# Extracting lower baby canines=extra risks? Spaying, anesthesia & teeth



## dognut (Jun 27, 2013)

Hi guys,

I took Kaotang to the vets today to have her CBC, blood chem, and BAT done before I make an appt. to have her spayed. 

Kaotang needs a couple things fixed. She has an umbilical hernia that they will take care of during the upcoming operation. She also has all 4 retained canines. 

The upper adult canines are growing in side by side with the baby canines. But the lower ones are aligned on the inside of her baby canines. They are crowding. The baby teeth are being pushed outward but with no sign of coming loose. Now what I'm concerned with is that the lower adult canines are getting pushed (pointing) inward. I want to have the teeth extracted as soon as possible. 

But the vets I have consulted don't want to do all the procedures at the same time and if possible they don't want to pull the lower canines at all. They said extracting lower canines can cause the puppy's jaw to break (is this true ??) and if I really want it done to do it separately from spaying. They said there is also the added risk of having the puppy stay under longer. 

Now I know a lot you guys have had your malts' baby teeth pulled at the same time as spaying/neuterng. I was wondering how do you compare the risk of putting the puppy under longer and puttting her under twice ? If I choose to do one thing first, is it better to spay first then wait a month to do the teeth ? If the lower canines are crowding and pushing against her incisors will it be too late for her jaw alignment then (Kaotang already has an underbite. I don't want it to get worse)? 

Also, I was wondering how important is the coagulation test for spay operation ? Kaotang got her blood drawn twice today coz' of the BAT. But it still wasn't enough to run the coagulation test. The third time, Kaotang wasn't putting up with the restraining and poking anymore. So we either have to go in again for another blood draw or skip it. How important is this test ? 

Thanks for your help ! 
Dawn


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

Dawn, I can't speak to the length of time question, but Gustave needed 10 teeth extracted. The vet didn't do it when he went under for his neuter but that was purely because they wanted to make more money. I will always regret that he went under twice within a period of two months because of an unethical vet. 

He had his upper canines, lower canines, and a lot of teeth towards the back. This is only anecdotal but I was first told by a breeder to get them extracted, and then all vets who looked in his mouth said the same. My new vet calls him 'double jaws' still because of that. 


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Hope others with more information will post...


But I honestly see no issues with doing all of it at once. In fact, it is probably best.

Retained teeth can cause a lot of problems with little dogs. If she is going to be put under, I'd tell them to do all of it at once.

Her jaw won't crack unless these are really bad doctors.... I've never heard of that before.

It also sounds like they are trying to get more money out of you - do they charge you for blood draws outside the test.... because I'm surprised they didn't do all the tests at once.

A coagulation test is very important depending on her other blood work.

Grace has liver issues, so that test was run a few times to ensure safety.

I'd be concerned they did the BAT wrong and those results will create drama.... I know you're in Thailand so it is hard for me to tell you to just go find another vet....


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

Grace'sMom said:


> I know you're in Thailand so it is hard for me to tell you to just go find another vet....


That's the part that worries me. I would hate for all of us to tell you one thing, and then Kaotang having complications because the vets there aren't used to doing all those procedures together. 

I see you used the plural 'vets'. Were they all with the same practice? It might be worth getting a 3rd or a 4th opinion even. 




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## dognut (Jun 27, 2013)

Hi guys. This practice is my second opinion. I want this hospital to spay her because they are most equipped according to anesthesia guidelines posted in one of the stickies here. The vet today explained the spay procedure to me in details. I like what I heard (except for the teeth part). Other places don't even use trache tubes let alone monitors for vitals. And as far as money goes I don't think they are trying to cheat me. They prefer I leave the teeth alone altogether. So if I insist on having her teeth extracted it will have to be a second operation elsewhere, maybe one of the state teaching animal hospital which are super busy and most likely vets there won't have time to go through the procedures with me and answer my detailed questions.

I'm posting pics of her teeth. I just want to know that if docs here (including state hopital which I will call) aren't comfortable with doing spay, umbil hernia, teeth at the same time (you guys are right about the limited options here. 99% of vets here were prob taught cirriculums not updated since I don't know how many decades ago. And they don't even have TF free vaccines here), does her condit in these look serious ? Should I get the teeth done first before the lower canines fully come in ? 

Thanks again guys for your inputs! 
Dawn


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## dognut (Jun 27, 2013)

Sorry about this. I am using my phone and for some reason it won't let me post all the pictures at once.


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## dognut (Jun 27, 2013)

Here's another one.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

The teeth need to come out. I would absolutely do it at the time of the spay. If your vet is not comfortable extracting the teeth, find another vet. Unless the vet is very poorly trained there is no reason to break a jaw exctracting deciduous canines.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

eiksaa said:


> That's the part that worries me. I would hate for all of us to tell you one thing, and then Kaotang having complications because the vets there aren't used to doing all those procedures together.
> 
> I see you used the plural 'vets'. Were they all with the same practice? It might be worth getting a 3rd or a 4th opinion even.
> 
> ...


I worry about that too. Other countries have different training.... 



dognut said:


> Hi guys. This practice is my second opinion. I want this hospital to spay her because they are most equipped according to anesthesia guidelines posted in one of the stickies here. The vet today explained the spay procedure to me in details. I like what I heard (except for the teeth part). Other places don't even use trache tubes let alone monitors for vitals. And as far as money goes I don't think they are trying to cheat me. They prefer I leave the teeth alone altogether. So if I insist on having her teeth extracted it will have to be a second operation elsewhere, maybe one of the state teaching animal hospital which are super busy and most likely vets there won't have time to go through the procedures with me and answer my detailed questions.
> 
> I'm posting pics of her teeth. I just want to know that if docs here (including state hopital which I will call) aren't comfortable with doing spay, umbil hernia, teeth at the same time (you guys are right about the limited options here. 99% of vets here were prob taught cirriculums not updated since I don't know how many decades ago. And they don't even have TF free vaccines here), does her condit in these look serious ? Should I get the teeth done first before the lower canines fully come in ?
> 
> ...


Dawn,

I'd probably go with what that vet said then. If they are the highest qualified for her spay - then please do stay there.

Many dogs go under for teeth cleanings, so I'm sure she will be okay.

The teeth do need to come out. Gus had teeth like that... I didn't know everything I know now, and he was neutered really young so couldn't tell they would retain, but his baby teeth did eventually pop out.

If I were in your place, I'd go with this vet and then have the teeth removed at a later date. Make sure to keep an eye on them and things like the smell of her breath and eating & chewing habits.

Be sure to post when her surgery is... we will start prayers... SM family is really good at that....


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## dognut (Jun 27, 2013)

Hi guys. Thanks so much again for your inputs. I will keep your suggestions in mind for when Kaotang undergoes these procedures. But they might have to be postponed for now. I've started another thread (a super long post) on her not good blood chem and BAT test results. I hope you can give me some thoughts on this as well.
http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/52-...t-no-symptoms-what-next-step.html#post2791105

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!
Dawn


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## dognut (Jun 27, 2013)

Hi guys, 

I just thought I'd give this thread a small update and share some good news. I feel like I've been putting a lot of negative energy out there with me worrying about Kaotang's BAT and ammonia levels and still no definitive diagnosis. 

Nope, the vets haven't okayed her spay surgery.... But her lower canines are coming loose! Yay! Finally! I didn't think it was going to happen since most of her baby teeth came loose within a two week period. I guess playing gentle tug of war with her helped. There's still no sign that her upper canines will come off naturally but to me they are less worrisome. 

Anyway, just wanna let you all know. And thank you so much for your support!

Lots-a-licks,
Kaotang and Dawn


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## Cyndilou (Jan 24, 2013)

Ace had his baby teeth that were still there taken out when he was neutered.


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