# Sleeping with your pup



## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

My bf recently told me about an article in the paper that says that if your dog misbehaves it could be because you let your dog sleep with you. I dont care what he says or that article... I am still gonna sleep with Kodie!









Do you agree with this statement?
"I got a beagle and discovered the issue of allowing your dog to sleep with you is deeply fraught. Supposedly, bed privileges destroy the owner's standing as pack leader. Allowing a dog in the bed, I learned, is a critical dog-rearing error, like giving brandy to quiet a cranky baby and ending up with an alcoholic teenager. 

The dogma was everywhere. A recent Washington Post interview with a dog trainer stated that a dog in bed is "a sign the dog is completely in charge. Get the dog off your bed. It can make a bigger difference than anyone can imagine." How To Be Your Dog's Best Friend, the dog obedience manual by the Monks of New Skete, advises letting the dog sleep on the floor in your bedroom, but never in your bed. A dog trying to get too intimate should receive "slapped paws and a shove off"—not wholly surprising advice from celibate trainers."


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

I've heard that too, but Peanut has his own spot on my bed!! My bf's jealous of Peanut b/c peanut gets the comfy spot!







I don't notice any problems with dominance in him though


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## Carol Ann (Dec 5, 2004)

Interesting! Beastie sleeps in his bed on the floor next to me, but this is only because we have a real fear of him falling or jumping off the bed (he's done this while playing up there). Since his boldness increases with time, I cannot forsee him in the bed. I've got enough worry with him trying to jump off the sofa when he's on our laps and cuddling, and that's nowhere near as high as our bed.  

I've read threads about the joys of sleeping and cuddling with your furbabies in bed, and cannot tell you how envious I am when I read them!


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

i read in another book that theres nothing wrong sleeping with ur dog

since dogs are pack animals and wolves also sleep together in packs, dogs want to sleep with the pack too , including the owner, so not allowing them sleeping together in the same bed makes them left out from the pack and gives them stress or something..

i read it from the book - how to speak dog by Stanley coren i think


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

I think it causes a problem if you have a dominant dog and you haven't completely established yourself as an alpha. You won't see problems till around 18 months or later (social maturity). And I know this cause we have personally experienced it!!

I think if you really want to be sure that you will never have behavior issues, then until around that age, the dog probably shouldn't sleep with you.

If you do start having problems with dominance, then one of the solutions is to not sleep with them anymore, however, once problems start, they a lot harder to solve.

Soooo....the choice is yours.


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

Also, most of the reading we are doing is on dominance...so other misbehavior would be related to that. If a pup has territorial issues or resource guarding, the solutions may be different.

We have now met with 2 professional trainers/behaviorists who have lots of maltese clients (somewhat of a surprise) and apparently the issues we are having with Miko are very similar. In fact, one couple is very similar to us and their issues started with their dog sleeping on their bed.

Its hard to accept, but once miko was banished from our bed, his behavior was a LOT better. And after first few nights, he doesn't even seem to mind sleeping in his own bed.


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

After 14 years with the mean cocker spaniel from heck (who slept on the bed), when we got Jolie the Bichon we decided that she would sleep in the crate next to our bed. Everything we did was to make sure that she knew that we were in charge (as we had not been with the cocker). For 7 years she slept in her crate. Now she sleeps in the bed with us. We were so successful in our training with Jolie, who never growls or snaps, and is a completely nice dog, that we are doing the same with Sadie and Sassy. They sleep in their crates next to our bed so that they can see us. I don't anticipate that changing in the next few years. Besides, with the thick pillowtop mattresses that we have, the bed is a very long way off the floor. I'd be afraid that one of them would accidently fall off onto hardwood floors, not carpet, and get hurt.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Sleeping on the bed does not itself cause problems, but can contribute to issues in many dogs. It should be viewed as a privelege for the dog. If your dog does not have behavior issues where taking the privelege of sleeping on the bed away would help, then cuddle up!

I'm not a big fan of the Monks of New Skete...slapping your dogs paws isn't going to change behavior.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

Brink's staying in my bed right now...







He is a "brat"...but I wouldn't say he has "behavior problems".







He he...


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

Caesar sleeps with us everynight...since the 2nd night he was home wiht us!







I don't think he has behavior problems at all really, I think hes a good lil' boy!


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

We put the cabana right next to my side of the bed, on the floor. I also think that it would be dangerous for her because our bed is so high off the floor.


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## Sylphide and Shrek's Mom (Dec 4, 2004)

I completely disagree with that statement. I really don't believe a lot of the Alpha dominant behavior management theory out there.

Our furbabies sleep with us and are spoiled rotten ---yet there is no doubt about who is the "leader of the pack"--*me!*. They are obedient to my requests and defer to me as alpha in every respect.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

I actually chose my current bedding arrangement for my babies! I used to have a bed that was quite high and Rosebud, my first Maltese slept with me and she could get off the bed OK but couldn't get on..... so all night she'd jump down and then wake me up to put her back in... I don't think I had a good night's sleep for all the years I had her. 

When it was time for a new bed I gave away my tall brass bed and I got the lowest frame they made and a "low profile" box springs and a non-pillow top mattress. So, the bed is quite low. I am using one of those universal bed frames and thought I'd get a "real" bed with headboard/footboard soon thereafter. However, it's been a few years now and I still haven't had the "energy" to look for an official bed and I'm afraid I won't find one as low as the one I have now. Kallie can easily jump in and out and a footboard would get in her way as she usually gets in and out from the foot of the bed. 

One thing that makes it easy is I have a very fluffy down comforter and she sort of climbs up it and slides down it. So far, Catcher doesn't get in bed with us until the middle of the night and he stays in until morning, thank goodness, since he hasn't learned how to jump or climb yet.


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SylphidesMom_@Mar 7 2005, 04:49 PM
> *I completely disagree with that statement.  I really don't believe a lot of the Alpha dominant behavior management theory out there.
> 
> Our furbabies sleep with us and are spoiled rotten ---yet there is no doubt about who is the "leader of the pack"--me!.  They are obedient to my requests and defer to me as alpha in every respect.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40935*


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From experience, I can tell you that some of the alpha dominant behavior management works on our pretty dominant maltese. Just by being removed from the bed, he was 95% better. I think that alone sent a strong message. I personally have not done that much research on it, but have read a few books and have extensively spoken (>2-3 hrs per each) to a few behaviorists, who do seem to believe in it. 

I just wonder where you get your information from? Its possible that you haven't had problems with this issue but its very likely that others have or will have in the future. It probably does depend on how much training a dog has had. Also, how old are your dogs? Some issues don't come out till after 2 yrs of age.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

I had heard the points that Kodie mentions at the beginning of this thread and can see that not allowing a dog to sleep in bed with you does send a strong signal that you're top dog and he is not. However, I do think it depends on the particular dog, whether or not sleeping with you causes unwanted behavior. Kallie does not have an alpha bone in her body. She is just the most non-alpha dog I've ever seen. I wish she was a little more gutsy, actually, when Catcher pushes her around. 

So, anyway, having Kallie in bed with me actually helps her feel important. Catcher has alpha tendencies and at nine months, so far he is alpha to Kallie. I had planned for him to sleep in his crate next to the bed but after a couple hours he is crying to get in bed with us and I can't resist. He is so cuddly and sweet that I love having him in there. I know that with him I do have to watch to make sure he knows who's boss and if necessary I would not hesitate keeping him in his crate if he ever started trying to become alpha to me, which so far has not happened.


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## littlepeanut (Dec 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom_@Mar 7 2005, 07:04 PM
> *When it was time for a new bed I gave away my tall brass bed and  I got the lowest frame they made and a "low profile" box springs and a non-pillow top mattress. So, the bed is quite low. I am using one of those universal bed frames and thought I'd get a "real" bed with headboard/footboard soon thereafter. However, it's been a few years now and I still haven't had the "energy" to look for an official bed and I'm afraid I won't find one as low as the one I have now. Kallie can easily jump in and out and a footboard would get in her way as she usually gets in and out from the foot of the bed.
> 
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> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40939*


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Ha, I got a platform bed because of Peanut







. It doesn't use a box spring. The mattress sits on the special frame and that's it. Headboard and everything came in the set.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Sleeping on the bed is one of many things that can contribute to problems if you have a dog with behavioral issues stemming from insecurity in the pack. If your dog does not have these issues, sleeping in bed does not alone create them.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by littlepeanut+Mar 7 2005, 08:05 PM-->
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Ha, I got a platform bed because of Peanut







. It doesn't use a box spring. The mattress sits on the special frame and that's it. Headboard and everything came in the set.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40950
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Your bed sounds neat. That sounds like what I need! I really do want a headboard!


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JMM_@Mar 7 2005, 06:09 PM
> *Sleeping on the bed is one of many things that can contribute to problems if you have a dog with behavioral issues stemming from insecurity in the pack. If your dog does not have these issues, sleeping in bed does not alone create them.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40952*


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I think the problem is that many toy dogs are treated differently from bigger dogs and thus, it sends other conflicting messages about status in the pack. However, some dogs are very submissive and will not be prone to dominance at all. And sleeping in bed is certainly fine after pack order is fully established.


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## Sylphide and Shrek's Mom (Dec 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by okw+Mar 7 2005, 08:48 PM-->
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From experience, I can tell you that some of the alpha dominant behavior management works on our pretty dominant maltese. Just by being removed from the bed, he was 95% better. I think that alone sent a strong message. I personally have not done that much research on it, but have read a few books and have extensively spoken (>2-3 hrs per each) to a few behaviorists, who do seem to believe in it. 

I just wonder where you get your information from? Its possible that you haven't had problems with this issue but its very likely that others have or will have in the future. It probably does depend on how much training a dog has had. Also, how old are your dogs? Some issues don't come out till after 2 yrs of age.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40946
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Hmmm...Sylphide is very dominant...and I still don't have issues with her there. She defers to me.

As for my experience, well, hmmm. Let me see. I was previously Director of a SPCA shelter for a large metropolitan region, and Director of Public Relations and Fundraising for the same SPCA before moving on to a career in higher education teaching and administration. I received extensive training in animal control (including certification as an animal control officer), and have been involved in rescue rehabilitation for some , oh, I'd say 20 years now. In that time, I have handled, and rehabilitated dogs, both large and small, with a whole range of behavioral issues.


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SylphidesMom+Mar 7 2005, 08:10 PM-->
> 
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*[/QUOTE]

Hmmm...Sylphide is very dominant...and I still don't have issues with her there. She defers to me.

As for my experience, well, hmmm. Let me see. I was previously Director of a SPCA shelter for a large metropolitan region, and Director of Public Relations and Fundraising for the same SPCA before moving on to a career in higher education teaching and administration. I received extensive training in animal control (including certification as an animal control officer), and have been involved in rescue rehabilitation for some , oh, I'd say 20 years now. In that time, I have handled, and rehabilitated dogs, both large and small, with a whole range of behavioral issues.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=40995
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I didn't question your experience, but I asked where you obtained your information from. You certainly do not need to go through your CV for me. As far as higher education teaching and administration...well, I am not impressed. I am a medical student at one of the top medical schools but that really doesn't give me any experience with animals since that's completely different area. I still stand by what I observe in our dog. He was having issues with being on the bed, he is off the bed and he is acting a LOT better. He is pretty dominant, so some of the alpha things advertised seem to work for us.


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## ButterCloudandNoriko (Aug 26, 2004)

I pretty much agree with what everyone says. I agree that you should wait until they are trained very well (obedience and potty) and understand who is the boss. And also, sleeping on the bed should really be a privilege. If anyone has a baby who growls if you roll over them or disturb them, then they should go in their crate or off the bed. (I know some of you guys don't agree with associating their crates with punishment, but this is what i do.)


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## Sylphide and Shrek's Mom (Dec 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by okw_@Mar 7 2005, 11:34 PM
> *that really doesn't give me any experience with animals since that's completely different area.  <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=41002*


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my point in giving some background in response to your question about where my information came from is that I _do_ have experience with animals, particularly dogs.


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## 020202 (Jan 26, 2005)

We have a bedtime routine that works for us. Both dogs are tucked into bed. Cricket into a regular sheepskin dog bed and Izzy into her crate. She seems to find comfort in the dark den of her crate. Their beds are beside my side of the bed.
I have taken a few naps with Izzy curled up beside me on the bed. She still willingly goes into her crate at night without a fuss.


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MomtwoMaltmuffins_@Mar 7 2005, 11:07 PM
> *Mee, I had wondered exactly the same thing as Stanley Coren is saying about dogs being pack animals and wouldnt they want to be part of the pack?
> 
> Ours sleep with us, they have their own spots and the cats too!
> ...


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oo thats great he has a tv show, i guess its on cable? but i dont have cable tv











> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Mar 8 2005, 08:54 AM
> *waking up to find it dried on your body, all crusty. (c word just for Mee)*


omg, u are soo funny !! hahahahaha


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

DMZ dogs... lol







I can relate!


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## Maxismom (Mar 24, 2004)

even if there was something wrong with it i dont care i love my maxi sleeping with me he is adorable


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## Sisses Momma (Dec 29, 2004)

Sis sleeps in her crate, she actually does NOT want to be on the bed. Even during the day or in the evening when she wants to take a little nap, she goes in her house. She was started out in her crate at night right away. Now, we simply say "Good night Sisee, casita time".  She grabs the nearest toy and goes right into her crate.

I find nothing wrong with a dog sleeping in bed, but she seems to find comfort in knowing it's her own place. She is right next to the bed. As far as Alpha and dominance....we have found what works for us (which every dog owner can tell you it'll be different for every dog) HEAVY AND CONTINUOUS EYE CONTACT. We can just literally stare her down, especially with nipping or biting. Every owner is different, every dog is different. You may even have more than one dog in your home and you need to train them differently, JMHO.....


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

I have a question about this... Do you think kodie is soo attached to me because we sleep together?? He gets really upset when i leave him with someone else as i leave the room to go do something.... he only wants me to hold him too...


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## Harleysmom (Jan 26, 2005)

> _Originally posted by DMZ dogs_@Mar 8 2005, 08:54 AM
> *YES!  Allowing your dogs to sleep in bed with you most certainly causes problems!  For instance, here are all of my trials and tribulations:
> 
> 1.  We must have three pillows on the bed at all times.  Although there is a seperate pillow for each head, I must be "thrilled" to share my pillow at all times.  This is not usually with a cute little dog head.  It's usually the other end that I wake up to find almost pressed up against my nose.
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kodie_@Mar 8 2005, 10:39 AM
> *I have a question about this... Do you think kodie is soo attached to me because we sleep together??  He gets really upset when i leave him with someone else as i leave the room to go do something.... he only wants me to hold him too...
> 
> 
> ...


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He is not too attached, but rather too insecure about being left alone (separation anxiety). Teaching him how to be alone would be very helpful, but I don't think sleeping in the bed is damaging him.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JMM+Mar 8 2005, 10:51 AM-->
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He is not too attached, but rather too insecure about being left alone (separation anxiety). Teaching him how to be alone would be very helpful, but I don't think sleeping in the bed is damaging him.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=41109
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thanx goodness! cause i love to sleep with my baby!









how can i work on the separation anixety though...


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## nataliecmu (Aug 12, 2004)

I love that Tini sleeps with me. I didn't let her for a few months after I got her, but slowly she got her way. This morning she was cuddling with my boyfriend. She saw his arms were extended from his body and she wiggled right in between his arms and chest! 
I have so many pictures of the two of them sleeping or napping! So darn cute!


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## 020202 (Jan 26, 2005)

DMZ,














your story was hilarious. I laughed out loud. I should print that out and keep beside my bed in the event I'm remotely tempted to invite Izzy into bed with me.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)




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## Mystify79 (Apr 6, 2004)

Tuffy started out by sleeping in the guest bathroom where all his things are and it worked out great. But my husband really wanted him to sleep on the bed because he was working super long hours and bedtime was the only time he got to see Tuffy so at about 5 months old we let him start sleeping with us. I don't know whether it's because we didn't immediately let him start sleeping with us or what, but we've had no behavioral problems with him that stemmed from sleeping in the bed. We now have our little bedtime routines and it gives us a nice few minutes of quality time we can all spend together. When we get our next dog we'll probably do the same thing, have her gated up in the guest bathroom until she's trained and then invite her up to sleep in the bed when she's old enough.


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## kodie (Aug 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole_@Mar 8 2005, 11:41 AM
> *Again, I think all the "problems" that each of us has with our dogs, whether it be growling, dominance issues or trouble potty training (
> 
> 
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I agree but... i blame GREENIES for kodie's evil side!


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