# Safety with coyotes, hawks, etc.



## Dora's Mom (Nov 7, 2009)

Well first of all...I have to admit that this was all brought on because I had a bad dream last night. :blush: I dreamed that Dora and I were in the back yard and there were lions hunting us. :w00t: Obviously not a real concern in northern Alabama (heck we don't even have a zoo close by! :HistericalSmiley BUT then after I woke up I managed to freak myself out about the coyotes and various wildlife around our house.

It's not an unfounded fear, as we've actually SEEN a coyote walking along the edge of our backyard. Past the edge of our yard is a big open field, and down the road is the edge of a wildlife preserve. Our neighbors have seen a pack running around in the field during the day. I know we have large birds of prey around as well. 

Now, I have to say, I've never heard of any unfortunate incidents around here with the coyotes or hawks. And Dora is a big girl--10 pounds. But I am also a big worrywart and want to do whatever I can to make sure she stays SAFE with me...but I don't know how likely it is that anything will happen to her given that we already are very careful.

We don't let her outside at all without a leash, even for a moment. We don't have a fenced in backyard (yet) so the most freedom she gets is being on a tie-out when we are out in the yard with her. But she does go outside with us to potty and she likes to poo right at the back of the property line right by the field. If she's on a short leash with me, is a coyote really going to just snatch her off her leash? When we get a fence, can a coyote jump a 5 or 6 foot fence and grab her? Can a hawk REALLY carry off a 10 pound dog, especially if she's on a leash or tie-out? Is she too big for a hawk anyway?

I told you I was a big worrywart. :blush: But are my worries reasonable or should I try to relax? Is Dora reasonably safe or should I be doing more for her?


----------



## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

To all of your questions : YES
A coyote can easily jump a 6 feet fence.
A 10 pound dog is no match to a coyote or hawk.
If she is on a short leash I don't think a coyote by itself would take you on but you never know if he is hungry enough. A pack of coyotes is another story. I think your worries are reasonable.


----------



## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I'd carry a walking stick and pepper spray (the kind which spray travels far) if I'd seen coyotes on my property.

We have 2 huge hawks now that live on our apartment property. Just one of the reasons why Nikki pottys inside.


----------



## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

A coyote will absolutely come up and snatch them right off the leash. It's never a bad thing to worry too much.I have nightmares about them being snatched by coyotes since we have them too.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Coyotes have gotten very comfortable around humans and pose a real threat to our small pets. If you've seen a coyote in your backyard, Dora is in danger.

We had a member lose her precious Max to a coyote.

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/59-...91543-lina-needs-our-prayers-max-missing.html

Other threads on coyotes:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/49-anything-goes/80125-coyote-my-patio.html

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/49-anything-goes/80280-debs-coyote-problem.html


----------



## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Someone on SM had their dogs snatched by coyotes. Someone else I know had their Maltese puppy taken by a hawk.


----------



## Dora's Mom (Nov 7, 2009)

Yes, I already knew about all these stories.  That's why I am worried. But in most cases where coyotes have taken a small dog, the dog wasn't on a leash. I was hoping that having me close by would be a deterrent, and the leash would keep her from being carried away from me. I wasn't sure if I needed to worry about hawks as I didn't know how much they could actually lift. I still think she would be a challenge to a hawk, although a very hungry one might be motivated to give it a try. 

I don't want to keep her locked in the house though....I'll pick up some pepper spray for going in the backyard. And when we get the fence up, I'll keep her on the leash at night. I'd like to think she can at least play in the backyard during the day while I'm out with her to supervise though.


----------



## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

I've told this before, but I had two dogs taken and killed by coyotes. One was over 10 pounds and the other was about 8 pounds. Both of them were attacked at the same time one night. Unfortunately, our front door blew open, and they decided to take a walk behind our house. It was horrible. I have another friend whose two Yorkies were attacked in front of her house while the dogs were going to the potty in the front yard. Luckily one survived. If you have coyotes and no fence, I would NEVER leave them out for a moment by themselves, and I'd be very concerned for their safety even with you. Coyotes are losing their habitat due to the building in their areas, and they're become very brazen. I have read about kids being attacked by coyotes.


----------



## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm not trying to scare you, or argue, but if a coyote (or two) attacks, isn't there a small chance you might drop or loosen your grip on the leash in the confusion? 

Also, I believe that Deb's issue (the link is above) was with a rabid coyote. There is no stopping a rabid animal. 

I don't think that every dog has to stay inside if you have coyotes nearby, but definitely carry a nice-sized stick and some spray. 

I have a good friend who has been trying to shoot the coyote who is always visiting his backyard. My friend has his grand babies visiting all the time. 

Yes, they've been known to try and take small kids, too.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

If you want to carry spray, get bear repellent. That's what is recommended for vicious dogs like Pit Bulls who attack. A regular spray like Mace's Muzzle will not stop a determined predator.

Amazon.com: Mace Security International Animal Repellent Bear Pepper Spray 260gm: Home & Garden


----------



## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

Sorry, but I would never try to stop a coyote with a stick, even a large stick. I can't even imagine. I don't remember who said that, but have you SEEN a coyote? We see them all the time on the golf course behind our house, and there's no way I'd even consider that a large stick would stop one if it attacked. Whew!


----------



## spookiesmom (Mar 28, 2010)

The first one I saw around here I thought was the sorriest German Shepherd Dog I'd ever seen and was ready to stop and pick up this "stray". Once in a while somebody looses a pet, usually a cat, and the paper says if you see one to make a lot of noise to scare it away. I live next to a linear park, and they are known to use it to move around at night. I have a 4' fence, with another fence about 12 feet into the yard. My 45 and 60 pound granddoggies are in the yard more than Spookie, and I know neither of them would let any 2 or 4 footed being in the yard.

When I got Spookie, I could hear an owl calling at night. I was afraid she would look like a rabbit, and called a local bird sanctuary. They were of the opinion she didn't/wouldn't look like a snack. We do have osprey here, but they go fishing, and do quite well! Red tailed hawks, and once I saw a bald eagle. I do worry, snakes scare me more than anything else.

It is amazing to me that with all the population, cars, people, life here, that there is any wild life around to worry about.


----------



## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

coco said:


> Sorry, but I would never try to stop a coyote with a stick, even a large stick. I can't even imagine. I don't remember who said that, but have you SEEN a coyote? We see them all the time on the golf course behind our house, and there's no way I'd even consider that a large stick would stop one if it attacked. Whew!


Yes, I've seen them. 

A heavy stick or even a piece of metal pipe is better than nothing at all. If you make a lot of noise and raise a stick threateningly, sometimes they'll go away. 

I'm an animal lover, but coyotes are too much of a threat to small dogs and kids. I don't blame my friend for wanting to shoot them.


----------



## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

Hate to say it but when I walk my dogs in the day time,I carry a gun. I'm an animal lover as much as anyone can be,if they leave me alone,I leave them alone.But attack my fluffs,that's messing w/ family as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

michellerobison said:


> Hate to say it but when I walk my dogs in the day time,I carry a gun. I'm an animal lover as much as anyone can be,if they leave me alone,I leave them alone.But attack my fluffs,that's messing w/ family as far as I'm concerned.



If I walked Nikki in a coyote-prone area, I'd bring my gun, too. :thumbsup:


----------



## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

I know how scary it can be for someone with a precious fluff to live near coyotes, hawks and others who are known for snaching and killing our lil fluffs  Stay safe all you beautiful dear maltese! 

I am glad that we don't have these in the city where we live. 



michellerobison said:


> I carry a gun.


Are you allowed to carry a gun? 

It isn't allowed here unless it had to do with your profession (e.g. policeman). 

It will be interesting to learn how is it like there. Can anyone carry a gun?

Kat


----------



## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

The US Constitution's 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. Gun laws vary from state to state. In my state, you must have a Concealed Weapons Permit. When you apply for the permit, they do a background check, and take your fingerprints. When you purchase a gun, they also do a background check. I took a marksmanship class before I even considered owning a gun. I've owned one for a couple of years now, and I try to practice what I learned in class at an indoor gun range every once in a while when I think of it. I see no problem with law-abiding people owning guns. I have no children at home, so there is no risk of kids getting into it.


----------



## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

Nikki's Mom said:


> The US Constitution's 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. Gun laws vary from state to state. In my state, you must have a Concealed Weapons Permit. When you apply for the permit, they do a background check, and take your fingerprints. When you purchase a gun, they also do a background check. I took a marksmanship class before I even considered owning a gun. I've owned one for a couple of years now, and I try to practice what I learned in class at an indoor gun range every once in a while when I think of it. I see no problem with law-abiding people owning guns. I have no children at home, so there is no risk of kids getting into it.


Thank you so much for providing this info, Suzan ^_^ 

Very interesting. 

wow! It is for sure so different here. 

I hope that they don't change the Law here regarding this. I am happy with it this way  

hugs
Kat


----------



## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

TheMalts&Me said:


> Thank you so much for providing this info, Suzan ^_^
> 
> Very interesting.
> 
> ...



Switzerland has a very low crime rate, yet they have the highest rate of gun ownership in the world. Law-abiding, legal gun owners are not responsible for increasing crime rates. They own guns for sporting purposes (like skeet shooting or hunting) or for self-defense. I've yet to meet a legal gun owner who was a violent person or had any desire to do anything with a gun but to defend their life and property.


----------



## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

TheMalts&Me said:


> I know how scary it can be for someone with a precious fluff to live near coyotes, hawks and others who are known for snaching and killing our lil fluffs  Stay safe all you beautiful dear maltese!
> 
> I am glad that we don't have these in the city where we live.
> 
> ...


If you take the Consealed Carry course and pass a background check,it's legal to carry a gun in the US. You're restricted where you can have it,mostly near schools or restaurants that serve alcohol,which makes perfect sense... We don'[t worry about the people with concealed carry permits,we worry about the ones who carry and DON'T have CCP.

My husband and I took the Concealed Carry course and had background checks to carry a gun. We did this when we opened our jewellery store since we do carry cash and jewels for shows. We also live out in the country where there's only a couple houses in a mile, so it's isolated. Most people in the country own guns,which is probably why we don't have as much crime as in the city. Al grew up hunting as a kid so he's handled guns his whole life,we're both former military too.


----------



## Maltsnme (Feb 7, 2009)

Dora's Mom said:


> Well first of all...I have to admit that this was all brought on because I had a bad dream last night. :blush: I dreamed that Dora and I were in the back yard and there were lions hunting us. :w00t: Obviously not a real concern in northern Alabama (heck we don't even have a zoo close by! :HistericalSmiley BUT then after I woke up I managed to freak myself out about the coyotes and various wildlife around our house.
> 
> It's not an unfounded fear, as we've actually SEEN a coyote walking along the edge of our backyard. Past the edge of our yard is a big open field, and down the road is the edge of a wildlife preserve. Our neighbors have seen a pack running around in the field during the day. I know we have large birds of prey around as well.
> 
> ...


First of all, coyotes will and do come right up to porches and steal dogs and they do snatch them, even if on leash. Honestly, they are strong and would probably snatch the leash right out of your hand... let alone on a tie out. 

Other issue I wanted to point out, tie outs can and do cause behavior problems. When the dog hits the end of the tie out and feels the jerk of the collar against its neck, it does not associate that with the actual LEASH/COLLAR. It generalizes it, to its environment. Meaning, for instance, if the neighbor walked out of their house and the dog hit the end of the leash, initially, to greet the neighbor, eventually, the dog can associate the neighbor with the pain of the collar/neck being jerked. This can make the dog aggressive towards people in general because they think the PERSON is causing the uncomfortable (at the least) feeling around their neck. That is why you see dogs that are tied out, acting out aggressively or crazy with adrenline. So, just a word of caution, other than the original issue. Don't tie dogs out on tie outs!!! (and physically, it can cause neck and spinal injuries too)


----------



## Dora's Mom (Nov 7, 2009)

maltsnme said:


> Other issue I wanted to point out, tie outs can and do cause behavior problems. When the dog hits the end of the tie out and feels the jerk of the collar against its neck, it does not associate that with the actual LEASH/COLLAR. It generalizes it, to its environment. Meaning, for instance, if the neighbor walked out of their house and the dog hit the end of the leash, initially, to greet the neighbor, eventually, the dog can associate the neighbor with the pain of the collar/neck being jerked. This can make the dog aggressive towards people in general because they think the PERSON is causing the uncomfortable (at the least) feeling around their neck. That is why you see dogs that are tied out, acting out aggressively or crazy with adrenline. So, just a word of caution, other than the original issue. Don't tie dogs out on tie outs!!! (and physically, it can cause neck and spinal injuries too)


Thanks. As I said, we only have her on a tie-out while we're right there in the yard with her, and she's on her harness, not collar. Usually she hits the end of the tie out once and then is happy to roll around in the grass on her own.  If it seemed to be stressing her out we'd just go back inside. It's only temporary until we get our fence.

Also, it's good to know that I can keep worrying about Dora being snatched by coyotes. Maybe the wildlife preserve nearby will provide enough natural prey for them so that they won't be desperate enough to take me on to get to Dora. It's not like she's the only thing to eat around here.


----------



## Maltsnme (Feb 7, 2009)

Dora's Mom said:


> Thanks. As I said, we only have her on a tie-out while we're right there in the yard with her, and she's on her harness, not collar. Usually she hits the end of the tie out once and then is happy to roll around in the grass on her own.  If it seemed to be stressing her out we'd just go back inside. It's only temporary until we get our fence.
> 
> Also, it's good to know that I can keep worrying about Dora being snatched by coyotes. Maybe the wildlife preserve nearby will provide enough natural prey for them so that they won't be desperate enough to take me on to get to Dora. It's not like she's the only thing to eat around here.


It is a real danger. We have RTHs in our area and when I sun the girls I put a cover over the pen and a mesquito net too! I worry about everything, working 25 years in a vet's office, trust me, I see alot!!!!


----------



## Maltese&LabMommy (Apr 20, 2010)

I also worry about this! But in my "neck of the woods" we have Mongoose. Which are only slightly larger then Ponyo, but they sure will get her up in a heartbeat! Also Snakes are a HUGE concern for us! We have Okinawa Habu that we have seen quite a few times in our front and back yards! SCARY!!!


----------



## Tanner's Mom (May 27, 2005)

A company called Roll Guard makes a device called the Coyote Roller. It's just what it sounds, a roll bar at the top of the fence that inhibits coyote from going over the top. You might want to check into it.


----------



## Delilahs Mommy (Nov 22, 2009)

It worries me a great deal to, even though we have a 4 foot chain link and 8 foot wooden privacy fence around our backyard. I have seen many hawks and I even saw a coyote, and we live in a large subdivision! Our neigbor behind us has a 2 acre track and its all woods just about. So lots of birds and even raccoons and possums!

So Delilah doesn't' go outside, unless I am with her and I have her on a leash. Every once and a while I will let her go and run around in the grass for a few minutes. But, I am paranoid. I am wanting to get a small covered dog pen, so I can set her outside for a little bit and not worried about her getting into something.


----------



## missiek (Jan 2, 2010)

I live out in the country as well and have seen coyotes and hawks and also stray dogs that could attack a small dog. We only have a picket fence in the backyard, but i ALWAYS go outside with them. I am so paranoid, not only of other animals, but of people as well. It would be too easy for someone to steal one of these tiny fluffs!!


----------



## CeeCee's Mom (Sep 14, 2006)

Dora's Mom said:


> Yes, I already knew about all these stories.  That's why I am worried. But in most cases where coyotes have taken a small dog, the dog wasn't on a leash. I was hoping that having me close by would be a deterrent, and the leash would keep her from being carried away from me. I wasn't sure if I needed to worry about hawks as I didn't know how much they could actually lift. I still think she would be a challenge to a hawk, although a very hungry one might be motivated to give it a try.
> 
> I don't want to keep her locked in the house though....I'll pick up some pepper spray for going in the backyard. And when we get the fence up, I'll keep her on the leash at night. I'd like to think she can at least play in the backyard during the day while I'm out with her to supervise though.


Just make sure you have a very sturdy harness and not the vest that are velcroed because they possible could break that loose with a smart grab.

We had a hawk her in NC grab a little mixed breed white dog and carry it off, only to drop it in air and broke the little ones leg.....it was a miracle that the dog survived. I think if you stay right with her and you have a very sturdy lease and harness, you are as safe as you can be..........


----------



## Mindi's mom (Aug 24, 2010)

Very interesting! Mindi & I were going for a walk around the neighborhood and a RTH circled (doing that loud scream) and followed us for about a 1/2 mile. I freaked out. I picked her up, turned around & headed for the house. I thought I happened to be where it was. Then, I realized it was following us. As soon as I got in the house I did a search for "hawks" & came across this thread. Will a hawk grab her up if she is on a short leash right next to me? We have a lot of RTH by my house. Sometimes 3 or 4 at a time. 1 out almost every afternoon. Mindi loves going on her daily walks and she goes potty outside every couple of hours. What do I do to keep her safe besides pee pee pads and night time walks?


----------



## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

We have hawks here. I have never seen a coyote but they are around. I think the best we can do is to be aware of our surroundings, and never let our fluffs out by themselves. I do have a fenced-in yard and I never let my girls go outside without me or without a leash and harness. I do look around when I take them outside. Here in NC, hawks are most active in the fall. We are in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains, so I hope all the coyotes are staying up there!:blink:


----------

