# Why is she poo-ing here?!?



## garrettsmom (May 15, 2006)

Winnie is mostly indoor (Wizdog) trained and she will also pee/poo outdoors too in the midst of backyard playtime. She still however (whenever she gets a moment alone to enter my dining room) drop a large load on my area rug. This never occurs when I'm downstairs with her as the central hallway is gated off and the only available access to the DR has a gate......if she's upstairs with me however then decides to roam downstairs to 'visit daddy' in the basement, she has the opportunity obviously to make a pit stop in the other open entryway to the DR. I'm convinced she knows this is 'wrong' because I've led her to the area, pointed to the 'poo' and say her name in a stern voice along with a resounding "NO". I know I've read that dogs don't realize they're doing something wrong unless they're 'caught in the act', but Winne will immediately drop her head down and to the side, looking ashamed and evasive, then runs away. Today I found another surprise in the DR, picked up the poo, & called Winnie to me. As soon as she saw/smelled the poo in my tissued hand she made a beeline downstairs and jumped into daddy's arms. Everytime she poos in the correct spot, ie wizdog, she's thrilled when I notice, pick up the poo then proceeds to do a little dance because she gets a treat.

I can't understand what benefit/pleasure she gets from pooping in the DR when the wiz dog is just two rooms away. She's 1) missing out on the treat, and 2) getting a stern look/yell from her mom.
Yes, I can buy another gate for the second open entryway so she can NEVER enter the room, but I'd rather her just stop doing it. She'll occasionally do the same in the room directly above the DR on the 2nd floor (a den) but I usually keep the door closed. If on an instance I forget and leave it open, she'll poo in there too the first chance she gets. It seems no matter how long she is resticted from the area, the temptation to poo in there is too great even after weeks of non-entering.

Does anyone have a clue WHY she does this when it seems she is aware it's a "no no"........and is there hope of limiting her pooing just to the wiz dog and outside?


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

I don't know why she is doing it but she is "dropping her head and looking ashamed" ... not because she has pooped in the wrong place but because you are not your usual nice self and she can tell you are upset over something. From everything I've read, she doesn't have a clue what you are upset over.

As JMM says.... it is our fault if we give them too much freedom. That seems to be what is happening here. If she isn't fully potty trained then you are best not letting her roam the house by herself.


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

Maybe Winnie doesn't consider those rooms as part of her "den",if she is rarely in them. When I potty train, I gradually introduce each new room one at a time & use it for playtime,napping & feeding or just hanging out. This has always worked for me. Dogs don't like to use their den for potty. A house can seem huge to a small dog. It's possible she can still detect some smell associated with her potty,even though it's been cleaned & will continue to go there if she doesn't consider those rooms as part of her den. Just a thought,as I read about that long ago when learning the dos & don'ts of pottytraining. Try removing the area rug if possible. That's what I had to do with both Boo & Hannah until they were completely pottytrained.


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## garrettsmom (May 15, 2006)

QUOTE (momtoboo @ Sep 26 2009, 12:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=833992


> Maybe Winnie doesn't consider those rooms as part of her "den",if she is rarely in them. When I potty train, I gradually introduce each new room one at a time & use it for playtime,napping & feeding or just hanging out. This has always worked for me. Dogs don't like to use their den for potty. A house can seem huge to a small dog. It's possible she can still detect some smell associated with her potty,even though it's been cleaned & will continue to go there if she doesn't consider those rooms as part of her den. Just a thought,as I read about that long ago when learning the dos & don'ts of pottytraining. Try removing the area rug if possible. That's what I had to do with both Boo & Hannah until they were completely pottytrained.[/B]


Well that logic seems to make sense as she's never been 'introduced' to the DR-it's usually off limits as there's nothing in there except DR furniture and an area rug. What I thought was strange was I removed the area rug from the den upstairs, scrubbed the hardwood beneath, and she still went on the hardwood floor in the same spot where the rug used to be.

I may be way off base, but I still think she's smart enough to realize the difference btw the appropriate place to go, ie wiz dog, vs the DR. If she didn't realize poo-ing in the DR was 'wrong", why wouldn't she run up to a family member, do her "happy after pooping dance" and expect/receive her treat as she does anytime she poops in the acceptable spot?


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

QUOTE (Garrettsmom @ Sep 26 2009, 12:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=833994


> QUOTE (momtoboo @ Sep 26 2009, 12:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=833992





> Maybe Winnie doesn't consider those rooms as part of her "den",if she is rarely in them. When I potty train, I gradually introduce each new room one at a time & use it for playtime,napping & feeding or just hanging out. This has always worked for me. Dogs don't like to use their den for potty. A house can seem huge to a small dog. It's possible she can still detect some smell associated with her potty,even though it's been cleaned & will continue to go there if she doesn't consider those rooms as part of her den. Just a thought,as I read about that long ago when learning the dos & don'ts of pottytraining. Try removing the area rug if possible. That's what I had to do with both Boo & Hannah until they were completely pottytrained.[/B]


Well that logic seems to make sense as she's never been 'introduced' to the DR-it's usually off limits as there's nothing in there except DR furniture and an area rug. What I thought was strange was I removed the area rug from the den upstairs, scrubbed the hardwood beneath, and she still went on the hardwood floor in the same spot where the rug used to be.

I may be way off base, but I still think she's smart enough to realize the difference btw the appropriate place to go, ie wiz dog, vs the DR. If she didn't realize poo-ing in the DR was 'wrong", why wouldn't she run up to a family member, do her "happy after pooping dance" and expect/receive her treat as she does anytime she poops in the acceptable spot?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Hannah does the happy dance too, but only if she poos on her pottypad. If she by chance poos outside,she simply walks away. Boo, who only poos outside in a certain area,comes back inside & "tells me" by staring at the counter where I use to keep his pottytraining treats or stares directly into my eyes & won't move a muscle until I acknowledge that he did a poo. But if he poos somewhere else,say on a walk or outside at a relatives house,he just walks away too. I don't know the reasoning for this, but I'd agree it's smart of them to know when they will get a treat & when they don't.


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## gatiger40 (Jun 7, 2007)

I think you got some good answers, I just had to take a second to thank you for making me laugh until my sides hurt. When I read the line"drop a large load on my area rug" I'm still crying, laughing so hard. OMG that's funny. :smrofl: :smrofl: Mostly because that's something I would say, but I haven't seen it written out before. Thank you.... Now back to the topic at hand....



QUOTE (Garrettsmom @ Sep 26 2009, 12:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=833982


> Winnie is mostly indoor (Wizdog) trained and she will also pee/poo outdoors too in the midst of backyard playtime. She still however (whenever she gets a moment alone to enter my dining room) drop a large load on my area rug. This never occurs when I'm downstairs with her as the central hallway is gated off and the only available access to the DR has a gate......if she's upstairs with me however then decides to roam downstairs to 'visit daddy' in the basement, she has the opportunity obviously to make a pit stop in the other open entryway to the DR. I'm convinced she knows this is 'wrong' because I've led her to the area, pointed to the 'poo' and say her name in a stern voice along with a resounding "NO". I know I've read that dogs don't realize they're doing something wrong unless they're 'caught in the act', but Winne will immediately drop her head down and to the side, looking ashamed and evasive, then runs away. Today I found another surprise in the DR, picked up the poo, & called Winnie to me. As soon as she saw/smelled the poo in my tissued hand she made a beeline downstairs and jumped into daddy's arms. Everytime she poos in the correct spot, ie wizdog, she's thrilled when I notice, pick up the poo then proceeds to do a little dance because she gets a treat.
> 
> I can't understand what benefit/pleasure she gets from pooping in the DR when the wiz dog is just two rooms away. She's 1) missing out on the treat, and 2) getting a stern look/yell from her mom.
> Yes, I can buy another gate for the second open entryway so she can NEVER enter the room, but I'd rather her just stop doing it. She'll occasionally do the same in the room directly above the DR on the 2nd floor (a den) but I usually keep the door closed. If on an instance I forget and leave it open, she'll poo in there too the first chance she gets. It seems no matter how long she is resticted from the area, the temptation to poo in there is too great even after weeks of non-entering.
> ...


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

QUOTE (Garrettsmom @ Sep 26 2009, 11:08 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=833982


> Winnie is mostly indoor (Wizdog) trained and she will also pee/poo outdoors too in the midst of backyard playtime. She still however (whenever she gets a moment alone to enter my dining room) drop a large load on my area rug. This never occurs when I'm downstairs with her as the central hallway is gated off and the only available access to the DR has a gate......if she's upstairs with me however then decides to roam downstairs to 'visit daddy' in the basement, she has the opportunity obviously to make a pit stop in the other open entryway to the DR. I'm convinced she knows this is 'wrong' because I've led her to the area, pointed to the 'poo' and say her name in a stern voice along with a resounding "NO". I know I've read that dogs don't realize they're doing something wrong unless they're 'caught in the act', but Winne will immediately drop her head down and to the side, looking ashamed and evasive, then runs away. Today I found another surprise in the DR, picked up the poo, & called Winnie to me. As soon as she saw/smelled the poo in my tissued hand she made a beeline downstairs and jumped into daddy's arms. Everytime she poos in the correct spot, ie wizdog, she's thrilled when I notice, pick up the poo then proceeds to do a little dance because she gets a treat.[/B]



Corrections only work if they are immediate to the behavior. Your correction later on only makes your dog expect something bad when you go in that room and look unhappy. A correction has to have 3 parts to be effective
1. Immediate to the behavior (you do not have this)
2. Is strong enough the dog recognizes it as a correction
3. Is immediately followed by an opportunity to do the right behavior and be rewarded (you do not have)
So your correction is worthless and changing this behavior. 
Her body language is say thing:
turning away is an appeasement gesture - your dog is trying to calm you down
running away - getting away from the scary behavior mom is doing
running to someone else when you have the poop and expression of the dining room - save me! 
Your body language, face expression, and words when she goes in each place are drastically different. No wonder she dances when you pick it up and are pleased with her behavior and runs when you pick it up and are angry. 


QUOTE (Garrettsmom @ Sep 26 2009, 11:08 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=833982


> I can't understand what benefit/pleasure she gets from pooping in the DR when the wiz dog is just two rooms away. She's 1) missing out on the treat, and 2) getting a stern look/yell from her mom.
> Yes, I can buy another gate for the second open entryway so she can NEVER enter the room, but I'd rather her just stop doing it. She'll occasionally do the same in the room directly above the DR on the 2nd floor (a den) but I usually keep the door closed. If on an instance I forget and leave it open, she'll poo in there too the first chance she gets. It seems no matter how long she is resticted from the area, the temptation to poo in there is too great even after weeks of non-entering.[/B]



Defecating and urinating is a self-rewarding behavior. It feels good to the dog to relieve themselves. That is why it is so important to prevent the behavior because each time she does it, she has already been rewarded when you get there. 
I agree with momtobobo's suggestion of slowly adding this area to her normal romping ground and making it hers by feeding, training, playing in the room. If you aren't there, block it off or crate your dog. When you do get to the area of the room she likes to go on, put a dog bed, her toys, and a water bowl right there. It will help reclaim the space as living space.


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## Dixie's Mama (Mar 19, 2008)

You've already received good advice Janet. I just want to wish you luck. Winnie be a good girl for Mommy honey.


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