# STILL not potty trained, uggg, help.



## kaebonz (Dec 5, 2007)

I know this topic has been visited a million times and I should have been able to get this done with all the great advice but just think maybe I have my hands too full and hoping someone has some advice that might help. The thing is I have gotten 4 puppies in the last year, and every time we were about there with the housebreaking we would get another one. Don't ask the reason, I think I probably need counseling to work that out, just got my first little one and adore them so much I could not stop. We already had a big mutt that is housbroken and trained to use a certain corner of the yard even. We got my Yorkie-Poo first and he is a bit over a year old and is housebroken now but did take his time. My Maltese we got next and she has been a tough one, a year old and still stubborn. She does not like anyone watching her go and is sneaky as all heck finding places inside the house to go. So we limited their space to the hardwood and family room, which helped. Then I got shih-Tzu and then a Maltese/Shih-Tzu mix. I know my last baby is one of the ones still having accidents as he is not smart enough to hide when he is doing it. They now all do their "big business" outside with very few of those type accidents now but the potty accidents continue. I am home all day with them and still can't seem to catch them in the act and never sure which one it guilty. The problem with crate training, which I did not start young enough, is that I am now having the Shih-Tzu's sleep in their crates at night, after much whining. They sleep in my room, which is where I want them. And every time I try to use the crates to make them hold it and take them out every half an hour and then let them have their bonus free time if they perform, then the crates are seeming like punishment to them and they whine and cry. Especially difficult when there are other dogs that are running free. In fact my youngest one gets so worked up in his crate that he will leak all over like a watering can and of course, has nothing left to drain in the grass when I take them out. And this process is making it really difficult to keep them sleeping in the crates happily at night.

We have left our patio door open almost all the time this summer but we are up in Seattle and it is getting cold and wet so not really an option now and to make matters worse, they dont like to get thier paws wet in the soggy yard so not wanting to go out at all now. Some days and week they have been fabulous this summer and I thought we were making progress and then they would have a day where they litterly would just cut loose and have many accidents all in one day, no reason I could find for these bad days either. So any help would be great, I am exhaused, frustated, not sure who is even really close to trained and my carpet and husband will not take much more.


And I can't get the stinking spell check to work on this forum, it says it cant find it.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

1. Set up a schedule and put EVERYONE on it. So everyone goes up in their crate or gated room (1 small room) at certain times. Everyone should get a treat for going up every time and you should practice going in the crate for a treat often during the day at times you are not putting them up. They should also be eating meals in their crates to make it positive. 

2. You need to go out with everybody and reward them with a yummy food treat for going potty in the right place. If your one does not like to be watched, turn your back or send her out alone and watch from the house. I will bet money she is hiding in the house to do it because she has learned it is not safe to potty in front of you. 

3. You need to be actively supervising them when they are loose. And if you are not, they need to be put up in a small space (gated in the laundry) or in their crates. You can use the gated space if that works for you, so long as they do not potty there. 

4. Has everyone had a urine sample checked? We want to be sure everybody is concentrating their urine, no infections or puppy vaginitis. I actually have a dog with a very rare disease called diabetes insipidus that greatly hampered housetraining until treated. The dog could not concentrate its urine and thus was urinating clear liquid in massive amounts. With proper vet care, these conditions can be fixed and aid in your housetraining endeavor. With multiple dogs, it could be hard to tell if someone does have a problem.


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## kaebonz (Dec 5, 2007)

QUOTE (JMM @ Sep 22 2008, 05:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=639194


> 1. Set up a schedule and put EVERYONE on it. So everyone goes up in their crate or gated room (1 small room) at certain times. Everyone should get a treat for going up every time and you should practice going in the crate for a treat often during the day at times you are not putting them up. They should also be eating meals in their crates to make it positive.
> 
> 2. You need to go out with everybody and reward them with a yummy food treat for going potty in the right place. If your one does not like to be watched, turn your back or send her out alone and watch from the house. I will bet money she is hiding in the house to do it because she has learned it is not safe to potty in front of you.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your input. I realise now that maybe keeping them in crates is not nessesary for the "crate" style training to work. A smaller pen might do the trick and then can keep all three little ones together in it and they might be happier. Unfotunaly they like to be where their prople are and I know will put up a ruckus to be let out, wwhich I can tolerate if it means trained dogs but it will drive my husband, who works from home, nuts. My older 9 month Shih-Tzu is a sweety and never complains or whines about anything, but she may actually be potty trained by now, I can't tell. The other two are still having accidents I know. And the little Maltese is super attatcehd to my husband and wants to be in the same room as he is, preferably on his lap which he is very accomodating about, and my youngest baby is a mama's boy and has mild separation anxiety with me. He is 7 months old now though so is old enough to be housebroken with very limited accidents only, sigh. Not sure my husband and I can accomplish all we need to do in a day if we stay in their playard with them, wouldn't that be a sight. Oh, and did I mention, I also have 2 kids whose needs have taken a distant second at times to the little yappers. Another reason that even if I limit the pups space, I do not manage to keep my eye on all three culptits all the time.


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## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

I have had trouble with past pups (Yorkie, first Maltese and earlier than that, Poodle) but I have had very little trouble with Midis (unless it's raining; lets not go there. ) But what I did was to take Midis out in the yard, on a leash, tell him to "tee-tee" or "poop" and when he learned that he would get a real-honest-to-God-boiled-chicken treat immediately, he would pee or poop outside. He got his treat immediately, as I would take it outside with me. 

After he got older, he got the treat when he went outside without leash, peed, pooped, and came back in. So, the stage was set, so to speak, for him to know that peeing and pooping outside got him CHICKEN! (Sometimes filet mignon!) But inside he got nothing but scolded. If he went inside on the pee pad (by the back door, when it was raining) he got no treat but no scolding either. It was cleaned up and ignored.

This has really worked well for us. When we go visit family he never goes in their houses; he just goes in the yard on a leash. Rain is our only problem. He is like a cat: He hates to be wet. He will rarely go out in the rain, and if possible, we let him go on the deck so that he can stay under the roof of the house and not get drenched.

Cyndi


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Try a pen in the kitchen or family room then...so they're hanging out with you. Mine have night crates in the bedroom upstairs and ones downstairs for during the day. 

Make their pen positive...fun toys that are only for the pen. Kongs, everlasting treat balls, etc.


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## kaebonz (Dec 5, 2007)

QUOTE (BinnieBee @ Sep 22 2008, 06:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=639217


> I have had trouble with past pups (Yorkie, first Maltese and earlier than that, Poodle) but I have had very little trouble with Midis (unless it's raining; lets not go there. ) But what I did was to take Midis out in the yard, on a leash, tell him to "tee-tee" or "poop" and when he learned that he would get a real-honest-to-God-boiled-chicken treat immediately, he would pee or poop outside. He got his treat immediately, as I would take it outside with me.
> 
> After he got older, he got the treat when he went outside without leash, peed, pooped, and came back in. So, the stage was set, so to speak, for him to know that peeing and pooping outside got him CHICKEN! (Sometimes filet mignon!) But inside he got nothing but scolded. If he went inside on the pee pad (by the back door, when it was raining) he got no treat but no scolding either. It was cleaned up and ignored.
> 
> ...


I have tried the treat/leash outside thing, but having to do this process with 4 dogs, every hour, and the fact that they often take 15 minutes or more to do their business, it just was not working and I did it for weeks while the weather was good. And then they come in after not performing and pop a squat on the carpet 15 minutes later when I am outside with another dog trying to coax it to go, and of course the door was still open even. I can't take them all out on a leash at once or they just think it is play time and I often end up hog-tied although they are in the yard a bunch for playing anyway. I can see how it would work great with one dog. 

And don't forget that from here on out in Seattle it will be raining until late June again, it just does not work, I have already spent more than a month outside holding a leash most of the day with no success and and not willing to keep trying it in the rain, considering my previous lack of success with the strategy. And when I am not actively potty training, I am spending hundreds of dollars and hours with enzamatic cleaners, vinigar and every other product, tearing out padding even to keep the carpet from being an attractant. And I have had them pee on the carpet that I have just gone over with the steam cleaner when my back is turned and the steam cleaner humming in my ear. Could it all be that it is one big joke to them, seems that way at times? I mean, I can actually picture them plotting to really drive me crazy, like some sort of deviant cartoon charaters. Does anyone remember Ren and Stimpy??? 

I have tried the pee pad thing and they sometimes use it when we travel but at home my youngest dog just shreds them, and they wont go near it if it is in one of those trays. I almost think by initially letting them use one, it just made that whole pee inside the house kind of a mysterious shade of gray for them. I mean, the pee pad and the nice berber carpet are similar, if you are a dog maybe.

And they are just as happy to go on the hardwood as we used too and often still contain them just there. Easier to clean up but not really progress in any way. We are at the point of just spending thousands to replace the carpet hoping that clean carpet will inspire then to keep it clean and no smells to attract repeat behavior, but that is a pretty hard thing to have backfire on you.

I will have them checked out at the vet and make sure there is no physical problems but since they are all different breeds bought in differnet parts of the coutry by completly different linages, I have my doubts this it it. They can hold it just fine and go outside when they feel like it, more a case of monkey see...

So the next question is if I use the small pen on the hardwood thing and slowly give them more room, which we did already at one point but maybe moved too fast or missed an element, what is to keep them from starting back up on the carpet or when the space is large enough, like they did before?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Take 1 dog out on leash at a time (max 2 dogs but they may be a distraction to each other). 5 minutes outside. If no potty back in lock up. Repeat with the 3 not housetrained (the other you can just let out). If some don't go, they stay up and retry in 20 minutes. Do not ever let them run loose in the house if they have not pottied. 

Bottom line is get an umbrella and put the time in or have untrained dogs pottying all over your house. You got the multiple puppies. Suck it up and do right by them or fine them homes.


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## kaebonz (Dec 5, 2007)

QUOTE (JMM @ Sep 23 2008, 07:29 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=639406


> Take 1 dog out on leash at a time (max 2 dogs but they may be a distraction to each other). 5 minutes outside. If no potty back in lock up. Repeat with the 3 not housetrained (the other you can just let out). If some don't go, they stay up and retry in 20 minutes. Do not ever let them run loose in the house if they have not pottied.
> 
> Bottom line is get an umbrella and put the time in or have untrained dogs pottying all over your house. You got the multiple puppies. Suck it up and do right by them or fine them homes.[/B]


OK, what is an umbrella going to do, the ground will be soggy for many months. I live in Seattle and am no stranger to standing in the rain, I don't melt and am willing to do it, convincing the dogs is another thing. We have had these dogs confined to a very small area in the dining room for a long time and thought they were potty trained using the teqniqe described above. They KNOW they are supposed to go outside. I have been busting my butt with this and have put in the time and am looking for a tip or trick someone might have to keep them from reverting when they get more space. I do not what to keep them in a small pen all their lives and they whine and put up a ruckus when they are confined and we have had to put up with that for months. The tip to make the pen special with new toys by a previous post was greatfully received and I bought some treat kong balls.

The truth is I really resent you implying that I am not trying to do right by my dogs. Why do you think I am on here asking for help. I did not realise I needed to specify I am hoping to only get advice from people with a little understanding and compassion.


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

I don't think anyone is trying to offend you, but from your post it sounds like you expect there to be some magic trick that will train them and keep them trained. This just isn't the case! It's all about patience, consistency and praise.

It's definitely way more difficult with multiple dogs, but you made the choice to have all of them. If they don't like the rain, try a pee pad outside under a covered area.

You need to be consistent. If they don't go to the bathroom then they go in a crate or pen, then try again after you take the other ones out. It will take time, but after awhile they know they only have so long to go. If I tell Jax to go and he doesn't we go back inside and he gets to try again later. Once they are going outside, give them a little more freedom, but not the entire house all at once. Go slowly! Don't give them the opportunity to make a mistake - if you aren't actively watching them, in the pen they go! And give them a TON of praise for going in the correct spot! Not just a regular treat, but a good one! Jax is 1 1/2 years old and we always praise him for going outside (not always with a treat) and sometimes we praise him like crazy AND he gets a great treat for going outside! He doesn't really have accidents, unless we don't let him out when he asks - and then that's my fault, he can only hold it so long.

Good luck!


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## kaebonz (Dec 5, 2007)

QUOTE (MandyMc65 @ Sep 23 2008, 11:55 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=639465


> I don't think anyone is trying to offend you, but from your post it sounds like you expect there to be some magic trick that will train them and keep them trained. This just isn't the case! It's all about patience, consistency and praise.
> 
> It's definitely way more difficult with multiple dogs, but you made the choice to have all of them. If they don't like the rain, try a pee pad outside under a covered area.
> 
> ...


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## kaebonz (Dec 5, 2007)

QUOTE (kaebonz @ Sep 23 2008, 01:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=639485


> QUOTE (MandyMc65 @ Sep 23 2008, 11:55 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=639465





> I don't think anyone is trying to offend you, but from your post it sounds like you expect there to be some magic trick that will train them and keep them trained. This just isn't the case! It's all about patience, consistency and praise.
> 
> It's definitely way more difficult with multiple dogs, but you made the choice to have all of them. If they don't like the rain, try a pee pad outside under a covered area.
> 
> ...


[/B][/QUOTE]

I think part of the problem was the small space we keep them in is always the same, our 6x6 kitchen. When they do well there and have seemed ready they get the breakfast nook hardwoods added too which about doubles their space. At first this just seemed like an invitation to find a bathroom corner to them, much like keeping a dog in too big of a crate. But finally they got the hang of that and we actually gave them the family room too, which doubles the space again with carpeting. Ohhh, that was really an invitation, but eventually they even seemed to get the hang of that, after much nuetralizing and cleaning of carpet. So it feels like we were making progress. And then one day out of the blue they always seem to revert and we start the process over, although fortunately even that is getting to be fewer and farther between. 

And then our two young kids do not always get the gates all the way closed despite constant reminding, that is when the real problems arise, and they are lighting fast with their business where they are not supposed to be, even if they have gone recently. So it just occered to me since one person posted to put their pen where we are, to get a freestanding pen and move it around so the different rooms in the house do not seem "forbidden"

I am not looking for a magic solution unless some happens to actually have one, I just feel I have tried everything I know to do and hoping other people have some some tips that can help me out as this is taking a LONG time. And I already have gotten some good stuff so thank you everyone and keep them coming.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

My point is, if you cannot take on housetraining 3 puppies, placing 1 is a reasonable option as opposed to having all the dogs not being trained. 

So what if the ground is wet? I'm not sure I understand? Umbrella and boots and a towel for paws when they come in. The wet won't kill the dogs either. 

When you add space, you need to do so slowly and with 100% supervision. So open a room to them after they have gone potty while you can do nothing more than supervise them. After their 30 or so minutes, back up. The idea is for them to have many, many successful visits to this room where there are NO accidents because you are supervising. We want the idea of "hold it in my space" to translate and that takes time and many successes. My rule of thumb is 3 weeks perfect in one place before I offer more space. 3 weeks perfect supervised and we can start a 5 minute non-supervised right after going potty. 

If the potty struggle has gone on and they have been reprimanded for accidents, your dogs may have learned that it is not safe to potty in front of you in the house, but NOT that they should never potty in the house. If this is the case, you will need to accept that for a good long time (3-6 months), they'll need these successful, supervised visits to new spaces. 

Don't expect young dogs to have the run of the house either. A couple of rooms is plenty for an unsupervised pooch while you are in the house doing other stuff. Don't feel rushed to open the house. The faster you do, the faster you open new potty space that they do not feel is their house. Ensure your good results and go at a snails pace. 

For example, after going potty, my 7 month old may have our kitchen and very small family room. That's it.


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## kaebonz (Dec 5, 2007)

QUOTE (JMM @ Sep 23 2008, 02:54 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=639514


> My point is, if you cannot take on housetraining 3 puppies, placing 1 is a reasonable option as opposed to having all the dogs not being trained.
> 
> So what if the ground is wet? I'm not sure I understand? Umbrella and boots and a towel for paws when they come in. The wet won't kill the dogs either.
> 
> ...


The problem is the ground gets soggy and they don't like to step out on it. Even my big mutt, who has always been perfectly housebroken will hold it unreasonable lengths of time when it is soggy out. I know this sounds weird as you would expect dogs not to care, but three of my 5 hate the soggy grass. And I wont bother to spend thousands on sand or a French drain like my neighbor did because none of it worked. I would probably be better off building a gazebo on my patio that has artificial turf with a grate below it so I can hose it off. I am hoping it does not come to that.

Our dogs have not been reprimanded for accidents until very recently, and then only gently. It was pretty clear that without any reprimands and just telling them no and taking them out when we caught them in the act was somehow giving them the impression that peeing inside was fine. Charlie, my youngest at 7 months, will still pop a squat right in front of me on the hardwood or carpet the moment the urge strikes. OK, he might actually be a taco short of a combo platter, but I really don't think it is always him having the accidents. As far as the other two go, since I don't always see the accident happen, I am not really sure how close they are to being housebroken. I can be on the dining room floor with them playing with all three and watching them closely and all of a sudden there will be a pee spot 4 feet away and It was like some stealth distraction method they pulled on me, and I am baffled. Maybe I am the one that is the taco short....

At any rate, re-homing even one of my babies is NOT an option, my family adores each and every one of them and they are a very close group of dogs. I will not pass on my problems to someone else, I did not take on the task of owning 4 new puppies lightly, even if the potty training is taking way longer than I think it should. There are some very happy pet owners whose dogs never do get the training thing 100%, and maybe one day I will have to resign myself to that and put in all hardwoods, but I am going to try everything first. When I say my husband will not take much more, I just mean he is about to go old-school and rub their noses in it and yell. My big mutt was trained that way by my husband years ago and it was actually fast and effective, cringe.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

How about pea gravel in an area...not terribly expensive and it drains really well. They also make dog potties with fake turf for indoors. Just search indoor dog potties. You could get a couple pieces of fake turf and rotate them (leave the other outside on a grate to be rinsed off.


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