# Lisi needs prayers!



## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

This week we are going to do prelim blood work for Lisi in order to get her booster shots next week. Some of you know her situation w/allergies and anaphylactic shock. This is a real step of faith for us because we know there are no guarantees. My regular vet feels strongly that it is necessary as she is not covered on all the main illnesses as it is---and I can't take her outside much at the moment. I can't keep her confined to the house for the rest of her life either---she is ready to go, go, go! It has been a tough decision and one I may live to regret, but I am calling deep on my courage to do what is best for her.
I will let you know after the prelim blood work which day next week she will be scheduled. I appreciate your prayers for my baby girl.:wub:


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Prayers will be with Lisi and you too Sandi that everything goes well for her!!!


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

Boy what a tough decision! Lifting sweet baby and you Sandi in prayer.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Will certainly be getting those prayers out for your little Lisi!! I know you really are caught between a rock and a hard place on this issue! 
You're considering her overall well-being so You just have to follow your heart. ( ...this is where one of those magic balls would sure come in handy! ) 
Will be looking for your post on the schedule day and will be 'virtually' holding your hand and 'stressing' right along with you till it's all over!


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

Praying all goes well for Lisi. This must be so stressful for you. Will they keep Lisi at the vet after her shots so they can monitor her.


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## maltese#1fan (Feb 20, 2012)

Praying for Lisi and for you as well. I know this must be a very difficult decision for you.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Thank you ALL. I just talked w/my regular vet & she wants me to call her back tonight as they have an emergency at the moment in the practice and she wants me to understand everything well. The real problem is that I DO already! I know well the risks involved on both sides and have asked for advice from people whom I respect. Keeping her at home doesn't mean we can't bring in parvo from the outside---so that ALONE is pretty scary for me. I have to admit that I am "nervous" about it all. I will definitely stay there (we will schedule early AM which is 10:00 here) so that she can be observed. I will also make sure the regular vet is present & she will be prepared, but as she said "there are no guarantees." Yikes!


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## IzzysBellasMom (Jan 16, 2013)

Praying for your Lisi, may she come through it all with no complications.


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## lynda (Oct 11, 2005)

Praying that all goes well for precious Lisi. Sending you both positive thoughts and hugs.rayer:rayer::grouphug::grouphug:


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## preisa (Mar 7, 2013)

Lifting you and Lisi up in prayer. 


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## TLR (Nov 13, 2011)

Prayers for Lisi.


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## donnad (Aug 22, 2006)

I will definitely be praying for your little girl. I just know she will be fine.


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## harrysmom (Sep 28, 2007)

Sandi,

Is it possible to titer for the shots that she already had, so that at least the number of boosters she needs is lower? And is it possible to give her benadryl before the shots to prevent a full blown reaction? Hopefully, your vet is only giving one shot and then waiting a few weeks in between, also. 

Hoping for a good outcome and sending prayers and hugs... :wub:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

harrysmom said:


> Sandi,
> 
> Is it possible to titer for the shots that she already had, so that at least the number of boosters she needs is lower? And is it possible to give her benadryl before the shots to prevent a full blown reaction?
> 
> Hoping for a good outcome and sending prayers and hugs... :wub:


Deb, "no" they don't titer here---I asked before. And my vet doesn't believe in premedication w/benadryl as it masks a true anaphylactic shock until it might be too late to bring them out of it. I think you might have read what Sue wrote about biphasic reactions. Lisi isn't only allergic but she goes into shock. Some have suggested lower amounts, but ANY amount produces the same reaction in a dog who is truly allergic---even one drop! 
I am planning on holding off on lepto until I get her to the US but the others were due in Jan.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Sandi, boy I know this is a very tough one for you. What's the prelim bloodwork for? I was a little confused about when that's being done and when you were planning on a vaccine. I too, like Deb was wondering if you could get a titer done to see if you could lessen the amount of shots given. Depending on those results at least you'd know she has protection. We will all be praying for you and I know your faith will get you through anything. As a mom of a skin kid who had anaphylactic reactions, the first two nearly fatal, I know how you feel. We're here for you. :smootch:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Sandi, boy I know this is a very tough one for you. What's the prelim bloodwork for? I was a little confused about when that's being done and when you were planning on a vaccine. I too, like Deb was wondering if you could get a titer done to see if you could lessen the amount of shots given. Depending on those results at least you'd know she has protection. We will all be praying for you and I know your faith will get you through anything. As a mom of a skin kid who had anaphylactic reactions, the first two nearly fatal, I know how you feel. We're here for you. :smootch:


Sorry I wasn't clear Sue---guess it shows my concern already!
The prelim blood work is to make certain she is healthy after the bout w/TBD last fall & then the rabies anaphylactic reaction. Only a healthy dog should get vaccine so I need to be sure she is ok first. I am only planning on doing the diphtheria, parvo & hepatitis booster. These are the only 3 essential ones for me and all 3 are rampant here in Greece. 
I think we will do the bloodwork on Sat. after our guests leave Fri. evening and then do the shots next week---probably Mon. or Tuesday. I will schedule tonight w/my regular vet.
I have very mixed emotions but I know that without these shots I will also be a basket case each time I take Lisi out of the house---which I did a lot of this last week! :smilie_tischkante:


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Sandi.. can you do one shot at a time and space/day/week between them?


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## maltese manica (Nov 6, 2012)

Lisi you are in my prayers!!!


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## Zoe's Mom88 (Apr 25, 2011)

Sandi, that really is tough. I know how difficult this must be for you. Sending prayers that all will go well. Hugs!


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## MoonDog (Jun 6, 2011)

Praying for you both Sandi.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

I will pray, dear Sandi! I know that because of your situation and geographical location, this puts you somewhere between a rock and a hard place...but if Lisi were mine, I could not do it. I admire your courage and faith...big ((hugs)) to you, my friend...:grouphug: Could you take her out in the stroller? I guess I am just grasping at straws...but I so wish there was another option...keep us posted..


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

aprilb said:


> I will pray, dear Sandi! I know that because of your situation and geographical location, this puts you somewhere between a rock and a hard place...but if Lisi were mine, I could not do it. I admire your courage and faith...big ((hugs)) to you, my friend...:grouphug:


Sweet friend, I am not unfearful. . . but I think it is necessary and I know that something could happen. . . but I also know that "God does not take us where He cannot keep us." So, regardless of my fear I move forward believing I am doing the only thing I can for her, besides locking her up for life. My vet says these are the last shots we "have" to take---the others are optional.


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## ladodd (Jan 8, 2012)

Sandi, I will be praying for sweet Lisi. It does sound like a tough call, but I agree with what you're doing. Please keep us posted.


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## SweetMalteseAngels (Oct 16, 2011)

Oh Sandi, how worries you must be. I will keep Lisi in my prayers. Big hugs to you.


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## babycake7 (Jan 30, 2012)

Praying for you and sweet Lisi...


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Sandi - sending you good thoughts, virtual hugs, and lots and lots of prayers! Hoping everything goes well with Lisi!


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

Sandi -- sending lots of prayers and positive energy your way. And lots and lots of hugs to sweet little Lisi.


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## maggie's mommy (Mar 12, 2006)

Sandy, this is so scary. Will be praying for you and Lisi. Good luck.


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## Yogi's Mom (Jan 6, 2013)

*Prayers and lots of them For You to Mommy.*
*Nickee In Pa**


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## Super3*k (Feb 26, 2013)

Praying for you Sandi and Lisi..keep us posted.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

When you say she "isn't covered on all of the main illnesses"...is that confirmed by titer? Will the vet agree to do single vaccines only, and space them out? It is the dosing of multiple vaccines at once that causes the greatest problems for our dogs.


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

Praying for you and sweet Lisi :grouphug:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

pammy4501 said:


> When you say she "isn't covered on all of the main illnesses"...is that confirmed by titer? Will the vet agree to do single vaccines only, and space them out? It is the dosing of multiple vaccines at once that causes the greatest problems for our dogs.


As mentioned before titers are not possible here. All of Lisi's previous vaccines have been individual---even the 2 where she had severe anaphylactic reactions. My vet says she isn't covered because she only had the initial shots & not the booster (after l yr. to date of original shots as a puppy)---these were due in early Jan. I think even Jean Dodd's protocol includes this last booster series of distemper & parvo. I can ask the vet when I go for the blood work if the boosters can be given the same way but I may be running the risk of 3 reactions rather than one? not sure about that.


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Praying for little Lisi - so scary for you 

It is really too bad that there is no way to do a titer test.
Daisy only had her initial puppy shots, and when it came time to do the one year booster we did a titer test first and she was already fully protected, so no need to do the booster. 
It seems such a shame to give Lisi the shots when she might already have full protection. Is there any way to wait until you come to the US and then have a titer test done, or any other alternative for a titer test? It is just a blood test - maybe there is a lab it can be sent to, even in another country? You probably have explored all the options already, I am just so worried for her.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Kathleen said:


> Praying for little Lisi - so scary for you
> 
> It is really too bad that there is no way to do a titer test.
> Daisy only had her initial puppy shots, and when it came time to do the one year booster we did a titer test first and she was already fully protected, so no need to do the booster.
> It seems such a shame to give Lisi the shots when she might already have full protection. Is there any way to wait until you come to the US and then have a titer test done, or any other alternative for a titer test? It is just a blood test - maybe there is a lab it can be sent to, even in another country? You probably have explored all the options already, I am just so worried for her.


Great ideas but usually one cannot send blood internationally. I am not sure how long I can wait to do the shots, so if anyone knows please inform me. I will try to find out if they titer in Austria as I will be flying there sometime to collect our paperwork IF it ever gets finished up. 

Apparently, or at least I have been told, that just doing a titer when the initial time has elapsed is no guarantee that it lasts the full 3-7 yrs. that it might expire after the titer is taken? Since I have never titered I am not sure about any of that. If I knew she had a high titer I would be inclined to wait and do another titer in a year. Did you do that?


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Will keep your little sweetie in my thoughts!


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Good luck little one.


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Apparently, or at least I have been told, that just doing a titer when the initial time has elapsed is no guarantee that it lasts the full 3-7 yrs. that it might expire after the titer is taken? Since I have never titered I am not sure about any of that. If I knew she had a high titer I would be inclined to wait and do another titer in a year. Did you do that?[/QUOTE]

We haven't had to do it yet, because Daisy is just a little over a year, but that is what we plan to do. My vet said that because the little dogs are given such a high dose initially, she may never need another shot, but we can titer every year for peace of mind to be sure she is still protected.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

All I can tell you is that I would not do it. But you are overseas and travel with the dogs and you might not have a choice. Charlie was born in August 2010. His last vaccination with the breeder was in December 2010 (DHPP). In December 2011 when his one year booster came up, I had titer done and since they came back good we did not vaccinate and I am not going to vaccinate at least for another 3 years. And then, will first do titers again. I think the risk for Lisi to have an allergic reaction is more life threatening than not vaccinate at all. But as I said, you travel, you might not have a choice.

View attachment 127274


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

One other question you might ask the vet is what would happen if Lisi were to get any of the diseases that the vaccines are for. If she didn't receive the vaccine and were to be exposed, are they treatable? Is that risk less than the risk of a reaction to the vaccine, based on her history of reactions? It just seems that based on the awful reactions that she has had in the past, the vaccine could be more risky than the disease it is intended to prevent.

Here is some good info on titer testing with lots of links to other information:
Titer Testing: A Crash Course | Truth4Pets

A good link from the same site on questions to ask before giving a vaccine:
Questions to Ask | Truth4Pets

Boy you are in a tough position - no easy answers. I will be praying for beautiful little Lisi that she is safe and well.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Sandi you have an FB account so you might be able to see this :

https://www.facebook.com/notes/natu...nations-to-vaccinate-or-not/10152619823625585

If not go to Suzan's timeline and you will find the link there.


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## sherry (Jan 4, 2013)

Sandi and Lisi, we have hugs and prayers for you! Riley just had his rabies and we pre-treated and he did fine, but I was really stressed! Bless your heart and keep us posted!


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## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

:grouphug: praying everything goes well


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## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

Thinking of you Sandi and lifting up a prayer. I know how much you have struggled with making this decision and I pray all will go well for Lisi. Big hugs.


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## educ8m (May 19, 2010)

Sandi, it sounds like you have asked numerous questions and educated yourself before making this decision. Since you don't have all the choices in Greece that we have here and traveling internationally has other requirements, it may not even be a choice to not vaccinate. I can feel your turmoil through your writing. I will certainly pray for Lisi.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Sending blood internationally, especially into the U.S. is not usually that hard. It just needs to be properly labeled for customs.


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## luvmybabe (Dec 30, 2012)

My thoughts and prayers sent your way


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## socalyte (Nov 15, 2010)

Sandi, I will be praying for Lisi and the immunization issue-- I remember all the problems she has had and know it has to be scary just thinking of trying again. I'll especially be praying that your vet is given divine wisdom and guidance.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Kathleen said:


> Apparently, or at least I have been told, that just doing a titer when the initial time has elapsed is no guarantee that it lasts the full 3-7 yrs. that it might expire after the titer is taken? Since I have never titered I am not sure about any of that. If I knew she had a high titer I would be inclined to wait and do another titer in a year. Did you do that?


We haven't had to do it yet, because Daisy is just a little over a year, but that is what we plan to do. My vet said that because the little dogs are given such a high dose initially, she may never need another shot, but we can titer every year for peace of mind to be sure she is still protected.[/QUOTE]

Kathleen, Thank You! this is very helpful info!! It makes me more inclined to wait & test Lisi in the US when we are state-side. She had her last shots after she was 5 months old, one at a time w/waiting in-between so it may well be that she is covered enough still. Now I am starting to rethink all of this again.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

MalteseJane said:


> Sandi you have an FB account so you might be able to see this :
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/notes/natu...nations-to-vaccinate-or-not/10152619823625585
> 
> If not go to Suzan's timeline and you will find the link there.


Janine, thank you for this link---I did read the entire article and as I said to Kathleen, I am starting again to re-think all of this. I read several informative articles on titering last night. I am thinking Lisi may well be in better shape than I originally thought because she was vaccinated after she was 5 months old (the vet felt the other shots were given too early to do any good) one at a time w/space between them. 
I do intend to run the blood work to make sure she is free of the TBD she contracted last fall (along w/Kitzi) and the anaphylactic reaction to the rabies shot she had in late November. I also got the Quercetin April recommended for her allergies & will start it now. I hope to build up her little immune system. If anyone has any other ideas of how to do that I am all ears! I have a feeling somehow that she is not fully recovered from the rabies reaction.

Gee, I love this forum!:wub:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Sandi- I would not vaccinate her. I'd use a stroller. That's me though. As far as titer, IMO you really don't know a month later if she is still immune, but maybe she is, so I think it's a start with Lisel. The cure might be worse than the disease. Sounds like she can travel since your bringing her to the US, did you get a waiver approved for her? 
I know you want to protect her, but I just don't think I could do it. I would probably get a good sitter for her if I had to travel without her. 
Bless your heart, Sandi. :wub:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Kandis, Lisi is up to date on her shots needed for travel at the moment---and I am confident now that the rabies issue can be worked out in a quiet way when it comes due. Technically that is the only shot (rabies) she has to have to travel internationally & it MUST be done every year--no waivers allowed. The shots we are talking about here are her l year boosters (not including lepto or KC) that Jean Dodd recommends in her protocol (distemper & parvo & maybe hepatitis). 
I had not planned on bringing Lisi to the US in early June when we come as she is such a bad traveler, but I may have to reconsider.
She doesn't travel any better in the stroller! :HistericalSmiley: :smilie_tischkante:


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

It really is a shame you can't get titers there.  according to Shultz the immunologist, once you have proven immunity you are pretty much good to go. I think the yearly titers is the vets way of getting people back into the office for a yearly check, but not necessary. He and Jean both collaborate a lot. Mine are both proven strong immunity.  
From an article "Dr. Ron Schultz, one of the most renowned pet vaccination experts in the country, believes that once a test yields strong titers, you need not test again. In Dr. Jean Dodd’s article on vaccine reactions, she quotes Dr. Schultz on the value of testing titers: “an animal with a positive test has sterilizing immunity and should be protected from infection. If that animal were vaccinated it would not respond with a significant increase in antibody titer, but may develop a hypersensitivity to vaccine components (e.g. fetal bovine serum).”"

It really makes total sense. No human gets boosters every year....it isn't the way the immune system works.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

silverhaven said:


> It really is a shame you can't get titers there.  according to Shultz the immunologist, once you have proven immunity you are pretty much good to go. I think the yearly titers is the vets way of getting people back into the office for a yearly check, but not necessary. He and Jean both collaborate a lot. Mine are both proven strong immunity.
> From an article "Dr. Ron Schultz, one of the most renowned pet vaccination experts in the country, believes that once a test yields strong titers, you need not test again. In Dr. Jean Dodd’s article on vaccine reactions, she quotes Dr. Schultz on the value of testing titers: “an animal with a positive test has sterilizing immunity and should be protected from infection. If that animal were vaccinated it would not respond with a significant increase in antibody titer, but may develop a hypersensitivity to vaccine components (e.g. fetal bovine serum).”"
> 
> It really makes total sense. No human gets boosters every year....it isn't the way the immune system works.


Maureen, it is funny that you bring this up as I read a wonderful article last evening on just this thing---only titer once & if strong titer don't need to titer again. That was one of the reasons I began to rethink this issue as I could titer once in the US & feel great not doing it again! :thumbsup: If I had to titer each year it would be a problem from overseas, but this is workable.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

edelweiss said:


> Maureen, it is funny that you bring this up as I read a wonderful article last evening on just this thing---only titer once & if strong titer don't need to titer again. That was one of the reasons I began to rethink this issue as I could titer once in the US & feel great not doing it again! :thumbsup: If I had to titer each year it would be a problem from overseas, but this is workable.


Personally, that is probably what I would do in your case. :thumbsup: I will likely just do one more in a maybe 3 years just for my peace of mind too. We really have no rabies and little parvo and distemper here, so our risk is minimal anyway. It is scary trying to do the right thing for our little ones either way. Weighing the risks/advantages is like a minefield.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Sandi - my son was titered because of his reaction to an MMR shot and his anaphylactic reactions to eggs. He was only titered once in his life and didn't need to do it again. Colleges etc accepted his early titer result. Hope you can do this for Lisi. I spent 20 years avoiding anaphylactic shock in him and never knowingly exposed him to his allergens.


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Well, i'm late to the game, will most definitely keep Lisi in my prayers. Hopefully you can have Lisi titered when you come to the states and be good to go.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

edelweiss said:


> Kandis, Lisi is up to date on her shots needed for travel at the moment---and I am confident now that the rabies issue can be worked out in a quiet way when it comes due. Technically that is the only shot (rabies) she has to have to travel internationally & it MUST be done every year--no waivers allowed. The shots we are talking about here are her l year boosters (not including lepto or KC) that Jean Dodd recommends in her protocol (distemper & parvo & maybe hepatitis).
> I had not planned on bringing Lisi to the US in early June when we come as she is such a bad traveler, but I may have to reconsider.
> She doesn't travel any better in the stroller! :HistericalSmiley: :smilie_tischkante:


Thanks Sandi--Glad she is up to date at the moment. Could it be that she has difficulty socializing because she doesn't get out much. Sammie was like that after being down with LP surgery. I notice mine need constant interaction or they become more excited about things when we go places. I followed her recommendation for the 1 yr boosters too but, if memory serves me Dr Dodds states that all follow up vaccines which would include the booster protocol applies unless the dog had a reaction/shock. therefore it's life threading. I guess sometimes it just is what it is. I was trying to remember which she had a reaction to which one and was it a combo vaccine? I'm looking into a holistic Vet, as they will titer and use only the single shot and dose vials. This is such a hard subject to deal with. I feel so bad for the pups that get all the combo shots and duel vaccines in one day. Poor babies, shame many Vets won't stop IMO. 
There are good links in Maureen's post. I had read Schultz long ago, but there are some other ones that are good at the bottom of the link to Dr Schultz.


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## Rocky's Mom (Apr 10, 2010)

Praying all goes well for Lisi...tough one.


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