# Good breeders



## bianx8 (Jun 19, 2011)

Does anyone know good Maltese breeders who offer early puppy training or any form of obedience training before letting their pups go? also, I know that there was an issue with Sonshine Acres Maltese in 2006 but have they improved somehow? Was that issue resolved? They seem to have adorable pups on their site, I'm not after a show dog but would like something of good health. Anyone can tell me about them? Also, any known scam artists out there I should weed out of my search for a new puppy?


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## Canada (Jun 4, 2009)

If you are going with a breeder, look for one who shows their dogs.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I don't know the history of this breeder so looked up the site & immediately saw this red flag under the lst puppy:
" True teacup and baby doll face!!!" This alone would scare ME away. :hiding:
There are numerous wonderful breeders listed w/American Maltese Association. Google them. 
I would also look into the rescue sites---there are so many now in need of loving homes due to the financial crisis or ill-health or some other understandable reasons. :heart:
Do keep asking questions---there are so many knowledgable persons on here who would be happy to help you find the perfect puppy. Are you looking for gender specific?


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

I'm not sure what you mean by "early puppy training" or "obedience training." Most ethical breeders begin the potty training process. If you are wanting more training, I would not select a young puppy. If you want a dog who know basic obedience, I agree that a rescue is a good idea. There is no such thing as a "teacup". The Maltese standard is 4-7 pounds. Good luck in your search.:thumbsup:


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

Puppies at 12 weeks old are not typically "obedience trained." To expect a baby of that age to know obedience commands is kind of like expecting a toddler to be able to have completed grammar school. Puppies of that age are truly babies and while they may have learned a number of things, they should have a lot more learning to do. It would be up to the new owner to provide enrichment in the form of puppy kindergarten and basic obedience classes. 

However, all breeders should try to be sure their pups are well socialized. I look for breeders who have actively considered enriched and social environments for their puppies.


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## bianx8 (Jun 19, 2011)

No correction, with regards to the early puppy training or obedience trained dogs I was talking about, I wasn't expecting it to be a young puppy anymore. Maybe an older puppy, teenager if you want to call it that. Yes, simple stuff like one that's already crate trained/ housebroken, knows basic puppy/dog manners, is used to traveling (riding in cars) or for an older dog, one that's been obedience trained. I find that many good reputable breeders have beautiful show dogs that they sell as "pets" but none that I've found actually sell pre-trained dogs as pets. If you were looking for a pet, you want one that will be a good companion dog so at the very least, manners and housebreaking should already be done, especially if you're getting an older puppy where these must be instilled in them at a very young age. Most trainers say that they need to know the right's and wrong's in manners before 5 months or so. Ive come across good breeders with beautiful pups that place them at 6 months plus cause it's only then that they realize that the pups dont qualify for the show ring. But none of them have been pre trained. Know what I mean? For example, someone sent me a video of a beautiful 7 month old maltese female that was for sale. But in the video, the pup kept chasing after her finger and she was letting the dog chew on her finger while she moved it around. Now, why would I want an older dog that thinks mouthing on her owners fingers is a form of play??! I know, it was pretty clueless on her part, but not many breeders I suppose may be conscious of what "puppy manners" is and they should instill given they keep them till they're 12 weeks old. Basically I guess what I'm asking is-- does anybody know of good show breeders that will make the effort to do early puppy training on the pups they will eventually place as "pets"? Or a breeder who specifically breeds maltese that are obedience trained (even for an extra price)? You can find golden retriever breeders who do that, german shepherd breeders too, but I haven't come across maltese breeders yet who do. With regards to shelters....like many of you, I do want to know where my future dog came from, I want to know it's lineage and I'll want one that's in good health. I'm not sure I'll be getting a lot of options with those requirements from a shelter. I could be wrong though, honestly I haven't looked much and the ones I've found look like they're in terrible health. Vet bills can run really high and I dont think it's a good idea for what I'm looking for.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

bianx8 said:


> No correction, with regards to the early puppy training or obedience trained dogs I was talking about, I wasn't expecting it to be a young puppy anymore. Maybe an older puppy, teenager if you want to call it that. Yes, simple stuff like one that's already crate trained/ housebroken, knows basic puppy/dog manners, is used to traveling (riding in cars) or for an older dog, one that's been obedience trained. I find that many good reputable breeders have beautiful show dogs that they sell as "pets" but none that I've found actually sell pre-trained dogs as pets. If you were looking for a pet, you want one that will be a good companion dog so at the very least, manners and housebreaking should already be done, especially if you're getting an older puppy where these must be instilled in them at a very young age. Most trainers say that they need to know the right's and wrong's in manners before 5 months or so. Ive come across good breeders with beautiful pups that place them at 6 months plus cause it's only then that they realize that the pups dont qualify for the show ring. But none of them have been pre trained. Know what I mean? For example, someone sent me a video of a beautiful 7 month old maltese female that was for sale. But in the video, the pup kept chasing after her finger and she was letting the dog chew on her finger while she moved it around. Now, why would I want an older dog that thinks mouthing on her owners fingers is a form of play??! I know, it was pretty clueless on her part, but not many breeders I suppose may be conscious of what "puppy manners" is and they should instill given they keep them till they're 12 weeks old. Basically I guess what I'm asking is-- does anybody know of good show breeders that will make the effort to do early puppy training on the pups they will eventually place as "pets"? Or a breeder who specifically breeds maltese that are obedience trained (even for an extra price)? You can find golden retriever breeders who do that, german shepherd breeders too, but I haven't come across maltese breeders yet who do. With regards to shelters....like many of you, I do want to know where my future dog came from, I want to know it's lineage and I'll want one that's in good health. I'm not sure I'll be getting a lot of options with those requirements from a shelter. I could be wrong though, honestly I haven't looked much and the ones I've found look like they're in terrible health. Vet bills can run really high and I dont think it's a good idea for what I'm looking for.


I really don't know how to respond without running the risk of coming across as being not very helpful or, worse yet, sounding somewhat sarcastic, but I'll try. Honestly, I've now read all of your posts since you joined Spoiled Maltese and my first observation is that you have extremely high expectations that may be more than a bit unrealistic.

My puppies are socialized to the best of my ability before they go to their new homes. They are potty pad trained, they have slept alone in crates at night, they have had multiple car rides, they have met lots of people in my home and in settings other than my home. I play games with them, I let them explore on their own, and I allow them to chase my finger and chew on it. That activity, by the way, is not what I would call a "pretty clueless form of play on the part of the breeder." Instead, I see that activity as a great way to teach a puppy bite inhibition, meaning they learn to softly chew or caress a human finger rather than chomp down on it. Whether it's a young child who may stick their finger in a dog's mouth, a judge examining a dog's bite at a dog show, a vet checking the dog's teeth or an adult removing something from a dog's mouth that could be harmful to the dog, I want to know that my dogs are comfortable with a finger in or around their mouth, hence allowing them as youngsters to chase and chew on my finger. 

I want a well-behaved companion dog just as much as anybody. Whether a dog does or does not know sit, down, come, heel, etc. does not guarantee good companionship. Generally a dog who feels loved and secure will be open to learning things throughout its life. What do you mean by housebreaking? A dog who is trained to eliminate only outdoors and will signal to go out? Or a dog who will on its own go to a potty pad to eliminate? Or a dog who will do either, depending on its immediate needs? I would not start training any Maltese puppy to eliminate outdoors until it is at least 12 weeks old and, honestly, if I know at 12 weeks old what puppies will ultimately be placed in pet homes I am going to let their new owners decide where they want their new bundle of joy to eliminate and train accordingly. Any puppy I decide to keep as a potential show dog I may or may not train to eliminate outdoors, depending on the time of year the puppy was born because of weather conditions here in the northeast. If that puppy stays in my home to adulthood it will ultimately be trained to eliminate outdoors but I may not start that housetraining until after the dog has finished showing. There will always be at least one potty pad in my house in case a dog needs to use it.

As for your comments about shelter dogs, I have owned 3 rescue dogs. The first one was 14 mos. old when I got him. He will be 14 years old in July. My only expenses for him have been for annual wellness exams, occasional dental cleanings and training. He did not come "pre-trained." My second one was 11 wks. old when I got her. She is now 12-1/2 yrs. old. My expenses for her have been annual wellnes exams, occasional dental cleanings, surgery 7 yrs. ago for bladder stones, a prescription food since then, and training. She did not come "pre-trained." My third rescue was almost 8 yrs. old when I got him. I knew before I decided to take him in that he had both health and housetraining issues. His health issues were: horrible teeth, a heart murmur, and possible kidney issues. The kidney issues turned out to be non-existent, the teeth required major cleaning and the heart murmur only started to cost more toward the end of his life as I was doing echocardiograms every 6 mos or so. His housetraining issues were easily solved within a few weeks. Another one who did not come "pre-trained." He lived to be a week short of 14 yrs. old, he was my heart and soul dog, the love of my life and did not send me to the poor farm. All three of these untrained dogs of varying ages turned out to be first and foremost wonderful companions, all received their Canine Good Citizen designations, all were certified as Therapy Dogs, and were trained and competed in (and some titled in) AKC obedience and agility. I count my blessings x 3 every day for the joy these dogs have brought me.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Training, no I don't know of any breeders who fully train before sale. If you get a two year old that has been living in a house situation then maybe yes. But most puppies around the age you are looking will not be trained and if they are then they are likely to need retraining, particularly housebreaking, when they go to a new home. As far as the puppy chewing on fingers, no I don't think that is bad at all, sounds to me like she was teaching the puppy bite inhibition, if the puppy is chewing on her fingers and not hurting, it is learning how to have a soft gentle mouth, know when it hurts and when it doesn't, this is very valuable. I still do this with my Lola who is almost two, she really enjoys the game and I can hardly feel her at all when we do it. I do the same with my newer little one Penny, who hasn't learned quite so well yet. This training gave me confidence when I got my new little girl that Lola knew how to play and not hurt, it has shown to be the case. Teaching isn't always about sit, stay, but lots and lots of little things along the way. 

On another note, I have seen boarding training camps for puppies, where you send your puppy to stay, they train and then show you how to continue. But then of course you miss all those fun exciting bonding sessions with your new puppy.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

I agree with all that has been said. A Maltese is not like a Golden Retriever. It is a small, indoor lap dog, very much like an infant, requiring lots of attention. The primary purpose of these little dogs is for companionship and to be loved and adored. There are people who have their Maltese in agility training. Is this more of what you are wanting? Even so, no matter how much training a dog has had, there is a period of adjustment with a new owner. I also agree that an older puppy or teenager would be a better fit for you. I have never heard of any dog being "pre-trained."


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

I'm not as nice as Mary or April. I have to come out and say it....you want all the work to be done? You want a perfect, well trained dog? The truth is, I know where your can get a young champion. Perfect in every way. They start at $10,000.00 and go up to $50,000.00. (Seriously) What do you expect to pay for many months of hard word and devotion?


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Regarding shelter dogs - my little "tripod" Tessa completed her Canine Good Citizen in September and I adopted her from Northcentral Maltese Rescue. There is absolutely nothing like the unconditional love of a rescue or shelter dog! Please don't rule that out - you might find it to be a very rewarding experience.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Sylie said:


> I'm not as nice as Mary or April. I have to come out and say it....you want all the work to be done? You want a perfect, well trained dog? The truth is, I know where your can get a young champion. Perfect in every way. They start at $10,000.00 and go up to $50,000.00. (Seriously) What do you expect to pay for many months of hard word and devotion?


Show dogs don't have a lot of obedience training, honestly. They are trained to 'stand' (free stack) and they are taught to behave and are lead trained and are well traveled and socialized - but you wont' find many show dogs that are trained to sit on command. Or heel. Or fetch. It's just not something most show breeders do and it doesn't mean that they are 'lacking.' 

I am not an experienced dog trainer as far as obedience goes so I personally let the dogs go as 'clean slates.' There is nothing to unlearn or anything that will confuse the dog when the new owners tries commands or something that I screwed up and the new owner has to reteach. My puppies are lead trained, well-socialized and started/completely potty pad trained and know what 'no bark' means. Are they perfect when they go to new homes? NO. It is up to the new owner to follow up with potty training etc. 

Even a dog/puppy who is perfectly potty trained in one situation - put them in a whole new living scenario and expect them to 'know' what they are supposed to do - IMO, that can be setting up your dog for failure. When my dogs potty where they aren't supposed to, I don't blame them - I blame me. 

This is a very interesting topic! Thank you for bringing it up! This is a good discussion.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

bianx8 said:


> No correction, with regards to the early puppy training or obedience trained dogs I was talking about, I wasn't expecting it to be a young puppy anymore. Maybe an older puppy, teenager if you want to call it that. Yes, simple stuff like one that's already crate trained/ housebroken, knows basic puppy/dog manners, is used to traveling (riding in cars) or for an older dog, one that's been obedience trained. I find that many good reputable breeders have beautiful show dogs that they sell as "pets" but none that I've found actually sell pre-trained dogs as pets. If you were looking for a pet, you want one that will be a good companion dog so at the very least, manners and housebreaking should already be done, especially if you're getting an older puppy where these must be instilled in them at a very young age. Most trainers say that they need to know the right's and wrong's in manners before 5 months or so. Ive come across good breeders with beautiful pups that place them at 6 months plus cause it's only then that they realize that the pups dont qualify for the show ring. But none of them have been pre trained. Know what I mean? For example, someone sent me a video of a beautiful 7 month old maltese female that was for sale. But in the video, the pup kept chasing after her finger and she was letting the dog chew on her finger while she moved it around. Now, why would I want an older dog that thinks mouthing on her owners fingers is a form of play??! I know, it was pretty clueless on her part, but not many breeders I suppose may be conscious of what "puppy manners" is and they should instill given they keep them till they're 12 weeks old. Basically I guess what I'm asking is-- does anybody know of good show breeders that will make the effort to do early puppy training on the pups they will eventually place as "pets"? Or a breeder who specifically breeds maltese that are obedience trained (even for an extra price)? You can find golden retriever breeders who do that, german shepherd breeders too, but I haven't come across maltese breeders yet who do. With regards to shelters....like many of you, I do want to know where my future dog came from, I want to know it's lineage and I'll want one that's in good health. I'm not sure I'll be getting a lot of options with those requirements from a shelter. I could be wrong though, honestly I haven't looked much and the ones I've found look like they're in terrible health. Vet bills can run really high and I dont think it's a good idea for what I'm looking for.


So why don't you just go for a German Shepard? I really think that is the dog for you. Have you noticed that the name of this forum is SPOILED Maltese. Not OBEDIENT Maltese. Not SUBSERVIENT Maltese. Not Perfect Maltese. SPOILED Maltese. Indulged Maltese. Adored Maltese. Lap dogs who love us, and who we love. Oh, yes, my babies do fabulous tricks to entertain me. They shower me with love and yes, they are obedient....like "Sweetness, go lay down on your satin pillow," and, of course she does. Sorry, but I just think you are either misguided or just trying to "yank our chain" with your post. If I misread you, and you are indeed sincere, then I apologies and will give you info on retired, trained champions, if you are willing to spend the money for what you say you want.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Sylie said:


> So why don't you just go for a German Shepard? I really think that is the dog for you. Have you noticed that the name of this forum is SPOILED Maltese. Not OBEDIENT Maltese. Not SUBSERVIENT Maltese. Not Perfect Maltese. SPOILED Maltese. Indulged Maltese. Adored Maltese. Lap dogs who love us, and who we love. Oh, yes, my babies do fabulous tricks to entertain me. They shower me with love and yes, they are obedient....like "Sweetness, go lay down on your satin pillow," and, of course she does. Sorry, but I just think you are either misguided or just trying to "yank our chain" with your post. If I misread you, and you are indeed sincere, then I apologies and will give you info on retired, trained champions, if you are willing to spend the money for what you say you want.



Retired show dogs are usually placed for the cost of spay/neuter and dental cleaning, so they can be a good deal :thumbsup: Most reputable breeders won't sell intact champions unless it is to another established and ethical show home. 

i completely agree with you that these dogs beg to be spoiled!!!


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## gigigirlz (Jun 18, 2007)

I have to echo everything that Maggie said...I was fortunate enough to meet both Tessa and Sweetness...and of course Maggie also....Tessa is an absolute doll...got along fabulously with the other furbabies...and even liked the fish....wink....wink....


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## Canada (Jun 4, 2009)

I have read your posts also and am a bit confused. Do you have Maltese already?
You've asked how to make a dog appear younger & which blades to use, 
who on SM breeds Korean Malts, 
if we have photographs of dogs that are 4 pounds next to water bottles or tissue boxes, 
and the opinion on Sonshine Acres...


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## bianx8 (Jun 19, 2011)

Hey guys, i think you all completely misunderstood where I am coming from here. I am not expecting to buy a puppy that already knows how to sit and heel and stay....although if there was an older dog that needed rehoming who was already trained-- that wouldn't be so bad now, would it? Where I am from, you don't expect breeders to have socialized their puppies. Their puppies pretty much live in a crate and learn how to soil their own space cause they're never taken out and do not have a clue what a potty pad is. Most breeders I know of back home merely care to have a beautiful puppy with good pedigrees and will make good show dogs and good breeding stock or studs. I'm not after a "show dog". I want a well behaved pet. Not that they can't be one and the same but it helps when the puppies at a young age are already socialized, have good interaction with people, grows up in a loving home etc etc. 

I have NOTHING against rescued dogs either. As a matter of fact, the only dog I have IS A RESCUED DOG who I took in at 4 1/2 months. He learned that it was OK to soil his own crate, was never taken out of his cage, has a luxating patella that needs to be operated on, is a kidney former and has had to be confined for surgery twice cause of this, but after months of working with him, he is a good dog who I LOVE dearly and wouldn't trade for the world. So yes, rescued dogs are wonderful. But the few I've seen online recently are all sick with something and like most of us, this time around I just want a healthy pet....isn't that one of the reasons we should only buy from a reputable breeder in the first place? To avoid health problems and heartache? 

With regard to inquiring about Sonshine Acres, I am not familiar with them, they have cute dogs so I thought I'd ask. I read old posts about them and thought maybe things may be different now, who knows... I'm not one to pass judgement on those I don't know. I have full respect for reputable breeders and definitely think that their ethics is what must be supported here. I used to breed and campaign show dogs myself, not maltese, but I would get most of my dogs from good breeders with show dogs here in the US as well. So I know what it is to be on that side of the fence. I gave up dog showing and breeding over 15 years ago and now just want a good "pet" that's healthy and a has good pedigree. 

With regards to just getting a German Shepherd, we used to breed those too. My dad did at least when I was young. Sure they're smart dogs but I can't have one given that I live in a townhouse. We don't have space for one, which is why a maltese came to mind. I know they are bred to be companion dogs, and I'm aware this site is call SPOILED MALTESE and not OBEDIENT MALTESE, but like all dogs, maltese still need to be well behaved right? My best friend's maltese used to snap and "attack" people's ankles all the time and try ripping out your fingers if you tried playing with it which is why I din't think that allowing a dog to chew on your fingers was such a good idea. Most puppy training books I've read don't really recommend it either. As a matter of fact, this is the first time I've read that it's important to do this. Well, you learn something everyday.....thanks for letting me know, I'll keep it in mind. 

And no, I don't have a maltese yet, I'm hoping to buy one maybe next year when I'm back in the US. But I'm pretty excited and wanting to learn as much as I can from people who know the breed which is why I turned to this site. I am confused about the whole size thing cause I see so many really big malts around and want to know what a 6 pounder looks like size-wise? Maybe that is as small as I would like to go, and dont really want a 4 pounder, know what I mean? I know a maltese that is so tall, he almost comes up to my knees! His weight? I can only guess. 

So I'm sorry if any of my posts have offended anyone. Again, take note that it's been awhile since I've gotten a pup from a breeder (like I said, my one and only dog now was rehomed/rescued however you want to call it...) and back when I was buying from breeders, all the puppies really knew was how to get "stacked." It's great to hear that things are different now. Lead training, early potty pad training, the "no bark" training, these are all good and good foundations to start with. That's what I'm looking for. The "show pups" i used to get had never been introduced to a crate, or never traveled so taking them home was sometimes traumatic for them cause it was the first time they got in a car with a complete stranger. That's pretty much what I'm asking here. But on a side note, I just thought I'd ask if there were any breeders who competed in the obedience ring and sold those dogs later on. And someone mentioned about the boarding of dogs in dog training facilities? NO. I have no intention of boarding any dog in a training facility. I'd prefer to take the dog to classes so that I can train it or have private classes at home. 

So again, sorry if anyone took offense to any of my inquiries, I certainly din't mean to start upsetting anyone here. They were all pretty innocent questions getting all my "thoughts" out there and seeing what my options are.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

"With regards to shelters....like many of you, I do want to know where my future dog came from, I want to know it's lineage and I'll want one that's in good health. I'm not sure I'll be getting a lot of options with those requirements from a shelter. I could be wrong though, honestly I haven't looked much and the ones I've found look like they're in terrible health.* Vet bills can run really high and I don't think it's a good idea for what I'm looking for.*[/QUOTE]"

It is wise that you consider vet bills but there is never a guarantee w/any animal that something won't be expensive, whether or not it is a puppy or a rescue animal. 
I, too, find your expectations exaggerated. In all honesty when I read your second message I felt so upset I could not respond. I am not easily rattled. Something about it really unsettles me. Maybe it is my problem & not yours. I hope that is the case---because I can change myself but not others.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

I would suggest you find a small show breeder that lives not too far away from you. In general I think they may work harder to socialize the pups and have them be part of the family during puppyhood than a big breeder can. What will happen is that as soon as you meet your baby, you will know it is the one for you. On paper and research you can have a shopping list of things you want, but when it comes down to it your heart speaks to you. I just had a shopping list myself of things I wanted. I also like the Korean look, very hard to find frankly, but when I saw the video of my Penny Lane, I totally fell in love instantly. I just knew she was the one. Talk to the breeders you are interested in and get an idea what they do and develop a relationship. Remember there are no guarantees, but buying an older pup will make it easier looks, size and temperament wise. 

Yes for sure the Maltese can be well housetrained and obedient, (and of course spoiled) LOL the Maltese in general are more babyish than other dogs I find though. More high maintenance. I am in a good position for it myself, but if you have less time and want a slightly more independent dog then have you looked at the Bichon Frise at all? My last dog was a Bichon and she was a lot more laid back, bomb proof type of dog. I hear that from others too, so not just her, also the ones we meet going out. Still small but not as small as the Maltese. Stockier and sturdier. Less baby, but still bred to be a lapdog. My bichon was definitely shorter than my knee. Going bichon choose smaller. 


Size wise, my Lola is 8 1/2 lbs she is still a very little dog IMO. Her height is from the ground to the top of her back, only 10" she does have bigger bones though, but still has luxating patella so no guarantees there. Sitting down the top of her head still only comes about 2/3 up my calf, so not even close to my knee, and I am short.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

bianx8 said:


> Hey guys, i think you all completely misunderstood where I am coming from here. I am not expecting to buy a puppy that already knows how to sit and heel and stay....although if there was an older dog that needed rehoming who was already trained-- that wouldn't be so bad now, would it? Where I am from, you don't expect breeders to have socialized their puppies. Their puppies pretty much live in a crate and learn how to soil their own space cause they're never taken out and do not have a clue what a potty pad is. Most breeders I know of back home merely care to have a beautiful puppy with good pedigrees and will make good show dogs and good breeding stock or studs. I'm not after a "show dog". I want a well behaved pet. Not that they can't be one and the same but it helps when the puppies at a young age are already socialized, have good interaction with people, grows up in a loving home etc etc.
> 
> I have NOTHING against rescued dogs either. As a matter of fact, the only dog I have IS A RESCUED DOG who I took in at 4 1/2 months. He learned that it was OK to soil his own crate, was never taken out of his cage, has a luxating patella that needs to be operated on, is a kidney former and has had to be confined for surgery twice cause of this, but after months of working with him, he is a good dog who I LOVE dearly and wouldn't trade for the world. So yes, rescued dogs are wonderful. But the few I've seen online recently are all sick with something and like most of us, this time around I just want a healthy pet....isn't that one of the reasons we should only buy from a reputable breeder in the first place? To avoid health problems and heartache?
> 
> ...




Thank you for your explanations! I'm sorry you felt the need to have to justify your comments.

I can't speak for all breeders but I can speak for myself - I only have 1-2 litters a year so if I'm so overwhelmed that i can't properly socialize those litters, I need to rethink how and why I am doing this. At 12 weeks though, I cannot guarantee anything regarding being potty trained- although I can say that my puppies know what a potty pad is for - they just may choose to not use it and that is up to the new owner to work with them. I have puppies that are 10 weeks old right now and when they are let out to potty, they are zipping all over the place so it's very difficult to keep track of them all and make the necessary corrections when they pee next to the pad instead of on it. I could let them out one at a time but the others get so upset that one is out and not them and they can be loud in their displeasure, so I let them all out together with the adults. As far as keeping puppies penned - this is the absolute safest place for them and i won't be making any changes there! 

Which region are you located in? That may help to know if you're looking for a breeder in your area. As you know, having show dogs and breeding is a different mindset than being a pet owner so what may seem 'cruel' to some, is really a way that a breeder can make sure their dogs stay safe and protected. You can't a successful breeding/show program with only one or two dogs - it requires more than that. Esp. if you are breeding for your next show dog and not just to have puppies to sell for profit. 

I am sure you know this, but when calling breeders about puppies, be careful about wording your expectations. Dont' put them on the hot seat where they feel they have to 'defend' their breeding program and dogs. Also know that many show breeders are not breeding for the 'extreme babydoll' head but are breeding for a more moderate head/face that is described in the maltese standard. 

Here is a good thread to read
http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/56-breeders/97845-maltese-breeders-how-find-evaulate.html
(Shonshine Acres still has more red flags than I would feel comfortable with if I was purchasing a pet )


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## bianx8 (Jun 19, 2011)

@ Bellaratamaltese: Thank you for your suggestions. I'm usually in California and have contacted quite a few breeders around the area--from show breeders to rescues/shelters and all. Some of them actually do what you do which is great! I don't feel like my expectations were too high at all. Just higher than what I expect from puppies back home (I live in Asia). But there were a few that offered me "older pups" in the 6-8 month or older range (because I was considering an older pup/ adult dog as well) that never really did the pee pad thing and other basic stuff that you said you do. Some sellers/ shelters were straightforward and said off the bat that their dogs din't like kids, or had this illness or that. Just many things I'd have to consider in an older dog that has already some behavioral traits formed. At 12 weeks, no, I do not expect that the pup be potty pad trained at all. But to tell you honestly, when I tried looking this year, I never came across a pup that was just 12 weeks old. They were usually older. And no, I never ever put a breeder in the hot seat about their breeding program. Whenever I've contacted one, it's usually to commend them on how great I think their dogs and program is. I haven't/ wouldn't contact one that I have any doubts on. 

@ SilverHaven: Yes, again thanks for this suggestion. I've been doing that cause I thought I'd be able to get a pup/dog this time around. I'm in California 2 months every year so my window is small. Unfortunately, it dint work out so I'll need to wait till next year. I know exactly what you mean about "finding the right one". That's why I would rather see/visit the puppy beforehand and choose the one that feels right. I know myself, I will fall in love with ANY and EVERY. In my life (especially when I was really young) I've opened my heart and home to creatures and dogs of all shapes and sizes--from the cutest, most pedigreed, to the most neglected and in need. I am a dog lover through and through and I'm not worried that I will not love whatever comes my way. And yes, every dog that's entered my life was spoiled rotten. But now that I have a family and live in a smaller space, I have to consider their choices and ideals as well and if I get an older pup or adult dog, I'd have to consider their temperaments cause it's more set at that age. You know, I just met a malt in the dog park yesterday that sounds like the same type as your Lola. The owners were so friendly we chatted for awhile. He was also short and stocky and was 8 plus pounds, maybe 9. They said their good friend has a female that was of equal height, maybe shorter in body length if at all but was only 4 lbs! So I guess the whole weight thing doesn't really matter much in relation to the size and I know there is never a guarantee on this. Many of the malts I've been seeing seems so much bigger/taller than the little 8 pounder yesterday so I suppose my basis of the "standard" size was a bit off. No I've never considered a Bichon but I really much prefer the look and size of the Maltese. 

And @ Edelweiss: I'm sorry if I rattled you in any way, I certainly dint mean to. But yes, I have to consider the health of the dog I'm getting. I currently have a Norwich who I adopted knowing he had a bad knee. He walks with 3 legs and my vet said that he'd be a good candidate for surgery when he reaches maturity. He is mature now but hasn't undergone the surgery yet cause he had to go through 3 others for his kidneys and one to neuter in his young life of 1 1/2 years. He walks fine on 3 legs so it wasn't a priority given the more immediate concerns and now has to be on a special prescription diet for life. Aside from him, I have a senior schnauzer who resides where I used to live with my mom. She's blind as a bat, has had 2 operations on her eyes the past 2 years alone, is deaf, and has had multiple operations for tumors on her breast, the last one just 3 weeks ago. She's got cancer and given that she's already 14 years old, is pretty much on her last legs. So, I think that if I decided to adopt the 1 maltese I found in a shelter who has some chronic skin problem and another sort of disease (i forgot what it was), I may in fact be putting my other dogs in danger. I also wouldn't be able to obtain a clean bill of health in time for me to take it home with me. So yes, it would've been unwise for me to go for that dog given the situation. I know that getting a puppy from a good breeder is no guarantee as well but I'm more confident that it will be in a healthier state than getting in other places. And at least there are health guarantees for congenital diseases for a year. I'm sorry if you find it unsettling that I'd be concerned about this but as much as I love my vet, I surely don't enjoy seeing her for emergencies so often these past few years. I agree 100% that sheltered dogs CAN make wonderful pets. I've also seen the complete opposite side of the spectrum. My good friends adopted pom from a shelter in Hong Kong has so many behavioral issues that he keeps attacking her 1 year old toddler. He's already bitten him a few times and they've tried every sort of training method on him. So as you can see, you can only expect so much no matter where you get your dogs from. But I take the care of my dogs VERY seriously and all my dogs lead a very good, very spoiled life. I don't see why you'd be so rattled. Sorry if I upset you that much.


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## lisaj1354 (Aug 9, 2010)

Pepper is a rescue. 

He was born in a puppy mill and rescued at about 1 year old, rarely having had any contact with people.

His foster mother is the one who taught him his manners. And what fabulous manners they are. He sits, stays, is house trained. He plays with joy, and yes - occasionally "chews" on my fingers. And when I saw chews, he has a soft mouth, so he never bites down. He also jumps on my head when I lay down, barks at my boyfriend, and will chase his treat ball all night long if I let him. 

He is imperfect. He is fabulous.

You are missing out on all kinds of fabulous dogs because of your assumptions and requirements, and frankly, I think the dogs might be better off. Your standards are impossible and no potential pet would ever be able to be your "perfect" dog.

Pepper is perfect - for me.


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## Chalex (Feb 19, 2010)

If you're looking for a well sociallized puppy, I think you're wise. If you're looking for a trained puppy, you're not going to find it. When I got Preston at 6 months old he was not well socialized, or socialized at all. I wish he was. He's been constant, full time work but you get out of a dog what you put into him. I'm typically with him 22 hours a day. He gets nothing for free (he must "sit" or "down" for any nibble he gets). He's the sweetest thing in the world to our family. Not so great with strangers, but he's a work in progress.


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## ariamaltese (May 10, 2005)

Hi - Bianca A, isn't it?

I believe you reached out to me in CA, along with some of the other show breeder friends I know well in CA. It's very interesting, your post. Mostly, because in the post I believe you sent me you were very focused on specific looks, faces of the dogs and also literally how short legged or not the Maltese puppy would be - in addition if this is your email to me (pretty sure, as it is stated you are from the Phillipines only come here twice a year and your name on SM is Bianx8) the emphasis was on a "beautiful dog" with a "good pedigree" and thicker silk coat. Perhaps it is all some odd coincidence, not sure?

I have to be honest, if this is in fact you and your post above seems to have a bias against show breeders, why are you contacting so many show breeders in CA? Just curious. I believe it is important to understand the Maltese world - particularly show dog Maltese world is a very, very small one. We as small show breeders work incredibly hard and through great sacrifice and emotional consequence endeavor to take very seriously the sterwardship of the Maltese breed, which of course would include the general socialization of Maltese puppies.

While I do believe your topic has merit from a discussion perspective, it is curious to me there is an undertone of show breeder malcontent and even more surprising to me is if you are the person who contacted several CA show breeders and only visit here 2x a year from Asia, why in the world you would then shift gears to Sonshine Acres - Google this entity and educate yourself on their program.

Good luck to you in your future search.

Heidi
www.AriaMaltese.com


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## bianx8 (Jun 19, 2011)

Hmm, I don't know where I ever said I was looking for the "perfect" dog or puppy here? But like all pet/ dog buyers, you have certain things you may be looking for in a dog right? If you wanted one for protection or act as a guard dog, you wouldn't choose the puppy that cowers between your legs or was scared of everything that moves. If you were an old person who was looking for a lap dog, picking a hyper active terrier that needed a lot of exercise may not be the wisest one to choose. If you had a family with kids who loved to cuddle dogs, you wouldn't choose the dog who you know was terrified and snapped at kids. And I mean, snapped and bit down hard, not just gently chewed on your finger. 

@ lisaj1354: Like your Pepper, my Norwich is a rescue dog as well. He came from a puppy mill, never socialized with other dogs and humans and lived behind bars forced to eliminate in his small quarters. He went from pet store to pet store, but no one wanted him cause he was lame. His leg was getting worse too cause of his living conditions. I took him in an instant and brought him back to health. Now he's got 2 full time nannies dedicated to him alone that watch him and play with him and take him out for walks whenever I'm not home. He has a wonderful vet who cares for him whenever he has problems with his health. He gets special homemade treats made especially for him weekly and he eats and lives like a king. Yes, he is very spoiled and very loved and cared for. To say that the dogs I get may as well be "better off" had I not gotten them just cause of certain requirements certainly doesn't apply to this case. And it didn't apply to my Labrador as well who's litter mates all died within a year after birth because of their living conditions and lack of care they received from their breeder and new owners. Had I not taken him from the island I adopted him in, he would've also suffered from a terrible case of mange that infected all the dogs in the island and he would've died. Today, he is a happy, healthy dog full of life. I don't feel the need to defend myself here or the care, dedication and love i give my pets. Like Chalex's Preston, my Norwich is a work in progress, but that's fine. And I love him even if he sometimes refuses to come when called and makes me chase him across the field and roadside while 8 months pregnant because he'd rather catch a cat. He's still the best dog in my eyes and I love him for all he's brought to my life! I also dont feel the need to defend what I would like to look for in my future baby, whether it be good health, or the lack of inherent behaviors and temperaments that are difficult to correct and live with. Or if I ask that they are introduced to a crate or socialized beforehand. It would make it easier on the dog, and not just for me, given that they will be around lots of people, other dogs and will need to be in a crate when I take it back home. I've spoken to a few breeders who do it anyways for every puppy so I don't think this is a "tall order" or "impossible" by any standard. So you may have misunderstood me somewhere. 
@ Chalex: Your little Preston melts the heart....good luck with him!  Your story reminds me of my little one as well but luckily my Perry now loves strangers and everyone loves him! 
Anyways, i know I will be crazy about whichever pup enters my life when the time comes. And I look forward to it with much excitement. And like all the maltese in this forum, it too shall be a SPOILED malt no matter where it comes from ♥♥♥


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Bianca, I can't speak for others but I personally felt that some of your statements were judgmental in a negative way towards breeders ... making me feel as though your impression of most Maltese breeders is that we care far more about the physical traits and far less about the psychological traits of the puppies we breed. As breeders we are, of course, financially invested in our dogs. But like owners, we are first and foremost emotionally invested in our dogs. To read statements such as *'I know, it was pretty clueless on her part, but not many breeders I suppose may be conscious of what "puppy manners" is and they should instill given they keep them till they're 12 weeks old.' *and *'does anybody know of good show breeders that will make the effort to do early puppy training on the pups they will eventually place as "pets"?' *left me feeling that you see those of us who are breeders as stupid and lazy. Quite frankly, that hurts. While breeders may raise their puppies one way in your country, that does not mean that breeders all over the world are raising their puppies that same way.


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## CharmingDior (May 19, 2011)

*My 2 cents*

Hello,

Welcome to SM and I hope you continue to stay as you search for your new companion:chili:. I am relatively new here as well, but spend most of my time browsing through threads and such. I have seen many of your threads but decided to keep quiet until now. I understand that you have been researching and I encourage you to continue doing so. Reading old threads sometimes answer many questions both vital and trivial, vague and specific. I have owned 2 maltese and I am still learning and relearning things. Maltese just have a presence about them that demands attention and all the love in the world. I will try to elaborate in a manner that is not offensive nor off-putting so please be patient with me.:innocent:

The ladies and gents here are very kind and giving with their advice and support! They will help you in every way they know possible.

With that being said, I am confused. Maybe the others have a better understanding of where you are coming from but I'm a little slow at catching on I suppose. To get on a loving forum such as SM, informing us you used to be a breeder and handler, and have also conducted research on the breed we all love so dearly; yet, to still ask about a breeder who blatantly sells "teacups and baby doll faces"... I just don't get it. I guess with all of the background you have I would just expect for you to see the flags, esp. since the ongoing battles you are experiencing with your rescues. Some might think there are some ill intentions behind such a post; whatever it may be. (I do not believe and I really hope that wasn't your intention.) Unfortunately, words leave it up to the reader for the interpretation and not the writer. That is just something I have learned in my short time here. Sure, we all want to give breeders and their programs a benefit of a doubt but, I just googled the website and from the first available puppy I can see the red flags and that is something you have to be mindful of. If the website doesn't feel right then the breeder probably isn't. 

In all of your original posts you seem to be very specific and set on your guidelines/requirements for your new addition. As many have mentioned before me, you should reevaluate your mindset, as I see you have already began. No matter what age your fluff is you have to be willing to train, guide, correct, and encourage proper behavior otherwise, getting a pet just may not be for you in this current stage of life. I do not mean to beat a dead horse and I really hope you grasp the sincere meaning of this post. You are always welcome to ask questions and get feedback here. Just be careful of the people who don't care about this awesome breed and all the other breeds in the world!

No friend of my dog is no friend of MINE!B)

Hope you find your maltese match!


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## CharmingDior (May 19, 2011)

*Clarity*



bianx8 said:


> _Hmm, I don't know where I ever said I was looking for the "perfect" dog or puppy here? _But like all pet/ dog buyers, you have certain things you may be looking for in a dog right? If you wanted one for protection or act as a guard dog, you wouldn't choose the puppy that cowers between your legs or was scared of everything that moves. If you were an old person who was looking for a lap dog, picking a hyper active terrier that needed a lot of exercise may not be the wisest one to choose. If you had a family with kids who loved to cuddle dogs, you wouldn't choose the dog who you know was terrified and snapped at kids. _And I mean, snapped and bit down hard, not just gently chewed on your finger. _
> 
> @ lisaj1354: Like your Pepper, my Norwich is a rescue dog as well. He came from a puppy mill, never socialized with other dogs and humans and lived behind bars forced to eliminate in his small quarters. He went from pet store to pet store, but no one wanted him cause he was lame. His leg was getting worse too cause of his living conditions. I took him in an instant and brought him back to health. Now he's got 2 full time nannies dedicated to him alone that watch him and play with him and take him out for walks whenever I'm not home. He has a wonderful vet who cares for him whenever he has problems with his health. He gets special homemade treats made especially for him weekly and he eats and lives like a king. Yes, he is very spoiled and very loved and cared for. To say that the dogs I get may as well be _"better off"_had I not gotten them just cause of certain requirements certainly doesn't apply to this case. And it didn't apply to my Labrador as well who's litter mates all died within a year after birth because of their living conditions and lack of care they received from their breeder and new owners. Had I not taken him from the island I adopted him in, he would've also suffered from a terrible case of mange that infected all the dogs in the island and he would've died. Today, he is a happy, healthy dog full of life. I don't feel the need to defend myself here or the care, dedication and love i give my pets. Like Chalex's Preston, my Norwich is a work in progress, but that's fine. And I love him even if he sometimes refuses to come when called and makes me chase him across the field and roadside while 8 months pregnant because he'd rather catch a cat. He's still the best dog in my eyes and I love him for all he's brought to my life! I also dont feel the need to defend what I would like to look for in my future baby, whether it be good health, or the lack of inherent behaviors and temperaments that are difficult to correct and live with. Or if I ask that they are introduced to a crate or socialized beforehand. It would make it easier on the dog, and not just for me, given that they will be around lots of people, other dogs and will need to be in a crate when I take it back home. I've spoken to a few breeders who do it anyways for every puppy so I don't think this is a "tall order" or "impossible" by any standard. So you may have misunderstood me somewhere.
> @ Chalex: Your little Preston melts the heart....good luck with him!  Your story reminds me of my little one as well but luckily my Perry now loves strangers and everyone loves him!
> Anyways, i know I will be crazy about whichever pup enters my life when the time comes. And I look forward to it with much excitement. *And like all the maltese in this forum, it too shall be a SPOILED malt no matter where it comes from ♥♥♥*


I do believe I can perhaps provide some sort of clarity towards the situation. 

The reason some may believe you are looking for the "perfect dog," although that is not the exact terms you expressed, your expectations seemed like that of perfection. You wanted a dog well socialized, not too tall nor big, not too small either, a puppy that doesn't chew on fingers, a puppy that already has obedience, etc. Most people when looking for a pet wants a dog that is not aggressive, nor too dominant, nor too submissive, with an even temperament. I think I can speak for everyone who wants a healthy dog, be it from rescues, shelters, or breeders. We all want to know the pup was well socialized and not easily frightened from everyday household noises. We can probably go further and say a dog that doesn't bark too much, comes completely house trained, and potty trained. (House trained being not chewing on cords, couch, tables, shoes, etc.) But the reality of the situation is they are puppies. And even the adults dogs can't get it right all the time. They must learn and be corrected and guided and over time with flaws and all they will learn more of what they should do and forget more of what they shouldn't. But when you began posting threads about all of your expectations and making generalized statements about breeders... it can be taken offensively and some may say, "WOW, she wants a super puppy!". As I mentioned in my above post, people want to help you. But, you have to be careful to the wording of your posts as well. They are here for all to read and can be intrepreted in many different ways. Can't help my understanding just like I can't help yours. 

You keep mentioning this maltese of your friend who bites fingers. You have to consider the lineage, temperment, breeder, history, and age appropriate training of the dog. If the dog had never been taught that snapping is not okay then they won't know any better. A snapping puppy grows into a snapping adult. If the dog has been abused in the past that could also be it. But, it would be wise to not take one situation and use it to generalize a broader group. 

Honestly, based off of your original posts and your questions, I wouldn't have thought you owned a dog at all, nor bred them at one point in time. (sorry) But the most important thing is no matter where you get your dog, or whether or not is a maltese at all, that they are spoiled and loved unconditionally. And I am pleased to hear you take care of your little king so well...I do not believe anyone was bringing that into question! 

Although, I have come to clarify I am still questioning something myself.
*Why would you contact top tier breeders such as Aria in CA and then come and ask about Sonshine Acres?*
They are a lot left and right if you ask me.


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## bianx8 (Jun 19, 2011)

Hi charming dior! Sigh...I regret ever asking about Sonshine Acres on this site! To tell you honestly, I came across them while I was looking through maltese pictures through google. I clicked on a pup I thought was cute and it opened to a bigger pic with a watermark of “Sonshine “ I think, and a short paragraph description of the kennel on the side. It said they’ve been breeding maltese to akc standards for show and pet for (I think) 10 years? I can’t remember. Nothing in the description said they bred “teacups.” However it did say “baby doll faces with black points and compact” or something like that. To someone who has no prior knowledge about maltese, I din’t suspect “babydoll face” to be a marketing ploy, like “teacup” is. I thought it was a description of the look of their puppies and quite frankly, I think all malt puppies look like ”baby dolls,” “teddy bears,” and “poofy white cotton furballs”. I googled their site sometime after but nothing showed up. It wasn’t till later on that I realized that my device auto-corrected it to “Sunshine Maltese” instead of “Sonshine”. I din’t notice. I just thought they were breeders without an actual website and only advertised themselves on that particular site I found. I know not every reputable breeder out there has a website so I din’t think anything of it. So when I got on SM, I searched and found the link to an issue years ago about some DNA thing. I believe someone in that thread also couldn’t believe that the breeder would do that cause she knew of them. Anyway, I never opened the links to the findings, I just thought I’d ask the forum if this was an issue that cleared up because I thought they bred puppies for show as well. Innocent mistake. I thought it wouldn’t hurt to inquire, but apparently it does! When I finally saw their actual website, yes, I was alarmed. If you are wondering why I even bothered with the picture link, its because I also found similar breeder directory portals that had breeders of all kinds—from top show breeders, to perhaps BYBs and alike—searchable by area/state. I haven’t really been on the market for a puppy here in the US in over 15 years—the last time there was still no internet-- so I hadn’t a clue where to begin looking. And take note that I din’t know much about Maltese until my kids and I became interested maybe about a month ago. So this is all very new to me and I’m learning everyday.
The reason why I ask for one “not too big or not too small” is cause I see so many over sized ones I tend to think of as part of the “standard.” Maybe they’re mixed, I’m not sure but I can’t tell off the bat if this Malt is a 6 pounder, 4 pounder, 8 pounder or what. My brothers Malt was so tiny as a puppy but has grown so tall, he’s almost like a havanese! So when I ask for one that’s “not too big, or too small” I’m probably looking at the actual standard size. That’s not being overly specific. I din’t say, “it has to be 8 inches, exactly 5 lbs, with eyes that are this wide set that sits and heels and comes when called at 12 weeks old.” My daughter has that. It came with a remote and we bought it at Toys “r” Us. Like many buyers, I was just concerned with the temperament and the socialization of the pup. My mistake was to use the word “trained” which was misconstrued on this thread. I was wondering if anyone knew of breeders that did “early puppy training” I think which really, most of the show breeders do. It involved proper socialization, maybe a bit of potty pad training as well. When I asked I only knew of 3 breeders (including Aria) and I wanted more suggestions like them. I did indeed consider an older dog as well cause I will ship it home with me and I wanted to make sure it was big enough for the flight. So with an older dog in mind, I would have to take into considerations their inherent behaviors and things they may have learned to do, or not learned to do as a puppy. Some show breeders may also do agility/ obedience performance as well and may place retired dogs to good homes. I was interested to know if there were those breeders as well. It’s a pretty legitimate assumption given that many show dogs do well in other arenas also aside from the show ring but Bellarata Maltese did say that most showbreeders here do not do that, so great, I take their word for it. Someone mentioned that there are plenty great adult pets in shelters that are already housebroken, some may be trained that need homes so I had a look and I dint find any suitable ones cause they were either sick with something, not suitable for a home with other pets, or not suitable with kids. I most certainly wish my future bundle of joy comes from a reputable breeder, but I have no bias against shelters. My heart is open to them.
And to clarify a comment of Mary H—NO I HAVE NO BIAS AGAINST REPUTABLE BREEDERS as well. The so-called “breeders” I’ve come across recently that I thought made no effort on their dogs I’ve come to realize weren’t even the actual breeders but sellers/brokers if you call it that. Some may have been mills or BYBs, I don’t know. So they knew nothing about the dogs and puppies they were selling. I found them through the same directory listings and google sites as top reputable breeders and based on the little descriptions I read of each, some with and without websites, weeding out the bad ones is a bit hard. I contacted some by phone, some by email, some were great and helpful, some were not. I was also referring to past experiences I had with a few breeders in my country. Not ALL but some. Now I’ve learned that there is a right and wrong way to find a puppy here. And with regards to ARIA maltese, I think their dogs are truly something special. And I did express that to Heidi cause her pups were unbelievably lovable. As were all the other pups I saw from other reputable breeders! If I let temptation get the better of me, I would’ve wanted to take home every pup that was being offered cause they were gorgeous and I knew that their breeders took loving care of them and I was confident about them. And really with a heavy heart I needed to turn away this time around cause of reasons totally unrelated to the actual dogs themselves. 
And to respond to your comment on my friends pup who snapped. Yes I’m sure lineage, puppyhood traumas, maybe lack of socialization as a puppy, lack of correction all played a part in that behavior which is exactly what I would like to avoid in an older dog. That’s all.
So I hope through this extremely lengthy post that I clarified whatever needed to be clarified. Yes, I will continue with my search as I would sooo love to one day have a little white fluff ball to call my own. I’ve apologized many times on this thread for any misunderstandings and I’ll do it again now-- Sorry if I offended anyone here. And if anyone doubts my sincerity and dedication as a buyer and pet owner all cause of an innocent mistake of inquiring about a certain breeder, then sorry. Right now, I just want to move on and put this whole thing to rest. I am confident that whichever puppy I choose to bring into my life in the future will be thoroughly loved and cared for and will bring a lot of joy into my family’s life and really-- that’s all that matters to me. Right now, I just want to move on and put this whole thing to rest.


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

Sonshine Acres has never and I mean never shown their dogs. Their dogs do not meet the standard for showing. It's too bad they have to say that to get sales. Look at this link: THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SHOW AND PET This breeder is the same level as Sonshine Acres. 
Maltese come in all different sizes and shapes. The preferred size is between 4 lbs and 7 lbs. They can have short legs, long legs and in between legs. The heads on Maltese can vary a lot. Coats vary a lot. 

I've met up with different breeders at the airport many times. Show breeders who are truly showing their Maltese and "breeders" have a very different attitude when it comes to breeding Maltese and selling Maltese. I live in Kansas so I have to ship Maltese to new owners. It's very eye opening to new people coming into Maltese. To truly show a Maltese is *very *challenging. Not everyone can do it. So the average Maltese "breeder" likes to say they have show quality Maltese. They don't. They might not even know what a show quality Maltese really looks like. 
When I first started showing dogs and at my first dog show I had my eyes opened when I realized that dogs who I thought I knew, Rotweilers, beagles, Doberman and so on did not completely resemble what I thought they "looked" like. 
Any way that is why it probably seems that everyone is being snobby and pointing out that those breeders are not what they seem. JMO


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Tina said:


> Sonshine Acres has never and I mean never shown their dogs. Their dogs do not meet the standard for showing. It's too bad they have to say that to get sales. Look at this link: THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SHOW AND PET This breeder is the same level as Sonshine Acres.
> Maltese come in all different sizes and shapes. The preferred size is between 4 lbs and 7 lbs. They can have short legs, long legs and in between legs. The heads on Maltese can vary a lot. Coats vary a lot.
> 
> I've met up with different breeders at the airport many times. Show breeders who are truly showing their Maltese and "breeders" have a very different attitude when it comes to breeding Maltese and selling Maltese. I live in Kansas so I have to ship Maltese to new owners. It's very eye opening to new people coming into Maltese. To truly show a Maltese is *very *challenging. Not everyone can do it. So the average Maltese "breeder" likes to say they have show quality Maltese. They don't. They might not even know what a show quality Maltese really looks like.
> ...



Tina, I agree with this!

Many non-show breeders think that a cute face = show quality. I beg to differ. I agree with you that from the pics, Moriah was not competitive show quality but I am sure she made a wonderful pet. 

I also want to say that there is no automatic 'show quality' vs. 'not show quality.' As long as a dog has full akc registration, he/she can be shown. It doesn't meant that the dog will be competitive though. As Tina said, showing and breeding nice dogs and being successful can be very difficult. I am someone who came onto this forum 5 years ago as a clueless pet owner with my very first maltese puppy. Fast forward 5 years, and my 12 yr old daughter is showing her second maltese special who is the #2 male in the country right now (breed points) and has shown two dogs to their grand championships this year. Even with how much I've learned this past few years, I still wouldn't feel comfortable evaluating and selling a puppy for show, there is just still too much I don't know.

But I am always amazed how non-show breeders can sell dogs for show and I always feel bad for the unsuspecting buyers. 

Bianca, thank you for your explanation!! Don't you hate autocorrect sometimes???


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

Hi Bianca and Welcome to Spoiled Maltese! I just wanted to wish you luck in your search for the perfect Maltese and make a suggestion: since you mentioned you live in Asia and only travel to California 2x per year and in another thread mentioned you love the look of Shinemore and Sunnydale pups, why don't you contact them instead of acquiring a Maltese in the US, only to have to travel back to Asia with the pup? It seems like that might be the easiest solution for you. BTW, I love the look of Shinemore and Sunnydales pups, too.


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## maltaangel (Nov 20, 2005)

Hi SM people. There are a lot of good points made during this thread. I only have a couple I would like to add. Pictures are "stolen" and used by others all the time. Almost anything can be made to look perfect in pictures. Interpretation is different from person to person (baby-doll to one may not be to another, small, big, etc.) There is no perfect dog - but all deserve love, care and affection and they give back 110% no matter what they look like. God love'em.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

OMG, is this really Sheila Riley posting on Spoiled Maltese?? LOL!! Hi Sheila!! It's so nice to see you here. I really hope with all your knowledge and experience that this won't be your first, last and only post!! :welcome1:


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## bianx8 (Jun 19, 2011)

Hi Tami, Tina and Bellarata Maltese:

i was almost scared to open this forum again for fear I'd get a barrage of messages reminding me of my newbie mistakes. If 5 years of maltese showing experience still has you learning and learning about the breed, then 1 month of never having seen a show maltese ever, are really baby steps for me. Although I no longer have the desire to show or breed, having a pup from a good breeder will just ease my mind about the quality I'm getting. That said, Im sure wonderful pets come from everywhere and anywhere and luckily, this is what I'm after. I admire you guys cause to show dogs and breed show dogs successfully for as long as you have takes more than love and dedication. It's a real passion for the breed and it's because of you, that there are beautiful specimens out there for the rest of us to admire and dream about one day ever having. Yes, in cyberspace it can be very difficult to distinguish the good, the bad and the ugly sometimes. Especially for a breed where, even the not so well-bred, look adorable. Know what I mean? 
I saw the Sunnydale and Shinemore sites but frankly, if I'm already having a hard time decoding breeders sites in plain english, korean is A LOT MORE DAUNTING! But they seem to be good breeders. And honestly I never even tried searching back home cause the idea of getting a malt only popped into my head after arriving here in the US. Who knows? Maybe my next baby will come from Asia......

I will check out the book recommendation, it sounds interesting. Thanks for the advise! 

Oh and yes, auto-correct is a funny thing. I've gotten myself into crazy predicaments with auto correct text messages. This isn't the same thing but it's one for the books.

Best, 
Bianca


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## bianx8 (Jun 19, 2011)

Hi Sheila, 

I open your email almost everyday and sniff with a frown when I look at the girls. I'm sure pups such as them sell in a heartbeat and with those faces, they're sure to be loved.
I've heard about pics being stolen too. Just one more thing for buyers to think about I suppose. Makes me wish my next door neighbor had a pair of wonderful malts and had a litter waiting for me! 
If only life were that simple.....sigh.....then again if it were, we may not appreciate what we have. 

Godspeed to you!


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## maltaangel (Nov 20, 2005)

MaryH said:


> OMG, is this really Sheila Riley posting on Spoiled Maltese?? LOL!! Hi Sheila!! It's so nice to see you here. I really hope with all your knowledge and experience that this won't be your first, last and only post!! :welcome1:


LOL :ThankYou:


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

maltaangel said:


> Hi SM people. There are a lot of good points made during this thread. I only have a couple I would like to add. Pictures are "stolen" and used by others all the time. Almost anything can be made to look perfect in pictures. Interpretation is different from person to person (baby-doll to one may not be to another, small, big, etc.) There is no perfect dog - but all deserve love, care and affection and they give back 110% no matter what they look like. God love'em.


Welcome Sheila, so many speak so highly of you on here


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## CharmingDior (May 19, 2011)

*Thanks for the Explanation...*

I was only trying to clarify what some people from the earlier pages might have thought. The most important thing that I believe everyone can walk away with is a better understanding of your generous heart. Don't want you to think that you must be intimidated to post or feel that you need to defend your post. Everyone is pretty close here and we all love to spoil our munchkins...so if there is a misunderstanding then clarity usually helps the situation. Not sure if I made the situation worse but I sure hope I didn't make you feel bad. :wub:

Thank you for being so kind!


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

Welcome, Sheila! :Welcome 3:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

maltaangel said:


> Hi SM people. There are a lot of good points made during this thread. I only have a couple I would like to add. Pictures are "stolen" and used by others all the time. Almost anything can be made to look perfect in pictures. Interpretation is different from person to person (baby-doll to one may not be to another, small, big, etc.) There is no perfect dog - but all deserve love, care and affection and they give back 110% no matter what they look like. God love'em.


:cheer::cheer::celebrate - firewor:celebrate - firewor:Welcome 4::happy::happy::happy:
Kitzel sends kisses to Sheila!
So, so happy to see you here!
:wub:


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