# Popping sound



## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

Should I be worried about Cloud's Knee/Leg? I was feeling his hind legs and I notice that both legs or knee (not sure) were making a clicking sound. I haven't checked his front legs yet. He's sleeping now. Anyone else has this problem? I'm assuming it's normal since he's only 10 mos and I dont think he'd have real problems until he got older.







. Can you guys post the name of the joint vitamin thingy again and where you can get it. And is the vitamin you got made for humans or only dogs?


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

oo i think you should go check with your vet...my parents maltese had a genetic defect, her back leg knee was out of the socket and she had to get surgery..i noticed it when she was about one year old and i went to 2 vets and did x-rays and her knee was out of place

i heard that its kinda common for maltese

just to be safe, you should ask your vet about it...


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

When I read your topic...I thought it said "pooping sound"-I was like.."what the heck!?" Then I started reading...and realized... h34r: 
Can you tell I have been reading/grading 100+ essays over what "service to our country mean to me"? My eyes are crossed and my mind is mush!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

That popping sound means Cloud most likely has luxating patellas which is a very common trait in Maltese. You need to have his knees evaluated by your vet who might even refer you to an orthopedic vet depending on how bad they are. Don't be misled by his age. We just had a little dog in one of the rescues who had such bad knees at 18 months of age, he needed surgery on both before he could go to his forever home. It was one of the reasons he was given up by his owner who couldn't afford the thousands of dollars the surgeries cost.

I don't know where you got Cloud, but your breeder should be notified after your vet has diagnosed luxating patellas. Reputable breeders will not breed dogs who will pass this on to their puppies. Unfortunately, many of us purchase puppies from less than reputable breeders or worse, pet shops, and end up with big bills to correct genetic defects.

Hopefully, Cloud's knees won't be bad enough to need surgery, but only a vet can advise you.


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

Man! I just called the vet and they told me to bring him in. I'm not happy. I wanted to bring him in today but my bf said to wait until he comes home to look at it. I hate waiting though! 

We knew about the luxating patellas. We hesitated on getting a Maltese because of it. But sheesh, any dogs can have any problems.

I'm so upset right now. When I first got Cloud, he had a horrible ear infection. He's already had 2 ear infections in 10 mos. (I pluck his ears and clean it all the time!). And now this. I just hope it's minor.


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn_@Oct 26 2004, 12:50 PM
> *
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

You're goofy...


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## mylittlebella (Aug 20, 2004)

I also read it as pooping sound! I'm definitely over stressed!

Sorry to hear about Cloud. Keep us posted.


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## doctorcathy (May 17, 2004)

whenever i hear "popping sound" i keep thinking about my TMJ....that was total killer!! my jaw popped so loud one time that my family heard it over dinner and i started tearing up cuz it hurt sooo much!!



anyway, ellie had that...it went away by the time she was around 9 months old. she doesnt have any problems with her knees...sprite does though.







and sprite never had that popping sound.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I hope it's minor, too. But you are doing the right thing by having the vet evaluate him. Worse case even if they are bad enough to need surgery, by taking care of it early you can hopefully avoid a more complicated and expensive surgery later on, plus avoid having arthritis set in which can cause a whole host of problems on it's own. 

Luxating patellas are not just a "Maltese thing", they are a "little dog" thing in general.

I have had many pets over the years, Lady is my first Maltese. I have never spent so much money on an animal before in my life and I have had horses!!! I find one of the first things we discuss whenever I meet a fellow Malt owner for the first time is how much money we have spent in vet bills!

About the ears, yes, Maltese and other floppy earred dogs like Spanials are prone to ear infections, too. The key is not only keeping them free of hair, but dry, too. I put a couple of drops of a combination of vinegar and alcohol in Lady's ears after her baths, then some ear powder to dry them. She, too, came to me with horrible infections in both ears, but hasn't had any since in 4&1/2 years.


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

I adopted a dog that at 10 months had both hind legs with bad luxation. I watched this show on tv about small dogs having luxating patellas...so, when I got that dog, her name was little muffet, I noticed that when she ran, her hind legs would go up in the air like kicking kind of. So I took her to the vet and they confirmed really bad luxating patellas. Unfortunately I was a college student and could not afford the $2000-$3000 it cost to kind of fix the knees, so I took her back to the no-kill rescue and someone else adopted her that same day (so I felt a bit better).

She was 10 months old and I think she was an attempt at the "tea cup" maltese. She was the reason I started wanting a Maltese. 

Do you notice any lifting of the legs when running?

Oh, and Chanels arms would crack all of the tme, and now they don't anymore. I was really worried about it and went to the vet and they told me that nothing was wrong...so, I will hope for the best for you!

~Elegant


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

DMZ dogs--







that does make me feel a little better







. But when elegant said it costs $2000-$3000, that made the better feeling go away.

Anyway, I might speak to a Dr. tomorrow. I spoke to a receptionist on the phone earlier. I said that I can hear a popping sound from his back legs and she just said to come in. There's this one doctor there that is so freaking awesome. He's so thorough. If he tells me to come in, then I will. We'll see what happens. I really can't afford it, but there's no way I'm giving my child up! Too attached already.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Orthopedic sugery is expensive, $2500 for luxating patellas is about right around here. If you can hear the popping sound yourself, I'd suspect the luxation is pretty significant, but you won't know until you have him evaluated by your vet. At least then you'll know what you are facing and what sort of timetable. 

Do be sure to contact your breeder if Cloud is definately diagnosed with luxating patellas. A good breeder will stand behind the health of her puppies and would never knowingly pass along such a genetic defect. If you got Cloud from a less than reputable breeder or from a puppy mill through a pet shop or broker, it was all about the money and you are SOL so to speak. 

When is your appointment?


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## nataliecmu (Aug 12, 2004)

Good luck at the doctor's. Let us know what happens...


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nataliecmu_@Oct 27 2004, 07:43 AM
> *Good luck at the doctor's. Let us know what happens...
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=13417*


[/QUOTE]


ditto!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Did you take Cloud to the vet? Any updates for us?


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

Not until this afternoon. I hesitated yesterday. I wanted to make sure I wasn't hearing things. And also, I wanted my bf to be there to help me with questions and what not. BBL


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

There is some excellent information on the Bhie Jei Maltese website (it's a good one to bookmark) about luxating patellas:

http://www.bhejei.com/health-patella.htm

I always find it's helpful to do a little research so you know what questions to ask! Hopefully you have a good relationship with your vet and can call back later if you have more questions. Sometimes it's hard to absorb everything during an office visit, especially holding a squirming puppy, and it's hours later (or while you're lying in bed at night!) that all the questions pop into your head!

Bottom line is that your vet will evaluate Cloud's knees and "grade" his luxation. Based on that, you can formulate a plan on how to deal with them.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Just wondering, how did Cloud's appointment go?


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

Hey everybody! Thanks for thinking about my baby. Thanks Elegant for the PM







. I spoke with my favorite vet and he was awesome like always. Usually when Cloud's at the vet, he's happy, but this time he wasnt. I guess it's because he was nuetered but, that was at another vet. Anyway, when Dr. Apple came in, he was excited and scared and was hiding behind my bf and I. That was unusual for him. Dr. Apple sat on the floor and tried to feed him some baby food so Cloud could get use to him so he wouldnt be so stressed out. I'm just trying to let you know how great Dr. Apple was so bear with me







. 

First off, he talked to us about medial luxating patellas before he examined Cloud. He's very thorough. He said he's going to grade his knees from 0-4, four being the worst. The first knee he checked, he said, "Oh yeah, it's a 4." He didn't grade the other knee. He just said it wasn't as bad as the left knee, so I'm assuming it's a 3. 

However, he pretty much told me not to worry for the time being because Cloud isn't in pain. He said I have to watch his weight and that's all I can do. I asked about joint supplement and he said it wouldn't hurt, but it'll be ok if he didn't take it. I'm surprised he said that because he has a grade 4 knee. He said even though it's a grade 4, it doesn't mean it's the worst case scenario. 

He said he's going to call a specialist for me and will call me back in a couple of days. I thought that was nice. I think he wanted to make sure that I didn't have to pay an extra $100 to go see one and they say the same thing as him. 

I really don't know what to feel right now. My bf said for 34 bucks, Dr. Apple gave us a piece of mind and it was worth it. He doesn't seem as worried, so maybe I shouldn't either. I guess it makes sense not to worry until he starts to hurt. The only other thing I will do is get some or make stairs to our bed.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Sounds like you have a super vet!

Well, that's not good news, though, grade 4 in one knee. At least you know what you are dealing with. Most likely he will need surgery in both knees down the line, but if one knee is worse than the other, perhaps you can stagger the surgeries. It also gives you time to start putting money away for his surgery.

Not what you wanted to hear after just getting him, huh? Unfortunately, luxating patellas are just so common in these little dogs and if breeders don't screen the parents for them as they should, they pass the hefty cost on to those who buy their puppies. Did you get any kind of health guarentee with Cloud? A good breeder would adjust his purchase price or assist with medical expenses so that would help with the cost of his surgeries. 

I would definately start Cloud on a joint supplement. I wish I had owned Lady as a puppy (she's a rescue) and done that as I am sure she wouldn't have the terrible arthritis she has now. I firmly believe that just like with skin kids, good nutrition during the early years makes a big difference in their adult health. I would highly recommend Glycoflex or Cosequin as a supplement. Stay away from the cheaper ones as if you read the labels, they just don't contain as much glucosamine, chondrotin, etc. which is why they are less expensive. Also, don't waste your money on foods that claim to have it added in. They just don't contain enough to make a difference.


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Oct 29 2004, 05:13 AM
> *Hey everybody!  Thanks for thinking about my baby.  Thanks Elegant for the PM
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Your welcome!









I heard that using glucosamine helps SIGNIFICANTLY for any dog or human at that, that had arthritis or joint problems. I would begin using this right away! Anything is worth a shot, and I am happy to hear there's no pain.

~Elegant


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

Hey! Where do you get glucosamine? At the petstore or a walgreens? I'm not going to order online if I dont have to because I don't want to pay for shipping.

Ladysmom--I really do have a super vet. I hope you all has or can find a vet as great as mine! I told Elegant the same thing you said. Even though it's inevitable that he will need surgery, at least I know now and can start an emergency fund on him. 

I emailed the breeder like you guys said. I don't think I'm going to even ask for any type of reimbursements because he might not need surgery and because I got him for $500. She did email me and said she's sorry for Cloud's situation and what not. 

Actually, he probably will need surgery. I mean, he's going to get older and when you get older you just have problems. I will definitely do as much as I can to take care of my baby.
Thanks again


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

even if jongee doesnt have any knee problems right now (my vet checked them about 2 weeks ago and she said they are perfect) should i give her the supplements???

Buttercloud - im sorry about ur baby...but its good that he's not in pain ~!~


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko_@Oct 29 2004, 08:25 AM
> *Hey!  Where do you get glucosamine?  At the petstore or a walgreens?  <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=13906*


[/QUOTE]
Any store has it, but I found it cheap at Walmart, Target, etc...

I give some t my Rottweiler for precaustionary measures and to my Beagle because she is old. I'll probably start giving some to Chanel soon too.

~Elegant


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

As I said, Glycoflex makes an excellent chewable flavortab for dogs. I don't know if it's available in pet stores, but I find the mark up is so high, it's cheaper to order and pay the shipping and handling. I happen to love Revival Pets for things like that. 

http://www.revivalanimal.com/index.cfm?Det...Product_ID=2561

KV Vet supply also carries it.

Anyway, as you can see, there are different formulas for different needs and one specifically for young dogs.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

When I took Kodie to Cornell for his liver shunt radio active test... they did a complete phsycial on him and told me his knees were a #1... they also told me that feeling the way his knee socket functioned, he probably will never need surgery for his knees... my question is.. can a doctor tell that? Can the knee get worst over time? I thought it could...







I dont really let Kodie jump on anything like stairs etc... (Kodie is too small to get on the couch without my help..haha) 
I know your dog can tear the knee because our Beagle did that from jumping up at trees trying to get squirrels. :lol:


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

hey Kodie. In my case, ButterCloud had a No. 4 grade for his knee, but it doesn't hurt him. The doctor said overtime it may start to hurt. I think overtime anything can change beause of age so just try do do as much preventative measures to keep them healthy and happy. 

On another note. I thought you guys wanted to know just in case you don't (cause I didnt know). Here's the reason why I asked if glucosamine was even necessary. Glucosamine strengthens the joint, right? Well, when your baby has surgery for luxating patellas, what they do is make the depression where their patella sits more shallow. If it's more shallow, it prevents the patella from moving out of place. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

I dont wanna sound stupid or anything but I never know what is fact or fiction...
What are some protective measures to take to make sure you prevent any possible problems in the future??

Is not going up and down stairs one?


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

I really don't know either so dont feel stupid. I assume that stairs isn't a no-no because my babies dont look like they're straining when they go up the stairs. I think it's when they use alot of their strength is when you have to watch out. 

With me, I have a little bit of knee issues so I don't like jogging alot or else it'll eventually start to pop and hurt. Actually, I don't like jogging at all because I'm lazy. I like to do biking b/c I'm sitting down. Also, ButterCloud likes to jump on my bed and it's almost 3 ft high. I gotta make some stairs soon. Cloud also likes to jump on my lap.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)

:wacko:


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

I live on the 3rd floor of my apartment building. Lexi has been doing the stairs since June. So far no problems.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

The great thing about Glycoflex is that in addition to glucosamine, it also contains green lipped mussel which actually helps repairs cartilage. Their formulas for more advanced joint problems also have MSM for inflamation.

Glycoflex is what my vet recommended for Lady's severe arthritis and it has made a big difference. As far as the Hartz/Walmart glucosamine and all the others out there, you get what you pay for. If you read the label, they contain far less of the glucosamine and chondrotin than Glycoflex does - not enough to make a difference. Ditto for the foods that have it added in - just not enough to have any real effect.

You get what you pay for and if you are trying to avoid knee surgery (although honestly I think it is inevitable with a Grade 4 luxation), I would definately get one of the better joint supplements or not bother at all.

Cosequin is also supposed to be excellent:

http://www.kvvet.com/KVVet/product_family....875CBDBE171C454


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

Hey you guys. It's been awhile for this thread huh? Anyway, nothing's changed with Cloud's knees which is GOOD news. I didn't realize how long it's been since his vet visit...almost a month! Anyway, during the visit the Dr. said he'll call the specialist and get back to me in a couple of days. He actually called me TODAY! LOL. I can't believe he remembered. He apologized and said he was playing phone tag with the specialist. Anyway, I just thought ya'll would want to know what he told me. I hope I remember everything right. It was unexpected. Here goes...

He said the specialist recommends NOT fixing it which I'm happy to hear. He said Cloud's not feeling pain so dont put him through that. He said that having the surgery will definitely give Cloud, or anyone, arthritis. I surely didn't know that :/. He said that if I feel like I needed it to be looked at then he'll call the specialist for me. I told him I'll think about but, I don't think the specialist would say anything different when he sees Cloud. The doctor, Dr. Apple, is very thorough person, so I know he told the specialist everything he needed to know. I bet you he described every bump and what not he felt in Cloud's leg. haha. 
Gee, I feel like I'm forgetting something. The phone call was about 4-5 mins long.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

Well,...thats good news!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

glad to hear it doesnt need to be fixed. looks like things are looking up for you


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## ilove_d&m (Apr 7, 2004)

Thats very good news...


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