# Diamond Puppy



## Bellalady

Unfortunate and unpleasant experience with Diamond Maltese. Feel free to PM with any questions.


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## Miss_Annie

I am so sorry about your treatment..  hopefully you'll find a breeder that suits you better and wont be offended about questions.


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## princessre

Oh no, I'm so sorry. :grouphug: I hope you find your perfect baby soon!!

What about Laureal Maltese? I think she has a female puppy right now. Also you can try Bonnie's Angels.


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## bonsmom

I am incredulous. That is heartbreaking.
Please keep looking, there is a fluff out there for you and your family, just waiting for you to find him/her.

Edited to add... of course you should be asking questions, and lots of them. Why in the world wouldn't a breeder be happy to talk about their pups?


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## Silkmalteselover

*Breeder*

Bellalady... I have a good friend who is AMA member that may still have a very nice female available..and I know of another nice female that is located in the south. Since I am not sure if I am allowed to post publicly on SM the info? about their websites you will have to PM me if you are interested.


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## bailey02

Wow asking to many questions they should be glad that you were asking questions!!!!!


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## Nikki's Mom

Phlick's has a female puppy.


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## Purple-peep

I'm so sorry for your negative experience!:w00t:

Look at it this way...she wasn't meant for you. Hang in there and you find the perfect match for your family.


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## bonsmom

Jeanne may be too modest to mention it, but if you would consider a boy, last time I heard, she had two beauties.


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## Snowbody

I've never heard anyone post anything negative about Diamond. Don't know what the issue was since it isn't posted here. It seemed like in you OP your only issue was about shipping, so where are you located so that people might help you to find another Maltese?


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## CrystalAndZoe

If this is a real person and not just someone trying to use SM to stir up trouble, I am truly sorry and hope you find the right breeder and perfect little fluff for you. But I have to say I find it highly suspicious that you are brabd new to this forum and have posted this. I have heard nothing but great things about Diamond Maltese and have to wonder what their side of the story is. Please forgive me if this is a real person with a legitimate issue. I'm sure you can understand why we have to question when a well respected and well known breeder has a complaint against them like this, that truly does not make any sense. I saw what you had written before you edited it so it really does not make any sense at all.


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## Bellalady

I am a very real person. I had a signed contract and was expecting my dog on Saturday. They felt that I asked too many questions about her size, temperament and shipping. I joined the website as I had based my search on much of the information that I read on this site as a nonmember. I am not looking to cause any trouble. Had I had a positive experience, I suppose my many recent posts wouldn't be questioned. I wish it had been so. I selected them because people on the site said good things. I am glad others have had positive experiences but sadly, I did not.


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## chachingcherry

*Wow*



Bellalady said:


> Unfortunate and unpleasant experience with Diamond Maltese. Feel free to PM with any questions.


I have heard many great things about Diamond Maltese, I have even spoken to him before and have asked about his dogs, grooming, showing, handlers etc... Never have I experienced any rush or negative feedback, he always seemed interested in talking about his Maltese.
Not sure what actually happened, but that sure don't sound like the same person I have always spoke to in regards to Maltese. Are you sure its the Diamond Maltese locatted in Florida that has the beautiful Maltese with numberous Champions? I never bought a dog from him or know him personally, but seems like a very wonderful person that cares about the breed and strives to breed quality.
I also hope this is not a person trying to bash a person with wonderful dogs and not just trying to stear people away from quality Maltese, (not saying you are) but some people do bash others when they don't have quality just quantity.
If you like the look of the Diamond Maltese you should try Marcris Maltese, I beleive alot of his lines are from Marcris Maltese. This is a lady that is known as the GOD MOTHER of Maltese, and is a very ethical.


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## Bellalady

I actually spoke with Joyce today. I actually thought this forum was open to ALL experiences. I appreciate that others have had positive experiences. Truly. I was under the impression that people would honestly communicate experiences, good and bad, in these forums and that both would be appreciated. I hope if someone chooses to buy from them that they have a very different experience than I did. I love Maltese and have been a proud owner for years. I wish anyone luck who chooses to go with them.


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## CrystalAndZoe

Bellalady said:


> I actually spoke with Joyce today. I actually thought this forum was open to ALL experiences. I appreciate that others have had positive experiences. Truly. I was under the impression that people would honestly communicate experiences, good and bad, in these forums and that both would be appreciated. I hope if someone chooses to buy from them that they have a very different experience than I did. I love Maltese and have been a proud owner for years. I wish anyone luck who chooses to go with them.


Oh it is open to all experiences. I wish more people would share their first hand experience even when it's not the best. But since you are new with no history here on SM, you surely can understand the reason for wondering. As well as why a brand new person's very first post would be such as chachingcherry. We've had our share of people wanting to use the forum for their own purposes.


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## Hunter's Mom

I'm sorry for your experience but I do hope that you will visit our breeder's page and our rescue section if you are truly interested in bringing home another maltese - there are so many others out there that need homes and yours sounds lovely with two friends already there waiting!


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## silverhaven

I am sorry it hasn't worked out for you. I hope you find your baby soon.


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## iheartbisou

Oh I'm so sorry to hear this. I know you were looking forward to your new puppy. Maybe try to check out the other breeders suggestion that people have mentioned. There are tons and tons of other good breeders out there...so don't worry-you'll find the right girl for you.

Just wondering, why did you edit your post? Did you feel pressured to, by someone? I hope not. I think if you have first hand experience, then you should freely post it, good or bad- regardless if others agree or not. Not everyone has the same experiences....and nobody should judge others who didn't have the same experience as themselves (good or bad). jmo.

PS- Crystal- she's real!! lol. I have no idea about the other poster though.


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## princessre

iheartbisou said:


> Just wondering, why did you edit your post? Did you feel pressured to, by someone? I hope not. I think if you have first hand experience, then you should freely post it, good or bad- regardless if others agree or not. Not everyone has the same experiences....and nobody should judge others who didn't have the same experience as themselves (good or bad). jmo.
> 
> PS- Crystal- she's real!! lol. I have no idea about the other poster though.


:goodpost:


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## bellaratamaltese

so sorry to hear it didn't work out for you!


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## CloudClan

Where are you located? If you prefer just give a region. It would be wonderful if you could find an ethical breeder nearby that you could work with. 

I always encourage people to see if they can not meet with a breeder and see their dogs firsthand if possible. Dog shows are a great way to do this. Perhaps we can help you find some near you.


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## CrystalAndZoe

iheartbisou said:


> Oh I'm so sorry to hear this. I know you were looking forward to your new puppy. Maybe try to check out the other breeders suggestion that people have mentioned. There are tons and tons of other good breeders out there...so don't worry-you'll find the right girl for you.
> 
> Just wondering, why did you edit your post? Did you feel pressured to, by someone? I hope not. I think if you have first hand experience, then you should freely post it, good or bad- regardless if others agree or not. Not everyone has the same experiences....and nobody should judge others who didn't have the same experience as themselves (good or bad). jmo.
> 
> PS- Crystal- she's real!! lol. I have no idea about the other poster though.


Well if you know her, then please...post the whole story. I feel on SM we are so great about posting the good things. And we do have to be careful about posting negative things, but not to the point that true experiences that need to be exposed don't get shared.

Please, re-post what you had posted earlier and then edited out. I apologize if I hurt your feelings. I honestly didn't know if you were a real person with a legitimate story or not. We've had our share of people trying to use SM for less than honorable intentions.


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## Remmy's Mom

Don't know if I'm "allowed" to say this or not. But it is 1st hand experience. I have to say that I had somewhat of the same situation as the OP with the mentioned breeder last fall. Taking advise given here on SM regarding asking potential breeders lots of questions about their puppies. My original phone call went really well, but when I emailed him the next day with additional questions I had regarding the retired female (which was only about 3 questions) I was told I was asking too many questions and that maybe I should seek another breeder. I was totally shocked when the email arrived in my inbox. As a matter of fact, I was speaking to a SM member (who has some Diamond Maltese babies) on the phone at the time I received the email. She couldn't believe I received that kind of response from him. I was told by several people that his response was probably because of frustration and/or lack of communication due to his heritage. So I don't doubt that this happened to the OP. According to the advise given here on SM, I didn't do business with a breeder I wasn't allowed to have an open relationship with and felt like I was wrong for asking very general questions.


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## missiek

Wow I can't believe a breeder would want you *not* to ask questions! I simply don't understand that one! I would think they would welcome a person interested in getting "correct" information about malts and their pup!


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## uniquelovdolce

im sorry u had a negative experience but hey it shouldnt deter u from getting ur puppy , and i also would like to hear your experience..


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## bailey02

Remmy's Mom said:


> Don't know if I'm "allowed" to say this or not. But it is 1st hand experience. I have to say that I had somewhat of the same situation as the OP with the mentioned breeder last fall. Taking advise given here on SM regarding asking potential breeders lots of questions about their puppies. My original phone call went really well, but when I emailed him the next day with additional questions I had regarding the retired female (which was only about 3 questions) I was told I was asking too many questions and that maybe I should seek another breeder. I was totally shocked when the email arrived in my inbox. As a matter of fact, I was speaking to a SM member (who has some Diamond Maltese babies) on the phone at the time I received the email. She couldn't believe I received that kind of response from him. I was told by several people that his response was probably because of frustration and/or lack of communication due to his heritage. So I don't doubt that this happened to the OP. According to the advise given here on SM, I didn't do business with a breeder I wasn't allowed to have an open relationship with and felt like I was wrong for asking very general questions.


Well I guess with Remmys mom experiencing the same situation I guess this other person is REAL and did experience this. I hope you do find a little baby to call your own with a breeder that allows you to ask as many questions as you want!!!!:thumbsup:


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## CrystalAndZoe

Remmy's Mom said:


> Don't know if I'm "allowed" to say this or not. But it is 1st hand experience. I have to say that I had somewhat of the same situation as the OP with the mentioned breeder last fall. Taking advise given here on SM regarding asking potential breeders lots of questions about their puppies. My original phone call went really well, but when I emailed him the next day with additional questions I had regarding the retired female (which was only about 3 questions) I was told I was asking too many questions and that maybe I should seek another breeder. I was totally shocked when the email arrived in my inbox. As a matter of fact, I was speaking to a SM member (who has some Diamond Maltese babies) on the phone at the time I received the email. She couldn't believe I received that kind of response from him. I was told by several people that his response was probably because of frustration and/or lack of communication due to his heritage. So I don't doubt that this happened to the OP. According to the advise given here on SM, I didn't do business with a breeder I wasn't allowed to have an open relationship with and felt like I was wrong for asking very general questions.


Thank you for speaking up. As far as I'm aware, the rules are still the same as being able to tell first hand experience...good OR bad. And we need more people willing to share BOTH sides and more people supporting instead of blasting those who are brave enough to share the bad.

Good for you for not going with a breeder who made you feel that way.:thumbsup:


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## mi_ku_5

I understand the suspicion, but how are we supposed to get both sides of a story if we jump on people for sharing negative experiences? Perhaps that's why we've only heard good things about certain breeders. I take everything online (good and bad) w/ a grain of salt. I thank the OP and Remmy"s mom for sharing their exeriences. I also wish the OP lots of luck in finding her puppy.


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## CrystalAndZoe

mi_ku_5 said:


> I understand the suspicion, but how are we supposed to get both sides of a story if we jump on people for sharing negative experiences? Perhaps that's why we've only heard good things about certain breeders. I take everything online (good and bad) w/ a grain of salt. I thank the OP and Remmy"s mom for sharing their exeriences. I also wish the OP lots of luck in finding her puppy.


Oh I hope I did not come across as jumping on the OP. I just wanted to be careful. I do feel like in the past, when something was shared about a breeder that was negative, that person was jumped on. I experienced it myself when I had a bad experience with a respected breeder. So I again apologize if I came across that way. 

I'm hoping the OP comes back and shares what she originally had posted. I think it would be beneficial for those looking for a breeder.


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## Julie03

To the OP - Sorry this happened to you. I hope you find your perfect Malt soon.


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## Ladysmom

We've had a couple of puppy sales fall through here on SM in the past, and both times it proved embarrassing for the member when the breeder came on and explained why she refused to sell the puppy to the member.

Since the OP didn't actually get the puppy and therefore can't comment on her health, etc., perhaps this should just be kept as a private business matter between the two parties? The OP did say that anyone who wanted more details could pm her.

I know myself that over the almost six years I have been selling bows, I have run into a couple of people I refuse to sell to anymore. There are always very good reasons, but would certainly prefer not to be put in a position where I had to make them public and embarrass someone.


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## Bellalady

I want to be clear in that I have no knowledge of this puppy's health. I never implied or stated anything was wrong with the dog at all. I believe it is a healthy beautiful dog. I was told that I asked too many questions about her size, maturity, personality and health. We spoke a few times over 36 hours. I also asked about the health guarantee. I was not at all trying to embarass the breeder. I was simply relaying my experience because it was terribly unprofessional and saddening. As it seems, I am not alone. The bottom line is that I had a signed contract for this dog and was later told no. That being said, he has beautiful puppies and people should absolutely buy from him if they are comfortable doing so. 

I do want to add that I am a responsible and loving maltese owner. I was trying to be responsible in asking those questions. I am hurt they chose not to sell to me because I asked questions. I would have provided a loving home to that little girl and will do so for one when we find him/her. What is meant to be, will be.


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## princessre

Bellalady said:


> I want to be clear in that I have no knowledge of this puppy's health. I never implied or stated anything was wrong with the dog at all. I believe it is a healthy beautiful dog. I was told that I asked too many questions about her size, maturity, personality and health. We spoke a few times over 36 hours. I also asked about the health guarantee. I was not at all trying to embarass the breeder. I was simply relaying my experience because it was terribly unprofessional and saddening. As it seems, I am not alone. The bottom line is that I had a signed contract for this dog and was later told no. That being said, he has beautiful puppies and people should absolutely buy from him if they are comfortable doing so.
> 
> I do want to add that I am a responsible and loving maltese owner. I was trying to be responsible in asking those questions. I am hurt they chose not to sell to me because I asked questions. I would have provided a loving home to that little girl and will do so for one when we find him/her. What is meant to be, will be.


Good for you! I understand what you are saying. You will find the one that you are meant to be with!! HUGS.


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## maltlovereileen

Wow... two people at least had this experience? Wonder why they are uncomfortable with people asking questions - you'd think the more questions a person asked, the better they'd feel about that person being an excellent home (ie, prepared and researching). Thanks for sharing.


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## CloudClan

Bellalady said:


> I want to be clear in that I have no knowledge of this puppy's health. I never implied or stated anything was wrong with the dog at all. I believe it is a healthy beautiful dog. I was told that I asked too many questions about her size, maturity, personality and health. We spoke a few times over 36 hours. I also asked about the health guarantee. I was not at all trying to embarass the breeder. I was simply relaying my experience because it was terribly unprofessional and saddening. As it seems, I am not alone. The bottom line is that I had a signed contract for this dog and was later told no. That being said, he has beautiful puppies and people should absolutely buy from him if they are comfortable doing so.
> 
> I do want to add that I am a responsible and loving maltese owner. I was trying to be responsible in asking those questions. I am hurt they chose not to sell to me because I asked questions. I would have provided a loving home to that little girl and will do so for one when we find him/her. What is meant to be, will be.


I think asking questions is an important part of finding the right fit for your family. If asking too many questions is the reason that this did not work out then I think you were saved from a situation that would not have been ideal for you or your new puppy. 

It sounds like you are being very careful and I hope that you will not be discouraged by this. It will pay off.


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## Nikki's Mom

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I have no experience with that particular breeder, so I cannot comment on that. 

Generally speaking, when a person spends $$$ on a companion animal that they will be sharing their home with for many years, then I feel they have a right to ask detailed and numerous questions.


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## MaryH

I don't personally know this breeder and am not defending him. And I'm so sorry that your heart was broken.

I've just got to wonder if you unfortunately are the fallout from a previous situation where someone posted about an available Diamond retiree on SM, some of the info was incorrect (saying that the retiree was 2 yr. old and had had 4 litters), and someone from this forum had the nerve to call Mr. Tran and give him an earful about his breeding practices. Is it possible that you had discussions, signed the contract, sent the money, etc. and then posted on SM afterwards asking questions? If so, Mr. Tran may have seen or been notified by someone that you were here posting questions and he may have decided he did not want to do business with someone related to Spoiled Maltese based on his experience of the recent past. Again, I am so sorry that your heart was broken. I've always said and honestly believe that the right dog always ends up in the right home and one of these days the one that was meant for you will be in your loving arms.


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## mss

I wonder if MaryH has it... 

Before I read Mary's message, I wondered if the breeder thought you were trying to back out. You say you had a signed contract already, so he might have wondered about your asking more questions at that stage. 

Anyway, I wish you luck on finding just the right pup from a breeder you feel comfortable with.


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## Bellalady

I was in no way trying to back out. If you look at my posts, they could not have been "misinterpreted" in that way. It was clear that I was very excited. That is neither here nor there anymore. I understand what you are saying but that is not the case here. You know, at this juncture, I don't want to speculate anymore. I only know what he told me. So, I have learned that I need a breeder that is open to questions and answering them without feeling insulted. Even if I need to ask twice. Or three times. It is a major decision. I believe I will find that when I am ready to look again. I am sure his style is a perfect fit for another buyer and that I will be a good fit with another breeder. 

Best regards.


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## Ladysmom

MaryH said:


> I don't personally know this breeder and am not defending him. And I'm so sorry that your heart was broken.
> 
> I've just got to wonder if you unfortunately are the fallout from a previous situation where someone posted about an available Diamond retiree on SM, some of the info was incorrect (saying that the retiree was 2 yr. old and had had 4 litters), and someone from this forum had the nerve to call Mr. Tran and give him an earful about his breeding practices. Is it possible that you had discussions, signed the contract, sent the money, etc. and then posted on SM afterwards asking questions? If so, Mr. Tran may have seen or been notified by someone that you were here posting questions and he may have decided he did not want to do business with someone related to Spoiled Maltese based on his experience of the recent past. Again, I am so sorry that your heart was broken. I've always said and honestly believe that the right dog always ends up in the right home and one of these days the one that was meant for you will be in your loving arms.


Mary, I bet you are absolutely right! The OP may very likely just have been a casualty of the fallout from that recent thread.

I have known more than one puppy deal to fall through because the buyer discussed it on SM before the deal was sealed and the puppy was home. I know some breeders specifically tell their buyers not to discuss it here until the puppy is officially theirs and home. I completely respect that since it is a private business matter.

Bellalady, where in the southeast are you located? There are some great breeders here. If you could tell us your state, we might be able to suggest some that are within driving distance.


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## Chalex

This is something that I have wanted to write about but I wasn't sure it was allowed. All a I can say is Bellalady, you are one smart lady. I also asked a lot of questions. Mr. Tran put his wife on the phone who said I couldn't have the dog because I ask too many questions. Instead of seeing this as a red flag, I stupidly stopped asking questions and talked them into following through with the contract. In addition, a well respected member of this forum so kindly offered to meet the dog (and another Diamond that I was considering) so that she could tell me about the dog's temperment. He wouldn't allow this and said he had too many dogs and had to send the dog by Sunday (she was going to see the dogs on Monday). Another red flag that I inored.

So I shut up and didn't have the member meet the dog and ended up with a beautiful, healthy completely unsocialized dog. I have spent practically every minute with him trying to get him socialized. A month ago I couldn't deal with him anymore, and I asked Mr. Tran if I could return him. He said he'd call me when he got back from showing dogs, but never did. I've become emotionally attached to him and at this point wouldn't be able to return him, but no one should get a dog from a "good" breeder that in my opinion lived in a crate and peed all over himself in there. (Mr. Tran told me after I bought him that he stayed in a large crate with a wee wee pad and was let out twice a day to play). I have a large crate so I put him in it one night soon after I got Preston thinking that he'd be happy in it since that was what he was used to. He just threw the pad all over the crate and messed himself up horribly. It's disquesting to think that's how he lived for 6 months. 

I have now gotten him to the point where he's good with the family (he finally likes me) and he calms down with some visitors to our house. With most visitors, he goes nuts and won't stop barking and lunging at them. It's horrible. He has bittten people (generally just their clothing) on several occations. Mr. Tran had told me he was wee wee trained and so sweet. After three and a half months, he's come a long way but we're still working on the potty training and other issues.


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## princessre

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I'm so sorry you had a bad experience. 

But I'm happy for you that Preston has come a long way. I think if you keep on keeping on working with Preston, that you will reach a good equilibrium and he will be happily integrated into your family. It's still early days, and it's so good that he has made so much progress. 

We are here for you. Please let us know how we can help.



Chalex said:


> This is something that I have wanted to write about but I wasn't sure it was allowed. All a I can say is Bellalady, you are one smart lady. I also asked a lot of questions. Mr. Tran put his wife on the phone who said I couldn't have the dog because I ask too many questions. Instead of seeing this as a red flag, I stupidly stopped asking questions and talked them into following through with the contract. In addition, a well respected member of this forum so kindly offered to meet the dog (and another Diamond that I was considering) so that she could tell me about the dog's temperment. He wouldn't allow this and said he had too many dogs and had to send the dog by Sunday (she was going to see the dogs on Monday). Another red flag that I inored.
> 
> So I shut up and didn't have the member meet the dog and ended up with a beautiful, healthy completely unsocialized dog. I have spent practically every minute with him trying to get him socialized. A month ago I couldn't deal with him anymore, and I asked Mr. Tran if I could return him. He said he'd call me when he got back from showing dogs, but never did. I've become emotionally attached to him and at this point wouldn't be able to return him, but no one should get a dog from a "good" breeder that in my opinion lived in a crate and peed all over himself in there. (Mr. Tran told me after I bought him that he stayed in a large crate with a wee wee pad and was let out twice a day to play). I have a large crate so I put him in it one night soon after I got Preston thinking that he'd be happy in it since that was what he was used to. He just threw the pad all over the crate and messed himself up horribly. It's disquesting to think that's how he lived for 6 months.
> 
> I have now gotten him to the point where he's good with the family (he finally likes me) and he calms down with some visitors to our house. With most visitors, he goes nuts and won't stop barking and lunging at them. It's horrible. He has bittten people (generally just their clothing) on several occations. Mr. Tran had told me he was wee wee trained and so sweet. After three and a half months, he's come a long way but we're still working on the potty training and other issues.


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## uniquelovdolce

Chalex said:


> This is something that I have wanted to write about but I wasn't sure it was allowed. All a I can say is Bellalady, you are one smart lady. I also asked a lot of questions. Mr. Tran put his wife on the phone who said I couldn't have the dog because I ask too many questions. Instead of seeing this as a red flag, I stupidly stopped asking questions and talked them into following through with the contract. In addition, a well respected member of this forum so kindly offered to meet the dog (and another Diamond that I was considering) so that she could tell me about the dog's temperment. He wouldn't allow this and said he had too many dogs and had to send the dog by Sunday (she was going to see the dogs on Monday). Another red flag that I inored.
> 
> So I shut up and didn't have the member meet the dog and ended up with a beautiful, healthy completely unsocialized dog. I have spent practically every minute with him trying to get him socialized. A month ago I couldn't deal with him anymore, and I asked Mr. Tran if I could return him. He said he'd call me when he got back from showing dogs, but never did. I've become emotionally attached to him and at this point wouldn't be able to return him, but no one should get a dog from a "good" breeder that in my opinion lived in a crate and peed all over himself in there. (Mr. Tran told me after I bought him that he stayed in a large crate with a wee wee pad and was let out twice a day to play). I have a large crate so I put him in it one night soon after I got Preston thinking that he'd be happy in it since that was what he was used to. He just threw the pad all over the crate and messed himself up horribly. It's disquesting to think that's how he lived for 6 months.
> 
> I have now gotten him to the point where he's good with the family (he finally likes me) and he calms down with some visitors to our house. With most visitors, he goes nuts and won't stop barking and lunging at them. It's horrible. He has bittten people (generally just their clothing) on several occations. Mr. Tran had told me he was wee wee trained and so sweet. After three and a half months, he's come a long way but we're still working on the potty training and other issues.


aww cathy im so sorry , but thankfully he is getting better , and with your love he would overcome all that.


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## MaryH

Yikes, Cathy, this is soooo not good to hear!! Actually, it sucks!! Thank you for letting us all know and bless you for hanging in there with Preston. If we can help at all with training and potty training issues please don't hesitate to ask.

I hate to say it, folks, but check out your puppy or have someone you trust check it out before you seal the deal and put it on a plane. Nobody deserves this sort of surprise.


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## bailey02

maryh said:


> yikes, cathy, this is soooo not good to hear!! Actually, it sucks!! Thank you for letting us all know and bless you for hanging in there with preston. If we can help at all with training and potty training issues please don't hesitate to ask.
> 
> I hate to say it, folks, but check out your puppy or have someone you trust check it out before you seal the deal and put it on a plane. Nobody deserves this sort of surprise.



*100% agree*


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## maltlovereileen

Chalex said:


> This is something that I have wanted to write about but I wasn't sure it was allowed. All a I can say is Bellalady, you are one smart lady. I also asked a lot of questions. Mr. Tran put his wife on the phone who said I couldn't have the dog because I ask too many questions. Instead of seeing this as a red flag, I stupidly stopped asking questions and talked them into following through with the contract. In addition, a well respected member of this forum so kindly offered to meet the dog (and another Diamond that I was considering) so that she could tell me about the dog's temperment. *He wouldn't allow this and said he had too many dogs* and had to send the dog by Sunday (she was going to see the dogs on Monday). Another red flag that I inored.
> 
> So I shut up and didn't have the member meet the dog and ended up with a beautiful, healthy completely unsocialized dog. I have spent practically every minute with him trying to get him socialized. A month ago I couldn't deal with him anymore, and* I asked Mr. Tran if I could return him. He said he'd call me when he got back from showing dogs, but never did*. I've become emotionally attached to him and at this point wouldn't be able to return him, but no one should get a dog from a "good" breeder that in my opinion lived in a crate and peed all over himself in there. (Mr. Tran told me after I bought him that he stayed in a large crate with a wee wee pad and was let out twice a day to play). I have a large crate so I put him in it one night soon after I got Preston thinking that he'd be happy in it since that was what he was used to. He just threw the pad all over the crate and messed himself up horribly. It's disquesting to think that's how he lived for 6 months.
> 
> I have now gotten him to the point where he's good with the family (he finally likes me) and he calms down with some visitors to our house. With most visitors, he goes nuts and won't stop barking and lunging at them. It's horrible. He has bittten people (generally just their clothing) on several occations. Mr. Tran had told me he was wee wee trained and so sweet. After three and a half months, he's come a long way but we're still working on the potty training and other issues.


Wow. This is so not good.   

Bless your heart for hanging in there...it is possible to socialize dogs once past their regular socialization periods, but, as you are finding out, it's quite a bit work. We are here for you... ((((hugs)))) and thank you for sharing your story.


----------



## Snowbody

I'm so sorry for the three posters who had trouble with Diamond. With everyone painting a very rosy picture of them up until now, I guess it would really help everyone out if the bad was posted with the good as far as first-hand experiences go. Even if it's a "PM me if you want more info" post. I can't imagine a breeder who loved their dogs to worry about too many questions since you're placing those beloved pets in their homes. Bellalady, I hope you find your perfect match with both a breeder and a pup.There's a saying, I use for many things in life (work, friends, situations)"If the fish smells bad, throw it back." It might have ended up being the best thing to be let off the "hook" by a breeder who didn't welcome your inquiries. Good luck.


----------



## 3Maltmom

Chalex said:


> This is something that I have wanted to write about but I wasn't sure it was allowed. All a I can say is Bellalady, you are one smart lady. I also asked a lot of questions. Mr. Tran put his wife on the phone who said I couldn't have the dog because I ask too many questions. Instead of seeing this as a red flag, I stupidly stopped asking questions and talked them into following through with the contract. In addition, a well respected member of this forum so kindly offered to meet the dog (and another Diamond that I was considering) so that she could tell me about the dog's temperment. He wouldn't allow this and said he had too many dogs and had to send the dog by Sunday (she was going to see the dogs on Monday). Another red flag that I inored.
> 
> So I shut up and didn't have the member meet the dog and ended up with a beautiful, healthy completely unsocialized dog. I have spent practically every minute with him trying to get him socialized. A month ago I couldn't deal with him anymore, and I asked Mr. Tran if I could return him. He said he'd call me when he got back from showing dogs, but never did. I've become emotionally attached to him and at this point wouldn't be able to return him, but no one should get a dog from a "good" breeder that in my opinion lived in a crate and peed all over himself in there. (Mr. Tran told me after I bought him that he stayed in a large crate with a wee wee pad and was let out twice a day to play). I have a large crate so I put him in it one night soon after I got Preston thinking that he'd be happy in it since that was what he was used to. He just threw the pad all over the crate and messed himself up horribly. It's disquesting to think that's how he lived for 6 months.
> 
> I have now gotten him to the point where he's good with the family (he finally likes me) and he calms down with some visitors to our house. With most visitors, he goes nuts and won't stop barking and lunging at them. It's horrible. He has bittten people (generally just their clothing) on several occations. Mr. Tran had told me he was wee wee trained and so sweet. After three and a half months, he's come a long way but we're still working on the potty training and other issues.


I'm so sorry to hear this. I wish you luck.


----------



## Nikki's Mom

Cathy, I'm so sorry you have had issues, and I hope and pray they are resolved. I wish you the best. I am sure you can help your dog's behavior improve. 

I'm a skeptic. I don't care what anyone says about how great a breeder is. Their recommendations would prompt me to check out the breeder, yes, but I'd have to decide for myself if it was a person I wanted to do business with. I'd have to see my potential pet in person first - at the breeder's home, and I'd want to hang out with it before I buy it. If I have to wait a long time for a puppy, or I have to drive a far distance, that is fine with me. 

If any breeder, even if it is a "top" breeder, thinks that they are "above" answering questions, then imo, that is a red flag. I would never do business with them.


----------



## allheart

Chalex said:


> This is something that I have wanted to write about but I wasn't sure it was allowed. All a I can say is Bellalady, you are one smart lady. I also asked a lot of questions. Mr. Tran put his wife on the phone who said I couldn't have the dog because I ask too many questions. Instead of seeing this as a red flag, I stupidly stopped asking questions and talked them into following through with the contract. In addition, a well respected member of this forum so kindly offered to meet the dog (and another Diamond that I was considering) so that she could tell me about the dog's temperment. He wouldn't allow this and said he had too many dogs and had to send the dog by Sunday (she was going to see the dogs on Monday). Another red flag that I inored.
> 
> So I shut up and didn't have the member meet the dog and ended up with a beautiful, healthy completely unsocialized dog. I have spent practically every minute with him trying to get him socialized. A month ago I couldn't deal with him anymore, and I asked Mr. Tran if I could return him. He said he'd call me when he got back from showing dogs, but never did. I've become emotionally attached to him and at this point wouldn't be able to return him, but no one should get a dog from a "good" breeder that in my opinion lived in a crate and peed all over himself in there. (Mr. Tran told me after I bought him that he stayed in a large crate with a wee wee pad and was let out twice a day to play). I have a large crate so I put him in it one night soon after I got Preston thinking that he'd be happy in it since that was what he was used to. He just threw the pad all over the crate and messed himself up horribly. It's disquesting to think that's how he lived for 6 months.
> 
> I have now gotten him to the point where he's good with the family (he finally likes me) and he calms down with some visitors to our house. With most visitors, he goes nuts and won't stop barking and lunging at them. It's horrible. He has bittten people (generally just their clothing) on several occations. Mr. Tran had told me he was wee wee trained and so sweet. After three and a half months, he's come a long way but we're still working on the potty training and other issues.


 
I too, am so sorry to hear this. Breaks my heart for you and little Preston. Bless you and Preston, and you will see, each day such a difference in the little guy, once all the love you give him, erases, things from his past.

He's a special boy and you are a special Mommy :wub:


----------



## CrystalAndZoe

Nikki's Mom said:


> Cathy, I'm so sorry you have had issues, and I hope and pray they are resolved. I wish you the best. I am sure you can help your dog's behavior improve.
> 
> I'm a skeptic. I don't care what anyone says about how great a breeder is. Their recommendations would prompt me to check out the breeder, yes, but I'd have to decide for myself if it was a person I wanted to do business with. I'd have to see my potential pet in person first - at the breeder's home, and I'd want to hang out with it before I buy it. If I have to wait a long time for a puppy, or I have to drive a far distance, that is fine with me.
> 
> If any breeder, even if it is a "top" breeder, thinks that they are "above" answering questions, then imo, that is a red flag. I would never do business with them.


You said it all gf! I would NEVER get a puppy without meeting the breeder and the puppy first. And I recommend seeing the breeders home or if you have a trusted friend who has seen their home.

And I've said it many MANY times...I ALWAYS question if a breeder can have ethical breeding practices when they make a living at showing and breeding puppies. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying I will ALWAYS question them and must PERSONALLY see their set up for those who are making a living at it before purchasing a puppy from them. And just when did breeding and showing Malts become a way of making a living?

Cathy, I'm sorry you experienced this. And thank you for sharing your experience.


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## Aarianne

I think we, the SM community, need to make an effort not to discourage posts like this. 

Thanks to those who politely shared their negative experiences.


----------



## Nikki's Mom

Aarianne said:


> I think we, the SM community, need to make an effort not to discourage posts like this.
> 
> Thanks to those who politely shared their negative experiences.



I agree. As long as people have first hand experiences and they are polite and respectful and simply provide their experiences, I feel that it can only help the SM community.


----------



## coco

MaryH said:


> Yikes, Cathy, this is soooo not good to hear!! Actually, it sucks!! Thank you for letting us all know and bless you for hanging in there with Preston. If we can help at all with training and potty training issues please don't hesitate to ask.
> 
> I hate to say it, folks, but check out your puppy or have someone you trust check it out before you seal the deal and put it on a plane. Nobody deserves this sort of surprise.


Seeing a dog in a breeder's home doesn't necessarily prove how well socialized the dog is. While I agree it helps, it doesn't guarantee that what you see while at the breeder's home is how things will be when you get the dog home. A dog can run and play with other littermates in it's surroundings, but that doesn't say how the dog will react around strangers and other animals or even the people in your own home.

I'm sorry you ladies have had such a hard time.


----------



## notori

Chalex said:


> This is something that I have wanted to write about but I wasn't sure it was allowed. All a I can say is Bellalady, you are one smart lady. I also asked a lot of questions. Mr. Tran put his wife on the phone who said I couldn't have the dog because I ask too many questions. Instead of seeing this as a red flag, I stupidly stopped asking questions and talked them into following through with the contract. In addition, a well respected member of this forum so kindly offered to meet the dog (and another Diamond that I was considering) so that she could tell me about the dog's temperment. He wouldn't allow this and said he had too many dogs and had to send the dog by Sunday (she was going to see the dogs on Monday). Another red flag that I inored.
> 
> So I shut up and didn't have the member meet the dog and ended up with a beautiful, healthy completely unsocialized dog. I have spent practically every minute with him trying to get him socialized. A month ago I couldn't deal with him anymore, and I asked Mr. Tran if I could return him. He said he'd call me when he got back from showing dogs, but never did. I've become emotionally attached to him and at this point wouldn't be able to return him, but no one should get a dog from a "good" breeder that in my opinion lived in a crate and peed all over himself in there. (Mr. Tran told me after I bought him that he stayed in a large crate with a wee wee pad and was let out twice a day to play). I have a large crate so I put him in it one night soon after I got Preston thinking that he'd be happy in it since that was what he was used to. He just threw the pad all over the crate and messed himself up horribly. It's disquesting to think that's how he lived for 6 months.
> 
> I have now gotten him to the point where he's good with the family (he finally likes me) and he calms down with some visitors to our house. With most visitors, he goes nuts and won't stop barking and lunging at them. It's horrible. He has bittten people (generally just their clothing) on several occations. Mr. Tran had told me he was wee wee trained and so sweet. After three and a half months, he's come a long way but we're still working on the potty training and other issues.


As long as breeders keep their dogs in crates most of the time you will not have socialzed pups, period.


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## janettandamber

I understand where the op is coming from. Some of these reputable breeder will post an older puppy that is in long coat and feel insulted if you ask for more pictures, and then say oh by the way I cut the dogs coat. I had this happen to me by a well respected breeder. To me post what the pup looks like now. After all we can't touch or see the pup play. They think because it is their pup you insult them if you ask questions. You should buy just because they are show breeders.


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## roxybaby22

Chalex said:


> This is something that I have wanted to write about but I wasn't sure it was allowed. All a I can say is Bellalady, you are one smart lady. I also asked a lot of questions. Mr. Tran put his wife on the phone who said I couldn't have the dog because I ask too many questions. Instead of seeing this as a red flag, I stupidly stopped asking questions and talked them into following through with the contract. In addition, a well respected member of this forum so kindly offered to meet the dog (and another Diamond that I was considering) so that she could tell me about the dog's temperment. He wouldn't allow this and said he had too many dogs and had to send the dog by Sunday (she was going to see the dogs on Monday). Another red flag that I inored.
> 
> So I shut up and didn't have the member meet the dog and ended up with a beautiful, healthy completely unsocialized dog. I have spent practically every minute with him trying to get him socialized. A month ago I couldn't deal with him anymore, and I asked Mr. Tran if I could return him. He said he'd call me when he got back from showing dogs, but never did. I've become emotionally attached to him and at this point wouldn't be able to return him, but no one should get a dog from a "good" breeder that in my opinion lived in a crate and peed all over himself in there. (Mr. Tran told me after I bought him that he stayed in a large crate with a wee wee pad and was let out twice a day to play). I have a large crate so I put him in it one night soon after I got Preston thinking that he'd be happy in it since that was what he was used to. He just threw the pad all over the crate and messed himself up horribly. It's disquesting to think that's how he lived for 6 months.
> 
> I have now gotten him to the point where he's good with the family (he finally likes me) and he calms down with some visitors to our house. With most visitors, he goes nuts and won't stop barking and lunging at them. It's horrible. He has bittten people (generally just their clothing) on several occations. Mr. Tran had told me he was wee wee trained and so sweet. After three and a half months, he's come a long way but we're still working on the potty training and other issues.


I'm so sorry, Cathy. I hope Preston's behavior continues to improve. :grouphug:

And to the OP, I hope you find your perfect companion, it just wasn't meant to be.


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## MaryH

coco said:


> Seeing a dog in a breeder's home doesn't necessarily prove how well socialized the dog is. While I agree it helps, it doesn't guarantee that what you see while at the breeder's home is how things will be when you get the dog home. A dog can run and play with other littermates in it's surroundings, but that doesn't say how the dog will react around strangers and other animals or even the people in your own home.


I totally agree. Many of the rescue dogs we've taken in we keep in foster homes for at least 10-14 days so that they are given a chance to show their true colors. True colors don't necessarily show in a 1-2 hour visit. But at least I will have an opportunity to see how the dogs live, how clean they are, whether they are tear and urine stained, and most importantly how they interact with their breeder and the other dogs in the house. Depending on it's age, it's maybe okay if a dog is a bit shy or tentative towards me during a visit, but if it shows no interest in its breeder or if it acts like it's scared stiff when taken out of its pen and away from its littermates then I'd be concerned. From a breeder standpoint I want to meet the person interested in my puppies, I want them to see my home and the environment in which my puppies are raised and I want to observe their interaction with all my dogs. I don't live in a mansion, I'm not going to give the grand tour to strangers, but I will without hesitation show you where my dogs live and how they are raised. I've never been surprised or disappointed by the dogs that I've adopted or purchased and I've yet to have anyone say to me or to anyone else that they didn't get what they thought they were getting with one of my puppies. That's just the way I do things and thankfully it's worked out well for everyone.


----------



## EmmasMommy

*Lost in Translation?*

I am both surprised and dismayed at the negative posts here about Du Tran and his Diamond Maltese. I have had nothing but positive experiences with him.

I have 3 of his Maltese and I could not be more pleased with each of them, or how I have been treated by him in all of our interactions. He always answered questions and was willing to help me. He even had me bring my pups in so he could show me some grooming tips on full coat/matt management long after my purchase.

He has helped me with picking out pups to meet my 'perfect match"of what I was looking for, tips on puppy care and socializing and integration into our family, grooming and health/dental matters. He helped me with finding a dog handler and has given me good advice with showing etc..

Now I must say...........and all of the posters who have spoken to him know this to be true. Some things get lost in translation. I thing communication can be difficult at times , as english is not his native language( he is Viet namese). Sometimes I believe things have to be repeated to be clearly understood.

I believe Mr Tran's asian culture takes offense with some implicationsand I think it can be frustrating to him, such as statements like "How do I know I am getting the puppy that you sent pictures of?" This type of statement would be taken to heart by him. Its an insult to his being honest and having integrity and that is the ultimate insult in asian cultures.

Also all of my 3 Diamond dogs and every dog I have met that he has shown to me is a happy, frisky,healthy, beautiful well socialized pup/dog, even the show dogs. 

All of my dogs were partially potty trained at the time I received them and this includes my retiree JilliBean (aka Bleu Jade)who had just had pups a few months prior.

Also to set the record straight Mr Tran is a jeweler. He owns a full time business in Orlando and does not make his living from selling his dogs and selling his puppies. They are his hobby and his love.

I hope that a few others that have had good experiences like I have , can chime in. I would hate for Mr Tran to get black balled because communication was less than optimal. If you have any doubts just call Joyce Watkins and ask her about him.

Like I said in the beginning of my post I believe most of the communications were LOST IN TRANSLATION and misinterpreted.


----------



## CrystalAndZoe

EmmasMommy said:


> I am both surprised and dismayed at the negative posts here about Du Tran and his Diamond Maltese. I have had nothing but positive experiences with him.
> 
> I have 3 of his Maltese and I could not be more pleased with each of them, or how I have been treated by him in all of our interactions. He always answered questions and was willing to help me. He even had me bring my pups in so he could show me some grooming tips on full coat/matt management long after my purchase.
> 
> He has helped me with picking out pups to meet my 'perfect match"of what I was looking for, tips on puppy care and socializing and integration into our family, grooming and health/dental matters. He helped me with finding a dog handler and has given me good advice with showing etc..
> 
> Now I must say...........and all of the posters who have spoken to him know this to be true. Some things get lost in translation. I thing communication can be difficult at times , as english is not his native language( he is Viet namese). Sometimes I believe things have to be repeated to be clearly understood.
> 
> I believe Mr Tran's asian culture takes offense with some implicationsand I think it can be frustrating to him, such as statements like "How do I know I am getting the puppy that you sent pictures of?" This type of statement would be taken to heart by him. Its an insult to his being honest and having integrity and that is the ultimate insult in asian cultures.
> 
> Also all of my 3 Diamond dogs and every dog I have met that he has shown to me is a happy, frisky,healthy, beautiful well socialized pup/dog, even the show dogs.
> 
> All of my dogs were partially potty trained at the time I received them and this includes my retiree JilliBean (aka Bleu Jade)who had just had pups a few months prior.
> 
> Also to set the record straight Mr Tran is a jeweler. He owns a full time business in Orlando and does not make his living from selling his dogs and selling his puppies. They are his hobby and his love.
> 
> I hope that a few others that have had good experiences like I have , can chime in. I would hate for Mr Tran to get black balled because communication was less than optimal. If you have any doubts just call Joyce Watkins and ask her about him.
> 
> Like I said in the beginning of my post I believe most of the communications were LOST IN TRANSLATION and misinterpreted.


Cat, I think it's good that you are posting a positive experience(s) with Diamond Maltese. And it's something to consider when dealing with someone from another culture that possibly what we would consider a normal question would be a huge insult to someone from another culture. However, I do believe that since he's living here in the US, he should be just as considerate and understanding of how we speak and act.

I also want to make sure everyone understands that in my post about breeders who make a living at showing and breeding dogs was not really about Diamond Maltese. I can totally see now how it could appear that way. But I was making a general statement about any breeder that make a living from showing and breeding Maltese, following Suzan's (Nikki's Mom) generalized point, which is why I included it in my response.


----------



## CloudClan

coco said:


> Seeing a dog in a breeder's home doesn't necessarily prove how well socialized the dog is. While I agree it helps, it doesn't guarantee that what you see while at the breeder's home is how things will be when you get the dog home. A dog can run and play with other littermates in it's surroundings, but that doesn't say how the dog will react around strangers and other animals or even the people in your own home.
> 
> I'm sorry you ladies have had such a hard time.





MaryH said:


> I totally agree. Many of the rescue dogs we've taken in we keep in foster homes for at least 10-14 days so that they are given a chance to show their true colors. True colors don't necessarily show in a 1-2 hour visit. But at least I will have an opportunity to see how the dogs live, how clean they are, whether they are tear and urine stained, and most importantly how they interact with their breeder and the other dogs in the house. Depending on it's age, it's maybe okay if a dog is a bit shy or tentative towards me during a visit, but if it shows no interest in its breeder or if it acts like it's scared stiff when taken out of its pen and away from its littermates then I'd be concerned. From a breeder standpoint I want to meet the person interested in my puppies, I want them to see my home and the environment in which my puppies are raised and I want to observe their interaction with all my dogs. I don't live in a mansion, I'm not going to give the grand tour to strangers, but I will without hesitation show you where my dogs live and how they are raised. I've never been surprised or disappointed by the dogs that I've adopted or purchased and I've yet to have anyone say to me or to anyone else that they didn't get what they thought they were getting with one of my puppies. That's just the way I do things and thankfully it's worked out well for everyone.


I have said on this forum many times that while I realize some people have had very good luck having puppies shipped to them, I would never be comfortable with getting a puppy without meeting the breeder and his or her dogs in person. For many of the reasons listed above. I know it is not fool-proof. There are plenty of things that you will NOT learn in such a visit. But there are also plenty of things you will. 



EmmasMommy said:


> I am both surprised and dismayed at the negative posts here about Du Tran and his Diamond Maltese. I have had nothing but positive experiences with him.


Cat, I am glad you have come to this thread to post your positive experiences. I think it is important to keep that balance. 

I think this whole thing illustrates something else that we should all understand. Breeders and their puppies are not one size fits all. What makes one person thrilled with a breeder may not work as well for others. 

I truly believe that part of the research process is recognizing what you hope to find in not only the dog, but also in the breeder of that dog. This means that every individual has to go through their own process understand their own expectations. And we all need to let people do that by being cautious about recommending breeders to others who may have a different vision for what they expect.


----------



## chachingcherry

*Diamond Maltese*

Its great to hear someone tells just how culture can play apart in 
communication. I also feel that communication can be lost with people whom have one track minds, not open. Dog breeding and showing is a hobby. I don't know of anyone who can make a living off showing and selling puppies. All The top breeders I know spend way more money than people can even understand that have never shown before.
Diamond Maltese has spent alot of time showing and careing for there dogs and take great pride in the pups produced. Breeders of quality Maltese want to make sure the pups don't fall into the hands of backyard breeders or possible bad homes. Generally, if a person of quality Maltese with ethics won't sell a dog to a person, there is a good reason not disclosed. Remember, there is always two sides to every story. I'm sure in this case the side we don't know is the real reason this pup was not sold, it is clear it was not about money.


----------



## Bellalady

I am happy you had a wonderful experience and have 3 beautiful pups (and they are beautiful) from him. Your positive experience is as valid as someone's negative experience. Noone, especially me, is trying to "blackball" him. I believe he has beautiful dogs and if someone wants to buy from him they should absolutely do so. Perhaps my personality is different than some but I like to have as much information as possible to make an informed decision. Certainly, I would be open to all sides, good and bad, when making such an important decision as buying a living, breathing being. 

This is the first time I have "blogged" and I must say, I am not sure I am cut out for it. I appreciate all of the advice from those of you who offered it. Best of luck. 









EmmasMommy said:


> I am both surprised and dismayed at the negative posts here about Du Tran and his Diamond Maltese. I have had nothing but positive experiences with him.
> 
> I have 3 of his Maltese and I could not be more pleased with each of them, or how I have been treated by him in all of our interactions. He always answered questions and was willing to help me. He even had me bring my pups in so he could show me some grooming tips on full coat/matt management long after my purchase.
> 
> He has helped me with picking out pups to meet my 'perfect match"of what I was looking for, tips on puppy care and socializing and integration into our family, grooming and health/dental matters. He helped me with finding a dog handler and has given me good advice with showing etc..
> 
> Now I must say...........and all of the posters who have spoken to him know this to be true. Some things get lost in translation. I thing communication can be difficult at times , as english is not his native language( he is Viet namese). Sometimes I believe things have to be repeated to be clearly understood.
> 
> I believe Mr Tran's asian culture takes offense with some implicationsand I think it can be frustrating to him, such as statements like "How do I know I am getting the puppy that you sent pictures of?" This type of statement would be taken to heart by him. Its an insult to his being honest and having integrity and that is the ultimate insult in asian cultures.
> 
> Also all of my 3 Diamond dogs and every dog I have met that he has shown to me is a happy, frisky,healthy, beautiful well socialized pup/dog, even the show dogs.
> 
> All of my dogs were partially potty trained at the time I received them and this includes my retiree JilliBean (aka Bleu Jade)who had just had pups a few months prior.
> 
> Also to set the record straight Mr Tran is a jeweler. He owns a full time business in Orlando and does not make his living from selling his dogs and selling his puppies. They are his hobby and his love.
> 
> I hope that a few others that have had good experiences like I have , can chime in. I would hate for Mr Tran to get black balled because communication was less than optimal. If you have any doubts just call Joyce Watkins and ask her about him.
> 
> Like I said in the beginning of my post I believe most of the communications were LOST IN TRANSLATION and misinterpreted.


----------



## MaryH

chachingcherry said:


> Remember, there is always two sides to every story. I'm sure in this case the side we don't know is the real reason this pup was not sold, it is clear it was not about money.


I just reread this entire thread and could not find any references to money being at issue in this puppy sale. Three people have come forward with first-hand personal experiences all of a similar type. If any breeder has a "real reason" for cancelling a sale then I feel that the breeder should be forthright in disclosing to the buyer what the real reason is. As was pointed out in an earlier post -- _Breeders and their puppies are not one size fits all. What makes one person thrilled with a breeder may not work as well for others. __-- _and if only positive first-hand commentary is allowed and negative first-hand commentary not allowed, then we are helping to create more disappointing situations for those people who do want/need to ask questions before making a lifetime commitment to a living, breathing being.


----------



## coco

Quote:
Originally Posted by *coco*  
_Seeing a dog in a breeder's home doesn't necessarily prove how well socialized the dog is. While I agree it helps, it doesn't guarantee that what you see while at the breeder's home is how things will be when you get the dog home. A dog can run and play with other littermates in it's surroundings, but that doesn't say how the dog will react around strangers and other animals or even the people in your own home.

I'm sorry you ladies have had such a hard time._

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MaryH*  
_I totally agree. Many of the rescue dogs we've taken in we keep in foster homes for at least 10-14 days so that they are given a chance to show their true colors. True colors don't necessarily show in a 1-2 hour visit. But at least I will have an opportunity to see how the dogs live, how clean they are, whether they are tear and urine stained, and most importantly how they interact with their breeder and the other dogs in the house. Depending on it's age, it's maybe okay if a dog is a bit shy or tentative towards me during a visit, but if it shows no interest in its breeder or if it acts like it's scared stiff when taken out of its pen and away from its littermates then I'd be concerned. From a breeder standpoint I want to meet the person interested in my puppies, I want them to see my home and the environment in which my puppies are raised and I want to observe their interaction with all my dogs. I don't live in a mansion, I'm not going to give the grand tour to strangers, but I will without hesitation show you where my dogs live and how they are raised. I've never been surprised or disappointed by the dogs that I've adopted or purchased and I've yet to have anyone say to me or to anyone else that they didn't get what they thought they were getting with one of my puppies. That's just the way I do things and thankfully it's worked out well for everyone._

I have said on this forum many times that while I realize some people have had very good luck having puppies shipped to them, I would never be comfortable with getting a puppy without meeting the breeder and his or her dogs in person. For many of the reasons listed above. I know it is not fool-proof. There are plenty of things that you will NOT learn in such a visit. But there are also plenty of things you will. 
Cloud Clan

----------------
I've yet to figure out how you quote from different posts, so I had to copy and paste.

Never did I say that seeing the breeders home wasn't in a person's best interest, but some cannot afford to go to the breeder's home. My point is that one can go to the breeder's home, meet the breeder, see the pups and still end up with a dog which is not socialized properly. As for staining, etc., I'd think most breeders would bathe their dogs before a potential buyer saw the dogs. I've even heard of products being used on pups to get rid of the staining before a buyer sees the dogs. Either of my dogs could have been shipped to me, and I would still have the same dogs I saw when I went to the breeders home. Both homes were clean, both breeders had clean dogs, both answered all my questions and both were lovely people. It's my opinion that it is hard to tell how well socialized a dog will be when taken from the breeders home and placed in a new environment.

This has nothing to do with Diamond Maltese, but I wanted to address the posts in reply to mine.


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## Nikki's Mom

Bellalady said:


> I am happy you had a wonderful experience and have 3 beautiful pups (and they are beautiful) from him. Your positive experience is as valid as someone's negative experience. Noone, especially me, is trying to "blackball" him. I believe he has beautiful dogs and if someone wants to buy from him they should absolutely do so. Perhaps my personality is different than some but I like to have as much information as possible to make an informed decision. Certainly, I would be open to all sides, good and bad, when making such an important decision as buying a living, breathing being.
> 
> This is the first time I have "blogged" and I must say, I am not sure I am cut out for it. I appreciate all of the advice from those of you who offered it. Best of luck.


It would be great if you could stick around. There are a lot of nice people here who are very helpful.


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## k/c mom

> I've yet to figure out how you quote from different posts, so I had to copy and paste.


Mary Ann, to do a "Multi-Quote"... click the multi-quote icon at the far right at the bottom of the posting box and as shown in my screen print below for each post you want to quote. When you are finished with the multi-quote, go to the bottom left of the page and click "Post Reply" just as you usually would do, and all the quoted threads will appear in the posting box. That's the way I do it. I usually make sure that my reply is directly under the original post and then put at least 3 spaces between that reply and the start of the next quote, so it will be easy for people to read. There are probably other ways, too!


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## coco

k/c mom said:


> Mary Ann, to do a "Multi-Quote"... click the multi-quote icon at the far right at the bottom of the posting box and as shown in my screen print below for each post you want to quote. When you are finished with the multi-quote, go to the original post and click "Quote" just as you usually would do, and the other quotes will appear, along with the main one. That's the way I do it. There are probably other ways, too!


Thank you!! Guess I should look around a bit more.:thumbsup:


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## maltlovereileen

MaryH said:


> I just reread this entire thread and could not find any references to money being at issue in this puppy sale. Three people have come forward with first-hand personal experiences all of a similar type. If any breeder has a "real reason" for cancelling a sale then I feel that the breeder should be forthright in disclosing to the buyer what the real reason is. As was pointed out in an earlier post -- _Breeders and their puppies are not one size fits all. What makes one person thrilled with a breeder may not work as well for others. __-- _and* if only positive first-hand commentary is allowed and negative first-hand commentary not allowed, then we are helping to create more disappointing situations for those people who do want/need to ask questions before making a lifetime commitment to a living, breathing being.*


:goodpost:


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## Delilahs Mommy

So sorry to hear this, I don't know the breeder mentioned, but it seems weird that a breeder with his supposed good reputation would have these issues. Hang in there, your special baby is out there and the wait, search and questions will be well worth it. Good luck!


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## Miss_Annie

Nikki's Mom said:


> It would be great if you could stick around. There are a lot of nice people here who are very helpful.


Agreed! Please don't be discouraged...  Everyone actually does mean well. We all want you to stay!


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## CrystalAndZoe

Bellalady said:


> I am happy you had a wonderful experience and have 3 beautiful pups (and they are beautiful) from him. Your positive experience is as valid as someone's negative experience. Noone, especially me, is trying to "blackball" him. I believe he has beautiful dogs and if someone wants to buy from him they should absolutely do so. Perhaps my personality is different than some but I like to have as much information as possible to make an informed decision. Certainly, I would be open to all sides, good and bad, when making such an important decision as buying a living, breathing being.
> 
> This is the first time I have "blogged" and I must say, I am not sure I am cut out for it. I appreciate all of the advice from those of you who offered it. Best of luck.



Oh I really do hope you stay. Unfortunately you had a difficult... controversial topic with your first thread. It really is a fun place to learn and make friends. Most topics are really tons of fun and light hearted.

It's easy to share positive experiences, but not so much a negative one. I wish more people would share those as well. It would really help those looking for a puppy find the right breeder for them. As it's been already mentioned, not every breeder is the right fit.

Again...I really hope you stay and give us a chance to get to know you and you a chance to get to know us!


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## godiva goddess

Aarianne said:


> I think we, the SM community, need to make an effort not to discourage posts like this.
> 
> Thanks to those who politely shared their negative experiences.


Agreed. Too many often jump on new members' posts..very unfortunate. 

OP, I hope you stay and good luck finding your pup!


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

CloudClan said:


> I think asking questions is an important part of finding the right fit for your family. If asking too many questions is the reason that this did not work out then I think you were saved from a situation that would not have been ideal for you or your new puppy.
> 
> It sounds like you are being very careful and I hope that you will not be discouraged by this. It will pay off.


Ditto to what Carina has expressed here.

I don't think we can ever ask too many questions when it comes to considering bringing home a pup to his/her forever home. Snowball's breeder still welcomes questions from us ... four years later. And, she has even invited us to bring Snowball back to see her for a visit. 

The best of luck to you on your search for a wonderful new fluff baby addition to your family.


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## Snowball Pie's Mommi

Chalex said:


> This is something that I have wanted to write about but I wasn't sure it was allowed. All a I can say is Bellalady, you are one smart lady. I also asked a lot of questions. Mr. Tran put his wife on the phone who said I couldn't have the dog because I ask too many questions. Instead of seeing this as a red flag, I stupidly stopped asking questions and talked them into following through with the contract. In addition, a well respected member of this forum so kindly offered to meet the dog (and another Diamond that I was considering) so that she could tell me about the dog's temperment. He wouldn't allow this and said he had too many dogs and had to send the dog by Sunday (she was going to see the dogs on Monday). Another red flag that I inored.
> 
> So I shut up and didn't have the member meet the dog and ended up with a beautiful, healthy completely unsocialized dog. I have spent practically every minute with him trying to get him socialized. A month ago I couldn't deal with him anymore, and I asked Mr. Tran if I could return him. He said he'd call me when he got back from showing dogs, but never did. I've become emotionally attached to him and at this point wouldn't be able to return him, but no one should get a dog from a "good" breeder that in my opinion lived in a crate and peed all over himself in there. (Mr. Tran told me after I bought him that he stayed in a large crate with a wee wee pad and was let out twice a day to play). I have a large crate so I put him in it one night soon after I got Preston thinking that he'd be happy in it since that was what he was used to. He just threw the pad all over the crate and messed himself up horribly. It's disquesting to think that's how he lived for 6 months.
> 
> I have now gotten him to the point where he's good with the family (he finally likes me) and he calms down with some visitors to our house. With most visitors, he goes nuts and won't stop barking and lunging at them. It's horrible. He has bittten people (generally just their clothing) on several occations. Mr. Tran had told me he was wee wee trained and so sweet. After three and a half months, he's come a long way but we're still working on the potty training and other issues.


Thank you for sharing your story. :Flowers 2: I am sorry for what you have had to experience.

Bless your heart. Despite it all, I think Preston was meant to be with you. You are a wonderful Mommy for him ... with being patient, and taking those baby steps, in working to help make Preston feel more secure and less anxious.


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## k/c mom

Just some general thoughts, not necessarily about this exact situation but general thoughts ... To help me keep it straight and not ramble too much I'm going to put them down numerically ....

1. Breeders' main "thing" is to show their dogs. They aren't salespeople or necessarily people-people. In fact many dog people really don't relate all that well to people ... they do better with animals. But a show breeder has to breed in order to have dogs to show. This means that the breeder is "forced" to become a cutomer service rep and salesperson when this may not at all be in their true nature. Some people are good talkers and know how to say all the right things and they like to interact with people, explain things, etc. But what if there is a good breeder who is shy or in this case has limited use of the English language and whose native culture is very different from the buyer's. 

2. I think that a breeder can pride oneself on being an hororable person and may not understand why he/she is being asked questions and may, in fact, see the asking of questions as a distrust.

3. When someone asks a lot of questions a breeder may see that as just too much trouble. This isn't their business. They do this for "fun" and why sell to someone who may be high maintenance when they can just wait and sell to someone else.

4. Please note that I am not saying we shouldn't ask questions but just how a breeder could interpret the questions. I really think that there can be reputable breeders who click with certain people and don't click with others and yet they can still be a reputable breeder. Just like with people that we meet in other situations .. some we get along with and have a great rapport and with others we just can't seem to bond at all.

5. It may be that some breeders need to get some more information on how to socialize puppies. A show breeder's main knowledge is probably grooming and showing adults. Just because they can do that well does not mean they know the ins and outs of socializing puppies.


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## MaryH

I'm fairly new to breeding but not at all new to placing dogs (all those years in rescue). I'm going to share my honest thoughts to your points below and would love if other breeders who are on this forum would do that, too. Hopefully some other breeders will join in and hopefully we will all learn a little bit from each others points of view ... 



k/c mom said:


> Just some general thoughts, not necessarily about this exact situation but general thoughts ... To help me keep it straight and not ramble too much I'm going to put them down numerically ....
> 
> 1. Breeders' main "thing" is to show their dogs. They aren't salespeople or necessarily people-people. In fact many dog people really don't relate all that well to people ... they do better with animals. But a show breeder has to breed in order to have dogs to show. This means that the breeder is "forced" to become a cutomer service rep and salesperson when this may not at all be in their true nature. Some people are good talkers and know how to say all the right things and they like to interact with people, explain things, etc. But what if there is a good breeder who is shy or in this case has limited use of the English language and whose native culture is very different from the buyer's.
> 
> As in all aspects of life, some people are way more comfortable in a customer service role than others. I can't always respond to an email or a phone call within a day or sometimes even a week depending on what else in my life is getting in the way. And, honestly, sometimes I don't respond at all depending on the nature of the inquiry. The inquiries I tend to ignore are the emails from an unidentified source who say not much more than "how much are your puppies and please send me pictures". Personally, I'd rather spend time with the person who has a million questions than spend time with someone whose initial interest appears to go no further than the surface. I hope that I never come across as a good talker who knows how to say the right thing. I always strive to give good accurate information. Language barriers and cultural differences go both ways but should not be used to excuse anyone from poor behavior. I wonder what folks would think if I responded to a person inquiring about a puppy whose native language is not English that I did not want to sell to them because I'm having too much difficulty understanding what they are saying or asking.
> 
> 2. I think that a breeder can pride oneself on being an hororable person and may not understand why he/she is being asked questions and may, in fact, see the asking of questions as a distrust.
> 
> Buying anything long distance has its risks. Both the buyer and the seller need to understand that. If a seller is willing to sell long distance then I think the seller should be prepared to provide reasonable proof that they are selling what they say they are selling. If that means that a buyer is asking for a current picture, current weight, current veterinary records, well so be it. Those should be things a seller is prepared to provide to someone they are willing to sell to long distance. If a buyer comes to my home to see puppies I already have out and ready for them a copy of my contract, a copy of the health history to date, and a copy of the pedigree.
> 
> 3. When someone asks a lot of questions a breeder may see that as just too much trouble. This isn't their business. They do this for "fun" and why sell to someone who may be high maintenance when they can just wait and sell to someone else.
> 
> I think it's reasonable for a seller to ask a buyer to "make a list of all your questions over the next few days and let's catch up on X night to discuss them." and would hope that a buyer would understand a request like that also. We do all have other things in our lives needing our attention, not the least of which is our dogs. In the end if a buyer needs more or a seller needs less then each should move on and hopefully both will move on with no hard feelings.
> 
> 4. Please note that I am not saying we shouldn't ask questions but just how a breeder could interpret the questions. I really think that there can be reputable breeders who click with certain people and don't click with others and yet they can still be a reputable breeder. Just like with people that we meet in other situations .. some we get along with and have a great rapport and with others we just can't seem to bond at all.
> 
> I agree that the click is all important. But I would really hope the click or lack thereof is identified long before a contract is signed and pickup date settled on.
> 
> 5. It may be that some breeders need to get some more information on how to socialize puppies. A show breeder's main knowledge is probably grooming and showing adults. Just because they can do that well does not mean they know the ins and outs of socializing puppies.
> 
> I would hope that a breeder's knowledge of socializing puppies is one of the strongest tools in their toolbox. A puppy's success, whether in the show ring or in transitioning to a new home, hinges in large part on their social skills and self-confidence. If a breeder does not know how to socialize puppies or does not bring in help for socializing the puppies I honestly would question whether or not that person should be breeding.


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## coco

5. It may be that some breeders need to get some more information on how to socialize puppies. A show breeder's main knowledge is probably grooming and showing adults. Just because they can do that well does not mean they know the ins and outs of socializing puppies. Sher

I would hope that a breeder's knowledge of socializing puppies is one of the strongest tools in their toolbox. A puppy's success, whether in the show ring or in transitioning to a new home, hinges in large part on their social skills and self-confidence. If a breeder does not know how to socialize puppies or does not bring in help for socializing the puppies I honestly would question whether or not that person should be breeding. Mary H

I could not agree more. Honestly, a healthy dog is what we all want, but a dog which is not great in socialization skills isn't a great deal of fun, either. Not to beat a dead horse, but a breeder can say a dog is well socialized but until you get it home, you never know.


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## Tina

I am glad that you are able to tell of your experience with a breeder. As a breeder myself, it can be more difficult dealing with someone who doesn't come to your house and see your dogs. I am *always* open to questions. 

I am an RN. I worked in Lawrence, KS at the hospital. This city is the true melting pot of America. I took care of people from all sorts of religions, races, and ethnic groups. It was fun, but you did have to learn to communicate with people so very different from yourself. How you look at something isn't the same as how they look at it. It is important that everyone gets on the same page. 

A breeder should be responsible for the dogs they breed. I just accepted back a dog from a family in Olathe. He just did not fit into their family like they wanted him to. They kept him crated a lot because he wouldn't completely potty train. This was a young family with really young children. I have him in an exercise pen with another male a bit younger, but he is using the pee pads. He is very well mannered. He gets out in the yard when it isn't wet once a day. The family had 2 other dogs, all males. Pippin was probably marking right behind the other dog, but the other dog was sneakier. I am glad I got him back instead of loosing him in the cracks or being sent to an animal shelter. Pippin misses playing with the little girl he had. 

I have probably unknowingly upset potential puppy buyers or retired adult buyers. It depends on what is going on in my life at the time I get inquiries. There have been times I have not sold a dog someone wanted because of something they said or didn't say. Something triggers a red flag. I want more than anything for the dog to go into a good home with someone who will love them beyond life. That is what a Maltese is bred for. The ultimate companion. They love beyond themselves. I love the feel of them and love being touched by them, its a healing experience.


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## bonsmom

I have probably unknowingly upset potential puppy buyers or retired adult buyers. It depends on what is going on in my life at the time I get inquiries. There have been times I have not sold a dog someone wanted because of something they said or didn't say. Something triggers a red flag. I want more than anything for the dog to go into a good home with someone who will love them beyond life. That is what a Maltese is bred for. The ultimate companion. They love beyond themselves. I love the feel of them and love being touched by them, its a healing experience.[/QUOTE]

What a wonderful post. You sound like the definition of an ethical breeder! Your pups and your clients are blessed to have you.


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## Lacie's Mom

Some of you may or may not know, but Diamond Maltese was turned down for AMA membership at this years National Meeting even though Mr. Tran was there in person to plead his case. This, to me, is a red flag in and of itself.


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## Nikki's Mom

I think that this is a good conversation. I have a lot to learn about Maltese breeders.

I understand that not every breeder or potential buyer has good customer service skills or manners. I might be wrong about my opinions, as I haven't done business with many Maltese breeders. I worked in customer service management for many years, and with people from all over the world. I totally understand that there are cultural differences, and have had to negotiate and navigate my way through those differences many times. 

So if I am wrong about any of my opinions, I'd be glad to be educated by some knowledgeable show breeders here. 

IMO, a show breeder should be happy that a potential buyer asks a lot of questions, and in turn, a show breeder should ask a lot of questions of the buyer as well. 

I don't mean that a potential buyer should be a pest, or be rude to the seller. What I mean is, a breeder who is confident that they have excellent breeding practices and wonderful puppies should be happy to share details with a buyer, and if necessary, patiently repeat themselves to ensure they buyer has all the details correct before the sale is made. Everyone is busy these days, and perhaps a little bit of patience on both sides is needed, especially when the sale involves a good bit of money, and a living thing that the buyer will share 15 plus years with, is buying sight unseen, and is probably a little bit nervous about the whole thing. 

And besides, doesn't a show breeder realize that people will talk about their experience? Don't they want to maintain a good reputation within the Maltese community, or do they think that they are above reproach if they've been around awhile? 

If I were a show breeder selling a puppy, I'd want to know that the buyer knew everything they needed to know about me, the puppy, and the contract before the sale is finished, especially if a buyer was having their puppy shipped. I wouldn't want any unpleasant surprises, or issues afterward that could have been avoided by good communication upfront. 

In all honesty, if I were a show breeder and the buyer DIDN'T ask a lot of questions, that would be a red flag to me. 

On the other hand, cultural differences taken into consideration, telling a buyer they ask too many questions is simply not acceptable to me, and sounds quite arrogant. I would have probably told the breeder "Thank you, I will look elsewhere for a puppy," BEFORE they had a chance to tell me that the deal was off.


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## chachingcherry

*WOW! I understand what is going on.*



Lacie's Mom said:


> Some of you may or may not know, but Diamond Maltese was turned down for AMA membership at this years National Meeting even though Mr. Tran was there in person to plead his case. This, to me, is a red flag in and of itself.


 What happened at this meeting, do you recall?


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## chachingcherry

What was the reason Mr. Tran was turned down? How did you know he was at the meeting? What is the red flag in and of itself?


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## theboyz

I think it is good to hear all experiences with Breeders.
I would not get a puppy from someone that was angry with my questions. Far to many great Breeders out there that will take time to answer anything and do not mind the caring, questioning new buyer. Seems to me that the more questions the better I would feel that the new person is genuinely interested in the breed, puppy and how to be a good "parent".
I would love the Breeder to have lots of questions for me as well.
Hope the OP found a new Breeder and new baby.


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## chachingcherry

:aktion033lease understand this man is a great person. He cares about his dogs and just wants the very best for them. This is what a good breeder does. Please do not let these past posts influence your thoughts about this man. If you are interested in these quality Maltese, make sure you contact him and see for yourself. 
HANG IN THERE MR. TRAN, you have lots of fans, we love your winning dogs in the ring:ThankYou:


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## tamizami

i do not know mr. tran and have never done business with him, but i think it is only fair to point out that mr. tran had both an AKC judge and Joyce Watkins speak very HIGHLY of him at the AMA meeting.


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## theboyz

I do not know him, I am saying I would want a different kind of Breeder to work with. A friendly one that would talk to me and answer all my question and concerns.
Can't give my opinion on Mr. Tran and not knocking his Diamond Maltese.






chachingcherry said:


> :aktion033lease understand this man is a great person. He cares about his dogs and just wants the very best for them. This is what a good breeder does. Please do not let these past posts influence your thoughts about this man. If you are interested in these quality Maltese, make sure you contact him and see for yourself.
> HANG IN THERE MR. TRAN, you have lots of fans, we love your winning dogs in the ring:ThankYou:


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## Nikki's Mom

I too have no personal opinion on Mr. Tran or Diamond. I am sure he is a very nice person and he loves his dogs. Several members here have done business with him, and have had a great experience. His dogs are lovely. 

To clarify, my opinions were given in general toward the _situation _as it was described by the person who did business with him, and really not toward him personally. 

My aim with my posts here is to encourage discussion in general about Malt show breeders, and to learn what is appropriate communication between a show breeder and prospective owner. 

Perhaps I should have started a new thread, so it wouldn't seem as if I were stating negative opinions directly about Mr. Tran or Diamond. If it seemed that way to some of you, I apologize.


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## Tina

Lacie's Mom said:


> Some of you may or may not know, but Diamond Maltese was turned down for AMA membership at this years National Meeting even though Mr. Tran was there in person to plead his case. This, to me, is a red flag in and of itself.


In my opinion, the AMA is a very very cliquish club. They turn down so many potential members. In the 1960's when the AMA was formed they had over 600 members from all over the US and other countries. Now, they have around 260 members. You wanted to be a member and you didn't have sponsors they helped you get them and became a member.I can name around 10 people who applied, had sponsors, and were turn down when voted on for them to become members. They were never told why. These people are great people, care about their Maltese and in the betterment of Maltese. Would have been contributing members of the AMA.The rules for a breeder to be a member of the AMA (unspoken) is to breed very little, do not sell very many puppies a year, and become a member before you establish yourself in Maltese. 
I understand with Mr Tran some of the AMA members contacted other members and put the word out that he was to be voted, NO. He has too many Maltese and has them advertised on his web site. He had $40,000 of Maltese posted on his web site. When I looked he had approximately 10 Maltese for sale of different ages and he had what he was asking for them posted on his web site. He isn't asking any more than some of the top tier Maltese breeders are asking for theirs. There were 60 some (approximate) members present at the AMA meeting. The members voted 20 yes, 38 no and 11 abstained. Why did the 11 abstain? I feel they didn't give the man a chance. My numbers might not be correct and if not please let us know the correct numbers. I am just in the ball park. Mr. Tran put himself into a potentially embarrassing position by coming to the meeting and asking for an appeal. 




chachingcherry said:


> What was the reason Mr. Tran was turned down? How did you know he was at the meeting? What is the red flag in and of itself?


I went to the meeting. They don't always allow non members to attend, I was kicked out of one in 2004. Mr. Tran was there. He was voted NO. He was not given an explanation as to why he was denied. Why is there a RED FLAG? Non members are not treated very well at the National. We are treated rudely. A lot of members thought Mr. Tran should not have appealed his case. He was all ready turned down. Because he is a non member he was not seated with his sponsor's. He was sitting in the "non-member" section. 



tamizami said:


> i do not know mr. tran and have never done business with him, but i think it is only fair to point out that mr. tran had both an AKC judge and Joyce Watkins speak very HIGHLY of him at the AMA meeting.


It should be taken into consideration of who his sponsors were and what they had to say about him. It's like they form a collective decision and listen to gossip instead of accepting into the fold a viable member for the AMA. 

Putting on my flame retardant suit.


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## MaryH

Tina, I'm not breathing flames so you don't need your flame retardant suit because of me.  All I want to say is please don't believe everything you hear. I'm not going to comment on what happened at this year's meeting because I wasn't there to see or hear what went on. I attended my first specialty in 2001 and have gone to the annual meeting every year that I've attended. I was never prohibited from attending a meeting. In 2004 non-members were excused from a portion of the meeting because a sensitive confidential matter was to be discussed and it was out of respect for those involved in the matter that that portion of the meeting was closed to the general public. If there were emails being circulated among members this year they certainly did not go to all members. I know that for a fact because I did not receive any sort of communication nor did any of my AMA friends.


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## MaryH

There are good breeders, bad breeders, and every other kind of breeder in between the world over. Being a member of *any* national breed club does not of itself automatically put a breeder into any particular category of good, bad or otherwise. There's been a lot of good exchange in this thread but I thought the topic was a breeder/buyer experience which really has nothing to do with AMA membership.


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## chachingcherry

MaryH said:


> There are good breeders, bad breeders, and every other kind of breeder in between the world over. Being a member of *any* national breed club does not of itself automatically put a breeder into any particular category of good, bad or otherwise. There's been a lot of good exchange in this thread but I thought the topic was a breeder/buyer experience which really has nothing to do with AMA membership.


 After reading through the post, I see that the AMA has been brought up with MR. Tran being turned down membership. Sounds like your saying your a AMA member from your last post. Are you saying people should not talk about the AMA membership? I might be wrong in thinking this from your post, but thats the way it sounds to me. Actually, now that it has been brought up, maybe you could clear some of the past post up in regards to all the post. I would hate to see people turning away from the AMA in regards to membership, when they read these types of posts. I also go to the Nationals, I enjoy watching and learning from all the different breeders. I'm sort of surprised by some of the post and what some comments have been said. The AMA members I meant are all very nice and do not seem clickish, in fact they are helpful and answer question.


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## jmm

Apparently I am completely incorrect....


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## jmm

xxxxxxx


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## Cosy

If you're not in on the decision making I don't really think one can say why or speculate. 
I'm sure Mr. Tran has some nice dogs. His not being part of the AMA Club is just one facet of breeding and exhibiting.


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## Tina

Cosy said:


> If you're not in on the decision making I don't really think one can say why or speculate.
> I'm sure Mr. Tran has some nice dogs. His not being part of the AMA Club is just one facet of breeding and exhibiting.


Very true. But it is *OUR MALTESE* National Club. To site one incidence of rudeness by the AMA was with the woman who was doing the video for the club. She was not invited to the dinners or offered any hospitality that I saw. I sat with her for the entire filming of both days. Just because she was being paid to be there and video isn't a reason to just forget our manners. 
In the judges seminar it was stated by the person giving it, that anyone who was not a judge was not to ask any questions. In around the middle of the seminar an AMA member asked a few questions and was politely
answered. Long time standing member. A non member asked a quick question and was given the riot act about not asking questions. Embarrassed her to death. We were all there to learn. I won't go into the incorrect teaching done by Judge Cunningham. Sometimes you get trapped and cannot remove yourself and your stuck listening to other's conversations you'd rather not hear. 
I am just an observer. I hate being a member of clubs. I am a member of two Kennel Clubs. It isn't any different in those clubs than it is with the AMA. Certain people control the show and that is the way it is. It's just a people thing. As with anything there is politics. You have to decide what you want to put up with. 
I have Maltese because I love them with all my heart. I do want to stay within the standards of what a Maltese is to be. I got into showing and I've never looked back. They are my passion. :wub: It's just my observations. Sometimes to get things changed it needs to be brought out into the open.

The truth isn't "bashing". Members of clubs need to remember they are representing that club and how they present themselves reflects upon that club.


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## MaryH

chachingcherry said:


> After reading through the post, I see that the AMA has been brought up with MR. Tran being turned down membership. Sounds like your saying your a AMA member from your last post. Are you saying people should not talk about the AMA membership? I might be wrong in thinking this from your post, but thats the way it sounds to me. Actually, now that it has been brought up, maybe you could clear some of the past post up in regards to all the post. I would hate to see people turning away from the AMA in regards to membership, when they read these types of posts. I also go to the Nationals, I enjoy watching and learning from all the different breeders. I'm sort of surprised by some of the post and what some comments have been said. The AMA members I meant are all very nice and do not seem clickish, in fact they are helpful and answer question.


As I said in my previous post ...



MaryH said:


> There's been a lot of good exchange in this thread but I thought the topic was a breeder/buyer experience which really has nothing to do with AMA membership.


:back2topic:


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## Cosy

MaryH said:


> As I said in my previous post ...


 

I totally agree. Bashing a club is counter productive. Back to topic!


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## Tina

MaryH said:


> Tina, I'm not breathing flames so you don't need your flame retardant suit because of me.  All I want to say is please don't believe everything you hear. I'm not going to comment on what happened at this year's meeting because I wasn't there to see or hear what went on. I attended my first specialty in 2001 and have gone to the annual meeting every year that I've attended. I was never prohibited from attending a meeting. In 2004 non-members were excused from a portion of the meeting because a sensitive confidential matter was to be discussed and it was out of respect for those involved in the matter that that portion of the meeting was closed to the general public. If there were emails being circulated among members this year they certainly did not go to all members. I know that for a fact because I did not receive any sort of communication nor did any of my AMA friends.


At the 2004 meeting, non members were asked to leave because they were discussing about how members were being turned down from membership even though they had reputable sponsors. This was my first National that I attended. I kept my mouth shut, but I do believe that some non members did not. So, we were asked to leave. I don't know what happened after that. It was a very intense situation.


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## Maltsnme

Tina said:


> In my opinion, the AMA is a very very cliquish club. They turn down so many potential members. In the 1960's when the AMA was formed they had over 600 members from all over the US and other countries. Now, they have around 260 members. You wanted to be a member and you didn't have sponsors they helped you get them and became a member.I can name around 10 people who applied, had sponsors, and were turn down when voted on for them to become members. They were never told why. These people are great people, care about their Maltese and in the betterment of Maltese. Would have been contributing members of the AMA.The rules for a breeder to be a member of the AMA (unspoken) is to breed very little, do not sell very many puppies a year, and become a member before you establish yourself in Maltese.
> I understand with Mr Tran some of the AMA members contacted other members and put the word out that he was to be voted, NO. He has too many Maltese and has them advertised on his web site. He had $40,000 of Maltese posted on his web site. When I looked he had approximately 10 Maltese for sale of different ages and he had what he was asking for them posted on his web site. He isn't asking any more than some of the top tier Maltese breeders are asking for theirs. There were 60 some (approximate) members present at the AMA meeting. The members voted 20 yes, 38 no and 11 abstained. Why did the 11 abstain? I feel they didn't give the man a chance. My numbers might not be correct and if not please let us know the correct numbers. I am just in the ball park. Mr. Tran put himself into a potentially embarrassing position by coming to the meeting and asking for an appeal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I went to the meeting. They don't always allow non members to attend, I was kicked out of one in 2004. Mr. Tran was there. He was voted NO. He was not given an explanation as to why he was denied. Why is there a RED FLAG? *Non members are not treated very well at the National. We are treated rudely.* A lot of members thought Mr. Tran should not have appealed his case. He was all ready turned down. Because he is a non member he was not seated with his sponsor's. He was sitting in the "non-member" section.
> 
> 
> 
> It should be taken into consideration of who his sponsors were and what they had to say about him. It's like they form a collective decision and listen to gossip instead of accepting into the fold a viable member for the AMA.
> 
> Putting on my flame retardant suit.


 
I don't find this generalized statement to be true at all. I have been to two Nationals and am not an AMA member and have been treated as expected. Friendly and hospitably. I'm sorry you feel this way Tina.


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## theboyz

Diamond Maltese....
There was a dog show here last week end, we always go!
5 Maltese entered and 1 was "Diamond Super Luxury" owned by Du Van Tran. I was very anxious to see this dog. Daryl Martin held this and another one back that she was the agent for. I was very disappointed! She only showed "Ch Seabreeze Caribbean Sun Calling".
Here is a question.....if it was your dog there and not shown wouldn't that matter?


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## MaryH

theboyz said:


> Diamond Maltese....
> There was a dog show here last week end, we always go!
> 5 Maltese entered and 1 was "Diamond Super Luxury" owned by Du Van Tran. I was very anxious to see this dog. Daryl Martin held this and another one back that she was the agent for. I was very disappointed! She only showed "Ch Seabreeze Caribbean Sun Calling".
> Here is a question.....if it was your dog there and not shown wouldn't that matter?


Marsha,

I think this thread is straying far off the OP's original intent, which was to discuss a breeder/buyer experience. If you move your question to a new thread maybe in the Dog Show forum I'd be happy to share my thoughts in general about why an entered dog may or may not get shown. But the quick answer to your question is that the Diamond bitch has 9 pts. and still needs her two "major" (3 pts. or more) wins to finish. There were no majors at the shows she was entered in this weekend; actually there were no other class bitches entered, thus no competition. Each time a handler walks in the ring with a client dog the client pays ... generally $75 or more. I would never allow a handler to take my dog in the ring for 0 pts. as it would cost me a handling fee for nothing. There are lots more reasons for a dog not being shown. Start a separate thread if you want because it would be an enlightening topic for all.


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## Tina

MaryH said:


> Marsha,
> 
> I think this thread is straying far off the OP's original intent, which was to discuss a breeder/buyer experience. If you move your question to a new thread maybe in the Dog Show forum I'd be happy to share my thoughts in general about why an entered dog may or may not get shown. But the quick answer to your question is that the Diamond bitch has 9 pts. and still needs her two "major" (3 pts. or more) wins to finish. There were no majors at the shows she was entered in this weekend; actually there were no other class bitches entered, thus no competition. Each time a handler walks in the ring with a client dog the client pays ... generally $75 or more. I would never allow a handler to take my dog in the ring for 0 pts. as it would cost me a handling fee for nothing. There are lots more reasons for a dog not being shown. Start a separate thread if you want because it would be an enlightening topic for all.


:goodpost:


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## theboyz

Thanks Mary.
Yes this thread went from the OP's original question and problem to bashing the AMA. Thought I would try to change the mood and still include Diamond Maltese.....(smile).


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## Cheri

Wow...I learned a LOT from this thread!


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