# Wondering about potential grain allergens...



## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

Am I right in saying that corn & wheat (I know there's more, can't think of them) are potential allergens and you should avoid them in your dog's kibble?

I'm finding it difficult to find a simple ingredient prepared kibble that has all that I want it in...or all that I DON'T want. When I get close there always seems to be ONE ingredient (at least) that I know isn't great for them or even bad for them. Even, for eample, there are SO many foods that have "beet pulp" or "tomato pumace" which are rumored to possibly cause tear staining (Ollie does seem to tear stain with tomato pumace). I've POURED over ingredient lists on dog food analysis website and I just can't find the "perfect" one.

FYI--Ollie seems to have an intolerace to chicken and that's why I've always gone with limited ingredient/allergy formulas. I've always fed him natural balance but don't like the new duck and potato formula AND I'm not at ALL happy that the company never informed people that they updated it--it was on their website but NOT on the bags of food. I never would have known had someone here not mentioned it. I don't like companies who work that way.

I wanted to try something w/ rice but their lamb & rice has tomoto pumace. So do MANY other lamb & rice formulas...

When I look into other brands of food there are SO many that have corn or wheat in them...I just can't seem to find the "perfect" food that also won't be impossible to find in stores...(I can't have food shipped b/c I have to buy LARGE bags--like 20 lbs or more b/c mine go through it quickly--YoYo is a big boy at 30 lbs...shipping for 20 lbs is too expensive...)


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Beet pulp and tomato pomace are by-products of the human food processing industry. I'd stay far away from beet pulp, not because of staining, but because beets are genetically modified. If tomato pomace is a by product, what nutrients could there be left in it? I think it is used as a cheap filler. 

What about this kibble? Several people on this forum seem to like using it.

Orijen 6 Fish

_INGREDIENTS
Fresh deboned salmon, salmon meal, herring meal, russet potato, fresh deboned lake whitefish, sweet potato, peas, salmon oil (preserved with vitamin E), fresh deboned walleye, fresh deboned herring, sun-cured alfalfa, fresh deboned flounder, fresh deboned lake trout, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, sea salt, vitamin supplements (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12), mineral supplements (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product._


Nikki does not do well on cooked grains I've tried, which were corn, wheat, oats, barley, rice. I've never tried quinoa, spelt, millet, teff, or amaranth, though. But I can try them at a future time maybe.

Now she gets either sweet potato or white potato for her starch. She does ok on organic cheerios for treats!!!

Ok, I'd better get off the internet and get back to work! LOL


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

I was going to suggest the Orijen 6 Fresh Fish food as well. The only possible problem I could see your two having would be the higher protein content, but it's worth trying I think.

I feed NB Sweet Potato & Venison and have had good results with it...but if I were to try something new it would be the Orijen 6 Fresh Fish. It really does look like the perfect food (if the protein content can be handled).  ...Now I'm thinking about trying it. LOL


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## wooflife (Aug 8, 2007)

Mycotoxins and Aflatoxins are fungus that grow on corn wheat and rice, and are found in dog foods that contain these ingredients. Aside from the fact that dogs need less than 1% grain in their diets these toxins can cause allergies and other health issues. 

Orijen is an excellent kibble as others have suggested I'm not sure if it's readily available to you though. 

Leslie


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

You guys are awesome, thanks!

I'll look into Orijen. I've liked a lot of the premium fish kibbles that I see...they seem to generally have the best ingredients. I bought NB Fish/sweet potato kibble once and I couldn't stand the smell. And I bought the treats and Ollie all but walked away from it--and he eats anything!!


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

QUOTE (camfan @ Jul 20 2009, 12:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=807741


> You guys are awesome, thanks!
> 
> I'll look into Orijen. I've liked a lot of the premium fish kibbles that I see...they seem to generally have the best ingredients. I bought NB Fish/sweet potato kibble once and I couldn't stand the smell. And I bought the treats and Ollie all but walked away from it--and he eats anything!![/B]


LOL, that is too funny! I have heard of quite a few Maltese not liking fish smells...I'm not sure what the Orijen smells like, but I would assume it's pretty potent since they get fresh fish (never frozen) in daily to make it...lol.

London is a NUT for smelly treats/food...She will ROLL on any new smelly treats I give her before eating them! :HistericalSmiley: 

But as far as the smell goes, I would just suck it up and deal with the unpleasant scent if both of the dogs will eat it...LOL...since it is definitely one of the very best dry foods out there. It's like those bully sticks/flossies...ugh, they make me sick when I can smell them, but they are one of the best chews out there for the little ones...and they make them happy...lol :yucky:


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

We use Orijen when we travel and Casanova loves it! It does smell, but apparently that doesn't bother him.


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## roxybaby22 (Feb 25, 2009)

Orijen also has a new formula called "Regional Red" that contains red meat (I'm pretty sure it has no beef or chicken). It's pretty new, so it won't be available everywhere. I will try it as soon as Roxy is done with the 6 Fish (which is great).

You vould look at Orijen's website for the ingredient, here it is (can't copy ingredients on my phone): http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/regio...ngredients.aspx


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

Acana is also from Champion Pet Foods (same manufacturer as Orijen), contains no grains and it has less protein in it. Both the Orijen and Acana are lower in fat than many high protein foods. Acana has Pacifica, a fish formula, as well as Grasslands, which has lamb, fish and egg as protein sources.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

QUOTE (tamizami @ Jul 21 2009, 12:38 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=808006


> Acana is also from Champion Pet Foods (same manufacturer as Orijen), contains no grains and it has less protein in it. Both the Orijen and Acana are lower in fat than many high protein foods. Acana has Pacifica, a fish formula, as well as Grasslands, which has lamb, fish and egg as protein sources.[/B]


Thanks for the tip! We will try Acana fish or Grasslands next!


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Jul 20 2009, 02:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=807724


> Beet pulp and tomato pomace are by-products of the human food processing industry. I'd stay far away from beet pulp, not because of staining, but because beets are genetically modified. If tomato pomace is a by product, what nutrients could there be left in it? I think it is used as a cheap filler.[/B]


Wait, uh oh. My husband is obsessed with beets at the moment. Whole beets and all beets are genetically modified? Is there a list of GMO fruits and veggies for us to reference? Thanks so much!! :biggrin:


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't think that all beets are genetically modified, but sugar beets grown for sugar are, and I'd bet that the beet pulp in dog food is the by product of that.

*REMEMBER: ORGANIC FOODS CANNOT BE GENETICALLY MODIFIED. BUY ORGANIC*

Here's info on GMO foods: 

http://www.responsibletechnology.org/GMFre...pping/index.cfm


About GM beets:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/11/monsantos-genet/

About Monsanto and GM food. Online Video:
http://www.twilightearth.com/archive/envir...ll-documentary/

Video: The Future of Food:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNIM1aNfwcA


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## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

We didn't do well on the lamb natural balance (and the fish was very stinky and opening our storage container was too much for me to handle) but we are now on the venison and I have noticed a great improvement in Hunter's skin, coat, and his tear staining (and he loves it!). I would recommend it to anyone looking for a quality food that is afforable and easily found in most areas in a large variety of sizes. Here is what is in it:

Sweet Potatoes, Venison, Potato Protein, Venison Meal, Canola Oil, Potato Fiber, Flaxseed, Natural Flavor, Choline Chloride, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

I was just looking at both the Orijen 6 Fresh Fish & the Acana Pacifica foods this morning, and I noticed they both have Rosemary in them (used to help preserve the food). I don't know if you are worried about the whole "rosemary can cause seizures" thing (I honestly don't know if I believe that), but I thought I would throw that out there in case you are.


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## wooflife (Aug 8, 2007)

QUOTE (LJSquishy @ Jul 21 2009, 10:42 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=808113


> I was just looking at both the Orijen 6 Fresh Fish & the Acana Pacifica foods this morning, and I noticed they both have Rosemary in them (used to help preserve the food). I don't know if you are worried about the whole "rosemary can cause seizures" thing (I honestly don't know if I believe that), but I thought I would throw that out there in case you are. [/B]



I fed Orijen on and off for about 2 years and never had a problem - but some dogs might have a sensitivity to it. Also when you think about how much rosemary a dog in it's natural element would have consumed it's probably miniscule amounts versus eating a dry food that contains it day in and day out. Rotating through several brands of high quality kibble with varying ingredients could definately minimize the potential risk.


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