# anyone heard of karefree kennel in mo



## oliveira101903 (Nov 27, 2007)

Hi,
I just got my little maltese a month ago from akennel in my area and when i recieved her registration pepers in the mail . T he papers said she was from karefree kennel in mo. I absolutely love her she is adorable but , I am nervous this might be a mill. Has anyone ever heard of this kennel any comments would be great.
thank you


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

I can't find anything online about a "Karefree Kennel" in MO. The only one I found is in Indiana.

Where did you get your puppy from? What area do you live in?

GOOD LUCK!
Melanie


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Do you have a name that can be looked up? I also tried to find karefree in Mo and didn't see it. Sounds like your 'breeder' may have been a broker. How old was your baby when you got her?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I agree. It sounds like your breeder was really a broker. Since Missouri has the largest number of puppy mills in the US, I'd bet she came from a mill.

Do you have the breeder's name?


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

> Hi,
> I just got my little maltese a month ago from akennel in my area and when i recieved her registration pepers in the mail . T he papers said she was from karefree kennel in mo. I absolutely love her she is adorable but , I am nervous this might be a mill. Has anyone ever heard of this kennel any comments would be great.
> thank you[/B]


Hi! Who is listed as the breeder on your papers? AKC has to have a person's name. It sounds like you aren't from MO? Who is your little malt registered with? (AKC, ACA, CKA APRI) Being nosey aren't I? Enjoy your puppy.
Tina


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## oliveira101903 (Nov 27, 2007)

Hello
The registry is america's pet registry inc. the breeder is Fred & Karen Stith her sire is karefre mulligan man her dam is karefre jingles all the way. i got her from pittsfield nh but , when I looked up the breeders name that was on her registry it came back that these breeder where from Osage beach MO 65065. This was my first time buying a puppy and unfortunatly did not know what i know now. Well we love her anyway!!!!
Thank You


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> Hello
> The registry is america's pet registry inc. the breeder is Fred & Karen Stith her sire is karefre mulligan man her dam is karefre jingles all the way. i got her from pittsfield nh but , when I looked up the breeders name that was on her registry it came back that these breeder where from Osage beach MO 65065. This was my first time buying a puppy and unfortunatly did not know what i know now. Well we love her anyway!!!!
> Thank You[/B]


http://prisonersofgreed.org/ListA2006.pdf

I found her name listed here, so it sounds like your 'breeder' wasn't on the up and up with you at all. 

Regardless of where she came from, love her and SHARE PICS! We love pics here!


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## casa verde maltese (Apr 7, 2007)

> Regardless of where she came from, love her and SHARE PICS! We love pics here![/B]



DITTO!!!!


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## Paulita (Feb 11, 2008)

> Hi,
> I just got my little maltese a month ago from akennel in my area and when i recieved her registration pepers in the mail . T he papers said she was from karefree kennel in mo. I absolutely love her she is adorable but , I am nervous this might be a mill. Has anyone ever heard of this kennel any comments would be great.
> thank you[/B]


Hi,

I hope I will put your mind at ease. I live in Missouri and purchased a Maltese from Karen Stith of Karefre Kennel in Osage Beach, Missouri about two years ago. I talked to her over the phone before driving about three hours to get there and was just as pleased in person with everything I saw. It is not a puppy mill, far from it. Karen breeds maltese, yorkies and shitzus and provides lots of love and care. It was obvious when I was there that all the puppies were well taken care of and received lots of attention. She was also very selective of who she sold her puppies to, but I'm not sure how your puppy got to NH. Her website is www.karefrekennel.com and you can contact her through the site, and there's a phone number on there as well. I haven't talked to her for a while, but from what I know she'll probably be glad to hear from you and tell you anything you want to know to put your mind at ease.

Hope that helps.

Paulita


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> I hope I will put your mind at ease. I live in Missouri and purchased a Maltese from Karen Stith of Karefre Kennel in Osage Beach, Missouri about two years ago. I talked to her over the phone before driving about three hours to get there and was just as pleased in person with everything I saw. It is not a puppy mill, far from it. Karen breeds maltese, yorkies and shitzus and provides lots of love and care. It was obvious when I was there that all the puppies were well taken care of and received lots of attention. She was also very selective of who she sold her puppies to, but I'm not sure how your puppy got to NH. Her website is www.karefrekennel.com and you can contact her through the site, and there's a phone number on there as well. I haven't talked to her for a while, but from what I know she'll probably be glad to hear from you and tell you anything you want to know to put your mind at ease.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> Paulita[/B]


regardless of what she told you or what you saw, karen stith of karefree kennel is not a reputable breeder, and this i gathered from the site you referred us to. of course that should not prevent you, however, from loving your dog any less. next time, if there is one, i think some research should be done to find yourself a responsible, reputable breeder who breeds for the betterment of the breed. 

JMHO.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Welcome to SM. I'm sorry whoever sold you your baby wasn't on the up and up.
This is a great place to learn about backyard breeders, mills and brokers so next
time you can make a more informed decision in purchasing one of these wonderful creatures. You can also help others to make an educated decision too. :smilie_daumenpos: 
I hope you share with us your adventures and pictures of your new baby.


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## ShilohsMom (Jun 25, 2007)

Why is it that every time a "kennel" is identified on here as less than reputable a supposed "happy customer" usually arrives onto our board on that very thread--- first post and all? Paulita did you join with the express intent of defending this breeder- funny how you found this post from 6 weeks ago almost immediately upon joining.


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## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

> Hi,
> I just got my little maltese a month ago from akennel in my area and when i recieved her registration pepers in the mail . T he papers said she was from karefree kennel in mo. I absolutely love her she is adorable but , I am nervous this might be a mill. Has anyone ever heard of this kennel any comments would be great.
> thank you[/B]


Welcome to SM! I hope you are enjoying your little one wherever or however she came to you! Maltese are just the sweetest little dogs in the world! They love to be loved! 

Welcome AGain! 

Cyndi


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## Luna'sMom (Oct 7, 2007)

> Why is it that every time a "kennel" is identified on here as less than reputable a supposed "happy customer" usually arrives onto our board on that very thread--- first post and all? Paulita did you join with the express intent of defending this breeder- funny how you found this post from 6 weeks ago almost immediately upon joining. [/B]


Funny about that :smilie_tischkante: 

I wouldn't buy a puppy from "karefree kennels" and here is why:
There are 3 breeds
There is no pedigree information (not even pictures of parents)
Some of the 'puppies' look older than stated, DIRTY, un-brushed and most are males (keeping females for more breeding?)
There is no information about the breeds themselves
No information about AKC or show involvement
There are no pictures of the house/kennel
Although they state on their website that you have to be careful about buying a puppy mill puppy it is all to obvious that *karefree kennels is a PUPPY MILL*...


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## Paulita (Feb 11, 2008)

> Why is it that every time a "kennel" is identified on here as less than reputable a supposed "happy customer" usually arrives onto our board on that very thread--- first post and all? Paulita did you join with the express intent of defending this breeder- funny how you found this post from 6 weeks ago almost immediately upon joining. [/B]


Hi, it's Paulita. Actually I joined the site so that I could respond to this thread. I wasn't aware of spoiledmaltese.com until I was I came across when doing a google search to find the website for Karefre Kennel because I was referring them to a friend. When I clicked on the link and read this thread I just wanted to give my opinion on what I think is a good, humane breeder so that the original poster could be sure her puppy was not from a puppy mill. I will agree with your later post that Karen's website is not the best. It would be good if she gave better information and showed the parents, etc. But don't judge her breeding practices on lack of web developing skills. And the reason for listing more male puppies on the site is probably because the females sold first, not that she's keeping them for more breeding. 

When I got our Maltese, I wanted a family pet, not a show dog. But it was still important to me that I would not be supporting someone running a puppy mill, or breeding puppies into a hostile environment. What I found when I went there was an older, yet adequate facility, lots of dogs barking, and Karen walking around loving on all the dogs, calling them by name. A previous customer stopped by while I was there to show off her yorkies as they were on their way to a dog show and she wanted Karen to see them all dressed up in the new outfits she made them. 

Yes, her dogs are pedigrees. She showed me the papers on the parents, and took me to see the parents so I would know where Holly had come from. She doesn't enter her dogs in shows, but many of her clients do. She was proud to show pictures that people had mailed her of their dogs. It seems many of her customers keep in touch after purchasing a puppy, and many go only to her when they want another one. I kept in touch with her by email for a few months, but haven't spoken with her since.

One last point, and I'll let it go. When our Maltese was about 8 months old she starting limping. We found out she had Legg-Perthus Disease. Upon doing research I found out that this is likely genetic, although it can lay dormant for many generations before showing up. When I called Karen to let her know this she was very concerned, and said it was the first puppy in her 20 years that has had this. She really questioned me to make sure I was using the best vet for her treatment. She consulted with her vet also to make sure the doctor's agreed on the diagnosis and treatment. Long story short (kind of), Holly had surgery, which was very successfull, and Karen paid the bill. She then wrote me a later to let me know that she had contacted all of the other owners to make them aware so they could have their puppies x-rayed. She also had both the parents fixed so they wouldn't be bred any more, not knowing which parent it might have been passed down from. 

I said all this to say, Give the lady a break. Don't be so quick to judge someone because they might not fit the mold or show fancy pictures of what you consider a reputable breeder. She follows all the rules, has a vet come by weekly to check on them, and gives them lots of love and attention. That's all you need.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=523800
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Though I think your response may be honest, I do believe the reasons for
not buying are also legitimate. 
By the way, did she give you proof the parents and other related dogs were
spayed/neutered or was it just her word? Lots of byb's talk the talk.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

it's not about "fancy shows" or "fitting molds" it's about producing quality dogs, even if they fall into the pet category.


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## lacey (Oct 17, 2005)

Both of my babies are from Karefree Kennel and I've not had any problems with them. I love my babies to pieces! :biggrin:


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## oliveira101903 (Nov 27, 2007)

> Both of my babies are from Karefree Kennel and I've not had any problems with them. I love my babies to pieces! :biggrin:[/B]



Hi, 
Iwould love to some more info about your puppies like who is there sire and dam just curious if they were the same as mine .

Iwould also like to know how big they are not that it matters just curious because I did not get to see where my baby really came from so any info about other pups from this kennel I would love to hear about.
I love to her pieces no matter what just curious though.
Thank You,
Crystal


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## lacey (Oct 17, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=532859
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I will have to look at their papers to see the names. But Daisy is about 8 lbs. She's a little hefty LOL. Toby is 4 lbs. The two of them aren't related. We got Daisy when she was 12 weeks and when she was around 6 months we wanted another so we got Toby. He's just the sweetest thing. He's such a lapdog. Daisy is crazy though. She is so funny.

Toby's Sire is Keller's Kojak and the Dam is Karefre Little Prancer. He was born August 9, 2005. Daisy's Sire is Hey Boy Beau and the Dam is Karefre Wiggles. She was born February 9, 2005.

If you'd like to see more pics of my babies I have a MySpace page. The link is at the bottom. I also have Daisy and Toby a MySpace page if you have one of those. Their page is...toby and daisy myspace


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## jazak (Feb 12, 2008)

Just trying to educate myself, what seperates a puppymill from a byb? How do they end up on the puppymill list? Just want to understand all this stuff so I know how to look when I am ready for another baby.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> Just trying to educate myself, what seperates a puppymill from a byb? How do they end up on the puppymill list? Just want to understand all this stuff so I know how to look when I am ready for another baby.[/B]


What we commonly call puppymills are large commercial kennels that wholesale puppies through brokers and pet shops. They are required to be licensed by the USDA which enforces the Animal Welfare Act. Puppies are mass produced in barns that operate as puppy factories which earned them the nickname of "mills".

Breeders who sell puppies directly to the consumer at the retail level are exempt from the USDA. The defintion of a backyard breeder is subject to much debate, but here's a good comparison between byb's and reputable breeders. 

http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Fair/1901/chart.html

BTW, backyard breeders don't necessarily have to raise puppies in their backyard. Some of them raise their puppies in their home in darling little nurseries, but their breeding practices still make them a backyard breeder.


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## jazak (Feb 12, 2008)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=532994
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the information. Was very helpful.


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## moshami (Feb 11, 2009)

QUOTE (oliveira101903 @ Dec 26 2007, 10:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=493807


> Hi,
> I just got my little maltese a month ago from akennel in my area and when i recieved her registration pepers in the mail . T he papers said she was from karefree kennel in mo. I absolutely love her she is adorable but , I am nervous this might be a mill. Has anyone ever heard of this kennel any comments would be great.
> thank you[/B]


Contrary to the opinions stated by others, this is a highly respected breeder. I have personally visited this breeder and over the course of 20 years I have purchased 4 maltese puppies from them. I was very careful to fully research them before making each purchase. They were highly recommended by area vets and I contacted other customers before even visiting them. They are a small at home breeder - definitely not a puppy mill or broker. I was extremely pleased with the environment. The owners were very hands on and loving. Their place is very clean and the puppies were well cared for. I highly recommend them to everyone and I hate to hear negative things being said based on speculation. It is ridiculous!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (moshami @ Feb 11 2009, 12:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724085


> QUOTE (oliveira101903 @ Dec 26 2007, 10:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=493807





> Hi,
> I just got my little maltese a month ago from akennel in my area and when i recieved her registration pepers in the mail . T he papers said she was from karefree kennel in mo. I absolutely love her she is adorable but , I am nervous this might be a mill. Has anyone ever heard of this kennel any comments would be great.
> thank you[/B]


Contrary to the opinions stated by others, this is a highly respected breeder. I have personally visited this breeder and over the course of 20 years I have purchased 4 maltese puppies from them. I was very careful to fully research them before making each purchase. They were highly recommended by area vets and I contacted other customers before even visiting them. They are a small at home breeder - definitely not a puppy mill or broker. I was extremely pleased with the environment. The owners were very hands on and loving. Their place is very clean and the puppies were well cared for. I highly recommend them to everyone and I hate to hear negative things being said based on speculation. It is ridiculous!
[/B][/QUOTE]

The breeder in question is a USDA licensed high volume commercial breeding facility. Check the USDA list yourself .... or are you the breeder we are discussing?

Small, "at home" breeders are not required to be licensed with the USDA so what you are saying simply cannot be true.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

This is the message posted on Karefree Kennels web site under "About Us":

We have been raising yorkies, maltese and shih tzus for twenty years. Each dog ihere is our pet and is loved, individually cared for, groomed and petted on. Therefore, we are very selective when it comes to our customers. Each potential owner is interviewed before we allow our puppies to follow them home. Please understand that we have taken care of each of these puppies since birth, so we are very protective!

We notice that there are some "nuts" out there saying that we are a broker who buys other people's puppies and resells them. They are also saying that our puppies are older than indicated or larger than indicated on our websites. We encourage all potential puppy adoption families to visit us in person and see who we are, and who our puppy parents are.

These accusations are FALSE and we thank those families that come to our defense on the internet and are very saddened and sorry to see they themselves then become a target of the offensive, slanderous individuals who promote those idiotic theories. We do not know their agenda and have no idea why they are doing this unless they are trying to raise puppies, don't know what they are doing, and are having difficulty and harbor some jealousy instead of asking for help from us or other experienced breeders of healthy, lovely little puppies. So sorry to have to address this untruthful and negative topic on our puppy website. Some folks are just soured with life and try to do the same to others. 

Our dogs keep us happy every day of the year and they can do the same for you! 

Karefre Staff
Our family takes "hands on" care of our puppies and dogs day and night. We have friends that come often to play with, cuddle and help bathe the babies and adults. They know that being around dogs brings up your spirits and lowers your blood pressure.  
Our grandson watched us with the dogs and at the age of two began scooping up feed them. Good job, Jaxon! 
Karefre Kennel Environment


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (pammy4501 @ Feb 11 2009, 01:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724188


> This is the message posted on Karefree Kennels web site under "About Us":
> 
> We have been raising yorkies, maltese and shih tzus for twenty years. Each dog ihere is our pet and is loved, individually cared for, groomed and petted on. Therefore, we are very selective when it comes to our customers. Each potential owner is interviewed before we allow our puppies to follow them home. Please understand that we have taken care of each of these puppies since birth, so we are very protective!
> 
> ...


*is speechless*


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## godiva goddess (Nov 19, 2007)

QUOTE (pammy4501 @ Feb 11 2009, 03:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724188


> This is the message posted on Karefree Kennels web site under "About Us":
> 
> We have been raising yorkies, maltese and shih tzus for twenty years. Each dog ihere is our pet and is loved, individually cared for, groomed and petted on. Therefore, we are very selective when it comes to our customers. Each potential owner is interviewed before we allow our puppies to follow them home. Please understand that we have taken care of each of these puppies since birth, so we are very protective!
> 
> ...


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :smrofl: :smrofl: :smrofl: :smrofl: 

this is too funny! I esp love the "nuts" "jealousy" and "lower blood pressure" parts.....LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

QUOTE


> Contrary to the opinions stated by others, this is a highly respected breeder. I have personally visited this breeder and over the course of 20 years I have purchased 4 maltese puppies from them. I was very careful to fully research them before making each purchase. They were highly recommended by area vets and I contacted other customers before even visiting them. They *are a small at home breeder* - definitely not a puppy mill or broker. I was extremely pleased with the environment. The owners were very hands on and loving. Their place is very clean and the puppies were well cared for. I highly recommend them to everyone and I hate to hear negative things being said based on speculation. It is ridiculous![/B]



One of the business sites says they have $76,000 a year in sales.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Here is a report on a puppy purchased through a pet store from the Stith's.

ID: -1070
Date Submitted: 12/16/2003
Breed: Yorkshire Terrier
Date Purchased: 8/12/2003
Breeder: Stith, Fred & Karen
Petshop: Kota
Details: My dog is insecure and gets scared easily and by everything. He is AKC registered and looks nothing like a yorkie, in fact I live in Mexico and the Sociedad Canofila Mexicana (like the AKC here) will not register the dog here as they say it isnt really a purebred. 2 different vets have told me the same thing, they don-t see my dog as a yorkie but a mixed breed.


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

The website states that one of their Yorkies is 6 months old and full grown at 3#. That is difficult to know.


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## oliveira101903 (Nov 27, 2007)

I would like everyone to know that we love snowflake either way if her breeder is reputable or not but, I must say I have learned alot from this website and definetly know better next time. Snowflake is about 18 mo. now and her back legs pop the vet says they dont seem to bother her as of right now but, probably will when she is older.
I would like to thank everyone here for what they have taught me !!!!!!


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## diamonds mommy (Feb 2, 2009)

So quick question! My cousin has Pure Bred AKC Shitzu (spelling :huh: ) any ways she breeds her dogs for our family ONLY. Im getting one when shes ready to breed them again and she sells them for like 100 bucks (to family ONLY) and some friends and thats because she says that she just wants to share the love of the breed to those who would not be able to afford the Price she paid for hers. But not really for profit just a gift to the family. So Im getting one next breeding! But Is she cosidered a back yard breeder even though she doesnt advertise or claim her self as a breeder! FYI she said this year will be the last year she breeds her because this will be her 2nd litter and everyone will have gotten one who wanted one

I would have gotten a puppy from her last year but i LOVE the MALTESE breed. :wub: 

sorry for rambling!

Just had to ask.


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## pammy4501 (Aug 8, 2007)

Caveat Emptor. (Let the buyer beware.)


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

QUOTE (Lucy Owns Me @ Dec 27 2007, 01:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=494105


> http://prisonersofgreed.org/ListA2006.pdf
> 
> I found her name listed here, so it sounds like your 'breeder' wasn't on the up and up with you at all.
> 
> Regardless of where she came from, love her and SHARE PICS! We love pics here![/B]



How does a breeder get their name on this list? Is it just the number of dogs they sell or own or the condition of their property or what?

If it goes by the number you sell or have, what are those numbers?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (bbry @ Feb 11 2009, 06:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724276


> QUOTE (Lucy Owns Me @ Dec 27 2007, 01:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=494105





> http://prisonersofgreed.org/ListA2006.pdf
> 
> I found her name listed here, so it sounds like your 'breeder' wasn't on the up and up with you at all.
> 
> Regardless of where she came from, love her and SHARE PICS! We love pics here![/B]



How does a breeder get their name on this list? Is it just the number of dogs they sell or own or the condition of their property or what?

If it goes by the number you sell or have, what are those numbers?
[/B][/QUOTE]

That list is from the USDA which enforces the Animal Welfare Act which requires all large volume commercial kennels who wholesale puppies to be licensed.

Here is more information:

http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/USDA.html


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

If you breed a litter, you are a breeder. 

Yes, she is a BYB because she has not studied the standard, genetics, or structure. She is just tossing two dogs together. The ONLY reason to breed a dog is to produce a BETTER dog in the next generation. This means a healthier dog and a dog that is a better representative of the breed standard. I hope she is aware of the potential health problems she could be selling to her family since I doubt the bitch is from a reputable breeder. 



QUOTE (diamonds mommy @ Feb 11 2009, 03:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724227


> So quick question! My cousin has Pure Bred AKC Shitzu (spelling :huh: ) any ways she breeds her dogs for our family ONLY. Im getting one when shes ready to breed them again and she sells them for like 100 bucks (to family ONLY) and some friends and thats because she says that she just wants to share the love of the breed to those who would not be able to afford the Price she paid for hers. But not really for profit just a gift to the family. So Im getting one next breeding! But Is she cosidered a back yard breeder even though she doesnt advertise or claim her self as a breeder! FYI she said this year will be the last year she breeds her because this will be her 2nd litter and everyone will have gotten one who wanted one
> 
> I would have gotten a puppy from her last year but i LOVE the MALTESE breed. :wub:
> 
> ...


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (JMM @ Feb 11 2009, 07:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724331


> If you breed a litter, you are a breeder.
> 
> Yes, she is a BYB because she has not studied the standard, genetics, or structure. She is just tossing two dogs together. The ONLY reason to breed a dog is to produce a BETTER dog in the next generation. This means a healthier dog and a dog that is a better representative of the breed standard. I hope she is aware of the potential health problems she could be selling to her family since I doubt the bitch is from a reputable breeder.
> 
> ...





> So quick question! My cousin has Pure Bred AKC Shitzu (spelling :huh: ) any ways she breeds her dogs for our family ONLY. Im getting one when shes ready to breed them again and she sells them for like 100 bucks (to family ONLY) and some friends and thats because she says that she just wants to share the love of the breed to those who would not be able to afford the Price she paid for hers. But not really for profit just a gift to the family. So Im getting one next breeding! But Is she cosidered a back yard breeder even though she doesnt advertise or claim her self as a breeder! FYI she said this year will be the last year she breeds her because this will be her 2nd litter and everyone will have gotten one who wanted one
> 
> I would have gotten a puppy from her last year but i LOVE the MALTESE breed. :wub:
> 
> ...


[/B][/QUOTE]

:goodpost: 

Every breed of dog recognized by the AKC has a written standard, a blueprint
of what the dog should look like and act like. These standards were written
so that all would know what a quality example of the breed is and strive to
produce dogs that meet or exceed the standard in health, temperament and
appearance. To be sure you are breeding dogs that meet these standards,
your dogs must be judged by people who have a lifetime of experience among the
breed. Do you know the standard of the Pure Breed Dog? Does your dog
meet this standard according to an AKC Judge? If not, your dog is pet
quality. A pet is to be loved, cherished, trained, cared for, spoiled and
bragged about, but it is NEVER to be bred. No matter how cute or sweet the
dog may be, if it is not up to the standard, you have no business breeding
it.

If you have a purebred dog this does not give you the right to breed it.

Most purebred dogs are not breeding quality. If you breed your pet quality
dog, you are a backyard breeder, whether you breed the dog in your
backyard, garage, living room or an expensive hotel room, the term is still backyard
breeder. 

http://www.adoptarescuepet.org/byb.htm


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## domino_angel (Apr 17, 2008)

QUOTE (diamonds mommy @ Feb 11 2009, 03:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724227


> So quick question! My cousin has Pure Bred AKC Shitzu (spelling :huh: ) any ways she breeds her dogs for our family ONLY. Im getting one when shes ready to breed them again and she sells them for like 100 bucks (to family ONLY) and some friends and thats because she says that she just wants to share the love of the breed to those who would not be able to afford the Price she paid for hers. But not really for profit just a gift to the family. So Im getting one next breeding! But Is she cosidered a back yard breeder even though she doesnt advertise or claim her self as a breeder! FYI she said this year will be the last year she breeds her because this will be her 2nd litter and everyone will have gotten one who wanted one
> 
> I would have gotten a puppy from her last year but i LOVE the MALTESE breed. :wub:
> 
> ...


Sorry, she's a backyard breeder. Now there are many, MANY backyard breeders who "love" their dogs, the breed, and the pups a great deal... But LOVE does not a good and reputable breeder make!! Experience, research, health and genetic testing, and proving your dogs to the AKC standard is what makes a reputable breeder. 

Also, I would bet money that Karefre isn't doing ANY of those things. Breeding ONE breed really well is hard enough, Three is nigh impossible. Period. 

I also find it VERY suspicious when brand spanking new members make their first post about defending someone who is obviously a BYB.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (moshami @ Feb 11 2009, 12:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724085


> QUOTE (oliveira101903 @ Dec 26 2007, 10:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=493807





> Hi,
> I just got my little maltese a month ago from akennel in my area and when i recieved her registration pepers in the mail . T he papers said she was from karefree kennel in mo. I absolutely love her she is adorable but , I am nervous this might be a mill. Has anyone ever heard of this kennel any comments would be great.
> thank you[/B]


Contrary to the opinions stated by others, this is a highly respected breeder. I have personally visited this breeder and over the course of 20 years I have purchased 4 maltese puppies from them. I was very careful to fully research them before making each purchase. They were highly recommended by area vets and I contacted other customers before even visiting them. They are a small at home breeder - definitely not a puppy mill or broker. I was extremely pleased with the environment. The owners were very hands on and loving. Their place is very clean and the puppies were well cared for. I highly recommend them to everyone and I hate to hear negative things being said based on speculation. It is ridiculous!
[/B][/QUOTE]

A "small at home" breeder that makes $76,000 a year? :w00t: 

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_f6j3s


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## Glorybell (Oct 10, 2008)

I wonder if the original poster would share the place she purchsed her pup. Perhaps this would help identify a place to be wary of. If the pup was bred in one state and purchased in another, then either someone bought it and couldn't keep it, or a pet shop/broker is in business with this transaction. I guess I'm just curious about the place in NH where the purchase was made.


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Feb 11 2009, 09:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724414


> A "small at home" breeder that makes $76,000 a year? :w00t:
> 
> http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_f6j3s[/B]




I saw that too, Marj, but it looks like that information has been removed.


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## SicilianRose (Jun 8, 2008)

QUOTE (LadysMom @ Feb 11 2009, 08:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724414


> QUOTE (moshami @ Feb 11 2009, 12:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724085





> QUOTE (oliveira101903 @ Dec 26 2007, 10:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=493807





> Hi,
> I just got my little maltese a month ago from akennel in my area and when i recieved her registration pepers in the mail . T he papers said she was from karefree kennel in mo. I absolutely love her she is adorable but , I am nervous this might be a mill. Has anyone ever heard of this kennel any comments would be great.
> thank you[/B]


Contrary to the opinions stated by others, this is a highly respected breeder. I have personally visited this breeder and over the course of 20 years I have purchased 4 maltese puppies from them. I was very careful to fully research them before making each purchase. They were highly recommended by area vets and I contacted other customers before even visiting them. They are a small at home breeder - definitely not a puppy mill or broker. I was extremely pleased with the environment. The owners were very hands on and loving. Their place is very clean and the puppies were well cared for. I highly recommend them to everyone and I hate to hear negative things being said based on speculation. It is ridiculous!
[/B][/QUOTE]

A "small at home" breeder that makes $76,000 a year? :w00t: 

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_f6j3s
[/B][/QUOTE]

OMG that is a lot for a "small" time breeder. I have also never heard of a small time breeder, breeding 3 different breeds of dogs. They are doing way too much to be just breeding and with the services that they are listing I high doubt they give their animals the appropriate amount of care and attention. Why defend someone whom the government deemed a puppy mill. You know the government investigated this and has the evidence to back their findings. Sounds to me that someone is in a strong case of denial. Anyways, just because your fluff came from a place like this does not mean you stop loving them. It just means that you learn not to make that choice again. By continuing to buy from places like that you are supporting the cause and keeping them in business. We would love to see these places out of business because they are not bettering the breed. They are just causing a lot of these poor puppies pain due to health issues and heart ache for the owners.


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

QUOTE (JMM @ Feb 11 2009, 08:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724331


> If you breed a litter, you are a breeder.[/B]



Then why isn't everyone that sells dogs on this list? I scanned the act & didn't see a number specified that put you on the list. I'm just wondering if every byb should be on that list as well?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

QUOTE (bbry @ Feb 11 2009, 08:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724460


> QUOTE (JMM @ Feb 11 2009, 08:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724331





> If you breed a litter, you are a breeder.[/B]



Then why isn't everyone that sells dogs on this list? I scanned the act & didn't see a number specified that put you on the list. I'm just wondering if every byb should be on that list as well?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Because breeding is not regulated other than at commercial levels in the U.S.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (bbry @ Feb 11 2009, 09:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724442


> QUOTE (LadysMom @ Feb 11 2009, 09:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724414





> A "small at home" breeder that makes $76,000 a year? :w00t:
> 
> http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_f6j3s[/B]




I saw that too, Marj, but it looks like that information has been removed.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Looks like the breeder is still following this thread, huh?


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

What I am trying to figure out is what is commercial level. There are some breeders in the Houston area that seem to have 2 or 3 litters available most of the time and they are not on the list. They do sell their puppies themselves and don't sell to pet stores etc. So, could it be that it only applies to wholesale breeders that sell to retail establishments?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (bbry @ Feb 11 2009, 09:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724460


> QUOTE (JMM @ Feb 11 2009, 08:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724331





> If you breed a litter, you are a breeder.[/B]



Then why isn't everyone that sells dogs on this list? I scanned the act & didn't see a number specified that put you on the list. I'm just wondering if every byb should be on that list as well?
[/B][/QUOTE]



Basically, anyone who sells directly to the consumer is exempt and does not need a license from the USDA. It is the large scale commercial kennels that wholesale puppies that must be licensed. 

If a wholesale breeder makes less than $500 a year and has no more than three breeding females, they are considered "hobby breeders" and do not need a license.

You can look on page 11 for more information:

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/pubs/l&rawa.pdf


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (bbry @ Feb 11 2009, 10:17 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724495


> What I am trying to figure out is what is commercial level. There are some breeders in the Houston area that seem to have 2 or 3 litters available most of the time and they are not on the list. They do sell their puppies themselves and don't sell to pet stores etc. So, could it be that it only applies to wholesale breeders that sell to retail establishments?[/B]


Yes, that's right. They sell directly to the consumer so they are exempt.

As you've probably figured out, that doesn't make them any better than USDA licensed breeders. In fact, their facilities may be much worse as they are not regulated or inspected. 

They just shut down one here in North Carolina a few days ago:

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?id=66449...tion=news/local


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

*Direct Sales—Anyone who sells domestic pets directly to pet owners is 
exempt, regardless of sales volume. Such sales can be made in person 
or by mail. 
Hobby Breeders—Small-scale breeders with gross sales under $500 per 
year are exempt, as long as these sales do not include wild or exotic 
animals, dogs, or cats. If you own no more than three breeding female 
dogs or cats and sell the offspring, into the pet channels only, you are 
exempt. *

Marj, the way I read it, the $500 limit wouldn't exempt you if you were selling dogs or cats.
Looks to me like the criteria is that you sell directly to pet owners. Apparently you can sell any amount of puppies or kittens as long as you don't do it wholesale. I find that a little strange.

It really doesn't even look like you are limited to 3 breeding females as long as you are selling directly to pet owners.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

QUOTE (bbry @ Feb 11 2009, 11:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=724541


> *Direct Sales—Anyone who sells domestic pets directly to pet owners is
> exempt, regardless of sales volume. Such sales can be made in person
> or by mail.
> Hobby Breeders—Small-scale breeders with gross sales under $500 per
> ...


Yes, that's what I said. Any breeder who sells directly to the consumer does not have to be licensed by the USDA

Wholesale  breeders who make less than $500 a year or have no more than three breeding females are defined as "hobby breeders" under the AWA and exempt from licensing.

Does that make sense?


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

Doesn't it look like the $500 cannot include dogs or cats?

*as long as these sales do not include wild or exotic 
animals, dogs, or cats.*

And then the puppies from the 3 females must be sold into the pet trade only - doesn't that take it out of being wholesale? Unless maybe you can sell those puppies to a pet store & that is considered pet channels,

*sell the offspring, into the pet channels only, you are 
exempt. *


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

Sorry I must have stuttered on my post.  Didn't mean to repeat myself again redundantly.


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## fraction (Jan 25, 2009)

Did any of you go to the San Jose 
Malt Show this week-end?There were sooooo many nice 
dogs! I am trying to find a breeder so as to replace my
baby who was stolen! I saw some pretty animals this
this week-end! I am very particular!


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## fraction (Jan 25, 2009)

Did any of you go to the San Jose Malt Show this week-end? There were sooooo many nice 
dogs! I am trying to find a breeder so as to replace my baby who was stolen! I saw some 
pretty animals thisthis week-end! I am very particular, which has it's drawbacks!


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

QUOTE (fraction @ Feb 16 2009, 01:10 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=727528


> Did any of you go to the San Jose Malt Show this week-end? There were sooooo many nice
> dogs! I am trying to find a breeder so as to replace my baby who was stolen! I saw some
> pretty animals thisthis week-end! I am very particular, which has it's drawbacks![/B]



Hi - I would suggest starting a new thread to ask about breeders in your area. Some people may not follow this one, as it's dated.

Good luck!


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