# Feeling a bit despairing



## pinkflamingo (Jun 27, 2009)

I guess I just need some encouragement.

The girls (5 and 6 months) are still not toilet trained properly. I am working on taking them out to pee every 2 hours and rewarding them when they go, but they still are having trouble. When I take them out, it takes MJ a long time to eliminate. Zoey goes right away and at least seems to understand when we go outside, she is supposed to pee. Both still pee/poo inside the house when they feel like it. They know they get treats when they go outside, but they don't seem to understand they are not supposed to go in the house. I have read the potty training threads here and books and articles online, and I am not really sure what I'm doing wrong, but I would really like to have them trained before the snow starts to fall. Are they getting too old to learn properly? I tried with the pee-pee pads, and they really were not understanding they are supposed to pee on those. I tried to train them on those for a good 2 months, and we got nowhere. I feel bad leaving them in their crates for longer than 20 mins or so... but maybe I need to get more used to leaving them in their crates when I am too busy to watch closely? There also seems to be conflicting info on what to do when I catch them peeing in the house. By the time I carry them outside, they don't have to pee anymore and don't seem to associate it with the fact that they should go outside to pee.

Any thoughts/suggestions/hugs?


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Oh I defintely have a hug for you :grouphug: 

I think Jackie (JMM), has some excellent advice about this. If they don't go outside, put them back in their crate for about 5 to 10 minutes, then right outside again, and keep repeating this until they do go outside.

I am sure she will see this thread and others who will give you wonderful advice. My past babies, were reallllly difficult to train.

My Mia would get confused, until I got Leo....and Leo came to me fully trained so she just followed suit. I use the washable pee pads. When I first got Mia and Leo....I had one down in their X pen, and a lot down outside of it....as they got a little older, I would slowly take one pad away outside their pen...and reduce the quantity. I just thought this would increase their changes of success, if I had more pads down in the beginning.

I don't think it is ever too late to train, so don't feel discouraged.

I wish I had the answers for you, but I know others will, but here's another hug, :grouphug:


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

Awwww, I am sorry and wish I had the right answer.

Let me tell you what worked for me....
If you can devote a couple of days entirely to the pups. NOTHING else!!!!
Every 10 mins ( to start with ) carry them outside and say "potty out". Try to wait until they do something and get really excited, small treat etc. Back inside.
If you have to, hook them with a leash around your waist so they are not out of sight. Remember these days are only for potty training. We used a bell and would ring noses against the bell.
If someone squats in the house you are right there to catch the accident...."NO, potty out!!" carry outside and say again "potty out".

This worked for us and we have never had an accident in the house. Hard couple of day and you have to keep up with it but works. During that time our guys only got treats outside as rewards.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

A few tips....

Set a timer for 2 minutes when you go outside. If they don't go in that time, they go in their crate for 20 minutes and repeat. NO freedom unless they have gone potty. 

Your main issues here is too much unsupervised freedom. If they will hold it gated in one room, that room is okay to leave them in when you can't watch. Otherwise the crates are the best idea. Each time you let the dog have an accident it reinforces going in the house. Relieving themselves is a naturally self-rewarding thing. The leashing them to yourself is also a great idea. 

If they have an accident, calming give a no reward marker (I say uh oh) and put them up while you clean it up. I've also never had luck with the carry outside...mine are usually done, too. Remember you don't want to get angry or be stern with them. Just an "oh dear whoops" and put them up so you can clean up. Saying "no" or anything punitive like that can backfire in making the dog not want to go potty in front of you. 

What will make all of this easier for you is to make a schedule for the whole day. Put it on the fridge and check it off as you go. When your dogs has a set eating time, potty time, play time, etc. their bodies will learn when to expect to go. 

Playing puppies often need to go to the bathroom more than usual. You may need to add in an extra potty time when your dogs are playing.


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## pinkflamingo (Jun 27, 2009)

Thank you guys!

Those are great tips, JMM, thanks! I will definitely do the schedule thing. How often do you think is good to take them out to go potty when they are gated into the room with me? I am home pretty much all the time, so I am flexible. Do you think it would help if I brought them out one by one? Or do you think it would be good for MJ to learn off Zoey?


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Well, I always think 1 on 1 gives them less distraction, but whatever works for you. 

Why don't you start with every hour or hour and a half. What I do is when I can tell which times they do not need to go, I cut that time out. In a few days you'll start to get a better idea. When in doubt, start more often than you think you might need.


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## Malsam (Sep 28, 2007)

u may also like to know when is the best time to send them out for potty....

1. when they just awake
2. after a meal, sometimes before...especially the greedy ones, if you have a fixed timing for your meals
3. after a nap
4. after some walks (some took longer some come faster)
5. after rigorous play

During these time you want to standby your leashes and send them out. That should spare you more time and attention to catch them in the act.

Also to take note, places where they have defecate before, you need to thoroughly clean it. Use a UV light to help you find 1...normal cleaning agent will not help. If you didn't clear that area up, they will still get accident.


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## pinkflamingo (Jun 27, 2009)

They are doing better (thanks for the tips!). They go pee in the right place about 80% of the time, but they are having trouble understanding that they are supposed to poo in the same place that they pee. Any ideas? I have tried picking them up and bringing them outside, I have tried picking up a tiny bit of their poo and smearing it on the ground where we go to the bathroom so that they smell it. Any other ideas?


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## Starsmom (Jan 31, 2009)

QUOTE (PinkFlamingo @ Sep 11 2009, 08:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=828717


> They are doing better (thanks for the tips!). They go pee in the right place about 80% of the time, but they are having trouble understanding that they are supposed to poo in the same place that they pee. Any ideas? I have tried picking them up and bringing them outside, I have tried picking up a tiny bit of their poo and smearing it on the ground where we go to the bathroom so that they smell it. Any other ideas?[/B]


Happy to see the pups are making headway in their potty training. If your expecting the job to be done in one place I doubt it's going to happen. Star never pooped in the same place he peed in - he always walked away and around after peeing then made a deposit usually in 2 or 3 different places before he was finished. And if there's "dirt" already there he wouldn't poop there either. :huh:


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## pinkflamingo (Jun 27, 2009)

Ahh dogs... such complicated creatures. 

I never had trouble training my german shepherd. He kind of picked it up really quickly... but I guess this is why people say small dogs are harder to train.


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## Malsam (Sep 28, 2007)

QUOTE (PinkFlamingo @ Sep 12 2009, 11:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=828717


> They are doing better (thanks for the tips!). They go pee in the right place about 80% of the time, but they are having trouble understanding that they are supposed to poo in the same place that they pee. Any ideas? I have tried picking them up and bringing them outside, I have tried picking up a tiny bit of their poo and smearing it on the ground where we go to the bathroom so that they smell it. Any other ideas?[/B]


I read a book saying if they are housebroken, they will do it every time. If they still misses it, then you may have to train them all over again.

I find the smearing the toilet area with poo and pee not really that workable for me. What I will just do is to observe those timing, and when you catch them in the act, quickly issue a command, then send them to the right place. I find that using a command for both pee and poo they will get the idea.


QUOTE (PinkFlamingo @ Sep 12 2009, 02:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=828743


> Ahh dogs... such complicated creatures.
> 
> I never had trouble training my german shepherd. He kind of picked it up really quickly... but I guess this is why people say small dogs are harder to train. [/B]


wait till u get a bichon, my bichon friends say they are impossible to housebreak


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