# Help identifying coat type?



## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

Hi guys! I'm currently in the process of buying a Maltese puppy, and I'm attaching a pic of the one I've got my eye on right now! This was just a quick sneak peek pic, I'm waiting for more pictures and videos from the breeder. But I was wondering if you guys would be able to help me determine what type of coat she has from the picture? The breeder said her coat looks gorgeous so far and I agree but I can't tell if it's going to be the silkier type of coat or the more fluffy/wooly kind. I'm erring on the fluffy/wooly side, but I'm new to the breed so I would love to hear your feedback! 

Thanks everyone!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I would agree from the photo, but one can't really go by the puppy coat. It depends on the parentage---did you see the sire & dam? Who is the breeder?


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

These are the parents. The sire is from the breeder I'm using, her business is called Tatortot Pup, and the dam is from another breeder.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I went to this web-site---it IS a puppy mill. It offers various breeds, "tea-cup" pups, will not allow a home visit. yada, yada, yada!!!!!! There are so many red flags! There is also no record of any confirmation in regard to breeding. Please keep you $$ and go to the AMA web site & find a reputable breeder. You have no guarantee that the puppy you see in a video is the one you will receive either. Puppy's come w/tear stains---that is the norm when they are teething. 
You have come here for sound advice & we want to spare you much heartache---please step away from this pup & do your research on this site of how to choose a breeder. Please!


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

I agree with Sandi. There are many indications that this is a breeder after money, not protecting the qualities of the breed. Anyone who tells you they are breeding for a specific "look" like baby doll face is suspect. Reputable breeders breed to meet the standard, not for a particular look.


Also, she wants your deposit before you even get to meet the puppy? And only meet in a public place? Please look for a breeder who shows for conformation or who has retirees, or consider a rescue.


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Please heed the advice of the two individuals who posted in response to your question. They both know exactly what they are talking about and only want to help you make the right decision when seeking out your new Maltese Puppy. I hope that you will truly think it over before you make a purchase from the Breeder.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

If you go to the black "search" bar above you can hit this & type in "how to search for a breeder." Please read the postings there---you will find good advice. Please keep in mind that finding the "right" puppy is a process, but it pays off in the end. There have been lots of members here who have been "scammed" and ended up w/a puppy that has serious health issues. Part of the mission of SM is to help prevent that. 
People in the business of making lots of $$$ off puppies speak a slick language---they know how to entice. NO breeded will want to meet you in an open place rather than the home "to protect her other dogs." 
You will want to secure a breeder w/whom you can have on-going contact, one w/a reputable reputation. The internet makes it ivery easy to get taken. Please read as much as you can & come back to us w/questions about particular breeders.

There is usually a maltese show coming up---google Eukaneuba---it should be soon---probably in FL. Where are you located so we can make geographical suggestions. You can see lots of dogs at once, meet maltese breeders, some of our SM family go there & would be glad to help if you introduce yourself around. That is the BEST way to meet good breeders.


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm frustrated because we already took the time out of our busy days to give you feedback and help you look for a good breeder on your previous thread. Please take a step back and keep researching about how to buy a puppy safely. I can't imagine more red flags than the breeder(s) you are looking at right now.


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

Thank you all so much for the information, I've already given this woman a deposit about a month ago. I live in Los Angeles, and most of the local breeders I've found were charging more money for puppies that weren't true teacup puppies. I know that "teacup" is not a real AKC term and is just used colloquially to describe the size of smaller puppies. I have PTSD so my main reason for getting this dog is as an emotional support companion. I want a tiny dog that I can easily take with me out in public, primarily in a carrier so as not to draw as much attention. 
I will say this breeder has been very good about ongoing contact, always answers my calls and emails promptly, and has provided me with photos and videos of all the dogs I've asked about. She also offers to facetime/skype so you can see the dogs in her home and she has a youtube channel where she posts videos of the dogs in her home environment as well. She has bought her dogs from Korea, but they are her dogs that she breeds in her home. 

I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound defensive, I fully believe that all of you have much more knowledge than I do on this topic! However, the more traditional AKC breeders that I looked at in my area were charging roughly the same price or more money for puppies that were just not what I'm looking for as far as size.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Ainsley, If you will read the SM Welcome greeting you will see that SM does not endorse "tea-cup" or breeders who sell for profit. On-going contact means "after purchase" not while you are still in the process. You are not the first one to be taken in by these slick operators, but I do feel you were warned early on, if Elizabeth was correct. We do not wish you any harm, quite the contrary; however it would seem you are asking us to withold judgement against our better inclinations. 
This breeder is definitely a "broker" and that I find very sad as you become part of the problem making it possible for these brokers to continue to stay in the business of scamming people. Some people end up w/sick dogs & they are unable to keep them so they are relinquished to rescue. AMRA is then called upon to fund & rehome them. It is a never ending circle. 
I wish I were wrong---- and I understand that a number of SM members have fallen into this trap. I truly hope it goes well for you w/your new baby.


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

Thank you so much, Edelweiss. The first puppy I was looking at was from a Korean kennel, so the feedback I received on my first post I definitely did take to heart and began searching for a different breeder. I honestly didn't really understand what a puppy broker was. I thought that by buying from a breeder located in the USA who breeds her dogs in her home that that was okay and responsible breeding practice. She has Korean dogs, but the way she's explained it to me is that she has personally gone to Korea and bought the dogs herself and she now breeds them occasionally as a hobby. I thought that by getting a dog within the USA that had Korean lineage, I was getting the best of both worlds: smaller Korean "teacup" size, through a responsible local breeder. I do think maybe I was a little naive, but I thought that by interviewing this breeder thoroughly and reading reviews from her past clients, I had done my due diligence. I totally understand where all of you are coming from and again I am aware that you are all far more educated on these matters. I have already committed to buying this puppy by putting in a deposit and down payment, and I am absolutely in love with her based on the videos they've sent me! I won't be getting her until the first week of January because although she is a little over 3 months old, she's too small to leave her mother yet so I do appreciate that they aren't taking her away from her mom too early just because they have a buyer. 
Again, maybe this is just me being naive but I do have faith that this breeder is well intentioned and cares about the health of her puppies, but I do acknowledge that I should have done more research, even though I thought the amount of research I had done was sufficient at the time.

Sorry, that was long! Basically, I think all of you ladies are much wiser about these things and I appreciate so much all of the info you've given me and I fully admit that I was a bit naive but I am hopeful and optimistic about my puppy and her health and hopefully you guys can still accept me into your lovely community here! I'm definitely not perfect and am eager to learn! 

Thank you all again so much for taking time out of your busy lives to help me, I truly appreciate it! <3


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

I just looked at this site again & it says 11 available puppies (that is not a hobby breeder who occasionally has a pup available)---that is a huge red flag along w/the others. I honestly wonder how old the pup you are inquiring about really is? Maybe it is much younger since you are post-poned in its' delivery (so as to make it look smaller.) Have you seen the pedigree? 
I would respectfully disagree w/your statement that this is a "breeder" (we would call her a "greeder") who is well intentioned & cares about the health of her puppies. I have personal experience w/a friend who bought a dog like this and it was a huge disappointment. I do not wish that for you. I do understand that you have made a deposit, etc. & it is painful for me to realize that so many do this w/the best of intentions.
Please don't think we are not welcoming. We learn through our mistakes. Now it will be your job to instruct others who come w/your same experience.


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

I don't think she has 11 puppies available, I just looked on her site and I only see 3 that are currently available to purchase. 
I haven't seen any paperwork/pedigree, just photos of the parents. I'm now a little worried about the age thing. :/ I guess I have no way to confirm how old she really is, that's definitely a little worrisome, I never thought about that. Are there any physical indicators of a puppy's age that I might be able to spot in her videos/pictures? I've googled "Maltese puppies 4 weeks/8 weeks/3 months" etc to try to compare, and she definitely looks more developed than the 4/8 weeks.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Babydoll Faced Maltese Puppies for Sale, Korean Lines Maltese Puppies for sale, Teacup Maltese Puppies for sale

I took that off the web-site just now?
http://www.tatortotpup.com


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Even if it isn't 11 available there are enough other red flags---
The best indicator of age are the teeth & you can't see that in a photo---a vet would be able to know. Also, this kind of slick operation might show you any puppy's photos---so try not to fixate on that. My friend who is a breeder had her dogs/bitches photos stolen & they were being used to sell dogs on-line like this. Just sayin/

There is a maltese data base on line if you can get the official names of the dam & sire & the breeders' names.


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

OMG, this puppy mill is even worse than I thought! Red flag right there that you can't visit their home for their "safety." What BS. Any good breeder will WANT you to visit in person to meet you and ensure a good fit. And those prices?!!!?!!! Even Chrisman, which is the most expensive show breeder, charges less for pet puppies. And red flag #50, charging $2000 more if you want to breed the dog. GOOD breeders usually do NOT charge any more for a show dog, it is simply a different contract. And of course, these dogs can't be shown because they don't even have real papers (CKC is a surefire puppy mill association, although AKC can definitely be too). And...they source more than one breed, as I see a Pom on their sales page. They are seriously the worst. They make my blood boil. You'd be wise to eat your deposit and walk away!


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

Even with losing your deposit, you could find a nice female from an ethical breeder for the same price you would've paid for one of those liver shunt deformed "teacups." You do NOT need a dog smaller than 4 lbs. Sorry, no one does. My Malt is almost 9 lbs in her older age, and I can still carry her with no problem. So a 4 lb. one from a good breeder would be very feasible.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

In reading the references I see she offers long haired chis, poms, yorkies & apparently maltese---these are all mentioned. I am not sure which other breeds she could secure. All the dogs seem to be very small that are referenced.
This is why I am calling her a "broker."


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

I've already paid most of the cost and have paid for the plane ticket for the pet nanny to bring her to me, so it's a done deal. I'm crossing my fingers that they're being honest and I will get the specific puppy that I've paid for. She looks the same in all of the pictures and videos they've sent me, including videos of her doing specific things. For example, the first video they sent me didn't feature her walking around or playing so I asked them to please take another video of her so I could see her moving around and they were able to provide that for me the next day. I could clearly see that it was the same puppy as the first video and the photos match as well and are in the same location with the same backdrops.

Hopefully that is the puppy I will receive, I believe it will be due to her past positive reviews from people and people have said that they have ongoing contact with her for years after they get their puppy and that she's good about helping them with any questions they have later down the line so I'm hopeful that it will be alright. I do completely understand both of your concerns though. 

Honestly I always thought that going through AKC breeders was only important if you planned on getting a show dog or a dog to use as a breeding dog or something, I didn't realize it was commonplace to use AKC breeders for just pets. And I didn't care about getting paperwork for her or registering her or anything so it wasn't a concern of mine. 

As far as teeth coming in, she does say this about their teeth in her care guide:
_"Tinies tend to wait longer than average toy dogs for their teeth to come in. So do NOT fall victim of the uneducated "tinies" myth about the teeth tell the age. TINIES ARE A DIFFERENT ball park! Once again this shows ignorance on those who don't know tinies!!!! Some tinies don't get their front teeth until 5-7 months old!!!! Between 5 months and 7 months they will be cutting their first teeth so just like a human baby, needs things to teeth on. Plastic teething toys are great as long as they don't chip off. Teething also tends to bring more tears. So if your puppy is staining a bit more from Tears, this is generally very normal. You can purchase a eye wash and a eye powder that would help manage this. Always make sure you supervise anything your tiny is chewing on!"_

Has anyone ever noticed teeth coming in later for smaller puppies?


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

My Lisi is 8 yrs. old (half Korean, half Italian breeds) she weighs 4.5 lbs & she got her teeth just like my boy who is half Korean & half American (both from great stock). He is almost 10 & weighs 7 lbs. A vet will be able to tell the age (approximate) of any dog you get.

I would not give a puppy plastic toys to chew on!


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

Yeah plastic seems too hard! I've heard Nylabone is good for puppies? I think that's the brand my family used for our Pomeranian puppy I had growing up. 

Did Lisi's teeth come in at a normal rate? Or did they take longer to come in since she's smaller?


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Please do not give your Dogs or Puppies any Nylabone products. The ones that can be especially harmful are the resin ones as they tend to do great harm to their stomachs and cause a great deal of harm. There are articles if you search Nylabone.


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

Omg I had no idea! Thank you so much, I will definitely steer clear of Nylabone!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Ainsley said:


> Yeah plastic seems too hard! I've heard Nylabone is good for puppies? I think that's the brand my family used for our Pomeranian puppy I had growing up.
> 
> Did Lisi's teeth come in at a normal rate? Or did they take longer to come in since she's smaller?


Very normal rate! I had her baby teeth removed about 10 months of age as she had 2 sets of teeth in her mouth. She has only had one tooth pulled that grew in funny & was touching her gums on the bottom. She also lost one of her teeth probably chewing on a Churpi Chew. Kitzel lost one or two that way too.


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

edelweiss said:


> Very normal rate! I had her baby teeth removed about 10 months of age as she had 2 sets of teeth in her mouth. She has only had one tooth pulled that grew in funny & was touching her gums on the bottom. She also lost one of her teeth probably chewing on a Churpi Chew. Kitzel lost one or two that way too.


Oh okay that's good to know! Thanks for the info! My friend's teacup yorkie had the double set of teeth going on too, the "shark teeth" thing haha. I guess it's common for smaller dogs!


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Yes, maltese & teeth are always interesting---we just had the baby teeth removed when Lisi was spayed & Kitzel got his out when he was neutered. He is bigger than Lisi but he had to have more removed---she has a very tiny mouth & teeny tiny teeth. I have to bug the smalles kibble possible---but she doesn't get much kibble at all.


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## KenziB (Mar 1, 2017)

*Have you seen puppy in person*

When I was searching for my Kenzi, I found 3 or 4 scammers offering puppies. I Reversee searched photos....discovered some photos taken in UK and some in Taiwan yet supposed Virginia and Florida breeders. One said she was in military and being transferred to Maine and would have to deliver by airplane shipping as was being transferred in 3 days. After I told her I was in New Hampshire and close to Maine, I never heard from her again. Her name also didn’t show on the active military website. I work in a law office and always search that website as cannot serve civil legal process on active military...at least for the type of cases I work with. She wanted me to send money for purchase and for airfare...the puppy was 4 months old yet the exact 4 pictures I had found using reversee were taken nearly 2 years prior.


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## KenziB (Mar 1, 2017)

*Dog picture on website tatertot also offered by 2 other breeders*

This pic is on tatertot website as well as on 2 other non related websites....SCAMMER ALERT.

















Use a breeder near you so that you may visit. Reputable breeders often want to check out the new owner as well and, therefore, require an in-person ahead of time.


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## Nena2KK (Nov 16, 2016)

This thread makes me so sad. Have not been on here for a long time but when I saw “puppy mill” l just had to respond. We adopted our Lexi three years ago. We live in Ohio~right in the middle of the awful Amish puppy mills. She was pulled by a rescue after the Amish were finished with her and took her to be euthanized. She is my baby, wonderful companion, and I still tear up when I imagine the life she lived. She was so scared of everyone and everything. We did not know her history but she was fully potty trained and her our groomer commented on how she could tell that Lexi was used to being groomed. Our groomer and our vet both agreed that she had most likely been used as the “model” for pictures to advertise their puppies. She has frequent ear infections caused a deformed ear canal (because a previous bad infection was never treated), she still does not know what a a toy is for (despite our purchasing many), but she is healthy and happy (as long as I am no more than 12 inches away from her). She is my 8.5 pound 5year old PRINCESS. I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE PUPPY MILLS!!!


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

KenziB said:


> This pic is on tatertot website as well as on 2 other non related websites....SCAMMER ALERT.
> 
> View attachment 258628
> 
> ...


I looked at both of those facebook pages and couldn't find that photo anywhere. I also did a reverse image search for all the photos of my puppy and they all came up with zero results. I was given a video of my puppy showing off her face and I then asked them for an additional video and requested that she be walking around/playing and they sent me a new custom video the next day that met my request. I could clearly see that it was the same puppy as the first video and was in the same location. I did look at breeders in my area, but none of them had the smaller Korean "teacup" look that I was after. 

@Nena2KK I'm so sorry that your little one had such a rough past and I'm so happy that she's thriving with you now! However, I do not believe this is a puppy mill. I believe she is a home breeder and she has been very communicative and hands-on about educating me on the special care that these tiny puppies require. I don't think people who run puppy mills are that concerned about communicating with or educating their clients.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Ainsley said:


> I looked at both of those facebook pages and couldn't find that photo anywhere. I also did a reverse image search for all the photos of my puppy and they all came up with zero results. I was given a video of my puppy showing off her face and I then asked them for an additional video and requested that she be walking around/playing and they sent me a new custom video the next day that met my request. I could clearly see that it was the same puppy as the first video and was in the same location. I did look at breeders in my area, but none of them had the smaller Korean "teacup" look that I was after.
> 
> @Nena2KK I'm so sorry that your little one had such a rough past and I'm so happy that she's thriving with you now! However, I do not believe this is a puppy mill. I believe she is a home breeder and she has been very communicative and hands-on about educating me on the special care that these tiny puppies require. I don't think people who run puppy mills are that concerned about communicating with or educating their clients.



You've heard a lot from the voices of experience here; it's unfortunate that their advice hasn't been taken to heart. Red flags on your "breeder" include CKC (unless you're in Canada, it's a registration created so puppy mills can register their puppies), prices higher than the best show breeders, calling them teacups (that word in itself is a scam), ridiculous payment and no refund policy, putting a puppy "on sale" for black Friday, I could go on and on.


I do hope that you wind up with the puppy you think you are going to get and that the puppy is truly healthy.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Ainsley, I agree w/Maggie above. Your "breeder" is a "broker." She buys & sells all kinds of puppies. You can choose to believe otherwise because your heart is fixated on the puppy you chose & you are already emotionally involved, & financially involved. I get that! It is difficult to admit something IF we don't want it to be true. Believe me, I have been in that situation but w/other circumstances---so I know the feeling.
We all wish to believe the "good." But unfortunately we have had to learn some hard lessons. We all wish you the best, but please don't call this broker a "breeder." I am sorry you got caught up in her deciet. I can tell you are a good person & it breaks my heart to see you defending her.


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

Again, I have already paid for the puppy so there's not much I can do at this point. Not sure how it's productive to continue pointing out things that you all believe are "red flags" simply because it doesn't comply with the AKC/AMA standard. 

The only kinds of puppies I've seen her selling recently are Pomeranians, Maltese, and maltipoms. She owns both Pomeranians and Maltese. I do agree that there's probably some brokering going on, as I know that my puppy was not bred in her home, but by a Korean breeder who used one of her studs. So I believe she does import some puppies that she didn't breed herself, I'm not blind to that. 

@Edelweiss, thank you for being understanding of my situation and offering some compassion. It's very much appreciated.

I was really excited to find this forum and get advice on how to properly care for my puppy, but unfortunately I just feel attacked and shamed. I understand wanting to educate people on breeding standards, but the general vitriol I've been met with just makes me feel discouraged and is putting a huge damper on what should be a very happy and exciting time.


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## Snuggle's Mom (Jan 3, 2008)

Unfortunately, you did not visit this site before you already made a commitment to purchase this Puppy Ainsley. But in all honesty, those who have given you some very sound and good advice are all just looking out for you and were certainly not trying in anyway to shame you or make you feel discouraged. I have been coming to this site for quite some time and the people that post are some of the most sincere, caring,and knowledgeable individuals that you would want to meet. I almost purchased a little tiny Yorkie at the end of July from what is supposed to be a very reputable Breeder and so glad that I immediately saw many "red flags" and backed away. I did however, get the most adorable little tiny Yorkie Puppy at the beginning of October from a very reputable Yorkie Breeder and could not be happier with our new little Laci!! I personally want to wish you all the best with your new Puppy and hope that every thing works out for you when you finally get her home with you.


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

Ainsley said:


> Again, I have already paid for the puppy so there's not much I can do at this point. Not sure how it's productive to continue pointing out things that you all believe are "red flags" simply because it doesn't comply with the AKC/AMA standard.
> 
> The only kinds of puppies I've seen her selling recently are Pomeranians, Maltese, and maltipoms. She owns both Pomeranians and Maltese. I do agree that there's probably some brokering going on, as I know that my puppy was not bred in her home, but by a Korean breeder who used one of her studs. So I believe she does import some puppies that she didn't breed herself, I'm not blind to that.
> 
> ...


Ainsley please don't feel attacked and shamed. It's not you that people are upset with, its this "breeder". We are family here and we all love our dogs and we just hate to see these situations where people are in the business of breeding just to make money. True breeders are supposed to breed their dogs to produce the healthiest dog possible, not to produce the tiniest dog just so they can make more money.

Don't feel bad either that you didn't know what to look for in a breeder. When I got Pipper, I got him from what we call a "backyard breeder". I just didn't know either. I was very uneducated on what to look for and thought you only buy from a show breeder if you planned on showing your dog. Now I know the difference.

Please keep coming back here. Once you bring your puppy home you will have tons of questions and someone here will always have an answer.
By the way, when do you get her and do you have a name picked out?


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

Thank you so much for the kind words, I truly appreciate it! I do wish I wouldn't have been quite as hasty in making my decision and had done more research, but there's no going back now so I'm just going to do my best moving forward. The breeder is going to be receiving the puppy from Korea on December 18th, so I'm going to ask her if we can skype/facetime so that I can see the puppy again and make sure that it is the same puppy as the videos. If that is not the puppy I end up picking up at the airport in January, I will do my best to get my money back but I hope that isn't necessary. I've paid through PayPal so I guess there's a chance I could dispute the charges if I end up receiving a different puppy, but I really hope it doesn't come to that because there's no guarantee I'd be able to get my money back. I signed a contract so I'm pretty sure she's protected herself from that.


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## Kilo (Mar 5, 2019)

As long as you paid with the "Services and goods" option and not "friends and family", you can file a dispute through PayPal, if god forbid it comes to that.

PayPal is actually really good about handling disputes professionally. I can definitely see them reimbursing you, if the breeder pulls the ol' switcharoonie on yah. Hopefully there's no clause in their policy regarding the purchase of pets though.


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## kayanne (Sep 15, 2018)

At this point, since you have already paid what you imply is a significant amount of money as a deposit, I will just give you this advice: either buy pet health insurance or have at least $10,000 set aside for vet bills.
I bought my first Maltese back in 2008, knowing nothing about ethical breeders. Long story short, my precious Lily had numerous health issues and surgeries through the years. At age 10 (last year), she was fine one day, then suddenly paralyzed from the neck down the next day. We spent almost $5000 the last week of her life on vet specialists to help her, but even spinal surgery could not fix her paralysis, so we had to put her down. 
This is the kind of dog unethical breeders sell. Heartbreaking stories like mine are the reason people here have tried to persuade you to walk away from this breeder. I know you want to hope for the best and think your new dog won't have serious health issues, but genetic issues are common in puppy mill dogs, so do please have pet insurance or money set aside for the likelihood of problems like luxating patella, liver shunt, vertebral issues, etc.


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

@Kilo, thank you so much, that's good to know! They've been sending me more updated videos of her so I don't think they'd try to switch the puppy since I've been able to see her growth, so they wouldn't really be able to use the "oh no it's not a different dog she just grew so she looks different" excuse. 

@Kayanne, I'm so so sorry for your loss, that sounds absolutely horrible and I'm so sorry you and your sweet puppy had to go through that. In hindsight, I do wish I had asked for more information on the parents' health, although I suppose that's still something I can do now just to try to help foresee any issues. The breeder has been very transparent in saying that these puppies are extremely fragile and require very specialized care in order to remain healthy, so she's gone over the strict regimented feeding schedule for her as well as taking it very easy in the first year of life. For example, I am not to walk her outside on a leash or let her have free reign of the house because she could expend too much energy and risk hypoglycemia, so she will need to be carefully supervised. I'm hoping that by being extra cautious in the beginning, it'll help set her up for success in the long run, but I will absolutely keep an eye out for those problems you mentioned. I think luxating patella is common in a lot of small dogs in general, my friend has a 5 lb yorkie who has problems with that and my parents' Pomeranian mix has it as well.


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Ainsley said:


> For example, I am not to walk her outside on a leash or let her have free reign of the house because she could expend too much energy and risk hypoglycemia, so she will need to be carefully supervised.



This is absolutely not true of healthy dogs. Hypoglycemia is usually a risk in dogs that have been deliberately underfed in order to maintain their "tiny" weight or in puppies that have been pulled from their mother too soon.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Ainsley, I agree w/Maggie above.
Most of us here have had a Bile Acids Assay (paired blood test for portosystemic liver shunt) at around 16 weeks done on our pups. It shows elevated liver enzymes & is a good test for later on should anything present itself. It also shows MVD in pups---very important test, and even more important in small dogs. 
It may not sound like it, but you are in a safe place here. There is a lot of good if not great information on the maltese breed. We are not trying to sell you anything---we don't have a horse in that race. All of us have made mistakes from which we have all learned & this is a good group to be in in terms of love of the breed, and collected experience. Infact because it is a "breed designated" group--- we sometimes know move than your local vet. I say that w/humility but honesty. We all want what is best for you!

I would also respectfully say that these are tough little dogs. My Lisi had surgery at an amazing ER clinic this fall & I was told by her ICU nurse that everyone in the hospital was amazed at what a strong little girl she is---one of the strongest they have ever had there, if not THE strongest. There are some genetically unhealthy things in the maltese breed---we need to be vigilant & continue to educate ourselves to what those are & how to recognize them. 
We don't all agree on everything, but we do agree that we are advocates for our own pups & for others who belong to the breed.


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## pippersmom (May 21, 2012)

I would be a little suspicious of this breeder saying not to walk the puppy on a leash or let her have free reign of the house because she would use up too much energy????? A healthy puppy has endless energy and you need to give them exercise to burn off that energy just to keep them from getting into trouble. You just don't walk them outside until they have had all their puppy shots and don't give them free reign of the house until they are potty trained and until you know they won't get into anything that could be dangerous for them. 
When Pipper was a puppy he had sooooo much energy that once I FINALLY got him to lay down for a nap I didn't move or didn't even breathe for fear of waking him up :HistericalSmiley: Even now at 8 years of age he is full of energy and we walk him for a few miles every day.


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

Ainsley said:


> The breeder has been very transparent in saying that these puppies are extremely fragile and require very specialized care in order to remain healthy, so she's gone over the strict regimented feeding schedule for her as well as taking it very easy in the first year of life. For example, I am not to walk her outside on a leash or let her have free reign of the house because she could expend too much energy and risk hypoglycemia,


Oh wow, yet another major red flag *sigh*. Healthy, normal Maltese puppies are extremely playful and active when they come home at 12 weeks old and you wouldn't need to worry about hypoglycemia. 

Yes, definitely get her bile acids done, as Sandi advised. 

And where is the puppy now?? She was supposed to fly in from the Korean puppy mill on the 18th? When are you getting her? 

Sorry if I come across as rude, but I'm just so deeply upset by this. I blame the mill and the dealer waaaaay more than you because I know you had no idea what you were getting into. I just hope and pray everything turns out okay.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Elizabeth, she said on 11/29 that she would be collecting the puppy in Jan. JFYI


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

edelweiss said:


> Elizabeth, she said on 11/29 that she would be collecting the puppy in Jan. JFYI


Okay. Why the loooong wait in between puppy's arrival and pickup?


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

Thanks so much for the information, everyone! I am just going to have to see how her energy level and personality is once I get her. She is coming with all her shots though, so I'm glad to not have to worry about that. I will see about getting that bile acids test though! 

From what I've read about tiny puppies, hypoglycemia is a common risk and they should be monitored carefully. I understand that you guys think that due to her size she is unhealthy. She currently weighs 1.23 pounds and will be 4 months old on the 27th. She was about .6 pounds around a month ago, so she does seem to be growing. Her dad is 3.75 pounds and the mom is 4 pounds, so I think she is just genetically small and not underfed. She seems full of energy in her videos. 

The breeder hasn't expressly told me that the puppy is in Korea, I am just guessing that she is. But the breeder will be receiving her now on the 27th. She is flying here with her littermate and the other breeder (the Korean one I'm assuming) wants them both to be eating solid kibble before they leave their mother. Right now, their teeth are still coming in so their kibble still needs to be moistened a bit. But they said they should be good to fly by the 27th. 

I am getting her on January 3rd because I will be going home to Dallas to visit my family for the holidays so I am waiting until I'm back in town in Los Angeles so that she doesn't have to go on an extra plane ride.


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## kayanne (Sep 15, 2018)

Ainsley said:


> Thanks so much for the information, everyone! I am just going to have to see how her energy level and personality is once I get her. She is coming with all her shots though, so I'm glad to not have to worry about that. I will see about getting that bile acids test though!
> 
> From what I've read about tiny puppies, hypoglycemia is a common risk and they should be monitored carefully. I understand that you guys think that due to her size she is unhealthy. She currently weighs 1.23 pounds and will be 4 months old on the 27th. She was about .6 pounds around a month ago, so she does seem to be growing. Her dad is 3.75 pounds and the mom is 4 pounds, so I think she is just genetically small and not underfed. She seems full of energy in her videos.
> 
> ...


How can the breeder not know where the puppy is? If this person is the *breeder* the puppies would be with her. Is this a broker or middleman that you've been talking with?
That weight of 1.23 pounds at 4 months is very concerning. I don't even know how that is possible.


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

Ainsley said:


> From what I've read about tiny puppies, *hypoglycemia is a common risk *and they should be monitored carefully. I understand that you guys think that due to her size she is unhealthy. She currently weighs 1.23 pounds and will be 4 months old on the 27th. She was about .6 pounds around a month ago, so she does seem to be growing. Her dad is 3.75 pounds and the mom is 4 pounds, so I think she is just genetically small and not underfed. She seems full of energy in her videos.
> 
> It is only a common risk in dogs that are bred too small. It is disgustingly unethical to breed a 3.75 lb dog to a 4 lb bitch. Ethical breeders use bitches who are on the highest end of the breed standard.
> 
> ...


That makes sense. Truly hoping for the best outcome for your sake and puppy's sake.


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## zooeysmom (Aug 1, 2011)

kayanne said:


> How can the breeder not know where the puppy is? If this person is the *breeder* the puppies would be with her. Is this a broker or middleman that you've been talking with?
> That weight of 1.23 pounds at 4 months is very concerning. I don't even know how that is possible.


Kayanne, it has been established that she is buying from a dealer. She realizes she has made a mistake and now everyone is hoping for the best for the little one.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

zooeysmom said:


> Kayanne, it has been established that she is buying from a dealer. She realizes she has made a mistake and now everyone is hoping for the best for the little one.


:goodpost:

:ThankYou::ThankYou:


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

Thank you Elisabeth and Sandi.  <3 

@Kayanne, The breeder (or broker/dealer/middleman/etc) knows where the dog is, I haven't explicitly asked, I am assuming the dog is in Korea.

Basically, I had originally found a Florida breeder and put in a deposit for an upcoming litter she had due in December. I then saw videos of the parents (I put in a deposit upon only seeing pictures of the parents) and realized they were a bit bigger than I thought. The breeder has a youtube channel with videos of her previous puppies/dogs, and there was a video of a precious full grown Maltese that was tiny and so I sent her the link to the video and asked if she would be having any puppies that would be closer to that size full grown soon. She then said that her breeder friend used one of her dogs as a stud and so she was able to choose a puppy from that litter to sell as like "payment" for her friend using her dog as the stud. The puppy was much smaller and the parents were smaller so she assured me it would be closer to the size of the dog in the video. I assumed that this was another local Florida breeder since she claimed her dog was used as the stud. 
However, I now realize that this is in fact not another local breeder and is most likely a dog from a Korean breeder. I feel awful if this is in fact a puppy mill that I have unknowingly supported, but I'm hoping that she's being kept in nice conditions. I believe she is, since they are taking special care to not take her from her mother too soon and not have her fly while she is still so small. 


I do also want to add that I truly love and adore animals and care very much about their health and wellbeing. In fact, I am vegan for this fact and am always advocating for animal welfare. I thought I had done enough research going into the puppy buying process, but clearly there were some red flags that I missed. I am taking as many precautions as I can from this point forward to insure I can care for this little fur baby in the best way possible and am going to be extra cautious about her health since she is so tiny and fragile.


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## kayanne (Sep 15, 2018)

Hi Ainsley, I think I understand what you're saying now, which is that the person you've been talking with says she is a breeder, but not the breeder of the puppy you're getting, which is most likely coming from Korea. 
At any rate, I do wish you luck with this little puppy and I hope all goes smoothly and happily.


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## Ainsley (Nov 10, 2019)

@Kayanne Yes exactly, kind of a confusing story to follow haha! Thank you so much, I hope so too!


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