# Today's Pet store visit



## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

On my way home from work today, I stopped at the local Pet store because I plan to get a Maltese sometime in the next few months and I am starting to purchase supplies in anticipation for the day he or her comes home. I am not going to give the name of the chain I visited, but it is one that houses live puppies in the little wire cages with the glass window so the visitors can stare at them.

I have only been to one such store in my life and until recently didn't know they existed. This particular store had a maltese, and even though I know better than to buy a dog from a commercial pet store, I asked to play with the maltese in one of their "puppy socialization rooms" (which is just a little cubby with a bench and a gate that latches shut so the pup can't get out). I felt sorry for all of the pups there, but I felt the worst for this male maltese.

While all the other animals had been there for a matter of weeks, the high school girl who was working explained to me that this little guy was FIVE months old and had been there for most of those five months! He was soooooooo playful and overjoyed to have my attention. I swear he never stoppped moving the whole half hour I played with him. He let me hold him towards the end without squirming but I noticed that he was shaking. I put him down and the shaking stopped. I picked him back up and cuddled him and the shaking started again. I took that as a sign he was not used to humans holding him and he was a bit frightened, but not frightened enough to make any attempt to get away.

Anyhow, I felt so bad for this guy. His hair had some palpable mats and it was obvious he hadn't been bathed in a while as his hair was a bit crimped (Before I left, they gave him a bath at my request and after he was blow dried his hair was straight). He had the worst tear stains I had ever seen. He smelled terribly. He had chunks of dried poop stuck to his hair around his rear end. It's like every bad "neglectful" appearance I have ever read about here, this poor guy had every single sign!

The worst thing was that, even though he didn't bark or cry the entire time I was at the store, or while I was playing with him, he started to cry very loudly when the employee took him away from me and back into the "cage." I wanted to take him home with me SO badly. I want a Maltese so badly and this guy needed me, but I didn't buy him because I knew that there would just be a new one to take his place once someone bought him.

But I am worried about him still. The employee commented that she had never seen a Maltese stay that long without being sold. He will be six months old in a few weeks. They have already lowered his price significantly because he didn't sell at original price. What happens if he hasn't been sold in a few more weeks and they keep lowering his price? Will they dump him on the street? Will he go to a kill shelter? I am worried they won't neuter him and he will go to a backyard breeder once the price has been lowered enough.

The most amazing thing of all is that this guy was AKC registered. I didn't think that AKC registered dogs went to pet stores. Could his papers be faked?

Part of me really wants to go back there tomorrow and take him home to prevent him from going to a bad home, but everything I know is against that. And I admit that a selfish part of me also wants to wait and buy a pup from a small hobby breeder who raised the pup in their home and let the pup be properly socialized with other littermates and its mother, and not have to worry about genetic diseases or luxating patellas. I also don't like the fact that the male maltese in the pet store has been forced to eliminate in his wire crate for five months. I am really at a crossroads. However, I have my husband who put his foot down and refuses to pay that kind of money for a pet store animal.

I don't know what my point is. I guess I just wanted to share. I hope I posted this in the right section. If I put it in the wrong forum, please feel free to move it to the correct forum and let me know for future reference where it belongs. Thank you.


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## ddarlingfam (Mar 30, 2006)

If he has been there for 5 months I bet you could get them to drastically lower their price. You would be saving him from possibly being sent back to were ever he came from. You can still always get another malt and have two. It is your decision if you want to take on the responsibilty of a petmill puppy. However if you can get the store to lower the price even more, you would have a puppy who truly understands how much you love him. 

JMO
Amber


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

> If he has been there for 5 months I bet you could get them to drastically lower their price. You would be saving him from possibly being sent back to were ever he came from. You can still always get another malt and have two. It is your decision if you want to take on the responsibilty of a petmill puppy. However if you can get the store to lower the price even more, you would have a puppy who truly understands how much you love him.
> 
> JMO
> Amber[/B]


I am definitely willing to take on the responsibility of a petmill puppy. And I don't want him going back to wherever he came from. I want him to be held and loved and played with and not have to go to the bathroom in his cage. 

I am torn between the notion that I would be supporting a puppymill and the idea that he could go to someone who has no clue how to care for a puppymill dog (which is your average pet store purchaser) or worse, the idea of him going BACK to the puppymill.

And I am personally not concerned about the money. I won't starve if I spend the $1150 they are asking, but I might end up sleeping on the couch with the dog for a few nights until hubby calms down!


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## Cindy1981 (Apr 24, 2006)

Wow I just went throught this with my boyfriend. Three days after I brought home my Lacey He brought Daisy home from Petland. He had gone to the petstore with a friend of his to look at a dog for his friend. He saw Daisy and asked to see her. They too took her to a play room where He could visit with her. He said she played with a Duck squeaky toy and rana round like crazy and play growled at the toy. When His friend was ready Dan said he handed Daisy back to them and she started to whimper. He said He then told the Lady He would take her.

They took her in the back and cleaned her up while Dan filled out her paperwork. Petland gave him a crate for free with her purchase. He said they brought her out one time while cleaning her and asked what color bows he wanted and how many. He told them put two pink Bows in her hair because that's my favorite color. Then he brought her home. I can still remember the look on his face as he walked through the door with her. After a short argument I got over it and just accepted it. What scared me is i know of the diseases that get passed throught the petstore and even if she didn't have anoything she could still be a carrier and pass it to Lacey whom only had one set of Vaccinations.

A couple days later I took Daisy to the their Vet for a check up. I was unimpressed with this guy to say the least. I wanted m Chihuahua to get one more set of Shots so I took her along as well. I had to ask this vet for everything, Weight them, how does the chest sound, ears, etc. I will never take another dog back to that Vet.

So far we have been lucky with Daisy. That is a rarity, with a petstore dog. She has seemed to be pretty healthy and very friendily with anyone whom wants to hold her except the people at the petstore. After the Vet appointment I stopped by the petstore to pick up Daisy's paperwork and I had both Daisy and Tinkerbell with me. Neither of them would let any of the workers touch them. Daisy has also done great with going on Potty pads..However she has three other dogs showing her that is what we do around here. I think the other three pretty much taught her that.

We know that it is very possible that Daisy may have health problems and it may be very expensive to care for them but, we accept that. I still hate petstores and wouldn't get another from a petstore but we love Daisy and now couldn't imagine her being in that store waiting for a home, even though I am sure another has taken her place. As a matter of fact when I went to get her papers they had three more really little maltese and dan said Daisy was the only one when he bought her. 

If you have to go and get this boy, 1st make sure you can take care of his needs should he have serious medical issue, Try to talk them down...I have heard of people getting dogs from them for 200.00 which is the normal deposit they get from the breeder or at the least make them throw in some extras for you. Don't trust their vet the guy they sent me too was a quack if I ever saw one. 

I wouldn't trade Daisy just where she came from.


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## ddarlingfam (Mar 30, 2006)

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I understand not supporting Puppymills. I however look at it as this little guy needs a home and it's not his fault how irresponsible humans are. If you go back to get him, make them lower the price, it would be sad to pay the 1150 for him now and then have vet bills on top of that. Good luck with whatever choice you make. Go with what your heart tells you.


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## Cindy1981 (Apr 24, 2006)

I'm sure if you felt really strongly about the dog, Hubby would get over it...I did. I have heard if the store doesn't sell them they go back to the breeder.


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## Skippy4Us (Feb 20, 2006)

Well Our Skippy was a Pet store rescue.I don't know much about where he came from but what I do know is that he was in a pet store for so long that he wasn't considered desirable so he was sent to a shelter. He had some problems in the beginning with peeing, seemed as though he went about 15-20 times a day. Crate training was close to impossible since he spent his whole life doign everything in that crate. I am so glad that I found this site because someone suggested a pen and it worked. Now he's trained on wee wee pads.He's doing better now although there are times that he can get aggressive with my kids. I think he's trying to show dominance over them..I wish all pet stores would sell only supplies and not Puppies. But that's not going to stop any time soon and these puppies need love too. I have friends who have purchased dogs from Puppy stores and from breeders and even with the latter there is no guarantee that the dog will not have a disease. Dogs from Puppy stores are more prone to ear mites and fleas than one from a breeder but I get so sad when i think of these puppies who reach 4 months and then nobody wants them. If it makes you feel btter why not ask them to let you have the dog seen by a vet before you purchase him..and not the vet the store uses. Good Luck!


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

Poor little guy! This is why I stay away from the pet stores that sell pets. They are all so helpless looking and so darn cute. Let us know what you decide to do.


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

Good luck to you with whatever you decide. I know it must be hard to not worry about that little guy you saw at the pet store. I feel for you.

That is somewhat how we got Sir Micro. Although he was not in a "pet store" like you mentioned, his breeder has a store where she "show cases" her doggies. When my daughter and I went in, "just to look" (YEAH RIGHT) her assistant asked us about the type of dog we were interested in. I told her a small one that was a bit reserved. HAHAHHAA we got that for sure. She took us to a wire crate that had 3 Malts in it, one clearly MUCH smaller then the other two and when she reached into the crate to get the smaller one out he crowded back into a corner behind the two larger Malts. Hmmm I could have said no thanks then but, this was my daughter's deal. So, anyway we sat on the floor mostly, playing with him and my daughter fell in love. He was almost 8 months and still there, WHY? We were told that the reason he was still there was because the breeder WAS going to keep him but his bite didn't turn out correct. So she just had put him up for sale. Ok whatever. I guess all that matters is that, my daughter loves him to bits and is still, to this day, happy about picking him out. She is a great "Mommy" to him and it's heartwarming to watch her with him. And in my heart I know that Sir Micro does have he best life he could ever have.









Good luck!
Melanie



> Well Our Skippy was a Pet store rescue.I don't know much about where he came from but what I do know is that he was in a pet store for so long that he wasn't considered desirable so he was sent to a shelter. He had some problems in the beginning with peeing, seemed as though he went about 15-20 times a day. Crate training was close to impossible since he spent his whole life doign everything in that crate. I am so glad that I found this site because someone suggested a pen and it worked. Now he's trained on wee wee pads.He's doing better now although there are times that he can get aggressive with my kids. I think he's trying to show dominance over them..I wish all pet stores would sell only supplies and not Puppies. But that's not going to stop any time soon and these puppies need love too. I have friends who have purchased dogs from Puppy stores and from breeders and even with the latter there is no guarantee that the dog will not have a disease. Dogs from Puppy stores are more prone to ear mites and fleas than one from a breeder but I get so sad when i think of these puppies who reach 4 months and then nobody wants them. If it makes you feel btter why not ask them to let you have the dog seen by a vet before you purchase him..and not the vet the store uses. Good Luck![/B]


I am so glad to hear that things with Skippy are going well. Love and more love and time are our friends as far as teaching animals what we want from them.

enJOY!
Melanie


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## Kissi's Mom (Apr 21, 2006)

> On my way home from work today, I stopped at the local Pet store because I plan to get a Maltese sometime in the next few months and I am starting to purchase supplies in anticipation for the day he or her comes home. I am not going to give the name of the chain I visited, but it is one that houses live puppies in the little wire cages with the glass window so the visitors can stare at them.
> 
> I have only been to one such store in my life and until recently didn't know they existed. This particular store had a maltese, and even though I know better than to buy a dog from a commercial pet store, I asked to play with the maltese in one of their "puppy socialization rooms" (which is just a little cubby with a bench and a gate that latches shut so the pup can't get out). I felt sorry for all of the pups there, but I felt the worst for this male maltese.
> 
> ...


I probably should not send this reply...but this is a subject I have a really hard time with. We owned a pet store...we did NOT sell puppies...we sold supplies...we had people coming in everyday asking us to "order" them a puppy. We spent a good portion of our time in the store trying to educate customers why we did not order puppies and why they did not want to purchase a pup from ANY pet store...we kept the phone number for our local kennel club breeder referral list posted for anyone interested as well as the number for the local shelter. I am not saying that you can never get a healthy pup from a pet store because you can but the odds are against it... we all know where they come from...regardless of what that store owner tells you...and yes pet store pups are more often than not AKC registered. One of the biggest puppy brokers in the USA is always advertising they sell AKC pups and I have seen them listed as an AKC supporter (???) ...I guess that old addage "money talks" still holds true. Often times if a puppy is left in a store too long the store owner will reduce the price (sometimes drastically) because the longer that pup stays in the store the more money that owner is losing. That store owner makes most of his money off of the supplies you buy for the pup you purchase. Since we closed our store we have been traveling 45 min. to another locally owned store to buy food etc and two weeks ago when we went in they had two little pups in a plexiglass box at the front of the store...in big bold letters on the side of the glass was a sign that read "we do not support puppymills our pups come from USDA breeders only" well the average reputable breeder is not USDA certified (at least not in our state) and if they were they wouldn't sell their pups to a pet store....needless to say we will not be supporting that store any longer. 
All that being said...every living creature deserves to be loved (except puppymillers & their distributors!) so if you do decide to rescue this little baby...have him checked out by your vet...know what you are getting into...Hopefully you will be lucky and so will he...look at his paperwork...a lot of stores promise you a "certificate" implying that they are "registered" and sometimes when you actually look at the paperwork that cert. says they have been seen by a vet and that is pretty much it (this may give you leverage as far as price). There are two major brokers in the US that many pet stores use and the company names both begin with an " H". Good luck to you in making your decision. I am sorry this is so long but I hope maybe this info will help you somehow.
Kissi's Mom


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## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

I don't go into petstores anymore that sell puppies.I know if I did & saw a sweet little Maltese,I would walk out the door with it.I have the strength not to go in the stores but not the strength nor the heart







to turn away from a needy one.I know several people who have gotten their puppies from petstores & none of them have had any health problems so I know that wouldn't deter me.Not having a champion bloodline would not matter in the least to me either.My only reason for not going into those petstores is the connection to puppymills & it's also the reason I would find myself rescueing the poor little Malt babies.They deserve a loving home too.


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## Cindy1981 (Apr 24, 2006)

Another thing you can do is find out the breeder's information and then log on to nopuppymills.com and fill out the questionaire. They will send youa report about the breeder including if any known people have had sick puppies from them, their suspensions, etc.

I did this with Daisy and found out she came from Montana. I bought her in Ohio. Her breeder had 17 dogs at the last inspection.


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## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

I would be the same as you!









Fortunatly we do not have puppies/cats for sale in our big pet shops.

Keep us up to date on what you decide.


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## Luvmalts<3 (Feb 12, 2006)

It depends on you really, if you'll feel really really bad about leaving him, then maybe you should get him. Most petstore puppys that don't sell go back to the breeders and are either bred again, or sold to labs. Some are put in (kill) shelters also. Like I said, if leaving him is something that will cause you a lot of pain, then just go get the puppy lol. You can also try to get them to lower the price so they don't make as much of a profit. I hate puppy mills, and I hate the people that can treat dogs like livestock....it's just not right.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

Not only would I not buy this pup at the inflated price, but I would not purchase anything from this store. When you go in and buy dog food and supplies, you are helping keep places like this in business.

It's just not pet stores I would avoid in purchasing a pup. If I were in the market for a new pup for show or to add to my breeding program (I don't need anymore so have no plans to do so), I would avoid any breeder I know who keeps them stacked in crates in their garage or outbuilding, regardless of the pedigree or their reputation.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

I feel terrible. I don't know what I would do..










Go with ur heart!!

Andrea~


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## Terri (Jan 26, 2005)

Sounds to me like you have already made a decision you just need confirmation! Go for it! That baby needs your love!


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

$1150! That's crazy! That's not reduced drastically, that's a regular pet store price for a Maltese! They are pulling at your heart strings trying to get you to buy him. If he has been there for 5 months then the price would be down to at least $800 and even that's too high. 
I remember a pet store in one of or malls, you could see the pups just walking by the store and I saw two HUGE Malt pups sharing one cage. They were at least 10-13 lbs and the pet store clerk said they were 5 months old. I saw them again a few weeks later still there and still with the same over priced price tag. They were over $1,000 and their price never changed. One day they weren't there anymore, I bet they got sent back or sent to a shelter. Bottom line for them is profit. They will lie through their teeth to sell you a pup. Don't fall for it. $1150 is way over priced even for a 8 week old Maltese puppy mill pup. Don't do it. I wouldn't even buy a thing from them. Any money you spend there is supporting them. Every penny you spend there is keeping them in business and keeping those puppy mills in business. 
If you do end up going back (and I recommend you don't) at least ask a few questions before you decide. At the same time remember that they will lie to you if they have to. First ask them how long they keep a puppy that doesn't sell. If they have had these guys for 5 months then I am guessing they keep them for a long time, thinking they will sell at their original price. Then ask how much that pup was when they first got him in. They probably got him when he was 6 weeks old. Then ask them what they do with the pups that aren't sold. Then ask them if they get their money back (if they say they send it back to the "breeder"). Then ask them if you could take the puppy to your vet and have him checked out before you buy him. They might ask to hold your credit card or they might just laugh you out of the store. If they let you go to your vet take him to get checked out and see if there's anything wrong with him. If there is, walk away (after you bring him back to the store of course). If there isn't then ask them if they would be willing to drop the price to $500. If they say no walk away. Then go back later and ask if they would drop the price to $600. I would not pay more than $800 because even at $800 they are making a profit, believe it or not. 
This might or might not work but at least you are getting educated about the dog and you are not supporting puppy mills.


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## Gregswife (Mar 6, 2006)

It sounds like you have already formed a bond with this little guy. Yes, he more than likely came from a puppy mill and for some reason he has not sold - I would think that may be because of the overly inflated price. But should he be allowed to suffer because of where he came from when you already have a connection with him and would finally give him the love that he so deserves. I would not pay what they are asking. If you can get them down to a price that would cut into the "breeders" profits, I would do that after insuring that he is in a healthy state. I know that we should not support puppy mills or backyard breeders, but it seems if his future is in jeopardy, this would be more of a rescue. Go with your heart - it will tell you what is the best thing for you to do. I was at the mall recently and they had 2 maltese in the window, 10 weeks old and they were $1,000 each. The petstore you were in has not reduced the price due to the age. I would offer them the $500 and see what they say. i would certainly tell them my reasons for offering only that amount. Please keep us posted.


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## Skippy4Us (Feb 20, 2006)

Thank You Melanie!! It does take lots of patience but he's worth it..









I am so glad to hear that things with Skippy are going well. Love and more love and time are our friends as far as teaching animals what we want from them.

enJOY!
Melanie
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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

Thank you for all of the responses. It is quite obvious that everyone here has the best interest of the puppy in mind. There is some debate as to what exactly constitutes his best interest, however.

If it weren't for hubby, that puppy would be sitting on my lap right now. He feels we are not ready for a dog right now and has been quite vocal and firm about it. He would be furious if I purchased the dog behind his back. And I have to also admit that, unlike me, he does care about paying that kind of money for a dog, puppymill or no puppymill.

I cannot in good conscience stand by and know that my failure to act resulted in harm to that little male Maltese. I have been thinking about him almost non-stop. I spent a good portion of my work day speaking with coworkers and at least one of them offered to foster him if I purchased him, and she would keep him until hub says we are ready. Although I'd like to avoid having him go to multiple homes, I consider it a better option than him going to a shelter or back to the "breeder." 

What I have decided to do is to facilitate him going to a rescue group. Perhaps I could make a donation to one of them to help defray the costs of getting him out of there. They would probably do a better job than little inexperienced old me at negotiating a more reasonable price and hence a lower profit margin for the store/breeder. Then he would be placed with a foster mommie who (hopefully) has experience working with puppymill rescues.

I live in southeastern Michigan. Does anybody have any connections with a rescue in the vicinity? I am even willing to drive the dog to the Toledo area if necessary.

I hope I am doing the right thing. I can't let him stay there but at the same time I can't bring him home. I really wish I could. But I am committed to doing the best I can to help this poor guy.

Please everyone, you can be brutally honest with me on this. I won't take it personally because I know people are just concerned about the maltese.


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

> Thank you for all of the responses. It is quite obvious that everyone here has the best interest of the puppy in mind. There is some debate as to what exactly constitutes his best interest, however.
> 
> If it weren't for hubby, that puppy would be sitting on my lap right now. He feels we are not ready for a dog right now and has been quite vocal and firm about it. He would be furious if I purchased the dog behind his back. And I have to also admit that, unlike me, he does care about paying that kind of money for a dog, puppymill or no puppymill.
> 
> ...


I think you sound like a very caring person and you are trying to do the right thing. However, this little maltese will just be replaced by another puppy in the store. I am really not sure what the best thing to do here... will a rescue group even help? There are too many older maltese being given up all the time. I definitely would have loved to rescue a little doggie (any little doggie) but my husband is against it (we don't have the time or the space).

Also, I just wanted to mention that sometimes its a crapshoot...even though the odds are that a maltese from a great breeder will be healthy, its not always the case.


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

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I agree regarding the health. It isn't a concern of mine at this point. I have the expectation that when I take a dog into my family, just like if I were to have a baby, there is the potential for health problems and if I am not willing to pay for medical care, I have no business getting a dog. So the medical bills aren't a problem for me. The only thing that's a problem for me in terms of bringing that dog home is the man I married. Who is in all respects a wonderful man and (if I can persuade him) a wonderful dog dad.

Also, this dog has blue eyes. I think they are very pretty but maybe that's one reason nobody bought him yet, aside from the high price?


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Rescue groups very rarely pay for a puppy. And most certainly will not pay, not even a dime, to a Pet Store which is in turn, supporting Puppy Mills. This is against EVERYTHING they believe in, and have been trying to put a stop to for years.

There are thousands of pets sold through Pet Stores. I stay out of them, and petition against them.

On the other hand, why not gather up donations, tell the Pet Store you will pay a certain amount (I'm thinking no more than $300) then turn the little one over to Rescue. That would most certainly be better than the destination he seems to be headed. And worth a shot at a good forever home.

I feel where you're coming from. And as others have said, go with your heart. You are a VERY special person to be thinking of this little soul so intensely.

Debbie and Gang


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

Yes a rescue group wouldn't think twice about buying a puppy from a pet store, no matter the price. 
Also the puppy mill has already gotten it's money. The pet store pays for the dog (to a broker) who gets the pups from the puppy mill and then they turn around and sell the puppy through their pet store for a profit. You would still be supporting the pet store who in turn supports the puppy mill but the question is how much did they pay the puppy mill for that particular dog? You will never know but offering a really low price would ensure that they don't make much of a profit if any. 
I think taking donations for this pup is a good idea, then turn him over to a rescue. Rescues will take a pet store puppy as long as they aren't the ones paying for it. Alot of people buy from a pet store and then realize they can't care for it so give it up to a rescue or shelter (the rescue sometimes gets malts from the shelters).
Anyway good luck.


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## Kissi's Mom (Apr 21, 2006)

> $1150! That's crazy! That's not reduced drastically, that's a regular pet store price for a Maltese! They are pulling at your heart strings trying to get you to buy him. If he has been there for 5 months then the price would be down to at least $800 and even that's too high.
> I remember a pet store in one of or malls, you could see the pups just walking by the store and I saw two HUGE Malt pups sharing one cage. They were at least 10-13 lbs and the pet store clerk said they were 5 months old. I saw them again a few weeks later still there and still with the same over priced price tag. They were over $1,000 and their price never changed. One day they weren't there anymore, I bet they got sent back or sent to a shelter. Bottom line for them is profit. They will lie through their teeth to sell you a pup. Don't fall for it. $1150 is way over priced even for a 8 week old Maltese puppy mill pup. Don't do it. I wouldn't even buy a thing from them. Any money you spend there is supporting them. Every penny you spend there is keeping them in business and keeping those puppy mills in business.
> If you do end up going back (and I recommend you don't) at least ask a few questions before you decide. At the same time remember that they will lie to you if they have to. First ask them how long they keep a puppy that doesn't sell. If they have had these guys for 5 months then I am guessing they keep them for a long time, thinking they will sell at their original price. Then ask how much that pup was when they first got him in. They probably got him when he was 6 weeks old. Then ask them what they do with the pups that aren't sold. Then ask them if they get their money back (if they say they send it back to the "breeder"). Then ask them if you could take the puppy to your vet and have him checked out before you buy him. They might ask to hold your credit card or they might just laugh you out of the store. If they let you go to your vet take him to get checked out and see if there's anything wrong with him. If there is, walk away (after you bring him back to the store of course). If there isn't then ask them if they would be willing to drop the price to $500. If they say no walk away. Then go back later and ask if they would drop the price to $600. I would not pay more than $800 because even at $800 they are making a profit, believe it or not.
> This might or might not work but at least you are getting educated about the dog and you are not supporting puppy mills.[/B]


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

> It sounds like you have already formed a bond with this little guy. Yes, he more than likely came from a puppy mill and for some reason he has not sold - I would think that may be because of the overly inflated price. But should he be allowed to suffer because of where he came from when you already have a connection with him and would finally give him the love that he so deserves. I would not pay what they are asking. If you can get them down to a price that would cut into the "breeders" profits, I would do that after insuring that he is in a healthy state. I know that we should not support puppy mills or backyard breeders, but it seems if his future is in jeopardy, this would be more of a rescue. Go with your heart - it will tell you what is the best thing for you to do. I was at the mall recently and they had 2 maltese in the window, 10 weeks old and they were $1,000 each. The petstore you were in has not reduced the price due to the age. I would offer them the $500 and see what they say. i would certainly tell them my reasons for offering only that amount. Please keep us posted.[/B]


I would tell them you will pay $500.00, you need to have him checked by a vet. Before I got Matilda I went to a pet store and they had a Bishon for $600.00, she was 3 months old. I held her for some time, the lady that worked at the pet store even took a picture of the little puppy and me, I new I wanted a maltese so I didn't get her, but I did fall in love with her. I had that picture and every night before I went to bed I prayed that God would find her a loving home. If you have fell in love with the puppy and he is healty then I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. I am anxious to see if you get him, and pictures.


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## Kissi's Mom (Apr 21, 2006)

First of all I agree with what everybody else has said...the bottom line is profit...chances are you will not get them below what they actually paid for that puppy and don't think that this particular sale will effect the breeders profit...that breeder has already made their profit because most pet stores buy puppies outright. The only way to effect the breeders profit is to make sure that the stores purchasing from them do not have enough support (financially) to keep buying puppies!! A lot of pet stores (especially small ones) will start to sell puppies in order to get people into the store because they are struggling to stay open in the first place. If enough people refuse to purchase ANYTHING from them and make it clear that this boycott is because they are supporting puppymills and brokers then they will either stop selling pups or have to shut their doors and then the "breeders" feel it!! Most pet stores either double (or sometimes triple) their cost when pricing puppies (depending on the area and the popularity of the breed). Typically, at least in our area (Va.) the puppies are not returned to the puppymill but are eventually reduced to "wholesale price". If this puppy came from a larger puppy broker (which supplies pups all over the country) the stores cost was probably around $500, maybe even as much as $800 because it is after all a Maltese and they are so popular right now. Usually the puppy would have to have something really obviously wrong with either it's temperament (which doesn't sound like the case) or something physically wrong for them (that the store can't hide) to reduce the pup more than their investment...on that note you might get input about the blue eyes from either the vets on this forum or maybe one of the breeders.

In any case, I think your heart is in the right place, and I applaud you for that. If you should decide to go back into the store and make an attempt to either purchase or "rescue" this pup my advice (as a former pet supply store owner) DO NOT talk to the people that work the counter ...ask for the OWNER...if you make a big enough scene he may ask you to leave or he may do whatever it takes to shut you up and get you out of the store quietly. After all he does not want you to negatively impact his profits by making him look bad in front of other customers.
Best of luck,
Kissi's Mom


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## Westerfluf (Apr 1, 2006)

I understand how you feel. It is really hard to see a baby in need and not be able to take the sweetie home. If your husband feels strongly about not getting a dog at this time, you have to hear him. I wanted a furbaby for a long time but my husband felt very strongly about not being able to care for one - kids, work, etc. Well, I now have 2 sweet Maltese that came from a rescue. Since he was on board and welcomed them into our home he has been supportive. He's actually madly in love with them now. He loves cuddling with them and takes them for walks. He worries about them the way he worries about our children! Even though it was hard for me to wait, I finally won him over to the furbaby life! I don't know what to tell you about this baby in the petstore, but you are a very kind, loving person and what ever you decide will get my support.


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

*I am so glad to hear that things with Skippy are going well. Love and more love and time are our friends as far as teaching animals what we want from them.

enJOY!
Melanie
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]*


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## Boobookit (Dec 3, 2005)

I know that puppy mills are horrible and I know that there could be a risk health wise. I stay out of stores like that because of that reason, I would fall in love.....

I just feel so horribly bad for that little guy...it isn't his fault that he is there and jut the thought of him not getting love is breaking my heart and reducing me to tears. He deserves a right to live, a right to be loved and to love..... 

I am sorry guys, I, 110%, do NOT support puppy mills and I certainly hope and pray that every person who did anything wrong to these babies and produced them just for a profit gets their just due when they meet their maker...but if it was me...I would march in there and give that furbaby a real chance at life...He would be going home with me.....

M Pacino came from "breeders", but that is not where he was born, he was born in MO. with a USDA "breeder".....a puppy mill I am sure .......He will be 1 year old on the 29th of this month and knock on wood he is healthy and the vet says he is a fine dog! He is the light of our lives and we cherish him.

Marie & Pacino


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=191251
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I hope you are not offended. I wasn't implying that you should go against your husband's wishes (I, for one, wouldn't). Its a tough decision and I think you will make the right choice regardless of what you decide.


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

> I hope you are not offended. I wasn't implying that you should go against your husband's wishes (I, for one, wouldn't). Its a tough decision and I think you will make the right choice regardless of what you decide.[/B]


Oh no, nobody has said anything offensive on this. It's a touchy subject. People are right. No rescue will pay a dime for a pet store dog, but they would happily find him a good home if I buy him.

My new plan of attack is that I am collecting donations from amongst my 50 or so coworkers. I am going to phone the store and ask to speak with either the owner or store manager. I will tell him I am willing to pay $600 for the dog. The reason I am not going lower than that is because I fear they might have some agreement to take the dog back and refund the store, and in order for them to take my offer over theirs, I need to offer slightly more money than whoever would be taking the pup back would offer.

I don't think he's going to sell at his age and price. So I will tell the owner, who will probably certainly refuse my offer of $600, that the offer stands indefinitely. If he doesn't sell in the next few weeks, the owner will have my contact information. I am at a loss as to exactly how high my offer should be to make it preferrable to sending the dog back, but low enough that their profit is negligible. And I will visit him regularly to give him love until the store owner realizes my offer of $600 is his best option.

The fact that I can't bring him home hasn't changed, but I can personally assure he goes to a good loving forever home.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=191416
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I don't know what the "middle man/broker" gets from this, but I saw on some of my rescue posts about puppymills that the breeders get around $200. 

I admire your care for this little one, but just think that when you remove him, another will take his place. Another dog will have to endure a caged life in a puppymill to supply these babies. As long as the pet store can make a profit from the sell of puppymill dogs, then they will keep ordering more. When people quit buying not only pups but pet supplies from these stores, then they go out of business. 

One of the best protest method I've seen (again from a rescue site) is to go into the store and fill a cart with supplies you need. Then, walk up to the manager and (or even go so far as to let the clerk ring up the purchases), then say THIS IS WHAT I WOULD HAVE SPENT IN THIS STORE, BUT SINCE YOU SELL PUPPYMILL DOGS, I WILL TAKE MY BUSINESS ELSEWHERE. Then, walk out of the store emptyhanded. What if you got those 50 friends who were going to donate to go into the store and do this?


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=191528
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lol...







I can only see the look on the cashiers face! lol







If I was ballsy enough I would do it... instead I just stay out of pet stores like that... i'm a sucker for helpless puppies..


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## LMJ (Feb 16, 2006)

Don't think of it as supporting puppymills, think of it as rescuing this little guy from a life that most of us could not stomach. He obviously has touched your heart and isn't that what owning a pet is about? I also think hubby would fall in love with him in a matter of a few minutes of him being in your house. I think it would be an honorable thing to save this little guy and give him a loving home.


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

The sad but true thing is that these types of stores aren't shutting down. It's the opposite. More of them keep popping up! 

Obviously the long term game plan needs to be a way to convince the public not to patronize these stores, but it seems like people don't want to know the truth sometimes. Especially people with large pocketbooks in pet stores.


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

OK. Here's my two cents worth:

1) Do not buy that puppy and, with your big, gold heart, do NOT EVER go into a petstore that sells puppies again! When you buy that puppy, it's poor mom has to produce another litter to replace him and her already poor health will be damaged further.
2) Do not go against something your husband feels strongly about.....your first loyalty is to your husband and your marriage.

3) Anyone whose heart really breaks over a petstore puppy should instead make it your life's work to campaign actively AGAINST puppymills and petstores that sell them. Actually draw up a plan of action. Go to Prisoners of Greed This website has information and ideas that you can implement toward this goal of eliminating puppymills. 

Now the following may be too strong for some folks so you may want to stop reading at this point:

Only if you are willing to commit to #3 on the list should you buy that puppy for any reason whatsoever, whether to give to Rescue or Foster, whatever.


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## Kissi's Mom (Apr 21, 2006)

> OK. Here's my two cents worth:
> 
> 1) Do not buy that puppy and, with your big, gold heart, do NOT EVER go into a petstore that sells puppies again! When you buy that puppy, it's poor mom has to produce another litter to replace him and her already poor health will be damaged further.
> 2) Do not go against something your husband feels strongly about.....your first loyalty is to your husband and your marriage.
> ...


My two cents for what it is worth...I do not disagree with anything anyone has said until now...you recommended that you go to "Prisoners of Greed" website for information....I have said this before and I will repeat it one more time...you cannot believe everything you read on that website!!! My families company is listed there as a "broker" and this is false information...actually it is an outright LIE!!! Because of this I have to wonder how much info on that list is incorrect!! They need to check their facts. You might want to look for a more dependable website if that is the route you decide to take. Prisioner' of Greed has no problem giving you an address to send money but they don't seem to want any other type of correspondence.
Linda


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## lucida.ann (Feb 18, 2006)

> OK. Here's my two cents worth:
> 
> 1) Do not buy that puppy and, with your big, gold heart, do NOT EVER go into a petstore that sells puppies again! When you buy that puppy, it's poor mom has to produce another litter to replace him and her already poor health will be damaged further.
> 2) Do not go against something your husband feels strongly about.....your first loyalty is to your husband and your marriage.
> ...


********************************************************************************
88
Why would that be too strong?
Of course I am willing to do those first three, regardless of where the puppy ends up. I could never pretend I didn't see those things. However, I don't think I can make it my life's work as that is already promised to being an advocate for the mentally ill, developmentally disabled, permanently disabled, or otherwise vulnerable populations that I work with every day. My job is doing something I love. I can't give that up to devote myself to the cause of another group when I have made a commitment to what I am doing now. However I believe I can be active in the campaign against puppymills and puppystores that sell them by creating my own web site about the dangers of puppymills and putting quality comprehensive information on there. The more sites there are out there, the bigger the chances of one of them coming up in the search engines. The higher the rank, the better, and one of the best ways to get a high ranking is to have a lot of sites that link to you. I think that is what Prisoners of Greed is trying to say. I would gladly link to them. But I just can't quit my job and stop working for the people who need me, so i will have to fit this new group of living things that need protection and advocacy into my spare time. There is only so much of me I can give and when I start to stretch it too far it doesn't do anybody much good!



Anyways, long ramble aside, I got hubby to agree to come with me to the Pet Store tomorrow to play with the puppy and make sure he gets some lovin' that day. I am hoping he wil fall in love with him, and I am also hoping to talk the owner down...but I am not getting my hopes up. At any rate, I will take the camera so I can take some photos of this loving little guy! And then I will post them HERE!


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