# Trip to town



## Harleysmom (Jan 26, 2005)

Just got back from taking Harley on a trip to Petsmart. He shook all the way there and back! He does this everytime we take him away from home.Does that mean we should socialize him more or what? He klung to my neck and dug his nails in my skin....ouch.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

Awww....







Brinkley loves to "go!"...so I don't know what to tell ya!








Maybe some shorter trips more often to get him more used to it. 
I know that some dogs never like car rides, so hopefully you can get him over it.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I don't remember where you got Harley from or how old he is, but yes, it does sound like he needs to be socialized more. He's old enough to have had all his shots, hasn't he?

A friend of mine had Maltese for 25 years and decided to make her last 2 indoor only. They ended up being like agorophobic humans - terrified to leave their home. It took both her and her husband to handle a vet visit, one got terribly car sick, and obviously she second-guessed her decision years later.

Puppies that spent those very important first weeks in a puppy mill with little human contact are notoriously difficult to socialize so you may have to work extra hard with Harley if he is a pet shop puppy. You may also have to accept that he may never be as social as a dog "lovingly raised underfoot" as reputable breeders like to say.

Have you tried taking him out in a carrier? He may feel safer in one, likehe's crated. I'd also avoid busy noisy places like Petsmart for his first outings if he's afraid. Dogs have much stronger senses of smells than we do and more sensitive hearing. Can you imagine how much more intense the smell of all the strange dogs, noises, etc. must be to him?

Poor baby.


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

Does he go on rides alot? If not he was prob. just very scared.As Traci said to get him used to rides,start small going only short distances.give him treats in the car so he will learn its not a bad place to be. Only take him to places that there are not alot of ppl. or dogs until he is used to being around them.If you havent taken him out much this is prob. why he was afraid and not due to the fact he came from a pet store or byb. Short trips and letting him get used to ppl. and other dogs slowly will help to ease his fear.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Actually, where a puppy came from and how much human contact and handling he had in those first few weeks is very important to later socialization and training. 

You might be interested in this article:

http://www.tanagersongfarm.com/irish_terri...uppysocial.html


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

I never said it wasent important. What I said was,IF he wasent used to going in the car or being around other ppl. or dogs he might be afraid because of THAT.
It makes me angry that every time someone ask a question or makes a comment "some" ppl. right away have to make comments that its due to comeing from a petstore,byb etc. Cant we just give them an answer without implying thier problem is prob. due to the fact they got their dog from one of those. There can be many prob. that do not led back to those places. If I posted a question for help and someone without knowing the fact of where my dog came from answered back that the problem was due to getiing my dog from one of those,I would be VERY insulted.And not likely to post again


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## CandicePK (Nov 11, 2004)

How old is Harley? I knew before I got Chloe that she needed to be okay in the car. The day we got her we had a 3 hour drive home, and I just let her hang out in my arms since my husband was driving. She slept the whole way. Then we just started taking her everywhere we went. I would stay with her in the car since she hadn't had all her shots yet. Little by little we went to using her Pet-Taxi when she was in the car, at first I would use it when I was alone with her and would keep her in the front seat so she could see me. Then from there we moved her to the back seat. She never had a problem.

Now out in public is another story - she feels she must guard mommy from all things evil in the world. Um let's see - might be someone's baseball cap or anothers large purse. Ya never know when one of these things might lash out and hurt mom - afterall.


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by sheila2182_@May 13 2005, 11:45 AM
> *I never said it wasent important. What I said was,IF he wasent used to going in the car or being around other ppl. or dogs he might be afraid because of THAT.
> It makes me angry that every time someone ask a question or makes a comment "some" ppl. right away have to make comments that its due to comeing from a petstore,byb etc. Cant we just give them an answer without implying thier problem is prob. due to the fact they got their dog from one of those. There can be many prob. that do not led back to those places. If I posted a question for help and someone without knowing the fact of where my dog came from answered back that the problem was due to getiing my  dog from one of those,I would be VERY insulted.And not likely to post again
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=62109*


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Sheila, my comment about Harley's background was not meant to insult you or Harley's mom. I know you get very defensive when this subject comes up, but I wish you wouldn't in this case.

I have owned and trained many dogs and think the key to success is understanding what is going through their minds. Puppy mill dogs are "special needs" dogs _in my opinion_ (please notice emphasis). Their limited human contact and handling in those early weeks can make them more difficult to socialize. As I said in my other post, it just means you have to work a little harder sometimes and be a bit more pateint and understanding because new situations are much more stressful to them.

I also consider rescue to be "special needs", too. This is not a derrogatory comment and all my pets are (and have been for 25 years) rescues. They, like puppy mill puppies, need extra understanding and patience, too. That doesn't make them inferior. In fact, I think my Lady is more special because she is a rescue!


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

My point was missed once again.I do not disagree with what you have said at all.I totally agree.My comment was about it seems like every time someone ask a question you automatically "assume" the problems arise from the pet coming from a puppy mill,byb,pet store.Even in times where you dont know for a fact that that is true.We all feel the same way about these places,but cant we just answer the questions and leave out the rest? We have many threads about it to help inform ppl. about these places,why does it have to come up in a simple question. unless someone says ...my pet is from a petstore,byb,puppy mill can anyone help with my question etc.Do you see what Im saying now? You help with so much with great information Marge,and I feel you are a great asset to this site.But frankly sometimes I stop reading your posts because you tend (IMO )to vear off the topic.I know its because you are so passonate about the subject of the issue,(as we all really are) Sometimes a question can just be answered without all the rest and assumtions. And please do not take this as a personal attack,because thats not whats intended.







Sometimes I have a hard time trying to get my point across,Im not gifted as some are in that area!


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

I don't see what's wrong with bringing up ALL opinions on what could be wrong. This could be an underlying reason why Harley is acting this way, and bringing it up could help fix the problem. Harley's owner might not have thought that it was an underlying problem so didn't think to bring up his background. How are we to learn anything if we tip toe around everything? If it is the problem then it's a valid post and not off topic. It's important to look at all angles in order to figure out the problem. Our babies can't tell us what's wrong so it's our job as owners to go over all the options and figure out what works best. Why deny this dog a chance of fixing the problem because someone is afraid to bring up the topic of puppy mills once again. Just because there are a few topics on the horrors of puppy mills doesn't meant that everyone is going to read them so whenever it comes up is good and it shouldn't be silenced because it offends some. 
If Harley isn't a puppy mill or BYB dog then his owner doesn't have to take the advice given in the post about it. They can move on to the next option and try everything till it works. And others might have the same problem with their dog and read this thread and _their_ dog might be a puppy mill or BYB dog and that could be _their_ problem. There now someone learned something and used it to help their dog, what's wrong with that?


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## 020202 (Jan 26, 2005)

Thankfully our maltese Izzy loves to travel in the car but that wasn't always the case with our rottweiler shepherd mix. Maggie hated the car, was terrified of it. The kids started out by opening both back doors and luring Maggie in one door with a treat and right out the other door. They'd laugh and she'd chase them around the back of the car and do it again. After days of this, they started shutting one back door while luring her in, then luring her in and shutting the door without driving anywhere. After Maggie got used to the car, we'd take her for short drives, return home and treat her. Once again, those treats seem to be a great motivator for just about anything.

Good luck with Harley, I hope someone's idea will be beneficial to you guys.


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

> _Originally posted by FannyMay_@May 17 2005, 03:35 PM
> *I don't see what's wrong with bringing up ALL opinions on what could be wrong.  This could be an underlying reason why Harley is acting this way, and bringing it up could help fix the problem.  Harley's owner might not have thought that it was an underlying problem so didn't think to bring up his background.  How are we to learn anything if we tip toe around everything?  If it is the problem then it's a valid post and not off topic.  It's important to look at all angles in order to figure out the problem.  Our babies can't tell us what's wrong so it's our job as owners to go over all the options and figure out what works best.  Why deny this dog a chance of fixing the problem because someone is afraid to bring up the topic of puppy mills once again.  Just because there are a few topics on the horrors of puppy mills doesn't meant that everyone is going to read them so whenever it comes up is good and it shouldn't be silenced because it offends some.
> If Harley isn't a puppy mill or BYB dog then his owner doesn't have to take the advice given in the post about it.  They can move on to the next option and try everything till it works.  And others might have the same problem with their dog and read this thread and their dog might be a puppy mill or BYB dog and that could be their problem.  There now someone learned something and used it to help their dog, what's wrong with that?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=62946*


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Ya know Im really so tired and discourgedf trying to make eveyone understand the point ( and alot 0f other ppl's) I was trying to make. So Im giving up,I will no longer post on the point I was trying to make.Either you get it...or you dont.Sadly...


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## puppylucy (Jan 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by sheila2182_@May 13 2005, 11:45 AM
> *I never said it wasent important. What I said was,IF he wasent used to going in the car or being around other ppl. or dogs he might be afraid because of THAT.
> It makes me angry that every time someone ask a question or makes a comment "some" ppl. right away have to make comments that its due to comeing from a petstore,byb etc. Cant we just give them an answer without implying thier problem is prob. due to the fact they got their dog from one of those. There can be many prob. that do not led back to those places. If I posted a question for help and someone without knowing the fact of where my dog came from answered back that the problem was due to getiing my  dog from one of those,I would be VERY insulted.And not likely to post again
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=62109*


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i can understand the being insulted, however...

i don't think she was wrong in posting that. it's important to 'cover all bases', correct? it very well COULD be the problem.

lady's mom (i assume that is who you're talking about..) is a huge source of information and i know she is only intending to help, not hurt. she never implies that the fact that they're puppymill dogs is a BAD thing. she just tries to share information, which is what this forum is all about.


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## Harleysmom (Jan 26, 2005)

Thanks for all the info-I didn't realize it was going to cause such turmoil







I will try to take him out more.


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## Quincymom (Oct 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Harleysmom_@May 17 2005, 05:48 PM
> *Thanks for all the info-I didn't realize it was going to cause such turmoil
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I had the same problem with Jonas when I took him out, he would shake and be very scared, and eventually started throwing up when he got in the car. (He hadn't been carsick when I first got him). I know it is because Quincy gets horribly carsick and I have to medicate him before taking him anywhere, so he doesn't get out much, and that meant Jonas didn't either. I now have Jonas loving car rides and going out, and no throwup--I started taking him out daily for short 5-10 minute rides, taking him to Wendy's for a few licks of a Frosty, or McDonalds for a chicken nugget. Worked great, especially cause these things are not part of his regular diet. Wish I could fix Quincy's carsickness so easily. He still has to be heavily medicated or urps everywhere, even though he loves to go.
Quincymom


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Just my two cents .... if I had gotten K or C from a pet store and had a problem such as the one Harley's mom mentioned... I would really want to know and understand that coming from a pet store could have caused the problem, so that I could be more diligent in their socialization, etc. Until this forum, I did not fully realize the importance of those early days and weeks in the lives our little ones..... For me, "knowledge is power". As the old saying goes..."you can't please all the people all the time."


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

Here goes my 2cents worth.....


I happen to agree with Sheila whole heartedly. She is not saying that where the puppy came from does not cause issues. But what she is saying is that it is not always the first and only reason for issues. At times it seems people do not listen to the whole story or look for any other factors outside the origin of the puppy. It is often discouraging to see question after question answered the same. I am sorry to say that wether it is intentional or not a holier than thou attitude comes across to me quite often on here. The purpose of the board to me is to get a mulitude of answers to my questions, not to have one person answer and the following agree. At times I can see how you could feel intimidated to disagree with the general thought.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dhodina_@May 17 2005, 08:58 PM
> *Here goes my 2cents worth.....
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Hmmmm- I have said that SAME thing!!!





























Intentional or not, it _does_ come across that way.








Just my 1 cent...I am done...


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

I think those of you that think some of us have a holier than thou attitude, have a complex. I personally just like to educate and don't mean to sound condescending. If I do sound that way it's not intentional, I just want to help the animals because they can't help themselves.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tlunn+May 17 2005, 09:04 PM-->
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Hmmmm- I have said that SAME thing!!!





























Intentional or not, it _does_ come across that way.








Just my 1 cent...I am done...








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I agree!


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by FannyMay_@May 18 2005, 09:14 AM
> *I think those of you that think some of us have a holier than thou attitude, have a complex.  I personally just like to educate and don't mean to sound condescending.  If I do sound that way it's not intentional, I just want to help the animals because they can't help themselves.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=63160*


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That was not very kind.







The rest of your post would have been fine without it.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

Let's back up here and look at this situation again. There are good points on both sides. What I have a problem with is that information is given without knowing all the facts.
Perhaps it would work a lot better, if, before assuming and replying one asks for more information.
In the case of Harley, it would have been so easy to respond with a post such as:
tell us a little more about Harley. How old was he when he came to live with you? How is his personality otherwise? Tell us about his breeder and the care he received there. 
I live alone. I have actually had a fantastic dog I wanted to show who was not suited to this because she had never been out of my house until she went to the handler. I give my dogs a lot of attention and care, and she is a loving pet with me. I dare say China was uncomfortable on her first car ride, yet she is anything but a dog from a puppymill, pet store, or back yard breeder. I would hate for her to be labeled as this and get some type lecture I didn't deserve just because I said she didn't feel comfortable showing or riding in my car the first time.
I'm in the business of working with people and their emotions. I cannot effectively help people in my practice of psychology without knowing all the facts (or as many as I can gather), and I'm engaging in malpractice if I start spouting off without arming myself with all the information. 
I believe there would be a lot less problem here if everyone practiced getting all the facts before giving opinions or information. And, for those asking for help, give all the information you can before asking for the help.
Faye


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LucyLou_@May 18 2005, 11:57 AM
> *Let's back up here and look at this situation again.  There are good points on both sides.  What I have a problem with is that information is given without knowing all the facts.
> Perhaps it would work a lot better, if, before assuming and replying one asks for more information.
> In the case of Harley, it would have been so easy to respond with a post such as:
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Carrie+May 18 2005, 11:02 AM-->
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Very well said!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Excellently said, Lucy Lou. That's why I was so careful to preface my response with "I don't know where you got Harley from" and kept my comments general about puppy mill pups. I also said "Puppies that spent those very important first weeks in a puppy mill with little human contact are notoriously difficult to socialize so you may have to work extra hard with Harley if he is a pet shop puppy. "

If anyone read the article I posted about the importance of human contact an handling in the first 8 weeks, it was not specifically directed at puppy mill puppies. In fact, it defends puppy mills in the first paragraph as most being clean and regularly inspected operations! 

I'm sorry that my post caused such a turmoil. I was only trying to be helpful. I worked with socializing fox hound puppies for many years for the Millbrook hunt up in NY when my daughter was in Pony Club. I have seen firsthand how timid and fearful a puppy raised solely with its pack in a kennel is. Most of the hounds had to be carried out of the kennel and would just cower on the road or ground at first. It was amazing the progress they made with regular exposure to sights and sounds and how they dragged those kids that once had to carry them! 

I know that this is a hot button issue for some here on SM. I only ask that you carefully read each post before overreacting and getting defensive. And please remember that no way could I have a "holier than thou attitude" when my own beloved Lady is a pet shop/puppy mill dog!


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom+May 18 2005, 11:12 AM-->
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Very well said!






















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Exactly what I was trying to say


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@May 18 2005, 11:21 AM
> *Excellently said, Lucy Lou. That's why I was so careful to preface my response with "I don't know where you got Harley from" and kept my comments general about puppy mill pups. I also said "Puppies that spent those very important first weeks in a puppy mill with little human contact are notoriously difficult to socialize so you may have to work extra hard with Harley if he is a pet shop puppy. "
> 
> If anyone read the article I posted about the importance of human contact an handling in the first 8 weeks, it was not specifically directed at puppy mill puppies. In fact, it defends puppy mills in the first paragraph as most being clean and regularly inspected operations!
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

I think my reply (below) got mixed in with the last post I was trying to respond to.


I think you are missing the point.  It's not necessary to get up on the soap box every time.  Emotions are high, and this can be misinterpreted by people who see a lecture only.  It is easy to assume that you are implying the dog came from a puppymill, etc.  I've noticed this in this type response several times.  From one standing back with no personal emotion involved, I can see how people get upset with this type response.
I read every post carefully before I respond, and I thought long and hard before I jumped in on this topic.

Faye


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Again, I am sorry if my postings triggered a defensive reaction in some people. It was never my intent to upset people, rather just offer a perspective based on experience and what I have read on the subject. I was as careful as possible to post disclaimers about not knowing Harley's background and share general information that might apply and be helpful. 

Since Maltese are currently ranked #9 on the list of breeds sold in pet shops according to nopuppymills.com, I think any forum seriously dedicated to the discussion of Maltese cannot tip toe around the issue of puppy mills. 

Might I suggest that those here who find my posts offensive simply use the "ignore user" function Joe has available here?


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LucyLou_@May 18 2005, 12:33 PM
> *I think my reply (below) got mixed in with the last post I was trying to respond to.
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RIght on the money and extemely well said. I have been trying to think of way to say just that.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@May 18 2005, 12:43 PM
> *Again, I am sorry if my postings triggered a defensive reaction in some people. It was never my intent to upset people, rather just offer a perspective based on experience and what I have read on the subject. I was as careful as possible to post disclaimers about not knowing Harley's background and share general information that might apply and be helpful.
> 
> Since Maltese are currently ranked #9 on the list of breeds sold in pet shops according to nopuppymills.com, I think any forum seriously dedicated to the discussion of Maltese cannot tip toe around the issue of puppy mills.
> ...


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There is nothing offensive about your posts, and they are very helpful. The point several of us have been trying to get across







is that there are people out there who may not need a lecture each time there is a reply. And, because emotions are high, it is easy to see this type response as critical because it's just a lecture. Again, I suggest that we get all the facts before going to this length. 
If I were to go in to my patients and give them a lecture every time they came to me with something negative, I dare say they would quit listening to what I have to say. The same goes here for those who may need something more than a lecture when a question or statement is made.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LucyLou+May 18 2005, 01:52 PM-->
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There is nothing offensive about your posts, and they are very helpful. The point several of us have been trying to get across







is that there are people out there who may not need a lecture each time there is a reply. And, because emotions are high, it is easy to see this type response as critical because it's just a lecture. Again, I suggest that we get all the facts before going to this length. 
If I were to go in to my patients and give them a lecture every time they came to me with something negative, I dare say they would quit listening to what I have to say. The same goes here for those who may need something more than a lecture when a question or statement is made.
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I may be wrong but it seems like some of you are trying to tell others what to say and how to say it. True, some people may not need nor want a "lecture" but I think it is Lady's Mom's prerogative to politely say what is on her mind. Personally, I like Lady's Mom's posting style.

And regarding getting all the information first... this is not a counseling session nor even a discussion with loved ones. It's an open forum where all polite opinions, biases, thoughts, etc. should be welcomed. Most of us are very busy and have just enough time to jump on SM quickly and give our two cents on an issue or provide useful information. Sometimes, it is just quicker and easier to give an answer with assumptions being made. Lady's Mom was very general in her answer. It may not have even applied to Harley's situation, which she acknowledged, but perhaps an SM Guest may have been looking for information on that topic and found it useful to her.

It concerns me greatly when a poster's style and intent are called in to question, especially when it is a poster who has contributed so much to this forum.

IMHO the answer is not to try to silence or censor someone, but rather to just set them up as an "ignored user" and don't read their posts, as Lady's Mom suggested.


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LucyLou_@May 18 2005, 01:52 PM
> *There is nothing offensive about your posts, and they are very helpful.  The point several of us have been trying to get across
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Who's lecturing? Marj didn't lecture, she was asking for information and instead of waiting for a reply that could take a long time she decided to give a solution if that question was answered in one particular way. 
When you first see your patients you take a history of them right? Well Marj didn't know the history of Harley and was trying to find a solution to the problem without knowing the history. Now if your patients get offended because you are asking the questions to get their history, you wouldn't know anything about your patients and you wouldn't be able to help them. 
IF Harley is a puppy mill dog or even if he's not and he left his family too soon then that could be the problem. Once again, what's wrong with giving all solutions before knowing anything about the dog? Even if it didn't help Harley's mom (if Harley was from a reputable breeder and came one at 12 weeks) it could help other posters, members and lurkers.


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## MaltTease (Mar 8, 2005)

The Drama Queens are at it again!!!

Lady's Mom, bravo to you for just trying to help, and bravo again for suggesting that the easiest way to get over being offended is to "ignore user."







I wonder if the Drama Queens are ignoring this post right now!!


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

I am going to put this out there and for those that do not agree... oh well. There seems to be two different viewpoints on everything that is being said, with that being said I think we can all agree no one is trying to personally attack anyone or dispute any one poster's contribution to the list, nor tell them how to post. Instead of allowing people to begin name calling and pointing fingures or asigning complex's lets agree to disagree and leave it at that. I hate to see people try to stir up things and make them personal when they never were intended that way. Its not always what you say but how you say that leaves an impression.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dhodina_@May 18 2005, 05:23 PM
> *I am going to put this out there and for those that do not agree... oh well.  There seems to be two different viewpoints on everything that is being said, with that being said I think we can all agree no one is trying to personally attack anyone or dispute any one poster's contribution to the list, nor tell them how to post.  Instead of allowing people to begin name calling and pointing fingures or asigning complex's lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.  I hate to see people try to stir up things and make them personal when they never were intended that way.  Its not always what you say but how you say that leaves an impression.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=63305*


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I don't want to perpetuate a negative thread but I find myself compelled to answer your post. I am a bit confused about the statement in your post above, "I hate to see people stir up things". Lady's Mom posted a sincere and polite answer to a question and from that point on there have been several posts telling her to change her style, content, etc. It sure seems personal to me. 

Sorry, but I do not agree with, "I think we can all agree no one is trying to personally attack anyone or dispute any one poster's contribution to the list, nor tell them how to post." In actuality, "telling them how to post" has been the subject matter of most of the posts to this thread.

The ability to freely (and politely) express opinions on boards such as this is important to me. I have heard this phrase many, many times on this board, "Its not always what you say but how you say that leaves an impression." The "how you say it" part is very difficult to control when we are communicating via the written word and do not have the benefit of speaking to each other. Further, it is impossible to know "how to say it" to be 100% acceptable to everyone. The members on this forum represent a diverse group of people and the responsibilty of trying to analyze every word we write, so as not to offend anyone's sensibilities is a task that has little chance of success.


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## puppylucy (Jan 8, 2005)

> I don't want to perpetuate a negative thread but I find myself compelled to answer your post. I am a bit confused about the statement in your post above, "I hate to see people stir up things". Lady's Mom posted a sincere and polite answer to a question and from that point on there have been several posts telling her to change her style, content, etc. It sure seems personal to me.
> 
> Sorry, but I do not agree with, "I think we can all agree no one is trying to personally attack anyone or dispute any one poster's contribution to the list, nor tell them how to post." In actuality, "telling them how to post" has been the subject matter of most of the posts to this thread.
> 
> The ability to freely (and politely) express opinions on boards such as this is important to me. I have heard this phrase many, many times on this board, "Its not always what you say but how you say that leaves an impression." The "how you say it" part is very difficult to control when we are communicating via the written word and do not have the benefit of speaking to each other. Further, it is impossible to know "how to say it" to be 100% acceptable to everyone. The members on this forum represent a diverse group of people and the responsibilty of trying to analyze every word we write, so as not to offend anyone's sensibilities is a task that has little chance of success.[/B]


very well said. i agree. thanks for putting it that way


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+May 18 2005, 07:42 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't want to perpetuate a negative thread but I find myself compelled to answer your post. I am a bit confused about the statement in your post above, "I hate to see people stir up things". Lady's Mom posted a sincere and polite answer to a question and from that point on there have been several posts telling her to change her style, content, etc. It sure seems personal to me. 

Sorry, but I do not agree with, "I think we can all agree no one is trying to personally attack anyone or dispute any one poster's contribution to the list, nor tell them how to post." In actuality, "telling them how to post" has been the subject matter of most of the posts to this thread.

The ability to freely (and politely) express opinions on boards such as this is important to me. I have heard this phrase many, many times on this board, "Its not always what you say but how you say that leaves an impression." The "how you say it" part is very difficult to control when we are communicating via the written word and do not have the benefit of speaking to each other. Further, it is impossible to know "how to say it" to be 100% acceptable to everyone. The members on this forum represent a diverse group of people and the responsibilty of trying to analyze every word we write, so as not to offend anyone's sensibilities is a task that has little chance of success.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=63360
[/B][/QUOTE]

As I said if you don't agree then oh well. The original statement was not directed at one person. One person choose to percieve a general statement as an attack on her then so be it. I know what Sheila was trying to say I still agree with her and in no way was it an attack on Lady's mom. I stand by what I said and as others have said you either get her point or you don't.


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## lani (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by puppylucy_@May 18 2005, 06:07 PM
> *QUOTE*


*



I don't want to perpetuate a negative thread but I find myself compelled to answer your post. I am a bit confused about the statement in your post above, "I hate to see people stir up things". Lady's Mom posted a sincere and polite answer to a question and from that point on there have been several posts telling her to change her style, content, etc. It sure seems personal to me. 

Sorry, but I do not agree with, "I think we can all agree no one is trying to personally attack anyone or dispute any one poster's contribution to the list, nor tell them how to post." In actuality, "telling them how to post" has been the subject matter of most of the posts to this thread.

The ability to freely (and politely) express opinions on boards such as this is important to me. I have heard this phrase many, many times on this board, "Its not always what you say but how you say that leaves an impression." The "how you say it" part is very difficult to control when we are communicating via the written word and do not have the benefit of speaking to each other. Further, it is impossible to know "how to say it" to be 100% acceptable to everyone. The members on this forum represent a diverse group of people and the responsibilty of trying to analyze every word we write, so as not to offend anyone's sensibilities is a task that has little chance of success.

Click to expand...

*very well said. i agree. thanks for putting it that way









<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=63370
[/B][/QUOTE]


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

I had time to think about the posting this morning while driving to work. I usually don't get involved in something like went on this morning. I needed to have a serious talk with myself to see what pushed my button.
The more I thought about what was going on the more I realized that I jumped in because it looked like this posting, to me, was akin to what one might expect on another site. I sure hope it doesn't pop up like that again. As mentioned in another post, this site is growing. It's because of the friendly attitude of most of the posters. Just think how many have come here saying they feel welcome, unlike the feeling they got on another site. 
I think several of us were trying to make one point, and another group was on another tangent. I think we could keep beating this dead horse to death. We could go into such things as generalizations and expectations to explain why some post as they do, but, we all start at different points, and we are at different places in our way of expressing and comprehending. 
I don't know about you others, but I love watching the numbers grow with the new posters.


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