# plz help me save my baby



## cuki (Jun 28, 2006)

the vet let me bring the puppy home, she starting eating. but after she came home for 2 hours. she went in to coma again. i called the vet, they said if you don't have money, you shouldnt be buying this type of dog. (i paid $900 for 2 nights, and nights only, day time i pay seperately, is it so wrong that i cant afford it? why is the vet so mean







) im so mad. i was tube feeding her gatorade, and amazingly she woke up now. but still really weak!!! Anyone can tell me what to do now?


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## ddarlingfam (Mar 30, 2006)

you need to contact the breeder ASAP, this shouldn't be your problem alone!!! And the problem isn't with the breed as the vet has said it is with the breeder for allowing this waaaaay to young baby leave it's mommy. I am so sad for your baby and I hope you can get her back with her mom, that is what she needs until she is 12 weeks old!!!!!!!


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## cuki (Jun 28, 2006)

the breeder will not do anything. if she would, i would've let her take care her long time ago

and if my baby has parvo, even if the breeder would take her back to her mom, it's not gonna help.


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## dr.jaimie (Mar 23, 2004)

keeping her hydrated ..lots of fluids...is the way to help a parvo puppy..good luck


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Where did you get this poor little pup from? That's so sad. Is it someone locally?


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## cuki (Jun 28, 2006)

so keep feeding her gatorade is it ok? will parvo go away if im keeping her hydrated? if she doesn't wanna eat, what should i do?


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

Keep giving the gatorade. She needs medical attention. You need to find the money. I'm sorry but you and I are not equiped to deal with this. We had a dog here that was hospitalized for weeks with Parvo. If you can't afford to take care of it, don't affect your other dogs. I am sorry but this is so upsetting to everyone. I know you are doing the best you can. Can you borrow on a credit card???

God bless that poor puppy.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> Keep giving the gatorade. She needs medical attention. You need to find the money. I'm sorry but you and I are not equiped to deal with this. We had a dog here that was hospitalized for weeks with Parvo. If you can't afford to take care of it, don't affect your other dogs. I am sorry but this is so upsetting to everyone. I know you are doing the best you can. Can you borrow on a credit card???
> 
> God bless that poor puppy.[/B]


That's good advice! I think you're right, the pup's best chances are in clinic with specialized care.


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## cuki (Jun 28, 2006)

if i had the money, even if i had the credit card limit, i would.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> if i had the money, even if i had the credit card limit, i would.[/B]


What a tough situation to be in. Not sure how we can help you, but I wish you the best of luck.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> the breeder will not do anything. if she would, i would've let her take care her long time ago
> 
> and if my baby has parvo, even if the breeder would take her back to her mom, it's not gonna help.[/B]


Am I missing something here? I don't see, in the original post, ANYTHING about Parvo.

So you brought her home. She ate. And then went into a coma, again? When was the first tme she went into a coma?

I'm very confused on this one. Please fill me in


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Here are some links to possible financial aid for veterinary bills. The first (IMOM) is know to be very helpful if one qualifies

http://www.imom.org/

http://www.help-a-pet.org/


There are a few others that are limited to people living within certain states. If you can provide where you live I might be able to find something in that area.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

i'm so sorry to hear about all this...please keep us updated. good luck, my thoughts are with you.









when my irish setter had parvo, i syringe fed her pedialyte every 15 minutes during the day, and every hour at night. she pulled though and is a very happy, healthy dog today. she was actually vaccinated, and this happeded at 5 months of age. but, like i said...she's fine and she's 9 years old. just keep your baby hydrated.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

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Debbie, here are her other posts:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13360
http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13314

This is a very sad situation. There are 4 Yorkie puppies and one Maltese puppy in the house, a couple may have Parvo, and she does not have the money to take care of them. This is heartbreaking....


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## wagirl98665 (Jan 5, 2006)

> if i had the money, even if i had the credit card limit, i would.[/B]







What state do you live in?


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

Andrea~


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## hambys97 (Feb 25, 2005)

Hello. Sorry I haven't chimed in to be of any help with your current situation, but I don't have any advice. I lied...I do have some advice.
1. Find another vet!ASAP! There is no reason that the vet should be treating you as ill-mannered as is being done.
2. Find out about CareCredit or other (credit card) financing options that the vet may know of that you can apply for. That way you can provide your babies with the best possible care.
3. Where did you get your babies from? You said the youngest are about the same age. Did they come from the same breeder? Did you get them at the same time?
4. Have you tried feeding them any baby food? That is both high in calories and nutrients and would be a wonderful way to get some nutrition in.

Sorry so many questions, but I feel it is necessary in order to be able to respond.
I do hope your baby is trying to make a comeback, and has made it through the night







. But please let us know either way what is going on. And please know, that no one is trying to be mean or ugly to you. We all have such strong feelings for these babies that sometimes we are so upset about them being sick, we don't fully think about what we are saying.

Prayers and thoughts are with you and your family (which includes all your furbabies),


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## Sanvean (May 17, 2004)

Please contact IMOM, which someone mentioned on the previous page ... they are a wonderful group that I have donated to before.


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## cuki (Jun 28, 2006)

Thank you guys so much.







I would try to contact the IMOM. 

She is ok now. Still very weak tho. I was syringe fedding her gerber baby food, and gatorade all night. (I just bought pedialyte electrolytes water, but don't know how many hours and how much ml i should feed her? ) Every 2 hours I got up check up on her and feed her. She doesn't feel like to eat now. So i have to use syringe. Most of the time, she is just resting/sleeping. 

I do have another 3 yorkies and 1 maltese, 2 yorkies are 2 yrs old. 1 yorkie is 8 months, maltese is 2 month. i took all of them to run the test, they are all negative. but do i need to keep them really far away from the sick baby? they need a lot attention too. i can tell they feeling sad cuz all my attention is on the sick baby now. so i keep them in the same room, just don't let them near the sick baby, is that ok? also i would probably need to wash my hand before i touch them right?

i call another vet today, the assistance is very nice. she told me just feed her some honey and baby food. they said she probably have low blood sugar. 

the breeder, she actually own a small pet shop, and she breed her dogs. she even show me a baby maltese that just born last time. She have a lot dogs in the back. she gave medicine, shots and vaccine herself. when i went to her, she said the 2 puppys i bought was from korea, that's probably why they have parvovirus. and she said if the puppy is sick or anything, i have to go to her first before i go to vet


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## cuki (Jun 28, 2006)

if i go to the vet before i see her, she would not take care of the vet bill, but she never left a 24hrs phone number. my baby went into coma in 2am. i took her to the ER vet, it was kinda impossible to notify her. and i don't want her to replace me a puppy. cuz i don't think she would pay that much money to take care of her. i wanna see my baby is fine again.

Im trying my best to save her.


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## ddarlingfam (Mar 30, 2006)




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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> Thank you guys so much.
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Where do we even start? 

You got all your animals from the same 'breeder?' Sorry, Pet store owner? Do you mind if I ask how old you are? 

Let us know how we can help your poor puppy!


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## cuki (Jun 28, 2006)

i got all my dogs from different people. only the maltese and the yongest yorkie is from that same person.
im 24. I thought whoever breed the puppys and sell it called BREEDER, isn't it?


and i don't think its my fault that i bought it from this "breeder", if i didn't buy it, other people would have. The main point is she is sick, i want her to feel better. even other people bought it, even no body buys her, that doenst change the fact i dont want her to suffer. i don't care that i got riped off or whatever. i just don't like to see dog suffer.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> i got all my dogs from different people. only the maltese and the yongest yorkie is from that same person.
> im 24. I thought whoever breed the puppys and sell it called BREEDER, isn't it?[/B]


That's stretching things, I think. I'm pretty certain 'puppy miller' applies here rather than 'breeder' but I was being nice by refering to the person as a pet store owner. Please tell me you did not pay this woman a ridiculous amount of money? She does know about the parvo, right? I'm pretty certain that all the puppies/dogs she has in the back are also at risk, although I could be wrong, since I'm a new dog owner and I freely admit to not being the most knowledgable. I'm learning though!

ADDED - your puppy obviously went home with the right owner. Thank you for caring what happens to it!


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

I'm glad your little one is still hanging in there. I'm told that the worst part is the first few days. Just keep the fluids going. You might want to go to the baby department and get Pediolite to use instead of the Gatoraide. I believe it is more balanced for nutrition.

When you said pet store and Korea, you told us what you got. I know you were not aware of this, but what this woman is doing is purchasing dogs and reselling them. That is a broker. I would imagine she got in a shippment of dogs, purchased at a cheap price, and she is marking up the price.

I would report her to the health department. All the dogs in her place are at risk.

As for your others. I would not keep them in the same room. You need to do more than just wash your hands when you work with the pup. I would change clothese and shoes as well as steralize your hands. The Parvo germ can be carried about your house.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Prayers coming your way for you and your little ones.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> I'm glad your little one is still hanging in there. I'm told that the worst part is the first few days. Just keep the fluids going. You might want to go to the baby department and get Pediolite to use instead of the Gatoraide. I believe it is more balanced for nutrition.
> 
> When you said pet store and Korea, you told us what you got. I know you were not aware of this, but what this woman is doing is purchasing dogs and reselling them. That is a broker. I would imagine she got in a shippment of dogs, purchased at a cheap price, and she is marking up the price.
> 
> ...



As always, you say just the right thing.

How long does parvo live in the carpet/dirt/whatever?


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

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I don't know how long it lives, but I think it's at least months. I'm going to look it up when I come back inside. One of my rescues who is always on the back porch is missing, and I'm going on a hunt for her. She is an Irish Setter/Golden Retriever. She likes to go to the lake for snakes, so I hope she didn't get bit. 
With my old Yorkie rescue being so frail that she can hardly stand, I don't need this with Janie too. Saye a prayer for us.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

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Her whole house and yard are going to have to be bleached.
They recommend no new puppies in the house/yard for two years after having a parvo infection.
It is spread so easily, and so hard to kill. I think they said it can live at least 6 months or more.


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

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I don't know how long it lives, but I think it's at least months. I'm going to look it up when I come back inside. One of my rescues who is always on the back porch is missing, and I'm going on a hunt for her. She is an Irish Setter/Golden Retriever. She likes to go to the lake for snakes, so I hope she didn't get bit. 
With my old Yorkie rescue being so frail that she can hardly stand, I don't need this with Janie too. Saye a prayer for us.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Her whole house and yard are going to have to be bleached.
They recommend no new puppies in the house/yard for two years after having a parvo infection.
It is spread so easily, and so hard to kill. I think they said it can live at least 6 months or more.
[/B][/QUOTE]


WOW! That is scary


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

Here is a link...the good info is at the bottom.
It is copyrighted, so won't let me cut and paste...

Parvo Info


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)




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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

This is a terrible situation







.That poor little puppy.I know someone who had a parvo outbreak with her 6 week old Schnauzer pups.She did manage to save 2 of them by feeding them Gatoraide & pediolite.None of her other dogs were infected,only the Schnauzer pups.I can't imagine why a vet would let a little tiny puppy die over money.I do hope you are able to save the puppy & that your other dogs don't become sick too.I really do feel bad for you & the puppy.







I wish I knew something more to tell you that would help.


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## cuki (Jun 28, 2006)

thank you guys. I have a expenience breeder just gave me some information today. She told me to give little brownie 1cc albon suspension everyday. and also feeding her every 2 hours. But my problem now is i don't know where to get albon suspension, i'm not sure if the vet would sell it to me. buying it from other places, i need prescription. i gotta try to call the vet tomorrow to see if they would sell it to me. Last time they only gave me a really small bottle. So I don't know.

Thank you guys very much!


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## eyespy (Jan 31, 2006)

You can get albon susp. at www.petmeds.com--they also have fedex overnite shipping--good luck


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## suzimalteselover (Mar 27, 2006)

This is absolutely heartbreaking! I pray that your baby pulls through...and the rest are not at risk.
GRRR....plse report this woman, whom you purch'd your puppies through, she needs to be shut down!!


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## francine (Jan 4, 2005)

I will keep you and your little one in my prayers! Francine


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I believe this is the same person that is writing on the yorkie board I go to. The pup is on

Albon. I think the pup is also hypoglycemic so karo and nutrical are needed every couple

hours. 



Cuki you mentioned if you didn't buy them someone else would. Well, maybe, but you see,

if we all quit buying from these people who sell pups indiscriminately then they will quit

breeding this way and selling. It takes that one person to stop...and think. Then the next.



I hope your pup recovers. I also hope you called Betty (from the yorkie board) as she offered

to help and is very knowledgeable.


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

Call me an old cynic, if you will, and I am somewhat cursed with a research background. I have tried to keep quiet but, at the risk of causing offence, here goes:

I think I have established from three split threads there are 5 little dogs in this household. 2 Yorkies both 2yrs, 1 Yorkie at 8 months, 1 Yorkie at 10 weeks, 1 Maltese at 8 weeks. Please correct me, anyone, if I am wrong, because I haven't looked at Yorkie forums. What I can't establish though is which one(s) got sick, when and from what ailment. In trying to do that, I came across some err... other questions.

June 29: Post #3 on 
http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13314


> Sorry for so many questions, but something isn't right.[/B]


There may be language implications but I think the poster has done her best to answer most of the questions. However, because of so much cross-posting (three separate threads running in two separate forums on SM plus goodness knows how many other forums) she may be as confused as I am. Also she could be posting answers on SM to questions on other forums. On the other hand, there is one telling, nay, searching question on SM that has not been answered:

July 1: Post #16 on 
http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13399


> What state do you live in?[/B]


Are we assuming the original poster lives in the US because, if so, there has been no answer to this as far as I can tell. And because of animal health regulations, viz:

July 1: Post #28 on 
http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13399


> Her whole house and yard are going to have to be bleached.
> They recommend no new puppies in the house/yard for two years after having a parvo infection.
> It is spread so easily, and so hard to kill. I think they said it can live at least 6 months or more.[/B]


Now that is scary (as has been said before). Because:

June 29: Post # 15 on 
http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13314


> And we are moving to a new place has a big private patio this week. so i can let the babies play outside when it's not that hot.[/B]


We have to hope that other dog owners who may move into these premises are advised.

There may very well be much wider ramifications:

July 1: Post #20 on 
http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13399


> she gave medicine, shots and vaccine herself. when i went to her, she said the 2 puppys i bought was from *korea*, that's probably why they have parvovirus. and she said if the puppy is sick or anything, i have to go to her first before i go to vet[/B]


In the UK shots and vaccinations mean much the same thing but they have to be administered by a Licenced Veterinary Practitioner or by juniors/students/experienced KC accredited breeders who must be supervised by a Vet. How does the US stand on this?

The UK quarantine laws would have prevented these Korean imports from being sold at such a tender age, because Korea is not one of the countries to which the UK Pet Passport Scheme applies. They would have gone into quarantine. 

The USA is not oblivious to the inherent dangers, either. Korea is not considered to be a rabies-free country and we MUST bear in mind that rabies can lie dormant for quite some time. 
*National Center for Infectious Diseases*


> *Dogs (Note: this section updated March 29, 2006)*
> 
> A general certificate of health is not required by CDC for entry of pet dogs into the United States, although some airlines or *states* may require them. However, pet dogs are subject to inspection at ports of entry and may be denied entry into the United States if they have evidence of an infectious disease that can be transmitted to humans. If a dog appears to be ill, further examination by a licensed veterinarian at the owner's expense might be required at the port of entry.
> 
> ...


This post is made in the interests of animal (and general) health world-wide and not meant to cause offence in anyway to human animal lovers.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

That was interesting info, Lorraine. Thanks for posting all that.


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## Dove (Feb 12, 2006)

Well I am sure this will offend some but I am to the point that I really don't care...I have watched these threads and up until now have kept my mouth shut. But I believe this is all a scam...She has the money to buy all these high end dogs but don't have the money to pay for medical expenses and comes here and from what I am guessing other forums also...I don't think she was looking for people to post places where she could maybe get finanical help I think she was hoping that we would just start sending her money. I question if she even has any dogs at all. I of course could be wrong but even if I am wrong about her having dogs I still have to agree with what she posted about what her vet said if she can't afford the medical attention that these dogs need then why does she have these kind of dogs at all and to have so many of them. People like her really make me mad they want high end dogs or any animal for that fact and then don't want to pay when they need medical attention...Before I will believe she even has these dogs I will have to see pictures of them which to the best of my knowlegde she hasn't posted any. If she does have sick dogs I feel really bad for the dogs but she needs to let someone who can afford them take them so they can get the medical attention they need.


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## MellieMel (Mar 11, 2006)

Does anyone have an update on how the pup(s) are doing??


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## ddarlingfam (Mar 30, 2006)

> Well I am sure this will offend some but I am to the point that I really don't care...I have watched these threads and up until now have kept my mouth shut. But I believe this is all a scam...She has the money to buy all these high end dogs but don't have the money to pay for medical expenses and comes here and from what I am guessing other forums also...I don't think she was looking for people to post places where she could maybe get finanical help I think she was hoping that we would just start sending her money. I question if she even has any dogs at all. I of course could be wrong but even if I am wrong about her having dogs I still have to agree with what she posted about what her vet said if she can't afford the medical attention that these dogs need then why does she have these kind of dogs at all and to have so many of them. People like her really make me mad they want high end dogs or any animal for that fact and then don't want to pay when they need medical attention...Before I will believe she even has these dogs I will have to see pictures of them which to the best of my knowlegde she hasn't posted any. If she does have sick dogs I feel really bad for the dogs but she needs to let someone who can afford them take them so they can get the medical attention they need.[/B]



thank you for posting this, I agree completely


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> But I believe this is all a scam...[/B]


Oh, err, um, well OK.
And I was trying soooo hard not to say that in Open Forum








Admittedly, I have found similar threads on forums for several expensive breeds. I am sorry to say they, too, have a thread about how the forum members saved a poor dog that needed a lot of money spent to keep it alive (viz Ringo).

Just now, I'm trying to track down exactly where they are coming from. Not your normal (419) scam, but playing the forum members in a very similar way. 

cuki, please come back and prove our/my suspicions are unfounded.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

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Adding a pet to one's home is a huge responsibility, both financially and emotionally. In order to do what is in the best interest of the pup, it is imperative that we give this decision the serious thought it deserves regarding whether we will have enough time to spend with him/her and whether we are equipped financially to cover whatever medical needs arise. These are living, breathing creatures we are bringing in to our homes and the huge commitment that this entails should not be taken lightly.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

> Well I am sure this will offend some but I am to the point that I really don't care...I have watched these threads and up until now have kept my mouth shut. But I believe this is all a scam...She has the money to buy all these high end dogs but don't have the money to pay for medical expenses and comes here and from what I am guessing other forums also...I don't think she was looking for people to post places where she could maybe get finanical help I think she was hoping that we would just start sending her money. I question if she even has any dogs at all. I of course could be wrong but even if I am wrong about her having dogs I still have to agree with what she posted about what her vet said if she can't afford the medical attention that these dogs need then why does she have these kind of dogs at all and to have so many of them. People like her really make me mad they want high end dogs or any animal for that fact and then don't want to pay when they need medical attention...Before I will believe she even has these dogs I will have to see pictures of them which to the best of my knowlegde she hasn't posted any. If she does have sick dogs I feel really bad for the dogs but she needs to let someone who can afford them take them so they can get the medical attention they need.[/B]


Well I am glad someone finally said it.. I agree totally and I think it's great that
you said what you said..

Andrea~


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## kkrize (Feb 4, 2006)

> Well I am sure this will offend some but I am to the point that I really don't care...I have watched these threads and up until now have kept my mouth shut. But I believe this is all a scam...She has the money to buy all these high end dogs but don't have the money to pay for medical expenses and comes here and from what I am guessing other forums also...I don't think she was looking for people to post places where she could maybe get finanical help I think she was hoping that we would just start sending her money. I question if she even has any dogs at all. I of course could be wrong but even if I am wrong about her having dogs I still have to agree with what she posted about what her vet said if she can't afford the medical attention that these dogs need then why does she have these kind of dogs at all and to have so many of them. People like her really make me mad they want high end dogs or any animal for that fact and then don't want to pay when they need medical attention...Before I will believe she even has these dogs I will have to see pictures of them which to the best of my knowlegde she hasn't posted any. If she does have sick dogs I feel really bad for the dogs but she needs to let someone who can afford them take them so they can get the medical attention they need.[/B]


I, too, have watched this thread with horror and disbelief wondering if it was real or not.







But when it was mentioned that she may be posting on other sites, I became suspicious. If she truly does need some financial assistance, she does not seem to be responding to the many suggestions from this board on how to help her dog's get the professional care they need. If this is real I pray for the dogs. I think that all too often people do not think through the time, care, training and financial responsility required when taking in a dog and simply repond to the cute factor. That is why we have so many dogs coming from bad situations and needing rescuring.


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## LMJ (Feb 16, 2006)

The original poster joined SM on June 28th. Not even a week ago. Does that seem suspicious to anyone else?


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

A yorkie breeder friend of mine talked to her last nite and the pup's temp is normal now. No other dogs

sick as of yet. She is on Albon and the breeder thinks it is coccidia, not parvo. The vet had given

her a round of albon to give to her, but she feared she needed more as some thought it was parvo

but tested negative. Parvo can look like coccidia in the beginning.



Sometimes we judge too quickly. I'm guilty of it too. This person has a language barrier and

is not totally familiar with what we do.


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## MickeysMom (Jun 16, 2006)

Hmmm, I think I have to agree with what a lot of you are saying. And I am so sorry if I am wrong, but it really sounds to me like she wants us to send her money.
I think if you are going to get ANY dog, you need to be aware that they DO and WILL get sick at some point. Most likely not seriously ill, but you must accept that it can happen. And that it will be very costly. Especially when you have 5 dogs, and buy from some crazy woman who gives her own vaccines. That is just crazy. Red flag anyone?
Some people need to understand that these little ones are not accessories!!!!! They just want a little doggie to carry around with them like Paris Hilton. It makes me sooooo mad! There are financial responsibilities that come along with any pet, not just the initial cost of the puppy. 
If you cannot afford the care of the puppy, contact a rescue group in your area and see if they can help. And if you do, in fact, live in the US, report this so-called breeder to the aspca.


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## Dove (Feb 12, 2006)

> A yorkie breeder friend of mine talked to her last nite and the pup's temp is normal now. No other dogs
> 
> sick as of yet. She is on Albon and the breeder thinks it is coccidia, not parvo. The vet had given
> 
> ...


Did your breeder friend go to her house? or did she phone/email her? And even if she really does have dogs that don't change that she has all these dogs and don't have the money to take care of them and seems to think that others should do the paying.


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

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Sorry, i may have missed something but where does it say that she wants others to pay?

I think we should take Brits advice here & stop Judging!


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## wagirl98665 (Jan 5, 2006)

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She's a 24 year old Korean girl named Sihui Zhong, that explains the poor english. I PM'ed her to see what state she lived in, in hopes I could find her some financial help with her Vet bills. She didn't hesitate to send me back her name, address & phone #. I told her I would do some checking around and get back to her. I have done some checking around, but unfortunely havn't had any luck. I was hoping that over the weekend she would come back to SM and post an update on the sick puppy, but she didn't.


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

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Brenda, would you come back?

Thankyou for trying to help her







you are a gem!


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

Brenda, would you come back?

Thankyou for trying to help her







you are a gem!
[/QUOTE]







I would also like to say Thank You for helping her. I hope the baby is getting better.


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## Dove (Feb 12, 2006)

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If she wasn't asking for us to send her money to help pay for the medical expenses then I am sorry but that is the way I read it...


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## wagirl98665 (Jan 5, 2006)

Well I suppose people read things differently sometimes. I have to say it like I see it. No where in any of her posts did she actually ask for money, but merly explained the costs of the Vet bills and the fact that she didin't know where to get the money for the vet visits or the required meds needed to get rid of the Parvo. I have to admit I was very suspicious because of the way she suddenly showed on SM and like another member pointed out...she never even introduced herself, never had been here before or posted, until she had this problem. It's quite possibly true that she was hoping that people would feel so sorry for her and start sending out those checks...but it didn't happen did it? Not that I feel that I have to defend my actions to anyone, but the reason I PM'ed her was to see if Icould find her some FREE help in her area. Somplace to take the sick puppy for treatment and meds...that's it! I would help anyone in need, that's just who I am.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

Maybe we are missing something and maybe she is telling the truth, that being said








cause I just said it...
Does not change the fact that 2x already she did the same thing with buying these puppies.
It is not her fault with the wording of her posts, now that you have explained where she comes from, that is why I thought she was young. But common sense why do you go back twice, I don't know if she was asking for money, I did kind of read it that way too. So maybe we should just educate her a little, but she needs to know this is serious, it's not a joke..she should report this fruit/bat(nice word







) so called breeder and be done with it.. I mean how on earth is she taking care of five.. I hope this is for real and I hope she gets help and the little ones will be okay..I really do..



Thank You,
Andrea~


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## Dove (Feb 12, 2006)

> Well I suppose people read things differently sometimes. I have to say it like I see it. No where in any of her posts did she actually ask for money, but merly explained the costs of the Vet bills and the fact that she didin't know where to get the money for the vet visits or the required meds needed to get rid of the Parvo. I have to admit I was very suspicious because of the way she suddenly showed on SM and like another member pointed out...she never even introduced herself, never had been here before or posted, until she had this problem. It's quite possibly true that she was hoping that people would feel so sorry for her and start sending out those checks...but it didn't happen did it? Not that I feel that I have to defend my actions to anyone, but the reason I PM'ed her was to see if Icould find her some FREE help in her area. Somplace to take the sick puppy for treatment and meds...that's it! I would help anyone in need, that's just who I am.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



After what I have posted in this thread I am sure there are people who won't believe this but I too am someone who will help anytime I can but when it looks to me like things are not adding up then I won't until it is proved to be true...You are right she never out right ask for money but from what she did say it looks to me like she is asking without saying the words hoping people will get the hint...I just really hope that if there is indeed sick puppy(s) that they get the care they need and that in the future she thinks about the future before she get another animal she can't afford. I won't say anything else...


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

I will say at one point it crossed my mind "if this was for real". 
However, since I had no way of knowing.. in my mind I have assume it is...and to me bottom line , and for the moment, the main thing is the pup's well-being.

here is a link to list various financial aid organizations. some are limited to state.. some may be by breed.

http://www.sparkyfightsback.com/financial_aid.htm

Having been so many years involved with canine diabetes board and pet cancer boards.. we do now and again get a suspicious poster... it is rare.. but does happen. However, since the welfare of a pooch may well be at risk.. we try to err on the side of caution and just assume that it is legit. If not,.. the 'creme comes to the top before long" and it becomes obvious, .. and we simply wasted a bit of time trying to help a 'non-dog". Many owners when they have a sick pooch.. are in a state of frenzy.. they are scared and they often don't express themselves well. Helping them thru the process calms them down.. more accurate info comes thru and a pooch is on the way to being helped.

I just have a few thoughts I'd like to 'put out there" regarding the financial thing.
Yes, I agree that one has to be prepared to take care of ones pet. However, sometimes "stuff-happens" that takes us totally off guard. Also, the average person doesn't expect vet problems at $500 per day or several bills that add into the thousands.
I know we didn't expect these with Missy ,but I can tell you, we spent many, many, many thousands of dollars for her care. I could easily have had 2 "top of the line" Maltese and had money left over. Missy happened when we were at a stage of life when we could afford it. In my 20's no way. Though I did have a dog in my 20's..just lucky she was a healthy dog that only required the "basics" in vet care.
I know a gal on our diabetic board who had a little Pom. She adored that dog! The dog was very sick..poor vet advise..and by the time she found a vet that knew about diabetic care, the little one had to be in ICU for several days. No sooner better and home.. and her husband got his 'pink-slip".. a few months later.. she ( owner) had a car accident and her working ability was diminshed for some time. So where at the begiining of the year all was fine and dandy.. mid way their whole life changed .. and with that so did their finances.
Thankfully with help from family and friends.. then came out of it and the little dog did well. Had they not had that 'back-up.. who knows.
I think we all have to prepare for financial "crunch" for our pets as best we can. We also have to remember...
"there but for the Grace of God..go I". I can tell you I thanked God every single day ,sometimes more than once,... for allowing us to be able to give Missy the best of care that she needed. I know had she been in some homes.. even very loving and caring homes.. they may not have been able to provide that and what a heartbreak that must be!


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

> I will say at one point it crossed my mind "if this was for real".
> However, since I had no way of knowing.. in my mind I have assume it is...and to me bottom line , and for the moment, the main thing is the pup's well-being.
> 
> here is a link to list various financial aid organizations. some are limited to state.. some may be by breed.
> ...










Amen









What's the old saying "dont judge a book by its cover"


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## NC's Mom (Oct 23, 2004)

Is she Chinese Korean? I ask because that is certainly not a Korean name and I have curiosity problems.


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## wagirl98665 (Jan 5, 2006)

> Is she Chinese Korean? I ask because that is certainly not a Korean name and I have curiosity problems.[/B]




She might be Chinese, I just assumed because she said she got her dogs from Koreans. My fault.


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## NC's Mom (Oct 23, 2004)

She likely got the dogs from my area. Maybe not directly, but they probably came from here. I live in what is probably Korea's BIGGEST puppymill area. I get constant warnings from my vet about various things going around due to the puppymills. It was awful when I first got here as Little C was still under a year and she kept coming down with all sorts of things. She's toughened up considerably, thankfully. I still spend a lot of money on constant testing just to be sure both are healthy and will have the vet test them for everything under the sun before we leave for America. Is "Mee" still a member here? When I told her the name of my area, she instantly recognized it as an "infamous" puppymill area. (Not something I knew about until AFTER I had taken a job and moved here)


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

cuki
Where are you?

You posted very regularly and answered questions up until about 2 days ago when doubts started being expressed about the validity of the situation in which you find yourself. But, it must be clear to you that many people on SM support you and want to help you to help your puppy/puppies. Some are, obviously, in a position to advise you how to get financial help.

As for the doubters, I hope you will appreciate, cuki, that there is so much scam on the web and many people have been duped in the past or know several who have lost money. I understand, from someone in the anti-scam business, this is a new-ish technique of the good old 419 scammers: the ones that send silly e-mails, offering to give people money from the bank account of a dead leader of their country, to e-mail addresses they have found on the web or have purchased from other scammers. The traditional 419 success rates are dropping dramatically and they are beginning to use different techniques. I have also found (because I went searching this evening) people posting in many places about sick animals (not just dogs) that they cannot afford to have treated - none of them actually ask for money. There are usually one or two curt responses only. The good people of SM are giving you very much more "cybertime". I am one of the doubters, but I would love to be proved wrong - for the sake of the puppies. 

Please return and talk to us.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> Hmmm, I think I have to agree with what a lot of you are saying. And I am so sorry if I am wrong, but it really sounds to me like she wants us to send her money.
> I think if you are going to get ANY dog, you need to be aware that they DO and WILL get sick at some point. Most likely not seriously ill, but you must accept that it can happen. And that it will be very costly. Especially when you have 5 dogs, and buy from some crazy woman who gives her own vaccines. That is just crazy. Red flag anyone?
> Some people need to understand that these little ones are not accessories!!!!! They just want a little doggie to carry around with them like Paris Hilton. It makes me sooooo mad! There are financial responsibilities that come along with any pet, not just the initial cost of the puppy.
> If you cannot afford the care of the puppy, contact a rescue group in your area and see if they can help. And if you do, in fact, live in the US, report this so-called breeder to the aspca.[/B]



Please educate yourself on breeders giving their own shots. You might find that some of the top breeders do this, and I certainly don't see this as a red flag. As one Maltese breeder you would all recognize stated in posts on another site, "why take your pups to the vet and expose them to illness when you can do the shots and give immunity before the vet visit?" 
Also, in the case of the toy breeds, it might be safer to have this done because vets only keep the shots that vaccinate for so many things at once in their office. For instance, they may have only those which include Lepto and Corona. Some even insist on giving several shots at once. Personally, I only give Parvo and Distemper for at least the first shot, and there is no vet in my town who supplies this type vaccine. 
On the breeder site I'm on, we have just recently discussed this. Many top breeders see this as protecting their pups. This doesn't mean that a vet visit isn't done. It's just done later, after the pup has had a chance to establish some immunity by having shots in their own environment rather than a clinic where sick animals are seen.


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## ddarlingfam (Mar 30, 2006)

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i see what you are saying and totally agree if she had bought the pup from a breeder but she bought the puppy from a pet store. It doesn't really matter any which way though the puppy is sick and it needs special care and I'm sure that's something that everyone agrees with.

Amber

btw-how is the puppy doing???


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> Please educate yourself on breeders giving their own shots. You might find that some of the top breeders do this, and I certainly don't see this as a red flag. As one Maltese breeder you would all recognize stated in posts on another site, "why take your pups to the vet and expose them to illness when you can do the shots and give immunity before the vet visit?"
> Also, in the case of the toy breeds, it might be safer to have this done because vets only keep the shots that vaccinate for so many things at once in their office. For instance, they may have only those which include Lepto and Corona. Some even insist on giving several shots at once. Personally, I only give Parvo and Distemper for at least the first shot, and there is no vet in my town who supplies this type vaccine.
> On the breeder site I'm on, we have just recently discussed this. Many top breeders see this as protecting their pups. This doesn't mean that a vet visit isn't done. It's just done later, after the pup has had a chance to establish some immunity by having shots in their own environment rather than a clinic where sick animals are seen.[/B]


Very valid points. Having read the thread right through, would you consider the seller to be a "top" breeder, in every sense of the term? Indeed is the seller an actual breeder of any description?


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

I think we are talking about apples and oranges here. I think the poor girl got her pups from a pet store/puppy broker. There is no indication that she is the breeder, since they were from Korea. The statement I responded to was:

Especially when you have 5 dogs, and buy from some crazy woman who gives her own vaccines. That is just crazy. Red flag anyone?

As you can see, what I was responding to was the reference that people who give their own shots send up red flags, or, at least that's the way I read this statement.


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## ddarlingfam (Mar 30, 2006)

> I think we are talking about apples and oranges here. I think the poor girl got her pups from a pet store/puppy broker. There is no indication that she is the breeder, since they were from Korea. The statement I responded to was:
> 
> Especially when you have 5 dogs, and buy from some crazy woman who gives her own vaccines. That is just crazy. Red flag anyone?
> 
> As you can see, what I was responding to was the reference that people who give their own shots send up red flags, or, at least that's the way I read this statement.[/B]



I see what you are saying, you were only comiting on the fact that giving vacinations is not an uncomon thing among breeders. I do feel sorry for her in the respect that she didn't realize what she was getting herself into (not everyone understands about puppymills and petstores) What does bother me is the fact that it doesn't seem as though she wants to learn from her mistakes. Although the language barrier may be the problem. I just hope the babies all are ok and she learns not to repeat the same mistakes.

Amber


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

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We really don't know if this lady doesn't want to learn or if she has just gone elsewhere to get the information. On the positive side, she has talked with a breeder for help with the pups. While I know people here mean well, with the language barrier, as well as the lack of knowledge to begin with, she may just feel as if she is going to be attacked if she comes on again. I know I questioned her when she first started posting because of the five dogs. I suspected she was getting them for breeding. I wonder if the adults came from the same place because I can't imagine anyone selling them. I hope they go for spay/neuter.


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> I think we are talking about apples and oranges here. I think the poor girl got her pups from a pet store/puppy broker. There is no indication that she is the breeder, since they were from Korea. The statement I responded to was:
> 
> Especially when you have 5 dogs, and buy from some crazy woman who gives her own vaccines. That is just crazy. Red flag anyone?
> 
> As you can see, what I was responding to was the reference that people who give their own shots send up red flags, or, at least that's the way I read this statement.[/B]


Yes I do see. At the risk of going even further off-topic, I queried this because of your post that started "Please educate yourself on breeders giving their own shots". I wondered what was meant by a top breeder. But now you have cleared up my earlier question which was:

In the UK shots and vaccinations mean much the same thing but they have to be administered by a Licenced Veterinary Practitioner or by juniors/students/experienced KC accredited breeders who must be supervised by a Vet. How does the US stand on this?

IF I was thinking of importing an American bred dog into the UK, I should think it would be quite difficult to get all the Licensed Veterinary certification required for the UK Pet Passport Scheme and there is no way I would have a dog go into quarantine. I am most definitely NOT considering import particularly as I asked a question on a different breed forum about international shipping and, I am sorry to say, I was scammed via PM and email by people calling themselves top US breeders telling me they do not ship air cargo but would be delighted to deliver personally as hand luggage to London - business class no doubt - price to cover air fare and a few days doing touristy things


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## MickeysMom (Jun 16, 2006)

> I think we are talking about apples and oranges here. I think the poor girl got her pups from a pet store/puppy broker. There is no indication that she is the breeder, since they were from Korea. The statement I responded to was:
> 
> Especially when you have 5 dogs, and buy from some crazy woman who gives her own vaccines. That is just crazy. Red flag anyone?
> 
> As you can see, what I was responding to was the reference that people who give their own shots send up red flags, or, at least that's the way I read this statement.[/B]



I am aware that breeders give their own vaccines. I meant that this woman is obviously not a breeder and probably not very educated in giving shots, and probably doesn't know what to do if there is a reaction. Just my opinion, as i don't know who this woman is. I do not mean to offend anyone.
As for vet shots, we absolutely do have the single shots available. Some of them have to be mixed by hand if the client wants the combo shots. And of course, there are the combo shots already mixed. So I will educate myself on breeders, as I admit i know not much about them, and I feel you should maybe educate yourself a little more about a good vet practice. 
I'll say it again, I do not want to offend anyone, I am just simply offering my opinions. Take them for what they're worth. I have seen a lot of mistakes made by highly accredited rescue groups who vaccinate, and have seen puppies DIE when they have reactions, or if something else goes wrong. I really feel that any shot, sub-q or iv or im should be given by an educated person, obviously, who can recognize the signs of reaction. This pet shop owner or whatever you want to call her, does not seem to have the pups well being in her mind at all. 
That is all I meant. I don't want to sound un-educated or rude. Like I said, I am simply offering my opinions and I apologize if it came off the wrong way.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> I am aware that breeders give their own vaccines. I meant that this woman is obviously not a breeder and probably not very educated in giving shots, and probably doesn't know what to do if there is a reaction. Just my opinion, as i don't know who this woman is. I do not mean to offend anyone.
> As for vet shots, we absolutely do have the single shots available. Some of them have to be mixed by hand if the client wants the combo shots. And of course, there are the combo shots already mixed. So I will educate myself on breeders, as I admit i know not much about them, and I feel you should maybe educate yourself a little more about a good vet practice.
> I'll say it again, I do not want to offend anyone, I am just simply offering my opinions. Take them for what they're worth. I have seen a lot of mistakes made by highly accredited rescue groups who vaccinate, and have seen puppies DIE when they have reactions, or if something else goes wrong. I really feel that any shot, sub-q or iv or im should be given by an educated person, obviously, who can recognize the signs of reaction. This pet shop owner or whatever you want to call her, does not seem to have the pups well being in her mind at all.
> That is all I meant. I don't want to sound un-educated or rude. Like I said, I am simply offering my opinions and I apologize if it came off the wrong way.[/B]


I wholeheartedly agree with you. Please don't apologize for offering your opinion. You obviously are very knowledgeable and I'm so glad that you are sharing your knowledge with us.


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## MickeysMom (Jun 16, 2006)

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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

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You are fortunate to have the option of single shots. I have checked in my area, and we don't. I have interviewed a number of vets, and I have used a number of them on trial. The only problem I've ever had with shots has been at the vet. If I were one to sue or try to have the license pulled on vets here, I have written, documented proof on more than one serious error in vet care made that cost the life of a precious dog. I can tell you stories that would make you run from some of these yo yo's. Just as in any field, there are the good and the bad. I have a very good vet I enjoy working with, but he doesn't do the same type shots for their first ones. He understands why I do the type shots I do, and we have a good respect for each other. I do have him give the five in one at twelve weeks when I take the pup in for a physical.


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## MickeysMom (Jun 16, 2006)

I suppose I am fortunate to work in a state of the art vet practice. We will NEVER force shots on clients who opt not to have them done, (except maybe state regulated, like rabies) and the docs are very conservative on giving shots, especially on small babies and older dogs. 
Maybe it is a state thing? I don't understand why a vet wouldn't carry the singles. A few of my drs have stopped giving the corona all together. 
I could also tell you stories about breeders that are clients of ours who have no clue what they're doing. (according to the dr) and have lost litter after litter. It's so sad. And also about mistakes MANY MANY rescue groups have made. It is just so frustrating when they don't educate themselves and when they blatantly ignore the advice of the vet. They have good intentions, and I won't knock them bc they are doing a great thing, but sometimes they screw up BIG TIME.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> I suppose I am fortunate to work in a state of the art vet practice. We will NEVER force shots on clients who opt not to have them done, (except maybe state regulated, like rabies) and the docs are very conservative on giving shots, especially on small babies and older dogs.
> Maybe it is a state thing? I don't understand why a vet wouldn't carry the singles. A few of my drs have stopped giving the corona all together.
> I could also tell you stories about breeders that are clients of ours who have no clue what they're doing. (according to the dr) and have lost litter after litter. It's so sad. And also about mistakes MANY MANY rescue groups have made. It is just so frustrating when they don't educate themselves and when they blatantly ignore the advice of the vet. They have good intentions, and I won't knock them bc they are doing a great thing, but sometimes they screw up BIG TIME.[/B]



Yes, you are fortunate to work in a good vet practice. I don't know if it's a state thing, as we do have good vets here. I think that one finds good and bad in any area of the country, whether it be with a vet, breeder, or rescue group. That's why education is important to find the right people to work with, whether it be when one is in search of a vet, breeder, or rescue.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I have to say that if everyone were to consider how much it costs during a life

threatening long term vet bill, few of us would have dogs at all.



Most dogs do not get parvo or coccidia. Most dogs do not get bitten by vicious

dogs or other animals. Most dogs do not have liver shunts. Most dogs sail

through life with little medical bills. 



Her mistake was getting the dog from a disreputable source. But then...many

of us have done that before education in that area. She now knows to do her 

homework. She did it in some areas but not this one. 



I believe she was telling her story of vets bills, etc to vent and out of stress from

a sick puppy, worry that the others would fall ill and concern that the bills may 

mount to the point she couldn't help her baby. 



On top of all this, they are in the process of moving. This may be why you haven't

heard more from her...or perhaps she is disappointed in the responses.



I know full well what it's like to move with a sick baby. I did it last week. THis girl's problems

were even more acute than mine and I was beside myself with worry of how my little

Bebe would handle the hustle bustle of moving, a new environment and new medication

all at once. 



I know there are a lot of scammers online. But isn't it much easier to lend an ear and

some solid advice than to expend energy on "perhaps a scammer"? No one is forced

to help. No one asked for money, nor would they even have to give if asked.


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## wagirl98665 (Jan 5, 2006)

Britt...Very well put from someone who's been there with a sick dog and tremendous vet bills.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> I have to say that if everyone were to consider how much it costs during a life
> 
> threatening long term vet bill, few of us would have dogs at all.
> 
> ...



I may be wrong but I think what probably bothered most of us is not that she bought a puppy from a disreputable source or even that she was having trouble paying for unexpected expenses. But rather that she had 5 young dogs and apparently limited funds. From experience with my first Malt, Rosebud, I know how difficult it was to handle the thousands in vet bills that she incurred. But my Mom had offered to take care of any unexpected expenses that I couldn't handle, so she was my lifeline back then.

Five dogs can mean significant expenses, even if it is just wellness visits, shots, grooming, etc.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

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Your right on the money( not real money I mean the point..) as far as I am concerned..

Thanks,
Andrea~


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

I've not commented on the problem this poster had, or the guessing her background or reasons behind her posts or reasons for having 5 dogs, etc., etc.











Say I'm leary, jaded, suspicious or cautious----I'm not sure, but I could see from the beginning I couldn't be of help to her. Partly because there were some flags, partly because I believed from the start that there was a language problem, partly because I viewed the situation like I do a Pet Store with puppies. Like 'If you can't fix it by buying all the puppies and no matter what you do the problem it still there, then stay out of the store so you won't have to grieve over the situation.'











I feel terrible about her puppies, sick or not.







I feel less sorry for her, although I do--provided she's honest. I think she either clammed up because even with a language barrier she could see we were on to her or critical of her life style (in relation to her dogs), or the puppy doesn't have Parvo and is getting better, or someone on one of the boards she's on provided the help or money she needed--so crisis over, or she busy moving.........







.










but I like the part about getting or giving shots. Nice off the subject side story with good information! Funny how one thing leads to others.








That's one of the best things about discussions.


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

Is pet insurance not commonly or automatically taken out in the US?

I had to think long and hard when I got a few insurance quotes for a Maltese. "Get yourself a mutt, much cheaper insurance." I said, "Nah you've wanted a Maltese for so long and the annual premium is a fraction of what the dog and all his bits and pieces are going to cost". I don't often talk to myself but most times both of me make the best sense









OK - not everyone can afford insurance, although they seem to be able to afford high-end dogs. Nevertheless, there are many organisations that will help owners financially if they cannot pay the fees. In the UK, although that would involve something like a means-test, very few owners turn down the offer of help for the sake of their dog. But, all too often these organisations just do not have the funds to be able to give ongoing financial help to an individual, particularly if that person owns a number of dogs.

I hope we can rely on the opinion it was concern and frustration over the health of the puppy that led to the lists of costs. But, as well as advice on animal health and welfare the original poster is being freely offered now, I fervently hope she will also be offered and accept some solid advice on the potential ongoing costs and how to defray them.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Ah, well. Just shoot me. I have two rescues and two maltese.

If all came down with something at once I would be a bag lady.

Life is a risk and sometimes we take on more than others and

sometimes it bites us in the beeee hind. 



I have seen many buy from disreputable breeders under the guise

of "if I don't, someone else will". I've seen some buy them even

after KNOWING it's wrong. Do we shoot them or what? Some

people have bigger hearts and let it rule their heads, but they 

mean well and it seems to me the best thing we can do is to

keep repeating what we've learned and pray it sinks in without

casting judgement. God knows I would love to see no one buy

from the wrong people, but until the word is out and all listen, it's

going to continue.


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## Baxter and Wally's Mom (Aug 18, 2005)

Well this is an exciting thread. I really don't want to comment on my emotional feelings, or gut instincts, or belief or non-belief of the whole story. But I'd like to pray. For her to have the financial ability to well take care of the 5 dogs she has, for the little sick one that it is well on the way to full recovery, and for whatever He sees as the best way for us to help her even if it is just prayers and advice. I also pray she comes back with some good news about the babies health. AMEN!

I've never know a financial woe to not be solved by taking it to Him and no where else. So many have come here to ask for prayer and so I'll do it for her. 

God bless us all!!


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> ... Some people have bigger hearts and let it rule their heads, but they
> mean well...[/B]


And some people try to let their heads rule their hearts, but that does not they do not mean well either. Make no mistake I cried so much at the start of this thread I went into emotion overdrive. But what good is that to anybody? Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and should be able to express them without fear of treading on broken eggshells in a forum as mature as this one. Live and let live.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> And some people try to let their heads rule their hearts, but that does not they do not mean well either. Make no mistake I cried some much at the start of this thread I went into emotion overdrive. But what good is that to anybody? * Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and should be able to express them without fear of treading on broken eggshells in a forum as mature as this one. * Live and let live.[/B]


Yes!!! I so agree. As long as we are not rude to one another, I really enjoy hearing all sides of an issue and others' opinions.


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

> [ Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and should be able to express them without fear of treading on broken eggshells in a forum as mature as this one.[/B]


'Ey! Who ya' callin' old ?!!


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