# Can you help me figure this one out please?



## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

Ok, what is this all about? Looks like they've got some nice dogs. No mention of papers or showing. Are they just breeding?

http://www.pets4you.com/pages/whitediamonds.html


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

Try contacting them. I tried to contact them many times 1.5 years ago and I never could reach them so I assumed it was an outdated site. But I see the site has been updated in the last 6 months.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

The whole thing smells fishy to me.  

Someone should ask narae who has 5 K Diamond.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Bonnie says she is not familiar with Shinemore Maltese. So whomever wrote it doesn't have their facts straight. Shinemore shouldn't have any Bonnie's Angels in their breeding program as far as Bonnie knows.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Scam
Google the phone number and find all the other breeds they offer.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

What-a-Mug Bulldogges
Olde English Bulldogges 

The number also came up on Ripoffreport.com


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

It says that they have one dog from Shinemore, one from Bonnie and one from Christman.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

Sophia can you ask Bonnie who has Illusion?


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## Vanitysmom (Jun 9, 2005)

QUOTE (Purple-peep @ Mar 2 2010, 05:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891859


> Ok, what is this all about? Looks like they've got some nice dogs. No mention of papers or showing. Are they just breeding?
> 
> http://www.pets4you.com/pages/whitediamonds.html[/B]


There are several problems with this website. First off.....they stole pictures from Chrisman Maltese a couple of years ago and built their website around them. Of course the pictures were eventually removed. So knowing this, I am very doubtful of the website being honest. Secondly, I would probably want DNA proof from any puppies supposedly sired from the supposed Chrisman male as I had heard that that particular male was sterile. Plus in looking at the picture of the supposed Chrisman dog they have listed, it really doesn't look, to me, like a Chrisman dog.


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## sophie (Jul 9, 2006)

I sent a message to Narae Lee.

Linda


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## moshi melo (Jul 2, 2009)

It seems like a greeder either stole the pictures or got a hold of nice dogs and are breeding them and tarnishing the lines of the original breeders. 

I saw that a few months ago and I emailed Narae about the pictures. She told me she did sell 5 Karat Diamond, but she did not know they were breeding her dog. She said she emailed them and told them take the pictures down, but apparently they didn't.

Sometimes greeders will buy a dog from a reputable breeder then breed them, and then name drop famous Breeder's names to say they have "Champion lines" etc. Unfortunately, even reputable breeders can't control what happens to their dogs after they are sold.


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

QUOTE (Vanitysmom @ Mar 3 2010, 07:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891890


> Plus in looking at the picture of the supposed Chrisman dog they have listed, it really doesn't look, to me, like a Chrisman dog.[/B]


That's what I thought too.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

That isn't a Christman dog picture. I looked him up B) 

I don't think they have any of those dogs. Most likely they suck people in with the pretty pictures and them sell them puppy mill dogs.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

OMG,

I called the number and spoke with a JoAnn. 

She was using the dogs for breeding! She talked about "karot" He and all her females were sold to someone in Texas. I'm just sick over this. That sweet little boy must be in some mill. :crying: I want him! Damm greeders!


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

This just gets better:

Hi Anne He is 4500 dollars firm on price.. she won't sell him for less. are you interested if I find out weight and I do know he is adorable and cut down. I am sure she takes good care of them.





-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Marie Sojewicz <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 5:09 pm
Subject: Karot


Hi,

If you can find out more about Karot and if the new owner would be interested in letting him go that would be great.

Thanks,
Anne


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

From: [email protected]


She has the parti Yorkies . she only will talk if someone really wants him . I had 4500 in him and Karen paid me back.
I will ask her for pictures of him . Lets see if I can get some for you. He is exquisite and I know is about 5 pds. short nose good pigment. adorable little guy and I think she has had a litter by him or maybe several ?



What should I write her back???


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

Write back that you want to see pictures!!!

Aww I feel so bad that Narea's dog's are in the hands of these greeders. I want to see if it's really him and if he looks well.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

I've asked for pictures. Poor guy! You know he's my favorite malt on Shinemores site. I look at his picture all the time. Is this strange or what!


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

QUOTE (Purple-peep @ Mar 3 2010, 09:27 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891919


> From: [email protected]
> 
> 
> She has the parti Yorkies . she only will talk if someone really wants him . I had 4500 in him and Karen paid me back.
> ...


Are you serious? Why would you want to?!? She sounds like an unethical person/breeder and why would you want to get involved with someone like that? And all the other posts saying how this is a scam?! And you're still interested? wow.

So she sold her dogs..to someone else..and then will get him back to sell to you for $4500? What? Or is she a broker? And what are 'parti Yorkies'. Seriously, all of this sounds like trouble.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

At this point I want to see if it's really him. What they are doing is so wrong!


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (Purple-peep @ Mar 2 2010, 08:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891933


> At this point I want to see if it's really him. What they are doing is so wrong![/B]


Exactly, she wouldn't pay anything to these loonies. LOL I wonder if Narea could do anything about this, but unfortunately, I doubt it.

ETA: Then tell those greeders that Chris and Manny never sold that Chrisman dog! Ha-ha then they'll probably stop talking to you.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

This is so wrong that Karot has fallen in the the hands of these people!

Can narae do anything about this? Could she get the dog back?

I feel that this boy needs to be rescued somehow! Oh and yes I wouldn't send these loons one penny LOL!

I have to play along to get the info.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

Latest email:

He is only 4 pds she said. very pretty. I do not know if she ever registered him AKC. I will ask.


Waiting on pictures.

We know he's in Texas with Karen who sells parti yorkies.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

I think I found him

http://www.starlightsyorkies.com/maltesemales.html


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

QUOTE (Purple-peep @ Mar 2 2010, 06:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891940


> I think I found him
> 
> http://www.starlightsyorkies.com/maltesemales.html[/B]



She is breeding the Malt stud to Shih Tsus.


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## Snow White (Dec 6, 2009)

QUOTE (princessre @ Mar 2 2010, 05:57 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891870


> Bonnie says she is not familiar with Shinemore Maltese. So whomever wrote it doesn't have their facts straight. Shinemore shouldn't have any Bonnie's Angels in their breeding program as far as Bonnie knows.[/B]


How do you know Bonnie is not familiar with Shinemore Maltese? I know for a fact that Narae Lee spent a summer at Bonnie's kennel.


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

QUOTE (Purple-peep @ Mar 2 2010, 08:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891940


> I think I found him
> 
> http://www.starlightsyorkies.com/maltesemales.html[/B]


OMG I know someone that bought a yorkie from this breeder.


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## Snow White (Dec 6, 2009)

QUOTE (Romo's Mommy @ Mar 2 2010, 10:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891959


> QUOTE (princessre @ Mar 2 2010, 05:57 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891870





> Bonnie says she is not familiar with Shinemore Maltese. So whomever wrote it doesn't have their facts straight. Shinemore shouldn't have any Bonnie's Angels in their breeding program as far as Bonnie knows.[/B]


How do you know Bonnie is not familiar with Shinemore Maltese? I know for a fact that Narae Lee spent a summer at Bonnie's kennel.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I was just curious only b/c the link nor the OP mentioned anything about Shinemore and Bonnie being linked.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

Can't anything be done to get him away from these terrible people?????? :smcry:


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

QUOTE (Purple-peep @ Mar 3 2010, 10:02 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891940


> http://www.starlightsyorkies.com/maltesemales.html[/B]


wow-someone has some really bad photoshop skills!! The bows are so clearly placed and they really jacked up the eye area of that little boy. It's totally chopped off. They need to enroll asap in their local community college's Photoshop class. lol.

Sadly, there is probably nothing anyone can do if the breeder did sell them the dog.


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

QUOTE (shanghaimomma @ Mar 2 2010, 11:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891983


> QUOTE (Purple-peep @ Mar 3 2010, 10:02 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891940





> http://www.starlightsyorkies.com/maltesemales.html[/B]


wow-someone has some really bad photoshop skills!! The bows are so clearly placed and they really jacked up the eye area of that little boy. It's totally chopped off. They need to enroll asap in their local community college's Photoshop class. lol.

Sadly, there is probably nothing anyone can do if the breeder did sell them the dog.
[/B][/QUOTE]

that enhancement is horrible isn't it? Back when we were discussing Korean breeders and "enhancing" photos, I was thinking about this starlight site because I had seen it before and how horrible their photoshopping skills were. She actually tried to make the eyes bigger and noses shorter on her dogs.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

What I'd like to know,does this happen often? If so, how do reputable breeders prevent it?

I also have a bad feeling that one of Bonnie's dogs in involved as well. The first owner sold 9 females along with Karot. :w00t: 

It just makes me sick, her breeding him with so many different kinds of dogs! I also wonder what kind of conditions they are all living in. :smcry:


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

QUOTE (Romo's Mommy @ Mar 2 2010, 10:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891959


> QUOTE (princessre @ Mar 2 2010, 05:57 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891870





> Bonnie says she is not familiar with Shinemore Maltese. So whomever wrote it doesn't have their facts straight. Shinemore shouldn't have any Bonnie's Angels in their breeding program as far as Bonnie knows.[/B]


How do you know Bonnie is not familiar with Shinemore Maltese? I know for a fact that Narae Lee spent a summer at Bonnie's kennel.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Because I asked Bonnie when I visited her in December-- because I had heard that Shinemore had Angels in their program and was curious about it. I asked Bonnie several times, and she said she was not familar with Shinemore.


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

QUOTE (Vanitysmom @ Mar 2 2010, 06:45 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891890


> There are several problems with this website. First off.....they stole pictures from Chrisman Maltese a couple of years ago and built their website around them. Of course the pictures were eventually removed. So knowing this, I am very doubtful of the website being honest. Secondly, I would probably want DNA proof from any puppies supposedly sired from the supposed Chrisman male as I had heard that that particular male was sterile. Plus in looking at the picture of the supposed Chrisman dog they have listed, it really doesn't look, to me, like a Chrisman dog.[/B]


Wow, good to know, thank you!!  

QUOTE (shanghaimomma @ Mar 2 2010, 07:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891905


> QUOTE (Vanitysmom @ Mar 3 2010, 07:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891890





> Plus in looking at the picture of the supposed Chrisman dog they have listed, it really doesn't look, to me, like a Chrisman dog.[/B]


That's what I thought too.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Me three! Looks nothing like a Chrisman. :HistericalSmiley: :no2: 

QUOTE (shanghaimomma @ Mar 3 2010, 12:21 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891983


> QUOTE (Purple-peep @ Mar 3 2010, 10:02 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=891940





> http://www.starlightsyorkies.com/maltesemales.html[/B]


wow-someone has some really bad photoshop skills!! The bows are so clearly placed and they really jacked up the eye area of that little boy. It's totally chopped off. They need to enroll asap in their local community college's Photoshop class. lol.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Andrea, LOL!! :HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley:


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

The only way something could be done is
1. The breeder is violating a law and animal control seizes the dogs.
2. The dog is sold on a contract that can be upheld in a court and the original seller goes after this person.


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## Carole (Nov 1, 2005)

With permission.

"Thanks Carole!

Unfortunately, we already know about this character.
She got caught with stolen pictures of our dogs on her web site a while ago.

Her nephew is an AKC Judge. She supposedly got a small part of our bloodline from an AKC Judge named Carol Jean Nelson to whom we sold a male to. Ms. Nelson finished him and was under contract not to stud him out to females that she did not own or sell any offspring into breeding situations, but apparently, she did anyway. The ironic thing is that our males' DNA is not on file at the AKC, and Ms Nelson wont send it in, so there is some question to this day as to whether or not White Diamondz' dogs are really out of our male. We are currently waiting to hear back from the AKC as to what they plan on doing about this.
The dogs on her site look nothing like ours. It is the case where, from time to time, backyard breeders try to capitalize on or kennel name to sell their pets. This is why we registered our kennel name many years ago.

Thanks again, for bringing this to our attention.

Christopher & Manny

(permission to cross-post, if you want)"


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

I'm glad they're aware of the situation with these people.

Thank you for posting this!


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

This sickens me. I was going to say that doesn't Shinemore sell it's dogs with a spay/neuter contract and wouldn't this be in violation???


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

QUOTE (Snowbody @ Mar 3 2010, 09:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=892197


> This sickens me. I was going to say that doesn't Shinemore sell it's dogs with a spay/neuter contract and wouldn't this be in violation???[/B]



Unfortunately, even if there is a contract, any contract is only as good as the willingness of any party involved to enforce it, and that would be a tough thing to do when in this case the seller is in Korea and the buyer is in the U.S. A person can sell an AKC registered puppy on a limited registration which means that if the the dog is bred its offspring cannot be AKC registered. But that only matters to people who want to sell AKC registered puppies ... and we all have seen the ads for puppies being sold with registration papers from other meaningless registries. I don't know if there is any vehicle for limited registration when importing a foreign dog. If there is a means of selling with limited registration then that's what the seller should be doing if they don't want the dog they sold used for breeding. If there is no means for limited registration, then the only way I can think of for trying to prevent a breeding is by the seller staying on the paperwork as a co-owner. And that only works in the case of a bitch where both co-owners need to sign the litter registration form for any puppies born. In the case of the sire, even if there are multiple co-owners, only one owner needs to sign the litter registration form. The AKC will not step into a dispute between seller and buyer as they really have no legal jurisdiction to decide who is right or wrong. They will, however, abide by any court judgment should one of the parties decide to sue the other. I've not heard directly from anyone who has purchased from Shinemore, only through the rumor mill, that they do not sell their puppies on a contract. I have no idea if there is any truth to that.

MaryH


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## myfairlacy (Dec 28, 2007)

I just wish people would be honest...these dishonest people will make it harder to get a puppy from reputable breeders. Just hard to trust people sometimes... The only way to truly prevent puppies from being bred is to spay or neuter them before they are placed in their new homes. I know a few yorkie breeders that spay/neuter before they go to their new homes. It's pretty common with cat breeders to spay/neuter kittens before placing them as well. My persian, sophie, came to me spayed as a kitten.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

I'm wondering if Karot was sold as a show dog? Both parents are CH and look how beautiful he is.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

QUOTE (MaryH @ Mar 3 2010, 09:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=892206


> QUOTE (Snowbody @ Mar 3 2010, 09:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=892197





> This sickens me. I was going to say that doesn't SXXXXmore sell it's dogs with a spay/neuter contract and wouldn't this be in violation???[/B]



Unfortunately, even if there is a contract, any contract is only as good as the willingness of any party involved to enforce it, and that would be a tough thing to do when in this case the seller is in Korea and the buyer is in the U.S. A person can sell an AKC registered puppy on a limited registration which means that if the the dog is bred its offspring cannot be AKC registered. But that only matters to people who want to sell AKC registered puppies ... and we all have seen the ads for puppies being sold with registration papers from other meaningless registries. I don't know if there is any vehicle for limited registration when importing a foreign dog. If there is a means of selling with limited registration then that's what the seller should be doing if they don't want the dog they sold used for breeding. If there is no means for limited registration, then the only way I can think of for trying to prevent a breeding is by the seller staying on the paperwork as a co-owner. And that only works in the case of a bitch where both co-owners need to sign the litter registration form for any puppies born. In the case of the sire, even if there are multiple co-owners, only one owner needs to sign the litter registration form. The AKC will not step into a dispute between seller and buyer as they really have no legal jurisdiction to decide who is right or wrong. They will, however, abide by any court judgment should one of the parties decide to sue the other. I've not heard directly from anyone who has purchased from ShXXXmore, only through the rumor mill, that they do not sell their puppies on a contract. I have no idea if there is any truth to that.

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]

I believe Des said that when she got her baby...won't say the breeder's name in this response so it won't show up in google searches for all the greeders out there but we all know who it is, that she does not have contracts. This does concern me that when purchasing from another country where they don't have the same guidelines as we do with the AMA, and us promoting them so much on a well known forum, that it is possibly paving the way for the greeders to get their hands on some of these precious babies for less then ethical reasons.

Another reason why I prefer to go to a breeder who breeds on a smaller scale that is somewhat close enough for visits, regular contact, and has these types of contracts that can be upheld here in this country.

Please remember, there are some GORGEOUS babies here from really great breeders that we don't hear much about. And I've been totally shocked at how in the past few months, I've found 3 that more then fit my criteria. I'm just not quite ready yet and was starting to make contacts early.


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## notori (Mar 21, 2005)

QUOTE (Crystal&Zoe @ Mar 4 2010, 01:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=892376


> QUOTE (MaryH @ Mar 3 2010, 09:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=892206





> QUOTE (Snowbody @ Mar 3 2010, 09:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=892197





> This sickens me. I was going to say that doesn't SXXXXmore sell it's dogs with a spay/neuter contract and wouldn't this be in violation???[/B]



Unfortunately, even if there is a contract, any contract is only as good as the willingness of any party involved to enforce it, and that would be a tough thing to do when in this case the seller is in Korea and the buyer is in the U.S. A person can sell an AKC registered puppy on a limited registration which means that if the the dog is bred its offspring cannot be AKC registered. But that only matters to people who want to sell AKC registered puppies ... and we all have seen the ads for puppies being sold with registration papers from other meaningless registries. I don't know if there is any vehicle for limited registration when importing a foreign dog. If there is a means of selling with limited registration then that's what the seller should be doing if they don't want the dog they sold used for breeding. If there is no means for limited registration, then the only way I can think of for trying to prevent a breeding is by the seller staying on the paperwork as a co-owner. And that only works in the case of a bitch where both co-owners need to sign the litter registration form for any puppies born. In the case of the sire, even if there are multiple co-owners, only one owner needs to sign the litter registration form. The AKC will not step into a dispute between seller and buyer as they really have no legal jurisdiction to decide who is right or wrong. They will, however, abide by any court judgment should one of the parties decide to sue the other. I've not heard directly from anyone who has purchased from ShXXXmore, only through the rumor mill, that they do not sell their puppies on a contract. I have no idea if there is any truth to that.

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]

I believe Des said that when she got her baby...won't say the breeder's name in this response so it won't show up in google searches for all the greeders out there but we all know who it is, that she does not have contracts. This does concern me that when purchasing from another country where they don't have the same guidelines as we do with the AMA, and us promoting them so much on a well known forum, that it is possibly paving the way for the greeders to get their hands on some of these precious babies for less then ethical reasons.

Another reason why I prefer to go to a breeder who breeds on a smaller scale that is somewhat close enough for visits, regular contact, and has these types of contracts that can be upheld here in this country.

Please remember, there are some GORGEOUS babies here from really great breeders that we don't hear much about. And I've been totally shocked at how in the past few months, I've found 3 that more then fit my criteria. I'm just not quite ready yet and was starting to make contacts early.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Lee (Narea) is a very trusting person, but, she is not as trusting any more as people have taken advantage.
Char


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## mfa (Oct 5, 2009)

QUOTE (Crystal&Zoe @ Mar 4 2010, 01:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=892376


> QUOTE (MaryH @ Mar 3 2010, 09:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=892206





> QUOTE (Snowbody @ Mar 3 2010, 09:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=892197





> This sickens me. I was going to say that doesn't SXXXXmore sell it's dogs with a spay/neuter contract and wouldn't this be in violation???[/B]



Unfortunately, even if there is a contract, any contract is only as good as the willingness of any party involved to enforce it, and that would be a tough thing to do when in this case the seller is in Korea and the buyer is in the U.S. A person can sell an AKC registered puppy on a limited registration which means that if the the dog is bred its offspring cannot be AKC registered. But that only matters to people who want to sell AKC registered puppies ... and we all have seen the ads for puppies being sold with registration papers from other meaningless registries. I don't know if there is any vehicle for limited registration when importing a foreign dog. If there is a means of selling with limited registration then that's what the seller should be doing if they don't want the dog they sold used for breeding. If there is no means for limited registration, then the only way I can think of for trying to prevent a breeding is by the seller staying on the paperwork as a co-owner. And that only works in the case of a bitch where both co-owners need to sign the litter registration form for any puppies born. In the case of the sire, even if there are multiple co-owners, only one owner needs to sign the litter registration form. The AKC will not step into a dispute between seller and buyer as they really have no legal jurisdiction to decide who is right or wrong. They will, however, abide by any court judgment should one of the parties decide to sue the other. I've not heard directly from anyone who has purchased from ShXXXmore, only through the rumor mill, that they do not sell their puppies on a contract. I have no idea if there is any truth to that.

MaryH
[/B][/QUOTE]

I believe Des said that when she got her baby...won't say the breeder's name in this response so it won't show up in google searches for all the greeders out there but we all know who it is, that she does not have contracts. This does concern me that when purchasing from another country where they don't have the same guidelines as we do with the AMA, and us promoting them so much on a well known forum, that it is possibly paving the way for the greeders to get their hands on some of these precious babies for less then ethical reasons.

Another reason why I prefer to go to a breeder who breeds on a smaller scale that is somewhat close enough for visits, regular contact, and has these types of contracts that can be upheld here in this country.

Please remember, there are some GORGEOUS babies here from really great breeders that we don't hear much about. And I've been totally shocked at how in the past few months, I've found 3 that more then fit my criteria. I'm just not quite ready yet and was starting to make contacts early.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Crystal, very :goodpost:


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