# Breeders in Poland - giving puppies 7/8 weeks old



## kilodzul (Oct 7, 2013)

I wanted to share my thoughts after my long search for right purebreed puppy in Poland. I talked to many breeders from whole country and the thing that really surprised me is that all of them, even the most expensive and respectable, were selling their puppies and giving them to new home at 7, sometimes 8 weeks. Because I knew that American Maltese Association recommends taking puppies over 12 weeks old, I asked my breeder to keep the puppy I've chosen few weeks longer and she agreed - but as the only one of all breeders I talked to.

And now I know it was good idea. Sure, Maltese dogs in Poland are a bit bigger than U.S. dogs (the smallest adult Maltese girl I know is about 7.5 lbs) but they're still tiny and fragile at 7 weeks old, and even my (11 weeks old, 3 lbs at that time) girl almost got hurt a couple of times because of her puppy curiosity. And then those people with 7 weeks old puppy leave them alone for all day because of work, school etc. So irresponsible!

Now I try to encourage people on polish websites to take puppies home a bit later, but I wonder how can this situation be changed on bigger scale. 
(Why would people want such young puppies anyway? I just don't get it.)


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

I'm so glad you asked her to keep your puppy with it's mother for a few more weeks.

I've heard that puppies in Australia are also given away this young. It's sad... But I'm glad you at least found a breeder who would do this for you.


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

My daughter's friend just got 2 sisters, Long Haired dachshunds at 8 weeks, and wonders why she can't get the house trained yet??? So glad you found a breeder to keep them for another month!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Julia, so happy you were insistent on pup staying w/mom. Can you share who your breeder is? I do know that most E Europeran dogs are bigger, but this has to do w/more than size---it is development as you know.
Maybe you will initiate some changes! That would be positive.
Your girl looks like she has a very nice pigment!


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## Alexa (Aug 6, 2009)

Julia, first I want to thank you for your post and kind work trying to change breeders habits on selling puppies on this early time.

May I ask you where your baby is from? 
She looks adorable! 

Concerning the size I know that the european standard (FCI) is between 3 to 4 kg but it may range. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_(dog)


Alexandra :wub:


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## Leila'sMommy (Oct 20, 2012)

You're doing a great thing in trying to get the word out that they should stay with their mother longer and also that you asked your breeder to keep yours longer too! It's a slow process in getting things like this to change. But you have to start somewhere, right? Maybe you can talk to your local news stations and ask them to do a segment on TV about it. Print out some information on the importance of toy breeds staying with their mother and litter mates for at least 12 weeks to back up what you're telling them. Good luck and congratulations on your new fluff. I'm sure you're so excited!


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## kilodzul (Oct 7, 2013)

@Deborah - yeah, it's like people don't know anything about development and biology of dogs... they would have less trouble if they have waited a little longer.
@Sandi - I feel so sorry for those little pups taken away from mum so early, it has to have impact on their development. I remember someone saying on one of polish forums that their puppy was so scared for the first few days that it stayed in the corridor and didn't want to explore the rest of the house... it's not normal.
And thank you! Yes, she has cute black nose, we'll see if it changes during the winter. Your dogs have nice pigment too! And they look so similar on that photo, are they siblings?
@Pam - it is a great idea! The media loves topics like that, especially since there has been first puppy mill closed in Poland recently. I'll talk with my friend in university radio first. 
Yep, I'm very excited! It's amazing to see how she gets stronger, faster and smarter with every day. <3

To those interested in the breeder, the kennel name is White Paradise.


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## Canada (Jun 4, 2009)

Welcome to SM!  What an awesome name you chose: Cashmere!
That is so wonderful that you got her breeder to keep her a little longer.
What a wonderful Maltese Mom you will make. 
My Dad is Polish but I don't know the language, unfortunately.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

kilodzu
@Sandi - I feel so sorry for those little pups taken away from mum so early said:


> Yes, and you probably know the Sire to both---(Kitzel)JWW. Ch. Shinemore's Orient Express to Marquess/Dam: "Joyous Wonder" to Marquess. (Liesl)same sire as Kitzi, Dam: ICh. Sinphony of Venice "Sheyla".


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## kilodzul (Oct 7, 2013)

Canada said:


> Welcome to SM!  What an awesome name you chose: Cashmere!
> That is so wonderful that you got her breeder to keep her a little longer.
> What a wonderful Maltese Mom you will make.
> My Dad is Polish but I don't know the language, unfortunately.


Thank you so much! ^^ I'm trying, although I feel a bit bad after reading posts in this forum and I'm starting to wonder if I should spoil my girl more.
Oh, that's interesting! Well, polish language is hard to learn - sometimes I think that even Polish people don't know this language.  So your Dad must know English very well? (sorry for curiosity, it's always interesting to me how families with mixes nationalities work)



edelweiss said:


> Yes, and you probably know the Sire to both---(Kitzel)JWW. Ch. Shinemore's Orient Express to Marquess/Dam: "Joyous Wonder" to Marquess. (Liesl)same sire as Kitzi, Dam: ICh. Sinphony of Venice "Sheyla".


Yes, I know the Sire - and one of polish breeders has sister of Liesl, from the same Sire and Dam - DiamondParadise Bichon i Maltese Kennel


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

kilodzul said:


> Yes, I know the Sire - and one of polish breeders has sister of Liesl, from the same Sire and Dam - DiamondParadise Bichon i Maltese Kennel


 Lisi-- had only one sibling in her litter/boy (L-Overdose). She is from another litter of same parents. Lisi looks more like the Italian side (& is small).


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## kilodzul (Oct 7, 2013)

Well, either way all dogs from this Sire look gorgeous - I always stop to squeal over the cuteness of your signature.


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## Tashulia25 (May 19, 2013)

Personally, for my self I would love to get puppy at 8 weeks if puppy eats dry food already but
1.I am experienced with Maltese puppy (now even have experience with taking care from 2 days old)
2. I am home and if I am not I have playpen to lock puppy and avoid any chance to get in troubles
For unexperienced person I would be afraid to give puppy for 6 months or even later lol


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

Tashulia25 said:


> Personally, for my self I would love to get puppy at 8 weeks if puppy eats dry food already but
> 1.I am experienced with Maltese puppy (now even have experience with taking care from 2 days old)
> 2. I am home and if I am not I have playpen to lock puppy and avoid any chance to get in troubles
> For unexperienced person I would be afraid to give puppy for 6 months or even later lol


I think people also make the 12 week recommendation so puppy can stay with his mom(the dog mother) and littermates longer. It doesn't have a lot to do with owner experience and capability. 


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

eiksaa said:


> I think people also make the 12 week recommendation so puppy can stay with his mom(the dog mother) and littermates longer. It doesn't have a lot to do with owner experience and capability.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


You are correct - there are a lot of things that the puppy learns from mom and littermates between 8 and 12 weeks. For example, people say that the puppy is learning "bite inhibition" at that age and I think we all know what little puppy teeth feel like! It has nothing to do with the experience and capability of the owner.


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## Tashulia25 (May 19, 2013)

eiksaa said:


> I think people also make the 12 week recommendation so puppy can stay with his mom(the dog mother) and littermates longer. It doesn't have a lot to do with owner experience and capability.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


No I understand your point and from one side I agree, I like younger pups as they easier adjust to the owner. I am looking now at my Teddy Jr. he doesn't have doggy mom, doesn't have siblings but he has me who is teaching him everything, I even growl with him when we play. I just say that I like to be with younger pups , even it is more work with them but I love it. Look at my Teddy Jr. , look at all those videos I posted of him. Does he looks like stressed puppy? That is me whom he gives stress all the time but I love him to death


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## kilodzul (Oct 7, 2013)

It's not even about being able to eat normal food, it's just that I think that such young pups are not mature enough to switch home. Ok, example: today some girl posted a question on polish website about maltese, worried that one week ago she bought 7 weeks old puppy and he's not eating, has diarrhea, doesn't move, lies or sleeps all the time. Now, I suggested to test his sugar levels, but all the other answers went somewhere like this: "Don't worry, all puppies are like that in the beginning! Mine didn't eat and was to scared to move from his bed for whole first week!". Idk about your experiences with puppies, but in my opinion puppies should be curious and full of life, not traumatized from too early separation from mom and siblings. I didn't have problems like this even the first day Cashmere arrived to me.


Tashulia25 said:


> No I understand your point and from one side I agree, I like younger pups as they easier adjust to the owner. I am looking now at my Teddy Jr. he doesn't have doggy mom, doesn't have siblings but he has me who is teaching him everything, I even growl with him when we play. I just say that I like to be with younger pups , even it is more work with them but I love it. Look at my Teddy Jr. , look at all those videos I posted of him. Does he looks like stressed puppy? That is me whom he gives stress all the time but I love him to death


No disrespect, because you're doing wonderful work caring for such young puppy with special needs, but it's too early to say if this way of raising will have affect on his later development and behavior as adult dog. I think it's important for puppy to know that people are people and dogs are dogs and there are different rules and behaviors applied for them i.e. playful growling and biting is reserved for other dogs, not people. Then again, dogs are amazing and very adaptable creatures.


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

kilodzul said:


> It's not even about being able to eat normal food, it's just that I think that such young pups are not mature enough to switch home. Ok, example: today some girl posted a question on polish website about maltese, worried that one week ago she bought 7 weeks old puppy and he's not eating, has diarrhea, doesn't move, lies or sleeps all the time. Now, I suggested to test his sugar levels, but all the other answers went somewhere like this: "Don't worry, all puppies are like that in the beginning! Mine didn't eat and was to scared to move from his bed for whole first week!". Idk about your experiences with puppies, but in my opinion puppies should be curious and full of life, not traumatized from too early separation from mom and siblings. I didn't have problems like this even the first day Cashmere arrived to me.
> 
> No disrespect, because you're doing wonderful work caring for such young puppy with special needs, but it's too early to say if this way of raising will have affect on his later development and behavior as adult dog. I think it's important for puppy to know that people are people and dogs are dogs and there are different rules and behaviors applied for them i.e. playful growling and biting is reserved for other dogs, not people. Then again, dogs are amazing and very adaptable creatures.


:goodpost: well-stated!


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

Tashulia25 said:


> No I understand your point and from one side I agree, I like younger pups as they easier adjust to the owner.


I don't think I agree with that. I got Mieka when she was 6 months old. She adjusted to our household in a matter of hours, if not days. Gustave on the other hand was shy and scared for the first 3 days and hid at the back of his crate. He was 12 weeks old. I think adjusting to the owner really depends on the dog. And even if your statement was true, in my opinion it's not worth separating a pup from his mom 2 weeks earlier just so he can adjust better.



Tashulia25 said:


> I am looking now at my Teddy Jr. he doesn't have doggy mom, doesn't have siblings but he has me who is teaching him everything, I even growl with him when we play. I just say that I like to be with younger pups , even it is more work with them but I love it. Look at my Teddy Jr. , look at all those videos I posted of him. Does he looks like stressed puppy? That is me whom he gives stress all the time but I love him to death


I commend you on the work you are doing. It is better than nothing for little Teddy. But I do not agree that it is better than him staying with his mom. Unfortunately you can't help him and have the mom there too. You are doing the best you can given the circumstances, but I don't think you growling at him makes up for the fact that his doggie mom isn't there.


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## Canada (Jun 4, 2009)

kilodzul said:


> Thank you so much! ^^ I'm trying, although I feel a bit bad after reading posts in this forum and I'm starting to wonder if I should spoil my girl more.
> Oh, that's interesting! Well, polish language is hard to learn - sometimes I think that even Polish people don't know this language.  So your Dad must know English very well? (sorry for curiosity, it's always interesting to me how families with mixes nationalities work)


Yes my Dad knows English very well...cause he can't speak much Polish. :blush:
He was born in Canada's oldest Polish settlement, Wilno, Ontario. 
His parents spoke Kaszubi Polish to each other when they didn't want their 15 kids :w00t: to know what they were saying, and spoke English to the kids.

And I'm sure you spoil your Cashmere enough everyday with love! :wub:


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## Dominic (Nov 4, 2012)

Tashulia25 said:


> Personally, for my self I would love to get puppy at 8 weeks if puppy eats dry food already but
> 1.I am experienced with Maltese puppy (now even have experience with taking care from 2 days old)
> 2. I am home and if I am not I have playpen to lock puppy and avoid any chance to get in troubles
> *For unexperienced person I would be afraid to give puppy for 6 months or even later lol*


*What are you talking about being afraid of give a puppy at 6 months old? *



Tashulia25 said:


> No I understand your point and from one side I agree, I like younger pups as they easier adjust to the owner. I am looking now at my Teddy Jr. he doesn't have doggy mom, doesn't have siblings but he has me who is teaching him everything, *I even growl with him when we play*. I just say that I like to be with younger pups , even it is more work with them but I love it. Look at my Teddy Jr. , look at all those videos I posted of him. Does he looks like stressed puppy? That is me whom he gives stress all the time but I love him to death


Natalia,

As much as you are doing good with this puppy I don't think you have experience enough to suggest that a dog would adjust better if taken away from their dog's mom earlier. That is against all the information from breeders, trainers, etc. 

No matter how good you are with a young puppy, you are not a dog and can not teach him what only a dog can. Also, growling at him sounds very odd to me and you might be doing more harm than good scaring him with such noises.

I have two dogs, one was taken away from his mother at 9 weeks and one at 13. The difference btw both at young age towards bite inhibition was HUGE, just to mention one point. 

To finish, I am not saying this just to talk back to you, I do believe we should be responsible while posting information that can reach out so many people that are here to educate themselves on how to raise their dogs as much as I am. I've learn a lot on SM and hope to keep learning.


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## Tashulia25 (May 19, 2013)

Dominic said:


> *What are you talking about being afraid of give a puppy at 6 months old? *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you read that i said that I growling at hi when we play? Not in bad way at all, trust me he is not scared at all . I got my big Teddy at 12 weeks old and it took him about a weeks to adjust, I got Elizabeth when she was 10 weeks old and she came like a queen , she even argued with parrot  I know the ethical rules but again, I am telling my stories and my experience. Yes, Bebe is our rescued 6 years old maltipoo adjusted right away but because she knew me for over a month, as I was at rescue every day to take care of her there. We all have different opinions and stories and i am telling only my own experience in this case.


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