# Boarding School Anyone?



## manolomom

My little Emme has just packed her bags Monday night for a 5 weeks of board/training program. Her big brother Manolo went there last year and he loved it, and I loved the result.


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## Gabby

Ive no idea about such program. She will be away 5 weeks? I guess I wouldnt be able to be away from my fluffs for that long. I would love to hear more about the program though. 
Hope your little one has a wonderful time there 


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## Leila'sMommy

Aww, she is just too cute!! Will you be able to visit her while she's gone? I don't know if I could be separated from Leila that long myself. I'm looking forward to hearing more about it too. 


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## Summergirl73

No way could I leave Bella for 5 weeks. Do you get to go with her?


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## Zoe's Mom88

I have never heard of anything like that either. Oh boy I wouldn't want to let her go for so long.....I hope you will be with her.


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## manolomom

The program called solid k9 training. Last year I was searching for a training program for my Manolo. My little man was great in the house but when it came to outside, he was out of control. I could not walk him I was being pulled by this 8 lb. havanese., who was barking like a mad man. I tried all types of dog class/programs not one of them could help. They just keep saying all ways have treats. But If your pups in that mind set a treat is not going to help. I would just be rewarding bad behavior.:smilie_tischkante:
In Rhode Island monthly it has a section about dog and I came across Jeff Gellman at solid k9 training. I called him told him my story. After doing more research I sent Manolo for 3 weeks of training; he learned all his commands, walking with a proper heel, he knows how to walk on a treadmill (for those snowy & rainy days) and perfect recall which on those beach days he can run along the shore but once I say Manolo he is back by side. Most of all he is a balanced dog. :chili: 
I know 5 weeks is a lot but she is a puppy who needs balance, and socialization. I miss that sweet face so much but I know this the right option for my fur family.


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## Furbabies mom

They have a program here like that, but no I couldn't leave mine.. Even for a day!!LOL


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## manolomom

I only went to drop her off, and talk with trainer. This is my second time doing this and honestly it was harder with my first pup. I know what to expect so I am not worried at all. I seen everything I need to see and i know she is safe. She in the process of learning all her commands.


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## Grace'sMom

You are brave and trusting. I'd never leave my dog somewhere for someone to train where I couldn't see what they were doing.

No videos so you can watch online? Even dog day cares and boarding facilities offer that.....

I have heard nightmare stories about those "boarding training" places. One by that name in another state, my neighbor's Great Dane puppy died while there. The trainer was at fault.... 

I just wouldn't do it.

But I hope it goes well for you.


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## maltese manica

I to have heard horrible stories about places like that! I do wish you the best!


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## manolomom

It's unfortunate that some of you have heard horror stories about boarding training facilities but I am hundred percent comfortable with leaving any one of my dogs at this place. I have personal done enough research to know that my dog is safe. My dogs are with me 24 seven they come to work with me and I need a dog that's well-trained.


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## eiksaa

I think we are all a little too overprotective over here. I know I am. 

I had considered this option too but decided against it because luckily I have someone who can stay at home with Gustave and train him and also, well, see above about being overprotective. 

I am sure you will only do what's best for your baby. How often do you get to visit? 


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## kaeco510

Wow...I don't think I could be away from Sadie for that long (and vice versa!). Although it would be nice to have her be fully-trained! I hope everything goes well


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## shellbeme

I hope it works out for you. I would NEVER enroll one of my dogs in a boarding/training program.


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## eiksaa

Also, she is SO cute. I love this pic. 


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## hoaloha

Emme is adorable!!! I hope she has a good experience and I know you will miss her!

I am also one who would never send my dog to a boarding facility for training away from the owner/parent. why? Because I believe the whole core of training should be based upon the bond and communication between the dog and his/her owner. I'm a firm believer that training is not only based in that bond, but strengthens it exponentially. I think that owners should be responsible for socialization of their puppies and work with trainers if they are not able to train the dog. Most of dog training is about training the owner too!

That being said, if one is unable for some reason to provide the proper socialization and upbringing for the puppy especially in those crucial developmental period (between 12-16 wks and again another fear period around 6 months), then boarding may be the less ideal way to have the dog socialized. Its far better to have a socialized dog (if that means from elsewhere) than to keep your dog at home and not properly socialize it - which may lead to a fearful, reactive dog who has poor social skills. That is something that you may have to deal with for the dog's life. Many dogs are rehomed or put in shelters 
due to behavioral issues that could be avoided with proper socialization and training early in life.
I guess boarding, although not ideal, with some highly skilled trainer is better than no training or socialization at all.

I highly encourage those who read this forum to utilize books, video, Internet to train WITH your dog- it is VeRY REWARDING.


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## summer

manolomom said:


> My little Emme has just packed her bags Monday night for a 5 weeks of board/training program. Her big brother Manolo went there last year and he loved it, and I loved the result.


Is that a chock collar that you have on your maltese? Its my opinion that sending a maltese to a training camp like that is not a good idea. I wish your pup the best of luck. I feel bad for her.


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## shellbeme

summer said:


> Is that a chock collar that you have on your maltese? Its my opinion that sending a maltese to a training camp like that is not a good idea. I wish your pup the best of luck. I feel bad for her.


Choke chain  I hope not.


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## pippersmom

I'm like everyone else....I just couldn't send my dog away for 5 weeks. I have a hard enough time not crying when leaving him at the groomers for one hour. He's not perfect, sometimes he doesn't listen and sometimes he barks but I don't care.


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## Kathleen

I never hear of boarding school for dogs, so I googled.

It looks like the trainer's philosphy is not to reward good behavior, but to use prong collars that pinch the neck as a "correction." I didn't know any trainers did that anymore.:angry:

Maltese are such little delicate tiny dogs. They respond so well to love and praise and positive training.

I am worried for Emme. I hope she will be okay.


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## summer

Kathleen said:


> I never hear of boarding school for dogs, so I googled.
> 
> It looks like the trainer's philosphy is not to reward good behavior, but to use prong collars that pinch the neck as a "correction." I didn't know any trainers did that anymore.:angry:
> 
> Maltese are such little delicate tiny dogs. They respond so well to love and praise and positive training.
> 
> I am worried for Emme. I hope she will be okay.


I am very worried about her too. It doesn't seem fair for her to be put in that situation.


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## Summergirl73

I can't believe that I missed that in the picture. My God, they are so small. Using choke collars should be illegal on them :angry:. Please reconsider the use of such a restraint. They shouldn't even have collars they should be harnessed for safety reasons. You stated that you've done a lot of research, I hope you will now research the dangers of this type of collar. I pray that this is not considered acceptable at the boarding facility.


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## LJSquishy

I am shocked that you would send your dog away somewhere that uses prong collars and shock collars. Maltese have more sensitive tracheas than many other breeds which is why it is recommended to use a harness rather than a collar. They can easily cause a collapsed trachea.

I thought the training program was a great idea until I read that he does not use positive reinforcement methods. I am very worried for your puppy. The training works because they are afraid of the pain and that is no way to treat a pet. That is like using physical punishment for a child as a threat -- it causes fear.

I feel sorry for both of your dogs if you truly find this as an acceptable way to train your pets (not just Maltese but any pet).


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## Grace'sMom

Wow! I just noticed the little choke collar on that puppy!

Your trainer knows nothing!

Maltese are prone to Collapsed Trachea!

Sheesh..... Seriously??? Who needs a choke collar for a tiny Maltese PUPPY? Even an adult Maltese....

Sorry. That is not safe. And you may not see the damage of that collar until they are older.

Sigh.


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## hoaloha

Oh my goodness- I didn't even catch that collar in the pic since the pic is small on my phone . . PLEASE DO NOT USE A NECK COLLAR OF ANY TYPE FOR ANY LEASH CORRECTIONS or even walking in toy breeds like Maltese as they can cause tracheal collapse!!!! 

Prong collars may have a role (still controversial) in LARGE breeds like German shepherd dogs, etc... But NeVER In a toy breed!

A Havanese is very different than a Maltese puppy in terms of size. I am a bit worried for your puppy being so small and young after looking at that trainers site. I am sorry, I just don't support his methods and it puts your dog's health at risk.


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## Furbabies mom

dog trainers
Here is an article about him, at least I think this is the trainer. Forgive me if it's not,


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## eiksaa

Oh poor baby, please don't let the trainer use force on that little thing. It seems so wrong and unnecessary. It is totally possible to have a well behaved dog from just positive training methods. 


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## mysugarbears

I see in the picture that Emme has a chain collar on, like others have said on here you don't walk a little maltese with any type of collar because it could collapse their trachea. I just went and looked at the site and listened to a couple of videos and there is no way in H*LL i would let that wacko train my pet rabbit if i had one let alone my dog or send them off for 5 weeks for training. I just took my girl Kelly to training class and the trainer uses positive reinforcement treats and praise, she trains agility classes and her dogs do go off leash and have excellent recall and she's also a pet behaviorist. This person seems like he trains like Cesar Milan and they both seem to set the dog up for failure instead of setting them up for good behavior. :exploding: I truly feel sorry for Emme.


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## ladodd

I don't understand why anyone would send a tiny maltese off for 5 wks of training. His website says his training addresses tough behavioral issues, I've never heard of or met a maltese with tough behavioral issues. I feel so sorry for this little angel. I'm guessing we will never hear the outcome.


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## pippersmom

We don't send young children away for 5 weeks of forceful training so they will be the perfect obedient child.


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## Summergirl73

Uggh. This thread is beyond depressing. I'm guessing the poster is not going to respond about any of this? I was hoping beyond hope they would reconsider  .


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## Snowbody

Sounds like the Cesar Milan school of outdated punitive training. :angry: There are so many better ways to go. I just don't understand how someone would choose this for a little Maltese. 

My neighbor sent her dog (a terrier) to a trainer/boarder for 8 weeks while she had spinal surgery and recovery. She couldn't take care of the dog and wouldn't burden friends with a dog who had really bad behavioral issues... this dog was from a puppy miller via an agent who said the dog "lived in her house;slept in her bed." BS. The dog was petrified of nearly everything and everyone and bolted in harness. They said they taught her to walk, sit, etc. and brought her to the city each week to get used to noises here and she came back Sunday. I swear, I don't see any difference in her. She's still petrified of every sound and every person but her owner. Total ripoff and very expensive. I think because her mom was incapacitated she didn't have much choice but I could never imagine doing that.


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## Kathleen

Samantha, I am sure it must feel like everyone is attacking you, but we are all just really concerned for little Emme.
When I look at her sweet face in her picture, I just want to cry. I am afraid for her. She is so teeny tiny. Maltese are such delicate little dogs, with small bones and easily damaged discs in their neck. Maltese puppies are even more easily hurt. Our vet has told us not to even use a regular collar for walks, but to always use a harness because one little tug could cause damage to their necks.
I know that you had a good experience with Monolo, but Emme is so small. It looks like the owner of the company is used to working with larger, more agressive dogs, for whom positive training has not worked. He has a few men in their twenties working with him. I am worried that they will hurt Emme by accident, because they are used to dealing with larger, tougher dogs.
Here is an article on a vet website about the injuries that choke collars can cause:
Understanding Dog Training Collar Injuries - VetInfo
Others have mention damage to the trachea, but also neck injury and paralysis. There are permanent injuries.
If you google prong collars there are some really scary looking pictures of the damage that they can do as well.
Would you please please consider trying positive training first? 
Maltese are such loving and happy dogs. All that they want to do is please us. They are so reponsive to clicker training. They are also so attached to us. They desperately need to be with us. It is their "job" as companion dogs.
We are all worried for Emme.


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## summer

Summergirl73 said:


> Uggh. This thread is beyond depressing. I'm guessing the poster is not going to respond about any of this? I was hoping beyond hope they would reconsider  .


I agree, its beyond depressing. I am completely sickened that anyone would send their maltese to a training for five weeks and allow a choke collar to be used on them. :exploding: Also, I see a black box in the picture. Is that a shock collar?  Good heavens, what in the world. I am curious, the pup I believe is 5 months old and gotten from a breeder. Do most breeders have in their contracts any restrictions about their dogs being put in programs like this and restrictions on certain collars? It would be nice if they did.


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## maltese manica

I showed my vet this guys website......... he said there would be no way that he would recommend this to anyone! and the collar that you are using can cause more harm to your little one its better to use a harness! Well its up to you in the end on what you want to do! best of luck!


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## Lacie's Mom

hoaloha said:


> Emme is adorable!!! I hope she has a good experience and I know you will miss her!
> 
> I am also one who would never send my dog to a boarding facility for training away from the owner/parent. why? Because I believe the whole core of training should be based upon the bond and communication between the dog and his/her owner. I'm a firm believer that training is not only based in that bond, but strengthens it exponentially. I think that owners should be responsible for socialization of their puppies and work with trainers if they are not able to train the dog. Most of dog training is about training the owner too!
> 
> That being said, if one is unable for some reason to provide the proper socialization and upbringing for the puppy especially in those crucial developmental period (between 12-16 wks and again another fear period around 6 months), then boarding may be the less ideal way to have the dog socialized. Its far better to have a socialized dog (if that means from elsewhere) than to keep your dog at home and not properly socialize it - which may lead to a fearful, reactive dog who has poor social skills. That is something that you may have to deal with for the dog's life. Many dogs are rehomed or put in shelters
> due to behavioral issues that could be avoided with proper socialization and training early in life.
> I guess boarding, although not ideal, with some highly skilled trainer is better than no training or socialization at all.
> 
> I highly encourage those who read this forum to utilize books, video, Internet to train WITH your dog- it is VeRY REWARDING.


:goodpost:Marisa -- very well said. 

I agree 100% that I would never send one of my fluffs to this facility. This is just not how to train a Maltese. I'm also worried for Emme's safety.


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## manolomom

Thank you for all of your concern. I am glad that you all stand up for what you believe in, but what happens when you don’t have a treat? Clicker? I don’t believe in it for my dogs. Having 3 English Labs, and 2 Maltese, and 1 havanese. I have not hurt one of them by using this method of training. My dogs are apart of my everyday life. I bring them everywhere from nursing homes to cafes. I don’t’ tie them up to a pole or leave them in the car. I can put them in a down stay (which was taught by my trainer) they don’t move. Crazy barking dogs walk by and it doesn’t phase my dogs at all. 

Its sad when dogs are given up because they were not properly trained when they were younger and they end up in a shelter. Shelters dogs are not just your puppy mill dogs and aggressive large breeds. Its people who have the sweet little puppies, that become un-socialized, unbalanced, and reactive barking dogs. They give up on them… my local shelter was filled with 10 small dogs last year. That is a FACT. 

Since many of you are asking:

Yes. That is a prong collar. It’s a training tool; she won’t be using it for the next 15 years, just the next five weeks. It’s the same thing if her mother was to correct her with a bite. Properly used it will not harm my Emme. Would you rather me use a gentle leader so she can walk off balance and damage her spine? Or a red head halter so she can break her neck. These are the things given to students at petco or petsmart. 

No. Emme is not being shocked to sit.That "black box" you see is her collar buckle that is how I bought it. Is prong collar on her all day? NO. Do they yell and scream at dogs? No. She has training, play/socializing/outside, and sleepy time. Is she on a schedule? Yes. Do I get to see my Emme? Yes. Does she get praised for sitting and staying? Yes. Is it with a treat? NO. Will she be shy and timid because here training experience? NO. How do I know? My Manolo. Was any one of my dogs trachea/lungs ruined? NO, because it was used properly. Has Jeff worked with any small dogs? Yes. Has Jeff ever worked with a small Maltese before? YES. Her name was pickles.

Back to me doing my RESEARCH, I have done my research. 

I don’t come on these forums to knock people down or make them feel bad about what they do. I come to learn. I don’t want to shove my views down any ones throat. I see how you raise your dog, and I am showing you how I raise mine. 
I am not the first or last Maltese owner that has ever used a prong collar. 

Thank you all for your concern. Emme has had a busy day of learning. She is not being harmed. I will continue to post pictures/video of her progress.


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## Summergirl73

Please do not misunderstand. We are not trying to "shove our views down your throat". We are trying to protect your dogs neck. I am very sorry that you decided not to research the damage that could be done. If you had, you would see that the danger is fact, not opinion. So will your dog be obedient? Yes, but at what cost? I am so very sorry for your pup.


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## summer

Yes, I am very concerned and will continue to be. I can tell that no matter what anyone says its not going to change your mind. I feel horrible for your dog and I will keep her in my prayers.


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## silverhaven

Wow!!!!!! your little one is a darling. I am truly shocked to see a prong collar on a teeny maltese. There are other ways, a lot more gentle. My Lola used to pull and be pretty bad on a leash. Turning quickly and walking the other way cures it, on a regular harness. It may take a while if they are difficult like she was, but she got there. For training with treats it is the same as your collar idea, you wean them off them, you don't have to keep giving them, only now and again as a re-inforcer. Please reconsider.


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## eiksaa

Treats and clicks are not needed forever. Once a dog is trained you can stop using them. 


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## Grace'sMom

manolomom said:


> Yes. That is a *prong collar*. It’s a training tool; she won’t be using it for the next 15 years, just the next five weeks.


If he was such a good trainer he should be able to train a freaking 3 pound dog WITHOUT a prong or choke collar.

If he was such a good trainer he wouldn't have to use negative correction to get results.

You can train with positive methods WITHOUT treats or clickers.

I'd never do anything to hurt my dogs. It breaks their trust in humans no matter how "well behaved" they are. That is terrible.



:exploding:


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## Zoe's Mom88

Grace'sMom said:


> If he was such a good trainer he should be able to train a freaking 3 pound dog WITHOUT a prong or choke collar.
> 
> If he was such a good trainer he wouldn't have to use negative correction to get results.
> 
> You can train with positive methods WITHOUT treats or clickers.
> 
> I'd never do anything to hurt my dogs. It breaks their trust in humans no matter how "well behaved" they are. That is terrible.
> 
> 
> 
> :exploding:


Very well said Tori. It's very disturbing. :angry:


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## maggieh

Even police K-9 units are moving away from prong/slip ring training and going to positive reinforcement. You may want to search for information on Steve White and the results that he and others are now having training police dogs using positive reinforcement. He does not recommend any sort of boarding type training because it is usually based on fear and punishment, not positive reinforcement.

I hope your puppy is safe and healthy at the end of this experience.


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## kaeco510

You absolutely do not need to use treats/clickers forever! Sadie and I have been working on her commands for only 3 weeks now and she is already doing them with no treats, just verbal praise. She may not be perfect but I enjoy the time we spend training together. It's so rewarding. 

These little fluffs are so eager to please that it seems ridiculous to use negative reinforcement and prong collars. 

Even kids/babies respond better to positive reinforcement than negative reinforcement. There is research to back this up. 


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## LoveLucy

I've been reading this and feeling so sad. I was reluctant to say anything because my Lucy isn't the most well-behaved dog on the face of the earth. But I keep looking at the photo on the original post. What a sweet innocent little unsuspecting thing. 5 weeks will feel like forever to her. And, like others, I wouldn't even use a regular collar on a dog this little. I used a collar on my Gladie, who was about 25 lbs., before I knew better and switched to a harness, and I've always felt that it contributed to her back/neck problems. I would NEVER use any kind of collar for walking a tiny little Malt. But, much like parents who insist that physical punishment is the way to go, I doubt this poster will change her mind.


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## Snowbody

I have never seen a compassionate owner use a prong collar on a Maltese. I read his website where he boasts about not having any formal education in dog training. I also see that he isn't a part of an recognized dog training organization like APDT. His methods scare me, particularly for a small dog. To me, it's analogous to leaving a baby with an abusive adult as a day care provider for five weeks. Yes, a child may do whatever he asked but at what price? I really have no interest in seeing any videos of what is learned this way... it would be painful to me to see it, just like when I saw Cesar Milan kicking a dog into submission. The end doesn't justify the means to me. I wish you well and pray that your little one will be alright for the rest of her life.


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## Bibu

This is apalling! Bibu doesn't always sit on command, barks at me when he wants something or is hungry and chases rabbits freely without being stopped. Now, would I trade his safety/health in to make him my personal robot...HECK NO! I agree training to an extent is necessary for some people because it makes things easier when traveling etc. I also agree special training is necessary for companion or search and rescue animals. What I disagree with is when people see dogs as robots rather than little living companions/soulmates and would trade their health, safety, mental stability, etc. in for 5 weeks to get a robot in exchange. If you want a robot, go buy one and save your dog from irreparable damage.


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## Bibu

P.S. - "A client who hires me when a dog is *8 weeks old* will have a dog that is fully trained at 6 months of age" (Solid K-9 Training).

No dog should be in a boarding facility at 8 weeks of age. They shouldn't even leave their mother's side until at least 12 weeks of age! It's all questionable if you ask me...

Solid K-9 Training. Retrieved from dog trainers


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## Leila'sMommy

Samantha, I don't think anyone is saying anything to make you feel bad, but are just concerned for your baby. You said you come here to learn and everyone is just trying to help you see how dangerous this method of "teaching" is. Originally, I had seen the picture from my phone. Then, when someone said something about a choke collar, I came to look at the picture bigger on the computer and read all the replies. I think you want to do the best for your baby, but I don't think you have learned what that is yet and are just going with what you know and have done in the past. Please keep an open mind about what everyone is trying to tell you. *Please!!!* I had a yorkie whose trachea would collapse and it's a scary thing to watch, not knowing if he was going to be able to breathe again or not. He never even wore a collar or had any other kind of injuries that could cause it. But in using the type of collars mentioned in this thread, you are just asking for it to happen...or worse. Like others have said, treats and clickers are just for the initial training period - not forever. Just as the punishment your guy uses is just for the training. *There are laws against animal cruelty and I think these same laws should also apply to the type of place you're taking your dogs to. It's just downright animal abuse!!* My heart is breaking for what you're about to consciously put that adorable, innocent, unsuspecting, trusting baby through. PLEASE don't do it! Please change your mind! Being away from you for so long is bad enough, but to put him through this torture is just horrible.


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## Leila'sMommy

Also, where do the dogs sleep? Are they left outside on cold concrete or ground in kennels? Are they left loose with other dogs? Is a human around 24/7 to make sure one of the large dogs doesn't kill the tiny dogs? I just went to his website and looked and then started thinking about all of this. He may scare them into submission and call it trained and they may seem well behaved after awhile. But what about when they first get there and haven't been trained? He talks about them getting to play with each other. I've already recently read two different posts about little maltese being scared at training places where the owners were there. I hate to think of what could happen around all these big dogs when their owner's not there to protect them and if the trainers aren't present. It sounds like most of the dogs are big with uncontrollable issues and those don't sound like safe animals to be around a fragile tiny puppy.


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## Aarianne

I'm so sorry that you didn't find the right positive reinforcement trainer or behaviourist for your havanese. There are some great, successful trainers out there that help with exactly what you described in your havanese (sounded like a dog-reactive dog) and they would never resort to using choke collars or corrections or any sort of punishment for that kind of problem.

While your havanese apparently was returned to you without the same reactive problem he previously had, you should consider yourself extremely lucky that your havanese did not come back to you with other obvious problems. 

Sort of an aside--I can imagine how you probably feel with how the thread has gone. I'm sure most of us have made mistakes with our dogs (I know I have!), but have learned to do better. Sometimes the mistakes don't even seem like mistakes at the time, which is the situation you're in I think. Please keep an open mind and try not to take what has been said too personally. I hope you'll consider that there might be something to learn here as there is good reason for these sorts of trainers/camps and choke collars being so unpopular with the SM folks (and many other dog lovers). :thumbsup:


On that note, if you have a little time, please take a look at this trainer's website (just a trainer in Toronto) as I think he breaks down the basics on the types of trainers and training styles out there pretty nicely and links to some important stuff: 

Clicker Training - When Hounds Fly Dog Training

*Make sure you check that link he included from the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior on "How to Choose a Trainer"--actually here it is again so it isn't missed: http://avsabonline.org/uploads/main/How_to_Choose_a_Trainer_%28AVSAB%29.pdf


And here's another page on how this trainer deals with behaviour problems with a couple videos illustrating the difference between the type of training they believe in vs. how how a very popular but undereducated "trainer" deals with a different dog with a similar aversion to grooming: 

Dog Behaviorist Toronto - When Hounds Fly Dog Training

*And there was another excellent link in there to the AVSAB that's broken--here's the correct link to their position statement on the use of punishment for behaviour modification: http://avsabonline.org/uploads/position_statements/Combined_Punishment_Statements.pdf

I hope you find the time to read through those links and then perhaps reconsider your training options and what you think is most appropriate for your dogs--especially with your little malt--who is adorable by the way! :wub:


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## pippersmom

If I'm reading this post right, then little Emme is already at this boarding school. Does that mean she won't even be home for Christmas? I find that really sad.


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## Maglily

I was curious about the hours there, do the dogs live in a trainers home 24/7, is it a facility 9 -5 etc. Is there training of different lengths of time for puppies of different ages? I assume a puppy would go there with no particular issues so how do they determine how long the training will take?


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## WeeGrace

Hey listen I don't want to "shove a view down your throat" but I brought my dog to a puppy class in that class there was a boxer pup who terrorised my daisy. I picked daisy up afterwards and she even wet herself on my knee never in the time I've had daisy has she done this!!! All I want to say is please be careful of bigger dogs our little ones are really fragile I hope Emma is ok please don't think we are accusing you with our reactions we are like this out of love and concern please do keep us updated. I would be worried that you don't see the whole picture from this guy only the bits he wants you to see


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## Maizy Moo's Mum

I think its too late as from what i can see she is already there but i 100% agree with everyone else.

Also if you havent got the time or patience or care to train your dog then im not sure i believe you should even have one in the first place especially a maltese whos nature is so loving to there owner.

I have enjoyed training Maizy so much and there is nothing more rewarding than when she gets it makes me smile so much!!!

Is Maizy perfect...no but she is a well balanced dog....am i perfect definatly not but does any of this matter nope the fact of the matter is we have a bond which i personally feel is far more important. 

I have watched dog trainers on programmes on TV NONE of the ones i have seen have used prong collars and hate them they use positive commands and love and rewards rather than fear and pain! I personally would hate seeing Maizy in this situation but you dont believe you are doing anything wrong so all this amazing info people are giving you is falling on deaf ears.

I pray for Emme's sake that she is ok as she looks like an absolute doll and is the innocent creature in all of this.


----------



## manolomom

Thank you for all of your concern again. 

Please pray for the little fluffy dogs that are in shelters tonight because their owners gave up on them. Why did the give up on them??? Potty Training Issues, Reactive Barking, others Dogs and the list goes on. They will need those lovely thoughts tonight and every night until they find a good home. Let us Pray for those dogs not my Emme. 

Many of you are concerned about where Emme is…Well the only thing I can say if Go on Facebook search for Solid K9 training or go to the website and click on the Facebook logo. There you will learn what Emme is doing. 

I have nothing but LOVE for my dogs.


----------



## summer

I do pray for all the dogs in shelters. 

I will also continue to pray for your dogs. As I said before, I feel horrible for them. I know you had wrote you came here to learn. You got great advise here from animals lovers that love your dog. We care what happens to her. I can tell you, my heart is broken for Emme. No maltese or dog for that matter should be trained like that, in my opinion. I can't imagine why anyone would think its ok to send a four month old puppy or any maltese to be trained with a pronge collar and left at a training for five weeks. Shame on you.


----------



## TLR

Oh poor Emme she's already there with pics of the poor baby on his Facebook page.


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## Grace'sMom

I don't see any dogs as small as Emme on his pages.

I still cannot get over the fact that little tiny dog has a prong collar.

He could train her without that horrible device.

I don't even know how you "pop" a tiny dog in a manner that wouldn't jolt them off their feet they are so light.

I feel so sorry for Emme.

Did her breeder know you were going to put a prong collar and send this baby off to an uneducated "trainer" for 5 weeks???

 I'm so sad for Emme. Even if she comes home "perfectly trained"... I will be sad for her knowing the pain she had to go through to get there....


----------



## eiksaa

manolomom said:


> Thank you for all of your concern again.
> 
> Please pray for the little fluffy dogs that are in shelters tonight because their owners gave up on them. Why did the give up on them??? Potty Training Issues, Reactive Barking, others Dogs and the list goes on. They will need those lovely thoughts tonight and every night until they find a good home. Let us Pray for those dogs not my Emme.


That argument isn't really valid to a bunch of people who have managed to raise their dogs (many dogs in some cases) without choking them everytime they put one step out of line. Not using force is not equal to an out of control dog. 

I can't argue with the fact that you love your dogs. However, you are not raising them _with_ love. If you want to take the shortcut instead of putting in the work, that is your choice of course. If thinking this is the only way makes you sleep better, go for it. But no one here is buying that.


----------



## LoveLucy

I just went to the facebook page. Poor little Emme looks so out of place there! I don't understand what the point is? She's just a puppy--she has some kind of out-of-control behavoral issues? The suggestion is that without this training she would end up in a shelter? I mean, I guess I could maybe see this kind of training for a big dog with aggressive issues, if an owner felt that they were completely out of options. Although, even that kind of dog can be rehabilitated in a kind, positive way (check out Best Friends Animal Sanctuary). However, this little 5 month old fluff ball? How did she end up there? How is she supposed to be compared to dogs that are given up because of behavior issues. I really don't get it.


----------



## Snowbody

Just saw the FB postings by the "trainer." _ This is not a stuffed animal, this is our newest 5 week board and train dog who *came to us without knowing a thing,* and will leave a fully trained dog_ and _With just 10 minutes to grab a quick lunch, *I grab Emme and put her in Place *while I prepare, eat and clean up my meal. Turn every opportunity of your day to make a great training opportunity, your dog is always learning, give them lots of great information and repetition to learn what you want them to do and not what they always want to do._
Kind of makes me ill. Emme didn't know a thing? Really? Within about an hour of getting Tyler he had already learned to sit. Another 5 minutes, lie down. Took on heal by himself. I don't even like the reference to "grabbing Emme" and I feel that trainer really means, Emme's put "in her place." When I get a meal and sit an eat it, my dog doesn't beg or bother me. He just lies under the table or in the room next door. I just didn't give scraps of human food. Gee, didn't take a prong collar to do any of that. I guess we have different ways of loving and teaching our dogs. I'll take Victoria Stillwell any day. To me you can't send away your family.


----------



## silverhaven

I feel sad for you and Emme. He says 12 wks old. How can you send away your little darling at that age for 5 weeks. I just can't imagine it. No bonding, cuddling time, pack her off to rules and regulations instead of comfort and love. She has only just left her mother for heavens sake.


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## CloudClan

manolomom said:


> Thank you for all of your concern again.
> 
> Please pray for the little fluffy dogs that are in shelters tonight because their owners gave up on them. Why did the give up on them??? Potty Training Issues, Reactive Barking, others Dogs and the list goes on. They will need those lovely thoughts tonight and every night until they find a good home. Let us Pray for those dogs not my Emme.
> 
> Many of you are concerned about where Emme is…Well the only thing I can say if Go on Facebook search for Solid K9 training or go to the website and click on the Facebook logo. There you will learn what Emme is doing.
> 
> I have nothing but LOVE for my dogs.


I have wanted to stay out of this thread, mostly because I feel the wonderful caring folks of the SM community have said everything I might wish to say in a more eloquent way than I felt I could. 

However, while I understand your defensiveness in reaction to the criticism you have received, I have to point out that it is those people who believe a pet does not require an investment of their time and their attention that cause many of these owner turn-ins to shelters and rescues. It is not the dogs and the behaviors themselves. It is the owners who do not take responsibility for them. Now, you see yourself as taking responsibility here by sending your little one off to "camp" and spending a small fortune to do so, but it seems to me, that you expect to get back a perfectly socialized creature without the investment of your own time. What if she comes back and is not "perfect"? Will you take the time to train her yourself? Will you give up on her and send her to a shelter or a rescue? 

I ask this because when I was a foster mom, I was the third home of a dog who went to a camp just like the one that you have sent your dog to. The dog, Chloe, went as a baby puppy. She was trained, with methods like your trainer describes. She was videoed and when she was turned over to me in rescue, the owners said to me, look at how good she was in the video. I never could get her to do that at home. Well, there was a reason for that. The owner did not do the work herself. I re-homed this young Maltese with a family that believed in positive training. She had issues as a result of her first year of life with owners who had failed her. But her new owner took her and tried to work through those issues. She trained her to do tricks and to become a therapy dog. The work her new owner did never was able to fully overcome some of the fears the dog had from the scarring experiences of her early life, but putting in the time to train her themselves they had a lovely well socialized little dog. 

Sending your dog off to a training camp is not about building the bond of a relationship. It is about expecting someone else to "create" the perfect dog. In this case, you have chosen one whose methods are not supported by the experts in the field of veterinary behavior. If you read the position statements of the professional organization of animal behavior experts you will see that your trainers methods are contrary to the current recommendations: Position Statements & Handouts (for the public) | AVSAB

I did visit the FB page of this individual and I found myself very disturbed. The type of attitude this individual has toward training is very archaic. As someone who has invested a great deal of time and training into my own dogs, I find it a shame that you will never get to experience the bond created when you work on training your own dog in a positive and loving way. My dogs are not perfect. But they have done therapy work, earned obedience titles and along the way, I learned that I am the one who really needed the training. Training between an animal and an owner is about establishing communication and trust between them. 

You may get lucky, despite being trained by someone who clearly does not understand the literature on canine behavioral science, whose methods are questionable at best, your little girl may not be harmed by this experience. It seems you got lucky the first time around with your Havanese, but in both cases you will have lost out. You will have lost out on the bonding time that should be part of any training program.


----------



## LoveLucy

Carina--I don't think anybody could have been more eloquent than that.


----------



## SammieMom

This is so awful. Some will do whatever to get a dog to OBEY. I wouldn't want to see any updates on this baby. :crying: 

this guy is just a show off, big deal --so he's putting a tiny Maltese in her place!! What?? Try just never giving her food scraps. Dah!!!

God, watch over this baby!!


----------



## hoaloha

CloudClan said:


> I have wanted to stay out of this thread, mostly because I feel the wonderful caring folks of the SM community have said everything I might wish to say in a more eloquent way than I felt I could.
> 
> However, while I understand your defensiveness in reaction to the criticism you have received, I have to point out that it is those people who believe a pet does not require an investment of their time and their attention that cause many of these owner turn-ins to shelters and rescues. It is not the dogs and the behaviors themselves. It is the owners who do not take responsibility for them. Now, you see yourself as taking responsibility here by sending your little one off to "camp" and spending a small fortune to do so, but it seems to me, that you expect to get back a perfectly socialized creature without the investment of your own time. What if she comes back and is not "perfect"? Will you take the time to train her yourself? Will you give up on her and send her to a shelter or a rescue?
> 
> I ask this because when I was a foster mom, I was the third home of a dog who went to a camp just like the one that you have sent your dog to. The dog, Chloe, went as a baby puppy. She was trained, with methods like your trainer describes. She was videoed and when she was turned over to me in rescue, the owners said to me, look at how good she was in the video. I never could get her to do that at home. Well, there was a reason for that. The owner did not do the work herself. I re-homed this young Maltese with a family that believed in positive training. She had issues as a result of her first year of life with owners who had failed her. But her new owner took her and tried to work through those issues. She trained her to do tricks and to become a therapy dog. The work her new owner did never was able to fully overcome some of the fears the dog had from the scarring experiences of her early life, but putting in the time to train her themselves they had a lovely well socialized little dog.
> 
> Sending your dog off to a training camp is not about building the bond of a relationship. It is about expecting someone else to "create" the perfect dog. In this case, you have chosen one whose methods are not supported by the experts in the field of veterinary behavior. If you read the position statements of the professional organization of animal behavior experts you will see that your trainers methods are contrary to the current recommendations: Position Statements & Handouts (for the public) | AVSAB
> 
> I did visit the FB page of this individual and I found myself very disturbed. The type of attitude this individual has toward training is very archaic. As someone who has invested a great deal of time and training into my own dogs, I find it a shame that you will never get to experience the bond created when you work on training your own dog in a positive and loving way. My dogs are not perfect. But they have done therapy work, earned obedience titles and along the way, I learned that I am the one who really needed the training. Training between an animal and an owner is about establishing communication and trust between them.
> 
> You may get lucky, despite being trained by someone who clearly does not understand the literature on canine behavioral science, whose methods are questionable at best, your little girl may not be harmed by this experience. It seems you got lucky the first time around with your Havanese, but in both cases you will have lost out. You will have lost out on the bonding time that should be part of any training program.


Great post, Carina!

If you don't believe US about the dangers of toy breeds and prong collars due to the risk of tracheal collapse (which may not manifest until later in life), please talk to your VET. (or even do a web search).

You should be the one training your own dog and socializing her. Will the trainer also be bathing her frequently and brushing her daily, playing with her feet and brushing her teeth?!?! These are things that YOU as her owner should be introducing very early on.

And, by the way, I bet I could train a puppy with positive reinforcement in five or less weeks too. He's not doing anything Magical so I don't know why he boasts about 5 weeks. That's a heck of a long time. I just don't think his methods are the best way for a Maltese. I hope that Emme gets lucky and does not get injured or fearful from this experience. I am very open minded but NOT when the trainer does not know medical risks specific to the Maltese breed.


----------



## Lynzodolly

This is bloody nuts just looked at this guys Facebook page and it's for big bulky wild boisterous dogs not a tiny teeny puppy for christ sakes give her ove here il have her .. My boys in the hospital and I'm missing him after 4 days never mind 5 weekss how bloody stupid can you get ? And lose the collar it's not a Rottweiler !!  boooo shame on you


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## Summergirl73

May the poster have ears to hear and a heart open to growth. I believe if ego were removed from this situation than true growth could happen. Sadly at this point I fear that Emme will be the one to suffer because of such foolishness. Pathetic.


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## Lynzodolly

Bridget so true xx


----------



## TLR

CloudClan said:


> I have wanted to stay out of this thread, mostly because I feel the wonderful caring folks of the SM community have said everything I might wish to say in a more eloquent way than I felt I could.
> 
> However, while I understand your defensiveness in reaction to the criticism you have received, I have to point out that it is those people who believe a pet does not require an investment of their time and their attention that cause many of these owner turn-ins to shelters and rescues. It is not the dogs and the behaviors themselves. It is the owners who do not take responsibility for them. Now, you see yourself as taking responsibility here by sending your little one off to "camp" and spending a small fortune to do so, but it seems to me, that you expect to get back a perfectly socialized creature without the investment of your own time. What if she comes back and is not "perfect"? Will you take the time to train her yourself? Will you give up on her and send her to a shelter or a rescue?
> 
> I ask this because when I was a foster mom, I was the third home of a dog who went to a camp just like the one that you have sent your dog to. The dog, Chloe, went as a baby puppy. She was trained, with methods like your trainer describes. She was videoed and when she was turned over to me in rescue, the owners said to me, look at how good she was in the video. I never could get her to do that at home. Well, there was a reason for that. The owner did not do the work herself. I re-homed this young Maltese with a family that believed in positive training. She had issues as a result of her first year of life with owners who had failed her. But her new owner took her and tried to work through those issues. She trained her to do tricks and to become a therapy dog. The work her new owner did never was able to fully overcome some of the fears the dog had from the scarring experiences of her early life, but putting in the time to train her themselves they had a lovely well socialized little dog.
> 
> Sending your dog off to a training camp is not about building the bond of a relationship. It is about expecting someone else to "create" the perfect dog. In this case, you have chosen one whose methods are not supported by the experts in the field of veterinary behavior. If you read the position statements of the professional organization of animal behavior experts you will see that your trainers methods are contrary to the current recommendations: Position Statements & Handouts (for the public) | AVSAB
> 
> I did visit the FB page of this individual and I found myself very disturbed. The type of attitude this individual has toward training is very archaic. As someone who has invested a great deal of time and training into my own dogs, I find it a shame that you will never get to experience the bond created when you work on training your own dog in a positive and loving way. My dogs are not perfect. But they have done therapy work, earned obedience titles and along the way, I learned that I am the one who really needed the training. Training between an animal and an owner is about establishing communication and trust between them.
> 
> You may get lucky, despite being trained by someone who clearly does not understand the literature on canine behavioral science, whose methods are questionable at best, your little girl may not be harmed by this experience. It seems you got lucky the first time around with your Havanese, but in both cases you will have lost out. You will have lost out on the bonding time that should be part of any training program.


Couldn't agree more.


----------



## SammieMom

Boarding School, should been BOOT CAMP ANYONE? :angry:


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## Lynzodolly

Kandis !! You said it !!!


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## SammieMom

I just keep seeing my Vet & Breeders faces if I said I wanted to enroll Penny or Sammie in a 5 week boot camp for mostly big problem dogs. :w00t: 

It's too unbelievable to me someone would do this. There is nothing to correct yet for gods sakes. And she may end up with more fears from this experience alone. I saw 2 labs attack Sammie as a puppy so I know how fast these untrained dogs are with tiny white dogs. But at this point, I just hope the OP did research about the needs of a Maltese PUPPY --- so this guy will provide lots of water, right kind and amount of food to avoid hypoglycemia.


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## Lynzodolly

Yes kandis I know what you mean bloody crackers in my point of view ... I posted an update on alberts illness xx


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## Leila'sMommy

I just can't help coming back to this post. It stays on my mind so much! In addition to what I've already voiced my opinion about, I also keep wondering other things about her care. Is she getting the right kind of food & water? Is her hair being kept brushed and clean? Is anyone washing her little face? I just keep imagining that this guy is used to big, dark colored dogs and may not think of those things or just think of them as a luxury. I hope she doesn't come home all matted and tear stained in addition to my praying that she does come home and nothing horrible has happened to her.


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## maltese manica

When you go on to a forum with a statement or a question people will voice their opinion! so these are our opinions. what you do with it, is up to you in the end.


----------



## pippersmom

hoaloha said:


> Great post, Carina!
> 
> If you don't believe US about the dangers of toy breeds and prong collars due to the risk of tracheal collapse (which may not manifest until later in life), please talk to your VET. (or even do a web search).
> 
> You should be the one training your own dog and socializing her. Will the trainer also be bathing her frequently and brushing her daily, playing with her feet and brushing her teeth?!?! These are things that YOU as her owner should be introducing very early on.
> 
> And, by the way, I bet I could train a puppy with positive reinforcement in five or less weeks too. He's not doing anything Magical so I don't know why he boasts about 5 weeks. That's a heck of a long time. I just don't think his methods are the best way for a Maltese. I hope that Emme gets lucky and does not get injured or fearful from this experience. I am very open minded but NOT when the trainer does not know medical risks specific to the Maltese breed.



Marisa really could train a puppy in 5 weeks with POSITIVE training Have you watched her videos of Obi. He is absolutely amazing!!!!!!! It just makes me cry thinking of what poor little Emme is going thru. It breaks me heart.


----------



## maggieh

CloudClan said:


> I have wanted to stay out of this thread, mostly because I feel the wonderful caring folks of the SM community have said everything I might wish to say in a more eloquent way than I felt I could.
> 
> However, while I understand your defensiveness in reaction to the criticism you have received, I have to point out that it is those people who believe a pet does not require an investment of their time and their attention that cause many of these owner turn-ins to shelters and rescues. It is not the dogs and the behaviors themselves. It is the owners who do not take responsibility for them. Now, you see yourself as taking responsibility here by sending your little one off to "camp" and spending a small fortune to do so, but it seems to me, that you expect to get back a perfectly socialized creature without the investment of your own time. What if she comes back and is not "perfect"? Will you take the time to train her yourself? Will you give up on her and send her to a shelter or a rescue?
> 
> I ask this because when I was a foster mom, I was the third home of a dog who went to a camp just like the one that you have sent your dog to. The dog, Chloe, went as a baby puppy. She was trained, with methods like your trainer describes. She was videoed and when she was turned over to me in rescue, the owners said to me, look at how good she was in the video. I never could get her to do that at home. Well, there was a reason for that. The owner did not do the work herself. I re-homed this young Maltese with a family that believed in positive training. She had issues as a result of her first year of life with owners who had failed her. But her new owner took her and tried to work through those issues. She trained her to do tricks and to become a therapy dog. The work her new owner did never was able to fully overcome some of the fears the dog had from the scarring experiences of her early life, but putting in the time to train her themselves they had a lovely well socialized little dog.
> 
> Sending your dog off to a training camp is not about building the bond of a relationship. It is about expecting someone else to "create" the perfect dog. In this case, you have chosen one whose methods are not supported by the experts in the field of veterinary behavior. If you read the position statements of the professional organization of animal behavior experts you will see that your trainers methods are contrary to the current recommendations: Position Statements & Handouts (for the public) | AVSAB
> 
> I did visit the FB page of this individual and I found myself very disturbed. The type of attitude this individual has toward training is very archaic. As someone who has invested a great deal of time and training into my own dogs, I find it a shame that you will never get to experience the bond created when you work on training your own dog in a positive and loving way. My dogs are not perfect. But they have done therapy work, earned obedience titles and along the way, I learned that I am the one who really needed the training. Training between an animal and an owner is about establishing communication and trust between them.
> 
> You may get lucky, despite being trained by someone who clearly does not understand the literature on canine behavioral science, whose methods are questionable at best, your little girl may not be harmed by this experience. It seems you got lucky the first time around with your Havanese, but in both cases you will have lost out. You will have lost out on the bonding time that should be part of any training program.


Carina, that is beautifully said!

Tessa earned her Canine Good Citizen over a period of almost a year through positive reinforcement. Is she perfect? Absolutely not, but in part because I do not work with her as much as I should to maintain her training. I also would never want to use any punishment (prongs or chokers included) on her because her spirit is so wonderful, I wouldn't want to break it!

I do hope the OP is open to learning because as Carina said, these training methods are almost never used any more.


----------



## LoveLucy

Summergirl73 said:


> May the poster have ears to hear and a heart open to growth. I believe if ego were removed from this situation than true growth could happen. Sadly at this point I fear that Emme will be the one to suffer because of such foolishness. Pathetic.


Exactly. I think ego is running rampant here. Both that of the poster and this trainer.


----------



## Grace'sMom

Leila'sMommy said:


> I just can't help coming back to this post. It stays on my mind so much! In addition to what I've already voiced my opinion about, I also keep wondering other things about her care. Is she getting the right kind of food & water? Is her hair being kept brushed and clean? Is anyone washing her little face? I just keep imagining that this guy is used to big, dark colored dogs and may not think of those things or just think of them as a luxury. I hope she doesn't come home all matted and tear stained in addition to my praying that she does come home and nothing horrible has happened to her.


I worry about this too... But not so much grooming as general health. A maltese puppy at this age is much more fragile than a large breed ..or even a small breed. This is a toy breed...totally different class.

I worry she is cold  

I worry she isn't being fed often enough

Or that.... she's being left alone for long periods as a training method.

This owner and trainer don't know anything about the breed. Maltese are, by nature, people pleasers. They are the very definition of a companion dog.

Carina, your post was beautiful...and I'm so sad that Emme will not get a trusting bond with anyone  

Grace is not perfect.... Gus is kind of freakishly perfect LOL But Grace is not perfect by any means. She at times frustrates me....

HOWEVER.... There is just something no words can describe about the moment that I see in her little eyes that she "gets" something new we are working on. Just that flicker of happiness like, "I got it Mom!" .... I would never want to miss that.... because in that moment we grow closer. And if someone else did that, I'd never have Grace's trust and that connection.

And learning should be fun. Sure we get annoyed sometimes....but it's just like children. Would you send your child off to a boarding school to be physically punished and terrorized into learning?

Sigh.





pippersmom said:


> Marisa really could train a puppy in 5 weeks with POSITIVE training Have you watched her videos of Obi. He is absolutely amazing!!!!!!! It just makes me cry thinking of what poor little Emme is going thru. It breaks me heart.



Yes! Obi is awesome 

Many well trained fluffs on this site! And all of them using positive methods.

No they aren't perfect but they are very well trained and full of so much happiness. In the videos of those little ones they look so happy and excited to be doing things they are asked


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## Grace'sMom

And another thought just landed in my head 

She is only 12 weeks. No where NEAR fully vaccinated.

Sigh.

The "trainer" didn't even answer one comment about questioning the choke collar on her. Just ignored it.


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## SammieMom

So young and tiny at 12 weeks!! I can't but help think this is case of dumping the initial training/house breaking onto someone else. I guess not all owners feel the need to experience the initial owner/pet bonding period that is so special and will be lost when Emme returns home.


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## pippersmom

If Emme is only 12 weeks, then how long has the owner even had her. Little Emme will think this trainer is her new Mommy and that her new life will be spent "training" instead of just being loved. She must wonder why she was "dumped" here. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I feel that its kind of like sending her off for someone else to do the training you can't be bothered with.


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## LoveLucy

Is she only 12 weeks??? For some reason I thought she was 5 months, but maybe I was seeing the "5 week training." For those of you who have had Malt puppies--does she look like 12 weeks? If she's really only 12 weeks old...well...I have no words. Just a horrible feeling in my chest.  I think it's my heart breaking for the little thing.


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## SammieMom

If any of the Rep Breeders I know saw that photo only of Emme they would demand she be returned. The byb's I knew could care less.


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## SammieMom

He takes them as early as 8 WEEKS old.....yikes...Emme is YOUNG, not 5 mo old IMO from that picture. She didn't wait for the bad behaviors to develop with this one. if she is not from a rep show breeder, most are bought at 8 weeks old or sooner.


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## SammieMom

Snowbody said:


> Just saw the FB postings by the "trainer." _ This is not a stuffed animal, this is our newest 5 week board and train dog who *came to us without knowing a thing,* and will leave a fully trained dog_ and _With just 10 minutes to grab a quick lunch, *I grab Emme and put her in Place *while I prepare, eat and clean up my meal. Turn every opportunity of your day to make a great training opportunity, your dog is always learning, give them lots of great information and repetition to learn what you want them to do and not what they always want to do._
> Kind of makes me ill. Emme didn't know a thing? Really? Within about an hour of getting Tyler he had already learned to sit. Another 5 minutes, lie down. Took on heal by himself. I don't even like the reference to "grabbing Emme" and I feel that trainer really means, Emme's put "in her place." When I get a meal and sit an eat it, my dog doesn't beg or bother me. He just lies under the table or in the room next door. I just didn't give scraps of human food. Gee, didn't take a prong collar to do any of that. I guess we have different ways of loving and teaching our dogs. I'll take Victoria Stillwell any day. To me you can't send away your family.


Good Post! Thanks for posting what he said on FB. Shoot, on day one, I taught penny to sit/lay down with cheerios in 5 minutes. :thumbsup: I guess he thinks all small dogs beg for food too. Mine have never begged. Sammie has his fear issues with big dogs from being snatched as a puppy but he is so much better now, I saw it on trip to HH.

I guess I better move on.....


----------



## summer

I can see that pleading with this owner isn't going to help this poor dog.


----------



## SammieMom

LoveLucy said:


> Is she only 12 weeks??? For some reason I thought she was 5 months, but maybe I was seeing the "5 week training." For those of you who have had Malt puppies--does she look like 12 weeks? If she's really only 12 weeks old...well...I have no words. Just a horrible feeling in my chest.  I think it's my heart breaking for the little thing.


She looks younger than 5 mo to me. Be just as traumatic at any age for a Maltese (or any dog) in this type of training facility. All is gained by 5 weeks with a prong collar and fear, not positive reward.


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## silverhaven

He does state on FB that she is 12 weeks...


----------



## summer

Bibu said:


> This is apalling! Bibu doesn't always sit on command, barks at me when he wants something or is hungry and chases rabbits freely without being stopped. Now, would I trade his safety/health in to make him my personal robot...HECK NO! I agree training to an extent is necessary for some people because it makes things easier when traveling etc. I also agree special training is necessary for companion or search and rescue animals. What I disagree with is when people see dogs as robots rather than little living companions/soulmates and would trade their health, safety, mental stability, etc. in for 5 weeks to get a robot in exchange. If you want a robot, go buy one and save your dog from irreparable damage.


Very well said. Thank you.


----------



## CloudClan

silverhaven said:


> He does state on FB that she is 12 weeks...


Yes, and looking him up, his professional qualifications seem non-existent. He was a lingerie salesman before he became a dog trainer. The article where I found that information talks about how his new business is more profitable for him. I went to his website to look for any actual training he himself engaged in before he became a dog trainer and the best I could find was that he was mentored by someone as similarly without qualifications. 

Other disturbing elements found in this search: He posted a picture of dogs roaming near a busy highway unleashed and claims they can do this because he has trained them so perfectly they will always follow recall. 

He posts pictures of a dog that he says is one of the most human aggressive dogs he has ever worked with being hugged by his small child. (If he is willing to put his own child in such danger, what would he do with a small Maltese.)

Another thing about the pictures he posts of the dogs, their body postures look stressed and/or anxious. These dogs do not look like they are enjoying the experience. 

It hurts my heart to thing of a 12 week old Maltese puppy (or really one of any breed) going to a facility like this. I wonder if the breeder was told this would happen. 

Puppies have short attention spans, like children. They should be trained with play and fun. If you look at how service dogs are trained, they are first placed with families for love and socialization and "basic" training. Most will never have intensive all day training until they are at least six months old, some not for another year after that.


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## Leila'sMommy

CloudClan said:


> Yes, and looking him up, his professional qualifications seem non-existent. He was a lingerie salesman before he became a dog trainer. The article where I found that information talks about how his new business is more profitable for him. I went to his website to look for any actual training he himself engaged in before he became a dog trainer and the best I could find was that he was mentored by someone as similarly without qualifications.
> 
> Other disturbing elements found in this search: He posted a picture of dogs roaming near a busy highway unleashed and claims they can do this because he has trained them so perfectly they will always follow recall.
> 
> He posts pictures of a dog that he says is one of the most human aggressive dogs he has ever worked with being hugged by his small child. (If he is willing to put his own child in such danger, what would he do with a small Maltese.)
> 
> Another thing about the pictures he posts of the dogs, their body postures look stressed and/or anxious. These dogs do not look like they are enjoying the experience.
> 
> It hurts my heart to thing of a 12 week old Maltese puppy (or really one of any breed) going to a facility like this. I wonder if the breeder was told this would happen.
> 
> Puppies have short attention spans, like children. They should be trained with play and fun. If you look at how service dogs are trained, they are first placed with families for love and socialization and "basic" training. Most will never have intensive all day training until they are at least six months old, some not for another year after that.


I saw all of those things too and am just so sickened. Did you see the videos of them on the treadmills? If I understood correctly, this is in addition to walking them 45 minutes each time three times a day, plus swimming. He likes to wear them down so they don't have any energy left! I don't think Maltese should walk 45 minutes at one time even once a day. And is he even using sunscreen on Emme when he has her outside? This guy is a cruel nut case who abuses animals and gets a kick out of it. He even says on Facebook something about to the ones who don't like it go away. He needs to be shut down!!!


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## SammieMom

Thank Carina for posting his info. Hopefully this thread will STOP other owners trying to find a way around PUPPY TRAINING. I worry this puppy proves to be a bother for this man. All the needs they have at this age. I pray this puppy makes it home safely. The COLLAR and other dogs are my big fears. Penny snorts if her harness pulls. This guy is just another CESAR wannabe!! Gosh I just wish Emme Mom would go get her out from this situation.


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## summer

CloudClan said:


> Yes, and looking him up, his professional qualifications seem non-existent. He was a lingerie salesman before he became a dog trainer. The article where I found that information talks about how his new business is more profitable for him. I went to his website to look for any actual training he himself engaged in before he became a dog trainer and the best I could find was that he was mentored by someone as similarly without qualifications.
> 
> Other disturbing elements found in this search: He posted a picture of dogs roaming near a busy highway unleashed and claims they can do this because he has trained them so perfectly they will always follow recall.
> 
> He posts pictures of a dog that he says is one of the most human aggressive dogs he has ever worked with being hugged by his small child. (If he is willing to put his own child in such danger, what would he do with a small Maltese.)
> 
> Another thing about the pictures he posts of the dogs, their body postures look stressed and/or anxious. These dogs do not look like they are enjoying the experience.
> 
> It hurts my heart to thing of a 12 week old Maltese puppy (or really one of any breed) going to a facility like this. I wonder if the breeder was told this would happen.
> 
> Puppies have short attention spans, like children. They should be trained with play and fun. If you look at how service dogs are trained, they are first placed with families for love and socialization and "basic" training. Most will never have intensive all day training until they are at least six months old, some not for another year after that.


Good post. I also noticed the dogs look stressed and or anxious in my opinion. Not a good way to live as far as I'm concerned. Dogs deserve to be happy. I was wondering about the breeder as well. According to one of the firsts posts here by the poster the baby was born 8/18/2012.


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## Orla

This is so upsetting 
Poor Emme  

I just do not understand why anyone would send a 12 week old puppy away for 5 weeks to be trained - even if the trainer was a great one. Surely you just got her and you send her away?


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## summer

Leila'sMommy said:


> I saw all of those things too and am just so sickened. Did you see the videos of them on the treadmills? If I understood correctly, this is in addition to walking them 45 minutes each time three times a day, plus swimming. He likes to wear them down so they don't have any energy left! I don't think Maltese should walk 45 minutes at one time even once a day. And is he even using sunscreen on Emme when he has her outside? This guy is a cruel nut case who abuses animals and gets a kick out of it. He even says on Facebook something about to the ones who don't like it go away. He needs to be shut down!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Outrageous. What can be done about it?


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## SammieMom

Samantha-I was wondering how you are so sure Manola LOVED going away to this camp, since dogs don't talk.


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## Grace'sMom

Do any of you who are breeders or do showings know of the breeders in RI?

Maybe if you do, contact them and ask them to look at Emme...see if she is theirs. This little girl needs rescued 

I try to stay away from this tread but it just breaks my heart.

Here Grace and Gus are going to get cupcakes today for their birthdays.... and for Christmas I have all their presents wrapped and ready to go.... And poor Emme is going to be at boot camp getting her neck pinched and jerked.


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## summer

Grace'sMom said:


> Do any of you who are breeders or do showings know of the breeders in RI?
> 
> Maybe if you do, contact them and ask them to look at Emme...see if she is theirs. This little girl needs rescued
> 
> I try to stay away from this tread but it just breaks my heart.
> 
> Here Grace and Gus are going to get cupcakes today for their birthdays.... and for Christmas I have all their presents wrapped and ready to go.... And poor Emme is going to be at boot camp getting her neck pinched and jerked.


Do you think the people involved in rescue would know if something could be done to help her?


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## babycake7

She looks so precious and prim! I hope the 5 weeks will fly by for you and her.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

Grace'sMom said:


> Do any of you who are breeders or do showings know of the breeders in RI?
> 
> Maybe if you do, contact them and ask them to look at Emme...see if she is theirs. This little girl needs rescued
> I
> I try to stay away from this tread but it just breaks my heart.
> 
> Here Grace and Gus are going to get cupcakes today for their birthdays.... and for Christmas I have all their presents wrapped and ready to go.... And poor Emme is going to be at boot camp getting her neck pinched and jerked.


I was going keep mum on this one ... but, IF breeders truly care about what is happening to this little one ... then, I would so respect each and every one of our breeders (and, rescue workers) for speaking up ... just like Carina has done. I think it is so important to receive feedback from our professional breeders and rescue workers. In my eyes, staying silent on something like this ... seems to send a message that one thinks it is okay for what is happening to this helpless Maltese. Thank you, Carina, for stepping up to the plate.

All of our SM members here have given such thoughtful and honest feedback. My heart goes out to precious innocent Emme. I pray it is just my bad eyesight ... but, it looks to me like her little face and paws need to be washed. And, what about her teeth being cleaned every day ... is that being done? What is she being fed ... nutritious food? Gosh, she's not even spayed ... too young unless I have the dates wrong ... I don't even want to think what could happen to her in that regard. Can one view these poor dogs on camera twenty/four seven ... to see exactly what is happening? I have so many questions. 

But, one thing I know for sure ... this guy needs to put out of business. It just a big money making deal for him. 

I would never ever send my Snowball away to a place like that. It's OUR responsibility, when needed, to work together, with a reputable and certified trainer or behaviorist, with any issues that our precious fluffs might be having.


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## Maglily

Snowbody said:


> Just saw the FB postings by the "trainer." _This is not a stuffed animal, this is our newest 5 week board and train dog who *came to us without knowing a thing,* and will leave a fully trained dog_ and _With just 10 minutes to grab a quick lunch, *I grab Emme and put her in Place *while I prepare, eat and clean up my meal. Turn every opportunity of your day to make a great training opportunity, your dog is always learning, give them lots of great information and repetition to learn what you want them to do and not what they always want to do._
> Kind of makes me ill. Emme didn't know a thing? Really? Within about an hour of getting Tyler he had already learned to sit. Another 5 minutes, lie down. Took on heal by himself. I don't even like the reference to "grabbing Emme" and I feel that trainer really means, Emme's put "in her place." When I get a meal and sit an eat it, my dog doesn't beg or bother me. He just lies under the table or in the room next door. I just didn't give scraps of human food. Gee, didn't take a prong collar to do any of that. I guess we have different ways of loving and teaching our dogs. I'll take Victoria Stillwell any day. To me you can't send away your family.


 
I taught Jodi to sit, paw etc, in less than 15 minutes too. If Jodi is watching me eat I say, "no baby" and he walks away. I don't have experience in training either. Maybe I have a very obedient dog but I didn't use negative reinforcement to make him listen. I agree, he learned that 'no' along with not getting any table food, meant he wasn't getting any food. I guess he's smart at math and put 2 and 2 together.


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## bellaratamaltese

I have already posted on a Maltese exhibitor list asking if this was someone's puppy they had placed. Just very sad. Comments have been made on the fb pics but they are deleted just as quickly


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## Grace'sMom

Thank you Stacy.

I hope if this is someone's baby they take action.


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## Ladysmom

bellaratamaltese said:


> I have already posted on a Maltese exhibitor list asking if this was someone's puppy they had placed. Just very sad. Comments have been made on the fb pics but they are deleted just as quickly


Thank you, Stacy. I have stayed out of this thread because everything I would say has already been said, but I kept thinking no reputable breeder would allow this to happen to her puppy.


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## mysugarbears

bellaratamaltese said:


> I have already posted on a Maltese exhibitor list asking if this was someone's puppy they had placed. Just very sad. Comments have been made on the fb pics but they are deleted just as quickly



Thank you Stacy. 

My heart is just breaking for this little baby. :crying 2:


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## summer

Do any of you do Facebook? I don't have experience with it, but I am wondering if it would be a good way to get this dog some help. Maybe by passing the information to the rescues. I feel very sad for this maltese.


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## WeeGrace

This is so sad like many I stay away but cannot believe the puppy is only 12 weeks how on earth could she leave a pup at 12 weeks surely she has just got her puppy!!!i panicked about what happened to daisy breaks my heart thinkin of this little one. Carina you have said some wise things on here. I hope emme will be ok.


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## Summergirl73

Interesting questions. One more ~ are there regulatory agencies that oversee such trainers and credentials?


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## Sylie

I have not posted to this thread, because I would be banned from SM if I expressed how I feel. I have blocked posts from the OP, because I fear I will loose control. This is perhaps the most horrible thread I have seen on this board. Why on earth would a person who believes strongly in fear and punishment training even join a forum called *Spoiled* Maltese?

I wish there were a Maltese Protective Service Agency we could call.


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## silverhaven

Thank you Carina and Stacy. Good to hear a breeders perspective and getting involved. ) 
I am not surprised he is deleting the FB messages, I am sure that they would not have been pleasant, and not shown his facility in good light. So many things wrong with this situation. Tooo long on a treadmill, too rigid, too domineering. Too many dogs and people around to truly pay proper attention. It is all just so wrong. :angry:

I am sure that both the OP and the "trainer"!!! got a lot more than they bargained for with this thread.


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## maltese manica

my mom showed her friend that breeds and shows newfoundland dogs the facebook on the whack job............... we are trying to see if we can spread word around!!!! this post made my mother sick!


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## Lmojeda

What is his FB?


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## Leila'sMommy

Lmojeda said:


> What is his FB?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Solid K9 Training. You need to see his videos on YouTube too. But I could only watch the first one & one on treadmills, then couldn't stomach any more after thinking about how those dogs must feel. Sure, they may LOOK calm and normal, but think about what the collars are doing to them and how exhausted he's made them to get them that way. . 


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## maltese manica

its so sick and this feak has a radio show


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## summer

Sylie said:


> I have not posted to this thread, because I would be banned from SM if I expressed how I feel. I have blocked posts from the OP, because I fear I will loose control. This is perhaps the most horrible thread I have seen on this board. Why on earth would a person who believes strongly in fear and punishment training even join a forum called *Spoiled* Maltese?
> 
> I wish there were a Maltese Protective Service Agency we could call.


I completely agree with you. Trust me, I have held back on everything I would like to say. There may not be maltese protective service agency, but there are groups that do look out for the welfare of animals. Maybe if we can get the word out on what's happening someone will know exactly what can be done.


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## maltese manica

could we not go to our local animal shelter to complain about this guy????


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## Leila'sMommy

I had not heard of prong collars prior to this thread and at first, just assumed they were the kind you see that are leather with the prongs sticking out. Like you see in a cartoon of a bulldog or something. Then, I as I read, I realized the collars used must have prongs on the inside against the dogs neck. So, I googled it and I came across this site that has pictures of what the collars do just to the outside of the neck. It doesn't show what it looks like to have the internal bleeding or other injuries these collars can cause.
Assistance Dog Aware: Prong collars - NO

I also googled about his school, looking for something HE hasn't put on the internet. Boy, he's got a lot of stuff going on and has to be so busy, he doesn't really have time for the training he claims he is personally doing. He probably has the young guys and his little kids doing most of it. Plus, with his radio show, staying on facebook, going on interviews, people's houses, etc. I just don't know where he'd find the time to be home with the dogs. Anyway, I found this news interview with another trainer about his methods.
I-Team: Use of prong collars in dog training | Turn to 10

Are there any members on SM from Rhode Island? Maybe we should see if there's anything they know to do about this program or how to get something started to have him shut down. And I'd love to see him thrown in jail for animal cruelty!


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## summer

I would like to know, why someone would have their dog trained like that after doing the research. :angry:


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## Sylie

I looked at his facebook page and had to run to the bathroom to throw up. The worst monsters in the world just love to post pictures of their children. If he believes in using prong collars on dogs, what do you suppose he does to makes his children obedient little slaves to his will. I am sick. I am experiencing uncomfortable feeling of intense hatred. I so wish I had never opened this disgusting thread. But, if any one single person learns something, it will be worth it. Now, I am going to hold my perfectly well behaved angel in my arms and kiss her. I just wish that an angel would come to save dear Emme. Her appointed mom seems to think that killing her spirit will save her. I will hold my tongue at this, but you all know what I am thinking, because you are thinking it too.


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## Grace'sMom

I watched that news coverage and it shows his "kennels".....  It's very brief - when he's taking a dog out of it's kennel by a pole.

I'm even more sad now thinking of Emme in one of those large kennels (or a small one maybe) with all those other big barking dogs.

This is horrible.

I can't believe anyone would send ANY dog to him.

We have a board and train facility here but he uses all positive methods - no choke or prong collars, no Ecollars. No kennels - the dog stays in their home in their room with them (they are a couple) living with them just as their pets do.

I really hope a breeder recognizes her puppy and steps in


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## Mia's Grammy

Hello, 
My Mia is doing wonderful and I am so attached as having her at 6 weeks old I cannot stand when I have to leave her for a Doctor appointment or any errands. She has enriched my life and I look forward to waking to that little face everyday! I have not posted in awhile but I still follow yalls post a couple times a week. After reading this I need to be on more often. If there is one good thing from this thread I learned I should not be using Mias collar but should be using her harness! I never heard of the throat problems that could come from a collar! Thanks again for all yalls wonderful information.


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## Ladysmom

I'm with Sylie. Time to run to the bathroom to throw up. Anyone who refers to a dog as "it" should not be training them IMO.

*"I think he can bring a different element to behavioral training, which is good," she said. "Different dogs, different perspectives. He's more of a Cesar Millan."*

*As Gellman entered Missy's outdoor kennel, the small dog ran reluctantly into a plastic doghouse - until he tipped her out. She cowered in a corner as he slipped a collar around her neck.*

*"You can't tell it not to be afraid," he explained to shelter staffers. "I'm not going to let her suck me into her nervous world. Why reinforce fear?"*

*Missy's demeanor soon changed as Gellman walked her across the shelter's backyard, leading her on his left side. He urged staff to give resistant dogs a "gentle pop," or tug, when they want to pull away, but to leave leashes loose while they heel.*

*"They're a pack animal and we forget that," Gellman explained. "It's up to the human to be a good pack leader."*

*He also advocated the use of a metal, Medieval-looking pinch collar slipped low around a dog's neck, instead of conventional slip collars - which unintentionally choke the animal and ramp-up its excitement-level, he said.*

*"It looks barbaric," Gellman admitted. "But when a dog is pulling [its owner], it's not training. It's resisting everything you're doing. It's not receiving information."*

*"When you're holding a dog back by its collar, you're training it to be worse," he added, noting that all training should give dog owners the ability to control their pets without a leash.*

*The key is to assert dominance without being overly affectionate.*

*"When you're taking a dog for a walk, that's affection," Gellman said. "They want to work. They want structure. A dog is a creature of dominance, of order."*

*"You have to train hard to live good," he added. "You're teaching **the dog to exist in our world."*


Trainer pushes tough love for shelter cases - The Westerly Sun: News


I cannot imagine intentionally training a Maltese puppy like this.


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## Sylie

Now, I would dearly love to train that man to obey me. Oh, yes. I would train him to heel. I would train him to work for every scrap of food. Oh, yes I would train him quite well. He would crawl behind MiMi ... Time to stop. Use your imagination. 

Honestly, I tried to stay out of this, but I am so angry, I don't know where to put this anger.Our sensible members tried to educate or enlighten the deaf. Me:exploding:


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## TLR

Sylie said:


> Now, I would dearly love to train that man to obey me. Oh, yes. I would train him to heel. I would train him to work for every scrap of food. Oh, yes I would train him quite well. He would crawl behind MiMi ... Time to stop. Use your imagination.
> 
> Honestly, I tried to stay out of this, but I am so angry, I don't know where to put this anger.Our sensible members tried to educate or enlighten the deaf. Me:exploding:


I like the way you think and would love to be your training assistant. This is sad beyond words, I too am sick just thinking of poor Emme. Soooooo sad.


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## Ladysmom

Before becoming a dog trainer, Mr. Gellman managed Miko Exoticwear for 14 years. Not the credentials I would look for in a dog trainer.

Jeff Gellman | LinkedIn

Here's a review of Miko Exoticwear:

"Pretty good selection of lubes, condoms, and BDSM items. There aren't enough dildos, vibrators, gag-gifts or DVDs. What really separates Miko's from other sex shops are the classes. Where else can you sign a friend up for "How to please your man" and learn from a vulva-puppet? In the same place another day, you may take your weekly How to Strip class. Come here for sex ed, but look somewhere else if you are already educated."

Miko Lingerie & Exoticwear - CLOSED - Fox Point - Providence, RI


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## maggieh

Marj - OMG!


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## maltese manica

Ladysmom said:


> Before becoming a dog trainer, Mr. Gellman managed Miko Exoticwear. Not the credentials I would look for in a dog trainer.
> 
> Jeff Gellman | LinkedIn
> 
> Here's a review of Miko Exoticwear:
> 
> "Pretty good selection of lubes, condoms, and BDSM items. There aren't enough dildos, vibrators, gag-gifts or DVDs. What really separates Miko's from other sex shops are the classes. Where else can you sign a friend up for "How to please your man" and learn from a vulva-puppet? In the same place another day, you may take your weekly How to Strip class. Come here for sex ed, but look somewhere else if you are already educated."
> 
> Miko Lingerie & Exoticwear - CLOSED - Fox Point - Providence, RI


 
Geez what a great dog trainer not only can he train your dog he can recommend a dildo:thumbsup: ya........ um ............. yup! :huh: what the heck


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

bellaratamaltese said:


> I have already posted on a Maltese exhibitor list asking if this was someone's puppy they had placed. Just very sad. Comments have been made on the fb pics but they are deleted just as quickly


Thank you, Stacey. Even if they are deleting the FB pics ... at least whomever is doing the deleting, knows that people are now watching and starting to speak up.


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## maltese manica

Well looks like deleting pictures messages etc; is going to make you feel better then do it! just know that you are putting emme at risk! so is he going to shut down his facebook account as well...


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## Sylie

Ladysmom said:


> Before becoming a dog trainer, Mr. Gellman managed Miko Exoticwear for 14 years. Not the credentials I would look for in a dog trainer.
> 
> Jeff Gellman | LinkedIn
> 
> Here's a review of Miko Exoticwear:
> 
> "Pretty good selection of lubes, condoms, and BDSM items. There aren't enough dildos, vibrators, gag-gifts or DVDs. What really separates Miko's from other sex shops are the classes. Where else can you sign a friend up for "How to please your man" and learn from a vulva-puppet? In the same place another day, you may take your weekly How to Strip class. Come here for sex ed, but look somewhere else if you are already educated."
> 
> Miko Lingerie & Exoticwear - CLOSED - Fox Point - Providence, RI


I guess the poor fool was unable to work with humans, because he obviously had some *weakness*, so he turned his desire to dominate toward little dogs. What a pathetic excuse for a human being. Perhaps we should all search our souls and feel compassion for a man who is so inept he needs to dominate a tiny dog in order to feel adequate. Poor man, it must be really hard to dominate a two pound puppy.


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## Leila'sMommy

Well, now she has deleted that picture of Emme here. Poor little Emme! I just can't get that cute little baby off my mind and that picture of her at 12 weeks old sitting there so innocent, wearing a choke collar. I hope that image isn't burned in my memory forever.


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## Zoe's Mom88

Leila'sMommy said:


> Well, now she has deleted that picture of Emme here. Poor little Emme! I just can't get that cute little baby off my mind and that picture of her at 12 weeks old sitting there so innocent, wearing a choke collar. I hope that image isn't burned in my memory forever.


It has been burned in my mind since I first saw Emme's picture. Everyone here has said exactly what I have been feeling since I first looked at the post. I am so saddedned by this and don't quite understand how any human can get away with doing this in this day and age.....especially to a 4 week old Maltese that has no idea about life and who she is at such a young age. I am sickened and didn't want to respond to any of these posts for all these days but its so heart breaking. I almost felt like this person knew posting on SM would get the response it has and she is happy about it. :angry:


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## bellaratamaltese

I think we can all pretty much agree that this time of training is unnecessary for a young maltese puppy but there may be some circumstances with large aggressive dogs that this may be the answers to the owners prayers. I know I used to have an akita when I was growing up that we did all the wrong things with and did not properly socialize and a trainer that used similar techniques was a life saver for us. But that was a 100 lb Akita, not a couple pound little sweetie.

So yes we can make judgements and read into things that have been posted but it's just our opinions - it's not based on first hand knowledge. Let's just hope that things will works out for this little pup and her owner is not spending a huge chunk of money and getting back a frightened dog.

The show breeders who have responded are as horrified as all of us and I will be adding a paragraph into my contract saying that sending one of my dogs to this type of trainer will void all contract terms. I do not think I will be the only one adding this either.


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## maggieh

Folks, the OP has requested that this thread be closed. I will honor her request.


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## maltese manica

bellaratamaltese said:


> I think we can all pretty much agree that this time of training is unnecessary for a young maltese puppy but there may be some circumstances with large aggressive dogs that this may be the answers to the owners prayers. I know I used to have an akita when I was growing up that we did all the wrong things with and did not properly socialize and a trainer that used similar techniques was a life saver for us. But that was a 100 lb Akita, not a couple pound little sweetie.
> 
> So yes we can make judgements and read into things that have been posted but it's just our opinions - it's not based on first hand knowledge. Let's just hope that things will works out for this little pup and her owner is not spending a huge chunk of money and getting back a frightened dog.
> 
> The show breeders who have responded are as horrified as all of us and I will be adding a paragraph into my contract saying that sending one of my dogs to this type of trainer will void all contract terms. I do not think I will be the only one adding this either.


:goodpost:


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