# WDJ recent article on Dry food



## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Just wondering if anyone else has read it yet? I didn't get to read the whole thing and forgot to bring it with me today to the store. But what I did read said that dry kibble is the lowest quality food out there. Even the lowest quality canned is better than kibble.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

I just read it, thanks to you! I feed Bonnie a combination of dry and freeze dried raw. I might just chuck the kibble and feed her all the freeze dried. I know that is a much higher quality but I always thought dry was good for their teeth.

Thanks again for the article, Crystal.


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

QUOTE (Bonnie's Mommie @ Jan 29 2009, 01:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715414


> I just read it, thanks to you! I feed Bonnie a combination of dry and freeze dried raw. I might just chuck the kibble and feed her all the freeze dried. I know that is a much higher quality but I always thought dry was good for their teeth.
> 
> Thanks again for the article, Crystal.[/B]


I just recently switched Jax to Stella & Chewy's b/c of the one post someone had about the Freeze dried.

Jax is pretty much completely switched to Stella & Chewy's Frozen Raw. The Frozen Raw is exactly the same as the freeze dried. The only difference is the Freeze Dried has the moisture taken out (and it's more expensive). He LOVES his food and eats right up. You could easily ditch the kibble and move to the freeze dried or frozen Stella & Chewy's. The raw is better for them, especially the S&C's. 

I've heard that there is major flaws in saying that the kibble is good for their teeth. Something along the lines of, we don't think chips are good for our teeth. The Raw food is suppose to be the best for their teeth b/c it has bones and stuff in it that clean them. However, brushing is really the only way to get tarter off.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I have never been a fan of feeding kibble. I've always fed canned to my dogs.


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## PreciousPrince (Feb 27, 2006)

I haven't read mine yet, but that's what Perri's nutritionist says too. I wouldn't go so far as saying that a can of Cesar is better than an organic kibble though, that's ridiculous to me. But anyway canned is supposed to be better than dry because it's less processed. The order that he gives is raw, home cooked, canned, kibble, best to worst.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

QUOTE (MandyMc65 @ Jan 29 2009, 07:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715504


> QUOTE (Bonnie's Mommie @ Jan 29 2009, 01:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715414





> I just read it, thanks to you! I feed Bonnie a combination of dry and freeze dried raw. I might just chuck the kibble and feed her all the freeze dried. I know that is a much higher quality but I always thought dry was good for their teeth.
> 
> Thanks again for the article, Crystal.[/B]


I just recently switched Jax to Stella & Chewy's b/c of the one post someone had about the Freeze dried.

Jax is pretty much completely switched to Stella & Chewy's Frozen Raw. The Frozen Raw is exactly the same as the freeze dried. The only difference is the Freeze Dried has the moisture taken out (and it's more expensive). He LOVES his food and eats right up. You could easily ditch the kibble and move to the freeze dried or frozen Stella & Chewy's. The raw is better for them, especially the S&C's. 

I've heard that there is major flaws in saying that the kibble is good for their teeth. Something along the lines of, we don't think chips are good for our teeth. The Raw food is suppose to be the best for their teeth b/c it has bones and stuff in it that clean them. However, brushing is really the only way to get tarter off.


[/B][/QUOTE]


Mandy, I am feeding S&C, too! But the freeze dried raw. I live in an itty bitty apartment and don't have room in my freezer for the frozen raw. :brownbag: 

Bonnie loves it! She's been eating it for years, but with the kibble. I'm going to chuck the kibble tomorrow, and just feed her the S&C.


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## BrookeB676 (Oct 17, 2004)

Which canned do you all recommend? I wonder if I could feed louis the S & C with his MVD.


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

QUOTE (Bonnie's Mommie @ Jan 29 2009, 07:50 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715659


> QUOTE (MandyMc65 @ Jan 29 2009, 07:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715504





> QUOTE (Bonnie's Mommie @ Jan 29 2009, 01:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715414





> I just read it, thanks to you! I feed Bonnie a combination of dry and freeze dried raw. I might just chuck the kibble and feed her all the freeze dried. I know that is a much higher quality but I always thought dry was good for their teeth.
> 
> Thanks again for the article, Crystal.[/B]


I just recently switched Jax to Stella & Chewy's b/c of the one post someone had about the Freeze dried.

Jax is pretty much completely switched to Stella & Chewy's Frozen Raw. The Frozen Raw is exactly the same as the freeze dried. The only difference is the Freeze Dried has the moisture taken out (and it's more expensive). He LOVES his food and eats right up. You could easily ditch the kibble and move to the freeze dried or frozen Stella & Chewy's. The raw is better for them, especially the S&C's. 

I've heard that there is major flaws in saying that the kibble is good for their teeth. Something along the lines of, we don't think chips are good for our teeth. The Raw food is suppose to be the best for their teeth b/c it has bones and stuff in it that clean them. However, brushing is really the only way to get tarter off.


[/B][/QUOTE]


Mandy, I am feeding S&C, too! But the freeze dried raw. I live in an itty bitty apartment and don't have room in my freezer for the frozen raw. :brownbag: 

Bonnie loves it! She's been eating it for years, but with the kibble. I'm going to chuck the kibble tomorrow, and just feed her the S&C.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Do you add water to the freeze dried? If you do, it rehydrates it and makes the dogs like it that much more! I use that if I forgot to thaw some out. I also used it dry tonight for training. It's great! Jax will work for it and I don't have to worry about upset tummy since it's his dinner! 

So thanks to you and the OP for this thread!


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

QUOTE (MandyMc65 @ Jan 29 2009, 11:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715675


> QUOTE (Bonnie's Mommie @ Jan 29 2009, 07:50 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715659





> QUOTE (MandyMc65 @ Jan 29 2009, 07:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715504





> QUOTE (Bonnie's Mommie @ Jan 29 2009, 01:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715414





> I just read it, thanks to you! I feed Bonnie a combination of dry and freeze dried raw. I might just chuck the kibble and feed her all the freeze dried. I know that is a much higher quality but I always thought dry was good for their teeth.
> 
> Thanks again for the article, Crystal.[/B]


I just recently switched Jax to Stella & Chewy's b/c of the one post someone had about the Freeze dried.

Jax is pretty much completely switched to Stella & Chewy's Frozen Raw. The Frozen Raw is exactly the same as the freeze dried. The only difference is the Freeze Dried has the moisture taken out (and it's more expensive). He LOVES his food and eats right up. You could easily ditch the kibble and move to the freeze dried or frozen Stella & Chewy's. The raw is better for them, especially the S&C's. 

I've heard that there is major flaws in saying that the kibble is good for their teeth. Something along the lines of, we don't think chips are good for our teeth. The Raw food is suppose to be the best for their teeth b/c it has bones and stuff in it that clean them. However, brushing is really the only way to get tarter off.


[/B][/QUOTE]


Mandy, I am feeding S&C, too! But the freeze dried raw. I live in an itty bitty apartment and don't have room in my freezer for the frozen raw. :brownbag: 

Bonnie loves it! She's been eating it for years, but with the kibble. I'm going to chuck the kibble tomorrow, and just feed her the S&C.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Do you add water to the freeze dried? If you do, it rehydrates it and makes the dogs like it that much more! I use that if I forgot to thaw some out. I also used it dry tonight for training. It's great! Jax will work for it and I don't have to worry about upset tummy since it's his dinner!  

*So thanks to you and the OP for **this thread**!
*
[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, I add warm water to it. It's also good dry if we're out and about at dinner time!

You're welcome! I think this is a great food.


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

QUOTE (BrookeB676 @ Jan 29 2009, 07:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715664


> Which canned do you all recommend? I wonder if I could feed louis the S & C with his MVD.[/B]


Hey Brooke - Dr. Dodds told us absolutely no raw for MVD dogs.....so I stopped feeding S&C's, although mine loved it. I believe that S&C is the highest quality raw food and its the only one I would use if I were to switch to raw again.

I just got my WDJ, so I will be reading through the material tonight. I'm going to beg to differ about all kibble being of lesser quality than the poorest quality canned food. The quote says "even poor quality wet foods usually contain a higher percentage of animal protein (and a much lower percentage of grain) than good dry foods.". The emphasis here is on the word _usually_. I only use grain-free kibble with high protein content and lower fat content (Orijen 6 Fresh Fish). And I mix it with homecooked, unless we're traveling.

I do not think kibble keeps their teeth clean, though. I think grains are the worst culprit for tartar build up on teeth, but I can't recall if I read that somewhere or just thought it up myself.


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

I don't subscribe to Whole Dog Journal so I am going by what you have said and am convinced that Stella & Chewy's is better but I have Buttons on Natural Balance Potato & Duck because of his allergy problems & am scared to try a new food. Any ideas?


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

QUOTE (bbry @ Jan 29 2009, 09:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715748


> I don't subscribe to Whole Dog Journal so I am going by what you have said and am convinced that Stella & Chewy's is better but I have Buttons on Natural Balance Potato & Duck because of his allergy problems & am scared to try a new food. Any ideas?[/B]


Orijen 6 Fresh Fish is an allergy formula - a single, novel protein. Mine love it. 

If you haven't done bile acids, then I would use Orijen. If you have good bile acids, then you can go to Stella & Chewy's - they have a lamb version that also comes in freeze dried. 

btw, Natural Balance is on the WDJ approved Dry Dog Food list. I just don't like it cause of the grains. And I just noticed that Orijen is NOT on there! But they may not participate? I will have to look into this more.....

Here is a good website that discusses other grain free foods: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=grain_free.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

I really like Stella & Chewey's too. Mine LOVED it when we tried it. Unfortunatly Jett's digestive system could not handle the raw. So we have been on Dr. Harvey's for over 6 months and they still LOVE it. And they seem to be thriving on it too. I switch the proteins every week and cook the meat. The article also talked about switching foods regularly so I'm glad I mix up the proteins weekly like Dr. Harvey recommends. You could make it with raw if you prefer. Brooke, the article said that_ "if you want to provide the very best, most natural diet possible for your dog, you'd feed a well-researched, home-prepared diet comprised of fresh foods. Or next best, a well-formulated, commercially made frozen raw or dehydrated diet. Next best would be a top-quality wet food; even poor quality wet foods usually contain a higher percentage of animal protein (and a much lower percentage of grain) than good dry foods."_ So if you want to switch to Dr. Harvey's, you can cook the protien like I do for mine.

And I've read countless articles that state kibble is not better for their teeth. I've not read anywhere that it's worse than canned, but that the old school of thought that they need the crunchy kibble to help clean their teeth is false. Regular brushing and dentals are what's needed for clean healthy teeth. The current research believes raw is best for oral hygiene in the prevention of plaque build up.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Oh gosh... !!!

Is there a link to the article ... did I miss it in this thread??? I'd love to read it....


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Jan 30 2009, 07:59 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715812


> Oh gosh... !!!
> 
> Is there a link to the article ... did I miss it in this thread??? I'd love to read it....[/B]


I know you can subscribe for the magazine to come to you electronically or via mail. I get the hard copy in the mail cuz sometimes I like to read it while taking a bubble bath. :biggrin: I'm not sure you can get it on line without a subscription.

Contact info:
Subscription Services: 800-829-9165 or whole-dog-journal.com/cs
Back Issues,Website Inquiries: 800-424-7887 or [email protected]

This article in the Volume 12, Number 2 February 2009.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

QUOTE (Crystal&Zoe @ Jan 30 2009, 08:09 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715813


> QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Jan 30 2009, 07:59 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715812





> Oh gosh... !!!
> 
> Is there a link to the article ... did I miss it in this thread??? I'd love to read it....[/B]


I know you can subscribe for the magazine to come to you electronically or via mail. I get the hard copy in the mail cuz sometimes I like to read it while taking a bubble bath. :biggrin: I'm not sure you can get it on line without a subscription.

Contact info:
Subscription Services: 800-829-9165 or whole-dog-journal.com/cs
Back Issues,Website Inquiries: 800-424-7887 or [email protected]

This article in the Volume 12, Number 2 February 2009.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Sher, I got the gist of the article from their website home page, http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

You can't read the article on the website unless you are a subscriber. You can sometimes find the mag at petstores and buy a single copy, or subscribe. I am a subscriber and got it yesterday. The same type article on canned was last months.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

QUOTE (K/C Mom @ Jan 30 2009, 07:59 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=715812


> Oh gosh... !!!
> 
> Is there a link to the article ... did I miss it in this thread??? I'd love to read it....[/B]



Sher, at the moment I have mounds of paperwork, but will dig it out and fax it to you, if you like.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

I don't have a fax, but I printed both the canned and dry articles and can answer any questions from them, like "is my food on the list". WDJ says not to reprint and distribute their materials without permission. I don't know how strict that is or what it includes for sure. I think the articles can be purchased from them if you are not a subscriber.

The basic qualifications for the list are the same as we are pretty used to by now. Mostly meat--identified by name like beef, or chicken--not just "meat" or "meat by products". Whole meat, fish or poultry. and quote: "dogs have no dietary requirement for carbohydrates!" No artifical colors, flavors or added preservatives. No long list of veggies, herbs and nutraceuticals--less room for meat. If they contain gains & veggies they should be whole food not "rice bran", brewer's rice,etc."

Companys on the good list have to disclose the actual manufacturer. Some good foods don't make the list because they don't send all the info to WDJ. Every product a certain company makes is not always on the list.

Some canned examples on the list: Artemis, Canidae All Life Stages, Chicken Soup....., NB Ultra Premium, Eagle Pack Holistic, Evanger's Premium Gold, Calif. Natural, Innova, Evo, Nature's Variety Instinct, Homestyle and Prairie. Solid Gold and Wellness.

Some Dry on list: Addiction, Back to Basics Honesty, Breeder's Choice, AvoDerm and Pinnacle, Artemis Fresh Mix, By Nature, Canidae, Chicken soup, Taste of Wild, Drs. Foster & Smith, Castor & Pollux, Natural Bal., all Natura Products, Merrick, Nature's Variety, Solid Gold, Wellness, Eagle Pack.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

QUOTE (Furbaby's Mommie @ Jan 30 2009, 02:12 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=716011


> I don't have a fax, but I printed both the canned and dry articles and can answer any questions from them, like "is my food on the list". WDJ says not to reprint and distribute their materials without permission. I don't know how strict that is or what it includes for sure. I think the articles can be purchased from them if you are not a subscriber.
> 
> The basic qualifications for the list are the same as we are pretty used to by now. Mostly meat--identified by name like beef, or chicken--not just "meat" or "meat by products". Whole meat, fish or poultry. and quote: "dogs have no dietary requirement for carbohydrates!" No artifical colors, flavors or added preservatives. No long list of veggies, herbs and nutraceuticals--less room for meat. If they contain gains & veggies they should be whole food not "rice bran", brewer's rice,etc."
> 
> ...



Very good, Dee!! You Rock, and perhaps saved me from hiring an attorney. :rockon: 

That's all I need at the moment. :huh:


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

Do any of you get your Stella & Chewy's on line and if so, where? There isn't a store anywhere near me. Looks like Kingwood would be the closest. Thanks.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

I received mine yesterday and reading it over


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

Bumping this up to see where is the best place to buy the stella & chewy's on line? 
Also wondered if/why this is better than Nature's Variety or other raw or freeze-dried foods.
Wondered as well about taking him off the Natural Balance Potato & Duck since Buttons has had ear infections.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

I am on an allergy group and they tend to not like the stella food for dogs with allergies as it has too many ingredients in it so if your dog is doing well on natural balance i would stick with it as too many ear infections can lead to loss of hearing so stick with what works. 

The natures variety i fed for 4 months and my friend fed it a few months ago but she does not like the chicken as the bones were too big in it and not ground up enough for small dogs. I believe it was the chicken. I never fed the chicken as i was doing it for my dog with allergies but I do not like raw for immune suppressant dogs or dogs on those drugs as the whole dog journal did an article on that a few years ago and since their immune system is compromised home cooking is better for those dogs - hope this helps 


QUOTE (bbry @ Feb 1 2009, 07:37 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=717434


> Bumping this up to see where is the best place to buy the stella & chewy's on line?
> Also wondered if/why this is better than Nature's Variety or other raw or freeze-dried foods.
> Wondered as well about taking him off the Natural Balance Potato & Duck since Buttons has had ear infections.[/B]


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

That may be so for some allergies, but Bonnie has been eating and loving S&C for years.

bbry - have you gone to their website? Read and decide for yourself, I think it's a very high grade food, and the 'experts' at my store (who really do know more than the average sales clerk) think it's the highest quality.

http://www.stellaandchewys.com/

On their site, it answers your question about where to buy online. Good luck!


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

Thanks. I just feel kind of uncertain as to what is best. buttons is doing better on the natural balance allergy formula but wdj sounds like that might not be enough meat/protein. What to do? What to do? :mellow:


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Actually, one of the theories on allergies is that it has more to do with the lack of freshness (oxidation) of food, preservatives, and lack of rotating foods causing so many allergies and digestive trouble. There is just a huge number of humans with wheat allergies now that may be due to the fact that we eat so much white proccessed flour products. So the same theory may be true with our fluffs. Mine can't do the raw, so we do Dr. Harvey's and I cook the meat. But I switch the type of meat on a weekly basis. I think with whatever food you choose, if it's fresh, has no preservatives, and you alternate the type (chicken one week, beef another, etc) would be very helpful. Also, detoxing is often beneficial to a dog with allergy problems, candida, after vaccines, etc...

If you want to go raw, you really can't go wrong with Stella & Chewey's or the Honest Kitchen or Dr. Harvey's.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

Ear infections are tied more to yeast issues and allergies are only 10% of all food allergies and there is a difference between food intolerance and food allergy. Food intolerance comes in the form of diarhea so that would be more of a switching of proteins than food allergy. 

If the food works stick with it - if it ain't broke don't fix it or you could encounter more issues and frustration especially if you have a dog that is under control. It even states that in the whole dog journal article. Allergies are very complicated and getting to the bottom of it is very frustrating so if you figured it out then go with it. Dogs are allergic usually to proteins as flea saliva is a protein, pollen is a protein and meats are proteins. But doing a more limited diet with allergies helps not to over tax the system with a lot of thing it needs to process and why most dogs with allergies should have a minimal ingredient diet.


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

if it is working do not mess with it or you could borrow more trouble. The dog food is balanced - duck and potato is enough protein and limited protein is not a horrible thing for small dogs. The yorkie breed and maltese breed tend to have mvd and liver issues so limited protein is a good thing but duck has more protein than fish as fish is more easily digested than duck and why dogs with liver issues should eat fish based diets rather than duck so i think you are fine if it is working. Natural balance was on the list of approved foods and it is a good company with only one food recal for venison and rice and they stopped that diet after the recall and it is now venison and sweet potato 


QUOTE (bbry @ Feb 1 2009, 08:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=717444


> Thanks. I just feel kind of uncertain as to what is best. buttons is doing better on the natural balance allergy formula but wdj sounds like that might not be enough meat/protein. What to do? What to do? :mellow:[/B]


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

I agree it is a very high quality food but dogs with ear infections, allergies etc should be on limited ingredient diets to eliminate potential issues. If the dog has no allergy issues then I would recommend it definitely as we had a great discussion on this food on our allergy dog group and how i am familiar with it and it is sold at my friends pet store and we discussed it as well and she does not recommend it to people whose dogs have allergies. 


QUOTE (Bonnie's Mommie @ Feb 1 2009, 07:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=717442


> That may be so for some allergies, but Bonnie has been eating and loving S&C for years.
> 
> bbry - have you gone to their website? Read and decide for yourself, I think it's a very high grade food, and the 'experts' at my store (who really do know more than the average sales clerk) think it's the highest quality.
> 
> ...


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

Thank you for your responses. 

The ear issues are bacterial infections. They did a culture and the results showed bad bacteria living in there. He said he didn't find any signs of yeast. If he still has issues in 10 days, he will switch the antibiotics.

I will probably start off with trying just a tiny bit of the freeze dried Stella & Chewy's just not sure where I will get it yet. I don't want to order very much and hate to pay the shipping on just a little package. 

Bonnie's Mommie, did Bonnie have allergies before you started the Stella & Chewy's?


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

if bacteria then i would do probiotics 2 hrs after antibiotic and continue to use so then not food related if bacteria most likely as yeast tends to be more food related


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

QUOTE (bbry @ Feb 1 2009, 09:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=717494


> Thank you for your responses.
> 
> The ear issues are bacterial infections. They did a culture and the results showed bad bacteria living in there. He said he didn't find any signs of yeast. If he still has issues in 10 days, he will switch the antibiotics.
> 
> ...



Bonnie has very mild allergies, just seasonal. In fact, she may have outgrown them because for the past year or so I haven't had to treat them.

Why not try emailing S&C, and tell them about the issues you're concerned with? And, also ask if they would give you a sample. Never hurts to ask!


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## bbry (Feb 17, 2007)

I do also give him yogurt each day.

Bonnie's Mommie, That sounds like a good idea. Thanks


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## bell (Jun 4, 2008)

So was merrick dry food on the ok list? That is one of the only high quality foods that agree with both malts .


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## beckinwolf (Sep 2, 2008)

QUOTE (bell @ Feb 2 2009, 11:57 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=717907


> So was merrick dry food on the ok list? That is one of the only high quality foods that agree with both malts .[/B]



Both the canned and dry Merrick's is on the good list! :thmbup:


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## lovesophie (Jan 28, 2008)

Does anyone know anything about Primal prepackaged raw, specifically the lamb? That's what I feed my kids for breakfast and dinner. For lunch, they get Stella & Chewy's freeze dried, also in lamb. I'm wondering, though, if I should switch the Primal for Stella & Chewy's frozen raw in lamb. Is Primal of lesser quality than S&C? If so, I would definitely make the switch. Does anyone know?


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

I do not care for merrick  as he has a rendering plant on the same property he has a pet food manufacturing company on and he is always lobbying for rendering parts to put in dog food therefore i think he is already doing it and easy access - also a yorkie on my yahoo group died this year from stomach cancer and all he ate was merrick. They removed a softball size tumor from his stomach that was cancer. Also, a maltese owner on my yahoo group fed merrick to her maltese and did not know what a rendering plant was when i sent the dirty job show times for what rendering plants so she emailed me privately and come to find out her dog who has only eaten merrick had stomach tumors removed -- Rendering parts can have diseased parts not used for human consumption and they can be put in dog food. Check into it further as I do not trust that food even though WDJ recommends it I still would not trust that company - call them and ask them if they have a rendering plant near by and see what they say as others have and they hem and haw about it 




QUOTE (beckinwolf @ Feb 2 2009, 03:50 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=717930


> QUOTE (bell @ Feb 2 2009, 11:57 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=717907





> So was merrick dry food on the ok list? That is one of the only high quality foods that agree with both malts .[/B]



Both the canned and dry Merrick's is on the good list! :thmbup:
[/B][/QUOTE]


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

I just say be careful with raw as my friend fed raw for years to her Cocker Spaniels all 4 of them and one time only she got a bad batch by Stevies which was suppose to be a good company and all 4 of her dogs were extremely sick and she almost lost the oldest one to this - so make sure you get it from a good source as if their refridgerator is off temp or it gets defrosted in transit etc you could be opening yourself up - she now homecooks for them 

I have heard good and bad about raw so I would do the home cooking for them and why i read up on it as I want to make sure when i do it - it will be completely balanced as that is very important or you could have other problems like dental due to low calcium content, etc - It is tough as what food do you trust anymore after all this recall stuff so that is why i want to home cook eventually 

I would never feed raw to an immune compromised dog or a dog on immune suppressant drugs and only a healthy dog


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

QUOTE (dwerten @ Feb 2 2009, 09:54 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=718193


> I just say be careful with raw as my friend fed raw for years to her Cocker Spaniels all 4 of them and one time only she got a bad batch by Stevies which was suppose to be a good company and all 4 of her dogs were extremely sick and she almost lost the oldest one to this - so make sure you get it from a good source as if their refridgerator is off temp or it gets defrosted in transit etc you could be opening yourself up - she now homecooks for them
> 
> I have heard good and bad about raw so I would do the home cooking for them and why i read up on it as I want to make sure when i do it - it will be completely balanced as that is very important or you could have other problems like dental due to low calcium content, etc - It is tough as what food do you trust anymore after all this recall stuff so that is why i want to home cook eventually
> 
> I would never feed raw to an immune compromised dog or a dog on immune suppressant drugs and only a healthy dog[/B]



Make sure to specify that there is a difference between raw and freeze dried raw.


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

Now I am curious....What is the difference between freeze-dried raw and frozen raw? Does the freeze-drying process kill bacteria? That is my biggest concern.....Plus now I am trying to find another novel protein for my dogs that isn't red meat or poultry. I might just have to break down and do venison or lamb......

I still think S&C has the highest quality standards and best manufacturing process of the raw foods. When I ordered mine online I got it from The Loyal Dog - they had the cheapest prices and flat rate shipping at the time.

Oh, and the reason _white_ fish diets are good for dogs with liver issues, according to Dr. Dodds, is because it contains an amino acid or enzyme that helps to heal the liver.  Fish and poultry have more bioavailability than red meat and give off less ammonia; egg whites have a very high bioavailability.


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## sophie (Jul 9, 2006)

I got mine in the mail today. In reference to their advice to switch up foods regularly how often should a switch be made (I may have missed it in the article)? 

The girls have been on NB Vension & Sweet Potato for a while now and I'm wondering if I should make a switch for a while to something else. Neither have ever been diagnosed with allergies, but they do scratch more when eating poultry so I stay away from that.

I used to have them on Wellness Venison and Sweet Potato canned and they loved it. I switched them back to NB because it was easier to get at Petco than driving all the way to the feed store, but since Petco can't seem to get the small bags of venison formula in anymore I'm back to driving to the feed store which has every food imaginable.

I've tried different fish formulas but neither want anything to do with any fish forumla whether food or treats except for the itty bitty Zukes Salmon treats.

After their new bag is almost finished I'm thinking of doing a switch and seeing how they like it.

Linda


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

QUOTE (tamizami @ Feb 3 2009, 12:10 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=718291


> Now I am curious....What is the difference between freeze-dried raw and frozen raw? Does the freeze-drying process kill bacteria? That is my biggest concern.....Plus now I am trying to find another novel protein for my dogs that isn't red meat or poultry. I might just have to break down and do venison or lamb......
> 
> I still think S&C has the highest quality standards and best manufacturing process of the raw foods. When I ordered mine online I got it from The Loyal Dog - they had the cheapest prices and flat rate shipping at the time.
> 
> Oh, and the reason _white_ fish diets are good for dogs with liver issues, according to Dr. Dodds, is because it contains an amino acid or enzyme that helps to heal the liver.  Fish and poultry have more bioavailability than red meat and give off less ammonia; egg whites have a very high bioavailability.[/B]


I think the biggest difference is that one goes in the freezer and one doesn't. :biggrin: I think (again, think) that the quality and ingredients are the same. I agree about S&C being the highest quality. You could always email them and ask what the differences are, if it doesn't state it on their website.

Linda - I personally disagree about changing foods regularly. If you want to try a new food to upgrade, that's one thing. But I wouldn't change foods if they're thriving on the current stuff.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Best way to get everything they need is to have a variety of foods you know they will eat on hand and vary them on even a daily basis if you want. Rotating weekly would work, or even mix several kinds of dry at once. Adding whole fresh foods to their regular meal is also good to add variety. I think it was mentioned in one of the WDJ articles on canned to try one that makes several flavors of canned and rotate them.

Using a whole bag of dry and then changing wouldn't be exactly like feeding a variety of foods.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

QUOTE (tamizami @ Feb 3 2009, 12:10 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=718291


> Now I am curious....What is the difference between freeze-dried raw and frozen raw? Does the freeze-drying process kill bacteria? That is my biggest concern.....Plus now I am trying to find another novel protein for my dogs that isn't red meat or poultry. I might just have to break down and do venison or lamb......
> 
> I still think S&C has the highest quality standards and best manufacturing process of the raw foods. When I ordered mine online I got it from The Loyal Dog - they had the cheapest prices and flat rate shipping at the time.
> 
> Oh, and the reason _white_ fish diets are good for dogs with liver issues, according to Dr. Dodds, is because it contains an amino acid or enzyme that helps to heal the liver.  Fish and poultry have more bioavailability than red meat and give off less ammonia; egg whites have a very high bioavailability.[/B]


Here is a copy of what's on their website.

Food Safety at Stella & Chewy’s :: An Overview
The safety of our products has always been and continues to be of paramount importance to us. In light of recent scares in the petfood world, we want our customers to know what we are doing at Stella & Chewy’s to ensure that they are getting exactly what we promise: the highest-quality and safest products available. We are leading the industry in food safety controls: not only do we have state-of-the-art food safety systems in place, but we also test every batch prior to shipping, for salmonella and E. coli 0157:H7.

The following outlines the steps we are taking to provide products free from harmful bacteria: 

Dedicated Manufacturing Plant: We produce ALL Stella & Chewy’s products and ONLY Stella & Chewy’s products at our own federally-inspected plant in Muskego, WI. All of our equipment is dedicated to Stella & Chewy’s, including our freeze-dryers, so that we maintain the utmost control over the safety of our products from beginning to end. 

High Quality Ingredients: All of our farmers and suppliers provide “Letters of Guarantee” stating that their meats and produce are fresh, clean, and test negative for pathogens. 

Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point Guidelines (HACCP): We follow the HACCP guidelines, a prevention-based food safety system created by the FDA and the USDA. The purpose of HACCP is to identify and monitor specific food-borne hazards – biological, chemical, or physical properties – that can adversely affect the safety of the food product. 

Hydrostatic High Pressure (HHP): HHP is a technology that is used to reduce vegetative bacteria in foods without the changes that are associated with cooking. The process has little effect on flavor compounds, vitamins and pigments. This method is based on the concept that at deep sea levels bacteria cannot survive where other organisms do. This naturally-occurring environment is recreated in the HHP process, allowing nutritional enzymes and amino acids to remain intact. We use HHP on all of our raw products. To date, this is the only recognized kill-step that does not use heat or irradiation; therefore, it is considered a more natural process. The result is a finished product that is safe and wholesome and still has the natural microflora and nutritional properties as unpasteurized products.

Watch this video to learn more about High Pressure Processing

Advanced Oxidation Cells: These cells emit low levels of oxidative gases, including vapor Hydrogen Peroxide, that inactivate pathogens such as Salmonella, E. coli 0157:H7 and Listeria monocytogenes. Advanced oxidation cells are used to prevent contamination of surface and air-borne bacteria in the production area. Additionally, the same technology is used in the freeze-dryers and on all conveyors. 

Consistent Independent Laboratory Testing: We produce everything in small batches. Samples are pulled from the finished product of each batch and taken to an independent laboratory to be tested for for Salmonella and E. coli O157:H7 prior to shipping. Our testing record is impeccable, and we have each batch test results cataloged and avaiable for customers to view online. 

Here's the link: Stella & Chewys Safety Overview

I'm really impressed that you can check each batch out on their website for test results.

As for rotating their food, I've heard from several other sources that is a good thing to do. But I think the WDJ meant within a certain brand. For example, if you're feeding S & C's, feed a bag of duck, then the next bag should be lamb, and the next one something different. I feed mine Dr. Harvey's so each week I change the protein. If you feed canned, when one can's done, switch to a different flavor in the same line.

Think of it this way. If we humans only ate chicken, 3 times a day, 7 days a week, year after year, we would not be very healthy and most likely develop some health issues. Our bodies pull different nutrients from beef and different nutrients from chicken and lamb etc...


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Great information, Crystal!!! Thanks :thumbsup:


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## dwerten (Oct 6, 2007)

Fish is an easier protein to digest so the liver does not have to work as hard like some other proteins



QUOTE (tamizami @ Feb 3 2009, 12:10 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=718291


> Now I am curious....What is the difference between freeze-dried raw and frozen raw? Does the freeze-drying process kill bacteria? That is my biggest concern.....Plus now I am trying to find another novel protein for my dogs that isn't red meat or poultry. I might just have to break down and do venison or lamb......
> 
> I still think S&C has the highest quality standards and best manufacturing process of the raw foods. When I ordered mine online I got it from The Loyal Dog - they had the cheapest prices and flat rate shipping at the time.
> 
> Oh, and the reason _white_ fish diets are good for dogs with liver issues, according to Dr. Dodds, is because it contains an amino acid or enzyme that helps to heal the liver.  Fish and poultry have more bioavailability than red meat and give off less ammonia; egg whites have a very high bioavailability.[/B]


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