# Feeling overwhelmed trying to find an ethical breeder



## kayanne (Sep 15, 2018)

Sorry in advance for the long post. I've highlighted my main question.

I am happy to have found this site, and have been reading here for a long time. We lost our beloved and beautiful 10 year old Maltese Lily last summer, and my heart longs to have another one.

There is so much information on this site, so many warnings and bad stories, that I fear I'll never find a great breeder, one I can fully trust. I am so afraid of buying another Maltese who might suffer from genetic health issues as our Lily did. 

How can I be sure the breeder is being truthful with me? I spoke with one this week, and she gave me all the "right answers." She says she shows her dogs, that some are champions, that she does genetic testing, liver shunt testing, doesn't release puppies until they are 12 weeks old, that her dogs are beautifully to standard. *How would I know if papers she shows me (regarding genetic tests and blood lines) are real or counterfeit? How do I know if she is being truthful about everything?*

My main concern about this breeder is because of another thread on this site. Several years back another poster asked about this breeder. Several posters said they were familiar with her name and her dogs and that she seemed good based on what they could see on her website (ritzysmaltese.com). But one poster said she bought a Maltese from her which grew to 13 pounds. I guess that scared me because our Lily grew to 12 pounds, and as I said earlier she had genetic issues (two surgeries for luxating patella, then IVDD and Wobbler's Syndrome that caused paralysis from the neck down that surgery could not fix, so we had to put her down). I don't actually care about the size, I just want a Maltese who is healthy, and I do know that properly bred Maltese should not be that big.

Thank you for any guidance you can give.


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Welcome! I am so sorry for your loss of Lily. It is so hard.
I know how scary it can be - we worry so much. My first Maltese Molly also had IVDD. It was heartbreaking. Like you, I really tried to find healthy dogs the next time around. Of course, there are no guarantees, but with hopefully good genes and good food and limited vaccines, we wish for the best.
Where are you located? Maybe someone here will have suggestions. It would be great if you could go to a dog show near you, and meet breeders in person. Also great to be able to visit the home to meet the parents and see the conditions if possible
I used the American Maltese Association list of breeders and then searched here for any comments about particular breeders. I looked at the website that you listed. After looking at many websites during my search, there are a couple of things that stand out to me. First, it seems mostly focused on selling puppies, and second, they don’t list any dogs that they are currently showing. I don’t have any knowledge about this breeder, just my observations about the site.
I also believing in going with your gut - if something seems “off” trust yourself!
Wishing you all the best in your search!


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## kayanne (Sep 15, 2018)

Thanks for replying Kathleen.  Unfortunately there is no AMA breeder in the entire state of TN. I am willing to travel if necessary, but I was starting my search within my state.

Regarding this breeder doing shows, when I googled her name, the most recent show I found was in 2014. That's not to say there hasn't been more recent participation in shows, but that's what I found. Maybe she just isn't up for all of that at her age (she told me she's 75). She did talk about shows she's done, but I didn't ask her how long ago it was or if she still does. 

Maybe I'm still too "green" at all of this to understand why doing shows should be considered essential. Healthy parents with appropriate genetic testing seems more important from my admittedly limited perspective. That's why I am wondering what to ask for in terms of verifying genetic testing.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

I also saw what Kathleen pointed out. Why are you limiting your search to TN?


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## kayanne (Sep 15, 2018)

maggieh said:


> I also saw what Kathleen pointed out. Why are you limiting your search to TN?


I'm not limiting my search to TN, but as I said, since I live in TN that was the first place I was looking. 
There really aren't that many AMA breeders in the whole country, and certainly not many who have available puppies at any given time.


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

I never thought to ask about genetic testing. I don’t know how you would verify it. I am not sure how common it is. I never ran across a breeder that mentioned it when I was searching, but I didn’t ask about it, and that was 7 or 8 years ago.
Are you able to visit her home and meet her and her dogs? Might be a good way to ask a lot of questions in a casual way and see if you have a comfort level.
You might be right that she simply “retired “ from showing.


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## kayanne (Sep 15, 2018)

Here's an update:
I spoke with the breeder again, asked the kinds of questions that have been recommended here, and she said "You sound like you don't trust me." I said, "I don't KNOW you."
I asked about pedigrees, and she said that's all on the website. All I found were photos with captions like "AKC-5-Generation-GRAND-CHAMPION-SID-AT-RITZYS PEDIGREE."

Should there be some kind of paperwork she should show me? A website could say anything.

I ended up calling another breeder I found online. When I asked her to tell me about her breeding program she said "I don't know what you're asking." When I asked if her puppies come with a health guarantee she said "My attorney advised me not to do that." She didn't even know the weight of the parents (she guessed an approximate weight of 8 to 10 pounds).

It's like there's one world of thinking here at this website, and another whole world out there. And with no AMA breeders near me, it looks like travelling a fair distance will be required. If anyone knows of available puppies from someone they can recommend, anywhere in the US, please let me know. Thank you.


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## kayanne (Sep 15, 2018)

Well this is embarrassing. There ARE AMA breeders in my state, two in fact. I looked at the list previously, and would have sworn there weren't any listed for Tennessee. I was looking through the list again today, and there they were! I will contact them.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Welcome to SM! I am thrilled to see how careful you are being in your search! You will not regret it in the end. Of course there are no guarantees & that is why one must take time, do research, be bold & back away when something smells off. You are going to pay good money for a pup & you need to know what you want & not be intimidated by breeders who are just out to make $$. 
I am happy you have found some breeders, so come back & stay w/us. We will try to help you find answers & then spend an eternity gloating over your baby once you find him or her. Again, welcome!


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

The one who guessed at the parents weight sounds like a broker, and breed standard is 4-7 pounds so stay away from that one. As for Ritzy’s, she should have specific names of her breeding dogs and the names should have Ch. or GCh in them. Anyone can have champions in the lines; that doesn’t mean they’re breeding for show. 

Be patient - the right one will be out there! And you might look at some rescues, they sometimes have puppies and very young dogs.


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## Kathleen (Aug 4, 2011)

Yay! That is great news! Fingers crossed for you!





kayanne said:


> Well this is embarrassing. There ARE AMA breeders in my state, two in fact. I looked at the list previously, and would have sworn there weren't any listed for Tennessee. I was looking through the list again today, and there they were! I will contact them.


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## kayanne (Sep 15, 2018)

edelweiss said:


> Welcome to SM! I am thrilled to see how careful you are being in your search! You will not regret it in the end. Of course there are no guarantees & that is why one must take time, do research, be bold & back away when something smells off. You are going to pay good money for a pup & you need to know what you want & not be intimidated by breeders who are just out to make $$.
> I am happy you have found some breeders, so come back & stay w/us. We will try to help you find answers & then spend an eternity gloating over your baby once you find him or her. Again, welcome!


Thank you for the welcome! I find myself envious of all of you who have beautiful little Maltese. I am so eager to join your ranks!
When we got our first Maltese in 2008 (the one I mentioned earlier) I didn't know anything other than "don't buy from a pet store." When I found an ad in the paper from someone calling herself a "breeder," I thought I was doing it right. Ignorance is bliss, as they say. Now that I KNOW there's a lot more to it than merely avoiding pet stores, it's HARD!
Thanks again for your welcome and your advice.


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Kayanne I just sent you a pm.


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## Dixie's Mama (Mar 19, 2008)

I just looked in akc.org and found three TN breeders. I entered female pups as I had to choose male or female. Maybe you should try looking again. You could also look u dear American Maltese Association. Good luck. You are searching the right way.


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## Dixie's Mama (Mar 19, 2008)

Here is the link for the AMA. https://www.americanmaltese.org/ama-breeder-disclaimer/ama-breeder-referral-disclaimer


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## Tanner's Mom (May 27, 2005)

When we got our first Maltese in 2008 (the one I mentioned earlier) I didn't know anything other than "don't buy from a pet store." When I found an ad in the paper from someone calling herself a "breeder," I thought I was doing it right. Ignorance is bliss, as they say. Now that I KNOW there's a lot more to it than merely avoiding pet stores, it's HARD!
Thanks again for your welcome and your advice.[/QUOTE]


Don't feel bad. I got my first Malt, Tanner, the same way--newspaper. I thought if the dog was AKC registered then I was getting what I saw on TV and in books. Right! Everything I know about Maltese, I learned here on SM. It's a wonderful resource. And I've made some terrific friend over the years.


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