# AKC Plans for new registry



## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

AKC is a registry and this enables them to make more money registering more dogs. I'm really not happy
about this at all. Why not have all those little programs without AKC ID for mixed breeds? I'd like to hear
an upside to this.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Apr 20 2009, 12:23 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=765094


> On the surface this appears to be good until one realizes it only will encourage breeding mixed breed dogs. [/B]


I don't understand why you think this is going to encourage the breeding of mixed breed dogs. This is supposed to open the performance events to mixed breed dogs as is done by UKC. As I understand it they are simply allowing people to get a special registration number (kinda like the ILP) and use that to register to do AKC agility, obedience, rally and tracking type events. They are not talking about encouraging people to cross-breed. I think it is a way for AKC to make money, but it is not about creating a stud-book for mixed breeds.


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

QUOTE (CloudClan @ Apr 19 2009, 10:15 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=765103


> QUOTE (Starsmom @ Apr 20 2009, 12:23 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=765094





> On the surface this appears to be good until one realizes it only will encourage breeding mixed breed dogs. [/B]


I don't understand why you think this is going to encourage the breeding of mixed breed dogs. This is supposed to open the performance events to mixed breed dogs as is done by UKC. As I understand it they are simply allowing people to get a special registration number (kinda like the ILP) and use that to register to do AKC agility, obedience, rally and tracking type events. They are not talking about encouraging people to cross-breed. I think it is a way for AKC to make money, but it is not about creating a stud-book for mixed breeds.
[/B][/QUOTE]

If I understand this plan correctly there will be AKC sanctioned events that include agility, obedience, etc. for the mixed breeds. Now when these dogs do very well owners will want to 'pass' those genes on to others - unless they are spay/neutered which has not been made a requirement - therefore encouraging breeding more mutts.
Yes, the whole thing is just a money maker for AKC.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Sounds very strange. 

My little cousin got a bichon x dachsund mix this weekend. :blink:


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Apr 20 2009, 08:31 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=765211


> QUOTE (CloudClan @ Apr 19 2009, 10:15 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=765103





> QUOTE (Starsmom @ Apr 20 2009, 12:23 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=765094





> On the surface this appears to be good until one realizes it only will encourage breeding mixed breed dogs. [/B]


I don't understand why you think this is going to encourage the breeding of mixed breed dogs. This is supposed to open the performance events to mixed breed dogs as is done by UKC. As I understand it they are simply allowing people to get a special registration number (kinda like the ILP) and use that to register to do AKC agility, obedience, rally and tracking type events. They are not talking about encouraging people to cross-breed. I think it is a way for AKC to make money, but it is not about creating a stud-book for mixed breeds.
[/B][/QUOTE]

If I understand this plan correctly there will be AKC sanctioned events that include agility, obedience, etc. for the mixed breeds. Now when these dogs do very well owners will want to 'pass' those genes on to others - unless they are spay/neutered which has not been made a requirement - therefore encouraging breeding more mutts.
Yes, the whole thing is just a money maker for AKC.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I read from the AKC site---it says they must be neutered. Hard to breed a neutered dog. B) 

If it inspires people with mixed breed rescues to teach their dogs agility, etc. and gives people more reason to take their mixed breed's health seriously it can be a good thing.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Even though the dog entered may be neutered, it doesn't mean the breeder won't breed more to
fill the desire for that type of dog. I'm all for agility, etc. I'm just not for the AKC ID thing. I'm
also disappointed AKC is willing to make money off mixed breeds now.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

actually can i ask a totally moronic question? are mixed breeds more healthy than purebred dogs if the breeder has integrity and conscientious and knows all backgrounds of all dogs well? just asking b/c i remembered that's what i heard before all the time before getting a maltese...that mutts are healthier...


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Sophia, I don't know how a mixed breed breeder (greeder) could know the lines since no reputable 
purebred dog breeder would sell a dog to be bred to another breed. Thus, most byb's who breed
mixes are getting them from other byb's or mills. WHen you mix you run the risk of doubling up
on both the issues of two breeds rather than one breed. You may hear of mixes living long healthy
lives but you don't get to see all the pups and dogs that were euthanized due to problems or
illnesses due to mixing.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

There has been a lot of discussion and a wide array of opinion in many threads here. One quite recent. In my opinion there is not a yes or no answer to that question. The whole question depends on the genetic mixture in any breeding. Any two dogs' genes in a mating, regardless of their pedigree, will have strengths or problems that are carried in their genes. 

The good thing about a pedigreed dog from a breeder with principles, who is knowledgeable about their breed and it's possible genetic diseases, is that they are trying to match animals who will improve each litter.

Dogs of any breed mixture--willy-nilly breeding--leaves a big chance of two getting together who are carrying the same genetic problem. So you say--what if a breeder who knows the pedigree and genetics of two dogs of different breeds and takes their possible problems into account, breeds the two breeds looking for an improvement? There's where I don't know. If that where to happen and they did that, breeding out defects--I can't see why that "mix" would be any "healthier" than a purebred dog with the same knowledgeable responsible technique. Maybe they would have a larger gene pool to choose from? :brownbag:


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Whether I agree with this new mixed breed program or not, my understanding is that this will open the door for mixed breed dogs and their owners to compete in companion events (obedience, agility and rally). Hooray for all the former shelter dogs who will be able to compete in events with their best friend in the whole wide world!! I can't figure out how this will promote the breeding of designer dogs since the dogs are not going to be listed as "Labradoodles" or "Maltipoos" or any other designer name. They will be competing only against other mixed breed dogs. They must be spayed/neutered. Is this new program really that much different from the AKC's ILP program? I have two Maltese with ILP numbers. We have competed in obedience and agility trials. My dogs wouldn't care one tiny little bit if they were competing against a mixed breed; they just want to run and have fun. And so what if the AKC makes money? Unlike any other registry in the country, the AKC contributes MILLIONS OF DOLLARS every year to canine health research. I'd love to meet the person who says "I bought my cute little designer dog so that I can spend money to register it and then lots more money, time and effort to train and compete in obedience, agility, or rally." Again, hooray for all the former shelter dogs who will be able to compete in events with their best friend in the whole wide world!!

MaryH


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (Cosy @ Apr 20 2009, 03:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=765309


> Sophia, I don't know how a mixed breed breeder (greeder) could know the lines since no reputable
> purebred dog breeder would sell a dog to be bred to another breed. Thus, most byb's who breed
> mixes are getting them from other byb's or mills. WHen you mix you run the risk of doubling up
> on both the issues of two breeds rather than one breed. You may hear of mixes living long healthy
> ...


There is a breeder nearby in Virginia who has Ch. lines (purchased their dogs from one of the "top teir" kennels we are always talking about on SM). This person also breeds Yorkies and sometimes advertises Morkies. Yes, reputable breeders try to prevent this sort of thing, but it does happen. 

QUOTE (MaryH @ Apr 22 2009, 12:49 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766064


> Whether I agree with this new mixed breed program or not, my understanding is that this will open the door for mixed breed dogs and their owners to compete in companion events (obedience, agility and rally). Hooray for all the former shelter dogs who will be able to compete in events with their best friend in the whole wide world!! I can't figure out how this will promote the breeding of designer dogs since the dogs are not going to be listed as "Labradoodles" or "Maltipoos" or any other designer name. They will be competing only against other mixed breed dogs. They must be spayed/neutered. Is this new program really that much different from the AKC's ILP program? I have two Maltese with ILP numbers. We have competed in obedience and agility trials. My dogs wouldn't care one tiny little bit if they were competing against a mixed breed; they just want to run and have fun. And so what if the AKC makes money? Unlike any other registry in the country, the AKC contributes MILLIONS OF DOLLARS every year to canine health research. I'd love to meet the person who says "I bought my cute little designer dog so that I can spend money to register it and then lots more money, time and effort to train and compete in obedience, agility, or rally." Again, hooray for all the former shelter dogs who will be able to compete in events with their best friend in the whole wide world!!
> 
> MaryH[/B]


 :goodpost: This is what I was trying to say. 

Options have been limited for some of the performance events in the past for owners of shelter dogs. There have been several clubs that offered agility to dogs of unknown lineage, but obedience was another story. 

I am curious how this separation of "mixed-breed" peformance classes will work. I imagine clubs are trying to figure out how it will come together. As someone who once served on the board of an obedience club, I hope that this helps them to make some money off obedience. Frankly, most dog obedience clubs lose money on the obedience trials they run. I know our obedience club used the money from agility to support our obedience end of things. We always lost money on our obedience trials, but made it from our agility trials.


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## Harley & Dakotas Mum (Jun 11, 2005)

QUOTE (MaryH @ Apr 22 2009, 02:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766064


> Whether I agree with this new mixed breed program or not, my understanding is that this will open the door for mixed breed dogs and their owners to compete in companion events (obedience, agility and rally). Hooray for all the former shelter dogs who will be able to compete in events with their best friend in the whole wide world!! I can't figure out how this will promote the breeding of designer dogs since the dogs are not going to be listed as "Labradoodles" or "Maltipoos" or any other designer name. They will be competing only against other mixed breed dogs. They must be spayed/neutered. Is this new program really that much different from the AKC's ILP program? I have two Maltese with ILP numbers. We have competed in obedience and agility trials. My dogs wouldn't care one tiny little bit if they were competing against a mixed breed; they just want to run and have fun. And so what if the AKC makes money? Unlike any other registry in the country, the AKC contributes MILLIONS OF DOLLARS every year to canine health research. I'd love to meet the person who says "I bought my cute little designer dog so that I can spend money to register it and then lots more money, time and effort to train and compete in obedience, agility, or rally." Again, hooray for all the former shelter dogs who will be able to compete in events with their best friend in the whole wide world!!
> 
> MaryH[/B]



I like this perspective, a lot! The former little 'shelter mutts' get a go!!! 

Not only is training your pet time consuming, if you engage a trainer to help along the way, its dang expensive too!! That's not to mention trying to educate myself with books! I LOVE books ... but they are expensive too!! I am at the very beginning with H & D's training .... and it may, or may not work out the way I hope, but I'd LOVE for Harley to get into agility one day! and Dakota too of course, but she's got a whole stack of anxiety issues to overcome before we even THINK about going there with her! 

I am in Au, so obviously AKC doesnt apply here .... but I like this idea. Honestly, I didnt read too much into it ... 'designer breeds' didnt even occur to me? I didn't get the impression that was what it was about.


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

Hummmm.....I have to agree that in the long run, in the future, there will be an AKC registration for mixed breeds. 
Breeders will be able to register a litter of Malti-Poos and advertise AKC.

A slippery slope to make money. To me, in my opinion, this is only the beginning of "how to make more $$$".
Not now, not tomorrow but down the road.

Just a thought......breeders will be advertising their mixed litter saying " makes great agility dogs. AKC ".
It says they have to be neutered/spayed but that is after the fact.

Great debate and only my thoughts.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

QUOTE (CloudClan @ Apr 22 2009, 01:07 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766067


> :goodpost: This is what I was trying to say.
> 
> Options have been limited for some of the performance events in the past for owners of shelter dogs. There have been several clubs that offered agility to dogs of unknown lineage, but obedience was another story.
> 
> I am curious how this separation of "mixed-breed" peformance classes will work. I imagine clubs are trying to figure out how it will come together. As someone who once served on the board of an obedience club, I hope that this helps them to make some money off obedience. Frankly, most dog obedience clubs lose money on the obedience trials they run. I know our obedience club used the money from agility to support our obedience end of things. We always lost money on our obedience trials, but made it from our agility trials.[/B]


Most kennel clubs that offer obedience trials along with conformation rarely make enough money on the obedience end just to cover their expenses. For obedience only clubs hosting stand alone events it's even more grim. I'm betting that the obedience only clubs are not too unhappy with this turn of events. Since the mixed breeds will not be able to compete at anything but stand alone events, chances are in the not too distant future that obedience entries will be up and we'll see a lot more stand alone events. To some of you, all this discussion about making money may seem like we really don't care as much about the dogs as we do about money, but for those of us who train our dogs for agility, obedience and rally events, finding a club to train with is a HUGE bonus, because we get to learn from those far more experienced in the sport and because the clubs that can afford it either own or rent space to train in and pass the savings on to those who attend, making training far less costly. In my house, less money spent on training means more money spent on treats and toys. :aktion033:


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Mixed breeds have been able to compete in obedience and agility in other venues (USDAA, NADAC, CPE, APDT rally, etc.). Since that hasn't made people breed more mixes, why would adding another venue for mixed breeds? 

People who breed dogs specifically for performance (ie agility) want consistency. First generation mixes are anything but consistent. This argument does not make sense. 

Personally, I LOVE seeing CGC and rally open to John Q. Public and his shelter dog. It only encourages responsible ownership. 

Sure its a way for AKC to make money...last I checked we hadn't switched from capitalism just yet ;-)


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Some more food for thought .... AKC jumped in with an army of volunteers and a boatload of money to help dogs in need during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. How would we all feel if the AKC took the position that they were offering their volunteer services and their money only to help the purebred dogs?


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Okay, then let's ask AKC to donate their profits from IDing mixed breeds to all the rescue groups.
Sounds fair to me!


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

QUOTE (Cosy @ Apr 22 2009, 10:33 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766547


> Okay, then let's ask AKC to donate their profits from IDing mixed breeds to all the rescue groups.
> Sounds fair to me![/B]


So then all other registeries that register mixed breeds should do the same? Are they less reputable because they don't even though they've been allowing mixed breeds all along? 

Do you know about the CHF? CHIC? I don't see other registeries doing anything near as huge as AKC has with health issues.


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## chico (Mar 4, 2007)

QUOTE (JMM @ Apr 23 2009, 08:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766676


> QUOTE (Cosy @ Apr 22 2009, 10:33 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766547





> Okay, then let's ask AKC to donate their profits from IDing mixed breeds to all the rescue groups.
> Sounds fair to me![/B]


So then all other registeries that register mixed breeds should do the same? Are they less reputable because they don't even though they've been allowing mixed breeds all along? 

Do you know about the CHF? CHIC? I don't see other registeries doing anything near as huge as AKC has with health issues.
[/B][/QUOTE]

What does the AKC do that is so huge with concern to health issues?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

http://www.akcchf.org/ (including Maltese and MVD/liver shunt)

http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/


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## chico (Mar 4, 2007)

QUOTE (JMM @ Apr 23 2009, 11:09 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766744


> http://www.akcchf.org/ (including Maltese and MVD/liver shunt)
> 
> http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/[/B]


nice to have a charity like that.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (JMM @ Apr 23 2009, 08:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766676


> QUOTE (Cosy @ Apr 22 2009, 10:33 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766547





> Okay, then let's ask AKC to donate their profits from IDing mixed breeds to all the rescue groups.
> Sounds fair to me![/B]


So then all other registeries that register mixed breeds should do the same? Are they less reputable because they don't even though they've been allowing mixed breeds all along? 

Do you know about the CHF? CHIC? I don't see other registeries doing anything near as huge as AKC has with health issues.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Of course I know of CHF and CHIC. It's on the AKC website. I'm not saying they've done nothing for purebreds. I'm saying it's been about purebred dogs and that's what they register and sanction shows for. 
I'm not speaking of less reputable registeries. We don't speak highly of them here on the board so why would we expect them to donate anything?

I'm simply saying why not take the proceeds from mixed breed IDing and donate to rescue groups, as well as shelters.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

USDAA and NADAC are not less reputable registries...nor is APDT or UKC. These were my examples...not continental kennel club.

My question to you was why hold AKC to a standard no other club is held to...when they are already trying to put money into encouraging responsible pet ownership to include mixed breeds? Why must AKC do this to make including mixed breeds legitimate? I think perhaps I am not understanding what you are trying to say.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

LOL And as selfish as it is...my first thought was take the money and make my entry fees LESS!


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

And I guess I'm not understanding what you were saying. 

I was speaking of AKC itself, the richest and most influential registery in the country.

I'm all for lowering entry fees too (LOL) but I'm saying if they are going to include
mixed breeds, then isn't it also sensible to do something for them in respect to
actual physical help? Since genetic research wouldn't work too well with mixes, I thought
donating to rescues and shelters just might. Ah, well, if wishes were horses...


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I think it will be interesting to see where it goes once people start taking advantage. I guess I know that the people who will register their dogs are the ones who are going to show them and have been restricted from AKC for so long (these people have been showing in other venues)...so there will not be the huge income from registrations like with pure breeds.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (JMM @ Apr 23 2009, 01:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766824


> I think it will be interesting to see where it goes once people start taking advantage. I guess I know that the people who will register their dogs are the ones who are going to show them and have been restricted from AKC for so long (these people have been showing in other venues)...so there will not be the huge income from registrations like with pure breeds.[/B]



Oh, see I think greeders will jump at the chance to register dogs so they can use the term AKC. I hope I'm 
very wrong..


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

QUOTE (Cosy @ Apr 23 2009, 01:55 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766829


> Oh, see I think greeders will jump at the chance to register dogs so they can use the term AKC. I hope I'm
> very wrong..[/B]


The dogs must be spayed or neutered to be registered...it is not meant to be a litter registration type thing. Look at the ILP program.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (JMM @ Apr 23 2009, 01:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766831


> QUOTE (Cosy @ Apr 23 2009, 01:55 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=766829





> Oh, see I think greeders will jump at the chance to register dogs so they can use the term AKC. I hope I'm
> very wrong..[/B]


The dogs must be spayed or neutered to be registered...it is not meant to be a litter registration type thing. Look at the ILP program.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Yes, but they can use it as a tool to sell.


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

The AKC already registers puppy mill and byb puppies.

When I asked for help with a horrible puppy mill, dogs in barns etc. I was bluntly told "We do not police the breeders, we only register".
I asked them to check to see if the puppy mill which was advertising AKC was indeed registered and after checking they found out that they were not. Who knows what they did after that......probably asked the puppy mill people for the money owed to AKC and went about their business of "registering".


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