# Please correct me if in wrong because I'm getting angry!



## NYCHelloKitty (Jun 28, 2013)

Ok so I'm confused and googling as I write this. Mi-Cha "Mimi" is five months old, had her distemper, Influenza Hepatitis, Parainfluenza, and Parvo shot in January 2014. I got her in February , saw "my vet" to get checked up. On the 3rd then a follow up on the 13. Twitching started on the 9th. 

The vet surprised both of us with a shot. She wa playing with her and I was busy watching Mi-Cha's face. She never did tell me she was getting a shot as I thought she was up to date. 

Keep in mind I brought in her records, then I asked "what is that?" She said she needed another shot. I look at the receipt and it says distemper Combo a lepto this is in March. Now I'm googling and I don't think she was suppose to get that. She has been twitching still and I called the vet to ask when this is suppose to stop as it's bothering me still. I was told by the front desk Mi-Cha could be exposed to a toxin I'm using?! Like wtf?! What toxins? I have a three year old and home all the time. There are no toxins. So it had me wondering if maybe she was given an extra shot and that's why she's twitching. Originally I was told it could be a pinched nerve possibly and she was mentioning other things but she said since she's not in pain let her rest. I'm making another appt with another vet tomorrow. Thanks in advance.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Look if there is a Holistic Vet in your area. If there is - see them.

I hope the second opinion vet is better.... 

When Grace's vaccine issue happened, we changed vets. I made sure the new vet understood that under no circumstances were they to vaccinate or inject medicine to either one of my dogs without talking to me first. Luckily we see a holistic vet who only does the mandated rabies.

I would get some Thuja Forte by Heel ... It is a homeopathic remedy.... She can have 1/2 a tablet twice a day. It will help detoxify the vaccine toxins from her body.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

You live in NYC right? I don't believe there's a need to give Lepto here. My vet has never suggested it. How dare anyone give a shot without discussing it and informing you first!! I'd look for a new vet. There shouldn't be a surprise shot.


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## doggyluver5 (Feb 1, 2013)

Vaccinations have been my "thing" lately and I've been reading all the info I can find on it. I'm sure there has been lots posted on this forum (I'm sorry I've not kept up to date) but Lepto is a shot that should never be given to Maltese (there are other small dogs it is a no no for too). It can potentially and has killed Maltese and in most cases there isn't even Lepto around. Vaccinations for Lyme Disease is another one that shouldn't be given unless the vet can tell you a significant number of cases have been treated by him thereby proving that the shot is needed. Why are you giving influenza hepatitis or Para influenza. My own vet told me that it is the same as giving one of those worthless bordatella (kennel cough) shots as all of these are like our common cold or flu. Every year they urge humans to get flu shots but all they have done is make a shot that is effective to prevent last year's flu and by this year it will have mutated to another strain so it is a real hit or miss to know if it would help at all. Kennel cough is not life threatening and will go away by itself. For that matter why give any shots to our babies unless they are REALLY needed as the shot can be much more dangerous and in some cases fatal than the disease especially non life threatening diseases. Also, hang on to your hats for this one: Did you know that a Great Dane would receive the same amount of vaccine in a shot as my little three pound Annie? Why would that be. My vet can't answer that. His only response was that I needed to get that answer from the companies selling the vaccine. That would be a long wait the way they don't take responsibility for any of the vaccine problems. I'm not sure if you meant the vet gave this surprise shot on the 13th after your baby began twitching or if the twitching started before the shot on the 13th. I would go back to the vet and ask why she gave the Lepto to your baby as it No. 1 is probably not needed in your area anyway and your dog is a lapdog, not a dog out running around in the neighbourhood or No. 2 doesn't she know this shot is one that is not given to a Maltese and can result in death? Tell her she needs to get up to date on her info. Then tell her shame on her….does she have to make her money on shots that "could" kill a dog. The front desk is already divorcing the clinic from any responsibility!! Shame on them too!! Once you have finished with all these puppy shots and have had a one year booster for Parvo/distempter and Rabies (all I need around here and probably that is the case for a lot of you on the forum) I would seriously consider not vaccinating for years as once immunity has happened it will stay for probably a lifetime (think about human babies….are we always vaccinating them when they get older?). You can always find out if they still have immunity by doing titre shots. The price to have them done is coming way down and more and more vets will be jumping on this bandwagon when their clients start refusing all the vaccinations. Serious things like vaccinosis can happen hours, days, weeks and months or even years from when the vaccine was given. My old Lab was 12 when I had to put her down. We faithfully gave her all the vaccines EVERY year till then. She died from autoimmune disease and I feel like crying when I thought I was doing the best for her but actually I was slowly killing her. Please find out all the info you can on vaccinations (if the shot that is affecting her now was the one with the combo including Lepto I would suspect that is the culprit. Do not let your vet try to tell you anything else.) It is time people became aware of the big money grab that supposedly caring vets and other dog care people are involved in. Dog food is another big grab too and it is killing our dogs. A good start is to go to: www.dogs4dogs.com. I just got the book she has written (she owns two Maltese and one of them is writing the book from his point of view so it is not just a lot of heavy reading). The book is Scared Poopless. Your baby will be with you a long time so you are lucky you are finding out all this when she is a baby so you can do everything the right way instead of having to "change horses mid stream" like a lot of us! O, yes, when you find a good vet have them write on your chart that NOTHING is to be done without your consent and tell them you want any and all procedures fully explained to you with all the pros and cons. My vet and I have lovely conversations and I'm sure he has learned a lot about Maltese in particular as I've picked up a lot of things from him (he has two yorkies!) Good luck and please get back to us about how Mimi is doing.


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

I'm a little confused. Not sure I follow. Could you tell us the timeline for the twitching and all the vaccines? If I'm getting it right, the twitching was happening before the vaccine shot? 

Here's the vaccine protocol most of us follow on SM -
http://drjeandoddspethealthresource...1640/dodds-dog-vaccination-protocol-2013-2014

Keep in mind a lot of vaccines are optional based on where you live. I live in LA and don't give mine lepto.

Is this twitching different from her shaking?

I'm sorry your vet did that. It seems very unethical and unprofessional. 


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## mylittleleo (Jan 23, 2014)

I'm a first time dog owner and definitely no expert.. But one thing my breeder was sure to inform me of was that Leo did not need and should not get a lepto shot. I don't know the specifics of why, but as mentioned above, something about that shot is dangerous to this small breed.

Personally, I would take Mimi and her complete medical history to another vet for a second opinion and diagnosis.


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## Ann Mother (Dec 18, 2013)

Yes my vet said no lepto also in fact on receipt it said in capital letters no lepto after DA2PP. 


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## mss (Mar 1, 2006)

There have been a lot of posts on Spoiled Maltese about leptospirosis--and other vaccines. Leptospirosis, in particular, is a controversial topic. It might be useful for newer members to read some of the discussions that are already on the site. 

Some of us do, in fact, vaccinate our dogs for leptospirosis. It occurs in the suburbs and cities, too. I live in Sacramento, and a little Maltese I was fostering contracted leptospirosis, evidently in my yard from a wild animal, maybe a raccoon. Since then, I had her and another little Maltese vaccinated for it, with no reaction, and my slightly larger dogs, too. My vets had urged me to vaccinate the dogs, and it was because they were concerned about the dog, not for the few extra dollars the vaccine cost. They made a lot more money treating the poor sick dog for the disease!

But I can't speak about what the protocols are for puppies, because I have had only adult dogs in about 17 years. 

Anyway, I hope your dog gets better and that you discuss the questions about what happened and what to do in the future, with your current vet and any new vet you might choose to go to. :grouphug:


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## NYCHelloKitty (Jun 28, 2013)

I will be taking her to another vet or a different vet in the practice. The one I took my other dog to there before (three vets in the practice) was out. I thought same establishment same type of service. Her twitching happened a few days after she yanked her paw from me, but I did want to rule out possible overdose. I was told it could be a pinched nerve so until yesterday I was not thinking about the shot until the office mentioned toxicity. They told me wait another week and oh back if it's still happening. So in short (just woke up and groggy) the twitching happened five days after my vet gave her the combo. So it could be coincidental just not sure. I'm trying to see all possibilities. As far as her shaking when cold that for the most part has subsided. It's been getting warmer these days. So now I'm watching this paw situation more closely.


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## NYCHelloKitty (Jun 28, 2013)

Doggyluver I'm going to reread your in tire post. Give me a minute. 

Yea, I'm in NYC.


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## NYCHelloKitty (Jun 28, 2013)

doggyluver5 said:


> Vaccinations have been my "thing" lately and I've been reading all the info I can find on it. I'm sure there has been lots posted on this forum (I'm sorry I've not kept up to date) but Lepto is a shot that should never be given to Maltese (there are other small dogs it is a no no for too). It can potentially and has killed Maltese and in most cases there isn't even Lepto around. Vaccinations for Lyme Disease is another one that shouldn't be given unless the vet can tell you a significant number of cases have been treated by him thereby proving that the shot is needed. Why are you giving influenza hepatitis or Para influenza. My own vet told me that it is the same as giving one of those worthless bordatella (kennel cough) shots as all of these are like our common cold or flu. Every year they urge humans to get flu shots but all they have done is make a shot that is effective to prevent last year's flu and by this year it will have mutated to another strain so it is a real hit or miss to know if it would help at all. Kennel cough is not life threatening and will go away by itself. For that matter why give any shots to our babies unless they are REALLY needed as the shot can be much more dangerous and in some cases fatal than the disease especially non life threatening diseases. Also, hang on to your hats for this one: Did you know that a Great Dane would receive the same amount of vaccine in a shot as my little three pound Annie? Why would that be. My vet can't answer that. His only response was that I needed to get that answer from the companies selling the vaccine. That would be a long wait the way they don't take responsibility for any of the vaccine problems. I'm not sure if you meant the vet gave this surprise shot on the 13th after your baby began twitching or if the twitching started before the shot on the 13th. I would go back to the vet and ask why she gave the Lepto to your baby as it No. 1 is probably not needed in your area anyway and your dog is a lapdog, not a dog out running around in the neighbourhood or No. 2 doesn't she know this shot is one that is not given to a Maltese and can result in death? Tell her she needs to get up to date on her info. Then tell her shame on her….does she have to make her money on shots that "could" kill a dog. The front desk is already divorcing the clinic from any responsibility!! Shame on them too!! Once you have finished with all these puppy shots and have had a one year booster for Parvo/distempter and Rabies (all I need around here and probably that is the case for a lot of you on the forum) I would seriously consider not vaccinating for years as once immunity has happened it will stay for probably a lifetime (think about human babies….are we always vaccinating them when they get older?). You can always find out if they still have immunity by doing titre shots. The price to have them done is coming way down and more and more vets will be jumping on this bandwagon when their clients start refusing all the vaccinations. Serious things like vaccinosis can happen hours, days, weeks and months or even years from when the vaccine was given. My old Lab was 12 when I had to put her down. We faithfully gave her all the vaccines EVERY year till then. She died from autoimmune disease and I feel like crying when I thought I was doing the best for her but actually I was slowly killing her. Please find out all the info you can on vaccinations (if the shot that is affecting her now was the one with the combo including Lepto I would suspect that is the culprit. Do not let your vet try to tell you anything else.) It is time people became aware of the big money grab that supposedly caring vets and other dog care people are involved in. Dog food is another big grab too and it is killing our dogs. A good start is to go to: Top Natural Holistic Dog Health Care Book: Multiple Award Winner. I just got the book she has written (she owns two Maltese and one of them is writing the book from his point of view so it is not just a lot of heavy reading). The book is Scared Poopless. Your baby will be with you a long time so you are lucky you are finding out all this when she is a baby so you can do everything the right way instead of having to "change horses mid stream" like a lot of us! O, yes, when you find a good vet have them write on your chart that NOTHING is to be done without your consent and tell them you want any and all procedures fully explained to you with all the pros and cons. My vet and I have lovely conversations and I'm sure he has learned a lot about Maltese in particular as I've picked up a lot of things from him (he has two yorkies!) Good luck and please get back to us about how Mimi is doing.


Ok a it reread it. She gave Mimi the distemper combo on the 3rd. The follow up was the 13th regarding checking on her paw as well as her knees since she forgot too on the 3rd. Mimi won't be getting anymore shots for awhile except for her rabies on three years. From my breeder friends understanding she wasn't suppose to get the shot from my vet (now ex-vet) is there a way to see if it's a sprain/strain pinched nerve accurately? The vet did give her a once over on the 13th have her some anti inflammitory's and recommended rest. Mimi's not in pain but the twitching seems annoying to her as I'm sure it would annoy me if I were her.


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## mdbflorida (Feb 28, 2013)

I live in Florida and do not give the lepto. It is not a mandatory shot in the states. After reading some much about the Lepto, I chose not to give. I also followed everyone's advice on here and would not give all the shots at the same time, would pace them out and my vet is okay with that.


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

NYCHelloKitty said:


> Ok a it reread it. She gave Mimi the distemper combo on the 3rd. The follow up was the 13th regarding checking on her paw as well as her knees since she forgot too on the 3rd. Mimi won't be getting anymore shots for awhile except for her rabies on three years. From my breeder friends understanding she wasn't suppose to get the shot from my vet (now ex-vet) is there a way to see if it's a sprain/strain pinched nerve accurately? The vet did give her a once over on the 13th have her some anti inflammitory's and recommended rest. Mimi's not in pain but the twitching seems annoying to her as I'm sure it would annoy me if I were her.



Mimi needs the one year rabies shot. You can get the three year only next year. Atleast that's the CA law. Hopefully someone will correct me if that's wrong. 

I've read here on SM that it's basically the same vaccine with different labels. But nevertheless since Mimi will require another rabies vaccine next year by law anyway, might be better to get the 1yr now. 

Again, I could be wrong. But that's just from my understanding of how this works. 


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## NYCHelloKitty (Jun 28, 2013)

Mimi got her rabies shot already.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

NYCHelloKitty said:


> Mimi got her rabies shot already.




I would get some Thuja Forte.... seriously. And maybe even some milk thistle.

With all those vaccines in her short 5 months... she is probably having issues detoxing all the poison.


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## NYCHelloKitty (Jun 28, 2013)

Ok I just went on amazon and it's not many thuja's. Does the organic store typically sell it? I'm going to check on the milk thistle.


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## Chardy (Oct 30, 2008)

NYCHelloKitty said:


> Mimi got her rabies shot already.


I feel so badly for you ! You have spent so much time preparing for this sweet little girl of yours-- 

They should not get rabies until they are at least 20 weeks old. You are going to have to work hard getting her immune system back to snuff. I would try and call a holsitic vet close to you and let them help you with detoxification or there a many on line that will help you with this that you can consult with and get the products you need. 

Dr Falkner in Austin TX (google him) 

or Dr Dan 

Beaver Animal Clinic - Holistic and conventional vet care for cats, dogs, reptiles, guinea pigs, ferrets, chinchillas, hamsters at Beaver Animal Clinic, located in Beaver, Pennsylvania (PA). Acupuncture and other alternative veterinary treatments pro

Hope this helps


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## eiksaa (Jun 8, 2012)

NYCHelloKitty said:


> Mimi got her rabies shot already.



So when you say Mimi won't be getting anything for a while except for her 3 yr rabies, you were talking about next year?


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## NYCHelloKitty (Jun 28, 2013)

I'm going to look into the holistic vet. As far as shots I think I'm going to follow the above mentioned protocol.


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## lydiatug (Feb 21, 2012)

Infuriating for sure...hoping you find a holistic vet (we have none here any longer, ours moved out of state). Georgie still has the lump where the rabies vaccine was given and has changed very little in size, so we'll probably be going into surgery next month  This is the 3rd dog I've had in the last 14 years and all have had some sort of reaction to rabies, one almost lethal. I hope your baby improves and you give that vet a piece of your mind...totally unethical.


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## NYCHelloKitty (Jun 28, 2013)

I found a hollistic vet (I'm going to call them to be sure) what should I expect?


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## Chardy (Oct 30, 2008)

I would first do some research on what you want to do. 

Check out Dr Peter Dobias website. He has a lot on there about rabies and does not use thuja for rabies. I think he suggests lyssin? sp? I don't have time to look it up but it's on his website. A good holistic vet will probably have you start a "Standard Process" purification" glandular protocol, and I would also check out Standards Process website first in regards to what it details. 

My holistic vet is pro raw feeding.. but does not diss a good quality home cooked diet- Not sure what you are feeding but I am not getting into that on this forum. Everyone has to figure out for themselves what they think is best and go with your own heart on that subject. 

It is nice to have a good holistic vet in your back pocket. 

Good Luck


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## NYCHelloKitty (Jun 28, 2013)

lydiatug said:


> Infuriating for sure...hoping you find a holistic vet (we have none here any longer, ours moved out of state). Georgie still has the lump where the rabies vaccine was given and has changed very little in size, so we'll probably be going into surgery next month  This is the 3rd dog I've had in the last 14 years and all have had some sort of reaction to rabies, one almost lethal. I hope your baby improves and you give that vet a piece of your mind...totally unethical.


Thank you for the well wishes. Thank you all.


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## NYCHelloKitty (Jun 28, 2013)

Chardy said:


> I would first do some research on what you want to do.
> 
> Check out Dr Peter Dobias website. He has a lot on there about rabies and does not use thuja for rabies. I think he suggests lyssin? sp? I don't have time to look it up but it's on his website. A good holistic vet will probably have you start a "Standard Process" purification" glandular protocol, and I would also check out Standards Process website first in regards to what it details.
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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## BeautifulMaltese (Dec 4, 2013)

:angry: That would make me extremely angry and very concerned. Any vet that didn't discuss with the owner medications or vaccinations before administering should be reported. I would take that pup to another vet asap.


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## NYCHelloKitty (Jun 28, 2013)

Spoke too soon about the shivering. I called the vet they weren't hollistic.


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## NYCHelloKitty (Jun 28, 2013)

I just emailed them a nice lengthy emailed sharing with them my discontent. I won't be going back there.


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## Chardy (Oct 30, 2008)

Marty Goldstein is one of the most sought after holistic vets in the US. Smithridge... Right by you in NYC.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Chardy said:


> Marty Goldstein is one of the most sought after holistic vets in the US. Smithridge... Right by you in NYC.


Unfortunately, Smithridge wouldn't be considered right near us. Would take 45 minutes to an hour to get there from the city with no traffic at all. Don't know if OP has a car. There's a holistic vet practice that I bookmarked a while back. Think one vet was on tv talking about holistic alternatives. It's Home - NY, Holistic, Veterinarian, Located, in, New, York, City, and, New, Jersey located downtown in Manhattan. I have no idea at all how they are having never gone to them but you can look around on the web for reviews and talk to them and see if they're a good fit.


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

I found an alcohol free milk thistle tincture at Sprouts (a health/farmers market).... It was their store brand.

I see it's hard to find the Thuja. So here are some links to ideas for detoxing:

Does Your Pet Need a Natural Detox Program?

Liver Detoxification for Dogs and Cats


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

Try not to worry too much. MiMi's breeder advised me not to get lepto and to space the vaccines. However, before I had her, and then this forum to guide me, I actually got five-ways for all my other dogs. None of them suffered for it. I wish your baby will suffer no adverse side-affects...and I hope you will not suffer guilt. It does make me angry that your vet injected your pet without prior approval from you. I would write a letter of complaint to the head of the practice...at least.


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## 4furkidsmom (Nov 29, 2009)

Yes, I definitely would be angry and I would express it directly in front of my vet if that ever happened to me. And I definitely would not pay the vet bill. Kudos to Doggielover5, I am so in agreement with everything you expressed and shared with the forum. I learned from heartbreaking personal experience and vast amounts of reading and research the harm that the past and current vaccination protocol causes. I adopted my first dog ever, a maltese almost 13 years ago and since then have adopted two more puppies and five rescues. Two of my dogs contacted autoimmune hemolytic anemia after Rabies vaccination. One of whom had a 50/50 chance of surviving and thankfully survived ($2,500 medical bills) My much smaller 4 pound Annie didn't survive. Two other dogs developed lumps on the site of vaccination. One of whom had to have surgery as the lump grew (he was just a four month old puppy at the time). I could go on and on, however doggielover5 said it well.


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## lydiatug (Feb 21, 2012)

Don't forget to support and promote the small vaccine study...promo going on starting the 23rd for matching donations! See thread below...

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/52-maltese-health-behavior/193378-small-breed-vaccine-study.html


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

If your pup had a DHPP in Jan, she did need additional boosters. 2 vaccines given 3 weeks apart would offer great immunity. 

However, twitching is NOT normal and needs to be addressed by a veterinarian immediately. If the dog does not do it all of the time, take a video and present it to the vet. I would have my pup in the vet immediately if it had continued twitching.


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## NYCHelloKitty (Jun 28, 2013)

Just an update, the neurologist said she had Myclonus most likely due to the vaccine. She still twitches. Just thought I'd update you all.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

NYCHelloKitty said:


> Just an update, the neurologist said she had Myclonus most likely due to the vaccine. She still twitches. Just thought I'd update you all.


I'm sorry you're going through this!


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

NYCHelloKitty said:


> Just an update, the neurologist said she had Myclonus most likely due to the vaccine. She still twitches. Just thought I'd update you all.


I am so sorry that this happened to Mimi. Vaccines are so scary.

I hope that Mimi is doing okay.


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