# Seizures and Heartguard



## bootoo (Sep 3, 2006)

Last month Bailey had a seizure - two actually in the same evening. The emergency vet said to watch him and come in if he seized repeatedly for more than a few minutes at a time. He had one about 6:30 pm and then another one at about 11:30 pm.

The next day my regular vet said, when I took him in, there was little to do but try to find a pattern. They took blood to test for...oh, I forgot what all they were testing for. All blood work was fine. She said to keep a journal to look for patterns.

(She also told us what do if he had another one, what to give hime afterward, what to expect, etc.)

For a month, he did not have ANY MORE AT ALL. Then yesterday he had two again. At about 6:30 in the evening and again at about 1:30. Very similar in time pattern to the first episode. As we were writing it all down to take to the vet on Monday, we realized a commonality to the last time.

It was the day after he got his Heartguard.

I have been so flustered by this, I have not taken time to research this relationship. 

Have any of you guys had such an experience or know of such a relationship? I am not certain that was/is the trigger, but it is suspicious tome.


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## hambys97 (Feb 25, 2005)

I am sorry to hear of this. I don't know of any relation, but I have been using heartguard for all my pups with no problems. That doesn't mean much, but when did you start giving the heartguard?


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## RexsMom (Jun 8, 2005)

Rex has used Heartgaurd ever since we had him and we havent had a problem. But a mothers intuition is usually right. Did your baby just take this for the first time? Maybe he is having a reaction to it. Then there is also there horrible thought of something happening like it has to the dog food in the past few months. Is it a new box of Heartgaurd that you have been using since you have had the problems? I hope whatever is causing the seizures you are able to find out soon and prevent anymore. You will be in our thoughts.


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## bootoo (Sep 3, 2006)

We will have him 2 years in October and he started on it when we went for his first check-up. We have been faithful with that each month. 

He is a rescue and they estimate 4 - 5 years old.


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## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

That about does it for me and Heartguard. I am so sorry about your Bailey and the seizures. Coco hasn't had seizures, but she throws up each month when I give it to her. Is there anything else they can take for heart worms? I hope he will be fine.


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## Eddie's Mama (Jun 10, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear about your baby having seizurs. I greatly emphazize with him as I have epiliepsy and seizur at times quite frequently. 

It must be so hard and scary for a pup as they don't understand what's going on. It's scary experiencing them as a person. So I can only imagine how he feels... 

I hope your vet figures aways to stop or control them.

My friend'd dog has epilepsy. But it doesn't sound like Bailey has it. It may be a reaction. But I'm not a docter so I couldn't tell.

I hope everything works out to be alright.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

looks like ur pup has epilapsy and the heartgard may just be a trigger...it doesnt have to do with an actual chemical in the heartgard itself. it can be a food hypersensitivity, or just a coincidence..but there r no actual correlations b/w ivermectin and seizures except in collie breeds.


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

It probably wouldn't hurt to change to a different version of heartworm preventative. My bichon takes heartguard but the maltese take the little brown pill - Interceptor. They just wouldn't eat the heartguard even if I cut it into tiny pieces. The Interceptor pill is very small and easily disguised in a pill pocket.


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## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

> It probably wouldn't hurt to change to a different version of heartworm preventative. My bichon takes heartguard but the maltese take the little brown pill - Interceptor. They just wouldn't eat the heartguard even if I cut it into tiny pieces. The Interceptor pill is very small and easily disguised in a pill pocket.[/B]


Thank you for that information. I asked the last time I purchased it at the vet if there were another type of medication I could give Coco, and they said, "Not that we sell." Well, I will go elsewhere and get it, then. Seems to me, if a dog has a problem with something, they could get something else. That heartguard looks like a lot of medication for a little 5 pound dog.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Yes, heartworm medications can trigger seizures and Heartguard (Ivermectin) is known to trigger seizures in some dogs who are sensitive to it. Collies especially seem to be sensitive to it.

My Lady is epileptic and I have read a lot on the subject. Interceptor is thought to be a much safer heartworm preventative. 

This is from the Canine Epilepsy website which has become my "bible" over the years:

It is recommended that epi[leptic] dogs be given Interceptor as a monthly heartworm preventative and Frontline used for fleas. Avoid products with Ivermectin it has been known to cause seizures in some breeds.  

http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/overview.html

Some tranquilizers such as acepromazine and dewormers such as ivermectin can also precipitate seizures.  

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.p...amp;SourceID=69

Some medications, including phenothiazine tranquilizers, ketamine, and ivermectin, may increase seizure activity.  

http://www.irishwolfhoundstudy.com/seizures/thomas.htm

Do keep a journal and record any further seizures. Bailey is in the age group (between 1-5 years old) that seizures are most likely caused by idiopathic epilepsy which means it's organic and not caused by another disease like hypothyrroidism or a liver shunt. That's why your vet did all those tests, to rule out another cause. My Lady is also a rescue and was abandoned by her first owner at age 4&1/2 becasue she started to have seizures.

For now, just watch him and avoid things that can trigger seizures. Here's a great list of seizure triggers from my favorite website:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels...ureTriggers.htm

Epilepsy seems to be fairly common in this breed. Some Maltese only have an occasional seizure and never need medication. Some, like my Lady, need "heavy duty" medications to keep her seizures under control.

Seizures are horrible to watch, but in most cases being epileptic doesn't affect a dog's life span or quality of life. Lady has been epileptic for seven years now.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

there were a lot of posts on this subject on the vet forum....they state it is safe for epileptics to be on heartgard and that the ivermectin is not linked to seizures except in collie breeds and that is at high doses.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Has the opinion changed on the subject, then? We count on you to keep us up to date!

As I said, the canine epilpesy website that I have sworn by for seven years lists Heartguard as a possible seizure trigger and recommends using Interceptor instead. 

So new studies now show Heartguard is safe for epileptics?

Personally, I'll stick with Interceptor to be safe since it is just as effective. I am overly cautious when it comes to anything that has even been remotely linked to seizures especially since there is such an easy alternative.


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## Andrea&Luci (Jul 30, 2006)

Wow...I am so sorry that your baby was having seizures. I can't imagine how scarry that must be. My vet put Luci on Interceptor, i have heard that it is a little gentler on these little babies rather than Heartgard. So, every month, she gets it. I really feel like these medications even though helpful with pests, can't possibly have good long term effects on our babies. For example, Luci is now 18 months old. 3 months ago I switched her from K9Advantix over to Frontline plus. I changed the medication over because I had noticed that every month that I applied the medicine, she would be VERY lazy,and ALWAYS throw up and not eat for the entire day. Also, one day while giving her a bath I noticed that her skin between her shoulderblades was turning purplish, so I decided to just inquire about it at the vet. She told me that K9Advantix is rough on the little dogs, SPECIALLY small white dogs?! I was confused and aggravated that she hadn't told me that from day 1, but she said that they try to give it to most people because it also protects against mosquitos. I ended up asking her if Luci REALLY needed this, considering the fact that she goes for walks once a week and never ever goes on the grass, and then she further told me that the flea and tick stuff CAN be given every OTHER month....so that is what I do now. Last week I have her 2nd dose of Frontline so far, and again, she was very mushy all day...so I am atributing it to that. At this point, it's confusing and frustrating to keep giving our kidz these meds that we have no clue on what their real long term damaging results are. 
I hope that they find what is causing Bailey's seizures, and hope that you can find some peace of mind!!


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## Jessie (Jun 13, 2007)

So sorry to hear about your baby. Its a very scary thing to watch especially as they cant talk. I hope you find an answer.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Andrea, Lady gets a reaction to flea preventatives, too. Her blood sugar goes way up after I apply it (Lady is diabetic) and she acts like she isn't feeling well for days afterwards when I use the spot on products.

I use Frontline because it is recommended for epileptics, but I use the spray instead of the spot on. I can control the dosage better and only use one half  of the number of pumps recommend for her weight. The smallest Frontline Plus Top Spot dose is for a dog up to 22 pounds. That's a lot of pesticide to put on a six pound Maltese!

Ticks are not a problem here so I use it only for flea control and only do it every three months. I put it on a cosmetic puff (not a cotton ball - they are too absorbent. You want the puff to be wet) and rub it all over her.

She has never had a reaction when I do it this way. As I said, one half the recommended dosage keeps her free from fleas for three months and fleas are a real problem here in North Carolina.

I think it's so important to remember that all these things are poisons even if they are necessary. Toy breed dogs are so sensitive to pesticides and vaccines.

Here's a link to the Frontline website so you can compare products:


http://frontline.us.merial.com/home/index.asp


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

> That about does it for me and Heartguard. I am so sorry about your Bailey and the seizures. Coco hasn't had seizures, but she throws up each month when I give it to her. Is there anything else they can take for heart worms? I hope he will be fine.[/B]


We have used Interceptor for both boys from the beginning and there has been no reaction at all, it's a tiny pill and easy to administer. I used Heartguard back in Australia and had problems with my little Malt not eating it so I stopped using it.

I am so sorry your little Bailey is having seizures







I really hope you can get to the bottom of the cause, I never had that problem when using the Heartguard back home, just that some would not get eaten and I was concerned the protection wasn't sufficient.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Twice seizures one day after taking heartgard is too much of a coincidence for me. Skip one month (don't give anything) and see what's happening. If he is seizure free during this time switch to another heartworm preventative.


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I understand where Maltese Jane is coming from....but right now, in the summer, I don't know that I would go without heartworm preventative even for a month because of all the mosquitos. I'd be too afraid that they'd get heartworms.....


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I agree. It's seems too coincidental to me, too, especially until recently there was thought to be a connection between ivermectin and seizures. So often we hear conflicting reports on the safety of medications and the debate continues for years. Look at the controversy over Celebrex, for instance. To me, it's better to be safe than sorry.

I wouldn't stop heartworm preventative, but I would switch to Interceptor.


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## starry (Sep 4, 2006)

I just scanned thru all the posts and not sure if it was mentioned but I use Sentinel, it helps with fleas too. I think summer time is the worst for all parasite problems!


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

> That about does it for me and Heartguard. I am so sorry about your Bailey and the seizures. Coco hasn't had seizures, but she throws up each month when I give it to her. Is there anything else they can take for heart worms? I hope he will be fine.[/B]



I am so sorry to hear about your puppy's seizures! I have heard about very adverse reactions to heartworm medication and Shiva has thrown up both times I gave it to her, even just a partial dosage. So I stopped giving it to her. Luckily we live in SoCal near the beach, so heartworm is very rare in our area. I've decided that I'd rather have her blood tested 6 months than fill her with poison for something that is not likely to occur.

However, my parents live in NC, where heartworm is much more prevalent, and their havanese breeder recommends Interceptor - they make a dosage for dogs from 2-10 pounds, which is a lot better than the 25 pound dosage (their smallest) for Heartguard!

BTW, I think you are supposed to report adverse reactions to the pharma company or maybe the FDA?


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## bootoo (Sep 3, 2006)

Thank you all so much. He is sitting here just fine now - like he did last month! I talked with my vet today and she added this weekend's episode to his record. We are keeping that log.

I have heard the anti seizure meds can be worse than the occasionaly seizure. What are the adverse effects? (I read somewhere here that the occasionally seisure dog often developes into the full time, medicated seizure dog.) What am I facing in terms of the side effects of the meds?

I am in no way thinking of getting rid of him or any thing like that! My eyes well up at even the thought. I just want to know what I am in for...possibly.

I am off to the store to buy all natural Haagen Das icecream - I will have to label it vegetable soup or something to keep my husband and daughtre away from it!


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

I am using Sentinel. But stop during the winter. We had a discussion in another forum about the heartworm preventative medicines (not MO) and it was said that those pills really protect longer then a month. If bootoo does not spend much time outside, I would rather take the risk of heartworms then risking another seizure. Or switch to something else.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Phenobarbital is the most medication prescribed for seizures and can cause liver damage. For a dog who only has an occasional seizure, the risks don't outweigh the benefits.

Accoding to my vet, epilpesy is generally a progressive disease. Most epileptic dogs do eventually need medication according to Dr. Suzy. 

With each seizure, the brain learns to rewire itself to make path so it's easier to have the next seizure. It's called "kindling". That's why it's important to keep seizures to a minimum. A few seizures a year is safe, but if they become more frequesnt, like every severla months, you vet may suggest starting phenobarbital. Milk thistle is a wonderful supplement that protects the liver. I have given it to Lady almost since she started on pheno and seven years later her liver values are still normal. And she is on the maximum dosage of pheno, too.

There is a ton of information on the Canine Epi Angels website.

For now, just track his seizures in a journal, avoid things that can trigger seizures, and know what to do when he is having them.

As far as the protcetion of hearworm medication, it used to be thought that Interceptor could protcet them for two months so we used to only give it to Lady every other month. A couple of years ago Dr. Suzy said they had started to she cases of heartworm when a dog had only missed one dose, so she didn't feel that was enough protection anymore.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

i would switch preventatives to be safe..it could be the beef in it that is a trigger who knows but usually they will have a seizure the same day as the trigger is given, not the next day....but the opinion did change on the subject according to the vet forums it is safe for epileptics. but doesnt hurt to try another.


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## bootoo (Sep 3, 2006)

I do not feel comfortable not giving him the protection of the heart worm meds. I will check with our vet before the next time and see what we need to switch.

I appreciate the information from every one.

Since I am home all the time now - teacher on summer vacation! - I am watching his every move. He hiccups and I start clearing furniture! I will need meds for me if I don't calm down! 

My best approach right now is to learn all I can.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> I do not feel comfortable not giving him the protection of the heart worm meds. I will check with our vet before the next time and see what we need to switch.
> 
> I appreciate the information from every one.
> 
> ...



Lady has a valium prescription to take after seizures to help prevent cluster seizures.

I can't tell you how many times I've been tempted to take some myself to get through those episodes!


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## bootoo (Sep 3, 2006)

It is that time of month ago - for Bailey. I gave him his Heartguard this morning and am keeping him close. I have stayed at home today to be near him to watch him. It was a day or two later before, but I am watching for any differences I may not hav noticed before. 

I will keep you posted on if he does or does not have a seizure this time!


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

> It is that time of month ago - for Bailey. I gave him his Heartguard this morning and am keeping him close. I have stayed at home today to be near him to watch him. It was a day or two later before, but I am watching for any differences I may not hav noticed before.
> 
> I will keep you posted on if he does or does not have a seizure this time![/B]


Good luck, I hope he is fine! Have you considered switching to Interceptor? Their dosage is much smaller (dogs 2-10 pounds) than Heartguard (up to 22 pounds) and they have a different ingredient that is just as effective for preventing heartworm.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I thought you were going to switch to Interceptor to be safe? It's just as effective as Heartguard and he may have a sensitivity to the ingredient in Heartguard.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Frosty took Heartguard all his life, then when he was about 11 or 12 he had an episode of violate vomiting about 4-6 hrs. after taking one. It was extreme and ended up in the doggie ER at 4:30 AM. It was like he was poisoned. They had him there on IV's for a couple days and nights. He was very sick. The only thing we could relate it to was the Heartguard. It may not have been, but I wasn't taking any chances and after that he just had the blood test for Heartworm every year.

I was told that the medication in the Heartguard chewy things isn't always well mixed and even tho' I always cut some of the pill off to make it smaller he could get an over dose sometimes. Heartworm is very rare here and I hate unneeded medication, so I'm not sure what I'll do with the new baby. Probably Interceptor during the summer only.

There are some smells like the one in Avon bath oil that repel mosquito's. Maybe just a little on your hands rubbed across the fluff would even work if you are in an area where there are few mosquito's.


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## bootoo (Sep 3, 2006)

My vet suggested that I give him the Heartguard on a different day than the Frontline. (I know, forty lashes with a dog leash. We formerly gave him both on the same day to keep up with it.)

I gave him the Heartguard as I posted. No seizure. I put his Frontline on him yesterday and no seisure. Either they were not the trigger or it was them together.

He has not had another one.


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## bootoo (Sep 3, 2006)

Well, Bailey did not have another seisure after the Heartguard. Not after the Frontline the next week. The week after that he started. It was two or three a day for four days. On the fifth day, the vet said it was time to start him on the antiseisure meds. It has been a couple of weeks now and he has not had one since starting. 

His activity level has not really changed, but his appetite really has. He was a free eater before and I had to stop that. We measure the food and he eats the recommended amount only. I think I am going to have to investigate wt control food!

He is doing well. He goes back in for over night next week for them to test his blood level and all. The vet has called every few days and has been wonderful.

It broke my heart to start him on this - if you don't admit they have a problem, then they don't really, right? Admitting he was as perfect as I thought was heartbreaking. But seeing him suffer so was, too. I reference the websites you sent and am reading and learning all I can. This is my boy now.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> Well, Bailey did not have another seisure after the Heartguard. Not after the Frontline the next week. The week after that he started. It was two or three a day for four days. On the fifth day, the vet said it was time to start him on the antiseisure meds. It has been a couple of weeks now and he has not had one since starting.
> 
> His activity level has not really changed, but his appetite really has. He was a free eater before and I had to stop that. We measure the food and he eats the recommended amount only. I think I am going to have to investigate wt control food!
> 
> ...


 :grouphug: 

My Lady has been on seizure medications for seven years now. Epileptic dogs can live long and happy lives, thank heavens. They may not be perfect as you say. I prefer to think of Lady as "special". 

You are not alone. A number of us here have epileptic Maltese. I think it's pretty common in this breed. The receptionist at my doctor's office has an epileptic Maltese, too. I think I've told the story of walking Lady while I was visting my mom. A lady stopped her car to chat. She had a Maltese, too, and I swear the third sentence out of her mouth was "Does she have "fits", too?" Her friend also had a Maltese and it also had seizures.

Just read, read, read and learn as much as you can about handling seizures and avoiding triggers.

You should let Bailey's breeder know about his epilepsy. It is believed to be genetic and his breeder should be made aware of this so she can stop breeding his parents.


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## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

I took Coco off the Heartguard and last month used the pill. Is it Ivermectin? I think it is. Anyway, the day I gave it to her, she was as sick as a "dog." She threw up numerous times. I am at a loss as to what to do about the heartworm meds. I certainly know how you are feeling about this, although Coco hasn't had seizures, thank goodness.


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## bootoo (Sep 3, 2006)

Ladysmom, 
I wish I could tell the breeder...Bailey is rescue - he was removed by animal control from a home in Miami due to neglect. His hair was so matted when he was taken into rescue they sheared him like a sheep and the hair came off like a sheep pelt of wool. They took pictures.

Heaven only knows what he was exposed to and went through during that time. My vet estmated he was about 2 or 3 when I adopted him. It was hard to tell exactly due to his health. His teeth were good and he was chipped, but he was not altered. He must have been exposed to excessive heat being "chained" outside in Miami in the summer. He ws rescued on July 31st.

Thank you for encouragement. Lady's long and happy life has been a part of the story I tell when I tell friends our progress.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> Ladysmom,
> I wish I could tell the breeder...Bailey is rescue - he was removed by animal control from a home in Miami due to neglect. His hair was so matted when he was taken into rescue they sheared him like a sheep and the hair came off like a sheep pelt of wool. They took pictures.
> 
> Heaven only knows what he was exposed to and went through during that time. My vet estmated he was about 2 or 3 when I adopted him. It was hard to tell exactly due to his health. His teeth were good and he was chipped, but he was not altered. He must have been exposed to excessive heat being "chained" outside in Miami in the summer. He ws rescued on July 31st.
> ...


Lady is a rescue, too. It's so sad to think that these sweet souls first have to endure neglect, and then live with chronic illnesses.

I also believe that these special dogs are given a second chance at a full and happy life by some how finding just the right person who can love and care for their needs. :grouphug:


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## sophie (Jul 9, 2006)

Will keep you and Bailey in my prayers. You are a wonderful mommy and a wonderful person to have rescued Bailey. 

Linda


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Bless you for giving little Bailey all the love and care he so deserves!


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