# Vegans, Vegetarians, Etc.



## Julie03 (Mar 18, 2010)

Are any of you vegans, vegetarians, pescetarians, etc.?

I've tried several times in the past to stop consuming meat products (to be healthier) but always gave up after a few days. In November of 2009, I saw a video on animal cruelty in farms and slaugter houses. I was so disgusted with how these animals were treated. It was just awful and I felt really bad for eating meat (I was a huge meat lover). I decided that I will stop eating meat from then on. I'm not a vegetarian yet, just a pecestarian (I still consume fish and seafood). I'm just taking baby steps.:blush: One day, I do hope to become a vegetarian (not a vegan, that I will never be able to do). Although I do feel healthier and breathe better:thumbsup:, I'm sure I'm not as healthy as I should be. School and work keep me busy so I just eat what I can when I can.:huh: 

If you're a vegan, vegetarian, or pecestarian, how do you stay healthy? What do you consume on a day-to-day basis? 

As always, thanks for your help and feedbacks! 

xoxo JULIE


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

We've had several conversations on this recently. You should be able to find them if you do a search on "Vegetarian" in the "Anything Goes" Section.

Here's one:

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/49-...you-vegan-raw-foodist-eat-balanced-meals.html


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## uniquelovdolce (Mar 10, 2010)

just a question , whats the diff between a vegan and a vegetarian ?


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## Miss_Annie (Mar 3, 2010)

Vegans don't do milk products or eggs.. Vegetarians do. Thank goodness my boyfriends just a vegetarian, I LOVE cheese and milk!!


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## Julie03 (Mar 18, 2010)

Nikki's Mom said:


> We've had several conversations on this recently. You should be able to find them if you do a search on "Vegetarian" in the "Anything Goes" Section.
> 
> Here's one:
> 
> http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/49-...you-vegan-raw-foodist-eat-balanced-meals.html


Didn't know that. Thanks Suzan!  I'll do a search. And thanks for the link. 



uniquelovdolce said:


> just a question , whats the diff between a vegan and a vegetarian ?


A vegan doesn't consume meat products or anything that comes from animals (i.e. milk, eggs, etc.). A vegetarian doesn't consume meat products but still consume animal-produced products (again, such as milk and eggs). Hope that helps!


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## Julie03 (Mar 18, 2010)

Miss_Annie said:


> Vegans don't do milk products or eggs.. Vegetarians do. Thank goodness my boyfriends just a vegetarian, I LOVE cheese and milk!!


Ooopsss...you beat me to it! LOL.


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## Miss_Annie (Mar 3, 2010)

lol We were both all over it! 

Oh my.. has anyone tried the new grillers chik'n from Morningstar? They're DELICIOUS!! *drools*


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## sheila's malt (Apr 17, 2010)

No not me i love my meat.


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## beckinwolf (Sep 2, 2008)

sheila's malt said:


> No not me i love my meat.


Me too! Besides, you need animal proteins to really be healthy. And you should look into locally raised, grass-fed cattle if you are worried about factory farming practices. Grass-fed cattle are not raised the same as industrial cattle are. Here's a good website to find sources of grass-fed meat etc,

www.eatwild.com


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

beckinwolf said:


> Me too! Besides, you need animal proteins to really be healthy. And you should look into locally raised, grass-fed cattle if you are worried about factory farming practices. Grass-fed cattle are not raised the same as industrial cattle are. Here's a good website to find sources of grass-fed meat etc,
> 
> www.eatwild.com



What she said. :thumbsup: 

The previous SM discussion I linked above has a lot of info.


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## Miss_Annie (Mar 3, 2010)

I need to show this link to my boyfriend... I came from a small country town and love to cook, but it's so hard for me to _really cook_ vegetarian meals.. 

I'm just glad that morningstar came up with something that tastes pretty good for fake chicken.. Makes recipes easier!


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## mfa (Oct 5, 2009)

same thing happened to me!!!

i saw a documentary on chicken and pigs in factory farming and immediately stopped eating that! it was so horrible, worse than watching a horror movie!!!:smcry::smcry:

now i only eat fish and beef and feel much better.:chili:


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## Julie03 (Mar 18, 2010)

beckinwolf said:


> Me too! Besides, you need animal proteins to really be healthy. And you should look into locally raised, grass-fed cattle if you are worried about factory farming practices. Grass-fed cattle are not raised the same as industrial cattle are. Here's a good website to find sources of grass-fed meat etc,
> 
> www.eatwild.com


Thanks for the link!  I've thought about going back to eating meat because I do worry about the animal proteins that I am not getting. Plus, since I've cut out meat, I've been consuming more fish than I normally would (and the mercury risks in fish really scare me). 



Nikki's Mom said:


> What she said. :thumbsup:
> 
> The previous SM discussion I linked above has a lot of info.


Yes, it was very helpful. I also did a search and read up on some older threads. Very informative. Thanks again. 



Miss_Annie said:


> I need to show this link to my boyfriend... I came from a small country town and love to cook, but it's so hard for me to _really cook_ vegetarian meals..
> 
> I'm just glad that morningstar came up with something that tastes pretty good for fake chicken.. Makes recipes easier!


I don't really know how to cook.:brownbag: My mom does all the cooking in the house. One of my goals in life is to learn how to cook. My BF, on the other hand, is a great cook. His mom is a chef. He does all the cooking for us. But, since I've stopped eating meat, he's been struggling with what to cook for me. Sometimes he gets really frustrated. :huh:

I haven't tried many items from Morning Star. I've only had the sausage links, the brats, and the buffalo wild wings. I love the buffalo wild wings. They taste just like meat! LOL.


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## Julie03 (Mar 18, 2010)

mfa said:


> same thing happened to me!!!
> 
> i saw a documentary on chicken and pigs in factory farming and immediately stopped eating that! it was so horrible, worse than watching a horror movie!!!:smcry::smcry:
> 
> now i only eat fish and beef and feel much better.:chili:



I couldn't agree more! It is worse than watching a horror film. The video I saw focused on pigs and chickens, which made me feel even worst since pork and chicken were my favorites. :w00t:


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## Miss_Annie (Mar 3, 2010)

iloveGESUS said:


> I don't really know how to cook.:brownbag: My mom does all the cooking in the house. One of my goals in life is to learn how to cook. My BF, on the other hand, is a great cook. His mom is a chef. He does all the cooking for us. But, since I've stopped eating meat, he's been struggling with what to cook for me. Sometimes he gets really frustrated. :huh:
> 
> I haven't tried many items from Morning Star. I've only had the sausage links, the brats, and the buffalo wild wings. I love the buffalo wild wings. They taste just like meat! LOL.


Your boyfriend and I have the frustration part in common. I hate just saute'ing veggies without any meat to help with the flavor.. or baking veggies.. boiling veggies... :angry: there's only so much one can do without a good protein base!! 

Their sausage patties are better than the links. I actually prefer them over real sausage patties. :blush: I'll have to get the wings. Those are one of the few Morningstar products I haven't tried yet! I'm glad they're going to be good.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

Yes, there is a lot of cruelty out there regarding food sources, I agree. I used to be a hardcore vegan, vegetarian, etc. Then I got really sick. I did some research. And now I eat animal proteins which are humanely raised and that eat the foods they were meant to eat.

There are very good farmers/ranchers who are extremely kind to their animals from birth to death. The manner in which they raise and slaughter the animals is totally humane. It's a much better situation, and because the animals were able to eat what they were intended to eat, the meat is much healthier for humans. 

You just have to make an effort to find these people, forge a relationship with them, spend a little extra (cut down on junk food) buy their meat, poultry, eggs, and milk, and stop supporting cruel and deceptive Big Agri.

There is a huge difference between buying food from a small sustainable farm/ranch - many of them can be found within an hour of most people's homes, - and huge CAFO's

The problem is that we just go to the store and don't think about it. Then someone convinces us that the solution is to be a vegetarian. Before anyone decides to give up meat, they should read, "The Vegetarian Myth."


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

i am reading "The Vegetarian Myth" right now and it is a really great book with a lot of fantastic information. the author was a vegan for 20 years - she also got sick - but her points about vegan/vegetarians is more about myths regarding morality and the environment, as well as nutrition. anyway, i also recommend it and thank you suzan for originally recommending it to me!


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## silverhaven (Sep 6, 2009)

My daughter was pretty close to vegan for 3 years. She really wasn't completely healthy on it, for her it was much too restrictive, particularly because she also seems to have a lot of allergies and intolerences, she can't seem to eat any wheat without her hands and face going bright red. Other things do it too. She hasn't as yet been properly diagnosed. I was happy that she decided a few months ago to start eating meat again. She seems the better for it.


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## mfa (Oct 5, 2009)

iloveGESUS said:


> I couldn't agree more! It is worse than watching a horror film. The video I saw focused on pigs and chickens, which made me feel even worst since pork and chicken were my favorites. :w00t:



Julie, i saw the one on chickens first and could barely get through watching it, OMG. i have canaries and are very sensitive about birds. so i thought that one was horrible...but then i saw the one on pigs, WOW, way worse. the cries of those cute pigs just stays in my mind. i've never seen or imagined such torture.:smcry::smcry:

also pigs are very intelligent animals and some people keep them as pets, i think they are so cute.:wub:

at least cows are able to be out in pastures enjoying sunshine and eating grass. 

for my all vegetarian meals, i ended up using more spices and that helped improve flavor.:thmbup:


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## Julie03 (Mar 18, 2010)

Miss_Annie said:


> Your boyfriend and I have the frustration part in common. I hate just saute'ing veggies without any meat to help with the flavor.. or baking veggies.. boiling veggies... :angry: there's only so much one can do without a good protein base!!
> 
> Their sausage patties are better than the links. I actually prefer them over real sausage patties. :blush: I'll have to get the wings. Those are one of the few Morningstar products I haven't tried yet! I'm glad they're going to be good.


Mmmm...all this food talk is making me hungry. Maybe I need to go to Wal-Mart in a bit. LOL. I will try the sausage patties next. I'm not a big fan of the links or brats. I prefer the wings over them. 



Nikki's Mom said:


> Yes, there is a lot of cruelty out there regarding food sources, I agree. I used to be a hardcore vegan, vegetarian, etc. Then I got really sick. I did some research. And now I eat animal proteins which are humanely raised and that eat the foods they were meant to eat.
> 
> There are very good farmers/ranchers who are extremely kind to their animals from birth to death. The manner in which they raise and slaughter the animals is totally humane. It's a much better situation, and because the animals were able to eat what they were intended to eat, the meat is much healthier for humans.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all this great info, Suzan. I didn't know about that book. I love leisure reading and will make that my next read. I did see the thread that it was mentioned in when I did a search. Kind of makes me not wanna be a pecestarian anymore. :huh:



tamizami said:


> i am reading "The Vegetarian Myth" right now and it is a really great book with a lot of fantastic information. the author was a vegan for 20 years - she also got sick - but her points about vegan/vegetarians is more about myths regarding morality and the environment, as well as nutrition. anyway, i also recommend it and thank you suzan for originally recommending it to me!


Thanks for the recommendation. I will definitely read it. 



silverhaven said:


> My daughter was pretty close to vegan for 3 years. She really wasn't completely healthy on it, for her it was much too restrictive, particularly because she also seems to have a lot of allergies and intolerences, she can't seem to eat any wheat without her hands and face going bright red. Other things do it too. She hasn't as yet been properly diagnosed. I was happy that she decided a few months ago to start eating meat again. She seems the better for it.


I'm not healthy being a pecestarian either. :huh: My whole family eats meat so I just eat what I can when I can. Although I feel healthier, I'm sure my body isn't getting all its necessary proteins, calcium, etc. My sisters keep advising me to go back to eating meat but just do in smaller portions and get them from a better and more humane source if I feel that strongly about animal cruelty. But, I don't know...I always feel a sense of guilt when I think about eating meat again. 

Anyway, I'm glad your daughter decided to do what's better for her health. 



mfa said:


> Julie, i saw the one on chickens first and could barely get through watching it, OMG. i have canaries and are very sensitive about birds. so i thought that one was horrible...but then i saw the one on pigs, WOW, way worse. the cries of those cute pigs just stays in my mind. i've never seen or imagined such torture.:smcry::smcry:
> 
> also pigs are very intelligent animals and some people keep them as pets, i think they are so cute.:wub:
> 
> ...


I love birds too, especially humming birds. Ahh, I remember those pig cries all too well. It's just so depressing. 

Some people do keep pigs as pets. The guy who posted up that video I saw actually has a pet pig.

Btw, I've been wanting to tell you this but keep forgetting. I love your siggy of Pearlan. She's so precious.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

I love animals and I have always been very sensitive to animal cruelty. That is why as much as I possibly can, I choose to eat animals that are humanely treated during their entire life, from birth to death. It costs more money, and it can sometimes be more inconvenient to source, but for me, it is worth it.


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## almitra (Apr 24, 2009)

From a health and wellbeing standpoint, it is indeed a difficult job to mix the correct ratios of incomplete proteins to have the body recognize them as "complete". From a *protein* standpoint, your body does not know the difference between a T-bone steak and a bowl of rice and beans, though your liver, kidneys, and arteries certainly will. If one is going to go the vegan route as opposed to a lacto-ovo-vegetarian (or Pescetarian , as the OP), this is crucial information. Personally, I am none of these. But what I am is a Professor of Health and Kinesiology, and this is very familiar turf. Inasmuch as fish _is_ a complete protein, no deficiencies in the protein arena pose a danger. But you are indeed correct in being wary of the sometimes inordinately high percentage of heavy metals (ie mercury) in fish....and iodine in shrimp. As a point of fact, many doctors warn their pregnant patients away from consumption of these particular foodstuffs throughout the duration of their pregnancies due to the risk it poses to the developing fetus. But back to the original subject, strict vegans stand to suffer from malnutrition (yes, even in a developed nation like ours), are slow to heal from musculo-skeletal injuries (fractures, sprains, strains, etc), and have a lower overall bodyweight. The last side effect might not seem so bad at face value, but when you consider that the lower bodyweight is due in large part to the body digesting its own muscle and organ mass to obtain the protein it needs but is not getting in adequate amounts from the diet, it isn't so good. Each person's body requires a certain number of grams of protein daily, and if it doesn't come from the diet, the body will take what it needs from its own stores, muscles and viscera.
If anyone chooses a completely vegan lifestyle, it is never to be entered into on a whim, but arrived at through careful thought and consideration, and with the able assistance of a nutritionist to at least get them well versed in the basics. Many people live a long, vibrant, healthy life as vegetarians, but those are the ones who do more than merely eliminate certain staples from their diets. They are the ones who make it their mission to learn the hows, whys and what fors of the lifestyle beforehand, and monitor their intakes of fats, proteins, and carbohydrates to ensure they are getting what they need for each stage of their lives. 
If your conscience dictates you alter your lifestyle, then be smart and do your homework. Find out what your current needs are & get your minimum RDA's from quality sources to fill it.


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## tamizami (May 1, 2007)

wow, thats excellent advice sandra, i think people often believe that they can just stop eating meat/eggs/dairy and they will be healthier. 

for anyone else who is still interested in eating meat that has been humanely raised, this is another good site for sourcing:  http://www.animalwelfareapproved.org/.

personally, i am more afraid of genetically modified crops and what these giant monocrops are doing to our topsoil and the environment. plus - since eliminating grains from my diet - i am no longer suffering from the delibitating allergies i had as a child. even 2 weeks back east during the height of a record ragweed season and i had no allergy attacks, my family was amazed and it helps to reinforce my diet. i love bread and pasta, but realize that i am very addicted to them and can't eat just a little, so eliminating it all has worked well for me. i focus on what i can eat (like coocnut, nuts, meat, bacon) instead of what i cannot eat.


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

tamizami said:


> wow, thats excellent advice sandra, i think people often believe that they can just stop eating meat/eggs/dairy and they will be healthier.
> 
> for anyone else who is still interested in eating meat that has been humanely raised, this is another good site for sourcing:  http://www.animalwelfareapproved.org/.
> 
> personally, i am more afraid of genetically modified crops and what these giant monocrops are doing to our topsoil and the environment. plus - since eliminating grains from my diet - i am no longer suffering from the delibitating allergies i had as a child. even 2 weeks back east during the height of a record ragweed season and i had no allergy attacks, my family was amazed and it helps to reinforce my diet. i love bread and pasta, but realize that i am very addicted to them and can't eat just a little, so eliminating it all has worked well for me. i focus on what i can eat (like coocnut, nuts, meat, bacon) instead of what i cannot eat.


Great info. 

I'm concerned about genetically modified foods as well. 

Since giving up grains/beans/sugar, my energy levels have improved and my depression is virtually gone. My husband's severe eczema is going away, and his seasonal allergies are almost gone, too. Most people don't know how bad they really feel while on a high-grain diet until after they eliminate grains for a few weeks. Then they are amazed at how much better they feel. We eat a LOT of organic veggies and fruit, especially during the summer. We also eat nuts and seeds, and an occasional treat of organic ice cream. We sometimes eat potatoes and sweet potatoes. We eat humanely raised beef/bison/chicken/eggs, and only wild-caught fish. There are so many things that we can choose from, we hardly ever miss the bread/pasta/beans.


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## poochie2 (Jan 14, 2010)

almitra said:


> From a health and wellbeing standpoint, it is indeed a difficult job to mix the correct ratios of incomplete proteins to have the body recognize them as "complete". From a *protein* standpoint, your body does not know the difference between a T-bone steak and a bowl of rice and beans, though your liver, kidneys, and arteries certainly will. If one is going to go the vegan route as opposed to a lacto-ovo-vegetarian (or Pescetarian , as the OP), this is crucial information. Personally, I am none of these. But what I am is a Professor of Health and Kinesiology, and this is very familiar turf. Inasmuch as fish _is_ a complete protein, no deficiencies in the protein arena pose a danger. But you are indeed correct in being wary of the sometimes inordinately high percentage of heavy metals (ie mercury) in fish....and iodine in shrimp. As a point of fact, many doctors warn their pregnant patients away from consumption of these particular foodstuffs throughout the duration of their pregnancies due to the risk it poses to the developing fetus. But back to the original subject, strict vegans stand to suffer from malnutrition (yes, even in a developed nation like ours), are slow to heal from musculo-skeletal injuries (fractures, sprains, strains, etc), and have a lower overall bodyweight. The last side effect might not seem so bad at face value, but when you consider that the lower bodyweight is due in large part to the body digesting its own muscle and organ mass to obtain the protein it needs but is not getting in adequate amounts from the diet, it isn't so good. Each person's body requires a certain number of grams of protein daily, and if it doesn't come from the diet, the body will take what it needs from its own stores, muscles and viscera.
> If anyone chooses a completely vegan lifestyle, it is never to be entered into on a whim, but arrived at through careful thought and consideration, and with the able assistance of a nutritionist to at least get them well versed in the basics. Many people live a long, vibrant, healthy life as vegetarians, but those are the ones who do more than merely eliminate certain staples from their diets. They are the ones who make it their mission to learn the hows, whys and what fors of the lifestyle beforehand, and monitor their intakes of fats, proteins, and carbohydrates to ensure they are getting what they need for each stage of their lives.
> If your conscience dictates you alter your lifestyle, then be smart and do your homework. Find out what your current needs are & get your minimum RDA's from quality sources to fill it.


:goodpost:


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## Canada (Jun 4, 2009)

Very interesting thread with great info here.
I have lived all of the above dietary lifestyles at different times in my life.
The one constant that has never changed is that I do not eat beef or pork.
I must admit that I was the thinnest as vegan.
I used to order a pizza with just the dough, tomatoe sauce and pineapple. 
Of course I would eat tofu, beans and other things.


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

I've been enjoying this thread too... I've gone vegetarian (well, pectarian) a few times during my life and it just didn't last. I think mainly because I never learned how to cook several different things and fell back to the same dishes over and over which my body didn't respond well to afterawhile.

Right now there's a doctor (Neal Barnard) talking about lowering your blood pressure by adopting a vegan diet. I'm guessing that's because of the cheese factor (so why not vegetarian but fish is good and so are egg whites?). I've had several stressful factors in my life the last 5 years or so plus hereditarily disposed to high blood pressure. So I'm thinking of giving this vegetarian thing another try because I really hate taking those b.p. pills. I LOVE veggies, but am going to have to really learn how to cook a bigger variety of stuff so that I'm getting good nutrition...this is gonna be the hard part for me.

Just a side note, vegans also don't Wear products made by animals. Or eat honey. 



Miss_Annie said:


> Your boyfriend and I have the frustration part in common. I hate just saute'ing veggies without any meat to help with the flavor.. or baking veggies.. boiling veggies... :angry: there's only so much one can do without a good protein base!!


I love using thyme in veggies...adds an interesting element...especially corn 



Nikki's Mom said:


> Yes, there is a lot of cruelty out there regarding food sources, I agree. I used to be a hardcore vegan, vegetarian, etc. Then I got really sick. I did some research. And now I eat animal proteins which are humanely raised and that eat the foods they were meant to eat.
> 
> There are very good farmers/ranchers who are extremely kind to their animals from birth to death. The manner in which they raise and slaughter the animals is totally humane. It's a much better situation, and because the animals were able to eat what they were intended to eat, the meat is much healthier for humans.
> 
> ...


Whole Foods sources from these kind of places (a lot more expensive, but worth it). Will see if they have that book at my library today...thanks for the point.



Canada said:


> Very interesting thread with great info here.
> I have lived all of the above dietary lifestyles at different times in my life.
> The one constant that has never changed is that I do eat beef or pork.
> I must admit that I was the thinnest as vegan.
> ...


I wonder if my changing to this diet now will make a difference since I am actively trying not to eat sugar and my grains are all 100% whole grains now. And I like tofu (a lot). Beans are good too, but I need to figure out a way to eat them without the consequences (beano doesn't seem to help) :blink: If beans are supposed to be so good for you, why do our bodies have such a hard time digesting them??? :huh:


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

maltlovereileen said:


> I've been enjoying this thread too... I've gone vegetarian (well, pectarian) a few times during my life and it just didn't last. I think mainly because I never learned how to cook several different things and fell back to the same dishes over and over which my body didn't respond well to afterawhile.
> 
> Right now there's a doctor (Neal Barnard) talking about lowering your blood pressure by adopting a vegan diet. I'm guessing that's because of the cheese factor (so why not vegetarian but fish is good and so are egg whites?). I've had several stressful factors in my life the last 5 years or so plus hereditarily disposed to high blood pressure. So I'm thinking of giving this vegetarian thing another try because I really hate taking those b.p. pills. I LOVE veggies, but am going to have to really learn how to cook a bigger variety of stuff so that I'm getting good nutrition...this is gonna be the hard part for me.
> 
> ...


Regarding beans: THE LECTIN STORY


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## Nikki's Mom (Feb 13, 2008)

High Blood Pressure:

High Blood Pressure and Follow-up Care | Mark's Daily Apple


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## Canada (Jun 4, 2009)

Oh dear I edited my post as I had erroneously put:
"I do eat beef or pork."
It should have read I do NOT eat beef or pork!

I had tried sometimes to force myself to eat chicken or fish.
And it even makes me feel weird to read that sentence.
But I secretly struggle with it and often go for very long periods without eating it.

I never drink milk or have eggs also.


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## uniquelovdolce (Mar 10, 2010)

thank u girls for explaining the difference .. i love meat too much , but i try not to think of what the poor things go thru .


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## maltlovereileen (Jan 19, 2009)

Nikki's Mom said:


> Regarding beans: THE LECTIN STORY





Nikki's Mom said:


> High Blood Pressure:
> 
> High Blood Pressure and Follow-up Care | Mark's Daily Apple


THANK YOU for the great points, Suzan.  :thumbsup: Because of an article you posted awhile back I finally was able to give up *what I thought was better for me* Agave Nectar. I'm now just putting a bit of honey in my coffee - took awhile to get used to that taste...


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## mfa (Oct 5, 2009)

iloveGESUS said:


> Mmmm...all this food talk is making me hungry. Maybe I need to go to Wal-Mart in a bit. LOL. I will try the sausage patties next. I'm not a big fan of the links or brats. I prefer the wings over them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yes, hummingbirds are so wonderful!!:tender:

i know what you mean about feeling guilty having meat!! i know that i'll never have chicken or pork again. for me with beef, i just cant forget that it's a beautiful cow, and try to not have it much.....


thanks for your comment on Pearlan's siggy!! she is the sweetest baby:heart:


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