# AKC papers



## Brooks (Jun 27, 2005)

I need some advice on how to handle this 

I bought Tucker on July 7, 2005. The day I bought him his breeder told me that she would be mailing me his AKC registration papers. She wasn't finished with them because she had been in and out of the hospital with her granddaughter and she just didn't have time to do it. 

Well August came and so did Katrina and the woman had serious damage to her house including the room with Tucker's paperwork. Well the papers were lost. But she guaranteed me that AKC was working with her and she would get them to me as soon as she could. That was in January. 

I don't know what to do about this. I feel horrible for her and for the fact that I already called for the papers, but I want them. You guys know the price we pay for our pups. I know it's just a paper, but I paid for it right? I know this sounds insensitive and that's why I need the advice on what to do. 

Do you guys think I should call her again, or give her a little longer?


----------



## Bonnie's Mommie (Mar 2, 2006)

AKC registration isn't worth the paper it's printed on.







I would forget about it and move on, personally. There was a piece not long ago about someone registering a litter of kittens with AKC; they obviously don't mean a thing.

Just my two cents - I wouldn't stress over it. As long as you love your baby and he's healthy, that's what's important.


----------



## jude'n'jools (Apr 6, 2006)

wHAT I LIKED ABOUT HAVING THE PAPERS WAS SEEING MY BOYS PARENTS/GRANDPARENTS/GREAT GRANDPARENTS, TO LOOK AT THEIR KENNEL NAMES WITH SOME BEING QUITE FUNNY. I OFTEN WONDER HOW THESE BREEDERS MAKE UP THESE NAMES.......ONE OF MINES IS CALLED 'BIANCO GIGOLO' AND HE IS WHAT HE IS NAMED, HE REALLY FANCIES HIMSELF AND STRUTS HIS STUFF.

SO YES!! IF I WERE YOU I'D WANT THE PAPERS FOR THAT REASON ALONE!!!!!!!!


----------



## Brooks (Jun 27, 2005)

> wHAT I LIKED ABOUT HAVING THE PAPERS WAS SEEING MY BOYS PARENTS/GRANDPARENTS/GREAT GRANDPARENTS, TO LOOK AT THEIR KENNEL NAMES WITH SOME BEING QUITE FUNNY. I OFTEN WONDER HOW THESE BREEDERS MAKE UP THESE NAMES.......ONE OF MINES IS CALLED 'BIANCO GIGOLO' AND HE IS WHAT HE IS NAMED, HE REALLY FANCIES HIMSELF AND STRUTS HIS STUFF.
> 
> SO YES!! IF I WERE YOU I'D WANT THE PAPERS FOR THAT REASON ALONE!!!!!!!![/B]



i thought about that one too. a while back we had a post on here saying "What if out babies were related?" Well, I'll never know will I!







Sorry I was pouting...


----------



## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=174835
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never bothered to send in Catcher's registration but was able to get his pedigree online at the AKC by putting in each of his parent's names and getting their pedigrees. If your breeder can just give you the full name of Tucker's parents and if possible their AKC number you can get their pedigrees.


----------



## Littlemans Mom (Apr 6, 2005)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=174852
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't send Indy's in either, but I did the same thing with getting his pedigree online. Like Kallie /Catchers Mom said if you can at least get the parents info you can get the pedigree online, that is really nice to have. I figured since Indy was not going to be a show dog and he was neutered I wasn't going to bother to register him. I really enjoyed seeing his family tree and all his relatives, it is nice to have it all on paper to look at







I know what you mean about getting the AKC paperwork though, it is nice to have even if you are not going to register.....so I hope you are able to get them







But if not the pedigree is even better for info. Good luck with the paperwork


----------



## Kisses-4-Princess (Dec 4, 2005)

I feel your frustration.

I mean when I was searching for my pup I made sure she was registered with AKC rather than those other registries- it was more piece of mind for me. So its understandable to want to have the papers. I am sure you love Tucker with or without the papers but its nice to have something if someone promised it to you.


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Here is what you do. YOU call AKC registration and tell them the story. Give them all the info and names and if you have any info on the parents (names). AKC will try to help if they can..and if you have enough info.


----------



## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> AKC registration isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



AKC papers and pedigree is very important to anyone who is a reputable breeder. Without them, it's like making a cake without knowing the ingredients. By having them we can know what is behind the parents of our dogs, and can have some predictibility in what to expect in the litter. Otherwise, it would be a crap shot.
I'm sure there are a number of dogs out there who have false paperwork in their background, but there are also many who do not. To say that AKC paperwork isn't worth the paper it is written on includes the good with the bad. True, it's not fool proof, but it's far better than to work blind in a breeding program. We can have breeding coefficients by using them. DNA has been in place now for several years, and it is helping to weed out some of the bad. In fact, recently, someone who is trying to cause trouble with a breeder tried to insinuate that a certain champion was not from the parents it was reported to be from. A stop was quickly put to this slander when it was learned that DNA was available to prove their statement false. 
AKC paperwork might not mean that much for the puppymillers (except they want that pedigree for $$$) or the back yard breeder who doesn't know what to do with it anyway, but I doubt you will find any reputable breeder who will agree with your statement.


----------



## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

When you purchased your doggie, if the paperwork was part of the deal, you should get the paperwork, otherwise that breeder is going back on the deal made. Boo on that breeder, if she will not get the paperwork to you. Any breeder worth anything would make sure you did get the paperwork and should be proud of the job they have done.

Keep at her and get in touch with the AKC, I sure would.

Good Luck!
Melanie


----------



## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

I find paper work is not that important at all for a pet but the breeder said she will give you the papers and you deserve it. I would ask again!


----------



## MalteseJane (Nov 21, 2004)

I got the AKC registration the same day I bought Alex. They came together. I didn't bother to send them in since I did no want to show or breed him.


----------



## TheButtercup (Mar 3, 2005)

> I got the AKC registration the same day I bought Alex. They came together. I didn't bother to send them in since I did no want to show or breed him.[/B]


yep, we got the registration papers the same day matt picked up buttercup. i just have them in buttercup's "file". i look at them every so often, whenever i get a whim to see "who's who"... one of her relatives pointed me in the direction of a forum that seems to be mostly breeders/show people, i read that forum briefly...then found you guys







(and i saw Charmy over there too, hehe!)

ann marie and the "paper...yum!" buttercup


----------



## bklynlatina (Nov 16, 2005)

> When you purchased your doggie, if the paperwork was part of the deal, you should get the paperwork, otherwise that breeder is going back on the deal made. Boo on that breeder, if she will not get the paperwork to you. Any breeder worth anything would make sure you did get the paperwork and should be proud of the job they have done.
> 
> Keep at her and get in touch with the AKC, I sure would.
> 
> ...



I AGREE. If getting the paperwork was part of the deal when you bought him you have every right to continue to ask for them. I got Chulita's AKC paperwork when I got her as well. Chulita got spayed and will never be a show dog but to me that's not point. This happened to a friend of mine as well....with gettng her paperwork Except the breeder kept giving her a different excuse everytime she called and asked about them. She finally got FED UP and with enough information SHE WAS ABLE to call up AKC herself, give all the information she had and FINALLY get her paperwork.

I would call the breeder tell her that you UNDERSTAND HER SITUATION and that she may not have the time to do it herself. Get all the information you need from her and let her know you have NO PROBLEM contacting AKC and doing it yourself.









*GET THE PAPERWORK, IT'S YOURS AND YOU PAID FOR IT ALONG WITH YOUR PUPPY!!!!*


----------



## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

I never sent Ty's registration in, I considered it a "waste" of $15.00. He is neutered and a pet and with me til the end of his days so I don't care about a registration. I have "papers" for my old english...somewhere................. never looked at them again once they came 10 years ago. If you feel strongly about it call her again but I don't think they are important enough to worry about.


----------



## gattirenata (Jul 28, 2006)

hello everybody... I'm restariting this thread because I have a question, more or less similar...

for those who got the registration paper AFTER getting the pups, how long did it take???

I understand that if you are not showing or breeding your dog you the papers are not that important.... BUT, mine were part of the deal. Mac came described as AKC REGISTERED MALE. so I also want the papers. 
I'm not breeding him, or showing... BUT everyone says a good breeder gives you the papers. So, till now I do think I got him from a good serious breeder. It just makes sense to me that if they don't send the papers that means they are not good. 


But, it's been only a month. so I'm not that worried. I just wnat to know how long it usually takes.


thanks for your help...


----------



## josymir (Aug 23, 2006)

Most breeders are able to give you copies of the parent's pedigrees if that is all you want.

Some breeders have a clause that they don't give papers until the puppy is spayed/neutered. After that if they were promised to you then you should get them.

Josy


----------



## Littlemans Mom (Apr 6, 2005)

> hello everybody... I'm restariting this thread because I have a question, more or less similar...
> 
> for those who got the registration paper AFTER getting the pups, how long did it take???
> 
> ...



It took a couple of months to get Indy's AKC registration form, so I wouldn't worry too much yet. When I got the form, I did what several people here had suggested which was go to the AKC web site to order his Pedigree online. I put in his sire and dames registration #'s, paid the $10.00 and then I got a five generation pedigree online to print out and keep. I really enjoyed being able to see all his relatives







It is so interesting to see all the way back to his great great great grandparents







So many of our babies here have the same relatives some where in their pedigree and I learned about a lot of breeders that I had never heard of until I got the pedigree.


----------



## akaivyleaf (Jul 24, 2006)

I don't ever plan to breed or show my Cocoa either. I want papers that are accurate and show who her parents and grandparents on for genetic reasons. I'm concerned about her health and well being and you can't have any idea how it is to want PROPER papers, and there is no way to obtain them. AKC is worth a whole lot!


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> I don't ever plan to breed or show my Cocoa either. I want papers that are accurate and show who her parents and grandparents on for genetic reasons. I'm concerned about her health and well being and you can't have any idea how it is to want PROPER papers, and there is no way to obtain them. AKC is worth a whole lot![/B]


Actually, even though the AKC is the best registry out there, AKC papers really don't mean a lot. You may find this article interesting:

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/akc.html


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Speaking of AKC - up until maybe 10 yrs ago (or there abouts) most breeders (even exhibitor breeders)
did NOT give AKC papers with the pet pups because there was no place on the papers
to state non breedable dog. We had to rely on a contract for spay/neutering and, of 
course, that was only as good as the paper on which it was written. So..technically
speaking, AKC pet papers mean nothing other than info on your pet's heritage (mom and pop).
Having said that, yes, if the breeder says they will give the papers they should, but if 
something happens (such as Katrina wiping out paperwork) it's really not the end of the
world and your beautiful maltese is still a beautiful maltese. I've never been a stickler for
papers myself as I've known the breeder and her credentials. I don't even send them in to
AKC once I get them..not because of the $15 but simply because I don't need them...and
most likely would pack them away and never look at them again.


----------



## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> Speaking of AKC - up until maybe 10 yrs ago (or there abouts) most breeders (even exhibitor breeders)
> did NOT give AKC papers with the pet pups because there was no place on the papers
> to state non breedable dog. We had to rely on a contract for spay/neutering and, of
> course, that was only as good as the paper on which it was written. So..technically
> ...


 *Dear Brit,

You know I fully respect your opinion, but mine is far different.

As some here know, my Father is a Great Dane breeder. He has since 1969 always given AKC paperwork with every puppy he has sold. 

Also since 1979 when I purchased my first AKC dog (Great Dane) I got paperwork with her. When I got my second AKC dog (Golden Retiever) in 1984 I got AKC paperwork with her and when I got my third AKC dog (Yellow Lab) in 1991 I got paperwork with him. Could it be the differance in small doggies vs larger doggies?

I am making a portfolio for Mr Wookie and look forward highly to having his AKC paperwork soon!

enJOY!
Melanie
*


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

Melanie, could be because he's your father? LOL

Seriously, if a breeder gave papers back before there was limited
registration the owner could breed and register pups
if bred to another AKC dog of same breed. Conscientious breeders
did NOT give AKC papers to insure their pet pups weren't bred or they
waited for proof said pup had been neutered/spayed.

You will still find backyard breeders, etc selling with full registration
today.


----------



## Tina (Aug 6, 2006)

I never owned a registered dog until 1994. I have always gotten the paperwork with the puppy when I bought it. Back then I could care less if I had papers or not. 
I started breeding 6 years ago. As a breeder of Maltese, I register the litter at about 6 to 8 weeks old. Sometimes you loose a puppy in the earlier stages of growing up. It costs $25 plus $2.00 per puppy for AKC to register the litter. If you own both the sire and the dam, you can do it online. You can do it online when someone else owns the sire, AKC e-mails (which you provide) a link to the owner to fill out. I get that paperwork in about 2 weeks. Mailed in I get it in 4 weeks. 
When I sell a puppy I give the registration to the new owner, along with a 5 generation pedigree, and the vaccination record. When the owner gets the registration we have an agreement whether the puppy will be pet or show. To register the puppy the new owner can go online to do it or mail it in. It's $15.00. 
Most pet people for what ever reason don't register their puppy. Breeders get in the habit of not registering the litter until someone wants to register their puppy. If I were buying a puppy and the papers were not readily available it would be a red flag for me. Are they selling for pets only?? Or not a very honest breeder? ONLY the BREEDER of the litter can register the litter. So, if they don't do it there are no papers.
This is what I do as a responsible breeder. 
AKC has now provided the breeder with a way to register a litter that has multiple sires. It's costly. AKC penalizes the breeder $200. Then you can register each sire's puppies as a litter. 
I agree with everyone else that the registration is only as good as the breeders word is. Some breeders do wait to give the paperwork to the new owner when they have an agreement that proof of spay/neuter is completed. It should be understood by both parties that this is the case.


----------



## my baby (Aug 22, 2006)

I know exactly where you are coming from I have exactly the same problem with snoop and it is horrible. I have had snoop since August and have called twice about the papers, first I was told they must have got lost in the post and the second time she said she was ordering new papers.... they never arrived!
And I am now trying to pluck up the courage to phone her again! Although I love snoop whatever and would not be without him, I do feel angry when I think what I paid for him and she is not keeping to her part of the deal.


----------



## kerri <3 maltese tilly (Dec 9, 2006)

> I need some advice on how to handle this
> 
> I bought Tucker on July 7, 2005. The day I bought him his breeder told me that she would be mailing me his AKC registration papers. She wasn't finished with them because she had been in and out of the hospital with her granddaughter and she just didn't have time to do it.
> 
> ...


hi teh exact thing happend to me with my bichion frise i phoned her all the time she said she sent them and soon she blocked our number. we where not happy as we wanted to show him but now he's 3 there no hope in getting them now. 








so when i bought my maltese i made sure it was from a good breeder and the papers where in my hand 

from kerri..xo


----------



## May468 (Dec 5, 2006)

Hello,

OH.. I have had a maltese in my life since I was in the 6th grade.. early 70's.. My 1st maltese was from a Houston, Texas breeder.. with papers. No contract to spay. In fact I'd never heard of this side contract until the last 10 years.. And don't agree with such a contract.

My Second & Third had or have papers.

Course once you've got them. They are not much good unless you plan to show the dog. 

Always put away.. Braggging rights in the family.. LOL...


----------



## chico (Mar 4, 2007)

I am in Louisiana and had the same problem with Chico. Would this "breeder" happen to live in Covington? Sounds like the same elder woman that gave me the run around. She never ended up getting around to getting me the papers. But as alot of people have posted... I am more than fairly unconcerned. Chico is healthy, happy, and most of all HANDSOME! He is a great son to me and I would love him just as much as if I had found him on the street. It is nice to have the lineage of your pup but i truly beleive that your furry little friends health and wellbeing are of far greater importance.


----------



## patsan (Mar 2, 2006)

I got Astro's papers after I sent proof to the breeder that he was neutered. 
I got Comet's and Katie's immediately, but probably because I knew the breeders and they knew me.

I haven't and won't send any of the paperwork in to AKC......they're "pets".


----------



## ice princess (Mar 6, 2007)

I would think that a good and reputable breeder would be happy to provide papers with the sale of a puppy unless a written spay/neuter contract with a date prvided for completion for both parties. I would think the breeder would be proud of the puppies that had been produced and be happy to give papers, even if limited with spay/neuter.
As I have been looking for that special baby there have been many red flags for me. No papers to me says that something isn't quite right. I want AKC because of the DNA and of course the papers. I have no intention of breeding but I also do not want another puppy with a parental history of health problems. I don't want to have to put another dog through a painful surgery so that it can walk normally free of pain. The registration is very important to me. It will let me know if they are breeding for pets or for show. If they are breeding strictly for show ,then I know they are using the best dogs they have. They are not just breeding for money. 
I am still looking for a puppy from a show breeder that is a little more affordable for me.I know this will take a while as the puppies are much more expensive now but I will wait. I know that someday one will come along, and it will have AKC registration papers. If I pay the price then I want everything that should come with it.


----------



## Cosy (Feb 9, 2006)

I finally unpacked Cosy's papers and sent them in after more than a year LOL! I hope they appreciate my extra $35 for late fees!


----------



## bellaratamaltese (May 24, 2006)

I have had dealings with three different breeders and in each situation, have not had a problem with the paperwork accompanying them, and I am very thankful and appreciative of that fact! If there were problems, you can bet I'd be upset about it though! Why would a breeder not follow through with the promised paperwork if they didn't have something to hide? I don't understand that. I sure wouldn't want to deal with any breeder like that! That to me would scream of breeding for profit only.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Ice Princess, have you considered getting a puppy from Tina/Its Magic Maltese? She's a member here and we have gotten to know her very well. I would certainly talk to her about a puppy if I were looking for one.

http://www.itsmagicmaltese.com/

In another post she mentioned several other smaller show breeders with great Maltese that are less expensive. As she so wisely said, the top tier breeders also have huge expenses, hence the big price tags for their puppies.


----------



## CathyB (Mar 10, 2007)

> Have you considered getting a puppy from Tina/Its Magic Maltese? She's a member here and we have gotten to know her very well. I would certainly talk to her about a puppy if I were looking for one.
> 
> http://www.itsmagicmaltese.com/
> 
> In another post she mentioned several other smaller show breeders with great Maltese that are less expensive. As she so wisely said, the top tier breeders also have huge expenses, hence the big price tags for their puppies.[/B]










I would think that AKC will do all they can to help replace any paper work she might have lost due to Katrina flooding.







I think the lady should get started on that right away. If you were told your puppy was a AKC registered dog then you have every right to expect papers. I hope it all works out for you I am sure it doesn't change how you feel about your baby







Just that you didn't get everything you feel you were promised.


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=350642
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry - that was confusing! I posted that in response to Ice Princess' post expecting it to be next, but two posts ended up inbetween!

That's why it's always important to quote to post you are responding to, huh?


----------



## angela923 (Nov 24, 2005)

What is the cost for a breeder to sell buyers registered dogs? I was told by my breeder that she didn't think they were important if I just wanted to keep Pudding as a pet and it would cost me $200 extra for the papers!







Obviously, I said I didn't need them... I know that another member of this forum has a puppy from her as well, and we both feel that she is responsible with her pups.. But what's this all about? I read from one of your posts that it was $25 dollars to register???


----------



## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

Which registry does Pudding's breeder register her puppies with? If its the American Kennel Club, you should have recieved an application to register Pudding when you purchased him. The fee is $20, not $200.

There are other registries that will register anything, even puppies that aren't purebred that are used by puppy mills and backyard breeders. They aren't worth even the small fee because they don't mean anything.

They certainly aren't worth $200! Did you see the pedigrees of the parents before you purchased Pudding? Your breeder should have shown them to before you commited to buying him.


----------



## CloudClan (Jan 31, 2007)

> > index.php?act=findpost&pid=174822
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is another use I can think of. The papers do not mean much unless you are a breeder or you plan to show your dog in any number of AKC companion events like agility, obedience, rally-obedience, tracking. Or, even if you don't plan to now, you may find it useful to have the papers in case you change your mind in the future. 

I never used Cloud's papers until he was 10 years old.(Though I had them in hand right away). I never would have expected to use them, but I got involved with training for obedience and Cloud ended up competing for an obedience title and earning his CD when he was 12. 

The papers still are not absolutely necessary. You can participate in these events with an ILP (indefinate listing privledge), but that requires paying a fee and sending in evidence that your animal is in fact a purebreed.


----------



## angela923 (Nov 24, 2005)

> Which registry does Pudding's breeder register her puppies with? If its the American Kennel Club, you should have recieved an application to register Pudding when you purchased him. The fee is $20, not $200.
> 
> There are other registries that will register anything, even puppies that aren't purebred that are used by puppy mills and backyard breeders. They aren't worth even the small fee because they don't mean anything.
> 
> They certainly aren't worth $200! Did you see the pedigrees of the parents before you purchased Pudding? Your breeder should have shown them to before you commited to buying him.[/B]


I believe it's the CKC my breeder was talking about. She is even advertised on the dogsincanada.com website as a registered breeder. I did not see the actual pedigree on paper but she did tell me about his line. Is this bad?







I should have asked for it!


----------



## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> What is the cost for a breeder to sell buyers registered dogs? I was told by my breeder that she didn't think they were important if I just wanted to keep Pudding as a pet and it would cost me $200 extra for the papers!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The fee to register a litter is $25.00 plus $2.00 for each additonal puppy. The cost to the new pet owner is now $20.00. 

I have seen a number of questionable breeders who will sell full AKC registration (instead of limited) for an additonal $200 or something in that range. 

I hold papers on dogs until proof of spay/neuter if I don't know the person well (like Jacki who got hers when she got Sprout). I have had one situation where someone wrote some nasty stuff about my not providing papers. I learned they had lied to me, and they wanted to breed the dog. I still have their papers because they did not provide that proof. This was several years ago, and I've gotten more experienced with asking questions, but it does happen. Any dog that is sold with full registration (for show/breeding) has papers with it at the time it is placed with the new owner. If a breeder is going to withhold papers until proof of spay/neuter is done, this must be written in the contract.


----------



## MissMelanie (Feb 13, 2006)

> I finally unpacked Cosy's papers and sent them in after more than a year LOL! I hope they appreciate my extra $35 for late fees![/B]


 








































YEAH for Cosy!












Melanie


----------



## Mollys humans (Apr 16, 2007)

While it is a family pet......it was also a business deal. You deserve to get what you paid for or your compensation returned.


----------



## Vanitysmom (Jun 9, 2005)

I thought I would jump in here (I hope none of you mind) and explain how most reputable show breeders issue their registration papers to their pet people. 

First there is a contract which is to protect both the buyer and the seller. In this contract, there normally is the name of the sire and the dam of the puppy/dog. Also in this contract is the stipulations as to whether the puppy will be a pet with a spay/neuter agreement or a show puppy. When the puppy is to be placed with a spay/neuter agreement, the contract states that the papers will be supplied once proof of the spay/neuter has been received by the breeder from the veterinarian doing the procedure. 

When I place a "pet" puppy, I will do everything I can to assure that the puppy is a pet and spending its life on someone's lap or in their bed...........not some cage being bred to death. 

At no time will a reputable breeder sell you a dog for one price and the papers for another price. In fact, if I remember correctly, the AKC actually has rules and regulations against this practice.

I hope this helps.


----------

