# Wee-R-Yorkies?



## sunnydays (Apr 18, 2005)

Hello, I am new to the board and am on the search for a healthy, happy maltese puppy. I am located in Southern California and have been researching breeders. I called a few. So far I like Marlene Maltese & Yorkies (Martha Thomas), Glionna's Maltese (Frances Glionna), and Wee-R-Yorkies (Sandy Grizzell) based on my phone interview with them. My next step is to go and visit them in person. Has anyone got a maltese from any of them before? I would really love to know your experience.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Do you know if they have web sites? If so, can you provide the URLs.... that'll help those of us not familiar with these breeders... sometimes a "red flag" can be noticed on the web site! 

By the way, congrats on choosing a Malt... what a wonderful breed.... now, the most important thing is finding a responsible breeder! Oh, and...

Welcome to SM!!


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

California Central Valley Maltese Club
Ms. Pauline Vieira
Corresponding Secretary
11420 E. Peltier Road
Acampo, CA 95220
209-334-1616


This might be a good resource.


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## sunnydays (Apr 18, 2005)

Thanks for responding  

Wee-R-Yorkies is the only one I know of that has a website:
http://wee-r-yorkies.com

I will definitely check that resource out. Thanks!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by sunnydays_@Apr 23 2005, 10:49 PM
> *Thanks for responding
> 
> Wee-R-Yorkies is the only one I know of that has a website:
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Hi, I took a look at her site. I wouldn't buy from her... but that's just me.. 

Here is one reason. She says: "I breed the standard, and others to achieve the “tiny baby doll” look that is not found in standard representations of these breeds. Most of my Yorkies and Maltese will stay in the 2-5 pound range, rather than the 7+ lb. commonly found available. Parents are normally on the premises and most come from champion lines."

The Maltese standard is 4-7 pounds..... Why in the world is she breeding a dog that will only be 2 pounds except because people may be willing to buy them.


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Apr 23 2005, 08:43 PM-->
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Hi, I took a look at her site. I wouldn't buy from her... but that's just me.. 

Here is one reason. She says: "I breed the standard, and others to achieve the “tiny baby doll” look that is not found in standard representations of these breeds. Most of my Yorkies and Maltese will stay in the 2-5 pound range, rather than the 7+ lb. commonly found available. Parents are normally on the premises and most come from champion lines."

The Maltese standard is 4-7 pounds..... Why in the world is she breeding a dog that will only be 2 pounds except because people may be willing to buy them.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=55837
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Also, some of the dogs she lists under "a stud" are 2 lbs. That seems kind of wrong to me.


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

Chanel is from Martha Thomas and I love Chanel. I went through this whole thing about wanting her and taking her back and Martha was really nice to me. She loves her dogs and I love the way Chanel looks. I was looking for a particular look and I found it. She lives 2 hours away from me but I took my bf and we were fine. She slept all of he way home. I would recommend Martha.

Also, I called Sandy Grizell and I didn't get a good feeling from her. And she is too pricey.

Hope this helps.

~Elegant


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

I am very close to Acampo. So I have talked to two ladies in Acampo, one was Pauline. She is either the one who doesn't breed accept to get another show prospect so hardly ever has litters or she is the one that really rubbed me the WRONG way. I can't remember which of the ones she was









Have you seen







? I have talked to her on the phone a few times a long time ago and had a wonderful impression of her. I did not buy one of her dogs because she is on the high end of price range, but I think they would be well worth it. They look perect to me. When I ever save enough money for my next one, I will want one from her. She is close to Sacramento though.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by chloeandj_@Apr 24 2005, 10:05 PM
> *I am very close to Acampo. So I have talked to two ladies in Acampo, one was Pauline. She is either the one who doesn't breed accept to get another show prospect so hardly ever has litters or she is the one that really rubbed me the WRONG way. I can't remember which of the ones she was
> 
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[/QUOTE]

There are a number of red flags on this website

1. Charges more for smaller dogs.

2. Sell's "tinies"

3. No pictures of the parents.

4. No mentions of titling the parents in conformation. 

5. Charges more to buy dogs with full instead of limited registration. Only show quality dogs should be sold on full registration and those are definately NOT the going prices for pet and show quality Maltese.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I have posted this before, but it's a must-read for anyone thinking of purchasing a "teacup" or "tiny" Maltese:

Those extra small dogs not only come with a huge price tag, they also run up huge vet bills.

* They break bones easily, especially legs, by jumping on and off furniture. There have been cases of bones shattering on impact from normal playing or being held too firmly.

* Their mouths are usually not big enough to accomodate all their adult teeth and they have problems with overcrowding, decay, etc.

* Internal organs may not be fully or adequately developed.

* They have trouble regulating their own body heat. They can literally starve to death because they have to expend so much energy trying to maintain a normal body temperature.

* They have trouble regulating their own blood sugar.

* They are more prone to diarrhea and vomiting. Since they can dehydrate so quickly, even a simple case of diarrhea can become life threatening and require a trip to the vet, possibly hospitalization.

* Extra and expensive tests are needed prior to routine teeth cleanings and surgeries. 

* Even with the best of care, it's not unusual for so-called "teacups" to die at very young age, sometimes living only 2 or 3 years even with the best of care.

The author of one of the articles I read suggested that if a 5 pound dog is too heavy for you, get a stuffed animal!

Good advice!


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

I checked the diamondjs.net site out as well. I have to agree w/ JMM. Also the Brussels puppies appear to be pretty low quality at a high price. I looked into the brussel griffon before setting my mind to a maltese. And their "tiny" puppy is within breed standard so I don't understand why it has an almost $3000 dollar price tag.


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

I agree don't buy from diamondjs.net or wee-r-yorkies.com. They both seem to be back yard breeders. diamondjs.net even has a part of her website that says...



> About The Maltese Breed
> The Maltese is a member of the oldest dog know to man. They have beautiful mantel of long, silky, white hair, this is their crowning glory. They are gentle-mannered and affectionate, yet playful and full of animation. Despite their size, they posse the vigor needed for a excellent companion. The Maltese is intelligent and easy to train, they have no fear and usually know no strangers, but have 6th sense for some one who could do you harm, and will let you know, if you are paying attention. Maltese must be groomed regularly wash ever other week and brushed through once a week. They are beautiful in their long flowing white coat but live happiest in a two inch puppy cut. Even thought Maltese do not have any fear, they are the most gentle of the toy breeds...
> 
> Because of its wonderful temperament the Maltese is a wonderful dog with children. I have found that Maltese truly enjoy them. And children just love Maltese! A Maltese's out going nature and playfulness is just irresistible!
> ...


WHAT!!! She's crazy and knows nothing about the Maltese breed!

She also talks about her dogs being therapy dogs and has a picture of an elderly man holding a pup that couldn't be more than a day old. Why on earth is she letting him hold that pup so young?! Does she want these pups to die? She also has pictures of children holding pups that don't look more than a few weeks or so old. This woman really doesn't know much about any kind of puppies let alone Malts.
I had to stop looking at her page after seeing that 7lb Brussel nursing at least 7 pups! That's alot of pups for a 7lb dog to give birth to. 

Everyone else said everything I was going to say about the wee-r-yorkies.com so I don't have to comment on them.


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JMM+Apr 25 2005, 08:44 AM-->
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There are a number of red flags on this website

1. Charges more for smaller dogs.

2. Sell's "tinies"

3. No pictures of the parents.

4. No mentions of titling the parents in conformation. 

5. Charges more to buy dogs with full instead of limited registration. Only show quality dogs should be sold on full registration and those are definately NOT the going prices for pet and show quality Maltese.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=56137
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Actually she has lots of pictures of parents if you continue to look. She also has lots of pictures of growing puppies and videos. She is one that doesn't believe in titaling her dogs. Nothing wrong there to ME. I know it is a hot debate that you need to show your dogs to be a good breeder. I am not someone who belongs to that way of thinking. I'm not saying a breeder shouldn't show. You may have noticed she will not sell to a show home. I lean more towards that way of thinking.I think her dogs are beautiful and they are well cared for. How does one describe a dog that will be 7 lbs and one that will be 4 lbs. A 4 lb dog in tiny compared to 7 lbs. She does not say t cup. And EVERYBODY charges more for breeding rights. I don't think any puppymiller will be seeking out a $3000 dog to breed either. AND most of all EVERYBODY charges more for smaller dogs. You just can't sell an 8 lb potential male for the same price you can sell a 4 lb female. Her males are 3.5-4 lbs. You don't get below standard with that size unless it is the runt and that is basically where her "tinies" come from. She does not breed for small. I've read her entire site and talked to her on the phone. She is very knowledgable about genetics and such.


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by FannyMay_@Apr 25 2005, 10:11 AM
> *I agree don't buy from diamondjs.net or wee-r-yorkies.com.  They both seem to be back yard breeders.  diamondjs.net even has a part of her website that says...
> 
> QUOTE*


*



About The Maltese Breed
The Maltese is a member of the oldest dog know to man. They have beautiful mantel of long, silky, white hair, this is their crowning glory. They are gentle-mannered and affectionate, yet playful and full of animation. Despite their size, they posse the vigor needed for a excellent companion. The Maltese is intelligent and easy to train, they have no fear and usually know no strangers, but have 6th sense for some one who could do you harm, and will let you know, if you are paying attention. Maltese must be groomed regularly wash ever other week and brushed through once a week. They are beautiful in their long flowing white coat but live happiest in a two inch puppy cut. Even thought Maltese do not have any fear, they are the most gentle of the toy breeds...

Because of its wonderful temperament the Maltese is a wonderful dog with children. I have found that Maltese truly enjoy them. And children just love Maltese! A Maltese's out going nature and playfulness is just irresistible! 

Maltese are also wonderful because they don't shed or have a dander. They are also Hyper-Allergenic and they have no doggie oder.So If having allergies this maybe one you can love. Ask your doctor?

Click to expand...

*WHAT!!! She's crazy and knows nothing about the Maltese breed!

She also talks about her dogs being therapy dogs and has a picture of an elderly man holding a pup that couldn't be more than a day old. Why on earth is she letting him hold that pup so young?! Does she want these pups to die? She also has pictures of children holding pups that don't look more than a few weeks or so old. This woman really doesn't know much about any kind of puppies let alone Malts.
I had to stop looking at her page after seeing that 7lb Brussel nursing at least 7 pups! That's alot of pups for a 7lb dog to give birth to. 

Everyone else said everything I was going to say about the wee-r-yorkies.com so I don't have to comment on them.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=56180
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I wish I knew what offended you here?? The brushing? Her maltese have very silky hair. The kids? I have kids and yes they are WONDERFUL with eachother. Why would a puppy die if you hold it too young? How can she help how many puppies her Brussels will have? These comments are a bit extreme.


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

And actually here in california that is the going rate for a beautiful maltese. And a show breeder charges even a little more than that.


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

She was wrong about just about everything! Malts aren't hypo allergenic and they do sorta shed. I find Fantasia hair all over and I am allergic to her. Also she says just to brush through once a week, that's wrong. You have to brush through once a DAY. And saying they are good dogs for children is also wrong. A rescue wouldn't give a small dog to a family with small children because the children could hurt the dog. Children like to "hug" tiny pups and could hurt or kill it if not careful. Small children and small dogs just don't mix well. I agree that is has been done and can be done but a breeder shouldn't say that these pups are good for small children, it's just not true. Too much handling of a day old pup isn't good either. These pups have low immune systems and having an elderly person hold it isn't safe at all.
And the standard is 4-7lbs so why would you think 3.5 is within standard?


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by FannyMay_@Apr 25 2005, 11:00 AM
> *She was wrong about just about everything!  Malts aren't hypo allergenic and they do sorta shed.  I find Fantasia hair all over and I am allergic to her.  Also she says just to brush through once a week, that's wrong.  You have to brush through once a DAY.  And saying they are good dogs for children is also wrong.  A rescue wouldn't give a small dog to a family with small children because the children could hurt the dog.  Children like to "hug" tiny pups and could hurt or kill it if not careful.  Small children and small dogs just don't mix well.  I agree that is has been done and can be done but a breeder shouldn't say that these pups are good for small children, it's just not true.  Too much handling of a day old pup isn't good either.  These pups have low immune systems and having an elderly person hold it isn't safe at all.
> And the standard is 4-7lbs so why would you think 3.5 is within standard?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=56232*


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Well you are on the brink of really offending me and I'm afraid I will really offend you if I respond about the children issue so I won't continue with that. One of her males is 1/2 pound shy of standard. Why do you need to be so technical? AND maltese are known for their hypoallergenic qualities. She does state to talk to your doctor about it. I didn't want to debate about this because I know we have different points of view and we should remember that that is ok and what a forum is for.

Actually I do want to ask if you have children??

Oh I forgot to add if you have a maltese with beautiful silky hair, you can get away with only once a week brushings. My mom's maltese is a perfect example of this. She is in her full coat and gets brushed once a week with her bath with not one mat. She gets brushed at other times too but it isn't necessary.


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

There is no such thing as a hypo allergenic dog and if she was a good breeder she would know that. And I do not have children. I also could say some things that could really offend you too but I won't.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I'd suggest going to our "Breeders" section and reading, reading, reading. There are many posts there about how to find a good breeder, questions to ask, red flags to watch out for, etc.

I think what Jodi is trying to point out is that a reputable breeder would never advertise a Maltese as hypoallergenic. Too many dogs and cats end up in rescue or shelters due to allergies. Although some people with allergies are not bothered by a Maltese, others, like Jodi, are. 

Most reputable breeders also will not permit vistors around puppies when they are very young. Diseases, like Parvo, can be carried in on shoes and can kill an entire litter.

The small children and Maltese is a heated debate on many forums. As a rule, most reputable breeders will not sell a Maltese puppy to a home with small children nor will a rescue to adopt to one.

If you ask for advice on breeders, you may hear things you don't want to hear. It is not aimed to offend you, but rather warn you. Both Jodi and I have Maltese with health issues because they were not bred by reputable breeders. I think I can safely speak for both of us when I say our main goal is to save anyone considering a Maltese puppy from making a mistake that can cost them a fortune in vet bills and break their heart.


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

I totally understand what you are saying. I also know where you are coming from, Chloe is not my first maltese. But I hate to see someone labeled as a bad breeder just because they do not show. I have talked to many show breeders that gave me an impression of a high class puppy mill. I think you need to talk to someone and visit their home and then make your impression. And this breeder actually will not let you come to her home until you are a potential buyer and the puppies are a certain age. No lookiloos. Personally, I think it's wonderful that she let's her live in elderly gentleman share in the experience. I'm sure no parvo will be spread by an elderly man in a wheel chair.


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

I never once said that she was a bad breeder because she didn't show. Although that is how I feel, I never said that as one of the reasons to not buy from this person.


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by chloeandj_@Apr 25 2005, 11:59 AM
> *I'm sure no parvo will be spread by an elderly man in a wheel chair.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=56262*


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I just have to say that yes infact parvo can be spread by an elderly man in a wheelchair. Parvo is a horrid deadly disease, anyone else who has gone thru it can attest to the fact it can be contracted anywhere even in the most unlikely places. The steps you have to go thru after a puppy w/ parvo are very strict due to the fact the virus can live in the ground for somthing like 3 yrs if I remember correctly. So just by rolling in his wheelchair in the park he can pick up the virus on his wheel and bring it in the home. Unlikely yes, possible yes, this is why many breeders will not allow anyone near new puppies and some require you step in shallow pan of bleach before walking into the puppy room as it can be on the bottoms of your shoes.


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

Well I for one would rather have a puppy join my family that socialization of prime importance with the breeder. I don't know if anyone looked through the entire site but she massages her dog's feet and looks in their ears, etc to get them used to being handled. Hasn't anyone ever received a puppy that hated to be brushed and groomed? Scared of new things? She seems to be most concerned that the puppy will be a good pet.

I still do not think that having a member of your family holding a puppy would cause them to get parvo. He is holding the puppy not letting it run on the ground. If I had puppies, I would sure hold them and look at them after washing my hands and removing my shoes. Why is it different because he is in a wheel chair? And for the children issue I just can't make myself comment about that to a person who doesn't have any... 

Sigh....
I realize there is a need for me to be proven wrong here for some reason. So I will just let this subject be now.


Thank you to the people that pm'd me. Thank you for letting me know you share my feelings on these matters...


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

I would be interested in knowing the thoughts of those PMing her. Why not post your thoughts here, isn't that what this forum us for?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

"I don't know if anyone looked through the entire site but she massages her dog's feet and looks in their ears, etc to get them used to being handled. Hasn't anyone ever received a puppy that hated to be brushed and groomed? Scared of new things? She seems to be most concerned that the puppy will be a good pet."

Just a word of caution ........ Don't believe everything you read on these internet websites. Remember, they are trying to sell you a puppy so of course they are going to paint a rosey picture.

One of our members recently bought a puppy from Sonshine Acres. Their website claimed their puppies were lovingly raised in their homes. It turns out that they are one of the largest puppy mills in the midwest and the puppies are raised in cages in a barn. It also turned out that the puppy, Bella, has a liver shunt. Her mom has spent a fortune on her and she's not even a year old yet.

You might also want to read another recent post where one of our members was promised one puppy and sent another sickly one:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3425

Just like real estate, buyer beware is good advice.


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by chloeandj_@Apr 25 2005, 02:07 PM
> *I still do not think that having a member of your family holding a puppy would cause them to get parvo. He is holding the puppy not letting it run on the ground. If I had puppies, I would sure hold them and look at them after washing my hands and removing my shoes.
> 
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=56333*


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I just want to make one thing clear. I am not attacking you for your opinion nor do I expect to be attacked for mine. However, no one has said because he is in a wheelchair he shouldn't be allowed near the puppy. My point is this, people coming from the outside bring the threat of parvo, that includes everyone including myself. Most breeders w/ young puppies will limit contact w/ the outside world hence limiting contact w/ family members, people wanting to see the pups and even themselves until the puppies are a little stonger. And lastly as someone who has a child I do think malts and children are good together but I do not think malts and young children are a good match. Accidents happen a toddler tripping while running from point a to b can fall and land on a malt killing him, while if he does that to our lab Ranger won't budge. It is nothing against kids or malts to me it is purely a size thing. Young kids and small breakable things don't mix wether it is a malt or my glass vase I am not giving it to a 3 yr old to play with. I am sorry you feel "attacked" but people do have the right to disagree it is what this all about, and it is why I come here to learn others viewpoints on things and to learn from those different than me.


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## MaltTease (Mar 8, 2005)

This kind of debate is good because it allows us to see both sides. I personally would err on the side of caution and I agree with FannyMay, Dhodina, and Lady's Mom. ChloeandJ, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I appreciate you sticking to your guns. Some people are just more conservative than you in selecting a breeder. I think that is what this argument boils down to. Certain policies and practices of Wee-R-Yorkies are considered red flags to the more conservative people, and are of little consequence to people like you. It is up to each of us to establish criteria of what we are looking for in a breeder, and then use these criteria as a basis for selection.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

My bottom line is if you aren't breeding to improve the breed, then you shouldn't be breeding. 

If you don't know anything about the dog's structure and pedigree or faults, you can't be improving on them. There are very few dogs worthy of breeding out there.


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## chloeandj (Apr 1, 2005)

I can't feel attacked when I think I am right







I feel like we need to base judgement on each individual breeder and each individual person. This breeder would be right for me because we have very similar beliefs. I have actually spoken to her a few times as well. So it's not only an opinion I was giving from viewing her website. I feel like my opinion is based on information I have gathered for a long time and I feel good about where I stand. I know I am a responsible parent and owner too. Children and dogs can be trained and raised to live safely in harmony with eachother. So no one can make me believe that I am wrong in owning both. I have owned maltese since I was a young child. My children were born into a home that already had maltese in it. My children have never had the opportunity to fall, squeeze or mistreat any animal in their entire life. I also have eyes like a hawk.


Sadly people don't feel like they can post their real opinions for fear of causing what I have. And in reality I'm actually a bit shy and introverted but some things do cause me to get a little pissy. I hate to see bad things being said about breeders that have no validation to them.

I also hate to hear people say that any family with kids should not have a small dog. If you have a strong opinion about this matter it is only valid if you yourself have experience with the subject. I can certainly agree that some families with children shouldn't own a small dog, but I bet I would also think that same family should not own any dog at all.


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## dhodina (Apr 1, 2005)

> I can't feel attacked when I think I am right
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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by chloeandj_@Apr 25 2005, 03:27 PM
> *I can't feel attacked when I think I am right
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[/QUOTE]









Well said...









Not that it is really anyone's business, but I will come out of the dark and admit that I am one that pm'd her! Why would I want to post my opinion on the thread when I KNOW that I will be attacked as she was?! Many of the areas in her posts have been debated on here *over and over* again. The ones who think his/her opinion is the *only one that matters* make others feel _"scared"_ (for lack of a better word) to speak out.








Again, it *all* boils down to the way in which you choose to disagree and or state your opinion.

Anyway, I have my opinion about these issues, and it has been shared on here before, only to be berated/belittled etc....so I shared it with her only. That is the loveliness of PM's!  Many of you *say* that this is a place to share opinions and learn from one another...but sharing opinions can be done in a *respectful* manner, and I don't think everyone always does that. -_-


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## MaltTease (Mar 8, 2005)

I think part of the "problem" here is that some people associate their opinions and beliefs about the issues with their inner selves, and when someone disagrees with that opinion, they feel as if their core being is being attacked. I think that it is okay to disagree with someone's opinion, and to say so in a spirited way, and still not take it as a personal attack. So far in this entire thread, I have only seen people's opinions being debated, but nobody has come out and said anything negative about the poster personally. This is the way it should be on a forum, and I do not think anyone here should have felt like they were "attacked." It is good to see that ChloeandJ did not feel attacked even though 3 other posters disagreed with her!







Thus, I think that people should not worry so much about being attacked, and expect that their opinion will be contested by others, yet continue to bring their point of view. If someone is proved wrong, then hopefully that person will have the graciousness to admit it, and not continue to debate just to defend a bruised ego.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MaltTease_@Apr 25 2005, 04:07 PM
> *I think part of the "problem" here is that some people associate their opinions and beliefs about the issues with their inner selves, and when someone disagrees with that opinion, they feel as if their core being is being attacked.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=56468*


[/QUOTE]


Our opinions and beliefs about issues *are* part of our inner selves? Right?! We derive our beliefs/opinions about topics through knowledge and experience that we have gathered throughout our lives. That is part of what makes us individuals. I don't see that as a "problem".







I think what happens is that many people have tougher "skins" than others and don't think about how their words may sound to others whose skins are not as thick.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MaltTease_@Apr 25 2005, 05:07 PM
> *I think part of the "problem" here is that some people associate their opinions and beliefs about the issues with their inner selves, and when someone disagrees with that opinion, they feel as if their core being is being attacked. I think that it is okay to disagree with someone's opinion, and to say so in a spirited way, and still not take it as a personal attack. So far in this entire thread, I have only seen people's opinions being debated, but nobody has come out and said anything negative about the poster personally. This is the way it should be on a forum, and I do not think anyone here should have felt like they were "attacked." It is good to see that ChloeandJ did not feel attacked even though 3 other posters disagreed with her!
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I agree!


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## MaltTease (Mar 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by tlunn+Apr 25 2005, 01:15 PM-->
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Our opinions and beliefs about issues *are* part of our inner selves? Right?! We derive our beliefs/opinions about topics through knowledge and experience that we have gathered throughout our lives. That is part of what makes us individuals. I don't see that as a "problem".







I think what happens is that many people have tougher "skins" than others and don't think about how their words may sound to others whose skins are not as thick.








<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=56475
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So when someone disagrees with your opinion, you feel that they are disagreeing with your core essence of being?









People can disagree with your opinion and still not have a problem with you, personally. If you disagree with this opinion of mine, I will not feel that you are declaring jihad on my inner self!


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

> _Originally posted by chloeandj_@Apr 25 2005, 04:27 PM
> *I also hate to hear people say that any family with kids should not have a small dog. If you have a strong opinion about this matter it is only valid if you yourself have experience with the subject. I can certainly agree that some families with children shouldn't own a small dog, but I bet I would also think that same family should not own any dog at all.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=56439*


[/QUOTE]

Once again you have misunderstood me. I didn't say that this woman or anyone else shouldn't have children and Malts. In fact I said


> And saying they are good dogs for children is also wrong. A rescue wouldn't give a small dog to a family with small children because the children could hurt the dog. Children like to "hug" tiny pups and could hurt or kill it if not careful. Small children and small dogs just don't mix well. *I agree that is has been done and can be done *but a breeder shouldn't say that these pups are good for small children, it's just not true.[/B]


I was pointing out reasons why this breeder isn't a good one because of all the red flags. In doing so I offended you because you don't see anything wrong with these red flags. That's fine, but don't for once think that I am attacking you because I disagree with your choice of breeder. It's not a good choice but it's not my choice either. I am just trying to educate the other users of this forum so that they will buy from a reputable breeder. She as wrong in the things that she said and I was pointing that out. 
Saying that a Maltese is hypoallergenic is False
Saying that a Maltese is wonderful dog with children is False
Saying that a Maltese has no dander is False
Giving children that young a Maltese puppy that couldn't be more than a few weeks old is just silly. They didn't look more than 5-6. My nephew is 3 and he terrorizes Fantasia. He tries to kick her and he tries to "hug" her. He chases her around the house and he tries to jump on her. When we visit there I have to practically hold her 24/7 so he won't hurt her. He doesn't mean to but he's just a child and that's just how they are. I wouldn't give a 5 year old a 12 week old Malt to hold for fear of the crushing them, let alone a few week old pup.
So although you can teach a child to live with a Maltese, and children and Malts can live together, it's not usually recommended and as I said before giving small children a tiny Maltese to hold is just crazy.
And although I don't have children now I am young and plan on having children in the future. I plan on training my child to live with Fantasia and I plan on separating them when I can't be around to watch. 
I just don't see why you would defend false things. It's not that it's my opinion it's just facts. I didn't even bring my opinion about showing to be a reputable breeder into it until you brought it up. I was just stating facts for why this breeder wasn't a good breeder. Loving and caring for the Maltese breed doesn't make you a good breeder. It doesn't make you a bad person but it doesn't make you a reputable breeder either.
Saying these dogs are good with children will just make people with children get one without knowing how to handle a child and a small dog. The dog will end up hurt or the child will end up hurt and the dog will go to rescue, a shelter, or back to the breeder. 
Saying that a Maltese is hypo allergenic will make people like me (this saying is why I looked into the Maltese breed before I got one) with allergies buy one and then when they realize they are allergic and their Dr. says they should get rid of the dog (like me again) the dog will end up in rescue, a shelter or back to the breeder. So saying these things will just hurt the pup in the long run. It's better not to say these things when advertising a Maltese puppy.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MaltTease+Apr 25 2005, 04:42 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]

*So when someone disagrees with your opinion, you feel that they are disagreeing with your core essence of being?







*

People can disagree with your opinion and still not have a problem with you, personally. If you disagree with this opinion of mine, I will not feel that you are declaring jihad on my inner self! 
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=56495
[/B][/QUOTE]



I guess in a way I do.







Depends on how that opposition is stated.







Again, some people have thicker skins than others. 
I am through here-
The very reason why I didn't post my opinion to begin with and PM'd it. -_- 








When will I learn to keep my mouth shut?


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## FannyMay (Nov 18, 2004)

LOL tlunn no one is bashing you. I just wanted everyone to post their opinions instead of feeling they had to hide.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by FannyMay_@Apr 25 2005, 06:18 PM
> *Once again you have misunderstood me.*


FannyMay, I'm sure you feel that no one is listening or comprehending what you are saying and that can be so frustrating, I know.

I just want to let you know that I think your posts are well written and I truly understand and appreciate the information you are trying to share. You "tell it like it is" and personally, I like your moxie.


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## lani (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Apr 25 2005, 03:55 PM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/B][/QUOTE]


I agree







I think ur posts are very helpful and to the point!!! Thanx for educating all of us!


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## sunnydays (Apr 18, 2005)

WOW! I haven't checked out the forum for a couple of days, and my thread has gotten to 3 pages. Yikes! Anyway, I read over what people have said relating to my question which was originally about whether or not people have had good experiences from the breeders I listed.

My status right now is still on the hunt for a good breeder. I visited one this weekend and she was really nice. She doesn't have puppies yet though. She only has 2 liters a year. Her dogs were really friendly and well behaved! They were cuties. Anyway, she said that one is pregnant right now and she will be due soon (mid - end of May). Once they are 6 weeks old, she will call me so I can take a look at them. I get to pick which one I want at that point.

When they are 12 weeks, I get to take my puppy home









She made me the most comfortable on the phone, so that is the one I decided to visit first. I also liked her a lot because I knew she was concerned about who she adopts her puppies to because she asked me a lot of questions about myself and my living situation (whether or not I have children or if my apartment accepts pets and if she could call to make sure, etc) just as a dog rescue does when someone adopts.

So I think I found my breeder. Thanks to all those who responded to my original post!


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I'm glad you found someone you're comfortable with! Good luck!


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## sheila2182 (Nov 28, 2004)

> > over and over[/B] again. The ones who think his/her opinion is the *only one that matters* make others feel _"scared"_ (for lack of a better word) to speak out.
> >
> >
> >
> ...


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by sunnydays_@Apr 26 2005, 12:06 AM
> *WOW! I haven't checked out the forum for a couple of days, and my thread has gotten to 3 pages.  Yikes!  Anyway, I read over what people have said relating to my question which was originally about whether or not people have had good experiences from the breeders I listed.
> 
> My status right now is still on the hunt for a good breeder.  I visited one this weekend and she was really nice.  She doesn't have puppies yet though.  She only has 2 liters a year.  Her dogs were really friendly and well behaved! They were cuties.  Anyway, she said that one is pregnant right now and she will be due soon (mid - end of May).  Once they are 6 weeks old, she will call me so I can take a look at them.  I get to pick which one I want at that point.
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Would you mind sharing who you chose?

~Elegant


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I have not participated in this thread and I choose not to now. I think that good points were made by lots of people. The one thing that I want to say is that I believe in the "sanctity" of the PM. I have occassionally PM'd someone to offer support when I felt that my comments might have further inflamed the discussion. Healthy discussion is wonderful and all people do not agree and probably should not always agree. Sometimes, though, the prudent course of action might be to PM.


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## sunnydays (Apr 18, 2005)

Elegant - I chose Martha Thomas from Yucca Valley. She is soooo nice and very informative!! 

correction on my part though, I called her again today and she said she won't start breeding again til June so September is when I finally get to take my puppy home  A long way from now, but I am excited nevertheless.


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## Pippinsmom (Nov 29, 2004)

Congratulations! I am so happy that you found a breeder you are comfortable with, and I think you're smart to wait until later this year to get the pup that you want. The wait will be long but oh so worth it!!









I know this thread has gotten a little heated...what I have noticed is that there really is NO perfect breeder out there. You can take the comparison lists between a reputable breeder and BYB and 9 times out of 10 you will find that a breeder...whether they show or not....can have characteristics out of both lists. It's not about being right or wrong...it is impossible for this issue to be black or white because it is SUBJECTIVE. What might be a reputable breeder for one person might be considered a BYB by another. As long as each of us is comfortable with our breeder and happy with our decision...that's really what's important.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I'd rather wait for the right pup, too. When I was looking for a pup, I got myself on the list a year before I wanted a pup. It was a much better experience as I got to know the breeder over that time chatting about the dogs and upcoming litters. They really knew what I was after. When I went to look at pups, they had 2 available and I really liked the one they had thought was right for me.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Apr 25 2005, 04:19 PM
> *My bottom line is if you aren't breeding to improve the breed, then you shouldn't be breeding.*


I feel the same way about HUMANS.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Carrie+Apr 28 2005, 08:06 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/B][/QUOTE]


ROTFL I once got a fwd in my e-mail with a bill board that said "Spay and Neuter Your Pets (and your annoying friends and relatives, too)" 

How apt!


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Carrie+Apr 28 2005, 09:06 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/B][/QUOTE]









Congrats Sunnydays!!!! It'll be worth the wait!!!! I'm so excited for you


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## rubyjeansmom (Jan 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Carrie+Apr 28 2005, 06:06 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/B][/QUOTE]


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

Wow, I like Martha too. I keep in touch with her often. I email her pics of Chanel. I want to visit her one day so she can see Chanel in person. She had loving little boy puppies last year when I went to see Chanel. Made me want to get a boy instead because they were so happy. Chanel didn't want to have anything to do with me! Little stinker.

Again, congrats, and if you have any questions about Martha or whatever, please feel free to email me!

~Elegant


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## sunnydays (Apr 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Elegant_@Apr 30 2005, 09:33 PM
> *Wow, I like Martha too.  I keep in touch with her often.  I email her pics of Chanel.  I want to visit her one day so she can see Chanel in person.  She had loving little boy puppies last year when I went to see Chanel.  Made me want to get a boy instead because they were so happy.  Chanel didn't want to have anything to do with me!  Little stinker.
> 
> Again, congrats, and if you have any questions about Martha or whatever, please feel free to email me!
> ...


[/QUOTE]


Thanks Elegant! I will definitely take you up on that offer when the time gets closer


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Elegant_@May 1 2005, 12:33 AM
> *Wow, I like Martha too.  I keep in touch with her often.  I email her pics of Chanel.  I want to visit her one day so she can see Chanel in person.  She had loving little boy puppies last year when I went to see Chanel.  Made me want to get a boy instead because they were so happy.  Chanel didn't want to have anything to do with me!  Little stinker.
> 
> Again, congrats, and if you have any questions about Martha or whatever, please feel free to email me!
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Elegant, .... just curious.... did you ever find out from the breeder what happened to Chanel's mother?


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## Elegant (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+May 1 2005, 05:44 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Elegant, .... just curious.... did you ever find out from the breeder what happened to Chanel's mother?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=58566
[/B][/QUOTE]
No, but I sent a sympathy card. I just let it go...she isn't going to tell me.

~Elegant


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## Majestic (Jun 17, 2012)

*Wee R Yorkies & Maltese- Sandy Grizzell*



k/c mom said:


> [/B]


Hi, I took a look at her site. I wouldn't buy from her... but that's just me.. 

Here is one reason. She says: "I breed the standard, and others to achieve the “tiny baby doll” look that is not found in standard representations of these breeds. Most of my Yorkies and Maltese will stay in the 2-5 pound range, rather than the 7+ lb. commonly found available. Parents are normally on the premises and most come from champion lines."

The Maltese standard is 4-7 pounds..... Why in the world is she breeding a dog that will only be 2 pounds except because people may be willing to buy them.[/QUOTE]


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Majestic said:


> Hi, I took a look at her site. I wouldn't buy from her... but that's just me..
> 
> Here is one reason. She says: "I breed the standard, and others to achieve the “tiny baby doll” look that is not found in standard representations of these breeds. Most of my Yorkies and Maltese will stay in the 2-5 pound range, rather than the 7+ lb. commonly found available. Parents are normally on the premises and most come from champion lines."
> 
> The Maltese standard is 4-7 pounds..... Why in the world is she breeding a dog that will only be 2 pounds except because people may be willing to buy them.


[/QUOTE]

Do you realize that those posts are from 2005 ?????


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