# Trainer suggested collar???



## angela923 (Nov 24, 2005)

I had a talk with another trainer today and he suggested that even small dog owners should use collars. Now, I always thought that collars would hurt our little Malt's fragile throat?? That's what I told him but he said that the harness teaches the dog to pull on the leash. And that with proper training, we should all use a collar and teach the dog how to walk properly beside us so there will be no pulling, therefore not hurting the dog. Apparently, a harness can not give us the same effect as a collar? 
The trainer also said that he is a breeder of small breeds, even smaller than the malt, and he always uses a collar. What do you guys think?


----------



## Teddyandme (Feb 6, 2005)

Angela,

To be kind....I think he is totally and completely unqualified to train small animals. How dare he disregard what science and Vets know....which is that Maltese and other small dogs may have very delicate trecea and neck issues which could be exasperated by the use of collars. 

This topic always gets me because I know there are thousands of poor little ones...some even bigger that have collars who really should not. When I first got Teddy I put him in a harness...the typical kind that you find in Petsmart or the like....well, I will never forget the first couple of days with my little guy. He made it clear to me that even taking off the harness was painful to his neck. I took notice and I will always remember the look we shared as I took his harness off on days after....he would look me straight in the eye and I would gently take off this darn thing....he knew that I was aware this bothered him and he also knew that I was doing everything in my power not to hurt him....I truly believe that he felt this and his eyes thanked me so very much (I still get teary thinking of it)

In the meantime I was on the hunt for a better type of harness so that I did not have to cause any distress after we got back from our joyful daily walk. I found one and for almost his whole life now have used a harness that goes on and then can be tightened so that we do not have to pull it over his thoat. I actually put a picture on the other day of the harness. Teddy knows that I care deeply if he is hurting and all animals should have the same care....so for a trainer to say such a thing to me is deeply offensive. I would run from the man and never look back.

Your instincts seem to be on target....listen to them and protect your little one. 

FYI - I just took a training class for Teddy to become a therapy dog (he passed with flying colors) and the trainer and the people testing the dogs all agreed that harness's were the best for these small angels. I actually purchased a very good harness from the trainer and when it came in it was the normal harness....I put it on once....and will never again, because taking it off hurt Teddy....and I was as gentle as can be.

Follow that voice you hear that will protect your little guy.

S


----------



## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

I would just like to say that my Irish Setter would pull like you wouldn't believe when I walked her (using a collar)... I got scared because she would literally CHOKE herself.







I took her to the vet and he suggested I use a harness because she could cause herself harm. Sooo...in saying that, I'm pretty sure that trainer has no idea what he is talking about....








I wouldn't risk my Malt's health by using a collar, seeing how the breed is known for having trachea issues. JMHO.


----------



## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

I think you should also follow your instincts as a collar is very bad for our little furkids, espcially if they do pull a lot. I have found that having Scooby's favorite treat in my pocket when walking keeps him close by me, he can smell them. 
I know there is another option for larger dogs called a halter which fits over the back of the head and around the snout, this is very good for training a dog to walk with you and not pull forward and it doesn't harm the dog in any way. I don't know if they make them small enough for our little darlings though


----------



## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

If I'm using something around the neck, its a show lead. Otherwise a harness or head halter is my preference.


----------



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

I heartily agree with everyone.... please don't use a collar.... !


----------



## angela923 (Nov 24, 2005)

I was worried about using a collar too. I use a harness myself because like all of you, I was afraid to hurt Pudding's neck. But if we can teach them to walk nicely like the trainer said, would it make a difference what kind of restraint we use since they are not pulling on it?


----------



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> I was worried about using a collar too. I use a harness myself because like all of you, I was afraid to hurt Pudding's neck. But if we can teach them to walk nicely like the trainer said, would it make a difference what kind of restraint we use since they are not pulling on it?[/B]


I guess if there is no pulling you would not be hurting her but what if for some reason something startled her and she ended up running ahead... For me it just ins't worth the possiblity .... My first Malt, Rosebud, had a mild trachea collapse and I totally blame myself for using a collar for several years when I didn't know any better.


----------



## Carole (Nov 1, 2005)

I would never use a collar on my girls. It is just a really bad idea on this breed of dog.


----------



## angela923 (Nov 24, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=154000
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is a good point! And it's always better to be safe than sorry, I guess! I don't see why you can not train a dog to walk nicely in a harness?


----------



## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=154001
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have always used a harness on Massimo. He does very well, no pulling like he did when I first used it. I live in the country, and Massimo listens rather well, so when I go for walks on my parents land, I never even have to use a leash or a harness, he just follows along. 

I hadn't heard of the head halter until a few years ago, Jasper is 9 and I never saw them when she was a pup. She does very well now tho, no pulling. My 4 year old son walks her with no problem.


----------



## Teddyandme (Feb 6, 2005)

I had to add after seeing your other posts Angela, that this trainer must not be that good if he has to use force on the animal to get them to listen. 

A very good technique that I have heard of to get them to walk with you is to turn slightly.....so that the fluffbutt thinks you are changing direction...when they come back to you then proceed again in the straight line...it does not take a long time for them to catch on that you want them to be by your side and it does not involve pulling or choking the fluffbutt in any way.

Good luck...and I am glad that you will not use a collar either.


----------



## momtoboo (Jan 30, 2006)

When I took Boo to puppy training classes,the trainer wanted me to use a collar instead of a harness.But I refused.I was not going to risk hurting my furbabys neck.He did very well in the class wearing his harness.


----------



## Carla (Aug 30, 2005)

Shotzi wears a collar 24/7 but only for her tags. I use a step-in halter that has nothing going around her neck for walking. Shotzi is very good about walking beside me except when she sees a cat. She always wants to chase them.









Carla & Shotzi

P.S. I would get a different trainer.


----------



## TheButtercup (Mar 3, 2005)

my main reason for a harness actually doesnt have anything to do with the trachea, but rather a quick "pick up". if, heaven forbid, butter is in any danger on our walks, i'm much more able to reach down and grab her up by her harness than with a collar. yeah, if you're reaching down, what's the difference between picking them up properly and snatching 'em up by the harness.... but sometimes seconds count, you know? 

just my paranoid two cents....

ann marie and the "i'm more scaredy of the sleeping homeless man in our alley than anything!" buttercup


----------



## Littlemans Mom (Apr 6, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=154000
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

I thought the exact same thing as you







Sure they can be trained to walk nice and all, but if something gets their attention.....or if another dog comes toward etc. I would not use a collar and take that chance. Indy is too precious to us to take that chance







I listen to my Vet, he knows how to train dogs well and he is so good with them too. I have heard some very strange things from some trainers, just be careful and follow your instincts


----------



## Sylphide and Shrek's Mom (Dec 4, 2004)

I had posted the following to your thread on training:

A few pointers on finding a good trainer for your baby:
1. One thing to look out for is to make sure that your trainer understands the psychology and training methods for small breeds. Ask if s/he has small breed experience, and ask how s/he adapts the training to the needs of a small breed dog. Many trainers own and handle large dogs, and have no idea how to handle a small breed.
2. Don't let him or her use tactics for large dogs on your little one.
3. Be wary of any trainer that suggests a choke chain - that could kill a Malt baby.
4. Insist on using a harness even if they recommend collars (a good trainer will know that the harness is better for the Malt because of their fragile tracheas).

It sounds like this trainer doesn't meet this criteria. Don't let his ignorance push you into making decisions that will ultimately hurt your baby. If he insists on the collar now, what other training methods will he use that are potentially dangerous to your tiny toy breed? I would look for another trainer. Why trust your baby to someone who is unqualified to work with him?


----------



## angela923 (Nov 24, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=154000
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was very concerned about the collasping trachea that you mentioned afterwards because Pudding will cough after he drinks or when he's excited sometimes, so I looked up some info. But apparently, all dogs can develop this disease and they don't even know what causes it. I think there are evidence to suggest it might be genetic. So don't blame yourself too hard for using the collar! There might be other issues involved.







But to be safe, I would use a harness anyway...


----------



## Koa (Oct 11, 2005)

I am confused... Koa wears a harness and honestly it seems to choke him as much as a collar does when he is wearing it. He pulls against it so hard when we are walking I don't see how it wouldn't be damaging his neck! He even makes little noises that sound like he's having trouble breathing. But he doesn't stop pulling so that makes me think it can't be so bad. I am trying to teach him to heel so he won't hurt himself but he is slow to learn. I am afraid he is going to damage his throat but aside from not taking him on walks I don't know what to do. :-(


----------



## Sylphide and Shrek's Mom (Dec 4, 2004)

> I am confused... Koa wears a harness and honestly it seems to choke him as much as a collar does when he is wearing it. He pulls against it so hard when we are walking I don't see how it wouldn't be damaging his neck! He even makes little noises that sound like he's having trouble breathing. But he doesn't stop pulling so that makes me think it can't be so bad. I am trying to teach him to heel so he won't hurt himself but he is slow to learn. I am afraid he is going to damage his throat but aside from not taking him on walks I don't know what to do. :-([/B]


Koa, what type of harness are you using? Some of them have are designed with a collar attached that pulls on the neck and throat. I like the step in harnesses that don't have anything on the neck, but have a chestplate instead. That way, they get support in the chest area, but no pressure against the neck and throat.


----------



## Koa (Oct 11, 2005)

This is kind of what Koa's harness looks like. One loop goes around his neck and then I clip a second loop around his body. It really seems to pull on his neck when we are walking together.

This is called a 'Comfort Wrap Step In Harness' according to petsmart.com.










Can you please send me pictures of what your harnesses look like? Thank you.


----------



## Sylphide and Shrek's Mom (Dec 4, 2004)

Hi Koa, I'm surprised the comfort wrap bothers him - it's what we used on Sylphide when she was a puppy, but she chews her way through nylon. We graduated to leather after she chewed her way through 4 or 5 in the few minutes she'd be waiting for us to put our shoes and coats on.

The harnesses I end up buying look like the one on the following website, although this isn't where I have been buying them. This style seems quite comfortable for both Sylphide and Shrek, and Sylphide has a tendency to pull. Actually, now that I think about it, she started coughing with the comfort wrap style, which is why I did some research until I found a kind that is comfortable, safe, can't be chewed through, and looks good. Sylphide's is baby pink, and Shrek sports a red one. 

http://www.ldsleather.com/


----------



## Koa (Oct 11, 2005)

> Hi Koa, I'm surprised the comfort wrap bothers him - it's what we used on Sylphide when she was a puppy, but she chews her way through nylon. We graduated to leather after she chewed her way through 4 or 5 in the few minutes she'd be waiting for us to put our shoes and coats on.
> 
> The harnesses I end up buying look like the one on the following website, although this isn't where I have been buying them. This style seems quite comfortable for both Sylphide and Shrek, and Sylphide has a tendency to pull. Actually, now that I think about it, she started coughing with the comfort wrap style, which is why I did some research until I found a kind that is comfortable, safe, can't be chewed through, and looks good. Sylphide's is baby pink, and Shrek sports a red one.
> 
> http://www.ldsleather.com/[/B]


Thanks for the help.  I got Koa a new collar with a chest plate and it's working great. He no longer seems to struggle breathing when we go for a walk. I just hope the old one did not hurt his neck.


----------



## Michelle&Roxy (Mar 10, 2006)

Honestly, even with my parents' dogs, including their pointer/lab, I dont and they dont, use collars. Strictly harnesses. But especially with their chihuahuas and my maltese, Roxy. When I first got Roxy and TRIED walking her, with her harness, she did wiggle around and was a bit hard to deal with walking, especially the first few times as she was a bit scared of everything. But, I found a simple way to lead HER with the harness and it doesnt choke her either, being maltese are small yet determined little dogs...
Right now I'm using also a regular leash, which I'm beginning to find I like better than the retractable ones, especially being it's not like I want her going way ahead of me.
So, when I want more control due to say, her going near something not safe especially, I gather the leash up more, but I dont tug sideways, I hold it straight up and tug slightly. It doesnt hurt her and it tells her to go another direction. I especially do that when I'm about to take her for a walk and we're leaving the apartment, I gather more of the leash into my hand, giving her less distance, and hold it vertical from her harness to my hand to direct her, considering animals see the pack leader as the one who goes first as they follow, I have her follow me out the door that way. Also, I found that when she was getting used to walking outside with the different noises, she felt more confident and less afraid when I had her more in my direction with that vertical holding method, just closer to me, and me walking her, not her walking me, me being calm and taking control of the situation made her feel more easy, now she's curious about everything when I walk her and not afraid at all, except with the lawn mower noise... :s Cant win'em all, I guess, haha.


----------



## MaxMommy (Nov 1, 2005)

> Shotzi wears a collar 24/7 but only for her tags. I use a step-in halter that has nothing going around her neck for walking. Shotzi is very good about walking beside me except when she sees a cat. She always wants to chase them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had a collar on Max for tag reasons only. He is not with me any more because of it. When you are not at home with them, please take them off.







Max's collar + tags now hang in the doorway in his memory, and I will never put one on Angie.


----------



## skycheyan (Mar 13, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=154088
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is so sad I am so sorry to hear about Max. If all of you do not use collars then what do you keep their tags on? After reading all of this I will be getting a harness for my Nicholas.


----------



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Hi, I have collars with their tags attached that I put on them when we go out but I don't attach a leash to it and I never leave collars on in the house. Most of us use a harness when walking our Malts to keep pressure off their delicate throats.


----------

