# Debarking



## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

I'm not sure if you guys have ever heard of debarking but I wanted some HO's about it. I would like to start by saying I'm not planning on having this procedure done to any animals of mine. This is just a topic that I find interesting and I wanted your HO's.

Debarking is a procedure where they either go through the mouth or in most small dogs through a cut under the skin. They then use a hole punching devise or laser to cut a part of the vocal cords of the pet. This will cause them to sound very horse(sp?) and rhaspy when attempting to bark. 

I have heard the pros that with dogs that can be excessive many times its a debarking or the dogs life.

A major con that I cant get over is that is not uncommon to have the scar tissue build up to much. This can cause the dog to have breathing issues. I have seen pets like this that have to be restricted on exercise and the heat that it can be in. 

This is a common procedure amoung breeders. how do you feel about this procedure and do you support breeders or other people who have several dogs doing this to control the barking?

Like I said I dont want to get anything bad going I just thought this was interesting and wanted to hear what others thought. Please forgive my typos its very late and I should take my contacts out because I cant see a dang thing.


here is a site that has some articles if you guys want to do more research.
http://mysticpup.net/RobinsNest/Twix/debark.html


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## charmypoo (Sep 11, 2004)

Cruel in my opinion. I would never consider it.


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by CharmyPoo_@Nov 10 2005, 01:48 AM
> *Cruel in my opinion.  I would never consider it.
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I agree, however how do you feel about breeders who do so? do you think this gives them a right to do so?


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## Char-Luv-4-Maltese (Feb 26, 2005)

> _Originally posted by sassy14830+Nov 10 2005, 02:03 AM-->
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I agree, however how do you feel about breeders who do so? do you think this gives them a right to do so?
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I feel it is very cruel and so sad for anybody to even consider let alone having it done. I love to hear my fluffs bark interesting to hear all the different barks I can tell which one it is that is barking. I could not imagine if I couldn't hear them talk.


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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

Bad, Bad, Bad!


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

Horrible.


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## mee (Jul 17, 2004)




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## puppymom (Jun 13, 2005)

HORRIBLE AWFUL CRUEL INHUMANE
IMO....the only reason to have a dog debarked is because you don't want to spend the time and energy to train (or retrain) the dog properly. If the dog is a rescue with behvioral issues it is understandable that this may may be difficult issue to surmount but then care needs to be taken in th placement. A dog with barking issues needs to be placed in a home that can deal with the barking in a HUMANE WAY. 

I know some PEOPLE I'd like to debark but dogs, NEVER!!!


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## Pippinsmom (Nov 29, 2004)

One of my mentors has 2 malts that are debarked. They were her first two show malts and the "professional" handler that she was using required that they be debarked, and even went so far as to take them himself for the procedure. It makes me sick to my stomach. To me it is just plain cruel...I would never do it to any of my dogs and I would never purchase from a breeder if I knew they were debarking their dogs. Sarah...why do you think this is common? I can honestly say that other than the above example, I can not think of one breeder I know who does this.


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## carrie (Aug 24, 2004)

that's horrible, i can't imagine massimo not voicing his opinion. any "breeder" that would consider doing that isn't a breeder. true breeders breed for the love of the breed...they would never mutilate their dogs -_- 



> _Originally posted by mee_@Nov 10 2005, 07:04 AM
> *do reputable breeders debark their dogs? or is it bybs and puppymills that do it?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=118549*


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i consider the lady who bred massimo to be a somewhat educated BYB, and she would have NEVER considered doing that to her dogs. she may have not genetically tested them, but she LOVES her dogs.


however, i have heard of many uninformed pet owners thinking it's a good idea. thinking it's a quick and easy way to silence their animals. while i was at the vet, this lady wanted to "devoice" her cat, because she howled.....my vet told her to spay her cat, and she wouldn’t go into heat and howl at night. (thank goodness!! )


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## Caesar's Mommie (Apr 8, 2004)

Terrible


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## dolcevita (Aug 3, 2005)

I think it's awful. Dogs bark for a reason. Many times, they bark to scare away a predator or other animal that might be threatening them. That's usually a dog's first line of defense. If they can't bark, I think they're more likely to bite, because that's the only defense mechanism available to them. I think Debarking a dog is cruel and selfish, and I would never buy an animal from a breeder that did that to their dogs.


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## RexsMom (Jun 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by puppymom_@Nov 10 2005, 06:43 AM
> *HORRIBLE AWFUL CRUEL INHUMANE
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> I know some PEOPLE I'd like to debark but dogs, NEVER!!!
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You took the words right out of my mouth...I feel exactly the same. I would never debark a dog. I love to hear Rex bark, he only barks when he has reason to, such as wanting to go outside, or someone is outside. I don't believe in altering a dog for convenience reasons, and I think cutting a dogs ears and tails is cruel too, which I know a lot of people do, but if they were meant to be that way they would have came that way. I always say, how would you like your ears cut or your voice taken away!


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## Terri (Jan 26, 2005)

I rate it right up there with declawing cats and clipping ears and tails. It is unnecessary if a person takes the time to properly train their animals.


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## k/c mom (Oct 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Terri_@Nov 10 2005, 09:28 AM
> *I rate it right up there with declawing cats and clipping ears and tails.  It is unnecessary if a person takes the time to properly train their animals.
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=118578*


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You are so right.... It especially makes me so angry when an animal is blamed for something because the owner did not train him to do otherwise. For example, if a dog snaps when his food is touched and then he is punished for doing that. Grrr, that makes me so angry







because it is the owner's fault for not training him to accept people messing with his food. IMHO most, if not all, behavior problems are the fault of the owner... not the dog.


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

The people next to us at the RV park have to samll poms, they are debarked. I think it is terrible, it makes me sick to think people are so lazy. They could have trained their dogs. I just soon not get to friendly with the neighbors, I would say something.


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## Teddyandme (Feb 6, 2005)

As a person who has had many many many bouts of not being able to speak above a whisper because my Larynix was crushed in an auto accident, I know how cruel it would be to take this vital part of any vocal soul away. It makes me angry when people do not think about what a procedure could mean for a little one (or big for that matter). How would they feel without a voice - I can say it is awful not to be able to communicate - How would they feel if someone started to cut them up.

I love the sound of my Teddy's voice - although this morning I had my window open a tiny amount so the little munchkin heard more and woke me up about 5 time through the night with an attack bark, around 4 I could take it no more and went and picked him up - I swear I had a maltese on a spit - he just kept turning around and around trying to get mommy to let him go. And of course - he made me laugh first thing in the morning with his shananagins. :new_Eyecrazy:







:new_Eyecrazy:
















A voice for anyone or anything is a wonderful thing - we should never take away a god given gift.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

In my opinion, if a person really loved their dogs, they would not do it to them. 
I know of some breeders (none of my friends or people I would buy from) who do this. Perhaps it is done because they have a lot more dogs than people know about, have the stuffed in cages in the garage or other outbuilding, and want to hide them from the public.


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

I feel so very strongly on this subject, and if someone can't take the time to train their pets then why mutilate them?
I have often read about this and have seen that in some cases the first attemp at debarking often fails so the poor animal has to go back for another attempt, how cruel is that?
I don't think there are many vets now who will actually do the procedure, and I hope it becomes outlawed. In Australia ear cropping and tail docking is becoming illegal in most states now and I don't know about debarking but I think that too is now illegal.
We were walking in the park a couple of weeks ago and there was a little Papillion there with his elderly owners. He was debarked, he wanted to communicate with Scooby and every time he attempted to bark he coughed because he couldn't get his breath. I had to stay away because I would have said something to the owners. I felt so sorry for that poor little guy.
My thoughts are if you don't want a dog that barks then don't get one, after all that is what dogs do. Go buy a stuffed toy that sits there and does nothing.


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## HappyB (Feb 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by mee_@Nov 10 2005, 06:04 AM
> *i strongly disagree
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> do reputable breeders debark their dogs? or is it bybs and puppymills that do it?
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=118549*


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My question is that if a person does this, are they really "reputable"? Would it send up a red flag, and perhaps is there more to learn about their breeding program. We all remember the breeder in Tennessee who did this, and she had a garage full of dogs, yet, hid behind her show dogs so that people only though she had a few.


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## sassy's mommy (Aug 29, 2005)

I personally think that is the cruelest, ugliest, inhumane act that someone could possibly do to their pet, whether they are breeders of not. No one has the right to take a dogs voice away. There are other measures that can be used, ie training. People don't take childrens voices away for being noisy why would they take dogs voices away for being noisy. It is all about training. I think debarking shoud be a felony offense.


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## joe (Jan 5, 2003)

i think its wrong and no reputable breeder would do it, although i am sure its done but never mentioned to buyers, friends or family, because they themselves know its wrong, now having said that, and having a barker, i do sometimes think how nice one quiet day would be :lol: but never by those means, it takes training and time and thats it, I would say Lizzie barks 50% less now than she did 2 months ago


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## elliesmomie (Apr 9, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Joe_@Nov 10 2005, 10:50 AM
> *i think its wrong and no reputable breeder would do it, although i am sure its done but never mentioned to buyers, friends or family, because they themselves know its wrong, now having said that, and having a barker, i do sometimes think how nice one quiet day would be  :lol: but never by those means, it takes training and time and thats it, I would say Lizzie barks 50% less now than she did 2 months ago
> <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=118671*


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how have you gotten Lizzie to bark less. l.e. and i are battling with the barking issue right now. although, yes i would love her to be quiet all the time, the thought hasn't even crossed my mind that i should debark her. i know that it's something that i have to train her to learn, and i'm willing to stick it out. i can't imagine not being able to talk to her and have her "talk" back.


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## Scoobydoo (May 26, 2005)

> _Originally posted by elliesmomie+Nov 10 2005, 03:05 PM-->
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how have you gotten Lizzie to bark less. l.e. and i are battling with the barking issue right now. although, yes i would love her to be quiet all the time, the thought hasn't even crossed my mind that i should debark her. i know that it's something that i have to train her to learn, and i'm willing to stick it out. i can't imagine not being able to talk to her and have her "talk" back.
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The squirt bottle works wonders for me with Mr Scooby blabber mouth who has to bark at his own shadow. All I have to do is say "do ya want a squirt?" and show him the bottle and it is instant silence and he sits down on his butt because he knows that is the target


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## msmagnolia (Sep 8, 2004)

I had never even heard of this until recently. I don't know of anyone who has ever done it and I can't imagine that I would ever think it was a good idea.


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## Ladysmom (Oct 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sassy's mommy_@Nov 10 2005, 11:06 AM
> *I personally think that is the cruelest, ugliest, inhumane act that someone could possibly do to their pet, whether they are breeders of not. No one has the right to take a dogs voice away. There are other measures that can be used, ie training. People don't take childrens voices away for being noisy why would they take dogs voices away for being noisy. It is all about training. I think debarking shoud be a felony offense.
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Debarking is actually illegal in New Jersey and Ohio (vicious dogs only) and I believe West Virginia was trying to pass debarking legislation, too.


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## sassy14830 (Jan 19, 2005)

I found the info about this while searching about declawing a cat. I didnt plan on it seeming to be a target on any certain person. I was checking on the new laser declawing they do. I found several articles about debarking and tail docking and ear croping. I'm on the fence a little. I think it is a shame that some people probly resort to this with out attempting training. This is seen as a quick fix. I wonder what if it means the dog stays in their loving home and receiving this procedure or it must be taking to a shelter. 

I say this mainly because it reminds me of our cat clawing issue. We dearly love our cat, I have seen and assisted many declawing procedures and I felt very bad for the cats. The recovery can be horribly painful. We have tried every product on the market to prevent our cat from destroying things. The sticky stuff he doesnt mind it just claws right through, the soft caps we have used before on other cats and it worked great.
he hates them soo much that he pulls them off and when he does so he rips his nails off. We have been to the vet several times having to medicate his paws for infection. We have tried training methods to the point of having 3 animal behaviorist come and help. He acts great when we are home but once we leave he scratches every thing up. 

We feel like we have tried everything and are running out of options. I hate to do this but he shreads everything from typical stuff like furniture to blankets and trashcans its nuts. 
He is such a great cat other wise but It have gotten to the point where we have to stop this or he has to find a new home. We live in a rental and I dont even want to know what we are going to do about the damage.

So I guess like all subjects it depends on the whole situation but everyone has there own ideas on what would be right. Any advice would be great I think we have tried it all but who knows?


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## mpd (Jun 2, 2005)

Those people should never own a dog if they can't stand a little barking!


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## miko's mommy (Feb 8, 2005)

I don't know about declawing cats -- I am really not a cat person and we have tried owning a cat, and realized that we are dog people to the bone. So maybe that's why I think declawing is okay.

The debarking seems really mean to me. I would never do it!!!! Miko is not a yappy doggy but if someone comes to the door or he sees dogs through windows, he will bark. I can't imagine owning over 10 dogs like him or worse. Once they get going, its probably hard to stop. And I bet there are definitely lots of breeders than own a LOT more than 10 dogs. Even with the best behaved dogs, it must get pretty loud. You would need to live in the middle of nowhere to avoid neighbors complaining in those types of situations.


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## Toby's Mom (May 7, 2004)

Debarking is cruel! I couldn't imagine doing that to either Wally or Toby. Wally doesn't bark or howl so that is just wonderful in itself, but Toby barks on occasion and I love hearing it. Yes, it does get annoying at times, but it is certainly something we are able to control. Sometimes I hype him up just so I can hear him bark.









This question is a little off the subject, but I have been wondering about this for a while now. I don't really know anything about cats (I am a dog person and never been around cats  ) but it seems that lately I have heard so much controversy over declawing of cats. Is this something that has recently come under fire? I always thought declawing was just something you did to a cat like having it spayed/neutered.


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## rubyjeansmom (Jan 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by puppymom_@Nov 10 2005, 04:43 AM
> *I know some PEOPLE I'd like to debark but dogs, NEVER!!!
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## Brinkley & Neyland's Mom (Jun 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nichole_@Nov 11 2005, 12:54 AM
> *This question is a little off the subject, but I have been wondering about this for a while now.  I don't really know anything about cats (I am a dog person and never been around cats   ) but it seems that lately I have heard so much controversy over declawing of cats.  Is this something that has recently come under fire?  I always thought declawing was just something you did to a cat like having it spayed/neutered.
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I wondered that too. Growing up, I didn't know anyone who didn't de-claw their cats. When we got Spencer, he had already been de-clawed front/back. I never de-clawed my other b/c I didn't want to mess with the litter box change while their feet healed. It was never a problem with Spencer not having them, and the other keeping theirs.

Then I started reading articles where people opposed it b/c it was like pulling our nails out at the quick or something like that. Supposedly cruel and very painful while healing. Supposedly if you give them the appropriate thing to scratch on, they don't ruin things in your house. I beg to differ.







We have several scratched door facings and corners of carpet that are shredded.


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## pico's parent (Apr 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by LadysMom+Nov 10 2005, 04:03 PM-->
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Debarking is actually illegal in New Jersey and Ohio (vicious dogs only) and I believe West Virginia was trying to pass debarking legislation, too.
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That's odd....why would you want a vicious dog debarked? Wouldn't you WANT to hear them before they attacked?

I can think of no mitigating reason to debark any dog. Period. Find a new home for the dog because if you can't deal with normal barking....you're not a good home for a dog. Find a new home for the dog if you can't deal with excessive barking because you are not giving the dog the activity, attention and training it needs and you're not a good home for the dog. 

I am in no way speaking about anyone on this forum, just in general.


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## Chelsey (Dec 17, 2004)

Chester barks a lot and sometime drives us crazy.. but I would never debark him.
Regarless of his sometimes bad barking habits... he alerts us when something is not right. The first month we moved in he alerted us that the back vinyl siding was hanging of our back side wall out side. He looked up and kept barking at the sealing from the basement. So I went and investigated what was up with him. When I looked out our window there it was hanging off hitting against the window. My husband had to remove it and call the town home people to come over the next day and fix it.. 
he also lets us know when strange people are in our back yard. They keep hoping over our fence and Chester just knows. I can also tell by the sound Chester makes if he is feeling sick or if he has to be let out at night. 

After reading the article, I really don't even see the point of debarking if the dog will still have a horse vocal cord. That would just sound awful and it sound like it hurts too. I think it is just cruel and unnecessary.


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## Sylphide and Shrek's Mom (Dec 4, 2004)

I also think that debarking is CRUEL and INHUMANE. 

As for breeders debarking, let's not forget that Jennifer Siliski was personally debarking those poor tortured Maltese that she kept hidden in her garage, stacked cage upon cage in filthy conditions, so that their clandestine presence wouldn't be revealed and she could keep up the illusion that she was a reputable breeder, when in fact she was a puppy miller of the worst kind.


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## bruinkoala (Aug 18, 2005)

I just did a search on debark and found this old thread. I have to reply since I am so "bugged" by what I encountered today. My husband and I took Bruno to the dog park and there were 4 malteses. I started talking to their owner since we are contemplating on getting a playmate for Bruno. She said she actually has 6 malteses and a poodle, and they get along just great and that she just LOVES her dogs. Well... I asked her if her dogs are pretty calm and not barkers (since Bruno was the ONLY dog voicing himself at the dog park). She said that she actually had to de-bark 2 of them since they were "out of control" and she couldn't handle them. After her comment, I made my way to the other side of the park. She is the first person I ever met that de-barked her dogs and I just couldn't say another word to her. Ahhh!!!!! I just think that is exremely cruel! I just had to get this out of my chest! I have been telling everyone I spoke to today about this... those poor doggies lost their voice just because their owner wouldn't train them. Poor babies







!!!


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

I'm totally against debarking, i have seen many poor baby's who have had that done. I just want to kick the ownwers in the butt and detalk them


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## wagirl98665 (Jan 5, 2006)

I think it's a horrible thing to consider doing for any reason. I had a neighbor in CA that had a dog that mostly stayed outside during the day, only came in at night. This dog barked non stop from early in the morning until she got home from work in the evening. The neighbors were going crazy over this and had complained over and over and nothing ever got resolved. The neighbors finally got a petition going around and apparently got enough siggys to take legal action, which they did. Everyone went to court and the neighbor with the dog was ordered to either get rid of her dog or make some kind of other arraigments to stop this barking. The neighbor only had 30 days to take care of the barking dog and since this was a small town with not much news it was all over the front page of the local paper. The only solution my neighbor could come up with was having the dog de-barked, vocal cords removed. Well long story short she didn't have it done, but ended up getting kicked out of her house because of her barking dog. I have no idea what the point of me telling you all this is, other then I think it's so wrong. Dogs bark, that's what they do and if for any reason a person can't handle it, find the dog another home.


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## phesty (May 30, 2006)

Here's a video made by Hearts United for Animals about puppy mills. Prisoners of Greed
On this video, they state that many puppy mills debark their dogs by ramming a metal rod down their throats. I can't imagine how painful that is! I recommend watching the video, it's very sad, but really brings the point home about puppy mills.

Josie says: If mommy ever even thought about debarking me, I'd just start biting her, rather than barking at her!


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## bellasmommy (May 8, 2005)

I don't personally believe debarking or declawing is ok. When people get dogs they do so knowing that dogs bark for a variety of reasons. The barking should be expected. Lassie barked. Pluto barked. Everyone grew up knowing that dogs bark. In my mind, the same goes for cats. Cats claw things, knead things, whatever because its part of their natural instinctual drive. However, I've never had a cat so I couldn't really feel comfortable offering advice. Personally, if the cat was clawing furniture, walls, etc. I would just live with it. You say the cat is hurting itself though, I guess in that case I would be stumped. Good luck finding a solution.


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## samsonsmom (May 4, 2005)

In the (in)famous case of Maltese breeder (and I use the term loosely) Jennifer Siliski, one of the things that came out in court (besides the 231 maltese shoved into her garage in crates stacked 4 deep with pee and poop running down from row 4 to row 1, was her practice of routinely running a pair of sharp scisors down the little one's throat and clipping the vocal cords. She was convicted of animal cruelty and court ordered to cease her breeding business. The court allowed her to keep a few doggies that she claimed were family pets, but I'll bet you the bitch (with apologies to female dogs everywhere) is somewhere in Williamson County Tennessee still abusing doggies and selling them under another name. After all, Jennifer Siliski was not her name either. I consider the practice cruel beyond belief, and I cannot imagine never again hearing Sammie look me in the face and bark the three distinctive barks that say, "I love you." 

Jennifer, and others like her, should be lynched. 

Samsonsmom

Can I bite her mom? Sammie

Absolutely. Mom.


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## dogloverx3 (Apr 14, 2006)

I think it is barbaric to debark a dog , not to mention cruel . Dogs vocalize to communicate , why not remove everything else too ? If you don't like a dog barking , don't own a dog . On a lighter note I was admiring a garden once , and a HUGE attack Doberman leapt at the fence - all teeth gnashing - It had been debarked ( that's why I didn't know it was there ) . Sarah


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## lorraine (Jun 24, 2006)

I am totally opposed to debarking. I have never owned a cat but do not appreciate the idea of declawing them. I do wonder, however, how many people have (non-working) dogs without dew claws.


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## ladypup (Oct 22, 2006)

why would you intentionally cripple your dog?
this does not make sense to me at all!!


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## my baby (Aug 22, 2006)

I dont think there is much to add it has already been said. I think it is the cruelist thing I have ever heard of!!! I didnt even know it existed untill reading this thread. I think it must be a practice created for lazy people who cant be bothered to train there dogs.
I just hope I dont buy a malt in the future from a breeder who uses debarking without me realizing!!!


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