# Please read: recent behaviour / chat suspended



## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

I am posting this in anything else because it will get viewed the most.

I have had enough







I am sorry for my tone, I tried with a post recently to get the message across that we need to be nice, treat others as we would want to be treated or to be the bigger person and walk away from something and to contact me about it, i no longer have the patience, for those who wish to act like children, i will treat them like children, thank you to those of you who have resisted being involved

BUT, as of now, at least through the weekend, live CHAT has been suspended, possible suspensions are there

Should everyone be punished for the acts of a few? NO, but it may take this action for everyone to understand that this childish behaviour among some of you is embarrassing, ridiculous and will no longer be tolerated, i will not take time to make sense of this anymore, if you want to be involved in childish behaviour, i will treat it accordingly, this is NOT a business to me, i do NOT make money at this, I will NOT let it consume my life, I got home at 5:15, for the last 3 hours I have had to try and make sense of what happened in chat last night, that is CRAZY, other sites will laugh at this, I dont blame them, people are upset, members have left, I dont blame them, all because of how some of us act, in PM's, in Chat, in emails, in posts, as I said, very embarrassing to me

If you cannot, will not or do not want to get along with others, please find another forum or website, or email list, better suited to your intent, SM does not need it, members that act their age do not appreciate it and us as ADULTS should not have to deal with it

As my wife said, "it is a Maltese website for goodness sake!" and for some reason a lot of us cannot concentrate on that, we are here to learn, to discuss and enjoy our fluffbutts, and again, I THANK each of you who do just that, THANK you from the bottom of my heart

PS: Kim said I spell behaviour wrong, I think it is correct in England or some other part of the world











> Definitions of behaviour on the Web:
> 
> behavior: the action or reaction of something (as a machine or substance) under specified circumstances; "the behavior of small particles can be studied in experiments"
> demeanor: (behavioral attributes) the way a person behaves toward other people
> ...


Thank you for reading


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## triste (Aug 30, 2004)

Thank you Joe, I'm sorry that you had to deal with this.







I don't know what went on but I wish there could be peace in this world...


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## Krystal (Feb 3, 2007)

I am sorry that you are having to deal with this sort of childish behaviour.


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

Sorry you had to go through this yet again Joe


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## revakb2 (Sep 8, 2006)

Even though I know nothing about what went on last night, it is a shame that some of us have forgotten the golden rule. Thank you Joe for this wonderful web site.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

I am so sorry you have had to deal with this unpleasantness yet again.


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## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

Sorry, Joe, that you have to deal with such childish behavior - all it takes are one or two "bad apples" as they say.

You the man - you're the best!


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

Joe, I only have a sec (super long day) but I'm so sorry that this has upset you so--I have NO idea what happened, but I agree that it should not consume your life--this is a volunteer effort for you--and I know for me I LOVE to come here because it takes my mind off of things here and there in the day and I can retreat and discuss and learn about this awesome pup that has been in my life for 4 1/2 months now. I've got a lot to learn and I love to give feedback when I can and I love the unity and support that is here. Anyway, we truly appreciate your efforts. I hope everything is resolved soon.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

Joe ~

I had written, and erased an entire page. However, it would have started more crap. 

So, I just want to say "Thank You". And give you a few chili dances (you know they are my favorite)































PS: LBB is still waiting for his "No Eyed" smilie


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## Howren06 (Nov 29, 2005)

Sorry you have to deal with this again. There is no reason you should have to deal with such childish behavior. Thank you for all your work with this sight. I don't what I would do if there was no SM to come to every day.


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## CathyB (Mar 10, 2007)

Thank you for all that you do Joe







* The site, and people are awesome.


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> PS: LBB is still waiting for his "No Eyed" smilie
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and one he deserves

how is this...


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## triste (Aug 30, 2004)

ROFLMAO


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> how is this...
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and after he sticks his tounge out at us he smiles...


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

Thanks so much for taking care of this issue once again. Several of us have become very good friends through chat. Our group is now chatting elsewhere, as none of us want to cause problems, nor be bothered by those who do. 

I hope the remainder of your weekend is better than the start.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=366884
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He LOVES it!!! He said "It's about time you conformed with the handicap rules"


















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You are CRACKING me up


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> Thanks so much for taking care of this issue once again. Several of us have become very good friends through chat. Our group is now chatting elsewhere, as none of us want to cause problems, nor be bothered by those who do.[/B]


honestly, there shouldnt be a "group" , there shouldnt be problems, and many are to blame, live chat at SM should be enjoyed by adults with the subject of Maltese, if you must go off site as a group then the problem is much larger than SM, its personal, its sad to me that it has come to groups, very sad


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

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I think you misunderstood what I was saying. A group of friends with common interests unrelated to Maltese or what is going on within the forum here choose to communicate elsewhere. Society is full of groups with similar interests.


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## Jacki (Jul 13, 2006)

First -- Joe, I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.







It's really too bad that it has come to this. 



> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=366902
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Well ... I just wanted to add my 2 cents on this ... I have made some wonderful friends through chat. It is because we all went there regularly. This wasn't a planned liaison (sp?) or something, just people meeting up to talk, and becoming friends. I stumbled in one night and really didn't know anyone at the time! There is such a different dynamic between posting forum messages and live chatting. Some of these folks have become very good friends; some things that are going on in my life right now ... ugh, I don't know what I would do without these friends to talk with, and pray with. It's not about "going off" somewhere together, it's about gathering with friends, and if chat is suspended here because of the bad behavior, then friends will chat somewhere else, I don't think that is wrong.







Actually in my mind it almost seems better because then folks here who don't regularly chat or become close friends won't feel like there is some kind of "clique" ... JMO ... I just don't see what Faye said as being an indicator of some kind of large problem. 

Anyway, I'm really sorry it has come to this with chat. I know I paid for a membership specifically to be able to access chat on weeknights and catch up with my Maltese friends. Oh well. Best wishes to all.


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## casa verde maltese (Apr 7, 2007)

Joe, I'm so sorry for whatever happened. This site is so neat, as a newbie I have learned so much that I hate to see this happen. 

Thank you so much for the site.

J


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## Andrea&Luci (Jul 30, 2006)

WELL SAID Joe!!!!!!!!!! Seriously, SM is so much fun and the only place in my life (for me at least) that is completely drama free!!!!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Joe, I'm so sorry you've had to deal with something like this . . . 

[attachment=21810:attachment]


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> I think you misunderstood what I was saying. A group of friends with common interests unrelated to Maltese or what is going on within the forum here choose to communicate elsewhere. Society is full of groups with similar interests.[/B]


no, i dont feel i misunderstood, the subject here is SM chat and the ability of members to use SM chat, if anyone wishes to communicate outside SM for whatever reason, I understand that, I welcome that, but the guise of similar interests, only to come together as a force, is nothing but a clique, and that is what is happening, what happens outside SM is not my business, what happens inside SM is, and all of this is coming togethter here through chat, pm's, threads and emails and as hard as i have worked to prevent something so hostile, to encourage support, the true meaning of friendship is lost among many


i see this from many sides, and its ugly


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## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

Judgments here would be better kept to Maltese and positive issues, "yes I like that outfit, your doggie looks GREAT". NOT personalities, not livelihoods, NOT other people's lives, unless what they do has a direct negative impact on another’s life, in real life.



If someone does something you don’t like, ignore them. You are ONLINE for goodness sake, it’s easy to click on “ignore”. Very little chance you will change anyone with the rudeness, such as I have seen displayed as of late here. And truly narrow-minded comments… oh… such as “you aren’t a real woman until you have a baby”, well that is just INSANE! I would love to know what an adult female “really” is before having a baby and what are adult females if they never have a baby? What craziness is this? Well, it’s run amok here on SM. Sad for Joe and sad for so many others, that are “real” women, Mothers or not.



It really does appear to me that some people on SM sit and wait for "prey" and then pounce. Never ever thinking of the harm they may be doing or God forbid, relishing the harm they do.



NO, “this is not church” however, hate does allow evil to creep into your heart. How can you come here and LOVE Maltese and have evil in your heart? Negativity in a group setting, well that is dangerous, even to that very group.



And yes, in all the above I AM being judgmental, my judgment is to Live and Let Live. SO WHAT, someone does not live their life like you…or to suit you, you are not The Judge.



Now back to adoring Maltese, which is why I love SM.

Melanie


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## garrettsmom (May 15, 2006)

Joe, sorry you had to endure what sounds like very nasty behavior. From what you imply, it makes me very glad I never got involved in "chat". I love this forum and have found it extremely helpful while researching and readying for my Maltese.


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## sophie (Jul 9, 2006)

I'm so sorry to see this happen. I've only been to chat once and thoroughly enjoyed it. Everyone was very pleasant, nice, and just a little bit silly. I was looking forward to finding time to chat again. 

The reason I do shy away from chat is that I've experienced something similar before on another list I belong to for years - non-pet related. We were a very small group in the beginning, but as we grew and grew trouble would pop up and people were really hurt by the viciousness so we ended up having scheduled chats only and the chat being moderated. It was a tremendous thing the volunteers did to relieve the list owner of all the drama. It broke my heart to see the owner of that list be put through h*ll in a handbasket to try to hold the group together. She eventually had to turn the day-to-day management over to someone else just to keep her sanity. I would hate to see Joe go through that after all of his hard work to make a wonderful place for us to visit. Oh, and, we issued boots with very pointy toes for the moderators to use to boot out those who weren't being nice.


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## bek74 (Jun 26, 2006)

I am shocked







, I have made some wonderful friends in chat, friends who have supported me through some really tough times. I hardly ever post on SM anymore because of RUDE, IGNORANT people, and I pop into chat as often as I can to talk with people that ARE my friends, that care and don't judge.

I have no Idea what happened last night, but I find it hard to believe it got so bad. I'm not saying it didn't, I am just shocked







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## Tallulah's Mom (Jan 8, 2007)

I haven't had time to post for awhile. (unfortunately.







) I've been very busy trying to sell my house with no luck yet.

I'm saddened to see what's going on here. Since I've been here, I've seen mostly positivity and encouragement from other members. I don't go on to live chat as I really haven't a clue how to get on it in the first place. lol Secondly, it probably requires more time than I can give at this point. 

I do hope everything gets sorted out without too many hard feelings. This is a great place to be. (When I lifted a pot lid up and accidentally burnt Tallulah, I posted here and hoped for the best. I got nothing but compassion from EVERY member who posted.







)

There are a lot of great members here. I don't know exactly what happened, but I hope it can be explained as a misunderstanding or poor choice of words rather than outright cruelty towards others.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=366914
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It is definately Ugly!!! And a "stop" NEEDS be SET. 

Once again, Joe, you rock


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## Boobookit (Dec 3, 2005)

*OK, so once again I am clueless, but I think this time it is a good thing that I am! Sorry Joe for you having to go thru this once again but I just had to say that I love the eyeless smilies!!*

*As I have said before and I will say again, I LOVE SM and would be lost without it. I have learned so many good things on here and the friends that I have made are wonderful.*

*You rock, Joe, keep up the good work!*

*Marie & the Boys!*


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

Gee, some of you are making it out to be some dark society. We do talk about silly things there, but we all offer a lot of support for each other. We pray together, and we share personal joy and sorrows that we feel comfortable talking among friends. We talk about such things as Kim's mom, the loss of children, a member's surgery, another member's health issues, and the joys of our children and grandchildren. Some of these are personal matters, to be shared among close friends. On a personal note, I've been in the process of making some very big business decisions related to my practice of psychology, and the members have been very helpful and supportive. Another member has had family issues, and we offered prayers and support. Oh, we can get on some other topics, such as who wants to have a hit put on their mate that day, or how to do a correct AI for a dog, but as a whole, we join together as friends to share and support each other. And, as those of us who choose to do so move to a different aveue for chat, this is what we will be dealing with there. No hidden agenda, just sharing and support among friends. I don't think any of us plan to leave SM chat, if it returns; however, we are enjoying an alternative where things that are personal (or not related to the SM group) can be shared. For instance, since menopause is one of the topics, I don't think some members want their symptoms aired in an open chat room.


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

Hi Joe,

I think you are doing the best you can given the circumstances. I am part of many forums and mailing lists (cars, computers, software, jewlery, study groups) but there is different about dog forums. I have found that these forums causes peoples' blood to boil a lot more. Maybe it is because the topic is so near and dear to our hearts, maybe it is because dogs are some people's sole source of income, maybe people want more drama in their lives ... who knows.

I started on the Maltese forums and mailing list 8 years ago. I have seen so many fights, so many broken friendships ... even law suits. I myself have been involved in several - some I regret but many I don't. For every incident, there are several sides to the story but usually the one in the clique prevails .. or maybe the person who has something that others want and they take their side. I have shed many tears because of these forums and frankly .. those issues are so stupid that I shouldn't even be bothered with. My boyfriend and friends laugh over how catty some of these fights are. They are baffled by how people can even fight about certain topics. However, I still stand by what an eye opener these groups have been - it really gives you perspective on the people out there .. outside your normal circle of friends in the real world.

Anyways, I am glad I have no idea what happened in the chat room. I just stay off certain threads and stay away from certain people now. I just enjoy the darling photos and leave the fighting to others. I guess there is a downside because I don't share anything anymore. I would like to believe that I could add value but the pain isn't worth it. I read my old posts sometimes .. and I have noticed a great decline in the numer of posts I add and the actual value in my posts these days. I am sure if others go back and read their posts .. they may notice a change in themselves too.

Why can't people just drop all the crap and enjoy it for what it is for? We all should have things in our life that doesn't involve backstabbing people or coming online to play a different persona beyond their "true" self.

I better shut up now before I piss more people off! I have made some amazing friends through dog lists and SM. It is only a handful but these are people that I truly respect and admire. These are usually people who are geniuely kind hearted (like Jamie and Susan) and others are people who I share common interest with outside of just Maltese. We can't avoid sub-groups forming because we bond with people who we get along with and we shy away from those we find flaws in. I am the type of person who always stands up for my friends no matter what.


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## sophie (Jul 9, 2006)

> Gee, some of you are making it out to be some dark society. We do talk about silly things there, but we all offer a lot of support for each other. We pray together, and we share personal joy and sorrows that we feel comfortable talking among friends. We talk about such things as Kim's mom, the loss of children, a member's surgery, another member's health issues, and the joys of our children and grandchildren. Some of these are personal matters, to be shared among close friends. On a personal note, I've been in the process of making some very big business decisions related to my practice of psychology, and the members have been very helpful and supportive. Another member has had family issues, and we offered prayers and support. Oh, we can get on some other topics, such as who wants to have a hit put on their mate that day, or how to do a correct AI for a dog, but as a whole, we join together as friends to share and support each other. And, as those of us who choose to do so move to a different aveue for chat, this is what we will be dealing with there. No hidden agenda, just sharing and support among friends. I don't think any of us plan to leave SM chat, if it returns; however, we are enjoying an alternative where things that are personal (or not related to the SM group) can be shared. For instance, since menopause is one of the topics, I don't think some members want their symptoms aired in an open chat room.
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I hope I didn't offend you with my post. When I said just a little bit silly I meant that in a good way. The one time I was in chat was a wonderful experience. I had a great time and hoped to chat again. I also should have said I have no idea what went on the other evening in chat, just what I've read here. I didn't mean to compare this chat room to what I experienced in the other group I belong to, just wanted to share a little bit of what went on there. I found there that the more people entered into chat the more subjects came up and the harder it was to keep up with all the different conversations and it was routine and accepted that people would break off into other rooms or even into private chat sometimes which was totally okay with everyone. In fact, as it was a non-pet group those who wished to talk about their pets started a separate animal chat and even a sub-board to post about their pets as not everyone was interested in pet chat. yes, the pets actually chatted with each other. We even had virtual parties where people "brought" different foods and drinks to "share." Needless to say, sometimes new members actually thought we were a bit looney. Especially when we planned our "virtual vacations in our fantasy van." Anyway, I hope you didn't take my post as more or less than it was meant to be.


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## Deanna (Jan 14, 2005)

Thanks Joe! Its so hard not to let a few people cloud your whole view of a place, but I think those of us who don't get involved and don't know what happened far out number those who were mixed up in the ugliness- I hope this helps to remind you that you offer a great forum with lots of wonderful people.

Have a good weekend.

Oh- and in Canada we use the "ou": behaviour, colour, neighbourhood.

Since getting here I have had to learn to spell (and talk) all over again, however I REFUSE to ever say zed for the letter Z.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

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No, you did not offend me at all. I think the SM chat is a wonderful experience for most members. I just wanted to let those who do not enter chat to know what the big secret is about. So, I posted what usually goes on there.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

I haven't posted on this forum for almost 2 months and I am only posting now cause this topic is very important . This will be my last post on this foum. To sit here and say nothing bad goes on in chat is a bunch of CRAP, stuff does go in there I have seen it. I was an active member here for a LONG time and I have been in chat more times than I can remember.I have seen people talked about rumors being started with absolutely no proof to back it up! I have been there I have seen it I know what went on. Im not saying there aren't good decent people there but there are a few who throw around words and don't realize that with every word a reputation is being hurt or a persons feelings are being hurt. People think just cause someone is popular that they know what they are talking about well they don't, some people who are in a position to teach others don't do that instead they make accusations and stupid off the wall comments! I have made comments also but I have never made a statement about someones reputation EVER !! I used to love it here







when I found SM I was so happy, but then things started happening and people who you thought were your friends were like strangers the next minute. I agree it's a dog forum but that doesn't change the fact that your going to make friends and care about some , it happens..Women can be very vicious I know I am one, but one thing I can say is that at least I have learned a thing or two and I take that with me and I don't repeat my past mistakes.. I will always love SM, but to many things have happened here and I just wasn't happy anymore. Joe is a wonderful man he took the time to seek me out and ask what my problem was. Joe I am sorry I never told you exactly what it was I just didn't wanna throw around names. I just figured it was better to leave quietly and thats what I did. I must say that most here are wonderful caring people who will give you the clothes off their back, but there are the selected few that with their words can make you feel like crap.. I wish everyone the best and I hope everything will be back to normal soon, Joe really doesn't deserve this, really. I am sorry if ever any of my posts hurt anyone, I joke around alot and I really never meant any harm to anyone ever. So I just hope I can walk away with a clear mind, everyone says things sometimes they wish they could take back I know I have, it doesn't mean they are a bad person it just means they made a mistake and need some understanding so I hope you all will do that for each and every member..
All The Best,
Andrea and Nemo


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## bek74 (Jun 26, 2006)

> I haven't posted on this forum for almost 2 months and I am only posting now cause this topic is very important . This will be my last post on this foum. To sit here and say nothing bad goes on in chat is a bunch of CRAP, stuff does go in there I have seen it. I was an active member here for a LONG time and I have been in chat more times than I can remember.I have seen people talked about rumors being started with absolutely no proof to back it up! I have been there I have seen it I know what went on. Im not saying there aren't good decent people there but there are a few who throw around words and don't realize that with every word a reputation is being hurt or a persons feelings are being hurt. People think just cause someone is popular that they know what they are talking about well they don't, some people who are in a position to teach others don't do that instead they make accusations and stupid off the wall comments! I have made comments also but I have never made a statement about someones reputation EVER !! I used to love it here
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Luv to you girlfriend


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## Littlemans Mom (Apr 6, 2005)

Joe, I am so sorry you have to deal with this type of issue







I am also clueless again, as I have never been in chat







It makes me very sad when things like this happen on SM , I really enjoy coming here and I hope things can be mended with all involved. I don't want anyone else to leave, I may be hoping for too much but I just want everyone to get along


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## PuttiePie (Nov 22, 2006)

Joe, I am sorry for all that has happened. I know that there are certain people who go from site to site and target certain members on boards to begin flame wars with. Those people do not last very long on any site but they certainly make themselves known wherever they land. As we have seen here, many of us, myself included, took the bait and allowed the flamer to get to us. For my part in that, I am sorry. I was disrespected on the forum and in chat and I finally took up for myself..IGNORE would have been better.
As far as the chat being a clique, for me, my understanding of a clique is that it EXCLUDES others ....I do not feel that chat is that way at all. There are members with strong differing beliefs , different "spins" on reality, on what truth is, deep issues really.....yet we agree to respectfully disagree and neverrrrrrr become ugly. 
In my expierence, any SM member that comes into chat is welcomed and warmed and included. I am not there every day, but I am there often enough, and EVERYONE is warmed..
I have now learned that IGNORE USER IN ROOM ( for chat) will be the way I will deal with any other FLAMERS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_war. I have also made use of the IGNORE USERS POST, and I really think this is the way to go in the future.
I love my "family-like" friends here , I love everyone's doggies, I love SM and I hope as a community we can pull together and move on in a postive way. Life is too short.


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

Me again...Joe, with SO many members, maybe you should consider having some moderators? I don't know much about how all those things work but on a few other forums I have been a part of that have very high membership they have moderators. There may even be some here at SM, but I am not aware of it.

Anyway, again--thank you!! The high membership is a credit to you and your forum's success!!


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

thanks everyone for their comments, chat is a great thing, the times i go there i have great fun, i will go there again as I hope many of us do, the "clique" i am referring to, and maybe i am using the wrong word, but i'm referring to the gang like mentality that can happen there, something may happen personal between two members but others will join in for no real reason, that is what we have to get away from and i think a short suspension of chat will allow ALL of us time to consider what has happened and how we will act in the future, i have owned many different forums, for many years, it is the nature of the beast for members to come and go, its sad, but it happens, we dont need to act in a way to discourage participation, we all need to act in a way to influence it, to bring more knowledge, bring more stories, experiences, laughs and love

Faye, as far as my comments and yours i just think we were on two different pages, again, chat is a great thing, i love the ability to talk in real time with others about our fluff butts, each others, our lives, our projects, work life, anything at all, thats what it is there for and i do encourage friendships, emails, chats and phone calls outside of SM, what concerns me is what happens inside SM chat, the snide remarks, rudeness, the cattiness, outright name calling and rumour starting, its going to end here, i will treat those who act like children like children, members new and old, if it doesnt stop on its own, i will inforce chat suspensions, PM suspensions, member suspensions, or bans, I shouldnt be forced to sort these kind of things that take up my time, livelyhood and patience, I provided an avenue for the SM site, the member base defines its direction and growth, i hope all of us as adults can do great things with it for the future

thanks again everyone


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## samuelette (Apr 9, 2006)

As I am one of the members thats was involved in the ugly chat thursday night I would like to say that I am very sorry for causing Joe all this turmoil, in the heat of the moment we never considered that Joe would have to deal with our mess. Joe has been nice enough to provide this forum and it was abused, there is no good excuse for bad manners.

To the others who use chat that were not involved in the incident, I am sorry my actions have taken away your ability to chat to your pals here, mosty to our nembers from Australia who only get to chat on weekends because of the time difference.

To all other members I am sorry for causing such uglieness on a forum thats means so much to you.


Patricia


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> I haven't posted on this forum for almost 2 months and I am only posting now cause this topic is very important... ... ... .[/B]


Andrea, 
I agree with nearly everything you said - it's as if you read the message I had typed but was dithering about posting. Glad I didn't have to, because it would probably have put some hackles up. 

I love this forum, I very much like nearly all of the members but others have made me feel, somehow, "inferior" and an "outsider" because we tend to do things differently here. Not correctly nor incorrectly, just differently - including the apparently gratuitous use of the letter "U" for which I have been berated in the past







It reminded me of the time I was a quiz-master and had to ask a question about the group ZZ Top. Imagine the hilarity when I pronounced it ZED ZED Top - didn't seem any sillier than ZEE ZEE Top to me







(just a bit of Brit humoUr - before anyone reaches for the PM button







)

Yes, I have allowed myself to be annoyed by and respond to a flamer on the forum but I also tried to help out with the GME research, some members wanted, in the UK and Europe only to be told, in no uncertain terms, to butt-out - by PM, of course. There have been two or three OPs that complained about obvious cliques or ganging-up among some of the members. Even though you can clearly see them following each other through the topics, to my eternal shame, I actually supported some of the clique-ism (real word?) seen here and tried to justify it. I would like to apologise to the OPs.

I have never visited "chat" but I think it is a good idea for those who want to pursue the life's trials, lifestyle decisions and human medical issues to do so away from a dog forum. It seems natural to me that people who have specific other interests should group-up in related forums or whatever. That way those who want to read, learn and talk/chat about Maltese dogs on SM do not have to wade through more and more irrelevant topics many of which masquerade as Maltese or k9 related. However, there seems to be no need to say to the forum at large that our little group ( I suspect it is a little group or a very few teenie-weenie groups) has split-off - it's bound to have a negative effect on other members - kinda leaves a sour taste yanno!

Well, I suppose this is me signing-off. But I hope nobody minds if I drop in occasionally just to read any useful new Maltese-related topics there may be.

Ta-ta
Lorraine.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> thanks everyone for their comments, chat is a great thing, the times i go there i have great fun, i will go there again as I hope many of us do, the "clique" i am referring to, and maybe i am using the wrong word, but i'm referring to the gang like mentality that can happen there, something may happen personal between two members but others will join in for no real reason, that is what we have to get away from and i think a short suspension of chat will allow ALL of us time to consider what has happened and how we will act in the future, i have owned many different forums, for many years, it is the nature of the beast for members to come and go, its sad, but it happens, we dont need to act in a way to discourage participation, we all need to act in a way to influence it, to bring more knowledge, bring more stories, experiences, laughs and love
> 
> Faye, as far as my comments and yours i just think we were on two different pages, again, chat is a great thing, i love the ability to talk in real time with others about our fluff butts, each others, our lives, our projects, work life, anything at all, thats what it is there for and i do encourage friendships, emails, chats and phone calls outside of SM, what concerns me is what happens inside SM chat, the snide remarks, rudeness, the cattiness, outright name calling and rumour starting, its going to end here, i will treat those who act like children like children, members new and old, if it doesnt stop on its own, i will inforce chat suspensions, PM suspensions, member suspensions, or bans, I shouldnt be forced to sort these kind of things that take up my time, livelyhood and patience, I provided an avenue for the SM site, the member base defines its direction and growth, i hope all of us as adults can do great things with it for the future
> 
> thanks again everyone[/B]



Well said Joe. Chat is a wonderful thing, and it has allowed many of us to make friends with people all over the world. We do make phone calls, send emails, and even plan visits. And, all this started because of you.
I don't think there is a person who does engage in chat on a regular basis who wants anything but the best for this forum, and for chat. I, too, wish you could be there more often to have fun with us. I find it a good way to unwind after work.

While I was not present when the latest uproar took place, the person who caused this conflict tried to bait me in chat a few nights before in regard to another breeder. I chose to ignore her. When she finally asked me a direct question that was hard not respond to, I just told her "you have to do what is best for you". Some of us had tried to ignore her from the first night she entered chat. She would make snide, ugly comments about that. So, my thinking is that this member was primed for trouble from the beginning. I've seen this behavior from her on other chat sites before she was banned there too.


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## lillady (Jan 25, 2007)

Thanks for posting Joe and I, too, and so sorry you have to deal with childish behaviour!







Like you said-we are all adults here and nobody should be treated other than with respect. Thank you so much for all you do with the website Joe! It is the highlight of my day sometimes!


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## Morkie4 (Oct 13, 2006)

I've never been in SM's chat room and most likely will not go there. It's a shame a few ruin the joys some get in chat by careless words, snide remarks, hurtful words and uncaring feelings. 

I still come to veiw the lovely pics and health related issues that are posted on SM as I find great value in the information. I've only had a problem with one person from SM but it took place on another forum...........and is way behind me!!!

Sorry Joe, it should have never happened because anyone and everyone could have easily walked out of chat with a click of the mouse . It is something you should have never had to deal with. Hopefully everyone who uses the "privilege" and "gift" of the chat room will appreciate what you do and use it wisely and properly in the future. Thanks for allowing me to be a part of your wonderful forum!!!


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## Baxter and Wally's Mom (Aug 18, 2005)

Don't know what happened, but I'm rarely surprised anymore. I know there are still plenty of members here that aren't out to be top dog, most prolific poster, most picture posts etc., etc. There is so much valuable information to be used here from the real, true members like Deb, Sher, Susan, Jamie,MissyMom......oh so many who make everyone feel welcome from day one. Then you get the ones who just want to be "ON' all the time with little to contribute but want to see their names in lights, so to speak. 

I dropped off considerably awhile back when one poster PM'd me telling me (among other stuff) "She's never even heard of me before!" I had posted, tongue in cheek, to her complaining that she wasn't getting enough replies to her posts, that didn't have enough time in my day to post to all the topics on the forum. I never replied back to her PM because it would not have been nice, so I dropped it. But it did make me stop and think that some of the cliques have taken over and some of us were not invited.

Joe, you run an amazing forum, with many women I have never met, but love dearly. Thanks so much

Jean


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## phesty (May 30, 2006)

Thank you Joe, for everything you do for us! I'm sorry that you have to deal with drama.

I would like to remind everyone that while most of us are adults, there are several younger members. We need to act like adults and in a manner that is appropriate for the wonderful kiddos we have around here. I need to heed this warning myself on occasion and will be making an active effort to do so.

Thanks again, Joe! You rock!!!!


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## Furbaby's Mommie (Jul 10, 2004)

Lorraine: You have been a favorite poster of mine since you started and I miss hearing from you. I hope you will stay around and post dog stuff. I am here for "dog stuff". I was very amazed by your pro-active involvement in the GME crisis. You know how to get things done.







I'm so sorry if something negative happened because of it.



Joe and everyone else: I am speechless. I don't understand any of this. There are subjects I feel passionate about and do get involved in, like the lameness of AMA on Maltese health, but I don't understand using a dog forum (or it's extended resources) for other things. Maybe an occasional comment of well wishing or birthday wishes unrelated to Malts, but if I wanted in talk about anything personal I would try to get ahold of the person outside of SM. We all have personal email and telephones and snail mail don't we? Most have personal IM. Using this forum and it's resources for so much personal stuff just doesn't even make sense to me. If you feel an interest in a certain poster, ask them for their personal contact info and carry on your friendship outside of SM.

I've made a couple of real doosy of mistakes here. One because I simply cared about someone's welfare but spoke in the wrong way. That was a couple of years ago. I learned a hard lesson--it's stick to dogs! 

This forum of Joe's has been a wonderful resource for important information on health and care of a Maltese for me. I've been here since 2004. I can't think you enough Joe for what you have done here. I feel horrible that you have suffered over it. I said before I don't use chat, I don't see any reason for it, and if it causes problems get rid of it. My opinion. Those who wish to keep up with each other's personal life, should do it on a personal basis.









I want to thank Kim, Joe's wife too. It must have cost you a lot Kim, emotionally to have Joe dealing with this. God bless you both, and give you a healthy peaceful weekend.









Dee


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## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

> As I am one of the members thats was involved in the ugly chat thursday night I would like to say that I am very sorry for causing Joe all this turmoil, in the heat of the moment we never considered that Joe would have to deal with our mess. Joe has been nice enough to provide this forum and it was abused, there is no good excuse for bad manners.
> 
> To the others who use chat that were not involved in the incident, I am sorry my actions have taken away your ability to chat to your pals here, mosty to our nembers from Australia who only get to chat on weekends because of the time difference.
> 
> ...


 

I second what Patricia said. It did get crazy and feelings were hurt. Some truths were spoken but lost among the name calling and rhetoric. 

I hope it doesn't deter anyone from participating in chat in the future as it can be so much fun.

Joe, you do a great job with this forum and we all appreciate it. 

Brit


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## PreciousPrince (Feb 27, 2006)

Wow. I wasn't on yesterday, so I'm just now seeing this. I wasn't in chat when this happened so I don't know what is going on, but it sure doesn't sound good. I like going in chat and always have a good time, so it's sad that a few might have ruined it for the rest of us. I agree with Joe's post about simply suspending chat privileges for those that can't play nice with others. That way, those of us who can act like adults can still use it. Joe I'm so sorry you have to deal with things like this.


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## cruisinpat (Jan 29, 2007)

Joe, I'm so sorry that you have to deal with this. Although I am relatively new here I have posted alot. I have been in chat a few times. I have gone there but have not participated much. As I posted on another thread I feel that, if the comments are ignored, the people will go away. I pride myself on being a good listener and a good friend. I hate when an adult acts like a child. I have seen things happen on other boards and chat rooms also. It only takes a few to ruin a good thing for the rest of us. It's time for those involved to grow up and get a life. Life is just too short to bicker in person or on the internet. 

Thanks, Joe, for all that you do to keep this board enjoyable. Hopefully this will be the last time that you have to treat a bunch of adults like a bunch of middle-schoolers. Take care and God Bless....................Pat


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## 2maltese4me (May 8, 2006)

I guess because I'm not on much, I've never witnessed this sort of thing....but, being on other message boards, I have witnessed some ugly stuff....really ugly. It amazes me that some people will put that much time and effort into making things unpleasant.


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

"Be nice and Polite" That thread was just posted on April 9th. What a great reminder that was. Treat people the way you wish to be treated. There have been a few times since then, that I have been stunned at the snappiness of some posts. Besides the snappiness, theres the name calling. I have to wonder what kind of person name calls in a thread that was started to expain that people were upset.









I know I am a big nobody here. I really don't mind though. I come here to learn about maltese. I love maltese and every bit of information I can pick up can be helpful to me. I sometimes do post, but not as much as I can. With wanting to learn all I can, I also would like to contribute more, but with so many different personalites I don't want to say anything wrong by accident and possibly start something or be insulted for my opinions. 

I really liked Frosty's Mom's post in this thread.







I believe she worded it stick to dogs. That is very wise advise.









To finish this I hope I worded everything I am trying to say correctly. The last thing I want to do is upset anyone.


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I feel like I am living in some other universe. I had no idea that there was so much going on behind the scenes. I went to chat a little in the beginning and I also found it to be somewhat catty and hard to follow. So, I didn't continue. No big deal. I have a small group of people that I talk to from SM and we communicate via IM, PM, or email.

Andrea and Lorraine, I had noticed that you had been away. I sometimes just need a break from the posting so I figured that you were both busy and would come back when you could. I'm really sorry to know that you feel unwelcome. I am particularly confused about the GME thing. Lorraine, you were getting an amazing amount of info and I thought it was great. I just don't know what else to say. 

To everyone else I am going to paraphrase the statement that I made to Joe in a PM. In my opinion Maltese are a breed under seige. When one person has a problem and needs the support of the group, all of the problems that we encounter here cease to exist and that person gets the help, support and love that they need. It makes the whole site worthwhile.

Peace


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

> To everyone else I am going to paraphrase the statement that I made to Joe in a PM. In my opinion Maltese are a breed under seige. When one person has a problem and needs the support of the group, all of the problems that we encounter here cease to exist and that person gets the help, support and love that they need. It makes the whole site worthwhile.
> 
> Peace[/B]


I have to agree 100% on you here, I remember all the wonderful support Scooby and I got when he was so ill, and I appreciated every single post and PM of encouragement and prayers, without all the kindness and concern I felt here it would have been just so lonely and difficult a time for both myself and hubby to go through. We are a fantastic family group here and there is just so much warmth and feeling to be shared for everyone.
I feel that SM is a great site put together for us by Joe, I truly appreciate all you do Joe. There are areas where we don't have to just discuss our fluff butts ie: Anything Goes, Everything Else and the Jokes department and with common courtesy and compassion for every member these are great avenues for us to enjoy.
I surely hope I have never offended anyone, I try very hard to treat all members as I would like to be treated. I am the first to admit I am not as knowledgable as some and any input I feel I can give I do but mostly I just enjoy the pictures etc. the learning experiences, the fun and also the heartfelt sorrows and feelings for those of us who are going through difficult times either with their little Malts or family.
I don't frequent chat like I used to simply because I have trouble at times reading all the text, by the time I get to reply to someone the message is gone and my input is old







This is simply because I need glasses to read and my readers are just not suitable for the screen, they make it harder for me to see.
Also since having Koko I am flat out with him most of the time, forever trying to keep him out of trouble







He sure has been a shock to both our systems, but we adore him, just needs time to grow up and settle, hopefully that will be soon









Janet


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## rubyjeansmom (Jan 6, 2005)

> :
> 
> " I know I am a big nobody here. I really don't mind though. I come here to learn about maltese. I love maltese and every bit of information I can pick up can be helpful to me. I sometimes do post, but not as much as I can. With wanting to learn all I can, I also would like to contribute more, but with so many different personalites I don't want to say anything wrong by accident and possibly start something or be insulted for my opinions."
> 
> ...


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## my baby (Aug 22, 2006)

I am sorry Joe that things have got so ugly on SM recently, it is such a shame that our wonderful site has come to this. I just wanted to thank you for all the effort you put into the site, Snoop and I really appreciate it!


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## theboyz (Jan 10, 2007)

Dear Precious Paws, Ruby Jeans Mom, Andrea, Lorraine and all others:
Bob and I value each and everyone of you and your imformation that you give to us and we hope our experience and knowledge helps others as well. We love SM because it is a place to come and learn, see wonderful pictures and feel like a family with all of you. There are things that make us laugh and bring tears. You are the first thing in the morning and last at night, seeing what is happening with our friends and their babies. We NEED all of you and feel bad that this "thing" is hovering over our site. Joe has done an incredible job bringing us all together and helping this Maltese family grow and welcome folks as they find us.
Whatever happened is over. Lets go on, re-group our family and be one. We don't have to agree with everyones ideas, we all have an opinion so lets just put our ideas TOGETHER and learn from experiences and know that right or wrong we try to do our best. 

Bob, Marsha and The Boyz


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> Dear Precious Paws, Ruby Jeans Mom, Andrea, Lorraine and all others:
> Bob and I value each and everyone of you and your imformation that you give to us and we hope our experience and knowledge helps others as well. We love SM because it is a place to come and learn, see wonderful pictures and feel like a family with all of you. There are things that make us laugh and bring tears. You are the first thing in the morning and last at night, seeing what is happening with our friends and their babies. We NEED all of you and feel bad that this "thing" is hovering over our site. Joe has done an incredible job bringing us all together and helping this Maltese family grow and welcome folks as they find us.
> Whatever happened is over. Lets go on, re-group our family and be one. We don't have to agree with everyones ideas, we all have an opinion so lets just put our ideas TOGETHER and learn from experiences and know that right or wrong we try to do our best.
> 
> Bob, Marsha and The Boyz[/B]


Oh, that was so very well said! Last year I took a break from posting for a couple months and then realized that if I only read posts, I am only taking from SM ... I felt I needed not only to take, but to give, as well. If all of us just read posts, there would eventually be nothing new to read!!


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

well, since i always find myself confused and out of the loop in most cases, i really don't have much input... 

BUT, i always have something to say...







lol

ok....i feel that here, our malts are very important to us so comments regarding them are taken very personally. so, of course things will get heated when something unkind is said. though i find in some instances, some things that are written aren't taken the way the poster meant, and sometimes can cause hurt feelings on both ends. this is the internet, we can not hear the tone in which a statement is written so we can not always decipher the intent.

i was not in chat the other night, i do not know what went on there.... but i do know what ever happened caused a whole bunch of ruckus.









i love it here, i love hearing about everyone, dogs or otherwise... i feel that i can come here for support and i'm always willing to offer my support to others. i sure hope i was not one of the people who "snubbed" another member, if so, i would like to apologize to you immediately.

i sure hope joe doesn't get fed up enough to eliminate SM altogether. i would feel lost with out this place.

and if this seems incoherent, i'm sorry.... i wrote this in between bathing my skin kids....lol.


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## DianL (Mar 28, 2007)

I have only been here for a short time and have never been in chat so I have no input about it. I do agree 100% with Joe. The Golden Rule should apply on the internet as well as in everyday life.


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## The A Team (Dec 1, 2005)

I've only been in chat once or twice....so I, too, am out of the loop here but it's a shame a few ruin it for the rest. It's so nice to see everyone's pictures and hear the funny stories and to get a glimpse of other's lives. I hope Joe doesn't get tired of the whole forum, we're almost family here


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## saltymalty (Sep 14, 2004)

I am so sorry that things in chat have gotten out of control. I don't participate in chat, and I've only tried to log on once with no success. I couldn't figure it out. As usual, I'm a step behind and a bit out of the loop. I do want to tell Joe and the other members here that I greatly appreciate your warmth, kindness and friendship. A while back I did have a problem w/an individual that made me take pause and re-evaluate why I was here. Then I discovered the ignore poster button. That helped me tremendously. I don't know what went on in chat, nor do I wish to know. But I do know this..there is always more than just what lies on the surface. We are all grown ups, for the most part, and I think we all know how to behave and what common decency is. I think that we have a very wonderful group of very special people here. Some come and go, others have been here for a long time...I've seen it all. I think that the common interest of our pups is what binds us together...it's our differences that make us unique. Let's embrace those differences and respect and appreciate one another for them! 

Now who is going to join me for a much needed margarita?


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## CathyB (Mar 10, 2007)

please pass the margarita


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## Gemma (Jan 19, 2006)

chatting was so fun when I used to go there, but I just can't keep up, using 2 fingers to type







don't take things seriously guys. there are much bigger problems out there. I like everybody here, even the people I don't like







ok that didn't make sense. but anyways I think we should be able to talk about anything we like and just be polite and respect each others opinions. now if someone is just plain rude just ignore them, most likely they have some other kind of problems in their life. don't take it personal.


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## Cathy (Mar 19, 2006)

Andrea and Lorraine, I had noticed that you had been away. I sometimes just need a break from the posting so I figured that you were both busy and would come back when you could. I'm really sorry to know that you feel unwelcome. I am particularly confused about the GME thing. Lorraine, you were getting an amazing amount of info and I thought it was great. I just don't know what else to say. 

[/QUOTE]

Lorraine, I too, had no idea why you weren't posting anymore. I can't fathom why anyone would tell you to stop pursuing the GME/NME assistance. This makes absolutely no sense to me and shame on whoever discouraged you from helping. As someone personally affected by NME I feel that the more interest in the diseases from the Maltese and Vet communities the better.

As for chat, I hope that Joe allows it to start again. I didn't spend a lot of time there but enough to get to know some of the members better. It was always a lot of fun except when I was being sent to stand in the corner.







I hope that if it opens again those involved in the mud slinging can agree to disagree and move on.


Cathy A


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## starry (Sep 4, 2006)

> Andrea and Lorraine, I had noticed that you had been away. I sometimes just need a break from the posting so I figured that you were both busy and would come back when you could. I'm really sorry to know that you feel unwelcome. I am particularly confused about the GME thing. Lorraine, you were getting an amazing amount of info and I thought it was great. I just don't know what else to say.


Lorraine, I too, had no idea why you weren't posting anymore. I can't fathom why anyone would tell you to stop pursuing the GME/NME assistance. This makes absolutely no sense to me and shame on whoever discouraged you from helping. As someone personally affected by NME I feel that the more interest in the diseases from the Maltese and Vet communities the better.

As for chat, I hope that Joe allows it to start again. I didn't spend a lot of time there but enough to get to know some of the members better. It was always a lot of fun except when I was being sent to stand in the corner.







I hope that if it opens again those involved in the mud slinging can agree to disagree and move on.


Cathy A
[/QUOTE]
I feel the same as Cathy.
I don't know either who would discourage you from researching GME or NME.








It definitly was not me! I sadly will review any knowledge.
I wasn't even going to post on this thread since I don't know what happened.
I would be lost w/out this forum as I am obcessed with it and not doing my other online business.







.
I hate to see Andrea and Lorraine leave or anyone that has been helpful and supportive.








Joe, please consider everyone rechecked here and don't leave us! Thanks! Lisa


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

I have never been to the chat room and actually I really can't imagine what could have happened. I am dying to know though!! I think many people have made great points...its easier to say things anonymously (via web) and its easy to be mean and unkind. This forum is such a great place, that I still stop by to read when I have a chance to take a break from my busy life. Its important to keep things in perspective though -- someone very wise once told me that I need to pick my battles. I do try to remember that when I get upset over meaningless things (which have happened here). Anyways, enough with my rambling, lol.


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## honeybun (Mar 6, 2007)

I have only been here a short time, and this site is really great better than others. I came here for the sake of Maltese, to get away from the real world of spite that exists in the show world. It would be a shame to see it ruined.


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## precious paws (Jun 7, 2006)

> Dear Precious Paws, Ruby Jeans Mom, Andrea, Lorraine and all others:
> Bob and I value each and everyone of you and your imformation that you give to us and we hope our experience and knowledge helps others as well. We love SM because it is a place to come and learn, see wonderful pictures and feel like a family with all of you. There are things that make us laugh and bring tears. You are the first thing in the morning and last at night, seeing what is happening with our friends and their babies. We NEED all of you and feel bad that this "thing" is hovering over our site. Joe has done an incredible job bringing us all together and helping this Maltese family grow and welcome folks as they find us.
> Whatever happened is over. Lets go on, re-group our family and be one. We don't have to agree with everyones ideas, we all have an opinion so lets just put our ideas TOGETHER and learn from experiences and know that right or wrong we try to do our best.
> 
> Bob, Marsha and The Boyz[/B]


This is such a nice post. Thanks for the kind words.







Thanks also to those people who sent me PM's.







If you all lived closer I would have you and your dog's over for a maltese party!


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

I have been reading this thread with interest for several days trying to decide if I should post or not. I've never gone to Chat so I can't comment on the problems there. But I do see from many of the posts that the problems that occur on the forum have spilled over to chat and are perhaps a bit worse (perhaps because there is no "permanent record" of what you say, it is typed and dissappears).

But I too am a member that was thrilled to find this place, started as an enthusiatic poster making SM my first internet stop everyday. But over time it became clear that the "gang mentality" prevailed and I got tired of being put down, insulted, and told how wrong I was. It was also clear that if you weren't a member of the "in crowd" you were pretty much ignored, unless of course it was to be told how wrong you were. 

So like so many others, I simply stopped posting and went to read only status. Once in awhile I post but not very often. Over the last two years I have meet some very lovely people on the forum, people who have been supportive and helpful (mostly in PM's) and who I have enjoyed developing a relationship with. But I have also seen people come in and take over, they post dozens of threads, express their opinion about everything and in general make the rest of us feel like idiots. I've seen the forum held hostage by a mentally unbalanced women who used it as an outlet for psychoramblings. There have been times when posters have tried to express their feelings about their own treatment on SM and have been torn apart by a handful telling them how wrong they were.

I don't believe, and find it a bit insulting that the comment was made, that it has anything to do with being "women". I am a member of another forum that is made up of an equal number of women and NEVER have I seen the things occur there that happen regularly on this forum. The last straw was not too long ago when a new member quoted something I had posted, but edited it suit their purpose, and then blasted me fro posting it. What that poster quoted was not at all what I said. 

In reading over the pages of this thread it is also clear that some of the worst offenders hold themselves blameless. I have the utmost respect for those of you who posted to say "it was me and I am sorry". There are a number of posts on this thread from the worst offenders, claiming to be innocent. 

So I join the long line who say THANKS JOE for all your work and effort but for now I'll mostly read. And least you think I am just "slamming" the forum, there is alot of good stuff here to read. There are many well informed owners here who provide good sound advice, are helpful and giving and make this place a joy. 

Someone mentioned "Moderators" and I think that is an excellent point. My other forums have moderators. They are people who step in and say ENOUGH when things start heading down the wrong path. But I'm not sure that, at this point, Joe has that much trust in any of us.


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## Zoe and Bella's mom (Jan 23, 2006)

Joe, I am not involved with live chats but just want you to know that I appreciate _all_ you do for Spoiled Maltese. I am not on as much as I used to be but really appreciate the recent support that I found here, especially with the Zoe/vet incident. 

ginny & zoe & bella


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> I have been reading this thread with interest for several days trying to decide if I should post or not. I've never gone to Chat so I can't comment on the problems there. But I do see from many of the posts that the problems that occur on the forum have spilled over to chat and are perhaps a bit worse (perhaps because there is no "permanent record" of what you say, it is typed and dissappears).
> 
> But I too am a member that was thrilled to find this place, started as an enthusiatic poster making SM my first internet stop everyday. But over time it became clear that the "gang mentality" prevailed and I got tired of being put down, insulted, and told how wrong I was. It was also clear that if you weren't a member of the "in crowd" you were pretty much ignored, unless of course it was to be told how wrong you were.
> 
> ...



I hope everyone who has read this thread goes back and THOROUGHLY reads what you have to say. You bring up something I know a number of members have expressed before, often to fall on a deaf ear. 

The majority of the people posting to this thread are focusing just on the chat without having any personal knowledge of what does go on there on a day to day basis, yet ignore some of the blatent things that do go on within the forum. You, on the other hand, see the issue as much broader than what went on in chat. I think EVERYONE (me included) need to look at their actions on the day to day use of this site.

The written word is there for all to see. And, just a few words can do damage to someone you really don't know, a friend, or a business. For instance, just today, I read a post where a new owner called her breeder an "inferior" breeder in a thread. That statement is out there for all the world to see now. Some people come here with simple questions, yet they get lectures that are uncalled for, and at times cruel.

Puppymom, it took courage to state what you did. But, if it can help change the focus of what is going on, then I know you have done a great service to all of us here at SM.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

> I have been reading this thread with interest for several days trying to decide if I should post or not. I've never gone to Chat so I can't comment on the problems there. But I do see from many of the posts that the problems that occur on the forum have spilled over to chat and are perhaps a bit worse (perhaps because there is no "permanent record" of what you say, it is typed and dissappears).
> 
> But I too am a member that was thrilled to find this place, started as an enthusiatic poster making SM my first internet stop everyday. But over time it became clear that the "gang mentality" prevailed and I got tired of being put down, insulted, and told how wrong I was. It was also clear that if you weren't a member of the "in crowd" you were pretty much ignored, unless of course it was to be told how wrong you were.
> 
> ...


Good post, my friend











Now start posting more often. I miss your sense of reality


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## my baby (Aug 22, 2006)

Great post Puppy Mum!!!







So much truth in what you said!
We will miss you if you stop posting!!


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## Jacki (Jul 13, 2006)

> I have been reading this thread with interest for several days trying to decide if I should post or not. I've never gone to Chat so I can't comment on the problems there. But I do see from many of the posts that the problems that occur on the forum have spilled over to chat and are perhaps a bit worse (perhaps because there is no "permanent record" of what you say, it is typed and dissappears).
> 
> But I too am a member that was thrilled to find this place, started as an enthusiatic poster making SM my first internet stop everyday. But over time it became clear that the "gang mentality" prevailed and I got tired of being put down, insulted, and told how wrong I was. It was also clear that if you weren't a member of the "in crowd" you were pretty much ignored, unless of course it was to be told how wrong you were.
> 
> ...


Ginny, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed reading your thoughtful and balanced post. It *really* made me think, and for that I thank you.







You are right that chat is not the only place we have problems -- though sometimes the problems can escalate more quickly in chat because of its immediacy. 

We would all -- me especially, I have such a big mouth sometimes!!! -- do very well to consider carefully before posting anything. I've learned a lot from this forum and I feel that despite any personal differences that exist, we each do have something to contribute.

I would also like to say that if I have done something to offend anyone or have been guilty of any of the problems we are discussing, I truly apologize. If my words have ever gotten the best of me and spilled out inappropriately, I am sorry for that, and if I have hurt anyone, I ask your forgiveness. True, not everyone will get along perfectly, but that's not a reason to make others feel bad or unwelcome.


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

I found myself agreeing with everything PuppyMom said until I reached:


> I've seen the forum held hostage by a mentally unbalanced women who used it as an outlet for psychoramblings.[/B]


That from a registered nurse and endorsed/condoned/not commented on by another profesional in the psycho (something) field - sorry I can't remember which. Maybe those threads were difficult and heart-rending to read but, very many members sincerely did what they could to try to help in some way. Now... what if the lady in question is beginning to recover, visits the forum to try to get back to some normality in her life and reads this? C'mon







.



> There are a number of posts on this thread from the worst offenders, claiming to be innocent.[/B]


Very few of them/us/me included are as white as the driven snow. I am aware the English sense of humour does not travel well and some people have taken offense. I'm truly sorry if that has happened to anyone of this forum. However I have had a fair share of being ignored/snubbed/ridiculed on this board myself. The last straw that led me to stop posting was *possibly* a "throw away" remark directed at me when I felt I had to disagree with a member on something I felt very strongly about.


> Thanks (name irrelevant) for saying it so well. I didn't have the time or energy to respond.[/B]


Seems quite innocuous in itself but, in context, I confess, it caused me to throw in the towel at that time. Today, as a remark, it doesn't bother me one jot







But Deanna has a very apposite tagline:
_“I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” ~ Maya Angelou_


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

> Then you get the ones who just want to be "ON' all the time with little to contribute but want to see their names in lights, so to speak.[/B]


<span style="font-family:Comic Sans Ms">Maybe this isn't the right place to ask this but here I go anyway. This is my first and only forum I've been involved in (and love it btw!) I tried chat once but wasn't quick enough on my replies so found it very confusing as to who was responding to what! LOL Anywhooo....my question is...is it considered impolite to not respond to posts. I always feel bad when I see a post with only 1 or 2 replies. I also wonder if people don't reply to your post if you haven't replied to one of theirs? So when I have the extra time, I try to respond to as many posts as possible. But after reading the above statement, am wondering if that is me when I'm just trying to be polite? What is considered proper forum etiquette?</span>


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

Lorraine, my comment was not intended to be offensive or insensitive. Judging by the huge number of PM's I received at the time the problem occurred and today after my post there is a very large number of people who were equally disturbed by the event. This is a MALTESE FORUM and although off topic issues are certainly a part of any forum in that paticular circustance I believe many on SM were enabling the behavior not helping it. 

I am overwhelmed by the number of PM's I have recieved today, I have been away all day and never expected to hear from so many people who felt the same way that I did. It is encouraging. This is a great forum and those of us who want to keep it that way can do so by continuing to participate in a positive way. 

As my Mother always said...... if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all!


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## gottagettamaltee (Dec 1, 2005)

I don't usually post much, mainly because of the same reason this topic has been started. I'm not saying i'm some innocent angel, but i've read this thread over a couple of times. I don't know who was involved in whatever happened with chat, but a lot of the people who are involved in the rudeness, cattyness, or whatever you want to call it, in every day posts are simply making up excuses for their behavior. That's not exactly fessing up for your actions, you're just trying to excuse them. You may not have been involved in the chat thing, but you hurt and offend others through other means, whether it be PM or on the forum posts. The members who apologized for their actions showed matureness and responsibility, admitting they did something wrong. But those of you who tried to excuse your behavior, shame on you. 

It's sad though, because I've seen a couple of replies on different threads (after the fact) that still show some people just aren't taking this situation seriously. Can we all be considerate of people's feelings, whether on the internet or in every day life?

I greatly enjoy this website and have made a couple of good friends through it. So those of you who feel like leaving the website because you've been picked on or offended, please don't leave. 

And to puppymom, myself being one who PM'd you, i commend you in your reply.














I was going to reply to this thread but then erased it and i feel like erasing it again still. If there are so many others who feel this way, who feel they are being "ganged up on" so to say, offended, hurt, etc., we can't all be crazy! obviously there is a real problem! 



> <span style="font-family:Comic Sans Ms">Maybe this isn't the right place to ask this but here I go anyway. This is my first and only forum I've been involved in (and love it btw!) I tried chat once but wasn't quick enough on my replies so found it very confusing as to who was responding to what! LOL Anywhooo....my question is...is it considered impolite to not respond to posts. I always feel bad when I see a post with only 1 or 2 replies. I also wonder if people don't reply to your post if you haven't replied to one of theirs? So when I have the extra time, I try to respond to as many posts as possible. But after reading the above statement, am wondering if that is me when I'm just trying to be polite? What is considered proper forum etiquette?</span>[/B]


i wonder the same thing at times. I usually only get a couple of replies to my posts when i ask questions and i figured it was either one of two things: it's a question that no one feels like answering because maybe it's been asked and i haven't looked far back enough in old posts.. or.. i don't respond to hardly any posts (but believe me, i read like ALL OF THEM!) so if i don't reply to people's posts, they won't reply to mine?


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## Jacki (Jul 13, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=367166
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I'd be so interested to see the replies to this. Previously, posts have been made by folks who felt bad that they were not getting many replies to their posts. I don't even remember who, but I do remember thinking that while I was sorry they felt slighted, it's unrealistic to expect that everyone has the time to respond to each post they read. So even though it's disappointing to make a post that doesn't get a lot of feedback, I try to take it with the attitude that everyone else is as busy (or busier) than I am, and I don't get to reply to all posts I view, so ... basically I just try not to take it personally!


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> ... Judging by the huge number of PM's I received at the time the problem occurred and today after my post there is a very large number of people who were equally disturbed by the event.
> 
> ... I am overwhelmed by the number of PM's I have recieved today, ...[/B]


Private "Fan Mail" is great to receive but I do wish more people would voice their opinions at the "Gig" itself. Because, when PMs are cited as support/justification for a point of view, as they are so often lately, to some minds it increases the incidence (or unfounded accusations) of even more cliques/gangs forming around certain issues. JMO.


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## paris (Apr 8, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=368861
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Here recently I have pretty much stopped posting...not reading, but posting. It's not because I don't like this place anymore because I really do enjoy SM. It just seems that there are replies that are getting out of hand and some just down right rude. I've seen people ask sincere questions they really would like to have answered and end up getting blasted for either getting their pup before it is 12 weeks old or doing something else that "just isn't right". I, for one, got Paris when she was 9 weeks old and she came from a byb. Does that make me any less of a person than some others on here or Paris any less of a Maltese? I don't think so. I come here to learn and I have learned so very much. I thank all of you who are willing to share your knowledge...it has definitely made me a better mother to my precious baby girl. I do wish the rude and mean remarks would stop. Sometimes I feel so sorry for the person who asked the question...after all if we don't ask how are we going to learn. You can get your point across without being so mean and/or rude.


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## casa verde maltese (Apr 7, 2007)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=367166
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I feel the same way.
j


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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=368871
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It is because of responses such as yours that people don't post. The number one reason given to me in my "Fan Mail" as you call it, for not responding is fear of being criticized. I expressed an honest opinion, one apparently shared by many others. Rather than accept it for what it is, my opinion, you feel the need to tell me what is wrong with it. I am honored that people feel free, through "Fan Mail" to share their honest feelings with me and don't understand your need to ridicule it.


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=368919
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Oops








My apologies to those who fear being criticised by me but I really do not believe I have ridiculed anyone on this board.
I was expressing an honest opinion, too, having worked with and supported people who are less able than others (visually impaired and/or suffering from Down's Syndrome and/or mental issues) for a number of years. Not as a medical professional, I admit, but as a charity director and carer.


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## gottagettamaltee (Dec 1, 2005)

> Here recently I have pretty much stopped posting...not reading, but posting. It's not because I don't like this place anymore because I really do enjoy SM. It just seems that there are replies that are getting out of hand and some just down right rude. I've seen people ask sincere questions they really would like to have answered and end up getting blasted for either getting their pup before it is 12 weeks old or doing something else that "just isn't right". I, for one, got Paris when she was 9 weeks old and she came from a byb. Does that make me any less of a person than some others on here or Paris any less of a Maltese? I don't think so. I come here to learn and I have learned so very much. I thank all of you who are willing to share your knowledge...it has definitely made me a better mother to my precious baby girl. I do wish the rude and mean remarks would stop. Sometimes I feel so sorry for the person who asked the question...after all if we don't ask how are we going to learn. You can get your point across without being so mean and/or rude.[/B]


Exactly. Everyone started in the beginning as beginners. No one just got involved with maltese or even any dogs as experts. Everything is a learning process. This is a place for maltese, advice, information, cute pictures, and plenty of opinions. so people should be willing to share knowledge, advice, information and opinions in a kind manner. Isn't that what we came here for? for love of our malts?
As far as the issues with BYB, hobbie breeders, show breeders and the likes.. having your puppy come from champion parents doesn't mean it will be the best dog, as some people have mentioned in other posts. Having your dogs come from BYB or hobbie breeders doesn't mean you're doomed with a defective dog either. Mine came from a hobbie/byb breeder and so what? With this site i knew some of what to look for in a breeder and some warning signs. but hobbie/byb are all just labels and i'm sure some "show" breeders don't necessarily breed their dogs any better than a hobbie/byb (some, maybe very few). I happen to know one of breeder who is considered a byb/hobbie breeder on SM, but she still has her breeding carefully planned and thought out and her living conditions she keeps her dogs in are immaculate. i've seen some pictures of "show" breeder set ups on their websites and judging by those conditions, i wouldn't buy from that breeder, champions or not. 

*but like everything here that is said by myself and everyone else.. JUST MY OPINION.*


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

.....pass the margaritas please.....


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## gottagettamaltee (Dec 1, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=368934
> 
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It is because of responses such as yours that people don't post. The number one reason given to me in my "Fan Mail" as you call it, for not responding is fear of being criticized. I expressed an honest opinion, one apparently shared by many others. Rather than accept it for what it is, my opinion, you feel the need to tell me what is wrong with it. I am honored that people feel free, through "Fan Mail" to share their honest feelings with me and don't understand your need to ridicule it.
[/B][/QUOTE]







Oops








My apologies to those who fear being criticised by me but I really do not believe I have ridiculed anyone on this board.
I was expressing an honest opinion, too, having worked with and supported people who are less able than others (visually impaired and/or suffering from Down's Syndrome and/or mental issues) for a number of years. Not as a medical professional, I admit, but as a charity director and carer.
[/B][/QUOTE]

i don't think puppymom meant "you" as in just you, but i think she meant responses in general..and above- responses to posts that challenge the previous poster when they were trying to help express others' opinions who are not inclined to voice their opinions to everyone else, is viewed by some as a little intimidating..



> .....pass the margaritas please.....[/B]


LOL i had an interview this morning and now i think i'll stop posting to this topic.

u can have the margarita.. i'll take the shot of tequila.

pass the lemon wedges, please!


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

> .....pass the margaritas please.....[/B]



no kidding, the bikkering doesnt even stop in posts where i ask it to stop

















maybe i'll just start moderating every single post, let it takr days for replies and generally let the forum go down hill or should i just close it all together, is that what it will take ?????????????????


this thread closed


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