# Licking, Licking, Licking..



## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

I just cant take it anymore! I have tried already a few things to see what the problem is with kodie but i dunno what to do now... Kodie keeps licking his front legs... right on the top of his paws... and he woke me up last night at 5am because he was licking them and I could hear him slurping right next to my head!! I looked at his legs this morning and now he has a brush burn on the top of each of his front paws from ALL THE LICKING!!! I have tried a few things because I thought it was allergy related....

1) I cut out cheerios (I thought the wheat was doing it)
2) I stopped fresh veggies (he was also getting gas from those)
3) I tried to correct him and tell him thats bad to lick his paws! (haha.. i was disperate) I have also tried to take his attention away from the paws when hes licking them so he will stop. Sometimes he gets nasty with me if I try to move him away from licking his paws.









I have a few ideas and would like everyone elses opinons... do you think that maybe its the shampoos I use? I use these brands.. 
*[attachment=389:attachment] This is the Lambert Kay Oatmeal and baking soda shampoo and I use the conditioner..
*[attachment=390:attachment] I use this snowy coat whitener from lambert kay at times too.
* I will also use BoDerks shampoo and conditioner
* I use Lambert Kay baby tearless shampoo for his face only
* [attachment=391:attachment] I only give kodie 1 cookie every morning of these (original flavor only)
* Do you think hes allergic to his dog food... he only gets Hill's l/d dry kibble.
* I do give him heart worm tabs every month...

These are the only things I do or give to kodie... so is there a product that is still causing allergies? or is he bored and just licking just because of boredom?









Please help... Any suggestions please... I rather NOT go through allergy testing either! I think kodie has been through enough testing... so I'm trying to maybe fix the problem myself... hopefully. -_- The only other thing health wise to mention is that he has MVD... but is not showing any clincial signs of it... soo I do NOT have to have a completely strick liver friendly diet as of yet.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Kodie's paw licking might be an obsessive/compulsive behavior. There's a lot of information about it on the internet.

http://www.dermapet.com/articles/art-18.html

I know sometimes stress can cause obsessive licking. I had a rescued Siamese cat that licked all the hair off one leg when she first got brave enough to venture out in the whole house (she spent the first 3 months living in my daughter's room). Fortunately, she got over it. I know that's not Kodie's situation, but some animals are just naturally stressed out/worrywarts like some people are. I know they even put dogs on Prozac for OCD, but you wouldn't want to do that with Kodie's liver disease.

Inhaled allergies are actually more common than food allergies. Many dogs are allergic to grasses. Could that be it? Does Kodie go outside to potty?


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

No, Kodie is trainned on puppy pads..


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## NC's Mom (Oct 23, 2004)

It's possible for dogs to get tested for allergies?! Little C and I are going to have to pay a visit to the vet!!!! I thought you had to figure it out through a process of elimination, but testing would be SO much easier.

Little C frequently goes after her front legs, too, but in a different area. It's on the front o fthe legs, very near where the legs are connected to the body. I actually have to keep that area shaved down just for applying medicine and keeping an eye on it. I also have to keep her feet shaved down to the skin because of the same thing. 

Every time they run out of dog food, I buy a new kind because by then, Little C seems to be allergic to something in there. For the first week or so of a new bag, all her skin problems disappear. Then they start back up again, slowly. If I dare to buy the same dog food twice in a row, it looks like someone threw boiling water on her.

I would force myself to buy meat for her and put her on raw (she never had ANY skin problems when she was on raw) for at least one meal a day, but I don't feel like the meat is safe either. There are always so many warnings and such. 

Do you keep Kodie's hair short? I've found that it's easier to keep on top of everything if the hair in the problem areas is shaved completely off. She looks really weird, but it certainly helps.


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## NC's Mom (Oct 23, 2004)

Lady'sMom, you must have posted while I was typing.

Grass! Why didn't I think of that? Little C goes outside EVERY DAY to pee and she always HAS to go on the grass. She also likes to rub herself on it, and roll in it (which I scold her for because that's nasty). Sir N DOES have an allergy to grass, which is one reason I started the whole feet washing thing. He's fine so long as I wash his feet, but perhaps that isn't enough for Little C. Hmmmm.

Anyway, going to go pester the vet about allergy testing tomorrow.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

We have a thread going about allergy testing you might want to read.

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5982&hl=

My Petie (Golden) was allergic to grass. It's a pretty common allergy.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

I'm trying to advoid the testing if possible...


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

Frankly I don't think Kodie's licking is due to boredom. It's allergies. The reason ? He starts licking at 5 in the morning. That's about the time the cells in the paws start responding to it. I am sorry I am not good at explaining things. And it's a long time my vet told me about this (my late lhasa had allergies very bad). It has something to do with the cells coming together in the paws and that's why the first thing they lick is the paws. It used to drive me nuts too. Oscar (my lhasa) would chew his paws open to the flesh. 
Check the ingredients in the food you are giving Kodie and check if they contain RICE. I posted something about this a while ago. Try to eliminate Rice for a while and see what happens. It's worth a try.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> Brewers rice, pork fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), dried egg product, soybean meal, pasta product, soy fiber, flaxseed, pork protein isolate, chicken liver flavor, vegetable oil, powdered cellulose, glycerol monostearate, taurine, DL-methionine, L-arginine, L-carnitine, L-tryptophan, ethoxyquin (a preservative), minerals (dicalcium phosphate, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, salt, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, menadione dimethylypyrimidinol bisulfite ( a source of vitamin K)).[/B]


Brewers rice... whats that? I dunno what to feed him then... all the Hill's food has it in it... and I'm supposed to watch his diet... now what do I feed him?
















What can i feed him for a few weeks to try out if it IS the rice?? Remember Kodie has MVD... I know i can feed him some baby food.. he loves that... but what else?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

That food also has soybean meal. Soy products are one of the top 3 allergy-causing ingredients in dog food.

Have you ever tried Benedryl at night to see if it helps? For Kodie's size probably 1/4 of a tablet would be good. That would tell you if it's allergies or not.


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## Chilly dog (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi, sorry I new to the Maltese scene (I got my Chilly a month ago!) so I'm not sure I can really give any valuable advice on the licking problem!

I had a question that's SOMEWHAT related... Because for over a week now Chilly has been hacking, almost like he's trying to cough up a hairball, and it usually ends in a gag. I was thinking it might be from licking himself and swallowing hair, so I was just wondering if Kodie ever did this?

-Mal&Chilly-


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Chilly dog_@Sep 13 2005, 10:14 AM
> *Hi, sorry I new to the Maltese scene (I got my Chilly a month ago!) so I'm not sure I can really give any valuable advice on the licking problem!
> 
> I had a question that's SOMEWHAT related... Because for over a week now Chilly has been hacking, almost like he's trying to cough up a hairball, and it usually ends in a gag.  I was thinking it might be from licking himself and swallowing hair, so I was just wondering if Kodie ever did this?
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Have you talked to you vet about this? It might be a crushed windpipe or he could have something stuck in his throat.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom_@Sep 13 2005, 11:03 AM
> *That food also has soybean meal. Soy products are one of the top 3 allergy-causing ingredients in dog food.
> 
> Have you ever tried Benedryl at night to see if it helps? For Kodie's size probably 1/4 of a tablet would be good. That would tell you if it's allergies or not.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=99143*


[/QUOTE]
So... if i continue feeding kodie the hill's l/d and just give the benedryl that will tell me its allergies? How many times a day do you give the benedryl?


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Chilly dog_@Sep 13 2005, 11:14 AM
> *Hi, sorry I new to the Maltese scene (I got my Chilly a month ago!) so I'm not sure I can really give any valuable advice on the licking problem!
> 
> I had a question that's SOMEWHAT related... Because for over a week now Chilly has been hacking, almost like he's trying to cough up a hairball, and it usually ends in a gag.  I was thinking it might be from licking himself and swallowing hair, so I was just wondering if Kodie ever did this?
> ...


[/QUOTE]
no, he does not do this.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kodie+Sep 13 2005, 10:22 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So... if i continue feeding kodie the hill's l/d and just give the benedryl that will tell me its allergies? How many times a day do you give the benedryl?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=99157
[/B][/QUOTE]

Benedryl is an antihistamine, so if you notice a difference, that would mean it's probably allergies.

I'd probably just give Kodie just a 1/4 tablet at bedtime, at least to start. I always try to err on the side of being conservative when it comes to medication. It will also make him drowsy.

Benedryl is pretty safe. It's the only drug my vet would let me give Lady for her allergies initially since she gets phenobarbitol for seizures which can cause liver damage. Unfortunately, that also causes drowsiness and she was so sedated she could barely walk so she now gets Zyrtec. I have a neighbor with a seizure dog who gets Allegra for allergies.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Chilly dog_@Sep 13 2005, 10:14 AM
> *Hi, sorry I new to the Maltese scene (I got my Chilly a month ago!) so I'm not sure I can really give any valuable advice on the licking problem!
> 
> I had a question that's SOMEWHAT related... Because for over a week now Chilly has been hacking, almost like he's trying to cough up a hairball, and it usually ends in a gag.  I was thinking it might be from licking himself and swallowing hair, so I was just wondering if Kodie ever did this?
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Chilly's Mom, you might want to read this article on collapsing tracheas:

http://www.toybreeds.com/health.htm


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom+Sep 13 2005, 10:48 AM-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
*[/QUOTE]

Benedryl is an antihistamine, so if you notice a difference, that would mean it's probably allergies.

I'd probably just give Kodie just a 1/4 tablet at bedtime, at least to start. I always try to err on the side of being conservative when it comes to medication. It will also make him drowsy.

Benedryl is pretty safe. It's the only drug my vet would let me give Lady for her allergies initially since she gets phenobarbitol for seizures which can cause liver damage. Unfortunately, that also causes drowsiness and she was so sedated she could barely walk so she now gets Zyrtec. I have a neighbor with a seizure dog who gets Allegra for allergies.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=99176
[/B][/QUOTE]
I've given Lexi Benedryl before and it didn't make her tired.







I had heard it usually does so I kept waiting for her to get tired. Never did


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## jellybn1 (Mar 16, 2005)

Maybe you should put Kodie on a "premium organic "kibble are many great ones...... Merrick-Solid Gold-Wellness etc. Corn & soy are not at all good for dogs. 
I gove Cha Cha Stella & Chewies freeze dried steaks too. Diversify the foods... Try a natural diet. Ut's also a wonderful & healthy way to feed our babies. I have many kinds of foods & websites if you need additional help.
Jellybn1


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by jellybn1_@Sep 13 2005, 03:57 PM
> *Maybe you should put Kodie on a "premium organic "kibble are many great ones...... Merrick-Solid Gold-Wellness etc. Corn & soy are not at all good for dogs.
> I gove Cha Cha Stella & Chewies freeze dried steaks too. Diversify the foods... Try a natural diet. Ut's also a wonderful & healthy way to feed our babies. I have many kinds of foods & websites if you need additional help.
> Jellybn1
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=99308*


[/QUOTE]
Because Kodie has MVD Kodie's mom has to be very carefully what she feeds him.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom+Sep 13 2005, 05:02 PM-->
> 
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Because Kodie has MVD Kodie's mom has to be very carefully what she feeds him.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=99310
[/B][/QUOTE]
yeah.. which is bad because what if the end result is that kodie IS allergic to his liver diet food...







What am i gonna do....


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom+Sep 13 2005, 11:53 AM-->
> 
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I've given Lexi Benedryl before and it didn't make her tired.







I had heard it usually does so I kept waiting for her to get tired. Never did
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=99181
[/B][/QUOTE]
haha... thats cause lexi is FULL of energy!!


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

> Brewers rice, pork fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), dried egg product, soybean meal, pasta product, soy fiber, flaxseed, pork protein isolate, chicken liver flavor, vegetable oil, powdered cellulose, glycerol monostearate, taurine, DL-methionine, L-arginine, L-carnitine, L-tryptophan, ethoxyquin (a preservative), minerals (dicalcium phosphate, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, salt, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, menadione dimethylypyrimidinol bisulfite ( a source of vitamin K)).[/B]


There is pork, chicken, egg and pasta in that brew. Why don't you try feeding Kodie some cooked chicken breast with pasta and any kind of vegetable. You can put everything together in the food processor (that takes less time then cutting everything in small pieces). You can cook up a batch, make little portions and freeze them. That way you don't have to cook for him every day. When I read what's in that dog food it makes me shudder. There is not one thing natural in there. I buy chicken tenderloins or beef stew or pork chops to make Alex's food. You can mix chicken liver with it too. Pasta has more protein then rice, so don't put to much pasta with the meat. It's not that much work.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kodie_@Sep 13 2005, 10:54 AM
> *Brewers rice... whats that?  I dunno what to feed him then... all the Hill's food has it in it... and I'm supposed to watch his diet... now what do I feed him?
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I was told that Brewer's Rice is a cheap filler.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

In the Strombeck book there is a chapter on liver disease and recipes. Pages 335-350


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## Chilly dog (Aug 16, 2005)

Lexi's and Lady's Moms: I'd originally wanted to take Chilly to the vet but my boyfriend convinced me not to worry by saying Chilly would be whining if it was bothering him. I must learn to trust my (maternal!) instincts! I have a vet appointment for Chilly tomorrow... Wish us luck that all goes well, please!, I am so nerous...

-Mal&Chilly-


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Chilly dog_@Sep 13 2005, 09:48 PM
> *Lexi's and Lady's Moms: I'd originally wanted to take Chilly to the vet but my boyfriend convinced me not to worry by saying Chilly would be whining if it was bothering him. I must learn to trust my (maternal!) instincts! I have a vet appointment for Chilly tomorrow... Wish us luck that all goes well, please!, I am so nerous...
> 
> -Mal&Chilly-
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=99425*


[/QUOTE]
If it is something the puppy only does a few times then I usually don't worry to much. But if it is something that they do on a regular basis for more than a day then I would at least call the vet and see what they say. If it goes on for more then 3 days I would take them to the vet.


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Chilly dog_@Sep 13 2005, 10:48 PM
> *Lexi's and Lady's Moms: I'd originally wanted to take Chilly to the vet but my boyfriend convinced me not to worry by saying Chilly would be whining if it was bothering him.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=99425*


[/QUOTE]

does your boyfriend whine when things bother him? haha never mind, i am a male, we are whiners, good on you for making a vet appointment as dogs almost never "whine" when something is wrong, Sampson has always licked his paws and our vet determined it was alergies due to grass so he gets a shot about once a year and it helps alot, its hard to avoid grass, the allergy even contributes to his tear stain, i guess in the end i am saying find out what it is thats causing it even if it costs more money now it may save you and him alot in the end (ie: if it is his diet)


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## NC's Mom (Oct 23, 2004)

I'm so glad that I saw this thread because I hadn't known allergy testing was possible. We went in today, but couldn't get it done as the vet didn't have what he needed. He ordered a testing kit and we have to go back tomorrow evening after work. I'm wondering how many things she is going to turn out to be allergic to and dreading how I'm going to have to deal with it. I see handling dead animal flesh in my immediate future.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Sep 13 2005, 06:29 PM-->
> 
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I was told that Brewer's Rice is a cheap filler.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=99349
[/B][/QUOTE]

I don't have a high opinion of Hills foods, including their prescription diets. I found that they use a lot of cheap fillers - corn, brewers yeast and even ground up peanut hulls (to add fiber to their diabetic food, w/d). Not only were Lady's allergies worse, she had a lot of tummy upsets.

From what I have heard, Hills heavily donates to vet schools and "encourages" vets to carry their brand of prescription diets.

I checked around and wasn't any more impressed with the others out there, either, to be honest. But all I checked were diabetic foods.

You really might want to consider a home cooked diet. I know Pico's mom and I think JMM have some good recipes for a liver diet. There is also a good liver friendly diet posted here on the canine epilepsy website (seizure drugs can cause liver damage).

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels...ealthy_diet.htm


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

well.. i tryed the benadreyl last night... should it work the first time you give it to them? or after a few nights?


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

If it were going to help, I woud think you'd see difference right away. Did he still lick this morning?


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

I did see licking... but i dunno if he was just cleaning himself or not because he was licking in other places too.









There is some good news... his brush burns on the top of his paws are basically gone! Thanx god!


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

You could try talking to your vet and a nutrionist if you want to try home cooked meals. That way you know the recipes are ok for kodie.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Sep 14 2005, 09:15 AM
> *You could try talking to your vet and a nutrionist if you want to try home cooked meals.  That way you know the recipes are ok for kodie.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=99498*


[/QUOTE]
i wish it was that simple... my local vet is horrible... i'm still waiting for a phone call from them saying they have my hill's dog food in... and that was 3 weeks ago!! I had to get someone else to get it at their vet's office.

ohh.. and they have no clue about MVD


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

None of your think that it could be the shampoo????


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

It could be. Have you tried a different brand and kind?


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lexi's Mom_@Sep 14 2005, 03:50 PM
> *It could be.  Have you tried a different brand and kind?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=99661*


[/QUOTE]
Just the ones I mentioned... I havent changed


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

I would recommend trying good oatmeal type shampoo or a Hypo-Allergenic
Shampoo. 

PetSilk has a hypo-allergenic tearless shampoo for $8.95.


> This shampoo can be used on all coat types for soothing and gentle cleansing and moisturizing without fragrance or color. Pure, natural and safe. Made specifically for allergic and sensitive pets, it is gentle to the skin and coat and leaves the coat silky, soft, and static free. Ideal for puppies and kittens and a far better choice than baby shampoos. The Soap Free formula has silk extracts, mint, Camomile, Vitamins A, B, D , E. Dilute 1:10[/B]


They also have oatmeal shampoo for $8.95


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

ummm... maybe I should try that for a few weeks and see if it helps... if not... then I at least ruled out the shampoo.


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## LexiAndNikkisMom (Apr 13, 2004)

yeah, worth a shot. Since your already using an oatmeal shampoo I would look for a hypo-allergenic one. Do you have a PetsMart or PetCo near you? If so see if the line they carry in their grooming store has a hypo-allergenic shampoo.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

well... I tried the benadreyl again last night... but I gave it to him when i went home from work... because thats when i notice him licking the most. He didnt really lick about an hr or so after i gave it to him... he licked for a few secs on one leg and when i put my hand on his paw to stop him... he didnt get nasty with me either... sooo is it possible that he was licking at that moment because its a habit but wasnt getting nasty with me because his paws were not bothering him???


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

He was not nasty with you because he was in a better mood, maybe the benadryl calmed him. If they like what they are doing they don't like you to stop them.


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