# Breeder doesn't offer AKC papers. Is this normal?



## appstate98 (Apr 5, 2008)

I'm in discussions with a breeder who says she doesn't offer AKC papers anymore. She claims that her litters are for pets only. She said past experiences included pet brokers who tried to buy entire litters. 

She seems like a very reputable person- she wants to interview our home to see our current Maltese's temperament is good. 


Thoughts?


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Reputable breeders give AKC papers that are marked limited so the dog may not be used
in breeding. Most have contracts that require the buyer to spay/neuter the pup as well.

She can avoid brokers by not selling a litter to one person AND making sure the pups
are spayed/neutered.

If she is breeding for pets only she is not in it for the betterment of the breed, but to make
money. Reputable breeders care about the breed and strive to improve it by 
studying and knowing the dogs in the pedigrees to help insure healthy pups who will have long lives.


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## appstate98 (Apr 5, 2008)

She said AKC papers do not guarantee the quality of a puppy--they only are suppose to verify it is a pure breed.

She requires a spay/neuter contract.


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

QUOTE (appstate98 @ Dec 10 2008, 10:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687048


> She said AKC papers do not guarantee the quality of a puppy--they only are suppose to verify it is a pure breed.
> 
> She requires a spay/neuter contract.[/B]


 SHe already said she just breeds for pets. That pretty much says
it all to me, AKC papers or not.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

QUOTE (appstate98 @ Dec 10 2008, 11:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687048


> She said AKC papers do not guarantee the quality of a puppy--they only are suppose to verify it is a pure breed.
> 
> She requires a spay/neuter contract.[/B]


AKC papers do not guarantee quality. That is very true. I would say that the lack of them does guarantee that you are dealing with someone who is not out to produce quality. The AKC has improved in recent years, requiring higher standards including DNA testing. These standards were supposed to make it more difficult for Puppy Mills to register dogs. Most of the people who are avoiding AKC are avoiding having to live up to these standards. :angry:

A lot of people have a misconception about breeders who breed for show. It isn't about snooty-ness. It isn't about the idea of saying that you have a blue-blooded dog. Breeders who breed for show are trying to breed to a "standard" which is the written set of guidelines for what makes a Maltese a Maltese. If you want the temperment of a maltese, the look of a maltese, and a breeder who cares about the structure and health of what they are breeding then you want someone who is breeding to that "standard." That is what show breeders do. This is why it is important not to look just for AKC papers which can be full of dogs that do not meet the standard, but to look for papers with lots of CH. titles (and in the parents and grandparents not back several generations). It is important to start your search with someone who is a show breeder. But do not just to stop there; go further and ask lots of questions about their breeding program. k:


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## appstate98 (Apr 5, 2008)

Thanks for the info!


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

You know, you've been given ALOT of excellent information, in the past 8-months.

Not to mention the search feature, on this site.

You seem like an intelligent man. So, given your research, make an intelligent decision.

With all the information given, I find it sad you would even consider a possible "mill" dog.


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## appstate98 (Apr 5, 2008)

3 Malt, 

I don't know what you are talking about. What's with this 8 month thing? I started asking questions two days ago... I'd rather come here and learn than make a mistake and buy the wrong dog. I've also searched before asking questions. Are you confusing me with someone else?


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## appstate98 (Apr 5, 2008)

Also- when did I mention I was considering a "Mill" Dog?


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

QUOTE (appstate98 @ Dec 11 2008, 12:43 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687092


> 3 Malt,
> 
> I don't know what you are talking about. What's with this 8 month thing? I started asking questions two days ago... I'd rather come here and learn than make a mistake and buy the wrong dog. I've also searched before asking questions. Are you confusing me with someone else?[/B]



http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...ic=33465&hl=


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

QUOTE (appstate98 @ Dec 11 2008, 12:44 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687094


> Also- when did I mention I was considering a "Mill" Dog?[/B]



When you started this thread: http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...ic=40788&hl=


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Usually if a breeder says they don't offer AKC papers it's because they can't register their dogs through AKC anymore and would most likely be a breeder to avoid. With limited registration as an option, there is no reason to say you don't offer AKC to 'protect' yourself. 

It might help if you knwo exactly what you want your new puppy to look like. Size? Muzzle length? Coat? Have you seen a maltese that you love the looks of them?


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## appstate98 (Apr 5, 2008)

QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Dec 11 2008, 01:01 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687111


> QUOTE (appstate98 @ Dec 11 2008, 12:44 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687094





> Also- when did I mention I was considering a "Mill" Dog?[/B]



When you started this thread: http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...ic=40788&hl=
[/B][/QUOTE]


And my wife and I received an email from them tonight stating that he was willing to give the dog by week 7. We said no thanks.


What else can I do for, Ma'am?


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

QUOTE (appstate98 @ Dec 11 2008, 01:27 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687120


> QUOTE (3Maltmom @ Dec 11 2008, 01:01 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687111





> QUOTE (appstate98 @ Dec 11 2008, 12:44 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687094





> Also- when did I mention I was considering a "Mill" Dog?[/B]



When you started this thread: http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...ic=40788&hl=
[/B][/QUOTE]


And my wife and I received an email from them tonight stating that he was willing to give the dog by week 7. We said no thanks.


What else can I do for, Ma'am?


[/B][/QUOTE]


Good Answer!! Now, let's focus on a reputable source. 

It's all good. As long as we look out for the dogs.


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## 08chrissy08 (Sep 19, 2008)

I'm glad to hear you are doing your research and working towards making a responsible and educated decision. It can be challenging to really know who is a good breeder and who isn't. I definitely think you made a great choice by turning down a 7 week old puppy. 

To address the byb issue, I think others already covered it pretty well. When you buy a dog from a back yard breeder, you really don't know what you may get or how healthy that dog will be. My parents got a toy poodle from a back yard breeder. The poor thing isn't even near breed standard. She has had numerous health problem including luxating patellas, kidney and liver problems, and epilepsy. Her mom we met and seemed to be healthy, but the dad was not on site. The woman bred just because she loved the dogs so much that she wanted more. 

Even if the person loves the dogs and does health checks, you still may or may not get a dog that is close to the breed standard.


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## lovesophie (Jan 28, 2008)

QUOTE (appstate98 @ Dec 10 2008, 08:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687040


> I'm in discussions with a breeder who says she doesn't offer AKC papers anymore. She claims that her litters are for pets only. She said past experiences included pet brokers who tried to buy entire litters.
> 
> She seems like a very reputable person- she wants to interview our home to see our current Maltese's temperament is good.
> 
> ...


Hello! If you don't mind me asking, what is your budget? The lowest price I've ever seen for a well-bred male is $800. Here is the website and a previous thread on this one particular breeder: http://www.euphoriamaltese.com/puppies.html http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=40007

If you're not in Texas or are unable to pick up the pup from the breeder, keep in mind that it'll cost you extra to ship. So, you'll probably be spending a little over $1000 for a pet quality male. She is a reputable breeder, and it looks as though she works closely with Tonia of Rhapsody, which is always a good thing in the Maltese world. :biggrin: 

If this is out of your budget, then you basically have three options: 1.) Go for a rescue; 2.) Go for a retiree (you'll have to cover the cost of spay/neuter, vaccinations, and teeth cleaning); or 3.) Save, save, save your $$$ for the right puppy and breeder (like Cosy's mom mentioned).

Whatever you choose to do, please do not get a fluff from a BYB, pet store, or puppy mill. If you're unsure of a particular breeder or website, please don't hesitate to ask members of SM! We'll be more than happy to help you out. 

Good luck in your search.


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

QUOTE (appstate98 @ Dec 10 2008, 11:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687040


> * she wants to interview our home to see our current Maltese's temperament is good. *
> 
> 
> Thoughts?[/B]


Glad you told her no thank you. Also, it's fine that she wants to see your home, but first, you should have wanted to see hers. 

When doing my research, I left a number of homes in tears, absolute tears at what I saw. Please be careful. They can sound so wonderful on the phone....


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## MySweetBella (Nov 14, 2008)

QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Dec 10 2008, 11:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687113


> Usually if a breeder says they don't offer AKC papers it's because they can't register their dogs through AKC anymore and would most likely be a breeder to avoid. With limited registration as an option, there is no reason to say you don't offer AKC to 'protect' yourself.
> 
> It might help if you knwo exactly what you want your new puppy to look like. Size? Muzzle length? Coat? Have you seen a maltese that you love the looks of them?[/B]



I want to get a pup that looks like your pups I love the look of Chowder or Lucy!!! LOVE THEM!!! :wub:


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

QUOTE (MySweetBella @ Dec 11 2008, 02:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687514


> QUOTE (BellarataMaltese @ Dec 10 2008, 11:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687113





> Usually if a breeder says they don't offer AKC papers it's because they can't register their dogs through AKC anymore and would most likely be a breeder to avoid. With limited registration as an option, there is no reason to say you don't offer AKC to 'protect' yourself.
> 
> It might help if you knwo exactly what you want your new puppy to look like. Size? Muzzle length? Coat? Have you seen a maltese that you love the looks of them?[/B]



I want to get a pup that looks like your pups I love the look of Chowder or Lucy!!! LOVE THEM!!! :wub:
[/B][/QUOTE]

oh thank you! I can't take credit though - Chowder is the result of Midis Maltese' hard work, I'm just reaping the benefits! I bred him but the lines are from Dian. 

And I bought Lucy as pet, so the credit goes to her breeder :thumbsup:


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## mi_ku_5 (Jun 2, 2008)

QUOTE (appstate98 @ Dec 10 2008, 10:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687048


> She said AKC papers do not guarantee the quality of a puppy--they only are suppose to verify it is a pure breed.
> 
> She requires a spay/neuter contract.[/B]


So then how do you know if her dogs are even purebred? Have you checked to see if she has been suspended from the AKC?


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## pburnette (Jun 15, 2006)

QUOTE (mi_ku_5 @ Dec 24 2008, 04:09 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=692561


> QUOTE (appstate98 @ Dec 10 2008, 10:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=687048





> She said AKC papers do not guarantee the quality of a puppy--they only are suppose to verify it is a pure breed.
> 
> She requires a spay/neuter contract.[/B]


So then how do you know if her dogs are even purebred? Have you checked to see if she has been suspended from the AKC?
[/B][/QUOTE]


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