# Cookie's Bad News



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Hi, I am so very sorry to hear about Cookie (glad Noodle is OK though). I am sorry I have no experience with the issues she is facing but hopefully Jackie (JMM) will see this and she'll surely have some answers for you..... 

If it helps.... know that I care and I'm hoping that things will get better with her eating, bathroom, etc.!!


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

What brand prescription dog food was it? Hill's?
I'm sorry to hear this bad news... Kodie and I send our love!









There are puppy mill's in KOREA???????????







(sorry, i dont know much about puppy mills)


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

Awww, bless Cookie's lil' heart, our thoughts are with you.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

sorry to hear the news..i hope she gets to feeling better
A diagnosis of diabetes mellitus should be based on the presence of clinical signs compatible with diabetes mellitus and evidence of fasting hyperglycemia and glycosuria. Common clinicopathologic features of diabetes mellitus in dogs include: fasting hyperglycemia hypercholesterolemia, increased liver enzymes (ALP, ALT), neutrophilic leukocytosis, proteinuria, increased urine specific gravity and glycosuria. so the liver could look bad from the diabetes. did her run a urine test?

i'm worried about the high glucose...here is some physiology :Glucose that is stored in hepatocytes is called glycogen. It is used as a reservoir during times when carbohydrate intake is low (fasting or starvation). The liver can also manufacture glucose from proteins or fats.
In liver disease the body can have a difficult time regulating the blood glucose level, usually leading to hypoglycemia (low blood glucose).
cookie's glucose is High so i would worry that the diabetes is leading to the liver 
enzymes being high.

hope this helps
o and as for the food have u tried heating it up a little ...sometimes this helps


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Dec 14 2004, 10:57 PM
> *Kodie, the food is not Hill's....it's Waltham.  I never heard of it before.  When I go in to the vet again later, I'll check where it is from.  You tend to get food, toys, and medicne imported from all over the world here--really rather great!  Anyway, I had to throw out the bag as it smelled so good that Noodle wanted to eat it.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

DMZ, Waltham makes Royal Canin.... it is an excellent company... here is their Web site: http://www.waltham.com/

You are so lucky to live down the street from a vet. I can't imagine.... and free consults... wow! I'm so glad for you, esp. with Cookie's new issues.....


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## Mystify79 (Apr 6, 2004)

Poor little Cookie.. I wish I could give you some advice but I don't have any experience with that.. We'll be wishing for the best for her.


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

omg, u should have had a hectic move, but now Cookie has diabetes??

im so sorry to hear that..

yeah KOREAN VETS GIVE U FREEEEE walk ins, and if u dont get any medicine or anything from them, the consults are free too...i was shocked that amreican vets charge u just for "talking" with them...gosh...









yeah Yanju is known for puppymills..most of them are bred there and are shipped to petstores..

if u go to Chungjong-ro in Seoul, thats the MAJOR area for petstores...theres about 10 blocks full of petstores there..and known for selling sick puppies too...

but i heard that the economy is bad and korean puppies are really cheap now...









goodluck with everything !!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

either ur vet can collect the urine..or when she goes to pee use a ladle or shove a bowl under there....maybe he switched her diet to prevent her liver from getting worse...but is he persuing the diabetes? yes if the diabetes gets undercontrol and once the liver is back to normal u should be able to do the surgery...if there is n e thing u want me to explain better let me know. i will write it in english lol


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Dec 14 2004, 10:47 PM
> *  Could he squeeze it out of a piddle pad?  I'm starting to giggle over this.....  I guess that the best way to get a sample is to place her in a HUGE bowl and then have a visitor come over to get her all excited so she'll do her excited to see you pee.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=23304*


[/QUOTE]







LOL u cracked me up!


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

I'm rootin' for Cookie to be well! Take care and a cagillion XOXOXO's for her from ButterCloud and Noriko







.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

if the vet does it ..either he will keep her and collect it the same way i told u to, or he will use a needle and go into the bladder which is the best way to get a sample, or he can catherterize her and get it that way


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

So sorry about Cookie,im sure she will be fine.We will all say a prayer for her.,and keep you in our thoughts


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## suzanne (Nov 23, 2004)

the move is doing wonders on you. at another time, it seems you may have been more frantic. let's give the local vet credit for that and let's carry on with cookie's knee. have i suggested you try glucosamine/chondroitine? 
please do. i'm a believer! i have seen the truth. canaille has been on it for 2 years and it has improved her articulation immediately 98% 
while surgery is on hold, why not give cookie's little knee a chance to improve? let me make a believer out of you.


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Dec 15 2004, 01:03 AM
> *EDIT:  Didn't know we were limited on the number of emoticons we use in a post.  What's the exact number permitted?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=23343*


[/QUOTE]
Yeah...we cant COMPLETELY express ourselves, huh! lol

I'm sooooooo happy for you. I know you still have to have the knee surgery, but I'm so glad to hear she's healthier than you thought. Maybe if you crunch up he special food with the RAW diet, she will eat it easier. That way she cant move the dog food away. I dont know. Good luck with that. I hope everything's getting more situated with you. Take care.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)




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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Hi,
I am glad to see that Cookie's test results have improved so! 
My little Missy is a diabetic.. has been for over 2 and 1/2 years... her blood glucose was at 321 when dx and had some blood panel elevations at dx. (mostly the liver enzymes). all came back into good range after regulation.
Normal blood glucose values for pooches is about the same as for humans..about 70-120. When they go up considerably.. then there is need to be watchful.
I do suggest that you keep a close eye on her and to be sure have her checked for awhile to be absolutely sure there is no diabetic issue. I say this because SOMETIMES.. in the early stages.. the pooches pancreas are sporatic in producing the insulin. Add a "good day of production..plus a diet that would be lower in carb and higher in fiber.... "Could" give a "good' result.
The fact that there WAS elevated glucose levels... rather concerns me.
Diabetes is very manageble! BUT it can be very risky to organs if left undx.... especially the eyes.. in dog it can cause "diabetic cataracts" which can form quickly.
I don't mean to scare you.. but to warn you to monitor this for awhile to be sure that there is no problem. Missy showed no sign of diabetes..other than over one week-end started to dring more than usual. I was sure it was a "simple" UTI so took a sample in and expected the vet to come back and give order for antibiotic. NOT!... she said there was a spill over of glucose into the urine.. and so did a follow up blood test which confirmed. In the early stages we had a lot of adjustmenst.. food/exercise/ and of course had to do the 2 x day insulin injections. ...YES! I was TERRIFIED!... but knowing it was what was needed to save my little girls life... THAT was the modivator. ( NO! pills do not work in dogs.... and NO the one shot per day insulins do NOT do well for dogs... might help in the beginning but not lasting.. ) Believe me I have reserched this for a long long time!!! we are well into over 2 and 1/2 years... Missy is well regulated.. and she still has her sight.
As I said.. I don't want to scare you and it could be that Cookie just had a "flukey"
test result... but to be sure.. just have it checked on a regular basis for awhile. The high she had indicates that at some point ...for some reason.. her body didn't produce the insulin to cover .
You can even do urine testing with urine dipsticks. I prefer the keto-diastix by Bayer.. don't know if available there.. but should be.. they are for human diabetics.. they would indicate of there is a 'spill-over" of glucose into the urine. I use a styro coffee cup.. cut down to about 2 inches( little less) and simply shove it under her when she squats. You don't need a whole lot to test. Spill over happens at about when the blood glucose reaches the 180-200 range... an indication that yes.. there is an 'issue".
I am not wanting to burst you bubble by any means.. only knowing that diabetes can be a bit 'flukey" in itself in the early stages.. and early detection can make all the difference in easier regulation ... left untreated.. can be cause for complications. So, only suggesting that you keep eye out for awhile.. just to be absolutely certain.
Terry and Missy







> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Dec 15 2004, 03:03 AM
> *WWOOOOOOOOOOOO-HOOOOOOOOOOOOO!~
> 
> We just got back from the vet's.  I had him test Cookie for diabetes and also to run all the other tests again as well.  No diabetes!  Plus, on Monday, she had six very bad results.  Today, only three bad results:  one was only .1 off of being in the normal range!!  Her levels were cut more than half on some of the results.  The vet got on the phone with some specialists in Seoul and afterwards was able to tell me not to worry whatsoever.  He said that all her levels should be perfectly normal within a short amount of time.  Her liver problem is NOT congenital like I had feared.  She may have to always eat special food or at least eat it as a supplement, but she's going to be a normal little dog!!!!
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by IamMomtoMissy_@Dec 15 2004, 07:00 AM
> *Hi,
> I am glad to see that Cookie's test results have improved so!
> My little Missy is a diabetic.. has been for over 2 and 1/2 years... her blood .....
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=23370*


[/QUOTE]

Terry, I am glad to see you posting.... When DMZ mentioned diabetes I thought of you and hoped you would see her post! I hope we will hear from you again. I had been wondering how Missy is doing . . .


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

My Lady is also diabetic and I agree 100% with everything Terry has said. It is very important to continue to monitor Cookie's blood sugar before ruling out diabetes altogether. Often dogs continue to produce some insulin on their own in the beginning stages before the pancreas completely shuts down. Vets not experienced in treating diabetes will often mistake this for type 2 (non-insulin dependant) diabetes or rule out diabetes prematurely.

As far as what causes diabetes, dogs are no different than people - being overweight and genetically prone to it are the two main reasons. We have had a surprising # of diabetic Maltese on our pets with diabetes website over the years considering the relative scarcity of the breed so there must be a genetic link somewhere. Northcentral Maltese Rescue currently has a diabetic female looking for a home. I asked Mary Palmer a while back and she said they do get them into rescue periodically. Also, steriod use can cause diabetes as can repeated bouts of pancreatitis (so no fatty hard to digest food - EVER!)

Hopefully, Cookie doesn't have diabetes, but if it turns out to be diabetes afterall, it is not a death sentence. Lady will celebrate her 3rd anniversary with diabetes in a few weeks and still has her vision (most do go blind if tight control is not maintained) and is doing great.


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

I am soooooo Happy for you and Cookie!!!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Dec 15 2004, 08:33 AM
> *My Lady is also diabetic and I agree 100% with everything Terry has said. It is very important to continue to monitor Cookie's blood sugar before ruling out diabetes altogether. Often dogs continue to produce some insulin on their own in the beginning stages before the pancreas completely shuts down. Vets not experienced in treating diabetes will often mistake this for type 2 (non-insulin dependant) diabetes or rule out diabetes prematurely.
> 
> As far as what causes diabetes, dogs are no different than people - being overweight and genetically prone to it are the two main reasons. We have had a surprising # of diabetic Maltese on our pets with diabetes website over the years considering the relative scarcity of the breed so there must be a genetic link somewhere. Northcentral Maltese Rescue currently has a diabetic female looking for a home. I asked Mary Palmer a while back and she said they do get them into rescue periodically. Also, steriod use can cause diabetes as can repeated bouts of pancreatitis (so no fatty hard to digest food - EVER!)
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Marj, gosh how could I forget that Lady has diabetes, too and that you are also a great resource for the disease. Pardon my brain freeze!!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

I agree too, you can't rule out the disease that quickly....i would monitor this for a while just to be sure. the doctor doesnt have to run all the blood values, he can just run the glucose by itself (which it less blood, just a drop) what did he tell you...did he tell u to come back?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Did either of the vets tell you exactly what Cookie's blood glucose was? If not, I'd probably call and find out the exact numbers. It could be really helpful. 

We have had some people on our Diabetes website whose vet didn't think the dog was truly diabetic or needed insulin because the numbers were only around 175-200, not 300 plus as they usually see. Since normal is 70-120, that is still elevated blood sugar.

I'm just concerned that a misdiagnosis not be made in Cookie's case. Too often dogs get very sick and go blind very quickly in the beginning because an accurate diagnosis was not made soon enough or insulin therapy started asap.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Get the numbers for her blood results. 

How high was a high BG? Did they retest to be sure it wasn't a lab error? 

How high were her liver values? Which ones were high? 

Usually, the first thing with liver values is to do 2 weeks of antibiotics and retest as infection is a very common cause if elevated liver values. Also, if her liver values remain elevated bile acids should be tested to see if they indicate a shunt or microvascular dysplasia. 

Commercial diets for liver disease include Hill's l/d, Waltham/Royal Canin hepatic formula, or IVD's modified (it's a renal diet, but liver friendly). You can also do home cooked, but this should be done under a vet's supervision. 

Without numbers, it is hard to say anything. Dogs with shunts may have no signs for years.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

If your paranoid... i am too! I went to 4 different hospitals with kodie for all different opinions... and blood work done at each place. It cost a lot but i didnt stop until I felt comfortable with the results. Your a good mommy remember that!


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

"Also, I had in my mind Missy's mom and Lady's mom the entire time and if the test came back positive for diabetes, they both would have been flooded with private messages.







I guess you could consider that a warning in case the next test comes back positive.







"

I hope it not even an issue... it is ALWAYS better to NOT have the diabetes.. however.. very doable if it is..! (it may well have been a messed up finding)
So we'll all think positive... er negative.. er.. you kow what I mean!!!!. LOL!..Don't hesitate to contact me... would be more than glad yo help you out! 

Soorrry! you are NOT the most paranoid mom.... I won THAT "honor" years ago!!LOL.. however.. the paranoia has helped me catch things early with Missy and given her good time so paranoia CAN be a good thing!!
Always better to be safe than sorry is my motto!

Good Luck.. will be watching for your update!








Terry and Missy


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

No you are not paranoid. I hope she will be back to normal again. If she does not like the commercial foods, why not ask the vet what you could home cook for her ?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

If there was no glucose done the first time, why did they suspect diabetes?


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Dec 15 2004, 11:11 PM
> *If there was no glucose done the first time, why did they suspect diabetes?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=23634*


[/QUOTE]
i was wondering the same thing...thought i was reading it wrong


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava+Dec 15 2004, 11:14 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i was wondering the same thing...thought i was reading it wrong
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=23635
[/B][/QUOTE]


Me, too...


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

I understood that there were tests two days apart.... and glucose only done on one of these 2 days???


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

DMZ, if I were you I wouldn't wait 2 weeks to retest Cookie's blood glucose. Two weeks can be a lifetime for a diabetic dog, literally. About a year after she was diagnosed, my Lady had elevated blood glucose for several weeks from arthritis. Despite a course of Rimadyl, it continued to be high, but not even super high (highs 300's were the top). She went into ketoacidosis and nearly died. It also cost nearly $1000 to save her.

http://www.petdiabetes.org/ketoacidosis.htm

We have had members on our pets with diabetes website report that their dogs went blind almost overnight. A recent study done by Watham Veterinary found that the cataracts that lead to diabetic blindness usually start in the first 8 months.

If Cookie is just beginning to show symptoms of diabetes, you are very fortunate. All it takes is a small drop of blood (I even test Lady at home daily) to determine blood glucose. It is a very inexpensive test, too.

Do you ave access to a fax machine? I'd get both vets to fax you the results of their tests. I know have learned to always request a copy when Lady has bloodwork.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MomtwoMaltmuffins_@Dec 16 2004, 12:23 AM
> *http://www.bichonfriseusa.com/caninebloodwork.htm
> 
> This is an excellent website that explains what the blood tests are and the values for each.  I copied the page here, but the page is laid out much better at the link above.  I printed out a copy for myself so anytime either of the dogs have to have blood work, I will bring the sheet with me and compare the results.  From now on I am always going to ask for the exact numbers so I can do comparison studies on my own.  Every little bit helps.  I hope some find this helpful as well.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Thanks so much for this valuable information!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

could it have been PCV? not that this is n e thing to do w/ her probs, its just part of routine blood work.


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

Peanut and I are sending out out best wishes for you and Cookie. I'm sorry that I can't be much more help than that. I 'm sure that everything will turn out well.








Alissa


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Dec 16 2004, 11:37 AM
> *could it have been PVC? not that this is n e thing to do w/ her probs, its just part of routine blood work.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=23727*


[/QUOTE]

Do you mean PCV? 

Hematocrit ( HCT, PCV) measures the percentage of red blood cells to detect anemia and dehydration.

As you say, nothing really to do with her blood glucose, though.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I find the whole thing a bit over the top. In a normal dog with elevated liver enzymes, the first thing would be to retest and do bile acids and a course of antibiotics, not change to a liver sparing diet. Then her liver values were fine and she still needs the diet? To suspect diabetes and want to retest a BG in 2 weeks? I know that things are done differently, especially where pets are concerned, in varying countries, but it seems like this has gone all over the place on a dog that was clinically just fine.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

DMZ, this thread has sort of died.... and we don't know how Cookie is doing.... Update us, please!!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

aww it will be okay..let us know how it goes!


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

aww poor baby...glad she passed and is home safely. hope she has a speedy recovery!


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

Wishing Cookie a speedy recovery from her surgery. Hang in there!


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

Awwww! That is great.


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## Sunshine (Aug 20, 2004)

aaawww hugz from me & abby









tell cookie to cuddle the koala


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

Great news!! Hoping for a speedy and safe recovery!









~Elegant


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

yay~ im sure Cookie will recover soon in no time !


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Thanks so much for the update.... I could just picture the whole thing! I'm so glad this is over with and you can breathe. I do understand your obsessing as I am the same way. I think when we live alone with our babies it is even worse because we have no one to worry with.... it is just us with all that worry in our heads!

I'm glad that Cookie is progressing and hope she continues to improve on schedule.

Do keep us posted!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

The worst part is over at least, DMZ. Every day you should see an improvement in her pain level. Before you know it, she'll be running around again!

I'm so glad that you just went ahead and did the knees while she is still so young. That should speed up the healing and prevent arthritis from setting in.

Hopefully you can still get your laser eye surgery done someday soon!


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

So glad she is doing well.Its been a difficult time for both of you.She will mend quickly,with your wonderful,loveing care.Keep us posted.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

DMZ, Regarding eating.... there is a snack that my dogs go truly nuts over.. I mean just *bonkers!!! *It is made by the Kong people and it is called "Trail Mix". It is tiny, easy-to-eat bites and maybe Cookie will like it. It looks like dried veggies and fruit. You can see real blueberries in there, etc. I did a search on it and found this site... I'm sure it is available lots of places but this is the first one that came up.... (I "won" my bag in a "doggy goodie basket" at our United Way silent auction so I haven't bought any from a store yet...)


Kong Trail Mix Link

Kong Stuff 'N Tail Mix Dog Treats

Kong Stuff 'N Tail Mix is a specially formulated, wholesome trail mix for your dog. Whether on the trail or at home, your dog is sure to love this healthy snack. Give your dog a small handfull of Kong Stuff'N Tail Mix as a snack anytime, or stuff a Kong with Kong Stuff 'n Tail Mix. 

Great dry or add water for a delicious moist treat!

Caloric Content:
Serving Size........ 7g
Calories Per Serving........28
Servings Per Package....... 16

Guaranteed Anaylsis:
Crude Protein (minimum) ....12%
Crude Fat (minimum) ..........9%
Crude Fiber (maximum)........4%
Moisture (maximum) ..........10%

Ingredients:
Liver, Bananas, Milo*, Carrots, Tomatoes, Peas, Apples, Cranberries, Blueberries, Natural Flavor, Real Cheese Powder

* Smylos contains liver and milo, a gluten-free source of natural protein, carbohydrates, and dietary fiber from the sorghum grain family.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Wrap a wee wee pad around her bandages, plastic side to the bandage, and lightly tape it on. This will keep them dry when she pees laying down. Once she is up on the bandages, when you take her to pee you can just slip a plastic bag over the bandage. 

I'm glad she seems comfortable. Hopefully she'll be back up and moving in no time at all.


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## Mystify79 (Apr 6, 2004)

Poor little Cookie.. I'm glad she's home!







I'm glad you are posting her progress because my sister's dog will be having that surgery soon so it's so good to know what to look forward to with the recovery. Tuffy sends big hugs to Cookie!


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## mylittlebella (Aug 20, 2004)

I'm glad she's doing well and I wish her a quick recovery. Let us know her progress.


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Dec 29 2004, 06:24 AM
> *She was really nervous and upset as this happened on the bed, so I made a big deal about how good she was, and then she gave a big sigh and relaxed.  I'm going to sleep with my hand under her butt so I'll know when she starts peeing again.  Why do I get the feeling that ButterCloud is snickering about the previous sentence and mentally making cracks about how I'll pee my own bed if my hand gets wet?
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
WHO ME?!?!?!?







Nah, I'm only concerned with cookie's well being. I'm also thinking "DMZ needs to get wasted!" HAHA I'm just kidding.

But you know...if you did tinkle when she tinkles, it would totally defeat the purpose of why you placed your hand under her butt! LOL. Kisses for Cookie and you and Noodle from Buttercloud and Noriko







.


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## Sunshine (Aug 20, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Dec 29 2004, 07:24 AM
> *Sunshine, she is not allowed to have the koala.  She wants to roll on it.  *groan*  She's supposed to hold STILL!  Noodle has buried his kangaroo under his blankets in his bed.  Hiding it from me, I suppose.
> 
> Cookie seems to be doing well.  If she had only had one knee done, I think that she would be up and trying to hobble around.  As it is, there is no way she can and I'm thankful for that.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I'm so glad she's doing well







... and I would have opted for both knees being done at the same time too - better she take it easy for a few days with both knees out, then having to go through it twice -_- Besides, you seem to be doing a wonderful job, making sure she is comfortable!  








I'm picturing Noodle burying the kangaroo "can't let mum get it... I'll put it here... yeah... she'll never find it here!"


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Dec 30 2004, 02:22 AM
> *Later she ate some small dead fish.  I don't know what it is in English...maybe Mee can say.  It's Mulchi in Korean.  She LOVED them.
> 
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=26244*


[/QUOTE]

anchovies ?
koreans eat dried anchovies thats a little bit seasoned with different ingredients for side dishes, i love them too !

wow, u feed them GOOD food !! yum...

im glad that Cookie is recovering, she'll be fine in no time!!


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## suzanne (Nov 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Dec 30 2004, 03:58 AM
> *YUCK!  So that is what I licked?!?!
> 
> ......To be sure that they hadn't been salted or anything, I licked the entire side of one of the fish.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=26248*


[/QUOTE]


you could also run the food (or fish) under water and then dry with a paper towel rather than lick it.
as for the pills, i don't know if you are feeding them whole while disguised in soft food, but i smash canaille's glucosamine tablets into powder and mix it in with her boiled chicken liver. she doesn't even know she's having a pill...
well that little cookie is in good hands and i wish her (and you) a quick and safe recovery


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

DMZ, just want to mention to be careful with the heating pad. It is easy for them to get burned. My first Maltese, Rosebud, had a very, very serious burn on a large portion of her back after being on a heating pad during surgery..... took months to get over it and her hair never grew back at the burn site... (This whole episode is a long, horrible story!) But just be very careful....


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Dec 30 2004, 08:13 PM
> *Ah, no worries.  The heating pad is actually a mattress pad.  It's wrapped around the outside of the cage.  Inside the cage, she lays on a dog bed...the small blue one that was in the pictures on the other thread.  She gets no heat from the bottom--it all comes from the sides being covered with the pad.....it's warm air.  Really rather nice and toasty...Noodle keeps sneaky in there during the day when she's not in there.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Oh, I see... that makes sense and that is a great idea!







As you could probably tell, I was picturing her lying on the heating pad!!


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

I was away since December 18 and just caught up with this thread. I am glad Cookie is doing ok after her surgery. I am very interested since Alex will have surgery on his leg on Tuesday. Glad also that YOU are ok too.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

Glad to hear that Cookie is doing good. Hopefully you will be able to get some more sleep soon.


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## Mystify79 (Apr 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Dec 31 2004, 09:33 AM
> *EDIT:  I'm going to keep posting on this even when there isn't much to say.  I would have loved to have a thread like this to read before her surgery, so I'm going to be sure that it's available for others.  On Wednesday, I'll take pictures of her knees before and after the stitches are removed.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=26531*


[/QUOTE]
Poor little Cookie! I'm so glad you are posting updates because now I have an idea what to expect and tell my sister what to expect when Palbert has this surgery. And you're writing style rocks so I really am able to get a great mental picture of what it's been like for you two. Keep up the good work!







And speedy recovery wishes to Cookie!


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

DMZ,you are doing a wonderful job keeping us posted on poor Cookie.We all care and it helps that you let us all know whats going on.Hugs&Kisses to her from us all.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Dec 31 2004, 10:33 AM
> *EDIT:  I'm going to keep posting on this even when there isn't much to say.  I would have loved to have a thread like this to read before her surgery, so I'm going to be sure that it's available for others.  On Wednesday, I'll take pictures of her knees before and after the stitches are removed.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=26531*


[/QUOTE]

Yes, please keep posting on this thread! It will indeed be so very helpful to anyone else who goes through this.... You're providing a real service here!









So glad things are going well....


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## adorableaccentsdogbows (Aug 9, 2004)

I'm so sorry I missed this thread. I was going through a bit of a rough time. It sounds like you and Cookie have been going through a rough time yourselves. I hope that all is better in the new year. You'll be in my thoghts and prayers.
Kelly


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

DMZ, I hate to mention this but do you think maybe a little something to keep her calm would be good... such as a little Benedryl? I'm generally not in favor of drugging them but wonder if in this case for a few days if it would help in the healing process ??


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Dec 31 2004, 09:48 PM
> *Well, she's being good now.  She's sleeping on my lap.  I MIGHT possibly consider giving her a little something, but I've never seen Benedryl here.  Wish I could give her something that would make her relax...maybe then she'd pee.  She hasn't peed in 28 hours now.  When she got put out for surgery, the vet said that she peed and peed and peed and the poo seemed to never stop coming.  Brings new meaning to the phrase, "anal retentive".
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I truly understand your frustration with the not peeing..... I've "been there" and know that anxious feeling of wanting them to do it so badly. And ah, the relief when they finally do! Yes, I bet if she were relaxed more she would "go".....


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

if u havent seen benadryl over there look for diphenhydramine it is the same thing...thats the generic form...just read the active ingredient and if u see diphenhydramine then thats benadryl







good luck


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

It seems to me like a mild sedative would be easier for her and for you. I wouldn't hesitate!


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Dec 31 2004, 09:48 PM
> *but I've never seen Benedryl here.  <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=26666*


[/QUOTE]

hey, do u want me to buy u some Benedryl from here and give it to u when i go to Korea? i dont mind at all, i just wish Cookie will get better

if u want anything else, i'll be more than happy to get u more stuff u need since u'll be buying me yummy tofu

(also, i was curious, how do u communicate with ur Korean vet? does he speak English? just curious







)


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## adorableaccentsdogbows (Aug 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom_@Dec 31 2004, 08:38 PM
> *DMZ, I hate to mention this but do you think maybe a little something to keep her calm would be good... such as a little Benedryl? I'm generally not in favor of drugging them but wonder if in this case for a few days if it would help in the healing process ??
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=26661*


[/QUOTE]

I've never used benedryl or anything else except the occasional antibiotic. My kids have to take so many meds I've built up a phobia LOL. What is the dosage and also what are the effects aside from it being an antihistamine?


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

dosage: 2-4 mg/kg i would start off w/ 2mg/kg

adverse effects: most commonly seen are CNS depression (lethargy, somnolence), and anticholinergic effects (dry mouth and urinary retention). the sedative effects of antihistamines may diminish with time. GI effects (diarrhea, vomiting, anorexia), are a possibility.

may cause paradoxical excitement in cats.


so looks like you shouldnt use this DMZ...what pain meds is she on...i can look it up in my drug handbook to see if they can cause urinary retention.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Jan 1 2005, 10:07 AM
> *dosage: 2-4 mg/kg i would start off w/ 2mg/kg
> 
> adverse effects: most commonly seen are CNS depression (lethargy, somnolence), and anticholinergic effects (dry mouth and urinary retention).  the sedative effects of antihistamines may diminish with time. GI effects (diarrhea, vomiting, anorexia), are a possibility.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Gosh that is interesting about "urinary retention". I had no idea that medicine could cause something like this... as they say, "you learn something new every day". That's a good point that one of her pain meds is causing this problem. DMZ, can you perhaps have the vet write down the names of the drugs so LadyMontava can look them up for you? And perhaps check with your vet and see what he has to say about this lack of urination ....


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

It is not unusual for urinating and defecation to be few and far in between the first few days after surgery while the dog figures out how to go comfortably. I would carry her out to her normal spot outside and stand her up. Let her move around a little to figure it out. You can sling a towel under her belly to help her move easier and support her if she wants to squat.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

sounds like the pill w/ the "R" on it is rimadyl chewable..thats the pain med...it doesnt have that side effect. the other one might be an antibiotic called cephalexin or i might be wrong..prob is just a side effect of the surgery..call the vet and see if you need to do n e thing.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Jan 1 2005, 07:33 PM
> *She has pulled her leg free from the bandage again.  I have no idea how.  She does this at night while I'm asleep.  I think she wants her legs free so she can pee.  JMM, I am considering taking her outside, believe me.  The problem is that she cannot take the cold and it's only 26 outside (though this is the highest it's been in days) AND the vet warned me Parvo is everywhere.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

DMZ, do you think the Bite Not collar would work in her situation? Or if you can't get one of those, maybe a small terry towel around her neck? Here is a photo of the Bite Not......


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## suzanne (Nov 23, 2004)

put her next to the sink, turn on the tap and wait...










pssst: have rag ready


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

i think K/C meant to use the collar to prevent her from getting the bandages off.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadyMontava_@Jan 1 2005, 08:24 PM
> *i think K/C meant to use the collar to prevent her from getting the bandages off.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=26796*


[/QUOTE]

Thanks! Yes, that's what I meant!!









The collar limits the flexibility of the neck. BTW it must not be uncomfortable because Catcher would stand so still for me to put it on him... he almost seemed to like it!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Jan 1 2005, 08:52 PM
> *I just got back from the vet.  He took the bandage off the other leg and cleaned both knees.  Then he tested them.  While he was testing the right knee, I could feel the knee pop out several times.  My hand was on her stomach, supporting her.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Oh gosh, bless your heart. I feel just terrible about what you are going through. I can just imagine how overwhelming it is trying to deal with all of this...


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

aww thats unfortunate...that happened to my friends boston...he had 2 surgeries on one knee...its now great but she refuses to have his other knee done now..but his other leg isnt showing n e symptoms. of course if the first vet did the surgery the way the second one did then it wouldnt have needed the second surgery. there are many ways to fix it...and some knees require more aggressive manipulation than others.


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## Sunshine (Aug 20, 2004)

I hope Cookie gets better soon DMZ...







So sad to hear .... 

Hugz from me & Abby


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

After reading your posts, I wonder if it is worth buying a cage. If Cookie got restless in it with both legs operated on, what is it going to be with only one leg ?? He will get nuts in there. I think I will use Rescue Remedy to calm him down. I hope Cookie won't need another surgery.


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

yay!! Cookie Pooped !!!!
u must be sooo happy !!!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Yea! I'm so glad she finally "did it"!


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

Awww. I'm sorry that you and Cookie are going through so much right now. Yay for you for trying to focus on the positives - like dogs peeing and pooping like crazy! LOL. I'll keep my fingers crossed that she won't need another surgery. Poor baby!


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## adorableaccentsdogbows (Aug 9, 2004)

Yay







I'm glad she was able to go potty. I'm so sorry to hear that Cookie (and you) are going to have to go through this again.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Hopefully she won't need a second surgery. I'm glad the bandages are off. I'm sure she'll be walking well enough to potty normally soon. 

I went with the more aggressive surgery on Mikey's knee -- the same one they would do on a large breed dog. It had a longer recovery time, but he is pretty rough on his legs so I felt in his case, it was the better option. Hopefully she'll do just fine with what has been done.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

yay! i'm so happy for you and cookie


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## Laceys mom (Nov 12, 2004)

I hope that both of your are okay. I have a cat who broke his leg when he was a kitten. I know how hard it is to keep them down. My poor baby got really good at getting his split off. He was at the vets on a daily basis. I know first hand what it is like trying to get it back on. All that moving and fighting you. Finally my vet gave me a mild sedative for Spoozie. It was better in some ways and in others it was just horrible. He had a hard time peeing. I would hold him upright in his catbox...what fun that was! He would fall face first in the litter. What a mess. You and Cookie will get through this. You will be tried. The best thing you can do is take it one step at a time.


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## adorableaccentsdogbows (Aug 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Jan 3 2005, 09:05 AM
> *First, thank you everyone for all the support.  It really means a lot and helps me to keep going.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

It'll probably be a piece of cake comparred to what you'veendured lately. You're doing great







Boy I could really use spell check


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I don't know what surgery she had and bandages tend to be surgeon's preference as to whether or not they use them and how long they stay on. With a very unstable leg, a bandage is often used to keep it imobilized for a time. Otherwise it tends to be the surgeon's preference. Mikey didn't have a bandage and his surgeon encouraged having him walk on the leg within a few days of surgery (but at a very slow, controlled rate). I have to admit Mikey's surgery knee was better than his other knee by the time we went for our 6 week recheck. That is all despite the fact they cut his tibia and wired it back together! The immediate physical therapy was great in his case. Each case, however, is very different. If you trust your surgeon, then stick with what they say. If they don't seem concerned, then it probably is not a big deal. Most of my post-op orthopedic surgery cases are either traditional cruciate repairs or TPLOs (another cruciate repair method). Very few are bandaged by the orthopedic surgeon, and the ones that are tend to be older dogs and not TPLOs (I imagine because the TPLOs tend to swell).


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Jan 3 2005, 09:21 AM
> *Most of my post-op orthopedic surgery cases are either traditional cruciate repairs or TPLOs (another cruciate repair method). Very few are bandaged by the orthopedic surgeon, and the ones that are tend to be older dogs and not TPLOs (I imagine because the TPLOs tend to swell).
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=27038*


[/QUOTE]

Jackie, you're so knowledgable about all this medical stuff!







Are you a vet assistant, tech, nurse.... ???


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Jan 3 2005, 01:11 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jackie, you're so knowledgable about all this medical stuff!







Are you a vet assistant, tech, nurse.... ???
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=27123
[/B][/QUOTE]


Vet tech...and grew up in the vet's office LOL


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM+Jan 3 2005, 10:02 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]


Vet tech...and grew up in the vet's office LOL
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=27321
[/B][/QUOTE]

Wow... we're really lucky to have someone with your background on SM.... I can say for myself, how much I appreciate your generosity in sharing your knowledge and expertise with us!!


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## adorableaccentsdogbows (Aug 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Jan 5 2005, 06:35 AM
> *Well, she got her stitches taken out today.  She's much happier now that her legs are free of bandages.  I found out that when he had done surgery, he discovered that her left knee was actually much worse than the right knee.  He put a metal pin in it.  Too bad he didn't do the same in the right knee since it's not doing so well.  It's looking more like she won't have to redo her surgery, but so much depends on how she behaves for the following month.  She is still under house arrest.  She must be caged when I'm not watching her.  No jumping allowed whatsoever.  Yeah right.  She jumps IN the cage.
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Take a deep breath and try to relax. You know how they play off of your emotions. You have to believe that time is going to make things better. You're a good mom and you and your little ones will get through this together. It's wonderful to hear that another surgery probably won't be in order.








Kelly


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

DMZ--I hope all is well for you. You should listen to Kelly(above post)!







Take care


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

I really hope things improve quickly for you so you can relax. Kodie and I send hugs!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

DMZ, Will you and Mee still be getting together? She posted that she was in Korea now.... ??


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

A new job and Cookie's surgery and the move! Lots of things in a short amount of time. That's a lot of stress. But things will return to normal now. It's a new beginning.


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I'm sorry you are under so much stress. I am glad to hear that the surgery might not have to be repeated and that the stitches are out.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

ok i'll catch a plane right now...will i make it LOL


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