# Help-pray



## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

It is 2:00 PM here & Lisi is having a delayed reaction to the Rabies shot--reaached her vet about 40 min from me. She said go to ER vet---she isn't in either---she is sending us to pharmacy for cortisone drops as she is now away from the practice. Dwt. went to pick up! Please pray for all of us.

Her eyes started to turn red rims & swell up & she is scratching & thrashing about. My heart is crazy racing. I need to be calm.


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## Tanner's Mom (May 27, 2005)

Oh dear, prayers for Lisi.


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## Madison's Mom (Dec 26, 2007)

Sending prayers, Sandi.


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

Praying for Liesl right now.


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## Maglily (Feb 3, 2009)

I hope she's OK soon, how awful.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

It is about 30 min. now. DH got the cortisone at the pharmacy & we have administered lst dose---and I sent the attached photo to the vet that gave her the injection this AM (she won't be back in her office until 5:30 & neither will the ER vet). This photo was taken about 10 min. after the cortisone was given. I have no idea about long term effects, etc. so need to try & read up now. She is definitely doing better than before the drops, but doesn't want to be held---she is still thrashing a bit, shaking her head & scratching. The eye rims are still swollen, the eyes seem less squinted, I am not sure how much they have gone down, some for sure. I hope we are out of the woods here.
Edit: thank you for all prayers, please don't stop yet!


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh Sandi, i know how very worried you were about Lisi getting the rabies vaccine. Prayers going out to Lisi, you and Dwight. I pray that the thrashing stops soon and that the cortisone drops will help. :grouphug:rayer::grouphug:


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## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

omg PRAYING !!!!!!


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

Oh Sandi that has to be so frightening !! My malt Eerie had that reaction, but it happened sooner. I was in the car coming home from the vets. I turned around and took him back to the office. His skin also was bright pink. From then on they did pre treat him before the rabies shot. I guess they pre treated him with Benadryl?? I'm praying that Liesl gets better now and you too! I know it's hard to be calm when our fluffs are sick or an emergency comes up.


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Saying prayers that Liesl and you will be ok. Please keep us posted. Sorry that this had to happen to sweet little Liesl and that by now that med have kicked in and that she is doing much better.


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## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

Any news on Liesl ?????? im worried


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Just checking for an update on Lisi. I wonder why the vet didn't want you to pretreat with Benadryl before her vaccine...just thinking out loud. I'm continuing prayers for Lisi.


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

Oh poor Lisi. Praying that she's ok real soon.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

It is about 3:30 PM here & Lisi is very, very quiet---no thrashing at least but does not seem to want to be handled at all. She is hiding out in the study by herself. Her rims are still pretty pink (not so red now) & a bit swollen, but certainly not as bad as before. I am thinking we should drive back to the office where she got her shot at around 5:30 when they reopen. I did send a copy of the pix to the vet.
My regular vet is out having had surgery herself, so this is the younger vet who gave her the shot where she had the reaction last spring. 
I had to quit reading about all the things that might go wrong as it was too up-setting (neurological after effects, etc.). It all happened so quickly w/the swelling---almost in a matter of minutes after about 2 hours.
Kitzel seems to understand that Lisi isn't doing well. He is hovering over her w/a puzzled look.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

mysugarbears said:


> Just checking for an update on Lisi. I wonder why the vet didn't want you to pretreat with Benadryl before her vaccine...just thinking out loud. I'm continuing prayers for Lisi.


My regular vet does not pre-medicate because she feels it merely masks something she needs to know about. I felt safe leaving after 1/2 hr. as Lisi was so quiet---now I realize her BP had probably dropped quickly w/the shot administration.


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Praying for Liesl.
It is so hard to watch and wait and worry.


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## maltese manica (Nov 6, 2012)

:smscare2: that picture oh my gosh!!! that is scary. I am so sorry and am praying for you both!!! Please keep us updated!


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Sandi, I am just now seeing this..I am so sorry...I know firsthand what this is like as I have been through it with my Lily..it is so scary. Has Lisi already had a steroid injection? If Lisi were mine, I would take her to the ER as soon as possible..I don't like the way she is acting even if the swelling is down...I am praying for you all..:grouphug::grouphug:


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

edelweiss said:


> My regular vet does not pre-medicate because she feels it merely masks something she needs to know about. I felt safe leaving after 1/2 hr. as Lisi was so quiet---now I realize her BP had probably dropped quickly w/the shot administration.


Your vet is wrong, IMHO..I know Lisi has already had one anaphylactic reaction..how many does she have to have before the vet will premedicate?:angry:


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

edelweiss said:


> It is about 3:30 PM here & Lisi is very, very quiet---no thrashing at least but does not seem to want to be handled at all. She is hiding out in the study by herself. Her rims are still pretty pink (not so red now) & a bit swollen, but certainly not as bad as before. I am thinking we should drive back to the office where she got her shot at around 5:30 when they reopen. I did send a copy of the pix to the vet.
> My regular vet is out having had surgery herself, so this is the younger vet who gave her the shot where she had the reaction last spring.
> I had to quit reading about all the things that might go wrong as it was too up-setting (neurological after effects, etc.). It all happened so quickly w/the swelling---almost in a matter of minutes after about 2 hours.
> Kitzel seems to understand that Lisi isn't doing well. He is hovering over her w/a puzzled look.


Poor little thing. I feel so bad for her.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Sandi - just seeing this. Praying that little Lisi is recovering from this.


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## Zoe's Mom88 (Apr 25, 2011)

Sandi, I just saw your post and I am so sorry your going through this with Lisi. I have been putting off doing Zoe's rabies shot for months because I don't want to go through this. Prayers that she is back to herself soon. rayer:


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Praying for all of you.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Oh, Sandi. I am so sorry! I pray that Lisi recovers. 

Lady had a terrible reaction to her last rabies vaccine when she was ten. She never got one after that. She got a cortisone injection, but also had to be on oral steriods for a full week.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Oh Sandi. I am so sorry :smcry:. You must be beside yourself. The only reaction I have dealt with was Sammie's at HH to F-Plus. It was nothing like this, but I saw how sensitive some of these little ones are :w00t: to meds.
Sandi, could been another one, but I thought she had a reaction last year to her Rabies, do you still have to give it for travel?

I am praying for you all. rayer:rayer:
{{{hugs}}}


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## ckanen2n (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh my! Praying for Lisie's full recovery. You are a good Maltese mommy to get her help so quickly. Please keep us posted!


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh Sandi, this is terrible! I don't even know what to say. I will be sending hugs and loving thoughts to both of you and waiting anxiously to hear that she is okay.


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

Ladysmom said:


> Oh, Sandi. I am so sorry! I pray that Lisi recovers.
> 
> Lady had a terrible reaction to her last rabies vaccine when she was ten. She never got one after that. She got a cortisone injection, but also had to be on oral steriods for a full week.


I am praying for Lisi! Zooey had a similar reaction to Advantix, and after she got a cortisone shot, she started getting better. I am hopeful that Lisi will be fine! 

Hugs,


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

aprilb said:


> Your vet is wrong, IMHO..I know Lisi has already had one anaphylactic reaction..how many does she have to have before the vet will premedicate?:angry:


Sandi, 
I agree with April about the pre-medication.

And I would not give her Rabies shot again. I thought I read all we needed was documentation from the Vet to fore-go Rabies.  But I don't know about your situation going to many diff country's. 
Still praying for Lisel.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Oh no! so sorry to hear about little Lisl. Hoping to hear soon she is ok. You must be out of your mind with worry. My thoughts are with you :grouphug: rayer:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Update:
It is 8:35 & I just spoke w/the vet---she is certain Lisi went into shock. We are not out of the woods yet. She asked me to give her Neutrical (which she ate for me) but she is hiding. She is going to speak w/the head vet & call me back. So we need continued prayers. She is quite pathetic as she is just not herself.
I am doing better, as is DH, but we have to say we are concerned. 

For those of you asking---we are required by law to have the Rabies vaccine (which recently reappeared here in Greece) but it is international law & no exceptions are generally made. Both dogs have passports and they have to be attested by a regional vet that Rabies vaccine is current before any travel. It has to be signed & documented w/in 10 days of travel & dogs must be microchipped also.


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

Please keep us updated and I pray she is back to normal soon.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Thanks for the update. Still pretty scary  
My Penny will not be getting the Rabies, ever. But it means she can't leave Canada. Lola has had one and won't get another. Really no risk where we are. 

Will be watching to keep up to date...


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## elly (Sep 11, 2006)

Dear Sandi, I am praying for Liesl and for you my friend.


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## Leila'sMommy (Oct 20, 2012)

I am so sorry and know this has to be scary and keeping you worried!! I agree with Sandi too. I have Leila pretreated every time before she gets vaccines. I had much rather prevent something like that from happening that to find out if it will and then have to go through all you're going through now. What if a reaction were to happen in the middle of the night while everyone is asleep and you wake up to find a dead puppy? My vet agrees with me too. I work in healthcare ( human though) and know how quickly something can happen. I just don't want to take the chance that something might happen. Now that she's gotten the cortisone, now she should hopefully be on the mend. Hugs!!


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

Oh Sandi! How scary! I hope she will be okay soon x


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

OMG!.. Just popped in and saw this.... how very scarey!!! I certainly will be praying your baby pulls thru this quickly with no lingering affects!! A couple prayers for you and hubby too as i know this must be so stressful!


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Just came back to see if there was an update. Sandi still continuing prayers for Lisi. :grouphug:rayer::grouphug:

Sandi did she have a 3 year or 1 year (can remember if they offer 3 year in Greece) the reason i'm asking is that you'll probably be coming to the states more once your daughter, sil and grandbaby move to FL and would it be possible for Lisi to get the IMRAB 3 TF when your in the states when it's time for her next rabies vaccine if you can't get a waiver and it's close enough to the date, that way she and you won't hopefully have to go through this again.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Sandi, 
Thanks for the update. :wub: Oh, I am hoping this passes quickly. It's hard to see them hiding---but guess that is what they need to do :innocent:. Sammie did same thing after a steroid shot. Can you get the 3 year Rabies that is thermisol free over there?

edit:
just saw Deb's post. I was thinking same thing, if not in Greece maybe time it so you can get it here.


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## wkomorow (Aug 26, 2011)

Dear Sandi, 

I am so sorry to hear about Liesl. Hoping that she gets better soon.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphalaxis

Adjuncts
Antihistamines (both H1 and H2), while commonly used and assumed effective based on theoretical reasoning, are poorly supported by evidence. 

Apparently there is a difference of opinion among professionals on whether antihistamines actually help prevent true anaphylactic reactions. 
Since I am not a vet I chose to follow my vet's advice---maybe she is wrong? I don't know. I am not looking to lay blame. I just want Lisi to be ok. 
You can imagine now that I am fearful of giving her ANY vaccines. I need to find out why she reacts to two completely different kinds of injections?


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## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

Oh Sweet Sandi ,

still praying for your little Lisi !!!!! oxoxoxoxoxxo


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

I would definitely stick to titerering if you can for Lisl. I hope it is available in Greece. The law and rabies is another matter 

Get will little Lisl


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

I understand your feelings Sandi. So much conflicting info out there. My Vet does pre-med with Rabies if needed. He is all I have to go by. Ya know I would find out if it was thermisol free. Reason I say this is bec a pharmacist told me when I got my shingles vac that it was a thermisol free shot. I was surprised to hear him say that, and told him I have heard of it only with my pets shots. He said it can cause severe reactions in dogs too. Just sharing.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Life in the US is so different than here:
1. There is no possibility of titers here in Greece---I have checked.
2. There is no TF vaccine available here in Greece---Lisi's shot was due this Sun. & if I am one day late & then vaccinate---she can not travel for 30 days. It had to be done. I had put if off long enough while I searched for a TF vaccine.
3. There is only a l yr. rabies available due to the law which requires a yearly vaccination.

It is clear that I need to find out WHY Lisi reacts to vaccines of different types (Rabies & Lepto so far). I am fearful of all vaccines now because of our experience.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Bless your heart Sandi. I am sorry your in this situation. If anyone can find the answer you will. I am continuing to pray for you all.:innocent:


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## Barb and the boys (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks for the update on Lisi, sending lots of prayers for your sweet baby.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Thank you all so much for your prayers. :tender:rayer::ThankYou:

I am going to call an early quit for tonight as it has been a stressful few hours. Tomorrow is another day! Big hugs to all. :wub:


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## maltese#1fan (Feb 20, 2012)

Sandi, I just saw your post and am praying that Liesl is doing better. I know how scary it is when your baby has any kind of reaction to a vaccine. Heidi had a similar reaction to a distempter vaccine. She got so sick on the car ride home from the vet that we turned around and went right back. Never allowed her to have a distemper shot after that. Will they allow you to get a waiver so you never have to go through this again?


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

Sounds like you are stuck between a rock and a hard place  I think you will have to find out more about exemptions. Finding out what the allergy is won't be easy. I don't know if they can do skin testing for the compounds used. Seems daunting.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Sandi, I was just now able to get online ... and, your thread is the only one I have read so far. I am so, so sorry precious Lisi, you, Dwight ... And, Kitzel, too, are going through all of this.

Of course, my prayers are with all of you.

I am wondering if Greece has the more recent rabies vaccine that is supposed to be a lot safer for our fluff babies. Also, for any needed future vaccines ... could you plan to have the fluff babies vaccinated in the US instead of Greece? 

As far as the Benadryl ... we were always advised to give it to Snowball before his vaccines. If anything, I don't see how it could hurt to prefer-medicate with it in the future for Lisi. It does seem, unfortunately, as though these vaccines are high risk for her.

I will be checking in for updates. I wish I could be there in person to give you some hugs. My prayers and positive thoughts are with all of you. 

Love and hugs ...

Marie


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

On my way to bed I noticed Lisi had red swellings on her abdomen---not too huge but looks like hives. The vet still hasn't called back but promised she would when she can catch a minute!


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

edelweiss said:


> On my way to bed I noticed Lisi had red swellings on her abdomen---not too huge but looks like hives. The vet still hasn't called back but promised she would when she can catch a minute!



Oh, poor Lisi!


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

That sure does look like hives! Hoping and praying that she'll be well soon. Poor baby!


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## dragonsdawn (Jul 23, 2012)

OMG i just got home from work ( been there since 4am) and wanted to check in before i crashed ... my prayers will be with you and Lisi. I hope she keeps getting better.


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## ckanen2n (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh Sandi, I am sorry Lisel is going through this! I agree with Debbie - if she get's the rabies shot again, you do it in the US, so she can get the Imrab-TF rabies. Also, My vet gave Gio a Homeopathic prior to vaccinating and I had benadryl on hand. You might try the homeopathics - even in Greece! Hugs for you and kisses for Lisei!


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Still praying for Sweet Lisi....


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## aksm4 (Nov 28, 2011)

Lisi please get well soon !!!!! we all love you and your mommy xoxoxoxox


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## donnad (Aug 22, 2006)

Poor baby...praying she will be fine.


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

Lisi baby we all love you so much. Ray, MiMi and Auntie Sylvia are sending you lots of hugs and kisses...especially kisses on your sweet little tummy. Tell your mommy not to worry (ha!) you will be all better really soon. Sweet dreams.


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## TLR (Nov 13, 2011)

Sandi I am just seeing this and praying for Lisi. This one seems worse than the first reaction. When I read this post, I knew something went wrong. Please know that you are in my thoughts and Prayers.


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## SweetMalteseAngels (Oct 16, 2011)

Awwww poor Lisi. She is in my thoughts and prayers. Hope all works out well. Hugs to you Sandi.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Oh Sandi, that poor little hot tummy. I wonder if these adverse reactions get worse with each shot :confused1: .
Hope you all are getting some needed rest tonight.:Flowers 2:


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## harrysmom (Sep 28, 2007)

Sandi,

So sorry to hear about Liesl. None of my dogs have had any reactions to shots, thank God, but my vet does give Sprite a shot of Benadryl before her shots. She feels that it helps and my feeling is that it can't hurt, so why not try it. Harry's internal medicine doctor told me that Benadryl is a very safe drug and that he would have no problem with me giving it to Harry, even with his liver issues, if need be. 

Hugs.
Debbie


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## Daisy's Mommie (Sep 24, 2012)

*Prayers*

Sandy...sending prayers for Leisel and for you.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Oh man...this is just awful. I would just hate to be in your predicament. No easy answer any which way you look at it. Just be sure to give her some Nutri-Cal every couple of hours. As long as she will take that from you, then you know she's not gone into shock. It probably isn't necessary but it would be what would help to reassure me. I just feel so terrible for all of you!


As for the pre-med thing, I know you aren't really asking for input here but for future, I guess I'm in the group that says pre-med. Ok so this is a new concept to me that it may be masking something they need to know about later and I haven't taken the time to really think about they why's...but my first thought is...why in the heck do they need to know there was an allergic reaction like this if they are going to have to continue giving the vaccine due to how the law is written? Why, if pre-medicating with children's Benadryl DOES/MIGHT hinder or even lessen an allergic reaction, would they need to know about it? It doesn't change anything does it? By law the vaccine must still be given, right? And if pre-medicating with children's Benadryl doesn't actually hurt anything, then why not give it even if there may not be proof it does help? And so there may not be an actual scientific paper written on it. So does that mean the tens of thousands of vets that do tell people to give it when there has been a bee sting and reaction or a reaction to a vaccine negate the fact that it has helped many animals? The same thing holds true for glucosamine & chondroitin. There has been no actual scientific paper written on it. Yet thousands of humans, human doctors, vets and pet parents can attest to the fact that it does help.


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## CorkieYorkie (Apr 10, 2012)

I am keeping Liesl in my thoughts... Ozzie had a bad reaction 10 days after his rabies vaccine (so not 100% sure it was the vaccine but my gut tells me it was) which was SO scary... his little neck swelled up, he had a few hives but his skin was very pink all over  It was so scary, thankfully I was able to take him to the vet within a couple hours and she gave him a shot, I believe....

I hope little Liesl feels better ASAP!! :heart:


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Oh my~!  I'm thinking of little Lisi and you, Sandi. You must be beyond worried... Lisi certainly looks and acts like she has an anaphylactic reaction. I hope the vet sees her soon. I'm not a vet, but in anaphylactic reactions for humans, we give steroids, H1 blockers (ie. Benadryl) and H2 blockers (ie. Pepcid, zantac), and even epinephrine intramuscular and IV fluids as needed. GI upset is a part of anaphylaxis so I'd watch for that too. I hope that there will be a better alternative for Lisi and future rabies vaccines-- maybe administer the TF version if you happen to be in the states around that time? Future allergic reactions can be even MORE severe with repeated exposures so I can understand your fear of any future vaccines. Many prayers are being lifted up for you two :hugs:


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> As for the pre-med thing, I know you aren't really asking for input here but for future, I guess I'm in the group that says pre-med. Ok so this is a new concept to me that it may be masking something they need to know about later and I haven't taken the time to really think about they why's...but my first thought is...why in the heck do they need to know there was an allergic reaction like this if they are going to have to continue giving the vaccine due to how the law is written? Why, if pre-medicating with children's Benadryl DOES/MIGHT hinder or even lessen an allergic reaction, would they need to know about it? It doesn't change anything does it? By law the vaccine must still be given, right? And if pre-medicating with children's Benadryl doesn't actually hurt anything, then why not give it even if there may not be proof it does help? And so there may not be an actual scientific paper written on it. So does that mean the tens of thousands of vets that do tell people to give it when there has been a bee sting and reaction or a reaction to a vaccine negate the fact that it has helped many animals? The same thing holds true for glucosamine & chondroitin. There has been no actual scientific paper written on it. Yet thousands of humans, human doctors, vets and pet parents can attest to the fact that it does help.


:thumbsup: I agree! I get weekly allergy shots and I am *always* supposed to take an antihistamine beforehand. 

Merial, the makers of IMRAB TF (thimerasol free) rabies vaccines is an international company with manufacturing sites in France, Italy and the UK. It makes no sense why you can't get the vaccine in Europe.

US.Merial.com : Merial Around the World : Manufacturing


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## Summergirl73 (Sep 18, 2011)

Oh Sandi I am just now seeing this!! How is sweet Lisi doing? Poor baby and poor Mommy! Lifting up a faithful prayer and sending your huge hugs.


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## dntdelay (May 27, 2011)

Sandi how is Lisl doing? Any better? Let her know that she is in our thoughts!


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## Johita (Jul 10, 2009)

Oh Sandy. I am praying for you and for Lisi.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Sandi - I was so worried reading this. We lost our internet in Vermont and had to get a new modem so we couldn't get on line until tonight. I'm so sorry that Lisel is having this reaction. I hope that you can get her to a doctor asap. It does sound like an allergic reaction and possibly anaphylactic. The worries in that type of reaction is drop of BP, swelling on the inside causing breathing difficulties and can be very serious. They really need to treat with the right meds. I'm hoping that it will stay with external swelling and hives but since our dear dogs can't talk it's hard to tell what's going on. I'm praying that she will be okay. After a reaction like that they are wiped out for days. You will be on my mind until we hear back from you. I'm hoping you can get some sort of waiver after this reaction. I can't imagine that they could be so heartless as to risk the life of a dog for that shot.

As most of you know my son nearly died when he had several food allergic reactions when he was 2 and his throat swelled shut. He had several others in later years as well. For kids or adults ,you need to administer Epi, benedryl, and steroids if it's serious. David was seen by the top food allergist in the world, and I produced over a dozen videos on food allergy and life threatening reactions with the top docs in the world and the leading food allergy organization. The doctors's did not believe in pre-medicating for kids if they were going to be in a situation where there might be allergens around. In the case of vaccines, they watch for signs of allergy and usually keep kids who may have a history of allergy in the waiting room for an hour or so. Their feeling was if you pre-medicate it masks the reactions that need to be treated as soon as possible with the right meds. If you're going to have an anaphylactic reaction, using benedryl is like putting a bandaid on a gaping wound. It will mask some of the reaction but then often it comes back way worse because it's been given the time to develop. One of the most dangerous reactions is called a bi-phasic reaction where kids are treated for anaphylaxis, even with the right meds and several hours later they get a far worse secondary reaction which can be fatal too. That's why you aren't supposed to leave a hospital for at least 4-6 hours after Epi treatment because of this secondary issue. This all comes from my 20 years of working with top allergists and I wouldn't think it's much different with pets and severe allergies. 

Sending you, Lisel and Dwight hugs and kisses. I know that poor Kitzel must be worried as well. :grouphug:


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## educ8m (May 19, 2010)

Oh Sandi, I am so sorry that Liesl had such a bad reaction. Gracie had a bad reaction to the rabies shot and it changed her personality. Over 18 months later she is finally getting back to her old self. She'll never get another rabies vaccine. I hope you are able to get Liesl exempted for now on. Praying that she gets to feeling better soon.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

educ8m said:


> Oh Sandi, I am so sorry that Liesl had such a bad reaction. Gracie had a bad reaction to the rabies shot and it changed her personality. Over 18 months later she is finally getting back to her old self. She'll never get another rabies vaccine. I hope you are able to get Liesl exempted for now on. Praying that she gets to feeling better soon.


Isn't Gracie a sister of Charlie ? Thank goodness he has not had a bad reaction to the rabies vaccine. But I asked the vet not to give the full dose and he was okay with it. 

Geez Sandi I hope Liesl is doing okay by now.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

I don't think I can sleep tonight until we hear that Lisi is okay. I know it is six o'clock in the morning in Athens.

My prayers continue for darling Lisi. And, my love and heart is with you, Sandi.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Me too Marie! I am going to go to bed and pray all is better tomorrow am. 
hugs!


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## socalyte (Nov 15, 2010)

Sandi, I'm adding my prayers to everyone's regarding little Liesl. What a scary thing to happen! It doesn't sound like she is a candidate for immunizations, period! Please keep us posted on how she is doing-- until then, trust me, I'm praying hard!rayer:


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## Piccolina (Dec 25, 2009)

:innocent::innocent::innocent::innocent:Sending Angels to look after Lisi:innocent::innocent::innocent::innocent:






*


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

Checking in to see how Lisi is doing. It's three o'clock in the morning in Virginia. And, ten o'clock in the morning in Athens.

Prayers continue for Lisi, her Mommy and Daddy, and her brother, Kitzel. Sending love and hugs your way.


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## Zoe's Mom88 (Apr 25, 2011)

Sandi.....I have been thinking about you all night and hoping all is well. Just checking to see how your all doing. Praying she is better. Hugs to you! :hugging:


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

Just got up and came here immediately to see how little Lisel is doing. I'm praying she is doing much better today!!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Sandi - I was so worried reading this. We lost our internet in Vermont and had to get a new modem so we couldn't get on line until tonight. I'm so sorry that Lisel is having this reaction. I hope that you can get her to a doctor asap. It does sound like an allergic reaction and possibly anaphylactic. The worries in that type of reaction is drop of BP, swelling on the inside causing breathing difficulties and can be very serious. They really need to treat with the right meds. I'm hoping that it will stay with external swelling and hives but since our dear dogs can't talk it's hard to tell what's going on. I'm praying that she will be okay. After a reaction like that they are wiped out for days. You will be on my mind until we hear back from you. I'm hoping you can get some sort of waiver after this reaction. I can't imagine that they could be so heartless as to risk the life of a dog for that shot.
> 
> As most of you know my son nearly died when he had several food allergic reactions when he was 2 and his throat swelled shut. He had several others in later years as well. For kids or adults ,you need to administer Epi, benedryl, and steroids if it's serious. David was seen by the top food allergist in the world, and I produced over a dozen videos on food allergy and life threatening reactions with the top docs in the world and the leading food allergy organization. The doctors's did not believe in pre-medicating for kids if they were going to be in a situation where there might be allergens around. In the case of vaccines, they watch for signs of allergy and usually keep kids who may have a history of allergy in the waiting room for an hour or so. Their feeling was if you pre-medicate it masks the reactions that need to be treated as soon as possible with the right meds. If you're going to have an anaphylactic reaction, using benedryl is like putting a bandaid on a gaping wound. It will mask some of the reaction but then often it comes back way worse because it's been given the time to develop. One of the most dangerous reactions is called a bi-phasic reaction where kids are treated for anaphylaxis, even with the right meds and several hours later they get a far worse secondary reaction which can be fatal too. That's why you aren't supposed to leave a hospital for at least 4-6 hours after Epi treatment because of this secondary issue. This all comes from my 20 years of working with top allergists and I wouldn't think it's much different with pets and severe allergies.
> 
> Sending you, Lisel and Dwight hugs and kisses. I know that poor Kitzel must be worried as well. :grouphug:


:goodpost::ThankYou:

Very intelligently spoken Sue!
I think there is a difference that most people do not realize maybe in a true anaphylactic reaction & an allergic sensitivity. Lisi's reaction both last & this time was a 100% true anaphylactic reaction. I do not believe benadryl would have touched it---and maybe would have complicated her treatment.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

It is Sat. afternoon & we are home from seeing the ER vet this AM. Lisi is resting & trying to figure out what happened to her! Up until about midnight last night it was pretty serious---we were on the phone w/our younger normal vet & she was helping us decide what to do---we went for another round of cortisone---which really helped w/the hives & the swelling in her mouth---those were immediate priorities. Her blood pressure was still pretty low as it is today as well. 
She is going to make it, but we don't know what the long term effects will be. The ER vet said today that we can not give her ANY more vaccines---none. She will work w/us to help find a solution but in her words "it is going to be a big problem."

On another note--we had Ruby our cat in last week for tests & vaccines & today the vet told us that she has diabetes. She is running extra tests that will be back Mon. afternoon. 

For those of you who have questioned why I can't get TF rabies here as it is available in Europe, I would just remind you that Greece is not exactly Europe---it is more Balkan in so many ways. So much of what is available in other countries is not available here---maybe because most companies don't trust Greece to pay their bills so they won't send stuff here? I dunno'? I did look for the TF and had 2 vets looking, even checked through the University here---but was told it is not possible! 
I would gently and kindly remind you of how blessed you are to be able to locate things that are so easily taken for granted. 
I do appreciate your love & concern for us and for Lisi---believe me I do not take that for granted. Thanks especially to all of you who prayed for her---I believe God heard the cry of our hearts!


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

Thank goodness she is doing somewhat better today.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Snowbody said:


> Sandi - I was so worried reading this. We lost our internet in Vermont and had to get a new modem so we couldn't get on line until tonight. I'm so sorry that Lisel is having this reaction. I hope that you can get her to a doctor asap. It does sound like an allergic reaction and possibly anaphylactic. The worries in that type of reaction is drop of BP, swelling on the inside causing breathing difficulties and can be very serious. They really need to treat with the right meds. I'm hoping that it will stay with external swelling and hives but since our dear dogs can't talk it's hard to tell what's going on. I'm praying that she will be okay. After a reaction like that they are wiped out for days. You will be on my mind until we hear back from you. I'm hoping you can get some sort of waiver after this reaction. I can't imagine that they could be so heartless as to risk the life of a dog for that shot.
> 
> As most of you know my son nearly died when he had several food allergic reactions when he was 2 and his throat swelled shut. He had several others in later years as well. For kids or adults ,you need to administer Epi, benedryl, and steroids if it's serious. David was seen by the top food allergist in the world, and I produced over a dozen videos on food allergy and life threatening reactions with the top docs in the world and the leading food allergy organization. The doctors's did not believe in pre-medicating for kids if they were going to be in a situation where there might be allergens around. In the case of vaccines, they watch for signs of allergy and usually keep kids who may have a history of allergy in the waiting room for an hour or so. Their feeling was if you pre-medicate it masks the reactions that need to be treated as soon as possible with the right meds. If you're going to have an anaphylactic reaction, using benedryl is like putting a bandaid on a gaping wound. It will mask some of the reaction but then often it comes back way worse because it's been given the time to develop. One of the most dangerous reactions is called a bi-phasic reaction where kids are treated for anaphylaxis, even with the right meds and several hours later they get a far worse secondary reaction which can be fatal too. That's why you aren't supposed to leave a hospital for at least 4-6 hours after Epi treatment because of this secondary issue. This all comes from my 20 years of working with top allergists and I wouldn't think it's much different with pets and severe allergies.
> 
> Sending you, Lisel and Dwight hugs and kisses. I know that poor Kitzel must be worried as well. :grouphug:


Wow. This is a whole new concept to me. Thanks!




Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

edelweiss said:


> It is Sat. afternoon & we are home from seeing the ER vet this AM. Lisi is resting & trying to figure out what happened to her! Up until about midnight last night it was pretty serious---we were on the phone w/our younger normal vet & she was helping us decide what to do---we went for another round of cortisone---which really helped w/the hives & the swelling in her mouth---those were immediate priorities. Her blood pressure was still pretty low as it is today as well.
> She is going to make it, but we don't know what the long term effects will be. The ER vet said today that we can not give her ANY more vaccines---none. She will work w/us to help find a solution but in her words "it is going to be a big problem."
> 
> On another note--we had Ruby our cat in last week for tests & vaccines & today the vet told us that she has diabetes. She is running extra tests that will be back Mon. afternoon.
> ...


What a nightmare you are living through! I'm so sorry!! Praying for you, Dwight, L,R & K (cuz I'm sure he's stressing with everything that is going on right now) and praying your vet can figure out something so you can continue to travel with Liesel. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## Tanner's Mom (May 27, 2005)

Good to hear that Lisi's doing better.


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm happy Thayer Liesl is doing better, and I'm praying that there is no long term effect.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Lisi & Kitzi are kinda out of it today---just needing to be held!


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## Furbabies mom (Jul 25, 2011)

Oh Bless their little hearts. Brother knows that baby sister was very sick. Hope today is a better day.


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## ckanen2n (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm so glad to hear the immediate reaction is more under control and hoping Lisel has no lasting negative effects. No more vaccines! Poor baby - get well and soak up all this lovin' from your mommy and aunties. Will continue to check back and keep Lisi in out prayers! :heart:


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

edelweiss said:


> :goodpost::ThankYou:
> 
> Very intelligently spoken Sue!
> I think there is a difference that most people do not realize maybe in a true anaphylactic reaction & an allergic sensitivity. Lisi's reaction both last & this time was a 100% true anaphylactic reaction. I do not believe benadryl would have touched it---and maybe would have complicated her treatment.





edelweiss said:


> It is Sat. afternoon & we are home from seeing the ER vet this AM. Lisi is resting & trying to figure out what happened to her! Up until about midnight last night it was pretty serious---we were on the phone w/our younger normal vet & she was helping us decide what to do---we went for another round of cortisone---which really helped w/the hives & the swelling in her mouth---those were immediate priorities. Her blood pressure was still pretty low as it is today as well.
> She is going to make it, but we don't know what the long term effects will be. The ER vet said today that we can not give her ANY more vaccines---none. She will work w/us to help find a solution but in her words "it is going to be a big problem."
> 
> On another note--we had Ruby our cat in last week for tests & vaccines & today the vet told us that she has diabetes. She is running extra tests that will be back Mon. afternoon.
> ...


I should only speak for myself here ... however, I think ALL of your friends meant well with what we have shared from our own personal experiences and with the advice from our vets ... the professionals who should know each of our fluff's needs ... on a more personal basis. I wish I could be more articulate in what I try and express ... however, that seems to be one of my flaws these days.

You are right, Sandi, that we are blessed (well, most of us) to be able to locate things that are so easily taken for granted. I believe God has given me that gift to realize that.

My love and prayers continue for Lisa and all of you. I really did stay up most of the night thinking about your precious little one.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Sandi, I am so glad you took Lisi to the ER...all of you must be exhausted...I am so relieved that she is still with you and resting...I am praying that there will be no long term effects...I stand corrected, thanks to Sue, about premedicating...come to think of it, when this happened to Lily, she was given Benadryl prior to the shot and it did NOTHING..Lily will not be getting any more shots including rabies. You are a great mom and Lisi and Kitzi are blessed to have you...I hope today is a better day, too.
Big hugs!!:grouphug::grouphug:


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Snowbody said:


> Sandi - I was so worried reading this. We lost our internet in Vermont and had to get a new modem so we couldn't get on line until tonight. I'm so sorry that Lisel is having this reaction. I hope that you can get her to a doctor asap. It does sound like an allergic reaction and possibly anaphylactic. The worries in that type of reaction is drop of BP, swelling on the inside causing breathing difficulties and can be very serious. They really need to treat with the right meds. I'm hoping that it will stay with external swelling and hives but since our dear dogs can't talk it's hard to tell what's going on. I'm praying that she will be okay. After a reaction like that they are wiped out for days. You will be on my mind until we hear back from you. I'm hoping you can get some sort of waiver after this reaction. I can't imagine that they could be so heartless as to risk the life of a dog for that shot.
> 
> As most of you know my son nearly died when he had several food allergic reactions when he was 2 and his throat swelled shut. He had several others in later years as well. For kids or adults ,you need to administer Epi, benedryl, and steroids if it's serious. David was seen by the top food allergist in the world, and I produced over a dozen videos on food allergy and life threatening reactions with the top docs in the world and the leading food allergy organization. The doctors's did not believe in pre-medicating for kids if they were going to be in a situation where there might be allergens around. In the case of vaccines, they watch for signs of allergy and usually keep kids who may have a history of allergy in the waiting room for an hour or so. Their feeling was if you pre-medicate it masks the reactions that need to be treated as soon as possible with the right meds. If you're going to have an anaphylactic reaction, using benedryl is like putting a bandaid on a gaping wound. It will mask some of the reaction but then often it comes back way worse because it's been given the time to develop. One of the most dangerous reactions is called a bi-phasic reaction where kids are treated for anaphylaxis, even with the right meds and several hours later they get a far worse secondary reaction which can be fatal too. That's why you aren't supposed to leave a hospital for at least 4-6 hours after Epi treatment because of this secondary issue. This all comes from my 20 years of working with top allergists and I wouldn't think it's much different with pets and severe allergies.
> 
> Sending you, Lisel and Dwight hugs and kisses. I know that poor Kitzel must be worried as well. :grouphug:


Thank you for your very insightful and expert words...I stand corrected..
:goodpost:


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## Orla (Jul 5, 2009)

I'm so glad to hear that Liesl is doing better! Hope she is back to normal soon x


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I should only speak for myself here ... however, I think ALL of your friends meant well with what we have shared from our own personal experiences and with the advice from our vets ... the professionals who should know each of our fluff's needs ... on a more personal basis. I wish I could be more articulate in what I try and express ... however, that seems to be one of my flaws these days.
> 
> You are right, Sandi, that we are blessed (well, most of us) to be able to locate things that are so easily taken for granted. I believe God has given me that gift to realize that.
> 
> My love and prayers continue for Lisa and all of you. I really did stay up most of the night thinking about your precious little one.


Marie, 
Thank you for your deep concern for Lisi---I know your prayers were important to her coming through---believe me I do. I so appreciate everyone's concern & love---it helps when we are feeling so helpless & unable to do much---a real life-line! I am sorry we both had to lose sleep---maybe we could take turns next time! :HistericalSmiley: You are a wonderful Auntie to my two!
I hope I did not come off harshly (although it is something I seem to do well w/out meaning to), I guess my point was that there really is more than one point of view out there and it isn't as simple as we all wish it were. Heaven knows I gave it all I had to locate the best possible vaccine, but I now believe that ANY vaccine would have produced the same results. 
You are very dear to my heart & if I was offensive I offer my sincere & heart-felt apologies. :wub:


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Oh Sandi what good news this am. Lisel is on the mend. :chili: The pics of them in your lap say it all...TIRED...they are precious.:wub::wub: I know you'll figure all this out in time.


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

I got to bed late, and I was so worried last night after the pics of her tummy. I can't tell you how happy your post made me that she is feeling better this morning.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

SammieMom said:


> I got to bed late, and I was so worried last night after the pics of her tummy. I can't tell you how happy your post made me that she is feeling better this morning.


Yes, the wheels got bigger & darker! My youngest daughter gets severe hives since she was very young so I immediately thought they looked like what she had---just glad they appeared before I sacked out & the vet called about that time, so we decided to repeat the cortisone dose. Her throat was also giving her some issues, w/mouth swelling. I am so thankful that people were praying for us because it helped me to stay calm & handle things quickly. I will be forever grateful!:wub:


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

What a relief to hear that Lisi is doing better. I, too, have been very worried. I honestly do have faith that she will be completely well soon and not have lasting ill effects...but still worry. Hugs and kisses to the four of you.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Sylie said:


> What a relief to hear that Lisi is doing better. I, too, have been very worried. I honestly do have faith that she will be completely well soon and not have lasting ill effects...but still worry. Hugs and kisses to the four of you.


Thank you dear Sylie---I am sorry to have worried everyone, but I was in much need of prayer last night/yesterday! I so appreciate your love & concern as it was truly an urgent need for us! I do think it made a great difference in calming me especially. DH said I was shaking so hard when I was trying to get the cortisone down Lisi---who refused to open her mouth! As a matter of fact we had to give her a few extra drops because in fighting to hold her mouth closed, we lost some of the liquid. 
I am not easily rattled, but yesterday I certainly was---it was very scary.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Sandi - I'm glad that she's doing better now. I guess for kids they give prednisone but obviously cortisone is in the same family as a steroid.Glad I was able to articulate what I've learned from the best of the best docs here. Most of my videos show how to prevent food allergies but also what to do if you have a reaction. Many parents give Benedryl when they see a reaction which works if it's a very minor one or an asthma inhaler if it affects breathing but that won't stop the reaction in it's tracks...only Epinephrine will and steroids and antihistamine help afterwards. Wish I didn't have the personal experience with my son to learn all this but I know my videos saved lives since the org I did it for got many letters so it's worth it.
I don't think there will be long term affects, but Lisel will be feeling very low for several days and more at risk for a reaction within the next few weeks so just be very careful about what she eats and what she does. Her immune system took a hit and so the threshold is lower to start another. But happier this was reaction to the shot where it's not like she'll be exposed to that ingredient - whatever it was that made her sick. So sorry about the cat - that's all you needed. :grouphug:


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## Zoe's Mom88 (Apr 25, 2011)

Sandi, I am so very happy to see them together. Thank goodness she has improved so much. I was thinking about you and Lisi all night. Hugs to all of you!! :hugging:


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## TLR (Nov 13, 2011)

Sandi, I am so thankful to God for hearing our prayers. I was worried but I do have a strong faith and could only leave it in his hands (which are the best hands to be in). I am also thankful for your wisdom and prompt recognition of what anaphylactic shock looks like. I will continue to pray for Lisi, you and your DH. Thanks for the update.


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## hoaloha (Jan 27, 2012)

Thank God Lisi is doing better! Sandi, I was so worried and I can't even begin to imagine how stressed I would be in that situation. I know you tried within all your power to protect Lisi and I am more than confident that you do what is best for your babies . I'm relieved that the vet said she will advocate for Lisi not to get any further vaccines! Im so sorry to hear about your cat. Please rest up and we will continue to pray that Lisi feels 100% soon :hug:


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

I'm so glad she is doing better today... Still needs snuggles and rest tho poor baby 

Will keep praying.

Maybe giving her some Thuja would help... it's used for dogs to detox vaccine "junk". Grace had a lot of improvement once she was started on it... 

hugs,
Tori


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi (Oct 16, 2008)

edelweiss said:


> Marie,
> Thank you for your deep concern for Lisi---I know your prayers were important to her coming through---believe me I do. I so appreciate everyone's concern & love---it helps when we are feeling so helpless & unable to do much---a real life-line! I am sorry we both had to lose sleep---maybe we could take turns next time! :HistericalSmiley: You are a wonderful Auntie to my two!
> I hope I did not come off harshly (although it is something I seem to do well w/out meaning to), I guess my point was that there really is more than one point of view out there and it isn't as simple as we all wish it were. Heaven knows I gave it all I had to locate the best possible vaccine, but I now believe that ANY vaccine would have produced the same results.
> You are very dear to my heart & if I was offensive I offer my sincere & heart-felt apologies. :wub:


Sandi, of course, you were not offensive in any way. And, I agree that there really is more than one point of view out there ... and, it isn't as simple as we wish it were. If anything, I would feel terrible in giving someone the wrong advice or feedback. 

I know you did and continue to do whatever you can to assure that Kitzel, Lisi, and your cat, are getting the best of care possible. You are the best Mommy in the world for your precious fluff babies. 

I might have lost some sleep worrying about Lisi ... but, I made up for it after you let us know she was doing better! LOL. And, during my sleepless hours, it gave me lots of time to say many extra prayers for your beautiful angel. :tender:

I am the one who needs to apologize for coming across as being so emotional. Well, in truth, I do feel more emotional these days. Let's blame it on the MS. :HistericalSmiley: 

I take to heart when one of our fluff babies on SM is sick. All of us feel such a strong bond and love for our little ones. And, like you, I find such comfort when Snowball's aunties have been there for him and his mommy when he has been sick. (His final lab results came back normal last week. I was so relieved and grateful that I cried over that, too.)

Dearest Sandi, I will say prayers for your cat, too. And, I will be checking in to see how darling Lisi is doing. Please give Lisi and Kitzel a big kiss and hug from their Auntie Marie. I love you, Sandi.:wub::smootch:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Zoe's Mom88 said:


> Sandi, I am so very happy to see them together. Thank goodness she has improved so much. I was thinking about you and Lisi all night. Hugs to all of you!! :hugging:


We send you big hugs for keeping the night watch for Lisi---so many people to thank---where to start! :wub:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

TLR said:


> Sandi, I am so thankful to God for hearing our prayers. I was worried but I do have a strong faith and could only leave it in his hands (which are the best hands to be in). I am also thankful for your wisdom and prompt recognition of what anaphylactic shock looks like. I will continue to pray for Lisi, you and your DH. Thanks for the update.


Thank you my friend---it means the world to me! I recognized the symptoms because i have anaphylactic reactions to dental procedures w/local anesthesia---the real problem is that it is a cross reaction to something else that sets off my heart besides all the awful swelling!:wacko1:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

hoaloha said:


> Thank God Lisi is doing better! Sandi, I was so worried and I can't even begin to imagine how stressed I would be in that situation. I know you tried within all your power to protect Lisi and I am more than confident that you do what is best for your babies . I'm relieved that the vet said she will advocate for Lisi not to get any further vaccines! Im so sorry to hear about your cat. Please rest up and we will continue to pray that Lisi feels 100% soon :hug:


Yes, it is good news that she will advocate, but I will be truly surprised if she can do anything that will help us travel. As you know traveling goes w/our work here so it is a serious issue for us.
The poor cat. . . she was a street cat & a wild thing so treatment will be very iffy. :wub:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Grace'sMom said:


> I'm so glad she is doing better today... Still needs snuggles and rest tho poor baby
> 
> Will keep praying.
> 
> ...


Thuja is new to me---will research it---probably something else unavailable to us! :smilie_tischkante: Sounds like something Lisi & I could do together! :wub:


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

I hope you can find it there... It's called Thuja Forte - it's natural. 

How long does it take to ship to Greece from the US LOL Dunno if I could even do that?


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Snowball Pie's Mommi said:


> I might have lost some sleep worrying about Lisi ... but, I made up for it after you let us know she was doing better! LOL. And, during my sleepless hours, it gave me lots of time to say many extra prayers for your beautiful angel. :tender:
> 
> I take to heart when one of our fluff babies on SM is sick. All of us feel such a strong bond and love for our little ones. And, like you, I find such comfort when Snowball's aunties have been there for him and his mommy when he has been sick. (His final lab results came back normal last week. I was so relieved and grateful that I cried over that, too.)
> 
> ...


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Sue, I had posted something for people to read, but I think a personal word from someone who is in the know can make a big difference in accepting a new/different thought. So thank you for articulating what I could not! 
My big fear now is that I have to leave early Tues. AM for 8 days to meet my new grand-baby & send them off to the US & leave Lisi w/someone. I am of such a divided heart here. I pray God will give me courage to not be fearful & leave it in His hands. I really have no choice here. I have to go--but oh, the timing would not be my choosing! :wub:


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

edelweiss said:


> Thuja is new to me---will research it---probably something else unavailable to us! :smilie_tischkante: Sounds like something Lisi & I could do together! :wub:


Sandi, if you want to add to your research then what I recommend and use on all of mine for a week prior and 3 weeks after their rabies vaccine is Animal Essentials Detox Blend. It's specifically formulated for animals and used by many holistic vets for not only detoxing and supporting the liver, but for allergies as well. I prefer liquid tinctures and powders over pills/capsules since they are more quickly and easily absorbed. Also liquids and powders are much easier to get the smaller doses needed for the tiny ones. I prefer the ingredients in the Detox Blend even over plain milk thistle for true detoxing. And I can send it to you if you need me to.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Crystal&Zoe said:


> Sandi, if you want to add to your research then what I recommend and use on all of mine for a week prior and 3 weeks after their rabies vaccine is Animal Essentials Detox Blend. It's specifically formulated for animals and used by many holistic vets for not only detoxing and supporting the liver, but for allergies as well. I prefer liquid tinctures and powders over pills/capsules since they are more quickly and easily absorbed. Also liquids and powders are much easier to get the smaller doses needed for the tiny ones. I prefer the ingredients in the Detox Blend even over plain milk thistle for true detoxing. And I can send it to you if you need me to.


Thank you Crystal! I looked at your site---is this the right one?
AE Detox Allergy Blend? How much would you give Lisi per day? She is about 4 1/2 lbs. I see it comes in 4 & 8 ozs.


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

I am so so happy to see Lisi is over the worst :aktion033::aktion033: the information on this thread is really useful too. It could use a sticky in the health section. Sounds like some serious detoxing would be a good idea. Poor baby.


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

Sandi:smcry: I have been away for awhile, oh my gosh I know you were so scared, I'm thankful God is beside you and brought you and little Lisi through all this. All we have is God and he is enough. THANK YOU LORD
I love SM we all care about each other and our babies, when one hurts we all do. I know so many prayed for Lisi and you, when things go bad I always run to sm, I am assured of prayers.
I love you Sandi


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

edelweiss said:


> Thank you Crystal! I looked at your site---is this the right one?
> AE Detox Allergy Blend? How much would you give Lisi per day? She is about 4 1/2 lbs. I see it comes in 4 & 8 ozs.


Yes that's the one. I can tell you what I do for Callie who is 4 lbs but I want to talk to my 'go to' person at AE first about what Lisi has gone through to see if perhaps they may have a different protocol. PM with her medical history, ie past vaccines and dates and previous reactions, other medical issues she has had or may have, etc... I'll call them on Tuesday and let you know.


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## joyomom (Jan 13, 2008)

Just seeing this and sending my positive thoughts and prayers for all of you.

So scary when they get sick from a vaccination, sorry you had to go through this with that sweet baby girl.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Crystal, I'll try & do it tomorrow. I am sort of exhausted tonight & will need to research it on my computer. I am also trying to get prepared for my trip to UK coming up early Tues. AM. I am having someone come here to stay w/Lisi & Kitzi & need to get food made, instructions printed, packed, etc. & have to take Ruby about 1 1/2 hrs. away for care. If I don't get it done before I leave, I will do it as soon as I return & PM you. 
Thank you so much for your willingness to help!


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## Maidto2Maltese (Oct 19, 2004)

I'm so relieved that Lisi has come thru the worst of it! I was so scared for her and can only tip the imagination as to how all this must have been for you!!!!! 
Will be continuing the prayers till she is totally over this with no lingering affects!!! 
I sooo HATE the forced vaccine rulings! I HATE that our babies lives are put at risk in order to follow a 'ruling" when in fact they likely aren't even needed after the first couple ones for protection! Thankfully , here in NYS we can get a waiver if it can be determined the shot will risk the health/life of the pet. After Missy got diabetes then cancer and at 10 years old she was due for rabies....we did the waiver. I did however request the titer just to see where she was 'at". 
"Good' protection is ratio of 1:5...... Missy was at 1:1000!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Thank you Terry!
I don't know what we are going to do about the law requirements--not even exactly sure how to research & find out. I generally find that border controls are only interested in the letter of the law---whether it is w/animals, people or goods. I have lived overseas since I was 28 yrs. of age in a few different countries & have yet to experience much "grace" when it comes to these requirements! My only hope is to find a vet whom I can bribe to lie & forge for me. :HistericalSmiley: I have a bit of a moral dilemma with that but it is tempting!


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## revakb2 (Sep 8, 2006)

Sandi, I am just now catching up with SM. I just wrote a long description of my experiences with Bogie and vaccines, but erased it accidentally. Since it really contained nothing you don't already know I won't repeat it. I just wanted to send our love and hopes for a full recovery for Lisi. Try not to worry and enjoy your grandson.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

edelweiss said:


> Thank you Terry!
> I don't know what we are going to do about the law requirements--not even exactly sure how to research & find out. I generally find that border controls are only interested in the letter of the law---whether it is w/animals, people or goods. I have lived overseas since I was 28 yrs. of age in a few different countries & have yet to experience much "grace" when it comes to these requirements! My only hope is to find a vet whom I can bribe to lie & forge for me. :HistericalSmiley: I have a bit of a moral dilemma with that but it is tempting!


Ok so this may be one of those 'grey' areas but... and I am totally understanding your moral dilemma and would be exactly where you are... IF a vet offered to do this as his/her recommendation for your situation, I would not hesitate to take it. So now we'll pray for your vet to offer this as his/her prescribed treatment for the well being of the patient. :innocent:


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

edelweiss said:


> Thank you Terry!
> I don't know what we are going to do about the law requirements--not even exactly sure how to research & find out. I generally find that border controls are only interested in the letter of the law---whether it is w/animals, people or goods. I have lived overseas since I was 28 yrs. of age in a few different countries & have yet to experience much "grace" when it comes to these requirements! My only hope is to find a vet whom I can bribe to lie & forge for me. :HistericalSmiley: I have a bit of a moral dilemma with that but it is tempting!


That's the problem with traveling, you don't have a choice. You don't know what's going to happen on the border. Some agents will close their eyes but others will strictly follow the law. And you cannot risk being stranded at the border. We left a dog with friends (years ago) because we did not know if we could get him to France without vaccinations (and there was no vet where we lived). Later we traveled with another dog from France to the US and all we had to show is a vet bill of good health. Then we went back to France and walked all around the airport with the dog and nobody asked to see anything about the dog. Go figure. But you never know. And this was some 30 years ago, times have changed. Your best bet is to find a vet who will lie and forge for you.


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## Zoe's Mom88 (Apr 25, 2011)

Sandi, I agree with Crystal. If you can get your vet to give you something say so that's great. Considering what has taken place with Lisi I would do it. :thumbsup:


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## MoonDog (Jun 6, 2011)

Oh Sandi, I haven't been on SM in days and I'm just now seeing this! Glad to know things are looking up but will offer prayers tonight. Give that little Liesl a kiss for me!


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## maltese#1fan (Feb 20, 2012)

Sandi, I was so happy to read that Liesl is doing better today. It is amazing how much love we feel for our furry friends and how much we worry when they are not feeling well. If one more person said to me "she's just a dog" when Heidi was so sick, I think I would have slugged them. That's why I love SM so much. We all feel the same way about our babies. I will keep Liesl in my prayers that she continues to improve.


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## ladodd (Jan 8, 2012)

Sandi, I'm so sorry about Lisi. I'm just getting caught up from last few days. As you know I have a strong HATE for the Rabies vaccine. I pray for the situation that you are in with your baby. If a vet happens to want to help you out, consider it divine intervention and prayers were answered. Hugs to all.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

revakb2 said:


> Sandi, I am just now catching up with SM. I just wrote a long description of my experiences with Bogie and vaccines, but erased it accidentally. Since it really contained nothing you don't already know I won't repeat it. I just wanted to send our love and hopes for a full recovery for Lisi. Try not to worry and enjoy your grandson.


Thank you dear lady---I know how frustrating it is when I write a long response & it gets eaten by the cyberspace villains---in Greece it happens often! I will try & take you wonderful advice! :wub:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

MalteseJane said:


> That's the problem with traveling, you don't have a choice. You don't know what's going to happen on the border. Some agents will close their eyes but others will strictly follow the law. And you cannot risk being stranded at the border. We left a dog with friends (years ago) because we did not know if we could get him to France without vaccinations (and there was no vet where we lived). Later we traveled with another dog from France to the US and all we had to show is a vet bill of good health. Then we went back to France and walked all around the airport with the dog and nobody asked to see anything about the dog. Go figure. But you never know. And this was some 30 years ago, times have changed. Your best bet is to find a vet who will lie and forge for you.


Spoken like someone who "has been there, done that." I, too, have had both experiences & spent hours once at a border arguing down the Chech lady border guard who wanted to keep my maltese because she said I did not have a "current" paper! I know what CAN happen & I always try to abide by the letter of the law for that reason. I am going to have to be creative here!:innocent:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

ladodd said:


> Sandi, I'm so sorry about Lisi. I'm just getting caught up from last few days. As you know I have a strong HATE for the Rabies vaccine. I pray for the situation that you are in with your baby. If a vet happens to want to help you out, consider it divine intervention and prayers were answered. Hugs to all.


Divine intervention is something that has helped me out more than once! 
One other serious problem is that Lepto is rampant here---we have even had rats on our balcony (the landlady poisons them)---so I need a solution for that too because she can't get the lepto shot now!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Update Sun. AM
Lisi is still not herself---very "punk" and only wants to be held. She is eating, etc. but not playing at all. She is a real player normally, and a very happy little tail wagger. She is always into some kind of trouble! I think this may take a while to clear. The swelling is gone, she isn't hiding anymore, and no hives. I am thankful for that much for now.
Thank you to ALL of you---if I haven't personally responded to your msg. please don't take it as a slight---I am in a time crunch at the moment as I leave early Tues (4:30 AM) for the UK and I have so much to do before that. It is hard to do much & hold Lisi! Kitzi wants to be held too---solidarity I think! He is a good brother, and although they don't individually weigh much, together they are a hand-full. I love that hand-full! :wub:


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Something interesting in US exemptions (not international) discovered in my research today at this site:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/149473/thread/1279888803/Notice-++NEW+MEXICO+Dog+Owners

"Without a provision for medical exemptions in Title 7 Chapter 4 Part 2 §7.4.2.8, New Mexicos rabies immunization code thrusts an ethical quandary on veterinarians with seriously ill patients -- they must either violate their Veterinarians Oath and administer a rabies vaccine contrary to sound medical practice and against the vaccine manufacturers labeled instructions, or recommend their clients break the law by not immunizing their unhealthy pets against rabies. Being compelled by law to vaccinate sick dogs and cats against rabies in order for their clients to comply with the code also puts New Mexicos veterinarians at risk of being held liable for any adverse reactions the animals may suffer after administering a vaccine inconsistently with the labeled directions. Owners of critically ill dogs may choose not to comply with the law rather than jeopardize the lives of their pets and then fail to license their dogs to avoid detection."

There are a # of states where there are exemptions but I have not yet located anything on an International level.


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## aprilb (Jul 9, 2010)

Sandi, I am so sorry for all you are going through with Lisi..it does appear that she is recovering, thank goodness...you are between a rock and a hard place...bless your heart. I am praying that the Lord would grant your visa and get you out of Greece...hang in there, dear sister...:grouphug::grouphug:


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

edelweiss said:


> Update Sun. AM
> Lisi is still not herself---very "punk" and only wants to be held. She is eating, etc. but not playing at all. She is a real player normally, and a very happy little tail wagger. She is always into some kind of trouble! I think this may take a while to clear. The swelling is gone, she isn't hiding anymore, and no hives. I am thankful for that much for now.
> Thank you to ALL of you---if I haven't personally responded to your msg. please don't take it as a slight---I am in a time crunch at the moment as I leave early Tues (4:30 AM) for the UK and I have so much to do before that. It is hard to do much & hold Lisi! Kitzi wants to be held too---solidarity I think! He is a good brother, and although they don't individually weigh much, together they are a hand-full. I love that hand-full! :wub:


It took Lady a full week to recover from her last rabies vaccine and she didn't have as severe a reaction as Lisi.

It sounds like she is improving to that's encouraging!


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## Grace'sMom (Feb 22, 2012)

Yes, it takes awhile for them to recover from something like this.... But she is out of the scary part, which is good.

Will keep praying for your pups and you during your travels.... hope it all goes well.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

aprilb said:


> Sandi, I am so sorry for all you are going through with Lisi..it does appear that she is recovering, thank goodness...you are between a rock and a hard place...bless your heart. I am praying that the Lord would grant your visa and get you out of Greece...hang in there, dear sister...:grouphug::grouphug:


Thanks my friend, but getting to Austria won't solve my problem! The rabies law is INTERNATIONAL---and only 20 US states have exemptions. I posted earlier about my research on this. 
I stand a better chance of finding someone I can bribe in Greece than anywhere else :HistericalSmiley: if it comes down to that! If I move to Austria I may have to come back to Greece each year to bribe a vet to do my rabies (or not to do it, if you get my drift). I hate the thought of breaking the law, and I am honestly looking for a way around it. I won't risk Lisi's life though whatever I have to do! Sometimes it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission!


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

edelweiss said:


> Thanks my friend, but getting to Austria won't solve my problem! The rabies law is INTERNATIONAL---and only 20 US states have exemptions. I posted earlier about my research on this.
> I stand a better chance of finding someone I can bribe in Greece than anywhere else :HistericalSmiley: if it comes down to that! If I move to Austria I may have to come back to Greece each year to bribe a vet to do my rabies (or not to do it, if you get my drift). I hate the thought of breaking the law, and I am honestly looking for a way around it. I won't risk Lisi's life though whatever I have to do! Sometimes it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission!


:amen: Just sayin'. So glad that the symptoms are dissipating. It just takes a while to clear from the system and recover but Lisel should be fine. I'm assuming you've got someone watching them who is very reliable. Just make sure that no matter what they don't deviate from what you give them or where you take them Wish I was there to help you out. I'd gladly hold BOTH of them while you pack. B)


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## SammieMom (Nov 13, 2010)

Hi Sandi, I am checking in to say I am sorry she is feeling poorly. Still praying for your little girl and you with all your dealing with. 
hugs


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## KAG (Jun 1, 2006)

So thankful and happy to hear your little beauty is recovering, Sandi. 
Xoxoxoxo


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Day 3 post-trama:
Lisi is still not up to "life" exactly---she is eating, pooing & slowly, slowly coming around---mostly wanting to be held & sleeping. It is sad to see my little loud-mouthed girl so "down"--especially since I am leaving early AM tomorrow for a week. :smilie_tischkante: She will be staying here at home, w/Kitzel & a Greek young lady who is the daughter of a good friend. (This family kept Kitzel at their home when I went to the UK to my daughter's wedding a couple of yrs. ago.) They also took the dog that I re-homed from a refugee couple that immigrated to Germany (a Westie)---so they know about dogs. :thumbsup:
I am going to stay positive about leaving Lisi because I know it will be best for her if I do, and for me, and for everyone, but deep in my heart I am wishing there were two of me! Just, please, keep us all in your thoughts/prayers! :smhelp:rayer::yes: I am SURE she will be ok---I don't know about myself. :HistericalSmiley:

:ThankYou::smootch:

PS: I won't have internet at the house we are using in Cambridge, but I may be able to go to the hotel or Pub nearby & have a coffee & check in??? We will have to see---so do forgive me IF I don't reply to your messages individually! For sure I will let you know if Lisi takes a turn for the worse! Otherwise assume we are ALL A O K!


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## socalyte (Nov 15, 2010)

I'll continue to keep you and your situation with Lisi in my prayers. I'll especially pray for guidance on how to handle the immunization situation and travel-- I know it's a challenge! I can't imagine Lisi anything but the spunky little girl we met in HH. I am so glad to hear she is getting better, slow as it may be.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Grace'sMom said:


> I'm so glad she is doing better today... Still needs snuggles and rest tho poor baby
> 
> Will keep praying.
> 
> ...



I just talked to my go to person at Animal Essentials. She also recommended Thuja to be given a day before, day of and 3-4 days after. Not really to detox but to help prevent or lessen the reaction. It's not the same as pre-meding w/children's Benadryl. She is also one to not recommend doing this as a preventive for the exact reasons Sue talked about. But I did want to mention this because Thuja is new to me and I wasn't sure I had a good understanding of how it worked. This is why I love working with AE. They are very knowledgeable on other products and recommend other products over theirs if they feel it's what the animal needs. She is still recommending the Detox blend for now that the reaction is over and also for when you travel outside of your living area since Lisi may be dealing with other environmental allergies that are not common in her area. 

PM'ing you Sandy with the recommended protocols. :thumbsup:


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