# LarMor Maltese



## Tanner's Mom (May 27, 2005)

LarMor Maltese has a little boy & girl available soon. They're 9 weeks old and she anticipates they'll weigh 5#s but said it's kinda hard to tell at this age. Anyway, contact her at larmormaltese.com.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Year ago I had a lovely pup out of one of her studs...


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

Thanks, I never heard of this breeder, but glad to learn something. I'll go check out the website.


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

Tanner's Mom, first I would want to know the Mom and Dad's pedigree. What gene's are they caring? Genetics play a big part in problems that can cause these pups and new owners a life time of heart ache.
Where did the parents come from, I see nothing. I see nothing that says they show their dogs. Am I missing something?
From the web site I would not buy a dog from them.
JMO.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

To my knowledge there are at least 2 people currently showing her dogs.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

theboyz said:


> Tanner's Mom, first I would want to know the Mom and Dad's pedigree. What gene's are they caring? Genetics play a big part in problems that can cause these pups and new owners a life time of heart ache.
> Where did the parents come from, I see nothing. I see nothing that says they show their dogs. Am I missing something?
> From the web site I would not buy a dog from them.
> JMO.


Not a fancy website, but LarMor dogs are shown quite regularly here in the Carolinas.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

I agree, the website needs some more info! Current show pics, etc. This is a good lesson about 'not judging a breeder by their website.' I agree with Marsha, if I wasn't familiar with this breeder, I would think hmmm. But I know that isn't the case!

Here is a link to some of their pedigrees, on the maltese data base. 
WebGeneal 4.7.0 (2004.05.01)


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

Tanner's Mom said:


> LarMor Maltese has a little boy & girl available soon. They're 9 weeks old and she anticipates they'll weigh 5#s but said it's kinda hard to tell at this age. Anyway, contact her at larmormaltese.com.


Hi Marti, 

I am curious how you heard about the dogs as the information you posted is not listed on that website. 



jmm said:


> Year ago I had a lovely pup out of one of her studs...


Jackie, do you mean you held? LOL, I was trying to figure out what you meant when you said you had a pup out of one of her studs. :HistericalSmiley:



theboyz said:


> Tanner's Mom, first I would want to know the Mom and Dad's pedigree. What gene's are they caring? Genetics play a big part in problems that can cause these pups and new owners a life time of heart ache.
> Where did the parents come from, I see nothing. I see nothing that says they show their dogs. Am I missing something?
> From the web site I would not buy a dog from them.
> JMO.





bellaratamaltese said:


> I agree, the website needs some more info! Current show pics, etc. This is a good lesson about 'not judging a breeder by their website.' I agree with Marsha, if I wasn't familiar with this breeder, I would think hmmm. But I know that isn't the case!
> 
> Here is a link to some of their pedigrees, on the maltese data base.
> WebGeneal 4.7.0 (2004.05.01)


Stacy, this is very true. This website tells nothing about her successes with producing show dogs or the nice lines she has worked with. 

Even her "about me" page doesn't seem to reflect much about her breeding values. But there are several show breeders in the Carolinas who have worked with her and have some nice dogs from her. I have met them at shows. 

Here is a page with pedigree and pictures of a dog she bred: 
Pedigree: Lar Mor's Sundance of CE
He just finished. 

Here is another: Pedigree: Lar Mor's Paper Image
He is also a finished Champion. 

Here is another breeder/owner/handler who has these dogs from LarMor in their program: 
Our Champions

At any rate, if she had these dogs of her breeding listed on her own website it would make a much different impression. The point I am making with these links is that websites are just one resource in looking for a breeder and good websites can hide a LOT of flaws; bad websites or non-existent ones can hide potential treasures.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Carina, well if *I* could have puppies instead of babies we might be in business ROTFL


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Marti's Frankie is from LarMor:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/64-picture-posts/95060-new-little-boy.html

She just got a little girl from LarMor a few weeks ago:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/64-...nd-out-why-mommy-make-me-wear-de-dwesses.html


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

There are a lot of good breeder's I know that do not have web sites. Most are in the older generation. They don't base who they are on a web site but by what they produce and have out in the ring. 
Loranine has been around a long time. That is why it is always a good idea to go out and actually look at show statistics. Go back a few years too. 
Don't base what you see on the surface of a web site.
JMO


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

Wow, the first impression makes a huge difference. My mistake and I apologize to LarMor. Coming onto their site for the first time I would not know of their success and that they were a good breeder. I would have passed them by.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

theboyz said:


> Wow, the first impression makes a huge difference. My mistake and I apologize to LarMor. Coming onto their site for the first time I would not know of their success and that they were a good breeder. I would have passed them by.


Your comment just adds to my feeling that people need to get to know a breeder and the dogs before deciding who is good, bad or ugly.



Tina said:


> There are a lot of good breeder's I know that do not have web sites. Most are in the older generation. They don't base who they are on a web site but by what they produce and have out in the ring.
> Loranine has been around a long time. That is why it is always a good idea to go out and actually look at show statistics. Go back a few years too.
> Don't base what you see on the surface of a web site.
> JMO


Good point, Tina. And beyond looking at show statistics on the internet, more people should actually go out and meet the breeders, their dogs and their puppies. There are very good breeders out there who do not have websites. But they and/or their dogs can be found at dog shows.


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

Tina said:


> There are a lot of good breeder's I know that do not have web sites. Most are in the older generation. They don't base who they are on a web site but by what they produce and have out in the ring.
> Loranine has been around a long time. That is why it is always a good idea to go out and actually look at show statistics. Go back a few years too.
> Don't base what you see on the surface of a web site.
> JMO


 
I agree 100%!!! In my search for a puppy I encountered many "slick" web sites that said all the right things but didn't turn out to be a place I wanted to get a puppy from. I also spoke to several wonderful breeders that didn't have a web site at all.

It often surprises me here when so many people jump in with a buy/don't buy judgement based solely on a web site. I think we need to be more careful about sticking to the "first hand information only" guideline.


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

Buy, don't buy!!! You bet Puppymom. If a web site says nothing but they have puppies you better stay clear. There was NO info on her site...I have never heard of her and red flags went up. 
I know lots of great breeders without web sites. This breeder I do not know of and like I said....beware of "no info" just selling pups.
How many new people know how to find out if a breeder is a reputable show breeder? 
Puppymom, my intentions are only good and in the interest of new buyers. We foster rescues and see many sick and Breed for Greed leftovers.
I am working with a new buyer right now that has a very sick pup from a bad breeder.
I will continue to question threads about Breeders and hope to educate others. I am not jumping to conclusion just bring facts (no info on the site) to the forefront.


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

theboyz said:


> Buy, don't buy!!! You bet Puppymom. If a web site says nothing but they have puppies you better stay clear. There was NO info on her site...I have never heard of her and red flags went up.
> I know lots of great breeders without web sites. This breeder I do not know of and like I said....beware of "no info" just selling pups.
> How many new people know how to find out if a breeder is a reputable show breeder?
> Puppymom, my intentions are only good and in the interest of new buyers. We foster rescues and see many sick and Breed for Greed leftovers.
> ...


I wasn't referring to your post (I had not even read it) I was speaking in general terms about the number of times I see comments made about breeders based only on the content of their web site.


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

The more that anyone has to offer the better chance of exposing good and bad breeders. The content of their web sight should say it all....good Breeder...bad Breeder.


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## Poppy's mommy (Dec 21, 2007)

MaryH said:


> Your comment just adds to my feeling that people need to get to know a breeder and the dogs before deciding who is good, bad or ugly.
> 
> 
> 
> Good point, Tina. And beyond looking at show statistics on the internet, more people should actually go out and meet the breeders, their dogs and their puppies. There are very good breeders out there who do not have websites. But they and/or their dogs can be found at dog shows.



So true. You should not judge a breeder by their website. Go out to the shows, visit their home and see how things are before you pass judgment.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

If a breeder has a website and is reputable they are going to state (and add photos) of their accomplishments. I realize some don't have websites but if they do, that's what they do.  So, buyer beware of just sites that sell pups with little to no info of the breeder's show history.


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

theboyz said:


> The more that anyone has to offer the better chance of exposing good and bad breeders. The content of their web sight should say it all....good Breeder...bad Breeder.


I am sorry but I do not agree with you. First hand knowledge is far more important that what a person puts on their web site. Many people are not internet savey, or don't have the time to update or maintain websites. In my search I came across some very plain web sites which provided very little information by which to judge a breeder. Many web sites for the top breeders are not regularly maintained and are woefully out of date. As Tina also said, many good breeders doen't even have web sites. 

A well maintained web site that gives all the important information is certainly helpful but I would never take it on face value, I would check to make sure the information provided is correct. 

Talking to the breeder, getting references, checking those references against what the breeder says are all more important than looking at a web site. I believe that the guidelines for the "Breeder" section state we should give "first hand" information. Looking at a web site and passing judgement are not first hand information.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

A well maintained website makes it easier to check them out. That's what forums can do for you or someone looking for a pup. Yes, some people don't use the internet for information, but many (probably most) do these days. Speaking to a breeder on the phone isn't always going to give you the true story without more info from others who know. BYB's are full of information and how to sell that puppy, but often do not back up what they say. That's why the majority of dogs in rescue and shelters are from the BYB.


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

:blink: Oh good grief.......yes of course a web site is not the "Be all, end all".
Only the start of a search. I am saying......if a web site says nothing about their accomplishments and things they are proud of, then I would continue my search. 
There are some bad breeders with great web sites and I would have no problem saying they are bad and don't buy from them. I am only giving my first hand info, know for a fact info.
I gave reasons why THAT web site brought up flags.....others said she was a good breeder, I apologized, and we accomplished something by our discussion. 
If nobody wants to bring up reasons, good or bad, and just post Breeders selling pups, then we are in a sorry state representing our cause to find healthy pups from Breeders that spend their time and money to make sure we get the best.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

Cosy said:


> If a breeder has a website and is reputable they are going to state (and add photos) of their accomplishments. I realize some don't have websites but if they do, *that's what they do.*  So, buyer beware of just sites that sell pups with little to no info of the breeder's show history.


I guess the point I was trying to make about LarMor is that she could have put all of this on her website (dogs she has bred, owned and finished) yet they are not there. I do not know why she doesn't have it there. But here are a couple of guesses. She is probably not internet savvy like those of us who hang out on online forums. She is probably relying on someone to help her make and maintain her website and she probably doesn't think about the website that often. I doubt it gets updated with any frequency. 



theboyz said:


> The more that anyone has to offer the better chance of exposing good and bad breeders. The content of their web sight should say it all....good Breeder...bad Breeder.


Being someone who lives online, I wish this was true. But the reality is that so many bad breeders have excellent websites. Hollybelles had a very attractive website. Before I knew what she was I used to send people to the link of her online illustrated book about dealing with the death of your beloved maltese. She had lovely show pictures and pedigrees. At the time it was one of the best online. Of course, she used it to decieve. 



Cosy said:


> A well maintained website makes it easier to check them out. That's what forums can do for you or someone looking for a pup. Yes, some people don't use the internet for information, but many (probably most) do these days. Speaking to a breeder on the phone isn't always going to give you the true story without more info from others who know. BYB's are full of information and how to sell that puppy, but often do not back up what they say. That's why the majority of dogs in rescue and shelters are from the BYB.


It is very true that websites can give you clues, and yes sometimes you can see red flags on a website you would never see/hear from speaking to that person face to face. For instance, if you see a buy now button with a link to your visa/mastercard, clearly this is a huge red flag. Other red flags can be harder to spot. We had a thread recently where folks were looking at wonderful show pictures of dogs on a website and called the breeder a show breeder. In the end it did not appear that the breeder had ever shown one of her own dogs. She had sold one for show. She had also acquired one that had been finished. IMHO that did not make her a "show breeder. Yet the appearance of her website gave many folks a sense of comfort. 

However, I think the point that is being made here is that savvy internet users are able to create perfect storefront windows to showcase their dogs. A website is not the same as visiting the breeders home no matter how many pictures they take of their dogs in cute setting around the home. 

On the other hand, you may overlook or dismiss a breeder based on a bad website. I can think of one very well known breeder who has several pages that do not link to any information. Her about us page doesn't link. This has been the case for years. It is like the website is half-done. Does that make her a bad breeder? Clearly not. Just makes it harder to learn about her online. 



theboyz said:


> :blink:
> I gave reasons why THAT web site brought up flags.....others said she was a good breeder, I apologized, and we accomplished something by our discussion.
> If nobody wants to bring up reasons, good or bad, and just post Breeders selling pups, then we are in a sorry state representing our cause to find healthy pups from Breeders that spend their time and money to make sure we get the best.


Marsha, I don't blame you for your reaction to that website. Without any knowledge of the breeder I would have had the same reaction. I don't know Larraine Moren at all so I can not evaluate her myself. What I posted was to show that her website is not a very good record of her or her dogs' accomplishments. I do not blame you for raising what you saw as red flags. 

I will continue to use websites as a tool in my research. I think they should be one of the tools we use. However, research when buying a puppy or considering a dog means doing a lot more than looking only at the surface. 

This is another reason why I think people need to be very careful about coming to the forum and posting puppy available pictures from websites of breeders that they do not know much about. 

I personally only feel confident recommending a handful of breeders even after all my time in this breed and my more recent time at shows. That does not mean that I do not believe there are not MANY more good ones out there, but if I do not know the breeder personally, haven't seen their dogs personally, and haven't gotten to know the values of the person firsthand, then I would be very hesitant to give a true endorsement of their puppies. For me it isn't enough to see a website, or their name on AMA list, or their dogs listed in show results. Those are clues. But they do not complete the picture enough for me.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

What makes me nervous is when there are only dogs being sold on a site and no history. It's usually the other way around. You don't see, Angel, Marcris and some others pasting pics of pups to be sold. I consider the websites as info regarding their participation in the dog world and show world rather than a sales site.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

There are several wonderful Maltese breeders in South Carolina that have very plain or no website at all. They are known by reputation so a website needs only to give contact information. Marti is a wealth of information on show breeders in SC so I'd recommend anyone looking in that area pm her.

I do think these puppy available threads can backfire on the breeder being recommended. This one is a good example. Another one is the recent thread about the Diamond retiree, Blue Jade (referred to as Blue Jay in the thread). There was so much speculation about how many litters she had, it apparently upset the breeder.


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

I doubt that Loraine even considers her web site as a means to be really serious about selling puppies. She probably has the site because everyone she knows thinks she should have one. Up keep on a web site is a lot of work. It can be intimidating. Even with templates it isn't all that easy.
A web site is just the beginning of a relationship with a breeder. My thoughts are to always keep an open mind and do research on that breeder as you can. Find the good and the not so good and go from there.


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

Marti has lunch with Laraine about 2-3 times a month and that is why she always knows if Laraine has retirees or pups available. Marti also sees Laraine at the shows around SC. Marti's Frankie and Jamie are from Laraine. I only know this because Marti usually calls me when she is on the road to meet Laraine. :HistericalSmiley:


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