# Maltese Bio Acids Test - Have you had it done



## casa verde maltese (Apr 7, 2007)

We've been talking so much about this subject lately that I was just wondering how many SM members had, had the test done. I just had it done on Rugby and it was less $100. (I'll look up the exact amt. later and post).


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

I said "yes" - but I've only had the test done on Tinker :brownbag: - because he came directly from a puppy mill. It looks like my little knucklehead is very healthy and will live a very long time! :thumbsup:


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## jadey (Nov 2, 2006)

i've been thinking about it. i think i will get it done next month.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I do them after they come home routinely (along with regular chem/cbc healthscreen).


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

both my girls had it done but parker hasnt...his regular blood work is always normal so i havent really considered running it on him.


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

I would also love to know how many breeders are testing their sires and dams? Also, if North Central Maltese Rescue tests the rescues?


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## belibaby14 (Mar 21, 2007)

Belinha never had it done, but I'm thinking of having her do it.


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## casa verde maltese (Apr 7, 2007)

> both my girls had it done but parker hasnt...his regular blood work is always normal so i havent really considered running it on him.[/B]


interesting info -thanks.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

parker could still have an abnormal bile acids but being 5 i would think his liver enzymes would start to show something by now...but still possible...maybe i will run it when i have a little more money


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## CeeCee's Mom (Sep 14, 2006)

I am seriously thinking of having it done. What do you ask for with the bile acid test? Isn't there more than one of these test? I guess I am trying to say, I don't want her leg shaved unless the minor test shows up something. I had asked my breeder for it but when it got down to actually buying her, things came up and it was never done. I didn't think too much of it until I saw on SM how important it is. Even if you baby seems healthy does not guarantee that she is. I think I want to know for sure, one way or the other.


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## revakb2 (Sep 8, 2006)

I had never heard of Bio Acid tests until some of our SM babies had problems. My question is what can we do if the test is not normal. Since there is no cure, can knowing there may be problems be helpful or just cause us to be fearful and overprotective?


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

The Bile Acid test is a simple 2 part blood test; one done before a meal (some vets will ask for a 12 hour fast but that is not necessary) and then another blood test 2 hours after a meal. 

If it comes back abnormal, to put your mind at ease you can get the Protein C test done and if that comes back normal it will rule out a liver shunt. The Protein C is another blood test that your vet can draw and Antech Diagnostics (the lab many vets use) will send it to Cornell for the analysis.

Please note: if your dog is older (i.e. older than 4 years), high bile acids could be an indication of any liver disease or damage, such as hepatitis. It does not necessarily mean the dog has a liver shunt.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

*Why do we test bile acids on young, healthy dogs?*

That's a really good question. And no, it is not to create paranoia or worry 

Maltese as a breed have a high incidence of MVD and shunts. A large percentage of the Maltese population is likely affected with asymptomatic MVD. That means these dogs are carriers, but perfectly healthy companions. 

So why do you want to know if your dog is an asymptomatic MVD dog? Because when dogs are older and get sick, the high bile acids are seen and can lead to invasive, expensive, and unnecessary diagnostics. 

Here is an example: My dog Jonathan began having occasional seizures as an adult. The vet tested his bile acids, which came back elevated. He also had a small-appearing liver on ultrasound. It was recommended we biopsy his liver. So he had surgery and we found out he had MVD. Consult with Dr. Center - his liver is not his problem. He just has epilepsy (and he's 10 and perfectly fine by the way - never had any treatment for his liver). 

If I had done bile acids on him as a puppy, we would have known they were elevated. We wouldn't have worried about acquired liver disease when he had a problem later in life. This same situation can happen with dogs who get very ill from gastrointestinal problems. You get elevated bile acid results and panic. 

Another reason is that we do want to catch seemingly normal dogs with significant problems. Shunts are commonly diagnosed in young adult dogs, not always puppies. Single, congenital portosystemic shunts have even been diagnosed in 7+ year old dogs who seemed normal and had normal chemistry panels! 

Another reason we want to know if our dog has an altered blood flow through the liver is that some medications are not liver-friendly, including some used for anesthesia. We don't want a drug like ketamine taking a long time to clear through your pet's system during and after their anesthesia. We want to be cautious with NSAID use. We want to be cautious with our doses with drugs like Metronidazole that are processed through the liver. A little bit of knowledge can go a long way. 

So, yes, I do bile acids on my dogs. I expect that most dogs I test will have mild elevations. Their results are still important. And if they are more elevated than my comfort level, I can do Protein C.


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## jadey (Nov 2, 2006)

question, i called my vet today to set up a bile acid test on my kids. But she mentioned different types?
what do i ask for, or is it same test? she said the test range from 67 dollars to 120 dollars? im confused what she meant by that.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> question, i called my vet today to set up a bile acid test on my kids. But she mentioned different types?
> what do i ask for, or is it same test? she said the test range from 67 dollars to 120 dollars? im confused what she meant by that.[/B]


Some vets offer an in house test. You DO NOT want this. It does not give you an actual number value. 

You want pre- and post-prandial bile acids. That means they take 2 blood samples. Just one is not adequate.


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## BrookeB676 (Oct 17, 2004)

> *Why do we test bile acids on young, healthy dogs?*
> 
> That's a really good question. And no, it is not to create paranoia or worry
> 
> ...


You always have such excellent explanations Jackie. My yorkies are 5 and have always had normal blood panels, but I may consider bile acid testing them. Same with Maya, she will be 4 in June, but has always had normal blood work. We obviously got the bile acid and Pro C with Louis, and thank goodness for the Pro C. 

My question is that you mention "if they are more elevated than my comfort level, I can do a Protein C"

It was my understanding that the actual bile acid result indicates a liver issue, whether it be shunt or MVD. When I mentioned to Dr. Center that Louis's bile acid was only 47, she said that the number didn't really matter as the fact that it was above the normal range meant that there was an issue. So, my interpretation is that the bile acid # doesn't mean much as it fluctuates in dogs with liver issues, but the fact that the number is out of range is the main part. So, a dog with say a 47 bile acid ratio compared to a 147, isn't really different?!? I thought that if your dog had ANY bile acid # above normal, you would want to get the Pro C. Is there an above normal number that is acceptable?

Hopefully my explanation makes sense. I guess I was just trying to understand if you get comfort in the fact that one of your dogs bile acid number is lower than the other, because it was my understanding that that didn't matter.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> My question is that you mention "if they are more elevated than my comfort level, I can do a Protein C"[/B]


As Dr. Center says, abnormal is abnormal. Anything over 25 is abnormal. And once we're past that, you have to make a personal decision on the individual case whether or not you go further with it. That does not mean the numbers of the test are irrelevant. Really high numbers are more alarming. 

If I, personally, with my dog am comfortable with his health based on his chemistry panel and bile acids, I may decide to leave it at that. Its a personal decision.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I have done bile acid tests on all my furkids. I recommend it.


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## casa verde maltese (Apr 7, 2007)

I have another question...

I know that Dr. Jamie had a test down on Paxton before she came home - forgive my laziness in not looking it up - but I know it was after the scare with Pixels high ALT numbers. 

my questions - are - should we now start having the breeders do the Bile Acid test on the pups before purchase? Does that seem a reasonable request?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> I have another question...
> 
> I know that Dr. Jamie had a test down on Paxton before she came home - forgive my laziness in not looking it up - but I know it was after the scare with Pixels high ALT numbers.
> 
> my questions - are - should we now start having the breeders do the Bile Acid test on the pups before purchase? Does that seem a reasonable request?[/B]


I have requested and haven't had a problem...


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