# Mikie STILL not potty trained..... we need help badly...



## M&Ms (Jul 8, 2008)

We've got Maggie & Mikie, male and female - just neutered/spayed babies. Maggie is 8 months old and pretty well trained on the piddle pads and will go outside when we're home.

Mikie... on the other hand just doesn't seem to be getting it.. Every day we put them in an x-pen about 4x2x4 in the kitchen. Inside is their bed, which they always lay in together, food and water, a few toys and a piddle pad at the other end.

We know Maggie will use the piddle pad, she just took to it from early on - even when she has her free run play time she uses it if she's not out in the yard with us.

Mikie.. started lifting his leg a week before he was neutered and hasn't stopped. He's almost 6 months (24th) and he pee's on the x-pen, his toys, the side of their bed... WHEREVER he pleases!! I'm getting sooooo frustrated washing their bed and toys everyday I don't know what to do anymore.

When I get home from work and say "want to go outside to potty??!!" - I let them out and they both RUN so fast down the stairs to the yard and Mikie always pees/poops in the same spot. I praise, praise, praise and give them both treats for going outside and they know this... yet Mikie STILL pees over everything inside .

He will poop on the piddle pad inside... I don't understand. We need help. I can't stand the smell everyday when I come home (I'm so sorry, but I'm going in for back surgery in 8 weeks and will be immobilized for 3-6 months). I mop the kitchen floor everyday, I wash their bed and toys everyday in the machine.... but I think his pee is getting "soaked" into the grout in my ceramic tile because it was never sealed.

It smells of pee in the kitchen and I am at my wits end. Mikie is the cutest, most adorable boy ever, but if we don't get him trained I don't know if I can keep this up...

Please, please give your suggestions... I'm so sure we're doing something wrong and it's our way of training him that's the problem... we do repremand him.. but I hate to raise my voice to him.

Please help somebody... and in "detail" if you can... 

The puppies are alone 8 hours a day. Maybe that's the problem... but we work and don't have another choice...


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

You may have to resort to belly bands for Mikie until he gets the hang of it. If you can find someone to come
in at noon to walk or let him outside for a bit that may help. Inside he is marking his territory and right now
everything is HIS. I would use belly bands. You can buy them on the net or make some yourself. I think we 
even have people on SM that make them
You can also spray Bitter Apple on areas he tends to lift. It may help too.


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## Harley & Dakotas Mum (Jun 11, 2005)

When you clean, I'm sure you are being very thorough, yet the 'pee' smell is very hard to get rid of. If he can still smell it, he will only pee again to 'mark'. 

If there are ever any accidents here, I always clean/mop with disinfectant, then I will go over the area again with plain (undiluted) white vinegar. I keep it in a spray bottle & just spray the area, then wipe it over with a kitchen paper towel. I also put white vinegar in the washing machine when washing anything that I think may have been 'pee'd' on - White vinegar will neutralise odour - it doesnt just mask the scent, it neutralises. If you haven't already, give good old plain white vinegar a try next time you need to clean anything.


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## bluesyinpa (Dec 9, 2006)

It sounds like he's marking his territory. Make sure you use vinegar like Harley & Dakotas Mum suggested or a good enzymatic cleaner like Nature's Miracle. Use a lot of it and really let it soak in. You may have to use belly bands until you can get better control over the situation. Chase marks, but outside only, when one of the girls pees, he races over to mark over their spot. Is there any way you can gate Maggie into another area so she's not in all the pee soaked stuff and not giving him competition?

Rita


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (bluesyinpa @ Sep 11 2008, 06:29 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=633615


> It sounds like he's marking his territory. Make sure you use vinegar like Harley & Dakotas Mum suggested or a good enzymatic cleaner like Nature's Miracle. Use a lot of it and really let it soak in. You may have to use belly bands until you can get better control over the situation. Chase marks, but outside only, when one of the girls pees, he races over to mark over their spot. Is there any way you can gate Maggie into another area so she's not in all the pee soaked stuff and not giving him competition?
> 
> Rita[/B]


I agree. Mikie is marking his territory which is different than regular housetraining. If he was just neutered you can hope that he will stop marking once the hormones settle down. Unfortunately, once they start marking often they don't stop even after being neutered.

I agree with the others. Get some belly bands to save your sanity.


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## M&Ms (Jul 8, 2008)

Thanks everyone. Yes, I clean thoroughly - with Nature's Miracle, then I go over the floor with diluted bleach to disinfect. When I say "smell", I'm talking about when I walk into the kitchen from work in the afternoon and Mikie has already pee'd... after I clean, it's okay and the odor is taken away. And his bed, of course, will smell of urine if he's gone on it - but I wish I didn't have to throw it in the washing machine each and every day.

I don't give him run in any other part of the house at all.. only the kitchen, back deck and yard. Maggie can run from one end of the house to the other, and will always seek out her piddle pad to "go", or she'll go outdoors.

The belly bands... how exactly do they work? Wouldn't he get himself all wet each time he went? Would this help him to squat again? He sometimes does squat to pee, it's not 100% lifting to pee. 

Also, he holds it in all night long and BOLTS out the door to go in the morning outside. So, I know he can hold it.. I am just doing something wrong and don't know how to resolve it.

Maybe if I don't leave his water down all day.. but that somehow doesn't sound healthy. What do you all think?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I strongly disagree. Marking is a housetraining transgression and once the habit starts, you must be proactive in training it away. It won't disappear because he is neutered. 

You can use belly bands, but they are a band aid. It does not house train him nor does it train him not to mark. It just protects your house. 

I would get a small vari-kennel style crate. It should be big enough for him to stand up and turn around and lay comfortable. That's it. This is his new home. If you are not actively watching him or not home, he is in his crate. If he'll hold it in there, he can have bedding. If he marks in it, no bedding. When you are home, if he is out he needs to be actively supervised or in his crate. If he doesn't do it in front of you, leashing him to your belt loop works well to prevent wandering off and marking. 

Good work praising him for going outdoors. Continue with this and use an extra special treat (like chicken or hot dog). 

You have to break the habit and prevent him from marking. Praise the proper behavior. You can also have a special place outside where marking is ok (for us, it is at the park). I tell my dogs "go sniff!" and praise them for pottying in their special place.


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## BABYSNOWY (Jul 8, 2008)

I havent had Snowy for very long, so if this sound like the wrong advise I apologize........Snowy was doing great with the wee wee pad until a few weeks ago.....what I started doing was that everytime she would go somewhere she didnt have to I would take her and put her in the same room as the wee wee pad and leave her there for about an hour......this has helped, I think she connects that she did something wrong and now she is punished.....also, maybe im wrong but Snowy doesnt like having her bed and food in the same place as the wee wee pad (I keep her bed and food in my room and the wee wee pad in the office), maybe thats something Mikee doesnt like either. Good Luck. I know is frustrating..Ive had to throw out a few rugs :bysmilie:


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## M&Ms (Jul 8, 2008)

QUOTE (JMM @ Sep 11 2008, 08:18 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=633671


> I strongly disagree. Marking is a housetraining transgression and once the habit starts, you must be proactive in training it away. It won't disappear because he is neutered.
> 
> You can use belly bands, but they are a band aid. It does not house train him nor does it train him not to mark. It just protects your house.
> 
> ...



Thank you for that advice. It's funny you say get a small vari-kennel - I actually "did" that this morning before I left for work. I brought it upstairs and put a nice soft towel in it for him to be comfortable with and when I got home, it was pulled out of the crate. I smelled it, and of course, he either pee'd on it or marked it . so... I guess as you say... the bedding must go too.

I did not lock him in it though.. I separated the two in the kitchen, and left a bed in Maggie's side and the crate in Mikie's - both with their food/water and a few toys each.

Later tonight during a play time - Mikie had done "#2" on the piddle pad (YAY!)... but still was acting as though he needed to go outside. I kept the schedule and let them both out - he FLEW to his spot in the yard and pee'd. So... I praised, praised, praised and gave a treat (which chicken or hot dog sounds great, I will try that!).

I might try a belly band for when we're at work, if he continues doing this - because I never seem to be able to "catch" him marking in the act... it's almost like he's only doing it while we're not here (???). Will he mark in his crate? That would be awful too.

I will do as you suggested with the crate and keep a strict schedule with him. Do you think he will be able to hold it all day in the crate while we're at work? He holds it all night... from 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m., so I guess he probably can. I just hope he doesn't freak by this change... I feel so bad for the little guy, I know he's trying his best...


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## M&Ms (Jul 8, 2008)

QUOTE (BABYSNOWY @ Sep 12 2008, 12:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=633960


> I havent had Snowy for very long, so if this sound like the wrong advise I apologize........Snowy was doing great with the wee wee pad until a few weeks ago.....what I started doing was that everytime she would go somewhere she didnt have to I would take her and put her in the same room as the wee wee pad and leave her there for about an hour......this has helped, I think she connects that she did something wrong and now she is punished.....also, maybe im wrong but Snowy doesnt like having her bed and food in the same place as the wee wee pad (I keep her bed and food in my room and the wee wee pad in the office), maybe thats something Mikee doesnt like either. Good Luck. I know is frustrating..Ive had to throw out a few rugs :bysmilie:[/B]


Thanks - that sounds like very sound advice. I wish I could put his bed/pad in separate rooms, but the rest of my house is new hard wood floors with an off white persian rug in our living room... so I would be hesitant to train in an area other than the kitchen. 

Also... I really would like them to be entirely trained to go outside and not with both methods. I'm just lost at trying to get Mikie to stop marking/peeing on things.. but will try the small kennel again as JMM suggested. I didn't want to have to resort to locking him up, but I believe it's going to have to be done.. I just hope he copes with it.

I may put a belly band on him when I let him out for play time... and take it off him when I take them out to "go". Maybe he will get the idea that when it's on him.. he shouldn't pee/mark (?). I don't know.

My focus will be on putting him in the vari-kennel and strict supervised outings otherwise. 

I'm wondering if I should leave his food and water in the vari-kennel with him during the day? Or maybe just a small measured amount of water, feed him in the morning before we're off to work, then again when I get home. I think I will try that too.

Thanks again - I appreciate any/all advice!!


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I'd feed and walk before you leave in the morning. You can use a water bottle to attach to the door or a clip-on coop cup so he has access to water. I'd try actually crating him for the day. See what happens.


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## Harley & Dakotas Mum (Jun 11, 2005)

What a good puppy-mummy you are! Well done you for seeking advice & taking things on board! In my mind, I don't believe a dog is ever 'un-trainable' - I think it's us humans that need all the training!! LOL Don't get me wrong - my 2 leave a LOT to be desired in the behaviour department - but that's all down to me!

I just wanted to add - I don't think I could ever withhold, or limit water (except under medical advice of course).


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## jaceybaby (Sep 16, 2008)

Well, if you have a friend or somebody to come over to let them out and/or take them for a walk! That would reduce!

However, you need to put him in a crate if your going to get any where, I have to say!

Also, when he goes potty (preferably outside) give him a treat he NEVER gets! Makes it worthwhile!


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