# Early Kidney Disease



## maltesemom (Jan 9, 2005)

I haven't posted in a loooonnnggg time, but I do keep up with posts from time to time. My oldest girl Lacy (almost 14) , was just diagnosed with early kidney disease. She doesn't really have many symptoms yet except drinking and peeing excessively. She's still eating well. Both of my girls have been on Fromm kibble for years and have done well - both have been very healthy. So naturally I am very upset and am looking for advice as to what kind of diet to switch her to. The vet of course recommended Science Diet k/d, but I know that probably isn't the best food around. I would be willing to homecook if it would help prolong her life. The vet also recommended Azodyl once a day. I would appreciate any advice that you could give me and if any of you have gone through the same thing, what you fed your babies. 

Thank you so much,
Janis


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

Janis, I'm sorry you've received this news about your baby! I would suggest that you see a holistic vet and ask his/her suggestion on diet and also any supplements that might slow the progression or make your fluff more comfortable longer. I don't know what part of Indiana you are in but I know of an excellent one in Crown Point.

Good luck!


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## Sylie (Apr 4, 2011)

I am have come to believe that kibble is hard on the kidneys. I switched my dogs to Primal frozen raw (from Fromm kibble). It is been a common practice to keep our dogs on a relatively low protein food, because it was said that high protein is hard on the kidneys and liver. Newer thinking is that it is low quality protein and a lack of moisture in the food which is damaging.This theory seems more logical to me.

Still, she has been in good health for fourteen years, that is wonderful. 

If you want to try raw, and can't find it frozen locally, there are freeze dried choices as well. Even Fromm canned would probably be easier for her to process than kibble.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Chronic Renal Failure

This is a very easy read article on renal failure. Is your pup chronic or acute?
I am watching Lisi as her BUN was elevated in her most recent blood work and she has a funny breath smell which was first noticeable last spring when she got so sick. I don't think it is just bad breath but the vet says her BUN could be elevated because of a temporary dehydration. How did you know? What tests were done?
I do know that it is important to watch calcium/phosphorous levels are kept in balance. Apparently only when the dog shows an 80% or so loss is it evident.


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## rrwtrw (Dec 23, 2008)

maltesemom said:


> I haven't posted in a loooonnnggg time, but I do keep up with posts from time to time. My oldest girl Lacy (almost 14) , was just diagnosed with early kidney disease. She doesn't really have many symptoms yet except drinking and peeing excessively. She's still eating well. Both of my girls have been on Fromm kibble for years and have done well - both have been very healthy. So naturally I am very upset and am looking for advice as to what kind of diet to switch her to. The vet of course recommended Science Diet k/d, but I know that probably isn't the best food around. I would be willing to homecook if it would help prolong her life. The vet also recommended Azodyl once a day. I would appreciate any advice that you could give me and if any of you have gone through the same thing, what you fed your babies.
> 
> Thank you so much,
> Janis



Janis - I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this. My previous Maltese, Austin, was diagnosed with chronic kidney disease at the age of 10. We later learned that it was not *chronic* kidney disease but rather acute kidney injury due to an adverse reaction to NSAIDs, specifically Metacam (Meloxicam). I joined a yahoo group called K9KidneyDiet and learned how to homecook for him. The Hill's K/D and the other prescription kidney diets are VERY high fat and low in protein. A lot of dogs in that group, especially the smaller dogs had trouble with the prescription food and some developed pancreatitis due to the high fat levels. Newer research over the past 10 years, has revealed that phosphorus restriction is the most important consideration for kidney disease; not protein restriction. I have the following site to be very useful.

DogAware.com Health: Kidney Disease in Dogs

Here is an excerpt from the section on dietary guidelines:

Based on research done in the last ten years (see s a Low Protein Diet Necessary or Desirable?), that the only time it is necessary to feed a low protein diet is when your dog is *uremic*, which generally means *BUN* is over *80* *mg/dL* (equivalent to *28.6 mmol/L*), *creatinine* is over *4.0 mg/dL* (equivalent to *354 µmol/L*), and the dog is showing symptoms such as *vomiting*, *nausea*,*inappetence*, *ulcers* and *lethargy*, which are caused by the build-up of nitrogen in the blood. Even then, feeding low protein will not extend life, but it will help the dog feel better. *Subcutaneous fluids* can also help at this time (and before). 

This is one of the most important papers on low protein diets in the treatment of canine kidney disease.

http://www.dogaware.com/files/bovee.pdf

My dog eventually recovered from the acute kidney injury and lived another 8 years eventually dying at the age of 18 from natural causes. I would encourage you to learn as much as you can about kidney disease so you can be a better advocate for Lacy. 

DogAware.com Health: Tests used to Diagnose Kidney Disease in Dogs

I would also encourage you to join one of the yahoo groups for dogs with kidney disease, k9kidneydiet or k9kidneys as they have a lot of experience with living with kidney disease. 

Out of curiosity, what were the readings on Lacy's BUN and CREA? Also, did they do an urinalysis? What was the Urine Specific Gravity?

Sorry this is so long and I hope some of this helps...

Terre


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## Chardy (Oct 30, 2008)

rrwtrw said:


> Janis - I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this. My previous Maltese, Austin, was diagnosed with chronic kidney disease at the age of 10. We later learned that it was not *chronic* kidney disease but rather acute kidney injury due to an adverse reaction to NSAIDs, specifically Metacam (Meloxicam). I joined a yahoo group called K9KidneyDiet and learned how to homecook for him. The Hill's K/D and the other prescription kidney diets are VERY high fat and low in protein. A lot of dogs in that group, especially the smaller dogs had trouble with the prescription food and some developed pancreatitis due to the high fat levels. Newer research over the past 10 years, has revealed that phosphorus restriction is the most important consideration for kidney disease; not protein restriction. I have the following site to be very useful.
> 
> DogAware.com Health: Kidney Disease in Dogs
> 
> ...


==================================================================================================


Terre was one of the moderators on the yahoo K-9 Kidney diet group and is extremely knowledgeable with this!! Thanks Terre for sharing your knowledge.


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

We just received the results on Matilda's senior panel, her BUN levels were up
Her BUN is 35 last year it was 22 her BUN/CREAT RATIO is 39 last year 22
We are worried sick, the vet put her on Hill's KD, Matilda doesn't like the kibble.
We also bought a can of the same brand, she doesn't like that either.
I'm so glad you started this thread I was about to make one.
I'm so worried


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## jmm (Nov 23, 2004)

Home cooking is the ideal for kidney dogs! If you are willing, I would consider this your main treatment! 
Did they do a urine culture to make sure there's no infection?


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## maltesemom (Jan 9, 2005)

Thank you so much for all your ideas and input. Maggie - I live about an hour from Crystal (Crystal and Zoe). I think she has seen a holistic vet, right? Do you know if it is the same one you mentioned?

Sandi and Terre - her blood test results were: BUN - 37, Creatine - 1.6 and BUN/Creatine ratio - 23. This was not a fasting test - I may have it repeated after fasting and see if the results are different. The Urine Specific Gravity was 1.020. This was not the first catch of the morning either. Maybe that would make a difference also?

Paula - I know how you feel. I am also worried about Lacy :smcry:

JMM - I would be more than happy to cook for Lacy (and Maddie) if it would be the best thing for her.

Do any of you have any experience with Azodyl?


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## maggieh (Dec 16, 2007)

maltesemom said:


> Thank you so much for all your ideas and input. Maggie - I live about an hour from Crystal (Crystal and Zoe). I think she has seen a holistic vet, right? Do you know if it is the same one you mentioned?
> 
> Sandi and Terre - her blood test results were: BUN - 37, Creatine - 1.6 and BUN/Creatine ratio - 23. This was not a fasting test - I may have it repeated after fasting and see if the results are different. The Urine Specific Gravity was 1.020. This was not the first catch of the morning either. Maybe that would make a difference also?
> 
> ...


Yes, Dr. Dan Beatty is her vet and I've met him as well. He's just too far for me to take my girls to (especially when there's a great holistic vet in Lisle). His website: e-Vet Clinic | Straight Talkin' Information on Dog and Horse Health. He is fabulous!

He will want to see the test results from your vet and hopefully the two of them can cooperate on a treatment plan.


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## edelweiss (Apr 23, 2010)

Lisi's BUN/Creatine Ration is 32. I talked w/the vet here yest. & he is not at all worried about it (although the high norm is (4)-27. He thinks she may just have been dehydrated. I am thinking of watching phosphorus & adding a bit of calcium to the diet---not much at all & retesting later. If I can get a urine sample I will take it in on Thurs when she has her dental. 
Paula, I understand that the kidney food is not very tasty so they don't usually like it. 
Does Mathilda have a strange breath smell?


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

edelweiss said:


> Lisi's BUN/Creatine Ration is 32. I talked w/the vet here yest. & he is not at all worried about it (although the high norm is (4)-27. He thinks she may just have been dehydrated. I am thinking of watching phosphorus & adding a bit of calcium to the diet---not much at all & retesting later. If I can get a urine sample I will take it in on Thurs when she has her dental.
> Paula, I understand that the kidney food is not very tasty so they don't usually like it.
> Does Mathilda have a strange breath smell?


 
no bad breath, I would never have guessed anything was wrong. We are thinking of having our vet redo the panel in a couple weeks. This time I will make sure she fasts. Also no urine test, I'll ask for one then. We will do whatever we can, I love that girl, she's my heart baby:wub:


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## mysugarbears (Aug 13, 2007)

Sylie said:


> I am have come to believe that kibble is hard on the kidneys. I switched my dogs to Primal frozen raw (from Fromm kibble). It is been a common practice to keep our dogs on a relatively low protein food, because it was said that high protein is hard on the kidneys and liver. Newer thinking is that it is low quality protein and a lack of moisture in the food which is damaging.This theory seems more logical to me.
> 
> Still, she has been in good health for fourteen years, that is wonderful.
> 
> If you want to try raw, and can't find it frozen locally, there are freeze dried choices as well. Even Fromm canned would probably be easier for her to process than kibble.



I have to agree with you Sylvia. Our cat is currently on the Hill's dry kibble for kidneys, she won't even eat the crappy canned food, has to be dry. I have tried several canned foods, frozen raw and the only thing she will eat was the Fromm's dry. Unfortunately with cats you can't put down for 15-20 and pick up for next meal like you can with dogs. She keeps getting UTI's. I don't understand her being so picky, she was a stray cat so you think she wouldn't be so picky and eat what is given to her but no!!!! I asked her if she set up a campfire and cooked what she caught when living life in the woods and streets. :wacko1: She will not eat any type of wet food.:smilie_tischkante:

I hope all of the pups with possible renal problems get healthy soon and their levels go back to normal with a new diet.


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## rrwtrw (Dec 23, 2008)

maltesemom said:


> Sandi and Terre - her blood test results were: BUN - 37, Creatine - 1.6 and BUN/Creatine ratio - 23. This was not a fasting test - I may have it repeated after fasting and see if the results are different. The Urine Specific Gravity was 1.020. This was not the first catch of the morning either. Maybe that would make a difference also?
> 
> Do any of you have any experience with Azodyl?


Janis - I agree that it would be a good idea to have the blood tests repeated when Lacy is fasting. CREA is specific to the kidneys and it appears that this is at the high end of normal, BUN appears to be very slightly elevated and USG is low (not sure of your lab's reference range). 

Based on my experience with my own dog, I found that BUN can vary widely and his was high for a very long time. BUN may be influenced by eating and dogs that are fed higher protein diets have a higher than normal BUN. Lacy's USG appears to be low, but it was not a first catch of the morning and it will also vary widely based on levels of hydration / water consumption. The urine for USG does not have to be sterile so you can catch the first urine of the day and take it with you to your appointment for bloodwork. I found that a long handled soup ladle worked well for collecting the urine midstream.

I am not a huge fan of Azodyl. It is simply an enteric coated probiotic which is supposed to work as a nitrogen trap. The pills are most effective when given whole and I felt they were much to big to give to my Maltese without high degrees of stress. 

As I mentioned earlier, I would suggest joining one of the Yahoo groups, especially the K9KidneyDiet as well as thoroughly reviewing the Dogaware website section on kidney disease (Dogaware is Mary Straus' website - she is a frequent contributor to Whole Dog Journal). The K9KidneyDiet moderators stay very up to date kidney disease and have all lived with dogs with kidney disease. They will look at your dog's bloodwork, urinalysis and based upon their experience, they will help you with guidelines for homefeeding your dog. As the disease progresses, dogs with kidney disease become very fussy about food and often will not eat the same thing day in, day out. This is why it helps to get an early start on homefeeding when your dog is still in the early stages. They will also help with supplements and other things they have found helpful in their own experience. They have files with recipes but the focus is not on *recipes* but rather helping you learn how to work with the nutritional guidelines for you own experience.

Terre


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## rrwtrw (Dec 23, 2008)

Matilda's mommy said:


> We just received the results on Matilda's senior panel, her BUN levels were up
> Her BUN is 35 last year it was 22 her BUN/CREAT RATIO is 39 last year 22
> We are worried sick, the vet put her on Hill's KD, Matilda doesn't like the kibble.
> We also bought a can of the same brand, she doesn't like that either.
> ...


Paula - With B/C ratio of 39 and BUN of 35, I believe the CREA is 0.9 which should be within the normal range. What was the CREA and what is the normal range? CREA is the most important indicator of kidney function. I agree that it would be a good idea to retest her bloodwork after she has been fasted. She also needs to have a urinalysis done. If high BUN is the only thing that is out of range, I would not put my own dog on Hills K/D or any other veterinary prescription diet. She could have simply been dehydrated. 

Terre


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## Matilda's mommy (Jun 1, 2005)

rrwtrw said:


> Paula - With B/C ratio of 39 and BUN of 35, I believe the CREA is 0.9 which should be within the normal range. What was the CREA and what is the normal range? CREA is the most important indicator of kidney function. I agree that it would be a good idea to retest her bloodwork after she has been fasted. She also needs to have a urinalysis done. If high BUN is the only thing that is out of range, I would not put my own dog on Hills K/D or any other veterinary prescription diet. She could have simply been dehydrated.
> 
> Terre




Terre, Matilda's CREA 0.9 REF. RANGE 0.5-2.0 
I am going to wait a few days and have her retested this time I will tell them I want a urinalysis test also.
Matilda's appointment the day she had her blood work was at 4:00, she had breakfast, we eat early and she had her dinner at 2:30 that day. I do however notice she drinks a lot of water and goes potty at least 8 times a day.
She will not eat the kibble the doc gave us.
I googled and found a recipe for her
Today she will have 1/4 cup lean ground beef and three cups of potatoes, I will check out the sites you gave posted.
We want to be a head of this if she does have kidney issues. 
Hubby and I cry whenever we talk or think about this.
Matilda is my heart girl, she's everything to me.


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## rrwtrw (Dec 23, 2008)

Matilda's mommy said:


> Terre, Matilda's CREA 0.9 REF. RANGE 0.5-2.0
> I am going to wait a few days and have her retested this time I will tell them I want a urinalysis test also.
> Matilda's appointment the day she had her blood work was at 4:00, she had breakfast, we eat early and she had her dinner at 2:30 that day. I do however notice she drinks a lot of water and goes potty at least 8 times a day.
> She will not eat the kibble the doc gave us.
> ...



I really feel for you. Considering the CREA was right in the middle of normal, was there something else that caused the vet to think that this is kidney disease? When you fast her, make sure she has access to water. She definitely should have a urinalysis. The frequency of urination would cause me to be concerned about a urinary tract infection. Do you see her licking her area and/or straining at all? Please do read through the website so you can discuss with your veterinarian. 

Head pats to Matilda. Hang in there...

Terre


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## maltesemom (Jan 9, 2005)

Great News!!!! I had Lacy's blood work re-tested (fasting this time) and everything was back within NORMAL limits! I am beyond thrilled! The vet's office called this morning with the news - I don't have the paperwork yet to compare numbers, but I am so relieved. Still not sure why the increase in drinking and peeing, but apparently not something to be worried about. Her WBC was a little low, but the vet didn't seem concerned about it.

Through all of this worry, I have considered changing her diet anyway as she is getting older. I will continue to research the home cooked vs raw or dehydrated to see what would be best for her (and Maddie also - she will be 11 soon).

Thank you all for your kind words and your helpful input!!!


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## Pooh's mommy (Aug 31, 2014)

maltesemom said:


> Great News!!!! I had Lacy's blood work re-tested (fasting this time) and everything was back within NORMAL limits! I am beyond thrilled! The vet's office called this morning with the news - I don't have the paperwork yet to compare numbers, but I am so relieved. Still not sure why the increase in drinking and peeing, but apparently not something to be worried about. Her WBC was a little low, but the vet didn't seem concerned about it.
> 
> Through all of this worry, I have considered changing her diet anyway as she is getting older. I will continue to research the home cooked vs raw or dehydrated to see what would be best for her (and Maddie also - she will be 11 soon).
> 
> Thank you all for your kind words and your helpful input!!!


Janis, That is Great News!!!!!!!!!!!!

:chili::chili::chili:

Good Luck :thumbsup: on your food search


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## rrwtrw (Dec 23, 2008)

maltesemom said:


> Great News!!!! I had Lacy's blood work re-tested (fasting this time) and everything was back within NORMAL limits! I am beyond thrilled! The vet's office called this morning with the news - I don't have the paperwork yet to compare numbers, but I am so relieved. Still not sure why the increase in drinking and peeing, but apparently not something to be worried about. Her WBC was a little low, but the vet didn't seem concerned about it.
> 
> Through all of this worry, I have considered changing her diet anyway as she is getting older. I will continue to research the home cooked vs raw or dehydrated to see what would be best for her (and Maddie also - she will be 11 soon).
> 
> Thank you all for your kind words and your helpful input!!!


==== Such good news. Very happy for you!:aktion033::aktion033::aktion033::aktion033::aktion033:


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