that you own and love the breed and there are absolutely no hard feelings. But there IS a restriction here in New Jersey, but each county is different. If you look at that chart, take for instance Millville, there is a restriction and some of the other counties are questionable, not confirmed. I live in Monmouth County and there IS a restriction here as my brother in law and sister have a Doberman and their homeowners insurance company dropped them because of the dog and told them so. So the homeowners insurance that they have now they did not tell them that they have the dog.

Which, to me is a bad decision because they are NOT responsible dobie owners and the dog is not trained and vicious. I will not go to their house at all because of the dog. I went there once and saw it try to attack their 12 year old son's friend and their answer to that was because the boy moved too fast in front of her..... :blink: 

So they had the friend go in the house with her son, we were sitting outside, and stay inside away from the dog????? :smilie_tischkante: :smilie_tischkante: 

But the dog has gotten worse and I am not taking the chance of be bitten. So yes, they are bad owners and it is a shame.

So I fully understand about knowing the breed and thorough training. As far as my friend, she knows the breed, she trained, and she knows the breeder personally, but unfortunately something went horribly wrong that day. She has no idea what made the dog turn the way she did and she will never know because the dog was labeled a killer and put down.

Good luck to you and all your furbabies.*


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## Critterkrazy (Jan 17, 2007)

EDIT: I should have read the last posts. Marie, I just want to make sure you know I am not attacking your personal feelings. The point I am trying to make in my long winded round about way is that dogs will dogs and will do what they have to protect themselves from danger.

I normally wouldn't get involved in a thread like this but I am really curious why/how it was determined that it was all Nina's fault. Marie, you said in your original post that the Dobie was resting in a hole and your friend was in front of the Pit. She couldn't possibly have seen what was happening behind her. The Pit may have just been walking normally following behind her. How can the vet assume that the Pit was stalking her to attack. I personally find that very hard to believe. The Dobie was older, 9 I think you said. Maybe the Dobie was having a brain fizzle. Maybe the Dobie was in a bad mood that day. There are alot of maybe's one could come up with but no one will ever know because only your friend was present and she couldn't see behind her. The unfortunate part is that it was an unequal match. Pits have a very strong jaw which is what does the damage. A Dobie can do the same damage it just takes longer. What if your friend had a smaller dog instead of the Pit who was following behind her when the Dobie jumped into the scene for whatever reason she did. I shutter to think what would have happened to that little dog. My heart goes out to your friend for the loss of her Dobie but also because she lost Nina who was probably a very loving and devoted dog. 

I want to know why we don't hear about all the other "normal" dog attacks like we do the "Bully" breed attacks. Just a couple weeks ago we had a little 3 year old girl climb over the homes fence and fall into the neighbors yard. The dog, a lab mix, bit her neck, piercing her juggular vein. The little girl lost alot of blood but survived. I heard about it the day it happened and again when she was released from the hospital. I never even heard if the dog was put down for attacking her. But then also last month, a four year old little girl was supposedly attacked by the families Pit who adored the little girl. The little girl was outside unattended so noone knows what really happened to cause it. This was on the news for a good 2 weeks and the dog was put down immediately. What makes the 2 attacks any different from each other? Is it because in the one incident the little girl lived or is just because the one was a Pit Bull?

I used to be a groomer and have been bit many times. I can honestly say, I have never been bit by a Pit and I have very few noticable scars. I do have some nerve damage in my right thumb because of a Wheaten Terrier bite though. I managed to put my hand up in time or it would have been my face he attached himself to.

I'm done now. I just needed to vent a bit. Thanks for listening.


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

> EDIT: I should have read the last posts. Marie, I just want to make sure you know I am not attacking your personal feelings. The point I am trying to make in my long winded round about way is that dogs will dogs and will do what they have to protect themselves from danger.
> 
> I normally wouldn't get involved in a thread like this but I am really curious why/how it was determined that it was all Nina's fault. Marie, you said in your original post that the Dobie was resting in a hole and your friend was in front of the Pit. She couldn't possibly have seen what was happening behind her. The Pit may have just been walking normally following behind her. How can the vet assume that the Pit was stalking her to attack. I personally find that very hard to believe. The Dobie was older, 9 I think you said. Maybe the Dobie was having a brain fizzle. Maybe the Dobie was in a bad mood that day. There are alot of maybe's one could come up with but no one will ever know because only your friend was present and she couldn't see behind her. The unfortunate part is that it was an unequal match. Pits have a very strong jaw which is what does the damage. A Dobie can do the same damage it just takes longer. What if your friend had a smaller dog instead of the Pit who was following behind her when the Dobie jumped into the scene for whatever reason she did. I shutter to think what would have happened to that little dog. My heart goes out to your friend for the loss of her Dobie but also because she lost Nina who was probably a very loving and devoted dog.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing. I dont understand the difference between dog attacks either.

I also find that alot of people miss the signs of dog language. All it takes is one stink eye from one dog to another to cause a fight. 

Im glad this never became an arguement or debate. It is great to hear all sides.


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

> *Hi All,
> 
> While I KNOW that there are a lot of people who have, love and trust Pit Bulls but we still need to know the dangers of what they are capable of doing and how quickly they move....I just wanted to share this story because it hit close to home.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing this. Its very sad. I think it is so important to share so people can understand what pit bulls are capable of.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I don't think rotating crating is the answer. What kind of life
is that for a house pet? Personally, I would never house a 
pit and other dogs and children together. The jaw strength
of a pit is just too dangerous.


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

> I don't think rotating crating is the answer. What kind of life
> is that for a house pet? Personally, I would never house a
> pit and other dogs and children together. The jaw strength
> of a pit is just too dangerous.[/B]


Crating is not cruel. My dogs are kenneled when I am not home to supervise. I could leave one out but fear coming home to a house torn up!

Crating is very common. My dogs use them as their dens. I have one crate in the livingroom and two upstairs right next to the bed. They are all right their as part of the family. Even though I can and DO allow all three of my Pits to roam the house as long as I am there I often will kennel two of them, and allow one out for a one on one interaction. Its not so far fetched. 

When they are tired they often go rest in the kennel door wide open. 

THey also get plenty outdoor exercise. They are content. 

That is a solution MANY people use when they have two dogs of ANY breed that do not get along or when they have a dog of any breed that cannot be trusted alone with a household cat. Mostly it applies to big dogs...but I know a few ppl who keenel their small breed dogs as well. Or they may kennel a larger dog and keep the smaller ones loose to prevent accidents from occuring between dogs of vast weigh differences. 

The crate and rotate works fine when used properly. 

The "locking jaw" is a myth that people commonly mistake as truth. These dogs have no more power in their jaws than a Rottie or GSD....it is sheer determination and a tolerance for pain that allows them to grip. 

If you go back and read some of my post, I explained Pit Bulls are noted for their affinity for children. In the dogfighting days the pit bull was REQUIRED to have a tolerance and love for humans so that two fighting Pit BUlls coulded be pryed apart from a fight when a loser was determined and the Pit BUlls were REQUIRED to distinguish between foe and human and NOT lash out at the person handling him. NO other breed can claim this. You can find this by searhcing through any dog fighting history documents. Also, becaus eof the Pit Bulls high pain tolerance, they can withstand children pulling, climbing, and rough housing with them. (not saying allow it...but frankly that is the parents decision, not the dogs) therefor these dogs are great companions in household and children. Another thing that not many breeds can boast.

Just because I own a Maltese doesn't mean I shouldnt have a child, who woukd be perfectly capable of harming and even killing my 4 lb Maltese. As I said before this has all been said in my previous post.


Thank you so very for reading!


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

i meant households WITH children.


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## kcalbat (Mar 13, 2007)

forgot to add. You are right though, it is every one's personal opinion. But I think some assumptions should be addressed. 

Have a good night.


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