# Possible vaccine mistake?? Now I'm worried...



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Okay.... now I'm worried and really unsure about what to do.

I picked up Grace's records (Gus's too) for Dr. Julie next Friday.

But I did look through Grace's file because one of my friends emailed me asking about the Bordetella.... wanted to know if they possibly made a mistake and gave her the Intranasal as an Injection instead of the Injectable vaccine....

They sent me this:

_This is the info from an intranasal bordetella vaccine (Merck Intra-Trac®-II ADT): 
"Systemic reactions resulting from inadvertent intramuscular or subcutaneous injection have been reported. Symptoms may include vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, inappetence, jaundice and death associated with liver failure. Localized tissue necrosis at the injection site has also been reported. If inadvertent injection occurs, monitor the dog closely. Supportive therapy including IV fluids and treatment with gentamicin, tetracycline, trimethoprim/sulfa or amoxicillin/clavulanic acid may be indicated. If anaphylactoid reaction occurs, use epinephrine."_

Now I told them I'd keep it in mind but would see how the worming test came back. It was negative.

But I read Grace's records to look at what vaccine they gave. I didn't get the ACTUAL copies of her records. They just printed out the ones they keep on the computer. So I don't have the actual stickers.

But I do know when she opened her real file yesterday there were 2 sets of identical stickers (one from her 2nd puppy shots, and one from her 3rd puppy shots). They were identical. But too far away from me to read. I don't know if the Intranasal Bordetella sticker is identical to the Injectable Bordetella sticker or not......

But in her file it says:

3/8/2012 (3rd puppy shots):

_Treatment: Deworming 0.23cc PO and DA2PP SQ right shoulder and *Bordetella SQ right hind.*_

Then on Saturday 3/10/2012 it says:

Doctor Comments: Discussed possibility of a vaccine reaction since she did have *a new vaccine last visit - Intranasal Bordetella *- Told to watch her closely for the rest of the day.

I'd accept that as a typo, nervously.... However my vet was adamant that Grace had the INTRANASAL Bordetella, not the Injection. She kept arguing with me and pointed to the stickers, but then suddenly changed her tune when she read the notes on the bottom.

Plus I was in the room - I saw them give her the injection!

Now I'm really worried. And I don't knwo what to do.

If I take her to another vet right now they would get the same copies, right? Not the real copy with the actual vaccine stickers?? Just the computer version...probably wouldn't even print them but send them in a file. So ... I don't know what to do here 

How do I approach my vet with this?

Or do I not? And just take her to another vet, let them read the file and hope they will treat her for what I think was an unintentional mistake....but a big one for such a little dog.

If it was a mistake she needs antibiotics not worming/parasite meds...


----------



## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

did you seen them give anything via the intranasal route on 3/8/12? I would call the vet up right away and ask for a clarification. There may be an issue with mis-charting somewhere and it's important to know which vaccine formulation she received and via which route. She should not have received an intranasal vaccine via the intramuscular route! That is VERY important to know given the side effects you looked up. I hope you can talk to the vet's office soon...


----------



## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

:blink::blink: I don't think I'd have a massive amount of trust in that vet. I think that the new vet will get the same notes you have, without stickers but I think you would need to talk to the new vet and tell them what transpired. You're under no obligation to stay with that vet and I'm not really sure if I'd tell them or just get Grace to another vet. Seems like your old vet doesn't really want to admit to a mistake. It's perfectly clear if you're watching if your dog gets a dose up the nose or a shot in the leg. I always have Tyler with me when getting shots so that I see what's done. In fact last time she had me hold Tyler instead of a vet tech.


----------



## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

I would stop worrying about what everyone thinks, and ask what my dog received. They are probably closed if on east coast.


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

hoaloha said:


> did you seen them give anything via the intranasal route on 3/8/12? I would call the vet up right away and ask for a clarification. There may be an issue with mis-charting somewhere and it's important to know which vaccine formulation she received and via which route. She should not have received an intranasal vaccine via the intramuscular route! That is VERY important to know given the side effects you looked up. I hope you can talk to the vet's office soon...


I didn't see them give her ANY nasal vaccines on 3/8. I saw them give her 2 nasal vaccines on 2/15.

She got a little worming medicine and 2 INJECTIONS on 3/8.



Snowbody said:


> :blink::blink: I don't think I'd have a massive amount of trust in that vet. I think that the new vet will get the same notes you have, without stickers but I think you would need to talk to the new vet and tell them what transpired. You're under no obligation to stay with that vet and I'm not really sure if I'd tell them or just get Grace to another vet. Seems like your old vet doesn't really want to admit to a mistake. It's perfectly clear if you're watching if your dog gets a dose up the nose or a shot in the leg. I always have Tyler with me when getting shots so that I see what's done. In fact last time she had me hold Tyler instead of a vet tech.


That's what I'm worried about  I know it was a mistake and I'm very forgiving. But to not say anything by this point is crazy.


I'll talk to my mom about getting her to another vet.

Maybe we will tough it out and drive the hour to Dr. Julie's practice.... But not sure she is there on weekends.

An ER vet might be in order? Just until we can find someone?


----------



## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

some people ask to read the stickers prior to injection.


----------



## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

are they closed now?


----------



## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> :blink::blink: I don't think I'd have a massive amount of trust in that vet. I think that the new vet will get the same notes you have, without stickers but I think you would need to talk to the new vet and tell them what transpired. You're under no obligation to stay with that vet and I'm not really sure if I'd tell them or just get Grace to another vet. Seems like your old vet doesn't really want to admit to a mistake. It's perfectly clear if you're watching if your dog gets a dose up the nose or a shot in the leg. I always have Tyler with me when getting shots so that I see what's done. In fact last time she had me hold Tyler instead of a vet tech.


Sue, why in the world would you think of holding a vet tech??:smrofl::smrofl:
(sorry, couldn't resist)


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

It's okay Sandi .... Gave me a chuckle 


They are open - I'm still waiting for them to call me back to check on Grace. When I call they say, "I'll note that for the tech when she calls you " ....

We are looking at other vets right now.


----------



## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Tori, I would call your vet right away and ask to speak with her directly, not a staff person. Ask her if there is any way that this mistake could have been made. It sounds like if it has, it could be serious. She might not tell you the truth, but she might admit that it is possible. Or there may be a logical explanation.
No matter what she says, or if you can't reach her, I think you should consider having someone else look at Gracie right away. Gracie has been sick for a while, and it if there is any chance that this mistake was made and it is serious, it would be better to get her checked right away. You need to tell them your suspicion that the mistake might have happened. 
I think that it is always better to overreact and have things checked out by an ER vet just to be safe. 
Can you call Dr. Julie and tell her your suspicion and see if she can see you on an emergency basis? If she can't, do you have an emergency vet or hospital nearby?


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

So here's another question:

Dr. Julie (Holistic vet - she is with a full vet practice) her practice is about 45-50 minutes away from us now (so about an hour).

Is that too far for a regular veterinarian?

We have some good emergency vets near us that we could go to if it is an emergency....


----------



## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Sometimes the call back is a tech only, and dr is gone.


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Kathleen said:


> Tori, I would call your vet right away and ask to speak with her directly, not a staff person. Ask her if there is any way that this mistake could have been made. It sounds like if it has, it could be serious. She might not tell you the truth, but she might admit that it is possible. Or there may be a logical explanation.
> No matter what she says, or if you can't reach her, I think you should consider having someone else look at Gracie right away. Gracie has been sick for a while, and it if there is any chance that this mistake was made and it is serious, it would be better to get her checked right away. You need to tell them your suspicion that the mistake might have happened.
> I think that it is always better to overreact and have things checked out by an ER vet just to be safe.
> Can you call Dr. Julie and tell her your suspicion and see if she can see you on an emergency basis? If she can't, do you have an emergency vet or hospital nearby?



We have a good ER vet close.

Right now she looks rather normal. I know this is because of all the drugs they pumped into her yesterday, but if I took her into an ER right now they wouldn't do anything. We have one close by for tomorrow if she drops again.

The earliest we could get in to see Dr. Julie is Wednesday.

I will ask them when they call me. I honestly cannot get through. If they dont' call me tonight, I will know they are covering up something, or know I know....

I'm really sad about this 

Even if it isn't a mistake - there is so much confusion with the vaccine that someone really should have gone back through her records and clarified and I should have been warned that this may have happened once they were so confused about it.


----------



## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Oh Tori, I hope that they would not try to cover it up if it was a mistake. I would hope they would do everything to try to help little Gracie.
At least if you find out it was a mistake, you will know what is making Gracie sick and will be able to treat her.
I am so glad you are going to a new vet. Once you have lost confidence in a vet, you will always be second guessing and suspicious. You don't need that stress. You need to know your dogs are getting the best possible care from someone you trust.


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks Kathleen.

An almost hour drive isn't ideal but worth it for a vet that fits us better.

My mom said she would call the old vet or go in and ask them for copies of the actual records. Grace is our dog they should be our records - not something that requires "authorization"

I'm sorry but dogs don't really have the same confidentiality in regards to medical stuff as people. And what is in their records if it requires "authorization"?

I will talk to Dr. Julie up front and let her know I need to have copies of records before leaving appointments (or to pick up at next appointment), even if it means waiting.

I also need to be informed before any medication or injections are given unless it is a life threatening emergency.

I know I said it before... btu I am sad right now  That vet saved Gussy's life! But yesterday was REALLY off, so I just have a bad feeling.

Grace is sleeping, kind of feeling yuck. She isn't vomiting right now.

have everything ready to go to run her out the door the second she does. It's terrible to say... but sadly due to everything they injected into her it's this "fake" getting better.... I have to wait for it to wear off so she can actually get the treatment I need her to get.


----------



## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

I am really sorry that this is happening. I will share with you all something quite personal that I have seldom spoken about to anyone. It's lengthy, but I think it relates to the idea that records do in fact get changed to reflect inaccurate information and to C.Y.A. Several years ago I was pregnant and we were SO happy about it. A couple of months into the pregnancy, I began cramping and went the E.R., and the Dr. (on call from my practice) said I had a tubal pregnancy and they had to end the pregnancy to avoid tubal rupture. We were crushed. They administered a drug to end the pregnancy. A few days later I had labs drawn and my hormones were still rising. I then had to go see my Dr. after hours where another ultrasound was done. We were stunned to see that the baby had been in my uterus the entire time, but there was no heartbeat. My Dr. scheduled me for an DNC immediately and the pregnancy again "ended". I was working for an Endocrinologist at the time and shared with her what had happend. She was stunned. I got a copy of my medical records and would you believe that they had been COMPLETELY falsified? They said I went to the E.R. and asked to terminate my pregnancy! Unbelievable. 

So, the moral of this story (and the reason that I shared this with yall) is so that no one will ever understimate what another person/ Dr. will do if their back is against the wall and they've made a mistake they don't want to own up to. You may never get the truth out of this Vet. Sometimes the best you can hope for is to find another Dr. that you can trust and just have your baby seen by them. I suspect that they did make a mistake, and that's why they've given you the runaround  . You are a wonderful Mommy and I know you will get the absolute best care for your baby. I will lift up a healing prayer for you all. ♥


----------



## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Bridget - I was stunned reading about what happened to you. You mean that the pregnancy was vital and just misdiagnosed? How tragic. I'm so very sorry and I guess it goes to show the absence of a moral compass in people when it comes to the almighty dollar and being afraid you're going to be sued. :smcry: I don't know how you get over something like what happened to you. Big hugs to you. :smootch:

Tori - where are you located? What city or area? Just thinking that maybe surprisingly there might be someone on SM who is in your area and has found a great vet. Also are you near any good veterinary teaching programs at a university? Maybe you can find someone that way. My heart goes out to you and Grace. :wub::wub:


----------



## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

Susan, thank you for kind words. I don't want to sidetrack this very important thread, but to abreviate the story, several pregnancies later we learned that I cannot carry children to term. The Dr. did not know that at the time of the pregnancy that I shared with you all above though. She took the babies life (too soon). She made a mistake, then she lied about it. We got through the challenges by surrounding ourselves in our Faith, family and friends. Also knowing we have beautiful Angels looking over us each day. ♥

It is sad to think that people would do this to people and to our fluffs (who frankly I treat like a human).


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Bridget - I'm so sorry that happened  Thank you for sharing, that was really brave :grouphug: 

Susan - I'm in Phoenix, Arizona.

I'm worried someone will recommend my current vet  They get really good ratings from their patients.

I'd be happy to know if anyone who does live out here or who was living here recently has a vet they like.

I am looking for more Holistic care for my pups. But am open to having a vet closer to home to work with Dr. Julie.

Grace ate about 2 tsp of dinner. This was after having NO FOOD or treats or chews, etc all day. She ate about 1 tsp around 9 am.

I think the meds are wearing down.


----------



## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Grace'sMom said:


> Bridget - I'm so sorry that happened  Thank you for sharing, that was really brave :grouphug:
> 
> Susan - I'm in Phoenix, Arizona.
> 
> ...


PM Dianne - Rocky's Mom right now. I think she's in your area and I think she's on SM right now. Don't know if she'll read this. She's going away next week so try her now.


----------



## RudyRoo (Jun 24, 2011)

Tori, I am so sorry to hear about little Grace. I am appalled that mistakes could have been made, but they made you feel like you were the one that was mistaken! In regards to your question about a regular vet being an hour away..I don't think is a big deal at all, especially since you have good ER's near. That is the exact position I am in. Rudy's vet is the vet for his rescue, and he has been going there since he was just a sick puppy before I was even in his life. I love their staff. I love both vets. I feel comfortable and safe with them. They are about 45 minutes away though, and I am about to move even further away. I (very briefly) thought about finding a vet closer to me when I move, but then realized that the comfort I get from going to a vet that I trust is priceless and worth every dollar spent in gas and every missed hour of work. I might feel differently if I didn't also have close ER's nearby. I think after this event you will find it hard to put your trust in them again, even though this vet has saved your Gus's life. 

I hope Grace recovers quickly. I'll be thinking of her! 


Bridget...:smcry:I'm so so so so sorry to hear that. :grouphug:


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Snowbody said:


> PM Dianne - Rocky's Mom right now. I think she's in your area and I think she's on SM right now. Don't know if she'll read this. She's going away next week so try her now.


Lynn, Lacie, Tillie's and Secret's mom, used to live in Phoenix so she would also be very helpful.

Just want to give you a virtual hug. :grouphug:

I know how worried you are.


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Thank you both. I messaged Rocky's mom and Lynn sent me a PM. So hopefully will find someone good


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

I've read through both Grace and Gus's files that they gave me.

I'm glad we are going to see someone else. There are things in here that are not right. Just things they say they mentioned, or tests they suggested, or stating they were in better health then they told me while at our visit....

For yesterday they say that Grace was Quiet but Alert and Responsive, and would "bound" around when persuaded. I want to know when she was bounding? And where was this "alert and responsive" puppy? She was happy for a few minutes but then got quiet and disinterested.

Gah.

Making me mad.

In Gus's records it states over and over that Owner "suspects" or "states" that he has allergies.... The vet was the one who told me he had allergies!

Anyway.

Lynn gave me the name of a vet she trusts out here so I will call them in the morning. See about getting Miss Grace in even if she is "bounding"....


----------



## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Grace'sMom said:


> I've read through both Grace and Gus's files that they gave me.
> 
> I'm glad we are going to see someone else. There are things in here that are not right. Just things they say they mentioned, or tests they suggested, or stating they were in better health then they told me while at our visit....
> 
> ...


Gee, makes all of us want to look at our pup's medical records and our own.
:blink::blink: And they send these to the insurance companies too. Glad that suggestions might work. It helps to know where people are so we can chime in if we're from a certain area or know someone there. Paws and fingers crossed.


----------



## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Tori, that is wonderful that Lynn gave you a good referral to a great vet. If it were me, I would stop frustrating myself with the other vet, as it seems you will never get a straight answer out of them. 

When you go to the new vet, let the vet know that you have serious concerns, as to what Gracie was actually given, and not all appears to be on the print out sheet they gave you.

You can ask the new vet, to call the other vet's office, and they could let them know, in order for me to treat Gracie properly, I will need all treatment that Gracie was given at your office, as their is a concern that not everything is on ther print out that was given to the client. See what happens then.


----------



## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

I was able to give Tori the name of the Vet I trust most in the whole world and that I went to for more than 20 years. He is quite far from her, so I suggested that she call him and ask for a referral nearer to her. He is extremely honest. I've held my fluffs for xrays (with the xray vest on me). I've held my fluffs when removing fatty tumors using only a local. I've watched the spays being performed and even the C-section when the new puppies were given directly to me for cleaning, etc. Yes, this Vet and I have a very special relationship because I was a breeder and showing, but still, he is very honest and trustworthy.

My Vet here provides me with a print out of all procedures that were done at the time of the visit including information on any side effect of drugs, etc. Complete care instructions for care after the visit if there was any type of surgical procedure. On the wellness examines, they even give a drawing of the fluff's skeleton indication exactly where injections have been given, where blood has been drawn and any tumors, bumps, growths have been found. On the dentals, they give a drawing of the jaw and teeth indicating where they have to pull a tooth or where they have done other types of dental work. I always leave feeling that I have not only talked and discussed everything with the Vet, but also have a thorough written records. 99% of the time, I find that, if I have a questions after we're home, I can find the answer in the written info that they've given me. I have a 3 ring binder that has all of my fluffs complete recrods in them. I also have vital info recorded on my iPad from the app that Sue suggested. Also, my Vet's office always calls me the day after surgery, dentals or vaccinations just to check on how my fluff is doing and to see if I have any questions/concerns.

In today's world of technology, there is no reason that all records cannot be kept online and provided to the owner on each visit.

Last year when Lacie was having her dental, there was a value on her bloodwork that was a little off. To make a long story short, I reminded them that I did a complete blood panel on an annual basis and asked them to pull up the one from prior years and the numbers were the same -- so it is normal for Lacie to have a lower value in this area.

Maybe I'm a little OCD about my fluff's health and their records, but I have my calendar marked each year when their wellness visits are due. I know that I receive a postcard reminder from the Vets, but I mark my calendar at the beginning of each year.

BTW -- one vet I know of provides a disc inside of paper copies that shows everything from the wellness exam.

Sending lots of prayers for little Grace and hope that my Vet in Phoenix is of help to Tori.


----------



## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Right now I am going to "Grand*Paws Animal Clinic" 9420 West Bell Road Suite # 102 in Sun City, Az 85351 Phone 623.322.3919
There is a clinic closer to me who is nice too but they are more expensive when it comes to dental or any other surgery.
For now I cannot complain. They are nice. Do what I am asking for. Charlie had his rabies vaccination a couple of days ago and I talked to vet about the dosage and he completely agreed with me. 
I don't know how far they are from your place.


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Thank you Lynn, Dianne, and Janine,

Lynn is no longer in AZ, but how neat to know there are some here 

Right now I'm going to take her to Gold Canyon to see Dr. Julie next Wednesday - she's a Holistic vet and will help with titer testing, toxins, etc.

I'm going to call the vet Lynn suggested to either see about seeing him (he is only 25 minutes from me, Lynn, if he is still at that location!!  So we may go to see him, or ask him for someone nearby that he recommends.

I think Sun City is a little far for a vet, but will remember them. I have family in that area so will also remember that for if they need a recommendation!

So far Gracie is holding her own. But not surprised there. It took a few days for the last fluids and meds to wear off and see the symptoms come back. So still cautiously optimistic.

She is still not eating. The thing she will eat the most of is boiled meat. So I'm boiling meat LOL... But it is still a small, small amount not near her normal (and she is a tiny thing! My dad ends up eating the boiled meat for fear it will go bad before she finishes it LOL). She has dropped the ounces they claimed she gained. But her belly doesn't feel as hard today so hoping that means the inflammation is down.

I stopped the stomach coating medicine. It was making her nauseous, she would mini-vomit after a dose. So no on that. It's why I like being sent home with the meds so I can start one new med at a time in case there is a reaction. She has had 5 new meds in this last week!

But she is somewhat playful. Still has really dark eye rims - not her normal coloring, which is why I'm cautious - if she was truly gettiing better her face would show she was feeling better. But at this point she looks so good I don't know if any vet would do anything for her. The fluid and meds "bandaid".

Looking back, more clearly, on the whole thing - I see now little things I missed with the whole treatment of Grace once she got sick - and they seem to point to the vet(s) knowing or assuming it was a mistake and just not saying anything.

Especially missed that the vet says Grace is healthy and "no findings" other then the intestines being "thick" (is how she noted it).... And yet, they still gave a "healthy" puppy fluids, Pepcid, and that stomach coater...... what? All to appease her crazy mama? Sigh.

I did more reading on mistaken injection of intranasal Bordetella - and they basically have done for her what would have been done, anyway. The difference is they really tried to make me seem crazy. And that Grace may need antibiotics to clear the infection since they injected her with a LIVE vaccine.

I also noticed that every time I gave them forms to fill out for insurance (I have copies of those) Their notes are really carefully worded and always state that Gus (claimed the most with him) or Grace (claimed Thursday) was Bright and Alert, and had NO pain, No findings of illness. Which makes sense with why I've never hit a deductible for a year for Gus even if everything I was submitting was under allergies (which vet claims in notes *I* always "assumed" or "suspected", she never diagnosed him with *anything* including the Colitis that *she* brought up last Thanksgiving!)

Bah.

So I will be changing how I do things with vets. I'm hoping to still develop a good relationship with a new one.... but I will ask to see the vaccine bottle before they draw it, watch them draw it, and ask to sign next to the stickers in their chart (unless they will give the sticker to me and sign it), and then ask for a copy of the record sheet (the original) for that day. Even if it means waiting.

I will also be much more wary about allowing them to go into the back room with the vet where I can't see what is going on. I don't want to sit in on surgeries (LOL sounds neat, Lynn, but I just couldn't with my babies!), but I would like to be present for any non-surgical non-life threatening procedures.

Sounds overkill.... but this vet totally blew my trust 

Thanks all for the wonderful, wonderful, wonderful support.


----------



## gidget'smom (Mar 11, 2012)

I am late to this conversation but think I have a "handle" on it. I do think there are two ways to go from here depending on how you want to handle it. First of all let me say how sorry I am that you are goin through this--I can only imagine how scary it is. Now back to the two ways. If you wanted to you could go to the original vet and ask for them to make photo copies of their files--not the papers they gave you. It seemed to me what they gave you said something different than what you saw in the file. I would ask for them to make me a copy of THEIR file. The most they would do is tell you no and you are not going to use them anymore anyway, but if they give it to you then your will have it for your new vet. If you are not up for that the other thing is to just forget that vet--which I would definitely do--go to the new vet and explain as you have to us what you fear has happened. I feel sure the new vet should know what to do for Gracie if in fact she was injected with intranasal vaccine. Lastly, you are completely correct. Your new philosphy for vet visits is the way to go. There is no reason not to be with your pet for everything that is done and to do the things that you lined out. She is your pet and responsibility and it sounds like you are taking excellent care of her. You do what makes you feel comfortable.


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Thank you Tina.

I was going to put a small bit of food color on Gracie's right foot (the leg she got the shot in) so my mom and I can keep an eye on it. She sort of babies it and shakes it (like shaking off a wet paw) now and then. So want to keep watch...

Is it safe to put a tiny (pea size) dot on the tip of her fur? My mom keeps forgetting which leg we are keeping an eye on.

The new vet might have to shave her leg to get a good look. I tried to look for any sign of discoloration or a sore during her bath last night but so hard with her fluff - even when wet. No sore that I can tell.... but yeah.

Thanks all.


----------



## Critterkrazy (Jan 17, 2007)

Tori it sounds like you already received wonderful info on new vets but I thought I'd throw my vet out there for you also. She is located near Broadway and the 101 at the Mesa/Tempe border. Her name is Dr Westhauf, phone number is 480-968-9236. 

I hope little Grace starts to feel better soon.


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks Kim  That isn't too far from us! Might be a good close vet.


----------



## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Did you end up asking the vet directly straight out if Grace was accidentally given the intranasal formulation as an injection? I still think it's important to know what happened exactly as to prevent any future reactions (whether it was the intranasal given incorrectly vs a reaction from the injectable form). You have the legal right to obtain actual copies of the medical file as well. Glad to hear she is feeling better


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Marisa -

I didn't ask her right out, no.

Vet insisted it was the intranasal (given via nose), not an injection. Then read her notes and corrected herself.

But after the vaccine "debate" the vet said over and over "This is NOT a vaccine reaction." "It's too late for a vaccine reaction." 

I feel that she was done with me. Maybe I ask too many questions, I don't know. This was never an issue at the old practice where we started seeing her. But just little changes since she moved over. I don't know.

I'm going to let the new vet handle it, and after we are settled, I will go in and ask to have her records (the real ones).

I'm not interested in legal action. Just the truth. But I don't *trust* them anymore.


----------



## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I do believe in some states vets are required to keep the original postings because of problems w/drugs disappearing or something like that. I had a situation once in TX. where a vet gave me my records, because I live overseas & when I came back to that clinic later my dr. was no longer there. They would not tell me where she went or why, but kept demanding I give them back the records the vet had given to me. I explained that I did not have them anymore because the dog had died in the mean time. They were not nice at all about it. So I have no idea what was going on.


----------



## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Grace'sMom said:


> Marisa -
> 
> I didn't ask her right out, no.
> 
> ...


I agree! It's a matter of the get being truthful and compassionate even if a mistake occurred. I really hope things go well with the new vet


----------



## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Grace'sMom said:


> Marisa -
> 
> I didn't ask her right out, no.
> 
> ...


Hi, 
So happy little Grace is doing ok. I wonder how long reactions last? I hope you find out what the sticker says, in case it's vaccines that are an issue, as titer is not always acceptable, (travel, boarding). I know you can't really know which one though. It's tough situation w/out the sticker. 
Good luck with new Vet quest, and SO glad Grace is doing ok today. Grace is the cutest little thing in that pic with Gus in her little blue sweater. :wub:


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> I do believe in some states vets are required to keep the original postings because of problems w/drugs disappearing or something like that. I had a situation once in TX. where a vet gave me my records, because I live overseas & when I came back to that clinic later my dr. was no longer there. They would not tell me where she went or why, but kept demanding I give them back the records the vet had given to me. I explained that I did not have them anymore because the dog had died in the mean time. They were not nice at all about it. So I have no idea what was going on.


That could be the case. I know laws in this state are different and sometimes make no sense. I have no idea, either.



hoaloha said:


> I agree! It's a matter of the get being truthful and compassionate even if a mistake occurred. I really hope things go well with the new vet


Yes. Even if they aren't sure, I'd rather they tell me it may have happened so we should take xyz precautions..... 



SammieMom said:


> Hi,
> So happy little Grace is doing ok. I wonder how long reactions last? I hope you find out what the sticker says, in case it's vaccines that are an issue, as titer is not always acceptable, (travel, boarding). I know you can't really know which one though. It's tough situation w/out the sticker.
> Good luck with new Vet quest, and SO glad Grace is doing ok today. Grace is the cutest little thing in that pic with Gus in her little blue sweater. :wub:


Thanks 

Grace is still holding okay. Her eyes slowly looking less "not feeling good" puppy eyes.

I think the reaction to a mistaken injection (from what I've read) is the same as any virus would be. So 7-14 days. In dogs with healthy immune systems the outcomes tend to be better. Guess it's a good thing I had her on probiotics!

The issue is long term damage. I will have the new vet run panels on her to check her liver and kidney function. We will have to rerun the test every 3 months for awhile just to be safe. Some dogs seem to be doing okay but then 3 or 6 months later have liver and kidney problems. So we will just keep on top of it. Since she is a Holistic Vet I'm sure she can give Grace something natural to help support her liver and kidneys.

This "mistake" is not as uncommon as it seems. I've read a lot of stories about it happening. So just be aware of which vaccine your pup is getting.



Thanks again everyone for the help :wub:


----------



## SweetMalteseAngels (Oct 16, 2011)

Oh no~~!!!! I am sorry about what happened to Gracie. I hope Grace feels better soon!


----------



## SweetMalteseAngels (Oct 16, 2011)

I am sooooo sorry about what happened to you and your precious baby. Thank you for sharing your heart with us. My heart aches and cries for you and that unborn child. *****BIG HUGS TO YOU****



Summergirl73 said:


> I am really sorry that this is happening. I will share with you all something quite personal that I have seldom spoken about to anyone. It's lengthy, but I think it relates to the idea that records do in fact get changed to reflect inaccurate information and to C.Y.A. Several years ago I was pregnant and we were SO happy about it. A couple of months into the pregnancy, I began cramping and went the E.R., and the Dr. (on call from my practice) said I had a tubal pregnancy and they had to end the pregnancy to avoid tubal rupture. We were crushed. They administered a drug to end the pregnancy. A few days later I had labs drawn and my hormones were still rising. I then had to go see my Dr. after hours where another ultrasound was done. We were stunned to see that the baby had been in my uterus the entire time, but there was no heartbeat. My Dr. scheduled me for an DNC immediately and the pregnancy again "ended". I was working for an Endocrinologist at the time and shared with her what had happend. She was stunned. I got a copy of my medical records and would you believe that they had been COMPLETELY falsified? They said I went to the E.R. and asked to terminate my pregnancy! Unbelievable.
> 
> So, the moral of this story (and the reason that I shared this with yall) is so that no one will ever understimate what another person/ Dr. will do if their back is against the wall and they've made a mistake they don't want to own up to. You may never get the truth out of this Vet. Sometimes the best you can hope for is to find another Dr. that you can trust and just have your baby seen by them. I suspect that they did make a mistake, and that's why they've given you the runaround  . You are a wonderful Mommy and I know you will get the absolute best care for your baby. I will lift up a healing prayer for you all. ♥


----------



## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Tori - just wanted to get on and wish you and Grace really well this coming week. I will be thinking of her. Am going out of the country so not sure if I'll have good internet or not so just wanted you to know I care. :wub:


----------



## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

SweetMalteseAngels said:


> I am sooooo sorry about what happened to you and your precious baby. Thank you for sharing your heart with us. My heart aches and cries for you and that unborn child. *****BIG HUGS TO YOU****


Thank you. I hoped that by sharing our story that it would help us to realize that Dr.'s / Vets make mistakes, but it is truly our job to protect the ones who cannot protect themselves. Whether they be our children or our fluffs....they are both truly our babies ♥.


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Grace vomited again tonight and doing her "I don't feel good" things again - wanting to be held, wanting to sleep on me. Still not as bad as the first two times - but not a true "better" yet.

I am going to call Dr. Julie's practice tomorrow and see if they can get us in, if not with Dr. Julie then with one of the other vets in her office.

If not, then I'm calling the vets recommended and will get her in to see someone. I think she needs antibiotics, and maybe another boost of fluids to get her over the hump.


----------



## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

Oh I was so sorry to read this! Poor little Grace.  . I hope you'll be able to get her in to see Dr. Julie today. Keep us posted and please give Grace loving hugs from Aunt Bridget and Lady Bella. ♥. Lifting up a prayer for you both.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Did you ever get the results of Grace's bloodwork? I think I missed it if you posted it.

I agree with what JMM said many pages ago. After all this time, This has to be more than a vaccine reaction. Grace must have something else going on. I hope you can get her in to see Dr. Julie early.


----------



## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Just checking in to see how Gracie is doing this morning.


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

There was no blood work done on her  The other vet refused, said we'd do it "next time" if she wasn't better.I had wanted everything that could be done, done so I'd know.

Grace is sleeping. When we got up this morning to potty she did a little vomit. So calling the new vet right now, will see about getting her in sooner.


----------



## babycake7 (Jan 30, 2012)

Sending prayers your way for Grace. You are in our thoughts. XO Hope and Bella


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Dr. Julie had a cancellation! We can see her today!


----------



## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Hoping that you get some answers today and things get better for Gracie!


----------



## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Grace'sMom said:


> Dr. Julie had a cancellation! We can see her today!


Yay! That is great news!
I hope that all goes well and that you like Dr. Julie.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Checking for an update.


----------



## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

I have been readin all the posts looking forward to seeing what you find out


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Our appointment went really well. Dr. Julie is definitely a great fit for us :thumbsup:

She spent an hour with us, the first half of it doing an extensive history on her, wanting to know about our home, routines, nutrition, and understanding the last 11 days. She listened and wrote everything down.

She checked Gracie out. Made sure to look at her leg that the injection was given, which is looking good - no sign of any abscess on or under the skin. When I told her Grace's eyes looked "sick" and darker around the lids she said I'm not crazy! That when inflammation is occurring (from toxins, allergies, or sickness) their heads get hot and that causes the skin around their eyes to darken! Gracie's intestines are still swollen. And she said she is TOO SKINNY. But if she isn't eating right now that is why. She likes her pups lean but not too skinny.

She said at this point she feels Grace is over the hump and at the end of the virus. That it could be taking longer because of the number of vaccines she received, and then the multiple injections of meds. That all of those leave toxins and many dogs, especially little ones, their liver & kidneys can't detox well enough.

She said the toxins cause inflammation and that the longer the inflammation is in the body, the more time it has to land somewhere (GI tract - causing IBS, allergies, Colitis; the skin - causing rashes and allergies; liver or kidneys - causing damage with those organs, etc.).

She talked about some foods I can feed Grace to help "cool down" inflammation (inflammation is "hot"):

Rabbit (the best one), Beef, Bison, Duck, Turkey, Salmon are all good meats to lower inflammation. Eggs are good, too.

Lamb is apparently one of the "hottest" meats that will encourage inflammation.

Pumpkin, sweet potatoes are good. But she is having me feed cucumbers, bananas, and water chestnuts (the ones in the can are fine) since they are the most "cooling". I'll get a better list when I take Gus in Wednesday.

She said steel cut oats are one of her favorite things to feed dogs who have inflammation - instead of rice.

Again - will get more foods when I take Gus in. Since Grace saw her today I had them give Gus Grace's Weds appointment.

She also gave me 2 homeopathic treatments/supplements to start them on. One is to detox all the toxins from the vaccines and meds. The other is a strong but gentle anti-inflammatory.

She doesn't want to do anything else with Grace (vaccines, etc) until her inflammation is calmed down (her intestines are still swollen).

We ran labs, and she will call me with those when they get in. She sill also gladly give me copies of anything I want!

The biggest thing I learned was about the vaccines.

She said she doesn't like to vaccinate her little dogs except for special circumstances. If a dog is going to be boarded, in day care, or around a lot of strange dogs, she does prefer to do the nasal bordetella. But only the nasal. She also only does the Rabies.

For the other vaccines she prefers something called Nosodes instead. They are tablets that you give your dog - I will let this site explain it LOL

Nosodes: alternative to vaccines

But she says they have no side effects, and produce a stronger immune system against Distemper, Parvo, etc then vaccines.

I wish I had been going to her when I got Grace because Grace would have never been vaccinated with injections, only with Nosodes.

The only injection vaccine she gives is Rabies - because it is mandated by law. But she only gives it every 3 years, not the 1 year.

Grace is still not feeling great, but eating okay. Loved her Rabbit, turkey banana mush tonight. We see her Wednesday for Gus so she will look at her quick then to be sure she's still on the mend.

I really have a good feeling about Dr. Julie. AND... Gus who usually shakes like a leaf at the vets didn't shake AT ALL with Dr. Julie. He walked around the whole time wagging his tail.


----------



## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

What a great update and what a wonderful vet. I'm happy to hear that Grace is on the mend and it sounds like you and Dr. Julie clicked really well and for Gus not to shake at the vets speaks volumes. I just now read the thread, sorry that i haven't commented sooner.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

What a great update! Sounds like Dr. Julie is a winner!


----------



## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

I am so glad that Grace is eating. That is a big first step to getting better 

It sounds like Dr. Julie is really thorough and that there is good communication. It is great that she really listened. You must be so relieved to have a vet you can trust. You and your vet should be on the same side - a team.

I hope Grace continues to eat well and feels better really soon!


----------



## emmy123 (Jan 22, 2012)

I have been following this thread closely and I so glad to hear that little Gracie is on the mend and that you really liked Dr. Julie. You and little Gracie have been through so much and I am so sorry for all of it. I have a feeling that your story will help others and their pups avoid this same nightmare. I KNOW that I will be questioning my vet much more than I have in the past- especially about vaccines. So a big THANK YOU to you and Gracie. Your suffering may not have been in vain.


----------



## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

Wow....Dr. Julie sounds wonderful! I'm so glad you were able to get in to see her. Looking forward to hearing how beautifully your little gets well...and very soon  . ♥


----------



## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Checking in to see how little Gracie is feeling today.
My fingers are crossed that she is doing better.


----------



## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Interesting article for sure. I plan to pass it on to my daughter who teaches at U. of Cambridge in the History of Medicine Dept. to ask her to evaluate it for me. She is a scientist so it will be interesting to see what she thinks. She is also expecting her first baby & the question of vaccines is a biggie. Since no antibodies are produced it sounds a bit "iffy" and there are no long term studies. I know the vaccines have issues too! It is not an easy call.


----------



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Right Sandi.

And it isn't an easy call. Woudl be interested to knwo what your daughter thinks 



The Nosodes tablets are used as a preventative in the event of exposure or outbreak. So they aren't given all the time or routinely. But if you take your dog to a dog show and hear there is a distemper outbreak you can give them the tablets.

My dogs are not high risk. We see other dogs, but only ones we know are healthy. We don't go to dog parks or indoor dog events. So I am considering them. I do know Grace is not going to be able to handle yearly vaccines.

And daycare is out since they require the injection of Bordetella every 6 months.

Oh well.

She is still doing okay 

Loved her rabbit, banana, cucumber mush this morning.


----------



## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Glad to hear things went so well with the new Vet! Hope things continue to work out with her as Grace and Gus' new vet. you're doing a great job taking care of Grace and I hope she fully recovers soon...



edelweiss said:


> Interesting article for sure. I plan to pass it on to my daughter who teaches at U. of Cambridge in the History of Medicine Dept. to ask her to evaluate it for me. She is a scientist so it will be interesting to see what she thinks. She is also expecting her first baby & the question of vaccines is a biggie. *Since no antibodies are produced it sounds a bit "iffy" and there are no long term studies.* I know the vaccines have issues too! It is not an easy call.


I'd have to agree with this part. I absolutely support vaccines in children (human)- there is SO much mis-information about it (especially the whole autism/MMR vaccine fiasco-- there is NO link and the original published article in Lancet that brought this up was found to be completely FALSE and has been retracted!!!!) I'd have your daughter choose a trusted pediatrician she can always feel comfortable asking questions to.  Please please vaccinate your children. Sorry for the hijack of topic but this is something that I feel very strongly about. I can't honestly speak about veterinary medicine as that is not my training, so I am referring to skin-kids :-D


----------



## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

So glad that Grace's appt went so well. 

I believe that we, as a society, severely over-vaccinate our fluffs. Because of their lifestyle, I have decided that the risk of exposure to a disease is much less than the risk from the vaccination. All 3 of mine had their vaccinations as puppies and after and have since been titer tested.

It is a personal decision, but we are no longer doing vaccinations at my house. With Tilly at almost 6, Lacie at 7 1/2 and Secret at 10 1/2, I think this is the best decision for us.


----------

