# Is this a reputable breeder or BYB?



## maggpi21 (Mar 29, 2010)

Im looking for my first maltese (which I have wanted for a very long time)

First off, how can I tell if reputable or BYB?

Im looking at a few breeders to see which one is right for me. Has anyone heard of RiAnn Maltese?? 

riannmaltese.com 

I don't know if it is reputable or not and would like some advice.


Second, I am in Northern California and the breeders currently on my list to check out are: (MaltAngel) Maltaangelsmaltese.com, (Rijes) rijesmaltese.com and (Richelieu) richmaltese.com.. If you have experience with any of these I would love some feedback. Thanks everyone!!


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Ann is a very nice lady and is 'getting started' like I am, so she doesn't have a lot on her website (which is a bit outdated) She is getting out there and showing her dogs and learning as much as she can. Does she have puppies available right now? I just saw her a few weekends ago at a show but we didnt' really get to talk.

I've worked with all three of the other breeders you've mentioned and have nothing but good things to say. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions!


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

Looks like Riann Maltese is pretty new to showing (and breeding?). It doesn't look like they have yet finished one of their own dogs. The only champions listed on their website are not owned by them. 

I have a MaltAngel. I adore her and I was very pleased with my experience with Sheila Riley. She has been showing for 20 years and is truly world renowned having produced many beautiful champions. 

Both Rijes and Richelieu have also been around for many many years and have also earned solid reputations in the Maltese community for producing beautiful examples of the breed.


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## pinkpixie1588 (Oct 12, 2009)

Sounds like you've got some great choices there. You're definitely on the right path to getting your perfect baby.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

A reputable breeder is simply any breeder that shows.  Good luck searchin'!


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## 08chrissy08 (Sep 19, 2008)

Both of my babies are from Malt Angels. I have nothing but good things to say about her and my experiences with her. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.


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## maggpi21 (Mar 29, 2010)

Thanks everyone for all your help. I can't wait


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

ilovemymaltese said:


> A reputable breeder is simply any breeder that shows.  Good luck searchin'!


Wow!  

That is so not true! 

Showing is a sign that someone cares and is dedicated to the breed, but there are plenty of folks in the show world I would not consider reputable. Remember, what makes one person reputable varies depending on the qualities you yourself may wish to find, but I would look first at how the puppies are kept, how the health of the dogs is evaluated and many other aspects beyond showing.


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

CloudClan said:


> Wow!
> 
> That is so not true!
> 
> Showing is a sign that someone cares and is dedicated to the breed, but there are plenty of folks in the show world I would not consider reputable. Remember, there what makes one person reputable varies depending on the qualities you yourself may wish to find, but I would look first at how the puppies are kept, how the health of the dogs is evaluated and many other aspects other than showing.


And keep in mind that some breeders only 'show' so that they can SAY they are reputable and charge more for their puppies. But really, they just are in it for profit and may not be breeding the most responsibly.


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## maggpi21 (Mar 29, 2010)

Thanks to you guys though I have a list put together of semi-local breeders who have great reputations on this site. I will hopefully be lucky enough to be able to choose a puppy from one of them.


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## pinkpixie1588 (Oct 12, 2009)

bellaratamaltese said:


> And keep in mind that some breeders only 'show' so that they can SAY they are reputable and charge more for their puppies. But really, they just are in it for profit and may not be breeding the most responsibly.


Plus, can't any breeder with an unaltered AKC reg. dog show, regardless of true quality? I think they just don't do that well, but can still SAY they're active in the show world. I've seen some 'show dogs' that didn't look all that close to standard at all.


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## 3Maltmom (May 23, 2005)

CloudClan said:


> Wow!
> 
> That is so not true!
> 
> Showing is a sign that someone cares and is dedicated to the breed, but there are plenty of folks in the show world I would not consider reputable. Remember, what makes one person reputable varies depending on the qualities you yourself may wish to find, but I would look first at how the puppies are kept, how the health of the dogs is evaluated and many other aspects beyond showing.


Oh yes, Hollybelle's comes to mind:

Pet-Abuse.Com - Animal Abuse Case Details: Puppy mill - 230 dogs seized - Franklin, TN (US)

Homework must be done, whether looking at Show Breeders, or Rescues.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

CloudClan said:


> Wow!
> 
> That is so not true!
> 
> Showing is a sign that someone cares and is dedicated to the breed, but there are plenty of folks in the show world I would not consider reputable. Remember, what makes one person reputable varies depending on the qualities you yourself may wish to find, but I would look first at how the puppies are kept, how the health of the dogs is evaluated and many other aspects beyond showing.


True, I should've re-worded it and say I wouldn't buy a puppy from someone who *didn't* show or have finished champions. Not all show breeders are in it to better the breed.



bellaratamaltese said:


> And keep in mind that some breeders only 'show' so that they can SAY they are reputable and charge more for their puppies. *But really, they just are in it for profit* and may not be breeding the most responsibly.


Really? I didn't know they made a profit. I though dog showing is too exspensive for you NOT to love and better the breed. LOL 




pinkpixie1588 said:


> *Plus, can't any breeder with an unaltered AKC reg. dog show, regardless of true quality?* I think they just don't do that well, but can still SAY they're active in the show world. I've seen some 'show dogs' that didn't look all that close to standard at all.


Can they?


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

I have a Richelieu pup and am very happy with him  My little girl is from Stacy (Bellarata). 

Rijes and Sheila are both wonderful too.  If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me.


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

ilovemymaltese said:


> True, I should've re-worded it and say I wouldn't buy a puppy from someone who *didn't* show or have finished champions. Not all show breeders are in it to better the breed.


I like that wording better. :thumbsup: I take showing as one sign of dedication. 



> Really? I didn't know they made a profit. I though dog showing is too exspensive for you NOT to love and better the breed. LOL


It depends, showing is often too expensive to allow someone to make money. But I know of breeders who show very few of the dogs they produce. If you only show a small percentage of your breeding stock and produce a great percentage, absolutely you can make money. Also, if you do no health testing or limited vet care, you can save money that way. Most show breeders re-invest what they do earn from puppy sales back into the dogs, but that is not the case with all of them. 




> Can they?


You can put anything in the ring as long as it is unaltered and has AKC registration. Sometimes all it takes to fool people is a picture taken with a judge. 

If you are like the breeder mentioned above (Hollybelles), you could do it this way. Choose a show, where you think you might be the only entry. Enter your "ok" dog against your other not so nice examples of the breed. You might get some points. If you have enough dogs to play that game well you can even finish some this way. :blink:


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

CloudClan said:


> I like that wording better. :thumbsup: I take showing as one sign of dedication.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for this clarification Carina!


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

And this is where the additional learning can get so difficult for us future/current pet owners. Fell into the "I'm a show breeder" trap before we got Mia. Nicest lady in the world, over the phone, wonderful website reflecting her "show" dogs and Champions, went to her home, showed her a picture of my sweet Kara who had recently passed away. She cried with me . I fell in love with this lady, right from that moment. This lady is never mentioned on here, so no worries that I am referring to anyone that we all have heard of, she is local to me and as never been mentioned on here at all. Her hubby passed away, not sure how long prior to my visit. Maybe that's when things went really downhill for her? Don't know. As I told someone before, when I go to a breeders home, I don't move from the couch, I respect the fact it is their home. Hubby? Well he went outside, I was not sure what he was doing, but he came back in, I had our check book out, ready to write the deposit, and he whispered in my ear "do NOT give a deposit". Huh? Then he took me out back, and I died 10x over. Cried the whole way home. I couldn't even talk to her as I was leaving. I was so disoriented, as I was working off of a list that I thought were AMA breeders , but come to find out this lady was not an AMA breeder at all, nor was my list. That's not to say at all I would not consider an AMA member, I absolutely would, but just thought in my heart, I was going in the right direction.

I only share this not to be negative about anyone, but to PLEASE be so careful. PLEASE. If you find someone you are interested in and are unsure, I would PM the very nice ladies above and I know they can help you out and will be so open and very fair.

I am so sorry to relay a negative experience, on the surface, at least to me, I thought I had all bases covered. I just don't want anyone else to have to fall into the wrong places and experience what we did. It still haunts us.


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## michellerobison (Dec 17, 2009)

3Maltmom said:


> Oh yes, Hollybelle's comes to mind:
> 
> Pet-Abuse.Com - Animal Abuse Case Details: Puppy mill - 230 dogs seized - Franklin, TN (US)
> 
> Homework must be done, whether looking at Show Breeders, or Rescues.


OMG,I read the case,she was relentless ,absolutely sick.:angry: I can't believe how light she got off with all the stuff she continued to do. Poor dogs....
Rylee our littlest rehomer came from a puppy mill to his former owner,sick and filthy. The puppymill was shut down twice and charges filed. Not sure if he set up again or not. 

What's sad is there are people out there who love dogs and think they can breed them because they love puppies and want to let others share that love too....misguided as it is. They just don't realize their hobby is perpetuating a serious problem. :smilie_tischkante:

I'm sure the majority of these are just in it for the supposed money... like Hollybelle,no confusing her w/ a misguided hobbyist. She's a serial dog abuser,absolutely maniacal in her zeal to breed. She didn't even take care of her children. Frightening.:w00t:


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## uniquelovdolce (Mar 10, 2010)

ilovemymaltese said:


> A reputable breeder is simply any breeder that shows.  Good luck searchin'!


 
u see i did NOT know this. I didnt know that they had to show as well. Like i said i learn new things here every day.


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## pinkpixie1588 (Oct 12, 2009)

uniquelovdolce said:


> u see i did NOT know this. I didnt know that they had to show as well. Like i said i learn new things here every day.


Yep, one of the easiest ways to eliminate BYBs and Millers is by finding out if they show or not. Then, out of those that do show, there are those that only dabble in it to manipulate buyers into thinking they are in it for the breed (see above), and those that actually want to contribute to the maintaining the integrity of and bettering the breed. THOSE are the ones you want. :thumbsup:


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## uniquelovdolce (Mar 10, 2010)

Yes i see what you mean. But its amazing on my search for Dolce how many scams there are out there, and look i still managed to get one from a breeder that obviously even though she is a breeder , she is not a reputable one.. goes to show you. 

so for the newbies .. do your hw.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

uniquelovdolce said:


> u see i did NOT know this. I didnt know that they had to show as well. Like i said i learn new things here every day.


IMO, finding out whether a breeder shows is the 1st question to ask when you are searching for a puppy. If a breeder does not show, walk away. If they do, then you can move on to the rest of the questions. 

From there, you must determine whether the particular breeder has a good reputation, can provide references, takes care of his/her dogs, and doesn't over breed for profit, etc.


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

ilovemymaltese said:


> A reputable breeder is simply any breeder that shows.  Good luck searchin'!


 
Did you mean to say this? I'd be correcting this statement to say *"Don't be fooled into thinking that a reputable breeder is simply any breeder that shows."*

MaryH


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

MaryH said:


> Did you mean to say this? I'd be correcting this statement to say *"Don't be fooled into thinking that a reputable breeder is simply any breeder that shows."*
> 
> MaryH


:thumbsup:Oh boy do I agree with this.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

I found nemo said:


> :thumbsup:Oh boy do I agree with this.


Oh I TOTALLY agree!!!!!!!:innocent::innocent::innocent:


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

luvmyfurbaby said:


> Oh I TOTALLY agree!!!!!!!:innocent::innocent::innocent:


:brownbag:


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## Poppy's mommy (Dec 21, 2007)

What about retired show breeders? Is that a red flag too? Even though my Poppy was not a maltese, his breeder had on her website she was retired.


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## bellasmummy (Apr 8, 2009)

Im not much help since im in the UK i dont know of any american breeders really but just wanted to wish you good luck in your search - theres bound to be someone on here who can help


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## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

Poppy's mommy said:


> What about retired show breeders? Is that a red flag too? Even though my Poppy was not a maltese, his breeder had on her website she was retired.


She was retired from showing?  But she was still breeding?

Again, there is some room for nuance and it is important to determine what is personally important to you after you do your homework to understand why certain guidelines are expected from "ethical breeders". 

But for myself, even if a breeder has gotten to the age and stage where they do not feel comfortable showing themselves any longer, I'd like to see them put most of their dogs in the ring even if that means having their dogs shown by a handler. Otherwise, IMHO I would also expect them to be retired from breeding. We have many wonderful "older & wiser" breeders in Maltese who continue to show well past the traditional retirement age. In fact, some of the younger folks I know talk a lot about retirement so that they can devote themselves to their hobby and their passion.


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## Poppy's mommy (Dec 21, 2007)

CloudClan said:


> She was retired from showing?  But she was still breeding?
> 
> Again, there is some room for nuance and it is important to determine what is personally important to you after you do your homework to understand why certain guidelines are expected from "ethical breeders".
> 
> But for myself, even if a breeder has gotten to the age and stage where they do not feel comfortable showing themselves any longer, I'd like to see them put most of their dogs in the ring even if that means having their dogs shown by a handler. Otherwise, IMHO I would also expect them to be retired from breeding. We have many wonderful "older & wiser" breeders in Maltese who continue to show well past the traditional retirement age. In fact, some of the younger folks I know talk a lot about retirement so that they can devote themselves to their hobby and their passion.


Right, I agree with you. I think that was just for advertisement so more people would buy from her and feel comfortable. She had no pictures of her showing in the days she was not retired on her page, but me wanting a puppy so bad trusted her and what others were saying.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

MaryH said:


> Did you mean to say this? I'd be correcting this statement to say *"Don't be fooled into thinking that a reputable breeder is simply any breeder that shows."*
> 
> MaryH


Yes, I'll edit my post, I did correct how I should have said that. 



Poppy's mommy said:


> *What about retired show breeders?* Is that a red flag too? Even though my Poppy was not a maltese, his breeder had on her website she was retired.


Good question. I do know a couple of very reputable breeders that don't show anymore, but their dogs go with handlers. Including Gigi's breeder. So, I guess it depends on their reasoning. Cindy said she was too old to show a dog good. I wouldn't buy a dog from a breeder that didn't show or used to show.


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## maggpi21 (Mar 29, 2010)

You guys are all really helpful and I love coming and looking at the posts. I'm very much ready to have a little fluffy guy in my arms


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## almitra (Apr 24, 2009)

Can't wait to see a new baby in your arms soon, Maggie! Let us know how things go, girl.


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