# Picking a puppy



## princesslinda84 (Mar 18, 2008)

I'm having trouble deciding/differentiating between the puppies I have seen from different breeders. I think I have been looking at too many puppies and getting confused because they are all so cute in my opinion! I know each breeder has different looking dogs and I know there are Chrisman-looking pups, baby-doll faces etc. I definitely want my puppy to have the short nose but what defines each look and what other looks are there? I have been looking at alwaysmaltese and chaletdemaltese. Can anyone suggest other breeders with puppies that have the short noses? I will be moving to Illinois this coming Fall for school. Thanks so much for your help!


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

You ought to talk with the breeder about what you are looking for in particular. They can tell you what they are expecting out of their pups and if one would meet your wants. 

BTW, baby doll faces are incorrect according to our standard.


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Actually, our breed standard is somewhat vague as far as faces
go. The key word is moderate. Baby doll faces can differ too.
There are extremes and not so extreme. Marcris's
Ch. Marcris Risque Business is the world's top sire having 107
champions to his name. That is WORLD sire for producing champions.
One of the reasons is his beautiful face he threw.
Many of those champions have champions to their names with those
sweet faces too. The kennels you named do have him in their pedigrees
at least to some extent or other, as do many others.


----------



## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

are u looking for a male or female? i love my chalet babies and susie gave me exactly what i was looking for. feel free to pM me with any questions


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

The U.S. standard defines it as "medium length" and also does not describe bulging eyes. Most "baby doll" faces are incorrect according to our standard. Look at the FCI standard...it is also incorrect according to that. Short muzzles may be "in style" and common, but that does not mean they are correct. 

Of course, everyone can interpret the standard as they see fit. I hold onto the descriptions of a moderate dog and that is what I prefer and strive for.


----------



## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

> The U.S. standard defines it as "medium length" and also does not describe bulging eyes. Most "baby doll" faces are incorrect according to our standard. Look at the FCI standard...it is also incorrect according to that. Short muzzles may be "in style" and common, but that does not mean they are correct.
> 
> Of course, everyone can interpret the standard as they see fit. I hold onto the descriptions of a moderate dog and that is what I prefer and strive for.[/B]


I agree. The standard says MODERATE muzzle ..


----------



## Bella Rose (Mar 21, 2006)

Can we please NOT get into this AGAIN? Let's just state that some of us like shorter muzzles while others of us like a little longer muzzle! The standard is VAGUE at best!

And for the record, my Bella has a short muzzle and her eyes DO NOT bulge as it was just put and I take offense to that statement because it's NOT true!!!


----------



## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

I was just agreeing about the shorter muzzle not being true to standard. I made no comment about whether I liked it or not. And I don't think anyone was directing their comment to you Leigh Ann or Bella. Just saying that it wasn't true to standard. And I do believe Jacki used the word most when describing..So no need to take offense.


----------



## Bella Rose (Mar 21, 2006)

> I was just agreeing about the shorter muzzle not being true to standard. I made no comment about whether I liked it or not. And I don't think anyone was directing their comment to you Leigh Ann or Bella. Just saying that it wasn't true to standard. And I do believe Jacki used the word most when describing..So no need to take offense.[/B]


I didn't think I was being singled out... but it's still an UNTRUE statement. And it was a not nice thing to say....it would be about like me saying that ones with longer muzzles look like they have snouts that go on forever! Just NOT a nice thing to say and I do take offense. 

And I don't agree with it being not true to standard. All you have to do is take a look at some of the dogs in the show ring and the ones that are winning nationwide... not just in a local area...


----------



## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

I am not going in to it, because I feel that would just be starting an arguement for no reason. We all have different taste..I am just agreeing with Jacki when the breed standard states moderate muzzle. While the standard may be vague, that is one of the things it does state. 
They shouldn't be long or too short, just moderate..as in proportioned with the eye set. Anyhow, everyone's babies are adorable and I was in no way trying to stir up trouble, just agreeing with the statement made by Jacki. 

Have a nice day! 



> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=550290
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Bella Rose (Mar 21, 2006)

> I am not going in to it, because I feel that would just be starting an arguement for no reason. We all have different taste..I am just agreeing with Jacki when the breed standard states moderate muzzle. While the standard may be vague, that is one of the things it does state.
> They shouldn't be long or too short, just moderate..as in proportioned with the eye set. Anyhow, everyone's babies are[/B]



I agree... which is why I asked that we not go over this subject yet AGAIN. As you said, we all have our different tastes and I don't think either is necessarily right or wrong. It's all about what appeals to you... and the breed standard is vague and open for interpretation and doesn't state anything specific. 

My original post was not directed at you Andrea.... you just chose to respond. It is not my intent to start any argument with anyone... but I'm also not going to sit here quietly when Jacki made such a broad statement about the type of dog that I just happen to have.

You have a nice day too!


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Well my dogs don't perfectly meet the standard and I certainly don't take it as an insult. Nor is it insulting for me to say that poor shoulder angulation is not in our standard and is not correct. Lots of dogs still have it. I think people should be aware of what the standard states and what are fads and styles. There is nothing insulting about that. Incorrect styles of all sorts in all breeds can be found winning in the breed ring. Doesn't make it any more correct. I'd take a moderate face over a baby doll face any day. Other people prefer the short muzzle. Some people like exaggerated necks. I prefer a more moderate dog. But it doesn't change what the written standard says.


----------



## ShilohsMom (Jun 25, 2007)

I never did understand this fascination with the length of a dog's nose or muzzle. Its pretty petty and superficial- one should care alot more about the dogs temperament and expected size.


----------



## carolicious (Feb 25, 2008)

I'm sorry, I don't really meant to go off tangent or anything.. but can someone tell me or show me (preferable :biggrin: ) what a "baby doll" face looks like?

I know what a baby doll looks like in clothing terms.. but in dog terms? :blink:


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

A moderate muzzle can mean different sizes to different people.
I've seen bulging eyes on long muzzles as well as short.
I once heard the muzzle should be 1/3 the length of the head.
If that were true, a lot more short muzzles would be correct 
than not. Often the shorter muzzle appears even shorter than
some think due to the flare and thickness of the mustache.
It's difficult to deny that a pretty head and shorter muzzle
does not do well in the ring if the rest is there as well.
Sometimes you will see a Maltese being shown that has it's
poofy topknots so far out there that they are almost on top
of the nose. That is to counter balance that muzzle, to give it
the appearance of a shorter muzzle.

Shorter muzzles have been around a very long time. It's not

fad nor just in style at the moment. There are just more of them

with the help of some lines promoting the prettier, softer heads

due to the dogs throwing them more consistently.


----------



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=550296
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think people should be able to talk about different Maltese looks and share their opinions of these looks without it appearing as an insult to someone whose Malt may happen to have that look. We can't possibly know the particular characteristics of every member's Malt and I think it would be a shame to not be able to talk about this subject in general for fear that someone might take it personally.

That's like someone saying they don't like the color blue and a member getting upset because for example, their bedroom is decorated in that color. 

I really don't see why we can't discuss Maltese looks without people taking it personally... it isn't personal... it is just an academic discussion of the breed standard, which is quite appropriate.


----------



## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=550299
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LBB agrees. After all, he does not get offended when the eye "set" is being discussed ~ LOL

And then there's Henry. Nothing offends him. Heck, he's changed his name to Baboon Butt :HistericalSmiley: 

Myself, I find the showing of Maltese, the standard, the different "looks" between breeders, etc.
very interesting. Not offending at all. Just discussion in general.


----------



## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

Give baboon butt a big ol' kiss from me 

Tell him, I've got my eyes on him (Does the i've got my eye on you Robert Deniro hand motion from Meet the Parents) :HistericalSmiley:





> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=550452
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think people should be able to talk about different Maltese looks and share their opinions of these looks without it appearing as an insult to someone whose Malt may happen to have that look. We can't possibly know the particular characteristics of every member's Malt and I think it would be a shame to not be able to talk about this subject in general for fear that someone might take it personally.

That's like someone saying they don't like the color blue and a member getting upset because for example, their bedroom is decorated in that color. 

I really don't see why we can't discuss Maltese looks without people taking it personally... it isn't personal... it is just an academic discussion of the breed standard, which is quite appropriate here.


[/B][/QUOTE]


LBB agrees. After all, he does not get offended when the eye "set" is being discussed ~ LOL

And then there's Henry. Nothing offends him. Heck, he's changed his name to Baboon Butt :HistericalSmiley: 

Myself, I find the showing of Maltese, the standard, the different "looks" between breeders, etc.
very interesting. Not offending at all. Just discussion in general.
[/B][/QUOTE]


----------



## Lennabella (Mar 29, 2007)

I like the baby doll face cute shorter muzzle look - I personally don't like the fierce look some of the malts have.

Max has neither of those but I love him soooooooo much for just being Max.

Heck - I think all Maltese are cute whatever characteristics they have ... :wub:


----------



## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

> I like the baby doll face cute shorter muzzle look - I personally don't like the fierce look some of the malts have.
> 
> Max has neither of those but I love him soooooooo much for just being Max.
> 
> Heck - I think all Maltese are cute whatever characteristics they have ... :wub:[/B]



Help me out Lina, what's the fierce look?


Joy


----------



## Bella Rose (Mar 21, 2006)

> I think people should be able to talk about different Maltese looks and share their opinions of these looks without it appearing as an insult to someone whose Malt may happen to have that look. We can't possibly know the particular characteristics of every member's Malt and I think it would be a shame to not be able to talk about this subject in general for fear that someone might take it personally.
> 
> That's like someone saying they don't like the color blue and a member getting upset because for example, their bedroom is decorated in that color.
> 
> I really don't see why we can't discuss Maltese looks without people taking it personally... it isn't personal... it is just an academic discussion of the breed standard, which is quite appropriate.[/B]


OK, let me clarify something here... I was not insulted nor did I take it personally, the discussion about the different muzzle lengths. I agree, it is a great discussion about the breed we all love. BUT, I do not think it's necessary to say that most of the shorter muzzled dogs are bug eyed (or however it was stated). We can discuss it without being nasty about it. That, to me, is insulting. I think you misunderstood my comments.


----------



## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

> Give baboon butt a big ol' kiss from me
> 
> Tell him, I've got my eyes on him (Does the i've got my eye on you Robert Deniro hand motion from Meet the Parents) :HistericalSmiley:
> 
> ...



LBB agrees. After all, he does not get offended when the eye "set" is being discussed ~ LOL

And then there's Henry. Nothing offends him. Heck, he's changed his name to Baboon Butt :HistericalSmiley: 

Myself, I find the showing of Maltese, the standard, the different "looks" between breeders, etc.
very interesting. Not offending at all. Just discussion in general.
[/B][/QUOTE]

[/B][/QUOTE]




> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=550468
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are some show dogs that do look "mad" "fierce" whatever you want to call it. But I won't post a pic just in case some one knows who's dog it it!!!


----------



## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

[attachment=35541:acemajor3.jpg]
Maggie, like this? I love the fierce look LOL  



> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=550464
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think people should be able to talk about different Maltese looks and share their opinions of these looks without it appearing as an insult to someone whose Malt may happen to have that look. We can't possibly know the particular characteristics of every member's Malt and I think it would be a shame to not be able to talk about this subject in general for fear that someone might take it personally.

That's like someone saying they don't like the color blue and a member getting upset because for example, their bedroom is decorated in that color. 

I really don't see why we can't discuss Maltese looks without people taking it personally... it isn't personal... it is just an academic discussion of the breed standard, which is quite appropriate here.


[/B][/QUOTE]


LBB agrees. After all, he does not get offended when the eye "set" is being discussed ~ LOL

And then there's Henry. Nothing offends him. Heck, he's changed his name to Baboon Butt :HistericalSmiley: 

Myself, I find the showing of Maltese, the standard, the different "looks" between breeders, etc.
very interesting. Not offending at all. Just discussion in general.
[/B][/QUOTE]

[/B][/QUOTE]




> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=550468
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are some show dogs that do look "mad" "fierce" whatever you want to call it. But I won't post a pic just in case some one knows who's dog it it!!!   
[/B][/QUOTE]


----------



## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

> [attachment=35541:acemajor3.jpg]
> Maggie, like this? I love the fierce look LOL
> 
> 
> ...



LBB agrees. After all, he does not get offended when the eye "set" is being discussed ~ LOL

And then there's Henry. Nothing offends him. Heck, he's changed his name to Baboon Butt :HistericalSmiley: 

Myself, I find the showing of Maltese, the standard, the different "looks" between breeders, etc.
very interesting. Not offending at all. Just discussion in general.
[/B][/QUOTE]

[/B][/QUOTE]




> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=550468
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are some show dogs that do look "mad" "fierce" whatever you want to call it. But I won't post a pic just in case some one knows who's dog it it!!!    
[/B][/QUOTE]

[/B][/QUOTE]


Nope....I'll send you a pic on a PM....Did you like the "watching" emoticon?


----------



## KandiMaltese (Mar 27, 2007)

OMG maggie i just saw it :HistericalSmiley: :smheat:


----------



## Luna'sMom (Oct 7, 2007)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=550452
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Saying a dog has bulging eyes isn't an insult - its a term used to describe prominent eyes (think pug eyes)  I wouldn't care if someone pointed out Luna's pig tail and said it wasn't to standard- after all she is a little pig and her tail makes her look like one :HistericalSmiley: 

I find it really interesting to see Maltese with different 'looks' :biggrin:


----------



## Harley & Dakotas Mum (Jun 11, 2005)

I hope I'm not taking this too off topic, but I am also fascinated by the different looks of Maltese, and their breeding lines etc.

I would never in a million years swear blind that Harley is 100% Maltese, his background is quite questionable. You've all seen how different he is in looks to Dakota, but anyways, I took Harley to visit Dakota's breeder once, and I said to Barry, this is my little boy, I'm pretty sure there's a little 'mix' thrown in there somewhere along the line, and he totally floored me when he said that he though that Harley looked to him what was the 'old standard' .... (personally, this didn't change my mind, I still think Harls has something 'special' thrown into his mix :wub: ) so I guess what I mean is, it's interesting to see that at least in Barry's eyes, he believes the 'look' of the standard has changed somewhat over the years. Or, maybe it's not the look of the 'standard' that I mean - perhaps its the 'look' that is still within standard, yet more pleasing to judges??

I dunno, I'm rambling now :brownbag:


----------



## Luna'sMom (Oct 7, 2007)

I totally agree Jacqui - I see Maltese everywhere that look nothing like Luna (besides being entirely white and a similar size) and it interests me to see the variation in structure both in pet Maltese and show Maltese. 

It seems totally reasonable that the Maltese breed is 'evolving' because judges are 'choosing' Maltese with a specific look that they like or breeders are tailoring their lines for a desired trait i.e. small size, baby-doll face etc etc etc 

I think the baby-doll face is adorable - but at the same time I LOVE Luna's small but longer snout - I grew up with 2 short nosed dogs ( a pug and Malt/Shih-tzu) so it's different to have a pointy snouted dog (compared to the pug at least :HistericalSmiley: ). I love the diversity of 'looks' :wub: To me any Maltese is beautiful - no matter the muzzle shape or eye bulgy-ness or curly coat or pig tail or imperfect pigment :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

Give Harley a big kiss from Luna and me :wub: and don't leave out Missy-moo!


----------



## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

> I'm having trouble deciding/differentiating between the puppies I have seen from different breeders. I think I have been looking at too many puppies and getting confused because they are all so cute in my opinion! I know each breeder has different looking dogs and I know there are Chrisman-looking pups, baby-doll faces etc. I definitely want my puppy to have the short nose but what defines each look and what other looks are there? I have been looking at alwaysmaltese and chaletdemaltese. Can anyone suggest other breeders with puppies that have the short noses? I will be moving to Illinois this coming Fall for school. Thanks so much for your help![/B]


What is it that you are looking for in a Maltese? Pictures don't show the faces and noses very well. The standard calls for a moderate length nose, but someone started breeding for the shorter noses so we have those now. Different lines that breeders have can have different heads. I have "Fantasy Land" heads and "Marcris" heads and sometimes a longer nose. Breeder's breed for different "styles". What size are you wanting? What sex are you wanting? Are you going to be able to keep your Malt with you when you go to school? What is your price range? A lot of breeder's started with Marcris breeding. So they have that look. With my own when the girls are shaved down I have to see their faces to make sure I have the right girl. Not all of them have the same breeding either. :brownbag: I have two 8 week old puppies right now. They look very identical, but the boy's coat is all white and the girl has "color" in her coat. So, that is how I keep those two straight. My Mom lives in my front yard in her RV, she came over and I had brought those two puppies to the front to start socializing and potty training them. She picks up the boy and is petting him and she says, this puppy doesn't have a nose. :smrofl: 
The two breeder's you have been looking at have very nice puppies. 
Good luck in your search for your special little Malt. :wub: 
Tina


----------



## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

> I hope I'm not taking this too off topic, but I am also fascinated by the different looks of Maltese, and their breeding lines etc.
> 
> I would never in a million years swear blind that Harley is 100% Maltese, his background is quite questionable. You've all seen how different he is in looks to Dakota, but anyways, I took Harley to visit Dakota's breeder once, and I said to Barry, this is my little boy, I'm pretty sure there's a little 'mix' thrown in there somewhere along the line, and he totally floored me when he said that he though that Harley looked to him what was the 'old standard' .... (personally, this didn't change my mind, I still think Harls has something 'special' thrown into his mix :wub: ) so I guess what I mean is, it's interesting to see that at least in Barry's eyes, he believes the 'look' of the standard has changed somewhat over the years. Or, maybe it's not the look of the 'standard' that I mean - perhaps its the 'look' that is still within standard, yet more pleasing to judges??
> 
> I dunno, I'm rambling now :brownbag:[/B]


Jacki,
You still see some of the older heads around. You see them occationally in the ring. The boys have a masculine head. Harley looks all Maltese to me. Here are few pictures from the book "The Complete Maltese" by Nicholas Cutillo. These dogs are considered the old style. 
[attachment=35564:Maltese_Old_Head.jpg] 
I actually love the heads on these dogs.
[attachment=35565:Maltese_Old_Head2.jpg]


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> The U.S. standard defines it as "medium length" and also does not describe bulging eyes.[/B]


No where did I call any person's dog bug-eyed. Please take the time to read posts carefully. What is said on the internet is not always clear since we can't "hear" the "tone" of the writing. Instead of taking offense, it may be more productive to simple ask what the person meant.


----------



## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=550682
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very interesting. The face of the Maltese in the 2nd pic reminds me of Boo. I love Boo & his nose. :wub:


----------



## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

> You still see some of the older heads around. You see them occationally in the ring. The boys have a masculine head. Harley looks all Maltese to me. Here are few pictures from the book "The Complete Maltese" by Nicholas Cutillo. These dogs are considered the old style.
> [attachment=35564:Maltese_Old_Head.jpg]
> I actually love the heads on these dogs.
> [attachment=35565:Maltese_Old_Head2.jpg][/B]


Tina, I agree! I love the "old" look too. Those pics look like my ole' Frosty did. He was born in '92 and had Fanastyland in his pedigree.

When I started looking for a puppy last year at this time that was one of my first requirements, a "moderate" muzzle. I personally don't like what I think of as a radical "babydoll" face. i.e. eyes too wide apart and muzzle too short. Worry about teeth problems is one of my reasons for not wanting a too short muzzle.

When I finally made a decision to take Shoni it turns out that personality and how they are raised is the most important to me. He did have a "look" that I'm not good enough to technically define, but fell in love with. Big round eyes, moderate muzzle, low ear set help make it. :thumbsup: I just know that both me and my husband can hardly keep our eyes off of him and can't help but say "you are the cutest thing!!" constantly! :wub: 

Picking one to show that the current judges will favor would be a different story!! They don't all stick to the straight and narrow of the words in the "written standard" for this breed or any other. Trends in style do enter into it and I think get a little carried away. :brownbag:


----------



## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

While the breed standard as printed on the AKC and AMA websites appears to be somewhat vague and open to personal interpretation, I think the Illustrated Guide to the Maltese Standard gives better definition to the standard because it contains both drawings and clarification paragraphs. And the Illustrated Guide is what is given to the juges when learning to judge our breed. Here's what the Illustrated Guide says about eyes and muzzles. The drawings, which I cannot scan, are particularly helpful because they show both correct and incorrect examples.

*Eyes* - Eyes are set not too far apart; they are very dark and round, their black rims enhancing the gentle yet alert expression.

_Clarification - Eyes should be a size that is in proper balance to the rest of the head - not small and beady or big and bulging. They should always be round, not almond-shaped like a Poodle, and should be dark. Maltese eyes should always have black rims - all the way around the eye. This proper combination gives the breed its gentle expression._

*Muzzle, Nose* - The muzzle is of medium length, fine and tapered but not snipy. The nose is black.

_Clarification - The muzzle should not be too long for the balance of the head, nor too short so as to confuse it with another breed. It has good width, without being boxy or blocky and is tapered down to the nose, but never snipy. The nose is black as coal. Not mentioned in the Standard are the lips, which are also a plus to the total picture if they are dark black._

While we all have personal preferences as to style and while one or more features of any dog in the ring on any day may not be absolutely correct according to our standard, the judge should be judging the whole dog, not just one feature, whether correct or not correct.

Someone mentioned the "fierce" look. I'm not sure if this is the same look that I call the "evil eye" look but if it is, I think the placement of the top knots can totally change the same dog's look from day to day. Here are two pictures of one of my dogs. They were taken within days of each other. In one picture he has what I call a "soft" look and in the other picture he has the "evil eye" look ... all because of the way the topknots happened to come out that day.



















MaryH


----------



## vjw (Dec 20, 2006)

> While the breed standard as printed on the AKC and AMA websites appears to be somewhat vague and open to personal interpretation, I think the Illustrated Guide to the Maltese Standard gives better definition to the standard because it contains both drawings and clarification paragraphs. And the Illustrated Guide is what is given to the juges when learning to judge our breed. Here's what the Illustrated Guide says about eyes and muzzles. The drawings, which I cannot scan, are particularly helpful because they show both correct and incorrect examples.
> 
> *Eyes* - Eyes are set not too far apart; they are very dark and round, their black rims enhancing the gentle yet alert expression.
> 
> ...




Thank you for the definitions and pictures illustrating the fierce look. Do you know why the "bubbles" over the eyes are used in show dogs? I have no experience with showing and am curious as to why the hair is teased to make the bubbles.



Joy


----------

