# Ok I have A Question .



## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

Now, I am on this forum 4 years and I have to ask is this breeder a reputable one? I mean it sure looks like it, but wanted to make sure.
I always felt I would know who is and who is not reputable and I couldn't even see myself posting this question. 
Thanks for any replies.

Andrea 
http://www.acappellamaltese.com/Home_Page.html


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## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

Here is a recent thread which may answer some questions you have!
http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/56-breeders/104274-capella.html


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## pinkpixie1588 (Oct 12, 2009)

I haven't read the other thread yet, but I did notice that of her breeding dogs, only the one male is a champion. None of the females seem to be champions and under the "our champions" page is her stud and one other dog that she sold. So, as far as showing goes, I'm not sure how active she is. 

However, I do like that she posts the pedigrees. Her contract as far as limited AKC reg and 1 year genetic health guarantee seem on the up and up. Her prices seem quite low, though. Maybe because the pups will only have the CH on one side...not sure, though. 

The pictures are really nice, but I've learned not to focus only on that.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

bellaratamaltese said:


> Here is a recent thread which may answer some questions you have!
> http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/56-breeders/104274-capella.html


Thanks Stacy so much.


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

I don't know how I missed that thread..:blink:


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

I found nemo said:


> I don't know how I missed that thread..:blink:


Because you are getting OLD.:innocent::innocent::innocent:


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

luvmyfurbaby said:


> Because you are getting OLD.:innocent::innocent::innocent:


:w00t: :smtease:


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## Morkie4 (Oct 13, 2006)

I found nemo said:


> :w00t: :smtease:


 Well, you ARE ya know! :wub:


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

pinkpixie1588 said:


> I haven't read the other thread yet, but I did notice that of her breeding dogs, only the one male is a champion. None of the females seem to be champions and under the "our champions" page is her stud and one other dog that she sold. So, as far as showing goes, I'm not sure how active she is.
> 
> However, I do like that she posts the pedigrees. Her contract as far as limited AKC reg and 1 year genetic health guarantee seem on the up and up. *Her prices seem quite low, though*. Maybe because the pups will only have the CH on one side...not sure, though.
> 
> The pictures are really nice, but I've learned not to focus only on that.


 I have a question for people. When a breeder has lower prices, does that affect how you think about them as a breeder? Do you feel that the quality of their dogs isn't as good as a breeder with higher prices?


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## I found nemo (Feb 23, 2006)

Tina said:


> I have a question for people. When a breeder has lower prices, does that affect how you think about them as a breeder? Do you feel that the quality of their dogs isn't as good as a breeder with higher prices?


Tina,
That has nothing to do with why I asked if she was reputable, in no way.
No, I don't think prices have a thing to do with it, at least for me. I think you have gorgeous babies and your prices are fair and worth it for the beautiful babies you have.
Again, please don't think that is why I posted this question.
Andrea


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## MandyMc65 (Jun 14, 2007)

Tina said:


> I have a question for people. When a breeder has lower prices, does that affect how you think about them as a breeder? Do you feel that the quality of their dogs isn't as good as a breeder with higher prices?


For me it depends on how low. If the price is around $200-$600 then I would question the quality a bit more. Same goes for a price of $3000+.

But, that does not mean if they are $1000-$2500 I don't question and just assume they are reputable. 

When I look at websites I don't necessarily even look at the prices, most of the time I don't look at the puppies page until I've looked at the Our Boys/Girls/Champions/Hopefuls/etc... first.


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## luvmyfurbaby (Feb 11, 2007)

Tina said:


> I have a question for people. When a breeder has lower prices, does that affect how you think about them as a breeder? Do you feel that the quality of their dogs isn't as good as a breeder with higher prices?


No not really especially now a days. It's hard to place pups during this economy. If the breeder is a legitimate breeder meaning they look after the welfare of their animals, breeds to standard and not to make a quick buck and you know EXACTLY what I mean Tina then the price difference doesn't effect me.

I met this lady at the Amish bakery this past week. She ran to my car when she saw me leaving and questioned me about Mia. She had a little one and was looking to add another one. She mentioned she had contacted a breeder in the West Palm area and her name was Bonnie. I chuckled and added her last name. She was amazed I knew who she had spoken to. She loved Bonnie but couldn't afford her prices. So I told her that there were a few breeders that had pups more in her price range I gave her a business card and told her to email me. 

I went on to educate her about BYB's with lower prices and the horrid puppy mills & pet stores. I also told her that Mia was adorable and little but she had and will eventually have more health issues. I told her not to base her whole decision on price even though Mia cost me $1,200 to purchase she has and will cost me a lot more in the future with her health issues. 

I told her what I look for first (of course behind the cute face of the pup) is trust in the breeder and communication. Once I feel comfortable with the breeder I research on how healthy their pups are and how many litters they have bred and honest and real recommendations from past owners. Hopefully she will email me and not go the BYB route. 

Back to your original question price should not be the deciding factor.


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## Hunter's Mom (Dec 8, 2008)

I personally have never purchased a dog from a breeder but a lower price wouldn't deter me or make me thnk they were not a reputable breeder. I think what would deter me would be (1) the opinions of my trusted friends here on SM and (2) my own sense of whether the breeder and I (and the dog) were a good fit.


ETA: in the practice of full disclosure and honesty; a big deterance for me will be how many litters are produced in a year by a breeder. When and if I can ever get a puppy from a breeder, I want to ensure that the person I purchase from is working to better the breed and is careful in their breeding and evaluation of pups - not just producing litters to supply the demand. I'm very concerned with breeders who breed multiple litters a year when there are so many animals put to sleep each day and in shelters and rescues and retirees will eventually needs homes as well.


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## Poppy's mommy (Dec 21, 2007)

From my experience no. I don't think of breeders by the prices anymore. I think of breeders by how healthy the puppies are, parents etc. Prices really don't prove anything to me.


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

I found nemo said:


> Tina,
> That has nothing to do with why I asked if she was reputable, in no way.
> No, I don't think prices have a thing to do with it, at least for me. I think you have gorgeous babies and your prices are fair and worth it for the beautiful babies you have.
> Again, please don't think that is why I posted this question.
> Andrea


Andrea,
I didn't think you did. You brought it up and it made me wonder. I have had people interested in a puppy and find out it is priced lower, then find out later they bought a pup of the same quality at twice the price. I am seeing this more than before, so I was just wondering what everyone's thought's on it were.


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

I imagine part of the public perception is the idea of "you get what you pay for"...I've had lovely dogs for relatively high prices and lovely dogs for less. Just depends on what you are looking for.


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## Purple-peep (May 14, 2009)

Tina, I think you should be charging more for your fluffs.


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## LJSquishy (Feb 27, 2008)

Tina, I will be completely honest and say that if I see an _extremely_ low price for a puppy (of around 12wks), it does make me question why. Now, this is not to say that I wouldn't inquire further about the puppy and/or price, but I would probably wonder in my head if maybe the puppy was not close to the breed standard, or if there were some specific explanation of the lower price, etc. Seeing a very low price would make me look closer at the pedigrees & other areas of a breeder's website because I would initially be more weary.

I agree with Anne that you should charge a little bit more for some of your puppies. You have worked hard at showing, and I know you try and make healthy Maltese available to everyone with different price ranges, but I think you have earned the right to charge a little more if you so choose.

On the other hand, if I see a puppy with a price of $4000, I will look elsewhere because I think that is on the other extreme -- overcharging -- and I know some breeders have this God-complex thinking they are superior in the Maltese world, and I wouldn't give them the time of day. This is only my opinion.


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## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

Thank you for your input. My vet told me several years ago to charge a certain amount, because if you didn't they wouldn't take care of it. I just know how hard it can be to come up with the $ to get a really nice Maltese. When I am buying a Maltese I am paying higher prices for breeding I think will improve on my breeding program. For me to charge those prices, I feel like I am taking something away from someone by asking prices that are high. Even with all the work invested in my breeding program. 

I have a puppy inquiry I am working with now. Wants a show puppy. Wants it for pet price. I tell them the price for full registration and show price. Not that much more than pet price. He agrees with the price of the puppy. Now, he wants me to ship him the puppy for free. That in total cost to me is $290.00. A crate is $25.00 (walmart), pad to prevent banging around $10.00, veterinarian appointment and health certificate $60.00, airline ticket $160.00, (depending on which airline you use), and gas to and from the airport is around $30.00. Toll booth charges $6.00. I only charge $250.00 for doing it. I am going "what"? I am already giving him a break of $500 for the puppy. He will tell me no and buy a puppy from someone else for $2000.00. <Big Sigh> <shaking head> 
I want him in a good home, but ...............


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## allheart (Oct 3, 2008)

Tina said:


> Thank you for your input. My vet told me several years ago to charge a certain amount, because if you didn't they wouldn't take care of it. I just know how hard it can be to come up with the $ to get a really nice Maltese. When I am buying a Maltese I am paying higher prices for breeding I think will improve on my breeding program. For me to charge those prices, I feel like I am taking something away from someone by asking prices that are high. Even with all the work invested in my breeding program.
> 
> I have a puppy inquiry I am working with now. Wants a show puppy. Wants it for pet price. I tell them the price for full registration and show price. Not that much more than pet price. He agrees with the price of the puppy. Now, he wants me to ship him the puppy for free. That in total cost to me is $290.00. A crate is $25.00 (walmart), pad to prevent banging around $10.00, veterinarian appointment and health certificate $60.00, airline ticket $160.00, (depending on which airline you use), and gas to and from the airport is around $30.00. Toll booth charges $6.00. I only charge $250.00 for doing it. I am going "what"? I am already giving him a break of $500 for the puppy. He will tell me no and buy a puppy from someone else for $2000.00. <Big Sigh> <shaking head>
> I want him in a good home, but ...............


Tina, you are so kind hearted and I can tell you only want what is best for the babies. No, price would never be a deciding factor for me. Not even initially in the equation. 

As far as this specific situation that you are dealing with, boy that is really a tough one. In all probability the man can more then afford the cost of the shipping. Some folks, now that is just some, will want to bargain for anything and everything. A question would cross my mind with him, not that he could afford to take care of the little guy, but will he try to bargain for the cost of the pups care? I've actually see some folks in "real life" do this, they will "shop" for the lowest costing vet, instead of doing research for the best vet that specializes in small breeds, which in fact, their prices may be very reasonable. Asking you to ship the baby for free, I think is very unreasonable of him and really unfair of him to ask that of you.


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## maltluvr (Dec 8, 2006)

Tina said:


> Thank you for your input. My vet told me several years ago to charge a certain amount, because if you didn't they wouldn't take care of it. I just know how hard it can be to come up with the $ to get a really nice Maltese. When I am buying a Maltese I am paying higher prices for breeding I think will improve on my breeding program. For me to charge those prices, I feel like I am taking something away from someone by asking prices that are high. Even with all the work invested in my breeding program.
> 
> I have a puppy inquiry I am working with now. Wants a show puppy. Wants it for pet price. I tell them the price for full registration and show price. Not that much more than pet price. He agrees with the price of the puppy. Now, he wants me to ship him the puppy for free. That in total cost to me is $290.00. A crate is $25.00 (walmart), pad to prevent banging around $10.00, veterinarian appointment and health certificate $60.00, airline ticket $160.00, (depending on which airline you use), and gas to and from the airport is around $30.00. Toll booth charges $6.00. I only charge $250.00 for doing it. I am going "what"? I am already giving him a break of $500 for the puppy. He will tell me no and buy a puppy from someone else for $2000.00. <Big Sigh> <shaking head>
> I want him in a good home, but ...............


 
Tina
I do not consider someone who wants a show quality Maltese at a pet price to be someone who has a "good home" for a dog. THis sounds like someone who is a "corner cutter" , and will surely do the same in caring for a dog. Write this off as a person who does not deserve one of your babies !!! As for shipping free, ridiculous. I can almost guarantee you would never stop getting complaints from someone like this if you sell them a puppy.


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## iheartbisou (Feb 13, 2007)

maltluvr said:


> Tina
> I do not consider someone who wants a show quality Maltese at a pet price to be someone who has a "good home" for a dog. THis sounds like someone who is a "corner cutter" , and will surely do the same in caring for a dog. Write this off as a person who does not deserve one of your babies !!! As for shipping free, ridiculous. I can almost guarantee you would never stop getting complaints from someone like this if you sell them a puppy.


I agree..._maybe_ this person wouldn't actually cut corners in caring for the dog or have non stop complaints in the future..but to try to not pay for the shipping (somebody has to!) and then want a show dog for a pet price-that's just in bad taste, I think. There's a saying that people in Hades want ice water.

PS- I also agree with a lot of the other posters, I don't think the price of the puppy determines the quality of the breeder themselves, unless they are on the extreme sides of the average price range (either way too low or way too high). I would probably seriously question the breeder with prices like $200 and also one for $5000 (pet not show).


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## mi_ku_5 (Jun 2, 2008)

1) PURCHASE PRICE HAS NOTHING TO DO W/ HOW WELL A PUPPY WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF!!!!!! I get so sick of hearing that and I think it's just an excuse for certain people to line their pockets. (Many times it's irresponsible owners who are selling their pet or it's oops puppies/kittens on Craigslist.) I also find it insulting as someone who paid a $50 adoption fee for my Maltese (when you consider that covered his shots, worming, neuter and that he was cryptorchid, that's an amazing deal). To prove my point I recently saw an ad for a 6 month old "mini saint berdoodle" who was purchased for $1350. The person only had him about 4 months before she decided to sell him to the highest bidder on CL. A member of another forum recently adopted a young silver standard Poodle complete w/ his pedigree (which showed he was sired by a champion) from her local kill shelter. While I don't know for sure, I'm guessing the owners paid a lot for a CH sired puppy and to ship him half way across the country. (The was in a kill shelter in FL and the breeder is in the midwest.) Bailey has been w/ me for 10 years and my mom's dog, who came from the same shelter and had the same adoption fee, has been w/ her for 13 years. IMO, responsible breeders should back up their prices w/ investments in show costs, health testing, etc, not "I want them to go to good homes." If they want good homes, they need to get their hands dirty and screen potential buyers.

2) I don't think there is one single factor that should/would affect how you look at breeder and people often forget that. The fact that someone does show shouldn't be the deciding factor on wheter a breeder is reputable any more than a low price or the fact that the "kennel" has two breeds should send a buyer running. How low the price is would be a factor to me, I don't see how someone could breed responsibly and charge a couple hundred bucks for their puppies unless they are independently wealthy. Geography (cost of living and showing) plays a role in price too. I find it more off putting when someone charges a lot for their dogs when they aren't investing much in their breeding program. 

3) Tina, I think that guy has a lot of nerve, MHO. It's my understanding that your puppy prices are at the lower end of the spectrum for well bred puppies to begin with. Yet he wants show quality for pet price and free shipping. I just find that rude and it sounds like he is taking advantage. I'm sure there are people out there who would love to have one of your pups and appreciate what you do, instead of treating you like a fleamarket vendor. If I were looking for another Malt, I'd be one of them!


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## MaryH (Mar 7, 2006)

Tina said:


> Thank you for your input. My vet told me several years ago to charge a certain amount, because if you didn't they wouldn't take care of it. I just know how hard it can be to come up with the $ to get a really nice Maltese. When I am buying a Maltese I am paying higher prices for breeding I think will improve on my breeding program. For me to charge those prices, I feel like I am taking something away from someone by asking prices that are high. Even with all the work invested in my breeding program.
> 
> I have a puppy inquiry I am working with now. Wants a show puppy. Wants it for pet price. I tell them the price for full registration and show price. Not that much more than pet price. He agrees with the price of the puppy. Now, he wants me to ship him the puppy for free. That in total cost to me is $290.00. A crate is $25.00 (walmart), pad to prevent banging around $10.00, veterinarian appointment and health certificate $60.00, airline ticket $160.00, (depending on which airline you use), and gas to and from the airport is around $30.00. Toll booth charges $6.00. I only charge $250.00 for doing it. I am going "what"? I am already giving him a break of $500 for the puppy. He will tell me no and buy a puppy from someone else for $2000.00. <Big Sigh> <shaking head>
> I want him in a good home, but ...............


Tina, when I see a puppy for sale in my area for well below or well above the average price around here it does raise questions for me. I absolutely do not believe in the "you get what you pay for" way of thinking but I do wonder how someone can cover their costs when charging so little or wonder if they are just trying to line their pockets when charging so much. If I were willing to sell my puppies out of area (NYC, Philly, etc.) I could easily ask for and get higher prices but my preference is that my puppies stay local and go to people who will come back to me in a heartbeat if they have questions or problems. If that means a lower sale price then so be it. I feel that my puppy price is fair, taking into consideration my veterinary expenses and my breeding program expenses (costs of acquiring worthy foundation dogs, stud service, showing expenses). That is not to say I expect my puppy sales to cover these expenses because when I chose to go this route I felt it was my financial responsibility alone to insure that my dogs are more than adequately provided for ... but the reality is that unless a breeder has a limitless supply of money he/she should be asking for and getting a fair price for puppies. Otherwise, he/she could not possibly continue in a responsible, ethical manner without going bankrupt.

As for your potential "show puppy" situation, I would politely walk away. You have invested too much and deserve to be fairly compensated, not taken advantage of.


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## pinkpixie1588 (Oct 12, 2009)

Just in response to your first question, since I may have been the one to open this can of worms in this thread, I think after having researched many, many breeders, and seeing that there tends to be a range that ALMOST all fall into, when one does not fall into that range, it makes me wonder how they can afford that. I've read time and time again why maltese are so expensive from reputable breeders (costs of feeding premium foods, purchase price of breeding adults, finishing the adults, vet costs, etc), and when someone is able to charge much less, I have to ask, what corners might they be cutting to get to those prices? 

None of this was in any way directed at you, just my take on things. I just compare to some other non-fixed price items. Take a certain specialty item that takes a lot of expertise to create, then imagine that item, at most other shops, costs $100. One shop charges only $20. Wouldn't you wonder how they can make it so cheap at the same quality and why they would take that hit when so much has gone into creating them? Without a doubt, someone will want to jump on me for using an inanimate example, but really, it's just to illustrate a point. 

From everything I've heard, Tina, you breed beautiful dogs and just want the best for them. I hope I haven't offended you in any way, but these are just questions that came up in my mind during my recent puppy search.


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## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

There is one area I don't mind breeders asking a high price, and this is for a show dog. But what I mind is breeders asking a high price for a pet dog. 

As for your particular case Tina, I would not sell to that guy. I would want to know a lot more about that guy before giving him a brake.


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## yorkieville (May 9, 2005)

Tina said:


> Thank you for your input. My vet told me several years ago to charge a certain amount, because if you didn't they wouldn't take care of it. I just know how hard it can be to come up with the $ to get a really nice Maltese. When I am buying a Maltese I am paying higher prices for breeding I think will improve on my breeding program. For me to charge those prices, I feel like I am taking something away from someone by asking prices that are high. Even with all the work invested in my breeding program.
> 
> I have a puppy inquiry I am working with now. Wants a show puppy. Wants it for pet price. I tell them the price for full registration and show price. Not that much more than pet price. He agrees with the price of the puppy. Now, he wants me to ship him the puppy for free. That in total cost to me is $290.00. A crate is $25.00 (walmart), pad to prevent banging around $10.00, veterinarian appointment and health certificate $60.00, airline ticket $160.00, (depending on which airline you use), and gas to and from the airport is around $30.00. Toll booth charges $6.00. I only charge $250.00 for doing it. I am going "what"? I am already giving him a break of $500 for the puppy. He will tell me no and buy a puppy from someone else for $2000.00. <Big Sigh> <shaking head>
> I want him in a good home, but ...............


Tina,

This guy doesn't sound like a "good home" for one of your babies. A Show quality puppy for a Pet price, and he still wants you to ship him the puppy for free???? Let him go to someone else and pay $2,000. for a puppy.

The nerve of some people!!!

Wow, if your puppy were going to be around 4#s full grown, I would gladly snatch him up for a pet price and pay for the shipping, willingly and happily!

Sheila


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## yorkieville (May 9, 2005)

mi_ku_5 said:


> 1) PURCHASE PRICE HAS NOTHING TO DO W/ HOW WELL A PUPPY WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF!!!!!! I get so sick of hearing that and I think it's just an excuse for certain people to line their pockets. (Many times it's irresponsible owners who are selling their pet or it's oops puppies/kittens on Craigslist.) I also find it insulting as someone who paid a $50 adoption fee for my Maltese (when you consider that covered his shots, worming, neuter and that he was cryptorchid, that's an amazing deal). To prove my point I recently saw an ad for a 6 month old "mini saint berdoodle" who was purchased for $1350. The person only had him about 4 months before she decided to sell him to the highest bidder on CL. A member of another forum recently adopted a young silver standard Poodle complete w/ his pedigree (which showed he was sired by a champion) from her local kill shelter. While I don't know for sure, I'm guessing the owners paid a lot for a CH sired puppy and to ship him half way across the country. (The was in a kill shelter in FL and the breeder is in the midwest.) Bailey has been w/ me for 10 years and my mom's dog, who came from the same shelter and had the same adoption fee, has been w/ her for 13 years. IMO, responsible breeders should back up their prices w/ investments in show costs, health testing, etc, not "I want them to go to good homes." If they want good homes, they need to get their hands dirty and screen potential buyers.
> 
> 2) I don't think there is one single factor that should/would affect how you look at breeder and people often forget that. The fact that someone does show shouldn't be the deciding factor on wheter a breeder is reputable any more than a low price or the fact that the "kennel" has two breeds should send a buyer running. How low the price is would be a factor to me, I don't see how someone could breed responsibly and charge a couple hundred bucks for their puppies unless they are independently wealthy. Geography (cost of living and showing) plays a role in price too. I find it more off putting when someone charges a lot for their dogs when they aren't investing much in their breeding program.
> 
> 3) Tina, I think that guy has a lot of nerve, MHO. It's my understanding that your puppy prices are at the lower end of the spectrum for well bred puppies to begin with. Yet he wants show quality for pet price and free shipping. I just find that rude and it sounds like he is taking advantage. I'm sure there are people out there who would love to have one of your pups and appreciate what you do, instead of treating you like a fleamarket vendor. If I were looking for another Malt, I'd be one of them!


I must say that I agree with you. The fact that a person can afford to pay a high price for a puppy definitely does not insure they will take good care of the puppy.

Case in point: a friend works in Rescue, and a couple turned over a beautiful Yorkie that they had paid $3,000. for, because they were tired of the responsibility. Rescue found her a perfect home with a retired couple, that same day! They don't have a lot of money, but everything they have, they spend on this baby. They spare no expense with her Vet care, her food, and she has more toys than most children.  

$3,000. for some people is like $300.00 for others.

And I also agree, that just because someone shows, doesn't make them reputable. I've come across a few Yorkie Show breeders in my time, that treated their dogs, horrendously. All I can say is Thank God, they retired!

I think the guy that wants Tina's pup is definitely attempting to take advantage of her good nature. He doesn't deserve one of her beautiful babies, or anyone else's for that matter.

Sheila


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