# Our Very First Raw Chicken Wing



## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to share Snowy and Crystal's story of today and to try and get a little info about raw food, and see if I am doing it right. 

I know that this topic has been discussed before, but we are still new to this whole raw food thing, and it still look kindda weird to me  

The reason why I decided to change is because I heard and read that it is healthier.

I did some research about how to start and based on that, I gave Snowy and Crystal a piece of raw chicken wing (one for each) today -with its bones: this part is really NEW to me-.

Crystal was crazy about it!!! OMG!! I should have recorded her while she was chewing and chewing and chewing

but if you saw Snowy's first expression when seeing the raw chicken on his dish, you would have thought of him thinking: "what am I supposed to do with this...give real food, mommy" :HistericalSmiley: ....but then he gave it few licks and little by little started to chew on it AND just LOVED it :w00t: 

Yet, I still have this question of am I doing it right? 

Can anyone (raw food feeders) tell me how do you prepare your malt's meal (from the fridge to your malt's dish)? something simple since I'm just a beginner 

What is the next step I can take ?

Thanks in advance

Kat


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Oh, Kat, I may be wrong, but I've always heard that chicken bones are too small for our babies, that they could choke on them. I know that raw food has been debated, and there are arguments on both sides. I feed Bonnie freeze dried raw patties (Stella and Chewy brand), and she loves it, but it's very different from a straight raw food diet.

I'm sure you'll get some responses from people more knowledgable than me!


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks for your input Linda :grouphug: 



> I know that raw food has been debated, and there are arguments on both sides.[/B]


My main reason to why I am still not sure about this whole thing  




> freeze dried raw patties (Stella and Chewy brand)[/B]


while searching, I found that some people dont recommend the freeze dried raw brands


This raw feeding thing is more confusing than I thought...I just love my malts, want the best for them and would hate it if I did anything wrong and caused a health problem to them...don't know what step to take next


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

I thought that this site was helpful

Raw Food


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

That's an interesting site, but it is definitely one sided. I always forget to ask my vet about a raw food diet. I wonder what their opinion would be. Just curious, what have you heard against freeze dried raw? My pet food store says it's the highest quality they carry (which may say it all there, but I believe that they are a higher caliber store than many). I'm like you, I'm sure - just looking for the best food to give our babies. :wub:


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

Hi Kat--I always heard chicken bones were a no-no too--they splinter when broken apart. Also, I'd be concerned about salmonella. The thing about raw meat is that I don't trust food precessor places and the stuff that gets picked up on the meat along the way, etc. ALso I'd definitely only go with organic/no hormone/free range, etc. Let us know the more you find out.....


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

Raw chicken wings are fine for your baby. They are soft and do not splinter. Mine just don't like it. I buy the prepared raw and the freeze dried. I also have tried the raw organ meats and they also gave me a crazy look. It is suppose to be the healthiest for them. Just make sure you add the veggies and fruits. NEVER give them cooked bones because they do splinter.

http://www.barfworld.com/html/barf_diet/barfdiet.shtml
http://www.rawfed.com/
http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html#co-ops


Here are some links there are many more. Oh and raw neck bones too!


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## villemo (Aug 21, 2006)

raw chicken bones are ok - but only raw... steini & fairy get chicken wings and necks . it´s great for their teeth. they get whole raw sardines too - no problem... i give them almost every meat (& fisch) i can buy - except pork. add oil, carrots apples, pears, salad, spinach, potatoes, cheese, yogurt etc. - no cereals because of allergies.

I asked our vet about raw food and she said it´s not good and recommended kibble, but i know, that they sell it, so its extra money for them...


i give them raw for now 6 months and see, that my malts feel much better with it, are healthier, have better teeth and hair, and now LOVE their food.


i would tell you much more about raw, but i have probs with the language... :brownbag: (but if you want, i could ask schnuppe to translate some recipes)


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## BrookeB676 (Oct 17, 2004)

We do raw, but we use the primal patties. I gave mine a raw marrow bone the other day and Haley seemed so blown up and Rocky I think threw up. I met a vet at the pet food store the other day while she was buying raw bones and she said they needed the raw bones for their teeth, but I dont know how to give it to them. Do you do it outside? How do you clean their faces? Do you just wash the wing off with water and give it to them? The whole "real" raw thing confuses me, but I definitely would like to do it for their tetth.


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

> I always forget to ask my vet about a raw food diet. I wonder what their opinion would be. Just curious,[/B]


Here is something that I just found :biggrin: I still did not read the whole thing, but will sure do

vets and raw food

What I already read before is that there are some vets who don't advice to feed raw because some support commercial pet food. I also read the reason for them to do that can be because they get commision or discount ...etc behind this *money making*  

Another reason I read of some still not advising it is because in some universities, they still don't teach alot about this raw feeding. 



> what have you heard against freeze dried raw?[/B]


You know, I kept on searching and searching, reading here and there in the internet until my eyes were forcing me to stop :smstarz: I cannot find the site now about the freeze dried raw brand, but when I sit again and do this research and find it, will sure post it here  However, what I understood about freeze dried raw brands that they are still missing few important things.

Personally, after hearing about these *recalled* commercial food, I kindda find it hard to 100% trust any brand selling dog food in the market. Snowy and Crystal eat their kibbles but its just because I'm still not sure about how to prepare a healthy homemade meal. 
And I always wonder, now that pet owners are aware of the recalled food, wont it be possibe for new brands to come out in the market selling *raw food*, and their main purpose for doing it can be to make profit and maybe for wanting to make money forget to add few important things in the food or remove few important things to reduce cost = more profit, or I don't know, but it scares me when I see, hear and read that some people can do anything just to make money.



> I'm like you, I'm sure - just looking for the best food to give our babies. :wub:[/B]


I'm sure that all doggie lovers/owners are the same :wub:


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

> Hi Kat--I always heard chicken bones were a no-no too--they splinter when broken apart.[/B]


thats what I heard too, but for *cooked* chicken bones, not raw ones.



> I'd be concerned about salmonella.[/B]


I read that dog's immune system is different than the humans which will make it okay for dogs to handle this. 



> Let us know the more you find out.....[/B]


will sure do. I still don't know AT ALL and still learning

Here is something that I found about:

small dogs and raw feeding


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

will have to leave home now...will get back again, but thank you sooo much for your infor guys :grouphug:


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

You guys really came up with some good sites to look at. I tried feeding it with my group. Some wouldn't eat it and some ate it for awhile then wouldn't eat it any more. I still feed salmon to them and most of the time they will eat it. Most of mine wouldn't eat the whole chicken leg but will eat a turkey leg. 
Here is another site to go to: http://www.rawlearning.com/ It has more links to go to.
Always interested in learning new ideas about this.
Tina


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

Here are two freeze dried I feed mine.

http://www.stellaandchewys.com/
http://naturesvariety.com/content.lasso?pa...16AA7Sti21A7C00


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

> Here are two freeze dried I feed mine.
> 
> http://www.stellaandchewys.com/[/B]


I feed Stella and Chewy's, too.

Kat, I agree about vets promoting food that they sell or receive some sort of compensation for pushing. I also had the same concerns you have about the recent food recalls. Stella and Chewy's prepares their food on site, with no 'outside' ingredients. All their livestock is raised on site, as well as all fruits and vegetables grown there, so there is no chance for outside contamination.

I have heard that dogs and cats are not susceptible to salmonella, the way humans are. That was either on the site you originally listed, Kat, or on the Stella and Chewy's website. So that is one concern in the raw food diet debate that can be quashed.

This is interesting, I'm definitely going to follow this thread!


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## Zoe and Bella's mom (Jan 23, 2006)

From what I understand, chicken bones are OK to feed as long as they have not been cooked. When raw, the bones are supple enough to go down just fine. 

I started Zoe and Bella on _Urban Wolf raw diet_ 4 days ago and Zoe has _already_ stopped scratching herself - even my husband noticed the difference. They both love their new diet and gobble it down! Urban Wolf diet provides the veggie/fruit mix and I add Omega 3 capsules and/or a can of salmon, organic raw meat (they are on turkey), sunflower oil, water and egg. They are digesting the new food well (didn't have any problems changing them over "cold turkey" :biggrin: ), and for the first time, they both look forward to meal time!

I make up a good size batch and freeze the portions in ice cube trays before putting them all in one big freezer container, then put enough in the refrigerator for a couple days at a time (4 cubes). Zoe and Bella each get an ice cube serving in the morning and one each again in the evening (which is about l/4 cup of food daily).


ginny & zoe & bella


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

*Linda, I found the site about the pre-packaged raw food* :chili: :chili: 

And thanks to Tina for posting the exact link that I visited and read through :thumbsup: 

Here it is


> http://www.rawlearning.com/[/B]


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

*Linda, I found the site about the pre-packaged raw food* :chili: :chili: 

And thanks to Tina for posting the exact link that I visited and read through :thumbsup: 

"Pre-packed raw foods are entering the market in a big way. However, for the most part, they are inappropriate food stuffs. Here's just some of the problems with them: 

Different standards for packaging dog food than for packaging human foods 
You don't know how much of different foods are in your pack (unless you are sent an entire carcass) 
5-10 times more expensive than buying directly from your butcher 
Usually, they are ground food - which is not species appropriate - both dogs and cats need whole raw meaty bones and/or carcasses 
Contain unnecessary supplements 
Contain fruit and vegetables - which are just not appropriate for dogs or cats (Katkoota: not sure about this part though)".

Here it is


> http://www.rawlearning.com/[/B]


I came to the point where I started to think that the more natural the food that is given to the dog, the best shape and health the dog will have


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

> and raw neck bones too![/B]


oooh that was in my next thing to feed list  



> http://www.barfworld.com/html/barf_diet/barfdiet.shtml
> http://www.rawfed.com/
> http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html#co-ops[/B]


thanks for the links, will go through them :biggrin:


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

> except pork.[/B]


I cant remember which site was it, but that person did not recomment pork as well




> (but if you want, i could ask schnuppe to translate some recipes) [/B]


Oh - yeah I would LOVE to....can you do that Schnuppe? I can speak a little German, but I don't think that I will understand a whole recipe in German 



> I asked our vet about raw food and she said it´s not good and recommended kibble, but i know, that they sell it, so its extra money for them...[/B]


 :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

> Do you do it outside? How do you clean their faces? Do you just wash the wing off with water and give it to them?[/B]


S and C only tried the chicken wing (yesterday and today), I fed them outside in the yard coz they just couldn't eat them while they were in their dishes

About their faces, I just got a towel, wet it with warm water and cleaned around their mouths - but really, for now, I am not concerned about how clean their moouths should be until I get to the point where I become 100% confident about the best food to feed them...then I will be concerened about the cleaning part although I still make sure that I clean them :biggrin:

and yeah what I did was wash the wing off with water and gave it to them. I watched a video of a dog eating a raw chicken wing in youtube, asked the owner the same question that you asked here, then that was her answer...and thats what I did afterwards


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## Ricky & Lucy's Mom (Nov 7, 2007)

How would it be to feed them as normal, but say once every week--or two weeks, give them a piece of raw. I'm still not sure about this--but I'm not very trusting of commercial food and I do value their health even above my distaste of the whole idea. I know that some swear by the benefits of this raw feeding. I've never tried it though.


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

> Stella and Chewy's prepares their food on site, with no 'outside' ingredients. All their livestock is raised on site, as well as all fruits and vegetables grown there, so there is no chance for outside contamination.[/B]


then thats a good sign 




> So that is one concern in the raw food diet debate that can be *quashed.*[/B]


 :biggrin: :biggrin:


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## Katkoota (Feb 18, 2006)

> From what I understand, chicken bones are OK to feed as long as they have not been cooked. When raw, the bones are supple enough to go down just fine.
> 
> I started Zoe and Bella on _Urban Wolf raw diet_ 4 days ago and Zoe has _already_ stopped scratching herself - even my husband noticed the difference. They both love their new diet and gobble it down! Urban Wolf diet provides the veggie/fruit mix and I add Omega 3 capsules and/or a can of salmon, organic raw meat (they are on turkey), sunflower oil, water and egg. They are digesting the new food well (didn't have any problems changing them over "cold turkey" :biggrin: ), and for the first time, they both look forward to meal time!
> 
> ...


your story is sure encouraging me to this raw feeding thing :grouphug: :smilie_daumenpos:


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## villemo (Aug 21, 2006)

as long as i have no text  i´d like to show you some pics that say a lot about how steini loves his raw food









yummyyyy a chicken neck









hey it´s mine and i don´t even let you try :biggrin: 









never - nooooo way... :eusa_hand: 



they usually get it in the kitchen, so i can easyliy clean up... but in this pic he is in his bed - it was time to wasch their beds, so it was ok.
fot cleaning the faces i also use a towel with warm water and a little bit shampoo on it.


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

So do you guys buy the meat fresh and feed it or do you buy the meat fresh, then freeze, then defrost then feed? Someone told me for raw feeding its best to freeze the meat for two weeks first and then defrost before feeding. I have no clue if thats true or not.


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## Ricky & Lucy's Mom (Nov 7, 2007)

Do they eat the chicken skin? Also, I saw a reference to canned salmon. Can you give them canned salmon like what we would use to make salmon patties with?


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

> Do they eat the chicken skin? Also, I saw a reference to canned salmon. Can you give them canned salmon like what we would use to make salmon patties with?[/B]


My malt is on homecooked diet. I do give him canned salmon as part of his meal. I get wild caught, No salt added. The only ingedient in the salmon is salmon. Nothing else. I get the kind that has the bones in it and just smush the bones before giving it to him.


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

Sorry, double post.


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## MickeysMom (Jun 16, 2006)

I don't know why a lot of you seem to think that the vets get compensated for selling kibble. As far as I know, and from my experience, it is not true. I have worked for and interned for a lot of different vets, and all of my professors are vets. 

They recommend not feeding raw because it is so important that you feed a well balanced diet, and a lot of people who feed raw don't have a clue how to do it. They just feed raw meat. They need the bones and the organs as well. You all know how many people are out there that just don't care for their animals properly, can you imagine if they started trying to create their own diet? We have one client who feeds her 2 newfoundland pups raw chopmeat and nothing else. She will not listen to us when we say it's not a good idea, she thinks we're trying to make more money somehow. Honestly, I don't care and my boss doesn't care how much money she spends,or where she buys her kibble. Don't you think if it were about money, we would be recommending things to make them have to come to the vet?? If your vet's income is based off of selling food, then your vet isn't providing the best services that he or she can. They make their money by clients spreading the word that they are good and caring, and then they get more clients. Not from selling food or vaccines....

Anyway, I'm sorry, but I am in the profession and get insulted when people say we're only in it for money. If that were the case, I'd make more money waiting tables.

Also, dogs can get salmonella. Please be careful.


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## villemo (Aug 21, 2006)

> So do you guys buy the meat fresh and feed it or do you buy the meat fresh, then freeze, then defrost then feed?[/B]


 both - yes...

i buy it fresh and feed it the same day, but i also buy frozen meat, defrost, mix with the veggies and feed then...


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

I sent an email to Jane Anderson (http://www.rawlearning.com/) asking her what her credentials were to make these claims. She is a breeder of Portuguese Water Dogs, and feeds her dogs only raw. She is not a vet or an animal nutritionist. I find the information fascinating, but nothing groundbreaking, that I haven't read before. I believe that Bonnie's food is of high quality, and due to constraints we have, (space - as in refrigerator/kitchen space being high on the list) will continue to feed her the freeze dried raw. But thanks very much, Kat, for bringing this up. I hope that if you choose to feed raw, that S&C thrive on it. :wub:


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

im not going to post in regards to the raw food thing just wanted to say as a vet on production ( all the money i make is based on my services and medicines) I make no profit whatsoever on food...there r no incentives for me to promote a particular product except for the fact that some dogs need certain perscription diets and most have a better quality of life and live a longer life on them. that is why i put dogs on these diets and i dont get one cent from them...but i do make money b/c they live longer and i get to see them more in my practice. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## MickeysMom (Jun 16, 2006)

> im not going to post in regards to the raw food thing just wanted to say as a vet on production ( all the money i make is based on my services and medicines) I make no profit whatsoever on food...there r no incentives for me to promote a particular product except for the fact that some dogs need certain perscription diets and most have a better quality of life and live a longer life on them. that is why i put dogs on these diets and i dont get one cent from them...but i do make money b/c they live longer and i get to see them more in my practice. :smilie_daumenpos:[/B]


This is exactly what I was talking about in my post. 

Thank you!


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

> I don't know why a lot of you seem to think that the vets get compensated for selling kibble. As far as I know, and from my experience, it is not true. I have worked for and interned for a lot of different vets, and all of my professors are vets.
> 
> They recommend not feeding raw because it is so important that you feed a well balanced diet, and a lot of people who feed raw don't have a clue how to do it. They just feed raw meat. They need the bones and the organs as well. You all know how many people are out there that just don't care for their animals properly, can you imagine if they started trying to create their own diet? We have one client who feeds her 2 newfoundland pups raw chopmeat and nothing else. She will not listen to us when we say it's not a good idea, she thinks we're trying to make more money somehow. Honestly, I don't care and my boss doesn't care how much money she spends,or where she buys her kibble. Don't you think if it were about money, we would be recommending things to make them have to come to the vet?? If your vet's income is based off of selling food, then your vet isn't providing the best services that he or she can. They make their money by clients spreading the word that they are good and caring, and then they get more clients. Not from selling food or vaccines....
> 
> ...


Thank you for backing my claim that dogs and cats CAN, indeed, get salmonella. PLEASE, those that feed raw, read this info from the Centers of Disease Control (CDC): http://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/schwarzengrund_faq.html This is a government agency that has no bias on these "raw" issues--please heed their cautions. By ANY means I'm not trying to start any fights--I just hope you all that are feeding raw REALLY know what you're doing...


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