# Do you hate your neighbors too?



## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

Ok, about a month ago, my next door neighbors had a BBQ in thier driveway, which if they stood on their tippy toes they could see over our wooden fence. Well, this is a pretty decent area, not poor area by any means. Well, they brought their friends over, I could tell they were drinking and smoking pot. They had kids there and everything. But...my problem was that I guess they saw a rat or possumin the huge tree I have in my backyard, and they decided to pull out a pellet or bee bee gun and try to start shooting it! This went on for some time until my bf got really pissed off and decided to write a note warning them that if they pull that crap anymore we were going to call the cops. They stopped.

Well, my backyard neighbor who moved in about 1/2 year ago, went through a divorce and kept that house and kicked the people out that were renting it. Well, I have Hibiscus that are huge and instead of having a brick fence these big bushes provided privacy. Well, on the right side he had a tree that blocked the view into his yeard. Well, his wife must have liked that tree cuz right when he moved in he tore that sucker down for no reason. So there is a huge gap in the backyard where we can see into their yard and they can see into ours. And they are super loud when having their parties.

We bought this house 2 years ago because of the privacy of the yard. And the guy said he was going to build a fence back there...6 months ago. What a jerk. I want to move, but...

My bf and I are very quite and never bother anyone...Anybody else hate their neighbors?

~Elegant


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

I'd hate to admit it, but I do hate lots of my neighbors. It just seems like no one around here has any consideration for anyone else. This one couple has two dogs that look like a bichon/poodle mix, at least that's what I think, and they run off leash barking at every squirrel, person or trash can they see. Now, I do have 2 dogs and they do bark, but I don't leave them outside to bark all afternoon. In fact, I end the walk/playtime outside early if my boys keep acting up. People block our driveway, throw their trash on our property the day after trash day, etc...I could go on for hours. We live in a pretty expensive neighborhood (I still live with my parents







). There really aren't many friendly/considerate people here.









At my bf's house, the only complaint that I have is that two houses down from us, there is a really big dog. I have no clue what kind of a dog it is, but he's really friendly. The only problem is that he wanders the neighborhood alone and poops every place imaginable. I never thought to look at the ground before I got out of the car in our driveway, but believe me I learned my lesson and I look everywhere before I take a step now (I was wearing flip flops that day







). I think everyone in the neighborhood has asked the owner to pay more attention to the dog and not let him wander onto everyone's lawns, but nothing has worked. 

You're not alone with your feelings -_-


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## Holliberry (Feb 5, 2005)

I live in cul-de-sac with 5 houses, we are in the middle. Hilly woods behind, so its nice and private. We have a neighbor to one side who is the chief of police and on a huge power trip. He had some landscaping done where he raised is property and left this huge slope that he lined at the top (on his side) with these atrocious juniper trees. He refuses to maintain the hillside that he created, and when I go up to do it I have to sneak out or he freaks and threatens to fight my family members or take me to jail (and he has done this with my landscapers too, while they cut MY grass). We caught him cleaning his dog pens and throwing the dirt into my property, and when confronted he flipped out and said he had permission. hes crazy. 

We all know each other around here and most people are OK. Most I like better than ok, but my other neighbor is also a freak- lucky me. He never does anything to his place either and his animals are always getting loose and getting killed (yes its happened many times) and he keeps getting replacements. He doesnt clean up after them and you can smell them from the back yard up to the front street.

You're not the only one. I totally know what its like. Put up a fence yourself if you can.


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## BrookeB676 (Oct 17, 2004)

I guess our neighbors arent that bad, but Im telling you- What is it with people!?!

Our neighbors are annoying, when we first moved in they were nice no "welcome" or anything, but we talked a few times over our fence. Well last summer we had a big monsoon and in Arizona people have rocks instead of grass in their front yards. Well apparently our rocks had gone onto our sidewalk the night of the rain. The next night when we wwere sitting to eat dinner the neighbor and his gf came over while we were eating dinner and told us about the rocks on the sidewalk like expecting us to clean them up that second. He was drunk with a beer in his hand and it was so rude because he still kept talking even AFTER I told him we were eating. Well my poor bf who is sweet as can be and hates to make people mad went outside and started sweeping. Obviously it ruined our dinner BUT to make matters worse we heard banging at 7 in the morning the next weekend and he was replacing all the rocks on the side of our house with LARGER rocks. Ultimately what he did can be viewed as nice but WHO in the world just starts working on someone's side of the house without asking us. I dont know if he thought since it was sort of on his side too, I dont know it was weird. We are a young couple and he is probably in his 40's or so, his gf is probably in her high 20's and its like they look down on us. 

We dont complain about his kids being in the street!


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## denise&chico (Oct 14, 2004)

add me to the list


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Gosh, I guess I'm basically lucky. The main thing is that my neighborhood is very, very quiet. No one ever has a party... well at least if they do, there is no noise to the surrounding homes. My neighborhood has an association (I'm on the board) so if there is a problem that the homeowners can't solve, sometimes there is a rule that covers the situation and the board can help out. 

The thing that I wish, though, is that we were friendlier. When I first moved here, almost all houses were lived in by single women and they were just great. Over time, they have moved and couples moved in and I have never really gotten to know them. I think what makes neighborhoods close is when the residents fit in to a similar demographic. When they have things in common.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I guess I am lucky too. I love my neighbours and my neighbourhood. They are so friendly and helpful. My direct neighbour owned his lot for over 20 years. When I first moved in, he was renting out his home and it was always to wonderful people. 3 years ago ... he knocked down the house and built his dream home. His family came every day to film the entire process..... they are truely wonderful people and I am so happy to have them here. They help us with our yard work and when I get stuck in the snow ... he is always right there to help us shovel. He fixed up our share fence (which is really ours).

My neighbourhood is really quiet so no one really has any parties. It is a shame though how much it is changing. We live in midtown and it has recently become a really popular area because it is quiet yet on the subway line. We now have condo developments everywhere and all the little shops I grew up with have been knocked down or replaced by big commercial chains. It makes me want to cry! 

The demographics also changed a lot. We went from a very Canadian neighbourhood to mostly immigrants (mind you .. I am also an immigrant). My block is one of the only blocks the still have the same people as 15 years ago.

We live one block east and 2 blocks south of the main streets. It is a matter of time before development hits us. My neighbours also has signs up saying they will not approve of any zoning changes.


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I've never had a bad neighbor. We lived in our last neighborhood for 12 years, before moving to MS, and our next door neighbors were our best friends. In fact, I'm going to visit them after Memorial Day. This neighborhood is very quiet. Most people are either retired or work so no one really socializes, but everyone is respectful of each other and very nice. I guess we're really lucky. I can't imagine having awful neighbors.


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## doctorcathy (May 17, 2004)

yeah, i hate my neighbors. and one of them started a fight with me saying that i was "below them" because i rent.







we call her the "alcoholic" now. and then the other neighbor kept parking his trailer in front of my house (when he had room in front of his house) and another neighbor is friends with the alcoholic so he sees my dogs and called them "maniacs". i called animal control on him because he kept having his dog off leash. AND i made sure to call when i was outside and he was outside...and i spoke really loud. 

OH! and then they started doing ****. like my back neighbor would throw things at gruffi. then a week ago someone opened the gate to my backyard (knowing that we have the dogs out there a lot) and then a couple days after that....they went into my backyard and went to the control panal thingy for the electricity---and turned off one of the switches at 10pm.









we had to lock are gate now. im pissed off.


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## Lilly521 (May 29, 2004)

I only have a proubly with 1 of my neighbors now, long story. But in my old neighborhood we were the ones everyone hated







my dad would pay the kid across the street like $1 to mow our yard and clean up all the tree clippings, it was just awful.


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## Littlemans Mom (Apr 6, 2005)

Add me to the list that seems to be growing







It wasn't always like this, when we first moved in we loved it here,most of the people around us were retired , they were so nice to us, my Daughter used to say when she walked home from school it was like MR. Rogers lived around here....LOL... but as time went on, one by one the houses sold(as the people aged or passed away) and the new people that moved in are..well, let's just say not very friendly. It would take me a novel to tell all that has gone on


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## rubyjeansmom (Jan 6, 2005)

We are very lucky. We've lived here for 31 years and have seen many changes. But we have really good neighbors now.














We have had a couple of doosy's in between now and then ha ha.







But all is good right now.


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

My mother wins hands down on having the worst neighbor....I kid you not these are good pictures and she has quite a bit of clothes on for her. She is known for her rollerblading in a way to short mini with no panty's or riding her bike the same way. When my mother has company or any new male comes down the culdasac she promtly from one horrific outfit to another and models for him including bending over again sans panty's. For those that dare here is her website. They are seriously crazy. The stories I could tell. Now mind you my mother lives in a very upscale area no one knows where they came from. 


http://exposetvshow.com/index.htm


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dhodina_@May 22 2005, 07:48 AM
> *My mother wins hands down on the worst niebor....I kid you not these are good pictures and she has quite a bit of clothes on for her.  She is known for her rollerblading in a way to short mini with no panty's or riding her bike the same way.  When my mother has company or any new male comes down the culdasac she promtly from one horrific outfit to another and models for him including bending over again sans panty's.  For those that dare here is her website.  They are seriously crazy.  The stories I could tell. Now mind you my mother lives in a very upscale area no one knows where they came from.
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Are you serious?!


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

Yes I am. There are no pic's of her husband he looks like a greaser from the fiftys complete with the leather jacket and black combat boots summer, spring, or fall ( she calls him daddy) too. They are well known for blaring their music and dirty dancing in the driveway. 



> _Originally posted by tlunn+May 22 2005, 07:59 AM-->
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Are you serious?!








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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dhodina_@May 22 2005, 08:04 AM
> *
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Ok- now I am laughing!







I hope that is not rude...







But I really thought you were joking at first.







Sorry... -_- 

Bless your heart is all I can say...






















Is she YOUR neighbor? Or did you move FAR FAR away?


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> > Ok- now I am laughing!
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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

OMG! I truly feel for your mother.......


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn+May 22 2005, 09:06 AM-->
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Ok- now I am laughing!







I hope that is not rude...







But I really thought you were joking at first.







Sorry... -_- 

Bless your heart is all I can say...






















Is she YOUR neighbor? Or did you move FAR FAR away?








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I think there may be some confusion... in your first post it sounded like it was your mother who was the bad neighbor... I see now that it is your mother's neighbor... right?


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

[/QUOTE]

I think there may be some confusion... in your first post it sounded like it was your mother who was the bad neighbor... I see now that it is your mother's neighbor... right?
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b
















You are correct. Leave it to me to make that mistake. I need more coffee.


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## CandicePK (Nov 11, 2004)

We are very very lucky. We sold our house almost two years ago and bought my FIL's house. We did this after he became sick and had to move in with us since his house was larger and in a quieter neighborhood.

What's unusual about our street is that kids who grew up on the street, have now bought houses on this same street as adults. Some of their parents still live in the original houses and the kids moved away for a while and then back to the block. None of us are real partiers and if we are having a house-party most of the neighbors are invited so it's not a problem lol. 

Their is one family behind us that no one likes for reasons I won't get into here, but everyone just avoids them.


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## HollyHobbie (Apr 12, 2005)

I know I am very lucky we have wonderful neighbors. On one side of us is an elderly couple that has lived in thier house for 40 years. They are the sweetest people. They always bring over chicken soup is someone is sick, bakes pies for us for our birthdays and don't mind the noise our boys make. They say it is "music to thier old ears" . I think they just don't hear well. LOL....But my husband always clears thier walk when we have snow (like once a year) gets their papers and puts them on thier porch when it is raining and such...

on the other side of us is a rental house and the owner lives across the street in front of us. When we first moved it it was a party house and the guys used to throw thier beer bottles in our yard on the weekend...and they never mowed and my hubby is a freak about our yard...so I broke them of that...I started collecting all the bottles and putting them up so when thier grass got really high i tossed them all in thier yard and so when they mowed they kept hitting the bottles and had to stop and pick them all up. lol they never did it again. They moved after about 5 months...then and older couple moved in and they were super nice and loved the boys. they would come over and push them in the swings and such until the lady got a sudden illness and died and the man moved now no one has lived there for 3 years. Which is fine by me. lol.

We are hoping to buy my inlaws house within the next year when they move to thier retirement home on the lake and they also have wonderful neighbors.


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## Holliberry (Feb 5, 2005)

That is the funniest thing I have seen\heard in a long time. She has got to provide endless entertainment for the neighborhood.


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## Carol Ann (Dec 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by HollyHobbie_@May 22 2005, 06:37 AM
> *on the other side of us is a rental house and the owner lives across the street in front of us. When we first moved it it was a party house and the guys used to throw thier beer bottles in our yard on the weekend...and they never mowed and my hubby is a freak about our yard...so I broke them of that...I started collecting all the bottles and putting them up so when thier grass got really high i tossed them all in thier yard and so when they mowed they kept hitting the bottles and had to stop and pick them all up. lol they never did it again. They moved after about 5 months...
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We live in a planned community, which I love. If someone's grass gets too long, or their yard looks bad, or they leave their Christmas lights up a few days after the prescribed date for removal, they get a notice. For the most part, our neighbors are very very nice. My only complaint is that one family owns two dogs twice the size of the kids that walk them, and while the kids do have them on the leash, they let them poop wherever the doggies want to poop, which sometimes includes my front lawn. There are regulations for that here, but they are kids. The result is a pile of poop that would make an elephant proud!







I've never been able to catch them in the act, but see them at other homes doing the same thing.









Compared to some here (and dhodina wins hands down







), I consider myself lucky!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dhodina_@May 22 2005, 09:10 AM
> *Where is Nicole she lives in my mothers town.  I bet she has seen them around.
> 
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I haven't seen Nichole on here in a quite a while, now that you mention it. I checked her last post and I see that she has erased all of her posts except for putting emoticons in each one ?? Wonder what is going on? Maybe she had the same internet stalker problem that another member had ???


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## Laceys mom (Nov 12, 2004)

I had a horrible neighbor at my old house. He has lived there his whole life...grew up in the house and is now in his 50's. None of the neighbors like him, we all like his wife but not him. I never gave this guy any problems...did everything I could to avoid him. He knew that I liked to sleep in on the weekends so he would take his Harley motorcycle and start it right next to my bedroom window at 8 am in the morning. He would leave it there running. My windows would literally shake from the noise. I would be sound asleep and the next thing you know I would be sitting straight up in bed. Finally had enough and called the police. Was told nothing they could do. Two summers ago the neighbors put in a inground pool. Beautiful pool. This guy decided to help the guys putting in the pool, they weren't working fast enough for him. He went outside and at the time he had a piece of cement that needed to come up so he decided he would break it up himself. After about 30 minutes of hitting the cement he missed and hit is foot. Did lots and lots of damage. I hate to say it but I felt no pity for him. He had to be in a cast for about 7 months so he couldn't swim in his new pool nor could he push his Harley by my window!!


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

I think there may be some confusion... in your first post it sounded like it was your mother who was the bad neighbor... I see now that it is your mother's neighbor... right?
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You are correct. Leave it to me to make that mistake. I need more coffee.
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I DID think it was your mom and had to leave for church before I could reply back to that!







Sorry! But the way the first post read, it DID sound that way to me....I was truly feeling sorry for you! Now it is just a funny story!


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## mousern (Apr 18, 2005)

Well, we've lived in military housing for the majority of the last 20 years. We've had good and bad neighbors but probably the worst was while we were stationed in England (late 1980's). The family next door had obnoxious/rowdy/unruly kids, the parents fought all the time, we watched as the mother had "boyfriends" over when the husband was TDY on numerous occassions, the walls were paper-thin but that didn't stop the yelling/throwing of things/banging of the headboard/etc. I was so glad that we only had to live in that house for six months!! 

Our neighbors at our last base were OK except for one across from us who had "boyfriends" over all the time too, at least we didn't have to listen to them! 

Our neighbors at our current base have been great until the last couple of years. There is a younger couple next door, probably in thier early/mid 20's, who smoke. They constantly are throwing thier cigarette butts on the driveway and they end up in our side of the shared driveway or our yard. I'm about tempted to buy/make them a butt can so maybe they'll get the message. I'm tired of picking up their trash...I think the next time I'll build a little pile of cigarette butts on their side and maybe they'll get the idea! Across the street is a jerk who constantly watered our cars when they were parked on the street. We have hard water here so everytime they watered, our cars would end up with massive mineral buildup. When we tried to ask them to adjust their water so it wouldn't hit the cars/street, they just said "How do you expect us to keep our grass green?!" Excuse me...last time I heard saturating a car doesn't make the grass grow!!! Sorry...I digress...

We don't talk to any of our neighbors anymore because they seem to all have a "I don't give a d**n" attitude. I'm just waiting for the next 2 1/2 years to go by so that we can finally move when the DH finally retires (he'll have been in 26 years). Our base is on the BRAC closing list so buying is out of the question (we should have YEARS ago) and we have so much stuff that it would just be a pain to move into a rental now...2 1/2 years and counting...


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

From the website:

Classically trained in violin at The Manness Conservatory and Ballet she later used her dancing in clubs and played a stripper in the movie "Short Hairs". Modeling in and around Chicago and playing small parts in films she set her sights on using her mind after getting a Masters in Interdisciplinary Arts at Columbia and doing her final thesis The Super heroine at The Randolph Street Theatre. Performing at "Sexfest" at "The Blue Ryder Theatre" which was covered in "New City" was her first professional performance of her one-woman show which she would later take on the road or shall we say on the air. 





Sounds like a porn star......classically trained in violin and Ballet!?


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Pico's Parent_@May 22 2005, 04:32 PM
> *From the website:
> 
> Classically trained in violin at The Manness Conservatory and Ballet she later used her dancing in clubs and played a stripper in the movie "Short Hairs". Modeling in and around Chicago and playing small parts in films she set her sights on using her mind after getting a Masters in Interdisciplinary Arts at Columbia and doing her final thesis The Super heroine at The Randolph Street Theatre. Performing at "Sexfest" at "The Blue Ryder Theatre" which was covered in "New City" was her first professional performance of her one-woman show which she would later take on the road or shall we say on the air.
> ...


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All that is BS.... We all personally think she is a man.


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## rubyjeansmom (Jan 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by dhodina+May 22 2005, 03:57 PM-->
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All that is BS.... We all personally think she is a man.
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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

"All that is BS.... We all personally think she is a man."

*That is EXACTLY what my bf said!* :lol: 

~Elegant


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

After reading all your stories.. i'm scared to move out of my parents place! haha.. I'm scared of the neighbors I might encounter! Then again I always wanted a house that isnt sitting right next to another house... I kinda want more space/privacy between houses. I dont wanna live in a development for this reason. My parents have BAD neighbors. The one man on the next block (his house is behind ours) HATES dogs. He's a nasty man that yells at everyones dogs.








The people to the right of our house are slobs. They have tons of problems too... domestic abuse, drinking problems, parties, leaving their windows open when they are naked, all different things... they even lost their pet snake in the house and who knows where it is now! It better not be anywhere near our house!


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## puppylucy (Jan 8, 2005)

i'm sorry about your neighbors! they sound like real jerks


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

I AM A FULL TIME RVER. SO WHEN I AM AROUND SOMEONE WHO IS A JERK, WE JUST HOOK UP OUR RV AND LEAVE. WE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 9 YEARS. EVERYTIME I THINK ABOUT BUYING ANOTHER HOUSE, I GET A LITTLE SCARED. THIS IS SUCH A FREE WHEELING LIFE STYLE. NOT SURE I WANT TO BE CAGED IN AGAIN :new_Eyecrazy: BY THE WAY MY NAME IS PAULA, AND TONIGHT IS MY FIRST TIME ON THE FORUM.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

For all of you who have close neighbors, I sympathize. I live in the middle of my property which extends to the point that I am virtually in my own little world. My gate is locked, and it's very private. When my children were growing up, we put in a gate through our pature so the boys could go back and forth to each other's house without getting one the road (they did this on go carts, then golf carts, or in old trucks before they could drive). My other neighbor and I have done the same. Rather than coming out his gate and opening mine (he knows how), he just rides over through the pastures. They are there for me, and I for them, if needed. I am 20 minutes from the cityand ten minutes from a major grocery and the beloved Walmart, but when I come home, I'm in my own piece of heaven.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LucyLou_@May 31 2005, 11:46 PM
> *For all of you who have close neighbors, I sympathize.  I live in the middle of my property which extends to the point that I am virtually in my own little world.  My gate is locked, and it's very private.  When my children were growing up, we put in a gate through our pature so the boys could go back and forth to each other's house without getting one the road (they did this on go carts, then golf carts, or in old trucks before they could drive).  My other neighbor and I have done the same.  Rather than coming out his gate and opening mine (he knows how), he just rides over through the pastures.  They are there for me, and I for them, if needed.  I am 20 minutes from the cityand ten minutes from a major grocery and the beloved Walmart, but when I come home, I'm in my own piece of heaven.
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That's the kind of place I want to have someday!!!!


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

I guess we are lucky. We have good neighboors. Meg on the left is a single woman with two rescue terriers. She takes in my mail when we are out of town. Dolores on the right, is also a single woman. She bought the house with her sister who died from pancreatic cancer 2 years later. For a while her son lived with her with his 2 bulldogs. Very well behaved dogs. They didn't bark and pooped on their own lawn. Now her daughter is living with her. The neighboors before them were very nice too. We split the cost of the fences when we re-fenced. Everybody really on our street is nice. We had only once nasty people on our street (the kids mostly), but we told the owner of the house and he made the people move out. He found his house inside in real bad shape.


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## NC's Mom (Oct 23, 2004)

I despise my newest neighbors. No zoning where I live. I live in a three story building. I'm on the second floor and a bar moved into the first floor. Now, I'll grant that once construction was finished, they never played music loudly and their patrons are quiet when inside, but there is a small park just across this little street outside my window....and as the weather gets nicer, there are more and more and more drunks out there singing, fighting, puking, yelling, and smashing their beer bottles all over the park. I'm amazed that anyone lets their children play there amidst all that broken glass. And the kids who dig in the sand....that really scares me. I wonder how many of them leave the park bleeding? And the sign, ugh, the sign. They put up this incredibly bright sign just outside my bedroom window. At night, it's bright enough to see colors inside my room. I live in a two room place, so now I have to sleep in the kitchen/storage room just to be able to sleep.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by NC's Mom_@Jun 5 2005, 06:53 PM
> *I despise my newest neighbors.  No zoning where I live.  I live in a three story building.  I'm on the second floor and a bar moved into the first floor.  Now, I'll grant that once construction was finished, they never played music loudly and their patrons are quiet when inside, but there is a small park just across this little street outside my window....and as the weather gets nicer, there are more and more and more drunks out there singing, fighting, puking, yelling, and smashing their beer bottles all over the park.  I'm amazed that anyone lets their children play there amidst all that broken glass.  And the kids who dig in the sand....that really scares me.  I wonder how many of them leave the park bleeding?  And the sign, ugh, the sign.  They put up this incredibly bright sign just outside my bedroom window.  At night, it's bright enough to see colors inside my room.  I live in a two room place, so now I have to sleep in the kitchen/storage room just to be able to sleep.
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Oh, gosh... that is awful!!! Did you see the Seinfield episode where the Kenny Rogers chicken place was outside his building and it was sooo bright at night? You situation reminds me of that... 

Anyway, isn't there any sort of "black out" shade you can get to block out the light from the sign? Having to sleep in the kitchen sounds horrible!!!


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## NC's Mom (Oct 23, 2004)

Oh, in the beginning, I did velcro black poster paper to the windows and it was lovely and dark....but then I was so groggy in the morning. I was used to the sun starting to rise around 5 am and when the alarm went off, it was still dark--horrible. If I sleep in the kitchen area, I don't need to use those posters or my alarm clock. It's much better this way.


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