# Even grain-free commercial kibble test postive for gluten grains



## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

*UPDATE: Further info found at this link. Be sure to read the comments.
*

http://www.glutenfreefox.com/articles/glut...ood-update.html



Maybe this is why some grain-sensitive dogs react negatively, even to "grain-free dry dog food kibble." 

FYI, gluten is a protein found in: wheat/rye/oats/barley/kamut/spelt/triticale. Gluten is not naturally found in meats or vegetables.

Here is an excerpt posted from someone on another private forum I belong to. 

*I have not found a dry dog or cat food that will pass Gluten testing. They are all loaded with gluten even though they are "supposed" to be grain free. I have found a few canned dog and cat foods that will pass. 
*
If any of you would like me to check the list for your dry food, please PM me and I will give you the information privately. 

BTW, without posting brand names, _*ALL of the grain-free food that is often mentioned/recommended here on SM forum is on the list for containing gluten. *_

Edited: Grain free kibble that has ingredients like: 6 fresh fish, Ocean Fish, Duck and Potato, etc.

So maybe I'm not so crazy or cynical to be mistrustful of the commercial dog food industry (as well as the human food industry.) You would not believe how many so-called "gluten-free" human food tests positive for gluten! (There is a good gluten home testing kit available that celiac people use.) 

See, this is why I am always recommending home cooking for your dogs, and buying/consuming foods in their natural state and directly from farms when available, instead of eating prepackaged foods. You don't really know what you are getting, no matter what the label says, and whether it is approved by the FDA, USDA, etc. 

If you are concerned about your brand and want to clarify with the manufacturer itself, then contact them and ask if they test their food for GLUTEN, and what the results are/were. Tell them you want them to prove to you that their food is truly grain-free.

I have no idea whether dog food companies are required by law to test for grain/gluten, to be able label their foods grain-free. Does anyone know? Human foods supposedly are tested before they are able to be labeled gluten-free. 

If the dog food has gluten, it has some cereal grain residue in it. I would venture an uneducated guess that they use flour in the dry food recipe to bind the ingredients. If your dog is sensitive to grains, it is shameful that the supposed grain-free foods contain grains!

Just thought I'd share with you. I hope that this helps those of you who have dogs who are sensitive even to grain-free food.


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Unless I'm missing something, Dr. Harvey's Veg-To-Bowl is Grain Free/Gluten Free and I believe Grandma Lucy's Truth Grain Free Dog Food is also Grain Free/Gluten Free.

*Ingredients for Dr. Harvey's Veg-To-Bowl:* Sweet Potatoes, Carrots, Diced Potatoes, Zucchini, Broccoli Florets, Green Beans, Peas, Beets, Parsley, Calcium Citrate, Fennel Seed, Fenugreek Seed, Garlic, Ginger, Papaya Leaf, and Peppermint Leaf.

*Ingredients for Grandma Lucy's Truth Dog Food (Lamb Formula):* USDA Lamb, Potatoes, Flax, Carrots, Celery, Garlic, Apples, Blueberry, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Niacin, Iron, Calcium, Phosphorus, Zinc, Riboflavin, Thiamin, Potassium, Manganese, Potassium, Manganese, Chloride, Copper, Magnesium, Pyridoxine, Cyanocobalamin, Maltodextrin.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Yes, but they aren't kibble. I'm talking about kibble.



QUOTE (Crystal&Zoe @ Sep 1 2009, 12:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=824853


> Unless I'm missing something, Dr. Harvey's Veg-To-Bowl is Grain Free/Gluten Free and I believe Grandma Lucy's Truth Grain Free Dog Food is also Grain Free/Gluten Free.
> 
> *Ingredients for Dr. Harvey's Veg-To-Bowl:* Sweet Potatoes, Carrots, Diced Potatoes, Zucchini, Broccoli Florets, Green Beans, Peas, Beets, Parsley, Calcium Citrate, Fennel Seed, Fenugreek Seed, Garlic, Ginger, Papaya Leaf, and Peppermint Leaf.
> 
> *Ingredients for Grandma Lucy's Truth Dog Food (Lamb Formula):* USDA Lamb, Potatoes, Flax, Carrots, Celery, Garlic, Apples, Blueberry, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Niacin, Iron, Calcium, Phosphorus, Zinc, Riboflavin, Thiamin, Potassium, Manganese, Potassium, Manganese, Chloride, Copper, Magnesium, Pyridoxine, Cyanocobalamin, Maltodextrin.[/B]


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## CrystalAndZoe (Jul 11, 2006)

Gotcha. I was just concerned I was missing something.  I don't recommend Kibble PERIOD. :yucky: :thmbdn: 

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Sep 1 2009, 12:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=824858


> Yes, but they aren't kibble. I'm talking about kibble.
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE (Crystal&Zoe @ Sep 1 2009, 12:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=824853





> Unless I'm missing something, Dr. Harvey's Veg-To-Bowl is Grain Free/Gluten Free and I believe Grandma Lucy's Truth Grain Free Dog Food is also Grain Free/Gluten Free.
> 
> *Ingredients for Dr. Harvey's Veg-To-Bowl:* Sweet Potatoes, Carrots, Diced Potatoes, Zucchini, Broccoli Florets, Green Beans, Peas, Beets, Parsley, Calcium Citrate, Fennel Seed, Fenugreek Seed, Garlic, Ginger, Papaya Leaf, and Peppermint Leaf.
> 
> *Ingredients for Grandma Lucy's Truth Dog Food (Lamb Formula):* USDA Lamb, Potatoes, Flax, Carrots, Celery, Garlic, Apples, Blueberry, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Niacin, Iron, Calcium, Phosphorus, Zinc, Riboflavin, Thiamin, Potassium, Manganese, Potassium, Manganese, Chloride, Copper, Magnesium, Pyridoxine, Cyanocobalamin, Maltodextrin.[/B]


[/B][/QUOTE]


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Regarding grains found in grain-free kibble, it could be cross-contamination if the manufacturer produces other kibbles that contain grains, I don't know. It bothers me because some people are so careful to feed their dogs a kibble that is marketed as grain-free, when in fact it really isn't, and the dogs might still suffer from what they think are "unexplained" allergies.

Anyway, maybe a little bit of grain doesn't hurt most dogs, but for for a super sensitive one, it might cause problems.


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Sep 1 2009, 12:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=824871


> Regarding grains found in grain-free kibble, it could be cross-contamination if the manufacturer produces other kibbles that contain grains, I don't know. It bothers me because some people are so careful to feed their dogs a kibble that is marketed as grain-free, when in fact it really isn't, and the dogs might still suffer from what they think are "unexplained" allergies.
> 
> Anyway, maybe a little bit of grain doesn't hurt most dogs, but for for a super sensitive one, it might cause problems.[/B]


So what purpose does adding gluten have? you mentnioned maybe as a binding ingredient. And what is the % of gluten that they are finding in the foods--your quote from another forum says "loaded" with gluten. Do they list gluten as an ingredient on any of the bags? I just don't get how they can say grain-free but contain gluten. Has anyone written any of the companies and asked?

Good info, thanks! To be honest I don't trust any of the companies--from the "premium" ones right down to the not-so-great ingredient ones. If I could clone myself and cook for the doggies I would in a heartbeat. It's not out of the question--I've been keeping it in the back of my mind as a "figure out how to do it" item...


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

QUOTE (camfan @ Sep 1 2009, 02:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=824887


> QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Sep 1 2009, 12:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=824871





> Regarding grains found in grain-free kibble, it could be cross-contamination if the manufacturer produces other kibbles that contain grains, I don't know. It bothers me because some people are so careful to feed their dogs a kibble that is marketed as grain-free, when in fact it really isn't, and the dogs might still suffer from what they think are "unexplained" allergies.
> 
> Anyway, maybe a little bit of grain doesn't hurt most dogs, but for for a super sensitive one, it might cause problems.[/B]


So what purpose does adding gluten have? you mentnioned maybe as a binding ingredient. And what is the % of gluten that they are finding in the foods--your quote from another forum says "loaded" with gluten. Do they list gluten as an ingredient on any of the bags? I just don't get how they can say grain-free but contain gluten. Has anyone written any of the companies and asked?

Good info, thanks! To be honest I don't trust any of the companies--from the "premium" ones right down to the not-so-great ingredient ones. If I could clone myself and cook for the doggies I would in a heartbeat. It's not out of the question--I've been keeping it in the back of my mind as a "figure out how to do it" item...


[/B][/QUOTE]


I might be able to find out more on the positive test results regarding how many parts per million . I am guessing that it is over 5 PPM. As far as I know, grains are not listed as an ingredient on grain free kibble, like EVO, to use an example: http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp...=in&id=1488

It is not a question of gluten, but of grains. Gluten is only found in grains. There wouldn't be any reason for them to list "gluten" as an ingredient because gluten is only one part of cereal grains, not an ingredient in itself, unless one buys wheat gluten to make bread. Like I said before, perhaps they use flour as a binder, or there is cross-contamination from the manufacturing of their other foods that might contain grain. I do not know if anyone from the other forum has written to the companies. Maybe I could find out for you. 

I am only posting this information to help those of you who have grain-sensitive dogs and use grain-free foods, but are finding your dog still has allergy symptoms.


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## wooflife (Aug 8, 2007)

I may be wrong but I thought wheat gluten was an ingredient in a lot of dog foods - wasn't it part of the recall issue?

Like you said earlier I wonder if the gluten is used as part of other ingredients that are added to the food like supplements.

I would say there is also a pretty high possibility that cross contamination is a factor as well. I have not read anywhere that manufacturers use separate machinery to mix grain-free food as they do to mix foods containing grains. 

Thanks for the info - like you this makes me happy that I home-cook.


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

I am pretty sure that gluten is listed on some dog foods because its a cheap protein? But this is interesting, Suzan, where is the info from? Were there tests done and if so, by whom? Thank you for all the great info you post!!

EDIT: just found glutenfreefox.com and checking them out.....thanks again!


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

QUOTE (tamizami @ Sep 1 2009, 07:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=824950


> I am pretty sure that gluten is listed on some dog foods because its a cheap protein? But this is interesting, Suzan, where is the info from? Were there tests done and if so, by whom? Thank you for all the great info you post!!
> 
> EDIT: just found glutenfreefox.com and checking them out.....thanks again![/B]


You know, Tami, maybe I was premature in posting this info as I didn't do the testing myself, but I was concerned about hidden allergies in dogs who are being fed grain-free food. If the food is supposed to be grain-free, it should not contain any kind of wheat/oat/rye/triticale/spelt gluten. In that case, it would not be grain-free.

I don't personally know the people who did the dog food testing. It is a couple of folks who are gluten intolerant/celiac and posted their test findings on one of the many gluten intolerance forums. Most of the products that they test are human foods. I just happened upon an old post that mentioned dog food. For reasons of cross-contamination, people with celiac disease obviously do not want to have any gluten products at all in their homes, so they try to feed their pets gluten free foods, hence the testing. Because food is processed by huge companies in huge manufacturing facilities, cross contamination is a big problem for people with allergies and intolerance. And with Celiac, even the tiniest ppm can cause damage to the intestines to those who are most sensitive. 

As far as I know, there is only one gluten test kit that is for home use. I have to assume that is what they used to test the dog food.


Hope this helps!


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Sep 1 2009, 05:34 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=824965


> QUOTE (tamizami @ Sep 1 2009, 07:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=824950





> I am pretty sure that gluten is listed on some dog foods because its a cheap protein? But this is interesting, Suzan, where is the info from? Were there tests done and if so, by whom? Thank you for all the great info you post!!
> 
> EDIT: just found glutenfreefox.com and checking them out.....thanks again![/B]


You know, Tami, maybe I was premature in posting this info as I didn't do the testing myself, but I was concerned about hidden allergies in dogs who are being fed grain-free food. If the food is supposed to be grain-free, it should not contain any kind of wheat/oat/rye/triticale/spelt gluten. In that case, it would not be grain-free.

I don't personally know the people who did the dog food testing. It is a couple of folks who are gluten intolerant/celiac and posted their test findings on one of the many gluten intolerance forums. Most of the products that they test are human foods. I just happened upon an old post that mentioned dog food. For reasons of cross-contamination, people with celiac disease obviously do not want to have any gluten products at all in their homes, so they try to feed their pets gluten free foods, hence the testing. Because food is processed by huge companies in huge manufacturing facilities, cross contamination is a big problem for people with allergies and intolerance. And with Celiac, even the tiniest ppm can cause damage to the intestines to those who are most sensitive. 

As far as I know, there is only one gluten test kit that is for home use. I have to assume that is what they used to test the dog food.


Hope this helps!
[/B][/QUOTE]

Oh I didn't mean it to sound like I didn't trust the findings if you didn't do the testings personally, I was just curious to look into the info.  I'm not aware that we have any gluten intolerance in our house and the primary reason I feed the dogs grain free is that they lack the digestive enzymes to process them and they get more vitamins and minerals from vegetables instead. So thats why we do protein & vegetables in our house - although I have to say when Stuart has some tummy upset, old fashioned oatmeal with pumpkin mixed in sure does seem to help settle it. But I definitely appreciate the info and the site for research and for reconfirming that there are very few claims you can trust these days.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks, I was just hoping I wasn't too impulsive! B) I wish that Nikki did well on oatmeal, because I have a LOT of it that I can no longer eat. I'm probably going to take it to the food pantry....


QUOTE (tamizami @ Sep 1 2009, 10:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=824990


> QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Sep 1 2009, 05:34 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=824965





> QUOTE (tamizami @ Sep 1 2009, 07:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=824950





> I am pretty sure that gluten is listed on some dog foods because its a cheap protein? But this is interesting, Suzan, where is the info from? Were there tests done and if so, by whom? Thank you for all the great info you post!!
> 
> EDIT: just found glutenfreefox.com and checking them out.....thanks again![/B]


You know, Tami, maybe I was premature in posting this info as I didn't do the testing myself, but I was concerned about hidden allergies in dogs who are being fed grain-free food. If the food is supposed to be grain-free, it should not contain any kind of wheat/oat/rye/triticale/spelt gluten. In that case, it would not be grain-free.

I don't personally know the people who did the dog food testing. It is a couple of folks who are gluten intolerant/celiac and posted their test findings on one of the many gluten intolerance forums. Most of the products that they test are human foods. I just happened upon an old post that mentioned dog food. For reasons of cross-contamination, people with celiac disease obviously do not want to have any gluten products at all in their homes, so they try to feed their pets gluten free foods, hence the testing. Because food is processed by huge companies in huge manufacturing facilities, cross contamination is a big problem for people with allergies and intolerance. And with Celiac, even the tiniest ppm can cause damage to the intestines to those who are most sensitive. 

As far as I know, there is only one gluten test kit that is for home use. I have to assume that is what they used to test the dog food.


Hope this helps!
[/B][/QUOTE]

Oh I didn't mean it to sound like I didn't trust the findings if you didn't do the testings personally, I was just curious to look into the info.  I'm not aware that we have any gluten intolerance in our house and the primary reason I feed the dogs grain free is that they lack the digestive enzymes to process them and they get more vitamins and minerals from vegetables instead. So thats why we do protein & vegetables in our house - although I have to say when Stuart has some tummy upset, old fashioned oatmeal with pumpkin mixed in sure does seem to help settle it. But I definitely appreciate the info and the site for research and for reconfirming that there are very few claims you can trust these days. 

[/B][/QUOTE]


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

thanks again for the info. Yes, I did know that gluten is part of grain--I just don't get how manufacturers can say it is grain free if it contains gluten and was thinking that somehow gluten can be separated and added thus still making the food "grain free." Otherwise, there's just no way they can make a "grain free" claim and not get their asses sued, lol. They have to know that people, or groups, are going to do independant testing on their food--they have to have some justificaiton for it, that's why I asked if anyone had contacted the manufacturers to see what the explanation is. Let us know if find out any more info!


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

QUOTE (camfan @ Sep 2 2009, 10:42 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=825089


> thanks again for the info. Yes, I did know that gluten is part of grain--I just don't get how manufacturers can say it is grain free if it contains gluten and was thinking that somehow gluten can be separated and added thus still making the food "grain free." Otherwise, there's just no way they can make a "grain free" claim and not get their asses sued, lol. They have to know that people, or groups, are going to do independant testing on their food--they have to have some justificaiton for it, that's why I asked if anyone had contacted the manufacturers to see what the explanation is. Let us know if find out any more info![/B]


I think the only other gluten is rice gluten but it is a completely different chemical make-up. Believe me, there are many CERTIFIED gluten-free products that still contain a tiny residue of gluten, because they are allowed a certain level of ppm, even in gluten-free stuff - just like the fat-free stuff people buy.

IMO it is a matter of: whom do we trust? I think we should trust ourselves, and how we or our dogs react to certain foods, regardless of what it says on the package.


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## camfan (Oct 30, 2006)

QUOTE (Nikki's Mom @ Sep 2 2009, 11:14 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=825096


> IMO it is a matter of: whom do we trust? I think we should trust ourselves, and how we or our dogs react to certain foods, regardless of what it says on the package.[/B]


Yup, I totally agree! that's what I'm learning, too. It's too bad it has to be that way though. Thanks again for your info!!


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