# Where would you look for your next maltese?



## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

I thought this poll might be useful to refer new members who are on the puppy search, so they can see where Spoiled Maltese members would look if they were going to add a new maltese to their home. Even if you have absolutely no plans to add another fluffer to your home, please answer hypothetically! The poll is anonymous, so please answer honestly. 

If you answer 'other' to either of these questions and wish to elaborate, feel free to do so!


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## hillary&lola (Apr 4, 2006)

i would definally buy my next maltse for chalet or divine or one of the great breeders out there. i had no clue that there were breeders like that when i got lola! you live and learn


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## NewMom328 (Apr 15, 2005)

hmm i dont know if Divine is on the ama list, but i would imagine they are so i put that one for where i got jett from. kylee is from a puppymill but i couldnt vote 2 times.... just as hillary&lola said- you live and learn!


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

I can complicate your poll. My last dog came from a show breeder in Italy. I don't need anymore, but if I did, I have my eye on another European breeder.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

As usual I leapt before I looked - I would absolutely make my next dog a rescue. No question.
That said, I wouldn't trade Bonnie for any amount of money. Just that next time will be a rescue - or two...


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

I got my pups from a hobby/backyard breeder who is trying to improve her lines and may someday be into showing...if I add another pup to my family, I will most likely return to her. Most won't support this decision by me, but I really don't care. Maybe someday it might be in my budget to purchase a 1000+ dog, but really-I don't see the need. My two babies are awesome. I can't imagine my life w/out them, even if they are not quite "standard".


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## ourdonbi (Feb 25, 2006)

i like this topic, good idea~


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## Harley & Dakotas Mum (Jun 11, 2005)

I'd go back to Dakota's breeder without a second thought.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> I got my pups from a hobby/backyard breeder who is trying to improve her lines and may someday be into showing...if I add another pup to my family, I will most likely return to her. Most won't support this decision by me, but I really don't care. Maybe someday it might be in my budget to purchase a 1000+ dog, but really-I don't see the need. My two babies are awesome. I can't imagine my life w/out them, even if they are not quite "standard".[/B]


Well, sheesh, why should you fix it if it isn't broken? That would be silly! Your babies (fluffed and human) are beautiful!


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## dolcevita (Aug 3, 2005)

> My last dog came from a show breeder in Italy. I don't need anymore, but if I did, I have my eye on another European breeder.[/B]


I'm just curious--why would you purchase a pup from a European breeder? Is there anything better about them, or do they have characteristics that you can't find here? 

The more I learn, the more I would want to buy my next puppy from a show breeder. Dolce was from Divine, and I would buy another from them or another well-known show breeder. I feel that if a breeder isn't showing, how do you know that their dogs meet the breed standard, or that they're trying to better the breed? I know it's possible to get excellent dogs from non-show breeders, but it seems like a little more of a gamble to me.


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## snowballsmom (Mar 3, 2006)

I would definately get another maltese through rescue. I found Snowball on petfinder.com and he is the best little buddy in the world. In fact, I am trying to convince my hubby that Snowball needs a playmate!









Bev & Snowball


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> QUOTE





> My last dog came from a show breeder in Italy. I don't need anymore, but if I did, I have my eye on another European breeder.[/B]


I'm just curious--why would you purchase a pup from a European breeder? Is there anything better about them, or do they have characteristics that you can't find here? 

The more I learn, the more I would want to buy my next puppy from a show breeder. Dolce was from Divine, and I would buy another from them or another well-known show breeder. I feel that if a breeder isn't showing, how do you know that their dogs meet the breed standard, or that they're trying to better the breed? I know it's possible to get excellent dogs from non-show breeders, but it seems like a little more of a gamble to me.
[/B][/QUOTE]


When my friend and I purchased Andy (the boy in my avitar) it was after much research, as well as her having had experience showing a grandson from Andy's sire. In addition to great American lines, he possesses some of the best of the European ones also. With him, we just combined the best of two worlds. It wasn't about saving money, as he cost as much as one from a top breeder here. He also has a full sibling who did well at Crufts in his first year there, and another who is doing well in Germany. His sire has earned championships in a number of countries, and was #3 here in the US. His mom is an American and Italian champ. His mom's sister has a string of championships in another country, and his maternal grandmoter is the foundation bitch for the kennel he came from, and she has produced a good number of champions (including one who was here for his AKC title). He came to us in excellent shape--spoiled rotten too. He completed his championship with five majors in six shows at barely eleven months of age. My friend (and his co-owner) started breeding him sooner than I did, and he now has a fair number (percentage wise) of his offspring starting to show. His pups are as good, if not better than he is. 
I don't need any more dogs, as I am working hard to get those from my own breeding into the ring--one is an Andy son. But, since purchasing him, I've become interested in the lines there, as well as some of the breeders/handlers. I am watching one breeder/handler who has some impressive dogs/wins, and I do have the opportunity to purchase one from that person in the future, if I choose. I have a good mixture of many of the top American lines in the dogs I have now. It is just fun to add a new mix.


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## cindy6755 (Mar 20, 2005)

I got Mickey from a friend who didn't want him anymore, Sweetpea I consider a rescue, because she was so neglected and abused when the lady approached me in petsmart, Buster came from a backyard breeder. My next maltese will come from Chalet or Ta-Lin, or Angel maltese. Saving my pennies now!!

Cindy


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

Boo was born to a hobbie breeder. I'd just have him cloned if I could







. I'd consider a rescue next.


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## Tanner's Mom (May 27, 2005)

I found Tanner in a classified ad, thought AKC registration meant something--imagine my surprise! He has liver problems (or something) and I have spent a small fortune having tests/surgery/etc. done. I was lucky to find SM when I was researching his health issues, and I am just amazed at how very little I knew when I got him. Please don't misunderstand me, he is a wonderful little boy and I love him more than I thought possible (right now he's asleep under my credenza on one of Stacey's beds). But the next time I get a baby, I'm going straight to reputable breeders. Yes, we do live and learn. 

I take Tanner with me to a lot of stores, and invariably I hear "Oh, he's so cute, where did you get him." Well that's my cue to tell them what I did wrong in buying him, to never ever buy a puppy from the newspaper and that AKC registration has nothing to do with quality. People just don't know, I didn't, so I've made it my mission in life to tell 'em! OK I'll climb down off my soapbox (for a while).


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> I found Tanner in a classified ad, thought AKC registration meant something--imagine my surprise! He has liver problems (or something) and I have spent a small fortune having tests/surgery/etc. done. I was lucky to find SM when I was researching his health issues, and I am just amazed at how very little I knew when I got him. Please don't misunderstand me, he is a wonderful little boy and I love him more than I thought possible (right now he's asleep under my credenza on one of Stacey's beds). But the next time I get a baby, I'm going straight to reputable breeders. Yes, we do live and learn.
> 
> I take Tanner with me to a lot of stores, and invariably I hear "Oh, he's so cute, where did you get him." Well that's my cue to tell them what I did wrong in buying him, to never ever buy a puppy from the newspaper and that AKC registration has nothing to do with quality. People just don't know, I didn't, so I've made it my mission in life to tell 'em! OK I'll climb down off my soapbox (for a while).[/B]


Thank you for your story! I know there are many more people with stories just like yours, and maybe if they are all collected in one place, the next time a member asks where she should look for a dog, he/she can see that it is not just a select few being snobby and saying that buying from a show breeder is important! I wonder if this poll could be pinned.


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## nikkivong (Aug 25, 2006)

i got otis from a backyard breeder even when i knew it wasnt right, i wanted a puppy sooooo bad and couldnt afford to get one that was 1000+. I love otis to death and since getting him, i've realized how bad other dogs have it out there since i know how great otis has it and it makes me sad so i know for sure that if i were to get another dog, it would definitely be a rescue because every dog deserves to be treated like otis ...


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

Hi Faye,

Here is a question for you. I understand that the European and North American standards are slightly different for Maltese. Have you experienced any challenges with judges while showing an European Maltese? From what I see, many European breeders are incorporating American lines into their programs so maybe the differences in the maltese isn't so great?


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

It's so nice see so many would go to rescue


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## Carole (Nov 1, 2005)

> hmm i dont know if Divine is on the ama list, but i would imagine they are so i put that one for where i got jett from. kylee is from a puppymill but i couldnt vote 2 times.... just as hillary&lola said- you live and learn![/B]



Yes, Divine is on the AMA list.









I would go back to Divine







in a heartbeat! If Angie and Larry were no long breeding Maltese at that time... I would likely reach out to Rhapsody, MaltaAngels, Angel, Pashes, Chrisman, Ta-Jon, Richilieu, or Marcris. My next Maltese most probably would be a retired....like me.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

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That's one option we forgot on this poll - adopting a retiree.

That's what I'll probably do when that awful day comes when I lose my precious Lady. I haven't had a puppy or a kitten in 25 years. There are just so many wonderful adult animals out there in need of a new home for whatever reason.

I can't think of anything more rewarding than adopting a Maltese who has "worked" its entire life and spoiling it rotten!


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## sweetbabybe (Sep 24, 2006)

There are very few Maltese breeders in BC, Canada (reputable or otherwise). I got my Chloe locally from a backyard breeder. It was an accidental impregnation and so the girl didn't know anything about breeding. Although both of the Maltese parents are healthy and beautiful, I am terrified that Chloe will develop some congenital problems that a reputable breeder would have known to test for. I love my Chloe so much, it would break my heart if she died young.







I can't stand the worry. Next time I'm going to buy from a reputable breeder, even if I have to cross the country to get her.


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## mom2bijou (Oct 19, 2006)

I must say that this forum has helped me find where to buy my new puppy. My beloved Bijou came to me 14 years ago as a gift. He was from a pet store. Since he passed I started looking into where to get my puppy from. I learned about the AMA and talked to some helpful people there. The AMA and this forum is how I decided on Crisman maltese. My puppy comes home in 2 weeks. From reading on here, I found he is a reputable breeder w/an oustanding reputation. So I reached out to him and was able to locate the perfect pup. I couldn't have made this decision w/out researching from this forum...so thanks!


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

Some of the big breeders have been mentioned, but I would also like to encourage anyone looking for a maltese to remember the smaller show breeders. They might not have the big name and reputation, but they are out there at the shows and doing a really fine job of establishing their lines and breeding programs. They tend to have only a litter or two each year and those pups get lots of attention. There are too many to list but Sadie (and Sassy) came from one such breeder and I have the utmost respect for those folks. Sometimes (but not always) their prices are a little to alot less than the better known breeders.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

> Some of the big breeders have been mentioned, but I would also like to encourage anyone looking for a maltese to remember the smaller show breeders. They might not have the big name and reputation, but they are out there at the shows and doing a really fine job of establishing their lines and breeding programs. They tend to have only a litter or two each year and those pups get lots of attention. There are too many to list but Sadie (and Sassy) came from one such breeder and I have the utmost respect for those folks. Sometimes (but not always) their prices are a little to alot less than the better known breeders.[/B]



I couldn't agree more!! One of the reasons why big name breeders are big name breeders is because they breed more and consequently have more to show. They also have more to sell. This is not a bad thing by any means because they are producing sound dogs. If you look at the pedigrees behind many of the smaller show breeders' dogs you will find many of the same lines as those of the bigger name breeders. And really, pedigrees are of much greater value to the person buying a dog for breeding than for someone looking for a nice healthy pet. For someone looking for a show dog with the hope that it will become part of their breeding program the pedigree is very important to study ... maybe that someone is looking to improve their fronts, rears or tailsets, maybe they are looking for a prettier head, maybe a better bite or silkier coat. For someone looking for a pet I feel that the click between the breeder and the buyer is far more important than the pedigree. You will own your dog for many many years and should get a sense that your breeder will have a continuing interest in the health and well-being of your dog and be available to answer questions from time to time.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> Hi Faye,
> 
> Here is a question for you. I understand that the European and North American standards are slightly different for Maltese. Have you experienced any challenges with judges while showing an European Maltese? From what I see, many European breeders are incorporating American lines into their programs so maybe the differences in the maltese isn't so great?[/B]



Well, Diamond is all European lines, and he finished his AKC title in five shows with four majors (two five point and two four point ones). Dian just finished another boy at nine months that she obtained from Europe, and she was approached by a judge who tried to buy him to use as a special. Another judge told her that he couldn't keep his eyes off him. Sandstone has a very nice male from Europe that I plan to breed to, and he finished his AKC title quickly. I know there are exceptions, and I've watched some being shown from some of the European lines that have weak fronts, as well as a coat texture that I would not want. I would not buy from the lines where the larger dogs are prominent, as I want to keep on my planned program. I've only been breeding Maltese for five years, but I have a mentor who has been at it more than twice that long. We have not encountered the health issues that some breeders have, and I personally am a believer that it is because we do not use such a tight gene pool. As I said, I have a good mixture of the top lines from the US already in my dogs.


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## NewMom328 (Apr 15, 2005)

> I must say that this forum has helped me find where to buy my new puppy. My beloved Bijou came to me 14 years ago as a gift. He was from a pet store. Since he passed I started looking into where to get my puppy from. I learned about the AMA and talked to some helpful people there. The AMA and this forum is how I decided on Crisman maltese. My puppy comes home in 2 weeks. From reading on here, I found he is a reputable breeder w/an oustanding reputation. So I reached out to him and was able to locate the perfect pup. I couldn't have made this decision w/out researching from this forum...so thanks![/B]



Oh Crisman is a great breeder!! You must get some pics of your new baby on this forum!! Congratulations on ur new addition by the way!


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## Lizzie (Jan 26, 2006)

Riley was given to me for Christmas by my husband who didn't do the research, nor read the research I had saved on the computer before buying him from a friend of his sister. A backyard breeder for sure. Riley is far from show quality but he's the best pet for this family, he fits in almost too well, sometimes he acts exactly like my sons did when they were little boys.

I do hope to get another maltese. I know it's not nice but I'd just love to have a maltese with a nice coat and who isn't quite so large. I don't care if I get a puppy, but I would like to have a younger dog basically because I'm still hurting over losing two older dogs within 3 months of each other and I'm not ready to take on losing a family member.

I quietly hope that when I can afford another, Faye will be looking for a good forever home for one of hers, since I know she loves them like family members and any maltese coming to my house will be treated the same.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

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Oh that is such a good point! The breeder/buyer relationship shouldn't end once the dog has arrived in their new home. It's also nice when the breeder knows the answers to the questions you find yourself asking, not something that every hobby breeder is able to do. The breeder I got my Lucy from has been wonderful. I think she can be considered a small scale show breeder but she's had to put up with me asking OMG IS THIS NORMAL? Then me telling her over and over how much I love this dog and how much I've fallen in love with this breed.

And now? 

She has had to put up with me wanting to show Lucy and all of my millions of questions regarding that! She's been great and did the right thing by making sure that I was truly serious about showing before giving the ok, since I had bought her as a pet. Now there is just the matter of her coat...


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## mom2bijou (Oct 19, 2006)

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THanks kylees mom...he comes home around 11/18...so i'll post pics then..i promise )


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## Morkie4 (Oct 13, 2006)

> I can complicate your poll. My last dog came from a show breeder in Italy. I don't need anymore, but if I did, I have my eye on another European breeder.[/B]


It is very obvious from the pic of your baby why you would go to another European Breeder......just beautiful and she looks like she knows it...........not snobby..........just very proud!


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## NONNY (May 21, 2006)

I had to reply to "other"







I never actually planned on getting Chipper







I was searching around on the net one evening and happened across some cuuuute puppies for sale within driving distance. I forwarded the pics of the cuuuuuuute puppies to my daughter. She called the breeder and we went to LOOK at the puppies....LOOK....only LOOK at the puppies....and we lost all our good sense. Our minds were possessed. Something came over us and before we knew what had happened we were home and we had 2 tiny little puppies....Chipper and Bunny.







I knew better. I had rescued Izzy from a horrible breeder







but I swear my mind was possessed







when I brought home those tiny little puppies.







And I know I would do the same thing again.....so










I NEVER look at puppies for sale now







because it might just happen again!







But I did see that rescue last week and I'm still thinking about him







.....poor little Scooter needs a home


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## hillary&lola (Apr 4, 2006)

> I got Mickey from a friend who didn't want him anymore, Sweetpea I consider a rescue, because she was so neglected and abused when the lady approached me in petsmart, Buster came from a backyard breeder. My next maltese will come from Chalet or Ta-Lin, or Angel maltese. Saving my pennies now!!
> 
> Cindy[/B]


just want to say that i think your babies are DARLING! they all have such cute unique expressions on their faces.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> I had to reply to "other"
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HAHA! I can so see that happening, LOL! I'd probably have come home with them too. I should have added 'succombing to impulse' as one of the choice,


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## Littlemans Mom (Apr 6, 2005)

I would first try locally for one of the show breeders here in CT. and if I couldn't find one I would go to the ones Carol had mentioned. I am glad that this poll shows that people are learning about puppymills and not going to pet stores







I am wondering if the 1 that would buy from a pet store is new and needs more info on puppy mills? If so I urge the person to go to the Breeders section here on SM and follow the links to posts about them and there are some links that show just what those poor babies and their Mothers go through







Info can also be found easily by doing a search on the net for puppymills. Please anyone, before buying from a pet store look at those pictures of the poor babies (all breeds) and how they are treated. 



Edited to add: I also wanted to add that I had no idea about puppymills and pet stores until I joined here. Our first dog came from the local Humane Society and the next two from a pet store







These were not Maltese, in fact they were all fairly large dogs, it wasn't until I went looking for a Maltese that I began to realize what puppymills were all about. That is one of the reasons I want to help pass on the valuable info I have learned, so as to help someone else out


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Not all show breeders are members of the AMA. There are some great breeders who are not members.

I just wanted to throw that in there.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

> Well, Diamond is all European lines, and he finished his AKC title in five shows with four majors (two five point and two four point ones). Dian just finished another boy at nine months that she obtained from Europe, and she was approached by a judge who tried to buy him to use as a special. Another judge told her that he couldn't keep his eyes off him. Sandstone has a very nice male from Europe that I plan to breed to, and he finished his AKC title quickly. I know there are exceptions, and I've watched some being shown from some of the European lines that have weak fronts, as well as a coat texture that I would not want. I would not buy from the lines where the larger dogs are prominent, as I want to keep on my planned program. I've only been breeding Maltese for five years, but I have a mentor who has been at it more than twice that long. We have not encountered the health issues that some breeders have, and I personally am a believer that it is because we do not use such a tight gene pool. As I said, I have a good mixture of the top lines from the US already in my dogs.[/B]


Thank you so much for sharing the information. It sounds like it doesn't matter where you get your dog from as long as you do your research and you know what you are doing


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## cindy6755 (Mar 20, 2005)

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Thank you, Hillary, Lola is adorable also

Cindy


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> I found Tanner in a classified ad, thought AKC registration meant something--imagine my surprise! He has liver problems (or something) and I have spent a small fortune having tests/surgery/etc. done. I was lucky to find SM when I was researching his health issues, and I am just amazed at how very little I knew when I got him. Please don't misunderstand me, he is a wonderful little boy and I love him more than I thought possible (right now he's asleep under my credenza on one of Stacey's beds). But the next time I get a baby, I'm going straight to reputable breeders. Yes, we do live and learn.
> 
> I take Tanner with me to a lot of stores, and invariably I hear "Oh, he's so cute, where did you get him." Well that's my cue to tell them what I did wrong in buying him, to never ever buy a puppy from the newspaper and that AKC registration has nothing to do with quality. People just don't know, I didn't, so I've made it my mission in life to tell 'em! OK I'll climb down off my soapbox (for a while).[/B]


i'm in the same boat. i bought massimo from a byb. i knew at the time not to buy from petstores, but i didn’t know what constituted a good breeder. massimo is my heart, he's absolutely perfect in so many ways but he has a health issue. having epilepsy, i have to care for him while he has seizures and it totally destroys me... i actually get physically ill. in fact, he had 2 more last night... so, today i'm not feeling so well. i have a migraine and i'm just drained. and back to the vet we go for more testing. i've spent a small fortune on him so far. and, with epilepsy being a chronic progressive illness, i'll continue to pay for vet care. not that money’s an issue for me, i'm just stating the facts. he wasn't a "cheap" dog to begin with. the "breeder" sold the males for $1200 and females for $1500. the second litter the males went for $1500 and the females for $2000. and all of her dogs sold. more than the monetary aspect....it's just a whole lot of heartache for me. i look into massimo's eyes and i just don't understand why someone so incredibly sweet has to go through what he does.







he doesn't deserve it.
personally, i will go directly to a reputable breeder for my next puppy. i would even consider a retiree. 
i don't even think i could consider a rescue... i know how horrible that sounds...believe me.







but with rescues, you never know what kind of health problems may pop up and i just couldn't handle another chronically ill dog.


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## Littlemans Mom (Apr 6, 2005)

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Carrie I feel so bad about what Massimo and you have been going through. He is so precious







I just wanted to give you both a big














and pray that things ease up for you both


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I know how you feel, Carrie. I had that little rescue for seven months that was very ill. It does make you ill too to watch.







My heart goes out to you.


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## mmo (Sep 4, 2004)

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Carrie, i am so very sorry your little angel has to endure that and my heart goes to you too because i know i would go crazy if i see mine suffering


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## Jacki (Jul 13, 2006)

My "other" answer on where my last Malt came from is because I don't have one yet ... and part of that is due to finding this site while I was doing my research, because if I hadn't I would almost certainly have gone to a byb long ago. While I think all animals are precious and deserve love, now that I know what I do, I would only look for a Malt (*am* looking







) from a responsible breeder. 

This is a good thread -- hopefully someone coming here for advice will be able to learn from the experiences of members here and be able to make a more informed decision.


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## thelittlepet (Apr 18, 2006)

My first malt came from a small show breeder that came through a referrel that was a referral from the AMA. She is not an AMA member but shows on a limited scale. However, my relationship with her was that strictly of $$ changing hands for a product so I would not and did not go back to her. 

My second two malts came from an AMA breeder that another breeder sent me to because she did not have pups. She warned me that she would be picky but I knew that would not be a problem for us. She has shown in the past but not any in the past two 18 months or so. We keep up with her and she keeps up with the devolpment of the pups. She wants to know how they are doing. This was not strictly $$ for them and we were able to meet all of the dogs and see the litter and it felt less like a buisness transaction and more like what it is to me, the addition to our family. So I would go back to her again for another pup if we were looking.
Aimee


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## Lil Boo Boo (Jul 22, 2006)

I want one from Happy B







Her babies are breath taking


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## Luvmalts<3 (Feb 12, 2006)

Pixie (my first malt) came from Villa Maresesca, which I think is on the AMA list? If I was to get another I'd either go back to Villa or go to Challet de maltese, cause I just love the malts I've seen from there.


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## TheButtercup (Mar 3, 2005)

the buttercup is from humble beginnings. knowing now where i missed on getting information... i can't say i would do much different. i wish i could. i wish i could say the politically correct "i'm definitely getting from a top reputable breeder!" but i just cant. it will likely never be in my budget to afford such things. i'm super fortunate to be aware and graced with a buttercup of so-far-so-good health. if there was a way to ensure i could get another happy-go-lucky buttercup, i'd do whatever i could, even if it meant going back to the same place. (sorry again) but since no one can guarantee that... i may stick with rescue. 

we adopted kids need to stick together







hehe

ann marie and the "i got me some iffy pigment, some nappy wavy hair, a loooong body, a non-smooshy nose, and a helluva underbite....oh yeah, dont forget my tubbybutt! but my momster loves me just the way i am and couldnt love any show dog any more than she loves ME!" buttercup, who simply has no idea just how much she is loved.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> the buttercup is from humble beginnings. knowing now where i missed on getting information... i can't say i would do much different. i wish i could. i wish i could say the politically correct "i'm definitely getting from a top reputable breeder!" but i just cant. it will likely never be in my budget to afford such things. i'm super fortunate to be aware and graced with a buttercup of so-far-so-good health. if there was a way to ensure i could get another happy-go-lucky buttercup, i'd do whatever i could, even if it meant going back to the same place. (sorry again) but since no one can guarantee that... i may stick with rescue.
> 
> we adopted kids need to stick together
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