# New puppy from a bad breeder?



## swtbee8

I just received a puppy yesterday. The day I got her, she doesn't respond to us (humans) or the noises we make. She runs and hides from us. She crouches down and shakes when we try to pet us.

I just came back from the vet today, and guess what, she has lots of fleas. My husband thinks this breeder we got the puppy from is operating a puppy mill or something and that the puppy has been neglected (she's used to humans & fears us).

She's about 12 weeks. 

I know it takes awhile for puppies to get used to us. But I had 2 other maltese puppies before, and true, they would seek their crate for privacy/peace/relax from all that's happening... but they would play with us (play chase with us, follow us a bit, or AT LEAST look up at us when we call them in response to noise).

What do you think? I think she's a disreputable breeder. My husband wants to return her but I'm scared if I do, she'll go back to being abused or neglected. I mean who would let their puppies have fleas? It's those who leave their dogs outside. My other 2 puppies never had fleas!

I'm upset and dissatisfied... this isn't what I had expected. (The breeder's references were good too, but now that I think about it, maybe she rigged that?)


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## Furbaby's Mommie

Doesn't sound good! Where did you get her?


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## swtbee8

> Doesn't sound good! Where did you get her?[/B]


We got her online from Tulsa, OK. When we talked to the lady, she was so sweet, nice. She said the puppy is healthy, have a clean face, up to date with vaccinations, is microchipped... she even gave me advice for my other dogs. She seems to know what she's talking about, so I thought she's okay. This is my first buying a dog online, and probably my last! No more being trusty to others... gotta check in person.


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## Furbaby's Mommie

Does she have a website of her own, or is it through another site?


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## Bonnie's Mommie

If you've had other dogs you probably already know this, but if she's skittish around you, just go slow with her, let her come to you. I'm sorry that your experience was so bad. We have to be so careful these days, people are not always what they seem. They'll tell you or say anything to make a sale. Just give her lots of love and she'll come around. What's her name? Can you post a picture of her?


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## puppymom

I am sorry you have an unhealthy puppy. 

Sounds like you didn't do your homework. Online puppies are a risk at best. All online breeders "know" what they are talking about, that is part of the scam. There is nothing wrong with connecting with a breeder on the internet but what follows should be talking to the breeder, visiting the breeder, if not possible to visit check references and always know the pedigree. 

Many good and reputable breeders have Websites and connect with buyers on line. But it is up to the buyer to do their homework. 

I do hope you are able to get care for the pup and bring her around


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## Ladysmom

Oklahoma is one of the top three puppy mill states. If you feel comfortable posting your breeder's name, perhaps we can help you determine if your breeder was a good one or not. If not, if you'd like to pm me, I can check to see if she's licensed with the USDA for you and check her out a bit with the Better Business Bureau, etc..

If it turns out she is from a mill, I tend to agree with your husband. This puppy could have socialization problems for life, not to mention health issues that could run up huge bills and break your heart.

What sort of guarentee did you get?


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## Cosy

I have to agree with your husband if this is what is going on. Keeping her will only keep the money in the pocket of the breeder to help enable her to keep on doing what she is doing and hurting more dogs.

This is one of the most difficult things a consumer has to do but it is for the sake of the breed. Don't let these type of breeders get away with it.


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## swtbee8

> Oklahoma is one of the top three puppy mill states. If you feel comfortable posting your breeder's name, perhaps we can help you determine if your breeder was a good one or not. If not, if you'd like to pm me, I can check to see if she's licensed with the USDA for you and check her out a bit with the Better Business Bureau, etc..
> 
> If it turns out she is from a mill, I tend to agree with your husband. This puppy could have socialization problems for life, not to mention health issues that could run up huge bills and break your heart.
> 
> What sort of guarentee did you get?[/B]


Thanks. we got her here: http://www.adorablepals.com/, and she was also listed at nextdaypals.com.






> I am sorry you have an unhealthy puppy.
> 
> Sounds like you didn't do your homework. Online puppies are a risk at best. All online breeders "know" what they are talking about, that is part of the scam. There is nothing wrong with connecting with a breeder on the internet but what follows should be talking to the breeder, visiting the breeder, if not possible to visit check references and always know the pedigree.
> 
> Many good and reputable breeders have Websites and connect with buyers on line. But it is up to the buyer to do their homework.
> 
> I do hope you are able to get care for the pup and bring her around[/B]


Yeah, I guess I didn't check thorough enough. I talked to breeder and got references from her... they all said good things. The thing with references is it's all from those who had good experiences with her... the list most probably omitted negative ones. I thought she's credible because she claims to breed those with championship bloodlines so I thought she's somebody who breeds for the betterment of the breed... *sigh*


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## Guest

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=388926
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> Oklahoma is one of the top three puppy mill states. If you feel comfortable posting your breeder's name, perhaps we can help you determine if your breeder was a good one or not. If not, if you'd like to pm me, I can check to see if she's licensed with the USDA for you and check her out a bit with the Better Business Bureau, etc..
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> If it turns out she is from a mill, I tend to agree with your husband. This puppy could have socialization problems for life, not to mention health issues that could run up huge bills and break your heart.
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> What sort of guarentee did you get?[/B]
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> Click to expand...
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> Thanks. we got her here: http://www.adorablepals.com/, and she was also listed at nextdaypals.com.
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Have you contacted her about the fleas? According to a statement on her own website: All of our puppies are guaranteed to be in good health and free from visible signs of infection, contagious or communicable diseases when purchased.

How was it her vet missed a serious case of the fleas? I am so sorry this happened to you and very glad you posted her name so others can be informed. It sounds like she may have had so little contact with people that she doesn't trust humans.


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## swtbee8

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=388972
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> Oklahoma is one of the top three puppy mill states. If you feel comfortable posting your breeder's name, perhaps we can help you determine if your breeder was a good one or not. If not, if you'd like to pm me, I can check to see if she's licensed with the USDA for you and check her out a bit with the Better Business Bureau, etc..
> 
> If it turns out she is from a mill, I tend to agree with your husband. This puppy could have socialization problems for life, not to mention health issues that could run up huge bills and break your heart.
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> What sort of guarentee did you get?[/B]
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> Thanks. we got her here: http://www.adorablepals.com/, and she was also listed at nextdaypals.com.
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> Have you contacted her about the fleas? According to a statement on her own website: All of our puppies are guaranteed to be in good health and free from visible signs of infection, contagious or communicable diseases when purchased.
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> How was it her vet missed a serious case of the fleas? I am so sorry this happened to you and very glad you posted her name so others can be informed. It sounds like she may have had so little contact with people that she doesn't trust humans.
> [/B]
Click to expand...

I should've seen the red flags when it said no refund/credit....

Are fleas "visible signs of infection, contagious or communicable diseases when purchased"?


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## Cosy

That's not much of a guarantee, considering all their exceptions. I noticed you cannot return the dog for a refund. I think I would make certain you take your husband with you if you return the pup. 



Yes, fleas are visible signs. I would take her back TODAY. 24 hours should allow a refund. Those dogs are not show dogs on her site. In most pedigrees you will find a champion or two but it doesn't mean

they are wellbred dogs because of the champion.


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## Ladysmom

She may have claimed to breed from championship lines, but did you ever see a pedigree? She doesn't appear to be a show breeder so I doubt she has champions. She may have some dogs with champions way back, but most purebred dogs do. Many puppy mill dogs have champions in their backgrounds.

As far as references go, if your friend or people on this forum referred her, it would be different. If she provided erferences, who knows who the people could be? They could be her relatives.

Since she's selling directly to the consumer, she may be exempt from USDA regulations. I don't know her name, but check this list for her under the state of Oklahoma.

http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/ListA2006.pdf

What state are you from? Puppy lemon laws may protect you.

I know it's hard to think what would happen to this puppy if you sent her back, but as long as this woman keeps making money, she will continue to breed this type of puppy and rip the consumer off.


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## Guest

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> Oklahoma is one of the top three puppy mill states. If you feel comfortable posting your breeder's name, perhaps we can help you determine if your breeder was a good one or not. If not, if you'd like to pm me, I can check to see if she's licensed with the USDA for you and check her out a bit with the Better Business Bureau, etc..
> 
> If it turns out she is from a mill, I tend to agree with your husband. This puppy could have socialization problems for life, not to mention health issues that could run up huge bills and break your heart.
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> What sort of guarentee did you get?[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks. we got her here: http://www.adorablepals.com/, and she was also listed at nextdaypals.com.
> [/B]
Click to expand...


Have you contacted her about the fleas? According to a statement on her own website: All of our puppies are guaranteed to be in good health and free from visible signs of infection, contagious or communicable diseases when purchased.

How was it her vet missed a serious case of the fleas? I am so sorry this happened to you and very glad you posted her name so others can be informed. It sounds like she may have had so little contact with people that she doesn't trust humans.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I should've seen the red flags when it said no refund/credit....

Are fleas "visible signs of infection, contagious or communicable diseases when purchased"?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Honestly I don't know, but seriously, how could a reputable vet miss something like that? You know I hate to say this but I've been looking around for a maltese and the ones that seem to have a need to espouse their religious convictions on their about me pages makes me click my back button. I have religious convictions but when purchasing a dog I want to see concrete facts, pedigrees, vets number, their breeder friends, whether they show dogs, pictures of the parent dogs, etc. Its unfortunate but I think there are only a handful of reputable people on next day pets.


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## k/c mom

I am so very sorry you are going through this. What should be a happy time has turned in to one of stress and heartache. Thank you so much for sharing the name of the breeder. Some day an SM member may do a search on the name and see your post and be spared what you are going through.

Here are some good links on how to evaluate a breeder:
Questions to ask breeders and things to look for

Buying a puppy

I'm putting these names here again to help someone find it when searching.
Adorable Pals: adorablepals.com
Next Day Pals: nextdaypals.com


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## msmagnolia

I am so sorry that this has happened to you. We're glad that you found this website and if you have to keep her we can help you and if you can send her back you can get lots of info about purchasing a healthy puppy from a reputable breeder. 

Is there a possibility she doesn't hear? If so then that would be grounds for return, wouldn't it.

I'm not suggesting that you should keep her, because you don't want to fund puppymills, but you have to feel sorry for this puppy and all the others out there who are in this terrible situation.........


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## Ladysmom

[/QUOTE]

Honestly I don't know, but seriously, how could a reputable vet miss something like that? You know I hate to say this but I've been looking around for a maltese and the ones that seem to have a need to espouse their religious convictions on their about me pages makes me click my back button. I have religious convictions but when purchasing a dog I want to see concrete facts, pedigrees, vets number, their breeder friends, whether they show dogs, pictures of the parent dogs, etc. Its unfortunate but I think there are only a handful of reputable people on next day pets.
[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, many of the puppy millers and scammers use religion to sell their puppies. They think it makes them seem more credible and a lot of people fall for it.

You say you wanted to see pedigrees and to know whether or not they show dogs. Did I miss something? I don't see where your breeder gave information about showing or pedigrees on her website. Did she give you that information separately? Did she claim to show her dogs?

What did you vet say about the puppy's overall condition besides the fleas? Unfortunately, unless the puppy is gravely ill now, it's hard to get a refund based on a disease she may get in the future because of poor genetics. You say she was unresponsive...did your vet check her hearing? Did her check her for an open fontenal?

I am so sorry you are in this situation.

What state are you in? I'll look up the puppy lemon laws for you.


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## Ladysmom

I just looked at your breeder's website again and she is in Arkansas, not Oklahoma. I rechecked the USDA list, the so-called "puppy mill" list and she is on it under her name, Murna Scott.

http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/ListA2006.pdf

You can find out more about the USDA and what that list means here:

http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/USDA.html


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## swtbee8

Honestly I don't know, but seriously, how could a reputable vet miss something like that? You know I hate to say this but I've been looking around for a maltese and the ones that seem to have a need to espouse their religious convictions on their about me pages makes me click my back button. I have religious convictions but when purchasing a dog I want to see concrete facts, pedigrees, vets number, their breeder friends, whether they show dogs, pictures of the parent dogs, etc. Its unfortunate but I think there are only a handful of reputable people on next day pets.
[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, many of the puppy millers and scammers use religion to sell their puppies. They think it makes them seem more credible and a lot of people fall for it.

You say you wanted to see pedigrees and to know whether or not they show dogs. Did I miss something? I don't see where your breeder gave information about showing or pedigrees on her website. Did she give you that information separately? Did she claim to show her dogs?

What did you vet say about the puppy's overall condition besides the fleas? Unfortunately, unless the puppy is gravely ill now, it's hard to get a refund based on a disease she may get in the future because of poor genetics. You say she was unresponsive...did your vet check her hearing? Did her check her for an open fontenal?

I am so sorry you are in this situation.

What state are you in? I'll look up the puppy lemon laws for you.
[/QUOTE]

The vet checked her up, & says she's healthy, the only problem is fleas.

I'm in CA. I honestly don't think i'll get my money back, but i don't mind keeping her. She's sweet, and I can't help thinking how they'll neglect her if she goes back anyways. She'll have a better life here right? I'll just give the lady a piece of my mind if anything.


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## Ladysmom

Did you see my last post? I think I posted it just as you were responding. I did find the breeder, Murna Scott, on the USDA "puppy mill" list with a kennel name of T & M Bulldogs. Who knows how many breeds she is breeding there?

California does have puppy lemon laws, but they only protect you if this puppy gets really sick in the next 15 days.

http://www.dogplay.com/Breeding/lemonlaw.html

I'm sure your vet only did a basic exam so he really can't tell that much about the true health of this puppy. I'd recommend you have a bile acids test done on her asap to check her liver function. Liver disease and shunts are common in this breed and treatment and surgery can run into the thousands. Also have him check her knees. Again, luxating patellas are commom in this breed and surgery for only one knee can run several thousand dollars.

Unfortunately, puppy mill puppies can carry all sorts of genetic "time bombs" that may not go off for years. There aren't tests for a lot of genetic diseases, like epilepsy and diabetes, like my Lady has. She was a healthy dog for nearly five years. I spend $200 on medications alone for her every month. My yearly vet bills just to monitor her various conditions are high, plus we usually have at least one near $1000 episode a year.

I am just so sorry this has turned out so terribly for you.


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## Cosy

> Honestly I don't know, but seriously, how could a reputable vet miss something like that? You know I hate to say this but I've been looking around for a maltese and the ones that seem to have a need to espouse their religious convictions on their about me pages makes me click my back button. I have religious convictions but when purchasing a dog I want to see concrete facts, pedigrees, vets number, their breeder friends, whether they show dogs, pictures of the parent dogs, etc. Its unfortunate but I think there are only a handful of reputable people on next day pets.


Unfortunately, many of the puppy millers and scammers use religion to sell their puppies. They think it makes them seem more credible and a lot of people fall for it.

You say you wanted to see pedigrees and to know whether or not they show dogs. Did I miss something? I don't see where your breeder gave information about showing or pedigrees on her website. Did she give you that information separately? Did she claim to show her dogs?

What did you vet say about the puppy's overall condition besides the fleas? Unfortunately, unless the puppy is gravely ill now, it's hard to get a refund based on a disease she may get in the future because of poor genetics. You say she was unresponsive...did your vet check her hearing? Did her check her for an open fontenal?

I am so sorry you are in this situation.

What state are you in? I'll look up the puppy lemon laws for you.
[/QUOTE]

The vet checked her up, & says she's healthy, the only problem is fleas.

I'm in CA. I honestly don't think i'll get my money back, but i don't mind keeping her. She's sweet, and I can't help thinking how they'll neglect her if she goes back anyways. She'll have a better life here right? I'll just give the lady a piece of my mind if anything. 
[/QUOTE] 



The point is, if you keep her you further the suffering of dogs kept in little pens, sometimes multiple dogs to a pen just for breeding another pup like yours. Now that you know they are on the list, why keep her?


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## totallytotontuffy

I just came home from the Northcentral Maltese Rescue Org. Picnic so maybe my brain is a bit like mush right now. I can see both perspectives here. I just wonder if there is some kind of happy medium. Such as forcing the woman to provide partial reimbursement and keep the puppy, see how it goes, and if she can't be socialized or has significant health issues, surrender the puppy to Maltese Rescue to prevent the puppy from having to go back to those conditions. Just a thought. 

I took some pictures of the costume contest at the picnic, I'll post them later on.

Debbie


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## KandiMaltese

I see both viewpoints as well! But to support a puppy mill isn't great. However, what's done is done also. I would call her and tell her I saw her name on a Puppy Mill list ..and tell her how shocked you are and how you don't plan on supporting that. Perhaps she will offer a refund or partial refund. If not, you can tell her you won't be buying from her again and you will be letting others know that she is on that list and not a 
reputable breeder. 

Enjoy your puppy in the meantime.

Andrea


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## Ladysmom

The bottomline is that you signed a contract agreeing to the terms of no refund unless the puppy had a life threatening illness. Unfortunately, just because you've since found out that this breeder is really a puppy mill doesn't void your contract. 

It's hard lesson to learn, but it's buyer beware when buying a puppy from an internet website. It's a good starting point as top knotch breeders also have websites, but a potential buyer should check the breeder out before signing the contract and accepting the puppy. She should check the USDA list, Better Business Bureau, see pedigrees, etc. as part of the whole screening process. As far as references go, trust only those breeders who are referred by the American Maltese Asscociation, personal friends, etc. or an independent forum like this unless you can visit the breeder yourself. Anyone can put anything on a website or have their Aunt Millie be a reference for them.

I'd really suggest getting, at the very least, a bile acids test done on this puppy immediately. It is very inexpensive and can save you thousands of dollars and a lot of heartache in the future.

Just to clear something up (and hopefully 3maltmom can jump in here) rescue organizations aren't dumping grounds for sick, mentally unsound dogs. They are nonprofit and depend on donations and volunteers and simply can't take in every dog. Most won't take a biter, for instance, because of liability. The same thing goes for dogs needing expensive vet care. Sometimes they have to be turned away. 

A rescue group should not be a back up plan.


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## Andrea&Luci

Aww...it's a difficult situation. I honestly don't know what I would do. I would DEFINITELY try to talk to the person about the fleas and also, like LadysMom said, get her liver enzymes checked out because this might rule out any problems that she could have lurking in her body already, make sure they check the patellas and everything, because that could also be a problem.... and also her hearing. If she is a baby it could be that she is scared and not used to her new surroundings and that is why she is running away from you guys, she'll warm up i am sure.... BUT...I don't know if I could give the puppy back.. I mean, i absolutely 100% DO NOT support BBY, or puppy mills (obviously), but it would be hard for me to give the puppy back to her knowing that she already has fleas and who knows what kind of life she would have back with this person....good luck in your decision making.


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## starry

> I see both viewpoints as well! But to support a puppy mill isn't great. However, what's done is done also. I would call her and tell her I saw her name on a Puppy Mill list ..and tell her how shocked you are and how you don't plan on supporting that. Perhaps she will offer a refund or partial refund. If not, you can tell her you won't be buying from her again and you will be letting others know that she is on that list and not a
> reputable breeder.
> 
> Enjoy your puppy in the meantime.
> 
> Andrea[/B]


I agree...
Also I pm'd you..


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## I found nemo

I'm sorry also. I know what the right thing to do would be to return him but I don't think I could get my heart to agree








Good Luck,
Andrea


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## puppymom

I agree with Ladys Mom, since the contract states no refund what purpose would returning the puppy have? The breeder would most likely sell it again and make double the profit. You have already supported a puppy mill by paying for the dog don't compound the error by allowing her to make further profit. I would definately contact the breeder and let her know what the problems are. I would also file a complaint with what ever "governing body" over see livestock and animals in your state. 

As far as your pup goes, like MANY OF US (I too am in that group) you made an unwise purchase and now you must deal with the consequences. My own fluff butt is from a back yard breeder, not as bad as yours, but with genetic problems that have so far cost me over $4000. I could not love my guy more if he was perfect but believe me I wish I had done my homework, spent a little more money and gotten a puppy from a reputable breeder. 

A rescue group should be an absolute last resort, as said before they are not dumping grounds for sick dogs. When you take a puppy into your home you are assuming responsibility for the car of that puppy FOR LIFE, it's life. NOTHING makes me angrier than people who get a pup on a whim and at the first sign of trouble "turn it over".


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## carrie

> I agree with Ladys Mom, since the contract states no refund what purpose would returning the puppy have? The breeder would most likely sell it again and make double the profit. You have already supported a puppy mill by paying for the dog don't compound the error by allowing her to make further profit. I would definately contact the breeder and let her know what the problems are. I would also file a complaint with what ever "governing body" over see livestock and animals in your state.
> 
> As far as your pup goes, like MANY OF US (I too am in that group) you made an unwise purchase and now you must deal with the consequences. My own fluff butt is from a back yard breeder, not as bad as yours, but with genetic problems that have so far cost me over $4000. I could not love my guy more if he was perfect but believe me I wish I had done my homework, spent a little more money and gotten a puppy from a reputable breeder.
> 
> A rescue group should be an absolute last resort, as said before they are not dumping grounds for sick dogs. When you take a puppy into your home you are assuming responsibility for the car of that puppy FOR LIFE, it's life. NOTHING makes me angrier than people who get a pup on a whim and at the first sign of trouble "turn it over".[/B]


i can't agree more. 

the purchase was already made, there's no sense in giving the puppy back, losing the money and then allowing the miller to sell it once again for profit. what, exactly, would that accomplish?

yes, poorly bred dogs do have a tendency to have health issues, as marj pointed out, genetic time bombs that creep up later in life. 
you don't know if your dog will even get sick, but in the mean time you should prepare yourself for anything that may arise. the best thing you can do is get some preventative testing done and keep your puppy as healthy as possible....that includes tender loving care. 

massimo didn't come from the best of circumstances and unfortunately has genetic health issues. 
i could never imagine letting anyone else care for him (as they may not offer him the quality of care that i would). after all, he's my responsibility. and i will give him the best care i can offer.


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## Boobookit

*I agree with LadysMom once again and this is a hard one.....I didn't know better and got my Pacino from a BYB. Thankfully he is now 2 years old and so far healthy as a horse and doing wonderful. I was lucky.*

*My second furbutt, Ralphie, I got from Metropolitan Maltese Rescue (which, because I was so impressed with them, I joined them!) and he is also wonderful but again, I know his background, what breeder he came from and so on. He was taken care of by his original owners (somewhat) but abused by their young children.*

*My point is, there is no turning back now, you have the pup and there are no refunds. This was a life lesson that I am sure you won't make again. Perhaps your baby is just scared from the trip, new enviroment, etc. and will come around. Discipline, love and attention is what this puppy needs right now and hopefully there will not be any health issues. I certainly would NOT give this baby back to this so called breeder and I would definitely report her to anyone that you can report her to. I think as far as socialization between your and your other furbabies this little one will learn the ropes, fleas are easily taken care of, other health issues are a different story. If you think that you can't handle it then try to find a good forever home but as LadysMom said, dropping off at a rescue is not really the answer. I now see what goes on at the rescues (all good) and how some really needy, abused furbutts get dumped and it just breaks my heart. Rescue people are wonderful people and they do what they can, there are so many needy furbabies out there.*

*Go after the breeder for a partial refund, tell her you are reporting her and hope for the best. Meanwhile, enjoy your new furbaby and good luck.*

*Marie & the Boys*


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## totallytotontuffy

> A rescue group should be an absolute last resort, as said before they are not dumping grounds for sick dogs. When you take a puppy into your home you are assuming responsibility for the car of that puppy FOR LIFE, it's life. NOTHING makes me angrier than people who get a pup on a whim and at the first sign of trouble "turn it over".[/B]


I agree that rescue groups are not dumping grounds and that people SHOULD assume responsibility for their dogs for life and NOT turn a dog over at the first sign of trouble. Breeders SHOULD breed for the betterment of the breed and puppymills SHOULD NOT exist. BUT the sad fact is that people do surrender dogs to rescue for less than honorable reasons, and more unethical breeders exist than not. 

If we lived in a perfect world, dogs that are surrendered to rescue would only occur in extraordinary circumstances. The only reason that I brought up surrendering the dog to rescue was to prevent the dog from going back to the horrific conditions of a puppymill. Personally, I strongly believe in assuming responsibilty for my dogs for life but I recognize that it is not a perfect world and not everyone maintains that viewpoint.


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## swtbee8

> I just received a puppy yesterday. The day I got her, she doesn't respond to us (humans) or the noises we make. She runs and hides from us. She crouches down and shakes when we try to pet us.
> 
> I just came back from the vet today, and guess what, she has lots of fleas. My husband thinks this breeder we got the puppy from is operating a puppy mill or something and that the puppy has been neglected (she's used to humans & fears us).
> 
> She's about 12 weeks.
> 
> I know it takes awhile for puppies to get used to us. But I had 2 other maltese puppies before, and true, they would seek their crate for privacy/peace/relax from all that's happening... but they would play with us (play chase with us, follow us a bit, or AT LEAST look up at us when we call them in response to noise).
> 
> What do you think? I think she's a disreputable breeder. My husband wants to return her but I'm scared if I do, she'll go back to being abused or neglected. I mean who would let their puppies have fleas? It's those who leave their dogs outside. My other 2 puppies never had fleas!
> 
> I'm upset and dissatisfied... this isn't what I had expected. (The breeder's references were good too, but now that I think about it, maybe she rigged that?)[/B]


Hi Everybody,

Thank you for all your comments and support. I have decided to keep the puppy. Her life would be better off staying here... and of course, we do not want the breeder to make double profits. I'm so sorry that I didn't do my homework, but what's done is done. The puppy is a sweet little girl. She is an innocent bystander. I don't want to return her like a merchandise, a 'thing.' I will post up pictures as soon as she's feeling better (the vet just gave her a set of puppy shots). Thanks you guys!


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## starry

I agree about the double profits! I didn't even think about that and how it would be double supporting her!








I can't wait to see pics of your new "rescue







".


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## Ladysmom

Bless your heart. You may be surprised how far she comes with love and security. Yes, do post pictures!


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## HappyB

I am so sorry you have had such a bad experience with obtaining your puppy. I applaude you for your love and concern for it, and for the dedication to make the best of the situation.

I hope that your vet provided you with a Capstar for the pup to take care of the immediate problem, as well as appropriate medication to treat for tape worms. Dogs get tapeworms from fleas. I see that on the breeder's site dogs are up to date on shots. I do wonder why additional shots were given so soon after the pup arrived. Over vaccinating can be a serious issues also. 

While I hope you never have an issue with fleas again, I thought I would share some things from another site. During the past day or so, there has been a thread running on fleas in breeder's pups. This came about because a breeder did not treat her pregnant dog for fleas, and the pups now have them. Some interesting information was put out that I will share:

Cedar is a natural repellent. Some find that using a cedar pillow keeps fleas at bay. I've seen beds such as this advertised in various pet catalogues.

One breeder said that she removed fleas from a pup by dipping a cotton ball in alcohol and dabbing it on the pup.

Another breeder said she removed fleas from pups by taking a chap stick and dabbing it on the fleas. She then scraped the end of the chap stick into a dish of soapy water to kill then.

Good luck with your new baby. I look forward to seeing pictures.


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## gatiger40

> Bless your heart. You may be surprised how far she comes with love and security. Yes, do post pictures![/B]



Wow am I glad I found this site. The place where you got her was on my list of searches for a new maltese. 

I am getting a new little girl in two weeks from a site called "Winbornecreek" in Monroe,LA. Can anyone give me any resorces on how to check this site out? I have put down a deposit and talked with the owner Kathy Rayborne. She seems very nice and answered all my questions, but I am new to all this and after reading this site( which I should have done first), I'm worried. 

Thanks,
Stephanie


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## I found nemo

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=389365
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> Bless your heart. You may be surprised how far she comes with love and security. Yes, do post pictures![/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow am I glad I found this site. The place where you got her was on my list of searches for a new maltese.
> 
> I am getting a new little girl in two weeks from a site called "Winbornecreek" in Monroe,LA. Can anyone give me any resorces on how to check this site out? I have put down a deposit and talked with the owner Kathy Rayborne. She seems very nice and answered all my questions, but I am new to all this and after reading this site( which I should have done first), I'm worried.
> 
> Thanks,
> Stephanie
> [/B]
Click to expand...

Hi Stephanie,
Her website doesn't look reputable to me







Let the experts come into the thread and say more..
Andrea


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## KandiMaltese

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=389365
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> Bless your heart. You may be surprised how far she comes with love and security. Yes, do post pictures![/B]
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> 
> 
> Wow am I glad I found this site. The place where you got her was on my list of searches for a new maltese.
> 
> I am getting a new little girl in two weeks from a site called "Winbornecreek" in Monroe,LA. Can anyone give me any resorces on how to check this site out? I have put down a deposit and talked with the owner Kathy Rayborne. She seems very nice and answered all my questions, but I am new to all this and after reading this site( which I should have done first), I'm worried.
> 
> Thanks,
> Stephanie
> [/B]
Click to expand...

If it were me, and just me..I am not sure I would go through with purchasing the puppy from these people. They have a few red flags up. #1 red flag, is that they breed several breeds. I wish you the best in whatever puppy you take. There are a lot of people here to help you with questions and give you advice.

Andrea


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## carrie

> Wow am I glad I found this site. The place where you got her was on my list of searches for a new maltese.
> 
> I am getting a new little girl in two weeks from a site called "Winbornecreek" in Monroe,LA. Can anyone give me any resorces on how to check this site out? I have put down a deposit and talked with the owner Kathy Rayborne. She seems very nice and answered all my questions, but I am new to all this and after reading this site( which I should have done first), I'm worried.
> 
> Thanks,
> Stephanie[/B]


i do not feel that is a reputable breeder in any way. they do not breed to better the breed nor even breed to the standard.
i definitely wouldn't suggest purchasing from that site.

a parti colored yorkie?? i'm not very well versed in the yorkie breed standard, but i'm pretty sure "parti" is not an accepted color.

click here and scroll down to see "cash" their parti colored yorkie.


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## msmagnolia

Hi Stephanie, You might want to start a new thread to get more attention to your question about the kennel in Monroe. I hope you get answers that will help you with your decision. Sadly there are seemingly nice people who run less than reputable operations. For goodness sakes the Amish are big puppymill breeders. You can't go by nice and you can't go by religious. I hope you'll get more responses to help you!


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## Ladysmom

Unfortunately, I agree with the others. This breeder is not someone I would buy a puppy from. 

http://www.winbornecreek.com/index.html

Along with what the others have pointed out, this breeder offers you the option of no papers or for a higher price, CKC papers. No reptuable breeder of purebred Maltese would do that. Don't be fooled by the so-called "papers" she offers. Notice that they are not from the American kennel Club "AKC". The CKC is the Continental Kennel Club and one of the registries that sprang up when the AKC started requiring dna testing of sires. All the CKC requires is a $12 registration fee, three photographs, and two witnesses who can know nothing about dogs to say that your dog is purebred! They will even register crossbred dogs, so-called "designer mutts".

CKC-Continental Kennel Club (do not confuse with Canadian Kennel Club!)
CKC will recognize a cross between any two purebred dogs, and will issue a registration certificate on their offspring. These crosses are not registered as purebred dogs but are registered as the offspring of purebred dogs. CKC accepts no responsibility for any inaccurate, false, or fraudulent information submitted on registration applications. They sponsor no shows or championships. They also give big fee breaks to large kennels registering lots of dogs (such as Puppy Mills). Will register dogs not registered with other recognized registries.  

http://members.tripod.com/~Moosewood/registries.html



Please read the articles in these links:

http://goldenrulekennel.com/page37.html

http://www.ilmorescue.org/Registry.htm

http://deeanna19.tripod.com/luvapuddykennel/puppy_mills.html


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## jazzmalt

> Wow am I glad I found this site. The place where you got her was on my list of searches for a new maltese.
> 
> I am getting a new little girl in two weeks from a site called "Winbornecreek" in Monroe,LA. Can anyone give me any resorces on how to check this site out? I have put down a deposit and talked with the owner Kathy Rayborne. She seems very nice and answered all my questions, but I am new to all this and after reading this site( which I should have done first), I'm worried.
> 
> Thanks,
> Stephanie[/B]


Hi, Stephanie. In case you're close to Monroe, LA, one of the top Maltese show breeders in the country isn't too far from there. Divine Maltese is in Slidell, LA. They have absolutely gorgeous, top quality Maltese.


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## Carole

Stephanie,
My Bella came from Angie and Larry Stanberry/Divine Maltese/Ponchatoula, Louisiana. 
They are well known in the top circles of the Maltese show world and American Maltese Association.
I have been thrilled with my Bella. Bella is to standard except for the tiniest of underbite and has been very healthy. She is four now.
You can't go wrong looking that direction.
Good advice, Jazzmalt.

http://www.divinemaltese.com/maltesepuppies.html

~Carole~


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## dogloverx3

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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Wow am I glad I found this site. The place where you got her was on my list of searches for a new maltese.
> 
> I am getting a new little girl in two weeks from a site called "Winbornecreek" in Monroe,LA. Can anyone give me any resorces on how to check this site out? I have put down a deposit and talked with the owner Kathy Rayborne. She seems very nice and answered all my questions, but I am new to all this and after reading this site( which I should have done first), I'm worried.
> 
> Thanks,
> Stephanie[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i do not feel that is a reputable breeder in any way. they do not breed to better the breed nor even breed to the standard.
> i definitely wouldn't suggest purchasing from that site.
> 
> a parti colored yorkie?? i'm not very well versed in the yorkie breed standard, but i'm pretty sure "parti" is not an accepted color.
> 
> click here and scroll down to see "cash" their parti colored yorkie.
> 
> 
> 
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> [/B]
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Actually Carrie you are wrong , that Yorkie is a very expensive Biewer Yorkshire . The Biewer is from Germany and is the result of a piebald genetic recessive gene . Sarah


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## carrie

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> Wow am I glad I found this site. The place where you got her was on my list of searches for a new maltese.
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> I am getting a new little girl in two weeks from a site called "Winbornecreek" in Monroe,LA. Can anyone give me any resorces on how to check this site out? I have put down a deposit and talked with the owner Kathy Rayborne. She seems very nice and answered all my questions, but I am new to all this and after reading this site( which I should have done first), I'm worried.
> 
> Thanks,
> Stephanie[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i do not feel that is a reputable breeder in any way. they do not breed to better the breed nor even breed to the standard.
> i definitely wouldn't suggest purchasing from that site.
> 
> a parti colored yorkie?? i'm not very well versed in the yorkie breed standard, but i'm pretty sure "parti" is not an accepted color.
> 
> click here and scroll down to see "cash" their parti colored yorkie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> [/B]
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> 
> Actually Carrie you are wrong , that Yorkie is a very expensive Biewer Yorkshire . The Biewer is from Germany and is the result of a piebald genetic recessive gene . Sarah
> [/B]
Click to expand...

thanks for the info on biewer yorkshire, very interesting.... 
however, there is no info regarding that coloration in the AKC breed standard for the yorkshire terrier.


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## kathym

so happy to hear your keeping the puppy .they are the inocent ones . on the other hand the breeders that really are only out for profit and not these beautiful animals should all get a case of fleas


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## 1malt4me

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=389365
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> Bless your heart. You may be surprised how far she comes with love and security. Yes, do post pictures![/B]
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> 
> 
> Wow am I glad I found this site. The place where you got her was on my list of searches for a new maltese.
> 
> I am getting a new little girl in two weeks from a site called "Winbornecreek" in Monroe,LA. Can anyone give me any resorces on how to check this site out? I have put down a deposit and talked with the owner Kathy Rayborne. She seems very nice and answered all my questions, but I am new to all this and after reading this site( which I should have done first), I'm worried.
> 
> Thanks,
> Stephanie
> [/B]
Click to expand...

Hi Stepanie,
I agree witht he others, there are a lot of things on this site that screm, stay away, I wouldn't buy a puppy from this person it doesn't look too good.


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## gatiger40

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=389380
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bless your heart. You may be surprised how far she comes with love and security. Yes, do post pictures![/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow am I glad I found this site. The place where you got her was on my list of searches for a new maltese.
> 
> I am getting a new little girl in two weeks from a site called "Winbornecreek" in Monroe,LA. Can anyone give me any resorces on how to check this site out? I have put down a deposit and talked with the owner Kathy Rayborne. She seems very nice and answered all my questions, but I am new to all this and after reading this site( which I should have done first), I'm worried.
> 
> Thanks,
> Stephanie
> [/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hi Stepanie,
> I agree witht he others, there are a lot of things on this site that screm, stay away, I wouldn't buy a puppy from this person it doesn't look too good.
> [/B]
Click to expand...


I'm so confused. I feel like she is mine already. We are leaving for Disney world today and get back next week and I was going to fly and pick her up in Monroe, LA. We live in Georgia, but I work for an airline. I didn't know anything about different breeders before this website. I just thought if you asked all the right questions you would be ok.

She may not have show dogs, but she doesn't keep them in cages and they are raised in her home. I just want a pet puppy. I'm not interested in breeding. I plan on spaying her at 6 months. I know I can give her a wonderful life. I know she's not a puppy mill, but is a back yard breeder a bad thing? I mean as long as they raise the puppies with love. I'm ignorant when it comes to this subject. I just want a puppy that was loved. The whole papers issue means nothing to me.

Thanks for all the answeres. I guess I will just have to let my heart decide which I think it already has.

Stephanie


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## I found nemo

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> <div class='quotemain'>
> Bless your heart. You may be surprised how far she comes with love and security. Yes, do post pictures![/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow am I glad I found this site. The place where you got her was on my list of searches for a new maltese.
> 
> I am getting a new little girl in two weeks from a site called "Winbornecreek" in Monroe,LA. Can anyone give me any resorces on how to check this site out? I have put down a deposit and talked with the owner Kathy Rayborne. She seems very nice and answered all my questions, but I am new to all this and after reading this site( which I should have done first), I'm worried.
> 
> Thanks,
> Stephanie
> [/B]
Click to expand...

Hi Stepanie,
I agree witht he others, there are a lot of things on this site that screm, stay away, I wouldn't buy a puppy from this person it doesn't look too good.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I'm so confused. I feel like she is mine already. We are leaving for Disney world today and get back next week and I was going to fly and pick her up in Monroe, LA. We live in Georgia, but I work for an airline. I didn't know anything about different breeders before this website. I just thought if you asked all the right questions you would be ok.

She may not have show dogs, but she doesn't keep them in cages and they are raised in her home. I just want a pet puppy. I'm not interested in breeding. I plan on spaying her at 6 months. I know I can give her a wonderful life. I know she's not a puppy mill, but is a back yard breeder a bad thing? I mean as long as they raise the puppies with love. I'm ignorant when it comes to this subject. I just want a puppy that was loved. The whole papers issue means nothing to me.

Thanks for all the answeres. I guess I will just have to let my heart decide which I think it already has.

Stephanie
[/B][/QUOTE]







Please think about this very carefully, it's not that your not going to breed her or she doesnt have show dogs, it's the fact you don't know the background of this pup and you could end up paying more in vet care than the cost of the pup







please listen to these people here they know what they are talking about and they will lead you right ..
Please just take it into consideration and do some more reading here..


All The Best,
Andrea


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## KandiMaltese

Trust me, it's not just about "Love" A few questions to ask yourself..

Does this breeder allow the puppies to leave before 12 weeks? If so, this is a big no no in the toy dog world. Maltese need to stay with their mothers until 12 weeks.

Does this breeder do gentic testing on her dogs?

How many litters has this dog had and how many litters does she allow her dog to have? 

How often does she breed her dog? You should not be buying from a breeder who breeds every heat cycle.

Does she sell with AKC limited registration? 

Does she give her vet as a reference? Have you talked to him her?

Does she give her dogs heartworm & flea/tick prevenative and all innoculations are up to date?

Many more, these are just a few. I would reconsider. Her site looks very borderline puppy mill in my opinion. How do you know she's not? because she tells you so?

Andrea


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## totallytotontuffy

I'm so confused. I feel like she is mine already. We are leaving for Disney world today and get back next week and I was going to fly and pick her up in Monroe, LA. We live in Georgia, but I work for an airline. I didn't know anything about different breeders before this website. I just thought if you asked all the right questions you would be ok.

She may not have show dogs, but she doesn't keep them in cages and they are raised in her home. I just want a pet puppy. I'm not interested in breeding. I plan on spaying her at 6 months. I know I can give her a wonderful life. I know she's not a puppy mill, but is a back yard breeder a bad thing? I mean as long as they raise the puppies with love. I'm ignorant when it comes to this subject. I just want a puppy that was loved. The whole papers issue means nothing to me.

Thanks for all the answeres. I guess I will just have to let my heart decide which I think it already has.

Stephanie
[/QUOTE]

Stephanie, once we talk to a breeder and find out that a puppy is available, it's very easy to get caught up in the moment and set plans in motion. It then becomes difficult to reverse directions and rethink our decision. Sometimes it isn't a good idea to let our hearts decide for us.

About 2 years after acquiring Toto from Hollybelle's Maltese I discovered from the internet grapevine that Jennifer Siliski's home was raided after receiving numerous complaints from neighbors. She had upwards of 200 dogs in her garage stacked in cages in deplorable conditions. She was considered a "show breeder", had ads in Dog Fancy magazine, when I spoke to her she answered all of the questions correctly, and her website led me to believe that her dogs were raised in her home under the best conditions. Little did I, or even another woman who WENT TO HER HOME to pick up her puppy have any idea that behind her house she was operating a puppymill out of her garage. Myself as well as the Buttercup's mom along with so many other Maltese lovers volunteered our time in Franklin, TN to help care for the rescued dogs. After seeing first hand the horrific condition and health issues that these dogs were in, I would like to try and encourage you to take a step back and listen to what everyone is saying here. It might mean you aren't going to get a puppy within the same time frame that you had planned, but it could save you a lot of heartache in the long run. Whatever you choose, I wish you the very best.

Deb


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## carrie

> I'm so confused. I feel like she is mine already. We are leaving for Disney world today and get back next week and I was going to fly and pick her up in Monroe, LA. We live in Georgia, but I work for an airline. I didn't know anything about different breeders before this website. I just thought if you asked all the right questions you would be ok.
> 
> She may not have show dogs, but she doesn't keep them in cages and they are raised in her home. I just want a pet puppy. I'm not interested in breeding. I plan on spaying her at 6 months. I know I can give her a wonderful life. I know she's not a puppy mill, but is a back yard breeder a bad thing? I mean as long as they raise the puppies with love. I'm ignorant when it comes to this subject. I just want a puppy that was loved. The whole papers issue means nothing to me.
> 
> Thanks for all the answeres. I guess I will just have to let my heart decide which I think it already has.
> 
> Stephanie[/B]


massimo came to me from a backyard breeder. although he was raised in her home with lots of love, he has ongoing health issues. backyards breeders mean well, but infact may cause a whole lot of heartache without even knowing it.
here's my post from another thread:


> ok.... everybody's heard my *boohoo* sob story a million times....
> 
> massimo came from a backyard breeder. she seemed knowledgeable of the breed and the standard.
> she was very kind and LOVED her dogs. she took very good care of them. when i visited her house, there was a nursery room (which was decorated just as you would expect a human nursery to be) off of the living room that used to be a sitting area. it had a playpen in it where the dogs/puppies were kept off the ground when they were itty bitty and then there was an exercise pen for them when they got a bit older. she had shelves of baby blankets, baskets of toys, packages of puppy pads and many cute beds.
> 
> but she had no idea what the heck she was doing when it came to breeding.
> 
> she had no idea that petshop dogs were puppymill dogs and what type of situation they lived in, nor did she know that puppymill dogs were bred only to produce puppies for money with no attention or care paid to the genetics of the dogs.
> 
> she bred her dogs because she loved them.
> 
> BUT- many of her puppies ended up substandard and some with health issues.....
> massimo has some health issues. *all of which developed after he was a year old*
> he has epilepsy, early genetic periodontal disease and now has a slipping patella which will eventually need surgery. that's most likely caused from the stress of his seizures.
> 
> now.... the breeder who bred massimo... she's sorry. she's sorry that massimo's sick.... what can she do about it? she doesn't have the money to pay for massimo's vet care... the only thing she felt obligated to do was to offer me another puppy to REPLACE massimo. HA! NO FRIGGEN WAY! REPLACE massimo??
> she said "i'll try my best to find him a proper home." i'm sorry....but he ain't goin' no where. i am going to do what ever's necessary to keep massimo comfortable, *he is irreplaceable*. he will get the best i can provide.
> she did however fix her dogs after the second litter which also had some health issues.
> 
> that doesn't change the fact that i have to deal with his health issues....especially having to witness the seizures. it doesn't change the fact that i cry and feel so much heartache for the suffering he has to endure. but i take him in for blood test, i make sure he has the medication he needs and more than enough love to smother him in.
> 
> dogs should be bred by people who know what they are doing, who know their lines and genetics.
> people who breed their dogs should be responsible for what they produce.
> because in some cases, they can produce a lifetime of heartache and suffering, not to mention vet bills.[/B]


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## KandiMaltese

Carrie
















Andrea


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## carrie

> Carrie
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lol...thanks andrea.









i just get tired of typing it out over and over again... but i still think people should be educated about where to get a puppy from... so i just copy and paste....much easier on the fingers...lol.


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## I found nemo

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> i just get tired of typing it out over and over again... but i still think people should be educated about where to get a puppy from... so i just copy and paste....much easier on the fingers...lol.
> [/B]
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Good that u do Carrie even if just one or two people listen its so worth it then








Andrea


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## 1malt4me

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=390334
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> QUOTE(LadysMom @ Jun 10 2007, 12:50 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=389365
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> <div class='quotemain'>
> Bless your heart. You may be surprised how far she comes with love and security. Yes, do post pictures![/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow am I glad I found this site. The place where you got her was on my list of searches for a new maltese.
> 
> I am getting a new little girl in two weeks from a site called "Winbornecreek" in Monroe,LA. Can anyone give me any resorces on how to check this site out? I have put down a deposit and talked with the owner Kathy Rayborne. She seems very nice and answered all my questions, but I am new to all this and after reading this site( which I should have done first), I'm worried.
> 
> Thanks,
> Stephanie
> [/B]
Click to expand...

Hi Stepanie,
I agree witht he others, there are a lot of things on this site that screm, stay away, I wouldn't buy a puppy from this person it doesn't look too good.
[/B][/QUOTE]


I'm so confused. I feel like she is mine already. We are leaving for Disney world today and get back next week and I was going to fly and pick her up in Monroe, LA. We live in Georgia, but I work for an airline. I didn't know anything about different breeders before this website. I just thought if you asked all the right questions you would be ok.

She may not have show dogs, but she doesn't keep them in cages and they are raised in her home. I just want a pet puppy. I'm not interested in breeding. I plan on spaying her at 6 months. I know I can give her a wonderful life. I know she's not a puppy mill, but is a back yard breeder a bad thing? I mean as long as they raise the puppies with love. I'm ignorant when it comes to this subject. I just want a puppy that was loved. The whole papers issue means nothing to me.

Thanks for all the answeres. I guess I will just have to let my heart decide which I think it already has.

Stephanie
[/B][/QUOTE]

I am sure you feel that she is yours right now and you are in love with the idea of her but please listen to the different experiences some of the people in this group have had. It is not a question of loving your dog once you get it, it is sometimes a matter of health issues that could either cost you a lot in the future or shorten the dog's life. I think someone on this list lost their puppy at 1 year of age, that is sad. There are a lot of breeders out there that are reasonable and have puppies, even if you have to wait it WILL be worth your time. I will be glad to tell you where I got mine.


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## Guest

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> 
> Bless your heart. You may be surprised how far she comes with love and security. Yes, do post pictures![/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow am I glad I found this site. The place where you got her was on my list of searches for a new maltese.
> 
> I am getting a new little girl in two weeks from a site called "Winbornecreek" in Monroe,LA. Can anyone give me any resorces on how to check this site out? I have put down a deposit and talked with the owner Kathy Rayborne. She seems very nice and answered all my questions, but I am new to all this and after reading this site( which I should have done first), I'm worried.
> 
> Thanks,
> Stephanie
> [/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hi Stepanie,
> I agree witht he others, there are a lot of things on this site that screm, stay away, I wouldn't buy a puppy from this person it doesn't look too good.
> [/B]
Click to expand...


I'm so confused. I feel like she is mine already. We are leaving for Disney world today and get back next week and I was going to fly and pick her up in Monroe, LA. We live in Georgia, but I work for an airline. I didn't know anything about different breeders before this website. I just thought if you asked all the right questions you would be ok.

She may not have show dogs, but she doesn't keep them in cages and they are raised in her home. I just want a pet puppy. I'm not interested in breeding. I plan on spaying her at 6 months. I know I can give her a wonderful life. I know she's not a puppy mill, but is a back yard breeder a bad thing? I mean as long as they raise the puppies with love. I'm ignorant when it comes to this subject. I just want a puppy that was loved. The whole papers issue means nothing to me.

Thanks for all the answeres. I guess I will just have to let my heart decide which I think it already has.

Stephanie
[/B][/QUOTE]

I am sure you feel that she is yours right now and you are in love with the idea of her but please listen to the different experiences some of the people in this group have had. It is not a question of loving your dog once you get it, it is sometimes a matter of health issues that could either cost you a lot in the future or shorten the dog's life. I think someone on this list lost their puppy at 1 year of age, that is sad. There are a lot of breeders out there that are reasonable and have puppies, even if you have to wait it WILL be worth your time. I will be glad to tell you where I got mine.
[/B][/QUOTE]

The thing I like the very best about this site is that people are willing to tell you the truth about their own negative experiences with BYB, puppymills, pet stores as well as the positive ones when a puppy is obtained from a reputable breeder. A deal on a puppy is no deal if the puppy has health and behavioral issues as a puppy or young adult. 

No offense to anyone here but when I first came to this site I didn't know what to make of some of the posts and thought something along the lines of geez not everyone wants or can afford a show dog's offspring. After reading all the archived messages available I changed my mind wholeheartedly. The honest and heartfelt warnings and autobiographical horror stories about puppies obtained from less than reputable sources is a wonderful free gift and form of buyer beware to anyone perusing this site. Your stories have changed my opinions about where my future maltese will come from and I just wanted you girls to know that your posts do make a difference.


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## Carole

Stephanie,

It looks like you have made your decision. At this point then there is not much more to add. All I can say is welcome to Spoiled Maltese and be sure to join in and share with us and we will with you.








Best of wishes to you and your little fur-baby.

~Carole~

_______________________

ohsopretty,

We are here to help each other if we can. I am glad you found us, too.









~Carole~


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## coco

Our little male Maltese came from a byb in LA. He was AKC registered, btw. He was a darling puppy, and at about 3 months he developed horrible allergies. It was about that time we realized that this darling puppy was deaf. So, he could follow no commands. My husband always said he was a trooper. Yes, he was. No matter how sick he was, he was always full of life and having a great time. But, this poor dog was on so many medications for allergies because of poor breeding that he died at the age of 6. It broke our hearts, but we knew he was no longer suffering from his illnesses. We now have Coco who is a lovely dog and as sweet as can be. She seems quite healthy, but we bought her from an approved top breeder. I know there are less expensive dogs than Coco, and they are lovely dogs. All I can say is do some research and find a dog from an approved AMA breeder, and, hopefully, you won't go through all the medical problems that many of us have had with our dogs. Losing a dog or having one with multiple problems is heart breaking and expensive. I may have paid a lot up front for my Coco, but it has been worth the money, since now I only have to pay for her normal vet visits. 

Never mind that I made the mistake, yet again, before Coco, of going to a pet store and buying a puppy which died a week later of Parvo. If only I had found SM before THAT mistake. :-( 

I guess you live and learn, but it is websites like this one which I hope is helping people like me who don't realize until it is too late. 

Good luck finding a healthy puppy!


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## _lily_lover_

hello.

im sorry to hear about your "puppy problem" im also sortry i have to tell you that states like arkansas, oklahoma, and other close states are puppy-mill territory. trust me, I had a very bad experience with a woman in AK. 

well, good luck with your puppy, hope all goes well.


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## MandyMc65

This is the post that helped me pick my puppy! I was about to purchase a puppy from the site that the original poster got hers, and after reading this, stopped immediately! I was able to get my deposit back and now I"m looking at all the wonderful breeders here in Northern California! I just want everyone here to know that their expereiences and words of advise don't go unheard! Thank you!


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## Tina

Buying and selling a puppy on the internet is a two way street. It is difficult to check on a buyer or a seller. After conversing with someone on the phone and by e-mail you think you get a feel for who the person really is. Rather it be the breeder or the buyer. I decided to go out and experiment with buying a puppy from some of these internet breeders. Nearly all of them wanted deposits right now. Give me the money or I won't talk to you. Then there were the breeders who did talk to you and ansered all my questions with all the right answers. On their sites they had that they take credit cards for it to make it easier to pay the deposit on their new puppy. Everyone keeps talking about breeders testing their dogs for genetic health problems. Maltese do not have any testing other than for liver shunt. You can have their eyes checked. You can have their hearts checked for murmers. You can have Xrays of their hips. But we can't test for epilepsy, thyroid, GME, Cushings and other genetic diseases. When they pop up the breeder then can do something about it. They can alter their breeding programs to eliminate the problem. Its like people. Just because I have diabetes doesn't mean that my children will have it. There isn't any family history of it. It popped up.

I went surfing on the internet for a breeder and what I saw scared me to death. I am a breeder of nice quality Maltese. I am not top tier. I consider people to be top tier when they can boast that they have BIS, BISS, Invited to Westminister, Invited to Euchanuba, Have specialed a dog from their own kennel and are winning groups with it. Have entire pedigrees from start to finish filled with all Champions. Are or have been in the top 10 Maltese in the USA. (Was there once with my first maltese, Charlot).

No wonder people are confused about how to go about buying a nice Maltese. As someone said just going to their home doesn't always mean they are reputable. The garage in the back could be full of dogs living in cages. 

I have bought 2 dogs off the internet, sort of. Being a show breeder, I knew of the two breeders I purchased them from. My German dog wasn't quite what the breeder said he was. The second dog is very nice and even though I am having a hard time in finishing him, its more me than him. 

I did have the experince of buying a puppy before my show days and learning about the ins and outs of buying a dog that turned out to be 1/4 Bichion. It sure looked to be Maltese. High pressure of getting her before they were all sold. Had to come get her when she was 8 weeks old. She only took cash. At 4 months old her heritage came out. I had AKC papers for her. 

The scamming is just getting out of hand. I've had brokers pose as individuals buying a puppy, but something would slip out and you knew what they were up to. I've had people pose as being new in Maltese and want a show puppy to get full AKC papers. Then find out they have been in Maltese a while. Have no intention of showing the dog and you can't limit the papers to stop what they are going to do. Contracts are supposed to protect you. ha Its only as good as the two people signing it. How are you going to enforce it? They don't care they just want to sell puppies to unsuspecting inexperienced people.

I couldn't live with myself if I was deceptive to a person buying my puppy. The person needs to know the truth so that there isn't any surprises. They know what to expect from the get go. Less chance of the puppy ending up in a rescue situation. 

I am sorry I am rattling along here. Just in shock on what all I saw when I went looking for a puppy on the net. 



Tina


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## PeachesMom

I am a customer of Murna Scott. I have a beautiful 10 month Maltese girl named Peaches. I have nothing but wonderful things to say about Peaches as well as Murna. I am a little confused how everyone has assumed that AdorablePals.com is using a Puppy Mill? Or why you believe the puppy has been neglected. These puppies are being put on airplanes and shipped across the state. Has anyone thought maybe the puppy may have been abused at the airline? My father-in-law told me that they are horrible to pets and they enjoy to taunt them. How can you make an assumption in one day? I have had my Maltese spayed and did complete blood work before her surgery and she was just perfect. She has been to the vet and has received a clean bill of health. I wasn't able to take my puppy when I purchased her because we were moving from CA to IL and I asked Murna to please keep her until she was 17 weeks old. She did without hesitation, didn't ask for any more money for the immunizations that had to be done at 16 weeks. She also sent me updates and pictures of Peaches to my 6 year daughter that was so excited to get our new puppy. We picked up Peaches in Utah and drove with her for 5 days in the car and hotel rooms and she was the model travel partner. She slept on my daughters lap the entire trip. I could smell the fresh shampoo on Peaches when she got off the plane. I know she was washed prior to boarding. She had an accident in flight and I had to wash her again when we got her to my Grandpa's in Utah. She was clean right down to her skin. I still keep in touch with Murna and she is just as nice today and she was 5 months ago when we bought her. In parting I would highly recommend AdorablePals.com. I have told Murna she can use me as a reference and I am not related in any way to the Scott family.


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## carrie

i'm so very glad you had a good experience... and of course the woman/puppymiller you've supported is super nice to you, after all...i'm sure she took your money with a smile on her face.  there's nothing like repeat customers in that sort of business... as they say, a fool and their money shall soon be parted.


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## ClaBec Maltese

> I am a customer of Murna Scott. I have a beautiful 10 month Maltese girl named Peaches. I have nothing but wonderful things to say about Peaches as well as Murna. I am a little confused how everyone has assumed that AdorablePals.com is using a Puppy Mill? Or why you believe the puppy has been neglected. These puppies are being put on airplanes and shipped across the state. Has anyone thought maybe the puppy may have been abused at the airline? My father-in-law told me that they are horrible to pets and they enjoy to taunt them. How can you make an assumption in one day? I have had my Maltese spayed and did complete blood work before her surgery and she was just perfect. She has been to the vet and has received a clean bill of health. I wasn't able to take my puppy when I purchased her because we were moving from CA to IL and I asked Murna to please keep her until she was 17 weeks old. She did without hesitation, didn't ask for any more money for the immunizations that had to be done at 16 weeks. She also sent me updates and pictures of Peaches to my 6 year daughter that was so excited to get our new puppy. We picked up Peaches in Utah and drove with her for 5 days in the car and hotel rooms and she was the model travel partner. She slept on my daughters lap the entire trip. I could smell the fresh shampoo on Peaches when she got off the plane. I know she was washed prior to boarding. She had an accident in flight and I had to wash her again when we got her to my Grandpa's in Utah. She was clean right down to her skin. I still keep in touch with Murna and she is just as nice today and she was 5 months ago when we bought her. In parting I would highly recommend AdorablePals.com. I have told Murna she can use me as a reference and I am not related in any way to the Scott family.[/B]


Excuse me I am not trying to step on any toes here but this looks like a plug for advertisement here. I went to this website and *ANY REPUTABLE BREEDER WILL NOT* have paymet options plastered all over their site like this one does. I do not know this person personally and am not claiming to. But I will state here if someone were to come to me and ask me what I thougt of the website I would tell them to go the other direction. IMHO this breeder is more concerned about making a dollar and making it easy to pay than caring about the puppies. Maybe I am wrong and if proven so I will be first to admit it. But excuse me I smell a fish here. 

It is weird how this post is you first post on this site. Did you come here just to boost this breeder? Well you really need to look around and you will understand why the people feel the way that they do about BYB and Puppy Mills.


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## carrie

if this person even bothered to read the thread thoroughly, the information provided clearly speaks for itself. 
there was no other reason for this person to post than to "back" the -so called- breeder. JMHO.


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## MandyMc65

The reason we "claim" she is a puppymiller is b/c she _IS _on the USDA list. Not only that, I was looking at her puppies, and after I decided not to get one, continued to check her site out of curiosity. The puppies she sent me pictures of (prior to them being posted) were NEVER listed on her site, either for "sale" or as previously sold. That is absolutely something that cannot be explained, especially since she said that my puppy (after I paid) would be listed as "held for..." and the others would be posted shortly. She was a very nice person and answered all my questions, that I will say. But any time pictures were requested, it took way longer for a response, than it did when $$ was mentioned. After working with a very well respected and reputable breeder, I would have to say that I made a great choice with my little one! Just my opinion, and yes we all have one.


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## maltesemommie

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=489418
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a customer of Murna Scott. I have a beautiful 10 month Maltese girl named Peaches. I have nothing but wonderful things to say about Peaches as well as Murna. I am a little confused how everyone has assumed that AdorablePals.com is using a Puppy Mill? Or why you believe the puppy has been neglected. These puppies are being put on airplanes and shipped across the state. Has anyone thought maybe the puppy may have been abused at the airline? My father-in-law told me that they are horrible to pets and they enjoy to taunt them. How can you make an assumption in one day? I have had my Maltese spayed and did complete blood work before her surgery and she was just perfect. She has been to the vet and has received a clean bill of health. I wasn't able to take my puppy when I purchased her because we were moving from CA to IL and I asked Murna to please keep her until she was 17 weeks old. She did without hesitation, didn't ask for any more money for the immunizations that had to be done at 16 weeks. She also sent me updates and pictures of Peaches to my 6 year daughter that was so excited to get our new puppy. We picked up Peaches in Utah and drove with her for 5 days in the car and hotel rooms and she was the model travel partner. She slept on my daughters lap the entire trip. I could smell the fresh shampoo on Peaches when she got off the plane. I know she was washed prior to boarding. She had an accident in flight and I had to wash her again when we got her to my Grandpa's in Utah. She was clean right down to her skin. I still keep in touch with Murna and she is just as nice today and she was 5 months ago when we bought her. In parting I would highly recommend AdorablePals.com. I have told Murna she can use me as a reference and I am not related in any way to the Scott family.[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excuse me I am not trying to step on any toes here but this looks like a plug for advertisement here. I went to this website and *ANY REPUTABLE BREEDER WILL NOT* have paymet options plastered all over their site like this one does. I do not know this person personally and am not claiming to. But I will state here if someone were to come to me and ask me what I thougt of the website I would tell them to go the other direction. IMHO this breeder is more concerned about making a dollar and making it easy to pay than caring about the puppies. Maybe I am wrong and if proven so I will be first to admit it. But excuse me I smell a fish here.
> 
> It is weird how this post is you first post on this site. Did you come here just to boost this breeder? Well you really need to look around and you will understand why the people feel the way that they do about BYB and Puppy Mills.
> [/B]
Click to expand...


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## maltesemommie

> The reason we "claim" she is a puppymiller is b/c she _IS _on the USDA list. Not only that, I was looking at her puppies, and after I decided not to get one, continued to check her site out of curiosity. The puppies she sent me pictures of (prior to them being posted) were NEVER listed on her site, either for "sale" or as previously sold. That is absolutely something that cannot be explained, especially since she said that my puppy (after I paid) would be listed as "held for..." and the others would be posted shortly. She was a very nice person and answered all my questions, that I will say. But any time pictures were requested, it took way longer for a response, than it did when $$ was mentioned. After working with a very well respected and reputable breeder, I would have to say that I made a great choice with my little one! Just my opinion, and yes we all have one.[/B]


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## ClaBec Maltese

> if this person even bothered to read the thread thoroughly, the information provided clearly speaks for itself.
> there was no other reason for this person to post than to "back" the -so called- breeder. JMHO.[/B]


OH Carrie I totally agree. I have not read the whole thread myself but when I read their post I knew what it was about. 


There is a reason I have not read the thread the day it started and if anyone wants to know why PM me and I will be more than happy to answer.


Maltese Mommie is there a reason that you are quoting us and not saying anything? Are you having internet issues. We will be more than happy to try and help you out if need be.


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## maltesemommie

Hello to all, I am Murna Scott ... the owner of adorablepals . I am so dissapointed to see and read all the diception and lies that are being told of me.... I have been raising precious Maltese for 7 1/2 yrs now and have just in the last day or so been informed of these ridiculous claims about my business. I am so appaled that people could say such rude and cruel things of a person they have never met before. As Mandy well knows I have always encouraged anyone interested in my babies to ask any questions and lots of them and I will be more than happy to anwer them..... if I do not know the answer I will find it. I spend countless hours caring for my Maltese and love them dearly. I was certainly surprised to see that Mandy actually was here to say that she received her deposit back from me... I thought I was the dishonest one? No I am not a mean person and will never be. I welcome anyone of you to call me at anytime,or to call any of my customers..... I could display numerous phone numbers here for you to call and without hestitation know that they would tell you wonderful things about my Maltese. On June 9th I received 2 e-mails from the lady who made the complaint about her new puppy from me in June (which I still have copies.... I keep all the e-mails I receive on file for honesty purposes) I explained to her that there was absolutley know way her puppy could have had the fleas she proclaimed because I had bathed her at 1:30a.m and had her at the airport at 4:30am... now since you have Maltese, you understand that when a Maltese is wet, you can see everything. I am a very particular person not only with my house, children ect. but also with my dogs.... I treat all of them with frontline monthly and would have been mortified to think that I had even 1 flea not to mention several.... I have reason to believe that she may have purchased my puppy to resale?????? As I have noticed here there have been several people ask to see pictures of her puppy and to my knowledge there are NONE....... I have on my website 2 pages of testimonials of people who have bought puppies from me.... most of them with family pictures to prove that I have not made these up (as referenced earlier)....... Mandy also made a reference to the puppy she was going to purchase..... I still have her, and would be glad to show pictures any time... her sister now belongs to a very sweet lady who lost her husband 1yr ago and needed a companion.... I love to give and be a blessing to others so she recieved her puppy free, as I have done numerous times...... see I am not all about $$ as was quoted earlier also...... I always sale my babies at a VERY reasonable price and when ask often why mine aren't as expensive as others, my reply is always the same.... I want my babies to go to new homes while they are still babies, they need bonding time while they are still young and so many don't recieve it because of the price tags that are placed on them. The USDA list that keeps coming up.... if you will notice on my 2nd testimonial page at the bottom I have pictures of bulldog puppies to which I raised before I fell in love with Maltese... I was informed that in order to sale dogs I had to be lisenced by them so that is what I did.... I'm not sure how much you understnad about USDA but they do inspections very regularly without your knowledge of having a visit..... I always got wonderful reveiws and great praise on all my dogs. I have not been licensed with them in several years now, since I now know that, that information was not exactly true( Apparently that is an old list that was printed... maybe you should look at a new one) I sent in all of my information to them and resigned myself from their organization...... All of my dogs are however registered by AKC to which I am also regulary visit without notification, and my Maltese are always praised as well as my nursery they are housed in...... As I stated earlier I will be glad to speak with any of you at any time, and would so appreciate your taking the time to reconsider slandering people whom you do not know, or have never seen..... you know what they say 'You reap what you sow' ..........


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## MandyMc65

Murna,

I want to let you know, that I appreciated receiving my deposit back, and I stated that you did give it back to me, so it must not be all about $$. Thank you. I also do not know of your breeding practices, since I was never able to visit you personally. That is something that had me on edge to begin with (purchasing a puppy online). I always wanted to go pick out my puppy and visit the breeder, so I can make an reliable, honest opinion of how that breeder was/is.

This forum allows people to post their opinions and experiences. That is why it is so wonderful. I can say that you were _very _nice and helpful, but as for the quality of your Maltese, I am unable to say, since I have never seen any of yours or seen their pedigrees.

I do have a question though... when I was told about the little girl I was looking at, she was the only female in her litter. She had 2 brothers. The other female was from a different litter, and was much younger....

Thank you. And I will say, I cannot say you are a puppy mill, as I have never visited your home.

~Mandy


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## maltesemommie

> Murna,
> 
> I want to let you know, that I appreciated receiving my deposit back, and I stated that you did give it back to me, so it must not be all about $$. Thank you. I also do not know of your breeding practices, since I was never able to visit you personally. That is something that had me on edge to begin with (purchasing a puppy online). I always wanted to go pick out my puppy and visit the breeder, so I can make an reliable, honest opinion of how that breeder was/is.
> 
> This forum allows people to post their opinions and experiences. That is why it is so wonderful. I can say that you were _very _nice and helpful, but as for the quality of your Maltese, I am unable to say, since I have never seen any of yours or seen their pedigrees.
> 
> I do have a question though... when I was told about the little girl I was looking at, she was the only female in her litter. She had 2 brothers. The other female was from a different litter, and was much younger....
> 
> Thank you. And I will say, I cannot say you are a puppy mill, as I have never visited your home.
> 
> ~Mandy[/B]


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## maltesemommie

Mandy,

THanks...! No the little female puppy that you were interested was from a litter of 3 (2 girls and and a boy.....) I still have the e-mails that I sent to you also with that information......

I am so sorry that you weren't able to experience the love and beauty of one of my little babies..... however I know that you are very happy with your little male..... he is very cute.....

No I am not a puppy miller... never have been and never will... As I stated earlier it makes me very disappointed to hear the conclusions that people make before finding out the true information first..... I have a lot of people who have just recently read this information and are not happy at all, so please don't be alarmed if you should have more comments posted in my defense in the future. As you have stated you do not know me and therefore have no idea who I am in my community etc..... I would imagine that many of the people on this forum would be in total shock if you were to actually meet me and see who I am, and the respect that I have in my town. I was simply overwhelmed when I read the FAST rediculing statements made to Peachesmom, as she went on to voice her opinion..... as you stated 'we all have one'.... I just hope that everyone who reads this will remember my earlier statement 'you reap what you sow'... I once heard a story of a lady who spread horrible rumors on a friend of hers. After the stories had gone out all over town and she saw the hurt she had caused to her friend she ask for an apology, which of course the friend gave. He then told her that no matter how sorry she was, the lies could never be returned... just as you would dump a bag of feathers from a tall building and then try to pick them all up, it could never be done..........


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## theboyz

Looking at the "site" made me very sad. No small breed dog should have to live in a barn. So many dogs, no socialization. I am fighting a puppymill "family" in Michigan and their Malts and other small dogs live in a barn behind the human house. They take all the pictures in the family home but the truth is......THE DOGS ALL LIVE IN THE BARN!!!!!
If I came to see you, could I go see the living conditions in the BARN??????
All of the reputable breeders we know have the dogs inside their home, always.
There is no way ( in my opinion ) that I see, any evidence that you care for the well being, love, socialization, health or anthing else of ALL these dogs you have and are breeding. You can't convince me, ever!!!!!
Breed as many as you can, make money and on to the next litter.
Every person on this site knows how sweet, needy, loving, gentle and deserving Malts are and to see them living and producing like this is a heart ache. Shame on you. 
This is my opinion only.

Please let us know what the Champion stock is, if you can and know.


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## Luna'sMom

> Mandy,
> 
> THanks...! No the little female puppy that you were interested was from a litter of 3 (2 girls and and a boy.....) I still have the e-mails that I sent to you also with that information......
> 
> I am so sorry that you weren't able to experience the love and beauty of one of my little babies..... however I know that you are very happy with your little male..... he is very cute.....
> 
> No I am not a puppy miller... never have been and never will... As I stated earlier it makes me very disappointed to hear the conclusions that people make before finding out the true information first..... I have a lot of people who have just recently read this information and are not happy at all, so please don't be alarmed if you should have more comments posted in my defense in the future. As you have stated you do not know me and therefore have no idea who I am in my community etc..... I would imagine that many of the people on this forum would be in total shock if you were to actually meet me and see who I am, and the respect that I have in my town. I was simply overwhelmed when I read the FAST rediculing statements made to Peachesmom, as she went on to voice her opinion..... as you stated 'we all have one'.... I just hope that everyone who reads this will remember my earlier statement 'you reap what you sow'... I once heard a story of a lady who spread horrible rumors on a friend of hers. After the stories had gone out all over town and she saw the hurt she had caused to her friend she ask for an apology, which of course the friend gave. He then told her that no matter how sorry she was, the lies could never be returned... just as you would dump a bag of feathers from a tall building and then try to pick them all up, it could never be done..........[/B]


How come the puppies all come from different parents - that is alot of litters? did they have no siblings? Maltese Puppies on Adorablepals.com

I don't think any breeder who sells their pups on the internet (with Paypal payment options) is a reputable breeder. Period. On the internet it's easy to make something appear 'good' and 'reputable' and that's why people should be VERY cautious about internet 'breeders'. You may be the nice lovely home-breeding establishment you say and you could just as easily be a puppy miller - you can never tell on the net. 

In your guarantee ; 
"There are certain disorders that may be caused by environmental factors, for example: allergies, thyroid dysfunction, demodectic mange, and other autoimmune disorders that are not covered by this guarantee." ... sounds kinda odd - if the disease is caused by environment wouldn't it be your fault as you are the breeder where the pup GROW's up :S 

I am not attacking you Marna just showing you why people are suspicious, sorry


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## Toby's Mom

I guess many of us Maltese lovers are a little bit confused by your website. If you could, please clarify a few questions that I have.

First of all, Maltese are know for thriving on human companionship and love. However, your dogs are placed in a shed. Why aren't they in your home around people for that necessary interaction?

Secondly, you let potential buyers purchase a puppy directly through the Internet and you know nothing about the buyer. Don't you care what kind of home environment the puppy will be going to? How do you screen potential buyers? 

Thanks!


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## maltesemommie

You know I could go on and on answering questions in my defense and others who know me and and trust me could as well. I just really do not feel that it would change a lot of your opinions about me, so I choose to not sit here hour after hour and feel as though I am on trial. My Maltese are my life.... as far as their housing it is right beside my house and is in plain veiw for all to see..... I take very good care of them daily, they are all in excellent health and are socialized daily, by not only myself but others as well. As I stated earlier I was just informed about 'me' being on your discussion topic a few days ago, and decided to try to clear things up, to the best of my ability. I have been very honest and open, and actually post pictures of my babies housing on my website (unlike so many other sites) so that potential customers can see where their new babies live. I do not care to fight and argue and nit pick everything.... I am sure if you had your life displayed on a website for all to see there would be plenty of questions to ask as well. So... thanks so much for all of your opinions, but please do not worry about my babies.... they are being taken care of very well.......


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## BrookeB676

> You know I could go on and on answering questions in my defense and others who know me and and trust me could as well. I just really do not feel that it would change a lot of your opinions about me, so I choose to not sit here hour after hour and feel as though I am on trial. My Maltese are my life.... as far as their housing it is right beside my house and is in plain veiw for all to see..... I take very good care of them daily, they are all in excellent health and are socialized daily, by not only myself but others as well. As I stated earlier I was just informed about 'me' being on your discussion topic a few days ago, and decided to try to clear things up, to the best of my ability. I have been very honest and open, and actually post pictures of my babies housing on my website (unlike so many other sites) so that potential customers can see where their new babies live. I do not care to fight and argue and nit pick everything.... I am sure if you had your life displayed on a website for all to see there would be plenty of questions to ask as well. So... thanks so much for all of your opinions, but please do not worry about my babies.... they are being taken care of very well.......[/B]


I wasn't going to post, but I just can't stand it. The bottom line is that good breeders produce to better the breed, and clearly that is not your concern. You may very well love your babies and care for them, but that doesn't discount the face that you produce several pet maltese a year and don't breed to the maltese standard. In fact, it doesn't even appear that you breed them yourself considering there are no pictures of adult parents or descriptions of your breeding program. There is nothing wrong with placing a pet maltese to a loving and caring home, as good breeders do this each year, however, the difference is that good breeders only breed two dogs that meet the maltese standard. They also put time and money in their show careers, as well as blood testing their lines, to ensure that all of us maltese lovers will be able to purchase a high quality and healthy maltese for many years to come. I don't necessarily have a perfect list of what is and what isn't a good breeder, but anyone that loves the maltese and is looking at your website, would be turned off by the fact that you have no pictures of adult maltese dogs, they live in a barn, and you have maltese to sell at all times. The very fact that a selling point you use is to give them "16" gracious square feet of space reminds me of either a dog boarding facility or a puppy mill. Whether you are a mill or a backyard breeder, you can't tell me that your concern is to breed to the maltese standard and you also can't tell me for the price that you sell your maltese, that the lines have been genetically tested and their livers have been checked, etc. etc. 

I think we can all agree to disagree with you and hope that someone looking for a puppy will not disregard the potential health problems amongst other issues, such as socialization, that a puppy from a backyard breeder may have. While there are no guarantees with any puppy, I'd rather take my chances with a qualified breeder who, as mentioned several times, cares and loves the maltese breed so much that they produce to better it and are extremely familiar with their lines.


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## BrookeB676

repeated...


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## 3Maltmom

Good heavens, you must have alot of puppies, if you have to house them in a barn.

Nope I would not buy from you, and would definately steer people away from you.

I don't see mention of a spay/neuter contract. You do state this: 

 Our puppies are sold as PET QUALITY puppies. We do not guarantee your puppy to be able to sire or whelp puppies.


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## ShilohsMom

If you type in Murna Scott on a google search engine you can plainly see that she regularly lists her puppies on nextdaypets and puppyfind.com. I went to next day pets to view your maltese ads and noticed that you will meet someone within 50 miles or ship a puppy via airline. Is there some reason that you don't welcome a potential buyer to come pick up their puppy at your home/facility in your ads?


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## bellaratamaltese

I do have to say that I appreciate you not charging show breeder prices for your maltese, that is one thing that irritates the beejeeses out of me. 

Based on your website however, I would steer anybody clear from purchasing from you. Your guarantee is a huge buyer beware and would make me extremely nervous. The fact that you dont' sell with limited registration is not ok and I really REALLy dislike seeing puppies dressed up for pictures, like you have listed. it makes them looks so sad and pathetic and isnt' cute at all. 

I don't believe you are a puppy mill (that word gets thrown around so often) but I do not think you are breeding to better the breed, only to produce puppies for sale. But again, I appreicate the fact that you don't charge show breeder prices for your puppies. You are being judged by the information listed on your website, so maybe you need to rethink the huge amounts of paypal and 'buy now' buttons.


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## kookla31

> Oklahoma is one of the top three puppy mill states. If you feel comfortable posting your breeder's name, perhaps we can help you determine if your breeder was a good one or not. If not, if you'd like to pm me, I can check to see if she's licensed with the USDA for you and check her out a bit with the Better Business Bureau, etc..
> 
> If it turns out she is from a mill, I tend to agree with your husband. This puppy could have socialization problems for life, not to mention health issues that could run up huge bills and break your heart.
> 
> What sort of guarentee did you get?[/B]


Hey there..
I have some limited info on where I got Lucy.. Yes from a pet store but they gave me paperwork and its OKlahoma too! I cant believe this.... I am going to get the paperwork and I will post it back to you if your willing to help me find out if this lady is running a mill.... I want to fly down to OK and Rip her a new one and everyone else that is doing it... let me know if you will help me... 

Thanks Steph


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## Ladysmom

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=388926
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oklahoma is one of the top three puppy mill states. If you feel comfortable posting your breeder's name, perhaps we can help you determine if your breeder was a good one or not. If not, if you'd like to pm me, I can check to see if she's licensed with the USDA for you and check her out a bit with the Better Business Bureau, etc..
> 
> If it turns out she is from a mill, I tend to agree with your husband. This puppy could have socialization problems for life, not to mention health issues that could run up huge bills and break your heart.
> 
> What sort of guarentee did you get?[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey there..
> I have some limited info on where I got Lucy.. Yes from a pet store but they gave me paperwork and its OKlahoma too! I cant believe this.... I am going to get the paperwork and I will post it back to you if your willing to help me find out if this lady is running a mill.... I want to fly down to OK and Rip her a new one and everyone else that is doing it... let me know if you will help me...
> 
> Thanks Steph
> [/B]
Click to expand...

Steph, unfortunately all pet store puppies come from puppy mills no matter what they tell you. You are not alone in finding out after the fact that your puppy came from a mill in the midwest someplace instead of the "local breeder" they told you. I bet you can find your breeder's name on the USDA "puppymill" list:

http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/ListA2006.pdf

You can also find Murna Scott's name there under Arkansas.

You can also research the origin of a pet shop puppy for free here:

http://www.petshoppuppies.org/


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## saltymalty

> I do have to say that I appreciate you not charging show breeder prices for your maltese, that is one thing that irritates the beejeeses out of me.
> 
> Based on your website however, I would steer anybody clear from purchasing from you. Your guarantee is a huge buyer beware and would make me extremely nervous. The fact that you dont' sell with limited registration is not ok and I really REALLy dislike seeing puppies dressed up for pictures, like you have listed. it makes them looks so sad and pathetic and isnt' cute at all.
> 
> I don't believe you are a puppy mill (that word gets thrown around so often) but I do not think you are breeding to better the breed, only to produce puppies for sale. But again, I appreicate the fact that you don't charge show breeder prices for your puppies. You are being judged by the information listed on your website, so maybe you need to rethink the huge amounts of paypal and 'buy now' buttons.[/B]


I have read all the posts in this thread, which I found to be very interesting. My opinion here is that this particular "breeder" is operating as a business rather than as a hobby or show breeder. In my opinion, based on the information contained in her website, I would not consider her as a potential source for a puppy. I agree with you, LucyOwnsMe, that her website is a huge turn-off. What struck me was that she has many photos of her family, but none that include pets. To me, that indicates that her pups are viewed as livestock rather than members of her family. Now I have no way of knowing if that is true or not, but certainly based on the information contained in her website, that is a conclusion I would easily draw. I do have to say, however, in her defense, that coming onto this site was probably a difficult thing to do. Maybe this can be a situation where we can have a positive outcome...maybe this particular breeder can seek the advise and counsel of some of our expert show breeders here to help better her own program.


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## kookla31

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=489710
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oklahoma is one of the top three puppy mill states. If you feel comfortable posting your breeder's name, perhaps we can help you determine if your breeder was a good one or not. If not, if you'd like to pm me, I can check to see if she's licensed with the USDA for you and check her out a bit with the Better Business Bureau, etc..
> 
> If it turns out she is from a mill, I tend to agree with your husband. This puppy could have socialization problems for life, not to mention health issues that could run up huge bills and break your heart.
> 
> What sort of guarentee did you get?[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey there..
> I have some limited info on where I got Lucy.. Yes from a pet store but they gave me paperwork and its OKlahoma too! I cant believe this.... I am going to get the paperwork and I will post it back to you if your willing to help me find out if this lady is running a mill.... I want to fly down to OK and Rip her a new one and everyone else that is doing it... let me know if you will help me...
> 
> Thanks Steph
> [/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Steph, unfortunately all pet store puppies come from puppy mills no matter what they tell you. You are not alone in finding out after the fact that your puppy came from a mill in the midwest someplace instead of the "local breeder" they told you. I bet you can find your breeder's name on the USDA "puppymill" list:
> 
> http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/ListA2006.pdf
> 
> You can also find Murna Scott's name there under Arkansas.
> 
> You can also research the origin of a pet shop puppy for free here:
> 
> http://www.petshoppuppies.org/
> [/B]
Click to expand...

I know that Lucy didnt come from Murna Scott... 
As much as it breaks my heart to think that I supported this horrific thing.. I am trying to find good in it and that is that I have Lucy in our family now and saved her from maybe a worse life.... maybe she would have gone to a family that only wanted a cute little puppy and then would not have taken care of her and her health needs.... She could have been put with a family with alot of kids that were careless and she could have been killed just by someone stepping on her. She is that small.. . barely two pounds! ) = But when I was looking on line and I googled the breeders name on my paperwork, I was brought to that site prisoners of greed and her name was on it... I couldnt find out any more info... I didnt know if her name was on there that that ment it was a puppy mill operation.. Im very saddened by this and angry and want to do something... I am going to fill out a request for a report on her from Pet shop puppies for free when I get home. I cant do it at work. For some reason the computer system wont allow me to go to that site or to the other site, prissoners of greed at work... but her name is Glennis white from Cherokee Ok, ID 11519 Broker Sparks. 
Nothing I can do about it now... But I will file a report with the better buisness bureau and do from what that one site says I can do at pet shop puppies. Im so mad.


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## kookla31

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=489418
> 
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> 
> I am a customer of Murna Scott. I have a beautiful 10 month Maltese girl named Peaches. I have nothing but wonderful things to say about Peaches as well as Murna. I am a little confused how everyone has assumed that AdorablePals.com is using a Puppy Mill? Or why you believe the puppy has been neglected. These puppies are being put on airplanes and shipped across the state. Has anyone thought maybe the puppy may have been abused at the airline? My father-in-law told me that they are horrible to pets and they enjoy to taunt them. How can you make an assumption in one day? I have had my Maltese spayed and did complete blood work before her surgery and she was just perfect. She has been to the vet and has received a clean bill of health. I wasn't able to take my puppy when I purchased her because we were moving from CA to IL and I asked Murna to please keep her until she was 17 weeks old. She did without hesitation, didn't ask for any more money for the immunizations that had to be done at 16 weeks. She also sent me updates and pictures of Peaches to my 6 year daughter that was so excited to get our new puppy. We picked up Peaches in Utah and drove with her for 5 days in the car and hotel rooms and she was the model travel partner. She slept on my daughters lap the entire trip. I could smell the fresh shampoo on Peaches when she got off the plane. I know she was washed prior to boarding. She had an accident in flight and I had to wash her again when we got her to my Grandpa's in Utah. She was clean right down to her skin. I still keep in touch with Murna and she is just as nice today and she was 5 months ago when we bought her. In parting I would highly recommend AdorablePals.com. I have told Murna she can use me as a reference and I am not related in any way to the Scott family.[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excuse me I am not trying to step on any toes here but this looks like a plug for advertisement here. I went to this website and *ANY REPUTABLE BREEDER WILL NOT* have paymet options plastered all over their site like this one does. I do not know this person personally and am not claiming to. But I will state here if someone were to come to me and ask me what I thougt of the website I would tell them to go the other direction. IMHO this breeder is more concerned about making a dollar and making it easy to pay than caring about the puppies. Maybe I am wrong and if proven so I will be first to admit it. But excuse me I smell a fish here.
> 
> It is weird how this post is you first post on this site. Did you come here just to boost this breeder? Well you really need to look around and you will understand why the people feel the way that they do about BYB and Puppy Mills.
> [/B]
Click to expand...

I have to agree 110% with Suzys Mom! Its like black and white.. anyone that cannot see what is going on in these posts is uhm absolutely blind. There is nothing worse than people that are so ignorant and abusive to animals for money... I have unfortunalty watched some shows recently on Puppy Mills and I am DISGUSTED! MYRNA SOUNDS LIKE A PUPPY MILL RUNNER/BACK YARD BREEDER TO ME! GET REAL..


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## Boobookit

*I usually leave this threads to the experts on this wonderful site but I can't help myself this time. Breeders who are members on this site and other breeders that I have talked to all do and say the same thing. They make sure that their puppies/dogs are going to good homes. Heck I belong to a Maltese Rescue and WE make sure that the dogs go to good homes. Money is NEVER mentioned at the beginning, but proper homes is a must and NO small children, heck we do home checks.

Sorry Murna, but I do NOT see that on your site at all. You do not have a CLUE as to where these puppies are going and what their homelife is like. Do you even bother to find out if there are small children in the house that might hurt the puppy?? Do you address things like what could be hurtful to the puppies like certain nuts and coffee?? You, in one of the reference letters from a "happy" customer, printed a letter from a buyer who wrote how the dog had just taken a sip of her coffee which is why the face was brown......ummmmm, coffee can kill them.

Are we picking on you?? NO, we are not, we as responsible Maltese owners and dog owners in general who are asking the questions that you said we could ask in your statement to us.

You want to defend yourself and convince us that you are a reputable breeder and yet you can't answer these simple questions to us. We want to know.

Sorry everyone, but I feel, and of course I may be wrong, (although I doubt I am) the reason poor Murna came on here was because this may hurt her business, after all, we are the biggest Maltese forum on here and people seek us out to hear the truth. We need to keep this thread alive!!

Marie, Pacino & Ralphie.*


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## bellaratamaltese

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=489428
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a customer of Murna Scott. I have a beautiful 10 month Maltese girl named Peaches. I have nothing but wonderful things to say about Peaches as well as Murna. I am a little confused how everyone has assumed that AdorablePals.com is using a Puppy Mill? Or why you believe the puppy has been neglected. These puppies are being put on airplanes and shipped across the state. Has anyone thought maybe the puppy may have been abused at the airline? My father-in-law told me that they are horrible to pets and they enjoy to taunt them. How can you make an assumption in one day? I have had my Maltese spayed and did complete blood work before her surgery and she was just perfect. She has been to the vet and has received a clean bill of health. I wasn't able to take my puppy when I purchased her because we were moving from CA to IL and I asked Murna to please keep her until she was 17 weeks old. She did without hesitation, didn't ask for any more money for the immunizations that had to be done at 16 weeks. She also sent me updates and pictures of Peaches to my 6 year daughter that was so excited to get our new puppy. We picked up Peaches in Utah and drove with her for 5 days in the car and hotel rooms and she was the model travel partner. She slept on my daughters lap the entire trip. I could smell the fresh shampoo on Peaches when she got off the plane. I know she was washed prior to boarding. She had an accident in flight and I had to wash her again when we got her to my Grandpa's in Utah. She was clean right down to her skin. I still keep in touch with Murna and she is just as nice today and she was 5 months ago when we bought her. In parting I would highly recommend AdorablePals.com. I have told Murna she can use me as a reference and I am not related in any way to the Scott family.[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excuse me I am not trying to step on any toes here but this looks like a plug for advertisement here. I went to this website and *ANY REPUTABLE BREEDER WILL NOT* have paymet options plastered all over their site like this one does. I do not know this person personally and am not claiming to. But I will state here if someone were to come to me and ask me what I thougt of the website I would tell them to go the other direction. IMHO this breeder is more concerned about making a dollar and making it easy to pay than caring about the puppies. Maybe I am wrong and if proven so I will be first to admit it. But excuse me I smell a fish here.
> 
> It is weird how this post is you first post on this site. Did you come here just to boost this breeder? Well you really need to look around and you will understand why the people feel the way that they do about BYB and Puppy Mills.
> [/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have to agree 110% with Suzys Mom! Its like black and white.. anyone that cannot see what is going on in these posts is uhm absolutely blind. There is nothing worse than people that are so ignorant and abusive to animals for money... I have unfortunalty watched some shows recently on Puppy Mills and I am DISGUSTED! MYRNA SOUNDS LIKE A PUPPY MILL RUNNER/BACK YARD BREEDER TO ME! GET REAL..
> [/B]
Click to expand...

I realize how horrified you are right now because of your new baby you just bought, but I honestly do not think this breeder is a puppy mill in the true sense of the word. I *do *believe she is a backyard breeder who may or may not be breeding responsibly but I do not think she is a big scale breeder who is churning out puppy after puppy merely to sell to pet stores so your anger here might be directed at the wrong person. Is she a breeder any of us would recommend? Doesn't look like it but I don't think she deserves to be lashed out at like this. None of us can say that she doesn't love her puppies and at least in my mind, there is a big difference between a puppy mill and a backyard breeder, especially when it comes to the quality of the dogs lives. I'm not trying to start anything here, I understand how horrifying it is to learn about puppy mills, but lumping everyone in the same category may not be the most fair thing to do. I'm not taking sides, believe me, I just dont' want this thread going in the wrong direction so it defeats the purpose of being educational.


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## carrie

> I realize how horrified you are right now because of your new baby you just bought, but I honestly do not think this breeder is a puppy mill in the true sense of the word. I *do *believe she is a backyard breeder who may or may not be breeding responsibly but I do not think she is a big scale breeder who is churning out puppy after puppy merely to sell to pet stores so your anger here might be directed at the wrong person. Is she a breeder any of us would recommend? Doesn't look like it but I don't think she deserves to be lashed out at like this. None of us can say that she doesn't love her puppies and at least in my mind, there is a big difference between a puppy mill and a backyard breeder, especially when it comes to the quality of the dogs lives. I'm not trying to start anything here, I understand how horrifying it is to learn about puppy mills, but lumping everyone in the same category may not be the most fair thing to do. I'm not taking sides, believe me, I just dont' want this thread going in the wrong direction so it defeats the purpose of being educational.[/B]


i agree she may be a BYB, but on a larger scale than most. she frequently has many pups listed for sale.

on average, most BYBs have one litter a year. they have only one male, one female. this lady has 12 breeding dogs! 
her adult maltese page has them all listed. 

she may not be quite as bad as a mill, but in my opinion, she's close.

edited to add: she also has not addressed the many concerns about her breeding practices, pedigrees and health guarantees....


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## Ladysmom

Stacy, Murna Scott is on the USDA list under Arkansas breeders so she is a large scale commercial breeding operation.


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## kookla31

I agree with Marie, Pacino & Ralphie.


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## bellaratamaltese

> Stacy, Murna Scott is on the USDA list under Arkansas breeders so she is a large scale commercial breeding operation.[/B]


My mistake then! I thought there were different rules for each state regarding USDA licensing but I am definitely not knowledgable about it!


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## Ladysmom

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=489987
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stacy, Murna Scott is on the USDA list under Arkansas breeders so she is a large scale commercial breeding operation.[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My mistake then! I thought there were different rules for each state regarding USDA licensing but I am definitely not knowledgable about it!
> [/B]
Click to expand...

The USDA is the federal agency that enforces the Animal Welfare Act. The list of USDA licensed breeders and the one for brokers is organized by state.


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## 3Maltmom

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=489972
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I realize how horrified you are right now because of your new baby you just bought, but I honestly do not think this breeder is a puppy mill in the true sense of the word. I *do *believe she is a backyard breeder who may or may not be breeding responsibly but I do not think she is a big scale breeder who is churning out puppy after puppy merely to sell to pet stores so your anger here might be directed at the wrong person. Is she a breeder any of us would recommend? Doesn't look like it but I don't think she deserves to be lashed out at like this. None of us can say that she doesn't love her puppies and at least in my mind, there is a big difference between a puppy mill and a backyard breeder, especially when it comes to the quality of the dogs lives. I'm not trying to start anything here, I understand how horrifying it is to learn about puppy mills, but lumping everyone in the same category may not be the most fair thing to do. I'm not taking sides, believe me, I just dont' want this thread going in the wrong direction so it defeats the purpose of being educational.[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i agree she may be a BYB, but on a larger scale than most. she frequently has many pups listed for sale.
> 
> on average, most BYBs have one litter a year. they have only one male, one female. this lady has 12 breeding dogs!
> her adult maltese page has them all listed.
> 
> she may not be quite as bad as a mill, but in my opinion, she's close.
> 
> edited to add: she also has not addressed the many concerns about her breeding practices, pedigrees and health guarantees....
> [/B]
Click to expand...

Oh, Carrie, she did address the issues. Here's what she said:

" I do not care to fight and argue and nit pick everything.... " :blink: 


In other words, she does not have any answers. She did sign on to defend herself, yet has nothing, of any substance, to say. 

Our legitimate questions are considered "nit picking" to her. 

Well even Billy can see this is a shady operation. Oh wait, Billy doesn't have any EYES!!! He is one smart cookie, though :wub:


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## bellaratamaltese

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=490010
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> Stacy, Murna Scott is on the USDA list under Arkansas breeders so she is a large scale commercial breeding operation.[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My mistake then! I thought there were different rules for each state regarding USDA licensing but I am definitely not knowledgable about it!
> [/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The USDA is the federal agency that enforces the Animal Welfare Act. The list of USDA licensed breeders and the one for brokers is organized by state.
> [/B]
Click to expand...

Right, I know that, I meant I didn't know if different states have different requirements about who has to be USDA licensed and who doesn't. 

I am not trying to defend this breeder in anyway and I hope that you don't think that I am.


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## angela923

I just read the responds to this thread.. and I just couldn't help adding my opinion...

First about Murna and her operations... Well, if you ask me, I would not look twice at her website and I wouldn't even think about buying from her since you can just pay her right there and "buy" a pup.. Just this fact makes me feel sketchy about her... I mean, I would be afraid to get scammed for my money on top of the puppymill thing...

And yes, some people may say good things about her... but seems like a lot of people are feeling sketchy about her being a BYB or puppymill... 

So my 2 cent is that... if there are any doubt, find another!

*You wouldn't trust your child with someone you have DOUBTS about right? So why buy from someone who MAY or MAY NOT be a puppy mill, or MAY or MAY NOT be a byb... (and so on....) There are plenty of others good breeders that will not generate doubt in your mind....*


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## Honeysmomma

Okay - I have read thru all of your posts and I would like to say that I am disgusted with your "little gossip" page you have. First I would like it to be known that I am not trying to boost sales for anyone selling dogs. Honestly Murna doesn't need a boost in sales. *It is not her main source of income*. I have known Murna personally for 31 years. I have two small children that I have entrusted to her care multiple times. Now do I love my dogs? YES - BUT I LOVE MY KIDS MORE and she is super with them. I know what Murna's puppy houses look like - nicer than some human's live in. I am not sure why breeding dogs to "better the breed" is such a popular thing. You know when a breeder says that they are "inbreeding" their animals! Now talk about cruelty. If you try that with humans it is incest and is criminal! I also think it is cruel to have one male and one female and breed them over and over again. That is what many people who breed small breed dogs do. Think about how you would feel having 2 litters of babies every year. At least Murna has several females that she alternates having babies. I think it is noble that some people raise dogs that some of us normal people can afford to buy. I for one do not have time to show a champion animal - I have a normal life with a job and kids and a husband AND my animals. I do not have $2000 plus to plunk down for a dog. Does that mean I do not love my dog - no it just means I am a simple middle class person that is grateful someone is not just selling FOR THE HIGHEST PRICE THEY CAN GET. 
I do not see what the problem is with having Paypal buttons, etc. on her page. She does not a make a secret of the fact that she is trying to sell them. Why not make it as easy for the buyer as possible. Does she question the buyer? Yes I know for a fact she does. I also know she gets as much information about the person as she can before she lets the sale go through. I know she was doubtful about very first person who started this forum subject about her. She told me in June she thought she was reselling her puppy after the sale was final. Is she human and does she have faults? Certainly. Does she love her dogs and care for them to any animal lovers specs..... I say yes. She often foregoes family events with her out of state family members because she has a litter of little babies. I know that for a fact. You can not tell me that any puppy mill or BYB will do that. I understand that whatever your standards are for this forum maybe she does not meet. But to say that you would blacklist (in other words) her as a breeder or saler is ridiculous. There are many people who would love to buy a Maltese and do not know that some people don't ask for your firstborn as a price. I say KUDOs to Murna Scott and www.adorablepals.com


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## bellaratamaltese

> Okay - I have read thru all of your posts and I would like to say that I am disgusted with your "little gossip" page you have. First I would like it to be known that I am not trying to boost sales for anyone selling dogs. Honestly Murna doesn't need a boost in sales. *It is not her main source of income*. I have known Murna personally for 31 years. I have two small children that I have entrusted to her care multiple times. Now do I love my dogs? YES - BUT I LOVE MY KIDS MORE and she is super with them. I know what Murna's puppy houses look like - nicer than some human's live in. I am not sure why breeding dogs to "better the breed" is such a popular thing. You know when a breeder says that they are "inbreeding" their animals! Now talk about cruelty. If you try that with humans it is incest and is criminal! I also think it is cruel to have one male and one female and breed them over and over again. That is what many people who breed small breed dogs do. Think about how you would feel having 2 litters of babies every year. At least Murna has several females that she alternates having babies. I think it is noble that some people raise dogs that some of us normal people can afford to buy. I for one do not have time to show a champion animal - I have a normal life with a job and kids and a husband AND my animals. I do not have $2000 plus to plunk down for a dog. Does that mean I do not love my dog - no it just means I am a simple middle class person that is grateful someone is not just selling FOR THE HIGHEST PRICE THEY CAN GET.
> I do not see what the problem is with having Paypal buttons, etc. on her page. She does not a make a secret of the fact that she is trying to sell them. Why not make it as easy for the buyer as possible. Does she question the buyer? Yes I know for a fact she does. I also know she gets as much information about the person as she can before she lets the sale go through. I know she was doubtful about very first person who started this forum subject about her. She told me in June she thought she was reselling her puppy after the sale was final. Is she human and does she have faults? Certainly. Does she love her dogs and care for them to any animal lovers specs..... I say yes. She often foregoes family events with her out of state family members because she has a litter of little babies. I know that for a fact. You can not tell me that any puppy mill or BYB will do that. I understand that whatever your standards are for this forum maybe she does not meet. But to say that you would blacklist (in other words) her as a breeder or saler is ridiculous. There are many people who would love to buy a Maltese and do not know that some people don't ask for your firstborn as a price. I say KUDOs to Murna Scott and www.adorablepals.com[/B]


This post shows a lot of ignorance but I appreciate you clearing up some of the questions that were raised.

Unfortunately though, if asked, I would still tell somebody to look elsewhere.


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## Luna'sMom

> Okay - I have read thru all of your posts and I would like to say that I am disgusted with your "little gossip" page you have. First I would like it to be known that I am not trying to boost sales for anyone selling dogs. Honestly Murna doesn't need a boost in sales. *It is not her main source of income*. I have known Murna personally for 31 years. I have two small children that I have entrusted to her care multiple times. Now do I love my dogs? YES - BUT I LOVE MY KIDS MORE and she is super with them. I know what Murna's puppy houses look like - nicer than some human's live in. I am not sure why breeding dogs to "better the breed" is such a popular thing. You know when a breeder says that they are "inbreeding" their animals! Now talk about cruelty. If you try that with humans it is incest and is criminal! I also think it is cruel to have one male and one female and breed them over and over again. That is what many people who breed small breed dogs do. Think about how you would feel having 2 litters of babies every year. At least Murna has several females that she alternates having babies. I think it is noble that some people raise dogs that some of us normal people can afford to buy. I for one do not have time to show a champion animal - I have a normal life with a job and kids and a husband AND my animals. I do not have $2000 plus to plunk down for a dog. Does that mean I do not love my dog - no it just means I am a simple middle class person that is grateful someone is not just selling FOR THE HIGHEST PRICE THEY CAN GET.
> I do not see what the problem is with having Paypal buttons, etc. on her page. She does not a make a secret of the fact that she is trying to sell them. Why not make it as easy for the buyer as possible. Does she question the buyer? Yes I know for a fact she does. I also know she gets as much information about the person as she can before she lets the sale go through. I know she was doubtful about very first person who started this forum subject about her. She told me in June she thought she was reselling her puppy after the sale was final. Is she human and does she have faults? Certainly. Does she love her dogs and care for them to any animal lovers specs..... I say yes. She often foregoes family events with her out of state family members because she has a litter of little babies. I know that for a fact. You can not tell me that any puppy mill or BYB will do that. I understand that whatever your standards are for this forum maybe she does not meet. But to say that you would blacklist (in other words) her as a breeder or saler is ridiculous. There are many people who would love to buy a Maltese and do not know that some people don't ask for your firstborn as a price. I say KUDOs to Murna Scott and www.adorablepals.com[/B]


 :new_shocked: a dog from a show breeder ISN'T inbred... Reputable breeders rarely have more than 1/2 litters a year and NEVER from the same female more than once a year... pups from a show breeder aren't necessarily more expensive than petshop/byb/puppymill pups but they are almost always healthier... not leaving a litter at home alone doesn't mean she isn't a BYB or miller... breeding dogs to better the breed is about making sure that the pups are healthy (free of genetic disease) and are within the standard - why wouldn't it be popular? after all people want a Maltese that LOOKS and ACTS like a Maltese. 

Murna obviously is selling pups as a form of income and her operation is large scale... that along with the fact that she does not breed to standard nor show means that she is by definition a BYB or Puppy mill. It does not mean she doesn't love her dogs but it is a fact. I personally wouldn't buy another pup from a BYB (and definitely from a mill).


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## 3Maltmom

> Okay - I have read thru all of your posts and I would like to say that I am disgusted with your "little gossip" page you have. First I would like it to be known that I am not trying to boost sales for anyone selling dogs. Honestly Murna doesn't need a boost in sales. *It is not her main source of income*. I have known Murna personally for 31 years. I have two small children that I have entrusted to her care multiple times. Now do I love my dogs? YES - BUT I LOVE MY KIDS MORE and she is super with them. I know what Murna's puppy houses look like - nicer than some human's live in. I am not sure why breeding dogs to "better the breed" is such a popular thing. You know when a breeder says that they are "inbreeding" their animals! Now talk about cruelty. If you try that with humans it is incest and is criminal! I also think it is cruel to have one male and one female and breed them over and over again. That is what many people who breed small breed dogs do. Think about how you would feel having 2 litters of babies every year. At least Murna has several females that she alternates having babies. I think it is noble that some people raise dogs that some of us normal people can afford to buy. I for one do not have time to show a champion animal - I have a normal life with a job and kids and a husband AND my animals. I do not have $2000 plus to plunk down for a dog. Does that mean I do not love my dog - no it just means I am a simple middle class person that is grateful someone is not just selling FOR THE HIGHEST PRICE THEY CAN GET.
> I do not see what the problem is with having Paypal buttons, etc. on her page. She does not a make a secret of the fact that she is trying to sell them. Why not make it as easy for the buyer as possible. Does she question the buyer? Yes I know for a fact she does. I also know she gets as much information about the person as she can before she lets the sale go through. I know she was doubtful about very first person who started this forum subject about her. She told me in June she thought she was reselling her puppy after the sale was final. Is she human and does she have faults? Certainly. Does she love her dogs and care for them to any animal lovers specs..... I say yes. She often foregoes family events with her out of state family members because she has a litter of little babies. I know that for a fact. You can not tell me that any puppy mill or BYB will do that. I understand that whatever your standards are for this forum maybe she does not meet. But to say that you would blacklist (in other words) her as a breeder or saler is ridiculous. There are many people who would love to buy a Maltese and do not know that some people don't ask for your firstborn as a price. I say KUDOs to Murna Scott and www.adorablepals.com[/B]


First off you need to use paragraphs. Good Lord, this post made me dizzy. 

Secondly, I don't give a crap about her "family" events she's missed. What does that have to do with the price of rice? I've missed many family events, because of my dogs. Certainly doesn't make them "up to par".

Quite frankly, I'm wondering if you are all "one in the same". Your posting "style" appears to be of the same person.

Also, seems odd to me, that a "breeder" would have their "clients" jump in their defense. All within a matter of a couple days. 

If I have a problem with a client, I do not involve my other clients. Not cool.

Answer the REAL questions. 

I honestly believe the BYB opened up a can of worms for herself.


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## Ladysmom

> I honestly believe the BYB opened up a can of worms for herself.[/B]


I think you nailed it, Deb.

Or as Shakepeare said in Hamlet:

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.


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## Andrea&Luci

> Okay - I have read thru all of your posts and I would like to say that I am disgusted with your "little gossip" page you have. First I would like it to be known that I am not trying to boost sales for anyone selling dogs. Honestly Murna doesn't need a boost in sales. *It is not her main source of income*. I have known Murna personally for 31 years. I have two small children that I have entrusted to her care multiple times. Now do I love my dogs? YES - BUT I LOVE MY KIDS MORE and she is super with them. I know what Murna's puppy houses look like - nicer than some human's live in. I am not sure why breeding dogs to "better the breed" is such a popular thing. You know when a breeder says that they are "inbreeding" their animals! Now talk about cruelty. If you try that with humans it is incest and is criminal! I also think it is cruel to have one male and one female and breed them over and over again. That is what many people who breed small breed dogs do. Think about how you would feel having 2 litters of babies every year. At least Murna has several females that she alternates having babies. I think it is noble that some people raise dogs that some of us normal people can afford to buy. I for one do not have time to show a champion animal - I have a normal life with a job and kids and a husband AND my animals. I do not have $2000 plus to plunk down for a dog. Does that mean I do not love my dog - no it just means I am a simple middle class person that is grateful someone is not just selling FOR THE HIGHEST PRICE THEY CAN GET.
> I do not see what the problem is with having Paypal buttons, etc. on her page. She does not a make a secret of the fact that she is trying to sell them. Why not make it as easy for the buyer as possible. Does she question the buyer? Yes I know for a fact she does. I also know she gets as much information about the person as she can before she lets the sale go through. I know she was doubtful about very first person who started this forum subject about her. She told me in June she thought she was reselling her puppy after the sale was final. Is she human and does she have faults? Certainly. Does she love her dogs and care for them to any animal lovers specs..... I say yes. She often foregoes family events with her out of state family members because she has a litter of little babies. I know that for a fact. You can not tell me that any puppy mill or BYB will do that. I understand that whatever your standards are for this forum maybe she does not meet. But to say that you would blacklist (in other words) her as a breeder or saler is ridiculous. There are many people who would love to buy a Maltese and do not know that some people don't ask for your firstborn as a price. I say KUDOs to Murna Scott and www.adorablepals.com[/B]


WOW... that was gross.
the BOTTOM LINE is that ANYONE that has a website like that one is OBVIOUSLY not concerned about the genetic health issues that these poor babies probably have. Their only concern is how much money they can make!!! No reputable Maltese breeder would ever in a million years have "buy it now" buttons on their pages, and would ever even consider housing their babies in a friggin barn outside their house!!! SENSELESS!!!!!!!! Realistically speaking, no one cares about how good she is with children or whatever family events she's missed... we are a MALTESE forum and every single one of us cares about this breed and every time someone like this comes along trying to defend their website with ridiculous long posts that don't even answer our questions--YOU can't expect us to not get argumentative because WE are here as advocates for this breed!! WTF?!?! Anyone who is considering buying a poor baby from that website... STEER CLEAR and RUN FAST!!! SRSLY!


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## Luna'sMom

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=490108
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay - I have read thru all of your posts and I would like to say that I am disgusted with your "little gossip" page you have. First I would like it to be known that I am not trying to boost sales for anyone selling dogs. Honestly Murna doesn't need a boost in sales. *It is not her main source of income*. I have known Murna personally for 31 years. I have two small children that I have entrusted to her care multiple times. Now do I love my dogs? YES - BUT I LOVE MY KIDS MORE and she is super with them. I know what Murna's puppy houses look like - nicer than some human's live in. I am not sure why breeding dogs to "better the breed" is such a popular thing. You know when a breeder says that they are "inbreeding" their animals! Now talk about cruelty. If you try that with humans it is incest and is criminal! I also think it is cruel to have one male and one female and breed them over and over again. That is what many people who breed small breed dogs do. Think about how you would feel having 2 litters of babies every year. At least Murna has several females that she alternates having babies. I think it is noble that some people raise dogs that some of us normal people can afford to buy. I for one do not have time to show a champion animal - I have a normal life with a job and kids and a husband AND my animals. I do not have $2000 plus to plunk down for a dog. Does that mean I do not love my dog - no it just means I am a simple middle class person that is grateful someone is not just selling FOR THE HIGHEST PRICE THEY CAN GET.
> I do not see what the problem is with having Paypal buttons, etc. on her page. She does not a make a secret of the fact that she is trying to sell them. Why not make it as easy for the buyer as possible. Does she question the buyer? Yes I know for a fact she does. I also know she gets as much information about the person as she can before she lets the sale go through. I know she was doubtful about very first person who started this forum subject about her. She told me in June she thought she was reselling her puppy after the sale was final. Is she human and does she have faults? Certainly. Does she love her dogs and care for them to any animal lovers specs..... I say yes. She often foregoes family events with her out of state family members because she has a litter of little babies. I know that for a fact. You can not tell me that any puppy mill or BYB will do that. I understand that whatever your standards are for this forum maybe she does not meet. But to say that you would blacklist (in other words) her as a breeder or saler is ridiculous. There are many people who would love to buy a Maltese and do not know that some people don't ask for your firstborn as a price. I say KUDOs to Murna Scott and www.adorablepals.com[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW... that was gross.
> the BOTTOM LINE is that ANYONE that has a website like that one is OBVIOUSLY not concerned about the genetic health issues that these poor babies probably have. Their only concern is how much money they can make!!! No reputable Maltese breeder would ever in a million years have "buy it now" buttons on their pages, and would ever even consider housing their babies in a friggin barn outside their house!!! SENSELESS!!!!!!!! Realistically speaking, no one cares about how good she is with children or whatever family events she's missed... we are a MALTESE forum and every single one of us cares about this breed and every time someone like this comes along trying to defend their website with ridiculous long posts that don't even answer our questions--YOU can't expect us to not get argumentative because WE are here as advocates for this breed!! WTF?!?! Anyone who is considering buying a poor baby from that website... STEER CLEAR and RUN FAST!!! SRSLY!
> [/B]
Click to expand...

Well said Andrea :thumbsup:


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## carrie

anyone wanna know how many family events, sleepless nights, days on end i spent crying due to only one back yard breeding result?? 

anyone wanna know about how much vet care costs me yearly, or how much his meds are a year??

how about the toll the medication takes on his tiny little body, the heartache and suffering we both have to endure?
how about the scare of the seizure that lasted 8 minutes and the chance that it left him with permanent brain damage?
i wonder what that combined costs us....?

i know everyone gets tired of hearing about the sick, damaged babies.... especially the BYBs themselves... they only want to hear about the few select "success" stories that didn't end up with some sort of health issues....

wake up and smell the coffee people. BYBS DO HARM. it may not show up in every single pup....but massimo is one of the unlucky ones...and i'm luck to have him. because it gives me the opportunity to educate.


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## saltymalty

Wow, there is a ton of really great information here on this thread. I have to say how proud I am of all the SM members for keeping this discussion civil. I agree it is highly suspicious that after so much time, newbies are popping in here to add their 2 cents on this breeder. Whatever the motivation, that does not conceal the fact that this particular breeder does not fall into the category of what we consider an ideal breeder. Bottom line is that if we can educate others on responsible ownership, including the selection of a pup, we have done good!


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## kathym

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR THE EDUCATION I AM GETTING HERE. SOMEONE HAS TO BE THE VOICE FOR THOSE PUPS WITH WORD OF MOUTH AND EDUCATING PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO REALLY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT BYB AND MILLS AND WHAT HAPPENS ,SO THAT HOPEFULLY THEY ALL CAN GO OUT OF BUSINESS. 
KATHY AND MY BABY BACI


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## kookla31

> THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR THE EDUCATION I AM GETTING HERE. SOMEONE HAS TO BE THE VOICE FOR THOSE PUPS WITH WORD OF MOUTH AND EDUCATING PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO REALLY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT BYB AND MILLS AND WHAT HAPPENS ,SO THAT HOPEFULLY THEY ALL CAN GO OUT OF BUSINESS.
> KATHY AND MY BABY BACI[/B]


Hay Kathy and Baby Baci

I am only posting at the end of the post and you sweetie happen to be at the end... 
I have heard some comments.. I have stayed up late and done some research myself over the past week and found out some very TERIIBLE HORRIFIC INFO!
FIRST OF ALL whatever if anyone does not want to talk to me for talking bad about myrna they can kiss my behind. I AM DISGUSTED SOOOOOO SICKENED BY THE info I did not know... and I feel sooo ignorant for going and paying the amount of money I did for my baby,, but this direct comment that I am about to post is straight from USDA \ PET SHOP PUPPIES .. So fyi anyone that thinks USDA Breeders are OK? THINK AGAIN PEOPLE!!!

MY baby Lucy came from a mill.... I am still trying to deal with this... 
BUT FYI YALLLL
USDA??? PUPPY MILL! ANYONE SUPPORTING MYRNA NEEDS TO GO TO CONFESSION!

Now if this message MYRNA DOES NOT SADDEN YOU THEN SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Hi Stephanie, yes, she had 250 adult breeding dogs and that was several years ago. Tulsa World reports she has numerous USDA violations.

As for reporting it, it is important that you understand that puppy mills are legal. She is USDA licensed...USDA comes in and does an inspection every year and she is written up for violations of the Animal Welfare Act, and then continues as usual. The only way she could ever be shut down is if she had the same violation on the same animal three years in a row. And, she is not alone...there are thousands of USDA licensed puppy mills with 250 dogs...some have 2500 dogs. This is what I need the public to understand....puppy mills are legal.

I am also glad she has a loving home, but please understand that at least 250 dogs suffer every day at this place...living in wire cages, like rabbits, and the parents of your puppy will live a miserable life...their only savior being death itself. 

Kim "

basically yea usda can breed....ladee freekin daaa woop deee dooo daaaa....the laws dont even applt to them and if u cant see it then like i sais something is wrong with u... a byb is no diff 2 me than a mill after speaking to this girl today.... 

have a nice life myrna!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
pEACE BE WITH U U WIIIIL NEEED IT...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pEACE OUT!SAY WHAT U WANT i DONT CARE MY MIND IS MADE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Honeysmomma

I would just like to say a couple of things. I am not a client of Murna's (if you know so much about her at least spell her name correctly). I have never purchased a dog of hers so I am not defending her for that purpose. I actually found this forum when my kids and I googled her website to see her puppies. I happen to know her in our community and know the person she is and the love she has for her animals. I really can care less what you think of the way she raises and cares for her babies, mothers, etc. However, I do think it is irresponsible of you to make such rash judgements of people you know nothing about. You see a couple pics of her and her family (which by the way does include her two family Malts) and make your decision by the fact that she has "buy now " buttons on her site? Sure you're intitled to your own opinions but to make such assaults on a person is a little harsh.

No we are not one and the same! Sorry you didn't like my typing style. I happen to be a certified English teacher and at least my sentences were coherrent! 

I know it is senseless to try and defend someone I consider a friend against you - your opinions having been made. Maybe this is just a lesson for a nice person like Murna to be more careful who she decides to sell to and to whom she returns deposits. You would be surprised if you knew the person she is in our community and how much in the public eye that she is. It would be IMPOSSIBLE for her to run the kind of puppy operation you are accusing her of doing. 

Good luck with all your babies. I know you are doing what you are out of love for your breed and that is good. I do think you should consider the fact that what you do in life will come back some day. You know nothing of this person you are making such rash judgements about - just remember that.

Merry Christmas!


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## Bonnie's Mommie

> Sure you're *intitled* to your own opinions but to make such assaults on a person is a little harsh.
> 
> No we are not one and the same! Sorry you didn't like my typing style. _*I happen to be a certified English teacher*_ and at least my sentences were *coherrent*![/B]



Yup, no wonder No Child Left Behind isn't working.


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## bellaratamaltese

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=490798
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure you're *intitled* to your own opinions but to make such assaults on a person is a little harsh.
> 
> No we are not one and the same! Sorry you didn't like my typing style. _*I happen to be a certified English teacher*_ and at least my sentences were *coherrent*![/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup, no wonder No Child Left Behind isn't working.
> [/B]
Click to expand...

God dang it, you made me spit out my coke!


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## carrie

> Hay Kathy and Baby Baci
> 
> I am only posting at the end of the post and you sweetie happen to be at the end...
> I have heard some comments.. I have stayed up late and done some research myself over the past week and found out some very TERIIBLE HORRIFIC INFO!
> FIRST OF ALL whatever if anyone does not want to talk to me for talking bad about myrna they can kiss my behind. I AM DISGUSTED SOOOOOO SICKENED BY THE info I did not know... and I feel sooo ignorant for going and paying the amount of money I did for my baby,, but this direct comment that I am about to post is straight from USDA \ PET SHOP PUPPIES .. So fyi anyone that thinks USDA Breeders are OK? THINK AGAIN PEOPLE!!!
> 
> MY baby Lucy came from a mill.... I am still trying to deal with this...
> BUT FYI YALLLL
> USDA??? PUPPY MILL! ANYONE SUPPORTING MYRNA NEEDS TO GO TO CONFESSION!
> 
> Now if this message MYRNA DOES NOT SADDEN YOU THEN SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> "Hi Stephanie, yes, she had 250 adult breeding dogs and that was several years ago. Tulsa World reports she has numerous USDA violations.
> 
> As for reporting it, it is important that you understand that puppy mills are legal. She is USDA licensed...USDA comes in and does an inspection every year and she is written up for violations of the Animal Welfare Act, and then continues as usual. The only way she could ever be shut down is if she had the same violation on the same animal three years in a row. And, she is not alone...there are thousands of USDA licensed puppy mills with 250 dogs...some have 2500 dogs. This is what I need the public to understand....puppy mills are legal.
> 
> I am also glad she has a loving home, but please understand that at least 250 dogs suffer every day at this place...living in wire cages, like rabbits, and the parents of your puppy will live a miserable life...their only savior being death itself.
> 
> Kim "
> 
> basically yea usda can breed....ladee freekin daaa woop deee dooo daaaa....the laws dont even applt to them and if u cant see it then like i sais something is wrong with u... a byb is no diff 2 me than a mill after speaking to this girl today....
> 
> have a nice life myrna!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> pEACE BE WITH U U WIIIIL NEEED IT...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> pEACE OUT!SAY WHAT U WANT i DONT CARE MY MIND IS MADE UP!!!!!!!!!!!![/B]


LOL! i'm not laughing at you, i'm just identifying with you.... 
before you get mad, please continue reading...lol.

when i first learned about puppymills, i was HORRIFIED and became extremely angered.

i, myself, have a product of products of puppymills. my massimo's parents came from pet stores and, of course, pet stores get their "stock" from mills... 

finding all this sort of information out really can touch a nerve. it's truly disgusting and heartbreaking, what those dogs go though.... the lack of care is appalling... not to mention the health issues being spread to those poor dogs sold to stores who are in turn sold to unsuspecting buyers... sad. and the vicious cycle will never end until the world is educated about mills and pet stores. 

the only thing i can think of, for a start, is to make selling animals in stores illegal. i think that would be a good jumping off point... i understand it doesn't directly stop people like this lady...but that would have to come in time....

but until then, people like you and i carry the weight of the world on our shoulders (or so it feels) and left to spread the word...educate others. but in doing so, we anger other people... of course, supporters of millers/BYBs and people who have gotten their dogs from mills or BYBs, because they initially become defensive and are in denial. our best bet is that they cool off and realize the situation their beloved pet came from and spread the word as well. 

anyhoo...i'm sorry for going off on a tangent here. i'm really sick and it's just about time for my meds.

g'nite all!


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## Ladysmom

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=490798
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure you're *intitled* to your own opinions but to make such assaults on a person is a little harsh.
> 
> No we are not one and the same! Sorry you didn't like my typing style. _*I happen to be a certified English teacher*_ and at least my sentences were *coherrent*![/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup, no wonder No Child Left Behind isn't working.
> [/B]
Click to expand...

 :smrofl: :smrofl: :smrofl:

You might want to invest in a dictionary. The proper spelling is "coherent", not "coherrent".


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## bellaratamaltese

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=490802
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure you're *intitled* to your own opinions but to make such assaults on a person is a little harsh.
> 
> No we are not one and the same! Sorry you didn't like my typing style. _*I happen to be a certified English teacher*_ and at least my sentences were *coherrent*![/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup, no wonder No Child Left Behind isn't working.
> [/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :smrofl: :smrofl: :smrofl:
> 
> You might want to invest in a dictionary. The proper spelling is "coherent", not "coherrent".
> [/B]
Click to expand...

And it's 'entitled' not 'intitled'. I realize this is serious nitpicking and I apologize in advance, it's just your credibility is torn to shreds when you claim to be an english teacher and have such errors. Especially when the two words are put in bold to make an impact.


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## Honeysmomma

:HistericalSmiley: Well you do have a sense of humor and so do I. That was a good one! 

I will not be posting anymore. She knows she is not what you are accusing her of being and so do her friends, former customers, neighbors, etc. That will have to be enough I guess.

Good night and Happy Holidays.


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## carrie

....alright then.... *looks around*

seems this thread has run it's course.....it's a bit frayed at the end here... 

'nite girls... B)


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## ShilohsMom

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=490802
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure you're *intitled* to your own opinions but to make such assaults on a person is a little harsh.
> 
> No we are not one and the same! Sorry you didn't like my typing style. _*I happen to be a certified English teacher*_ and at least my sentences were *coherrent*![/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup, no wonder No Child Left Behind isn't working.
> [/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :smrofl: :smrofl: :smrofl:
> 
> You might want to invest in a dictionary. The proper spelling is "coherent", not "coherrent".
> [/B]
Click to expand...

 :smrofl: Indeed....the more I read this thread the more I agree these posts are cropping up by the same person and it isn't a friend of Murna but Murna herself. I am glad this thread is up and anyone searching for her name or adorable pals will find this thread linked on google. This site is an invaluable resource with all the collective experience and knowledge shared here.

I don't consider this thread a personal attack on an individual but a buyer beware against unscrupulous puppy millers who could care less if your white bundle of joy is healthy or not. I am convinced anyone who could breed dogs in such a manner doesn't love maltese or any animal for that matter but does love getting money out of your pocket. 

My Jackson is a rescue who was used for breeding only by a BYB. He is a very sweet dog that we've had absolutely no problems with- he's an angel grateful for our love. When I look at him I can't help but think about all the adult maltese who aren't so lucky as him to get out of their life in heck and are in far worse conditions than he was. 

I agree with whoever said this thread needs to kept alive. Knowledge is power. Sorry Murna but you won't get any sympathy here no matter how many identies you create.


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## kookla31

> I would just like to say a couple of things. I am not a client of Murna's (if you know so much about her at least spell her name correctly). I have never purchased a dog of hers so I am not defending her for that purpose. I actually found this forum when my kids and I googled her website to see her puppies. I happen to know her in our community and know the person she is and the love she has for her animals. I really can care less what you think of the way she raises and cares for her babies, mothers, etc. However, I do think it is irresponsible of you to make such rash judgements of people you know nothing about. You see a couple pics of her and her family (which by the way does include her two family Malts) and make your decision by the fact that she has "buy now " buttons on her site? Sure you're intitled to your own opinions but to make such assaults on a person is a little harsh.
> 
> No we are not one and the same! Sorry you didn't like my typing style. I happen to be a certified English teacher and at least my sentences were coherrent!
> 
> I know it is senseless to try and defend someone I consider a friend against you - your opinions having been made. Maybe this is just a lesson for a nice person like Murna to be more careful who she decides to sell to and to whom she returns deposits. You would be surprised if you knew the person she is in our community and how much in the public eye that she is. It would be IMPOSSIBLE for her to run the kind of puppy operation you are accusing her of doing.
> 
> Good luck with all your babies. I know you are doing what you are out of love for your breed and that is good. I do think you should consider the fact that what you do in life will come back some day. You know nothing of this person you are making such rash judgements about - just remember that.
> 
> Merry Christmas![/B]


AHHHHH FYI I KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT HER THAT IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW THE NAME IS SPELLED... SOOOOO I AM BEING KIND MY FRIEND! BACK THE heck OFF.. YEA ACTUALLY I DO KNOW ABOU THIS PERSON.. AND THAT IS WHY I AM SO IRATE... YOU AN THINK AND DO WHAT YOU CHOOSE... TOO TIRED.. TOOO TOO TIRED TO ARGUE WITH SOMEONE THAT HAS NO CARE FOR THE WELFARE FOR ANIMALS..WHATEVER YALL.. GByy!!


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## kookla31

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=490798
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would just like to say a couple of things. I am not a client of Murna's (if you know so much about her at least spell her name correctly). I have never purchased a dog of hers so I am not defending her for that purpose. I actually found this forum when my kids and I googled her website to see her puppies. I happen to know her in our community and know the person she is and the love she has for her animals. I really can care less what you think of the way she raises and cares for her babies, mothers, etc. However, I do think it is irresponsible of you to make such rash judgements of people you know nothing about. You see a couple pics of her and her family (which by the way does include her two family Malts) and make your decision by the fact that she has "buy now " buttons on her site? Sure you're intitled to your own opinions but to make such assaults on a person is a little harsh.
> 
> No we are not one and the same! Sorry you didn't like my typing style. I happen to be a certified English teacher and at least my sentences were coherrent!
> 
> I know it is senseless to try and defend someone I consider a friend against you - your opinions having been made. Maybe this is just a lesson for a nice person like Murna to be more careful who she decides to sell to and to whom she returns deposits. You would be surprised if you knew the person she is in our community and how much in the public eye that she is. It would be IMPOSSIBLE for her to run the kind of puppy operation you are accusing her of doing.
> 
> Good luck with all your babies. I know you are doing what you are out of love for your breed and that is good. I do think you should consider the fact that what you do in life will come back some day. You know nothing of this person you are making such rash judgements about - just remember that.
> 
> Merry Christmas![/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AHHHHH FYI I KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT HER THAT IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW THE NAME IS SPELLED... SOOOOO I AM BEING KIND MY FRIEND! BACK THE heck OFF.. YEA ACTUALLY I DO KNOW ABOU THIS PERSON.. AND THAT IS WHY I AM SO IRATE... YOU AN THINK AND DO WHAT YOU CHOOSE... TOO TIRED.. TOOO TOO TIRED TO ARGUE WITH SOMEONE THAT HAS NO CARE FOR THE WELFARE FOR ANIMALS..WHATEVER YALL.. GByy!!
> [/B]
Click to expand...

say what you wamt I have neeen up five times a night with a sick pup so if I mis spelled a word... BACK THE heck OFF... SERIOUSLY


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## Boobookit

> index.php?act=findpost&pid=490807
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE(Honeysmomma @ Dec 20 2007, 11:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=490798
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> <div class='quotemain'>Sure you're *intitled* to your own opinions but to make such assaults on a person is a little harsh.
> 
> No we are not one and the same! Sorry you didn't like my typing style. _*I happen to be a certified English teacher*_ and at least my sentences were *coherrent*![/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup, no wonder No Child Left Behind isn't working.
> [/B]
Click to expand...

 :smrofl: :smrofl: :smrofl: 

You might want to invest in a dictionary. The proper spelling is "coherent", not "coherrent".  
[/B][/QUOTE]

:smrofl: Indeed....the more I read this thread the more I agree these posts are cropping up by the same person and it isn't a friend of Murna but Murna herself. I am glad this thread is up and anyone searching for her name or adorable pals will find this thread linked on google. This site is an invaluable resource with all the collective experience and knowledge shared here.

I don't consider this thread a personal attack on an individual but a buyer beware against unscrupulous puppy millers who could care less if your white bundle of joy is healthy or not. I am convinced anyone who could breed dogs in such a manner doesn't love maltese or any animal for that matter but does love getting money out of your pocket. 

My Jackson is a rescue who was used for breeding only by a BYB. He is a very sweet dog that we've had absolutely no problems with- he's an angel grateful for our love. When I look at him I can't help but think about all the adult maltese who aren't so lucky as him to get out of their life in heck and are in far worse conditions than he was. 

I agree with whoever said this thread needs to kept alive. Knowledge is power. Sorry Murna but you won't get any sympathy here no matter how many identies you create.
[/B][/QUOTE]


*Yup, I am the one who said to keep this thread alive and I will say it again. Personally, I do believe it is one and the same person "sticking" up for her.....Certified English Teacher   :w00t: That was a joke, right? A big HA HA? Yes, and I am an astronaut!! Wanna take a ride on my rocket?...will send you right out to the moon and then we would be rid of at least one puppy mill....Hey it's a start.

As a volunteer for a Maltese Rescue these people make me sick. I see the damage these people do and it breaks my heart. Being a "valued" person in the community does NOT make her a responsible breeder and your saying it does just shows your ignorance to the fact.
*
*Bottom line is, we don't have to know Murna personally to know that what she does is cruel, just for the money, and inhuman.

Merry Christmas!
Marie & the Boys
*


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## Critterkrazy

> I really can care less what you think of the way she raises and cares for her babies, mothers, etc. However, I do think it is irresponsible of you to make such rash judgements of people you know nothing about. You see a couple pics of her and her family (which by the way does include her two family Malts) and make your decision by the fact that she has "buy now " buttons on her site? Sure you're intitled to your own opinions but to make such assaults on a person is a little harsh.[/B]


This is such a horrifically sad topic and whenever I read about mills/byb/hobby (yes, I consider them all one and the same) breeders I just get all worked up inside and I feel sorry for the first person who talks to me cuz they get an earful about them. Thankfully I am in a business where I can educate people on mills/byb/hobby breeders all the time. Most of the time they just shrug their shoulders and say "oh well". Then there are the ones who ask more questions. Gosh I just love those people. They are the ones who will help spread the word. 

The other night I typed up a nice long email for Murna regarding her breeding practices and her very customer friendly website. I use the word customer because she refers to her past puppy buyers as consumers. I never sent the email, although I still have it ready to go. Her website made me sicker to my stomach with every click of my mouse. Her website is no different then any other online store. Gee, I wonder if you can choose express mail to get the puppy faster? She keeps her dogs in a barn which is in the backyard.... now there's a perfect example of a backyard breeder. She can call herself whatever she wants and she can say how much she loves Maltese but does she really love her Maltese? I count 12 adult Maltese on her website, 7 females and 5 males. I wonder how many litters each of those females have had or will have before they fall apart. 

In a previous post it was said in her defense that she alternates her females. Please tell me how with 7 females and 4 current litters all born within the past 2 months.... how on Earth can you rotate them and still skip a heat cycle as recommended? How many months go by where there aren't any puppies for sale since there are only 3 remaining females available to have puppies and that is considering that the other 3 are within breeding age? Are the 2 family Malts pictured on the adults page or are they in addition to the 12 posted? And why aren't they all referred to as the family Malts. Oh wait..... I know..... they are just livestock. I am definately going to be keeping an eye on this one. 

OK, I have said my piece. I am going to shut my mouth before I get myself in trouble and require a "timeout" for bad behavior.


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## Harley & Dakotas Mum

This thread was dormant for 6 months ....... then out of the blue it was revived a week ago ... how come, what happened?


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## geslabon

I just got my Piolo from adorablepals too. and he just to have this issues but he is now doing much better. But after going to the vet he was diagnose for a positive of Giardia.
He has no flea but he has Giardia. Hes now taking antibiotic and will have test this sat. I posted something here because I had some issues with Piolo like the growling at the kids and I was not satisfied with his coat.. he was described as straight silky hair but he's coat is really more wavy and cotton like. he's nose is also longer than the other Maltese.. so I was not sure if he is really pure Maltese but the breeder provided with the ACK, Pedigree etc. Wow.. I thought she was a reputable breeder. 
She sound so sweet and always ans. my questions.


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## geslabon

Just recieved the DNA dog test from AKC.


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## geslabon

Just recieved the DNA dog test from AKC. I'm going to test it to Piolo. He is suppose to be a pure Maltese per Murna. I will give you guys an update as soon as I get the result.


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## Vanitysmom

> Just recieved the DNA dog test from AKC. I'm going to test it to Piolo. He is suppose to be a pure Maltese per Murna. I will give you guys an update as soon as I get the result.[/B]


The DNA WILL NOT tell you if your guy is a purebred Maltese.............all it will tell you is if it is out of the parents the breeder says he is. However, to do that both parents will have to be tested also.


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## jazzmalt

> I just got my Piolo from adorablepals too. and he just to have this issues but he is now doing much better. But after going to the vet he was diagnose for a positive of Giardia.[/B]


Thank you for providing this information for anyone else who may come along now or later and read this thread. As I'm sure your vet told you, giardia is a parasite found in contaminated or dirty water. That fact alone, even without all the other info about this breeder, is a HUGE red flag. If this breeder or one of her many sock puppets is still monitoring this thread, I'm sure she realizes that giardia is highly contagious, not only amongst her dogs, but can cross-infect from dogs to humans. All of her dogs need to be removed from her "barn" and treated for giardia, and her "barn" needs to be thoroughly disinfected and allowed to dry for several days before the dogs are returned to it. Giardia can be a seriously debilitating disease, especially when present in the immature immune system of a young dog. 

Geslabon, you're so awesome to be so conscientious about taking care of your baby, something to be admired by all who read this thread. I'm praying that your baby Piolo, with your love and care, will become a healthy, stable companion that brings you great happiness.


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