# Tyler Mortified by Socialization Class



## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

Okay so I know we're supposed to socialize our babies. It's taken us a while since Tyler was 8 months when I got him, then he didn't have all his shots, so no socialization til then, then surgery and diarrhea for two weeks so certainly none then. :blink: In the meantime, when I've taken Tyler out he loves to run up to dogs in our building and on the street no matter how big or small they are. Last night, a place in NYC called Biscuits and Bath had a free puppy socialization hour. I asked if the big dogs are separated (I remember the nightmare story on SM about a big dog getting out of big dog area and attacking a small one) and they said they're separated. So we get there last night and there are some little Yorkies there which was good, but then a lab and some rather larger furry dogs. They were going at each other like crazy. I put Tyler down near me and when the gang started coming his way he freaked!! He was terrified and in fact went to the back of my chair, and stood up on his hind legs hiding under my coat as if to say "No dog here. See I'm two-legged, not 4-legged like you crazies" :HistericalSmiley: I did put him up on my lap and let him observes and some of the dogs came over. He was really afraid. I also didn't love that the separation was a rather flimsy gate which they only put up when a STANDARD POODLE came in. Not a pup certainly and don't know what he was doing there. The girl "in charge" and I use the term loosely since most of the parents where breaking up really intense fights, says it's good that I had him on my lap and I should come back next week. So am I traumatizing him or is this very normal, and do I go back? It also bothered me somewhat that the dogs did pee and poop a lot and there was a mop and spray used...wonder how much that mop is washed, but that's another issue. :bysmilie: A couple of the other parents said that their dogs were the same way the first time.
Tyler plays like crazy with my neighbors bichon and can't wait to see her and the same with many other dogs one on one or sometimes two to one. Really not sure what to do. :confused1:


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Sounds to me like Tyler is already a pretty social guy. My idea of socialization is exposing my puppies/dogs to the world, taking them out and about so that they get used to car rides, noises, sights, sounds, people, and other animals, all in an effort to prevent my dogs from becoming nervous, shaky, shy scardey-<strike>cats</strike> dogs. Tyler could probably do a better job teaching the class than the person who was "in charge". Susan, just keep doing what you've been doing, taking him places, meeting the neighbors and playing with their dogs, etc.

MaryH


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

The fatal error in going to events like this is that socialization is based upon having POSITIVE esperiences. Being run up upon by multiple dogs in a weird place is not that at all. It is counterproductive. This is why I do not recommend puppy classes that have free-for-all play time. Sign up for a basic obedience class where the dogs must be kept under control at all times. This is the place for your dog to learn that it is okay to be around other dogs who are well behaved. There is a thread on socialization pinned on this board. Remember POSITIVE!


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Hey Sue, I agree with Jackie. We used to attend that exact class. Monday nights, right? Anyway, we don't go anymore. The instructors are not as cautious as they should be about large dogs jumping over that flimsy gate. One of the instructors actually has a dog she brings from time to time that terrorizes the small ones. I don't get these NY doggy play groups. I think these free for all every dog charges the new little dog scenario set Casanova back instead of helped him. We made much better progress by letting him have one-on-one positive play experiences with other small Maltese.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Keep in mind it is important for your small dog to have positive experieces with well-behaved adult large dogs. Making a point to socialize with dogs of all sizes (and that means being near that dog and having a positive experience, NOT having free for all play with that dog) will go a long way to prevent reactive behavior to other dogs.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

QUOTE (JMM @ Dec 8 2009, 01:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=859713


> Keep in mind it is important for your small dog to have positive experieces with well-behaved adult large dogs. Making a point to socialize with dogs of all sizes (and that means being near that dog and having a positive experience, NOT having free for all play with that dog) will go a long way to prevent reactive behavior to other dogs.[/B]


That is a great point. We are working our way up in size.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

:ThankYou: Jackie, Mary and Sophia -- Great advice. I felt in my gut that it wasn't a good thing. My son grew up being afraid of dogs because we used to live in a building where there was a Great Dane on the floor and the woman would let him run home off leash out of the elevator. The dog, Murray, was very friendly but he would see someone in the hall and charge towards them to jump on them. My son was only a toddler and it was really terrifying. So for many years my son was afraid...I think still is of some dogs. All I could think of was that I didn't want that to happen to Tyler (BTW, DS's begrudgingly being won over by Tyler though calls himself #3 - following Tyler and my DH. I remind him he'll always be #1 to me, unless he doesn't call home from college--I think he's hovering at around #15 in that category.):smrofl: 

Jackie, luckily Tyler is really friendly and unintimidated by large dogs. Will go right over to them and doesn't mind them sniffing him, etc I hope last night doesn't change that. I will keep doing what I'm doing...playdates with dogs we know, lots of exposure to sounds and sights. I walk him in the neighborhood and park, I've taken him into the subway and on busses and he's as calm as can be, gone food shopping with him in his bag and even took him to a restaurant. He's also a dream in the car...no car sickness. I will look into obedience classes though...I have your trainer contact posts to help me find someone certified. Thanks so much !!!!


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## ckim111 (Dec 17, 2008)

Please stop taking Tyler to biscuits and bath socialization. I tried taking Leah there 3 times - all of which were nothing but negative experiences. I honestly have no idea if it's due to the fact that the sessions are free, but there are way too many irresponsible dog owners there. First time there, a English Bulldog named Tonka charged through the gate, and ran over Leah. The other two times were not much better. If you want to take him to socialization classes, Andrea Arden sessions are much better.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

QUOTE (ckim111 @ Dec 8 2009, 03:06 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=859756


> Please stop taking Tyler to biscuits and bath socialization. I tried taking Leah there 3 times - all of which were nothing but negative experiences. I honestly have no idea if it's due to the fact that the sessions are free, but there are way too many irresponsible dog owners there. First time there, a English Bulldog named Tonka charged through the gate, and ran over Leah. The other two times were not much better. If you want to take him to socialization classes, Andrea Arden sessions are much better.[/B]


I know. I was shocked at the behavior that wasn't broken up...lots of tooth baring and growling. Thought that's a bad sign...why at a puppy socialization gathering. Thanks for the advice and referral. Will look into her. B&B called me today to see how I liked it. I was very candid about what a negative experience it was.


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## Terry36 (Jan 21, 2009)

Awe Kodi would be terrorized as well. She cowers from my friends aggressive Maltese who's 8 months.


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## dex'smom (Jan 11, 2009)

there is a monthly maltese meetup at happy paws on lafayette st- i did take dex a couple of times.. he liked it. and i liked it there were about 12 maltese there , quite manageable...better space that bisquits and baths too.

there is one this sun @ 2.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

QUOTE (dex'smom @ Dec 8 2009, 10:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=859933


> there is a monthly maltese meetup at happy paws on lafayette st- i did take dex a couple of times.. he liked it. and i liked it there were about 12 maltese there , quite manageable...better space that bisquits and baths too.
> 
> there is one this sun @ 2.[/B]


Thanks. I joined the NYC Meetup and get e-mails. Isn't this the Holiday party weekend for it? It looks like we're going to Vermont for the weekend so Tyler will be frolicking with moose instead. :bysmilie: Hope to make it another weekend to the meetup.  Would love for Tyler to meet Dex.


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (Snowbody @ Dec 8 2009, 11:20 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=859650


> Okay so I know we're supposed to socialize our babies. It's taken us a while since Tyler was 8 months when I got him, then he didn't have all his shots, so no socialization til then, then surgery and diarrhea for two weeks so certainly none then. :blink: In the meantime, when I've taken Tyler out he loves to run up to dogs in our building and on the street no matter how big or small they are. Last night, a place in NYC called Biscuits and Bath had a free puppy socialization hour. I asked if the big dogs are separated (I remember the nightmare story on SM about a big dog getting out of big dog area and attacking a small one) and they said they're separated. So we get there last night and there are some little Yorkies there which was good, but then a lab and some rather larger furry dogs. They were going at each other like crazy. I put Tyler down near me and when the gang started coming his way he freaked!! *He was terrified and in fact went to the back of my chair, and stood up on his hind legs hiding under my coat as if to say "No dog here. See I'm two-legged, not 4-legged like you crazies" :HistericalSmiley: *I did put him up on my lap and let him observes and some of the dogs came over. He was really afraid. I also didn't love that the separation was a rather flimsy gate which they only put up when a STANDARD POODLE came in. Not a pup certainly and don't know what he was doing there. The girl "in charge" and I use the term loosely since most of the parents where breaking up really intense fights, says it's good that I had him on my lap and I should come back next week. So am I traumatizing him or is this very normal, and do I go back? *It also bothered me somewhat that the dogs did pee and poop a lot and there was a mop and spray used...wonder how much that mop is washed, but that's another issue. :bysmilie: A couple of the other parents said that their dogs were the same way the first time.*
> Tyler plays like crazy with my neighbors bichon and can't wait to see her and the same with many other dogs one on one or sometimes two to one. Really not sure what to do. :confused1:[/B]


Are you sure are not talking about Gigi here. LOL We were the EXACT same way. We took her to tiny yorkie meetups, but there were like 20 dogs all running up to her at once. I wouldv'e hated that if it were myself, but I had *always* "heard", that I should let her "deal with it" on her own. Everybody assured me that their dogs were the same way the first time. The primary purpose of those little meetups are to "socialize", and I see a new young dog every meetup scared to death of the others. I had to pull a 7 month old puppy out from under a chair when he was getting cornered and terrorized by three other tiny yorkies. He was laying down so flat under the chair, kind of like he wanted to disappear into the floor. I had also saw where the poor thing had peed while he was under out of fear. Poor thing. I bought him over to his parents as one was watching him, but I guess he just thought the pup was suppossed to deal with it himself. While this was going on, Gigi was relaxing on my mother's lap, she's happy their, as she is not a "four legged, but a two legged" LOL Or she would like to be! The parents at the meetups did not know how to be in charge of their own pets! The yorkies are always fighting and yapping! Yorkies are SO yappy. LOL My scaredy Gigi is the only sane one there. Haha

It all makes sense now. Gigi IS a highly socialized dog, but most of her experiences WERE NOT positive ones. Gigi's been up and down the country. But I still have a nervous, shaky dog everytime we step out of the house. Come to think of it, all experiences when we first had her weren't good ones. For example, when we went to see Santa last year in the mall, it was Gigi's second outing with us(I got her 5.5 months old), a 100 lb lab that was standing behind us lounged at Gigi as soon as we put her down, pulling his owner down too. And we had to yankered her back with the leash really fast, otherwise he would've stepped on her and injure her. :bysmilie: Then she was held the whole hour of waiting. (This year we took her stroller, thank goodness, all is well in the stroller! lol) 

Gigi's experiences in the last 4 months have been positive. We now take her out a couple days a week, only in her stroller. I have the stroller zipped up, so nobody can randomly come up to her and start petting her, but she can still experiennce being around others positively. I think she's enjoying it. Oh and no more growling at strangers! 

Instead of telling new dog owners to make sure they socialize their pups, they should tell them to make sure their experiences are positive. I'm going to let all the cowarding pup owners know that at the meetup.


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

Poor Tyler!

Good post Briana! you're so right. Bisou is _exactly _the same way.

I had a training session last week with her and her trainer told me, to keep taking her out places but not to let Bisou be petted by (especially untrained) people right now. People can give her treats but not to let them pet her yet because she's freezes up in shaky, scaredy cat fear. He said it was the equivalent of dangling someone over a balcony..they are so scared that they can't move. So for the immediate future not to 'push' new introductions by petting. She needs to associate new people with treats (as she is very treat motivated) and later on if she can be petted by people. Probably 15% of the time she doesn't mind but the remaining 85% she's shaking in her boots. Now I understand how handy a stroller can be!

That bulldog Tonka scaring poor Leah- my goodness. He would have scared me too.


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## princessre (Dec 23, 2008)

Good points, all!

And the other thing I didn't realize as a new puppy owner in NYC is that it's not rude or weird not to have your dog interact with every dog you walk by. Especially if you have a dog that is scared of other dogs. In fact, you are to proactively distract them by scouting out other dogs way in advance and feeding treats until the other dog passes. If I had known this little fact about my "scaredy dog," I would not have facilitated encounters with other dogs that he was not socialized enough to handle.


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## Snowbody (Jan 3, 2009)

I think that Tyler was very uncomfortable with the environment as well as the dogs at the puppy meeting. It is funny that he's so outgoing with the dogs he sees in the neighborhood on the street. Will go right for the biggest ones and not care if they come to him. Of course I'm the one scoping the dogs out and seeing who looks naughty and nice and skirting some encounters. And with people, scared doesn't describe him. In fact he loves going to the garbage with me. LOL. We have a trash room and compactor on our floor and I'm at one end of the hallway. He loves to run down the hall and waits outside that compactor door for me. Today I'm looking for him and he's gone the other way and is lying down on the carpet, splayed with his back legs out (his favorite "pet me I love you stance" being petted by a neighbor. He's such a *not* shaky dog that he'll run to people easily and loves being pet (again I pick and choose who we get near). Four people on my floor have already volunteered to pet sit.  I will look for an obedience class though to get some things underway. His walking is very varied from perfect to stopping or darting across me. Thanks for all the input.


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

if you go the Maltese meet up or a new class, will you report how it was? I'd love to hear about it.


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## almitra (Apr 24, 2009)

I wish there were such a thing here where I live (Maltese meet up), but there aren't enough Malts around this area for it....((sigh)) :mellow:


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 11, 2006)

This past Spring/early Summer, Lacie was having a lot of problems because Jerry was ill and no longer home with her all day. I think most of you will remember this.

Anyway, one of the suggestions was to take Lacie and Tilly to Doggie Day Care once or twice a week. Lacie is well socialized, imo, and does not usually have problems interacting with new people and most new dogs.

I made certain that the Doggie Day Care would include only SMALL dogs. The day that Lacie and Tilly went, there we a couple of Yorkies, a couple of Shih Tzus, a mini Dacshund, and 2 toy poodles. It was at the PetSmart Pet Hotel across from my office. So at lunch time I went to watch them play as there is a large glass wall that you can watch them through. Both Lacie and Tilly were UNDER the plastic play slide and weren't playing with any of the other puppies. When another dog would approach them, Lacie and/or Tilly would be polite, but wouldn't play. At the end of the day I was provided with a report card of how they did during the day. It didn't seem as if they had any fun at all, and yet, other pet parents told me how their furbutts look forward to coming to doggie day care.

Lacie and Tilly really love our playdates with the dogs in our neighborhood -- they especially love the Bichon and the Yorkie.

Anyway, we did not go back to doggie day care, so I don't know if they would have eventually had a good time or not. Instead, we developed our own neighbor play dates for about 4-6 dogs per play date. These are dogs that are similar in size and now know one another well. Not too many dogs to overwhelm each other. And the owners have a nice long visit with cofffee or wine (depending on time of day) while the furbutts play. We take turns at each others houses, but the girls always know the houses because we visit them at least once a week. This seems to work out well and is a lot of fun for all of us. When the girls get tired of playing, they will come and sit on my lap or next to me. I can tell if they just want a few minutes rest or if they're through for the day in which case we go home.

I've gotten to know several neighbors that I would never have known, except to say "hi" because of the play dates. It's really be a great success. But I live in a small gated community with about 60 houses on 3 cul-de-sacs and 1 main road. We can easily walk the furbutts to each others homes which is nice as each furbutt has already gotten a little exercise BEFORE they get together for the play date.

I enjoy this so much more than the "forced" classes. For one thing, I know that all of these furbutts have been immunized, are well groomed and well taken care of. I don't have to worry about size or about whether or not the pet parents will allow their furbaby to be unruly with my girls. I also know that the facilities (houses) are clean and that I don't have to worry about strange diseases, germs, fleas, ticks, etc. that might infect my two. 

If anyone has some dogs in your apartment complex or neighborhood, I would highly suggest trying something like this. 

Remember, my two go everywhere with me whenever they can -- so they're not afraid of strange places and they enjoy and look forward to seeing their "friends". Heck, when we go for neighborhood walks, we'll be in front of Tommy, the Bichon's, house and the girls will want to go to the door to play, etc. It's hard for me to explain that TODAY isn't their playdate. LOL


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## Delilahs Mommy (Nov 22, 2009)

Have you checked on meetup.com for any local area doggie meet ups? I think that may be a good way to get out and meet other dogs and people too!!


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## ilovemymaltese (Oct 9, 2008)

QUOTE (dixiepalooza @ Dec 11 2009, 08:37 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=860885


> Have you checked on meetup.com for any local area doggie meet ups? I think that may be a good way to get out and meet other dogs and people too!![/B]


See my post in this thread. Doggie meetups are no better.


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## Johita (Jul 10, 2009)

I heard about this small dog playgroup in the lower east side of Manhattan. Animal Haven hosts it every Saturday from 1:45-2:45pm and I've heard good things about it so far. A dog trainer from Andrea Arden is also there to oversee everything so it's worth a shot. I have yet to take Aolani there as I was waiting to get him neutered. 

http://support.animalhavenshelter.org/site...l&id=100273

I've tried to socialize Aolani by taking him to several places with different environments, dogs and people, but he's still quite afraid of other dogs and doesn't trust most people. I don't know why, but hopefully he is still young enough for me to be able to correct this. I always tell people esp. kids to let him come to them (not to put there hands in his face or anything because he has snapped at a couple of people I know, so better safe than sorry). He attended puppy class and passed (he learns commands quite well), but he just didn't want anything to do with the other pup in the class. Well, I'll just keep trying. I will be putting a call in to the Andrea Arden training facility to see if there are any classes he can attend there.


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