# So You Think You Can Avoid Pet Food Made in China?



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

More food for thought (pun intended):

"Back in 2007, the melamine that was poisoning dogs and cats was not added directly to the pet foods – it was found in the premix. The Chinese manufacturers added it to their premix to boost the protein content as cheaply as possible. Only when dogs and cats started dying – and the FDA was forced to begin testing the foods – did anyone become aware of the fact. What made the recall so large was that it wasn’t limited to a single food manufacturer. Because they nearly all must rely on premixes, a large number of pet food manufacturers that purchased the same premix were affected. What this means is that switching your pet from one food to another doesn’t necessarily mean you have made any difference at all if your new food purchases the same premix."

Dogs Naturally Magazine Think You Can Avoid Pet Foods Made In China? Think Again!


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

I subscribe to Dog's Naturally too and love it. It's forcing me to dig deeper. I only carry 4 brands of food here at my store and so I've put a call in to all of them to ask some questions. I'm getting a call back from the nutritionist from Fromm's Family Food and am also waiting to get a call back from Addiction. I have however been able to get answers from Grandma Lucy's. This is what they told me about their Artisan and their Pureformance.

Absolutely every single ingredient in their food with the exception of their lamb is sourced and processed here in the USA. That includes their vitamins and minerals. Their lamb is sourced from New Zealand and processed here in the USA. None of their foods are irradiated. In their cat food and their fish treats, again it is all sourced and processed here in the USA and none of their fish is soaked in an STTP solution. 

Whew! So far so good. I'm crossing my fingers and feeling really hopeful that Addiction will also be able to tell me the same thing. I'm guessing there will be something...like the vitamins....that Fromm's will have to tell me is from China since most are.


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Shoni has been on Nature's Variety Raw Frozen (mostly their chicken one) for at least 2 yrs. So far I haven't seen anything negative about it. Have you Crystal or Marj, or anyone who studies this issue of China ingredients?:blush:


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> I subscribe to Dog's Naturally too and love it. It's forcing me to dig deeper. I only carry 4 brands of food here at my store and so I've put a call in to all of them to ask some questions. I'm getting a call back from the nutritionist from Fromm's Family Food and am also waiting to get a call back from Addiction. I have however been able to get answers from Grandma Lucy's. This is what they told me about their Artisan and their Pureformance.
> 
> Absolutely every single ingredient in their food with the exception of their lamb is sourced and processed here in the USA. That includes their vitamins and minerals. Their lamb is sourced from New Zealand and processed here in the USA. None of their foods are irradiated. In their cat food and their fish treats, again it is all sourced and processed here in the USA and none of their fish is soaked in an STTP solution.
> 
> Whew! So far so good. I'm crossing my fingers and feeling really hopeful that Addiction will also be able to tell me the same thing. I'm guessing there will be something...like the vitamins....that Fromm's will have to tell me is from China since most are.


:thumbsup: Good for you for digging deeper, Crystal! I just emailed Fromm's this morning with questions about the source of their fish. 

Bottomline is that these suppliers don't have to disclose to the pet food companies where the fish is processed and since most are processed in China, I have a bad feeling about Fromm's also.

I may have to consider Grandma Lucy's now.


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## Patsy Heck (Jun 10, 2011)

I sure hope you find out. I give the girls Fromm kibble and Stella and Chewy raw. I remember being totally disilusioned over this in 2007. Even the food recommended by lots of Vet's were contaminated.


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Ladysmom said:


> :thumbsup: Good for you for digging deeper, Crystal! I just emailed Fromm's this morning with questions about the source of their fish.
> 
> Bottomline is that these suppliers don't have to disclose to the pet food companies where the fish is processed and since most are processed in China, I have a bad feeling about Fromm's also.
> 
> I may have to consider Grandma Lucy's now.


Unfortunately mine won't eat Grandma Lucy's and i tried several flavors, let me tell you you can smell the garlic in it. I really wanted them to like it but not even the kids that are piggies wouldn't touch it and this went on for a couple of days. I hope there is something out there for my kids to eat. I honestly don't want to home cook, i tried that in the past and i really hate cooking.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Had a very long conversation with the nutritionist from Fromm's. Fromm's fish is sourced either here in the USA or in Canada. Absolutely everything from Fromm's is processed here. So no STTP with the fish. All of their ingredients come from either here in the US, Canada, France, New Zealand or Chili. There may be a few other European Countries they get some things from. But absolutely nothing, including the vitamins & minerals come from China. He was explaining that in Europe, their meat comes with a category 3 health certificate meaning that the animal is inspected both pre and post death. Wish we had that here in the US. None of their food is irradiated.

I'll probably hear back from Addiction tomorrow. They were able to tell me that their fish is sourced and processed in Canada and that none of their food is irradiated. I'm also thinking they told me that none of their ingredients come from China but I didn't write that down and I've had so many things going on today I don't trust my memory at the moment. I know the person I spoke to wasn't sure on the vitamins and she wanted to speak to their nutritionist to ensure she gave me correct answers. I feel pretty strongly that their answers will be the same as Grandma Lucy's and Fromm's. I'll be really surprised if I find out differently.

I also carry another brand of food that is not quite the same quality as the other 3 but is a darn good food for the price and is processed in a very small privately owned plant with strict quality control. It's not available in very many states. Just part of Indiana, Wisconsin and part of Illinois. They also have nothing in their food that is sourced or processed in China. 

So far so good for what I stock!


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Had a very long conversation with the nutritionist from Fromm's. Fromm's fish is sourced either here in the USA or in Canada. Absolutely everything from Fromm's is processed here. So no STTP with the fish. All of their ingredients come from either here in the US, Canada, France, New Zealand or Chili. There may be a few other European Countries they get some things from. But absolutely nothing, including the vitamins & minerals come from China. He was explaining that in Europe, their meat comes with a category 3 health certificate meaning that the animal is inspected both pre and post death. Wish we had that here in the US. None of their food is irradiated.
> 
> I'll probably hear back from Addiction tomorrow. They were able to tell me that their fish is sourced and processed in Canada and that none of their food is irradiated. I'm also thinking they told me that none of their ingredients come from China but I didn't write that down and I've had so many things going on today I don't trust my memory at the moment. I know the person I spoke to wasn't sure on the vitamins and she wanted to speak to their nutritionist to ensure she gave me correct answers. I feel pretty strongly that their answers will be the same as Grandma Lucy's and Fromm's. I'll be really surprised if I find out differently.
> 
> ...


Awesome!!! Thanks, Crystal :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Now if all pet store/boutiques really went the extra mile like you to back up the products they sell... it'd be a very different world for pet lovers  Or if all pet food companies really had the best interest of pets in mind...it'd be heaven!


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

It's scary, they know we're looking out for the made in USA label.but you gotta watch to see if ingredients are imported. If the ingredients are imported but they manufacture it in the US it's harder to detect. You will see "Made in USA with imported ingredients" but you have to really hunt the labels to find it...
It helps to google it on a smart phone but even then, it can be ambiguous at best...
Also there are companies that send product to the US and have it repackaged to say "made in USA"...


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Had a very long conversation with the nutritionist from Fromm's. Fromm's fish is sourced either here in the USA or in Canada. Absolutely everything from Fromm's is processed here. So no STTP with the fish. All of their ingredients come from either here in the US, Canada, France, New Zealand or Chili. There may be a few other European Countries they get some things from. But absolutely nothing, including the vitamins & minerals come from China. He was explaining that in Europe, their meat comes with a category 3 health certificate meaning that the animal is inspected both pre and post death. Wish we had that here in the US. None of their food is irradiated.
> 
> I'll probably hear back from Addiction tomorrow. They were able to tell me that their fish is sourced and processed in Canada and that none of their food is irradiated. I'm also thinking they told me that none of their ingredients come from China but I didn't write that down and I've had so many things going on today I don't trust my memory at the moment. I know the person I spoke to wasn't sure on the vitamins and she wanted to speak to their nutritionist to ensure she gave me correct answers. I feel pretty strongly that their answers will be the same as Grandma Lucy's and Fromm's. I'll be really surprised if I find out differently.
> 
> ...


Excellent work, Crystal! That is the same thing Fromm told me this morning.

I will stick with Fromm. It's what Josy recommended, too.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

hoaloha said:


> Awesome!!! Thanks, Crystal :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Now if all pet store/boutiques really went the extra mile like you to back up the products they sell... it'd be a very different world for pet lovers  Or if all pet food companies really had the best interest of pets in mind...it'd be heaven!


Actually I had checked on whether things were sourced from China back when deciding what foods to bring in. Although I knew the vitamins and minerals may not have been, I couldn't remember if I asked. But it never occurred to me to ask if the ingredients that were sourced here may have been shipped to and processed in China! And I couldn't remember everything I had asked back then so I just wanted to double check myself. That's another reason why I only carry 4 different brands of food.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Actually I had checked on whether things were sourced from China back when deciding what foods to bring in. Although I knew the vitamins and minerals may not have been, I couldn't remember if I asked. But it never occurred to me to ask if the ingredients that were sourced here may have been shipped to and processed in China! And I couldn't remember everything I had asked back then so I just wanted to double check myself. That's another reason why I only carry 4 different brands of food.


That's the scary part, that premixes and fish may actually be processed in China, then shipped to the US. Since the supplier doesn't have to disclose this to the pet food company, we consumers don't know what is really in our pet food.

Good for you for contacting the companies! :thumbsup:


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## Leanne (Sep 6, 2012)

I know it does not seem practical for many but I have eliminated this risk completely....I feed raw. My food comes from my local farmers who know me and my dogs. But better yet I know them and I know their farming practices. I also know how they feed and treat their animals. It is where I get the food that I feed my family. All food and all treats come from my local farmers. With a little planning I put up food 4-5 times a year and do not need to worry about poisoning my animals. Since I started feeding raw with 2 new dogs....visits to vet are for health checks yearly. That is it! The best shape I have ever seen in any of the dogs I have had through out my life. After 2.5 years of feeding raw I will never return to commercially produced food. I do not think my dogs would either. Consider it......


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Leanne said:


> I know it does not seem practical for many but I have eliminated this risk completely....I feed raw. My food comes from my local farmers who know me and my dogs. But better yet I know them and I know their farming practices. I also know how they feed and treat their animals. It is where I get the food that I feed my family. All food and all treats come from my local farmers. With a little planning I put up food 4-5 times a year and do not need to worry about poisoning my animals. Since I started feeding raw with 2 new dogs....visits to vet are for health checks yearly. That is it! The best shape I have ever seen in any of the dogs I have had through out my life. After 2.5 years of feeding raw I will never return to commercially produced food. I do not think my dogs would either. Consider it......


Good for you! If I had the time I would be making my own as well. I have enough farmers in my area that I can purchase meat from as well. Not very many places left like ours. What recipe are you following and who is the veterinarian or vet nutritionist that formulated it? Just a caution, not all vets are aware of the special needs of Maltese and don't realize they don't do well on a lot of organ meat and need a more moderate protein amount since the majority of all Maltese are asymptomatic MVD and undiagnosed. Most vets don't realize you can have a dog with normal ALT's and AST's but still have a high BAT.


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## gopotsgo (May 21, 2009)

Leanne said:


> I know it does not seem practical for many but I have eliminated this risk completely....I feed raw. My food comes from my local farmers who know me and my dogs. But better yet I know them and I know their farming practices. I also know how they feed and treat their animals. It is where I get the food that I feed my family. All food and all treats come from my local farmers. With a little planning I put up food 4-5 times a year and do not need to worry about poisoning my animals. Since I started feeding raw with 2 new dogs....visits to vet are for health checks yearly. That is it! The best shape I have ever seen in any of the dogs I have had through out my life. After 2.5 years of feeding raw I will never return to commercially produced food. I do not think my dogs would either. Consider it......


Excellent post! I also have been feeding raw for about 2 years and love it. I use Darwins which is made here in the west coast, uses only free range meat, and adds organic veggies/fruits and nothing else. I add additional veggies in the form of a celery/zucchini/broccoli slurry to lower the animal protein content a bit and then add home made organic yogurt/kefir. A dash of milk thistle and blue green algae and VIOLA! I think, the best doggy food possible for my precious pups. I would never use kibble for my pups.


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## Leanne (Sep 6, 2012)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Good for you! If I had the time I would be making my own as well. I have enough farmers in my area that I can purchase meat from as well. Not very many places left like ours. What recipe are you following and who is the veterinarian or vet nutritionist that formulated it? Just a caution, not all vets are aware of the special needs of Maltese and don't realize they don't do well on a lot of organ meat and need a more moderate protein amount since the majority of all Maltese are asymptomatic MVD and undiagnosed. Most vets don't realize you can have a dog with normal ALT's and AST's but still have a high BAT.


I know the time thing took me a while to figure out. The nice thing with the little dogs is I only feed 1 cup a day for all 3. This is for 2 small dogs and 1 cat. Thank god for the cheap ziploc 1 cuppers. We just keep a rotation from freezer to fridge going. I pack up a ton when I grind and we are lucky to have the spare freezer.

I take the animals the Lake Harriet Holistic and Traditional Vet Hospital in Mn. ALP/ALB/GGT/ SGPT/TP/CHOL/GLOB/TBILI/BAT are monitored.. so far all liver panels on my malt are good. I have been lucky.
I do a 5:1 mix with the 1 being 1/4 ground chicken organs and 3/4 ground chicken bone. I rotate proteins every 3 days using beef, buffalo, turkey, chicken, venison, elk... all very lean. When they are really good for a special occasion they may get a little lamb or rabbit. I make a wet food of sweet potato and carrots with cold pressed coconut oil that I make up in bulk and freeze. Avocado is a favorite too. 

The farmers have been great in helping me to identify dog treats. The favorite is dehydrated lungs. They absolutely love them. I can break them into tiny pieces that work great for training treats. Elk and deer horn make great chew dental bones. For a special treat they get lamb knuckle bones. My 4 year olds teeth are pearly white with no tatar at all and gums are in great shape. My vet says if this continues we will not have to a dental ever. Maya the little malt was a rescue I have had for 9 months. Her bad tartar has cleared up well and we may be able to cancel her dental as well.

At first I was not so sure and little grossed feeding raw, but once I got going it is really easy and I can really tell the difference. Not one health problem, no allergies, joint disorder, skin issue, digestive GI disorder. Coats are beautiful! Just healthy, happy and high energy pups. I have lost to many pups to what I believe is the dog food conspiracy... to health issues that dogs should just not have. I am a true believer.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Leanne said:


> I know the time thing took me a while to figure out. The nice thing with the little dogs is I only feed 1 cup a day for all 3. This is for 2 small dogs and 1 cat. Thank god for the cheap ziploc 1 cuppers. We just keep a rotation from freezer to fridge going. I pack up a ton when I grind and we are lucky to have the spare freezer.
> 
> I take the animals the Lake Harriet Holistic and Traditional Vet Hospital in Mn. ALP/ALB/GGT/ SGPT/TP/CHOL/GLOB/TBILI/BAT are monitored.. so far all liver panels on my malt are good. I have been lucky.
> I do a 5:1 mix with the 1 being 1/4 ground chicken organs and 3/4 ground chicken bone. I rotate proteins every 3 days using beef, buffalo, turkey, chicken, venison, elk... all very lean. When they are really good for a special occasion they may get a little lamb or rabbit. I make a wet food of sweet potato and carrots with cold pressed coconut oil that I make up in bulk and freeze. Avocado is a favorite too.
> ...


I agree that raw makes a HUGE difference in the amount of tarter and calculus on the teeth. Even the dehydrated raw I do has made a huge difference. We do Elk antlers and moose paddles here. I've found deer antlers aren't one that the dogs really get into. We also do cow knee caps.

So you don't add any supplements to your food? Did your holistic vet give you the recipe? And your vet is redoing BAT's yearly when they had normal levels originally? Most vets don't even consider doing a BAT unless they see an elevated ALT or AST.


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## Bailey&Me (Mar 8, 2010)

gopotsgo said:


> Excellent post! I also have been feeding raw for about 2 years and love it. I use Darwins which is made here in the west coast, uses only free range meat, and adds organic veggies/fruits and nothing else. I add additional veggies in the form of a celery/zucchini/broccoli slurry to lower the animal protein content a bit and then add home made organic yogurt/kefir. A dash of milk thistle and blue green algae and VIOLA! I think, the best doggy food possible for my precious pups. *I would never use kibble for my pups*.


:goodpost: 

I feel the same way. I have been doing mainly dehydrated raw for Bailey with some frozen prepared raw as well...moving more and more towards doing the frozen raw only. I use Primal currently but researching other brands to rotate. I've heard good things about Darwins so I'll check if my local store carries it. I prefer the prepared raw because I worry about getting the nutritional balance right if I make my own.


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## Leanne (Sep 6, 2012)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> I agree that raw makes a HUGE difference in the amount of tarter and calculus on the teeth. Even the dehydrated raw I do has made a huge difference. We do Elk antlers and moose paddles here. I've found deer antlers aren't one that the dogs really get into. We also do cow knee caps.
> 
> So you don't add any supplements to your food? Did your holistic vet give you the recipe? And your vet is redoing BAT's yearly when they had normal levels originally? Most vets don't even consider doing a BAT unless they see an elevated ALT or AST.


My malt was just tested Sept mainly for my own peace of mind. My Vet says he will run any panel that I ask for though all 3 Vets do not feel it is necessary. They are a full service traditional/holistic practice with all available resources in house which is hard to find in a holistic practice. I may not repeat BAT if we show no symptoms. Maya is 4 yr old/8lb malt and has shown no CNS, Gastro, Urinary or weight issues. But it is always a concern I have learned with the malts, so I will keep my eyes open. 
We have also stopped vaccinations aside from rabies, and run titers once a year. I am absolutely thrilled with this. This year we also went totally insecticide free using only essential oils. Not one tick or flea this year yet and both dogs run an 80 acre dog park 2-3 times a week. But here in Minnesota we are lucky to get a reprieve from pests for a good 5 months so this type of treatment will work for us.

I also supplement with yogurt or cottage cheese and we do try different fruits and veggies but we can end up with gas especially from the broccoli. Carrots, sweet potato, pumpkin and avocado are my mainstays. The only supplement added to meat is the cold pressed coconut oil. Here is a link for good article from dogs naturally Dogs Naturally Magazine The Health Benefits Of Coconut Oil 

My vet helped me formulate specifically for my guys due to the amount of big bone feeding we do, we use very lean protein. Do not want to cause fatty liver disease. I do all the grinding and mixing and packing here at home. It takes me one day every 3 or 4 months. What are moose paddles? They sound kind of fun!

I am so happy to hear that there are others feeding malts raw. Sometimes people think I am crazy for doing this especially with small dogs but I truly believe that raw is just better especially when you read the first post of this thread. I look forward to being able to share information with you and gain more insight from your knowledge!


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## Abigail Lilly (Jul 24, 2012)

*Addiction Food*



Crystal&Zoe said:


> I subscribe to Dog's Naturally too and love it. It's forcing me to dig deeper. I only carry 4 brands of food here at my store and so I've put a call in to all of them to ask some questions. I'm getting a call back from the nutritionist from Fromm's Family Food and am also waiting to get a call back from Addiction. I have however been able to get answers from Grandma Lucy's. This is what they told me about their Artisan and their Pureformance.
> 
> Absolutely every single ingredient in their food with the exception of their lamb is sourced and processed here in the USA. That includes their vitamins and minerals. Their lamb is sourced from New Zealand and processed here in the USA. None of their foods are irradiated. In their cat food and their fish treats, again it is all sourced and processed here in the USA and none of their fish is soaked in an STTP solution.
> 
> Whew! So far so good. I'm crossing my fingers and feeling really hopeful that Addiction will also be able to tell me the same thing. I'm guessing there will be something...like the vitamins....that Fromm's will have to tell me is from China since most are.



I hope you get good news Crystal! I am going to wait to hear what you discover before I order two cases (minimum for free shipping.) I have too much dog food here now that I cannot use! I hope this one works for Abby. She is doing fine today. I appreciate your incredible knowledge.


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## Abigail Lilly (Jul 24, 2012)

*Addiction*



Abigail Lilly said:


> I hope you get good news Crystal! I am going to wait to hear what you discover before I order two cases (minimum for free shipping.) I have too much dog food here now that I cannot use! I hope this one works for Abby. She is doing fine today. I appreciate your incredible knowledge.


 About Addiction that is.....Have you had any that tend toward IBD that could not tolerate the Duck and Sweet Potato? Thank you.....


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Thought I'd bump this thread and realized I never replied after talking to Addiction. Addiction's ingredients are all sourced either here in the US, New Zealand or Canada. All of their vitamins and minerals are sourced here in the US. Everything is processed here in the US. And no, they do not use Irradiation. :thumbsup:

I checked on PetCurean too. PetCurean does source some of their things from some European countries like Duck. It comes from France. But everything else is sourced from Canada, US and NZ. Everything is processed in Canada. And they do get their Taurine from China. There is less than 0.15% in their formulas and they have the Taurine tested in a facility in Alberta, Canada. And no irradiation.


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## stressedowner (Nov 13, 2012)

*stressedowner needs help*

Ive been trying to post my own post and its very hard to find where and how to do it I need help with my dog and would like some feedback but dont know how to post my own thread need help new member


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

stressedowner said:


> Ive been trying to post my own post and its very hard to find where and how to do it I need help with my dog and would like some feedback but dont know how to post my own thread need help new member


Just go to the appropriate section that the subject of your post would fall under. Then in the upper left corner you'll see a 'New Thread' button to click on. It will then open a window for you to type in the title of your thread and the body of your initial post in that thread. :thumbsup:


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

I normally feed home cooked (steamed rice with veggies) with raw eye of round steaks. We also add whatever leftover meat we were eating (because he wants the same thing we had). So he has a variety of meat (always lean). But since he does not always eat in the morning and we cannot leave home cooked out all day long, we put down some Natural Ultramix Lamb & Rice from Castor & Pollux. On top we put a few pieces of cheese or ham to entice him to eat a little. Most of the times he will eat only the cheese or the ham. We want him to eat a little bit in the morning to avoid having him throw up some bile because of an empty stomach. It says it is Made in the USA and has no corn, no soy and no wheat. Does not have artificial colors or preservatives. But now I am wondering.


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## piratelover (Nov 11, 2012)

Ladysmom said:


> :thumbsup: Good for you for digging deeper, Crystal! I just emailed Fromm's this morning with questions about the source of their fish.
> 
> Bottomline is that these suppliers don't have to disclose to the pet food companies where the fish is processed and since most are processed in China, I have a bad feeling about Fromm's also.
> 
> I may have to consider Grandma Lucy's now.


I am appauled that they do not have to disclose where they are having the fish processed at. It should be public knowledge. We have a right to know what our fur pets are eating!


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