# Need help mastering the topknot



## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Ok so I used to blame it on the fact that Callie's hair wasn't long enough. And there are still some hairs that I have to use a bit of gel to keep up but we're getting really close! When I look at Callie during the day I don't think anything about her topknot looking 'not quite right'. But when I see her in pics, all I see is either a big 'V' on her forehead or that something is just not quite right. I know I need to gather the hair wider over the outer corner of her eyes but then how the heck will she be able to blink?  It always looks so uncomfortable when I try to do that and I end up pulling too many of those outside eye hairs out of the topknot. What am I doing wrong?

Here's a perfect example:










This one really shows the V. Makes me think of Vulcan's from Star Trek. :HistericalSmiley:


----------



## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

You may be taking a bit more than you need. I have to remind myself not to go to far back on the head. I would not try to go to the corners of her eyes more than you have. It looks perfect there. We use a flat iron to curl the fountain back when we show puppies.


----------



## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

CloudClan said:


> You may be taking a bit more than you need. I have to remind myself not to go to far back on the head. I would not try to go to the corners of her eyes more than you have. It looks perfect there. We use a flat iron to curl the fountain back when we show puppies.


But if you don't go back far enough, how do you avoid the Unicorn horn look? Sometimes when I've not gone back as far, the side view is really odd looking. Will that correct itself once the fountain part gets longer?


----------



## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

I think you are taking too much hair. I did that up until a few months ago with Milo.
I now take hair from a tiny bit in front of his ears and it looks so much better.


----------



## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

I have to be honest - I really like Callie's topknot. I know that going further back is not standard for dogs being shown but for those that are not I prefer this look. The fuller topknot looks cuter and helps keep the topknot from falling too far forward.


----------



## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

Hunter's Mom said:


> I have to be honest - I really like Callie's topknot. I know that going further back is not standard for dogs being shown but for those that are not I prefer this look. The fuller topknot looks cuter and helps keep the topknot from falling too far forward.


I agree COMPLETELY!

I think that "Top knots" look good for show dogs - but just take a look at Lola (Silverhaven) that girl has the most stunning, *perfect* look that I have ever seen anywhere.:wub:

I think that Callie, currently, has the look of Lola. To me, there is nothing as beautiful. Callie's cut is perfect, her hair looks devine, nothing too big in it, just a nice, light bow - - it's perfect Crystal!


----------



## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

I tried the top knot thing with Scruffy, and Star. They always looked like they had stubby horns. :w00t: That's why I opted for a pony tail on one side, and a braid on the other. Not the breed "standard" for top knots, but cute just the same. :blush:


----------



## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Hunter's Mom said:


> I have to be honest - I really like Callie's topknot. I know that going further back is not standard for dogs being shown but for those that are not I prefer this look. The fuller topknot looks cuter and helps keep the topknot from falling too far forward.





Sandcastles said:


> I agree COMPLETELY!
> 
> I think that "Top knots" look good for show dogs - but just take a look at Lola (Silverhaven) that girl has the most stunning, *perfect* look that I have ever seen anywhere.:wub:
> 
> I think that Callie, currently, has the look of Lola. To me, there is nothing as beautiful. Callie's cut is perfect, her hair looks devine, nothing too big in it, just a nice, light bow - - it's perfect Crystal!


Well Callie and I thank you ladies for such lovely compliments! And Allie you are right, Maureen's Lola is simply gorgeous. :tender:

Trust me, I'm not wanting to do the double top knots or even the single top knot with papers where it's 'folded' for lack of a better description. I love the fountain look but am just struggling with getting the front and the side view to both look right at the same time. lol


----------



## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

CloudClan said:


> You may be taking a bit more than you need. I have to remind myself not to go to far back on the head. I would not try to go to the corners of her eyes more than you have. It looks perfect there. We use a flat iron to curl the fountain back when we show puppies.


Ok...so after looking at some pics of yours as well as others, is the grooming band of the top knot NOT supposed to be in the center of the head, but somehow supposed to be really high on the forehead, or right above the brow line? The pics that showed me more of what I think you are talking about is in the Showing Section, Lawrence posted a thread titled " *JJ Show Grooming Pics". * How in the world do you do that with a 'fountain top knot so it doesn't stick out like a unicorn horn? Do you start it kind of like a french braid so it lays flat against the head? If that's the case...dang I'm going to have to really practice. Poor Callie.


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I think it's high enough, but.....if you take the hair at the outer ends of the eyes and bring it into the topknot it will look better. The V is really to be an inverted V. The ends of the V at the outer corner of the eyes and then gradually to a point at the top of the head. Hope this helps.


----------



## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Cosy said:


> I think it's high enough, but.....if you take the hair at the outer ends of the eyes and bring it into the topknot it will look better. The V is really to be an inverted V. The ends of the V at the outer corner of the eyes and then gradually to a point at the top of the head. Hope this helps.


So when you look down at the top of Cosy's head, do you see a 'part circle' instead of line, with the grooming band/bow in the middle of the circle? Can you take a pic of the top of Cosy's head? Please?? Pur-dy please?? With sprinkles? :Flowers 2:

And when taking the hair wider at the outer corners of the eye, how do they blink?

eta: And don't down size too much. My tired old eyes need a bigger pic. lol


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

rotfl! They see because you don't make it tight. LOL
The topknot hair should be in the form of an upside down V. The point is where the bow and band go. You can see in Cosy's sig pic. It starts at one point at the top but branches out to the outer corners of the eyes.


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

There's no circle. It's an upside down V. It looks rounded due to the fact Cosy has thick hair and I make sure the topknot isn't pulled to tight so it sort of poofs out to look like that.


----------



## Sandcastles (Jul 7, 2010)

OMGoodness, Cosy has that *perfect* look also - her hair is - picture perfect.


----------



## mom2bijou (Oct 19, 2006)

I'm no help Crystal. I might be the Queen of Presentation but I'm also the queen of mangled top knots. Emm's is always a mess. Lopsided, falling out, crooked. I've decided that is just her messy look now LOL! For what it's worth, I think you did a great job w/Callie's!


----------



## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Sandcastles said:


> I agree COMPLETELY!
> 
> I think that "Top knots" look good for show dogs - but just take a look at Lola (Silverhaven) that girl has the most stunning, *perfect* look that I have ever seen anywhere.:wub:
> 
> I think that Callie, currently, has the look of Lola. To me, there is nothing as beautiful. Callie's cut is perfect, her hair looks devine, nothing too big in it, just a nice, light bow - - it's perfect Crystal!


:blush: I had to smile at this one. Here I am all waiting to learn more about the bane of my existence and I hear Lola's hair is perfect. :biggrin: thank you very much Allie. That is so sweet of you. :tender:

Those pictures of Lola are right after a bath and just before she has had time to wreck it. I have a lot of trouble doing her topknot too. The problem is that her hair is really thin, so a totally different problem, I have to gather more from the back for it to look anything at all, then it is so soft it just flops down over her eyes. So for regular days I use 3 elastics. One for the front, one back and one to hold them together. There is a tutorial on youtube I checked out I will look for it and post it for you. I was just looking at Ullana's and thought Lolas would look better like that using papers as her hair is so thin. So Crystal you are not alone. I love the look of Cosy's don't think Lola has that much hair though.


----------



## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

This is the one I copied off Crystal. 




I find doing it like this keeps it in a lot better than the one elastic, but then for pics I like just the one. I think I will try the V to see how that works.

Your Callie looks adorable. I think if I were doing it I would prob. take a lot less hair from the back as she already has thick hair. But then it may flop over.  I think it is trial and error, depends how you want it to look and they type of hair you have to work with. Especially if you aren't using papers.


----------



## Deborah (Jan 8, 2006)

To me she looks as if she has a Yorkie's fountain.

I am not an expert but once you get the topknot in you need to fold it over and band again.
I think you may be going too far back on her head. If her eyes looks as if she comes from China you have pulled it too tight. An other thing you may try is two ponies which with short hair may be easier. Marj (MY Rock-star) made me some little bows that are really beyond gorgeous. I think doing two may be easier for you to do. (It isn't double trouble)
But one thing it will do is to train the hair to go back.
I hope this helps. Good Luck!:Good luck::Good luck::Good luck:


----------



## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Deborah said:


> If her eyes looks as if she comes from China you have pulled it too tight.


I'm certain that you meant no harm; but for your future reference, that is probably not the most culturally sensitive thing to say.


----------



## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Cosy said:


> There's no circle. It's an upside down V. It looks rounded due to the fact Cosy has thick hair and I make sure the topknot isn't pulled to tight so it sort of poofs out to look like that.


I'm so grateful for threads like this, where I can learn to do something correctly that I've been doing wrong for almost two years!!!


----------



## Deborah (Jan 8, 2006)

princessre said:


> I'm certain that you meant no harm; but for your future reference, that is probably not the most culturally sensitive thing to say.


I absolutely did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I live in a melting pot of people who are accustom to saying things such as I did. Some Oriental people can describe the eyes of a Korean, Chinese ,Philippines, Vet Nam all the eyes look different to them. It is a subtle difference but they can tell. All are proud of where they came from and instantly want you to know their home country. I am just accustomed to how the area where I live is not considered an insult.
I am so sorry if I insulted anyone.:embarrassed::embarrassed::embarrassed::embarrassed: I will certainly take princessre' advise and be more sensitive.

Thank you.


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

princessre said:


> I'm so grateful for threads like this, where I can learn to do something correctly that I've been doing wrong for almost two years!!!


Sophia, yours look just like mine. LOL


----------



## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Deborah said:


> I absolutely did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I live in a melting pot of people who are accustom to saying things such as I did. Some Oriental people can describe the eyes of a Korean, Chinese ,Philippines, Vet Nam all the eyes look different to them. It is a subtle difference but they can tell. All are proud of where they came from and instantly want you to know their home country. I am just accustomed to how the area where I live is not considered an insult.
> I am so sorry if I insulted anyone.:embarrassed::embarrassed::embarrassed::embarrassed: I will certainly take princessre' advise and be more sensitive.
> 
> Thank you.


*Please don't worry. I really don't think you meant anything bad!
*
But as an Asian-American who has lived and traveled all over Asia and other parts, I have never heard of anyone claiming to know the difference between Korean eyes vs. Japanese eyes vs. Chinese eyes, any more than another would claim to know the difference between French vs. German vs. British eyes. 

The best thing to call someone from Asia is "Asian," as opposed to "Oriental." Some Asian-Americans find the term "Oriental" offensive as it defines the world only in relation to Europe, and was coined in times of Euro-centric imperialistic attitudes. Not all Asian-Americans consider it offensive; but most consider it at least antiquated and/or pejorative. The term "Oriental" can be used accurately to describe objects rather than people, e.g. "Oriental rug."

I promise I know you did not mean anything bad at all. I really just want to explain these things because they came up and not everyone knows despite it being a diverse board. 

(((HUGS)))



Cosy said:


> Sophia, yours look just like mine. LOL


Brit- I'm taking too much hair!! I don't do the inverted V!! I do a circle!!!!


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

princessre said:


> Brit- I'm taking too much hair!! I don't do the inverted V!! I do a circle!!!!


Well, whatever works. I was just giving Crystal my version. Some malts have so much hair you have to add more to the topknot.

I also forgot to add I often do the piggy back topknots rather than one or the pigtails. 
This is just *my opinion* but I think malts look cuter in the ponytail rather than the paper wraps. :thumbsup:


----------



## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Cosy said:


> Well, whatever works. I was just giving Crystal my version. Some malts have so much hair you have to add more to the topknot.
> 
> I also forgot to add I often do the piggy back topknots rather than one or the pigtails.
> This is just *my opinion* but I think malts look cuter in the ponytail rather than the paper wraps. :thumbsup:


What are piggy back topknots?


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

princessre said:


> What are piggy back topknots?


You know, where you put one topknot in front of the other and then band them together. It helps keep hair above the eyes banded if it tends to pop out of just one topknot.


----------



## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Cosy said:


> Well, whatever works. I was just giving Crystal my version. Some malts have so much hair you have to add more to the topknot.
> 
> I also forgot to add I often do the piggy back topknots rather than one or the pigtails.
> This is just *my opinion* but I think malts look cuter in the ponytail rather than the paper wraps. :thumbsup:


The way I was doing it, when you would look down to see the very top of Callie's head, it was like a 'bulls eye' with the top knot in the center. :HistericalSmiley: Made for a very unattractive profile and back view. :brownbag:

I was taking WAY too much hair. I now only take from about the front of the ears. Also, I was taking in some of the ear hair. So now I think the band is much more comfortable for her since it's not so full or tight. So now I have to grow out the side pieces from the outer corners of her eyes because I had recently trimmed those. :smilie_tischkante:




princessre said:


> What are piggy back topknots?


The video Maureen shared gives a perfect example. :thumbsup:


----------



## Alexa (Aug 6, 2009)

silverhaven said:


> :blush: I had to smile at this one. Here I am all waiting to learn more about the bane of my existence and I hear Lola's hair is perfect. :biggrin: thank you very much Allie. That is so sweet of you. :tender:
> 
> Those pictures of Lola are right after a bath and just before she has had time to wreck it. I have a lot of trouble doing her topknot too. The problem is that her hair is really thin, so a totally different problem, I have to gather more from the back for it to look anything at all, then it is so soft it just flops down over her eyes. So for regular days I use 3 elastics. One for the front, one back and one to hold them together. There is a tutorial on youtube I checked out I will look for it and post it for you. I was just looking at Ullana's and thought Lolas would look better like that using papers as her hair is so thin. So Crystal you are not alone. I love the look of Cosy's don't think Lola has that much hair though.


Very interesting thread! 
It's always good to compare and to read and learn how other's make the famous topknot, Lol!

Maureen, I started a few weeks ago working with the papers because her hair has grown into such a long pony tail. While playing or smelling outside she always had the ponytail in front of her face.
It needs some practise but slowly I get used to it. I think for daily life it's very neat.
Ullana's hair is very thick on her head. I also tried different styles with less and more hair in the knot.

Crystal, I'm quite sure you'll find your own way for Callie! In my eyes she looks beautiful with her V-topknot! :thumbsup:


----------



## mostlytina (Jan 3, 2009)

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have a very basic question... I always adore those cute little faces with topknots, but never done it before. How often do you have to take it off? and how long does it take once if you master the process? (I find it hard enough to find time to do my own hair in the morning... not to mention theirs...)


----------



## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

mostlytina said:


> I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have a very basic question... I always adore those cute little faces with topknots, but never done it before. How often do you have to take it off? and how long does it take once if you master the process? (I find it hard enough to find time to do my own hair in the morning... not to mention theirs...)


I do Lola's once a day, and leave it in all the time, or she can't see. If I leave it any longer it is likely to mat and then be a real pain to do . Takes all of two mins. well maybe 3


----------

