# Gracie - ear and update



## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Grace has been throwing up all day 

Yesterday her eyes were squinty.

Worried that the steroids have put too much stress on her liver (light sensitivity is a sign of liver distress).

See Dr. Julie and Dr. L tomorrow. So hopefully will get it sorted....

Will update when we get back tomorrow.

Prayers appreciated.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

I am so sorry that Grace is still not feeling better. Of course, she is in my prayers. You, too, Tori.

I am glad you are getting her checked out by the vet ... and, hopefully, Grace will be feeling better real soon. I will be checking in for an update.

Many hugs and prayers for your darling little girl.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Sending up a prayer for little Gracie---will it ever end? Yes, I know it will, but it does seem that poor baby has had enough! Kisses to her squinty eyes.


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Poor Gracie, I know she must be uncomfortable. Thoughts for you-all.


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

Awwww poor little Gracie. I hope she is feeling better today.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Oh Tori,... I'm so sorry to hear Gracie is having problems. Will certainly be praying this is something with an 'easy-fix" ! Will check back later after your appt.


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## Zoe's Mom88 (Apr 25, 2011)

So sorry Grace is going through this. Praying she feels better and that her liver hasn't been put through more with this. Happy your seeing the vet today.


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

Praying that Gracie gets better soon!


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## luvmybabe (Dec 30, 2012)

Thoughts and prayers sent Grace's and your way


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Sending good thoughts and prayers for Gracie.


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## Leila'sMommy (Oct 20, 2012)

Tori, I am so sorry she's not better by now. I will keep both of you in my prayers. I hope the prednisone hasn't affected her liver. 


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## mdbflorida (Feb 28, 2013)

I am so sorry little gracie is not feeling better. Will be thinking of you guys.


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## sherry (Jan 4, 2013)

Bless her heart! Hoping she feels better soon.


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## MoonDog (Jun 6, 2011)

Poor sweet little Gracie. I'm so sorry she's having a hard time. Prayers are on the way.


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## StevieB (Feb 2, 2012)

This makes me really sad. I hope they can find a course of treatment that will clear this up. Poor little Grace, so unfair for a sweet puppy to feel so cruddy all the time :-(


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Any up--dates Tori? Hope you are able to rest when Gracie does! Be well my friend!


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## Gongjoo (Dec 9, 2012)

oh no! I'm sorry to hear about this  I was really hoping she was on the mend! Please let us know how everything goes! We will be thinking about you...


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Tori -- I'm so sorry to hear that Grace isn't doing well. Sending lots of prayers your way. Sure hope that the doctors can find a good couse of treatment for her.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Sorry guys... Our appointment was early and then I had to drop the pups off so I could run errands!

Grace's ear is healing :happy: ... she saw some white membrane regrowing. So that is great! She also said the inflammation is down 

She thinks the vomiting is 2 things:

1. The anesthesia + all the meds she has been on - causing liver to flare up 

2. The antibiotic - Grace is a sensitive girl...

So she gave her an injection of Nux Vomica which is a natural homeopathic alternative to Cerena (keep that in mind) without the possible side effects.

She had me pick up some Nux Vomica pellets (made by Boiron) that I can tuck under her lip and it dissolves and absorbs thru her gums... She says she can have 1 pellet every 15 minutes if in a really bad nausea spell. Then go to 1 every 30 minutes, 1 every hour... But hopefully the shot will get her to where it's just 3 pellets twice a day.

Stuff works great! Gracie feels much better. She calmed down 10 minutes after her injection and is now sleeping (she was up all night sick  ).

She took Grace off the antibiotic (whew!) ...and I'm going to be giving her an herbal antibiotic. Gracie does 200% better on natural treatments than allopathic ones. She knows this, I know this. So I know it will be great. She's been on it 14 days, so no problem stopping it right now.

Also gave me some Traumeel infant drops that I can put in her ear if she has any itching or pain but she doubts it will be painful anymore since it looks so great!

Next week I will restart all her liver herbs. She is off everything right now except for the Nux Vomica, the natural antibiotic, a probiotic, and Collodial Silver (4 drops a day).

I know we'll get her feeling better in no time 

In other news.... Gus is gaining weight from eating 4 meals a day...since he tells my mother I didn't feed him (when I go out)...and so he's become a little piggy...so is now on the green bean diet 

So happy Dr. Julie is back from vacation!!!!


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## Zoe's Mom88 (Apr 25, 2011)

Tori, that is great news! Your the best Mom for being right on top of everything.....Gus and Grace are lucky to have you. I love reading about your natural meds. I will certainly try and remember the Nux Vomica for the future. :thumbsup:

Oh no, the dreaded Green Bean diet. I am sure Gus isn't going to be happy about that.

So happy she is healing and beginning to feel better. :chili:


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks Barbie 

Yesterday my mother told me she fed Gus dinner and I told her I had fed him just a half hour ago! She said she's been feeding him every day for about a week now because I've been so busy with Grace LOL

Little stinker!


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Wow, that is a lot of meds for a little doggie. I know this sounds crazy, but have you ever just considred weaning her off of everything and just seeing how she does with a super healthy diet? I often wondered if when I had Lola on soooo many meds if it was actually making her worse. At one point I really thought she was close to the end, and I took her off almost everything. I also weaned her to the lowest dose possible for her pred (0.25 every other day) and she actually started perking up. Ultimatley she passed (But she had GME afterall) but I do feel that all the drugs were contributing to a poor quality of life for her. Sometimes the combination of meds can actually become toxic due to some drug interactions. In humans they call it polypharmacy syndrome and it can actually be quite serious. Best of luck with her.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Sure hope she feels better soon!


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## ladodd (Jan 8, 2012)

Tori, will say prayers and sending positive thoughts that Grace improves quickly. Hugs to you all.


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Tori -- such great news. Grace has been through so much and had several drugs that probably messed up for system. Glad that she's back on holistic meds.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Lacie's Mom said:


> Tori -- such great news. Grace has been through so much and had several drugs that probably messed up for system. Glad that she's back on holistic meds.


Just as with conventional medications, holistic or herbal meds can cause food or drug interactions that can be quite serious. Combining some herbal meds with certain foods or other med can lead to reduced drug efficacy, increased chance for side effects, or a potential of dangerous increase in some drug efficacies. Caution is the word here. Sometimes less is more.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

pammy4501 said:


> Wow, that is a lot of meds for a little doggie. I know this sounds crazy, but have you ever just considred weaning her off of everything and just seeing how she does with a super healthy diet? I often wondered if when I had Lola on soooo many meds if it was actually making her worse. At one point I really thought she was close to the end, and I took her off almost everything. I also weaned her to the lowest dose possible for her pred (0.25 every other day) and she actually started perking up. Ultimatley she passed (But she had GME afterall) but I do feel that all the drugs were contributing to a poor quality of life for her. Sometimes the combination of meds can actually become toxic due to some drug interactions. In humans they call it polypharmacy syndrome and it can actually be quite serious. Best of luck with her.





pammy4501 said:


> Just as with conventional medications, holistic or herbal meds can cause food or drug interactions that can be quite serious. Combining some herbal meds with certain foods or other med can lead to reduced drug efficacy, increased chance for side effects, or a potential of dangerous increase in some drug efficacies. Caution is the word here. Sometimes less is more.



Grace was actually off all holistic treatments except the one for her brain/nerve damage (helps her pee and is homeopathic, not an herb/drug) for a few months. She did great until this ear infection.

All the holistic and homeopathic treatments are just that: treatments. She doesn't stay on them long term.

But they do get her back to a place of balance and where I feel she is healthy.... meaning: nothing needed.

This was an unforeseen medical crisis - her ear drum was so damaged. And unfortunately our holistic vet was out of town during this so we had to rely on the regular vet to help her. He did his best, and her ear is better. But unfortunately conventional drugs are just so hard on Grace's system that I wasn't surprised for her to have a liver flare.

I won't stop giving her things for now. Grace does well with homeopathic medicine. And I have a feeling that when we see Dr. Julie in 2 weeks she will be pulled off most if not all of them again 

And actually - homeopathic medicine has no side effects as long as it is taken at the proper dose. It is an "essence" of a remedy, not an actual drug or herb.....


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Grace'sMom said:


> *And actually - homeopathic medicine has no side effects as long as it is taken at the proper dose. It is an "essence" of a remedy, not an actual drug or herb.....[/*QUOTE]
> 
> With all due respect, I disagree with this statement. ANY drug can have side effects at any dose. I'm not quite sure what you mean by it's "an essence of a remedy, not an actual drug or herb.." The problem with many of these things is that they are considered dietary suppliments an not regulated in any safe way. Concentrations and vary (which makes proper dosing inaccurate) and impurities can have been found in some brands. Use with Caution is the word here.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

pammy4501 said:


> Grace'sMom said:
> 
> 
> > *And actually - homeopathic medicine has no side effects as long as it is taken at the proper dose. It is an "essence" of a remedy, not an actual drug or herb.....[/*QUOTE]
> ...


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## chichi (Apr 12, 2007)

Glad to hear that Grace is on the mend.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

MalteseJane said:


> pammy4501 said:
> 
> 
> > Homeopathic medicine is NOT a dietary supplement. And it's not a drug or herb. It has been used safely for ages in Europe. It is not very well known here in the States.
> ...


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh good. I'm late, but just in time to hear that Grace is better. Sweet kissies to little Gracie.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Sylie said:


> Oh good. I'm late, but just in time to hear that Grace is better. Sweet kissies to little Gracie.


Agreed, that's the most important thing!


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm not trying to be an alarmist but I searched for nux vomica - it's strychnine which is used in rat poison: NUX VOMICA: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD

I would be extremely cautious about using that with a small dog. The web site even says it can cause liver damage so please be careful!


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

maggieh said:


> I'm not trying to be an alarmist but I searched for nux vomica - it's strychnine which is used in rat poison: NUX VOMICA: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD
> 
> I would be extremely cautious about using that with a small dog. The web site even says it can cause liver damage so please be careful!


yikes!


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## StevieB (Feb 2, 2012)

OMG: "Nux vomica contains strychnine and other chemicals that affect the brain and cause muscle contractions. This can lead to convulsions and death. Strychnine in amounts that are too small to produce symptoms can still be a serious problem. Small amounts of strychnine build up in the body with continued use, especially in people with liver disease. This can cause death in a period of weeks. Strychnine poisoning can be detected with laboratory tests."


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Oh the joys of Allopathic medicine and the FDA...... How they love to scare people into believing the only way is their way. Sorry but I hate WebMD and any health site linked to FDA, CDC, IDSA....

I would not give my dog something that would kill her. My vet would never give Gracie something that would harm her, either.

Homeopathy has been used for thousands of years.

It is, IMO, the safest form of medicine... far safer than any drug made in a laboratory pushed by big pharma....

Sorry....

I won't share my treatments anymore. 


Thank you all for the prayers for Grace.... She had a Nux Vomica injection today and is already back to her lively self.....


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

> Nux vomica is a plant. The seed is used to make medicine.
> 
> Despite serious safety concerns, nux vomica is used for diseases of the digestive tract, disorders of the heart and circulatory system, diseases of the eye, and lung disease. It is also used for nerve conditions, depression, migraineheadache, symptoms of menopause, and a blood vessel disorder called Raynaud's disease.
> 
> ...


What Tori is using has nothing to do with this.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

*In manufacturing, nux vomica is used as rat poison. That’s because it contains strychnine and brucine, two deadly chemica*ls. Please do careful research on what she is taking especially in light of her liver condition.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Grace'sMom said:


> Oh the joys of Allopathic medicine and the FDA...... *How they love to scare people into believing the only way is their way. *Sorry but I hate WebMD and any health site linked to FDA, CDC, IDSA....
> 
> I would not give my dog something that would kill her. My vet would never give Gracie something that would harm her, either.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup:


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

MalteseJane said:


> What Tori is using has nothing to do with this.


Could you clarify further how and why you think it's not the same thing?


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Tori, what we are saying is that even "natural" remedies can be harmful when given in too large of doses and with Grace's liver problems, caution is needed. 

Holistic and homeopathic remedies can be fantastic - I use them with my girls - but I am very careful to use only the smallest amounts with our small fluffs. 

People also think that natural means more is safe and that is definitely not true. Also not all homeopathic remedies are safe for everyone or every fluff. I can't use echinacea because I have severe pollen allergies. I tried it once and wound up at the emergency clinic with my eyes swollen shut. So just because something is natural doesn't means it's not without risk.

We want Grace to be safe and healthy and there are several websites with cautions on this remedy so please be careful.


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Tori, I am so glad that Grace is doing so much better. You must be very relieved.

Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I always learn from your posts.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Echinachea is not homeopathic. Echinachea is herbal - so would go into the world of Holistic yes...or Chinese medicine.

Homeopathic medicine is basically energy medicine.

Every living thing has a vibration. When you are sick or injured or having some unwanted symptom then your energy or vibration is unbalanced....

So Homeopathic practitioners use homeopathic remedies to get your energy/vibration back to balance.

There is only the "essence" or the vibration/energy of the Nux Vomica in the homeopathic remedy. There is no poison. No seed. No physical form of the plant.

It's a very old medicine, like Chinese medicine......


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

Tori, I'm glad you shared because I think we're all learning from this. As for me, until today, I had no idea what the difference was between herbs, natural medicine, and homeopathic remedies. According to what I'm reading, homeopathy is controversial because some claim it's basically just water (placebo effect). I find it hard to believe it could be dangerous since the remedies are so extremely diluted. But I don't know. I want to learn more.


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## StevieB (Feb 2, 2012)

That's a relief. So she's not actually ingesting the nux Vomica? This is all new to me as well. 


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

Grace'sMom said:


> Echinachea is not homeopathic. Echinachea is herbal - so would go into the world of Holistic yes...or Chinese medicine.
> 
> Homeopathic medicine is basically energy medicine.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarifying, Tori. It's true that if it's just essence it's basically water. Drinking water shouldn't have any side effects at all. To oversimplify the whole process, Essence is made by keeping flowers next to water and letting sun transfer the energy of the flower to the water. So there is no chemical ramifications of the process.

However, for others reading this, there are different kinds of homeopathic medicines. All homeopathic medicines are not just water with essence. Some have alcohol and possibly other substances. So be careful and thorough if you take this path in treating yourself or your dogs.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

eiksaa said:


> Thanks for clarifying, Tori. It's true that if it's just essence it's basically water. Drinking water shouldn't have any side effects at all. To oversimplify the whole process, Essence is made by keeping flowers next to water and letting sun transfer the energy of the flower to the water. So there is no chemical ramifications of the process.
> 
> However, for others reading this, there are different kinds of homeopathic medicines. All homeopathic medicines are not just water with essence. Some *have alcohol and possibly other substances. *So be careful and thorough if you take this path in treating yourself or your dogs.


You are confused. You are thinking of flower essence that you can buy either with vinegar or brandy as a preservative. Homeopathic medicine comes in pellets or if mixed with water there is no alcohol involved. At least not in the one I took.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

maggieh said:


> Tori, what we are saying is that even "natural" remedies can be harmful when given in too large of doses and with Grace's liver problems, caution is needed.
> 
> Holistic and homeopathic remedies can be fantastic - I use them with my girls - but I am very careful to use only the smallest amounts with our small fluffs.
> 
> ...


_Natural, Holistic, herbs _are NOT homeopathy. Echinacea is NOT homeopathy. 

If homeopathy would be harmful, a lot of people would be dead in Germany where it is used a lot. The German Government recognized not so long ago that Homeopathy actually works. Before it was accepted in France, a lot of French people went to Germany to be treated there by homeopathic doctors. Now it's popular in France too.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

*READ

*http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/about-homeopathy/what-is-homeopathy/

Homeopathy (Homeopathic Remedies): What Is It?


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

MalteseJane said:


> You are confused. You are thinking of flower essence that you can buy either with vinegar or brandy as a preservative. Homeopathic medicine comes in pellets or if mixed with water there is no alcohol involved. At least not in the one I took.


You got lucky. There's definitely homeopathy medicines with alcohol. 

http://www.classichomeopathy.com/remedies/howmade.html

http://homeopathyonweb.com/zap_site...d-homeopathic-medicines-have-an-Alcohol-Base?

http://www.ritecare.com/homeopathic/guide_general.asp

Please please I urge everyone to be very sure before making claims about any sort of medicinal treatments. 


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## Critterkrazy (Jan 17, 2007)

Sorry to hear about Gracie. _I hope she begins to heal, poor baby. Sending hugs and kisses to baby Gracie._


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

eiksaa said:


> You got lucky. There's definitely homeopathy medicines with alcohol.
> 
> Classical Homeopathy - How are Homeopathic Remedies Made?
> 
> ...


Please read everything in those links and don't take things out of context. All homeopathic remedies in the stores are sold in form of pellets or creams or gels. I have taken homeopathy in liquid form but the solution was put together by a homeopath and I can assure you there was NO alcohol in it. It tasted like water. Be careful also where the information comes from. Not everything on the internet is true. And by the way, a lot of conventional medicine contains alcohol that has not evaporated.

* Why do Liquid Homeopathic Remedies have an Alcohol Base?
*The alcohol base in homeopathic remedies* is required by the FDA* as a preservative in liquid formulas; however, if you are sensitive to alcohol or just don't like the taste, you can pour a day's dosage into a glass of warm water and just let it sit. *Most of the alcohol will evaporate over a period of 3 to 4 hours* at which time you may sip the remedy throughout the day as directed.


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

MalteseJane said:


> Please read everything in those links and don't take things out of context. All homeopathic remedies in the stores are sold in form of pellets or creams or gels. I have taken homeopathy in liquid form but the solution was put together by a homeopath and I can assure you there was NO alcohol in it. It tasted like water. Be careful also where the information comes from. Not everything on the internet is true. And by the way, a lot of conventional medicine contains alcohol that has not evaporated.
> 
> * Why do Liquid Homeopathic Remedies have an Alcohol Base?
> *The alcohol base in homeopathic remedies* is required by the FDA* as a preservative in liquid formulas; however, if you are sensitive to alcohol or just don't like the taste, you can pour a day's dosage into a glass of warm water and just let it sit. *Most of the alcohol will evaporate over a period of 3 to 4 hours* at which time you may sip the remedy throughout the day as directed.


I don't understand what the problem is here. 

I know a lot of conventional meds have alcohol. I am not saying they don't. 

I am not saying homeopathy is bad. 

I am not saying your meds had alcohol. But now I'm wondering if its an FDA requirement like you quoted, why didn't your homeopath follow that. 

I was just saying all homeopathic meds are not alcohol free. Some fluffs don't do well with alcohol. Gustave has had two bloody diarrhea episodes from the alcohol in LEBA III. So I am personally careful about that now and that's all I wanted to warn others against. 

Alcohol evaporates 3-4 hours after you expose the med, so the bottle (if airtight) still has alcohol in it. 

I am not believing anything I read from one source. Just Google 'do homeopathy meds have alcohol' and you will find multiple sources that say the same. 

Honestly, it seems to me at this point you are disagreeing just for the sake of being right about homeopathy not having alcohol. Which is not accurate. The facts are all there. But I'll say it again, 

Homeopathy is not bad. Alcohol is not bad. But if your fluff is sensitive to it, make sure you either get the alcohol free version or let it evaporate by exposing each dose for 3-4 hours. Because some homeopathic meds have alcohol. 

Edited to add - I'm not saying LEBA III is homeopathic. Just wanted to give an example of why I'm cautious about alcohol. Just wanted to clarify that before someone says "all natural things are not homeopathy" yet again. 


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

I know you mean well but you are coming across as being too fearful and by doing so you can transfer your own fears to other people when there is no reason to be. Nobody in his right mind will feed alcohol to it's dog. I have to check this out next time I am at Sprout's, but most homeopathic medicine is sold in pellets, cream or gel and don't contain alcohol. I don't think that a Vet would give alcohol to a pet in a dose that would harm him. You are talking about LEBA III and think that your dog got diarrhea from it because of the alcohol content. There are other things in that product that might be more harmful than the alcohol. I have used it with Alex with no problem tho I did not think it helped with plaque. I have used flower essence preserved in alcohol with Alex without any problems. It always comes down to one thing : quantity. Petzlife contains alcohol too and I am using it with Charlie all the time. 
Now do I believe in homeopathy ? I think it works in some cases and depends on the knowledge of the doctor. The one I saw for my particular condition was not very good. But some over the counter products helped me. I am taking Influenzinum every year during the winter months and it helps me keeping colds away. I am also using Optique 1 from Boiron for my eyes and it works better than the conventional product my eye doctor gave me.

I don't want to convince anybody and if you don't believe in it so be it, it's your body. But I don't want either people trying to convince me that a product is bad or harmful when in effect it isn't. _(I don't mean you in particular, so don't take this personally)_



eiksaa said:


> I don't understand what the problem is here.
> 
> I know a lot of conventional meds have alcohol. I am not saying they don't.
> 
> ...


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

Janine, I think we operate on different planes when it comes to logic. Your contradictory statements have me confused. You say no one in their right mind will give alcohol to their dog, and then you later go on to admit giving your dog alcohol in flower essence and dental sprays. I just can't reason with this. 

My intention is not to spread fear. But I do not condone others making factually incorrect statements. Let people know the TRUTH and let them decide. 

I find it ironic you would post this here-



MalteseJane said:


> I don't think that a Vet would give alcohol to a pet in a dose that would harm him.


We all know how much Grace has suffered because of a vet's poor judgement. We've heard many stories of pets being 'harmed' by what the vet did. Lets not trust vets blindly. Lets not trust ANYTHING blindly. Lets find out the facts(and not the twisted truth) and then decide. I'll leave you with that final thought. 


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

eiksaa said:


> Janine, I think we operate on different planes when it comes to logic. Your contradictory statements have me confused. You say no one in their right mind will give alcohol to their dog, and then you later go on to admit giving your dog alcohol in flower essence and dental sprays. I just can't reason with this.
> 
> My intention is not to spread fear. But I do not condone others making factually incorrect statements. Let people know the TRUTH and let them decide.
> 
> ...


:goodpost::goodpost:


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

> You say no one in their right mind will give alcohol to their dog


Sorry I should have been more precise. What I meant is giving a shot or glass of any kind of alcohol to a dog. You cannot compare this with the amount of alcohol that you would use with flower essence or tooth paste. By the way, I don't use the spray. I use Petzlife gel. 

When it comes to Grace, if I remember well, it was not poor judgment. It was an error that they tried to push under the rug.


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