# Ripping the Pad and Crate Training



## Ant Nay (Mar 21, 2005)

Hello All,

Continuing on the (ripping the Pad) issue, I would like to ask who on this board crates their little guy most of the day when they are at work? To this point as you know we have put Oscar in the bathroom with a crate and his water /food and a pee pee pad (he is going to go make strictly indoors on pads) 
We have been having MAJOR issues with him ripping his pad and peeing on the ground and pooping on his pad and tearing it up and getting poop on his paws and then walking around the entire bathroom (we have cleaned the bathroom three times already this weekend) 
He seems to have separation anxiety issue, and when we leave to go to the store or work he rips his pad very badly and then pees and poops on the pad but of course there is no pad left in that area due to his ripping and we have pee and poop on the floor. He is hating his bathroom area now and sometimes REFUSES to pee or poop in the morning because he is mad we left him in there…VERY STUBBORN also as you tell.
So last night we went to a party and when we came home he just destroyed the pad and pooped and peed everywhere. We have decided that we need to crate him when we are gone it helps keep him clean and he helps us not to have to clean EVERY TIME we come home from going out. 

Ok finally the question ( well I thought you needed the set up story first) 
Does anyone on this board crate their little guy for the day we are talking 9 hours, he is 16 weeks and for two months we have tried to allow him to have an “area” but it is not working. We are not able to come home during lunch to take him out midday …we want him to get use to going in one area also…we have tried EVERYTHING to keep him occupied when we leave a Kong (actually 2) and a million toys, he just goes nuts when we leave and this is how he is lashing out…and making many messes…
I appreciate any feedback from others that are or have crated their little guy or from anyone else that wants to lend a suggestion
Thanks
A&N


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Yes, you can crate him...but, you need to work on some issues before you toss him in the crate and call it good simply because he can't destroy things. 

1. He is not housetrained.
2. He has separation anxiety.
3. He needs a dog walker in the middle of the day to take him out. 

Desensitize him to the crate first. Teach him to go in and out. Feed him in his crate. Make it a really positive experience. Once he is use to that, close the door for a few second while he is occupied eating. Slowly increase the time he is closed in while you are IN THE ROOM. Once he is comfortable with this, you can start stepping out of the room and right back in. Literally foot out, foot back in. If you can, throw him a treat as you walk out but not as you come back in. Always ignore him for a little when you walk back into the room. Slowly extend your time outside of the room, but do it variably (2 second, 10 seconds, 5 seconds, 30 seconds, etc.). The idea is to teach him that you leaving him is a good thing and his crate is a safe place to be. Sometimes it is better to have a trainer come in person to teach you how to do this as it needs to be done slowly to work. 

As for house training, start taking him on a schedule. Leash him to you in the house so he can't make a mistake. Take him to his wee wee pads (it might be a good idea to put them in a new place like the laundry room or kitchen instead of that bathroom) and reward him when he goes in the right place. If he doesn't go, back on the leash or in his crate for 10-15 minutes and try again. 

The amount of time a puppy can hold its bladder is the number of months of age plus one. 5 hours is his limit for the daytime right now. If you want to crate him during the day, hire a dog walker to take him out and give him a break in the middle of the day so he can potty, have a treat, and have some human interaction. 

You have a pup with issues being alone and this will take some time to resolve if you do it properly. Again, I will suggest that you have a consult with a behaviorist or trainer experienced in dealing with behavior problems. All of my typing cannot see how you interact with him and what unconscious cues you are giving him that could be changed. Changing small things about your interactions can often make a big difference. 

A few other good puppy hints:
A tired dog is a good dog. A long walk in the morning would be great exercise for him. 
A tired dog is a good dog. Exercise his brain. Feed him his breakfast out of a treat toy. Have a short obedience session in the morning before you leave. 
Take a basic obedience class (based on positive, motivational methods, no corrections or choke collars). Even if he is well behaved already, formal training is a wonderful bonding experience. It can really improve your relationship with your pet. If you find a good trainer who understands learning theory and teaches their students how to teach their dogs, you will also become a problem solver with your own dog.


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## Chelsey (Dec 17, 2004)

Hi,

Up to this Day Chester still rips up his wee, wee pad, even if he has a Kong bone or his favorite toy. He just finds it more entertaining to play with and yes he will also pee and poo on it too. So I know just how you feel about coming home to messes.. Chelsey used to do this but no longer does. I don't know for Chelsey why she stopped if it was just boredom or using the wizdog. I could leave the wee wee pad out uncovered and she will use it without ripping it up. Chester will tear it to shreds. Chester is 4 now and he goes out side most of the time unless we come home really late. Then we would setup the x-pen were he can use the wizdog.

You can crate puppy, but you have to remember his balder is still not full grown yet and he will not be able to hold it for 9 hours. If you crate him you will still come home to messes but this time you will also have to bath your puppy because he will be sitting in the mess while you’re at work unless someone takes him out at lunch. Then you may teach him that it is ok to go in his crate. 

With Chester we were home for the first month but after that we had to crate him and we did have to give him a quick bath everyday. It was not fun. I think you are better off, for now leaving him in the area he is currently in unless you can get someone to take him out at lunch. Cleaning the area up, is easier then bathing puppy and cleaning his crate everyday. I'm not sure how much room is in the bath room but you can try to place the crate in there and leave the crate door open so he can go in it and out at will. Then at least when he is old enough you will not have any issues with crating him. 

With Chelsey I was home most of the day so I could let her out to go potty on the wizdog or wee , wee, pad . So currently we create both of them while at work and also use the x-pen when we come home really late. 

I have not suggested the wizdog to you as it does not work for everyone. But it will help with the prevention of ripping up the wee wee pad. You will also have to train your puppy to use it. What we did was let puppy use the wee, wee pad and then place it in the wizdog without the grid for at least a week. Yes he may rip the pad in that time but try to do this when your home at night. So you can correct him when he tries to rip the pad. Then two or three weeks later ,place the grid on top of the pad and place puppy on top of the grid and say " go potty" do not place the grid on the pad until he has used the wee, pad in the wizdog without any issues. http://www.wizdog.com/

JMM suggestions are very good.. they really helped us with Chelsey who used to poop in her create everyday. It's going to take time. At first it frustrating and you my feel that it not working but one day your puppy is going to surprise you....and you will be so happy. Oh and don't forget the treat... that's very important. Every time he uses the wee, wee pad you Treat.


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## Ant Nay (Mar 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Chelsey_@Jul 4 2005, 12:45 PM
> *Hi,
> 
> Up to this Day Chester still rips up his wee, wee pad, even if he has a Kong bone or his favorite toy.  He just finds it more entertaining to play with and yes he will also pee and poo on it too.  So I know just how you feel about coming home to messes..  Chelsey used to do this but no longer does.  I don't know for Chelsey why she stopped if it was just boredom or using the wizdog.  I could leave the wee wee pad out uncovered  and she will use it without ripping it up.  Chester will tear it to shreds.  Chester is 4 now and he goes out side most of the time unless we come home really late.  Then we would setup the x-pen were he can use the wizdog.
> ...


[/QUOTE]


Hello I really appreciate the input from both of you. I am not a hugh fan of crating him the entire day without a relief person coming in midday, we do have a crate in his area with his food, maybe a larger area like the kitchen area might be better, I have read they do not like to go in the same area as their food and sleeping area, the bathroom area he is in is rather a large size but during the day when we are not home we do not have many options. I am going to try the WizDog and see if that helps to make him stop ripping the pad...I am more interested making him feel good rather than just not making a mess...we are also looking into a trainer to see if we can get some insight on how to help him with his separation anxiety. It is tough to be gone the entire day, but that is how it is at this point....i appreciate all the time you took to respond to my question

Have a Great Day
A.


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