# The Reason's You do not breed your PET



## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

As most of you know I am trying to get a few dogs in the ring this year. I have 3 possibly 4 already on their way. I was in high hopes that the outcome from this breeding would give me at least one more baby. I want to be at the nationals with a home bred baby so bad this year in September. Anyway here is the story of last night and today..........

My girl went into labor 6 days early. They are normally OK if they deliver within 5 days of due date. The first delivery delivered two pups in one sack. One was the size of my pinkie. She was not viable. The other was so premature she had hardly no hair. She was gasping for breathe and we fought to get her functioning for well over 3 hours. Finally she seemed to be getting better after mom was done. Please know that during the time of the rest of the birthing my mother was constantly massaging and heating her to keep her going. When she would lay her down she would just get still. 

The second delivery seemed to be fine except not as much hair as normal. But healthy otherwise. 

The the third delivery came. The baby had to of been in the same horn (birthing canal) as the first two that were in the sack together. And with mom delivering the first two must have somehow gotten the cord around his neck. He was dead upon arrival. I worked on the little guy for what seemed like forever. But every time that I would check to see if he was coming around a little, the site was something I will never forget. EVERY TIME I looked he would be on his back with his little paws sticking up and bent at the knees just like we all see our Malts do when sleeping on their backs. I saw this the last time and then said he is at piece I have to let him go. I cried and Rhonda came over and said mom let me try. She has never tried to revive one and when it did not work I will never forget the sadness on her face, and the words she said. Which were "mom now I know why you fight so hard trying bring them back. When I would look down at him he looked like he was sleeping not dead. Now I understand mom." All along crying with me. 

The little girl that was in the sac with the other baby did not make it. She died during the night. 

The little boy that seemed to be fine is fighting for his life and if he makes lives it will be by the grace of God. He is very week and when he tries to suckle his little tongue sticks to the roof of his mouth. I have checked the roof of his mouth good and he does not have cleft pallette. 

I had to take a nap earlier and when I woke up to go and check on him he was almost gone. So I grabbed him up and tried to put him on Jacki. (thank God she has babies because his mom's milk is not coming in yet.) But he can not grasp on and pull the milk. After trying to get him to suckle the baby died. He turned blue and got stiff. He was gone. But God is good and he brought him back from the bridge. 

So now I am on a hourly feeding schedule plus he gets his liver remedy ever two hours. The liver remedy I am not sure why it works but I am guessing it is like giving the pups a blood transfusion. 

Please pray for this little Miracle baby. I dont think I will be albe to handle if we loose all of them. 

I have been breeding for about 4 1/2 years now and have NEVER experiance anything that is happening. From the first having two puppies in one sac and one not being quite formed and so tiny. To having a cord wrapped around one's neck and killing it. To having one die just for God to say no you are going back. 


So if anyone on this board or anyone that may come across this story thinks about breeding their dogs just so they can have more Maltese or just for fun, please think of the horror that this mom and myself are going through. It is not fun. And not anything to be taken lightly. 

Thank you for reading and Please remember to Pray For Miracle. (that is his name)


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

rayer: rayer: :grouphug:

I sure hope Miracle makes it. I'm sorry you are going through this.


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## Krystal (Feb 3, 2007)

rayer: rayer: rayer:


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## angel's mom (Feb 14, 2007)

Awwww, Becky, i'm sorry to hear that you lost the little girl too. I'll be praying for the little boy. {{{HUGS}}}


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## llf060787 (Nov 19, 2007)

So sorry to hear about the babies. Both Myself and my Bianca will be praying for Miracle. He sounds like a little fighter. rayer: rayer: rayer:


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

I'm so sorry. :smcry: Prayers for little Miracle. rayer: rayer: rayer: rayer: rayer:


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## Suz & the Fluffs (Mar 11, 2006)

:shocked: Oh no Becky! I am soooo sorry this has happened. I don't know what to say hun.... If you need someone to talk to I'm on yahoo and will be for most of the day. :grouphug:


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## ShilohsMom (Jun 25, 2007)

How devastating..I am so sorry :smcry:


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## lillady (Jan 25, 2007)

:smcry: I'm sorry hon-I'll pray really hard rayer: rayer:


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## gatiger40 (Jun 7, 2007)

I'm so sorry Becky. rayer: that little miracle lives up to his name. rayer: :grouphug: 

Steph


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## gibbert (Jan 13, 2005)

:smcry: I am praying for little Miracle.


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## kathym (Aug 5, 2006)

:smcry: I AM SO SORRY 
I WILL SAY A SPECIAL PRAYER FOR BABY MIRACLE rayer:


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

Thank you everyone. I just dont know. He has gone stiff and turned purple again since my last post. I am in hopes that the Liver Remedy will kick in and he will take a turn for the best. 

Thank you again for all the prayers and support for Little Miracle.


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

:new_shocked: :smcry: rayer: rayer: rayer:


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

oh how sad!

Who is mommy? I didn't even know you were expecting anymore litters any time soon! This scares me so much because I know exactly how hard it is to go through the whole whelping experience and then have something like that happen.

Please keep us updated!


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## Tinkerbell (Apr 10, 2007)

So sorry to hear of your loss. 

We will be praying for a miracle for your little miracle!

Cheri & Tiki


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## MaxxandSophia'sMommy (Jan 17, 2008)

Romans 8:28

"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose."

Praying for you and the sweet baby and mommy


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## louiseelizabeth (Jan 7, 2008)

rayer: i pray for our little miracle x


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## Poppy's mommy (Dec 21, 2007)

*I am so sorry to hear this about all of those precious babies, I really hope Miracle pushes his way through and live up to his name. This is really sad, we will keep him in our prayers.*


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

Oh Becky... I am so sorry that you are having to go through this... :grouphug:


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Saying prayers for Baby Miracle. rayer: :grouphug:


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

Once again I want to thank everyone for their prayers and support. 

*Update*

After the first two episodes of Miracle going stiff after feeding him I knew there was something else going on. As I stated before I have never dealt with this type of situation so I did not know what was going on. Thank goodness for friends that do know what to do. 

I have been in contact with a breeder friend all day through email about what was going on. When I had monster and hand raised him the vet was no good so I really knew that they would say what they said last time. So I did not rush him to the vet. Anyway this friend knew something that I did not. That he had gotten dehydrated. Luckily my vet knows me well enough to keep me well supplied and I had IV fluids here. So I gave fluids him after the last episode. Then about 1 hr 45 min later I gave him some more. In between he has gotten his Liver Juice. 

Well I just got through feeding him a little (not a lot) and he did not go stiff. He was suckling like never before. So maybe we are on a uphill. We still have such a long way to go. But with God, Miracles will to live and my will to help him he will make it. 

So this update is a good one I am a little excited trying to keep myself from getting overly excited. 

I almost forgot in the mist of all of this I have made mom up some mothers pudding in hopes it will bring her milk on down. So hopefully in a couple of days mom's milk will be in and he will be strong enough to nurse. 

Thank you all again for all of the prayers and support for this little Miracle of Gods.


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## revakb2 (Sep 8, 2006)

Becky,

I am so sad for the loss of the puppies that did not make it. I will be praying like crazy for little Miracle. If anyone can pull him through, I know you can. Please keep us updated. I wish I were closer and able to help you physically. I know how draining and time consuming trying to pull this guy through will be. Please know we are all thinking of you and Miracle.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Praying for you and Miracle, Becky.


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

I'm so sorry about the pups that didn't make it... very sad! Will be keeping little miracle in my prayers that he pulls thru nicely and grows to be a very healthy pup! (I assume Mom is doing good!?)


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

> I'm so sorry about the pups that didn't make it... very sad! Will be keeping little miracle in my prayers that he pulls thru nicely and grows to be a very healthy pup! (I assume Mom is doing good!?)[/B]


Yes mom is actually doing great. I had to make her go out to potty just a bit ago. She is cleaning him and doing all she can. When we thought he had died the first time it broke hers and my heart. She does not seem to mind if I mess with him in their room but when we took him out thinking he was dead she was running all over the house crying. It was heart breaking to say the least. But once she got him back with her she has been fine. 

Thank you for checking on her also and praying for us all. 

Thank you all for the prayers!!


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

Reading your posts and having experienced what we did, it all makes me realize even more just how special and complex life is. 

Our little Snowy was so protective of the babies but at the same time, she was fully aware that we were trying to help her. To this day we still believe that when she gets extremely affectionate with us (which she does all the time), she is telling us thank you for your help. I know that sounds corny and I can not adequately explain it, but I am CERTAIN they know.


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## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

I am so sorry for your loss and the trying time you are going through now with the last little one, Miracle. 

I have a question, though. Forgive me for not having been here long enough to know who everyone is and who has what pups, but you started this thread with the title "Reasons you do not breed your pet". And yet you say that you have 3 or 4 that you expect to make it to the ring for showing this year. Are you breeding a pet quality and hoping for show dogs? Or are you just warning pet quality dog owners from breeding "for fun" and/or profit?

Just curious. I have always had pet quality dogs and had them neutered. I have never had any desire to show or to go through the dangers of breeding/whelping/reproducing. I have no clue about it! And love my dogs too much to risk it.

Cyndi


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

rayer: rayer: rayer:


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

> I am so sorry for your loss and the trying time you are going through now with the last little one, Miracle.
> 
> I have a question, though. Forgive me for not having been here long enough to know who everyone is and who has what pups, but you started this thread with the title "Reasons you do not breed your pet". And yet you say that you have 3 or 4 that you expect to make it to the ring for showing this year. Are you breeding a pet quality and hoping for show dogs? Or are you just warning pet quality dog owners from breeding "for fun" and/or profit?
> 
> ...


Cindi what a wonderful question. When we breed for show quality in the majority we only get one out of a litter of three that are show quality. I have raised my dogs for this purpose. Are they my pets? Yes but they are good representatives of the breed. I am very proud of my program for this reason. I have Skye and Maggie which most definitely will be in the ring this summer and then two others that we are also are in great hopes that they make it. When you are watching for show quality you have so many things to watch. Like the bite, how the feet set when you stack them, their coat, tail set and so on. So this is the reason I made the topic the way I did. I have helped quite a few people after the fact of "breeding their pet" just for pups or many other reasons. So I have made this topic in hopes that it may catch some one's eye down the line and keep them for breeding other than to improve the breed.


*UPDATE*

Miracle is crying.... A huge sign of improvement. :chili: :chili: :chili: :chili: :chili: :chili: :chili:


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## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

I really appreciate you responding to my direct questions. As i said, I have never been interested in showing or breeding, but am VERY interested in those that do, because I want to make sure our breed is improved upon rather than increasing the bad qualities of the breed. So Yay! for you!  And so many others like you!  And even for those like me that buy Pet quality pups from great breeders and have them neutered. We all need to do what is needed to increase the quality of the breed, not dilute it with DNA that is substandard (although, how could I EVER call my baby Midis sub-standard? He is simply "not show quality". 

I am praying that Miracle is a miracle. 

*hugs*
Cyndi


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## mommabrey (Oct 19, 2007)

WOW!!

What a heart wrenching thread! :grouphug: 

I hope and pray that Miracle continues to improve and is completely healthy rayer:


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## fredasher (Dec 8, 2007)

And prayers from me, too! rayer: rayer: rayer: What a story. I am sorry to hear about your loss, but hearing that Miracle is crying is a good sign. I will continue to keep you, Miracle and 'little' mommy in my prayers. rayer: 

Sherry


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## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

Please: Just keep us updated. We are all (obviously!) very concerned and upset.

Big Hugs:*:
Cyndi


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

> Please: Just keep us updated. We are all (obviously!) very concerned and upset.
> 
> Big Hugs:*:
> Cyndi[/B]


Yes I will be sure to do that. He is still not going stiff when I feed him so that is a huge plus. I was in hopes that he would not need any more fluids but after his last time of giving the liver remedy I did the tent test to see and he is still dehydrated somewhat. Maybe this is the last time. But if not I will continue to do what I am doing. His mom is taking to him more now I have noticed. She is stimulating him more with cleaning and that is a plus also. Before she would just lay close. I had thought she was cleaning him but not until the last few hours. Maybe she is realizing he is getting stronger now and not dying. 

Thank you again everyone for caring and the prayers going up for this little guy.


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## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

Please, let me/us know. Just email me. 

*hugs*
Cyndi


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## Krystal (Feb 3, 2007)

:grouphug: What a wonderful update! :grouphug:


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

> :grouphug: What a wonderful update! :grouphug:[/B]


Thank you this one is even better.

I had to give Miracle some more fluids because he was still tenting. After I gave him his fluids I waited about 20 minutes and gave him his formula. He took 2CC's. OMG that is a huge increase. He has only been taking one dropper or possibly two all day and now he is up to 2 CC's. I am very excited with the progress. He even burped when I tried to burp him. 

I just heard him fussing on the monitor again and that is such a welcome sound to my ears. 

I have put one of the other pups on mom to help to stimulate her milk to come in and when I got through feeding him I checked her and it is also coming in.

It seems at this time all the prayers are working. GOD IS GOOD and so are so many of you on this forum. 

Thank you from the bottom of my and Miracles hearts!!!!!!!!!


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## Carla (Aug 30, 2005)

Becky, I am sorry you lost the other pups, but I'm amazed at how well little Miracle is doing. You should be commended for all time, effort, and love you are giving him. I have no doubt that his survival is because of the wonderful care you are giving him. The miracle is you giving Miracle life. :aktion033: 

Carla & Shotzi


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

*UPDATE*

Well Miracle seems to be getting stronger but still not strong enough to latch on. When I was feeding him with the dropper her was aspirating the milk up his nose and possibly into his lungs. Which could cause phenomena. So I have had to move to drastic measures. 

I just tube fed him. I have never done this before but after Monster I stocked up on the supplies. Here is a link to go and see exactly what I am talking about if you would like..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIKWr7yRU2g
And to be honest with all of you I am still trembling from having to do it. I sure hope it gets easier with each feeding. 

I was able to give him 3cc of formula this way. I am in hopes that I will not have to administer the SQ Fluids any longer. He does not seem to be tenting. So hopefully not. 

It has been a long night and going to be a longer day tomorrow. But Rhonda will be home so she can make sure I wake up once I do lay down. 

When I am working with him I am catching myself calling him bubba and handsome. Those were Kenny's nick names....LOLOL So maybe my angel in heaven is watching down over us and helping me to do things the right way. 

Please continue to pray for the baby. I will be fine if I can ever get over these first happening hurdles. I have had more first with this delivery than ever!!


Thank you all for praying for him and me last night. Please keep the prayers coming. We still have a long way to get to the top of the mountain where he is out of the woods.


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## Madison's Mom (Dec 26, 2007)

Oh my! I'll be keeping your little Miracle boy in my prayers and I'll also pray for strength for you as you care for him.
rayer:


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Just checking in for an update, and I'm so glad to hear the little guy is still with us.

I hope and pray he continues to improve. He really will be your miracle baby.


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## Morkie4 (Oct 13, 2006)

Hope little Miracle is dong better today. Hang tuff! I know this has been hard on you and it is very taxing on the emotions as well as the physical exhaustion that comes with a pup in need of special care...............just know that a lot are pulling for you and Miracle.


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## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

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Glad to hear Miracle is doing better. That's great news. I'm also glad Mom is doing okay. Sounds like it was an awful experience for all of you.

I haven't heard anything about your dogs being shown, Becky. Maybe I've missed it, as it is hard to keep up. Cyndi asked a great question about breeding the pet quality dogs hoping for a show quality. I was just browsing your website and looking at the pedigrees of your sires and dams. It does sort of look like that could be the case from what I saw of your pedigrees. One out of 3 of show quality sounds like pretty high odds, even for the top tier breeders who definitely are using their Champions for breeding, or they wouldn't have so many pets for sale. That's just my guess, as I don't know for sure. Just trying to get educated a bit more here. How old are Skye and Maggie? I look forward to seeing your dogs being shown and one of them winning a Championship. Please be sure to share with us. It's always fun to see SM members' dogs being shown. :aktion033:


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## cknight (Jan 8, 2008)

he is truely blessed to have you looking over him. Keep the faith and God will see you thru this.

God is good....All the time.


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## schatzi's mom (May 13, 2007)

I hope little miracle continues to do better. I'll be praying for all of you. :grouphug: (And I hope you're able to get som sleep)


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## hambys97 (Feb 25, 2005)

I have been reading this thread, and simply didn't know what to add. It is heartwrenching for me to be reading what you are going through. I can't imagine actually being the one to do it. You are an amazing person to be devoting so much love, time, and attention to what I am sure that so many BYB's would simply classify as a "lost cause." Therefore, I applaud you for what you are doing. 
I am praying for miracle, and I continue to hope that he does gain strength. Please keep us updated as things progress.


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

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Thank you for the well wishes Mary Ann. 

To answer your questions. NO my dogs that I have in my program so far have not been shown but have been accessed by a very experienced show breeder and got good quality within standard in her opinion. So as for the question are they pet quality no they are not. As most everyone knows, yourself included I am sure, I started off on the wrong foot. Not showing my dogs. As many breeders have and now are in good standings as far as having show champions. I suggest that you go back and look through my post and you will see the explination several times. I have never tried to hide anything from anyone but always been straight forward. Something that is hard to come by these days is someone that does not try to hide from their mistakes but tries to learn from them and improve.

As far as Skye and Vicki they will be in the ring without a doubt. Skye and Maggie are 7 months right now and my handler and I are waiting for the coats to get full length. Which Skye is almost there. But Maggie still has a quite a bit to go. Plus we are waiting to see if she grows a little more. Vicki well she is 4 months and her coat is to die for. So hopefully she will make it to the ring at a younger age. You need to remember they will be with a handler, but I will be sure to post pictures. For that will be a very exciting time for me and many others. As far as the fourth baby she is hopefully going to a well known show breeder. But she is still young and as you know there are several things that can go off as I explained earlier. 

Maybe I should have worded it a little different just in case someone may not understand about the one out of three being show quality. That is what my mentor has told me and I swear by her word. So maybe not my one out of three at this time but one day it will be so. When I tried to explain things to Cindi I tried my very best to use the very best wording. I apologize for not explaining myself better. 

And again thank you for the well wishes for the baby.


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## CeeCee's Mom (Sep 14, 2006)

How I missed this thread I do not know. Oh, I pray little Miracle makes it. I did not realize or understand how emotional this can be on a breeder. Please know that we all are pulling for him because he is a very, very special little boy. Good luck and God Bless!!!!


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

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Glad to hear Miracle is doing better. That's great news. I'm also glad Mom is doing okay. Sounds like it was an awful experience for all of you.

I haven't heard anything about your dogs being shown, Becky. Maybe I've missed it, as it is hard to keep up. Cyndi asked a great question about breeding the pet quality dogs hoping for a show quality. I was just browsing your website and looking at the pedigrees of your sires and dams. It does sort of look like that could be the case from what I saw of your pedigrees. One out of 3 of show quality sounds like pretty high odds, even for the top tier breeders who definitely are using their Champions for breeding, or they wouldn't have so many pets for sale. That's just my guess, as I don't know for sure. Just trying to get educated a bit more here. How old are Skye and Maggie? I look forward to seeing your dogs being shown and one of them winning a Championship. Please be sure to share with us. It's always fun to see SM members' dogs being shown. :aktion033: 
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you for the well wishes Mary Ann. 

To answer your questions. NO my dogs that I have in my program so far have not been shown but have been accessed by a very experienced show breeder and got good quality within standard in her opinion. So as for the question are they pet quality no they are not. As most everyone knows, yourself included I am sure, I started off on the wrong foot. Not showing my dogs. As many breeders have and now are in good standings as far as having show champions. I suggest that you go back and look through my post and you will see the explination several times. I have never tried to hide anything from anyone but always been straight forward. Something that is hard to come by these days is someone that does not try to hide from their mistakes but tries to learn from them and improve.

As far as Skye and Vicki they will be in the ring without a doubt. Skye and Maggie are 7 months right now and my handler and I are waiting for the coats to get full length. Which Skye is almost there. But Maggie still has a quite a bit to go. Plus we are waiting to see if she grows a little more. Vicki well she is 4 months and her coat is to die for. So hopefully she will make it to the ring at a younger age. You need to remember they will be with a handler, but I will be sure to post pictures. For that will be a very exciting time for me and many others. As far as the fourth baby she is hopefully going to a well known show breeder. But she is still young and as you know there are several things that can go off as I explained earlier. 

Maybe I should have worded it a little different just in case someone may not understand about the one out of three being show quality. That is what my mentor has told me and I swear by her word. So maybe not my one out of three at this time but one day it will be so. When I tried to explain things to Cindi I tried my very best to use the very best wording. I apologize for not explaining myself better. 

And again thank you for the well wishes for the baby.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I don't understand why pedigrees don't count when it comes to your dogs, Becky. Most of your pedigrees are from breeders with less than ethical standards and yet you breed them. How can you possibly 
know what's in their pedigrees that could hurt them? I'm just baffled by all this. 
You say well you have to start somewhere but conscientious newcomers to show breeding do so by getting to know great showbreeders and then getting a dog from them that is show quality, finish the dog to their championship and then breed.


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

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Thank you for the well wishes Mary Ann. 

To answer your questions. NO my dogs that I have in my program so far have not been shown but have been accessed by a very experienced show breeder and got good quality within standard in her opinion. So as for the question are they pet quality no they are not. As most everyone knows, yourself included I am sure, I started off on the wrong foot. Not showing my dogs. As many breeders have and now are in good standings as far as having show champions. I suggest that you go back and look through my post and you will see the explination several times. I have never tried to hide anything from anyone but always been straight forward. Something that is hard to come by these days is someone that does not try to hide from their mistakes but tries to learn from them and improve.

As far as Skye and Vicki they will be in the ring without a doubt. Skye and Maggie are 7 months right now and my handler and I are waiting for the coats to get full length. Which Skye is almost there. But Maggie still has a quite a bit to go. Plus we are waiting to see if she grows a little more. Vicki well she is 4 months and her coat is to die for. So hopefully she will make it to the ring at a younger age. You need to remember they will be with a handler, but I will be sure to post pictures. For that will be a very exciting time for me and many others. As far as the fourth baby she is hopefully going to a well known show breeder. But she is still young and as you know there are several things that can go off as I explained earlier. 

Maybe I should have worded it a little different just in case someone may not understand about the one out of three being show quality. That is what my mentor has told me and I swear by her word. So maybe not my one out of three at this time but one day it will be so. When I tried to explain things to Cindi I tried my very best to use the very best wording. I apologize for not explaining myself better. 

And again thank you for the well wishes for the baby.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I don't understand why pedigrees don't count when it comes to your dogs, Becky. Most of your pedigrees are from breeders with less than ethical standards and yet you breed them. How can you possibly 
know what's in their pedigrees that could hurt them? I'm just baffled by all this. 
You say well you have to start somewhere but conscientious newcomers to show breeding do so by getting to know great showbreeders and then getting a dog from them that is show quality, finish the dog to their championship and then breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Brit, my dogs are in a program to help Dr Center with her research and to clear them of liver shunt. The other problems such as luxating patellas and heart murmurs do not have testing specifically designed to clear them of that. You may accuse me of being unethical and want to turn every post into a debate but how many show breeders or other breeders are willing to put their program on the line to clear every dog and to improve the health of our breed.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

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Glad to hear Miracle is doing better. That's great news. I'm also glad Mom is doing okay. Sounds like it was an awful experience for all of you.

I haven't heard anything about your dogs being shown, Becky. Maybe I've missed it, as it is hard to keep up. Cyndi asked a great question about breeding the pet quality dogs hoping for a show quality. I was just browsing your website and looking at the pedigrees of your sires and dams. It does sort of look like that could be the case from what I saw of your pedigrees. One out of 3 of show quality sounds like pretty high odds, even for the top tier breeders who definitely are using their Champions for breeding, or they wouldn't have so many pets for sale. That's just my guess, as I don't know for sure. Just trying to get educated a bit more here. How old are Skye and Maggie? I look forward to seeing your dogs being shown and one of them winning a Championship. Please be sure to share with us. It's always fun to see SM members' dogs being shown. :aktion033: 
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you for the well wishes Mary Ann. 

To answer your questions. NO my dogs that I have in my program so far have not been shown but have been accessed by a very experienced show breeder and got good quality within standard in her opinion. So as for the question are they pet quality no they are not. As most everyone knows, yourself included I am sure, I started off on the wrong foot. Not showing my dogs. As many breeders have and now are in good standings as far as having show champions. I suggest that you go back and look through my post and you will see the explination several times. I have never tried to hide anything from anyone but always been straight forward. Something that is hard to come by these days is someone that does not try to hide from their mistakes but tries to learn from them and improve.

As far as Skye and Vicki they will be in the ring without a doubt. Skye and Maggie are 7 months right now and my handler and I are waiting for the coats to get full length. Which Skye is almost there. But Maggie still has a quite a bit to go. Plus we are waiting to see if she grows a little more. Vicki well she is 4 months and her coat is to die for. So hopefully she will make it to the ring at a younger age. You need to remember they will be with a handler, but I will be sure to post pictures. For that will be a very exciting time for me and many others. As far as the fourth baby she is hopefully going to a well known show breeder. But she is still young and as you know there are several things that can go off as I explained earlier. 

Maybe I should have worded it a little different just in case someone may not understand about the one out of three being show quality. That is what my mentor has told me and I swear by her word. So maybe not my one out of three at this time but one day it will be so. When I tried to explain things to Cindi I tried my very best to use the very best wording. I apologize for not explaining myself better. 

And again thank you for the well wishes for the baby.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I don't understand why pedigrees don't count when it comes to your dogs, Becky. Most of your pedigrees are from breeders with less than ethical standards and yet you breed them. How can you possibly 
know what's in their pedigrees that could hurt them? I'm just baffled by all this. 
You say well you have to start somewhere but conscientious newcomers to show breeding do so by getting to know great showbreeders and then getting a dog from them that is show quality, finish the dog to their championship and then breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Brit, my dogs are in a program to help Dr Center with her research and to clear them of liver shunt. The other problems such as luxating patellas and heart murmurs do not have testing specifically designed to clear them of that. You may accuse me of being unethical and want to turn every post into a debate but how many show breeders or other breeders are willing to put their program on the line to clear every dog and to improve the health of our breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]


This isn't what I asked, but oh, well. I'm sure Dr. Center and Dr. Tobias have many breeders working with them. I still don't understand breeding pets to pets to get show dogs. Wasn't Zoley a rescue, yet you bred her? I'm simply confused by all this.


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=517527
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> ...


Thank you for the well wishes Mary Ann. 

To answer your questions. NO my dogs that I have in my program so far have not been shown but have been accessed by a very experienced show breeder and got good quality within standard in her opinion. So as for the question are they pet quality no they are not. As most everyone knows, yourself included I am sure, I started off on the wrong foot. Not showing my dogs. As many breeders have and now are in good standings as far as having show champions. I suggest that you go back and look through my post and you will see the explination several times. I have never tried to hide anything from anyone but always been straight forward. Something that is hard to come by these days is someone that does not try to hide from their mistakes but tries to learn from them and improve.

As far as Skye and Vicki they will be in the ring without a doubt. Skye and Maggie are 7 months right now and my handler and I are waiting for the coats to get full length. Which Skye is almost there. But Maggie still has a quite a bit to go. Plus we are waiting to see if she grows a little more. Vicki well she is 4 months and her coat is to die for. So hopefully she will make it to the ring at a younger age. You need to remember they will be with a handler, but I will be sure to post pictures. For that will be a very exciting time for me and many others. As far as the fourth baby she is hopefully going to a well known show breeder. But she is still young and as you know there are several things that can go off as I explained earlier. 

Maybe I should have worded it a little different just in case someone may not understand about the one out of three being show quality. That is what my mentor has told me and I swear by her word. So maybe not my one out of three at this time but one day it will be so. When I tried to explain things to Cindi I tried my very best to use the very best wording. I apologize for not explaining myself better. 

And again thank you for the well wishes for the baby.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I don't understand why pedigrees don't count when it comes to your dogs, Becky. Most of your pedigrees are from breeders with less than ethical standards and yet you breed them. How can you possibly 
know what's in their pedigrees that could hurt them? I'm just baffled by all this. 
You say well you have to start somewhere but conscientious newcomers to show breeding do so by getting to know great showbreeders and then getting a dog from them that is show quality, finish the dog to their championship and then breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Brit, my dogs are in a program to help Dr Center with her research and to clear them of liver shunt. The other problems such as luxating patellas and heart murmurs do not have testing specifically designed to clear them of that. You may accuse me of being unethical and want to turn every post into a debate but how many show breeders or other breeders are willing to put their program on the line to clear every dog and to improve the health of our breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]


This isn't what I asked, but oh, well. I'm sure Dr. Center and Dr. Tobias have many breeders working with them. I still don't understand breeding pets to pets to get show dogs. Wasn't Zoley a rescue, yet you bred her? I'm simply confused by all this.
[/B][/QUOTE]
No Brit as a Matter of fact Zoley was not a rescue. She is from our own breeding. 

I do not have the time or energy to argue with you or anyone else concering this matter. I know what I am doing and what I have to say here is not going to change your mind. So why waste the energy when it needs to be devoted to the baby that I am trying so hard to save here now. But I guess you and Mary Ann would rather argue than consider this little life that is so precious. And he is a whole lot more important than the drama you two are causing here.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

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Glad to hear Miracle is doing better. That's great news. I'm also glad Mom is doing okay. Sounds like it was an awful experience for all of you.

I haven't heard anything about your dogs being shown, Becky. Maybe I've missed it, as it is hard to keep up. Cyndi asked a great question about breeding the pet quality dogs hoping for a show quality. I was just browsing your website and looking at the pedigrees of your sires and dams. It does sort of look like that could be the case from what I saw of your pedigrees. One out of 3 of show quality sounds like pretty high odds, even for the top tier breeders who definitely are using their Champions for breeding, or they wouldn't have so many pets for sale. That's just my guess, as I don't know for sure. Just trying to get educated a bit more here. How old are Skye and Maggie? I look forward to seeing your dogs being shown and one of them winning a Championship. Please be sure to share with us. It's always fun to see SM members' dogs being shown. :aktion033: 
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you for the well wishes Mary Ann. 

To answer your questions. NO my dogs that I have in my program so far have not been shown but have been accessed by a very experienced show breeder and got good quality within standard in her opinion. So as for the question are they pet quality no they are not. As most everyone knows, yourself included I am sure, I started off on the wrong foot. Not showing my dogs. As many breeders have and now are in good standings as far as having show champions. I suggest that you go back and look through my post and you will see the explination several times. I have never tried to hide anything from anyone but always been straight forward. Something that is hard to come by these days is someone that does not try to hide from their mistakes but tries to learn from them and improve.

As far as Skye and Vicki they will be in the ring without a doubt. Skye and Maggie are 7 months right now and my handler and I are waiting for the coats to get full length. Which Skye is almost there. But Maggie still has a quite a bit to go. Plus we are waiting to see if she grows a little more. Vicki well she is 4 months and her coat is to die for. So hopefully she will make it to the ring at a younger age. You need to remember they will be with a handler, but I will be sure to post pictures. For that will be a very exciting time for me and many others. As far as the fourth baby she is hopefully going to a well known show breeder. But she is still young and as you know there are several things that can go off as I explained earlier. 

Maybe I should have worded it a little different just in case someone may not understand about the one out of three being show quality. That is what my mentor has told me and I swear by her word. So maybe not my one out of three at this time but one day it will be so. When I tried to explain things to Cindi I tried my very best to use the very best wording. I apologize for not explaining myself better. 

And again thank you for the well wishes for the baby.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I don't understand why pedigrees don't count when it comes to your dogs, Becky. Most of your pedigrees are from breeders with less than ethical standards and yet you breed them. How can you possibly 
know what's in their pedigrees that could hurt them? I'm just baffled by all this. 
You say well you have to start somewhere but conscientious newcomers to show breeding do so by getting to know great showbreeders and then getting a dog from them that is show quality, finish the dog to their championship and then breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Brit, my dogs are in a program to help Dr Center with her research and to clear them of liver shunt. The other problems such as luxating patellas and heart murmurs do not have testing specifically designed to clear them of that. You may accuse me of being unethical and want to turn every post into a debate but how many show breeders or other breeders are willing to put their program on the line to clear every dog and to improve the health of our breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]


This isn't what I asked, but oh, well. I'm sure Dr. Center and Dr. Tobias have many breeders working with them. I still don't understand breeding pets to pets to get show dogs. Wasn't Zoley a rescue, yet you bred her? I'm simply confused by all this.
[/B][/QUOTE]
No Brit as a Matter of fact Zoley was not a rescue. She is from our own breeding. 

I do not have the time or energy to argue with you or anyone else concering this matter. I know what I am doing and what I have to say here is not going to change your mind. So why waste the energy when it needs to be devoted to the baby that I am trying so hard to save here now. But I guess you and Mary Ann would rather argue than consider this little life that is so precious. And he is a whole lot more important than the drama you two are causing here.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I wasn't arguing but simply asking legitimate questions, just as Binniebee did.
You responded so I asked in reference to your response. No drama here.


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## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=517534
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Glad to hear Miracle is doing better. That's great news. I'm also glad Mom is doing okay. Sounds like it was an awful experience for all of you.

I haven't heard anything about your dogs being shown, Becky. Maybe I've missed it, as it is hard to keep up. Cyndi asked a great question about breeding the pet quality dogs hoping for a show quality. I was just browsing your website and looking at the pedigrees of your sires and dams. It does sort of look like that could be the case from what I saw of your pedigrees. One out of 3 of show quality sounds like pretty high odds, even for the top tier breeders who definitely are using their Champions for breeding, or they wouldn't have so many pets for sale. That's just my guess, as I don't know for sure. Just trying to get educated a bit more here. How old are Skye and Maggie? I look forward to seeing your dogs being shown and one of them winning a Championship. Please be sure to share with us. It's always fun to see SM members' dogs being shown. :aktion033: 
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you for the well wishes Mary Ann. 

To answer your questions. NO my dogs that I have in my program so far have not been shown but have been accessed by a very experienced show breeder and got good quality within standard in her opinion. So as for the question are they pet quality no they are not. As most everyone knows, yourself included I am sure, I started off on the wrong foot. Not showing my dogs. As many breeders have and now are in good standings as far as having show champions. I suggest that you go back and look through my post and you will see the explination several times. I have never tried to hide anything from anyone but always been straight forward. Something that is hard to come by these days is someone that does not try to hide from their mistakes but tries to learn from them and improve.

As far as Skye and Vicki they will be in the ring without a doubt. Skye and Maggie are 7 months right now and my handler and I are waiting for the coats to get full length. Which Skye is almost there. But Maggie still has a quite a bit to go. Plus we are waiting to see if she grows a little more. Vicki well she is 4 months and her coat is to die for. So hopefully she will make it to the ring at a younger age. You need to remember they will be with a handler, but I will be sure to post pictures. For that will be a very exciting time for me and many others. As far as the fourth baby she is hopefully going to a well known show breeder. But she is still young and as you know there are several things that can go off as I explained earlier. 

Maybe I should have worded it a little different just in case someone may not understand about the one out of three being show quality. That is what my mentor has told me and I swear by her word. So maybe not my one out of three at this time but one day it will be so. When I tried to explain things to Cindi I tried my very best to use the very best wording. I apologize for not explaining myself better. 

And again thank you for the well wishes for the baby.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I don't understand why pedigrees don't count when it comes to your dogs, Becky. Most of your pedigrees are from breeders with less than ethical standards and yet you breed them. How can you possibly 
know what's in their pedigrees that could hurt them? I'm just baffled by all this. 
You say well you have to start somewhere but conscientious newcomers to show breeding do so by getting to know great showbreeders and then getting a dog from them that is show quality, finish the dog to their championship and then breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Brit, my dogs are in a program to help Dr Center with her research and to clear them of liver shunt. The other problems such as luxating patellas and heart murmurs do not have testing specifically designed to clear them of that. You may accuse me of being unethical and want to turn every post into a debate but how many show breeders or other breeders are willing to put their program on the line to clear every dog and to improve the health of our breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]


This isn't what I asked, but oh, well. I'm sure Dr. Center and Dr. Tobias have many breeders working with them. I still don't understand breeding pets to pets to get show dogs. Wasn't Zoley a rescue, yet you bred her? I'm simply confused by all this.
[/B][/QUOTE]
No Brit as a Matter of fact Zoley was not a rescue. She is from our own breeding. 

I do not have the time or energy to argue with you or anyone else concering this matter. I know what I am doing and what I have to say here is not going to change your mind. So why waste the energy when it needs to be devoted to the baby that I am trying so hard to save here now. But I guess you and Mary Ann would rather argue than consider this little life that is so precious. And he is a whole lot more important than the drama you two are causing here.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Becky, I wasn't arguing with you. I was merely trying to understand, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.


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## Boobookit (Dec 3, 2005)

rayer: rayer: rayer: rayer: *for Baby Miracle

Marie, Pacino & Ralphie*


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## Poppy's mommy (Dec 21, 2007)

*Yay i am so glad to here Miracle is doing a lot better, God bless his little heart! :aktion033: *


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## bigsmom (Sep 8, 2007)

prayers for miracle, you, and your family*:grouphug: rayer:


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## hayley (Oct 24, 2007)

i hope your little baby makes it ok. (just saw this thread!) sounds like you are working very hard to ensure the best for him. hope your efforrts are rewarded and miracle has many happy years.


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## triste (Aug 30, 2004)

I am finally able to get up and sit at the normal computer instead of sitting on the couch w/ my Ipod Touch and surfing! I can properly reply to some threads now :aktion033: I'm going to have to be concise so I don't overdo.... but..


Suzy...keep up the good work w/ the little Miracle. I am sure he feels your love. :grouphug:


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## revakb2 (Sep 8, 2006)

Becky,

Try and keep us updated on little Micacle. Take care of yourself and the little one.


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

I'm praying for little Miracle


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## joyomom (Jan 13, 2008)

Miracles do happen every day and he is on his way . we'll continue to pray! rayer:


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## hambys97 (Feb 25, 2005)

Please let us know how Miracle is doing...


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## Morkie4 (Oct 13, 2006)

I'd sure like a little update on Miracle! P L E A S E


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

I am sorry that I have not updated lately but I am sure you all understand. 

I think we are on the way up the mountain and he is going to be OK. He is getting tube fed ever three hours and lets me know when he starts getting hungry. He is wiggling like he should while sleeping. That stimulates his growth. 

I have not had to administer any more fluids or liver remedy. He is pottying really good also. 

So I am in high hopes that he is going to survive. 

His mom has absolutely no milk so he will be tube fed until he is old enough to be put on mush. Which that is fine with me. It just gives us more time to bond. Because if he does make it he is staying right here with me. I have called him every name that I used to call my Kenny. And with me doing that it is just attaching me closer to him. 

Thank you for the caring post and concern for our baby. I will update, but not often unless he takes a turn for the worst. 

Please keep the prayer chain going because I know that the reason he is still alive is through the grace of God. 

Thank you all.


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## hambys97 (Feb 25, 2005)

Thank you Becky! I am grateful that he is doing as well as he is. And I can't imagine him going any where either. You have already been through too much to let anyone else take care of him. Please, continue to give us updates, not just if things take a turn for the worst. :grouphug:


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## angel's mom (Feb 14, 2007)

Thank you for the update, Becky. I'm praying he will continue to improve.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Glad to hear he's doing well! :aktion033:


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

Thanks for the update Becky. I want you to know something. When Hope and her brother were born, their mother would not nurse them. Hope and the brother were completely fed by the breeder. Luckily there were other dogs around and she learned all of the correct puppy behaviours. My Hope is one of the nicest, sweetest dogs ever. I just wanted you to know that your Miracle has the potential to be a wonderful, fabulous companion. Keep the faith.....


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## ClaBec Maltese (Feb 19, 2007)

> Thanks for the update Becky. I want you to know something. When Hope and her brother were born, their mother would not nurse them. Hope and the brother were completely fed by the breeder. Luckily there were other dogs around and she learned all of the correct puppy behaviours. My Hope is one of the nicest, sweetest dogs ever. I just wanted you to know that your Miracle has the potential to be a wonderful, fabulous companion. Keep the faith.....[/B]


Thank you Susan. Your heart felt post has brought tears to my eyes. 


Thank you all for caring, checking up on him and commenting on how he is doing. I just fed him again. I am a bit concerned that he has not gained any weight but that may be because he was so dehydrated. I weigh him every feeding and his belly is full so he is digesting it. If not he would be screaming in pain. 

Please keep the faith and remember him in your prayers again tonight.


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## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

Becky, so thankful that you are keeping in touch and keeping me and everyone else updated. I was so concerned last night, but it sounds as if perhaps the baby is over the hump now and will be able to make it with your feedings. How difficult it has to be for you and your family, but just to know that you are saving a life or at least doing your best at it must give you some relief. We can't save the world, nor all its inhabitants that we want to save, but you have gone way beyond the 'call of duty' in trying to save these babies!

*Big Hugs*
Cyndi


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

glad to hear that Baby Miracle is doing better, i will continue to keep him in my prayers rayer: rayer:


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## babygirlmom (Jul 3, 2007)

:grouphug: Hoping little Miracle is doing better. Sounds like you have really gone through an ordeal here!


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

I was just checking in for an update and I'm so glad little Miracle seems to be doing better! :aktion033: It's so nice to wake up to good news.


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## triste (Aug 30, 2004)

thank you so much for taking the time to update us on Miracle. I really have been thinking about you. I pray you find the strength to continue on this journey. Try to take care of yourself too!


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

OMG, Becky, I don't know how I missed this post.

I'm praying for little Miracle. rayer: rayer: rayer: :grouphug: 

Be very careful when tube feeding him. I know that you said that this was the 1st time you have actually tube fed. I've had to do it a number of times with all the breeding that I've done, but it is very easy for a little one that is struggling to get pneumonia with tube feeding. As soon as possible, please try to get him on a bottle. I did have one with a similar story that did get pneumonia from my tube feeding him. Just be extra careful. I know that he has to be tube fed to get his strength up, but as soon as possible change to a bottle.

What you said at the beginning of this post is what I've often said to those that tell me that they want to breed just for the "fun" of it. Breeding is and can be fun and over the years, I've enjoyed many successes and truly believe that I significantly improved the Lhasa breed. But, with the joys, there are sometimes hearbreaks and a LOT of hard work. This litter is a prime example. And it can happen to any of us. I've had my own share of sorrows from breeding, but, I've also had more than my share of joy. Think about what you would do in a situation like Becky's BEFORE you breed. Would you be able and/or willing to tube feed a puppy round the clock if needed. No sleep for you because you're up every hour for another feeding. Or, could you save a puppy that wasn't breathing when it was born? These are the types of things that are encountered by serious breeders more than we like to think about.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Becky - how is Miracle today?


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## MistyLane (Feb 4, 2008)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=517527
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the well wishes Mary Ann. 

To answer your questions. NO my dogs that I have in my program so far have not been shown but have been accessed by a very experienced show breeder and got good quality within standard in her opinion. So as for the question are they pet quality no they are not. As most everyone knows, yourself included I am sure, I started off on the wrong foot. Not showing my dogs. As many breeders have and now are in good standings as far as having show champions. I suggest that you go back and look through my post and you will see the explination several times. I have never tried to hide anything from anyone but always been straight forward. Something that is hard to come by these days is someone that does not try to hide from their mistakes but tries to learn from them and improve.

As far as Skye and Vicki they will be in the ring without a doubt. Skye and Maggie are 7 months right now and my handler and I are waiting for the coats to get full length. Which Skye is almost there. But Maggie still has a quite a bit to go. Plus we are waiting to see if she grows a little more. Vicki well she is 4 months and her coat is to die for. So hopefully she will make it to the ring at a younger age. You need to remember they will be with a handler, but I will be sure to post pictures. For that will be a very exciting time for me and many others. As far as the fourth baby she is hopefully going to a well known show breeder. But she is still young and as you know there are several things that can go off as I explained earlier. 

Maybe I should have worded it a little different just in case someone may not understand about the one out of three being show quality. That is what my mentor has told me and I swear by her word. So maybe not my one out of three at this time but one day it will be so. When I tried to explain things to Cindi I tried my very best to use the very best wording. I apologize for not explaining myself better. 

And again thank you for the well wishes for the baby.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I don't understand why pedigrees don't count when it comes to your dogs, Becky. Most of your pedigrees are from breeders with less than ethical standards and yet you breed them. How can you possibly 
know what's in their pedigrees that could hurt them? I'm just baffled by all this. 
You say well you have to start somewhere but conscientious newcomers to show breeding do so by getting to know great showbreeders and then getting a dog from them that is show quality, finish the dog to their championship and then breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Brit, my dogs are in a program to help Dr Center with her research and to clear them of liver shunt. The other problems such as luxating patellas and heart murmurs do not have testing specifically designed to clear them of that. You may accuse me of being unethical and want to turn every post into a debate but how many show breeders or other breeders are willing to put their program on the line to clear every dog and to improve the health of our breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]


This isn't what I asked, but oh, well. I'm sure Dr. Center and Dr. Tobias have many breeders working with them. I still don't understand breeding pets to pets to get show dogs. Wasn't Zoley a rescue, yet you bred her? I'm simply confused by all this.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Brit,
I believe I can clear this up for you. If not, perhaps Becky can be more specific. Zoley is not one of Becky's "rescues". Her mother Priscilla was. There is a topic under breeders where Becky talks of obtaining her. Becky obtained Priscilla from Maria Stevens, and kept Zoley from one breeding and Holly Ann from another.


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## Morkie4 (Oct 13, 2006)

Thanks for the update and the youtube on how to tube feed.............that was really interesting and that baby was sooooooooooo tiny. Hope Miracle is feeling better today!


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=517534
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Glad to hear Miracle is doing better. That's great news. I'm also glad Mom is doing okay. Sounds like it was an awful experience for all of you.

I haven't heard anything about your dogs being shown, Becky. Maybe I've missed it, as it is hard to keep up. Cyndi asked a great question about breeding the pet quality dogs hoping for a show quality. I was just browsing your website and looking at the pedigrees of your sires and dams. It does sort of look like that could be the case from what I saw of your pedigrees. One out of 3 of show quality sounds like pretty high odds, even for the top tier breeders who definitely are using their Champions for breeding, or they wouldn't have so many pets for sale. That's just my guess, as I don't know for sure. Just trying to get educated a bit more here. How old are Skye and Maggie? I look forward to seeing your dogs being shown and one of them winning a Championship. Please be sure to share with us. It's always fun to see SM members' dogs being shown. :aktion033: 
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you for the well wishes Mary Ann. 

To answer your questions. NO my dogs that I have in my program so far have not been shown but have been accessed by a very experienced show breeder and got good quality within standard in her opinion. So as for the question are they pet quality no they are not. As most everyone knows, yourself included I am sure, I started off on the wrong foot. Not showing my dogs. As many breeders have and now are in good standings as far as having show champions. I suggest that you go back and look through my post and you will see the explination several times. I have never tried to hide anything from anyone but always been straight forward. Something that is hard to come by these days is someone that does not try to hide from their mistakes but tries to learn from them and improve.

As far as Skye and Vicki they will be in the ring without a doubt. Skye and Maggie are 7 months right now and my handler and I are waiting for the coats to get full length. Which Skye is almost there. But Maggie still has a quite a bit to go. Plus we are waiting to see if she grows a little more. Vicki well she is 4 months and her coat is to die for. So hopefully she will make it to the ring at a younger age. You need to remember they will be with a handler, but I will be sure to post pictures. For that will be a very exciting time for me and many others. As far as the fourth baby she is hopefully going to a well known show breeder. But she is still young and as you know there are several things that can go off as I explained earlier. 

Maybe I should have worded it a little different just in case someone may not understand about the one out of three being show quality. That is what my mentor has told me and I swear by her word. So maybe not my one out of three at this time but one day it will be so. When I tried to explain things to Cindi I tried my very best to use the very best wording. I apologize for not explaining myself better. 

And again thank you for the well wishes for the baby.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I don't understand why pedigrees don't count when it comes to your dogs, Becky. Most of your pedigrees are from breeders with less than ethical standards and yet you breed them. How can you possibly 
know what's in their pedigrees that could hurt them? I'm just baffled by all this. 
You say well you have to start somewhere but conscientious newcomers to show breeding do so by getting to know great showbreeders and then getting a dog from them that is show quality, finish the dog to their championship and then breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Brit, my dogs are in a program to help Dr Center with her research and to clear them of liver shunt. The other problems such as luxating patellas and heart murmurs do not have testing specifically designed to clear them of that. You may accuse me of being unethical and want to turn every post into a debate but how many show breeders or other breeders are willing to put their program on the line to clear every dog and to improve the health of our breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]


This isn't what I asked, but oh, well. I'm sure Dr. Center and Dr. Tobias have many breeders working with them. I still don't understand breeding pets to pets to get show dogs. Wasn't Zoley a rescue, yet you bred her? I'm simply confused by all this.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Brit,
I believe I can clear this up for you. If not, perhaps Becky can be more specific. Zoley is not one of Becky's "rescues". Her mother Priscilla was. There is a topic under breeders where Becky talks of obtaining her. Becky obtained Priscilla from Maria Stevens, and kept Zoley from one breeding and Holly Ann from another.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Well, I have to say - there is no subtly with this sh*t stirring!


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## Suz & the Fluffs (Mar 11, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=517534
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Glad to hear Miracle is doing better. That's great news. I'm also glad Mom is doing okay. Sounds like it was an awful experience for all of you.

I haven't heard anything about your dogs being shown, Becky. Maybe I've missed it, as it is hard to keep up. Cyndi asked a great question about breeding the pet quality dogs hoping for a show quality. I was just browsing your website and looking at the pedigrees of your sires and dams. It does sort of look like that could be the case from what I saw of your pedigrees. One out of 3 of show quality sounds like pretty high odds, even for the top tier breeders who definitely are using their Champions for breeding, or they wouldn't have so many pets for sale. That's just my guess, as I don't know for sure. Just trying to get educated a bit more here. How old are Skye and Maggie? I look forward to seeing your dogs being shown and one of them winning a Championship. Please be sure to share with us. It's always fun to see SM members' dogs being shown. :aktion033: 
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you for the well wishes Mary Ann. 

To answer your questions. NO my dogs that I have in my program so far have not been shown but have been accessed by a very experienced show breeder and got good quality within standard in her opinion. So as for the question are they pet quality no they are not. As most everyone knows, yourself included I am sure, I started off on the wrong foot. Not showing my dogs. As many breeders have and now are in good standings as far as having show champions. I suggest that you go back and look through my post and you will see the explination several times. I have never tried to hide anything from anyone but always been straight forward. Something that is hard to come by these days is someone that does not try to hide from their mistakes but tries to learn from them and improve.

As far as Skye and Vicki they will be in the ring without a doubt. Skye and Maggie are 7 months right now and my handler and I are waiting for the coats to get full length. Which Skye is almost there. But Maggie still has a quite a bit to go. Plus we are waiting to see if she grows a little more. Vicki well she is 4 months and her coat is to die for. So hopefully she will make it to the ring at a younger age. You need to remember they will be with a handler, but I will be sure to post pictures. For that will be a very exciting time for me and many others. As far as the fourth baby she is hopefully going to a well known show breeder. But she is still young and as you know there are several things that can go off as I explained earlier. 

Maybe I should have worded it a little different just in case someone may not understand about the one out of three being show quality. That is what my mentor has told me and I swear by her word. So maybe not my one out of three at this time but one day it will be so. When I tried to explain things to Cindi I tried my very best to use the very best wording. I apologize for not explaining myself better. 

And again thank you for the well wishes for the baby.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I don't understand why pedigrees don't count when it comes to your dogs, Becky. Most of your pedigrees are from breeders with less than ethical standards and yet you breed them. How can you possibly 
know what's in their pedigrees that could hurt them? I'm just baffled by all this. 
You say well you have to start somewhere but conscientious newcomers to show breeding do so by getting to know great showbreeders and then getting a dog from them that is show quality, finish the dog to their championship and then breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Brit, my dogs are in a program to help Dr Center with her research and to clear them of liver shunt. The other problems such as luxating patellas and heart murmurs do not have testing specifically designed to clear them of that. You may accuse me of being unethical and want to turn every post into a debate but how many show breeders or other breeders are willing to put their program on the line to clear every dog and to improve the health of our breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]


This isn't what I asked, but oh, well. I'm sure Dr. Center and Dr. Tobias have many breeders working with them. I still don't understand breeding pets to pets to get show dogs. Wasn't Zoley a rescue, yet you bred her? I'm simply confused by all this.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Brit,
I believe I can clear this up for you. If not, perhaps Becky can be more specific. Zoley is not one of Becky's "rescues". Her mother Priscilla was. There is a topic under breeders where Becky talks of obtaining her. Becky obtained Priscilla from Maria Stevens, and kept Zoley from one breeding and Holly Ann from another. 

[/B][/QUOTE]

Are you kidding me!!! :smpullhair: Another newbie came to start drama??? Why do these stupid people who only join this forum to start crap drives me nuts! :smilie_tischkante: 

JOE PLEASE BAN THIS TROUBLEMAKER!


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## nikkivong (Aug 25, 2006)

> Are you kidding me!!! :smpullhair: Another newbie came to start drama??? Why do these stupid people who only join this forum to start crap drives me nuts! :smilie_tischkante:
> 
> JOE PLEASE BAN THIS IDIOT!!!![/B]


Hrm.. this disturbs me. Didn't we recently start a post about not calling names and hurting feelings? Last time i checked, calling someone stupid and an idiot is pretty hurtful. So newbies can't express their concerns or share information that they have that might be helpful to other SM members or anyone who stops by this forum?


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## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=519097
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Come on, group! I agree with Nikki in this. Why can't someone new who may know information not post it without being attacked? If it's not true, then I feel sure that Becky can defend herself. I'm not saying this against Becky but against the attitude which I'm seeing be displayed here. Frankly, just because someone has been a member here for years and has friends on the forum doesn't make that person always right. Besides, the newbie didn't post in an ugly manner. She posted facts as she seems to know them. Brit asked a question, and it wasn't answered. Apparently, this person had some answers.


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## binniebee (Sep 27, 2007)

Becky, I am so happy that Miracle continues to improve! I hope you are managing to get SOME rest! 

*hugs*
Cyndi

PS
Those who are posting negatively toward Becky, please do not use my first post in this thread as ammunition. I was not trying to put anyone down, I was just unclear about the initial post. Thanks!


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

Anyone have any stupid jokes to post??



darn... 3MaltMom is NEVER around when she is needed...


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## Morkie4 (Oct 13, 2006)

Subject: Just another good reason not to divorce!



A dad is on his way home a bit late from the office
when he realizes that it's his daughter's birthday and
he has not bought her a gift. So he stops at a toy
store to buy his daughter a Barbie. Inside he sees a
Barbie display and asks the salesgirl how much the
Barbie's are.

The girl responds: "Which one? We have:
Volleyball Barbie: $19.95
Gymnast Barbie: $19.95
Shopping Barbie: $19.95
Surfer Barbie: $19.95
Doctor Barbie: $19.95
Disco Barbie: $19.95
and
Divorced Barbie: $299.95

Shocked, the man asks, "why is Divorced Barbie $299.95
when all the other Barbie's are $19.95?"

Exasperated, the girl responds: "Sir, Divorced Barbie
comes with:

Ken's Car
Ken's House
Ken's Boat
Ken's furniture
Ken's jewelry
Ken's money
Ken's computer, and
Ken's best friend


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

> Subject: Just another good reason not to divorce!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You forgot Ken's unmentionables... :HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley: :HistericalSmiley:


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

> Subject: Just another good reason not to divorce!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



:smpullhair: Little did I know the joke was going to hit so close to home!!! :HistericalSmiley:


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=519197
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Linda,

When did you meet my EX?? :smstarz:


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## Suz & the Fluffs (Mar 11, 2006)

> Subject: Just another good reason not to divorce!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :smrofl: :smrofl: Good one Carol! :smrofl: :smrofl:


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## Suz & the Fluffs (Mar 11, 2006)

> Anyone have any stupid jokes to post??
> 
> 
> 
> darn... 3MaltMom is NEVER around when she is needed... [/B]


*No stupid jokes here only good ones.*

 When it's time to go back to his childhood, he's already there.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=519117
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This person isn't a "newbie" but a person who came directly on here to start trouble. It is quite obvious that she knows Becky and that she was a friend at one time. She has 2 posts and they are both directed towards Becky and no other thread. No one on a forum should have to "defend" themselves. Both you and Brit have posted negatively on her threads, ok maybe not "negatively" but to sitr up trouble. 

Every breeder has to start somewhere. Their is no such thing as a perfect dog. Is she now trying to improve her breeding program? Yes, and this takes time and patience. I can bet you top dollar that the high end show breeders didn't start out with a perfect breeding program. She is spending the money to test her dogs to make sure they do not have "genetic" defects. 

It just irritates the heck out of me how some people are so judgemental and don't have lives; that all they live for is to make trouble and cause drama on forums. I believe we are all here for one reason our love of the Maltese breed period. We aren't here to pass judgement on others. If you don't agree with some one fine, you don't have to wage an attack on that person. This is so childish and immature. I'm just so frustrated right now with all this daycare behavior.

Now you can continue with the jokes!!


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## Morkie4 (Oct 13, 2006)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two cannibals meet one day. The first cannibal says, "You know, I just can't seem to get a tender Missionary. I've baked them, I've roasted them, I've stewed them, I've barbecued them, I've tried every sort of marinade; I just cannot seem to get them tender."

The second cannibal asks, "What kind of Missionary do you use?"

The other replied, "you know, the ones that hang out at that place at the bend of the river. They have those brown cloaks with a rope around the waist and they're sort of bald on the top with a funny ring of hair on their heads."

"Ah, ha!" the second cannibal replies. "No wonder......those are friars!"


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## coco (Sep 20, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=519148
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> 
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> ...



Come on, group! I agree with Nikki in this. Why can't someone new who may know information not post it without being attacked? If it's not true, then I feel sure that Becky can defend herself. I'm not saying this against Becky but against the attitude which I'm seeing be displayed here. Frankly, just because someone has been a member here for years and has friends on the forum doesn't make that person always right. Besides, the newbie didn't post in an ugly manner. She posted facts as she seems to know them. Brit asked a question, and it wasn't answered. Apparently, this person had some answers.
[/B][/QUOTE]

This person isn't a "newbie" but a person who came directly on here to start trouble. It is quite obvious that she knows Becky and that she was a friend at one time. She has 2 posts and they are both directed towards Becky and no other thread. No one on a forum should have to "defend" themselves. Both you and Brit have posted negatively on her threads, ok maybe not "negatively" but to sitr up trouble. 

Every breeder has to start somewhere. Their is no such thing as a perfect dog. Is she now trying to improve her breeding program? Yes, and this takes time and patience. I can bet you top dollar that the high end show breeders didn't start out with a perfect breeding program. She is spending the money to test her dogs to make sure they do not have "genetic" defects. 

It just irritates the heck out of me how some people are so judgemental and don't have lives; that all they live for is to make trouble and cause drama on forums. I believe we are all here for one reason our love of the Maltese breed period. We aren't here to pass judgement on others. If you don't agree with some one fine, you don't have to wage an attack on that person. This is so childish and immature. I'm just so frustrated right now with all this daycare behavior.

Now you can continue with the jokes!!
[/B][/QUOTE]

Well, I beg to differ with you. I'm not going to get into a big debate here with you, but I am going to defend my post. I was very polite to Becky. If you, or Becky, don't like those questions then so be it. I have nothing against Becky, personally. I feel sure she is a very nice person. I do have legitimate questions about the dogs she is breeding. I waged no attack on Becky. She made a post about not breeding pets, (she titled the thread, not I), and I went to her website (something I'd never done) and looked at the pedigrees which she has displayed there. I saw that her dogs have very poor pedigrees and did some reading. She's put it all out here on the forum. If she doesn't want people to ask questions, she could have not said so much. One just does not breed rescues and pets to get show dogs. You breed Champions and hope for a show dog from that breeding. Seems to me she may have it a bit backwards. I cannot help who else posts on this forum. I have nothing to do with that. I can only speak for myself, and I've been nothing but polite in my posts to Becky. 

However, I care about this breed. I don't want to see our breed over-populated with poorly bred dogs. I see people passing judgement on top tier breeders here all the time, so why can't we ask questions of someone who is on this forum? I am sorry, but I just don't get it. So, that just irritates the heck out of me.  

I'm sorry, but I have to sort of laugh about the drama and daycare reference. Forgive me. 

Now you can continue with the jokes.


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## BrookeB676 (Oct 17, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=519248
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This person isn't a "newbie" but a person who came directly on here to start trouble. It is quite obvious that she knows Becky and that she was a friend at one time. She has 2 posts and they are both directed towards Becky and no other thread. No one on a forum should have to "defend" themselves. Both you and Brit have posted negatively on her threads, ok maybe not "negatively" but to sitr up trouble. 

Every breeder has to start somewhere. Their is no such thing as a perfect dog. Is she now trying to improve her breeding program? Yes, and this takes time and patience. I can bet you top dollar that the high end show breeders didn't start out with a perfect breeding program. She is spending the money to test her dogs to make sure they do not have "genetic" defects. 

It just irritates the heck out of me how some people are so judgemental and don't have lives; that all they live for is to make trouble and cause drama on forums. I believe we are all here for one reason our love of the Maltese breed period. We aren't here to pass judgement on others. If you don't agree with some one fine, you don't have to wage an attack on that person. This is so childish and immature. I'm just so frustrated right now with all this daycare behavior.

Now you can continue with the jokes!!
[/B][/QUOTE]

Well, I beg to differ with you. I'm not going to get into a big debate here with you, but I am going to defend my post. I was very polite to Becky. If you, or Becky, don't like those questions then so be it. I have nothing against Becky, personally. I feel sure she is a very nice person. I do have legitimate questions about the dogs she is breeding. I waged no attack on Becky. She made a post about not breeding pets, (she titled the thread, not I), and I went to her website (something I'd never done) and looked at the pedigrees which she has displayed there. I saw that her dogs have very poor pedigrees and did some reading. She's put it all out here on the forum. If she doesn't want people to ask questions, she could have not said so much. One just does not breed rescues and pets to get show dogs. You breed Champions and hope for a show dog from that breeding. Seems to me she may have it a bit backwards. I cannot help who else posts on this forum. I have nothing to do with that. I can only speak for myself, and I've been nothing but polite in my posts to Becky. 

However, I care about this breed. I don't want to see our breed over-populated with poorly bred dogs. I see people passing judgement on top tier breeders here all the time, so why can't we ask questions of someone who is on this forum? I am sorry, but I just don't get it. So, that just irritates the heck out of me.  

I'm sorry, but I have to sort of laugh about the drama and daycare reference. Forgive me. 

Now you can continue with the jokes. 
[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with you Mary Ann, I think everything you said is logical and completely legitimate. And I have no reason to have anything against Becky or any breeder. I just feel like some of these concerns are should be addressed and I would expect us all as maltese lovers to question all breeders as we have to look out for the breed.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

With all due respect to everyone on this forum, EVERY breeder should be questioned.

If there's a question, it should be answered. That's only right. My goodness they are breeding and selling live animals. It would be offensive to all the dogs in the shelters, to NOT question.

Never turn a blind eye. It's just wrong to the sickly, poorly-bred little critters, who are so desperately counting on us.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

> With all due respect to everyone on this forum, EVERY breeder should be questioned.
> 
> If there's a question, it should be answered. That's only right. My goodness they are breeding and selling live animals. It would be offensive to all the dogs in the shelters, to NOT question.
> 
> Never turn a blind eye. It's just wrong to the sickly, poorly-bred little critters, who are so desperately counting on us.[/B]



Exactly my point *every* breeder should be questioned. I think I will leave it at that. Goodnight folks.


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## Missy&Maggie (Jun 17, 2007)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=519304
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Come on, group! I agree with Nikki in this. Why can't someone new who may know information not post it without being attacked? If it's not true, then I feel sure that Becky can defend herself. I'm not saying this against Becky but against the attitude which I'm seeing be displayed here. Frankly, just because someone has been a member here for years and has friends on the forum doesn't make that person always right. Besides, the newbie didn't post in an ugly manner. She posted facts as she seems to know them. Brit asked a question, and it wasn't answered. Apparently, this person had some answers.
[/B][/QUOTE]

This person isn't a "newbie" but a person who came directly on here to start trouble. It is quite obvious that she knows Becky and that she was a friend at one time. She has 2 posts and they are both directed towards Becky and no other thread. No one on a forum should have to "defend" themselves. Both you and Brit have posted negatively on her threads, ok maybe not "negatively" but to sitr up trouble. 

Every breeder has to start somewhere. Their is no such thing as a perfect dog. Is she now trying to improve her breeding program? Yes, and this takes time and patience. I can bet you top dollar that the high end show breeders didn't start out with a perfect breeding program. She is spending the money to test her dogs to make sure they do not have "genetic" defects. 

It just irritates the heck out of me how some people are so judgemental and don't have lives; that all they live for is to make trouble and cause drama on forums. I believe we are all here for one reason our love of the Maltese breed period. We aren't here to pass judgement on others. If you don't agree with some one fine, you don't have to wage an attack on that person. This is so childish and immature. I'm just so frustrated right now with all this daycare behavior.

Now you can continue with the jokes!!
[/B][/QUOTE]

Well, I beg to differ with you. I'm not going to get into a big debate here with you, but I am going to defend my post. I was very polite to Becky. If you, or Becky, don't like those questions then so be it. I have nothing against Becky, personally. I feel sure she is a very nice person. I do have legitimate questions about the dogs she is breeding. I waged no attack on Becky. She made a post about not breeding pets, (she titled the thread, not I), and I went to her website (something I'd never done) and looked at the pedigrees which she has displayed there. I saw that her dogs have very poor pedigrees and did some reading. She's put it all out here on the forum. If she doesn't want people to ask questions, she could have not said so much. One just does not breed rescues and pets to get show dogs. You breed Champions and hope for a show dog from that breeding. Seems to me she may have it a bit backwards. I cannot help who else posts on this forum. I have nothing to do with that. I can only speak for myself, and I've been nothing but polite in my posts to Becky. 

However, I care about this breed. I don't want to see our breed over-populated with poorly bred dogs. I see people passing judgement on top tier breeders here all the time, so why can't we ask questions of someone who is on this forum? I am sorry, but I just don't get it. So, that just irritates the heck out of me.  

I'm sorry, but I have to sort of laugh about the drama and daycare reference. Forgive me. 

Now you can continue with the jokes. 
[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with you Mary Ann, I think everything you said is logical and completely legitimate. And I have no reason to have anything against Becky or any breeder. I just feel like some of these concerns are should be addressed and I would expect us all as maltese lovers to question all breeders as we have to look out for the breed.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with both Mary Ann and Brooke. I don't believe that any one is trying to attack Becky. If I have learned something from SM, it is that we should question breeders and that breeders should be open about their breeding programs. Unfortunately, our lil Maltese can't talk (well at least Maggie can't), so it is up to us to protect the breed. 

This should not turn into drama. It is not a personal attack on anyone.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

I really did intend to stay out of this particular topic. But I do feel I have something to say. I don't see anything in this thread that merits the typical "change the direction with humor" hi-jacking that I have so often appreciated and even initiated myself from time to time. Only once do I recall a member attacking someone else verbally by calling them stupid and an idiot and I'm sure that was done in the heat of the moment and normally she would not have responded that way. Other than that, I feel some legitimate questions have been asked. We all here can agree that we have the love of the breed and the betterment of the breed first and foremost a priority. I don't believe any breeder should ever get to the place where they are never questioned. Therefore, if someone has a legitimate question, let them ask. The person who is being asked the question can surely answer better than anyone else can for them. If false accusations and even lies are being said about a member, then that needs to stop. But I think where threads go terribly wrong is when others get involved and try to answer for the person being asked. I'm sure Becky can answer any question that someone has without any help from us. And only Becky should be answering these questions.

And no....I don't think the jokes should resume. I've seen too many poorly bred and unhealthy babies and unfortunately seen too many rescues from puppy mills to see any humor in questioning any and all breeders from time to time. Does anyone remember the whole Holly Bell incident?? She was considered at one time an ethical breeder from what I understand, but somewhere along the line something went terribly wrong. Thank God someone started to ask questions. Now just to make myself perfectly clear, I'm not taking any sides here or insinuating anything about Becky or anyone else because I don't have enough information to have an opinion. But we must never allow any breeder to get to a point where they are never questioned. It would just be wrong and unfair to the Malts.

At some point I do want to start another thread about what really constitutes a BYB because I'm not sure I agree with the general definition. But that will be for another time.


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## BrookeB676 (Oct 17, 2004)

> I really did intend to stay out of this particular topic. But I do feel I have something to say. I don't see anything in this thread that merits the typical "change the direction with humor" hi-jacking that I have so often appreciated and even initiated myself from time to time. Only once do I recall a member attacking someone else verbally by calling them stupid and an idiot and I'm sure that was done in the heat of the moment and normally she would not have responded that way. Other than that, I feel some legitimate questions have been asked. We all here can agree that we have the love of the breed and the betterment of the breed first and foremost a priority. I don't believe any breeder should ever get to the place where they are never questioned. Therefore, if someone has a legitimate question, let them ask. The person who is being asked the question can surely answer better than anyone else can for them. If false accusations and even lies are being said about a member, then that needs to stop. But I think where threads go terribly wrong is when others get involved and try to answer for the person being asked. I'm sure Becky can answer any question that someone has without any help from us. And only Becky should be answering these questions.
> 
> And no....I don't think the jokes should resume. I've seen too many poorly bred and unhealthy babies and unfortunately seen too many rescues from puppy mills to see any humor in questioning any and all breeders from time to time. Does anyone remember the whole Holly Bell incident?? She was considered at one time an ethical breeder from what I understand, but somewhere along the line something went terribly wrong. Thank God someone started to ask questions. Now just to make myself perfectly clear, I'm not taking any sides here or insinuating anything about Becky or anyone else because I don't have enough information to have an opinion. But we must never allow any breeder to get to a point where they are never questioned. It would just be wrong and unfair to the Malts.
> 
> At some point I do want to start another thread about what really constitutes a BYB because I'm not sure I agree with the general definition. But that will be for another time.[/B]


Great post, I am pleased to know that I am not alone in wanting to protect our breed, and to do this we have to question all breeders- nothing against Becky or any specific breeders for the matter (I happen to think Becky is very nice and believe she does love the breed, but that doesn't mean she is an ethical breeder). And, I agree that only Becky should be answering the questions that have been posed.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> But we must never allow any breeder to get to a point where they are never questioned. It would just be wrong and unfair to the Malts.[/B]



That's right. Also, member breeders, do bring up more information, to where they will be questioned, based on the information they have offered, or lack of.

Questions should be asked. And need to be addressed by the breeder. As I've stated, they are breeding, and selling, little lives.


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## babygirlmom (Jul 3, 2007)

Just read on another post...Baby Miracle did not make it. He died about an hour & a half ago. So sad! :bysmilie:


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=519348
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just want to say that if anybody has any questions about what I'm doing as far as showing/breeding/whatever, to please ask. 
I am not exempt from this either, just because I'm a member of spoiled maltese and have friends here.


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## totallytotontuffy (May 16, 2007)

> I really did intend to stay out of this particular topic. But I do feel I have something to say. I don't see anything in this thread that merits the typical "change the direction with humor" hi-jacking that I have so often appreciated and even initiated myself from time to time. Only once do I recall a member attacking someone else verbally by calling them stupid and an idiot and I'm sure that was done in the heat of the moment and normally she would not have responded that way. Other than that, I feel some legitimate questions have been asked. We all here can agree that we have the love of the breed and the betterment of the breed first and foremost a priority. I don't believe any breeder should ever get to the place where they are never questioned. Therefore, if someone has a legitimate question, let them ask. The person who is being asked the question can surely answer better than anyone else can for them. If false accusations and even lies are being said about a member, then that needs to stop. But I think where threads go terribly wrong is when others get involved and try to answer for the person being asked. I'm sure Becky can answer any question that someone has without any help from us. And only Becky should be answering these questions.
> 
> And no....I don't think the jokes should resume. I've seen too many poorly bred and unhealthy babies and unfortunately seen too many rescues from puppy mills to see any humor in questioning any and all breeders from time to time. Does anyone remember the whole Holly Bell incident?? She was considered at one time an ethical breeder from what I understand, but somewhere along the line something went terribly wrong. Thank God someone started to ask questions. Now just to make myself perfectly clear, I'm not taking any sides here or insinuating anything about Becky or anyone else because I don't have enough information to have an opinion. But we must never allow any breeder to get to a point where they are never questioned. It would just be wrong and unfair to the Malts.
> 
> At some point I do want to start another thread about what really constitutes a BYB because I'm not sure I agree with the general definition. But that will be for another time.[/B]


Crystal, thank you for stepping up to the plate and putting into words what I feel, but lack the ability to articulate. Jennifer Siliski (Hollybelle's) was Toto's breeder. I was taken in by her website which spoke of her severely disabled child and love for the breed as well as her ads in Dog Fancy. When her dogs were confiscated from her garage, I was appalled and heartsick to think that *my Toto *came from such a place. I flew to TN (as did Buttercup's mom) and helped care for them for a week. Some were worse than others. Perhaps at one time she was an ethical breeder. I can only think that greed got the best of her and that she got in over her head with *too many litters, and too many dams that should no longer have been used for breeding due to their age and health. * Maybe if people had started asking questions sooner, things wouldn't have gotten so bad. 

I am merely a pet owner who loves the Maltese breed. I find it difficult enough to share my time between Toto and Tuffy, worrying that one is hurt when I'm loving the other :wacko1: . I can only hope that ethical breeders are cautious to not take on more than they can handle and have sufficient help, hired or otherwise, to care for these precious creatures. I can only hope that they care enough about their breeding stock to not overbreed their dams. I can only hope that they breed for the betterment of the breed both for health and conformation. Breeders like Tonya help me keep the faith.


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

I agree that no breeder should be immune from questions and I simply wanted to say that I had not read this entire thread or related ones and was trying to lighten things up a bit.


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## BrookeB676 (Oct 17, 2004)

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Another good post! I guess I'm glad to know that some are looking out for our breed. I don't doubt that everyone here absolutely loves maltese, but it worries me that some have interpreted these types of posts as "cruel and disrespectful" towards Becky, when really that is absolutely not the intent. I believe everyone has said what they have to say in a pleasant and reasonable manner, and I don't think it should be a big deal to answer these questions. I really don't see how any of this is cruel or uncalled for, maybe because she is a member of the forum? As I mentioned earlier, I have no incentive other than the love of this breed to wonder about these things.


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## Critterkrazy (Jan 17, 2007)

I purposely stay out of this type of thread because I usually get myself into trouble but I have to say I agree that the questions asked are valid and most educated buyers would ask any reputable breeder the same questions in regards to the dogs in their breeding program. Can you honestly say that you would never question the bloodlines and/or history of the parents if you didn't recognize any of the dogs in the pedigrees? I know I would ask questions.

I am not taking sides and I am sure Becky is a very nice person who loves her dogs to pieces just like the rest of us. I'd like to ask a question if I may and I am sure Becky will not be offended by your answer. If Becky was not a SM member and you did not know her from the next breeder and someone else posted her website asking what everyone thought about her puppies, how would you answer the OP? Would you tell the OP you would buy a puppy from her or would you warn the OP about BYBs. To make it fair and not single out just one breeder, you can ask yourself this same question of any of the breeders who post on SM regardless if they are regulars or well known.

I understand that all breeders need to start somewhere but I do question how ethical it is to breed known puppy mill/BYB dogs/offspring in hopes that you get a show quality dog. I have gone through Becky's other posts and went to her website and I have the same questions going through my head. I have read so many threads on SM regarding the wish to shut down BYBs and puppy mills but just because it is someone you know doesn't make it right. Does it? Again, I am not accusing Becky. It could be your friend, your neighbor, your sister or mother for that matter. I just want everyone to stop and give this some real thought before attacking and name calling the couple of members who are concerned and have asked legitimate questions. There are probably many more here that share the same concerns as those who have come forth but stay out to avoid conflict. 

Someone said that Becky doesn't need to defend her breeding program. Answering the questions is not defending her program, it is answering questions of real concern that anyone one of us should ask any breeder before buying a puppy. The big difference here is that the well known breeders have bloodlines that speak for themselves

There, I have said my piece in a rambling sort of way. Becky, please don't take this as a personal attack. That is certainly not my intentions with this post.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> I purposely stay out of this type of thread because I usually get myself into trouble but I have to say I agree that the questions asked are valid and most educated buyers would ask any reputable breeder the same questions in regards to the dogs in their breeding program. Can you honestly say that you would never question the bloodlines and/or history of the parents if you didn't recognize any of the dogs in the pedigrees? I know I would ask questions.
> 
> I am not taking sides and I am sure Becky is a very nice person who loves her dogs to pieces just like the rest of us. I'd like to ask a question if I may and I am sure Becky will not be offended by your answer. If Becky was not a SM member and you did not know her from the next breeder and someone else posted her website asking what everyone thought about her puppies, how would you answer the OP? Would you tell the OP you would buy a puppy from her or would you warn the OP about BYBs. To make it fair and not single out just one breeder, you can ask yourself this same question of any of the breeders who post on SM regardless if they are regulars or well known.
> 
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[attachment=33293:goodpost.gif]


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

> I am not taking sides and I am sure Becky is a very nice person who loves her dogs to pieces just like the rest of us. I'd like to ask a question if I may and I am sure Becky will not be offended by your answer. *If Becky was not a SM member and you did not know her from the next breeder and someone else posted her website asking what everyone thought about her puppies, how would you answer the OP? Would you tell the OP you would buy a puppy from her or would you warn the OP about BYBs. To make it fair and not single out just one breeder, you can ask yourself this same question of any of the breeders who post on SM regardless if they are regulars or well known.*[/B]


This is partly what I meant last night. We post links to top tier breeders on this site all the time. Do we know their breeding stock? Just because their pedigrees have CH somewhere in their doesn't make them healthy and rule out any "genetic" defects. I don't know anything about Becky's breeding program except what she post on SM or her website. The same goes for the top tier breeders. We should question breeders equally. I have a friend that was going to buy a retiree from a top breeder here in FL. That breeder didn't remember how many litters that Female had and had to research her records and other discrepencies that my friend wasn't comfortable with. 

I personally don't think that you have to be in the show business to be a good and honest breeder who love and adore the Maltese breed and breeds to standards and to breed to better itself and wean out it's genetic defects. Not all non-show breeders are BYB. JMO


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## nikkivong (Aug 25, 2006)

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I completely agree.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

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That is what I meant when I put in my post "At some point I do want to start another thread about what really constitutes a BYB because I'm not sure I agree with the general definition that seems to be prevelant here. But that will be for another time." I have some concerns about some of these "top tier" breeders as well. But I really would greatly appreciate it if, when Becky is ready, that she will answer the questions that were asked.


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

> Crystal, thank you for stepping up to the plate and putting into words what I feel, but lack the ability to articulate. Jennifer Siliski (Hollybelle's) was Toto's breeder.[/B]



She was Cooper's breeder too. I thought she was totally legit. To find out a few months later she lost her mind. Thats when I lost a lot of faith in who is and isn't a "real breeder".


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## honeybun (Mar 6, 2007)

As far as buying from top tier breeders, my sister in 1991 bought a Australian Cattle dog from a top tier breeder who also I might add is a all breeds conformation judge. That dog did not live past two it suffered from epilepsy and hysteria. Aftrer they lost Bluey they bought another cattle dog from a breeder who was not a top tier and was on alimted paper register and the dog was healthy lived a long life till she was fourteen. All breeders even top tier have to start somewhere.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> All breeders even top tier have to start somewhere.[/B]


yes, they usually befriend a "top tier" breeder and are able to be mentored in the proper breeding practices and also start out with good breeding stock.


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

I'll be one happy camper when this thread dies!! :smpullhair:


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> I'll be one happy camper when this thread dies!! :smpullhair: [/B]


i'm sorry, i just couldn't help myself. :brownbag: you have my word i will no longer post in this thread. :thumbsup:


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## Max & Rocky (May 20, 2004)

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I'm sorry. Not trying to give you or anyone else a rough time. I'll just be glad when the thread dies!!


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