# Sticky  Champion Lines or Champion Sired



## CloudClan

Watch out for these words. :blink:

They do not imply quality. They are used often to describe dogs that a BYB or Mill breeder has somehow acquired, that "may" have come out of lines where a dedicated breeder worked hard to achieve show wins at some point, but the ones making the claims themselves are often not show breeders. 

I think it is ironic and the _height of hypocrisy_ for breeders who say it is not important to show themselves, or they are too busy to show themselves, to use this language on their websites or their advertisements since it implies that showing means something, and yet they do not feel it is important to their own breeding program. They are saying it because it sounds good, as a marketing technique, but it has no real meaning to them. If it did they would be showing their own dogs. :angry:

Remember as you search for a puppy that the folks here on SM who have bought from ethical, responsible breeders also have Champion sires, often Champion dams, and a full line of red names in their pedigrees, yet the breeder chose to place those dogs in pet homes either because they did not feel that dog could contribute to their breeding program or because they did not have a responsible show home they could trust with this particular dog and their lines and they would rather see such a dog live life cherished as beloved family members to a loving pet home. 

What should you look for instead of Champion Lines or Champion sired? Well a show breeder often does not have to brag about these things, all they have to do is show you the dogs they own who are part of their breeding program who are champions and their relatives who are actively in the ring. Look for breeders who believe that championships matter enough to prove it by actually showing themselves. :thumbsup:


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## casa verde maltese

very good information!


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## bellaratamaltese

Very good post!!


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## Ladysmom

Excellent post, Carina! 

I'm going to ask our mods to make it a Stickie.


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## Sylie

Thanks Carina. Many many years ago, I was impressed with a few champions in a pedigree. In MiMi's pedigree every single dog and bitch for 6 generations is at least champion, some have more titles. I am under the impression that responsible breeders only breed their _finished _dogs. Is that correct...at least for the most part?


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## Zoe's Mom88

Thanks Carina, good info....your a real pro!! :chili:


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## SammieMom

CloudClan said:


> Watch out for these words. :blink:
> 
> They do not imply quality. They are used often to describe dogs that a BYB or Mill breeder has somehow acquired, that "may" have come out of lines where a dedicated breeder worked hard to achieve show wins at some point, but the ones making the claims themselves are often not show breeders.
> 
> I think it is ironic and the _height of hypocrisy_ for breeders who say it is not important to show themselves, or they are too busy to show themselves, to use this language on their websites or their advertisements since it implies that showing means something, and yet they do not feel it is important to their own breeding program. They are saying it because it sounds good, as a marketing technique, but it has no real meaning to them. If it did they would be showing their own dogs. :angry:
> 
> Remember as you search for a puppy that the folks here on SM who have bought from ethical, responsible breeders also have Champion sires, often Champion dams, and a full line of red names in their pedigrees, yet the breeder chose to place those dogs in pet homes either because they did not feel that dog could contribute to their breeding program or because they did not have a responsible show home they could trust with this particular dog and their lines and they would rather see such a dog live life cherished as beloved family members to a loving pet home.
> 
> What should you look for instead of Champion Lines or Champion sired? Well a show breeder often does not have to brag about these things, all they have to do is show you the dogs they own who are part of their breeding program who are champions and their relatives who are actively in the ring. Look for breeders who believe that championships matter enough to prove it by actually showing themselves. :thumbsup:


:thumbsup: Boy are you right Carina! I think it's so unfair to the "true" show breeders who put the time in to achieve that CH and spent the money for testing and breeding only to improve the breed. I been to few shows now, so I see the work involved, and the love for the dogs you all have. 

I experienced this (use of terms) firsthand when I got my Sammie from in home breeder/BYB or what ever you want to call them. They use certain terms that are so attractive to a non educated person like I was. :angry: The reputable show breeders I know never brag, it shows in their lines, and the ring. But they are not breeding primarily to sell puppies.


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## pammy4501

Carina, you have hit the nail on the head!


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## SammieMom

Carina-I love below quote from your post! :thumbsup: So many of us have experienced both sides of the breeder fence (so to speak) and can offer advise. I know so many helped me.

_
"Remember as you search for a puppy that the folks here on SM who have bought from ethical, responsible breeders also have Champion sires, often Champion dams, and a full line of red names in their pedigrees, yet the breeder chose to place those dogs in pet homes either because they did not feel that dog could contribute to their breeding program or because they did not have a responsible show home they could trust with this particular dog and their lines and they would rather see such a dog live life cherished as beloved family members to a loving pet home."_


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## Lacie's Mom

Thank you, Carina. This is a great post. 

And I have to commend the true show breeder that is studying pedigrees, learning about genetics, combining lines, etc. etc. -- all in an effort to BETTER THE BREED (not to sell puppies). That is why truly reputable show breeders often don't have puppies available for pet homes. They have bred quality puppies that are worthy of being shown and of being in their breeding program.


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## CloudClan

Sylie said:


> Thanks Carina. Many many years ago, I was impressed with a few champions in a pedigree. In MiMi's pedigree every single dog and bitch for 6 generations is at least champion, some have more titles. I am under the impression that responsible breeders only breed their _finished _dogs. Is that correct...at least for the most part?


I would say that it is true as you say "for the most part." Most dedicated show folks though will place a dog that doesn't make it for the show ring rather than incorporate them into a breeding program. But, it is always important to remember not to overgeneralize. Some show breeders make choices to breed dogs that do not have their Championships. A true show breeder cares about improving their lines and breeding the best dogs they can more than they care about titles. So if they have a dog that they feel is truly worthy of being bred, but for some reason was not good for the show ring, they may decide to breed that dog and see if the qualities they believed in do come out in the next generation. 

Like I have said in previous posts though, you should look for breeders who finish the majority of their dogs and that includes both sires and dams. I know some people finish just their boys, so that they can use that as a marketing technique and says champion sired, but they never bother to finish the girls because showing does not have true value to them and it is expensive to finish everything in the house. Since boys are bred more the investment in them seems more worth it. Females do not have as many puppies overall. But a true show breeder wants to evaluate both the sire and the dam since genetically they contribute equally to the progeny.


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## SammieMom

Carina,
Thanks for explaining all of that again. Thanks for asking the ? Sylvia. I do rem that conversation we had last year on this very topic. 
xxxx


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## Poppy's mommy

This is a great post! Before I came here I saw a lot of breeders preaching the champion lines thing. It was like that for my yorkie Poppy who passed away. Kobe's breeder did not use his parents championship as a selling point. I will refer friends to this post!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## aprilb

CloudClan said:


> Watch out for these words. :blink:
> 
> They do not imply quality. They are used often to describe dogs that a BYB or Mill breeder has somehow acquired, that "may" have come out of lines where a dedicated breeder worked hard to achieve show wins at some point, but the ones making the claims themselves are often not show breeders.
> 
> I think it is ironic and the _height of hypocrisy_ for breeders who say it is not important to show themselves, or they are too busy to show themselves, to use this language on their websites or their advertisements since it implies that showing means something, and yet they do not feel it is important to their own breeding program. They are saying it because it sounds good, as a marketing technique, but it has no real meaning to them. If it did they would be showing their own dogs. :angry:
> 
> Remember as you search for a puppy that the folks here on SM who have bought from ethical, responsible breeders also have Champion sires, often Champion dams, and a full line of red names in their pedigrees, yet the breeder chose to place those dogs in pet homes either because they did not feel that dog could contribute to their breeding program or because they did not have a responsible show home they could trust with this particular dog and their lines and they would rather see such a dog live life cherished as beloved family members to a loving pet home.
> 
> What should you look for instead of Champion Lines or Champion sired? Well a show breeder often does not have to brag about these things, all they have to do is show you the dogs they own who are part of their breeding program who are champions and their relatives who are actively in the ring. Look for breeders who believe that championships matter enough to prove it by actually showing themselves. :thumbsup:


:goodpost:


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## mysugarbears

CloudClan said:


> Watch out for these words. :blink:
> 
> They do not imply quality. They are used often to describe dogs that a BYB or Mill breeder has somehow acquired, that "may" have come out of lines where a dedicated breeder worked hard to achieve show wins at some point, but the ones making the claims themselves are often not show breeders.
> 
> I think it is ironic and the _height of hypocrisy_ for breeders who say it is not important to show themselves, or they are too busy to show themselves, to use this language on their websites or their advertisements since it implies that showing means something, and yet they do not feel it is important to their own breeding program. They are saying it because it sounds good, as a marketing technique, but it has no real meaning to them. If it did they would be showing their own dogs. :angry:
> 
> Remember as you search for a puppy that the folks here on SM who have bought from ethical, responsible breeders also have Champion sires, often Champion dams, and a full line of red names in their pedigrees, yet the breeder chose to place those dogs in pet homes either because they did not feel that dog could contribute to their breeding program or because they did not have a responsible show home they could trust with this particular dog and their lines and they would rather see such a dog live life cherished as beloved family members to a loving pet home.
> 
> What should you look for instead of Champion Lines or Champion sired? Well a show breeder often does not have to brag about these things, all they have to do is show you the dogs they own who are part of their breeding program who are champions and their relatives who are actively in the ring. Look for breeders who believe that championships matter enough to prove it by actually showing themselves. :thumbsup:



Excellent post!!! :aktion033::aktion033: :aktion033:


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## eiksaa

Great post, Carina!


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## Snowbody

Well said, Carina. :thumbsup:


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## Furbabies mom

I really admire you show breeders! All the hard work, and dedication to the breed is truly amazing! I knew none of this before joining SM. I certainly agree with you Carina.


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## hoaloha

Could not agree more! Very well stated, Carina! If a "breeder" is so against showing, he or she should not even use the phrase "champion lines or champion sired" at all. 

Not all show breeders are reputable/ethical, but to be a reputable/ethical breeder, showing is a necessary and major part of the process.

This thread should be stickied!


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## LuvMyBoys

Thank you Carina! 

This thread has been 'sticky-ed' !


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## CrystalAndZoe

CloudClan said:


> Watch out for these words. :blink:
> 
> They do not imply quality. They are used often to describe dogs that a BYB or Mill breeder has somehow acquired, that "may" have come out of lines where a dedicated breeder worked hard to achieve show wins at some point, but the ones making the claims themselves are often not show breeders.
> 
> I think it is ironic and the _height of hypocrisy_ for breeders who say it is not important to show themselves, or they are too busy to show themselves, to use this language on their websites or their advertisements since it implies that showing means something, and yet they do not feel it is important to their own breeding program. They are saying it because it sounds good, as a marketing technique, but it has no real meaning to them. If it did they would be showing their own dogs. :angry:
> 
> Remember as you search for a puppy that the folks here on SM who have bought from ethical, responsible breeders also have Champion sires, often Champion dams, and a full line of red names in their pedigrees, yet the breeder chose to place those dogs in pet homes either because they did not feel that dog could contribute to their breeding program or because they did not have a responsible show home they could trust with this particular dog and their lines and they would rather see such a dog live life cherished as beloved family members to a loving pet home.
> 
> What should you look for instead of Champion Lines or Champion sired? Well a show breeder often does not have to brag about these things, all they have to do is show you the dogs they own who are part of their breeding program who are champions and their relatives who are actively in the ring. Look for breeders who believe that championships matter enough to prove it by actually showing themselves. :thumbsup:


Again another excellent, EXCELLENT post!


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